OPENPUBLICA · PUBLIC MEETING RECORD
Record of Proceedings

Colorado Springs City Council Work Session - October 13, 2025

City CouncilMonday, October 13, 2025
BodyColorado Springs, Colorado
SessionCity Council
DateMonday, October 13, 2025
StatusFILED
Video Record

STREAMING COPY IN PREPARATION — RECORDING AVAILABLE FROM THE ORIGINAL SOURCE

Transcript — Verbatim
0:03

Good morning.

0:05

We're gonna start this City Council of Car Springs Work Session meeting for Monday, October 13th.

0:10

Will the clerk please read?

0:13

Call the roll.

0:14

Don't read the roll.

0:15

Call the councilmember Bailey.

0:19

Here.

0:19

Councilmember Crow Averson.

0:21

Here.

0:21

Councilmember Donaldson.

0:23

Here.

0:23

Councilmember Gold.

0:24

Here.

0:25

Councilmember Hendrum.

0:26

Present.

0:27

Councilmember Williams.

0:29

Here.

0:30

Councilmember Lion Webber.

0:32

Here.

0:33

Councilmember Rainey.

0:34

Here.

0:34

Councilmember Risley.

0:36

Here.

0:37

All nine present.

0:39

Changes to the agenda.

0:40

Do we have any changes to today's agenda?

0:44

Seeing none.

0:45

Regular meeting comments.

0:46

Are there any changes to the regular meeting for tomorrow?

0:51

Seeing none.

0:51

We'll preview previous meeting minutes.

0:53

Will the clerk please read item 4A into the record?

0:57

Review uh City Council Work Session Meeting Minutes, September 22nd, 2025.

1:02

Do we have any changes to these minutes?

1:05

Seeing none, we will move on to um we have no presentations for general information six staff and appointee reports.

1:14

Will the clerk please read item six A into the record?

1:17

Agenda planner review.

1:18

Do we have any comments on the upcoming agenda planner review?

1:23

Seeing none for the record, there are no comments on the agenda of planner review.

1:28

Moving on to item seven.

1:31

Will the clerk please read item 7a into the record?

1:34

A resolution approving the 2025 budget for Pikes Peak Regional Building Department.

1:41

Good morning, Roger.

1:49

Can you turn the green button on?

1:51

There we go.

1:52

There you go.

1:53

Thank you.

1:53

Good morning, Roger Lovell Building Official for Pikes Peak Regional Building Department.

1:57

I do have our director of finance here, Lauren Burris, with us today, in the event any questions come up.

2:05

But thank you, Council, for hearing us today and uh for allowing me to present the budget.

2:11

And I'm proud to present the fiscal year budget for 2026.

2:16

Um the department is a is a very important part of the city of Colorado Springs, and we value the partnership to ensure safe and sustainable development throughout the city.

2:26

Each year we work very hard to develop a budget following for the following year based on projections and specific economic factors.

2:36

Uh just as a reminder, the department is self-funded uh through permit fees, plan check fees, and licensing fees, and this budget does not have a direct impact on the city of Colorado Springs.

2:48

We began the budget process in uh I believe it be we begin.

2:53

We began in July.

2:54

We presented to our advisory board and the building commission as a work session in August, and we received a recommendation for approval from the advisory board on September 11th with an approval by the building commission on the 25th of September.

3:10

Um I I'm gonna give you just a just a brief uh well, maybe I'll just start with a little tidbit.

3:18

We really anticipate 2026 to mirror 2025 in a lot of respects.

3:24

So I'm gonna go through some of the details that we've seen so far throughout 2025 because I think that that will be a reflection on 2026.

3:33

Um do we have oh, here we go.

3:39

Okay, and I apologize.

3:41

I know this says 2024 overview and accomplishments, it should say 2025, but as of July 31st of 2025, we'd issued permits for 1,814 new single family homes, which was a decrease of about 5% over the same time period in 2024.

4:00

The average single family valuation, uh, which is the average valuation that we use for permitting purposes, it doesn't reflect in a direct cost, but it is is the basis that the department uses for for permits.

4:14

Uh the average single valuation was 535,000, which is a decrease of about 4.8 percent over 2024.

4:23

Um let's see, I have it in my notes here because it's very interesting.

4:27

It was also, but that's also a 36% increase over the same time period in 2023.

4:33

So there's been we're still bouncing around a lot in the in the uh coming out of COVID.

4:41

Uh 947 new single family units or multifamily units permitted as of July 31st, which is an increase of 69 percent over 2024, but a decrease of 51 percent over 2023.

4:55

So multifamily is coming back.

5:00

We kind of hit our historical levels of an awful lot of single family homes or multifamily homes in 2021 and 2022.

5:08

So it's bouncing around quite a bit too.

5:11

Roger, we have a question from Councilman Donaldson.

5:14

Yes.

5:14

Yeah, thanks, Madam President.

5:16

Roger, I just want to be sure I understood you right.

5:18

The uh that $535,000 valuation of uh single family homes is 36% above 23.

5:28

36% higher than the average valuation was in 2023.

5:34

Um that's more than 150,000 uh or maybe more than 100,000.

5:43

I mean, I can't do the math in my head, but over 23.

5:47

Yes, and keep in mind that's the average valuation, so that can be skewed uh with some of the higher rent homes.

5:54

If people are choosing to build higher priced homes, then it will drive up that that number.

6:00

Um, but it is interesting that it did come down 4.8 percent over 2023.

6:07

I I guess there's there's also one maybe small thing to consider in there.

6:13

We did change valuation tables in 2023, so that valuation table change can could skew that number.

6:23

Uh huh.

6:23

But if if builders and contractors are giving us the correct valuation, then those valuation tables wouldn't even come into play.

6:31

Uh and this this is totally separate from what uh the assessor does.

6:36

Yes.

6:37

Yeah, yes.

6:38

This is true valuation or what true er.

6:41

It's true is that we can have, I guess.

6:46

Um, aside from tracking sale prices, that's your best.

6:51

That just seems like a huge that is a huge jump, uh, 36%.

6:55

But if that's what it is, that's what it is.

6:57

Thanks.

6:58

It it is, and I didn't go back farther just because of some of the changes in the valuation tables, and those can so that number, that 36% could be skewed a little bit.

7:08

Yeah, that that's a good explanation.

7:10

Thanks.

7:10

Councilman Linewear.

7:12

So I I I caught that number too, and I was trying to digest it.

7:17

But uh the more I think about it back then, we had all those supply chain issues and other factors where material costs just went through the roof.

7:26

I mean, lumber costs really accelerated quite a bit in 2022 and 2023.

7:32

And everyone thought they would come back down, but they really haven't come down much.

7:37

I mean, do we kind of see like material costs still being I mean, don't you think that is really the primary driver?

7:45

I that's a that's a great uh great point.

7:49

Um material costs were high in 2022, they have stayed high.

7:54

There's been there's been some decrease of materials costs, the supply chain shortages have have eased, which is probably helped bring down some costs, but now we're starting to see uh uncertainty around tariffs and and uh some of the supply chain issues related to tariffs.

8:12

I should I should quantify I'm not an economist, I'm an engineer.

8:16

I'm just going off of what I what I see in front of me.

8:19

But well, you you know, uh on all of our mindset is affordable housing, and when we look at five hundred and thirty-five thousand dollars is the average price, we're not talking about affordable housing.

8:31

No, I would agree, and and that is the average.

8:34

So what yeah, no, I understand that's the average over that one thousand eight hundred and fourteen.

8:40

But still, it it leans in on that question, right?

8:44

It's it's staggering.

8:46

Yeah, yes, especially.

8:47

Thank you.

8:52

Okay, moving on.

8:53

Our total construction valuation, which again ties back to that that same valuation number as of July 31st was approximately 2.1 billion, which is a 4.8 percent decrease over 2024, um, and flat when compared to uh 2023.

9:12

Um moving on.

9:14

Approximately 7,000 plans have been submitted for review, a decrease of 7.4 percent over 2024, and approximately 181,000 inspections as of July 31st, which is a decrease about of about 10 percent over 2024.

9:32

Inspections can be highly influenced by hail storms as well, and we haven't had any significant.

9:38

We have had some hail, but we haven't had a significant hail storm in 2025.

9:43

Um as far as some of the uh accomplishments, one of the things that I'm very proud of so far this year is as of July 31st, our revenue was seven percent below what was budgeted or seven percent below what we anticipated, but through uh fiscal management and prioritization of resources, we're able to keep our expenses nine percent under the budget.

10:00

But through fiscal management and prioritization of resources, we're able to keep our expenses 9% under the budget.

10:08

So small net gain, but a net gain for as of July 31st, 2025 of approximately 29,000.

10:17

So I bring that up because the 2025 budget does anticipate a draw from the fund balance of up to $715,000.

10:28

At this point in the year, it doesn't look likely that we will at least reach that maximum, but we're in a very stable place so far this year, and we anticipate similar next year.

10:40

You have a question from Councilman Henjam.

10:43

Thank you, Madam President.

10:44

Good morning.

10:46

In terms of the 9% under budget and looking at the decrease in essentially all activity, have you have you how much of that under budget is related to personnel?

11:01

And did you either hold open positions or have you lost folks or have you uh let anybody go or that great question?

11:10

Um the 2025 budget budgeted 137 full-time positions.

11:16

Uh currently we're right at about 126 full-time positions right now, give or take, potentially one or two.

11:24

Throughout the year, all of these numbers and a whole lot of other data uh we watch very closely.

11:30

Um I could say on a monthly basis, but it's it's actually a lot closer than that.

