Current market conditions and provide sufficient funding for financial commercial projects and further support to North Greenwood CRA goals.

Staff recommends approval of these updates, and I'm happy to answer any questions at this time.

Any questions from the trustees?

Is there anyone here today from the public that desire to speak to agenda item 4.5?

Hearing saying the honors their motion.

Motion to approve agenda item 4.5.

Second.

All those in favor?

Right.

Proposed, unanimous.

And if I can just say one thing, I'd say the best for last.

If you want to apply for any of these grants, go to my Clearwater CR.com slash grants.

Okay, thank you, Debbie.

Appreciate it.

Move to agenda item 5.1.

Director's report for December 2025.

Good afternoon.

Hey, Susanito, CR executive director for the record.

Today I'll be presenting the director's report for the December 2025 month.

Walk you through some of the updates in the downtown CRA, the North Greenwood CRA, and our property disposition strategy.

There we go.

Thank you, Ed.

Don't see it up on the screen.

It's just a bit.

Thank you.

So the agenda overview today, you know, first we'll go again over this downtown CRA updates, second, North Freedom Wood CRA updates, and then the property disposition update.

So this one is a very fun slide.

You know, we do community of police and innovations in the CRA.

That's one of the items we're allowed to spend some of the increment funds.

So we have partnered up with the police department on multiple occasions, but this last one was nice.

But the CRA does sponsor the purchase of e-bikes for the downtown.

So far, they've been very successful to the PD offices.

On the agenda, and that is to adjourn the community redevelopment agency meeting of January 12, 2026.

And we'll move to item 2.1 on the agenda.

Then to public information coordinator, a title she holds today.

In addition to supporting her department's programs, Christy manages the city's Facebook and Instagram feeds, and she serves as editor of connection, the newsletter for city employees and retirees.

She's a highly skilled builder of content for the city's website.

She's built complex web pages such as landing pages for the marina construction, new city hall, launch pad photo galleries, and many more.

Christy is always happy to jump in and help her teammates whenever needed.

She's a leader among public information team and is a strong mentor for our new employees and interns.

She often will step in and land a hand and do whatever it takes to get the job done.

In her spare time, Christy and her family can usually be found somewhere at Disney where they visit many times a year.

She's a great mom and aunt, volunteering time for her sons and nephews after school activities.

Through her work, Christy constantly advances the city's strategic priorities of building a high performing government and developing delivering superior public service.

She ensures information is accurate, timely, and accessible, helping residents and employees better understand city services, projects, and initiatives.

Christie's collaborative approach, attention to detail, and commitment to excellence excellence strengthen internal operations and enhance public trust, directly supporting the City's strategic plan.

Our team would not be what it is without Christy.

Her bubbly personality, kindness, and positive attitude make every day better in public communications department.

Thank you, Christy.

Thank you.

Thank you, Christy.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Congratulations, Christian.

20 years with City of Clearwater, and thank you for your dedication to our city and citizens.

Next, I'd like to call up for the 25-year employee award.

Heather Parsons from Public Communications, I guess it's Public Communications Award Day.

And asked the city manager to read the recognition.

A lot of years of service in public communications.

Heather began her career with the City of Clearwater in January of 2001 as a staff assistant in the Clearwater Fire and Rescue Department.

In March of 2003, she was promoted to senior staff assistant in the public communications department.

During her time, a senior staff assistant, she attended USF and earned her bachelor's degree in English.

In 2007, Heather was promoted to public information specialist, a title she held until October of 2014 when she was promoted to public information coordinator.

Heather was promoted again in 2019 to senior public information coordinator and has been responsible for highly visible communication pieces such as the Utility Bill Stuffer, My Clearwater magazine, and now electronic My Clearwater E newsletter, which is distributed weekly.

In 2025, Heather was promoted to public information manager, a title she still holds today.

And she oversees the city's four public information coordinators and major communications projects.

There's rarely a printed piece that goes out of out to the public where Heather hasn't fixed poor grammar, spelling, writing, and comma splices.

If you have a grammar question, she is your go-to staff member.

Outside of work, Heather has reached the highest level possible in the Toastmasters group and is accredited public relations.

She is a busy mom of two girls who does a great job of handling all the home duties when her boat captain husband is gone for months at a time.

In her leadership role, Heather has an Heather plays an integral role in advancing the city's strategic plan by supporting a high-performing government and promoting superior public service.

She provides thoughtful oversight of citywide communications, ensuring messaging is clear, accurate, and timely for both residents and employees.

Heather's strong editorial skills, collaborative leadership style, and high standards elevate internal processes and reinforce public confidence in city communications.

Her dedication and professionalism continue to strengthen the public communications department and the city.

Congratulations to Heather on reaching this 25-year career milestone.

Thank you.

Thank you, Heather.

Heather's done a lot of things, and Heather is a fellow grammar corrector.

That's a role that's not always appreciated.

So I uh thank you for all you do for our setting.

Next, we'd like to call up uh Kelsey Johnson, parts of recreation for the November 2025 Employee of the Month Award.

This fall, Kelsey managed an extraordinary volume of work with exceptional skill and dedication.

Her efforts save the day, save the city tens of thousands of dollars while simultaneously providing residents meaningful opportunities to serve and grow and their commitment to the community.

As the administrator of the city's volunteer program, Kelsey is deeply passionate about transforming volunteer opportunities into a sustainable culture of service that mutually benefits both residents and the city.

Throughout the year, Kelsey actively engages individuals, businesses, and visitors to expand and strengthen the volunteer program.

Under her leadership, the city's adopt a blank program have grown each year she's been with the organization.

This fall and winter, in just a matter of weeks, Kelsey served as a lead for the city's big cleanup event, coordinated several hundred volunteers for the Achieva Clearwater Turkey Trot, and placed volunteers at each of the city's rec center events.

The sheer volume of work she manages is impressive, but her attitude and approach to service are even more so.

Kelsey is creative, solutions-oriented, and consistently finds way to say yes.

She is a true builder, bringing others into work in ways that support their personal growth and development while advancing the city's goals.

Cities, both larger and smaller across the country invest multiple employees in significant resources into volunteerism programs that do not operate as efficiently as Clearwater's, which Kelsey leads as the sole paid employee in this area.

Through her daily efforts, Kelsey exemplifies superior public service and demonstrates what a high performing government looks like in action.

She helps make the city brighter and more beautiful every day, and her consistent dedication and impact make her highly deserving of this recognition.

Thank you so much.

Congratulations, Council.

Congratulations.

Congratulations, Kelsey.

Good afternoon, happy new year.

Good to see you.

So let's start with a video.

We enjoyed that report, but we were hoping we were gonna see it twice.

So that's good.

Pretty great, huh?

It's uh year two there of the sound is a lot to celebrate.

And um, I think y'all are in a copies of this already.

You guys all give your copies?

I have them.

I have them.

You know, we're we're really ecstatic about your two.

Uh a lot to celebrate.

Uh we did 59 events this year, up from 24, and we celebrate our hundredth show in September.

And um, we broke our attendance record not once but twice with old dominion and then T-Pain.

And um, as well as setting the highest grossing revenue event as well with uh with old Dominion.

In addition, we created our ninth configuration for seating slash standing, which again, anytime you have that variety available to an artist based on what their needs could be, that enables us to bring in artists of all different genres based on what their expectation is for seating the populace and coming over to the sound.

So we had eight and we have nine now all approved by the city, approved by fire and police for safety and aesthetics as well.

So fully reserved, fully GA and everything in between.

So again, making strides to secure artists in every possible way.

And our average attendance per show increased by close to 400 patrons across the board.

So anytime that incline begins in year two, it starts the starts to trend upwards with more knowledge, more awareness, community support, and the fever that is about the sound.

So we are ecstatic to see those trends moving in that direction, as I'm sure you are.

In addition to our existing partnerships with our colleagues at AEG and Live Nation and other promoters, we uh worked with two additional promoters this year, 98 Rock, and Outback Concerts.

So we now have five or six partners that are out there helping us secure the greatest in live entertainment on a daily basis.

And uh the word through those partners are the artists love it.

Obviously, they see the fans having a great time.

Management agents have been out visiting on a daily basis of shows, and um they have nothing but phenomenal things to say, and even some is uh declaring that it's you know could be the nicest venue of its size and in the country.

So those are what we want to hear.

That's why we keep investing back in.

Um in addition to the the normal you know, pop rock country type categories.

We expanded this year into comedy with Nikki Glazer, classical with Houser, uh Latin with a strapal, hip hop T-Pain, and your favorite Krungbin with a category all of their own.

So we hit we uh of the 43 shows that were sort of national hard ticket concerts.

33 of the artists this year were new to us compared to when we opened in 2023.

Again, a great trend in format and in artists, and uh as well as we love having the repeats that come back as perennials uh for our traditions.

So all in all, we're just uh um continuing to invest you know, upward millions of dollars in sound lighting, video, iMag, barricades, uh, artist amenities to enhance not only the patron experience but also the artist experience, and um uh in addition, we um as you alluded to earlier, Mirror Rector, about all of Clearwater being supported, but especially the downtown.

We had a great meeting in December that some of you were at with the merchants, and um it was great to have this sort of um open house type thing.

We did it at the Capitol, where we got to hear their feelings about shows and nights of the week shows occur on, and when there's a show at the Capitol and the Sound, and how to better handle uh the traffic in the sense of uh patron traffic and times, and it was really uh an eye-opener, and um we think it's really broke some uh great ground with our neighbors that are in Cleveland Street to hear what they have to say instead of letting it go by months and months that we're we'll hopefully meet on a regular basis and have our staff visit with them on a regular basis to hear to keep them better informed on show editions so that they're not just maybe utilizing the guides that are out that quickly get outdated, much like this one's already dated because we already confirmed four more sound shows that you'll be hearing about so that they are better to uh prepare to staff and be ready for the traffic that could come their way, or if a show cancels or postpones that that there's nothing happening on that night at the Capitol or the Sound, or if a date moves, or if we add a second show with an artist, so all that um communication on expected attendance, whether it be the capital or uh if we know trends in walk-up that we can help them with that we could walk up a thousand people like we did on certain nights at the Baycare Sound this year that can be ready for that.

Um, and said was basing it on what might be a typical reserve seat attendance where you might not walk up as many.

Um so that was really valuable, and um, and uh we wanted to share that with you as well.

That uh we're hoping that that uh together we uh we're better to celebrate these shows and be better prepared uh from both ends on that for this coming year ahead.

So that being said, um we're so we're really uh looking forward to 2026.

We have a lot on the books, we have a lot held in all categories, and um and uh we're gonna kick it off next month, and we're already a thousand over sold on sticks where we were a year ago.

So these are all just wonderful um wonderful little tidbits of of uh of information we have that hope leads to a great year ahead.

So thank you.

Any questions for Mr.

Rossi?

Vice Mayor Start with you first.

Yes.

Uh one of the comments that you made actually um resonated with me, and that is the flexibility of your seating.

I saw firsthand how useful and helpful that is.

Uh, for example, when when we watched Hauser, he was so interactive with with the audience.

It was it was great that we could you know um adapt our seating to that, or the regular seating of Nikki Glazer, and then the huge mosh pit with um the EDM groups.

So that was one thing that um I didn't realize the value of it until I've seen the bright right.

Um and then I want to close with this.

As one of the many people who um were early believers, we never questioned whether it was going to be special as we fought along the many years that we did.

And we always knew it was gonna be special.

But if someone told me two years ago, or you know, hey, um, the sound after two years, two calendar years, or operating years rather, is gonna rank third in the world for Polestar.

I I would never have believed it.

So I I I need to give you credit for that.

This is an incredible accomplishment that this city has done, and it needs to be recognized for it.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Appreciate it.

It's uh thank thank all of you.

I mean, you know, we we speak often, and you look uh when we're in the the throes of a of a hugely successful show, and you look out at the crowd from the view and you see this is why we do it.

You know, I mean, from all my years at Ruth Eckard, the hard part is getting it, and then for that two hours when the artist takes the mic, it's in their hands, right?

And then you see the the reaction to the two thousands of fans who this is their special night.

This may be the only show they come to all year.

This is what they're saving their money for.

This is what they have, you know, got the babysitter, they went to dinner, they've been putting on their calendar marking the days till they till they get to see that artist, and to observe that from you know the bird's eye view looking down of the collaborative effort of all of us and and the staff back at the hall to put it together in this community is uh is just magical, you know.

And I like watching your guys' expressions too, because you'll hit me and go, I never heard of this act, but my goodness, you know, we're learning together, and that's why when we mentioned the new genres that we hit with those successful shows, um it just you know you know it's all baptism by fire.

We're trying, we're throwing, we're throwing it in the ring.

And um, thanks for believing.

You know, 10 years ago, we wouldn't have believed it either.

We knew it could happen, and we knew that sweet spot of the 3,000 to 4,000 was our number.

Um, and and we're seeing we're seeing that on a regular basis, and and then more, you know.

So um it means a lot, and there's so many to thank, and our work's not done.

Like I said, we just keep investing back in in manpower and in money, and um, and uh trying to procure every last artist that we we have to get.

And it was the same way at the hall of those years.

People said, When could you ever get this artist or that artist or that artist?

We say be patient because eventually you know something's happening and and you you do get you know the Ed Sheerans and Jimmy Buffett's and at the time to come and play and Billy Joel's.

It just might be a different situation, but you know, you gotta believe that's our our industry's all about that, you know.

So thank you.

Yeah, you know, um during this whole process of figuring out that we really wanted to have some kind of a uh music venue bigger than what we had before, which was really a band shell.

Um I knew that it was gonna be successful, but I had no I had no idea we would be where we are today, just like Councilman Tosheda said uh, you know, I remember talking about with the uh one of the people that came in and said, you know, you should make it like 2500.

That should be the tops.

And I'm like, I don't think so.

I you know, because I was thinking that I was thinking of Ruth Eckert all along that you guys would probably be managing it, and you've already got that.

I mean, you've got the cap, you got Ruth Eckert Hall.

And uh from what I found from calling around at different venues in Florida, it seemed like that was the size we needed to have.

And I'm so glad we went with that, and thank you so much for it's so much more than we even ever thought it would be.

So very happy with it.

And um, and the types of of uh artists that you're bringing in now are great.

So thank you for that as well.

Thank you too.

And you're a believer from the beginning, and and uh you're relentless on your support, and we appreciate that.

And we're just getting going every day, you know.

So it's uh it's a lot of fun, and when it stays fun and inspiring when you get out of bed every day, it's uh we hit the ground running, and we're just trying to try to make the unthinkable happen down here in a good way, and that's what gonna drive drive folks to our beautiful city.

That's my run.

Thank you, Bobby.

I appreciate it.

Thank you for the update in the report.

Um, I will say the tangibles that you focus in on and putting the shoes on the patron and trying to make it the experience and understanding what they're going through, and you know that they've saved their money and that this might be the one show of the year they get to go to and trying to make it memorable.

I I think that just goes to show the um conviction that that you all have to make it that wonderful experience, and with conviction, you know, the sky's the limit with that that belief and an opportunity.

So I I too am taken back three in the world, that's fantastic news, fantastic numbers, and the shows that you already have on hold, the ones that are already locked in, um, the future's bright, and I look forward to it.

So thank you very much for what you're doing, and uh, I know that the region is thankful for it as well.

So thank you.

Thank you so much.

That's Mr.

Menino.

Uh, thank you, Mayor.

Thank you for being here.

Nice to see you.

Um those are those are accolades worth celebrating.

You know, number three in the world and number three in our country, and this fast is uh is awesome, and you and your team um should be applauded for it.

It's a lot of work.

Um, and the city of Clearwater should be, and we are uh thankful for what the team has done.

Um I love seeing the numbers and and the growth in here about trends.

I know the dais does as well, but I've said before what goes on behind the scenes and your team's commitment and philanthropic giving to our nonprofits in our community, that means more to me.

Uh, and I appreciate that.

I I took your group up on an offer for uh a tour with a handful of other leaders in the community.

Uh, and that's the story that was being told in there, not just these accolades of how amazing the shows and the growth, um, but the outreach.

Uh, and we don't discuss that enough, I think.

And five, six, seven of our nonprofits that mean so much to our community.

Uh, you your team is hands-on, boots on the ground, assisting them on a daily basis in so many different ways, and from kids uh all the way to elders.

Um, and you should be thanked for that, not just the numbers.

So, thank you and your team for that.

Please pass that message on.

Um, your investments and like you said, I think uh patron and odd uh and artist experience, it's noticeable.

Every time we go to a show, we we can feel it, you feel a difference, you see a difference, you you can touch a difference.

It it's been a lot of fun to see the business morph and grow.

Uh, and congratulations for that.

Uh it's been uh it's been an awesome ride.

So I just again thank you and the team.

Uh, and my I my message is continue to share what you're doing outside in the community philanthropic.

I know we've asked and beat you up over the the last two years for numbers and metrics and data, uh, but the other side, the heart filled side, is important as well.

And I know our nonprofits appreciate it too, so thank you.

Thank you so much.

Uh one of the uh one of the things we hear a lot from the board and our community members is is to not telling our story as best we should.

So uh you're alluding to that uh hopefully inspires others to spread the word uh because it is a good story, and it's in a it's a story that's unique in its own, especially in our business.

Um you know, we we do shows to make five cents if it's the right show to do, you know, and that's always been our theory and our motto.

Let's get the let's get let's get this artist or this event here so that people from the community at uh at whatever price point we can get them to see it.

That's what our role is to be different from commercial entities, and um hopefully that comes out of the pores a little better uh as we move ahead.

But thank you for that.

It means a lot.

It's the other side that uh isn't on the posters, it isn't on the marquee, it isn't there.

But those once folks find out, hopefully they they understand our our mission alongside all the excitement, like you said.

But uh it's very it's appreciated.

Thank you for bringing it up.

Um thank you, Bobin, uh, for great report and all the work you do.

I do have one question though.

Yes, um, for somebody who's not in the industry, and I don't understand completely how do these holds work, these offers.

I mean, is it like sixty days, or they have a chance to get out, and then because there's 60 of them on here, and what's what's on average historically the percentage of those that have result in a contract ratio?

It's really kind of um it would be it would be hard to pinpoint exactly uh uh a percentage of those that will occur or won't.

Because quite honestly, the two shows I confirmed since we did this two weeks ago were not even on there.

So sometimes they just come out of, especially after a holiday, they'll come out of left field.

Artists will get through the holidays, they realize here's a new year, we better get to work.

We're freezing, let's go to Florida.

You know, so that's it happens like that sometimes.

Other times we could be holding an artist for months, and everything could be in place, and they'll get a really really big offer to go do something in another part of the country, like a big festival or a television event or something, in which case all the available shift to the different to the west coast or to the northeast, and then they kind of keep ours to okay.

We know you guys are all interested, we'll get back to you with new dates.

So that's it's always kind of evolving, it's breathing, it's a living all the time.

So our staff is phenomenal about um really being resilient on holds and uh updating and shifting.

Um, and then we just really are super uh aggressive on communicating with our agents and managers to even asking like really do can they can they come back and get that on the end of the tour?

Can't we start the beginning of the tour like you did with Google Dolls a couple years ago?

Add us on to that part.

You gotta play this place, you know.

Um we still uh one of our you know uh still our biggest hurdles is is the reckon recognizing why we should play Clearwater, and the fact that a lot of our industry doesn't know we're here and and our connection to Tampa Bay and what what region we're in still getting asked if Naples is a conflict three hours away.

So we're still educating.

Uh Megan Brennan's here, our VP of marketing and Sharon Reed Kane, our VP of education joined me today.

But we just did a video for a huge artist whose agent wasn't really like okay.

Well, playing I'm gonna play St.

Augustine in Miami.

Why should I, even though you're driving right past us.

