All right, this committee of finance diversity equity and inclusion is reconvening.

We did have one other guest that's here for development.

We're gonna go ahead and do that part.

This is ordinance number six six two that's twenty twenty-six by council members Davis, Santana, and Griffin by departmental requests and emergency ordinance authorizing the mayor and the commissioner of purchases and supplies to acquire and reconvey properties presently owned by Starline Stone LLC and or its designee located at four oh one Stone's levy for the purpose of entering into the chain of title prior to adoption of tax increment finance financing legislation authorized under section fifty-seven oh nine dot four one of the revised code for the Bed Rock Rock Entertainment Amphitheater Project.

Uh director and your guests.

Uh good afternoon uh to the chair and to the committee.

Um excited to present this project to you.

Uh with me is Nora Romanoff from Bedrock Development.

Uh her and her group are uh leading this uh organization or this development.

Uh and with that, I will get into the slides about this chain of title.

Uh so Starling Stone LLC is an affiliate of Bedrock.

Um, and so they have acquired this property at four oh one Stones Levy, uh, which is on the east bank of the Cuyahoga River, just across West Third Street from the uh Peak Performance Center that has kind of been that first uh construction project as part of the activities uh Bedrock is doing to redevelop the uh riverfront.

Um Cosm is also a project being led by this group, so a lot of activity being driven by Bedrock and the Rock Entertainment Group here in downtown Cleveland.

Uh if you look at the current site conditions, um there's our are a couple existing structures.

Um the easternmost warehouse has been demolished, um, but there are some sort of older industrial um buildings there.

Uh it does have general industry zoning, um, and so this is really sort of if you think about uh the kind of whole riverfront development strategy that Bedrock brought to the city.

This is like one parcel outside of what was originally thought of.

And so that's why we're coming to you today for this chain of title.

Uh basically just expands the geographic scope of the work they're doing down the riverfront.

Um so this project, it's uh tremendously exciting.

Uh, it'll be the construction of a new sixty two hundred seat uh riverfront amphitheater.

Uh this is a uh rendering that was provided to the city planning commission back in April uh kind of gives you an idea of uh the seating, uh the stage, and the layout.

Uh that kind of just describes those uh those things.

Live Nation will uh operate this uh so from uh an economic perspective, hope to be drawing in regional visitors from outside of the city and county to this venue.

Uh and this will create approximately sixty new FTE jobs on three point one million dollars in annual payroll for the city of Cleveland.

Uh and so as the as this piece of kind of the larger TIFF goes, um, we estimate that the thirty-year value of this TIFF would be uh just under ten million dollars, uh and that the benefits uh to uh CMSD would be just over sixteen million dollars.

Uh those jobs would be a boon to the uh income tax base of about seventy-seven thousand dollars a year, uh which leads to a net increase of uh eighteen point three million dollars uh in revenues to the city and CMSD over the course of the term.

Uh in terms of the community benefits uh tied to this.

So this is part of the larger development agreement that the city in Bad Rock uh previously agreed to and was legislated.

Uh and with that came arguably the most robust community benefits agreement.

Uh City of Cleveland has uh been a part of.

And so this will fold into that agreement.

Um with that, I'm happy to turn it over to uh Nora if she would like to add anything uh and answer any questions.

Thank you.

All right, please proceed.

Sure, to uh to the chair and to the committee, good afternoon.

Thank you for having me.

Um to the note on site plan, maybe I'll just provide a little bit of um can site context.

Um in this picture, we're looking at Stone's Levee and West Third Street in the flats.

And so if you can picture the Lorraine Carnegie Bridge, this is just north of the Lorraine Carnegie Bridge and the lower portion of West Third and Stone's Levee, Stone's Levee turns into then the Eagle Bridge, or soon to be.

Um, and that was a portion of the note.

Thank you to Mr.

Bruno for summarizing our project so nicely appreciated.

Um I wanted to also mention that this project, along with our other um efforts down in this area, include um the reconstruction of Stones Levy and Central Avenue, which joins the reconstruction of our portion of West Third Street, and then the re-establishment of the Eagle Bridge, which is currently under construction right now, um, as well as all of the affiliated utilities.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

Uh Councilwoman Santana, you uh moved this to committee at a whole.

Yes, I did it, but through the chair, didn't we hear this in DPS?

Sorry.

Uh to the chair to the councilman.

Uh what was heard in DPS was the request for uh demolition of the 401 Stones Levy building.

I was here for that portion.

Um, and because the TIFF already exists in this area, this is just a drawing of adding one additional acre.

So it's the same area but a different piece of legislation.

Thank you.

All right.

And uh Councilman Casey.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman, Mr.

Chairman to Miss Uh Romanoff or Simperman by Romanov.

Nora.

All right.

Um is this an additional TIF or is this just being added on to the TIFF that's already there?

Uh through the chair to the councilman.

Uh, this is just being added on to the TIFF that's already there, just geography just outside what we already legislated.

Okay, so we're not giving an additional TIFF for this.

This is just part of the TIFF project overall, correct?

Through the chair, correct.

All right, and no surprise the next question is Mr.

Chairman to whomever.

Uh who will be powering this amphitheater.

To the chair to the councilman, Cleveland Public Power.

Ah, there you go.

Thank you very much.

All right, thank you.

Are you any other questions regarding this ordinance 662-2026?

Same other questions, ordinance number six six two-2026 stands approved.

We call this the lightning round.

Thank you.

I'm going to try to cover some ground so that we could try to catch up.

Uh the first ordinance is ordinance number 586-2026, as amended by Council Members Casey and Griffin by Departmental Request, an emergency ordinance to amend the title in sections 1, 2, and 3 of ordinance number 325-2025 passed May 20 May 12, 2025, and the supplement the ordinance by adding new section 1A relating to the Oracle customer care and building system.

Uh is the public utilities folks team here.

I'm trying, man.

Like Sam Jackson said, I'm trying.

I'm trying hard.

We're safety at let's get to cover some ground.

Come on, Director.

Public works, or was it part public works?

Shh.

Geez.

Public works.

Ordinance number 685-2026 by Council members Bishop and Griffin by departmental request and emergency ordinance to supplement the codified ordinances of Cleveland, Ohio, 1976 by enacting new section 131.87 relating to loaned artwork, this public displays for exhibition in City Hall administered by the Department of Public Works.

Director.

Thank you.

Uh Chair.

This piece is uh will allow if we pass this piece will allow us to enter into the kind of board order to support for the city's commitment to promoting public art, showcasing local art artists, and fostering community engagement through cultural and art uh artistic initiatives.

Uh in a nutshell, this is really for us to be able to have the ability to quickly get uh loan proper loan art into the city hall, just like what they do at uh at the airport, uh same kind of ordinance, really, but just to allow us to be able to do that.

In the past, what we've done is try to do a bunch of encumbering kind of agreements over and over, but this would allow us to be able to get art as quickly as possible, move it through and uh in all the things that you see here and done in City Hall.

We've had to put a lot of work in to get those done, but this ordinance would allow us to get access to more art and to be able to get it through quickly.

Thank you.

Uh is Councilman Bishop okay with this.

Uh I did talk with him in the hall, and I said uh he he didn't have an issue with it.

We didn't have a long access of call talk, but we did talk about it.

Okay, he forwarded this to uh he forward this to committee at the host, so I believe he's in support of it.

Okay.

Any other questions regarding ordinance number six eight five dash 2026?

See oh, you got a question?

Councilman Harsh?

Uh Council President Art is great.

Having art in City Hall is even better.

I urge my colleagues for uh expeditious passage and approval of this.

Thank you.

Outstanding it.

Seeing no other questions.

What's that ordinance number?

685.

685-2026 stands approved.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right.

Public utilities.

And then safety is on deck right after public utilities.

Ordinance number 586 2026 as amended by Council members Casey and Griffin by departmental request.

An emergency ordinance to amend the title and sections one, two, and three of ordinance number three two five dash twenty twenty-five passed May 12th, 2025, and to supplement the ordinance by adding new section one A relating to Oracle Customer Care and Building System.

And the amendment states.

If amended as follows.

Number two, in section one, at amended section three, line one, after contracts, insert shall not exceed five million dollars, and in line two, strike and shall be charged against the proper appropriation accounts.

Director.

Thank you, Chairman, members of the committee.

In uh May of 2025, Council gave us the authority to go out and enter into a master agreement with Oracle for our customer care and billing system.

Uh year of negotiations at no um at uh at no way am I being critical of the law department, they negotiated in good faith with Oracle for over a year.

Negotiations failed when they failed to meet some basic city requirements in our contracting and also as a utility, our customer specific data is um sacred to us, so that data is owned by us.

It's not to be shared with anybody.

Oracle could not meet our terms.

So this is an amendment to that previously passed ordinance allowing us to enter into requirement contracts for the various um points in our uh customer care and billing, being hosting and professional services uh with the Oracle system.

So we're staying with Oracle, but because of the multiple branches within Oracle, we're seeking the authority to go out for individual services by way of requirement to realize uh efficiencies in our bidding and enter into these contracts as we progress to our next phase of CCMB, which is the C2M, uh, which is a uh much more customer focused um, which is our ultimate goal.

Thank you, Councilman Casey.

Duly Vedan recommender for passage.

Thank you.

Saying no other questions, ordinance number five.

Uh Councilman Charles Slife.

Thank you.

Quickly uh to the director acting chief.

Congratulations, I guess.

Could you could you one more time state uh what the the law departments and ability to negotiate?

I want that to be said one more time.

So thank you through the chairman of the council members.

So with Oracle under what we thought to be a master service agreement to better serve our customer, the three main points that ended up being us just at an impasse in negotiations, indemnification, uh long-term exclusivity, which is the proprietary nature of these services, and then finally the use of the data.

And the use of the data, that is an internal policy.

How does that align with our own policies and codified ordinances?

Well, any vendor through the chairman of the council member that we use that has customer-specific utility data associated with it, we prohibit them from using it in any other use.

Um it is not a public record under state law.

A uh person's how they consume utilities is sacred and we protect it at all costs.

Um there is tremendous value in the open market, but we will not put our customers through that.

So it is a line that we do not cross.

Okay.

Final question.

Do you know if that's specific to utilities or is that broadly applicable across the entire city?

Uh under state law, the open records law, it is specific to utilities.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Uh seeing no other questions, ordinance number 586-2026 as amended stands approved.

Next up is ordinance number 587-2026 by Councilmembers Casey and Griffin by Departmental Requests and emergency ordinance to amend Section 523.25 of the codified ordinances of Cleveland, Ohio, 1976, as amended by ordinance number 1662-09 passed December 7th, 220 20 2009 relating to interconnection service for distributed generation.

Thank you, Chairman.

And if I if I could request so the there is a companion piece of 588 2026, that's read that into the record.

Thank you.

Uh this is ordinance number 588-2026 by Council members Casey and Griffin by Departmental Request and emergency ordinance to amend Section 523.2026 of the codified ordinances of Cleveland, Ohio, 1976, as amended by ordinance number 1662-09 passed December 7th, 2020 2020 relating to net metering service.

Director.

Thank you, Chairman, members of the committee.

So what we need to do at Cleveland Public Power is address the billing and reliability issues that arise from distributed energy resources that connect to our power grid.

So any of our customers who wish to put power generation, um renewable power generation behind the meter.

We need the ability to continue to promote it, accept it, but then ensure that the rest of our customers are not adversely affected.

So again, we are changing the way in which renewable generation behind the meter on a customer's home, residence, property, or a commercial customer.

Um how it is uh how we bill it and how we apply the costs associated with the availability of the resource to that customer.

Since 2009, we've had an ordinance authorizing what we call net metering.

The net metering um contract or ordinance allowed uh the customer who was producing the power on their premise to get a credit on their bill.

So that credit worked uh for many years, and we do have a number of customers who benefit from it.

The concerns that we're seeing as they continue as the uh amount of requests and those customers who are seeking renewable generation behind the meter, we want to make sure that the rest of our customers are not affected.

So we're going to continue to provide the credit, but that availability of the power, just like any other Cleveland Public Power customer currently pays, is what we're seeking authority to pursue.

That is also so 587 2026 is an is an amendment to codified 52325 and then 588 26, 52326.

Commissioner and our CFO Catherine Troy are here for the details.

Again, our overarching goal is to continue to support renewable generation on our customers premise.

And and that is the mantra we've heard from council, certainly the BIB administration, certainly us as uh the people responsible for the delivery of this service.

Something we want to continue to promote, but we cannot do it to the um disadvantage of other customers who elect not to participate.

Thank you, Councilman Casey.

This was duly vetted both pieces and recommended for passage out of utilities.

Thank you.

Seeing no other questions, ordinance number 587 and 588-2026 stand approved.

Please sign on.

Next up is 596-2026 as amended.

Ordinance number 596-2026 as amended by Council Members Casey and Griffin by Department of Request.

Uh this is an ordinance, an emergency ordinance authorizing the director of public utilities to exercise the first option to renew contract number CT 2002, PS 2024-0299 with one call concepts, utility locating services, Inc.

to provide utility location and marketing underground infrastructure services for the various divisions of the Department of Public Utilities.

Director.

Thank you, Chairman.

Oh, let me read the amendment.

I apologize.

I guess I got to read the amendment.

This let there is no legal objection to this legislatement is if amended as follows.

One in section one line two after year insert not to exceed two million dollars.

This was dated 71 2026 signed by Vishnu Ganglani, uh assistant director of law uh director.

Thank you, Chairman.

Under Ohio revis revised code 3781, Ohio's damage prevention law requires all owners of underground utilities to mark their infrastructure within 48 hours of notification as mandated by the Ohio Utilities Protection Service called OOPS.

DPU digs holes, over 170,000 per year.

We utilize this contract to not only mark when we dig, but mark when other people dig around our stuff.

It's uh very important.

Um we have this vendor specifically that we're asking for this option year has proven to to to meet our needs.

Uh if not um in a very timely manner, even on those emergency uh scenarios where we ask for immediate markings, they have been responsive, and we are pleased with the services they're providing, thereby asking for this option year in the amount of approximately 1.8 million dollars.

Council McCasey.

Do we voting recommend it for passage out of utilities?

Thank you.

Seeing no other questions, ordinance number 596-2026 as amended stands approved, please sign on.

Next ordinance is ordinance number 598-2026 by Council members Casey and Griffin by Department of Request, an emergency ordinance authorizing the director of public utilities to exercise the second option to renew contract number CT 2002 PS 2024-277 with Kendrill Inc.

to provide professional services for hosting and hosting support for the Oracle Customer Care and Billing System.

Director.

Thank you, Chairman.

Uh so Kindrel is uh associated with the first ordinance that we heard this afternoon with the Oracle piece.

Kindred used to be IBM, now into Oracle.

We're seeking the one year extension, uh, which does require uh additional legislative authority again associated with our customer billing, meter reading and meter inventory, customer appointments, and the related reporting therein.

Uh, we're asking for the extension, which is an anticipated cost for one year to be $684,000.

Thank you.

Councilman Casey.

Julie Vader recommended for passage.

Thank you.

Seeing no other questions, ordinance number 598-2026 stands approved.

Next is ordinance number 599-2026 by Council members Casey and Griffin by departmental request, an emergency ordinance authorizing the director of public utilities to enter into one or more requirement contracts without competitive bidding with HAP Company to provide laboratory equipment, supplies, and services for operation, calibration, preventive maintenance, appropriation, appropriate repairs, and to certify accuracy of laboratory and inline process equipment used to test drinking water that is manufactured by the Hawk Company for the Division of Water Department of Public Utilities for a term of two years.

Director.

Thank you, Chairman.

A number of the components and parts that we have in our water distribution system are manufactured by Hawk.

This or this used to be two ordinances.

We put it into one because it is specific to those components, both in the purchasing of the laboratory supplies, all of those things associated with the hundreds of tests we do on a daily, weekly, monthly, annual basis that are all regulated by the Ohio EPA by and through the US EPA.

Um, not only again as the supplies, but the calibration and the certification of the equipment that's performing the tests.

They submit the reports to the Ohio EPA to make to ensure that we remain in compliance.

There's a lot of uh machines that do a lot of cool stuff that's in the year executive summary, Chairman.

Thank you, Councilman Casey.

Julie Veteran recommended for passage out of utilities.

Thank you.

Seeing no other questions, ordinance number 599-2026 stands approved.

Please sign on.

Next ordinance is ordinance number six zero zero-2026 as amended by Council Members Casey and Griffin by departmental request.

An emergency ordinance authorizing the director of public utilities to enter into one or more contracts with ST Engineering Telematics Wireless LTD for the hosting of technical support required to manage the bright city lighting system, including cloud migration, remote control, and monitoring for the division of Cleveland Public Power, Department of Public Utilities for a period of three years.

Director.

Thank you, Chairman.

Bright City is the system by which, upon the conversion to the LED street lights, which had a positive impact on every neighborhood in the city of Cleveland.

This is the technology that is every day getting better.

Currently, I wouldn't say that it is uh perfect because we continue to convert up until July of this year.

Uh specifically along Opportunity Corridor with the 480 volt.

Council's well aware of the difficulties we had with the smart photo cells.

We are now there into conversion.

We are updating the information in Bright City.

We look to continue to utilize this resource to know when the street light is out before council calls us.

That's our goal.

We're moved we're moving inch by inch every day to get better at it, and an important part of it is Bright City.

This is the hosting and the technical support of the Bright City lighting system, anticipated approximately $30,000 per year.

Thank you.

And uh there's uh the amendment states there is no legal objection to this legislation if amended as follows.

One in section two at the end, insert the director of public utilities shall provide written notice to the clerk of council whenever any purchases made through the cooperative process, which notice shall include the details of such cooperative purchases.

This was dated 7 14 2026 by Alejandro Gonzalez, assistant director of law.

I think Councilman Conwell had a question first.

Councilman Conwell.

Yeah, I'm gonna um I support it and I support it in the utilities, but to the chair to the director, you guys got to cut back some of the vegetation on the trees, and your lights some time.

When I'm riding the neighborhood at night, ready now when lights are out.

Oh, you got it.

Some of your lights are off and on, and whatever the case may be.

But you it still look dark, and you know why.

Yeah, chairman of the councilman.

I mean, vegetation management is a big part of what we do, and thanks to council support.

We currently do have uh not only the in-house forestry crews, but we do have outside vendors that support us.

It's a constant struggle, right?

We we try to be cognizant of the aesthetic nature of the street and not adversely affect how a street looks and make sure the lights are bright enough to illuminate the streets.

So it's it's something we work on.

Hopefully, the flashing flickering has been resolved by the 480 volt conversion, which has been successfully implemented.

Um, but although we're that's not gonna be reflected in Bright City.

Those are unfortunately going to be the routine maintenance, and um there's no uh there's no perfect solution to it.

So I imagine you're gonna continue to ride the streets and call us with some street some lights, but yeah, we're gonna get better every day.

Yeah, yeah, you write about that.

And vegetation and trees block the light.

Yes, sir.

So people can't see.

So thank you.

That's not an council president.

All right, thank you.

Uh Councilman Casey, duly vetted.

This was duly vetted recommended for passage out of utilities.

Thank you.

Seeing all the questions, ordinance number six zero zero-2026 as amended stands approved.

Next ordinance is ordinance number six zero one-2026 as amended by council members Casey and Griffin by departmental requests and emergency ordinance demand determining the method of making the public improvement of constructing a new pump station and ground level tank at the Pleasant Valley Road Station and demolishing and removing the existing station and tank, authorizing the director of public utilities to enter into one or more public improvement contracts to construct the improvement, acquiring, accepting, and recording necessary rights of way, authorizing the director to employ one or more professional consultants necessary for the improvement, and authorizing the director of public utilities and or director of finance to apply for and accept one or more water supply revolving loan account loans, grants, and other funding.

This is amended, and uh there is no legal objection to this legislation if amended as follows.

One in section one line four, the improvement insert at an estimated cost not to exceed 20 million dollars.

And number two, in section five, at the end, insert the director of public utilities shall provide written notice to the clerk of council and the utilities, committee chair, whenever any purchases made under this section, which notice shall include the details of any such cooperative purchases.

Number three, in section twelve, starting in line six strike, and from the other funds approved by the director of finance, and this is dated 7-1 2026 by Vishnu Ganglani, the assistant director of law.

Director.

Thank you, Chairman Pleasant.

Uh Cleveland Water has four water treatment plants, 12 secondary pump stations.

Recently completed a focused assessment on the secondary booster uh pump stations and programmed critical needed improvements, including Pleasant Valley Pump in Parma serves third high.

Um, cities of Parma, North Royalton, Broadview Heights, Brexville, Hinckley, Richfield, Richfield Township, and Bath constructed in the 50s, 16 million gallons per day capacity.

Um it's also a on-site is a five million gallon underground concrete reservoir.

That reservoir and part of this improvement is of critical need to us.

The it is um inefficient, being an underground concrete reservoir that holds this tremendous amount of potable water.

So the design and construction will include moving that above ground in all likelihood to better flow in the system.

Um we have had some uh preliminary conversations about the not to exceed uh chairman, and and all due respect that was on the construction crack contracts.

We try to put in the executive summary what we think it will cost.

Um not necessarily the high end of what it could cost given the the unique nature of today's construction not only in utilities in anything, but also um it's been a very long time since we constructed a ground level water tank.

So the estimates that we put into the executive summary were 15 million, and the not to exceed was 20 million.

Certainly appreciated council's feedback, but if there were an opportunity, what we don't want to happen is to go out to bid, design it in-house, go out to bid, and the numbers come in more than 20 million.

We'd have to start over.

So if there were an opportunity to discuss that here at the table, and I apologize I didn't get it done beforehand, but um that would be my only request, Chairman.

Thank you.

Councilman Casey.

Uh Mr.

Chairman, in the amendment, the right that you have in front of you, does it state 20 or 25 million?

It was 20.

Okay, because here okay.

So I'll make the amendment in section one, line six after the improvement, insert an estimated cost not to exceed 25 million dollars.

As opposed to 20.

Do I have a second to that amendment to move?

Councilman Polensk has seconded.

Is there any discussion?

I'll call the question.

Uh all in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

The ayes have it.

Therefore, the amendment carries.

Anything else, Councilman Casey.

No, it was duly vetted and recommended for passage.

Thank you.

Seeing no other questions.

Ordinance number six zero one dash twenty twenty-six as amended stands approved.

The next ordinance is ordinance number six zero two-2026 as amended by Council Members Casey and Griffin by departmental request, an emergency ordinance determining the method of making the public improvement of inspecting, repairing, renewing, and or replacing transmission, water mains, valves, and appurtens, and making corrosion control inspections and improvements as part of the transmission water main renewal and corrosion prevention and control program for from 2027 through 2031, authorizing one or more professional consultants for the improvements and to apply for and accept additional funding.

Director, oh let me read the amendment.

The amendment states there's no legal objection to this legislation if amended as follows.

One in section one, line six, after the improvement, insert at an estimated cost not to exceed 25 million dollars, 25 million 25 million dollars.

Number two, in section five, at the end, insert the director of public utilities shall provide written notice to the clerk of council and the utilities committee chairs, chair whenever any purchase is made under this sub under this section, which notice shall include the details of any such cooperative purchases.

