Okay, let's start the meeting at 6 30 on April 15th.

Okay.

Um would you want to talk about the comments or that roll call first?

Do we'll call first?

Okay.

Councilmember Connett.

Councilmember Harrison.

Present.

Very great.

Right.

Um for all participants online and in person.

Please state your name for the record prior to your presentation.

If you wish to speak an item not in the agenda, please wait until chair calls for public and non-agenda items.

Only matters within the council's jurisdiction may be addressed, and time limits are at the discretion of the chair.

For in-person speakers, please fill out a speaker card and hand it to the chair.

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Please now star and I to raise and lower your hand.

The clerk will allow you to unmute it as your turn.

Okay, thank you.

And we'll we'll we have a big very full agenda tonight, so we'll limit the public comment or all the comments to two minutes.

Okay.

So let's talk about reports updates.

I think we have Sergeant Edwards here.

Just Deputy Edwards for Richard Franco.

So I'm not responsibility.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Thank you very much, Andrew.

Yes.

It's not.

Oh, there it is.

Public comments.

I'm sorry, looked right past it.

Thank you.

Did you have a public comment?

I'm Andrea Turnbull.

I'm a resident of Sunol for 27, almost 27 years.

And I um I uh published informed Synol.

Um tonight I want to tell a little story.

And the story is about the first company that I went to work for when I finished business school um 40 years ago, and the company's name was Teradine.

And what was remarkable is that the company was about 300 million dollar company at the time, and uh they had a CEO who had still been employee number two when they started the year I was born, 1961.

So 24 years in, they still have the same um CEO.

And then uh by the time I left, that 300 million dollar company was a billion dollar company.

But in between, one of the problems that we were facing is that the electronic industry was in trouble in the United States, and I had gone to work for an electronic industry company.

We're getting our butts kicked by the East um East Eastern Asians who were out performing us in quality.

Well, this guy decided that he was the chief quality officer, making himself the CEO in charge of quality, and it literally changed the way that we worked.

We got competitive, we were able to deliver uh test systems around the world that cost about a million dollars apiece, and Intel told us that the payback on that test rule was 25 days because it tested the IBM PC chips.

But what was remarkable was that he used to run around and say some magic words, and I hope you'll say them often tonight.

What's the benefit?

Every time that we go through an agenda item today or we talk, I'm gonna encourage you to ask what's the benefit.

He did it so well that our company, that company is now a three billion dollar company long after his passing.

Thank you for your respect and intention.

Are there any other public comments?

Thank you.

Okay.

Then we'll go to the regular calendar, item one a law enforcement monthly report.

And we have Deputy Edwards here subbing for Richard Franco, who is replacing Sergeant Petrini just retired last week since it's how hard felt goodbyes.

He's already looking younger a week later.

So a couple days ago.

My name is Deputy I works at the sheriff's office for about 13, 14 years.

Maths a little off.

And I just came out here to the valley station in January.

So I'm sorry, learn the people, learn the areas, and uh and go from there.

Uh, from what I gather, we go over a couple of the uh the key um uh law board services, traffic stops, citations, um, control checks, business checks, and calls for service.

Uh little a little light this uh month compared to last.

Let's look at the numbers there on the uh uh your handout and uh our stuff.

And I don't know if I pulled them correctly, so I might be off there.

Uh we did have a couple um uh vacations back to back in schools that took us down a minimum mapping, so we go we run a little light on that those days.

We did, however, uh conduct uh I think it was 33 traffic uh traffic citations, and uh I'm trying to get to the bottom of that because I know that our motor guys like to sit down on uh uh Palmer's Road in the Canyon, and I think that might pop up on a different area than what when I ran the stats for this area for Signal.

I think it might populate in either Union City or Fremont, so it doesn't show because the numbers were too light for us.

We had 16 calls for service and we conducted uh 78 business checks uh in the area and patrol checks combined.

The uh we saw an uptick in stolen vehicles being dumped down on Palmer's Road.

It's kind of why we're sitting down there.

Uh I took two three weeks ago, and there was another two dumps uh last week uh when I was on vacation.

It looks like um uh criminals are conducting their activity in the cities, found a little spot to shoot up off a mission up uh the canyon and a nice dark uh not well lit area that not too many people are traveling at night to uh either strip cars or just dump them after they they go joy writing.

Uh we did have out on uh Sheridan and got the cross country area on the other side by snow superstop particular out.

Uh they've been hit four times, four or five times with uh vehicle break-ins and uh petty thefts.

Um the uh there's uh uh two people identified so far.

There might be more, and we're we're pursuing that through our investigation.

And the um they're just coming up on the ranch, completely do not look like uh they are ranch people, and they start door checking cars.

They've walked into the businesses and in and uh and uh stolen items, so laptops and uh computers, but other than that, uh nothing else to report, and that's well.

I'm continuing to get calls about the shooting range over there at the um agricultural area across the Niles Canyon.

The nursery right here.

Yeah, okay, yeah.

Uh I've had a couple of those calls.

They sometimes call it in, say, hey, we're doing target practice.

Um, and uh that lets us know to tell you guys, yeah, they they schedule target practice or let us know, but they don't have to.

It's just like a common courtesy.

Um, from everything we've done in our our are snooping around, they're away from the roadways, they're on their own property, they're not shooting in an unsafe direction.

And uh it's uh it's all uh within the means of the law.

So I got you, thank you.

All right, guys.

Thank you for coming on short notice.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Um said that um she's unable to make it today, but um, she ran the report, and she's not sure she's got the right report, same comment as he had, but she had 25 calls for service, and she doesn't have any more detail than that.

So she'll bring it in for two months next next month.

Okay, so we've gone through um I think and we're down at 2A fire safety work group, Rosemary Chang, Denise are unable to make the meeting.

Both said that they were unable, not available.

And then um, I got a call also from Jim O'Laughlin for 2B Tree Advisory Group.

He's not feeling well, also something going around.

Um, but he is applying for two grants, one with the resource conservation district and one with the Union Pacific or Union Pacific Lake property.

And I assured him that we would cooperate with him and support the grants for that.

You know, and the next one is the downtown revitalization work group.

I don't know if you want to talk now or wait till your item later on.

Oh, it's an item for it.

I can yeah, we can do that.

There it is.

Okay, perfect.

Okay.

Perfect.

So we're now on item three, council staff comments.

Um, I wanted to make sure everybody was aware that PGU is going to have an open house on May 13th.

It's going to be in this room.

They are going to have posters and experts here to talk about their efforts to underground electrical distribution lines from address 1313 kill care up the hill and then harden all the lines from 1313 down.

I think that's like 2.2 miles down to the lower part of Kill Care.

So I recommend anybody who lives on Kill Care should come to that and talk to the people from PGE.

Okay.

Some of the other attachments, we have a memo from the county administrator.

Um it's a reminder for people to have all of their items to the chair.

Um more than eight days before it, what we've been asking for is eight days.

They said a week, but it needs to be eight days to the chair, so that it can be included in the agenda.

And then also some information about the minutes, the minutes are summary action minutes only.

Um I know people have complained the minutes didn't accurate reflect the meeting.

Um, but they're saying that they will not reflect any actions taken outside the scheduled meeting, which is true.

Um, would not be verbatim, would not capture dialogue, and um try the recordings of the meetings are going to be available online, and transcripts will be available upon request.

So if you want to get a transcript, you can get a transcript.

And then um, I'm not sure why CDA um sent out the letter in um 3B.

Are you in the son there?

Do you need help?

Yeah, the acronym.

Oh CDA community development organization.

Thank you.

Um, she should be part of that is the planning department okay, and that um it just repeats what's already in the ordinance that we provide our guidance to the board of supervisors.

So I just wanted to make sure you're all aware of that.

Okay.

Did you want to comment on that?

I know you said you wanted to comment on all of them.

Is that one of us?

I did come on up to the podium, please.

Yeah, sure.

On these two county documents, I ask what's the benefit, Connie.

What's the benefit?

And um, it seems like is there a message that we need to do something different in Synol?

Or is they are we doing things the right way in Synol?

Is the SEAC operating in the way that county planning wants us to operate?

I don't understand why these memos had to be written or what the benefit of them is.

I I wish that it were more clear.

Um, and I did call and follow up on each of them to try and understand it.

I don't know, Sean.

Do you have anything to add to that?

No.

Um I I have the feeling after talking to the authors of the memos that there have been some discussions at other advisory councils and some misunderstanding at other advisory councils, and so they sent it out to everybody.

Okay, so we don't necessarily have a problem here.

The authors indicated that we do not.

Okay.

Okay.

Um, go on to uh are there any other comments, staff comments?

Sean, I was I bet the lucky waste pickup day was successful.

Yeah, I was just gonna report on that if I may.

Sure.

So as many of you uh may know because I saw you out there.

Um you participated in the bulky waste cleanup that took place this past Saturday.

Um it wasn't the best in terms of volume that we've seen here in Synol, but towards the end of the time period, it got really jam-packed.

I think people were a little worried to see if we were going to be out there because of the weather, and just for the record, if we do this again, that event happens rain or shine because we can't call off the bins, we can't call off the staff.

So in the future, if there's potential for rain or storm, we're still gonna be out there collecting your garbage debris and everything else that you want to drop off to us.

I did note that we had a historically low turnout in uh prescription drugs, and I'll wait until we get the report back from our friends at the garbage company to tell us what the weight was this year versus last year.

Um, but I think it was also a little bit low.

And maybe it had to do with weather, maybe it has to do with we've been doing this for a number of years, and people's properties are getting cleaner and cleaner and cleaner as we move forward.

Um, the good thing about it not being busy for two hours or so.

A lot of people got to make multiple runs, um, which was good.

They were quite thrilled that they got to continue to come back, not have to wait in line, just zoom right through, go home, load up and zoom right through.

So that worked out for for some residents.

So it was good all in all.

Um it was a good event.

I just would like to know why it was not as well attended.

And again, could be rain, could be that people's property are getting clean, and that's good.

We'll still do it again.

We'll do it next year, and and we'll judge based on next year's performance if we need to move forward.

But if it's because that people's properties are getting good, then job well done for having the event.

So I think the part of the problem was it's raining the days before the cleanup or the before the drop-off.

Right.

So that made it difficult to load your trucks and be correct for it.

Is that what happened to you too?

Well, yeah, yeah, we foot, but I'd been down there about 10 times.

So no, I think just the weather.

I love it.

That's uh it's a great place to get rid of all the stuff.

Thank you.

Okay.

Sounds like we're okay with Steph and Council Comments.

Okay.

Um, go on to 4A, review the on-site wastewater treatment system downtown project.

And this is the fifth update.

I think I I volunteered to do the first couple of slides.

Um, and then Lilia Walsh will do the remaining middle part, and then I'm gonna do the final two again.

Yeah, and this presentation's on potential funding.

I'll go moving it in.

Uh I think so.

Thank you.

Who would like a copy of the handout?

Oh did you not hand out?

There were thank you.

Well, I can go anymore.

A little bit of slide.

Um, so what I what I have on the cover sheet that you all have and what's up on the screen, is um the result of our conversation with the Niles Canyon Railway specific association operating at the town can you roadway.

And um we've talked about having a restroom at the train station, and they say that they don't want a restroom to look like the train station from 1869 because they didn't have restrooms in 1869 with the train station.

So um, and what they would prefer is it looked like the Verona station, which was uh Hearst's Phoebe Apperson Hearst's little private train station that was on Synol Pleasanton Road at the Verona Street.

And so I sort of drew one there and I took my scissors and cut and pasted it in there, so just to see what it looks like because that's the location that they would like to have it.

Um so this phase two study.

Go ahead and the next slide.

The phase two study is the follow-on from phase one, where we looked at greater Synol.

And so this is just focused on the downtown area.

Um I wanted there were some people were saying that they weren't aware of the study, they were aware of that uh there anything was being done on this, and we weren't hearing the details of it.

So I wanted to go through what we had done as a public meeting to talk about this information.

We um it was talked about as a proposed project, the phase Tuesday, which is the one we're finishing up now.

Um, back in 2024, April 17th was the first time we read through the proposal and the contract, May 15th, 2024 was the second reading.

So we've been working on this for about two years.

The sport of supervisors approved funding the contract at the end of 2024 in December 2024.

Next page.

So we've had four different um presentations on this as the fifth presentation on this um this feasibility study.

The first one was we defined what the possible service area was, and we met on that.

Um we talked about in June 2025.

We talked about the results from the field studies, where they actually um looked at the bleach field and the locations and the drainage field and the proximity to the creek and all of that.

They um in November last year we talked about different analysis uh alternatives.

We went through what the alternatives were, and then just February, just a couple of months ago, we went through the costs depending on the scale of it and the size and what treatment system we chose.

So this is our final meeting on it.

This is considered what we call memo five, the fifth one.

Um in addition to all of the um meetings here and discussions here.

I went door to door to all of the um residents and businesses that were home, all the ones that I could get into past gates and things like that.

Um, in May and June of last year, and I talked to the property owners, then property owners, including homes and businesses, except for some people I couldn't get like Jeff over here who owns the galleria sent him a letter.

Yeah, sent it to a couple other um downtown property owners too, or I left it on their doornote.

But good.

Um the other concern that people have said, and I just wanted to put it in writing here was that only the prof only property owners who desire to connect with part of the project.

Nobody's going to be forced to be connecting to the system.

And it and our goal is to be a benefit for participants.

Our goal is to be a benefit to the train station.

Benefit to the post office, a benefit to the old we should this will stop antiques building.

Um the other thing that um I think we need to keep in mind is that the project can be implemented as phased implementation, so we can start out small, and we can expand from there depending on what we choose to do.

So we had um seven alternatives that we explored, and what feedback that we're getting is most people are most interested in alternative three and alternative four, which is limited right now to restrooms at the train station and of the park.

Well, I think um Lily, you have the rest of the slides.

All right.

So today we're going to talk about memo five, which covers governance and funding pathways that can be pursued for these community systems.

Um I'll send a little bit more attention to the government and funding that would be considered for alternative four, since that's one of the ones that there's the most interest in.

Um, this is the last memo of the study.

I'll next be kind of wrapping all of the work we've done so far into one final report with some you know, kind of minor revisions and adding a summary to that, and that'll be available in the next few months.

And then we just wanted to emphasize that we presented these alternatives to the community, but no decisions have been made at this point, and the next steps are up to the SONOL community to decide what is right for you all as to me going forward.

Uh next slide, please.

So this is a high-level overview of what funding and governance looks like for a community wastewater project in an unincorporated area like SNOL.

Um, there's kind of the funding component, and then there's the governance.

And so there has to be some type of entity that takes ownership and manages whatever can be built, either if it's very cool or it's as wide as the whole community.

And that could be an existing entity like a nearby water sewer district if they agreed to take on that responsibility.

It could also be a new form district, which could either be dependent on the county structure or uh and the board of supervisors, or with a locally elected board.

So it's kind of an independent and a dependent version of those um newly formed systems, and so that's kind of the governance who would be in charge of the program.

Um, in terms of funding, there's capital investments, which is the cost to actually build the infrastructure that's needed, and then there's the ongoing maintenance and monitoring, or sorry, operations and monitoring um responsibilities as well.

So it's kind of two different buckets of costs for the capital improvements.

There's low interest loan programs, which we describe in memo five in more detail, the two biggest ones would be the clean water state revolving fund and the UF USDA rural utilities services program.

There's also sale of bonds, grants, and an assessment district, um, which we'll go into a little bit more detail about as well.

Um that would be paid back over time.

And then there's the like ongoing costs are usually coming out of user fees, um, typically collected on like an annual property tax bill.

Um so those are kind of the very high level for any of the alternatives we've explored, they would have these components.

Um next slide, please.

