Good afternoon and welcome to this meeting in Denton City Council.

Today it's Tuesday, December 2nd 2025.

It is 2 p.m.

We have a quorum, so I'll call the meeting to order.

First thing on the agenda is uh any speakers.

Seeing none.

That takes us to our second point is request for clarification on agenda items listed on the agenda for public hearing and individual consideration questions on individual consideration items or public hearing.

Any questions?

Seeing none, I and then I will give everyone a heads up.

We are on a uh tight schedule uh today, obviously action-packed agenda agenda.

So please uh keep it as much as question and answer uh format as possible.

Lots and not gonna ignore the elephant in the room, lots of opinions, lots of thoughts.

Let's not lecture each other.

Let's ask questions, gather information, and then we're gonna vote.

So uh I will just give you a heads up, I'll remind you out there uh that we're not gonna lecture each other.

Hopefully, questions for staff, get answers, get information you need, move forward uh to a vote.

And so um if that gets out of whack and there's five ten minutes of of uh kind of opining, then I'm going to start as chair.

I have the right to start reeling that in and limiting that time.

So I am hoping to avoid that.

We can self-regulate.

So uh I'll remind you out there again, just uh just to make sure we're all on the same page.

That takes us to our first work session 3A ID 251543, receive report, hold discussion, give staff direction regarding the airport master plan.

Mayor, members of the council, Ryan Adams Enterprise Airport.

Uh, before we have our consultants, Kaufman Associates step up to deliver the presentation.

I just want to give a few comments.

This uh presentation, this plan is the culmination of about 18 months of work.

Uh we last met with the council December of 2024 to give a preliminary update uh once the data had been collected.

Uh this plan is a facilities plan, it's not a strategic plan.

So this is planning for how we as the airport construct the public facilities that can serve the aviation demand over the next 20 years.

It follows a very prescribed process from the FAA, so they very much tell us how to run this planning process.

And I would be remiss if I didn't give you a heads up.

On the last slide, you are gonna see a very extensive list of projects with an even more extensive uh price uh per project.

Uh what I want to share with you is that this is not everything that the city has to do over the next 20 years.

It is very much a menu of potential projects.

We include them in the plan because when projects are in the plan, they are eligible for FAA funding, and that funding is at 90 percent.

So we want to make sure we have options going forward so that as the market shifts, we can pivot to other projects that we need more at that time.

So uh without further uh delay, I will hand it over to Eric Pfeiffer with Kaufman Associates.

All right, good afternoon, Mayor City Council members.

Really appreciate you uh giving us the time to talk.

Um let's see, I want to make sure, just use the keyboard to click through.

All right, perfect.

Uh, so I'm gonna run through uh kind of what we've done over the last year.

You know, we spoke to you last December.

Um, so I'm gonna give you a high-level overview of the recommendations that have come out of this.

Um I went through the process last time we were here.

We've broken out into three different phases.

We look at a lot of different things over the course of the last year.

We are at the draft final stage, um, and basically what we're gonna be showing you is our overall recommendations on how to develop the airport over the next 20 years.

Um, and then we will take this plan uh and the documents that are associated with that and submit that to TechSot and to the FAA after this process and get them to start their review and approval of uh of our plan.

We had established at the onset a planning advisory committee consisting of uh uh a little over 20 individuals uh from various stakeholder groups, uh tenants on the airport, uh city staff, um, and different stakeholders throughout the community to offer us feedback and input throughout the master plan process.

And that is really a key, important part of this, so that we get a really robust uh uh feedback on what we're trying to accomplish at the airport.

And this group did a fantastic job of giving us that feedback and kind of guiding us throughout the master plan.

We also set up a study website where we distributed all the draft materials and made that available to the public so that they could review everything and submit comments and feedback over the course of the study, and that's always been a very successful process for us.

So, in terms of how we're planning the airport facilities and the kinds of aircraft that we're trying to accommodate as a general aviation airport, which is intended to serve all manner of aircraft operations, civilian aircraft operations, excluding uh scheduled commercial service types of activities.

This airport needs to be able to accommodate a variety of small aircraft on up to the largest business jets operating in the national fleet.

As you what you see here, the Challenger 600 and the Gulf Stream G650, these represent your existing and future critical aircraft.

Um, and so we want this airport to be able to accommodate the largest business jets that operate.

And some of these aircraft, you know, the G650 can certainly operate at the airport now, but there are a few minor enhancements that we have planned to help better accommodate them.

And certainly when we're talking about land side facilities, apron spaces, hangars, and things like that, we want to start thinking more about developing those types of facilities to accommodate these types of critical aircraft.

Another big component of what we looked at was evaluating the airport in terms of its capability or potential capability for commercial operations, both uh passenger service as well as air cargo.

Um, and really largely what's happened over the last year is McKinney has made great strides in terms of uh taking those steps to bring commercial service to their airport.

They broke ground on an over 70 million dollar terminal facility over the course of uh over uh this summer.

Um, and and so basically the the study is concluding that they are much further ahead in terms of getting this activity at their airport.

Uh the metropolitan area, while it certainly needs a third commercial service airport, uh, would not support a fourth commercial service airport, and especially a second one in kind of the northern suburban areas of the metro.

So we are uh concluding that that is not a viable option to pursue for Denton is going after that commercial passenger service activity.

In terms of air cargo, you do have some charter air cargo operations that happen at the airport currently, um, and that will certainly continue.

Um, however, you know, prevailing conditions and and uh trends among the larger mainline air cargo operators, FedEx, UPS, Amazon Air, those kinds of services are very much accommodated with your competition in the regional area, DFW, Love, and Fort Worth Alliance.

And because of that competition and their capabilities being able to serve that market, we don't anticipate uh large-scale commercial uh air cargo activity at Denton, but we do anticipate uh continued uh charters and some possibly some growth in that uh realm.

And so, as part of that, we do include in the plan uh some dedicated air cargo handling facilities as more or less a placeholder in case that activity does grow over time.

In terms of the recommended development concept, and so this is showing you and focused largely on the airfield systems, the runways, taxiways, and things, uh, navigational aids.

There's a lot going on here, but I'll summarize it to say uh your primary runway right now just over 7,000 feet.

We do not plan for any enhancements to the dimensions of the runway.

Uh, length, width, uh, is all adequate for the types of business jets and aircraft in general that we're talking about accommodating here over the next 20 years.

We do have uh some uh somewhat minor uh safety enhancements that we've worked in, as well as some new taxiway exits to increase capacity and and kind of enhance the circulation for the primary runway.

Uh your secondary runway, 18 right 36 left, uh, that was constructed back in 2019.

We do show 1,000 foot extension to that runway, and that really is to better serve some uh increased usage of that runway, particularly when new development occurs on that west side, which there's nothing over there at the at the present, but we do anticipate that area being developed at some point in the future and wanting to beef up that runway and the taxiways associated with that to serve those users.

On the land side areas, so talking about aprons and and hangars and things like that.

This is showing the east side concept.

And what we have planned for this side is some enhancements and expansions of the apron areas, which is going to allow for better capacity for aircraft parking and circulation, as well as some redevelopment of some of the hangar areas, like I mentioned, with larger uh conventional style hangars that are going to better serve the bigger uh business jets that that are more frequently using the airport.

On the west side, uh, as I mentioned, we do plan for this uh area to be developed, particularly uh once that proposed loop 288 uh is constructed over in that area to provide better access to the airport's west side.

Um we do plan for some smaller types of hangars for some of the smaller aircraft users of the airport, uh, as well as new access points and apron areas uh uh if if it's determined that a new general aviation terminal facility should be decided to be constructed over in this area to serve that side of the airport.

Um you'll see uh a large area of yellow shading, uh which is reserved for non-aeronautical uses, and the purpose behind that is to take advantage of those uh frontage roads and the frontage to the loop 288 so that the airport can expand some revenue streams uh and enhance uh the the cash flow into the airport from some non-aeronautical uses, which are are generally considered a more steady stream of uh cash flow for an airport.

Uh you'll also notice in this pink shaded area uh at the bottom of the page a planned uh designation area for a vertiport.

Uh so that is in line with the advanced air mobility uh uh emerging technology coming out in aviation.

This is the electric vertical takeoff and landing type of aircraft looking to conduct uh small scale charter operations in and around large metropolitan areas.

Uh we wanted to reserve that possibility.

It's still, like I said, it's an emerging technology.

Uh there are not proven models of this as of yet, uh, but it is coming, and there's lots of planning in place for this, so we wanted to follow that and make sure it's it's in this plan at a separation from your runway so that we're not interacting those two different user bases uh and disrupting uh the fixed wing operations on the airport.

We want to make sure those were separate as much as we possibly could.

In terms of uh development staging for this, we broke our projects out into a uh short intermediate and long term periods.

So that's gonna coincide with a five, ten, and twenty year.

Um but again, this is uh meant to be adjusted annually over time as demand materializes.

This is uh a demand-based plan or structured to be in demand-based plan.

Uh but in that first five-year period, things in green largely is associated with some airfield pavement maintenance projects that are have already been planned by the city, uh, as well as some acquisition of some new fleet vehicles and a few things like that.

Uh getting into that intermediate term, the blue-shaded projects, uh, this is where we're looking at doing a lot of the uh uh uh reinvestment and uh adjustments and and some improvements on the existing landside area on the east side, um, and then also setting up the stage for the west side development with a new parallel taxiway over on that west side.

And then the long term are the project projects in red.

Uh that is where we get into a lot of the developments that we anticipate over there on that west side.

So we develop a project cost estimates for each individual project, and this is a summary of each of those periods.

Uh so we don't have individual projects listed out here.

And as you can see, the total program cost of 421 million, very large number.

Um, and as Ryan mentioned, this is simply a menu of options for the airport to pursue if that demand materializes.

Uh, we want to be forward thinking here, and uh and make sure we give the the community uh and this airport uh all the every opportunity to utilize uh federal grant funding.

Um in doing so, we need to include these projects in this plan.

You are not going to do every single one of these projects.

Some of these projects will fall out, demand will never materialize for them, uh, or things will get adjusted over time.

There are 61 total projects, um, and again, this plan does not guarantee the city or the FA or Text DOT will fund any of these projects.

It's simply laying out what projects are and what the eligibility for uh funding might be.

Um, and again, this will change over time and fluctuate based upon those demands.

And so that's uh kind of covers my high-level overview here.

I'm sure you guys have some questions.

Uh, this is a very robust, thick document.

There's a lot of information in here, including a uh uh full detail on the air cargo analysis that was conducted is included as an appendix to the report.

Um, but uh but yeah, I'll kind of finish up and if you have any questions, I would love to answer those.

Thank you very much.

Questions for staff.

Mayor Protum.

Thank you for so much for this report.

Um, thank you for also not giving us the entire booklet that you just held up.

Or maybe maybe I actually would have read it.

I don't know.

Um can you provide um sort of an overview of the biggest challenges or constraints that the airport faces right now, something that's sort of holding it back a little bit?

Yeah, I wouldn't say there's anything holding it back.

I would uh counter that, you know.

This is an airport with a lot of opportunity.

Um a lot of airports, you know, in the metro area and and beyond are very much land constrained, uh, don't have the opportunity to for new development or growth.

You have that here.

Um you guys and staff, Ryan has done a fantastic job running uh running this airport and taking advantage of the opportunities that have come along.

Um there's gonna be others.

Uh I I know he gets inquiries uh frequently for developing uh for developments at the airport, and you guys have the cap uh capacity to take some of that on.

Uh the biggest challenge is is going to be uh getting that big starting development on the west side.

That's always the trickiest part is getting the first development uh in a new green field part of your airport.

Uh the loop will certainly help with that, um, but it it's certainly not thought of as uh you know a prerequisite to development on the west side.

You you have access points over there.

Um so that'll be probably the biggest challenge is beginning that development on the west side.

Because the east side is really reaching a uh a built-out condition, um, and that is why we do include some redevelopment of certain areas where we think it it might make sense.

Um but that would probably be the biggest challenge.

And and you know, this is a growing airport.

The the amount of activity going on there has been uh uh increasing substantially.

Um but there's yeah, there's great opportunity, and and I think that's something the city should be very excited about and proud of.

So it sounds like this is almost entirely about um going after opportunities and less about or there's very little, if any, really, that's addressing any issues except maybe some small like upgrades or you know, a big part of what we do in this is make sure that the airport is meeting FAA design standards for airports, and and that is a big component of this, and and like I said, we do have some recommendations included in the plan to address that, but we don't identify any you know major safety issues uh, for example.

Um the airport's in in really good condition, been kept in good condition, and um and and this is simply some enhancements to that that um will help certain things over time.

Sure.

I appreciate all the thought and time and planning that's gone into this.

You know, if the demand materializes, we have a plan, we're ready to go if if the need presents itself.

Um I really only had one question.

So we have two runways right now.

Um it's my understanding, and correct me if this is wrong.

One can handle heavier aircraft than the other.

That's correct.

Was there any thought or discussion about making them both where they can both handle the heavier type?

No, that's a great question.

Um, and we certainly think about things like that.

Uh as a pro parallel runway at a general aviation airport.

Uh we we have to apply different design standards to both runways based upon how they're used.

And basically how that runway is used today, it's used primarily by some smaller general aviation aircraft.

And the FAA will typically only fund maintaining a runway up to a certain uh design standard.

Uh so your primary runway is going to meet the highest needs of the of the biggest and heaviest users of the airport.

Your parallel secondary runway, that's meant to be used by some of the smaller GA airport uh aircraft, and that's how we plan for that.

Um I I talked about extending the runway so that it can be used by some uh uh you know more frequently by some small mid-sized business jets.

Um, but we but we cannot plan for that, or we don't have the justification to plan that parallel runway to meet the same exact design standards as your primary runway.

It will continue uh in the foreseeable future to be used primarily by smaller GA aircraft, and that's that's what we've planned for.

Okay, so it's mostly a based on the external funding, we would be able to get it kind of is the primary behind that.

Yeah, you could fund it yourself to improve that if you wanted.

Um but isn't in terms of how we can justify and get uh federal support, yeah.

We we have to keep that uh in mind, and and the FA would only support funding one runway at this airport to that higher design standard.

Okay, and this is my last question associated with the the last question.

What do we do when we're um re renovating or repaving or otherwise repairing the main runway?

Did the aircraft go somewhere else?

What how does that work?

Ideally, not no.

Ideally, you would uh, you know, it depends on on what kind of reconstruction or rehab work you're talking about.

A lot of the times that work can be phased so that a portion of the runway might be able to remain open so that we're not displacing activity, or uh, you know, you push some of that traffic to your parallel runway temporarily.

Um that certainly can be accomplished as well.

Um, you know, we're we've worked at airports where they're doing full depth reconstructs on on a main runway and and having very uh significant concerns about losing traffic, and that can be very challenging.

But you you know, you have a parallel runway that can accommodate a lot of that traffic.

So any disruption to operations would hopefully be pretty minimal in that scenario.

So we're not getting those big aircraft quite as much.

Uh you're uh well, you are, and and on a temporary basis, they could they could some of them could operate on your parallel runway.

You might get a few that would go elsewhere uh temporarily, but um, but I think most of those aircraft could use the parallel runway on occasion too.

Oh, yeah.

I'll be brief.

We actually did this two summers ago.

We had a full depth reconstruction of our main runway, and we were fortunate that we were able to communicate it early enough that aircraft that just could not function on the parallel runway.

They made other plans during that 40-day period where we were shut down.

But most of our aircraft, I would say probably 90 to 95 percent could function for that short time on our parallel runway, going back to what Eric said about us having lots of opportunities.

Not all airports have a second runway, we're very fortunate to have one.

That's all my questions, thank you, Mayor.

Yeah.

Okay.

Um other questions?

Representative from one and then six.

I see that you have uh the green as your short-term projects.

Correct.

And it looks like it's just uh uh what what is that?

I know that's not a runway.

Is that a sidewalk?

Is that a what is that?

That is a very wide sidewalk.

It's it's a parallel taxiway.

Um a parallel taxiway, yeah.

Yeah, that's all that, yeah.

Okay.

It's a rehab project for some taxiway pavement.

Okay, okay.

And so uh when we talk short short term, does what is short term uh the date that short term starts?

So the short-term projects run uh through fiscal year 2030.

Okay.

And then I'm recognizing that um most of the uh intermediate are those hangers what are what are the what is what's that again?

So a lot of the blue uh is taxi lane pavement or apron pavement on that east side to support new hangar development.

Hangers, and that's a great question because hangars uh are not typically eligible for federal funding.

So you can't use federal dollars on uh uh projects that are going to generate revenue for the airport.

Uh but you can use that money to build up the infrastructure to allow for new hangers.

So we do not show hangers as being part of the program.

And those are largely going to be funded by private developers, typically, and that's what we've accounted for.

So most of what you see there are some apron expansions and new taxi lanes to support that infrastructure going in for the uh area over near um 288, the anticipation of 288.

Uh 288 can come in and come through without the support of what's in the red there?

Can the red come in without the support of 288?

Yes.

Uh we would yes, that is our plan is if 288 does not happen.

Um, you still have surface roads in that area that can be at the very least improved uh that would support development on that west side.

You may not, you know, we we show a general aviation terminal facility and some large scale uh you know structures to support some larger aviation related businesses.

Um, some of that may not occur until you get 288, but but certainly some of the smaller hangars, executive hangars, things like that absolutely could happen without 288.

The um all of that that the the long-term projects can those long-term projects become part of an intermediate term project?

Yes, exactly, and that is exactly the point.

Um, and Ryan will work closely with Techstone and the FA on an annual basis uh to um reflect the current conditions and demands of the airport, and so that will absolutely require moving some projects up in the program or moving some projects back in the program.

That is the whole point is to be able to shuffle things around uh as needed uh to to respond to the demands on the airport.

And what's your guess to make uh of how the was that hello hover port?

Is that what we'll do?

Yeah, the vertiport say it again.

Vertiport.

Vertiport.

That's part of the long-term projects.

It is, and that that's yeah, and we put it in the long term, just simply because we're not exactly sure how this market is going to develop.

They're doing kind of a separate economic study on a verte port.

And it we might see that it expands much faster that we anticip than than we anticipate.

And that would be totally fine because you could move that project up in your program and get it done sooner rather than later.

Like I said, that's not a project that we feel is dependent upon 288.

That's going to be strictly based upon the demand of that market.

And we might see it boom much faster than we really think.

But there's other players too looking to do this.

So we just kind of have to wait and see.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Representative from District 6.

Um Thank you very much.

I certainly want to recognize everyone that participated, which there were a lot.

Yes.

And so and my question was answered thanks to Councilperson Bird.

So thank you very much.

Appreciate it.

Thank you.

Okay.

Any other questions, representative from District 5 and 2.

Thank you.

Yeah, so uh at this point it's anticipated to be uh uh vertical takeoff and landing vehicles.

Uh initially it'll be they'll be piloted, um, but eventually, you know, the way we understand it and and the way uh the trend would be to eventually go to pilot lists, uh in which case you could use the term drone for that because they'll be remotely piloted, um, transporting passengers or cargo uh throughout the city.

Um and it I mentioned that this is really uh gonna be started in large metropolitan areas because they're gonna focus on places where they want to try and cut down on uh you know surface roadway congestion and things like that.

I know obviously uh you have some of that here, uh so it might uh be a great opportunity for for Denton to be able to uh uh take advantage of something like that and transport people uh vertically uh throughout the city as opposed to congesting up the the highways and things.

Um but uh that's that's what it'll look like.

And and these would be uh the vertiport would be a place for those vehicles to take off and land and then also park and and recharge uh from electric charging stations.

Um and honestly, the the charging is going to be a pretty significant factor if it does end up being electric, because there's some out there that are gonna try and operate on hydrogen uh fuels.

But um, you know, bringing that charging capability to your airport, uh they're talking about needing upwards of one megawatt per charging station, which is a lot of power uh to be provided.

Um and one of the things we talk about in the report is that west side area, you know, you could look at doing things like solar farms uh and things like you know, something like that to provide some sort of on on-site power generation.

You're not gonna be able to provide all of what you would need, but you'd be able to offset somewhat.

But yeah, that that's kind of what we're talking about when we're talking about vertiports.

I I appreciate you um touching on the infrastructure.

Would those costs also be reimbursed at 90%?

Uh that's what I'm saying.

Charging stations, you know, to tie into our DME system for at this point.

I'm not aware that they would be uh eligible.

Um, but as this market unfolds, the FAA will need to respond and react to that, and it potentially could become eligible.

Um at this point, I'm not aware.

I I don't believe it would be eligible for federal funding.

Fair enough.

I've just got a couple more, and I'll uh I'll be done.

Um if you go to the airport now, there seem to be quite a number of aircraft that are maintained outside.

I know we have increased hangar space coming.

Is that meant to provide space for more aircraft, or would we still or we would be moving aircraft that are currently housed outside indoors?

Um so yeah, the great quote great question.

Some of the new hangar facilities planned, especially over on the east side would East Side, yes.

Yeah, yeah, would be for uh uh accommodating some of the existing based aircraft on the airport, as well as businesses that would be doing you know maintenance work and things like that.

We call those maintenance repair overhaul operators or specialty operators.

Um certainly some of the the planned areas on that east side would accommodate those types of developments and give more capacity for those aircraft that you see to be in a hangar as opposed to being on the apron.

So what we see now is not atypical one, and we should expect to see that going forward.

We'll still see a number of aircraft maintained outside on the aprons.

Uh well, that's I'll I might let Ryan touch on that one.

When you say maintained, do you mean parked on the airports?