Number three, in section 10, starting in line six strike, and from other funds approved by the director of finance.

Thank you, Chairman.

As uh councils were well aware, the division of water has um infrastructure all out all throughout the region.

I don't need to go into any of that, but a lot of it includes steel and iron assets and the number one primary contributor to deterioration is corrosion.

This authority uh requested under this ordinance um would allow us to go out and seek continue our cathodic protection corrosion control mitigation plan throughout the division of water to sustain reliability.

Um we it analyzes that not only the trunk mains valves throughout the distribution system but in the water plants themselves, and then puts the appropriate mitigation together to either replace perform the cathodic protection, which is essentially putting a sacrificial metal next to or near.

So the corrosion attacks that before it attacks our necessary infrastructure to move potable water.

It has proven successful in a number of big projects and small projects throughout the distribution network, seeking authority to move forward with this and the anticipated cost through the 2027-2031 time frame is 22 million dollars.

Thank you, Councilman Casey.

Julie vetted recommended for passage out of utilities.

Thank you.

Seeing no questions, ordinance number 602-2026 as amended stands approved.

Next ordinance is ordinance number 612-2026 as amended by Council Members Casey and Griffin by departmental request and emergency ordinance authorizing the director of public utilities to enter into one or more requirement contracts without competitive bidding with ST Engineering Telematics Wireless LTD for proprietary adoptive control photo sales needed for LED street lights and securing lighting lighting fixtures for the division of Cleveland Public Power, Department of Public Utilities for a term of two years.

The amendment states there's no legal objection to this legislation if amended as follows.

One in section one after public utilities insert at an estimated cost not to exceed one million dollars.

Number two, in section two line two, strike the proper appropriation accounts and insert fund number 58 SF001.

This was dated 71 2026 by Vishnu Ganglani, Assistant Director of Law.

Director.

Thank you, Chairman.

These are the actual fixtures of the LED streetlight project.

So it the uh ST telematics was originally a subcontractor to Siemens, which was the prime in the conversion that began back in 2017.

The important part about the fixtures is they have a 10-year warranty from time of installation.

And as I had testified earlier on 600 2026, we continued to install specifically along Opportunity Corridor, the 400 volt, um, the 480 volt smart photo cells as recently as this month.

So we're looking to continue that uh relationship with ST telematics to continue to replace and maintain the adequate amount of inventory to uh to re repair uh when people continue to hit our polls, but that's for another day, and also to take advantage of the 10-year warranty, approximately 400,000 a year.

Thank you.

Uh Councilman Casey.

Duly vetted recommended for passage.

All right, thank you.

Seeing no other questions, ordinance number six twelve dash twenty twenty-six as amended stands approved.

Next is ordinance number six twenty-one-2026 as amended by Council Members Casey and Griffin by departmental request and emergency ordinance to enact new section 523-252 of the codified ordinances of Cleveland, Ohio, 1976 relating to interconnection into the division of Cleveland, division of Cleveland Public Powers Electric System by qualifying facilities, by qualifying facilities, eligible large commercial customers, and eligible large industrial customers, and authorizing related arguments.

The amendments are there is no legal objection to this legislation if amended as follows.

One in section five twenty-three-dot two five two at Division C1A in the fourth paragraph at the end and at Division C1B.

In the second paragraph at the end, insert the director of public utilities shall provide written notice to the clerk of council and the utilities committee chair whenever any purchase purchase is made under this section, which notice shall include the details of any such cooperative purchases in both places.

Two in section five two three dot two five two after division C1C insert new division C1D to read as follows.

D, in quotations, prior to entering any contracts authorized under this section, the director of public utilities shall provide written notice to the clerk of council, which notice shall include the details of such contract.

Number three, in new section 523.252 at division C2, in the last paragraph, line two, after accepted, insert the matching funds appropriated.

Thank you, Chairman.

Um in the division of Cleveland Public Power specifically, we receive interconnection requests from both qualifying facilities, large commercial and industrial off takers under the federal law, which is the public utility regulatory policies act.

We call it PERPA.

Um under PERPA, any of these qualifying facilities, large commercial or industrial customers can request interconnection into our grid.

What this ordinance is seeking is an amendment to the codifieds, which will define more clearly the process and key terms for the interconnectors, the application to the application for the interconnection process and related reviews and approvals.

More importantly, it allows the division of Cleveland Public Power to charge that interconnector, that person applying to connect to the grid or entity, whatever.

We can accept the funding for the necessary studies to comply with federal law.

So company A or developer A or building B wants to connect to our grid, we say that's fine.

Here's the process that's defined in the codifieds.

Here's the amount of money that you need to give us in order to perform the load studies and the design engineered studies and the process for interconnecting, connecting to our grid in order to do to provide the service.

So what we're trying to do is establish the best practices and interconnection that do not adversely affect any customer of Cleveland Public Power before they can go to the federal government and connect under their rules without our participation.

So in any necessary improvements for that interconnection, also called called for in this codified um uh change or amendments, they would pay for those necessary improvements in order to connect.

Again, our goal is to protect our current customers while attracting new customers and complying with federal law before they dictate the terms on us.

Thank you, Councilman Casey.

This was a big one, Mr.

Chairman, and we've been talking about this for a couple of years now, but it's finally duly vetted and recommended for passage out of out of uh utilities.

All right, thank you.

Uh seeing no questions, ordinance number 621-2026 as amended stands approved.

And last but not least for public utilities, ordinance number 625-2026, as amended by Council Members Casey and Griffin by departmental requests, an emergency ordinance authorizing the purchase by one or more requirement contracts of labor and materials needed to repair, maintain, and replace water mains, fire hydrants, service connections, valves and appurtens, including tree lawn restoration and other repairs for the division of water, one or more requirement contracts for labor and materials needed for pavement restoration, including installation of the divisions of water, water pollution control, and Cleveland Public Power.

Department of Public Utilities for a period of up to two years, and to apply for and accept any loans or grants from any public or private entity.

Number two, in section two, at the end, insert the director of public utilities shall provide written notice to the clerk of council and the utilities committee chairs whenever any purchases made under this section, which notice shall include the details of any such cooperative purchases.

Number three, in section 10, line nine, strike, and from the other funds approved by the director of finance.

Dated 7-1, 2026, signed Vishnu Ganglani, Assistant Director of Law.

Director.

Thank you, Chairman.

This is essentially our staff augmentation ordinance where we go out and seek outside contractors to support us, typically in tight times of extreme weather and excessive breaks, as council is well aware, especially in the last 12 months, what we go from an average of five breaks today to north of 30.

Um we we don't have the staff or the equipment to accommodate 30 water main breaks a day.

So therefore we break it up by geographical area, typically four areas uh throughout the counties that we serve, and we get contractors to support our existing staff.

That is what we call our contract assistance.

This is the ordinance that gives us the authority to go out to bid to seek these contractors to assist us in the performance of our duties.

Um of which do expire uh this year, which is why we're hearing it at committee of the whole.

Um, those are things like service connections, valves, water mains, hydrants, tree lawn restoration is also part of our CA contract.

Um again, it's uh it's an important part of what we do and how we deliver service, and we're seeking authority to continue that approach.

Thank you.

Uh councilman Casey.

Julie uh vetted and recommended for passage.

All right, thank you so much.

Uh do we have any questions?

Seeing no questions, ordinance number 625-2026 uh stands approved.

Um I know we uh uh packed schedule today.

I'll give you a call.

I just want to update on the uh a water main break on uh Buckeye, and I'll just give you a call after this, okay?

Very good.

Mr.

Mike Mike got to get his pound of flesh, Marty.

Chairman McMinneby, very brief to the uh to the director and to the commissioner.

Um I've been no Cleveland Public Power.

I've been notified by some of the business in the Waterloo Arts District.

They've been in contact with some folks on the West Side due to the growing concerns that they have the businesses that are being impacted by the CPP power outages.

We know not just CPP has been affected, but we know First Energy has been affected as well.

We've seen just recently.

But their concern about the repeated power outages and they indicate it is going to be a meeting, some type of meeting being held.

Are you aware of any meeting that is being scheduled with the CPP and the city and businesses from the east side and the west side to talk about issues with Cleveland Public Power?

Chairman, so the council member, I am aware of a meeting called by um councilman Davis on I think next week, specific to the um the uh businesses and residents in in the ward.

Obviously, what we do is we meet with our customers.

So if there is a request in there through the chairman to the councilman respectfully, then we are uh certainly open to it.

It's it's the benefit of a locally owned utility is that uh we live here and we suffer the outages just like everybody else, like yesterday for six hours.

Uh, and I don't have the benefit of CPP.

So we are open to uh meet anywhere, any time.

So this is not like a more of a citywide meeting at your talk.

Chairman of the councilman, that's correct.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Uh Councilwoman House Jones wanted to uh me to at least um mention to you because of the frequent power outages.

Have you guys researched any um public utilities uh community resiliency hubs in order to try to have backup plans whenever we have these power outages?

Chairman to the council members.

So we have had two meetings now with um other departments in the city and also other partners in the communities uh by way of food assistance and um charging stations, and if we have an outage isolated into a neighborhood, is there a different way we can talk about the cooling centers?

Maybe it doesn't meet the heat threshold, but maybe we give an opportunity.

As council's well aware, it's very infrequent where an outage is specific to a neighborhood for an extended period of time.

The July 4th weekend was awful on all accounts for all customers, both sides of the city in a in a in this the worst time that it could happen.

Um so we're gonna prepare for that to happen again.

We're gonna hope and pray that it never does again, but we're gonna look at every outage and try to learn something.

The answer is short answer to your question is yes.

There are efforts underway to better coordinate not only communications but partnerships with council and with those community members to serve our customers in a time of need.

Councilman House Jones with that sufficient answer, or do you want to get more information?

So, Councilman, if you could um I mean Councilman, of course.

Yes, Councilman uh Conla.

Yes.

Um the 4th of July to the chair.

I've caught you on several holidays and council member Mike Polency and I.

We hit Easter weekend, isn't it right, Council uh as well as Memorial Day weekend.

They tear our phones up, and you know who they turn around and blame me and Councilmember Mike Palency.

And to the point, and I and I yield.

One lady when driving my policy ward and said, My mic lights were on, and mine was out.

Isn't that right, Mike?

Councilmember Mike Palency.

They went riding both of the wards.

And uh so we need help with that, especially with uh Labor Day coming.

It's gonna be huge.

The last summer holiday, and that's all I have to say on that.

Thank you.

All right, thank you, Councilman.

All right.

Uh thank you, public utilities.

Seeing other questions, or that ordinance stands approved.

Thank you so much.

Public safety.

The first ordinance that we will hear, and I want to make sure that I preface this with this.

We have had more than eight hours worth of hearings on this topic.

We are not trying to re-litigate this and re-hear this.

There has been uh two four-hour meetings, over four hour meetings regarding this topic.

We have heard a plethora of public comment.

We have heard from pros, cons.

We have heard from uh several other people.

I believe that Councilman Policy has done a great job of really trying to hear all sides of this, and I think he has done a great job of really trying to uh reach a reach some some guardrails that we feel comfortable with as council.

And uh we also um have made some concessions about making sure that we have a six-month turnaround.

I know that that's not going to be comfortable for a lot of people.

We see this as a transition opportunity where we're actually trying to uh make sure that we use this brief pause and and know why this uh system is continuing to look in order while we continue to look at the system to look at best practices as well as um do further research to see if there's more guardrails, other things that we need to do, as well as if there are other companies or products that will compete for this tool.

Uh so I'm saying all of that to say that there's been a lot of discussion on this.

Um we're gonna have one last glance over from the finance committee.

I stated before everybody got here that the finance committee is the one that will be making a recommendation or non-recommendation regarding this uh specific piece of legislation, and then the full body will vote on it uh at the uh at the hearing at the meeting tonight.

Okay.

This is ordinance number 683-2026 as amended by Mayor Bibb and emergency ordinance authorizing the director of public safety to enter into one or more contracts with Flock Group, Inc.

DBA Flock Safety for the acquisition and or renewal of the annual license and the professional services of maintenance for flock safety automated license plate reader solution for the division of police, department of public safety for a period of one year.

Now, we made some amendments once again.

I'm not gonna read through all of these amendments because they are lengthy, uh, but the amendments are on your tablets.

But the amendments are on your tablets.

So hopefully all of the council members got a chance to look at all the amendments and uh be able to look at all of them and uh be able to um address them as we discuss this legislation.

So once again, I'm giving the director an opportunity to do this.

We are not trying to rehash the litigation.

We're asking the fiscal questions now about how this is going to work, and then I will um appropriately um lead off after the presentation from the director with the chair of public safety so that he can outline exactly um his process and how this um is going to uh and and uh the amendments that he made so that we can all understand.

Once again, the amendments are on your tablets for council to deliberate.

The public has deliberated.

We have heard public comment.

This is now council's time to debate and have this conversation and make a recommendation or not regarding this legislation.

Thank you, uh Director.

Thank you, uh Chair and also Council President and uh Council members.

Uh as stated before, this is uh ordinance uh 683-2026.

Please speak up some, sir.

Uh, this is uh ordinance number 683-2026 uh for the flock license plate reader extension of the contract.

We're asking for council extend this contract to give us the opportunity to to put out a RF put out an RFP for um for a vendor uh for this particular solution and other solutions uh stated before it's been vetted.

Uh we've uh had two committee meetings.

Um the division of police uh has put safeguards in place relative to this particular product, uh, understanding and taking consideration Fourth Amendment uh rights.

Um the safeguards in place are are we thought uh we are no longer involved in the national lookup.

Uh they are cannot uh check for immigration status as well as reproductive rights.

Uh we have accountability measures in place uh for this particular product and all products.

Um we hold our our our officers and civilian employees accountable uh for usage of this system and at the table with me uh to answer any questions from the council members to my left is uh Larry Jones, Commissioner Larry Jones.

Um he's gonna head up the RFP process.

Uh we offline we outlined, which I believe uh each council member has the timeline, a proposed timeline uh for this uh RFP.

To my immediate right is uh uh assistant director Jason Shachner to his right, uh Chief Todd from the division of police.

We also have other members with us uh to answer questions again that the council members may have.

I'd like to turn it over to the Chiefs briefly again.

She's gonna outline some of the uh safeguards and other things that have in place, and then we'll be ready for questions.

Thank you, Chief Todd.

Good afternoon, council members.

Uh so as the director stated, we do have uh filters in place now that currently restrict access to our system.

Uh we are just using the system locally here.

We shut off the uh our partner agencies having the ability to access our system.

We want to make sure there are safeguards in place that our citizens' information is not being shared.

Uh I just want to give one quick update.

I know we addressed a lot of things at the last council meeting, but from a law enforcement perspective, uh, just two nights ago, we've had issues with the closed CMSD buildings with a group of urban explorers that have been going into those buildings.

And on Monday night, again, we had um a group of urban explorers who had gone into um two of our locations, Kenneth Bennett Boys Academy and Euclid Park School.

Uh with that, we were able to capture the video of their vehicle leaving, including the license plate.

And with the assistance of our real-time crime center and our flock license plate readers, we were able to identify the vehicle that was involved.

Officers from the Fifth District were responding back to the district and heard an audible alarm coming from Collinwood High School.

They responded over there and saw that vehicle that was identified, and they were able to um capture and arrest three individuals who had broken into three schools.

So when we look at how license plate readers are used in our city, it could be anything from something like this to a homicide investigation to a hit skip to a missing person.

So the technology itself is very important to the work we do.

And again, we are just asking for an opportunity to look for the best resource for our city.

Okay.

Anyone else want to add anything?

Okay.

Um before I turn it over to Councilman Palency, just a couple of things.

Is that what you mean when you cut off access to some of your partners that the national lookup system?

Because it's my understanding that other cities that used to have agreements with federal government agencies like ICE were able to use their access to be able to access that on behalf of organizations like ICE and others.

Is that loophole and is that door closed?

To the chair, yes.

Okay.

And is that the new um safeguard where you say that your partners don't have access anymore?

To the chair, that's correct.

Okay.

Are there any other uh things that we could um do in order to make sure that we protect the access so that uh people don't have their civil rights violated or their information given or anything else?

Uh to the chair, not only have we should we put those filters in place to block access, um, also the searches internal in our department require crime codes attached.

And they are also our, you know, um we have an audit feature in place to track what they're being searched for.

So we have filters in place to block other people from accessing it, and strict filters in place for what our members can use it for.

Okay, and I believe one of the amendments that I know our attorney uh attorney Scalish is here today.

I know that one of the amendments, and I I want to commend uh Councilman Palency and Councilman Joe Jones, I believe, that we increase the fines that if somebody does violate that agreement with us, then there are significant fines that we have in place too.

Is that correct?

That's correct.

Okay.

Um do you keep data on how many um I don't know if I want to say hits, but how many cars or how many uh vehicles or whatever do you how do you how do you quantify, not just qualify, because there's a lot of anecdotal evidence, and one of the things that I have our commander Sean Smith, who does a great job of helping me understand how technology has led to solving certain things and how tips have might might have led to certain things.

Um but do you keep the quantifiable data that actually show how many of these cases were solved with these tools or um or those kind of things as well, like that, so that it's not just anecdotal but actual quantifiable?

Uh to the chair, that's a little harder to quantify because it's just a part of the investigation.

Uh what we do, um, I know that the county prosecutor and our homicide detectives and other detectives came here to the table to give examples of.

Um, but this is just another tool that our investigators use.

It's not the final arresting um portion for a crime that occurred.

But what we've been trying to do is make sure that the reports reflect when the cameras were used or license plate readers were used and our computer dispatch as well to have that because it's just part of the tools.

It's just one, you know, just like the shot spotter alert or anything else.

It's just one of those things.

So we did not have a specific tracking mechanism in place, but we're trying to um make sure it's documented more often.

Are there best practices that we might be able to use to do better tracking, like how many, I can just off the top of my head think about how many investigations were initiated using these tools.

I mean, that should be something like that where we actually work with maybe urban AI to be able to try to talk about how we can actually put tracking in place to be able to show uh spatial as well as geographyographical uh kind of um initiations of investigations, et cetera, et cetera.

Is there a way to look at best practices and things like that that might be helpful?

And to the chair, I know public safety can speak a little bit more, but they're working on a transparency portal which probably will cover a lot of what you're asking.

That'd be great because I know we moved to a while ago to open data.

And one of the things that I think would be very helpful with this tool is if we actually use the open data tool that we have in order so that residents and everyone else could see what um tools have been, I mean how these investigations have been initiated.

But um it looks like Mr.

Shatner is uh assistant director Shachner is going to be commenting on this.

Thank you, uh Council President.

Um without referring back to the memo previously giving about some of the challenges in obtaining data um through police reports.

Um just generally police reports are not written in a way, the narrative portions are not written in a way to for research purposes, right?

The purpose is to document their investigation ongoing to preserve uh evidence so you the investigation so you can look back for prosecution later.

Um I did reach out, I I've read several studies involving LP ALPRs and how those researchers looked at police reports and other uh statistics to try and figure out try to quantify how much LPRs do contribute to case solve rates.

And one um professor did um reach back out because I had questions for him about his particular research, which he did, and I mentioned it in the memo was uh large-scale L ALPR deployment in Charleston, uh South Carolina.

Um and what he had to do, it was about a hundred and eighty-three thousand dollar project um that involved.

Sorry, I'm wearing classes, so I could barely see anything.

Uh, three professors and three graduate students, um, which took place, they had interview and focus groups with the officers early in the project because they had to determine um how the LPRs were used and how they were documented.

And now, in order to figure out where they were in reports, is they had to think about all the possible search terms to use to pick them up in reports, because some put them in as LPRs, some ALPR, some put them in, just put license plate readers, some put license plate search.

And then there's another complication where a lot of times officers just put in the lead that they've received, not how they got the lead in the first place in the report, because it's just long story short, it took many hours, many weeks, and actual looking at the context of each report, because it might be mentioned in the report but have nothing to do with the investigation, or it might not be mentioned in the report at all and had everything to do with investigation.

It's um and we well developed might have to help him out directly.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

It's good, he just did that like through like the new glass prescription is throwing off.

Yeah, I know.

It's awful.

I want to make sure the numbers are right.

Yeah, yeah, right, right.

But the thing is, it does take a lot of effort to try, and a lot of um police uh researchers and law enforcement researchers have difficulty with the research because of the nature of police work, is just not one lead, just not one tool that contributes and how to quantify how much that tool.

Long story short is we do have an arm records management system.

We could look at it a way where if a certain technology is used that a check mark or button has to be clicked.

So it would be difficult to do a look back period um because that was not implemented, but going forward, that is certainly something that can be implemented so we could better be able to measure the efficacy of all police technology.

And you got a comment, Director, because I was just going to say that.

That was it.

That you know, that uh assistant director Scheckner had on.

Uh, we have the capacity capability outside informed through our uh current RMS system, which is a new armor system to actually uh track the exactly what you're asking for.

And that's good to know because that's where I was going with this, and I'm going to fall very short in saying this, but I really think that we shouldn't just stop at flock and at quantifying how we look up and look in investigations as this council deliberates where we want to make the most and most critical investments, it'd be good to see which tools are actually efficient.

Um actually, I think councilwoman House Jones has brought up several times.

Okay, show me the data to show how we're making this this this work.

And I'm not trying to steal her thunder, I'm just she's gonna have a chance to defeat it.

But I think we should quantify everything.

Um leads, for example.

Leads is used a lot in order to um track, and I know that there has been officers that have actually been disciplined or and or fired and brought up on charges for misusing leads.

Um I think body cameras that several officers um use, you know.

Um, you know, you have dashboard cameras, you have other private cameras, and um uh, you know, data is coming from everywhere, and it'll be good not just from a standpoint to try to proof the to show proof of concept, but also to show where are the most critical investments needed and who is actually being successful at these.

I happen to think ShotSpotter has been very successful because once again, um officer uh Smith, uh Commander Smith, whenever he sends us uh update, he'll tell this is how we were notified.

We were notified via shot spotter, we were notified.

So, really I hope that um working with uh your chair, because I always um I I try to be a master delegator, uh, you know, working with your chair to really try to sit down and talk about how we can put together a good set of metrics and look at best practices like assistant director Shatner said like Charleston, South Carolina, where we not only just look at fluck, but we look at all of our tools and how are they being utilized and are they efficient and everything else.

Um I will tell everybody that this has been a national debate.

I just came back from the National League of Cities with my colleague Councilman Brian Casey and every major city of all people they had me doing AI panel.

Uh but they all major cities are dealing with this kind of struggle.

Um how do we make sure we protect people's civil liberties?

Um I think what ICE is doing is deplorable and horrible and and and totally um to be quite frankly the federal the the the president's federal uh hit squad.

And I I say that with no shame.

Um and I think that we have to protect our citizens, but we also have to protect our citizens.

And um I would tell you when I go to community meetings with the Fourth of July and the weekend that we had, uh the people in my neighborhood have overwhelmingly supported um whatever technology we can to be able to deal with street shutdowns, missing people, crimes and everything else.

