Which one?

Oh, parks.

We can't we can't start without the clerk.

Can't start the party till she gets here.

All right.

John, you ready?

All right, good deal.

All right.

I need uh motion to accept the agenda.

So moved.

Second by Mr.

Creel.

Second by Mr.

Glavin.

Any discussion?

None.

All in favor.

It's approved on the 6-0 vote.

If you the clerk would note, Mr.

Marshall's out of the room.

Okay.

I don't know if you had a comment we'll do is have uh parks and rec and then it'll be followed by community development.

Okay, Doug.

Uh Mr.

Lee, you're on.

Uh you may want to make a statement or two.

You may want to just go to questions, whatever is your preference.

Right.

Thank you, sir.

Um, I'll go ahead and just kind of give an overview of what we're looking at.

Of course, you know, this is our draft budget based it based upon the current projected revenues of what we're doing and where we are at.

You see, we're looking at a total budget for this fiscal year of 4.215.

Um, four sets down from 4.9 in the previous year.

So uh for those that aren't aware, we will be taking over a new facility as well.

Um not a new facility, but a new facility in our department.

The visitor center will fall under parks and recreation beginning in October.

Just kind of falls more in line with the way our department set up and runs.

Um so that'll happen in October.

So based upon where we're at right now, these are the things that we are looking at doing to help get us to the number we need to be at.

Um in the administration section, we're looking at um moving from six full-time to four full time, not filling a computer operator or an executive secretary position positions.

Um that's gonna save about 107,000.

Um, we're looking at removing all the contractual grass cutting.

Um currently our sites of grass cutting our contracted grass cutting is at the causeway beyond the gate.

Keysler Federal Park.

Um as well as the visitor center.

And that totals about $90,000 a year for that contractual grass cutting.

Could you could you give us an uh account number so we can follow along or a line item number if you will?

I'm sorry.

That's how the contract is.

Well, uh 6645.

6645.

But okay.

Now I think recently we just moved it from contractual to lawn care in the past year or so, six, six, four, five or nine.

Nine, I'm sorry.

Nine.

So if I understood you correct correctly, you've moved six six four five.

You move that lawn care service down to six, six four nine.

No.

Vice versa.

Vice versa.

Vice versa.

That's good.

Thank you.

Correct.

So is that how you got to the 90,000 total?

90,000 is currently what we're paying this fiscal year for contracted last uh grass cutting.

Yeah, so so that looking at 6645 and 49, you got 52 and 47, so it's about 99,000.

Well, I mean, there's some other cuts that we're making throughout that too.

That's that's just what what it costs for the grass cutting.

So there may be a couple other things we're reducing as well or eliminating within that 6649 line itself.

Yes.

Um looking at all the other divisions be beautification, looking at reducing the overtime 35,000 to 8,000.

Park section, moving from 10 full time to seven full time, overtime reduction from 37,000 to 15,000.

Recreation maintaining positions, reducing overtime from 15 to 10.

And that's where we normally do our recreation programs.

So we are looking at our free programs offered to the public being reduced and/or eliminated.

We've we've started looking outside for maybe some different sponsors that would want to come in and you know support some different events that we have going on.

We've had a bit of positive feedback, not where we want to be yet, but we are working on that to help reduce costs for those.

Summer playground will most likely have to be eliminated as well.

We had a good plan for this fiscal year.

Um due to you know something that Dr.

Tisdale even mentioned, drop-offs throughout the year, we weren't quite able to cover our costs.

Now it was a lot better.

However, it didn't support itself, and we did take a small loss this year on it.

And in this current situation, we're we're not capable of taking any losses anywhere where we're at and where we're moving forward with for this drive.

I got a question.

Kind of being blindsided here.

Phone calls on me getting about closing the pool.

Yes, sir.

But is that rumor or at Snyder?

That's down on the list.

I'm I'm I'm getting there on that next one, yes.

Okay.

So moving into the athletics, we're looking at reducing athletic supplies for youth sports from 95,000 to 40,000.

What line item is that or whether you're two two?

So what do you attribute that to?

What do you would would that the where are you taking the hit to 55,000?

Or where are you taking the hit in the 55,000?

As far as just all over all sports.

So maybe a better way to put it would be what currently is provided that will not be provided in the future for athletics.

Well, and that's something that you know I've talked about with Ronnie and the presidents of the leagues just trying to come up with some different ways to generate revenue, whether maybe that's going out and getting sponsorships for your teams, putting, you know, the businesses back on the uniforms again.

They may not be able to get major league replica jerseys.

They may have to wear t-shirts with dad superpond on them or something along those lines.

Those are just some of the things that we're gonna have to look at doing.

Um, you know, we've been fortunate to be in the position for a while where we could provide those, but you know, this year we may have to look at doing something different, um, something that's a little more affordable.

We're looking at the possibility of raising fees for participants in use sports.

Not in, you know, we're talking about a small increase, but it would still, we would still be the cheapest around anywhere.

Right.

What do they pay currently?

For per sport, and we would try to maybe go to 75.

And I think most places, correct me if I'm wrong, Ronnie, are charging upwards of a hundred or more.

And they don't get near the support as well from the cities that we give our leagues as well.

We want to continue that, but we need to look for other ways to help support that or you know, defer those costs.

Right.

If you could just and and the reason I asked that question is so that the public knows what to what to expect.

You know, we're just trying to give them up down the road.

This is what you can expect.

So I appreciate that any detail you can provide.

Thank you.

You know this this is the draft, you know.

Um, hopefully we can only go up from here based upon what what we're able to do.

Um we've looked at the possibility of scheduling the sports hall of fame banquet maybe every other year, instead of having it every year, doing it every other year.

Um, and looking at only being able to support two ball tournaments per month based on our staffing situation.

Can I address that?

Sure, sure.

Go ahead, I so this is where I I kind of get salty, and the only reason I say that is the ball tournaments are are revenue driving um tournaments.

They they drive revenue.

I understand we have to we have to reduce our budget and and live within our means, but at the same time, uh I I think it's counterproductive to cut your revenue operating expense.

I mean, your revenue operating tournaments if we're cutting, I I think we're we're headed in the wrong direction there.

say that is the ball tournaments are are revenue uh driving um tournaments they they drive revenue i understand we have to we have to reduce our budget and and live within our means but at the same time uh i i think it's counterproductive to cut your revenue operating expense i mean your revenue operating tournaments if if we're cutting i i think we're we're headed in the wrong direction there I think if anything we need to concentrate on more tournaments to generate more revenue and figure out what we can save on this side or reduce on this side to emphasize and put more emphasis on the revenue generating opportunities if your league tournament if your city leagues are not revenue generating then maybe we reduce them and figure out how we can reduce them and put more emphasis on the revenue generating opportunities for for example have uh I know we just did uh councilman gray on the on your community market you just had a uh someone come in and be a person over at a manager okay well how come we can't task someone put a bit out for someone to task someone to come out and market the fields name and rights on the fields name and rights on the concession stand come out there and try to market that that sports complex that councilman glaven has lobbied for and has done a great job managing out there with the the fields are beautiful we need to market that we don't need to draw those back we need to put more emphasis on bringing those revenue generated opportunities not only at that complex but the spin-off the ripple effect of the revenue that generates around the area I I know y'all talk about doing the geo thing of of seeing what it generates and I know you do that and Councilman Glavin comes in here and touts those numbers and and and Ronnie shares them with us but the deal with that is is if you go to two to me it's counterproductive because now you're going to two and now you're not gonna you're gonna have to save more next year because you're not putting money in the thing that makes money I think we need to figure out what makes money invest in what makes money and figure out what we can reduce on the other side of it to be to to continue making money I I don't know that I want to support you.

I listen I appreciate you coming in here and giving us this I know this wasn't an easy deal but I I'm gonna be honest with you it's gonna be hard for me to swallow if I can't generate revenue out there it's just gonna be I mean why why did we do the bond and and I agree I understand on that councilman crew if I may just but we also have to look at our personnel side so it's not just about a revenue on there but we also got to take a look year round of how are we going to be able to pay all these individuals because of not only Monday through Friday but Saturday and Sunday too.

So that's what we were also looking at that.

