Good morning.

Welcome to the City of Colorado Springs City Council meeting for Tuesday, March tenth, twenty twenty-six.

Will the clerk please call the roll?

Councilmember Bailey.

Here.

Councilmember Crow Iverson.

Here.

Councilmember Donaldson.

Here.

Councilmember Gold.

Here I am.

Councilmember Henjam.

Present.

Councilmember Lion Weber.

Here.

Councilmember Rainey.

Here.

Council Member Risley.

Here.

Councilmember Williams.

Here.

All nine present.

Please join us for the invocation and the Pledge of Allegiance.

And today we are joined by Pastor Hartsock from the First Presbyterian Church.

Would you pray with me in Sovereign God?

I pray that you will give our city council forward.

Amen.

Wishing to address council.

Is there anyone who wishes to pull off an item from the consent calendar?

Seeing none, um, we need oh I have a motion from Councilman Risley and a second from Councilman Gold.

All in favor say aye.

All opposed.

Moving on to 5A recognitions.

Will the clerk please read item 5A into the record?

City Council appointments to boards, commissions, and committees.

So this morning we have a Pikes Peak Regional Building Department Licensing Committee.

Our council liaison, Brian Risley recommends a reappointment of Maria Miller to the R PPRBD licensed committee.

Councilman Risley, do you have any comments?

Uh no, other than just to thank Ms.

Miller for her service to the PPRBD and to our community.

Um it's always really important to have great volunteers, and she's been a uh perennial volunteer and supporter of um of this uh community and region.

So I want to thank her for that.

I have a motion from Councilman Linewimber and a second from Councilman Ray Rainey.

Um let's vote.

Motion passes nine to zero.

Moving on to Mayor's business.

Do we have mayor's business file?

Uh, just a bit of good news.

There was a recent article in the Denver Gazette about a study uh done that ranked cities based on the ease or difficulty in which people could uh navigate them.

Uh in other words, get from point A to point B.

Um just so happens at Colorado Springs, ranked number one in the nation.

Um that obviously does not happen overnight.

Um, two decades of PPRTA funding helps that um and commendations to the women and men delivering all those capital projects over over those years.

Um, deserve thanks for that.

So anyway, I just wanted to pass that good news on.

Thank you.

Moving on to item 9A.

Will the clerk please read item 9A into the record?

Ordinance number 2608, amending Section 110 camping on public property, prohibited and repealing section 11 camping and waste deposit within public stream, public stream repairing zone prohibited part one, general offenses of article six, offenses affecting property, and repealing section 404 camping restrictions of part four, offenses relating to persons, article nine, park offenses, chapter nine, public offenses of the code of the city of Colorado's rank 2001 is amended, pertaining to camp room regulation and providing penalties.

This is the second reading of the ordinance.

Do I have any council members that with questions before public comment?

Seeing none, we will move on to public comment.

Um, first up, we have um Christy Milligan.

Good morning.

Christy, can you make sure the green button is on so we can hear you?

Down there you go.

Uh-huh.

Good morning, council members.

Thank you for having me here today.

I am Christy Milligan.

I'm the CEO of West Side Cares, and I am here because we all want safe communities.

I have four things that I want to share with you and three minutes to do it, so I'll try to be brief.

The first thing I want to commend one thing that I have overwhelmingly heard from this council about this ordinance is that you want to connect people with resources.

That is a humane impulse.

It is beautiful, and I applaud it.

However, last Tuesday, I sat in my office with a man who was desperate to get off the streets.

And it was really painful.

It's painful every single time.

I have to tell him that helping resources, housing opportunities, are virtually non-existent in this community.

That's the reality.

You have heard from people who have told you that it has taken them two or more years to move from homelessness into housing after connecting with resources.

The resources that you want people to connect to do not yet exist.

That's the truth, and you need to know it.

This community last year in July had 3,800 people sign up for housing choice vouchers.

And owing to budget cuts, the Colorado Springs Housing Authority has not issued a single one.

Last year, West Side Cares talked to 539 people who were desperate to get into housing.

And by some miracle, we were able to place 50 of those people.

The number that sticks with me though is the 489 that we were unable to place.

You all don't have to look them in the face and tell them not to give up hope, but I do.

Two, there can be a chasm between intention and impact.

It is not the intention or even the letter of this policy to deprive people of their last valuable asset.

But nine years of experience tells me that that will be the impact.

There are unintended consequences that merit deeper consideration than a yes vote today would allow.

Three, here we agree.

Nobody wants to be living in their cars, and nobody wants people living in their cars.

Nobody sleeping in their vehicle is doing so because they have a better option.

In a city that is short, 27,000 affordable housing units and new evictions every day, it is not surprising that people would resort to living in their vehicles.

What is surprising is that we can be so quick to condemn the very people who are, and let me be really clear here, easing our affordable housing crisis with their personal property.

They're using their last valuable asset to stay alive and reduce the strain on our broken systems.

And four, most importantly, between two and seven times a week, West Side Cares receives phone calls or in-person inquiries from people who are living in their cars, often working from their cars.

They are reaching out for resources, and the one thing they want to know is where can I safely and legally park when I'm getting my life back in order?

These are people who want to be safe and obey the law, and for nine years I have had to tell them there is nowhere safe or legal.

I know you all are students of economic policy.

The rational actor theory says that if we give people a better option, they will take it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next up, we have Susan Caldwell.

I'm so nervous.

Hello.

Good morning, City Council.

Thank you for letting me have the opportunity to speak to you regarding the um the camping car vehicles.

I just wanted to start out the reason why I'm talking today is because I moved specifically to a park up north because of the beauty that the park offers, all the dog walkers, the bikers, the family events, the um sports events and um all the family gatherings.

It's just feels so wholesome and um vibrant.

Um the city tries best to have the family-friendly and well-kept parks, and I believe by allowing the homelessness into the vehicles, it is no longer safe or a desirable place to bring families and gatherings together.

Um there are I do believe there are wonderful help outreach programs and great public assistance out there for them to get them off the streets and out of their vehicles.

Um, I do believe they shouldn't be allowed to car camp in any of the public neighborhoods where we pay taxes to keep these areas safe and clean.

As a mother and a grandmother and the taxpayer, I shouldn't have to worry about my neighborhood by having car camping next to my home, knowing that they pose a threat to drugs, alcohol, and safety every day.

Um, personally, with the car camping, they look into neighborhoods, into homes, and I feel violated if that's if that's the situation.

As you can see above the pictures that are provided, this gentleman has been living at a uh park up north of Colorado Springs and since October of 2025.

Um he parks his van at the same location every day overnight for the last six months.

And as you can see, he has a thank you sign on the back of his van.

He advertises a mobile grooming business, which um I don't I contacted the Department of Acuculture and they stated that they needed some type of license or certificate in order to have a mobile unit, which he possibly could.

I don't know.

Um this gentleman also does have an active police case against him, and I won't go into detail regarding that.

Um as we the last few months, he now has um generated more car camping with another person that is also homeless in their vehicle.

Um in conclusion, I I do hope that the orders band is passed for non-car camping.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Next up, we have Zach Mangold.

Hello, thank you for letting me speak today.

Um I'm here against the passing of this ordinance.

I'm deeply concerned as a member of the community that these people have nowhere to go.

Um it's really concerning to me, and I think you know, everyone's first instinct if you voted yes on this would be where are these people going to be replaced to, where are we gonna move them?

Do we have facilities, open parking spots, empty lots that we can convert to safe camping areas?

Do we have anything that we can do so that these people are not punished for doing everything that they can just to survive?

Being in your car is difficult, and it is the last vestige of really yourself and your dignity before you're on the street.

Once you no longer have a car, you know, even in a shelter, people have concerns about if my stuff gets stolen, I'm not as private in your car.

You can lock your car.

You can have some semblance of safety for yourself and maybe even your child if that's your situation.

This ordinance, in my opinion, and the opinion of a lot of other constituents would criminalize homelessness, even if it's not the letter of the law.

Even if the letter of the law is to regulate camping, I think that is really just saying the same thing.

It's saying I'm eating a large Clementine, not an orange.

When you are making it, when you are making penalties for people just trying to do their best in an economy that we are all struggling in, we are all going to the grocery store feeling the cost of groceries.

We are all seeing housing prices increase.

We are not in an era where the average American, the average Colorado Springs citizen, is just doing great.

This is a moment that calls for compassion, and that's what our program to keep downtown clean.

The partnership that Mayor Yemi just renewed uh early this year has shown excellent results.

Of the incidents that they have responded to, only 3% required law enforcement involvement.

This bill is going to take law enforcement's limited resources and spread them even thinner.

Our police, our EMTs, they don't have unlimited time and unlimited resources.

We are going to take those resources and push them to a scenario where, as we've seen through the downtown partnership, that's clearly been successful at both compassion and coordination when ensuring public safety.

We're gonna now involve law enforcement in all of those situations.

It's going to escalate everything, both for our homeless community as well as for law enforcement.

And I think in an effort to make sure that law enforcement resources are used appropriately and compassionately.

Um, I hope that you could reconsider and vote against this bill.

Thanks.

Next up, we have KP Fulmer.

Oh, council.

I got one of your pamphlets and I have a blank page on the back.

Couldn't find uh one space, so we didn't have to waste that money.

Uh in reference to 96110, the proposal, I request the following to be removed.

Uh removing the legislative decoration from the ordinance is as it just repeats the city council's duties for every law and ordinance it takes under consideration.

The attachment to the regular amendment agenda section nine, hyperlink final council presentation.

I implore you to add a restriction of a vehicle cannot be towed because of this violation of the ordinance alone.

Uh 96110B, 1D and 1H, I request removal in its entirety.

If I'm wanting to have a picnic in one of the springs, wonderful outdoor areas, having food, water, eating utensils, and public property or per personal property, shouldn't be a camping violation under this ordinance.

I also suggest removing blankets and sheets from some subsection 1A, as these are terms in reference to religious dressings or commonly used items in conjunction with picnics and baseball games.

Section four of this ordinance defines public property as also grounds as city managed, leased, and maintained.

This definition could be understood as a person would also be in violation of this statute on private property.

Effectively handcuffing private owners from providing paid services.

For section C 1B, I suggest this violation be met with a higher punishment.

If a person is polluting with any waste, including body excrements of any kind into the waterways, creeks, and streams of this city, they should have more access to corrections.

I also humbly request section C3 be removed completely, but at the very least, remove section C3C.

Saying that a previous citation of this ordinance is lead, for you already knew this violation is a waste of reprinting.

And if you're in favor of bringing back common sentence, let's not make con let's make it common, not a line item on a book.

Finally, on section F, the council might have made a mistake clause.

It should be removed.

I've heard council members and many citizens state that this criminal law is going to make more clear and useful than its predecessor.

But then you put in these 83 additional words to say, oops, uh if I messed up.

Also, language like includes but not limited to.

Let's not keep the problems that got us here in the first place.

Section F should never be instituted into law by council.

Council members, I pray for you.

I pray for your duties of representing the people of Colorado Springs are pure and not from self-interest.

America's mountains tall, above our city, and let's take a step to make sure that we represent what that means and how Colorado Springs embodies the core values of America.

Thank you.

Next up we have Colleen Marize.

Good morning, Council.

My name is Colin Marizzi.

I prefer to go by McCurtain.

My name, I am a lead organizer for a local community campaign, but I stand here this morning as a resident of Colorado Springs for six years, the last two which I have spent as a member of our homeless community.

I would like to dedicate my time to the unseen neighbors among us.

This is invisible flesh, unseen souls, written by Colleen McGurton.

You see my cardboard cradle, my threadbare shroud, and whisper junkie without speaking aloud.

A label you pin like a kick to my ribs.

Yeah, you never asked how the fall came to be.

I was someone with a name, not a bum, a handshake, a laugh, proud of where I was from, till the hospital bills bled the life from my hands, and the landlord's greed still the fate I now stand.

Or maybe I do hold the dragon's old chains, a sickness you scorn while ignoring my pains.

Does a fever make evil the bones it shakes through?

Or is it just human what it is that is lost in you?

You think I don't weep when I wade through your stairs?

That concrete won't echo how much no one cares.

Each step that you sidestep, each glance sharp as knives, says you are a ghost, not a life meant to thrive.

But listen, listen, the worst of the wait isn't hunger or winter, but it's love that comes late.

Too late for the job, for the rent, the relapse, too late for the hand that just needed a grasp.

You think condemnation will scour me clean?

It's the lack of each other that drowns wilder dreams.

What happened to the kindness of those who still have a good soul to hold?

What happened to the village that once kept us whole?

Now it's thrones to conquer and hearts turned to stone, while the world cracks beneath us, and we're all left feeling alone.

For stories, not snippet, not stigmas, still gasping for air.

So next time you see me pretend that I'm there, not homeless, not addict, just someone to hold, only humans still tethered to the same sky, not a stain, not a burden, but a story asking why.

So why the harsh words, why the cold judging stare?

Why not kindness a hand, a moment to share?

So spare the sharp words, reach with a steady judgment-free hand.

Show kindness, give encouragement, help them to stand before the last warmth fades, before the heart turns to ice, before the ones who've held to hope lose their final fight before the darkness grinds their light into spite.

Be the spark that whispers, you're not alone.

Be the voice that says rise.

Your scars are not your shame.

The world needs the spark no shadow could claim.

Will you answer when the light calls through the night?

Your higher self whispers, take my hand, will walk into the light.

My three minutes are almost up, but I leave you with the reality of this ordinance on the car camping ordinance.

Council, you have publicly admitted that the Colorado Springs lacks the resources to help our most vulnerable.

As someone who has lived this for two years, I t I tell you, responding to that lack by criminalizing our only shelter is a betrayal of the higher self we just spoke of.

I ask this council to choose humanity over status.

Poverty is not a crime.

Please follow Councilman Henjam and Councilman Gold's example and vote no for this ordinance.

Thank you.

Next up we have Michael Onstat on Stad.

I hope I got that right.

Second time was straight on.

Thank you.

Members of the council, my community, my neighbors, the poets in the room.

That's a hard act to follow, ma'am.

Um my name is Michael Onstead.

Um, my friends call me Rev.

And I'm a curator of social archaeology.

I also slur when I'm not drunk, it sucks.

Um I stand in front of where I speak today.

It's a bit of a time paradox, but so is our shared entanglement.

Um before I begin, I ask for a brief moment of silence for our neighbors who don't have houses, who have cars to sleep in, shelters.

Also for Officer Jimenez, she's not here, she's at the Falcon Police Department.

She's one of my greatest supports.

I want to thank her here on record.

I live by what I call the damaged good manifesto.

We don't discard our neighbors because they look different or they're housed differently.

And in the spirit of the unsteady hand and honoring Mr.

Letterman, a Jedi, here are the top 10 discrepancies for ordinance 2559 or 590, excuse me for the record, 25, 590.

Number 10, notice violation.

You gave 14 days, not 15.

Number nine.

How am I doing on time?

Oh, I'm just right.

Number nine.

May 12th breach.

Today breaks public trust.

Number eight, parking paradox, banning survival before safe zones exist.

Number seven, void for vagueness.

This should be voided for vagueness.

There are no maps to define boundaries.

That's an issue.

It's not very clear to me where I can and can't sleep, but I have a house, so it's not really an issue for me.

Um, there's the de facto fines, impoundment costs of $500.

I don't think that's cool.

Don't think that's your rules.

Uh, this did I get the silo effect?

No.

No social impact assessment was conducted.

Was that conducted?

Am I wrong?

Should I be clarified?

I'd like to clarify.

Is that correct?

I don't know.

It doesn't matter at this point.

It was seven to two.

That's embarrassing for us as a community.

Uh targeted enforcement.

This creates constitutional conflicts.

Let's be honest.

Do process failure, affirmative defense is meaningless without counsel.

Residency seizure, number one.

I stopped counting.

I lost track.

I'm not as good as Dave yet.

I'm working on the double-breasted still.

Residency seizure number one.

These are homes.

Caesar is a liability.

I urge you to postpone this reading.

Do not discard these lines.

Sorry, I forgot about you guys over here.

That's dirty trick.

Oh email, I didn't have time to format this because one of my friends was fixing my truck.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next up we have Gerald Waggin.

I hope I said that correctly.

Good morning.

Uh first I just want to thank all of you members of the council for your service to our community.

Um, I know it's not an easy job.

Uh my name is Father Jared Waugh.

I'm a priest of the Congregation of Holy Cross, and I'm the pastor of Sacred Heart Parish uh in Old Colorado City.

I just have uh some prepared remarks I wanted to share.

I have served as pastor of Sacred Heart in Old Colorado City for just over three years.

Our parish is very involved in providing resources to our local community, especially through our food pantry, which serves about 1,000 households every month.

And we do that in only about four hours a week, and through our local partnerships with our neighbors at the Sanctuary Church, our partnerships with Westside CARES and many other churches and local organizations.

Um, especially uh the great shower to the people program over at Sanctuary, where a lot of my parishioners are volunteers as well.

We get to know a lot of our neighbors who live outside or in their vehicles.

We also know many people who the first time that we met them were in one of those situations, but through hard work and perseverance, we're able to get into housing by accessing the resources that are available in our city.

And if it weren't for that minimal safety net, some of those folks may not have survived.

There is a scripture passage that is on my mind and heart as I follow the city's consideration of passing these ordinances.

And it comes to us from the gospel of Luke, where Jesus is debating the scholars of the law of his own time.

He says, Woe to you, scholars of the law, for you bind up heavy burdens that are hard to bear, but you yourselves do not lift a finger to ease them.

Our neighbors who find themselves living out of their vehicles are already bearing heavy burdens, burdens which relatively few of us in this room I would submit have experienced ourselves.

I share what I read is the city council's goal of providing pathways for people to transition from living on the street or in vehicles into more sustainable housing.

But if our city is about to impose a new set of great and heavy burdens on those least able to bear them, and we are not at the same time providing new and more easily accessible resources and routes out of those situations, then we are adding burdens and not lifting a finger to actually help.

Please do not close doors without opening any.

Thank you.

Next up we have Ashley Allinger.

Good morning.

This morning we've heard ethical and moral objections to the span.

We've heard that this ordinance harms our neighbors.

But I want to bring to the table another unintended consequence.

The subjugation of some of those that this city claims to revere.

In practice, they, like many other residents of Colorado Springs, fall into a difficult gap.

They earn too much to qualify for assistance programs, yet not enough to absorb a sudden disruption in housing.

As stated earlier, limited to no resources exist to help.

Also, like many others who live in their cars, the soldier in this situation is rarely the stereotype people imagine.

Often they hold a civilian job and are dependable.

They show up at the right time, the right place in the right uniform.

In the two cases I've been thinking of, the unit leadership only found out that their soldier was experiencing homelessness because another soldier noticed that they were sleeping in their cars on unit property.

I've been asked to speak to soldiers in these moments of crisis, and my first duty is to listen.

And after that, if they're willing, then I can inform key members of the team, the commander or a buddy.

Sometimes someone will step in and offer a guest room or a couch.

I know that I have personally purchased groceries for people in the situation so they could put their money towards rent, and I know that commanders have done the same.

These acts reflect genuine care among service members, but they are not a reliable safety net.

We are missing reliable safety nets in our city.

In the cases referenced, uh, these people found housing within two weeks.

And their situation is not unique.

They are not dissimilar from our other neighbors spoken about here today.

Had they experienced additional hardship from this ordinance, that undoubtedly would not have been the case.

They would be worse off, but still tied to our city, perpetually in a negative feedback loop.

When instability is met with penalties, fees, or legal consequences, the path back to stability becomes significantly steeper.

I know this council wants our city to be safe and stable, healthy for our families and the people who live here.

But how does this ordinance help a person in crisis move towards that goal?

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Next up we have Aaron Drake.

First of all, I would like to say thank you for letting me do this today.

I really appreciate the time.

