Good morning.

We're gonna get started this morning.

Call into order the city council meeting for Tuesday, August 12th, 2025.

Will the city clerk please call the roll?

Councilman Bailey.

Here.

Councilmember Crow Everson.

Here.

Councilmember Donaldson.

Here.

Councilmember Gold.

Here.

Councilmember Hendron.

Present.

Councilmember Lion Weber.

Here.

Councilmember Rainey.

Here.

Councilmember Resley.

Here.

Councilmember Williams.

Online.

Okay.

Online present.

Please join us this morning with the invocation.

We are honored this morning to have, I believe, the police department chaplain.

This morning.

Good morning.

Can you please introduce yourself this morning and thank you for coming for our invocation?

Good morning to you, Council, and good morning to you, citizens of Colorado Springs.

I'm Gene Steinkirsner, chaplain with Carl Springs Police Department.

I've been with him for 23 years.

And it's an honor to be here today.

And first, I'd like to read a scripture.

Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts.

Since as members of one body, you were called to peace and be thankful.

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom.

May we bow our heads in prayer.

Almighty God, we come before you.

Amen.

Amen.

And please join us for the Pledge of Allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the United States of America.

Under God in his home with liberty and justice for all.

He bravely fought uh aggressive form of job-related cancer for a long time.

Um his illness was a result of his heroic actions uh and work on ground zero after the 9-11 attacks.

As a group manager with Colorado Task Force One, he spent countless hours in a dangerous and hazardous debris piles, focusing on safety and the recovery efforts of those that were lost in that tragedy.

So, with that being said, if you can please join me in a moment of silence so we can remember Captain Rickaki.

Thank you.

Thanks, Councilmember Um Rainey.

We will now consider the consent calendar.

Items will be acted on as a whole unless a specific item is called for discussion by a council member or a citizen wishing to address the city council.

Is there anyone wishing to pull an item off of the consent calendar?

Yeah, Madam President, I think we skipped over item three, changed to agenda, postponements.

And I was just gonna ask um I was told uh that we won't be taking public comment uh on item 10 C, the ordinance uh regarding our city auditor, is that correct?

That is correct.

Okay.

Uh when we get to that item, I'll offer a motion to allow public comment.

But if that's the intention, um, then citizens should uh uh know that so that they can give their comments if they're here during uh citizen comment before that.

But if you would like to deal with that motion now so that the ones who are here will know whether to stay or speak during citizens' comment for things not on the agenda.

Um I think we should clear it up so they they know we have uh former department head here, a city department head here.

Uh I know a former city auditor wanted to speak on this, and there are other citizens too that I believe wanted to speak.

I don't know why we would uh not allow citizen comment on it.

Because it's not a hearing, and this is an HR decision.

We were elected to make these type of decisions, and so at this time, if you'd like to make a motion, you can do that so we can move on.

Okay, well, then I would uh like to make a motion that we uh allow citizen comment on item 10c.

And I would ask for a second on that.

I don't have a second.

So at that time that motion fells, there will not be public comment on that item.

Then uh, but citizens could comment on it during regular citizen comment for items not on the agenda uh since they're not gonna have that opportunity uh during the item.

And I really don't understand what would be why we would not want citizens to be allowed to comment.

That is correct.

They can comment at citizens comment at the end of today's meeting.

Okay, moving on to consent calendar.

I other than um that discussion, can I have a thumbs up to move for the consent calendar?

I have a motion by Councilman Risley and a second by Councilman Bailey.

Let's vote voice vote.

All in favor, thumbs up, we're all good.

Any opposed?

Okay.

We are moving on to get my pages here.

5A.

A resolution of appreciation of Todd Bruning, maintenance service worker airport for 29 years of service to the city of Colorado Springs.

Well, the clerk we have Sonia.

Good morning, Sonia.

Morning, Council members.

Hi, my name is Sandra from the Colorado Springs Airport.

Um, I am I am honored to be here with Todd Burning to uh read his resolution of appreciation.

Whereas the city has benefited greatly from the dedicated service of Todd Burning, maintenance service worker airport for the past 29 years.

Whereas Todd is a native of Colorado Springs, born at the Air Force Academy and a proud graduate of Widefield High School.

Whereas Todd began his tenure at the Colorado Springs Airport on March 11th, 1996 at the old terminal on the west side.

Whereas over the years, Todd has met many celebrities who have traveled through the airport, including Air Force Academy head football coach Ben Martin and Fisher DeBerry, Broadmoor golf professional Dow.

Oh, excuse me.

Say it for me, Todd.

Yeah, Finn Sterwald.

And stars of stage and screen, such as Chris Christopherson, Frankie Ford, Lionel Richie, and John Vote, as well as countless pilots, including legendary Chuck Yeiger.

Whereas Todd lovingly and tirelessly cared for his wife Julie throughout her battle with poly cyst polycystic kidney disease until her passing of cancer earlier this year.

Whereas Todd consistently brought a positive attitude to work, always wearing a smile and eagerly taking on new assignments, whether washing windows 30 feet in the air with a scissor lift or driving a plow truck performing snow removal during a bomb cyclone or blizzard.

Whereas we commend his dedication and his commitment, leadership, mentorship, and responsible stewardship of airport resources throughout his years of the city of service to the city, whereas the city wishes him continued happiness and success in all his future endeavors.

Good morning.

Do you would you like to make some comments?

Just disappear.

Please.

First of all, I'd like to say thank you to the City Council and um City of Carlos Springs for this awesome job and opportunity that you all gave me.

It's been the joy of my life to uh serve at the Cairo Springs Airport.

And it was just the joy of my life just to have the flying public flying through in the many conversations with the great citizens of our city.

And uh most of all, I um like thank God and Jesus and I like to thank my wife who lovingly supported me through all that all these years until she lost her fight this year.

But she's one of the one of the people behind me, and I'm just so thankful for the time I had employment with the City of Colorado Springs in the Colorado Springs Airport.

Well, thank you so much for your service.

And we'll bring this back up to the dais.

I have Councilman Hindum.

Thank you, Madam President.

Todd over here.

Congratulations, and thank you for your service to the city through the airport for the last 29 years.

I have a question for you.

In that 29 years, a lot has happened in our city and at our airport.

What is the biggest change that you say you noticed at the airport from 29 years ago to today?

Um I would just say all the construction that's been going on, just the growth of our of our airport and just the great leadership we've always had at the airport.

Um from our employees and to our vendors.

Um just, you know, um, you know, we were there to serve the public, and it was such a joy just to be in that environment.

So I I would have to say the um the construction and just the great people coming through Springs Airport.

Well, thank you.

I have to say I certainly enjoy flying out of Colorado Springs much more than Denver if I can make it happen.

So thank you for your help with that.

Councilman Donaldson.

Yeah, thank you, Madam President, and uh Mr.

Brunning.

I I also want to just publicly thank you for uh for your service to the city um to your fellow citizens here in Colorado Springs, your part in growing our airport toward to what it is today, and uh, and then for your obvious uh love of your wife and family and being that kind of example for all of us.

And uh, you know, the city of Colorado Springs will only be a good city as long as we have people like you who are willing to dedicate a big chunk of your life to making it a good place.

So thank you very much.

Thank you very much.

We have comments from the chief of staffs.

Thank you, Madam President.

Uh Ryan for Hill, Deputy Chief of Staff, uh, speaking on behalf of the mayor's office, also wanted to congratulate you and echo some of the comments from our colleagues on City Council, your dedicated service of 28 years.

Uh you are one of the many unsung heroes uh out of the airport, uh, and really throughout our community, uh, people who day in and day out serve our our public uh serve it uh justly uh hardworking um and and a lot of times it's it's things that other people don't want to do on hours that other people are sleeping, and so uh particularly with uh you know the snow plowing and the main facility maintenance and all the other maintenance activities that you've had throughout your career is critically important, and and I echo again the sentiment of city council to thank you for your long-serving dedication to our city and to our community and to our airport.

Thank you very much.

So I have a motion from Councilman Henjam and a second from oh yeah, Councilman Risley.

Um let's vote the motion passes on a non-dezero vote.

So the council will join us up front for a celebratory picture.

City council appointments to boards, commissions, and committees.

We had a vacancy on the civil service commission due to a resignation.

And on July 28th, interviews were conducted by council liaison Brandy Williams along with representative from Car Springs Police Department, the fire department, the HR department, Javon Dunnail is recommended to serve as a partial term appointment.

Councilwoman Williams online.

Would you like to offer any comments?

Thankfully, I can hear now, so sorry I didn't say I was present earlier.

My sound was missing.

Just excited about all the people that applied and to fill that position.

As we talked about yesterday, this will be an ongoing conversation, but just thankful for the citizens who are interested so that we can do all we can to support our sworn fire and police officers.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Three vacancies have opened up on the parks board due to term completions.

Council liaison's David Lineweber and Kimberly Gold recommended appointing three alternate members as voting members, Kimberly Sherwood, Mike Sullivan, and Deborah Swanson, all of whom have served since 2023.

Gila Sandez Menendez is also recommended for reappointment to serve for a second term.

Council members Lineweber or Gold, do you have any comments on these recommendations?

I will make a recomm uh comment.

Um these three have really served um as alternates and have been present for most of the meetings all year.

And um it's it's kind of a new system.

Uh there's so much going on in the parks department that it's really quite overwhelming.

Um similar to when you joined City Council.

Um they do a ton of stuff, everything from cemeteries to swimming pools to you name it.

Um, and and so getting a grasp of all that, the um alternates really get a chance to kind of get a great understanding of how parks works.

And all three of these individuals have really shown their um involvement and interest and really participation, and I think they'll be great candidates.

Did you vote?

Okay, I found it.

Okay, we have a motion from Councilman Gold and a second from Councilman Henchum.

Let's vote.

The motion passes on a non-to-zero vote.

Moving on to 6A.

Um, do we have any business from the mayor's office?

Uh yes, madam president.

Just a couple of uh quick updates uh for the public.

Uh uh, three items to cover.

Uh first, a bit of good news uh in terms of the city cybersecurity insurance.

Uh it's a relatively small uh decrease, but we have had a decrease in our uh our rates for uh cybersecurity insurance, and we actually have a seen an increase in terms of the coverage for our cybersecurity insurance.

And the reason that's noteworthy is because communities across the nation are actually seeing the opposite happen.

They're seeing their premiums increase and they're seeing their coverage decrease.

And so it's a testament to the work of our IT department and the work we're doing with cybersecurity and really the work of every city employee, uh the trainings, the monthly popcorn trainings uh that that are completed by city council and all of staff, uh, that goes into our cybersecurity posturing and allows those insurance companies to to look at us and and know that we're uh lower risk because of the actions that we take.

So bit of good news there.

Uh also uh second item is the RBD permits.

So July was a busy month for construction.

Uh we've seen an increase in almost all types of construction compared to uh slower month in June.

Uh single family home permits were up, residential alterations were up, and commercial permits were up over 40 percent.

So we hope that that continue uh that trend continues in our community and we continue to see that growth in construction, and it's an encouraging rebound uh from what we've seen in in months past.

Uh lastly, wanted to mention the our homeless convening.

Uh wanted to mention that Mayor Yemi is convening a large group of community stakeholders to identify gaps in our provider service models uh as well as uh city services that are impacted by homelessness.

Uh this is uh in part response to some of the federal funding that has been cut for some of our key nonprofits uh in our community uh that uh work uh to address uh homelessness or those experiencing homelessness.

And so uh the whole intention of this is really to uh work with the nonprofits around actionable results and things that we can get behind as a community and and really focusing on that pro public-private partnership element of solving homelessness in our community.

Uh those are the three items that I wanted to mention.

So thank you for the time.

Thank you.

We don't have any items called off of the consent calendar, so we've on to eight utilities business AA.

Will the clerk please read item eight A into the record?105 candidates for election, Colorado Springs Utilities employee request for city council consent to run for Harrison School District 2, Board of Education and if electoral requests to weigh the requirements to terminate employment.

Good morning, Jane.

Good morning, Council President, Council President Pro 10, and City Council members.

Um, this is a request by a utilities employee to run for a school district, Harrison School District Board.

Um she has already been serving on the board, so council gave her permission um at probably a couple years ago in order to run.

The reason that uh she needs counselor permission is because we have a city code provision that requires employees to terminate employment if they run for certain offices of the federal government, the state of Colorado, El Paso County, the city, or school districts lying within the utilities um service area.

So uh the request is just to um give that permission again so that she can run again.

Utilities is in support of her um with uh with this request.

Thank you.

I have um councilmiller Lymwarber.

Yeah, could you just like what level of management is she and you know what?

She's uh supervisor environmental service group.

