All right, good afternoon, and welcome to the call of the streets historic preservation board meeting for October 6, 2025.

The historic preservation board is comprised of seven members appointed by city council to administer the historic preservation code.

Historic preservation board members are community volunteers with expertise across a wide variety of disciplines.

Each member acts independently, carefully assessing all the evidence presented to make their decision.

Present acting chair Baumgartner.

Board member Fitzsimmons.

Board member Potter.

Board member Beerbaum.

Present.

Board Member Heinz.

Thank you.

We have four members present.

Okay.

And I don't see any changes to agenda.

Um so moving to communications bill.

All right, I have a few um things to bring up for this evening.

Hold on, let me share my screen.

Further one.

All right.

Um so just a couple items.

Um we have our annual report work plan to city council, and we'll be doing those um in November.

Uh the same for ethics.

We have an ethics training.

Um that we'll also do um in November.

We have one item, a report of acceptability that will be reviewed also.

Then I think the only other announcement to the board that I have would be that the satellite hotel did receive it, was a unanimous uh recommendation from the state's historic preservation board to be listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

And I know that um recommendation has been forwarded to um the National Park Service for uh final confirmation.

So um I guess depending on you know how long that takes, but I think typically I don't know, 60 to 90 days or something like that, but it could be longer at this point in time, you know.

So 45 days once they're back.

Okay, yeah.

So um anyhow, that's I think that's good news.

And then um I guess as always we also have a section for board communication if there is any.

So um that um chair Baumgartner, that is it for um communications on my board.

All right, great, thank you, sir.

Uh so then we move on to approval of the minutes uh HPV 2312 minutes for September 8th, 2025 historic preservation board meeting.

Um, can we get a roll call vote for that?

Or um we need a motion for that.

Can we get a motion for that, please?

For September 8th, 2025.

I second.

Okay, now can we get a roll call vote, please?

Board member music.

Aye.

Board member Fitzsimmons.

Aye.

Board member Beerbaum.

Aye.

Thank you.

All right.

Then moving on to consent calendar.

Well, there was one thing on the consent calendar, correct?

Yeah, there are no items on the consent calendar this afternoon.

Okay, no items on the consent calendar.

No items called off the consent calendar.

So moving on to unfinished business, historic resources survey plan.

Okay, so um here we are.

Um item 7a.

This is our big day.

This is unfinished and hopefully finished business for uh this afternoon.

So I will give um the board just to and and everyone online a quick overview with this project.

Um the historic resources survey and context plan was an action item in historic uh COS, our historic preservation board.

Um did prioritize this um in 2022.

They prepared a grant application to the state historic fund, which it received funding in the fall.

In 2023, we hired um our consultant, Ron Slotic of Tatonka Historical Associates.

He's here in the room with us all um this afternoon.

Uh we initiated work on this plan in 2024.

We had a draft completed uh for review by the historic preservation board um and the public in March of 2025.

Um this plan did have um significant review um and participation by uh our historic preservation boards, the historic preservation alliance, the historic neighborhood partnership, the state historic fund, and many uh historic preservation advocates um uh throughout the city.

So we presented the final draft to the board um in August of 2025.

That draft um has been edited to address board comments, state historic fund uh comments and also um comments that we received from many of our historic preservation um advocates.

The plan that we did provide to the board um I think approximately now three to three and a half weeks ago.

Um uh did only receive one additional comment when it was reviewed.

Um that was a comment related to uh the neighborhood map um that was contained in the city.

It's a um it was a comment as is it related to um identification of some of the neighborhoods and that um many of the neighborhoods listed on that map, there may be sub-neighborhoods um listed on those.

Um so you will see that um staff um is recommending just adding a note to the neighborhood maps to acknowledge that comment, but um uh I would just say that um as it relates to the kind of context of this map of this project and also kind of the scale of this project that um uh trying to identify all of our um neighborhoods and sub-neighborhoods as some or all of us may you know think about um is um it's important um but um it would really require us probably to do a lot more work particularly mapping work and uh just feel like that something that we do um not only by the historic preservation board, but it's probably also something that would be important uh that the city does because we do a lot of neighborhood funding, and I think maybe some of those things could be included in that and it's I think it's a much broader subject than uh historic um resource surveys and um the context of our um history here in um the city.

So um and uh I know it's probably really hard to see if you are in the room, but maybe on the uh map.

I did have a recommended uh note.

Um it's on the bottom right hand side of the page here, but um I think to conclude um staff believes that this plan is ready for the approval of um the historic preservation and um on this sheet here is or this um on the screen now is the motion uh with four conditions for the approval of the historic resources survey plan.

So Paul, I'll turn it back to you.

