Today is Saturday, August 9th, 2025.

It is 8:32 a.m.

So I'll call the meeting to order.

First thing on the agenda work session reports item AID 242619 superport discussion and give staff direction regarding the fiscal year 2025-26 City Manager proposed budget capital improvement program and five-year financial forecasts.

Good morning.

Good morning, Mayor and Council.

Christine Taylor's louder.

Oh, there's music play.

You can keep going.

We can hear okay.

Hold on.

If you'll just pull that background slide down then.

Okay, sorry.

We are all happy that you're here this morning on a Saturday to go over the city manager's proposed budget.

The budget is a very important financial plan and policy tool.

As you can tell from the well-attended meeting by our team, a lot of work has gone into this budget.

Every director, every department, the budget team, and I just want to give a special thanks to the budget team led by Matt Hamilton and Seth Harrell.

They have done a lot of work pulling this together so we can be here today.

So for our agenda today, we're going to briefly go through our budget process and structure, go through our assumptions for the general fund, talk about our tax rate.

We have some general fund assumptions to go through, some operating decisions for the general fund budget, and then we'll move into our internal service funds, go over our special revenue funds, briefly cover the capital budget, and then talk about the next steps on the way to budget adoption in September.

So this slide briefly covers what our budget process looks like.

It is a year-round process.

When our fiscal year begins in October, people are spending, we are closing out the prior year, and then before you know it, we are kicking off for the next next budget year again in January.

Our budget is worked on by our department directors, looking at revenues, their operating budgets in the early spring, and then we begin the process of having the conversations with council through the summer to submitting that proposed budget to you all on July 31st, having our budget workshop, setting the tax rate, adopting the budget, and then doing it all over again, starting on Offical Mund.

So this year was filled with a couple challenges.

So we changed our methodology and strategy going in 2025, uh 2425, and then looking at 2526.

When our department started their budget process this year, we started with a zero-based budgeting methodology, meaning that all budget all spending was justified from a zero base, regardless of past allocations.

This uh process actually ended us up with some higher expenses as we right-sized overtime, looked at where spending maybe need to be reallocated.

And then on top of the zero-based budgeting, we did we asked key questions of our departments to look at their programs and the services they're providing.

These questions were are we duplicating any efforts or resources?

Are there activities we should no longer be doing?

And where can we improve our existing services?

In addition, as we were in the current fiscal year and started to see uh that we were going to have a forecasted gap in our current year budget, we implemented a managed vacancy program, meaning we were freezing existing vacant positions, focusing on data, and focusing on our frontline and our public safety positions.

This managed vacancy uh resulted in about three million dollars in salary savings in the current year, and we have the same projection moving into next year, meaning that program was successful, and we'll continue to do it in the next fiscal year.

In addition, one additional strategy that we utilized that was new is we implemented a budget task force.

This was compiled of a uh cross-disciplined team throughout the city who took a look at all the recommended reductions.

Uh, was able to give a different lens perspective on what are we doing, what makes the most sense, and a really unified together on the recommendation recommendations you're seeing went through a really uh good look from that budget task force.

So, with all of that, what we hoped to achieve through that strategy methodology was improved financial health in the city, enhance strategic alignment, and increased transparency and accountability with how we are reporting.

Uh this slide is a quick overview on our budget structure.

We utilize a fund accounting, and that's help explains how you see the budget in the formats that you do.

Our budget is structured and guided by governmental accounting principles, and our goals to demonstrate compliance with legal and regulatory restrictions.

So the major funds that you'll see today are we have the general fund, our other major funds include debt service, our utility funds.

Today we'll discuss our special revenue funds that are dedicated for a special purpose, such as catalyst sustainability streets.

And then we have our internal service funds that support the operations of the city, including technology services, fleet, our health insurance fund, our customer service, and environmental services.

So going into next year, here are the financial assumptions that you'll see as part of the forecast.

We are estimating for 2526 a 4.62% increase over the prior year over our estimated 2425 growth.

And then beyond in the forecast, we're doing a 5% growth for the out years.

For our property tax, our total certified praised value this year was $22.7 billion.

This does represent a 7% growth over the prior year.

And a component of that, our new value added added $600 million, which was a 50% decrease from the prior year.

One additional note of change from the prior year, our forecast is including that we will collect 98.5% of that property tax.

In a prior year, it was a little higher, so we brought that down forecasting now.

Additionally, why we have fund balances, why are they important to the city?

The city currently holds the second highest rating, the double AA plus bond rating, which is important to our city as we go out and have sell debt, have bond programs.

So for the general fund, the targeted fund balance is between 20 and 25 percent.

And in our proprietary funds, there is a two components.

We have a working capital target and then an operating reserve target.

The chart indicates for each of those funds what those target reserves are.

We want to call out that we have two of the funds that will fall below fund balance.

Um 2526, but our policy requires for any fund that does fall below that you have a plan to get that back to those minimum targets within five years.

So for the general fund, we do uh forecast that we will fall below fund balance in 2526, but be brought back up that next year, and electric will fall below fund balance in that prior year and be back up within that five-year time frame for FY29.

Compensation and benefits.

So included in the budget this year, we are not proposing any cost of living or merit adjustments for non-civil service employees.

As part of meet and confer our public safety employees that were eligible and meet the requirements, will receive their step increases at those regular intervals throughout the year.

Uh, the city manager did meet with both of those associations as we are going through the budget process to talk about the no cost of living and the no merit.

On our health insurance side for employees, uh, the city contribution will be increasing by a little over two percent.

Uh, bringing the which is higher higher than the prior year, reading that we will pay 1,331 dollars per employee.

That is the city side of the contribution.

And as employees go through open enrollment and the fall, based on plan changes, their uh their contributions can change.

So if an employee likes to go from a high dental to a low, they may see a decrease versus white versus uh vice versa.

If they want to move from a low plan to a high, they may see an increase on their uh pay plan.

Our budget includes assumptions for our retirement contributions.

This rate is set by TMRS.

This is the second year that we have seen a decrease, which is a good thing.

The rate is decreasing from 18.88% to 18.6%, and fire pension it remains aligned with TMRS.

This savings uh this change represented a savings of about 400,000 citywide.

So, along with our compensation and benefits, we do have a couple schedule changes that are being proposed.

Our administrative offices would are being proposed to go from to a four and a half day work week, meaning administrative offices in the city would close at noon.

And this is proposed to be piloted starting in October.

This is a pilot program, so we will collect information throughout the year, how's this working, what type of challenges or feedback are we receiving, and we'll reevaluate next budget process.

Do you want to call out this is something we are seeing in the Metroplex?

Do you want to call out this is something we are seeing in the Metroplex, several of our neighboring cities follow this four and a half work week?

Flower Mound, Lewisville, Corinth.

So we're we're excited to pilot it and see how that goes for our employees and our residents.

Additionally, the fire department held a vote, and their schedule will be moving to a 4896 schedule.

They're currently on a 2448 schedule.

And this is tentative to go into effect in January.

All right, moving into our tax rate.

These are just a couple definitions.

We have the no new revenue rate, which is our operation and maintenance portion of the tax rate needed to raise essentially the same maintenance and operation revenue as the prior year.

Then we also calculate the voter approval tax rate, which limits operations and maintenance portion of the tax rate to increase 3.5% over the prior year.

On this next slide, we have a chart just demonstrating the changes in our tax rate over the last couple years.

And at the bottom, we are showing our proposed tax rate shows no change to the operation and maintenance component of it, and a one cent increase on the debt service side with the proposed rate at 0.595420.

You can see below that we are not at the ceiling of the voter approved rate, but we are it is higher than the no new revenue.

With the proposed rate, this is what it will look like for residents.

We have two things going here.

So we've got a comparison showing in 2526, the average home value was 378, 379,000, and this year values, our average homestead in Denton is 386,698 dollars.

So there's an increase in the value and then a one cent increase on the debt side.

These two changes to the tax rate estimate to result in an annual increase in our residential tax bill of 84 dollars for the city's portion of the tax rate, which equates to $7.

To further break down on the debt side of the tax rate, there are several factors that go into how that debt is calculated and what's influencing it.

So we wanted to break out to show that part of the debt rate is comprised of prior certificates of obligation and bond programs, and then break out and show what portion of the debt rate is from the 2023 bond program.

So it's important to know that this rate is influenced by several things.

What is our taxable value growth, market rates, our bond issuance schedule, how we're issuing the program, projects within the 2023 program.

How are we doing on CO issuance?

Did we issue more or less?

And refunding and refinancing.

So that tax rate for the bond program does include the first two years of the 2023 program, and we still anticipate that new rate to remain under what was presented to city council and to the bond committee from 2023 through the life of the program.

This chart is just a quick overview of where we fall on our property tax rate comparison.

The blue is how cities in the area ended up last year, and the gold is our proposed rate that we have.

We don't have additional cities proposed rate, but we still are falling pretty evenly within the metropolis.

Okay, moving in to our forecast for next year.

This is an overview of our revenues for 2526 and in the five-year forecast.

Two of our major changes from probably the last time that we spoke to you all about the forecast was where we ended on our property tax value, and then adjustment on the ROI franchise fees, which shows an increase based on higher demand and load increases on those large load customers and our utilities.

On our expenditure side, we are estimating to come in under budget as for the current fiscal year as we have implemented managed vacancies, reduced spending, and then going into next year, some of those major changes that we talked about resulted from zero-based budgeting.

So two that I will highlight are the personnel services where there is a larger increase through the zero-based budgeting.

We write size overtime and our public safety.

One thing we are doing to look at that to make sure that we are doing that correctly.

Are there additional reductions we can make as there's currently an audit of public safety overtime, which we feel will impact this number potentially once that that audit is complete?

And the second larger increase is in the operations line, and part of that is from our economic development incentives that have come online in our economic development forecast.

We talked briefly at the beginning of the presentation about that budget task force.

Here's a summary of the reductions that you saw at the June 17th budget work session.

As our departments looked at asking themselves those questions, what are we possibly duplicating?

What do we need to do differently?

We have come up with seven million dollars in reductions, which led to the submission of the balance budget.

Three million of that falls in personnel, and that will be achieved through our managed vacancy program that we discussed.

The remaining portion of the deficit is various programs, contractual services, travel and training, equipment and supplies.

All of those fall within the operations component of that five-year forecast.

So you are seeing that number already reduced.

Okay.

Last year we implemented a new two-minute pitch process.

And through that, if there were pitches that received consensus, went through a process, but had a budgetary component, we agreed on rolling them to the budget conversation.

So it wasn't seen individually, it could be weighed against all everything being considered as part of the budget process.

We have three out of the two-minute pitch process to talk about today.

The first one is the catalyst fund, where inspiring expiring incentives from the general fund can be considered through the budget process to be rolled into the catalyst fund as we build that and work on being more competitive for economic development.

That amount, we had one small incentive rolling off for 2425 is approximately $38,000.

The second item is a campaign finance consultant fee.

The cost presented is about $70,000, and this would include research on the campaign finance ordinance and the consultant presenting at one meeting.

So out of that, the budget item is to do a comprehensive site analysis and end of life cycle plan on a civic center pool prior to any recommendations being made on renovating renovating that asset.

So those are the three for your consideration today.

I just want to note these are one-time expenses and are not currently included in the city manager's proposed budget.

So we're looking for direction today, specifically from the council on priority order and interest and moving those forward if funding becomes available.

The last one I want to mention is a two-minute pitch item, but it's not being considered during the 25-26 budget.

It will be considered next budget year.

This was a pitch to add an election day holiday.

We've got the cost up there, but this one would apply to a midterm election in November 2026.

So we will consider it during next budget process, but didn't want anyone to think it was left off.

Additionally, we had a few follow-up items from the June 17th work session when we talked about reductions.

One of those was in-kind funding for special events.

The budget previously had 400,000 to fund special event festivals providing in-kind services of public safety, solid waste, uh parks, park staff, and that was reduced from the 400 to the 200,000.

We talked about adding additional funding or having another conversation.

So that's an additional consideration for the council today of 120,000.

And it is not currently included in the city manager's proposed budget.

The second item was the ambassador program that was recommended as a reduction out of the general fund.

Through that conversation, there was consensus from council to consider it as part of the community partnership allocation out of hotel occupancy tax funds, and that is currently in the city manager's proposed budget.

It was recommended by that committee at their last meeting for next year's allocation.

And one note on that it is recommended to be in there, and we're still working to make sure that it meets those that hot fund eligibility, but it can continue to stay in there as a recommendation.

So, mayor, if you'd like to pause here or we can wait till the end, we are looking for direction on the one-time considerations that are not currently included in the city manager's proposed budget.

What we're hoping for is consensus on what the council would like to move forward with and if there is a priority order.

Our strategy is as we come to the end of the fiscal year, we have capital jobs that have general funding in them that as they end could have remaining funds.

So we feel like going through those accounts, closing out, there should be savings there that could fund these, and any year-in savings from operating funding.

So if they are in priority order and we get to the end of the year, and there's a hundred thousand, we could fund priority one, priority two.

So we're looking for direction on the two-minute pitch.

Got it.

So yeah, no, it's a good time to stop, have that conversation.

Uh recommendations for for staff on or uh make your positions known on these items before us uh that would be considered uh additional funding.

Uh representative district six minutes.

Uh thank you.

Uh, first, I just want to say um what a great job uh you all have done on the budget.

Um it uh I was very impressed with uh with the numbers going into the budget cycle being unexpected for all the cities in the area.

Um the fact that you're able to come through and with the recommendations and with the balanced budget uh was very um appreciative.

I'm very appreciative.

Uh so thank you for that.

Um I want to ask about the campaign finance consultant.

I mean, that's a year's salary, $70,000 to make some suggestions to the ordinance.

Is that correct?

That seems out of black to me.

Well, someone it's to hire a consultant, but it's also the consultant would hold public meetings.

So it isn't just to hire the consultant.

The whole idea is if you're gonna do campaign finance, they need to have public meetings.

It's one meeting, I think.

Madison, where are you?

One meeting with the council and then a follow-up meeting, I guess a meeting or two.

That would include multiple meetings.

I think we just communicated on that.

When was that uh direction given by council?

It it was uh it was a two-minute two-minute pitch from a former council member Meltza.

Okay, well, my direction would be to go with the expiring incentive role to catalyst fund the civic center um pool site analysis and the like cycle plan and kind of funding for special events, but not the campaign finance consultant.

I would like to re-look at that.

So that would be my direction.

Yeah, and I want to be clear there is no funding now at all.

This is if funding becomes available.

Oh goodness.

Yes, there is no this is not in the budget.

This is only if we hit a jackpot where we have extra money, and we're asking for you to give us what priorities, if any of are these.

So if money becomes available, what order would we fund them in?

All right.

And other things can be considered too, though.

I mean, if you don't want to fund any of these, you want to leave it to go into fund balance, you want to pay down the debt, whatever that is you want to do.

These are the four things that we promised we'd bring back from a two-minute pitch from council members or uh discussed in a uh in another meeting.

All right, well, thank you very much for that clarification of what it is we're deciding right now.

Um, as far as my direction, I would say the low-hanging fruit is the smallest amount, the uh incentive rule to catalyst fund.

Uh I would say then the end kind funding for special events, then the civic center pool site, then campaign finance consultant as far as the priorities that I would recommend.

Thank you.

Okay, Mayor Proto.

Um mine's similar, slightly different order.

Um it's based on sort of the size of the total amount and just how much I've heard the community talking about it.

So for that reason, I would say uh civic center pool site analysis is the first, um, followed by expiring incentives to roll into catalyst fund, followed by campaign finance consultant, and then finally the in-kind funding for special events would be my priority order.

Representative from district four.

Thank you.

Uh, and and I apologize for being so slow.

Uh, is the is the uh ambassador program to be considered within this?

Yes, sir.

We have it uh recommended as part of hotel occupancy tax funds, so you don't need to consider it from the general fund.

Um the only one of these that I'm that I'm the least bit excited about is the civic center proof.

Okay, anyone else?

President from District Five.

Christine, did I see 3.6 mil is what we're leaving on the table for vacancy staff vacancies.

Uh yeah, we're doing a managed vacancy program.

We didn't do any reduction in fours.

Where's um that's what we expect in salary savings, but yes, you're correct, it is a reduction.

Was it was it 3.6 million member from Sutter?

It's approximately 3 million.

Okay.

Of those staff members of those staff positions we're not filling.

What's the most important?

Which one would get filled first when we start filling staff vacancies, obviously pending applicants and whatnot?

Sure.

We have a multi-approach to that.

So through our managed vacancy program, we have a vacancy review committee, and our focus has been on frontline positions and public safety.

So as requests come through, we evaluate what is the current staffing, what are the challenges, and then decide in which order to fill.

If money is available, I want to be real clear here.

On managed vacancies.

This managed vacancy program is going to continue into the next year.

So we have the managed vacancy program going on now.

We have the managed vacancy program that's going to continue into the next budget year.

Only if money is available, will we fill positions?

So while we're giving you this because we want to be completely transparent, and it was council members who asked for this money.

So I I want to make sure because I don't want anybody leaving and thinking there's money on the table or anything else.

So if you choose these things, I guess I want to know are we choosing these things over managed vacancies?

No, no.