So I'll I'll digress from there.

The only last thing I want to say is do you have to have a warrant in order to have access to this information?

For sure, you do not need a warrant.

You do not need a warrant.

So this is along the lines with leads, pretty much around the same type of accessibility where you don't necessarily have to have a warrant, but there's very strict rules to guide the um the usage of that tool.

Am I correct?

Uh Chief Todd.

That's correct, sir.

Okay.

Councilman Pulency, the ball's in your court, and then I have Charles Slife, Councilman Brian Casey, Harsh.

I got everybody.

Mr.

Chairman, I'll let my colleagues go, then I'll wrap it up.

Okay, so Councilman Politic has decided to be the closer in this one.

Uh so therefore I will start out with um majority uh whip, Charles Slife, and then if the majority leader, majority leader were also like that.

So I apologize.

Majority leader always gets first, and then majority whip, and then we'll go down the line.

Ha ha Charlie.

Wait your turn.

Thank you.

First of all, I want to say um to the chair to the safety team that I I heard the long four hour hearing.

Um, so I do want to thank my colleagues.

Um first of all for sticking up for the immigrant um community.

So as a Latina, I'm the only Latin on here.

There's been a lot of eyes and a lot of emails and communication, right?

Um I serve 43% Hispanic, mostly Puerto Rican Americans, citizens.

I want to put that out there.

However, the fear of the technology and our data being shared, it's a real thing, right?

So while many think that it's easy to vote for me, it's not because at one end I have increased crime in my neighborhood.

I've had homicides, I have burglaries, just like right, the whole city of Cleveland is experiencing it is increasing in my neighborhood.

I've been there my whole life and I've never seen it as bad as it is.

However, on the other end, I do serve Latino community who are worried, right?

And one of the things that I try not to do is kind of buy into any message that is sent to me about ICE, right?

Like I I need to prove it.

I need pictures because we also know that the you know the marshals are out there, we know that they're you know, they have drug busts.

But just this last couple weeks, I have proven that ICE is in our neighborhood.

And I have videos and I have um photos of random stops of a Puerto Rican citizen on 65th in Denison, which is now councilwoman Hudson's area.

Um and it was disheartening to actually see that.

And I did call second district, they had no idea the ICE.

And you know what, they don't have to notify you guys, right?

And you guys know that I've been meeting with you about ICE and the and you know, preparing for the um for ice to target our area.

We haven't really come to some solutions, but you guys did give me your words that you guys are not working with ice.

So, anyhow, to come to um a vote, I wanted to put I want to hear from my residents because it's been a 50-50 back and forth um debate in our neighborhood, and I just kind of want to share as soon as I can get in here.

I don't know why it's not so we put out a survey, um, and it was about 311 respondents.

48% were opposed, and 43% supported flock.

Very close, right?

Um what I realized is that people are not opposing the LPRs, right?

Or cameras.

It's the fear of our data being shared.

And I know the through the chair, I know that chief said maybe the filter was shut down maybe a few weeks ago, or when was that filter shutdown?

So the um we put filters in place last year.

We shut down the national database.

Um it's been three, four weeks, or the in the local, we cut everyone off.

Got it.

Okay, so it should have never been in place prior to that, right?

And I think what's happening is because that information was out there, because it was an option before, because what we're seeing on social media on the news, people do not trust FLOC.

It's not about public safety, it's about they don't trust Flock and they don't trust what are could happen with our data.

And let's be honest, FBI in our new administration, they don't care.

They break the law all the time.

And when they want to target a neighborhood, they're going to do it.

And if they have to access that flock, I don't trust, and our residents don't trust that they won't be able to access that data.

So through the chair, to anyone who could answer, is it can you guarantee me that third parties are not going to access this data?

So to the chair, I think that um, you know, we have shut everything off.

They have told us that this can't be accessed.

And I think that was part of the amendments that were made for if they violate that they would be fined.

That was part of the you know, promise.

At this point, we are looking for the extension to not lose the technology and to put that RFP out.

Um that's what we're looking for to see what else is out there, because right now we're only using this system internally to our city.

Um, so we're not on the national database.

We shut off all of the filters related to ICE last year.

Um, but we are not using it beyond our city, and that's what we're looking for.

What technology is out there that is just here locally that we don't have these spheres.

Got it.

Um my other question, and this is kind of by experience, and many of you know this.

My daughter is part um victim of gun violence, which it is my understanding was a flock camera and a camera down the street on Pearl Road.

To this day, she hasn't received justice.

And dealing with a daughter that has the trauma of gun violence as a mom that's a council person, has been very difficult in my household.

So this also brings, you know, confirms what residents say that flock or camera sometimes don't bring justice to families.

And so I kind of I I want to share that because it is important that while I understand there's some cases that are being solved, there's also many cases that go without justice.

And so I wouldn't just put like all my eggs in one basket when it deals with flock.

So many of my re my colleagues have asked questions.

Um I just kind of want to put out there like my vote today really is not against public safety.

I've been here eight years and I have provided every tool and voted for every tool to support the public safety department, but I am just not comfortable with saying yes to Flock at this time.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilwoman.

Councilman Slide.

Uh thank you.

Uh as this has evolved through the chair, uh, and then we were just speaking about this, the um uh removal of Cleveland from the nationwide search, which is a more recent decision than the implementation of the filters that became available in November.

Uh there was a signal Cleveland article this morning uh that says, and I'm gonna just read it, now only Cleveland police and participants in the in the Northeast Ohio Regional Fusion Center, a partnership between local and federal law enforcement can access the system.

Uh so I think that that that sounds to a casual read as if there are individuals beyond the Cleveland Division of Police through the regional fusion center that could have access could through the chair, uh could the department or whoever uh whomever clarify for the audience first what the fusion center is just for context, and then speak to the availability of Flock uh within the fusion center outside of the division of police.

Sure.

Through the chair to councilman's life.

Uh to my uh to chief uh Todd's right as uh assistant uh director of public safety, Michael Herb.

He was uh former uh director of the fusion center.

Uh he's very knowledgeable about the fusion center, their policies and so forth.

He's going to address some of the questions relative to Flock and their capabilities.

Through the chair to the councilman.

Uh the analysts that are in the fusion center are part of a locally uh entity.

It's the Northeast Ohio Regional Fusion Center.

Um so they all come from local agencies and work in partnership with the Cleveland Division of Police uh with the support that they provide.

Okay.

Can someone who works at the fusion center as an analyst for another jurisdiction or another law enforcement agency access flock through Cleveland's access?

The Northeast Ohio Regional Fusion Center has their own Flock account that the analysts have, they have the ability to uh work through the cameras that the City of Cleveland has.

They do.

They do.

They all must do.

I want to be clear about this.

So if if a can we have we have it's been the understanding of this side of the table that the absence some sort of MOU or mutual understanding moving forward that there would be no way for, say, the city uh just naming one, the city of Parma to access data through the City of Cleveland.

Is the fusion center another form of a side door?

The fusion center is uh governed locally.

Uh the City of Cleveland holds either the chair or vice chair seat over the board uh that oversees the fusion center, and they have division of police employees assigned uh in the fusion center, civilian analyst.

Okay.

And are the I'm sorry, this is this is uh struggling to quantify the question, so let me just say what I think the expectation should be.

The expectation should be that only anyone in the fusion center, if they're using Flock, the division of police's Flock account, that should only be available to the division of police.

And I'm less worried about an individual whether they're seated at the first district or the fifth district or headquarters or the fusion center.

I'm less worried about where their physical location is.

I'm more worried about people who are not employees of the City of Cleveland and credentialed members of the division of police potentially having access to the system.

Yes, so the the fusion center illness just uh to explain how a request is made, how the fusion center handles um they take requests in from uh entities within the six counties that they serve here in Northeast Ohio.

Anytime uh anyone calls in to the fusion center to make a request, they have to be from a law enforcement agency, provide their FBI identified number as a law enforcement agency, provide the criminal predicate as to how they're conducting their investigation, uh, and provide a case number that they are using from their home agency.

Okay.

Um I'm gonna stop with this point and speak with some of my colleagues because I think perhaps there's another need for an amendment to limit access within the fusion center outside of the division of police, if that's available.

Um if it's currently available.

I think that that is not something that I suspect this body is interested in.

Um because we're short of time.

Um I do want to thank the chief for the provision of the screenshots you gave me of the officers' access and the list of the different um the offenses that one must choose from in order to conduct a search, I then showing how the toggled filters are enabled and all that kind of stuff.

Uh my question comes down to to make an uh analogy with the uh lead system, I think, where if an officer were to improperly share information available to them because of their access to leads, I think, and the ORC is not pulling up online for some reason, but I believe it's a fifth degree felony.

Uh beyond professional ramifications for misuse, what legal ramifications currently exist.

Through the chair to the council members, so there are people who have been charged criminally through the courts related to violations for leaves.

Um as we discussed it last time.

It's discipline is up to termination for violations related to misuse of the law enforcement commuter computer databases.

Thank you.

So so I uh using leads as an example, is that a specific call out for leads or is that for the misuse of uh criminal investigative tools?

And and in this case, if it's the case that it could be a fifth degree felony to misuse leads because it'll also be a fifth degree felony to improve the example that's been used a lot at this table to search one's ex-girlfriend's license plate through the FLOC system.

Uh through the chair to the council member, those are normally the cases that are are usually prosecuted, prosecuted the most.

Is if someone is going to, you know, misuse the system for looking something for their personal benefit or personal gain.

Um we look at an investigation like this, it would be handled as a criminal investigation through our internal affairs if we find out that they're misusing the system for anything that's outside of law enforcement purposes.

Okay.

Thank you.

I will hold for now.

Thank you.

And just for clarification, because you said something, and I want to make sure that everybody, because this is a very important conversation.

Is that correct?

Did I hear um assistant director?

To the council president, that's correct.

They operate as a freestanding agency.

So they're a freestanding agency.

So if they're a freestanding agency, our officers assigned to that agency can't carry the information that they have access to or that our system has access to because they already have it in that agency.

I'm not sure I fully.

What I'm trying to say is that I, if I'm an officer and I'm assigned to the fusion center, I can't use my credentials or access to the Cleveland Flock system to give to the fusion center for them to look up something.

I would have to use the standalone center that is the fusion center to go through their flock information system.

So the uh to the council president, so the request that's made into the fusion center's accounts, they have visibility within the system because of the analysts that are assigned there assigned from the division of police.

Yes, sir.

Okay.

So I I want to make sure that councilman uh the question is clear because I agree he we may have to look at if there's an amendment that might need to cover a couple of those bases as well.

Uh because I see I could see where that could potentially what we want to do is shut all the side doors.

I know the fire department is not here right now, but we want to shut all of the side doors.

We don't want any side doors and any way that there is any potential side doors, we want to shut it down.

Um I understand his question, and um I I know he's uh creative enough to think about what that amendment may look like, and uh we'll reconvene that when he's uh when he thinks it through.

Councilman Brian Casey.

If I can jump in really quick.

Um this technology is extremely important.

I know everyone at the table understands that.

And it's a tool that's helping our our officers uh solve crime, uh holding folks uh uh accountable.

I certainly don't want anything uh such as this to hold up anything uh with our this uh chance to extend the contract and so forth.

Uh we can work with the fusion center to cut off access uh period.

Um we've already done it nationally, we can do it as well locally through the fusion center as well, as something that we can do.

Thank you, sir.

Councilman Brian Casey.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Mr.

Chairman to the director.

And this is exactly why nobody trusts Flock.

For weeks now, I've had number a numerous conversations with people from the administration.

People at this table, people not at this table.

And I was left with the impression that the only people who have access to any type of flock information are Cleveland police officers.

Cleveland, Cleveland.

We've shut everything off, we've shut everything off.

And just in light of the article this morning with the Department of, because the Department of Homeland Security has access to Fusion, the Fusion Center.

Does the FBI have it?

Mr.

Chairman, to I forget your I don't know your name, but whatever your name is.

Does any entity outside of Cuyahoga County have the availability to have access to any information in the fusion center currently without shutting anything off?

Through the council president, they would have to excuse me.

They would have to make a formal request to the fusion center.

None of them have direct access or the ability to log in.

So I think that the answer to that is yes, they have the ability to get there, right?

They they do.

How they get there is not the question.

The question is they have access to get there.

They have the ability to make the request, yes, sir.

So here I am having conversations, and I believe that only Cleveland has access, and now we hear that there's a as we're calling it now, a side door access to information.

Right.

Um this is why nobody trusts Flock, right?

Is because you don't you have to find the answers on your own, right?

I think everybody in the administration understands council's position on this, but yet every time we we take two steps forward, we're taking one back because the side door opens.

And that's the frustrating part of this piece of legislation, is that when I'm told only Cleveland's gonna have access to it, and then we learn that the fusion center will now have access or has access to Cleveland's information through Flock.

Uh that level of trust just falls again.

And I don't know whose fault that is or what even needs to be said more about that, but it's just another you just give us another reason to vote no, is what happens.

So this is only a six-month extension, correct?

The chair, that's the part of the amendment.

That's correct.

Right.

So in six months, right?

Either we extend it again or Flock gets cut off.

Through the chair to Councilman Casey, uh, we're asking for the extension and to go out for our RFP and potentially we could have a different vendor in place within that six month period.

What what is the cutoff date for this six-month extension?

The chair that I would have to grab the date, but I of course the thank you.

Uh December 29th.

December 29th.

So either you come to council before December 29th for a new RFP, we're for a new contract, or you're coming to us because you need the technology or want the technology for another extension of Flock, or on December 29th, Flock gets shut off.

Through the chair, that's correct.

Am I correct?

Those those those are the three things that are presented in front of us, right?

That's correct, yes.

Through the chair.

Chief, you look like you want to say the chair of the chair.

Through the chair to the council member, I just want to make sure that um when we presented this to safety committee.

I was very clear and transparent at that point that the entities that had access to our system were our members on the fusion center.

I was very clear about that.

The fusion center director um is reports to the safety director.

Uh so that is part of public safety.

So that is the only reason.

I don't want anyone to think that we are trying to be hide something, but we have no problem shutting off that access.

Right.

And Mr.

Chairman to the chief, I'm not saying you do, right?

Because it this is just another example of how messed up the whole FLOC system is with their sharing of data and and it's extremely it's extremely aggravating, right?

So I also have some questions on the amendments.

And I wasn't at the safety committee, I don't sit on safety, so this is my first opportunity to talk about FLOC, right?

So in the first amendment, it says authorized by this ordiners for any purpose other than law enforcement purposes.

So does that mean you we have to define to somebody has to let us know what law enforcement purposes are.

Could this be, Mr.

Chairman, to the director, our law enforcement purpose is just somebody of color walking across the street who's jaywalking.

Now it becomes a law enforcement purpose.

So some other entity wants to come in and grab that and it's okay because it's a law enforcement purpose.

Through the chair.

Um again, this the data is limited to uh searches through the city of Cleveland uh stated, and this has to be a criminal uh nexus in order for the uh the information to be provided.

It has to be a criminal nexus.

Something like Jaywalking is not something that we're gonna provide information to anyone for.

But Mr.

Chairman of the safety director, the term law enforcement purposes is extremely broad.

It could go anywhere from from murder to jaywalking, right?

I mean it it really could.

So and and this is where we run into that more problematic, who's gonna ask for information for a law enforcement purpose.

I know the intent here, but there's intent and then there's how somebody can backdoor our intent.

Right.

Yeah, i if I could, because I know that the I know that um Cosmic Casey is doing a line of questioning, but I'm getting a lot of questions from members.

Can you explain the fusion center?

Some of us know, but some others may not know.

So before we start going down this rabbit hole too far, and I want to make sure that I restore the councilman's line of questioning, because I'm trying to make sure people get very good clarity on this, because we also knows that that's where most of the homicides get solved at is in the fusion center.

So I want us to be able to understand all of the different centers.

This is not a clearinghouse where like the all of these different ICE is not a part of the fusion center.

So we need to make it clear who's in charge of the fusion center.

It's a standalone, but explain that so then so then the councilman can come back to his line of question if you don't mind, counseling.

No, go ahead.

Through the chair again.

Assistant director Herb was uh again the uh director there, so he can uh fill you in more succinctly than I can.

Yes, sir, to the chair.

Uh the fusion center is one of eighty in the country.

Uh here in Ohio, we have three fusion centers, uh, each of which surrounds the major metropolitan area.

Um here in Cleveland, the Northeast Ohio Regional Fusion Center covers six counties uh from Medina to Lorraine, Cuyahoga, Lake, Ashtabula, uh, and Giaga.

Um they are a uh not they are not a federal government entity, they are locally owned and operated.

So the fusion center director is a city of Cleveland employee.

Uh within the fusion center, the analysts that are there are from the Cuyoga County Department of Public Safety, the Cuyoga County Sheriff's Department, and the City of Cleveland Division of Police.

So all the employees are local.

The governance board that oversees the fusion center operations uh is made up of, I believe, 14 board members, all of which are from within the six counties, um, to include the six county sheriffs uh and then the city of Cleveland holding either the chair uh or vice chair position.

So they were created in the wake of 9-11 and have served a an important purpose in Homeland Security information sharing between different levels of government.

Um but a lot of the way that they build their relationships as part of the See Something Say Something campaign is to provide direct criminal case support to law enforcement and other uh emergency services throughout those six counties.

All right, and I wanted to make sure we clarified that because as Councilman Casey goes into his line of questioning, I want us to be very careful that um there's a tremendous amount of regional crime, sex trafficking, human trafficking, and other things that are resolved in that body, right?

To the council president, that is correct.

So I just want everybody to know how important that tool is in order to address a lot of things, but Councilman Casey, you had a floor.

I just wanted to make sure they clarify what the fusion center was.

Yeah, I and I know what the fusion is.

I know you do.

Everybody started to text me saying what is it?

Okay.

All right.

Um, with the um Mr.

Chairman to the to the director, with the second amendment with the financial penalty of up to 10 percent of the amount of the contract, right?

In the agreement between Flock and the City of Cleveland, it says Flock should not be responsible or liable for any amounts that together the amounts associated with other claims exceed the fees paid and or payable to customers of Flock of services under the agreement for 12 months.

So if we in other words, that says if we pay 250,000 for Flock, if they ever if the City of Cleveland ever gets sued that they're only responsible for 250,000.

So if they at I think whatever the penalty is, 25,000, what's what's the penalty amount?

They don't have the amendment in front of me.

I don't have the amendment.

It was a 25 percent.

So what is it per?

I don't know what 25 percent of 250,000, what is it?

31,000.

So five times, seven times they could violate, and if we hit that threshold of 250,000 of violations, then there's nothing they can do about it because the original contract says that they're only responsible for 250,000 dollars, correct?

Mr.

Chairman, to whomever wants to answer that.

Through the director, uh through the chair.

Are you talking about in the former contract uh identification portion?

The yeah uh that means that it says here that FLOC in the in the contract, right?

It states that Flock shall not be responsible or liable for any amounts that together with the amounts associated with all other claims exceed the fees paid and or payable by customer to FLOC for the services under the agreement for 12 months prior to the act or emission that gave rise to the liability.

So they're only responsible, Mr.

Chairman, to to the director of for up to 250,000, correct?

Through the uh the council president to uh councilman Casey.

Um the amendments that you're talking about, obviously we we did not draft the amendments as as you're aware.

Uh the ex the contract, current contract has expired, so we have to get into a new contract to add those uh uh stipulations into so Mr.

Chairman to the director, if the current contract is expired and Flock is still up and running, right?

They're running under what terms?

What conditions, what agreements?

Through the chair, the councilman case is under the current contract, well, the contract expires.

And do you mean to tell me, Mr.

Chairman, to the director or assistant director chief, that you are going to be able to redraw a contract, right?

Get them to agree to it when we know how contracts go, or is this just and all within before six months and get an RFP out and get answers back all before December 29th?

Or are or does if we if we pass this legislation?

Is the current terms of the contract are we working under those ones?

We are current.

All the contracts that expired.

We're still working under the current contract.

We will work with Flock if this contract is extended uh with the amendments uh to add those particular uh provisions or amendments in the contract, the new contract.

All right, Mr.

Chairman of the Chief, are we are to the to the director?

Are we currently paying Flock?

The chair to contracts expired.

So are we currently paying them?

Through the chair, no, we're not.

Okay.

So we're so we have not paid them since when the contract expired in the 29th, and we have not uh paid them since the June 29th of the contract.

Right, June 29th.

My question is, Mr.

Chairman to the safety director, why would they keep running?

Why wouldn't they if it's not if it's for safety purposes and not data collection, why would they keep why would they keep going?

Through through the council present, uh councilman.

They um in conversations with Flock Safety that they understood that July 15th would be pretty much the final deadline of whether or not a contract is going to be approved or not.

Um it is not uncommon when the city is working on a contract um in good faith that contracts will be effective dates will be backdated to when the contract was expired when they will be uh comp.

So that's why the new contract exploitation date would be most likely December 29th, 2025 and not January 29th, if this is getting written in August, because it's going to be backdated to June 29th, 2025.

And then just two two real quick questions that I have left, Mr.

Chairman to the director.

Currently, um Cambridge, Massachusetts and Eugene, Oregon wanted to get out of Flock, right?

They wanted out of Flock.

Flock has sued them to keep the Flock cameras going.

Okay.

Is there a possibility that if this contract ends and uh we want out of FLOC, that Flock has any potential ability to stay here to collect data on us?

Through the Chair, no, once they're done, they're they are done.

They can now collect data from us.

And then who physically takes the cameras down?

Through the chair, uh is their cameras, right?

We're responsible for taking down their cameras.

Right.

So this that's that Mr.

Chairman to the safety director, that's going to be another problem because if this contract expires we can very carefully maybe to Mr.

Jones, take those cameras down, right?

Store them for FLOC and return them.

Mr.

Jones?

Through the chair to the council member, uh the cameras are powered by CPP, so we have some leverage there.

I yeah, I I I get it.

I get it, which is which is a good thing.

So you see the advantage they have in CPP, right?

And then my last question, Mr.

Chairman, the safety director, how many murders have been solved using FLOC in the City of Cleveland?

We don't have any keyboard.

So the chair to Councilman Casey.

Um, not quite sure we have that particular information, but Chief Tuck and uh um help you in that particular response.

So through the chair to the council member uh during our presentation last time of the um I believe it's 53 homicides that we've had this year, 25 of those uh FLOC was used in some capacity during those investigations.

And then of Mr.

Chairman to the chief of those 25, do you know how many specific because I wasn't here for the presentation?

Do you know how many specific you were able to say yes, this guy is convicted of this murder based on the evidence that we gathered using Flock?

Through the chair to the council member FLOC is one tool.

I know.

But I can tell you that um during our presentation we had one of our analysts here who works in our homicide unit.

It's a critical tool.

To, you know, a lot of times the city cameras capture part of what happens.

It's everything together that builds that case and makes for a successful prosecution.

So it's not necessarily that it has to be one particular company, but that technology of ALPRs is critical to the work we're doing.

All right, Mr.

Chairman to the Chief, then I won't say Flock, I'll say can we specifically say a uh a homicide was solved from the use of an ALPR?

