Awesome.

All right.

Well, welcome.

Happy November.

Good afternoon and welcome to the Colorado Springs Historic Preservation Board meeting for November 3rd, 2025.

The Historic Preservation Board is comprised of seven members appointed by City Council to administer the Historic Preservation Code.

Historic Preservation Board members are community volunteers with expertise across a wide variety of disciplines.

Each member acts independently, carefully assessing all the evidence presented to make their decision.

So with that, um let's go ahead and do a call to I did the call order.

Uh roll call.

Present.

Board member music.

Board member Baumgartner.

Board member Fitzsimmons.

Board Member Potter.

Board Member Briebaum here.

Thank you.

We have four members present.

Thank you.

Okay.

Um I am not aware or tracking and changes to the agenda.

We will postpone approval of the minutes until we have the forum.

We need to make a motion for that postponement since we don't have the forum.

I don't think so.

No.

Okay.

With that, item number three on the agenda, communications, Mr.

Gray.

All right.

So all right, thank you, Christine.

Um, I have a couple announcements.

Um, I will first start with the newest uh member of the city planning department.

Um Solange is right.

It's Charlie Rose.

Hi, what's um I was gonna make a joke.

Did you all think that Charlie Rose was going to be somebody else?

The PBS broadcasting.

I did it did cross my mind.

Yeah, yeah.

All right.

And then I look around the room and I'm like right.

So um yeah, so well, I don't know, Charlie, if you want to just introduce yourself and maybe say a few words.

Hi, I'm Charlie.

I'm uh the planning technician one.

I just started about a week ago and I'm very happy to be here.

Welcome.

All right, that was it.

Thank you, Charlie, for uh allowing me to tell my joke.

So all right, um uh next I wanted to talk about um at our last meeting we had Lindsay Welling here.

Um and one of the discussion items that came out of that was a training for the historic preservation board on kind of best practices for public meetings, uh and also um education and outreach.

And Lindsay did say she would be able to do something um like that.

Uh but before we put that on our agenda, I wanted to know if the board thought that our December meeting would work for that.

Um I think it would be better if we all attended in person um just to get more uh we get more value out of that.

Um if you all don't think December would work, um we could then start talking about um uh the first of the year.

And I also thought I might invite um the Manitou Springs store preservation uh commission.

I don't know of another, I don't think we have any other I guess well organized commissions, but we could write other municipalities and count the county if they all prove out December the first Monday December would be better than the first Monday in January because that's like January 5th.

People might still be on break or holiday or vacation head.

Oh, I could so I'll check with Lindsay to make sure that one.

Okay, all right.

All right, you're always on Mr.

Hines, always on.

Uh Judy, uh any input on that?

Uh no, I think it's a great idea, but I don't really recommend that we ask the committee.

I'm sorry, Judy, we couldn't quite catch that.

Oh, I said that I think we also we definitely should ask what can we be.

We're having audio issues, Judy.

I don't know if you can speak more loudly into the microphone.

Oh, there you go.

