Order.

Okay, thank you.

Again, will the public safety committee please come to order?

Uh Madam Clerk called a roll.

Present.

Thank you.

Since we do not have a quorum at this time, some of our colleagues are having issue with water on their way down the city hall.

So we're going to deal with the overtime issue first.

It's a difficult morning of trying to drive on many of our streets.

Um does everybody have it?

Okay, good.

Thank you.

And so um, I'm not gonna indicate the officer's name.

Uh, but when I look at the top 50, um, I'm looking at an officer that um overtime was 176,000 on top of their base pay.

Another one 170,000 on top of base bay.

Another one 157,000 on top of base pay, 156,000 on top of base base.

So these folks are all making well over 200,000 in compensation.

And I'm trying to understand, and I appreciate because we had asked for uh the units that they are assigned to.

So um, and I'm assuming you have the same print out.

The chair is correct.

We all have it.

So I'm gonna we're gonna ask some questions on some of these units just for clarification.

But I want to but I want to say this as well.

We were told that by going to the body was told by going to the 12 hour uh shifts that overtime would be reduced.

And um it's just the opposite.

Overtime has not been reduced.

Now I want to say this to the viewing public.

Umtime is a is um the reality within the division of police.

Within police fire EMS, you're always gonna have overtime.

We know that because when if if officers are on a scene of um of a crime or of a horrific incident, they're not gonna leave.

Uh that's their job, they're gonna be there until relieved.

Uh same with a firemen, firefighters, they're not gonna leave a working fire.

That's just the reality of life, and so there'll be overtime.

EMS is not gonna walk away from someone who's injured.

Um nature of their job is a safe life.

So we know within the Department of Public Safety, there's always going to be overtime.

It's that's just the nature of the business, and there's no way to get around it.

Um so that being said, when I look at the uh the dollar amount of overtime, um it concerns me greatly because every dollar we spend here, especially general fund dollars, um, it takes away from some other um section within the city of Cleveland, some other delivery of goods and services programs, etc.

So, director, would you care to comment?

And I would just as you have the list, and again, I'm not gonna ask you to mention any names, we're not gonna talk about any individual names.

Um, but if you can start at the top of the list which you have and work down so you can so especially uh the viewing public and the and my colleagues who might not know what some of these units are, would have a better idea as to where these officers are assigned.

So let's start at the very top and work down.

So we have the airport, um, and we know that that we have officers assigned to the airport by FAA um requirements.

So explain what DSU is.

That's the next line.

That's the uh downtown services unit.

Okay, downtown service unit.

Then lot two would be what?

Just a lot uh impound lot.

Vehicles are impound lot too.

Okay.

Airport is the airport as you're aware.

Yeah.

And uh D1 is district one, and that's uh a squad of officers.

So that would be when you say D1, what is that?

District one, I'm sorry.

Yeah, when you see uh it's just district and then the number of corresponding with the districts.

Okay, and then D1 would be um CSU, that would be district one, the community service unit.

That's correct, yes sir.

Okay, then traffic that's downtown traffic unit, correct?

Okay, then keep going down D2 squad A.

Same thing, it's the district two and the squad A would be what director.

The first shift.

First shift, yes.

Okay, let me write that down so we all know what we're doing here.

Okay, first shift.

Okay, keep going.

Again, it's lot two.

No, you have stance.

I'm sorry, Prime Minister.

Explain what stance is to the viewing public.

Uh Chief, can you tell what that acronym and I don't remember from the top of my head?

Uh to the chair's stance is a street and new synchronous crime enforcement.

That was a detail we put in place to combat the um car break-ins and vehicle takeovers.

Okay.

Then uh DSU downtown service unit again, D force um again, fourth district, squad D.

What time would be?

What shift would squad D be?

Uh to the Chair D squad as nights, 6 p.m.

to 6 a.m.

or 8 p.m.

to 8 a.m.

Okay, so nights.

Okay.

Okay.

Squad B would be what time?

Uh to the chair, that's day shift, it would be 6 a.m.

to 6 p.m.

or 8 to 8.

Thank you.

And then C is also that night shift.

Night shift, okay.

Okay.

We got airport again, we got DSU, Airport, Airport, mobile support, explain mobile support.

Uh to the chair, mobile support does the video redactions for our body cameras.

Okay.

Okay.

Video.

Okay.

AIU?

Uh to the chair, AIU is our accident investigation unit.

They do call-ups for all um pursuits and serious accidents.

Okay.

Okay.

Airport, airport, airport, DSU, sex crimes, D4 detective unit, narcotics, homicide.

Okay, let's go down.

Is there any other questions?

Okay.

Mayor's executive protection, D1, Squad D, Airport, Homicide, Airport.

Let's go down here.

Okay.

Okay.

These are the top 50 that we have.

So obviously we didn't go down farther than the top 50, which again, as you can see, even if you go down to the last one on our sheet here, which is an officer assigned to the traffic unit, that officer.

His overtime was 81,000 on top of his base pay.

So director and the chief.

Because again, I want to go back to what we were told at the table with regard to the 12-hour shifts.

That we were told that there would be a substantial reduction in overtime.

And yet we hit an all-time overtime record in 2025.

No time in the history of the city of Cleveland to our records, unless you can show us otherwise.

Was there ever more overtime occurred than in 2025 in the history of the division of police?

And now here we are again confronted with the situation of overtime going in 2026.

So who's trying to get a handle?

Who's looking at overtime?

The chair, that's the responsibility of obviously us here in Department of Public Safety as well as the command level officers and supervisors in the division of police and the overtime that you're seeing, obviously, it's it's something that we look at.

Um something that my staff look at my team look at, the chief and her staff looked at to make sure that uh all overtime is necessary.

Um given to the officers who are working those particular hours.

So we really keep a close tab on it.

Um the demands of the division of police have gone up uh over the years, uh, various uh uh details, uh special events uh that take place, as you mentioned before, as you were explaining to the audience that's that's listening or watching or both, is that you know uh officers uh when something comes up, they they just can't leave if there's a critical incident, they can't leave, firefighters and so forth.

But here we're talking about division of police in particular.

Um and there are many things that occur throughout uh uh the the uh um the Monster days that require and necessitates officers to potentially come in when they're off, and there's a special events.

We've had uh rash of break-ins that require um officers to to um work uh special details, and then uh uh few of those, if not most of those may be on uh overtime.

Uh we have the car meetups, that's a detail as well.

The chief created the stance unit to deal with some of these issues and it requires details when things happen.

Um there are times that we have to call people in to deal with those particular situations.

Okay.

So that uh requires overtime.

And again, we're very judicious in the uh uh giving of uh overtime to the members of a division of police.

Okay.

But look at the this is what I'm trying to understand.

If you were to work 40 hours a week, um and under the new 12-hour shifts, what would be the average hours that an officer would work a week with the 12-hour shifts?

What so an officer would work how many hours a week?

To the chair, it's normally 48 hours per week.

48 hours a week now.

40 to 48.

Yes, 40 to 48.

Okay, it's so it switched in a 14-day period, we work seven days.

Okay.

So to the viewing public who's going to work um 40 hours a week, 52 weeks out of the year.

That would come out to roughly about you get line.

280.

So you have officers that have put in more hours, have put in have doubled, have doubled the actual hours in a year.

How do you do that?

How do you do that?

Who's sleeping?

Who's sleeping?

Through the chair, there are rules uh set in place for the division of police.

For example, you mentioned 12 hour shifts.

Uh if uh officers are going to stay uh beyond 12 hours, the we have the GPOs that state they can only stay four additional hours.

Um if I'm wrong, Chief, please correct me.

Uh to the chair, there's a couple points of clarity I just want to add um for one our our overtime hours were the highest in 2023.

It's the dollar amounts that are higher to date because of the um pay raises.

Okay.

Uh the 12-hour shift officers work 2184 hours a year, not 2080.

Um so they have been they work in excess of the 2080.

Give us that number again.

2184.

2184.

That's an officer would work.

That's what the 12-hour shift officers work.

Um, and when you look at their schedules, when we look at this list in particular, um, they work seven days in a 14-day period, and they're off seven days in a 14-day period.

So if they were to go to their district to fill a vacancy, or they have the opportunity to go to another district to fill a vacancy, that's an automatic 12 hours.

Um, and it adds up quickly when you're talking about 12-hour shifts.

Uh a lot of the um individuals on this list are not assigned to patrol.

Many of these are airport, which are not a part of the general fund budget.

I understand.

Um so that overtime is mandated by the FAA requirements, and those are slots that we have to fill.

We have to fill the certain amount of posts, you know, to be in compliance with the agreement with the FAA.

Uh when you talk about our investigative units, many of those investigative units call up related to a crime, you know, in particular our homicide unit, some of the other detective units.

Um when you talk about our downtown services unit, um, the work that they do includes all of the protests and special events that occur throughout the city.

Um as you know, there's a lot of times that protests just pop up without notice, and it doesn't give the division of police the proper time to um prepare the staffing.

So we have to have a minimum amount of staffing to um prepare for these events and to you know cover the events themselves.

Uh the demands and today's day and age does require a lot more police activity and a lot more police presence, you know, beyond just the special events and the district operations.

Okay.

So again, I'm trying, and I will call I will put anyone everyone down.

So I'm I'm trying to get I'm still trying to get to the point where if someone put in 2,825 additional hours on top of their base hours.

94 hours a week.

How how do you function?

How do you function?

Do you ever sleep?

Do you ever go home?

So to the chair, we do have a policy that monitors the amount of overtime that officers are using, including um you know, a monitoring by us internally where we try to limit overtime to 16 hours or to the overtime and a shift to 16 hours and a 24-hour period.

Um we understand that the officers, you know, we try to explain to them their health and safety and the safety of our residents is a priority, and we need to make sure that they are able to function.

So we do monitor the amount of hours our officers are working.

Um but there are some that will work every one of their days off.

And those overtime opportunities are sometimes with special events.

Uh there's sometimes with um airport vacancies, sometimes with a district vacancy.

There's many officers that are on this list that will go and work in another district to fill a vacancy.

Okay.

Okay.

I'm going to open it up for questions of my colleagues.

Um I have Councilman Joe Jones down.

Okay.

Anyone else questions?

Okay.

Okay.

I'm going to limit everybody to 10 minutes right out of the gate, and then we can put you back on if you need additional time.

And again, I appreciate every coming coming down.

I know that some people have been, as I said earlier before we started, some people have been dealing with water issues.

So I again I thank everyone who's here.

Councilman Joe Jones.

Mr.

Chairman, you know, um, as we we open this up, we have this list that's in front of us.

And um just wanted to make sure of all of the people who are working at the airport.

Is there 16?

Is that 16 officers that's on this list?

Or did I miss somebody?

There's excuse me.

There's more officers at the airport, but this is the top 50.

The top 50.

So these are the top 50 that did overtime, is that correct?

Councilman is correct.

Okay.

Um, here's what I want to fundamentally understand, because sometimes we can just point out certain things that just stick out to us uh and we don't have all of the the facts pertaining to how we got where we are.

