Good morning and welcome to Colorado Springs City Council Work um meeting today for Tuesday, February 24th, 2026.

Will the clerk please call the roll?

Councilmember Bailey.

Here.

Councilmember Crow Iverson.

Here.

Councilmember Donaldson.

Here.

Councilmember Gold.

Here I am.

Council Member Henjam.

Present.

Councilmember Lionweaver.

Here.

Council Member Rainey.

Here.

Councilmember Risley.

Here.

Councilmember Williams.

Here.

All nine present.

So we'll move on to the invocation and the Pledge of Allegiance.

And so please stand for the invocation.

Today we are joined by Pastor John Gooddill from the First Presbyterian Church.

Good morning.

Let's pray together.

Creator God, thank you for the gift of today and for all that we can do with it.

Thank you for these leaders who are here to help our community.

Thank you for all who are here to listen and to speak today who care about our community.

And in this time together, we pray for wisdom in decisions that are made.

We pray for clarity in things that are said.

Pray for the ability to listen well to what others share.

And Lord, we pray that somehow our community would be just a little better because of this time together today.

We pray this in Jesus' name.

Amen.

Amen.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.

And to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all moving on to the consent calendar.

We will now consider the consent calendar.

These items will be acted on as a whole unless a specific item is called and offered discussion by a council member or a citizen wishing to address the city council.

Is there anyone who wishes to pull an item off of the consent calendar?

I have a motion from Councilman Risley.

And a second from Councilman Bailey.

All in favor.

Any opposed?

Moving on to mayor's business.

6A, will the clerk please read item 6A into the record?

Mayor's business.

Do we have any mayor's business this morning?

Uh yeah, just briefly um by way of update.

Uh some of our citizens, uh, be it in residential areas or even commercial areas, have been contacted by some of their insurance um carriers and understand that um some of those insurance companies are looking at raising premiums for the risk of fire.

Um and these people live next to open spaces area, open space areas in the city.

And so the um fire department, public works, and parks are getting together to identify those problematic open space areas, and they're gonna work together to um start mitigating those.

So the first one is gonna be near kissing camels, and again, they're gonna strategize um and identify those parcels and prioritize those.

So I just wanted to update council uh on that.

Thank you.

We appreciate that update.

Moving item on to nine A.

Will the clerk please read item nine A into the record?

An ordinance amending section one ten camping and public property prohibited and repealing section one one one camping and ways deposit within public stream, public stream, repairing zone primitive, part one, general offenses of article six, offenses affecting property, and repealing section 404, camping restrictions of part four, offenses related to persons of article nine, park offenses of chapter nine, public offenses of Dakota, the City of Colorado Spring 2001 is amended pertaining to camping regulation and providing penalties for the violation thereof.

Councilman Donaldson.

Yeah, thanks, Madam President, and uh so today again we'll reconsider this um ordinance, which uh has been proposed, and it'll do a couple of things.

One is it combines several uh ordinances that we have now which prohibit camping in the city by right in near creeks or in parks or on city property or all those things, and then it would also add in uh vehicle camping.

And we've discussed this recently.

We've had uh uh members from the city attorney's office and CSPD give us a presentation at one of our lunches to answer questions we had.

Um this was postponed for about three months now uh to have some questions answered for council members.

Um those were were answered, and some council members wanted uh it to be adjusted.

The original version, which was proposed would have allowed someone in a vehicle to move a thousand feet, and then they would simply get a warning, they could move another thousand feet, they would get a warning, they'd move another thousand feet.

And some members felt like, well, that was kind of uh uh not the best way to address it.

So in this version, they would get a warning the first time.

Uh that we get a 24 hours to uh to move on, and then uh the second time, uh, whether they've moved a thousand feet or not, they could be sighted.

I would point out that when they're sighted, their vehicle would not be impounded.

That is not part of the the penalties for this at all.

So I I see that sometimes in letters to the editor or other places, a concern that people will lose their vehicles.

It's not really even possible with this uh ordinance.

Um I think that'll be presented to some degree in the presentation.

So the other things I'll say is uh citizens have a right to expect the city to uh uh ensure their neighborhoods are orderly and safe and clean, and allowing people to live in vehicles in their neighborhoods or in other places in our city, uh do quite do just the opposite, right?

It's no longer orderly when you have people living in front of your house and you don't know who they are, and perhaps they're very unfriendly and they have dogs which they tie to the vehicle and they're barking at your your neighbors or your your kids.

Um a little bit later, I'll read uh from a couple of emails we've received uh with a gentleman who I actually spoke last time, uh and he's been chased by people uh living in vehicles and knocked to the ground, and they've had them defecating uh by a creek uh near where he lives.

And so this isn't just some abstract thing which council decided to pick up because we didn't have anything better to do.

We're addressing this because we're receiving um complaints and and concern from citizens.

And so with that, uh Madam President, I'll hand it back to you.

Okay, we will start with citizens' comments um on this particular ordinance, and we have this morning um Paula Carroll seeding time to Eddie Ren.

Paula, are you present?

Yes, yeah.

And you cede your time to Eddie Ren.

Thank you.

And so next we have Eddie Ren.

Edie.

Is it Edie?

Did I say that correctly?

Okay, thank you.

It's Edie Ren.

And um you have nine minutes.

I understand.

Good morning, council members.

My name is Edie Wren.

I have lived experience with hidden homelessness.

I am vulnerable right now.

Many people I'm sorry, can we stop the time?

We we need her presentation.

And I need Sam.

Sorry.

I'm sorry.

Oh, I'm sorry.

I can should I wait then?

I just noticed.

Yeah, we'll let you know when it's up and we'll start your time when it's stopped for now.

Sorry.

I am nervous right now.

It's okay.

Thank you, Taver.

And you have a clicker, but you might want to have them move them for you.

Do you want to do you want to handle the um you've got it?

Okay.

That's okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

Good morning, council members.

My name is Edie Ren.

I have lived experience with hidden homelessness.

I am vulnerable right now.

Many people I know will be learning for the first time about my homelessness.

My brother Danny was homeless in Colorado Springs.

He and his dog Khisi lived throughout the West Side.

I would bring them food, resources, and care for him as often as I could.

During the time that Danny was homeless.

I had a health crisis, lost my career and quickly became homeless myself.

I was no longer able to care for my brother.

After extreme exhaustion from being homeless and fighting the system, my brother Danny took his own life in his vehicle, his last safe place, his only shelter.

His car was his home.

After my brother's cremation, I fell further into homelessness, struggling mentally and physically.

From sleeping in my vehicle on a colleague's floor, a transitional home, asking close friends and family for a place to sleep, and knowing the burden I was putting on them.

I was under extreme stress.

I began having seizures, then a heart attack, and eventually a brain bleed that has left me with cognitive deficits.

These are pictures of me within a two-year window of becoming homeless.

I show them to you to show how quickly homelessness deteriorates a human being mentally and physically.

Before I became homeless, I was healthy and active in my community.

I had an art program for children of incarcerated parents.

I was part of the IVOC team in the Veterans Ward at CJC.

I was volunteer for Project Healing Waters who help soldiers with TBI who teach them how to fly fish.

Please remember that our homeless neighbors are human beings with goals, dreams, and successes.

Before whatever crisis took them into homelessness, I've met a doctor, construction worker, teacher, even millionaires become homeless.

If we looked close enough, we would find a council member.

I show this because I did not choose homelessness or the need for supportive services.

I was honored to serve my community and I was proud of my career.

My friend John lives in his wheelchair.

He sleeps, eats, and has to use the restroom as best as he can in his wheelchair.

He cannot walk.

He cannot get to resources.

John was born disabled.

The gentleman laying on the concrete is my friend Mike.

Mike was in a car accident with severe head trauma.

Mike is not an addict.

He is cognitively broken.

He is an engineer.

He cannot get to resources.

We need more boots on the ground, resources.

And for the boots on the ground programs we have now, I admire them.

Homeless individuals are not expendable.

It is dehumanizing to ask them just to disappear.

They are as brilliant as anyone, and we need them.

Some may not have a degree or a title, but the knowledge they carry within them is invaluable for our society.

If you allow this ordinance to pass, we will have more individuals sleeping on the concrete ground, more suicides, and there will be a higher price to pay.

There's several resource providers in their community, and these are the ones that have helped me out of homelessness.

West Side Cares saved my life.

If it wasn't for Sally Knox Hall, I would still be homeless or dead.

She helped me find shelter and would call me often and tell me not to give up, and trust me, I wanted to.

I was on the edge of the cliff and had already checked myself into the crisis ward at the hospital because my complete identity and belongings had been stripped from me quickly.

I was in mental crisis.

When Sally secured private shelter for me, I was able to rest and be cover and become stronger.

When I was healthy enough, I returned to Westside Cares to volunteer, and Deb Mittgard allowed me to complete repetitive tasks that helped strengthen my brain.

Christy Milligan and her entire team are some of the most genuine people I have ever met.

Project Healing Water, I respect and believe in their mission.

I never thought I would need their services for healing myself.

Jim, Dan, Matt taught me to tie flies, a skill that helps your brain calm down and focus.

Tying flies strengthened my brain.

They did not know I was homeless.

I kept it a secret, as I did with many others.

I am forever grateful to them into Project Healing Waters.

Destination Freedom provides resources to homeless veterans in Colorado Springs and assisting incarcerated veterans and individuals returning to society, experiencing homelessness.

85% of incarcerated individuals have brain trauma and find it difficult to navigate the fast-paced changes of society when they come home.

They did crime, served time, come home and have no help, and become homeless again and end up back in the system.

We have 20% of homeless veterans in Colorado Springs.

The veteran suicide rate in Colorado is double the national average.

We need a clear focus on the link between brain injury and homelessness.

Being connected to the necessary resources can and will create a door out of homelessness for anyone.

And this is not just a resource issue.

We know that.

And that's another area.

The OBIS is an interactive tool through Colorado Mind Source that is free to use.

It screens individuals for brain injuries right where they are and creates a portal.

Any boots on the ground team can screen a homeless individual right where they are.

This tool will help bridge the cap if for gap for individuals to receive resources.

60% of homeless individuals have brain injuries.

We have over 5,000 homeless individuals in Colorado Springs who are veterans, incarcerated, addicted, medical patients, your neighbors, your friends, your colleagues.

Many cannot function cognitively.

They cannot go to or find the resources they need and deserve.

It's overwhelming.

Individuals with harsh deficits, cognitive deficits, are misunderstood and taken advantage of while struggling to survive.

I believe our officers want to and do help to see the despair every day.

I know they are affected by it.

I have family who are retired officers.

We know the revolving door of ticketing and incarceration is a negative outcome.

We can and will find a healthier solution.

We don't need any more data to do it.

We can see the data.

Give the community providers the opportunity to team up and create more boots on the ground programs to reach the disadvantaged.

Give them more time to personally hear hear from those with lived experience.

Most of them don't have email or phone access.

They don't know how to get here and sign up.

And if they struggle cognitive, they don't understand.

But it's important to hear from those who are in the trenches.

Work with them, not against them.

I know that you don't to put them to work with some kind of incentive for to return their dignity.

I ask you to remember that shelter is a basic human right.

And if you have never been without it or experienced the trauma of homelessness, with respect, I ask you to give up your beautiful safe homes and live in your vehicles without easily accessible resources.

So you will feel and be enlightened on what a human being feels while homeless, including council members out of respect and in honor of my brother Danny.

And on behalf of all those who cannot stand up and speak for themselves, I'm pleading with you.

Please have a change of heart.

Do not pass this ordinance.

Thank you.

Councilman Henjam.

Thank you, Madam President.

Edie, thank you so much for sharing your personal story and the story of your family and your brother.

Incredibly moving.

Would you mind answering a question for me, please?

Can you can you tell us how your homelessness impacted your family, your friends, your colleagues?

Can you just tell us a little bit more about the impact of your personal homelessness?

Yes, ma'am.

It um, well, uh, I mean, uh being homeless is it was embarrassing, and many people, um, individuals don't want to express or tell their family, friends, or colleagues that they be are homeless, and um uh or that they have a brain injury or mental health issues from the homelessness and brain injury.

Um it's uh it's a burden, I will say, for uh friends, family, and colleagues, even though they they of course they want to help you, um, and they do, and I did get support as much as I could, but in the long run, it could create them to go into homelessness because they have um their lives to also uh take care of.

And if you're without income, then that's a burden uh on them as well.

So um it was it affected uh several of my friendships because I hid my homelessness.

Um I I lost a very dear friend uh uh, you know, staying uh with her and um being in mental crisis and her not understanding and me not wanting to tell her why, because I was embarrassed.

Um, and it's not nothing that she did, it's just what it was a strain.

And so um it it also affects uh my children, you know, my children were affected as well.

Um thank you.

And and you were living in your car for a period of time because I did.

Um where did you park?

Did you ever have anybody come up to you or try to ticket you or where how did you manage that?

Uh I was never ticketed.

I actually I slept in my vehicle um in my SUV outside of my apartment when I first became homeless uh on the west side because I was frightened.

I didn't know where to go.

And um I had put some of my things and belonging in in um uh a small storage, but for the most part, my entire household I gave away because I knew that I couldn't carry that and and have that responsibility.

And um so then I I slept in and and I would go to the parks.

Um I like to fish, so I would there's 11-mile uh canyon.

Um that I felt safe.

And then from there, um I stayed, uh I slept on a colleague's floor.

She allowed me to uh privately uh and then uh different friends short-term, uh a transitional home that allowed me, I I found a room that that someone was renting out of their home, trying to help people, you know, for a couple hundred bucks and um and then asking uh family also for help, and and then finding, but then finally saying, Oh, I I really need help here.

I I need to be honest with myself and go ask my community for assistance, which was embarrassing.

And then I found West Side Cares, and um, and then you know the next journey has begun.

Well, thank you again for your testimony.

It was very powerful and for sharing all of the resources that you did that were so helpful to you because that is truly what we need more of, right?

Are those resources?

Yes, thank you.

Yes, ma'am.

Councilman Donaldson.

Yeah, thanks, Madam President.

And uh, ma'am, I want to thank you for uh coming here and speaking today and sharing you can have a seat.

And sharing your uh story with us.

Um I want to point out this this ordinance changes nothing in regards to those who camp in the parks or along creeks or on public space.

It changes nothing, it just consolidates that in one place to make it uh more manageable for uh police officers when they do have to cite someone when they're when they go to do that, it's in one place and the penalties are uh um unified.

And they actually I believe the penalties in this come down from where they are currently um due to a state ruling.

What is added in here is that we are going to to make it one of our laws that you aren't allowed to live in in a vehicle.

I think that's an oversight from the past when it was just assumed we wouldn't allow that.

It was assumed police would deal with that, but today we need to actually have it written out.

We need to state it.

And the interesting thing, listening to your story, it seemed that your life improved when you went and talked to your family when you dealt with it versus trying to live in your vehicle, and that is really the goal of this.

The goal is to help neighborhoods and to help those who are in the vehicles to push them in a sense to deal to go to these programs that are there, and Lieutenant Tuply can talk about this a little bit later on, perhaps.

Uh that's the goal.

It's not to give people penalties which they can't pay.

In fact, there won't be a uh a financial penalty for this.

There is a possibility that someone could uh if they refused uh treatment, uh if if they refused that they could receive a 10-day uh period in jail.

And trust me, during that period, our attorneys uh would be working with them to get them to get into uh help to get into the programs.

So that's the goal.

Um I think uh this is something that uh citizens want.

This would pass by a mile if it was on the ballot and it's it is designed and please don't uh shout from the audience.

If you notice we're very respectful when audit when members of the audience are speaking, um it would pass by a mile, and I I think I I understand concern, but I believe it is this uh this is what we need to do.

Thank you, madam president.

Councilman Lineweber.

Yeah, I have a couple questions if you come on up.

Yes.

I really do appreciate you coming forward and um and I'm a big supporter of Project Healing Waters.

They've done a lot of just really great, great things with helping people, and I I understand that completely.

But I wanted to kind of just review a few things that you've said.

Um You said you hid your home homelessness.

Uh you said you were frightened.

Yes.

Um you didn't know where to go.

And you were embarrassed.

Um, the biggest struggle that I've seen is isolation and loneliness.

And when people get isolated and alone, they they turn to things that aren't good.

And um, whether that's drugs or whatever it might be.

So my question is to you is how did camping in your car help you.

Honestly, I had some sense of security in my vehicle.

It was my it belonged to me.

Did it delay you getting the proper interven intervention, possibly?

I think it allowed me to process what was happening to me because I was alone and wasn't sure how to present it to the I know I I looked at that picture that you had where the two different images were the one where you were before and the one after.

Within two years, right.

And that's from dealing with living in a car.

That's from homelessness.

That's exactly right.

So I the issue, the issue is really about trying to get you the right services quickly as possible.

We need to do a better job in doing that.

We don't need to be people relying on camping in their cars.

We need to get them to the right places.

And it sounds like you found the right places.

You you you you found a friend that you confided in and said, hey, I'm struggling, and you are allowed to get a place to stay.

Um I again, it gets back to that isolation and loneliness thing.

I'm really struggling here because I don't want we we all need community.

We all need one another.

We we need to engage, and our tendency is to hide it.

Our tendency is to kind of like find our own solution, like pull ourselves up by our bootstraps type thing, right?

There's something in us about that.

But the truth is we need one another.

And we have to find mechanisms that allow people to reach out to one another.

We don't want to encourage things that promote isolation and loneliness.

That is my biggest concern.

I can't support anything that allows the continuization of isolation and loneliness.

That is our surgeon general said our number one killer is isolation and loneliness.

And I don't want to see anybody get put into that space.

And so my fear is that when you camp in your car, you ignore all the other possible outcomes that you could be approaching.

And when you finally found that help, you look great now.

I mean, you've you've made it, right?

So that's where I'm kind of struggling with this whole thing.

I I understand your situation, and I I'm so happy that you've able to get your life turned around.

But again, I can't support anything that promotes isolation and loneliness.

That's my biggest challenge here.

So, but I want to really thank you for coming forward.

Yes, and may I speak, sir?

Sure, go ahead.

Yes, so it wasn't just my vehicle.

You know, staying with family, colleagues, and hiding, being mentally uh uh in crisis and not communicating, staying to myself also uh poses um uh you know uh the the emotional the imbalance and myself with the brain injury, but mostly individuals that have a harsher brain injury.

They it having a a TBI and the PTSD that comes with it or hypervigilance, you you're not you're not functioning very well.

You're not thinking of you know, where can I go?

You're looking down and I can't agree with you more.

I cannot agree with you more, but the last place I want those people to turn to is sleeping on a sidewalk or anything like that.

I is yes, we've got to get them to proper care.

We have to, as a community, work this out, right?

Boots on the ground in what I keep saying and pushing the OBIs.

It's not compassionate, it's not compassionate to let someone who's in that state just be thrown out and be able to just lay anywhere.

That's right.

We need to be getting them to services where they can get help.

We could go to them.

We go to that.

I totally agree with you.

That's what we need to be doing.

No question.

And right now we have a lot of people that are doing that.

We need more.

Yes.

And I I have to I have to kind of say we we we have a paid staff called our police that actually do that.

A lot of our police have a tremendous amount of compassion.

Yes.

I mean, our hot team is very, very sympathetic to this whole thing.

And they they have done some pretty good work, I think.

Yes.

Well, maybe it's then more would be interested in the OBIS that is through the state of Colorado Mind Source program.

Yeah.

It's a tool right where they are.

Puts them into a portal inside of the state of Colorado's resources, and then hopefully that would you know just bring a closer gap.

Absolutely.

I can't agree with you more.

We need more tools.

We need more programs that kind of work.

More things that demonstrate good outcomes.

Yes.

That's the thing.

I don't want to support something that doesn't have a good outcome.

There is a good solution.

I want good outcomes.

I I don't want I don't want just to kind of further this down the road, like kick the can type thing.

We've got to be addressing this issue head on.

We are homelessness increased last year, didn't decrease.