So it's not just about is this making money for the this portion of it how is Jamie able to spread that across this department to be able to support all of that because I've got Ronnie working seven days a week so those are things that we have to take a look at and we're looking at those we're just giving you the draft synopsis right now of what we're looking at.

And if we can work through these that's exactly what we want to do because we want to be able to provide everything that we possibly can.

Currently right now this is our first draft that we're presenting to y'all to take a look at and if I may comment on councilman gray's comment a while ago no sir you're not blindsided because we discussed this three weeks ago with three of your council members and that we're supposed to get back with the other four.

Well and I appreciate that that's the issue it's not the the that was not shared with me either so I I didn't know about the pool and I got questions I was just going to let you but when you brought up two tournaments I I I felt like I had to interject because I'm I'm not agreeable to two tournaments.

Well and like I said you know I think that's one of the issues that we're having and I know Christie's mentioned it as well you know our grass cutting people are doing so many other things other than that you know our grass cutting people are working the ball tournaments they are doing the maintenance in the department when able they are doing the logistics the facility cleanups so it's hard for me as a director to say you know Ronnie or Joe Blow I expect you to work 70 75 hours a week for four weeks straight.

So that's that's where the difficulty comes in on how can we balance that out you know maybe it's maybe it's part-time help.

Maybe we put that out there for somebody who can work nights and weekends.

You know those are some different options that we are looking at but then you know with that being said that money is going to have to come from somewhere else that we've got allocated whether it is from a pool whether it is from programs we have to find that somewhere else take away from something to add that in there to to make sure it works.

Yeah I mean it certainly if it if it doesn't make dollars it doesn't make sense especially when it comes to you because you are one of the ones that is revenue generating not only with your tournaments but with your facility rentals as well that and we'll we'll get to that in a little bit but I'm just letting you know I saw I'm supporting more tournaments not less.

But I'm just letting you know I saw I'm supporting more tournaments, not less.

So I'm sorry to interrupt.

And I mean we've we've actually you know toward around with the contracting, looking at maybe somebody to come in, you know.

Um I don't know how that would work.

I've heard mixed mixed feedback from the neighboring city on you know the the pros and the cons, but that's something we can definitely you know look at and see if it would benefit us or not.

Well, and like and like we've we've said in the past uh when we've uh discussed this, is that if if we if they're not playing in Biloxi, it's not that they're not playing.

They're playing somewhere else.

So that's that's one thing we do we we need to uh entertain as well.

So Mr.

Glavin had a question.

Yep.

Um I'm gonna focus on the sportsplex uh right now.

I know that Parks and Rec encompasses uh a lot of different facilities across uh the entire city.

So you mentioned uh possibility of increasing fees or registration.

Uh do you have a number on that?

If we went to 75, have y'all calculated that out, or you just kind of talked about it and haven't calculated that number out yet.

It's kind of just a number that was thrown out initially.

What's that number thrown out?

75.

75.

25, what is the total if we registered the same amount of kids and and we went up that 25 bucks?

What is the increase in registration fees for the uh year?

If the number stayed pretty consistent, I think uh, you know, soccer, you're looking at 600 kids.

And Ronnie, correct me if I'm wrong, please, on our numbers.

600 for soccer.

35,000.

The registration.

I think that's a good question.

I know it moves because you got some discounts for multiple kids and all that stuff, but the registration by league-driven boards, which is your soccer, your softball, and your baseball, registration goes to the league to provide for their expenses of umpires, referees, scorekeepers.

If these rates go up, then that might give them an opportunity to take on some more expense as to maybe uniforms, maybe equipment, and take that burden off of us.

That we're paying in their effect, correct.

So it's not necessarily just taking it in to put it into a kitty, it would go to an expense and assuming them.

Then assuming that 100% of that increase, $25 is going to go to toward that and take that burden off of us.

Well, what do we well let me ask it a different way?

How much do we spend in uniforms for the leagues?

Jamie has a lot.

Bear with me just a little bit.

Um, I I do have it.

I just got to find it in my stack.

This this was based off this current fiscal year of 26.

Uh for baseball and softball, we spent right under 27,000.

Basketball, we spent 5200.

Soccer, we spent 166.

And football, of course, we're just doing football now.

This is from fiscal year 25.

A little over 14,000.

And those are the sports there.

That that's 27,000.

Is that baseball and softball combined?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

All right.

So here's my thoughts, Director.

And I know this is first draft.

I I hear you.

Sure.

Rick.

Uh so 60 that it's 60,000 right here, which you're throwing out there.

So if we covered it with increased fees, and I don't know if that's $25, $15, whatever, we do, but you'd have to calculate that out.

Then you could increase your uh the revenue part or whatever uh uniform or whatever we're gonna call it with the increase in fees.

What is that under the in the fees that you collect?

What category is that under registration?

Leagues, the leagues collect them themselves.

We don't collect those as the city.

Right.

So they collect it, they just pay us that expense.

So they pay they pay the officials directly.

No, the uniforms.

No, we just we Ronnie does the registration, gets with the leagues, they provide us a number of what they've registered.

And we write a check and give it to them.

We write a check to somebody, we get the uniforms and we give it to them.

Well, most of the time we order the uniforms ourselves and then provide them to the leagues.

Okay.

We we put it out on bid.

So they would do if we if we raise the fees, they would have to we'd have to somehow deduct that out at registration.

So they would do if we if we raise the fees, they would have to we'd have to somehow deduct that out at registration.

Is that how we do that?

Possibly, yes, sir.

But we also I get it.

So it would reduce our cost.

If we go up on the fees, use that allocation for uniforms, it would reduce our cost right now.

What you're calculating is $60,000.

More or less.

Okay, just bear with me.

If we get the sponsorships, like some of them uh the the council members have recommended field sponsorship, additional sponsorships, whatever it is, that would generate X amount.

I don't know what it what that X amount is, if that's 25,000, 30,000.

I I don't know.

You you'd you'd have to put a number to that.

The the next thing is concessions.

And we've talked about concessions, having a relationship with maybe with a preferred vendor and that preverred vendor would sponsor uh some of the um scoreboards call it, or say it's temporary fencing or something of that sort.

Uh that that's a possibility if we can if that that concession agreement is coming up, or even if it isn't coming up, maybe we it's time to maybe sit down and try to renegotiate it and see if we can uh convince that concessionaire.

Just to add in, councilman, this is the best we've ever done or ever even could have thought of doing with our current concession person.

Yep.

You know, like I said, like Rick was talking about.

My main my main concern right now with the complex is staffing it.

Okay.

How can we get money to pay people to staff it?

And I heard that part.

I get it.

I heard that part.

Y'all, y'all work magic this year.

We hosted an unprecedented amount of tournaments.

Uh, what did that transfer to?

Uh a record uh concession uh commission that we were able to realize this year.

We know there's a benefit in the community where they spend their money, and not so we don't collect directly those funds, but we know that it's generating tax money that otherwise would have gone to other fields uh such as Guffport, such as Pascagoula, and me and uh Councilman Marshall and Councilman Tuesday, I heard directly from Chad Kutchall that we are shifting market share, and that's what we were supposed to do.

That this this investment was supposed to do that.

I would ask you to consider this.

It's reasonable to go up on the fees at some point if other uh areas are paying $100 and we're paying half that.

Um I still think you ought to consider a conversation with the concession.

I don't think it's an ultimatum, but uh uh a conversation with them.

I I do think we need to still look at the permanent scoreboards and retrofitting them.

I know there was some dialogue, and it may be less expensive than replacing them outright, the the permanent ones with some technology, and then the temporary fences, because we we had a conversation with temporary fences that would open up a whole new avenue uh with girls' softball and other tournaments and those multi-day tournaments.

I think we if we focus on those multi-day tournaments, I think they're more uh revenue producing than the weekend tournaments.

I don't I'm not discounting, say do away with the uh the weekend tournaments only, but those World Series tournaments that roll in, and you got 102 teams or 110 teams out there and they're all out in our community, that is what we want.

It's what our business community wants, it's what we want, and it certainly has a return to us.

So I I'm gonna I'm gonna just spend ten more seconds.