Uh um if you would want to ask for any public or board comment.

All right, thank you, Belle.

Is there any uh public or board comment at this time?

I would note these are the same conditions that we had presented um at in August uh with the addition of uh condition number two that adds a note to the neighborhood.

Um it's on the sheet too in front of the yeah it's on the sheet too.

Hold on, I can be something uh yeah, they were on the table.

Oh, okay.

Oh sorry, yeah.

Um but I believe you said it has been approved by the history of Colorado State Historical Fund.

There's not it's not okay.

We've got an all indication that they have reviewed it.

So I'm sat down with them.

Um indications that your comments have been addressed, but uh they will not get final approval until we submit until we do until we submit them the final draft.

Okay, any other questions or comments.

All right, nothing heard here.

Is it okay to proceed?

Um do we have a motion to approve that's I yes, we do I think it's fabulous.

Thank you, Ron.

This is this is really something we can be proud of.

So I move to approve the historic resources survey plan based on the findings that complies with plan COS, historic COS, and the requirements and standards of the grant agreement with the state historic fund and the scope of work set forth in the city's consultant services agreement with the following conditions.

Do I have to read them all out?

I think you could just with the conditions listed up yeah, yeah.

I think that's fine.

Survey second.

It's called the title is historic resources survey plan uh and context.

Excuse me, so historic resources, survey and context plan.

Okay, the title on the cover pages historic resources survey and context plan.

So the motion doesn't show that.

Sorry.

I think it's clear.

I mean the document is referenced pretty clearly in the agenda.

We're all talking about the same thing.

I don't see any reason why we couldn't amend it to add and context.

The motion.

Yeah, amend the motion is what you're suggesting.

I'll second the motion and then I'll uh but then I'd like to amend it to include and context.

Are you do you accept the amendment?

So move I'll make another motion.

No, no, we just need to vote on this one first.

I believe you second it.

Yes, I they both do.

Are we ready for a roll call?

I'll do the roll call for the um motion that was just mentioned.

Uh board member music.

Right.

Claire Baumgartner.

Hi.

Board member Fitzsimmons.

Aye.

Board member Bierbaum.

Aye.

Board member Heinz.

Hi.

Thank you.

The vote passes five uh with five votes in favor.

Uh shouldn't have brought it.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, if I might be able to say just a couple words, please.

Um, first of all, I've been coming to Colorado Springs since I was a little kid, as early as I can remember, because I grew up in on the south end of Denver.

To get a chance to study the city in this way, has been absolutely thrilling.

I now know Colorado Springs as I never have before.

And I thank you for that.

Um secondly, uh, there's no way I could have got this project done without this guy right here.

The guy who was right there.

Uh Bill has been a tremendous partner to work with, and the city has a tremendous asset in him in the planning department, uh community development.

And um I I thank him for all the dozens and dozens of meetings that we had online and in person to get through this project.

I also have to thank a few people in particular, Judy uh and uh Pat.

Um and Tim Scanlon and Diane.

I mean, my gosh, the the and so many others, but you four in particular, the information that you provided to me um was just outstanding.

Um, this is not just the product of me, this is a product of the community, and that came through all the comments.

I mean, dozens and dozens and dozens of emails that I received.

Some of you know because you wrote a few dozen of those.

Um I uh I mean, I was getting just tremendous input for this project, more than I think I've ever had on any other project I've ever worked on.

Um, so the public input through you was outstanding.

Um Collar Springs has a tremendous group of preservation advocates, and that was very evident in the in-person meetings we had in a few of the homes, right?

In the north end, and um, and then meeting with all of the preservation board members.

Uh all of you have had wonderful input on this project.

So I I couldn't have done this.

This was for me, I've been in the field for over 30 years.

This was probably one of the most for sure, not probably one of the most complicated projects I've ever worked on.

Um Calder Springs is huge, it has a history like a layer cake.

Uh so many levels of things going on in the city, uh, more than many other places I've ever worked in.

The history is multi-layered, and to come to understand it and understand the physical resources associated with it was just a huge mountain to climb, but we got there.

So again, it couldn't have been done without all of you.

So thank you very much.

Thank you for the opportunity to work on this.

I'm sad that the project is over.

I really am because it's been such a pleasure to work with all of you.

So please relate those comments to your colleagues who are not here tonight because I'd like them to know what an impact they had on this.

And as you see in these notes, I will be providing all those gazillion photographs that were taken.

They weren't ignored.

I was looking at every single one of those photos.

They informed me about the character of the neighborhoods.

Those are gonna all end up with Bill in the next week or two, and he'll uh as it mentions here, get many of them posted online.