But I want to be you know, I just want to make sure you know that if when money is available, maybe if we get it, we'll be able to fill some positions.

But we are heading into a new budget year with managed vacancies, significant managed vacancies.

So what I'm hearing you say is that we've got three million dollars in managed vacancies after those are filled, then we'll get to council priorities.

No, no, or intermittently.

No, if there's money.

If there is money, okay, but as we go into the 20s 2526 budget, I get this is always confusing.

We have the same amount of managed vacancies that we have now, and and as we see where we are uh in the general fund, that's kind of how we manage this.

Oh, yeah, you know, we can fill this one, maybe, or whatever it kind of rises to the top and we decide which ones are the most important.

Obviously, public safety comes to the top.

But if we have money available as we're filling positions and so forth, and we see that we have extra funding available, that's why we wanted to know your priorities here.

Um we anticipate the latter part of 26 or at least the 26-27 budget, a much better financial situation.

I I'll be honest, I don't think we're gonna be able to do any of these things to be real frank, but if we are, it's important for us to know what your priorities are.

Obviously, our priority is going to be filled vacancies and particularly the ones that are the most important public safety, uh, those kinds of things.

So it's not a and this, it's all right now it's vacancies, and when they roll in and we can fill them, and then if we hit the jackpot, we find out we have more money available, then we can start shipping away these things.

I appreciate that explanation.

I that I agree with.

I think the essential managed vacancies obviously go first, fill police first, fill fire first, for VME, the water utilities first.

If there's money left over, which I'm hearing you said there probably won't be my priorities would be catalyst fund, campaign finance, city center pool, incon, especially district one.

Thank you all for bringing this to us.

Um I know it's a lot of a lot of work, and um, so you know, we as a community we appreciate everything uh that you're bringing to us and the transparency and educating us on what we what we need to do.

So I am on the community uh building committee.

Uh and so I am very particular to how we uh as community appreciate all of our things.

We like the arts and jazz festival, and we like uh having that part of our lives uh you know to share with with each other, and and so I um I'm really hoping that we could you know stay up with that.

We got a lot of hard work in front of us.

Uh people are not happy.

Um, there's a lot of changes going on personally, but we can find some time to still celebrate us.

So uh and I'm very much a quality of life uh individual, so I definitely want to uh put my bid in for the in-conn funding uh for special events with me to encourage other people to come and see our great city uh to help us do that.

Um I think that's a civic civic city pool.

I want to call it the Quaker Town pool, um would be uh appreciated course to expiry incentives for the Calus Fund and uh the campaign finance consultant.

I want to say something about the campaign finance consultant.

I understand that uh I understood uh when Melzer brought this to us, is because there's got to be some kind of way that we can be more proactive in educating our community.

I know that we're putting a lot of energy and a lot of work in educating our community.

We put stuff in a newspaper, we have an online presence, a significant online presence.

We uh gossiping on all of our next door neighborhoods, other kind of social uh media stuff out there, and sometimes that gets a little bit out of hand.

I really appreciated uh the opportunity to have someone uh that's dedicated to what's going on with us as a community to make sure that we are getting the proper information out to the community.

Each one of the council members are pretty much basically uh respected and understood that they're going to talk to their communities, they're going to have their Facebook pages and have their town halls and all of that, but sometimes a lot of people miss some things.

So having someone, I see campaign finance consultant and having someone out there to make sure that the word for the city is what it is.

Um that I I could could definitely understand that, so I really don't want to dismiss that, but I just don't think that that is a particular priority, you know, right now for us.

So in so um just not going back over that.

Uh thank you for uh getting a chance to speak.

Anyone else?

Representative from district two, Mr.

Pierre.

I didn't give my priorities, but I want to get clarity from you on do you also want questions from earlier in the slide deck?

Yes.

Okay.

Um, so uh I'm gonna start with priorities so we have cohesive thought, and then I'll jump back to those other ones.

Um quick question on the managed vacancies.

Some of these were um some of the absences, especially in parks, say for Clear Creek and some others, were I'm not sure where they fall on the managed vacancy spectrum.

Can I so get some clarity on that?

Because some of these activities will die without staff, and so while it's a it could potentially be a managed vacancy, can't continuing it too long, will make it the whole program disappear, and how that would impact uh projections going into the future for this year and next year.

Our managed vacancy program is all of our uh salaried full-time, our full-time positions, our seasonal positions that are program-based are always going through cost recovery process, and so programs out at Clear Creek.

If there is low attendance or the program doesn't make, we would not hire those are seasonal positions not associated with the managed vacancy program.

We do cost recovery, look at the program.

So it is separate.

Manage vacancy is focused on our full-time positions.

We do have just some clarity.

This is a question.

Do we do have some in these various areas where uh some full-time staff in some of these areas that that oversee uh seasonal programs, but the staff themselves are full-time.

So where do those staff fall in this spectrum?

If a position becomes vacant, if someone leaves for another job, leaves the city, that position is frozen and then evaluated among all the other positions quarterly.

Um, but it is our full-time positions.

We do have parks, vacancies.

Sure, we have a special event one that helps with a special event process that is currently frozen.

So yes, and then those duties are absorbed within the department, and then we continue to work with the director on priority need what they need to be filled as we take those requests.

So I I love that clarity.

Can I just get the touch more uh that is and I guess this is all leading to my highest priority is some of these managed vacancies.

So that's why I'm asking a lot of managed vacancy questions in terms of putting those above.

And I think you you've answered that to Council McGee that that remains staff's highest priority as well.

I'm just sort of uh adding emphasis to that.

Um the activities that the programmatic activities that we were going to do will be absorbed into other staff as best we can given time concerns.

Okay.

So that gives me some some comfort.

Um I heard, and in terms of priority, I heard overwhelming uh support for Civic Center Pool.

It was a whole thing in our community about amending the downtown master plan.

Uh so that that would be a high priority for me.

Um I have a question on uh the campaign finance.

Um I understand that that's some of this funding was proposed as consultancy and some of it was proposed as an engagement.

Do you have a rough feel for those those ratios?

I understand it's 70,000 as completely a consultant.

Well, the consultant will conduct the meeting, so it's public.

It's uh it's the consultant doing the work and then having the public engagement piece of it.

Yeah, if you don't want any public engagement, uh and not any but any thought in all of the public about what it should be.

The consultant would have to say, well, just to do the work, I don't know, 25,000, 30,000, 40,000, something like that.

So that's a guesstimate too.

My recommendation would be to in-house that consultation thing as best we're able and still do the community engagement part.

Um I'm I understand that staff has concerns about their expertise in this area and and some trepidation.

Um, but it when you're faced with budget concerns and about something you also want to do, that's when you give it a full faith good effort uh with with your existing staff uh and in existing uh opportunities for community engagement.

Uh I don't know what that number would look like in terms of budgeting.

Um I don't know, I would assume it's not zero because it's an activity that would have to be programmed in, but I would be extremely interested in what an in-housing of that uh looked like with some uh reasonable community engagement.

Um I'm not the but my next priority uh I I'm I I voted for the catalyst fund, it's it's fine.

I think one of the reasons I voted for it for it as a as a as an opportunity was because we had the ability on you know when I asked questions to sweep it back in during the budget process, which is exactly what we're discussing now, is whether we need to keep it in the general fund or it's it's source funds or roll it back out for economic development.

I I don't necessarily want to get rid of it for the future.

Um I so I will just put it as an extremely low priority for me, and then I have no interest give given given the size of the the ambassador program potential impact um and uh on on some of these other possibility of activities.

I said this in a in a community uh uh the community program not something partnership, thank you.

I appreciate that.

Um that that I given the cost of it relative to all the other programs and activities and cultural events and everything else we wanted to do.

I'm I'm I'm still not interested in that.

Um so um while I I could see my way clear to to you know as warning down these priorities.

I I can't see my way clear to get into that last hundred and twenty thousand for that one program.

I think it's just too expensive.

It's uh I just want to clarify that's not the ambassador program.

Um, okay.

I appreciate the clarity.

Um I'm just reading from the slide.

Oh, that's the where is what is that one then?

Uh this is the in-time funding, the general fund budget previously had 400,000, and one of our recommendations was to reduce that down to 200,000.

And uh, this is a request to bring that a conversation to is council interested in bringing that back up to 320,000.

Uh yeah, I'm I am not.

I mean, I I I'd like for the for any, I mean, you say that's not the ambassador program, I I get that.

So I'm I'm interested in bringing that funding up.

Then if that's if that's the clarity, I'm interested in bringing that up for other events, but but not if it's part of the ambassador program.

It's for special events, like parts and jazz.

I I would be I would be interested in in having that then.

Uh so then I would put that above um, I would put that above catalyst.

Not because again, I'm not I'm not bashing on catalyst, and I know it's only 38,000, but there's an opportunity there to do that kinds of save things versus economic development, and I know that one leads to the other, so I'm I'm not naive about that.

But uh so then I would change the order to the 120 after in-housing the campaign uh finance, so pool in-housing the campaign finance 120 uh for in-kind and and and um and then I mean if we get to it, we get to it on the catalyst file.

Oh, and then um, real quick um couple questions.

Okay, I I'm from what you said in and in the slide deck, and was it clear on how the 4.5 hour work week could you just briefly redescribe how that will work and where the cost savings are coming from.

Uh it's not I don't think we're not recommending it as a cost saving strategy going into next fiscal year with no compensation, uh, cost of living or merit.

We've done uh employee surveys, and one benefit, which would be more of a quality of life benefit for our administrative offices would be to close at noon on Friday.

Uh several cities in the Metroplex do it and have adopted to that model.

So essentially City Hall development services, City Hall East would be open Monday through Thursday, 8 to 5, and then we would close open at 8 a.m.

on Friday, close at noon.

So employees in those administrative positions would end their work day at noon on Friday.

Um there could be small savings associated with energy use in the building, but overall the recommendation to pilot the program is a quality of life benefit for uh our place.

No, I and I we we talked about that sort of the the multi-day work, you know, the extra half a Saturday kind of concept.

Uh I'm I'm for supporting that in general.

I guess um if you could give counsel in in no particular rush, but soon during the budget process, sort of what we expect that in terms of amount of activities that go on on a Friday afternoon?

Yes, we've got that.

I figured you would have that.

So, you know, we you know, one percent of our permitting is on a Friday afternoon or something like that, just so we have a feel for what going to an extra half Saturday means in terms of service, not not in terms of supporting the program.

We we can certainly provide that part of going into that recommendation.

Looked at what is our activity at each of these, and are there still online options available?

Can you pay a court ticket?

Can you pay your utility bill?

The answer is yes, and activity was low, um, especially with the legislative changes on agendas, our busy day for agenda, our council meeting will now be Wednesday.

Um, but we certainly, as we get closer to launching the pilot, can send here's what's changing, here's the volume, and here's what to expect.

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

That's all thank you, Mr.

Any other questions, directions.

Representative Mr.

Board.

Um those 4896 schedule for the fire department looks like.

I heard 24, 48 or something like that.

I will attempt to explain.

Oh, it's already gonna come up.

Well we're that four days off for five days.

Right now, employees work 24 hours on, then they get two days off, 28 hours.

4896 has been around for years.

We are actually one of the last departments in county that has not adopted it yet.

So association's been working with me for three years, really kind of pushing this.

We started in January and actually I formed a committee and had our employees go out and do the research, bring it back to us as far as administration.

Went through that.

Um we drafted policies, what it looked like, talk to those cities, and this is a metropolitan city.

Sacramento, after he's found this Las Vegas has been on for 15 years.

So what it looks like is we goes to work 48 hours straight.

So two full days, and then they get 96 hours off.

So four days.

What that does is actually help our employees recover.

You're off two days, you don't really truly recover.

You never really get your sleep habits back to normal state.

So there's a lot of research, a lot of data says it's actually better for employee around, health, less meeting work, you're sending time down 50% drive in from the outskirts as well.

So everything we see is very positive.

Uh oh internally, and 87% of the department wouldn't move towards this new schedule.

That's great.

That sounds like a great quality of life that benefit um for the uh firefighters.

Thank you all for bringing it to us.

I appreciate that.

I think that's all I have for that.

Also, um I will look oh, I also had a question about the four and a half-day work we company that you answered that.

Uh and uh let's write them down, ambassadors when you start explaining that.

So uh those were the only things um that I had.

Appreciate it.

Do you want to give your input on this slide?

I'm probably about to start bouncing around on slides.

No, go ahead.

I'm I'm gonna hit a lot of things uh as quickly as possible.

Yeah, quick.

Slide seven.

So I did math, and I think in the 2024-2025 fiscal year uh sales tax increase by 4.15.

And I think we're targeting that the future the coming year will be 4.62, so that's a little higher than last year was.

I know last year doesn't necessarily predict what's going to happen in the future year.

Um my question is is that conservative enough to help us avoid an additional you know, sort of surprise shortfall.

Uh yes, I mean, finance recommendation we're looking at it.

We had it higher previously, they brought in a consultant who looked at how our sales tax has performed, what do we anticipate, and we feel that 4.62 is realistic and still conservative.

Um, and then we have increased it slightly in the out years.

Well, it's just a uh the first ATVs will come online, uh, and that will help us, and then they're pulling permits right now for the second HD.

So hopefully we will see an uptick.

Um there'll be some other businesses coming in surrounding the area around the uh ATV.

So uh just a little slide up tip for 2526, but you see, you'll see over much better, which would be good for the city uh in the year that we see some projects that feel optimized.

Absolutely comment.

Yeah, yes, representative.

Thank you.

I appreciate that question.

I had the exact same question and just a uh point of this that we got today, and also references that is estimated uh on the historical sales tax data as well as third party data, and then it cites citybase.net.

So you might go there because I had the exact same question we want to be incredibly concerned.

Yes, thank you.

Thank you, Mary.

Okay, uh going back to okay.

So slide eight now.

Or sorry, nine, let's go one more.

So I definitely don't like two years in a row where staff aren't getting some sort of cost of living or um merit increase.

Um do you feel like with we will have potential in the fall in the FY27 that we'll be able to provide that?

Certainly don't like to have that two years in a row.

Uh staff did receive uh increases last year or in the current year that we're in.

So we're not proposing them for next year, but the forecast moving forward does include uh compensation increases.

And then uh slide 10.

So the voter approval tax rate only applies to the maintenance and operations rate, correct?

Not INS where I may need to bring Cassie in.

What's that?

Oh Cassie may get tagged in for that.

It yes, so there are portions that apply to both.

Okay, uh, but the overall voter approval rate does include your um screen.

So the if you go to the next slide, Kristen.

Next one.

Oh, yeah, right there.

The right voter approval rate that is the 6.12.

That does include your INS rate.

Oh, so it's just the overall.

Okay.

Uh, and then slide 12.

Uh, about half of that household are renters.

Do we have a mechanism to be able to provide a similar type of slide for how it would impact the average renter?

I don't know if there's a way to really calculate that.

I know that question came up as part of 2020 pre-claw program too.

I mean, I assume we could take we could do something to show average rent last year or this year, uh, but how that's passed on to the renter is not possible for us to estimate.

Yeah, I will say that uh having talked to some people that own rental property.

It fluctuates because depending on uh the economy and everything, they will raise their rights a little bit, go up, and then when they see they're not getting their rental facilities filled, they'll start giving specials and lowering their their monthly payoffs, their rates.

So it's it's really interesting how they do it because they pass it on, obviously.

But many, you know, and then it's easier to fill because of the students and housing issues, but that happens to be the issue.

Yeah, okay.

So you're saying I mean it's there's no guarantee, like this is sort of a guaranteed over renders expend.

Okay, keep her clarifying that a little bit.

Um slide 15.

What is intergovernmental revenue?

Just definition, I don't know what it is specifically.

Um I can say specifically, so this line includes where we fill little own or handling their dispatch services, ISDISD and their the SRO program.

And their the SRO program money comes into life as a partnership.

Okay.

The safety resource officers.

So it's people other cities paying the city of Denton for some sort of service charity.

We provide 911 resources to Little Like, and we have a contract with them, and they have a certain amount of money, and it's based on uh uh base and it's based on calls, uh and so it fluctuates as well, but uh we bill them, and that's where the money goes into.

Okay, thank you.

Um, and then side 16.

Can you provide an example of an interference transfer?

Like at least one maybe one big example that we see most often or something.

Right.

Um yes, this is a constant question.

So we have internal service funds, we have the technology service fund, the fleet fund.

So the fleet fund for the police department supports X amount of vehicles through maintenance, oil change.

Uh so we take that data and have a number that will move out from the general fund to support those activities in fleet.

Yeah, anything that is in-house that is supporting these operations as an allocation model, so then we're putting that share back to that fund to continue the activities.

I think I think that's all I have at this point.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Uh so uh let's see.

So, first and foremost, on the special uh I think that I had the title right on the special revenue funds um example ones that we we're kind of holding money, like the holding funds.

Do we have a calculation to say better say it?

When it comes to debt, do we have a do we have a math algorithm that says, for example, when we're talking about if we one cent off the budget affects it this way, do we do we have that where if we pay down this much debt it affects the uh rate by one cent?

We do, and um, so effectively, if you're talking about reducing the tax rate the proposed from one cent back to what it would have been, it's approximately 1.8 million um dollars.

That would be a one time buy down this would apply to this year.