So we put together a great like special video with a clientele that might be more suitable for that artist, as opposed to maybe the general admission, you know, barricade party people in the front that may be more of a reserved uh theater crowd, if you will, and combined with all the aesthetic beauty of the the drone shots, but we interspersed maybe some other artists in the video that were more core to that person's uh you know like you know, the their their other colleagues, if you will.

So it just it's just constantly changing and uh narrowing down.

Um there's one artist on there that confirmed this week for October that the avails were made October.

So literally it's the beginning of the tour and the end of the tour, but we have to hold them and and let them know.

And then if we get another artist that wants a date within that window, we let them know hey, we need July 15th back.

Okay, and we challenge it, and then they give us that date back, but keep holding all the other ones.

So they're working as hard as we are to get their artists booked.

Um we just you know are relentless on staying on top of it and and uh selling the selling the sound, you know, to to them all.

But that's kind of why that kind of goes in ebbs and flows a little bit there.

That's really was a snapshot on the data was due of what we had on hold.

Uh it'll look different today, similar but different, you know.

Yeah, so got it.

Good question, though.

Yeah, thank you.

Good question.

Okay, well, thank you, Bob.

Thank you so much.

Look forward to seeing you out there again.

Yeah, that we'll move to item 3.1 on the agenda.

Sunset the affordable housing advisory committee and adopt resolution 26-01.

Dylan Matt May you, I'm the housing manager.

On August 21st, 2025, the city council adopted resolution 25-11, which appointed the city's affordable housing advisory committee or the AHAC.

Uh, following their appointment, the AHAC conducted a review of the city's existing policies, procedures, and land development regulations related to housing.

Their role was advisory in nature with the objective of identifying specific actions and initiatives uh that could encourage or facilitate the development of affordable housing within the city.

The committee completed its review and provided recommendations to city staff in advance of the preparation of the local housing assistance plan.

These recommendations were formally presented to council on December 4th, 2025.

The AHAC has now completed its assigned work for fiscal year 25-26.

As a result, the committee's purpose for this cycle has been fulfilled, and the council may now sunset the committee.

Resolution 26-01 before you today formally acknowledges the completion of the AHAC's work for the fiscal year and terminates the current appointments.

That'd be happy to address any questions.

Any questions?

Thank you, Mayor.

I just wanted to thank you and the team.

Obviously.

But you and your group deserve uh kudos uh for the way you handled it and managed it.

And uh I think it's a great report for the city of Clearwater.

Thank you.

Anything else?

Okay.

Thank you.

Agenda item 3.2.

Declare a surplus certain rail property located at 700 706 North Missouri Avenue, Clearwater, Florida.

Good afternoon.

Hey Susanino, CR executive director.

This is a request to surplus the property, the Army property located on Missouri Avenue.

Pull up the address here I just had it and I lost it, so I apologize.

This property here is located at 706 North.

706 North Missouri Avenue.

This is the armory property that parks and recreations currently located in.

This property was uh basically deterred over by the state of Florida to the city of Clearwater.

City of Clearwater is basically surplusing the property over to the community redevelopment agency.

Staff is here for questions.

Okay, any questions?

Not okay.

Thank you very much.

Gen item 4.1.

Authorized purchase orders for the Florida Industrial Products of Tampa, Florida, Q Supply, H A J O C A Core of St.

Pete and Mill Supply Company for Supply of Galvanized Hill Pipe and Fittings.

Good afternoon, Mayor Council.

My name is Jim Prime, the operations division manager for CGS Energy, and we're requesting authorization to purchase galvanized steel pipe fittings and no, in the amount not to exceed 200,000.

We've received six bids with uh Q supply, amount of meal supply, techno gas, uh representing the three lowest most responsible bidders.

Uh the galvanized steel pop and fittings items in this contract is what we use to build the meter sands, everything we do uh for the above ground infrastructure projects.

Uh so I'm happy to take any questions if you have any sorry believe my voice.

Any questions on agenda item 4.1?

Can we have consent?

We have consent on 4.1.

Thank you.

Agenda item 4.2.

Authorized the purchase order AECOM Technical Services for Design Consulting Services.

Good afternoon, Council.

My name is Alex Leon.

I'm the assistant director for CDS Energy.

Uh this is looking for your authorization for a ACOM technical services.

This will be for the design engineering design services for two gas pipelines that will be crossing the intercoastal.

Uh this was done through an RFQ process.

Uh we received uh 10 uh bids or uh 10 uh responses of those tens.

We uh a solution committee narrowed down to five, and from those five uh ACOM was selected.

Then we engage them on uh the scope and uh pricing services, and we have uh uh decided and set on ACOM.

Uh this will be for the uh uh not to exceed total amount of 93400 934,000 dollars.

I'll take any questions.

Any questions on the gender item 4.2?

Councilmember Albrecht.

So we already have gas lines running just to the beach, right?

We have one that crosses the intercoastal.

Just one, yes.

Okay on the north side, yes.

All right, is this going that in the same location or south of the causeway?

So the current plan the it might change once design engages, however, the current plan would be to go slightly north of their where the existing line is today, and one on the south side, roughly around where the um uh uh where the hospital is.

I actually forget the name of the street right now, uh, approximately in that in that area.

Um that could change once design uh it's once we start in design and and field conditions may dictate the different locations.

At the moment, those are the current proposed locations.

Okay, thanks.

Any other questions?

Do we have consent?

Yes, we have consent on 4.2.

Thank you, sir.

Agenda item 4.3.

Ratify and confirm an increase to the purchase order with trillium transportation fuels.

Again, uh Alex Leon, um assistant director for uh CGS Energy.

This is uh looking for your uh um approval to ratify and confirm uh for chilling services uh for a total amount of uh 15,575 and 74 cents.

Um this is uh unfortunately due to the fact that we had unforeseen uh repairs uh that that were just not uh that it was impossible to predict last year when the uh original PO was uh was done.

Uh the main the the bulk of the uh of the repairs were due to a gas detector that uh we just unforeseen.

Um as a result, we are asking to ratify and confirm for these total amounts.

I'll take any questions.

Any questions on this agenda?

Do we have consent?

We have consent on 4.3.

Thank you, sir.

Item 5.1 approve a purchase order to base side dredging for inspection dredging services.

Good afternoon, honorable mayor, council members, and esteemed city city leadership.

I'm Ed Wilmers, the manager of Stormwater Division Public Works, and I'm presenting for review consideration and approval via consent, a request to enter into a pity piggyback agreement with Bayside Dredging, LLC of Clearwater, Florida utilizing contracts awarded by the city of Tampa and the City of Lighthouse Point, Florida for miscellaneous miscellaneous dredging services in an annual amount of $750,000.

The Stormwater Division of Public Works is continuing our efforts to build a strong strong team of skilled employees and service providers as we develop new and creative strategies to provide proactive stormwater maintenance services.

We continue to take a comprehensive look at our stormwater management system, which consists of public and private storm sewers, catch basins, inlets, creeks, lakes, and ponds.

While we have a significant number of water features within the city that have been constructed to assist with stormwater control, conveyance, storage, and management, like all aging systems, the stormwater management system has deteriorated over the years.

And as a result of this, the incidence of street ponding and neighborhood flooding has increased in recent years and was greatly exacerbated during 2024 as hurricanes, multiple hurricanes, each made landfall.

Excuse me.

As detailed in your council packets, staff is requesting and recommending that Bayside Dredging, Clearwater Based Company be awarded a piggyback contract to undertake and complete dredging of selected creeks and ponds.

Vegetation removal from various ponds, and that a purchase order in the amount of 750,000 dollars be issued to Baysite Dredging.

Utilizing their existing and competitively bid agreements with the city of Tampa and the City of Lighthouse Point.

I'll be happy to answer any questions.

Any questions?

Very much badly needed and so appreciate you uh leading this.

So I'm happy to do we have consent.

If I may, I'm happy to report that since we've started um outsourcing some of this work.

We've got approximately 300, not 300, 170 contracts and work orders in place for this type of thing.

So it's we're making great progress.

Thank you.

Yeah, we have consent on 5.1.

Agenda item 5.2.

Approve a roadway transfer agreement with town of Belair.

Council, I believe staff is considering uh continuing this item.

Yes, uh, cancel our city manager.

Um this particular item came to our attention this morning that we would benefit from doing uh a public ad uh associated with the property, so we're gonna proceed with that.

There is no issue with us uh postponing it to another meeting.

If you're willing to just continue it till the next meeting, we'll post the ad uh first thing this week and have it ready for review then.

I had some questions about it too, so um so uh consent uh to uh continue to continue it.

Yeah, very good.

Thank you.

Okay, uh move to agenda item five uh six point one.

Approve the annexation initial future land use map designation of residential medium and initial zoning atlas designation medium density residential for unaddressed South property at South Vick Mull and Booth Road.

My name is Adrian Young with Plan and Development.

This annexation requested for a voluntary annexation petition of 0.65 acres located east of south side of North More and Booth, south of South McMorland Booth Boulevard, excuse me, approximately 326 feet east.

I'm sorry, 326 feet north of Goldway Boulevard.

The parts is currently vacant.

The applicants request annexation for the city to receive San Free Sewer, solid waste and water from the city.

Plan development staff analysis concludes that annexation petition is consistent with the compass of plan, the community development code as detailed in the memo and recommends approval.

I'm open for any questions.

Okay.

Thank you.

Uh gender item 6.2.

I prove the annexation issue.

Featured land use map designation residential suburban and initial zoning atlas designation flow density residential for 2265 North McMillan Booth Road.

Again, Adrian Young, Plan Development.

This annexation request is for a voluntary annexation petition for 1.07 acres located 550 feet acres west of North McMullen Booth Road, approximately 223 feet along Lauren Lane.

The parcel is currently occupied by detached dwelling.

The applicants request the annexation to the city to receive sanitary sewer in water from the city.

Plan development staff analysis concludes that annexation petition is consistent with the compass of plan and community development code as detailed in the memo and recommends approval.

Any questions on this agenda item?

Okay.

None, thank you.

Agenda item 6.3.

Update on North Ward elementary school roof repairs and disposition strategy.

Dream T.

I didn't send these at first thought about that.

What else?

Um good afternoon, Lauren Matske, planning and development, and I have assistant city manager Battle with me as well.

So we're back to provide some additional information following staff's um discussion about the North Board and School and Row Architects reports closing out 2025.

Um during that meeting, City Council asked some questions about the roof proposal, the two options that were made available.

So roof replacement for the three historic buildings, as you recall, would cost just about 280,000 based on the initial uh quote received from general services.

That would be for the asphalt shingles.

So there was another option that was provided that showed a less expensive um what we were calling a shrink wrap.

There's a few pictures that were provided within your packages.

Um the estimated cost to cover the three roofs, again, those are for those three buildings that are designated historic, would be approximately 83,000.

And then city council had asked how long would that last.

And the manufacturer warranty would be for about one year.

So that would be assuming Florida Sun and Elements.

So that would give it that protection over the year while we're seeking other um other uses for the building.

So would you like me to touch on any remarketing or you don't?

So that was all my part.

It'll end it off.

So they so they would guarantee it for a year, but it could last longer.

Yes, yes.

The the warranty and you know, hopefully all of our items outlast their warranties, but sometimes they don't.

So uh thank you, Lauren.

That was that was the really the meat of what you asked us to bring back to you as we move forward with marketing the property.

So we've started to do some preliminary and um work in preparing to actively market the property.

Wanted to get your feedback after today if you wanted us to pursue moving forward with the shrink wrap approach or the roof shingle approach or nothing, um, but that won't prohibit us from continuing to market the property.

We are starting to put content together in terms of a standalone web site uh on the city's website about the property, so it'll do a full you know overview of what the redevelopment opportunity looks like, um, what we're looking to get in terms of responses in terms of what the process, if you will, us doing a protracted approach and trying to market it, also introduce it to the development community.

We've also um started to uh put together some content with respect to having tours, so uh folks would contact our office contact economic development staff.

We have a point person who would organize their tours, the tours are only meant to last between about an hour and an hour and a half.

This isn't a proposal presentation opportunity.

It is a tour of the facility.

Here's the information about it.

When we're ready to accept um proposals, we'll we'll let them know when that time frame is.

But we want to make sure that everyone is treated the same fairly.

Uh they get an opportunity to walk through if they want to set up that type of time.

So we're starting to do some of those underpinnings of what the next steps would be.

But um, as we said, we'd come back with this information, uh, get from you what what the next steps you want us to pursue.

Um, but if that means nothing, then we'll continue to market it and let the elements hopefully not take as you say, as we reported as well.

There weren't any visual observations of any water damage.

So we can we feel good about either way being on a whole position and doing nothing or you know, doing something a little bit more to make sure that we're protecting the property, but we're ready to market it.

We just want to get your further endorsement of that next step.

Okay.

Yeah, thank you, uh Lauren and uh Al for that update.

Um I will propose shrink wrapping it.

I mean, even though there's no major signs of water damage now, we don't want to have a bad roof that potentially does open something up and then expose us to further damage down the road.

And then I'm also for uh preparing the property for developers and allowing those walkthroughs.

I think that that's a great idea, um, giving them that one hour, 45 minutes, whatever it is that you guys deem necessary to uh get those future RFPs and and see where we can't do with uh such a great piece of property that's just north of us here.

So thank you again for the report, and that's where I'm at.

So look forward to the discussion.

Um first the idea of shrink wrapping and is that the consensus.

I have a question regarding is white the only color?

Okay.

Do you have options here?

That should be my question.

It's the best for reflecting sun.

Yeah, it's also the best at showing dirt, so uh and mold and mildew or stuff.

I'm not sure.

I literally have all the seen and done in either white or blue.

Okay.

Right.

They the examples that we were provided were all white, so that's the ones that we we provided.

I would say white over blue, but yeah, yeah.

Blue tarps and ply store management.

So just asking for if it's there.

We can ask it in circle back offline.

We'll find out.

Yeah, no, I'm supporting it.

And the second thing was uh whether to allow folks to do tours and to self-market it and use consensus to do that too.

I think that's great to uh create interest in it before we put it out formally.

Absolutely.

Yep.

Okay.

So if you have folks, they come to you, they approach you, send them our way, and we'll we'll coordinate and take time and get that done.

That's great.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

A purpose services agreement with charter communications.

Mayor, council member, Dan Mayor, IT director.

Uh, this is for uh a renewal of a not to exceed number for spectrum services.

We still use them at several locations across the city and for cable services.

Um we expect the actual outlay to be much lower.

They are going to move to a streaming package which will consolidate all of our TV services at a greatly reduced cost.

Um, and uh I also have to mention there is an indemnification clause, and that was another reason we had to bring it to you for approval.

So I'll take any other questions.

Okay, any questions on this?

Councilmember Cotton.

Dan, how are you doing?

Good.

Thank you.

Um I think we all know where I might be going with this.

Is I see it's just spectrum.

Did we shop this out to see if there's better service through Verizon Frontier?

We do.

I mean, we do business with Lumen, Frontier, Crown Castle, and not for all the same services, but they all get business from us.

Okay.

Uh it's mostly ISP service moving forward.

Once they go to a streaming format, we'll just bring everything across streaming.

Perfect.

Thanks, sir.

Okay, do we have consent on this?

Yep.

That's we have consent on 7.1, 7.2.

Authorized an increase at the purchase order with a seller.

Mayor, council member, Dan Mayor.

Um one of our subcontractors, if you will, for uh software is e-permit hub.

It does the online plan review.

Uh they were purchased by a seller, so we're consolidating these two agreements, and we're gonna have them co-term in 2030.

Um, so this was uh a large number.

We had to modify the contract.

This includes all the maintenance we pay for a seller plus the uh the online portion.

Um, and that will include some AI functionality.

Hopefully, in the coming three months, they should be releasing their AI agent for plan review, and we will be testing that uh with planning and development and hope that that adds value to our customers.

Take any other questions.

Questions on this agenda.

Okay, not do we have consent?

Yep, we have consent on seven point two.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Agenda item 8.1.

Approve an agreement with Cayenta.

Good afternoon, Mr.

Mayor, City Council, and Nemanyu Kuzmanovich utility customer service.

Uh, this is a utility billing system uh that we have been using for 25 years, and we're seeing a seeking a five-year agreement extension.

They'll ensure continuation in service delivery.

And we're also looking to utilize professional services for integration with other city systems, and we're also planning to invest in Cayenta AI agent to support our call center.

And I'll be happy to answer any questions.

Any questions on this agenda item?

Councilmember Cotton.

I do have a few.

Um turn this back on.

I do have a few.

So in the integration, um, who is ultimately gonna be accountable should something fail or underperform, given that Harris builds integration, but the city manages uh the configuration through a third-party consultant.

So we use Harris to help build the integration.

I mean, ultimately, we're responsible for the integration.

Okay.

Um, they assist us when we do upgrades, so they're they're aware of the fact that we've done an integration and they will give us early early release so we can test in their environment.

Um, but it that's a shared responsibility when we do basically custom integrations.

We will be moving to a warehousing approach, which means we'll be pulling data from our production systems and putting them in a neutral site so other systems can grab that data without risk of integrations to a live production system.

It reduces our risk and it makes data much more available to users.

All right, cool.

I've got three more.

Um are there any business processes or data exchanges that the city expects that are not shown in appendix A where the workflows are, especially around inventory asset life cycle or reporting of such from that from the county of the system?

Um, I mean, we we we will be doing it, we'll be moving a lot of those things into Trimble Unity, which was CityWorks.

Um, but the there's always a data exchange on the meters, the meters need to be kept in their system for billing purposes.

Okay.

Um, but we're we're able to mine that data pretty risk-free, if you will.

All right, cool.

I think that actually does take care of my other questions.

So thank you guys.

I appreciate it.

Any other questions?

Do we have consent?

Yes, yep.

We have consent on 8.1.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you.

And item 9.1.

Except for our department of transportation grant agreement.

Uh good afternoon.

Mayor Council Mike McDonald, Marine and Aviation Director.

Uh, this amendment updates the scope and funding of the parking lot expansion and rehabilitation project at Clearwater Executive Airport to include the provisions of a temporary modular office facility required to maintain fixed base operator operations during construction.

Demolition of the existing terminal building will displace required operational space and the temporary facility as necessary to ensure continuous and compliant airport operations for the duration of construction.

The amendment increases the the total project cost of 1.9 million with F dot participation capped at 80% of eligible cost and formally incorporates the module building into exhibit A as an allowable project expense and fly USA will reimburse the local match.

I'll be happy to answer any questions.

Any questions on this agenda?

If none do we have consent?

We have consent on 9.1.

9.2.

Approval purchase order to and lease agreements with mobile module management corporation.

Uh Mike McDonald, Marine and Aviation Director again.

Uh this item approves the temporary modular building to maintain fixed base operator operations at Clearwater Executive Airport during construction of the new terminal.

Uh the existing terminal will be demolished uh through the grant that you uh just consented to reimburse the module uh trailer at 80 percent, and the remaining 20 percent uh will be local match will be reimbursed by fly USA.

I'll be happy to answer any questions.

Questions on this agenda.

Do we have consent?

Yes, we have consent on 9.2.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Agenda item 10.1.

Authorized purchase orders of core and main LP and Pasco Pipe Supply for ductile iron pipe fittings.

Afternoon, excuse me, afternoon, mayor, council.

My name is Michael Vaca.

I'm the public utilities infrastructure manager, water, wastewater, reclaim water division.

Uh before you, as you heard, today's request approval purchase of ductal iron fittings, uh poly tubing.

Uh these fittings are necessary or part of our purpose of our inventory for our field repair.

These uh products will be stored in our centralized warehouse and tracked.

These are critical uh parts that are daily used in our maintenance and also our emergency events.

As you've heard, the two contractors are approved, they're the lowest in the responsive bids provided uh far as the city's strategic alignment.

This request supports high performance of government uh by maintaining public infrastructure through strategic management and efforts.