11:35

We really watch the workload of all our staff, and when a position is vacated, we we really analyze that closely.

11:44

Does this position need to be filled?

11:46

Can we hold it a little while longer?

11:48

And and I think that that's because staff is our single biggest expense.

11:53

Right.

11:53

Um, so yeah, we've been able to stay below just by monitoring workload and and not fill in positions that didn't need to be filled.

12:01

Great.

12:02

Thanks, Roger.

12:04

We've also worked very hard starting in 2023 and continuing on throughout 2025 in digital accessibility.

12:12

And I'm sure all of you are aware of the requirements from the state and federal government to make sure that all of your digital content is accessible.

12:19

And that's that's a it's an overwhelming task when you look at uh the size of the website that we have.

12:25

Uh we were able to complete the website was in substantial compliance with WCAG level two 2.1 level AA, which is the state standard.

12:39

Uh we had that in compliance mid-2024, and in 2025, we completed making the subscription-based side of our website fully accessible.

12:49

So not only does it does it require work on the IT department, it also requires work on the part of all staff, making sure that any documents or letters or things that we that we send out are done so in a uh compliant manner.

13:07

Um here's just a brief slide.

13:11

The 20-year permit and inspection trend, and you can see the the inspections are the highest number there, but you can see a high of approximately 400,000 inspections in 2021, and then it kind of tails off a little bit, and we're starting to come back up.

13:26

Uh probably you know, closer to the 2017-2018 levels, um, maybe 2019.

13:35

Permits have remained fairly steady.

13:37

We do anticipate that we will issue approximately 80,000 permits by the end of the year.

13:47

I'm sorry, yes, 80,000 permits.

13:50

Just a couple of highlights on the 2026 budget.

13:54

No fee increases will maintain the lowest fees in the state of Colorado.

13:58

We have the lowest fees for single family uh housing and second lowest fees, although I think we need to take another look at that with the change that's happened in Pleblo uh on commercial permits.

14:10

In some cases, our fees are more than half or less than half of what they are in some of the jurisdictions to the north.

14:19

The 2026 budget will also continue our licensing rewards program, and this will be the 10th year for the licensing rewards program.

14:27

But what the licensing rewards program does is for contractors who are in good standing with a department and good standing means they've been licensed for at least three years, and at the time of renewal, they don't have any administratively closed license or in administratively closed permits.

14:44

A permit that's administratively closed is a permit that's gone more than six months without any activity.

14:50

So when it comes time to renew uh those contractors can renew at no fee.

14:56

And it's a it's a reward for those contractors.

15:00

It also helps save our staff a significant amount of time, not working to clean up those administratively closed permits when they renew.

15:08

As of July 31st, we've had 1,105 licenses and registrations renewed at no cost.

15:15

So that's approximately that translates into approximately $300,000 in annual savings to our local contractors and uh and registrants.

15:27

This budget does anticipate.

15:30

One of the hardest parts about this budget was it does anticipate up to a 28% increase in the cost of medical benefits.

15:46

I think right now we're around the 11 to 12 percent increase range, with hopefully the ability to bring that down to single digits.

15:57

Um it hasn't been finalized yet, but this budget does anticipate 28% worst case increase.

16:06

This budget also includes 137 full-time positions uh with no increase in staffing, although we do kind of shift those numbers around kind of where they're needed in in certain departments.

16:20

Just a quick look at the summary of revenue and expenses.

16:24

The catch up on my notes here.

16:28

Um the 2026 budget is from the uh revenue standpoint is very similar to um I'm sorry, from a revenue standpoint is very similar to the 2025 budget.

16:42

We we don't anticipate a whole lot of change here.

16:45

Uh total expenses of 22,749,556 dollars, which is a 3% increase overall.

16:55

Uh generally that represents the 28% increase in the cost of benefits, a 1% increase in the employer required para contribution as of July 1st, 2026, and a uh cost of living increase for our staff.

17:14

Our staff is our single biggest to Councilman Henjum's point, our single biggest expense, and they're also our single biggest asset.

17:22

Um we every every two years we conduct a salary study.

17:27

Every other year we conduct a market adjustment, and in order to remain competitive, we've budgeted for up to a 5% cost of living increase.

17:37

That cost of living increase will not exceed 5%, and as we receive more data towards the end of the year, uh we will make a decision as to what that cost of living increase will be.

17:50

Um this budget does anticipate again, worst case scenario, a draw from the fund balance of 1,363,584 dollars.

18:01

You can see in the 2025 budget, the anticipated draw of 715,000.

18:08

It's not likely that we'll hit that.

18:10

Uh, this is a very conservative budget, and we have trimmed a lot to keep our cost down.

18:18

We've really focused on efficiency, and I think it's highly unlikely that we'll get anywhere close to that 1.3 million draw from fund balance, primarily because of the negotiations that are going on with regard to the cost of benefits.

18:34

Any questions so far?

18:38

Um see what else I have.

18:42

This is this is pretty hard to see, but just our our revenue, no substantial changes on revenue overall here.

18:50

Um just minor little adjustments.

18:55

Our our revenue trend is always an interesting graph to watch.

18:58

This is the revenue trend over the last five years, and you can see that 2025 has had some wild ups and downs.

19:07

Um, but generally generally it's falling in line with with previous years.

19:15

Councilman Um Bailey or Rainey does have a question.

19:20

Well, we kind of look alike.

19:24

Uh thank you, Madam President.

19:25

Can you go back to the previous slide?

19:27

Uh just more intrigued.

19:30

Uh June, um, there was a significant spike in uh revenue there for 2022.

19:38

I'm just kind of curious because especially coming out of the throes of COVID, um, what triggered that?

19:47

Oh, June of 2022.

19:49

Great, great question.

19:50

We had a um, that was the code change, correct?

19:54

That was 23.

19:58

Boy.

19:59

Um I'm drawing a blank.

20:00

I that could have been a that could have been a hailstorm.

20:04

Um sometime keep in mind one of the interesting things too from the from the building department is we might get a permit issued for uh one of the bigger ones I remember is the Amazon distribution warehouse.

20:20

So, you know, one of the biggest buildings that we have here in El Paso County, and when that and one of the highest valuation buildings, when that permit's issued, it's a it's a big number.

20:30

Okay, but we have to continue to service that project for uh the life of the project.

20:37

So you pretty much believe that there probably was a massive project or or something during that time frame.

20:43

I'm just trying to align, you know, coming out of the throws of COVID and everything, like what transpired to have that significant in that one specific time frame because everything else uh for 2022 almost looks fairly flat for the most part, except for that one time frame.

21:02

It could be a combination of things, it could be a couple of large projects that hit at the same time and and a hail storm.

21:09

I believe we did have a hail storm in 2022.

21:12

Okay.

21:13

Um but yeah, I'd be more than happy to look into that and get you some more.

21:18

I was just interested.

21:19

Thank you.

21:19

It is an interesting it is, it does stand out.

21:22

Yes.

21:25

Any other questions?

21:29

Um with that, I think that's all I have, unless there are one more councilman lineweber.

21:36

So one of the things that um I hear um uh words of wisdom from Councilman Riz Risley all the time is uh speed to market.

21:46

Um, you know, when um permits and stuff get held up and timing and all that, that costs money.

21:52

Um and you're directly engaged with that.

21:56

Do you do you track that speed to market number?

22:00

Do you do you do you kind of like look at efficiencies on how quickly does a uh request come in and how quickly do you get it out?

22:08

Um is there anything that any tracking that you do that kind of show how how well we're doing over the years, are we do are we we delivering faster on permits or are we delivering slower on permits, you know, because that's kind of the gauge.

22:22

I mean, if we're not if we're slower, if we're slowing down.

22:25

I mean it's like you know, it's like you know, police response, right?

22:30

You know, do you have anything like that?

22:33

Yes, we do we do track the the turnaround time for plans.

22:37

The the best way, and actually if you go to our if you go to the website, which I'd bring up here if I could, but on our website on the very front page, it will show you uh the date that we're re reviewing plans from.

22:51

So you can compare today's date to whatever day uh the plans submitted or are hitting in the construction department or mechanical or plumbing.

23:01

Um we do very closely monitor our plan review turnaround times because our goal is as soon as the plan is submitted to get a review, we're looking at it right away.

23:11

Um we there are a number of different departments depending on the type of project and where it's located that have to review the plan.

23:20

Uh we have limited control.

23:23

We can we can work on the departments that we have.

23:25

Oh, that's perfect perfect.

23:27

Thank you, whoever's doing that.

23:30

If you scroll down, there we go.

23:34

So right there you can see that uh we are reviewing plans in enumeration from the 8th of October, construction from the 9th of October.

23:46

Mechanical, we do have a little bit of backup just because we've had some unplanned uh absences, so we're a little bit delayed there.

23:55

But we do, and this is publicly available, so we do use this to track very closely, and we send communications on every single time a plan status changes directly to the applicant.

24:08

Uh we can't control the amount of time that it takes from the time the plan is approved to when the permit's issued.

24:15

Sometimes sometimes those plans sit because they're waiting on funding or or something to that respect.

24:22

But we do monitor and watch our plan review times very closely.

24:26

Uh and another I guess interesting to statistic.

24:31

Time is money uh with the website, 97% of our inspection requests are made through our website.

24:38

So as far as efficiency goes, that's if we have so far 181,000 inspections so far this year, 90 97% of those requests are made online.

24:50

So we don't have staff that are answering phones in a in a small window in the morning.