I can tell you that we have developed leads which resulted in arrest as a result of ALPRs.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

Thank you, Councilman.

Councilwoman House Jones Harshhaw.

Then I have Bishop Conwell Pilesi.

Um through the chair uh to the team.

Um so as the council president had indicated, I have been very intent on asking about how we in this system uh focus on a root cause analysis, and so I'm just letting everyone know I am working on um a proposal for the City of Cleveland to develop such a thing which would require the interdisciplinary team um made up of forensic and clinical psychologists, um, law enforcement, crime data analysis, social workers, public health experts, um, as well as criminologists and sociologists.

Um in addition to that, um really uh right now um my office is reaching out to the Ohio Census and Commission for us to be able to develop like a or put forth like a strong baseline platform so all these various entities um can be into like a shared datum system or collect the same data.

Um this is years of uh disconnect.

I'll just say that.

So I'm just letting everyone know I am putting that forth in the next couple of weeks.

Um everybody knows how I feel about this, and I'll just leave it at that.

And it's a note for me.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilman Harsh.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um I have uh not attended the safety committee meeting uh hearings over this.

Um so I just want to say briefly a few thoughts uh and maybe just one question sprinkled in there.

Um I first off appreciate how difficult this uh question is for all of my colleagues.

Um when I tell the story about the blind men describing the elephant and coming up with three different ways.

This really is an issue that changes the way depending on how you look at it.

Um and depending on where your priorities are.

Uh I understand the need for safety.

If any victim of a crime deserves justice, then it is the police department's job to try to deliver justice for victims of crime, and I understand how helpful technology and cameras have been in helping uh collect evidence that leads to convictions and uh justice for the victims of crime.

My principal objection is not to the use of cameras or LPRs.

I voted for LPRs.

Um things have changed dramatically though in the last couple of years, and particularly as it relates to Flock.

Uh every elected official on this side of the table and every law enforcement official on that side of the table took an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States, the Constitution of Ohio, and the ordinance of City of Cleveland in that order.

Um it is not the responsibility of Flock to defend the Constitution or the rights of American citizens.

The responsibility of Flock is to turn a profit for their investors, their shareholders, or if they're a privately held company simply for their own employees.

Uh and corporations, and one of the reasons I didn't come to the earlier hearings with them is that corporations can change their mind whenever they want.

That is their right in America.

They are not beholden to some great ethical standard called the Constitution.

So Google's corporate logo used to be do no evil.

And they've abandoned that.

And I think YouTube used to promise they would never have commercials, and they abandoned it, or maybe that was Netflix that the promised no commercials.

My point is corporations can simply change on a whim when they feel like it.

And there are a lot of corporate strategists and consultants out there that would tell you that they have to remain viable in the marketplace.

Sometimes you have to change your your uh business strategy.

And so I am incredibly uncomfortable with the idea of having a corporation that works nationally with law enforcement agencies to collect and maintain a private database.

When they said they wouldn't share it because Cleveland said no, I don't even know if they have to do that.

I I I kicked this over and talked to a few law buddies.

Um it's their data.

If they collect it, it's theirs.

Uh whether or not it is the data is collected in the city of Cleveland, if they have permission, it is their data.

And I I would I would be very curious to see how a court reacts one day if Flock decided to share its data or sell its data, even against uh an agreement with a city like ours.

Um it's been brought up already.

Uh the federal government uh has been politicized and weaponized against American citizens in in the last year and a half.

Um and I cannot ignore how that specter hovers over this conversation as well.

Um the FBI rated an uh uh uh the Ohio organizing collaborative that was registering people to vote, right?

We're watching federal agencies be politicized in front of our eyes to degrees and levels that we've never experienced in this country.

Um as councilwoman Santiana pointed out, uh ICE is a major, major concern.

Um I am not one to uh yell the sky is falling or cry uh fire in a in a theater.

And last year when there was some stuff on Facebook about ICE agents on Denison, uh the commander of second district reached out to me and said that was very much a drug raid.

Those were our guys, and that was very much a bad house.

And I believe the commander, I think he was telling the truth.

And I he said that wasn't ICE, that was us, that was a drug house, we had to get rid of it, and I I thank him and and all the work that you you you do for that.

But I do know that there are also people being pulled over by ICE agents uh who mask their faces who don't show identification, who don't wear cameras.

Um and this is terrifying.

Um Latino, but I am 100% human.

And I take these fears and these considerations very, very seriously.

Um and I swore to defend the Constitution that includes the Fourth Amendment.

Um I will not be able to support this legislation today, but I want to make it clear that I do want to support the use of technology by this police department.

And I believe I heard in those hearings that the city of Cleveland owns outright in-house 3,000 cameras through the chair to the director.

I think that's about right, or the chief close.

And what we're talking about roughly uh 3400 through the chair.

3400, okay.

And then what we're talking about is a contract over 100 Flock cameras.

Through the chair, councilman, that's correct.

Right.

I would rather us have a contract to buy a hundred cameras and get some LPR technology to install software on the cameras we've got.

Uh we've got I've been to the real crime, the real-time crime center.

It's it's an impressive set of equipment.

Um I believe we have the capacity to do this in-house, and frankly, I trust the CPD more than I trust DJT.

I think that we can have that's Donald John Trump.

He's the unfortunate president of the United States right now.

Um I trust our police department more than I trust the federal government right now, and that cannot be ignored in this whole conversation.

That is a massive problem that we have to have right now.

But I trust our director of safety, I trust our police chief, and I trust the men and women of our police department to do a better job of enforcing the law on protecting rights than I do the federal government.

And I don't care what Flock says, it's totally irrelevant.

It does not matter.

They can change their policy tomorrow.

They can change it later today.

They can have a plan in pocket right now to change it as soon as I'm done talking.

They can do whatever they want.

It's irrelevant.

We are the ones that have to defend the Constitution and protect our citizens.

So with that, uh I begrudge no one their vote.

Uh, this is really difficult.

I understand if people prioritize the safety uh and and security issues in their neighborhood more than I'm prioritizing this aspect of it.

It's a big elephant.

There's lots of ways to look at it.

Um so uh I just wanted to uh say that.

Um I think I'll have more to share probably later tonight.

Um but I just wanted to uh uh share my feelings because I haven't been attending those meetings or um taking up much time on this subject.

So thank you.

Um CP.

Thank you, Councilman Harsh.

Councilman uh Shaw.

Thank you, Chair, and uh I appreciate everyone's time and attention to this matter.

I was present at the previous safety committee meetings, but I I did not speak, I did not ask questions.

Um I wanted to just take a few moments.

Um I a lot of my concerns have already been voiced by other council members, so I I really appreciate their attention and um really grateful to council members Stephanie House Jones and Hudson's for their principled stance on this matter so far.

Uh I I I wanted to just take a step back and highlight how important this level of oversight is for our city.

Um I want to remind folks too, as initially the mayor wanted to pass this to the Board of Control without oversight, without questions, without any of this back and forth, without these guardrails being set up.

And at that point, we were told that all of these guardrails weren't necessary, this was not gonna happen, and we've seen over the course of three, four months how that's not really accurate.

And that's not a reflection on the department.

I think that's a reflection on the administration and how we prioritize oversight.

So I'm grateful that the mayor agreed to provide this opportunity for the council so that we can have this important back and forth and build trust and accountability in our government.

I think Councilman Casey's questions have shown us that this is not a room that we're trying to prevent side door access to.

I think that terminology is not very helpful.

It's it's a candy box in a school playground, and Flock is the one holding it, and they're handing they have no incentive to prevent access to this data.

That is how they make money.

And while the guardrails are well intentioned, even the fact that all it requires is a warrant to give our data over is really concerning at a time where we see what judges down in Texas and Florida are signing off on behind closed doors.

We've seen them approve warrants for chasing women who are uh getting abortions.

All of those would still be susceptible to our residents' data.

We are the ones collecting it and storing it, and then we do not get access, as other council members have already pointed out.

Uh so far, the only concrete data that we've seen is there's about a three percent uh improvement on burglary, assault, felonious assault, and robbery.

Three percent.

And we're trading away all of these privacy concerns.

I look forward to seeing more data if the department can provide it.

I appreciate the anecdotal evidence, but once again, I'm being driven by data, and we've only seen a three percent increase.

Feelings have a place, but facts matter.

Feelings have a place, but facts matter, and three percent is the number we should keep in mind.

Um I'm really concerned about the judges and the prosecutors that are weighing on this with such little regard for the Fourth Amendment.

Uh, as council member Harsh pointed out, that is our job.

We took an oath, and they took an oath too.

So uh I'm I'm shocked that they were a shilling for this company with such little concern, and then um my only real point with the fusion center sharing, the Department of Homeland Security is a member of that fusion fusion center.

Is that correct?

Through the chair to the administration, through the chair.

The uh Department of Homeland Security does not oversee the fusion center.

The fusion center um reports, they have guidelines and reporting requirements that they have to do back to the Department of Homeland Security, but those have to do with making sure that folks' rights are being observed correctly, they have to report back why they are doing those types of any searches.

My question was they're a member of the they are not a voting member of the board, and they are not uh any members assigned within the fusion center, no.

Okay.

Um that I mean I think another point that Councilman Casey pointed out was the flock valuation is 8.4 billion dollars.

Our amendment fines them 25% of the contract.

That's a little more than $30,000.

That's a slap on the wrist.

They are going to rip that up and they do not care.

Um I think you know, guardrails don't mean anything in a context where judges do the president's bidding and give blank checks to federal agencies.

And if we pass this, we're being at best naive and at worst complicit in the terrorism being carried out by ICE.

And I urge my colleagues to vote no on the floor tonight.

Thank you.

Councilman, I want to clarify a couple of things.

One is council is the one, and specifically when Councilman Polinsic was the one, and in association with myself and other council members that um told the mayor we wanted that to come back and make sure that we had that conversation with um, we were going to have it regardless, even if we did not have the ability to legislate it, okay?

So that's number one.

Number two, I want to just be careful that everybody has opinions at this table.

And um we value everybody's opinion, but words like naivety and things like that when people actually have serious um debate is not good because that is kind of condescending to the people that actually believe in it.

So I just want to make sure that you know my job is to make sure that we call balls and strikes and not get into accusations, allegations or anything else.

But your point are well taken.

I just want to make sure we we um clarify those two things if we could.

And um Council President Chief Todd, if we could.

I wasn't calling any of our saying.

I was saying the fact that we're gathering the data.

I got you.

It's not gonna be accessed, I think is next.

Okay, I just want to make sure that the body understands that okay.

Chief.

To the chair, I just want to clarify the fact that we as a division understand the concerns of the particular company, not the technology.

Uh the what we're asking for is just a six month month extension to not lose this technology until we can find a better solution.

This is imperative to the work that we do.

This is, you know, when we talk about, you know, I know that they keep saying that the examples we're bringing are anecdotal.

I don't believe them to be anecdotal.

These are actual the work that our men and women are doing every day.

Um, you know, I bring in examples every time we come to the table because it's important to know that the impact the ALPR technology has and the work our men and women are doing.

It is, you know, when we look at staffing, it's not that our staffing numbers are down, it's that we don't have community partners that are willing to speak up because of fear of retaliation.

So we have to use every resource we can to find out exactly what's happening.

You know, our cameras, our ALPRs, our sound gunshot technology, those all of those things together are what helps keep our community safer and what's helps us to solve these crimes quicker.

Uh we have currently an 80% solve rate with our homicides.

That is due to technology, not one particular piece of technology, but all of it working together.

So the only thing we're asking for is an extension to the contract so we don't lose this in the middle of the summer.

We will put the guardrails of the fusion center, block them off to make sure that we are tracking and making sure we know who has access to our system.

We're running that data, but we just don't want to lose it until we find something else.

And Chief, I have confidence in your um recommendation on that, and that's um what has gone a long way with me because I share a lot of concerns that my colleagues have, but I also clearly understand you as the chief law enforcement officer of our community has made it clear in the letters that you've written to us, your testimony, and what you just said now that this is an essential tool, and yes, I have heard from some of your officers too.

Um people that I have mentored and worked with for a long time.

So I want to make it clear that I totally understand um your um concern about this, and I want to reiterate what she just said.

This is almost what I consider a transition period for us to be able to get this right.

And we do a lot of things in this council where we give ourselves the grace to be able to get things right, and that's one of the things that I want us just to consider as we have this conversation that this is not going to be a tell all end all fix.

This is just so that we can spend the time over the next six months to get this right.

Uh I will now move to Councilman Bishop, Conwell Star, House Jones.

Uh is it working?

Is it working?

Can you hear me?

Can you hear me now?

Okay.

Thank you, Mr.

President.

Uh Mr.

President, I'll be brief.

Um first I just want to um take a minute to thank the uh chief for all she she all you do for the city for the CPD.

You have been truly uh wonderful to work with, and uh I am pleased and my residents are pleased with with your efforts, Chief.

Um so my decision on this topic has uh is not my own.

Uh I have asked several residents um in my community about their opinion of Flock.

And consistently I hear the same thing uh from all of my pretty much all of my residents.

I do have one resident who was one of my, I think, and uh and I'm when I say this, uh this is my suspicion.

I uh this is my suspicion that this is one of my more fluent residents, and they were dead set against Flock.

But all of my other residents were for um Flock, but they were for Flock with safeguards, okay.

So my question is to the chief and to the safety director.

What of if we approve this, uh what are the ongoing measures that will be reported to this body about um the safeguards and the safety of the safeguards, and can we rely on these safeguards through the chair, I'll start and then uh chief can pick up uh uh through the chair to Councilman Bishop.

The safeguards are in place are just what we we talked about, which are the uh shutting off the national lookup.

Uh also the filters for folks can't uh even our local officers with J1 do because they know the the the ramifications behind and look up for reproduction reproductive rights as well as immigration checks and so forth, and then the audits that the chief and her staff has in place, well to make sure that folks are using the system uh uh properly and uh accordingly to the policies that we have in place.

Um also coupled with uh I believe uh there's I know again using Flock and a folk flock seems to be um um the flock company itself, they do have uh um a system in place, and the chief can speak more uh thoroughly about it to uh flag certain usage uh as well, which would be reported through the division of police that can be investigated.

So there are provisions that are in place uh to prevent uh um um uh nefarious usage and the first are using it nefariously, they'll be held accountable through the up um uh the policies and procedures that we have in place.

Okay.

Chief through through through the through the chair.

How often will be will we be updated with these uh safeguards?

Do we have a schedule or is it gonna be semi-annual or is it gonna be annual?

Uh through the chair to the council member, this is only a six-month contract renewal.

So if the council members, if you would like a monthly report, I could absolutely have that uh taken care of for you if it would bring that comfort just to get us through the the period of this transition.

Um we could have a monthly audit report sent over, or if you want to buy monthly report, whatever council is requesting, um we could make that happen.

Okay.

All right, Mr.

President.

I'm I'm uh I'm supporting this piece of legislation.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilman Bishop.

Councilman Kevin Conwell and Councilman Richard Starr.

Thank you very, very much.

Um to the chair.

Um the um chief is very, very good, and she's always told me the truth, and I enjoyed uh working with her when she was in the third district.

You were very, very good, and a lot of your um the men in blue uniforms, they would say great things about you, and you always execute it.

So, you know, I believe in you, chief.

You always um you know would tell me what you were gonna do, and you did it.

And the same thing with Commander, well, he looks like Commander Drummond.

I'm so used to saying Commander Drummond, he the safety director, he was over there also.

We work in the neighborhood side by side, and we worked there.

But you know what I really truly um uh um chairman didn't like to the chairman Mike Palency when I sit down and listen to Flock.

You came to us through the chair in the final hour.

This is a difficult piece.

And when you came to us in the final hour, I just couldn't understand why you it was it with the deadline was June 29th, correct?

And and then two weeks from there is over with.

So I'm looking at how your energy compels you to be.

You can't come to us.

Let's say this project ends on December the 11th, and then you come to us on um two weeks before the project is gonna close out.

That's disrespectful, and I didn't like that.

And I was burning up when I sat down with the council uh uh uh with the chairman, Chairman Mike Palency.

I said, how they gonna come to us, man, in the final hour, you want us to agree on this.

And I told him, I said, I'm gonna vote no on this, man.

You coming to me at the in the final hour where you should have reached out to us, perhaps in uh no later than the first week of May.

And I see how your energy compels you to be, because I see a lot of your um legislation that you bring in front of us is in the final hours.

And that's not good.

That's that's disrespectful.

That's disrespectful.

And so to the chair, even with your uh project manager Jones, he said it's gonna cause constraints in six months.

He can start working on this now and reach out to the chairman of safety, let's say sometime in uh September or early October to tell him what direction is this going into.

You see what I'm saying?

Don't wait until the final hour to tell him if there's any glitch dealing with flock.

If there's any uh uh risk dealing with flock from your risk analysis, he knows what that is.

He's a project manager.

He could tell the council, the the chairman, and so you got me on the other side.

I'm disappointed.

I was disappointed when you first brought that out.

I was disappointed when I sat down, and that's not good.

So you gotta stop doing that because it was like they're gonna vote for it, they're gonna vote for it, and then when you when you uh brought us the inf the data, everyone who saw the data said, I see what you're saying, councilman.

The data, they didn't give you supporting evidence to go back to my bosses, my board of directors, to tell them why I need to go to yes.

You see what I'm saying?

And you gotta do outreach to the residents and my community and the other community communities plural in this six months because they're key stakeholders.

They're my boss, bosses, and yours as well, your board of directors.

I'm serious about that.

And you know, uh uh um project manager, you can start working on this right now.

You narrated a process analysis to us, and I went home and I thought about it, and I reached out to the safety director, and I said, he's telling the truth is gonna create constraints.

However, because I listened to everything you said, I did reflections on it through the chair to the project manager.

I said, but you know what?

He can start work on it right now, and he knows where the dependencies are at.

You know what I'm talking about, and then you could tell counsel uh chairman Mike Palencick.

You know you can to the safety director and to um Jones.

You want to comment on that?

Thro through the chair, if I can start, and then uh Commissioner Jones can also chime in as well.

Um as far as the the the uh contract is concerned with uh with Flock, which uh was uh which expired uh June 29th.

Uh we started the process to talk with uh uh safety chair polensic.

Uh we have weekly meetings, you're probably aware of uh the council or the safety chair and I meet weekly, and uh we had uh uh brought to him uh the idea of uh uh what we wanted to do relative to renewing the contract uh with Flock.

So we started there.

Um we as you know we're gonna go through border control.

That was not something that was agreed upon.

Uh as a matter of fact, frowned upon.

So the decision was made to bring it to the full uh safety chair, safety committee for a hearing, which is what we did, so that delayed the process and getting the contract renewed.

Uh the decision was made that uh it was not gonna be uh uh uh extended.

So uh we are now in the process of uh trying to get the extension um to um potentially have a new vendor.

Um we are currently, and I'll say we more specifically, uh Commissioner uh Jones and my team with uh a couple of the assistant directors are working on an RFP right now.

Uh we're in the process of working with that really close to getting that that finalized the process and what we our intention is to make sure that as we go through the R fee process that we come back to council and let you know where we're at that if we're in potentially we need additional time.

So we're in the process of doing that.

Now Larry and the team are diligently working on it so we can get that out as quickly as possible.

So again, if this is approved, we uh we'll continue to work on RFP, get that done within the six months, and hopefully, like it's gonna be a tough timeline.

Uh we can get that out and hopefully have a new vendor selected.

You know, you you did tell me that through the chair, because I was highly disappointed, and I mentioned it you you weren't there to the um safety director and the assistant safety director, because I told you had no problem with Flock.

It was just believing in you guys giving us updates and progress reports on where you at.

And I think he told me, I don't want to put words in in his mouth, councilman.

We were doing that, that we were talking.

That's what he said, that's what he told me.

Councilmember Mike Palency that we had conference conversations with the chair of safety.

Is that what you that's what you guys said, correct?

Ahead of time.

Through the chair, yes.

I have weekly meetings with uh uh Councilman Polensick, who's a safety chair, as you're aware.

We have weekly meetings, and we brought up the um we wanted to bring go through the border controls for this particular um piece, and again, that was not uh something that was agreed upon, so ultimately the decision was made to have a hearing about it.

Now, so that's part of the delay.

So we were moving uh as quickly as we could um uh several months back to try to get this uh renewed.

Uh but of course again that did not happen.

So I don't want you to think or others to think that we just brought this to you or the the council uh committee last minute.

Uh we had a process that was in place.

We were told that we could not do that uh particular process, hence the uh safety meetings, and uh here we are now.

Yeah, because you know, um even when I got home I had to talk with uh my family members about it, you know.

I come from a uh law enforcement um family detective and acting judge and prosecutor and like Kevin, we like Flock, he's solved a lot of um cases.

I said, but they they didn't come prepared.

They didn't call you first.

Oh no, yeah, yeah, no, you called me first, and we we had an exchange, didn't we?

I exchanged.

I said, Man, they didn't come prepared, man.

They bringing stuff to me later.

We we had a nasty exchange too.

We did.

And so I was there with Flock, but you gotta bring, you have to let us know where you at.

I I get so upset and so disappointed when people put me out there, and you you guys know you were you are the commanders in the ward, and you don't tell me where you at.

I gotta know.

And that's important.

That way I could tell my board of directors what's going on.

And and that's just where I'm at.

Okay.

Thank you.

Yeah, we did.

I didn't want to mention the exchange.

Thank you, Councilman.

Me and Councilman Conwell have been best friends for almost 30 years.

We had a pretty uh pretty uh test debate one day.

We're allowed to have that every once in a while.

Uh Councilman Richard Star.

Thank you.

Um I would just say this is always a tough vote on right here.

Maybe one of the most tough decisions that you have, I've had had to make within the last um four and a half years.

And it's and it's always sad to me when you gotta be counting votes and figuring out where everybody at because uh their different backgrounds, the different social class, their ethnicity, their character, their different beliefs.

And I'm I mean I'm one that also looks at history a lot.

And one of the things that is always tough for me, uh respectfully is born in born in Clean Kennedy Project, grew up in in Cleveland, single parent motherhousehold, and the things and the challenges that we deal with as a black man in this city.

And the things and the challenges that we deal as a black man in this city, oftentimes I just find just the black community trying to fight for what's right.

And then when things get controversial, people always want the black folks to try to save or get involved.

But when it's issues from shootings and killings happening in neighborhoods involving black kids getting killed, I don't never hear a word from no other ethnic group.

I don't ever hear no or the word from nobody.

I hear the fake um organizations that lives matter or whatever sometimes.

But when it when it when it's hitting every day and I'm getting the emails from the commanders from the third and fourth district about the violence that's going on, I never hear a word.

And when I've I've I've told I've turned away from viewing the CNNs and all that, obviously, because a lot of the stuff that's going on in Washington under the leadership of this country, I don't I don't completely agree with the movement that we're going.

But what I do want to know is, as I've been trying to study this flock camera situation, and everything that I pull up, there's so many different things that come up.

You can find some pros, you can find some cons, and you can find some reasons why some cities renewed, and you can find some cities didn't renew.