So then I guess this question would be, Mr.

Chairman, to um whoever can answer.

Um we look at um this number, let's take the top one if we could take the top one.

Um there's uh at the airport two two thousand eight hundred and twenty-five hours overtime.

Is that correct?

Through the chair, that's correct.

In addition to how much more time over you over the base pay is the officer supposed to work, of course, the total hours there.

Through the chair to the council member, that would be 2080.

That'd be uh what?

2,080 hours.

2,080 hours.

That would be your base pay hours.

Through the chair, that's correct.

And then so of two 2,080, and what's that total?

How many?

I mean, is that uh uh how many hours?

It's almost five thousand five thousand hours.

How many hours is that a week?

Uh so we do look at that um the total amount of hours they're working per week.

Um I would just have to uh use a calculator for that to be honest with you.

But yeah, I I understand the question.

Um to the chair, one point of clarity I wanted to make sure that we also talk about is the fact that uh the division of police has never had a transfer ordinance, so we've never had to take overtime or money from another division within public safety.

Um budget, we've always maintained our budget even with the um overtime hours that was not.

Councilman.

Okay.

So what's do we know what the what they how many hours uh the this is the men and women that happen to make this list?

Do we know in fact, where did this list come from?

Um, councilman, we had requested this list.

We had requested this list of the administration.

I see.

Yeah.

So who determined who would be on the list?

It was just we asked for the top 50.

Okay, so the top 50.

And the number that you have is on top of base pay.

Okay.

So then if this officer is at 2,080 plus to 2,825, that comes to 4,905 hours.

I'm not sure.

Can't is that correct?

Is that I want to make sure my own.

To the chair, that sounds correct.

Through the chair.

And then how many days is that, Mr.

Chairman, to the director?

Whoever can answer that.

Through the chair, that's for a full year.

That's for a full year.

Yes.

Okay.

So how many how many days is it that this 4,905 come to through the chair, I believe the individual officer referenced here works almost every day off.

So he's working through the chair.

It through the chair.

I mean, if you did it as just say he never took a day off throughout the year, it would be an average 13 hours a day.

It looks like 16.

You are you trying to count on Saturday and Sunday?

Through the chair, they work Saturday and Sunday as well.

I see.

So this particular officer here at the airport work six hundred and thirteen days.

If you put it all together in equipment of eight hours each, eight and eight being sixteen.

So one day he's actually working two days worth of work.

And I got a total over here.

That's why I asked you if you could do the math.

Yes.

Make sure I'm correct.

So through the chair to the council member, it could be.

I mean, he could work a maximum of 16 hours per day per our policy.

So then let me ask this question because we're only just dealing with the one piece at the airport.

So do we have a shortage at the airport?

Through the chair.

Yes and no.

We are not at capacity for staffing at the airport.

But I can tell you that my priority is patrol first.

So we do have to, you know, if somebody calls off, if somebody is in training or on vacation, those vacancies have to be filled.

We are not at full capacity at the airport.

Okay.

So the question is what is the what how many people, how many police officers do we have at the airport?

Through the chair, I believe we have 34.

Um but I would I have to double check that.

I believe it's 34.

34 officers at the airport uh on any given day?

Uh through the chair, that's total assigned.

So that's 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Okay.

And so of those 34 officers that are assigned at the airport, um uh how many do you have to have at the airport to be at your full capacity?

How many are you short?

Through the chair to the council member, we are trying to determine that right now.

We have different numbers.

We have 2020 numbers, and then we have um current agreements.

I believe our records indicate that we're down about five currently.

Um but the airport I believe has a different number um that they believe that to be.

So we're trying to work through that right now, but we do have a specific number of posts that the division of police covers.

Okay.

So we have we're down five police officers, we but we don't know.

Through the chair, maybe five down, but we're not sure.

So from my estimates, I believe it would be, you know, uh five officers, but I think the airport feels different, but we do have a number of posts that have to be filled.

Okay.

So so we don't know, we're not sure.

But you'll get back with us and let us know what that number is.

And there's a reason why I'm asking this question.

So would you be able to get back with us and let us know what that number is?

Absolutely.

And um, so now we're looking at a police officer who is at the airport, at least the numbers I got here, are telling me that he has been there for 613 days out of an annual year.

And so, but we don't know how many police officers are supposed to be there.

So, what is the average time that a police officer at the airport would normally spend at the airport?

Uh through the chair, the council member shift is eight hours, but um again, you know, as you can see just from this list, you identified that there's 16 of these top 50 are all airport positions.

But um, as we had talked about, that doesn't come from the general fund budget.

That is uh, you know, that's something that's required by the FAA and also paid through by the FAA.

Well, I'm trying to get an understanding because that if that police officer has a base pay, where who's paying the base pay?

I believe that goes through the airport as well.

I believe I believe so.

I believe their salary is a very important thing.

So we're not aware of that.

So we're not doing the airport.

Through the chair, councilman.

We'll get that.

We'll make that request.

So see, Mr.

Chairman, we're not sure though, right?

So that's the reason why I'm asking the questions.

We we should kind of know that uh if they're being paid out of the general fund for the base pay and then overtime is being paid out of um uh subsidiary account.

I don't think so.

Through the chair to Councilman Jones.

Both the uh base pay and overtime is funded through the um Mike.

One second, please.

We'll have the guru come to the table and talk to us.

I apologize.

Um fiscal manager um Michael Gellman uh make sure that we give you the correct information.

The uh overtime uh the your salary is all paid through the uh reimbursement.

It's not through the general fund.

For airport.

For the airport officers they're assigned to the airport, that is correct.

That includes benefits as well.

Yeah.

And and then, Mr.

Chairman, one of my concerns is is that it is is uh a concern that if we have a police officer that is working 613 days, um how does he or she get rest?

And this has been like, you know, uh, and and I and um and the reason why I'm asking this is because this is germane to another question in the fourth district as being one of the most violent districts in all times in the history of Cleveland uh of all times in the history of Cleveland has been very violent district, and I know our police officers work a lot there to keep our our community safe, and my my head is off to uh those officers.

And oftentimes when I talk to them, Mr.

Chairman, um they exhausted.

So and and they burn out uh and they express their burnout to me and they express the exhaustion to me.

So seeing these numbers here, um uh how how do we how do we qualify 613 days for one police officer?

I mean, don't we have some kind of policies, Mr.

Chairman, that's in place that will um give our police officers a break?

Okay.

So through the chair, this is not mandated.

Joe, uh Councilman Jones, your time is up, but let the chief respond and I can put you back on.

Please make the so through the chair, the this is not mandated overtime.

This is voluntary overtime.

So they volunteer to fill those ships because when there is a vacancy that exists outside of an operation, it opens up division wide.

Um so that's why you see a lot of the officers that are on this list, these are not mandated schedules.

Okay.

Um we as a command staff and as supervisors do monitor the amount of time, and that's why we put the restriction and guidelines of the 16-hour max because we know they they may not feel that it's too many hours, but we have to put a cap somewhere.

Okay, thank you.

Councilman uh Councilwoman Hudson.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um I just want to make sure I understand um regarding the officers who work at the airport, through the chair.

Um I you know, I understand that they're you know paid out of the airport enterprise fund.

Um but are there overtime hours included in this total amount of overtime?

Um the chair to the council member, yes.

Okay.

So it uh just for uh clarity, when the our total amount of overtime includes that and all other reimbursable overtime hours as well, so it's not separated out where you see that this is what the general fund, it's just one lump sum of the total.

Okay.

Okay.

So on the budget, and there's a line item for police overtime.

That line item includes overtime for officers who work at the airport, even though that is not coming from the general fund.

Uh through the chair to the council member, no.

So the the budget request is for the overtime itself.

But our total expenditures include everything else when um the chair identified the record number of hours, those overages are a lot of the reimbursable overtime amounts.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you for clarifying that.

And uh another point of clarification.

Um I know that officers um work uh you know at CAPS games and um special events like that.

Uh is that completely separate or is that included in overtime?

Through the chair to the council member, that's all included.

So um, you know, if if an officer chooses to work off-duty at a at a cabinet, that's not a good thing.

No, no, no, that's that's not off-duty, the on-duty personnel are uh so through the chair to the council member when you see the officers directing traffic outside or the details on the outside, those are usually your on-duty, everything on the inside is your off-duty.

Okay.

Thank you.

And um are there who approves the through the chair, who approves uh overtime?

Uh so through the chair, um the the authority on the overtime approval is the commander.

So it gets reviewed through the chain and to their commander.

So that's where the final approval level is.

So is there through the chair is there currently any limit um to you know how much overtime an officer can pick up so through the chair to the council member the 16 hours is what we are um we try to cap everyone at is the 16 hours and that is a clear message throughout the division.

We have audit measures in place to make sure that we can look at that and they can be flagged to the deputy chiefs or to myself.

Okay.

So 16 hours out of a 24 hour day but not um you know but if they choose to work seven days a week 365 days a year that's okay.

Through the chair unfortunately that's where we have you know we don't have a mechanism for because of the fact that they're sticking to the 16 hours.

Okay and um through the chair are there benefits other than an attempt to reduce overtime to having a 12 hour shift so through the chair to the council member a lot of the overtime even the the top earners here are not related to patrol operations there is overtime and patrol but a lot of these the overtime here is related to things outside of patrol um you know our priority is always staffing our frontline first sometimes means that um when you have your homicide unit your investigative units you know we don't prioritize beefing those up as well to to you know to knock down the overtime because it's always the front line that we want to make sure is covered first.

Okay.

So again to clarify was the motive through the chair was the motive to switching to 12 hour um ships solely to reduce overtime or were there other um reasons behind it?

So through the chair to the council member it did um reduce overtime it gave the officers an opportunity to have a better work schedule uh prior to 12 hour shifts we had one eight hour shift and two 10 hour shifts and we didn't have the proper staffing to maintain those shifts and when we changed over to 12 hours we before the 12 hour change we were mandating a lot of people to work overtime and this has reduced the number of mandates you know there is voluntary overtime that happens but it has reduced um the mandates to which was causing a lot of issues with our retention.

So through the chair would you say that switching to 12 hour shifts has benefited officers morale and um you know and in their work in other ways besides overtime through the chair to the council member I think that um overall the feedback that we've had has been positive since the start and change over to 12 hour shifts I think if you've uh you'd ask most of the members now if they wanted to go back they would tell you no they like you know for those who like time off they have a lot more time off for those who like to work they have more opportunities to work whether that be on duty or secondary employment.

So through the chair um a typical police officer who's not picking up overtime would work four days a week through the chair um it would be seven days in a two week period so three days one week and four days the second week okay through the chair if I can also add uh the chief is right from uh the conversation if I've had with officers uh the ones I've talked with they they love the 12 hour shifts and they would not go back because they're again to the chief's point of those who want to work overtime they can they have the opportunity as a voluntary and uh those who want to spend a lot more time off with their families to have that opportunity as well.