I'd like to start by saying that in life you try to give more than you take.

I don't think it matters where you're sitting, how much money's in your pocket, you give more than you take.

I actually was pre-law at one point.

I don't really have an agenda.

I came in today not at least trying to think about what I was gonna say and a little over all over the place.

I'm not gonna lie to you, but I do have three things I'd like to say.

I do have a proposal.

Um I believe a pay, I believe a work for shelter program could be done in the city.

I think we could be a sample program for the rest of the country.

I think that would be an option.

I think some of the contracts that are given out through the city for things like landscaping and picking up garbage, and I'm sure we could be creative with that.

Um, and that'd be an option.

And I think we could build a shelter, and I don't think people will be getting a free ride, because that's usually the issue.

Um I see both sides.

Um, and I think that we could have a job opportunity in return for shelter.

I don't see that anybody else is coming up with an option or solutions.

And I know a lot of people in this room are smarter than me.

I get that, but I'm trying to come up with a solution.

So my time is limited.

So I would like to tell you a little bit about me.

I was fully employed for 15 years up until six months ago.

I was wrongfully dismissed.

I cannot legally get into the details of that.

I have been looking for work.

I put in 35 job applications last week alone.

I do a job interviews.

The new AI ROM is tough for me.

I'm 55.

You don't really get to see people face to face like this.

That's why I love these seeing these faces today.

I'm just gonna be honest.

Makes my day.

I'm living in my van and I'm doing my best.

And I think that there's a future that's bright for me.

But not if I get impounded and get started getting tickets in the next two weeks while I'm looking for jobs.

And even Rampart has made it where you can't live up there.

I'm a prospector too, so I figured I'll live up there hope for crystals, blah, blah, blah.

Come down for work, apply for jobs all day long.

You can't even go up there anymore.

So I'll pay for parking.

There's not an alternative.

All we're doing with this, and I and I love the fact that you're listening is we're putting more people homeless.

We're making more people homeless that are trying to.

We're in that transition period.

We're workers, people are working.

I live by Safeway.

There's a guy that's disabled, he's a veteran, he lives in his van.

He's gonna be put out on the street in his wheelchair.

My other friend just had triple bypass surgery.

He works but can't pay with his disability amount to be in an apartment right now.

He's trying.

He's got dogs, it's an issue.

But my point is, all this is gonna do is make more people homeless.

Our homeless situation is already bad enough.

Last thing I'll leave you with this is give more than you take in life.

I've given to a hundred homeless people in the last month.

I give everything I have.

Money out of my pocket, clothes, I'm down to one jacket and one pants.

I I'm I I'm giving everything I can take to homeless.

And I and I think that that that program that I mentioned in the beginning, please consider that.

And and maybe I'll try to talk to somebody about it.

But uh, work for shelter program would work.

And and please consider changing your vote on this.

We're good people.

We really are.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Next up, we have Taylor Gray.

Morning, everybody.

Uh why are we here?

This is a waste of our time.

We have some.

Did anybody look at my act, the metadata act?

But we're here about the camping thing again.

Okay, we knew from the very beginning that we were adding things, not just consolidating, but adding the piece that was added, everyone came and spoke against.

And yet you still passed it.

That's where I don't understand.

You guys, you asked so many great questions.

You care.

I feel like Dave worked really hard on this particular ordinance.

And what we wanted to do was throw a little bit of control in there.

Like we wanted to give the police the ability to make someone move.

It's already inconvenient enough to move every 72 hours.

I talked about how my brother had to go and go up into the mountains because he had to continue to move his RV.

It is enough to keep people pushed to have the existing law that we had.

It was very important to consolidate everything.

Where are we allowed to do this?

Where are we allowed to do that?

Having just like the city be the same ordinance and everything, that makes sense.

But you guys knew that day when you voted that this was not okay.

And now the whole city's got to come together and go and rip it all apart.

It is so much harder to take down something that is already put up.

It we should have paused that, gone back and reworked it and separated the car piece from the rest of the consolidation.

I watched you guys not wait for the hotel to be built so that they could write a contract to make sure that that big business didn't screw the civilians living in the the low-income spot.

Like it just I don't even know how to explain to you guys my disappointment.

I mean you guys are all adults, and you all knew that this car thing, you just let it go through.

And you can't criminalize porness.

And I know you guys I've said a thousand things.

No, we're not criminalizing.

You are.

And no, police don't have to do these things, but they will.

Have you ever had a policeman screw you over because they can?

Because they didn't have a body camera on and they can sit there and point at you and say, you did this, and do okay.

I have.

I have faced criminal charges gone through our broken justice system because a policeman pointed at me and said that.

The same thing that goes big up to this ice stuff, and the same stuff that goes down to our own policeman that I respect in our city.

We can't have this.

It's not illegal to be poor.

Thank you.

Um, next up we have um Donna Wentz seeding time to Edie Ren.

Donna, do you seed your time?

Um, Idie Rin.

You will have nine minutes.

Good morning, council.

Uh good morning, uh Madam President, Council members.

Today I am requesting that you re-table the vote on the car camping ordinance.

Take it back to the original May meeting date or postpone it further out.

Your community providers have rose up to your challenge.

They are tirelessly and diligently working to create solutions.

Funding is coming in, and new opportunities of housing our most vulnerable neighbors are taking place.

Colorado weather is unpredictable for extreme cold conditions right now, which would pose a crisis for the unhoused and our city.

More time is needed.

We table the vote or vote no on the car camping ban ordinance today.

And now I'd like to just turn to my uh community and address my community for for a moment.

Community members, your concerns for your neighbors, your neighborhoods are validated and heard.

Please be patient.

Give our homeless loved ones grace.

There are no stones to be thrown here.

All positive ideas or solutions you have are welcome.

Community providers, I hope that you continue to join forces and create a database that provides up-to-date information between your organizations to build an even stronger resource community.

I pray that you do not lose sight of your oath to protect those in crisis, and that any funding you receive is properly used in expanding programs for our most valuable neighbors.

Community advocates, hold fast to your passion.

You are shifting systems and empowering humanity.

And to our most vulnerable loved ones on the street, unhoused, struggling in any capacity, you are seen.

You are important in a part of this community.

We need your help.

Clean up after yourselves.

Stand up for yourselves.

There is no reason to hide.

Break down the barrier of shame, fear, and embarrassment.

You have a responsibility to show up for yourselves and your community.

Ask for help for those of you with harsher cognitive deficit, boots on the ground programs are already out daily offering help, and more are being implemented to reach you.

In closing, opposing sides can have solidarity.

Ultimately, we are all on the same team with different positions to fill.

I have a quote to share by Ilia Prigoni.

When a system is far from equilibrium, small islands of coherence in a sea of chaos have the capacity to lift the entire system to a higher order.

That's all of us.

And we are perfectly capable of doing so, creating a successful system by working together.

We should no longer say that the system is broken.

We are the system.

Council members, I'm asking you again, please retable the vote to give us just more time to put programs together, or ultimately vote no on the ordinance today.

Thank you.

Thank you.

That is the end of citizens' comment on this item.

So we'll we'll bring it back up to the um diaspora council members' comments or questions.

Councilman Donaldson.

Yeah, thanks, Madam President.

Um this doesn't apply to RVs, RVs are already covered, RVs aren't allowed to be parked on the city streets except to unload or load up things into the RV.

So this doesn't apply to that.

Vehicles cannot be um seized or removed under this ordinance.

They could for some other reason, but not this ordinance in particular.

Um the police, uh, our attorneys, the municipal court will have discretion under this ordinance as to which, if any, penalty they enforce and why do we why are we doing this?

And why do we are we doing this?

Why do I think this is the right thing to do for the City of Colorado Springs for all the citizens?

I'll read you just a little piece of an email we've received.

And this came from a homeowner, a gentleman who lives on the west side near Wont Park, and he's asking the city for help.

And now this will be a quote from here on.

The situation continues to escalate.

My neighbors only call CSPD when there's an act of threat, such as a few months ago when a gentleman was threatening to kill his female companion, daring her to call the authorities because she knows they would not respond in time.

Or this is a different example, when they were lighting off explosives by the creek, shaking several of our houses late in the evening.

By the time someone arrives, the issue has typically moved on.

He then points out several recurring individuals and ongoing safety concerns.

An F 150 present since at least the summer, similar to the lady that spoke here today about a vehicle that's been in a park for months.

Individuals who have been contacted or relocated before, only to return shortly after.

Perhaps that's why we need a penalty.

Several neighbors have attempted to approach and offer support in the past.

But after I was assaulted, and then in parentheses, knocked to the ground, kicked and chased by multiple individuals back in July.

CSPD case is available.

Most have understandably backed away.

So we sometimes hear questions well, why don't people just come up to the cars and ask if they need help?

This is part of the reason citizens don't feel safe doing that.

The sense of safety on our trails and neighborhood streets has dropped sharply.

And to the fact that the city is now working to connect, and then he goes into a specific trail, the corridor deserves higher prioritization.

Environmental impact is all in his email.

There's another alarming piece.

Last spring, neighbors collectively pulled out a couch, a mattress, and more than a dozen contractor bags of trash from just two city blocks along the creek.

The trash accumulation near the current encampments along the creek is again unacceptable and worsening.

Neighbors have observed individuals openly defecating near the waterway.

Not exactly ideal for families with kids playing on the swing set at the park.

We love our water and waterways in Colorado, and it should never be allowed to degrade to this level.

Even when windows are closed, many of us can hear shouting, barking dogs, and disturbances at all hours.

This is directly behind a residential neighborhood, and the impact is constant.

And then he goes on.

And that's why I think we need to do this.

Is it a complete solution to homelessness?

Absolutely not.

It simply says you can't live in a vehicle in Colorado Springs for safety reasons, public sanitation reasons, and just trying to create order.

We do have resources for citizens.

There's also the simple option of staying with a family member, maybe parking in their driveway, a friends, some of the good people who have spoken here today.

Perhaps you can allow one of them to park at your house in your driveway.

Use your bathroom.

And I will remind you that we were absolutely polite and didn't interrupt or try to speak over you when you spoke.

So I'd simply ask for the same consideration.

Thank you, Madam President.

Councilman Henjam.

Thank you, Madam President.

So I I I appreciate the examples just provided by my fellow councilmember and actually the person who came to testify in support.

And uh and and I don't I don't think anybody condones that kind of behavior or feels safe around that behavior.

Um that being said, I guess what we don't really know is the percentage of those kinds of situations among the entire percentage of people who are in fact living in their cars as a way to keep their job and um have a shelter over their head.

And that's the tension uh that we find ourselves in here.

That is that is the um the real big challenge uh that we're facing.

And so I um I appreciate that.

And the reality is that this ordinance does, in fact, make it illegal to sleep in your car.

And it takes away a shelter for what we believe to be hundreds and hundreds of people, seniors, families with children, um, uh veterans, folks living in their car.

We we heard actually, and and thank you, Aaron, uh, for sharing and for uh working to bring solutions.

And um, and that's I think what we all want here is to find a way uh to work together.

We've heard very powerful testimony over the last uh couple of weeks, last um two weeks ago when in the first reading and today, and I'm very grateful for all of that testimony.

Quite a lot of that testimony has come from our faith community.

Um I think the conscience of this city of uh known as I I think you know, a very a very Christian city.

And I appreciate the uh reminder and the conscience of how we uh serve those uh who have less than we do.

Um this unfortunately sort of becomes a conversation about the haves and the haves nots, have nots.

We heard from Christy talking about the number of housing vouchers that have not resulted any need in it any housing.

The intention of this ordinance and yet the actual impact is is what we're I think is what we're really grappling with.

Um I think the opportunity in this ordinance is and what has happened and what I want to continue to have happen is to shine a light on these on these challenges that we face and on the lack of resources actually that we do have.

Um I I am gonna invite um Amy Cox to come up and speak to us a little bit.

Um I believe she's here.

Uh I want to talk about the session that we plan to have with providers.

We have been meeting with providers.

Uh we're working on a session with providers to help them understand how this ordinance actually works and how it will impact their services that they provide, as well as continue to identify the gaps in our system and how we can continue to work to fill those gaps because remember, the city of Colorado Springs is not a homeless provider.

We do not provide homes to the homeless.

We help connect people to services, and I would really appreciate Amy if you would uh speak a little bit about that, and then I have actually before I do that, because I'll probably lose uh track of this.

I think the other thing that we heard loud and clear, and we did hear this from essentially the entire provider group, that we need safe parking.

If we're going to have this ordinance, we need a place where we can refer people to park safely and with good sanitation.

Um that will not be something that the city provides, but um we providers are actually meeting and and working on how that how we might be able to, how providers might be able to provide that service.

So, Amy, I'll let you um take it from here if you wouldn't mind sharing some of those things.

Madam President, before uh before Amy, good morning, Amy.

Good morning before Amy speaks.

I think it's a little unusual.

I thought this was citizen comment.

We don't typically have council members uh asking department heads or members of the administration to come up and present.

There's uh there are questions about safe parking.

Uh I wouldn't want this to be a one-sided uh presentation if we're gonna do that.

I think others should be aware that's what we're gonna discuss, and we should we should have uh probably a work uh session meeting about that.

We did close citizens comment.

This is the second reading and and is there a conversation on the dais before we vote a second time.

Is that a standard practice?

Amongst council members.

Yes.

And council members uh can certainly invite a a staff member to come up and speak.

Can you keep it to three minutes?

I can.

Thank you.

Um thank you.

Amy Cox, Chief Housing and Homelessness Response Officer.

Uh in the administration strives to balance enforcement and compassion.

I think to Councilwoman Henrum's point, we do not generally operate programs.

We do have some outreach that we provide through the um fire department, but we work to facilitate connections, um, provide some funding to programs, and we do uh bring leadership to our system for the purpose of increasing housing exits so that we have a effective uh service delivery system.

There are we met with providers a few weeks ago um and we identified three uh three out uh three actions that we could take in terms we talked about expanding our resource directory and trying to create some sort of um application where we can actually identify where resources are available at real time so that folks are not spending their time calling um different providers and finding no resources are available.

We are currently have staff and providers across the community in a diversion training program at Changeline today, and looking at providing some flexible funding so that people can have uh our providers can be better trained to provide problem solving conversations and some flexible funding to people to solve their address their homelessness in real time.

Yeah, and and certainly um helping people restore sort of their dignity and agency in that process.

We've clarified the zoning requirements for safe parking so that if there is interest in the community of stepping forward with the safe parking program that we do have a handout and um clear guidelines for safe parking, and then finally we are working on an educational session to really uh explain to our community how ordinances, how these are um how citations are written and how um all they're adjudicated, so that everybody can start from a sort of ground level understanding of this ordinance and ordinances in general.

Um I think that's uh no, I I I appreciate you sharing those things, Amy.

I think it is important for the public to hear as we are getting ready to pass an ordinance that will become law um to have a greater understanding than just from this council, uh, some of the responses from the city.

So thank you very much for speaking, and thank you, Madam President, for allowing the time.

Thank you.

Councilman Lineweber.

Yeah, I think the big the big challenge here is that I mean we currently have laws in place already about camping, but it's very confusing.

It's a confusing network of what is allowed, what isn't allowed, where is it allowed, how is it allowed, where what's this, what's that.

We needed to simplify the bill to give our police force a tool that is understandable.

Um that's primarily what we're dealing with here today.

You know, I was just reflecting on the fact that fireworks are illegal in Colorado Springs, so we shouldn't have any, right?

But we do have fireworks.

So every street is shooting off fireworks, and yet that's totally illegal.

Okay.

The reality of this is we are still going to have people camping in their cars.

And we will still have police that will drive by and allow them to camp in their cars.

Our police officers, and I've talked to several, they really do have big hearts.

They see the challenges that people are dealing with.

And if anything, this really energizes the community about a problem that has been quiet, that has been unseen.

Um the main issue here is really about the fact that it's becoming more seen and more seen and more seen all the time.

And we have neighbors that really they don't want to use the parks the same or anything along those lines.

Um we have voters are asking us, please do something.

And so this I I don't think this moves the needle on much of anything other than giving our police force clear guidelines on what they can enforce or not enforce.

And often they're gonna be helping these individuals find a pathway, find um a resource, find a need.

Um, because so often when someone enters into this point of crisis, they don't know where to turn.

They don't know who to call.

They don't know how to start.

They're embarrassed.

It's a challenging situation.

I am not denying that whatsoever.

But what we need is clear accurate law that pertains to what fundamentally we wouldn't anyone would want.

None of us would want this.

And so um I think the clear part about this is this is really not about a person's status or anything like that.

This is about a regulation around the idea that should a city allow free camping any time.

I mean, should I go be able to park in front of your house and set up a camp?

No, we uh shouldn't.

It's it's really that simple.

It's just really about this is just a basic practice that a municipality should have in place.

So this is really, I feel more about a basic municipality statute that provides guidance to our law enforcement and allows them to be able to make our streets safer and also allows them to have a tool that was confusing before.

You know, were they camping a hundred feet from the stream, or was it 101 feet from the stream?

You know, I mean, these kind of confusions I think needed to be kind of brought together.

And so I think this is a really good ordinance.

I think that we clearly undoubtedly need to come up with better services.

We need to have better outcomes with the services that we currently have.

And we need to define and really pursue with intention places where people could park safely.

It would be great that a police officer could pull someone over.

Well, actually, they're already pulled over, but to kind of meet them on the street and say, hey, you know, you really can't camp here, but I've got a place for you.

Here's here's a card.

Here's the directions on how to get there, and talk to talk to Cindy when you get there because she's really helpful.

Um bringing it to a human level, I think is what's really gonna be important in this whole part.

Sometimes the government part is difficult because you have to think about the entire community.

And um, that's one of the challenges here is that we're we're dealing with a um we're dealing with individuals that tend to um have real challenges in their lives at this point, but that doesn't mean we can't have standards in our community, and this is just basically setting forth good standards.

So that's why I have and will continue to support this.

Um I have always supported this.

So um that's how um I kind of feel.

Thanks.

Seeing no other comments or questions from council members, I have a motion from Councilman Donaldson and a second from Councilman Williams.

Let's vote and then motion passes on a vote of seven to two.

Moving on to item 10A, will the clerk please read item 10a into the record?

An ordinance repealing ordinances ordinances numbers 0210 and 2192, thereby dissolving citizens transportation advisory board.

I do have one um member signed up for public comment on this item, Taylor Gray.

C tape never mind then.

I didn't what's CTAP?

I I thought I would hear people talk about it.

Um so yeah, let me talk about CTAP.

So you guys are making some decisions here.

Um, when I first found the door a couple weeks ago, now it's been a couple months, you know, I was trying to just be really not I I came in, you know, trying to call to action to get everybody to zoom out so that you can look back and understand that we're not in a normal time right now.

And I need to know that you guys are making good decisions.

I'm so disappointed.

It's like every single thing I've seen disappoints me.

And so, you know, when it comes to CTAP, I just need to know that you guys are making decisions that are based off of people's rights and the constitution and the laws of this the law of land, federal government, the state, the city, the person, and then your guys' thoughts get to come in.

In fact, you guys don't represent your own thoughts here, you represent us.

And I watch you guys, like David, who's not listening right now, but you are amazing, okay.

You you ask genuine questions, you pay attention, you care, and then you go and vote.

And I just make sense.

I you're charismatic, you always have some thoughtful joke almost.

I don't know Brandy as much.

I've seen you sitting a lot.

You've got to be a mom because you're keeping things under control in a good way.

I respect you.

Kimberly, I'm getting emails saying, hey, I'm glad I got your email.

This is Kimberly.

So, you know, when it comes to that data stuff, even just emailing someone, now you're my spam.

Dave, I know you think I probably don't like you, but you're actually probably my favorite.

Um, in fact, I want you to lead my bill.

100%.

And you, uh, David.

I want a Dave team, Dave and David.

Um because your incredible questions, you're in you care.