She's um great individual, great employee, does a lot in the community, so we we totally support there's no conflict of interest whatsoever on the other.

That's what I'm trying to try to get to.

Is it's just to kind of dig into like conflicts, might there be.

No areas of procurement, no errors of anything other than that.

But she's she's really a great person.

Okay, great.

Thank you.

And we also always tell people if something comes up that involves the city, you may have to recuse yourself as the board member.

So I don't think there's much, if anything that would come up, but that would be the solution.

Councilman Gold.

Um, thank you.

I just wanted to take this moment to publicly um recognize um this candidate, Michelle, who is currently the school board president for Harrison School District 2.

Um, she is a phenomenal human being with a big heart for not just the city, but um but also the Southeast specifically, and has been and continues to be a leader of the Southeast, and I really support her uh moving forward with the school board race.

Seeing other comments, I have a motion from Councilman Gold and a second from Councilman Hinchum.

Let's vote.

Councilmember Resley.

Moving on to new business 10A.

Will the clerk please read item 10A into the record?

A resolution of the City of Colorado Springs approving an amended 2025 operating plan and budget for the NW Retail Business Improvement District.

Good morning, Council.

I know there was some discussion yesterday at work session that a lot of our questions on this item were cleared up.

Uh, would you still like a presentation today?

I know it's been about a month since we last talked about this.

I don't need a presentation.

Okay.

Great.

Yep.

I just need a I have a motion from Councilman Risley and a second from Councilman Henjam.

Let's vote.

And the mention passes nine to zero.

Moving on to 10 B, will the clerk please read item 10B into the record?

A resolution recommending 700,000 of the retail marijuana sales tax revenue to be allocated to the Colorado Springs Clean and Safe Pilot Initiative and 700,000 to post-traumatic stress disorder treatment programs for veterans.

I have Council Munraine and Councilman Williams, um, who are going to read this resolution.

Councilman Thank you very much, President.

Uh the resolution for the Clean and Safe Pilot Program.

Whereas on November 8th, 2022, the voters of the City of Colorado Springs approved a citizen-initiated ordinance establishing a 5% sales tax on retail recreational marijuana with revenues to be used exclusively for public safety programs, mental health services, and post-traumatic stress disorder treatment programs.

And whereas since 2019, the greater downtown Colorado Springs area has experienced a significant increase in disturbances.

200% increase.

And requests from merchants for assistance related to public safety, 200% increase.

And whereas downtown ventures and the downtown partnership have proposed an innovative and results-oriented public safety program, the Clean and Safe Pilot Initiative aimed at enhancing the downtown experience for residences, residents, businesses, and visitors by fostering a cleaner, safer, and more welcoming environment.

And whereas the Clean and Safe Pilot Initiative will utilize a coordinated data-driven and human-centered approach to address growing concerns around public safety, homelessness, and cleanliness in the greater downtown area.

And whereas, by fostering a vibrant and inviting urban core and ensuring positive experiences, this initiative is expected to encourage repeat visitation, stimulate private investment, support local businesses, and generate long-term positive economic impact for the city of Colorado Springs and the broader Pikes Peak region.

And whereas the City Council and the City of Colorado Springs finds that allocating $700,000 in retail marijuana sales revenue tax revenue to support this initiative is consistent with the voter-approved purposes of public safety programs and the city of Colorado Springs is a proud home to over tens of thousands of veterans and has been recognized with numerous awards as a top location for veterans to call home.

And those receiving treatment with PTSD and major depression, less than one-third are receiving evidence-based care.

And whereas the City of Colorado Springs affirm our duty to express our enduring gratitude to veterans, both in words and in actions for their service and fines allocating $700,000 to post-dramatic stress disorder treatment programs for veterans and align with what voters approved.

Now, therefore, be resolved by the City of Colorado Springs, Section 1.

The City of Colorado Springs respectively urges Mayor Yemi to propose a budget amendment in the amount of 1.4 million and to bring it forward to City Council appropriation and further urges the mayor to execute a contract with downtown venues to implement the clean and safe pilot initiative in the amount of $700,000.

Additionally, City Council calls on the mayor to collaborate with City Council to fund $700,000 for post-traumatic stress disorder treatment programs for veterans in the Pikes Peak region.

Date at Colorado Springs, Colorado, this date, 12 August 2025, signed by President City Council.

Bring it back up to the dice for any discussion Councilman Donaldson.

Yeah, thanks, Madam President.

You know, I thought that we were gonna have a process.

There were gonna be a committee formed or something, and we would take uh applications or uh I guess applications for various programs uh for things like post-traumatic trust disorder.

And I don't believe we have any have any of those yet.

So I I won't I won't be able to support this, but but more importantly, there are certain things that only the city can do.

And public safety is uh arresting people, um, investigating crimes, uh responding to uh 911 calls for help.

That is something that only the city can do.

Uh treatment for for PTSD, um, as a veteran myself, I believe anybody with a service-related claim for PTSD can can uh go to the VA uh and file with the VA.

That's uh and there are other groups out there also that that help with this.

Uh military retirees can get it through TRICARE.

So there are ways to uh address that um outside of the city, outside of using city tax dollars um to to address it.

Public safety, that that is something that only the city can do.

Uh we have a shortfall of about 11 million dollars.

We think we're gonna collect less in revenues this year than uh our budget.

And even our police department is being asked to find ways to cut back to find savings in in their department.

And they have come forward with uh some requests for uh uh additional uh resources to do their job.

So for me, um I I think although the intentions may be good, uh the 700,000 for PTSD uh programs, um that's not necess that's not the place at this time when we have a but uh shortfall in revenue that we should be uh sending tax dollars, and I would prefer that the the full amount um goes towards uh public safety or CSPD or programs in that direction.

So uh I won't be able to support this.

Councilman Henjam.

Uh thank you, Madam President.

Um actually I I don't know if you followed the news, but the Manitou City Council just recently unanimously passed a uh ballot initiative to go to their voters to uh increase their sales tax because they're actually losing uh marijuana money um rec sales, and uh they're needing to to recoup that.

And now here we are um having a conversation about how we want to spend this revenue.

And what's really unfortunate, I I think, is that this money has uh in fact, I think just become a political football.

And what I I can't support this resolution, not because I don't actually think the clean and safe program uh for downtown and and actually probably more broadly in the city is very worthwhile because I I do believe that.

Not because I don't think that um uh money for PTSD, um it's actually in the in the uh approved ballot initiative of where some of these uh dollars uh could or should go.

Um so I think that's the conversation that we need to be having around the table.

And what I see is a city council and a mayor's office who are publicly bickering, be it through resolutions from the dais, op-eds, both sides.

I'm talking both sides.

And we're not really necessarily putting the city first and and working together as um the two parts of our our legislative branch, uh branches and as leaders coming together to talk about how can we best use this money to its intended purposes and as the voters uh required.

So so again, good intentions, yes, perhaps, but um, we need to be having conversations together, and uh it's not happening.

This is how it's happening, and so I really can't support uh this resolution or this uh resolution.

It's it's the mayor can actually ultimately do what the mayor chooses to do.

So why wouldn't we want to sit down and collaborate and uh find some compromises that way?

So I'll be voting no.

Councilman Williams.

Thank you.

And I don't think this precludes any conversations from happening.

I think what this does is that states the intention of city council, much like the mayor will be stating his intentions with the budget that he presents to us, and it's a place we start the conversation.

When we pass the original ordinance, we didn't state that this will be the process of grants.

It gave us the opportunity to open the process.

And I think based upon the fact that the initial $700,000 um has been allocated for clean and safe.

The second $700,000, I imagine we'll absolutely go through that grant process that we've already approved, and we'll be having that conversation between now and the end of the year on what that looks like.

And I know that we're all going to be greatly involved in that, but I think this is what starts the conversation, and we want to be ahead of when we get to the budget.

And I don't think it's prudent to spend what could be one-time funds on ongoing aspects of the budget.

This is a way to spend one-time funds, and definitely for clean and safe since the pilot program.

It's a one-time payment.

And and how that works and what the aspects that come out of that that really benefit downtown, how they get paid for in the future.

That's a different conversation, but this is a way to spend one-time funds on a pilot program and then one-time funds to backfill the community.

And um, having been very familiar with a veteran, and I get to unfortunately hear about people that commit suicide nationwide.

I still don't think we have enough resources.

So I'm gratefully in support of things that help post-traumatic stress disorder, and I will be supporting this resolution.

Councilman Rainey.

Thank you, Madam President.

Uh, and I'd like to echo my colleague um council member Williams and her comments just now.

Uh, this begins the process.

Uh, this begins the dialogue with the mayor's office.

And I would hope that the mayor is uh going to be thinking through uh not just the words of this resolution, but also other programming um that we can have this funding uh go to.

Uh and just I want to highlight something about uh veterans program because I think it's very sometimes it's uh a misunderstanding that veterans can quickly just go to TRI-CARE and receive service, and that's incorrect.

Um you got to pay for that.

That's a service you pay for.

I'm a veteran.

I pay for TRI-CARE.

Uh, but there are a lot of veterans who are uninsured and underinsured who can't receive those treatments.

Currently, we have 1,235 veterans uh who are out there uh a part of different programs, and 86% of those veterans currently have been referred to behavioral treatment programs, but due to uh state uh funding and budget cuts, uh, that funding is longer no longer there.

So now there is programs out there that they are seeking funding to help take care of our veterans.

And when you start looking at the sure number of veterans that make up our community, 90,000 plus.

We got five installations, and we can't never forget that.

Sometimes I think we lose sight of the fact that our uh veteran community make up a tremendous amount of what we are as a city.

So I definitely uh will be supporting this resolution because I also want to see not only a clean and safe downtown, but let's also not forget a lot of the homeless that are downtown are also those same veterans.

It's those veterans downtown also who need uh that support and treatment, and they are not insured and they are underinsured.

Uh so I definitely will be supporting this.

Thank you, Madam President.

Councilman Hingum.

Uh thank you very much, uh Madam President.

So um I do hope, and I I also support veterans.

Um my dad was a veteran, of course.

We have so many veterans as just been stated who live in our city.

And I hope this council would consider listening to the many, many, many veterans who have come to this council requesting for support of healing centers and and the healing natural healing, uh, which is legal in Colorado Springs, and yet this council will not uh support having those centers uh made widely available in Colorado Springs.

And as for the one-time funding, I I would uh actually uh respectfully take a different perspective than um my fellow council member uh Williams uh the voters passed uh legal legal rec sales of marijuana in Colorado Springs the only way that this becomes one-time money is if there's a ballot initiative to reverse that decision of the voters so if you're paying attention you might um wonder how how can this be one time funding there's probably initiatives and efforts happening to reverse the decision of the voters last November and that there's not a desire to become uh uh dependent upon this revenue in the city of Colorado Springs and perhaps face what uh uh manatou is facing right now so um that's just something to factor in as well um I I am I think the voters have made their decision and um certainly there's every right uh that that this council perhaps could have or citizens could have to uh go back to the voters and reverse the decision but I think we heard pretty loudly and clearly from the public this year that they were not very happy with council about the the positions that we took on uh on marijuana so again I'll be voting now and I I will now really finish my comments.

Thank you.

Councilman Donaldson Yeah thanks Madam President um right now we project an 11 million dollar shortfall for 2025 in revenue so we are 11 million dollars short of what we expected and our spending uh has to be cut to uh to make that up um we need to be focused on the core functions of municipal government primary amongst those of the three things that we're allowed to put this money towards the the one that's a core function of of city government is public safety uh there are plenty of one time expenditures that our police department uh our fire department could make with it with these funds um so that's not an issue uh if we ask the chief of police to come in here and uh list off one-time expenditures uh for this money he I'm sure he would be happy to do that and so it's a questionable decision to uh uh give this money to uh nonprofits or uh uh organizations that aren't part of the city government when we can't pay our own bills I have a motion from councilman Risley and a second from councilman Rainey let's vote council member Leinwever and Rainey I don't have a vote recorded motion passes six to three before we go on to 10 C and we have a hearing after that is there any counseling I need to I need to um pull back my vote was actually against okay sorry I can I will update that all right thank you sorry about that I didn't see it well we we're waiting on that are there any council members that want to take a 10 minute break or do you want to plow through yeah I would request at least a five minute break okay we'll take a 10 minute break

Okay, moving on to item C.

Will the clerk please read item 10 C into the record?

An ordinance amending ordinance twenty-five-thirty-one, section five, appointing Natalie Lovell as city auditor and describing her duties, compensation, and tenure in office and a superseding and repealing all prior ordinances inconsistent with this provision of this ordinance and removing the requirement of certification as a Colorado certified public accountant for the position of city auditor.