I'm happy to respond to any questions that you may have.

Okay, any questions on this agenda item?

Not do we have consent?

Yes, consent on 10.1.

Thank you.

And item 10.2.

Authorized an increase and a 90-day extension of the existing purchase order without a seat manufacturing.

Afternoon, Mayor and Council.

My name is Travis Tuber.

I'm the manager for the wastewater treatment division at Public Utilities.

Today I'm requesting your authorization to increase purchase order with Odyssey Manufacturing of Tampa by $300,000 and extend the contract term for 90 days to April 16th, 2026.

The increase will bring the annual not to exceed amount to 1,800,000 and will ensure continued supply of liquid sodium hydrochlorate, also known as bleach, as a critical disinfectant required for water and wastewater treatment.

This action directly supports our strategic plan for high performance government by maintaining responsive levels of service for public facilities and also provotes our environmental stewardship by effectively using resources and meeting all state and local federal uh guidelines and requirements for permitted uh use of this water.

I'm happy to respond to any questions you might have.

Any questions on this agenda item?

If not, do we have consent?

Yes, we have consent on agenda item 10.20.3.

Thank you.

Approve an agreement between Hadronex and Smart Cover Systems.

Afternoon, Mayor, Council, Michael Vacka, Public Utilities Infrastructure Manager Water Gravity and Reclaimable Water Divisions.

Today I'm requesting your approval for a two-year agreement renewal with hydronics doing the business as smart care cover systems on the amount of 400,000 three four hundred and thirty-eight thousand dollars and thirty-nine uh three hundred and thirty-nine, if I can get it right.

438,398 dollars and sixty-four cents.

This is non-competitive.

This is a two-year request renewal.

Uh this is essentially monitoring real at live now time monitoring the wastewater uh collection systems and its operations.

Uh by the by allowing us to have this type of service, allows us to help prevent and capture any SSOs before they begin.

Uh, this funding covers not only the software but the hardware maintenance and the potential acquiring of new 30 units if necessary.

Um this investment directly supports high performance government uh by optimizing city assets with uh evidence-based measurements of tools and systematic management of our public infrastructure.

Wow, what a challenge.

Thank you.

I apologize.

I'm uh happy to respond and answer any questions about this product, which I uh greatly support and currently run.

So we go thank you.

Any questions on this?

Do we have consent?

Yes, we have consent on 10.3.

Thank you, sir.

Agenda item 10.5.

Authorized purchase orders to Corn Maine for an Empire Pipe and Supply Company.

Again, Michael Vodka, Public Utilities Infrastructure Manager, Water Gravity Reclaim Mayor Council.

Again, uh, this proposal is for purchase of brass uh fittings.

Uh this purpose is essentially water infrastructures connections and repairs.

Uh the the vendors that we've selected is a primary and secondary award.

This is to ensure that we have readily available for those products.

These products uh are critical infrastructures that are will be stored and tracked inside our warehouses and used for our maintenance emergency events by the strategic alignment.

This request supports high proficiency of government uh through maintaining our public infrastructure while uh through systematic uh management and efforts.

Happy to respond to any questions that you may have.

Are you just as excited about brass fittings as you I can be?

It's very hard to come by, but we are very excited.

Thank you.

Yes, Mayor.

Real quick.

So Mike Backe, he's basically the um we refer to Matt Anderson as the Vaca Parks and Recs, by the way.

So that's how I play.

He uh came in today, I just learned to do these presentations.

It is his 24-year anniversary.

His wife has sat through the entire four hours here.

Um he was supposed to go to an early lunch or late lunch.

I think now it's going to be an early expensive dinner.

I wanted to thank coming in today.

He wanted to do the presentations himself.

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Happy anniversary.

We're so sorry.

Yeah, we have consent on agenda item 10.4, 11.1.

Approve a professional services agreement and work order with PVK architects.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Good afternoon, Mayor, Council Member.

I'm Arc Hader.

I'm the director of parks and recreation.

The item before you today, I was all up, you know, him going out in 24 years and everything.

He ought to go to Ocean Prime.

You know, I've been I know I'm broke.

I did that.

It was a good meal.

Um, the item before you today is the approval of a professional service agreement and work order with PBK architects for the design of the Eddie C.

Moore uh complex renovations, which will include the EC Moore fields one through four as well as the soccer fields east and west.

Um PBK work order will include schematic design, design development, construction documents permitting, bidding, uh, and the construction administration.

The plan will um is to have these uh services done within the next 10 months so that then we can go out to construction for the next 12 and be ready for uh all of the national tournaments that we have here in Clearwater on February 2028.

So that is our the our goal and our hope.

Um the city plans uh to bring on the design team, a construction manager within the very few uh next few months.

You'll be uh hearing from us about that, just to put them on the team so that they can be there to help with the construction.

Uh the total budgeted funds for this project uh are 21 million uh 780,000 700.

Why is everybody having trouble?

21,850,000, of which 7,750,000 is from a TDC grant, which all are very well aware of and have already approved.

Um with this item, we are requesting a transfer of funds at mid-year from athletic fields uh RR project M2207 to cover this contract and any other costs that might occur during this fiscal year.

The majority of all the funding is basically set up for next fiscal year.

That's why we needed to make those transfers.

I'm available to answer any questions, or uh I have my clockwood here as well, and I have Tanner.

I'm sorry, they're here.

And if anything goes wrong with it, David wants to fly.

I just don't want to be up here.

So any questions I can answer.

Any questions on this agenda?

No, do we have consent?

Yes, we have consent.

Thank you, ma'am.

Agenda item 12.1.

Appoint John Kerry to the Brown Fields Advisory Board to fill the resident category for a term to expire January 15, 2030.

Council members uh Sue Hart was filling this position the resident applic um category back in 23.

She completed a term, but it is difficult to find someone who actually resides in the area or at or represents a company, so we finally have somebody who is a resident and is the only applicant on file.

Okay.

Do we have consent?

Okay, we have consent on 12.1.

Thank you.

Agenda item 12.2.

Reappoint Phil Kirkpatrick to the Brownfields Advisory Board to fill the government representative category for a term to set um set to expire January 15, 2030.

Uh council members, he is filling the government representative category, and he is not required to live within the area, but um as a government representative, he works in the area, so that is how he fills that category.

Do we have consent?

We have consent on 12.2.

Yes, approve the mayor's reappointments of Melanie Humphrey to the Clearwater Housing Authority Board for a term ending January 15, 2030.

Council members, this is the one board where the mayor makes the appointments but seeks confirmation from the council, and she is the applicant on file, and she was willing to uh serve again on the board.

Questions or do we have consent?

We have consent, okay?

Consent on 12.3, 12.4.

Appoint Mark Lutz to the public art and design board as a citizen representative with a term set to expire January 15, 2030.

Sorry about the typo there.

Um Eric Seiler was filling the citizens representative category, and uh we actually have only one applicant who is able to fill in that category, Mr.

Lutz.

Discussion?

Do we have consent?

Yep, consent on 12.4, 12.5 reappointing Dean Strickland to the municipal code enforcement board with a term set to expire January 15, 2029.

Council members, Mr.

Strickland has been serving on the board and completed his term and is willing and actually wants to uh be reappointed.

So okay.

Any discussion on 12.5?

Do we have consent?

Yeah, we have consent on 12.5.

12.6.

Appoint an individual to the Marine Advisory Board with a term set to expire on January 15, 2030.

Council members, Miss Stanley was filling and completed her first term.

Um unfortunately, she is unable to continue serving on the board.

For your consideration, we have applications from Toby Braddenburg, an insurance agent, Evet Compton, a sales executive, David Ferrar, a real estate uh representative.

James Martin, an attorney, James Jamie Smith, a from Stella Power Company and CEO, and Eric Van Cleef, a sales executive.

Okay, Councilmember Cotton.

Uh yes, sir.

Thank you.

So thank you to everybody who applied.

That's a great representation of people willing to serve.

That's always good to see people wanting to step up and volunteer.

Um based on zip codes, and who's already uh serving on the board, two names um that came to me.

Um my top would be Toby.

Um Mr.

Brendenberg brings long-term Clearwater residency uh dating back to 1967 with direct maritime experience through voting in the U.S.

Navy service and demonstrated commitment to environmental stewardship through volunteer work with Bricker Creek Preserve, Sierra Club, his background aligns with the Marine Advisory Board's role and balancing access, conservation, and waterfront quality of life, uh, while also expanding uh geographic representation of the city.

My second would be Mr.

Forgive me, Clef.

Is that correct?

Ben Cleef, yes.

Okay.

Um Mr.

Van Cliff Cleef offers extension lead extensive leadership experience across large complex organizations according to uh the paperwork that they filled out and what I was able to read um with strong operational and process-driven mindset, his background in multi-site operations, logistics, safety, and customer service uh could provide those valuable system level perspectives for maritime infrastructure.

So uh as I said, both both of these gentlemen um do not share a zip code with something that's already been represented as well.

So look forward to the discussion.

Okay, Councilman Raw Britton.

Again, this is uh it's great to have you know six people uh going after this opening.

Uh and a few of them I I could recommend, however, the name that stands out to me is Jim Martin.

Uh he's been a voter for over 65 years, and uh I know him.

He's uh very involved with Clearwater on um, and I think he'd be a good good one to put on this board.

Okay.

I think this is the first time that none of us have mentioned the same name.

But I'm gonna continue with that.

Um I suggest I would suggest David Ferrar only because I have served with him on several boards, and I have um noted consistently that he is so active and passionate and responsible.

Um he's very passionate about his city, and um so based on my knowledge of how he has conducted himself to this point, as well as all his involvement.

I would suggest David Ferrar.

That's my two cents.

Well, there's one left, Councilman.

Seriously, again the other two.

I think there's a couple names we missed, so I'll I'm with you.

It's not I mean, obviously, this is an important discussion, but it's nice to see a handful of passionate people in our community willing to serve, uh, especially on our advisory boards, these are important.

Uh I really just went through them briefly and wrote down one, and that and that was Mr.

Braddenburg.

Um experience, longtime resident, uh geographic location that we've all said was important.

Um, but I'm I'm confident and comfortable any direction the board goes, but that's the name I wrote down.

Okay.

Well, I I know uh two of them personally.

Uh who would uh Jim Martin and David Ferrar would both be great.

Um I don't know that I know Mr.

Brandenburg, but I was impressed too uh with his resume, so I don't have a strong feeling.

Um so I'm I'm not really familiar with anybody that's already on that board, so do we already have a number from out on Clearwater Beach Island Estates and saying but how about this since there is no consensus, um we can push this to Thursday if you like.

I can ask the individuals who you've mentioned to attend the meeting, and if you have any questions, you can ask questions.

But right now it doesn't look like we have consensus on anyone.

I think I'd like to wait.

I'd like to learn more about these folks.

I didn't realize there was going to be this differences.

Um we can do that.

And maybe even I guess we're free to speak with so it'll be back on the agenda for Thursday, just not on consent.

That's okay.

Speak with the candidates ourselves.

So yeah.

Okay.

No, that's fine.

I I don't know that I'll have any questions from the information that's our game provided, I'll be honest with you.

But yeah, absolutely.

If you guys need that for sure.

Yeah.

That's the next one should be.

Okay.

12.7.

A point seven individuals for the community of resiliency and leisure services advisory board with terms set to expire on January 15, 2030.

Council members, this is the new board that we consolidated three of our former boards.

For your consideration, I do have um applications from Candice Gardner who was serving on the Parks and Recreation Board, Alison Greentham, a sales and marketing representative, Timothy Hughes, a retired environmental specialist who was also serving on the environmental advisory board.

Bianca Latvala in marketing uh served on the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board, Kelly Kelly, a business owner and radio host who served on the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board, Michael Rubino, air quality expert, Glena Wentworth, a retired mental health counselor who served on the environmental advisory board, and Nana Westmark, a retired environmental geologist.

And um if you have any questions, I just in full uh transparency.

I did ask the board liaison for the library advisory board to share that information that the applications were out.

I did meet with them prior to the ordinance being adopted and advised them if they were interested to apply, but we did not get any applications.

I just wanted to make sure that that was out there.

Okay.

Anybody have initial thoughts?

I mean, I guess it's all but one.

We get eight applicants for setting response.

Yeah, uh you know, I again went by zip code and trying to see you know what their experience was.

I put uh Miss Westmark, Mr.

Hughes, uh Miss Wentworth, uh Miss Kelly, uh Miss Grantham, Miss Gardner, Mr.

Rubino.

Um for various reasons.

Again, different zip code representations.

Um I'll just be brief here.

Mr.

Rabino specializes in air quality, environmental health.

Miss Gardner offers decades of Clearwater Civic Services according to her uh her application with Parks and Rec Advisory Board, Library Advisory Board, and Community Relations Board.

Uh Miss Grantham brings family focused resident centered viewpoints that seem to be uh grounded in an active use of Clearwater's parks, libraries, and youth programs with professional experience in communications and stakeholder engagement.

Miss Kelly, I think we all know her.

She's obviously very engaged in the community and pretty much knows everybody as well as been to and documented all of our parks.

Um Miss Wentworth, Vert, once again, somebody who's very engaged, uh provides that critical connection between environmental resiliency and the human health aspect.

Um I put Mr.

Hughes as he offers extensive public sector experience and watershed protection, stormwater management, GIS analysts, uh analysis and environmental program implementation, and Miss Westmark bringing more than 30 years of professional uh environmental science experience.

Um I'll leave it at that because there's a lot of people to go through, but those are the reasons as to why in accordance with zip codes that I want with those people.

Any other thoughts?

Well, I agree with everything uh except for um I would exchange the Ms.

Grantham for uh Miss Letball.

That's the only difference between yours and mine.

Okay, anybody else when I was going through it, I was just trying to make sure that of the boards that were consolidating that if we have existing members serving on those boards to make sure that we have representation that we're uh polling from.

I I guess is there anybody in this list without going through it as a reminder that isn't currently serving on one of those three boards?

Yes, Miss Grantham and Miss Westmark, Mr.

Rubino.

Are the ones who weren't on any of the boards?

Currently a lot of all of those boards.

We couldn't fill seven spots.

Interesting.

That's okay.

So they were we got applicants.

Oh no, no.

They were sure they served on the board.

No, but those two that didn't serve Rubino and Westmore are the ones with air quality it was an air quality expert and a senior geologist.

So that's to me more of a priority than whether they serve the board.

So um as part of the membership, there was a suggestion, a preference rather for three individuals with professional environmental background.

So I know I I tried to get more applications for the seven C's, but you got eight.

Well, I I think trying to carry people over.

So uh Miss Lebella since you already served on the board.

I think I would agree with Vice Mayor to Miss Grantham, who very impressed with her experience as well.

But I would agree to put Miss Latvella on instead.

So everybody except Grantham, basically.

Yes.

Just trying to make it easier.

How's that?

I mean, I think that'll be fine too.

I think listen, we had a great amount of lists, and I think we all know uh Bianca as well.

I think that she would be good too with marketing background on what she does as well.

So it wasn't a set in stone list, it was just what I had seen basis basing it to on zip code uh differentiation.

So that's why I did what I did.

So that's the only reason I would do it.

It's not anything against Mrs.

Grant.

I'm glad she applied for it, and I hope she applies for another board.

But I'm okay with that.

I'm good with that.

Okay.

Yes.

Okay.

Schedule a special work session on Monday, February 9, 2026 at 9 a.m.

And on Wednesday, March 4, 2026 at 2 p.m.

for the purpose of holding a strategic planning session at the morningside recreation center.

So council members, this year staff is proposing two sessions, uh, one in the morning and then the afternoon for your um for the purpose of fulfilling the council rule.

That's fine.

Or rather, council policy.

And they are held on your calendar, so we we did make sure of that as well.

Okay.

Very good.

Everybody consent to that.

Yes.

Yeah, all right.

Consent to 12.

Um 12.8, 12.9.

Approve the 2026 state legislative agenda.

Council members, I have included a copy of the proposed items for the funding request.

We have already submitted and have secured our sponsorships for our appropriations requests.

So elevate Bay Shore Boulevard, um, backup emergency power generator connections and the lift station rehab program.

That is one of the benefits of having a now second year, I would say third year, second to third year, where we're actually having a grant schedule working with staff so it makes it easier to identify those projects that are ready for appropriations or grant funding.

And then under issues to support uh I can go through them all, but for topics if depending, I don't know, because it's almost four o'clock.

Um, we have attainable housing, education, local governance, and a lot of um the items under the local governance because I think based on what we're going through right now, uh I've got allow local governments to regulate vacation rental properties to protect the health and welfare of their residents, visitors, and businesses, preserve municipal government authority over equitable property tax decisions that fund essential programs and services such as public safety, infrastructure, parks, and libraries, which define a community and support residents' quality of life, maintain municipal authority to establish reasonable extraterritorial surcharges that reflect the actual cost of providing services outside of city limits, protecting municipal residents from subsidizing outside customers.

We all know that right now our most of our run revenue sources are being under attack during this session.

We really don't know what's going on.

Bills are still being filed, and the you know session begins tomorrow, so the fund is about to begin.

Um public safety, I have prohibit the carrying of weapons of firearms into specified locations, including government buildings, educational institutions, and public government meetings, provide additional funding to local governments to address requirements of unauthorized public camping, sleeping, and that's as a result of the former House Bill 1375, which requires local governments to address the problem with law enforcement as a compliance tool.

Sustainability and resiliency provide additional funding to my state Florida home, assisting eligible homeowners with free and mitigation with with free wind mitigation, home inspections and matching grants for five homes against hurricane damage.

Continue funding the state's beach renourishment program, increase funding for the resilient Florida grants program to assist municipalities with implementing climate resilient infrastructure and our usual um items that we oppose and uh that's protecting our home rule authority, um, increasing the regulation of or restriction of municipal operating and budgeting, deterioration of existing laws related to the offshore oil oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, restriction or elimination of committee redevelopment agencies, and imposed consolidation municipal and county services.

Now, these aren't all the bills that will be addressed during session, but I think these are the major ones.

But we obviously work with our lobbyists and with the Ford League of Cities, so that items that do come that are not identified here will be addressed as well.

Any questions, comments?

Vice Mayor.

Yes.

I'm fine with everything.

I just wish that um, especially in with what's been happening lately under issues to oppose where it says increased regulation of or restriction on municipal operations and budgeting.

I would love to include um including commission projects, activities and public art.

Okay.

I don't know how the rest of the council feels.

Don't mess with my art.

You have a problem?

No, no.

As long as it's not in the road.

Oh no, there's no road.

I'm talking about um commissioned artistic projects.

You're good.

Uh it's too soon.

Okay.

I I have a question.

Um I see this as an in in order alphabetically when this is presented.

The support y yes, that's the topics are alphabetical, but I'm trying to picture our finished product that we will be distributing.

It'll be nicer than that.

I know it'll look nicer.

But will it be presented in a different form like priorities?

Because I know from Florida League of Cities, uh in some coast league of cities, they're basically only worried about property tax throughout the entire state.

That's their biggest and only, and I feel like it's kind of buried.

I feel like that is pretty high priority.

Um I I'm supportive of all of them.

I'm just wondering, sometimes when we leave these on a desk of an elected official in Tallahassee, it's scanned for maybe seven seconds and they don't see the rest or look at it because they're so busy, understandably so.

But maybe if it's prioritized versus off of a time, the council wishes to rearrange the that that is fine.

I can just tell you that working with our lobbyists and I'm also working with staff and working with the League of Cities, just because it's not in listed as the top because there is no no value given to it, it's all gonna be advocated and worked for at the same level.

Okay.

But that that's council's decision.

And I guess you could say if you see it alphabetically, then it's kind of an indication that that none of them are priority over the other ones, I guess.

And I've already been working with staff and working with the League of Cities, providing and sharing the information with all the bills regarding property taxes.

