Thank you.

I don't think that many kids in my son's school even do it.

Get your head out of the cloud.

Talk to your kid about baby.

So much for joining.

Leave I'm gonna have you second my motion.

Is it okay?

Good evening, everyone.

All right.

Thank you so very much for joining us here in person, and for those who are watching us online for the September 22nd business meeting of the Charlotte City Council.

I'd like to get started with first our introductions around the diets, and we'll start with us, Miss Ajmeira.

Good evening and welcome, Dimple Ajmer at large.

Good evening, I'm Dr.

Victoria Wattlington, and I have the pleasure of serving you as a council member at large.

Good evening, Luana Mayfield, Councilmember at large.

Edwin Peacock, District 6.

Ed Drags, District 7.

Alphonse Graham, District Two.

Marcus Jones, City Manager.

Good evening, everyone.

James Mitchell at large.

Renee Johnson, District 4.

Anthony Phelps, interim city attorney.

Good evening, Stephanie Kelly, City Clerk.

Before we move to the invocation this evening, I'd like to recognize that tonight marks 30 days since Irena was tragically killed on one of our trained systems.

And that tragedy can sometimes good people do not really actually have the ability to become what who they are.

So I'd like to say before, as our invocation tonight, that we take a moment of silence and just remember Irena has been a part of us and what we can do better to make it better.

So if you would bow your heads for us for a moment.

And so with that, Mr.

Jones.

Do we have anyone?

Oh, Miss Marie, thank you very much.

Good evening.

Thank you.

Let's lead us in the way of consent agenda Q's an A's.

Thank you.

And I've had an opportunity to speak with several of you this evening, but at this time I'd like to take any other questions that you have or information on the consent items.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Marie, you I do appreciate you giving the response, but I do want us to highlight 36, 37, and 38 for a question that I have as well as this question later, but specifically around 36, 37, and 38, Mayor.

All right.

So Miss Mayfield, let me make sure that I've got this.

I hear some, I hear music.

Again, if you would repeat that you wanted to have a consent.

Separate discussion for 36, 37, and 38.

36.

But I can speak 37 and 38, but I can't speak to them at one moment at one time.

Okay.

Would you go ahead and want to do that now?

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

So, Marie, thank you.

I asked the question because for number 3637 and third 38, which are pretty much thornwater repair and improvement projects.

I noticed that one particular bid better on site development as we what we're looking at tonight is approving each of these individually with the same company.

So I was wondering regarding how are we looking at bids to try to have as equitable of disbursement of tax dollars as many opportunities as possible, knowing that we do generally look at lowest and most responsive with the focus being on lowest bid.

So I did want to have a chance for clarification on that.

Thank you.

And since this is a uh construction contract, to your point, yes, ma'am, the law requires us to take the lowest responsive bidder.

Um stormwater has done several things, like to you said to mix up the opportunities to be able to, I shouldn't say mix up, to variate the opportunities to make smaller bids and things to have opportunities for different vendors to bid.

But for this, like you mentioned, it was three separate opportunities to bid, and for each one of those separately, that vendor was the lowest responsible bidder, responsible bidder.

So, Mr.

Manager of which I'll when we have our chance for council comments, I would say I think I have we have an opportunity to speak with the attorney's office.

We're working on a separate issue, but when we look at most responsive, and when we're looking at, especially if the difference is under 200,000, what is that breakdown actually look like?

Because if we have an opportunity for some of these partners where they potentially in what is submitted to council a higher wage per se, then I think that to me falls more in responsive versus the focus being on lowest bidder, because when we look at the totality of just these three items, one of them is over 4,500, another one's over 4,700, and the third is over 2,200.

So I appreciate the fact that they submitted a lowest bid, but you also know I questioned over the years if there are amendments.

What do what is the tracking on those dollar amounts?

And are we do we have an opportunity to imagine responsiveness in a different way to actually address the needs in community?

Thank you, Marie.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

All right, thank you very much.

Are there any other questions regarding the consent agenda items for a separate vote?

Hearing none.

All in may I have a motion to approve consent agenda items 24 through 52, including those that Miss Mayfield um addressed.

Some circuit have a motion and a second.

Any further discussion?

Hearing none, all in favor, please raise your hands.

All right, thank you very much.

Anyone opposed?

Thank you.

So before we move to our next step, I want to go ahead and begin to recognize that we have some awards and recognition today.

Um, one of the very first ones I'd like to wish a happy new year to our Jewish community and any one of those that are celebrating Russia Shina coming up.

But also, in addition, we have a proclamation on National Suicide Prevention Month, as well as a proclamation for Ms.

Johnson Awareness.

Concussion awareness.

So we'll start with Mr.

Peacock for the suicide reference and Ms.

Johnson and follow back.

Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Um, ladies and gentlemen, uh, this joint proclamation, whereas suicide and suicide attempts affect the health and the well-being of families, friends, loved ones, co-workers in the community, and whereas suicide especially affects our young people, with suicide being the second leading cause of death for people ages 10 to 34, for black for young black males age 10 to 24, and on college campuses.

It is also the number one cause of death for police officers not in the line of duty, and whereas, according to the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, suicide is the 11th leading cause of death in the U.S., and it is the most preventable kind of death and almost any positive action that may save a life.

Half of those who died by suicide had a diagnosable mental health condition at the time of their death, and research showed that 90% experience symptoms.

And whereas in 2023, 49,316 Americans died by suicide, with men being 3.8 times more likely to do so than women, with firearms accounting for 55.36 percent of all suicide deaths.

Whereas the stigma around mental health is the number one reason people won't seek help and fuel suicide rates, suicide is a global health crisis, not a personal character flaw.

And whereas mental health conditions and suicidality work against suicide prevention by discouraging persons at risk from seeking life-saving help, it further traumatizes survivors of suicides loss and people with lived experience of suicide, and whereas organizations like the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, the Wellness Action Recovery, Mental Health America, and others continue to work to help those suffering in silence and prevent suicide through advocacy, education, and action.

Now, therefore, we, by Alexander Lyles, the Mayor of Charlotte, Mark Jurrell, Chair of the Mecklenburg County Board of Commissioners do hereby proclaim the month of September 2025 as the National Suicide Prevention Month in Charlotte and Mecklenburg and urge all citizens to honor this observance.

As witnessed by our hands here at the official seals of the City of Charlotte and Mecklenburg County.

Thank you, Mrs.

Mayor.

Thank you.

Mr.

Peacock.

Ms.

Johnson.

Thank you so much.

So as most or many of you know that I'm an advocate for brain injury survivors, and we do recognize brain injury in March, and thank you for that opportunity for the past five years.

This month is actually concussion awareness month.

And many of us don't associate concussion as a brain injury, but they are a brain injury and they can be life-changing.

And in this city, I think it's important, and I've said this before that we are leaders in recognizing it and the awareness with the sports teams that we have, the Panthers, right?

The Hornets and the Charlotte FC.

And actually, if you know Del Earnhardt Jr., he retired because of a concussion, because of concussion.

So Keith Lamont Scott, his wife was saying he has a TBI.

So it's up to all of us to be aware of that, because uh one on four individuals have suffered a head injury.

So I'm honored today to read this.

Um and I would be presenting it to Tracy Suggs with Protect Your Skull Organization, but he was coming at 6.30.

So because we normally start this meeting at 6.30.

So I apologize for that.

Whereas concussions are a form of mild traumatic brain injury, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, CBC, estimates that more than 2.8 million Americans sustain a TBI each year, with concussions making up the majority of these injuries.

And whereas an estimated 5.3 million Americans live with a long-term disability related to brain injury, and concussions can lead to persistent symptoms such as headaches, memory loss, difficulty concentrating, depression, and an increased risk of suicide.

And whereas children and adolescents are particularly high risk, with the CDC estimating that nearly 15% of high school students report at least one sports or recreation-related concussion each year, and multiple concussions may increase the likelihood of long-term neurological and psychological effects.

And whereas research shows that concussions affect not only athletes, but also survivors of falls, motor vehicle crashes, domestic violence, and military service, with concussions recognized as a signature injury of service members returning from combat.

And whereas studies published in the Journal of American Medical Association confirm that individuals with a history of concussion or mild brain injury may have twice the risk of suicide compared to those without such injuries, underscoring the urgent need for prevention, early diagnosis, and support.

And whereas raising public awareness of concussion as traumatic brain injury is essential for prevention, timely medical care, and long-term recovery, as well as for supporting the families and caregivers of those impacted.

Now, therefore, we by Lyles, Mayor of Charlotte, and Chair Mark Jurell, Chair of the Mecklenburg County Board of Commissions, do hereby proclaim September 19, 2025 as National Concussion Awareness Day in Charlotte in Mecklenburg County, and urge all of our citizens to honor this observance.

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Ms.

Johnson.

Um I have also the opportunity to note that we have a former elected elected official that was a part of this body in the last row in the middle of the um dais over here.

Nancy Carter, please raise your hand and be recognized.

Anytime that you're ready to come back, just let us know.

Are you still still an elected official?

You're still elected to as a soil and water.

And I think that we're I'm gonna talk about that a little bit later on this evening, but you know, you'll always be just Nancy for me.

So thank you very much.

So let her know.

All right, I'm sorry.

Mr.

Suggs is here with Protect Your Skull, so can I give me one?

Oh yes, Mr.

Sud, she just wanna come down.

Thank you.

So now I want to miss Johnson a chance to get seated.

Thank you.

Thank you.

We will now move on to our public forum.

I'd like to thank all of you for joining us, and on behalf of the entire city council, I'd like to ask that all speakers and audience members be civil and courteous in their use of language.

Speakers are encouraged to address counsel and should refrain from responding to audience members.

Likewise, audience members should be courteous of each speaker and not yell out or interrupt them.

We want to ensure that everybody has a chance to be heard.

As a reminder for council, rule 4B allows for any issue that is raised by a speaker at the forum to be considered as an agenda item for the purposes of questions and discussion, but not for action.

City staff will follow up with our speakers' concerns that and then provide counsel with additional context as appropriate.

Council can also discuss or ask for follow in follow following information during the discussion time at the end of our meeting.

We also have packets from the staff on the public forum speaker topics as well as updates from staff on actions taken to address issues brought up by in public in the public forum.

I would ask each council member to refer to those packets that they have as well.

And since they are more than 10 speakers, each speaker will have two minutes to address counsel.

So thank you for being present and coming to speak with us.

And I am going to call the first speaker, who is Anthony Abraham.

Mr.

Abraham.

All right.

If he comes in, we'll follow up.

Our next speaker is Kenya Baker.

All right.

Our next speaker is Carson Cohn.

Mr.

Kahn, you have two minutes.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Hi.

I would like to use the great opportunity of speaking to discuss three opportunities of improvement for Charlotte City Council.

First, I ask that the phone numbers of City Council meeting speakers, if they're not already, no longer be published on the agenda without our consent.

The government places limits on businesses to protect consumers' contact information, such as the tele telephone consumer protection act.

So why then should the government itself be allowed to share such information without its residents' permission?

Secondly, it is my understanding through discussion, observation, and experience that council meeting speakers generally prepare their speeches without being told that the three minutes they would be allowed to speak to would be allowed to speak will be cut short if a certain minimum number of speakers are on the agenda for a meeting.

Please work with the city clerk's office for clarity on this issue.

Lastly, I asked that City Council enable for its advisory board members the right to free speech.

Which is currently discouraged by your code of ethics for them, which states to only include wording that is essential, quote.

Volunteers' chief responsibility is to advise rather than to advocate when the position is contrary to a council policy.

Unquote.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you very much, Mr.

Our next speaker is John Williams.

So my name is John Williams, and uh I'm actually a third generation Charlatan, maybe one of the only ones in this room, possibly.

And uh my grandparents came here in 1951 seeking a better life.

And uh just like Irina Zarutska, and just like uh the family of four-year-old Jace Edwards, whose tragic murders of Shook Our City.

Uh their deaths and so many others are why I'm speaking today.

Uh my grandparents ran a small store in the Hoskins neighborhood until the 1970s, and my grandmother was a victim of an armed robbery.

Um the attacker didn't just rob the store, he locked my grandmother in a freezer and then proceeded to grab a fire axe.

And he would have been or she would have been killed, um, but the neighborhood kids came in and rushed in and chased the guy off.

Um so the point there is that she provide or she survived because of community.

Um neighbors looking out for one another.

And uh that's the only way we can get out of this crisis, and and it is a crisis.

And the the kind of jovial nature of these meetings is kind of off-putting because this is serious.

Um, so I'm proposing three things to fix what's going on in our city.

CMPD and our courts are dysfunctional.

Um we all know this.

It's the elephant in the room.

Um, so I'm proposing three things.

Uh one is we need to partner with Atrium and or Novant uh to build a new psychiatric care facility.

Um Carlos Brown should have never been on the streets.

Um everybody knows that.

And the lack of psychiatric care resources is why he was out on the streets, among many other things.

And we need to address that.

Um we need to do a serious recruitment effort for CNPD.

Um veteran officers don't want to work here because they know that the laws aren't being enforced.

And that's the bottom line.

People are getting let out on plea deals.

They're going repeat violent offenders, getting out, doing the exact same thing over and over again.

And we also need to provide supplementary grant funding to the DA's office.

Thank you very much for your remarks.

I think we'll hear more about that as we continue through the review and study for what we can do.

All right, our next speaker is Wes Alonga Wellner.

Here, thank you.

Awama Chamber.

Oh, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

If you don't mind if you'll just sit there, we'll have um Chandler Bouzique come up next.

Thank you.

Sorry.

Good evening, Council.

My name is Chandler Bozak.

I live and work in Uptown Charlotte.

I've lived here for about a year, and over the last year I choose to commute to work.

I've continued to see the homelessness and violence continue to tick up.

I've seen people getting in fights on the street.

I've seen people struggling.

And I myself am struggling as well because I go to take my dog out this morning at 6 a.m.

And there's a gentleman just with a flashlight trying to figure out what's in the bushes.

He has a hood on.

It's very off-putting.

This is something that I deal with every single day.

And so my question for you guys is how can I as a citizen help to work alongside you guys to make this city truly a better and safer place?

Because I think that's what we all truly want to do is come together as a community to really make an improvement.

And I am from Greenville, South Carolina.

And when I was in high school, buildings were condemned, no one wanted to go down there.

And the mayor truly chose to dedicate time and effort to revitalize downtown.

And it's getting international attention for a place to be.

I want Charlotte to be that too.

So if you guys could help me as a citizen to try to work with you guys, and then also maybe we can come up with something that we can publicly have long term for a plan.

Thank you.

Chandler, thank you very much for coming down to speak to us.

We are working very hard on this, and sometimes it's not visible what we're doing, but I want you to know that this is something that has been going on for several months now, and we're trying to determine how can we best serve people that are homeless.

It's a very difficult proposition, and we've gone to many, many places to see what they do, and we're just trying to make sure that places like what you're talking about at your home and your house, that it's going to be something that we can do that's permanent and really makes a difference.

We're not shorthanding this.

This is all about what can we do, and I really appreciate it when communities or citizens like you say we want to pitch in to help because that makes all the difference in the world.

So just continue to watch us, continue to come down and speak with us about this.

It's important.

We all know that.

So thank you very much for being here today.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you.

All right, so now we'll go to Wes.

I mean, just West and Wes, please come on down.

Good afternoon, and thank you for allowing the time to be here and listen to me.

My name is Wes Longer.

I represent Rangewater Real Estate.

We are a local apartment owner and developer here in Charlotte.

We've developed 10 apartment projects, nearly 3,000 apartment units.

Our most recent projects is a Kingsman located in Lower South End along the Woodlawn Road corridor on the corner of Nations Crossings in Nexmoor.

Since we've broken ground and so we're over our units four months ago, we've experienced major incidences on site in the neighborhood.

So talking to neighbors, we witnessed multiple shootings, multiple overdoses, two dry bars this year.

There's an arson on site.

That we paid for.

There's an attempted arson in the church next door.

There's been continuous open drug use and prostitution in the neighborhood.

So to combat this, we have on-site security.

We're paying $20,000 a month for the security.

We've offered a free unit for CMPD courtesy officer on site.

We've worked with our neighbors to prevent this violence, drug use, and crime that's ongoing in our neighborhood.

So my request is we're concerned local business owners.

We can't succeed, and the city doesn't succeed.

We have the same shared interests, and we want to work with you guys.

So my question to you is how can we work together to relocate and house this unhoused population that's going on in our area?

Thank you, guys.

Thank you very much.

Um as I said, we really do want to work with you, and I appreciate very much that you give us an idea of what it's like and begin to move forward with it.

We have some ideas, and um working with the county, I hope that we will be able to um move forward as quick more quickly than not, especially since we have such interest in our community.

So thank you very much for tonight and your remarks.

Our next um speaker is Kevin Sulla.

Justin.

Justin War Oh, Justin Worah.

Thank you, number seven.

Justin.

Good evening, Council.

My name is Justin.

I am 21 years old and born in Charlotte, and I'd like to talk about red lights.

In the two weeks since I signed up to be a speaker here, my girlfriend was hit by a driver running a red light.

And that just adds urgency to this.

I believe red light cameras should be in stated with certain limitations to make them both constitutional and protective of privacy.

The simplest solution would be to just add red light cameras at intersections, but that might lead to more people speeding to try and make it before it turns red, which would just displace one issue with another.

To combat this, when the light turns yellow, the camera should start recording and pick up anyone speeding.

In order to make it constitutional, you could have one individual who, if they were paid even $25 an hour, all you need to do is catch one person every two hours, find $50, something to make it a deterrent.

But on the one occasion that I uh for any law enforcement officers, this was in 1930, ran red light.

It would not be debilitating to pay as a one-off accident.

I have almost been T-boned three times, and my father has been T-boned, not just by a car, but by a cyclist.

And it's it's not limited just to cars.

I've seen so many things change in the city for better and for worse.

But even Massachusetts born individuals have commented on the abysmal state of the drivers here, which should say a lot.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

And lastly, I'd like to add on to what Ms.

Chandler, I believe, said, and just state that it is very important that we not just displace the homeless individuals, but try to remedy the problem at its source.

Thank you very much for your time.

Thank you very much.

I hope that your girlfriend will be healed.

Thank you.

Um we will determine how we can study these issues and see where we can land.

So we'll have someone talk with you about that and get that information to you.

All right.

So finally I get to go to number eight.

Kevin Celia.

Celia.

Kevin?

I think we got an UK into safety.

Okay.

Um, our next speaker is Quandella Walker.

Good afternoon.

Good afternoon.

Hi.

My name is Kwandela Walker.

Um, I've been raised in Charlotte since I was four years old.

Prior to coming to Charlotte, I was born in Jersey City, New Jersey, where I was um in pre-K school, and I was wrapped up with a rope thrown in the closet and with duct tape over my mouth by a teacher.

I came to Mecklenburg County, and I was placed in a behavioral emotional handicap program.

During that time that I was in their program, I was attending Nation 4 Elementary School.

They had trailers on the outside for the children that was in the program like me.

At the time that I was placed in a program, they had timeout rooms look like jail cells.

I'm here to speak up for those who are disabled, like me.

I was diagnosed with PTSD, severe depression, and anxiety.

I've been homeless, sleeping in my car for the past few years, on and off outside of my imprisonment.

I have two daughters.

I share with everybody that I put God first in all of my walks because I do.

During my time of imprisonment in McDowell County, I was held on federal hold.

I had a dental infection.

I have four root canals that I needed to be done.

I had to get four extractions.

I almost died.

I have severe nerve damage now.

Not only have I battling mental health, but I'm also battling physical health.

I'm here today because I know that it is hard when you have an income of 90 and 73 a month.

You cannot get housing.

I apply for two apartments after being released, and I was denied.

I don't have enough income, and I do have a representative pay.

But for the people I'm in front of that have authority and have the right to help.

We need you.

Thank you very much for We need you because I feel like in every way possible when I was approved for disability.

And God knows, I should have been given a Section A or House and Authority voucher.

And I also do feel like every ability deserves a doorstep.

You can give us a check, but you can't give us ability.

We have children suit.

Yes.

Thank you, Miss Walker, for that.

I'm gonna ask Mr.

Um Chanda if you would talk with her a little bit more about what the opportunities are that we can address.

Thank you.

So if you would join him.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

All right.

Our next speaker is Hallie Pester.

Good evening.

My name is Hallie Pister, and I live in NOTA, and I just moved to Charlotte too, uh, five months ago.