So we're not doing things right.

Yes.

So we gotta figure out how to do things right.

Thank you for coming forward.

Yes, sir.

Thank you also.

Next up, we have um Alicia Erickson, but we have Kristen Brown seating timers.

Kristen here.

Yes.

And you cede your time too, Alicia.

Okay.

Um Alicia, you have six minutes.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Alicia Erickson.

I'm a pastor here in Colorado Springs.

I'm also a board member of West Side Cares and a member of the Faith Table.

And I have a video that we are going to show this morning.

I am ceding my time to share Christopher's story.

This is Christopher and his dog Maddie May.

Edie met and befriended them while she was experiencing homelessness.

Christopher is a homeless veteran with a brain injury who struggled to find help here in Colorado Springs.

I've still seen a shitty on some glass.

Trying to let my dog pull off if it's too hot to be getting too long with her.

And I have to I get told that I have to leave.

Otherwise, I'm losing her all my stuff.

Lose her all my stuff or walk with her in the in the heat and risk having her dying.

Because some code enforcement, a lady wants to go around the life.

She doesn't like homeless people.

She doesn't want them in her town.

So she wants to do whatever she thinks is necessary to get rid of them because in her book, the ends justify the means, even though the means are stepping all over my civil liberties.

But you're not just a homeless person.

You're a veteran.

Yes.

Yes.

I I don't go where go around wearing that on my sleeve, but yes, I I do.

You know, I don't talk myself up.

I don't go around shouting, hey, I don't steal, you know.

I mean, I just I want people to see my actions and judge me, not judge me for something somebody else has done or some stereotype they see me because I have a damn backpack.

You know what I mean?

When I was overseas, I had a backpack all.

You know, it's since I've been back.

I've had a hard time dealing with society.

Uh PTSD has a big part to play in that.

Um, I've recently done a lot of work on it to try to.

I don't have a brain injury, T V.

TBI, PTSD are just two of the ones I have, yes.

Um the PTSD, I used to wake up screaming and pissing myself in the nightmares.

Unless I drank myself into a program.

Have you found any TBI resources in Colorado Springs at all?

No.

I haven't.

Um I've not like I've looked, but I brought it up with people in places where you think if there was, they'd say, oh, here's this, and nobody's doing anything like that to me.

I don't know.

I always bring it up.

People ask me stuff like that.

So I can't remember anybody saying anything about some diamond resources.

Make it easier to find the resources and remember the belt and grab, you know.

Like I can just get caught up in so many other things, the dailies of the day of life.

Uh so many things are necessary.

Um not unintentionally.

The mission downtown, they they allow pets.

They want me to put my service on you in the kennel with pets.

Yeah.

I I I didn't, I don't stay there because of that.

Unless you're in the front in there, the whole place is just a joke.

To me, it looks like it does nothing for keeping.

You know, um, not even looking at your body.

And they get tied to that area right there.

They're just stuck in the pattern.

Holding patterns just repeating the same things every day, not getting farther ahead.

Um, which I thought is why that place was there.

Has learned that Christopher was ticketed and put in jail while he was in jail, his belongings were taken, and his only life support, his best friend and service dog, Maddie May, was euthanized.

Um, so the only thing that I would like to add to this is um just on my own uh for the last two minutes.

Instead of criminalizing poverty, um, until we have the resources, the number of resources, and the capacity of resources to actually meet the high number, as you pointed out, the number of homeless people living in Colorado Springs in our area has grown.

And until we have the resources that are sufficient to meet the need, I would ask you to not criminalize homelessness until we have the resources to actually meet the needs.

Um, instead of giving people a criminal record.

So thank you very much.

Councilman Donaldson.

Yeah, thank thank you, Madam President.

I just want to thank you, ma'am, for being here today.

I want to point out that this uh ordinance, which we're gonna vote on today, really in no way um would have changed anything with this gentleman who was in in the video.

He wasn't in a vehicle.

Uh as we point as I've pointed out, the ordinance just combines what is our rules currently.

It just puts them in one place, makes it easier for uh officers who need to cite someone, uh, just makes it uh clearer.

Um actually that's the that's the first part of what I was gonna say.

I I don't really recall the second part.

So uh so thanks.

Thank you, madam president.

Next up we have Deborah Stillan.

Donna Wentz.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Sorry.

Good morning, council members.

I'm a member of Sacred Heart Catholic Church on Colorado Avenue.

Two and a half years ago, we teamed up with the sanctuary church to help provide showers for unhoused residents.

Shower to the people is among many ministries that reflects a shared commitment to addressing unmet needs in our city.

Thanks to private donations, partnering nonprofits and businesses, and a group of very dedicated volunteers.

We see an average of 25 to 30 shower guests on each Tuesday and Thursday.

Some are working, some are living in vehicles, some are turned away because the line is too long.

We've tracked nearly 4,000 showers on weekdays alone since beginning our collaboration with the Sanctuary Church.

As we get to know neighbors who are living on our streets, we begin to understand the obstacles that they face every day.

Disrupting their access to hygiene services and weakening the support system that we're helping to build.

Let's be clear.

This ban would increase homelessness and loss of life.

We understand the significant challenges caused by insufficient affordable housing and inadequate support systems.

We would like to work with you on creative solutions that could benefit the entire city.

Voting against this ordinance is a vote for finding solutions rather than adding to our city's problems.

Let's build a community where every resident has the chance to survive first, then rebuild, thrive, and give back.

This is very personal to me because 19 years ago I was homeless, and it was only by grace and many supports that I am now a homeowner and a successful business owner in Colorado Springs.

I'm giving back to my community by advocating for my friends who are living on our streets.

Thank you for your leadership.

Councilman Hindum.

Thank you.

Um Donna.

Donna.

Thank you.

I have a question for you.

Um thank you for your testimony.

You talked about the um efforts that your church, Sacred Heart in partnering with the Sanctuary Church.

Um I I am aware a bit about that service, and it provides showers, correct?

Showers and bathrooms for folks, so sanit sanitary um services.

Can you and I I think you're exactly right partnering and finding solutions to address some of these challenges.

Can you just say a little bit more about what that took and what those how those services are are supporting folks who are having to live on the street?

Sure in their cars.

Um well the the Sanctuary Church it began with a private donation that allowed the sanctuary church to renovate their carriage house into a shower house with four stalls.

I'm not sure how they manage it, but the sanctuary church covers the utility bills, the water, the trash, and the soap and the shampoo and the conditioner.

Uh our church, along with several other churches in our city uh have fundraisers and collect donations of socks and underwear so that each shower guest has something clean that they can put on after the shower.

Um Westside Cares uh has a partnership with uh a local laundromat, so every Thursday we're able to hand out laundry vouchers for a single load uh at that laundromat.

And there are numerous other uh services within the city that overlap to ministries, churches, nonprofits collaborating, for example, the food pantry so that when they come to uh take a shower, they can also get food.

And yeah, was it answer everything?

I just I just wanted the opportunity to because I know that's uh a lot of effort that happens three times a week with a lot of people, a lot of cost and um in serving uh again this population.

So I appreciate you sharing that.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Next up we have Randy Cloud.

Madam President.

Oh, Councilman Donaldson?

It's not a question, so I I do want to thank the last speaker for speaking, but uh I just want to point out that this ordinance in no way restricts um showers or or helping uh homeless individuals with uh you know personal hygiene or or uh using uh laundromats.

So I just want to point that out.

These are two separate things.

Thanks.

Councilman Lineweber.

Yeah, I also want to point out that um and and I want to be clear.

This ordinance has nothing to do with criminalizing homelessness.

Um it regulates camping on public land.

That's the difference.

We're it's important.

Um there's an important difference between the legal and moral distinction between status and conduct.

That's really important here.

Okay, and basically we don't want the Boy Scouts camping on public land.

We don't want unregulated camping.

We don't have, there's not proper bathroom facilities, hygiene, trash.

There's all these issues that happen around that from a public standpoint.

So it's more about being consistent about standards that we our city wants to embrace.

I was just in Argentina, Buenos Aires.

And that city is not a wealthy city.

Not by any means.

But there was no homelessness.

Zero homelessness.

And you have to ask the question, why?

And it's because they have found other ways to reach those people and help them.

We haven't been willing to do that.

We don't even have a single place.

We don't have a single piece of public land.

No, wait.

We don't have a single piece of private land that allows people to camp on.

We haven't done that yet.

Why hasn't someone stepped up and done that?

Okay.

Those are the bigger questions to ask.

We just can't allow unregulated camping on public land.

It's that simple.

We're talking about again, we're not talking about people's status.

We're talking about a conduct that has affected our communities, our neighborhoods, and the safety of our kids.

That's what I'm very concerned about.

Mr.

Clout.

Thank you.

I have a statement from Bishop Hannifin, who served 19 years as the first bishop of the diocese of Colorado Springs when it was established in 1984.

He's now retired and continues to counsel parishioners, hold retreats, and care deeply about the people of our city.

In the Brook Book of Proverbs, we read where there is no vision, the people are unrestrained, but happy is he who keeps the law.

Proverbs verse, chapter 29, verse 18.

I have a vision that would serve our community and grant dignity to our vehicle residence neighbors.

It would be an area similar to a trailer park where facilities would be available and security would be provided.

People would be responsible for upkeep of the area and could be charged on an ability to pay pay basis.

This would enable our community to provide this kind of housing and allow those who need this assistance to live with dignity.

Let's embrace them, not erase them.

Thank you so much for listening, Bishop Richard Hanniphan, Bishop Emeritus of Colorado Springs.

Thank you.

And in the few seconds I have remaining from my personal standpoint, I own some large plots of land on the east side of town next to Sand Creek and the West Fork Creek.

And I have over the years had so many campers on my property, and I do currently.

I've I've uh bought so many dumpsters to clean up the area, and I see both sides of the of the issue.

We need a solution.

We we definitely need uh an effort that bears fruit, and and what Bishop Hanafan is suggesting here is uh is a fruit bearing option.

Uh I really like that uh we can we can provide housing uh to our vehicle residenced people by having an area where we could we could help.

Thank you.

Welcome.

Next up, we have Jenna Lopez, Rob Campbell.

Um before my time starts, can I inquire something?

Can you can I ask a question before my time starts?

It's it's in your time.

Go ahead and ask.

I didn't um that I if anybody would like to cede me their time, I'd I'd appreciate it because I I have a feeling I have way more than three minutes of stuff I would like to say.

Um to start, uh kind of paraphrasing uh the council member there, um you words were um you want to make it easier for law enforcement to manage these people.

Absolutely outrageous.

Um of our biggest resources in the city for homeless is uh what uh the rescue mission, and the place is disgusting, it's ran by security guards.

I did my intake with a security guard.

How demeaning is that surrounded by security guards, it was absolutely ridiculous.

And there was nowhere to park.

There was nowhere to park.

They're not helping, they're not helping that.

I look around this room, I look more homeless than anybody in here, in my opinion, and I'm proud of it, and I'm proud to speak up for the homeless.

And I spent 21 months on the waiting list to get in a low-income housing, and I lived in my vehicle the entire time.

And if you think uh if it as you were saying, if you're just consolidating everything in the one spot, then what's the point?

I'll tell you the point.

The point is so officers have more control over the public that don't want to be bothered.

You you refuse to open the um bathrooms, you continue to close more, even take away the porta potties from the homeless.

It's ridiculous.

And if you don't think the police and law enforcement is gonna find ways to put people in jail for 10 days, it's gonna happen.

You can answer this guy probably.

And if you look at it from an enforcement standing, if I shade all my windows up in my vehicle and you can't look in, then you can't even accuse me or have probable calls till I live in there.

The only way you'd be able to do that is you'd have to tail me and stalk me, and that's what would happen.

If you want to get rid of these people that park in front of your houses and let people let their dogs use the bathroom, then go down there and write them some tickets.

You know, and this hot team group of people, they're not these old might mighty compassionate people that you think they are.

Because I've seen them pick up people's property and throw it right in the dumpster, and they do it, it's sanctioned.

It's the way you guys work.

So if anybody would like to uh give me three minutes, I'll be happy to take three more.

That's done at the beginning in the process.

I had no way knowing.

I've never spoken a meeting like this before.

Well, thank you.

Next up, we have Tim Close.

And Madam President, if I could uh I just like to clarify, I wasn't the way it was said was uh I was saying it would make it easier to manage these people.

Uh what I meant to say is that currently, well, that isn't what I said.

What I was trying to express is that currently we have several different ordinances that cover public camping.

Like if you're near Creek, it's one.

If you are on uh city property, it's another.

If you are on private property, it's another.

And I think there is one more that I'm skipping over.

And what happens is sometimes a uh a hot team member will fill out will cite the wrong ordinance because the person was uh uh he thought he was violating one of these, but it was really the other.

So part of this, what this will do, the ordinance which we'll vote on today is unify that.

So there's none of that.

It's basically a paperwork confusion to get rid of that.

The car camping part is new.

That part's new.

But the other stuff is it's really just a uh cleanup to make it more efficient.

So uh and then a couple other things.

The port of potties I I run uh from uh the Edmondson trailhead up off of Woodman.

Multiple times I've I've called uh parks because it has been vandalized.

Uh uh, and it was disgusting.

I have the photographs of human feces all on the inside of it and uh graffiti.

That's part of what is happening with uh the port of potties in the city.

Part of it's a money shortage, but part of it is they get vandalized.

And so um that's important, important to know.

And as far as you know, you can shade your windows up so no one can see inside.

I believe that's a violation of of our city code.

There's a certain amount of tint you're allowed to put on the windows.

You can't make it black so that police can't absolutely see in there.

So that's inaccurate also.

Thank you.

Good morning, council members.

My name is Tim Close, and I serve as the executive director of Family Promise of Colorado Springs.

For nearly 30 years, our organization has served families in this community who are experiencing homelessness.

We provide eviction prevention, rental assistance, temporary shelter, and stabilization services that help families return to stable housing.

I'm here today to ask you to carefully consider the unintended consequences of the proposed camping ordinance, particularly as it relates to families living in their vehicles.

I want to begin by acknowledging something important.

The concerns raised by business owners and residents are real.

Communities deserve safe and uh functional public spaces, but policy decisions carry sis systemic consequences beyond their intended uh beyond their immediate intent.

And I believe this ordinance risks deepening problems that we all ultimately want to solve.

Even when, even within the couple of months since this ordinance was proposed, family promises received numerous shelter applications from families who are living in their vehicles.

And let's be clear, these are families that are not choosing to be homeless.

They are parents who are experiencing who experienced a sudden life disruption, job loss, medical debt, divorce, or a rent increase they simply cannot absorb.

Many are employed.

Their children attend school here in Colorado Springs.

They're doing everything possible to remain safe, stay together, and work their way back to housing.

During earlier testimony, I heard concerns that some individuals and families often refuse services when approached by law enforcement.

For families in particular, I would respectfully offer another perspective.

Often this is not a rejection of help.

It's fear.

Fear of systems they don't understand and they are they feel are threatening, fear of losing control over already fragile circumstances, and most significantly fear that seeking assistance might lead to losing their children.

For many families, their vehicle represents their last vestige and piece of stability.

It's moving, uh it's how they get to work, it's how their children continue attending school, and it's how many sustain any semblance of dignity while navigating an increasingly difficult situation.

This ordinance may create clear enforcement tools, but enforcement without viable alternatives resists risks moving families further away from stability rather than toward it.

When families are already struggling, facing fines, legal consequences, or financial burdens they cannot overcome, the result is rarely compliance.

More often it becomes greater and deeper instability, making housing, employment, and recovery even harder to achieve.

This is a broken system, not a solution.

I would encourage the council to look beyond managing aesthetics and instead focusing on lasting outcomes.

Families experiencing crisis do not need additional penalties.

They need access to solutions that prevent family unity, support stability, and create realistic pathways back into housing.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Beth Ralstad.

Good morning.

Beth Rolstead.

Thank you for having me today, Counsel and President Crow.

I appreciate it.

I am the CEO of Homeward Pikes Peak, and I'm here today to express concerns about this ordinance.

I expressed these concerns also back in November when this was first proposed.

I appreciate that council took the time to pause the vote so that we could come together as a city in a community to discuss solutions.

There have been no solutions brought forward in this intermediate time.

And that's what concerns me as a service provider in this community.

We have a homelessness problem that is growing, and we have a supply problem of services that is stagnant.

That stagnation is due to problems such as investment from our city of Claro Springs and the reductions of funds from our state government and our federal government.

How are we going to address imposed ordinance that will increase the demand on services without actual solutions on the other side of this issue?

I request that our cities look at other ways to invest time and resources into solutions.

Where is the conversation on rapid rehousing solutions?

Where is the conversation on permanent supportive housing solutions?

We have had closure of one of our emergency shelters for youth.

The Salvation Army, thankfully, is able to incrementally increase some of their family shelter, and the Springs Rescue Mission is a solid and good resource.

It is not the answer to homelessness in this community.

And Mr.

Lineweber, thank you for addressing Argentina.

I believe that one of the benefits that Argentina has is universal health care.

Access to health care is a prevention tool for people express experiencing homelessness.

We have problems with the lack of psychiatric doctors in our community to prescribe solutions for individuals.

Our recovery programs are redlining in our ability to serve individuals of all status, homeless or housed.

We do not have enough solutions on the other side of this equation, and I ask you to address that as a city.

Thank you for your time.

Councilman Meinmiller.

So I talked to some people in Argentina about why don't I see people camping on the streets and on that sort of thing.

And they say, because we don't tolerate drugs, period.

People that deal with drugs go to jail.

Period.

There's no toleration.

And because of the lack of drugs, it's really made it where you just don't have that part.

One of the things that is difficult here is I know you've been deeply involved with the downtown partnership program, the clean and safe program, which has really been having some great success, I believe.

But there's still a fundamental challenge with that.

Matter of fact, we might not even be here today if we didn't have ways of dealing with those that are very visible on the street because those folks are the ones that are kind of making everyone nervous about being downtown or being in parks or being wherever.

But we don't have good competency laws to really address those things.

And we don't have facilities that can handle and take care of those people.

And those people are the ones that are cycling through more and more, and we're putting so much expense into just a few folks that we don't have enough resources for the other folks that we're talking about.

Diversion policies, all that kind of stuff.

We need to find better ways of addressing the ones that are in serious chronic homelessness.

And I wanted you to kind of address that kind of issue because you didn't really get to the really the core is that is that you don't want to the 10%, you know.

Sure.

It's um I've been in this work for almost 10 years and a social worker for 25 years.

It is really hard to um put people in buckets or boxes of how many people are severely mentally ill and how many have situational depression or things like that.

Yes, um, our community struggles with helping individuals with severe mental illness because of uh the lack of resources.

To get into the state mental health hospital, you need to really be involved in the the criminal justice system, and individuals who are experiencing homelessness who may have uh serious mental illness uh do not rise to the top to commit a crime that is so egregious that they get into the state um federal or the state mental health hospital.

I have been in conversations with local service providers such as Diversus Health.

They would love to step into this.

Where is the investment from our public entities to create real solutions?

It is very expensive to create partial hospitalization or full hospitalization programs.

And that you mentioned um individuals' uh competence.

You know, we cannot right now, thank God we have a constitution and civil rights for each of us.

We cannot deem people incompetent and send them to uh an institution right now.

We need to fully test out their ability to participate in their care.

We need to do that, and we need to do it humanely in in our community because you know, we need um individuals to be in a place where other family members and friends can be a part of their care team.

You know, I just had a really amazing instance happen at our Bloom recovery home this week, where a young woman experiencing homelessness and some criminal charges in another state asked to be transferred here to our bloom house because this is where her family is.

She's in recovery, she hopes to graduate from our program in a couple of months, and she knows she needs to be with support systems to help her finish her process and become stable.

That's what people experiencing homelessness need.

They need programs and family and friends to come around them.

Where is our community coming around homeless individuals to be solution focused rather than criminal justice focused?

Well I cannot agree with you more.

I mean, absolutely we need all those programs, but we have to deal with what we have.