So I understand.

I know that that is their main thing, and I know with the Suncoast League of Cities, it is their only item.

Um, but the city has staff has identified other areas as well that we want to maintain as well.

Okay.

No, I agree.

That was just the first thing that caught me was seeing it alphabetized versus prioritized, and not and I'm good either way.

I'm not sure.

It doesn't matter to me, so I just thought to put it in alphabetical order, but we can rearrange it.

Okay.

Do we have a date firmed up when we're going to Tallahassee?

Is that third week in February?

February 10th.

February 10th.

Yeah.

Okay.

It's already on your it should be on your calendars.

I've already um we've worked with your staff to reserve the hotel room.

So it's well, that's our best option to bring this with us and go ahead and talk to the people that you know can help us with that.

Okay.

All right.

Any further discussion on this?

Not thank you.

Move to 13.1.

13.1 is a second reading.

Um, just gonna mention briefly on this one.

Uh, we had what I believe will likely be the final meeting of the pension advisory committee uh last Thursday.

Um, if this ordinance is approved uh as written, the PAC will effectively be dissolved because uh it no longer serves a particular function, those functions having been transferred either to the trustees, to the city manager, or some combination of both.

Um that said, uh happy to answer any questions.

Yeah.

Any questions on 13.1?

13.2.

Uh 13.2 is our second reading on the private public partnerships.

Um, as a reminder, um, this the repeal of this, or I'm sorry, the amendment uh does not mean that the city is stopping the concept of private public partnerships.

It just means that as the legislature updates the law, the intent is for the city to follow the amended statute so that way our ordinance doesn't become outdated over time as the legislature uh modifies the law, which they've done a couple times over the years.

Thank you.

Any questions on that one?

Not 13.3.

13.3 and 13.4 are slip and fall cases.

Um, just gonna say a couple things on this, and of course, not the substance of the litigation, uh, but um since Mr.

Fueno is appointed as city attorney for Northport, uh, we've been actively recruiting for his position.

Uh we have a recruiter who's working with us, uh, and we've gotten a few applicants, but um it's a tough time to be recruiting, at least for this position.

The feedback that we're getting from the recruiter is that because downtown Clearwater is located so far on the west side of Pinellas County, it is hard to convince people to relocate, say, from Tampa where they're living, or the east side of St.

P or to drive all the way from Tampa every day.

We are currently a full-time in-office environment.

We have gotten some feedback and some requests from a couple candidates as well as from the recruiter to consider it either making this a hybrid role, uh, a remote role.

That's something previously we have not done a lot.

Manager and I have talked about this a little bit as it relates to staff interaction, um, but that's just something I wanted you to be aware of.

The other challenge as it relates specifically to the litigator role, is that frankly, a lot of the people who are really good in this space are billing a ton of hours at private firms, and to take a pay cut to come and work for the government is not always very attractive if you're billing 2,000 hours a year at a big firm and you're you know a real grinder as a litigator.

And so we have both a substantive challenge in recruiting to the litigator position as well as our locational challenge uh in downtown Clearwater being so far from some of our other population centers.

So just be aware of that.

That's not anything we can do or control right now.

Um, I just wanted the council to know that um me and my team have been like actively trying to recruit them for this role, uh, and we're still working on that.

So if it goes beyond my tenure as city attorney, we will continue to outsource uh because we have no choice, but within the realm of outsourcing, uh I've been keeping a very close eye on our spend for this.

Um right now we're fine on budget.

Uh these law firms and these lawyers who do this kind of work tend to charge a discounted hourly rate.

However, uh, that's something we're keeping a close eye on from a budget standpoint uh so that we don't uh you know go over budget if we can avoid it.

So we have consent then on 13.3 and 13.4.

Yes.

We have consent.

13.5.

Mayor 13.5 is the renewal of our workers' compla agreement with the law firm of Banker Lopez.

Um Mr.

Hungate uh has been representing the city since 2008.

However, uh, he has been uh practicing law for many many decades.

Um I've had conversations with Mr.

Hungate recently about how long he intends to practice candidly.

I mean, I would say he's probably uh in the twilight of his career at this point.

I think he would agree with that.

Um, however, he is has indicated that he does intend to continue practicing for at least the next couple years.

Um, I've seen no evidence or reason to doubt his capability in that regard, so certainly I'm comfortable recommending the renewal of that.

He does have a lot of institutional knowledge regarding Clearwater and certainly is an expert uh in the field of workers comp.

Once the city does get through Mr.

Hungate's time as an attorney or once he does retire, I would encourage the city to consider doing an RFP for this candidly.

If I was staying here in the years ahead, um I would do an RFP for this just because of the size of the contract.

It is not required because legal services are exempt.

However, um, I do think it would be a good practice for the city to consider that um just as you look for taxpayer protection in the years ahead.

That's all okay.

Any questions?

Do we have consent?

Yes, we have consent.

On 13.5 agenda item 14 city manager reports.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um, just two things.

One, um, I know we've had a a lot of media and we've talked a lot about Mama Duck.

Um, but I did want to just make sure to thank especially Amber Bryce for all her efforts and her tenacity in continuing to ask for this doc.

It's been a dream of hers for a couple of years, and for her to you know stick with it and take being told no multiple times and when you know, but the timing had to be right, and I think indeed it is.

Um so certainly want to thank her, but not just her.

Um, you know, as is most of our larger pun intended um endeavors, it's a group effort.

Um most I mean, there's a lot of departments that are involved in this, even public utilities, um, some of the departments that you wouldn't necessarily associate with some of our big our large special event type things.

Um so just want to thank everybody who put in the work to make this um a special event and to make Mama Duck be a success.

So wanted to thank all the teams for that.

And then the second item I have is just some good news.

I I have shared just briefly in our one-on-ones, but um Senator Moody had been doing some work to try and get FEMA to acknowledge in writing that they would contemplate the approval of some extensions on projects that have exceeded the time span that what FEMA typically allows of 18 months.

Um and they had been working towards a meeting, they've had the meeting, they were successful in that meeting, um, in so much as not to get a guarantee that there will be extensions, but that they're going to contemplate having those extensions.

Um and they were very grateful.

Senator Movie's office was very grateful to our team for all the work they put into getting them that information and have asked to have another meeting so that we can continue to be um providers of information and data to help them with that as they decide how to formulate their responses to that.

So our team will be meeting um with Senator Moody's office to continue to further that.

So again, just some good news and maybe a little bit of hope in that um some of those projects that are still being worked on will be eligible for consideration from FEMA.

Thank you.

Nothing right now.

Item 16.1.

Councilmember Cotton.

Thank you, sir.

Um, this is just my agenda item on bringing back public comment.

The majority of the council wanted time to think about it.

Um again, same consideration or request, essentially bringing back public comment the way it was, just limiting it to 30 minutes instead of 60.

Each speaker still gets three minutes, prohibiting time sharing.

Um yeah, that's it.

So open for discussion, what you're all's thoughts are now that we've had you know a few weeks to think about it and see where we're at.

I I'm I'm not opposed to it.

Um as I said last time, I I would just like to see us uh do it differently so that it doesn't impact those folks who are coming showing up for an important agenda item that many folks come out for an agenda item.

They've never been to a council meeting before, there's something really pressing that and uh so I what I don't want to see is do is get back into the habit where this, if it's on the agenda, it's up front where these folks who um you know I mean we've had a couple cases where they came out for an agenda item first time ever really important to them and left after all the you know the drama at the first meeting.

So I'm not opposed to it.

I just like to see us do it in a way that doesn't dissuade or discourage folks from coming out to speak on a regular agenda item.

So I don't know what you might propose for doing it differently than what we did before, but that's that'd be what I would like to say.

After discussing with the uh city attorney, I mean we can still put it anywhere within the agenda item that we want.

So it doesn't have to necessarily be in the beginning, then we can put it at the end before maybe city manager verbal reports.

If that's what we so choose, um I think it just goes back to when people are having problems being allowed to tell us about their specific problem.

Um and have all upper staff here as well as ourselves to hear that and take notice of it and either contact them back or contact through the city manager's office the appropriate person of trying to handling that problem better and give those people that opportunity to redress us.

So I don't think it necessarily I I don't care where it goes within the meeting, especially not to try and um inhibit others who do enjoy coming to the meeting and might want to speak to a specific agenda item from doing so.

So if we want to even interject it at the end of the meeting, I'm fine with it.

That that would be my concerns that way that doesn't understand what you're saying, but and we all know that the folks who have come and it got to the point, maybe it was a temporary thing, maybe I'll go back to to being the way it used to be.

Um, but it got to be where it was very few people coming out for a legitimate, you know, community concern related to clear water.

We had tons of people coming out to talk about things that you know from four hours away that uh the you know, some might say we're putting on a show rather than you know addressing a community clear water concern.

So I just think from my end, uh you know, I I am certainly welcome that kind of feedback from the community and that opportunity.

I just hope we do it in a way that doesn't uh discourage others from local community members from attending.

So I'm gonna learn the thing.

May I just respond to that real quick too?

I appreciate that and I share those concerns.

That's why I went ahead and you know, originally with 60 minutes, I dropped it down to 30.

Uh no time sharing, therefore, I genuinely believe if you have something that you want to say to us, you should be able to say it.

And and those other people that are sharing time, if you feel similar conviction, don't just sit in the audience, stand up and tell us.

Um, so that's why again, I've limited it to three minutes, no time sharing.

Uh, and well, not limited to three minutes, it's already been three minutes, no time sharing and limited the time.

And and you know, it's something that I think that the city clerk could just keep track of when we start that portion of the meeting.

30 minutes, timer goes off, first come, first serve, max of ten people.

We might not even feel 10 people, you know.

Um, but it still gives all of those people that have something to say that they want to say to us the ability to do so.

Is there any was there any um I mean there's that suggest that we limit it potentially to Pinellas County residents, or is there so I thought about that and discussed it, uh the city attorney and I, and I think that just puts more of a burden on the city um clerk's office, being honest, you know, and trying to vet those people just before coming in.

What would what do they bring to show that they're a stakeholder?

Do they bring uh business certificate, a the uh proof of ownership in a land or business here as well as a photo ID, what happens if somebody has one but not the other, do they still get time to speak?

That's why I think that we just go back to what we had with the new parameters that I'm petitioning at a different time in the meeting, and uh, you know, those people that really are passionate about what they want to say, they'll stick around.

Those that that aren't, they won't stick around.

And again, max of three minutes, no time sharing, max time of 30 minutes.

So, other thoughts?

No.

Yeah.

Um, okay, thank you.

I'm I'm okay um with the thought with the idea.

I I definitely understand where you're coming from.

I mean, we've already walked this path of the decision-making process as a group, and it was a challenging decision on all of us.

It wasn't it wasn't easy.

The last thing we want to do uh is take away the public's uh ability to be engaged in their local government and to communicate with us.

Um I would say that you know it it's a little easier to make a decision in this environment because it changed.

Um, but I think we should remind ourselves why it changed, what did we do to help that change and facilitate it.

I mean, it wasn't that long ago.

Citizens, staff, some of us on the dais felt unsafe.

We were using words like hostility.

We were rewarding grandstanding and mic drop moments.

Uh we we were derailing some of our agendas.

We were constantly hearing misinformation that doesn't help the community, and we were creating legal and ethical risks, um, not just for the gavel in the city attorney's office, but for our men our men and women uh protecting us in here.

Um I I think what we were doing in that system, so I'm I'm open to finding something else.

I I feel like what we were optimizing expression uh and not governance, and I I think if the goal is effective decision making and mean it meaningful public input the structure that we put in place in that decision-making process, I think that overweighs and beats the the openness that we're searching for.

So I have I have a challenge juggling this, but I mean we made we went through this, we made a decision, you know, based on all those circumstances, and we were governing more efficiently.

These meetings are more productive, staff and everybody feel safe, and we checked a lot of boxes, although there are you know consequences that come with that decision.

So I just want to remind us on how we got here before we make that decision, but I am open and I'm not going to stand uh and argue uh either way or fight for one way or another if it's a decision we make as a group, uh I'll support it.

Customer Robert I think it's important to have it.

Um although I have been uh enjoying the peaceful meetings we've had lately, but um that's not really something I should not you know worry about.

Um I do think it's good to have the public come in to say things that really need to be said to us and to staff.

I think maybe moving it to the end is the best.

I think limiting it 30 minutes with a three-minute no-sharing thing is would work better.

Uh we can try it, and uh I I think maybe we should.

I'd be for doing that, but in the end of the meeting, that way people know that they can come at the end of the meeting and they can look at the agenda online and say, well, it's gonna be a long meeting, a short meeting, and they don't have to come to the very beginning of the meeting, and they can come in at some point.

Um I think we're still gonna give some of the same people that came before, unfortunately.

But um, you know, I think it allows our citizens to come and talk to us directly uh if there's any problems, and I think that's maybe outweighs some of that stuff that we have to put up with.

Um, listening to all of you, uh if I had to uh align, I would do it with uh council member Manino in the sense of like there's so much I'm considering.

So I in order to kind of you know uh keep that all together and try to figure out a decision.

I kind of just put two ropes, right?

So on the one hand, you have those who feel that email, voice, voice calls, or um or um I guess meetings are not enough.

They want that public forum, they want it on record, and they want um that venue to express what they have to say.

There are many of those who have communicated to me that feel that that's important, that public on record maximum exposure to have their message uh be brought out.

Um but on the other hand, you have fewer people but who have a legitimate concern about their safety or being in a hostile environment.

Um I don't like the challenges that it um or difficult situation that it puts our first responders in as well as our staff.

So, like, how do you weigh that?

Um so if we're going to reinstate it, I believe we need to ensure that we minimize the risk of of that circus to happen again, changing the time would be a great option.

Um maybe even decreasing the time so that it it just doesn't become this arduous and in in circus atmosphere.

So I'm willing to go forward, but it has to be further restricted.

You have to have more control to honor those who who feel that they were not safe or or they felt that they they weren't uh able to be here.

So changing the time to the end definitely is something I would agree with, the other parameters as well.

But I don't know if that's just enough.

Maybe I don't know, just a discussion left.

Mr.

Mayor, if I can.

I will say that even with my discussions with you know the city attorney, I don't feel like First Amendments have been trampled here.

When there's an a business item, people have been able to speak to that openly, freely.

Again, this just comes to the other information that people might be affecting them that they want to share with us, you know.

Um when we first all got elected, it was uh trees, right?

We've seen a cyclical little thing for a while until we put a pause on it and then it stopped.

But there's always, you know, through uh certain rough terrain, there's always been a few people that had valid reasons for us to get the information to reach out to a city manager, assistant city manager, legal, and try and help that citizen out, right?

And call them back or or get their contact information to set up a meeting or something like that.

And that's where I think that um, you know, even if it's one person, that's that's our job.

That's why we're here is to be able to hear that one person.

And um, I mean, if you I don't know how much further uh of a restriction you are looking for.

I thought that this was fair, you know, limiting the time in half, um, not allowing for the sharing of time, it keeps that person in their three minutes.

Um, and and I think that that does a good service.

You still have the ability to tell us what your issue is.

I mean, we all know, we know, we don't respond during that time.

I know the citizens usually don't know that, but at least we're able to get their side of the information, may not even take three minutes, and and we know that it's not gonna go over that, and then we can filter that information by getting the information back from the city clerk and moving on.

Yes, ma'am.

So my question would be clarification.

So I know there was a discussion regarding um limiting it to residents or Pinellas County residents or those who have um business with the city, and confirming that information, I agree would be difficult right before the meeting.

Uh something to think about and maybe um clarify would be if there is a sign-up sheet, the sign-up sheet can be in the back, they can fill it out, but require them to fill out the comment card.

And so that they present them because right now it's it's not it's it's suggested, but it's not a requirement, and so I think that kind of limits.

But in the event we have so many, and we we run through the time of the 30 minutes, then I have them and I can share them with council, and then council can contact those individuals.

You're gonna you're gonna need a sign-up list or something to show priority in case you do run out of time.

And and with that, I would say that you know, I mean, first come, first serve.

You put that sign up list, even with maybe security out there.

Are you here to speak?

Here's your comment card, put them on a clipboard, and hey, time's full, but we'll still take your comment card, um, and maybe come back the next one, let those people know then.

You know, we already have our 10 speakers at max, right?

Now we'll still take your comment card and look forward to you maybe coming out the next meeting, but to limit the case.

And if that is the case, then I think that should be clarified, and maybe the city attorney can provide comments if it's gonna be a rolling list of speakers because one meeting had too many, which I that's not what I envision.

No, I would still think it's first come, first serve.

First serve, okay.

Yeah, even we'll still take your comment card.

That doesn't mean you're number one on the list next time.

Each meeting's a new meeting.

Okay, perfect.

You have something that's important for you to say, you're gonna be there.

I mean, I know I would listen, I'm here, you know.

Understood.

530, sitting in the line.

Um that's just that's that's my thoughts on how this can go.

I think that it's uh an equal compromise.

I think that it uh could potentially steady the ship and then allow people uh to have that freedom back to let us know what's going on in our city, how we can help them.

And and my hope is that's what she's for.

Um because that's really that was that is the original purpose of it.

This folks come in from the community and bring to us maybe concerns we didn't know about.

Um but uh with all things internet and social media, it got way away from that.

It became um came for some people a broadcasting platform to push their own agenda, push their own.

I had a had had a group reach out to me the other day, wanted to come to a meeting to uh basically sell a product.

Uh they want a time at a council meeting.

And that that's not what this is for.

This is for us to hear from local citizens about issues.

But it's with all the things internet, it's become a chance for folks to campaign for something or put or sell something or do something, and that's what I've seen since I've been we've been here for three years, uh two years.

It's been 80 to 90 percent of that.

Somebody pushing an agenda or pushing something campaigning, and that's not what it was for.

So uh I think we're all okay with trying it with the limitations we've had on sign-up sheet, sounds good.

So we've got priority and then um so we need to put on an upcoming agenda to change the council rules to do that.

Yeah, uh so uh there's a few different variables on this that I'm writing down.

So one of them is the total time limitation.

Uh and so whether it's gonna be 30 minutes, 60 minutes, whatever it is.

So first I want to make sure that there's consensus on the total time limitation per meeting.

Is there a consensus on proposed 30 minutes?

Yeah.

Okay.

All right, so I think that's the first part.

The second question is going to be um at what stage in the meeting should these occur.

I know we've been talking about potentially the end of the meeting, um, but that can mean a couple different things.

So if we think about the sequence of the meeting, Clark can certainly chime in on this, but I think the normal sequence is that we go through uh consent agenda kind of early on, then go through public hearings, then go through ordinances.

So if we're talking about, we'll say later in the meeting, one option is to put it after the ordinances but prior to city manager reports.

That's one option.

Another option is to put it after city manager and city attorney reports, and then a third option will be to put it kind of right before I would say closing comments by council members, right?

So those are probably the three options.

It could either be uh right after second reading of ordinances but before city manager reports, or it could be between city attorney reports and council discussion items for the next session, or it could be right before um closing comments by council members.

And you can, by the way, you can always change these.

So this is just this is just for the initial drafting, because I have to put it somewhere when I'm drafting.

I I think I put it after the council discussion items that way we're through all scheduled business.

So just before city manager verbal report.

Well, no, for new business, I guess.

Yeah, but what I don't have the council meeting agenda in front of me, but I saw that councilman Robert.

Okay, so I just want to clarify something.

We're talking about public comment here.

And a lot of the public gets up and think it's a debate, it's a debate or it's a conversation, and they ask us, well, what do you think about this?

And this it's not that, it's public comment.

And the whole idea is if they have an issue that needs to be they need to get it out, so we understand what the issue is.

We're not gonna be discussing it with them, but we got staff here that will listen to what they're saying, and that's why they get the comment card because then the staff, the appropriate staff, can get with them and hopefully solve their issue or problem.