And you know, there's sort of a variety of structures depending on what the community chooses, but if it was an on-site wastewater management district, that would be initiated by the petition um or resolution of the board of supervisors, and there's also an opportunity for a protest.

So if there's a protest hearing and there's more than 35% protests, then there needs to be a vote.

And if more than 50% protest, then there's no suit of that formation of the zone from there.

And this is most applicable to alternative two, which we presented in our last presentation, and I'll summarize all those alternatives again in a moment here.

This is probably hard to see on this on the slide, but for those of you that have it in front of you, this is a flow chart for the formation of that type of on-site wastewater management district.

So you can see the kind of petition from an enforcement visors, and then the process by which that would get approved, public hearing, opportunity for protest, and then abandonment or finalization of that structure.

All right, next slide.

Another key possible financing path would be an assessment district.

This requires more than 50% to vote for it to form it.

And the votes would be weighted based on the share of use.

So if it's like a business that has very high use or high production of wastewater, they would have a higher weighted vote than a residential parcel.

If the parcel falls within the assessment district, but wouldn't benefit from it.

This is an example of I have recently installed a system that's up to code.

I have no need for anymore being part of the community system, but I'm technically within the bounds of the district.

My share of use would be zero because I'm not going to benefit from the system.

And so I would also have no cost to the but you might you might fall within its parameter, but not the uh, yeah, we wouldn't be forced to pay the cost.

Um so just to review for anyone who wasn't at the last presentation.

I wanted to summarize again what the alternatives we considered were.

Um alternatives one and two continue with the use of the on-site at everybody's property, so everybody continues to use their own septic systems.

They don't add any new physical infrastructure.

So alternative one is uh no change, things continue as they are.

Alternative two is the there's an on-site wastewater management district that's formed, and that helps all the people within the district to sort of make improvements to their existing septic systems that help them come more into compliance.

And then alternatives three and four, as Connie mentioned, those are the ones that provide restrooms in the downtown area.

So two different public restrooms, one in Depot Gardens and one in Sinnol Train Depot.

Um, and those could just be an endpoint, like you put those restrooms in that serves the community needs, but there's no additional steps beyond that towards a wider community system, or they could be a first step towards a larger system.

Alternatives five, six, and seven are the more comprehensive community-wide wastewater system, and they would include adding collection lines along the roadways and collecting uh wastewater from the properties in the downtown area for centralized treatment and disposal.

Um, so yeah, we won't get into more detail on that today, but just to review that uh last presentation for those who weren't there.

Um, okay, alternatives three and four, again, these are the ones that we're kind of considering the most seriously at this time.

Um they would both provide those public restrooms.

Alternative four is a little bit more robust than alternative three, it would involve rebuilding the existing leash fields that it would have more capacity and it would allow parking on top of it.

So alternative three, a little cheaper, a lot cheaper, but no parking and no additional capacity.

Alternative four, additional capacity and parking.

And that additional capacity could be used however the community decided.

Um, we had proposed there could be a pump and haul system for property owners who don't have a system in place that would allow them to grow their business.

They could then pay a fee to pump some of their wastewater into the community system.

Um, it could also be other direct connections could be explored in businesses that are or homes that are very proximal to the downtown area could potentially use that additional capacity as well.

Um that being said, the full capacity of alternative four wouldn't be reached if treatment was added in a community community-wide system.

So we'll get a lot of benefits from the interim step and then additional level of benefit from once you put the whole treatment system in.

Um right.

Next slide shows kind of just where that existing leach field is that would be modified and alternative core, and the collection line that would be um updated to collect wastewater to bring it over the existing creek crossing and to the uh leach field for dispersal.

All right, next slide, please.

Um, this slide summarizes the cost for alternative four.

Um there's the restroom and parking facilities, the wastewater infrastructure costs, and then that's the total facilities cost, and then every year there'd be some maintenance of those bathrooms and of the leech field as well.

Um total facility costs is one million six hundred and fifty-nine thousand.

Uh, the annual OM 44,000 estimated per year.

Um sorry.

O and M.

Yeah, sorry, that's the operations and maintenance uh costs.

Yeah, sorry, that's the operations and maintenance uh costs, and so that would mean like uh someone servicing the bathroom, someone repairing anything that gets damaged, uh, monitoring of the leach field to make sure that there's not any issues arising uh with the added use that we would expect in these alternatives, um and stocking the bathrooms, etc.

Uh next slide, please.

So this is the funding and governance that we would expect to be likely if you pursue alternative four.

It would probably be a county dependent special district that you would form um to manage this uh either the new restrooms and the potential pump and hall program.

Um so that would be under the BOS, uh, or it could be an on-site wastewater disposal zone that you form as well.

The capital funding, the funding for the built infrastructure would probably come from those grants, uh grants, loans, and bonds, assessment districts, and any support you could get from businesses as well.

Uh Connie discussed talking to the main station of doing that kind of uh support as well.

Operations and maintenance would probably come from proportional use fees based on how much uh capacity a different entity like a business or a uh residence would use, and they would pay proportional to that.

If they're pumping a lot of weight water into the system, they'd pay a larger fee than if they were doing a small amount.

Um, and so those fees would be contributing to the annual maintenance cost.

All right, this is back to you, Connie.

And we have talked, um, Benjamin and I did meet with a Pacific Locomotive Association and talked to them about it, and they are interested in um contributing to the cost of building the restrooms and the putting in the pipe and everything.

Um and also I think they can contribute by in-kind labor too.

They can do some of the trenching and things like that.

Um to get to get it over to the creek crossing.

Um, as I mentioned earlier, they they really desire to preserve the historic integrity of the station, and so that's why we're um the photos that Lilia showed you were the stock restrooms that they bring in on the back of a truck and they crane it into place.

And um, we haven't really explored how flexible they are with that, but we do want to respond to the um train people's needs and their request.

Um, as I said, they want it to look like the Verona station, which is a Mediterranean style, and then since the Sonol land is having to redo their roof, they're gonna have to take all those clay tiles off, and and they will have to probably replace them with other clay tiles.

And so they are also interested in if we could design it into a Mediterranean style, that some of those clay tiles could be moved and saved from the roof here and put onto the restroom, and they would like a brass flaque showing that we've stayed preserved some of those 1926 tiles.

Um so let's go to the next one.

So I'd like to leave this slide up so we can have some discussion on the with the council members and the audience about it.

Um alternative three, the difference between alternative three in one room more details than I do on this, but for me, the differences the paving and the parking and reconstructing the leech field so that we can park on it.

So the question is it how important is the parking?

How important is that we have more parking downtown?

And I guess the other pieces the pump and haul or the additional capacity that you would get from rebuilding the leech field that could be used by the community in whatever way, so either the pump and haul or connecting more uh properties directly.

That's true.

That's true.

Um, for example, the post office could be connected to it.

Um the businesses on Main Street could be connected to it.

Um probably the ones on Foothill.

Um, one of the questions that came up last time was, or by some people were um do I have to have a pump on my property, or will it be gravity?

And as I recall properties on the western side of Foothill Road will all require pumps.

There's one property on Main Street that requires a pump, and only three on Bond Street that will require a pump.

If if we decide if those people all decide to connect to it, the rest would be crafty feed into the system.

So you know what do we want to do next?

I have a question.

Yeah, um paving and striping.

How many parking spaces are we talking about?

I don't know.

Don't remember the exact, I think it was around 30.

I think, but I'd have to, I could also find that out for you and follow up.

But I think that was around what I was looking at.

When we first installed that leach field, we didn't know we couldn't drive on it.

And so we were parking on it.

I don't know if you remember that.

But um yeah, 30 sounds about right, maybe 40 cars, a bunch of them.

Yeah.

One thing I'd like to make sure that we look at, I think it's you know, it's it's it's a good idea.

A lot of people expeditoms, and so we've kind of gone through it.

But one thing in doing things like this myself and what I do for work, you know, these numbers, you know, they'll probably be a little higher, but we as we learn there's grants and there are different things like that.

But what I want to make sure we have a rock solid plan on is the maintenance.

Um, because whatever we say that's gonna be, we're gonna sign up for this, and people are gonna use them.

And how often are they gonna get clean?

If we sign up for maintenance three days a week, well, what happens on the fourth day and now it's not gonna be clean for two days, and somebody goes in there and you know has an accident and pass them through and then they leave.

Um, and now it's you know, we we're not a you know, we don't have city people to come through and clean it.

Um, and you know, it I did some quick math there, it's 3600 to 4,000 a month is what based on the numbers.

We know those probably be higher than that um based on you know, I think when we first did this, we we anticipated three days a week janitorial service.

But what's the plan again?

If somebody goes in there and has an accident on an off day, who cleans it?

We don't know who that is, you know.

And we talked the train station about that, but that's something that we'd be looking for feedback and looking for ideas on.

Um, because it to have these bathrooms, we need to make sure they're clean and they're sanitary daily.

And what does that look like?

So yeah, and the city of Pleasanton, well, and the county has bathrooms too, and county parks and city parks.

But they have city staff too, though, to go down there.

They don't on the call on oh um not to clean, but they they contract out the cleaning.

Yeah, yeah, but yeah.

Yeah, and they just they're lock up.

Yeah, yeah, there's it's a problem between cleaning and they get locked.

I'll say that I guess too, because that's been a big question that everybody's had is what do we do at night?

What and that there's there's solar powered box dead bolts that you can put on timers.

And so at night at a certain time they lock and they can't there's people can't go in there at night and have a party.

Um they'll unlock in the morning and they'll lock all automated.

So that was been a concern for a lot of people.

So just anybody online or hearing that we kind of talked about that, but um again, not to repeat myself, but my my concern that I want to make sure we have a bulletproof plan on is how we keep that those them pristine because you put a bathroom there, people are gonna use them.

And they're passing through if they're out of town.

I'm not I'm not I'm not confident that they're gonna you know citizens spray and wipe it down when they're done.

Yeah, so uh I got a question about insurance.

Um, since we've had a bathroom get blown up, you know, um on a Halloween night.

Is there insurance built into this plan?

Well, we we kind of include it as a general percentage, right?

But it's not specific to ensuring a bathroom, like how much is per bathroom, it's more of a general percentage of the fees.

Um so you know, there's that or we have all the traffic, let's say the train of lights, right?

And people are parking, someone backs into it.

Oh, I didn't know that bathroom.

Oh, I've been coming for years, I forgot it was there, and they crunch in the wall.

You know, that could be that's gonna be on us if there's not insurance.

They're all solvable, aren't they?

They're all solvable things.

We we'd have to put you know, metal pylons out in front or something like that, but we should think through all these things to make sure it's it's bullet liability too.

So the county has the liability.

County has a liability.

No, the train station would have the liability for the train one.

Trains people they own the they are the lease, the licensees on the property.

Okay.

So uh yeah, so one critical thing to determine is who is the owner of restrooms.

And we we weren't really sure.

And yeah, um, you know, from a wastewater standpoint.

If there's a wastewater facility, that's you know, they're the entity, and would it be the same entity that we're talking about on-site wastewater disposal zone, also uh ownership of the restrooms, or is it the county, or is there some other uh uh entity?

But that yeah, that's the legal determination.

What the conversation with the railroad, they said that anything that's built on the county land is property in the county.

Is that the way you understand it?

Yeah, this would lease it to I my only disagreement on that as an insurance guy is the bureau leasing that land, what's on that land becomes your care custody and control, and and they would be somewhat liable because they're the ones that are maintaining it.

So and they're happy to get rid of their porta potties too.

They're five porta bodies and have a real restroom between the county uh show and maybe these guys just got to work that out.

I mean we're really talking about details here.

So it sounds like in general you you're supportive of it.

Yeah.

I'm I I have a question.

Uh, if you go for alternative four and we redo the uh leech fields out there, and then we uh blacktop all over it.

That's obviously is it gonna be a maintenance issue later?

Is that gonna be an issue getting at these things?

So it wouldn't be black topped, it would probably be graded and graveled and marked like spots marked out and uh and cement bumpers put in.

Okay, it's accessible in terms of P gravel and upbeat level of findings or something.

Okay, are these engineered?

So you could do three and then add four later, or is it one or the other?

Because it's I would say you should make the call between three and four.

They're kind of uh a more extensive and a more simple version of the same thing.

Um three is like the most minimal way you can get the public bathrooms, um, where you're you're just you're adding the bathrooms and you're connecting them to the leach field.

Four, you're allowing parking, you're allowing more capacity short term that can be used to the pump and hall, and then you're allowing more capacity long term that could be used in a community system.

Yep.

What I'm trying to say is can if we decided we talked to you know, Sonolia and the community said they want they want they like four, but they don't want to go all the way there yet.

Could we do three and then add four later?

Yeah, so probably so the the one com I think the main complication would be that four includes basically trenching the existing leech leech fields and basically raising the the the level of gravel, the amount of gravel and re-plumbing them.

Uh if you did three, you're basically just connecting up to the existing pipes and the existing, so you'd have to come back and disrupt that operation.

So you'd probably be limited, you could do three, but in a limited version where you could say do half if if you're going to to implement four later, you could turn off half of the leech field, redo it, and then so you could phase the the work in in moving to four, but you couldn't use all of the capacity and expect to be able to also later make changes to the leech field while it's operating at full capacity.

So it may end up being that if you went for a community-wide system, you would as part of that do the re-excavation and rebuilding of the leach field at that time rather than doing three different stages.

That's what I'm kind of getting at.

Is I know if we do decide to go three, but then later we decide to go more, we could actually be costing ourselves money because we had to do the same work twice.

I think you would lose some efficiency if it was broken into three stages, but it's possible.

Uh it would be probably more efficient to do it in two tops.

But you know, pending other considerations, it might make sense to break it down further.

And I would agree with what you said about the maintenance costs.

I mean, I did a very basic sort of first pass at that, but it wasn't particularly localized.

So if you have a sense of who does the who does the maintenance at the local bathrooms, what does that actually cost?

Getting deeper into that, I think would be and we had a note here uh that was sent to me um from Vina uh that they had talked about maybe the Synol town Center, the Casabella employees may be doing it.

Um so those are all just kind of fun little details that we can't you're right though, the contract somebody out where Sinolians we all know we get dinged on travel all the time, get anybody to come out here, um, even on you know, DoorDash, it's it's uh it's it's pretty expensive just on travel.

So I think that's if we contract somebody to clean bathrooms if Casabella or town center is not available to we need somebody to come out.

Um, but those are all things we just need to look at, make sure we know we're signing up for.

So I've got the for the board here a historical question.

You know, right now, you know, you've got the the private businesses there like Casa and Bosco's and so forth, and they've got toilets inside um for all of their patrons.

What is the the public events that are taking place in this area that is going to utilize this bathroom?

There's not a park right there.

That well is it the train station?

I mean so that would be utilizing this, and then it's the train station that has you say five, five four or five porta bodies now.

Okay.

Years and years and years.

Since the mid eighties.

Yeah.

So what brought about the request for the bathrooms?

What how did all this conversation start X years ago?

Where'd the requests originate?

Um, because when people are using the bathroom or using the Sunol Depot Gardens, they would like access to train porta bodies are behind a locked fence.

So it's only accessible when the train's operating.

Okay.

There's also some businesses downtown that don't have any bathrooms for patrons, like the barbershop and something and the store and stuff.

They're currently being directed to Bosco's as an interim solution, but there's often requests for bathrooms that in downtown the area that can't quite be met.

Um also there's barbecues, some memorials, and then hopes for larger public events in the park in the future.

Well, there's also bicyclists.

Yeah, lots and lots of bicycles on the weekend, bicycle races.

Yeah.

So right now we don't have a toilet bathroom.

We're we're basically welcoming public defecation in bushes and so forth.

I mean, that's that's what we're suffering from.

So that's part of eliminating that issue versus just creating you know, uh, you know, a um a convenience as well.