They weren't uh just because they didn't end up in the actual document, it would have been twice this long.

Um, they they were very instructive.

So thank you very much.

That those are my comments.

Yeah, thank you.

Yeah, thank you so much for all the time and effort you put into this.

It's a very extensive, amazing document.

I think the entire board is very appreciative.

Thank you.

I hope it's useful for you guys to for many years to come and really spark some new um efforts on the part of the city and on the part of the community.

Well, anyway, we could get a summary of those comments to city council and the mayor.

We'll be presenting.

Ron just said, yeah, I mean, from his from his words.

Oh, these words, yeah.

From Ron.

Yeah, the complexity, yeah, yeah, complexity, the interesting heritage that we have.

I think coming from someone who did a survey like this would be maybe more impactful than coming from some of us.

Will you be at the meeting where it's presented to the city council?

Or we hadn't talked about the document.

It would only be if Ron would want to come down and help us present.

Just a question of when it when it's going to happen.

So we'd have to look at the calendar.

As long as I'm not already booked to be somewhere else.

Be happy to do that.

Yeah, it'd be nice to have yeah, and I could I can the same comments I just did.

Yeah, happy to do that.

Can you clarify uh the process after this?

It does it go to council for a vote, or no, just a purely uh presentation, just as we always discuss it.

It's just here's what we've done.

But it's a work product of the preservation board, right?

Right, it is that's correct.

That's correct.

But that hasn't uh the information presentation to city council has not been scheduled.

It's not on the agenda.

No.

Okay.

I I think when we do present it to council, we can make sure they have a copy of the minutes and the minutes are based on a recording of the meeting.

So they all understand bronze comments.

Is it going to planning commission?

We're going to do the same to planning.

Just uh a presentation, not approval.

Just a courtesy.

Thank you.

This is the right great.

I think we're ready to move on to new business.

Yes.

Yes.

All right.

So maybe it's a business historical preservation overlay.

Alpha HIST 2509.

Report of acceptability for a meal.

550 square feet, one story detox garage.

In the rear yard couple located 1911 board cascade.

Bill, did you have some comments for that?

Did you hear that, Bill?

Yep, I'm ready.

Yes, do you have a question?

No, I didn't I didn't hear that.

I think he asked if you had anything in order to add about the project or if you want to.

Yep, no, I do.

Uh yes, I do.

Paul.

Um I will I'll get that going right now.

Um we do have the applicants uh for this uh application online uh Paul for um they may have a short presentation, um not a formal one, uh, but they are here to address any uh questions as well.

So this is a report of acceptability application for a new detached garage at 1909 uh North Cascade Street.

Um so you can see that we are um we're between uh Washington and uh Fontenero uh with Cascade on the west and uh Nevada um to the east.

Uh and the property is highlighted um in red.

Um and it's generally in kind of the middle of the historic preservation overlay district uh for the old north with the old north end.

Um the property um it is developed with a uh single family uh home.

Um there is a historic um detached garage um in the rear of the property.

Um it is um in these photos, you really can't um uh see that um, but um and you can see in the lower left or the lower right hand image kind of the existing condition uh of the rear yard of the property where the garage is going to be located.

Um there were two previous previously there were two outbuildings um in this location.

They have uh since been uh uh demoed only the home on this property, um was listed as a contributing structure uh in the um in the north end um when it was constructed uh and its construction date is approximately 19 um 1925.

Um the applicant is uh proposing to build a uh new uh one story um approximately to 500 square foot um garage, the northeast uh yeah, the northeast corner of the um the lot um this uh proposed uh structure um um you know it's location in the rear yard, um, its size uh and scale and height being smaller than the uh the main home.

Um it also has uh uh characteristics um of the uh of the main house and the uh guidelines for the uh north end.

Um there are uh it is recommended that the that these outbuildings are smaller and definitely smaller in scale and include um uh some of the characteristics, but not all of the characteristics of um of the main of the main house, and that is uh mainly because that is typically the character of the outbuildings um the period when um these sites and lots were um that developed that the outbuildings weren't you know I um they weren't identical in character to the um to the main house, they were just they just had features and characteristics.

There are some recommended changes that staff had um included in the staff report.

Um and those um would include um some recommendations to uh wrap the brick around the corners of the garage and um that the top course of brick um at those corners would include a top brick course that would match the the sill um that is on the front elevation of the home.

You can also see it used on the south elevation of the um the garage and I think with those changes um uh staff found that the application would meet the criteria uh for um a report of acceptability and included on this final slide uh for this for the board um is a motion of approval and that motion of approval contains uh the two conditions that I went over and then it also includes a motion of denial if the board finds that the application does not mute uh the review criteria and that concludes uh staff's presentation and then uh all we do have um the applicants here they're online so we'd like to see if they have uh any additional um description they'd like to provide of their project or if they're here just to answer any questions the board may have.