I seen from some data that it's about 5,000 cities with flock cameras, and then next thing you know, about 30 to 40 cities chose to reject, but then you look up and you see there's still almost 4,000 people using it, and they added some different type of restriction.

And what I want people to understand is that I don't understand immigration.

I don't.

I'm not an immigrant, I don't know anything like that.

I can't, I can't tell you as a black man who's here in this country, and 250 years later, I finally was called a racist.

I almost told my mama, like, Mom, I guess I must be accepted by this country now.

Because at the end of the day, when it comes to crime in my neighborhood, folks don't think to call the police first.

They think about retaliating.

And then eventually the police have to solve what happened with two murders.

And when I look at some of the information that was shared from the prosecutor office, some information that was shared from the administration, all I see is the amount of 14 cameras that is in War 5, and when the homicide happened on East 55th, how it showed that they use license plate reader to find out how it who was the one in the car.

Or when a shooting took place at public square, that they showing from the report from the police and the prosecutor, how they use license plate reader to identify what actually took place.

So one of my hardest decisions is like I have people saying that they don't like that flock is sharing data.

Well, let me tell you what I don't like.

I don't like that I can't have a conversation with my colleagues because all in time they get a chance to get political gang and use what I say to them, they leak it to the media.

So when we talk about trust and we talk about sharing, I can't even share nothing with my colleagues because they're gonna run their mouth because they think they're gonna get one leg up on me.

So it's like now when we talk about when we talk about that's why I don't be in the chat like that.

Because I seen it with my own eyes.

So one of the toughest things is I'm dealing with and trying to get understanding when they talking about on CNN, when they're talking about in different things, when you talk about immigration, are you telling me that there is data showing that the federal government uses flock cameras to go at the people that are immigrants here in the city through the chair?

To anyone, can anyone is that what people are basically saying that the flock cameras are being used and the data is being shared to ICE agents who are using that information to go at the people that are immigrants to the chair?

Through the chair, Councilman Starr.

I can tell you that we have no information here in the City of Cleveland Division of Police that flock cameras, our data was used for anything such as what you just described.

I can tell you that unequivocally.

Okay.

And then from the standpoint that you have, you're saying that based on the contract that we have with Flock, you have no data showing that they utilize our information from Flock Cameras and sent it or shared it with any other agency that possibly used it for their own gain through the chair.

Through the chair, Councilman Starr again, we have no information here in the city of Cleveland that our data was used for that in that way.

And also we the City of Cleveland, that is, we did shut off or put filters in place, November of uh 2025 filters that you could not search for data relative to reproductive rights as well as immigration status.

All right.

So based on the research that you're telling to me on to the director through the chair, is you don't have no information that they actually used it.

Um but from the standpoint, do we have any information that they shared some of our data with uh FBI, CIA, DEA or anything through the chair?

Uh through the chair to the council member, I just want to say that um the issues related to Flock haven't been here in Cleveland.

The the um the data and the stories that we talk about or what happened in other cities.

Okay.

So we've been ahead of the curve within our contract negotiation with Flock to ensure that they didn't use the same things that happened in other cities.

So we've been more proactive, making sure they don't do that here in the city.

So three chair the councilman star, that's correct.

As the chief stated, the uh all you have things going on with ice throughout the city, Minnesota, um in particular in other places and so forth.

And once uh there became an issue here, not that that ice was here and and uh uh doing anything relative to immigration.

Once that information started uh filtering here to the city of Cleveland, the division of police uh took the step working with our vendor to uh shut off or put filters in place for immigration reproductive rights.

And then this year as the chief stated before again is that we did uh cut off the the national lookup as well.

You know, thank you for that clarification.

And it's and it's tough because like I said, I I was born and raised here, so all I know is what I know from being here.

Um I don't know what it is to be here, whether you illegal or not, and trying to make ends meet or trying to get your citizenship.

I don't I don't know how that feels.

And and I never can act and say I understand that.

But what I do know is back in January 1st in 1863, when they first decided to say slaves were free, people were still being enslaved.

People were still being enslaved when the government said slaves are free.

It had to take until 1865, June 15, for the federal government to come in and make sure blacks were free from being slaved.

So I I hate to I hate to talk about the history because people get uncomfortable when you talk about the facts and the truth about this country, and at the end of the day, like I started this conversation.

Every time something controversial comes up, they look for blacks, especially elected leaders to be the ones frontline fighting.

But at the end of the day, I've buried more children, families crying, paying for funerals to provide resources for those who don't have it, then anyone can imagine at my young age.

But what is going to be hard for me to say is for me to look to in the eyes of residents who continuously deal with gun show shootings every day, and when I call the police, ask them what happened, and we look up and they say, Well, we don't have the actual license plate reader no more, because Cleveland City Council decided to say we don't want to renew your six-month lease and go out with an RFP later.

So, Council President, as as the council member of uh of War Five Richard Starr, I find it hard for me to understand the history and the need of technology to help you solve crime for me to sit here and say, let me vote to take away a tool that police officers and the prosecutor has said they used to it.

So you could call me as a yes uh for this ordinance.

Thank you, Councilman Starr.

Uh, great points.

Appreciate um some of your context of what you had to say.

Councilman Joseph Jones.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Um we had a very in-depth conversation um back here this summer about the flock camera.

Mike Palency, the chairman of the safety committee, took a long period of time to kind of like work its way through and try to understand the fundamentals.

And after asking the questions to the people at Flock, they shared with us based upon the guardrails we put in place that it would be a firewall where that if any warrants or any information that would be needed, they would not share that information, but that that information and the decisions that would be made would actually come from the safety director.

So, Mr.

Chairman, um to our safety director, um, if there's a warrant that someone in Miami or judge down in Miami wants to get information on this system, um will our legislation prohibit that Chair I'll let uh assistant director uh Shachner answer that particular question.

Thank you.

Uh Council.

And say they want to use it, so I want to be specific.

Say they want to use it, Mr.

Chairman, um for political purposes, because we know one party dominates and has a political objective and agenda where the other party doesn't, and they want to use this information for you know, preventing people for an example, what has happened, what we've seen is happen within the last four years or so uh to prevent people from having abortions, uh, in addition to uh dealing with immigration, and they wanted that information on those purposes.

Do we have the capacity to write with what we have right now that to say no?

Through Council President to the Councilman, we would have an opportunity to work to quash that warrant, whatever legal process necessary to challenge it.

Um it's been the practice of flock safety to, if they received a warrant to refer that down to the city because the city is the one that has ownership contractually of the data.

And again, the actual useful data that has the license plate numbers and identifiers that would be useful in the investigation are only held for 30 day periods.

Um so that search warrant would have to be pretty um done pretty expeditiously in an investigation for it to actually return anything of value.

Uh long story short, the city would have the opportunity to challenge that warrant in court.

Based upon the legislation that we have in front of us, not uh through the council president to the councilman, not through the legislation, just through the regular practice of law and the laws behind search warrants and how they can be challenged.

And the reason why I asked that question because it was poised to me.

Uh I did take the opportunity at great length to ask, and that's the reason why I asked the flock of representatives to come up to the table, because I wanted to hear from them about the alleged data breach of which they denied never happened.

Um, and as well as um when I asked them the question concerning um how they would respond to uh requests from the federal government um to get information, and their response was we created a specific firewall just for the city of Cleveland.

So any information and every information uh that we collect or the data that we have is all proprietary information of the corporate structure of the City of Cleveland, more or less is what they said.

And so I just wanted to make sure that that's ironclad.

Now, is that ironclad, Mr.

Chairman, to the safety director?

Director.

Through the president, uh council president, yes.

That means if a search warrant was served upon um flock safety, that they would not have the information, access to the information that the warrant seeks.

They would have to serve the search warrant upon the city of Cleveland.

I see.

And so, and then we have the uh legal authority because it's our information, our taxpayers pay for it, it's our information.

We have the right to tell them no.

It it it's not it's a little more complicated than that.

We we we could go through the legal process in attempts to challenge that, but search warrants are pretty uh it's a search warrant.

But just for clarification, because the councilman is asking a very good question.

Yeah, that stands for anything.

Okay, see, this is where you guys got to be clear because it's almost I mean, and I apologize, I mean, because the councilman is bringing up a very valid point.

It has to be clear.

Anytime a judge or somebody issues that warrant, I don't care if it's flock or anything, the city is has to comply or be in contempt.

That is correct, Council President.

That just not has to do with Flock Data, that has to do with anything, W9s that the city holds, um, any personal identifying information the city holds through advantage, through ADP, through any sort of software, any information that the city holds.

Cosmic Jones.

And thank you, Mr.

Chairman, for um that clarification.

I stopped my time and then I started it back.

Um go ahead back.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

I appreciate that.

Cosmic Jones, I'm gonna give you more time if you want more time.

I do, thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

I appreciate you.

Um of the things that's really important, you know, for the viewing audience who are hearing these situation here in the city of Cleveland, and for our citizens in the city of Cleveland, and just so that uh as you're hearing it, there's three things that are very important to me.

I think that as a city we should always be competitive about and have a competitive nature in.

And some of what we talked about this morning is bringing economic development into the city of Cleveland, having a school system that's second to none, and then the third thing is safety.

And we need to utilize every two that we have available to us in the toolbox to deal with the crime in our community.

And I think that my colleague, and I know that my colleague talked about growing up in King Kennedy and his life and the life of the people who are around them and the crime that is unfortunately happened and the trauma that has happened in certain parts of the city of Cleveland.

And I don't care who's listening right now.

When you get traumatized, it it changes who you are.

It changes the chemistry of the individual, the person, and the community, and it makes it difficult for some people to even move forward in life because they can never get over that trauma.

And so in my neighborhood, as eloquently as Councilman Starr stated, we're being overrun by crime.

And when our people do call the police in this city in this moment in time, they're constantly giving one word.

We don't have cars to send out to help.

We're busy doing something else.

And they never deal with the citizens, especially those who are homeowners and taxpayers and business taxpayers and businesses in the community, they're never responding in a way which we can capture that crime.

So one of the issues, and I heard the argument, Mr.

Chairman, about this is something that can't stop crime.

But yes, this is a two that can help to resolve those crimes and to take people off the streets who have committed those crimes.

And how do I say sitting here to any citizen, and we had over a hundred and forty different cases of testimony that was brought in by the prosecutor that talked about how flock camera was used to capture people who have committed heinous crimes in our community, like the young man who was shot in the back of his head in my neighborhood, and how they use that to capture these people, or the woman who was gunned down by thugs who broke into her home and how they were able to capture them.

And how do I say to those families that we can't use this tool?

So when I sit here and I make the decision, it's a no-brainer for me.

Those people who don't live in my neighborhood, they don't live in my neighborhood.

But the people who live in my neighborhood, we're in trouble.

They closed down our right aid on East 147th Street.

And when I tried to fight to get my right aid back opened up through government, their response was this.

We closed down not because we were not making money in your neighborhood, we closed down because we never had the police response time coming.

We net we our our employees' safety is our number one concern.

And so we we're closing this store down because we have no protection.

And then the second issue that came up, my U-Haul in my neighborhood, been in my neighbor for years, and they kept calling.

People kept vandalizing the U-Haws.

Then they started distilling the the Caled converters out, and then they start sleeping inside the U-Hauls, and then you haul left my neighborhood.

And then the next big hit that came was Family Dollar on East 167th Street and Miles.

Every week it was robbed twice.

And I brought that issue to four different commanders, because we've had about six of them now, almost it feels like eight in the district.

And when I brought the attention, they said this is a low-line piece.

We're just too busy with other issues.

Two people got killed there.

The store made a corporate decision to close down.

So I submit to you, Mr.

Chairman.

Now I'm dealing with Walgreens.

And Walgreens is saying we're about to leave your neighborhood because we got crime so high that we're we're making a corporate decision to do something.

And I'm sitting there saying, hey, we don't want you to leave.

Let us put together a safety package.

Let's put some skin in the game.

Please continue.

Let us talk.

The whole point that I'm trying to make to those who are listening, our city is overrun with crime.

We need to use every two possible.

This is a no-brainer for me.

And if council members don't want the flock of cameras and vote against it in their neighborhoods, Mr.

Chairman.

Can you please put them over my community?

And I mean that.

I literally mean it.

So if if, for an example, uh ABC Wards don't want that flock of camera, I want them over in my community because we need to have as much as many twos possible to resolve the crime that's overrunning my people in my community.

And as I have stated to some of you are on the safety forces, I don't see the police in my neighborhood like I need to.

And if you're doing your best, your best is not the best.

So but it's the best you can do.

But we're still overrun.

And I just want to thank the chairman for giving me a little bit of more time here, two more minutes.

I appreciate you.

And um, and and I'm number one hands down in support.

But I will say I don't want us to be involved, Mr.

Chairman, with national politics.

Thank you, Councilman.

Well said.

Councilwoman Stephanie House Jones has asked to make an additional comment.

Oh, I will.

I got you, Councilwoman.

Okay.

Um, yeah, no, I I was anyway.

Um just fundamentally, as we had these conversations about flock, um, just being very clear when people talk about um supporting our police officers, having them have all the tools, um, is after the fact, and there needs to be more emphasis on preventing crime.

That's what I'm saying.

That is my I want people to be very clear on I think it's a much better proposition to prevent crime to begin with, then go all in over-indexing on a reactionary system.

That's where we are.

Um, but in that I will just say that um, you know, I gotten a report that ISIS in Ward 8, and they see to be targeting like a place where kids are, where now kids have to produce you know, documentation and things of that nature.

To me, this is absurd.

And like I said, this federal government cannot be trusted, they cannot be trusted, and they will do anything to prove their point and to silence people.

But there are people like myself that do not believe that we need to be silenced in the face of a mad person, madman, tyrannical type of behavior that is doing everything they can to silence us and will use this type of technology that some people use for good, they are using it for evil.

That's that's just my stance, and I I would like I said, in this conversation, I thought it would be remiss as to know, like I said, just today, there is an ICE agent that is in my community over at Magnet.

They were there on Friday to come back today, looking for something, and this is a place where young people are trying to be a part of our community of the future.

We'll see how how well that will that lead and the imprint and a leader in their mind of thinking if they will call Cleveland a place home, because you have a community that will not protect them.

Thank you, Councilman.

Councilwoman Deborah Gray.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I just want to uh speak on Flock myself.

Um I can echo Councilwoman House, I can't echo anyone else, but for me in the community that I'm in, not not, you know, the um the lady anything for the entire city of Cleveland.

I know what the constituents have been dealing with in War Three as a whole, and they've been massive, you know.

You know, um Flock has done quite a bit of good things of uh of uh chasing down the bad activities that we've been dealing with quite a bit.

Um that's around uh you know the northeast side of the community.

And I can uh say positively our commander uh emailed us all the um Southeast Side Council uh that's in 4th district.

We all get an email on every incident that happens in our community as a whole.

And uh he's very responsive.

He let us know what um what Flock has done to assist of uh dealing with the criminal activities that we get on a regular basis.

So we are aware of what's going on and how and how it has helped our community as a whole.

And uh especially, especially with this massive, you know, especially with this massive um incident that happened on July 4th.

Uh, you can't imagine what the residents dealt with during that weekend.

Unfortunately, we didn't get ahead of it in enough time, but we did end up blocking it after we got uh after the uh officer you know got the notice a little late, however, we we just have to just move forward, and they did end up doing a great job of uh of uh you know dismantling you know that situation.

But now we know what we need to do, but to say the least, for my knowledge and my community that I've been living in more than enough, that system has helped us more now than ever, regardless of how somebody else feel about their area or the whole city of Cleveland.

That system has helped our southeast side community tremendously of uh of uh um capturing you know bad uh you know bad activity, you know, looking at the right licenses, also capturing other criminals constant.

So, and I get everyone, but due to what we're dealing with now, we need assistance.

If we don't have enough officers, how we gonna get the extra help?

Because when you call on the council, I'm there, I'm there as your counsel to understand the issue concerns, but I need extra security for my commander to help that, you know, to have the incidents on the southeast side.

I'm not security.

I need to call on my commander.

My commander needs to connect with his chief and his director and whatever helps us to uh to secure security in our southeast side and also the city of Cleveland, you know, to uh handle this bad activity.

We need it.

We can't complain about we don't have enough officers, but then you know, but then we complain about extra security.

We can get out and do the security work.

It's frightening.

It's frightening when I get the calls and I'm the council.

I can't go out there and be security.

I can't go out there to be flock.

I can't go out there to be the spot shop spotter.

I can't be those things.

But we need extra things as um as everybody got the ring camera, everybody got cameras on their home.

We need to understand how to collaborate together to protect our community, then saying what is bad and what is not.

And hopefully, as Chief Todd, I saw the news uh I wasn't here when they was in safety, but I listened and heard Chief Todd also say that they have plans in place.

They know what they need to do to uh to not to use it for this and to make sure that third party is not using it for all the wrong reasons.

They got a six-month, I think chief of the safety, I mean, um, you know, chair of safety said there's gonna be a six-month amendment.

And to that, we gotta start something with a positive plan to saying that this is not gonna work.

Because I don't think nobody who's gonna say, I don't want it.

I can't call on you to come in my neighborhood to save these people who's dealing with bad activity.

I don't think I can call on nobody because we don't have that type of expertise to do that work.

I'm not gonna get my head blown off, I'm not gonna get beat down because I don't uh because I don't have the extra security to work with the fourth district to help my neighbors to get the help they need when they call me and email me all times of the night.

I can't get up at two o'clock in the morning, which I did a couple of times, but I was up watching TV.

So I'm saying I'm just saying that.

Sometimes I just take that initiative, move when someone actually call me, and it's not a resident, it's it's somebody from community relations, the interruptor who's out there letting me know at two o'clock in the morning, hey Councilwoman Grey, we out here with the police department taking care of this activity.

So I get those calls along with everyone else.

So and then so listen, you might be mad at me, but I support it.

At the end of the day, I support it because I'm going through a whole lot right now.

Thank you, Councilman Will said, and I know that you and I share a border and we both been going through that together.

Um I wanna try to wrap this up.

Councilman Shaw has asked for one quick point, and then I gotta turn it over to Councilman Palency for closing remarks because he's the chair and he's the one that orchestrated a lot of this uh conversation.

Oh, I'm sorry, Councilman Casey and and Shaw.

Very brief points, ladies and gentlemen.

We still have about 20 pieces of legislation.

Please proceed.

You first, Mr.

Shaw, and then Councilman Casey.

All right.

Thank you, Chair.

Uh appreciate everyone's perspectives and personal details about you know how they've struggled with figuring this out.

It it is a difficult situation.

Um I I believe safety, unfortunately, we're treating it as a zero-sum game, and it shouldn't be.

One community's safety shouldn't will never be guaranteed by putting another community in danger.

My colleagues have shared their experience and struggles with dealing with crime.

But I'm troubled by this being cast as a division between immigrant and black communities.

This only serves the interest of billionaire companies.

As the only immigrant on council, and the first immigrant for decades on this council.

My heart breaks for my community.

I've shared this with colleague in private, but I'll show you this openly.

I've gone through some difficult times recently.

I misplaced my passport.

I don't have any documentation of my citizenship.

I enjoy immense privilege as an attorney, as an elected official.

I rest easy knowing that if I get pulled over by ice, that I'm gonna be protected.

But what do I tell the other immigrants that don't have that experience when they get pulled over?

What do I tell them in the east side or west side?

Because immigrants are everywhere.

We're not just on the east side or the west side.

And for me, it's it's it's just difficult to hear about this as some sort of a thing where uh protecting immigrants is going to come at the cost of our black residents when we know that's just not true.

If anything, we know that we have to stand in solidarity.

Everything that has happened to black communities is happening to immigrant communities.

Everything from the exploitation to being placed in danger.

So it's once I I just am struggling with what to convey to my community.

Um we've seen, in fact, for the last uh I don't know how many decades, which many of my colleagues have been here for that our city's population has declined.

And the only reason why this city has grown in the last couple years is because of immigrants.

As much as we've talked about wanting development and growing our city, what kind of message are we sending to our immigrant communities by passing this legislation?

To me, it means that we're not welcoming immigrants because we're not guaranteeing their safety.

I yield chair.

Thank you, Councilman Casey, and then Councilman uh Slife would like to proffer an amendment.

Or did you or is Rachel gonna do the amendments?

So after Casey is doing so, Casey's gonna make comment, and then we're gonna turn it over to our staff attorney for the proper amendments.

All right, Councilman Casey get it done and then we get it.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Mr.

Chairman, in reading this legislation, who's the sponsor of this legislation?

Uh right now it is Mayor Bibb.

And is there a departmental request?

No, it is um Mayor Bibb has uh requested this.

All right, Mr.

Chairman, too, since the safety director is taking the the helm on this.

Where's the mayor?

Why isn't he here to present his legislation?

No, to the safety director.

Through the through the chair to Councilman Casey.

Um this obviously started under public safety and was uh subsequently moved, you know, to to the mayor.

Um this legislation again is extremely important.

Um I work for the administration as the public safety director.

Um so I'm speaking uh on behalf of the mayor.

Um it's important to stress that nowhere has anyone said that the division of police um data has been used to track uh anyone that's immigrant, nor has this uh we have any information that uh our data here in the city of Cleveland been used for tracking anyone for reproductive rights.

I think sometimes things are being conflated.

Uh the division of police members.

Mr.

Chairman to the safety director, uh I get all that.

My question is unless you can use Flock to find the mayor right now, right?

Why isn't the mayor here to present his legislation?

So let me let me get something straight.

The headlines tomorrow are gonna read the Cleveland City Council, right?

Voted to keep FLOC, but let nobody forget that it was Mayor Bibb who chose Flock to be in the City of Cleveland, and it was Mayor Bibb who wanted to renew the contract with Flock.

All right.

I just want to make that clear.

We're the ones getting upwards to seven or eight hundred emails, right?

We're the ones getting the phone calls.

Uh and that's fine.

We'll burden we'll burden that that we'll we'll weigh that burden.

Um but if he's if the mayor, I don't care which mayor it is, what his last name is, is going to put his name on a piece of legislation and be the only sole sponsor of that legislation.

He should at least have the respect of the institution of government and this city council to come and present his own legislation to the body.

You guys have done a marvelous job.

You've done your jobs, but it that's your job.

But when he puts his name on a piece of legislation, or whoever the mayor has puts their name on a piece of legislation, they should at least show the dignity and respect of coming before the public and the city council to present that piece of legislation.

Thank you.

To the chair, that to Councilman Casey came over initially as a departmental request.

Well, it's not on there now, so I don't know what happened, but it's just Mayor Bibb.

Make it clear to the room, to the police department, to council, to the media, that this came before us as a request from Mayor Bibb.

It's not the council wants it or or we're doing our job, but this we're here because Mayor Bibb has requested and wants FLOC in the city of Cleveland.

Thank you.

Again, this did come as a departmental request, and not quite sure where it's changed, but it did come as a departmental request.

Okay.

All right, we're going to wrap this up.

We have one last amendment because the chair has really um worked hard on this.

Um I I think uh I owe him big time because he's really been working hard and did he has it 45 years in this joint.

Uh but uh the uh the uh councilman Sly from War 15 has a amendment that he would like to proffer regarding the fusion center.