So currently, and this is just hard to even say currently our mental health hospital is our county jail.

And I hate to say that, but that's the truth.

And when people get put in jail, they actually get help.

Oh, I no, they do, they get the right medication.

Yes, I've I've met with Sheriff Royball recently, and they do have about one-third of their population do have a um a diagnosis that they have either mental health problem or a substance abuse addiction.

But it takes at least 30 days to get through that system to get to a care professional in the jail.

And um, council member Donaldson said that this ordinance might create an opportunity for a 10-day jail stay.

You are not going to get access to health care in the jail within those first 10 days.

They do not have the manpower to do it.

So the issue though is that we need to find ways of getting more programs.

And I think that is what we mutually agree on.

Yes.

My issue is that I can't I can't humanely say that it's good for people to camp outdoors in those environments.

I've seen those environments.

I witnessed a guy, I'll name as Bob, who lived underneath a bridge close to my business.

And churches brought him food, water, all that.

He sold that for drugs.

He lived underneath that bridge for almost two months.

He created a rat population of about 40 rats, according to the hot team.

They told me it was unsafe for me to be anywhere near that.

And they try to convince him to come into a program or whatever, but he wouldn't move on his own.

He wouldn't move until he died.

I I that's very sad.

And that's the thing.

That's inhumane.

It is.

And why aren't we talking about a safe parking option?

You and I sat in a meeting a couple of weeks ago with service providers and city staff and DHS staff, and we said, all of us came to the agreement that we need a safe parking program.

And um member of the city's administrative team said the mayor will not accept a safe parking initiative in this community.

I implore you to consider this works in other cities.

Why aren't we considering it here today?

I applaud retired Bishop Hanafend for calling out that as a solution.

I do believe a safe parking program proposed by Ascending to Health Respite Care would be a credible solution for this small problem.

Of the 6900 people experiencing homelessness in the community, people living in their cars is a fragment of the population we are trying to work with.

I'm sorry, I'm all fired up.

Well, I know, and and and you got me too, because this is I mean, this is the toughest issue.

You know, I I just read a parks report, okay.

And a parks report was identifying what are the needs for our parks.

And you would think it'd be like new playground equipment or more trees or better sidewalks.

But in all six districts, not just a single district in all six districts.

The number one thing that came up about our parks is homelessness.

That but that tells you that homelessness is everywhere in our community because it's a universal problem.

We need to be addressing it with we're not doing the right things.

That's the point.

We're not doing the right things.

We are doing great things.

We do not have enough solutions to house everyone who needs services.

Well, we need to have better outcomes.

I agree.

We need to look at those programs and identify what programs are working.

Are the do they have measurable outcomes that are proving that we're really increasing or decreasing this effort and winning this battle?

And the other issue is that I've heard it's upward, it's greater than 50% of our homeless population is caught into drugs.

Yes.

And that's a big part.

And we have to have better detox programs and other things along those lines.

And criminal interventions to stop the drug dealing.

No question about it.

That's where we need kind of enforcement.

We need to have our police out there on, you know, on the streets helping with that kind of thing.

And they are.

We've increased our hot team.

And despite what everyone says, this is a tough situation.

It is.

And um and it you have to find the right balance between dignity and compassion.

And that is very, very difficult.

But again, I just struggle with the idea of allowing camping as part of the solution.

It is not the solution.

People deteriorate when they're isolated and alone.

We need better programs.

We need to elevate safe parking areas.

Absolutely.

That's what I want to see.

I don't know if the city should be running that.

I think I didn't ask for the city to run it.

I asked the city to allow it.

Oh, well, uh well, believe me, I will be voting 100% to allow it.

Okay.

We need to find organizations that will step up and the city wants to come alongside and support those.

Absolutely.

But we need to do it right and intelligently and all that.

And you agree with that totally.

So I think we need to move forward on that.

And I think the problem isn't whether or not we allow camping or not camping.

The problem is that we need better programs.

I think that the question might be as a society, do we allow homelessness to continue?

And what are we going to do to ensure that everyone has access to health care, housing, and resources to prevent future homelessness?

That's exactly the issue.

And that and ultimately that's about outcomes.

Right?

We we need to win this.

We need we don't we need to stop just throwing stopgap solutions.

We need to find a way to push us to find solutions to have great outcomes.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Councilman Hingem.

Uh thank you very much, um, Madam President.

And thank you, by the way, Madam President, for allowing this conversation.

I think it's a really, really critical one.

Uh, we're finding points of agreement, points of difference, but I think it's a conversation our community is very hungry to have.

Everybody in this room wants ultimately the same thing.

I really do believe that, and this is really important dialogue that we're having.

So thank you, Madam President.

And I'm gonna weigh in quickly on Buenos Aires.

We also need to recognize that they have about 700,000 people living in favelas or slums.

So they may not be on the street looking homeless, but they are living in conditions without sanitary services.

The last thing I want to actually ask you, Beth, and give you the opportunity.

I attended a launch you provided last week for a service.

You were asking about services and providing more services.

Homeward Pikes Peak, your organization is in fact launching a very particular service that is going to start in the downtown area.

I want to give you the chance, and I'm holding up your QR code to speak briefly about how this will help serve in at least our downtown area for now.

Thank you, Councilmember Henchum.

Yes, I'm very excited that we are launching the Give Help Get Help Street Outreach Services Web based tool.

This allows individuals in our community downtown at first, because it's a pilot.

We need to manage our manpower.

That an individual, a community member could witness someone that they uh uh guess is experiencing homelessness and needs resources.

And we invite the community member to uh scan this QR code and submit a concern for that person that they see sleeping on a park bench, sleeping in a doorway, slumped on a against a tree, and we can deploy a street outreach team, those trained mental health providers to go and work with that person to uh assess and to provide resources and help engage them into services.

Our um police officers, uh we know our our police department is down a hundred officers.

We need to decrease the demand on law enforcement and get targeted help to individuals experiencing homelessness.

I'm hoping that this um outreach intervention tool will do that, decrease burden on the police and connect individuals experiencing homelessness more quickly to resources so we can connect them to solutions.

Thank you, Beth, and thank you for your service and for all the service providers.

And I'm sorry and regret that we did not include you early on in the very beginning of the conversation around this ordinance.

Thank you.

Councilman Donaldson.

Thanks, Madam President.

Thank you for being here, Beth.

Um, you know, initially at the beginning of your comments, I think you were focusing on hey, if you do this, you're we don't have the resources to service this uh group of people if they can't stay in their vehicles.

That's kind of the flavor I got from it.

At the end, I heard you say that the the ones in the vehicles are a small portion of the problem.

And that's what I think.

I don't think there are, I think it's uh in 25 uh the hot teams, uh, CSPD made contacts for car camping of roughly a hundred, I think it's a little bit over a hundred citations.

Some of those are the same vehicle multiple times.

So I don't believe if we if I believe this was going to flood people in and overwhelm uh services, SRM and others.

I would I would pause on it.

I don't think that's the case.

And we have asked those questions of CSPD, the hot teams, our attorneys, how many how many uh citations do you really think will be issued, et cetera.

The numbers are relatively small.

So I wanted to say that because uh you you raised that issue.

Um, and I would say one of the positives of this whole thing is it is forced a uh re-examination of what we're doing in Colorado Springs by saying that we're not going to allow, we're gonna we're gonna start citing people.

Uh we're gonna have a law against living in vehicles.

So I think it's been positive for that reason.

And it may take, you know, I've seen this somewhere else, a push and a pull.

The ordinance pushes people to go ahead and accept uh treatment or to admit it, mention it to a fan a family member or friends that you know what, I don't have an apartment anymore.

I need somewhere to live, rather than just trying to do it on your own in your vehicle.

So again, thank you.

Thank you for being here today.

Thank you.

May I respond a little bit?

Well, honestly, I think we're we're ready to be very late.

We are.

Okay, I understand.

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Beth.

We do appreciate your perspective and everything you do.

I know I do.

Next up, we have Rabbi Pillsbury.

I'm Rabbi Aya Pillsbury.

I'm the rabbi of Temple Bay at Torah.

I'm also involved with Colorado Springs faith table.

We were here just a few months ago talking about this very same issue.

I don't know how everyone here is not in tears right now thinking about the world that all of us created.

All of us, and you in particular, have an even more of a privilege and a responsibility to help fix it.

This is our city, and we elected you to make it as amazing as possible for every single person.

Whatever our faith tradition is, I have yet to come across a single one that doesn't value humanity, the soul, the gift that we give to the world just by being and contributing.

And we all know that the more opportunities we have to contribute, the easier it is to do.

And when we're on the margins, there is an extra left to give.

Each of us is only one crisis away from living on our in our cars if we are so lucky to have a car.

I have two little kids.

I have nightmares about that.

About I had to explain to my three-year-old this morning when I dropped him off at daycare where I was going and what I was doing.

And he was just like, wait, what?

Why don't people have homes?

And I had to explain that.

We created a world where people don't have homes.

And you keep saying how we all want the same things.

So let's solve it.

Let's use our taxes from marijuana and cigarettes and alcohol and all the things that are not great for us and use it to help everybody.

Let's take the safe parking initiative seriously.

And let's also be more fiscally responsible.

Ten days in jail?

Re-traumatizing people?

Like that's the best use of our city's funds.

Imagine how much money if we just spent that amount on homelessness, on housing, on resources, on kids who are being traumatized, being scared that their parents aren't gonna come home.

Our world would be way better.

And we could solve some of these issues.

We could be here celebrating how great Colorado springs us, reminding ourselves that we are the perfect size city to take care of everybody.

So please look in the mirror, think about why you chose to serve, and find a way to serve everybody.

These are our children, our spouses, our siblings, our parents, our grandparents.

Let's do the right thing.

Thank you.

Next up, we have Susan Boldeck.

Um, I have Avon Dokson seating time.

Is that correct?

Yes.

Um, to Susan.

Okay.

Um, so Susan, you have six minutes.

Good morning, counselors.

Um, I'm opposed to the camping ban, but I want to say that I appreciate our police department and all the work they do.

And I know that they're looking for more in tools to help them handle some of the problems that come up.

What I don't understand is why can't we have a more targeted approach that um criminalizes behavior and not an entire demographic?

Um we have homeless families with more than 1600 kids in our schools, a growing population of homeless seniors, young workers, and entry-level professionals who cannot afford shelter in our city.

We have an estimated 8100 homeless people in our county.

Camping bans shift resources from solutions to enforcement.

There's over 150 of them in the country since the Supreme Court ruling.

But there is no empirical evidence that it either reduces homelessness or reduces crime.

Um yet, these bans create significant harm in not only for the homeless person, but in the community.

Court fees, uh, fines, arrest records, or incarceration create barriers to stable housing and employment.

We all know how difficult it is to become employed when you've had an encounter with the police.

And it often prolongs this uh cycle of homelessness because it puts all these barriers in the way.

And when displaced or fearing legal violations, people's lives become more unstable, moving further away from services, work, children's schools, and their support systems.

When their vehicles or belongings are confiscated, they often lose the legal documents that they need to exit homelessness.

They lose medicine, working gear, and protection from the elements.

Homeless people are also at greater risk for criminal uh for being the victims of crimes and violence, and they are less likely to support uh report these crimes if they're afraid of punitive damages.

So it can create additional safety risks.

The truth is we do not have enough houses or services to move people out of homelessness.

In our in our city, we are currently short by almost 2100 supporting housing, transitional housing, which is the way that homeless people exit that homeless cycle.

Making it a crime to be homeless when there aren't enough places to go may be legal, but it doesn't solve the problem.

And it's not a moral decision that respects the dignity of our neighbors.

Right now in our community, there are people exploring the options for a safe parking, private safe parking.

Why don't we postpone this and allow we have a great community?

Allow our community to come together and find solutions that aren't creating so much harm.

Thank you.

Councilman Donaldson.

Yeah, thanks, Madam President.

This isn't a question.

It's just uh I want to address a couple things that were said there.

Um it is not a crime to be homeless.

And ma'am, and it won't be a question, so you can sit down if you like to.

But when you started off, you said, why don't we why don't we have um laws that uh that criminalize behavior, right?

Uh not a group of people.

That's exactly what this does.

This says that we won't allow people to live in vehicles.

That that action, not being homeless.

If I decide, you know what, I don't like paying rent, I'm gonna go live in my vehicle for a while.

I would receive the same treatment.

It's not, please.

It is it is not about a group of people, it's about a specific behavior, exactly what you asked for.

And we receive requests for this from citizens, and while I'll read part of one, and you'll see exactly what he's complaining about.

Vehicles will not be um seized or taken as part of this ordinance.

That doesn't happen.

It's not a possible consequence of this ordinance.

No, no, it won't.

Um be seized.

So, and that's true, they'll be left in the vehicle unless it's something illegal, like drugs, guns, things like that.

If we're not gonna do that.

Now, well, I I don't want to have a debate.

I think we're gonna have, are we gonna have a presentation, Madam President, or not on this later on?

Or are we just gonna have citizen comment today?

If they are prepared for one, I don't think we're prepared for one.

And we've already done this in a lunch and a work session.

Yeah.

We've already done the presentation, so we will not have one today.

So very briefly, again, if someone is is uh in a vehicle and there's stuff outside of it, it makes it uh appear that they're living in the vehicle, um, and there's things in the ordinance that um would suggest that.

They would receive a warning the first time, told you if you're not you have to move, you move on.

This is your initial warning.

Um, you know, if that vehicle is still there and they have a move, they could receive it's a possibly they could receive a citation.

If they're if that vehicle is found again uh with that behavior, as you asked, not the fact that the person is homeless, but apparently camping out of the vehicle, they could receive a citation, and the the officer has discretion on that.

If they explain to him, you know what, I have an apartment tomorrow.

I'm gonna I'm gonna move into that apartment.

The officer doesn't have to cite them.

Um and so the reason we have this is because I'll read to you, we have citizens complaining about this, and we need to have an orderly uh city.

We can't have people just uh pulling up in front of your house and and uh tying their dogs up and uh defecating uh in the in the alley behind it.

No, actually, if there's an RV parked in the street, it can be ticketed, and if you talk to Sam, he'll explain.

Well, he'll he'll get the uh information from you, and we can report that to code enforcement.

RVs aren't allowed to park on the streets.

RVs have to be parked in someone's driveway.

So, and again, see that's a perfect example.

This isn't about you're homeless, you're not homeless.

We don't allow RVs to park on the street except to load and unload.

And regardless if the guy is a billionaire, you can't park his damn RV on the street.

So that's all, Madam President.

Thank you.

Councilman Hindum.

Uh, thank you, Madam President.

I think it would be helpful to hear from the attorney that in fact cars can be impounded.

The police may not have done that very often, but it is a possibility.

It's also really clear that people understand that this does make sleeping in your car ultimately, it is potentially a jailable offense.

So let's make no mistake about it, that the law may be interpreted by police individually and in ways that are very compassionate, but the law makes those things possible.

And I would ask, please, for the attorney um to speak up and say, can a car be impounded via this ordinance ultimately?

There are fines associated with this ordinance.

Good morning, Council Emily Vandenberg, the city attorney's office.

Uh under the ordinance itself, the camping ordinance, a vehicle can't be impounded.

That's not going to happen under the camping ordinance.

If it is there in violating our parking ordinances, um, and under the parking ordinance, it's already in place, it's not before council today.

It could be impounded, towed after about 72 hours.

Generally speaking, that is not the practice, and that's not what our hot team is looking to do.

Um, so it's not gonna happen under the camping ordinance.

And you can be jailed, yes, ma'am, up to 10 days as one potential sentencing option in uh a camping case.

And you can be fined.

You could be, yes.

Okay, up for $300.

But if you could, Emily, but since you're since you're up there, is that something we do in cases of uh homeless people?

We we give them fines of hundreds of dollars?

Uh no, sir.

In fact, state law um and our own ordinances prohibit us from collecting fines from people who are indigent.

They could be imposed, but we cannot collect, we cannot do anything to enforce collection if somebody is indigent.

Um the court will make a finding of that, and that's it.

Thank you.

Next up we have Pastor Dan Holt.

Thank you, Council members.

Um, I'm Pastor Dan Holt.

I'm uh in Council District 5.

Uh my church is a central Lutheran Church.

I've served there about 27 years now, and uh I want to speak against this ban.

I'm also a member of Faith Table, and I my my concern is uh just the further entanglement.

A lot of people have said and have more interest and uh understanding than I do, but I I hear in this a further entanglement for people, particularly around parking uh through this ordinance, regulation, however you want to say it with the the legal system.

And I do have concerns for that, and I I wish uh we could find, as we all agree, better solutions and spend more energy on those things uh versus finding ways to impose uh yet uh even more teeth of regulation ordinances and finally involvement in the uh legal system because it is burdensome, it is a problem for them, and they may not know that these fines can't be collected, but indeed uh they they'll live with that anxiety of where all that is at.

And uh again, the the hope for us is as Jesus said, we do to the least of these, we do to others.

And I understand there needs to be some boundaries for homeless people who are wrecking um potentially wrecking uh outhouses or uh uh uh that sort of thing or misbehaving in our downtown areas.

I no issues there, but uh again, uh further camping bans for people who are in really difficult situations situations is just not the way I see things, and I would speak against this.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Amber Woodside good morning, council members.

I had a prepared statement, but most of what I had prepared has been addressed by other speakers.

Um I'm going to address a couple of things that were said by council members instead.

I'm here today as a professional youth advisor and disability advocate.

I've spent most of my career doing national level policy advisement.

Um the first thing that I wanted to address is the idea that this ordinance is mostly a consolidation and not an expansion of definitions.

I don't find that to be true, having read the proposed like language.

It does expand the definition of what can prove that camping is present.

Presence of hygiene items, presence of food and water.

It that wasn't in the old language.

This is not merely a consolidation.

I also find it interesting that we're focusing so much on, oh, it's mostly a consolidation, but also the addition of vehicle camping.

Also, is vehicle camping a small enough problem that it hardly will register an impact?

If so, would the harm that's done by instituting it not outweigh whatever potential positive impact that we might see from it?

I also want to address the comments that have been made about how we are criminalizing behavior and not status.

That's true on its face, but we are criminalizing a status because where do you want people to go?

If they're not allowed to go into their vehicles, and I'm asking not for a long-term strategic answer.

I'm asking about tonight and tomorrow and next Friday.

Where do you want them to go?

And sure, maybe the Boy Scouts can't camp in public places, but they have a home to go to.

And finally, I would like to address.

I wrote it down, sorry.

Um, I do think it's very important that we address isolation and loneliness that comes from these circumstances.

How easy do you think it is to end your own isolation and loneliness when you have to go to your friends to your family and say, hey, by the way, I was in jail for 10 days.

Not just I I haven't been seeking help, I've been struggling with this.

I haven't sought help for this for so long that I ended up in jail, mom.

How are you supposed to do that?

How does that reduce isolation and loneliness?

It doesn't.

So those were the things that I wanted to address that I have heard today.

Thank you.

Linda Hillsbury.

Councilman Donaldson.

Yeah, thanks, uh Madam President, and some reasonable questions there.

Um where could someone go tonight?

Uh Springs Rescue Mission, uh, step COS, Salvation Army, or better yet, a friend's house, a co-worker's house, a relative's house, or apartment, um, or a church.

Any of those things.

And in the the example you gave where the person has to tell their mother, I wound up in jail for 10 days.

Here's a better scenario.

They're they they're living in their car, they're contacted by hot, they're getting the warning, but they continue to do it.

Uh, then they're cited.

At this point, they're being pushed, they have a citation.

It could result in jail.

They're being pushed to go ahead and admit to their to uh a friend, a parent that you know what, I'm actually homeless, I need help.

And this kind of goes to the isolation thing.

If they do that, uh, and and now they have a reason to, that we're not just allowing them to live in their car.

Um that would prevent it.

That would, I would almost bet would prevent uh 10 days in jail when they met with the uh uh the prosecutors and explained, you know what, I was living in my car, I'm now with my parents.