recommend that we ask the company I'm sorry Judy we couldn't quite catch that oh I said that I think we also we definitely should ask what can we hear she changed the word we're having audio issues Judy I don't know if you can speak more loudly into the microphone oh there you go try one more time okay i i just said i really recommend we include the county can you hear me now yeah yep thumbs up can the count who would we include from the county i'm not sure but i can i can chat i don't are you think in the board of commissioners well uh they have people that are involved with historic preservation at a county level do they not no i'm not sure again i i know the uh well for uh you know i saw they had a whole thing on cemeteries so i was assuming they had some kind of process but even planning you know even planning would you know somebody from planning just a representative just invite them to attend sure yes i can reach out to other jurisdictions good yeah they're really the only other active preservation commission that we have that i know of is manitou springs here locally so otherwise we have to go to cripple creek well be a great training yeah right you know actually cripple creek we mean there's such a strong connection historically with all the Brazilianaires that made their money in cripple creek that wouldn't be a bad idea really okay i think they'll reach out to other municipalities and see what volunteer boards there are that might be that's not a problem so thank you all right um the other item would be um coordinating a presentation on the historic resource survey plan to planning commission and city council um so i was thinking uh planning commission for either their december or january meeting and city council uh in january um but i would like if the board would want um you can either just i could do it um but i would like to have a few board members what are the dates in january or excuse me december the december date uh for planning commission uh would be rian i just have to ask this question first would would it be better to do that as an informal item or a formal item for planning commission oh yeah informal um so that date would be third of december third of december well i think that got pushed to the fourth all right the fourth of december um i no why don't i work on the else wanted to you know if there's somebody else who's interested in doing that presentation or email um and then i will work uh ron did say he would be willing to come back it just has to work with his schedule so um do you have the january date by any chance for planning option yeah i do it's january date for informal is january 7th still informal oh we're important sorry i it's the eighth yeah it's thursday we're informal and wednesday i i could hear that anybody else that's what i'm having my shred um so well this is what i'll do i'll work on coordinating that those for january then okay all right and that is it for communication and then um we did have we do have the line item and communications if the any member of the board has any any communications they would like to share with uh with the rest of the board so i do not did you have anything you wanted to share with the board uh no correct no question okay oh i do have i got an uh an email from somebody i quite i can't quite remember who wanting to know the address of paying a me chapel and i thought it was from i erased it from my record i thought it was from one of the board members is it anybody did anybody email me but in the address we did discuss paying chapel and because it's is uh it's in ron's uh say well it'll be captured in the minutes for next month okay yeah yeah chat address you got it okay um i don't have anything okay thank you okay um with that moving on to item number four approval for the minutes um these are the minutes for the october 6th 2025 um meeting we do not have a quorum to approve those so that will be this next month um will email some thoughts and comments she has to

Okay, yeah, yeah.

Chapter address you got it.

Okay.

Um I don't have anything.

Okay.

Thank you.

Okay.

Um that moving on to item number four, approval for the minutes.

Um, these are the minutes for the October 6th, 2025.

Um meeting, we do not have a forum to approve those.

So that will be this next month.

Um email some thoughts and comments she has to build.

Okay, and then we do have one item on the consent agenda.

Um, so this item is um on the consent calendar to it's to be acted on as a whole without further public comment unless a specific item is called up for discussion.

Any items called off will be heard immediately after the rest of the consent calendar is decided on.

So Ms.

Along, would you please read the item into the record?

Item 58, H I S T 25-0010, a report of acceptability for a new outdoor patio that includes a cover deck patio door pavers on fireplace located at 2017 Wood Avenue.

The presenter is William Gray.

Um is there a commissioner who would like to pull this item off of the consent calendar.

I made a motion and we pull it up.

Um pull that off and have that read into the record for full presentation.

All right, are we ready?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

All right.

So the this is the uh application uh for 2017 um Wood Avenue.

Um the application is for a new um outdoor um patio.

It would replace the existing uh patio.

So on the screen highlighted in um the yellow area is the location uh of the existing uh patio that also is uh replicates the approximate location for the uh new patio.

Um this image shows um the the location um in the more uh blown up image uh uh for its location.

So the patio does sit behind um the house between um the home and and the garage, Wood Avenue is um is out here.

The um as I had mentioned, the patio does exist.

This new patio would uh replace that.

Um the following um images are um uh the plans for the proposed patio.

So we give you a uh detailed um aerial view of the of the patio.

Um the patio instead of being the cover instead of being a pergola is now a covered uh patio, includes um the paver paved uh areas here as uh stepped down from the uh proposed patio.

Let me just give you another more images.

This one, so um relates to the access uh from the patio into the house.

That back door is replaced with um a set of uh slider doors.

So it um it's just a an improvement in terms of the uh quality of construction, quality of materials as compared to the um patio that exists this uh application for this um project again is located to the rear of the home.

Um it doesn't have any impact on the uh historic, the historical historic portions of the home.

This pergola is on a pretty large um addition that happened on the back of the house um in the um 2000s and in staff's review of this um application, we found that it met all of the criteria for a report of acceptability.