Um August 22nd, Irina Zaruska was brutally murdered on the blue line by a mentally ill, unhoused man.

While this attack was not an everyday occurrence, feeling unsafe on the Lynx line is, especially for women such as myself.

In my five short months living in Charlotte, I cannot even count the number of times I've been sexually harassed by unhoused men on the train.

Not to mention the various times I have watched unhoused people on the train do things such as begin screaming, throwing trash, and have mental breakdowns.

I once watched a man take his clothes off on the train, throw them at other passengers, then get off the train at CTC station and proceed to hit a woman on the platform in the face.

I have always had to be cautious on the train.

But now, because of what happened to Irena, I can never sit on the train again with a stranger behind me.

From now on, I must always stand with my back against the door and pepper spray in my pocket.

Security on our links line platforms and trains are essential for helping deter extreme situations like Irina's and everyday occurrences like mine.

We need security on every train at all times, or at the very least after dark.

I understand this will cost money, which is often in short supply.

But if we need more money to fund the Lynx line, why are we using an honor system for the ticketing on the train?

There have been times I have gone a month or longer without having a security officer approach me on the train asking to verify I've paid my fare.

How much money are we losing by not ensuring every rider on the line has paid for their ticket?

I want to close by reiterating a statistic that is not talked about enough.

Violent crimes like what happened to Irena are on the decline in Charlotte.

We have our city council and CMPD to thank for this.

But when faced with a setback like this murder, we need to double down and continue fighting to make the city safer.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Um, so we'll go and continue for our next speaker is Jacob Di Pasquale.

Good evening, Council members.

The supreme rule of government is to aim society towards the good.

And it is good to do justice, and it is evil to do injustice.

When someone of the Carlos Brown's repute is arrested for a misdemeanor, and it's a clear repeat offender, he should not be let out of jail before trial.

When criminals continue to break the law, the gavel of justice ought to come down hard.

Yet our justice system continues to process and release career criminals.

This is not an indictment of CMPD.

This is an indictment of city leadership.

Thomas Aquinas teaches that laws are to be directed toward the common good.

Human law, the law that you are in charge of legislating, is to be in accordance with natural law.

And natural law dictates from God that we ought to do good and avoid evil.

And this principle is universally true.

It is not good to release felons onto the streets for them to commit murder.

It is good to guard the citizens and your care.

An ordinant compassion for criminals is an injustice to the afflicted.

The media report for homicides in Charlotte is 42.

This number should be close to zero.

Less than 10% of the city's budget is spent on justice and public safety.

If you cannot keep the innocent safe, your other programs will bear no fruit.

I understand there have been talks of reforming reforming the justice system.

Which is good.

I am asking you to do something different.

Start prosecuting felons to the fullest extent of the law and massively increase the budget of law enforcement.

We keep being taxed, yet our city continues to be unsafe.

Strong enforcement of the law deters criminals from breaking the law.

This does not mean we shouldn't love our enemies.

We are called the kindness, but we are also called to do justice.

God bless and thank you very much.

Thank you.

Good evening, Mayor.

Good evening, Council.

It's great to be here.

Um it's great to hear us talking about security and safety in our community.

I'm a Charlotte Tan, former CMPD officer, 14 years.

Uh just left in 2021.

And um, like I said, it's great to be here.

Uh a lot of unfortunate situations going on in a community.

And uh uh not just one group of people or agency that's gonna solve a crime issue, right?

Um, and I know that from being a police officer and from growing up in the 90s on West Boulevard.

So it's a lot of things that we can do to solve a lot of these problems.

And um I think it's more of a community issue, and us as a community needs to come together and do something about the crime, such as I did by joining a police department, stepping up, being a community reporting crime.

So I'm here on behalf of the Charlotte Mecklenburg Crime Stoppers program as a partnership with CMPD and the community to invite everyone here, including you, Mayor, Council, uh, to the Charlotte Mecklenburg Crime Stoppers 5K uh race that will be held October 4th, 2025 at 8 a.m.

at the police academy 1750 Shopton Road.

So I love to hear all the talk.

Uh let's let's put some of these plans in action, show up where it counts the most.

Um the program in the past five years uh has received over 15,556 tips, led to 820 arrests, cleared 2,154 cases, and approved 585 rewards.

So and that's from 20 civilians who aren't sworn police officers who do who don't work for the city, have everyday jobs like myself that put in the work, put in an effort to reduce crime.

So that's what it's going to take, and I appreciate this time, and I appreciate this time and I love to see everyone out October 4th at the police academy for the Crime Stoppers 5K.

Thank you very much for your service, for work that you're doing on Crime Stoppers.

That helps us a lot.

Thank you very much.

Our next speaker is Elaine Alexander.

Thank you, Charlotte City Council, for allowing me to request with urgency that you amend the overgrown vegetation ordinance by adding a height exemption for naturalistic landscapes.

I say educator because even though I do not teach in any school, I do have a classroom.

It is my small front yard in Dilworth.

It is there that science class takes place all day, every day.

Deliberately designed and attentively maintained by me, my native flower-filled yard is that rare property where one can experience an effortless education in ecology.

Situated next to a busy sidewalk, walkers often stop and express awe at the sight of hummingbirds snacking on salvia, native bumblebees buzzing about the black-eyed Susan, swarms of goldfinches feasting on code flowers, and occasionally even one of our extinct threatened monik butterflies munching on milkweed.

This on-site education shouldn't be confined to a school field trip.

It should be an experience that Charlatan should be allowed.

And yes, even motivated to enjoy in their own yards without fear of penalty.

More than 22% of our native populate pollinators risk extinction.

And one of the chief reason pollinator populations are imperiled is habitat loss.

And so I'm asking you, Mayor Lyles and City Council members to allow Charlatans to help reverse that trend.

Rather than outlawing these sanctuaries, allow us to make life better for our threatened pollinators and allow all residents to experience the wondrous education that happens when wildlife flourishes right outside our door.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Thank you for um helping us understand what we might be able to do.

And I do think that we've talked about a referral on this one already.

So just we'll keep you informed as much as we can.

Thank you very much.

Our next speaker is Stephen Mullis.

Good evening, City Council.

Thank you for giving me the time to speak.

I'm Stephen Mullis.

I work over at the AME Zion Church corporate headquarters in Charlotte, graphic designer, and do websites for uh multiple publications and departments for them.

Um I'm also a graduate of UNC Charlotte, so basically at this point a native Charlottean.

Um I have two things quickly I just wanted to address.

One is um the construction that's been going on in my property.

Um it's been the company uh on site has been the company, it's been the rosewater storm drain project.

Um there's just been a really bad experience.

Um, firstly, when they went to reinforce the house, they destroyed my fiber optic line.

I wasn't notified or anything, you know.

I was without internet for you know, day, two days.

Um, you know, I'm a graphic designer and I have a freelance, so that kind of affected me.

Um I had to reach out to the internet, repair the internet myself, have them run a brand new line.

Um, you know, I called the company on site, try to get them to take care of it for me since you know they were responsible, but they just said they look into it.

Um I just I see the infrastructure plans and y'all mentioning this company, so I'm just asking that you would just take into account, you know, the residents and put them first.

You know, I spoke with Storm Rotter, and they have helped me out with other issues, you know, so I do appreciate stormwater standing up, you know, for the citizens.

And uh my second issue is just to talk about the light rail issue uh safety.

Um I live over near Archdale and Tybola Station, and um, every time I've been on the light rail to go over there, um, it's been homelessness.

Um the elevators do not work half the time going up to the platforms.

The stairs going up to the platforms are neglected, uh rusted holes through it.

Um, and uh I've contacted cats and they've told me, you know, what they could do, but um it's just you know Charlotte used to be the small town field, but we're now a big city, and we need to, you know, start taking policies, you know, for some of the big cities.

So I propose maybe just more security on ticket checking and uh maybe like some of the big cities where they have the um the bars that you go through, maybe think about installing that to help with that.

Thank you.

Thank you very much for your suggestions.

And um I think if Alison would help out on this construction issue for you, she's coming around that way.

I think that would be very helpful.

Maybe we can do something about it immediately.

So thank you very much.

All right, so I believe that that um will now give us to Sarah Ganjay.

If I said that correctly, or if I didn't say it correctly, my apologies.

Hello, Mayor and Council.

My name is Sarah Gagnier.

I'm an associate professor of urban ecology and chair of the Department of Earth, Environmental and Geographical Sciences at UNC Charlotte.

And I am here to follow up to passionately request that you amend the nuisance vegetation ordinance for a height restriction to permit more naturalistic landscapes in Charlotte and specifically request a change referral, I think, to take action on the issue.

So I can quote some statistics as an urban ecologist, and I'll also say I'm also on the executive board of the Mecklenburg Audible and Society.

But some statistics that you may have heard.

We've lost three billion birds in North America since 1970.

And then also referencing one of the previous speakers, a recent study in science found that we've lost 22% of butterflies in the last 20 years in the United States.

And you can actually go on the New York Times article and search for Charlotte.

And I think 70% of the butterfly species in our city are declining, according to that study.

So those are bad things.

A good thing is that the primary cause of those losses are habitat loss and degradation.

And that is a good thing because we can actually do something about this.

So changing this ordinance would actually increase habitat for wildlife in the city.

There are lots of studies that show that actually mowing less and letting grass grow higher and increasing species diversity significantly increases insect abundance and diversity.

So this is a small change that we can do to massively impact wildlife populations, and that in itself will improve the quality of life of Charlatanians and all the other species in the city.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

We'll now hear from Phyllis Cappell.

Excuse me.

My apologies, please.

Ms.

Capel.

Yeah, we see the movie Creed too.

He directed that.

Please take it.

Right.

Three, two.

No, I have not.

Hello, Mayor.

Hello, City Council.

Hello.

Thank you for letting me come up here today.

Um I just wanted to present to you a proposition and a request.

Um I'm making a request tonight.

I was born and raised in Connecticut, but I've been living in Charlotte for almost 25 years.

I'm a registered nurse.

I've been a nurse for 30 years.

And I realized how did I get that way?

I attended a trade high school.

Trade high school was a high school that not only did you work towards your high school diploma, you worked towards a trade.

And you had many trades that you could select while you were in high school.

I feel as if this could possibly be a solution for a lot of our homeless kids on the streets if they had a direction where they could possibly graduate with a trade once they graduated out of high school, they could move in a possible better direction and path in life.

They're saying a lot of kids are not going to college now because of the cost and the length of time they have to spend going in that direction.

So I'm asking, can we use taxpayers' money to possibly build a trade technical high school here in Charlotte?

When I attended the high school, we had a variety of trays that were offered to the high school kids.

But Mama tricked me into becoming a nurse.

Beauty culture.

Yeah, good choice.

It was beauty culture, it was fashion design, it was carpentry, it was masonry, it was plumbing, it was electronics, it was electrical, and I don't see these types of schools here in this city.

And I wanted to, I even went to the point of getting signatures from people that said, yes, let's get this on board.

Let's help the generation to a better future.

And I even got arrested in trying to get these.

Um I hope that you I believe that the council um believes in what you've said.

I want you to know that I think it would be really helpful if you um go to the school board meetings because those are things that we can do.

Think about Central Piedmont and all of those other areas because we do want people to be able to be successful and have jobs.

All right, so our next speaker is Amber McCall Luce.

Good evening.

Thank you for the opportunity to be heard.

I'm gonna condense everything as best as possible.

And um, I've been in Charlotte 17 years.

Um I did child protective service investigations for 14 seven of them were here.

I was also a social worker at the men's shelter in Charlotte three years ago, the Charlotte um shelter run by Roof Above.

They have two shelters in Charlotte, one on Statesville Avenue, which is the one that DeMarcus is uh De Carlos, I'm sorry, was supposed to have been staying at.

I know that my son works at the airport and saw DeCarlos there along with other staff many nights uh sleeping on the benches.

So at any point in time, any of us going through the airport could have been his victim if his schizophrenia had chosen to um spiral uh well we happened to be there.

So it doesn't, it's not just narrowed down to the area, um, the mental health concerns.

When I was working in roof above, they are they uh receive hundreds of thousands of dollars in funding from Bank of America, True Lion, Lowe's, the Knights, the Hornets, etc.

They have several apartment buildings in Charlotte.

I was assigned to uh we had 200 men at Statesville, I was assigned to case manage 100 men.

We had no security, we had murderers, we had rapists, it's a low bird barrier shelter.

There's pedophiles, there's mentally ill, there's chronically physically ill people in there.

There's there's there's so much wrong.

There they could do be doing so much right, but they're not.

And I am not no longer there because um I spoke out to advocate for the staff and the men that were trying to get the services that desperately needed them to prevent some things that that can ultimately happen in our community that have happened, the tragedies that are preventable.

That's the biggest tragedy is that so many things that occur are preventable.

So in my speaking out, I was silenced.

I gave them one month notice so I could continue my rapport with the men because it took a long time to build it.

If you know anything about um mental health, um so anyway, um I'd also did CPS for the uh 2010 cat uh Chapman case that you can Google.

Um he went to mental health.

I obtained his mental health records.

I did um give them to the newspaper.

Thank you.

And so I'm I think we need to take it more seriously.

I raised four kids in Charlotte.

There's um on board with the trade schools and everything else.

Your comments to the clerk, please.

If you've got them written, if you want to provide them to the clerk, yes, who do I give them to right over here?

Thank you.

The police officer will take them.

All right, thank you very much for sharing the story.

Thank you for sharing that information in your story.

Thank you for the work that you've done.

Okay, okay.

Thank you.

Our 15th speaker is Anita Wright.

Ms.

Wright.

Okay.

Um, Ms.

Ryan, do you need some assistance?

You can go to that microphone right there.

If it's easier, right, if it's easier, right.

You can lift it up.

Yeah, would you help her with that, please?

Thank you.

A good deed for the day.

Thank you.

Uh oh, thank you for this opportunity.

Uh I wanted to share with you an incident that occurred with me on July 27th at the main terminal bus station uptown Charlotte.

I had gotten off of bus 22, uh, headed towards Charlotte.

Um headed towards First Baptist Church.

That's how I know the time frame because I was late for church that day.

And since I'm usually walking, I'm wearing pedestrian-friendly shoes.

Um I passed two security uh guards, two male suit security guards.

And uh as I was walking on Fourth Street, I trip and fell where the uh cement is cracked, and it's not level.

I trip and fell, and literally the security guards.

Uh there were young a few people there who were laudering, and uh they were yelling, hey, this lady fell, this lady fell when I fell.

I had a broken foot when I went to EMS.

I had a broken ankle when I went to EMS.

EMS.

I thought my arm, my left arm was broken because my left arm is what breaks my fall, it was not.

Again, I had the homeless people who were obviously a knee rated, obviously uh had something in their system.

I had people touching me who literally smell like urine and feces.

The security guards dismissed me.

They uh ignored me.

Uh and my opinion, uh, they were intentionally um cavalier and nonchalant.

People were yelling, this lady fell, and I was dressed for church.

So I'm curious.

Did I have to look like the stereotypical person there who is neglecting themselves?

And also there were two female security guards in the middle, and guess what?

They were laughing with the other passengers who were laughing at me as I lay down with a broken foot, a broken ankle, and I thought my arm was broken.

Eventually, eventually the two uh male guards come over.

Uh one is yelling at me, you've got to get up, you've got to get up, and guess what they did?

He said, Can we lift you up?

One of the young men who was attempting to have social conversation.

He was on one side of me, and guess what the guard did?

He just grabbed my arm and snatched it.

And I thought my arm was broken.

I requested this footage.

This is week number nine.

I do not have that footage.

Can someone tell me who can I speak with?

And I've requested it, I have emails and I have uh pictures.

Thank you.

I think that um we're gonna have um Liz.

Would you work with her to address her comments?

Lizard.

Sean.

Okay, sorry, thank you, Sean.

Um, so we'll we're gonna help.

Oh my god.

All right, if you'll just give it a moment, Miss Sean Heath is going to join you in a minute.

Okay.

Thank you for sharing your story with us.

So that's our 15th speaker for tonight's um city council um, I think for our forum.

So now we um we appreciate that.

We're going to go ahead and we're gonna move to open the public hearing on a resolution to close a portion of 31 street, 31 street.

Madam Kirk, do we have any speakers?

No, ma'am.

We have any speakers if there are no speakers.

Close the hearing.

We have a motion to close the public hearing and to adopt a resolution and close a portion of 31st Street.

Is that Miss Mayfield?

Did you approve A and B.

All right, A and B.

Is there any discussion?

Second to that.

Mr.

Drigs.

Mr.

Dregs.

Mr.

Second.

Mr.

Second, we have a second.

Yes, sorry.

Is there any discussion?

Hearing any discussion, all in favor, please raise your hands.

Anyone opposed?

I don't see anyone in opposition.

So that passes.

Our next one is a public hearing on a resolution to close a portion of alleyway off Hobbes Road.

Um, we're now gonna open.

Is there a speaker, Madam Clerk?

No, ma'am.

We don't not have any speakers.

Do I have a motion to close the public hearing and to adopt a resolution?

And 12 A and B.

Second.

We have a motion and a second.

And for A and B, any discussion?

All in favor, please raise your hand.

Anyone opposed?

All right, thank you.

Next, we're going to move to the policy section of our agenda.

City manager, do you have a report?

Yes, Mayor.

I have a brief report.

Um I I guess for the past several years we've been talking about uh public safety and uh with a great intensity of the past several months.

Uh one thing that has become very evident is that um CMPD sworn officers are in the community, and that's extremely important.

We also realize that uh it's important to have the police officers actually doing policing as opposed to some of the um jobs that are associated that what a civilian could do.

And so you may uh remember that we uh used the data from the police executive research forum recommendations as well as safe Charlotte, and we were able to free up um 30 or so vacant positions that um would have been for police officers sworn that we can use civilians.

And so you may uh remember that we uh used the data from the police executive research forum recommendations as well as Safe Charlotte, and we were able to free up um 30 or so vacant positions that um would have been for police officers sworn that we can use civilians, for example, the individual who supervised the 911 center instead of being a police captain is a uh civilian.

Uh the reason I say that is that what we've been able to do is uh utilize the uh civilians to help us have more officers uh patrolling on the on the street, and that really came to fruition a lot this weekend.

We had a uh a Panthers game where the Panthers uh won that game.

And um, the Panthers won that game.

And uh maybe what you didn't notice is that we didn't have to call back any police officers because our use of our civilian traffic control officers as well as our civilian crash investigators.

Uh you may not know many of our civilian traffic control officers, but uh but I think there's one that you know, Antoine Schofield, right?

So, what this has allowed is for some of our employees to have opportunities to uh be a part of the teams that help us with that.

So, again, we will continue to uh not only recruit and retain exceptional police officers, but when we can find opportunities for those officers to to have civilians do some of the the jobs that in the past that they have done that we'll seek that to.

And then lastly, I um believe you you understand that we have a Ford thinking organization, and in 2028, we have to renegotiate the interlocal agreement with Mecklenburg County as it becomes to Solid Waste Services.

Well, you you'll say, well, Marcus is 2025.

Why are we talking about that?

That's uh uh years away.

But what we need to do is be in a partnership, be collaborative, but maybe more importantly, be innovative, because what we're trying to do is not have a lot of things go to the landfill.

How can we uh be resilient?

How can we uh upcycle, how can we recycle?

And we've had some very successful initiatives through our partnerships with the barn, uh partnerships with Sustained Charlotte and our own uh Office of Sustainability.

And while it may seem like it's something that's uh not that important um tonight.

I wanted to recognize uh our folks from Angela Charles Group.

Hey Angela, um, from Charlotte Water, and uh what you um have before you is uh last week Charlotte Water uh debuted uh two beverages brewed with highly purified recycled water, which we call QC water.

Uh again, um what you have in front of you is uh crowned bucha, which is uh made by Lenny Board Brewing, and uh we are going to double down again with the renewed brew fall classic, a lag with town brewing company.

But I guess that the key with all of this is while you may think it's light, I think it's very important that we're able to be innovative when it comes to our resources.

So the QC water starts as treated affluent from Charlotte Waters McDowell Water Resource Recovery Facility that undergoes a state-of-the-art purification process, including carbon filtering, reverse osmosis, and advanced oxygen.

So Angela Charles.

Are you good?

So my engineer.

So Angela and if your whole crew could stand, thank you so much for the your thank you very much.

Yes, manager, are we not gonna mention what Ms.