Oh, yes, that's very common for airports uh for especially either uh folks with large fleets, like we have a lot of flight schools or uh providers who simply they don't mind their aircraft being parked outside.

That's just it's an option no different than someone parking in their driveway versus parking in a garage.

So and that is very common.

Okay.

And last question, it wasn't necessarily part of this, but I'm not remembering um where it's gonna come.

I know we've discussed it.

Um I know we've discussed that.

I know that obviously it's not going to be eligible for funding, but when is that coming?

Do we know?

So a mosh branch is actually not within the airport footprint, so uh I would not be able to answer that one.

Um, we'll have to get that to you.

Yeah, we'll have to look we'll have to look that up.

Okay, I know we discussed in the path.

I'm just curious if it's if it's part of a future bond or or what how we're gonna do that.

Because at some point I know we're going to need to improve Mosh Mars.

That's all.

Yeah, I'll get I will find out.

Thank you, ma'am.

Thank you, Eric.

Thank you.

Representative from District 2.

Thank you.

Um my colleagues have asked a lot of my questions.

Um, thank you, colleagues.

Um the the one I have sort of just hanging out there that's left is um the in this rollout for these staging, um are there can can you are there path dependent processes where like okay, if we if we go this way, then then this buffet of options are precluded are or are they all mutually compatible?

Um I would say you know, we largely try and build this so it's mutually compatible.

Um, you know, we talked about air cargo and and general aviation and how that all mixed together.

Um in this area, the the air cargo I I failed to mention is located on the west side right in this area.

Um so in terms of the footprint of that kind of activity, it's relatively small.

Um general aviation uh is gonna take up the bulk of the rest of uh the development of developable area uh on the aeronautical area uh sides.

And so, no, that there's really not anything in there that would prevent uh you know this plan from being implemented where you're accommodating all manner of different general aviation operators.

Um we uh like I said, we try and uh accommodate all of those activities as much as we possibly can.

In this particular case, um, you know, we try and segregate the large, more sophisticated users of the airport from the smaller uh you know, piston operators as much as we can just from uh uh operational safety standpoint, it's it's beneficial.

And and so that's why we've tried to kept uh tried to keep most of the development on the east side catered towards those larger users and the west side more towards the smaller uh users.

Um in that regard, you know, as long as you're thinking through you know as development opportunities come up, um, where on the airport it makes the most sense for that development to occur within the framework of this master plan.

Um you should be able to uh move forward and accommodate uh all those users however they come about.

Um there's different things.

It's it's really hard to predict because you could get uh uh request for an aircraft manufacturing plant or something on the airport, you know, the a pretty large scale kind of activity.

And we do have you know, reserve we've reserved area on that west side in for that kind of condition.

If if you do have a user who needs a large plot of land, you have that capability.

And that's that's really what your your situation affords.

You have the land for any really any kind of development that might come along.

Um, like I said, we explored the commercial passenger service avenue.

That would have kind of changed the game if we felt like that was a viable option uh in terms of what you could do.

You might have to make harder choices in that case, because you would have to be reserving much larger areas of land for uh passenger terminal facility and and uh all the support terminal services to go along with that.

Uh since we're focused on general aviation um and the possibility for air cargo, you have more than enough capacity to handle the growth that would come along with that, including some some large-scale operators if if that should happen.

So I don't see any conflicts in terms of how you might develop over time.

So generally, none none of our staging is mutually exclusive.

Where if for some reason, I mean, obviously conditions will change and we will have different councils with different views and everything.

Sure.

So we might drift in different ways in the commercial market, but but in general, for this master plan, there's there's there's no internally mutually exclusive pieces.

We could do it all if magically we had the funding and the will to do it.

All right, yeah.

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

That's all my question, sir.

Representative from District 4.

Thank you.

Uh you are pretty, yeah.

So the creeks to the north and south of the runway create some problems in terms of if you wanted to extend the primary runway.

Um those create some issues.

Uh and you have safety areas off of each end of the runways that you are meant to be keep cleared, meant to be cleared.

Uh so you can't really do much in terms of development north and south.

Are you talking beyond the airport property boundary?

To extend the runway further.

Yeah, yeah.

So you can't.

The I mean, money and engineering can do all kinds of things.

But uh the creeks are your limiting factor there.

We don't, yeah, and and the creeks we show them here.

Uh, you know, we explored that.

We had some alternatives that showed extensions to the runway.

Um, and we talked about this pretty extensively with our committee and and ultimately determined that the length of your runway right now can very much serve the fleet mix of aircraft that is using the airport now and into the future.

So the benefit you would get from extending um uh is not as much uh as as what it would cost in terms of having to touch those creeks and the and the floodplains along with that.

Uh so that was kind of the decision uh thought process as we went through that.

Um the the benefit just was not there uh in terms of the cost to have to touch those creeks.

Perfect, thank you.

Yeah.

Okay, any other questions for staff representative from district one.

Um I wanted to mark me down for approval.

Okay, move forward.

Are we doing that at this time?

What are we doing?

My apologies.

We are seeking direction to bring this back for council approval at an upcoming council meeting.

Thank you.

Okay.

Anyone else?

Okay.

Yep.

Okay, got it, got it.

Uh so I I just want to it doesn't have to be today, uh, but if I could have it this week, uh, because I do get emails periodically on projects, and so in the questions here that I submitted, it says all development or proposal opportunities that were presented, declined, or not accepted.

And then if you look at the answers, it says, in summary, we get a lot of proposals, and there's and then they list the two.

I I think I was broad enough to say, yeah, I'm interested in those two, the more than the two.

Uh and so if we could adjust that and send me that information for me to review it, I I'd greatly appreciate that.

I I want to know uh all meaning all development opportunities uh that were presented and declined.

So if if we can get that this week to me, I I'd greatly appreciate that.

Then I was redirected to the um index here online, thank you for that.

But not listed is for example EMAS bid 300 by 150.

Now I looked it up on internet, I got it.

But I'm just saying uh, you know, you ask us to send in the questions, and um I I don't I don't know that it it got a thorough I'll leave it anyway.

That's it.

Help me understand the methodology on the you've identified these ultimate hangers.

So if you go to I don't let me see, I can tell you what slide it is.

Um so if we're looking at well, while I while before I don't go there, can you orient me?

So this this is designed to talk about future aviation, and so uh I'm very interested in future aviation, meaning UNT football, basketball, etc.

Not going down the lines if we can wrestle that away here.

Sure.

What where does that fall in this report?

So uh, you know, charter operations uh would fall under uh what's called the part 135 or uh yeah, part 135 uh air taxi type of operation.

Um and so any time you have uh uh college uh athletics transportation, you know, they're they're operating under part 135.

Um and we do uh account for those operations in our forecasts.

Um it is a smaller number relative to just the other activities going on in the airport.

Um and you certainly accommodate uh a good uh number of charter operations at the airport on an annual basis.

Uh so you can certainly accommodate uh accommodate that into the future.

If you're talking about uh, you know, uh is the question kind of getting into part 139 certification and and whether you can handle football charters and and some of the larger charter operations, or yeah.

Moreover, is that a business that that your report should supports that we go after?

One what where is that intermediate short what changes need to be required to achieve that too?

So the charter activity going on at the airport now, obviously can continue.

We don't specific to the teams, specific to the teams.

So you can handle football teams or I'm sorry, the basketball teams, smaller groups of people uh you have no problem with currently, you don't have to make any changes to accommodate that traffic.

If you're talking about bringing in charters for football teams, you know, generally they're they're up they're operating out of um you know bigger aircraft on an unscheduled basis.

Um that is where we would get into discussing uh the possibility of becoming a Part 139 uh certificated airport where you can handle unscheduled operations by larger aircraft uh with more than uh 30 passenger seats.

Um and so when you get into that realm, then you're talking going down the 139 path of certification, you have uh a pretty extensive uh procedure to go through to get FAA approval of that.

Um and even if you want to seek part 139 certification, there's no guarantee the FA will grant it.

They might say, well, there's a number of other 139 airports in the area.

We're fine with that.

Uh we're gonna continue to have those operations go to those airports.

Because the FA would have to broaden their services and and uh uh uh what they the services offer to your airport as a result.

But if you were successful in getting 139 certification that would increase um the the expenses in terms of your aircraft rescue and firefighting uh requirements and and some of the uh capabilities of the airfield would have to be improved to meet those higher standards.

Okay.

We basically in our analysis we we just determined was that you can continue to accommodate uh a large scale of charter operations with the existing facility as is.

Uh we do not recommend pursuing 139 certification.

Um there's a lot of expense involved in that with very little benefit.

Uh you might get a handful of football charters per year, but the amount of revenue you would generate off of those would not come close to paying for all everything you would have to do to go through the 139 certification.

Got it.

Okay, thank you very much.

That's probably a long answer for that.

No, no, it's great.

Thank you very much.

And and and that is outlined the one the part 139 is is outlined in our in our answer.

So thank you very much for that.

Yes, so this is appropriate slide.

So my question is so we have all the different individual uh ultimate hangars in yellow there plugged in.

What's the is that what's the methodology plugging those in?

Yeah, so this is conceptual.

Um we want to identify some hangar types and sizes, like I mentioned, that are going to accommodate the kind of our target market for the east side, which are more sophisticated larger business jets.

And so that is largely how we've structured some of these hangar layouts.

And you know, this is based upon our experience in the industry and in a lot of other airports where you have new hangar developments occur.

We want to be as efficient uh with the land as possible so we can uh you know generate as much capacity uh within the the space constraints that we have.

Um but we also want to provide a variety uh of sizes just to show uh the the capabilities when this land gets developed or redeveloped, uh you know, the the private uh uh organizations that fund will though they're gonna design this however they need to to meet the needs of their customers.

So this is conceptual just to show you how it could be laid out.

Uh the actuality actuality of how it gets developed will will probably be a little bit different.

So great, great, great point, thank you.

So then my question would be I want to make sure that this doesn't go going to my first question.

If we have this layout and someone comes with a proposal that this hadn't said, hey, no, we have uh another plan and it doesn't match a proposal.

No, that it will not be restricting in that way.

Okay.

Basically, what what will happen is Ryan and his staff and the city staff will look at the proposal, make sure it it aligns with kind of the the overarching concept of the master plan.

But if it you know if their hangar is you know a slightly different size or oriented in slightly different way, that that does not restrict them from do developing that land the way that they want to.

What we'll do or what the airport will do uh after the fact is they'll uh do what's called a pen and ink change to the ALP to reflect the as belt condition of that of that development.

And and I also just want to add that about a year ago, council adopted a leasing and development policy for the airport.

So we will also look to that policy to help direct us on when we accept development for the airport.

One of the what we call principal development criteria in that policy uh is that it substantially conforms or at least does not conflict with the master plan.

So just want to add that in.

Yeah, so I so I I just want to make sure the yellow is not considered part of the master plan.

It's it's conceptual, it's then that, but if we're again, if we're using a master plan as a guiding light, and this is conceptual, uh, there's a conflict point there in my mind, right?

So I I need to make sure everything in yellow is fair game, open, unspecified, open to be planned, and by and large falls within the concept of we want to build something here.

Yeah, what what largely what this means is that these are areas that are reserved for aeronautical use.

That's what it means.

And aeronautical use, uh, typically we're talking about hangar development, apron spaces, and taxi lanes.

Um so showing hangers in these areas is just identifying we're reserving these areas for aeronautical use.

That the layouts of the hangars are always going to change uh when the development actually occurs.

And I'm gonna try to speed up so where's the non-aeronautical use?

So that is focused largely on the west side, these yellow parcels, and that is where we're taking advantage of that frontage with 288 uh to help diversify revenue streams for the airport.

So I I guess my my question would be, and this is more of a Ryan thing.

I thought the I thought I thought we were having success at food trucks out there.

Uh like the so if we're increasing the activity at the airport, and you got to drive six, seven, eight miles, 15, 20 minutes to go eat something.

It seems like we would have have carve out some uses on the west, get it, but on the east, there's nothing like you you don't anticipate on the west side in terms of uh commercial yeah, no, on the I get it on the west, and in the future, hey, we're gonna incorporate these things, but it's all sandwiched down there.

I guess you're you're saying that what is that?

Is that 1.3 there that's orange?

So that little area, that area is reserved for a surface parking lot.

That is with that non-aeronautical use.

Got it.

Um, and that is needed uh to support one of the tenants on the airport.

Um the rest of the area, because it is you know, we we are getting to a pretty constrained standpoint on the east side, we did want to reserve all that area as much as possible for aeronautical use.

And that's that's not necessarily something that the airport can make uh a total decision on.

The FAA will chime in on that as well and say you we want as much of this area to be used for aeronautical purposes as possible.

We understand, you know, they might understand on the west side where you have uh a large green field space uh with frontage on a on a highway, using some of that for uh non-aeronautical.

But in this case, since most of this is accessible to the airfield, uh they want us to keep uh our focus on aeronautical uses.

And so I may be oversimplifying and and just ignorant on how it works, right?

And so help me out though, but every airport I've gone to has restaurants because you you're you know, you're yeah, so is that not a is that a not available use?

Like it you can't plug in that.

I mean, that it's it's a need, certainly.

As you grow, that becomes an increasing need.

And if this is a plan for 2030, again, we're not gonna solve it today.

I I I my point remains the same.

I I think um well-intentioned.

I may just be hyper focused on more pragmatic uses and and actual on-the-ground uses versus conceptual.

I just you answered my question, and and I'll just I I just if if staff can get me an information on what's been declined and all the requests we received, I'll take a look at that.

Putting a pin in the fact that I have concerns about parking, that we've reserved this giant parking in the middle, uh, and and uh I I that's to me very inefficient.

I I don't think that's very I mean, and and I'll I'll take your word for it that other people do it, but just to the east of the fire station to put a to hang a right there, that seems weird to me.

Like I so I just I don't know that it's I get it it's conceptual, but I don't know if it's conceptual, like actual this is advised if someone came in tomorrow and said let's build something immediately to the east of our fire station and uh all the access components and all those things, if that makes sense.

I it may, I just don't understand.

Um, and so those are my concerns that there's just a bunch of boxes on here uh that aren't strategically placed or but they're just to say, hey, yeah, something could go here.

Uh I just think it could have been uh presented differently in my estimation.

But uh I I won't believe the point if some if the staff can give me those things, I'll I'll go from there.

Uh and thank you for the question answers on the 139 versus 135.

Appreciate it.

Sure.

Any other questions for staff?

Representative district corner.

Real quick simple question.

It says develop new tower on our near-existing site.

Is that uh is that short-term, long-term, or it's not a part.

I understand that that's not a part of the finances.

We have that included in the program.

It's a long-term project.

Okay, long term.

Yeah, and you know, that's related to you know the feedback we got from the controllers was that their space is pretty constrained.

And at some point in the future, if they want to add more controllers, they're probably gonna need a larger space.

And so we've put a placeholder in the master plan for a new tower in that kind of to accommodate that scenario.

Would a tower be taller?

Could be.

Um, you know, the FAA would come in and do an analysis of that.

The FAA largely uh leads those uh types of studies and on uh tower placements and and height.

Um I don't recall getting any feedback from controllers that the height is an issue.

Okay.

Um but uh but that that would all be evaluated at that time.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Sure.

Representative district five.

Quick general question, I guess it's for you, Ryan.

So as we're we're moving forward with this, what's the linchpin on this?

Are these things that we need to include in our conversations to our federal representatives as things that that we need to grow the airport in terms of funding?

So right now you'll see the in terms of the short-term projects, it lines very much with our uh CIP that's part of the budget process, and we're very fortunate that we're able to use a lot of existing grant funding that was made available during COVID, uh specifically the airport infrastructure grants to fund a lot of the projects we have in the short term.

Uh what the process is is that we uh truthfully we uh work with TextOt very closely, and Text Dot is pretty much our go-through to the FAA, and they prioritize projects accordingly.

Uh a lot of our projects that are listed in this report uh I think would would compete very well against other airports uh across the nation for that FAA funding.

Of course, we find ourselves in a position where we could not get um funding for a project that we felt was very needed.

Our options could involve funding it ourselves, which no one really likes.

Uh we could also go for direct funding either from the state or the federal government, and that might involve uh working with our our elected leaders.

At this point, for short-term projects, we don't have that need, uh, but that is always something to to seek direct funding for any projects in the future where we just can't seem to get the FAF FAA funding to bring it across the across the finish line.

Yeah.

Okay.

Any anyone else?

Uh just to add one thing, not a question, but to add uh this the AIS talks about uh stakeholder input being part of this.

I didn't see that in the in the hyperlinks uh that on the webpage.

So if someone could send me a any any stakeholder input as well.

So applications and stakeholder input would be great.

Thank you very much.

Appreciate your your your hard work.

Thank you, Ryan.

Uh that takes us to that concludes item A, takes us to item B.

ID 252041 receiver report, whole discussion, give staff direction regarding the proposed early closure and alternative work schedule pilot program.

Good afternoon, Amy Castlick, Chief Strategic Officer.

Um, I'm here today to share a proposed uh proposal on the early closure of city facilities as well as implementation of alternative work schedules.

This effort is really about creating balance by supporting employee well-being while continuing to provide exceptional services to the public.

It also supports and is in line with council's objective to ensure that Denton is an employer of choice to provide a bit of background in 2020 during the COVID-19 pandemic, we learned that local government employees are more than capable of delivering services while working remotely.

In 2023, the city adopted a hybrid work policy allowing for up to two days of remote work per week.

This was a big step towards continued flexibility as we return to working in the office.

Feedback in the 2024 employee survey made the case for further change.

While employees indicated that work life balance is one of their key satisfactions with Denton as an employer.

They also indicated that they wanted more alternative work schedules.

After the discussion, a committee of representatives from across the organization was formed to examine the operational impacts of such a pilot as well as analyze relevant data.

From this, we developed a proposal that really does go beyond that initial vision for a four and a half day work week to one that balances operational needs with employee well-being.

So this proposal outlining a standardized approach to alternative schedules while providing clear guidance and preserving flexibility for directors in meeting their operational needs was approved by the city manager last month.

So this is the makeup of that cross-functional team that I mentioned.

From this group, we formed four subcommittees with a focus on policy, service delivery, operations, and communications.

Subcommittees evaluated relevant policies and procedures, assessed internal impacts, and gathered input for from directors in order to understand current practices across the organization.

They surveyed other cities with alternative work schedules and differing public facing hours, and then drafted a comprehensive internal and external communication plan.

So under the proposed pilot, public facing hours will be reduced from 45 to 40 per week.

You'll see here a list of offices that are scheduled then to close as part of this pilot at noon on Fridays.

This will give employees dedicated time for strategic work, training, and collaboration.

By creating time for planning and problem solving or just providing time to do uninterrupted work, we believe that we can deliver a better experience for the community while supporting our employees.

We've also shared with you a list of facilities that are not set to be closed early on Fridays.

However, directors will have the opportunity to offer alternative schedules for their employees as operations allow.

So along with a shift in public hours, we'll be piloting a standardized approach to alternative work schedules.

This provides consistency while again giving directors the flexibility to manage their operations based on service needs.

The pilot includes options for compressed work weeks, which we'll provide in grade next slide, as well as staggered hours, flexible start and end times, and continued access to remote work, which is very popular with our employees.

Together, these options again offer flexibility in how we work while maintaining our commitment to exceptional services.

To support successful implementation of this pilot, we've identified four key operational drivers that we want directors to consider and determining eligibility and applying these schedules within their work groups.

This is going to be based on job-specific requirements and ensuring that operations are appropriately staffed, that budgets are not negatively impacted, and that employees' well-being continues to be prioritized.

So here's that detailed list of options that will be providing directors for consideration in how they manage 40-hour work weeks and for exempt employees and 80-hour pay period.

This includes the traditional five-day work week, four 10-hour shifts, four and a half work weeks, four and a half-day work weeks, and then 980 schedules for exempt staff.

Always shape the decisions that our directors are making.

And they'll need to attend required training on proper scheduling and time card management.

So if we see receive your approval, we're going to begin the pilot with early closures starting Friday, January the 2nd.

We'll then launch alternative work schedules with the goal of being fully implemented by March 1st.

To prepare the community, we will implement the communication plan that we've created to ensure that the public is informed and that they know how to access information and services on Friday afternoons when offices are closed to the public.

We are prepared to launch that communication as early today based on the direction that we receive.

We're going to continue to update our employees through employee forums, and then we will be holding uh individual departmental information meetings as we move into implementing alternative work schedules.

So throughout the pilot, we're going to be monitoring and evaluating quantitative and qualitative data around recruitment, retention, service performance.

We're also going to continue to get feedback from both the community and our employees.

At the end, we're going to review all this data to determine whether or not this pilot was successful, and then we plan on bringing a recommendation to the city manager and to council in April of 2027.

Our goal is to build a sustainable, flexible model that supports employee well-being while maintaining strong service delivery.

And with that, questions?

Thank you very much.

Question for staff representative from district six then two.

Hi, uh Councilperson Jester, thank you for the presentation.

Um I'm curious as to why there's no built-in check-in for a year.

It seems like maybe having a six-month director check-in.

Is this working for your department?

Is it not?

Why?

Complaints, etc., so that we can make adjustments, or is there something that maybe isn't part of the presentation that you all plan to do?

That's certainly part of the process to continue to have those check-ins, get those feedbacks.

We'll be doing the employee survey, we'll be doing the community survey, but just yes, absolutely continual evaluation of the program.

And then directors have flexibility within their departments if they find that someone is not working as well or being as productive or something to revoke that.

This isn't a contractual obligation that we are providing.

Absolutely.

Okay, thank you.