24:55

People can schedule their inspections anytime throughout the throughout the day.

25:01

And we also approximately 80% of all plans are submitted online, which also streamlines the process and makes that go faster because it allows for concurrent review of plans.

25:30

And so it's it's kind of nice to kind of like elevate that, you know, how quickly you guys are reviewing on a sense, and the gauge like well, performance turnaround, I think is where I'm really looking for.

25:44

So I guess that's my thought.

25:47

And uh maybe Brian will weigh in a little bit here a little bit.

25:50

Go ahead, Brian.

25:53

Councilman Risley.

25:54

Thank you, Madam President.

25:56

Um yeah, just to piggyback on on what you're talking about.

25:59

Um PPRBD clearly is one of the fastest agencies to work with in the state when it comes to permitting and inspection um processes.

26:10

And you know, I think by comparison, some jurisdictions are running three, four months to obtain a building permit, and some of them only conduct inspections once a week.

26:21

And so when you're talking about trying to get a project, whether it's residential or commercial across the finish line, uh and you have to plan literally months in advance in order to get a building permit.

26:32

Um, that has a huge impact on the uh the overall process, but certainly the economics around it, right?

26:39

If you if you're trying to get a project up and running and it takes months just to get through a permit review, uh to your point, Dave, time is money.

26:48

If you're a business owner and you're sitting waiting for a permit, you are not realizing revenue while you're sitting and waiting, and it's a huge issue.

26:56

So PPRBD should be commended in my uh opinion for um just the way you conduct business and the the rapid speed by which you move projects forward.

27:08

Well, that's what I was trying to get at.

27:09

Is I think you need to acknowledge that you guys do a really good job.

27:13

And so that from what I've heard, but that wasn't in your report to show that like I think that's important to elevate that.

27:23

I appreciate that.

27:24

Um, and thank you, council member.

27:26

Uh I don't I don't like to brag.

27:30

I don't like to brag, but I have heard uh from contractors.

27:35

I have heard from contractors working in some other jurisdictions, primarily to the north, that uh sometimes the plan review process is six to eight months.

27:45

Uh and we work very hard to to deliver well in advance of that, closer to the two to three week range rather than months.

27:55

Well, when you ask us if you can dip into the fund balance, and you're telling us that you're performing at a really high level, it's much easier for us to have confidence to say absolutely, because you guys are doing such a good job.

28:08

That's why I think it's important to highlight that piece.

28:11

If you were like not doing a good job, I would have less of a willingness.

28:18

I appreciate that.

28:19

Thank you.

28:20

Councilman Gold.

28:21

Um, thank you, Madam President.

28:23

Thank you for your presentation.

28:24

I have very easy question.

28:25

Um, may I have your email address, please?

28:29

My email address is Roger R-O-G-E-R at PPRBD dot or g.

28:37

Thank you.

28:39

I think that's it.

28:41

All right.

28:42

Thank you.

28:43

Thank you.

28:44

Is this approved?

28:46

To go on consent.

28:47

Is that okay?

28:49

Consid.

28:50

Yes.

28:51

It looks like you have the thumbs up.

28:55

Moving on to item 7B.

28:56

Will the clerk please read item 7B into the record?

29:01

A resolution approving the city of Colorado Springs approving an amended service plan for peak metropolitan metropolitan districts one, two, and three.

29:13

Good morning.

29:16

Good morning.

29:17

Good morning, council members.

29:19

Uh my name is Drew Fox, City of Colorado Springs, planner two.

29:22

Uh, today we'll be talking about the requested service plan amendment to the peak metro districts numbers one through seven.

29:30

Sorry to interrupt here for a second, but I need to read 7C in because his presentation is gonna cover one through seven and they go together.

29:38

So it's a resolution the city of Colorado Springs approving an amended service plan for peak metropolitan districts four, five, six, and seven.

29:47

Yes, thank you.

29:51

If you go to the next slide, please.

29:53

You're able to advance your slides.

30:00

Oh please note that the Metro Peak Metropolitan Districts are made up of two consolidated service plans, uh, one for districts one through three and one for districts four through seven.

30:12

The service plan amendments are to include uh additional operational services for stormwater maintenance.

30:20

And these are related to supporting current and future development within the peak innovation park.

30:30

The districts are located within the Colorado Springs Airport owned property uh east of Powers Boulevard within council district number four.

30:41

Uh you could see here on this slide the uh district locations within the Colorado Springs Airport property.

30:48

These are all uh districts from the peak uh metropolitan districts number one through seven.

30:59

This will be the third amendment to the consolidated service plan for districts numbers one through three and the first amendment for districts four through seven.

31:08

Uh again, the proposed amendment will be applied to both consolidated service plans.

31:19

Uh the first proposed amendment to the service plan includes language expressing the authority to provide store uh public stormwater maintenance services without an IGA with the city or an intergovernmental agreement.

31:31

The uh second proposed amendment uh to the service plan or revisions the original service plan language to clarify the district's ability to acquire interests in land for necessary public improvements, and the final proposed amendment is to exhibit D to include the stormwater maintenance uh operational service uh for the districts to be provided by the districts.

31:58

Uh the supporting materials for this amendment include the current consolidated service plans, the amendment, the amended service plans, the limited service plan amendments, and a proposed or a uh project statement.

32:14

Uh this item would be included on the October 28th regular meeting uh city council agenda for final approval.

32:23

And if you have any questions.

32:29

I don't see any.

32:30

Oh, Councilman Donaldson.

32:33

Um, thank you for the presentation, Drew.

32:38

Is uh is anyone from the airport here today?

32:42

Patrick Bowen is here today.

32:44

Okay.

32:45

Were you here for this for this item?

32:48

Oh okay.

32:49

Um the airport, uh, the uh peak innovation park, they support these these changes.

32:55

Okay, that was my question.

32:57

Thanks.

33:01

Consent.

33:03

Can I have thumbs up for the consent?

33:06

Got it.

33:08

We'll be on consent.

33:09

Thank you.

33:10

Moving on to 7D, will the clerk please write I read item 7D into the record.

33:17

Good morning, Allison.

33:19

So I'm gonna I'm assuming read D and E together.

33:22

Yes.

33:23

So D is a resolution resolution of the City of Colorado Springs approving an amended service plan of the Hancock Metropolitan District number one and two, generally located west of the future intersection of Chilton Road and Hancock Expressway.

33:38

And 7E, a resolution of the City of Colorado Springs approving inclusion of certain property into the boundary of the Hancock Metropolitan Districts number one and two.

33:46

Okay.

33:47

Good morning.

33:48

Um, for the record, Alison Stocker, senior planning with the land use review division.

33:52

So our next item today is going to discuss a minor service plan amendment to the Hancock Metropolitan Districts numbers one and two, and an inclusion of property request for the same district.

34:04

So in summary, these are just some really really minor language changes and a request to include seven acres to the property that was not previously contemplated.

34:14

The location of this district is just northwest of the future Hancock uh expressway realignment.

34:21

It's located in council district number four.

34:24

For a little extra context, because this is kind of an interesting little corner of the city.

34:29

The yellow outline is the requested parcel for inclusion.

34:33

So that's the seven-acre parcel.

34:35

The red shaded area is the existing Hancock district.

34:39

You can kind of see where one and two are respectively.

34:43

And then that blue line, which is also kind of hard to see, is the Hancock Commons URA, so the urban renewal district, which happens to um meet the same boundaries as the existing district.

34:55

So as you can see, the existing Hancock Expressway does bisect the existing district.

35:03

In the future, it is planned to go and reconnect with Hancock Expressway at Shelton.

35:09

So in theory, you know, in a couple years, hopefully that will be there and it'll allow further development to occur on those properties.

35:17

The yellow outline, the inclusion parcel does have an approved development plan in Platte, which would support the development of 69 single family detached homes.

35:26

That was approved about a month ago.

35:28

And there is an approved concept plan for multifamily on the existing metropolitan district property.

35:47

So for a little background on the district itself, it was created in 2023.

35:52

There is a limit of 50 mills for debt service, 20 for operation and maintenance when it's residential, 10 for commercial.

36:01

Since the property is well, since the existing district is in a PUD, it would allow for some amount of commercial.

36:10

As of right now, I don't believe that that was contemplated in the concept plan, but um just in case that ever does change, they have the uh bin uption for commercial.

36:21

Um there was six million dollars estimated in public improvements needed.

36:26

Some of that has to do with um the overlap with the URA and the realignment of Hancock Parkway or expressway.

36:36

So speaking a little bit more to the actual amendment, there are three sections that are getting changed.

36:42

Um there are no other sections that are being impacted by the service plan amendment.

36:47

This includes VA12, which just reaffirms that council has the authority to be consulted on when it comes to debt issuances, um, which is more or less what the language previously said, but it just kind of helps reaffirm council's position as a consulting body on those debt issuances.

37:05

VF does expand the eligible bondholders to what the state has.

37:12

So basically it just expands the types of institutions who can issue debt for these metro districts to include accredited investors, so certain types of institutions and institutional investors can now uh work with these metro districts to issue debt.

37:31

And then finally, VGI, which is for maximum debt mill levies.

37:36

This is to reflect some statutory changes that were done at the state level.

37:42

Before it used to be a constitutional amendment that would allow the debt mill levies to change, and now that is completed through a legislative process.

37:51

Um it comes to the inclusion.

37:54

This is a seven-acre property.

37:56

If approved, this would bring the district to 27 acres in total.

38:00

Since there was no future inclusion area map with the district when it was originally approved, they did need to come back through with the formal inclusion request to consider this property be included in the district.