Yes, would the applicants have anything for there to add at this time?

Uh nothing further to add other than uh we will adhere to any recommendations at the board requests in regards to the finish of the exterior finishes what is the square footage of this garage five hundred and fifty square feet one by one two each any other questions or comments in the board I agree with the suggestions from staff.

I think they're good suggestions to uh integrate with the house okay great, thank you.

Uh do we have a motion to approve or delay go for it, Jim?

Yeah.

Can the applicant present the motion?

No, no.

Okay.

Well, I'll move if you want a second.

I move we approve the report of acceptability for the 1909 North Cascade Detached Garage based on the findings with the review criteria for report of acceptability are net as set forth in city code section 7.5.528 with the following conditions.

One, the brick brick wane scotting is wrapped around the southeast and northeast corner of the garage, two foot six inches.

Two, the top brick course of the Wayne Scotting is changed to a dark brick with row lock orientation to match front porch column and sill under the front window of the residence.

All right, thank you.

Do we have a second?

Okay, great, thank you.

And the roll call vote, please.

Hi board member Pittsin's.

Hi.

Board member Baerbaum.

Hi.

Board Member and Hines.

Board Member Music.

Thank you.

The vote passes with five.

Sorry, the motion passes with five votes in favor.

All right.

Thank you very much.

All right.

And we're ready to move on to presentations and updates, Bill.

Yes, we are.

Yes.

All right.

All right.

All right.

Thank you.

All right.

Now right, presentations and updates.

Let's see historic fund.

All right.

I'll just introduce um Lindsay.

So Lindsay Flewelling is from the State Historic Fund.

She is the state's certified local government coordinator.

So and one, she's just visiting us because she wants to see how we conduct our business.

It's part of our um CLG certification.

But I also asked Lindsay if she could give us an update on kind of higher level historic preservation um subjects going subject matter going on, like state level, federal level, um anything interesting, what opportunities might be in front of us, you know, now that we have uh adopted a historic resources survey plan.

And um one thing I did mention to um Lindsay as well was possibility of having um or being able to coordinate with the state to have them do like a historic preservation board training sometime in the future.

So uh with that I'll turn it over to Lindsay, and I don't know maybe if each of you could just introduce yourself to uh to Lindsay, just to let her know who she is or who you are.

And Judy Beerbaum.

Um Jim Hines.

And then Lindsay Online, we have Matt Simmons and Paul Bonker.

Hello.

Hello, welcome.

Great.

Well thanks for having me.

Can you hear me okay online?

Okay, great.

Yes, we can.

Yeah, it'll be fine.

We got uh like Bill is saying, I'm Lindsay Flewelling.

I'm my job title is preservation planner, but my main uh role is to work as the CLG coordinator um for History Colorado.

Um the CLG program is a local government partnership program with the state historic preservation office, um, which is history colorado and Colorado, and then we also call it the Office of Archaeology and Historic Preservation, but it's all of the same thing essentially.

And then at the federal level we work with the National Park Service um through their preservation um staff.

There's currently 68 certified local governments in Colorado and about 2100 CLGs nationwide.

The biggest benefits for the CLG program.

Um so we get a portion of our office funding uh from the federal grant, and we're required to sub-grant at least 10% of those funds to the certified local governments.

And because we also have the state historical fund in Colorado, they actually provide a match um to those CLG grant funds so that we can offer no match grants to the local governments, and those um generally cover things that benefit your local government preservation program specifically.

So it'll be things like preservation plans, surveys and survey plans, design guideline updates, um, education and outreach projects, things that specifically benefit the um local preservation program.

Um we have a current grant uh round open right now that's just doing education and outreach um projects if you're interested.

Um it's for up to 25,000 um per CLG.

And those are due on October 27th, so it's coming up pretty fast.

Um, but I'm hoping um sorry, like normal grant round uh for FY26.

We're aiming to open um applications on November 15th, depending on uh the federal budget situation and do mid-February.

Um, but I'll just be communicating with Phil about uh and all the CLGs about those um application opening and the deadline once we know more about our um budget situation, but that will be for all of the categories that CLG grants cover, not just education and outreach, but we do have the education and outreach ones open now.

Um another CLG benefit is National Park Service grants.

So they specific grants for preservation that can include like physical preservation and construction, but also include things like survey historic context studies and designation applic uh nominations.

So for the national register.

Those are a little unpredictable when they uh come out each year.

Um, but they have um well, they they just periodically um update us for when when they're available.