But you know, I've had so many people over the years get up here and they think it's a conversation with us, and you know, they're asking the city attorney, well, what do you think about this?

And you know, it's not, it's it's a comment, public comment.

So you limit it to three minutes, you can say a lot in three minutes of whatever your problem is, and then staff can get with you and figure, you know, and I I don't care, it should be toward the end.

I don't care really where it is, but that should maybe be in the pup in the comment card.

This is public comment, not discussion.

Someone staff or city manager will get with you and help solve your problem.

But it gives you the the you know, gives you the opportunity to get up and say it.

So all of us can hear it, and then we can follow up with uh staff and say, Did you get Mrs.

Smith's problem taken care of?

You know, it uh by tech by speaking out with all of us, there's benefit to that instead of just an email or something like that.

So that's why I think it's important because they can get up and they can whatever their issue is, they can talk, it's public record, and then we can follow up with it, make sure staff is you know responded to them appropriately.

That's all I wanted to say.

Thank you, Mayor.

Uh, just to remind us that again we've we went through this whole you know discussion and in depth in all of our one-on-ones and with the city attorney and on the dias and with city manager.

One of the things we went through over a year ago was open comment on the beginning of the meeting.

Some were supportive that it were making this decision or this thought process based on an environment in front of us that's been used as you know, hostile or whatever, whatever the words might be, and it gets out of the way, and sometimes those distractions leave.

What we were identifying then over a year ago was the fear of if you put this on the back end of the agenda like we're talking now, you might have that distraction and environment for your entire meeting, waiting for the opportunity.

They're not just gonna show up for the end and just say, now's my time.

You're gonna keep them in here.

Well, what time is it now?

4 30.

We've been here three and a half hours.

If Thursday's meeting's that long, you're gonna have those distractions sitting here.

What could be you know, three, four hours.

So just it's just a reminder that we kind of we walked this walk already and made these decisions.

So, you know, again, I'll I'll support front end or back end.

It sounds like you're more supportive as a group on putting on the back end, but if you have 30 minute time, I don't know how you can do it.

5:30 before the meeting begins, yeah.

So I think that that's why uh it wouldn't be its own separate meeting.

And I'm not trying to encumber staff by being here any earlier or doing anything extravagant.

Um I quite frankly do not, it does not matter to me where we put it in the meeting.

Um I think that we just need to hold strong to the rules we put forward, and if we agree to 30 minutes, the the clerk starts a timer as soon as you say we're in the public comment portion, 30 minutes goes off, you either stop it or I mean it should be perfect, right?

Three minutes, max of ten people, um, and just and just keep it going.

Um I don't know that it'd be beneficial to do a full second meeting, to be honest or beforehand.

You know, to be truthful, you're not gonna have 10 people come in at every meeting with issues from citizens of Clearwater.

It's very rare that you'll get two or three of them.

The rest of them will just be grandstanders that want to get up and have a circus, but I think lit limiting it is good, and three minutes is enough time.

It's it's always been three minutes, and um you know, if we find that that it doesn't work at the end of the meeting, we can change it, right?

Can we change it?

Uh which part are we talking about the sequence of it?

Are we talking about having it at all?

Yeah, the sequence is certainly easy to easy to change.

The the only thing the only caution I would offer is this.

The sequence, I think you can change as often as you want, move it wherever you want in the meeting as as frequently as you like.

Um the only thing I would observe, and Council McConnell and I talked about this a little bit before the meeting.

Uh if you modify the rules too often, uh, and particularly if we modify the rules relating to who can speak too often, it may start to create a perception or appearance that we favor or disfavor certain viewpoints for certain speakers, and that's something I would encourage us to be really careful about.

I'm not worried about that today.

I don't think we're there right now, but if we keep doing it too often and keep deciding, well, it's gonna be local stakeholders this month, and no, it's not gonna be next month, and just change it too often or get rid of it, bring it back, get rid of it, bring it back.

At some point, I do have a concern that we may start to create a pattern that somebody could cite to.

Again, I'm not worried about that today, but um just something to keep in mind in the in the future.

The sequence of it, I wouldn't sweep sweat it.

I mean, sequence, I think you can change as often as you want, but as it relates to uh who can speak, and particularly if you're going to have a rule for local stakeholders, I would encourage the council to pick a rule and stick with it for a while if if you can.

What's the rationale for putting this at the end of the meeting?

Is it just so that the staff the staff and most of the people that are on in the audience can avoid or have a choice of avoiding it?

Is that is that why we're we're considering putting at the end?

Because you brought up a good point.

I mean, mind you, they do walk away, but if we have problematic um individuals who are just grandstanding, the idea of having them here for three and a half hours is not uh it's not my favorite thing.

Well, it's been it's been safety.

I mean, we've had not just elderly people, we've had women.

We have that that they have to sit through all this craziness, and uh they don't they don't feel safe.

Um that's that's the reality.

I mean, we uh and that's my my concern I start off with.

Um what what are we missing by not having this on our agenda?

Essentially, I would share with you nothing.

We we I mean I've got a stack of handwritten letters that thick.

We got 350 emails from on one issue here recently.

I mean, believe me, people are communicating with us about their concerns that are not on the agenda uh regularly.

Uh there are all kinds of ways to reach out.

Uh, I mean, I really don't think we're quashing very much public input.

There's anybody that says, gosh, I can't go to a meeting, so I can't express my concern.

Um, but that's my major concern is that somebody who does have an agenda, maybe it's a zoning, maybe it's a neighborhood issue, uh, that they never come out of the meeting before.

They want to come out, they want to speak on this, and they are so intimidated or threatened by what happens during that having this at the front of the meeting that they don't stay, they leave, or they they say, I I didn't sign up for this, I don't feel comfortable.

I want to protect the the those business items.

People are coming out to address something that we're getting ready to take action on.

That that should be our priority for our meetings.

And so I'm fine with adding it back on, but if we do, I don't want somebody to get up and leave because whatever happens, and we can't control who's gonna come to open mic and who's gonna do a comedy routine or who's gonna try to get thrown out so that they can do it, and that that's where we're at.

So um I I don't want to see that.

We we really want Clearwater citizens to feel if we're gonna have it, feel like they can uh you know, they can come and share their thoughts, but they're not gonna do it in a way that runs other people off.

And we've seen some people don't care if they run people off.

They don't care if they make other people uncomfortable or fearful.

Thank you, sir.

So speaking to safety, I understand what you're saying, but having or not having a public comment is not going to deter a bad actor.

Somebody wants to do something to cause true harm or safety, those people are gonna do it.

And and you know, I'm not saying that nobody that this is the belief of this board, but the men and women who sit here to protect us, I fully believe are trained and prepared to do the job necessary.

So I I hear what you're saying with safety, but regardless if we have a public comment for items not on the agenda is not gonna cause somebody to want to do mayhem.

Um so when it comes to safety, I that's just kind of where I stand on it.

You know, when you see uniformed officers out in you know the lobby at the start of this, you have them in the front and the back.

Thursday night we might have four.

Each corner of the audience.

If anything, that should exude safety.

You're literally on four points protected by some of the best men and women in law enforcement, in my opinion, in the country.

So the thought of safety is is kind of a moot point to me because it doesn't matter whether you do a public comment on items out of the agenda.

Somebody's gonna do something bad, they're gonna come through that door and they're gonna do something bad.

It doesn't mean like, oh, this is my chance.

Public comment for not on the agendas here, I can do my bad thing.

So that's just where I sit with the thought of safety.

Now, I understand what you're conveying.

The feeling of being safe in an elderly woman or somebody else, yeah, single mom, seeing somebody in a plate carrier, or seeing somebody with a terrible language on their shirt.

I I don't know what to say to that.

That's just it is what it is.

This is a public meeting for anybody to come and speak to us.

I've tried my best to appease uh the board, if you will, and and making certain limitations that I don't think are necessary.

I think that have articulated why I've eliminated certain things or reduced certain time.

Um and listen, I'll just leave it at that, but I did want to come back to the safety because we do keep hearing about safety.

I feel very safe.

I've always felt very safe here, no matter who stands at this podium, no matter what they're wearing, no matter what they've said.

And I get it.

That's just me.

I've had a different life experience than many people.

Um but I feel very safe.

And I don't think that a public comment is going to make or break the feeling of safety that I have in this room.

Well, again, that you know, I appreciate sure that's your perspective.

I'm chairman with the there are a lot of folks who feel more vulnerable in their homes and everyday lives, and they express fears for their safety.

That's their perspective.

And and again, uh I I don't I'm not trying to dissuade public comment.

We want public, we want people to write to his calls.

But for the before the essentially a business meeting for the city, I want to make sure that folks who are coming out to speak to an item, a business item on that agenda that's very important to them in the moment.

We're gonna remote on it, that they feel like it's a welcoming environment for them to come speak to agenda items.

Um, and that that's my only concern is that however we handle this behind a way that doesn't discourage people from doing that in any way.

Yeah, I mean, the only thing that I can say to that is you know what one of our founders said, and that is if you're willing to give up liberty for safety, then you're going to in turn get neither, and you deserve neither.

So I mean, this is just the people's right to say what they need to say before their elected officials and city staff.

And you know, that's for the soccer mom and for whoever else the the scenario is it is what it is.

If you have something that you want to come and speak to us about, and you're sitting in the audience and something's making you feel uncomfortable, it might sound harsh.

What I'm about to say, if you feel like it's unsafe and you need to leave, then you need to do that, you know.

I these I will also say that the past few meetings over the past few months have been seamless.

They've been great.

I think that we can all agree, right?

I I don't think that bringing back public comment is going to bring uh a certain amount of people back to a meeting because now they can uh have free range of anything.

If anything, we'll probably get championing emails back, like, hey, thank you for instilling this back, you know.

Um I could be very wrong.

I I hope that I'm not, but regardless, I still do believe that we need to allow these people to not just send the six of us on a CC to email their issue.

I mean, these people want if you have something that you're passionate about that's going right or wrong in the city, when you come and stand before this podium and you're recorded, you're standing up for your conviction and and you're sharing that with your elected officials on why you believe what you believe.

And they have that recording now, so that you know I did this.

When it comes to our inbox or goes to our voicemail, that who knows where it went.

They hope, they hope that they get a response from us.

They hope that we're doing our due diligence on the back end, and I'm sure you all of you do.

But again, it just goes to once that email is sent, once the phone calls done.

Well, great, I got one, but now I need to do seven more phone calls, right?

Because I'm trying to get these people, whereas their three minutes they can do it, and done.

I can go on.

So I do I I hear what you're saying.

Um obviously I'm one of five, so we're wherever you all uh you know will will feel directed.

I've just tried to see it from both sides, right?

What is still effective, what is still uh fair to both sides, right?

30 minute time frame, three minutes, no sharing, we're not gonna have 15 minutes to somebody fill in and scream at us and say whatever they want to say, they'll have three minutes to do it, and then they don't stop, gabble them next, right?

Max of ten people.

Uh I also would be hard pressed to think that every meeting you're gonna get 10 people.

If you're getting a multitude of people every meeting, not every meeting, I mean you're gonna get them because the agenda item is gonna be on there, so they're coming regardless, right?

So to think that throwing uh public comment on there, you're just gonna start filling up the list every time.

Maybe you will, maybe you won't.

But it's something that I believe just philosophically as a citizen, it's something that I would like to have.

And being in an elected official, that's what I'm going to fight for is those people's rights to be able to have it.

So thank you for listening to me.

I have a question for the city attorney.

If we um propose to move forward with those limitations and and allow it back in, can we do it as a trial period?

Uh sure.

Is that allowed?

You right.

I mean, you mean a trial period uh for whatever the rule is.

I think so.

I could I could draft something that essentially is a new council rule by resolution that has a fixed term.

Um I don't unless the clerk has a problem with that, I think that's fine, right?

So I could certainly draft something like that that has a fixed end date.

Um so I think that definitely is an option.

One thing I just as an aside, uh, and this is not to um complicate the decision at all, but just to observe that we're not alone in having these discussions.

This comes up at many other local governments, you know, not just throughout the state of Florida, but also throughout the United States.

So just FYI, City of Palm Bay right now is actually defending a lawsuit relating to uh public comment because they just passed a rule relating to kind of their version of local stakeholders.

Now that doesn't mean that they're wrong.

They may very well prevail in that lawsuit.

Uh so people get sued all the time for things that are completely frivolous, and lawsuits fail all the time, and governments successfully defend lawsuits all the time.

So you should not necessarily be shy about litigation.

My point is simply that these conversations that you guys are having right now are playing out.

And by the way, that was a split vote in Palm Bay just to adopt that rule to begin with.

Uh, and then um, you know, we'll see how it plays out in their litigation.

So I say that not to spook anyone, but met more to say that these are healthy discussions that I think are taking place throughout local governments everywhere, uh, and they're not always clear-cut issues.

Um that's why judges get paid to bake bucks sometimes.

So I can certainly say with confidence that uh to counter McCottin's point, a system that is completely neutral as to the identity of the speaker is 1,000 percent defensible.

And that's true regardless of whether it's a system in which you completely open it up to anybody, or it's a system like right now, where we don't open it up to anyone.

Either of those systems are completely viewpoint neutral.

When we do start picking and choosing the identity of speakers, it does introduce an element of something that sometimes a local government may have to defend later.

Up until fairly recently, the law was honestly super clear on this that cities and counties could um restrict public comment for non-agenda items to local stakeholders.

I mean, two years ago, I said absolutely law is 100% clear on that.

Today it's a little bit different, um, which is probably why Palm Bay is defending a lawsuit right now.

And so law changes over time.

Uh, and so something, and I know the mayor appreciates this, but something that was very clear two years ago sometimes is not as clear today.

And things that were not as clear two years ago sometimes are perfectly clear today.

So um I think the direction that the clerk and I will probably need from the from the council, if there if there is any direction, will be to um number one, I think I'm hearing consensus on 30 minutes as a time limitation as far as drafting for the rules.

Number two, to the vice mayor's point, if there is a proposal in regard to a trial period, this would be a good time to bring that up.

Number three, uh local stakeholders, if the council would like us to put that restriction in there, we can.

However, I think the clerk would probably have to speak to some of the administrative aspects and whether that would be workable for her from an from an administrative side.

I think we're all for that one.

Yeah, it's like we all want that.

Okay, um, and then so then the last part of it um is really the sequence, and do you want it to be toward the beginning or toward the end?

And again, that can be changed at any time.

Um, so I wouldn't sweat as much about that part of it.

Well, and we're good with three minutes, no time share.

Yeah.

I'd I'd like to start at the end.

So is it more palatable?

Yeah, just if we do a trial, it'd be more palatable for all of us.

It'd be yeah, that's fine.

Well, what is the what is the period going to be?

Three months.

Three months?

Is that fair?

I'm fine with that.

I mean, honestly, what do you think, Vice Mayor?

It was your your idea.

I would what are you comfortable with?

I think one of I I can speak for myself.

I think one of the things that really concerns me is if we change it back and we realize we made a mistake, we just oh, we're just going back and forth.

Having it on trial, it it suggests that we're actually testing it.

So it's if we see that it doesn't succeed when we go back, it's more palatable.

Um, I'm more comfortable if it's a trial.

If it's there's no trial, I'm just I'm not ready for that yet.

No, and I'm okay with that.

Are you good with three months?

Is that is that palatable or or what is your time frame, I guess, for this trial.

Three months is fine.

I don't know.

Okay, good.

Perfect.

Because that can be.

I've seen Mike wanting to say something.

Go ahead.

No, I don't the word trial is interesting to me because I feel like we already tried this.

You know, we're not trying something new other than we're putting some more restrictions on it.

We're if we're gonna make this decision, don't make it fueled by hope something changes.

Make it because you believe in your heart and in your mind that as a public servant you you owe this service to the citizen, and that outweighs any of the other stuff we've talked about.

But if you're making this decision just on hoping that something changes, I'm afraid that there's a pretty good chance that history is gonna show us we're gonna be in the same place again like we were a year ago, having a very similar discussion.

Um but I'm I'm I'm I'm I'll be I'm supporting if it goes in that direction, I'm supportive.

30 minutes makes sense.

I'll I'm glad you came in with a compromise, restricting and not sharing minutes.

That totally makes sense to me.

Front end, back end, you know, whatever.

But again, don't make the decision on hope something changes.

We've already tried this.

I wouldn't call it a trial.

Call the trial if you want, we tried this.

We period, then we can renew it.

We didn't feel good.

We went to the doctor and got a prescription.

The prescription we knew had side effects.

We took the medicine and it made us feel better.

We've seen it, there's no questions about it.

But now we're telling ourselves, well, I think we should just take ourselves off this medicine and see if I have those side effects again.

We got on the medicine because we needed to rectify something.

I think we're I'm we're gonna find ourselves in the same place again, unfortunately, but um I'll I'll support it if that's a decision.

It sounds like that we're unanimously going.

Oh can I respond?

Yeah, um, I you make a lot of sense in the sense that we've done this before, sort of like, because we have changed some of the parameters.

Um I and I'm very sensitive to repeating the same mistake, right?

However, there are changes, there has been a shift.

Some of those individuals that were disruptive have had negative consequences, and and we were part of those negative consequences.

So there has been enough change that I think um might change the out the outcome.

Um but I do keep getting pressure from a lot of my constituents saying put it back, put it back, put it back.

And so I'm I feel that this, I don't know you don't like the world trial, but let this time constrained thing would at least solidify either side.

If it happens again, then I feel okay.

Listen, even though these things have changed, the problem didn't go away.

Or hey, we did enough changes that there's a new there's a new uh end result.

But I do think there's enough changes that at least warrants we tried out a few more months for a few months.

Okay, I'm good.

Let's make a decision and let's move on.

We got other things to take care of, and if we're comfortable with do you need any more direction from this?

I'll just say what I wrote down.

Um so and anyone can correct me if I've misstated it.

So what I've written down is uh we'll bring a resolution back that will have a fixed duration of three months, and during that three-month time, the following rule will apply.

Uh, there will be a period for citizens to comment on items not on the agenda.

Any citizen can comment during that time, but will not be limited to let local stakeholders or regulated uh in that way.

It will be a 30-minute total time limitation.

Clerk will be able to keep track of uh the sequence of events in which that occurs.

Um, and that is the gist of it.

The only thing I wrote is an asterisk is whether to put it kind of toward the beginning or toward the end.

Or is there a preference?

The other thing I didn't return like that.

If if you come over to speak on agenda item, as I said, maybe the first time you've ever been in a council meeting.

You should not have to wait a half an hour through all whatever happens, people coming up with nothing on the agenda to say whatever they want.

So it's also a delay, you know, folks can now to make them wait potentially a half an hour before you know they get to their agenda.

That's why I would want it at the end if to start.

Yeah.

No, I'm good with that.

Can you help me understand what is the benefit of the point of adding a three-month period when if it's a complete disaster for a month and a half, we would sit here and have the same discussion and want to rectify it.

Why would we put ourselves through and put a time limit of when what is the benefit of that?

I mean, I the vice mayor raised that, so I'd certainly have to defer the okay.

I mean, that's a policy call for exactly.

Sounds like another council work session discussion.

So in my mind, what I'm trying to avoid is is a is consistent chaos.

I probably, you know, I do expect that those individuals will come back.

But will they come back just at the beginning just to kind of, you know, that first attempt, or is this going to be a consistent problem?

I'm thinking three months will be enough.

That will be, you know, six meetings.

You know, is it an isolated event?

Is it a consistent event?

That's what I'm looking for, a patent.

That's why I'm thinking three months.

I'm looking for a pattern of behavior that either I feel is acceptable or the constituents feel acceptable or not.

I'm I'm okay with it.

I just it didn't.

I mean, just if we're gonna institute it, institute it, and we know we have the ability and the power that if we get to a place where we're uncomfortable, someone puts it as an agenda item and we revisit it.

