Interesting topic that comes up uh, I guess, periodically here on that end of it.

We now have five members of the council here, so you can be able to conduct a strategic planning meeting, so that's a good thing.

And uh, I uh was alerted at least that we were going to have a uh chair, uh Chairwoman Hill was going to be absent, and then also uh Vice Chair Noel is absent.

And then I went to section eight point three of your charter, which says in the event that someone is uh not here to be the chair or vice chair, then y'all can hold a special election at the beginning of a meeting in order to be able to conduct that to occur.

That is also uh what is the rules of procedure that y'all have adopted under Robert's rules of procedure.

And I had to get my uh earmarked section up to be able to find all that, but under uh forty-seven eleven of that rule that allows that to occur.

And so at this point in time, you can't really uh designate if someone's knowing that they're gonna be absent from a meeting, they can't authorize another person to be the chair in advance of that meeting, but it has to occur at the meeting that that you're in now.

So at this point in time, if anyone would like to make a motion here for who would be the chair pro tem of this meeting, then we can start.

I like to make a motion to a point uh understanding as our pro to this meeting and for our council meeting at three thirty thirty.

Second.

Motion and a second.

All in favor?

All opposed.

All right.

All right, we got it going.

Thank you.

Castle.

And uh happy new year.

Uh we've got a couple of items on the agenda for this afternoon that we may take look at.

First thing we need to do, I guess, is uh have the approval of the minutes from our last meeting.

So could I have a motion on the minutes?

So move.

Second.

Okay.

With no objections, those meetings will stand as recorded.

Uh couple of uh presentations this afternoon.

One is our rain smart presentation.

Uh German, they got you listed, but I think Maria's gone.

I was gonna take this one.

Oh, Haley.

Okay.

All right, and then we have a passenger rail in the initiative.

But I don't see Alice, is he still coming?

Okay, okay.

All right, okay.

Perfect.

So at this time, Hailey, if you'd like to come up and join us uh and give us the rain smart uh program presentation.

Absolutely.

Well, firstly, thank you so much for having us.

We're really excited to tell you more about this environmental initiative that is run through the stormwater division.

Um it is funded by our stormwater fee.

My name is Haley Hamblin, and like I say, I work with the stormwater division.

Um, my title is a water quality specialist, but my main responsibility is managing our Rain Smart Rewards program.

Okay.

I'm Isabel, I work for Waterways, and we assist uh China Yuga with the Rand Smart program.

Um I'm not working for the Waterways for 300 year, and I'm the watershed project coordinator, so I coordinate a lot of programs at Ray Smart Yards one of them.

So in this presentation, we'll introduce you to the program, kind of tell you why it was created, its impact that we're seeing, as well as some improvements to the program that Isabel and I have made and some tools we've developed in our collaboration with code enforcement.

Without further ado, um, so what is the point of Rain Smart?

Um, well, main point is to reduce stormwater runoff and keep pollutants from our waterways.

So that's protecting the public health and water quality, but also um very important to us is providing education and public um engagement offerings as well.

So RainSmart is actually mandated by our MS4 permit.

Um, this permit requires that we have an incentive program.

It requires that we reduce stormwater runoff with this program, as well as provide you know public education and those incentives.

Um, but as you'll notice, um, minimizing landscaping related pollutants, such as you know um fertilizers and herbicides and things of that nature from entering our waterways is part of the permanent.

So um also repairing stream cleanups, repairing plantings, which are mostly done through Isabelle's program, um rain smart yards.

So these are all things that are listed in the permit that we are required to meet, and Rain Smart helps us do that.

So we have gray infrastructure, everybody's very familiar with gray infrastructure.

This takes stormwater from one place and takes it to another.

Oftentimes it's going straight into the river, or maybe it's going to a mox and bend where it's then treated and released.

But green infrastructure, on the other hand, its purpose is to infiltrate stormwater where it lands, keeping that water out of our storm system, which is fabulous.

Um, in addition to that, I mean, this is also disaster like prevention and flood preparedness.

So the more native plants that we get in the ground, the more infiltration we have, the better prepared we are for heavy rain events.

And so um, we believe that stormwater management needs to extend beyond public lands.

We simply do not have enough space to manage the stormwater we need to in order to keep our waterways clean.

So by incentivizing green infrastructure and the planting of native plants on a residential property, we get much more area that we're able to have a massive impact on.

Um, you know, this Doug Tellemy quote kind of just gives you the scale of that.

Um, natural resources divisions work on our public lands really inspires our citizens and they really want to help be part of a solution, and Rain Smart gives them the tools and the guidance and the education and the resources in order to be able to be part of a solution.

So if you've never seen native plant roots before, they can be up to 15 feet long.

That's pretty amazing.

Um, on this far side here, you'll see this is turf circled in red.

Turf grass only has about two to four inches of depth.

So when you pour water on a lawn, it's really more like pouring water on a brick.

Whereas when you pour water on a native vegetated area, you have all of this porosity that's created by those root systems.

That means more infiltration, it becomes a sponge.

In addition, it filters pollutants and it absorbs excess nutrients, which is one pollutant that we do find in our waterways.

Of course, it reduces erosion and siltation is the number one pollutant in Tennessee waterways.

60% of Tennessee waterways are deemed impaired under the Clean Water Act.

So it also you know cools urban environments, so you get increased health outcomes, you know, beneficial health outcomes.

We also see that it sequesters carbon emissions.

It's huge for a city like Chattanooga, kind of in this bowl.

So, and also it requires less no fertilizer.

Actually, native plants don't need it because they're adapted to live here, and they require no mowing.

You have reduced maintenance, you might do cutbacks maybe once or twice a year with native plants, but no mowing is required, no fertilizer, so that's less pollutants that are even entering the environment to begin with.

So all good things.

And here's just another visualization so you can kind of see the scale of these in perspective with a person.

So here on this right-hand side, you'll see these are ornamental grasses in their root system.

While this isn't lawn grass, this is a common, you know, non-native ornamental plant that we see often.

Um it's not doing much because those root systems don't reach far enough down to have the same impact as something like a blue stem would.

It's pretty amazing.

So just wanted to point this out.

Um, we do not because of all of the reasons that I just stated, lawn grass doesn't really have any ecological benefits.

It again is a non-native, actually invasive species that takes away habitat from native plants.

So we do not accept lawn grass overgrown as a you know restorative effort.

Um, but on the right side, you will see intentionally planted native grasses.

And these we do love because they provide so much benefit to us, and they can be planted in contexts that look very ornamental, but it's all about the right plant in the right place.

And that's what we're doing with Rain Smart is we're giving homeowners that guidance.

But this is what we want to see more of, and maybe you know, we can scale back if we need to, but we'd love to see this.

And so I just want to point this out.

Um, again, we see a lot of ornamental grasses that are planted, and a lot of them are invasive species, but we're not doing anything to manage those.

So those are spreading not only throughout residential areas but also wildland areas, reducing habitat for native species.

So if we're not, you know, actively managing invasive species on residential property, we don't have biodiversity of native plants in wild areas.

It just doesn't happen that way.

Um, but there are beautiful native grasses that we can switch, you know, so we're constantly you know encouraging homeowners to replace their non-native invasive plants with native plants.