Charles lay it last week?

Cool.

Go ahead.

You better mention it.

It's time for you to mention okay.

We have Ms.

Charles come down and share.

So Ms.

Charles, would you please I had the opportunity to join Miss Angela Charles and the mayor as well as the city manager of Mount Holly, as well as Miss Allison Craig, because we did a pretty amazing thing that took about 18 minutes for it to happen, and I want while we have you here to give an opportunity to for you to share what we're talking about an MOU with the county, this partnership that was 20 plus years in the making.

Thank you, Councilmember Mayfield.

Good evening, uh Mayor, uh Counseling, uh Manager Jones.

Uh we did connect the city of Mount Holly uh to Charlotte Water System.

This has been 20 years in the making.

We have two pipes, 65 to 75 feet below the Creek Bed, the Cataw River, connecting that whole city to Charlotte Waters.

So thank you for attending.

That's part one of the of the STOW facility project.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Manager.

And thanks to the staff.

We have a great assembly.

All right.

So you're if I could take a moment with council, you know, we've been talking about the idea of moving ahead with quality of life referrals for all of the council committees.

And as we've been discussing this and thinking about the issues around safety and security, especially on our transit line over these several weeks that we've had.

This really means that I think it's time for us to focus on what the opportunities might be for referrals that I think are important for us as we continue to work to make sure that we have quality of life and that we have the ability for to be faster on our feet than we perhaps have been in the last several weeks.

And so I'm hoping that we can I can send out tomorrow some referrals.

First one would be in the budget governance and intergovernmental relations to identify opportunities to align with safety related, especially with the state legislature, the all of the people that we're working on this.

We need someone tonight to knit this together, and I think that the budget and governance and intergovernmental relations would do that well.

But also, as we're doing that, we cannot forget the opportunities that I think the young man that's talked about this having the ability to have a job of the young lady that talked about having a job.

So for this next step, I hope that budget governance and intergovernmental relations will identify and evaluate our weight opportunities that we have not yet found and make it possible for us to keep people employed in a way that we can have people thrive in our city.

And then the next one that I wanted to say is housing and safety community mixed together.

All of us have heard today about this this idea of what it is means to be homeless on our streets and what the results are and what that means for us.

So Miss Swatlington and Miss Mayfield will team up again for housing and safety in the community committee, um, looking at where we can develop partnerships or any private sector collaboration or what ideas are we going to be have.

I think Miss Watlington has done this one time before when she first came on board, and maybe it's another time to go.

And Miss Mayfield, I know that you will support her.

And so I just wanted to say that those would be the referrals, and I would hope that everyone would be able to be move them forward as we begin to understand we're gonna have an election, but we're gonna have an election that I think has quality in it for all of our service and the work.

So I will be sending out those referrals tomorrow morning.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I just thank you for the referrals.

Um I just wanted to speak a little bit to some of the work that we've been able to do with our um intergovernmental partners, and I know that Council Member Ashmira, who is also on the housing safety and community committee, will be um instrumental in that work as well.

Um, but many of the comments that we heard tonight were things that we've been discussing for some time.

Um, and many of you know that a lot of it doesn't sit necessarily within the city.

That being said, I've been very pleased with the amount of engagement that I've gotten from um Councilmember Graham, um Chair Jarrell, Commissioner uh Griffin, Representatives Brown, Lofton, um, uh Senator Mooshtaba, Mohammed, um, and our judges who have been wonderful with informing us where in the process uh can we really make an impact.

I know that we're looking at um state legislation that's being drafted right now, um, and that hits a couple of items, but it really needs a comprehensive approach.

Um, so Dr.

S over at the county was um very very helpful in laying out the SIM, which I am going to get the um I'm gonna get the acronym eventually, but I believe it's the sequential intercept map, and it really lays out where our systems touch our neighbors, particularly those who um are faced with mental health challenges, and each of those intercepts um really touch on policies within each of our governments.

So, from a city standpoint, there are things there that we certainly will begin to discuss through this um referral.

Um but if you're interested in following that along through that process, we'll be kicking that off October 6th at the committee meeting.

Um and we hope to have our intergovernmental partners there as well.

But it's multifaceted, it's a very complex system, um, but I'm very hopeful uh with engagement that I've seen from our colleagues at various levels of governments and also within the nonprofit sector.

So uh it's a big big task, but I think we're up to it.

So more to come.

All right, thank you.

All right, I think I missed Mr.

Graham.

I think I forgot to say that your responsibilities if we can go forward about jobs and economic developments will be the focus, particularly on the NES committee as we begin to look at what we're going to do with our mobility plan and where we are going to have opportunities to have people assured that they will not be displaced.

People will have the opportunities to participate in our economy and without losing their place in our city.

So, with that, that's the end of my remarks for today.

So, if we're ready or if you're okay, we'll uh move to the policy section of our agenda besides the manager.

We're gonna go and start with financial partners policy update.

All right, do we have anything?

Miss Mira.

Yes.

So first let me make a motion to approve um financial partner policy.

So move.

Second.

We have a motion and a second.

Any discussion?

I know we have a motion and a second.

So do we is there any yes, uh I would like to make brief remarks.

Um what you've seen from us the financial partner policy has been revised to be good stewards of our taxpayers' dollars while addressing the community's needs.

Uh this is a this is a bold step forward, and I appreciate my colleagues' input along the way.

Committee members Mayfield, Brown, Mitchell, and Peacock.

So I hope that uh full council will adopt this unanimously as well.

All right, is there any other comment, Ms.

Pete Mitchell?

Uh thank you, Mayor.

Uh, let me thank staff as is Cherie here.

There you go.

There it is.

Yes.

Uh let me thank you for your patient understanding and taking the committee feedback and then coming back to us with uh great talking points for us to discuss.

And so one thing I like to bring you up because you know what you know what I'm about to say about the mandatory meeting.

That uh I'm hoping that you have a date and uh in October.

I hope I didn't steal your thunder.

Um while she approaching, and this is to all uh financial partners, it's very important you attend this meeting in the date that she's going to share with you because we're gonna have some challenge this year from a financial funding of all our partners.

And this meeting is very important so you understand the application and how you will be graded on.

And for this council, we hopefully we got a two that could take the politics out of us raising our hand, and we have a policy that we can go by.

So, Miss Sheree, first of all, thank you.

But do you have a date for the mandatory meeting in October?

I will reiterate um mandatory meeting will be in October.

Uh, we have not finalized the date.

However, um, I can promise that the date will be advertised on October the 1st, which is also the date that our application will be live at Charlotte NC.gov/slash budget on our financial partner page.

Okay.

Can you repeat that again?

Because some of my colleagues are writing it down.

October 1st, what's the website?

October the first, the FY27 financial partner application will be live on our website.

It's Charlotte NC.gov slash budget, and you'll be able to find it at the link for the financial partner section on that website.

And of course, if you have any questions, comments, or concerns, uh, all council members and staff feel free to point any interested organizations to me personally, and I'll make sure that they have all the information that they need.

And again, the mandatory meeting will be posted on our website as of October the first.

Thank you, Ms.

Sheree.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you very much.

All right, so um, we now have a vote on motion.

Can you send this on the patient's out?

Are we ready to vote?

Oh, yeah, and I was just asking her to send all of us a link so that then nonprofits reach out to us so we can send the link out.

Yeah, that's great.

That is great.

So we have a motion on the table and a second.

All in favor of the motion, please raise your hand.

Anyone opposed?

None are opposed.

So thank you.

So that that is a big achievement.

And we know how much work we spend on it in the last budget cycle.

It looks like it might be a smoother process this year.

So thank you very much.

We hope so, right?

I forgot to give a big shout out to Sean and uh Monica.

They were the support staff, including Shuri.

They put in a lot of work, and Sean has been always available and accessible, even including weekends and evenings, and I certainly appreciate that, Sean.

So thank you.

All right, the next item on our business agenda is authorization of general obligation refunding bonds and general obligation bond anticipation note.

We have a motion for A, B, and C.

And we have a second.

Is there any discussion?

Hearing no discussion, all in favor, um, please raise your hand.

All right.

Thank you.

That motion passes.

The next item is private developer contribution for water main improvements.

Is there a motion for A and B?

Okay, we have a motion for A and B.

Is there any discussion?

And we have a second.

We have a motion and a second.

Any discussion?

Hearing no discussion, all in favor, please raise your hand.

Anyone opposed?

No one's opposed.

Our next item is item 11.

Is there a motion to adopt a resolution to expand the jurisdiction of professional police services in DBA professional security services in areas adjacent to city owned transit assets?

And authorize the city manager is designated negotiate, amend and execute a municipal mutual aid agreement with professional police services in to aid in addressing safety and security issues at properties adjacent to city owned transit assets.

So moved.

We have a motion and a second.

All right, let's go ahead with some discussion.

We'll go around.

Um, Mr.

Graham, Miss Mayfield, Ms.

Sajmeira.

You might as well go around the dice.

Well, that is true, but let's try it and see how it works.

Well, thank you, Madam Mayor and Council.

Um of the questions that was submitted earlier.

The staff was really good questions that clarify a lot for me.

But there's there were three points that I really wanted to quiz staff on just for my education as well as public education on the particular topic.

Um conceptually, I'm gonna vote yes for it.

I think it's something that we need to do.

But my first question is around training.

Is different staff here?

It is Brent.

Mr.

Keenan is Brent.

Thank you for joining us.

Notwithstanding the fact that they're gonna have uh more territory to cover and more interaction with the public.

Can you talk to me about the training of the private security officers as it relates to the training that I see on PD officer may be given?

Yes, sir.

Good evening, uh Mayor members of council.

I'm Brent Cagle, interim CEO.

To your question, I have Celestine Ratliff here with me.

Um she owns, operates, co-owner, operator of PPS or PSS, and she'd be happy to speak to you about the training protocols that they have in place and the state requirements and guidelines that their officers meet.

Good evening.

Good evening.

So with regard to um professional police services, our officers are certified, sworn police officers, just like CNPD is.

They go through the exact same training.

They have to go through basic law enforcement training.

They also have to uh complete a minimum of 24 hours of in-service training every year.

Because I'm the training coordinator for professional police services.

My officers actually complete more than 24 hours.

I ensure that they complete 26 to 28 hours, in addition to some in-service training, I mean some uh in-house training that we do as well.

We've invited in a um judicial official to talk to our officers about a rest search and investigation, and also keep our officers abreast of any legal changes that are you know that are coming up and you know uh work with our officers on just you know basic questions that they may have about um you know court testimony, anything that you know our officers may be dealing with on a daily basis.

We do utilize that resource to provide additional training to our officers that is ongoing.

So, in answer to your question, our officers are received the same amount of training to become law enforcement officers as CMPD, and they have to maintain the same level of in-service training that CMPD has to um has to uphold as well.

And for the public um education, are these officers armed?

They are police officers, so yes, sir, they are armed.

Okay.

Uh the the second question is for Brent, in terms of uh I know there's currently 20 CMPT officers currently filling the gap currently.

Uh when we met last time, I talked specifically about whether or not there was a more formal relationship with CMPD.

I think the slide that we saw last time said that there were only two officers assigned to cats.

And my question was is was there a way for us to have a a permanent um law enforcement present, CMPD as the lead agency, whether or not it's a special task force specifically assigned to cats.

Can you give me an update on that?

Yes, sir.

So last time we spoke, we mentioned the two uh CMPD liaisons that work together with uh cats as well as uh PSS.

Um time we have entered into an agreement.

It's an off-duty assignment for 800 hours per week, which is roughly the equivalent of 20 FTE officers.

Um we will continue that agreement indefinitely, right?

And until further notice, um, but certainly no intention to remove that assignment or that off-duty assignment um at any point in the future that I can foresee.

Um so that is a formal uh relationship with CMPD in that we work together with CMPD to um create those assignments and those postings, and then officers um can volunteer or sign up for those assignments as an off-duty assignment.

To your second question, we continue to to um think about how we continue to collaborate with CMPD.

I will say tonight's action is one of those ways, uh, a mutual aid agreement.

Um you had asked about their expansion.

I would say, or the expansion of uh duties or abilities for PSS under this agreement.

It is not a significant expansion.

It certainly is a limited expansion of their ability to conduct enforcement activities in specific areas outlined in the agreement and MOUs that we have with CMPD, and it allows us better collaboration and better results, quite frankly, um, as we all work to reduce criminal activity or non-transit activity near or inside or or around transit facilities, the Charlotte Transit Center are other transit facilities as well as the rail trail.

Who would be the lead agency for?

For security on the CAT system.

CMPD or the private so PSS is is our primary contractor, and they have primary responsibilities in their areas as outlined in the contract and the mutual aid agreement.

Um they frequently work and collaborate with CMPD as they're conducting uh their duties.

Well, I I hope that we can move forward with really formalizing a more permanent agreement with CMPD, uh, and that the private security is a supplement to that.

I know that's a long-term goal, but I think that's where I think we should be headed.

Um I took last week and I rode transit, rode the bus, rode the streetcar, uh talked to um um customers.

There's a feeling of more uh perception of better safety with CMPD involved.

And I I just think that as we rethink how we police transit um now and even in the future that we don't need two agencies, that we should have one agency um which is CMPD, not overlapping with any others, security force leading the charge for us on this.

And so hopefully that's something that Mr.

Manager that we we can begin to think about, work on.

I'm interested to hear the comments from my colleagues.

But I think that as we move forward, I think I would love to see a permanent task force of officers assigned to cats supplement it with private security.

Even on the streetcar, I wrote it several times.

Didn't see anybody there.

And so I think we have to really really use this opportunity to think broad and wide about a permanent solution that regains public confidence.

And that's all I have.

I think that for the moment expanding of their authority is needed.

Hopefully there'll be a bigger presence on all forms, platforms, station, uh the streetcar itself.

But I think as we think forward that CMPD should take a major role in terms of securing the facilities.

Thank you.

Mayor Pro Tem.

Oh, so we backtracking in.

I know we're going to come around, I'm sorry.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

And um Mr.

Cagle, thank you for the update.

I remember the meeting uh a couple meetings ago where we had uh exhaustive conversation around PPS, our security measures on our um public transportation system, the use of technology, et cetera, right?

And so I'm just looking within uh the resolution here, and it states clearly in the resolution that nothing in this resolution should impact, reduce or limit the jurisdiction of CMPD, correct?

Um and so CMPD will continue to have their jurisdiction.

However, the augmentation of PPS will allow for an immediate action.

Um we can uh take action now as we work on a long-term plan.

I notice also that uh the agreement can be um modified or extended up to one-year terms.

Is that correct?

That is correct.

Okay.

And what if that occurs, will any of that um action come back to council, or is it it's just a part of this particular agenda item?

It would authorize the manager to uh execute those uh um extensions without it needing to come back to council.

So the reason there are two extensions, the the agreement is intended to flow um over the same time period as the contract with PSS.

Um so PSS contract has a term with two one-year extensions.

So clearly, if we were not to execute either of those extensions, this agreement would also not be executed because it is specific to the security provider for transit, it that is PSS at this point, and that's why the term is written that way, because it's commensurate or mirrors the contract um terms that we have with them.

So, you know, we've heard a lot of uh information from constituents that they don't feel the presence of security on the transportation system.

Can you talk about the impact of when riders and residents will feel the presence of this resolution?

Well, so let me answer that.

As as PSS has become our sole provider, they have consistently increased staffing and and changed approach to how they're conducting security activities throughout transit.

As we have executed the um additional the agreement with CMPD to bring in an additional 800 hours, all of those things are working together to create a stronger visual presence throughout the system, including on the blue line.

Um so that is continuously increasing as we move forward.

Last week, as we said, um again, a visual presence, a significant increase of 800 hours with CMPD, but um just last week uh PSS was able to hire and bring in new people as well.

So that is continuing to increase, and we acknowledge that there are there is more to do, um, and we will continue to increase visual presence throughout the system as well as um increase fair enforcement activities, and all of that will work together.

And we will continue to increase visual presence throughout the system as well as increase fair enforcement activities, and all of that will work together.

Again, we mentioned last week deployment of a bike unit for PSS, as well as deployment as of UTVs to give them more mobility in certain areas of the system, specifically along the rail trail.

So all of those things are in work in works and being deployed over the next few weeks with bikes and UTVs as well as continued hiring and the uh additional CMPD presence.

Okay, so the answer is now, right?

We should be feeling it right now, today, tomorrow, this week.

Yes.

I can also say that I I frequent um a light rail station quite often in in South End, and I can visually see the the effects.

I see CMPD cars there, I see more officers there than I typically would.

So thank you.

Thank you for that.

The other piece though is we also hear about timing, right?

Um, in particular in the evening.

And we've heard from some some residents who are women that say they they feel they feel like they are potentially at risk.

This augmentation is it is it around the clock as transportation runs and operates, or is there a specific targeted time periods or day parts?

Yes, so for the CMPD officers, it's across all shifts during all parts of the day, the service day for us, which is approximately 20 hours.

Um it is across all parts of the day, all days, all seven days a week related to deployment of PSS personnel.

Again, they're looking at the data, they're looking at quote unquote hot spots, and they're also looking at the districts and the needs of each of the districts that constitute specifically to the blue line that constitute the different areas that the blue line covers.

Um north, south, central, those things, because the needs or the rhythm, if you will, of those different areas of the blue line are different.

And so it's it's trying to pair the right uh response with the needs of each of the areas.

Okay, thank you.

That's those are all the questions that I have.

I just think this is a really important step for short-term action.

I know we're working on midterm and long range actions, but this is very important for the now that our residents and our transit riders can feel and see the increased safety.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

All right, Mr.

Driggs.

Yes.

Uh so as we discuss this, um, I think people are watching us and they're thinking, where's the passion?

Where's the energy?

It's like, guys, there's a bit of a war going on right now.

It may be a war of a public opinion, it may be a literal war of safety, but we're going to have to demonstrate a lot of commitment.

Uh I think this step that we propose to take tonight is a good step.

800 hours is a good step, but it's a big city, a lot of people.

So we're it's gonna take scale, something big.

And uh that's that's going to be my engagement.

So I will vote for this tonight for sure.

Um, but as we as we contemplate larger scale action, bigger impact, then we need to think a little more about how that works.

What kind of money is involved, and also are we going to change the social contract?

Are we going to change the way that we deal with people out there?

Because one of the difficulties in my mind about a lot of this is uh you have people out who are not misbehaving, but are uh potential potentially misbehaving, or they make other people uncomfortable with their behavior.

So are we going to get rough with them?

How are we going to handle that?

What are we going to do?

Are the police going to be able to intervene when they see situations that they recognize from their experience are dangerous, but nothing has happened yet.

Didn't actually see any drugs changing hands.

Uh or that person is just sitting there right now.

But I'm worried about that person.

So I'm just saying to you, uh I certainly am going to uh to think and and encourage us all to think on this larger scale.

Uh I want to engage with the legislature, the general assembly.

They are working now on uh legislation that they're talking about, and frankly, in my mind, it's probably not enough, okay.

Uh we have a history of hearing about underfunded district attorney's office and courts.

I've engaged with leadership in Raleigh a number of times on the same.

Say, why not?

You know, you've got a billion dollar surplus.

It takes 10 or 15 million dollars more.

So I don't want to criticize anybody in Raleigh, but I'm just saying uh our message to them can be that uh to tell them what do we need, right?

How do we feel that we can address this?

We have to address it in a way that's sensitive to our local culture and our society, but I believe that a larger scale commitment is going to be required.

Uh and so uh this tonight is a good thing, and we are doing the things that we can do very quickly.

Other things that we may want to do will take a little more time.

Uh the last point I would like to raise, Mr.

Cagle, is next year, right?

Our goal is to have an authority, and that changes everything.

So what do you think that the uh the safety environment will be under the authority?

Will they have their own police force?

Will they work?

Does this contract extend through the creation of the authority?

How does that work?

Well, I hate to predict the future, but I feel reasonably confident that if an authority is created and the transit is under a transit authority, there will be an independent transit police department.

Because one of the reasons we have uh I think we should be clear about this.

One of the reasons we have a contract with outside people, instead of just giving $18 million more to CMPD, is the limitation on the ability of cats to police itself.

Is that right?

Yes, sir.

Right.

So the that will be different.

Under the authority, that will be different.

And that entity will have the ability to have uh its own police force, and with any luck, if the sales tax can pass, it will have the resources that are necessary to make the system safe.