Good morning, Myra.

Good morning, Council President, President Pro TAM and Council members.

I'm Myra Romero, Chief Human Resources and Risk Officer.

During the Kent City Council work session on July 21st, 2025, I introduced an ordinance removing the requirement for a CPA for position of the city auditor.

Would you like me to review the information presented again, or are there any additional questions that I can answer at this time?

Um I would like to hear the information again.

Yeah, I'll have some questions.

Great.

So on March 11th, 2025, Natalie Lovell was appointed as city auditor with passage of ordinance twenty-five-thirty-one.

After further study, the city human resources, um, it was determined that neither the duties of the city auditor nor industry standard require a CPA.

The CPA credential is primarily designed for external auditors who issue financial statements and provide audit opinions in accordance with the U.S.

generally accepted audit standards, or GAAS.

In contrast, the role of a city internal auditor, such as city auditor, particularly in the public sector, centers on evaluating risk, governance, internal control, compliance, and performance, and is not governed by GAAS, but by the Institute for Internal Auditors, IIA's Global Internal Audit Standards.

Reflecting a broader emphasis on independence, objectivity, leadership, internal control internal control knowledge, and operational and governmental acumen.

As a result, City uh human resources recommends removing the CPA requirement from the city auditor classification and including it as a preferred qualification.

We talked yesterday, so thank you for uh for that.

Um, what research uh I know the the city auditor provided you with research she had done about different cities, the top 50 in population in the United States and her research.

Uh what did the the HR department do in addition to that?

Sure.

As we talked yesterday, I have my comp analyst, the senior comp analyst Jack Sullivan that I'll bring up today.

Um so just going over the research that we completed in regards to the CPA and the city auditor.

I think that it's first really important to establish the requirements and the expectation of a certified public accountant, which is a demonstration of financial expertise for an individual in analysis and advice, ensures compliance with uh tax laws and financial statements, and helps manage and optimize financial health.

We then take that certification and compare it to our class specification for the city auditor.

Um the purpose and goal of the city auditor is to organize and represent the city's independent city auditor's office by directing staff, setting organizational goals, overseeing services and audits, evaluating audit procedures and efficiencies.

The important note I think here is that not all of our audits are financial in nature.

Um, as Myra mentioned, they are uh they can be procedural, they can review our organizational initiatives and effectiveness.

Um, and also important to note is that the city auditor would not actually be completing any audits or financial statements as required for positions that use a CPA.

So that kind of like break just breaks down the certification as well as our positions requirements and goals.

Um to take that a step further, we actually go out into the marketplace and try to find observable characteristics in similar organizations and positions with similar requirements.

The comparison here is for an audit director.

Um the comparables that we find are that certifications are not a minimum requirement in our observed marketplace data.

Uh they can certainly be preferred qualifications, but they are in no way uh required in the reported data.

Um we did also take into consideration individual comparitors by reviewing uh different job postings, class specifications, and incumbents in the roles.

Um as a result, we really found that the CPA was not a requirement for the city auditor to perform their core work, nor is it definitive in marketplace comparisons.

Did you ask uh any of our uh former city auditors in the city of Colorado Springs if they thought it was important?

Um or should remain uh a requirement?

We did not complete that as part of our research.

Did you talk to any city auditors in other cities and ask them uh their opinions?

Uh no, we did not gather opinions for this research.

Okay.

Of the cities which uh our city auditor provided to you to show that hey, these other cities don't uh require this, and there are many that don't require a CPA.

Did you look to see if they actually hire a CPA anyway?

That that's what they have in those positions?

Um our primary goal is is to reflect those minimum requirements, not actually to determine if they hired.

Okay.

Because again, if we do not set it as a minimum requirement, we can still hire someone with a CPA.

Because that's my finding is that although other cities may not require a CPA, uh, that's what they end up hiring.

And then my other question for you would be did you look to see if other cities that don't put it as a uh requirement CPA, do they then have a different series of certifications as a requirement?

Like you must have one of these certified uh internal auditor, certified fraud examiner, certified information system auditor, CPA, some combination.

Did you look to see that?

Yeah, and we generally found that if the CPA was not a requirement, no other certifications were required in terms of how our classification specifications work, is we're really aiming to hit on requirements.

And when we move into a list of optional certifications that can introduce some ambiguity and almost serves a notion that none are necessarily required if you could have one out of a list of four.

Okay.

And then this other question is probably for for Myra.

And it is um the way this process went was we had a minimum qualification for the city auditor to to become our city auditor.

That minimum qualification was a certification of a CPA.

We hired someone, we appointed someone who does not have uh that certification.

So there may well have been many other applicants who looked at our minimum qualifications and said, Oh, I have to be a CPA, I won't apply.

So they got they turned around and walked away because they looked and believed what we posted as a minimum qualification.

The the auditor was appointed, and then several months later, she brought forward information to you showing that uh other cities don't require this and felt that we should remove the CPA.

And so that is what's being recommended to this body to do.

Are are we following EEO regulations?

If we post with a minimum qualification, then we hire somebody who doesn't have it with the um the exact word was expressly conditioned uh requirement that she will get it.

And then during that two-year period, very early on, she says, uh I'm not gonna, you know, I don't think I should I really need to do that.

And we remove the requirement before she's ever achieved it.

Is that compliant with EEO?

I would have to look at the requirements of the EU.

Well, I I would hope we've already we know that uh since we're this far down the road.

Um I would imagine you think it is, but uh to me it just seems uh like an unfair process.

We post a job saying this is the minimum qualification, then we hire someone that doesn't have it.

Then we allow uh then we remove the qualification after they've said they will get it.

Uh I I to me it just seems it seems very strange.

I I don't I don't know.

But that's my only other question for you.

Sure.

I would say that it's not Natalie bringing it forward, it's this council bringing it forward.

So the hiring manager is the one in charge of whether or not we hire a person and whether or not we're asking for an exception to hire a person, and whether or not we're mining we're removing a minimum qualification.

So it's not the incumbent and it's not the person that we hire.

It's the hiring body.

If if I fully believe, and I'm willing to place a little wager on this, that it was our current city auditor that proposed this and and who it flowed through, if it flowed through the the council president to you directly to you, I'm not sure.

But uh, you know, maybe I'll I'll ask that of the city auditor here in a few minutes.

She was the one that did the research and and and made the recommendation that we remove this requirement.

But you've you've answered my question, so thank you.

I have no other questions from the dais.

I need a motion in a second.

Councilman Hinchum.

Uh thank you, Madam President.

I don't really have a question, but I did want for the uh public to be aware that uh city council received a letter um when this became uh public, I guess it was two weeks ago in a meeting from the association of local government auditors known as ALGA.

Um they actually reached out to City Council on their own.

They have an alert system through Google or something that when things are happening in city auditors' offices all over the country, they're made aware because this association supports the standing up and the running of effective city auditor offices.

So they wrote this letter um to us, and uh I reached out, and in that letter, I'm going to describe a little bit about what they said, but I reached out and spoke with both authors of that letter uh who serve on um in in leadership positions at ELGA.

Um they I also, by the way, and they referenced their standards from a um uh document that they put out about especially for cities starting city auditing offices and consulting with auditors' offices about the um uh the standards and the guidelines.

It's a guideline document that you can find.

Anybody can find it easily online.

Um so they have many, many elements that they address.

And I'm gonna just highlight, and they highlighted in this letter, um, qualifications that are, and and I'll just read the qualification statements.

Um, competent leadership, uh the auditor shall possess adequate professional proficiency for the job demonstrated by relevant certifications, such as certified internal auditor, CIA.

Certified public accountant accountant, CPA, or chartered accountant, CA, or have an advanced degree in a related field with at least five years of experience in government auditing, evaluation or analysis.

The auditor shall have a bachelor's degree in accounting, business administration, public administration, um, or a related field.

If financial audits are performed, the auditor must be a CPA or CA.

So I I had a conversation with them about this, saying that we would be voting on this today, and I asked them a lot of questions about what was their perspective on what we were doing.

And they said it's actually quite within the norm and very acceptable, and they had no concerns whatsoever.

In addition to a master's in business administration MBA, which is meets that qualification for higher education in this area.

And she also holds a certification as a project management professional.

And the elements of that meet many of the requirements stated in it that I just read, as well as a certified construction industry financial professional.

So which has a whole other set of requirements that she meets as well and serve the position overall.

But I think we're we're kind of getting lost here in whether uh this position should have a CPA or not.

When we interviewed Natalie, we were looking for a leader to help support our audit department.

And I think that's what we've hired, and we need uh to support her.

And um at this point, spending her time working on a CPA is is not uh particularly uh a beneficial use of her time.

Um so I I am supportive of this decision.

What I would also say in talking with Ms.

Lovell um about this, she will certainly be looking at this and all positions and when and how we need a C CPA, uh, be it on our audit committee, um, how many CPAs we might need in our department.

But the reality is the vast majority of audits done out of the city auditor's office office in Colorado Springs are performance-based audits or IT audits, or not auditing of financial statements, in which case we absolutely use external certified CPA firms uh for the financials of CSU for the financials of the City of Colorado Springs.

And because she does not hold that uh certification does not mean that she's not qualified to oversee the process.

So I just think it's really important that we understand uh that we're not doing anything untoward people are concerned.

Um the the comments that we have received have been certainly from previous auditors.

Uh this is a change, it's a significant change from their perspective, and I understand it.

Um, but I also need to say that I have faith in this decision, and I do trust the process that we're uh taking.

Thank you.

Councilman Donaldson.

Yeah, thanks, Madam President.

Um, I'm gonna back up a little bit and uh you know, I I feel like personally I've kind of experienced bait and switch here because when we had discussions before the actual votes on the ordinance to appoint our city auditor, um my top two candidates were both CPAs, right?

But I was in the minority on that, and I guess the majority on council at that time uh wanted uh our current city auditor with the condition that she attain her CPA.

So I went ahead and vote and supported that in public when we voted on the ordinance.

I uh I wanted to show a unified front.

But now that we have done that, um the the auditor has done some research and has come forward with the idea that uh it's not really required here because other cities don't uh don't require it.

And that's true that many other cities don't require a CPA, but I asked uh a gentleman who's a former business executive to kind of look at the the cities that were given to us and the uh proposal by our city auditor.

And and what his research showed, looking at 15 cities about our size, was in the cities that uh don't require the auditor to be a CPA, that auditor reports to an audit committee, which has usually at least two audit two CPAs on it.

So their work is going to a CPA, or they report to the city comproller who is a CPA.

And I went a little further and looked at those 15 cities, um, which are all our size or bigger.

And although uh, you know, uh a number of them don't require their auditor to have a CPA, they do.

They hire people with CPAs for some reason.

There must be some value in this.

Perhaps part of it is that they oversee CPAs in the office.

And it's probably a good idea to know what they're capable of, uh, what you should ask of them.

And when these audit um firms are hired, that you you are on an equal footing with them and can review the product that they're giving to you to sign.

Um those 15 cities, this is interesting.

Fifteen cities we looked at, two of them had vacancies.

So now we're down to 13 cities.

10 of those have CPAs in the position of the city auditor.

And they oftentimes have many other qualifications too, many other certifications.

Certified internal auditor, certified fraud examiner, and they have extensive experience in the audit office.

A lot of times they were the deputy auditor for years.

The three that weren't CPAs, two of them were certified internal auditors, and one had a uh a different qualification, certified internal what is it here?

Uh controls auditor.

But those three had extremely deep resumes with many other um certifications and decades of experience in audit offices.

We will become unique in that we will have a city auditor who has none of these, not a CPA, not a C CIA, not a CICA, not a CFE.

Now, should we do that?

I'm not I don't think so, but I think it's especially bad that our process has been that the person who this will benefit is the one who brought the idea forward.

I think what we should do is table this today, if we don't vote against it, table it, and have our audit committee back up a step and take a look across all these cities and see what is right for Colorado Springs.

If we're not going to require a CPA, should what should we require?

Should we require it to be a CIA or CICA or what should the standard be?

I think that would be reassuring to me.

I think it would make the process look a little cleaner than it does now, where we again we've hired someone who did not meet the minimum qualification on the condition they would achieve it, and then once in office, they bring forward research which says, you know, it doesn't make sense for me to have to do this.

Does it doesn't pass the SNF test for me?

So I guess let me just see.

I I will make that motion to table this.

And I think our audit committee is probably perfect to uh look at this.

If not, then we should we should gather a group of experts and have them make a decision.

That will also clear it up for the city auditor.

She won't be the one bringing this forward uh initially.

It will be a different body that uh says this really is unnecessary now.

Um I would I would ask that our city auditor, have you taken the CPA exam or portions of the CPA exam in the past?