So there's always a one-to-one kind of alternative, and we can find what plant works best where, how we can make those beautiful in a similar context that you would see maybe a palm scrubs.

So and if you're unaware, you might even have some of these in your yard.

Hopefully, you didn't plant them.

But you know, these are ones that we see spreading all across Chattanooga.

A lot of these are still available in the nursery trade.

Lucky for us, you know, Tennessee, we're one of the only states that has outlawed the sale of privet, but you know, things like Bandina, if you're hiking on Lookout Mountain, you're gonna see this everywhere.

And it's planted in people's yards, and let me just say, our current overgrowth code says that we should be managing noxious weeds, that they should be prohibited.

And by definition, that the Tennessee Department of Agriculture uses, they'd kind of defer to the Tennessee Invasive Plant Council, which classifies noxious weeds as non-native invasive species.

So maybe we should just take a look at it.

We can keep going.

So because we've grown pretty unfamiliar with native plants with kind of the importing of you know urban landscaping, um, there's a lot of misconceptions that float around about native plants.

So we thought we might debunk some of those myths while we're here.

So one we hear all the time is what about snakes, what about mice and things like that?

Well, if we have balanced ecosystems, we're going to actually encourage predation of these pest animals, right?

Um, and of course, um any landscape can become unruly.

Look just a couple slides back at the overgrown lawn, you know.

Um, any landscape can be improperly maintained.

So native plants, they can be actually cultivated in a way that is still very aesthetic, but also ecologically functional.

We love that.

And attracting mosquitoes.

Are we creating environments for mosquitoes, particularly with our rain garden projects?

And the answer is no.

Mosquitoes take about five days to actually pupate, you know, become the whole obnoxious animal they are.

And native plants, as we've seen, they encourage the infiltration of stormwater.

So these areas that we see standing water, we can actually create those into assets that reduce the amount of mosquitoes that we have.

So are there any other misconceptions that you guys hear around that we can address?

What about armadillas?

Armadillos, did you know they're actually not?

Yeah, they're not native.

Yeah, they're because you know we've maybe some shifting temperatures, um, those armadillas are moving in to our area.

But didn't you hear that the alligators in Tennessee now too?

So, what are we gonna do about that?

Not sure.

Over in West Tennessee, so we're good now.

But I don't know what to say about the armadillas, but I can ask some wildlife management friends about that.

We like the coyotes.

All right, so and we'll get to the meat of the thing, which is the Rain Smart Rewards program.

So in past times it's been a little bit tricky for people to kind of understand how this all shakes out between waterways and the city's involvement.

So on the one arm of it, we have a set of rebate programs.

And so the way that we describe these, these are project tracks.

So you have one of four, or you can do more than one, um, and those are gonna be rain gardens, which is a capture and infiltration of stormwater using native plants, rain barrels, which were capturing and reusing stormwater, maybe for a vegetable garden or passive irrigation of a front flower bed supportscape.

So it's going to be a dense planting of native plants, so that's increasing biodiversity, stabilizing eroding soil, but most importantly, replacing invasive plants.

Um stream bank repair is one that we have just added to our series of project tracks, and that's because we did just see that incredible amount of rainfall, and we figured that the more repair that we can do of the vegetation on our stream banks, the better prepared we are for a Helene level event.

Um then on the other arm of it, we have Isabelle's piece of the pie waterways.

They do the stormwater feed discount program, which is incredibly beneficial for our residents.

Um, basically, they give a survey of properties and rate them from you know bronze to gold on their level of sustainable landscape maintenance.

And so, based on that, you'll receive 25 to 75% off of your stormwater feed, never 100%, because there's never perfect.

Alright, um, and this I think is a great example of the power of our supportscapes program.

This is Mississippi AF.

Um, on the right hand side, you'll see this really beautiful, densely planted front yard.

This slope aspect is actually the same nearabouts as the one on the left.

But the difference that you'll see is that on the left hand side you have sedimentation, you know, all of that storm water runoff is just going down the hill completely unobstructed, fast as can be, taking all of that sediment with it, and it's dumping it into the street and the sidewalk for myself.

And on the other hand, you have this landscape that's not only feeding pollinators, it's pleasing to the community because it in certain seasons, wow, it's incredible the blooms.

Um, but also, you know, slowing storm water, absorbing storm water, holding in that slope.

And this property owner, they installed this, and then several years later they put the house up for sale.

Um, and they said that it actually was one of the biggest selling points about the house for the new homeowner and the new homeowner has started doing the rain smart program as well, and has continued to employ the same native plant expert to maintain that landscape.

So, just a note too this is driving jobs in the city of Chattanooga.

The more people do this, the more specialized knowledge that we need to have, and those folks are finding you know more and more opportunities through the rain smart program and people wanting to participate in this program.

So our rain garden program has a massive impact.

Um at Heritage Park, do you guys remember how it used to just be flooded out behind the dog park and they you know replanted, restored that environment.

Not only did amazing plants come up, but now you don't have just a muddy field that's completely unusable.

We're turning unusable areas into community assets.

You know, we're we're directing the stormwater typically through people's downspouts, but it could be any impervious surface, whether it be the roof, driveway, sidewalk, um, and we are diverting that into these shallow, basically shallow basins that are planted with native plants, and they're designed to infiltrate within 48 hours, so well before any mosquitoes could have an effect, you know.

Um, so we really love that program.

Um and as of now, we're capturing just over 21,000 gallons of stormwater last time we calculated.

Um that's in a one-inch rain event, and some of these rain gardens, you know, are dug deeper, so we might even have be having a greater impact than we know.

But ultimately, we have over 95 native gardens that have been planted, and I mean they all are unique and beautiful, and they bring a lot of happiness to the homeowners and the surrounding community.

But here's what you're really gonna want to see.

So 21,000 gallons of stormwater.

If the city wanted to infiltrate 21,000 gallons of stormwater, it would need about 28,000 cubic feet, and each of those cubic feet is going to cost us about 50 dollars because we need engineers, we need the folks to do, we have to have those contractors.

Um ultimately we have that impact for 35,000 on residential property.

That means that city staff doesn't have to maintain it.

Um, we already have a very overwhelmed natural resources division.

Um, but it also means that there's more impact that we can have, like we said, public land is not enough to have the impact needed to make a meaningful difference.

So yes, and so waterways um manages the stormwater feed discount.

So this is a certification program, like Haley was saying, where we certify as certified yards based on their progress and management of stormwater.

Um, and if you don't know who waterways is, um we are a local nonprofit here in Chattanooga.

Um we have been around for about 22 years now, and we make positive impacts on watershed health throughout southeastern the southeastern United States and the Caribbean basin.

Um, and our mission, just so you guys are aware, um, our mission is to lead community action to restore waterways and protect the local ecosystems on which we all depend.

So a big part of our work is getting the community involved, educating people and seeing big impacts.

Um, and so the Rain Smart Yards program first began in about 2018-2017, and we worked closely with Chattanooga since then and collaborated with them to uh certify yards so we could look at the whole yard, and so there was a larger impact and protection of water quality.

Um, and this was really a program that started so we could help municipalities reach their MS4 permit requirements.