I would ask that you modify your your figures on either collecting fees some kind of way to offset the uniform cost, somewhere at least by sixty thousand, and I would ask that you would put back at least 40,000 for scoreboard technology and or temporary fencing considerations.

That's all I got.

All right.

Uh thank you.

I think there's some questions, Mr.

Gray, this end.

Yeah.

Let's um Okay, you taking over the visitor center.

Correct.

But you're still going to be down six hundred thousand?

Almost 700,000.

Looking at that correctly.

Yeah, it's 7.973, then you're going to be at 2.15 on the front sheet, first sheet.

Correct.

And if you didn't have to no certain, and that was coming up after the aquatic section, which is fine.

We can shift gears to the visitor center right now.

Yes.

It's if we continue operating the visitor center, making no changes, having the temp labor, having even the grass cutting and everything, and what that place needs to be up kept, utilities, all of that.

But you have it at 200 and something, that's just that's staff, the 257,000.

Okay, that's just that is only personnel, correct?

That's the four four full-time people that doesn't include temp labor.

Right.

Because I know this is your first time taking it over.

Correct.

Yes, sir.

So this is I mean, do you think you have enough money to run that?

No, sir.

I mean, because well, I guess that's kind of a open-ended question.

Do we have enough to run it?

Yes.

We have enough to operate it.

Do we have enough to operate it as current?

No.

We're gonna have to look at a reduction in hours and or days.

We're floating around the idea of maybe nine to five Monday through Friday and nine to two on a Saturday, closed on Sundays, closed on the holidays.

You know, I've met with I've met with, you know, the visitor center staff manager, Ani as well, and and it's hard to pinpoint what day is more than the other.

Sometimes Mondays are great.

Sometimes Mondays are not great.

Sometimes Tuesdays are great.

Maybe we can look at doing one day during the week, and I know the people are visitors usually come in Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

So I don't know if y'all are busy our damn days or not.

It's it's hard.

I don't know.

It's very hard.

That's one thing that we looked at.

You know, would there be a better data closed than the other?

Not really.

Um, you know, or summer to summers a little different than the winter.

Yeah.

So it's okay, back to the Snyder.

Okay, right.

I know we jumping all over.

Um I guess the three councilmen that did the uh that was in on the hearing, well, that's other four did not know anything about the pool closing.

Y'all was okay with the y'all okay with the pool closing?

Well, we excuse me, Mike.

So when we go to these meetings, we hadn't had one in a couple of weeks.

All right, and I've tried to give everybody a summary.

I was not able to get a summary to everybody after this last meeting.

Uh this was mentioned.

Not the I don't think we mentioned the Snyder pool specifically, but I've gotten a I've got maybe you did, Jamie, but I've gotten several emails.

I'm sure you all got them as well.

The issue at Snyder Center pool is not a new issue.

It hinges on lifeguards and availability.

That's been a concern for the past ten years.

And what happens is you have to have two lifeguards at the Snyder Pool.

They can't open it unless they have two lifeguards.

And if they're short of uh a lifeguard at the nadatorium, they pull one from the Snyder Center, which means the Snyder Center closes.

What irritates the folks who use the Snyder Center pool, and it's understandable, they get up at six o'clock in the morning and they get there.

And hopefully, if a lifeguard is not going to show, they call somebody at five o'clock in the morning.

And uh, as I understood it, Jamie, I think you mentioned we make an effort to call folks and or they should call the pool in the morning.

Uh but that being the case, when they get there, if that communication is not made on their end or the city's end, they show up to a pool that's not open at six o'clock.

Some of these folks are not residents of Biloxi.

I've heard from several that live at Stone County, Ocean Springs, maybe Long Beach, that that come to the pool.

They come to the Snyder pool because uh the temperature of the water is a bit warmer and because there's a therapy pool, which they don't have at the nadatorium.

That therapy pool is warmer than the Snyder Center pool, and it's used really as you get older, and I appreciate this for mobility purposes.

So part of the part of the issue is there are never enough lifeguards, and this gets particularly more difficult as the summer progresses because you have kids leaving their jobs, going back to school.

I tried to make that a quick summary that I hit all the points.

Yeah, that was that was perfect.

Um just speaking in the aquatics division as a whole, um, you know, we were we were at 14 permanent positions, eight full-time, six part-time, and we're looking to move into six full-time, which includes one secretary.

It's when we look at this, yeah, I mean, finances are one thing, but we're just not getting the people.

We're not getting the candidates that want to be certified as lifeguards.

Or when you do have a class, it's kind of like, you know, the PDs even face, and I know it's on a different level, but you offer a class for lifeguard certification, you get 10 who are interested, you get three or four who show up, and you're lucky if one or two of those can pass the pretest to go into the class.

And let's not talk about once they get into the class, they're required to attend all sessions.

If they miss a session, they're out.

You know, they have to be able to be there in the class because it is a certification.

They are titled first responders.

Their job is important.

I know you know everybody thinks of lifeguards as just, oh, well, these are the guys sitting up in the stand with the sunblock on their nose watching the pretty girls walk by.

But it is a lot more than that.

You know, they are able or they are certified to save someone's life if they are in danger in one of our pools.

So I don't know if it's something we need to look at increasing the pay, the starting pay going forward, so we can hopefully retain more lifeguards, and maybe they'll make a career out of it with the city if that's the route we want to go.

It's the route I want to go.

What is the starting pay for a lifeguard?

$15 an hour.

That's okay.

Yes, sir.

Go ahead, Mr.

Gray.

So we charge out of city people the same as we charge the citizens of Biloxi for their for their membership to come.

No, sir.

We have we have resident versus non-resident rates.

Okay.

So I mean, have we look at if we need to increase them compared to other cities around us, what they charge?

I mean, i yes, but we're in such a unique situation.

We're one of the few cities that do that does have a operational aquatics program like we do and fitness.

I mean, the YMCA, but they're their own separate entity.

But yes, I do believe that we do need to look at an increase in our fees for people who do utilize our facilities.

I mean, we have to maintain those.

You know, the the price of chemicals have gone up.

The price of somebody just simply driving here to fix one of those ellipticals has gone up.

And we have to be able to cover the cost for the users that use our facilities.

You know, we had talked about instead of maybe a three dollar uh daily rate going to five dollars, looking at going up about 33 percent, kind of based on what the rest of the inflation and everything has gone up, you know, instead of sixty dollars.

I mean, the cheapest pass you can buy is an annual senior resident pass is sixty dollars a year to use either the pool or the fitness center.

When's the last time the the fees were raised?

Uh uh somebody asked me that earlier, and I know it's been at least it's been at least five or six years.

Okay.

I'm I'm it's been a while.

Okay.

Yes, sir.

So real quick, so we we we charge five dollars a month?

If you look at it that way, yes, sir, we do.

I ain't finished.

Go ahead.

No, not five dollars a month.

For for a senior annual pass is sixty dollars a year, five years.

Correct, five dollars a month for for twelve months.

Yeah.

Um other people come in there that do we charge everybody that walks through the door?

Or like no, sir.

The the only ones that we currently charge for are for people who utilize the pool or the fitness area.

If you come in and use the walk and track, the basketball gym, come in to play pickleball, you come in for free.

We're not charging.

I think that is something we have to look at now as well.

If if you want to come into the Snyder Center and use the Snyder Center, for whatever reason, you need to pay a daily fee or you need to be a member.

If you're an out-of-city member or not a non-biloxi resident, that's fine.

We have a pass option available for you.

Mr.

Gray, if I may, that is one thing that we've taken a look at across the board, because even some of our centers that don't pay for each other, because if we look at changing the rates at some of those, currently right now, the only two centers that break even are AJ Holloway and the Civic Center.

Every other facility that we have loses money, especially during any rentals.

So we've got to be able to take a look instead of going, you know, 24 hours, you get it at this.

We need to say, uh, let's go by the hour rate, and independent upon what the personnel requirement is, and also historically what is the electricity and maintenance.

So those are things that we're trying to take a look at too, but we'd also like the feedback from the council because you're going to be the ones that are going to approve this.

So we are looking at doing all of that and saying this is where we need to go to the future of how we need to maintain these buildings.

We don't want to make any money off of them, but we don't want to lose any money either.