So from my research and from the individuals I've talked to they're really uh happy with the 12 hour ships okay thank you um that's all thank you thank you counseling uh councilman slife thank you as I'm crunching numbers just to make sure that I'm clear when we say that it's not affecting the general fund for airport officers are they being paid directly by the federal government or is the federal government paying like there's if I buy if I buy councilman Palencick a ticket to the Guardians game and he pays me back it's simultaneously true that I paid for the ticket and he paid for the ticket you know so I'm trying to understand as I crunch the numbers is are those officers reimbursing the general fund and then the general funds paying them so so really the the it's it's kind of general fund neutral versus officers being paid directly by another entity for another budget.

Do the chair to consummate's life the obviously the officers are being paid initially and then being reimbursed through the uh obviously the enterprise fund in federal government.

Okay.

I I think I share the concerns of of burnout and third thank you for your service 13 hours a week seven 365 days a year that's wild.

But clearly the work needs to be done so we someone's got to work overtime I suppose.

What I'm trying to understand and why I'm looking at the numbers and I know this is sort of back of napkin math but in 2025 we budgeted if you 14 million for overtime and then the rest of salary and benefits was let's say 2002 and a half million dollars.

That's that's according to my phone's math.

The act when you look at the actuals and then compare the differences we were 16 let's say 16.1 million dollars under budget on salary and benefits and 13 million dollars over budget in overtime.

So the argument that essentially goes is yes we are we are I get one could say that it's sort of kind of misleading during the budget season because we're budgeting for the the vacancies but when we don't fill the vacancies that just gets put into overtime but it ends up a scenario where overtime is never exceeding the value of those vacancies right.

So I'm trying to understand where there's a break even point on hiring versus overtime.

There's certainly going to be a scenario where it makes sense to put someone on overtime to go direct traffic versus let me use a different city service we could quadruple the number of people involved in grass cutting for the period of the year that we need grass cutting but then the question is do we have work for them for the rest of the year?

And and there's a uh the uh a budgetary reality where it just makes sense to pay someone overtime for a short short period of time rather than putting a position into the budget that we don't have workflow for.

So I'm trying to understand kind of how that analysis goes and where do we need to be comparing overtime hours versus budgeted staff.

So to the chair I can probably provide a little more clarity and I'll just give an example back in 2020 our budgeted overtime was 14 million.

And we expended 14 million six hundred and seventy five thousand we were only six hundred and seventy five thousand dollars over but as most everyone knows, you know, there was a deep um a deep drop in our staffing you know once COVID hit and once you know there were the a lot of anti-police messaging we saw a lot of people separate.

So as the years went by from 2020 with the 14 million dollar budget we had a in 2021 we had a 13 million dollar overtime budget.

And we exceeded that by five million and that's when you saw the decline in officers and we are now increasing but the other thing you know that I had mentioned in 2023 was our all-time overtime hours but in 2024 and 2025 the value of those hours has increased.

So that's why you know I hate to say sticker shock, but that's why the number is looks as high but we've actually are starting to come down on our overtime hours and with the you know increased hiring we hope to continue to trend down on those as well.

Okay.

To the chairman I'm reluctant to make an uh data ask because I'm I'm sort of mid-brainstorm but I think what I'm interested in trying to get at is is a easier way to compare salaries and benefits budgeted versus overtime budgeted and the fluidity between those two because to the point earlier you know that's it's it's not even a transfer from above the line to below the line like it's within kind of the same numerator of the budget.

So it's just moving dollars across the table as as I understand it.

The um the other thing that I think would be useful because comparing this data in front of us to the question about the 12 hour shifts is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison because there's a lot of people on here that I think would still be on the eight hour shift.

So I mean maybe a more specific data request is if there's a way to get a a sense of uh quantifying the savings and overtime for people that are in a 12 hour shift that would have previously been in an eight hour shift.

I don't know if that's as simple as sort of filtering a spreadsheet or if it becomes more complicated than that.

Um but I do think that we're interested in kind of understanding the the quantitative value of having gone from the eight-hour shift to the twelve-hour shift, in addition to the qualitative things that you said by officers, enjoy or appreciate the flexibility of it as you're explaining to us.

Um I'll massage that with Ibukun and we can follow up.

Um the last thing that I wanted to ask about is uh just getting clarity on the uh CPPA and FOB contracts.

I know that one of the things that was said in the media is is the contracts are designed in a way that seniority determines overtime.

Uh so uh theoretically, if someone has higher seniority, they're at a higher pay rate, and then that and and I guess my scenario on that is that is uh uh that is collective bargaining.

That's not something that I have the ability to uh even micromanage uh because I'm not a party to that agreement, but I think it'd be useful for us to understand how the collective bargaining agreements speak to overtime uh because that is arguably something that the workers have have fought for and agreed to.

So to the chair, if you go about seven names down on the list, you'll see how that impacts that.

Um so you see that there's someone who worked actually the highest amount of overtime.

And the lowest it lower in dollar value.

So that's when you talk about do you see where I'm I see, yes.

Okay.

Oh, so I was thinking the person for 94 hours a week.

Now I gotta do some algebra.

Uh that's even more.

Yeah.

Um okay.

But thank thank you for that clarity.

That is useful.

And and in it's in the future if it's possible to get like uh a total in stuff like this just at the bottom.

Uh I started to frantically try to add up all the 50 numbers, but then I got distracted.

Um but that that I know I I might pull this and sort of do some math on math on my own.

But but the numbers if you look at the overtime hours and the dollar values throughout the entire list, they're different.

And that's because people are at different pay rates.

Okay.

Uh, but but uh so again, that is can you can you speak a little more to the union contracts?

Yeah, through the chair to the council member, um, when you talk about the level of patrol officer, you have patrol officer four to patrol officer one, and they get annual raises, and that takes them at different steps, and they cap out at that patrol officer one, which would be the max salary.

Um so when you look at you know, someone who is just out of the academy, they're gonna be at a lower rate than someone who's a patrol officer one.

Okay.

And then finally, it's just is it is it accurate that uh voluntary overtime is there is a relationship between voluntary overtime and seniority.

Through the chair, it could be, but um I don't see that happening as often.

Um, it's usually there are vacancies to fill.

Um, and if someone is looking for overtime, they can find either another district, the airport, or an event that's happening to fill.

And through the chair can also add too that obviously the overtime.

I know you're aware of it, but I think it's important to put on the record that overtime is not limited to patrol officers.

Yeah, sergeants, lieutenants, and captains, just to make sure we have that on the record.

Right.

Well, and and the reason I'll close with this uh chairman.

The re what I'm trying to ascertain is we all want to get our overtime under control uh and we don't want to be blowing the budget.

There's an argument that we are blowing the budget, we're moving money between different aspects of the budget, but also there are collective bargaining agreements that are an externality of this that we do not have control over how the system that we design or the budget that we implement maybe works out in the real world uh because we're not parties to those agreements.

And I'm just trying to I'm not speaking academically, I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this.

So I'll leave it there.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilman.

Uh before I call upon councilman Casey, I do have okay.

Uh before I call upon Councilman Casey, I'm gonna just indicate um we have the and I can provide this to you and the chief touched on it briefly.

In 2020, uh budget was 14 million.

Um the actual amount spent uh was 14 million six hundred and seventy-five thousand and thirty-one um thirty-one dollars.

That was under Mayor Jackson.

2021, 2021 was um budgeted 13 million.

The actual amount was 18, 310,546,000.

That was under Mayor Jackson.

2022, we budgeted in the mayor's estimate 13 million.

Actual spent, $22,000,556,000.

That was under Mayor Bibb.

2023, we budgeted based on a mayor's estimate, $13 million actually spent $26,000.

Under Mayor Bibb.

So I'm going to stop there and then I've gonna I will provide a copy, Madam Clerk, if you would run a copy of this for all members to have that.

Councilman Casey, floor is yours.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Mr.

Chairman, to the chief and the the director, you realize that there's only 8,760 hours in a calendar year.

So for somebody to work $4,905 total hours in a year, that's the equivalent of working from probably January 1 to July 31st, 24 hours a day.

That's a lot.

So my question is of the top 50 people here who are earning all this overtime, these hours may or may not allow them time to have vacation.

So the question is is on the back end, are these individuals or people who are earning this kind of overtime accumulating overtime and vacation time that they're not using, so that eventually at some time we're gonna have to pay them out.

Is that going to be a hit in the future?

Chief, through our to the chair, or through the chair to the council member.

We have what they call work your furlough days, and that's what it is, is they're still taking the furlough days, but it's contractually, they can also work their furlough days where it's not on the back end of the city.

Um but our timekeeping code would be, you know, they're still taking those furlough days, but they're also working overtime on those days.

So basically, Mr.

Chairman to the chief, it's almost during furlough, a double dip, right?

You're getting paid for your furlough, and you're working overtime.

And is overtime time and a half?

Through the chair, yes.

That's correct.

Okay, so in certain circumstances, we've got somebody being paid to be on furlough, we'll say for a week, but on top of that, because they're working overtime during furlough, they're also making time and a half um for that week.

We'll just we'll just say that, right?

I mean, I I'm not off in saying that, correct?

Through the chair, that's correct.

Okay.

So and one thing, Mr.

Chairman, to the chief.

What is lot two?

Uh, through the chair to the council member, that is um where we process vehicles.

Okay, that's a lot of things.

There's that much overtime to be had at an impound lot.

Through the chair, that is where our vehicles um related to crimes are processed towed to, uh, which has to be staffed by police because of the chain of custody, 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Again, that is a unit that um the staffing is lower.

All right.

Um, but Mr.

Chairman Chief, how many people are assigned a lot to then?

Through the chair to the council member, I'll get an actual, but I believe maybe four or five.

Okay.

All right.

And then Mr.

Chairman to the chief, one thing we kept hearing um was the overtime accumulated um because you you had the car details, right?

That that deals with a quality of life issue for neighborhoods.

So nobody on this side of the table or anybody should complain about overtime dealing with quality of life issues, right?

And we we accumulated 2,177 hours of overtime dealing with the situation that we had too with the with the thefts.

However, um we 1,279 hours for St.

Patrick's Day, 2,079 hours for the feast of the assumption, 1,617 hours for the air show, 95 or 2,000 one 1,600 for the air show, 959 hours for the for the Puerto Rican festival.

And then on top of that, which is all on the cities, the city's dime.

And then on top of that, for the Browns game, 10,480 overtime hours.

The Guardian, 6,128 hours of overtime.

The Cavs, 3,923 hours of overtime, and other special events with our stadiums, 7,657 hours of overtime.

So with between the Browns, the Guardians, and the Cavs, that overtime that is not reimbursed to the city, correct?

That's actual overtime.

Those aren't individuals working within the stadiums because those are paid by the Browns, the Guardians, or the Cavs.

But this is all in addition outside the stadium, correct?

So we have an overabundance of overtime hours related to just events.

People come in, they leave, they go home.

But then we're hearing that one of the reasons that the overtime is up is because of the car break-ins, which is a very, very, very small percentage of the 514,765 hours of overtime.