Um, and we don't only provide this program in the city of Chattanooga, but also throughout Hamilton County.

We partner with Hamilton County incentives, reimbursements are now given in Red Bank, um, and we're working with this town of Signal Mountain as well.

So we want to provide benefits to everyone, and these are free resources that residents have move on.

And so, yeah, really the idea is to involve as many properties as possible, um, and it's property owners as possible so that in the community, so we can have a greater impact on stormwater retention and stormwater runoff and reducing sewer overflows.

Skipped a slide, I think.

Um but waterways bases the certification process on a whole systems approach or the whole yard.

So this ensures the prevention of a host of non-point source pollution from entering our waterways, um, and it also increases ecological benefits.

And our survey process is inspired by the Tennessee Department of Agriculture, TDEC, TWRA, um TVA, T Dot, and these are recommendations for sustainable residential stormwater management.

And like Haley said, we have a um like a tiered system of stormwater fee discounts.

So depending on how involved the property owner wants to be, um they can manage stormwater from a 25% off discount up to a 75% off.

Um, and so that also just ensures everyone can participate and also gives kind of a goal for people to work towards.

And then Waterways offers free workshops to the community.

So this is that education piece that helps MS4 MS4s meet that the um yeah, meet their permit requirements.

And yeah, this is just to show that the community is engaged in the program.

We actually surveyed Mayor Tim Kelly's property.

We did not pass the certification, but he's working on it.

Oh my goodness.

So yeah, does anyone have any questions?

Yeah, we're not quite done with the PowerPoint point, but questions so far.

Oh, presentation.

If you open it up for questions, we might not get back to them.

Alright, and I just wanted to throw this on up here so you can see, you know, these are all local organizations and collaborative partnerships that we already have.

So clearly, you know, resource management and restoration is highly desired in Chattanooga.

I mean, it's one of the selling points for people to move here.

Almost all of the outdoor organizations do stream cleanups, you know, Tennessee River Rescue and all of that.

So we should really lean on our community to be doing this work.

And of course, these programs, these incentive programs for green infrastructure incentivizing, are not uncommon, they're extremely common nationwide.

Um, and just a little brag on the stormwater division here in the city of Chattanooga.

We have been called kind of the cutting edge of our industry.

Um, and when we gave a similar presentation, a little bit different about the Rain Smart Program at the Cesswa Conference, which is a regional stormwater professionals conference, um, it was the highest rated presentation, and we were asked back for an encore so more people could be inspired by the program that we have.

So I think it should just be noted that what we do in our division is very celebrated, and we're very proud of the work we do.

Um also um we've done uh quite a bit of work to guide homeowners with that right plant, right place kind of idea, because we too want to see Chattanooga be an aesthetic beauty, but we also really want to prioritize ecological functions.

So these are cues to care that a homeowner is educated on before they install their project.

Um, and this is kind of guided us and um how we were thinking about maybe some property maintenance guidelines that we could instate.

So why don't we talk about that a little bit?

Um, yes, these are three of our rain gardens that um meet those cues to care beautifully.

I mean, this one's full of water doing its job right now with these deep-rooted sedges, and I mean they've got curb appeal, they're just beautiful.

All right, so these rain smart property maintenance requirements, um, they didn't exist until uh Isabel and I stepped into this program.

Um, and so we have worked on kind of figuring out what what is the baseline, what is going to be our aesthetic standard across Chattanooga and how do we make it more clear?

Um, so this is what we've come up with.

Uh, we wanted to identify non-native lawn grass as not being able to exceed 10 inches in height, which is what is already stated in our code, but it it says overgrowth, right?

Which is not technically a scientific word.

Um, so we wanted to just make it clear so everybody understood what the intention was and what the expectation was.

So native planted areas, they need to have a clear border around them that can be satisfied with either, you know, we don't want to make this inaccessible to homeowners.

Um, stone borders can be very expensive.

So if it's fallen logs on your property that you can cut to size, we'll accept that.

Um, it could be bricks, could be stone, it could be a mode border or a weed whack border, something that shows the area is defined and intentional is what we are looking for.

Um and any native we we really prioritize visibility in our installation.

So we say that any native plants that are planted within two feet of a roadway or a public sidewalk, they need to be maintained at no taller than 10 inches.

Um so that kind of, you know, have you ever walked down the sidewalk and the zinnias are just exploding and falling onto you?

We want to avoid that.

Um so and also we have a rain smart uh stewardship guide that guides the homeowner through seasonal maintenance of their landscape, also and applies the cues to care as well.

And just so you all are aware, this is in our homeowners agreement.

And so every homeowner has to sign a maintenance agreement for that says they have to maintain it for five years at a minimum.

Um, and so they acknowledge that they understand these requirements.

Now, if there is an issue or a complaint, we have worked with code enforcement to create this system, this procedure.

So say a rain smart yard received a complaint.

That code enforcement officer has this their job is going to go out to that site and do that initial inspection.

If it is a rain garden support scape, stream bank restoration rebate project, they will contact me.

And then one of us, whichever respective person, we will go out and inspect that property ourselves because we understand that we might know native plants better than other folks, so we want to assist in that way.

And then we're going to actually consult with the homeowner and code enforcement.

We're going to take notes down of whether or not we think they're in compliance and give that homeowner you know guidance of what maintenance needs to be done to get back into compliance.

And so the homeowner and code enforcement are aware of what we prescribe.

And then that homeowner is notified that they have 10 days to get back into compliance, at which time code enforcement will go back out to the site and it will be determined whether or not they are in compliance.

If they are not in compliance, they will receive a formal violation, such as anyone would.

So that's how that works.

This is our current overgrowth code.

And so homeowners have in the past been very confused about what maintenance needs to occur with their native plantings to be in compliance because is a native plant overgrowth, is a noxious weed.

We should define these things.

Just so we can also prioritize, we want to prioritize aesthetic quality, but we really need to prioritize ecological function in addition to that.

So we'll just give you a minute.

All right.

And so with all these improvements that we've done, we also wanted to kind of reach out to code enforcement and be as helpful as we could possibly be.

Is it a rain garden?

Is it a rain smart yard?

What do they have?

And we plot that on a map, but also we're tracking compliance.

If that property is active or inactive, are they receiving a stormwater fee, discount, and things of that nature?

And so this includes council districts, it includes watersheds.

So not only is it a fantastic tool for code enforcement and us to be able to communicate visually like this, but also we can see where our impact is happening, and we can aim to kind of create more dense practices in other areas that might not be utilizing the program to the fullest and see how we might be able to uh incentivize them or give them more resources so they're able to.

Yeah, we also do on-site education, so we'll go out to properties from time to time with code enforcement officers and kind of discuss what is going on in that landscape.

Um we share ample resources with them.

We've given them trainings on apps they can use to identify plants in the field, as well as just a wealth of native plant and invasive plant information that they can view.

Um, and we have offered, of course, any time they would like to have us there, we will come and we will do public engagement offerings right at midtown with them.

Um, and we've developed some new educational signing signage and door hangers so we can increase neighborhood awareness.

So, you know, if you see somebody that's killing their grass in their front yard, you're probably thinking, what is going on there?