Uh so for those funds, what you're speaking about is that we we transfer revenue from the general fund to the catalyst fund, sustainability fund, and the streets fund within those fund balances that there's approximately five million dollars available, but it would reduce those activities.

So are any of those funds jumping to my next question?

Uh one of my latter questions.

Any of those funds, you said capitalist sustainability and streets?

Yes.

And do you have and so are any of those funds such that we've not spent any money out of those in 2024-25 budget, like this past year?

I they all have different ways that you're spending.

I will say that funding mechanism has been not stable.

It is uh larger customers at data center revenue, so it's been inconsistent.

So each of them have spent funds.

The amount that we anticipated, no, it is not, uh, but there are plans for all of those funds, but we do have uh fund balance available in each of those.

But but better let me clarify what I heard you say.

So you said we we did spend money out of the Cabinets fund on various economic development incentives uh when they've come forward this past year, a headquarters grant, um, a job space grant, those are funded from the catalyst fund.

And then on the sustainability fund, what's some examples of stuff we spent over last year?

I might have to call Michael uh the fire chart.

I think he's asking what's the balance in those funds.

No, no, no, no, it's it's examples of what they've spent the money on.

Yeah, like if we if we've actually used the fund, and if it was something like program or something, oh by the way, here's where we can fund this either way.

They they have the state uh sustainability framework advisory committee who puts together how they're going to spend that funding.

Part of the challenge has been because this revenue was not as stable, they're could not spend it until we received the revenue, which has caused some timing timing challenges.

There has been some funds spent, but there is a million dollars sitting in that fund balance for the sustainability fund specifically.

And so unspent.

And so is it is it staff and financial department best practices they say to leave those funds, or is it better to just have it in the general fund and spend from there?

Well, council's policy direction was to create those funds, and that was the priority funding.

Um so the purpose was you know for the street sustainability, so the money has stayed there unless we get direction to pull it back or right.

So my question again was though, is that financial best practices a staff's recommendation to do that?

I understand the council's decision, but is that best practices or best practices, leave it in a general fund and spend it from there?

I don't have the answer for that right now.

There's there's not a financial principle or I don't know that there's a financial principle about it.

I think it's I think drawing.

I think if you're trying to have people up there, sorry.

Uh Mountain Royal Function City Auditor.

Uh, if you're if you're trying to spend something specifically for a potential revenue source, it's best to have its own fund so that you can clearly see, like see how much you're spending, how much you have available.

So if that's the council's direction to spend a certain amount of money for sustainability or for streets maintenance or for uh catalyst, whatever I think that's recognition development.

Um it's best to be able to see it that way, but you would still be able to transfer it back to the general fund, like Christine was saying.

Does that help?

Uh generally, and I don't want to believe the point, so it's something I'll take up afterwards.

We can we can parse through it, but yes, I as far as like a transparency, yes, it's best practice to do it that way.

Um, not necessarily like it's not necessarily best practice to have a sustainability fund that's like it's not best practice to have those funds.

So got and so my point would be no other question, just kind of direction.

So for me as an individual, right?

Uh, just I have one voice, and I do not want to raise taxes on people uh this year, and so my direction would be for staff now.

And if if there's not a majority, don't do a thing, we'll just let it sit.

But I'm I'm I'm gonna bang the drum uh pretty regular going forward.

If we have five million dollars sitting in those funds unallocated, unproject not project specific.

So they're sitting there waiting for a project, and we're going to raise taxes by one cent.

I want to find 1.8 million dollars out of that fund to then pay down debt, which we're all we're focused on to then put us back to the same rate we were last year.

So my goal is to put us at the same rate that we were before by taking money that's not encumbered and applying it to debt.

So that lowers that debt by one cent, puts us back where we were.

So that's that's my uh thing, and and those can always be backfilled on different than we're sacrificing filling positions, we're sacrificing donations to uh nonprofits for events.

Everyone's taking a haircut, and I don't think it's fair for the city to sit there and say, hey, we have five million dollars in this war chest that and we have bond money that's paying for the streets, so we're not hurting any street activity there.

Plus, I I hear more about people going crazy about street work than people saying, hey, we need more street work.

It's uh evolved since we've been a constant attack over the last uh and and I don't want that to change.

I I'm fine with the complaints about street work, let's do street work.

Uh but that that would be my my ask.

Not that I pick it out, but that staff look at it, and if there's a majority that gets coalesces around that, that would say, hey, let's do that, or there may be a majority that says state aligned state of course.

No, it matters not.

Ben, uh, can you help me on the civic center pool plan?

That would be that's not actionable.

That's is that just kind of a like a 2030 plan, or is that hey, we're going the study would yield an actionable, we're gonna do this.

I think it would land us, so what that pitch was to renovate the civic center pool and uh the ISR indicated it's a really large, it's a really old asset.

So, what we would like to do is this study so that we can make some concrete decisions.

What's the cost?

Uh, what's the life analysis of it?

Should we continue to put more money in and renovate it?

Um, so it will be an actual document that can help us make a decision, but it's not like a um 2030 plan or a got yeah, it's so the only way I would at all rank that is if one if it was done same year, as same council, right?

Like if we if we're doing something and it can be turned around when the same council is there, and that council agrees to follow that do through all the public outreach and all the things and follow that to the T because we all know we're we're losing money on that thing, and whatever it decides, so that we can get back home, you just can't keep throwing good money after bad.

And so if the council agrees to encumber itself or commit to whatever the findings, whatever that comes out to be, that we go forward with that.

My concern is if you spend that much money and then it gets ignored, then we it's all for not.

If the professionals say this needs to happen, and let's say whatever majority of council doesn't subscribe to that theory, then why did we do the study?

So that's really my thing.

If and I don't know if there's a way, I'm certain there's a way for a council sitting to encumber itself and hold itself accountable.

Uh I don't know if that's the case for future councils.

That's why, and so I just put a pin on that.

If there's a scenario that arrives that that allows for that fact pattern to happen, I'm all on board.

But if we're gonna just spend money to ignore what the consultant says, uh I'm not interested.

Just mayor, so you know the pool, the Civic Center pool is anywhere between 60 and 70 years old.

So having a lot of experience with antiquated pools from Austin, um you really don't want to do anything to it because it's like putting lipstick on a pick and calling it pretty.

Um what you want to do is figure out if eventually through a capital program if you have money to renovate the pool and well to literally completely redo it because the underground or below the ground is gonna be antiquated and probably is leaking right now, and then all the fixtures, restroom and everything else is also antiquated.

So it is it it's probably rough for complete rebuilt and completely not renovate but re redo the pool and and have a nice pool.

But to spend the money on a on a I mean you would want someone to tell you that, but I can tell you that's exactly what is that edge of butt pool.

No, and I couldn't agree more, but my my concern would be to arrive at that conclusion, and then people say what we're gonna be without a pool downtown for this much time and as many people can't afford it, well I don't want to do it, what else can we do with I mean, you know, it's like if you're not willing to uh do what we need to do, uh then why faint is OER?

So uh and and that's and and let me say that's consistent with my concern about the water wastewater thing, and and and that's the neat thing about that.

They they have a plan, they have a budget, they have these things, and they're moving forward.

Uh, and so I think that's really if once we get to that point, I think it's uh a good conversation to have.

Um also this is not in your slides, but making decisions.

Can you can staff come back with for me a effect of tax exempt properties on the city of Denton?

So, for example, if we do this, it affects the taxes because that's been heavy on my mind.

We used the last example of a council meeting, so we're it's proposed to take whatever five fifty thousand, hundred thousand dollars off the tax roll.

What effect does that have on the budget?

So when we're having these shortfalls and we're giving away tax money, uh, is that a wise investment of that money?

Or so I just I don't have a chart to say what the effect of that is.

So I'd like to have that going forward.

And then back up here.

Is the day the day we talk about uh rate percentage for DME?

We're going to discuss that on the 19th.

19th, so not today, got it.

And then on the ambassador program, here have do we have a quote from them?

Yeah, uh it's I keep mixing up, it's either 219 or 291, 291.

That's an official quote from them.

We have a different service level, so what's being proposed is the smallest service level, so it reduces the boundary down to I believe it's where proper and is only five days a week.

Uh so less number of days, smaller boundary was the 291.

Yeah.

So I'm just telling you, I'm gonna have a problem with that because I would need the property owners to pay in.

And so my question is is that an option for the council to to mandate some sort of uh tax, or is that they have to opt in?

Uh for a public improvement district, which would be supported by the property owners, it is does need to be petitioned and supported by the property owners.

Uh we did meet with them and discuss it, and they were not interested in moving forward with a PID at this time.

Yeah, so just to be clear for me, for to have a clear record.

I can't see my way forward to support something like that.

And one, we have the county that got that 160,000 they requested, they got the proposal was zero.

Is that right?

Correct.

Yeah, so the county that's helped us with a number of things and partner with us regularly and has a community market, which everyone talks about, gets zero.

I can't get on board with that.

That's it.

And I that exacerbates that.

Two if it's so valuable that the property owners won't participate, how valuable is it?

I just think there's a hard conversation as you had, and I get it if they don't opt in.

But the square proper, I mean, that doesn't cover any of those back streets where most of the issues happen.

If you look at look at the reports, most of your naked people on downtown are not found on the square proper.

Most of calls were hey, this issue is just off the square.

Industrial Street, you know, fuzzies, all those people, and so uh I understand the intent of it.

I'm support obviously I'm supportive of the project.

I I push for it from day one, but it when we're telling the arts and jazz we can't give you money, we're telling the county we can't participate in the community market cost.

We're telling the uh Texas Veterans Hall of Fame we can't participate.

Uh then I think it's there's not one department that bore the full brunt of these holds on positions, right?

You you spread it out amongst every department, and so this seems like it's a coalescing around this one thing to the detriment of others, and I just don't think it's diversified enough.

And I think if I I would be fine with a match of some sort, like the city will put up this if you put up that and go back to the property owners, that to me is fair.

This is not fair.

Uh so I I won't be supportive, and if that if that remains as projected, and the county is shut out and the Texas Veterans Hall of Fame shut out then and some others, then I'm just and we're bearing 100%, and it's just the square proper.

I I'm I'm gonna be a no just transparency-wise.

Um and then yes, and then last thing, I guess if you could just give me the um well, you when you look at those funds, just in there you'll include you know what whatever the balance are.

So, lastly, you need from me a list of let me get back there, sorry.

Um, if I were to look at the projects uh priority-wise, just so that I have a clear record, it's the capitalist project, uh, the catalyst uh two-minute pitch.

Then I'll say this, I don't support moving forward campaign finance because as my as my as I understand it, that and maybe I'm wrong, but that has nothing to do with the city.

We don't host those reports, we take those reports, we post them, but that's the state and the ethics, we don't enforce it, we don't do anything there, and so it's a straight pass through, has nothing to do with the city.

We don't investigate those things, so I'm not interested in spending $70,000 for something we don't control or take care of.

Uh and then obviously I I've spoken on the civic center pool, so those two are non-starters for me, and then um I guess second would be the to have a conversation about the in-con funding, and uh yeah, that's that's everything.

That that one's not until next year.

So yeah, and I scored on that.

Okay, yes.

We are okay.

Uh briefly, we will cover the internal service funds.

There's some questions on those on the forecast of the transfer line out.

So we have a variety of internal service funds that are used to account for those goods and services provided to from one department to another within the city of Denton organization.

So here is a list of our internal service funds.

We have the customer service funds, primarily supported by those utility funds, technology services, materials management, which is our warehouse and purchasing group, fleet facilities, risk, engineering, environmental services.

Um, all of those were showing here on the screen.

Their budget from last year, their proposed budget does reflect a decrease, and that comes from that same uh strategy we utilized by looking at zero-based budgeting.

They also implemented the same type of reductions and travel and training, looking at their consulting services, so did an excellent job on their proposed budgets.

And one item that we'll come back in a future budget is those credit card fees that we talked about over the summer.

We'll talk about that again in the fall as that progresses.

Moving into our special revenue funds, we have numerous special revenue funds, I think 25 that account for the receipts of specific revenue sources that are restricted for a specific purpose.

We're going to highlight just a few of them today, the the ones that we feel council would want to speak the most about that set towards a convention fund, which is the hotel occupancy tax funds.

We've already had a bit of conversation on those.

Catalyst, sustainability, and streets, those are the ones primarily receiving their revenue from that general fund transfer.

And then the tree fund, that one's being highlighted, not that it's a large special revenue, but there was a two-minute pitch item to incorporate some information in the budget process.

Here's a list of all of those special revenue funds with their adopted budget and proposed.

We do have backup information on these, and it was detailed in the budget document.

If there are specific questions, we can certainly answer them, but we're gonna stick to the couple that we want to highlight.

So on this tourist and convention fund, it is our hotel occupancy tax.

It's a 7% levy on the hotel rooms.

We use this funding to support the promotion of tourism.

And we have a community partnership committee that looks at this annually and recommends the funding allocation.

This chart we felt would be helpful.

It's a little more than the hotel occupancy tax, but we've not presented information where council can see all of the funding sources for our festivals, which may help give a more holistic look on what they're receiving.

Um so all of the organizations are listed on the left.

That first column rather than what they put their application in for requesting on hot funds.

The second column is what the community partnership recommended.

The the next two are from the general fund, but we wanted to again let you see that whole picture.

So we do have cash dollars that are part of the general fund, and which organizations can receive a cash sponsorship amount, and then that last column is the in-kind funding that we've had conversations on.

Now, this in-kind recommendation only includes an allocation of 200,000, which is currently in the budget.

If uh the consideration is to up that, we have um would go back and redo that allocation process up to the 320,000.

One other piece I want to note why there were several changes on the hotel occupancy tax allocations this year.

Um, that community partnership committee has had a lot of discussions on how do we allocate, are we looking at how are they promoting tourism, how are they getting out-of-town visitors?

So this year included an application process with a rubric, and then there was a scoring matrix, which then impacted how funding was allocated.

Uh, two other pieces to point out on this is that we do have a contingency budgeted of 130,000, and that ambassador program uh is in the recommendation right now.

Uh mayor, would you like to pause and talk about this fund or you want to keep going?

Uh there's uh I'll leave it to the council there as there's questions about the fund, then we'll just get it now.

Representative from district two district one after that.

Uh the let me get to the right page number uh for slide 23.

Um do we have um I I appreciate the the differences and distinctions from last year to this year.

Do we have um a sort of crude breakout on what what's equipment versus what's MO, like where like I noticed on the uh the fleet, some of that you just presumably is replacement kicking the can so that we can you know we make a piece of equipment last longer than maybe is ideal in our long-term planning.

Um do we have that kind of uh equipment capital project breakout versus uh you know, ML kind of breakout versus salaries and benefits.

Can we get that?

I'm not asking for it now, but if we could get that so we could see, well, okay, this budget changes due to salaries, and this budget changes due to equipment.

Yes.

I would love to get that.

We should have that, or we do have that broken out in detail in the proposed budget.

I'll follow up and mark the page.

Um, but for fleet's gonna show you the salary amount, it's got uh the actuals, the current year budget, and proposed so that you can see those changes by category uh for personnel operations, which is our vehicle maintenance.

Did I uh then I apologize if I overlooked it, missed it, but that's my bad uh Jet Lag will do that to you.

Um then on the um the ordering.

Um I I said this in the community partnership meeting, but I I just tremendously commend staff for making uh a more objective rubric for funding these things.

I think that's the only way to move forward.

Um I I do, you know, we had conversations at the time in that in that meeting.

We had conversations at the time in that in that meeting that I think we do need a sort of break-in period, figuring out how what's the impact of using the rubric and how does that change things because you end up having people that are experienced at getting grants and doing grant development, being better able to have staff their staff get on top of those rubrics and meet our specific objectives than you know, some of these smaller groups that are asking for bits and pieces, you know.

The mayor mentioned uh the Texas veterans, they're they're they're less able to throw staff at a making sure that they've properly gotten it.

So I I think it would behoove us as a council to sort of have a break-in period and uh and a re-evaluation period to make sure that the rubric is matching our goals, um sort of maybe even up to the point of you know, two two different application streams.

Are you a brand new don't really know what you're doing application stream, and are you more of a professional organization application stream, just so that that's being properly uh compared to and uh the the question I had on the the expenditures uh on the the 320,000 versus the 200,000 that that was the 120,000 that we talked about at the community partnership for and that was mostly for the in-kind um that those in-kind donations could can you remind us and uh what exactly are the types of things that were being funded by in-kind?

Yes, um, it includes uh public safety, so police or fire services, solid waste services, uh park services.

So I'll just give you one example, and and we've made several changes on this and continue to make them more the positive.

Uh one of the festivals we'll just pick Blues Festival uh needs police services.

We look at it and say it's gonna be uh ten thousand dollars, and you fund them, the city says we're gonna allocate you 50% of it, we're gonna give you 5,000, then the festival will be responsible for paying the remaining portion.

So it's uh it's like a grant uh essentially for those types of services that occur during the festival.

And one of the again, one of the questions I brought up at the meeting, so I I don't think we record those, so that's kind of why I'm reiterating some of it now, is um staff has done a uh sort of gargantuan jobs to try to help these organizations right, size their their request, and I appreciate that.

Uh don't don't ask for you know 300,000 people if you need 50,000 people kind of thing, uh or support for 50,000.