Council member um Donaldson, that's not what we're voting on today.

And I I'm gonna redirect those questions for another time.

We're specifically voting on whether the CPA requirement should be um in this job description or not.

So I think it would lend some clarity on perhaps on to why the records are.

I would urge her not to answer those questions.

This is not about her or her role, or we've already hired her.

Then I will make a motion.

I will make a motion to table this and uh appoint a committee, perhaps the audit committee, to look at what is in the best interest of Colorado Springs and what requirements are see our uh our city auditors should have.

I asked for a second.

Uh just as a clarification on uh rules of order here, you have a motion on the floor right now.

Yes, which is a motion by council member henjam, a motion by council member lineweber to uh approve um the ordinance.

Uh a motion to table does supersede that just pointing that out that the motion is recorded that it was originally on the floor, a motion to table supersede.

So just a motion from Councilman Henjam and a motion from Councilman Lineweber.

Correct.

And you have a motion to um to table this and appoint a committee to uh bring forward recommendations for the qualifications.

If we're going to change it, right?

Um if since this is the the point that we're discussing, what should we change the requirements?

Right now we're just going to remove the one certification requirement we have.

We'll remove we'll be down to none.

Um so I would recommend that we appoint a committee to look at uh what's in the best interest of the city.

Uh Trevor Glass to the city attorney's office.

So uh as the city clerk pointed out, the motion for tabling has to be voted upon before uh any other motion.

Uh that's assuming there is a second.

So is there a second to the motion to table?

I don't see.

I don't have a second.

Okay, so the motion fails for lack of a second.

I would uh Madam President, once more I will make a motion that we allow uh citizens to comment.

I believe we have some who have sat here the whole time.

I forgot that we have moved citizen comment to the last thing on our agenda.

Uh I thought it would be before we got to this, but I was wrong.

So again, I would ask my colleagues would we like to hear from uh uh citizens or former department heads on their thoughts about this.

I don't see a second.

We have a motion from Councilman Hindum and a second from Councilman Lion Weber.

We're just gonna vote and the motion passes on an A to one vote.

Moving on to item 11A.

Will the clerk please read item 11A through 11D into the record?

We will vote on these individual, but we're gonna read them all into the record at the same time.

And Madam President, before she does that, I my uh monitor excuse me, my monitor won't let me click in, so I'm apologize for interrupting.

I would uh like to recuse myself from these items.

My uh my architecture firm is the architect of record on this project, and while I feel like I could be impartial, um, I don't want there to be any uh perception of impropriety.

So with that, I will recuse.

Thank you.

Um item 11.

Excuse me, item 11a.

A resolution adopting finance of act and conclusions of law based therein and determining the eligibility for annexation of property known as PTAA edition number one annexation.

And just a note for the record.

Um I was updated that this particular annexation, even though the agenda say district four, it's really in district six eleven B and ordinance annexing into the city of Colorado Springs, the area known as PTAA edition number one and annexation, consisting of 14.12 acres located southeast of the Stetson Hills Boulevard and North Mark Shuffle Road intersection 11C and ordinance amending the zoning map of the city of Colorado Springs pertaining at 14.12 acres, establishing a mixed-use medium scale with airport overlay zone district located southeast of the Stetson Hills Boulevard and North Mark Shuffle Road intersection and 11D, establishing the PTAA charter school land use plan for proposed school elementary or secondary consisting of 14.12 acres located southeast of the Stetson Hills Boulevard and North Mark Shuffle Road intersection.

Today's hearing will proceed as follows.

We'll hear from the staff presentation and applicant presentation, public comment in support, public comment in opposition, and back to the diaspora council member questions deliberate and discussions.

We will start this morning with the city staff presentation.

Good morning.

Good morning.

I am the uh case planner on this project, uh known as PTAA edition number one annexation.

Um just so everybody's aware there's actually three presentations, uh, one from myself, one from CSU, and then one from the applicant.

Um so hot whatever order you I think typically we do it in that order.

Um so yeah.

Let me grab my clicker.

There we go.

Uh so PTA edition number one.

This is located on the east end of the city, uh, southeast of uh Stetson Hill Boulevard and uh Marksh North Mark Shuffle uh Road.

Um this is a piece of property located in El Paso County uh with a request to come in uh via voluntary annexation with a supporting zone establishment and a land use plan.

The site consists of two parcels of land totaling 14.12 acres with an intended use of charter school.

To allow this charter school, the applicant is requesting to go to an MXM uh slash APO zone district.

That's mixed use medium scale with airport overlay.

And then as previously noted by the clerk, uh this is actually in the district six or intended to go into district six, not district four.

So up on the screen, there's three uh file numbers corresponding with that zone establishment land use plan and annexation.

Uh as you can see on the screen, there is two phases of development to go with this project.

Um the light blue is uh on site detention, and then it's very hard to see uh, but access for this property is gained via easement on the east side of the property leading up to Huber Road.

Uh so as far as how this property will be accessed, will be full movement via access easement up to Huber Road, and then a write out only onto Mark Shuffle uh Roadway.

And you could probably see it a little better via this vicinity map.

All right, and this and this is just more reiteration.

This is uh so there's concurrent applications.

Uh we're going for an MXM zone, which would allow that uh school use on site.

There's two uh two parcels, and you can kind of see this uh site is riddled with easements.

No access is gained to uh Tamlin Road.

Uh as previously stated, it's gonna be via Mark Shuffle Road and then up via easement to Huber Road.

Yes.

Um, same of the more uh more of the same information so MXM, APO, uh airport was a reviewer on this application.

Uh they provided no significant issues uh regarding the proposed use, uh, just the standard comments as far as um more additional review will come at time of development plan and airport overlay easement will likely be established uh with final plat at future development plan stage.

And these are more illustrations of what that looks like uh as far as internal circulation and how the prox uh property will be accessed via Mark Shuffle and Huber.

Up on the screen is the uh timeline for review.

So this process actually started back in August of 2023.

Uh with the petition acceptance acceptance occurring in February of 2024.

Initial entitlement review began February of that same month, uh and this was uh ready for planning commission in September of 2024.

Now there is a gap between uh plan commission and the resolution setting the public hearing date, and that's primarily for some changes that occurred to the land use plan.

City staff and the planning department had determined that uh those changes weren't significant enough to send this back to plan commission.

Uh those changes included no longer accessing this property via Tamlin Road, and that's why you see the easement leading up to Huber.

So additional review was required.

Um and then on the screen, you'll also see that uh we did go through resolution setting the hearing date in June with today's public hearing, and then in two weeks, an additional hearing.

For the stakeholder involvement process, uh there was public notice provided at pretty much every stage of this project via the initial review for plan commission and for uh the resolution setting the hearing date for this hearing.

That went out to a thousand feet of the property boundary, and 253 postcards were mailed.

No comments were received, and no neighborhood meeting was required.

Um, so there wasn't a lot of significant comments that came back.

The most significant being from the traffic engineering group related to stacking for school-related uses, the required improvements via the easement leading up to Hubert Road and required improvements of Hubert Road itself.

And I will also note that CSU had no outstanding comments.

They're not recommending approval because they're a neutral body.

So that's kind of an error on staff's part.

They will have additional review that comes via the plat and development plan that come at a future stage here.

Taking into account city goals, policies, and procedures.

But ultimately, that is very supportive of any enclave coming into the city via the voluntary route of the owner.

Staff uh finds that the proposed annexation and uh meets the criteria of the annexation guide, or I guess the guidelines of the annexation guide, as well as the general goal and intent of plan COS.

Up on the screen is the conditions for annexation.

These are the criteria that the city reviews to allow an act or to decide if an annexation should come into this into the city.

Staff finds that this project does meet those uh conditions for annexation.

And then the same thing goes for the zone change.

Uh there are 10 criteria that go with that application, and staff does find that the uh application meets those criteria to go into the MXM zone slash APO, which is airport overlay.

The land use plan has seven criteria, and staff also finds that that application is in compliance.

Um so it looks like there's an error.

Uh should say city council, but uh you have a set of motions for both the resolution finding effect, the annexation, the land use plan, and the zone establishment.

Ultimately to approve or deny annexation uh for 14.12 acres coming into the city.

I'm just gonna zoom through all of these.

Councilman Rainey.

Thank you, Madam President.

Um, if you can go back to the map, um I'll go forward one forward.

It's the colored map that you just passed.

Right there.

Okay.

Um Stesson Hills Boulevard is a four-lane highway.

Um, and looking at the area where the annexation would take place.

Two comments were made.

Tamlin Road would not have access.

They didn't require access, correct?

That is correct.

No access to Tamlin Road, which is south of the property.

Correct.

Hence for school traffic, a lot of that traffic would have to come off of Hubert Road.

Is that gonna remain a two-lane highway?

Because that's what it is right now.

Uh so this is a big discussion item uh which is outlined in the annexation agreement.

So the property owner will be responsible for rebuilding Huber Road uh to city standards.

I don't know what exactly what that looks like, but uh that will come at a later stage and reviewed via the traffic engineering department and public works.

Um they are required to bring in Huber Road prior to occupying the school use.

Okay.

Um to the left of that road, there is a church.

Do you know there's any plans for for anything in that in that area to move or you know I don't have an answer to that, but the okay and I and then I want to go back to Tamlin Road again.

Where Tamlin Road is, and granted, as Mark Shuffle is being expanded, there is some houses and some storage units in that area.

And I for clear from my pure clarity for my citiz uh constituents in District 6.

You're saying that there's no access that will be from that school through Tamlin.

It is only one road, and that would be Hubert Road.

So access to Huber Road will be a full movement connection, and then access to mark shuffle via right out only.

So no in and out through Tatlin.

No in and out.

Okay, thank you.

All right.

Is that it?

Yep, that's it.

No other questions.

And so we'll next we'll we will have the CSU.

Presentation.

Good morning.

Good morning.

President Carl Iverson, members of council, good morning.

My name is Brian English, Development Projects Manager with Colorado Springs Utilities.

Uh, here to provide a brief force service perspective on the proposed PTAA annexation.

I'd like to quickly thank Mr.

Sullivan for clarifying Springs Utilities Neutrality on the approval of this particular application.

We simply want to provide the data and facts to City Council, allowing you to make an informed decision on what you believe is in the best interest of the community.

Just a quick vicinity map to reorient ourselves.

You can see the uh Cimaron Hills enclave there.

It does kind of look like a finger pointing directly at uh the site uh southeast of Mark Sheffle and Huber slash Stetson Hills.

Uh the first item we'll start with is the application of city code 12.4.305.

This has to do uh with the extension of water services to properties located outside of the city, including proposed annexations.

It does require city council approval to extend water service, and that approval must be based on substantiating a substantiated and written record demonstrating one of the following that the city's available water supply is sufficient to admit at least 128% of existing water usage plus the projected water demand for the area to be served, or a unique and extraordinary circumstance uh serving a critical interest of the city exists.

The area is an enclave, the area is owned or leased by the city, or the extension will have a de minimis impact on the city's available water supply.

Um application of the code, uh we really want to demonstrate here our current water supply and our existing usage, which is a five-year weather normalized rolling average, are reliably met demand.

The amount of water that we can currently supply to the city is 95,000 acre feet a year.

Uh, our current existing usage for the period of 2019 through 2023 was uh 70,325 acre feet a year.

Uh, when we apply the 128% requirement of code, the minimum water supply requirement that we have to maintain for the existing customers and existing city limits is a little over 90,000 acre feet a year, and our available water surplus when considering extension of water outside the city is just a little under 5,000 acre feet a year.

Uh we also use one percent of that minimum water supply requirement to determine de minimis impact.

So that will become important on the next slide.

Uh so in this case, uh the the conditions, it does meet the enclave criteria under city code, and based on its projected water demand of 10 acre feet a year, it also meets the de minimis impact to the city's water supply.

Uh for informational purposes, petitioned annexations, the total or aggregate projected water demand for all petitioned annexations, including PTAA is about 160 acre feet a year.

And since the uh city code, the water extension ordinances was adopted in February of 23.

There have been 19 approved annexations, and their cumulative projected water demand is about 1626 acre feet a year.

Uh it's important to recognize our our current water resources again are reliably met demand and our existing use that does provide for buffer for growth within the existing city limits.

Uh however, our full build-out water requirements, we estimate that the city will need 129,000 acre feet a year to successfully serve uh the the city of Colorado Springs.

If we subtract our current water supply, there is a 34,000 acre feet a year gap.

So any annexation does increase uh the amount of water supply that we needed to develop to serve our customers.

And for informational purposes, an acre foot a year is a little over just shy of 326,000 gallons, and one acre foot can serve approximately three to four homes, single family residences.