Sure, and very briefly, because just uh just to cue this up.

I do want to just build on Councilman Casey's point and note that under the capital budget and the IT infrastructure, the mayor still does have the legal authority to extend his own version of a flock contract, which I think is a reason that it it's good that we're discussing these guardrails, but these guardrails if they they could go away.

Uh and and I'll just share, I I I want to say that I'm very throughout this process been very sensitive to concerns about how other jurisdictions have misused this technology in a legal ways and unethical ways.

But my goal all along has been to determine if there's been proof of that happening in Cleveland with data from the Cleveland Division of Police.

And I I will just say I just haven't been satisfied by any definitive proof, especially since filters have been turned on, that these things have been happening in the city of Cleveland.

Now that being said, I think that there is a value in not resting explicitly on policy and good luck, but making sure that there are things in place that are going to allow that to continue.

And this information we've received about the functionality of the Northeast Ohio Regional Fusion Center uh and them having their own access through their own separate portal is new information.

Uh so to that end to close that potential and I what I've understood from conversations is that policy exists to prevent what we worry from happening.

Uh, but I think you can uh we can all appreciate why there's not a satisfaction just to rely on policy when we have the ability to rely on law.

So to that end, uh in addition to all of the amendments that have already occurred, I propose or I move at the end of new section two to insert the following language.

I'll second it.

So we have an amendment that has been proffered and seconded.

All in favor.

I mean, sorry, any discussion?

All in favor, aye.

Aye.

Any nays?

The ayes have it.

Uh the amendment carries, please add that to the legislation.

I will now give the final remark on this extensive piece of legislation to the dean, Councilman Michael Pelsi.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman, my honorable colleagues, and I and to the viewing public.

I'm gonna thank all my colleagues who attended the hours of hearings on these on this critical issue.

I want to thank the uh 41 residents, um, not only residents, but individuals who came down to testify at the hearings, um, and all the uh correspondence that we have received of both pro and opposed to the legislation as it has been presented as amended.

Mr.

Chairman, I learned a long time ago from a dear friend of mine, uh George Forbes, you can't have it both ways.

Is that true?

You can't have it both ways here.

So we're every one of us is affected by violent crime in our neighborhood today.

I'm dealing with things that I never ever experienced in my years here.

Uh the disregard, disrespect for community standards, community decorum, uh, elderly, women, and children.

Uh I have never ever experienced this before.

And I'm very mindful, Mr.

Chairman, um, of protecting individuals' rights.

And I believe this council has been very protective of protecting individuals' rights because when you look at the body collectively, uh, there are many of us here who have roots elsewhere.

Uh, my own family fled Europe to get away from the socialists, the communists, and all the other nut jobs that come to America.

I comprise a ward at 77 percent black and a whole host of my brothers and sisters, especially my brother from another mother who's fled misses whose family fled Mississippi to get away from Jim Crow and the Klan.

So I'm very mindful of protecting people's rights, protecting people's rights.

And in fact, I in my own where my great-grandparents came, they just found the 700th mass grave where people were executed by the socialists and the communists.

So I'm very mindful of protecting one's rights.

This legislation, what this has come down to, the issue is not about license plate readers.

It is about flock.

That's the issue.

When you talk to residents about wanting license plate readers, there's no debate.

They know the importance of them.

In fact, the majority of cities in Cuihoga County have license plate readers.

In fact, most of the institutions in university circle have them, including CMSD, has over 200 flock cameras.

CMSD.

Where's the protest?

Where's the protest in the suburbs?

What we see here, we have been descended upon by individuals who are trying to link up Federal Emigration Enforcement, which I don't agree with the way it's being handled.

But this body does not control the FBI.

We don't control DOJ, we don't control any of the other agencies, federal agencies, we don't.

The safety director, the chief has assured us that there are filters in place that will prevent outside data sharing and prevent, especially our data being sold for um commercial purposes.

We made amendments at the committee, and I want to thank all my colleagues who offered the amendments, and we have they were substantial.

And I'd like to believe, based on the amendments, Mr.

Chairman and my colleagues, that we drew the wagons around the provider of the license plate reader technology.

Uh we listened, I want to say this again to the viewing public.

We listened to what people were saying.

We took in that to consideration about protecting individuals' rights and what was taking place within the city of Cleveland.

But when you look at the document, and this is just one that I have, that the prosecutor presented, Mr.

Chairman, broken down by Ward, and you see the violent, horrendous acts that were that had taken place in our neighborhoods, and if it wasn't for the license plate readers, those individuals would have never been caught, including that dirt bag that ran over that seven-year-old in my neighborhood and left them there and then took off for weeks.

And if it wasn't for those license plate readers, they would have never found them in Willoughby.

You stand there like I did and comfort his mother.

You comfort his mother like I did.

When that little one was run over by that piece of crap who I've been dealing with for since he was 15 years of age, and now he was in his 30s.

I could go down case by case over this list.

The Bartek family, whose son was brutally murdered, police officer in our city.

If it wasn't for those cameras, they would have never caught that person.

Case by case, and I have to say this, because we've always talked about transparency at the table.

And I think my sister over here, Councilwoman Gray touched on it.

There is a great disconnect in this city.

Let's just be honest about it.

There are people living on streets in this city that are nowhere nearly affected like some other sections.

And the overwhelmingly overwhelming number of emails that I received are from the West Side opposing flock.

Not even close.

And where is the majority of people in support of it?

From the West side.

I mean from the east side.

That tells me there's a disconnect in this city.

And I'm troubled by that disconnect.

That you see neighborhoods ripped apart by this violence, by this chaos.

And as my dear colleagues, Councilman House has said, we know that the origins of crime are many.

Crappy schools, lack of jobs, lack of mental health facilities.

We could go all down the list, and I see it every day on the east side.

The lack of opportunities.

But at the end of the day, we've got to protect people.

And if any, and we all know that cameras don't prevent crime.

If they did, there'd be no bank robberies.

There'd be no other crime taking place in this.

We've got 3,400 cameras.

We have a hundred license plate readers.

We and the council and my brothers and sisters on the safety committee, Mr.

Chairman, we took the action to regulate it to put a six-month provision in there with the other amendments.

It's up to the administration, it's up to the mayor to go out for an RFQ RFPs and figure out who's going to do this.

We cannot have the license plate readers go dark.

I never want to have to explain to a parent or a wife or a daughter who lost their father, police officer or mother, and we couldn't track who did it.

I never want to be in that situation.

I never want to have to explain to someone else in the city why we couldn't find someone who brutalized some child in one of our neighborhoods.

It's not about the license plate, it's about flock.

And they created their own problems for themselves.

Not this body, not this institution.

This was brought to us.

This was the council president was absolutely correct.

In December of last year, at the 11th hour, the administration wanted this put through.

And we wouldn't do it.

We said there has to be transparency.

There has to be accountability.

That's what led up.

Now, again, as we said at the table, they had six months.

Here we are today.

We need license plate readers.

Our men and women in blue.

Our neighborhoods need license plate readers.

I don't know who the company is going to be, who they're going to pick, who's going to be brought over to us.

And again, with the amendments that we put forth to draw the wagons around Flock, who is the provider, with the other action that we've taken, I feel confident that we, that we, this body, in working with partnership with the director and the chief, have done what is appropriate.

What the feds do, we can't control, and I'm like all of you, I'm afraid to turn on TV every morning to figure out what the orange man is doing, okay?

I'm very concerned about that, and his attack on civil liberties.

We are not attacking civil liberties.

We are protecting them in the City of Cleveland.

We are protecting our citizens with license plate readers.

Six months.

We implemented helicopters, drones.

We've taken every action possible and then some to protect our men and women in blue and our citizens.

At the end of the day, our citizens deserve license plate readers to identify these perpetrators.

And I'm gonna just be very blunt, going back to what I said earlier.

You can't have it both ways.

If you don't want them, tell the safety director, shut them off in your neighborhood.

You can't I'm beyond it at this point.

Yeah, if you don't want them, send a letter to the safety director and CC the council president.

You don't want him, shut them off in your neighborhood.

And see how that goes over.

See how that plays out in your neighborhood.

You'll be in you're gonna be in for the sh the surprise of your life at that point.

So, Mr.

Chairman, the piece has been amended.

I want to thank the council members of the safety committee who offered this.

I want to thank everybody, whether they were pro or con, because the people who are opposed came up with some good suggestions and ideas, which we incorporated into the piece.

So, Mr.

Chairman, you did wear me out, okay?

Um I appreciate um the process.

I appreciate the engagement with the with the director of public safety who I meet with every week.

He knows what the council's position is.

Citizens' rights have to be protected.

That's not even debatable.

Our citizens' rights have to be protected, but we have to go after the people who are terrorizing our neighborhood.

That's it.

That's it, Mr.

Chairman.

Thank you.

And um, I'd like to thank everybody for a robust conversation.

I want to just ask everybody on council to recognize that we all have different diverse neighborhoods that we represent.

Um, I really take councilman Shaw's comments to heart.

We do appreciate having you as a colleague here.

There's gonna be times when we not all agree.

Um that's the tough job of this body, is to have these kind of very tough, hard conversations.

And at some point in time, I really hope that we could really do more of these and put it on the ballot to go in executive sessions so that we can have more of these candid conversations without dragging them out um all the time.

Um and and and really get to the nuances of some of these things, but I think it was very critical and very good debate.

I also want to make sure that we don't underscore uh that we have spent probably an unprecedented amount, millions of dollars in prevention through the consent decree, through the police uh commission, through the grants that we've given to the PIO office.

We have spent an enormous amount of money on prevention as well.

Um so just to make this clear, um, when you look at how much we spent on prevention um compared to this um this um six-month period, it is um overwhelmingly weighted towards prevention.

So I don't want to lose sight of that.

Um I do want to tell you that we are open for the immigrant population.

We want the immigrant population to recognize that we do value them and we want to make sure that they're safe.

Um, these are tough conversations, and being in these positions, oftentimes you don't make anybody happy.

Uh, but at the end of the day, you gotta be able to go to sleep at night knowing that you did what's right.

I I want to commend Chief Todd.

Um, Chief Todd is really a technician.

She doesn't usually like to weigh into the opinions.

And um, the fact that she did weigh into the opinions make me take pause to say that this must be really important to the men and women of the Cleveland Division of Police uh for her to step into the conversation the way that she did, uh, which is one of the reasons why we uh uh recommended that this come back for reconsideration.

So I want to make sure that everybody understand that.

I am gonna ask uh Miss Jimenez if she could add me as a uh sponsor to this legislation.

Um I know it said Mayor Bear, but I do want to clarify.

Uh originally the mayor Bibb was going to put this uh on the border control, and myself, uh along with Councilman Polency said heck no, uh, based on a lot of the feedback we got from council, and the mayor beb decided that he would send it to the legislative uh conversation.

So it did originally come over as a departmental request, but then uh because mayor beb wanna and he does have the right to introduce legislation.

Any member of council and the mayor under our charter has the opportunity to introduce legislation.

So, yes, the mayor uh is involved in this.

His name is on this, he is uh supportive for what I but I understand.

Um, his administration is here, so I take it that he is personally supportive.

I don't speak for him.

Uh, but I do want to say that I am uh adding my name as a sponsor because I think it's important and I know that it's uh it's a tough vote, and I know a lot of people feel very strong feelings about this.

I hope we can continue to have this discussion because now we have the clock is set.

We have until December the 29th in order in order to come up to um with uh a new um RFP in order to make sure actually to make sure that we have an RFP chosen and be chosen by December the 29th.

That's right uh in order to make sure that we um have the safeguards.

So I would encourage everybody to continue to look at um the best practices and continue to have this discussion so that we can continue uh to uh shape this legislative process, and I would encourage everybody to not allow the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Um, and once again, I really want to thank everybody for this robust conversation.

Um the once again procedurally, the finance committee has the opportunity to make this recommendation.

So I am going to ask for a voice acclamation of the finance committee.

Um, all in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Nay.

So the ayes have it unless anybody has any unreadiness from the voice acclamation.

Therefore, the eyes have it.

The uh safety committee, I mean the finance committee is moving it to the full floor for uh recommendation.

Thanks everybody, and we'll go ahead and continue with the safety pieces.

Six ordinance number six eighty-three-2026 as amended stands approved.

Yes.

They're on the uh they're on the tablet and we already passed everything, and we should be good.

Okay.

All right, let's knock out.

We're gonna we're gonna go back in the speed round, everybody.

Um this is resolution number 457-2026 by Councilmember Shaw Bishop Polinsick, Hudson and Griffin by departmental request, uh, an emergency resolution declaring the necessity and intention to appropriate property for the public use of constructing new fire station number 23 for the division of fire located at 1002 Madison Avenue.

Now I want to be clear because I want to make sure I want to be clear, everybody, because this is another very important piece.

Um when we met with the um when we met with the administration, we set up a path to start negotiations, and I want to make sure that everybody understands this process.

What we determined is that we would increase the amount, which we did at the last meeting in the um hopes of the administration having a negotiation with the owners of this um of this uh property, and we increase the amount to the original uh price that was offered up from 683,000 up to about how much 635.

635 up to about 1.2, right?

Uh 1 million 50,000.

1 million 50,000.

So I want to be clear with everybody.

Um, because I want to make sure I set expectations.

Uh we have the ability, if we would like to amend this legislation based upon these negotiations.

But what we agreed upon with the administration is that we will take the step to at least begin to um move this towards um, and I don't even like to even say the word because it really bothers me, I'll be honest with you.

Uh, but the move this to the judicial process.

But what I will tell everyone, especially the um authors who really want this legislation.

I am not as a chair, nor as um this body gonna put us in a position to move forward with this judicial process without knowing for sure that there has been a negotiation that takes place.

I am trying to prevent from all ways possible from this going to court and ending up with legal fees and so many other things that can make the cost of this accelerate.

I uh I, along with many of my colleagues, have a tremendous amount of unreadiness about this.

However, we know that there is a tremendous need for a fire station in this area, but I believe when a property owner has bought a property in good faith and have a plan with an opportunity to utilize it in a in a legal matter and in a matter for them to be able to operate that they have that right.

So I am not a big fan of utilizing this too, and I want to make it clear that I want to see a demonstrable effort in writing from both sides before this moves to the final step in August or September regarding this imminent domain request.

I want to make that clear so that everybody is clear that if true honest negotiations do not take place between now and the next meeting or now in September, I will not as a chair of finance move this to the next step.

So the only reason we are moving it to this step is because we have looked and seen that there has been an initial conversation that has taken place.

However, um I want to make it clear that the only reason we're doing this is when we talk to the administration, we set up a path, but I did make it clear to them as well as the sponsors that this is intended to jump start negotiations, and at the end of the day, we will not move to the final step, which is to actually authorize this to go into litigation if we do not see a honest fair negotiation.

And once again, uh to my council colleague Shaw's question to me earlier, we do have the ability if negotiations take place between the administration and the owners of that property to amend that legislation and increase the amount if that is needed.

So I want to make it clear, and if anybody has any questions for me, please share with me.

I see councilman Shaw is.

Did you want to have a question or any clarification?

I don't know if the administration wanted to start us off by explaining this piece and then we can move into it.

So that'd be good, but I just want to make sure if Councilman Shaw and Councilwoman Hudson, because I know that they're the chief sponsors of this, that they understand my position and the position that I'm trying to make this happen as far as council, because everybody knows I really want to try to make sure that we have a fair process.

And I appreciate that, Council President.

We've made sure we've we're trying to find that common ground, and my understanding is that uh the administration has continued on that.

And this is not the final step, which is why I want you to explain the full process and what we're actually doing today.

Uh yes, please.

Um, Mr.

Councilman, some of us are more involved with eminent domain than others, so it would be really helpful for me just to explain to everybody the three steps um that relate to city council, and then the step that Commissioner de Janeiro has to take during this process as well.

So the first step that we had to do was pass an ordinance which was passed in June to allow us to make an offer to the property owner.

And so the um, as referenced by council president, the original ordinance was drafted in the amount of our appraised value, which was six hundred and thirty-five thousand.

And we amended it at the table after discussion with with council to give us the authority to go up to our original offer, which was a million fifty thousand dollars, and that was based upon the condition of receiving appropriate documentation from the property owner to show that they actually incurred those expenses or had a valuation that that uh documented those uh value, the value of the property at a million fifty thousand.

So that's the first step that happened in June.

The second step that's before you today is a resolution of intent to appropriate.

And um, this has to be passed by city council, which is basically putting the world on notice to say we as a city of Cleveland have the intention of using eminent domain to um purchase a property.

And so this is more of a notice provision through city council that then would lead to Commissioner de Janeiro providing required notices to um any parties that have an interest in the property, and that's outlined in the Ohio revised code how that notice has to work, and that allows us to get to the third step here at City Council, which is an ordinance to actually appropriate the property, um, which would allow us to start the court proceedings.

So we're we're here on the second step, and we're hoping to um proceed with passage of this today because we really do believe that this um resolution pending before city council being approved by safety committee um in June has given us the ability to really get more documents from the property owner as well as to be in better negotiations with the property owner.

We have had um a sit-down meeting um both many before and then one after safety committee.

We've had many emails, many conversations on the phone, and we're not there yet, but we are making progress with receiving information from the property owner so that we can review that information and we can see if any of that information uh reaches the threshold of either that million fifty thousand or if we come back to city council as council president referenced to amend our first ordinance to increase the amount of our offer.

Right now, the property owner has said that they have ordered a second appraisal.

That appraisal is not complete, so we don't have the ability to look at the comparable sales that would be referenced in there to see if it's a valid appraisal or not.

But that's a good sign that they've asked for a second appraisal to be done.

They said that the appraisal was done because of the great disparity between um our appraised value and and their first appraisal.

Their first appraisal came in at a million seven hundred and thirty thousand dollars.

Ours was six hundred and thirty-five thousand.

Um we have um concerns about the comparable sales that they used in that appraisal report, and we're hoping that the new appraisal will be more in line with uh you know Cleveland-based sales and uh uh properties that we think are more comparable to this particular property.

The other thing that's happening is um you you um you you may have heard at safety committee that there was a little bit of um um uncertainty on the part of of the owner on how to document all the costs that went into this property.

So we have asked them to document any agreements that they uh relied upon to purchase shares of this limited liability corporation.

We've received some information um but but not that uh not enough to uh change our our offer, but we continue to have discussions with them.

And um and and with that I have I have a lot of information and Commissioner De Janeiro can can share a lot of information about next steps.

But um we we really feel strongly that the reason we're able to get these documents and have conversations is because this council process is proceeding and that that gives both sides equal footing.

It's not giving us a leg up, but it's certainly not giving them a leg up either.

And so we we hope to have council support today for the passage passage of this resolution of intent to appropriate.

Thank you, Director.

Commissioner, would you like to add any thing just just a quick um note of clarity?

So our initial offer was $725,000, which is the price that was paid for the real estate plus the personal property, and we added $300,000 on top.

So the um the ordinance 368-2026 that authorized us to make the offer was actually amended um from the 635 to 1,025,000, not 1,050,000.

Just wanted to clarify.

Thank you, Commissioner.

Um I have Palencyc and uh municipal relief.

Unless it would come back.

Uh unless it is out of the cameras.

Uh did you want to have a comment, Councilman Connell?

Councilman Conwill has the floor.

Um both sides, use for to do the appraisal, and what did you do to do the highest and best use for that land?

Um through the chair to Councilman Conwell.

We uh contracted with uh Roger Sowers from Sowers Bowie and Associates, who we've used in the past, and the owner hired um Dwight Coomler of Ray Sick and Associates for the first appraisal, which we have a copy of, and then for their second appraisal, um, as director mentioned, they commissioned a second appraisal given the disparity between our appraisal and theirs.

They hired Ritley Huber, uh, I believe James Hubert is doing doing the second report, but we don't have that appraisal yet.

So did you take a look at the second appraisal and took a look at theirs?

What's your background in that?

Dealing with appraisals.

Have you ever done appraisals before?

You ever looked at them, highest and best used to know what we're doing.

To the chair to Councilman Conn.

Well, I'm not an appraiser, but I have a lot of experience in reviewing the work of of various appraisers that we work with.

Um I I will say that the sales comps that were used by the owner's appraiser were not uh there was only one in Cuyoga County.

They were remote.

They were remote in um terms of location and time.

Uh he used some really old comps, so I question the validity of that, but we're we're we're definitely reviewing that information and are working towards closing that gap.

And Councilman Conwell, she's being modest.

Uh uh Commissioner De Jennero is has even when I was the commissioner, the person who would review the appraisals for the department, and um is um is is is skilled at reviewing appraisals.

So with the comps.

So what what are the uh average comp uh in that area as well as with the housing?

And why did it is it's so much a difference in the comps.

And so what are you thinking with your professional uh um opinion to the chair?

Um well as I said through the chair, uh the comps that their appraiser looked at were very different from the comps that our appraiser used, which he looked at buildings that are similar in size, they're you know uh former pharmacies um or or existing pharmacies, you know.

So it's the discrepancy between you know um the different types of properties, the remoteness of the sale, like he used their appraiser use some sales from 2022, so a lot can change between those.

A lot to change.

Pardon me?

A lot can change.

Yeah, so it's just the the data is not the in my opinion, their appraisers data does not support the assertive value of 1,730,000 dollars.

Wow.

So do you have their comps with you?

I I do have the reports, yes.

Can you show it to us?

Can I see it?

I haven't looked at uh comms German when we were in college a long time ago.

Yeah, I had appraisal.

I had appraisal when we were back in um school, man.

So through the chairman of the councilman, the the interesting part about the comparable sales for this situation is that our appraiser, all of the five comparable sales were former drug stores, and we we all know around our city there's drug stores closing right and left.

And so all of ours were drug stores, and three of ours were in the city of Cleveland, and two were outside of the city of Cleveland, one was in Madison, one was in Willowick.

Okay.

Now the the seller's appraisal.

Um of the six comparable sales that they had.

Not a comparable market.

Um the other ones, there was one in Erie County, the one in Summit County, one in Tuscararas County, uh, one in start, and two in Stark County.

Now, several of those were uh former drug stores, but you know, the one in Erie County was a former standalone Pier 1 imports.

I mean, we we really don't feel that these comparable sales are actually comparable to a property that's at West Boulevard in Madison.

So did you look at the other comps?

There's um someone else had taken independent um appraiser with the um the their comps as well and compare and contrast with the comps that you have now?

Uh so we're we are waiting on that second appraisal.

So the ones that I spoke of was our appraisal and then their first appraisal.

We're waiting to receive what that second appraisal is, and we're hoping that the comps are more applicable to our situation.

But but in relation to what we received, yes, we reviewed those comps, we looked at where they were, what they were, what size they are, what kind of markets they were in to determine that we don't feel comfortable offering taxpayer money to the amount of their appraisal because we don't think that that's a good use of public funds.

You don't think?

Um let's say in the long run, let's say you build his fire station.

You know, fire stations increase your comps.

Fire stations, other amenities around it, housing increased your comps, um, schools increase the comps.

So how far did you guys go uh in and uh in analyzing it?

Mr.