Uh so I I really appreciate staff doing that sort of thing, but then we we saw um uh it across the funds that we reviewed, sort of um a growth potential that we I think we need to kick the tires on back to my earlier comment.

So um I I guess where I'm going with this is if we if we don't if we don't set those that extra 120,000 to allow for the rubric to to kick in because we've adjusted everything in terms of smart reallocation of resources based on an actual more realistic participation level and the actual number of firefighters, the actual resources and things like that.

If we if we simultaneously pull that lever and defund them in another level, then we don't know which one had the desired impact in terms of right sizing the program.

So I'm I'm encouraging us to allocate the extra amount and and then write size separately and not pull both at the same time.

I know that was a lot of verbiage, I apologize that, but we're we're trying to steer with two different levers, and we don't know the effect of either one independently, is what I'm saying.

We don't have the other mind the 120,000 is not real money.

It's only if if we find that, meaning if there's a saving.

So I hear what you're saying, and I think I mean I looked at the allocations and not special things in my heart for the veterans and Gary Steele and everything, but a lot of these events um this is an opportunity for them to write size as well.

It's an opportunity for them to realize they need to do a better job of fundraising and their sponsorships.

thousand is not real money it's only if if we find that meaning if there's a savings so I hear what you're saying and I think I mean I looked at the allocations and not a special place in my heart for the veterans and Gary Steele anything but a lot of these events um this is an opportunity for them the right side of the web it's an opportunity for them to realize they need to do a better job of fundraising and sponsorships and I think you and and the group that did this work did a really yeoman's job basing it on the rubric but I hear what you're saying there has to be a human element to the unit providing as well and so this might be a good time to say okay how did it go this year after this is all there and then see what are the events that suffered the most or really need help and figuring out how to help them get sponsorships and stuff and you know I offer to help and never turn from them again but I think we we are still standing with that how can we help them how can we help them figure out how to get the sponsorships and those kinds of things and I do think quite frankly as we see the more economic development come in town particular big stores I think you'll see more opportunities.

No I appreciate I appreciate that the clarity and and I'll I'll just end with there were two things that were brought up in that committee one was um is there an opportunity for our grant staff to educate folks on how better to apply for grants um so that they get to a more professional level that will help them get get and you know what what's appropriate what's not that was brought up by Christine at the meeting and uh another thing that I want to give credit to Christine for was um she wasn't advocating or not advocating she threw it out as an option she was very good to not advocate or not or advocate so I I'm not saying that but she threw it out as something to consider during the budget process which is why I bring it up here was if we put that 1200 in as contingency funds then that allows us to budget and know if there's an emergency as we hit these events to get to some of these quality of life things that are so critical to what makes Denton different to McKinney and Plano and everything else because these are our special babies and we want to make sure that in an emergency we could step up then I think budgeting it as a contingency fund rather than allocated means that in an emergency we can we could step in and and you and the staff already have the authority to step in and that's what I'm going to advocate that we do with that hundred and twenty thousand is make make it a potentially available rather than allocate it parcel by parcel.

That way we can backstop some of these events if they don't achieve their fundraising goals.

If we find that money like I said and it ranks up with a you know the members with the council and we have that money and where it's where and where it ends up as a priority for all council members I mean certainly it's certainly something we could set aside if we find money and it's and hopefully over after this year there'll be more opportunities to put money aside and and and let it grow so that it can be supportive of the ones that are just getting started or they somehow just didn't make it or what is it maybe.

That's all this money representative district I this is my fifth year on this particular committee and I have been very uh blessed to be on this committee because it's it's just so important to us um like council member big stated you know our quality of life and these are the people that makes us unique and different from any other city uh in the state uh we have to rely on these people we're so always so proud to say oh didn't this and didn't north of ordinary and Dents is uh you know we didn't we're or whatever whatever we like to call ourselves and these are the groups of people um that is really putting in all that effort and all of that work to make sure that we can you know be proud of ourselves Halloween uh all of that and so pulling in just community members we've had time in our history or in my history to be able to walk into these meetings and say yes you get yes do it yes yes yes to practically everything that's when our economy was going well we were feeling good about what we uh wanted to accomplish people have had uh you know I have had some have some had uh extra extra dollars in their pockets uh to do these um have make these events occur donations were up all of these people are working extremely hard uh to keep our quality of life uh for us here in this city this year um and I think uh Joe Holland can attest to this after the last couple of years and we were just so proud to walk out of there and say you know what we are just really doing such a great job around here and this year was very hard for us because we had to have that uh deep conversation we went back and forth it was hard uh to go back and forth and say you know we just don't have the funding for it and we just um you know either that or we're gonna have to go back to our community and see if they'll just push a little bit more out of their wallets to help us um help these folks it's all of our funds it's our money and we're just pushing that money back into our community and sometimes we have to go back to our citizens and say hey we want to do this or we need to do this and we've got to ask for not a penny and and and then that's difficult for some people to do

And we just either that or we're gonna have to go back to our community and see if they'll just push a little bit more out of their wallets to help us help these folks.

It's all of our funds, it's our money, and we're just pushing that money back into our community, and sometimes we have to go back to our citizens and say, hey, we want to do this, or we need to do this, and we've got to ask for another penny.

Uh, and and then that's difficult for some people to do.

Um I'm just wanting to make sure that we just maximize our potential of sitting in that meeting to come to these conclusions.

Um, please, uh community.

I want the community to know that we really put that effort in to give as much as we could.

Now we have to go back to the community.

We have to go back to the citizens and ask you to dig into your wallets again, support these um support these groups.

When they come and ask for funding, if you have a little bit extra to support them because they're gonna be giving back to you.

It's just a cycle, it's a beautiful cycle, and when they're struggling, they need help.

Is it gonna come from the taxpayers' pockets, or is it going to come from the donors' pockets?

It's the same funding, uh, if you kind of really think about it.

So uh being okay with all of this, looking at all of those groups, heads and beds, also considering who comes to Denton, who comes to then and spend the night to go to something specific up on that board.

Who are the people?

Is it the people that's going to these events?

Do they already live here?

Because I already live here.

I cannot, I don't have to spend the night in a hotel just to go to something here.

So we have to be attractive enough to have people to come here and spend the night, and we have to rely on those that fund that um percentage to go to these to these groups to help them to keep giving us what we like.

Just logic behind all of that.

I would say that if we choose to go uh whatever route that we go to, are we um okay with doing that either way?

Um I did have some other stuff to say actually say, but um I actually kind of forgot about what I was really trying to say.

Um, but in in but in any case, uh let's go ahead and be as supportive as we possibly can.

Pushing that money over to uh ambassadors and asking for the ambassadors um to be funded in some kind of way.

Our downtown gets so much press.

There are people that I just saw a video, and a young man was walking around downtown, and he was letting the world know how great Denton is, how great downtown Denton is, and how um appreciative we are in this community having such a great downtown.

And one of the things that I noticed on that video, as that man was literally walking downtown, it was so clean, because I can see it, and I was looking for it.

That was not a speck of anything on the ground, not a wrapper or anything, and he literally walked downtown.

And I said, that's what the people are asking for.

Well, we don't have any home, we don't hardly ever see any homeless people downtown.

Well, because we have the ambassadors program, and the ambassador's program was designed to help the people that find their way downtown and give them information to help them go somewhere else, and it has been working.

Now, our only thing that we like to do in that regard for the ambassadors specifically is to talk our downtown merchants into assisting us with continuing to give back to them what they want.

There is this whole notion.

I'm gonna get on my high heart now.

There's this whole notion of always wanting to have something the way that it was, and there's a rising cost associated with that, and then not understanding that it has to be paid for in some kind of way.

You want a nice downtown, but you don't want to pay the cost, or you can't.

Seeing you're being selfish, I'm just saying the reality is the funding has to come from somewhere to be able to keep your downtown nice.

We're not hiring anybody to keep the downtown nice.

We're not hiring, we're not it's not an in-house.

That's why we got the ambassadors.

So in any case, sir, let me finish.

Yeah.

And I'm gonna wrap it up.

Please do.

In any case, I think that we should continue to give credence and significantly support the idea of the ambassadors program for downtown.

I'd like to see it stay there.

And I like for the downtown merchants to be mindful that it is we'd like to have some help with that.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Mayor.

Just one quick question.

Slide 23.

When I was looking at this slide, only one thing just really stood out to me, and that was the West Park tour tours.

What explains that very big drop off what happened there?

Uh so that fund balance has been building, and we have one large reimbursement payment this year, so then that fund balance will continue to build over the next couple of years until we get to the next dollar amount reimbursement.

Staying on that same slide.

I have two questions.

So the street improvement fund.

What's the remaining fund balance if we spend the 23?

Or is this spend it to zero?

Uh no, there is a fund balance in there.

Uh I have to pull it on the future slide.

Matt said it's on a future slide.

Okay.

And the second question, when I was looking last night in the backup, can you just explain to me why we have a slight dip in the legends district fund?

As I understand it, isn't that that's for the fire agreement between us and them?

Yeah.

Yeah, both are estimates.

Um, I believe so when they prepared the budget last year, the 170 was likely they thought of what they would need for those expenditures, and going into next year, they will refine that cost.

I would have thought that the cost would have gone up.

It didn't have much in the backup, just to explain that I'm just wondering why it's going down.

I still want to uh Cassie or Carl wants to answer.

My question clear, does that make sense?

We're talking about the fire agreements as they're in our CCN, right?

Right.

Do they not need as much protection since stuff is not built built yet?

Right.

It's it's we'll see an increase when houses go in.

Struggling in there has to be so many houses in the ground, right?

Before we can put private station on the ground.

So what's the 1474 now?

I I don't know if that's looking at it now.

But I know that uh once there's a certain amount of houses put it behind the building up, then that's when the black protection goes home.

I mean easy.

Do you have the answer?

I didn't hear anything.

We can maybe go on and come back if you want all of them.

Well, we'll follow up on our response.

I I would say that the budgets are prepared and estimating what they believe they are gonna need, so that would have been last year when we were preparing the budget what we believed that they would need because it's still for the same services.

It's gonna go it says it's our creation of the new uh MUD and then fire service and capital needs.

So going into next year, uh, this is what we are estimating that they will need.

So we can follow up in a follow-up on what specifically changed from the 169 to the 147.

Any other questions?

Representative district for mayor, just a statement, please.

Uh I I greatly support the the ambassadors program, and I'm concerned about cutting it back and reducing it to five days a week.

I'm afraid that the first after after a two-day off, that first day back might be might be tough.

Um there's there's roughly 40 agencies on these on these two pages, and and virtually every one of them touches the square one way or another.

The ambassadors not only pick up gum wrappers and and water bottles and remove graffiti and power wash, but they also deal with uh with people experiencing homelessness, and and I think that makes our downtown safer.

People who come to our community who don't know anybody in the community, see somebody in a red polo shirt and they trust that person.

And I think that's very, very important.

Uh I I get that the taxpayers don't want to don't want to fund that.

I get it.

Uh I get that the downtown merchants don't want to pay any more to get that, but I think this is a benefit that all of us have, and people that we don't even know who are coming here need that.

I I I greatly support the ambassador.

Thank you.

Okay.

Uh anyone else?

Are we having a portion of the discussion on?

We're going to do that.

It's not time.

I didn't assume that this was substitute.

Well, this is a hot funds discussion.

So it'd be hot funds.

They they made a decision, a recommendation better say, to allocate the 291 and 131 is being 131 that's being evaluated to research to see if it requires.

The ambassador program is in there at 291.

Yeah.

And we just it's in there as an appropriation, and we'll continue to work on does this meet eligibility to use hot funds.

So if you have a thought on the 290, this is a hot funds discussion.

Okay.

So just a question.

If we did not fund the ambassadors program, in theory, could we fund everything else at the request?

Uh I don't believe so.

At the about I mean, it would leave $300,000 that could be reallocated, uh, but it wouldn't satisfy everyone at 100%.

And the goal was not to fund everyone at 100%, since we did a rubric scoring on how are they meeting that tour promotion of tourism.

But surely we can get closer, so we can do what 75-80% of the entire request.

No, it would be eligible.

The community partnership could reallocate funding if they chose to do so.

Sure, sure.

Um Sadizy No Turkey Truck.

I don't know.

Um what I guess for me is not necessarily whether or not we should fund it.

It's who should fund it, who should pay for it.

The thing that I have heard about the ambassadors program is that no one thinks that it is bad, but people in other parts of the city are concerned that they don't necessarily want to pay for it since it doesn't have a direct benefit to them.

That's different than a road in a different part of the city because we can go drive to the road, but not everyone is directly benefits from the ambassador's program.

Our perspective is that everyone can come downtown, everyone should feel safe, and everyone should take advantage of the clean streets and whatnot.

But what I hear in the community is that if I'm in district, you know, Pecan Creek, I might not always go downtown.

I don't know that I want my tax dollars to be funding a program which directly benefits downtown businesses.

I understand why the downtown businesses don't necessarily want to appropriate a portion of their tax dollars to it, but they are the ones who do get the most benefit from it.

So I guess it's uh it's a catch-22 where I guess I'm not I guess I'm not giving direction.

I'm just saying that if we could get closer on funding some of these requests at a higher percentage or funding some of the ones that are unfunded, I might prefer to do that and look for ambassador program money elsewhere.

The other question I have is uh to council member Holland's point, five days a week.

Um how did we come up with that?

Was that was that just a program that they offered or did we request that and then they came up with the potential funding for that?

Does that make sense?

No, we asked for options uh because knowing that our recommendation was to discontinue the program, yeah.

Uh we asked for different funding levels that could be considered.

So at the lowest level, so they already have this tier.

They've given us several options yet, the community partnership evaluated, and they selected 291, which is the lowest uh service level days of the week in the country.

Okay, but that doesn't mean I mean when they say five days a week, and I know the busiest times are on the weekend.

Yeah, we'd get to choose the Saturdays.

Uh that doesn't mean that we can't say, well, we want to only do uh Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday kind of thing, and Monday, or you just have a day in between.

That was you can pick the schedule so that the day that the city is downtown is not as busy, which is during the week, and look at what events are they can they can go around that.

Not saying that's the best solution, I'm just saying it isn't set that Saturdays and Sundays would be the only to cut any easy.

This is a true this is a tier that they offered us.

How much flexibility is uh is it exists in that what I'm asking is could we come back in theory and say, hey, we only want Friday and Saturday and Sunday.

I mean, I assume that they want our business, everything is on the table, right?

Yeah, I think what's important for this conversation is that contracting with it's always a two-step process.

So right now we're talking about do we want to have the allocation, the expenditure authority always then there's a second conversation of what we want the service to look like as we bring back the contract.

So they don't have to be married together today.

Today we're talking about do you want to move forward exploring?

Can this continue to be funded at this level from hotel occupancy tax plans?

Representative District 6.

I'll try to be fast.

I know we need to move along.

Um what is the Texas filmmakers and how are they drawing people here?

I saw this sizeful amount and I was unfamiliar with them.

It's the Inline Film Festival.

Okay, copy that.

Alright, second, I would say that I I too have well.

I have concerns that we were funding the county office of history and culture at 300.

I went from 300,000 to zero.

Um that that just didn't seem fair.

I think some kind of step down would be more appropriate.

They are our partners, they are in Denton.

Uh they do uh play a big role in the center of Denton, and I I don't support going from 300,000 to zero uh with our partners there, um, and and what shock waves are going to be felt from that.

Uh and then lastly, as far as the ambassador program, I am on board with uh the scaled down version.

Um the square is the center of culture, it's the center of community gatherings, it is um where our conventions are bust to uh when they come to embassy suites when people come in from out of town, this is where they go.

So, although the square is not everywhere across the city, the square is the focus of the city and where it's our front porch, it's our um gazebo, it's our it's where it's at the center of what is happening, and it is um I think of the utmost importance.

And as far as the businesses choosing not to add into the ambassador program, the feedback I've heard is it's just not financially possible.

It's not that they wouldn't do it, it's that the square in in the areas around the square, which it also benefits even if it's just the square uh being treated uh by the ambassador program.

Um has some of the highest rents, which means the highest insurance, which uh it has some of the highest costs.

So I don't think we can just assume that businesses are refusing because they want to make another dollar and don't want to participate in something that benefits them.

I think we should give some of them the benefit of the doubt, like Chestnut Tree, like you know, some of these places that are uh have very thin margins and want to stay where they are, but it is just not possible for them to pony up this, and I don't believe that it just helps the square businesses uh at all.

I I think it helps the entire community, so I'm in favor of it.

And sorry, trying to be brief.

Thank you, Mayor.

I do want to echo that though, that that was not their sentiment, and I hope we didn't communicate that or come across as that.

It wasn't no, we don't want a PID ever, it was just not at this time.

I was holding my hot uh comments because I thought that it was on a different slide.

Um, just so just to add to the ambassador program comments.

I mean, I also see it as a benefit to the city as a whole.

Remind me the downtown service is just related to downtown property taxes and not sales tax, correct?

Right.

So that is our economic engine of the city.

It is a tourism center when somebody says I'm gonna go to Denton, usually it's probably for a tourism reason, it's usually somewhere in the downtown area, something relating to that.

Um so you know, if the city that or the downtown is a nice place to visit, it's clean.