Through our integrated water resource plan, we have identified and are pursuing a balanced portfolio to continue developing and fortifying our water supplies.

Those are showed in the colored circles there.

The different areas where we are looking and the and the yields that we would like to develop into the future to ensure water is available for the city of Colorado Springs.

We need to acquire those and develop those to meet future growth and manage risks.

All of the components of the portfolio are necessary, difficult, and expensive.

And if we complete fewer projects in one area, that means doing more projects in another.

This covers the requirements for annexation.

From a groundwater and water rights perspective, the owners shall transfer all groundwater to the city or any additional water rights that historically were used or benefited the property.

The current conditions have changed.

The applicant has since provided information confirming that there are no existing well permits or water rights associated with the property.

Service area overlap.

The property is presently located in Mountain View Electric Association service territory.

If the annexation is ultimately approved and incorporated into Springs Utilities Service Territory, the MVA would be entitled to just compensation per Colorado revised statutes, and those costs would be the responsibility, the owner-developer.

The property is located entirely within Springs Utilities Natural Gas Service Territory and would be eligible for service without respect to annexation.

Electric service area overlap.

This just shows that the properties surrounded on the west, south, and east sides by or actually east and west side, but you can see the MVEA enclave that is also the enclave of the city of Colorado Springs.

The next slides intend to address service capacity, utility facilities, extensions, and revenues.

That we do have a surplus across all four utility service lines at the time of application, and it's sufficient to serve the needs of the current and future customers for the foreseeable future, that existing and projected facilities are sufficient for the present and foreseeable future, that extensions can be designed and constructed to the property to enable service provision at the time of annexation or at some point in the future.

And whether the revenues are expected to be generated will offset the immediate and long-term costs associated with the annexation.

Water infrastructure, there are several different options to provide the necessary looping and redundancy or reliable service to the property, either a loop extending off Water Main North and Huber or from Stetson Hills and Mark Shuffle to a point south connecting with infrastructure in one of the neighboring residential subdivisions.

The red line that you see, the dash line extending north to south from Huber through the property is for a future large diameter transmission main that will support the future needs of customers in northern Colorado Springs.

We have successfully negotiated terms and conditions in the annexation agreement to provide for a 50-foot utility easement to accommodate placement of that main in the future.

Wastewater infrastructure.

This particular area, based on the topography, the geography in the area.

We have an existing service and treatment agreement with the Cherokee Metropolitan District where we send flows into their system.

It is likely that we would need to expand our agreement to include this property to ensure appropriate conveyance and treatment of those wastewater flows.

We've had very preliminary conversations with Cherokee.

They are open to the concept of expanding the agreement, although no formal negotiations have taken place and it would require subsequent agreeing to terms and all appropriate approvals.

Natural gas, we are finishing a 150-pound high-pressure gas main along Tamlin and parts of Huber Road.

Uh this really represents kind of the worst case scenario that we would have to design and construct a new district regulator station to decrease the pressure to a safe delivery level.

Uh medium pressure system that would be at the owner developer's extent expense, and then a medium pressure distribution main to the property from the east.

Uh, once we receive actual load projections and pressure requirements for their natural gas service, there may be other options to do a shorter extension from the northeast northwest of the property near Stetson Hills and Mark Shuffle Boulevard.

With electric and our fiber network, uh a couple of different options, either extending from the northwest south to the property or from the south from Tamlin and Mark Shuffle north north to the property.

Again, with the new new tariffs that were approved the first of this year, this would be 100% owner-developer cost responsibility.

From a Springs Utilities capital cost perspective, uh these these line items represent the different costs, capital costs that Springs utilities are responsible for, uh, electric infrastructure, meters, resource, natural gas infrastructure, water facilities and infrastructure, and fiber infrastructure.

Uh we're estimating anywhere from about 600,000 on the low end to a little over 900,000 in utilities capital cost if the annexation is approved and the properties developed.

From a developer capital cost estimate uh for the infrastructure and facilities they are responsible for, uh, we're looking at just shy of 400,000 on the low end to about 540,000 on the high end.

You tilt Councilman Henjum.

Thank you, Madam President.

Brian, um, could you uh on the wastewater in particular?

Could you speak a little bit more about how should this stay with Cherokee?

How does that decision get made?

And how often do we have that kind of arrangement in an in an annexation?

Um it's it's fairly rare.

Some of the larger annexations, I I will specifically reference Amara.

We were looking at having a wholesale wastewater service agreement with a fountain sanitation district because the property, about two-thirds of the property was physically located within that district.

Um I would say it's it's not very common, um, but it's it's not unheard of in this particular area.

Um it just topographic topographically and from an engineering perspective, it's very difficult to get the wastewater in that area into our collection system and send it to our treatment facilities.

So we've we've thought over time, this this agreement that we have with Cherokee actually dates back to 2001.

Um, and we've been sending flows from the Willowin subdivision and the service area for the last 25 years.

So we're already doing this with Cherokee for this area because of the Yeah, because of the the lay of the land essentially.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Madam President, can I add something on to Councilmember Hendrix's question?

We're also looking at the same thing at the rail park.

So the rail park, you know, we take a look at the best way to serve in the for the long term.

Then what we'll do is they're still our customers, but we work these agreements.

But the rail park would be an example.

We're working with another treatment facility to treat that, but they'd be our customers with a special contract.

So same thing to rail park, anything else.

If there's a better option, we always try to find the best solution.

From an OM cost perspective, we estimate just shy of $8,000 per year once the school's built.

Um less than 4,000 would be estimated treatment costs with Cherokee.

Uh standard labor and ONM for our other services and infrastructure would be about 4100.

So again, about 8,000.

Um, you know, high cap CapEx, low capex, we're looking at costs from 200,000 to 400,000 between 25 and 50 years.

Uh cost summary, uh, again, our capital costs for Springs Utilities, 600 to 900,000.

Uh mid-scenario capital cost of about eight, uh, five-year capital cost of 700,000 and 300,000 for the first year.

Uh OM cost estimate at $8,000 per year.

Uh, based on current rates, the cost payback time frame is estimated to be 16 to 35 years.

Uh that assumes the schools completed in 2027 and approximately a 26-year payback on that.

Uh, our financial risks, as you know, uh city council approved the five-year rate uh capital rate and budget plan for 25 through 29.

So approved annexations were not included uh in that capital budget, so we would have to work with planning and finance division to uh identify funding opportunities uh with within the current budget or other other means of funding that if the development occurs through 2029.

And with that, I will open it up to any questions you may have.

Councilman Hingem.

Thank you.

I just want to better understand the financial risk on this.

And I realize in the scheme of our budget, it's really a very small amount.

But given that we are carrying the cost for quite some time.

Is the uh the payback over time include interest that we would earn on those expenses over that time that utilities is covering that cost?

I believe they would.

I don't know.

They should.

Yeah, when we take a look at the financial, we always factor in cost of money and what that really relates to.

So pretty much all of our analysis will have cost of money, which is goes into where our bonding rates are.

Um this one here is small enough that I don't foresee much of an issue with this one at all financially.

Okay.

Well, I I do want to say, I mean, I I think bringing in enclaves and this is the kind of annexation that absolutely, I mean, it's very different from an Amara or a Carmen Line and very supportive, but nonetheless need to make sure that you know there still is cost associated, and want to make sure that we're covering all our basis.

Thanks.

I don't see any further questions.

Thank you.

Thank you.

At this time, we'll have the applicant's presentation.

Nina Reese with Vertex Consulting.

I don't know.

Thank you.

I see the presentation coming up.

Um the the city staff did an extensive presentation.

So you're gonna see me skipping over many of my slides just because I want to be respectful of your time and not duplicate information.

Please stop me if I skip over something that you wanted more detail on.

Okay.

The location was already covered.

Um, the one thing that I do want to point out though is that the property.

Excuse me.

Your name, I just wondered.

Oh, she I don't think the thing was on, but go ahead and sure.

I apologize.

I mean the microphone wasn't on.

Um Nina Reese with Vertex Consulting.

The property just to the south is zone CC within the uh unincorporated El Paso County.

So that's a commercial zone district.

Oh, I'm sorry, this thing is touchy.

There we go.

Okay, so the the overall project, Chris covered this, but I will just cover um the school itself and what's being proposed for the school itself.

So this is a six through twelve charter academy that's being proposed with a maximum of 800 students.

They are proposing uh a main school along with a gymnasium.

That gymnasium is part of the phase two, so not part of phase one, but phase two.

Um we're proposing 155 parking spaces as well as an outdoor play area.

Um in the future, as part of phase two, when that gymnasium is constructed, we're also proposing some athletic fields.

Uh Chris covered this as well, so we'll skip it.

Chris also covered this.

Um, I will just point out that the zone district that we are proposing is the MXM.

And you'll notice that MXM is located across the street, just to the north.

So as far as compatibility, um, the proposed zoning is compatible.

I will skip over this as well.

CSU covered the utilities.

Uh Chris covered the plan COS as well.

Um just point out on this slide here that the property to the south is CC, it's got an existing storage unit on it.

Um, it is very possible that if they wanted to redevelop that site for anything other than just storage, they would need to annex into the city of Colorado Springs for utilities, just like the school.

So this does facilitate potential future annexation in the area.

Um, I will have uh Brandon with FM Roka come forward for the traffic slides.

Um before he does that, sorry, Brandon.

Before he does that, I just wanted to point out a few things as far as the roadway improvements that we're proposing.

Um, some of your questions answer a few of those questions that you had.

Uh the school is proposing to construct a significant amount of uh public infrastructure, um, far more than I myself have ever seen for an individual private school or sorry, public school, not private school.

Um, far more than I myself have ever seen for an individual private school or sorry, public school, not private school.

So on Huber Road, Huber Road is currently not in great condition as you identified.

Um the school is going to design and construct.

So meaning they're funding all of it, um, the improvement of Huber Road, and that'll be a half section of the future steps in.

Um, Huber Road right now.

I'm gonna go back a few slides so I can show you.

Um so Huber Road, you can see that it dead ends at Tamlin.

So at this point, until uh banning Lewis builds out that PDZ portion that you can see, uh, there's really no need for the full four lanes.

So we're only constructing a half section that then banning Lewis would have the benefit of having that half section constructed already for them.

Um similarly, the access point that we're proposing from the future steps and extension down to the property in place of utilizing Tamlin is going to be a half section of a future collector roadway.

So again, banning Lewis will have the benefit of having that half section already constructed for them.

Um if most of us think about schools and what schools typically do when they come into a neighborhood, they really only handle their access coming into the property.

Um, and they typically do not do roadway improvements on adjacent roads.

So um I think it's important to point out that they're they are investing quite a bit in this area.

Okay, so then I'll have Brandon cover um more traffic.

Hi there.

Uh my name's Brandon Wilson.

I'm the traffic engineer with SM Roach.

Um traffic concerns that were expressed during the planning commission hearing from last September.

Uh, the first one inquired about internal uh storage lengths.

Um our traffic analysis predicted about 700 to 1600 feet of internal vehicles queuing to drop off students and pick them up during morning and afternoon peaks.

Um the site is accommodating uh about 23 to 2500 feet of storage.

So um there's more uh than enough internal storage uh to accommodate those internal queues.

Um also during that planning commission hearing, um members wanted to know the impacts of the school's access on Stetson Hills.

Um specifically once Stetson Hills gets built out.

Um I have verified or we have verified with City Traffic Engineering that there are still no plans or commitments for that extension um east to U.S.

Highway 24.

Um, however, we did include that analysis uh within our traffic study and verified that um traffic operations are going to be within the city's limits and that there really aren't any traffic issues with that, uh, part and due because there's not a lot of traffic on Huber Road today.

Um I would like also like to add that um uh no student drivers will be allowed to exit onto Mark Shuffle via that write out only that will only be allowed for faculty.

Um all students will exit north up to Huber Road.

And then uh I'm available for questions.

Thank you.

I have a question from Councilman Rainey.

Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna have a discussion here.

So I gotta go back to that lane.

Currently, Mark Shuffle is under construction and it's being expanded currently.

Let's go through a typical day.

3:30, 4 o'clock, whenever kids get out of school, right?

If I'm heading west on Hubert Road, and I needed to make a right or left hand turn, the way the current road structure is laid out does not allow that.

The comment that was just made that there would be a like a half, I guess a half-lane extension or whatever that looks like.

The amount of traffic that will pour out onto Mark Shuffle with the same neighborhood that pours out and head towards banning Lewis Academy.

And then you have traffic that's coming in from Dublin.

I'm trying to get a better understanding of how school traffic will pour out of the school onto Mark Shuffle when I already see a congestion between three and five between Stetson Hills, Dublin, along with the current construction that's happening with Mark Shuffle.