Chairman of the Councilman, but we have to look at the current conditions.

Yeah, but in the long run and the long run conditions can change those comps.

Yes, but that would impact future appraisals.

But you know what, you know you're gonna do it.

The current appraisal has to look at what's there today, not what might be there in the future.

So you say it might it might mean you did you're not going to build one, or you don't know if you're gonna build a uh fire station there or not.

You say it might.

For the appraiser, yeah.

Anything that isn't there today is a might.

So the highest best, your highest and best use was what you guys came up with right now.

That's what you're saying, right?

The highest and best use of the appraisal reports, right?

Correct me if I'm wrong, Commissioner, is for retail, which is what it currently is.

And so that's what you use the retail.

Both appraisers use that as the highest of best use.

Man, I ain't did this in since we were in school.

We had to do it as in planning in a long time.

It's been a long time.

He was in elementary school.

I was a warrant.

But I can look at it, you know, still read it.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Councilman Michael Palency, then Councilman Richard Starr.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman, my honorable colleagues.

I'm here to support the legislation as we did in the safety committee.

But this is what I want to raise to the administration.

And I walked the site.

This is and I am posing this to the administration, those of you who are not just at the table, but the other members of the administration.

Where the city failed miserably, in my opinion on this entire issue, is when that property first was closed by CVS, who if it was CVS or a LLC that owned the building, I'm not clear.

That's when the city should have moved on the property.

Just as we should have moved on 170 acres next to Hopkins International Airport that Brother Jimmy bought.

Okay.

Um next to a landlocked airport, 170 acres, and the city doesn't move.

So the bigger question needs to be addressed here.

We have competent people sitting at the table.

Where is the planning?

Where is the big picture?

We're seeing time and time again that the city is not looking at the big picture and not planning ahead.

We should connect we've controlled the 170 acres out there.

We could have controlled this site and got it for a fraction of what we're gonna have to pay for it now.

And so do I support a new firehouse at this location?

Yes, it is terribly needed on behalf of the division of fire.

But my brothers and sisters um and to the administration, I don't know what city planning does.

I don't know what the people at the airport do, but man, I'm telling you, uh there are terrible mistakes being made here, and this is I think this symbolizes it to me how we have to be more proactive when we do planning for the city.

We cannot be reactive.

This is being reactive, but I but I we have no other choice but to support it because this seems to be from my walking the site, Mr.

Chairman, seems to be the best location for a firehouse, but we have to be fair with the property owners at this point.

We have no other choice.

We have to be fair and equitable with them.

So I'm here to support the legislation.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilman Richard Starr.

Mr.

Chairman.

Uh I I just need to respond to that point because we did bring it up at Safety Committee.

Yes.

So the property was purchased by uh the current property owner in January of 2024.

Our fire and EMS modernization plan wasn't completed until the summer of 2025.

We welcome the opportunity, hopefully in August to present it to your safety committee because we're fine-tuned it and we're ready to roll it out.

But we needed that plan before we start buying properties willy-nilly for fire stations throughout our system.

But now we know that station needs to be um rebuilt because we can't properly separate the zones that the firemen need there for safety on on that small footprint.

And this, after looking at many sites, this is the only site in the right service area that can meet that need.

But Mr.

Chairman, Jamie, you're very talented guy.

What the point is I'm I'm saying we gotta think years ahead.

Yes.

We have to think years ahead.

If we don't think years ahead, we continue to make mistakes here.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

I understood.

Thank you.

Uh Councilman Richard Starr.

No, I'll just um one couple quick questions.

I did just as we was going through this committee, um, I did just get some notification that um there was a second appraisal done that was sent over to the administration on Monday.

Is that correct through the chair?

Uh through the chair of the councilman.

So they provided us a letter with a value with no backup, and they said the full appraisal will be coming.

But we have not received it.

We followed up this week, even as late as last night to say, hey, council committees tomorrow.

Can you provide us with that appraisal?

And the answer is no.

And I would say that based upon the comparable sales of the first appraisal, we really need to see the full appraisal to know if that's a valid uh uh valuation or not.

All right, then to the um council president through the director rather than anyone at the table.

So currently, you are in good standing in terms of negotiating possibly to purchase this um location through the chair.

Uh through the chair to the councilman, we continue to reach out.

We continue to reach out, they they continue to dialogue with us.

What good standing means, I don't know, but but our doors are open and we continually ask for information and and receive and give information.

So when I say good standings from my my terminology of good standing meaning um you're still negotiating, y'all are communicating, y'all are having meetings, um, sending some documents, acting for my documents back and forth.

The the channel of the chain and the channel of communication continuously um happens.

There's not no dead block where one saying, Well, I'm done talking to you, and now we need a middle person to try to get everyone back to the table.

So y'all having ongoing communication through the chair?

Through the chair to the councilman, that's correct.

Some of the information that we're requesting, um, they're giving us reasons why they don't wish to share some of it as you know, providing what could be considered uh, you know, private financial information to show that they actually purchase the shares of that limited liability company.

I I get that concern, but if if that's gonna be a basis for evaluation, we need to see that that that purchase agreement was followed through with.

You and I can sign an agreement and choose not to move forward with it.

So we need to ensure that if we're basing expenditures of public funds on an agreement that that was actually followed through with.

Okay.

So um your hope is if you can potentially put a timetable on it.

Your hope or your goal is to possibly get a deal done this year to the chair.

Uh through the councilman, if we're able to negotiate it, absolutely this year.

If it goes into the courts, then that's a long process that nobody wants to go into.

And the councilman's made it really clear, all parties are gonna spend uh you know, time expert witnesses and whatnot.

So the goal is really to negotiate a fair price.

And through the chair to well, my colleagues who's wards in this this new location can um fire station will be at.

I know one is coming out, it's leaving from Councilwoman Hudson Ward and is moving to Councilman Tam May Shaw.

I don't know who drew these maps.

Because they right down the street, but I don't know.

That is very close.

Who drew these maps?

But that's another conversation.

That's what they say.

Blame it O'Gribble.

Um my thought is my thoughts is um one, like I mentioned when we talked earlier this year.

I'm not a big advocate for eminent domain because I think of myself, if I was in their shoes or anyone snatching something from me without me just negotiating the sale.

I mean, this is this is America.

I bought it, you didn't want it.

Don't try to use your laws against me.

I seen um that I dealt with an issue within planning earlier this year when the the planning department was trying to use a law, an ordinance that was passed on surface lot parking against the church.

And I'm like, there's other laws that the federal government have in place that do not allow you to use your own zoning to be able to base your decisions in opposition of what a church is trying to do.

I just don't want to be in the in the middle of a battle when I say, hey, it was a vacant, the city didn't purchase, somebody else purchased it.

Now their price is their price.

I'd rather us just negotiate and be able to get it through.

Um other than us having to use a tool just to say we snatch something from somebody from my view.

Now I don't think that's I don't think that's the intent, and I don't think that's my colleagues' intent.

I spoke to them.

Their goal is to make sure they get a fire station.

They also um gave me information and knowledge that um your department has gone around and looked at other sites in the area to see if there's other locations potentially, and what you are are are articulating here is that that site is probably the primary location for prime opportunity to build and expand on the current fire station given the condition that they have.

So I wanted to support getting a new fire station, but it's just hard for me to believe in snatching somebody's property because I will give you what I believe is your fair price.

When I believe if I bought it, I can sell it what I want as a nah.

If you don't want to pay for what I want to get it for, then that's on you.

But if I want to triple it, that's on me because it's mine's and and I believe that is just something that's bad.

But I do want to support the initiative of getting a new fire station, and I'm hoping you negotiate um with this new with this this owner, and we write reach a resolution without even having to go to court or use the tool of eminent domain.

And I yell, council president.

Thank you, and I agree with you.

We actually agreeing on everything today, councilman.

It must be my day today, huh?

Council President, you see what happened.

You see what happened when I don't come to these useless, unnecessary committees during the summer.

Just give me my one.

Council will be Nicky Hudson.

Did he score?

Thank you, Council President.

Um, I just wanna uh reiterate that I do not want to take anybody's property.

Um it is because negotiations at this point have been ongoing for over a year and a half.

Um that is why the the tool of eminent domain has been brought into the discussion.

Um I want to see a fire station built as quickly as possible.

I do not want to see this drag out in court for the next year, year and a half.

I would really like to see a deal be made, you know, it as soon as possible, you know, maybe before our August meeting.

I think that would be fantastic.

I think that passing this legislature, I'm sorry, this resolution today would help us get to that goal um quickly, um, faster than if we don't pass it.

And um uh through through the chair uh to Director DeRossa, um, would you say that since we passed the uh purchase ordinance in June, that it helped you with uh furthering negotiations with the property owner?

Uh through the chair and the councilmanwoman, uh yes, I absolutely believe that this process has helped.

Um, not just with um the previous team, but because they've engaged with a lawyer who um is part of their team that we hadn't met with before, and somebody that um I believe brings new um uh kind of perspective to this type of transaction, and we welcome that.

Um we also continue to work, you know, meet directly with the owner and his previous representative.

But yes, this has absolutely I I think helped us at least um focus on uh really trying to get the end result of negotiating a price.

Thank you.

And do you believe that passing this resolution today will then again um help further incentivize uh negotiations to continue to move towards an agreement?

Uh through the chairman of the councilwoman, absolutely.

I feel if we don't pass it, our negotiations will stall.

Thank you.

I I just want to emphasize that not passing this would mean that it would take that much longer for our um the safety workers at station 23 to have a new healthy fire station, which is I think what everybody wants here at the table.

Council, the administration.

Um we just want a uh a safe and healthy uh place for our firefighters and our EMS workers at station 23.

That's the primary purpose of this, and the quickest way is to utilize eminent domain um in reaching an agreement with the current property owners.

Um I yield, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Councilwoman Hudson.

Just in closing, I want to reiterate um I am going to specifically request, and I'll probably do it in the form of a letter, that I would like to see the good faith efforts from both sides in writing that something is taking place before we move to the next step of this legislation.

And I want all of the colleagues to be clear.

Um we are not going to rush this.

We are not going to uh come down on this with a hammer.

We're going to make sure that this is a fair process.

I agree with the councilwoman's approach that everybody wants a fire station.

I do have a couple of questions.

You just mentioned it, and I was going to ask you the same question.

Every dog on Councilman Jones just said it.

Every dog on the drugstore, right aid, Walgreens, CVS in the city of Cleveland is closing.

We have horrible police stations.

We have other fire stations that are deplorable.

And why don't we so first of all, I'm not a big fan of eminent domain, but if this is such an urgency for this location, don't we have other locations that are just as urgent?

And that's one question that I have for you.

Uh yes, so Mr.

Chairman, we um through the um fire and EMS modernization plan, which took about two years to really analyze all of our um fire stations.

Um we've determined where we need new locations, and we will soon be hopefully presenting it uh at safety committee.

Um, how we've addressed all of the needed locations.

Now we don't have council authority, but we want to present the plan and and uh present to city council where those locations are, some of which are former school sites, um, which are a much more affordable option than purchasing a former you know retail site.

Well, that was the other thing I was gonna ask you, because I know you were thinking about looking at a couple of the schools for some of these safety centers, which I think that is always good because the way the schools were always built, they were built to be similar similar to like the downtowns of each neighborhood.

Yes.

So uh hopefully that does take root.

Um, and that's something I want to see happen.

The last but not least, um one of the things that really hurt me through this process is that is my understanding that is one person that has passed away and another person that has become gravely ill.

Why do we have our workers in there now?

Why don't we move them now in temporarily until we find a new location?

They should not be staying in a subpar facility now.

Um, because if we have you know potential hazards that are causing illness for our workers now, why would we even risk having them in there for potentially another year?

Why don't we find a temporary swing location until we actually settle this dispute?

Through the chair of uh through the council president.

Uh it's a great point, great question.

Obviously, the safety of our firefighters and all of our public safety uh first responders are priority for this administration, Mayor Bibb and myself and the folks here at this table now.

Um we have uh systems in place at the particular station, uh fire station number 23 um to vent uh some of the fumes out, and we're gonna put additional uh systems in uh as we go through this monetization uh process now.

Uh and as we're we're we're finishing that up at least uh through MOCAP.

Um the the we're finishing that up, but we have systems in place now.

Uh and it's important um again the safety of our first responders is priority.

I know I know you know that, um, but uh I want folks understand that um we don't have any information that that you know that that caused those particular thefts.

I know that uh again I want to be insensitive.

I don't want to be insensitive to that.

And I understand that's why we have the systems in place on all our facilities, right?

And we're gonna improve the system in that particular facility as well, coupled with what we're doing through MOCAP with the monetization plan and also Leo Partle and what they're doing currently with the five police stations.

Uh those stations are going to be um um uh renovated, renewed, different uh systems in it and so forth, and we're in the process of looking to do the same thing with the fire stations until we can actually get this particular situation resolved and hopefully have a fire station at the the current at the state uh location down the street on Madison Avenue.

So we are um doing what we can right now to make sure that our firefighters and first responders are safe, and then um having this new facility will give us the vote zones that we need to make sure that our firefighters are now within those uh areas uh where the with the fumes.

Well, that's even more impetus to try to hurry up and get this done.

And that's one of the reasons why, you know, one of the reasons that I agreed to increase that amount because I I feel like Councilman Starr and many of my colleagues, I have a tremendous amount of unreadiness and unsettlety in trying to somebody who took a building that basically they were asked to buy in order to improve the community because it has been sitting at derelict for several years, and now um I understand the urgency, but it would to me be best to not drag it through the courts for two to three years and having those workers sitting there for two to three more years, and while everybody tries to figure out what the courts are gonna do.

The courts do not have a rocket docket.

So we all know that that thing could sit there for 18 to two years and legal fees will add up, and then the next thing we know, um, even though I know it was not a city of Cleveland property, but the last imminent domain case that I followed closely was uh the over there in Irish Town Bend when the port authority uh had an imminent domain case against the George family, and the George family wound up ending up pretty good with signage on opportunity corridor, other type of property, and pretty much made a pretty good penny off of that.

And I just don't want to put us in a position where these workers are in a harm way because that's the number one priority, and then number two, where we continue to let costs escalate and time constraints, which means that materials go up, costs of construction go up, and then um you know who knows if you know who's gonna be the next council and the next mayor if that becomes a priority, and then we mess around and lose this opportunity.

So I I hope that everybody understands the sense of urgency, and I want to reiterate to this council that I will not in good faith move this forward unless I have something in writing from all parties stating that a good faith effort of having negotiation has taken place and um and and go from there.

Okay.

All right.

Um that being said, um resolution number 457-2020.

Oh, Councilman Shaw.

Yeah, thank you, Chair.

I just wanted to wrap up a couple questions.

Wanted to make sure I appreciate everyone's um support as we move through this process and appreciate the administration moving forward on the negotiations.

I wanted to just um make it clear.

I think we've made it clear from council's side that the amount that we authorized before does not limit the administration to those that amount in the negotiations.

Can you verify that through the chair to the uh through the chair, yes, absolutely.

We understand that um you know it's based upon fair market value.

So if that can be documented, and if it's higher than that, that the the previous legislation, then we would come back and amend it.

Absolutely.

Thank you, Chair.

I stated that earlier, Councilman Councilman, I'm willing to make sure that if it's a fair market value and it can show this council that uh it's been fair market value, and that's what everybody um has looked at, then we'll be willing to amend that legislation in order to accommodate that.

Okay.

Thank you.

All right, thank you.

Uh therefore resolution number 457-2026 stands approved.

Please keep us abreast.

And once again, you will probably be getting something from me in writing stating what I would like to see as um good faith effort on that moving forward.

Yes.

Thank you.

Uh ordinance number 684-2026 by council members Polencick and Griffin by Departmental Request, an emergency ordinance authorizing the Director of Public Safety to apply for and accept a grant from the United States Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Assistance for the FY 2025 Burn Justice Assistance Grant, local solicitation and authorizing one or more contracts with Cuyahoga County and the cities of Euclid, Parma, Cleveland Heights, East Cleveland, Maple Heights, and Garfield Heights needed to implement the grant.

Yes, sir, it's uh stated uh uh the RNS number is uh 684-2026.

It's for uh total amount of uh 700, uh 711,169 dollars, and it's broken down with the city of Cleveland getting the bulk of that, uh those those dollars.

As a matter of fact, the uh total for the city of Cleveland is 532,562 dollars, and it's broken down to uh the uh the rest of the amount is to uh Kyogre County, Cleveland Heights, East Cleveland, Uniclid Parma, Maple Heights, Garfield Heights for total of the total I mentioned before.

Um the vast majority of his use for um personnel, that's the four fingerprint examiners that we have, and one intel analyst, um, and then uh others broken down by $18,000, uh 47 40 dollars for training and conferences and equipment, which is a poll camera.

Uh for that total we talked about of $532,562.

Um the the grant ends uh uh September 30th of 28th, and we've received this grant since 2005.

And have any questions uh Don and I can answer.

Just briefly, uh and uh just is this the only way that you hire fingerprint examiners?

And are these the ones that go out when there are burglaries and other things like that?

Through the chair, the the ones that go out for burglaries are SIU detectives are actually uh swamp police officers.

Uh these particular individuals, the four fingerprint examiners are civilians and their salaries are through this particular grant.

The reason that I asked that question, and welcome, Ms.

Hart Song, good to see you.

Always good to see you at the table.

She brings a lot of money into the city, y'all.

Yes, she does.

Uh but uh the reason I asked that question is because I had a couple of major break-ins, and then of course, you know what happened at Providence House this uh past week, where there were bullets shot through the actual window of a crisis nursery where children and babies are at, and I'm irate, I'm very upset.

And one of the things that has been disturbing to me is that until yesterday, um, I don't know if anybody came out today.

This happened a week ago, and nobody has still come out to collect evidence, and nobody has still been out there to do much.

Um fingerprints, evidence or anything.

So are we understaffed in the SIU unit?

And if this is civilians, then can't we maybe deploy civilians to do some of that um evidence collection or what?

Through the chairman, I'm sorry to hear that that happened.

I'll have uh I'll talk with the uh division of police about the response relative to the Providence House.

Um these uh fingerprints examiners actually they don't take the prints, the laden prints that's done by the detectives.

They examine, they look at the prints and so forth.

Yes, they're they're the ones that that's responsible for that, whereas the detectives are the ones that respond to the um actual uh scenes to process the scenes and gather the latent prints.

Um the division uh they're they're busy to get uh um uh called for various scenes uh to process them.

But in this particular case situation, I would encourage if you uh the uh detectives are not responding what you believe a uh reasonable time to reach out to uh the district commander.

Uh the district commander was at the meeting two nights ago.

Okay.

And the district commander said I got to call SA SIU.

I'll follow up with that.

So I'll follow up.

Um first thing ran across my mind is we are understaffed.

And and and one of the reasons that I know that the fingerprints are important, and what made me think about that is because uh an elderly lady on Woodstock got her house broken into, and we kind of think we know who did it, which is a repeat offender, which means that I know if you run those fingerprints, you're gonna be able to find out that who is actually the culprit who broke into that house.

So it's just important for us to be expeditious in order to try to get that information.

Understood.

All right, Councilman Pillensett.

Mr.

Chairman, we heard the piece of legislation in safety and we supported it unanimously.

Thank you.

Seeing no other questions, or move.

Thank you.

Seeing all the questions, ordinance number 684-2026 stands approved.

Um I like something that the finance director said earlier.

Who's our number two and how are they coming along?

Because I'm afraid if we lose Ms.

Hart Song, nobody knows how much money we'll lose in this city.

There's no number two to number to Don Dawn.

I can't Don cannot be.

She's not going anywhere about the city.

I know she's not gonna read it.

And if she just hit the lottery or decided to move to Florida with her husband, I just know what we would lose.

And I just hope that we're prepared for stuff like that.

She can smell money.

She knows how to bring in the money.

All right, thanks.

Thank you.

All right.

Uh next is ordinance number 698-2026 as amended by Council Members Polencick and Griffin by Departmental Request and Emergency Ordinance to amend sections 405.01, 405.03, 405.06, 405.08, 405.10, 405.11 of the codified ordinances of Cleveland, Ohio, 1976, as amended by various ordinances to supplement the codified ordinances by enacting new section 40514 and to repeal sections 405.05, 405.09, 405.12, all relating to vehicle impoundment and towing operations administered by the Department of Public Safety.

And there has been an amendment.14.

Number two, in section one, add amended section 405.03C.

Line three, before in their possession, insert no longer.

Number three, in section one, add amended section 405.06A2.

Line two, strike 50.

In quotation 75, and insert 50.

And in line three, strike 50 and add 75 and insert 50.

And date 6526 by Mary Cornley, assistant director of law.

Uh Director.

Thank you, uh, Council President.

Uh Assistant Director Shachner, who did all the the uh research and and put together this particular um amendment will uh uh talk to the uh the ordinance itself.

All right, thank you, uh Council President to the rest of council.

What this ordinance essentially does it it amends uh a bunch of sections in chapter 405, which uh modernizes obsolete administrative provisions, recalibrates the telling impound storage and preparation fees to reflect current operating costs.

It repeals three provisions made obsolete by current legal and operational developments, including a probable cause hearing framework that predated the parking violations bureau and an obsolete bicycle impound provision and a vehicle diversion program that's no longer your use.

And it enacts a new section 405.14, which requires the director of public state to review chapter fees prior to initiating competitive bidding for telling storage or disposal contracts.

There is also an amendment that was proffered by Councilman Casey that re we were initially were going to raise the cost of recovering a stolen vehicle to $75, which is uh again a reduction from the 190 normal fee.

Um what that amendment that uh Councilman Casey proposed and was accepted would just keep it at $50 for recovered stolen vehicle fee.

And just as a reminder, all vehicles that are towed for the purpose of uh evidence processing and are held and the person is a victim of that crime and that vehicle is being held for that purpose, um those fees are also waived.

Okay.

Thank you.

Uh just briefly, when's the last time we changed these rates?

Uh through just to you, Council President.

I think uh Sergeant Don again again, right?

Yeah, Sergeant John has been.

Yes, sir.

To the uh chair, uh the last time these fees were adjusted was 2012.

2012.

So it's been uh 14 years before we done these.

Wow, that's a long time.

I want to acknowledge my friend who has been here for the last year, advocating for these, and before I turn it over to Mike, I want to ask him to stand.

I forget his name.

What's his name again?

Mike Clark Clark.

Dave Clark.

Dave been here for every for the last year and a half advocating for this, and I know this got to be his lucky day to day because he runs a big towing company, and uh he's been saying, hey, these have been stuck for a long time, and I'm glad that he got together with the chair to be able to move the needle on this.

So appreciate you, Dave.

Okay.

All right.

Uh Councilman Pules.

Yes, Mr.

Chairman.

We heard it at length uh in the safety committee.

We learned a lot.

What we did learn is a result of electric vehicles.

The whole way we tow cars has changed.

Uh and with the equip different types of equipment and not just uh electric vehicles, but other uh other types of new vehicles as well.

It has put many challenges on the tow industry as it retains to the present vehicles they have.

So we listened at length and we uh um acted appropriately passed it unanimously.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Do we have any other questions regarding 698-2026 as amended, stands approved?