38:13

Um as I said before, this already has approved a time and sorry, I'm tired this morning, approved entitlements for the site.

38:21

So we already kind of have an idea of what's going to be going there.

38:24

Um, and due to scales of economy and consolidation of work for the Hancock Expressway Parkway, um, this inclusion is hoped to help make debt issuances and make the work a little easier since cost recovery is required for both of those properties.

38:43

Um, and I know I mentioned the UR, but the URA previously, there um are no impacts to the URA with either the inclusion or the service plan amendment.

38:52

Um Kevin and I both talked to Jariah Walker, and there was no conflicts or um needed kind of um collaboration on that front.

39:04

So with your packet, you would have seen the petitioner and developer cover memos kind of detailing the request, vicinity maps, the resolutions that would be approved potentially by council, the current service plan, the clean and red line proposed amendment to the service plan, as well as a bunch of inclusion specific documents such as the petition, um, the inclusion parcels, legal description, um, and a couple other documents.

39:33

And this would also be going on 1028 for um final approval.

39:39

So you have a question from Councilman Rainey.

39:43

Thank you, Madam President.

39:44

Uh question for you, or maybe even Kevin can answer this.

39:48

So on September 9th, there was a letter that came in from the WBA local government law uh firm.

40:00

And one of the statements within that letter stated that the provisions of this particular service plan appears to be incompatible with the intent of the service plan.

40:09

My question is how did that become compatible?

40:13

And I'm gonna go back to slide six.

40:16

The things that were listed on slide six, were those the actions taken to I guess meet the intent of what that letter is requesting?

40:25

That's correct.

40:25

Yes.

40:26

So all of these three uh changes are what we're doing to kind of correct the service plan.

40:32

Um these are changes that Kevin and I have both noted that are things we're hoping to improve here in the coming months.

40:39

We're hoping to potentially um bring forward a new model service plan that will kind of bring um our current city policy up to date with the state's um more recent changes that they've made.

40:52

So um this is kind of a more proactive forward thinking amendment, um, knowing that there are some other changes that the district is hoping to take place in the future.

41:02

Okay.

41:02

Is was there a response back to this organization?

41:06

I guess letting them know that now things meet the intent of the service plan.

41:11

I didn't see that in a packet, that's why I'm asking.

41:15

What is this one by a transfer?

41:19

So this is the the cover memo that they provided to us.

41:22

So um through the service plan amendment we were talking about today, these things would all um be integrated into their amended service plan.

41:32

So city council would be the ones to say, yes, we do agree to these things that would in theory fix the issue that the issues identified.

41:40

Got it.

41:41

Thank you.

41:42

Councilman Lineweber.

41:45

Yeah, my question was really more um uh about yeah, I've I've driven down there and it is a little haphazard the way the expressway kind of like doesn't connect.

41:58

And um, and so um will so the diagonal that is there now, so that's gonna be abandoned is the idea, or um, or what's the I mean it seems like it would be appropriate if it was abandoned.

42:14

I don't know too much on that project just because it's not exactly um, you know, something I touch in my day-to-day.

42:22

My understanding is that it would be, I think, vacated and then reconnected to meet Shelton.

42:29

Yeah.

42:30

And it would become like a normal street block.

42:33

Exactly.

42:34

Yeah.

42:34

So I think it's kind of more of a correction.

42:36

Um that is just kind of being incrementally worked on.

42:40

Um these properties are forward thinking in this realignment occurring, and they're planning their development accordingly.

42:48

Okay, and obviously you're you're speaking to traffic and working on the process.

42:52

Oh, of course.

42:53

Yes.

42:53

So the development plan for the inclusion property specifically, there was a lot of I happen to be the approving case planner on that.

43:01

Um, and there was a lot of collaboration between myself, uh, traffic, the URA, um, and other different reviewing agencies.

43:10

Yeah, I I've driven this a couple of times, and it's it is a little bit like you cut you kind of get a little bit lost down in there because it they the roads don't all seem to kind of make sense unlike how they got laid out.

43:22

But thank you.

43:25

That is true.

43:26

I don't see any other questions.

43:27

Okay, great.

43:28

Thank you.

43:31

Yep.

43:31

Consent.

43:32

Is everybody fine with consent?

43:34

Kimberly, Consider District.

43:36

Okay, yes, it will be on consent.

43:37

Thank you.

43:39

Moving on to item F 7F, will the clerk please read item 7F into the record record?

43:47

A resolution of the city council of the city of Colorado Springs, Colorado rescinding resolution number 183-24 and establishing fees and charges associated with the building permit applications for the development review enterprise.

44:00

Good morning, Dan.

44:01

Good morning, uh city councillors, Dan Sexton, uh planning manager for the city's planning department.

44:07

I have a pleasure here to present to you as an annual effort, uh, the development review enterprise uh in kind of coordination with industry has has kind of charged itself with looking at annually an audit of our fee schedule uh alongside our finances, which you guys were all presented as part of your budget package for the enterprise.

44:30

Um this year we're a little more on time of it uh in the sense of we're presenting this uh adjustment to the fee schedule before you actually make your budget decision.

44:40

So you're seeing the full picture of what we anticipate.

44:43

Um so again, we're looking at just the development review enterprise fee schedule, and this is only the planning side of that enterprise.

44:51

It does not include fire construction services.

44:54

Uh their fees are adopted through a different mechanism through an administrative resolution.

45:00

Okay.

45:01

Um similar to last year's methodology, uh, we're looking at uh a cost of service or three tiers uh for kind of determining what is the right uh sizing of our fee schedule.

45:15

Uh, we're looking at that cost of services in the sense of how many staff personnel we need to be able to complete the necessary reviews uh that we are provided through Pikes Peak Regional Buildings administration of building permits within the city limits, um, the various projects that are required to have inspections, uh, those include our kind of hillside uh residential or commercial developments, and then any other kind of commercial or industrial development throughout the city, uh, as well as the DRE's administration of both the signed permit and hillside programs and the administration of financial assurances through that permitting process.

45:54

Um capacity analysis, as I kind of mentioned before, kind of builds on that cost of service component where we're looking at constantly as positions are turning over or as uh permit levels or uh budget considerations come before us, right sizing our staffing.

46:13

Uh just to note from last year's uh budget, or I should say this year's budget, which we had scoped uh 11 positions within uh the development review enterprise strategically due to three promotions uh from that uh of members of that group.

46:30

Uh we've actually held open and then reclassed a number of positions, which actually reduced our number of force uh for the enterprise by two positions.

46:39

So we're down to nine positions, uh, but we're still able to meet the uh expected uh performance time time frames that industry has kind of coordinated with us.

46:50

Um, those would be most notably as a three-day turnaround in all plan reviews and a five-day turnaround in all inspections uh that are presented to us.

47:00

Uh and then level of service programming, um, constant looking at uh looking at ways in which we can benchmark our performance.

47:08

Um I don't have it as part of the presentation or slide necessarily as Roger did with his kind of budgetary numbers.

47:16

Uh but what we have been seeing similar to regional building is a downward trend in permitting through Pikes Peak Regional Building.

47:24

As a result, our revenue costs have our revenue has has decreased slightly compared to last year and years prior.

47:31

Um but we're constantly looking at ways that we can continue to support uh the customers that we have in the construction industry.

47:39

Um so we have our development review uh sorry, the development review enterprise advisory committee.

47:47

It's a mouthful of a name.

47:48

Um it's not it previously was a body that this body or that city council appointed, it now got shifted under as a mayoral appointment uh in 2024.

47:58

Um but that's made up of uh industry representatives both on the design side and construction side that support kind of the decision making of the enterprise as a whole.

48:08

Um, I have a question from Councilman Hincham.

48:11

Yes.

48:12

Uh, thank you, Madam President.

48:13

Yeah, so um Dan, can you help uh help me understand why Hillside and Sign in particular are called out?

48:22

I mean, there's so many different overlays we have.

48:24

There must be some additional um operational execution that that is required in those areas.

48:32

But can you just give a little more explanation to it?

48:36

Yeah, so both of those programs, why they're highlighted for potential increases this year uh or this coming year are because those two uh permitting types uh specifically do require inspections.

48:49

Uh so hillside residential uh or commercial development requires a three-tier inspection by our staff.

48:55

So they're going out uh just before uh foundations are put in the ground.

49:00

They're doing a pre-framing inspection and then they're doing a final inspection to make sure that all the uh specific elements or aspects of the hillside site plan are complied with through the continuum of construction.

49:13

Uh similarly on the sign side is our sign uh staff uh do administer inspections uh both at prior to permitting and prior to final closeout of that sign itself.

49:28

So it's just the cost of having you know additional vehicles, insurance, um so forth, to send those people out in the field to do those inspections.

49:37

Okay, thanks.

49:38

Okay.

49:39

Um shift forward.

49:44

Doesn't want to.

49:45

There we go.

49:46

Okay.

49:46

So uh across the board, when you average out the the various types, and again, this is very surgical or tactical in the proposed increases for fees uh to get at as uh councilmember hengem pointed out, um, certain permit types that do require additional levels of service from our staff.

50:05

Um but we're looking at that average increase across the board of about 16%.

50:09

Uh the estimated revenue impacts, uh, these are numbers that should be uh uh reflected in your budget packet for the enterprise, um, where we looked at our kind of estimated revenue collection for 2025.

50:23

Uh granted we still have a couple months, but we're we're hitting close to that benchmark of just over um what is it just over uh 1.3 million.

50:33

Um we have a proposed estimate.