I've been to places, cities where it was not clean, and I really didn't, wasn't excited to go back.

You know, so it is good to get people to return for tourism to increase the sales tax revenue of downtown.

Um so I do see the benefit of it, and I am and I also see the connection of hot funds to it because of the tourism component.

So I'm on board with trying out this new scale back option of paper with hot funds and just kind of see how we can maybe adjust it after that if it's working or not working.

Great.

Anyone else?

Mr.

Mayor.

One seconds.

Representative timing.

I want to remind everybody that hot stands for hotel occupancy tax.

How many of these agencies are able to bring human beings into Denton and spend the night at a hotel?

You're not coming to visit grandma and stay at her house.

You're coming to Denton for XYZ event and and you're staying in a hotel.

That's the that's the key here.

And if you're not, every one of these are wonderful, wonderful agencies and wonderful events.

I love every one of them, but not all of them are bringing human beings to spend the night in a hotel.

That was one symbol.

I wish you would have.

So if you look on the first page of special event funding, go down a few, it says Denton Halloween 2026, there's a typo that would be Halloween Texas.

2026.

So I'm disappointed that none of y'all caught that.

But it's okay.

And I got an IRO next year.

Next year when I'm not sitting here, I'm gonna hold you accountable to get that right.

And then um did you take a breath a little bit?

No, sir.

No, no, I powered straight through.

Uh then let's see.

Let me put that here.

Sorry, if you try cool on this slide, what's that?

So I I I'm curious about the total, the total recommendation.

I total sponsorship, I get it on that one column.

But the recommendation is it explicitly said that this is how much we're going to give them.

Let me ask it this way.

Is the in-con amount known when they allocate the recommendation?

To the committee, yes.

Uh to the applicant, no.

Okay.

Yeah, I I just I do yeah, okay.

Then if it's known in advance, I I just have questions about that.

I wonder if it should be, it should end and it should be deduced or reduced by that much, and then uh so the total, so for example, somebody's fully funded, uh, Black Film Festival at 62.5, maybe it should be 62.5 is a total, but if you're saying they go in knowing there's no in kind or there is in kind, then that answers uh my question.

Um and then um I I would like a report on sales tax generation.

Sorry, can I clarify?

I may have answered that incorrectly.

So the uh special event team works with those events to come up with those estimates on what they're gonna need for their application.

So it's not just a guess from the event organizers, they've worked with police to say this is how many officers we're gonna have, how many trash cans?

So what they're requesting is what they think they're gonna need, and then we come behind and say this is how much we can allocate.

I hope that yeah, I just wanted to make sure that if someone's getting, and I'll just keep it simple, if someone's getting $2 in in-time donations, that that is known before we allocate these other donations.

So if you're getting if you're getting five dollars total for what you've asked for, and then you're also getting the benefit of another $2 or a dollar or whatever in kind, then it's seven total, and we know that in advance, versus we're gonna give you this cash up front amount to five dollars, and then later it's tacked on to bump that number up unbeknownst to that committee.

No, the committee does see it all at one time, so we go through each of the sponsorships and then we prepare them where they can see in an entire perfect.

So, yeah, my request would be to see the sales tax generation by business in the current ambassador district because what I believe is, and I don't know if while I'm talking, someone can pull up a map.

Can you pull up a Google maps by chance of the square?

Because what I believe is the the majority of the sales tax generation is not generated on the square property.

And zero parking lots are on the square property.

So you're saying, so it's it you're you're you have these competing interests.

You're saying we want to bring people downtown.

I I don't even think when conventions come down here, they park the bus on the square property.

So you that you're and have we talked to the ambassadors about how they handle that?

If if someone calls for help on Cedar Street, do they just say, hey, that's out of my zone?

You got to call 311?

That's really weird.

Have we talked about how that meshing works?

Because right now it's so vast that you don't have that problem.

Have we processed through what a day in a life is going to look like and what we're proposing, or are we just winging it?

Well, I mean, we're not winging it, but we will be able to work through those conversations on how we're gonna handle that with a boundary change.

Yeah, so I would think we would go through that before we suggest it, right?

Like we that I think those are some of the things we would have to have in our pocket right now to discuss before because we're we're discussing something that that is it's not steeped in reality.

So anyway, that I'd like to see the sales tax.

Um, and then it it creates a business class conflict because imagine this.

So who do we have here from DME?

No one.

Okay.

The I'll represent it to be true.

You tell me if I'm wrong.

What we had was when Winterstorm Ure happened, there were certain neighborhoods that stayed with power because of their location and the zone they're in.

And then when you had a retail market that they put that house on sale, they were advertising, hey, my house is directly connected, not gonna be turned off.

You is that ring true to you?

I know there were certain ones that did not turn off because of their proximity to a fire station or hospital, but uh yes, and and so that's the case.

So you have the same thing here.

You'll have hey, I have a business on the square proper, I'm gonna charge you more rent because you have this resource that we're providing for free.

So you you create a class system on a square, and you create a market where a potential property owner just says, Hey, well, I have this extra service that's provided for free and are at no cost to me, so I'm gonna charge you more rent.

And so I I don't like pinning business against business.

Um and to the question about more rent and or or the increased costs, I'll tell you this.

Nowhere in downtown do they have parking requirements, correct?

Correct.

So where a business has to build a parking lot, they have to pay money.

They they pay more than downtown businesses.

That's how we get cheat and chong downtown because they didn't have to pay for parking, they didn't have parking accounts.

So downtown benefits just as much as it costs and stuff.

So they're that you know they're not having to pay for parking and all those things.

So they they benefit, and and again, no one's saying it's not a good program.

Uh that's not the case, just as we can vifurcate hot funds, what they should be used for, all mobile causes.

That's what we've heard.

Like, hey, these are all great organizations and all great services, but we gotta figure out how to pay for it.

And then this is interesting.

So you look at the square proper, right?

If we're covering the square proper, the new theater is coming online.

When is that new theater coming online?

I just started construction and they'd estimated a 12 to 18 months, so next next year.

Next year.

So imagine this, and again, this is just thinking through what we're proposing in actuality.

So the new theater that comes online would be would benefit from what's proposed in the downtown ambassador program.

One block the other way, and just on the other side of Cedar Street, Canvas Theater, who's been here forever, who's served very well, gets left out in the cold.

No, we're not coming to your business.

But this brand new business that just happens to face this way, you're in.

This business is a legacy business, you're out.

And isn't our isn't it our express goal to our plan is to expand people to walk off the square?

Like we want to get people industrial streets humming.

We need to get hickory the other way, and the other way going to generate more foot traffic, but we're not gonna have a clean environment for them.

They just, hey, you got to walk through this trash, and then you get to the square proper, and it's it's great.

That that then incentivizes what we're against.

We're we're for spreading people out, and then we're we're creating an environment where people coalesce around the square.

It just it conflicts with what we said we want to do, and it conflicts with there's no parking cover.

Um then uh yes, the other report I need to to wrap up is I need a report on arrest and that in an ambassador zone, and I guarantee you the vast majority will be off the square proper.

And so I'm not talking about encounters, I'm talking about actual arrests.

That's a more severe issue, and where did those happen?

So obviously to restate.

I'm not for giving them 291,000 because we don't have a plan.

We don't know how that's got that handoff is gonna be.

I don't want to incentivize a class issue on the square.

I want to take that money and I want to reallocate it to um the county and uh uh look at others and reevaluate the same criteria, but for sure the county, and then um I I want to uh go back to the businesses and say, Hey, you need to allocate, or we'll take the rest of it and put it to something else too.

Mayor point of clarification for the rest in the square area.

No, no, no, in the ambassador footprint.

In the current ambassador footprint, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Okay, we have 30 minutes left, so we will quickly move through the capital budget.

Uh just quick fund that says capitalist fund.

It is proposed to have the one million dollar transfer in from the general fund.

The focus of this funding is those headquarters grants, various economic development cash grants that are separate from the sales tax and uh property tax rebates.

Sustainability has the proposed uh budget with a one million dollar allocation from that general fund revenue.

So do you have a million dollars worth of projects identified as supported by the sustainability framework advisory committee?

And our streets improvement fund is the other special revenue fund we had called out in detail because it does receive that funding.

Uh it is 2.5 million dollars from the uh general fund, which is a smaller portion of their revenue source.

The tree fund uh was a result of a two-minute pitch item.

The request during it was just to look at how are the actions that are being carried out with this budget contributing towards the tree canopy goal.

Uh so we have included this slide in the budget presentation.

It talks about of the proposed budget, how many trees will be planted, and how these actions directly tie to increasing the future tree canopy.

I'm gonna quickly move through the capital improvement budget.

You saw this at a July work session.

So we are talking about the 552 billion and planned new funding.

It is a mix between our general government projects, our bond programs, our utility funds, and our enterprise funds, including our utilities in the airport.

It is a mix of several funding sources.

We have revenue funded projects, geo bonds, certificates of obligation, various federal and state loan programs, and impact fees make up our capital improvement program.

You've seen this chart multiple times, but it is the 2023 bond program and showing what we have planned for our 2026 issuance, which is on the Rudel Mingo Roadway, the Oakland Street Drainage Project, the concrete for phases three and four, and then a public art component, which is tied to those vertical construction public safety projects, the two fire stations and the um animal shelter.

Okay, uh, so discussion and next steps.

We received and we'll tally up that um priority order on those additional considerations.

Uh we're looking for any feedback on the tax rate.

We have one thing to follow up on for the mayor, and then a few things on the special revenue funds.

Uh, one thing we want to quickly show you if you pull it up.

We do have the public feedback platform on the proposed budget that we'll launch early next week.

Uh, and it gives our residents an opportunity to weigh in on the budget discussion.

Uh, one thing I really want to highlight is that Jacob, who is an intern for us at the city, he is here.

He built this from scratch.

He talked to the government that we call it.

He was costing us $12,000, and he was able to whip this out in what eight hours?

I asked for can we just put an Excel spreadsheet up there that people can type in and decoded an entire program in three hours?

Uh so we will have this slide.

He did a fantastic job.

Uh, residents can go in and adjust that spending, they can increase the tax rate to show additional revenues, so then they can submit their comments, so we will track all of that and provide that information back to council on the public feedback on the budget process.

Thanks.

Okay, so we will be back quickly on the 19th to go over all of the general fund proposed rates and fees.

We'll go over the enterprise funds, all the utilities and airport.

Uh, we will follow up on all of the questions that we need to follow up on today to provide those answers back.

We have the intent to set the tax rate, and then on September 16th, we have the budget and tax rate hearing.

Uh, one item I kind of skipped over.

Is it in prior budget years?

There was a request for a line item budget, so we will be providing that information also, the individual line items.

Uh, that's the end of the presentation.

Happy to answer any additional questions.

Yeah, and before we go to do you want to talk about when you may have already touched on it and I missed it, but uh, do you want to talk about the not to exceed rate?

We got to go through that machination for those that hadn't or maybe a refresher, right?

Because we have a vote on it's going to be no more than this, but that's not what it is.

So can you talk about that phasing?

Um, I don't know if I'm the best person, maybe Cassie.

Sorry.

So you we where we we have to vote on a not to exceed right the maximum, but that's not the vote.

That's to come back, and just because if people have questions and and just to make sure everyone's on the same page, is what the process is.

So um at the next council meeting on the 19th, we will bring what we call the max tax rate.

Um you are simply stating that this is the maximum the council will adopt.

We you will not we were not allowed by law to go over that tax rate once it's adopted or uh voted on.

Um, and so what we typically do is we allow just some cushion just in case uh as we're calculating those rates, um, some things change going through the calculation.

So it's the the max tax rate allowable by law.

You'll adopt you'll vote on the ordinance on the 19th, and then during the budget process, you will actually adopt the final tax rate, which will be less than the max tax rate voted on.

Great.

Thank you.

Appreciate that clarification.

Okay, questions for then representative issue two.

This is just initial.

I may have more questions depending on what everyone else says.

Uh slide 29, just one little clarification question.

Under expenditures, reconstruction and neighborhood street reconstruction are separate.

What's the difference between those two?

Um that reconstruction is things that are um part of our OCI, the streets um maintenance and operations.

The neighborhood street constructions are those reconstructions that are tied to the 2019 bond program specifically.

So they were planned as part of that bond program.

The other ones are things that we've identified through our street maintenance and operations program.

And explain two different types of money basically.

Yeah, right.

The OCI rate.

So that's how we rate our streets, council adopted our given as direction to try to meet a 70 OCI, so it goes from a scale from zero to a hundred.

Our target is 70.

The 2019 bond program really focused on the streets that were less than 40 OCI.

Um, and and we have a neighborhood approach, so we're not just trying to do the streets, we're trying to look at the sidewalks, um, the water and wastewater lines that needed to be replaced in those areas.

So we're trying to come in to the neighborhood one time, get everything done, and then and then be done.

So the difference here is really just the source of the money basically.

Yes, it's it's this funding is um it's passing through the street improvement fund.

Um it's get trying it gets transferred to the capital uh to a capital project, but it's really additional revenue funding that we are using to supplement the 2019 bond program.

So we're not issuing GOs to complete that.

We because we have a cap that was voted on by the the voters.

Um, and so this is just additional revenue funding that we're using to supplement to complete those projects.

That makes sense.

Thank you.

Representative for district two.

Thank you.

Um just just for some clarity on page uh 28.

Um the uh the sustainability fund uh a million is encumbered.

It's it's in it's in process.

A million, they have a million dollars of identified projects.

Okay.

And and we have or have not encumbered them for purchase, or they're currently planned, or do we know?

They're planned, and uh there are there is some encumbrances, but the entire million is not okay, and then uh on 29, the next one.

Um I I'm gonna appraise and then ask an impact in in the next thing.

Um, I think the complete streets approach that we're doing, trying to get everything in these segments and and top to bottom, but it's great.

There's a learning curve for our community as they understand what it means to you know to put a temporary patch back down while we go through these layers.

And and I I'm very sympathetic to Seth and others that are having to go through that.

We do have some standout places in our community where there's been some pronounced delays, and and um we also had some asphalt issues, and because this is the budget time, I don't know what else to ask it, but when do those when do the are we estimating the costs to the city for some of these you know one-year project that became three-year projects, and what's that what that's costing us?

I you know, um, I can think of a couple of idiots that are that are pretty famous, and then um, do we have um I I think the answer you uh from a few months ago that we we when we go back and review streets um and they and they do the one-year 18-month evaluation that they're most of those costs are on the vendor, but there is a still a I can see that we don't pay any additional asphalt, you know, costs or something like that.

So we're that project on paper won't look like it costs anymore if it takes 18 months to go back and redo as well because it immediately cracked or something like that.

But do we have any estimates on the the our larger budget were what those delays cost?

And that's why I'm putting these two questions together.

What do delays cost us, and do we have any estimates on what those kinds of delays cost us?

And I realize that's a it's a complex question, so it may need to come back.

And so I'm not asking you unless you just know the answer what that is right at the moment, but if we could get back with these, you know, what a six-month delay, what a year delay, whatever what these things cost us uh in terms of economic impact, uh, and why we we want to be Johnny on the spot and getting these these projects done under their ETAs that they originally uh set to.

And and uh still on this side um this the all these costs are for these high I uh of these low OCI streets, but we have we tend to bundle our side paths in with our street projects, and our side path OCIs are different than our street OCIs.

So I would I would love some clarity on how we propose fixing our sidewalks at their OCI levels because they may not match our streets, and sometimes we have good streets and bad sidewalks, and vice versa.

And and so um again, that's not that's a real complex question, so I don't expect an answer now.

Uh final question is on the tree um page 30, slide 30.

And we we're planning about 3200 trees a year, uh, is is what I'm um reading, but I'm a little confused.

Let me get to that slide, sorry.

Um is that under where that's under our operations expenses, our our interfund transfers?

Where is the actual tree costs going into um in terms of the expenditure line items and um some of that I know will be salary for the staff to plant the tree?

But I'm I'm trying to parse sort of how we're parsing the cost of these 3200 trees and how they're lining up with our fund categories.

Does that make sense?

It does.

We'll follow up with the exact breakdown, um, but the majority of the funding in there, both in operations and transfers are the actual planting of the trees.

Um you anticipated my question is are we mostly spending our money getting trees?

Because that's the goal of the tree fund and the and the canopy goal that uh um former council meltzer uh put this up for and that we all agreed to was are we getting more trees if we're spending a lot on ancillary things, and and I don't want to put salary into that because that's not fair to the staff, but if we're how are we making sure that we're getting the maximum number of trees put into the ground kind of argument?

Yes, we'll follow up because there's two components.

We have the the key to in beautiful, so the tree giveaway that's one component, and then the trees that we're actually planting, but it is minimal personnel services out of this, like maybe a thousand dollars for seasonal help for KDB.

This is all tree planting.

Yeah, uh no, I that's that's great.

Um so I I know the a lot of complex answers, but I I got that one.

I'll take that one as the answer.

But if you if you want to follow up with more complex answer, uh, and I think I'm good.

Thank you, Mr.

Brandt.

Anyone else?

Summary feedback or questions.

See none.

Oh, sorry, okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

May we have this thing?

Yes.

Um this has been a tough year for us and for staff because of the outcome of the financial situation.