Okay.

No, what's that?

Well, it's a oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Big a trench.

Yeah, but I'm what I'm trying to draw attention to is that we do have a problem.

Yes, it that has to be resolved one way or another.

It's it's separate from are we creating an improvement?

But what are we gonna do to eliminate a problem?

Yeah, and um, for example, Bosco's or the access to the bathrooms has not been available this week or last week because the coffee shop is not open, or the coffee truck is not open, and Boscos is only our and the country store is only open a couple of hours a day.

So for the most part, most restrooms are not available, and then also the Casabella business is impacted negatively when people just come off the street and interrupt a wedding and want to use the restrooms, and that's been happening.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

At the end of Foothill, right?

There's the four corners and then the end of foothill.

The end of foothill, right?

Is the train station gonna make a um considerable contribution on a monthly basis?

Do we have any idea?

They will they they have said whatever they're paying now, they'll just keep paying it, and they also offered to um buy into it too.

We haven't pinned them down to a price yet, but yes, they're very much interested in participating in the cost.

Okay, yeah, because they're a major benefit benefactor.

Yeah, I don't know if this has come up too, but I know that they they currently pay a fee from their on-train bathrooms being pumped and hauled elsewhere, and so if there's bathrooms on site that could potentially reduce some of that volume as well.

Um, which I don't know if you got into it with them about that.

I wonder if that's another possible thing to consider.

Yep.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

And we also want the train to stay in Sean.

Sure.

Um Niles Niles, the city of Niles has offered to do a number of things for them to try and get them to move to more in denials and lessons and all.

Okay.

Um, any public comments, Andrew?

I just wonder if anybody wants to go before me.

Okay, Bob?

Yes.

I apologize.

Bob Frillman, uh, Sennol on Foothill Road.

Uh I apologize if some of these questions have been asked before, but the the first thing I wrote down on after listening to the young lady talk about the possible funding sources for the capital improvements.

Who pays?

Uh does all this come from just the users?

So that means that your door-to-door knocking, you're gonna ask I don't know how many people you found that were willing to sign up 50, 20, 30, 100.

Hi, I need 80,000 for the 800,000 dollar capital improvement to build all this stuff.

Uh the other question, I'm sorry.

The other question I've got is the uh the restrooms.

I understand that we're talking about restrooms in the park that the community actually uses and has the benefit of.

Will the bathrooms that are over on the lease land from the hobby train will those be available for public use?

Now we say we we're shaking our head, but that yellow building is supposed to be a community center.

We should be having this meeting in that building right now.

That was the money that brought it over there from under the bridge, and that was the promise that was made when it went there.

And that was the promise that was made when it went there.

So I'm not a big fan of the train, I'll be honest with you.

In fact, the uh I personally think that they hold the whole town of Sinnol in contempt.

It's a an organization that when they came here, nobody wanted them.

And they promised this town of Synol that they would do their train of lights every year.

Well, within a few years that became inconvenient.

And I think it was one of your early meetings, Connie during COVID, when the president at the time, when I brought it up, said, What do you got in writing?

Wow.

We don't have anything in riding.

Didn't they put that in the lease?

So that would be my concern that that they're gonna tell you that we can use those bathrooms, and then when that becomes inconvenient, what do we got in writing?

Or no, you can't.

So anyway, thank you.

I think you're right that we need to make sure we get it very clear what the agreement is.

I'm gonna advocate for alternative four.

Um Synol has had a problem for years with parking.

Um and to Ian's point where he's asking, what's the benefit?

Um by having more parking, we can have more events, we can support more businesses.

We have infrastructure today to have more businesses in the big building uh that Michael Miller owns.

Uh hopefully tonight we're gonna have more efficient way of using the building on Main Street that's owned by my friend the roofer.

Uh, I think there's opportunity for Synol to be open for business.

Now, some people in our little town might be concerned about that, but let's remember that 922 people live in an area nearly twice the size of San Francisco in any part ever anywhere else in the world, I would expect that to just implode.

But the reason why Sennol exists is because the people of Alameda County want Synol to exist.

Why?

They come to Sinnol, they enjoy Synol, they ride their bikes in Sennol, they use their business in Synol.

Uh the cut, even if they're coming to the little businesses, which when we have parking, we'll draw more businesses, and when we have parking, we'll be back to our community events again.

And so I would ask for us to go for it and go for alternative four, look for all the reasons why we that's our our uh North Star, and then we can uh if we have to punt later, that let's do that.

But I would rather go for the North Star.

Um and uh, you know, to your point with the train, there are two million dollar a year top line they uh they get about a million dollars on at the end, and that's in their uh public uh they're a nonprofit.

Uh they have money.

Uh they do Sinnol business guild may not have that much, but please uh number four in support of having number four.

I'll relate to you that I I was at a meeting with a comp um a restaurant that wanted to move into the cafe, and it was with a couple of people, and the potential the interested party just sat down and said, Well, we've got 25 parking places here, we have 150 here, we have 75 here, and this business uses this many, this business uses that many.

There's not enough parking for us to move our business to downtown.

Because I was my heart just sank as I was listening to them have that conversation.

Um so we do need more parking.

Definitely if we're gonna attract more activity in downtown or more food establishments in downtown.

Anyone have their handout?

Another question about parking.

Uh-huh.

Um, do how many spaces are over there at the train station?

Anyone know?

Uh I don't remember.

I don't remember now.

Is there we have counted them up?

Is the is the um is it typically full on the weekend or given day?

The parking lot.

Um the train is going.

Yeah.

When the train is going, it's full.

Yeah, or there's a wedding.

Yes, and they yeah, they yeah, they let the they let the wedding people park from so if the train station we'll say there is no wedding, just the train going on.

Does the parking lot fill up just from train usage?

Yes.

Okay, so where I'm going with that is is there is a possibility that we're gonna end up with a parking lot that just ends up getting filled every day with just more people riding on the train, and there's still no more parking for businesses.

65 to 70, I'm hearing from the you know gallery.

Okay, how many how many parking spots I can't hear you but 65 to 70 parking spots at the train station to answer the question.

And then we park across the street on the Caltrans property, right?

And downtown and on foothill and on Kill Care.

So um during the I don't know how many cars there are on the train during the rest of the year.

At the end of the day, are we maybe just building a parking lot, a bigger parking lot for the train station?

I think we are on the train of lights nights, yes, but I don't think the rest of the year.

Okay.

The rest of the year it's so it would be open and available for these other events and other things going on.

Okay.

Yeah, I mean, we gotta have open parking spaces to attract businesses.

Yes, you know, if we're always at max at max, you're still not gonna get a business to come in.

I think that during the train of lights they have seven, I know they have 17 cars, but I think they have fewer than half that amount, less than half of that.

That's an exception to the rule.

It is it is, yeah.

Um how about if uh Benjamin and I go back and talk to the train people and sort of get a clear picture of what how they can participate financially.

So I think that's important.

I think that's important to find what what are we talking about?

Well, and an agreement for them uh in time in well verbally, at least to start that it can be used by the town and uh at all times.

Yeah, right.

Good.

I know I've already spoken, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

And I guess the people in the audience could help that that's a huge benefit to them.

They should pay for the whole darn thing, including the the piping over to the leech field if they use the leech field in the community park.

You know, that's an asset for them, a capital asset that uh as Andrew mentioned, they're they're not clipping coupons to buy groceries in that organization.

So uh the rest of the people that you're considering all own their system already, they've already paid for their stuff.

Thank you.

Sorry.

What's that sound?

Should should we move ahead?

And should we try to get more information?

Yeah, I think I'd nail the um train station down a little bit more.

I mean, they're a major beneficiary of this.

Well, and and also we get this, well then there's grant and there's this and there's this, and then there's like a million six bottom line.

Like, okay, that's a lot of money.

That's a lot of money for sort of yes, grants and and uh maybe the train, but where's the million six gonna come from?

No, it's what three starts looking more attractive.

Yeah, because it's a lot of money.

Yeah, it is a lot of money.

Just for the chain station because their traffic is so variable, that maintenance question does need to be tied with them closely as well, given that there's times of the year when they have a high much higher volume of visitors and would need a higher turnover at maintenance during that time, whereas the devo park is maybe a little bit more stable.

Um just something else to consider in your conversations with them.

Yeah, I uh I I'd rather go bigger than smaller because we're trying to revitalize and we're trying to expand and extend.

Um, and the parking is important.

People need to know which there, but as is brought up, um it's a benefit to train people, as with us.

Um so um if we can swim green this, and I think we should do a kind of you know, the odd of the deal on the train station people kind of push that a little bit.

Okay, four and you're supporting four, I think you were too if the money if the money's there, yeah, yeah.

If the money's there.

I mean, how does the set how does the loan and the the bonds be get satisfied?

Right.

I mean, is that by the uses?

Was it was it a coin operated door or what?

I mean oh no.

And the companies that are benefiting right different things.

I mean, like the one talking about the the the public publicity.

Yeah, coming up with the uh the 1.6 right where is that checked on the property taxes?

Is that you know where where does that money actually what's the the actual source?

Yeah, it's not it's not the whole amount that would have to be financed because we have some money and the train has some money, and so it'll be a subset of that.

Okay yeah but the final balance uh-huh we don't know yeah yeah I'm just curious what the mechanism is that's what she was talking about with and that's in the um five's report talking about bonds and you know we we met we toured a community system in Las Gatus by Lexington Reservoir and the state paid for the whole thing completely they're just they don't do that anymore but but there things will you know if we're ready things will come up yeah okay things will blow down past us I mean is it most likely this would be covered with a bond is that the the most likely scenario um you know we talked about the bond for options five six and seven but I don't know if it I don't a bond may not make sense three and four because it would just be the town center train station and us yeah people use the park the Sinnal Depot gardens you mentioned in your presentation that you were gonna apply for we're looking at applying for grants and that sort of thing right see what's available out there for that yeah I mean it's it's a little hard to say I think since I'm getting into there could be like a a campaign to try to see what types of commitments you could get and for either three or four and see what you could get to and decide sort of from there.

I think want to speak to bonds or yeah it's it's it's it's really I think too small for to consider a bond I mean you'd have to have an assessment district form and the overhead uh between the the administration of that the legal costs and so forth for just a few property owners would probably make it easy so I I think you know there uh I think the first first step is really to kind of do a massive search for potential grant monies you know from you know lots of different sources out there that you may not think of that that are not your typical wastewater funding sources but maybe something you know related to CINAHL or the historic preservation or uh yeah you name it you know I live in point Richmond where we have this historic um uh natatory of the Richmond plunge that went for years with the nonprofit trying to raise money and then the state opened up like six or seven million dollars to do a total re restoration of it through some um historic preservation funding so uh it just came out of the blue but it yeah so there I think that's that's uh that would be the first step I think to look for grant funding because that that's what the Lake Canyon the near Los Cattles that project got uh um but that that was state water resources funding that paid yeah just uh practically for the entire system so um yeah so it uh I I don't think the traditional assessment district and bonds for uh uh uh a handful of properties a few commercial and if and uh you know um nonprofit uh groups uh not sure is it's uh but uh yeah that would come into play more if you went for the community wide systems the that's the biggest thing we should be looking at because that's the thing that could be derail the whole project is who and how does it get paid for so we could do a bunch of work on a whole bunch of other things and then it ends up being all for naught because you can't get it paid for so we could talk we we could talk the train station oh no they're very motivated so um okay we'll do that okay thank you very much go on to 4B report and recommendations for an office of unincorporated communities and as a presentation on the findings and recommendations that one has put together oh wait a minute Lon did you have something did you have a comment yeah I did have a comment this is Lawn so I forgot to Lon had a comment so let me just go back to that thank you I appreciate that so I have another ask for the train people what they would prefer if they would prefer plan three or four I would prefer I wouldn't be interested in their um opinions on that and what they would be thinking about that so we would want that to be included in the discussion and maybe have their input on plan three versus plan four good idea good idea thank you okay okay yeah are we good okay hi everybody thank you for having me uh members of the advisory council and the community uh my name is Brianne Gala um and uh for those of you who don't know me I think I've mostly um

I would prefer, I wouldn't be interested in their opinions on that and what they would be thinking about that.

So I would want that to be included in the discussion and maybe have their input on plan three versus plan four.

Good idea.

Good idea.

Yeah.

Good situation.

Thank you.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

Are we good?

Okay.

Hi everybody.

Thank you for having me, members of the advisory council and the community.

My name is Brianne Gala.

And for those of you who don't know me, I think I've mostly talked with Connie in preparation for this meeting.

I have a 15 plus year background working on the at the intersection of public policy, community development, and affordable housing development.

And I've spent more than a decade of that working in Alameda County's unincorporated communities.

I'm here under contract today with the Board of Supervisors to present my research and findings for an office of unincorporated communities.

In some corners of the unincorporated communities, this idea has been kind of out there for maybe 15 plus years.

And so I just want to acknowledge, I think a lot of community members who have spent a lot of time advocating for this and trying to advance this idea.

And I this report is really like a really early stage look at a scope and a potential design of what an Office of Unincorporated Communities could look like.

And before I jump in, and because I have worked in the unincorporated communities before, I want to like clarify my role here.

What I'm presenting today represents, you know, 40 plus interviews I did with county staff.

I participated in the budgeting uh workshops that took place across the different communities in the fall.

Um and over a decade of working here in the community.

And so really I spent a lot of time listening, uh synthesizing and reflecting back the data that I heard, and my recommendations really flow from that.

Um so I just kind of want to clarify like I've I'm really here to kind of in some ways just reflect back what I heard through this process and start some initial discussions with folks here in Sinnol about uh about the the findings and next steps.

Uh next slide, please.

And I don't know, the glare is a little bit better, but I think there are copies of the slide deck if folks don't have it.

Um can see now, good, great.

Um okay, so today uh we can go to the next slide.

Okay, so the objective for this research again and work was really to research and recommend a design for the Office of Unincorporated Communities.

Next slide, please.

Um, and the the question really framing um this project was really uh can Alameda County strengthen strengthens how it manages and governs its unincorporated communities to meet the needs of the moment.

Um residents in Alameda County's unincorporated communities, as you all know, have no single point of accountability in their government, unlike our neighboring cities, there is no city manager, there is not a unified structure for holding together all the moving parts, all the different agencies, kind of the bigger vision for the unincorporated communities.

Um Alameda County fills that role, um, but its systems um were not designed for it.

And so this report really examines um whether that can change, how it can change, um, and kind of proposes next steps for moving forward on that.

Next slide.

Uh next slide.

Um, so the way I approach this work was in four ways.

The first was an organizational scan where I looked at um a lot of the different um kind of neighborhood and district specific plans, um, the environmental justice element, the vision 2036 county framework, the Baker Tilly report.

Um, as I mentioned, I interviewed over 40 um county staff and directors across a range of different agencies.

Um I uh also spent a good amount of time interviewing other counties across the state.

So interviewing LA, Sacramento, Moran, Contra Costa, and today I'll be focusing on LA, um Sacramento, and Marin.

Um go to the next slide.

Uh oh, here's a snapshot, and sorry, it feels kind of small now from here.

Uh snapshot of the different agencies and departments that I interviewed again, everyone from library, fire, sheriff's office, um, all of the different departments within the community development agency, the district, the different district offices that oversee the unincorporated communities, um, environmental health, public works, right?

So I did a pretty uh bro broad, broad uh kind of reach when it came to the interviews and kind of trying to hear from folks that who worked in different um levels within each agency as well.

Um next, oh thank you.

Um so one of the things I think that was really of interest uh to uh leadership within the county was like, well, how are others doing it?

Like how do like we are we're not the only um county across California that has this blend of urban and rural communities.

Um and so we I took a look across um counties that kind of in some ways look similar to Almeda County.