Um, I don't really even need to call the attorneys up here unless you want to hear it from them.

I suspect the attorneys would say, okay, then this is we're not gonna uh I don't know the proper legal terms, but we're essentially just gonna give you probation.

Uh you're doing what else can we help you with is what I what I would expect to come out of that.

So there's some answers.

Thank you, Madam President.

Linda Pillsbury.

Hi.

My name is Linda Goodman Pillsbury.

I live in Colorado Springs in Council District One.

I'm a licensed clinical social worker and have worked with homeless folks for much of my career.

I am part of Faith Table and Temple Bait Torah, and my outlook has been shaped by my Jewish faith and our understanding that for each of us, it is our responsibility to try and make the world a better place.

I'm speaking against the proposed camping ban.

I absolutely agree that our streets and sidewalks, parks and outdoor spaces need to be safe and clean for all to use.

I understand that there have been problems between people who have nowhere to live and residents and business owners.

And we absolutely need solutions.

But this ordinance does not provide solutions.

It criminalizes poor people and does nothing to actually address the problems of lack of bathrooms, lack of affordable housing, and lack of services.

Many people think that homeless people or the unhoused or poor people are different from us.

A few years ago, I had a homeless client, a woman in her 60s, who a few years before had a well-paying job, a nice apartment, health insurance, and savings.

Then she got sick when she used up all her sick time, her employer fired her, and she lost her health insurance.

She lived on her savings until it ran out, and then she lived in her car.

A man I worked with had owned a very nice house and had a very good job, but he lost the job and his wife divorced him, and he too became homeless.

Are these people, are these the people you want to throw in jail?

Or is it the mothers and children who have escaped abusive homes with the moms doing everything to protect the kids?

According to the city's housing needs assessment, there are more than 1,600 children in our schools that are homeless.

Not protecting your children is a crime.

And then fleeing to protect them, but having nowhere to go should be a crime.

So I'm against this ordinance on the merits, but I'm also against the lack of transparency.

This was developed without input from the city staff who deal with these issues, without input from the nonprofits who provide the services, and without input from the people, it would most burden.

Three months ago, the council voted to spend six months addressing these issues and trying to come up with solutions to these very real problems.

Why is this up for a vote now, three months early?

Has any effort been made to address these issues?

Or is the council looking for a quick fix that will not actually fix anything?

I urge the council to reject this ordinance and to instead engage in a meaningful process which will address the needs of both property owners and the unhoused.

I am only asking for the city council to be part of the solution and not part of the problem.

Thank you.

Councilman Lineweber.

It's it's really difficult when you talk about um moms with kids and um when you're dealing with people that are just having simple hardship.

But you have to come in the realities of looking at the other side of that equation.

It wasn't but a few years ago that a woman who was camping was assaulted, raped repeatedly under the Cimarron Bridge.

Um, the um, yeah, Cimarron uh bridge, left to die, and then raped some more while she was dead.

That happened because we tolerate camping.

We need to, it's not a safe place.

People shouldn't be in those predicaments.

We have to address it with better programs.

We need to not allow this.

It's it's not human dignity.

It to let someone just lie there.

We need to be coming up with programs and dealing with that.

Camping should not be in our community.

We should be taking care of these people.

And so, yes, we can talk about the victimization of moms with kids and and all that kind of stuff, but I can tell you I'm also very concerned about the public safety of these people who are made in the image of God and have tremendous value.

And allowing them as a community just saying, oh, it's okay, go camp.

No, it's not okay.

You need to find the right program.

You we need to kind of develop larger programs.

We need to address that issue.

That's what we need to be working on.

So we're talking about two different things here.

We don't need to allow this to be happening.

The amount of drugs and violence that's taking place in our camps is astronomical.

And if you had any time in speaking to our hot team, they have seen unspeakable things.

And we just can't tolerate that.

So that's the issue.

We can't allow these unsafe places to take place because I don't want I don't want my grandchildren to be playing in communities that aren't safe.

We need safety.

Bernardo Marty or is it Marty Bernardo?

Did I get a car?

Okay, that's not good morning.

Good morning.

Thank you for your time.

I'm glad that there are a lot of people here that are able to speak a lot more to the statistics because I instead want to use my limited time to tell you a brief story.

I want you to imagine your times in your life when you were forced to share your space with people you did not get along with.

Maybe you grew up with a sibling, a brother, sister, multiple, and you did not have privacy in those spaces until a certain age.

When you reached teenagehood and you started to reach into your adult years, maybe you had to change in public locker rooms where you all were together.

Maybe during college you were with roommates that you did not get along with for whatever reason.

I want you to remember how frustrated you were, how frustrating it was for everyone in those situations.

I want you to remember the fear of leaving your items unattended out in the public kitchen because they might get misused.

They might get broken, they might get lost.

I want you to remember having to share your wardrobe with your brother or sister.

You needed your uniform, you needed your clothing, and it was nowhere to be found.

There is an amount of privacy that is essential to being a human, is essential to dignity.

That I think when people are talking about isolation, they're missing the fact that humans do need an amount of privacy as well.

We deserve our own spaces to change and clean ourselves.

We deserve that same relief that you felt when you find owned your first apartment when you got your first house and you thought, ah, this space is mine.

I can relax and get comfortable here.

I can become familiar with my items.

That is the middle space that unfortunately a vehicle is all we really have when you cannot get an apartment, or you cannot get access, or you're in the queue waiting for your turn for the houseless resources that we have.

It's not that they don't exist, and it's not that they're not trying, it's that there is a long queue.

I believe you when you say that you care about these things very deeply, and that's why I am trusting you to vote no on this ordinance and give our community and give yourselves more time to give people the privacy they need to process their own trauma and to come to terms with themselves.

I do want help.

I'm ready for help.

If any of you have ever had an addiction in your family, an alcoholic, anything of the sort, you know that that person is not going to be helped until they're ready.

And they need the privacy and the dignity to be able to come to that conclusion.

I can tell a lot of you have been frustrated today because you feel push to vote against or for something.

Imagine being pushed to take health actions that you don't agree with because you don't get to stay in your vehicle.

Thank you for your time.

Cari Dahlin.

Thank you for this opportunity, council members.

Let me put my glasses on.

Let's see.

I'm writing to oppose the no camping ban extension that includes not being able to live in your vehicle for any amount of time.

You've talked about two days, 10 days.

In this case, I am pleading for your consideration of my son here in El Paso County, Colorado Springs area.

My son is doing everything he can to rebuild his life after serving his time for a past felony much earlier in his life.

Finding a place to live has proved to be very difficult, unbelievably difficult, because when they do a background check, they see a 10 or 12-year-old felony that has he's served the time.

He's met or he's met all the requirements of the court, and he's trying to put his life back together, and he um struggles to be able to find housing.

There are times when he has come and lived with me or with his father, and there are times when he has gone to couch surfing with friends, and nonetheless he has had periods of time where he ended up sleeping in his truck in a very um secluded area of Colorado Springs, but regularly policed.

Let me tell you that no matter what you're saying about it's gonna be a 10 day or excuse me, it's gonna be a couple days.

They get a warning, they whatever.

What happened to him is that he um someone came, a policeman came and saw that he was in his vehicle.

They looked at his record, they said he has a record.

We're sending him to jail right now because of his past record that he already served time for.

And then $30 a day until he gets out.

And if he's only, which would not be true, only impounded for 10 days, that's another $300.

He's not able to work, he's not able to contact his boss to let him know what's going on.

He's afraid that he'd lose this job if he did explain that to his boss, and he comes out of prison without a job.

He can't make money to pay the um expenses that are involved.

He had to go to court and he couldn't pay the court fees.

Um, and so he is put in jail again because he owes some money for the last time.

He would lose his job, he would lose his vehicle, and he would end up on the streets full circle back into homelessness.

So please, please think of my son.

Think of your children, think of your nieces and nephews or grandchildren.

Thank you.

Next up we have Councilman Donaldson.

Yeah, um, Madam President, could I have one of the attorneys uh just go up to the microphone?

I just have a couple questions about a situation like this.

Good morning, council.

My name is Chantel Withrow.

I'm the division chief of prosecution.

Chantel, if uh someone was even on the second occurrence, they've received a warning once, an officer comes to their vehicle uh because they've received a complaint from uh a citizen that hey, there's someone in front of my house, I don't know who it is, they're sleeping in their car, um, and they've been there for two days.

Um can they be arrested for violating the uh this this ordinance which we're proposing?

No.

Um you can only be cited and released on these particular ordinances.

You can be arrested if you have warrants or other cases that are not related to this particular incident.

Um so when police come in contact with an individual if they have an outstanding warrant or another matter that uh is is there on their record, they can be arrested, but they cannot be arrested initially when they're cited for this particular ordinance.

They are given a citation and a court date and released.

Okay, so in a situation like this where someone was immediately taken away.

Most likely there was a warrant for their arrest if if the facts are correct.

Something other than the the camping citation, yes.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, madam president.

No.

Next up, we have Alexis St.

Clair.

I'm ready.

Uh good morning, counsel.

Thank you for having us here to have our voices heard on this issue.

I'm here to speak in opposition to this new ordinance.

This is a direct attack on our community while failing to actually address any of the root causes of homelessness, putting our house neighbors into the courts and possibly jail for being unable to afford a home or pay rent when our city's rent prices are frankly out of control.

I understand that our city is on the verge of reaching a million people the next few decades.

I've heard our population's 500,000.

Yeah, and the county's 750,000 in the county might reach a million, we'll see.

And I've forgotten two decades.

I've forgotten the period, but the city isn't about to hit a million people.

Well, decades, I understand.

It's a long ways off.

We are building a lot of housing.

Unfortunately, all that housing is wildly expensive.

A one bedroom apartment for 1400, that doesn't seem like a solution to our housing crisis, does it?

And since we've spoken a lot about our El Paso County jail, which has been used effectively as a mental health hospital and soon to be a homeless shelter, an adequate one at that.

Let's talk about the cost of that.

Taxpayers pay $143 per person per bed in that jail.

Now, if we take out the portion that the state reimburses a $77, we of Colorado Springs still pay $66 per person per bed in that jail.

But it turns out that the bed in a homeless shelter costs around on average in Colorado 51 to $52 per person per night.

So the question I have to the council is why is it we're not investing in more beds in the shelters or safe parking programs rather than this pipeline from the street to the jail, all for being unable to afford our out of control housing costs.

And since the rest of what I said has been addressed very well by many other people, I did want to point out something uh that a member has stated, which was about the woman who was raped under a bridge.

It turns out, and you're not going to believe this.

If you're safely locked in your car, it's a lot harder to be raped or hurt or have your things stolen.

And I agree, something needs to be done to address the homelessness crisis in our city, but this isn't it.

I urge you to reject this ordinance.

Thank you.

Yes, madam president.

I was wondering if I could ask Amy quest uh Amy Cox a few questions.

Yes.

Amy You know you're not going to get away with not.

So I want to just identify how is the city contributing right now with taxpayer dollars.

So we have a couple of means.

One is what is direct taxpayer dollars, like what comes from the general fund.

So first of all, identify those, and then quickly, and because I know it's the HUD program is going to be really complicated, but but try to give some estimate to how much money you are helping care for or foster or push that we we do have resources that we're putting forward.

And I just want to bring those dollars to bear.

Yeah, uh thank you, Amy Cox, Chief Housing Homeless Response Officer.

Um, I'm gonna start with the general fund.

We're budgeted uh we have two staff, um, me and a housing solutions manager, and about half a million dollars in human services funds used to support the operations of largely uh shelters.

Um that's half a million dollars.

Um we also receive approximately five million dollars from the federal government through the CDBG, ESG, and home investment partnerships programs.

2.8 million is from CDBG, about 428,000 of that can be used for services.

Um, and we tend to invest those primarily in homelessness services, though we also often are asked to address food insecurity with 428,000 dollars.

We receive emergency solutions grant, 261,000.

Um, and 60 percent of those funds can be used for street outreach.

So we've been investing in Homeward Pikes Peak and some of the downtown outreach to the tune of about $156,000.

Um, the rest balance of our funds are generally invested in housing, and those are we provide gap funding for housing projects.

So, for example, if Silver Key is building a senior housing facility, we will typically invest about $500,000 to help support some of the fill some of the gap in their capital stack.

We have also in the past helped to fund the expansion of the Springs Rescue Mission.

So, you know, about a decade ago, we invested in that.

We have a portion of our community development block grant that could be spent for public facilities.

Um we also use those dollars though to invest in economic impact projects, economic development projects.

So it's not a lot of money, Mr.

Lineweber.

And we try and use it as wisely as possible.

No, we can't.

We are we're a low tax community.

Because there's there's areas like we didn't really talk about the amount of resources that are police departments putting into it.

We didn't talk about the amount of resources or fire departments putting into it.

We didn't talk about the you know the other departments that are all touching this in some shape or form.

So there's actually it's it's probably a bigger question because I think the reality is is I mean, we we we estimate somewhere around people have been about 8,000 people have been involved in homelessness in a given year.

Probably 1,200 is chronically homeless, roughly.

I mean, we don't really know well because we're not documenting or counting very well.

I mean, would you think that's like safe?

I uh um our last, I believe our last point in time count identified 600 people chronically homeless.

Um I I don't know where the question's headed though.

I think I'm gonna I don't know where we're going with it.

Well, no, I understand.

I'm just trying to identify.

So the the Springs Rescue Michigan did a study a while back, which I think you're familiar with, where it estimated a single person costs the city five, 50 50,000 a year because of all the different programs that they touch and stuff.

And so the reality is that there's a lot of expense here.

We just don't have enough resources to get to it all.

We've got to find out better solutions.

It's not so much maybe about programs.

We got to identify how do we use our dollars more efficiently and have better outcomes.

Is those are things are those things that that is that the direction we need to be going?

Do we need to throw more money at this, or do we need to get smarter about this?

I mean, I think it's a you know, this is a really tough this I I don't know that this is the purpose of this conversation right now for the vehicle habitation ordinance.

And so this puts me in a very, um just to say a very difficult situation because you're we're talking about a vision for how we would end homelessness in our community and what that requires in terms of services, behavioral health services, especially in those recovery services, housing, jobs, education, strong families, all of that is required.

And you know, we have a very small amount of money that we use to try and tackle all of that.

And so, you know, today, looking specifically when we try and when we are trying to address um a specific issue right now with the vehicle habitation, um, what we're trying to do with this is identify how do we make better connections?

How do we build a system in our community where there is a clear connection when somebody is encountered?

So that it isn't folks reading through long lists of services and making phone calls and hoping something is available.

How do we give our police department and our outreach workers the uh tools to actually help people make a meaningful connection?

And so we did meet with providers um a couple of weeks ago, Councilwoman Henjam, um, Councilman Line Weber were there to try and identify what those solutions were.

Providers overwhelmingly asked for safe parking.

That is something that is allowable in our code.

It is not something the city can fund.

It is not something we have resources to fund.

So that was identified as a solution.

Um we are looking at how do we how do we invest in more flexible dollars to prevent people from having to enter shelters in the first place?

And then, yes, how are we going to build a system where we can more effectively when people come into services and they come into the shelter, a shelter, any shelter, they can make an exit.

So this is a huge, this is a huge issue.

I'm very passionate about it.

I have been for many years.

Um it's it's always very concerning when it has to come here to sort of be debated.

Um, and how can we debate, how can we have those conversations in a more meaningful way in our community with our continuum of care and getting people to the table sooner, so we aren't having these debates in these chambers.

Um I'm gonna stop there because I'm a little bit.

But you answered what my question actually is without me having to say it.

And the premise here is that the city doesn't seem to care.

And that's actually not the case.

We have a lot of passionate people that really want to try to lean in on this.

But it is a complex issue.

And yes, we invite more people to the table.

Please come.

This is a citywide problem as identified.

But um, the idea that we don't care about this is far from the truth.

We do care about this, and and we're looking for all possible solutions that we can find.

And your passion that you just expressed right there just represented how much the city does care and how much effort you're personally putting into this, which I could tell stories.

But let's not tell stories.

Anyway.

This is my point is to really answer this question.

Does the city care?

Is this are we paying attention?

Yes, we are.

Do we have limited resources?

Absolutely we do.

Um could we use more?

No question.

But let's we're gonna need everyone to participate.

We're gonna need every church, we're gonna need every community group, we're gonna need every neighborhood.

Um we need we need to all come together on this because this is not a downtown problem.

This is not uh um a problem that's here or there.

It's a citywide problem, and we need to all come together.

That's my point.

Thank you.

Okay, Councilman Rainey.

Uh thank you, madam president.

Um, since you're there, um, just a quick question.

Uh it is something that I know because this is such an emotionally charged topic, and I do want us to get back to the essence to your very comment of why we're here to to actually discuss and debate the ordinance, going down the deeper conversation about homelessness is not gonna be handled in the next couple of hours here in in this chamber.

With that being said, in your office and your capacity, is there a list, a comprehensive list of all services dealing with homelessness that's located here in Colorado Springs?

Yeah, I mean, there are a variety of entities that keep a list, including uh United Ways 211.

So yeah, there is a list of services available.

Um, I think the challenge and what providers raised is not knowing actually uh there's a list of services, but what is actually available, where is their capacity?

And that was part of the challenge is that we've we sometimes pass people along to the next provider who passes them along to the next provider who passes them along to the next provider.

And to your very point, uh making those connections and and getting folks to the appropriate care that they truly need is a whole separate conversation from the fact of the they're just homeless.

And the reason why I bring that up, because this is such an emotionally charged conversation and listening to everyone and thank everyone for being here today.

I truly, truly believe that uh a community involved could be the first step in and moving in the right direction.

But I took notes, and because sometimes you can be emotionally charged, you don't often listen to what's really happening.

Twelve different organizations were mentioned this morning.

But the repeated comment was there's lack of services.

That's a common language theme.

But just in this last couple of hours, over 12, and one I'm not necessarily counting because it's all encompasses churches.

I mean, there's variation of churches.

Um I mean, that 12 could be multiplied multiple times over, and I'm quite sure added to the list that you're referring to.

So I I only bring that up just to give all of us uh just a moment of pause.

That every time we say that there is no services, but yet we've mentioned 12 just in the last hour that there are services that we need to try to help get people to, but this is more complex than just trying to get them to a service.

It's about understanding the service that they actually need in order to get them on the right path.

So once again, thank you for your passion.

Uh I I didn't want to put you on the spot, but since you were there, I just wanted to see if there was a comprehensive list.

So United Way 211 has that list.

Well, there is what we have we could provide one as well.

That would be good.

Yeah, there are systems in the community for maintaining those lists.

If I can get that, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you, Amy.

Thank you, Amy.

Next up, we have Ingrid Rector.

Good morning.

Council President Crow, President Pro Tem Rosley, and Council members, thank you so much for allowing me to speak today.

Some of you know me.

My name is Ingrid Richter.

I'm not a homeless expert.

I'm not a service provider.

I'm a businesswoman who's lived in Colorado Springs for 40 years, and travel that equilibrium between dignity and compassion every day as I walk the streets of our community.

I served as uh council member for the town of Manitou Springs, so I understand your challenges.

I understand you're being overwhelmed, and I definitely understand you're being underpaid.

My concern, although we all share the same goals of a safe community of healthy public space public spaces, my concern is about adopting this ordinance now without the service capacity to support it.

I don't believe this will move us toward the goals and may unintentionally deepen the challenges we're already struggling to manage.

This ordinance, I believe, makes it unlawful to camp in a vehicle on public property after a warning.

In practice, that means seniors living in their cars, families who have lost housing, veterans, students, brain injury victims that we've heard from today, and workers simply can't afford rent and would face criminal penalties for the act of trying to sleep in a vehicle.

My dear friend and colleague, Dr.

Tatiana Bailey recently wrote in the Gazette about a widening divide between what she called the have yachts and the have nots.

She describes how the cost of living in this city has outpaced wages, how even full-time workers are falling behind, and how many people who are struggling aren't doing anything wrong.