have any impact on the uh historic the historical historic portions of the home this pergola is on a pretty large um addition that happened on the back of the house um in the um two thousands and in staff's review of this um application we found that it met all of the criteria for a report of acceptability we did receive uh two emails um in support of the application we also got three phone calls in support of the application um uh that those were and i guess i would just add because staff found that all of the criteria met we had no public comment that was in opposition of the application well that it met all of the requirements to put it on the consent agenda and that is all that um uh staff has on this application but the applicants um are here in the audience if you have any questions for them of their proposed project and they're sitting right back over your right should okay uh are so you are you're completely think I said anything one add um I think you said it beautifully thank you so much yeah yeah it's it's just improving on the space that was already there's nothing that we're added you can't see anything from even the alleyway you can't see you can see nothing from the front it's not you know hurting the historical aspects of the home at all there was already a patio there it's just making it updated and honestly just prettier it the you know the pergola was rotten it's it's a a better version of what was there thank you okay that I would um open it for public comment for those that are in the board of it and if there's anyone in the audience oh besides the um well i think after we get through then we'll come back to the closing we'll close public comment in a few minutes judy and turn it back to the board um is there any commentary from folks from the public in support of the project that are here or online okay um anyone in opposition okay with that um we'll go ahead and close the public comment and um bring that back to the board for discussion judy did you raise your hand yeah i have no problem with this i think it's fine uh but i do have a question of parliamentary procedure if we don't have a quorum can we vote on it we do have a quorum for the five minutes yeah just for the minutes we did not because i wasn't here last time so i couldn't vote on the minute i see okay thank you i had a question about design can you go back to the image oh sure can second so you have a an image of uh the downspout which is a chain which is great but it goes right to the steps it doesn't go to the steps i think the renderings off the there's a see that section right there where that grass is drawn yes there's a section of dirt that's right there i would like to tell you that it's really pretty right now but there's some okay yeah that grass right there it's not there's there's an existing downspout on the corner of that house from from the old roof i think there can their ideas to tie into that i think he was just taking a little artistic impression with this perhaps no it's just yeah yeah thank you auto cow you can only do so much yeah grab it you're right it's there you grab it yeah okay um johes do you have any comments or questions or uh this is do you say project oh no no it is not it looks good to me oh well then yeah we did it all ourselves those are my comments no we we'd like to refer this as a toe tag house meaning that's the way they're gonna carry me out of this is not a flip i'm not going anywhere all right um so with that i would call um ask is there a motion could we put the motion back up on the board is there a motion um i can let you know what the motion would be or we can wing it in motion to approve the report of acceptability for the 2017 wood avenue uh outdoor patio project yeah i think that's what is there a motion to approve or yeah motion motion to approve yeah would anyone like to make that yeah 2017 wood avenue 2017 wood avenue outdoor patio outdoor patio i would like to make a motion to approve and i would like to second

I think that's what is there a motion to approve or motion.

Would anyone like to make that motion?

2017 Wood Avenue.

2017 Wood Avenue.

Outdoor patio.

Outdoor patio.

I would like to make a motion to approve.

And I would like to second.

Chair Lowenberg.

Hi.

Board Member Fitzsimmons.

Hi.

Board Member Bierbaum.

Hi.

Board Member Heinz.

Hi.

Thank you.

The uh motion passes unanimously.

We'll leave you alone.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Appreciate you.

When is the uh question?

Well, I'd uh when we finish.

I'm hoping to begin by Thanksgiving.

That's what I keep telling my mom.

Thanksgiving is just finished the extreme.

Thank you.

Thank you guys.

Okay, let's discussion.

In accordance with the requirements of section 7.5.415 of the city's unit unified development code.

Excuse me.

An affected party may appeal to the city council any action of the historic preservation board in relation to city code where the action was adverse averse to that person.

Within 10 days of the final action of the item being appealed, which is Thursday, I'm assuming November 16th, 2025, not October 16.

Um the appellant must first file notice of appeal and pay the 176 fee with the city clerk.

The appeal letter should address the specific city code requirements that were not adequately addressed by the historic preservation board.

City Council may elect to limit discussion of the appeal hearing to the specific matters set forth in the appeal letter.

Excuse me, November 13th.

All the wrong days, November 13th.

So with that, we'll move to item nine on the agenda, presentations, and updates.

The members that aren't here are going through this training.

Do they have to get a recording of it?

I hope that's just watch this.

Neither of mine's kidding.

Is currently chapter one of the city code.

Um there have been significant amendments since the original passing.

Um so I would advise that each member, um, though it may not be the most exciting read that you take some time to to look through the ethics code.

It is very important in your role.

One of the most important things you all should keep in mind are advisory opinions.

This is essentially just you reaching out to me as your uh legal counsel for your um during your tenure as uh as a board member for any ethics concerns.

Um, however, they have to be regarding future action, and you have to let me know all the individual um facts specific so that I can discuss that with you in depth, and then I can provide you all um my uh opinion in writing.

That's the most important part.