It's a very small percentage for a quality of life.

So my my request from the to the chair to to the chief is is there a way to break out the overtime hours into details in the neighborhoods, like dealing with the car break-ins, quality of life issues, you know, stuff that that are impacted more by not special events and actual what the residents would consider is you know police work being done in the neighborhoods.

Uh through the chair to the council member, we can uh take a look at I believe you're working off the same sheet that I have.

You know, when you look at events that are in the neighborhoods, you know, just like protest exact events themselves are almost 9,000 hours.

Right.

Uh but we do have our details that are broken down.

Um we have our violent crime enforcement details, the neighborhood safety initiatives.

Um we do have a breakdown we can get for you.

Okay.

And then Mr.

Chairman to the chief, can we get any statistic statistical results from that overtime?

How many number of arrests, how many UTTs were issued, what whatever whatever it is.

Through the chair to the council member, yes, especially when it comes to the violent crime enforcement details.

We have all the uh the stats that go with the okay.

And then uh another topic that I want to touch on, Mr.

Chairman to the chief, is during budget hearings.

I had mentioned the uh police overtime for a mayor's detail uh in his travel.

So we had since learned that there's 256,000 dollars that we spent in overtime uh on the police's travel.

He was gone for 43 days on 13 trips.

Mr.

Chairman to the chief, during the budget hearings, you indicated that there was a risk assessment that was done prior to him going on trips to see what exactly his detail would be because the one thing we were focusing on then was the obviously the Martha's Vineyard trip, right?

Mr.

Chairman of the Chief, can the council get a copy of the results of those risk assessments?

Like who does the risk assessment, what determines the need for the extra security, what determines the need for two, and then how are those officers paid for overtime?

If it's you know a three-day trip, right?

Are they paid for 30?

You know, are they paid for 36 hours and then the rest of it is all overtime?

Is it a 24-hour detail is somebody being paid 24 hours?

If you could just touch on that.

So through the chair to the council member, no, no one is being paid 24 hours.

Um the reason when we talk, there's a couple things when we talk about the detail overtime.

One is the amount of events while the mayor is there, and then the security throughout itself.

So when we talk about um the amount of hours an officer can work, we also take into account the detail officers having one member travel, and if there's um security needed for 18 hours that day, maybe because of multiple events through the day to the night, we take into account that that officer also needs uh downtime.

So sometimes there will be two members.

Um as far as the risk assessments, we also look at that.

Um as far as the risk assessments, we also look at that, you know, what is going on nationally.

You know, I have been there have been a serious risk or threats to um politicians.

You know, those things are all factors that we put into place when we look at that, but it's very challenging, especially if it's a distant trip or a long trip for one member to handle that on their own.

All right.

So, Mr.

Chairman, to the to the chief, there actually isn't uh uh a pre-trip assessment that is done to determine what's needed for security purposes.

So through the chair to the council member, um this past year I assigned a supervisor to oversee the detail, and part of his duty is to look at each trip and to evaluate the risk and the what the needs are.

Okay and then he makes that determination of what the needs of the staffing will be for each trip.

Okay, and then um since you mentioned it, right, Mr.

Chairman to the chief, we we had learned yesterday, at least I learned yesterday about the threats to local politicians, right?

Especially the letters that are that are going out in one hit account an elected official locally.

Have we heard of anything or you guys keeping an eye on these letters that are allegedly being mailed out that's could possibly be a threat to elected officials?

Uh through the chair to the council member, that is something that we are prioritizing through our intelligence unit.

Okay, and also here um at the city hall with the security staff.

And then Mr.

Chairman to the chief, please.

And not just our leadership, but if you could keep each council person apprised if you hear of anything in regards in regards to that, because I'd want to I'd want to know directly from the horse's mouth and not a third, not a third party or time sometimes could be of the essence in this situation.

So if you could keep each council member apprised, we'd appreciate it.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Thank you, councilman.

Thank you.

Uh councilwoman uh Stephanie House Jones.

Yes, good morning.

Um good morning to everyone.

I had just had a couple of questions.

So um I I just want to make sure I heard correctly.

Um the chief indicated if I heard you correctly that you all were on only spending what you have, but I'm trying to get clarification.

So as we um reported for 2025 in the budget, the 14 million that was allocated versus the 27 all in case 27 million, that was an overtime.

So where did the 13 million or so come from?

Uh through the chair to the council member, that is uh I think Councilman Slife mentioned a little bit our still our staffing budget.

So when we look at our end of year expenditures compared to what our budgeted annual amount was, we did not exceed our annual budget as a toad as a total.

Okay.

So you're saying because you do not have so let me uh so that's okay.

I just went a lot of different things.

Um your uniform personnel, that's I'm gonna say give or take eleven, a little under eleven million dollars there.

So you're saying because that's 11 million in uniform personnel.

So that's still about and I'm just generalizing that's still like an additional two million dollars.

I I get what you're saying a bit, but okay.

Um for you all sent over a list that people have been referring to that kind of broke down the various hours, and I just wanted to get clarification.

It was it says police work, staffing, um events and reimbursable.

How does that correlate to the 27 million?

So this is the other thing.

I'm like for how does that correlate through the chair council member, you're talking about this total expenditure?

This is this sheet right here that goes through these various hours of some sort, and I'm trying to understand how does that correlate correlate to the 27 million dollars in overtime?

So through the chair to the council member, I think you're referring to this one I have here as well.

So these are hours worked, and this breaks down the categories for what that overtime was related to.

Uh-huh.

Um so when you talk about the one items as police work, um when that is, you know, that is just regular frontline police overtime.

Yes.

So let me can I get a clear just I'm gonna clarify.

So do all of the hours that you listed for police work, staffing, reimbursable, and events, what those hours equal up to the 27,724 and 238, do those equate?

To the chair of the council member, I believe so, yes.

Okay.

So with that being said, there's this one box that says 168,499 hours non-crime.

What is that?

And how is that broken down?

Because that's a significant amount of hours, but it says non-crime, and you have I I don't know what that is at all.

And you who can respond to this.

So I then the non-crime call-up number I have here is 217.

Um so if you look under staffing, uh right above the total, it says 168,499.

So what that does is identifies those totals right there to the entertainment detail.

It's not so the totals that are above it, which would be entertainment detail, record file, warrant removal, or do you have all those under staffing?

Okay.

I'm talking about this right there.

So what's this total then?

Through the chair to the council member, if you look at right below there, does it say on yours 236-223?

Yes.

Okay.

So above that 168,499, when you talk about non-crime related, that means it's not related to the police work overtime.

So that number comes from the staffing codes, the overtime codes for the entertainment detail, which was 11,733 hours, record file, warrant removal, the public square detail, settlement agreement training, parking lot vehicle break-in detail, um, outside district overtime, the public uh the headquarters relocation, the academy classes.

Okay.

Do you have all that broken out?

I but you okay.

That's where total that's where that 168 is where those numbers are coming from.

Okay.

Okay.

Help me under I I'm trying to do y'all like just like I'm maybe I'm just not understanding.

Because I'm trying to understand, no, go through because even just doing a quick math, that don't that doesn't equate 168,499.

Yeah, through the chair to the council member, I can get clarity for it, but our code are all all of our overtime is under codes.

Okay, that's um, so I will make sure that that's broken down.

Yeah, that that doesn't that doesn't that those numbers are not equate and so I'm trying to understand specifically if you got 168,499 where those exact are because from my perspective, I'm gonna go back to my um question that I asked before uh through the chair uh to the team here.

What is what what's the status of the current workload analysis?

Well, where is that at through the chair to the council member?

You're talking about our staffing plan.

That's what we're currently in the process of looking at what that looks like.

Yes, so I'm trying to what's the status of it and when we have it?

So that's something that um we have been working on what we've seen over the years is we've seen a reduction in our budgeted staffing numbers.

Um so right now we have to take an analysis of our supervisory level as well, um, because when you look at the number of frontline officers, you know, the numbers has have been cut over the years, but the budget and numbers for supervisors is still the same.

So we have to work with the um collective bargaining agreements to reallocate all of those numbers to see what the actual numbers needed are.

Um we have separate analysis being done currently, one from the um police side and one from an analysis side.

So those are two different uh studies that we have going on at the same time just to see what the comparatives are and then best practices.

Okay.

So through the through the chair to the chief.

So this is m maybe this is a request.

Can you send me the actual whether it's the contract language or the request for proposal, whatever language you use to in order to do this analysis so that I'm clear on what a what are we actually asking from the beginning and what are we looking at?

And then the other question is understanding when will we, when is it supposed to be, when is it going to be given, when is it going to be complete?

That's through the chair to the council member.

We had a staffing analysis that's already been completed.

Um we are re we are taking another look at it.

That's already been a completed submitted through as part of the consent decree.

We can send that to you, the analysis that was already done.

Um we just are we did not put out an RFP for this to be done again because the process was already completed.

But we continuously have to take another look at our staffing numbers because each time when you look at the budget and you look at our numbers, we have to see where the needs are.

Okay.

So through through the chair to the chief, when was the staffing analysis done from the staffing that you are reviewing now?

When was that completed?

So through through the chair to the council member, I can get that for you with the exact date.

We'll get you a copy of that.

Okay.

And as uh yes, and then I'll ask all my questions.

I mean, to follow up because it's one of the things that for me is challenging to look at all of this stuff without having all of the other information in a comprehensive manner.

And when you're trying to look at even the hours, we have a list of hours, but then we don't talk about the value of those hours.

So I think also as we are pre uh providing this level of hours, can we equate some type of way it needs to be correlate to the value of those hours and be in a format that we can actually look, whether it's exhale or something like that, because random PDFs make it ext exceedingly hard for people to do research.

I have one follow-up question.

Yes.

It was just from the perspective of the director through the uh chief uh to the um I mean the chair to the chief.

You indicated that based on your interpretation, people are satisfied with the 12 hour shifts.

Do we have a surrender survey that correlates to what you're saying?

Have we done an employee survey?

Who can respond?

No, it was it was Chief Johnson.

I do not have knowledge of uh if a survey was conducted.

Uh this was me talking to various officers that actually have C and uh they call me and uh we we talk about that.

Uh the chief may have more information relative to a surveys that's being conducted within the division of police.

And through the chair to the council member, it's also through the um conversations with the uh union, the leads of the unions of both unions.

So they represent their members.

Um they represent the you know, the the Cleveland Police Patrolman's Association represents our frontline officers and the FOP are supervisors.

So these were negotiated through the unions and voted on by the unions by the members and um the conversations continued when we first implemented these.

Uh we had a it started in January and October, we sat down and talked about it again and to see if there was modifications needed for the 12 hour shifts and if we were going to make them permanent, and then they became a permanent part of the contract the following year.

Thank you.

At the vote of the members.

Thank you.

Okay.

Okay.

Um thank you, Council Lady.

Councilman Jones, your backup.

Mr.

Chairman, you know, this is um certainly a um complicated subject matter to try to grasp within the space of time and not really um really be prepared because the you know more I look at it the more I have more questions.