In fact, they're doing everything right in an economy that no longer works for them.

As an example, my 25-year-old daughter recently told me about a friend who lived in his van for eight months to save money to buy a house.

These are the real choices people are making who are trying to survive in the have not world.

These are the people most affected by this ordinance.

They're not criminals, they're good people who simply don't have enough money to afford rent in the city that they call home.

Criminalizing them does not create safety.

It creates records that make it harder to get a job, harder to get housing, harder to regain stability.

It punishes poverty, not behavior.

I need to skip ahead because I'm running out of time.

Our city lacks resources that we've discussed today bathrooms, adequate case management, navigation support, shelter beds.

What I've seen is we've only been mitigating the problem.

We're not solving it.

The reality is the structural constraints that the city has matter.

For decades, Tabor's ratchet down effect has limited our ability to invest in the services that make enforcement effective, leaving a system that's underbuilt by design, not by choice.

We simply lack the funding for the tools that we need to solve the underlying issues.

Enforcement without capacity is not a strategy.

It's a strain on systems that are already stretched thin and harms people who are already doing everything they can to survive.

I respectfully ask council to reconsider this car camping, making it a criminal offense.

Policy changes have to be matched with the service infrastructure required to make them effective.

Thank you.

Thank you for the opportunity.

Sarah Rossin.

Hi, my name is Sarah Rosson.

Um I'm gonna tell a story today.

I was asked to speak today, so I'm not prepared with the whole speech.

I'm sorry.

So my grandfather was actually homeless.

Um he slept in his car for a very, very long time.

And he was not trying to isolate himself, he was not trying to not get help.

Again, it is just you have to be in the mindset for help.

When he was in his car, he you know, racked up, you know, fine citations, what have you.

And it's just a relentless cycle where you can't pay for these things.

And when he really, really needed it, um, the police, some of them are really, really helpful, but some of them do have that implicit bias where they might take the law into their own hands and it might not.

Um be in the right way that it should be.

Um, when he was in his car, um, he was safe.

He was warm.

He had everything that he needed for his devices.

Um, when he was asked to leave his car and he was not able to stay in his car anymore, he actually was exposed to the elements.

And I think something that we know here is the warming shelters here are not open unless it's 19 degrees, which can kill.

Um, when he was out of his car and he was not able to stay in there any longer from moving place to place, he became very ill.

My dad actually saw him one time on the corner and didn't stop.

And this is one of the greatest regrets he has in his life.

He never stopped.

He just kept going in his car because he had a place that he had to be.

When he um, sorry.

Uh when he came back to that corner every day like he did, he never saw his father again.

And because he moved so many times, he was unable to keep track of him.

He was unable to have a cell phone or anything to contact my father.

Um, he actually um passed away due to the elements, um, which was really, really difficult.

Um I think the difference of having a car to sleep in and not having a car to sleep in is whether you are exposed to the elements, and they can be really raw and they can be really hard, especially in areas like this.

And I do think that if you would please reconsider this, that would change the lives of a lot of people.

Thank you.

Taylor Gray.

Hello.

Uh I have a good job.

I'm a technician.

In fact, when I started my job as a technician, there were two homeless people in my class, one living in a car and one who had to stash this stuff in a sewer pipe.

And they weren't bad people, and they it like the car was really important.

So I want to stick to the real important fact here.

You guys should consolidate this stuff.

I love I think you maybe be leading this.

Consolidating and making this less confusing so that people know where the code is and stuff is very important.

But the bottom line is like you can't do anything at any cost.

And if you vote yes on this, it will then be illegal to sleep in my car.

And although I have a great job, I am less than a paycheck away from living on the street.

Or thank God I have a car.

My brother, um, my me and my sister let him come and live with us as he was homeless.

And he was able to, you know, uh use the resources in the city, and he was cleaning up trash, and then he would take a lot of it and refurbish it.

And he was able to uh stay with us, but he was too embarrassed to stay in the house.

He camped in a tent in the backyard because of embarrassment.

Uh, maybe that's not why, but it it was sad.

And we were there to help him, and he was able to fabricate uh and sell things and clean up uh to the point where he was able to get an RV.

And then a citation happened to my sister because we had the RV next to the house, and he had some stuff outside of it, and it looked like he was living there because guess what he was?

And that RV was something he worked, he collected trash to get this RV so that he could have a safe place so that he could transition out.

This is over three, four months.

It takes time.

And he wasn't maybe mentally ready and didn't have the finances.

But he then was in that position where he was having to move his car because we were got sight to sighted and we had to kick him out of our house onto the street in his RV.

And so he's moving it, and he's even on the news.

Um, they they forced him out.

And guess what?

Where is the closest place?

It's up highway 24.

Do you think that he can build together a life again from the forest out in the mountain?

Like, we need you like you need the resources that are in the city, and and there's not even a bathroom.

Like I've talked to you guys about how I've been outside your guys' building every week all the time.

I can't pee.

There's nowhere to pee here.

Like we can't make living in our cars illegal.

AI is about to take my job.

Guaranteed.

I don't know what I'm gonna do.

But don't vote yes on this and make it so that on top of the whole world collapsing and that it's all the world's fault.

Anyway, please don't make it illegal.

Next up we have Scott Brown with Heidi seeding 10 minutes.

Heidi, do you cede your 10 minutes to Scott Brown?

Um, my name is Scott Brown.

I'm a um uh teaching professor in the nursing department at UCCS.

Um, I have some of my students here who are in a uh public health class right now.

Um I I don't think I have much more to say that hasn't been said already.

Um I um I'm not an expert in the way that a lot of people here are, but I've spent a lot of time with a lot of people who are experts.

And um there are a few things that concern me that I would like to bring out.

I think that we are talking about several different conversations right now.

I think that there are several of the conversations that are important that we're talking about, and we may not have time to solve homelessness right now.

I I think that's true.

Um one of the the conversations that I hear, one of the narratives that I hear is that um we just as a city don't have enough resources to do everything we should.

I'm not trying to say that that uh the the hot team or that the city is uncaring or does not care.

Um but I think a separate conversation that we're having is how do we use the resources we have?

Um and what I have seen from being peripherally connected to um to this issue is that the city's response has been by and large to put money into enforcement in recent uh uh in recent years.

Uh you know, I've I've read the mayor's plan, which is actually very uh balanced and has several different uh aspects of increasing affordable housing, putting more money into resources.

But but what I have seen, and what we've heard today is that there are people approaching the city with plans for safe affordable parking, and they're being being shut down.

Um why is the conversation just about criminalizing things?

Um true, we do not maybe have the resources to fix it.

But I think that there's an ethical imperative here that if you do not have the resources to offer an alternative, why are we focusing on criminalizing something?

That to me seems like an ethical problem.

Um we I would also like to speak to another narrative that I hear.

Um I read the PowerPoint uh that was describing the issue uh the other day, and um it was interesting that the sources of information came only from the hot team.

Um there was there was a narrative that a hot team is offering resources and people are refusing it.

People are denying resources.

Man, if only people would just accept the hot team's resources, maybe they'd be okay.

And I think we've seen today that that these resources are not here.

Where is a person going to park?

We have organizations who are knocking at the city's door saying, hey, help us do what you're saying.

Uh Councilman, uh, I'm sorry, uh Lean Wiper.

You asked why haven't people stepped up earlier?

I'm asking you guys to step up.

Have these conversations instead of rushing for these punitive measures that don't actually solve a problem.

And and as we've seen, a car is the last vestige of autonomy autonomy that people have sometimes.

Um I think that's something that we can find common ground on.

Um there's a lot of changes in the way government is funding homelessness aid and housing.

We we all know that sex and uh that that uh section aid housing is sort of off limits right now.

We um there's a lot of changes in the rules of HUD, but even in the rules of HUD, there is one thing that I think we can all agree about is that encouraging autonomy is everyone's goal.

I don't think there's anyone here in this audience who wants to create a state where people are relying on the government for things they don't need.

That that is not the goal.

We all want to encourage autonomy as much as our neighbors can operate that in that as possible.

And I would just say that from what I have seen, having a car is sometimes the very last vestige of autonomy that a person has.

Um, and if we want to support autonomy, support helping people help themselves in a way that they are not pulling more and more resources from why are we taking that away?

I've heard it said that you can't pull yourself up by your bootstraps if you don't have boots.

I think that a car and a boot kind of has a lot in common.

They take you where you need to go.

Sometimes it's the last thing separating you between the cold, hard concrete.

If we want people to help themselves, why are we taking away the last vestige of autonomy that they might have in order to pull themselves back up?

Thank you.

Next up we have Robert Stevens.

Robert Stevens.

Madam President, while we're waiting on Mr.

Stevens, I just want to point out again, this ordinance does not take anyone's car away.

What it says is you cannot live in your car in the city of Colorado Springs.

Jerome Cook.

Good morning, Council members.

My name is Jeron Cook.

I serve currently on the Central Catholic Charities Board, um, loving our children's board, and I am the co-founder of Father's First Incorporated.

I stand here before you not just as an advocate, a community leader, um, but as a father who has lived this reality.

Uh there was a season in my life where I slept in my car with my daughter beside me.

The car wasn't just our transportation, it was protection from the cold.

It was um a safe space for her and I to lay our heads.

And I heard someone mention uh showers and cleanliness.

We at the time used the gym, uh our local gym as our shower.

Um, and that's how I made sure I could still show up clean, uh presentable and dignified, ready to work and keep pushing forward.

I told her it was temporary.

I told her that uh we were gonna be okay.

But inside I carried a huge weight of uncertainty, wondering how one setback could divine our future.

During that time, I went to different community organizations looking for help.

There were times where I was turned away due to my previous uh involvement in the justice system.

And to go even further, sometimes with the fact uh that I was a man.

Um when you carry certain labels, I just want you all to understand that uh doors close faster than they open.

Um if I've been cited during that time, that may have just added another barrier for myself and my daughter, another charge, another label, another stigma uh that had already overcome.

Today I brought with me a young man uh who is a part of my organization, and he also has overcome being a person who lived in their car.

He didn't overcome that um from penalties or from you know people judging him.

He overcame it by being surrounded by healthy community, being offered um social emotional learning skills and behavioral health skills, and overall uh exposure to the right resources, which I've heard a few of you mention the right resources.

There's a ton of resources, but I believe that we need the right resources offer.

Um I think that's also a reality for a lot of other people.

That's what changed my life, that's what changed his life, and that's what could change so many others' lives.

It wasn't punishment, it was community, it was structure, it was accountability paired with belief.

I believe that it takes a village not only just to raise a child, but I think it takes a tribe to build a healthy community.

A healthy community doesn't criminalize survival.

I believe that it creates pathways out of these crises.

Um and I'm standing here just because someone chose restoration over rejection for me, and I'd urge you all to do the same.

Councilman Lineweber.

I want to really thank you for coming forward because I mean you're really a testament of just really working through some hard times and really making something uh of yourself.

And you did great, and you're a great man of God, and you really are showing your daughter or son.

My daughter.

Daughter.

I thought it was daughter, but then I questioned that.

Um, so I really want to admire that and and really appreciate you coming forward.

Thank you.

Um but I didn't want to address a question, not directly to you right now.

So I'm I'm okay with you.

Thanks.

Um, unless there's someone else that had a question for him.

Um, I was gonna address another issue.

Okay.

So it was brought up before you.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank all of you.

So it was brought up that um the city is denying um organizations from um participating with safe parking.

So um there is a uh uh a process, there's a you know permit, there's certain things that kind of have to take place.

And so I wanted to give the city the opportunity to respond to that.

And so Travis, I I'm putting you on the hot seat, but I'm I want to know the question.

I mean, are we denying people um permits and opportunities to provide safe parking?

I'm gonna look to Amy as to add, I I don't know that we are denying that.

I don't I don't know that they've come up and actually requested any of that either.

Um so Amy, feel free to add to that.

But it's kind of a permit thing, right?

It's it's yeah.

And so I don't know, I didn't really think it was part of Amy's thing because it's more of a property.

It's like go ahead.

It's uh again, Amy Cox, Chief Housing Homelessness Response Officer.

I think we're trying to get Kevin Walker, the planning director in here.

We did do a full policy analysis on this.

And um, there are uh there are opportunities for safe parking as either um uh most likely as an accessory use with a religious institution, um, but there are also pathways for it as a campground or a homeless shelter.

So we have met with um with the parties uh interested in establishing a safe parking program.

Um I believe Mr.

Tiefer Teller in the planning department uh reviewed the requirements there.

Um, and we're just waiting for a follow up.

Okay, so we so that is moving forward.

So it's not like we're denied, we haven't denied anything.

We just it just needs to finish.

We we need they need to be safe places, right?

And there need to be some obvious, and it's probably permit oriented, like you know, is there a bathroom?

Is there, you know, there's problems.

Yeah, there's some.

There would definitely, there are definitely best practices for doing this and some minimum requirements that would need to be met for um for a safe parking facility.

Again, the city has not had the city does not have the capacity to lead a safe parking program, nor do we have the resources to fund it.

However, we do have a zoning code and laws and um and a process for a provider to work um to establish a safe parking facility.

Again, I think the the pathway now is most likely with um a church or some religious institution.

Okay, so we've got some good news on the horizon, possibly is what we're saying.

Yeah, uh uh, yeah.

I mean, I think there's been interest and there's conversations.

I'm I am I have not had those conversations directly, but they've been had with our planning department.

Okay.

Yeah, we're we're following it.

Okay.

We're helping to facilitate where we can to make sure that anyone interested in and pursuing this type of facility is connected to the right people within the city who can provide the requirements.

And I guess the real question is the city is not trying to prevent this.

We're wanting partners, and and we're we'll we'll likely work with them every way possible to make this happen because we do see it as a need.

The we what we the way we approach planning is that as long as it is a legal use and you're within the right, you know, meeting the requirements of the zoning code, then absolutely.

We don't so in any whether it's something we want to pursue or not, people have have rights within our zone, you know, there are zoning codes that regulate this, and so as long as they're following the zoning code, we facilitate all sorts of different types of of um services.

Thank you for clarifying that.

We have a hard stop at 12 o'clock, and we still have deliberation on the dais, and we have um 20 minutes of public comment still.

So I'd ask our colleagues to please hold out questions until deliberation so that we can get through this morning in a timely manner.

Next up we have Ronald Williams.

Good morning.

Morning, afternoon.

Y'all in a tough spot.

They're in a tough spot, right?

Everybody's passionate about this.

I'm not.

I'm passionate about working together and making things work.

I'm what you call an angel investor.

I am Jeron's cook angel investor.

I supply his houses with money to protect fathers first.

Okay.

We have housing available, but you're not going to see that, and neither are you, because they're gonna come to people like me and say, Ron, do you want more houses?

I'm not non-for-profit.

The reason I'm not non-for-profit is because I have to jump through hoops to get help.

So I went out of my own pocket.

Six plus figures, okay, to do this.

Now I'm gonna ask to partner with you.

I can help you with a small part of your situation, helping men and homelessness get back together.

But I don't want to jump through the hoops of politics.

I don't want to come out here and talk to you.

You don't want to talk to me.

You want a problem solve.

You want a problem solve.

Okay.

We have too much emotion on both sides of this problem.

Let's be honest.

Homeless population, we go help 85% of them.

15% don't want help.

They don't.

They like where they're at.

This is the reality of it all.

Okay.

This is the reality of it all.

Police gonna do the best they can.

Everybody's not gonna implement the law the same way.

Everybody don't see me as a businessman.

Some people see me as a black man.

Okay.

Some people see homeless people as the problem, not as somebody who's going through hard times.

So we need better partnerships.

We need better understanding, and we can't do that by where we stand.

We can do that by actually talking to people.

Okay.

Actually getting out in advance and talking to people.

This is giving me anxiety talking to you.

I'm a hidden figure.

I'm a ghost.

I don't want nobody to bother me.

But when this young man came to me and said, I want to house fathers who need help.

I said, tell me more.

Then he came to me and said, This is what I have.

I said, here's six figures.

Where do we start?

Then people come to me and they say, Hey Ron, you want another house?

I say, we have to have five houses by when?

February of 27.

And we want to have 10 houses by then.

Then I want to bill in one of the malls and put a rec center for kids.

But I don't want to come jump through all the hoops.

And I don't want to have my funding taken away from me, so I'm gonna do it privately.

But I want to partner with you.

Thank you.

Thank you, uh, President Crow Iverson.

Um council, my name's Jerry White.

I'm coming to speaking personally, but as a 25 plus year experience volunteering with a local charity that provides uh crisis housing for families.

I want to start with a story of I was on overnight duty one night, got out of my sleeping bag, went down to the breakfast room, and a woman, one of our guests came to me and said, I have a problem, I have a flat tire.

I thought, that's no problem.

That's a problem that we can solve.

I'll replace the tire, put the spare on, take your tire to the tire shop, and we'll get it fixed.

She said, I don't have a spare.

I think she could see my eyes sort of rolling a little bit like who wouldn't have a spare tire.

So she preemptively said, uh, I'm living in a car with three kids.

I sold the spare.

I don't have room for a spare tire in my car.

Families like this are very common in Colorado Springs.

At our organization, we get calls, three, four, five, six calls every week from families living in their cars looking for housing.

And the PowerPoint that came with this presentation a while ago, you saw an estimate of the number of people who would accept help if offered.

And the number is around 50 or 60 percent.

In our demographic, that number is 200, 300, 400, 500%.

We have five times as many people wanting help than we can actually give help.

You're not getting the full story from the staff.

They're creating a story of people who reject help.

And what we have here in Colorado Springs is as a cadre of people who want, need, but can't get help.

I'm always interested in quoting councilwoman Councilman Lineweber.

He always has a lot of good things to say.

Um why hasn't someone stepped up?

Well, three months ago, the council postponed this discussion with the hopes that there would be a more comprehensive solution.

Council is the group that can step up.

We don't have facilities to said, well, we have facilities to give citations, we have facilities to have court hearings and bench warrants.

We can find facilities to have people park or uh the myriad of different solutions.

We need to come up with programs.

Yes, we do, and this is the group to come up with the programs.

Take the extra time that you had said you were gonna do, right?

Take the the the additional three months and come up with some programs.

And you said, Councilman Loner, we are talking about two different things.

We're talking about one thing, but we're only talking about half of it, and that's really the issue.

We're only talking about half of the problem, and I really urge you to take the next three months and talk about the other half.

Bob Peterson.

Hi, I'm Bug.

I organize with the Colorado Springs Alliance Against Racist and Political Repression and also do weekly homeless outreach and trash pickup.

I'm curious, do you genuinely think that getting a criminal record for camping helps people obtain employment or stable housing?

What happens when you're on the housing authorities wait list and get a criminal charge?

Criminalizing camping makes it far harder to escape homelessness, and that seems like common sense.

Last spring, CSPD played judge jury and executioner and killed Johnny Altman, a disabled black homeless man who had been kicked out of SRM because they couldn't accommodate his disabilities.

But I've seen hot pull guns on people.

I've seen hot take everything people own.

Why do we pay hot to felony menace the homeless community and do armed robbery, but execute disabled homeless black men for allegedly doing the same?

But any of us who have talked to homeless people know that's a lie.

I've talked to so many people who have lost all of their belongings to Hot with absolutely no warning, often including medications, important documents, things people need to survive or to obtain employment or housing.

People tell me about their friends who have died as a direct result of sweeps.

Most of Hot refuses to provide their name and badge number to community observers who asked them for it during sweeps.

Took me a while to realize Olav Cheney's name wasn't Dick Cheney, because that's what every homeless person I've talked to told him because that's how he treats people.

And that seems very typical of Hot.

There are so many reasons why people don't take hot up on the resources they claim to offer.

I know that if I became homeless, which seems very possible as someone with dynamic disabilities, I would not stay at SRM because it's way outside of my risk profile for communicable diseases.

I've talked with people after sweeps who say they avoid SRM like the plague because they've gotten COVID or other significant illnesses every time they've stayed there, which makes sense when we essentially have one adult shelter in the city with almost a thousand beds.