Can you provide me some context here on how that half extension is going to benefit traffic flowing into Mark Shuffle?

Yeah, I can give you an answer to that based on operations.

It's my understanding that with this partial improvement to Huber Road, as you go westbound and approach Mark Shuffle, there will be one to two approach lanes.

I'm not really sure on how many approach lanes there will be at this time.

Therefore, within our analysis, we went conservative and just assumed one approach lane.

So everybody would have to use the same lane to go left through and right with those recent improvements to Mark Shuffle Road and with some simple adjustments to the signal timing.

We are not showing any issues with traffic operations.

And part of that is due because the school lets out before the uh evening peak really starts.

Has there been any conversations about using the backside of the school area?

There's another county road, and I don't think that road is a part of the annexation, but using another form to, I guess, eject people out on the mark shuffle.

I know probably studies and personnel may say, uh, well, there's there's no problem.

Well, there's no problem because nobody's on the road right now.

Um, but I drive that road every day, multiple times a day.

And the traffic is immense, and that's not including what's transpiring on barns right now because there's another neighborhood that's being built out on barns.

So now you're talking about added impact.

Then I think it's three more miles down the road, there is another new neighborhood.

These are all impacts, and it's very hard to go back to my constituents and constantly say, no problem, no problem until they experienced a problem.

And then, of course, I'm inundated with emails because there is a problem.

We're at a process right now where we can address the problem.

And to me, that problem is going to be injecting traffic westbound onto Mark Shuffle, whether that's a left turn lane or a right turn lane.

So I I would highly recommend that someone definitely takes a look at that because the timing, especially, I would assume that school is probably gonna um, you know, let out roughly around the same time that the banning Lewis ranch and prep school, and then let's not forget Vista Ridge, all of that traffic pours out into that area.

Now, I'm very hopeful that the expansion of Mark Shuffle is gonna alleviate that, and then the expansion of Briar Gate Parkway is gonna alleviate and have more flow of traffic.

But you know, the one thing I haven't mentioned yet, I haven't even mentioned Peterson Space Force Base and the traffic that pours out of there and in Shrever during that same time frame.

So I want to make sure that we're thinking through what traffic truly looks like.

I know a lot of people complain about the traffic on powers during that time frame.

Now we're just moving that congested traffic one, you know, one area over to Mark Shuffle.

And I I want to make sure that we're thinking through these things.

So I I offer that, but can you expand if there's been any thoughts of potentially a right turn lane and a left turn lane and then a crossroad?

Yeah.

No, I I appreciate those concerns.

Um at this time with with the rezone application, we have not looked at those specific details.

Um, but we'll work with city staff on later developments when once those things get defined, or to help them divine those.

Okay, I would appreciate that.

Thank you.

Not a traffic engineer, but one thing that I would just add.

Um the the school actually does staggered starts and stops.

So not all grades arrive and leave at the same time.

So that does help quite a bit to ensure that there's not uh the same level of congestion on the roads as you might see in a traditional public school where everybody drops their kids off at the same time and everybody leaves at the same time.

Um so that does help quite a bit.

Um, and as uh Brandon mentioned, as part of the site development plan, we will have to submit construction drawings with an updated traffic study to support those construction drawings that would be reviewed by city staff to ensure that uh whatever our final construction, what we're proposing and what we end up constructing doesn't cause issues to the surrounding roadways.

Thank you.

Um so talking about the school again.

Uh so this school is is most certainly needed.

Um it's as you all know and have identified this area of the city continues to grow.

Uh this school PTAA specifically is a STEAM school, so uh most of us are familiar with just STEM, but what they do is they have they have the traditional STEM, but then they add that arts component as well.

So that's somewhat unique.

Um, it also allows for future skilled workforce for our area.

Um, and then one other unique aspect of PTAA when the students graduate from high school, they actually already have two years of their college credit.

Um, so that's pretty amazing.

We all know how expensive college is, so to have that starting off is a great benefit.

Um, I will skip over this as well because it was covered.

Are there any questions?

I don't see any at this time.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

We'll move on to public comment and support of this and I don't see any in support and public comment in opposition, and I don't have any signed up for opposition.

So we'll bring it back to the dais for council member questions, and I also need um council member Williams.

Thank you, President Crow Iverson.

Um as I've mentioned before, and I'll continue to mention as part of my job.

Um, I work for the company called HR Green.

My personal clients, none of which are in Al Paso County.

But I did see that HR Green was a partner on this project.

So for that reason, I will be recusing myself, even though I literally know nothing about this project.

So thank you.

Thank you for that.

Um I see no other questions or comments on the dais.

And we will vote on these individually.

I have a motion from Councilwoman Hingum and a second from Councilman Bailey for 11A.

We'll vote.

Yep.

Let's vote.

And the motion passes on a six to zero vote.

Moving on to a line item 11B.

I need a motion for 11B.

I have a motion from Councilman Hincham and a second from Councilman Bailey on item 11B.

Let's vote.

I think that's because Councilman Gold is Didn't vote.

That's the one missing.

The motion passes on a six to zero vote.

Moving on to a lie item 11C.

I have a motion from Councilman Bailey.

And a second from Councilman Rainey.

Let's vote.

The motion passes on a six to zero vote.

And our last item is 11D.

I have a motion from Councilman Bailey and a second from Councilman Rayleigh.

Let's vote.

And the motion passes on a six to zero vote.

And that concludes this hearing.

Moving on to citizens' comments, item 13.

We have one hour, citizens' comments.

Citizens will have three minutes to share your comments.

I have a lift to those who have signed up when you call your name.

Please come forward.

Please introduce yourself and please limit yourself to topics that are relevant and germane to city business and limit it to three minutes.

We have Charles Barber.

Starting public comments.

Good morning, Mr.

Barber.

Good morning.

My totem today is for old memory.

Honorable President Crow Iverson, President Pro Tim Risley, City Council members and staff.

My name is Charles Barber.

I have lived here for many moons.

Listen with great interest today as I want to talk to older teenagers about analytical geometry.

You may question my premise, however, my mechanics are pristine.

This is a public notice to deprive big corporations or individuals from profiting about this dynamic earth condition.

The answer is insulate electromotive force, EMF, and magnetomotive force, MMF, on all dynamos, electric motors greater than five horsepower, and engines of the world.

My spreadsheet was a hundred and twenty records and thirty-six files long.

And it comes to represent with a little hand modification, a regression analysis of that data in proximity of point nine nine nine nine two six.

This is the XY coordinates, hundred years time, ninety degrees latitude.

This is filled in.

Thank you.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you, Mr.

Barber.

Councilman Rainey, Mr.

Barber, we have a question for you.

Thank you, Madam President.

Charles, I just got a quick question.

Based on the data points that you just mentioned, do you believe or are you in conversation with scientists about adjusting the world's like magnetic model that they tend to use for navigation purposes?

I have not addressed anyone.

I've not found anyone who has the time to listen to my proposition.

No worries.

No, I just wanted to ask that question.

I appreciate it though.

It's amazingly important, sir, to everyone in the world community in my humble judgment.

Thank you.

Larad Niles.

My name's Lorad North.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak.

Um I came a couple months ago and was asked to come back after a month and return the results.

This has been happening in our neighborhood.

Um I'm here to update you on that.

Law and code enforcement uh concerns, public law enforcement is the number one concern of our entire community, I believe.

Uh I and the neighborhood still have serious concerns with the public safety and law enforcement in our area.

Um here to address the some of the issues.

I went to uh police chief Vasco's uh town hall meeting two, I think it was two weeks ago, and he talked about how he was progressing on tier one and tier two, completely ignored tier three, and I asked him about that, and he says I only have enough officers to address the first two tiers.

And uh I have serious concerns about that.

I've been affected by a lot of tier three issues.

Um we've had shortages for the police community for 18 years now, and it never gets addressed here.

We're using a water gun to put out a house fire here.

Um, for example, I've been doing with uh homeless person who's been living next door for the last 16 years or so.

I got introduced to the community with a break-in happening in the back of my property.

I come out and a car takes off.

This other person runs into the neighbor's place next door.

I call the police.

Uh and uh two hours later, this homeless person's meeting with the same people that were trying to break in and left a crowbar in the back of my property, and the police don't do anything.

They said, Well, nothing's been stolen.

Uh and uh this kind of thing's been going on.

This person was on heroin a few years ago, would go into heroin fits with his wife in the back of this property.

Uh two weeks ago, he shouted out from across the street that if he was gonna shoot somebody, he'd shoot me because I've been putting pressure on code enforcement to take care of some of the issues over here.

And uh this morning, I'm over.

Uh I uh called in uh car blocking our alley a couple weeks or a couple days ago.

That car was still there when I came here this morning.

Uh the police have not responded yet to that.

I called three times on it, one because they called me and said, Well, is it still there about three hours, four hours after that, and I wasn't able to answer the phone.

But my concern is we had 20 officers, I think last year were short, according to the FBI, uh, of 385 off sworn officers, and and to get a decent police force, we're gonna need to hire a hundred officers a year for four years.

That's 10 million dollars a year, additional to your budget.

And I see streets or sidewalks and streets being ready done, they're far better than ours, ten times better.

In fact, in all northern neighborhoods.

Thank you.

They have a budget of 120 million.

I think 10 million can be taken out of that budget and put into the police.

Yep, Mr.

Niles.

We're working on that right now in budget, Councilman Donaldson.

Yeah, thank you.

Um, sir, what's your address again?

What 1814 was from a hoe.

And that is in which city council district, do you know?

Three, I think.

One two, three.

I think you're right.

Three.

Okay.

And does Sam have your he has your contact info?

I guess we do too.

You sent me an email, I think.

But also, you know, um, code enforcement told me this is a legal structure in the back.

And then now it's out in the streets, unlicensed, no police it.

But as you can see, there's a mattress in there.

And then code enforcement tells me, well, he told us that he was living in the house.

They don't question anything.

And uh the guy lies about everything.

Uh I'm sorry.

This is ridiculous.

This has got to a point where tier three crimes escalate to tier one crimes because nothing's being done about it.

And uh, you know, our parks, you know, I looked yesterday at Vermahoe Park, there's homeless little encampments all over that park.

And the city does send people out there a day later, a day two, two days later, they're back.

Would you rather have the city spending uh an extra million dollars on PD, CSPD and law enforcement or on uh PTSD treatment?

Well, uh they need 10 million, but yes, I I want to see it going to the police department.

That's the number one concern in the city.

I hear you loud and clear.

Thank you.

Out of that budget, we have to find the money to support the police.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Daniel Pratz.

I hope I said that right.

Greetings.

Uh my name is Daniel Proots.

Um, I'm a former registered nurse uh with a bachelor of science and nursing, and part of that um included uh community health nursing.

Um I'd like to point out that not all homeless people are crime-ridden criminals, and um that it's uh not just limited to that, but uh I did come to speak on the topic of homelessness as it relates to the ongoing efforts with the Colorado Springs 2025 homeless response action plan and the executive overreach and the president's ending vagrancy and restoring order, which is a net which is not a national or even local emergency.

Uh both the Colorado Springs homeless action plan and ending vagrancy and restoring order executive orders use terms like compassionate or humane.

Colorado Springs has mandated sleeping of homeless shelters or face criminal charges for those who camping out.

Um those that are unhoused.

Uh, based on humane directives, one would expect shelters to be more habitable.

Uh some of the inhumane concerns at the shelter currently are as follows.

Uh approximately 75 of the mattresses have tears in them, which makes them a prime breeding ground for bed bugs.

Uh, there's concerns about scabies spreading and densely packed mattresses, one on top of another, or not on top, but adjacent to each other and everything.

So diseases um spread quite rapidly.

You know, I commend the city for their cleanup efforts, and uh personally, you know, like to see the ecosystem coming back.

Um, but that public safety issue or the pollution issue is just kind of getting refocused into the homeless community.

And um it's it's difficult to find and sustain employment if you can't stay healthy, and that's kind of some of the problems that they're experiencing in the relief center right now.

Um so with those directives with humane and compassionate uh oh well.

Um I have to ask um, would you consider that uh um a humane environment to live in?

Would you live in that kind of environment?

And we're we're trying to like get these people back in the the workforce.

Uh, but but the create greater concern is some uh recent executive orders by Donald Trump regarding these uh issues on vagrancy, and um to summarize, um they're essentially strip and HIPAA rights away to allow police uh departments to use diagnoses and stuff to funnel them towards whatever institution that they want.

The new uh executive order that Trump has uh thrown out there pretty much militarizes Washington DC and stuff based on homeless encampments and vagrancy under the guise of public safety.