And um and when you broke down your what we budgeted for and what we actually got is one thing, but what we have been asking for here at the table for quite some time going all the way back to the Jackson's administration when we had the overtime budgeted for 14 million and it stayed close to that in 2020 uh to the budgeted amount of 14 uh six as probably part of that is due to Mr.

Chairman um the COVID.

Um when we look at 2021, we see that we we budgeted for less at 13 and received at 18 million.

And each subsequent year we see that the overtime has actually increased in the City of Cleveland.

And though we have the list that's in front of us, it doesn't give us a general breakdown of the the total um overtime spent and the breakdown of all the officers.

So the question would be um Mr.

Chairman Um when we talk about and my colleague Charlie Slife touched on this a little bit about the union contract.

Um when we talk about that that line item that I had brought up, how how much are we how much is that cost?

Is that when you say time and a half and overtime?

Explain that.

Can you break that down?

That union understanding of everything?

Chief?

And and and Mr.

Chairman, I would just say that this table is not fundamentally um competent.

Uh at least I know some of the members I've asked questions are not they don't understand or grasp all of the deals are in the contract uh that were negotiated with the union contract, we've never had a briefing, Mr.

Chairman, not one time.

In fact, uh Mr.

Chairman, we have never had briefings, which uh as relates to union contracts uh and all of my recorded history of sitting here on the council.

So I would suggest, Mr.

Chairman, we really fundamentally understand the union contract and how it encumbers us financially.

So I think that having that understanding sitting here, if we're going to, Mr.

Chairman, be good stewards of the budget, uh, we should be able to understand what those points are, what those negotiated points are and how they impact us on a financial level.

Um so then, you know, sitting here going back and forth about who did what and where they got it from and how many hours doesn't make sense to me.

So what will make sense to me, Mr.

Chairman, uh is um having an understanding of what appears to be a lack of policy to rein in and keep control over the overtime budget.

Um if we're going to say that we budget for 14 million and we go over that um amount uh uh more than that, we double that uh amount, or or we go over that amount to the two times that plus sum uh where we budgeted in 2025 for 14 and then we were at 27 million, 28 million round-off mark.

Um to me that doesn't make any sense to me.

So what would that, Mr.

Chairman?

What what what are our policies really governing overtime?

Uh and then the the next question, Mr.

Chairman, um, and and and don't think now for one moment, um I'm I'm in disagreement with the overtime or have an issue with the police officers with the overtime.

You know, um I I was one of those workers who loved overtime.

So I I went to get as much overtime as I possibly could when I worked for corporate America and then when I ran my own business, I don't think I ever slept.

Um so um uh I'm profit-driven.

So I understand that as as human beings, we want to get as much as we possibly can.

But we need to understand here at this table, Mr.

Chairman, uh, what does that mean?

What is the total breakdown?

How much how much overtime is is is in these districts, these districts that we we you know, I'm just not talking about with the list you got in front of me here.

I want to know how much overtime is being uh put in into these districts, especially in the fourth district in particular.

Uh, Mr.

Chairman, um we we have crime that's overriding our our neighborhoods.

I've sat here and hadn't had a voice in a year because it's a nonsense.

And so at the end of the day, what I will say is that our neighborhoods we need to know at this table what that overtime looks like uh and the breakdown in terms of the districts.

And I will say this too.

Um I have much respect for our our our men and uniform and what they do for us uh in the city of Cleveland, but I would love to, Mr.

Chairman, understand what that policy is.

What is our policy dealing with overtime and how to keep overtime reigned in?

Uh so through the chair and the council member, one thing that I just like to point out the collective bargaining agreements that exist within the division of police are no different than any collective bargaining agreement throughout the city.

When an officer is hired into the division, they are hired at a certain pay rate as they advance in seniority, those pay rates increase, and this is similar to police fire, EMS, water, it's any different uh level of you know, service and civil service throughout the division.

Um our cap is at five years.

When the officer reaches their max pay grade, then they have the opportunity to take promotional exams, which then again increases their salaries.

So when you look at this list, this encompasses different salaries as well.

So when you look at the dollar amounts, sir, um, but with each you know, raise in rank, it's a promotion, which is a pay increase.

Um the collective bargaining agreement, like I said, is not any different than any collective bargaining agreement in the city of Cleveland or elsewhere.

Um as you work the longer more years of service you have, the higher your pay rate normally is.

But for the division of police, it does cap at five years where you hit your max salary, unless you take a promotional um exam.

And the district overtime breakdown is something that we can get for you.

Right.

So well, my my thing is is that you know, um, hearing that, what what do you have a book of policy on overtime?

Uh to the through the chair to the council member.

I think I I had made mention, you know, that we have audits in place, but we also try to cap our members to no more than 16 hours and a 24-hour show.

So we do have a book.

Do we have a policy?

Right.

I'd like to, Mr.

Chairman, to understand the manual.

Um do we use technology like data analytics uh to um identify the crime and which I know we do and trends uh in the neighborhood and how we allocate resources and opt in optimizing our patrol schedules.

So when we start talking about manuals, those kinds of things will say that, right?

Do you have those kind of books that tell you that?

Through the chair to the council member, we have manuals for each of our units.

And when you talk about the analytics, we use telestaff for our staffing, which is an analytic as well.

Okay.

Um so that is all digital, you know, the payroll is digital uh so that we can track it and break it down the way that we do.

So, Mr.

Chairman, I'd like to have a complete breakdown of how the overtime is done.

Uh and um would like to have policy manual so I can have an opportunity to throw myself into it and understand how it fundamentally works.

Because Mr.

Chairman, we can sit here at the table and try to break it down, but we really won't get a comprehensive understanding of it.

So for me, I'd like to know a little bit about the policy and how it works.

Um and how our overtime processes work.

Or we're gonna sit here, Mr.

Chairman, we're gonna continue to get these these numbers, these projections.

So if we did 27 million over overtime uh last year, what do we look to do uh this year?

Are we going to go over to 29 or 30 million?

Through the chair to the council member, um, the budgeted amount is the amount we're giving.

That's not the amount we request.

We understood that our need was going to be higher than that, but we try to be fiscally responsible to our residents.

And you know, we know factually sometimes when you get the 14 million, um, we know sometimes it's it's not going to be enough.

Right.

So I guess the question is based upon your analytics, if you have that, it should give you uh uh ideal if you're going to be overtime.

Is that correct?

Based upon what you have done in the trend, it continues to go up.

Through the chair to the council member, we have our timekeeping unit as and as well as um our deputy chief of administrative operations who are your projections.

I believe in 2026, the budget amount was 22 million.

Mr.

Chairman, to the director, let me rephrase the question.

What is your projection for this year in terms of overtime based upon your analytics?

Because you've already told me you have an automated analytics system, you do have a policy.

Um so the question is, do we know what that is?

And then and Mr.

Chairman, and I'm not wanting to sound difficult here.

Uh what I want to do is try to really fundamentally grasp it and understand the concept here, what we're really fundamentally talking about.

If we're going to understand it here on the council, um, and I certainly don't understand how you got things rolling.

Um for me is is real clear and simple, Mr.

Chairman.

If we're supposed to have so many officers, because see that's what we need to be explained.

It needs to be explained clearly for us so that we understand it in black and white.

If we're supposed to have so many police officers in order to keep our citizens secure and safe, we just passed off a budget 420 some million dollars.

And um our citizens are not feeling safe with a 400 and some million dollar package, half billion dollars pretty much.

So at the end of the day, how many police officers, and this is what I would like, and you don't have to answer it, it's just something to put on the back of your mind, so you can come back with an answer.

How many police officers do we need to to pull our overtime down?

What what is the the requirement based upon your analytic system?

Because if you have an analytical system, it should be able to plug those numbers in here and tell us.

So how many how many police officers do we actually need to have in the City of Cleveland to drive our overtime cost down?

Through the through the chair and the council member, I just want to our analytics system doesn't tell us project what our annual overtime is going to be.

I think that's where there's a misunderstanding.

So you already know, Mr.

Chairman, what you're going to do year in and year out.

So you have an ideal.

So based upon the overtime, we got one person spending his life working.

So we should be able to, if you don't have that in place, we need to have the system in place that can break that down.

So you either you have a system that functions or not.

So through the chair to the council member, do you have an analytic system council?

Our system functions.

But I didn't ask the question, Mr.

Chairman.

But you're not letting me clarify either.

Councilman.

Go ahead, Chief.

We have a budgeted number of staffing, which is 1350.

We are about a hundred down from that currently.

When we look at how we deploy those officers, we put them in districts.

If somebody takes off a work, calls off sick, is on vacation, we have to fill the backfill.

If an event pops up, if there's a protest, if there's a council event that the request comes in that you need police officers there, those are all done on overtime for the majority of the time.

Because we are filling the needs of our residents, but there's always additional asks, additional events, a concert that comes up, some type of crime trend that happens, whether it be a street takeover, car break-ins, that we throw a lot more resources at.

So to project it for a year isn't an unfair ask.

We project our staffing, and this is, you know, based on our operational needs right now.

But something could happen next week that could throw a kink in everything that we could have to cancel everyone's days off.

You know, when I, before I became chief, when St.

Patrick's Day would happen every year, they canceled everyone's days off.

So everyone in the division, their days off were canceled, they were all mandated to work.

Which when you look at that, there's could be half the division, maybe off that year.

I, since I've been chief, have not canceled days off as a whole.

You know, it was it happened all the time.

You know, whether it was a big thing.

To the chief, I have a certain amount of time.

Your time is up, by the way.

And then I need more time because you told me that that the chief have more time now.

You can put me back on.

Okay.

Because I'm not finished.

Okay.

Um let me say this to my colleagues.

The requests that are being made at the table, I hope our research staff is hearing those requests because we want to get that.

What I would ask is well, you did provide to us the list of the 50, which I appreciate.

But I would like to know uh for each of them what their rank is.

Okay.

Because that was that would give us a better indication as to um why we're looking at some of the numbers that we are.

So, Ms.

Councilman Jones, I'm gonna give you 10 more minutes and then we'll have legislation.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Um I guess you know what I'm trying to get at is we're we're 27 million.

We went from 14 million over time, uh average budgeting anywhere between 14 uh and 13 million, but we continue to go over.

So that is an awful lot of different things that are happening.

This is gonna cause us to be over.

So uh it would be nice, Mr.

Chairman, uh, if we could get a add-on to the request that you got there, what districts are they actually fundamentally working in?

And this is my issue, police.

So Well, the 50 the districts are on there.

If they're if they are assigned to a district, it is on your sheet if you look at it.

We just don't have their rank.

Right.

We don't have their ranking.

So my request, Mr.

Chairman, not to belabor it, um, is okay.

So we don't have too many people from the fourth district.

It looks like we only have two there.

And the fourth district, Mr.

Chairman, and I'm gonna ask, uh, are we going to get any more police, Mr.

Chairman, to the to the safety director?