Um, but that's a CLG benefit as well.

Um, one of the most recent ones that they had was for um uh designated properties in um counties that have been in federally declared disaster areas.

Um so if a property needed to have you know rehabilitation work done or additional like survey in that neighborhood or or part of the county, um they were offering funding for for federally declared disaster areas.

So that's something to look out for that that type of grant in the future or other park service grants as well that are a CLG benefit.

Another big benefit of the CLG program is that your locally designated properties and any contributing properties in local um historic districts are eligible for the state um tax credits.

So we have state residential tax credits, which are for um 20% of rehabilitation expenditures.

Um I guess one update to give you guys is um those.

So they're currently um you get uh tax credit for on your state income tax uh over a 10-year period.

So if you don't have that high of a state income tax liability, you can spread it out over 10 years and get the credits each year.

But in 2027, they're going to change to be fully refundable.

So this is really a great um change to the program.

Um essentially you'll um do your project, send in your income tax return, and then the state will just write you a check for that amount that you get for the tax credits.

So your 20% will just come right back to you after your tax return is um submitted and approved by the state.

So that will be a really big benefit for the program and allow many more people to access those tax credits.

Um that's for residential.

That's really the big um residential incentive for historic preservation in Colorado.

And we are really lucky to have anything for residential properties.

Um then for the state commercial tax credit.

Um, those are for um it's like 25% for the first $2 million spent on a project, and then 20% on the rest of a project up to a million dollars in tax credits for the state commercial credit.

Um, for those, and there's a federal tax credit as well for commercial properties.

Um, the person to contact is Sarah Capel in our office, and she uh processes quite a few applications from Colorado Springs, which is really great.

Um, but she's um just very enthusiastic about tax credits.

Um happy to talk to any property owners about potential projects for those.

And then as you know, the state also has the state historical fund that offers grants.

Um those are for up to 250,000, um, which could include like physical preservation, um, both construction and planning work uh for properties.

And then they also cover, as you've just done, the same sorts of things that the CLG grants cover for your local government, like surveys, um, survey plans, preservation plans, education and outreach, things like that as well.

Um their next grant deadline is April 1st.

Um, but they also have those non-competitive rolling grants for planning projects as well, um, if there's anything that comes to mind for those.

Um, there's also a CLG benefit is also training um opportunities.

We uh give scholarships for the Saving Places conference each year, and then some other preservation um training opportunities like that.

Um, I also do uh webinar series.

Um we're having one in November on disaster and resilience planning.

So that should be really great.

Um then uh other uh training opportunities um, like for example, we did that um tax credit workshop um two years ago here.

So, you know, we're always happy to work with the CLGs on that type of training opportunity as well.

Um and then you guys get a formal role in the national register review process, which you just went through on the satellite hotel, and then a formal role in the Section 106 process, which is when there's a federally funded or federally licensed project in your local area.

On the flip side, for responsibilities for the CLG program.

Um the first one is to establish your own local preservation ordinance.

So part of my job is to just make sure everyone is following their own rules that they set for themselves, establish and maintain a commission, which you guys don't have any problems with, um, send meeting minutes over to my office and I read all of those.

Make sure you're providing for adequate participation for the public in your meetings and your preservation projects.

Maintain a system of survey and inventory, which you're doing with your survey plan.

One person from your historic preservation board needs to attend at least one historic preservation related training each year.

So that could be like a webinar or going to saving places, or if you have like the Pikes Peak Forum or things like that that somebody attends, like those all count for the training.

Submitting an annual report, which is due November 1st, that Bill takes care of for you guys.

And then every four years there's a CLG evaluation.

So that's why I'm here tonight.

So that entails me attending a historic preservation board meeting.

And then I'll have a staff meeting with Bill just to talk about like the future of your preservation program and how things are going.

And then I review every annual report from the past four years in your meeting minutes and any um like the survey plan, any projects that have come up in the last four years.

Um and I'll have a report out for that before the end of the year.

Um so that's the CLG program in a nutshell.

Um, and then I thought I'd quickly talk about some of the um things that Bill had listed out.

So how historic preservation is sort of structured at History Colorado at the state level.

So we have um on sort of one side of our office um programs that are federally funded that we carry out on behalf of the federal government, which is the Office of Archaeology and Historic Preservation, and those there's also programs that are um part of the State Register Act, um, and then the state office of the state archaeologist.

So on that side, um, we'll have like Section 106 compliance people.

So if you ever have a Section 106 project and you're like, what is going on with this?

Um there's people in our office working on the exact same project so they can answer questions about how something came about or why um like the area of potential effects looks a certain way, uh stuff like that.