That if I do provide an opinion in writing and you follow whatever is in that opinion, that could be a defense to any allegation of a violation.

Verbal opinions don't have that same um weight.

So if you do have any future items that come up that are concerned, um please reach out via email, or you can reach out to one of staff members and they can let me know and put me in contact with you all to discuss that.

Another major umbrella under the city code of ethics are gifts.

Um, as you can see, no covered person or immediate family member shall solicit, except or give any gift related to the covered person's duties and responsibilities on behalf of the city.

Um gifts to covered persons are uh prohibited unless uh we can find an exception that applies.

Now the immediate family member definition includes uh it's it's a broad definition.

It includes just about anyone you live with, really.

Um so uh uh make sure that your family members are aware that they cannot take any gifts on your behalf because they are also covered under that umbrella as well.

Moving on to gift exceptions.

If a gift cannot reasonably be considered a bribe or means of improper influence on direct official action, then we can see if one of the other um exceptions applies.

The first one being that it has to be under 75 dollars per year from a vendor or a third party.

This is all um adjusted for inflation.

Uh any unsolicited awards, plaques or uh professional awards, any awards, prizes at competitions or drawings that are open, also open to the public.

And um any fees associated essentially with the conference.

However, uh, you must be either speaking at the conference.

This conference must be part of a vendor agreement or um hosted by a 501c3.

Uh the list continued here.

Perishables or consumable gifts given to a city department or a group, gifts that become property of the city, or discounts that are similarly available to the public generally or to a large segment of the public.

Now, I just want to emphasize that initial part about that cannot be considered a bribe or a means of improper influence.

Just because it falls under one of these lists or exceptions, does not be uh it doesn't cover you outright.

We have to do that analysis to make sure that it cannot be considered a bribe or an improper um uh influence on your direct official action, and that's why it's important that you reach out in ahead uh ahead of time, or if it's a gift situation where someone sends you something, just don't open it, don't eat it, whatever it may be, um, and reach out first.

Uh another major umbrella under the code of ethics are conflicts of interests.

Obviously, conflicts of interests are prohibited.

A covered person may not use either for themselves or an immunity family member or disclose any confidential information.

Um you may not knowingly make an authorized commitments or promises purporting to bind the city.

You may not request or grant special consideration treatment or advantage um beyond that available to every other private organization or individual.

You may not endorse private organizations or individuals, may not directly or undirectly participate in any matter in which they or an immediate family member has a substantial interest, and you may not miss appropriate services or other resources of the city or personal benefit.

Um there is a conflict of interest, disclosure and recusal are mandatory.

Now, these may sound very you know straightforward on paper, but there may be some circumstances that come up that you know require additional discussion.

Um, and uh for those circumstances or any questions really regarding uh conflicts of interest, I am always here for there's what's called appearance of a propriety.

This is when it kind of seems like a conflict, but it kind of doesn't.

Um, it occurs when a cover person will or may create a reasonable perception that his or her ability to carry out official duties with integrity and partiality and competence is impaired, but the action does not constitute a full-blown conflict of interest.

Now, when there is an appearance of impropriety, disclosure and recusar are voluntary, it's really up to you.

Um this disclosure can be in writing um in ahead of time uh in advance, excuse me, of the meeting, or it can be done orally right at the meeting, right before the action items are called now.

If there is a conflict of interest uh interest and you are required to disclose and recuse, um, these are what's uh required.

You must refrain from voting on or taking any official action.

This includes any discussion prior to the action item.

Um, so it will be really as soon as the item is mentioned or read into the record by Salange that you say, okay.

I have a disclosure, I have a conflict for XYZ reason, and then therefore I'm recusing myself.

When you um are aware that there's a conflict of interest, you have to refrain again from communicating with any other individual that um has authority to take official actions with any other board member.

Um again, as a side note, this includes uh commenting on the matter through any public or private statements, emails, blogs, tweets, phone calls, text messages, whatever you can think of, it c includes any and all communication.

So please be aware of that.

And for the recusal portion, you have to physically leave the room or a premises at which the matter is being discussed.

Here you can just you know, obviously leave the room, wait outside, and someone will come get you uh upon the closure of that item.

Finally, here the open meetings.

So um, under the corridor revised statutes, all meetings of a quorum or three or more members of any local public body, um, whichever is fewer.

So here we focus on three or more at which any public business is discussed or at which any formal action may be taken, are declared to be public meetings open to the public at all times.