Um, so these door hangers kind of notify the most nearby neighbors to let them know that this is a city authorized restoration area and what that all means, and giving them a call to action, hey, you can also participate in this program.

How many moral apps do we have?

We do have any.

We do have another presentation after this.

Okay.

All right, and here's the end.

So just as a conclusion, this program has so many benefits for our community, you know, improved ecosystem health, flood reduction, disaster mitigation, most importantly, saving taxpayer dollars.

I know we all love that, and easing pressure on an over an overwhelmed system.

So that's how we would like to leave it.

All right.

Thank you so much.

Really appreciate the time.

Council Harvey.

You had a question, and then maybe Councilman Claw.

Yeah, thanks for being here.

Um, if you've been out towards my district, you've noticed two behemoth structures being built on our 75 water storage tanks.

So I think this is incredibly important.

Um, so we can cut down on what happened just a few months ago with the flooding on that 24.

Um so if I as a resident of Chattanooga want to participate, how do I get started so I don't plant a bunch of kudzu in my fire beds?

Sure, sure.

So I mean the first thing you're gonna do is you are going to fill out an online application.

We have marketing materials all over town.

You might walk up to a sign, hit that QR code, takes you to our website, apply now.

Um it's gonna ask you a series of questions.

What programs do you want to participate in?

What are your goals?

Um, do you have any ideas in mind for your landscape?

Um, then you will schedule a site visit with myself, and I will come out there and give you personalized consultation and advice on what's the right plant for the right place, what are your stormwater, you know, issues that we can address with native plants and kind of set you on the right track to implementing something that is ecologically functional as well as aesthetically pleased.

So just Rain Smart website is that RangeMark.com, what's the website?

I wish that it had a shorter QR code.

Okay, um because I have evidence that in Range Smart in the search field, yeah.

Some materials I will pass out that will have that QR code.

Okay, and you'll find the Rain Smart Yards um resource on that page as well.

We like to package it as one.

Okay, also small small um shout-out.

I played uh my bluegrass band, I play banjo, I play at the water uh waterways fundraiser every year so you can see.

Yeah, it's mountain covered bluegrass band, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Love him.

Smaller.

Okay, I'm good.

Quick question.

Could you go back to the enforcement slide?

I don't know who's who's operating the slides, is that you my question is is that how many times did you pull that door up?

I am so distracted.

Thank you.

The uh how many times can a rain smart certified program go in and out of compliance before they're permanently kicked out of the program?

We're thinking three times.

Okay, is that specified in your the maintenance guide that you all sent out for the memo?

I think you said that was like a memo or some kind of guide that you all sent out.

Yes, um, in our procedural form, it is there.

We haven't given this, we haven't shown this procedure to the public.

But if you would suggest it, I mean we're having a lot of people.

I'm suggesting it.

Okay.

So if they go in and out of compliance one time, there's an inspection, and then it's a repetitive process, uh, and they're not in compliance.

Is there current policy in your guidelines that permanently removes them out of the program?

And if it's not, can you adopt that?

It it has been adopted internally, it's not something that we have kind of put out into the public for them to know, but we we can let them mouth for sure.

I would hope.

So there's a guide that goes out that says if you're not in compliance, it that is sent out to the people who are applying for.

Is that correct?

Okay, I would I would suggest that that be in there so that they are aware that this is not like a cycle, like get your yard uh in compliance.

Quick question MS4 per Councilman Plough.

So we wanted to get this in front of council before we pushed any of that information out to make sure that we were online with everybody here, and then we were gonna push everything to the public on that.

Sure.

I'm I'm gonna I understand that uh MS4 permit.

Could you explain in short the the amount of time that we have left?

I know the presentation will be off 25 minutes.

Explain to us, I'm not a fan of acronyms.

Most of us are new.

Yes, sir.

Absolutely.

I have a stormwater veteran here that can probably sum it up a real quick for it.

Could you explain what the permit is and what the requirements are as far as does it specifically name Rain Smart program as a requirement to meet that permit requirement?

Incentive programs that um help find with financial incentives and education for installing uh green infrastructure and namely native plants is stated in the permit.

Gotcha multiple times.

And explain to us what the permit is.

I can't.

This is this is the expert.

I don't know what MS4 sounds like something out of man in black.

So I'm I'm Joshua Rogers, water quality supervisor.

MS4 is municipal separate storm sewer system.

Right.

Um EPA has a Clean Water Act.

They say, states, I want you to take care of implementing the Clean Water Act.

And then the states say, cities, counties, I want you to be uh taking care of this.

And so then they write these permits for us, and there are permits for large MS4s, which are gonna be Memphis, Knoxville, Nashville, Chattanooga, T Dot, things like that, and then there's small MS-4s, which are gonna be the you know, uh single mountain, you know, small stuff like that.

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

My last question, Chip, and it's in regards to the overgrowth uh ordinance that we currently have on the books.

Could could you go back to that slide?

Sure.

That didn't have the whole ordinance either.

I didn't think it did either.

Yeah, these are these are the meat of the meat of it.

Okay.

So the rain smart program, we voted as a council to include the rain smart program native plants as an exception to our current 10-inch rules as far as what we consider grass weeds of underbrush.

Is that right, Phil?

With the inclusion that those homeowners follow the property maintenance requirements.

Gotcha.

Yes.

There's really no definition currently in the ordinance about what is a noxious weed.

Right.

It does not define what is a bush, shrub, vine, or ground cover.

So those are things that would need to be looked at if we're gonna make revisions to 21136.

In addition to 21137, which is not up here, is also the provision that talks about liens that can be applied to the property in abatement that can be done if the property is maintained in a manner that is inappropriate, and that's not something regarding a discount that you get on your stormwater piece.

My issue, and I'll just so you guys could know on the council with the with the program.

We did have a complaint about how the rain smart program in my district, which in its proper implementation, which I'm for the rain smart program and its ecological advantages of absorbing.

I think that's amazing.

I've got about five of my district, some of them have implemented it quite well and meet the both the aesthetically pleasing portion because that's important because not all of us care about this.

Um, and like me, I will never have that type of native grass a part of my landscape.

I I have a well manicured lawn that I I like, but I don't want to knock anybody else that is for this program.

However, my concern is is that when we look at overgrowth, uh, to some native plants are obnoxious and what they look like as far as their curb appeal, and I wanted to make sure that we had guidelines in place, which I'm happy to see the inspection process.

Not happy that it's not spelled out in what non-compliance look looks like for permanent expulsion from the program.

I hope you guys will I like to see that.

Um but my concerns that I noticed that without a picture in there, would have when the rain smart yard is not in compliance.

Um, and I have those pictures, and I'll be more than happy to share that with council.

But um, I'm curious to see how we can make sure native plants remain aesthetically pleasing, absolutely, and that when we require other residents who opt out not to be a part of the program, uh that we're all following the same guidelines as far as what overgrowth looks like.

We're in agreement absolutely.

And and I just want to mention, you know, we're both very new to these positions, and trying to get properties that have been in the program retroactively back into compliance has been very difficult.

So moving forward, we're really confident that the um maintenance guidelines that we've created address those things.

I appreciate that.

Absolutely.

I just and I really appreciate that you all have addressed it as maintenance guidelines.