I don't know what the advantage of for us to pigeonhole us into a three-month time period if there's not really a benefit for it for either side.

So you want an open, we just you want to try it with no closed date, closing out date.

I mean, that's a direction we're going.

That makes more sense to me.

Is it easier or harder?

Council attorney is it easier already means to draft a fixed period versus it's neutral.

Yeah, it's not a problem either way.

Well, I I think I would if we can say just trial period, we uh you know it's a pilot program to see if we can put it back on.

I don't know if that helps us or not.

I don't know if that's still I will agree to the give us three.

That's why it's not a 90 day.

My whole point here was to try and just get it back on.

So it looks like we've uh uh agreed to certain terms.

I fully understand what you're saying here.

I agree we've got more on this agenda.

Pilot trial period.

Um I'm very appreciative for the discussion.

I'm very appreciative for the collaboration and moving forward on this, and I'm I'm 100% sure that our citizens and business owners, stakeholders there they will be too.

So thank you very much.

Is there anything else?

Sounds good.

I think the directions clear, I'll give it the clerk to make sure we're in alignment on that.

The only other comment I have on this is to Councilmember Alburn's point about um you know all the debate, right?

And that back and forth dialogue that we've seen over the years.

Um, that's something that we could also just add as a disclaimer on the agenda, and it's something the mayor can also consider saying uh prior to the public comments.

I too, you know, sat through the same same meetings and seen it several times because I think many times people reasonably expect in the public that this is actually a time for uh that two-way dialogue, and so this may actually be a good opportunity for us to set a little bit of that expectation so that we don't have that awkward pause when people start asking questions and wanting to have the debate and the discussion.

Um, so if there's consensus for that, I'm happy to put that as a disclaimer in there, and again, the mayor can start.

I can add a line and there's certainly add a line.

That's fine.

Makes sense.

Okay, anything more on that?

Uh thank you all.

I appreciate that.

No problem.

Okay, we'll move to item 16.2.

Uh before we get into 16.2, 16.3, I just want to um share with folks that um you know that um the whole idea of uh talking about an employment relationship is in a public setting is born to me.

Mentioned that uh when we did each year we need we do city attorney and city manager evaluations.

It's it's just uncommon.

I realize Florida law requires that for us to operate in the sunshine, but um the the next two items really are a little awkward, more than a little awkward for us because uh it is an employer-employee relationship that we're talking about.

So uh and we know we're going to be searching for another city attorney.

We certainly want to have this discussion in a way that um that folks who may be watching out there may be interested in uh applying to be the next city attorney or or really an employee of the city of Clearwater in general.

Um understand that we respect the um uh the confidentiality of the um uh you know where the the very personal relationship that goes with an employer employee relationship and uh and that we'll I'm sure we'll conduct our conversation here in that way because you know it again it's very awkward to talk about these these kind of issues um in a public setting, but we have to so that's what we're getting ready to get into.

So with that, um I just want to turn it over to 16.2 to Councilmember Menino for that item, which is discuss the city attorney's resignation.

Uh thank you, Mayor.

Uh I just I want to start out first by saying in the CRA meeting, there was some very nice and kind words said uh to the city attorney, and you deserve that.

Absolutely.

Um, and I believe all of us feel that same way.

And I'm glad that was said from that side of the dias, and not just this side.

So thank thank you for those kind words.

Uh also let me say that in sharing with my colleagues, I'm confident that we can facilitate this discussion, just as the mayor said, without transitioning into another evaluation.

Uh, I think we recently all did that, and all of us up here uh gave the city attorney extremely high praise uh in reviews, which deservingly so for transparency, you should all know that I already had this discussion uh respectfully at length uh with Mr.

Margolis in an effort to ensure he wasn't blindsided uh and that we allow him the opportunity to continue to participate uh in this transition plan, which is it's important to the city of Clearwater as we move forward and definitely important to the city attorney's office.

I would say that this isn't a discussion about questioning the professionalism or goodwill of the parting city attorney.

It's about making sure we as a dais and a leadership team protect the city's legal interests.

We maintain institutional authority, we assure accountability during a period of transition, and we protect the internal morale of your department that you worked hard for, and I know is important to you.

You've said that since day one, how important your team is to you.

So that's important in this discussion.

The city attorney's resignation letter that we all received was dated December 12th, and it respected its contractual obligations of 60 days.

There's no questions about that.

It identified what I believe is appropriate compensation and described a transition plan which mentions slight flexibility.

I believe our discussion today needs to clarify and solidify the transition plan while eliminating some of that slight flexibility, so we give clear, concise direction that a succession plan and a transition plan deserves, and not just for our friend, but for the city.

After this to kind of throw them in there and discuss them, but I think we should be able to find something in one of those.

I think in the first one, uh it basically accepts the letter of resignation as is based as as written.

Mr.

Margolis in his responsibility and only his responsibility is appoint an acting city attorney for a suggested dates of Wednesday, February 11th through Monday, April 13th.

At the request of Mr.

Margolis, we place the city attorney on a leave, a general leave for his requested dates of February 11th through April 13th.

I believe this direction and accepting what he wrote is showing good faith in this council and would ensure the continuity of his insurance coverage, which I think is seems to be important in a measure to ensure continuity of the city attorney's office, and as assistance is needed in going forward by council consensus.

I think we can appoint Mr.

Margolis to manage certain tasks and processes as needed during that period of leave.

We do know Clearwater has a lot of challenges.

We do know that after five years in office, you have had your hands in a lot of moving parts in protecting the city, this dais, and respectfully so.

I don't know if we need to sit here today and identify what those tasks may be.

Maybe it's as we move forward we can identify what those are, Gotham and whatever else that I know you've stated are important to you, and where you know your staff may need you.

I think that can be identified going forward.

And then as you you uh stated in your letter, establish Monday, April 13th as your final day of employment with the the city.

Um that's up that's option one, and that seems to be a pretty clear path, and that's what his resignation letter requested regarding a transition period or a plan.

Uh there is a more clear cut transition if desired by this dais, and if we felt it was in the best interest of our friend in the city.

The next two options would respectfully allow our friend the opportunity to begin the grieving process to remove him from the burdens and challenges that this city has, and they are not going away just because our city attorney uh is on general leave or replaces a title of acting city attorney on somebody else, they will continue to knock on the door, and they are not going away.

Uh we could accept his desired resignation date as a Tuesday, February 10th, 26th, respecting his 60 days, and establish that day as his last day of employment, which he has stated.

Uh, but what I think what we must understand is a dais uh is that would possibly that city attorney probably believes it definitely does.

I I haven't, we haven't, I haven't seeked outside counsel uh to know definitively, but that with Severus 7's clause in his contract, and there is a different form of compensation that would become due to him if we took that route.

Uh the other one is if we're sitting here in a place of of acceptable outcome is triggering a severance, and you are good with that, and you know council has the option of establishing a different date for his resignation uh during that period.

I I just think it's important before we go on in this discussion to reiterate that this issue before us is not related to performance intent or intent.

Uh it's strictly about governance risk, responsible succession planning, and ensuring a win-win situation for our beloved city that we're trying to ensure we protect, but also for our friend who's leaving.

So I think before we open up for with for a discussion, this is your last chance.

You should you want to leave?

Positive.

Um but I do think as these are uncomfortable conversations.

Secession planning and transition planning are important, and just to sometimes those issues are so much easier for both sides when you rip that band-aid of comfort off.

You you'd we're doing our friend a favor at some point by pulling those chains and burdens off of him, letting him rightfully grieve and process uh his life and the next steps in his journey, uh, as well as giving clarity uh to that city attorney's office that's needed.

Um so I'll leave it like that and kind of open up the floor, mayor, for some best discussion on objects.

We um appreciate that.

Appreciate everything you said.

Uh very well done.

Um I I think I I bring a little bit different perspective this because I've been part of law firms for 25 years where we had attorneys come and go, and um and city attorney and I discussed even this morning.

Um regardless of how we what we decide here, it it's it's gonna be complicated.

Um and it's going to take us a while, which is next agenda to get in another city attorney.

Hopefully, we'll get on it, and that's what I want to talk about next, and we'll get the process going soon and get that going.

But um I I it is hard to transition all these files that the city attorney has been leading on cases uh in 30 days or whatever we're getting ready to do.

Uh, there's going to be a need for our legal department to reach out to him.

Um certainly his life would probably be better if he would walk away on February 11th and not have anything any more communication or be held it as you said.

Uh he could turn the page and start over.

But I don't think he would do that uh because he loves his department, he loves the people that work in our legal department, and certainly wouldn't leave them hanging.

But um, but it would be nice, I think, for our team to have him available, even if while he was on leave to answer questions, do those things, and two, that he does have a contract that it would trigger some things that we would have to think about in his contract if we changed what he's proposed.

So I I don't think uh he and I talked today.

I don't think it's probably easy any way you do it, but my perspective is I think the way he's proposed is probably the easiest uh on our team and the easiest for our city to be available to weigh in on some of these things that he's been leading on, and uh and we are still in the in the throes of addressing it.

Uh hopefully we'll get the city attorney in quickly before even his leave is over, that that may not happen.

So we may have to appoint somebody interim at some time to serve until and we may have to engage outside counsel.

But I've I personally think what he's proposed is probably the best thing for the citizens of the city.

Anyone else?

So you're proposing just to accept the resignation letter as is that he would basically on February, I don't know, 10th or 11th, I don't know what it is.

That would be his last day, but he would be available through April 13th for questions or any on any legal issues that is needed.

So what happens after February 11th, to I mean that's I know we have other attorneys in the office, would they just uh would we be appointing an interim attorney at that point?

Or I mean if Dave's not here, what his proposal is to appoint he would appoint um Owen acting acting, yes.

It's a different process for us to appoint an interim.

An acting attorney, that's what I meant, an acting attorney.

If we ended it on February 11th, then we would need to appoint an interim on February 11th to take his place.

Okay, but if uh Mr.

Margalis leaves on February 11th, let's say, then it would I guess it would uh severance would come into play and we'd pay him as severance at that point.

And then I mean, would that be it would he still be available at that point if any questions I mean come up, or we just don't ever ask anything.

Well that would be that would be up to him.

Yeah.

Sure.

I mean, uh, I mean, I'm not going anywhere physically.

Um I'm actually renovating my house and doing other things uh that are enjoyable for once.

Uh so uh I don't plan on um like I don't think that will be a problem.

I mean, I as you know the mayor said and as counselor said, um, I care about my staff and my team as well as the city.

So no matter what direction the council decides, and whatever you think is the best way forward, uh, I'm definitely gonna be available for questions.

I think the harder aspect of it is beyond providing just background information, because we do have several complicated things uh in progress right now.

Uh, it will be important, I think, to specify if we do it the way that I've put forward in the letter, what exactly that role is going to be between mid-February and mid-April.

And I do agree with council member Manino on this point, and he and I did talk about this.

Uh that's something I think is gonna be important for the city as well as our external stakeholders.

I mean, I know it's not obvious on camera, but we literally have you know, Katie Christian from Duke Energy having joined us today.

Welcome, Katie.

And so I'm sure that Katie is not just sitting here because you know, she loves all of us, but I'm sure is literally here because she wants to see what this is going to look like and how it may affect those conversations with Duke, as an example.

And so there are several things like that that will need to be addressed.

So, Councilmember Alburn's point, regardless of how you guys decide, whatever you think is best, um, I will definitely be available for you know, staff to answer questions and things of that nature.

But it as it relates to substantive legal work, whether it's meeting with external stakeholders, drafting documents, reviewing documents, any sort of substantive legal work, um, it would I would not do that uh unless I'm on payroll, not just for my own you know, financial reasons, but also from an attorney client standpoint, uh the city will no longer be a current client, uh, and so it would not be beneficial to the city to have me do that if I'm no longer uh on payroll.

Um so that's hopefully that answers kind of that question.

And then to the mayor's point about the acting city attorney versus the interim.

Under the city charter, uh both the city manager and I can designate acting officials when we are out of the office for whatever reason, you know, we're maybe we have surgery, maybe we have vacation, whatever it is.

That is something that she and I can do administratively.

Uh, and so that's what I've put in my letter because it's the only thing I can do administratively.

I don't have the power administratively to appoint an interim city attorney.

That power is only your power to make.

The other restriction on the acting city attorney is that I can only appoint one for a maximum of 60 days.

So that's why the time period goes from February 10th or whatever until middle of April or April 13th, right?

Because February is a short month.

So I counted out 60 days and said, okay, that's the longest time window I could potentially offer the city, and then finally, because the acting city attorney can serve only when there still is a city attorney, it has to overlap my period of employment.

And so to the mayor's point, if my employment ends on February 9th, you guys will have both the right as well as the responsibility to appoint an interim city attorney.

Now that could be the same person I was going to appoint, or it could be somebody different.

Um but uh but as long as I am still employed, you cannot appoint an interim city attorney because you have a city attorney.

And so that's something you guys kind of need to grapple with and decide whatever the best path is forward.

So hope that helps.

You know, as a fellow lawyer, he's um if his last day were February 11th, uh he he'd have to be careful on anything he might share with us that could be considered legal advice because at that point he's not uh he's not an attorney employed by us, so you know there's you know, does he get malpraxis insurance?

So you know, there's you know, does he get malpraxis insurance?

You know, some folks who would have an attorney leave the firm, they would, you know, maybe hire them back as an independent contractor or do something to get that input and to again to not put pressure on our legal department, which is already down a litigator.

Um, and now we've got to engage outside council to fill the gap that we could have had the benefit of having city attorney Mark Owens continue on, even though he was in late on leave to uh to help us through this transition.

Um I want to hear anybody you want me to go next.

Is that what I'm saying?

I want to hear what everybody's saying.

Glad it wasn't full.

Uh yeah, I'll be three hours ago.

Anyways, thank you.

Uh appreciate it.

Um, Councilmember Manino, uh you gave us the three options.

Uh the one option is to uh keep what the city attorney has proposed as is.

Option two, accept the resignation February 10th as his last day employment, which would kick in his severance.

Um option three, establish a different uh date entirely.

Is that correct?

Correct.

Okay.

Um Mr.

Margolis, maybe you'll be able to answer this.

If not, Tiffany, I would appreciate you to be able to answer this.

Uh what is the the severance clause should option two take effect come February 11th?

What are you entitled to?

Well, I definitely want to be careful in how I answer that.

I mean, Tiffany can give an answer.

I mean, I'll give an answer to the employee now.

I mean, I only that's why I pointed out Tiffany because she's in here.

If it's more comfortable for Tiffany to answer that, then I am all for that as well.

I can I can give an answer, but I would I have to handle it a little bit differently for Florida Bar purposes.

So I'd certainly prefer that.

Good afternoon, Tiffany Macris, HR director.

Um, so my understanding of the severance that would be triggered would be 20 weeks of um, and this would be a lump sum payment at the time of separation.

So 20 20 weeks um of cash payment equal to 20 weeks of salary, as well as all accumulated and unused general leave.

And so I did some very quick math and have a very tentative number.

I mean, like, but um what that would look like would be somewhere in the neighborhood of the 175,000 um 75?

Yes.

So, real quick, that would be um 20 weeks lump sum payment of his leave as well as 20 weeks of salary.

No, sorry, 20 weeks of salary, okay, lump sum, and then any unused leave.

So by my math, and I apologize, I'm over here quickly crunching numbers, so I'm gonna leave it ish behind each number.

Uh roughly 456 hours of leave in addition to 20 weeks of salary.

Okay.

I mean, I think that this is tough as thank you very much, Tiffany.

I appreciate I know, David, we've had these discussions very candidly about uh your decision to do what you have.

I think there's very personal reasons behind that, and it's no place for me to share any of that.

Um you know how I feel about you intellectually and legally.

I think that you've got a brilliant mind and articulate things in such a manner that are just extraordinary.

Um I think that you've done a great job in developing your stuff.

You know, this is hard because I understand what the mayor's saying of a leader uh resigns and the date is gone, and you'd like to retain him for the questions that will come.

When I look at you and the team that you've formulated, I think that you've already set a team forward that might have little questions, but they'll probably do just fine, which I think is a compliment to you.

Um I've diligently been just trying to take notes over what's going on because even though seeing this on the agenda item, I didn't really know what to expect.

And I'm also trying to, you know, keep our conversations what they were, right?

Um because they were very candid, open and honest.

Um I think that you are doing a great job.

Um I think that whatever comes next, you're probably gonna kill it.

Um it's tough going not going last because I don't know what council member to Shada or Vice Mayor Tosheda has to say.

So I mean, trying to connect the dots on what we're trying to accomplish here, if that's keeping as is, or if that is uh accepting your resignation on February 10th and roughly paying you up a 200,000 dollars.

Um I will say this that we should have started yesterday in trying to start the headhunting process of finding his replacement, right?

Keeping uh national search as well as in-house applicants who may want to do the job.

Again, going to your team and what you've developed.

I mean, we might have a great in-house attorney that would fill that role perfectly.

You know, you've held such a good standard that uh, you know, kind of like Richard Branson said, train people well enough uh that they can leave and treat them well enough to where they'll stay.

And I think that you've you've navigated that extremely well.

You've uh been there to encourage your staff to better themselves to where they could go somewhere else.

I mean, board certified attorneys, I'm sure you could give me the number of board certified attorneys that are within the state, probably a rough estimate off the top of your head how many there are.

There's not many, so it's a great 300, perfect.

So it's a great accomplishment.

And to say that we have more than one board certified attorney within your wheelhouse is incredible.

So I'm I'm gonna end my comments with that.

I don't know if if that helps with what you're going to say, but I appreciate the conversation.

Uh seeing where we go with this uh will be interesting, Tiffany.

Thank you for the information.

And uh I'm gonna turn my mic off.

So uh, you know, the Sunshine Law really has a negative impact on on the law.

Um you know, I appreciate hearing from my counterparts, especially on a topic that I really don't didn't know where it was going.

It was just an open, you know, we're gonna be talking about this.

So I try to like in my mind figure out what are we gonna talk about and even what do I feel about it?

I understand that there might be an uncomfortable position uh period of two months where there's two chefs in the kitchen, and so that might be confusing.

I acknowledge that and I understand that.

Um but the severance pays, no joke.

I mean, we've we've had arguments for $15,000 for e-bikes.

So I guess the question is how much him how how is important is it to this council for him to leave early?

Is it enough for the 170,000?

Um, because again, just thinking, trying to figure out where the direction was.

I was really focused on that two-month confusing period, and how to simplify it for everyone.

Um, and so I was thinking to divide very objectively what the interim or slash acting attorney would be responsible for versus the outgoing.

So, for example, the acting city attorney would be all new matters, policy interpretation, council advice and one-on-ones, and final legal uh opinions, and then the outgoing would be historical background, status updates on existing matters, knowledge transfer only, and only if needed, and added cases up of you know, according to the council, meaning just let's say everything I just said, plus Gotham, let's say.

So during this transition period, legal services would continue to be provided through the city city attorney's office to ensure consistency and continuity.

The acting city attorney will serve as a primary point of contact for all legal matters, including advice to council.

The outgoing city attorney will remain available in an advisory capacity to assist with background information and knowledge transfer on existing matters as requested.

Um it's already been mentioned on the dice, we are already down one person, it doesn't look like we're getting them anytime soon, and we also have the office manager out on leave.

These are the things I'm thinking about, but I've just been hearing what you're saying now, so like I'm trying to process it.

Um, but this is where I came in, but I'm not set on it.

Just I wanted to hear what you guys had to say.

Thank you.

Um good discussions.

Obviously, we're all tiptoeing around because it is uncomfortable, and uh it is the first time the six-week break uh was tough.

Um, and if we were to have been together sooner, the process would have definitely started.

I think to the defense of the city that the process did start.

I know you know David's worked with that thought since the 12th when he wrote the letter on what the succession plan was, and I know staff did the same thing on thoughts.