50:36

Uh I think we're a little bit more uh optimistic in our revenue capturing for 2026 because we do have a number of big projects that are teeing up from a permitting perspective that we anticipate will will increase some of those revenue numbers.

50:52

Um with these adjustments to our our fees, we'll increase some additional revenue there.

50:59

Um not only is this revenue I should note uh on this slide is intended to uh provide the to kind of balance our budget in terms of revenue, but it does also an opportunity from a staff perspective and industry has supported it to start replenishing the reserve fund that the development review enterprise has.

51:17

Uh we have consistently drawn from that reserve over the last five years.

51:22

Um that reserve fund, I think, based on uh spring numbers that we received since we only receive that uh allocation annually is right around a two million dollar uh benchmark.

51:34

It might be give or take uh some numbers there.

51:38

Um, but we saw it as an opportunity with this uh with the kind of uh favorable trending of revenue to look at an incremental uh supplementing of that reserve fund uh this uh coming fiscal cycle in 26.

51:54

Um and again, as noted, we really kind of focused on the limited fee types uh for adjustment, which are those lesser residential permit types, which do require additional staff time at the counter to support the permitting uh and issuing of site plans for them, and then on the hillside residential and signed permits, the additional inspection.

52:11

So, Dan, is that reserve drawdown?

52:13

Is that for these additional staff?

52:15

Is it going into salaries?

52:16

Is that what you said?

52:18

So prior year drawdowns were actually uh being taken to support the fire construction services side, which had not been as proactive in adjusting its fee.

52:29

So for the DRE, fire construction services and planning, all the revenue goes into one bucket.

52:34

Um, so in a sense, uh planning side has been supporting fire construction services for about the last five years in terms of revenue that have been coming in.

52:44

We've worked very closely with uh the manager for that work group to right size their fees.

52:49

They will be bringing a separate fee package uh as part of their um wild and urban interface code uh for your kind of consideration there.

52:58

But um for this year, the number that we're looking at, it's not a negative, it would be uh a supplementing of that reserve fund for 2026.

53:07

That answered your question there.

53:09

Not so much okay.

53:16

So with that, um again, there's not uh a very clear parameter for how we establish these fees uh in code.

53:23

It's really kind of at the discretion of city council uh for setting the fees uh for the planning department, and that includes the development review enterprise.

53:31

But as an enterprise, we're intended to or tasked with balancing our budget from a cost perspective.

53:36

So I have a question from Councilman Donaldson.

53:39

Yeah, thanks.

53:39

Thanks, Madam President.

53:41

Um isn't it correct though that you do not charge more in fees than the cost to recover the services we provide?

53:52

Yes.

53:53

Okay, good.

53:54

And I think it's real important for citizens to hear that.

53:57

Uh fees aren't raised to make money so we can use it somewhere else.

54:02

They're they're raised to cover the costs of providing those inspections of providing that service, nothing else.

54:10

Is that that is correct with the caveat that there is a component of the enterprise that is authorized to have a reserve fund to anticipate those one-time unanticipated expenditures, a vehicle gets in an accident, and we have to spend 60 to 70,000 to buy a vehicle that we didn't or previously budget for.

54:29

And I know it was just up there, but what is the reserve fund now?

54:33

Um let me see.

54:36

And again, this would be spring of 2025 in terms of the numbers.

54:43

Um, not there.

54:51

Just bear with me one second.

54:53

Sure.

55:08

Okay.

55:08

So based on our uh recent uh information shared with council, um, we had a reserve fund.

55:25

I apologize here.

55:26

Too many folders to click through.

55:36

We had is it around three million?

55:43

Thank you, Kevin.

55:45

So as as Kevin uh Kevin Walker, planning department director noted, we are at about three million.

55:52

Yes, it is.

55:54

Uh and granted, just be aware that that's a year behind.

56:00

Meaning that it'll it'll it's actually less than that now.

56:04

Correct.

56:04

Correct.

56:05

So as I said, we only get from finance a breakdown of that reserve fund once a year.

56:10

Uh that's usually after the city has closed its books.

56:13

Okay.

56:14

Um, but it is for the prior year.

56:16

Okay.

56:16

My only thought is if the fire side, what's the official name for that?

56:20

Fire construction services.

56:22

Which is basically inspections for homes and hillside overlays, things like that.

56:27

Is that what that is?

56:27

Um sprinkler systems, you name it.

56:29

I mean, they're inspection of all that.

56:31

But it's inspections.

56:32

Correct.

56:32

If they're gonna correct their fees to balance out so that they're not a drain on the reserve fund, and you're correcting or increasing your fees, uh I would just want to keep an eye on that reserve fund, how fast it's gonna grow because three million seems what's the annual budget for this enterprise.

56:53

So the annual budget is just uh shy of one and a half million.

56:57

So you have two years for the work for the work side for the planning side for the total.

57:02

Yeah, for the total um we're just over uh three and a half million.

57:08

Okay, that seems like a pretty healthy reserve fund if you're at two.

57:13

Oh, for the reserve side it's three, so it's one year essentially you have in reserve.

57:17

Correct.

57:19

Okay, uh you know, I don't know if anyone else up here feels that's a pretty healthy reserve, but compared to our city, which is what is it?

57:29

Three months, uh that's a pretty healthy reserve.

57:34

So I'm inclined to support this.

57:37

We you know, we just don't want to see the reserve fund grow, grow, grow, grow.

57:41

Uh you know, why why are we growing it if they're you mentioned vehicles?

57:47

Three million can buy a couple of pickup trucks.

57:51

But go ahead, Kevin.

57:52

Yeah, Kevin Walker, uh planning director.

57:55

Um, so the the reserve fund is now below one year.

57:59

Uh it was at times almost six million.

58:02

Um, and uh and so it's been dropping precipitously in the last three to four years.

58:09

Um so what we're trying to do now is just to come up with a balance between what this year's revenues and these years expenses are.

58:18

Um, and then the next question will be what is the right number for the balance.

58:23

And that was gonna be my question is what is your target for the reserve fund?

58:27

Our our uh uh design review uh enterprise uh accountability committee is gonna be taking that up over the next year and working with city finance to try and come up with the right number for that.

58:38

But it has been substantially higher, and the concern was that we were draining off at uh much quicker than what we really needed well than what what we were bringing back in.

58:50

And so now we're at balance, and so the the next question will be what's the right number?

58:56

Okay, I'm glad you're looking at that.

58:58

I think that's the right thing to do, is determine that.

59:00

Thanks.

59:01

Councilman Hincham.

59:02

Uh yeah, thank you.

59:03

Actually, uh, you really uh council member Donaldson just really asked my questions, but I'm I'm glad to hear you'll be reviewing that with that committee, and maybe you can just report that back to city council once that will be sometime this in the coming year, right?

59:17

And before we hear this at the budget again, it would be nice if we could just get an update, either by email or memo or something.

59:24

That'd be great.

59:25

Thank you.

59:25

And can we also see where that was drained down to and where it went specifically?

59:30

The six million that's been quickly over the years being drained down, so you can pull it back up.

59:34

Where did that go specifically?

59:36

Where did those expenditures where did that revenue get spent?

59:38

Certainly we can work on that.

59:39

Thank you.

59:41

I don't see any other questions, but I'm not comfortable putting this on consent.

59:45

Okay.

59:48

Thank you.

59:54

Well, the moving on to 7G, right?

59:56

7G through 7X.

1:00:00

Um, will the clerk please read items 7G through 7x into the record.

1:00:05

Items 7G through 7x are the 2026 operating plans and budgets for our business improvement districts.

1:00:18

All right.

1:00:22

All right, we're on to the good stuff.

1:00:24

So we're gonna be talking about the 2026 business improvement districts.

1:00:28

This is our annual reporting that is required by state statute that happens every October, and this will cover 18 operating plans and budgets.

1:00:38

Um there are a couple that you've received in LegisDAR that have since had some minor changes to them.

1:00:43

So I'll try and make sure to note what changes were made to those operating plans and budgets in their respective memos, but just keep that in mind as we're going through today.

1:00:54

So as I mentioned, um Allison Stocker, senior planner for the record.

1:01:00

Umnual approvals are required by resolution per title 31 of the Colorado revised statutes.

1:01:08

There are 18 bids here in the city that kind of are all over the different sections of our city.

1:01:14

Our model service or I'm sorry, model annual report, which all of the uh bids follow, uh, was approved in 2022 by council.

1:01:23

So all of these reports kind of follow the same outline.

1:01:28

Um, all of these will be going for formal approval on the 28th of October.

1:01:33

Um, and if there is any aspect of any of these bids that council would like more detail on at that next hearing, please let me know so I have as much time as possible to kind of get that together.

1:01:46

There are a lot lots of information that uh we have to go over in a pretty short period of time.

1:01:50

So today's just the highlights.

1:01:54

So uh for further information, the downtown development authority that'll be on a separate review track, separate from the bids.

1:02:01

Um we did not find any significant changes made to any of the 18 bids this year.

1:02:07

All of the changes were pretty um either self-explanatory or we were able to get a pretty good explanation on why they were changed.

1:02:15

This year, um, I'm very thankful to all of our bid representatives because each of them were very willing to provide a fact sheet for us.

1:02:22

So this is something new we introduced this year to kind of make it a little easier for both myself and for council review, kind of the high level um big picture changes that were provided in the service plans.

1:02:34

So that is a great resource for you to be able to like go through kind of quickly and see kind of the differences between last year and this year, but then also bid to bid.

1:02:46

So here is a list of all of our bids.

1:02:48

So there'll be 18 here.