Representative from district two.

Yeah, I thank you, Council Jester.

I had a similar questions about the period of check-in, especially during a pilot program.

Um, so um first let me say uh I I love that we're trying to be innovative and and use you know different modalities to to uh address personnel issues.

Um I think that's really great.

We see that all across the country, across the world where we're we're trying to adapt not just to the same old, same old, but try other approaches.

So I really I really like that.

Um in general, I I I liked what I heard.

I I mean encourage you, I'll encourage council to go forward with that.

But I did have the the one piece that I was uh I had a couple of questions on, and that is um as part of service levels part of touching base with our community.

Um so let me just confirm on Friday afternoons there will be no engagement at all available to the public except for those uh animal services and whatever in the right-hand column.

There'll be online service options, but they will not be able to come into a city facility and re receive services afternoon on Friday, but they will have online and self-service options.

Okay.

Um I I would engage the public on that.

Um there's there, I think there's concerns that that differently we have 164,000 people and they all have different schedules, and and how they interact with the government is a little tricky as we all try to herd the cats as it were.

Um was any thought given to having a flexible half day period for for staff uh in different divisions in different areas so that we were not hitting all of government in one half day period, or is that not viable?

Um we did not discuss altering that half day at different facilities.

Um I will say we collected data around customer interactions Friday afternoon, and it is it is very it it really is.

It is quite minimal.

There are significant reductions even in phone calls that are coming in and people that are coming into our offices for service.

Oh no, I appreciate that.

That puts a lot of color on it.

Um I'm glad that you were you're anticipating that kind of question.

Um yeah, I I think this is really great.

I I would concur with Councilor Jester, and I'm assuming the rest of the council that we we do, and you said it yourself.

We have to keep our service levels high.

Um but uh I think um it's worth a try to do the an innovative approach to uh employee satisfaction.

So uh yeah, just be mindful and do metrics on our service levels is all absolutely that's part of the service level agreements.

And we uh one thing we failed to mention, we've been keeping tabs of people and the activity into the city hall building uh from Friday afternoon on, and there's not I mean, literally, I've sat at the desk for a couple hours and nobody calls and nobody comes in.

The only time anyone's come in uh at all has been for an open records, and uh that's far and few between on a Friday afternoon.

Okay, representative from District Four There's a joke that says that you can make an make an old lady say an ugly word by saying bingo.

Um and that's and that's what I think is you get it.

I like it.

Keep going.

Keep going.

I I think I think we're gonna have the same response when people reach for a door at two o'clock on Friday afternoon.

They've got some kind of business to conduct and and they find a locked door.

Um I I think I think our our and and goodness knows I want to I want to support our employees, but more than that, I want to support our citizens.

And uh, and I think this compromises that that level of service.

I will not support this.

Okay, uh anyone else, representative district five.

Oh my god, as I live and breathe.

I'm I have to agree with council member Holland.

I think um yeah, watch out now.

We're gonna run council in a minute, Joe.

Um however, I'm willing to try it.

Um I I'm I'm skeptical on what the community response is gonna be.

So I'm a I'm a tacit yes, mayor.

My question is what is citizen engagement look like?

I understand that we're going to put information out about the changes to the citizens.

What is the feedback?

How is that gonna be conducted?

Are we doing and and I'm my hope is that we're gonna do something more than a than a simple survey, like real-time feedback.

Do we have that in the plan?

Yes.

Yes, we we have mechanisms.

Um I say real time.

One of the things that we've talked about is using Zen City to gain that sentiment and using that tool to understand community sentiment as well.

I I do want to say something because at the last not this last review, but the one before that.

I mentioned to council that we were working on alternative work schedules and a um something to uh benefit our employees a little bit more and ask at that time if council had any concerns, and I received none.

This is shocking to me to hear some concerns from council members who did not voice their concern previously, because I specifically ask about it and said, does you any of you have a problem with us looking at the alternative work schedules and do you have a problem?

Uh we're looking at closing half a day like Louisville, Carrollton, and other cities do.

No one said a word to me, nor did they bring it up at any other time.

So now our staff have gone through hours and hours and hours of work as a team across this organization.

I mean levels of staff, all different levels, supervisors, directors, you name it, to go through this effort to try to come up with schedules that would work for all departments.

Some departments would not have a change, they would stay open five days a week.

It's um it's disappointing because I will tell you the hours of staff time is enormous having gone through this and trying to make sure they covered all their bases.

And so I have to share that with you because I am disappointed.

I um I appreciate that.

Representative from District 5.

I appreciate that feedback from the city manager.

Um I will speak for Councilmember Holland when we say we obviously obviously always appreciate the amount of staff time that goes into these things.

We know that they're carefully researched and vetted and brought to us.

Now I will speak for myself when I said this.

I wasn't aware that there was going to be a reduction in public facing hours.

I understood that we were going to change some of the employee hours.

I was not aware in the reduction in public facing hours.

Having said that, I'm willing to try it, but I was not aware of that when we discussed that in your review.

So I'm I'm generally supportive.

Like I said, I'm just um I'm skeptical, but very open to it.

So thank you very much.

Anyone else?

Representative district one.

I certainly do appreciate the um city manager's words.

Um, but I'm not real sure if I appreciate the sentiment um as they were, you know, communicated to us.

I see this as something that we're gonna support.

I'm gonna support it, and and and you know, I think it's a great thing.

Um, but you know, we still have to be reminded that we you know we're the council, and if we choose to change our minds about something, then that's our prerogative to do that.

Uh city manager, the city manager, you know, uh highly I respect your words and your thoughts.

Uh, but I certainly do also appreciate you allowing us to um you know change our minds if we if we feel the feel like we need to.

So I think this is really great.

I did have a question uh regarding uh the um the uh entities that work with the city, so this is just chamber and discovered didn't, you know, and and people like that that you know kind of work back and forth.

Um are they already on board?

Um have they we had any communications with them?

I know the chamber and and all of those folks are kind of dependent on committees, you know, to make decisions and and that and the like.

Thank you.

Good afternoon, Christine Taylor, assistant city manager.

So the we do have a current lease with the Chamber of Commerce uh in the development services building.

Uh Discover Denton is city employees, so they'll move to this and and not sure of their office space for the future.

Um but this does not impact their schedules, they'll be able to work whatever they want.

Employees will still have access to the building, and like with utilizing the building after hours now, if the chamber needs to use it, they'd be responsible just for uh making sure people are out of the building.

So we have had conversations with uh Aaron.

Okay.

Thank you.

That's all I add.

Anyone else?

Uh Mayor Purtoon.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um, I do appreciate all of the time that is put in to um trying to make Dutton a great place to work where people want to work here and they want to keep working here.

Um, and that's really important for consistency of service.

It helps us uh attract and retain better employees, it keeps our existing employees happier.

And I know I work I work better when I'm happy to go to work.

Um so I do think there's value in, you know, and there's better output potentially for citizens when we have good staff and when our staff are happy to be here.

Um so I do think there's value in that.

Um I do appreciate that we've gone from airports to pilots.

I just want to point that out.

I was waiting for that one.

Um so I mean, absolutely, I'm gonna be supportive of trying this out, collecting feedback, seeing what kind of response we get.

Um I did have a question about the 9080 arrangement.

I've never heard of that arrangement, and my brain was struggling to understand an example of what that might look like.

So that would look like so an exempt an exempt staff member, they would they would work there 80 hours over nine days, so perhaps part of that is staying late for council that that goes into that 80 hours that they're gonna work during that during that time period.

They might work till 6, 7 p.m.

one night, come in early, whatever the case may be, they're getting that 80 hours in nine days, and then the theory then would be they would have Friday off.

So let's say you have two, you have two people in an office that qualify for this one that are using this schedule, they might alternate Fridays.

That would be how that essentially would work.

Okay, so you're instead of having a consistent I work nine hours or ten hours every day that I'm here, I might work a normal, you know, shift one day, a longer one another day, and spread it out over nine days instead of four.

Right, so they're getting their 80 hours in that nine-day period.

Okay, so you'd be getting a day off every other Friday, basically.

Basically, yes.

Okay.

Um have staff tried all of these options so far, and is there one that people seem to prefer more than another or so we already have people in the organization that are working four tens um that is popular with those individuals.

I do not believe we have anyone that is working 980s.

The traditional obviously is is very popular within, you know, up to the two days remote.

Um, I think the four and a half day is the only one.

I believe in our survey we had one department say they had someone that is working a schedule that looks like that.

So there are some differing schedules going on across the organization.

This really puts some policy and guidance behind it and creates a standard.

Okay, and it's like a menu people can choose from depending on their department, depending on their needs, their family.

Yes, it's for those directors to determine what is best for their department's operations.

Right.

Um I think that's all the question I have.

I'm supportive of the pilot and continuing to collect feedback from both staff and our citizens.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

And I failed to mention earlier as part of that self-service.

There is the 311, which is operated 24-7.

So that will always be available to our residents.

Anyone else?

Uh so you generally have uh an enough support.

I'll lend my support to that.

And I'll say this, I've experienced this both in Louisville when I showed up afternoon and and everyone was off.

Uh, and so it was no big deal.

I experienced it the here in Denton.

I needed to drop off something at the at the landfill uh oversized cardboard box, and they were closing at four.

And so I came back the next day and got it done.

So people will adjust.

And I do want to thank staff for I think it's it's important to recognize all the great work we do as a city and service we provide, and certainly people appreciate that, but I don't know that there's anyone else in the region that has a 311 system uh that has all the other different elements we provide, and so we've we've gone well above uh what we need to do as a baseline, and then uh this doesn't affect this, and but also I think it's important for me.

Um there are staff members that have kids that have doctors' appointments, those sort of things that normally they're taking off and putting strain on others.

This you can now it have peace of mind and schedule all your doctor's appointments on Fridays and that sort of thing, which then gives uh less interruptions to the week in in theory, and and so I think it's a really good idea, and uh and especially in a year where we're we're not doing the merit increases and some other things, at least to give them uh give the staff some opportunities to uh benefit from uh working here at the city of Denton is is really important.

So again, I'm I'm supportive and the majority is as well, so look forward to the updates.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

That takes us to item C.

This is our last work session, and it's item C ID 2521 2158, receive a presentation whole discussion regarding options for appointment on of an interim city manager.

Okay, good afternoon, Mayor City Council Megan Gilbreth, Director of Human Resources.

Um, today we're gonna discuss options for consideration regarding the city manager succession process.

Um, as you all know, City Manager Hensley's last day with the organization is March 31st of 2026.

Um following that date, she will use her accrued leave through May 30th.

From a financial standpoint, she'll continue to receive her regular annual salary using accrued leave as well as will be um we'll receive any other payable amounts to her under her existing employment contract.

Next, I wanted to touch base on the general timeline and cost associated with a full city manager recruitment.

A typical search takes approximately four to six months or longer, depending on the size of the candidate pool and how many rounds of interviews council wants to hold in terms of cost, cities generally spend 20 to 25 percent of a first year annual compensation in the recruitment process, and that typically includes things like candidate travel, relocation, and related expenses.

So overall, it is a time and resource intensive process.

In discussing the interim city manager appointment options, there are three available choices for consideration.

Option one would be to appoint an interim now, which and which in consultation with the city manager's office is staff's recommendation.

Um option two is to wait and appoint someone at a later date, and then option three would be to not appoint an interim at this time.

Um each option has its pros and cons.

Appointing an interim offers immediate leadership continuity and stability, giving the city time for a thoughtful recruitment process, helps manage existing financial factors.

Um interapointments can also bring some uncertainty, including a risk of dual expectations and then some ambiguity for our external partners.

Um there are uh three options we'd also like to discuss related to the full city manager recruitment.

Um the first option is to delay the full recruitment pending a working interview for the interim in the capacity for about a year or a duration selected by the council in consultation with the city manager's office.

This is staff's recommendation.

Um option two is to start the recruitment after the current city manager leaves, and then option three would be to begin the full recruitment immediately.

When we're considering these options, the main uh things to take in mind are the leadership continuity, organizational readiness, timing and market conditions, our financial impacts, and the level of community and council engagement you all want in that process.

So for today, staff is requesting direction on appointing an interim city manager as well as providing direction on when to start the city manager recruitment process.

Okay, thank you very much.

Uh questions for staff and also direction.

Any any questions?

Um my direction to uh the appointment is for us to uh do the appointment now and I let me see and provide direction on when to start the city management recruitment process.

Um I would just ASAP.

Okay.

Thank you.

Okay.

Uh representative district six.

Uh if if we're given direction, I also want to note thank you so much for helping with the pros and cons, uh, some of the answers and the uh backup materials that uh council member uh I forget which council member actually asked some of those questions now, I think about it, but uh I I would say I would uh am in favor of appointing an interim city manager as soon as possible.

Uh and as far as providing direction as to when to start the city manager recruitment process, I think we should at least give you know a minimum of maybe six months for that interim uh to to kind of see where we are at that time.

So that would be my direction.

Okay.

Anyone else?

Representative district five.

Megan, can you um help me with help me with a couple of things?

So why does staff recommend option one in terms of the recruitment?

The recruitment, delaying it, it allows um you know the succession to come naturally within the organization, it creates stability.

There's kind of a known commodity within the organization, and so in a period of time when you're already going through significant change, it creates a little bit of uh stability and continuity in our leadership.

Is there are there any laws or or statutes that say we have to have we have to do any of this, or can we basically do whatever we want?

I'm gonna defer to my legal partners.

Um but I'm not sure.

Like in terms of the in terms of you know, posting, have an open process.

Do we have flexibility with how we do this process?

Oh, sure, as far as the process goes, a lot of flexibility.

Yeah.

Um the only caveat is yeah, the charter says you have to have a city manager.

But sure, okay.

But how do you get there?

However, you get there is up to the council.

Okay.

Uh something else I've been I've been thinking about this this deeply too.

Well, an a growing number of of large organizations, Fortune 500 companies, they are doing away with the the interim process.

They're going straight to the successor.

Any thoughts on why we have to even have an interim.

You don't have to have an interim.

That's one of the options, and so I'm presenting those to you today, and you guys can ultimately decide what you think is best for the city and the continuity of operations.

Perhaps um some of my colleagues might have some thoughts on that.

I'm curious as to if we all even want to have an interim, or if we just want to just want to have the conversation.

Um I'm okay with I'm okay with um staff recommendation.

So um, but I'd love to hear if anyone wants to do anything different because I'm since we have so much latitude and flexibility in this decision.

I don't think we necessarily have to do it the way that it always has been done in the past, just because he's why we always done it that way.

We should always keep doing it that way.

I don't know if that's always the best way to go.

So I'd love to hear some some thoughts on that.

Okay, anyone else?

Representative from District 4 and then two.

Thank you.

Uh tell me what uh working interview looks like.

Um basically it's an opportunity.

You can uh you choose on the amount of time that you want, but it's in a period of time for you all to evaluate the internal interim candidate that you select.

So basically they take on all the the responsibilities, you appoint them with the authority of the city manager, and you basically evaluate how they do in the job.

But we're talking about an interim.

Correct.

Okay.

Okay.

Um I I think that it's it's my opinion that we have three excellent uh deputy and assistant city managers currently, and I wonder if an interim is necessary.

Uh when the city manager leaves, I don't mean leaves.

When when she's out of the office, I I don't feel like we're in any kind of peril at all.

I thought I'm very, very comfortable with the with the deputy and and assistant city managers that that that take over when Sarah leaves.

I'm I'm not positive that I even feel the need for that.

So uh what do you think of them?

What do you what do you think of that?

So I don't know what may or I don't know where that puts me on the on the list, but but uh um can I add one thing to that?

I think the only thing that I would add with the interim capacity is it allows Sarah as an opportunity while she's still here to work as an advisor to that interim if you were to appoint that individual now versus waiting until she leaves for that transition.

And that certainly makes sense, but frankly, I would expect that regardless.

Yeah.

I think she would I think she would would would help.

I'm convinced anyway she could.

Yeah, anyway she could.

I don't know where that puts me, sir.

Uh okay.

Thank you.

Yep.

Uh representative from district two.

Thank you.

I I I think I I'm gonna encourage I'm hope the mayor will have us do several rounds because this is a really big important decision, and we all kind of generally need to be in a fairly consistent um place.

Um I hope we'll get there uh with lots of dialogue.

I think it's one of the most important decisions we'll make.

Um so that said, let me let me something that was brought up a second ago is um what Max said about like well, we have to have city manager.

So is really option three the in the previous slide, is that really an option?

No interim, because we what is what does that mean if we have to have a position in the charter representing the city manager?

How does that I just help me understand?

I can have Mac speak to the charter because I'm not familiar with that language entirely, but when it comes to if we if you don't technically have the city manager, that level of authority would go, it would be the the DCM and the ACMs reporting to you all.

It creates a level of complexity, but go ahead, it could be and my understanding of that option three there would basically be we're not going to go with an interim, we'll move directly to hiring a city manager.

Okay.

But if there could be, if you if you do that though, there could be a gap in time, right?

I mean, we could be looking at a period of time where we don't hire fast enough, yeah.

That's my exact next question.

If the time period is four to six months, yeah.

Um we we can do our best to have special call meetings and and other things that we can accelerate this process as best we can, but when I'm gonna see them before I was on council when I participated in Sarah's hiring, it's lengthy.

I mean, we don't want to move at the speed of government, but we sometimes move at the speed of government.

Um so can we honestly complete that process in time to to not have some sort of transitional stage?

If you're looking to hire externally, no.

If you're reviewing internally, you've got your candidates here, and you can go through that evaluation process as quickly or as slowly as you would like.

So and I I love that you're anticipating my very next question.

Should we not be making at least having a light discussion about whether we we are interested in an internal hire, external hire, or a hybrid combination of both?

I is that not part of this discussion, and if it's not, why is it not?

Can you help me understand that?

It it could it could and should be a part of the conversation, but I think that falls into how you handle the ultimate recruitment, right?

Your internal, your interim placement will come from an internal candidate.

So if you're just looking at how you handle the recruitment part, you can take those options and then further evaluate them to who you allow to, whether it's apply, go through the interview process.

You could include interview inner internal only, internal and external, external only.

I mean, there's a ton of ways that you could slice and dice that.

Okay, and then for if we were to choose to have an interim, because we we think the process might over you know go go too long, and we'll we'll need some sort of um are we are there any restrictions on where that can come from?

I hear some of the comments that we have very capable staff.

Um and I agree, we we have very capable staff that can lead the government.

Um but are we restricted to to do to have an interim in-house?

Are there I you know I I am aware of temporary interims that you can hire in other facilities and not from other locations to come in and just temporarily manage things that have no vested interest in in that in the government and just see shepherd us through the the transitional process.

Um so talk me through some of those options uh a little bit and where we can get folks from.

I mean, ultimately you all can decide on that collectively, however you want and where you want to source from.

I think there's always financial, yeah, just financial considerations and and that would be the largest playing factor.

Um I we have wonderful staff, and I think it's it's really considering the number of vacancies you have and some other things, I think it the in the level of of institutional knowledge and maintaining that.

Um you know, we've done a great job of documenting everything in the world better in the last few years.

So I think that's we we've really covered our bases a lot in that, but it still doesn't get around some of the issues of institutional knowledge and and the sort of directions that the city collectively is going.

That said, I I think I don't know how we get in front of the internal external hire discussion.

So I before I give directions, I would love to hear the rest of us weigh in.

If the mayor really wants me to do that, then I'll I'll do it at you know at the end.

But um, I I would like to hear more discussion from my fellows.

May I make a point of clarification or ask for a point of clarification?

Stage, yeah, sure.

Um, can someone please clarify what discussion should be taking place right now during the open meeting versus uh I know we've got a closed meeting, I assumed it was regarding this same topic.

I just want some clarification if we could before we continue as to what should be reserved for the closed session versus what should be uh discussed here.

Is that I hope that's all right.

Sure.

Um when the agenda committee put this on, it was really about process.

What was the process going to be that would lead to ultimately hiring a city manager?

And so that was put on that's the work session.

At city manager's request, it was also put on for a closed session in case you want to talk about individuals and their capacity to serve in that role.

That's what that's for as a placeholder is if you start wanting to talk about an individual specifically and their qualifications, that's what that would be there for.

Otherwise, the process is all open discussion.

Okay.

So to follow up, if you don't mind, we've already mentioned some specific individuals in our conversation.

Therefore, is it an appropriate time or or not uh to go into closed as we discuss individuals?

Well, if you want to go into closed session to start talking about individuals or qualifications, their skill sets, that would be a closed session discussion.

Okay.

That would be appropriate for closed session.

We're still open when we talk about process.

If you even want to go that far.

That's a question of for council if you want to go that far to start having those discussions today, or if you rather just stay with process today and then come back with individuals if you want to start talking about individuals at a later meeting.

That's certainly your prerogative.

And that's kind of where it was set up.

This was just a just in case the council wants to start talking about individuals, we have that ability today to do that.

Okay.

I just think it's hard, it's gonna be hard not to, but I will leave that up to the mayor's discretion.

Yeah.

Yeah, but I I I think it's perfectly fine to do that, but it's it I don't see them and can I don't see them the same.

The the process is the process after that, then there's a subsequent conversation on how do we how do we execute on that process.

But but no, uh, I don't want to conflate the two uh because you know, then you get the there's just too much ambiguity there.

It's what do you want the process to be now?

Who who do we who executes on that?

Okay, thank you.

Um you have the pro you don't have direction.

Uh that that's what I heard.

I'm gonna get the floor for now.

All right.

Well, we'll we'll see if there's a majority before we circle back.

Um any any any anyone else?

Uh Mayor Pro Tim.