I mean, the question right away is do we have the talent in-house?

If we do, do they want the job?

Um, and once we answer both of those, then it's okay.

If we have it in-house and if they want the job, do you still need or do you still do the executive search and and do both?

Um I think that number, 175,000 is a little fictitious.

Uh, and I and I'm not questioning it.

I only say that because I I believe even if we didn't trigger his severance, he's still getting accumulated in general leave built into that.

Is that correct?

No, it's addition.

Yes, he would.

And and I just I also want to correct myself from before where I was speaking to the severance, and I should have caveated that with a if if it's triggered.

I don't know for a fact that it would be.

But if it were to do the math, is what I provided.

Gotcha.

And do we have a that number split, like what 20 weeks is?

Because that's a that's effectively what the discussion is about.

If it triggers severance, he's collecting the 20.

Because either way, whether we trigger it or we don't, he's getting the other number accumulated in general leave.

He's getting that regardless.

It would only be the one.

It would only be the 20-week lump sum.

So is that what 100,000, 108,000?

111, roughly.

111,000.

Gotcha.

And and then depending on the general leave between you know what's used or what isn't, that that's a flexible number.

I mean, obviously, we're talking of a short period of time depending on what happens.

So um there's a little flexibility in that, but as it stands today, if no leave were taken with the amount that's been accumulated, which is 456 hours, that total that I'm coming up with is 60 is the equivalent cash equivalent of 63,700.

Thank thank you for clarifying that.

That's kind of what I was gonna.

Um uncomfortable, but um a good discussion.

Okay, so my thoughts and the private sector have been through this a handful of times that it sucks for both sides.

You try to navigate it to find how can we find a win-win for both sides?

We definitely want to win for our friend.

We know that.

We're not we're trying to take anything from David, and we definitely need to protect and find a win for the city.

Um, and the win is should not just be looked at as financial.

Um I think that if we said if if we said David, you're amazing, we're gonna accept your resignation as of whatever that date, Wednesday, February 11th.

We agree to trigger a seventh severance and let him go on his way.

He's not gonna sit up here and argue that.

No, that's for him.

That is yes, that's definitely a win for him.

And I know how ethical and morally is he's gonna and he's never once asked for that nor suggested that, uh, which meant 90% of the people probably would, because you would definitely financially uh make out better.

It having those uncomfortable, sticky situations of overlap of a safety net, of when new what if new things come in to the city manager's office.

Do we go to him with it?

Does it go to the acting that stickiness of relationships?

It it does not help morale, it doesn't help internal leadership, it doesn't help the direction of the city.

For me, it's always uncomfortable, but when you find a way to win and win, rip the band-aid off, let both sides go on their way.

If nobody else wants that is comfortable stating what their thoughts are, mayor.

I know you're you know, kind of option option A.

I'm okay if we go that route.

I think for me is let's just accept his resignation as of February 11th.

Let's pay him his 20-week lump sum, and let's let him go on and and grieve as he should and and process uh what's happened in his life, and let's let our city our city attorney's office um move forward.

And I I agree with what the gentleman said next to me is David has built a strong team.

I have a lot of faith in his team, as does he, as does I believe the city manager's office and city leadership.

Um I I don't think I have any questions that they can't pick up the ball and run with it.

I mean, who he's discussed about establishing as an acting city attorney was here for a long time under Pam, who he then served five years under David.

I have more than enough faith um that the office can handle it.

And if we did find a way and you did um agree and and pay David his severance and let both sides go on, I think David would have 111,000 reasons on why to pick up the phone if we called with an issue, or why to pick up the phone to help a friend in his office that he has his hands on these tasks all day.

He's not gonna say I'm not there anymore.

He's got plenty of reason to help.

Um so if that helps in the discussion, I hope it doesn't confuse it more.

Uh, but that's kind of that's kind of my thoughts is to just let both sides move forward.

Well I'd I'll just say um on the acting.

If he names on acting, oh we go to Owen.

Owen's the acting city attorney.

I don't know where the confusion would come in.

Yeah, he does.

I've seen it all day long.

He's the acting, but what but once he's on leave, uh Owen's the one folks.

Well, I get that, and by title, that sounds great, but it it doesn't, it never works that way.

There's people that will pick up the phone, and and he would probably admit this.

They will call David.

He has the most knowledge, he's had his hand on it.

They would be most comfortable.

David, what happened what happened with this?

Did you have this phone call last?

Is this he's he's gonna be contacted, and that there's no way around that, and you can't stop people from the city or businesses or legal or other law firms to contact them because that's who they believe is in charge.

But you know, uh, and I don't know if you would argue that or even want to participate in this, and I don't want to put you on the spot, but I I get what you're saying.

Um, I just think that both sides moving forward is a win win for both.

Uh it gives clear, concise clarity and direction to our city's attorney's office that needs it, they're more than capable.

Let's move forward, and we're doing our friend um a solid.

Okay, so I've given us some thought over the past few weeks.

Um, and I appreciate uh Mike you giving the different options.

I think my I wish David well, okay.

I uh I'm more up to option three, pull the band-aid off, have you leave on February the 11th, and uh send you off with a uh severance and your days owed and get I mean that gives you a chance right away to start looking around, putting your name in for another job, which I think you'll get offers for.

Listen, I was here before Dave was here, and Owen was our interim attorney then, and he did a fine job.

Um so we're in capable hands, it's not like we're gonna be flounding around.

Um but I think that that's the I just think uh it gives you an opportunity to get on with your life.

It gives us an opportunity to get on with ours.

Owen can take over and we can still process the things that are going on, and I think it's it's just cleaner that way instead of having uh they've like in and out from February through April 13th.

Go ahead and just uh you know, get on with the next stage of your life.

So that's gonna be my proposal.

Icemar, do you have something else?

I I think both of you make a good uh point.

Mike, I just want to clarify something.

Was that option two or three?

We can call it whatever you want.

Um I certainly do not want to be the person if you're still gonna give him an early zero severance, you know.

Um I would I'm willing, I'm very flexible on this because I see both sides.

I I guess this whole day is about that.

Um if the council is comfortable and has a big concern about um as you call it pulling the the the band-aid and and minimizing discomfort or that you know making the transition period better.

Do you think that the pulling the bandid is better than actually having him as um you know on the back on the back end of being an advisor?

I'm okay with it.

I would go with that.

I was I'm just honestly surprised that um I am very surprised that the council is okay with the severance.

That's all I that's the thing that shocked me the most.

That's where we've got to.

Yeah, thank you, sir.

Um I mean, it is a shocking number right up front to the severance pay.

I think Councilmember Manino articulated it appropriately, though, that you know it's it's either the upfront 175,000-ish, roughly.

We don't know the exact number, but it's in the ballpark.

Um, or it's just that over time.

Either way, um city attorney would be getting, right?

So it's just are we doing it on the front end or the back end?

Um this is tough because having the conversations again, trying to keep what was private private.

Um I know that he's struggled with it, and he has been a big asset to all of us.

The city, each one of us personally.

Um he's been clutch.

He really has been, or is he still here?

He hasn't got anyways, just to my left.

Um so and I know him, right?

So when you talk to him, or when I have talked to him, and I will say this, it's it's he wants to protect taxpayers just as I always harp on, right?

And and do the job to the end of the day, and I respect that so much.

I really do.

Um coming from the business side of things, though, I totally see it.

If a person is going to resign, you separate, and everybody goes on their separate ways.

There's no hard feelings about it, it just is what it is.

And if that is the decision of which way we go, compensation is entitled to it.

That's why we agreed to take on a contract that we did, right?

Uh well, not us necessarily, but our predecessors.

So I mean, I'm do you want to say anything, David?

I'm not trying to just, you know, reign on the parade.

I I see the both sides of all this.

I know that I think each of us have said that if you have something that you'd like to say, you're more than welcome to.

You do not feel pressured to, right?

I mean, obviously for some, this is uncomfortable.

I think it's just a healthy conversation to be having.

I've always been upfront and honest with you, you know, where all that stuff uh comes from.

So there's no I think surprise from what I'm saying to you at all, and I'm not trying to throw you uh on the hot seat, but it is your life.

Yeah, and and uh appreciate the all that and really my perspective, you know, I'm not fighting for David.

I'm I'm really trying to think about the city.

And it's I'll acknowledge that president's been very upfront on some very controversial issues that uh I would like to have the city and the citizens continue to have his engagement in.

So even if he's on leave, he's still uh our city attorney, you know, for a little bit extra time.

We're going to pay him one way or the other, which has been made made at point.

I just think it gives us an opportunity to give the citizens some benefit more so than just paying the check, whatever.

But uh to David's point, and we'll let him speak now.

But I'm not doing this to lobby for David advocate for David.

David's capable of doing that.

I'm just trying to find um uh transition that works best for the city and the citizens in light of at least two or more very controversial issues that he's been leading on.

So, David, Neiling, you want to share.

Well, other than that, Mrs.

Lincoln, how was the play?

Uh so uh I I just need to um I need to be careful.

So for me, the only awkwardness I I've lived my entire life in the sunshine, public service, um, so this is part of what we sign up for, so I don't have any objection to all of that.

Uh however, as a member of the bar, I have to be very careful about my ethical obligations.

I know Katie Christian, of course, will also appreciate this, uh, even though she does not quite have to deal with it on my role.

Nevertheless, as a member of the bar, she knows exactly what I have to deal with when we represent organizational clients.

Uh so I think this is actually in some ways a good opportunity to show the nobility of the legal profession, which sometimes is not, you know, does not get perceived that way.

Um the Florida bar has very extensive rules relating to conflicts of interest.

This is not the first time in history this has ever come up.

In fact, it literally comes up in private practice, you know, all the time.

Uh, and so the bar tells us as lawyers how we have to handle potential conflicts.

Sometimes the bar leaves it subjective, probably a little bit more subjective than I would like.

Uh, but the rules are extensively worded, you know, shall we say.

Uh there is a concept in the Florida bar rules uh called uh informed consent, and it is part of the rules relating to conflicts of interest.

The eps the expectation of the bar that is on me in a situation like this is as follows.

First of all, I know it may sound obvious, but I have to disclose to each of you as my client that I have a personal interest in this.

I know that's all obvious because it's my life, you know, as was stated here, uh, but the bar expects me to actually say that.

Like this is my life.

And so because it is my life, I am not able to sit in the neutral, impartial way that you would typically expect of your city attorney.

Now I can answer questions and I can converse, but I cannot sit as your neutral legal advisor in a situation like this.

So when I answer a question or if I'm sharing my thoughts, please know that all I can do ethically is speak as your employee and not to give you impartial legal advice.

I think that's the kind of the first part of it.

Um the second part of it is that the bar requires me, not just me, David, but me as in lawyers.

When there are conflicts of interest like this, and a lawyer's personal interest can be involved, I am required to advise the client of alternative options.

And especially as it relates to seeking legal representation and legal advice.

Under our city charter in Clearwater, the city council has always had the right to seek independent legal counsel that has no relationship at all to the city attorney's office, no relationship at all to the city manager's office.

I don't know if that provision was written explicitly for this, but probably something not far from it.

I imagine the founders of our city imagined that there would be situations where the city attorney has a conflict for one reason or another, and so that option has always been enshrined in the charter where the city council as a body has the right to hire a law firm that has nothing to do with me, nothing to do with my team, uh, and you guys set the compensation for that.

Now, I you certainly don't have to do that, and I'm not aware of any past in which the city has.

But if there ever was a situation, this could be it where you might choose to do that.

Uh, and so I am required to make that option available to you, and it's not I'm not trying to complicate your discussion, but ethically, like I have to at least make sure you're aware of that option.

And so if the result today is to say, you know, um, we just want some time to consult with outside counsel, we want to have a different law firm come in and take a look at it.

I want each of you to know that is totally appropriate.

That is what I'm supposed to say as a member of the bar, and it's something that's available to you under the city charter.

Um, you don't have to do that, but you absolutely have the right and have the option to do that.

There's nothing wrong with it, and you should not hesitate to do that if you have any sort of legal concerns, legal questions, etc.

Again, because I cannot serve uh as the legal advisor for the city in this situation.

So that is the uh professional disclaimer.

Um does that make sense to everyone because I absolutely know the uh mayor, obviously being a member of the bar, um, but I have to say that.

You're correct.

Uh well, I I I know each of you, you know, so well personally, um, but still I want to make sure that I'm fulfilling my ethical obligations.

Um, you know, as Councilmember Manino said, as Councilmember Cotton have said, um, I don't, you know, advocate typically for myself.

There's no reason to do that, and there's typically no conflict um when it comes to my personal involvement and that of the city.

Okay.

So, with that um being said, so I mean, there's a few different options um being discussed here.

Um, I don't I don't really have a lot of comment on it, other than just to say that there's no perfect way to do a transition.

Okay.

This is a good healthy conversation among the council because there are pros and cons both ways.

Um, what I can say with confidence is that if the city uh elects for me either to update my resignation or otherwise to make it effective February 9th, February 10th, whatever it is, and if the city determines that I should be and will be paid uh separation as part of that, then yes, of course I would be available.

Um I will be anyway.

Um, but yes, I think it was Mr.

Bernino said what I have 11,000 reasons.

Um so yes, I mean I have a personal interest in that that goes even above and beyond how much I care about the city, how much I care about my own staff, etc.

So I I don't want the council to worry about that either way.

The truth is you guys could fire me tomorrow, and I would absolutely do the same thing because I have a team that needs to be supported, and I have people who may have questions about the you know about things that I worked on.

So I please don't let that tie your hands because I will be available no matter what.

Again, I'm not going anywhere uh in that regard.

I think the big question for you guys is going to be what is the value in solidifying um that transition plan.

Um how does that add, you know, and what does it add for the city?

And there's value in that, there are benefits to that.

There is also a cost that could go along with that.

And so only the council can make that decision.

Um I am not ever going to ask for anything that benefits me.

Um it's just not first of all in my nature, and then second, I don't think it's ethical.

I mean, mayor and I were talking about this a little bit before the meeting.

As lawyers, we're trained to put our client first, you know.

So when I submit my notice of resignation, it's designed to put me last in the process.

If the council decides that they want to do me a solid, right, and the council decides as my client, hey, you know, David, we really want to help you personally, that's a client decision.

Um, but I would never ever ask for that and would never expect that from any of you.

Like what I expect is the way that I have put it forward uh to the city.

If you guys choose to do something different that is more beneficial to me and is more helpful so that I can begin some of that briefing and some of that other process, that is your call, but none of you should feel like that's an expectation.

None of you should feel like that's an ask, and none of you should feel like you have to make that decision one way or the other because you absolutely have the right to have outside counsel take a look at it.

So that those of you like comments that I'll make on it.

Um I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Um, and as is stated in our one-on-ones, you know, I I fully believe that, right?

That's what leaders do, we lead, and you're not gonna let your team just uh go to voicemail every time or not answer the text.

I don't see that in your character, and I would never expect it.

Um is February 10th the date that you currently have.

It is the I believe for resignation before the 60 days.

I believe the way I've drafted it said that February 9th is my contemplated as my final day before appointing Owen as the acting city attorney.

And so the idea behind the kind of the idea behind the dates is first wanting to make sure I honor both the letter and the spirit of my own contract, right?

So my contract requires me to give at least two months' notice to the council prior to resigning.

And so when I made that decision, the first thing I had to do was look back at my contract and say, well, what does the city expect of me contractually?

Number one.

Number two, I have to admit I did very briefly, very briefly toy with the idea in my head of saying, well, could I actually resign right away and use but use leave?

I'm sorry, but use leave during that initial 60 day period because I have the leave, as Tiffany pointed out, to do that.

I admit I did consider that very privately, very briefly, um, because you guys know personally kind of what I'm going through right now, and I did from a familial perspective have an immediate consideration of that.

But ultimately, to Councilmember Cotton's point, at the end of the day, I have a job to do.

Um, I mean, we're a busy city, we have a lot going on, and so I made that immediate decision that I would make sure that I'm honoring not just the letter of the contract, but also the spirit of the contract as well.

And so I made so to your point.

I wanted to make sure that I'm working full-time during those two months, and that no matter what happens, and no matter what the transition looks like, uh, that there is not going to be anything that would uh affect either my staff or hurt the city during that two-month period.

Afterward, it's really a question of you know, for you guys, you know, what do you want to see?

Um, what I've put on paper is what I think is least favorable to me, uh, because again, that's what lawyers are supposed to do.

Um, I'm totally comfortable with it.

I have no problem going through with that being the plan.

Um, if council wants to do something different, that's completely council's prerogative.

But I'm comfortable with what I have put on paper.

Again, if council wants to help me, you know, by doing me you know a favor, which is really all that would be, uh, then you have the right to do that, but not in any way something I'm asking for, expecting, and again, you could solve without outside counsel if you have any sort of questions about that.

Sorry for the long disclaimer, but again, I think ethically it's important for me to do that.

No, I sincerely appreciate it.

Next question.

If it is the uh council's prerogative to accept your uh resignation February 9th, would we with that motion also have to include the appointment of an interim city attorney with that same decision or it does not have to be part of that same decision, however, it is something you will have to consider.

So if there is a vacancy in the office of city attorney, uh you are supposed to appoint an interim city attorney certainly as promptly as you can.

And so if the council arrives at that decision, what I would suggest then is putting that on the next agenda as soon as you can, so that you guys can decide if there is an interim city attorney you're comfortable with, and is it Owen or is it somebody else?

But is there an interim city attorney you're comfortable with so that you can make that appointment in advance?

Part of my fear, a big part of my fear in submitting my resignation notice was having a situation where the city is deprived of a city attorney for a period of a month or two.

Administratively, all I can do is appoint an acting city attorney.

Again, I can't appoint an interim city attorney.

I don't have the power to do that, let alone while I'm employed.

So I've I have at least tentatively said that I will appoint Owen as the acting city attorney, because that's all that I can do to make sure the council has someone in the seat who is present who is full time.

If council decides to do it a different way and decides to accept my resignation as of the 9th, etc.

Pay me out however you decide to do it, at that point uh you will have a vacancy as of February 10th, unless you've made an appointment prior to that.

So you just have to think about the timing of that, and are you comfortable making that appointment that will take effect February 10th?

Does that make sense?

Well, so that's my question.

If someone were to make a motion to accept your resignation immediate February 9th, and in that same motion, say, well, also starting February 10th, appointing um Owen as interim city attorney, could that go within the same motion?

It can definitely go within the same motion.

The only caveats I would offer are this.

Number one, um and the manager and I have talked about this a little bit.

When you appoint an interim city attorney, you may want to consider entering into an employment contract with that person.

You don't have to.

That's not a requirement of law.

Um, it doesn't have to be that way.

I honestly do not remember not to put Jennifer on the spot, but when you became interim city manager, I don't remember us doing that with you.

Uh but correct me if I misstating it.

I think we did.

I don't think so.

I don't recall.

Oh, I yeah, I'm asking our HR director if she will do a quick search to see.

I think it was after the it was after the fact.

Um that was my recollection.

That was my recollection as well.

So the answer is I think yes, you can do that.

Um, you may want to consider whether it's upfront or after the fact of council Albert's point, but whenever you decide to do this, heck, even if we go with the original plan, and it's as of April, you know, 13th or April 14th.

At some point, you're gonna have to not have to, but at some point I would encourage you to do the same thing because that way it'll sit your expectations with your interim city attorney, and frankly, it'll give an impramater of support to external stakeholders.

As you guys know, you know, the manager and I are constantly meeting with for negotiations for external partners, etc.

And I do see some value, whether it's now or whether it's mid-April, whenever, but I see value in the formality of the council executing a contract with the interim city attorney, and I think that will send a good message to external stakeholders that you have confidence in whoever that person is.

Just my opinion.

But again, that's you can do that whenever your time is.