You also care.

You are passionate.

You always I like you, Dave.

You're probably my favorite on the stand.

I know it seems stupid with all the things I say, but it's the truth.

And Nancy, best listener, hands down.

Your ability to go and recap what is happening is incredible.

And Tom, you're always looking, you're always paying attention.

And you speak when it matters.

And I need I want all of you to be my friend.

I make good decisions.

You can't ask great questions and care and then go and vote.

Yes, it's illegal to sleep in a car.

Go CTAP or no CTAP.

Thank you.

Go CTAB.

We'll now bring it up to the diaspora.

Council member comments.

Yes.

Councilman Lion Weber.

Yes.

I just want to state that um, you know, I want to thank um all of the members of CTAB over the years.

I mean, CTAB is one of our first um um citizens um uh task force um for um now I'm now I'm blanking it out transportation advisory board.

Basically, the group was set up years ago, um, even um before we had a strong mayor position um to kind of give um uh have uh policy experts on us on a board to help us navigate good uh thinking when it comes to laying out our transportation throughout the city.

Well, since whenever we we just have a time where we have lot multiple ways for the city to get that kind of feedback from citizens on how different projects are coming forward, and um it's been more and more difficult to really assign a good uh clean project to use a uh committee to really um feed good information to council, and um I think there's gonna be a time or could be a time in the future where we may construct uh a group that's similar to what CTAB has been doing when that time arises.

But to try to hunt down a project for this group just to do just to fill their time just didn't seem very appropriate.

So um I I think it's just it's really hard to put this committee um away because it was one of our firsts, and um I think that's part of why I kind of supported keeping it for a while.

Um, but now I'm to the point where I feel like um I I think it has a neutral benefit.

Um I'm not sure um there's plenty of other ways that we can get citizen feedback on major projects, and um so for those reasons I I do support the idea of um of um repeat uh basically taking away C CTAB and um and finding other means of uh gathering citizen feedback and stuff about in those regards.

That's it.

Councilman Risley.

Thank you, madam president.

Um councilmember Leinweber stole a little bit of my thunder, but I I did want to chime in as a former um member of CTAB and former chair of CTAB that there was a time and place where that as a body really made a lot of sense and brought a lot of value to the community.

Um I'm thinking back to the days of the uh the city manager mayor form of government, and once we as a community switched to the strong mayor form of government, um CTAB started to begin began to lose some relevancy at that point.

Uh I think it still has over the years um provided some feedback and some level of input to city council, but uh it's um the benefit has changed, the need has changed, and as council member line member stated, there are now other avenues and better avenues, I think for uh community engagement around transportation and transit-related matters.

And so sentiment the sentimentality for me of CTAB is certainly a consideration, but when I look at what is the best and highest use of our volunteer hours and of uh modes of input to the process, I think there are some better ways out there that we can uh take advantage of those that are willing to serve.

So I I also support uh repealing CTAB and moving on to other ways of gathering community input.

Councilman Henjam.

Uh thank you, Madam President, and uh uh thank you, uh Pro Tem Risley for sharing your experience.

I think uh it's a good example of how serving on our community boards and commissions um actually can help move you toward uh uh elected office.

So um that experience.

I I don't know if that was part of Brian's story, but it it is true.

Um that's one way of uh learning more about how our government works, and I appreciate his comments very much.

To that point, I actually want to read to you an email that all of council received uh uh just yesterday uh a very astute um uh email that I think points to some of what you've been hearing from the other council members here.

Um dear counselors, I am writing to comment on the proposed dissolution of the Citizens Transportation Advisory Board, CTAB.

I have been a resident of Colorado Springs in Pikes Peak region since 2004.

I have lived in Middleshooks Run since 2016.

I recently completed a PhD dissertation on the subject of multimodal bicycle and pedestrian advisory bodies across the United States.

A motivating factor for my work was my observations of the former active transportation advisory committee, whose functions were absorbed by CTAB in the 2021 restructuring.

I think that was an attempt to also try to make it more relevant at that time.

I appreciate that the board intentionality included these non-motorized mode perspectives to support the diverse users of the city's transportation network, as was the original intent of CTAB.

The dissolution ordinance cites two justifications, expanding uh expanded stakeholder engagement channels and loss of legislative function.

I address each in turn.

On engagement channels, public engagement was not CTAB's primary mandate.

Ordinance 02101 charged the board with advising council and the city manager on transportation policy matters, including budget review, capital project prioritization, and assisting with long-range planning.

Advisory boards are designed to provide informed expert volunteer perspectives, allowing council members who cannot be specialist in all areas to make well-informed decisions.

A board member representing cyclists, for example, should understand how the diverse array of cyclists in Colorado Springs uses the transportation network, but their core function is expert advisory input, not serving as a public engagement channel.

These are distinct roles.

CTAB's functions and responsibilities were not revised in response to the city's change to a strong mayor form of government, which we just heard, which inherently changes how advisory bodies interact with city lead leadership.

Through my research, including interviews with members of advisory bodies in peer cities, I found that effective boards tend to have clearly defined responsibilities, strong relationships with council and city staff, and a shared understanding of how they contribute within within the city's decision-making structure.

Yet when I asked directly whether council members beyond council liaisons had ever solicited CTAB's advice, the answer was no, which could also be a result of the board not prioritizing relationship building.

Additionally, while the board's 2025 work plan includes policy-relevant topics, including the safety action plan and the role of transportation planning and land use decisions, there is a lack of historical meetings online suggesting a breakdown in administrative coordination rather than an obsolescence of the board's purpose.

Colorado Springs will fall behind its peers if it does not have a formal transportation advisory body.

I understand that council and staff bandwidth is constrained, and that the current form of CTAB wasn't working.

I urge council to treat this moment as an opportunity to design an advisory structure that genuinely reduces burden on council and staff, builds in clear working relationships, and produces meaningful recommendations.

The need for robust multimodal transportation network in Colorado Springs is too important to leave without structured citizen expertise supporting it.

Sincerely, Nicole O'Dell, PhD.

So I agree with a lot of what Nicole has said.

And I'm going to ask uh Gail Sternovant to come up in a moment.

Um, and she oversees uh she's the deputy director for public works, and she represents and will talk a little bit about how citizens can be engaged in transportation matters in the city.

And I think the key here is it is about building those relationships, and we want and need those relationships with the mayor's office, with the administration who make the decisions on transportation to continue to have a voice via your city council representation and via um the uh the the city administration and the staff who work diligently on our transportation system.

So um I I think I'm actually going to vote no on this more out of principle, not out of lack of support of our public works department of Gail of Todd Sturtevent of of Kerry um uh forgotten Carrie's last name.

Tell me, Gail.

Childress, Carrie Childress, who does work on multimodal transportation.

They are doing very important work and they are very committed to our transportation system.

I just think we need to keep this very much in the forefront as actually our uh acting chief of staff said this morning.

Apparently, Colorado Springs is number one in the country of uh cities to uh to get around in.

So we are doing some things really right.

And um uh anyway, with that, Gail, would you please uh come up and share a few things related to the history of CTAB and and where we're going from here?

Thanks.

Great, thank you, Councillor Henchum.

Um Madam President, members of council, thank you for having me today.

I do want to take a moment to thank uh the members that have served on CTAB and talk about the some of the major initiatives that they've uh participated in in the last two decades.

Um they first they played a major role um in shaping Colorado Springs transportation by helping uh staff go through a scoring process and developing projects that were included in the ballot measures for 2004, 2012, and 2022 for PPRTA.

This investment has transformed our local infrastructure and strengthened mobility across our community, kind of goes to how um Mr.

Eason mentioned earlier became number one in the the country.

Uh CTAB also contributed on major initiatives um to include the citywide truck route updates and most notably Connect COS, and that was the first comprehensive multimodal transportation plan in more than 20 years for our city.

Uh that plan was adopted by council in March of 2023 and has laid out a long-term vision uh for a transportation network that is safe, equitable, sustainable, reliable, accessible, and well connected for everyone who drives, walks, bikes, and uses transit.

So we would greatly appreciate uh CTAB's contributions and we have confidence that we have good foundation to help build um the transportation network of our um in our community in the future.

So thank you for volunteering.

Um I do want to mention that in the future that as Mr.

Leinwebber mentioned um at ad hoc committees or advisory committees can be formed as necessary to help provide input both to staff and to council as we make transportation decisions.

Um the one thing I will come in and add there are ways to be involved today if you choose to volunteer, um, whether it's through uh the bike Colorado Springs, who has monthly meetings with staff through the Parks Advisory Committee, there's quarterly trails committee, there's open meetings at the Pikes Peak Rural Transportation Authority or PPRTA.

And then we'll every time we have major transportation projects, we set up a stakeholder group that we're always looking for volunteers on that are to represent uh voices on uh as we make transportation decisions in our community.

So again, I'd like to thank those who volunteered already and know that there are opportunities to continue to volunteer and have an input in the future.

Uh thank you, Gail.

And before I hand it back to the president, are there any CTAB members in the audience?

I don't know if just so if there are.

June, you are past CTAB member.

Would you please stand up about how long?

Four years.

Four years on CTAB, June Waller.

All right, let's let's give June a hand.

Thank you for your service, June.

And to all the other CTAB members.

Okay, thank you, Madam President.

I see no more um comments from council members.

We have a motion from Councilman Donaldson and a second from Councilman Bailey.

Let's vote.

The motion passes seven to two.

We budged through the morning much quicker than we thought, and we have posted our public hearing um for one o'clock this afternoon.

So that will conclude um our morning business.

We will go into recess until one o'clock this afternoon, where we will uh good afternoon.

Welcome back to City Council session for March 10th, 2026.

Will the clerk please read item A 11A through 11C into the record altogether?

We will vote separately, but we're gonna read them in all together.

11A ordinance 26-07 to amend the zoning map of the city of Colorado Springs Retain, 8.27 acres, located within the two-block boundary, uh North Nevada Avenue, East St.

Brian Street, North Weber Street, and East Platte Avenue.

From single family, medium, multifamily, and office residential two, form-based zone, transition sector 2A.

11B ordinance 26-06 vacating the public rights away, known as East Boulder Street, consisting of approximately 0.92 acres located between North Nevada Avenue and North Weber.

11C, establishment of the District 11 Palmar High School land use plan for proposed civic uses consisting of approximately 8.27 acres located on the two blocks bound on North Nevada Avenue, East St.

Brain Street, North Weber, and East Platte Avenue.

So today's hearing will proceed as follows.

We'll hear have a presentation from the city staff.

The applicant presentation.

We'll have public comment in opposition.

We'll have an applicant rebuttal and we will have closing staff comments and back to the dais for council member questions and deliberation.

Councilman Henjam.

Uh thank you, Madam President.

Um actually I I just have a question in regards to the order of items, and um I understand we'll be voting on them separately, but in my preparation on these three different items, it really appeared to me that the vacation of the right of way is kind of a fulcrum decision related to the other two items.

And my question really is either for you, Madam President, or for uh the attorneys for the planning department um to really ask it does it make sense for us to reverse the order and hear the vacation of the right of way first.

And Madam President, if I might jump in before um Councilmember excuse me, Henjam's question is answered.

Uh I would um respectfully like to recuse myself from this matter.

Um my firm is actively engaged in a project with District 11.

And uh, although I believe I could be impartial and um and uh view this project without any um uh concern, I don't want there to be any perception of impropriety.

And so I would like to recuse myself and exit the hearing.

You are excused.

Um Kevin or would you like to address councilman hen Jim?

Oh, Ryan, would you like to address didn't see you standing in the foliar?

Okay, uh council president, uh Ryan T.

Fertiller, urban planning manager.

Um there was certainly some thought that went into the order of the three items.

Um I believe that the zone change, which is listed as your as item a um can proceed and should proceed with or without the right-of-way vacation.

There are opportunities for the district to modify the plan should they need to if the right-of-way were not vacated.

So I think it is reasonable and appropriate to have the zone change first, the right-of-way vacation second, and then the land use plan, which does illustrate later phases that utilize that vacated right-away.

So really that should come after the vacation request.

Okay, thank you.

That's how we will proceed.

So, first up, we have glad you didn't go far.

Um city staff presentation, and you have 10 minutes.

Uh I will do my best, council president.

Again, Ryan T.

Fertiller, urban planning manager for the city's planning department.

Um, I will I do have a handful of slides.

Um, I've essentially given the same presentation twice before, once at the downtown review board and once at the city's planning commission.

So I'll try to go through these fairly quickly.

I will also point out that there's a lengthy and detailed staff report in your packet.

I believe it's the second link uh under item A that goes into much more detail on all the items that I'll be discussing briefly uh this afternoon.

Um with that, I'll jump right in.

Feel free to interrupt uh if you do have any questions or concerns.

The site is located on the northeast edge of downtown.

It covers a little over eight acres, surrounded by Platte, Nevada, St.

Vrain, and Weber.

Obviously, the Boulder right away today bisects the site into a north half and a south half.

There are a mix of zone districts today, R16, R5, which are both residential zone districts.

I should point out schools are allowed as a permitted use in most of our residential zone districts.

There is a small piece of OR office residential zoning as well.

Again, the uh proposal is to redevelop the uh school campus, consolidate it into one larger piece, allowing for a multi-phase redevelopment effort, um, including the uh redevelopment of the west side of the campus for a track and field associated, obviously, with Palmer High School.

Um there is some discussion in the staff report, and I'll very briefly mention today that public school districts in the state of Colorado are given some authority through state statutes to proceed uh with reconstruction and providing infrastructure for public education through the state of Colorado.

Um the city's planning department does not review building permits for most public school projects.

However, because this effort includes the proposed vacation or right-of-year, um, the district has worked very closely with the planning staff for all three applications, and so including the zone change, the vacation, the land use plan.

There's a fourth application that's being reviewed administratively right now, the development plan that shows the more detailed designs for phase one A.

Um, and then it in the near future, uh, should council approve the project today, uh, they will be submitting a subdivision plat to create one lot for the entire eight-acre site.

Um, the applications were formally submitted last summer in June, but uh even before that, uh a good six to nine months before that, there was ongoing dialogue with the city.

And um, as I said, this has gone through multiple rounds of public hearings already.

We've done lots of public notice and public engagement.

Um this slide deck was actually finalized roughly two weeks ago, so the uh number of comments received item there that says 50 plus, it is up to around 80 emails today.

You should have received with the help of Mr.

Friedman, um, some additional emails uh that were delivered to council on Friday, some more that were delivered yesterday, and I think there should be two more hard copies that were received last night uh that should be at your at your desks.

Councilman Donaldson.

Yeah, thanks, Madam President.

And uh Ryan I had asked um Sam Friedman to just sort of tally up those in favor and those opposed as far as the emails were going.

Do you know?

Did he pass that information to you?

Uh I have not communicated with Sam about that, but uh I did my own analysis.

Okay.

Um now we can compare it to Sam's.

We can.

Uh of the roughly eight emails, I had about 60% in support of the project, including the right-of-way vacation, about 35% opposed, and 5% that had more just comments, questions, maybe like the concept, but wanted some tweaks.

Um again, that's unofficial.

Those are my estimates, but most of the emails, as I'm sure you've seen, were pretty clearly stating they were either in support or opposed to the project.

Okay, and perhaps uh we can have Mr.

Friedman give us his uh numbers later on, whenever it's convenient.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Um, in addition to just email communications and postcards and posters uh posted on site, uh, you can see this slide in the staff report goes into great detail about the various opportunities for stakeholder engagement, including a steering committee, multiple open houses, uh, lots of digital and hard copy communications, and I know you'll hear more about this from the applicant during their presentation.

I will also point out that at the two public hearings that we've had already today uh to date.

Um, there were six people that spoke at the downtown review board and 15 people that spoke at the planning commission in December.

Um again, lots of stakeholder participation, just very briefly.

The few of the things that were most notably talked about were honoring the history of the school.

Um, the consolidated campus concept and the vacation of Boulder was obviously a primary point of dialogue.

Um the project does include the removal of four older homes on the south side of St.

Vrain.

So that's the very north edge of the eight and a quarter acres.

Um, those homes are within the Weber Was Edge Historic District.

So obviously we've got some stakeholder engagement on that issue, establishment of the form-based zone, and then also a fair bit of dialogue about possible community partnerships as part of later phases of the project.

No surprise, the city has looked at this project very closely.

A number of the key review agencies include traffic engineering, obviously, stormwater, utilities, city engineering, uh, police and fire, et cetera.

Um, uh lots of internal dialogue regarding technical review to make sure all the standards and criteria are met for the project.

Obviously, traffic impacts uh with the proposed vacation were a primary item.

Um in your agenda, there are links to an initial traffic study that was completed in April of last year, uh, modeling the proposed impacts of the closure of Boulder.

Um a few months later, after temporary construction permits had been approved for a temporary closure of Boulder, and new traffic study was submitted in September that actually showed real-world data on how drivers and traffic in the area is adjusting for the temporary construction closure of Boulder.

So both of those documents are in your packet.

Um, I believe the city's traffic engineer and public works director are here to potentially answer any questions should you have them regarding this issue, but this was obviously an issue that was very closely reviewed and considered through the review process.

Council McDonaldson.

And yeah, thank you, Madam President.

Since this is an important issue uh in the decision, can you give us a review of that of those studies?

Or would you prefer to I'd actually defer to uh subject matter experts.

Um I don't know if now's the right time.

Absolutely.

Um another important element of our review, especially for the zone change and the land use plan is consistency with uh plan COS, the city's comprehensive plan.

I'm not gonna go into details on that part, but there is significant analysis within the staff report.

Ultimately, staff find that the proposed project is highly consistent and compatible with plan COS.

Um, just very briefly, I'll hit on each of the three applications.

Again, the first is the zone change.

The proposed zone is form-based zone T2A.

This is actually the first request since the form-based zone was established in 2009 to zone from a standard citywide district into the form-based zone.

That being said, it is a logical extension of the existing form-based zone.

You can see the image on the bottom right of this slide shows how the new form-based zone map would look should council approve the proposed uh rezone.

Uh the sector itself, the T2A sector is a transitional sector.

It has building heights and other development standards that are appropriate, given the time context on the edge of the form-based zone adjacent to uh a mix of uses, including some single-family homes to the north and northeast of the site.

Um, because it is a zone change to the form-based zone, it did have hearings at the downtown review board and planning commission.

Both of those entities recommended approval.

Um, these are the review criteria for zone change.

I'm obviously not going to go through those in detail, but in the staff report, I I do have a point-by-point analysis of each criteria, and staff ultimately found that those criteria are met.

The second application is the proposal to vacate uh Boulder Street between Nevada and Weber.

It is a 100-foot-wide right-of-way spanning 400 feet east to west.

Um, the vacation ordinance in your packet does reserve utility easements across the area.

Uh, those can be selectively or partially vacated administratively later on as the applicant and property owner works more closely with Colorado Springs utilities to determine exactly how much easement must be retained.

Um, once if the right-of-is vacated, the county assessor would assign ownership based on where the right-of-way came from when it was originally platted, um, roughly 150 years ago.

And in this case, it would go uh directly to uh the school district, school district 11.

Uh just a couple more minutes.

I'm I'm almost wrapped up.

Uh, I will point out that the proposed motions and analysis in your packet does include three proposed conditions of approval that give this the opportunity for city staff to continue working with the school district on an agreement that covers a few specific issues relative to the right-of-way vacation.

Um let me try to move on.

Um thank you.

These are the five review criteria for a right-of-way vacation, and staff does find that the three criteria are meet.

I'm sorry, the five criteria meet uh specifically if council uh supports the three proposed conditions of approval in your packet.

Um the last and final application is the land use plan.

That is a graphic illustration of the proposed build out of the site.

It is broken into three phases, one A and one B, and then a phase two.

Uh the plan shows obviously building locations, pedestrian circulation, uh, and as I mentioned earlier, the track and field, uh, which would come into play as part of phase one B and phase two.