Of course, there's not a kind of a perfect match in that way.

Um and a lot of of course unincorporated communities in the state are really a lot more like ag areas in the Central Valley.

So the ones I looked at here, um, again, Marin, Sacramento and LA.

I just wanted to kind of put it put in context how these counties approach their unincorporated areas.

So okay, so just some context.

So in Alameda County, about 8% of our population, so roughly 150,000 people live in our unincorporated communities.

We have, of course, um the different advisory councils, but no dedicated coordinating function.

Um, Marin, of course, a much smaller county, um, does have though a higher percentage of its um residents living in its unincorporated communities.

Um they've played around with their model for how to manage the unincorporated areas and have settled on having two different kind of director manager positions within their CEO, like within their executive office that really serve as a liaison between like their advisory councils and folks in the community and the kind of bigger county bureaucracy.

Um LA, of course, LA is huge, but um, and has you know a million people living in its unincorporated communities, um, but they've also pursued something similar where they um have created a policy implementation and alignment branch within their executive branch, and in there they have a whole kind of office that's focused on their unincorporated areas and really trying to play more of a support and coordination role.

Sacramento is probably the outlier on a few fronts.

Um, 35% of the county's residents live in its unincorporated communities.

Um, and what they decided to do was to take kind of their version of like public works, all the departments within the community development agency and like waste management and kind of merge them into like a mega agency to try to kind of break down silos, improve communication, improve coordination.

Uh next slide, please.

Um, okay, I'm not gonna like walk everybody through the county uh org chart here, but it's more to show, of course, that and I guess make the point that like the county, of course, as we know it has all these other functions that it provides for all residents in the county.

Um, and the kind of bolded red boxes are really um the the agencies that I'm calling the municipal serving agencies, community development agency, public works, fire, library, and the sheriff's office.

Um four of those agencies have directors and leadership that you know report directly up to the board of supervisors, and then of course, at the sheriff's office we have um the elected official that oversees and manages that agency.

And we have the county administrator there with kind of a dotted line, um, but really as you can see, kind of no um no agency or department or office, however we want to call it down the road, but really playing that kind of coordinating role.

Next slide, please.

Okay, all right, yeah, we can go to the next slide for the sake of time.

Um so now I'll just get into my findings.

Um, so again, um since we've been hearing a lot of different calls across advisory council meetings, Mac meetings, right?

A lot of people kind of frustrated with certain kinds of coordination challenges within the county.

Um, I I spent some time, um spent a lot of time really with county staff trying to understand kind of looking upstream, like how is this playing out?

Like where where is it broken?

Like when we when we talk about coordination challenges or communication breakdowns, like what's going on kind of further upstream.

And so here um I'm gonna go over kind of five key findings.

Um, and I think then many ways they point to the the same root cause, which is there is um not one person or agency that's kind of responsible for coordinating the whole picture.

Sorry, talking fasted.

It's a lot to get through.

Um the first finding is around fragmented governance, which I kind of just mentioned, right?

Um, and one of the things since there isn't that single entity that's holding together all the municipal serving agencies and helping drive things forward, what tends to happen and what was raised in a hand quite a few interviews is that the district board offices tend to get dragged in to problem solving a lot.

Things in a way become kind of mini emergencies, um, and then the supervisors or their staff have to step in and try to call the different department heads to try to solve um different issues that really could have been resolved or should have been resolved earlier in the process.

Um the second one is around coordination challenges.

So this specifically relates to the issues that cross agency and department lines.

So one of the ones that like Lindsay brought up when I spent a lot of time with her, of course, was flooding, um, development and permit review, um, and enforcing our existing ordinances.

A lot of these kinds of issues where it it's like a bunch of different departments within CDA and public works and uh, you know, I don't know, environmental health.

Like, right, it's it could be a lot of different agencies, the sheriff's office fire, those tend to be the projects and that tend to be the most kind of have the biggest pain points.

Um, and so uh and collaborate, it's not that there aren't aren't isn't collaboration happening within the county, but it tends to be ad hoc and it's not institutionalized.

Um, the third finding was around communication.

Um, as of right now, there is not a centralized communication system for the county for residents in the unincorporated communities.

You tend to get communication from all the different agencies and the district offices, and particularly for those who really need to use a lot of county services, you know, there's a lot of complaints about getting bounced around and kind of unclear how you navigate like this bigger bureaucracy.

Uh, next uh slide, please.

Um, the fourth finding really relates to uh organizational culture.

Um, and I think this kind of gets at something deeper that people kind of pointed to within how agencies and departments communicate within the county.

Um, and so right now, many Alameda County agencies uh kind of in my opinion operate like regulatory organizations.

Um, a regulatory organization's job is compliance, right?

Like uh departments check the boxes.

Did I get out the permit on time?

Um, did I deliver the program?

Like, did I post a flyer on time?

Did I get out the notice when I was supposed to?

Um, as opposed to like the county playing a role as like a local government that's really looking more at community outcomes.

Like, did the neighborhood get safer because of all of these interventions?

Um, did the permitting process actually result in more housing getting built, or did that flooding problem get resolved for the long term, or like was it a band-aid solution put on that specific, you know, incident?

Um, and so like it could we have this capacity where someone is responsible for coordinating the end result and not just like managing their lane of the process.

Um I think that's really one of the big gaps that we found is that like staff are very committed within the county, but they're operating in a system that rewards staying in your lane.

Um, and and that has a lot of um issues that play out every day on the ground here.

Um the fifth one was about like policy making without budget and resource alignment.

So, quite a few um folks within the county, and I think also on the community side pointed out this.

We often adopt policies here in the county for the unincorporated communities, um, and uh maybe don't add more staff to make sure those are implemented correctly and robustly so that we're achieving the outcomes that we set out to.

And so there's kind of this misalignment between policymaking and the budgeting process, and like part of the consideration here is like could we uh try to connect those more, add capacity to the to the budgeting and policy discussions that are taking place.

Um this one, okay.

Well, this is a this is a I kept the slide decks the same for all four or five advisory council meetings I'm going to.

This is a really big example on the urban side, but um I think I'll just use it as an example here, but we could sub the issue in.

Um, so sidewalk vending has been a really significant issue in the urban parts of the unincorporated community.

Um, and the county did adopt a sidewalk vending ordinance, um, and it required a lot of coordination between like code enforcement, um, environmental health, the sheriff's office and public works.

Uh, and in the end, like it kind of played out in this way where any is playing out where like code enforcement has this limited legal authority to where they can only ticket environmental health, you know, is is has the role of confiscating unsafe food, but they don't have the capacity to necessarily like store it all and haul it and all of that all the time.

And the sheriff's office is there to like enforce nuisance laws and public works is only responsible for the public right away.

And so you have this issue where there isn't very clear, um, there's all these different agencies, all these different authorities and different capacities, and not necessarily somebody who's there making sure it all fits together.

Um, and this is just a very specific example that's kind of in the public line like light right now, but I think is a real is an example that we could probably sub the issue and sub the agency names because there was probably a dozen different of these issues that were raised in the interviews.

It's like, oh, did you hear about that issue?

Like the coordination was challenging on that, and like it could have been done better, or we could have been more efficient or more effective if like we'd been coordinating in a better way across all these different agencies and departments.

Next slide, please.

So kind of the central finding from the research is that you know it is the challenges facing the unincorporated communities that are that were kind of raised through this process are not caused by individual departments or agencies, really caused by kind of a uh structural gaps in how the county governs and manages and coordinates in the unincorporated communities.

So my sort of recommendations are really stem from like how can we design the office to address uh this finding or these types of findings.

Uh next slide, next slide.

We could skip the slide for time.

Okay.

So my uh my recommendations, um, my first recommendation is to establish an office of unincorporated communities as a three-year pilot.

Um this uh ideally by focusing by creating it as a pilot, and this was kind of common across other counties too.

They they tested one model and then made tweaks as they learned as you as you kind of get out there in the communities and try to do some of this problem solving and coordination work.

Ideally, we would focus on a limited number of high impact cross-agency initiatives, um, and we would be very clear about what our objectives are and our performance measures, um, and then the success would be evaluated against those measures.

And again, like I'm not, I don't want to propose another agency or office or whatever we wanna call it right now.

Um, if it's not achieving, of course, like what the community wants.

So create it as a pilot test and decide if it's working or what tweaks we might want to make.

Uh, the second recommendation is to is around the scope of work.

Um, so here are the kind of the five core functions that I'm I'm suggesting the office focus on.

The first is really to represent the unincorporated communities at internal county tables by having an office that's really taking a view of both the urban and rural communities and kind of keeping track of all the different initiatives that are going on at the max, at the community level, and then being able to be in different county spaces where there are discussions about I don't know, let's say measure W right now is a big discussion, or um different policy tables, different discussions about the county budget.

There would be more of that representation for the unincorporated communities.

Of course, our district offices play that role now and really do a lot.

And they also have a lot of other roles and jobs and things that they work on.

Um sorry, if I can ask a question here so I can put this into context as you go.

How many different unincorporated areas are within Alameda County?

I know Castor Valley.

Custer Valley, Fairview, Ashland, Cheryland, Hayward Acres, San Lorenzo.

And then I think you know, there are the really small East County pockets.

Large geography.

Large population, large geography.

Yeah, and the in the here, yes, exactly.

But it's kind of when I say the urban unincorporated communities, then it I'm usually talking about Ashland Cherryland, Hayward Acres, San Lorenzo, Castor Valley, and Fairview, and Sennol and the East County pockets.

I'm kind of calling the rural.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, uh that would have been a nice piece to see here's how many different areas and and how many are urban versus rural.

Because I know Castor Valley is what about 60,000.

And I'm I'm just kind of curious if that one individual pocket represents 85% of the total population within the unincorporated.

Yeah, so Castor Valley, I mean, without hugging the report.

Yeah, you don't know.

But let's just say like off the top of our heads, it's like 60 out of the 150.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

So that's that's probably the only thing I want to give context.

Okay.

What percentages the rural versus urban as we're putting together a program?

Right.

How is it weighted?

Okay.

That's all.

Yeah, no, no, that's interrupt.

No, no, no.

It was good.

I got to catch my breath too.

So that's great.

Um, the second, um, so just going through the scope of work.

So representing the unincorporated communities.

The second one would be adding capacity to solve these more complex cross-agency um challenges or pain points.

So picking a uh priority project, the one that's kind of come up probably the most and kind of came out of the Baker Tilly report is really um focusing on improving the development um review and permitting process.

That is what the pilot project is could change um through this process of kind of trying to form this, but that's my proposal now.

Um, the third would be to launch the communications hub.

So, really, can we create a website for the unincorporated communities?

Can we try to streamline all the different municipal serving agencies and sort of their communication so it's easier to navigate the county for community members in the unincorporated community?

Um the fourth, and this, you know, we could discuss this one, but supporting the advisory councils right now.

The advisory councils, you know, district one supports you all here, district four supports the other three in the urban communities.

Um there's been talk about if that this could be under this office, um, helping support you know, agendas, training, outreach, um, and kind of alignment across them, and making sure also that like the feedback from the MACs gets its makes its way up to the board, and like that there's kind of more consistent communication between the board and the advisory councils and you all here.

So, and the last one relates to the budget process.

Uh, could this office play a role in supporting um making sure that the communities input really makes its way into the county budgeting process since of course the county budgeting process has such a tremendous impact on the unincorporated communities given the role the county plays here?

Um thank you.

The scope, the a really critical part of this work, and maybe the part of it like that kept me up the most at night was um that this office could really only work uh if it has real authority, and again, this office isn't meant to take over what departments do, right?

They're gonna keep their subject matter expertise, continue to do all their operational work.

Um, but what's missing again right now is someone that's responsible for coordinating for really trying to make sure that it kind of all adds up and works well together.

And so to do that effectively, uh, the office really needs to have support from the board of supervisors and really have um board granted convening authority to really bring together all of the agencies who work in the unincorporated communities on shared priorities on a lot of these like problem solving kind of interagency projects.

Um, and that's really really I think critical towards getting to what people really want to see, which is like we want outcomes on some of these things that we've been asking accounting for for years, and we need someone to help us get there.

Um next slide.

Okay, so my third recommendation is to embed the Office of Unincorporated Communities within the county administrator's office, again with this kind of board endorsed board granted committee.

Um the CAO's office, the county administrator is our kind of uh closest thing to being that kind of like executive branch where there's all the kind of budget development and policy development work taking place there.

So by embedding there, we'd be able to like leverage and build on that infrastructure that hopefully would reduce startup time and cost by like making sure that again uh this office is in a way kind of above the other agencies and sort of closer to the decision making powers within the county.

Um, if you go to the next slide, this is like too much to look at, I realize now, but um it this is I kind of considered a range of different options for where the uh office could live and the county administrators being an independent office, um, being located within the community development agency has come up because of given given the CDA's role as having a lot of the different municipal serving departments within that agency.

Um, and of course, again, we could do nothing, which is the status quo option.

Um, and really um again, I think that the CAO's office kind of gives the right level of uh authority, is easier to implement from like a feasibility lens in terms of like cost and how quickly we could act, and um is is more financially feasible.

Um the independent office at one point was you know something I was quite wet to is like I thought it would be more effective to be able to operate independently, um but I also but I do think that there's a really big hurdle to get through in terms of like forming a whole new like branch within county government in terms of like cost and time and what that would mean and all the legal work that we would need to do, right?

So there would be a lot of I think a much heavier lift to getting that off the ground.

Um, so again, there's more in the report, but just want to say like there was I did give thought to a range of different options about where this could live within the county infrastructure, so that again we're not adding bureaucracy, we're leveraging what's there and we're making this effective for uh the unincorporated communities.

Um structure, I'm proposing that we have a three um person team for this pilot period, a director that would help with a lot of the cross-agency relationships, being a liaison to the board of supervisors, really representing the unincorporated community is helping to let's say fundraise, right?

Like doing some of that kind of work where we're identifying state and federal resources, we're really kind of representing the communities, you know, in more leadership settings.

Um, and then the project manager and administrator would more focus on a lot of the get you know getting the communications hub off the ground, um really supporting a lot of the more strategic interagency initiatives um that need to be addressed and supported across um the county.

Um next slide please.

Um so this I just want to kind of acknowledge this that one of probably the biggest concerns raised um throughout the research for this project was the was whether creating this is just adding more bureaucracy and not really solving some of the root cause issues.

Um I really I think took that to heart around particularly wanting to again embed this within our existing infrastructure and really build that capacity so that again the county is helping to deliver kind of better services and do better kind of work here without again needing like a whole nother layer of government to do that.

Um so really focus more on adding capacity and using our existing infrastructure better rather than building something new.

And I so I do want to acknowledge them for folks who raised that that was kind of or are concerned about that that that was part of the consideration with putting the office within the CAO's office.

Um we can skip this slide.

Um I'll put the slide back up at the end when like folks are asking questions, it's just the um summary.

Um, and so how this uh office could improve everyday experiences with the county, um, if them implemented effectively, uh residents will have clearer pathways to county services, ideally no more getting bounced around between different departments and agencies, again, complex issues like flooding or permitting or a lot of ordinance enforcement work.

Um, we'll have a designated lead, um, and more clarity about kind of who's in charge and who you can go to if you're having issues.

Um again, uncor the unincorporated communities would in the bigger picture, you know, have more of a voice in county wide decision making and planning work.

Uh next slide.

Next one.

Thank you.

Um, just for context, um, and I, you know, thanks for the context setting question earlier.

Um, so this is my third advisory council meeting, and after this, I have Castro Valley on Monday.

So this month is uh been a lot of nights, a lot of night meetings, um, meeting with folks in the community.

Um, and so it this is an action item.

So I'm kind of formally um ideally leaving here with uh a vote, you know, a vote from the council.