Right.

But that's kind of where we are now with no lifeguards, not have enough money to pay them.

And going back to, you know, the aquatics division, you know, the Snyder pool, according to this, will have to close after probably the next two weeks.

We simply don't have the staff to staff it.

We have five lifeguards.

And if you have to choose one or the other between the natatorium and the Snyder, the natatorium gets twice as much, maybe even three times as much usage as the Snyder Center does.

Well, can we rotate them, be closed one three days and one two days?

Well, I mean, the issue you start having then is how much money do you want to dump into a pool that's just sitting there empty the majority of the time?

Because there are still chemical costs associated if you're using it.

There's still utility costs.

No, you you we wouldn't have to drain it, but however, not heating it is going to provide a significant benefit or not, I wouldn't say benefit, maybe cost savings, because without anybody using it and without the water being as warm, far less chemicals will have to be used to maintain that.

So can we just not heat it and use it?

I mean you're getting into the point, like Dr.

Tisdale said, that the majority of your users who use the Snyder pool like to use that pool because it is a lot warmer.

And you know, you have the the aqua exercise people that go in there, you know, you do have some lap swimmers, but you know history has taught us that when you're swimming laps in a workout environment, you can't you you shouldn't be doing it in water that that's warm.

That's why the natatorium stays at the recommended temperature.

So we're not having people overheat while they're in there working out, doing their laps.

It's more of a lap setting, you know, a workout area at the natatorium, plus, you know, with the YMCA being closed, we are actually generating some additional revenue from these high schools that have requested to rent the pool while they can't swim while they can't train at the YMCA for this high school season.

So that is a little bit of an additional revenue boost for us as well there.

Well, hopefully we can figure something out one way or the other.

But just to give you an idea, um with everything included, 160,000 a year to operate Snyder Pool.

That's two lifeguards with the utilities.

That's about what we've come up with.

Chemicals.

Okay.

Well, you know, just I mean, we got blindsided where everybody texting and calling that was closing, and we lost four didn't know anything about it.

Yeah, so it's kind of like we don't know, we've not heard anything about that.

Well, but councilman, at the time we didn't have to close it.

But when somebody puts in a resignation, we don't have a choice.

This this came about, and Jamie, I appreciate you.

You give me a heads up.

I'd put that in my newsletter, which goes out weekly, but um the decision was made because you had a lifeguard leave.

It could have happened two months ago, or it could have happened three weeks from now.

You'd have kept the pool open if you had the lifeguard.

Absolutely, 100%.

Are almost exclusively senior citizens.

I could be wrong.

I would say the majority is.

Okay.

Let me go back to you, Mr.

Gray.

Go ahead if you have more questions.

That's all I had.

I mean, I'll just trying to figure out why honestly we didn't know anything about this.

Well, no, I know we had one who resigned, but fortunately decided he wanted to stay for a little bit longer.

So that's gonna allow us to at least keep the other one.

I mean, we're down to five lifeguards to operate a pool the size of the natatorium.

That's you know, if if somebody calls out, then we close it down.

We have no choice.

Now we were able to flex some schedules here and there if somebody needs a day off just due to the odd number of five.

But other than that, if somebody calls out and like Dr.

Tisdale said, it's very hard for us to get the notice out when we open the doors at 5 a.m.

if somebody calls out at 3 30, 345 in the morning.

Well, instead of charging $60, maybe you can look at it doing it $10 a month and so a yearly fee, maybe doing $10 a month of, you know.

And so of a yearly fee, maybe doing ten dollars a month of you know.

Well, uh and and you're right, and I understand, but then you know, you're talking about a lot more clerical work, writing receipts, collecting money, making sure they have the pass.

I'm not saying it's not a good idea, but I just think that you know, if if we wanted to do that, let's just charge $120 for the year and come in and pay for the year.

And that way we're done with it.

We can make one receipt for the year versus trying to, you know, handle hundreds of monthly memberships.

That's that's good.

I mean, if you explain to them why it's going up, you know, that you gotta pay for lifeguards and you know, the cost of everything.

Maybe some of them maybe do a pull uh poll here in the next few weeks.

I mean, I don't know what you would have to do to raise the prices, you know, get it bring a resolution in front of us or I'm not sure if that's I wouldn't I don't know if that's case.

I mean even if it's ninety ninety dollars, I mean it's better than what you're you know.

Sure.

So but it's something to look at.

That's all.

No, we'll take a look at it and see what it would require to hire the amount of people for that facility, and then we'll get back with you on that next week.

Maybe we can look at maybe saying what it would cost to uh sub out the lifeguards.

Maybe somebody else can see what it would cost for we're not taking them on full time.

Okay, we still have another department to get to, but uh, nope, that's all I have.

Thank you.

Okay.

I think Mr.

I think Mr.

Marshall had a question or two.

Yes, sir.

Yeah, I do have some questions, but um I just want to just go on and just make a a general statement.

So when I it has nothing to do with you, you can actually go to your C.

I'm good.

Everybody has three.

You have some more questions?

There'll be a couple of more questions.

Go ahead.

I'll wait till I go last.

You know, Mark, sir, please.

Yeah.

I'm I'm gonna go I'm gonna go laugh before you go.

Okay.

Go ahead, Mr.

I was just gonna ask you, you don't have a general figure on how much it costs to to maintain Hillard Park.

Is that just grass?

You really don't have anything but grass, huh?

Well, I mean, grass, litter pickup, small maintenance, of course, you know, we talked about trying to get the bridges, rails and stuff redone, painting, different things, splash pad we have out there, then hopefully maybe some bathrooms coming up soon, you know.

Uh we all have deals.

You put some budget money in there for the budget for that, or just we're just gonna work with it.

Are you talking about for the Hiller Park and I mean we're we're gonna do whatever we can in-house.

Hopefully, after we get done with one location, we're gonna move over there and kind of see what we need to do there to get some stuff operational.

Okay.

That's just why it's good it is taking a little bit of time because we are trying to do as much of the work in-house to save as much money as we can.

Right.

Okay.

Yes, sir.

But no, I don't have an approximate cost.

All right, all right, thank you.

Yes, sir.

Uh Mr.

Greel.

Um, so I know you mentioned something earlier about the notatorium real quick, and I'm not gonna beat it at a horse.

I know we're gonna we'll have another meeting, we can ask a bunch of more questions, but um I know a lot of the notatorium is used by Bloxy High and or neighboring schools, correct?

Right.

So is there any way have we reached out or have we talked to the Biloxi school board to see if they would be interested or not interested, how about you guys fund the lifeguards um that that are there for the track meet for the swim meets for the Bloxy High um uh swim practice for uh all the things that are that is school related, well why why wouldn't they incur that cost of of the lifeguards that that are there?

I'm pretty sure that the interlocal agreement that was set up because the nanotorum actually sits on school land, city building on school land, similar to the situation at the complex.

So I'm pretty sure that one of the caveats in there is we can come use your facility, the city runs it, we understand that.

The school can come use the facility whenever they need it during certain times of the year, just as well as they can with the complex.

As long as they schedule it through us.

So we don't benefit monetarily from anything that the school does there.

It it it's the school is strictly an expense then.

Well, I mean, I guess you could look at it that way, but they do own the land that the building sits on.

And and so I guess that's the dollar a year type deal that we have.

Um probably that out there.

The only reason I'm asking is the only people making money is everybody else but the city.

So uh that's that's the bad part about it.

You know, I mean, if it doesn't make dollars, it doesn't make sense.

And at some point we have to quit tripping over dollars and making pennies.

And and that's the issue.

We we have these revenue generated opportunities, and guess what?

They've been on this gravy train for a long time.

Uh a lot a lot of organizations have.

And at some point, it it's time for them to realize that you know, at some point it it fairs fair, right?

So uh you know, with profit's not a dirty word, and we're not looking to break even all the time.

I mean, at some point we have to realize that inflation and we gotta make those a sixty dollars a year.

You can't get Planet Fitness for that.

Uh I just I mean, they can go to Planet Fitness for $999 a month, and and and we're giving it to them five five dollars.

Fifteen dollars.

It went up to fifteen actually.

The basement membership did?