Because, you know, fourth district, you know, through the chairs of the councilman, uh those uh staffing and uh deployment of uh officers.

Because, you know, Fourth District, you know, through the chairs of councilman, uh those uh staffing and uh deployment of uh officers because Chief uh Todd and her command staff.

Chief, do are we going to get more police in the fourth district?

We've been promised from one chief to the next chief.

You promised us too, uh safety director.

Through the chief that we were going to get more police.

Let them respond to I'm still talking, Mr.

Chairman.

Okay.

Having yielded the floor.

So, Mr.

Chairman, what I'm saying is that we have been promised, and we we need more police on you already know the numbers.

You can come make a presentation right now, and you know already that there's more crime happening in the fourth district than anywhere else in the entire city.

And we're getting pummeled, and I'm losing business and I'm losing residence, and and I'm concerned about the safety in the neighborhoods.

And so we only got two police officers on this list that's overtime.

I would think that this list right here would be filled up with nothing but fourth district police officers.

I would think that that would be the case.

So I need more police officers over here uh in the fourth district, Mr.

Chairman, and we were told at one point in time, Mr.

Chairman, sitting here at the table, that we would place our assets where the needs are the greatest.

And so your explanation, Mr.

Chairman, to the Chief, uh, with terms of the overtime, you're saying we never know what's going to happen on any given day.

And, you know, when those situations happen, we have to have overtime to deal with those issues.

So what does the overtime look like in in the districts, Mr.

Chairman?

Chief?

To the chair to the council member, we just uh our class just got up off probation.

We just put quite a few in the fourth district where we can get you those numbers, and I I think I mentioned before we'll get you the numbers for the districts as well.

I don't have the breakdown with me.

I appreciate that.

And then, Mr.

Chairman, um, you know, I support our men and our women, and so I would presume one of the comments that was made was that we're within our own budget, so we're not going over our actual budget that we've been allocated.

Is that overtime coming out of police officers that would have normally been working for us?

Is that the budget that is that where the money is coming from?

Yes.

Okay.

So then how much money do we have allocated for officers that we're supposed to hire in to uh work that we don't hire in?

How what's that looks like?

How much money is that?

So if you're all if you're if you're budgeted for 1,400 some police officers 1,350.

1,300 because it keeps going down.

Now, why does it keep going down, Mr.

Chairman?

Why are we why are we continuing to go down each year with the number?

Wait a minute, Councilman.

Just the point of information.

In the budget we passed was they were to hire a 180 officers this year.

So through the chair, that's correct, 180 officers.

180 officers.

That's correct.

And so but we budgeted for 1,300.

50.

That's correct.

1,350?

Through the chair to the councilman.

So we don't see ourselves going over the overall.

Through the chair, the council member, I hope I have to come back to you later this year and ask you for more.

That is my I hope I have to come back and ask for more and our staffing.

That is my goal for this year.

I can tell you that.

Okay.

And I am prioritizing district operations.

So when we talk about the airport staffing, I understand we have shortages, but the districts are my priority.

I hear every council member when they say traffic is an issue when crime is an issue, and that is my priority to make sure we have more frontline officers and less on the support side, because we need to make sure our residents feel safe.

Mr.

Chairman, I don't want to belabor the the issue.

I I'm just frustrated here because we still don't have those numbers, Mr.

Chairman, that we were promised when Coots was in there as the the through the chair to the council member.

I don't know what numbers you were promised before.

I'll sit down with you and tell you that our our numbers are right now we're losing through the chair, please.

Thank you.

Through the chair, we have this the same um percentage of staffing, and we do prioritize where the needs are.

And the fourth district is one of them.

The third and the fourth district are our highest needs at this point.

And we do prioritize our deployment based on that.

And I know that the acting commander is doing a phenomenal job, and I would encourage you to sit and talk with him.

And you know, and he can talk more about his deployment plan and address your safety concerns.

And then lastly, Mr.

Chairman Casey talked about a situation about threats.

I would like to know a little bit more about that on the side.

Because I have some situations and issues I want to tell you about.

Thank you, Councilman.

I yield the floor.

Thank you, Chairman.

Thank you, Mr.

Thank you, Councilman.

Okay.

So again, you understand to the director and the chief, you understand our concerns.

And to the viewing public.

When you see the chief indicated that based on a 12-hour shift, that would equate to 2,0184 working hours a year per officer.

That was the number she presented.

And when you see someone who is working 2,825 hours, another one 2,728 hours, another one 2,186 hours, another one 25 2,504 hours, 2350, 2315, 2,099 hours.

You can understand how the viewing public views this common sense will tell you this person is working seven days a week from morning till night.

And I think all of us are of the opinion that's not possible.

That's not possible, unless you want to put yourself in a coronary unit at uh Cleveland Clinic.

So there's got to be there's got to be some better explanation and and um an oversight.

Um in the impound lot, 21 2,0186 hours for someone working in the impound lot.

I would ask through our research, our staff.

I want to know how many cars come in, lot two every day.

Through the chair.

There's four people assigned to that unit, and I received clarity.

But there's four people, and one received two thousand one hundred and eighty-six hours overtime.

That is incredible.

That's incredible.

Um the video unit, video, mobile support video.

I mean through the chair, just for clarity on that, every single public records request we receive for wearable camera has to be redacted, and that has to be done by a person.

Okay.

But you understand where we're coming from.

The amount of hours now, going back to what Councilman, we're going to wrap it up.

Mike, Mayor Mike White believed, but again, the population has dropped since his time.

That's 26 years ago.

He believed we needed roughly 2,000 officers on the force.

And I I bought into it, I agreed with him.

Um, and he his position was it would we would staff staff all the specialized units, we would have the walk and talk, again, the patrols getting out of the car walking.

We would stay uh totally staffed the dairy unit.

Uh we could supply, we um we'd have all the special events covered.

We it was everything, around the clock, et cetera, and we would substantially cut down in overtime.

When Calvin Williams was here as chief, and he was pressed at the table on three separate occasions, and I know because I have it, he insisted that we needed when it was asked what was the number that we needed.

He insisted 1,700.

1700.

That's what we needed to again reduce overtime, cover all special events, et cetera, et cetera.

So now we're at 1350.

We've slid substantially backwards over the years.

And I'm I'm glad to hear the chief say that she is going to do everything she can to fill the 180s, because the 180 we passed last year was not filled.

We passed the budget calling for the hiring of 108 police officers in 2025, and that we did not achieve that goal.

So I'm hoping as we go forward, um, based on the concerns of the council, that all efforts, and I've said this to the director, that we've got to do everything we can to increase increase um increase recruitment, hiring, uh, because every meeting that I go to, as I did last night, what did I hear?

How come there's no traffic enforcement in my neighborhood in our neighborhoods?

That's what I heard last night at the meeting.

Traffic enforcement traffic request want more speed tables.

I I must have two dozen streets, if not more, that we're requesting speed tables, because they don't believe there's uh adequate traffic enforcement in our city.

Um if you look at the number of uniform traffic tickets, they are substantially down, um, which then equates into revenue.

So as we go forward, I will tell you to the both the director and chief, we're gonna really stay on top of this issue because again, council people are on the front lines, they're hearing the complaints, they're hearing the concerns from our citizens, and um we want to see higher profile in our all of our neighborhoods across the city.

Um we understand the importance of the airport.

No one's the beauty uh disputing that fact, but what I hear um and my colleagues are hearing, it's all community oriented quality of life issues.

That's what we're hearing.

And when you were a commander, you know what that's like.

You heard it.

So I'm gonna leave it at that point.

We have two pieces of legislation before us.

I want to thank my colleagues for the questions, and I hope staff if there's any additional questions you have, please let Wilbakun knew that um so she can make those requests.

But again, we want to know uh the rank of these individuals because we're gonna stay on top of the overtime issue.

This is um raise very serious questions for all of us here around the table.

So without further ado, um we're gonna go into legislation.

Uh ordinance number 105-26 by council members Palencick and Griffin by Department of Request and Emergency Ordinance authoring the Director of Public Safety to enter into one or more written standard and requirement contracts and for professional services with digital intelligence incorporated, CellBright Incorporated, and Magnet Forensics LLC for the purchase of various types of digital forensic equipment and services and for related professional services, including the acquisition of licenses if needed for digital forensics unit for the division of police, department of public safety for a term of one year with two one-year options to renew, exercisable by the director of public safety.

Was read for the first time February 2nd, 2026, approved by Director of Public Safety, approved by Director of Finance.

There's no legal objection.

It was returned to us on February 6th.

Thank you.

As stated before, this is ordinance number 105-2026.

And you've uh read the uh Lebstate summary, which I'll go through again.

Uh, if is author if approved, uh authorizing me to direct the public safety enter into one or more uh various contracts with digital intelligence, cell bright inc and also magnet forensics for the purchase of various types of digital forensic equipment and services for the related professional services for the digital forensics unit uh for the division of police.

These uh uh equipment is extremely important for our our folks uh to be able to uh get uh information from uh from equipment, um cell phones and otherwise the equipment that we are talking about purchasing uh was initially um used through the our federal partners.

Um now our our members and division of police have the training.

Now this is uh request is to purchase the equipment so that our folks in our units will be able to utilize the equipment.

So the total cost for the uh of the purchase of this equipment is estimated to be 310,000 and will be funded through a 2025 general obligation bonds capital project and an additional uh funding.

Okay.

And I have uh my my team here including uh Deputy Chief Shalot for any specific questions relative to this legislation.

Okay, Deputy Chief, because uh on the uh on the administrative um report there's no allocation of funds, so just so you're aware of that.

Okay.

310,000.

Thank you.

Go ahead.

Commander, or deputy chief, excuse me.

Good afternoon, sir.

Uh Deputy Chief Chair Shalat.

Yes, sir.

This is just the central equipment needed for the digital forensics unit for the division of police.

These services were provided to us from outside fellate federal agencies due to their staffing and budget uh cutbacks, they're no longer able to maintain the services they were providing to us, so it's essential for us if we want to continue proper technological uh investigations uh to acquire this equipment and start conducting them ourselves.

So, Deputy Chief, you're telling us the committee into the viewing public.

The the funds for this used to come, all of the funds or portion of funds would come from the federal government.

The services provided would come from the federal government.

The when when they began giving us uh providing this service to us, our use of it was very limited.

Their staffing was able to handle it, not a problem.

Is technology advances and more uh technology is used in the commission of crimes, the need for this type of forensic analysis has grown beyond the scope of what the federal agencies are able to provide to us.

So just give us a brief example where this would how this would be utilized in a case of a crime or criminal act.

Absolutely.

Uh uh a good example is ICAC, the internet crimes against children when uh predators are are preying on our children through certain softwares on the internet, uh, getting their laptops, getting their computers, their towers and running this digital forensics able to identify them as sexual predators of the youth in our city.

And that that was previously done by the our federal partners.

Uh this will give us the ability to do that in-house with our trained detectives.

Okay.

Questions of the committee.

Anyone have any questions of the committee?

Councilman Slife.