Um and so yeah, but this is the part of phase one.

Um I'll be taking kind of all the feedback from community members and from the councils before going to um the board committees in May and June, and then it would go before the full board of supervisors for a vote.

Um and then, you know, again, this is kind of subject to moving forward.

So I didn't spend too much time talking about phase two and three, but just to give us sense of it, phase two would ideally be the operations planning period.

So if we agree as an area count, the county agrees to move forward, um, then the phase two would focus more on you know, refining the staffing model, refining the budget, continuing to identify new sources of funding um that would support this, right?

So getting more clarity about what how this would operate in the different areas, again, maybe the urban rural split of time, like what would you know?

Where are the staff gonna sit and be located?

How are they gonna interface with the advisory councils?

Like a lot of those kind of finer tuning, finer tuned questions would be um, I think we'd get to in that operations planning phase, and then phase three would be the launch of the pilot.

Um so with that, I can get to the comments questions.

I know in the last advisory council, if you go one more slide, one more slide.

Okay, uh, oh, this is one not have it.

Okay, sorry.

Can you go back?

Okay, maybe I didn't make it this version.

Okay, um, we could just stay on the question slide.

But uh there is in the other councils, we had like a formal script.

I'm sorry if I didn't make it in this one of like what what the options were for voting, so I can um get that and read them to you in a second, but happy to engage in questions and discussion, and thank you for having me.

So the unincorporated areas of Alameda County represented by four four or five advisory councils.

One hasn't been formed yet, which is the East County.

And then there's us, Sunol Advisory Council, and there's three Eden Edenary in Fairview and Castro Valley.

Eden, Fairview, and Castro Valley are all under District Three and just net Nate and four.

Four.

Four and three and four.

Three and four.

So Castro Valley is Capster Valley and Fairview solely sit in Supervisor Miley's office.

So in District Four.

Um, part of Ashland and all of San Lorenzo sit in Supervisor Tam's office, and a lot of Ashland and all of Cherryland sit in District Four, Supervisor Miley's office.

So we it's really three three out of the oh, thank you.

Was that in there?

No, I found it from Oh, sorry.

Okay, great.

Thanks.

Um, yeah.

So really there are three supervisors overseeing the hundred and fifty thousand unincorporated residents.

So we expect the supervisor for our area, district one to represent us.

And I haven't heard anybody say that district one isn't representing Central.

So are the other districts or are the other Macs advisory councils feeling that their supervisor is not representing them.

So my sense of it is not necessarily about representation.

And I think very much people feel like they could call supervisors, Tam or Supervisor Miley, and there's avenues for them to engage.

I think what maybe the feeling is is that they those folks have also all of their county wide responsibilities and things that pull them in many directions, and so at times there can be uh it can be hard to it's like there's a constant, like hey, don't forget about the unincorporated communities, like kind of that is a constant issue in those communities.

So a good example right now is that um there's all the discussions going on about how the county is gonna allocate the many, many, many millions of dollars in measure W funding, and it took quite a lot of advocating for folks within the unincorporated communities to say, like, don't forget about the unincorporated communities, like when you're considering how you're gonna distribute funding across the county.

There's all these folks advocating from all the cities for this funding and being heard, like make sure we get our make sure we get our fair share.

So it's not so much that I don't think people feel they have a great relationship with their supervisors or like that that the supervisor doesn't listen to the Macs.

It's not that it's more that there could be more support, I think, for coordinating when it around some of these like major issues that tend to be pain point.

So it's more of like an age interagency coordination issue.

I would think is a lot of where people feel there's a lot of challenge.

I I'm not speaking for us, but where it might be needed in other places, but at least our supervisor, well, he'll hold town halls in Sinnol, we've had over here.

I know since I've been here, that's there's been at least two or three of those who come to the meetings, and I feel like he's pretty accessible.

Um, and so I don't some of the stuff you're speaking about.

I can definitely see it happening, but I just don't see it happening with us.

I think that everything issues been brought up.

We had a thing, what you're talking about, the kind of bureaucracy where all the different agencies are bumping heads and you know who's doing what, and Connie got involved and and uh Dave Howbert got involved, and we got them all in, you know, and we had them at the town hall center over here, and we had a big meeting, and and uh so I I think it's been pretty good um from what what we've seen.

I but I don't so I don't think that it's not needed, but I think for us it's been pretty pretty good.

One of the ones that I would say like Lindsay brought up when I interviewed her that she felt was a pay point out here, really related to a lot of the more like environmental flooding infrastructure issues, and sometimes there's a lot of like everyone pointing like this.

That was the one, yeah, and she feeling like okay, we have to like get the supervisor and myself kind of in and so yeah, so it results in these things like uh town hall, and and that's great.

And I think also could there be somebody earlier who's kind of marshalling that project forward and like get you know, so it doesn't like did the town, you know, like helping to support in a more long-term way instead of like uh town hall, one event.

Um so I think that that was a bit I think that was the example that kind of came up out for out here that maybe is it it's a different issue, of course, than the other communities, but kind of a similar dynamic around needing the supervisor's office to hold like a big meeting, and then after the meeting, it's like someone still has to hold that work and like make sure it gets implemented, kind of a similar in a way, similar dynamic, different issue.

Going back to my uh question a little bit ago about um rural versus the urban areas.

Um you mentioned about eight different areas.

I'm familiar with all of those.

What single other area is is rural like us?

Which one?

None, I don't think so.

I'm I'm a little bit concerned that that we would potentially end up on a bit of an island because population wise, we're 0.7% less than one percent.

And I'm afraid that we would potentially get caught in the 8020 rule where you mentioned a minute ago these limited resources that everybody has in all the different offices.

And I know from being in business that that there's going to be a conversation at some point where they say, listen, we only have so much time to work on so many different things.

We need to focus on what's going to handle 80% of the issues.

And we just can't help the other 20.

Now, when you're only 0.7% of that 20, it really makes you on a small spot.

And I do believe that that we have very unique issues that are completely different than what they may have in Castor Valley or San Lorenzo.

I mean, they've got what are we dealing with, you know, how are we gonna do all these big corporations that have stores in our areas?

Um, you know, we don't even have a coffee shop that's open every single day.

So and our concerns, and you know, I'm only lived here five years, but long enough to to start learning what a rural area is about coming from Castor Valley.

And um that's my concern.

I mean, we don't already we don't have really any authority, we have influence.

We don't have authority to to make a decision, only influence a decision.

So from one standpoint, I like the idea of having an area or a group that might have more authority, but I'm I'm I'm worried that our topic may never make it onto the agenda.

There's too few of us, too few voices, if if if if we're upset.

Yeah, yeah, that was that was my reaction.

Yeah, going through all of this before the meeting was this a municipal versus rural.

I mean, I'd be cheering, I'd be cheering to the sky if I still lived in Castor Valley, because this is what I complained about all the time in Castor Valley.

But we had we had city issues, I mean significant city city issues, not I mean, I don't even know if there's where you would find a septic tank in Castor Valley.

So or Leechfield, yeah, Cole Canyon.

I mean, they do exist, but um, I mean, you know, squeaky wheel gets the oil, and and I just that's my concern.

Yeah, I think one of the things that was important for me about this project was trying to like ensure that the rural communities were included, and this didn't just become focused on the urban communities because there are these issues that are real for people out here, and to the point of all the bicyclists and everyone who's out here hiking on the weekend, like there's a lot of folks from all parts of the county who use the resources of this community too.

So um, I yeah, I personally felt like it was important to include um you all here, or at least like have this conversation about the inclusion of the rural communities.

Um, but fair enough.

There's of course, like you said, it's a huge, you know, there's a lot of kind of different kinds of issues in those communities around like poverty in the schools and the streets and illegal dumping and right, like there's a whole slew of things and everything, yeah.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah.

I'm looking at recommendation to scope of work, number four is administer the advisory council.

You keep talking about support, support, support.

And the first line is lead the coordination of the agendas of the Macs and gags into the board offices.

So all of a sudden, now it's not support, it's lead.

Um, and I see those two as very different approaches.

Yeah.

By that I think I I was it was more play a role in uh streamlining and aligning and like helping support um the chairs who are in charge.

I mean, Castro Valley Mac meets a few times a month.

I think the other ones meet monthly.

Um, but I think on some of them there's been issues around recruiting, also recruiting um more diverse voices onto those groups, right?

Like making sure that the that the advisory councils like are representative of kind of how much, let's say Castor Valley has changed in the last 10 or 20 years, right?

So um, but I I I hear your point that it's more about, and I really also got this question out of few of the Macs, which was what's going to be the role between the advisory councils and the office?

And I can feel like maybe we're about to go there, which um I think is uh really important, and I really think that there's been a lot of complaints at some of the advisory councils about feeling like some of these things don't make the way it doesn't make it like a lot of the feedback stays in this advisory way, and it doesn't make it all the way up to the county, and yeah, maybe um the supervisor hears some of these issues, but again, like is all the feedback from folks here in the community um really making its way across all the different departments and agencies and kind of getting socialized, implemented in someone making the calls to follow up, and um, so I really see this office as helping to support that process.

I think for a lot of the advisory councils like we have our day jobs, like we're not, you know, we don't have all day to like hunt down different folks within CDA, we're working, we're trying to like make it work.

Um, and so could this office play that role of okay, there's a lot of like to-dos coming out of this advisory council meeting like tomorrow morning, who's starting to make sure that like the right folks within all the different agencies got a heads up about like what was discussed here.

So to follow up on that, if uh if a county agency is helping on staying in their lane, why is one other person it'll able to rattle their cage more than anybody else?

Yeah, because they're gonna say no, we're gonna stay in our lane.

It's one of the main things.

So their thing and whatever.

Yeah, that's kind of one of the main reasons that I propose putting it with the CAO's office, because if there is any agency within the county that does, besides the board, of course, that is playing that role of we have, you know, we oversee the sort of policy process, the budget, right?

Like could we strengthen that capacity for more oversight and accountability within that agency?

That's kind of what other counties have done who have tried to get a handle on these coordination issues.

They've added more of that kind of oversight function within their administrators or executive offices.

Because to your point, who right now is doing that role?

Of course, you could like call your supervisor, but again, there are there's so many different agency heads and like things going on, and some of these agencies have like a half a dozen departments in them that are huge with you know, so um yeah, that that that was a bit of the logic there trying to get trying to build more accountability within the system.

And that was probably an issue in the Baker Tilly report too.

Yes.

So what is the county doing?

Maybe you don't know.

Maybe Sean's the one day ask, I don't know, what is the county doing to address the issues in the Baker Tilly report.

We should be receiving the recommendations from the CAO's office very soon.

I don't know what date, but as you may remember, might remember it went to the planning commission, they had some recommendations, they sent it theirs back to the CAOs to this through the TMP committee, and now we're just waiting for those for those to come back.

So it's in it's going through the process and being implemented.

It's been a very long process, yeah, but it is going through the process, and there was a recommendation within the 53 that the baker till report yielded to us to do more coordination of our department agencies.

One biggest hurdle we have is we don't make it easy for our constituents to navigate through our bureaucratic agencies, and we don't always do a good job internally telling folks that hey, oh, don't just go away here, go here and and help them through the process.

So that's one of the things that I that I think would be beneficial of being part of this overall Office of Unincorporated Services because we do need better coordination for for our constituents because they get confused, frustrated, and time and time again projects take too long, and that impedes economic development throughout the unincorporated area.

Yeah, the Baker Tilly um and uh there were there were a handful of like I guess most of the relevant agencies who are involved in Baker Tilly did report some progress on some of them, like they've gotten to work implementing it, even though there are these changes.

So that was nice to hear.

But again, yeah, I think it was a core recommendation there.

It was a core recommendation in the environmental justice element.

So the county, I think, has been adopting certain plans already that have been pointing to this as a chronic issue, that there isn't this coordination, it impedes investment, it impedes more development.

Um that's just on the baker tilly.

Again, I think you could sub Baker Tilly for a different issue, and you kind of have the same coordination challenges amongst some of the agencies.

So I think that I agree with you that implementing some of the recommend the recommendations from the Baker Tilly report, improving the way the county operates is really valuable and important.

But I I really don't like the words that are on page 29 of your report to strengthen the consistency between the advisory councils, um, providing training on boarding, clarifying the roles.

I it just sounds very oppressive.

Uh-huh.

Okay.

To the advisory councils.

And I think maybe that would be helpful to some the ones that are really municipal, but we really this this advisory council really stayed strong that we wanted to be a citizen's advisory council, not a municipal advisory council.

We're not Sunol is not a municipal entity.

So I it's just doesn't seem like it's a fit for us.

Okay.

No, but that's a little bit just you.

I love the concept of cohesion, and I think it's a great thing, but as Ben and Evan Ian and Connie, you said that we're small and 0.7%.

I think you know what?

You know, don't forget.

What was the last thing?

I'm sorry.

Leave it alone if it's not broken.

I know.

That isn't broken.

I mean, that's I guess.

Uh one of the things I'll just say about the voting and the action item from the council, and of course, folks from the public or online one way in.

But like fair, the Eden Mac voted for number one, which is just like an outright like voting to support moving forward with this, advancing to phase two.

The fair view Mac to your point about not liking the language about the Macs, like they voted for number two, which is to approve this.

Um, with the following amendments, and then they gave me their amendments.

Um, you know, we could add like to your point, Connie.

Like if we want to remove the the function around the coordination and support for the advisory councils, or maybe we just limit it to the municipal the max and not the citizen advisory council, like right.

Like we could um, if you guys are supportive of the concept, there's the option, of course, for like giving all those amendments now more formally as part of the process.

Okay.

So I think we've answered right ahead.

We've been able to ask our questions and get the answers, so we need to hear from the public.

Is any public comment?

Andrew, you have your name here.

Yeah, tell me also.

Um Kelly, too.

The company that I talked about before, Teradine.

Um I was one of the first two program managers in that company.

And one of the challenges of program manager, well, program manager is cat herder, which essentially you have to influence across silos.

And what I'm hearing is the county's a bunch of silos that need to have somebody move across them on behalf of the unincorporated area, right?

Um, one of the concepts that we talked about was that and we implemented was program management and service.

We were a service to each one of the functions, driving a product through all of those processes.

And the product in this case is you've done a job of what's the benefit to the to the communities and that, but I think when the concern comes up here was the same concern that we had when when they started us.

Are these people gonna come in and and count our time?

Are these gonna people gonna get in our way?

Are these gonna people manage us?

They bought us on the first project when I got my job on the second project.

They didn't want to do another one without us because we treated it as a service.

We provided a service to the Mac to the consider.

I mean, the equivalent.

And so the wording matters.

And I want to give credit to Mary and Ian and all of the group here for challenging.

Is this a service, or is this somebody gonna tell us how it works?

Um, I would be delighted to spend more time with you.

I don't know if you need to.

I I would work with you offline.

I know something about this as a management consultant.

I'd be pleased to help.

Okay, thank you.

Did you have a comment?

I think a little victory lab here.

Um, first thing I said when when I heard about this was, oh, well, I gotta compare this with Los Angeles County, blah, blah, blah, you know, do all this good with what we just heard.

And she then she went, they went right there.

Los Angeles County has 10% of their population is unincorporated.

It's very comparable.

And first, and what did I get?

I got pushback from the county supervisor who represents the most unincorporated, and so it's Los Angeles County uh too big.

This is not a comparison.

And look at here, look at here.

Los Angeles County is a comparison.

I'm very happy.

Um, he feels overloaded, feels very overloaded.

His staff represents 78% of the unincorporated residents, and they're getting all the complaints.

That's why you guys are uh can actually get something done occasionally because you're not in with the other 78% of the people overloading his staff.

Um, and then the this thing is fundamentally uh misnamed.

Um, kind of like that movie uh where where it's the uh uh the uh what is it, a few good men.