Yes.

Okay.

Well uh exactly thank you.

Yes, I mean, yeah.

So uh I mean it just it baffles me.

So and and I asked Councilman Tisdale the question is why why are we looking at these dire straight numbers when we throughout this conversation we have all identified ways to generate more money?

Why haven't we put those practices into place?

And I guess it's because we haven't gotten to the revenues yet.

So I'm gonna reserve the rest of my comments until we get to revenues, and then we'll have a lot more conversation.

Yes, sir.

Thank you, Mr.

Creel.

Mr.

Schumacher.

I gotta have just a couple of quick questions.

The visitor center.

Yes, sir.

Does that make any money?

I I I know you gave the numbers earlier, but I didn't know.

I think I think that'd be more of a question for kind of Diana and Jerry, but like I said, you know, Councilman, I'm very unfamiliar with the operation.

You're right.

I you know, just with us taking over.

I don't know, Diana might be able to handle that.

Well, the the visitors center functions in a dual capacity.

It's our welcoming center to tourists, so we do not make money off of that.

But yet we house it seven days a week with employees.

And then we do rent it as well for events.

Our rentals make about 110,000.

The we have four or five employees.

Four for permanents and then two temps.

Electricity is about a hundred and seventeen, and we pay temp labor about a hundred and sixty to make it operational seven days a week.

So no, it is not.

Right.

Okay.

I didn't think so, but I just thank you for that.

For our rate increase for some of the rentals that we look at.

We're looking at all of this.

Right.

We wanted to get a feel from you, gentlemen, of which way are y'all looking at.

I mean we were asked the other day about what type of revenue generating things do we bring you.

And these are the things that we talk about is exactly this.

We talk about abalorum tax.

We talked about doing the occupancy tax, we've talked about going up on the different rental facilities.

Jerry has looked and he'll he'll cover this on our permit fees and all of those.

Our permit fees and everything that Jerry before Jerry even gets up here, I'll tell you, we've looked at those.

Those are about equal across the board from the coastal areas.

But some of the some of these other ones, dealing with Jamie, we really have got to take a hard look.

And it's not trying to make money on that.

What it is doing, though, is we've got to break even, as you just heard from Ms.

Thornton.

It brings in $110,000 a year, and it costs us what, four or five hundred thousand a year.

I think six hundred and something.

Those are the things that we've got to be able to balance out.

The Groich Center should not cost us money to be able to support someone that's doing something.

And only thing we're looking at is what's what does it cost per hour?

And then that's what we charge.

And those are the things that we're trying to take a look at, and probably about a ten, five or ten percent over it, just to make sure that we're able to do maintenance on those.

Those are the things that we're looking at.

And if y'all are open to that during these discussions, we'll start taking a look at how we can do some of this.

But remember, there's very few revenue generating things that happen here.

I've still got police, I've got fire, I've got other things that we've got to do as well, too.

So we've got to look outside the box, and I'll be the one to say it.

I know everybody's talked about it, but I'll I'll throw it out there.

Our Avalon taxes have not been raised since I think Councilman Tisdale, you said 94?

About.

All right.

Occupancy tax.

You've heard the mayor talk about it.

We go from a 50,000 city to a hundred and fifty thousand city almost every weekend.

Why not push that back over on to the tourists that are coming doing an occupancy tax?

And I know there's all the political ramifications that I don't have to deal with that y'all do.

And I and I applaud you for those.

But those are things that we've got to be able to take a look at, along with a food and beverage tax.

But those are things that we have discussed throughout.

Now, where we get to there, again, that's up to you seven plus one.

I'm here to make the recommendations from these directors and technical experts to give you everything that we possibly can.

And that's things, please get with me, let me know, get with each one of the directors.

I think I think what you heard up here is everybody's pretty much open to looking at additional revenue and any recommendations the administrative team comes up with, we'll certainly consider.

Is that okay if I finish?

I didn't know I thought you were doing no sir.

I had three quick questions.

Please continue.

Please continue.

Please continue.

Thank you.

Real quick comment.

I think, and I don't know that any of us are much to blame, but I think the city's dropped the ball for years because what we have done now, we've waited to bring up Advilora that should have been raised quite frankly a long time ago.

I mean, maybe over the last 30 years, occasionally every four years or something.

I don't know.

Through its center, all of those sports, all of that probably should have been raised a little bit at a time.

I don't even think people would notice it.

They'd pay it now.

Everybody thinks the city's broke, and the optics of that is horrible because we're raising everything because the city is broke.

I'll digress on that.

Quick question on the souvenir um store.

Do they really?

I mean, is that just kind of there just as a for visitors to come in and buy anything?

Do we lose money on that?

We actually make money.

Oh, okay.

Our cost of sales in there is about 45 to 50 percent.

But a lot of the inventory we don't own.

It's all consigned.

Okay.

So we keep our portion and then pay them for what it actually sold for, less our commission.

So a lot of the inventory is not even ours.

We don't make a lot of money, but we don't lose money on that.

Okay, great.

Two more quick questions.

Um director.

Sure.

Um the fees that we're charging now for say sports or the different, I don't know, the the different uh buildings, are those compatible with other cities locally?

Um it's so hard.

Well, I mean, like uh the only thing we can really compare to, like I said, you know, there's not a whole lot of pools around, so we really can't around this area anyway.

Um not everybody has a civic center.

But as far as like the growth center, possibly will market city center in your area and Snyder Center as well.

Mostly everybody else that we've looked at does have an hourly rate.

And just real quick, the issue that we have is we charge a flat rate.

Early as you can get in there at 7 a.m., you've got to be out by 2 a.m.

Well, a renter, a renter can come in, pay the X amount of dollars.

Well, I want to get in there at seven and decorate.

Well, they put on the contract, they want to get in there at seven.

They have the facility according to their contract for the whole day.

We have to have somebody there with them, or we feel we should.

We don't we don't want to just leave a a building vacant.

I know some people do, but uh I personally don't like that.

I want to protect our investment, protect our facilities.

Um they may they may be six, seven-hour debt time.

That you know, unless they specifically state, hey, we're leaving and we'll come back.

Should they?

Yeah.

But do they have to?

No.

You know, they go home and rest while we have somebody just sitting there most of the time on weekends, it's overtime.

Right.

Um, so you know, with an hourly rate, maybe it'll be a little more incentive for you to make sure you're there for the hours you need to be there.

Right, I agree and we're covering our cost at least for those hours that we have to staff it.

They pay your boy.

In sports, uh the numbers I and I know if we do in the sponsorships would be different, obviously, but are our numbers somewhat compatible with what we're charging?

I I think we're still on the low end, aren't we, Ronnie?

Okay.

All right, last question then.

Life guard shortage.

Is that just here in the city of Biloxi?

No, sir.

So that's everywhere.

That's nationwide.

Okay.

Yes, sir.

That's all I have.

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms.

We're gonna go, Mr.

Gray, for one small brief question, he told me, and then we're gonna go to Mr.

Marshall to bring us home on parks and recreation, and then we'll finally get to Mr.

Creel, who's been waiting patiently.

All right, go ahead, Mr.

Gray.

That's why last year, when we brought up raising it, raising the millage is because we were seeing what was going on.

And I think what we have three to four and it failed.

Three, four vote, correct.

And if we had done that last year, we wouldn't have been as bad as we look in this year.

And that's all I'm saying.

We we brought it up, we voted on it.

So just let everybody know.

Okay.

You have two minutes.

Well, I oh, I got two minutes.

Everybody else had all their time.

That's okay.

I don't need long.

To any of my fellow council members, I'm asking questions.

I'm asking them for a reason.

I'm not picking on anybody else.

I'm not against development.

What I'm asking is, what is it costing us to develop it?

I'm running these numbers and I'm seeing up front, we cannot make it just by building out rooftops.

We have got to have a better mix.

We can't just subdivision ourselves out of this death spot we're in.

It won't work.

We have to push forward with a better mix.

The residential questions that I'm asking about what these developments are costing is so that I would have a better understanding.

So as far as Mrs.

Ms.

Diane.

Oh, $350,000 house.

What is the uh the amount that the city receives when you take out all the other parts of the millage?