There's no emergency crisis here.

It's this is thing these are things that have been prevalent for a long time.

Um and the major concern is he wants to or deploy the military to do this.

So the concerns here is how the how does the homeless action plan that the city has established, how is that going to align with this new these new executive orders?

Thank you, Mr.

Pratt Proots.

Did you see?

Thank you.

The stuff that we've outlined in these things.

So my uh request today is to bring up the topic of the homeless action plan and where the city is at and achieving its goals and these new barriers that you know are going to be brought up.

So I was wondering if that could be brought up in the next agenda to be discussed further at the next meeting.

Thank you for your comments.

Thanks.

Any questions or councilman Hindum?

Uh yes, actually, I was just wondering if the chief of staff could repeat what was stated earlier.

You may not have been here.

There was a report from the mayor's office about this.

Um, if the chief of staff could repeat that statement.

Sure, thank you.

Um I think the report that was given out of the mayor's office is that he is convening a group of stakeholders, um, I believe in the next week or two involving some of the shelter providers, some businesses in the area, um, of course, our public safety and our housing and homelessness officer to start discussing the gaps that do exist in the system, um, both in light of our budget situation and in vite of a in light of a changing federal environment.

Um, we are very interested in the conversation about how Colorado Springs can respond to homelessness in a way that gets measurable results.

And so um we are hopeful to make some progress there.

You are right, it is a longstanding issue, um, but that is something that very much has the administration's attention.

I I guess the big concern is the people feeling that they're gonna be hunted down like ICE immigrants, you know, citizens of the United States and stuff, you know, some of which have made six-figure incomes, and you know, life happens and people end up here and whatnot.

Um, you know, the the way everything's unfolding with ice and the recent executive order with what Trump is allowing it to happen in DC with military police taking over the county.

I mean it's not like Seattle where the homeless are uh the the liberals took over the city or something for a brief period of time.

There's no emergency here, so it's an it's an overreach.

And the the concern is that this is all gonna happen so fast and under the radar that nobody's gonna have time to react or a question the the legal process involve the challenge in this overreach.

So is that too much to ask that this be added to the agenda of the next council meeting in two weeks to discuss further?

That's an administration um objective, not a city council one.

So as she stated, they are in the process of putting those providers together and the nonprofits together to work on that specific issue.

Okay, so it's not something the city's willing to discuss further at this time.

The city is discussing it right now with the providers, and they're putting together a plan that will be presented to the community.

Okay, so is the community gonna have any involvement with that?

That's a question for the chief of staff.

That's a good question.

Um what we did or what we're working off is the 2024 homeless action plan, which is on the website now.

You can find it at Colorado Springs.gov.

And that was created um, I think the public input was last year in August.

And so I'd welcome you to go and have a look at that.

But it's always twice.

Great.

That's wonderful.

That's always evolving as our situation evolves.

And so I don't want to predict the future on exactly what this is gonna look like after this meeting.

Um, but just be assured that we will be sure to promote well when we're talking about it.

And and although we work with council leadership on agenda, we don't have something on the agenda, but certainly we can always uh look in the future when we are ready, and we will certainly keep the public and our city council partners up to date on where we're going with that.

Councilman Hingum, if I may, I just want to say, sir, over here.

I hear you.

I hear you loud and clear.

I share many, many of your concerns.

This is an ongoing conversation among city council members.

I'm having it with my constituents, we're having it with the city.

There is a huge question about what is the city's role in responding to homelessness.

It's a as you are clearly aware, there are really complex causes to the to the challenge, and this is an ongoing conversation that we're having.

So I just want you to know I hear you, I share your concerns.

We are talking about it, we are uh working on it, and there's a lot of energy and resource being put into this.

So I just want you to know I hear you.

How does the city feel about the integration of the military to force?

You and I can schedule an appointment and talk later if you'd like, you could meet with Sam and get a time on my calendar.

This is actually not the best place to have a dialogue, but I appreciate you coming and sharing your opinions.

Thank you.

Thank you.

John Hawk.

Good morning.

I'm the uh past president of the Guardians of Palmer Park, currently the special projects coordinator.

I coordinated all the community service projects in the park.

The Guardians put about 1,200 hours in Palmer Park.

Uh and we have a lot of support.

Mr.

Lineweber, I know you know Greg well, and he's a great supporter of a lot of nonprofits, including the guardians, which we appreciate it.

Um I want to point out to you that a healthy clean park increases the value of the real estate around those parks for a half a mile by 15%.

I live close to Wasson.

My house is valued about 450,000 dollars.

So we're talking about 70,000, which means more revenue for the city as well and taxes.

Something to think about.

My main purpose be here today is I would like uh councilwoman Nancy Hingem to come forward for presentation from the Guardians of Palmer Park.

We have a special uh presentation for you.

Nancy, if you would come forward.

Uh Madam President, I I I need your approval for this.

I have no idea this was coming at all.

Sure, you may go forward.

We would like to present uh councilwoman uh Nancy Henjam with uh one of our rustic plaques in honor and appreciation of her support of the parks, especially getting the um fire mitigation going in Palmer Park.

It was especially needed uh fire mitigation is very important to prevent our city from burning.

Nancy, we would like to present you.

I'm not the artist, but this is a very rustic appreciation to you.

And this is also one of our personal shirts, Guardians of Palmer Park, our brand new and orange one.

We'd like to present you with with a map of the park on the back.

So if you ever get lost, all you have to do is take off the shirt, look at the back, or you can find where you're at.

So an appreciation from Guardians of Park and sincere respect for you and all of your work on council uh in the parks, etc., we'd like to present this to you.

Thank you, John.

That's just totally unexpected.

Thank you.

Next up, we have Lajinos Gonzalez.

Uh thank you, uh Madame President, uh, Mr.

Pro Tem, uh council members, uh Lohinos Gonzalez.

Uh thank you for all the hard work that you do.

Uh I I too wanted to bring up that executive order from last week as it relates to the homelessness, and a concern that I now have based on that, uh, is that uh they're tying it to harm reduction.

And so my concern when we have a very tight budget and potential loss, I think, of grants that may go to homelessness, uh, because my concern that the federal government uh may look at Colorado Springs as supporting harm reduction uh efforts and uh needle exchanges, which are operating.

Uh, I have brought up before, I believe it is not uh operating in compliance with state law.

Our district attorney also believes that he was well, he knows he was not invited to uh the very specific requirement, which I keep bringing up, that to be compliant with state law before they started operating, they must have held stakeholder meetings that by the state law stated must include the district attorney and local law enforcement.

He says he did not participate.

Yeah, he says the former DA did not participate.

So my concern is the federal government's gonna look at us and say, well, uh, because I have there's evidence, of course, that I submitted an email to the police chief and the and the uh mayor last year, a year and a half ago.

Uh no official response uh closing that out.

So I have concerns that if the federal government were to look at evidence out there, it would be that we're in the same area of Denver, San Francisco, etc.

Uh, one of the things that's that's kind of vague, I get it, but this part's not vague.

Uh last year, uh Councilman Donaldson highlighted that at Pikes Peak Pride, uh, that nonprofit participated, gave out harm reduction stuff on their newsletter.

They said tabled both days giving away harm reduction supplies.

I don't know what they gave out.

It was brought up.

Did the city ask?

Did the mayor ask?

I don't know.

But uh, if you go to their website, they say on their website, equipment offered, and I'm not saying they gave out any of this, but on their own website, they do say syringes, sharps containers, tourniquets, cookers, content, sterile water, uh for say supplies, safe for snorting and smoking kits, etc.

So my concern and going back to this other thing, it happened at Pike's Peak Pride, which hey, great, but guess what?

But guess what?

That's taxpayer funded.

That's LARP funded.

And they also say in their own, in their own newsletter, this was at Alamo Square Park, a city park.

So if the federal government were to look at us, they would say harm reduction is happening, whether it's paperwork or actual equipment, potentially, I don't know, uh, given out on city parks, uh using potentially city funds at the event.

Uh and that's my concern.

So I asked the city or the mayor to look into this and answer the relevant questions, especially as it was just brought up.

Uh they're looking at how these executive orders may harm us.

Uh, in light of if if nothing happens there, I ask the city council to do three things, and hopefully maybe somebody will ask me what are those three things they can do with an ordinance?

Because I know I'm out of time.

And that'll be very quick, but I need to be asked.

Councilman Donaldson.

Uh thank you.

Thanks, Madam President.

And first I want to recognize that uh Mr.

Laninos Gonzalez is a county commissioner, former county commissioner, he served eight years uh here in El Paso County and just recently uh were termed out.

So with that, I'd like to ask you what are those three things?

So, in a uh an article in Denver, Denver I don't know post, I believe.

Uh, but it highlighted that the Denver mayor vetoed a city ordinance up in Denver that would have reduced the setbacks for their needle to needle exchanges.

Uh and also that uh uh rejected the expanding of how many they could have.

So to me that implies that the city could pass an ordinance that would restrict how many needle exchanges, if they were operating legally, could operate in Colorado Springs.

They could be setbacks.

And if you included uh, you know, child care uh schools, hospitals, uh police stations and fire departments, that would be uh, I think uh easily helpful in this situation.

Uh and the other one that's not listed in that article, but perhaps if they were to have a restriction on uh mobile services, uh, I think you could show the federal government that uh we would be compliant with their requests because again, I am hopeful we do not lose any funds for our homeless uh initiatives, and I want to make sure that we support those initiatives, as I'm sure you do as well.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next up we have Lawrence Clark.

Hello, council, my name is Lawrence Clark.

As all of you know, I come here and I talk about honor, duty, and integrity.

One of the worst things that I hate in this world are liars and people who are corrupt.

People who accept money for nefarious reasons, whether it's legal or or not.

I'm we can talk about illegal and illegal all day long, but it's just funny, you know.

We talk about needle exchanges and and all that, and kind of a rough example is handing out firearms without bullets, you know, you guess heroin's not for sale like marijuana is here in the city, but you know, if we're just gonna hand out needles to people, we're just creating more problems for people to get poked more on the street.

I FaceTime my friend who lives in Minneapolis and he shows me on the ground five needles, six needles within a five-foot walking space.

If you had to step over five people who were literally overdosed on the street dead, you know, if we're gonna just procure all of these needles for all like for all these people, you know, it does seem like that's a disservice to the actual citizens who want to do good, who operate businesses, who have beautiful businesses here in Colorado Springs, because that's the whole point is to make Colorado beautiful.

And the more that we take away from making Colorado beautiful by accepting funny money from certain corporations or certain groups, you know, and especially people who run unelected and we'd still receive money from that, that just seems kind of sketchy to me.

But you know, if we're just gonna just keep on giving out all these needles and we're just gonna be try to be the next California or the oil or the next Portland, Oregon, it's not gonna work for us.

And we we we will not survive uh as a city.

I mean, we're already 10 10.2 million dollars behind in our deficit.

I mean, why are you asking the people for more taxes and the people for more money and not having businesses owned by the city?

Like I'm not saying have a huge mecca business, I'm just saying a few laundromats.

I mean, power and all that could be given by the utilities over there.

You know, it's we can do more with what we already have.

And it just feels like what we're already spending on is not really uh effective with the police response.

I remember when somebody was trying to kick in my door.

I called the police four times.

They didn't show up till two hours and 45 minutes later.

I even asked the person who I was on the phone with, the like the uh operator, if I could use like the castle doctrine.

Someone coming in, breaking my saying that they're gonna shoot me, shoot my girlfriend, shoot my roommates.

You know, there was no immediate on that.

You know, I I would like to see where all of this money is going to, because we're gonna say money is going to places, but if we the people can't actually see where all of this money is going to, I mean, it's just gonna stuff the coffers of the of the pockets that are full of margarine because money slips in, money slips out, and nobody has any idea where it goes or how they get it or who they get it from.

You know, and then if we're just gonna get on our on our knees and bark like good little dogs, that's not the way that Colorado Springs should ever be or should ever operate.

Thank you very much.

Don Briggs.

Good morning.

I'm Don Briggs from the Colorado Springs Homeless Union.

And uh I notice that the mayor has just said that the word of the year is data.

Data.

I'm a systems analyst and a uh a um I I analyze data and I look at things.

Uh we consider that an acronym, acronym data.

Data analyze, take action.

Otherwise, it's just numbers.

So I actually have been looking through some of the numbers of money that's you've already spent, and what I've come up with.

This is just initial data, we'll get you the better uh numbers.

But uh what we've come up with is 2.4 million dollars.

The city has spent in giving homeless people homeless tickets.

You call them camping tickets.

Basically, to tell a homeless person that they're homeless.

Every time you do that, it costs you $2300.