Thanks, Mayor.

And thank you, Councilmember Jester, for bringing up the closed session.

I was about to point that out just to make sure that everybody knew there may be opportunities to go into a little more detail.

Um regarding the level that we're at right now.

Um, can you go back to the first recommendation slide?

Yes.

Okay.

Um when we say where did it go?

I think dual pay was on one of the slides that I read somewhere.

I see dual expectations there.

I thought there was one of those.

So when you're looking at compensation, you're gonna Sarah will obviously receive her compensation and then her payout come May 31st.

She'll get her regular salary through vacation accruals from the end of March through May.

Um there is an interim appointed, that individual would then likely receive interim compensation.

Um so there's a component there.

There's also an element if for if you decided to start the recruitment process now and you selected a candidate prior to Sarah's departure, then you may be paying two city managers, um, depending on if that candidate is seated before her departure and before her final payout.

So there's a couple of different ways that that could be um put together to where you do have a larger um financial obligation.

Okay, so there's this we're assuming uh an overlap of work time basically.

A minimum of two months, I guess.

Because once you're gone on yeah.

Um I do think we need to have an interim.

I think we need that clarity and that um sort of stability for all of our operations.

I think that that is important.

So I do think we need an interim, so I will say that.

I don't know about appointing immediately as you know, at least identifying someone as soon as possible.

Do we have the option to identify someone and have a later start date?

Obviously, not March 31st.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Um and then so I do support an interim and working on identifying who that person is with a later start date.

Definitely not, you know, next month or what's the option two, right?

What's that?

The option two.

Uh I think so.

I think option two is closest to what I'm trying to say.

All right, and then the next slide.

Oh, actually, um I also let's say that it were an internal candidate.

Um they really shouldn't be doing their current job plus interim, right?

So I I'm trying to also picture how all that backfilling would work because now you do are you creating a chain of interims basically, or you are.

Um you are.

Um if you choose an interim, uh, usually you move someone up uh as a temporary interim assistant or deputy city manager.

Again, you're talking about a five percent or a 10% increase, it's not that significant.

Um and they would stay in that role till you made your decision as a as a counsel for who you select for your uh city manager.

But in other words, we yes, we wouldn't leave it as a whole because it would be probably it'd be it's daunting as it is now with the different departments that they each have.

Yeah, you'd need someone to step in.

And the other part of it is quite frankly, it's good experience for them to experience uh being on these in the office and realizing all the different um balls you're juggling and things.

So it it happens, and this is this is not unusual across any organization when you have to fill a position and you kind of step up at some point you don't fill it, you know, you don't keep backfilling, it's just a matter of sitting on it, right?

Um so then on recruitment, I this one's hard because of such a big election coming up, including there will be a new mayor.

Um and I would imagine any potential permanent individual would want to know who the mayor's gonna be before they agree to the permanent position.

Um and there may or may not well, there's hold on, let me think.

Yeah, there's gonna be some turnover as well beyond the mayor.

Um I hesitate to move forward with the permanent recruitment at this point.

Um and I I'm struggling a little bit.

I I feel like even starting the process is a little challenging before the next council is seated.

Um, and I would be curious to hear my colleagues' thoughts on that of maybe starting the process.

I mean, it's it'd be kind of weird, I think, to start the process with this group and potentially end it with a different group.

Um so I'm struggling with that a little bit.

I I don't think going straight into a permanent um I I struggle with that as well.

Um I'm curious what everyone else thinks regarding potentially delaying the start of the permanent process until the next council is seated.

Okay.

Um got it.

Bear with me.

So even absent me, we can we can we can whittle it down.

So there is the interim, non-interim discussions off the table.

There's majority say they want some level of interim.

So moving that forward, the conversation forward, it's basically uh option one option two.

Um I think is that right?

Yes, yeah, either now or at a later decided.

That's right.

So um that that's a context, uh, representative from district six.

Thank you.

Thank you, and thank you for allowing me another couple of minutes to uh share my thoughts.

Uh what I would say is um, and I think I've mentioned before, you know, I have um spoken with staff that have left the city of Denton, including directors, including other positions, and uh kind of considered them exit interviews.

And the one thing when I bring up, because we've known for a while now that we're going to have a new city manager is stability.

Stability.

That is what I hear over and over again is continuity and stability is needed.

I personally am not for an interim gun for hire just here for a certain period of time, interim city manager because I believe we are a very unique city.

The fact that we have our own electric company, that we have our own wastewater distributions to other cities.

Uh, the what our budget looks like for the size of our city and the high growth area that we're in.

Um I personally don't believe we should have someone from the outside coming in, being an interim, and the other concern I've heard from leaving staff is just that other leaders in our city stagnate because they don't know what direction is going we're going to be going.

Um, and they don't know what the leaders uh likes and dislikes and the way they like to do things, so therefore nothing gets done.

So I I believe it's in our best interest to have an interim city manager.

I think we should front promote from within as far as the group that we have that is so experienced that knows our council, and I I can appreciate the concerns as far as should it be this council or another council, but this council changes every year.

We have two-year turnovers at that alternate.

So we we will not have one council that will see the new city manager through the next two years.

Uh, every year it's going to turn over.

So I personally have no problem giving my input and giving direction to uh what we should look at today.

Um, and I think the sooner the better.

In my opinion, we should have had this conversation months ago, so that our current city manager can start handing over a couple of departments, you know, each month so we can have as smooth of a transition as possible and not stop progress that we so desperately need and try to keep as many of our city staff leaders that we can in place versus the fear of having someone else come in and bring their own group and everyone needs to start looking for a job now.

I'm just putting my cards on the table.

That's another uh real concern uh that I have.

So that's why I'm I um share with you my thoughts and why I so strongly believe that we should have an interim city manager, we should appoint them as soon as possible, and that we should give that person a minimum of six months to see how they transition into that and to see if the next council is happy with them to then appoint them as the new city manager.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Representative from District 4.

Thank you.

Um some of you have have gone through this process before.

I have not, so I I will I will I will appreciate any any guidance I could get.

Where does one find uh an interim city manager?

Uh and that's my main question, but also has the city manager's position been advertised at large.

Does uh city manager digest have an ad for so I got it?

So the the short answer is uh, you know, you put out a search like RFP type anything, and if that's uh the direction of council or if direction of council is internal, there people have done it both ways in different organizations, so I won't nail that that part down, but it's there's a prescribed approach to how you want to bring in candidates, and it's it's the it's the worst kept secret in on the planet.

Everyone knows they're they they're all members of ICMA, they all go to the conference together.

That's where I talk about all the stuff, the consternation, and and it's just it's just full disclosure.

I am concerned about the level of candidates we're gonna get.

This is a very difficult place to work.

It we you look just go go look online uh because it has the minutes, and you go look at other Louisville three-hour meetings, Denton, 90, Great Bond, you know, it's just it's just a difficult place to work, and so there's all those things, so all that factors in, but everyone knows.

Everyone's watching this, perspective of applicants are watching this meeting now, and they're like, mm-hmm, or they're like, yeah, either way.

So it's one of those things where everyone knows, everyone knows I'm rolling off, everyone knows Mayor Cheney's rolled an offensive, they're going to a similar situation.

All those things are are the there's just known commodities that the people rotate, but their organization so different same from council members and mayors, they have a city manager's organization that is keenly aware of all the things we're discussing.

So you just figure out how are you gonna get that pool and that pool decides if they want to deal with Denton or not.

Is there an obvious source for a interim city manager?

Is there a pool of of people queuing up to uh for to be an interim?

The answer is that's why I picked a deputy city manager.

I if I sat in my review in November right there, and I said to this council, I'm gonna go through a process of interviewing the three assisted city managers, and I'm gonna pick one of them to be the deputy city manager through an interview process with depth department heads.

Three different panels, because I feel I said I'm going to be leaving soon, and I feel like you need someone who can step in.

One, when I'm gone, I'm gonna use up my vacation.

By the way, I'm using all my vacation up, so you don't have to pay me out.

Only gonna have my sick to be paid.

And I said that that was a commitment I made in my last review.

And so um the whole idea was of having a deputy city manager was to be able to step in as an interim if the council so choose to do that.

I'm not saying you have to do it.

I'm saying I set it up because it was helpful for me to have someone that was the deputy, and and then yes, two very capable assistant city managers.

Awesome.

But that was the whole idea, and that is what usually happens, not always.

I don't want to lead to make you like I'm leading you, but usually it's the deputy city manager.

I stepped in.

When Todd Heilman left, I was the deputy city manager.

This some of you, I think council member Beck was on it, mayor was on it.

Who else was Bird?

You they selected me, I was the deputy, and I served as the interim.

I don't know, I don't know how long it was.

Just a couple years, three years ago or something.

And and and I don't know how long I stayed on, but you did you did a process, you did it nationally.

You got about five people, and I ended up getting it.

Um, but that's how it works.

And yes, you can have uh you have an ICMA, TCMA, all these other different branches.

But the whole the whole idea, and I I was very honest with y'all that I was gonna pick a deputy that would be able to be the era parent if the council so choose chose to do it.

Okay, just so ma'am, what I heard was that you don't necessarily like bringing in an interim from the outside.

Is that what I heard?

Well, I I I'm gonna I'll be honest with you, I think that's a bad mistake.

I think you're bringing in someone who has no idea what they're stepping into.

As an interim, as a interim.

And even at and then you have to go through your process, and it I'll be sh it's shame on the candidate if they don't do their homework.

It's you know, it's not but bringing an interim is if someone who comes in and and um uh it's one of those things where be careful what you get.

Um there's there's a there's help people that'll do interims, and as a matter of fact, when I retire, I'm gonna do interims, but um they only do it for about three months.

There's a very few people that'll say, Yeah, I'll stay on for as long as you need me, because the whole idea is they're retired.

That's number one.

Number two, in this city and the issues with continuity and sustainability for leadership and staffing issues, because that's came up consistently in my last reviews with the staff that directly report to me is what's gonna happen.

We need some we need some continuity here.

We were just rolling along, really getting focused.

The I would recommend you go with an interim from inside and and do what you need to do after that, but I would not recommend going out and bringing someone into this organization because you're still turning the organization upside down.

Okay, okay, and I and my position has been quashed.

Uh I I don't have my position is not supported.

But but from what the mayor said and what you just said, I still think that's a good position.

I think we have an excellent deputy city manager and two is two excellent assistant city managers, and and and because they know they know you know where the bodies are buried now.

We don't have to train anybody and tell them where the what is CHOS stand for.

I'll I get that.

I uh okay, thank you.

Thank you, Mayor.

All right.

Uh anyone else.

Representative from District 5 and then two, will you stay on for revolving three-month contract permanently?

No, I will not.

Okay, just no, I will not.

Okay.

Just so it said, I know, putting it out there.

I I I'll tell you what, I've said this all along.

I will help this organization in any way I can without staying on uh from money-wise or anything else.

If ever I can come back and be of any service, I would do that because I care about this community and I care about the work that the staff, these people, our directors, and everybody has done.

But it would not be fair for me to continue.

I really do want to do uh spend more time with my family, which I have um ignored at times, and I want to spend more time uh working and helping other cities if they so choose to have me as an interim, and I want to serve on this college university board and help develop um new ways of educating people through college that doesn't take four years.

So I have a I have a a plan ahead, so but I will at any point help this organization in any way I can and would support uh the person that was selected as interim or when you select your full-time city manager, I would always be willing to help them in any way I could.

Um so Mayor, I'll I'll be quick.

I appreciate listening to my colleagues for their thoughts and feedback.

Um I'm gonna come down where where I started.

I'm gonna agree with Council Member Holland.

I I don't want an interim, having said that I realize that's off the table.

So then the next question for me becomes internal or external.

Absolutely, it should be an internal candidate.

Um so then the the last question is do we do it now?

Do we do it later?

The process should begin as quickly as possible.

I agree with Councilmember Jester.

We're already behind.

We should have already done this immediately when our city manager informed us that she was gonna be making this transition.

Okay, does that answer all your questions for me?

Yes, sir.

Thank you.

Uh representative of district two.

Thank you.

Um yeah, let me let me let me start the the and I'll pick up right from there.

Um we we collectively should have listened to Sarah when she gave us so much advance warning.

Um I'm not exactly sure.

We're we're in the process, you know, it all uh all got viscosity, but yes, I completely occur with Councillor McGee that we should have started this months ago.

Um to give us the options so that it doesn't feel like we're having to make these rush decisions like well, I'm not sure that it's exactly rush, but we're definitely losing time.

So in the I and the idea of losing time, let me jump to the second question, and that is I think we should do uh our start our full process right away.

Um because I am worried about the time frame and the candidates, and I did go through Sarah's hire um as she mentioned.

So I I and I mentioned the speed of government unfortunately earlier.

Um so I do think um, and I I reckon uh I recognize Mayor Pratem's concerns um that you know, okay, but to Councilor Jester's point it it it is it is what it is, it's government, it's gonna happen.

Um, you know, I don't I don't know we don't know what's what it's gonna be in in May, and and it just we're we're roll with a punches, we're a good community, we'll work with each other.

Um so that said I'm I'm for option three on the city manager.

Let's get going.

Let's can we somehow magically go back in time and get going.

Um and um and then um okay, so uh option three is off the table on the interim.

Um I I'm I'm not counting heads like the mayor is, but it does sound like there's there's that there's there is uh a majority for not external.

I I shouldn't put uh is that have you been counting heads, sir?

Is that where we are?

No, I'm on the process.

Okay, we're mid-process.

So then um I I guess to give us the most options.

I'm gonna side with Mayor Pro Tem and I'm gonna go with option two.

Um I think we have time to figure that process out.

I'd like to have more discussion.

And and the reason is just to close it out, is I think we need to decide on the actual city manager process, uh, internal, external, all that, and that's gonna that's gonna impact what we do.

So uh I guess I'm for option two in that case.

Yeah.

Uh anyone else direction.

Mayor Pro Tim.

I do have one question.

So it feels like we're leaning towards, and correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Um internal interim.

Does that sound correct, Mayor?

Yes.

Okay.

Uh do we have a list already of the individuals who are interested, and has there been an opportunity for people to express interest?

We have not done any of that.

We don't we need the direction from you all on how you would like to move forward.

All right, thank you.

Okay.

Um representative.

Um, did you have me down?

Did you need for me to clarify anything?

I was clear.

Yes.

Okay.

Thank you.

Well, no, no, I don't have you down.

I need clarification on yes, there's an interim, but the the question is timing.

Oh, uh no.

Option one.

Okay.

Got it.

Um the majority is uh right away uh from an interim appointment standpoint.

And correct me if I'm wrong what you heard on uh the uh evaluation of that.

I I did you get a feel for majority support of the interim.

Now or later.

Yeah.

Uh majority from what I heard was now.

Okay, yeah.

Okay.

That's uh I agree.

And and so I I will say my part uh while moot.

Um I share the concerns of timing, and here's why.

I I'm fine with the interim now.

I'm fine with structuring it, so we're not paying uh for two city managers, and I'm also fine with that because I'm a firm believer with that anything with two heads is a monster, and so you have one head of an organization, right?

You know, I I uh every movie I've watched the so uh you you've got to have autonomy to do what you need to do, and especially if your job's on, you know, you're you're you're required to be accountable for those metrics.

So that said, I do again.

This is not the majority, but just so I have a clean record.

I I think it's better with staff's recommendation to wait the year, and here's why.

Because if you not only do you have the elections in four months, I get that, no big deal.

That happens every year, but shortly thereafter you have the budget, which you have to adopt a budget in October.

To have someone that has that, you know, depending on who that is to get their bearings to get their kind of uh their procedures, their policies in place, and then turn right back around and um handle uh two point whatever billion dollar budget, and it will certainly go up with landmark and coal and all the other things.

Uh it just is a it's a lot to take on, and so if then if you look at that that year kind of time frame, it puts you January, it's because you're you're not gonna get any work done the next three, four weeks.

I mean that's just not reality.

I mean, so you're you're probably a month and a half out before you're even productively you gotta we gotta send out notice to find a whoever's gonna handle the search if it's our internal out external search, all those things for a permanent that all those discussions have to happen.

The holidays are upon us, and so you're not getting any work done for a month anyway, and then you're three four months out from an election, you're four months away from that from having to ratify budget, just a lot.

And and so for for those reasons, uh I would think the the staff's recommendation of appoint now and a year out works, but that's not the majority of folks.

Uh so um uh that said, I just wanted to have clear work, those are my concerns.

And and and so uh anyway.

A point of order, yes.

So sorry.

Um I don't recall um the time frame being something that had a majority.

Um I think I threw out, I would say at least six months.

However, I mean my perfect world, I think would be the option one.

So I I just wanted to, I didn't hear uh a time frame.

So I just wanted to you you made that statement, but I wasn't sure that I had heard that from everyone, so I just wanted to clarify.

Sure.

So you you said you said sooner better.

To appoint an interim.

Okay, well, okay, then because I the interim was not dispute, so that's why it's so maybe I I I I misunderstood that.

Okay, so um, and then um representative from district five internal quickly was the time frame, and then uh from yes, yeah, so yes, I'm I'm tracking with you.

Um then representative from district two, it's right away interim and appoint um I I think you're saying a point and goes move or move ahead.

That's correct.

Instead of the first one, I was in the minority.

I I said two on the interim, but yeah, you're nearly there.

Yes.

So yeah, begin the the the recruitment number two, got it.

Okay.

Uh and then representative from district one uh communicated now, ready to uh start the search, right?

Yes.

Um and so that's one so that then that's that's three uh that that I have changing the one uh which sooner or better change in that.

So uh I'll come back to you, help me understand, representative from district six.

You're saying from a um recruitment options standpoint what's your direction?

Oh, sorry, no worries.

What's your direction on recruitment options?

One okay.

And then anyone else did I get it wrong, Mayor Pro Tem.

I was really vague on the on my first round of this particular slide.

Um I was more wanting to see what everyone else thought, and having listened to everybody, I'll go with option one on this particular slide.

Okay.

Would you like me to take a position?

Um it's yes.

Yes, yes, sir.

Yeah, no, it's good.

Go right ahead.

Internal now.

Okay.

Got it.

Okay.

So help me uh Mac, but I I see that as four now, five now, as far as the uh begin recruitment and or no, yeah, right.

Yeah.

Yes.

Um and then two now.

One now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

Okay.

So that being the case, so there's a majority says start recruitment now.

My question is, does that necessarily conflict with your direction on the 12 months?

Yes.

Right.

If you're gonna start a full recruitment, yes.

Right.

Because it I mean it could be confusing.

You could have the interim interested in the role and go through that process while they're also doing the role.

So that's gonna be a bit conflicting for that individual.

Sure.

I mean, you can you can do it, it's just challenging.

Right.

State your point of clarification.

Thank you.

Um when we say now, can you list who said that?

Because I am struggling.

We have a couple of moving parts, and I just want to make sure I'm clear.

Yes, and so I setting us setting aside the candidates setting aside, so yeah, it's so the question is starting from yes, we'll have our interim city manager, and then the question becomes that top portion there, option one, full recruitment recruitment after 12 months, or option two, recruit um only after city manager departs, and then three full recruitment immediately.

Uh option three, um, I heard representative from district four, Holland, um representative from district five, Beck, representative from District One, um Bird, and Representative from Five.

And and then yeah, and then um you are option one though.

Correct, yeah.

Yeah, would you review District 5, please?

One more time.

Yeah, yeah.

So I think you said that.

Yeah, I'm sorry.

Uh so you're right, four and five are the same, but there are start recruitment now.

So four, five, um, two, and one are the four.

Okay.

Four, five, two, one.

And that checks out for everybody.

Okay, I just wanted to make sure we were the swoop flip-flapping between interim and full-time city manager was throwing me off a little bit.

That sounded correct to everybody for Mr.

Fairness.

Yeah, did that so that sounded correct?

Everybody's position felt correct for the permanent city manager process, not the not the interim.

No, I'm not sure.

I don't want to delay it.

Thank you for that clarification.

Yeah, so I I mean again, I my my my concern remains the same.

I I think that there are conflicts, but if if the majority doesn't see it the way the you know that's that's that's how it works.

So uh that said, everyone's locked into that.

No one no one no changes of hearts and minds because we're that's gonna have effects, and I need to make sure we're all good with that.

So four, five, two, one said option three.

See no sudden movements, madam city manager.

So I just want to be clear.

I don't I'll be I'd be if I don't say this, you're not gonna get a recruitment starting this month.

Uh if you say start January, you'd be better off uh because you're outside of the holidays and everything.

And if you're gonna spend $75,000, which is what it's gonna cost you, you want to do a really good search, and so uh you want to have take the time to do let her do her due diligence in bringing forward two or three uh firms to interview, uh get them be present to you what how they would recruit, uh how they'd follow up with you with candidates, the whole nine yards, and then that takes for them to go through all this, it'll be a month, a month and a half.

So you're gonna you'll you'll you'll by doing that starting in January, you will a new mayor and a new council will have the opportunity to probably hire the person.

They won't be able to pick the firm, but they'll be able to hire the person.

So I just want to make sure everybody understands that not trying to pick sides or anything.

Yeah.

Um representative from district uh five, then two.

Is option three contingent upon going outside, because I didn't see it as that there's no contingency.

The assumption would be yes, you can clarify.

I mean, that's what I've heard is that it would be an external full recruitment.

Okay, I thought I said it, but let me let me clean it up a little bit.

So I am not for an outside search, I am for choosing an internal candidate, and I want to get started with putting the person in place immediately.

What does that mean?

Okay for for your for your calculation.

I do not want to search.