The actual dollar amount on a $350,000 house.

I calculate one point or um $1,500.

Bull over $1,500.

$1,500.

That's just our share.

Okay, a year.

Okay, now what if a person's a senior citizen 70 no seven years old?

You're gonna have to ask someone else.

Okay.

Just presumably it's gonna be less than that, right?

Yeah, it would be less.

But I I don't know the exact formula for that piece.

And I did, is it by point fifteen or is it by point 10?

0.10.

Then I gave you a wrong number.

Residential point 10.

You know, it's 0.10.

You can calculate.

Well, I'm asking you, I mean I never I I missed half my math classes.

It's it's um a little over a thousand, then if it's a point 10.

Okay.

Just want to make sure so we all can we all can use the same the correct number when we're calculating things out.

Okay.

I did it before that I came up with a lower, much lower number.

I don't mind the number being, I just want to get the true number what we're looking at.

Okay.

So what I meant, what I'm saying is that when I'm asking these questions, I'm not picking on a developer, I'm not picking on award.

I'm saying that when we are developing these communities, development, development, there is an actual cost to that.

We need to know what that cost is so we'll know how we can approach it going in the future with it.

That's all I'm asking.

So just like you guys are sitting here trying to uh you really get penny pension on $50, $60 stuff, and then we turn around and we commit millions of dollars into service service uh cost on one project without asking the question.

So I'm asking the question, you know, and as far as these centers and things like that, you if it's the deep paying a hundred dollars, Snyder Center paying sixty dollars, there's a senior citizen paying sixty dollars.

They're actually not paying sixty dollars, they're paying taxes, and their taxes are to cover that also.

Now, if you want to raise anything first, double or triple the person that's coming from out of town to use our services.

But if a person is a citizen and they're paying $60 a year, they're also paying taxes and they're to help to build that building in order to get the building there.

And then people do you think we take in an average worm each year.

Well, that's also what I'm trying to get to.

I'm trying to get to what are we bringing in and how we bring it in and what is the effect of these new developments.

I'm for the bill, I'm for the developments.

Let me be clear.

But what about streets?

What about payroll?

What about building maintenance?

I mean, we make 14 million dollars in ad valorum.

Do you know how far 14 million dollars goes?

Which goes back to my point.

Adding new residentials, building out subdivisions may not be our only way to look at developing this city.

We have to find another way.

That's my whole point.

Our air alarm taxes, if it's a thousand dollars, add it up.

We go out, we're gonna build another 400 houses.

We've also increased all the services you just talked about.

The street cleaning up, we just keep up the streets, farts, uh, uh police, all that just increase.

So we have to find a way to increase our revenue so that we can sustain all of the services that we're trying to offer.

We can't just retain it from hoping that well, we're gonna be good now because we got another 400 houses going up.

We just picked up a lot of service obligations with that.

Your point is well taken.

Your point is we need economic development, it just can't be all residential.

Why do you got to say it in three seconds?

Well, I just took 20 minutes there.

I know.

I know.

Residential.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right.

Um, Mr.

Creel.

Yes, sir.

Okay.

All right.

The real crew, the other real crew.

I'll I'll try to be brief.

Thank you.

Try hard.

All right.

Um you can see if you have the information in front of you, you'll see that our budget is a uh reduction of 1.3 million under the 2026 budget of $3.8 million.

And as Jamie said uh some of that is attributed to the fact that the visitor center salaries and some of the services for the Vistor Center has been transferred over to parts and recreation, but there's also some uh reductions that that we're making.

Um if you take if you take the total of $2.49 million that's being proposed, and you deduct the salaries from it, which are close to $2 million with salaries and benefits, uh it leaves us with a total in the supplies and services charges and charges of $547,368.

Now, out of that, there are there are things that we could could reduce, which we did, but there are some things that we we really can't reduce.

Uh fuel and gas, for example, uh the tree mitigation money, which can only be released when the council approves a project for it to be released to other professional services, telephone telegraph, postage, natural gas, electricity, uh, other contractor services, the tree maintenance and the tree cutting, we have to keep that at $100,000.

So the tree maintenance is $15,000 and the tree cutting is $85,000 in order for us to continue to qualify for Tree City USA.

Um land clearance, we did reduce land clearance $15,000 from $90 down to $75,000, and then we have software licensing of $11,000.

Now, those things that I just mentioned that we can't really reduce, add up to $378,594.

If you take uh if you take that amount from the $547,368, that leaves us with $168,000 to operate for the whole year of 2027.

And it will it will be very, very tight.

Now, again, we're we're a we're service-oriented.

We don't have to have big equipment and things like that.

Occasionally we have to buy vehicles, um, which we we did get the three vehicles through the lease program, and we uh salvaged three vehicles, and I'm looking at salvaging three more, and all six of those were vehicles that we actually got right after Katrina from MDA.

And uh lately they've just been a money pit, so we're getting rid of those.

But $168,774 to get through the year with.

Uh one of the things that we've done is uh we we had 32 positions, four of those are going with the visitor center over to the visitor center.

Uh we have 28 full-time positions.

Um, let's see, three that were uh that we have existing that are not funded.

That's the historic administrator of the city arbors and the building permit administrator.

In this proposed budget, we're proposing that two more be not be funded, and that would be a planning tech one, which we had a person leave that job, and then the other one is a code enforcement officer where we we had two building inspectors retire this year, and one we hired from the outside, but the other we promoted from within.

He was a code enforcement officer, and now he's the residential building inspector.

Um let's see.

The significant reductions that we're proposing, number one is we normally give back bait mission $50,000 a year.

We're reducing that down to $25,000 for the for the upcoming year.

Uh the repairs to the old brick.

Could you could you give us the account number?

Really, if you would, so we kind of can follow along a little bit better, Jared.

I'm sorry.

It just helps to be able to look and see what you're speaking of.

Back bay mission.

Back bay mission is paid out of uh 01311 6432.

Okay.

Okay, other professional services.

Okay.

Okay.

Um, we're probably not going to be able to do the repairs to the uh old brick house this year.

Um the I don't know, I I explained this to some of y'all.

What happened is we had a a price to replace the roof on there when the roofer looked at it, he said that the support walls on the end of the building had to be braced and tuck pointed before he would even get up and touch the roof.

And by the time we calculated in, everything involved the the required consulting architect, the brick and mortar repair, the bracing required, and the roof, it was coming up to over two uh up to almost 200,000.

So that's one of the things that we have have put off.

Um let's see.

I told y'all that we had reduced land clearance by 15,000.

That's something that we just have to look at each year.

We may need more money as as we go for that, but we try to prioritize what we're cleaning up.

Uh let's see.

Rick had already mentioned that our we checked our fees out and our fees for planning commission applications, licensing, all of those things are right in line with the other cities and and counties around us now.

I will tell you this from a construction standpoint, uh on the positive side, uh our permits for new our total construction valuation for new construction, just new construction, is over 10 million dollars ahead of where it was last year at this time.

Uh our sales tax revenues, we've just had our 63rd month in a row where we have topped uh million dollars and we're still averaging a million and a quarter.

That's never happened in the history of Biloxi.

The the gaming revenues are kind of up and down a little bit, but this past month we compared that to the two months of June for the two previous ones, and we're six million dollars ahead this time.

And I think there was some concern that that might be down.

From uh and the new construction number that I gave y'all, which is uh a hundred over a hundred and ten million dollars for this year, um that does not include any renovations, any repairs, any subcontractor permits or anything, which would probably almost at least come half to double in that, you know.

So everything that we're doing in the way of economic development is working, and it's not just single family subdivisions.

We've got hotels, we've got proposed hotels, we've got another hotel that's getting ready to submit building plans on the west end of town.

Uh we actually have six hotels that are in the works right now, which is going to add to tourism.

We've got restaurants that we're working on.

The Chick-fil-A is scheduled to open in late August.

Uh, they're finishing that up.

So it's not just single family subdivision.

The reason I brought up single family subdivisions in the past is because businesses come and businesses go, and sometimes you can depend on what they're promoting and not.

But single family subdivisions are a very stable tax base.

You could actually build realistic budgets off of those kind of things.