Um as you have sure have seen, phase one is essentially under construction today.

Um the building permits for the building along the east side of the site, south of Boulder is ongoing uh again through uh approval of building permits by regional building on behalf of the state.

Um again, these are the review criteria for a land use plan, and staff does find that the criteria are met.

Um three slides here on optional motions.

I'm not gonna belabor these.

Um we've provided both motions to approve or motions to deny for all three applications.

With that, I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Um and I, as I stated earlier, we do have uh city staff from a number of different agencies present and available to answer any specific questions.

Councilman Hincham.

Uh thank you, Madam President.

Ryan, thank you.

Presentation.

Um, what are the practical consequences of rezoning now if the later phases don't proceed?

In other words, do we risk granting a zoning change that outlives the project if it's not funded?

That's a good question.

Uh and and possibly a complicated one trying to evaluate all the range of scenarios 50 or 100 years into the future.

I think uh the form-based zone uh is applicable to today to a roughly square mile of downtown Colorado Springs.

It allows a mix of uses at urban densities.

Uh the standards for the form-based zone are are written intentionally to create a highly walkable urban context.

If for some reason phase one A or even phase two are not funded, the zone would allow the property owner, in this case the school district, to develop according to those standards.

Um that being said, again, school districts don't have to fully comply with zoning.

They can get their building permits through the state.

So as long as it's continues to be district-owned, the actual designation of the zoning isn't critical because whether it's R16 or form-based zone, they uh do have certain abilities that a typical landowner would not.

So it's not critical to the project.

I mean, it's being developed now, you can see it.

So it isn't critical to the project as it stands right now.

I think that's accurate.

I will say school districts, just like public other public institutions do have the ability to dispose of property.

And if for some reason phase two or even phase one A weren't funded, I guess there could be a scenario where the district decided to spose of the property north of Boulder, and then the future owner would have to comply with the zoning, assuming it wasn't a different school district or state entity.

Um, they would have to comply with zoning, and and in this case, they'd follow the uh form-based standards that are proposed today.

Okay.

Um, what elements of the proposal will still come back through development plan review, and what leverage would the city retain at that stage on parking, circulation, building placement, and neighborhood mitigation?

The um school district has already submitted a form-based zone development plan.

That's been uh to date reviewed using the form-based code standards and procedures with the assumption that ultimately the zone would be changed and the form-based zone would be established.

Um that plan illustrates the detailed development uh proposal for phase one A.

And there are some uh what are called form-based warrants associated with that development plan, which requires the project to be reviewed at a public hearing by the downtown review board.

So staff planning staff does not have administrative authority to grant form-based zone warrants.

So, should council approve the zone change and approve the land use plan today, that development plan would go to the downtown review board for a public hearing in the months ahead.

And the downtown review board had authority to either approve the relief or apply conditions or other um elements uh within their realm to further the intent of the zone district and the downtown master plan.

I'm kind of stuck on assumption of the zone change.

Can you just restate for me what was the assumption of the zone change to the form-based zone?

I think and I I believe uh uh my staff report hits on this briefly, but the proposal uh and I'll and and the district can expand on this when they're uh as part of their presentation, but should the zone change and the vacation be approved?

Um they are obviously pursuing the uh development plan, which has already been submitted and gone through multiple rounds of review.

They will also be submitting a subdivision plat to establish one lot over the entire 8.2 acres.

We cannot plat a lot that has multiple zone districts.

So today there's three different zone districts, and city code says that a platted lot can only have one zoning designation.

So we really have to um consider a zone change and whether that is um there was a lot of dialogue early on in this project about what the appropriate zone district was.

Was it R16 or R5 or form-based or something else?

Uh a PDZ could could have been considered, a planned development zone.

Um ultimately the district together with staff felt that the form-based zone made the most sense for the context and the type of development that we want to see in the near future or in the long future, um, given its context on the edge of downtown.

Okay.

Um, how did how did staff weigh the transitional compatibility uh with nearby homes in the Weber Wasatch historic district?

Um so that's a tough question because obviously the land use plan is extremely vague.

It shows blobs on a map as far as building locations.

It doesn't give us a ton of detail as far as uh massing or bulk and scale, landscaping, etc.

Um that being said, the transition to a sector has a multiple building height of four stories, which is only somewhat uh taller than the R5 district, which is a 50-foot uh building height.

Um, it does also uh the form-based code also does have a transition, uh, I'm sorry, a guideline, a design guideline that talks about transitions on the edge of the form-based zone.

So, as development plans were to come in in the future along the north edge of the site, we would look for that proposal to um comply with those design guidelines and standards and create a uh a positive transition to the adjacent homes to the north or northeast.

Um that being said, it is an urban context.

Um, you know, we the form-based zone does go up North Tejone today, all the way up to Cash.

Um, and so we see a lot of um opportunity in existing um uh buildings and properties that have that same designation already all the way up to Colorado College.

Okay.

Um, do you think approving the this rezoning would in any way prejudice our our judgment on the the vacation of the right of way or the land use plan?

Uh I I don't I I don't believe so.

I'm not sure if I'm the best person to answer that question, but again, I'll restate one of my first comments before I even started my presentation is um it would still make sense to establish the form-based zone, even if council does ultimately decided not to vacate uh Boulder Street.

Okay, that's all I have for now.

Councilman Donaldson.

Yeah, is uh as long as Ryan's up there, just want to let you know that um Sam Friedman did who's our constituent outreach specialist, and he has compiled all the emails and and per his calculations it's 52 percent in favor, 48 percent of what we received was against the uh uh the vacation of the road, really is probably what most of that applied to.

Is that would you say that's accurate, Mr.

Friedman?

Yeah, that 48% was absolutely about the closure of the road.

Yeah, and the the discrepancy between me and Mr.

T.

Tiller's numbers, we had about 10 communications come in today that were overwhelmingly in opposition.

Okay, okay, thank you.

I'd have to go back and look.

Oh, I have 80 80 emails that have been received over the last six or months or so since since submittal.

We had three come in in the last 15 minutes.

Okay, thank you.

Councilman Williams.

I think Councilman Hunjam stole my thunder, but essentially it was order of operations.

If we do the rezone, but yeah, the right-of-way doesn't pass.

That'll just remain zoned in these new areas independent of each other, correct?

Correct.

Thank you.

You're off the hook for now.

Moving on to the applicant presentation, we'll now hear from the applicant for an overview of the project.

And Chris, you have 30 minutes.

You have more than 10.

You're 30.

Uh good afternoon.

Uh President Crow Iverson and members of city council.

Uh my name is Chris Lieber with NES, and uh pleased to be here today on behalf of uh School District 11.

And after 18 months of process, it's good to be here today.

So uh thank you for this opportunity to share uh a bit about this really trans uh transformational uh project.

Uh we have a robust uh team here today uh who uh certainly will be available to uh to answer your questions, dive into the details um uh as we move forward.

Our presentation today, we want to keep it uh fairly high level and and certainly be respectful uh of time.

Uh for our presentation though, we really have four parts.

Uh I want to begin uh by uh turning it over to Superintendent Gall to just give a few opening remarks.

Uh, then Jessica Wise uh with School District 11 will talk a little bit about some of the the goals and um as we really define what we call kind of return on investment uh for our community.

Uh and then uh Doug Abernathy will speak very briefly to the master plan uh that the district has completed, and that will talk about the land use uh application that I will follow up uh to address both the um uh zone change and the uh the right-of-way vacation.

So with that, I'm gonna turn it over to Superintendent Gall.

Thanks, Chris.

Good afternoon.

Thanks for having us, Madam President, City Council members.

It's interesting to sit on the other side of the dais and now stand at the podium.

There's a certain amount of um uh impressiveness that it comes from being able to present to a body like yours.

I think we all have a shared vision of a great Colorado Springs.

I want to start by acknowledging the future of Colorado Springs and our students that have arrived here today.

These Palmer Terrors have taken not just time out of their academic schedule, but they've invested a lot of their time into the design and into this um vision that can come forward, not just for their generation, because many of them will graduate before phase two is complete.

Some of them will graduate before uh phase A B, uh one B is complete as well.

Um, but their commitment and the staff that have supported them along this journey are giving them an insight into what does it take for a city to function for its future, for its current status, and for its past.

So I just want to address three pieces.

I'll call it the three C's.

First, you'll hear a lot about this idea of a coherent and or connected campus that allows our students to be able to be in a consolidated space.

Um I know there are a lot of rezoning that needs to happen.

I know there is a vacation that has been asked for Boulder Street.

We have the funding for phases one A and one B.

Do not be confused.

Much of what you will get today will be extra communication from our team on information on how we are prepared to execute on that vision going forward on rezoning and the vacation of Boulder that will have new academic space, renovated academic space, and a track and field all located within students' footsteps without having to put themselves in the harm's way.

Phase two is a larger conversation with our community about District 11's initiatives of going forward with a bond, which is not up for conversation today, but would be the relocation of the ERPS gym back up as you could see north of what is currently Boulder on that Weber Avenue right there.

You can see that in the phase two portion.

We see great connectivity into just having the academic space and the track and field be in that footstep opportunity for children.

Every other comprehensive high school in all of Colorado Springs has a track and field right next to its academic space.

The track and field that currently exists at Herbsfield is not to regulation.

Many of you, if you are Palmer alumni, might actually hold a record for being able to make a 90 degree turn faster on that track than it is that is the normal chassis standard for kids to be able to run around.

Our children do get the opportunity to do their practice events on our partial field down at ERPS and or at Gary Berry, but we are restricting the opportunity for urban education to happen in its totality when we tell our children that they have to take a bus to get to a place to go do practice when other kids in Colorado Springs can just walk across the street.

Um, the final thing I want to add to this is community.

We have a vision for Palmer High School.

The Colorado Springs High School is the original school under General Palmer's vision some 150 plus years ago.

You'll see in our presentation how that connects to the original vision that one of the pillars of a strong city is education.

District 11 believes that the future of District 11 and the future of Colorado Springs, particularly as a city, is centered around that pillar of education.

It would be easier for us to come forward and say to you that we want to give all this space back and to consolidate our children into other more suburban opportunities that exist.

The average suburban high school takes up about 30 acres.

We are presenting to you here a consolidated plan at 8.4 acres of just two city blocks, of which we currently own roughly 95% of and have purchased the existing outsized 5% and are looking for rezoning and the vacation to be able to bring a consolidated campus.

If you get a chance to engage with our students, Palmer students are not like other students and other institutions in El Paso County.

These are children who choose to go to school downtown.

They want to be a part of a thriving downtown.

Many of our students are participate in our IB, our international baccalaureate program, which gives them the most well-rounded opportunity where they seek to have internships, partnerships, and apprenticeships with actually your offices and the businesses that exist downtown.

We are not trying to replicate Discovery Canyon campus, our nearest pure competitor as an IB school in District 20 downtown.

That would be a massive rezoning of which not enough time or money exists for us to procure those 25 to 30 acres.

We are asking for an opportunity to reinvent urban education right here in our heart of our city.

We are the original school district for Colorado Springs.

Palmer is the original high school as it was named in the Colorado Springs High School.

We believe these students deserve a safe future, an effective future that's connected to this community.

And with that, I'd love to present Dr.

Jessica Wise to give you the rest of the presentation.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

I want to just pause for a moment on what the superintendent was just talking about and the pictures in front of you on the screen, the history of the civic institution that is Palmer High School, because that's where we started, and that's what shaped a lot of the vision of this project.

General Palmer, when he founded the city, famously said, My theory for this place is that it should be the made the most attractive place for homes in the West, a place for schools, colleges, science, newspapers, and everything the above imply.

Palmer was placed at the heart of the city as part of that vision.

And when the original Colorado Springs High School was eventually deemed unsafe and inadequate in the 1930s, the city once again faced a choice reinvest or walk away.

After extensive public discussion, and I know that because I read every Gazette article from 1937 to 1940, the community chose reinvestment.

That the WPA Palmer High School that stands today was the result.

That decision reflected the city's values then, and today we stand at a similar moment.

We're being asked whether we will reinvest in public education at the heart of our city.

Over the last 18 months, we've asked a different set of questions, rooted not in preference, but in responsibility.

What does it take to educate students safely and successfully in a modern downtown campus?

And what responsibility do we carry, not only to preserve a historic building, but to ensure that students can move through their campus safely and thrive academically.

Answering those questions required putting multiple campus concepts on the table and working through them through this comprehensive community process, which you'll hear us, our team talk more about today.

We're happy to answer questions on.

As part of this process, the design team didn't begin with a single predetermined solution.

Instead, multiple concepts were explored for how Palmer could be organized.

What you see here are three of those concepts studied during the planning process, different ways to organize in a downtown setting.

These options were shared with students, family, staff, alumni, neighbors, community partners, downtown business owners, all of whom helped weigh both the strengths and the trade-offs of each approach.

Through that dialogue, the can the connected campus emerged as the approach that best aligned with the priorities we heard again and again from the community.

So as I said, across those conversations, we had six priorities come to the top consistently from our community members.

These priorities became the framework for evaluating the concepts and ultimately shape the direction that we've taken in this plan.

Two of those priorities listed above were especially influential in determining the final approach.

The first is the educational philosophy that guides Palmer High School.

The second is the safety of our students who learn there every day.

So let me start with the international baccalaure philosophy.

If you don't know anything about it, at Palmer, students have a phrase that they embrace called I belong.

It reflects their desire for a genuine sense of community and shared purpose.

Research consistently shows that students with a strong sense of belonging are far more likely to engage in learning and achieve academically.

The international baccalaureate model itself is built on connections, connection between disciplines, cultures, ideas, and real world experiences.

A cohesive campus strengthens that connection.

A fragmented campus undermines it.

Modern learning requires modern coherent space, but none of that matters if our students are not safe.

And so that brings me to safety.

Safetes are non-negotiable.

In our district, we've experienced the worst consequences of unsafe unsafe crossings.

A couple years ago, a student was killed in a crosswalk at Doherty High School.

That loss permanently reshaped how we think about prevention and responsibility.

At Palmer, thousands of daily crossings occur between academic buildings, athletic facilities, and recreation spaces across active downtown streets and intersections.

Palmer High School goes on lockdown four times more often than any of our other comprehensive high schools.

The near misses are too frequent and the risks are too real.

Connecting a campus is not a convenience and it's not a design preference.

It is the only responsible way to create a safe and cohesive learning environment for students at the heart of our city.

And importantly, importantly, improving safety does not mean cutting students off from downtown.

It just means engaging it differently.

This plan does not cut Palmer off from downtown.

It activates it.

Right now, our students are scattered, navigating downtown individually and often invisibly.

This plan creates a defined place for students within the life of a city.

It opens opportunities, as the superintendent mentioned for internships and partnerships with businesses and city organizations and arts organizations and much more.

Rather than disappearing into the background, students become visible contributors to Colorado Springs.

Over the last 18 months, this project has involved continuous engagement with students, family, staff, alumni, neighbors, downtown partners, and city colleagues.

Public meetings, workshops, surveys, open houses, and board discussions have all shaped the direction of this plan.

And I want to emphasize something incredibly important to understanding that engagement.

Palmer High School is a public high school.

They are part of it.

Most Palmer students live in the surrounding community and attend, have attended the feeder schools in the area.

Their families are residents and neighbors of this area.

When we engage students, family staff in our feeder school communities, we're engaging the people who live here now and move through this neighborhood every single day.

That engagement shaped the priorities you saw earlier, priorities centered on safety, belonging, academic excellence, history, and a connected downtown.

When the WPA era Palmer was dedicated in 1940, a local deacon offered the following blessing I would love to quote for you.

He said, we must dedicate this building not only to the securing of knowledge, but to the safeguarding of wisdom.

We must dedicate it to a man's highest goals, visions, and purposes, as well as the training and tasks.

That charge still stands.

This plan protects students, strengthens downtown, and honors the values on which Colorado Springs was built.

And this is a moment to choose safety, belonging, and an opportunity for the future generation.

Councilman Rainey.

Thank you, Madam President.

If either it could be you or it could be the superintendent, uh one, thank you for the presentation.

But I I've heard this uh phrase used several times now, and I would like for you to expand on it.

Uh, reinvent urban education and tying it to downtown.

Um, granted, I got a lot of other questions about zoning and traffic and so forth.

I'll wait for that later.

But can you give some insight to what that means?

Because I don't think no one really has dug into what does that truly mean for this particular project.

I have lots of feelings on it, but this is the man who's worked in multiple urban school districts, so I'm gonna allow him to answer.

Uh thank you.

Let me start by saying it's the school that makes the neighborhood, it's not the neighborhood that makes the school.

Uh people will move wherever they need to to get access to high quality education.

Palmer for a long time has represented that high quality access.

Uh during a time where uh uh I would say Colorado Springs has started to spread into some urban sprawl, but it has always kind of had what I would call more of a uh a hometown downtown.

The city uh has gotten larger.

El Paso County is now the largest um county in the state of Colorado by population, of which is not the totality of this conversation.

We are merely District 11.

But our downtown has become more of a thriving business area, and it runs the risk of excluding normal access to students that family than families that live downtown.

We are merely about 2.8 miles to Cheyenne Mountain High School, which is very easy for any family to drive to, and it is a completely suburban experience.

And urban education means an open connected campus, not just for students to navigate safely, but for them to have internships, partnerships, and apprenticeships in the businesses that exist downtown for kids to be learning, not just in the classroom, but as we say, bringing excellence through experience.

One of the other initiatives that District 11 has leaned very heavily into is how it is that our children can be exploring pathways while they're actually in high school.

So we don't want to have our children restricted to the campus.

The idea is that it becomes, and in line with the original vision of how the diagonal cut through the city into Acacia Park, that Palmer, as it comes through the Statue of General Palmer, becomes a feeder for our children to be either spending their mornings or their afternoons outside of the building and a part of the local community of which this campus serves.

It's very easy to replicate suburban excellence.

It's very difficult to find the balance in an urban core where children can feel that they're a part of the very community at which they want to serve.

These children have more ideas of the challenges that you address every day as a city council than we can write down on paper.

And they want to be integrated, they want to be a part of those solutions.

They already do that at a limited basis.

We think the connectivity of this campus and really recreating a reimagined space where we call it the front nine, which is that entrance on the General Palmer side, which is not the primary interest for students now.

Most students seem to enter on the Weber side.

We want to reinvent that the school is facing the core of the thing that makes Colorado Springs great.

We still have a small enough downtown that you can have a high school in the middle of it.

I think that the other question is, or do we want to have a downtown that is absent from having a core high school?

That I think is really the question on the table.

That's not a threat, it's not that we're pulling out.

We just believe that the next hundred years is dependent upon our investment, our hundred plus million dollars that we brought in tax-free.

We asked nobody for any additional money.

We found that money internal to be able to reinvest.

And again, I came to Colorado Springs on July 5th, 1985.

I landed here from New Jersey.

I had not been more than five miles west of the Delaware River, and I was mad at my parents when I got here.

Because I said, why is it that you didn't tell me how incredible other parts of our country could be?

Like all good cadets, it took me 30 plus years, but I'm home again.

The future of downtown is dependent upon our ability to see education as a core pillar.

Otherwise, your votes will all be about growth further east, uh, annexation of other spaces, stretching CS utilities further and further miles out.

This is about a reinvestment and a reinvention and a reimagination of downtown, of which I will end where I started.

It is the school that makes the neighborhood.

It is not the neighborhood that makes the school.

Palmer has stood the test of time.

The facilities itself need great reinvestment.

That's happening regardless of your votes today, bringing that to a larger vision and fruition of how it connects to the very other things that you are responsible for, is where we think that great community partnership can come to bear.

Councilman Donaldson.

Oh, were you finished, Councilman Rini?

Councilman Donaldson.

Yeah, thank you, Madam President.

And um Dr.