Again, this will include any email chains, text messages, group chats, phone calls, Zoom meetings, whatever you can think of.

If three or more of you are going to gather to talk about public business, it has to be um disclosed under the open meetings law.

And what that notice requires is um they call it full and timely notice under the statute.

It has to be 24 hours in advance and has to be posted in a designated public place for um public members to be able to see that notice and say, okay, there's a public meeting, I'm gonna attend.

This is really for the public because um the important part of these public meetings is that the public can come and comment on any of the items that they have concerns with when that said item is being voted on, is to make sure that the voice of the citizens is heard um when there is that opportunity um afforded to them, which should be at every public meeting for any action item.

That is all I have for you.

Um, as always, I am uh here to advise you in any ethics or um legal concerns you may have.

Uh if you do have anything that comes up, please reach out to to Will or Salange, um, maybe Ryan, and then they can contact, or you can just call the city attorney's office and ask for yell, and they'll get you to me.

Thank you.

Of course, any questions?

None.

That's how I like it.

We have one question from Judy.

She just wanted to know.

Um is this the same ethics training that she took before her appointment to the HPB?

I assume it is right.

But one of the requirements of all boards, yeah, um, or appointed boards or commissions is that you take the ethics training annually.

Yeah, if it's a training sent you uh sent to you by the city is probably very similar because it's on the same code.

Um, it's probably almost probably word for word.

But yeah, uh Bill is corrected, it's an annual requirement per city code that I go over this with every board member.

Um, so yeah, I got a city kind of question.

If I were to invite four or five members of board to a cocktail party, that's legal as long as we don't talk about anything about correct.

And I bring a model of line.

And you bring it by the line.

Then it's okay.

Right, but you can't talk about any historic preservation items.

You can talk about the interest of historic preservation, but nothing that will come.

Okay, we want to make sure.

Call me first, we'll talk.

Um other questions.

Yeah, I just wondering, um, will is this training included in the minutes for the other members who are not here to review?

It will be.

Thank you.

The video will also be available.

And the recording will also be available.

All righty.

Thank you.

Of course.

I try because it's better to get these quicker.

Yeah, no, you're not exactly good views.

So moving on to item number 90 uh work plan.

Um I'll try to make this uh pain painless as well.

And brief.

So um hopefully um, so we are required to provide a work plan to the city council annually.

Um that's all I know really.

Um, and so I have uh outlined three goals for 2026.

Goal number one would be for us to continue our efforts on the historic resources survey and context plan by actually identifying some survey or resurvey work, prioritize that work, uh, work with other historic preservation advocates to determine um what uh project we would work, what we would work towards, and then also um uh as a result of that uh develop a scope of work and also take steps to finding funding for that.

Um the uh um goal number two would be to um begin the process of updating the city's historic preservation ordinance.

Um that is um an action item that is listed in historic COS and also um under historic um uh COS.

Um and then the last question is just um is a or the last goal is just a very basic one.

It's what we do all the time.

It's continue to do all the work that we always do um as it relates to reports of acceptability and so on and so forth.

And and um, and so that's really it.

I um if I guess the board that is here has any questions that at least initial thought is at least a thumbs up so I can get this turned in.

And if we need to come back and revisit some of these and uh tweak the language, uh we can do so in December, January.

But um, but those are kind of the broad goals that I think that we should have.

And then just one other item is that we do have this goal that was kind of outstanding from last year, the educational kind of goal and website improvement.

That goal has not gone away.

We're gonna continue to uh to work on that.

It just took a back seat, at least from my point of view, uh, because I was trying to get through the historic resources survey plan with with Ron and make sure that project got finished.

So what would you remember?

Three out of this it was um it was just uh it was related to historic preservation overlay design reviews that we continue to do that, we act on those as required.

Um is because we found deficiencies, or is it on a scheduled update?

One of the um it is um I guess it's two things, it's kind of both.

Um it has been identified in a couple of our plans when we were doing the update to the unit you the development code, the city did kind of promise to historic preservation advocates that that would be one thing that we do to do.

Well, one I think one of the kind of deficient areas of the code that we have right now is um is in landmarking individual properties, everything gets lumped into historic preservation overlay district and I think there should be maybe different approaches to how you would do large geographic areas versus uh an individual property that qualifies that we think is historic that you might want to be able to have maybe some lower, I don't know.