You can't handle the truth, you can't handle this structure.

And what we have on this slide is something more like an office of strategic initiatives or a community services coordination office, or maybe an office of integrated community services.

That's what we're getting proposed, but it's going under the grandiose title, Office of Unincorporated Services.

They're not they're not proposing to do that.

They're proposing to do all those other things, coordination functions.

So the the title is fundamentally misnamed.

Um this whole thing is is uh going under the wrong uh, you know, it's overpromising, it's it's guaranteed to underdeliver unless you re relabel it.

Um yeah, this is this is uh uh an interesting thing because the county doesn't want unincorporated services.

Any I don't think we have any other comments.

So we didn't put a card in I don't know if the council what the council heard from your presentation, but I I heard you tell us that creating this agency would make my life easier as I try to deal with the county, but yet your specific out of scope, not included, says that no, you don't want to manage constituent engagement, which I assume my engagement with the county when they're likely all these different directives, uh, nor would you manage service delivery from the county.

So I'm I'm left with the conclusion that the county is so dysfunctional that it can't operate efficiently, and they need someone to come in as a management consultant and straighten them out.

The uh as far as the advocating for money for us, I would expect David Halbert's office to be doing that, and I can call him up and yell at him.

Uh but I wouldn't want to do that to you guys.

So thank you.

Is there anyone online or should I answer?

Is there anybody?

Okay.

Do you want me to like answer some of the feedback or do we need to move on to make a motion?

Sure.

I I would say that we support implementing the recommendations of Baker Tilly and would like to see the county have a lead person to follow up on that.

But I I don't think we want to be organized.

We don't want to be under the thing.

We would support it was supported for urban communities, but it's not not for rural communities.

That sounds good too.

Sounds good too.

I mean, I I've I my biggest concern is is uh I think we're gonna be a singular group within the whole organization.

There's there's no friends like us in the group.

We're we're the rural ones.

Um you know, and uh I mean, I love the idea in general for the unincorporated um urban areas.

I think they definitely need this.

Um I've just never really been part of a community that might you know not have uh you know kind of sibling in the game that's that it's gonna feel our pains directly.

They'll they'll be respectful for of them, but I just know that that when this organization has uh a bunch of things to deal with, and they're having to pick which ones they're gonna deal with, and they're going, well, if if we don't deal with this one in Castor Valley, we're gonna have 50 people knocking at our door tomorrow morning, versus if we don't deal with the one in snow, we're gonna have three.

I heard nothing that's was going to support the rural advisors, citizen advisory committee on this.

I heard it was like it was like Castric Valley, 50,000 here, 20,000 here, city pothole problems.

Yeah, that's not you know, I saw a bobcat walking down my driveway on the way here.

Okay, I don't have a pothole problem.

Well, what about the previous presentation?

Because when I when I heard the end of that with all the unidentified grant funding, I was thinking like this is what an office could do for this community is like actually help to raise state and federal funding, um, which is one of the kinds of roles that offices like this play for the unincorporated communities, right?

You're kind of playing a role of how do we marshal resources for these communities that we might not have, like they might have not been on your radar, right?

Um, so that that was one of the things that was on my mind about like how could this office play a role?

And like, do we want to?

I mean, one thing you could do if you guys are sort of in support of the concept, but want to make sure you have the right representation is to put forth support with an amendment.

Like I hear that you don't support oversight of the advisory council, so right, and like that you want a certain percentage of the resources and time of the staff dedicated to issues that are very much related to this community, or like Baker Tilly, which is really a county, I mean an unincorporated wide issue.

So there are some issues that really like impact this community and the others.

Um yeah, it's a little bit of a little bit of a catch 22, and I agree with you that this department would would have a lot of these resources, tools, know-how, uh, awareness of grants and so forth that we could desperately need and use.

Yeah, um, but the catch 22 part of that is would we be allocated the time to go use those tools on our behalf?

You know, it it I think it might not get put forth.

That's that's the concern.

At least that I have.

Yeah, um, I think they're not gonna turn down the request for help if if we were to you know say that we we you know not not for rural, we you know we don't we don't support it for rural communities.

But if we had a question on grants, they're not gonna say, Hey, we can't talk to you.

They might point us in the right direction, and Connie might send them a note and they go, Yeah, this, this, this, and then she can go work on it.

It's not that they're gonna withhold.

I think they'd still, if we asked them, do you have this?

Do you know about this?

They'd probably give us some information.

But uh, I was thinking something more along the lines of you know, it sounds like it's needed in urban areas, but you know, I was thinking something along the line of supporting number two up there with the amendment that it doesn't apply to rural areas, us, but you'll say rural.

Yeah, what do you guys think of that?

That's clear enough to that it doesn't apply to rural areas, or it's not core.

It's not coordinating the activities of citizens' advisory council.

It doesn't appear advantageous at this point to the rural areas, yeah.

Or rather, maybe another way to ask question on my end, just so is like what would you want to see changed so that it better represents the rural areas because like part of the process I'm in now is before everything is all cemented, or there is this about right.

Like part of why I'm here is to be like, how could this work for you guys better?

So if you want changes and you want to vote for let's say number two and say, like this is how this could be modified.

I guess that's yeah, I wanted to be here before it was too final because so we could have the dialogue, I could make the changes.

Um challenge is this word is so small, and I can see where this is needed, but the challenge is we're so small, and everybody has a voice, and it's heard because we're so small.

And there are there are you know a lot of folks in this room, everybody has direct access.

It's not it's not 80,000 people where it's like, oh my gosh, you know, you got to be able to everybody here has contacted and had contact with Sean with David Haubert.

It's it's it's it's not you and it's not the concept, it's just some old.

It's just it's just not needed because we're so small.

If we were three times as big as we were four times, you might need it because it's so many people, and you're trying to funnel everything, but we're just so small.

It's I think that's the main thing.

It's not it's again, it's not you, it's not something that can be done, it's just we're tiny and it's not needed.

It's it's make it it's it's it's creating a solution to a problem that doesn't exist for us.

I fully believe it exists elsewhere, big time, just not here.

If we were 0.7 of 30 percent within the unincorporated area, then I'd go, okay, well, a third of the time is gonna be spent on rural issues, two-thirds on urban, and you know, we're part of that 30 percent with you know, we're gonna get a lion's share of of the resources and the attention on rural matters, but when we're the such an outlier, um, like you said on Bobcats, um, and things like that.

Um, I just I I don't see where we make it very high up on the the agenda list at meetings.

Just I I wouldn't if I if it was my company and I'm running a company of of a thousand people and I get two people or one person complaining about something, it's probably not gonna be in my weekly meeting with my staff, not gonna happen.

Okay, so you moved a motion supervisors approve the proposed office of an incorporated communities with an amendment that the rural areas don't apply to apply to this, yeah.

So they can do it in the in the urban areas where it's needed, but it wouldn't apply to rural areas, such as Sunol, it would be excluded, excluded, yep.

Excluded, excluded, excluded.

Exclude.

I'll second that council member clinic approve.

Council member Clinton.

Approve.

Well, is there any more discussion?

Able, yeah.

Oh.

Of the motion.

Okay.

So I would so approve.

Council Member Harrison.

Approved with the amendment.

Okay.

Council McLean.

Approved the amendment.

Council member start.

Approved.

Chair DeGrange.

With the amendment, yes.

Motion passed.

Okay.

That's unanimous.

Thank you very much, Pram.

Thanks for having me.

I appreciate it.

Thank you.

Okay.

Go on to 4C.

Conditional use permit to allow multi-use in a rental space in downtown.

It's just the old whistle stop antiques building that's labeled the galleria now.

Welcome, William.

Good evening, everyone.

This I am William with Dallamir County Plan Department.

I'm here to present a conditional use permit.

Um for a property in downtown Sunol.

It's to allow the multi-use rental space within an existing uh commercial building, and the address is 11583, Main Street and Sunol.

And both the zoning and the general plan designation is the SNOL downtown zoning district, and then under the East County area plan, it's also a SNO downtown.

In terms of CEQA, the California Environmental Quality Act review, this is an existing building, so there's no proposal to add on to the volume or the footprint of the physical building itself.

This is a brief summary of the proposed uses.

So currently, under the zoning ordinance, pretty much every single use that's proposed proposed in downtown SONO requires a conditional use permit for each new business.

So this conditional use permit would apply to only this building and at this subject location.

And those few uses include personal services, for example, there's already a barbershop that's existing within this building, cosmetologist, food or non-alcoholic beverage services, for example, selling food or a retail business, micro-event venue, which is currently the galleria portion of the space with a maximum of 10 uh individuals per event on every two months.

Um two events per month.

Um and then a business office, business office services, excluding um vehicle-oriented um businesses, for example, like changing tires, wheels, etc.

It would be mainly for like uh copy or uh or like uh uh a UPS office uh space.

Um currently there are there were improvements made to the galleria space, including uh paid to the interior walls, um, the addition of mirrors and uh renovations to the bathrooms, um, outdoor signage, the inclusion of both indoor and outdoor furniture, and then for Mary's barbershop improvements includes the uh placement of a new door and some fixtures as well.

So all those improvements that require a building permit, they would have to um apply for building permits for any improvements out to either previously done or will be presented or proposed in the future for those uh spaces specifically.

Um this photo is uh just a street level view of the existing building, as you can see here to the right hand side is the farmer shop, um, and the main space or of the building itself is the gallery building, and then to the left hand side used to be JJ Land, which was a small retail store, um, selling stacks, etc.

Um, but currently it is vacant, so there's no um tenant space currently as it sits.

Um, Mary's barbershop and Dejan Land previously all submitted separate conditional use permits.

One was submitted for Mary's barbershop in 2022, and then JG Land was submitted in 2025.

So pretty much every single use that goes into this building requires a new conditional use permit, 2500 deposit, separate set of plans, business plans, etc.

But with this conditional use permit, it kind of sums everything up.

Um if it's a new proposed use for the building and it's an approved use under the specific lease um list under the conditional use permit, they would not have to go through a completely separate process for each new business that comes in.

Um we would we still review it at a staff level.

For example, if they were to submit a business permit, um actually look at the proposal and make sure that it actually conforms to what the conditional use permit lists itself.

This is a general review of the East County area plan.

Sono downtown.

So in the East County area plan, there are uses already listed as an approved use.

This conditional use permits, um, it is consistent with the general plan, and that they are they're what's being proposed is not outside of the scope of the general plan, um, and it's already uses that's generally allowed by the East County area.

Um, as mentioned before, each use that comes in to SNOL downtown, there are findings specifically that apply to Sonela downtown.

One being that there's no growth inducing impacts of the community.

Um, for example, if there's there's no new developments to the building itself, it's not a completely new building that's being proposed at the subject location.

Um, there are uses that already exist in the building or new businesses like retail service retail, et cetera, that want to go into this building in the future.

And the environment help, one of the major issues I know, or one of the big topics in SONOL in general is the septic, and whether or not these uses could or the existing septic system could hold the capacity of all these new uses, and the environmental health did provide a preliminary approval for the existing uses itself.

So, pretty much all uses that goes into the building are more or less evaluated evaluated today with um its capacity.

Um, and in your package in the staff report as well, the environment of health included those specifical technical details for each breakdown of the use, for example, Aries Barbershop, the gallery of space, and um the retail space.

And there will be no impacts in the road system as these uses already exist in downtown school and they're not new uses outside of what's already permitted in the zoning permit.

Um number four, uh I went over it previously in the slides, these are uses allowed under the East County Area Plan.

Um, and as mentioned before as well, they're not expanding the building, they're not making any physical changes, it's just the uses itself that goes into the specific.

Any uses approved under this conditional use permit, for example, if the new businesses wants to move it tomorrow and they want to make certain improvements to the space, they would still have to go through the condition or the building permit process if they make um physical changes or if they're proposing a new restroom, they would still have to go through environmental health to make sure that the existing capacity or whether or not they need to make uh improvements to the existing septic system.

Um, and number six is generally the recommending that the SONOL review this use conditional use permits.

And if the if the SONOL Citizens Advisory Council does recommend approval to the Board of Supervisors, these listed uses in the conditional use permit would be uh permitted without having to go through a completely new conditional use permit as it's already reviewed under this current.

Um, and number seven is basically essentially saying they're not proposing new commercial uses in a new building.

Um they're proposing um any new uses in the future are within this, will stay within this uh property and within the existing building.

So and staff recommends that the SONO advisory um SNOL Citizens Advisory Council recommend approval of this conditional use permit, PLN 2026 00010 to allow a multi-use rental space within an existing buildings and recommend approval to the Board of Supervisors and staff will um convey both comments from the public and Central Citizens Advisory Council to the Planning Commission during the week.

Um, and I'm available for any, or if you do recommend approval to the board of public supervisors, um, there's a set of conditions in the staff report that's listed that you can comment on, or if you have any recommendations for changes as well.

Um, I'm available for any questions you may have.

Also, the owner Jeff is also in the audience.

If you have more technical questions regarding this condition, permitted.

Thank you.

Uh yeah, I'm I'm not gonna vote on I'm gonna abstain from this vote.

Okay.

Second any questions here.

No questions.

Okay.

So you had your name your hand up or you had your name card in here for a comment.

That's fine.

Um I'm in support um of this interval I'm in support of this um because it streamlines the ability for more businesses to come in um the only thing that I was just sad about was the immediate um you know walk away from Benjamin because he he's got a good voice about what it's like to be uh a tenant of this and I was hoping for him to make some comments about whether he thought this was a good idea even if he doesn't vote um but as a uh member of the community I live very close to this um I think it's a great idea and I support it having sat into the meeting with uh JJ Land owners and Albert Lopez on trying to put together the CUP and that little tiny little retail store that's only 300 square feet and the burden that it placed on on JJ land I thought was just over the top and luckily Albert Lopez was able to work with them on the permitting cost so that was that was good um but I I will add one comment just you know not part of the council not speaking on this just to his point um oh you said it in the in your presentation okay so I would I would move that we recommend approval uh the conditional use permit 2000 um 26 10 one second you have a comment I just have a clarification so in this conditional use permit there's a list that's approved on this condition under the conditional use permit only there's still a larger list of uses under the zoning ordinance that applies to Sonola downtown so pretty much any uses that's not within this list would still have to go through a conditional use a separate conditional use permit if they're proposed within Sonol downtown so this would only apply to this specific building um within this condition yeah and we have on our list in our special district we have things like a veterinarian which would require a major upgrade in the septic system so yeah I would say this abbreviated list is a good list do you have any comments on that yeah so back to your proposal I move okay we recommend approval um PNM PLN 2026-10 and I'll second approved council Harrison okay council Mark McLean approved council member start approach and chair degrange thank you thank you very much okay now you can say something well I was all I was gonna say is he said he already said it I was gonna repeat something you said in your presentation um mary's barber shop put in her conditional use permit of 2022 it's oh for yours good congratulations Carney and congratulations to you okay so we'll go on to 4D discussion and determine the path forward for the wayfinding signs at downtown Sinol.

Oh that's me all right most we have go ahead Tony we got a lot of comments mainly through the Facebook website and I those are all attempts too I don't have Facebook myself so I send you those comments and that sort of thing so yes what we'll do because we have a lot of people we had a lot of comments and so we kind of have a little this is some substantial movement we have the sign out there now and that's what it looks like not right now maybe 12 hours from now would look like that um but uh a lot of comments we had from the way it looks to the signage to the size to the whole thing and so thought I would just take take time now since we have such significant movement on here to kind of run through where we're at on this whole thing.

So in July 2022 um the council here had a listening session where Snowlians expressed what they like about Sunol and uh and what they would like to see improved about downtown.

So Sinoleon said they like Sinnol's uh downtown historic, small, rustic, charming, relaxed, and unique atmosphere.