So they're a really great resource for those types of things.

Um we have information management and they work on our cultural resource database.

So they keep track of all of the survey work that's been done throughout the state, and like I put in all my CLG grant projects and state historical fund does too, so we can like keep track of all the different projects.

Um and then there's the Office of the State Archaeologists who do archaeology projects around the state.

Um and then my unit, it's I work with the national and state register staff, and then like the CLG program is just me as a single person working on that.

And then we also have the state historical fund um staff, which um is a quite a large operation um since they give out about 11 million dollars in grants each year.

And then if you look at the federal uh historic preservation apparatus, they have um several different units of staff that work, you know, sort of hand in hand with um the different people at the state level as well.

So there's like specific staff that work on CLG uh programs, and they also do sort of the Park Service grants um administration as well.

Then there's tax credit reviewer staff at the park service level, and there's um compliance staff um section 106 at the park service level, and then the national register staff.

So there's all these different um people at the federal level that um then work with their counterparts at the state level and the local level as well.

So um that's sort of how it's arranged, but um that's all within the National Park Service, and then there's a um the ACHP, so like a um sort of organization that's a tangential like federal organization that works with um the federal government uh historic preservation programs also.

And then at each of those levels, there's also nonprofits that work with um preservation programs.

So we've got statewide nonprofits, national nonprofits, and then you'll have your local community um organizations that you work with.

We have um Colorado Preservation Inc., they're the ones that run the Saving Places conference, um, and then Colorado Historical Foundation is a statewide nonprofit.

And then at the federal level, there's the National Trust for Historic Preservation.

That's a uh our nationwide preservation advocate.

Um, so all of that uh being said, um uh yeah, we've got those grant opportunities.

So the CLG grants, um, state historical fund grants, park service grants, um, the National Trust uh for historic preservation also offers grants.

Um depending on the projects you're looking at, um there's different opportunities for survey funding in there if you're wanting to follow on from your survey plan.

But definitely CLG grants are available to you guys for those survey projects as well as state historical fund grants.

Yeah.

And then the tax credits are the other big incentive for our property owners.

So any questions about all of that.

Yeah.

You when you say tax credits, that means you get dollar for doll.

Yes.

It's not it's not a deduction.

Right.

So yes, a tax credit is a dollar for dollar credit on your state income tax.

But once it's refundable, then it will just get be a check back to you, which yeah, I'm we're really excited.

We think it'll um expand the residential program quite a bit.

Do you do you think the the budget cutting is going to affect your dial amount?

So I guess it I don't know um how widely known this is, but we don't actually have a cap on the how much we can give out for state residential tax credits.

So maybe it would in the future if it was um if it you know blew up massively.

Um but right now there is no budget per se on that.

Um then for the state commercial tax credits, they actually just expanded our pool um for those by five million dollars a year, which um it's like a third more than what it was before.

So um, yeah, I think we're in fairly good shape currently, but yeah, the state budget situation is a little tenuous.

So it's it's a little unpredictable right now.

Now, did you say that the residential credit tech credit has in has been increased?

So percentage wise.

Um for the residential tax credits, is it just a 20% credit?

So it's actually gone down because we don't have the like there used to be a disaster bonus and the whole state was under a COVID like declared disaster.

Um that doesn't necessarily affect historic preservation.

Anyway, they got rid of the disaster bonus, so now it's just 20% for um urban um residences.

Okay.

Any other questions?

And then come back.

Yeah.

Uh do you get state and federal?

So if you have a commercial property, um, you can layer the state and federal tax credits as long as it's an income producing property, so that and you're on the national register.

So um the federal credit is 20%, and the state credit would be it's got that like tiered um 25% and 20% credit, but you could potentially get up to 45%.

So you could get it 45%.

Yeah, if you're on the national register.

You get me listed on a national list.

Yes.

And that's for residences as well as no, just interest producing properties.

Yeah.

Income producing.

Is there some kind of stipulation on the whether you own it or don't own it?

Uh would you have to be the owner of the property?

So you have to be the owner um or have a long-term lease, which is I think 39 years, um, which is pretty long uh for a lease.

Yeah.

But you would have to have some kind of ownership.

Yes.

Right.

Yeah, or yeah, owner, you have to own it yourself or have a long-term lease.

But um given that, um, are there any potential training topics that you would um want to cover if I come back or with a colleague from History Colorado.

We could go into any of those more in depth or um, you know, give examples and things like that.

Well, you then observing us for a while.

What do you think we need?

Well, that's very hard to say.

But um, you know, I think that uh I haven't you know read the survey plan or anything, but I think that following along with a um good sort of pace on continued projects with that and getting momentum is really good and trying to get um like neighborhoods involved when you do the survey in each area.