So I just want to put the plug in for the sales tax right there and say that that is going to be the environment in which this larger vision that we need for safety uh can be developed for cats.

Thank you.

Mr.

Peacock?

Mr.

Cagle, I plan on supporting this this evening.

Thank you earlier.

I just wanted to clarify in the actual resolution itself, it says to extend the extra the extend the territorial jurisdiction of PPS beyond the real property or in the possession of the city, which is utilized for transit purposes.

Am I to interpret that that this includes all stations, not just the four that are listed in here, meaning it's all stations along the light rail.

So any area around CATS, you will have authority through PSS to be able to provide extra protection for citizens.

So this agreement pertains to the four transit centers and areas immediately adjacent to them and only those transit centers.

We we already own the station platforms for rail.

Um so this is about the rail trail in between.

We do not necessarily own all of the property that the rail trail is on.

So this is those in-between places, but the platforms are already CAT's property.

The transit centers are already Cat's property, but we do find that there are some areas that are adjacent, directly adjacent where we may see those activities being conducted, or those activities may then come in and out of transit properties while while they're being conducted, and this allows PSS to really assist police to continue their mission, right?

Which is making transit safe and eliminating those elements from transit.

Um it is not to replace in any way the mission of CMPD or the roles that they play.

It's really there to support CMPD while also allowing PSS to do what we've hired them to do.

What can PSS not do?

So right now PSS is contracted to CATS, which means they have authority on CAT's property, right?

Um because we're we're contracting with them.

This gives them a slightly larger footprint for enforcement activities.

But but again, as as Ms.

Ratliff said, their certified law enforcement officers are law enforcement officers.

They they go through the same training, they have those same abilities.

It's really about the contract limitations and where they can conduct those enforcement activities.

Can a PSS officer enforce a fare that someone hasn't paid?

And do they?

They can?

Yes and yes.

Okay.

Because the so enforcement is by definition conducted on CAT's property on a vehicle or on a platform.

So yes, they they have the authority to do that.

And they and they do do that.

Okay.

And so they could they arrest somebody on a train, like we'd heard from many of our citizens who felt disturbed by people that are threatening them.

Someone someone agreed someone's threatening a rider and one of them are on a train.

Would they be there to help them?

Can they respond the same way CMPD can?

They do have their certified law enforcement officers have the same powers as any other law enforcement officer they can detain and make arrests.

And when they write a ticket or they write infraction, is it done on CMPD paper?

Or do is it public record?

Do we res do we see those?

That is a civil citation.

Certainly we have those records, but that is a civil citation that is written.

Okay.

Um next question, Mr.

Cagle, um, goes back to my first request, and you've indicated to us in our response that you all were compiling along with the city manager my request for 36 months of history, so that we as a council, and Mr.

Driggs breaks up a great point on the bigger picture, but the bigger picture of public safety has to do with where is the criminal activity occurring across all of our system?

You told us last time we have 48 trains.

We have four transit centers.

Um we have a lot, even more bus stations.

But are you able to opine just broadly speaking, where is the majority of the criminal activity occurring on cats right now?

Criminal activity, just like in our community, occurs all over.

It occurs throughout the system.

Certainly there are areas that PSS and our security team in collaboration with CMPD that become hot spots at certain times, and they respond accordingly.

But these incidents occur throughout the system just like they do throughout the community.

Um security has the ability to respond and deal with those uh incidents when they come up.

And and we are working on that data for you.

Um we're going back to 2022, so a little bit longer than the 36 months, and we are pulling that data for you as well as the rest of the council and mayor.

So will council have the ability to help PSS to staff adequately if we notice that you have much more crime than maybe we originally anticipated.

I mean, where does the staffing model come from?

Is what I want to know.

I want to know how you all are determining where uh individuals are going to be placed along all of our light rail and along our bus system.

PSS works through that.

They are the professionals, that's why we hire them and their background, and so they're making those decisions on deployment and how to deploy throughout the system to protect the customers, the employees, the assets across the entire system.

Okay, and just final question, Mr.

Mrs.

Mayor.

Um again, um it's just a question that I get from citizens.

They ask me why is CMPD not the primary law enforcement agency?

Why are they not the only why are they not the first responders for all of this?

We have for many years had a corporate security model.

Um this is not new in the last three years or the last 10 years, I don't believe.

And so this is the model that we have utilized, but again, we are working with PSS as part of this action and other things so that they can work really to be a transit police entity, right?

Although they are contracted.

This has been the model that has been deployed at CATS for for many years.

Um and I know your colleague behind you is our individual who came to us from Metro New York.

Um are those systems, are they are those New York systems?

Are they are they their own transit authorities?

Um I know that we have one of our our officers with CMPD, who is a former transit uh was on, you know, he was on a beat for much of his time in New York.

So the MP.

I'm just trying to get to the visibility of cops on trains.

This is part where I think the citizens are really confused.

We have individuals that are riding these trains right now that people do not know why they're there.

They don't feel safe, and people want to know are we responding to it with police, people with yellow vests, um, are these like bobbies that you have in in London where they're carrying billy clubs?

I I testified before that I saw somebody with the with uh handcuffs and what look like mace, maybe a billy stick.

I couldn't tell.

Again, who's in charge here?

And I think that's the part that we need real clarity from you guys as we move through the MOU and then we move to the next phase, which is responding to all of these bodies that are requesting all this information.

We've got obviously Department of Transportation, FTA, State of North Carolina.

It's just it like it just keeps coming, guys, and I'm waiting to hear, like, give me some confidence that this is gonna change.

We are responding to all of the agencies that you had referred to.

We've already responded to the North Carolina State Auditor's Office.

We will be responding to FTA within the designated timeline.

They gave us 15 days to respond.

All of those responses are going through, and we are passionate about this, right?

Um, as as this council has said, there needs to be passion and energy around this, and and this is what we are doing.

Um we are working together with CMPD and PSS as we continue to increase visibility, but also look at other deployment strategies, technology based as well as people.

Okay.

I'll let your colleague behind you answer the question, but I want to piggyback off what Mr.

Graham had said as well, too.

He's talking about wanting to have CMPD be a prompt play a primary role.

Um, and I I I really don't care how we get to the destination of public safety, if we have a combo here or we have one team moving forward, but I think everybody at this diet wants to make sure that we have a very visible presence on our trains so that we don't have a citizens' forum that's filled with the majority of the speakers who are feeling like all of transit and all of Uptown is unsafe.

Yes, sir.

So I'll let Eric respond.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Let me jump in.

Okay.

Okay.

So uh thank you, Councilmember Peacock.

I think what's extremely important is a little bit of a level setting.

So we had this management partners study a few years ago that talked about transit systems throughout the country, and arrows is a little different in that it's not run by an authority.

Uh years ago, there were a lot of discussions about the half cent sales tax, the current half cent sales tax, and what it can and can't do in terms of the sustainability of cats, and maybe call it a cliff.

I don't know if it's 2028, I don't know if it's 2029, but at some point that half cent sales tax is not enough to grow the system, expand the system, help with frequencies and do a lot of the things that we've been talking about with mobility.

Uh in terms of the law enforcement piece, what we have is a system that has used these, this contract.

And what we've learned recently, and I think Brent, I know Brent would agree, is that in order for the safety plan, Cat Safety Plan to be fully implemented, they were down about 30 officers.

And what we've done is with these 800 hours begin to supplant that.

I think the key is the system can get better, both from a safety standpoint, a frequency standpoint, modernization standpoint, innovation technology standpoint with additional resources.

But without those additional resources, it's will become a very difficult conversation to start talking about shifting resources from CMPD to somewhere else.

Last thing I'll say is that why this works so well is they're off-duty assignments.

So the supplemental hours are not taking away from any policing in any neighborhood across our community.

So while it's a short-term, we're addressing this on the short term, and clearly we have to do more.

I I believe that right now this combination is working given the environment that we're in and what we need.

Okay.

I like that you're thinking through it in that manner, Mr.

Manager.

I I'm what I'm concerned about is are we are we making this safer?

And while we don't want to take CMPD resources out of the neighborhoods per se, I'm hoping when you all provide us this data back to 2022, if we are seeing a lot of criminal activity on our trains, that CMPD will be heavily involved.

Is that is that and then I'll I'll stop and but believe where you hit it is make sure the resources are where the problems are, much like we do in anywhere.

Anywhere else, right?

anywhere else.

Exactly.

Yes, so I agree.

Okay.

Well, I just wanted to hear our difference between us and New York and and how they have cops and they have visibility and they enforce fares, but yet we seem to be really light in that category.

Yes, so I will I will answer it two ways.

Um, New York City, the MTA is a transit authority, right?

Two, they do have a transit police force.

But the last point is fare evasion, crime, they they have those things too.

Um there was just a study that came out that estimated the MTA loses a billion dollars a year in fare evasion.

Um so again, this is not something that a closed system or an authority or governance structure um resolves.

This is something that transit agencies across the country of all different sizes of all different governing structures of all different security enforcement structures.

We're struggling with this.

This is a nationwide thing, and and Charlotte is included in that.

And so I will say um, as the manager said, this is about how do we provide more resources today.

We have started that.

Um, and we can demonstrate that that we have continuously added resources towards security um and towards state of good repair to the system since 2022.

Um I can speak directly to that since 2022.

Um and we'll continue to do that because we also acknowledge that more can and needs to be done, and we will continue that.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Again, I'm gonna support this, Mr.

Cagle.

Thank you for your detailed answers, and um this couldn't come soon enough.

Ms.

Mayfield, thank you, madam mayor.

First, for clarification, we have the business identified as professional police services, which is PPS, even though multiple times we have said PSS, so for the records for our clerk's office, it is PPS professional police services, according to what we have on file.

Now, in the explanation, we say under the proposed mutual aid agreement, PPS will be authorized to enforce federal, state, and local laws, and have the authority to make arrests and issue citations within the expanded areas of jurisdiction of which we've identified the expanded area.

With that, Mr.

Cagle and or for the representative, you will probably be tag teaming.

I have a couple of questions.

So currently for level set, we do have a policy not to stop individuals that are boarding our buses if they don't have the fare.

Yet we also need to recognize that it is always not the unhoused person that's riding our light rail without paying a fare.

I want to make sure that we're not letting a narrative be created that it is only our members who are unhoused that are riding our rail system without paying.

We have plenty of individuals that seemingly could pay that just choose not to, and I don't want us setting up a precedent where we are giving space to profile anyone.

Well, we made the decision previously for specifically bus, because manager and I have had this conversation multiple times.

I'm like people are not paying the fare on the rail, then just remove the cost for bus fare because the people who are riding the bus more likely are the ones who are actually utilizing public transportation for their major means and not just on getting uptown for convenience say for clarification.

There's no civil service board oversight, Mr.

Cagle, this would be for you.

Instead, what the language I read stated says that a company police administrator is who would do the oversight.

Yes, ma'am.

The oversight is provided at the state level, the state of North Carolina through a company police administrator.

And let me check to make sure I said that correctly.

Yes.

So for clarification, the responsibility and job of a company police administrator would be to defend the company, not necessarily the city.

So I'm trying to understand what that oversight would look like.

The company police administrator does not work for the company.

It is a Capital C company police administrator through the state of North Carolina who is tasked with overseeing these kinds of matters if there are questions or or um uh uh concerns with misconduct.

So for PPS, is there a duty to intervene policy?

There is.

Um, just like with police, just like with the police, yes, ma'am.

So since we're going back to the company police administrator, because currently right now, if there were a concern regarding interaction with CMPD, we have the citizens review board, which also has an appeals process.

So with PPS, what would that appeals process look like if there were an incident that resulted in harm and or fatality?

So that that's two parts to that.

Number one, um, any complaint, any complaint of misconduct or criminal activity on behalf of any of a of a company police officer is investigated through the North Carolina Department of Justice.

Um, it's criminal justice uh education, training and standards commission, and a the company police administrator is over that entire program.

So they actually regulate 74E, which is what what gives police uh company police officers their commission.

So if a company police officer, you know, for any type of misconduct or complaint arising from negligence or illegal activity, that is investigated by company police.

They have their own investigators, um, and they have the ability to revoke an officer's commission as a police officer.

So that's who regulates company police.

We don't have a civil service board, uh, but the but the complaints go directly to the state.

So here's the challenge, one of many challenges, but one of the challenges that I have, there was a reason that the civil service board was created, because there has been a long history regarding whether it is the FOP or others within law enforcement regarding how citizens, mainly overwhelmingly black and African American citizens and or our unhoused and poor citizens have been treated, and we can take that back generations for why we have a civil service board.

So to know that that will no longer be at a opportunity to try to help with identifying fairness is a concern for me.

Will your company wear body worn cameras?

Yes, ma'am.

So who would be who is responsible for those body worn cameras?

Or is your company funding, and then we get access to those body worn cameras, or you're subject subject to the same rules where if media requests the camera footage, how we have a time period that it needs to be released, would that be the same expectation and responsibility for your company?

No, ma'am, it's a little different because we're private entity.

So no, it would we do have body worn cameras and we do cooperate with um with cats if there's any footage that needs to be pulled.

We also cooperate with the district attorney's office in regards to any cases that our officers are involved in, but you will not be subject to the rules that our CMPD are when there's a public records request.

No, ma'am, we would not fall under that again because we are private entity.

Public records requests are usually for government entities.

So just to clarify.

So beyond the body warrant cameras for PSS, PPS, same company, slightly different names, but your first question was what's the difference?

They are both the same company, and I apologize for referring to them separately.

But PPS, so these beyond their cameras, CATS has that our CATS cameras, over 3,500 cameras in our system, all of those cameras, as the media well knows, um, are recording, and and anyone, whether it be the media or the public, can and do request that video, and we provide it under open records law requirements.

And so we have an extensive camera system on vehicles throughout the platforms, throughout the network, throughout the facilities, um, over 3,500 cameras that are that's different than than B than body worn cameras that um may be deployed with PPS officers, but all of that is uh subject to open records requests, and we we frequently respond and provide video to those requests.

So, Mr.

Man, well the manager stepped away.

So when we think about the fact that if the community supports this transit tax and we're going to have an authority, how would if there is a instance that involves a resident, a visitor, whoever, and higher security?

What would be the role regarding open records request?

Where they and manager I was gonna put into the ether, but what would it look like as far as if this were to pass in November and we go to an authority?

Right now, it has been identified that this private entity, even though they have body worn cameras because they are a private entity, they are not subject to the open records laws that we are.

But CATS has multiple cameras, and those cameras, if requested information would will be released.

What would that look like under an authority?

I'm going to have to ask the city attorney there.

Yeah, it's very likely that that could still be covered through the contract that CATS will have with the provider.

The CATS could provide that any documents, materials retrieved or or uh achieved during the conduct of the contract remains the property of CATS.

I don't know.

We can look at that uh as a way uh to get it.

Um there also can be a requirement that uh the because the the police force is serving as the agent for CAPS that that as the agent they're working on behalf of CAF, and therefore the CATS can dictate a little bit of the rules uh with regards to production of certain information that's gathered during the performance uh of the work that they're doing for CAS.

It's something that certainly can be looked at and evaluated uh and we can deal with that as well.

I would appreciate uh follow-up on that, attorney Fox.

So we've shared a lot of what ifs and the possibilities.

Exactly.

How are we going to share this information that we have a private security company that very well will be on our trains for when we have visitors to the city?

So, like this weekend, yesterday, we had a grant, had a gang gold Panthers, we found one.

So we have people coming in all the time, concerts and events, and unfortunately, quite a few of those visitors have partake of tailgating starting early in the morning.

How and very well may be very belligerent.

This isn't necessarily a unhoused member of the community, because again, I feel like we're putting a lot of energy on just one segment of our community when it's a much bigger issue.

How is it going to be promoted inside the banners that run inside the train station around the train station?

How are we going to promote that you very well may see an individual that does not have a badge and the CATS logo, but is our actual security to make sure that we don't have an interaction that's going to negatively impact the city?

Yes, so today the officers that PPS has are readily identifiable in uniform, identifying them as transit security.

Um that happens today, but we also have been thinking about how we can do better marketing.

That's the wrong word, communication to the public related to their roles and responsibilities.

But again, their roles and responsibilities are aren't really separate from CMPD, you know.

If there is a CMPD officer in the South End and they see activities that shouldn't be occurring on a platform, they intervene as well and and assist, um, and vice versa.

And so the security personnel that we have with PPS is readily identifiable.

It it would be difficult to mistake them for anything but security personnel for the transit system.

Um, but we can certainly work um more on communications to the public.

I think that would be helpful because as we look at the uniforms that our officers wear, and unfortunately, we're in a time and space where we have had individuals walking around the streets in a uniform that looks like it could be worn by a police officer.

Unfortunately, on a national level, we have had to experience the loss of individuals who are representing our nation because the individual showed up and what they received to be was a uniform of law enforcement.

So you have individuals that do not have good intent.

I want to make sure that we're at least thinking about how do we make sure that not only our residents but also the visitors can identify and if there's ways that if they have concern of an individual portraying someone that they're not, because in this environment that we are in, we have all seen articles across the nation of individuals portraying themselves as law enforcement, and we had a number of women come down and speak tonight, and a number of women across this nation have been assaulted, have been attacked by individual that represented themselves as being connected to law enforcement that wasn't.

So understanding me being able to understand what that marketing, what that advertising, what those markers are to make sure that our community is safe.

That's something that I would like for us to take into consideration.

Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Hi, Ms.

Watlington.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Um there's been a lot of discussion here tonight.

Um I'm glad that some of the previous council members brought up that uh we need to go to the legislature because I know we're talking about cats specifically right now, but as Mr.

Cagle has indicated, and we as we have discussed several several times, this is a much bigger picture beyond transit, and this recent tragedy has driven national interest because it is truly shocking and heartbreaking.

However, there are at least 42 other victims that we've seen this year in this city that didn't draw nearly as much interest.

So I just want to make sure that our passion, as was alluded to earlier, is purposeful and it's not political theater.

We understand that we are in North Carolina.

We understand that next year there's going to be an awful lot of activity here and in other states across the nation.

But let's continue to be who we are as a community that can work regardless of party across the aisle as independence to do what's right for our community.

Um I want us to stay and focus there because as we think about what we need for this city and for this community, despite what you'll see on the media that we may be full of chaos or lawless or those kinds of things, we know that's not who we are.

Um, so if we can keep our focus on the first things being first, I think that that's the best place to start.

As I've been having conversations with uh many of our electeds and many of our community leaders in regards to these topics, I do want to lift up a few things that I hope are able to be discussed uh through our legislative agenda, as Mr.

Driggs alluded to before, because we do need help from the legislature, we need uh help from the governor's office, we need help from the federal government as well.

Um and so when we talk about things like sentencing considerations and requirements, that's been something that's been brought up many, many times related to repeat offenders.

That is not decided here at the local level, it's not even decided by judges.

We need help from our legislature on that.

So, Mr.

Driggs, I imagine that you and others will continue to lead those conversations in a meaningful way because that's something that we can do beyond what's currently on the bill.

Uh, when we talk about involuntary commitment conditions and who has the authority to call for involuntary commitment and how those things happen.

Again, does not happen here.

We need support from the state legislature.

When we talk about the ability to conduct clinical assessments when people who are having challenges with mental uh health are uh detained and brought before our magistrates, there are things that we need to do there and investments that we need in order to ensure that there's continuity of care even in that uh environment.

When we talk about DA funding, yes, as you mentioned, we've been talking for years about needing more district attorney support.

But one thing that we have not been talking about and that we're still going to need is more support in the public defender's office because we need to ensure that these cases are able to be processed, not just from the district attorney side of things, but also from the um from the public defender's office.

When we talk about mental health, we cannot have that kind of discussion with seriousness without discussing Medicare and Medicaid and the defunding that we've seen over decades from the federal government and the legislature in our very own state towards those services.

We need help from the legislature there.

When we talk about outpatient supportive services for people, even if they've been involuntarily committed, that lasts for a short period of time, less than two weeks often, and then where are they going to go?

When we talk about jails and facilities and the capacity, we already know right now that we have issues there.

We need funding, we need help from our legislature.

When we talk about re-entry housing, that I know council member Brown is an expert on, those are kinds of those are the kinds of things that we need support.

Employment opportunities.

When we talk about banning the box, those are the kinds of things that we need support, not just at the local level, but at the legislature.

So I'm while I hate that we are having these conversations under these circumstances, I am very hopeful that this will lead to real change, not political change, but policy change.