So Sinoleans said they wanted features that make downtown more pedestrian friendly.

So and and Synoleans said that they wanted improved signage.

So the downtown revitalization uh committee had had a subcommittee to talk specifically about wayfinding signage.

I got roped into being in charge of it.

Um so uh they they worked with we worked with an urban designer to come up with some signage, a local artist, as you can see up there, everybody knows Tom.

Um, and uh there was a lot of thought, a lot of changes, a lot of that went into this design.

So this was the prototype sign, and uh we had the the parameters that we had were um it had to reflect the unique parameters that we gave the sign designer, had to reflect the unique rustic and charming character of Sinnol, had to provide directions to historic and public locations.

We can't use public money to identify commercial businesses, and that was one of the questions that was on there.

So we've kind of gonna address that right now.

It's it's can't use public money.

So, for example, on there it says Elliston.

That's a that's a national historic and the National Historic Registry.

So and it's registered as Elliston.

So we put Elliston on there.

That's that's why that's on the on it that way.

Um, it's also um another comment we had very, very widespread was that it is too small.

You can't you can't read it.

That's we we discussed that, and the reason why that is is these signs are not designed for cars, they're designed for pedestrians.

This is part of the downtown revitalization.

So it's to it's for wayfinding for people on bicycles, people on pushing strollers, people walking across.

You can see the lower right-hand corner of that right there.

There's a crosswalk going across.

This is to direct pedestrians, not people driving by in cars.

So that's why the script uh that's why the signage is is designed the way it is.

Another one was oh my gosh, it's so small.

I can't, you know, like well, they just put it that way for public viewing.

There's sandbags around the bottom of it.

Um, so when they went, they want a lower center of gravity so the wind wouldn't blow it over.

When it gets installed, it'll be you know installed in the ground and probably about two feet higher.

So um, and then um the commenters also we had a lot of commentation, and this is probably the biggest one, um, other than the size uh of uh of this being too small.

We have addressed that with it being for pedestrians, but commenters brought up the issue that there are too many signs at the location of the prototype sign, the intersection of Main Street, and these signs uh might these signs might appear to be garish and unnecessary.

Um, they are not in keeping up with the character of the Sinolean's value.

So people were saying it's very busy.

You look at the the wayfinding sign there, but then you look behind, and there's a sign for uh a place that's not in business anymore, and then there's the white fence, and it's got all these signs on there.

So um, not in keeping with the character of the Sinolean's value, the signs may not even meet the county side or sign ordinance.

So we wanted to propose that we're gonna remove all the clutter in the area so it looks like Synol cares about the downtown, maybe remove all the boundaries banners and the non-county signs um so that we see how it how that how that wayfinding sign can look and let Sinoleans see what it may look like without all the the noise behind it.

Um that kind of that kind of encapsulates all the comments we got, um, mostly around the size of the size of the sign being too small, but that's addressed.

It's not for cars, it's for pedestrians, and then the amount of clutter that's behind there, all the all the signage kind of it looks like a NASCAR, and so we want to maybe see what that's gonna look like.

Um cleaning that all up and then let it go for another month and see what people think and see if you know their opinions change.

Um Connie, did you have anything to add to that that you wanted to throw on there?

Or so um code enforcement will look at it too.

We've been working very closely with code enforcement to make sure that our sign met all the requirements, and so they'll be coming out to look at it and and I'm sure they'll notice all the other signs that don't meet code.

I agree with you, man.

We don't, you know, we're gonna have an IP view call it downtown.

Should have some character and some you know um character, we don't need the big signs and the big, I know we got advertising all that stuff, but it's got to be a point.

Yeah, and I get it's gonna be unpopular, but um, I think the Synoleans as a whole, as as a as at large, I think everybody who's got a sign up there has an has it has uh you know interest in that in that sign, right?

But the community as a whole expressed they want a clean, organized downtown Synol that looks like we care, represents the values, the rustic nature, the the old school nature, the history.

So that's why it's got a it's got a the big uh water water tower on there is a silhouette.

So that's why we we've done that on there.

So um anyway.

So we're proposing that code enforcement McConnie's work, we will come down, look at the sign, look at our sign.

That was part of the delay, the sign took so long is because we went through code, got it all done all the way it was supposed to get done, and uh we're gonna give it another month, and then what we can do is kick this can down the road until the May meeting, and then hopefully we can get that clear area cleaned up and then let folks see what it looks like, and then we can uh have another round of commenting um and go from there.

But the main thing I've I've not to repeat myself, but the folks talking about how small it is, which we heard, but everybody said they really like the sign, too small.

It's it's for people, not for cars.

So if you hear anybody, I don't have Facebook, so any of you guys that do or hear the comments.

That's that's what a lot of the stuff that was on those comments.

We talked about in the subcommittee.

We talked about this, we talked about the size of the water.

It was funny to see that because like they were in there's like they were in the meeting there at the subcommittee.

They brought up all the same stuff we did.

It was pretty interesting.

But uh that's it.

Well, there was one question about the script, the font on there.

That was because we enlisted um the designer, you know, just you know, they use this kind of this this new modern font, and he said that's not so null.

They try to come up with a font that represents the old school kind of script nature that things used to be back in the day.

So that's why the font is on there in that particular that that particular style.

So a lot of thought went into it, and uh, we're excited that it's here.

Sorry it took so long, there's a bunch of different reasons, but um hopefully we can uh you know get get some of the clutter cleaned up there and then if booked a second chance to look at it and if everything looks good, we'll uh order three more and get them in the other spots and call it a day.

Good job.

We want other stuff.

So I got anybody questions.

I think we have some comments.

Andrew, you have a comment?

Yeah, do you mind leaving the sign back that picture up there?

That was really informative.

Oh, I know you gonna time me.

I got it.

Well, that was really informative, Benjamin, to show us that sign and because one of the things that stuck out to me when I just looked at that, Bosco's Roadhouse has no, we don't have a we don't have a way to say that some a business who's left should take their sign down, right?

I'm not speaking, I'm speaking to the chair.

Sorry, I was just referring to the fact that I was a very informative picture.

And and that, yes, I also as per somebody who puts up banners on behalf of the business guild or on behalf of all kinds of um things that we do in this town.

Um, yeah, I think we need to come up to the to the end of what Graham Starred said, which was um, hey, we need to decide what we are and what we look like, and uh some of these things should not be infinitely put up.

Maybe they're up there for an event, maybe they're out of there.

Maybe we're a little more defining about where those go.

But I think that was just so informative to me.

What I just saw, and I said, Well, that's not good.

I was obviously on the committee, I was part of this.

I'm supporting the program.

It would be nice to see it in its real form as opposed to, well, this is not really the prototype because we couldn't do it right because we'd like to all see what it really looks like.

But yeah, I'm really with you.

Uh clean it all up behind it, follow the the the you know recommendations.

The one thing I would ask is who's your sample size of who you are um are asking.

And if you want to do a survey through uh informed Synol, I'd be I'd be uh pleased to put that survey out.

And we do have a way to survey the community and to get results.

Um thank you for the report.

This is valuable, but yeah, clean it up because oh my god.

Okay, but next time fill out a card, okay?

Okay, well, I didn't realize we were gonna that it was gonna be this.

All I was gonna say was the sign looks really nice, actually.

And if you guys are gonna adopt the policy for hanging stuff on that fence, it might be a good idea to to allow nonprofits and and uh you know, if you don't want people advertising their business, that's one thing.

But the 4 H pancake breakfast, uh you know, the the different things that the community does.

Uh it could include you know, services at the church, special services, things of that sort.

Uh and people shouldn't forget that we're a farming town, we're a country town, ranching town, and you can go to any town out in the valley, small town, and look, and they got those kind of signs hanging on the fences of the schools and the public parks and things.

Thank you.

But the sign looks nice, Bill.

Thank you.

It might be helpful to get code enforcement to come and talk about the sign.

Kelly, do you have a comment?

That's it.

Yeah, I I don't know anything about um art or or or uh signs and stuff.

So it's completely amateur.

But the um with getting the idea of getting rid of all the signs, you know, I I just get rid of most of them, but then everybody can take a turn and you and businesses or who or on uh or organizations, so whoever can get a chance to put up their sign as needed, different rotate, whatever everybody has a whatever, but uh you know, and maybe some people are just don't make the cut and we'll never get up there, but uh that's how it works, you know.

Just I I uh so if it's all blank, then you aren't getting your advertising in.

And then uh the the on the this sign, the new sign.

Um I th it I just I didn't I couldn't read it, but it looked fine.

Um but I uh my idea is that the sign's fine, but it's too crowded, and it's got the the letters blah blah blah blah, all the same play.

But so it and it's easy to fix all you all you do is uh take that sign, make make uh three signs out of it.

So you put the the things that are on that end of town on this sign over there, and only has a few things on it.

So instead of buying one sign, you buy three, you buy more signs, and each sign is mostly blank.

You put in more blank space, a lot of blank space, and then a few things, and then it's over here and then here, and then each sign is pretty, and and each sign is not too crowded.

We actually discussed that.

It's gonna everything it's gonna shock you to hear this, everything you guys bring up, and I appreciate it because it makes it like our conversation we've had months ago were worth it.

That sign, how many can it hold?

I think the prototype we we're gonna put the prototype only had three three arrows on it, but we decided, you know what, let's load it up so people can see what it looks like loaded up, and they can come off and on pretty easy.

So um more signs, but each one not too crowded.

Thank you very much for that.

Okay, so we'll see you next month.

Talk about it again next month.

Can't wait.

Okay, let's go on to four E.

How well we followed up on our recommendations or camouflage.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

So um my name is Michael Fleming.

I'm with Alamania County Planning Department.

I was here last month for uh the the item right after this one, which was uh is this a cell tower.

Um and what was brought to my attention, which truthfully was not aware of it because I don't come out here too often, was um that the cell towers in this area you've been asking for camouflage for all of them for some time, and that some towers have been getting camouflage done for them, and some I don't and many of them have not and conditions of approval, yeah.

Yeah, uh yeah, yeah.

So um so in any event, um give me one second.

So on this, I know it's a little hard to read, um, but I I can go over pretty quickly.

Um so identified through Connie was um nine sites that um were in question of whether or not they they followed through with their conditions of approval, and so um I went through um the all nine sites to identify the PLN number that went with the site based on the address and other information that we had uh received for it, um, and identified the the request from this this condition of approval, and and then we between me and Damien Curry, we may know um we figured out which ones followed through with it on which ones did not.

Um make sure that they have not followed it.

Uh or make sure that this information is correct, and if they have not followed it, then they're going to cite these facilities for um not following their conditions of approval, and um we will get something going on getting them to fix these sites.

Um there's one other site on here that um the the Kill and 2022 00125 site.

Um one of the problems with that's well, the main that site um which we put no changes on here, may no changes have been made due to the fact that there's three co-located carriers on it, all with independent expiration dates, and it's gonna be very hard to get them all together to agree on anything or to do anything about it because they're all independent.

So with the exception of that one, um the other four care the other four sites on here that are in yellow um will be referred to code enforcement um or not following their conditions of approval.

Um mainly um the fifth uh five seven eighty mission road, they were supposed to have an oak tree or monopine, they did not.

The 11640 um pleasant sonoral, they're supposed to have a pine tree monopine, they did not.

The 9464 Pleasant Simpson rule, they were supposed to have a faux tree um or um some height reduction approved with paint to match, they did not.

And the uh 7820 Valcias Road, they're or requested a slide defense around the generator and landscaping requested, and they did not.

The rest of the sites, um well, the other two sites on here, yes.

They obviously they did fulfill their um their conditions of approval.

Um this one, the 5764 mission road, it says um this did not go under under undergo CSD approval, it says it's incomplete with additional trees.

Uh if there's any further follow-up on this, I did include with you, which I believe you you had already gotten the packet of all the information of this the basically the resolutions and the most current up-to-date plans or photographs of the site, which I gave you one more copy of today just in case it didn't get to you, but um according to admin staff that had got you uh last week.

Um there's any more follow-up that you want to do, feel free to email me personally or Rodrigo.

Um, but um you can go write to me if you want.

I'm gonna be the liaison for this project between me and Damien.

We're gonna figure out how to get these things in within compliance.

So today is really just the first step of doing that.

Um trust me, it did take a little bit of effort to produce this list and figure out what's going on.

So um as with that being said, um, do you have any questions?

I do.

So the code enforcement guy goes out in the next 30 days.

I I and then well, I mean, I'm just what's so what's so when will I see well?

When will I see a result?

I I don't know exactly.

I can if you follow up with me, I can give you an exact amount of time, but I don't know how code I don't work for code enforcement.

No, but he step one, and then you get a contact, then you gotta contact the companies, they've already blown us off once or twice, whatever, you know, and so how it's supposed to how code enforcement work.

They go out there, they take their photos, they issue a letter saying that if you don't comply within 10 days or respond within 10 days, we will start to find you.

Ah, yes.

And what are we talking?

I mean, I don't know what the fines are, but they're they're they they start off small and they get large as they go on for that condition of approval.

We're gonna name the fine.

Well, uh no, but if I have a big huge multi-millionaire company, I got a few dollar fine, I'm not gonna care about that.

Yeah, but the fines do they do ratchet up.

Okay, they do ratchet up.

I mean uh uh figure I I don't know that they get up that they do get to thousands.

I don't know if they get tens of thousands because I I don't I don't know if they go that far.

I've only seen fines go up into maybe a $2,500 fine after a year of not responding or something.

I don't know.

I don't I we if you follow up with me, I can ask Ed personally how it's gonna how it's all gonna work.

And we can play it all out and tell you exactly how it's gonna work.

Um, but yeah, we are we are interested in getting you guys satisfied with your cell um issues out here.

Another question, the four that are highlighted, are those all the same owner.

Uh um give me one second.

I think right, copy list of the owners.

I may be there what the other one had a list, I think on them.

Let me see here.

Yeah, we didn't get a copy of attachment for either.

Yeah, let me see here.

Yeah, I'm I'm I'm not able to tell you that.

I don't think they're all the same though.

Let it can you bring bring it up?

Yeah, could you click on that link?

I do believe that at least one or some of them are the same owner.

There's really only three main carriers out here, so there's probably some overlap.

Um the gentleman that spoke online at last month's meeting in regards to asking for the conditional the um the CUP CUP, uh did make mention of I think some other site of his that did need attention.

I and I don't know whether it was plural or singular.

So is that the names there?

I put the carriers on it when I listed our container.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that's where I was looking for.

I didn't I couldn't have access to it here.

The carriers aren't the input to the tower.

It's it's a private person who then rents rents the tower to the carrier.

They're leasing the space from the owner of the tower.

Right.

Yeah, so yeah, that's that's an that's been an important thing because a lot of the Sonola citizens have thought that you know, wow, these these carriers, we gotta go after these carriers.

It's not that they're the carriers, they're renting the space from the tower owner.

Yeah, but the owner of the carrier.

A lot of them are a lot of the putting something up.

No, it's it it's the owner of the tower.

Yeah, not that not the cell phone company, not owns that tower, yeah.

It's responsible.

A lot of them are owned by Crown Council out here.

Yes, perfect.

I I remember Crown mentioning that.

There was other one American tower, I think that owns some needed attention, yeah.

Um let's talk about the one at 11640 Pleasant and Sinnel Road.

Uh yeah, we uh yeah.

Um I think I just heard you say that three carriers on it, yeah, and so it would be too difficult to get them to all agree.

Um that is but uh but here you're talking about the carriers don't do it, it's the owner.

The owner of that facility consistent.

Okay, so I it sounds inconsistent, and I'll explain why it makes sense because the only time we have any um then the C UPs come in, they're all based on the carrier.

You get what I'm saying, and so each of those carriers has an independent C UP.