Does that mean that all we're focused on is single family subdivisions?

No.

And the question was asked earlier about how do we know when we're breaking even or not.

I don't know how to calculate repairs to streets and utilities that have not occurred yet and balance that with what we're we're doing here.

I mean, we're not paying to put in the water and sewer in those subdivisions.

The developer is doing that.

At the end of all the infrastructure going in, then the city makes a decision about whether or not we're gonna accept those utilities or not accept those, or the streets that come in.

If all of those utilities and those streets have been installed according to the standards that are in our manual, then the city traditionally and in the ordinance has accepted those streets, and we take over the maintenance on them.

But we never know if that street is gonna fail, not gonna fail.

That's why we have the two-year warranty in there.

Typically, if a street makes it two years, then we're gonna get some uh lifelong uh residual out of it.

Um but you know, I've seen the council turn down some streets, you know, the uh the the lost villas down on DeBees Road, you know, they had proposed that we take over basically their their parking lot.

There was no benefit to the city to take that over because we had no intention of extending that.

So that one was turned down.

But streets inside of a subdivision, these developers kind of calculate that in with their development cost.

And so we we have to consider that.

And we we just never know when a street is gonna fail.

We may go 10 years without having to do any maintenance to those streets, but occasionally we do have to go out there and repair something.

I have a few questions, so just as a privilege, because I didn't ask many before.

I want to get my questions in very quickly.

Um Chair, if you if you look at um 01311, this is under services and charges, that would be account 6602.

It says buildings.

All right.

And uh the decrease is going from $80,614 to $10,000.

I'm assuming that that reduction is due to the visitor center.

It is the majority.

Okay.

The building that we're in requires very few repairs.

Right.

It it's it's almost maintenance-free.

We did have to go in and upgrade some restrooms because they had gotten in bad shape.

And the public comes in there for public hearings and then we go, but the majority was for the visitor center.

And also electricity is being reduced by 114,000.

That's line item 6494, I'm assuming that's also the visitor center.

So you've you've taken all these costs associated with the visitor centers out of uh next year's fiscal budget for community development.

Correct.

That would be true also for line items 6612 and 6616, which would be repairs and mechanical plumbing.

I'm thinking that's a visitor center.

Yes, sir.

And some of that, some of that has to do with the elevator maintenance and things like that.

We don't have an elevator in our building.

Exactly.

Um that's eliminated, I'm assuming that's associated with all of that will be going to the business.

Lawn care, same thing.

Same thing.

Yes, right.

Um remember, Councilman Tesdale, that was pushed over to Jamie, but he eliminated the majority of that as well, too.

Right.

Um, Jerry, on on line item under services and charge is um under account 6602 buildings, there's a grant, grant 200.

Is that that was $10,000 that we got for the uh old brick house?

And then we had to do a uh match of 10,000.

So if we're not doing the you know, the discussion was is it really worth doing a $10,000 grant if it's gonna cost us $200,000 to repair the building right now?

It just seems like that.

I was just curious what that was.

Okay, that's all I have.

Let me start at the other end here.

Mr.

Schumacher, you kind of quiet.

Oh, thank you.

Thank you.

Mr.

Glavin, anything.

So uh we talked earlier about uh your permitting fees, all that stuff seems to be in line with other cities or municipalities.

Um are there any other um elements of development that we need to start looking at?

I've attended some of the DRC meetings uh to go through the the requirements in in the one area that and uh and I think it's in our ordinance, so you can clarify this.

Uh but as I see some of these new developments going in in different areas, it it seems to be ambiguous sometimes of the developer being required to uh put in sidewalks or it's optional or anything like that.

Should we move to make that part of the ordinance?

And the reason I say that, I'm working with I got a lunch later on this week uh by a contractor that um that's what he does.

He puts in uh sidewalks and he plans out sidewalk projects.

But uh if we had it in our ordinance uh that the developer, if he's along a uh public roadway, is required to put this infrastructure in the sidewalks.

Uh is is that a requirement in certain areas, all areas, or is that optional?

No, the sidewalks are required, whether it's commercial or whether it's uh now there are some exceptions in there, and the the issue with the Hawk Creek, for example, uh, you know, the ordinance says that they're supposed to be four feet in width, but it also says that if there's something about the topo that creates a problem, then we have the right to reduce that width.

So what happened out there is that the developer proposed to uh fill in the ditch out there and make it four feet, and Christy was there with me, she said absolutely not.

So what we did, we agreed to adjust it, which the code gives us the authority.

Right.

So, Director, are you telling me, and I'm going to give an example, Brody Road or Brazier Road, if there's a development that goes in on Brazier or Brody there and they have the entrance going into their development, or are they required to put sidewalks on the main road that it that is accessing their neighborhood?

Yes, sir, they are.

Okay.

That that doesn't seem to be always the case.

I may be wrong, and and I'll I'll do some more research.

The only the only time that I'm aware of that sidewalk now, if it's a street that does not have sidewalks on it right now, and somebody comes in and builds one house there, uh, you know, like some in field stuff, we don't require that.

But if it's a new subdivision coming in or a new commercial development coming in, they're supposed to put in sidewalks.

And and your office would monitor that?

Yeah.

The only the only exception I'm aware of with that were some houses that were built on Wetzel.

There was nine houses that were built on Wetzel, and that's what made us start putting in the requirement that you don't get a certificate of occupancy until the sidewalks are in that property that was developed on that uh east side of Wetzel there.

Okay.

Um I've looked through and I I got to take out of your uh budget here.

I gotta take out of what you were expending for the visitor center, right?

Because this included last year when we were comparing last year's budget to this year's, it includes what you were expending for the visitor center in here, is it not like electricity and some of those things?

Yeah, uh Diana worked with us to do the best we could to try to calculate what the percentage of it was that was being used for the visitor center.

And I mean it's a projection based on history, you know.

Yeah, I I did a down in dirty uh just calculation.

Diana, you might be able to help me what that number looks like, somewhere around 900,000.

I just went through it and I think it's probably pretty close.

So in here, when you initially look at it, it says there's a difference of uh 1,311.

But when you take the visitor center out of this uh the equation, it it's probably more like 400 and 450,000, 470,000 somewhere in that range?

That'd be correct.

I mean, shotgun, I don't need to know to the penny.

I just want to make sure when I look at the difference, I'm looking at the right difference.

Right.

That's that's what I gave y'all in the beginning.

Yep.

The uh the 547,000 547,368 is what we're left with after salaries come out, and that's after the visitor center uh cost have been removed already.

And then again, when we deduct the 378 for the things that we can't adjust, it it leaves us with the 160.

Thank you, Director.

Where does the fees for tree mitigation go?

What item is that it the tree uh it's in tree the tree bank.

Yes.

The the revenues that we receive from the developers is in revenue.

6254.

All right, but so that's in it's in the revenue, it's in the revenue.

We budgeted at zero and you gave you the account where the running total is.

Um what is that amount uh that we three thousand four hundred and twenty.

I understood.

But what we put a cost per tree or something like that when we are we keeping up with the actual cost and inflation of those numbers, or uh do we just set it at an amount?

I'm just asking the question.

We worked with uh the consulting arborist to come up with it, and it's uh two times the cost of the tree.

Uh two times cost of tree.

So as those numbers increase, it's tied in to the actual cost of the two times.

It's not a set fee per tree at this in in the ordinance, it just says two times the cost of a tree to replace.

That that would include not only the tree itself, but the maintenance of the tree for the establishment period.

Here's my question to you.

As we budget it this year, did we take that in consideration that the cost of of those trees may have increased, or we just used kind of last year or a number?

I I don't know.

I don't recall.

We don't budget revenue for tree mitigation.

Understood.

So it who budgets the revenue for tree mitigation?

No one.

We recognize it before the council and do it at that point in time with the budget amendment.

So the money in the line item is what has been received to date and not spent.

So we do periodic budget amendments as we get okay.

I'm I'm with you.

The answer might.

All right.

But we have to budget an amount.

So we okay.

Well you just answered a question there.

So we have a expense to plant the trees from the money that we already received.

Okay.

That's all we want to do.

Yeah.

I got you.

We don't necessarily tie it to any department as offsetting expenses.