I mean, that is equitable for all of the other residents in the city who have to maintain um compliance, and rain smart people are no different, um, in my opinion.

But I like the program.

I like the um the indigenous species plants and the native plants that I was not privy to that.

Maybe I do want to plant.

But in my and when you have a yard that goes out of compliance, it's not a good selling tool for your um the program.

And so I'm happy to know that you all have implemented those guidelines and are helping us be more educated about what native plants are.

But I I would like for us to go back because I noticed this was not the slide that it was on, but there was a slide that talks about what non native plants are that it's I think it was all the rules, I can't remember what it was.

That was the slide I was referring to, but it mentioned um maybe it mentioned non-native, it was uh I thought it was part of our code.

Uh-huh.

Is it at the beginning, maybe?

Yeah, or no.

You guys came loaded with slides today.

We do.

But anyway, so I I just want to make sure that the native plants there was a there was some language in there, and I thought I had written a note that I wanted us to go back and take a look at it as far as native grass versus overgrown, and there was some language in there, and I thought I had written it down.

And there was some language in there.

And I thought I had wrote it down.

Anyway.

That's all I have.

And I that was another point you mentioned about the um the job growth stuff.

Do you guys have data that supports that?

Like that these type of I would love to see that.

Like how environmental programs like this uh feed into the economic development as far as job creations.

I know you mentioned that.

I was like, oh, I would love to see that data.

Yeah, we can pull our numbers of contractors that have been utilized through Ringsmart.

And I'm certain that we can find some things for other municipalities as well.

For the most part, I'm pleased with this program.

I I would love to see us be a little bit more stricter with inspection and code enforcement with yards that come out of compliance, and then what we do to retro retroactively put them into compliance.

And if that takes you know, some legislation from the council that I think we would would prefer that.

So thank you so much.

Thank you.

Any other council person?

Got a question, comment?

Haley, I would like for you to reach out to me later.

To go out to John A.

Patton.

We piped a parking lot out there and created a lady garden bottle swell in the middle of that.

My number one complaint out there is how that looks in the summertime.

We need to do something to make that more aesthetically pleasing.

But you can just reach out to me.

Thank you all.

Thank you all so much.

Next up is our passenger rail initiative.

None other than Ella Smith.

Hello.

If you would please hope everyone's doing okay.

You got about 20 minutes.

Take your time.

All right.

20.

Stretch out.

Well, the long version, you say.

Okay.

Um you got it.

Here's the pressures we're talking about.

Thank you.

Boom.

How about that?

Um, maybe.

Okay.

All right.

So uh hi, I'm Ellis Smith.

Um good to see all of you.

Never venture before.

Uh today we're talking about passenger rail, and I wanted to give you folks an update because we've been making some progress on it.

So some of this information may be familiar to you, and some may be new.

And uh feel free to jump in.

This can be interactive, ask questions anytime as you go through it.

So uh always try to give Mayor Credit Kelly credit.

This was his brain child.

You know, he started talking to the uh, I think we had a mayor at the time in charge of the US Department of Transportation, and we thought it was a unique opportunity for the mayors of four cities to come together and ask for um for funding for this corridor between our cities as opposed to what you normally see, which is states or other organizations do it.

And we put together an application and it was granted, and Chattanooga has been holding the clipboard, so we are the lead agency uh for this four city consortium, which is Chattanooga, Atlanta, Nashville, and Memphis.

We also are partnering with the T Dot, obviously, and and GDOT.

We have good partners down in Georgia who we work with quite regularly.

Also, Tim Andrews at the Hamilton County Railroad Authority is a is a great friend and partner.

Uh we also work with uh the MPO here, Melissa Taylor is kind of my partner in crime on that, and then of course Dalton Atlanta, Nashville, and Memphis are also helping us out.

Um and so kind of the new news here is that we are in the process of putting together a compact, a Sunbelt Atlantic Rail Compact as we go through this process.

Um, you know, at some point, uh, you know, Mayor Mayor Kelly's facing you know the term limit.

Almost all the mayors are uh involved in this.

Some mayors have already termed out governor, we're about to lose you know, Governor Lee at some point, and so it's really important to have an organization that can continue to carry this uh effort forward.

Um so talk more about that.

But we're putting uh folks on there who we think will be integral to uh to keeping it moving.

Um let me back up first.

What are we talking about?

I know that uh I think all of you were around when we talked about rail probably 10 years ago or so, and it was this Maglev thing.

We're gonna levitate a big old train down the median of I-75 and somehow get to Hartsfield.

This is not that.

Um that would be fine, but it would also be very expensive.

Um, extraordinarily expensive, as they found out in California when their MagLive project was canceled because they spent many, many dollars and did not build any rail or stations.

So what we're doing instead, we think is a little bit more practical.

We're using the existing rails that today already connect Chattanooga, Atlanta, Memphis, Nashville.

There are CSX trains right now, this minute, as we speak, that are transporting stuff, people, things that you use every day between those cities.

What we're proposing to do is very simple.

Use that rail that we got right now already and put passenger trains on it.

So if it's so simple, why haven't we already done it?

Well, um the reason for that is since the 70s when uh a lot of these passenger routes went away.

You know, we used to we have the choo-choo, which used to be our big passenger terminal, now it's not.

The freight networks have pretty much used up all of the capacity, the bandwidth, if you will, on these rail networks that used to be used to have some trains on it.

And one thing, if you've ever flown and you think, okay, I'm gonna, it's gonna be an hour flight to it to Atlanta or wherever, and then that turns into like an eight-hour thing, you're not gonna be very happy about that.

You're gonna tell your friends that it wasn't a good experience.

You're not gonna want to do that again if you can help it.

Same with passenger rail.

If it's supposed to take two or three hours to get to Nashville, and you get behind some kind of a slow freight train, and that turns into an eight-hour adventure, you're probably gonna take a different it also defeats the purpose, right?

Which is that passenger rail is is reliable and uh it doesn't have to stop for traffic.

So, what are we doing?

We're building sightings, building sidings and double tracks.

So the freight trains can move over, and the faster passenger trains can pass them by.

Um that's the whole game, that's the entire project, that's what we're working on.

What did you call it?

Sidings?

You could call it sidings, you could call it double tracks.

So in areas where there's one track right now, just a place where they can pull over and get out of the way.

Using the existing right of way, which is usually it's already there, normally it's much wider than they than they require.

We would just add another set of tracks uh for that freight train to shunt over out of the way, and that pasture train can go on past.

Um so that's what it's called corridor ID.

I'm trying to spare you some of the lingo here.

We're not the only one.

There's a there's a bunch of uh other routes going on.

North Carolina and Virginia are probably the best examples.

Um there North Carolina is probably 10 years ahead of us.

They've just done really amazing things over there.

I actually got to ride on those rails, and it was uh smooth and fast, they're going about 70 miles an hour.

Um, and so compared to um you know, when you try to get out to um you know, district one sometimes, and you've got all that traffic.

I mean, just it's doesn't matter if you're going 80 for part of it, if you're then going five for another part of it, right?

So being able to have that consistent speed at 70 is really helpful.

It's a three-step process.