Uh don't take this wrong lower standards or lesser standards for like the type of documentation you provide for that to make a landmark decision versus maybe like all of the requirements that might go into um identifying a larger geographic area in terms of like what kind of public outreach do you have?

Um, you know, is the you know, is the geographic area all about architecture or is it about something you know, something else, but I think there should be maybe it's really to look at two tiers of historic landmarking.

So I think um I think these three goals are totally in line with when we discussed it a month ago and you know, have the opportunity about it and folks maybe I think these three are right in line with that.

So my take would be a thumbs up.

Okay.

Yeah, we don't need to make a vote on we don't have to vote on this just to Judy.

Go ahead.

Uh a couple things.

First of all, um I agree with you.

And also I think that we when you come uh come back, it would be good to have some quarterly goals.

Uh just you know, some time you have some timelines in here already, but quarterly goals for community outreach and education, and then an update, Bill, with your meetings that uh with your presentations as to where we are in that process.

Also I want to go on record as saying I do not believe that Bill has nearly enough time, and I really appreciate the fact that he's probably dedicating more than his um zero percent of time allowed for this work.

So um, you know, anything that can be done to help him uh spend his time judiciously, and maybe it means that the board members themselves say, okay, we have a committee for public education, or we have a committee for community outreach rather than expecting Bill to have to do all of this work on his limited time.

Yeah, I think that's a fair point, Judy.

Um, you know, I know from my perspective, I know I don't expect Bill to do that.

I I don't think the rest of the board does, and everyone recognizes time is limited.

You know, I would I agree with you on the point about timelines, but I think we as a board need to come up with timelines because what are we willing to put in um you know, I'm keenly aware that you know, for example, on here, Paul is listed as a vice chair, Paul is stepping away.

Right, Paul's moved away, Paul is transitioning out of the vice position, we need another vice.

Um, we're gonna need to start um, and this is on my list of things to do to follow up the city staff about um posting the alternate positions so we can get moving on that.

But I I I agree with you on the point about timelines, but I think we need to come up with timelines because you're right.

I mean, we do need we we we do heavy lifting, but I also don't want it to be skewed where it's just like one or two people, like how can we approach this in a group that's manageable?

Um, I think everyone just again being cognizant.

Um the world, all all of our all of our jobs are becoming more intense because of what's going on.

Um and so I just want to be cognizant of that.

Um so maybe maybe Judy, we we could think about as a board, you know, come back when when Bill comes back about what makes sense.

Um, I think thinking about anything online, like that's gotta push way out, you know.

So there's if there's any updating to the website, like you know, we know city resources are limited.

We I know you don't have like an ITT, none of us know that even if we write it for you, it still has to go through legal, it still has to go through IT, it still has to go through all of that.

Um, you know, so you know, if I were thinking timelines, I would push that one really really far out.

Um for identifying future survey work.

I think that would be a great one, like for quarter one of calendar year 26.

Maybe we have a whole meeting, but we just talk about that, you know, the survey work and what that means to us, and just you know, give ourselves the time and space here to to talk about that.

Um, and Bill did put on here a timeline of January to March 2026.

So, you know, I wouldn't ask Bill to change that because I think that makes a lot of sense.

Right.

Um goal number two updating the city's historic preservation ordinance.

I mean, he he did put a timeline down of January to December.

So that's the entire year.

Um, you know, I think I think that's a step-by-step effort.

I mean, that that's not just but you know, is that monthly?

Do we do something monthly?

And also timelines also uh naturally require accountability, and that's what I'm getting at.

I'll all for accountability, but I don't want to overpromise and underdeliver, right?

I mean, I think what we have this year with uh community education and outreach.

Well, yeah, no, I'm not trying to be confrontational.

I'm just trying to say, you know, how can we be most effective as a board?

And I think that's what we all want.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, um, I think you're not wrong there.

Um then we talked about the design review on a monthly basis.

And so he did he did include timelines.

So I'm not sure if I'd ask still to modify those.

Would you would you, Judy?

Uh well, you know, I think I I um for the timeline that's all year long.

I would say, okay, just and you know, honestly, it's a goal, it's not cash and concrete or anything, but you know, we it in January we do this, in February we do this, you know, break it down our our quarterly or something so that we had you know, we're not feeling like we're on a sea of ambiguity.

No, that's fair.