Yeah, no, we'll we'll see.

We'll we'll see what else.

Uh representative from district two.

Yeah, I oh microphone.

I I think you, Mr.

Mayor.

Uh yeah, I appreciate that comment.

Uh, because that's what I was my initial comments back in my opening is I I think we're we're slightly cart before a horse because there's the whole process that that's gonna govern if we do X, then we can't do Y, we have to only do these other things.

So the way we've broken it down, it I think is is creating um you know, well, maybe maybe that's the way it works, is that we are we're ending up camps, um, not in a bad way, but I I would I do want to praise this all a little bit.

We are having some of the best dialogue that we've had in a long time on this, so I thank you all.

It's it's itchy, it's scratchy, but we're having good dialogue.

Thank you.

Um so I I'm my my question to staff on on continuing option three beginning immediately is to answer, and she she stepped out of the room, but um certainly somebody else can answer the question as well, and that is um starting now.

I I completely agree that it's it's it's the worst time to start anything in government between the holidays.

But does starting now actually mean if we just follow a natural process, we're probably just going to do internal paperwork, we're gonna start things locally.

We're really not going to spend all the money and do all the things until January anyway, which would be in line with uh and again she stepped out of the room, but her recommendation is that correct?

Yeah, we would start our administrative pieces kind of behind the scenes researching firms going through that process with purchasing, um, and then we would be able to bring those those forward.

Usually we we're not gonna have any money out the door, and usually you'll pay that in in phases throughout the recruitment process, but we're still I mean Q2 of the fiscal year beginning of Q3 before we're at that point.

So, you know, given given that reality, um, if we if we were to formally wait till January, we would do that two or three weeks of of prep work.

Yeah, and it would be looking at February.

So if the if that if the general consensus, whether internal or external, I I think we should still address that question, is that, but I don't think it really we're not really pragmatically hurting us to say start now for any of those because we can do the internal cheap work now.

Now just means we're gonna start move making forward movement, right?

We're not doing any of that right now.

So that would be the I think you exactly, and I'll pass it back to the mayor with the with the request that we do maybe have some thought about internal, external, because it is gonna guide our process.

Yeah, no, uh so I let me just say this.

Uh I think it's important.

Uh no one's everyone's talked about.

I I I think everyone's contemplating it, no one said it, so I'm gonna say it again.

There's an essence, either watching this live or following up with this, two thousand employees that make this city go watching this, yeah.

And just take a moment, pause in your direction to then say I would love to work in an organization where it is a giant blind corner, and I I can't wait to see what tomorrow brings, right?

I no one wants that.

That's why to me, I my direction remains the same.

To have some consistency to say, okay, we're gonna take the next year and be diligent, and even if that's a year time frame to have a appointment, at least that tells someone that's on the because there's a number of people that are eligible for retirement that'll pull the trigger, right?

And so it's like, hey, wait a minute, we want this is the same place you've been working for the last 20, 30 years.

It's gonna be great, we're gonna do great work, we're gonna have great leadership.

Uh, but just there's there's no ship that I've seen the size of this city that's 2.5 billion dollars that makes sharp right turns.

It just doesn't happen is no matter how much you want it to, and so I just think to be deliberate is is the key.

Again, I I get one say so.

I just again want to have a clear uh message and and clear um position on this that that man uh anyone that's been through any kind of shakeup in any organization, this is this is I mean, you're I mean this this is really scary, and and and so I'm I'm concerned about the fallout.

And so uh to those that are watching or hearing uh please uh understand um uh those concerns are are heard and and understood.

So that said, um one moment.

That said, I I I do think um there's a difference in outside inside search, but that does not to me change the direction given on recruitment, right?

Those are two different things.

Uh whether you recruit uh only in that it's not a full recruitment, but it's a recruitment all the same, you you'd have to start negotiating those things.

So I get it.

It instead insert the word if you're for a pro-intern current candidate, it's shaping the argument or discussion, it's it's recruitment replace that with n negotiations, but um I I would need to hear from the majority of council, and this is because this is not individual specific.

I need to hear from the majority of council that y'all are ready to pay two city managers.

Well, because there's no if if it's an internal candidate, you don't need the searches, that's gonna happen faster.

And we're going straight to negotiation.

So I need to hear four people say I'm willing to pay two city managers' salaries to to have that conversation, otherwise it's it's delayed, right?

Uh just the nature of it, right?

So there's no sense in talking about paying two city managers, internal candidate, if there's not four people that say, I want to pay two city managers, because that you're going to I I don't I don't again phrase it however you want.

There's one head of this organization, and so we're gonna either have a new head or the same head, but either way we're gonna pay two people and one's gonna get a check.

So I I need to hear from direction on that before we go down that road, because it's just I don't want to explore things that aren't supported.

Uh Mayor Pratin.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um for the internal external discussion for the permanent candidate recruitment, I would prefer to be in close session for that discussion.

I understand that, but my my point is there's a budgetary component to that before you even get to that.

And so are you okay with the the results of that being two salaries?

I don't think I followed which one is which on that which one is the salary and which one's not.

If it's a if the correct me if I'm wrong.

No, you're accurate, because if you're gonna end up if you go through and you can take off full if you're gonna just do it internal.

So if you're doing an internal recruitment immediately, that means you're gonna go through a process that's gonna take significantly less time because there's not an RFP, you're not going through a can uh a selection for an external consultant.

Um we're gonna get there much faster.

So likely Sarah's still going to be on payroll, um, and we will make an offer to the selected candidate that comes internally.

So then in essence you will be paying two city managers.

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

Let me let me get there.

Let me let me see if we if we're going down that road.

So uh Mayor Pro Tip, that that's the direction I need.

I mean, it could be it could be later to Sarah's point.

I mean, you could do a future dated effective date for that selected candidate.

So basically you can say you're going to be it, but not yet.

Right.

That's what we have now in theory.

Okay, I'm I may just be made, maybe I'm just uh I I that that's what we have.

But okay.

So if that if that's if that's the yeah, so I'll just open it out.

I don't want to poison the pool.

So you have the floor.

You is that everything?

That's it.

It was just the opinion that to talk external external, internal for the long-term appointment, I would like to be in closed session for at least part of that.

Well, really.

So we can get into specifics, sorry, Matt.

Right.

It'd be in closed sessions just to talk about specific candidates potentially for the position.

That would have to be that level of discussion.

If you're just talking conceptually, yeah, that's an open discussion.

But if you want to talk about individual candidates and their qualification capabilities, that's a closed session.

Yes.

Okay.

So do you have a position on internal or external?

Until we have that discussion getting into specifics that we can't do in open session.

I I it's hard for me to have an opinion just yet.

Okay.

Representative district one.

So when I made my initial statement that we do interim and do it ASAP.

Number one, I think that was on the other page.

And then I made the um option three.

So but if I don't have the word full in there, then that puts me up there to option one, right?

But I'm not comfortable with waiting.

Uh I mean, I see 12 months out here, such as 12 months.

But that makes sense to go ahead and do the working interview until it's time.

So when our new interim is in there doing the working interview, when it's time for that person to become the full um city manager, that would be the appropriate time.

I did not mean for us to begin this necessarily begin this process this week or next week.

That's why I use the term as soon as possible to leave that consideration open.

So it sounds like I did a number one and a number one.

That's what I think.

That's where I am from that.

Okay.

Number one, number one.

So consensus just changed.

Okay.

You're number one.

I'm number one.

All right.

Okay.

So the consensus now, as we go around, just note the consensus now is option one city recruitment options.

That that's where we are.

So current state of the events, that's where we are.

Anyone else?

Um, option one.

I would like to reiterate.

Okay.

Internal option one.

Thank you.

I'm I'm also number one, number two to Vicki, but thank you.

So that's okay.

Representative from District Five.

Oh, um, Sans Mayor Pro Tim.

Did we wrap up the discussion on internal external?

Are we still there?

We we've not, she wants us, she wants to speak in specifics, and we're not there.

We'll have to have names.

We'd have to do that and close.

So we're not there.

Okay, so I guess my direction hinges on if we're gonna do if we're gonna do internal, I want one thing, if we're gonna do extra, I want another thing.

So does that mean I'm defaulting to Mayor Pro Tent's position?

No, okay, she's shaking her head.

Okay, so I guess I guess I'm there until we have that discussion.

I mean, I'm I'm I am obviously of the opinion that I want to select an internal candidate, but if we're not gonna select internal candidate, that means my recruitment options will be subject to change, pending what the majority of council wants to do.

Does that make sense?

It does, but can maybe I'm missing something as I as I get the input, I need your help to to help me up to my fair process.

Uh so my question is this if you appoint an interim, but they're not able to be the city manager until a date certain, then how does that how does that work?

If that's what you did, if you say that.

Because they talked about delayed a delay, like a uh a city an interim in waiting, and I don't understand that because you're not then having a working interview.

You're you're still serving under the current city manager, like I don't I don't understand that evaluate.

How do you evaluate someone when they're doing the same thing?

That wouldn't be a working interview, then that would be going through a recruitment process and then selecting a candidate with a start date, a future start date.

Right, but what I heard was someone say that you appoint someone for some future date to take the role.

Did I did I hear that right?

I heard you say I heard someone say that, right?

Yeah, yeah.

So but how does that how do you that future date do you then appoint that short of the time you would uh make a hire?

Because I I I don't understand in that scenario how you get actual experience in the position.

Well, you wouldn't.

I mean, unless you're and Sarah's gonna do it anyway.

If it's an internal candidate, she's going to do it anyway.

They're going to get the experience, they just don't have any um authority.

They haven't actually formally been appointed until that effective date that you all authorize.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah, that that's my problem with that.

So I just want to make sure I was I was processing it right.

Uh representative district four.

My point of information simply was what do you have me down as?

Got it.

Thank you for reminding me.

I was a young man then.

Yeah.

You are um your internal search now.

Okay.

Meaning Matt now meaning beginning full recruitment immediately, actions that's search firm, that's all the other things that have to happen uh on that along that road.

Okay.

But that's not internal.

Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, you're you're correct.

Internal, yeah, it would be it would be discussion negotiation now.

But internal.

Correct.

Okay, and and I like the the term, I wrote this down, future date events.

So I am not in favor of paying the salary paying the equivalent of two city managers at the same time.

I would I would suggest that we that we do this process and it become effective.

I I think it's more or less May 31st, yeah, essentially.

So if uh I I'll suspend the rules on talking to each other and ask, um so you would you would hire someone for that position, having them never have had the ability to serve in that position.

That and that's just it's an awesome terror.

I just that that to me is the value of having someone because it's different when you have a head coach and you're learning versus and and I get what you're saying, but but but what you said earlier, I I found compelling okay that not everybody wants this gig.

True, not everybody understands it.

True, and the the three DCM ACMs that we have now, I think it certainly that we we expect that they understand it.

Sure.

So I think those are I think those that's a great pool right off the bat.

Got it.

They know that they know they're gonna be here till midnight.

Got it.

Thank you very much.

I appreciate it.

All right, anyone else?

Representative of district two.

Just really briefly, um, there's there's desire to have the conversation and it's contingent on an executive session, so I'm gonna support Mayor Pro Tem on that in order to promote the discussion.

I I get it, that's names, but from a process standpoint, I I think we have to go through this process um to make sure we understand that.

So uh because who what the role is to me, just speaking for myself, it's different than who filled the role, he'll who feels the role because if you've if you've tracked along, here here's I I anticipate we'll go on a close right, you know, but but um here here's here's what we're gonna hear in my last interview in my last review.

I told you exactly the hierarchy of things.

Like we've we've we've had this conversation.

That's the thing that's crazy to me.

Is it she was explicit in saying exactly her read of the tea leaves when she told us, and we're gonna hear the exact same thing again, and then I I don't understand it.

I truly don't, but we're we're we're to to have this conversation.

Uh so you won't I won't be able to say I won't be able to say I was right, but we'll off we go.

Uh so it's it's just it's just challenging.

Uh just to be clear, we're on two a option one is the consensus, right?

Yeah, obviously, I mean they want to talk about the individual, and I don't understand it, but I want to get it out of the way so we can be done.

So it's just a process to get back to where we we are now.

So thank you.

Um so we'll set the room.

Uh the city council will now at uh 426 p.m.

convene and close meeting to deliberate closed meeting items set forth on the agenda, which include the following ID 252157, deliberate regarding personnel matters under Texas Government Code Section 551.074.

The agenda item is related to work session item ID 252158 and will be a post.

Oh, never mind.

So yeah, so we'll set the room and then we'll uh with no breaks, we're we're we're diving right in.

It won't be long.

City council has now at 511 p.m.

reconvened from the closed session, and no official action was taken.

So 51.

Okay.

So let's let's uh if we could level set, if you could go back to one slide, yes.

So if we can get direction starting here and going to the next slide, just to have a clean slate so that we have direction.

So uh direction from interim city manager options.

I I know we've talked about an interim, uh, but the the question before the body is the now or all those options, you know, and then the next the next page, right?

So so let's take this just so I can have clean notes and an understanding we had and staff has clear direction.

So floors open from uh interim city manager option standpoint.

I'll just say I am for um option one is is my position and uh others just the and just this question so that I can well you know parse it out.

So uh representative from district six option one, okay.

Uh anyone else, representative district four?

Option one, okay.

Um and then Mayor Pro Tem.

Option one.

Okay.

And then representative from District Two.

Based on the conversations you've had, I'll go with option one as well.

Okay.

One.

Okay.

One.

Good.

Thank you.

Okay.

And then so if we can go to the next slide.

And so this is what's before us, and so it's um on this second question for me.

Um I I'm gonna go with a version of option one, and so it's uh I wanna I want to ask you to reach out to a recruit recruiting firm and have us have them consult with us on uh options, uh applications, you know, just to educate us on the uh a talent pool that we would likely draw, and then including in that would be interviewing the interim, and then we'd have a a closed session discussion.

Okay, uh direction.

Mayor Tim.

I support that option.

Okay, uh District One option one.

Okay, uh Councilman Jesser.

Uh option one representative from district five.

One okay.

Um representative Harlan.

One.

Thank you.

Uh and um representative from district two.

J just just minor clarification.

Is option one different than what you were saying, Mr.

Mayor, or we're all agreeing that it's what you said is option one.

My understanding is it's option one as written there when they said option one, and and people can correct me where I'm wrong, but that's my understanding.

They didn't they didn't say other than Mayor Pro Tem uh did not give a distinction, so I'm saying I I I read it say what's written there.

That uh I'm just for clarity.

I'm gonna side and say what the mayor said.

Okay, and agree with Mayor Pro Tem.

Got it.

Mayor.

Yes, sir.

And I'm going to agree with the with it with the description that you laid out.

Okay.

Got it.

We all agree with that.

No, I thought when you said one, I'm thinking one is written there versus the variable.

We've got three for one or four for the other.

Either either way, there's four.

There's four.

Yeah, yeah.

So the the varying variable vet.

Got it.

Okay.

Um and what else do you need?

That's it.

Yes.

I'll put a good vote.

Okay.

You say that.

Okay.

Um, so anything, anything.

So that that concludes our work session.

Anything else on this topic that that we need.

Okay.

I'm just uh doesn't matter to me because I'm not really part of the discussion, but so you're gonna do one.

You're gonna go ahead and point somebody.

Correct.

And then you're gonna let them work.

Oh, I'm so I'm thinking we're still in.

So and then you're gonna let them work for a period of time, but you're gonna have discussions with a recruiter to see here's the process, here's how we handle it, come back and tell the council to consult.

Correct.

Yeah, we're we're gonna we're gonna understand the the environment, understand that that person having an opportunity in the in the hot seat, and and so they'll talk to all those things, come back, report to us, and we'll make a decision.

Okay.

Uh, next steps.

So if you could help us get those things.

Sure, we'll we'll bring you more than one so that you all can select though, unless you have somebody that you've decided on that you want to speak with specifically.

Yeah, no.

I have an uncle that's in the business demar.

Uh I'm out of that one.

No, no, okay, great.

Uh then that concludes our work session at 516.

We'll reconvene in council chambers at 6.30, and lunch is here, or dinner is here at lunch.

Um, so there you go.

Good evening, welcome to this meeting of the Denton City Council.

It is now 6 31 uh, and we're reconvening first thing on our agenda or pledges to the United States Texas flag.

Please stand with me if you're allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the republic for which it stands on mission under the indivisible liberty and justice rolls on the Texas flag.

I'll collect the regions to the Texas, one state, under God, one individual.

Thank you.

Okay.

That takes us to our speakers.

If we could play the video for addressing council, please.

The Denton City Council has adopted rules of procedure, including a code of conduct that applies to the public as well as council members.

These rules were enacted to promote an orderly process and to preserve decorum.

Speakers will have four minutes to give a scheduled report and four minutes to give an open mic report.

A bell will ring when time has expired.

If the remarks are not concluded by that time, the speaker will be asked to stop speaking.

If the speaker does not cease and a second request is made, the mayor may request to have the speaker removed from the chamber.

Speakers should not approach the dais.

If a speaker has materials for the council, please notify the city secretary in advance.

For scheduled reports, the council may initiate discussion or ask questions.

For non-scheduled open mic reports, the council may listen.

However, because no notice of the subject of the open mic report has been provided to the public in advance.

The Texas Open Meetings Act prohibits discussion or decision by the council on non-scheduled items.

As a result, the council may only proceed as follows on non-scheduled items.

Propose to place the item on a future agenda.

Make a statement of factual policy or a recitation of existing policy.

Speakers are asked to direct all remarks and questions to the council as a whole, and not to any individual member.

Please refrain from making abusive, personal, impertinent, profane, or slanderous remarks.

Anyone who violates the council rules of procedure may be immediately removed from the chamber.

Thank you in advance.

Copies of the rules of procedure are available from the city secretary.

Great.

First speaker is Sherry Reese.

Sherry Reese.

Yep.

If you can come down and give your name, you'll have four minutes.

Okay, great.

How long can we shock that this many people are interested in reducing our speed limit?

So I think it's great.

So I'm here as a um neighbor and owner of a home in East Oaks.

And we were so surprised when we came out a couple weeks ago and noticed that our there are now speed limit signs that say 30 miles per hour.

And so I understand that's a state law.

But I also understand there's ways that maybe we can reduce this.

So it's a very small neighborhood.

The streets are like a quarter of a mile long each street.

And so when you do 30 now, that is very fast, rapid.

And being 20 and living there for or owning the home for 20 years, we all thought it was 20.

So we were shocked when we noticed that it's now 30, and people are actually in our estimation speeding.

So we're like, well, hold on, this is not right.

There's young kids and everything that's uh playing in there.

So we're here tonight to discuss on how we can get the um speed limit signs reduced.

So we have our safety issues, and every neighborhood has these children at play, and our neighborhood is mixed.

And it used to be um, well, it never used to be, but anyway, there's a lot of retired people, and then now we've got younger people moving in with kids, and so our yards are not that large, so the kids are playing in the street.

So when you've got cars coming down 30 miles per hour, cars parked both sides of the street, that's a dangerous scenario.

And so I found in the um it's called the national uh academies press, and they did a report on the effects of um speed, and so the one thing that I thought was very interesting that if you have an accident and going 20 to 25, there are very uh less severe results for the person who's been hit by the car.

So if you go from 20 miles per hour, it's 46% chance of having just a moderate injury, and then it goes up to 18% of having a serious injury, and this is at 20 miles an hour from 30 to 33, it's 50 percent chance of a serious injury.

There's nothing in there about having any moderate injury.

So, in our estimation, it's like wow, you know, going just that much for these young kids and dog walkers and older people, we're all out walking around.

So, what we did was we drove around Denton and we took some shots of streets that are also marked at 30 miles per hour.

So, Forest Ridge, excuse me, is a large, larger neighborhood, but they have divided highway with a median and an entire bike lane where a car is parked in it, and that's marked at 30 miles per hour.

Wind River is three lanes with a two full lanes and a center lane for tourney, also 30 miles per hour.

Our streets are in the center, Oak Valley at Paisley, and this is where the cars park along this is taken in the afternoon, so people were at work, but in the evening, the cars are parked along the street, both sides, and you literally have to stop before turning in there because you have to make sure there's nobody coming on at you.

And then Oak Valley, again, another shot, and there's a uh calming device where it comes out, that's their mailboxes are set up there, and then Timber Trail is in East Oaks, and that's a total picture of our streets.

So again, we went out and we measured the streets, and they are 24 feet across, but an average car is like six foot.

So if you have two cars parked, that's 12 feet, so you got 12 feet for two cars, so you've got very little room for passing, so it's dangerous.

And then Hobson Lane is a two-lane road, and that is um the reason we took that picture.

I'm trying to remember, we took that picture because there's like no stop sign, so it's a full thoroughfare.

So going 30 miles per hour down there, most people are actually traveling 30 to 40 because I go to church there, and so we watch them zoom by.

And on Colorado Boulevard, that's a um median uh four lanes.

Mockingbird is the closest street that's in our neighborhood, and that is two lanes with two major bike paths on each side, and again, that's 30 miles per hour.

So the whole point of all these is that 30 miles per hour can be looked at several different ways.

So for us, it's a very rapid for some of these streets.

It's it's the right thing, it should be 30 miles per hour.

Okay, and that's the time.

We do have a question, representative from district two.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Um, Miss Reese, have you had a chance to talk to transportation services?

You know, I left a call with them, and nobody ever called me back.

Uh Ms.

Deputy City Manager, could we get transportation services to talk with Ms.

Reese?

Uh I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Okay, yeah, someone will bring you a business card and we'll follow up with you on that.

I I do want I do want to better understand those so that they can have that conversation.