Gall, I believe the previous speaker pointed out that at Doherty a student was uh was hit and killed uh on on the road.

Um the discussion is partly around safety and uh students having to cross roads.

But is that campus a unified campus, which you're you're trying to get to?

Is that campus already a unified campus?

Uh the Doherty campus, is that your question?

The Doherty campus is already a standalone unified campus.

The student was crossing uh Barnes in a designated safety zone.

We appreciate the investment of the mayor and a city council in re-establishing the importance of safety zones.

Um I'll let that information stand as it is.

Okay.

And my my thought there is that part of this, the uh encouragement for council to go ahead and vacate this road is that uh that will make um it's safer for these students.

But you know, that tragedy that uh student who is killed was on a campus just like this, and it and it did happen anyway.

And so it it's something that uh strikes me that there's no guarantees.

You can you can get rid of Boulder Street, but uh you know the risk is still there on all the other roads.

So yeah, we'll we'll uh on I I hate to use statistics, particularly as it rests in the life of uh that was an international exchange student, and if you can imagine having to meet those parents as they flew overseas to reclaim uh you know their lost child, um just reducing the number of crossings is of great advantage uh to us.

I can never guarantee on which crossing will be the challenge.

I was crossing the street yesterday with our principal uh Krista Burke behind me.

She happens to be a math whiz.

Uh I'll let her talk about her own resume another day.

And as we were getting ready to cross one of the streets that our students cross all the time, she's doing the advanced calculus for me that says when the light turns yellow, you have nine minutes, you have nine seconds to make it all the way across.

But if there's a car in the left turn lane, you only have five seconds before that left turn arrow goes on.

That's not the math I want my Palmer students to have to deal with.

And any way that I can limit that number of crossings, I think is of great advantage.

I would love for the city to reconsider how it is, and we won't bring this today, but school zones should be uh a number one priority.

Uh safety zones and what they mean on what businesses are allowed to be near schools.

Any city that invests in its children, all of its citizens win, whether you have children in that school or not.

Thank you.

Councilman Henjam.

Um, just wondering if the applicant is finished with presentation.

If not, we are not.

And I'll save my questions.

Thanks.

Uh President Crow Iverson, I'm gonna move uh forward in our presentation and um here we go.

Uh I'm gonna skip some of these slides.

They are all in your packet.

Um, but to kind of move move forward, I want to get right to the heart of the applications and specifically focus on the zone change uh and uh and the right-of-way.

Um and certainly again, we're all available for uh for questions to go into into detail.

Uh first of all, I want to make sure that uh everyone is aware uh of the the extent to which not only did we engage the community but also uh looked at uh a lot of the existing plans, uh whether uh COS uh Connect COS, Plan COS, New Mark Study, uh Envision Shooks Run, and on all of those uh helped inform uh the process.

Now let me jump in uh to the uh the rezone.

Um today uh Palmer uh spans uh multiple residential and uh commercial zone districts, and while schools are permitted within these zone districts, it's important to note, and this is really at the heart of why we're asking for this zone change that each zone district has unique and conflicting standards for setbacks, building heights, densities, percentage of lot coverage, and and so forth.

Um the FBZ transitional zoning provides standards which align with both, to be honest, better with the existing uh building as well as the proposed plans for Palmer, while providing that transitional edge uh to uh of downtown for both the benefit and the protection, I would argue, uh, of the neighborhood.

The FBZ emphasizes the public realm and and pedestrian linkages much more strongly than residential or commercial districts do.

It provides flexibility and allows for innovative design uh of Palmer.

You know, Palmer has been uh on this site for more than a hundred years, and with uh a hundred million dollar investment, the site will continue uh to be used as a school.

So our request uh is not so much focused on allowable use.

We have that uh today.

It's really driven by a desire uh for consistent zoning standards, which are appropriate for the downtown context, ensuring quality pedestrian um access, streetscape standards, and providing what I would argue is a more appropriate transition into the neighborhood.

Also, it is worth noting when you look at the zoning here, uh you do see residential zoning surrounding it.

But if you go look at those uses, many of those uses are First Methodist Church.

Uh their churches, their other uses that also are within that residential zone.

But if you look at the building type, if you look at the building mass, um it is not what you would consider uh the traditional uh residential neighborhood, uh, particularly uh on the west side.

Uh we meet all of the zoning criteria.

I think Ryan did a nice job of of addressing that.

So now let's turn our our focus to uh to right-of-way and why the need for this consolidated campus.

And really, again, what's that return on investment?

Uh the graphics that you see uh above you here, uh the red square represents uh the 8.27 acre uh Palmer uh high school footprint, what uh what a consolidated campus might mean.

And we've simply overlaid that over the uh the footprints of all of these other schools.

Uh you know, the industry standard for a high school is between 20 and 30 uh acres.

We're accomplishing all of this within that 8.27.

But you can begin to see why a consolidated campus and why that larger footprint matters.

Certainly there is precedent uh in our community for interrupting the grid system, um particularly within the core.

You know, our city has found a way to say yes uh for three basic reasons, and I would argue they are parks, uh, they are hospitals or health care, and they are education.

Uh these land uses greatly benefit from connected campuses, they necessitate larger footprints, and they prioritize pedestrian movements and access for both functionality and safety.

Our early city builders saw the value and necessity of these connected campuses.

When you think about Penrose Hospital, you think about Colorado College, Memorial Hospital, the Colorado School for the Deaf and Blind.

Uh, all of these land uses uh prioritize connected campuses uh over uh over the grid system, and many of these have been expanded uh over time.

To understand uh really the impacts and benefits of the vacation of Boulder Street, as Ryan indicated, two traffic studies uh were completed.

Uh it's not only uh did that that both of those traffic studies really support uh this uh proposal, but we have had nine months now to really evaluate and understand uh what the potential impacts uh and benefits of a boulder closure mean uh because Boulder has been closed for these past uh uh many uh many months.

Um in addition, it's uh very important to note uh that uh uh city uh city staff, our project team also spent extensive time uh early on in this project uh evaluating uh potential impacts to emergency services.

That was our very first uh uh item of business.

Uh consulting with police, fire, AMR, UC Health, and Memorial Hospital.

And the results uh of all of that, not just our in-depth look, but city staff's in deck look in-depth look uh was that there was no significant increase uh in response time.

Uh when we did the second traffic study, we were had a chance to really understand how traffic uh is dispersed across this grid system without that one block of boulder.

And what we learned is that drivers are making a variety of different uh uh choices, often early uh in their uh in their uh in their uh transportation, whether that be at Wasatch, Weber, or even earlier at Union Hancock or Institute.

So, in other words, the grid system uh is working, and this segment of Boulder is not uh needed uh or necessary.

Uh there's a I think a misnomer that uh that a tremendous amount of additional pro traffic has been transferred on the platform.

You'll see this graphic here, uh, what you see in orange, which represents uh between uh approximately a 13% uh increase is really uh what we're seeing, but all of those traffic movements continue uh to function.

A connected campus will result in significant pedestrian uh safety for students.

The graphic that you see before you, you can see all of the intersections that uh throughout the school day uh students are having to find their way and maneuver uh maneuver uh through.

Um this consolidated consolidation of classes onto the primary campus uh will take place uh immediately with phase one uh removing the vast majority of trips down the hill, so to speak, uh down to ERPS Gym and those fields during regular uh school hours.

Uh student movements between the various disjointed blocks uh will be consolidated uh to uh the vast majority of them will simply be able to utilize the uh the three green arrows, if you will, being able to flow from north to south uh instead of navigating uh those uh those pedestrian uh uh crossings.

Uh there's been a lot of conversation about uh pedestrian access.

Uh one of the commitments of this project is to improve the uh pedestrian experience around the perimeter uh of the of the campus uh in much the way that uh uh our downtown uh uh prioritizes pedestrian access.

Uh furthermore, um it's important to note that the district has been uh in extensive conversations with the city about looking for opportunities for public and pedestrian bicycle access through the center of the campus.

Uh this access would follow the south edge of the proposed track and multi-use field.

And while school safety is a priority for a district, there's a recognition that these extensive opportunities could certainly work before and after school on weekends, during spring breaks, spring break, holidays, and and uh throughout the summer months.

This encourages that access and connection uh between the neighborhood uh and uh and the school and gives that direct access to signal-controlled intersections.

So the district, to be clear, is committed and enthusiastic about maintaining pedestrian access, but must maintain the ability to secure the campus during school hours or during school school activities to ensure uh student uh safety.

So this is about uh finding that that balance.

So again, uh I won't spend time on this.

We believe we certainly meet the uh criteria for a right-of-way uh vacation, and have had the last uh nine months to really test uh this out.

So when we, and this goes to that uh topic of return on investment, when we weigh all the benefits of a connected campus and the proposed land use plan uh and the applications before you, we believe it's clear the many benefits outweigh the concerns, uh not just for Palmer High School students, but for our community.

Vacation of the Boulder Ride of Way has significant return on investment in terms of student safety, student success, investment in our youth, their future, our community, and ultimately an investment uh in our in our uh uh economy.

There are three uh conditions of approval uh that were that uh Ryan touched upon.

Uh these three uh represent uh and I want to say that the district is supportive of these.

Uh the first is allowing egress over the property uh when the space is unused for construction or permanent uh school activities.

Uh number two, the district is uh committed to collaborating with the city to provide public egress during construction of the PPRTA plated Platte Avenue improvements, and that's between Wasatch and Circle.

And number three, the district is uh committed to return ownership to the city of Colorado Springs.

Uh this is of that vacated right-of-way, should the district choose to uh dispose of the property at some point in the future.

So uh in closing, thank you for your time and consideration of this project, which prioritizes educational excellence, a connected campus, student safety, and a dynamic community hub in our downtown.

Um and our project team uh is available to answer questions along with uh staff uh from from Palmer High School.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chris.

Um councilman Rainey.

Thank you, Madam President.

Uh in your presentation earlier and in via comment, you mentioned about boulder being closed throughout this construction process over the last couple months.

Um if you have any data points to share, uh I will love to you know hear it myself.

Uh any complaints, any concerns, any safety issues, what has that looked like since it's been under construction during this time frame.

I can share two uh things, uh, Councilman Rainey.

One, um, the second traffic study was uh was completed uh while that closure uh was was in place, and um uh what it actually indicated, uh and uh Lyle DeVries with FHU is is here too if we really want to dig into the numbers.

Uh but essentially the projections that FHU came up with in their initial traffic study, um, the projections were actually the the traffic performance was actually better than what they had initially uh projected.

Uh but essentially the projections that FHU came up with in their initial traffic study, um the projections were actually the the traffic performance was actually better than what they had initially uh projected, and that's looking at turning movements, it's looking at traffic volumes, it's looking at stacking um those types of things.

The other would be what I would call lived experience to our knowledge.

Uh and it's my understanding, and I would uh encourage perhaps a question of uh your traffic city traffic engineer as well.

Um we did not see an increase in in uh traffic accidents.

We did not see an increase um in uh in uh in in also both traffic or pedestrian, uh nor did we see uh extensive uh traffic uh delays or issues with with turning movements.

But that's that's our lived experience.

I would encourage you to um uh inquire also with with traffic.

So there's two studies, one April of 2025, another one in September of 2025, correct?

I'm not sure I have those dates right, but I can tell you that the first was done um early on in the process before any temporary construction closure.

The second one was done after the closure um occurred because we wanted we wanted to test this and and uh and the city encouraged quite frankly.

Uh let's let's let's test this in um uh when the closure is in place.

Between the two, was there any significant findings between both of the studies?

If I may, I may ask um uh Lyle DeVries with FHU to come up and answer that in more detail if you if that's your pleasure.

Uh Lyle DeVries, Fellsburg Holt and Ulivig.

Um specific question, maybe is there a Yeah.

So the first study, the initial study uh that happened early on, and then the second study that happened later in a year.

Is there any significant findings between the two, specifically between like Tahome Platt and that Boulder area?

Was there any significant findings between those two studies?

Uh the first study um predicted what the shift in traffic could be with the boulder closure, and the analysis showed no significant concerns related to traffic operations.

Traffic operations were acceptable before or after the closure.

One exception is the intersection of St.

Brain with Nevada on signalized intersection now.

There was a degrading in the level of service there that we predicted in the first study.

Um in the second study, as Chris mentioned, the findings indicated that our predictions had been uh we we overpredicted the shifts that would occur.

So the second study revealed no additional issues relative to the first one.

Okay.

I'm good.

Thank you, Madam President.

Councilman Lineweber.

Um great, yeah.

So um, you know, for me, um, safety of our kids is kind of like paramount.

And uh so I I like this whole idea, but the the piece that I haven't quite understood because when I look at these lovely few future uh adults of our communities, um they all you can agree with me, they all would like to drive a car to school, right?

And so there's an introduction of a new thing at high school is that we have all these kids driving cars.

And I I haven't seen like um a layout of like what what is that parking gonna look like?

Like where how are we going to be protecting these kids in a special way?

Because I mean I hate to say it, they're not very experienced at parking cars.

Give me give me give me some um understanding about um what what is that gonna look like and assure me that there will be some kind of safety concern around this element that is introduced at high school, right?

If we we have a couple of slides at the very end, if I may.

I'm not sure.

I may need some help.

Okay.

Are you able to indicate which slide number?

Um, this was within the PowerPoint slide.

Maybe this was is this the PDF, maybe?

If not, I will I will talk through them.

Okay.

So let me begin by saying this has been a learning experience for me and understanding the parking demands uh at Palmer High School because the parking demand um realities of today are very different than what what I experienced uh certainly uh in in high school.

Let me give you a couple of a couple of uh things that are important to know.

Number one, um there are fewer uh students at Palmer that are driving to school than we certainly see at the uh uh suburban um uh schools.

And I want to qualify my question real quick too.

Okay um the vacating of Boulder Street, we're gonna be losing parking.

So there's a element of that also.

And so that's that's kind of that's kind of where my it's if both the safety and the loss of parking, how are we gonna recoup that?

Okay.

So today I'll give you a few a few numbers.

Um so the current parking demand at Palmer is approximately 150 spaces today, representing 80 staff members, and currently there are 62 students that obtain passes.

There's a process where they're asked, we think maybe there are more students park driving that may not be getting their passes, right?

And just in just in all fairness, um and so and so we've said a reasonable target is 250 spaces um for the school.

So you can see we've we've tacked another hundred hundred spaces on.

Um today, between all of the both the uh um off-street lots uh that uh that Palmer has.

Also, if you look at where does some of the on-street parking occur, which which does occur, there's 443 spaces, far more than what's what's needed.

Uh when we uh would would implement phase 1A, uh we'd be at 435 spaces.

When we go to phase one B, um that would take us uh down to 416 spaces.

So as we're moving into the future, um we have that addressed in the and the vast majority of that uh can certainly be accomplished on the existing um uh off-street uh dedicated parking.

When we look into the future, we were also asked uh by the city to look at um uh available just generally speaking, availability of on-street parking, and there's a tremendous amount in this area.

Many of the churches, for instance, uh have parking areas um that are heavily used on a Sunday on Sunday morning.

Uh the district has already kind of waded into that.

Um they recently uh um uh put an agreement in place with uh First Methodist Church uh to be able to utilize uh some of that space uh during the week.

Uh there are opportunities at the Y at the YMCA and so on and so forth.

So as you look well into the future, I think this part of downtown is is well positioned uh for uh for parking and parking uh absorption.

So I'm looking at these slides as they fly by me.

Oh, thank you.

Oh thank you for pulling them up.

If I might, Madam President, can I just offer something to all of council?

So the the deck that was presented and is the attachment or the link attached in the agenda is not the deck that's we're being shown, and the council administrators sent this deck to all of us to our emails.

So if you want to be able to go to those slides, you can do that.

I think there are additional slides at the end, is the difference.

Correct.

After that question slide, there were about 15 supplemental slides that are now available in your email.

So on this slide, I'm seeing that there uh in the pro in the space that's gonna be um north of Boulder, um, there's 144 spaces that you're gonna lose.

Is that what I'm getting from that 144?

Yes, that is that is correct.

And so you can see this this slide is intended to show, and again, we were asked to look at this bigger, broader inventory.

Um, and within so within a block or uh maybe a block and a half, uh we have roughly 2,015 parking spaces.

Um those are not be clear, those are not all D11.

That was to look at just comprehensively uh at uh um surface lots.

Uh and so you can see on the right hand side uh the the items that you see in that salmon color, pink color, those are the lots that the school uh currently uh currently has.

So I guess just in proximity of the school, you really just have the two lots that are just to the east that are like close.

Otherwise, there's gonna be a little bit more than a lot of things.

Yes, and you can see or or along the streets and stuff.

Yeah.

And for many, many years, uh the diagonal, if you see Cheyenne Avenue, that diagonal, um, that has been a place where um many students have certainly parked uh for literally for decades.

And that while it is it it functions much like a parking lot.

Um it's one of those historic kind of diagonal um corridors, diagonal streets.

Great.

So I wonder if there's a case to be made um with the closure of Boulder Street if walking from some of these parking areas and stuff would increase in safety versus um you know having an artery that goes right through the middle of campus per se.

We certainly recognize that yes um students coming and going um before and after school, that's gonna necessitate crossing crossing a street.

It's going to uh largely do that.

Um however, uh what we're really trying to do is is reduce the number of street crossings during the school day.

Yeah.

Um because uh you know the students also enjoy lunch uh and getting out and and heading into downtown for that.

That's important.

Uh and that opportunity would still certainly be there.

This is not an intent to take that away.

Well, that's a unique thing about Palmer is that is the connection to downtown, and certainly parking downtown is a part of that, I would see.

And when you did the overlay of Palmer on those other um high schools, I would imagine every single one of those other high school has its own parking.

And so that's that's just kind of I I mean it's the I I guess it's not like you're not really taking away, I mean, you are taking away 144 places, but um still the the ad of not having to walk down to the the herbs uh field and stuff like that is a big big um ad.

So um but anyway.

And if and and if I I may, um, one other is that uh the to be clear the 144 spaces does not go away with phase 1A with phase one B, it gets reconfigured, and that parking lot kind of sits in a north uh north-south configuration.

Uh we lose a few spaces, but we we pretty much maintain that.

It's actually not until phase two that all of that parking on the north end would be um would necessitate uh being relocated.

Okay.

Would um the school be amenable like if there was a design feature that could help with um around herbs field and whatever happens to that land when you I mean I don't I don't know if you'll actually vacate it.

I don't think you've really not talked about, I mean, there is no real plan of what happens for phase three, right?

Um there is in phase, yes.

As part of the master plan, uh which again, I'm sorry, I I I just went right past that order of saving time.

Um that space uh is specifically uh intended for a baseball field and a softball field.

We can fit those uh onto that uh onto that site.

Okay and so that's what's reflected in the master plan today.

Well, would it be amenable to working with the city to kind of improve traffic patterns and stuff like that at those crossings?

That's kind of what I would hope.

Um because you want the safety, right?

Absolutely.

So um I think we would we would welcome that.

Okay, great.

Thanks.

Councilman Henjam.

Uh thank you, Madam President.

Um, I want to go back and just say I I very much appreciate uh Superintendent Gall's uh impassioned statements around reimagining downtown and engaging students with center and the core and looking at Pike's Peak and the vision is is all really wonderful.

And I still have a lot of questions about this that that really need to be answered.

So I I am really trying to understand why the form base zone T2A um meets needs specifically to this project that cannot be achieved otherwise.

I just really need to understand very specifically why the form based zone is critical to this project.

Yeah.

Let me answer that by saying by walking through the what if we didn't change it.

What if we didn't change it?

From a use allowable use perspective, we could continue to function as a the district continue to function as a school.

They could continue to do that.

However, every time we would advance a project, every time we'd be bringing in a new development plan, it would be full of requests for variances, variances for height, variances for building setback, variances for even how the streetscape um is treated.

Because the school in many ways is a much better fit with the downtown urban fabric.