Um staff asked me to remind you that they had some proposed amendments.

Yes, I forgot.

Hold on.

Okay.

So it's okay.

Not with the piece, so we want to make sure it goes with the piece.

Okay.

So the amendments proposed are as follows.

At the end of section five, insert.

The director of public safety shall provide written notice to the clerk of council whenever any purchase is made through the cooperative process, which notice shall include the details of such cooperative purchases.

In section six after ordinance, insert in the estimated amount of three hundred and ten thousand dollars.

In section six after 20 SF 701, strike and 20 SF 728, and shall also be charged against the proper appropriations account.

Would someone care to make that amendment?

But before I do, may I ask a question?

Yes.

So so well, just a clarification uh to you all.

In section five, uh there's a desire, I think, from us going forward uh that when we use when we use under sec yes, when we use under section 108 of the charter, the opportunity through cooperative agreements with other governmental agencies.

If you were to enter into a contract with a organization through purchases and supplies, we'd get a notification of it in the city record.

If you were to do it with a cooperative agreement, we wouldn't.

Uh so I think the intent of this is just to make sure we get a comparable level of notification that the agreement came just so that it's easier for us to track stuff.

Uh the other question I have is in section six, uh, what is 20 SF 728?

Uh can somebody explain that.

I don't think so.

Through the director through the chair to the councilman.

Uh SF 701 and uh uh 20 SF 20 is the the fund number, sub fund number is 701.

Uh same again for the next one, 728 is sub fund.

Those are the sub funds used for the um the original funding source for your microphone closer.

Oh, sorry.

Closer.

Yeah.

You can pull the right close.

Okay.

Sorry.

It's the original funding source for um this are these purchases.

Uh it's the general obligation bond funds.

Um my concern is if we strike those, we would only be using the general fund for this purchase.

If my understanding is right, you wanted to strike 20 subfund 701 through, I believe the remainder of that section.

Is that correct?

That's what would have been recommended to us by staff.

So we, Mr.

Chairman, for clarification, just gonna eliminate section six.

Well, uh again, we are we are funding this with general fund dollars, correct?

Based on what we were just told.

Through the director to the chair.

No, that's not correct.

Okay.

It's partially funded through the general fund.

Uh the amount of the capital project that we're going to be using is approximately 255,000.

The general fund is going to make up the difference between that and what is needed.

So wait a minute.

It's in the ordinance, it's $310,000.

Correct.

Okay.

You got me confused.

Then you just mentioned $255,000.

What is that?

$255,000 is the amount of the capital project that we will be using to fund this in addition to the general fund to make up the difference.

We anticipate that the full amount is going to be approximately $300,000.

Okay.

So through sure.

So through the chair, and and this was explained to me by our fiscal manager who was speaking to Michael Gelman relative to Section 6 that if we strike that, then all of the money would come from the general fund.

That's my understanding.

If that language is if that's struck.

Okay, wait a minute.

Can I can I say that?

Can I say that differently?

Actually, because I want to make sure if as it's written, it would be 255 from the general obligation bonds and the remaining 55 from the general fund under if it if we were to strike subfund 728, it would be all 310,000 in the general fund.

Is that what you're saying?

Through the chair to the councilman Slipe, thank you for eloquently stating that.

Appreciate it.

Okay, then make a revised um Okay.

Okay.

So I I move uh to uh amend the legislation as follows.

At the end of section five, insert, and I'll give this to you, Mr.

McGory.

Yes.

The director of public safety shall provide written notice to the clerk of counsel whenever any purchase is made through the cooperative process, which notice shall include the details of such cooperative purchases.

Right.

Additionally in section six after the word ordinance insert in the estimated amount of 310,000 dollars.

Okay.

And then the bottom section is gone.

Okay.

Is there a second to that?

Second.

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed?

Okay.

Now, Mr.

Chairman, are we open for questions?

On the amendment?

No.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

Um.

Okay.

Councilman Jones.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Um, can the director explain to me exactly what kind of equipment we're talking about?

Through the chair.

Um Jared Shallot, Deputy Chief is pro more in a better position to tell you about the equipment itself that we will purchase.

I know some of it will be obviously software and also actual computers to assist our detectives in the forensics unit.

Go ahead.

Through the chair to the councilman?

Uh that's correct, sir.

It's it's uh specialized proprietary software uh to allow us to get the data analytics from the technology that we're gonna be forensically um going after.

Uh also the equipment to maintain the the level of efficiency uh of the software, better computers, more high speed computers, more efficient computers are needed, plus the storage, the amount of data that we're pulling from these uh is very large.

So it also includes the storage of the data we're we're doing.

So you're gonna be really more or less getting um high-end performance computers um that uh is equipped with the software to be able to give you the information you need.

So would these be like workstations, forensic workstations?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

So how many forensic workstations are you going to have with this particular contract?

Right now, I believe it's three.

Through the chair, I believe that's numbers, correct?

So we so we're gonna have three high-end workstations that that really give you the forensics of breaking down these systems.

I presume these are the systems that you have confiscated and in um doing your police work.

Through the chair, yes, sir.

Uh does this is also, Mr.

Chairman, include uh cell phones as well?

Through the chair, yes, sir.

Okay.

Did in this do are you are you guys getting any kind of field kits?

Through the chair, I'm not quite sure.

Um there are there are through the chair to Councilman Jones, there are equipment that's that's utilized in the field by our officers when um they confiscate certain uh electronic equipment.

Okay.

So then with with the systems that we're getting right now, are we are we is so I guess I would presume that um uh so it's not only just the the system but it's also the software.

And and what is what kind of software would you use?

I'm just curious.

What what what program are they using?

Through the chair to the councilman, I I you know we leave that to the techies.

I'm not quite sure what the the the uh software is.

Uh I'm not quite sure if that's the chief of Shallot knows, but uh it's high-end software able, which would enable our again, our detectives and uh the unit to extrapolate extract uh data that's really critical uh and pertinent for the uh prosecution of the the crimes that are in the middle of the year.

So what would we be also getting network uh um uh software to network forensic software where you are actually you're analyzing in real time you you're on or to a person and you're analyzing in real time, or would that have been a service that you received from the government previously?

But you just haven't gotten that yet.

Through the through the chair, I'm not quite understanding the question.

Are you like are are you asking if it's like tracking software?

Yeah, it's network forensic software.

It's a tool for capturing and analyzing network traffic.

Um such as Wireshack.

Are you familiar with that?

Through the chair, no.

This if I'm understanding correctly through the chair, uh if it's software that where we can physically track a person live, like track your cell phone, stuff like that.

This is not that software.

This software is we physically have your cell phone, we physically have your computer, we plug it into the system and it extrapolates all the data from it.

I see.

So this is exactly what so with this package that we got right in front of us.

We are we also going to have or it may be, it may not.

So are we utilizing this company staff people to assist us and help us as well with this process?

Through the chair, you're asking if we're going to utilize the company's folks.

No, this this is going to be done by in-house by our detectives.

I see.

And then with that being said, uh, we don't have a a company in the city of Cleveland or State of Ohio that can do this work.

Through the chair.

We were using the federal government agencies, and they're no longer able to do it.

Okay.

Uh okay.

No further question.

Thank you, Councilman.

Councilman Casey.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Mr.

Chairman, do either the DC or the director.

Does this this doesn't have anything to do with the new system that was put in the cars for report taking, does it?

Through the chair, negative.

Negative?

I don't come from that world, but okay.

I'm sorry, that is correct.

It has nothing to do with that system.

All right.

And this this is you guys are watching TV shows.

Yeah, yeah.

So K 10-4.

Okay.

Right, I guess.

That's right.

But no, but this this is a totally different system than the new one that was implemented for report taking in in the cars, correct?

Through the chair to Councilman Casey, completely different system.

Okay.

And then Mr.

Chairman, to the to the D to the DC or or whatever.

Um has that system become a more smoother process?

Starting to figure, I don't want to say figure it out, but now that they're all well trained in it, uh uh is it becoming easier and more adaptable for the for the patrol officers.

Through the chair, uh you're talking about the P1 system, right?

Motorola, correct?

Uh that was which was recently implemented and we're going through the the paces when you have something that's new.

Um there are bugs that has to be worked out, which we're currently working on right now.

Um as far as the usage from our patrol officers, uh Deputy Chiefs a lot would be more in better position to answer that question.

Um but the system is working.

Um again, we're working through some bugs, and ultimately I think once the system is up and and running, um working through the bugs, I think uh the officers will be very uh pleased with it.

Uh through the chair to the councilman.

Yes, we are getting better by the day.

We have multiple meetings every day.

We're working through the kinks of it.

Uh and it it's we're we're seeing light at the end of the tunnel.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Without any further questions, ordinance number 105-2026 is approved as amended.

Please sign it up.

Okay.

Our next piece and last piece is ordinance number 1455-2025 as amended by council members Bishop Palencyc and Griffin by Department of Request, authorizing the purchase by one or more contracts of labor and materials necessary to retrofit a division of police command bus, including installation for the division of motor vehicle maintenance, department of public works, and or the department of public safety.

First time it was read was November 17, 2025.

Was approved by the Director of Public Works, approved by Director of Public Safety, approved by Director of Finance, came to us on November 21st, and went uh November 21st, 25 and went to the municipal services and properties committee.

Came to public safety on February 2nd, and that's why we scheduled it.

Oh, I'm gonna read the amendments, excuse me.

There's no legal objection to this legislation if amended as follows.

In section two, at the end, insert the directors of public works and or the director of public safety shall provide written notice that the clerk of council whenever any purchase is made through the cooperative process, which notice shall include the details of such cooperative purchase.

Section two uh excuse me, number two, in section three, line through line one, after authorized, insert in the estimated amount of three hundred and twenty thousand dollars.

Director, and your team explain this one to us.

Yes, uh to the chair and council members.

Uh again, this is uh uh through the uh division of motor vehicle maintenance.

Um this is uh it's you know an emergency ordinance to upgrade the uh Cleveland Division of Police mobile command vehicle or command bus.

Um the uh vehicle is almost 12 about 12, maybe almost 13 years old.

Thank you, Lieutenant Cannon.

He's at the table here is in charge of the bus.

Um so we are trying to get the vehicle updated.

Um it is older uh with the equipment uh such as on the bus itself we have uh um dispatch stations.

Um to want to make sure we have the proper equipment in there, computers and so forth to bring the bus itself up to uh standards where it should be, so we don't have to go out to uh for a purchase of a new vehicle.

So this is uh extremely important that we get this uh ordinance passed so we can get the the uh bus upgraded.

Okay.

Now explain this one to me.

Is this is the new bus or the older bus?

Through the chair, this is a well it's 12 years old.

Um it's almost 13 years old, so I guess you can say it's uh a newer bus versus the one we had in the past.

But I thought we bought one within the last several years.

I thought there were because I thought please educate me.

Again, I can't believe the time went that fast.

Yeah, through the chair, this we have two of them, don't we?

No, through the chair, we only have one.

What what is a command?