It sounds like you're saying the two cars parked on the side of the road slows people down, but then you want to have a speed limit change to the lower the speed limit to 20.

Right.

Right.

Well, you have to slow down.

Are you slowing down, but you're not breaking the law by not slowing down.

And how are you going to enforce it?

So if I'm doing 30, I'm not breaking the law.

Right.

But it's dangerous.

Right.

So I'll just tell you that's so from an engineering standpoint, just stop learn.

That the narrowing of the streets is because people ignore speed limits, they shouldn't, shame on them.

But but that so that you have to create an environment where it forces them to slow down.

I'm just telling you that from my experience, and and so staff will do a better job uh giving you the data for that and and working through that with you.

But I did want to set the set the uh expectations we can't control drivers' habits, but we can create an environment that changes drivers' habits, and that's what we try to do to make sure we we keep folks safe.

But but we'll we'll certainly have staff, the engineers work with you and and and make sure we follow up and have those conversations uh to see what else we can do to help.

Okay, so there is a protocol to continue this discussion.

I'm gonna do that.

Yes, if someone's gonna the staff will sample, but man, is is this really fast?

I mean, really fast.

Okay, Mayor Portia.

Can you clarify exactly where the speed limit signs were not and now are what street was it?

That's on all the streets in our neighborhood.

Oh, all the streets near Mockingbird Paisley in the East Oak Camper.

Okay, and Oak Traak Valley and Oak Trail.

Okay, thank you.

Yeah, and a lot of more too, as you're coming in.

Uh councilman from district, oh, you're you're good.

My question was much the same.

It says here East Oak Street.

Is that is that what you were concerned about?

No, that's the name of our neighborhood is East Oaks.

East Oaks.

Yes, is our neighborhood?

That's the error.

It's my my agenda says oak, singular.

Oh that's my confusion.

Thank you.

All right, okay.

Thank you very much.

So they'll bring you a business card.

Okay, you're very well.

Yeah, he's right, he's right there.

Great.

Second speaker is uh Tracy Duckworth.

Tracy Duckworth.

Okay, yeah, no, I'm with you, just gotta do the things.

Uh then next speaker is Urban Rodriguez.

Thank you.

Yes, sir.

If you can come down and give your name, you'll have uh four minutes.

Um my name is Urban Rodriguez, and um October 29th, 2019.

I was shot in the line of duty.

Um in the head, the leg, and ran over.

And the person who shot me, it um changed my life forever.

My recovery has been a battle.

I have I had half my skull removed, four brain surgeries that could have killed me.

I have I had a shattered leg that was fixed with a metal rod and a permanent shunt to my brain.

The pain was at times unbearable.

And or but I survived and I'm still here.

After coming home, um I tried to um do um multiple therapies, and most of most focused on teaching me how to live with my injury instead of overcoming them traditional therapy taught me how to live or how to work around my disability, but not how to actually recover from what I lost.

Then I found React.

It's a neuro gem that works with brain injuries and multiple um other um injuries.

React is a it react is different, unlike traditional therapy, neurogyms focus on focus on the brain's ability to rewire itself and form new connections after the injury at React.

I'm not just managing my disability, but actively retraining my nervous system through hard work and exercise designed for brain injury recoveries.

React didn't just change my life, change my therapy.

I'm sorry, but the approach changed my life since I've been shot for the first time I found professionals that believed I would get better, not just manage my disability.

You can finish your statement.

It and I have gotten better through hard work at React.

I've regained my mobility to um walk and do daily activities that once seemed impossible.

I continue to make real progress and directly affect my ability to be there for my children, who are the reason I'm fighting for every single day.

I have a little bit more.

Yes, sir.

Follow me.

Okay, thank you so much.

I'm here today because my workmen's comp coverage for this therapy has been stopped due to problems with logistics.

I understand the money situations or concerns, and I want the council to know I am asking for help to stay where I'm at.

I'm uh I am asking for asking for support to keep improving without continued therapy for my brain injury, and my body will break down and much faster than normal.

This therapy has um this therapy isn't possible, or isn't um optional this it's what allows me to be a father to my children deserving my children deserve and to live with dignity and purpose, I'm or I've lost a great deal over the last six years, and I've I or I haven't lost the will to fight.

I'm or I've lost a great deal.

Over the last six years.

And I've I or I haven't lost the will to fight.

I may never be a dead.

I was once.

Um dead.

I was before.

And still fighting to survive and truly make a life.

I'm asking this council to help me to continue to fight and support my access to my care at React.

Thank you.

And again, I am Urban Rodriguez.

Yes, sir.

Well, thank you very much.

I appreciate your service.

So, um, so staff will get with you.

Uh we've been talking about it, making sure we we need we need your help on some stuff, and we we've all battled insurance companies uh and all the things, but uh help us out and we'll we'll make sure we can get you uh what we need, and so staff will follow up with you.

Thank you very much.

Uh next speaker, Laura Cote.

Close.

Yep.

If you can come down and give your name, you have four minutes.

Thanks, sir.

Thank you.

My name is Laura Coate.

Hello, council members.

My name is Laura Code and I live in District Three.

I'm a UNT alumna and I have been in town for six years, and I have lived in Houston my whole life before.

Today I will speak to you about Senate Bill Eight going into effect in the state of Texas in January.

As I hope you are aware, this bill forces county sheriff's offices into two eighty-seven G a deputization agreements with ICE.

I am here today to beg that this countywide agreement be the absolute extent of the City of Denton's collaboration with ICE, and that you all take action to prevent Denton Police Department from entering into its own version of the two eighty-seven G agreement, which would invite violence into our community and create widespread fear.

I work at a school.

Good and evil can only be determined by how you treat others.

And I didn't tell her this because I can't, even though I know it to be true.

As ICE kidnaps innocent people in the streets, brutalizes them, defies laws, defies court orders, fabricates warrants, profiles people based on race, and forces them into camps with poor conditions for multiple months.

It can be determined that the hope Department of Homeland Security, everyone in it, and everyone who is complicit in their operations is evil.

And so are the people manufacturing consent to invade the sovereign country of Venezuela where my student has just returned to.

As Venezuelan airspace has been closed and 11 US warships and 15,000 troops approach Venezuela and the Caribbean, I am praying for the safety of my student and all of the people of Venezuela.

warships and 15,000 troops approach Venezuela and the Caribbean, I am praying for the safety of my student and all of the people of Venezuela.

But the suffering of many Venezuelan people starts right here in the United States, where the temporary protected status of hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans was revoked early and without warning through executive order, leaving them subject to deportation long before their protected status was scheduled to end.

Can you see the pattern?

We are unfairly and violently kicking Venezuelans out of our country to go back to a place we are threatening with war.

And ICE are the facilitators and perpetrators of this violent process and should therefore not be allowed in our city.

As public servants, each of you have a voice and power to speak out against ICE's abductions and immoral actions.

Your voice means more than mine and can reach farther.

So your silence is complicity.

I can state now if you allow Denton police department to establish a 287G agreement with ICE, you should not be re-elected.

Just remember that every parent abducted by ICE is another innocent child's life disturbed, and to allow this is unforgivable.

Be on the right side of history and use your power to prevent further collaboration of the city of Denton with ICE.

Stand up for what is right and say no to any and all future 287G agreements.

Thank you.

Next speaker's chance Harrington.

You can come down and give your name.

You have four minutes.

Denton is already required by Senate Bill Eight.

I have lived in the city for the last 15 years, and even before that, I grew up around it.

My dad worked at UNT my whole life, and through him, I saw that Denton was a city where people believe in their dreams.

It was a town full of art, full of music, full of laughter and life.

It's a place where the needs of businesses, families, and very different communities could all be treated with equal respect.

After I moved here permanently from my own education, I got to see firsthand how Denton City Council would try to do the right thing.

And then less than a year later, the Texas state government made that ban unenforceable with their House Bill 40.

I remember a similar pride when 70% of voters passed local marijuana decriminalization in 2022.

In a similar disappointment when City Manager Hensley said she could not advise our city police to enforce our Denton laws over conflicting states.

Tell me one second, we're gonna pause your time.

Is there a poem that has a wife that's downstairs waiting?

Yeah, they need you outside, please, sir.

Thank you.

Sorry, go right ahead.

And here we are now at the end of 2025.

Texas Senate Bill 8 looms large.

As of January 20, January 1st, 2026, this law will require all Texas County Sheriff Departments to collaborate with ICE at the highest levels possible, regardless of the will of the people.

This law will include the Denton County Sheriff's Office, and my impression of the current Denton County Sheriff is that he was more than happy to do the bidding of ICE, which is currently the most bloated, overfunded, rotten federal agency in the entire United States.

ICE is not here to protect the citizens of Denton.

They are not here to enforce the law.

They are definitely not here to assist in the complex and difficult realities of a limit illegal immigration here in North Texas.

We have seen the way ICE operates.

There is no moral way to do what ICE wants to do at the scale they want to do it.

We know that they do not obey the Constitution.

They do not care about the rights guaranteed to every human being living in this land.

It is a tragedy and a farce that the Texas state government is trying to score political points with a minority of tired and fearful voters by allowing this corrupt federal agency to mandate cooperation from our local authorities.

Denton City Council, I know that you cannot stop SBA from forcing the Denton County government's collaboration with ICE, but you can minimize their threat.

And you can make Denton an unfavorable target of ICE.

You can advise your city manager to instruct the Denton City Police Department that there will be no cooperation with ICE or its proxies.

That is within your power.

You can stand up for your constituents and make sure our democratic will is observed by our representatives and stop this government overreach from making the lives of our neighbors a living hell.

Do not let the Denton City police get roped into this unconstitutional and inhumane scheme from politicians who do not care about us.

We do not want ICE in Denton.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next speaker's uh Chris Watts.

If you can come down and give your name, you'll have four minutes.

Oh, is my time already started?

Okay, well, my name is Chris Watts.

Um I'm going to talk about this the data that the study presented that staff presented to the council regarding the money that we've spent and the affordable housing that we have not obtained in the last four years.

After my election in 2022, I put forth a proposal for a public finance corporation, which would help alleviate some of the problems that this study that was presented about a week or two ago would help resolve, and that is we were spending hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, millions in an aggregate a year to really not achieve the goals that that money was spent for in helping people obtain affordable housing, primarily those in the very low and extremely low income level.

At the time, Councilmember McGee and Councilmember Beck voted against this proposal on four occasions, denying the city a voice to be able to negotiate hundreds of thousands of dollars to make sure that we're benefiting the citizens of Denton.

It was a failure of the most important public policy that we have in this community.

Affordability, and also more importantly, financially good stewardship.

We were spending thousands of dollars, hundreds of thousands of dollars, and not getting anything in return.

Councilmember Beck gave an interview last week about affordability, where he described the data that was prescribed that was described in the staff study.

And at the end of it, he said, now we are in a crisis mode.

We have to put all our tools into the tool basket.

I put a tool in the basket back in 2022, and it was pulled out and rejected.

And so I'm gonna give you another tool to help us manage our financial resources and make an impact as much as we can using that money.

You've got to put a moratorium on affordable housing projects that are going to be receiving property tax exemption unless you get enforceable guarantees of affordability.

Without that, we're wasting money.

Now the problem is the study that was presented, the data that was presented, we talk about percentages, we talk about units that aren't there.

Those represent families.

Families who struggle on a daily basis to put a roof over their heads.

They're working two and three jobs in order to do that.

What happened was we failed them.

These aren't numbers on a slide.

These are people in our community.

If we're going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars, I want you to hear this.

I want the community to hear this.

The aggregate is up to about three million a year that we are spending on affordable housing projects where we're getting virtually nothing in return, and that could have been resolved just four years ago.

The problem becomes when some people put politics over people.

People.

But we could have made a difference, and it wasn't voted on four times.

That's not good financial stewardship, and it's certainly not helping the people in this community that need the help.

And I've worked on that for four years.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you.

Next speaker is Nathan Goldsmith.

And uh Nathan, he has a handheld mic for you.

Thank you.

You sure?

Yes, sir.

I should be okay.

Thank you.

Okay.

Thank you, Steve.

All right.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um I think I saw one of the UNT student government association presidents, uh, former in here a while ago.

But anyway, um what a busy night.

Uh Mr.

Rodriguez was uh injured six years ago, and uh that was a pretty traumatic time, I think, for our city, and to uh see that he's struggling with those um complications of getting the therapy needed is just astonishing in a sense that um it shouldn't be an acceptable uh thing for our service members uh to have to go through when injured with that.

I'm in here to talk specifically tonight about the uh something that I'm not really prepared for, and I do apologize, but thank you for your time.

Looks like you are gonna have a busy night.

The uh failures in the building safety services here in Denton have uh been a little overwhelming.

Uh a few weeks uh back I was in here speaking of a contractor that uh probably needs to be brought up on criminal charges, not just dealing with uh civil suits.

Uh those civil suits have cost us uh over 18 grand, and uh it's it's not healthy when you're trying to recover from a disaster that's happened to your home after a declared national disaster.

With that being said, the failures that were happened within the building services um division uh were one a an inspection that happened, and the disregard to our home by the two inspectors that came out and in their report failed to mention a multitude of issues that were were wrong with our home.

My hands are kind of tied right now because we're in a settlement of this lawsuit.

Um so um that's a little hard for me because our home is probably gonna be around 50,000 to correct from the damages that have been done by this contractor that was illegally working in this city for 13 years, but in the report they failed to notice some things.

Uh Susie and um uh mayor, both of y'all have a photo, a video of an electrical socket uh fixture that was tampered with, messed with, replaced, uh, and they didn't even notate that.

And uh when speaking with I believe it's Elizabeth over the building services, uh they said, Well, he's in full compliance now.

Well, how how is this individual in full compliance when there's clearly all of these things that are wrong?

And well, he gave his $60 and he filled off the form, not taking into account that um not only was he acting as a general contractor, which he's now compliant with, but also that he was acting as an electrical and a plumbing.

But her idea of being fully compliant now is that well, he he did his contractor, but he hasn't done his electrical and he hasn't done his plumbing, has he?

So uh there's a disregard there of safety, right?

And inside of the report that they gave, it it kind of not in the report, but in the meeting that I had with her and I think it's Chandler.

Um I asked, are we leaning to a business that has been wrongfully doing business as a contractor or an electrical and plumbing person in the city for 13 years?

Are we totally evading what's health and safety of our building structure looks like after that?

Anyway, I thank you for your time.

Okay, thank thank you very much.

Somebody's glasses are up here.

I don't know if that's for ADA compliance.

Okay, got it.

That's awesome.

Okay, that's gonna take us to consent agenda.

If there's anyone that wants to transition before we get into that, the main meet of our uh if you spoke and wanted to slip out, I'll give you a moment to do that before we go into the next part of our agenda.

And while that's happening, I'll take a motion uh for the consent agenda as as presented.

Mayor Pro Tem.

I'll motion to approve the consent agenda.

Representative from District 4.

Second that we have a motion and a second.

Any other discussion?

Seeing none, let's vote on the screen.

Passes seven to zero.

And that takes us to our first public hearing, I do believe.

Yes.

Okay.

Okay.

I'll take a look at those.

All right.

So we have one presentation for A, B, and C.

And so I'm gonna call those together.

We'll take comments together.

They're all related to the same item.

Uh and so I'll call those and open the public hearing.

And that is for ACA 250001A.

Hold a public hearing and consider adoption of an ordinance of the city of Denton, Texas regarding a comprehensive plan amendment from agriculture future land use designation to the master plan community future land use designation on approximately 2,499.35 acres general of generally located west of South FM 2153, east of FM 2164, and north of Gribble Springs Road and Shepherd Road in the city of Denton, Denton County, Texas, adopting an amendment to the city city's official future land use map.

And then item B MPA 25003 hold a public hearing, consider adoption of an ordinance of the city of Denton, Texas regarding the comprehensive plan amendment to the modify the thoroughfare map of the 2022 mobility plan, including but not limited to the modification to the roadway alignment of the future east-west connection in Craver Ranch.

The general location of the target road is located south and west of FM 2153, east of FM 2164, north of Shepard Road in the city of Denton, Denton County, Texas.

And then lastly, item C, which is PD 25003A, hold a public hearing and consider adoption of ordinance of the city of Denton, Texas regarding a change in zoning district and use classification from rural residential district to plan development district with base zoning of residential four district residential seven district mixed use district mixed use regional district public facilities district on approximately 2499.35 acres of land generally located west of southwest and south of FM 2153 East and of uh fifth 2164 north of Gribble Springs and Shepherd Road in the city of Denton, Denton County, Texas.

And I'll open a public hearing.

Thank you, Mayor.

Uh members of the council.

Mia Hines, senior planner here to present uh the three Craver items that you just read into the hearing.

Um this is three separate requ requests as an overview of this project.

This is three separate separate requests, a comprehensive plan amendment, a mobility plan thoroughfare map amendment, and a rezoning to a plan development.

Uh the property itself is just under 2500 acres.

The existing future land use designation for this property is rural area.

The proposed future land use designation is master plan community.

The existing zoning is rural residential.

The proposed zoning is a plan development with R4, R7, MN and MR based zonings.

And then there's a couple of uh things at the front of this presentation here that I have included to give you uh uh an idea of of staff sort of uh or planning staff sort of frame of mind um in in looking at this property from a more regional standpoint.

Um things on a couple of things I want you to keep in mind as we go through this presentation is that this is 2500 acres um under one ownership within the city of Denton, so that provides some unique opportunities for us to uh uh present a creative uh development here.

Um additionally, this area is part of the Craver Ranch Municipal Management District approved by the state legislation.

Um and then finally the text dot uh Denton County Regional Outer Loop is planned uh within proximity of this uh subject property, and so that those are uh a couple of things that we want to take into account when considering this case.

A brief history of the property.

Um, the existing land use is and has been for a while, agriculture, um, but in 2008, the city took uh uh uh it up on itself to annex the property unvoluntarily.

Um, and uh with the anticipation of that development would be coming and that uh the property owners were interested in potentially developing this property in the future.

And then similarly, the minor update of the Denton 2040 comprehensive plan also did not look further into this property beyond an agricultural future land use, even though again back then we knew that there were potentially development interests for this property.

When the applicants approached the city staff, we had some pre-application discussions, basically walking them through what would be required for this development to potentially occur and then working out some of the kinks and things before we present them to you guys.

As a part of that, there are some comprehensive studies that we've had them doing, given that this is such a large project, and that includes some water, sewer, and traffic studies.

You all were the ones that gave the consent to help that creation begin.

But just to remind you, a municipal management district is a special purpose district with the power to levy taxes, issue bonds and charge assessments to property owners for infrastructure costs within the MMD.

This petition was created and approved by you all in March of earlier this year, and then of course it was created by the 89th legislation.

So one of the other points that I uh wanted to keep in mind again is that the text.dent County Regional Outer Loop is proposed adjacent to the subject property in this area.

This exhibit is a slide showing that portion of the planned outer loop and then the potential alternatives within the Denton County area.

As you can see, the subject property is here highlighted in red.

What we're seeing with respect to the construction of the regional outer loop and how it's sort of uh how it's progressed within the uh Collin County area is that uh in around this outer loop, you were seeing a lot of the master plan types of communities that we're seeing uh Craver propose this evening.

Um Salina, for example, has a lot of master plan communities around their outer loop of to the east.

And then this is an excerpt from the Albury Planning Department showing their mobility plan where they've established their sort of proposed or their preferred alignment.

Um and similarly, you can see subdivisions under development uh currently developing around the outer loop.

So the trend of development uh occurring and wanting to occur around the either planned or proposed outer loop, um, in this case the completed portion of the or uh in the case of Collin County, the completed portions of the outer loop.

Um we'll seeing that this is sort of the trend that is that is occurring along that that region.

The subject property itself, I wanted to show you guys a couple of the existing conditions, including um that uh that rural residential zoning that's on the property.

Um the floodplain, as you can see, uh does uh uh transact the property a little bit here to the east or along the east side and then along the western boundary of the subject property.

Um and there is floodplain related ESA around those identified floodplain areas, which the PD, as we will get into, um, considers those areas.

So that first application is that comprehensive plan amendment.

Again, the existing future land use designation in this area is agriculture, and what the applicant is proposing is to change that to master plan community.

The master plan community future land use designation is a category that denotes large-scale developments that are guided by separate development approvals, which establish the land use uh densities and intensities of development and character.

Um these developments typically provide for mixed uses that balance residential and non-residential uses and provide connectivity to other developments throughout the city.

In this case, again, we're looking at a large 2500-acre parcel that uh has is provided for an opportunity to master plan and thoroughly plan out what is to occur on that property.

So when we got this request from the applicant, we put it up against our criteria for approval.

Um, and ultimately we found that this uh request is considering those regional planning and development trends that I noted uh with regard to the outer loop of uh Text Outs Outer Loop in this area, and so uh it does sort of speak to a need to plan for the development of this area beyond that agricultural future land use.

Additionally, um the proposed comprehensive plan uh amendment does consider the existing and proposed infrastructure in the area, uh being that we have proposed some of the uh master plans for our like water uh services provisions and things of that nature.

We've considered that this property would develop.

Uh we were aware that the property would uh there was some interest in developing this property, um, and so this is sort of allowing uh uh a comprehensive plan future land use designation that allows us to establish a master plan community for this area.

Um and then finally the master plan community future land use designation itself encourages the development of a mix of land uses in a way that includes the provision of additional public services and facilities, which with the PD that is following this, you will see that that is a part of their proposal.

With that, staff is recommending approval of the comprehensive plan amendment.