I think um, why don't I be glad to do that for the historic preservation board, but I'm not sure I want to do that for the city council because they're never gonna uh no, they're not gonna see it anyway out of care in that level of detail.

So right, I agree, Bill.

I agree.

I have a suggestion for the uh education outreach.

I was talking to my friend Kate Brady, who used to be a planner here, she works for the Pioneer Museum, and they're studying different things of past history of Calor Springs.

And I said, would you be willing to present and maybe we just team up with them and have them guide us with what they're researching?

They're doing WPA stuff right now, which is right up our alley of historical things that the city owns that you were talking, we were talking about earlier, and so we could team up instead of just being the ones throwing out ideas.

We just team up and piggyback on what they're doing.

Yeah, I think and I think outside of the meeting proper, I think we've done some of that.

There might be an opportunity for to do that within meetings.

Again, being careful to task city staff with too much right now.

I think one of the easier things, at least from my point of view, to set up about at least outreach or education is to do those kinds of I don't know, seminars or like we did historic preservation tax credits.

That's just you know, organizing a space on a subject and find a subject, gather enough people, and you know, do a press release invite, you know, the historic preservation kind of advocate type groups, uh see if you know, reach out a little further and then just do those things on a recurring basis.

And I mean, those are the yeah, I think they may not seem like they are a big deal, but uh I think people really appreciate it.

I mean, the one thing that is surprising to me is the HPA and historic neighborhood partnership continue to talk about the time we did the historic preservation tax credit workshop.

And you know, so just doing those kinds of things, it may seem small, but um, I think that it does serve the purpose of you know, educating um on historic preservation, just giving us on what we have or if you are in a historic person, what advantages do you get?

So, anyhow, I think that's a good idea.

I think it's a good idea.

So we yeah, be glad to kind of yeah, we're work with anyone that has an ideas on that and put together.

Yeah, it's easy to get space.

So the last presentation we had um hospital business uh tax credits.

Yeah, I got two businesses in contact with uh that group, and they're gonna have meetings to see if somehow they qualify, you know, they're nonprofits, so like how do I how do I get business credit taxes if I don't pay taxes?

And they said, Oh, there's ways, and so there's probably lots of organizations that have historic buildings that could actually uh do something with them because uh now that there's tax credit available.

And I just one last thing.

Um at our meeting last month when Lindsay was here from the state, we this subject on education and outreach um came up, and the day that Lindsay was here, she had sent out some information about you know education and outreach, and um she'd provided just some quick references on what other um historic preservation boards and commissions are doing is it related.

And I thought maybe with the training that we've kind of talked about doing, that was a component of it.

And it I thought if we could it might also help us all to get kind of get our arms around what we want to do if we can kind of see what others are doing, and if we and Lindsay can give us a perspective of you know, like what is what's uh Cortez doing or what is Trinidad doing or Leadville or Lake City.

Sometimes those small places I think show you how grassroots historic preservation efforts really make a big difference.

And I thought that might, and also they don't have anyone that's a full-time staff person or anything like that.

So I thought that might be just a if we could kind of see some of those examples, it might also help us better formulate maybe ideas on all right, what do we want to do here, you know, locally?

Um and you know, knowing that we struggle with you know resources and things, things like that.

So that's why I I thought maybe it was important to include that in our training because it would I thought would could be a real way for that to kind of help us and maybe inspire us a little bit to think of it differently and not and kind of out of the norm than what we we might traditionally think we should be doing.

So I don't have anything else.

I think for what you asked for today, I think it's something they're in support of where uh I I got a question.

Uh Ron's how our study our study do we just can that be is released officially uh or we still waiting with city council's approval.

No, it's um it's done.

Uh we can we'll work on get uh getting it a permanent place on the city's website.

Um can I let my daughter Cindy read it?

Yes, you can let's go ahead.

We can do something.

Okay, I'm gonna keep having it happy.

If you want to make sure I have this thing about going to jail, yeah, no about not going to jail.

Um did we did we want to press release and stuff on that yet?

Not yet, but we're gonna because I think that leads to you know, Jimmy's point about education outreach now.

I think that was part of our chat with like so much of our effort was going into supporting that study.

So what's going on right now is that I have delivered all of the final documents up to the state of Colorado, just waiting for their final sign off.

Um so we can close close out that grant contract with them and then move on to kind of getting that press release done and some hopefully hopefully yeah, hopefully some press on the project that we completed.

So I