If we're gonna go that route, that's what I'll do.

I think we'll no, I appreciate it.

I just wanted to get the ducks in a row, so it was on the record.

Yeah, yeah, that's my point.

And I don't think anybody disagrees with the suggestions letter to appoint Owen.

Or interim either one.

I think do we all agree on that?

I agree on that.

Agenda item next.

We'll discuss that.

I do have I do have a question there if you don't mind.

Um does this direction that you're needing right now just need to be a majority or supermajority?

Because I feel like 25 minutes ago we probably already had a majority in a discussion with this, but we're continuing it.

Am I in this statement?

You can't vote now.

No, no, no, but uh we were given direction, and it's already voted on Thursday.

So I think I like so glad that came up.

So a couple couple aspects this.

So as far as supermajority versus majority, uh, the appointment of an interim city attorney or permanent city attorney will require supermajority.

So, and it that will have to be voted formally for sure.

Um, that's true for city manager as well.

So that is a supermajority appointment that will have to be done by some level of formality by motion to answer that question.

Uh as to me, a little bit more complicated question because it depends on how exactly council wants to do it, particularly given that I have already submitted a notice of upcoming.

Particularly given that I have already submitted a notice of upcoming intent.

If the direction to me or ask of me call it whatever you want request of me is to update my resignation notice to make it effective February 9th, I think that is an ask or direction you guys can give informally just like you do to staff or anything else and I would just take that now if I heard clear direction to do that.

But that's number one is that in fact the ask of the majority of counsel number two if so is that is that how you want me to do it.

And then number three I do think and not to speak for the manager but I do think that the manager is going to need at least some kind of direction from counsel I would if I was her as to uh what kind of comp is paid as part of this if any and so I want to emphasize again to you you have the right to seek independent counsel on these questions involving interpretation of my agreement.

So while you certainly have the right to say yes we want to do David a solid we're not gonna you know we don't have to mess with that that's totally your right but it is not your obligation and so you have the right to ask me or tell me to go ahead and make my resignation effective February 9th and then if you choose to to defer the rest of it hire outside counsel to review it if that's your choice again don't want to speak for the manager but as to what she would need administratively to actually authorize payment is something that I would defer to her on.

Yeah I mean my thinking and going that direction the last thing I think I would I'm interested in doing is to say February 9th Monday official and start a fight over whether it triggers severance or not and I think I I heard was I'm not sure if and I think that's I don't know if I would be comfortable in going that route because if we're trying to find a win for David and win for the city I don't see how we're trying to peel off a band aid we're trying to draw a hard line in the sand and let both go I don't see we're getting into litigation over does it trigger does it not now we're hiring outside attorneys to help us litigate against you that's against the entire spirit of the discussion we're trying to have so I I would hope that as a dais if the direction we were going was February 9th Monday official day and saying we are making that decision expecting it to trigger a severance I would be comfortable going in that direction but if I'm not comfortable in saying I'm unsure if it does let's hire outside counsel to look into it and maybe create some legal war for the next three months if that's against the spirit of it's um so I appreciate hearing everyone it certainly um I learned a lot and I was shocked a bit but that's great.

It's good that um we have this discussion but I'm very comfortable with moving ahead with February 9th and just go ahead and give the difference after what I've heard today.

I'm very comfortable with option two.

Same I will say that I am comfortable with option two and I think that you deserve the the payout and you've done the city a tremendous amount of work and I thank you for that I know that my short tenure with you I have thoroughly enjoyed it and I think that you deserve it.

So I appreciate you that's that's very kind but again I would still have a deferred manager as to the administrative not just as the specific but also as to the process and and to be clear so that so Jennifer doesn't have to be the you know bad guy in this it would be completely appropriate if the manager says that that should be done by motion in which case it would be on Thursday.

I'll defer to her on that administratively but I just want her to hear me say publicly and the counsel hear me say publicly I would fully support her if she says that that needs to be done by motion.

I'm I'm comfortable because of the amount of conversation and the documentation surrounding the public record of this consensus of the council but I don't I don't need a motion.

Okay.

So then does the council uh want does the council need me at all or want me to amend what I have already submitted or I guess from an HR perspective are you comfortable with what has been discussed here again I there's not leading I really don't have a strong preference.

I know it's kind of an unusual situation because I've already submitted a notice of intent but um obviously they can't vote you know right now because it's a work session.

So again we'll defer to the manager from an HR standpoint whatever is we you know try to come to an agreement with with HR on what you're entitled and then if there's a dispute over that then we'll seek outside counsel and resolve the dispute but try to work it out.

And then if there's a dispute over that, then we'll seek outside counsel members of the dispute, but try to work it out.

Yeah, I I wouldn't necessarily I don't think that's I I would be surprised if that becomes a point of um difference because it's pretty objective.

You know, I think it's kind of to be honest, like either you get it or you don't.

I think it's kind of binary, is kind of my reading of it.

But um I think the bigger question is from an from an exit standpoint since my current resignation notice says April 13th, and since the council cannot vote today, really not to put Jennifer on the spot, but are you comfortable from an HR standpoint taking this informal direction and saying that my final day will be February 9th?

Because if the answer is no, I can certainly amend my notice to make it a to make it February 9th.

Whatever is and it's it's really a contractual question.

I guess that's there's an HR component too, because you got benefits and other things, but it's really a uh it's an a contract interpretation and a contract uh on our end.

So um I know we don't want to hire outside council and I don't hire outside council either, but at the same time it's really um giving it a giving opinion.

You really can't ask somebody on your staff who you supervise now to give us an opinion on on your contract.

It's really more than an HR question, it's a contract question for you and city manager on her contract.

So does it what would it hurt to amend it for the dates to match?

I mean, does anything change?

We're saying we're triggering severance regardless, so it's not like we're yeah, I don't think so.

Is I'm I'm totally comfortable with that.

It sounds like you're just looking for direction.

I'm just looking for I'm just looking for direction to make sure that Jennifer and I kind of sync up on what needs to happen administratively.

That's really all amend it the council's direction is that February 9th, correct?

I want to make sure I understand.

Yes.

And then council has consented to um pay the severance.

Correct.

Um that's what the record is gonna say, right, Madam Clark?

Okay.

So you know what I mean, like it's at the will of the council, so I don't I try to make things simple.

I don't need anything else.

Um I'm looking at the HR director and um you know, also our finance directors here who's over payroll.

So I I mean I feel like this is very much on the record um in terms of direction, and we take direction outside the form of a motion regularly.

So I am comfortable exactly because we're not we are not making an interpretation on his contract.

We are following council direction.

So this is this is council's direction to do something, and so it's not a matter of us interpreting it, it's a matter of following the direction that has been consented by the by the council.

Essentially you're calculating what these are.

So uh just to clarify, because I think this is what David wants to make sure the record reflects.

So the resignation count there's consensus amongst council for the resignation to be effective February 9th.

I mean that's how I understand it, but I want to make sure that that's how everybody else understands it.

Yes, okay.

For me, if we want to go down the road, February.

That's fine.

I'm fine with it as long as there's not some legal jargon that we're tripping because now we're getting calendar before your 60-day trigger or something, and we're triggering some other clause that we don't know about.

I mean, if we're saying that doesn't matter, we're gonna ninth or tenths doesn't matter, then who cares on the date?

But yeah, I mean there's nothing I'm worried about in that regard, it's more about to the clerk's standpoint and to the manager's standpoint, making sure that you have an appropriate record so that HR knows how to categorize it.

If the will of the council is to accept my resignation as of February 9th, um, I think that kind of speaks for itself.

Um, but wanted to make sure the manager had an opportunity to say anything else, not trying to lead, but just saying if there is anything.

No, no, no, this is a good time to absolutely I appreciate that.

I just like I said, uh, based on how we've taken direction in the past, I'm I am comfortable with the direction that the council has provided.

Um so I'm good.

Nothing further needed from my standpoint.

It'll be reflected in the notes in the minutes.

Okay.

Um leading into that.

Um I did uh poll together.

I I've reached out to three firms that uh recruiting agencies for um city attorneys.

Two uh two of them didn't give me the formal response, but one did, and I spoke with strategic government resources who would they did um they did the successful search in Northport.

I've apologized to the council, but I circulated by email what they sent today.

So that's what I would as I said earlier.

Having um have a go and act as the interim, I think that that's a good idea, and that we would want I don't mind putting that on our agenda sooner rather than later.

Um and he would serve as interim while we are searching for a city attorney.

I think it's good that we open it up to everybody.

Uh we had last time um we did a search, they got tons of candidates, they had very good candidates from all over.

Uh I don't know if there's anyone on our current staff that's interested.

I've talked with a couple about it.

Um I haven't had anyone say for sure on our staff that they're interested, but we would invite their applications.

So I would like for us to go ahead and engage this uh a firm.

I would recommend strategic government resources to start the process.

They would begin by sitting down with all five of us talking about what we wanted, what we didn't want.

But the um we we've already got a job description posting from the last time we had city attorney at that uh opening that I think would be pretty close.

Um but I would and and they told me um they told me that they had reached out to somebody or spoken with somebody in procurement that said that there was some piggyback um relationship that we might be able to piggyback on.

So I'm not sure if that's true or not, but this is what the gentleman told me yesterday or or Friday, yeah.

Hi, Karen Swaper, talent acquisition uh manager.

Uh yes, that is correct.

Uh they do have an option that was one of the ones that uh we were going to recommend as well upon request.

Um, regardless if there is a piggyback option contract, you still have the option to negotiate or get the quotes outside of the piggyback contract.

Um and thank you for providing a copy as well for us to review.

Um, do you have any additional questions?

Did anyone else submit some proposals to you that I had one, but didn't no, I we did not request for an informal this will be an informal solicitation less than 50,000, um, which this is around the 28,000 mark.

So we're we're anticipating 30 or less.

Yeah.

And um, so anyway, that's I'd to council member cotton to your point earlier.

I I'd like to see us get going.

It's going to take a while to get good candidates in, and we want that.

Um so I would recommend we go ahead and engage these.

I think the sooner the better.

Yes.

So I've done some research too, and you know, this is one of the discussions that um I had with the city attorney as well.

Um, which I'd be uh I'd like to hear what other options you all have for potential companies, um, but in my research, you know, I I didn't come up against SGR, but I found good reviews and uh client response as well as um top marks in the agency and looking for number one major Lindsay Africa, they have an office out of Miami.

Um I want to say that their headquarters is in Maryland.

Um number two, a boutique service.

Um I'm gonna butcher this.

Renee Norlog, I believe was the name, and number three uh was another one one that I came upon was at Baker Gilmore.

Uh also had really high marks from previous clientele and and they all specify in public service as well as CEOs and those types of things, but also have a niche for uh litigators.

So that was one of the the search parameters that I was looking for.

It was not just a head hunter organization, but something specific that had a niche with um finding good qualified uh litigator or just attorneys.

So those were three that I had done a little research on.

I didn't I knew this conversation was coming.

I did not make any phone calls to these people first because I figured that we would discuss it.

So that's that's where I'm at with that.

So I got those three and provide them on reference if needed.

Okay, Vice Mayor.

Uh I didn't do any research uh either.

I was um hoping that the HR department would um make some suggestions.

I do like the idea of selecting or having two or three to select from.

So that's what I would appreciate.

Sure.

Okay, thank you.

And now it could include what the mayor suggests, which one suggests uh suggested.

I'm uh I did I definitely didn't do any research, um, and I'll tell you why.

It's because I I feel in approaching this process, the first question that we should ask ourselves is do we have the talent in-house?

And unfortunately, the direction of this discussion that you are we're already having is sending a different message than what I think I have.

And my what I've gathered from talking to the community and and around is that they believe we do have the talent in-house.

Um, so I think we need to be careful with what message we're sending uh to our city's attorney's office.

And if we have three qualified candidates that are sitting in that office, uh morale is important, and let's make sure that that we are respecting that.

Um I thought the discussion would be are we promoting internally or do we need to do an executive search?

Not I didn't expect us to sit down and people to say we've already done our homework and started the executive search process.

So that's new to me to learn.

I had no idea.

So it sounds like the direction from the dais is an interest to do an executive search.

Um my feeling with this is nine times out of ten in an executive position, I think you have to do that executive search.

I think when you don't, you don't allow Babe Ruth to possibly walk through the door, um, and you're eliminating that.

This is a different beast.

Um, this is a different situation.

Clearwater, we've all said many times is extremely unique.

Uh, not unique necessarily in the challenges we face, but unique in the magnitude of them.

And we have bits and pieces of challenges that many communities face, but we face them all.

And from a world-class beach and all the issues that go with that in tourism to three entertainment venues to professional baseball and to our downtown issues with the Church of Scientology.

We are extremely unique in the challenges that we face.

I find a lot more comfort that if we addressed that question of do we have the talent in house and we come to a yes, I find a lot more comfort in knowing that somebody in-house that has walked that path that has net navigated these challenges, even next to Pam and next to David, uh, I I find a lot more relief in that versus pulling somebody else from the outside from an executive search that's willing, finding somebody willing to take this job will definitely be um be of a challenge.

Um so that I that's kind of my initial thought.

So this kind of caught me off guard.

It I respect it, I understand it, it makes sense, but I find more comfort if we say we have the talent, we answered that correct.

Let's send the message internally that we promote within if we have that ability.

And if if it's an interim label and see how it goes and what direction we go, and if we have problems or need to make a change, that you know, then we open it up.

But I'm I'll support whatever the dais decides.

It's Mark God.

Thank you, sir.

Yeah, um, I fully hear that, and if that is what uh was received, that was not my intention.

Um working in government, you know, I see it as an opportunity for our in-house, and I would 100%.

I think that I think that the first step is finding who the the organization is, right?

And then you uh talk with that agency to get all of our perspectives to hone in.

One of the things being in-house people, right?

Making sure that they're they get a full shot all the way to through it, they're vetted, you know, because it gives them the opportunity to do it, maybe not jump through the same hoops that others would have to.

I mean, that would be a conversation that each of us have individually, but I you know, I would see this as an opportunity for our in-house people because just thinking of my uh promotions and stuff from a government perspective, I've enjoyed the process.

It's allowed me to better myself when interviewing and going through what uh a fire department promotional exam is, and uh I would think that it would prepare these people to for the future.

So if anything, give them practice with it.

Um and I would wholeheartedly encourage anybody in our legal department to most assuredly apply because as we've all stated up here today that David's done a stellar job of putting together a great group of internal litigators and attorneys in minds and encouraging them to do the best, we might have the diamond, right?

But still do the process and open it up and then you know, even if it comes to a point system, right?

Fire department does point system if you're a veteran of those types of things in-house, maybe they get extra points.

Again, this is what we have to hone in on, but uh in no way was I ever trying to say that we don't have the talent in-house.

I definitely think that we have some talented individuals, um, and and I would hope that they would apply, and I would like to see them excel and maybe rise to the top, and that is it, you know, but not leave the city with the potential babe roof that does walk through the the door, you know.

Maybe that's already in our door, but at least at least get there that way systematically.

So I'm not sure how we go about selecting the process.

Maybe you guys can throw it out for an RFP with some things that we've thrown out there for certain companies if anybody else wants to take time, I don't know.

Couple things.

Uh one and then to advise me, but a couple things.

I I agree with you.

We we had a great legal department.

I told them this the other day and had a chance to meet with them.

I mean, they're great.

We got great folks.

We could we could use another attorney, particularly to figure out the litigation part of it.

They've been short-handed, but David, you've done a great job of building great department with great people, they serve the city well.

Um I do think that to you know, echo what you said, the competitive environment for this kind of position and city manager position is good.

Um and would encourage anybody to apply and be part of the pool of candidates.

But last time we got some really good candidates, and we chose a good one, but there were other two or three other ones that were I mean, it was very competitive.

We had uh good processing yielded some good candidates.

So I I think we'll get that too, but that would be what I would say.

I would encourage anyone internally to apply, but I do think we're doing some respects them a favor uh disservice if we don't do an open search to just you know promote somebody from within without at least initially taking a look to see what's what's out there who might be interested.

Vice Mayor, yeah.

Yeah, I apologize if it came across um that I wasn't appreciative of the legal team.

I was just super focused on what was uh commenting, you know, what um the mayor was commenting on.

I um have deep respect for the legal um team and all the incredible work that they do every day, and I firmly believe, and I think I've proven that I do believe in um promoting from within it has definite benefits, it rewards institutional knowledge, dedication, and allows and and encourages growth from our employees into leadership roles.

An internal candidate has intimate knowledge of the city, it's trust, and we and he's fully aware of the challenges that we face every day at the same time, conducting an external search can bring fresh perspectives, and it can also strengthen the credibility of the decision if an internal candidate is selected.

So please do not interpret my super fix fixing on that topic as I do not have any appreciation for the legal team.

I I've actually intentionally not have said any personal things so that we it would be less uncomfortable.

But um, Mr.

McGolis knows how much I respect him.

Yeah.

And his team.

Well, and um the other thing, you know, we uh we we can continue to sort of proposals, but I guess we I mean that would our next meeting's February.

It's it's off a way, so um if there was a way to select somebody before the next meeting, but I hate to punt it three three more weeks out, you know.

That would be the only advantage of going ahead and considering some that have well at least the one, you know, or or I I don't want to I didn't I I understand if we want to consider other other proposals, and you mentioned some that I don't think I had a chance to talk with.

At the same time, I don't want to delay it even further, which is already probably gonna be, you know, or could be a longer process.

Counsel, do you wish to schedule a special meeting just to discuss that the search process where uh HR could have the opportunity to seek the quotes and then counsel can decide which firm to go with.

Perfect.

Yeah, that'd be great.

Sooner than later.

Yeah, I mean, what I'll do is I'll cur I'll work with the assistants and the staff assistants, try to find a date, and then hopefully have it on the agenda for Thursday.

Okay, if that's okay with the manager.

Yeah, that's fine.

And um the HR department did some preliminary work on this to be just to be able to answer questions that you all may have, not to start any process or anything like that.

That's why we don't have any quotes.

The information that they have basically is is based off of who um has piggyback contracts out there, who has done this type of search before, that type of information.

Um so if you if while we're looking for a date, would like HR to do anything else in terms of soliciting quotes because they have not that direction, you know, I mean that we wouldn't have to wait for the special meeting to get that direction if you want to provide them direction.

Tell them to do that now.

Definitely the ones that Council Mr.

Cotton mentioned.

Yeah, I mean I would appreciate.

I mean, if we could do the major Lindsay in Africa, that was one of the top ones that I had researched, especially uh looking for city attorneys.

Um I can probably get you spelling later because I left my notes at home.

Um but uh and then the last one was Baker Gilmore, but that was my top three.

Like that's when I read the agenda item, that's just when I started my research and looking through different companies and being narrow-minded for you know niches within legal aspects of things, uh, but I would greatly appreciate them being a part of the list.

I have a question, and maybe this David City Attorney can answer this.

Uh Fueno just went through this process and we lost for Wino in an executive search team is the one that hired him.

Maybe we include that company in it.

They uh have a fresh list, they just have probably a whole list of that's the viable account.

That's this group.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay, so to just be clear, um you would the council is asking for um us to go ahead and start soliciting quotes for this and anticipation of a special meeting and hopefully to have that information by that.

I don't I don't know how quick they will respond, but we will certainly work on that if that's the direction of the council.

Yes?

Okay, so those three that um council member cotton suggested and then we have the proposal from SGR now.

Understood.

Is any other questions?

Okay.

Um and also anticipation of the timelines um with guidance from procurement.

Uh, if we go ahead and submit those tomorrow, um Friday would be reasonable for a deadline for them to provide that quote back.

Okay.

Good.

Okay.

Um item 17 in business, in a new business.

Item 18, council comments.

You might feel like I haven't had enough to you.

No.

Um so with that, we will adjourn the work session of January 12, 2026.