We're getting ready to exit thanks to the hard work of uh Melissa Taylor and our um our contractors at WSP, which is an international engineering consortium.

Uh we're poised to enter step two of the program, which is really where we get into project plannings.

Step one scoping is really putting together a business plan.

How many people do we think are gonna ride, where are they gonna want to go, how much are they gonna want to pay, when are they gonna want to leave?

Uh, what's the economic impact of that?

Think about tourism.

Think about if you've ever had the pleasure of driving to Memphis, it's quite a long drive.

And you don't have the opportunity to really enjoy the beauty of Tennessee because you're probably white-knuckled on that steering wheel.

But now imagine you're in a passenger train making that same trip.

Maybe you're a family from you know Ohio visiting Tennessee for the first time, and that is a good way to increase our our sales tax revenue, right?

So um, oop, sorry about that.

Let's get rid of that.

So let me go back.

We're we is it gonna work?

Should we really do this?

Is anybody actually gonna ride it?

These are all good questions.

Uh we think yes, T Dot thinks yes.

Um the um, you know, you guys have all noted that our roads are pretty crowded, both here in Chattanooga and uh and in between our cities.

Um passenger rail avoids a lot of that.

Um it's not just something that we dreamed up, am track ridership is up uh across the nation, and it's a big benefit.

Anytime you can move anybody who took economics classes, you know, anytime you can move people to their work more efficiently, or you can you can make it easier for people to go pursue leisure activities, you are creating value, you are creating economic impact, right?

Yes, sir.

First bullet point is it's supposed to say 30% decrease in commute times, I hope.

Oh no, increase.

Uh if uh all other things being equal.

We're our our state uh is woefully underfunded.

This is without passenger.

So just looking at looking at uh the way things currently stand.

No, it's a good, I'm glad you flagged that.

Thank you.

Um North Carolina, as I mentioned, is doing great.

Uh 1.2 million riders in 2023.

I highly recommend if if you folks get the chance.

If you find yourselves in North Carolina, give it a ride.

Why is that 2023?

We don't have any updated numbers.

I haven't updated the numbers.

I'll take the demerit for that.

Um, same for Virginia.

Same for Virginia.

They're doing extremely well.

Now Virginia has a little bit of an advantage because they're in that DC metropolitan statistical area.

So I give them a but they are sort of southeast state that's that's pulling this off.

So what would our economic impact be?

Well, this is per TASSER, the Tennessee Advisory Commission on Intergovernmental Relations, which is kind of the um you can call it Tennessee's kind of government accountability office or whatever.

They're kind of the scorekeeper for the for the state.

They think it would be about a 20 billion dollar economic impact.

Um it's also a real estate play.

You see a lot of transit-oriented development.

Right now, our development, again, is as many of you are noting the pain associated with development lining up along road corridors because that's how people get to work, things like that.

When you add rail as an opportunity, you have transit-oriented development around rail, so people can live farther out or in other places and then commute in to the city.

They don't have to pile into Udowa and uh you know, et cetera.

So that's that's a uh a helpful thing that really revitalizes a lot of these small towns.

Um it stimulates household spending, construction jobs, and obviously you save time when you're not sitting in traffic.

And the other thing I would submit to you is when you're driving, uh, you really ought to have your hands on the steering wheel.

I know everybody here does that.

It's uh but when you're in a train, you can use your computer, you can use no guilt, and you can use your phone, you can get up and use the bathroom, you don't have to stop, you can grab a bite to eat.

And so you're able to keep moving while being productive.

Uh or as it's pointed out to me, some people may just want to take a nap.

Um so we are on the map.

This is the proposed network from the federal rail administration.

You can see on the right, uh, kind of zoom in.

There's the the Nashville, Chattanooga, Atlanta.

I will point out that the the TASSER recommended sort of a two-tier system on passenger rail.

So the Nashville, Chattanooga, Atlanta route is tier one.

They're saying that's the one we really need to get.

Tier two, slightly lower priority, is the Nashville and Memphis.

So that's why you're not seeing that uh on there.

Um here's our corridor.

You can kind of see it there, going from Nashville or from excuse me, from Memphis in the west up to Nashville and then down through Chattanooga to Atlanta and ultimately to Savannah.

Um it's not just that.

I I want to be I want to draw attention to the fact that you're not merely connecting, you're gonna do this thing in legs, right?

So you'll probably do Chattanooga to Atlanta or Chattanooga to Nashville first.

But you're not just connecting those two cities.

You're connecting if you connect Chattanooga to Atlanta, you're connecting to the entire rail network, all up and down the eastern uh coast there and up to Chicago and and so forth.

When you connect to Memphis, same thing.

You're going down to New Orleans, you're going up to Chicago and all points west.

So, and and the other side of that coin is you're connecting all those people to us.

Alex, I've got a question.

I can't see the what what is the dotted?

Those are the corridors that are that are currently proposed.

Proposed.

So some of those corridors, if I remember this correctly, are expansions or enhancements to existing rail, and some of them are new corridors.

Ours is a new corridor.

And then you'll see that red line there going, that's uh proposed by North Carolina, and we're working with them on this.

That's gonna be a high speed rail connection from North Carolina into Atlanta that they're also working on.

So but these are all proposals, like what we're looking at.

The dotted lines, yeah.

And the red dotted lines.

Yeah, and that the red line is simply to denote high speed.

Yes.

Gotcha.

Okay.

Here's a closer look at ours.

Um we are we're looking at again, this are these are CSX lines that already exist, uh, but we can deviate from those if we want.

Um we'll we'll probably try to stick with existing right-of-way, frankly.

It's cheaper, faster.

Um, one interesting little factoid the line between Chattanooga and Atlanta uh is not owned by CSX.

It's owned by the state of Georgia.

And the state of Georgia and their lease agreement with CSX has specifically called out the fact that should passenger rail uh be a thing that they want to pursue, that that will take precedence and priority.

So um so again, a lot of great opportunities along this uh corridor here.

Can we get the general back?

Well, we can't talk about that.

Okay, all right.

Yes, yeah, that's part of the plan.

Actually, they rode the general up here for uh for the uh was it the Medal of Honor celebration?

And I did ask that question, but uh anyway.

Uh well that if do you would we anticipate if we had rail between Atlanta and Chattanooga that that could increase flats out of Chattanooga?

It could because for this reason it would not if you've ever ridden the subway in New York, you have your express train and then you have your local train.

And as this thing, again, it's not gonna be built out in a day, but as this thing gets built out, you'll most likely have stops in places like Dalton, like Calhoun, like Murfreesboro, like Mont Eagle, right?

And so those folks are gonna be able to price compare and say, okay, do I want to shuttle into Chattanooga?

Do I want to shuttle, you know, where do I want to go?

And they'll have a little bit more flexibility in terms of getting to our city for the airport or for anything, really.

They want to come to the Tivoli and catch a show or whatever they want to do.

Um and and we I put this slide in here because you know, part of this is you're we're gonna get to a point right now.

I think the current phase is $500,000.

The next phase probably $5 million with a 10% non-federal match, which we'll be working with the four cities and two states to get.

So that's if you do the math, that's another 500,000 we'll have to raise.

So again, not a lot of money comparatively.