Um, and on the in at the November 19, 2025 meeting, the planning and zoning commission recommended approval as well.

The next request is the mobility plan amendment.

Um to the left is the existing thoroughfare plan, uh, and to the right is the proposed thoroughfare plan.

Uh the green area is showing the proposed change to the alignment.

Um the reason behind the proposed change, as you can see, is the property is encumbered by floodplain and ESA related floodplain.

So what we have on our current mobility plan shows an east-west primary arterial, I'm sorry, secondary arterial, um connecting uh FM 2164 to FM 2153, um, right through one of the widest parts of the floodplain on this property.

So, with this, what they're requesting is to slightly uh realign a portion of that east-west connection to the south so that it does not have to encroach uh upon this uh the the floodplain and that ESA related to the floodplain.

Um the MP the mobility plan does allow for some flexibility within a thousand feet of a thoroughfare.

In this case, this is coming before this body because that's the adjustment is beyond the thousand uh foot designation.

Um again with this, we put it up against the criteria for approval and noted that um mainly with this one, it considers the floodplain and ESA and minimizing the disturbance of those areas.

It's also minimizing the long-term maintenance costs for the city, being one less bridge, of course, that we'd have to maintain in the future.

With that, staff is recommending approval of the mobility plan, and the planning and zoning commission likewise recommended the approval on November 19th.

The last piece of this request is the plan development rezoning.

Again, that existing zoning for this property is rural residential.

The proposed zoning is a plan development with uh residential and mixed use-based zoning districts.

Um, the uh one thing to keep in mind is that the property and the plan development is uh proposed to be developed uh within 26 phases of at approximately 20 years, and the proposed uses that they intend to include are residential, commercial, parks, and open space, community facilities, public facilities, and infrastructure.

They are proposing uh uh just uh over or about 1.2 million square feet of commercial space as far as residential dwellings, they will have a mix of single-family residences, zero lot line and townhomes, and multi-family.

Within the PD, during our previous discussions or work sessions with uh planning and zoning commission in this body, uh, we realize are uh received feedback regarding the multifamily units in this area, uh and the applicants has uh uh included in the PD for to allow for flexibility within this area that uh those 1,015 multifamily units is more of a max, and they can those units can be redistributed and counted as zero lot line or town home units.

Um the caveat, of course, to all this is that within the PD, the max number that is established cannot be exceeded.

So, whatever residences or included in the PD, that is the max number of residential units they would be allowed to construct within this development.

As far as landscaping and screening, uh they are proposing to require a six-foot tall solid masonry wall uh for lots backing or siding onto arterials to provide some screenery or some screening.

Um, and um they are proposing to uh ultimately prohibit residential fence or fences in the front yard to allow for more open space in that streetscape.

Um, in this instance, they are also proposing uh slightly different street sections, which includes um uh requires a 10-foot side path on both sides of a collector with the ability to meander those as needed.

Um as far as the right-of-way width, lane miles and targeted speed, they are being consistent with what we have in our Denton Mobility Plan.

For community facilities, uh, with this PD, they are proposing uh approximately 360 total acres of park land, 181 of that is outside of the floodplain.

Um, approximately 13.5 miles of public trails would be constructed.

Um school site for Denton ISD and a school site for uh Sanger ISD is proposed, and then two um Denton public safety facilities are proposed as well as the uh infrastructure, water sewer, and things that would be needed to service this development.

They are also proposing to uh allow for special signs standards within this PD.

Um, ultimately, uh the purpose is to create for um a unique identifier that lets people know that they would be in the Craver Ranch area.

So similarly, we put this up against the criteria for approval.

Um, ultimately, we felt that uh this does uh help us uh or acknowledge the regional planning and development trends that I noted before with regards to the textile regional outer loop.

Um, additionally, the PD development plan does consider the floodplain and ESA that is uh uh encumbering the property, uh, minimizing the disturbance to those areas, rerouting the alignments, and of course, uh preserving those areas for green space and park space.

Um, the proposed mix of housing help does help reach the city's housing needs with regard to demand uh and housing type as we look forward in the future and it's continues to grow.

Um, and then the PD does propose development over 20 plus years, identifying uh a rational phasing plan, not wanting to um throw not all those 9,000 or so units um on the ground at once, but gradually developing the property in the area over time.

Um, and then finally the required amenities and public facilities uh are intended to support the proposed density as well as density that we might anticipate happening and occurring in the UTJ.

Um, with that, we did notice the public for all of these projects, the uh comprehensive plan amendment, the uh mobility plan amendment, and the PD.

We received several comments in opposition uh of the requests, um mostly related to the concerns about the land use, uh potential potential traffic impacts, and I'm sure we'll hear uh some of those comments this evening.

Um the applicant also held two neighborhood meetings on July in July, one in July and one in September, um, hearing similar concerns from the neighborhood.

Uh with that, staff is recommending approval of the rezoning requests contingent upon the approval of the comprehensive plan amendment and mobility plan amendment as the PD would align with those changes.

Um similarly, the planning and zoning commission recommended approval of the uh PD on the at the November 19th meeting.

Uh, just a recap.

Again, this is three separate items.

Um, the comprehensive plan is agricultural future land use to a master plan community future land use.

The mobility plan uh item is a realignment of a portion of the proposed east-west secondary arterial south of the floodplain to avoid the floodplain, and then the zoning changes from rural residential to the plan development with those base zoning districts require requiring the dedication of those community facilities and trails and things of that nature.

That concludes my presentation.

I will happily answer any questions that you have for staff at this time, and the applicant is here with the presentation as well.

Great.

Thank you very much.

Questions for staff.

Any questions for staff seeing seeing none?

Uh I do want to give you an opportunity to speak uh just real quick on your evaluation.

Uh when you when staff's evaluating things like this, is it is it pro-con or is it just we you have an ordinance?

What's what's your approach?

Correct.

Yeah, so on in each one of the recommendation slides, I tried to show the criteria for approval that staff is what it's included in our development development code, and it's um assigned to each application type.

Essentially, when staff receives an application and make two make a recommendation to the planning and zone commission uh and this body, uh, we go down that list of criteria for approval, and if it meets those criteria, we let this body know, and ultimately that's our staff recommendation is approval with that.

Okay.

The applicant, uh, if you can come up, it's um Mr.

Ms.

Knight, is that right?

Yep.

And you have uh 10 minutes.

Okay, got it.

So 20 minutes, and if you can give your name uh before you start, the time will start afterwards.

Sorry, please and thank you.

Good evening, Mayor, Council members.

My name is Alexa Knight with Dakey Law 322 Walnut Street uh in Salina, Texas.

Um, I'm here on behalf of the developer old prosper partners and the entire development team.

We have all the professionals here, so if there are questions with regard to traffic, engineering, finance, we have everybody here developer.

They will be able to answer the specific questions you may have that I may not be able to.

Uh I do want to say um that your staff has done an outstanding job on the complexity of this project and all the different applications.

Uh, the agreements also that will be before you this evening.

Um, there's been a lot of information and a lot of hard work done, and they have looked under every stone.

I will say.

Okay, so let's get started.

So this is the aerial map that shows your city.

The gold star is where the 2500 acres master plan community known as Craver Ranch Master Plan Community is located.

And it is the as Mia stated, it's the largest contiguous area owned by a single entity remaining in the city limits, and that's really important because you do have a bird in the hand with a single developer that you're able to work with and work with a plan that meets your standards.

Once it's developed, it's a $5.1 billion assessed value project, and the city's own financial analysis shows that there's a net fiscal impact of almost 107 million dollars positive.

So not a drain on the city coffers.

And if we can bring up uh staff, can somebody bring the officer up?

Because we're we're gonna we're gonna move efficiently, we're gonna be respectful, we're not gonna interrupt each other or we're gonna start uh asking people to step out.

Just that simple.

Uh we're we're gonna run it, we're gonna be do things decent in order.

So uh we'll give you that time back.

Thank you all very much for understanding.

Go ahead.

Thank you, Mayor.

Uh as I was saying, it's a well-appointed plan and menatized community with trail systems, it's heavily it's a green space community that's part of the marketing plan with public parks, open space, community centers, public schools, supporting retail, and fire and police station.

Um the proposed alignment, as we um understand that the connection at I-35 is at Mileam Road, and so this proposed outer loop is shown here.

If it was easy, anyone could do it, but it's not.

Um, there is a lot to do with regard to a master plan community, and again, um you have a bird in the hand here.

You have a proven developer, his company name, Old Prosper Partners.

He's right next door.

He's here to stay.

Um he's a proven track record.

Um, the step one was, as Mia mentioned, that you all took and passed the resolution of support for the creation of the MMD back in March of this year.

It went through the Texas legislature and the governor signed it in in this year also.

The MMD had its organizational meeting just yesterday, so that's a next step.

So then the next step for us was well, we have three applications.

We have the comp plan, we have the thoroughfare plan amendment, and we have a zoning change.

In addition to that, there are two agreements that will also be before you this evening.

One is the operating agreement, which is the nuts and bolts of how the MMD works, and that's between the district and the city.

And then part of your resolution for the MMD was that we needed to have a project agreement or a development agreement, and that's between the developer and city, and that's where the city is able to ask the developer for things that they would like to have as part of their master plan community.

So Old Prosper Partners, in addition to in addition to paying for the development team, um, they also have paid for the city's consultants, so escrowed another $600,000 in order to pay for those those studies.

So again, nothing off of the city's um coffers to pay for those.

Those additional studies that we all did were the drainage assessment and environmental assessment, both of which are approved.

Um we invited the city staff out to the project and had and toured them through the site.

The environmental staff actually came out a second time also.

Um we also held two community outreach um neighborhood meetings, um, and we have some input from those, and I'll walk through those changes that we made to our plan as a result of those meetings.

In addition, the city also requested that we run Westwood runs the city's TDM model, and that was something that was done, and that's for the traffic.

Okay, so the first application that we have before you this evening is the comp plan amendment, and this is your future land use map.

The what I want to show you on this map primarily is all of the cross-hatch area.

That's your ETJ.

This property is in the full purpose jurisdiction, it's in the city limits.

Everything surrounding it is all ETJ property.

This city was involuntarily annexed back in 2008 and nine.

Sound planning takes time, and this is something that the city has been working on over time.

Again, you went out, you annexed this property back in 2008 in 2000 and 18.

The water distribution system master plan was updated to increase the water treatment plant up here at Lake Ray Roberts in order to be uh updated by 2028, and then in 2022, the thoroughfare plan identifies three secondary arterials through the site.

Each one of those arterials carries 29,000 trips per day.

That is not rural residential living.

That's moving traffic.

So the city saw the need to have those out here.

Council supported the MMD for this master plan earlier this year.

That district allows the city to get free infrastructure because the district is the one that's paying for the roadways and the water, the wastewater, the stormwater, all of those improvements.

From a macro standpoint, we we discussed this at our work session with regard to the influx from the east and west coasts of the United States.

Businesses are it's expensive to run businesses, and consequently the homeowners and home ownership is expensive.

And so they're coming, people are migrating to the central United States.

Our governor has always said Texas is open for business.

Next year we have the Texas Stock Exchange that's it's opening up.

People are coming and people continue to come.

The DFW region has seen substantial growth northward to Collin and Denton counties.

And say what you may, some people say that Techstone is behind the curve, but you know what?

Text dot has been planning this outer regional loop since 2000.

So even they saw the growth is coming.

So the proposed plan for this 2500 acres will bring the flum into alignment with the proposed land uses for the 2500 acre.

Something came up at planning and zoning, and we thought that it would be important to actually pull some comprehensive plan, comprehensive plan quotes, and address them head on.

The growth capacity, so your comp plan discusses that the city has nearly 27,000 acres of growing room comprised of land categorized as AG or underdeveloped or underdeveloped.

This 2500 acres is part of that 27,000 acres.

The city's projected population growth through the 2040 horizon would require development of approximately 25,000 acres.

Your staff report said that that was 50% growth rate rate, but really with the 2030 plan was more accurate at a 4% growth rate.

But regardless, the 25,000 acres, it's going to be developed.

Again, this property is part of that.

So as a result of the city annexing this land 17 years ago, it became part of the existing capacity to develop.

And it was a result of that, we are requesting that the comp plan be allowed for greatest flexibility.

So then, if you look to the right of the slide, and we talk about flexibility, your comp plan talks about promoting master plan communities and PDs that are consistent with long-term vision of the preferred land preservation plan, which we are doing, and the flum, which we need to change to show the different land uses that are proposed.

Each one of these bullet points down here facilitates revision to a land use mix and design of approve of master plans.

A mix of housing types to reflect changing demographics and housing preferences.

That's what we have.

We have a master plan residential community.

Appropriate siting of schools, civic buildings, and community amenities.

We have those.

Adjacency to existing transportation infrastructure systems, the roadway network, and we continue, we will be building and improving that system also.

Conservation development where appropriate.

So managing growth on the edge, that was something else that was discussed.

And your comp plan says promote convers conservation, clustered development in rural areas with permanently protected open space as an alternative to large lot development.

So not putting large lots acres of lots out here.

And we're meeting and exceeding the city's preferred land preservation plan with this.

Okay, so the next application is our thoroughfare plan, the mobility plan amendment.

As Ms.

Hines mentioned up in the upper left-hand corner, this is your thoroughfare plan.

The uh H is the proposed secondary arterial roadways that each carries 29,000 trips per day.

The deviation, this was a concern by some of the neighbors at the PZ meeting.

They thought that it affected externally to the tract, and it is not the variation, is only there in orange.

But anyway, the piece is only there in orange, that is the only variance.

And the reason why we were asking for the variance is for this central park.

As I mentioned, this is a very green master plan community.

It's heavy on park space, and what is shown on the on this exhibit is what we're called our central park acreage.

And it's 340 acres of contiguous parkland.

And with this variance allows us to not take the roadway east-west through this pond that's shown here.

And this was picture taken when staff was out on site.

I'd also like to say that this is a proposal that we worked with the Your Parks Department on in order to understand the magnitude and the size of that parkland that's outside of the floodplain and the usability of it.

Okay, so then the third application is our zoning application.

And as was mentioned, this is rural residential going to PD, and the PD allows multiple base zoning districts.

So we have the R4R7, MN, MR, and PF on there.

So that's for our low density and moderate single family housing.

And then we have mixed use neighborhoods and mixed use regional.

What's important about the proximity of this master plan community is it's not immediately adjacent to the city core.

And if it was, the seller would be asking a lot more for the land, and then that concentrates to a lot higher of a home cost.

So this is an ability for the city council to say yes to a master plan community that has a more affordable home price point for residents to choose, and not to just say, well, you can only have you can only choose from one master plan community at a time in our city, because that also came up at planning and zoning.

We should only do one at a time.

But what you may like in a master plan or you may like in a master plan is may not be the reason why I choose to live in a master plan.

And so to have that opportunity to choose is something that we think is important.

Again, this is going to be a defined, well planned community versus smaller disjointed applications.

If this were sold off in hundred 100 acre parcels, you might be dealing with 25 different developers, and then to be able to have a cohesive community feel is almost impossible to get.

So it's a quality master plan community that will have trail systems linking each one of the phases and into all the different parks throughout.

Something that was important that I kind of glossed over in the first neighborhood meeting was the phasing of this project and the fact that at a minimum it's a 20-year build-out.

It's not something that gets plunked on the ground tomorrow, and all the infrastructure gets built and all these homes just go up.

This is our best crystal ball, and what this represents is basically 400 single-family homes a year.

So it's again not a tremendous amount of development all at once.

And it provides a variety of residential products.

It's that mix, that product mix that you all are looking for, you know, to encourage people to stay within that community and just not move on or move out of Denton.

We were able to, once once they buy a maybe a starter home here, or they maybe live in an apartment, and then they're able to progress through to larger lots.

That's what we want.

We want them to stay here.

These are the product types that you all saw during the work session, different architectural types, 50, 60s, and 70s on the lots, smaller ones, the cottage homes, and then this would be more representative of what would might be in the townhome live work perspective in the MN or the MR locations.

Okay, so this is very critical because this is part of your project agreement or your development agreement, and this is what staff has been working with the developer on as far as contribution.

And this map is a good one because it shows what they have given.

We have over 463 acres of combined green space and open space and parkland, and that's excluding the trails and the neighborhood pocket parks.

I think it's important to say that a development of this size by code is only required 67 acres of parkland.

So we're providing 5.4% more of parkland to the city.

And again, it's not parkland that the city is going to have to maintain.

The agreement has been made that the HOA or district will be maintaining that acreage.

In addition to that, civic land is another 78 acres width.

So basically 22% of this overall development has been given away.

And that's resulted in a significant loss of uh single family lots since the beginning, about 2000.

But again, this is what you're able to do when you deal with a single developer on a scale this large.

This is at Central Park.

This is the bell of the ball, if you will.

It's four as the 340 acres right in the central area.

And this is parkland that's open to everybody, not just if you live in this community, but open to all residents of Denton.

And from my perspective, I had to put this into perspective from a size, and that's equates to 256 football fields.

These might are examples of trailheads.

There's gonna be lots of trails.

At this point, we have 13 and a half committed to, and there will be more as each phase gets lauded out.

This is the open space plan showing that we have met the criteria, actually exceed the criteria, but this shows that that one half mile radius, or there's a trail or green space or some sort of park something within 10 minute walk of your house.

So the benefit of the master plan community.

It's for benefit for the city, for the neighbors, and for the developer.

This master plan community continues with the Denton's plans that they've started back in 2008.

How the neighbors who are actually in the UTJ, but they know now what who how this is going to be developed.

They know what the plan is.

It's not going to be an industrial site, it's not going to be a data center, you know.

This is a residential community, a bunch of homes with supporting commercial.

It is the largest contiguous property with a single ownership, which is a benefit to the city in all the negotiations.

It's well thought out and designed, which is what the city of Denton wants.

That's the true marketing plan.

And it's self-funded infrastructure with the MMD.

That's extremely important for the city because the MMD district is what will go to pay for all the infrastructure to support this.

Otherwise, you know, that would not necessarily be the case.

Um, with 1.2 billion in Denton tax revenue.

Additionally, the developer, in addition to the 78 acres of land that they've gifted and the um 340 acres of parkland, there's also a funding contribution.

Three million dollars, which is a sizable chunk towards the affordable housing component for the city to do as they may.

Off-site public works facility, another two million and another two and a half million for uh police and fire, so a seven and a half million dollar project.

Finally, um we know that the city looks at their they have AECOM do their financial analysis, and that looks at your net that net benefit to the city, and that is a positive of 107 million dollars.

However, we thought it was also important that you understand the bigger picture.

So we we had Dr.

Ray Perryman, who is a world-renowned economist put together a study on the impact of something like this this 2500 acres development and when it's built out, and he looks at the broader picture.

He looks at the city, he looks at the school districts, he looks at the impact on the county and the state.

And these numbers are big.

For the Denton area, the benefits at maturity include a 1.7 billion in annual gross product and 24,000 permanent jobs.

That's something that the city council should not overlook.

The Perryman group estimates that this will generate a 50.8 million dollars in temporary tax benefits, and then expected to provide significant permanent annual tax benefits at maturity, including about 39 million dollars to the city of Denton.

So with that, we are here to answer any questions for you.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you very much.

Uh questions for staff or the applicant before we go to the comments.

Any questions?

Uh seeing none first.

The first card I have is uh Lynry.

If you can come down, give your name.

You will have uh four minutes.

And again, this is a public hearing, so you can fill out a blue card if you hadn't already and hand that in to the city secretary there.

Go right ahead.

Good evening, Mayor Hudsmith and City Council members.

You already know me, I've spoken here before, Len Remzel.

I'm speaking in opposition to the rezoning of Craven Ranch.

At least table the meeting till next year so we can meet with the developer.

My property is adjacent to the planned development, and I have several grievances with the planning and development.

Firstly, planning density is not consistent with the surrounding area.

Second, how the development is going to affect the agrica uh agricultural and environmental corridors on our properties and in the area.

Thirdly, how the addition of 9,000 homes is going to overwhelm the already overburdened road uh infrastructure in the area.

We ask for equitable representation in this process.

For example, where's Textot's input in all of this?

These presentations or their seat at the planning table.

Not to mention the Outer Loop plans.

Also, we asked for no ag exemption on the developers' taxes after rezoning.

It's for the these reasons I request this vote to be tabled till the new year.

Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.

Thanks, sir.

Next speaker is um.

Is it a D?

Is uh yeah, thank you.

Sorry.

If you can give your name, you have four minutes.

Good evening.

My name is Winter Anderson, and I am the daughter of Mary Craver Denny, the sister of Brian Craver Denny and the granddaughter of Kenneth Kramer, founder of the Craver Ranch.

We understand as a family that this is probably going to happen.

I also am a 20-year landowner in the Frisco area, and I recognize the beauty of this development as Frisco 2.0.

But unfortunately, what I don't see is a George Pierpoy.

The surrounding roads, the 2153 that I live on that is directly east of the Kraver, where I ran cattle for a very long time, doesn't have the capacity.

Does 2164 have the capacity?

No.

The mobility structure within the ranch as outlined is lovely, but the surrounding area does not have the stewardship is that is required by leadership in this community.

They are in decline.

I can tell you right now that the wells that are on the craver are dry.

Ten years ago they were not, but they are dry now.

And I understand from the engineers of this beautiful project that they're going to install 2200 foot wells bigger better.

Great.

But there are, according to council, your team on your staff, going to be an overabundance of these kinds of developments on these aquifers.

And so when you have agricultural use folks like me and my neighbors who need that water for our livestock, for our hay production, for our homes, what are we to do when all of our water dissipates from these aquifers?