And so, Mr.

Driggs, I I hear what you're saying, and I hear your passion, and I'm happy to continue to work with you to get real change at the level where that authority actually exists.

Thank you.

Ms.

Mira, my job.

I appreciate what Councilwoman Watlington alluded to, that we want real change, policy change, and not political theater.

So I'm really hoping something substantial will come out of this, not just at the local level, but also at the state level.

While we can only control our local level, so I'm going to uh have my remarks that are focused on the local level.

Uh first, let me just thank um BPS and Mr.

Cagle.

Uh, thank you for laying out on the security improvements to keep our riders and our operators safe in such a short time frame.

And I know that in past few past two weeks have been difficult uh for all of us, especially for cats, and um I appreciate how you have worked around the clock to help restore the confidence in our system.

I was looking at all the safety improvements uh that have initiated having 800 hours of support from CMPD, having 20 officers, having PSS deploy more officers, um having fair enforcement, all of this has occurred in past two weeks.

I think you so I want to recognize that.

Um I talked about how we cannot let fear drive people away, and what you have heard from our public forum and from citizens is that there is not just perception but a reality where a lot of people do not feel safe after this incident that has happened, and just the it's unfortunate, but that means that we need to work harder to keep our riders safe.

Um Mr.

Atlif you talked about some of the training that PPS officers go through, uh, which is similar to what CMPD officer does.

Uh are they bound by the same standards of operations and procedures?

Do they go through the same training academy as our CMPD officers do?

So CMPD runs their own basic law enforcement training, but it is a state standard, right?

Our officers go through the exact same state standard, but it's not through CMPD.

Yeah.

So many of our officers go through local colleges to go through the BLET program, which is offered through Central Piedmont, also Mitchell College, Rowan College.

So there are different uh community colleges that offer um uh basic law enforcement training that our officers are going through.

And we do have a couple of retired CMPD officers to include myself that have been through CMPD, uh BLET.

So we often talk about uh Mr.

Manager recruiting and retaining our police officers and how we have a shortage of officers.

Um so maybe Mr.

Natley, if you can talk about how you are able to recruit um faster than we are.

So that's a tough one.

I don't know if I'm recruiting faster, but what we are doing is um we try to demonstrate what we're doing, and many people come up to us after seeing our officers and seeing our professional officers are and how well trained our officers are and disciplined they are, and they come to us and they're asking for opportunities.

Some that have had the LET training, some that are retired, some who are looking to go through it.

Um, but we also advertise on um job job boards like Indeed, um, where we're we're actively recruiting for good um solid officers who are looking for an opportunity.

Yes, because I was looking at the security improvements a presentation that Mr.

Cagle had done, and just the increased amount of security presence in past two weeks, and just uh how we have ramped up hiring more officers.

I mean, that speaks a volume to your ability to recruit and uh retain the talent that you have, but then also fill the gap that we have that I know that does exist.

Um we we appreciate that.

Uh in terms of uh to follow up on Councilmember Mayfield's question about policy.

Do PPS officers do they have instant activating holster monitors like CMPD officers do?

We do not.

I think that's through Axon, right?

So we you utilize a different um provider for our uh BWC cameras.

Um so we don't have that now, but that is technology we are looking into.

One thing I would say, uh Councilmember Ejmer.

Um I know that uh August 22nd was was a terrible day that shook the community, but I will say um December 14th, 2024 was was a very important day for us.

That was the day that we consolidated the contract with EPS, um, and they have been working diligently, not just in the last two weeks, but really um from the beginning of our relationship to meet the needs to help uh secure transit to make it safer for our passengers, um, but also to hire.

And so I I do want to say I think that the last two weeks have um certainly created an emphasis and the basis for all of the conversation and really put us with an eye forward, but that has been going on uh much before that as we continue to move forward.

And so some of those things that you see over the last two weeks, that they're moving quickly because they've actually been moving for a while, and so those those processes were in place and were already going.

And Mr.

Kegel, you talked about fair enforcement, and will PPS be doing that fair and fair enforcement, or would that be a CATS employee?

For now, fair enforcement and traditionally fair enforcement has been a function of the contract of the contractor.

So, yes, PPS will continue doing that.

They just had a fair blitz last week, I believe, and they'll continue doing that until we can staff up.

What we're seeing is many transit agencies are having better success by creating um a fair inspection unit of and so we would view that as an in-house um uh CATS employees who are supported by security as they're conducting their duties, which are focused on fair inspection, but that is as we move forward.

But for now, PPS will keep doing that at PSS.

Um I know when we look at this agreement specifically, MOU, it talks about patrolling areas adjacent to the city-owned properties, uh, city-owned transit assets, I should say.

Um currently, who is patrolling that area?

Is that CMPD?

Yeah, uh so CMPD patrols the city.

Um right that so I think a question was this feels like it was a one-way agreement, uh, PSS or PPS with the city, that that is exactly accurate, it is.

Um, this agreement isn't necessary for CMPD because they they patrol the city, and so anything outside of the contracted jurisdiction, i.e.

transit properties, yes, primary responsibility, unless there's another entity that would um take on that role.

For example, UNC Charlotte, we have a station at UNC Charlotte.

So primary responsibility beyond our platform would be the UNC Charlotte police force.

Yes, so the reason I bring that up because I see confusion when it comes to two entities, PPS and then you have CMPD, to Councilmember Graham and uh Councilmember Peacock's point, where we have two separate entities patrolling areas adjacent to the city, uh adjacent to CATS facilities.

Um we need to have clear communication as to who is the point of contact because I can see that create that creates confusion.

And go ahead, sorry.

Go ahead.

Well, I would say that I I I understand um I understand um that that is the perception, but I will say that I believe in the field, right, on a day-to-day basis, um that is not the reality.

On a day-to-day basis, that is not the reality.

PPS works closely with CMPD, the liaisons who are dedicated to transit, as well as the rest of the officers.

And so I I believe that this helps clarify that and build on that collaboration, but I don't think that there is sort of a lack of understanding as the officers are doing their job about what their job is and how to do that.

And I and I think that this mutual aid agreement just extends that and furthers those efforts to create clarity.

And I know Mr.

Driggs talked about limitation of cats to police itself.

Could you elaborate on those type of limitations?

So well, uh I do so today, so I think we were talking about if there is a transit authority and what that future state could look like.

And again, I don't want to try to predict the future.

If I if I could do that, um I'd I'd be doing something else right now.

But what I would say is I I do think as we think about a transit authority as a separate body, it's reasonable to believe that as a separate body they will have a separate police department.

Um and so I I don't know that I characterize it as limitations, but I will also reiterate what the manager has already said.

When we think about limitations today, um if there is not additional funding in the future, I I think we will be having conversations about limitations and what that looks like between how we spend the dollars and the services we provide.

Um there and I and as the manager said, I don't know when that conversation is, but I I do suspect that that conversation will be coming because there is a limited amount of funds to provide the services uh we provide okay, and just one last question, Madam Mayor.

I was looking at upcoming security improvements slide, um, Mr.

Cagle, and you mentioned in the week of September 26th, UTVs in service for hard to access areas.

So that's can you elaborate on that?

Uh UTVs are small, uh, I'm gonna call them golf cart like vehicles.

Um that's probably a terrible description, but that's what it I think of.

Um and they are able to access station to station along the um rail trail where it's it takes you more time to get in a vehicle to get around to each of the stations because of how uh the blue line, especially in the south end, is really integrated into the businesses and the communities and the traffic and all of those things.

And so a UTV and a bike patrol are designed to give uh faster response and deployment and better visibility throughout the system, especially in those areas, but also in areas across Uptown uh where it's it's more difficult to use a traditional vehicle than to have than to use the rail trail.

So uh would this be operated by BPS?

Yes.

Okay.

Um and also you in the in this security improvement slide, you got established fare zone at CTC that will be implemented in late fall.

So are we looking at some infrastructure improvements?

Yeah, so basically when we think about the CTC, there were two steps.

One is almost complete, remove the um concessions, right?

Remove the restaurants, the the there was a convenience store as well.

Remove those so that the purpose for being at the CTC is solely transit.

The second um, along with other things, lighting and other environmental design things, but the second most fundamental thing is literally to put a line around the CTC that says fair zone.

So if you go to our platforms today, you'll notice a blue line on the ground that says fair zone around all of them, and inside of that line is a fair zone, and outside of it is not.

The CTC will have a line around it, literally stating fair zone.

We we need that so that it is clear delineator of where the fair zone begins and ends.

And I know we talked about open system versus closed system, and this will certainly be a step in the right direction to keep our riders and our operators safe.

So that's all I have.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

All right, so Ms.

Johnson.

Oh, thank you.

Do you want to go?

Okay.

And so thank you, Madam Mayor.

So thank you for the presentation.

How much will this resolution cost?

This res resolution does not have a cost.

The cost of the contract is a separate matter, but this resolution does not have a cost, it does not increase or change liability coverages in the contract.

This is a zero dollar resolution, but because it's a municipal agreement, it comes before this body for uh approval.

So there's no cost for the expansion of service services?

This is a this there is no cost associated with this uh municipal uh mutual aid agreement.

Okay.

And what about the 800 hours for the CMPD officers or the 20 officers?

Is that are those off-duty officers?

Yes.

So there's a cost associated with that, right?

Absolutely.

So has that information been presented to council?

It has not okay.

So speaking of that, we asked for a report um about the the number of crimes that have been committed on the trains on the bus or surrounding areas.

Um Mr.

Peacock asked for that.

Uh you said the last three he's not here, last three years.

I I asked for that.

Um I believe councilwoman um Mayfield and Ashmir also asked for that.

So I want to talk to Mr.

Jones.

This crime happened, this crime, and and we're saying national, but this was infinite.

Excuse me.

And this happened on 822, that's been 30 days.

I don't know any other organization where if the board of directors ask for this type of information, it wouldn't be available when there's this type of scrutiny on us.

So I would ask for that information, and I think that we would um ex our residents expect us to have that.

If we're going to be making changes, any time you make changes or improvement, you want to measure your current situation.

So I I think it's a fair ask, Mr.

Jones, if we know how many crimes have been committed on the um in the CATS system in the last um three years.

You know, we we hear from public, and some and some people would say had we acted sooner, it might have it might have saved her her life.

So um I'd like that information.

Can you just touch on that please?

So I think I'm I'm correct with this, Brent.

You helped me out.

Um, the way the data are reported or two different ways to the FTA and the FBI.

Had we given you the first run, I think the data would have been incorrect.

So now we have had an opportunity to look at it again.

And um I think we'll have this to you as early as tomorrow, if I have that right, Brent.

Okay.

Yes, sir.

No, I'm asking about did I get it right in terms of the way the data are reported between the FBI and so I won't say it's incorrect, but there is a challenge, and and believe me, we are working very hard on this.

It's a reasonable ask of the council and of the community.

How we think about crime is usually in context to how CMPD reports it, which is in context of national standards through the FBI.

How criminal activity is reported in transit via the FTA is different, and that goes into what's called the national transit database.

And so we are parsing through that understanding that the way most people think about criminal activity or crimes is usually in the lens that we're all accustomed to, FBI standards, national standards, and and this is slightly different with NTD or national transit database.

It does not mean that the uh data is inaccurate, it just means that we need to be thorough as we pull that together for you and the community to provide you uh the full and complete answer to the question, but clearly it is a reasonable question, and we are working very hard on getting you that answer.

Thank you.

It's thanks for cleaning that up.

And it's beyond yes, another question.

Yes, another question can be.

That's okay.

It's beyond reasonable.

It's expected, and there's a culture of lack of transparency, and this kind of just speaks to it.

And council, we're held held accountable for it.

You know, on the campaign trail, we were beat up over certain things.

I can speak for myself.

And it's when we are trying to get this information, and we're not able to.

So we need your help with that, Mr.

Jones.

Also, I wanted to ask Mr.

Cagle, do you know how long you've been the interim director of CATS?

I I don't know months.

I will tell you the month that I started, December 2022.

So I I haven't run that a roughly three and a half years.

So December 2022, December 1st 2022 was my first official day as your interim CAT CEO.

Two and a half.

Two and a half?

Two and a half.

All right, two and a half.

So again, I would just speak to the culture.

When we talk about what council can do or what the city can do, these are the kind of things that are under our purview.

We're talking about state laws and all of that, but what are what bold action are we as council willing to make?

And when we don't take any action, it it seems as though we're subscribing or supporting in action.

So I I would just put that out there to my colleagues.

I'm happy to see the referral.

Thank you, Mayor.

That these referrals are important.

Um, but you know what we have to ask ourselves as council members what is under our purview or we can make changes.

Um will there be an officer on each train?

Is it is that the goal?

That is not feasible today.

As we continue to develop strategies, I do not believe that will be feasible in the future, but that is clearly not feasible today.

Okay, thank you.

Um these officers have qualified uh qualified immunity.

So I at I do not want to give you a legal answer as I understand it.

Qualified immunity is a federal concept that applies to certified law enforcement personnel, but that's as far as I would want to go related to qualified immunity.

Okay, thank you.

I would like to see uh cost and well, a cost analysis on what the difference would be for a CMPD officer.

Um to handle the security versus PSS.

I'm thinking PSS is going to be uh much more uh feasible and efficient, especially we know we're so understaffed with CMPD officers.

Um we met with the FOP and they they give us numbers as high as you know quite high, five or six hundred.

So I it may not be practical, but I'd like to if you can, if someone can provide the difference so that we can provide that information to the public because there are members of the public that would, you know, there's been some talk about CMPD officers.

So I'd like to have justification or documentation on what the difference would be.

We can provide that.

I will point out, and I think this is important.

I think as we move forward, whether there's a transit authority or there's not, the off-duty assignments, the 800 hours, it is standard practice.

It's it's not an either-or.

It's a both and transit agencies, it's not an either-or.

Um, and so to think about what the role of CMPD is going forward or uh uh other law enforcement agencies, um it's really about how to strike the balance and the roles of law enforcement and security.

Think about it in context of of the airport or other transit agencies, right?

It's not it's not either or it really is both and and so we can work to in fact that is one of the things that we we will recommend or do recommend going forward is continuing the evaluation of striking that right balance.

But I think it's uh it's a little bit more complicated than just what would it cost to make PS at PPS all C and PD, it's really what is that right mix, and we can we can work on that.

We absolutely will.

And that makes sense because they're obviously able to onboard, you know, they can recruit, but it's the onboarding process where I think that that we lose individuals.

And I've talked to the chief about this a while back, like and actually dissected the process.

Where are we losing candidates?

So if we can take a look at that report again to find out if there's an area that we can make changes to make it simpler to onboard officers, I think that that I mean it shows that it's potentially can be done.

I imagine those officers have the physical test and the you know the background and lie detector and all of that.

So we can certainly take some notes and get some information from this company.

So thank you.

Yes, ma'am.

And then lastly, I will talk about Dr.

Watlington.

I'm excited that this is coming to the safety committee.

Um this is a big problem, and we are passionate and we do care.

I the IBC process is broken.

So, you know, we talked we guessed there was a tragedy on 822, but there was also one on 828 when there was an officer involved shooting for a young person, the their family member tried to get an involuntary commitment order the day before, and they were denied.

So the the IVC process, if if that person, if that magistrate had issued that IVC process, the family member knew that that person was struggling.

And so then on the 28th, um the family had to call the police, and then that person pulled a weapon out on the police officer.

So then he was shot.

He did live, but now he's charged with attempted murder on a police officer.

So again, there's another person that should not have been in the community.

So I look forward to this process.

Um, Dr.

Wilington, when we bring folks to the table, let's definitely take a look at this IBC process.

I don't know what the history was for uh the Carlo Brown and the and the involuntary commitment, but it's definitely an area how we how we can get folks the help that they need because it does save lives.

Uh that's all I have.

Thank you.

All right, Miss Molina.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Um there's been so much said tonight.

First of all, thank you guys for the information.

I think um I think with the death of Irena, our city is looking at some very important decisions as far as public safety in our transit lines.

Um it's uh to be completely transparent to to look at the national landscape and see Charlotte there.

Um it's a bit heartbreaking to see the city that we all love so much being, you know, um elevated and and so much um discussion around what we intend to do at the municipal level.

I have always envisioned municipal leadership as the most nonpartisan leadership that there is.

Streets aren't partisan, public safety is not partisan.

It doesn't matter where you sus you know subscribe politically, everyone deserves public safety, everyone deserves road infrastructure, everyone deserves affordability, and being at the municipal level is the most grassroots level of all, in my opinion.

Um and within the scope of our ability as municipal services, what I find is you know, it's tough because since this did happen in Charlotte, you know, even though it's intergovernmental, even though there's so many dynamics, um, we own it.

Um we own it as a city, we own it as a municipal government.

Um, and now our responsibility and our complete challenge is to bring an intergovernmental lens to something that is so very important, like I said, regardless of where you sit politically, what your race or ethnic background is or anything like that.

And so what I'm looking forward to first off is um I know that our state legislative partners are having responsible conversations right now around Irena's law and what that will mean about delegating additional resources for there to be levels of accountability once our you know public or private law enforcement um intentions are manifested where that you know, where be it someone who is breaking a law or et cetera, um, we are going to need intergovernmental um cooperation, and I think that's been said more than once around the dais.

Um I um I I had a lot of questions, but a lot of the questions were already answered with regards to CMPD and this being a private service, um, and just to set expectations for the public and their consumption.

Um this is a contract, this isn't a permanent solution.

Um just reiterating, I'm I'm one of those people who believe in iterating the details to make sure that that consumption is you know well taken.

Um that's set to expire in 2026 with the possibility of extension.

Um this is areas adjacent to the C CTC, um, which is the trans transit center in Uptown.

Um East Trade Center, the the sidewalks, the entire rail trail, um, and then Eastland and the Rosa Parks Community Center.

Is that right?

So that's basically everything that we have that's transit related.

Is that right, Mr.

Cagle?

Primary facilities plus the blue line, and then the East Trade is the gold line.

That's what that's referring to.

Okay.

Um let me ask you this because I've I know that this is your professional opinion.

Are we doing right now everything that we can with this, or is there something different that the council should be considering?

We are taking action, we have been taking action and we'll continue to take action.

And we acknowledge there's more that we can do, and we're committed to doing it.

And so, yes, right now we are taking action.

Um August 22nd and before we were taking action and we'll continue doing that into the future.

Um I think when it comes to security, right?

You're never done.

Um you're constantly evaluating, analyzing the data, understanding the needs, and you're making those changes.

And so I I think the simplest answer is yes, we are taking action and we'll continue to do that.

And our security approach will continue to evolve into the future as we meet the challenges to come.

I like that answer.

Um, Mr.

Cagle and actually Mr.

Jones.

I the one thing that I've also enjoyed about service at this level is getting to know our law enforcement officers and the sacrifices that they make in the pursuit of our public safety.

Um I'm heartened to see an opportunity for them to continue service.

Uh a lot of them that I've met along the way have retired very, very early.

What I would consider to be, I mean, if you start with CMPD, you know, um 20 years old, you're retiring in your 40s, which you're extremely young, right?

With so much vibrancy and ability to continue service.

Um, and and I'm heartened by the idea that a lot of these partners are some of our own and some that have come from other locations.

Um I do trust that.

Um I'm encouraged by that.

I would personally like to have our state legislature consider ways that for the officers that would like to continue service with CMPD, uh, ways for them to continue, sir.

I think I've brought this up to you more than once, Mr.

Jones, uh, because I've I've seen quite a few of our officers retire really, really early, what I feel to be early, and they're still great human beings with so much service left.

So, you know, I see this in one light as a continuum of our public safety um uh leaders to continue service with us, but I I'd like to see us in the future look at how we do that in a way that um you know, maybe reorients that talent.

Maybe it's a conversation that we have at the state legislature.

I think we will need their partnership in order to right now.

I think what life is teaching us is that public safety is one of our top priorities.

And how do we make sure that we continue to look for innovative ways to create that staff pipeline and keep that staff pipeline vibrant, right?

Um I know with friends and family that serve in our military, and actually I was going to commission myself as an officer, so I know quite a bit.

Um I like I said, that level of service and and keeping that continuity is a is something that you know I've spoken to the manager about multiple times, and I'd be particularly interested in, you know, how we get creative about keeping our pipeline strong with our officers and the talent and and things of that nature.

But you know, based on the discussion and and your professional opinion and understanding that you know the one thing about a project baseline is that it has key milestones where we monitor and control that baseline, right?