That's a nightmare for communicable diseases, and so is CJC.

The number of people who have died in our county jail from medical neglect is horrifying.

This ordinance claims to be about improving conditions around communicable diseases, but forcing people to stay in a jam-packed shelter if they don't want to go to jail tells me you do not care about the health and safety of homeless people.

Some things that would actually help are more shelters, more trash cans with sharks disposal containers, and more public bathrooms.

The lack of public bathrooms in this city makes everyone's lives harder.

Criminalizing not having anywhere to sleep besides your car or parks is cruel, makes people's lives harder, and makes homelessness harder to escape.

Prioritizing making cops' jobs easier over supporting the material needs and safety of the most vulnerable people in your community who you are tasked with serving is shameful.

Please vote no and consider reallocating funds that pay hot to terrorize people into things that would actually help create more safety and stability for the most vulnerable people in our community.

Thank you.

Something that uh councilman Lineweber would call chronically homeless.

I was kicked out of my house because of criminal charges.

Three months into me being homeless, I was taken to CJC for a month.

And some councilmans will say that CJC gets people help.

I am here to dispute that from my firsthand experience there.

Not only was I denied medical services, told to not turn myself in until I had a medical clearance from an ER because they would not allow me in with my walker.

Once I got in, they denied me my religious services.

When I got into a cell, my cellmate repeatedly sexually harassed me, and the deputies did nothing.

All of this while I was in the mental hospital every weekend.

They got worse.

The only reason I can stand in front of you all now is because of my great community that I found with organizing.

And currently, I am trying to get my birth certificate to get my driver's license.

So that instead of staying on the street and camping, I can live in a car.

Which is a step up for me.

It is a step up that you would not allow, Councilman Donaldson.

When one of our community members, Johnny Altman, was in his car.

A situation in which I will also be at.

And they pulled a gun on him and shot him dead for sleeping in a car.

And supposedly committing armed robbery.

Supposedly.

And he was killed.

John Crow.

Good morning.

I've been doing homeless outreach for a couple of years with the garbage gang.

We're out there every week on Saturdays.

I'm also here with Colorado Springs tenants.

I know this is a future thing with the Mill Street neighborhood, but I do want to talk about how Dave, we really have criminalized homelessness in the city.

We also have littering charges, which are like really obviously littering is bad.

I'm not arguing that, but like these are weaponized against homeless people for having like a tent that they're living in.

Like, let's not kid ourselves.

Come on, man.

Um the camping ban is really just going to add to that list.

I mean, it's it's another function that does criminalize homelessness.

And like it's not going to put less strain on our services that are already spread thin, as we've covered here.

It's not going to put less strain on our brave, brave, brave police officers who so bravely with hot brutalize homeless people on the daily.

Um instead, what it's going to do is just punish homelessness with more homelessness when you issue citations.

That's what's going to happen.

It's going to increase costs.

I also just want to say that like it, I think it's very poignant that this is what's being discussed on the same day as uh as uh people coming in to talk about Norwood uh building a hotel downtown.

That is going to increase property taxes in an already somewhat poor neighborhood, Mill Street.

So we're on the one hand, we're talking about the increase in in punitive punishment if you are homeless.

And in the next breath, we're going to talk about making it harder to afford to not live on the street.

Like what are we doing here?

That seems ridiculous.

Um see how much time I got.

Okay.

It seems like the only housing program that we really like is prison.

Um that's like the only thing we really can push, right?

That's why we talk more and more about criminalizing sleeping in your car, or that's why we keep putting about a third of our city budget, give or take on the year towards police.

I mean, really, if you want to talk about funding, there's a golden goose sitting right there.

Take it from hot, baby.

Fucking put that into rent checks, put that into whatever program you want.

There's all kinds of suggestions here.

There's already existing programs as we've covered.

Um, and finally, I want to talk about the idea that like the law applies evenly, Dave, to people who are sleeping under bridges.

I am no more afraid of you sleeping under a bridge than I am afraid of someone sleeping under a bridge committing securities fraud.

That's a ridiculous thing to say, because what incentive do you have to sleep under a bridge, my guy?

Myra Lauer.

Hello, my name is Mariah Lauer.

I am the executive director of the Chinook Center.

Now, I'm sure none of you actually experience what it's like to have people car camping right outside your house, but I do.

And I see people who are struggling to survive while attempting to be discreet about their presence.

The people experiencing homelessness are not the problem.

It is the fact that homelessness exists due to policy failures like this ordinance that you are responsible for.

To those of you who are supporting this ordinance, I've you know been here before.

I'm not going to attempt to speak to your humanity with heartbreaking stories of people I've met, because that would require you to have any.

But I'm going to strongly push back to this narrative that drug use is a justification for criminalizing homelessness.

Using drugs to cope with the trauma and realities of homelessness is a rational choice.

Women experiencing homelessness use stimulants to stay awake at night and sleep during the day when it's safer.

I get back pain from sleeping on a bad mattress.

I cannot imagine how much physical pain people experiencing homelessness deal with every day.

And I will not condemn their choice to use drugs.

All this performative hand ringing, hand wringing about what can be done is so absurd.

There is significant empirical evidence that proves housing first programs are incredibly successful, which rather than criminalizing homelessness puts people in housing full stop and provides them with mental health, substance abuse, and vocational programs.

Rather than spending over $50,000 per individual to incarcerate them and pay for emergency services, we could spend half that to provide people with housing and actually end homelessness.

The cost effective and compassionate solution is already proven.

We don't have to go look for it further.

The city is simply refusing to take it.

David Abnick.

Thank you.

Give me a moment.

Sorry, my mind is dang it.

Shit.

My they are these you say all these things about what could what options are, yet I yet it means nothing.

I mean, there's the saying that well learning and doing are two uh very different things because learning from it means you've actually implemented and are actually doing something.

But so far I just feel like you've just been saying all the options, but not actually acting upon them.

And on the note of the no cars, I heard what you said about no cars and is what the whole thing is, but but that means you would have to drive far out of the town.

But um literally have that means more gas to have to pay for, which means less money for them to have for other things.

And if all these homeless places that you've listed are haven't been going to, there might be a reason because people are afraid of it or uncomfortable with it or they haven't been helping at all.

And on the note of being afraid to be outside uh in public, whether day or night, I do a lot of outings and I if I get extremely tired and I have to call my ride or Uber, then I um then that means I have to go back and forth and I feel exhausted during these events, and um the only way I could get the rest is if I nap on a bench or something, but then I'd be risking seeming like I'm homeless myself.

I only heard about this ordinance today, but um I am disgusted by it.

And if and I just have to say that if um this is passed and all these people are homeless and on the streets without shelter, car housing and heck, heaven forbid they start dying more, might want to consider who whose fault that is.

That is all that is the end of public comment.

So I'll bring it back up to the dais for deliberation and um we'll vote.

Councilman Hincham.

Uh thank you, Madam President, and thank you, everyone for showing up today for your stories for um your testimony.

Very powerful.

Um really genuinely appreciate that the intention of this ordinance um was about consolidation, simplification, and responding to neighbors who have concerns when people are uh sleeping in their cars on their street.

Um I I genuinely appreciate and I genuinely appreciate the concern that those neighbors have.

Um but I I think what has been demonstrated today is is a number of things.

One thing is there's this question about how many people are actually living in vehicles.

And I would share with you that we we don't know exactly, but that on average, nationally, uh 40% or so of people who are experiencing homelessness do live in vehicles.

In our in our system, uh from October of 24 to September of 25, we had identified 5,394 people living in or live as homeless, experiencing homelessness.

On the low end, 15%, let's say 15% of those in Colorado Springs living in their cars, that's about 809 people.

On the high end, let's call it 50%, that's about 2,700 people.

So we don't know for sure, but I can share with you a few things that I've learned, and we've heard them today.

Actually, you've heard many of the stories today, but I would add additionally.

Um Jeff Green, our former uh chief of staff was at a um uh a setting with the Urban Land Institute a week or two ago, and shared that a student, he's now at UCCS, and he shared that um UCCS students, many are living in their cars in order to be able to afford to go to college.

I think we heard a testimony or two like that here today.

Um David Lord, who is was recognized by the mayor just this last year for his work in our community.

He volunteers on a regular basis at Silver Key.

He he shared with me last week that in one day answering phones for Silver Key, three of the calls that he took were seniors who are looking for help because they're living in their cars.

So oh, and one more actually.

Um you may have heard about Silver Key's uh work that they're uh project that they're planning to do on Weber for Affordable Housing for Seniors, thank God we need more of that.

Um there's a van that's been parked uh for a very long time, is parked in in front of that property.

That gentleman who who lives in that van, he works at the safe way that's just across the way, um, like you know, over the over the trail.

Um, and he is trying um to find a place to live and make it work.

And I without sharing personal story, um the reason that he's there is very, very complex and sad and hard.

So these are the these are the people that we are dealing with as much as um the I think the face or the story of the feces and the drug selling and the guns, and and yes, that is true, that absolutely does happen, and it is scary, but it is not the majority of people who we find living in their in their cars or in their vehicles.

Um but what we haven't really talked about much is is the the research.

Evidence-based research shows that um uh lost my word that um shoot not criminalization, but um a stick.

We'll call it a stick.

That's what that's what my fellow council members have have said is we need a stick to help get people into services.

Sometimes they need a push.

Um and enforcement, that's the word I was looking for.

Enforcement does do this, it does displace visible homelessness.

It does do that.

It does move people along.

That it absolutely accomplishes, but it does not solve the challenge.

Now, again, I will say, my fellow council members, I think all here agree that this ordinance is not intended to solve the problem of homelessness.

I think we all here agree that agree with that.

But we're not talking about the evidence and the practices, and um we need to get people to the right places, and yes, we have lists, uh Councilmember Rainey.

Um there were many organizations that were referenced here today.

But I sat in a room with those providers just two weeks ago, and I heard a number of things from them.

Um they were not included in the process of of this ordinance, but we are meeting with them, and they had some very, very powerful things to share.

Um they talked about um some key issues, and I'm just gonna real quickly name not even all of them, but some of them that were identified out of that uh two-hour meeting on a Friday afternoon.

Housing and shelter options are are not sufficient enough, vehicular homelessness and safe parking, hygiene and basic needs and infrastructure, medical and behavioral health needs and infrastructure, um uh access and eligibility for uh wraparound services, um, youth.

There's no place for youth to spend the night.

Youth who are being taken out of who I have to leave their homes because they're not welcome there.

There's no place for them to lay their heads at night.

Where will they go?

More and more and more.

And then the providers identified, and the question that we were all prompted to work on together in groups was what are what are the required changes that are are needed?

And I think this is what I hear you all saying to us is how can you help us as a community work on these um solutions.

So funding and financial strategies were identified.

We have an angel investor in the house.

We need to talk with him, but we need more than an individual angel investor.

We heard Tabor mentioned, right?

By a businesswoman.

Um funding is very clearly a need, a change, system alignment and governance.

Right here.

We need to be aligned and governing appropriately to find the solutions.

Um policy and structural reform, data evidence, housing and diversion pathways, places for people to go.

And when you maybe are approached in your car with a list, you're not thinking, oh, I'm gonna go call the number on here and go take care of it.

First of all, because it's not going to happen that simply.

But that's actually not how we help people get services.

Community perception and education.

And this one I want to stop for just a moment.

Because I think the good thing about this ordinance is that we have this incredible opportunity to shine a light to have a conversation about who are the unhoused.

What are their stories?

I think many of us have in our head, they see the person who's losing their minds, who's raging their fist, who maybe is even waving a knife, or or maybe they're on a drug trip.

And in our minds, we think that is who the homeless is.

It's not.

That is a subset of people out there, but it is not the universal um identification of who is in this situation in their life.

Edie came in and showed us her picture of the difference of what she looked like when she was housed and had a job and had purpose before her injury.

Things happened to her that were completely out of her control.

And what happened to her after two years of being homeless, a combination, by the way, of car, other people's houses, couches, et cetera.

Um the other couple of things that they identified were operational and service access as a as a need and stakeholder engagement and leadership.

And I'm I'm really am going to stop because I know other people want to speak and we want to get to lunch, and um you all have said probably much better what than what I can say up here as someone voting on this issue.

But my God, you know, it's just it's it's enforcement is not going to solve this challenge.

It will move people along.

It is not the stick that is going to get people the services that they need.

And for that reason, I I absolutely um have to vote no on this understanding and appreciating.

Seeing no other um council members, we have a motion from Councilman Risley and a second from Councilman Bailey.

Let's vote.

The motion passes seven to two.

We are now in recess for lunch.

We will return for our well, for the sake of time and since I promised you we would start at 105.

Um, we are going to get started.

We are now back in session.

Um, will the clerk please read item 10A and 10 B into the record?

We will vote on these two separately, but we're gonna read them both into the record at the same time.

10A, a resolution making certain legislative findings and approving the Odyssey at North Weber Urban Renewal Plan 10B, resolution approvement cooperation agreement between the Colorado Springs Urban Renewal Authority and the City of Colorado Springs to promote redevelopment and assist with financing of public improvements for Odyssey at North Weber Urban Renewal Project pursuant to Colorado Revised Statutes.

Good afternoon.

Good afternoon.

Thank you, President Crow Iverson, Pro Tim Risley, Honorable Members of Council.

My name is Jariah Walker.

I'm the executive director of the Colorado Springs Urban Renewal Authority.

Excited to bring this project to you for final vote today.

This is the uh URA within the North Nevada corridor Odyssey at North Weber, that is within the area of influence that was in a recently commissioned study by the Urban Land Institute.

Uh and this is one of the first new residential developments that's occurred within this area in many years.

Uh this project has already secured its pledges from School District 11, PPLD, the Southeastern Water Conservancy District, as well as El Paso County.

I do have Drew Geyser, who is with the development team with Blue Truck right in front of me here to my left.

She is online.

And then I'm here to answer any questions too.

Um, given the fact that we already presented all these financials and all this information at the prior work session, we can certainly do that again if a member of council would like us to do so.

But other than that, really nothing new to add on our side.

So we would, you know, rest and and essentially open it up for any comments or questions from the body.

I don't see any councilman questions or comments at this time, but I do have a motion from Councilman Henjam and a second from Councilman Risley.

So we will vote on 10A.

The motion passes nine to zero.

Councilman Henjam, did you did I see nine?

Thank you.

It's okay.

I was a little late to the draw.

Clearly, I made a motion and wanted to support it.

But um, Tria, if you if you wouldn't mind just two or three sentences about the value of this particular development and the neighborhood that it's in.

Thank you.

Yeah, that that's that's great.

Uh, North Nevada has been an area that's been targeted by uh the urban renewal authority for quite some time.

In this area, uh, obviously lack of sidewalks, lack of public infrastructure, and really not seeing any new development or interest in development in many, many years.

And it takes it takes investors and developers, frankly, like Drew with Blue Truck here, to see a great opportunity and to be able to bring this project to the table.

The other exciting thing is this is right near a daycare, and he's you know, we're doing good and and you know trying to create a value project really for that entire area.

So um we've this this particular project has soared through all the approval processes.

Everyone's been very, very interested and really lines up with what you will I called for in that report as well.

Yeah, exactly.

And I I think just given in part because we have so many people here to speak about another urban renewal project in a neighborhood that's quite frankly similar to the one that this uh project will be in.

I I do think it's important for people to know, at least I really support this particular project and think uh for that neighborhood, Cragmore Papton neighborhood.

Um, this is going to provide additional uh housing um that's really necessary in a in a working class neighborhood.

So thank you.

Thank you, ma'am.

So I don't see any other comments for 10 B.

I need a motion for 10 B.

Have a motion from Councilman Bailey and a second from Councilman Rainey.

Um so let's vote on 10 B.

And the motion passes nine to zero.

So moving on to item 10 C and 10 D, will the clerk please read item 10 C and 10 D into the record?

We will read them in at once, but we will vote on them separately as well.

10 C resolution making certain legislative findings and approved the Moreno Cascade Urban Renewal Plan, 10 D resolution approved and cooperation agreement between the Colorado Springs Urban Renewal Authority and the City of Colorado Springs to promote redevelopment assist the financing of public improvements for the Moreno Cascade Urban Renewal Project and improve the amount of annual sales tax increment revenue allocated pursuant to Colorado revised statute.

Excellent.

Uh so again for the record, Jariah Walker, executive director of the Colorado Springs Urban Renewal Authority.

Uh second project that we're bringing you today for approval is the Merino and Cascade URA.

This is within the new South End area of downtown.

Features the Cat Bird Hotel, along with an attainable housing component within it, just south of Marina within the Mill Street neighborhood plan.

This project has been endorsed by the Urban Renewal Authority Board, as well as having pledges from all the taxing entities as well, School District 11, PPLD, Southeastern Water Conservancy District, El Paso County, and then because of its location uh within downtown, the downtown development authority as well.

Again, just for the for reference for council, uh EPS also did the study work on this particular project.

They are online if there's any questions on the methods that were used or the uh financials that we went through and the analysis of this project.

Uh again, I'm here.

The URA attorney David Neville is present.

We do have Jeff Finn with Norwood Development as the developer in the audience.

And then I also would be remiss if I didn't mention Ryan Tifertiller, the urban planning manager is also in the audience as well.

Uh same scenario with this project.

We already went through a lot of the financials and the condition study on this one.

So unless there's a particular member of council that wants us to go through it again, uh, we don't feel the need to do that.

I do want to mention a couple of highlights though with this one.

Obviously, this one's had some recent press on it.

And so I did want to bring up a couple of things to council because these would be questions that I would have if I was sitting in your shoes.

Um, one thing that I wanted to mention about this project, originally it did not include an attainable housing component at all.

Initially, this was going to be a retail component that backed up behind Trolley Block and that parking lot that's just north of the May, and then included the Cat Bird Hotel too.

Uh, my board loved that project, and and of course, uh, you know, Councilmember Bailey sits on that board, and there's a lot of excitement around it because Merino has been for forever an area that the URA has really wanted to see improved.

And this goes back to City Gate 1.0 that was approved in the early 2000s.

Uh so this we've been focused on building out the public infrastructure really within this entire street.

Um, however, that particular piece of the project did not come to fruition because there just wasn't enough predetermined knowledge of what taxes that would generate, and ultimately it wasn't something that we could pitch to the taxing entities because we're trying to give the taxing entities what these taxes are going to be on a 25 year basis.

So ultimately, Norwood was the one that came to us and actually offered the attainable housing component of these properties that are just south of Merino.

That was all on their accord.

Um the importance of uh Merino, of course, this still matches uh what our vision was going to be.

But it was really with that suggestion, and we had mentioned in Norwood at the time once once attainable housing comes out of the bag, you know, and that's baked into a URA plan, that doesn't get changed.

You know, we can't go to the taxing entities and say we're gonna do this and then change it up and do something different.

Uh the state statute binds us to guidelines around that.

So if if we say it's gonna be an attainable housing project, it can't be market, it can't be retail, it can't change beyond that.

So I think that's an important factor the council needs to know.

Um, I'll also say that the Mill Street neighborhood did come to that URA board meeting when we ultimately approved moving forward with that project, and that was in July of 2025.

And I thought it was a great meeting.

Um, I thought there was great representation in the in the room.

It's always good to hear from neighborhoods about these projects.

So we were more than you know, more than willing to hear that conversation, and it ended well.

Um, and I think again, you know, Councilmember Bailey would probably attest to that because he he, of course, was in the room.

Um, but there was there was no aggravation around this project, except let's keep it, you know.

The only two requests that we heard loud and clear was please make it as cheap as possible and make it as affordable as possible, and please make it as dense as possible.

That was a matter of fact, so dense when we look at 77 to 115 attainable housing units, that's pretty dense, you know, up against that neighborhood.

But the neighborhood came out loud and clear and said we don't mind that level of density within this portion of the plan.

Um, so when we left that meeting, I I would I speak for my board and myself, we felt like Mill Street supported this project moving forward.