And so when we met with the city and we talked about, well, what are the logical um zone districts?

We asked the question, not just from a use perspective, if you will, that's the first box that you check, but beyond that, we spend a lot of time thinking about what are the standards.

What are the what are the design parameters that best align with kind of that the long list of different uh possible uh zone districts?

And it clearly the form-based zone, particularly uh the transition zone, uh, because it does have the building uh height limitations, because it does is intended for that transition, um, best meets uh all of all of those those goals and criteria.

So it was not driven so much by use, which I know there's a lot of conversation about.

It was largely driven by really understanding those the standards and asking, well, what's what's the best and most appropriate fit?

Okay, I think I understand.

Um, and you're in phase 1A now, correct?

Correct.

So you don't need form-based zone right now for what you're doing.

I mean you're doing it.

See it every every day when I go by.

So having it right now doesn't change what happens with phase one a.

It would impact the next phases should should this council decide to vacate the row and all the things that you're hoping will happen, correct?

Correct.

So that zoning change could happen in the future.

Correct?

Yes.

Okay, thank you.

Um so uh I guess what exactly happens if phase one or two are delayed for years, because my understanding is that you still the district still has a bond to pass in order to get that final um uh piece done.

And so I if you could walk us through operationally the reality for students in PE, athletics, locker rooms, pool, et cetera, in the scenario that um uh that this is that this zoning is delayed.

Okay.

I may ask because someone from the district to talk specifically about the programming.

Um I can allow Chris to continue talking about the zoning, but I want to answer that question and just clarify the superintendent mentioned this at the top.

We do have the funding secured for phase one A and one B.

So we are ready to build the track and field, and the funding is ready for that.

Should this plan be approved today, um, we would start to sequence that.

We do have to go to phase two, would require a bond to fund.

Um we are ready to talk to the community about that as well.

Um, but what is unequivocally clear to us is that student safety is a priority.

So should phase two not be built, and ERPS does not move, the superintendent and deputy superintendent who's also here are ready to change the plans of the building to make sure that all health and PE classes happen on this connected campus so that students no longer have to walk down to Wasatch and Platte every day during the school day for health and PE.

Because right now, 75% of our students make multiple trips a day from um Platte and uh Nevada down to Platte and Wasatch to go to gym or health class or something like that.

And so even if phase two were unfunded, we would we would change the design to limit that travel.

Okay, and that still would require the vacation of the right-of-way.

Correct.

Okay, so thank you for that clarification.

I appreciate that.

Um, so how many residential structures are proposed for removal and why are those removals necessary at each phase?

If you could talk about that piece.

Okay.

Um there are on the north uh Chris Lieber for the record.

On the north end of the site, there are four different buildings.

Um, and uh three of those are uh 100% residential, and then there's another that has uh some office kind of uh use or space in it.

Um those are the four um buildings or or um uh buildings that homes on the north end that would be uh um need to be uh relocated or removed as part of this uh process or effort to certainly accomplish um phase one B or uh certainly the entire build-out.

And and does the district yet have a plan for what to do with those homes?

Yes.

At this point, and I need to give a little bit of background uh in this, that the the to be very clear, um, and I think there'll be more conversation about this, those homes are within the Weber Wasatch uh historic district.

However, they are not within historic uh overlay, um, and that the district in much the same as any property owner has the ability to to remove, to demolish, to relocate um uh those homes.

There's no prohibition of that in in city code.

I want to be clear.

So really the decision about the future of those really is the the Board of Education in this.

I I just want to be be honest about that.

That said, uh the district has spent months looking at and being open to the opportunity, um, should uh and in fact being proactive about meeting with folks in our community potential partners that might have an interest in relocating um those those buildings and an adaptive reuse.

Um we started conversation uh with the city to to talk a little bit about could that be could they be used for uh re relocated for affordable housing.

Um we got to a essentially uh a dead end there.

Then we looked at nonprofit uh organizations, and we ended up in another um uh dead end.

We then turned to uh we then turned to uh the private sector and said, well, is there a way that they could uh step up and and uh be able to relocate?

And as they looked at the cost of doing so, particularly having to relocate or drop power lines or move uh stop lights, and just imagine what it takes to move a building uh down the street.

It becomes very uh cost prohibitive.

And also there's just not a lot of opportunity for land in close proximity, because that was the hope and the goal.

Could could we move them, you know, within a block or two and keep them in the district?

Um all of those, we've reached the point um where we have not gotten to a yes on that, but it's not been for lack of effort or or for trying.

Um and that's just that's where we are.

So at this point, the plan would be for those houses to be uh to be demolished.

Okay.

Uh thank you.

I think that answers that question.

Um and before I keep going on with my questions, um, I just need to ask Madam President or or whoever.

Uh have we heard all of the presentations on the three items entirely?

Because I have questions now.

I mean, I think I've heard about right away.

We're over to questions at this point.

We have completed our presentation.

Okay, so I could thank you.

So I can keep going with my questions.

Okay, thank you.

Thanks.

I do have a lot of questions.

I did a lot of homework over the weekend.

I really really dug into this.

So um so changing gears a little bit.

Um, just curious about the district's enrollment forecast for Palmer over the next 10, 5, 10, 15 years, and how does that kind of impact the scale of land use?

And for that question, I will turn it over to District Representative.

Great.

Thanks, Brandon.

Good after good afternoon, counsel.

I'm Brandon Comfort.

I'm the deputy superintendent.

Enrollment is one of the departments that that falls under my purview.

Uh our projection for Palmer is to stabilize around the thousand kid to 1100 student mark.

Um, as you are all aware, uh Palmer used to be significantly larger.

I think we acknowledge and understand that that is not the demographic that continues to occur downtown.

Um we do envision that it will stabilize, obviously, with a new building.

We are uh hoping that families will be lined up wanting to experience what Palmer High School will be, but we do not anticipate that there will continue to be large enrollment declines.

Okay, great, thank you.

Um Councilmember Lime Weber dug into parking a little bit, but I I do want to just ask a teeny bit more about that in that um it it the loss of the significant amount of parking isn't until phase two would be completed.

That's really when the loss would be.

And there really isn't at this point a plan to address that 144 that is currently being used.

Is that correct?

So the the plan would be several fold, and we're just could when we would submit a development plan, we will need to then provide um all of the details uh around that.

So, but I can tell you what we've looked at kind of conceptually.

Um that is uh the district also has um three other um what I call adjacent lots.

Uh those were depicted on that on that graphic.

Those would would be there, those those would certainly remain.

Um and then again, through our conversations uh with city, uh particularly with parking, um they've encouraged us to have conversations uh with some of the other adjacent land uses that have a lot of this ample uh surface parking or garage uh parking.

So those opportunities are all out there into the future.

Um, but as uh Brandon certainly mentioned, actually this the total enrollment uh is potentially gonna be smaller than what was you know years and years ago at at Palmer, and also we're seeing fewer kids driving to school.

I mean, all of those things, and more kids are are walking, particularly in this urban context.

So for all of those reasons, um we're pretty comfortable uh moving forward um as proposed.

Great.

I I I love to see more kids walking as opposed to driving.

I think that's fantastic.

And I come down Weber every single day from my house to City Hall and see students walking from pretty far uh down now to get to get to where they are to get to the school.

Um okay, so um kind of moving into right-of-way uh questions.

Um why is the permanent vacation necessary versus other long-term easements or uh promenade model or something else that would preserve public ownership again?

I'll answer that a couple a couple of ways.

Um it's important to note that there at the point of vacation, there will be an easement that the city will retain, because that will provide for underground utilities uh connecting um those.

Um as the campus in order, in order for um to have this connected campus, in order to be able to build facilities across this corridor, um, it's necessary for the district to be able to own that, uh own that ground and own that uh, as well as to be able to control access during those school hours for that safety for those safety reasons.

Uh and and so that's why we have looked at that uh that vacation.

Um it's a tool that's been used uh in the past, uh, a variety of other campuses as they have grown and expanded.

Okay.

Um and I I do note in the conditions of approval, there are some items there that I think the city has addressed some of these concerns.

But I really specifically need to dial in, and this might be our city staff, I don't know that that answer this, but um uh a few questions.

One is um that the Platte Avenue Corridor project um I think is a 10 or 15 years away from actually being executed.

Um, and that's PPRTA funded.

Um there was a when Boulder and Platt and those areas were still a part of District Five, um, I had I hosted a number of neighborhood meetings of neighbors that were completely opposed to and heard from the city that we would no longer consider the two one-way um turning boulder into one way.

I guess my question is does the vacation of Boulder and the closing of Boulder impact that Platte Avenue corridor um uh plans as they as they exist at this point in time.

Um Richard, you wanna Okay.

Sorry.

Do you mind?

Okay.

Uh thank you, Richard Millet, the public director of the city.

Uh thank you for the question.

And so the answer, I think there were two uh parts to that.

Um first is the the initial the original vision of that stopped at Wasatch.

So the circulation would have stopped there.

So even if this was closed, that vision it wouldn't be affected by closing it.

Second, um it was in the study itself, that was an alternative.

So it was never determined to be the absolute solution.

It was still an alternative.

And I think I think it was kind of a third, and I think you're right, it is some time out.

So that's very helpful.

Thank you.

Um I think this is my last question, at least for now.

Um, and this has to do with just uh uh um consultation with stakeholders.

Now, this is quite a while back, um, at least a year ago, I was um probably about a year ago actually, I was at a meeting um again when this area was still in District 5 with the uh we would meet with Memorial Hospital in Boulder Park and so forth.

And um at that time, this was starting to be in the community conversation, and there were a number of uh memorial executives at that meeting who had heard nothing about this at that time.

Now, granted that was a while ago.

Um, but I haven't seen anywhere in the materials anything specific related to memorial hospitals um concerns or approval of the impact that this would take uh make on the emergency response, which stated was 20 seconds and not deemed to be meaningful.

I'm not an emergency responder expert, so I can't say, but 20 seconds seems like a fair amount to me.

And in other conversations I've had with city staff about other road safety improvements, where even just a few seconds were noted by police and fire as a problem when considering a road safety change.

So I'm trying to square what I've heard in other meetings around road safety and uh and emergency response time.

So I'd really appreciate feeling confident that 20 seconds is um acceptable to Memorial Hospital and to our city.

Okay.

Um I I can simply just share the conversations that that we had very early on with all of those providers.

Uh we all got in one room and we talked about that and they analyzed that.

And then I know the city um also um spent time doing that.

And so I don't know if there's someone from the the city that can if that's Richard or okay, thank you.

Uh Todd Frisbee, city traffic engineer.

It's not meeting at to that question.

I have Commander Snugs in the large conference room back here.

Yeah, I'll be right back.

Thank you.

Madam President, well while we're killing some time here.

Yes, sir.

Uh can I just get an update on where we are in the process is uh public comment next.

Yes, sir.

Okay.

I'll hold off my comments then or questions till after that.

To remind my colleagues, we still do have quite a bit of public comment.

Thank you, Madam President, for that reminder.

Um did you hear the question?

I didn't, ma'am.

I apologize.

Would you mind repeating?

So the the question was really about the 20-second um added response time to um emergency vehicles uh to boulder to Memorial Hospital.

And my question was is that an acceptable amount of additional time?

It was presented by the applicant as such, but I haven't heard that from my own police and fire and nor emergency response nor the medical system to know that that's okay because in fact, and I will repeat this because I think it's very important.

In other meetings I've had, not about this project, but about a different project, even just a few seconds was noted by as a concern when looking at um making changes to the road, that just a few seconds was a concern from police and fire, and now we're talking 20 seconds, and I'm trying to square that difference.

Thank you, ma'am.

Um Shannon Snugs, commander of the Gold Hill Division for the Colorado Springs Police Department.

I couldn't answer for our fire partners or EMS, um AMR who would be the ones that would be most likely to be responding emergent to UC Health on Boulder.

Um for us, the likelihood of us responding code three consistently to UC Health on Boulder is pretty low.

Um we're not the ones providing life-saving measures at that moment, so we aren't going to be the ones that are going to be the most impacted by a 20-second delay that Boulder would potentially cause by closing.

I can say anecdotally from a PD perspective, being the commander of the Gold Hill Division, um, which is where all of this falls into we have experienced minimal concerns from our perspective of getting there.

But again, we aren't the ones that are going to be responding in that code three emergent fashion that the 20 seconds is going to be the most impactful for.

Okay, well, if there is a letter from um AMR or someone in the emergency transport response that says an additional 20 seconds is fine, I would really like to see that.

And I I know you can't have that, but I'm just saying that to the general population here.

Thanks.

And I think I'm done, Madam President.

Chris, is that the end of your presentation?

Okay.

So seeing no more questions at this time, we will move on to public comment in support.

Um as I read your name, um, come up and limit your comments to three minutes.

First step, we have MJ Benati.

I hope I said that right.

You can correct me.

Thank you, Madam President, and uh City Council members MJ Benanadi, Director of Government Affairs for the Colorado Springs Chamber and EDC.

At the chamber, we do not endorse specific development projects, but we do often speak to the merits of development.

I want to speak specifically about the merits of having a strong downtown and organ core, which begins with high quality education outcomes and the physical spaces that we can all be proud of representing our city.

Our future workforce are students in Palmer High, D11, and all of the districts in our city.

If we don't invest in them, they won't be ready for the careers of the future here in our own home region.

We must prepare them for the jobs of tomorrow, and that starts with high quality learning facilities.

As a parent of two young children, I feel personally invested in ensuring our city has schools that we can be proud of.

Additionally, we must emphasize the safety of our students in a busy downtown area that will hopefully continue to grow.

This project meets the requirements for the zoning change for the code and will leave a positive impact on our community for decades.

Thank you.

Next up, we have Chelsea Gondek.

Good afternoon, President, Council.

My name is Chelsea Gondack, and I serve as the CEO for the Colorado Springs Downtown Partnership.

And we at the Downtown Partnership support this project and what it represents for the future of our downtown.

It aligns directly with the vision that's laid out in the Elevate Downtown Plan.

And in fact, it's identified in the very first goal in that plan.

Projects like this are exactly what we envisioned when we were thinking about the kind of town downtown that we want to be, and we are fortunate to have D11 help bring that vision to life.

The scale of the economic investment happening through this renovation sends a strong sign about confidence in our community and in the students who will be educated there.

Major reinvestments in existing institutions are some of the most meaningful commitments a community can make, and this one has the potential for long-term impact.

The location also matters.

Sitting on the northeast edge of what we call downtown today, this project will help anchor the neighborhood and strengthen its identity as downtown continues to grow.

And the concept of a unified connected campus is exactly the kind of approach that integrates students and staff into downtown life, inviting activity, walkability, and connection, and helping instill in young people a sense of ownership in their community that most of us did not have at that age.

We also recognize that there are questions that have been raised about the street closure associated with this project.

From our perspective, we trust the analysis and expertise of the city's traffic engineering team that this change will not negatively impact traffic flow.

We also do not believe that this change will negatively impact foot traffic to the businesses in the corridor.

Since the street closure has occurred, our location-based software, which I checked immediately before walking over here to make sure it's still accurate, actually has seen an increase in such activity, and we want to continue to encourage and create the conditions for safe pedestrian connectivity and micromobility, which has a myriad of connections as a benefit of downtown's grid network.

Additionally, the city's recent curb management study found that there is a significant availability of parking capacity in downtown, including in close proximity to this corridor.

Finally, D11 is already creating meaningful opportunities for apprenticeships, internships, and deeper engagement with our downtown businesses.

Not only do students find that exciting, which I think we should all be honest, is a feat in and of itself, but so does our business community.

We've already begun conversations with the superintendent about how those connections can grow as the project moves forward, and we see real potential for partnerships that benefit everyone, students, businesses, and the broader downtown community.

I truly believe in building a downtown that future generations will thank us for and how fortunate we are to be able to start with a project like this.

It would be a missed opportunity for our community not to move forward.

For those reasons and many more, we are supportive of this project and the role it can play in downtown's continued evolution.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And next step we have Willa, and I am not going to attempt to butcher your last name.

Hello, and thank you for having me.

My name is Willie Kalmanowitz, and I am a student at Palmer High School.

I serve as the treasurer of Sophomore Council and the editor-in-chief of our school newspaper, The Lever.

I'm in full support of the permanent closure of Boulder because it will give Palmer a connected campus.

This is an incredibly important part of a school community.

But Palmer is currently disconnected over three separate blocks.

Not only does this make life difficult for students, but also staff, administration, and security.

Due to our downtown location, which is something that we cannot change, Palmer has many more safety incidents in the community than other schools in District 11.

However, we are organized in a way that makes the school less efficient when responding to those situations.

Security has multiple buildings to lock down and monitor rather than just one.

When we have holds where students can move around inside the building but not leave it, those in the gym get stuck and miss classes due to it.

During regular schedules, students still have to trek across the main campus over two blocks or down to the gym.

It makes school feel extra difficult and disjointed.

Closing Boulder has already made it faster and safer for me to get to the parking lot into school.

So imagine what a permanent closure could do to impact it.

Being an Ivy School, Palmer has something that sets it apart from other high schools in the springs.

Despite this, it still has a reputation of being unsafe due to the location.

The possibility of a connected campus would alleviate students' worries about safety and let them focus on what they're at school to do.

Learn and grow.

Palmer is a historic school with a great legacy.

The closure of Boulder would allow us to go into the future with a new a new legacy, one of safety, connection, and community.

Thank you for your time.

Next up, we have Avani Stack.

Hello, my name is Abonnie Stack, and I'm a junior here in the sophomore.

I'm a junior here at Student Council at Palmer.

Having a closed campus opens up more opportunities for community.

With a campus so spread out, a lot of students are too focused on being able to get from point A to point B in a timely manner.

Students tend to be more independent, which is good, but also more often than not takes away the feeling of community that is so important to Palmer.

With a closed campus, students can focus more on the people around them.

Closing Boulder opens up a large area that can be used for multiple different activities, such as sports spaces as well as potential outdoor learning environments or social spots for lunch or free periods.

Not only does it benefit the average student, but it benefits the athletes and brings them closer together as well.

The sports community can focus less on navigating to different parts of the city and instead be able to feel at home with Palmer's own sports facilities.

All of the sports being together and able to interact with one another opens more opportunities for social, making friends outside of their regular teammates, and building a community that's not separated every day.

If you are a Palmer alumni, you know how special it is to be a terror.

Others, I ask you to not undermine the potential Palmer students hold when handed the right facilities.

I believe the Palmer community is worth your time and thought.

Next up we have Eva Thomas Tapitake.

Good afternoon, Council members, and thank you for having me.

My name is Eva Thomas Tappy Take, and I am a sophomore at Palmer, and I am the vice president of Sophomore Student Council.

I'm a student athlete and I'm around varsity, cross-country, and track.

I'm in support of the Boulder Closure for many reasons, especially student safety concerns.

But today I would like to speak to you specifically about the many possibilities to improve our athletic facilities at Palmer.

Palmer doesn't have a standard track and field right now, as I'm sure you know, and in order to practice, the entire track and field team has to commute to Gary Berry's stadium every single day.

As well as track, lacrosse, soccer, and the softball team aren't also are not able to practice at Palmer, and that may make these sports, which should be accessible to every student, less accessible to many people.

The commute to Gary Berry, or in case of the softball team, the commute all the way to UCCS to practice should not be necessary for a high school student.

And as we've already mentioned, students at other schools in Colorado Springs don't have to do that, as they have athletic facilities that serve their students on campus, not all the way across town.

As a very busy student athlete, there's nothing that sounds better to me than being able to stay at Palmer after school and go to practice without the extra hassle of driving 15 minutes away from school to get there and adding 15 15 extra minutes on my commute home.

That time could be better spent with my team or completing schoolwork for my classes.

Palmer is a school with a long legacy of athletic and academic success.