1:02:50

Um the ones with an asterisk next to it are the ones that have formal debt issued.

1:02:54

So if there's no asterisks, then they do not hold any debt at the moment.

1:02:59

Um, one thing I kind of did this year to kind of help me conceptualize and understand all of these different bids was I kind of um lumped these into two different kinds of groups, whether they be mostly developed or kind of still in the developing phase.

1:03:13

This kind of helped me with my review to understand why some have maybe more debt or are planning to issue debt, things like that.

1:03:20

So, what I have on the next two slides is kind of my understanding of each bid.

1:03:25

So it's not necessarily how the uh bids self-identify, but in the category of kind of mostly developed, we have Barnes Powers North and South, the Briar Gate Business Center, first in Maine's great uh the Greater Downtown Plan, and the Powers and Woodman Plan.

1:03:42

Um, as you know, these are still districts that are doing things just because they're mostly developed doesn't mean that they're done.

1:03:50

For instance, first of Maine had quite a few debt issuances this year to support some ongoing infill.

1:03:55

So while they are mostly developed and they're mostly built out, it doesn't mean that they're necessarily done improving and maintaining.

1:04:05

With developing districts, we have districts more like Catalyst Campus, Creek Walk, Gold Hill North, all of our inner quest districts, um, park union and Northwest Retail, where you know, we're still seeing those pad sites get filled in.

1:04:20

We're still kind of looking to what kind of improvements might be made.

1:04:27

For this year, we did have some planned debt issuances.

1:04:31

Um, first in Maine, as I just mentioned, had two, and then in 2026, we're anticipating Northwest.

1:04:38

Um, I'm sorry, uh Mark Shuffle and Woodman Retail.

1:04:43

So MW retail is expecting a debt issuance in 2026.

1:04:49

For mill levy changes, most of the districts do have minor mill levy changes year to year.

1:04:55

That's pretty standard.

1:04:56

Um, so you'll see here that most of the uh mill levy changes are less than one point.

1:05:00

So you'll see here that most of the uh mill levy changes are less than one point.

1:05:03

Um for instance, we have um in more interesting changes.

1:05:08

The Barnes Powers South uh dropped their mill levies as well as Catalyst Campus.

1:05:14

Oh, they imposed new debt debt service mills.

1:05:18

Apologies.

1:05:20

Um big one to point out also is the Interquest North district.

1:05:25

Um they dropped their debt service mill levy from 12 to 5.

1:05:31

This is due to the fact that the district is anticipating their PIF uh revenue to grow in the coming years.

1:05:37

So to offset that, they have dropped their debt service mill levy.

1:05:45

Um each of our districts that have public improvement fees are listed here.

1:05:51

Um I did just since um coming in here today got the Gold Hill North um percentages, which is 1.75 for retail and 3.75 for lodging.

1:06:03

But all of these are listed on the service plans and are accounted for in the budgets.

1:06:11

Um for boundary changes this year, we're expecting Creek Walk Marketplace to come in here actually within the next couple weeks for review.

1:06:19

So we're expecting that one here in the next couple weeks to be before council.

1:06:23

Um earlier this year, you would have seen Gold Hill North had that minor exclusion, which was about less than a thousand square feet that was excluded.

1:06:32

Um and then earlier this year we had innerquest north, which was a five-acre inclusion.

1:06:38

Allison, we have a question from Councilman Hinjam.

1:06:40

Thank you, Madam President.

1:06:42

Alison, can you go back a slide, please?

1:06:44

And the very bottom one, the I I'm not I'm actually not familiar with MW retail you referred to as Northwest, I think I'm confused, and also three percent.

1:06:55

Um, could you could just give me some more information?

1:06:58

Yeah, sorry.

1:06:59

Um, so MW retail is Mark Shuffle and Woodman, it's that um southeast corner of that intersection.

1:07:08

Um we had a couple of um amendments, I think earlier this year for that one that we talked about uh quite a bit, trying to figure out the acreage and things like that.

1:07:18

Um for three percent um that's just the the um PIF they're looking to impose as they are increasing kind of the occupancy of the district, that'll probably um it's subject to change as um more revenue comes in.

1:07:37

Okay.

1:07:40

So boundary changes.

1:07:41

Okay.

1:07:42

One big thing um we did see in quite a few of our um bid annual reports this year was a 5.25 property tax waiver.

1:07:52

So at the beginning of this year per state statutes, there was a limit on local government entities.

1:07:59

Their tax revenues cannot increase by more than the property tax limit.

1:08:03

So this imposed a 5.25% limit at the start of this year.

1:08:08

Um the legislation gave the districts basically two options that were built in to the uh statute, and that was either to enact a temporary property tax credit or to temporarily reduce the mill levies imposed to offset that um increased revenue.

1:08:28

Um quite a few of our districts here in town did elect to either go ahead and hold an election in May or are planning to hold an election in November to waive this property tax limit.

1:08:41

So this is something that the board is bringing forward to all of the eligible electors, so the eligible electors being the landowners within the proper within the district, so that is something that is being brought to all of the landowning bodies within those districts to define whether or not they want to waive that limit.

1:09:03

Um similarly, each district has a website, so that can be found on your fact sheets that were provided to you, um, as well as a bunch of other kind of high-level information like assessed valuation changes, whether they were changes to the district boards, um, and a variety of other different pieces of information.

1:09:23

So this will all of the districts will go forward to decision making on October 28th.

1:09:32

If there are any in particular you want to hear more about, or there's specific information from each that you'd like to hear more about, I can definitely do that.

1:09:40

Um otherwise, um, those will all go on that hearing, and we do have limited options for um postponing if needed, but due to the statutory requirements for the timelines of these, we can't delay too much.

1:10:00

So we have another question from Councilman Henjam.

1:10:02

Thank you.

1:10:02

And this is really just a clarification and and sort of for the record, um, and as I've learned over the last four and a half years.

1:10:09

So given that these districts are all um uh essentially quasi-governmental entities and they are elected, you know, board members and so forth, they have the powers of a of essentially a governmental entity.

1:10:22

And so just to make sure I understand this correctly or for the record, that they can choose to waive those tax limits, unlike uh the city of Colorado Springs, where we would have to go to the entire electorate.

1:10:35

This is a smaller body, and they can make that decision within that body.

1:10:40

That is correct.

1:10:40

Yes, thank you.

1:10:43

Looks like that's it.

1:10:44

Um, unless Kevin has something to say.

1:10:48

And is Kevin Walker planning director?

1:10:50

They actually have to take that to a vote of the electors.

1:10:54

Um that's not something their board can do.

1:10:57

So just like City of Colorado Springs, they have the same regulation.

1:11:01

They have to take that to a vote of the electors.

1:11:04

Meaning, meaning all the residents or or entities that live within that district, they have to conduct an election.

1:11:11

All the capital E electors.

1:11:13

So that's there's a definition for that.

1:11:15

Yeah.

1:11:15

You know, there are corporate structures in a lot of BIDs that are not allowed to vote.

1:11:21

Yeah.

1:11:21

Board members have to be registered electors, and so there are limited numbers of electors and BIDs, much different than they are in uh and Kevin.

1:11:30

Can you just describe like what's the process that they like how do they actually conduct that election?

1:11:35

It might depend on the district, but uh, I think it's like any it's like any other election.

1:11:40

They have a call for election, they have uh uh an election, an elected what is it, uh election official?

1:11:47

Uh that doesn't sound like the right name.

1:11:50

But um uh it's but so they hire an elected official, they actually send out ballots and who oversees that the county, the city, the state, who who who oversees that election process?

1:12:02

Uh the state.

1:12:03

The state.

1:12:04

Yeah, if if there's so there's statutory requirements as to how you run an election, they have to follow all of those same the same things that we have to follow only on a much smaller scale, obviously.

1:12:15

Great.

1:12:16

Thank you.

1:12:16

Appreciate it.

1:12:19

Sorry.

1:12:20

Thank you.

1:12:20

Thank you for that explanation.

1:12:22

And I think that is it.

1:12:24

Great, thank you.

1:12:26

Council McDonaldson, there's one more.

1:12:27

This is just a clerical question.

1:12:30

In the in the packet I received, Allison, these uh this convenient uh spreadsheet and stuff weren't in there.

1:12:37

Um can we have it sent to council if it hasn't already been done?

1:12:41

Absolutely, I can get that sent to you, and I'll also make sure it's in the legislature upload for 1028.

1:12:46

Okay, thanks.

1:12:47

Councilman Hingem.

1:12:49

Thanks.

1:12:49

Just one more question.

1:12:50

Um, which of the BIDs have privately placed debt and how um their mill mill levy adjustments uh relate to that?

1:12:57

Are there any plans to refinance any existing privately placed debt?

1:13:02

So uh the um any plans to refinance or acquire new debt should be included in each of the operating plans with privately placed debt or developer held debt.

1:13:14

It's a little tricky to figure out which um bids have that information.

1:13:21

It was not something we were able to accomplish in this very short time frame we had between receiving all of the annual reports on September 30th to today.

1:13:32

Um, but that is something we can look into further.

1:13:34

Um it's just not something that is readily available in the annual report.

1:13:38

It's not readily available, it's not required by the plan.

1:13:42

No, it's not.

1:13:44

Thank you.

1:13:48

Okay, I think I think you're good now.

1:13:50

Thank you.

1:13:51

Could could you send that information if you get it?

1:13:54

Would you mind sending that information?

1:13:56

The uh developer health debt.