And I just I do want to take the time to recognize Christine who led this after she knew that uh our chief financial officer was leaving, and then we have a plethora of our department heads who formed a group to go through the reductions, say which ones were more important versus others, and it was fire employees were involved in this, it meant everyone having to give up.

Um staff, the team and budget.

Um this was uh truly a tough year for us.

I mean, when we have money to move around, it's not so difficult.

But I I want to thank them because this is truly um a good budget.

It's it's not an easy budget.

It's uh it's it was a tough one, and it's uh reflective of the hard work.

So just wanted to thank everybody and the committee that did the partnership allocations and all the other things that come along with it.

Um it just takes a it you know, it takes a village to do it, and thank everybody for doing it.

Thanks to the directors and the staff who work so hard on it.

And our directors are gonna leave us now because they don't they gotta they want to take the rest of their Saturday and spend it with their family.

So appreciate all y'all's work.

Uh you've we've done a yeoman's job, and um we'll get through it next year.

Hopefully, we'll be a lot longer.

Appreciate y'all ever.

Quick project break, and we'll be back at uh I doubt that's gonna happen.

Okay, and uh so the next item is so we're back, and the next item is item B.

IB251201.

Superport whole discussion give staff direction regarding municipal finance bills, municipal finance bills on the 89th legislature special session.

And uh thanks, sir.

Morning.

I'm Logan Spence with Hans Scarborough.

Uh good to be back in uh and uh good to see you, Mr.

Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem, good to meet you the first time, Council members, good to see you again.

Um I am uh in town to give you uh special session update uh and to talk about in particular the property tax bills that uh are not moving or not moving uh in uh in Austin right now.

So high level uh about the special session we're in it started uh July 21.

Uh it's going to end on uh August 19, which is 10 days from now.

Um there uh the Democrats have left the state uh in order to break quorum.

So the House hasn't been able to conduct business uh for the last several days.

So uh as of well, they'll be gather gavbling in in five minutes.

Uh so we'll see if that holds.

Uh all expectations are it will hold, and uh the house will continue not to have enough right now.

They only need five.

Uh so there's a handful of democrats that have stayed, uh, but they need a total of 12 Democrats, and right now uh they're down to just missing five.

So uh there's some people optimistic about having a quorum and conducting business in the house starting Monday, but uh recent events uh make that sound less likely as pressure mounts, uh uh look litigation begins, uh punishments, penalties get put in place.

I think it'll be become more entrenched of uh the situation.

Uh the House has filed 293 bills and 36 uh constitutional amendments.

The Senate has filed 73 bills and three constitutional amendments.

And um the uh a lot of the biggest issues on the agenda right now uh relate to disaster preparedness as a result of the flooding that occurred uh in the Hill Country on July 4th.

Uh congressional redistricting uh along with several other other issues, including regulation of hemp derived products.

Um so the Senate has passed many of these bills and moved them over to the House.

Uh the House has been able to receive them, but hasn't taken any action on any of them.

Um the Senate will take up redistricting on Tuesday, uh likely uh several of the flooding bills on Wednesday.

So the Senate can continues to chip away at the special items that have been put on the agenda by the governor uh and the house has not been able to move forward.

So that's uh the high level situation.

I wanted to uh focus a lot of our time uh on SB9 by Senator Betancourt.

Uh this was voted out uh of the Senate uh just this last week.

Um right now it uh it it it changes the voter approval tax rate from 3.5%, as y'all were discussing earlier today, moves it down to 2.5 percent.

Initially it exempted cities under 30,000, and then the committee substitute they wrote they increased that to 75,000.

So cities under 75.

I sent Christy a list of the cities that that uh affected uh on um uh it's about I forget maybe 40, maybe 50 or so cities, not that many, but I'm not sure which one was the crucial city in there to uh merit that amendment, but um it passed out of committee four to one.

Senator Molly Cook, Democrat out of Houston was the no vote.

The Senate passed it on a vote of 18 to 3, and uh Senator Chewy Hinahosa, Senator Zafarini, and the loan Republican Senator Perry was the no vote on the bill.

So it'll go over to the House.

Uh but importantly, HB9, which is the filed companion to SB9, uh has not been referred.

So that's an interesting signal out of the House.

The House, of course, has always been a little less motivated to pass bills like this, and that seems to be the signal at this time.

But uh now that Senate bills come over, we'll see what they do with it.

Uh, if this you know in a decrease from 3.5 to 2.5%, I'm sorry, 2.5% uh passes, uh, that's gonna affect your general fund by a reduction of almost $800,000.

As you know, 51% of your general fund goes to the police and fire, and uh that revenue loss could mean as much as five city uh civil service positions.

Um you've got a great story to tell to these legislators who are pushing this bill because you've adopted a rate at least one cent lower than the voter approval rate every year for the past five years, and we've communicated that with your delegation and legislative members uh on this uh on this bill, but um as you as you can see didn't have much effect, and the Senate's rolling on uh and we'll move our focus to the House side depending on what happens.

If they get a quorum, if they start doing business, if they refer the legislation to the committee that's gonna handle this, we'll continue to ratchet down and increase our uh our efforts with that.

Um there's other legislative proposals that uh have been filed on property taxes, and this one is a limit on annual expenditures for cities and counties.

Uh basically try to put a cap of population and inflation on how much your expenditures can grow.

And you can exceed that by voter approval on a uniform election day.

Uh or there's some wiggle room given uh for disasters and if the disaster declaration is is given.

So certain revenues uh like uh bond revenues and gifts are excluded, but importantly, uh neither one of the House bills on this have been referred to a committee either.

So we'll see what what that changes or not.

Um so put some interesting information together on this issue about Denton, uh fast growing area limits would apply to a lot of sources of revenue, including enterprise systems, uh special purpose districts, and as you know, enterprise system revenue, water, wastewater drainage, electric, uh these things are not uh driven by population or inflation but more by market forces.

So that's uh that's a message we're trying to deliver to legislators as well.

So uh as we move forward, uh we're with Christy and I are coordinating constantly, and uh we discuss options all the time.

What do we how do we respond?

What do we do?

Um and right now we've been registering uh our position on uh SB9.

Uh we registered opposed to the bill and communicated the data behind our opposition of that bill to your delegation members, Senator Parker and Senator Hagen Boot.

Um but as we move forward, uh the options to ratchet up our opposition include many things like sending a letter from the city council, uh requesting meetings, phone calls with legislators and delegation members, um, having some of you uh come to town and participate in the hearing uh to speak to the issue.

Um we should also consider encouraging allied organizations, fire, police, TML TAC to continue to work the delegation members and or to start, and then finally uh reach out to our local media to explain what's going on, what the concerns are, give you a chance to talk about the positive uh decisions you've made in the past about uh taxes, property taxes.

in the hearing uh to speak to the issue uh we should also consider encouraging allied organizations fire police tml tech to continue to work the delegation members and or to start and then finally um reach out to our local media to um explain what's going on what the concerns are giving you a chance to talk about the positive uh decisions you've made in the past about uh taxes property taxes so i was going to discuss uh what happened during the regular legislative session a little bit as you know um several bills did pass on property taxes the uh legislature increased the personal business personal property tax exemption from 2500 to 12500 uh they increase the homestead exemption from 100 000 to 140 000 and then um finally they uh they raised uh the value for 65 year old exemption to 200,000 uh but the governor and lieutenant governor and the speaker are all intent on continuing to find ways to lower property taxes it's always a major issue on voters' minds so um they're gonna be continuing to look for those ideas so one of those that was kicked around last session was um limiting debt and what a city can issue debt for uh it failed to pass out of the committee uh but it would have prohibited a city from authorizing debt if it would uh exceed 20 percent of the average amount of property tax collection this is uh a significant impact on the city of Denton as your tax collection 20 percent of your tax collection is 18.2 million and as you can see your um your total annual debt is estimated around 50 million so this would be a significant problem uh it didn't move out of committee so that's the good news but a little more detail is the codified types of uh projects that a city can issue debt for it went on to especially prohibit the use of certificates of obligation for certain projects as you can read some of that list and then um required an election to authorize general obligation bonds or approve an increase in your tax rate on the November election so um that um that's kind of the the broad picture of what's going on and I don't know what we're facing and property tax issues happy to take questions or thank you questions for SAF sirpresent from district six then two so um I mean I I guess some of the you know looking at both sides of their rationale of wanting to help the citizens of the state of Texas afford things however as a city council person you wonder how are we gonna pay for things that are necessary um what is the rationale behind these would you say I mean I just want to understand so that when I speak to someone I can articulate why sure uh the legislature spent a ton of money I wish I had the figure on lowering school property taxes MO they're using the state's general fund to buy down school property taxes so as they keep ratcheting down that amount the amount of uh of the property tax burden from cities and counties uh becomes larger because they're buying down school property taxes which is the largest amount the largest portion of property taxes so their argument is we're doing so much to lower property taxes and the cities and counties uh portion of that property tax burden is growing so we gotta put more restrictions on how much they can levy and um and on a larger you know perspective uh property taxes is always you know number two number three issue on voters' minds so they want to show responsiveness proactivity on property taxes and they're gonna continue looking at revenue caps debt caps um appraisal caps what all these things and um and seeing what sticks I think that's I think that's why this is going on hopefully we can find some magic to make money to pay probably thank you um no Jill I really appreciate you asking that question I have a very similar question is you you have to know what your what your what the logic is so that you can insert in that in that process um it is costly for us to hold elections um for service increases that are sort of commensurate with existing community will and population growth so it feels in some way uh having uh an election which somebody correct me I think it's like 50 60 grand an election to have an election is that about right 90 90 910 okay so it you know it's it's on

It is costly for us to hold elections for service increases that are sort of commensurate with existing community will and population growth.

So it feels in some way having an election, which somebody correct me.

I think it's like 50, 60 grand an election to have an election, is that about right?

90?

90?

9100.

Okay.

So it, you know, it's it's on order of a hundred thousand to host an election.

And if I mean we do some of those elections every every time, but but you know, it's it's problematic to have one for for COs all the time for regular ordinary services.

And so I I wonder if we brought if if that has been brought up to the legislatures, do they have any response to that?

That we're essentially throwing additional money after the same activity, making that same activity even more costly.

Absolutely.

You know, uh that's that these uh the cost, the local government cost and and that financial burden is uh required to be included in the bill analysis that's that's done on each one of these bills, and it's part of what they consider when they take these votes.

So they understand that.

That's why most of the time these these elections are are required to be on a uniform election date.

The concept being these elections are happening already, so just throw this in there, but um they do consider the local cost, and um I guess that's uh that hasn't been compelling enough to to get them not to do these things.

And and I I guess the other question is is the one that you I want to follow up from again from what um uh council chester was asking, and and if if the target is school districts, and you know, this community supports our school districts to the nth degree, so I don't don't take anything.

Well if that is the target, then are we just painting with a broad brush and we're just taking all property taxes writ large, we're not the legislature's not interested in parsing city, county, and and other government bodies from from that one area, they're not interested in in providing solutions for that one area and not sledgehammering the other areas.

Yeah, I uh like I said, then that's a great story to tell.

You have kept property taxes low, um, and you haven't increased them uh much at all over the last five years at least.

Uh and we're giving that story, but they're also hearing stories from other parts of the state that don't have that kind of a record and are raising their tax rates while values are increasing.

So uh they you know, like I said, if if you put a statewide poll out to voters, uh particularly Republican voters that statewide uh leaders are looking at in particular, uh property taxes is always at the top, you know, and so they're trying to be responsible.

Uh I appreciate that.

Thank you.

That's all my questions, Mr.

Mayor.

Any other questions?

Uh I I just I I'll say this.

Uh I do as gently as possible, right?

You your assumption on hey, the police are affected if we have a $800,000 shortfall.

That could be anything, right?

I understand why we shift towards police because that's a compelling message, but I I'll I'll listen to the rest of the comments, but I'll tell you, I don't I don't if you think the city of Denton is a good model to stand on for fiscal responsibility over the last four years.

I I wonder if you have all the background information.

And because we are a right target.

We we align most with the city that that they would like to take over Austin.

Right.

So I don't know that we help those, and I was gonna pull up the the chart, but staff can pull it up.

We don't McKinney, Great Vine, Louisville, Louisville right next to us, is 412 cents.

Geographically right next to us.

The difference is they don't have the controversial things that we do, they don't have the waste that we do.

It just so I don't know that we're I I don't know that I align with we're a good, I think what we would do is enter that and mess it up for other people candidly.

I think what we would do is enter that and mess it up for other people candidly.

So I'll circle back, but I I just wonder if you've seen all the data.

Because I don't want you to walk into a buzzsaw.

No, I no, I appreciate that.

I uh I work for the city, and I'm here to gather the the messaging and the data and take it, you know, charge the hill with it and your defense.

Uh so if we need to if we need to change that messaging, uh I'm happy to.

I'll do that.

Yeah, no, I just I I don't know that you'll find another, I mean, and and I bang this drum a lot, but I think it's it's one worth banging.

Four million dollars in legal fees.

We're one of what five that got sued by the attorney general.

So the minute we go down there and say, oh, be like them, you know, it's just we're right for issues, and that's just the the legal issues, not to say the others spending.

And so when people are like, oh well, what about this?

What about that?

So uh the staff has done an amazing job, certainly, uh given those encumbrances to to maintain that line.

But yeah, so I I'll I'll have other comments, but though I wanted to just say I I love it as much as the next person, but I am absolutely frustrated with our spending, and we didn't get here in this budget issue on accident, it was decided decisions over the last few years to put us here.

We've had plenty of money.

The income is great, it's the spending that that's out of control, and and I think there is some value in tightening that up to force harder discussions so that you don't have this free-for-all, like, hey, I have a bunch of money, I can do a bunch of things.

I can afford to because we're we're one decision short from being a half million.

That's another 300,000 into lawsuit money, illegal fees, right?

And so it it it's it's I I don't I I love the city, love staff what they're doing, decisions.

We've had had some bad ones, and as a consultant said, you have every right to make bad decisions, you know, and so that I I believe we're not a good role model for this conversation.

Right.

That that's my concern.

But I I'll I'll listen to the comments, I'll have other thoughts.

Anyone else?

Will this cause will this cause a another special session?

I believe so.

I believe the quorum break is gonna stick.

Uh they just they just tried to give it line at 11 and they didn't have enough again.

So they're gonna come back at one on Monday.

Uh the Senate will come back on Monday as well and uh continue working.

Uh but yeah, I think I think this it's possible they could come back and everything's fine, but I don't think as this continues that the that they'll be coming back.

Now, that likely means there will be another special session.

Um I've heard that there, you know, the play is to just kind of slow this redistricting down uh so the calendar starts getting problematic for implementation for the upcoming election, which we've delayed elections in the past before and moved them back to May for the primary, so it's that's that wouldn't be the first time, but um I think their second special is very likely, and coming back to do redistricting plus many of these other items.

The governor did 18 items uh on the special this time.

So I think you're you're right that we are gonna see.

And and is the meter running right now.

I mean, we're we're we're we're wasting money spinning our wheels in the hopes that the Allinois Democrats come back to Texas.

Uh I think I think I remember reading somewhere it costs a million dollars a day for the legislature to meet.

Wow.

Uh so that a number is probably grown, but uh that's that is the situation for at least 30 days or 10 more representative district six.

Um I'm curious.

I mean, I only know what I've also read in the news as far as statements that the warm-breaking members could be expelled in their seats considered vacant.

Is there a general wisdom or uh what do you hear in this scuttle butt as far as is that legal?

Is that uh uh real possibility, or is that just uh a statement?

Um the attorney general uh has given an opinion in the past that that uh there is uh possibility of vacating the positions of legislators who have abandoned their their jobs, um and so uh attorney general and the governor have both filed petitions with the Supreme Court, Texas Supreme Court uh to make that move forward, but I don't know.

Would the governor be able to then appoint someone to fill that spot?

Would there be special elections or are they not that vacant seat is not considered in the calculation of form?

Uh I believe um there could be possibility of the governor putting someone in place uh temporarily until the special election is called.

Thank you.

It's it's kind of hard sometimes to parse uh what you're hearing from different people in the news, so I appreciate your take.

Thanks, ma'am.

Anyone else?

Representative district five.

Which um I'm gonna talk about 19 in a minute, but just generally, which delegation, which members of our delegation have you met with and accountable about what specific issues?

Um, like I said, Senator Parker and Senator Hagen Boo are your senators for the city of Denton, and we've shared this information about at least Cynthia 19, uh, as well as other matters over the course of the session about the house members.

House members we have been talking to and sharing the data as well.

There just hasn't been any hearings or bills being referred or moving, so uh the focus has been on where the action is this time.

So you've met with you've met with all the house members in person?

I have not met with all the house members in person because they don't have a quorum, they're not there on a daily basis.

Uh but I have been communicating with their staff.

Did you meet with them all in person during the regular?

Sir, with respect to 19 and staff, y'all can help me out with the exception of stadiums, arenas, convention centers, and the civic center because we have a we have a civic center already.

We do everything else with the with COs, right?

Generally speaking.

So revenue bonds.

At a high level from Logan's slide with 19, what things would be using CLs for that he doesn't have listed.

Technology vehicles, is that it?

Well, like an animal shelter, the libraries, the parks, stadiums, uh those kinds of things would be general obligation bonds.