And closing Boulder Street means that we have a great opportunity to give Palmer the new athletic facilities that future generations of students and faculty deserve.

Thank you for your consideration.

Thank you.

Next up, we have Brooklyn Barnett.

Hi, I'm Brooklyn Barnett.

I'm also a sophomore at Palmer High School.

Um I'm in support for the closure of Boulder for a couple reasons.

One being pedestrian safety, which has already been brought up a lot of times here today.

But as you walk down the block to ERPS Gym, the unhoused population is often lining the path down, creating another obstacle students have to deal with in order to get to classes.

By connecting the athletic facilities, it also makes it easier to monitor students leaving campus.

Right now, students are leaving the building whenever, and when asked why they're leaving class, uh they use the excuse that they're going to the gym when really they're not impacting students' academic success.

Lastly, the walk down to the gym takes time out of class, so by bringing the athletic facilities up to the main building and closing boulder, there's no longer time taken away from learning.

Both the gym classes and health classes, as of right now, are down at ERPS Gym.

And students get an extra 10 minutes, not including passing periods, um, to get to health class, and around 15 to 20 minutes to get to gym class due to the fact that the students have to get ready to participate in the class.

Overall, closing Boulder Street would greatly benefit the Palmer community.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Next up, we have Dennis Moore.

Hi, I'm Dennis Moore.

I'm the lead security at Palmer High School.

Been here for 20 years.

I've seen a lot of kids, staff uh get injured outside of that school, going across the uh crosswalks, and it's not a pretty sight.

So if we can keep these kids safe and the ones coming up, let's go ahead and do that.

I think the hardest problem we have, and my staff is to keep these kids from going places they don't need to go.

But we know we can't do that, but we know which way they're going.

So uh you can imagine if there is an emergency, we've got to move over 1,500 kids at any one time across two or three different crosswalks.

And I only have six of us.

So you can imagine what a big feat that that might be.

Well, Boulder being closed, less traffic outside of the school, less pedestrians, less problems with the non-drivers out there.

That's it's not the kids' fault.

Some of the drivers out there, that's the problem.

We can't correct them.

We can sure keep our kids uh safe.

So if I can go ahead and part anything while you guys debate about a decision about closing boulder, I think it'll be a great decision to close Boulder, and it will definitely benefit our students for a long time to come.

Thank you.

Councilman Donaldson.

Yeah.

And Mr.

Moore.

Yes, sir.

I just have a question or two.

And first, thank you for what you do.

You know, security at a high school.

It's extremely important job, and all of us thank you uh and the other five for what you're doing.

You mentioned you've seen a lot of kids get hurt.

Yes.

Um maybe you can just tell me in 25, 26, what what what has happened?

Well, uh, what happens, like I said, it's the crosswalks and the turning lanes, which is the problem.

And sometimes the sun hits those uh drivers in their eyes.

So if the kid does have the green light to walk, and they're paying attention to the traffic, they never see that kid when they turn turn, take that left onto Boulder or off a plat.

Has a student been hit by a car uh this year or last year?

Last year.

Um how many times is it been?

Uh last year we had a young lady at uh Platte and Wasatch.

Uh-huh.

Uh, same situation.

She was in a crosswalk and the car was trying to beat the uh light and hit her.

And uh she was transported to hospital.

Yes, yes, I went ahead and blocked off traffic, call AMR, and they they took she had a broken uh pelvis and uh knee and ankle.

But uh and this was platch and wasat.

Um I'm just trying to get my streets right.

Okay.

Okay.

And is before that, how far back do we go before the next I had a staff who got hit in the crosswalk of Boulder and Weber, same situation.

The person was going east, Boulder want to take a right onto Weber, and the young lady, uh, one of our teachers got clipped when she stepped into the crosswalk.

How long ago was that one?

Uh three years ago.

Three years ago, okay.

And uh that's what you're referring to when you say lots of accidents, uh people getting hurt.

It's those two acts, those two cars.

Students, yeah, and then and some others.

Okay.

Um you mentioned about 1,500 students.

Earlier, I heard uh stabilize at a thousand to eleven hundred.

Is that accurate?

There's 1500 students.

Uh no, I think that was our previous numbers.

We're a little lower than that now.

And okay, I'll ask later on.

I'll get somebody to give us the exact number.

Thank you very much again.

Thank you.

Next up, we have Krista Burke.

Good afternoon, Madam Chairman, Council members.

My name is Christa Burke, and I'm the principal at Palmer High School.

It's a privilege to be here to speak with you today.

I'm here to express strong support for the vacation of the right of way of Boulder Street and uh the proposed land use plan.

Safety must always come first.

Right now, hundreds of students walk the full city block and cross two busy intersections to Earth's gym every day to move between classes, programs, and activities.

Even with precautions, this creates unnecessary risk.

Closing Boulder Street and approving the land use plan removes that danger entirely.

Gives our students a secure, unified campus where learning can happen without the constant concern of navigating active traffic.

But safety is only the beginning.

Connecting two of our three blocks allows us to reimagine how our campus can serve students.

Yes.

Okay, thank you.

Next up, we have Boyd Boyd Williams.

Boyd Williams.

We do not have Boyd Williams next up.

Um we're inching up uh to three o'clock.

Um, and some countries are members have asked for a break.

So we're going to take a 10-minute break before we go into public comment for opposition.

And we'll start right at three o'clock.

We're in recession.

Our recess is over.

We will now move on to public comment in opposition.

I have Jeanette Carpoon seeding time to Amy Hill.

Jeanette, are you in the room?

And you are ceding your time to Amy Hill.

Okay.

Amy, you have six minutes.

Good afternoon, City Council.

Can you make sure the green button is on?

There you go.

There we go.

Good afternoon, City Council.

My name is Amy Hill, and I'm a resident of Middlesex Run.

I also work downtown.

Alongside me today, I have Cheryl Brown, president of the Historic Uptown Association, and Diane Bridges, Vice President of the Historic Uptown Neighborhood Association.

We're all volunteering our time to represent our communities.

We are here today in support of the funded academic renovations currently underway at Palmer High School, but in strong opposition of the proposed vacation of Boulder Street and the associated zone changes for a practice track and unfunded athletic facility.

We support improving Palmer High School, but we do not support the permanent removal of public streets for a project that is not funded, may not be built for years, and would disconnect our communities.

The permanent closure of Boulder Street would have serious implications for mobility, accessibility, and long-term planning for our city, particularly the surrounding neighborhoods.

Palmer High School sits in the historic uptown neighborhood, Boulder Street connects Middleshooks Run to Historic Uptown and Down.

Our primary concerns include community engagement and lack of funding, the Boulder Street closure, safety, parking, commercial zoning in a residential neighborhood that is a part of a national register of historic districts.

My remarks today referenced the email I sent on December 4th, where I outlined my concerns about community engagement and project funding.

At the heart of this issue is a principle that should guide this decision.

Safety and connection for students and neighbors.

Our community is asking for investment in teacher quality and pay, academic quality, walkable pedestrian and friendly streets, reduced traffic, better multimodal connectivity, support for small businesses, and more affordable housing.

These priorities all point toward strengthening the vibrant connections within our community.

But the Boulder Street vacation moves in the opposite direction by disconnecting neighbors to build a largely inaccessible practice track and an unfunded athletic facility.

Finally, we need to look at the funding reality behind this proposal.

The key point here is simple.

The phase that requires closing Boulder Street is not funded.

Phase two, which provides the administrative administrative infrastructure need for the track, requires at least 100 million dollars in additional bond funding.

ERPS would still be retained, and that bond is still several years away from being presented to voters.

The same voters who haven't been sufficiently engaged in this process and who don't want our taxpayers' dollars used this way.

So today the city is being asked to permanently remove an arterial public ride-away for a project that might not exist for many years or happen at all.

Even then, if the funding is approved, the district estimates that only about 93 to 97% of school functions would be on the consolidated campus.

This means student movement would still continue across surrounding streets, and that safety concerns used to justify this closure would not be fully resolved and would likely be made worse, especially for pedestrians and neighbors.

This is why, as neighbors, we're asking for something very reasonable.

Not to stop Palmer's improvements or ask for them to move from downtown, not to stop the academic renovations, but simply not close Boulder Street now.

Colorado Springs is a growing and changing city.

The decisions we make about downtown cohesiveness and connectivity in transportation today shape how our neighborhoods and neighbors function for decades.

Giving public infrastructure away now based on a project that is not funded and maybe years away, if it happens at all, is not good planning.

It's premature.

It's not necessary to support Palmer High School's vision of educational excellence and community engagement in the heart of vibrant downtown neighborhood.

I ask that you please do not approve the permanent vacation of Boulder Street or the associated zoning changes.

When you're making decisions about our public streets, the standards should always be clear.

Cohesiveness and connectivity for everyone.

Thank you.

Next up, we have Anne DeVall's seating time to Cheryl Brown is and okay, and you're seeding your time to Cheryl Brown.

And Cheryl, you have six minutes.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Cheryl Brown, and I'm the president of the historic uptown neighborhood association.

Palmer is located within this neighborhood.

And I would like to say Palmer has extraordinary teachers, is shaped generations of students.

My daughter's a graduate class of 2018.

I just think that the school is amazing.

I will always support this school.

But then I'm also supporting the businesses, and I'm supporting this city.

And so this is why I'm here.

Slide seven.

Okay, okay, here we go.

Thank you.

And so I'd like to talk about uh we have limited east-west corridors in the city.

Our east-west corridors are stressed.

We're growing Metropolitan City with a vibrant downtown.

Boulder is one of the few continuous east-west routes in the central part of the city.

It helps balance traffic flow between nearby streets.

We have a lot of one-ways, a lot of discontinuous streets.

It carries neighborhood traffic, downtown commuter traffic, business traffic, bus routes, school traffic, emergency access.

This combination makes a part of the city's functional transportation network, not just a neighborhood road.

Removing a central, continuous public arterial in a growing city in a downtown area should require a very high threshold of public benefit and public agreement.

And so I would like to also talk about the safety concerns.

This creates the vacation of Boulder creates traffic on other streets.

And I just want to show just a picture of what these streets look like when you have an unsignalized intersection.

This is two lanes of Nevada.

One lane is completely blocked.

And so, how are we going to get across the downtown area?

It's not a perfect grid.

Parking impacts.

I think that's already been discussed.

They're eliminating 173 parking spaces.

1,350 students, I guess it's now going to be 1,100.

We have questions.

You know, there are remote downtown parking locations.

How are they going to get to this?

How are they going to get to the school safely?

They have to go from remote areas.

This is traffic.

This they're going to have to deal with traffic.

I think that's just the that's just the you know the story of being in a downtown uh facility.

You just have to deal with traffic.

And um I'd like to go to vacation parking uh recommendations.

I'll let Diane go after the recommendations.

Uh I just want to just say real quickly, you know, we do not support the vacation of Boulder Street, consider a more balanced plan.

All we're asking is that you don't put that running track over Boulder.

Put it over an Earth's field.

That's all we're asking.

Keep Boulder open.

There's uh there's there's an ask for commercial zoning, and I just want to say that's been beaten, so I'm not gonna go after that one.

We're gonna move on.

I am against this zoning of FBZ T2A mainly because I don't need it.

So why do it?

Uh it's against a residential neighborhood, and residents get pretty kind of freaked out with these kind of zoning.

And the one thing we want to do is make sure that this neighborhood stays healthy, it stays well invested, it is a very important affordable housing neighborhood.

Don't freak them out.

It freaks me out to see that kind of zoning.

Next.

Um these are the national registered houses.

This is a National Register Historic District.

This district supports a lot of affordable housing.

If you just walk down Weber and you walk down Wasatch, you will notice four to six to eight mailboxes on every one of these houses.

They're important.

You you know, it's just these.

I start asking, okay, it's this these, and then what, then what?

Well, then what?

You know, this is important housing, and we should protect it as best we can.

Uh this is just a picture of where this is.

It has up to 15 affordable units.

This does not have to be removed.

The track does not have to be here.

And so, and all this is the concept plan that presented by D 11, and it's a great plan.

It just moves the track over to Earth's.

If we have safety problems, we need to take care of them.

If WASAS is dangerous, it doesn't have as much that much traffic.

You can road diet.

Do things now.

If it's an unsafe environment, do something about it.

Period.

You know, my I moved here in the downtown and my daughter is completely safe.

I would never move my daughter in a place that I think was unsafe.

This place is not unsafe.

And you know, she's she's navigated the downtown for a long, long time.

So I think we should really take a look at how dangerous we think the downtown really is as opposed to what it really is not that bad.

And if it is bad, do some about it.

I really have supported the dieting of Wasatch for a long, long time.

Slow down the traffic if you have it.

That field next to Nevada Avenue is dangerous.

It is a very polluted thoroughfare.

I don't walk my dogs there, I never walk towards Nevada.

I only walk Wasatch, I only go to Shooks Run, and I only cross over Nevada on weekends, and that's my personal experience with the downtown and Nevada Avenue.

There shouldn't be a track next to it.

Thank you.

Next up, we have Jeff Hodges seating time to Diane Bridges.

Jeff Hodges.

And you have six minutes.

Thank you, President Crow Iverson and council members.

Really do appreciate your service and just uh loved all the questions today.

So thank you.

Um I'm gonna summarize, so you're gonna hear many of the points again, and the goal is just simply clarity.

I would like to emphasize first.

We do support the improving of the high school, and I want to make that clear, and I was hoping the kids would be here to hear that from the neighborhood, right?

Uh, we believe that education is key.

Um it is, and it's important to have a good environment for that, right?

Um, so you know um we we have worked hard uh to find ways to support this effort, and at the same time to provide recommendations that we believe will mitigate the impact to the neighborhood.

So that's what you'll hear here.

Um as you have heard, we are concerned that the plan permanently removes a public arterial for the reasons that you've already heard.

Um we do propose the concept one because we felt that was a nice balance.

It provided much of the security.

Um and it better served the multiple stakeholders that are involved in this.

The students, of course, first and foremost, um, the city, the businesses, downtown, and the neighborhood.

So let me see here.

So again, don't move forward with the vacation and consider our alternative plan.

And if this plan is not possible, then delay and find one that is more balanced to support the variety of stakeholders.

If you do choose to move forward with the vacation, we wanted to provide some comments in the event that you decide to do that today.

Minimally, we do feel that it's wise not to move forward until funding is approved for the entire master plan.

Number one, number two, we also were discouraging the building of the cantilever over the Boulder Avenue until again funding is approved.

So we think that big large aspect is an unknown, as well as the emergency situation that Nancy brought up earlier.

Also, during planning commission, when they heard this, they I believe approved the vacation, but established several conditions.

We do agree with those conditions and are supportive of uh first there there were two of them, excuse me.

One is the public access, in other words, allowing public access through this area during non-uh school hours.

Number one, number two, also that in the event that uh District 11 no longer needs this area, um, that there's a return of ownership to the city if the city chooses to have it.

We'd like to add a third condition.

You've heard a lot of discussion about the parking.

Parking for the near term, phases one and 1A and 1B, I believe, are um uh handled.

It's just the future, right?

The future is not.

Um there's there were some good ideas thrown by the individuals involved, and even the downtown partnership saying that they would support it.

My ask is our ask is either make it a condition that they provide off-street parking for their needs, or at least before you approve this, get commitment for um the uh parking slots.

Otherwise, it'll be in the neighborhood.

Um, so we also, in addition to those three conditions, we have um some actions that we're asking of the city, and perhaps you could give direction to our city administration for that, is um as Cheryl identified, uh the traffic safety measures that we believe with the closure of Boulder, um, the existing safety measures that Travis and his team evaluated just uh year or so ago, that those will um become exasperated.

So we ask that the recommendations in the traffic study be uh prior focused on, prioritized and accomplished, and that be part of this effort.

Um also in the neighborhood that is surrounding this, and I know you all are tired, uh, in the neighborhood that surrounds this.

We're asking that the city please establish a parking permit program for the residents that live there.

So two conditions legally, and then two actions for the city we're asking for, please.

Um here we just highlighted some of the um safety items.

It really addresses the students and the neighborhood.

Uh, there were traffic measures on Wasatch, um, establishing another signalized uh uh route, if again Boulder no longer exists, and then looking at pedestrian islands and a few other things.

Again, these were items addressed in a study that Travis and his team has already done, or excuse me, Todd, and uh we're asking for prioritization of that.

Uh last but not least, you've heard that we're concerned about putting commercial zoning in a neighborhood, commercial zoning in a neighborhood, and we heard that it's not critical.

So that's a lot.

Thank you for listening.

Uh, we respectfully asked for your consideration of these recommendations and asks.

We feel that they are positive, positive ways to move forward with the high school renovation, yet mitigate the challenges in our neighborhood.

Thank you.

Next up, we have Joe Cole seating time to Richard Scorman.

Joe Cole.

Okay.

Good afternoon, Richard.

And as you know, you have six minutes.

Yeah, that's great.

When I was the president, I tried to get council cots in the in the break room so everybody could take naps, but I don't think it happened.

It should be though.

I appreciate you taking all this time.

Um I uh went around yesterday, it was in the afternoon uh because I knew about this meeting today, and I wanted to talk to business owners on my block, which is between Platte and uh Boulder on Tejone Street, and then I went one block south and one block uh north to St.

Varrain, and then I went over to uh Boulder between Tejon and Nevada.

And I just went in and simply asked, you know, how do you feel about this?

Uh two-thirds of the people that I talked to, they weren't always the owners, in many cases they were the managers.

We didn't know about.

We uh we thought that the uh the construction was going to be temporary, that uh eventually they were gonna open up Boulder again.

And nobody really asked me how I felt about it.

And so I went through and I I wrote down a list of the people and I gave it, I just gave it to you that I did talk to that oppose it.

Uh now they may be you know able to be talked into it, but nobody knocked on our doors.

The businesses that were going to be affected, I think they just went to the businesses that were right adjacent on um Nevada between Boulder and Platt.

And uh so you know, people were upset, very angry.

They're really gonna close it permanently?

Why?

And I tried to explain, and you know, the the everybody, including myself are huge fans of Palmer.

And uh, you know, we love the students that come into our business.

We often let them come in with their sack lunches and get one person gets a coke, and that's fine because we know that uh they need a place, safe place to be.

And we're all concerned about traffic, and that's certainly an issue for everywhere, you know, that you're talking about, and we certainly understand it.

But boy, this is just drastic.

Uh if you think about there's three arterials in downtown.

There's Boulder, there's Platte, and there's Cal Pike's Peak, Colorado.

No other way to get from the east into downtown, no other way to get to highway uh to I-25.

No way to get to the new um, you know, uh hopefully Creek uh COS and the Pikes Peak Greenway that's going to be put together with the with the um the Shooks Run.

Uh this was always meant to be a uh a bicycle uh infrastructure boulder was.

In fact, it's part of the bicycle master plan.

And the reason why is because it goes up to the Olympic training center.

But but the the biggest issue for me, and because I've been in business 50 years, I've had to deal with it a lot, is that we've had so many customers over the years, and I you know, I know a lot of them are getting older, you know, the baby boomers, and that we've had to drop everything and rush them up to Memorial Emergency Road because they were having a heart attack or they were having a stroke.

Well, now if there's an a 9-1-1 emergency, you know, like that, and the ambulance has to come to our block or the block further north, they're gonna have to go around and back and the the 20 seconds is not gonna be 20 seconds.

My guess is it's gonna be five minutes.

How many people are gonna die in those five minutes?

Because all of a sudden you've taken the the direct route arterial to Memorial Hospital.

And isn't it one of the busiest emergency rooms in the country still?

Um we're always proud of that, even when uh when you know you leased it to UC Health, that was part of the requirement is that you have to really treat people.

It makes me uh concerned if what you're saying is is true, Nancy, that they haven't really talked to the people in the emergency room or the people the the executives uh who are running memorial, maybe they have.

But if it's just the 911 folks of the Cairo Springs fire, it's great.