And we ended up moving forward and bringing it to the taxing entities, and of course, all those approvals that lead us in front of you uh here today uh have been made.

I will say that that some of the residents of Mill Street, there's been a couple of them that I've had some conversations with just about how the URI process works.

And it is a confusing process, and explaining to them that really our development agreement with Norwood is really what's gonna dictate what improvements are allowed to be paid for, where that TIFF is applied, um, timelines in order to get it introduced.

But that mission accomplished, they came out and made their voices heard, and that's exactly what we have within this plan.

Um, so I would argue as far as it relates to the urban renewal status, I I think we've done what the neighborhood has wanted us to do.

Um the other the other thing I just wanted to point out with TIFF, TIFF has to stay within the boundaries that it's created in.

So I can't take TIFF that's generated from one project within a boundary and then apply it to something that's blocks over.

That's against the rules in the state statute.

I can do that some with when we when we're including public rights of way, I can do that with some connectivity as it relates to streets, sidewalks, et cetera, but we can't take it and apply it to a completely different, you know, area that's outside of the urban urban renewal area plan boundary.

Um the only other thing I wanted to mention, um, I I do think calling the Calvert Hotel, I've I've heard it mentioned as a luxury hotel, it is not a luxury hotel.

Um, far from it.

Uh these are some you know, studio units, some of these units go for 180 bucks a night.

Um, even in Denver, like when you when you there, these there it's a more affordable option.

This is not a Broadmore resort or something like that of being a luxury hotel that's abutting up against this neighborhood.

I don't think that's a fair classification.

I think it's a little politically charged, to be quite honest.

Um, with that being said, I will certainly open it up to questions from council and again the development team and all the consultants are here with us today.

I also have some members from my board in the audience as well.

Um, and happy to answer any questions from council.

Thank you.

Councilman Hencham, we do have people signed up.

Do you want to wait until I I no, I don't.

Okay, I do have a question.

Yes, ma'am.

And I would like it if you could pull up the Moreno and Cascade presentation on the project, please, Emily.

Um, so I don't necessarily need you to go through the whole plan.

Sure.

Um, but I I would like for you to move to slide.

Oh gosh, they're not numbered.

It's the slide with the map that shows the new South End.

Um and my question is that this map, the new South End, overlaps with what I see as other maps where the Mill Street neighborhood is actually what you're calling the new South End.

And my question is in these conversations that were had, and maybe I don't know if this is for the URA or for the developer.

Sure.

But I think they're feeling a little bit like yes, they slapped a name on a neighborhood that's been Mill Street for a very long time.

And I want to give you the opportunity to address that because I'm pretty sympathetic to that frustration that they're experiencing.

And then my other question, and then I'll be quiet and you can respond, is um I understand that it's probably been at least 10 years or so ago, uh, that there was a neighborhood preservation plan that was developed and approved by council, the Mill Street neighborhood preservation plan.

And was that ever considered in this process at all?

Um it was approved by council.

I don't, you know, I don't I haven't pulled it up, I haven't gone to see uh I haven't gone back into the records, but it it seems to me that that likely should have been considered as part of this process as well.

Sure, sure.

So the as far as the the new South End, that's that's a generic term.

I don't think it's really trying to look at any neighborhood in particular.

It's just talking about this is activity that has occurred within this area.

And I'll I'll certainly let the developer weigh in differently on that if he wants to.

Um is that a URA designation of this is the new South End?

No, no, no, no.

It's it's not an official UR designation.

I think that was just something the developer was doing of look at all the development that has occurred throughout downtown, and a lot of it targeted really with Trolley Block and the May and some of these other areas.

Um as it relates to the Mill Street plan, the the way that we saw it in the way with Mill Street coming into our board meeting is that this was actually enhancing things that they wanted built within that plan.

You know, but it that if you read that plan, uh it talks a great deal about safety and it talks a great deal about access to trails or walking around and and feeling less of a a crime issue, which which I'm you know, I'm struggling a little bit more with the south end of Mill Street as it extends into the South Nevada corridor.

Um so that's something that we felt like this plan immediately addressed.

It also talks about infrastructure and and the more people that we can get living in this area, again, the more that this is gonna be a safer environment and infrastructure will get addressed.

And then, of course, the attainable housing piece.

If if Norwood had come to us and and you know, I just put the record straight, if they had said, hey, we want to build market rate housing right here in the heart of Mill Street, or even on the even you know, within that mill street boundary, I would have told them that that would have been an extremely politically charged conversation and something that I don't feel like the URI board would have supported.

And I don't feel like the the URA board would have supported that.

Um it was, you know, again, they matter of fact, initially we weren't even looking at anything within the Mill Street plan, like I said earlier.

It was when they brought this forward.

That's and that's that's frankly, you kind of allude to something that's been bothering me a little bit is that if we had not had nor would bring an attainable housing project to us and say we want to build an attainable housing project in Mill Street.

And keep in mind, in that plan, there's pictures of Norwood, that you know, Norwood developers around the tables.

I was involved with some of that planning process um when I was with economic development.

So we we we've touched it, you know, in many ways, but would we have all of this kind of you know nervousness around it if they had not included any attainable housing at all, cut it out of the URA and just built something different over there?

I don't know.

But I I can tell you this by from my viewpoint, we're doing what the neighborhood wanted to be done.

So thank you.

And I know there are a lot of here people here to to speak and and share their perspective.

And I I know this is not a cut and dry black and white situation.

Um, and I certainly want to hear from those folks, but I I did I did really take note of that and um and and we'll be curious to to hear um both what what the neighbors have to say and and how we continue to find because something happened between working well together, URA board excited, neighbors excited, and now we have a sea of blue in the in the chambers of people who are concerned, and I think we just want to figure out like what well, I don't know if we're gonna figure out what happened here today, but we want to work together on behalf of the whole city.

And and I I will add, uh, councilwoman, that the um the UR is the one that will be driving this plan moving forward.

You know, this isn't, I mean, we developers get involved really through this approval process, but now it's on the URA's shoulders to make sure that that avenue you know gets built and and how we structure that agreement.

But so to me, the developer piece is kind of done, at least on the URA side of things.

Um but you know, we can certainly open it up to conversation.

Council McDonaldson.

Yeah, just uh two things.

One, Jurah, would you just go ahead and point out?

I think it would be helpful.

Point out on the map exactly uh the area we're talking about in relation to the soccer field and then the uh new south in words.

Yeah, uh, do I do I have a mouse pointer?

I don't.

Um yeah, kind of hard.

So if you take so Marino essentially runs in between, so you see the soccer field and you see the apartments that are just south of it, that's merino.

Okay, cascade, if you that that block right there, not not that one, go further east.

Do you know where it cast yeah?

So so essentially the Calvert Hotel is on that northwest corner, and the attainable units are just south of that, within you know, just south of Merino.

Okay, I think that's helpful for everybody in the room to to see.

And how long would it take you to go through your presentation?

Um it would well, if we we we have the financial analysis piece, so that's probably 10 minutes, and then for the developer presentation, that's probably another another 10 minutes too.

So you're probably looking at 20.

Okay.

If no one else up here wants that, then I'll I will withdraw it.

But I think it would be useful to have it on the record today.

Can I get a thumbs up of how many people went the presentation?

Two.

So we'll start with public comment.

Okay.

We will start with Susan Adams.

Okay.

And Susan, you have three minutes.

I mean you looks like 45, actually.

It does look like you have 45 minutes.

Wow.

I don't have that much.

Can you do it?

Um can you hear me okay?

Yes, you can pull the mic down and just make sure that green button is on.

It is.

Okay, there we can hear you.

Okay, good.

I am Susan Adams.

I live in the Mill Street Street neighborhood.

I live at 726 Watch Street, which is um two blocks south of the stadium, and one block east of train wreck.

So I'm in that area of um of Mill Street.

I um we bought our house nine years ago.

Um, and I've seen a lot of changes in that nine years, that time period.

And um, I love the changes.

I love the stadium.

I'm probably the only one in the neighborhood who doesn't mind the traffic.

I think it's great.

I want people to come to my community because I love my community, and I want my community to show how well and loved it is.

There's an answer to affordable housing, and maybe that for seniors might work someday.

I don't know.

That's not my thing.

Um I am proud of my community.

I think that changes have a positive impact on my property and the community.

I've seen, I'm now seeing young people walking their dogs, and I love that.

It's just, it's just not a quiet in-housed neighborhood.

People are out and about.

Those things are the changes that I think have made an incredibly positive change in our neighborhood.

I welcome the new hotel because I think that's another part of the change that will take place that will bring this.

What did the word I read, blighted neighborhood, and it has been that at times.

It's I don't see that happening as much anymore.

But I think the hotel will uh bring that.

The hotel, the only problem is that I wish it was built by June because my granddaughter is getting married in um in Manitou, and the whole family's coming from all over the United States.

So anyway, um, any oh I lost my phone.

Oh, I have one more.

Um, I want I I do want the hotel because I think it does make our community more viable and a good place to live.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next up we have Lori Andrich.

Hi, good afternoon.

My name is uh Lori Andrick, and I've been a Mill Street homeowner since 2004.

My husband and I also purchased our the house next door in 2020 because we believe so strongly in the neighborhood's future.

I'm here to express my full support in the hotel project.

When I bought my first hot, when I bought my first home, I anticipated the John Q.

Hammonds Hotel Project and the speculative baseball stadium breaking ground, along with all the additional benefits that come with these types of community amenities.

These two projects never came to fruition.

However, in the last 20 years, I've watched Mill Street evolve from industrial, largely transient area into a healthy, vibrant, and increasing stable neighborhood.

That transformation has been driven by responsible development, new apartments, residential projects, and hotels that bring residents and visitors who did sustain restaurant shops and locally owned businesses.

As these investments have taken root, my own property values have increased, and many of my neighbors have made noticeable improvements to their homes in Curb Appeal.

This momentum reflects a community that believes in its future.

Hotels create full and part-time jobs with real career pathways.

They generate local tax revenues that support public services, increase foot traffic that strengthens many small businesses across downtown.

They also encourage infrastructure upgrades from lighting sidewalks and often partner with local nonprofits, artists, and farms to enrich community life.

Beyond the economic benefits, hotels serve is gathering places for celebrations, meetings, and cultural events, helping elevate the city's profile and creating welcoming image that benefits residents and businesses alike.

For these reasons, I wholeheartedly support this project with the positive economic and social impact that it'll bring to Mill State, Mill Street and the downtown area.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next up we have Frazi Abbott.

Frozy.

Sorry.

Frozy.

Frozy Abbott.

Rosie Abbott.

Yeah.

Okay.

My name is Frozy Abbott.

I'm a leader with the Mill Street Community Benefits All Coalition.

And I have lived in Mill Street for more than 23 years.

A group of us are here today to speak to you about our neighborhood and why we believe we need a legally binding community benefits agreement covering the Catbird Hotel development.

Mill Street is Colorado Springs' oldest working class neighborhood, originally home to workers at the Broadmore Hotel, servants to estates in the old North End, and laborers at the nearby mill.

And it continues to house many of the city's essential workers to this day.

Mill Street neighbors teach our city kids, treat our patients, bag our groceries, serve our coffee, and take care of our elders.

Neighbors in Mill Street look out for one another.

We share plants and garden tips, help raise each other's kids, walk each other's dog, take care of each other when we're sick, hurt, or just growing old.

It's a friendly, diverse working class neighborhood, and we like it like that.

My home in Mill Street is more than a home.

It's the headquarters of my social network and community life.

I've gotten to know my neighbors well, and we look out for each other and can call on each other in times of need.

Many of us have lived in the neighborhood for a long time, and many of our deepest relationships are with our neighbors.

A couple years ago, I felt called to take on a bigger role supporting my neighbors, and began a weekly food pantry for those in need.

The pantry became not only an important source of food for my neighbors, but also a social event, a time for people to gather and enjoy each other's company.

I started organizing with my neighbors and our coalitions, partners in 2021 because I saw things changing quickly in our neighborhood, and it didn't seem like as neighbors we had a seat at the table where decisions were being made.

Many of my neighbors fear being priced or pushed out, and I can't stand for that.

If I lose my home, my neighbors, I don't know what I will do and how I will survive.

That's why we need an agreement with Norwich that creates real solutions for our neighbor.

It also says, love thy neighbor, Matthew 22, 39, and Mark 12, 31.

Welcome to Mill Street.

Frozy Abbott, 80903.

Next up, we have Mary Sprunger Frois.

Did I get that right too or wrong?

Okay.

Frays, all right.

Well, I'm getting better.

It's German, but Americanized.

Good afternoon, Council.

I am Mary Sprunger Frays.

I am one of the leaders in the Mill Street Community Benefits All Coalition.

I've lived in Mill Street for 25 years.

I'm very grateful to live there.

Neighbors look out for each other.

No matter who you are or how much money you have, you are welcome in our neighborhood.

But today the Mill Street neighborhood we know and love is at risk.

Historically, it was affordable place to live, but prices in our neighborhood are rising rapidly as upscale development takes over on the south end of downtown, which is the northern border of Mill Street.

In 2022, we surveyed over 70 Mill Street residents.

58% said they were concerned about being displaced.

Pressure has only increased since then.

After decades of public disinvestment, Mill Street is now being gentrified by rapid reinvestment, featuring taxpayer-supported upscale apartments, a soccer stadium, and luxury hotels.

Some Mill Street neighbors have already been pushed out.

I know about seven of them, primarily long-term renters who hope to buy their homes one day but couldn't after value nearly doubled in a few short years.

Sunday afternoons, all ages played softball on the Lowell school grounds.

But in a few years, the whole neighborhood was declared an urban renewal zone.

Because Lowell was labeled in transition, neighbors were denied loans for rehab and repair.

And the city withheld community development block grants for public improvements because they said you're in transition.

Neighbors were intimidated into selling or moving out, and by 2001, our homes were bulldozed and replaced by high-end town homes.

We lost connection with almost all of our neighbors, and that social and community bonds that we had are gone forever.

I don't want to go through that again.

I know that we don't have to if the developers of our neighborhood will sit down with us and negotiate a community benefit agreement, a CBA.

We can preserve the existing affordable housing that we still have, create new affordable housing, not attainable, but affordable, and put measures in place to prevent the displacement of our neighbors, ensuring that public money comes with real public benefits.

Next up, we have Bob Stellick.

Hi, my name is Bob Stellick.

I'm a leader with the Mill Street Community Benefits All Coalition, and my wife and I have owned in the Mill Street neighborhood for 30 years.

There's a difference.

And that has not happened that way going forward.

So we bought our home in uh the mid-90s.

It's a 900 square foot home.

It was our first home.

When our family outgrew it, we held on to it and rented it out, always planning to right size back down to that home when we became empty nesters.

Over the years, we kept the rent fair and stable, stayed connected to our neighbors, and cared for the home.

Kids grown now.

We were able to move back to that home two years ago.

And we wanted to be take a more active role in our neighborhood and help navigate some of the growing pressures of the change around us.

We're not against the change.

We just want to be involved in it.

We've already seen great neighbors forced to move out because rents rose too high, and others who hoped to buy but simply couldn't afford to.

Last year we met several times at Norwood to explore community benefits partnership.

We shared our concerns about ongoing impacts to the neighborhood, and they shared the ways that they could support our goal of utilizing a land trust for affordable housing or affordable home ownership, including funding, planning expertise, and networking.

We were very excited to try to work with them, and we welcomed their support, and we shared sincere flexibility on the partnership.

Despite us, Mill Street working in good faith after several productive meetings and after indicating our support for the affordable housing portion of the Catword URA, Norwood stopped communicating with us.

In hindsight, it feels like we are engaged just long enough to move the UAR process forward.

Public dollars invested through urban renewal projects should deliver clear measurable benefit to the community.

For Mill Street, this includes not just attainable, but affordable housing options, affordable pathways to ownership, prevention of displacement, and lasting neighborhood improvements.

Community benefits agreements or CBAs create a transparent way to have commitments between developers and community stakeholders, not just empty talk.

A CBA level commitment ensures meaningful shared value, and city council, all of you, have a responsibility to make sure that public dollars strengthen and protect the people who already live in that community.

Thank you.

Next up, we have Katie Miller.

Good day, council.

My name is Katie Miller.

I've lived in Mill Street for over four years.

I'm the neighborhood president.

I'm sorry, I'm the president of the neighborhood association, and I've been directly involved in every single neighborhood discussion with Norwood.

Being that I was in attendance of every meeting, I wanted to tell you all a little bit about how we got here.

Mill Street approached this developer respectfully and in good faith.

The first meeting was hosted at Poor Richards on May 23rd, 2025, where Norwood shot down the idea of a CBA almost immediately.

We agreed to this idea of a partnership that they presented in lieu of a CBA.

We attended meetings, proposed ideas, and tried to reach agreement without public pressure, even going above and beyond to fulfill every request of extra research and homework by Jeff Finn and Chris Jenkins, which required meeting several times a month as a group in addition to the face-to-face meetings with Norwood.

I, along with most everyone in this group, are working a full-time job.

In fact, my next paycheck will be much smaller because I'm here right now speaking to you.

I only say that to try to convey to you that I am here passionately and seriously.

I'm not here to waste time or public funds.

They reached out to us in June, maybe in Norwood, to ask us to support including the land on the south side of Moreno and the URA district for affordable housing.

We decided to offer that support so long as it was for long-term affordable housing and the neighborhood got to take a lead role in the decision making process around it.

Our last partnership meeting was on September 30th.

The meeting ended with several action items, one of which being that they would come back to our next meeting in mid-October with feedback for us on a comprehensive list of goals they had asked us to put together.

After that, to my knowledge, what began as a collaborative process ended with Jeff and Chris completely disengaging with the Mill Street neighborhood group.

While continuing to move forward with public approvals and speaking to community members about our partnership, even though we haven't actually decided on anything substantial to this day.

Neighborhood is Norwood has agreed to build attainable housing on the south side of Moreno, but many of the details of that project are yet to be determined.

And without meaningful partnership, we don't have faith that this will be done in a way that benefits our neighborhood.

This is why neighbors are here asking for you, City Council, to delay.

Not because we oppose development, but because informal partnerships with zero accountability and inconsistent communication do not produce the results Mill Street is looking for.

We are not here to waste time when public money is at stake.

A delay gives the city leverage to require Norwood to return to the table and negotiate a community benefits agreement that includes, for example, long-term housing, not just corporate jargon about an arbitrary term like attainability.

Delaying this vote ensures public dollars deliver public benefit.

We respectfully ask you to do what is fair, what is just, and what is for the people of Mill Street and Colorado Springs.

Please pause this vote.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next up, we have E.H.

Hoover.

Hi, good afternoon, Council.

Thank you for your time, presence, and attention's day.

My name is Hoover.

I'm sorry, ma'am.

I believe there was a question from Kimberly for that last.

Councilman Gold, I didn't see it pop up.

I'm sorry.

That's okay.

Thank you.

Thank you, Madam President, and thank you, Councilman O'Donnellson.

Um, Katie, right?

I I just want to confirm that I uh got a few of your data points correct.

You said that you guys met on May 25th, 2025, um, and a community benefit agreement was immediately not in um in question.

Okay.

And then from September 2025 that you've had limited to no conversation.

Yeah, our last meeting was on September.

Okay, great.

Thank you.

Hi.

Uh good afternoon, council.

Um, thank you for your time, attention, and presence today.

Um, my name is Hoover, and I'm a leader with the Mill Street Community Benefits All Coalition.

Uh, I've lived in Mill Street for 14 years.

When I moved to uh Colorado Springs in 2012, I started teaching at Fox Meadow Middle School in Harrison District 2, where I taught for nine years.

The home I found in Mill Street when I first arrived provided the affordable housing I needed to survive on a teacher's salary.

As I settled here, I quickly learned that affordable housing was a need for all educators, and I began to cultivate a community living space where teachers could live together affordably and could support one another through the ups and downs of teaching.

And so, over the course of the past 14 years in partnership with my landlords, I have helped facilitate and secure affordable housing for at least 29 educators in the duplex that I live in that we affectionately call the lodge.