But uh and same thing for airports and others, but we've used some COs though for vehicles and and technology.

Bottom line is it would limit us if you can't use it.

COs, we've used that for like technology uh vehicle replacement, things like that.

It's a lot for those kinds of projects, and usually general obligation bonds.

I assume this would come, this is gonna come back more than likely.

Um like I said, it didn't it didn't come out of the House committee last time because there's a house bill, so that's a good sign, but it will likely come back and we'll have to do the do the work.

What is our strategy for defeating if it is filed, we go to our members, go to the leadership and say this is gonna hurt us, the the 18 million cap versus the 50 million uh and tax supported debt here in the city of Denton.

We lay out these data points and and ask them to help.

Is that it?

Um there's all the all the variable uh advocacy tactics that I listed previously that as you decide as a council to do, we will do them.

Um and Christy help me if I'm if I'm incorrect on this.

This is this came from Tepper's original bill, right?

Correct.

I don't I couldn't answer if it came from TEPRES, which came first, but Temper did have HB 1453 from the regular session that was limiting COs, and there were several iterations of it that changed what projects were included and what weren't.

He's and he told us this was originally about cities of love it's yeah, his home county.

What's the populational vote?

Um I I'm not certain.

150 plus 600,000, I think.

Thank you.

I believe so.

Around that's not even.

I don't think it's I'm getting 27%.

252 300, that's all right.

No, okay.

I think to your point, Councilmember Mickey, on what our what our strategies is, our strategies would be if and when HB19 or something similar comes back.

One of the things that we have addressed as a council that you guys have given direction on is we understand that maybe there were issues with certificates of obligation being issued in perpetuity, and we are trying to right size our budget at this time and issuing less COs and being better taxpayer stewards.

So I think that would be a part of our messaging is explaining, yes, we understand you know we have been potentially a problem child for this in the past.

We recognize that, but we are currently trying to right size and be good stewards of our taxpayer dollars and showing the data for that and our current budget and our projections for the future uh would be a part of our strategy as well.

I guess my last question to you is what can we do to help you meet with our delegation in person?

I think those in-person conversations are crucial.

Yes, staff is important, letters are important, but until you or we sit down across the table from our legislature and really explain what's happening, I don't think we can effectively tell the city of getting story about where we were, where we are, and where we're going.

I know from from my time.

A lot of letters, they usually don't get read by the reps.

That's why they have staff.

Yes, I understand the sentiments and communicated, but those direct in-person conversations face to face matter more than anything, any ink on paper.

Absolutely.

And we we did a lot of that this last session.

I think you participated in all of those.

Um so as these bills get filed, start to be considered, you know, hearings happen, we will amp up our our engagement.

Uh certainly do include visits with you and even without you directly with the legislators.

Isn't that too late?

Um waiting until the bills get filed to amp up.

I mean, why couldn't these conversations be happening now, particularly while certainly during quorum break?

Our our entire county delegation is republican, they're all still there.

Couldn't some of these conversations be happening right now while no legislation is moving just in advance of legislation being filed in?

Certainly could uh and use this time during the interim leading up to the next regular uh to discuss some of these property tax issues and get ahead of it.

So I agree.

Anyone else?

Can you go to your activity?

No, advocacy tactics page, sir.

Okay, so let's that those are optional four if there's any.

I'll just say this.

I I'm not for any of those other than what you're normally doing because I I think it it was interesting when I reflect back on the the fracking ban we had here.

One of the people that were supportive of the fracking ban came to the council and said, Hey, we're asking you to pull it back because this is not the jurisdiction we want that decided.

That you know, they said, hey, we'll fight this fight on other fronts, but not here.

And I think that that parallels this any message you send around even what staff suggested, and I think that's right and proper to say, hey, we we are paying down debt, we are focused on not see CO funding things, we're moving in that direction.

But the timing of it to me is not doesn't put you in a strong negotiation standpoint because then they they will see that as oh, yeah, you're you're doing that under the threat of us lowering this cap ergo, we should lower this percentage to continue you or force you to think that way.

If the message doesn't say, hey, we're we're doing this independent of you, which is I believe to be the truth.

It'll be that you know these things are said uh and and done.

And now it's being done because we don't have any money.

If we had extra money, we'd be in the same boat, my guess, right?

Uh but because we don't have any money, it's forcing that action, and because the future prospect forces that action.

So I just don't think the target's good to do any of those things.

I think your normal advocacy is great.

Uh I think y'all's relationships and that sort of thing are great.

Uh I think the city staff focusing on doing those things is great, but I just think we're in a disadvantage when you have other cities that are similarly situated geographically, etc.

etc.

Uh, that that are in a much better financial position than we are, and and I think that's for a reason.

Um I I think there's there's value in again.

I'll use Lewis as an example.

I think there's value in Louisville having uh geographic requirements for where they're where their single member representatives live, they have geographic requirements, but they every election is at large.

So you have to live in this area, but every citizen's heard.

So I think there's just if we had something like that, some story to tell like that.

We I just don't think we have what we need to be successful in this argument.

Uh so I my direction would be that we stay the course and you do what you you and your team do what y'all have been doing.

Uh, but I that's that's the extent of it.

Just my my thoughts.

Any um anyone else on suggestions?

Representative district two.

Mr.

Mayor, are you wanting direction from the rest of us on this issue?

Well, it's on the slide.

We're doing it.

No, no, yeah, no, that's what they he stated that at the beginning, and no one, I mean, again, I I try to I'm not picking up I just try to follow the workflow.

No, no, I just yes, yes.

So he stated at the beginning.

Here's the things I I noticed no one talked about it, so I'm circling back and making because what I I could have just closed this out and left and moved to the next thing.

Uh, but I didn't, I'm I could I could see Christie's brain being like, hey, they didn't give us direction, or they didn't speak to these things, or wasn't spotlighted, even though they did a good job.

Uh so I'm trying to circle back and say, hey, everyone that spoke didn't give direction on where they fall on these things, pull the slide back up and let's focus and let the chips fall what it may.

Completely fair.

Thank you for for clarifying that.

If you if you don't mind since I have the floor, um, I I to the extent that I can participate in any of those bullets.

Um, please let me know.

I'm I'm ready, willing, and able to to participate in whatever works best.

So I'll see you like that.

Is this I heard you say keep doing what you're doing?

This is the extent of what you're doing, correct?

Uh no, we're not doing all of these things.

Which ones are you doing just like understand where we are?

There wasn't a signed letter from the council.

Uh we do meet with uh legislators and their staff, so that is happening.

Um, if there is a hearing in the house, you'll have the option to decide if you want to come and testify.

Uh do you want to encourage allied organizations to get more engaged or continue to be engaged?

You know, that's that's your call, and of course, you know, the media uh that's that's gonna need to be a very deliberate uh decision as well for this body.

So you know I'm I'm happy to work with the city of Denton.

We have enjoyed the relationship, and and uh and I hope it continues.

Uh, but I do what you what the council wants me to do, and Christy helps me filter that, uh, of course.

But um, you know, I've we can launch, you know, all uh release the hounds and do all of these things, but it's gotta be a direction I get from from Christy and the council, of course.

I'll just add these advocacy tactics are focused more on the front facing.

Um Logan and I are constantly working on the back end of things, having conversations with legislators, their staff.

So our advocacy never stops.

This is more advocacy for council to consider.

And we don't need direction from council, these are just the options available, should you wish to provide direction.

Okay.

Um are we posted for direction?

Let's go, yes.

Yes, yes, okay.

So of the five things up there, we're currently only doing number two.

We are meeting with staff and legislators, yes, sir.

Um, and you know, we attend the committee uh committee hearings as well.

We register uh and we registered against SB9.

Uh, and when it had a hearing in the Senate.

So okay, so um my direction will be yes, let's do all those things.

I hear you saying that this is front end, and you're having those conversations on the back end.

But what I just asked, has he met with our legislators individually?

I didn't get a specific answer.

When I suggested this is the time to be having those in-person conversations, he agreed.

I'm not sure if that's happening, and that is a major concern to me.

So my additional direction would be in the interim before those things are filed, please have these conversations in an ongoing in-person manner, so that we don't have to wait until it's filed.

So that our delegation knows us like the back of their hand on the front side, because we then need our delegation to go talk to the other members in the House and the Senate about what we're doing.

The best way we can get them to do that is to constantly educate them about where we are, where we were, where we're on, where we're going.

So it's those conversations that I wish were happening even out of session, between sessions, special sessions during quorum break.

So that when we get in the session, it's just a simple reminder.

Hey, remember that conversation we've had ten other times?

See what I'm saying?

Yes, sir.

Thank you, Mayor, for uh bringing us back around to these advocacy tactics.

Um do appreciate that.

Um I'm doing all of them.

Uh if it's gonna make any kind of difference, you know, in the direction for us on the why not.

So uh getting that letter ready, and I'm ready to send it.

And going directly to our members, you know, we're ready to do that as well.

We can do that.

I am um, you know, when I think about Denton and our uh public awareness, we just have so many more so many newcomers, newcomers into our city.

Um you know, people that are coming from around the country, moving here, they're not really into what's happening, you know, in the city.

So uh we have to depend on our local media, uh, all that social media stuff to help drive this public awareness.

We have a great uh communications team here in our city.

Um, and I like for us to get that data out there to those folks, the ones that are you are the eagle-eyed people that we depend on to help us um make decisions, and they're there, we appreciate them to help us push this out there so everybody can be aware.

I'm just not um really understanding how people cannot know uh you know, especially people that are representing us that we that they just they cannot know that we're gonna be struggling here.

We're sending a broad message to our community that we're gonna be struggling.

Just look at this conversation about special, you know, special funding for special things.

That was that's a hard conversation.

Um so driving public awareness, I like to make that a priority, uh, of course, along with everything else, but I think that that for me, this is just the education piece uh for this.

So thank you very much.

Anyone else?

Representative from District 6 4 Hair Protection.

Um I'll just say that I know that uh bills passing or not passing is not always straightforward why they pass or why they don't pass, it's not always two equals four.

So my direction would be that you use your expertise uh and experience in the field, uh, and I would be in favor of what you believe would have the right effect.

Um sometimes it's not always a sledgehammer, sometimes it's behind the scenes is really the only way to sway things.

So uh that would be my direction, is that um of the tactics, any or none that you think is in the best interest of our city as opposed to not leaving us in the right direction or making us someone that they want to avoid.

So thank you.

Representative from District 4.

Two questions, please.

First of all, do you think that letters get much attention?

Um I think they can.

Uh you got to get it to the right person, and it's gotta be uh I would say pithy.

Um data is important, facts are important.

Uh so if it's if it's written well to the extent that it's informative and it's delivered to the right person at the right time, I think it can be helpful.

Okay.

Uh I I have I personally have not been impressed with our delegation sending representatives to talk with us.

I've not been impressed with that interchange.

Uh, if if we could if we could have a uh eyeball eyeball discussion with members of our of our delegation, I think that would be one thing.

Otherwise, I think I think that's just uh uh an exercise if you tell us.

I don't I don't see the benefits of that.

Sure, you know, we're in a special session.

You know, we're in a special session.

The governor has said do something on property taxes.

The Lieutenant Governor is has said this is the bill.

Uh it's come out of the Senate 18 to 3 with one Republican against it.

Uh and that kind of a you know situation that we're in, uh, it's hard to have an impact on a bill given that amount of political weight.

Uh so I think I understand it just seems to lose something in translation between here and and getting to the the ear of the of that elected official.

Sure.

And you know, as an elected uh people yourselves, you understand you know, you're talking to voters every day, just like state reps and senators and so are they hearing my property taxes are too high?

Probably.

Um, and they need to do something as well.

So I I think uh that's their perspective, along with having the governor telling them they better get something done.

So my direction would be if we could have them uh eye to eye visit with our with our representatives, otherwise, I don't I don't I'm not excited about it.

Mayor Tim.

Um I I want to agree with the mayor in terms of the arguments that we're making on some of these, you know, showing that we're already doing it.

If I'm one of these representatives and I want to show I'm doing something about taxes, because I know I know they're hearing that, right?

We're all we're all feeling that to some degree.

Um, and so to for them to show that they're being responsive, right?

So this is why they're doing it.

So if they hear from a city, oh, we're already doing that, they might be like, okay, well, great, so this won't hurt you, right?

So you know that would be my concern about using that argument why that one might not be as effective.

Um, I do agree with uh council member McGee and Councilmember Holland that face to face, I would expect is the most effective.

Um however, I also take council member Dester's suggestion that whatever you know you might assess is the most effective, I'd be on board with my personal experiences face to face, but if you think there's something more effective, um I can totally get on board with that.

Um I I think for the arguments of some of the oh, and I do also back up um Councilmember McGee's argument that getting ahead of these things can be more effective.

I I know if somebody comes to me too late, even on our council items.

I don't have as much time to really process it, so getting ahead of it can be really helpful.

Um in terms of arguments, I I think demonstrating how it would hurt our local residents, some of these, um, in terms of our ability to maintain existing infrastructure, maintain existing services that are critical to running the city.

You know, what would that look like if we lost that for for existing things?

Because I believe most of our budget, you know, a huge chunk of it's dead, and most of that is replacing existing infrastructure, and then a huge chunk of our city budget is things like personnel and those things are critical to keeping the city running.

So I think if we can get concrete examples of how some of these would impact our ability to continue to provide good infrastructure and services, I think that might be more effective than we're already doing it, you know, or we're already working on leaving it limit.

And I totally agree, we should be using the spending funds as effectively as possible and be as cost-effective as possible, and that should always be a goal uh for us as a city.

Um I absolutely am on board with that as well.

Okay, anything else?

All right, thank you very much.

We sure appreciate you.

Yeah, and see if uh so food is here, so we'll take a I know that let's take a 10-minute break to graph that'll put us at let's say roundup in 1155.

We're back in seats, and we'll take on uh this dynamic uh discussion regarding code of ordinances, chapter two, article nine.

No, eleven.

We're all excited.

I can't wait.

Back at 1155.

Um the ethics ordinance includes three mandates and nine prohibition that cover different actions or behaviors that city officials may take.

Beginning with the mandates, the city ethics ordinance requires that city officials disclose certain business relationships if they are relevant to a pending matter.

Specifically, if a business entity with a pending matter is owned by a city official's partner, the city official must disclose this relationship to the city secretary and the city auditor at least one business day before the meeting where the pending matter will be deliberated.

All disclosures will be provided to the relevant body before the deliberations occur.

And this just disclosure requirement is a yellow light in the ethics code, as even though city officials are allowed to deliberate on these matters.

In addition, it requires that the city officials comply with any financial disclosures required by Texas state law and that city officials report any person that they know has violated the city's ethics ordinance.

These mandates are red lights and are and not reporting a known violation is itself considered to be a violation of the ordinance.

So any questions on the mandates before you move on to the I know this one is kind of confusing.

But I tried to illustrate it with my pickball.

True.

Any questions?

Okay.

Alright, so for the prohibitions beginning with conflicts of interest.

Just to start off this conversation, it's important to note that conflicts of interest are a natural part of being a member of a community.

The ethics ordinance does not prohibit a certain city official from having conflicts of interest, but instead requires that city officials be transparent when a conflict of interest arises and take steps to ensure that your conflict of interest does not inappropriately influence the business of the city.

City's ethics ordinance was recently amended to define a conflict of interest as a situation in which personal and/or financial considerations actually have influenced or compromised or are reasonably certain to influence or compromise the judgment or actions of a city official when acting in their official capacity.

Conflicts of interest arise when city officials in their official capacity act or fail to act in ways that they know or should know are likely to impact the personal or financial interests of the following in a way that is not shared from the financial segment on the city's plan.

So there are three kind of key pieces to this prohibition.

The first is when a conflict of interest arises, second is who creates a conflict of interest, and the third is what creates a conflict of interest.

So I'm gonna walk through each of those.

So first, the ethics ordinance outlines that a conflict of interest arises when a city official is acting in their official capacity.

It defines this kind of as when you are deliberating, which has a specific definition of the ordinance.

Two, voting as a member of the board or commission that you're on, three, presentations as a member of the audience before any city border commission.

Or four, conversing or corresponding with other city officials or staff.

City officials exist to deliberate, so this is a green light, right?

You're just deliberating, that's what you exist to do.

However, you should always be aware that deliberations are when conflict of interest arise.

So if you're taking one of these actions, you should determine if who and what elements of a conflict of interests are if they're met before you proceed.

So second, the ethics ordinance outlines that a conflict of interest arises when a city official deliberates, an action or inaction that impacts certain organizations, people, or property.

Specifically, conflict of interest may arise if the action of inaction that you can involve a business entity that you own, at least 5% voting shares or stocking, or at least $600 at the fair market value of, or that you receive at least $600 in income from, or that you serve as a director, officer, or other policymaker for, unless you're appointed by the city council.

Or that you solicited, received, or accepted an offer of employment or business opportunity from the past 12 months.

So business entity that you are involved with in some capacity, there's several different options.

Or it could be a person that you have solicited, received, or accepted an offer of employment or business opportunity from in the past 12 months.

It could also involve real property that you own at least $600 of the fair market value of, or a non-profit corporation or unincorporated association that you serve on a border commission for, unless you are appointed by the city council.