Yes, they don't own the tower, but the the tower doesn't have the C UP.

It's the it's the the Verizon, the ATT.

So we don't have like a specific CUP just for the tower company.

Do you know now if if the tower company was had maybe one carrier, it might be it'd be a different story because we could go after both at the same time.

You get what I'm saying?

But in this case, there would be a tower owner, and then there would be three independent CUPs that all have rights to be on that tower that all would have to pay for their own camouflage independent or work together to do it.

So um I don't want to give any promises for this particular site.

Um I can look into it further.

You can follow up with me on that particular site.

I know that's of interest.

Um that's why I came to this being prepared to for something to say about that particular site.

Um, but um one thing that can be possibly done is when the next when the next operator comes in for a CUP, maybe we can have them round it up the rest of them and go after them at that particular time.

Uh other than that, um, I mean, these these tower these I don't know.

site I know that's of interest um that's why I came to us being prepared to for something to say about that particular site um but um one thing that can be possibly done is when the next when the next operator comes in for a CUP maybe we can have them round it up the rest of them and go after them at that particular time uh other than that um I mean these these tower these I don't it's gonna be a challenge to me it's you know again protect me if I'm wrong it it's going too deep whoever's applying for the C UP it's just on them and they can go deal with their leasers or whoever hey you you guys have part of this they're making us do this who whoever names that's what I'm saying that's what I'm saying when when it comes in like for the for the expiration's over comes in again we can attack it then yeah you know and that's for the same thing every single time it's not like we're gonna say in 2022 we want a camouflage and then 2023 we're not gonna ask for it no no no no I no I understand so there was no camouflage request on those three none of those three towers no no no there's one flager cast on all these towers yeah so they what's the problem the one up there 11640 we asked for an oak tree and when that was sent on to the next step um e C BA warning adjustments it that request was not in that proposal yeah let me go so it wasn't even forwarded on to the next step back to my other slide because it's hard for me to follow on this one yeah my my battery's running so um you need a hard copy uh no no I I can give her a copy of the PowerPoint so here entire presentation after this here here's the PowerPoint just go to the PowerPoint and go to the slide detail but that's a camouflage thank you for coming thank you did you have something to add to that while we're reading all right we're there um I don't oh yes sometimes these carriers they don't always hire the same vendors as well so let's say T Mobile Verizon and dish wireless are on the same tower but each carrier they hire their own vendors to do edit their modifications.

It's not directly those carriers themselves handling these sometimes we're dealing with three carriers with three separate vendors every single time they propose a modification so we have to run down each vendor that they choose um in order to get them to compliance it's not just like a single so what we're doing now we're gonna go after the tower owner themselves so that way there's one entity where we're setting one layer layer to and one fine suit and then that owner will carry that to the carriers and have that performed that's it.

Thank you.

So what I was getting at is all right so uh what was the last the last one you brought up the 114640 pleasant and snow roof um 125 and 257 the yellow one or the white one um I put it on my list but we didn't get a copy hard copy of our my list I think it was the first one uh is it the one that was that we want to water tank an oak tree yep I think so not sure but I think so um so that's the one that that was the one with all the carriers on it that's gonna be difficult that we're gonna need to do some follow up we didn't have an answer for you tonight um with what we'll say hopefully we'll we can do um which the code enforcement will go out there and um cite them for not following the their conditions of approval and then um um and then when they come back to us to say how can we comply so we don't get fined then we can come back to you or let you know that they're gonna be fixed or or how we're gonna follow yeah yeah we'd like you to come back yeah that I do believe Connie you have my email you can always Rodrigo or Christine green who's my

Um with what we'll say, hopefully we'll do um which the code enforcement will go out there and um cite them for not following the their conditions of approval, and then um and then when they come back to us to say how can we comply so we don't get fined, then we can come back to you or let you know that they're gonna be fixed or or how we're gonna follow up.

Yeah, yeah, we'd like you to come back.

Yeah, uh I do believe Connie, you have my email.

You can always CC Rodrigo or Christine Green, who's my supervisor, or reach out to me directly.

Does that or Damon Curry is also helped them produce this list?

So any of us would be helpful as far as following up in the future.

Um we take this seriously.

You know, I like I said, when I came out here before, I felt very naive because I didn't know this was a problem.

Um sometimes communication, the planning department doesn't go as good as we hope.

And so we're trying to mend a fence here.

So then the one on 11640 is that's what I look at every single day, all day long for my house.

So I'm not gonna let it die.

Okay, that's fine.

That's fine.

And we say the same thing every time.

So I would like also to have a get a commitment from you that when you do not, not you, but specifically, but when your department doesn't forward any of our recommendations or requests to the next level that you let us know.

Um because we expect them to go to be no character.

They generally always do that's standard policy, but um I can let the planning department know.

Okay, and I know we're holding your feet to the fire, but I would love a time frame, an approximation time frame from the moment they're cited to potentially getting camouflage.

Yes, I have no idea.

I'll ask somebody.

I don't know.

But I need to find out.

I can't ask, I can't give you an answer right now.

Yeah, I'm coming for so for 11.

Um 11640 pleasantness and no roads.

So in our staff report to the East BCA, we included your comments to recommend recommend um a modification to a full tower or lower into ground level.

So it looks like in the board did not approve that modification, so they approved it without um any request to modify it.

No, the east the eight county board is only east county boards.

Okay.

Well, there's two of it, it's listed twice, and one of them that Damian Curry worked on, did not include any of our requests.

So the other one might have that's the one you're looking at.

He was looking at the one that you're talking about, which let me just double check.

Yeah, I know.

I know.

Let me just check your list.

You're talking about the 125 one, right?

Um I don't know if it could confirm.

Yeah, I'd have a 25.

Okay.

Okay, that's the one you're concerned with, correct?

Yes, okay.

That's what you're telling me.

Well, um it's on my concerns list.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

It's clear on the concerns list that it did not get forwarded.

Okay, okay.

Well, okay.

Uh your your recommendation was included in the staff report presented to the East County board of zoning adjustments, but they voted to not request any modifications.

Okay, well, we can follow up with them.

Follow up on it.

I'm just reading off the the actual resolution.

I don't see any okay, because I I looked at it.

I hope it's not the first.

Oh without our amendment.

Yeah, they approved.

Didn't include it.

Oh, yeah.

That's BSO here.

Just okay.

So you're coming back.

Uh no, you're you're coming back.

Not coming back ever again.

Not going to approve to come back.

I'm approved to for you to follow up, send me as many emails as you want.

And I will follow up with you.

Even if it's each and every one of you sends me an email, I will follow up with the emails and I will get your answers, but I'm not coming back to that.

I've been approved for extra time to come here.

Okay.

Dr.

Rabico.

Okay.

Okay.

No problem.

Uh we have any more questions on this.

Nope.

We're ready to go on to the next item.

On the next slide.

Okay.

Um, if you that same PowerPoint with the yellow on it, go to the very first slide on that.

Please.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

Okay.

So this is the last item tonight.

This is uh PLN 2025 00153 initial use permit to allow continued operation of a telecommunication uh renewal of 2014 00134 of our T Mobile Carrier.

This site is not expired yet, so it is their lease.

Their initial use permit is still good till uh September 2026.

Um the um applicant owner to the owner is uh Joseph Kimbrough and the list of skate crust and air joy et al its applicant is a global signal acquisitions uh C L C and uh representative Jacob Hamilton.

Uh it's at 5764 Mission Road, uh 096 0056008-14.

That's exempt from CEQA existing facilities.

Uh next slide, please take uh here's a site here is to the north of 680.

Uh is the zoning is agricultural, it's in the East County Area Plan Resource Management.

Um next slide, please.

Um, so last month um SONOL CAC um voted five zero continues to next month hearing because they wanted to see uh two possible camouflage options, which I do have.

Uh next slide.

Um just site plan.

We're familiar with the site, so next slide.

Uh this is uh up close site plan.

Um next slide.

Uh this is how the tower looks and just uh plan uh view.

Uh next slide.

Uh this is the antennas, there's four antennas.

Next slide.

Um this is the coverage map on the on the left side is without the site.

On the right side is with the site.

As you can see on the right side, there's more green in the circle area.

Um next slide.

Um, this is the site as it stands today.

Uh next slide.

Uh uh closer up to the equipment area.

Uh next slide.

Uh just a different side of the view.

Uh next slide.

Uh another viewpoint.

Next slide.

Uh these are the two other or two other carriers up there, which are ATT and Verizon, which are on similar parts of that hill.

Uh, next slide.

This is one camouflage.

This is the faux foilage option, which is uh simulates ivy, and they have ivy socks that go on the antennas.

If you go to the next slide, it shows from a distance.

It's kind of hard to tell, but uh I did give you a PowerPoint um uh to your desk there.

If you want to look at it a little closer to see what it looks like from before, it basically makes it look like some bushes and tree or something.

Uh it does look a lot better than it did.

Uh the next option is the next slide.

This is the green slash option.

Don't like the option, that's okay.

Uh wanted to give you two options.

Um, and this is green slats with green paint.

You go to the first one.

The first one home run.

Yeah, okay.

Next slide.

This is that from a distance.

Okay, um, go to the very next slide, please.

And skip the slide.

We are you on this one?

Okay, um staff recommends that the synolysis and advisory council recommend approval of the conditional use permit PLN 2025 00153, the Almanac County Board of Supervisors, the planning department staff will convey the synolysis advisory council recommendations of the East County Board of Zoning Adjustments during their deliberations on this item to allow continued operation of existing telemedications facility renewal of PLN 2014 00134 for T Mobile Carrier based on drawings exhibit A, which are the planned exhibit B is that full foilage one that you like.

So that's put right in here.

So we're basing off that.

And uh should the SNOL citizens and advisory council recommend approval application conditions of approval in the draft resolution, which you have in the staff report.

Um if there's any other ums or questions or concerns, please let me know.

I have a question.

Uh when is this uh permit currently uh expiring?

September uh 26.

Expires in September uh uh 24 2026.

Okay, so about four months from now.

Yep.

So um so they're they're okay with the straight renewal.

They're not this isn't coming as a new site.

This is a straight renewal, but they are willing to do these changes for you.

Um so how far in advance of that expiration date are we able to uh provide approval and they still have time to get their permit?

Jacob Hamilton is on the line.

We should ask him that.

I don't know how the actual how long it's gonna take for them to do the camouflage, for instance.

Um he is online because he's on hello.

Hello.

Hi, so the question how long it will take to actually is the question how long it will take to get the work done.

Yes.

So I'm not sure, Michael, if we need a building permit to perform these upgrades or not.

That would be the only question.

If we don't, I think we had included what was it, 120 days time in the application, and that should give us time to bid the project um by the material, but uh I'm gonna have no back on the building permit issue.

Uh yeah, I don't think so.

I don't I don't know.

I don't it's it's like painting a house.

I mean, do you need a building house?

I mean uh yeah, we should it's netting that yeah.

I mean, the question I have is is why can't we see a a finished product before approval?

Why is it always conditional?

The conditionals haven't seemed to hold up.

And before we confirm it.

Well, from our perspective right now, we couldn't do it because that's not the design that was approved on the current permit.

Once that is approved, then now that's the permit going forward that allows us to perform those upgrades and is what we're required to do to match the new permit.

So currently we are operating above board on what the current design that approved is approved, but there's no reason we can't proceed prior to that expiration.

If we approve it now, we can move forward with the project.

In other words, we don't have to wait till September to perform um the upgrades.

I guess that the concern of the confusion that I I have on this whole subject matter is um if in my business I'm ever looking for a permit of some sort, and and I had requested and received permission in prior times with conditions, and I did not meet those conditions.

I would certainly go back and meet those prior conditions before asking for a new condition, uh a new approval.

But but there wasn't conditions before that said this had to be camouflaged to my knowledge, but on these other sites, there was other sites, but those that you can't expect him to hold up to what other sites are doing.

Some of them are his sites, yeah.

But they're not mine personally independent application.

I mean, it's all they're all they have to be treated independently.

I know I know you have there's a consensus that there's a problem out here, but we have to treat each site independently.

We can try to make vast changes to all of them in general, but the this site isn't a problem actor, you know.

Um, and then also they're not they're not gonna they're not gonna go ahead and do this ahead of an approval.

They need an approval to allow to allow them to do it.

It's like you're not gonna build a house and then ask for approval after the house is built.

You need approval to to say, okay, they approved it now.

We can build it.

They're not gonna spend money if they don't know they're gonna get to keep it.

Okay, so let me Jacob, if I can ask you a question that are any of these other sites that this board was told, this council was told would have um camouflage.

On in are any of these other sites that this board was told, this council was told would have camouflage.

Uh were any of them agreed upon in the same exact manner that we're currently speaking of with you today, tonight that you were responsible for, and and those did not get followed through.

Not that I'm aware of.

Okay, and we would have uh it would have gone through this process, and we would be having the same discussion and would be held accountable to complete those upgrades.

I can't speak on behalf of what happened with those other sites.

Does that happen?

Obviously, it does, but I know the sites that we bring before the boards and before the planning commission, there's an expectation that we perform those upgrades, and we do there are delays from time because equipment, you know.

Let's say it's a custom piece of equipment that's a stealth particular type of branch, particular piece of uh bark that only comes from one company.

If they're taking a long time, then yeah, there can be delays, but we're always real clear with the planning department when that's the case and why and when we expect to get it.

Um, those delays do happen, but we certainly, at least on my sites, we don't just drop it and move on.

Okay, so I guess what I would request for future is I'd kind of like to know who the bad actors are uh for prior conditional approvals that didn't follow through, so that I've got a personal list of who they are, so the next time they ask for conditional use, I know how to vote.

That's what I would like.

Are you looking for names of individuals or companies, or were you looking for I get I guess the name of who is gonna be asking for that next permit?

Well, the the problem is is that a lot at least what I've found is that um some people a lot of people move around in the there's a lot of uh people that work for them for a short amount of time that move on to something else or go to another place to do cell work or something.

So if I mean, even in this site in particular, it started with one name.

I'm working with Jacob Hamilton now.

I mean, it's gonna be hard to chase down the individual.

You could go after the company, is what I'm getting at because the company is stay around, but the individual workers for the companies don't always stick around.

Talking about the owner, the co company.

Okay, that that's all castle, yeah.

Yeah, that's what I'll kind of hammer down exactly what you're asking.

Yeah, I mean, if it's Crown Castle that is a habitual uh you know, promiser and not deliverable, then I just know how I'll vote on Crown Castles.

That's all.

So if I had a list of those names, I'd appreciate it.

All right.

Any other comments or questions?

No, every single cell phone tower in the future.

We're always gonna request you come back and present.

And that's fine.

That's fine on me.

I'll just come back out here.

I don't live that far away.

I live in I live in San Lorenzo, so it's not that bad.

Okay.

So shall we have a motion that we recommend approval conditional on the permit require including the camouflage option?

Option B.

B.

Right, yeah.

I'll second that.

Well, option option exhibit B.

Exhibit B.

Which I labeled as that option of the full foliage.

Full foliage.

I can't say it.

There's much foliage.

Oh full full foliage.

I'll try better next time.

Okay.

So I will second that motion.

Yeah.

Councilmember Conan.

Approved.

Council Member Harrison.

Approved.

Council member McLean.

Approved.

Council Member.

Approved.

Approved.

Thank you for my apologies, Andrew.

I didn't call you to make a comment on it.

I'm getting tired.

Okay, minutes.

Motion we approve.

Second.

I'll second that.

Council member Connor.

Approve.

Council Member Harrison.

Approve.

Council Member McLean.

Approved.

Council Member Start.

Approved.

Chair the Grange.

Approved.

Motion passed.

Okay.

We are item six, adjournment.

We are adjourned.

Oh mine.

I don't know what to do about this.