Some stayed for a month as they got settled and found their footing in Colorado Springs.

Others have stayed for years.

Countless others have joined the lodge table for dinners, lesson plan sessions, and teacher mentorship events.

But regardless of the amount of time they stay, the experience is safe, stable, affordable, and community-oriented place to live in the Mill Street neighborhood.

To this day, the lodge remains a center of community for local educators.

I'm afraid, however, that is upscale development takes root in and around Mill Street.

My home won't remain the affordable haven for educators that's been growing for over a decade, as my landlords will be forced to raise rent to meet rising property uh taxes.

Educators need safe, stable, and affordable housing so that they can show up for our future generations day in and day out.

And so that's why I'm asking City Council to delay the approval of the Cascade and Moreno urban renewal area until Norwood sits down to negotiate a legally binding community benefit agreement, a CBA, with our coalition to ensure that public funds come with real public benefits.

Thank you so much for your time.

Next up, we have Kevin Dexter.

Okay.

Hi, my name is Kevin Dexter.

I own Sugar's Restaurant, which is a small little business in this neighborhood that we're talking about that's been there almost 25 years.

I want to say clearly that I totally agree this block needs revitalization.

It's a significant space, a dead space with real opportunity.

Um I might have hoped to see something take root there that downtown needs more urgently than yet another hotel.

From what I'm observing, before we increase capacity for visitors, we should invest in a cultural foundation that gives them a reason to come.

But that's a different can of worms.

Uh today I'm here to talk about relationships.

At Sugars, our first duty is to the neighborhood.

When we added a yurt, when we expanded our kitchen, when we applied for our liquor license and the subsequent modifications, any time we wanted to make a change that is regulated, we were required to engage the neighborhood.

Uh and all of the residents in the surrounding area in some capacity.

And they had the power to say no, and if they had, we would not have moved forward.

And that's not a burden, in my opinion.

That's responsible civic process and what it means to build something that belongs in a neighborhood instead of being imposed on one.

It's disappointing to learn that Norwood has ceased all communication with Mill Street Neighborhood Association.

And here's the question that I think many of us are asking.

Why is a luxury hotel backed by wealthy developers being considered for public funding without first demonstrating real functional alignment with the neighborhood it is entering.

This is not about being anti-development.

I understand that development can strengthen a city, but public money changes the equation.

Public subsidy demands public accountability.

When a project has a contentious relationship with its immediate neighbors, that should not be brushed aside as background noise.

That should be a big red flag, a warning light.

Right now, this neighborhood is organized and engaged, clearly, and largely opposed.

And if this moves forward with public incentives, despite that unified concern, the message will be clear whether intended or not.

Access to capital carries more weight than proximity, history, and lived investment.

That perception matters because trust in local government is built on the belief that standards are applied evenly.

Small businesses like mine are required to earn neighborhood buy-in before we create, and we accept that and we respect it and we operate within it.

So all we're asking is that the same principle apply here.

If a develop if a developer wants public dollars, they should first demonstrate good faith collaboration and genuine neighborhood support.

That should not be controversial, that should be baseline.

Good development strengthens neighborhoods, good governance holds small operators and large developers to the same values and public money should never outrun public trust.

So I urge the council to pause on allocating public funds for this project until a real working collaboration with the neighborhood association is not just initiative but established and thriving.

Thank you.

Next step.

We have Catherine Dorte.

Hello.

Uh good afternoon.

Catherine Duarte, uh Senior Vice President of Housing Development at Catholic Charities, though today I am speaking here as an ally and member of the Mill Street CBA coalition.

So I'd like to start by reiterating that this city is in an affordable housing crisis.

We are short attainable units for sure, but we desperately need affordable housing and have very few paths to create it without every level of subsidy available.

For folks making below 80% AMI, we are currently short nearly 18,000 units.

And in 2024, the city reported getting 1,879 affordable units in the pipeline using its 4.1 million dollar housing budget.

Status quo is clearly not getting us where we need to be.

We need our local officials to understand why every possible tool in our toolbox should be going toward preserving and creating affordability in every neighborhood.

So with that in mind, I'm here to talk about why this toolbox and this tool, namely the URA and its usage of TIFF, has not served residents responsibly or provided a transparent process.

Urban renewal as a practice dates back to the post-World War II years and is notorious for its history of being used to displace entire populations.

Many localities have modernized their processes to prevent repeating this history, but when you only follow the bare minimum procedures in state law without addressing displacement or affordability, the use of URA as an economic development tool can seem like doing surgery using a rock.

The effects of redevelopment, both good and bad, spill out of URA boundaries.

These districts don't exist in a vacuum.

They affect real people and can obliterate neighborhood affordability.

At the bare minimum, we have an ethical and economic responsibility to ensure that redevelopment does not harm people who live there or compromise the ability of future residents to live near work, school, or services.

What we know about the most livable cities is that they put people first.

And if we want to strive for excellence, we should re-incenvize redevelopment that benefits current residents, ensures stability, and creates room for future residents, including those who work the very hospitality and service jobs that this project creates.

The second structural issue is the lack of transparency and meaningful public participation required for developers to access tax increment financing.

TIFF is in fact a public subsidy, but you'd never know it with the lack of resident resources on the URA webpage, the convoluted financial language, or the ease with which a developer applicant can totally ignore residents.

If Norwood were to build this hotel without a URA designation, then after 25 years, our schools, libraries, city, and county should ostensibly have 10.3 million dollars more than they would have if council approves this.

But if they truly cannot do this without public subsidy, then why don't we divert the subsidy to help us close the 18,000 unit Capital A affordable housing gap?

And with no transparent process in place for residents to have a voice in URI decisions, we are asking council to press pause.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next up, we have Amber Young.

Hi, I'm Amber Young, a leader with the Mill Street Community Benefits All Coalition and first-time homeowner on the eponymous Mill Street.

I grew up in Colorado Springs, attended North Middle School, then Palmer High School, where I graduated from in 2006 and left town as soon as feasibly possible.

Something I had in common with the overwhelming majority of my peers.

The same peers who quite literally laughed in my face 10 years later when I told them I was moving home to the springs.

To my great surprise and my decade away, I learned I really love this city.

I wanted to come home and contribute to the community who raised me.

I first decided to buy a home in 2020 when rent soared and interest rates fell.

By all accounts, I am a successful adult.

I have a four-year degree, perfect credit score, and formidable income, yet it took me three years to find an affordable functional home in this city I love.

And I'll be honest, Mill Street was not my first second or third choice.

My realtor and I came to see my now home mostly to kill time between showings.

Yet I crossed Fionas, I named my home Fiona, had crossed Fiona's threshold and just knew I was home.

During the closing, I learned the last six owners of Fiona were single women just like me.

Women who saw the same little cottage on Mill Street with its big oak tree and cozy front porch and knew they were home.

In the two years since I signed all that very scary paperwork, I've learned Mill Street has a certain sort of magic in its asphalt and its people and its endurance and its integrity.

A century of people have taken root to rise in this magical neighborhood, much like the oak tree I love so much.

My neighbors range from octagenarians who bought their homes here in the 50s to renters who this neighborhood wouldn't be the same without.

Together we shelter the city's most vulnerable population who have no homes at all and hardly any hope except what we, their neighbors, can offer.

I'd like to protect the Mill Street legacy so that Colorado Springs will always have a magical enclave for its people to begin.

I'd like to ensure the path to homeownership in this amazing city is easier for future generations than it was for me.

I'd like you, my elected officials, to represent the will of your constituents.

And that's why I'm asking City Council to delay the approval of the Cascade and Marino Urban Renewal Area until Norwood sits down to negotiate a legally binding CBA with our coalition to ensure that public funds come with real public benefits.

Thank you.

Next up, we have Rochelle Taylor.

Good afternoon, Council.

My name's Rochelle Taylor, and I live in the Hillside neighborhood.

I am also a member of the Hillside Neighborhood Association's Board of Directors and an ally of the Mill Street Community Benefits All Coalition and the C Land Hillside Knob Hill Union Printers Home CBA Coalition.

I'm here today representing Hillside as an ally and to ask you to delay the approval of the Urban Renewal Authority's allocated dollars to build a luxury hotel bordering the Mill Street neighborhood.

I'm not asking that you vote no, but simply table a vote until Norwood resumes talks with neighbors of Mill Street to ensure that at least a portion of URA money is used to benefit the public good in a meaningful way.

A way that addresses the certain displacement of long-term working class people who are residents and are now experiencing like my neighborhood.

A frightful feeling as rapid development continues in Colorado Springs.

It's an issue close to my heart because, like I said, it's happening in my neighborhood.

I attended junior high school in the Lowell neighborhood that Mary mentioned, and not one of the houses of my friends remains in that neighborhood at this time.

In Hillside, we're experiencing new development to the west here in downtown, to the north on Pikes Peak, and to the west where UPH partners plans on building soon.

I'm concerned for my own displacement and that of my neighbors' relatives and friends who also live in Hillside in that neighborhood.

My parents arrived in Colorado Springs in 1959.

Excuse me, and were able to purchase a home in the Hillside neighborhood, which was at the time actually the south side of the city.

I consider it a blessing and perhaps destiny that I live in the house I grew up in after caring for my aging mother.

I think it's up to us to advocate for mine and other working class neighborhoods that are at risk as the city grows and thrives.

And let me be clear growth is good and growth is welcome, but not at the expense of any citizen in our city.

Many of the people I grew up with in Hillside have relocated to the southeast side of town, often to experience home ownership for the first time.

Those of us that remain are close to retirement, are caring for aging parents, or remain as renters.

It is in our hands to advocate for the opportunity to not have to relocate as a result of higher rents or property tax increases.

We should be able to work with private developers to ensure that the place that we call home, the place we have ownership.

And the place that we have historical pride in stays affordable for all citizens, regardless of their income.

Norwood will not drop out of their plan to build a luxury hotel if you table this today.

Thank you.

Next up, we have Savannah McDaniel.

Good afternoon.

My name is Savannah McDaniel, and I'm representing the Union Printers Home Community Benefits Agreement Coalition, an ally of the Mill Street neighborhood and a member of the Mill Street Community Benefits All Coalition.

The Union Printers Home Community Benefits Agreement Coalition is made up of residents, community organizations, and small business owners in the Knob Hill, Hillside, and Cainland neighborhoods, along with allies from across the city like Mill Street.

Our coalition's purpose is to ensure Knob Hill, Hillside, and Kayland are able to thrive amidst the billion, the billion-dollar redevelopment of the Union Printers Home.

This purpose necessitates community accountability for large-scale or luxury developments that create displacement pressure in our neighborhoods.

I'm here today to urge you to delay a vote on the Cascade and Moreno urban renewal area until Norwood negotiates a community benefits agreement with Mill Street.

The disappearance of affordability due to luxury development driving up area cost of living is a citywide issue.

We need to find meaningful solutions to preserve affordability, especially in historic working class neighborhoods like Mill Street or my neighborhood of Knob Hill.

A CBA creates true accountability to a neighborhood in which a developer is building, including providing public benefits in order to access public funding and tax breaks offered to developers through urban renewal.

Thank you for taking the time to hear my concerns.

I hope you'll delay a vote on today's URA proposal to ensure public money comes with real public benefits.

Next up, we have Matt Jones.

Good afternoon.

My name's Matt Jones.

I'm representing the Papeton neighborhood.

You might be asking yourself, why are their neighborhoods coming to speak on a project that's not in their backyards?

Well, the reality and the answer are simple.

These are our friends, these are our co-workers, these are the people that teach our kids.

These are the small business owners that create jobs that create the culture that makes our community and our city a special place.

And they're concerned.

You can hear their fear.

And when your friends ask for help, you show up.

And we're not just here to try to make a moral argument.

We're here because we're trying to figure out what we can do.

And we have been trying to address the strategy and find a new way forward.

And to be honest, it's disappointing.

We are hopeful that today would actually be a new way forward, something to celebrate, a way in which our community can work together, as you've heard.

No one here is against development.

We just want to make sure that it makes sense for everybody involved.

And that's why we're here asking for your help.

We need your leadership.

We're asking you to come, help us mediate a conversation, bring these groups to the table, because hopefully today is just the beginning of something.

Something new, something that helps everybody.

And as you can hear, this is not just isolated to the Mill Street neighborhood.

This is a conversation that's happening across the city and something that we're all committed to.

So we do sincerely appreciate your time, your attention.

We do hope that you're willing to consider delaying this vote and helping us to mediate this conversation for a community benefit agreement.

But thank you.

Thank you.

Next up we have Betty Bill.

Isn't that fun?

Thank you.

Yes, thank you.

Good afternoon, Council.

My name is Betty Field, and I am here today representing the Centennial Plaza Tenants Association, an ally of the Mill Street neighborhood and a member of the Mill Street Community Benefits All Coalition.

I'm here today to just lend voice to how important and effective it is when all parties involved listen to each other.

There is obviously a breakdown in communication when Mr.

Walker wants to argue about the word luxury on a hotel that's 180 dollars a night.

That's almost my rent.

So that's a luxury hotel for almost everybody in here, at least on this side.

That's a luxury hotel.

So if we don't understand the word luxury, if we can't understood understand the word luxury, I swear you have no idea what attainable is either.

No idea.

We'll talk.

When we get together, like the Centennial Plaza Tenants Association did with the Colorado Springs Housing Authority after lots of emails and protests and coming to visit y'all.

We heard them.

We asked questions.

They explained.

We had needs met, or at least understood why they weren't being met.

We let them know why these needs were so important.

The only people that want you to sit down and be quiet are the ones afraid of their delicate sensibilities being offended.

They don't want to admit that it's my own greed that motivates me.

And they don't want to admit they could be outright wrong.

What is good for the community as a whole will benefit our city, our county, and our state.

But most of the folks back here, I bet you were essential workers during the pandemic.

You're threatening their homes.

You depended on them now, then, and are turning your backs on them now.

We're not asking for you to say no, we're not asking you to completely close the door on this.

All we're asking for is to be heard.

And as my t-shirt says, working together works.

Thank you for your time.

Next up is Susan Bolden.

Councilman Donaldson.

Yeah, thanks, uh, Madam President.

I just want to clarify a point, uh Jariah.

Was it?

I think you need to be at the microphone just to answer it.

And you'll get to raise the microphone, too.

You get to use the little button.

I'm sorry.

You're fine.

No, no, no, no.

No, you're fine.

I was gonna say, like, why isn't it going back up?

Just gold it's tell me when.

That's fine.

No, sir.

Was the uh projected room rate at the hotel 108 or 180?

It it has it has different rates, but you can get rooms for I think around 189.

That's what they're doing.

So it is the offer.

It's 189.

Okay, I heard it wrong first time.

I heard 108.

So thank you.

Yep, thanks.

Clarity, because I I'm pretty positive.

I heard the same thing.

Is it 108 or 180?

180.

There we go.

Yeah.

So when you look at like Denver hotel rates, it's for Denver.

Now it might, you know, we see how the market bears down here, but for Denver, that is a relatively affordable rate for a hotel.

Next up we have um Susan Buldock.

Hello again.

Oh uh good afternoon.

Susan Balduke, Colorado Springs Faith Table.

I'm here to ask you to delay the granting of urban renewal funds until Norwood works with the Mill Street community.

This is not really about a hotel.

This is about whether this community has a voice in the future of their homes.

Every year, as you know, we lose affordable housing because of redevelopment.

We can't really build our way out of a housing crisis if we allow the continuous loss of affordable housing.

Um, and when these vulnerable people are displaced, there's not a lot of options for them, not too many places for them to go.

I followed the Mill Street community for several years, and they've done their due diligence and their research on what can save their neighborhood, preserve this historic neighborhood, and the organizers are well known in the community for their work on affordable housing.

Um the community benefits agreement is um a well-recognized urban planning tool to help mitigate displacement, and your planning department could talk more about that.

But here in Colorado Springs, 23% of our housing stock was built before 1970.

And if you add the 1970s to that, it's 40 percent.

So clearly this is um an issue that could use more policy discussion, but in the meantime, um we need all of our developers, and in this case we need Norwood to come to the table and to be part of the solution.

They're getting taxpayer-funded grants, which are important to help in new development.

They're getting a 25-year tax break, and nobody is against the hotel.

They're against these people not having a voice, and community benefits agreements are probably in you will probably be in the uh housing action plan because it's very well recognized way to mitigate displacement.

Um we ask that Norwood be a good neighbor and be part of the solution.

Please delay approval of these funds to protect affordable housing for the residents that deserve a voice in the future of their community.

Thank you.

Next up, we have Danielle Smith.

No worries.

Hi, I'm Daniel Smith.

I also grew up in Colorado Springs and graduated from Palmer High School.

When we moved back, our uh realtor didn't show us the Mill Street neighborhood, but I'm starting to wish they had.

Um I'm a resident of Council District 5, a pastor at Ascension Lutheran Church and a member of the Colorado Springs Faith Table.

I'm asking you today to delay the Moreno and Cascade Urban Renewal Plan.

The most important ethical value in my life is the idea of a neighbor.

The idea that we are not individuals in constant competition, but we are a community that can care for one another.

The value undergirds the service and witness of the many faith traditions behind me today.

It's also the same value that makes vibrant, diverse, and compassionate cities possible.

I bet it's why many of you decided to serve on council.

Norwood is seeking to use public dollars to redevelop a historic area of our city that has perpetually lacked public investment.

I'm glad to see interest in investing in this area, except the investment seems to be in the area, not the people who live there.

For years, our neighbors in Mill Street have sought a community benefits agreement so that the redevelopment of their neighborhood invests in them without a community benefits agreement.

The redevelopment of Mill Street neighborhood and its associated displacement will reduce our already meager supply of affordable housing and displaced neighbors from their own homes.

But with a community benefits agreement, the redevelopment of the Mill Street neighborhood can support our neighbors while also improving our city and provide profit for the developer.

I'm in support of redevelopment.

Let's do it in a way that honors our responsibility to the neighbor.

When public funds are used, the public good must be the goal, and the public good is the good of the neighbor.

Please delay this proposal until the developer enters into a community benefits agreement with the neighbors who live there so they can have a seat at the table.

Thank you.

Next up is Paula Stecker.

Good afternoon, honorable counselors and fellow citizens.

And where we continue to work for a community where each person is respected and valued.

And today I'm speaking on behalf of our ally, the Mill Street Community Benefits for All Coalition.

There we go.

Who is asking you to delay this vote until Norward comes to the table and works on a community benefits agreement.

In the Elevate Downtown Plan published this month, our city recognizes our troubled history of displacing working class communities.

It cites specific examples, including the raising of the Conejos neighborhood to make way for the America the Beautiful park back in the 2000s, and says that the lessons learned from these practices should be considered as guidance for change occurring throughout the city.

It supports the building of affordable housing in downtown area financed by government funds.

The plan wants to create a community where you want to be part of.

Nancy had the maps come up, so you got a chance to see that.

The plan includes a map of downtown districts, which Norwood cited in their work session presentation to council for this URA proposal.

It has troubling implications for Mill Street.

It labels the north area of Fountain Boulevard as the South End and the area south of it as Mill Street.

Which Norwood was happy.

So the other map, Norwood was happy to cite in this presentation, and it cuts 12 square blocks out of Mill Street.

Disregarding the neighborhood plan that city staff and neighbors worked so hard on over multiple years.

Given this, it's easy to understand why neighbors might feel that developers and city government have a plan for the future of the neighborhood that doesn't consider their interests and doesn't and seeks to displace them in the wonderful existing community they've built over generations.

In respect to the Mill Street community, I urge you to delay approval of this urban renewal proposal.

Thank you.

Council McGold.

Um I have a clarifying question.

So if I understand correctly, there is a neighborhood plan that was adopted by the city that may not have been integrated into the work that's happening.

Maybe I'm not sure who to ask the clarifying question to.

Maybe Kevin Walker, who noticed that I locked eyes with him on that.

Thanks, Kevin.