1:13:58

I can reach out to all of the representatives and see if that's something that they have readily available, but yeah, unfortunately, it's just not in the operating plan.

1:14:05

Okay, thank you.

1:14:11

That ends um the work session not to include the executive session, so we'll move to council member reports and open discussion before that executive session.

1:14:21

If there's any council members that have any reports this morning, councilman Lineweber.

1:14:30

Yes.

1:14:32

Um, first off, I um was able to attend um the Colorado outdoor leadership summit in Nassau's Park a week ago.

1:14:44

It was great.

1:14:45

We've had um uh several representatives that were there, including the governor and um and some other elected officials really talking about how outdoor recreation is uh booming economy for Colorado.

1:15:00

And um I believe it's around 42 million dollars or something like that.

1:15:06

I know nationally it's 1.2 trillion dollars is what outdoor recreation provides, the economy.

1:15:13

And just to give some context, if you took all the oil and gas industry and all the pharmaceutical industry and combine them, that would be the total of outdoor recreation.

1:15:25

And so it's a real strong economic driver.

1:15:28

There's areas in our state right now that are just exceeding uh fruta is one, it's just blowing up out there in terms of how they really have elevated.

1:15:38

They put in um one trail, which is called the the plunge, just as one trail is delivering.

1:15:47

I'm trying to remember the number exactly.

1:15:49

I don't think I'll get this right, but uh I think it's it's like eighty eighty million dollars the economic impact of one trail.

1:15:58

Um probably just emergency room visits, but no, I'm kind of joking.

1:16:04

There's been a few.

1:16:05

Um but I mean people are lining up to do this kind of thing because of great strategic planning around outdoor recreation.

1:16:15

So it's just um it it it was an overall big conference of talking about how other communities really are um elevateing this and really leveraging tourism in a big way.

1:16:25

So that was a big thing.

1:16:27

Um the other thing I wanted to highlight um today is um we had the uh release of 20 hostages um uh today.

1:16:37

And I felt like we should like celebrate somehow, but I don't really know quite how to do that.

1:16:42

Lynette, I mean what what can we do?

1:16:45

I mean, we had it we had a resolution which supported um that effort.

1:16:50

Um but today we've got the release of 20 hostages.

1:16:55

I mean, uh that's an amazing event.

1:16:57

And I feel like we should like, I don't know, jump around and dance a little bit.

1:17:01

I I I mean it's it's really a pretty cool thing.

1:17:04

And I think it's gonna be a fundamental change in that that whole Arab world deal because a lot of Arab countries actually came together and really helped initiate this.

1:17:16

And um, I I just can't be, I mean, I'm just way excited about it.

1:17:21

And um, I think we should have some kind of recognition for it, but I don't really know what that is technically.

1:17:28

Well, to answer your question, um you can put something together if you want to get together later this week.

1:17:35

That's up to you.

1:17:36

Um and I agree with you.

1:17:38

I couldn't be more elated to see um the ones that survived come home.

1:17:44

So I agree it's a day of celebration.

1:17:46

Absolutely.

1:17:48

That's all I have.

1:17:49

Councilman Donaldson.

1:17:52

Yeah, I'll be uh very brief, madam president.

1:17:55

I just want to recognize the uh the new CSPD officers that were sworn in last week.

1:18:01

Um councilman Rainey and I I were there for for that.

1:18:05

And I always want to thank uh the men and women who are willing to uh put their lives at risk and uh make some sacrifices in their personal life when they're gonna miss lots of events uh with their kids and their families uh serving us.

1:18:20

So thank you to those men and women.

1:18:22

Um there were there were multiple other important events.

1:18:26

Uh uh opening the ribbon cutting at Bentley Commons, where uh our colleague uh councilwoman Gold spoke and uh Councilwoman Henjam and I were there for that.

1:18:37

Uh that's that's an important thing.

1:18:38

I remember voting on that uh years ago.

1:18:41

I don't remember if that was 21 or when we voted to do that.

1:18:45

Um there was an important presentation by UC Health uh last week also uh at their hospital.

1:18:51

Thanks to them for doing that for us.

1:18:53

It it shin a light on the real struggles they're having with uh basically being reimbursed for services they provide.

1:19:01

It's worth remembering that anyone that goes to the ER gets treated, that they may never get paid back, and oftentimes they don't, uh and that goes for people who aren't American citizens.

1:19:11

You show up at the ER, you're getting treated.

1:19:13

That's the law, and they have to do that, and it makes it very hard to uh with the changes in Medicaid and things like that, uh it's hard for them to break even.

1:19:23

So uh that's just a little a little slice of what's happened lately.

1:19:27

Thanks.

1:19:28

Councilman Hingem.

1:19:31

Uh thank you.

1:19:32

Actually, nothing to I there's plenty I could report on for for myself, but I just want to react and thank uh thank you, Dave Lineweber, uh, for um for highlighting the piece on outdoor recreation and the and the impact it has in our state.

1:20:00

And I just I just want to say publicly and affirm I think um as a city of Colorado Springs and with our tourism industry that we we really do need to be looking more strategically at um how we use our uh tourism tax dollars um going forward in the future and um just support support you bringing that forward and uh taking a uh a long-term and um critical look at at how we use those tax dollars to uh support all of the city um and and really elevate the importance of outdoor recreation.

1:20:22

Thanks.

1:20:22

Councilman Rainey.

1:20:25

Thank you, Madam President.

1:20:26

Um, as my colleague uh already mentioned, uh Councilman Donaldson and I were at the CSPD uh graduation, and uh I echo his same uh sentiments there.

1:20:38

It's uh always great to see uh young men and women when they raise their hand to protect and serve.

1:20:45

Uh it actually goes well beyond that because it's them giving up a part of their life and not necessarily knowing every day if they will go home.

1:20:55

Uh and I think sometimes we get very passive about about that.

1:20:59

And it's a little, for me, I can tell you personally, as a former police officer uh in my younger days, uh it's a little frustrating when uh there's a passive mindset when someone potentially may not go home to their loved ones.

1:21:13

So uh when you do see these young uh recruits, uh, you know, thank them.

1:21:18

Thank them for giving up uh their time and uh the time away from their families uh to protect and serve us and give us a great city that we all uh definitely want.

1:21:29

Uh also had the opportunity, and I want to highlight this organization in this event.

1:21:33

Uh had the opportunity to attend fostering hope.

1:21:37

Um, and that uh event is really phenomenal because uh you're talking about individuals who go above and beyond um to extend their lives to those kids who are either coming from a broken home or from uh uh an event where maybe there was violence or alcoholism or drug abuse, and uh now they're all living in homes where they can find a way to thrive and grow in our community.

1:22:10

So uh kudos to that organization and those who lead that organization for just putting a glimmer of hope into our youth.

1:22:19

Um I think that's something very special.

1:22:22

And uh had the opportunity uh to get on the road with public works and get involved in some potholes.

1:22:31

Uh I tell you, uh learned a lot out there.

1:22:34

Holy smokes.

1:22:35

Uh I I tell you what they do is uh quite interesting.

1:22:39

Uh I hope the mayor is looking uh and watching right now because I was not out there in my dress shoes trying to fill potholes, but it's a joke, it's a joke.

1:22:49

Um, but I will tell you, I learned a lot about how you know what's the difference between uh a pothole fill versus a pothole fix.

1:22:57

And then, you know, even with Go uh uh COS when you're putting your information out there for potholes, how that now registers into the actual maintenance log and then a priority list.

1:23:11

So there's a whole lot that uh I learned out there, and I think it was great.

1:23:15

And I do plan on working with staff to highlight that even more uh so we can get uh our residents uh very educated on what it takes to uh for our public work members to get out there and fix those roles.

1:23:29

There's a lot that they have to go through.

1:23:31

There's a lot of holes, a lot of priorities, and uh they're doing a phenomenal job.

1:23:36

And uh definitely recommend everyone look at their calendars.

1:23:39

There is a fire department graduation that's gonna be coming up.

1:23:43

So hopefully uh they have a great turnout and uh same with them, uh a bunch of individuals that are putting their lives on the line so we can all live that uh American dream that we all uh talk about quite often.

1:23:57

So that's all, man.

1:23:59

Councilman Gold.

1:24:01

Thank you, Madam President.

1:24:02

Happy Monday, everybody.

1:24:04

Um I did want to say thank you to my colleagues, Councilman Rodonelson and Hendem for attending the Bentley Commons grand opening or and um for your commitment to affordable housing.

1:24:15

And actually, on that note, I really want to actually thank all of my colleagues for your commitment to affordable housing.

1:24:20

We know that this is one of our city's pressing challenges.

1:24:23

Um that vein, I'd also like to give a big shout out to Cause I Love You for their efforts over the last well, forever, but in particular this last two weeks, I'm really raising awareness and challenging folks to um help our unhoused neighbors.

1:24:38

I have a few notes here, so bear with me.

1:24:40

Um I also want to um to let everyone know that Pikes Peak Bulletin has been acquired by Mr.

1:24:47

Joaquin Mobley, and he will be using um that um as a platform for a lot of South Side and downtown information distribution.

1:25:00

Um Councilmember Lineweber and I just attended the NAMI breakfast a few days ago, I think, and they all run together.

1:25:06

And um Councilmember Lineweber in particular, thank you for your commitment to better mental health outcomes.

1:25:12

We know that we and our residents have strong mental health, they are stronger residents, period.

1:25:18

And lastly, gonna just rattle off a few observances here.

1:25:22

Today is Indigenous People's Day, so um for those who celebrate, I wish you blessings on that.