Um yeah, trying to get like the public excited about their um their town or their neighborhood's history.

Um, and there's different ways to do that um and sort of engage with the public.

Like um, for example, we've got uh CLGs that do like uh when they do a survey project, they'll have like an open mic night for residents to talk about you know the history of their um family or the um history of the neighborhood that they're in.

survey in each area um and yeah trying to get like the public excited about their um their town or their neighborhood's history um and there's different ways to do that um and sort of engage with the public like um for example we've got uh clgs that do like uh when they do a survey project they'll have like an open mic night for residents to talk about you know the history of their um family or the um history of the neighborhood that they're in um you can sort of piggyback on other events that are going on and have like mapping um boards you know if there's like a farmer's market or something in a neighborhood or other events that are going on um so i think that just making people excited about their their own neighborhood and being able to you know be part of the wider history of colorado springs um and building up momentum that way is probably what i would recommend how many clgs are in colorado there's 68 currently you know oh go ahead this is not yeah oh i was this for say following up it's pretty much what you said but following up on um what we might want training in we could go back to this historic resource survey plan to those suggested action items at the end one of which was outreach and education yeah but we could look at those other suggested action items and see if there are any of those that we would like specific training on yeah that'd be great yeah I thought that was my idea is um similar yep I was just I was thinking about this only because we got an email from Lindsay this afternoon about the education outreach grants and she had provided in that email a list of I don't know there was 20 some odd counties and municipalities throughout the state that have done or are doing outreach education and I thought it'd be interesting if we could kind of get a sample of all right what did they do why why did they do it um how did that benefit you know the board the community is it related to historic preservation yeah um and I thought maybe that might help all of us because you know one I think one of the areas I feel like we all struggle with is that in our purpose it says that we're supposed to you know educate the community on historic you know preservation or you know provide outreach it's like well what you know I think it'd be helpful to kind of maybe have something like that so we kind of wrestle with it um and know something about what others are doing and probably also hear that many of them to me probably struggle the same way that we do is that you know they're just they don't have like a historic preservation budget that really lets them do that so they have to pursue these kind of other avenues so I thought it might help with a little creativity yeah definitely and I think like you do have a challenging environment because it's such a big you know sprawling city um it's not like it's easy to have a personal like connection with each neighborhood so um yeah I think we're not like um Trinidad or tell you right we just don't have the place we have right like you know like Una Vista did a survey project and then they personally handed out the survey forms to all the property owners afterwards that it seems like that would be pretty difficult um here so yeah finding different ways to engage yeah that would be great yeah but then yeah and I I had mentioned just I I thought the other one just to me is kind of historic preservation board training just because we could get a perspective from Lindsay because she works with all of the other boards and commissions throughout the state you know all right what what are all of them doing you know to make sure that they you know um you know are you just good public hearing or public meeting practices um and maybe just some interesting twists that that others may have during their meetings like for I don't know public involvement or they hold them in and communicating with their governments their councils or whatever yeah those kinds yeah relationship with other levels of um council relationships those those kinds of things sure but two other points one is uh we have that fantastic plan that was done that to me looks like it needs it's probably time to update it because that thing is what eight ten years old well it's 2019 in the 2019 yeah yeah so it's okay so it's not that old but we should be taking a look at that too and seeing you know what was pie in the sky and what's realistic somehow setting priorities and putting together some kind of um a work plan and then also we have some guests and I wonder if they would introduce themselves and if they have any questions.

Uh I thought this was great conversation and an excellent overview.

And the only thought that came to my mind is if training on the respective grants would be useful to the community.

I don't know if that would be useful.

Yeah.

For maybe more for awareness.

Right.

And we might have um individuals that could support the city in writing things.

Right.

Right.

That would probably be useful.

Yeah.

And you could tie with that.

Just um how um designation and grants could support you know, long-term sustainability maintenance of uh historic buildings.

Like, for example, I think we have a lot of people with historic buildings that tend to stay away or stray away from historic preservation because everyone has this perception that it's you know gonna put the it's gonna put the handcuffs on them.

Rather, you know, this is only my opinion that it probably opens the door to lots of uh lots of pretty good incentives.

So I mean to tie those two things to you know together.

Yeah, because you could walk around the city and look at all kinds of properties and supply.

Hasn't this person really ever thought about a local or state or federal designation instead of just putting out the piggy bank and saying I'm looking for donations to fix my signing?

So I'm yeah, thank you.

Because yeah, especially in this town, often there is rhetoric about personal, you know, property rights.

And so some way to help educate about how this is property rights, it's not restricting restricts you in some ways, but it opens things up.