Um, but we will start to look to the states of Georgia and Tennessee for more and more involvement.

And we think it makes a lot of sense uh given the state's focus on large on small communities, on rural communities, um, and connectivity uh and transparency.

So this is this is this is a way if you think about a lot of these small towns that you've been through on your travels, they were probably put there by the railroad in the first place back in the day.

And when the railroad pulled out, probably didn't help things.

In fact, a lot of times you still see the little rail station in the middle of town overgrown with weeds and kudzu and English ivy invasive species, right?

Um and so this would be a shot in the arm for a lot of those communities, bringing that bringing people back, um and and enabling people to not just come and not just go from there but also come to there.

Ellis, quick question who will own the rail line?

Like will if we're in a an agreement with other cities, will Chattanooga have some ownership in in this compact agreement?

We do not seek that.

It will most we will most likely be a user.

So let me back up and tell me if this answers your question.

Uh the then to the act that created Amtrak, um, the the Tier One railroads, which is CSX, BNSF, Norfolk Southern, etc.

Canadian CN are required to allow passenger trains to come through at a reasonable cost and without impediment.

Um so they we would be essentially not not we, but this organization we would create really would probably be in latter stages led by the states.

Like a transit, we will be creating a transit authority more or less for this project as we get into later stages.

Yeah.

I got you.

And and then they would be in essence customers as mandated by federal law of of CSX.

And by right now, what you run into is they say, well, sure, you can put a passenger train on there, but I'm not making any guarantees that it's gonna get anywhere.

CSX.

And they all, yeah, they all say we're full, basically.

And so the feds created this program in essence to allow the capital investment needed to basically remove that impediment to create passenger on their tracks.

Correct.

Gotcha.

Thank you.

And that's why the this is large that's why it's mostly funded by the feds.

These are capital improvements that will take place on the tier one railroads, you know, land.

Gotcha.

Um, but will uh will allow us then going forward to to do um passenger rail.

So again, step step one, we're on schedule here, we're coming out of step one, entering step two.

Um in step two, we'll really be taking everything that we've collected and we'll then be taking that to the railroads and we'll be saying, Hey, how does this match up with your network?

What bottlenecks do you anticipate as a result of this?

And they'll start to point to places on a map where they think, okay, well, if you we've got all these other trains coming in here, and so we're gonna need to widen this portion.

We'll then in uh design engineering will start to break off those individual bottlenecks and do engineering and then finally construction to eliminate those bottlenecks.

And that's that's the program.

Um so again, as I mentioned, uh we recently met in Nashville.

Um Mayor Kelly kindly uh agreed to serve as the chair of the organization for for now, GDOT's part of it, and T dot, and we're still working on getting some bylaws and nonprofit uh you know uh documents sign, you know, is it better to be a C3 or a C4?

We're going through a little of that, but uh but in essence we've got the the band together on this, and and we're heading into step two.

Um and so with that, uh I can answer more questions, or if we've exhausted the questions, I can lead you into the.

So Ellis, thank you for this.

Of course, I appreciate all your hard work.

We're gonna be doing this for quite some time.

Um so is Amtrak not the goal?

Like ultimately, like will Amtrak not put their trains on the on these rails.

I think Amtrak would be would make a lot of sense.

There's um Amtrak was actually part of our original submission.

They've studied this line, as a matter of fact, and have uh and and and gave us those materials that we could submit those to the FRA uh basically as a stamp of approval saying, hey, if this works, we'll run trains on it.

There is, however, another uh outfit called Bright Line as well, which runs um, I think they run in Florida and they run out west a little bit as well.

Um that's a that's a private uh entity, and I don't think we'd want to at this point close the door on anybody.

You know, we don't know what the landscape is gonna look like in a couple of years from now when when we're having those discussions more in depth.

But Amtrak makes a lot of sense.

We uh we talk to Amtrak every month at least and and work with them on this, and they're they're a natural partner.

I think we just we don't want to close ourselves off from whatever future opportunities could emerge.

Okay, well, thank you again.

I'm serious.

This is great.

I'm looking forward to how this unfolds, especially as we're talking about expanding the airport of district six.

How the rail you're five, yeah.

Respectfully and how this could be a conduit of more interstate traffic, you know, transport.

So what is the timeline on?

That's the only thing I didn't see in this, like you said we're going, we're leaving step one into two.

Yeah, we it starts to get at a certain point it becomes funding dependent as you go again.

As I mentioned, and I say small amount of money, I mean small amount of money in regards to building stuff with railroad massive two state capital intensive projects.

When we're talking about five million dollars, that's a drop in the bucket.

Um, you're probably getting to something that's gonna be several hundred million dollars at a certain point, which is gonna be beyond the scope of uh city like Chattanooga or any city really to do.

So that's where it gets into uh needing to have more state input into the process and state control of the process, which is another great which will attract more state funding as well.

Correct people would be on the if you had all the money today, you could probably get this done in five to seven years.

We don't have all the money today, and and and we don't know who the next president is gonna be or who the next governor is gonna be.

So there's there's a lot of there's a lot of unknowns as you as you go through the process.

So but I I think if you had all the money right now, you could get it.

So but right now there's not a timeline because we don't have all the money.

We have we do not.

Yeah, we're we're heading into step two.

We think that one's gonna be fairly simple.

Again, that's a 10% match from five million is is five hundred thousand dollars.

So we think municipality that's a part of 500 total, 500,000 total between four municipalities and two states.

So six five hundred thousand dollars six ways.

So that should be a fairly light lift.

We'll we'll obviously come to you guys if we when we figure out the exact number and and ask uh for for our portion of that.

I think the other thing to be thinking about again.

This is not a near-term worry, but at some point uh we're gonna have to think about a train station and where it's gonna go.

And so that that's obviously gonna be more than 500,000.

But how that gets funded and and where that goes, and you know, that it thing about train stations is they need to be near the the rail that you're actually using, and so it could be over by the airport to your point.

There's a lot of things.

Or in district five where I already have sea rail, you know, the street.

Just across the street.

Lane trains, another one.

I got it all.

So right across from where they're building a new garage is where that is one potential location.

Uh you've also got just um down toward your district, uh past the stadium, as that's all CSX, the trans float facility down there, and then they have a yard on the west side uh of town, so anywhere along that line, south broad, and then up Amnicola Highway, right?

So there's no projection as far as like when we go into step two, like is step two like a two-year process or like is there a guess to mention around two years.

Okay, gotcha.

So we just so we would know what to expect as far as I mean in our discussion with the federal.

We'll be in re-elections in three, four years.

And with a new mayor, so and our discussions with the federal government, it's around two years for step two.

Now that can be that's probably on the long side.

Again, having if we're able to kind of do our jobs well, hit our marks and execute well, probably more like a year, year and a half.

But but we're trying to allow for the unknown.

Yeah, people get sick and retire, and who knows, right?

So um, so we're trying to leave a little wiggle room there.

Uh, but each step we try to look at it as building the foundation for the next step.

So in step one, we didn't have to, but we put together an economic proposal on that to show the ROI for doing this, because now in step two, we have to be able to go to people and say, hey, you need a little a little amount of money, 500,000, and and there's actually an ROI with that, whether it's jobs or tourism or uh or some combination of those things.