It's just a revenue number that may increase or or decrease, and then we have access to go replant or reforce it.

It's like $74,000.

$73,000.

$420 is what's in there, right?

But it basically washes itself out, right?

No?

Okay.

That's why I'm asking these questions.

So if you built a neighborhood and you had to pay us $15,000 in tree mitigation, we would recognize $15,000 in revenue, and then this tree line would increase by $15,000.

So it would go from, I'm just saying $75,000 to $90.

And then it stays at that $90 until he expends it, and it rolls over every year until it's zero.

Okay.

And that money can't be spent at the ordinance is specific.

It can only be spent for mitigation trees and only after the council votes to release those trees.

So I got you.

So the revenues over here for tree mitigation in the revenue account, the expenses over here in your community development account, and based on the activity with developers, that we do budget amendments for the revenue.

Do we do a corresponding one for the expense?

And so you the expense that you came up with the $74,000 for this coming year, you base that on what?

That $74,000 that's in there is money that has been paid in by developers who did not want to raise.

So it's corresponding with what we started with revenue for years.

The two other line items, though, that you may be talking about.

Yeah, we'll try and then the other one is tree cutting, which we use to maintain trees around town or remove trees around town.

Okay.

Right.

You answer the dynamic, so it's it's kind of wherever we're starting with, it's it's there, and then as we get new money, both accounts are adjusted accordingly.

Okay.

Sorry, I got a long way around of answering that question, but I need it to kind of satisfy my understanding of it.

Thank you.

That's all I got.

Outstanding, Mr.

Glavin.

Mr.

Creel?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

So and I understand what you were saying earlier about subdivisions and growth.

It's got to be balanced growth.

I I I get it.

Um, you know, based on research, a subdivision is only as good as about 15 years before it actually starts costing you money.

So then that way hopefully you can sustain uh revenue until it you have to start repairs and infrastructure.

So um but you have to have balance as well.

So I uh with the with the commercial.

Um real quick, code enforcement money.

So where where does the code enforcement uh expense in revenue or not revenue, I guess reimbursement?

Is it in somewhere in here?

Uh it goes back in the general fund.

But you're talking about the money that uh we used to the clear properties?

Correct.

Yeah, it's in land clearance in here.

Um count number.

It's gonna be contracts.

6684.

6684 is land clearance, and that's where we reduced it from 90 to 75 for the upcoming year.

From from six sixty to seventy five revenue account?

No.

We uh we reduced it from ninety thousand down to seventy-five thousand, so we reduced it by fifteen for the upcoming year.

Jamie, sometimes you have to take tree cutting and land clearance together, and we move the money between the two.

So you can see that tree cutting went up and land clearance went up as well to the prior year.

Um, but we we move the money around depending on where it's needed.

But only the land clearance ends up on your property tax roll as a special assessment.

Okay.

So so we didn't decrease, we increased land clearance.

Right.

We increased both of them.

Okay.

Uh now I think it's a year-to-year two.

Sometimes we have to add more money to it through the year.

I mean, there was one year where we hit like 130,000 in land clearance.

Yeah, and that's all code enforcement, correct?

Yeah.

All right.

So but if I correct me if I'm wrong, I think you said tree cutting and tree maintenance had to equal 100,000.

It has to, yeah.

We have to, in order to re uh continue to be in tree city USA, which we get some benefits from that.

Uh we have to spend at least $2 per capita, meaning if we've got $50,000 people, we've got to spend $100,000.

So that's why I left that in there to make sure we meet that minimum.

All right.

So then the land clearance was an increase.

And do we know year to date what we've spent so far on land clearance?

I've got it.

This is as of yesterday.

We've we've actually cleared $37,334, but we've got some encumbrances of over $19,000.

So it would be $37,334 plus $19,028 right now.

But I just had to transfer some money into there because we've got a house to tear down that's going to cost $10,000.

We got another one that's going to be coming to y'all next week that's going to cost more money.

So is there a shot we may get some money in August for people paying late taxes?

There's a chance.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um actually you have more than that.

You have $28,000 in encumbrances.

So pretty much he spent his whole budget of $70,000 for land.

That includes the the 10th, the $9,000 for the house that we just processed today.

Yeah.

That's why that went up from 18 to 28, yeah.

Okay.

And so encumbrances still we still have to pay.

Yeah, that means that probably a requisition has been issued for it, and uh we're just waiting on the job to be done before it gets gets paid and moved over to actually actually extended.

Yes.

Okay.

And then we still and I know this to be in a dead horse.

Where are we with the collections from the totals from like 2016 and uh have we gotten any back?

Well, I'm trying to get some information from the county on some of that collections because we recently had some state of Mississippi, some parcels that have been in the state of Mississippi's name that had large dollar amounts be paid, but when it gets paid, we didn't receive any backup on it to assign it to the parcels and to prove the amount that was paid, and we're trying to get that rectified.

Um at the end of June, we got almost $260, $260,000 in payments for late taxes.

Right.

And penalties, and we're trying to get breakdowns to see how much, because that one person had like six or eight parcels.

Right.

The bad part about that is that's you we we can't count that as revenue because we've already spent that money.

We're just hoping to get paid back.

We each wanted reimbursed, that's correct.

Right.

Um, and then you said the back bay mission, you'd cut them from fifty to uh twenty-five.

What the other fifty thousand that you're losing in professional service, what's that?

Is that we pay David Wheeler, he does title opinions for us.

Hang on just a minute, I've got it due.

Yeah, no, I was just looking you're decreasing to $75,000 with $25,000 of it being back bay mission.

$75,000 of that was uh for Frank Genser.

Uh you know, we projected that that's what it was going to cost because he was doing consulting work for us not only on the old brick house, but also on the lighthouse, because we got repairs to make over there too.

But out of that other professional services, we also pay the pest control, we pay our court reporter that does our minutes for planning commission public hearings, uh, and David Wheeler, who does uh uh all of our uh re a lot of our research on uh title opinions.

Okay.

Perfect.

That's all I have, thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Neil.

Uh Mr.

Marshall.

Mr.

Gray, you're up.

Uh-huh.

I'll go back to I'll go back to Mr.

Shoemaker then.

Anything?

Good deal.

All right.

Jerry, anything you want to say in closing?

Uh Mr.

Weaver, anything, Diana?

Last comments.

Okay, good deal.

During these, I'm just gonna say during these, as you take a look, yes, we're looking at all the revenue, but we have cut all capital expenses.

The only vehicles that we are purchasing at all across the entire city are three police cars.

That is it.

So I asked y'all, as we come to y'all at revenue generating opportunities, we need to take a hard look because I've got several positions, several overtime, and several vehicles that need to be replaced throughout the city.

And I know we have to be able to balance that between all of it, but that's why we have to take these tough decisions, and I got it.

And uh we don't take this lightly.

None of us do in this room.

So we have worked diligently, and we've been working on this this time since I believe March, Miss Thornton, if I'm correct.

We've started in March.

May who's next?

Who's next week?

Sorry?

Next week.

Who's next week?

Next week will be engineering, public works, and water and sewer.

Water and two.

And then nine departmentals come with.

I think there are non-departmental, if I remember correctly, is around the 14th.

But yeah, be the third uh third meeting in August, which I think will be August 18th.

I think on the budget calendar, it's actually two dates, August 18th and then August 25th.

Typically, what we've done is uh listen and had discussion on the 18th, and and then the following meeting pretty much made our decision on and who will receive what allocation.

And I'm coming.

I made this request to you, and I'm gonna go ahead and let it out with the colleagues here.

Um August 4th next week, we finish up with the departments uh with with uh public works and engineering and water and sewer.

What I've asked Councilman Tisdale is if we could possibly have since we will have all of the budget for departments and um revenues, hopefully maybe the sixth and or the thirteenth, we could have a meeting where we can everybody can go in by lie item, line item, line item, department department, and ask all questions once we have everything the whole bottle of wax.

So just to throw that out there, I've asked uh Councilman Tisdale to consider that.

All right, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.

Mr.

Creel is there a second?

Second.

Uh Mr.

Nail, any discussion?

All in favor.

We are adjourned.

Thank you.

Just a reminder.