And we make modifications, and like I said, there's no, especially in the wake of such a tragedy that has drawn such attention.

I don't know if there's a definitive, we have the answer, right?

Um, I would like to earn in you know, on an interim basis the trust of our community as they look at us and realize that we're adept enough to make responsible decisions.

Um, and I do feel confident enough to say, based on some of the discussion and the milestones we intend to meet that this is a great step in the right direction, you know, notwithstanding that there's more to do.

So I appreciate the work.

Um I look forward to continuing the conversation about our um public safely pipe, you know, our public safety pipeline, because I think that's a very important question.

Um and and conversation to entertain.

Um I I'm hopeful.

I'm very hopeful.

Um thank you, Mr.

Kegel, Mr.

Manager.

Thank you very much.

Miss Brown.

Yes, my colleagues have said everything a lot.

They've said a lot.

I do want to add though that CMPD uh shouldn't be a sole provider of safety in our city.

I say that every time all hands need to be on deck, and because I'm so so close connected to the marginalized community, and as Dr.

Watlison has said, community of second chances, uh re-entrying back.

CMPD, they're great human beings, but they have their hands completely full.

And uh Ms.

Mr.

Cagle, thank you so much for all the hard work that you do.

I want a question for you.

Did you connect with CMPD?

Uh is there some data with CMPD to make the decision to cover the transit without having CMPD involved?

What details went into that?

I'm just curious to ask that because I know that CMPD's busy, and you call 911 and now you go on hold.

So I'm just I wouldn't completely be opposed to CMPD.

They they control the whole city.

Uh 900,000 plus people, and then 157 people moving into the city daily.

We're gonna we're gonna have a lot of crime.

And crime is gonna continue to be out of control.

That comes with a big city.

I like to see the blueprint and the specifications that we're putting down to control it.

But I that question for CMPD, was this a collaboration to say that you're gonna hire the private security team, or was it something that the city just made a decision to do?

So the private security, the decision for the MOU, predominantly using private or company police has been a decision that's been in place for for many, many years.

Um what we do is collaborate with CMPD, and I will say that collaboration, that cooperation has become stronger over the years as we're working together to provide security, safety, not only throughout transit, but throughout the community, right?

Because many times there's not a it's hard to tell the difference, right?

Cats is part of the community, and the community is part of cats, it's all together, and so the company police model has been utilized by cats for many, many years.

Um, I'm not sure how far back it goes, but clearly, as uh we have continued moving forward, that has always been and will continue to be together with CMPD as partners because really ESS, PPS, their mission and CMPDs is the same.

So you can't take CMPD out of the equation anyway, because that are sworn officers to serve and protect in this great city that we live in.

However, I just want to have that question of being isolated specifically to the MOU, and because we're heightened in the spotlight now because of what recently happened, which is is a is a tremendous tragedy, but you know, so was Jace Edwards.

You know, that what happened to the four-year-old, I'm not gonna excuse what happened to the four-year-old not long ago and and and his family, and then we lost one of our own, one of the catch drivers.

So it's it's to me the the scales have to be balanced, and they're way unbalanced for um an incident that blew up, rightfully so, because it was a tragedy, but I'm being remiss to say there's been more tragedies that I've seen since I've been sitting on council and and I, when you laid out the safety plan for us in one of our meetings, I went down the list on how many incidents we had had in in cats, you know, that were really tragic.

So colleagues said everything, it's a lot of stuff being said.

I wanted to point out that CMPD does need help.

You call 911, you get put on hold.

You know, they're they're stretched wide and far and and all over the city, trying to do everything.

I've always been the one that said C CMPD can't do everything in the city.

You know, they do great work, but having all hands on deck is what we should be moving to with the model.

And then with 157 people moving here.

I want everybody to hear this.

Just listen to the sound of my voice.

And it's going to continue to happen.

We have to see how we can control it.

But if you think it's going to go away all night, you might think again, it's not going to happen.

It comes with having a big city.

Thank you.

Mr.

Mitchell.

Thank you, Mayor and Council.

Uh, and to my colleagues, I just think it's been great points made, great conversation.

Miss Ratliff, uh, let me thank professional police services for being a committed partner with us.

Um this is very important to all of us.

You can tell by the comments as we restore confidence uh with our passengers on our light rail and our transit system.

And so I want to echo Mayor Pro Tim question, Brent.

Um, we need action immediately so it could be visible so people feel more comfortable.

Uh, what I would like to suggest, uh, Mayor and City Manager, maybe at our October business meeting to give an update.

I don't think this should be the last time we have this conversation or or get data back.

So I think maybe having an update where we are at our October business meeting will be helpful, not only to us, but to our citizens that we continue to make sure we move in the right direction.

Uh Brent, thank you for your honesty.

I I think we had a conversation from Secretary Fox at Tuesday morning breakfast, and he talked about there's not a perfect transit system in America.

And I think what we need to continue to do is make this one better.

And this is step one.

Um, I think having a relationship with some of our delegation is step two from a policy standpoint.

Um, and then there's a funding.

I I appreciate my councilmember Driggs putting it out to the table very early to our citizens.

If we want to continue to make sure we have a safe transit system, it's gonna cause us to have a great budget conversation in next June.

And so we all around this diet need to get prepared for that.

Citizens, you need to get prepared for that, how that might look.

But I'm glad that we're having the conversation and uh let's continue to do our very best and make sure our passenger feel safe on our light rail system.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you.

Thank you to the entire council for the opportunity that you've taken to speak with our cats, folks.

I do too want to say, PPS.

Um, you have done a tremendous amount of work.

Um, people we we're at a situation where I think Brent and I went through this in a way when we had the derailing of the cars.

Remember that's happened and how difficult that was.

But this is about human human life, and so I believe that the work that you do is especially important because it is where you have to meet people where they are, and that means sometimes that it will be good, it might not be the best, but I hope that everyone understands that we're trying to do this with people and in the first place, and then how they are treated and what we can do to make sure that they are able to continue to live in the city, but also the ability for you to help protect them.

It's not just about you know taking someone out of it, it is about how do we make sure that they can stay in.

So I really appreciate that, and um thank you very much for the work that you've done.

Now I believe that um I'm trying to remember if there was a motion, but I think I'm gonna read it again for item 11.

There was a motion to adopt a resolution to expand the jurisdiction of professional police services in DBA professional security services in areas adjacent to city-owned transit assets and authorizing the city manager to negotiate amend and aid agreement with the professional services and to um do this.

So we have a motion on the floor.

There was a motion.

There was a motion on the floor, and we had a second from right.

So all in favor, please raise your hands.

Thank you.

I believe that's unanimous.

So let's um thank you very much for the work that you're doing, and we look forward to the results that we need to make for all of our city citizens.

Okay, so the next item on our agenda is a municipal agreement for Brown Greer Road Upgrades project.

Um for approval A and B, Mayor.

Second, we have a motion for A and B and a second.

Is there any discussion?

Hearing none, all in favor of the motion, please raise your hand.

Is anyone object?

Hearing that, so we'll move on to the next item.

Um the item is 13.

Adopt a resolution authorizing the manager to execute a municipal agreement with the North Carolina Department of Transportation to accept surface transportation block grant, direct attributal funds in the amount of 15 million plus a little bit more.

Move for approval A and B.

Second.

We have a motion and a second.

Is there anything anyone have anything they'd like to add?

Hearing then, all in favor of the motion, please raise your hand.

Is anyone opposed?

No one is opposed.

Our next item.

Um item 14 is a donation, and that's going to be deferred until our next business meeting.

We're deferring it.

I'm sorry, Miss Mayfield.

No, I was clarifying we're deferring this item.

Item 15.

14, sorry, 14.

Item 15, there's a motion to adopt a resolution authorizing Charlotte Water to apply for funding from North Carolina Clean Water State Revolving Fund in an amount not to exceed 10 million dollars for the construction of the ash plantation lift for lift station force main.

And do I have a motion?

Motion to adopt A and authorize B.

Second.

We have a motion.

Any discussion?

Hearing none.

All in favor, thank you very much for staying this long to be a part of that vote.

So is there anyone that opposes?

All right.

Okay.

Hearing none, all in favor.

We didn't vote.

We didn't vote.

We did it.

We did it.

Okay.

The next one is item 16, authorizing the city manager to apply and accept a grant from North Carolina Department Public Safety's Hazard Mitigation Grant Program.

We can approve.

We have a motion and we have a second.

Any discussion?

All in favor.

Raise your hand.

Thank you very much.

17.

Adopt a resolution authorizing the city manager to transfer property to the North Carolina Railroad Company as a part of an exchange required by the city's lease with the North Carolina Railroad Company.

Move for approval A and B.

Second.

Any discussion?

Hearing no discussion.

All in favor.

Anyone opposed?

Okay, thank you.

The next item is item 18.

Is there a motion to approve construction contracts and a cumulative amount of 1.7 million for the development of four affordable single family homes with accessory dwelling units on city-owned parcels?

Do I have a motion?

So removed.

Second.

Do we have a and we have a second?

Is there any discussion?

All right.

We have Miss Mayfield and Miss Mayfield.

Thank you, madam mayor.

I'm waiting for staff.

I'm giving them a chance to get to the podium.

Give him a staff a check to get to the podium.

And Miss Hefner, how are you doing?

Thank you for joining us.

Like y'all are.

So for clarification, this request is to fully fund the construction of housing using our pedagogies.

This is not a percentage of the construction, which I will say I have a challenge with that they are coming to us to ask for the total cost to build Chris Dennis.

So I just wanted clarification of understanding that that's what these requests are for.

Sure.

Thanks for the question.

Good evening, y'all.

Rebecca Hefner, Director of Housing and Neighborhood Services.

So this is actually the accessory dwelling unit pilot program, separate from uh the program that's rolling out this week, the full program.

Uh you all will recall we've been talking about this for a couple of years because actually piloting ADUs is uh a very challenging activity.

So this is the city utilizing city-owned land, uh, three in fill part parcels and existing neighborhoods to pilot the construction of a single family home with a detached accessory dwelling unit.

So out of this investment, you would uh get four affordable home home ownership uh units and four rental units in the ADUs.

So the we asked, we put out the RFP, meaning that we we asked for the cost of construction.

We pay for that construction, and then the units with ADUs will be sold to eligible house Charlotte households.

For clarification, eFix Development is asking for 880,000.

That is for them to fund two homes that will then be sold.

420,000 is for the construction of one home.

400,000 is for the construction of one home through the opera dollars.

So this isn't hitting our trust fund dollars.

I want to be clear that there's no cost over there, but we are funding the full construction of these homes for them to then be sold what I of which I would then think that these homes are going to be sold under this amount since what our 80% AMI is because 420,000 is market rate.

That is the cost that you can go into the market now where nine of ten chances, especially since we have used government land that we have donated towards this, that we're paying the full development cost for these to then be sold at a price for our workforce to be able to afford it, meaning they're going to be sold under the amount of construction.

That's correct.

So subsidy will remain in the property.

As this is a demonstration, it's a pilot, it's a demonstration.

So we're sure we're demonstrating how that works.

It's even demonstrating how you get a how you get a mortgage on a home and ADU.

So there's a lot of moving pieces to the pilot.

I appreciate that.

I look forward to council receiving an update once these sell that to let us be able to track who was able to actually qualify and benefit from this to see if this was the strong investment that we hope for.

And I and I will add that because this is city owned land, uh, you will actually get to see this again when the properties are conveyed to homeowners.

And so this will be House Charlotte eligible homeowners, meaning uh 80 per maximum 80 percent AMI.

Slow down because you're creating another conversation because I need us to have as much transparency as possible.

We're getting ready to pay these three developers using opera dollars for them to build these.

So we're covering, we're paying you to build these.

Developer, you ain't build it.

We already don't pay for this.

So then we're going to sell this.

In theory, okay, it's gonna be sold on the market.

We done.

But what we're saying is we have paid this money for you to build it, and then when it's time for it to be sold, we are going to assist third-party you to be able to buy this that we already paid for.

That's gonna be a much longer conversation to explain that logic to me because I'm not understanding why I've already paid for the creation of something that is basically to help community, but community, I'm telling you, you need to buy this, but we're gonna help you buy this.

This should already be paid for because I've already paid for it in the construction.

So House Charlotte eligible buyers doesn't necessarily mean that they're leveraging the city's down payment assistance.

It means that they are a household at 80% AMI.

So yes, subsidy will remain in the units, and they will be sold according to that program eligibility.

I look forward to seeing what that sale looks like to ensure that we get it to our community that's most in need, and I truly hope that whether it's three months or seven months from now, there is not a request for money or any of these properties that we just paid for.

You will get to see it again.

So this is one of those situations where uh you you take one action now and another one later to ensure that.

I paid the manager Hervey.

I did.

Okay.

Thank you, Ms.

Johnson.

Thank you.

I know thank you.

Thank you for the questions, right?

Now, okay, so I wanted to understand, because we've approved or I recall discussing an ADU pilot before, right?

So is this an extension of that or is this phase two?

So in let's see September, October 2023.

Okay, you approved uh five point nine million dollars of ARPA funds to support a range of recommendations from the NEST commission.

Included in those recommendations was to fund uh accessory dwelling units, including the pilot program.

So we have been working for several years to develop the pilot program.

Uh and we've we've done that in fits and starts, meaning we would take one, you know, it's a pilot.

We would go down one avenue and run into a barrier and pivot.

And so this is the this is the result of the pilot.

Um we pivoted to you the utilization of city owned land in order to move the pilot forward.

But this funding, 1.7 million, is a part of the overall 5.9 million investment that city council approved for those nest recommendations, and this one comes back to you, of course, because it's a construction contract.

Okay.

So you all know I'm from Columbus, the original 14th largest city, right?

I got knocked down.

Yeah, we got knocked down, which is fine, but we have experience in doing things.

So that we had a land bank where citizens could access city-owned land, right?

So when we had this pilot discussion before, it was important that to me and I recall residents having access to the pilot dollars.

Because when we talk about equity and fairness, you know, it's like the rich get richer, right?

And where are the opportunities for the everyday folks?

So I remember residents having access to this pilot.

It doesn't appear that we're we're doing that now.

So I I want to understand, like councilwoman Mayfield.

So the developers, they're developing and building the home, so they'll they're going to get paid, obviously, right?

For the purchase of the home.

Or the construction.

This is part of the construction contracts.

So one thing that's a little bit different is that typically we put out the city-owned land when it's larger parcels for developers to um to give us a proposal and for the development, and then they rent or they sell.

This is a little bit different because we're doing it as a pilot.

We're the city is contracting for the construction.

So, yes, the construction company will be paid for the cost of building the home and each accessory dwelling unit, and then those units will be sold to low-income homeowners.

Or 80%.

It don't go.

Low moderate, so 80% in AMI and below, homeowners.

So the ultimate recipient of the subsidy and the benefit and the ongoing benefit of owning and managing the ADU goes to homeowners.

So the homeowner will own the ADU also.

Yes.

Okay, so they'll they'll own the the parcel.

Yes.

So what restrictions will they have as far as the land and selling the property?

So that again they'll have the same restrictions as you would see in our um in our uh House Charlotte program.

So it they'll have uh deed restrictions for the length of the forgivable loan.

So the forgivable loan is a 30-year term.

Uh and then the ADU is a deed restricted rental unit, so income restricted and must be rented to a low or moderate income tenant.

So that's how you end up with two affordable units on each property.

Okay, so we'll require we require the homeowner to rent to a specific requirement, I guess, right?

Okay.

And then I I want to understand the eight hundred and eighty thousand dollar contract also.

So will the this developer need to sell the property at eight hundred and eighty thousand dollars?

No, the property is not being conveyed to the developer.

So this is one parcel, it will be it will be subdivided into two uh lots, so there will be two single family homes, each with an accessory dwelling unit, and the the develop the land is not being conveyed to the developer, the city is maintaining the city-owned land.

We are contracting with these companies to conduct the construction and build of the units, they get paid for their uh for their construction activities.

Okay, and then the city at you know at this point the city through the whole process, the city maintains ownership, and then once it's complete, then the city sells to the uh homeowner.

So the the consumer through through a through a realtor.

And I don't want to I don't want to be labored, but but if it's there's they're building it for 880,000, how what would be the sale price?

Because a person at 80 percent, if the numbers are still the same, that's about a 96,000.

So uh 880,000 gets you uh four buildings, right?

Two single family homes, each with an accessory dwelling unit.

Right, right.

But if you are at 80 percent and you make and your household makes $96,000 a year, you don't qualify for $880,000.

So uh they'll be sold separately.

So think about it as the uh I don't know that the construction contract that they're two identical um units, but let's say for for um conceptually speaking, here it's four hundred and forty thousand dollars of investment in the construction on each parcel.

But the owner so then the they they will not be sold for that full four hundred and forty thousand dollars, they'll be sold at at a cost less than that.

Um that subs you know, the the difference is essentially the subsidy that the city leaves in the property, just like you leave subsidy in uh in House Charlotte, or you leave subsidy in rehab and you leave subsidy in um multifamily communities, and that subsidy is left in the property and it essentially buys you deed restrictions for a period of time.

Okay, all right.

I just if you if you if your household is 96,000 a year and you qualify for three times the amount of your income, I don't see where they would qualify for eight hundred and eighty thousand dollars, the value of the construction of the homes, both properties, so um it would be they wouldn't be sold together, they will they'll they will be separated and be sold separately.

But you said the homeowner owns the home and the ADU, yes, property but eight hundred and eighty thousand dollars is a construction contract that builds two homes and two ADUs, so each half of that is approximately four hundred and forty thousand dollars.

Yes, so okay, all right, good.

Okay, thank you.

All right, all right.

Um Mayor Pro Tem?

Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Mayor, and uh Ms.

Hefner, you know, we have had conversations in the the communities within District One for quite some time.

Yeah, so I'm glad to see here, yeah, that there's movement here and it is a demonstration project.

I know that Belmont is is looking forward to participating, but as we had those conversations, there was also uh a parcel across the street in Villa Heights as well.

Can you just update us on where that one is?

Did we pivot away from that?

Uh are you are you referencing the adjacent parcel on Pram?

That was part of the community engagement discussions or or are different parts.

Because a part of the community engagement discussions were two parcels.

And right across the street from one another, it's just that on the other side of the street, it's villa heights.

And so I know the community is going to be asking what happened to that parcel.

So the um the community consensus about that second parcel was that they wanted to see something that was not only residential, but perhaps commercial or had some mixed use.

So that parcel remains in the city's portfolio of properties that we're working to activate.

Uh and uh it's just not part of this demonstration project specifically because of that community feedback.

Okay, great.

I just wanted to make sure that we had that uh discussion out loud so the residents would understand where we were on that.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Ms Sajmira?

Yes, uh thank you, Madam Mayor.

So I have had this conversation with Ms.

Hefner earlier today, because this is a new program that we are piloting.

So the way I look at this, this is just the construction call contract.

Um it's gonna come back to the council for housing piece.

Um so after we talked, I know we I asked the question how much of our construction costs will be recovered, and you had mentioned it was 50 to 70 percent.

Is that correct?

Um so one point seven.

Yeah, I think that that's the percentage of the based on the numbers I gave you.

Thank you for doing the math for me.

Okay.

So you know, when I add up the numbers, the return on investment, this is a very exp very high per unit cost.

So first of all, if you factor in the land cost, which I have not even factored in, you look at for um per unit, roughly three to four hundred thousand.

Uh that's considering ADU.

Then you look at uh House Charlotte program that council member Mayfield had alluded to earlier, even though it may not be cities funds, it is ultimately the funds that could be used by other families.

So when you look at the per unit cost, it's really high.

And I know that when we have looked at our housing trust fund out proposals as they come in front of us, we've gotten really smarter.

Uh, thanks to Mr.

Heath and your team, where we have reduced our per unit cost anywhere between I have seen as low as 20K, 30K.

To see this, it's very difficult for me to make sense of this.

Um I can give you a little rundown of the per unit if that's helpful.

Well, what I would like to see is how much is the developer's fee?

How much is the construction fee, right?

Because ultimately when we look at our housing trust fund proposals, a lot of developers actually remove their developers' fee.

So are we seeing that in this project?

Do we have a breakdown of how much is the construction materials and labor and how much is the developers fee?

I can certainly provide that for you.

I don't have it tonight.

Yeah, I personally think it's important for us to take a look at comprehensive picture before we before before I am able to get comfortable.