1:25:28

The 15th marks the end of Hispanic Heritage Month.

1:25:31

We have a very large Hispanic and growing Hispanic population that we should be recognizing.

1:25:36

October is domestic violence awareness month, and I just recently had the opportunity to sit on a panel as a survivor with Kingdom Builders Family Life Center.

1:25:45

And last but certainly not least, um October is also Filipino American History Month, and we have a growing and robust Filipino American community to include one of our staffers, Ayana Garcia.

1:25:59

So thank you, everybody.

1:26:02

Councilman Lineweber, do you have an alibi?

1:26:05

I do.

1:26:06

I just wanted to get the numbers accurate.

1:26:08

So for Colorado in 2023, the economic output for outdoor recreation was $65 billion, and the GDP contribution was $36.5 billion, and it supplied 404,000 jobs representing 12% of the entire state's labor force.

1:26:32

Those are big numbers.

1:26:35

Okay, that concludes our work session meeting agenda for today.

1:26:48

I'm sorry.

1:26:49

You're gonna recess for the closed session.

1:26:52

Okay, we're in the sum right back in.

1:26:55

Yeah.

1:26:56

Um so we'll read in.

1:26:57

We're in recess, so we'll have the uh attorney read in.

1:27:01

Okay, Council President.

1:27:02

Would you like me to do that right now?

1:27:04

Yes, sir.

1:27:04

Okay, no problem.

1:27:06

In accord with City Charter Article 3, Section 3-60 D and its incorporated Colorado Open Meetings Act, CRS Section 24-6-4024 AB and E.

1:27:16

The City Council in open session is to determine whether it will hold a closed executive session.

1:27:21

The issues to be discussed involve instruction to negotiators and consultation with the city attorney for the purpose of receiving legal advice regarding one, the sale of real property within Pink Peak Innovation Park, two, an intergovernmental agreement for facilities acquisition and payment related to Peak Innovation Park.

1:27:38

Three, another intergovernmental agreement for facilities acquisition and payment related to Peak Innovation Park, four, an economic development incentive agreement, and five, legal advice regarding criminal penalties associated with public camping.

1:27:52

The president of council shall poll the city council members, and upon consent of two-thirds of the members present may conduct a closed executive session.

1:28:00

In the event any city council member is participating electronically or telephonically in the closed executive session, each city council member participating in the executive session shall affirmatively state for the record that no other member of the public not authorized to participate in the executive session is present or able to hear the matters discussed.

1:28:18

If consent of the closed executive session is not given, the item or items may be discussed in open session or withdrawn from consideration.

1:28:26

Now the fact that we have five of these, I think a single I will be sufficient.

1:28:30

And if you do not want to go in with one of these, perhaps just state that separately today.

1:28:40

Councilmember Bailey.

1:28:42

Councilmember Crow Iverson.

1:28:44

Hi.

1:28:45

Councilmember Donaldson.

1:28:46

Aye.

1:28:46

Councilmember Gold.

1:28:47

Aye.

1:28:48

Councilmember Hendron.

1:28:49

Hi.

1:28:50

Councilmember Lineweber.

1:28:51

Aye.

1:28:52

Councilmember Rainey.

1:28:53

Aye.

1:28:54

Councilmember Risley.

1:28:55

Aye.

1:28:56

Councilmember Williams.

1:28:58

Yes, and yes, I'm along.

1:29:02

Okay, we'll clear the room.

1:29:20

Okay, we have come out of executive session.

1:29:22

Um we are out of our recess, and now we will end the work session meeting for today.

1:29:28

We are adjourned.

Discussion Breakdown — Share of Meeting
Engineering And Infrastructure████████████████████████████28%
Budget Equity Analysis█████████████████████████25%
Procedural██████████10%
Business Improvement Districts████████8%
Public Safety███████7%
Affordable Housing█████5%
Tourism█████5%
Economic Development███3%
Public Engagement███3%
Summary of Proceedings

Colorado Springs City Council Work Session - October 13, 2025

The City Council Work Session was held on Monday, October 13, 2025, at 9:00 AM in Council Chambers. All nine council members were present. The session covered the 2026 budget for the Pikes Peak Regional Building Department, service plan amendments for Peak and Hancock Metropolitan Districts, the Development Review Enterprise fee schedule, and 2026 operating plans for 18 Business Improvement Districts. The meeting concluded with an executive session and adjournment at 11:50 AM.

Consent Calendar

  • Minutes of September 22, 2025 Work Session – Approved by consensus.
  • 7A: PPRBD 2026 Budget – Resolution approving the 2026 budget for Pikes Peak Regional Building Department. Presented by Roger Lovell. No fee increases; budget anticipates a draw from fund balance. Placed on consent for the regular meeting.
  • 7B & 7C: Peak Metropolitan Districts 1-3 and 4-7 Service Plan Amendments – Amendments to add stormwater maintenance services. Supported by the airport. Placed on consent.
  • 7D & 7E: Hancock Metropolitan District Service Plan Amendment and Property Inclusion – Minor language changes and inclusion of a 7-acre parcel for 69 single-family homes. Council confirmed compatibility with the service plan. Placed on consent.
  • 7G through 7X: 2026 BID Operating Plans and Budgets – 18 Business Improvement District budgets presented. All to be forwarded for formal approval on October 28, 2025. Placed on consent unless council requests further discussion.

Discussion Items

  • 7A: PPRBD 2026 Budget – Council discussed the 36% increase in average single-family home valuation since 2023, high material costs, staffing levels, and a revenue spike in June 2022. PPRBD maintains the lowest fees in the state and tracks plan review turnaround times (2-3 weeks).
  • 7B & 7C: Peak Metropolitan Districts – Council confirmed the amendments are supported by the airport and will facilitate development at Peak Innovation Park.
  • 7D & 7E: Hancock Metropolitan District – Council discussed a letter from WBA Local Government Law Firm regarding compatibility; staff confirmed the amendments address the concerns. The future realignment of Hancock Expressway was noted.
  • 7F: Development Review Enterprise Fee Schedule – Proposed 16% average fee increase for hillside and sign permits due to inspection costs. Council questioned the reserve fund (currently ~$3 million, down from $6 million) and requested a detailed analysis of past drawdowns. The item was not placed on consent; further discussion anticipated at the regular meeting.
  • 7G-7X: BID Budgets – Council discussed mill levy changes, Public Improvement Fees, and the 5.25% property tax waiver. Councilmember Henjum requested information on privately placed debt. A spreadsheet of BID data was requested.

Councilmember Reports

  • Councilmember Leinweber reported on the Colorado Outdoor Leadership Summit, noting outdoor recreation contributes $65 billion to Colorado's economy and 404,000 jobs. He also celebrated the release of 20 hostages.
  • Councilmember Donelson recognized the new CSPD officers sworn in, attended the Bentley Commons ribbon cutting, and highlighted UCHealth's reimbursement challenges.
  • Councilmember Henjum called for a more strategic use of tourism tax dollars to support outdoor recreation.
  • Councilmember Rainey thanked CSPD graduates, attended the Fostering Hope event, and participated in pothole filling with Public Works. He noted an upcoming fire department graduation.
  • Councilmember Gold thanked colleagues for affordable housing efforts, acknowledged COSILoveYou, announced the acquisition of Pikes Peak Bulletin by Juaquin Mobley, and recognized Indigenous Peoples Day, Hispanic Heritage Month, Domestic Violence Awareness Month, and Filipino American History Month.

Key Outcomes

  • Consent items – The majority of introduction items were placed on the consent agenda for the October 28 regular meeting, including the PPRBD budget, Peak and Hancock service plan amendments, and all 18 BID budgets.
  • DRE Fee Schedule – Not placed on consent; council requested additional information on reserve fund history and will revisit at the regular meeting.
  • Executive Session – Held in closed session from approximately 10:20 AM to 11:50 AM to discuss real property sales, intergovernmental agreements, economic development incentives, and legal advice on public camping. Two-thirds of council consented.
  • Next Steps – Formal approval of BID budgets and other consent items scheduled for October 28, 2025 regular meeting.

Meeting Transcript

Good morning. We're gonna start this City Council of Car Springs Work Session meeting for Monday, October 13th. Will the clerk please read? Call the roll. Don't read the roll. Call the councilmember Bailey. Here. Councilmember Crow Averson. Here. Councilmember Donaldson. Here. Councilmember Gold. Here. Councilmember Hendrum. Present. Councilmember Williams. Here. Councilmember Lion Webber. Here. Councilmember Rainey. Here. Councilmember Risley. Here. All nine present. Changes to the agenda. Do we have any changes to today's agenda? Seeing none. Regular meeting comments. Are there any changes to the regular meeting for tomorrow? Seeing none. We'll preview previous meeting minutes. Will the clerk please read item 4A into the record? Review uh City Council Work Session Meeting Minutes, September 22nd, 2025. Do we have any changes to these minutes? Seeing none, we will move on to um we have no presentations for general information six staff and appointee reports. Will the clerk please read item six A into the record? Agenda planner review. Do we have any comments on the upcoming agenda planner review? Seeing none for the record, there are no comments on the agenda of planner review. Moving on to item seven. Will the clerk please read item 7a into the record? A resolution approving the 2025 budget for Pikes Peak Regional Building Department. Good morning, Roger. Can you turn the green button on? There we go. There you go. Thank you. Good morning, Roger Lovell Building Official for Pikes Peak Regional Building Department. I do have our director of finance here, Lauren Burris, with us today, in the event any questions come up. But thank you, Council, for hearing us today and uh for allowing me to present the budget.

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