I want to thank Councilman Casey.

I thought that was a very good amendment to move it to 90, because a lot of people um that's one of your worst nightmares getting your car stolen, and then the compound that they have to pay a big fee is a hard, hard, hard thing to swallow.

Thank you.

I think that's all.

Thanks, Director Drummond.

You earned your paycheck today.

No, we're not even close.

All right.

Next one is thank you, Dave.

Uh next one is ordinance number, and this is a council ordinance.

Uh Max Ms.

Leonard, if she could come to the table and Ms.

Mercement.

Uh ordinance number 556-2026, as amended by Councilmember Slife, Casey, Santana, and Griffin, an emergency ordinance declaring a moratorium on the review and issuance of zoning permits, certificates of occupancy, and other license or permit applications, including licenses or permits issued by the Department of Public Utilities for data centers in the city of Cleveland.

And the amendment states there is no legal objection to this legislation if amended as follows.

One insert the following whereas clause after the existing ninth whereas clause to read as follows.

Whereas data centers are a principal use in standalone facilities and buildings, may negatively impact residential properties and the availability and use of land for other types of development that better serve the needs of the community.

And number two, in section one, line two, after issuance of insert all use building and line four after Department of Public Utilities strike four data centers for a period, commending on commending on the effective date, it should say commencing, commencing on the effective date of this ordinance and ending on either the effective date of an ordinance regulating or prohibiting data centers on May 1, 2027, whichever date occurs first.

An insert for the expansion of an existing standalone data center for establishment of a data center as a principal use in a standalone facility or building for a period commencing on the effective date of this ordinance and ending on the earlier of one, the effective date of an ordinance regulating or prohibiting data centers, or three months after the effective date of this ordinance, unless extended by council for an additional three months.

If council determines that additional time is needed to further review and determine what action is appropriate for the city.

This is dated 515 26, signed by Stephanie Melnick, Chief Corporate Counsel.

Hi.

Thank you for having us and um largely here to answer questions.

The intent of the amendment is to add specificity around principal use standalone facilities.

Um three months to be able to get guardrails in place and make sure that any data centers that are in our city um are working for Clevelanders and make sense and have the right guardrail.

So they we can encourage economic development while putting the proper protections in place.

But three of us are happy to take any questions.

All right, councilman.

Sure, thank you.

Um I've spoken at length with a number of you about this.

Um, but my as uh the representative of council on the planning commission, it became clear to me that as this uh land use has grown and evolved, it became very clear to me that our zoning code, which in many ways is stuck uh in previous decades, just did not have uh an answer for how we would address the proposal for some of the large-scale standalone uh data centers that we've seen prop up around Ohio and around the country uh within most of our zoning code, it would probably be treated as light industrial, which can be very closely adjacent to uh resident residences as large parts of the city move away from the traditional zoning code into the form-based code.

Uh there's actually an interpretation that said in those areas.

This could be considered to be something akin to an office use, and and I think that most of us would agree that having a large server facility taking up a lot of space in what's meant to essentially be a live work commercial district was not really the intent of the zoning code.

I've had a lot of people along the way ask questions, well, what about this type of use?

What about that?

And I've been very clear that the intention of this uh moratorium is not to say uh hard no forever, but to put a pause so we can do a zoning analysis that's already underway.

I'm happy to allow the administration to explain the forward progress that's already been made, uh, just so we can understand how we can differentiate between a say a million square foot facility versus uh a small server room, which uh functionally have have many similarities in what's inside, but are very different economic uses and very different scale at the human level.

Uh the amendments that were mentioned were uh just briefly to uh uh and not to repeat Kate because she said it better than I can, but to add some further definition that we really are focused on these large scale facilities that we're not worried about, you know, the CMSD has uh uh room in a building where the servers are kept.

That's not the intent of this, it's to talk about you know where the principal use is to have a large data center and also to narrow down the timeline uh from twelve months to three months to uh allow this work to occur more expeditiously.

Um I'll add, and if Councilman Casey would like to add anything uh beyond what I say, I I'd welcome it.

Uh, but this was routed over to utilities because there's also a recognition that these are seen to be high utility users, and there's an interest in understanding how these uses align with just the strength of all of our utility networks, whether they're owned by the city of Cleveland or whether we are customers of uh for-profit investor-owned utilities, uh, and trying to understand the ramifications of sud uh a theoretical sudden influx of large users and how that could have negative uh impacts on the residents of the city of Cleveland.

Uh so that's that's the idea behind this.

Uh it is not to, as I said, to say no forever, but it's to understand what this land use is and how it aligns with the city of Cleveland.

Councilman Casey, is there anything you'd like to add?

No, we're good.

We got a working group together and we'll have more information to bring forward to the to the council in September or October, some sometime around there.

Thank you.

So um I'm glad that there's a working group already in place.

I do have just a couple of questions because I'll be honest with you.

I'm learning more about data centers and it almost um first of all, just to the listening public.

If you use these things, I know everybody hates data centers, but your information doesn't just go to up in the cloud, it actually goes to some kind of data center.

So this is a very um touchy topic, and like I said, I actually just uh you know had some conversations with some leaders across the country, and everybody's grappling with this because we really weren't prepared for the moment and we really need to put the right zoning in place, but we also want to make sure we move expeditiously because this is a business opportunity that um not only attracts just the data centers, it also is the only way to attract some of the big ticket um competition that we have to try to get aerospace jobs and other things here in the city of Cleveland.

I do want to make sure that we understand through the working group how we do more things behind the meter, um, and as it makes sure that they're more responsible.

I've been listening closely to uh Senate candidate Brown and some of his ideas around how we can make sure that we uh contain these data centers, how we deal with noise pollution, how we can prevent any electric bills going up.

Um but I do think that it would be good, even if they're not a part of our everyday working group with the city, to maybe invite some of these business owners that have already proposed some data centers.

I know that nobody likes that big one that they were just trying to do over there in uh Slavic village, but maybe they have some thoughts and maybe if one thing that we could do is invite some of those business owners and construction workers that came and testified at the at the uh hearing that councilman Casey had uh that can actually come and give some input because we also um never want to be a city that does not try to attract jobs.

So um this is something that's kind of a very um, you know, we got to protect our community, but we also need to make sure that we're not just closing Cleveland off for business.

So um I know that um these guys are already on top of that, but I just hope that at least one or two of those sessions invite some of these business owners like Greater Cleveland Partnership, who have Freddie Collyer over there who used to be a planning director here, and maybe he has some thoughts on how this can actually help and how we can expedite some of this and I just appreciate the work that gone into this.

Councilman Casey, Mr.

Chairman, we have we have uh a very robust group of people that that we're talking to, uh including developers, including labor, um pro-data center people, anti-data center people.

So I think by the time we're done with our round of uh education and communication with everybody, we'll be able to come back with a very vast variety of knowledge and information to uh to the council working uh the administration and council is working close together on this, and we're not excluding anybody, including just random emails that I'm getting from people, we're just forwarding them on, we want to hear from everybody.

So um I think we're doing our due diligence on this one.

Absolutely, and councilman, I I I want to commend you and Councilman Sly for getting ahead start on this for us.

Um I just really hope that time is of the essence.

You know, I'm learning a lot about business these days and moving at the speed of business is important, and um, even though we have to be more deliberate as government to protect our citizens, but I do want to make sure that we don't lose major opportunities as this goes forward, and hopefully we can have something that we all can live with, especially with so many best practices out there uh by September, October, so that we can live with this and move forward.

I know that um I appreciate you also keeping this in a uh three to six month timeline so that we can really try to move expeditiously on this.

Uh uh Councilman Michael Palency, Councilwoman House Jones.

Thank you, thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

And um, and I think this is critical important.

I'm looking at some of the um the phone calls I received on this issue.

And my question is this I want some confirmation out of the administration.

Had the had the administration been negotiating with data center, data center operate with in participation or connection with the Department of Public Utilities.

Thank you, Councilman, through the chair.

Um, are you speaking about the the proposed um Slavic village site?

Yes.

So uh about a year ago they uh brought to out a proposal um to talk very generally with no site tied to it.

Okay.

Um and there is a letter of that there would be conversations about it.

No site was attached to that, no formal commitment was made.

Um and then we had not heard from them again.

So there was no correspondence between a city and a developer supporting a data center at that site.

At that site, no, not that I'm aware of.

Or other data centers that are.

I think there was a broad discussion about it, but no site had been determined.

Okay.

Um because I'm concerned by what some people are alleging that the city was negotiating privately with data centers, contrary to what we were being told publicly.

No.

Okay, so you you're saying at the table that it was not the case.

Correct.

There was a broad conversation about a data center.

There is no site identified.

Okay.

And the only thing is, Mr.

Chairman, I would ask is you the discussions I've had with you.

I am hoping that we're gonna bring in outside consultants to advise us on this issue.

Because I'm not aware of anybody that at this table or Nabadi who's an electrical engineer.

So um there's some who might think they are, but uh the the fact of the matter is we're not.

And so I hope we're gonna get outside advice so we can make the right decisions on this issue.

Okay.

What you're talking about is more abido, and I know that this is gonna be very a touchy situation because um they felt that they were negotiating.

I'm just gonna be honest, and that's kind of the inclination that they've had is that they actually thought that they were encouraged by the city.

Well, that's what I'm saying.

I will tell you the the hard part about getting subject matter experts about um data centers is just like we just dealt with the flock camera situation, these things are popular until they're not popular.

Right.

And all of a sudden now, after major catastrophes, people are starting to back up off of them.

Even some of the same people that were originally promoting them.

So trying to find subject matter experts is always going to be uh difficult.

And I I will open up to Councilman Casey and others who might be able to give us some ideas, but it's you know, this is one of those emerging things that um I think that uh we just gotta be prepared for the moment.

And uh and I hear you we'll look at who we can get to work with that, okay?

Okay.

Because Mr.

Chairman, it's just like we're seeing even it's become a major issue in the United States Senate race, the issue of data centers.

I just want to make sure that we are having all the information possible.

Then it's up to us to make a decision.

But I I want to make sure we're not operating in the dark.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

All right, thank you.

Councilwoman Stephanie House Jones.

Uh greeting um uh to the chair to the team.

Can how are we defined data?

How um what is the actual definition of a data center?

Just while you guys are waiting for that, I do have a chart, councilwoman.

I'll give you one too, but I'm gonna let them answer it.

But I've been researching this and someone gave me a chart that showed a different skills, and I think I'm gonna pass that out to everybody.

No, so I've the reason why I'm asking this question is let me be more clear.

Um, what is the definition of a data center according to the City of Cleveland legal standard?

Uh through the uh chair, council president, uh to the councilwoman.

Uh the the data center definition is within the moratorium.

It's in included in there.

Um, but the ultimate definition is part of what we're working on as within the working group to define it specifically and where in the city it would be most appropriate along with any other standards.

Say that again.

So what is it?

Through through the uh council president to the councilwoman.

I don't have the moratorium directly in front of me right now, um, but it is defined uh in the moratorium as data center as defined as a uh principal use.

Principal use uh uh in a standalone building or facility is the the piece in the moratorium.

And okay, so let me ask more clarifying question.

So it okay.

So I'm I'm that is very vague.

So it I'm looking at that's not a definition.

That's not it's just as for expansion of a standalone data center or establishment of a data center as a principal use.

I I'm like really trying to figure out that's not a definition.

That's telling what can or cannot be done, but that's not a definition.

Through the chair, um, I think it's an important question and part of why we need the moratorium to be able to add specificity.

Um there's frankly, there's a lot of data center can encompass a lot of different things.

And adding the specificity in our code to define different uh megawattage, different um all of that is really important to get right, and that's part of what we're grappling with, and the necessity the necessity of the moratorium right now, so we can add that clarification.

Could I could I add some to that?

Um so the current zoning code in the absence of a pure definition basically goes off of like an analogy.

So think of if you have uh you can have an event center and then you have a restaurant, and the restaurant can have a room that you can rent out for like a private birthday party, but that doesn't make it an event center that's still a restaurant that just has a private room versus an event center, like the renting out is the whole business, right?

It's not an ancillary aspect of it.

Right now, I think the challenge with data centers is we are seeing data move from this ancillary side use into being the purpose.

So now we're having to look at it by analogy.

And when we don't have a pure definition, which is what we are ultimately working towards in this process, we have to find out what is it like and what a data center in being a large hyperscale facility now becomes to feel more industrial, so it becomes akin to an industrial use, or in the form-based code, it's the the language of that says it's more akin to an office.

So it's if you're asking the exact right question.

The problem is we don't have a pure definition.

It makes an effort in the whereas clauses of this moratorium to say what we're talking about, but coming up with the permanent definition is a key aspect of this work whole happening over the next three months.

Okay.

Um so the Okay, so it'll be over the next three months.

And I'm asking this specifically because there is an existing data center that is H5 data center.

They are proposing an expansion.

Uh I have talked to the um the the team.

Um we are planning this, you know.

Anyway, I've the biggest thing is looking at their watch.

What they have a closed loop system, they recycle their own water, you know, things of that nature, which is very different than what a lot of you know other people have, but they are still concerns and really trying to understand specifically as we get to the mega wattage of what are the um capacity limits that would truly tip the uh impacts on the neighboring consumers who are a part of the same electrical grid, right?

Um, to then that would have impacts of environmental concerns, things of that nature.

And so that's what I'm just trying to get, but it's three months, and we are aways from that.

So okay.

That's it.

I just yep, I'm putting that on the record for a data center and this process for that team that is looking at it, being explicitly clear on the energy consumption of it and having ways to actually track it and monitor it and things of that nature to then spill it out.

And then also talk about consumer behaviors.

I think part of the issue that is really driving these data centers are is just our overall consumption.

Everybody that is using Chat GBT to create a flyer to do you are part of the system that is feeding these large data centers, right?

So far as everybody who was talking, you know, I mean, so we need to understand it, right?

Our cell phones, even now, when you're doing Google searches, just the general Google search has now embedded into AI, which is then feeded into a data center.

Like, so we as consumers also need to be very, very clear on what we are doing because I think a lot of people don't understand the interconnections and what the impacts on people is, and really trying to push those who are going into this um system to begin to develop their own systems, like really embracing environment more sustainable practices, um, like closed systems and like um regenerative energy sources and not a traditional um electrical system.

So just adding to that.

Councilman, I couldn't agree more because I'll be honest with you, I was talking to a group of people, and I know that everybody thinks that I'm joking.

They literally thought their information went up into a cloud.

And I had to tell them no, it goes into these data centers.

And they did not understand that these things are all interconnected.

So I think a part of this is gonna have to be a lot of education because there's been a lot of miseducation, and unfortunately, people organize around fear.

Um, so I just want to make sure that we get this right.

Um, but I think I want to commend Cosmic Casey and Cosmos Life because once again, I know the business community hates the word moratorium, but what I've been telling everybody, we just weren't prepared for the moment, and now we're gonna spend the next three months trying to get it right.

Okay.

All right.

Uh seeing no other questions.

You have a compliment?

Casey.

Yeah, and Mr.

Chairman to Councilwoman House Jones.

I think the end the answer to your question is we don't know yet, right?

And we're gonna figure that out hopefully within the next three months.

Uh for the five, I I think there's five different levels of data centers, and which ones can we support with the infrastructure and our and uh and our utilities and and which ones we just can't do.

So I think that's a great question, but I I think to get an answer it's premature.

But I think hopefully within the next three months, we'll be able to come back with with a specific answer for uh for that kind of question.

Okay.

All right.

Uh seeing no other questions, ordinance number 556-2026 stands approved.

Uh I do have one other city planning piece while we have Director Mersman here, and then I'll go to the next one.

So that's it.

Oh, this is it?

Parks development.

Who's this one for?

That's me.

Oh, do you think that's the first thing?

Yeah, you're not.

Yeah.

Okay.

Uh the next one is resolution number 708-2026 as amended by Council Members House Jones, Santana and Griffin by Departmental Requests and Emergency Resolution, appointing an assessment equalization board to hear objections to estimated estimates with respect to the creation of the Cleveland Superior Arts Improvement District in the city and the initial plan for public services for district and declaring an emergency.

The amendment states there is no legal objection to this legislation if amended as follows.

One in section one line one after that insert Michelle Felder, Sigourney Sapp, and Jeffrey Weston Sleesman and Strike shall be an insert in Karen Gabriel Moss and Elise Yablanski, two alternate disinterested freeholders of the city are.

And then is dated 7226 by Mary Cornley, assistant director of law.

Thank you, Council President.

Callie Mersman, Director of City Planning.

Those of you who have been through the special improvement district designation process with us for other districts, might remember that there are three legislative steps to establishing a special improvement district.

This is the second of those three for the Superior Arts Improvement District.

This council passed the first step of legislation on May 11th, which adopted or accepted uh petitions from the community to establish the special improvement district and uh provided the plan for services.

This resolution very simply establishes due process for any property owners within the special improvement district who would like to raise an objection before the special improvement district is finalized.

The resolution names the date time place and assessment equalization board member names.

That's the amendment that was read in to hear those objections and make a determination before the special improvement district is completely finalized, and the additional assessments are placed on the property tax bills of the owners in the participating district.

Thank you.

Councilman Santana Councilwoman Santana, you've uh gave this to council.

Yes, and we did hear the first part.

I do have a question to the chair to the director.

When do you know a neighborhood is ready for Sid?

So in neighborhoods across the city, we have seen the services provided by the SID to be extremely beneficial, especially in areas that are walkable, pedestrian with a lot of business activation along key corridors.

Ultimately, it's the property owners voluntarily opting in to this special assessment to pay for those services.

Um special improvement districts, safety ambassadors, waste management, things like landscaping and placemaking are big um uses of the funds, but ultimately it's the property owners themselves that have to opt in, sign petitions, and then they work through the department of finance as well as surveys and assessments to verify frontages.

Got it.

So once we work on West 25th and it has enough businesses, then I could come to you, right?

That's the process.

We'll go through city planning and then we'll start the process.

Um the Department of Finance and the Division Division of Assessments and Licenses manages the process for the most part.

City planning is sort of the custodian of the legislative part of the process right now, but happy to work you through the different departments.

Got it.

Okay, thank you.

And um, I just wanted to make sure that councilwoman House Jones was she's up next.

Councilwoman House Jones, this is in the area that you represent.

Would you like to make any comments?

If people want to pay for it, go forth and be great.

No, no, no, and I I've been just being really this is by um I I am a person that I'm an active participant in the superior superior arts improvement district, and there is a group of um business owners that come together to put forth the lessons to have quality services and advocate in their interests.

So, yes, supportive.

The only thing I would advise everybody with SID districts is that I just had a contentious process in the Little Italy area, and um the residents felt there was an extra tax on their property, but the um business owners who actually have more frontage actually um want it more, but fortunately some of the apartment owners actually supported it, and I had I kind of left it up to the community because I didn't want to go and put my thumb on the scale, but those these kind of conversations can get very contentious because you um in in our area we actually did uh see it so that we could pretty much have like clean and safe ambassadors just like they do downtown.

So it could be very contentious, and I just want to make everybody cautious that homeowners are not very big on it because they feel like it's an extra tax and uh business owners want it because then they get more exposure.

So you don't have any large.

I don't have it in Larch Mirror.

Um, don't no need for it right now, but I do have it in Little Italy.

Yeah, just clear for when you think about the Superior Arts Improvement District.

There are very few, if any, homeowners.

That's why I it is this is specifically like commercial businesses, and um, like I said, they have an active presence of most of them, they know each other, they talk to each other, and again, like I say, because it is a process where people have to say yes, a majority of people have to say yes.

Um, and again, if they get it, they get it.

If they don't, they don't.

So they've been working toward it and go from there.

But this is not where and again, it's like a couple of homes, but even them, they are owned by companies and not the traditional resident that you would think.

And that's a good point, because like in Conwell's district, they exempted the homeowners, and they just did the institution.

So just know it's several different ways you could do it if you want to get uh some background on it, okay?

All right.

Uh saying other questions, uh, resolution number 708-2026 as amended stands approved.

Thank you.

Uh, next ordinance is ordinance number six ninety-four-2026 as amended by council members Bishop and Griffin by departmental request, authorizing the director of parks and recreation to employ one or more tree brokers to provide wholesale tree supply services for the division of urban forestry, department of parks and recreation for a period of two years with two one-year options to renew, exercisable by the director of parks and recreation.

And I think we have an amendment to this.

There is no legal objection to this legislation if amended as follows.

One in section two, at the end, insert the director of parks and recreations that will provide written notice to the clerk of council whenever any purchase is made through the cooperative process, which notice shall include the details of such cooperative purchases.

Two in section three, line one, after authorized insert shall not exceed 430,000 dollars, and in line two strike and from any other funds deemed appropriate by the director of finance.

This is dated 714, 2026, signed by Alejandro Gonzalez, Assistant Director of Law.

This is one of our you're gonna hear a lot from us because the trees are big thing in Cleveland.

Yeah, director, and then if uh you could uh go from there.

Great.

Uh apologize for being a little tardy.

Uh thank you, Council President and members of city council.

I appreciate this opportunity to speak today.

Uh we are pleased to present legislation supporting a wholesale tree supply service initiative that will strengthen uh efforts to expand and sustain our urban tree canopy.

As a newer department, we have been focusing on improving our internal processes to better uh to provide better service to the community.

Uh Phil Jubert is our urban forestry commissioner.

He's been here for just a little under a year, I believe.

Um he has spent a lot of time in value evaluating opportunities to enhance both both our purchasing practices and our operational efficiency.

And this legislation is an important step towards achieving those goals.

By purchasing trees through wholesale uh supply services, the city has several key benefits.

It reduces our costs, it allows staff to hand select higher quality trees, it expands access to broader network of nurseries and species, and it also provides greater oversight with tree installation.

These improvements will increase our likelihood that newly planted trees survive and thrive, and this will maximize the city's investigate while helping us build a healthier, more resilient urban forest.

This approach is already used by many other municipalities.

It's also being used by the Western Reserve Land Conservancy.

Uh, this is a best practice in improving the quality and long-term success of our tree planting program.

Uh, we respectfully request you support this legislation, which aligns with both the administration and the city council's shared goal of improving public service and expanding the urban tree canopy.

I appreciate any questions that you may have.

Thank you.

Councilwoman Santana, this uh oh, sorry, Councilman Bishop.

This is municipal services, and I know you send it to council.

You have any comments?

Uh yes, Mr.

Chairman.

We uh we uh relieved this to uh committee the whole week recommended the pasture.

All right, thank you.

Do we have any questions on ordinance number six ninety-four dash 2026?

Seeing no questions, ordinance number six ninety-four-2026 as amended stands approved.

Thank you, please sign on.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

Okay.

Uh next up is ordinance number seven fifty-three-2026.

This is by Council Members Davis, Santana and Griffin by Departmental Request and Emergency Ordinance to Amend Section 1 of Ordinance Number 242-2025, passed March 24th, 2025, relating to the addition of certain property at 2164-2214 West 25th Street to the Northeast Ohio Advanced Energy District.

And uh I believe we have Mr.

Bruno that's going to present.