Uh we need to know how much is going to developers' fee, how much is going to construction, how much is going to materials and labor.

Um, and also we need to factor in land costs.

What is assessed values to really arrive at per unit cost?

And how far are we from our usual housing trust fund proposal?

I know this is ARPA money, I I get it, but at the end of the day, we need to be good stewards of our the money that we have.

Um just I want to make sure to piggyback on Councilmember Mayfield's point.

So when this comes back, because we own the land, they are just doing the construction, developers are just doing the construction.

So when it comes back, um will did I understand this correctly?

Will the seller, I'm sorry, will the buyer be able to tap into House Charlotte program as well?

Yeah, so I'll I'll I'll have to get details on how the how the per unit breakdown will go.

So one thing I will note for you is that often when you are funding home ownership, um, which is can be you know, we're averaging around 50,000 a unit for new production of home ownership.

Um you are you are also funding down payment assistance on the back end for those units.

So if if you if you calculate the average subsidy amounts that that are going into different types of affordable units, uh we're looking at it's you're trending about 50,000 for new homeownership production.

Um your uh around 50,000 for new rental, uh, and then the down payment assistance.

And so if we recover 50 percent, um which I would say would be the low end if we recover 50 percent of the costs, then your per unit subsidy that's left in the in the units is about is about uh trending on your average in terms of investment in rental units and home ownership production.

So yeah, I would like to see that comparison.

So what is our per unit cost at the end of the day?

I mean, that's how we evaluate all the proposals.

Why would we have an exception in this case?

Uh and and I think we really got to look at more transparency around the developer's fee, just like we do with our housing trust fund proposals.

Uh other thing, Habitat for Humanity.

You know, they do a great job, and it's a nonprofit model.

Uh did they not apply?

Did they not submit RFP?

I I'd have to look at the list of who submitted for for these particular parcels.

Because uh another thing we ought to consider as you bring back the comparison.

Uh we if you can also factor in the land cost, because that's not currently being factored in when I did my math.

Uh so that would be helpful.

But I think another path we ought to consider is have we considered partnering with organizations like Habitat for Humanity, right?

There they are always in need of land.

So this is a city-owned land, and they their developers fee is much less, or maybe none compared to the private developer.

So have we looked at that model?

I would be interested in seeing that.

Uh I'll have to see if they submitted in response to the request for proposals.

Perfect.

And the last thing I saw on the housing and safety committee, and I was just talking to the chairwoman and vice chair.

Uh I know this is a pilot program.

We are looking at innovative ways, creative ways to uh build more affordable housing uh with your help, Rebecca, obviously, and preserve more affordable housing.

I wonder if we need to look at this through committee process to figure out the details, right?

Rather than having to hash out all these details here, uh I think the committee would probably be the right way to go about it where we can really take a deeper dive.

That's all I have.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh Mr.

Mitchell.

Thank you, Mayor Pro Tim.

So Rebecca home run hitter.

Did I get the right home run here?

I'm sorry to get it.

I feel like I'm out of trip on the way to first place tonight, Mr.

Mitchell.

I just want to uplift this pilot project for uh a couple of reasons.

One, you know, we always ask our citizen to serve on our boards in commission.

And the NES, the NESCOM is been one of our most strongly talented advocate board that we have working for us.

And so to the members of the NES Commission, thank you.

Then we always get a question about anti-displacement strategy.

And this pilot program addresses the anti-displacement, particularly for district one and district two.

And I like the fact on 89 1809 Taylor Avenue, you chose a developer who's currently working in that community for a long period of time.

Chris Dennis and Efix Development have been renovating homes uh over 10 years.

So thank thank you for selecting, I think the right people.

Uh they're gonna do a good job for us, and more importantly, uh letting this pilot program come forward.

So thank you.

Um Mr.

Drix, and then we'll have Ms.

Molina.

Thank you.

Uh, Ms.

Havner, this is not a good explanation of the transaction.

I think it's clear, and I think the fact that it's up here for a vote tonight uh is is really unfair to us.

I mean, I I'm a finance guy.

I can't read this and and know what I need to know.

And therefore I'm not prepared to vote for it yet.

Uh I mean a simple question, how much are you going to sell it for, and therefore what is the actual cost to us going to be of the subsidy?

Right?

I mean, and we don't want to go ahead and commission these guys to build these places and not know the full scope of the transaction.

Um, I I would have questions too about the new owners.

They buy it, they own it, and then what?

You look at uh habitat and the and the whole process of the you know the loan, because they will borrow, right?

Up to that pet.

And uh what if they default?

Or I mean, there are just a bunch of things that I think we ought to be able to discuss.

I think the idea of uh referring this maybe the committee and uh and I can help, I mean I can work with you guys, but is there time sensitivity if we if we decide to refer this to committee, is this gonna overturn uh anything, or do we have time?

No, the the only time sensitivity is the typical one of standard construction escalation concerns, uh, but there's no there's no time constraints on this on on moving this forward.

So I'd like to move to that we refer this to committee.

We have a motion and a second to refer to the committee.

Yes.

Um I think Ms.

Mayfield, I know, but we have Miss Link Melina to also comment.

I actually I I just um I'm glad Mr.

Drake, I'm in agreement, Mr.

Drees.

Um I'd just like to make a comment that you know, quite often uh the members, although the district one definitely has uh East Charlotte in it, we get a lot of um comments that district five gets all of the affordable housing units placed there.

And I think on this council within the last year, there's been an um a large amount in district one.

Absolutely um I think the the largest majority of affordable housing units that we've placed have been in district one by by far per capita.

But um, I would love to have some additional conversations on this and and get some more information.

So all right, you heard the motion.

Um I think I had a first and a second, Mr.

Question for clarification.

So versus doing a motion to defer what we're motioning is for it to come back to committee.

That's what it's which in essence is a deferral.

That's right.

Right, it would be a deferral, but you can't do it.

Because it's going to committee.

So I think Mr.

Briggs said go to go to committee.

That's what I thought.

So that's what the motion is.

That's what I want to clarify.

All right.

Yeah.

So any further comment.

All in favor of deferral for the committee to review this potential pallet program.

Raise your hands.

Everybody's there except Rebecca didn't raise her hand.

I'm sorry.

Because like who else?

Oh, who else did not raise their hands?

So this person is a Graham.

So Mr.

Yes.

As well as Ms.

Brown and the Show.

The clerk, the nose.

Please raise your hand if as a nose.

No.

No's in a two-three.

Yeah.

Three.

Three.

Okay.

Motion passes.

Mayor.

I would just like to add, if we go out right now on realtor.com.

I'm looking at a four-bedroom, two and a half bath, two thousand thirty square feet on a.51 acre lot, three hundred and twenty thousand.

So I think it we have opportunity where not just this, but we it could benefit us if some of these conversations come back through housing, neighborhood services, public safety committee before coming to full council because some of these questions would have been asked and or answered prior to tonight.

I love the fact that we are utilizing the recommendations from Ness.

We also need to take into consideration the reality that we're dealing with right now in community.

And if some of these requests start back as once was done a number of years ago coming through housing committee for discussion, we very well would be able to get share whatever questions and concerns we have on the front end before it comes to full council, and then unfortunately have a discussion where we're now looking at referring it back to committee to get a number of questions answered.

Thank you.

Can I just do a follow-up?

Yes, sir.

But your example of the acreage.

Oh, sir, this is um a point five one acres, so just under an acre lot, two thousand and thirty square feet.

We don't even have huh on Taylor Avenue.

No, no, I'm saying a home right now, the cost of a home right now in the city of Charlotte.

No, no, I'm saying a home right now, the cost of a home right now in the city of Charlotte, which is a brick home, which we don't have that many of, but I was just giving an example of right now within the city.

We have a four-bedroom, two and a half, two thousand thirty square foot home that is on just short of an acre lot for three hundred and twenty thousand dollars.

We don't know the lot size, we don't know the size of this home.

Even though we know it's accessory dwelling, we don't know if this is 11, 12, 13, 14, 1500 square foot home.

We don't know the size of the lot.

There's a lot of unknowns with this particular request, but I think the opportunity is for us to revisit what was once done, and that is committee being able to review and have questions on some of these financial proposals and requests before it comes to Ford Council.

So I mayor to just go ahead.

So I I have no problem with the process.

I just want to make sure that we compare an apples to apples because on Taylor Avenue, we don't have a 351,000 home in that area.

So I just want to I that's when I heard the cost of that home.

I just want to make sure we're talking about District 2 and Taylor Avenue, and that's that example's not truly applicable.

Well, actually, this is off of David Avenue, which is in 28214, close to Mount Holly Honesville, which is an area that is very expensive.

So they have a great moment.

So I get it.

But I just think there it was an opportunity for us in committee to have some of these questions answered.

All right, so we're going to do um we've passed the motion that it be deferred to the committee.

Um, so next item on our agenda.

The next item on our agenda is to adopt a resolution to approve 2025 Charlotte Mecklenburg multi-jurisdiction hazard mitigation plan as an A and a B.

Do we have a motion?

Motion to adjourn.

Second.

We have a motion and a second.

Any discussion?

Hearing none, all in favor, please raise their hand.

Anyone opposing?

So that resolved that.

Um, for item 20.

Adopt we have a motion.

May I have a motion to adopt the proposed Charlotte Future 2040 Community Area Plans Volume 1, Program Guide, Volume 2, CAP policy and revised policy member.

To approve.

We have a motion and a um do I have a second?

Second.

You have a second.

Okay.

Um, Mr.

Driggs.

I just want to say, colleagues, we've had this for five and a half months.

Uh it was always part of the uh original uh plan framework.

We knew this was something we needed to do, and it's kind of critical for progress in our total planning process that we make this step because these plans lay out on a uh specific basis for specific areas, some of the details of what our goals are.

Uh the plans do not modify the UDO as such.

Uh in some cases, they imply a modification of the policy map.

But uh, we have had a lot of time to look at this and think about it.

There's been a huge amount of community outreach, and I'm just very hopeful that we can take this step tonight.

It won't be the end.

Uh as always, we will be in an ongoing process of uh uh revision, but I think we need to get this out and uh start to find out how it works.

It's um it is not half-baked.

This thing has been researched thoroughly, it's been developed by the staff.

We've all had months uh to look at it and talk about it, and so I believe tonight is tonight.

I hope we can get this done tonight.

All right, uh Mayor Pro Tem.

Thank you, madam Mayor.

Um, can I ask some of the staff to come up from the CAT team, please?

And as you come up, I'll I'll go ahead and begin.

I I agree with Mr.

Driggs that there has been a lot of work done on this, and I want to personally thank you, the team for doing that and leaning in to um some of my communities within district one.

Having said that, there are a couple of outstanding questions in a couple of the communities that I'd like for you to address.

The one which I think it was sent to all of council, but I know you know uh Dr.

Biddle Patton very well in Cherry.

You all have met with her, she is a phenomenal community leader, and um they still are struggling with the two areas uh that have that will be able to be upzoned.

And I wanted you to speak to the conversation that you've had, um, any modifications that you've had, the engagement with community on that particular issue.

Sure.

Good evening Kathy Cornette I manage the long range planning division and Charlotte Planning Design and Development I'm here with my colleague Catherine Mahoney who is the project manager and manages the community planning program area she is really the expert so I'll ask her to clarify a couple of things that we've agreed to with Cherry so we did meet with Dr.

Biddle Patton and other members in the community actually out in the community to to look you know in context at the sites that they were looking at we did make some adjustments and I'll ask Catherine to help me I think there was one that perhaps was it N2 or neighborhood two on the map and we made an adjustment on the policy map to neighborhood activity center.

Am I right there?

So there were four areas of requested change we were able to make uh changes to three of the four areas the fourth area is inconsistent with the mapping approach and is really um uh an issue with the zoning translation not the policy map uh methodology and we conveyed that to them in writing I think that was shared uh with leadership and uh both on their side and your side and um that was kind of staff's recommendation at this point we can we can meet three of the four requests from them and then it would be up to you I think your decision as to whether or not to adopt the policy map with that additional fourth change so specifically the areas of uh seven and eight and I'm sure if I'm not sure if you have that on your map but what was shared to me was the area along Baxter Street as well as the that's seven and then the area on Torrance Street which is eight those are the two areas of concern for them and in addition to that I also had um the leadership from Dilworth reach out as well again another very strong land use leader and they shared concerns as well I think and I know that Ms.

Johnson sent you all an email earlier asking about you know we've had a lot of engagement you've listened but how much of the listening how much of that has been incorporated into the actual plan so what you just said is a great example of you know there's a community the Cherry community asked for four specific things and you were able to address three of those specific things but do you have any kind of metrics around the the incorporation of feedback because I think there's some concern that some communities feel like they're being listened to but it's not being incorporated into the plan.

So can you speak to that?

Sure well there were over a thousand comments and there are 74 changes to the plan and we do have a few um breakdowns as far as the the number of changes the percent of changes that were incorporated but I think the larger what one thing I do want to stress is that in many cases the comments were not asking for changes they may have been questions or just general expressions of the amount of growth that Charlotte's experiencing both some folks in support of it and some folks not so I I do hesitate to we don't have all the breakdown of every comment we received sometimes there was duplicative comments as well at some certain point it's um there's not really any new comments it's just comments stated in a different way but all of the comments were reviewed cataloged categorized and if they were not directly incorporated they did influence the thinking that went into the recommendations within the plan and and one other thing I would want to make sure to highlight is that we're trying to treat the entire community consistently so a situation that may be happening in one part of the community may have the same policy implication as a similar situation in another part of the community we were very intentional about making sure when when Catherine mentions the mapping approach that that's part of that mapping methodology is to make sure that we're treating situations continuous consistently across the community.

I think a part of the consternation around this is there's some historical neighborhoods that are not officially uh designated as historical, right?

Through going through that process, but their historical neighborhoods all throughout the Queen City, and some of them want to ensure that their form or area plans are preserved in some level at some level with this new iteration of community area plans, right?

And Cherry is just one example, but there are others as well.

So I just want to make sure as we're going through this process, and I do agree I I am an advocate for having these plans approved together.

I don't think we need to we don't need to have part of the city with updated plans and other parts of the city not, right?

Because I think that might potentially introduce some other opportunities legal and otherwise.

So we do want to move forward with a full 14 area plans.

But I just wanted to underscore that for some of our historical neighborhoods that we're concerned about aesthetic and charm and preservation that we're mindful of that as we go through the plans.

And this work is dense, is very dense, and I like I said, I want to say thank you again.

I have several in District One, but specifically this one for South Inner is the one that I'm I'm getting the most uh pushback on in community.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

All right, thank you.

All right, so um Ms.

Renee, I mean Renee Jones.

Right, sorry.

It's getting late.

It is getting late, so I won't be long.

I'd like to make a substitute motion that we defer the um approval of the plans.

Um thank you.

And the reason I'd like to defer them because of Mayor Pro Tin mentioned her consternation.

There we can put some action behind that.

You know, um Cherry is one area, deal word, like you said, is another.

Um, I know there's a a neighborhood in District 3.

There's some concerns in the back creek area.

And and even if you look at the document with the proposed changes, there are like one, the environmental justice, and the the proposal or the response was we're we're adding this language, or there's further explanation, right?

So there's not changes, and then when you say we've heard from a thousand people and made 74 changes, you know, that's seven percent.

So again, we're we're we're making these huge changes to these neighborhoods to the character of these neighborhoods, and the the response is or the changes is in the single numbers.

And so we know what happened when we've approved the 2040 plan and the UDO and and what continues to happen when we have this low level of input.

Um, when we had a talk, and thank you for your availability last week.

We were able to have a conversation with one of the D4 coalition members.

Um, but even some of the questions, the response was well, will that will be addressed in the next phase?

And so, you know, that's what's happened.

So we'd like to have some more answers.

I think we need more time.

Um I was asked how much time we would need, and I mean some folks would say 30 days, but I know the at-large representatives you all are um your campaigning is realistically, and I'm I'm flexible with that because we I think we that our city deserves all of our attention on this.

And I said this you know, last month on the dais.

Like I can't speak to any of the plans in District 5 or District 6, and just because we're district representatives, we know that.

But our citizens don't care about that, and I think our our these plans and it deserves our attention.

What I think would be a great idea is uh is a webinar now with the the council members available to hear from the citizens, you know, with the feedback.

We you know the plans, here are the plans.

Um, and I think if we had these these webinars like we did before for the different groups, different time frames, and the council members hear from the residents because we're the ones that are held accountable.

So um I'd like to defer.

Um, I'm open to the the time frame if it's 30 days or 60 days, but I want to hear from the residents, and we don't want residents like Dr.

Biddle Patton, who's been engaged since the beginning.

She this is not someone who's just coming on board saying, hey, you know, uh Johnny come lately, you know, or whatever you might say, but she's been involved and she's been engaged and she's been very engaged.

And for her not to feel heard and listen to that's problematic.

I I will mention um if I can that that there are next steps.

This would not be the end of our planning, and I think Council Member Driggs mentioned the specific plans, which is the next level, and that's what I mentioned to you in our conversation as well.

So that's something that we're developing right now is that next level of planning that focuses on very small areas and unique issues.

Um that would be something like station area plans or environmental impact plans, um, activity center plans, again, focusing on very targeted issues in a in a much shorter time frame, but again, involving robust public input as we did in this process as well.

We also have a community area planning roadshow that we're pretty much ready to roll out to the community and also to our interdepartmental partners that would again continue this dialogue with neighborhoods, the the primary audience is neighborhoods to be able to get out into the community and have deeper conversations about the area plans and what they mean to you.

Um, and also incorporating the work and the recommendations from the area plan into the rezoning staff analysis.

So that's also something that we're prepared to do.

So we do, I don't want you to think that this would be the end of the conversation, or there wouldn't be other opportunities to look at issues as our community continues to grow and change.

All right, Miss Mayfield.

Thank you, Madam Mayor, thank you, Councilmember Johnson, for the amendment.

Do while we're having this discussion, since we did have an amendment amended motion and a second, are the conversations that we having now for the substitute motion.

This is part of that because we didn't say anything, even though we did have a substitute motion and a second on it.

Yeah, what what's on the floor is a substitute motion that received that motion and the second that motion is to be dealt with by the discussion now.

It is a motion to defer, so that should be deferred to a time and date.

And I don't think the motion includes the specific date of the deferral too.

You were talking about whether or not it's 30 days or 60 days, but there needs to be some direction for the council on when the matter will come back if that motion is successful.

So I I would say 60 days.

Um I just wanted, you know, is that a motion.

That was part of the motion.

Part of the motion.

I agree to the 60 days.

So now we're having discussion.

Okay, so in this discussion, Manager Jones, I have shared more than once the concern I have of us fast-forwarding 14 plans.

Staff had opportunity, and I appreciate the work that you're doing with what you just shared as far as the clarifying of smaller plans, that should be doing that's what we should be doing now.

We have a pool previous plans, and we are now looking at the impact of the language of unintended consequences, and we are constantly having to look at a proposal that comes before us, and in that proposal, this is inconsistent, but yet Miss Sylvia Bill Biddle Patton was extremely detailed in what she sent out.

She is not the only community member that has reached out.

So for me, even though I appreciate staff saying you have gone out, we must acknowledge that we have a history, and some of us have an office filled with books where community were engaged, and those books are sitting up on a bookshelf because less than 8% of what community said they were looking for needed was actually implemented.

So when you have a very specific request in here stating the impact of spot zoning, talking about the impact of an area based on our language that changed it from a community activity center instead of the N1, which was in our policy map, the impact of R8 to N1, the impact of no block splitting position, using our own language and seeing how this is negatively impacting communities, mainly communities that are historical communities in our city that have been almost ravaged.

When you look at Tucker CG, when you look at Freedom Drive, when you look at Marlowe, when you look at Columbus Circle, when you look at Camp Green, when you look at a number of the communities that have directly been impacted, which were once communities that had a say but still weren't listened to.

And then once we say, well, we're going to make investments and we're going to identify these opportunity communities, the community isn't who benefited from that opportunity.

New people moving in benefited from the so-called opportunities that we created.

But those who live there were heavily and overwhelmingly displaced and moved.

The idea that we can look at Colorado and other places and not understand and see some of the mistakes they made.

And also welcome the fact that they slowed down and said we're going to do the area plans independently because there's no rush on it if we want it done correctly.

We're constantly having to make changes based on that 2040 and that UDO.

So the idea of say, well, let's get through this part, and then we'll go back and fix it.