It is not a good approach to stewardship of that particular acreage.

Also, I do want to commend the developers for their approach on water reclamation and repurposing.

They are giving an attempt to stewardship of the water by taking the wastewater and having it cleansed and treated and brought back through a pressure pump to be used on landscaping.

But my concern there is also would it not be wiser to table these issues and reconsider an engineered wetland on that property, just like the John Bunker Sands wetlands used by the North Texas Water and Municipal District that has a 2,000-acre wetland south of Dallas and that provides water to Lake Levant.

The water coming from that engineered wetland using 19 phenotypic plants is better and more pure than anything that they have in the area, so much so that it's improving the water column in Lake Levine or from where they pull water for Dallas and other counties.

I think that those are things that need to be considered if we are going to be good stewards of the legacy of my family and the heritage that we have brought to this community.

Also, when it comes to these neighborhood meetings with the developers, I'm a Craver.

This is the Craver Ranch Development.

I live immediately across the street where I grow Sudan and Coastal.

I never heard of these meetings.

I have neighbors that have never heard of these meetings.

There were a few people I understand from the last meeting that actually got invited.

I'm across the street.

I met him on the ranch on a Sunday morning, and I took him in my KM and drove him around the ranch and showed him the property.

I never got an invitation to those meetings.

So I'm gonna ask you to ask the developer to be a little more thorough in the invitation to the community.

Thank you for your time and thank you for your service.

Thank you.

And then Richard Richard Wells.

Richard Richard.

Okay, look, I I understand that y'all are excited.

But here's my thing.

We got to get staff home.

They got to be here at eight in the morning.

There's other people that need to speak.

They can't hear my name, their name called because you're clapping and excited.

So please just work with me.

I'm trying to get the we have a lot of people to get through.

I want to hear from everyone.

I do have the ability to cut people's time shorter to make us get through this faster.

Not hoping to do that, but I do want to be mindful of staff time and getting them home to their families so that they can do it all over again in a matter of hours.

So if you'd be so kind to hold the the the claps so that people can hear their names.

Richard Wells.

If you can come down, you'll have uh four minutes.

Please and thank you my name is Richard Wells.

Uh thank you all for allowing me to speak.

I just want to say that if I use the words we or us today, I mean all of us who live in Denton or Aubrey or Sanger or North part of County up towards Lake Gray Roberts.

Those of us who buy our groceries, clothes, hardware, see our doctors, get our haircut, attend our churches, take our children to school, visit our neighbors in Denton.

Those of us who live here now, and will live here for many years to come.

If I use the words they or them, I mean people who don't live here or may just be here for a short time, or anybody who would dare try to tell us what's best for our land and our people.

First, though, I want to read some portions uh to help us remind of the ongoing environmental impact statement concerning the proposed outer loop, which has been discussed.

The statement is a notice published at the Federal Register by the Federal Highway Administration that is dated September 26, 2024.

I will read only a few lines of the document because it's long.

Uh it's from it does talk about Collin County and Denton County, and it's a notice of 0926, 2024.

It's in the Federal Register for those of you who have not read it.

It's a federal notice of intent to prepare an environmental impact statement or an EIS.

And it says uh the Federal Highway Administration on behalf of TexDot is issuing this notice to advise the public that an EIS will be prepared for proposed transportation project to construct a six-lane freeway, primarily on a new location, a new location, not specific yet, in Denton County.

Text dot anticipates completing the study process for this proposed action by September 2026.

The draft EIS would be issued in February 2026, and the combined final EIS and record of decision would be issued in September 2026.

The proposed action may require issuance, and boy, there's a whole long list.

Clean Water Act, water quality certification, pollutant discharge, uh conformance with executive orders on environmental justice, wetlands, floodplain management, invasive species, endangered species act, migratory treaty act, etc.

etc.

etc.

It says in the study ultimately, this study will allow Denton County to preserve the land needed for the corridor to protect it from future development, to protect it from future development.

Transportation projects require years of advanced planning and development.

And in the last few days, I've heard from some people that the Outer Loop Plan is a done deal.

And that the final route has already been chosen, not true.

The document that I just read from says, and here I'll quote again this EIS will evaluate four build alternatives and the no build alternative.

So I spoke today with people at Tex Dot Dallas District in the office of Mr.

Langding, who is the project manager.

And I was told that the study is not complete.

And that TextDot anticipates completing the study process for this proposed action by September 2026.

That is the combined final environmental impact statement and the record decision would be issued in September of 2026.

And any decision made before the study is completed for major development of land in the proposed routes would be ill-considered and premature.

That is a good reason to delay any decision on development along those proposed routes because we don't know where it's going to go yet.

Further, if we allow they or them to force decisions that make life more difficult for citizens of Denton County, then shame on us.

If we allow they or them to convince us to financially burden our grandchildren and children through bonds and so on for years to come, then shame on us.

If we allow them to be very much, I appreciate it.

Richard Butner Richard.

Okay.

If you can come down and give your name, you have four minutes.

My name is Richard Buckner.

My wife is Helen.

We live in Denton County, have been there for the last 10 years.

And we live on Indian Wales Road, 7460 Indian Wales Road.

Together we own three businesses where we employ a little over a hundred employees in Denton County.

And so this is important to us because we try to nurture our employees and who's important within Denton County.

So tonight I want to talk about uh the Craver Ranch proposal in opposition to it because there hadn't been enough study done.

One of the things that the 2040, the Denton 2040 plan says is that uh it emphasizes large lot requirements.

Craver Ranch does not.

It also says it calls for significant setbacks.

Craver ranch does not.

It prioritizes open space conservation.

Craver Ranch does not.

But most importantly, the 2040 plan says that as a community, you as council members will listen to the voices of what we have to say.

And I think you know from the turnout here tonight that there's a lot of voices that have something to say.

The last thing I want to talk about is the environmental corridor, which literally goes right across the northern part of my property.

The environmental corridor is really uh what I call a living ecosystem.

What does that mean?

It means that when I go home in the afternoons or go to work in the morning, I can see deer standing in the yard.

That's real.

That's that's living.

I can smell the skunks.

That's real.

That's living.

I see the rat snakes in my chicken coop.

That's real and living.

I hear the coyote packs at night, trying to figure out what's for dinner, right?

All of that's a real ecosystem.

So with this huge development, where are they gonna go?

I I can't house them all.

I mean, when you really think about it, what are they gonna eat?

What are they gonna drink?

Where's the shelter coming from?

All this brick and mortar, 2,500 acres.

So before I'm cut off, um, I just like to say that as good stewards of the ACO system, we need to think about how all of this development is gonna lay out.

So tonight, I'd like to join my fail fellow neighbors here in asking you as council members to postpone any decision tonight and put it off at least past the holidays.

Uh you guys have staff members possibly on vacation.

Uh we're gonna be doing different things, and we'd like to look into early next year to be able to give you guys some time, give everybody some time to rethink this whole process.

Um lastly, the imp the decision is too important and too permanent for us to rush into it.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Next speaker is Karen DeVinny.

If you can come down and give your name, you'll have four minutes.

Um, Mayor and Council members.

I'm Karen Davinny.

I live at 1820 West Oak.

I'm I'm here to ask that you vote no on these applications.

I understand if you don't, however, all those tax dollars and charts and uh colorful maps, those are very tempting.

And I don't blame the developer for doing her best to promote this project.

So if you vote in favor of these items, and I'm hoping you don't for all the reasons you've been hearing, then I hope you remember the difference between the price of something and the value of something.

It's too easy to focus on the price in hard dollars, and it's too easy to ignore the value in intangibles.

That green space is valuable and becoming more so and more scarce.

It is one of the few remaining cross timbers grasslands in the county.

I would urge you to look at the Google Earth image of Denton County and Collin County for that matter, and see how much of it is being covered in rooftop rooftops every day.

Green space helps supply clean air and water, but also many other intangible benefits.

Many studies show that spending time in the green in the outdoors reduces blood pressure and depression and improves overall health.

I hike a lot at Clear Creek.

And during the stressful times of COVID, I encountered a man from out of town visiting his ailing father in Denton.

And he said that walking at Clear Creek saved his life.

You cannot put a dollar price tag on that.

So all I ask is if you do approve this development, you will think of the green that is being lost by 9,000 housing units, and try to ameliorate that loss.

So, some suggestions.

Maybe some of those 300 acres of the central park can be restored native prairie.

Maybe the landscaping on those tiny house lots can emphasize native plants, which by the way, use less water.

Maybe all those walking trails can be bordered by wildflowers that will sustain pollinators.

There are many groups and individuals in Denton who are eager to help with advice and even muscle if they are just consulted.

And improve the value of their land that that right now just has a price tag on it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Elizabeth Seymour.

If you can come down and give your name, you'll have four minutes.

I am specifically in opposition of this development.

So this is the definition of urban sprawl.

This is a cookie cutter area of land north of Denton, Sanger, and Aubrey, and is not contiguous with Denton proper.

And I'll say on short, CP is the comprehensive plan.

On page one through six in the land use issue, quote, it's to preserve rural character of this area, end quote.

This is a high density housing development in a rural area.

On page one through six, under housing issues, quote, rural residential zoning is one house per five acres and is a buffer to the agricultural land to the north and respects existing adjacent large estate neighborhoods.

High density development does not, end quote.

Line homes.

I think that they will be tall and deep and unesthetic in my view.

Next on CP page one-4, quote, in our rural fringe areas of the city and the extraterritorial jurisdiction ETJ, we see quote contiguous stage growth, which is fiscally and environmentally sound, reduces fragmentation and sprawl, discourages premature development, and is environmentally sound and conserves the city's future growing room.

Lastly, on CP page 2-3, quote, while the land use element does not seek to impede approved development in outlying areas, it does support rational stage development in the French and discourages approval of large additional scaled plan developments until currently approved developments approach build-out, end quote.

That's all the opposition that comes from the Denton Comprehensive Plan 2040.

Next, the geographic area out there, if you take the rectangle from 2153 and 2150 2164 and Gribble Springs and Shepherd Road, that is less than four square miles in a geographic area.

On your comprehensive plan, page one through 13, we have quote an efficient transportation system with a safe and well connected road network, which accommodates a wide array of mobility options, including local and commuter rail transit, as well as accommodations for pedestrians and cyclists, end quote.

That's not there.

There will be more traffic congestion, and my concern is the safety concerns that we have regarding the fatalities, the increased morbidity morbidity and mortality that will occur for motor vehicle accidents out there because the traffic is not set.

We do not have the infrastructure.

We do not want another 380 with Paloma Creek and Savannah and that entire development and that entire traffic disaster that's been for decades.

We are awaiting Text Otts decision for the Outer Loop.

Again, this is a premature decision to make to build over 9,000 plus homes in this area without the infrastructure to support the traffic, essentially making all of us traffic flow gridlock out there.

And you put 30,000 plus people out there as a population.

Next, the reason why we're wearing green is not because it's the December and we're the Grinch, okay.

We're here because this is the Green Valley in the Green Belt, and we are main green supporters who want to keep it that way.

I'm just gonna say this some of you are running in political races.

The filing date's gonna end on 128, and you may be running for county commissioner or mayor, but let it be known that your citizens of Denton are here, and the eyes of Denton are upon you and how you vote in this matter because we are requesting that you reconsider your vote if you're against it.

Um again, I'm an opposition of a dump Dallas my Denton.

Thank you.

Jan Dickinson Dixon.

Jan Dixon.

Thank you.

If you can come in and give your name, you have four minutes.

I'm Dan Dixon.

I live on Zachary Road in the ETJ near the proposed development.

Um I am the owner and operator of ranch and farm properties on Sachary and Burger Road.

I'm asking you tonight not to rush in to a change in the 2040 land use plan to accommodate such a dramatic change without a more thoughtful and careful consideration to the unintended or maybe intended consequences for the city of Denton and the surrounding areas.

The location of this proposed planned community is likely the most sensitive, diverse part of the city of Denton and of Denton County.

So this is really important.

Others are here to talk about issues of water floodplain traffic.

Very, very important.

I'm here representing a small farmer.

A very calculated decision to eliminate ranchers and farmers like me and my family, and others in the area of the city of Denton and those in the ETJ of Denton.

We provide livelihoods that foster a strong worth work ethic and build community.

Some say large lots don't allow for community building.

Hogwash.

They do.

There are so many connectivities between us small ranchers out there, you cannot believe that.

The open spaces of farmland, even my relatively small space, absorbs so much water that rooftops will just dump and cannot absorb.

And protections of watersheds that ultimately provide water to Denton, Dallas, and beyond our lands filter that runoff and recharge the aquifers.

We provide corridors for the habitat.

We are so close to the Green Belt.

My property adjoins the Green Belt.

We have to have spaces for our animals to be able to thrive and belong and not be blocked out by concrete walls.

When Craver Ranch was annexed by the city of Denton, although it was very controversial, my family felt relief.

We had the confidence that the leaders of Denton would continue their pattern of open collaboration and very thorough research of proposals when, not if, development came.

Those city leaders valued the special assets of Craver Ranch, the Green Valley area, and their proximity to Ray Roberts Lake and the Green Belt.

I am respectfully asking the council to pause this action before them, giving time for a more open and thorough consideration of changes to the proposed plan that will affect Denton and everybody to come.

Thank you.

Cecilia Williamson.

You'll have four minutes.

My name is Celia Williamson, and I've been a part of the Denton community since 1978.

I currently live in the ETJ nearby this proposed development.

My kids grew up here in Denton, went to the public schools, worshipped in the churches, played in the parks.

My husband's been a part of the community since he was in elementary school, and my granddaughter attends that very school right now.

I am proud to be a part of a lively and creative community in Denton.

I'm here today because I want us to remember what we already know that building houses is not the same thing as building community.

I'm a retired social worker, and in the 1980s, I worked for a while at Children's Protective Services, and then for a decade at Denton County MHMR.

The countywide focus of these organizations gave me the chance to observe up close the impact of a similar situation in Denton County.

A developer had purchased a large tract of land that was about a half an hour from the closest city of any size, and they begin to build family houses and young families moved in.

It was often the first house for those families, and they had to stretch their budgets to be able to afford their own home.

Both parents had to work to make those payments, perhaps working extra hours or a second job to make ends meet.

And now their commute to work took an hour longer every day.

They had to wake up their children at the crack of dawn and bundle them off to a daycare center or a school that was not close by.

At the end of the workday, they realized that if they realized they were out of baby formula or diapers, it was an hour's trip, round trip to get what they needed.

In winter, they rarely saw their kids in the light of day.

Traffic jams on inadequate roadways added to the stress.

And that's when things were going smoothly for them.

An extended illness or a car breakdown were major issues.

And there were likely no relatives or long-term friends living nearby since all of the residents were new to the area and living with a work and family schedule that made it hard to make connections.

In emergencies, fire and police services were a half an hour or more away, so even the best of response times, the interventions came late.

With all this stress on families, it should not be surprising that we saw increasing rates of child abuse and child neglect, and that mental health issues and high divorce rates added to the challenges these families were facing.

Homes left empty all day invited crime.

Building houses is not the same thing as building community.

And that's exactly why the Denton 2040 plan talks about a planned growth pattern that extends community even as the houses are built for new families.

It wisely advises against building homes on isolated peninsulas of land with few resources nearby.

And that's why it disturbs me to realize that the decisions about this huge new development have been made without sufficient community input.

I live nearby, I didn't hear anything about it.

Most of my neighbors have not heard anything about it until very late in the day.

So we are asking that the City Council take a deep breath and delay the approval of this project until it can be given deeper consideration and wider community input so that the resources for that community as it is developed come at the same time the homes are built.

So that the resources for that community as it is developed come at the same time the homes are built.

If the roadways come in 20 years, then we're in a crisis for the families that move in tomorrow.

So we're asking you to find a way to build more than houses houses and follow the wisdom of your 2040 plan.

That's your time.

Thank you.

Mark Lair.

Good evening.

My name is Mark Laird.

I live at 1328, Gravel Springs Road, Sanger, Texas, 7626.

I am the city of Dent employee, and this evening I'm talking to you as a Denton resident.

I I oppose the development.

I think the zoning needs a little bit of work.

If you look at the zoning that they're proposing, R7 is adjacent to one acre tracks.

It will uh effectively damage my property with the future road crossing.

Now with the the future of outer loop coming in, we don't know the connections going to be made.

There's three choices that they're looking at.

And I really think that until that alignment is chosen, um this development really needs that input from from that point of view.

I just like to say dental to what everybody to sit out there.

Uh the environmental, the coyotes, the live wildlife out there.

Uh they move out there quite a bit, and uh the concern is is the surrounding roads, the text art roads, the two-lane roads.

It's kind of like pouring uh a million gallons through a one-inch pipe when you need a six-inch pipe to do it with.

Um I just hope you guys take this into consideration.

Um I feel like this is my only opportunity to talk about because I can't talk to staff because I wouldn't don't want to put them in the position, and I can't talk to the applicant because I don't want to put them in the position either.

And so uh appreciate you taking the time and listen to me, and thank you very much.

Thank you.

Uh next speaker is Tim Williamson.

You can give you a name.

You have four minutes.

Hello, my name's Tim Williamson.

I've lived in Denton County since 1962.

My wife and I live on Zachary Road, which is uh just east of the Craver Ranch uh development, and we've been there since 2014.

A few weeks ago, a group of citizens came to the city council to express concerns about an apartment complex being developed near their neighborhood at the intersection of University Drive and Old North Road.

Some of you may remember that.

The constructor project had caused severe flooding in their neighborhood, and the builder was not adequately addressing community concerns.

Based on input from the neighborhood group and to the council's credit, the project was stopped, and a mitigation plan was put in place to address water flow issues before construction resumed.

So you may be asking what this issue has to do with Craver Ranch development.

Well, I'll tell you.

As you saw earlier, the Lake Ray Roberts spillway runs directly through Craver Ranch.

Um while it appears the developers have accounted for that water flow in the master plan.

What I suspect is that the developers perhaps have not accounted for the downstream effect of over 2,000 acres acres of prairie land being covered in several million square feet of concrete.

Lake flooding coupled with normal rainwater runoff could combine to create a serious flooding challenge downstream of the development, which means me, my house.

So the question is has there been an environmental impact study done to ensure that that uh property adjoining Craver Ranch will not be affected by flood water as these apartments uh over on University Drive were just if you it's going on still there.

Um the question is have you done the due diligence to ensure there's no flooding risk created by the Craver Ash development?

I'm not talking about so much inside the development, I'm talking about downstream of it.

If not, this project should not be allowed to proceed until that is that question's answered.

Uh my house is currently not in any floodplain, and I just assume it stayed that way.

Thank you.

Next speaker is Patricia Adams.

Give your name, you'll have uh four minutes.

And again, this is a public hearing as we get to the end of these.

Uh we're gonna close the public hearing.

So if you desire to speak, please fill out a blue card.

Um if you have again if you can give your name, you'll have uh four minutes.

Okay, good evening, Mayor Council.

My name is Patricia Adams.

I live at 10046 FM 2153, Aubrey, Texas.

I live in the ETJ.

Um we've lived here since 2006.

I raised my two boys here and drove the roads around the house, and believe me, was panicking as my teenagers got on the roads of 21 sit 53 and 2164.

Those roads have no shoulders, and in one of the workshops that I saw online, someone, the city engineer, traffic engineer made a comment that somebody, County Text dot somebody was putting shoulders on 2164.

They had it about two foot of pavement, that's not a shoulder.

We have a lot of traffic issues out there.

My concern here are a number, but I'm just gonna hit the high points because you've already heard some of the others.

Um for me, the the traffic and the ill-conceived development.

Uh, when you look at it on the map, it's an island in there.

How are you getting to it?

Well, they're gonna get to it by our roads.

There's already another sign.

Now they're gonna have another uh zoning case right up the road from me that was advertised as on the southwest bend of 2153.

I'm not even sure that's sufficient legally to identify for me where that's at.

Agenda hasn't been posted yet.

I don't get any notices because I'm not on the tax rolls because I'm in the ETJ.

Um, so I just happened to see all these signs as I was driving down the road one night coming home and it was dark, and I couldn't even see what they were, had to go back the next day and see what they were.

So our roads are not safe.

You're gonna put all these homes out there, and my other concern um I am a lawyer, I do work in land use, and I work with developers.

I'm not opposed to developers or development.

Uh but chapter 211 of the Texas local government code says you have a comprehensive plan and you zone in accordance with that comprehensive plan.

And that got twisted a little bit at the PNZ.

I'm not saying you can't amend it, but y'all went through a process to get there that involved community involvement, stakeholders, meetings to see what it looked like.

So in 2022, when the comp plan was updated, either one of two things happened.

Either not one brain cell was thought of thought was given to that area out there and what should be there.

So you say, eh, I just leave it AG.

Or there were many thoughts that were given to it, and the determination was made that it should be ag.

And today we're being asked by the developer to disregard that.

They're saying, yeah, just let's just retrofit this development into the comp plan.

We're doing a comp plan amendment because we're legally required to do that.

We're we've come up with this development.

We picked our space because it's one developer, and by the way, that's a red herring.

You have one developer.

Oh, wonderful.

You have apartments, you have residential, residential builders don't do commercial, commercials don't do residential, residential don't do apartments.

So one developer is not really accurate what they're telling y'all.

They've gone ahead and they have done this MMD, which they went to the legislature to do, and their operating agreement that's also on the agenda tonight.

It has one section about roadways that says developers shall reconstruct the portion of the east-west roadway adjacent to the property currently known as Shepherd Road and Gribble Springs Road to a four-lane divided roadway, etc.