Further, if your relative has one of these interests, you are also considered to have this interest.

And that extends to the third degree of consanguinity or affinity.

I'm not going to go over that, but it's outlined in the code.

And ask me if you have questions.

So if you know that you'll be deliberating an action or inaction that impacts one of these interests, this is a yellow light.

And I would recommend that you request an advisory opinion from the Board of Ethics before proceeding on that issue with deliberating that issue.

Third, uh the ethics ordinance states that a conflict of interest only arises if you are deliberating an action or inaction that you know or should know will affect one of the interests we just discussed in a way that is not sharing a substantial segment of the city's population.

This is by far the broadest definition of each of these three pieces.

Um I'll try to provide kind of each of the spectrum, things of the spectrum on this example.

So on one end, there is clearly a conflict of interest.

A city official votes to approve a contract between the city and their employer.

Um so in this example, there is a conflict of interest because the city official is deliberating by voting, uh, the action of approving the contract and the action of approving the contract will significantly impact the financial interest of the city's employer in a way that's not shared with the substantial segment of the population.

On the other hand, where there's not a conflict of interest, a city official votes, unless the board of ethics says I am wrong about this, but a city official votes to approve an increase to the city's property tax rate.

So while the city is deliberating by voting, right, in this example, uh, and and it is likely to impact the financial extras even of the city official themselves, right?

The property tax rate applies to all properties in the city, so the impact is shared with the substantial segment of the city's population.

So I know that was a lot of information.

This is the newest section.

Any questions on this conflicts of interest piece?

Trying to make it as clear as possible.

Any questions?

Just a procedural question.

So let's say we have our big consent agenda and somebody has a conflict with just one of the items, would the process be that that one would be separated out?

That person could vote on consent and then I guess leave for a second for the vote for the one item.

Correct.

Okay.

Okay, cool.

Uh also on this slide, um, it's also a violation of the ordinance for a city current city official to represent a person, group, or entity before a city board or commission for compensation.

Um, so this prohibition also applies to former city officials for one year after termination of their official duties.

Um similarly, formal former city officials are prohibited from performing compensated work on a city contract or arrangement that they substantially participated in, the negotiation award or administration of the contract, unless that was just deliberated, just limited to deliver.

Uh okay, next uh we're talking about gifts.

So the ethics ordinance prohibits a city official or their relative from accepting any gift that might reasonably influence a city official in discharging their official duties.

This is a general prohibition that acts as a yellow light for city officials.

Also includes gift-related red lights.

Specifically, a city official cannot accept a single gift valued more than $50 or multiple gifts with a total value of more than $200.

In general, gift is considered to be anything of monetary value, such as cash, property, services, meals, entertainment, or travel-related expenses.

If a gift is accepted, the city official may remedy that violation by promptly donating it or reimbursing the gift giver, the actual or fair market value of the gift.

And if you do accept a gift, you should disclose the acceptance and the remedy by filing the disclosure with me, the city auditor.

The ordinance does allow certain exceptions to the gift prohibition, meaning these are considered green lights, and they're actually not considered gifts at all at that point, which means you don't have to disclose them.

And these include lawful campaign contributions, expenses related to city, a city official's travel to a conference or other training event that is connected to the city, expenses related to appearances at nonprofit or community events related to city business, complimentary attendance at fundraising events or hospitality functions, complimentary or promotional copies of trade publications or clothing items, or gifts that are given to a personal, familial, or professional relationship, regardless of the city officials' city-related duties.

And so any questions about gifts?

From district six.

Do we don't believe so because it would not meet the definition of the sense?

Yeah.

Make sure I understand.

Thank you.

Mayor.

Question about travel.

Okay.

For example, if if somebody said we'd like to, we'd like to put a uh a monument to toilets in in them.

And they have one of these in Omaha, Nebraska.

We'd like you to go at our the toilet factory.

And go to Omaha Nebraska.

That's a good thing.

Where are we going with this?

We'll apply you to Omaha, Nebraska to look at this monument, the toilets, and you can come back and now you'll know what we're talking about.

Would that be a problem?

Okay, I don't believe so because it would be an expense related to city business.

But it wouldn't be funded by the city.

That's true.

Um I think it's really hard to answer a hypothetical without more clear facts, but I don't believe so because it would be an expense related to city business.

But if that happens, you don't pardon me.

You don't think there'd be a conflict?

I don't think that would be against the prohibition of the ordinance.

Uh-huh.

Um not speaking about the complex metro section.

That's why some of this is complicated.

So I would recommend in that situation you ask the board buttons.

Okay.

But I don't think it would be.

There's a state law that addresses that as well.

Oh, yeah.

And I don't, I don't, I'm not an expert on that either.

I'm just here to key to the travel, because it's a big exception to a loophole.

The person has to actually be hosting you.

You can't just give you tickets to a game or whatever it is.

They have to be hosting you and be there in order for it to be an acceptable gift for travel or expenses associated with that.

So in your situation, it would matter whether they're sending you on a trip somewhere to go check something out versus are they there, are they hosting you, are they gonna be there and be there with you at that time?

Those are kind of key distinctions in the law as far as whether that's legal or not under state law.

Now we may have a higher standard under ours, the advisory opinion from our board would give you the insight on that, but just let you know that they can't just send you on travel wherever they want to send you and say that's city business.

They would have to actually be there hosting you.

Okay.

And so if I took it to the board of ethics, how long would it be, how long would the turnaround be to get an answer?

Um usually we need at least, I would say probably 15 days, 15 to 20 days.

Okay.

Okay, thank you.

I'm interested though, if you do have a toilet, if you're born for a public toilet oh, that oh that would be a toilet bowl.

See, I didn't even say that.

Okay.

The $50 makes sense to me.

The $200 I have questions about, so in the cookie example that Council Member Jester gave, um, you know, is this $200 all time, $200 per year?

Does it matter how many people are involved?

So if this person gives you cookies and this gives you cookies and it eventually adds up to $200 over time, like no, how does that $200 work?

I believe I believe it's annual.

I'd have to double check the ordinance to see if it's clear about that.

Um I think like if if somebody gave you $100 of cookies and your spouse $100 of cookies, that aggregates.

Sure.

Um, so that would hit the $200 cap.

Uh because that answer your question.

Somewhat.

Multiple people giving you cookies and it adds up to $200 by the end of the year.

If they're not the same entity, then it hasn't added, I believe.

So the spirit of it is the $200 is sort of.

That's like the if it's over this, it's implied that it's impacting your judgment, even if it's cookies.

Does that make sense?

Yes, yes, absolutely.

Okay.

Any other questions?

Okay.

Are we getting cookies?

Is that where we can do that?

All right.

Uh next, it is a violation of the ordinance for a city official to misuse the influence or information gained uh due to their official city position.

Specifically, a city official may not use their influence to secure special privileges or treatment for a person, group, or business organization beyond what is normally available or to imply that they can do such things.

So while this is a specific prohibition, it's a it's a yellow light, as it's not meant to prohibit a city official from providing individuals, groups, or businesses with information on how city processes work so that they can more easily access normally available resources.

So for instance, or for that reason, city officials should uh proceed cautiously and thoughtfully when they try to help the public with specific concerns.

Um specifically, city officials should be cautious when stating that they what they can do to ensure a concern is addressed.

Further, a city official may not state or imply that they are acting as a representative of the city unless they have been authorized to do so by the city council.

And it's a violation of the ordinance for a city official, either current or former, to use confidential information gained through their official capacity to advance personal or private financial interests of themselves or anyone else.

So these are red lights.

There's no instances where misrepresenting yourself as an authorized city representative or using confidential information for personal or private interests would be ethical under the city's ethics forten.

Any questions on that, please?

Any questions?

Thank you.

Last prohibition, it is a violation of the ordinance for a city official to abuse the city's resources or the power or privileges granted by their official physician.

Specifically, a city official should not use request or allow the use of city resources such as facilities, personnel, equipment, software, or staff time for private purposes, including political, except to the extent that those are available to other residents.

Well, this is a specific prohibition, it's also a yellow light as it does not have clearly defined threshold in instances where a city official can ethically use city resources, like renting a city facility at the public publicly available price.

On the other hand, it is a violation of the ordinance for a city official to harass or discriminate against a person based on their ethnicity, race, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, marital or parental status, or religion.

It's also a violation to interfere with any city-related criminal or administrative investigation, including persuading or coercing someone else to withhold their cooperation.

These are red lights as there is no instance where harassment, discrimination, or interfering with an investigation would be considered ethical behavior under the ethics ordinance.

This is the last prohibition slide.

I have a couple more kind of procedural things, but any questions on it.

Ooh.

I'll get it across the room.

It's a class and a class distribution.

Can I just pass this back to it back to that thing?

Oh, yes.

And that's all of the run brief.

Yes.

This is everyone's most favorite item of the year.

Yeah.

Any questions about this?

Last uh couple more slides.

Yeah, no worries.

Okay.

All right.

So now that you have an understanding of the expectations, mandates, and prohibitions outlined in the ordinance, do you ever come upon a situation where you need additional guidance?

You have a couple of options.

First, if you need direction helping to find a section of the ordinance related to a particular situation or an answer about how to submit disclosures or complaints, you can reach out to me.

I have all the administrative knowledge.

Second, if you have an attorney, they may be able to help provide you with an interpretation of the ethics ordinance to decide whether to recuse yourself or not in a given situation.

And finally, you can also request that the Board of Ethics issue an advisory opinion, which is intended to answer a question about compliance with ethics ordinance in a particular situation.

The biggest advantage to an advisory opinion is that a city official may use it as an affirmative defense to a submitted ethics complaint if they relied upon it in good faith, if the opinion was that the action in that situation would not be again a violation.

That makes sense.

So to receive an advisory opinion, a city official must submit the request in writing to the city auditor, including relevant details of the situation in question.

I will then communicate the request to the Board of Ethics Chair who assigns it to a panel of three Board of Ethics members for review.

The panel has technically has 30 days to issue the advisory opinion once the request is received, but we usually turn it around in a quicker time.

So any questions about the advisory opinion process?

Any questions?

Obviously, for me, my only question is it your understanding that it does it matters who asked the question?

It's not my understanding that it matters who asked the question per the ethics ordinance.

Right.

So you just is there any guidance on who can ask for an advisory opinion?

City officials.

City officials for what purpose?

To get to uh get an answer about how the ethics ordinance would apply to a particular situation.

To only themselves or a situation.

My understanding is a particular situation.

Okay.

Any other questions?

Mayor Point.

How is the three panel?

I assume these are ethics, people they're already on the ethics board.

Um how are the three people?

Because it's a bigger than a three-person committee.

How are the three people identified?

The ethics board chair assigns them.

What usually happens administratively is I send her a list, uh, currently the chair of the Matt Aramsey.

I sent her a list of here's all the members and the number of panels they've served on previously, so that we try to get them rotated through, basically, so they all are sort of serving the same amount, uh, if that makes sense.

Thank you.

Any other questions?

All right.

All right.

Uh finally, the Board of Ethics' primary function is to process ethics complaints.

There are four phases of the ethics complaint process that I'll briefly run through.

Um additional information of the process is available on the uh city's board of ethics webpage, or you can just talk to me about it.

Uh first, initiation.

During this period, an individual submits an ethics complaint using the prescribed form to the city auditor.

The complaint form should be accompanied by any evidence such as images, videos, or documentation that the complainant has uh to support their allegations and must be sworn in front of a notary.

The city auditor then determines if the ethics complaint is administratively complete but does not make any judgment on the complaint's merits.

If a complaint is accepted, a copy is forwarded to the complainant, the respondent, the board of ethics chair, and the board of ethics chair who's assigns it to a preliminary assessment panel.

And I believe uh the city attorney is also required to receive a copy.

During the preliminary assessment phase, a panel of three Board of Ethics members reviews the submitted ethics complaint and determines if it is actionable or baseless.

A complaint is actionable if it's if on its face the behaviors alleged in the complaint would constitute a violation of the ordinance.

The panel may also recommend that a hearing be held to determine if a complaint is frivolous instead of determining if it is actionable or baseless.

The outcome of the preliminary assessment is communicated to the complainant and the respondent by the city auditor.

If the complaint is determined to be baseless, the process stops there, though the complaint may submit a written appeal within 10 business days, which will initiate the hearing phase.

So during the hearing phase, the Board of Ethics schedules an evidentiary hearing and may request additional documentation, documentary evidence or issue subpoenas to require individuals to testify.

The complainant must attend and testify at this hearing and may also present any additional evidence that they have gathered.

In addition, the respondent may provide testimony and evidence for the board's consideration.

Both the complainant and a respondent uh have a right to be represented by legal counsel at the evidentiary hearing.

And based on the evidentiary hearing, the board will determine if a violation of the ordinance has occurred, and if they determine that a violation was occurred, they may issue a sanction.

Umce the board has decided on the ethics complaint, the complainant and respondent both have five business days to submit any new evidence and request a reconsideration in writing with the city auditor.

The board of ethics chair will review the reconsideration request and will unilaterally determine if a new hearing is warranted based on what was submitted.

If during the evidentiary hearing, the board of ethics finds that a violation of the ethics ordinance occurred, they may issue one of four sanctions based on the city officials' perceived intent and the seriousness of the violation.

Uh this decision process is generally illustrated in the decision matrix on the slide.

Um but I'm not going to walk through each one.

If the board decides to impose a sanction, the city official will be notified within 10 business days by the city auditors.

Any questions about ethics complaint process?

I know it was a really brief quick run through, but any questions?

It says it says legal counsel.

Is that defined, or is it just you can be represented by anybody you pick basically?

It's not defined.

Um it's not defined in like the definitions section.

I believe that the intent of counsel is specifically like an attorney.

Um because I know we did in the last ordinance, we kind of clarified that it was intended to be legal counsel.

But I don't know, like I don't, it's not defined is your is the answer.

Right.

Um, who else besides city council members uh is this designed to address complaints?

Uh it includes the city council appointees, so me, Sarah Mack, and the judge.

Okay.

Um also includes uh the Board of Ethics themselves, uh the planning and zoning committee or commission, uh the Board of Adjustments, um, historic landmark commission, the public utilities, and the public utilities board.

So a couple of the bodies, but not all bodies.

So the Board of Ethics would review their own if it was submitted against one of their members, yes.

Thank you.

Any other questions?

And that's happened to them before a long time ago, but then uh you you touched on it on the other slide, but if there's if an application is complete but violates the quote unquote rules or statute, that's not evaluated until the hearing process.

Uh so for example, if it's if it says you shouldn't, whatever, you shouldn't impugn someone's integrity, and someone writes something about someone's integrity uh and the in the in their response, there's not a avenue to say, hey, this goes outside of what you're allowed to do.

You just have to make that point in the hearing.

Uh so in the initiation phase, I determine if it's possibly, and if that would you said yes, that's true in your hypothetical.

Yes.

Then there's a preliminary assessment, which is when they determine is that actually like I think this is where it would hit for what your hypothetical is um is it even a violation of the ordinance, what's alleged, right?

Like, so it's not a violation of the ordinance to impune somebody's um so if that was the entirety of the complaint on its face, they the Board of Ethics preliminary assessment panel should at that point say this is a baseless complaint because there's nothing in the ethics ordinance that makes that a violation.

Does that make sense?

It does, but if that what and and and what I'm envisioning is if that um if you have both of those elements, you have a priable question, yeah, and you have supplementing information that is not allowed.

I don't I don't understand it at that, I my understanding is that that phase it it's not evaluated, say only this thing goes forward because it's viable, these other things don't go forward because they're not uh they don't meet the elements.

Like if there were two different types of complaints, no one complaint that has both elements in it.

So there's some personal conjection conjecture, just personal comments and a substantive question that does need to go before the board.

I would think if that was the situation, that's what they should basically do, right?

They should say this part isn't part of the ordinance, but the complaint itself, because some of it is a violate would be a violation of the ordinance if there was evidence to support it, um is actionable, right?

So they should basically forward that part to the hearing.

Is that it does?

Thank you.

Yes.

Congratulations.

Oh, we're all outside you the sign this.

You're on the if you're on the piece of paper.

Some of y'all aren't required to ethical violation to sign it.

Yeah.

I think I don't think it's a violation of the ordinance, not if you're training, but I'd appreciate it if you signed it.

But we'll have Christian McVeigh college.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Oh, yeah.

So while we're circle with circulating that, I think that's everything city manager have anything to conclude with.

No, uh spare way from the downtown area right now.

We've got a shooting at LSA bar.

Oh no, CPR is in progress.

Um the person who should did the shooting is uh is with police and self-defense, so we don't know anything else, but um I would not go downtown right now.

We've got our discovered dental lockdown.

Um, yeah, thank you for that update, and uh thank you.

And and so great day, very productive, thank you for organizing staff or pulling it together.

Um and uh great information.

We'll circle back and then uh you'll you'll disseminate that.

Well with that information, I guess will you will that be a Friday report thing or before then?

We'll do it a Friday report and then we can touch on it during the next session.

Okay on the 90th.

Got it, okay.

Mr.

Mayor, which information?

The the answers to questions, okay.

Good, good then.

Okay.

Okay.

Well, very good then at uh twelve twenty-eight, look at that.

We'll we'll uh conclude today's meeting.

Thank you.

Well, make sure you sign it less than things.