I don't trust the process.

I'm gonna be perfectly honest.

And I don't trust the process based off of the 12 plus years that I have either been or been around this particular process and things that we approved many years ago and how it was reinterpreted within a three to five year or a two to three council change period.

We have the opportunity to do something very different.

We moved up from 14 to 13.

Why?

Because they're losing people.

So we have to look at the reality that we're getting very close to a precipice.

And if we don't slow down and really pay attention to what our community needs, we are looking at in less than a decade, seeing that same mass exodus from our city that is helping to grow our city because of the fact that we are becoming unaffordable.

Part of our language is creating that space for that unaffordability.

And if the workers cannot afford to live here, then those workers are gonna find some place where they can't afford to live.

That is why I support my colleagues' recommendation on this deferral, but I it is tiring to have to keep repeating.

But we are losing our residents, and it's our language that is helping us to push out our residents.

So if we can't see the opportunity right now with everything that's happening on the national level, and everything that we know that's coming in 2026 based on what was approved in this bill and the financial challenges that's gonna create, we are doing a disservice.

Thank you.

All right, I believe um I've gone through the complete list, so I can go back.

Okay, and that's you have a little I know I saw you, but I didn't okay.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

So I don't know what is on the substitute motion.

On the substitute, we have a substitute motion on the floor now.

Is she done?

Okay, are you you're done?

All right, now I'm not sure.

Okay, and then I will go next.

That's fine.

No, it's there's other people ahead of you.

Okay.

Proceed.

Go ahead.

Okay.

Um I think about actually just about a week or two, we were at Grove Park.

Um, and we had a meeting in Grove Park about a buy right development.

And it's on six acres in the middle of that neighborhood.

Bless you.

Um, and with the by right development, um, I think it's 38 units that the owner wants to put there.

Um what we had to deliver to the neighbors at that moment was a mix of what's written in the 2040 plan and the word character not being able to protect them because of there being existing language that would allow that development by right, which would completely change the character of the neighborhood because there's already an adopted um policy on our books.

Because I wanted to say so much more.

I wanted to at the beginning of that conversation, be able to make the argument that based on the character of that neighborhood in East Charlotte that we could make kind of a decision based on land use, for an example, or some type of consistency that would have been able to protect those neighbors from having density plopped dead in the middle of their neighborhood.

And right now that can happen even without this.

And if they see something like this, and rightfully so, because it's not their jobs for them to understand land use language or development or petitions or things of that nature.

Um it's our job to do our best, you know, to disseminate that knowledge in an understandable way.

And I and I own that, but I don't want to make a resident believe that if we delay this that that stops, right?

Because that's already underway because of the 2040 plan, right?

Because of you know, the um the and and it's one of the reasons why what I've learned over this process is that when someone comes to us with a petition, they're asking us for an exception because we already have a plan, and that plan says that they can already do things, and it was already worked on for five years.

So when something comes to us and it's established as inconsistent with our existing planning, and let me make sure that I say and before that even comes to this council, we have a zoning committee that takes a look at it, and most of the time, if it's staff approved, it's zoning committee approved.

People don't even know that they can contact the zoning committee and say, we don't like this and you should stop it there.

There's kind of a two-fold, which is why before I leave this seat, I really hope that we take an initiative to offer some type of maybe ongoing ongoing training in perpetuity so that our residents know where they can engage with this process, right?

That it's not just council, they have a zoning committee that's been appointed by the council that can say yay or nay, agree or disagree with the staff, as well as petition the council and a number of different iterations.

We know that, but our residents don't, right?

Um if we go 60 days, you're gonna be with a different council.

You're gonna be really close to a different council from you will be holidays.

It because of the holidays and things like that.

You will be, and that's not a problem, but I think you know, and and notwithstanding that there's a an election season coming and people will be distracted, and this needs emphasis.

Um I just would like to make sure that we're specific about what we're saying and where we would like to take this as far as conversation purposes are concerned, right?

This council right now is somewhat adept.

You're going to get at least three brand new members who have to learn where the bathroom is before they're prepared to make any type of decision.

Um so that's something additional can to um also consider.

Um, but I like I said, I I just so from your perspective, this portion, what will it do or not do?

In other words, you were at the Grove Park meeting.

Would this have changed anything about Grove Park?

Is there anything that we could implement that would have given Grove Park in East Charlotte more of an ability to make their case with regards to character of their particular neighborhood?

No, because it was by right, and the entitlements are on the property.

This is really about shaping future development that's coming, maybe through the rezoning process.

This would give you more guidance for the rezoning decisions.

So this is more rezoning specific.

Rezoning decisions and capital investments and um gradual change over time.

That example was more of an immediate uh land development scenario.

Okay.

So having been on the TPD, the Transportation Planning and Development Committee, I've heard a lot of these updates, but obviously our colleagues around the Dais are like, we need more information, we don't feel comfortable, we're getting feedback from our residents that says X.

And like I said, I don't think it's a problem with continuing the conversation, but I think the milestone for consideration, uh, councilwoman is where you're going to have that conversation and when, right?

And and you know, and that's not to urge you to change it, but to be mindful of of when that would happen.

So saying out loud, making sure that I'm clear, you know, there are a lot of things that are happening as a result of by right now developments across our areas that are promoting density in the name of increasing affordability and a number of different other things.

This in particular is not something that would stave that off particularly because that is already adopted.

But I'm sure that there are things within this that maybe you know we could take an additional look at to make sure that there's clear understanding on this council before we adopt it citywide.

So I mean, I'm I'm open to it with that being said.

Um but I think Ms.

Johnson, it's a question of when, or you know, maybe that's an additional consideration for this body to say when you would like to have that discussion if if it is in fact approved.

Do you want me to answer that now?

Okay, wait, you let me go back to the question.

I think Mr.

Drake.

No, not not yet.

Ms.

Johnson is asking if she so sixty days is uh would be eleven twenty-two.

And there is a meeting on 1110, and also uh 1124.

So if it were 62 days or up to 60 days, and I just want to say when you talk about Grove Park, that was one of the areas that I thought of when I uh oppose the 2040 plan.

I have a friend.

I have a friend in Grove Park, her yard is you know six acres.

And there's no HOA.

So these I live in a neighborhood like that.

Yeah.

And College Downs, and there's many or uh neighborhoods like that.

So I understood I understood that.

I I would say I was right then, and I think I'm right now.

So um, yeah, so I I understand what you're saying.

But 60 days would would still give us time.

Okay, we have Mr.

Driggs and then Miss Ashmir.

So uh if it is the will of the council, then okay.

Um I'm just curious.

I'm hearing things now that it feels to me I should have been hearing as the committee chair and trying to move this thing forward three months ago.

I don't understand why some of these issues are now coming to the fore.

Uh what's been going on for the last five and a half months?

I do know that in committee we have had repeated engagement with the staff.

We've seen some breakdowns of exactly what changes were made, and it was explained to us.

And uh and I'm not certain that uh we're going to achieve anything in seven and a half months that we haven't achieved in five and a half months.

I think we're going to end up right back where we are.

Not everybody is going to be happy.

There will still remain work to be done.

And meanwhile, the the big picture progress towards the implementation of our planning and goals through the to pursuing the city that we want to be, we'll be held up for another two months.

We're not going to get to a place where everybody is happy.

It's just not going to happen.

And the question is at some point, do the opinions of a few people that are still dissatisfied justify stopping the forward progress on a plan that's meant to benefit the entire city.

I think we do have an issue with historical areas.

There is disruption that comes with progress and growth and the passage of time.

You can't freeze things in time and just keep them exactly as they were.

And every time we have rezonings, you hear from people who don't like the fact that their neighborhood is going to change.

Meanwhile, we are trying to reconcile that sort of desire to keep things the same way they are with the pressure of wanting to keep housing affordable and accommodate the influx of people.

If we don't accommodate the influx of people, what will happen is that housing costs will go up until they stop coming here.

But but they won't stop coming here until that happens.

And that's not going to be easy for the lower income people.

They're going to get crowded out.

So I think I don't see anything being accomplished by waiting for two more months.

And uh and I do see us then losing time in terms of moving forward.

And Ms.

Johnson is right.

This this council could act in two months' time.

Uh I mean the new council won't be seated until December, so I I recognize that.

I just really feel that we're not going to be any further than we are now, and we're still going to be talking about these issues, and then we will have no more excuses.

It's like we postponed, we postponed, and we're still not there, but uh in November, it's going to be time to do something.

And I don't think it'll be any easier then than it would be if we just did it right now and then carried on with the work that's been explained to us and do the things we need to do to uh to include the people, the pockets of resistance that still exist.

Uh I don't believe that we have a uh a large-scale popular outcry about this.

I think we have certain people who live in certain neighborhoods or have certain priorities that for some reason are normal more vocal now than they have been for the last few months.

But uh I really believe it's in the interest of the city for us to take this step and then just carry on with the work that we're gonna need to be we're gonna need to be doing this work for for uh a long time.

We haven't had the alignment process yet, we haven't had the special plans that are going to be done, the detailed plans.

Um I just wish we could take this step now and recognize that uh nobody is being ignored because we did the big portion of the work can proceed while the issues are still being worked on.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Well, uh a lot has been said by my colleagues, so I'm not going to repeat.

I I just want to thank uh Alison and Monica and the entire team for uh being accessible and um answering questions and concerns.

Uh, what I hear from my colleagues is really the translation of the comments into actual change in the document in uh community area plans.

I've heard similar to my colleagues, I've heard from various neighborhood leaders such as Stephanie Gardner and Dr.

Biddle Patton from Cherry Community, as well as we have heard from neighborhoods near the airport about their concerns uh around having manufacturing facilities too close to their neighborhoods.

And uh the concern is that some of this feedback, it's not from one person or two, but entire neighborhood, it's not getting translated and in making a change to the community area plans.

And I think that's where the struggle is.

So I hope that in next uh 60 days we are able to actually make changes to the community area plans based on the feedback that we have received from neighborhoods, right?

We are not talking about one or two neighborhood leaders, we are hearing from uh neighborhoods that have stayed active and engaged throughout this process.

Uh whether that's still worth, whether it's Cherry, or even neighborhoods on the west side uh near the airport.

So this neighborhoods have I remember meeting them when we first started the whole 2040 plan exercise.

And then now we are on to this, then we went on UDO and then community area plans.

So I think at some point council has to say that we got to chat we got to make some changes that are necessary to respect the existing character of neighborhood while also addressing and providing more housing so that we can um we can put downward pressure on house prices.

Oh that's oh I was just gonna respond, I'm sorry, to the um Stillberry Acres near the airport, which is the airport um neighborhood near the airport.

So we did actually meet with that neighborhood in the neighborhood.

Um and there are 33 changes to parcels that that they asked for that are being made as part of this process.

Oh it was a three to four-part um collaboration.

We included the airport, and you're able to come to that consensus of redesignating manufacturing and logistic parcels owned by the airport to innovation mixed use uh to make for a better transition for the neighborhood.

Well, that's great to hear uh that we did listen to the community because they were here at during our public forum, and we heard loud and clear from them.

Yes.

Um so I appreciate you being proactive in addressing their neighborhood's concerns around the quality of life.

That's all I have.

Thank you.

All right.

Mr.

Mitchell.

Okay.

Thank you, Mayor.

Let me start off.

I'm looking here in the book, August 4th, 2025.

The staff made a presentation of final proposed changes to the Transportation Planning Development Council Committee.

And so you all had this in your committee, but was there a vote in your committee about the changes the staff presented?

So this has actually been brought forward by the planning commission.

It wasn't up to the committee to make that decision.

Okay.

So we were briefed as members of council, and on behalf of the whole council, at the end of the day, the determination to bring it up for a vote was made by the planning commission.

Okay.

Okay, that's plain.

And so I guess this is tough for me.

One, we got people who we respect in the community that's that sent us emails about uh making recommendations and they wasn't included.

Uh secondly, uh I think we got the measure, we have to set expectations we defer this, right?

And and what is the threshold to say we have heard from everyone?

I'm saying in the book we received 2,520 comments to the planning process.

And so what constitute a comment moving forward to the plan, and I and I I'm just struggling exactly how we get our arms around that.

Do we say 10% gonna get incorporated, or we look at the merits of the comment?

Exactly.

And so I think around this diaspora we want to move forward, we want to move forward here in all the voices.

We want to move forward with something incorporated from the key voices.

And so I I don't know how to look if we defer for 60 days.

I think we got to put some more criteria because I think we'll be back here another 60 days with the same issues we're facing tonight.

So I I could I support councilmember Johnson's uh deferral, but I just want us to be very careful, Mayor.

And I don't know where the additional criteria would come from.

But we need to send that back to TAP and be clear.

I have Mr.

Graham Graham and then Miss Watlington.

I'll be quick.

I I I council member Mitchell read my mind that the the recommendation has to have merit for inclusion, and so I'm gonna support the deferral for 60 days, but and then thanks staff.

I remember when you guys first met with me in my office.

I said, talk to me like I'm a third grader.

I think I'm second year college now, right?

In terms of my understanding of what we're trying to do, right?

And I think the staff has done a lot of good work.

Yeah, um, so you know our city is not changing, our city has changed.

And going back to the 2040, UDO, all those are responding to the change.

And what we're trying to do here tonight is yet another step forward.

Not perfect.

A lot of neighborhoods and community folks will agree that they disagree.

Some members on this council agree that they disagree.

But I think these are positive steps forward, and hopefully within the next 60 days, we can come to a point where there's a meaning of the minds.

Um understanding, as councilmember Mitchell said, that these requests have to have merit for inclusion, and then the council can continue to move forward in terms of addressing some of the really uh uh growing pains and changes that we need to respond to based on what's happening with respect to respecting our history, legacy, and tradition for those who are Charlotte teens have been here for years, and at the same time acknowledging that this city is busting at the at the scenes and the measures that we're putting in place, while not popular by many, are necessary for us to be able to have balanced growth, balanced development uh with the eye towards the future.

So hopefully within 60 days we can figure it out.

Um, but uh at that point I think council really needs to make a decision.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

So I want Ms.

Wattlington.

Thank you.

Um similar to what councilmember Graham and um Mitchell have said, I do think that we gotta make it very actionable.

I don't think that just deferring it without taking any specific change in action is gonna be helpful.

Part of me feels like what we're having here is a conversation about this item, but is really about how we're choosing to grow, right?

And while I recognize that we've had the policy conversation some years ago, the fact of the matter is that it's a living document.

And so if it means that we need to have a real conversation about what based on what we've learned, are there some things that we fundamentally want to do different?

Then I think that's the conversation we need to be having.

As it relates to this specific decision, would it be helpful for, and I'm happy to help, but would it be helpful for the district reps to just go through their particular plans and just point out hey, these are the hot spot areas because I do get the sense that there's there are themes.

And it feels like we've still got some massaging to do there.

So I just challenge us to remember the the main thing, and that's that we're we want to come out with a plan that does reflect what the majority of our community wants.

Um, and if that means that it's a little bit of a different direction than what we thought, that's okay, but we got to have that conversation and just be real about that.

Um, and so I hope that within the next 60 days we can we can do that and make some tough calls and be willing to consider that what we believed was the best thing may not be what our community is telling us they want.

Thank you.

Yes, comment okay.

I think we the last I just wanted to uh make a follow-up comment.

Um I agree with what several of my colleagues have said, and I do believe that you know we have to embrace balanced growth and we have to move forward.

I recognize the work that you all have done.

You guys have done uh a significant amount of work, but I just want to be very specific around some action steps that we can take over the next 60 days.

So one point of of information and learning just in this conversation, you all had have quantified how you've listened to two neighborhoods and incorporated change into the plan.

I think it would be helpful if you could go through that in some way, whether it's a key sheet or some just some high-level metrics around how you have been engaging with community and baking it into the plan.

Um I know that the attack committee is very much scrubbed in.

I sit through those meetings as well, so I'm aware of it, but everyone might not be baselined on the various changes that you all have done and how you have worked throughout all 14 areas.

So I think that would be helpful if you can if you could go through that over the next 30 to 60 days and socialize that with community members as well.

Um the other piece is I think you know we know that change has occurred in in the city, and we're going to have to manage that as best as we can, but I think some demonstration of again, you've already done the heavy lifting, but some demonstration of how you know you've we've been thoughtful around certain neighborhoods, certain areas of Charlotte to do the both end, right?

To preserve the character and charm, but also create opportunities for growth because we do know that housing is one of our key critical factors.

So I I'm not I I'm not saying you all haven't done the work.

I'm saying maybe if you can show some of your work, demonstrate some of your work more explicitly to community members, council members, etc.

I think that would be helpful.

Um whether it's over the next 30 days or 60 days, but I think we need some specific action points that we can say when we do come back that you all have done it and we've had conversations and debate around it.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Okay, I think this has been a really difficult um conversation because I think that we have been doing all of this work.

We know that a lot of people that are happy or satisfied, and then there are others that aren't.

And so I'm wondering if it's a place where the staff will be able to actually say there is going to be this kind of effort in the next 60 days and who and who's including with it.

I think it's really important to have something that comes out.

But again, this is about this is about very difficult things.

You know, I think about whether or not we ought to be looking on, you know, who's moving here.

Who's who's getting the jobs here?

Because those are things just as important as some of the things that we talk about on housing.

And so we have plans for that.

So but do we have a plan that actually identifies what growth means to us?

And so I think that it can't be status quo if we're going to continue to grow, but at the same time, we ought to be able to give people a really good understanding of what's possible.

So with that, we have a motion on the table for a 60-day deferral for the um decisions on Charlotte's future growth coming back through the staff.

It hasn't identified nobody's identified who's going to be that staff.

Nobody's had anything except a time frame.

We're going to need more than a time frame.

It's going to need some process that's going to move this thing forward.

Or you know, just let's just tell us if we don't want to do that, and we understand that's different.

But I think in this case, we it I hate Allison.

You probably know more about this work than a lot of us up here, I think.

I've seen what you've been able to do in terms of transfer of the uh how you can build a community, and so I hope that there, Mr.

Jones, if it's possible that we have some guidance with both the real estate folks that um are helping us do this, the staff that's doing all of this work, and have some kind of plan.

And so I think Ed, I I don't know, but we need someone to lead this effort.

Can't just be 60 days and then oh, that's tomorrow.

You know, that's my fear.

So we need to have some leadership for this.

Um so if anybody's really interested in saying this is where we ought to go, I think it would be great to have that conversation with your colleagues to be able to say this is where we will have a document that will tell take us where we're trying to go with the staff doing the work with us.

So um vote.

We do need to vote.

Can and so everybody has spoken once, and so we need to go ahead and vote on the motion.

Except for me, and I ain't got a things.

Oh, that's right.

Um you're right.

Thank you so much.

I really do you want to no ma'am.

Thank you.

You've got to share some candy.

We have some candy.

All right, so we have a motion on the table on the floor.

All in favor for a 60-day delay.

Okay, that motion passes.

Thank you, everyone.

Opposed.

And one and opposed, we have one on opposition.

Um, you know, we still have a closed session tonight.

Oh my god.

Oh no.

Oh, yes.

Oh, yes.

We do.

We have a closed session for the proposal.

All right, so the next item on our agenda.

We leave out folks.

To cons oh, these these are appointments.

We have appointments to make as well.

Yes.

So and then we have and would you be willing to give up your council topic so that we can go into the closed session?

Yes, I will.

Okay.

Okay, thank you.

As so I think that's so let's see, right now we have these firefighters relief fund board of trustees.

Um, Madam Clerk.

Uh, yes, ma'am, mayor and council Lee Thompson has been appointed to that position.

Okay, thank you.

Everybody heard that.

So we're good on what did we say?

Lee Thompson.

Lee Thompson.

Interesting.

All right, so that concludes our business items, and we're going to skip um public council top discussions so that we can go back in and have our closed session.

Oh, you didn't really skip them.

We talked a lot.

Thank you for yes, that's very much so.

All right, so do we need a motion to go into closed session?

You need a motion to go into closed session pursuant to North Carolina Journal Statute 143-3811A4 to discuss matters relating to the location or expansion of industries or other businesses in the area served by the public body, including agreement on a tentative list of economic development incentives that may be offered by the public body in negotiations.

That says the motion.

So moved.

We have a motion and do I have a second?

Second.

Second.

Um all in favor of the motion, please raise your hand.

Oh anyone opposed?

Thank you very much.

Let's go back into the back room.

Let's go back into the back room and you can see that.