Wait, with the command bus.

What is it?

So they'll they'll explain it to us.

But so wait a minute.

So at this point, I'm gonna get this straight my brain here.

So you're telling me these the bus that we have right now, which I've seen at special events, etc.

is 13 years old.

Well we'll be 13 years old.

Through the chair, we'll be 13 years old.

And we have no other command vehicle bus.

Through the chair last correct.

Okay.

Would anyone else get a comment before I ask for questions of my colleagues?

Nothing.

Councilman Jones.

Yes, Mr.

Chairman.

Can you can you tell me what it's used for?

Through the chair, it's used for um special events and other incidents may come up.

For example, if you have an active situation taking place, um the vehicle is called out, the command vehicle is called out and and it's situated near the uh incident, so we can have a command present.

It could be out in the field, and it also could be to augment um special events that's taking place.

For example, next Tuesday, St.

Patrick's Day, uh, we'll have the uh ELC activated, but the command vehicles bus will also be activated and and officers will be uh uh utilizing the bus uh for command uh area as well.

So it's a various functions, special events, uh various situations come up in the engine.

You have seen it's been on the Luke Easter for some of the events out there.

One of those big huge yeah, it's used for again the same thing, it's the different functions for for So it must be in real good condition because you ain't asking for a new bus.

It through the chair to councilman, it's in really good condition.

Um I have to give credit to MVM who maintains the the bus.

I have to give credit to Lieutenant Cannon who's sitting to my far left, uh, who's in charge of uh that unit and also the bus and other vehicles, so I have to give them and also the driver, Richard Jones is a patrol officer.

They take pride in the vehicle and they maintain it to make sure that it's up to standard.

So now we're talking about retrofitting it.

What are we talking about when we talk about retrofit?

Are we talking about um tearing everything out of it and putting in new technology?

What are we actually trying to do?

Through the chair, that's uh not exactly tearing it completely down like you're talking about.

We're talking about adding new technology in there to upgraded computers and other functions that uh will help um um the help us and the division of police have the best technology and upgrades in the vehicle uh so again we can be uh very efficient when we're out on scenes or uh at special events.

We're we're spending 310,000 to do uh upgrades inside, so that's a half half the upgrade.

Um can you explain to me what that means so I can understand it?

You know, I don't want to sit here and try to push it out.

Through the chair to the councilman.

Uh we have minus just the IT.

We have uh a couple slide-outs also that need to be fixed in the back.

Uh we have a slide out.

Slide outs are so you know what an R V is so it's basically an RV and then the sides extend once we have it set up to give more room to the back.

I see.

So both of those need uh currently they need fixing on that.

Uh we have several other issues on the bus because it's 13 years old that need to be worked on, but the main part of it is the IT package.

Okay.

Our uh printers, our satellite dish, our Wi-Fi, our monitors, our computers, all that needs to be replaced.

I see.

So that that's causing the the biggest amount is just um computers inside this big giant bus.

Through the chair, correct.

That's uh that's a lot.

Is is is is there anywhere where there's like it gives me an idea of what the breakdown looks like because that would be you know how you break it down.

Because usually in these executive summaries they break down what that cost is.

Through the Treasury Council, but we'll get you that information.

We'll request that.

And and also this the if if it's upgraded, we hope that uh council will pass it.

Um we also give us the ability to have backup um um communication if we are able to have our dispatchers uh that can operate out of this vehicle as well, so it gives us the opportunity to have it back up to our communications in case something occurs there at least temporarily.

So again, it's uh it's a vehicle, it's almost like an RV uh almost uh with the slides and everything needs to be upgraded as stated in repair, so it's important.

Yeah, the bulk of the money is coming from the IT package inside uh to make sure we have the the proper equipment, computers and so forth and uh higher end computers and so forth, and again when we're dispatching, we make sure we have the proper equipment in place, and that's why we have the uh the price that what uh estimated at 320,000 dollars for the upgrades and the repairs.

Yeah, it it would be good to see that because uh you know when we talk I thought she was gonna get a whole brand new vehicle uh for this kind of money.

Yeah, through the chair for to to the councilman uh in order for uh a brand new unit with the things we retirement is over a million.

So it must be really expensive.

So with these upgrades uh in the system, how does it enhance your ability and capacity?

Through the chair to the council member.

Um for one, currently the CAD system and the premier one does not work on the bus.

So uh for our dispatcher to be effective, we need to have that all upgraded.

Uh also our current satellite dish doesn't work, so our phones and our Wi-Fi don't work.

So we're currently using uh MyFi's to run our computers, but that's not effective everywhere we go in the city.

Um we have outdated cameras that we need uh replaced.

And with the updates on the bus currently, we can we can run a computer through our fusis system to monitor the city cameras, and without the Wi-Fi, without the satellite dish, it makes it almost not beneficial sometimes uh with with whatever uh detail we're at to watch the surrounding areas with the cameras that are currently up.

Yeah, that's a big bus.

Yes, it is.

And so uh Mr.

Chairman, um uh uh again I wouldn't know where to start unless I have an idea of what the 310 breakdown is, and then that gives me a better idea because I I'm still trying to grab my head and wrap it around the the cost of uh the computer systems and what you're what you're explaining to me right now that it doesn't make sense the numbers in my head at least on some of this technology.

And only reason why I know about some of the technology because I have uh a good friend of mine's is in law enforcement who who is a good geek at these things.

We will get that information, Mr.

Through the Chair to the council member just to let you know, we asked, I asked so Farber is who made this current bus.

They're one of the few in the country that make these mobile command vehicles.

I had him do for what a new bus would cost, and a new bus last year would cost 1.5 million.

That's a lot of money.

Yes.

So these upgrades into that computer.

So this bus in comparison to the cost.

This bus 13 years ago cost us six hundred and thirty thousand dollars.

Yes.

I see.

That was thirteen years ago.

So with the upgrades, it'd be like a brand new bus.

It would be like a brand new bus.

Our our current generator and our current engine and the body of the bus is in good shape with these upgrades, that would extend the life of this bus if I had to guess another eight to ten years.

And then Mr.

Chairman, how fast once you you get these funds, uh, will the bus be up ready and operational?

Through the chair to the council member, I have scheduled with Farber if this goes through to drop off the bus on April 15th, and it will take about a month to a month and a half for them to do the upfitting.

Okay.

And this bus is usually used in emergency situations.

How how do we use this?

Through the chair, it's a combination of both.

It's not always emergency situations, it's special events and sometimes emergency situations.

It's used uh j at fairs, uh the uh safety fares for the uh districts that they're requests there and other functions.

Again, we're gonna use it uh coming up uh this uh next Tuesday.

Uh do we use it for traffic?

Through the chair, it depends.

Uh there are different details that are out there.

If it's requested for a traffic detail, it would be um deployed.

We need you, uh Ms.

Lieutenant Cannon to help us with traffic issues.

We're just being absolutely uh I I can't believe uh just coming in here this morning.

Um uh the car almost ran me off the road.

And so I don't know if if we have do we have any traffic enforcement uh that's going on, Mr.

Chairman?

To the director?

Through the chair, that's correct.

Uh we have the traffic unit uh centralized downtown, but they go out to all uh five districts.

We also have uh two traffic cars in each of the neighborhood uh districts.

We need some help.

And also we need Lieutenant Canon to bring six trucks over there to help us out in our neighborhood.

And so uh Mr.

Chairman, I would love to um and I'm gonna yield in conclusion, um I'd love to have the opportunity to take a tour in your truck.

Um and if you can bring it over there to our neighborhood, I don't think we it's been in Ward 1 that I can recall, unless we've had some kind of special event.

So I would love to see you come over into our community.

Um Mr.

Chairman, I yield the floor.

Thank you.

There will be no jacuzzi in the new command bus.

Okay.

Okay.

Councilman Hudson.

I just have a quick question on the director, uh, through the chair to the director.

I think you you mentioned that the this bus will be used next Tuesday for St.

Patrick's Day.

So despite the deficiencies, um, you're able to use this command bus now?

Through the chair, yeah, not the way we would like to.

Like I said, the cameras are not working sufficiently cannot marry up with uh the current cameras that we have, but we still utilize the vehicles.

We don't want something um such as this equipment, such as just sitting around.

So we still utilize it for command post um that the officers can come to and uh uh confer and and so we still utilize it, still has this purpose, but we would like to upgrade it to use its full potential.

Okay, thank you.

And then through the chair, um while it is out um, you know, being uh retrofitted for a month, month and a half, um what will you use in its place?

Through the chair, we do not have uh uh a second one as stated before that we have partnerships uh with the county.

County has one uh if if necessary, uh we can use that um as well if it comes to uh a time that we need uh command vehicle, a mobile command vehicle.

Okay, thank you.

That's all.

Okay.

Without any further questions, so my call oh yes, count counsel, go ahead.

Yeah, thank you to the chair.

Uh to the team here.

What is the current um life cycle for this vehicle?

You know that way by chance?

Identify yourself.

Uh just as amended.

Through the chair to the council.

Uh the it's it's tough to decide the current life cycle with the maintenance that we perform at MVM and the way the bus is utilized, we take a lot of pride in making sure that that bus is always up and running, making sure that the systems are always up and running, making sure that there are no outstanding repairs.

Typically it's not out of the question to see a unit like this to last somewhere in the you know 18 to 20 year range.

Uh our current uh excuse me, our previous vehicle was probably somewhere around there before it was replaced.

So with the maintenance that we do on this unit and then especially with these upgrades, we anticipate that this will give us another eight to ten year lifecycle out of this vehicle before having to pursue an additional or a replacement.

Okay, and and with that uh understanding today's price will not be the um 2036 price or 2020 2034 or 2036 price.

And so uh through the chair to the team here, what does it look like for the investment in a capital plan so that we will be prepared strategically to purchase the price or the vehicle which will likely be north of two million dollars?

Through the chair to council member, that's a really great question as part of the assessment that will be done as we we know um from uh Superintendent Garden.

Um he's right uh that uh they do a really good job.

But we also know as as the years progress, um the reports we receive from him and his staff and team will let us know that as we're getting closer to the potential replacement of the vehicles that we'll start um obviously um conferring with finance and others so we can budget for the potential replacement of the uh mobile command vehicle.

Okay.

Okay, thank you.

And it's not about potential.

No, we're gonna have to replace it.

So at these chair, that's correct.

That that's part of things.

No, we have to replace these vehicles.

And so being just prepared, and I know for those of us that have to allocate resources, we need to really start thinking strategically of these things.

Is it capital or is it general fund dollars?

Because I looked in thing I just I don't know what the chair I'm looking at the sub funds it's through capital.

Capital okay thank you thank you is the um we're gonna ask for the you give us um we're gonna make a request what's the mileage on the vehicle um and is it diesel po is it diesel powered if it's diesel powered and it's taken care of that thing should last forever.

So Chair we probably get to the uh mileage right now okay okay without any objection um ordinance number fourteen fifty five twenty twenty five as amended is approved is read.

Thank you.

Committee is adjourned