So we're trying to think as we're in step two, we will be thinking about how to leverage that to get through step three.

Councilman Rachel, yeah.

All four.

You know, skip councilman.

I'm just I prefer my brother.

I'm so sorry.

The Bible says prefer your brother.

I'm a brother.

Councilman Harvey.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Uh I have several questions, as you know, El uh Ellis.

I am fascinated with this and would love to see this happen again in uh the home of the Choo Shoe.

Um so the uh the question I get when I talk to people about this is the the first question I get is will this affect negatively affect the airport?

No.

Okay, we we we talked to again, I think one of the locations would be right across the street from the airport.

I think the airport would like nothing more than to have a bunch of potential customers getting disgorged absolute right across the street from them.

Um anytime you're again, I think Chattanooga has a lot of visitors, right?

And our net inflows are greater than our outflows here in Chattanooga.

And so when you add conduits to Chattanooga and from Chattanooga, more people are gonna find it easier to come here all up and down the eastern seaboard.

I think the tourism company is very excited about this, thinking about these are all new markets now.

Because we look at we're normally a you know, historically, we're a day drive destination, right?

Right, but now we're you're you're when you're a day rail destination, that suddenly opens up a lot new of new interesting possibilities.

And so all these people, you know, some a lot of people will will fly in and then drive out, or or or or they'll take the train as kind of a novelty to to see the countryside and then fly out.

Uh but I don't think there's any concern on the airports.

So that brings up another question is how how long would a trip do you think would be like from here to Atlanta?

Uh two hours.

The the answer you dread is it depends.

Uh it depends on how many stops.

How many stops?

That was my next question.

So if you stop in Calhoun, Dalton, Marietta, et cetera, it could it could take longer.

However, pasture trains are very light.

And so I'm again in my done a few fact-finding trips uh to to kind of get a sense for it.

And I don't I don't think um, you know, it would probably be I would assume it's 20%, 30% longer than if you just took a car and hit no traffic.

Right.

Because you're not, I don't know how fast you drive, but you're probably not gonna be going much faster than 60 or 70.

Right.

And people tend to drive 75, you know, 85 on the road.

Till they get to Marietta and start to slow down.

Yeah, and then you're stuck.

But that's where the train really becomes a superior instrument.

Absolutely.

Not having to make um you know, get into that stop and go traffic.

So I think it'll be it'll be longer in some cases, it'll be shorter in others, depending on traffic.

Um I I uh we also envision as I as I've referenced uh probably an express route, a direct route, and then a local, most likely.

I don't know how we'd roll that out in terms of order of operations.

My guess is initially it would be a local that would stop in more places, and then once you really got the ridership up, the demand would grow for an express route direct to you know the Atlanta station direct to Nashville.

Um just a couple more questions.

What would an anticipated fare cost a passenger?

I don't know.

Okay.

Um I can get that for you.

Yeah, I think that'd be interesting to know.

Um so so with a longer trip, um do you think the uh trains would offer overnight accommodations if you're driving if you're going to Florida or you know, whatever?

Okay.

Yeah, this would our our anticipation is that the Amtrak, and there's another, I'm not sure if it was in there, but there's a long uh it's not in here, but Amtrak has sort of a uh it's a study, maybe it just came out recently, but long range routes, and they would love to come down.

You'll see that green line that I didn't mention that goes Atlanta, Chattanooga, then it kind of goes to the northeast um right up to to Roanoke, um that's through Knoxville, through Bristol, um, and then Washington, DC.

So you I think you would see Amtrak add some routes there.

Okay.

Um that would be our anticipation again.

They're very excited about this.

This makes their network make a lot more sense than having Tennessee be kind of bifurcated the way it is currently.

It's just weird that you can't go across the state of Tennessee by rail currently.

Right, exactly.

Um two more questions.

Um is it feasible to do uh a train terminal, say at the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum or the the Choo Choo?

It is feasible.

Those are those are feasible locations.

We've talked again, I've spoken to Tim Andrews about a number of locations.

I think one of the one of the considerations again is speed.

And so you don't want to put it, you won't want to nestle it so far back.

Think about coming up from Atlanta and then having to go north east a long distance in order to then turn around and go west again.

Right.

So I think there's some consideration, and that's that's first consideration.

And part of why that's a consideration is we have a lot in Chattanooga, a lot of what are called at grade crossings, which means that the rail and the road are slapped down right on top of one another.

Probably drove across some to get here today.

And you have to go pretty slow over those in a train because you don't want you don't want to hit anybody.

Yeah, that's it's it costs them a lot uh in insurance and payouts, and obviously the loss of life and and uh and property associated with that.

So um one of the things that you do is you separate those grades as you go through this process.

Um and that those that could be part of the quarter ID process.

There are other FRA programs that we would use to do grade separations.

So we would look at the number of at grade crossings, which again remember they're ringing the bell, they're honking the horn uh as they go through there to see what is fee.

Um to see what is fee that that plays into the speed piece is if we have to do, let's say, and I'm just making this up, but if you wanted to go to the Tennessee Valley Railroad and there are nine at grade crossings, and so you're doing five miles an hour for X number of minutes, whereas another location maybe it's just two, and now I'm thinking, okay, two.

Well, I can do that for 50 million bucks, right?

And and have that done.

And and so that I think that would be part of the discussion is what's the cost of those grade separations, how many are needed.

Well, obviously, the the nostalgia factor to have it back at the 2G would be super cool.

I agree.

Um I think that isn't it's not my district, but uh I think that you could really help the Choo Choo and bring it back to life and what it used to be.

But practically you'd want it somewhere close to the airport though, wouldn't you?

I think it would be nice to have all the transportation clustered together.

I think you know, we've talked to Charles Frazier about what a multimodal sort of hub would look like that would include not just rail, but also bus that would include bike that would include other things.

We do have some challenges with Lee Highway, of course, uh an airport road getting to that location.

So we probably have to do a little bit of engineering and widening on airport road and and that intersection and everything just to make sure that um you know we're not putting something like that somewhere, then it's not as accessible as we strike for it to be.

Lastly, no hush.

What can we do to help?

Um I think right now where we're at, just your encouragement, your questions, these are great questions.

Any issues that you foresee, uh, and feel free to call me anytime.

And and obviously again, as I mentioned, it as this goes along, the states are gonna need to take a bigger and bigger share of this.

And Tennessee is well poised to do that.

They have Dan Palmay, who's a great guy, uh, who runs their um their rail division, and that's just gonna need more and more investment from the state of Tennessee as they as they go along, and they've got more rails to manage.

And so I think that I think just as we uh as we speak with our um you know state reps about things that that we think are important, just keeping that it doesn't have to be top of mind, doesn't have to be the front burner, but just making sure that they're they're conscious of that need, and that need is probably gonna grow.

Okay.

Mr.

Smith, your time has expired.

Yeah, we need to take a break before we go to our 330 meeting.

Uh council, don't forget these book uh range mark programs are up here.

And I will need a short attorney client session with you of the day just a little bit.

Okay.

Now no, never after that.

When we when we uh recess.

All right, we'll adjourn our strategic planning meeting, and we'll see you back at 3 30.

Very good.