I have one in my backpack.

I didn't bring it up.

Uh also a lot of times these people have not gone to uh court on previous homeless tickets that they've had, so there's an arrest warrant for them.

That arrest warrant uh costs about $4,000 to take a person to jail for the night to tell them that they didn't go to court because they didn't for the ticket that told them they're homeless.

What what what are we getting?

What do you where are we going?

I don't get it.

We're we're what are we doing?

This is money that's already been spent.

The total comes to about 3.8 million dollars over the past 12 months.

Now also, Colorado Springs has fallen from the third most wonderful city to live in to number 405 over the past 12 months.

That is uh 1.1 slots per day.

Uh at least from the homeless side, that represents a cost of 9,382 per slot fallen that you've paid.

Was that the intended money?

Was that the intended result?

This is money that you're already spending.

It's data.

Data must be analyzed, and then you have to take action on it.

This action is not working.

You're wasting this money.

The result of what you've spent on this money is that Colorado Springs has fallen.

It's going down, and it's up to you to either decide that that's what you wish to do or that you want to change direction.

Uh I'm also looking for how many people have received homeless tickets and subsequently decided to no longer be homeless.

I'm suspecting that the number is somewhere around zero.

But we're we're actually requesting that data now.

So um, four million dollars, down 400 slots.

There's lots of money that's going to be invested in the United States in various cities.

They may invest in number three.

Everyone anyone would be happy to invest in the third most uh the third most beautiful city.

They're not going to invest in number 405.

Thank you.

Next up we have Candy Lewis.

Good morning.

My name is Candy Lewis, and I'm one of the Colorado Springs homeless union members.

The point in time count is a HUD required count of the homeless population.

This is how HUD determines who gets what funding.

In recent years, it has been way off the cr the actual numbers.

The people who are in jail aren't counted because they are considered sheltered, but still return to the street when they are released.

The people in motels are couch surfing, are not counted because they are considered sheltered, but they still return to the street.

So don't let the government tell you that the government is making progress with lessening homelessness.

All the government has done is try to sweep us under the rug, out of sight, out of mind, so to speak.

The unhoused community could honestly use less interactions with the police and more outreach and compassion.

Every heartbeat deserves a home.

Instead of throwing people in jail and clogging up the court system, how about utilizing the much unrecognized talent and knowledge of the homeless people in our community and start rehabbing empty buildings for the unhoused people?

With all the empty properties around this town, nobody should be homeless.

With homeless people being run out of Washington, DC in order to make it safer and cleaner because the executive order.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next we have Emory Jenkins.

Do you mind if I comment real quick?

Oh, yes, you may, Councilman Williams.

I would I would love to, because she said it better than I did.

That's exactly what the goal of Clean and Safe is to have the interactions be more personal and less you know with PD.

Our goal is to really personally address what's going on in downtown Colorado Springs and not have it be at a level that we're not really looking for.

Like we don't want to get to that point.

That's last resort.

That doesn't want to be our first response.

So my apologies, I didn't catch her name, but uh she said it perfectly.

Thank you.

Next we have Carl Nels.

Oh, Embry, I'm so sorry you got crossed off here, and you're back on me, Iris Jenkins.

Thank you.

Yep.

Uh I'm Reese, and I'm here with the Colorado Springs Homeless Union.

Um I'm gonna jump around a bit because I really appreciate the the topics that have been um discussed by previous commenters.

Um but I've been told that numbers don't lie, but I know that uh that people do.

So to reiterate, the point in time count is a data collection process that serves the specific purpose of uh fulfilling grant requirements for federal funds.

Never by the people uh on the ground have I heard this number um be represented as an accurate um reflection of the number of unhoused people in our community.

Rather, um there are entire peer-reviewed data processes um by experts on the ground.

2024 is Colorado State of Homelessness Reports, uh, which compares several uh data points and from several collection samples, um, those not based on one night in the winter, for example, have uh shown that estimated that there are nearly 7,000 people in our city um in 2024.

And yet, that same year, Mayor Yemen claimed that there are less than 1,150 people uh in that population.

He then used that number to claim and take credit for a quote 12% decrease uh in homelessness.

He misused the pit data to justify waste and justify neglects.

There were for a budget that you approved, and a budget that's failing.

Um I'd like to I'd like to point out that by the mayor's logic and by you know the city's public representation last year of uh of the count, you approved a budget that increased homelessness by 52%.

Um you don't get to pick and choose numbers and and what they mean, um, not if you aim to genuinely support the will and well-being of your constituents.

Um I'd like to point out that today that's been discussed by a lot of people who are um approaching homelessness in uh perhaps uh a different way than I might.

Um, but the the theme that's being put out is that what we're doing isn't working.

The thing that's being pointed out is that the budget isn't working.

I like to point out for folks that the majority of the homeless response budget is going to enforce.

The majority of the horse homeless response budget is going to the police department.

I appreciate Donaldson's question of would you rather have another million into the police department or would you rather have PTSD services?

And I think that's a great question because there are already millions being wasted.

And uh, you know, I I just I want to go back to, you know, you you can't be misres representing um data uh if serving the will of the people.

Um and so I, you know, I ask you why you're preparing for the budget cycle, whose will has been uh prioritized through this misrepresentation and through this wasteful budget.

And uh whose will will you prioritize uh with this coming budget?

Um I'll also be interested.

I I just heard like this is my first time hearing about the mayor's meeting, and I'd be in I'll be interested to see who's invited to that.

And thank you.

Next up we have Carl Nelson.

I hope I said that correctly.

Sorry.

Is it did I say that correctly, Nels?

Yes, you did.

Thank you.

Yes, thank you.

Thank you, City Council, for the opportunity to be here and speak to the question of CPA requirements for a city auditor.

My name is Carl Nels.

I've been a resident for 25 years.

I was CIO for the city for six plus years, so I've been audited by city audit.

I was also a part-time information systems auditor for three years.

So I performed audits for city audit.

So that gives me multiple perspectives on the value of credentials.

Credentials like a CPA are important because they demonstrate the knowledge and expertise to do the job.

For someone being audited, uh, particularly as a department head, speaking to another department head, uh, knowing that they know their business and have the experience and the expertise to properly evaluate your department is very important.

That determines my openness to being performing that audit and cooperating with that audit, and most importantly appreciating and responding to and remediating the findings.

Um as an auditor, it's very important for their department head to have the appropriate credentials because you run into a lot of issues when you're doing an audit, and you need your boss to know what you're saying, why it's important, and be able to support you and back you up when it comes time to deal with the client.

But perhaps the most important perspective is the citizen perspective.

The auditor's job is to hold all of the departments of an organization to objective and high standards.

And that determines the quality that those departments deliver.

So if the auditor is not held to a CPA requirement, one that they personally agreed to, then what happens when their co-worker, their previous co-workers and their previous bosses, show up and say, I don't really like this requirement.

Maybe you could cut me a little bit of slack here.

We'll look the other way.

I think the decision of the council on this topic will set a precedent for standards and qualifications important, or can they just be changed and dismissed for no particular good reason?

I applaud uh councilman Donaldson's efforts to be open and transparent in the uh determining of the credentials and ensure the selection process is open and fair and based on how little support he got in trying to do that.

And the fact that I don't think this issue passes the sniff test.

Mr.

Yels, we have a question from Councilman Bailey.

Sorry.

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair President.

Um, not so much a question, but just an observation.

It it concerns me a little bit that uh you seem to think so poorly of city employees and that their specific relationships with an auditor would um affect their willingness to participate in an audit when the audit is um ordered, requested, directed by city council or the mayor, and I would hope that city employees, at least current city employees, are professional enough to understand that oversight is part of um government's job, and that when the auditor shows up, it really doesn't matter what uh certificates that auditor has on the wall, but the auditor's coming in to ask certain questions and find out information about the performance of that department, and it's really irrelevant whether you think those questions are relevant or the questioner, the auditor is qualified to ask them.

You seem to think so poorly of city employees and that their specific relationships with an auditor would um affect their willingness to participate in an audit when the audit is um ordered, requested, directed by city council or the mayor, and I would hope that city employees, at least current city employees, are professional enough to understand that oversight is part of um government's job, and that when the auditor shows up, it really doesn't matter what uh certificates that auditor has on the wall, but the auditor is coming in to ask certain questions and find out information about the performance of that department, and it's really irrelevant whether you think those questions are relevant or the questioner, the auditor is qualified to ask them.

If we have city employees that aren't willing to participate and cooperate with an audit, they need to go because city government has a responsibility to make sure that government is functioning properly.

And if the bureaucrats are going to try to um you know stonewall just because they seem to have a personal um issue with the auditor, that's a problem.

That's a bigger problem for government than whether or not we have a certain qualification or requirement for a job.

Sir, I still wear my city pen.

I'm very proud to have been a city employee.

I very I am and I'm very proud of the service that I provided.

And I can assure you that I was I look forward to the cooperation and support of city audit.

And I even joined the organization when I was done being CIO.

So what I'm talking about is people's normal human reactions, and not necessarily what any one individual Again, I wasn't looking to start a dialogue here.

I understand your statement.

I understand your statement, and I made mine.

And now I think your time is up, but I believe one of my colleagues may have some other questions for you or give you the opportunity to continue, but you don't need to be answering me because I didn't ask you a question and didn't invite a dialogue.

Councilman Donaldson, I'd ask Mr.

Nels if I think you were interrupted if you'd like to continue, if that's okay with our president.

Well, his time was up.

His time is up, and I think that we understood the point.

And I think this demonstrates that there is a hidden agenda on this, and it's not an issue of being open and clear and fair.

There's something going on here, and it smells really bad.

And if I could, Madam President, before Mr.

Nels uh walks away from the microphone, I I want to thank him for speaking honestly today.

I appreciate that.

Um It takes uh it takes courage to speak out publicly on this.

I've been contacted by many uh people who don't want to say things publicly, but they uh are expressing their concern about how this appears, uh at least how it appears.

And so I want to thank those who do have the courage to do this, especially when you come in front of council and you're kind of uh uh treated uh pretty abruptly.

And and so thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah, I would just reiterate this has been a very public process.

Um maybe it should be.

And there has been, from my point of view, no hidden agenda, it's been very public from the very beginning with the information from HR, the legal department, everybody up here has done their own specific research.

Um, so if you can find information or proof of that, that would be much appreciative.

And next up we have um Denny Nestor.

I want to make I'm limited to three minutes, even though this item was on the agenda and was rescheduled for comments later.

Is that correct?

I said I wouldn't allow them later, but you have three minutes.

All right.

And Madam President, if I could, I would ask uh the former uh city auditor, Mr.

Nestor, how many minutes uh do you need, sir?

My prepared statement was about six minutes.

And and Madam President, I would uh ask that we allow Mr.

Nestor six minutes.

I never allowed public comment on this, and there was a motion and it wasn't second, and you have three minutes.

All right.

So Stephen Covey said, if you can't make and keep commitments to ourselves as well as to others, our commitments become meaningless.

Matthew 537 says simply let your yes be yes and your no.

The city auditor made an agreement, a commitment to obtain the CPA certification when she was hired.

Now, less than five months after taking an oath of office and agreeing to obtain the CPA certification.

Council is saying that she doesn't need to honor that commitment.

At this point, the new auditor does not know what she does not know.

There's a lot that's involved in the city auditor's position.

I was the city auditor for 10 years.

I worked in the office for 20.

And this just does not smell right, as Mr.

Nell said.

I'll try to keep it to three minutes.

I'll you know, I've made the analogies of you know, hiring a city auditor without the CPA as being similar to having a city attorney who's not passed the bar, or the director of nursing at a large hospital without a nursing license.

These are positions that have you have a specific minimum requirement that's included in the job description, as was in the description when the city auditor chose to apply for this job.

I care about this issue because I worked in the office of the city auditor for over 20 years, and during that time the office developed greatly.

We came became compliant with professional audit standards, and I hired a very competent and qualified staff.

I actually served on that the board of that organization you mentioned earlier, the Association of Local Government Auditors.

I served on their board for several years, and our audit office had a great reputation.

I don't want to see that diminished by changes in policy.

You know, there's there's standards that are put out there that you've already agreed to.

One of those standards is uh 2.2 that says safeguarding objectivity of auditors.

An internal auditor must avoid conflict of interest and must not be unduly influenced by their own interest.

The current city auditor would be the primary beneficiary of this change.

And some might call that self dealing, you know.

And there's so many other issues that come up with this that just haven't been addressed.

You have there wasn't a valid argument for why you should move away from having requirements.

It doesn't make sense.

I'll honor your request to stop.

And that is the end of our public comment, and that is actually the conclusion of our council meeting today.

We are adjourned.