Right.

Yeah, I make make it a couple.

So I really appreciate that.

We've we've we've tried, um, we've reached out to the Pikes Peak Housing Network, you know, Jill Gabler and Silver Key and the Um Housing Builders Association to ensure that those respective areas are aware of historic preservation and the tax credit benefit, especially with what's happening in 2027 with the cash.

Um, you know, thinking that it would just help people stay in place, for example, right?

Um, and and what I'm finding in that reach out is you know, push back where people think it's too complicated to do the preservation work.

But um, I really think the community could benefit from that, as you very nicely said, and as Bill has repeatedly said, Yeah, um, I don't know, we just um yeah, definitely.

I know that that could be part of the um outreach and engagement materials that you consider.

So um, you know, some local governments have like realtor like pamphlets that they give out to people so you have it in writing, um, and they can refer back to that when they're so that historic preservation doesn't seem like an extra burden, but it's more of an opportunity for people to be able to um have incentives to maintain their properties.

Um this might be off the subject, but uh with the question mid-century becoming almost into the 70s.

Have you noticed an increase in people who don't know or really or not aware that they might be in the mid-century neighborhood?

Yeah, well, definitely, and then you know, the state register is only a 30-year uh cutoff too.

So we're looking at you know, 1995 as uh the mark, which is a little crazy to think about, but yeah, I think that there are you know the national register of the 50-year mark, it's can be hard for people to sort of conceptualize that properties from the 1970s could be considered um you know eligible for the national register.

Um and yeah, I think there is pushback on that sometimes where it's like how is this type of architecture you know included?

But of course that all tells the story of development around the that was a major part of the development.

Don't we have 18 neighborhoods according to the Ron that are mid-century?

Oh, not listed email with the total list is, but we have it was quite a few uh neighborhoods that are that have that developed during the mid-century era.

Yeah, that could be an outreach kind of thing, couldn't it?

Could be, yeah.

Yeah, and you know that that was a huge boom time for Colorado General.

It was also here because of the military.

That was the time of the Levitt brothers, and yeah.

Who else?

Well, who are some of the other bills?

You guys, you guys are I'm still talking about 1950s.

Yeah, you want it you're asking for the architect.

Yeah, no, who's writing Grim?

Yes.

Um Weber, Weber, and uh Ruthenberg.

Ruthenberg, and then that was uh the development in Washington, DC.

What was that?

The town to count.

Anyway, that's that's well anyway.

Uh but I think you're uh I'm sure there's a at least 18 neighborhoods, and that might be you know, doing it by era might be, you know, like she said it's like a or said it's like a layer cake, and you know, so let's take maybe we could take a look at that here be because and here's even though I live in a mid-mod home, the issue is that a lot of them are have not held up well, you know, from a structural standpoint, and they should be prime for um being renovated, and you know, if we could anybody that's interested in getting that, you know, getting that refund would be great.

And also it would give us an opportunity to hit a I guess can I say this class, you know, that middle class that was middle class, right?

Residential, right?

Order the GI Bill and all that kind of stuff.

We could do something with that, couldn't we?

I think so.

All you have to do is watch Redfin.

You can see mid-century after mid-century's house up for sale around there.

If you want to get into historic home, you know, right now you can do it.

I'm sure probably be kind of excited too, I think.

Right.

Did you mention that?

Yeah, that for realtor outreach instead of.

I mean, some realtors um prefer to, I guess, sort of hide if a property is designated.

Um, but uh yeah, I think putting it in emphasizing the incentives and that it's an opportunity.

It could be a plus in the sales deal.

Yeah, this house is a potential mid-century qualification for historic and realtors are always looking for some kind of hook, right?

Yeah, so well, great.

Well, yeah, we can figure out a date and I'll um just make sure I'm looking through your historic COS uh like recommendations as well as the survey planes too.

So yeah, one of our big historic COS recommendations is the is to the historic preservation ordinance to update or actually look at you know, drafting completely new HP ordinance.

So that is a big that is a big ticket item in uh uh historic COS.

But anyhow.

Thanks.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Everyone for thank you very much and we're gonna go.

So I have a question about the minutes.

Uh so will you give her a record?

I mean, you you were hard to hear.

Will you be giving her report so that she can have the information that you presented today in our minutes?

I think it's on the recorded for the meeting.

Okay, uh through the speakers and the microphones.

All right.

So that's how that's how we're a lot of detail there.

Yeah, happy to answer any clarifying questions anytime too.

So don't hesitate to reach out.

Okay, thank you.

Sorry.

I'm sure now unless I'm missing something, we are ready to adjourn.

You're not missing anything.

Thank you.