You know, and they they, by the way, Fire Station One can get down quickly and and uh help and and uh put out a fire.

But what if the transport people have to transport somebody from our block or the block further south?

And then it it could really affect businesses, and and uh it's always it's been a struggle really since the office workers didn't come back after COVID.

So many restaurants downtown, 138.

Many Denver restaurants have opened up a branch down here.

And a new one comes in, and we all struggle because we don't have the office workers at Launch Rush lined up at the door like we used to.

And there's just too many of the places downtown that compete with each other.

You know, maybe 15 coffee houses, maybe 10 pizza places.

You know, you go through the list.

So the reason that the people I talked to were upset was boy, you know, it's it's hard enough.

And then I'll leave you with one one more um business point of view is that uh, you know, I plug meters at Christmas, and and uh it's one of those things that uh is a gift to me and not to the uh the people that come down.

The number one complaint is so hard to get downtown, so hard to park.

Uh I I'm gonna stop coming now because I just can't I I can't maneuver around uh um a lot of people come to our business on Boulder because they can park diagonally in front.

Well, now they're gonna have to go plat.

It's gonna be it's gonna have more traffic, and I'll finish in just a second, and do a U-turn.

Are we gonna lose business?

Absolutely.

And so, anyhow, they thank you for listening.

And uh I uh didn't want to come to council again because uh I know that uh you don't want to hear from old council people, but this was important.

Thank you.

Councilman Donaldson.

Yeah, thanks, Madam President.

And uh Richard, it just depends on who the old councilperson is.

Oh, that's true, that's a good point.

The the businesses you walked around and talked to, are those the ones that are down here that always if you want, I can read you the list of the ones.

They're not all there, those are all the ones.

Uh huh.

But these are the ones I talked to yesterday, and I'll go through it real briefly if you want, that don't want to.

Please do.

With the Madam President's permission.

Is that okay?

Okay.

It'll be three minutes.

Sure.

I have a question too before you do that.

But of course, um, you mentioned the old baby boomers.

They're not old.

Um, how many of those baby boomers have you had to transfer to the hospital?

You know, uh, over the 50 years, probably 500.

500?

Yes.

And and not necessarily us, but the you know, the emergency ambulance service, but in some cases us.

In a year.

Yeah.

Because uh you know, you think in a given year, you know, we have thousands of people that come in through our doors, and um you just you just never know.

It can happen once a month, maybe, you know, once uh sometimes two, three times a month when we're busy.

So you know, it's it's definitely an issue if they're having a stroke.

It really is.

Thank you.

Yeah, and then the businesses that I did talk to that expressed concerns.

They weren't saying they were absolutely opposed, but they wanted to know more, and they also wanted uh, but many of these people were just you know blatantly opposed.

And it was Tony's Wobbly Olive, Louise Pizza, State Farm, Chase Bank, Bank of Colorado, Rastapasta, the uh the Ohana Kaka Bar, Supernova, Odyssey, the best, home lighting, uh, Elk Beauty and Wellness, Henley's, and the barbershop and Colorado Co-op, plus the four poor poor Richards businesses.

So thank you.

Yeah, thank you.

Thank you.

Next up, we have Kathy New York.

Good afternoon, council members.

My name is Kathy New, and I've lived in Colorado Springs since 1961.

So I've been here a long time.

Um I am speaking in opposition opposition to the vacation request of East Boulder Street between North Nevada and Weber.

I am very familiar with Palmer High School as my father was a Palmer teacher for over 30 years.

I'm a 1979 graduate, the mother of two graduates, and I recently retired from District 11 in the IT department where I worked for 27 years.

I am concerned about transferring ownership of city property when other options are available, and when the school district doesn't have a guarantee of future funding for that project.

While District 11 did have community feedback meetings during the 2024-2025 school year, the current building plan submitted to the D11 board in April 2025 was never submitted for review or feedback during a community meeting.

Proposed plans presented during the community meetings had several options for handling pedestrian traffic above ground, but only one included a closure of Boulder Street.

The other options included ways to revitalize the buildings and services on the north side of Boulder, as well as at the Earth's gym location, and keep the Boulder Street section public.

An underground tunnel is already available for students to use to get between the buildings on either side of Boulder.

I am also concerned about traffic and public access.

Boulder Street is a major thoroughfare through downtown, which already has limited east-west access.

To close this permanently for traffic could be a safety issue if traffic is ever disrupted on Platte.

Or the Colorado Pikes Peak Streets.

In the past, Boulder was also used as a primary east route for ambulances to Memorial Hospital.

Currently, District 11 has earmarked 100 million from a certificate of participation that was issued in 2024.

That is for the current phase one of this project on the south side of Boulder Street.

There is no guarantee of future funding, and with the unexpected construction costs and budget overages they've experienced.

I would encourage you to request more concrete financial support from D11 before making any decisions.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next step, we have Daniel Way.

Good afternoon.

I'm Daniel Wei.

And for eight years I've lived in Middleshooks Run, just two blocks to the east of Palmer High School.

I like Palmer's urban campus, how spread out the students engaging with their city.

It reflects a mutual trust in our community.

That's powerful, and it's worth the investment that District 11 is making in renovating the academic building.

I support that part of the plan.

The public needs Boulder Street.

The city recognized Boulder Street's value more than 150 years ago, and the neighborhood has only grown since then.

It's designated currently by our city traffic engineering as a minor arterial, just like Weber Wasatch and Tejone.

Thousands of neighbors walk and bike on Boulder at all hours throughout the year, not just during school.

Students and staff are part of the public too, but their needs don't outweigh everyone else's.

The city code is clear.

A public right-of-way must no longer be needed for public transportation before it can be vacated.

The petitioner has failed to demonstrate our lack of need for Boulder Street, nor do the staff recommended conditions extinguish that need.

As the project architect stated to the DRB, the practice track is the only part of the construction that must overlap Boulder Street.

District 11 has indicated they're going to continue using ERPS facility, and students will still travel four miles to Gary Berry for practice and competition.

This proposal is a campus expansion.

The only part of the plan, the part of the plan which will change student circulation, is a locker room and classes that are part of the phase two athletic facility being built on the North Campus.

As you've heard multiple times, there's no money for that right now.

So council may be irreversibly forfeiting a public right away for a plan whose critical phase is unfunded, likely leaving a more dangerous configuration because the students will need to walk down to the locker room at ERPS to come use the new track.

I ask that you deny the vacation of Boulder Street and approve the land use plan with the condition that the track and field be removed.

Furthermore, vacating Boulder Street ignores the real issue.

These intersections around Palmer are dangerous unless the city acts.

Please address safety at these crossings before someone gets hurt again.

Do it quickly.

We can do it with paint and barriers like we've done around the CC Arena and other pedestrian safety projects in the city.

When the new gym is completed, prohibit vehicles from Boulder Street is an option.

Our city can prioritize safety for students and neighbors without giving up public land.

Public streets belong to all of us.

Let's keep Boulder Street open to the public.

Thank you.

Next up we have Cheryl Downey.

Hello, thank you for the time today to speak.

My name is Cheryl Downey.

I'm a Carl Springs native, truly born right here in College of Springs, and I'm a Palmer High School graduate, a proud Palmer alumni.

Um I am not in favor of vacating Boulder Street, although I am highly in favor of Palmer having a long and successful uh legacy for years to come.

I believe that there's a couple of false dichotomies that you've been handed here today.

One is that a contiguous campus is needed for academic success.

I want to say that I went to Palmer when it was as it is now and went on to obtain my PhD.

Many of my um fellow graduates went on to become doctors and other various advanced degrees.

So I do not believe that that um that you that model that you've been presented here today that you have to have a contiguous campus in order to have academic excellence is accurate.

I also want to talk briefly about a demographic cliff that is coming.

It's been touched on just a little bit here today, but um my statistics actually come from the Western Interstate Commission for Higher Education, and I believe it's very important that you understand this.

Beginning last year, um, all high schools everywhere are facing a demographic cliff.

This is because when um the big recession in 2007 hit, people greatly decreased having babies.

And so um high schools are expecting a 13% decrease in their population between now and 2040.

I would encourage you to look at it.

The graphs are pretty dramatic.

So while they have told us that they are expecting population to level out, the reality is national statistics state that 13 percent fewer students are going to be present.

It's even more dramatic in urban schools, it's better in rural, slightly better in uh suburban, but in western schools that are in um urban settings, it's kind of the worst.

Colorado is actually on the list for one of the worst, sort of like five schools or five states for this to happen.

So I want you to consider that carefully.

We're being asked to vacate something that we may need for emergency services or or even just convenience for for something that I think is a false dichotomy.

I do not believe that you have to close Boulder in order to keep students safe, and I don't think you have to close it in order to have academic excellence.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next up we have Richard Henley.

My name is Richard Henley.

Thank you for letting me speak here.

Um couple things that were brought up uh Nancy hit hard on the 22nd, they say for emergency vehicles.

I'm a volunteer firefighter and familiar with emergency vehicle operations.

And further, I speak with a lot of the ambulance personnel that actually run the ambulances in this town.

I that 20 seconds sounds like a guess out of somebody's brain in the ultra conservative.

I it's sometimes more than 20 seconds to clear a single intersection.

So I suspect it, as Richard said, it's more like two to five minutes to get around without the Boulder Street access there for the ambulances.

Second thing that is I go past Palmer High School on Platte every day going to work, and the thing I've noticed since Boulder has been closed is that there's a very high incident of people just parking in the travel lane at Platte Avenue to offload students going to the school.

And uh that didn't seem to be a problem before Boulder was closed.

Boulder Eastbound traffic is about non-existent, and it was a good place for curbside unloading for students, but now they're doing it on plat or on Nevada Avenue.

And I've seen several close calls a week where there's almost an accident because of the of that practice.

And it's only a matter of time before students are hurt because of that.

So the permanent closure of Boulder, I think, is is uh violation of student safety on that aspect.

Thank you thank you.

And that ends um our public comment.

Um, and that is now closed.

There'll be no more public comment.

Um we will move back to the applicant rebuttal.

And the applicant is now allowed a rebuttal and shall be limited to the issues raised in preceding testimony or argument, no new evidence shall be presented during this rebuttal.

And you have five minutes.

Okay.

Thank you, Madam President.

Uh, Chris Lieber uh with NES once again.

Um one of the comments, the most recent comment uh had to do with the demograph uh demographic cliff.

I believe that if you had a representative from D11 here that there is competition between high schools.

And this be ultimately becomes a choice about do you want Palmer, do you want downtown high school to be a place that thrives?

And that's ultimately what this what this uh proposal uh is about.

And so while you can't you can't fight demographics, um you do have choices about where you're going to invest and which schools you want to uh certainly thrive.

I want to address some of the uh community engagement, whether it be focus groups that uh directly uh reached out uh to business owners, uh whether it's the downtown uh newsletter, uh direct mailings within a thousand feet that have gone out more than five beginning more than five months ago, and I've lost track of of how many uh mailings uh went out that went out and included um uh those those businesses and included uh that section of Tehone, all within a thousand uh a thousand feet.

Um I think you you have heard from uh um from uh Chelsea Glondek that there was uh uh door to door outreach uh also uh by uh downtown partnership to engage and just encourage participation uh in the process.

Uh letters went out through Hey Neighbor, uh again, through downtown partnership, through TV coverage, all of these uh looking for ways to get folks uh in engaged.

Uh I want to emphasize that a number of the folks that spoke uh said uh that they wanted to see conditions of approval and they felt uh those were appropriate.

Those are places where the district agrees and certainly uh are comfortable uh with moving uh forward uh with those.

One of the questions though that did come up had to do with with funding.

I want to make it clear the district has said the funding is there for for phase one B, that is for the track.

Um the district is is uh having conversations about uh potential uh a bond measure for funding for phase two.

Um but how can I ask this question how can the district move forward with a request for funding if they don't have uh uh a right of way uh secured?

How do they make a bond measure subject to um council approving uh uh a right of way?

So it's it's uh to be honest, it's a little bit of certainly I think a chicken and egg to be uh to be fair.

When we look at traffic, when we look at uh traffic movements, uh emergency access, we rely on the experts.

That's who we bring uh to the table to do those studies.

And in this case, again, we've had the benefit of not just projecting what this might look like, but also to measure the the real life uh uh scenario over the the NAS the last uh uh nine months.

I know there are comments about the location of the track and that somehow having the track along Nevada would be measurably worse than having the track along Platte.

I'm I'm not sure uh how how to justify that one over uh the other, um, but we certainly believe uh having that track located in Nevada uh makes uh makes a lot of sense.

Um one of the comments also uh had to do with the percentage of students that would no longer have to be um uh walking all the way down to Herbst.

And uh the measurement that was suggested was that 93 to 97 percent.

I think the district would be thrilled if they could reach that uh that percentage and and eliminate all of those additional uh crossings uh beyond uh what what uh they they see today.

That's gonna be uh that's gonna be uh a critical.

Um certainly the the district's ability to uh pull uh uh a building uh building permits, uh that's important for uh for the right-of-way vacation.

Um also uh uh I think uh uh to be clear, this also, and I'm I'm just kind of working my way down based on what what we heard.

Um this also I think becomes kind of a question of prior of safe prioritizing safety uh over convenience.

And um again, we've had the nine months to uh to look at that and understand uh that we haven't seen an increase in uh in accidents or other or other um issues.

Uh D 11 is prepared to uh enter into an agreement again for those conditions of approval, and certainly uh the neighbors had suggested wouldn't it be great if there were additional pedestrian improvements made in and around uh the neighborhood?

I know that uh the uh uh city traffic has looked at some of those.

Uh the district would be all in favor of seeing additional uh pedestrian improvements because it would help with students uh walking to school, coming to school.

So I think that's another place really of uh commonality.

Um so I think in in closing, uh what I want to just uh uh mention is that from a zoning perspective, the district is trying and working hard to to step in and follow uh the entitlement uh requirements.

And uh if we if we don't go down the path uh of a zone change, uh in many ways you're you're encouraging uh the district to continue to just look look towards look towards the state, look aside from uh many of those standards uh that today don't work from a residential or commercial perspective.

The district would love to be able to step into a place with appropriate zoning that would allow the building to move forward without variances, without um all of those changes and provide the assurances that the neighborhood needs for building height, building setbacks, and all of those pedestrian standards.

So with that, I'll I'll conclude.

Thank you.

Well now here for um final comments from city staff Ryan T for Toler, urban planning manager.

I don't believe I have any real um formal final comments.

I I guess the one the one thing I would maybe say is um the formal public notice through the planning department for this project has been extensive.

I believe we've mailed postcards five different times uh at time of submittal prior to downtown review board, prior to planning commission, and actually twice prior to city council.

Those uh postcards were sent to all property owners within a thousand feet that does span west all the way to Cascade.

So any property owner um along Tejone or in the surrounding area was notified at least five different times of this project.

Um I'd also just say we're happy to answer any questions.

I speak on behalf of the planning department.

I know that we have folks from Traffic Engineering Public Works and others uh that are happy to answer any additional council questions.

Councilman Donaldson.

Yeah, thanks, Madam President.

Ryan, were were all those cards when they were mailed out, is that all after it was determined that it would be to close the to vacate boulder?

Correct.

On all five note, all five occurrences, the postcards specifically, uh the language on the postcard specifically said in the vacation of Boulder Street between Nevada and Weber.

Okay.

And to return to this uh the 20 second estimate, if we close Boulder, that would slow um traffic.

Can you uh help me understand that?

How does traffic get around that closure in 20 seconds?

Can I talk about that?

Defer to Mr.

Mullady.

Okay, if we have to.

I'm sorry.

I just wanted to add some context to where I think um the 20 seconds came from, if I if I may.

I do I certainly do not want to speak on behalf of the fire department.

I'm an engineer, I know nothing about fire.

Have you ever seen one?

I have okay.

So um just so you know that the 22nd came from an internal memo that was the that was uh asked for um uh on behalf of of uh Travis, and it was from the police department, a deputy chief of EMS from the fire department, and Todd Frisbee, the traffic engineer.

And that internal memo was to inform the mayor on our analysis and so and specifically related to this issue.

And so in the memo, that's where the 20 seconds comes up.

And I'm just gonna read it for you.

It's a it's a few sentences.

And it says um right here it says the response time is currently 2.54 minutes, so two minutes and 32 seconds.

Can I can I just ask the response time from where to where?

Yes, sir.

Uh see so that would be from the intersection analysis to term of the safety off of access to East Boulder between Nevada and Weber.

East Boulder between Nevada and I can add two to that's basically the um school campus east down Boulder to Memorial, UC Health Campus.

Point A to point B, respectively.

So from the uh west side of uh the campus all the way to the hospital.

Correct.

Correct.

Yeah.

So without the closure, two minutes 32 seconds with the closure, two minutes 52 seconds, because they would go north to same brain, then east, and then back down to Boulder.

Okay.

I just have a hard time believing that anybody can uh can go north, then across, then back down, and then back on the road and do that in 20 seconds, but but uh okay.

Yeah, I mean again, this is the you know, this is the analysis of the paper.

And I would just continue.

The closure would not this is the what was found in the memo.

The closure would not cause a major impact of response times and any other routes originating from the north or south of East Boulder, we'll use the alternative routes regardless of the blocked access of that segment.

So I just wondered that's just I wanted to give you context of where the 20 seconds came from, because we've been talking about it.

So it came from that memo.

Hopefully that's helpful.

Okay, yeah, it is.

It's good to uh to hear that.

But I don't know if anyone drove it and to see uh how long it takes to go up across back down and then turn left and uh keep going uh down boulder.

It's just um okay.

Thank you, thank you, Richard.

And I do I forget it was uh it was Ryan that was speaking.

Ryan, um another uh one of the gentlemen who just spoke mentioned how Boulder was being used to uh drop students off uh before it was closed, and I come down Weber, and uh there is a lot of congestion in front of the school, like with I think it is with people being dropped off, and then apparently on the other two streets, Nevada and and Platte.

Um has that been considered, addressed, thought of Ryan T for Tiller again.

Uh yes, and specifically the development plan that I mentioned previously um that is currently under review, it's not in front of council today, but the development plan does call out bus loading zones, parent drop-off zones, ADA parking areas, um, and student and faculty parking areas.

So the that level of detail obviously isn't illustrated on the land use plan in front of you today, but it is certainly being um uh planned, reviewed and and considered as part of the development plan and I I do have uh a question for yourself or for traffic, and it has to do with the levels of service which are in the uh the book, you know, in our in our packet, which we uh on this um is Todd still here?

Todd is, yes.

There he is.

And so um before I ask the questions, uh I had mentioned this before.

I think this is an important part of what we're discussing and and trying to make you know make a good decision on.

Would you like to give an overview of of traffic impacts uh by closing boulder in your in your opinion?

Yeah, sure.

I uh I'd be happy to um Todd for this be city traffic, city traffic engineering.

Uh as you know, Lyle addressed this um uh uh earlier in in the in the hearing.

Uh yes, we did receive two traffic studies, two traffic studies, one before the closure, one after this.

Uh we've specifically asked for the study after the after the closure because we knew we had an up we knew we had an opportunity to evaluate traffic with the closure.

Um I've been up here many times talking about a levels of service, right?

And level and and just for context, the level of service is the is a measure of it's not it's ABCD E and F, but it's not a great, it's not a grade card.

It's not a it's not a uh letter grade, it is based on the delay, and we have a threshold that we uh look to achieve at least a level service D.

Uh we can sort of that as an acceptable level of operations during the peak hour.

So that's what we look at.

That's our standard in traffic engineering.

So from can you just remind us Todd, how many minutes of waiting at the light is that yeah.

So level service D, uh the threshold, the lower threshold, is that right, Ryle, the lower threshold, is 55 seconds of average delay.

So, you know, so sometimes you have zero delay because you got through the light.

Sometimes you get caught right at the right as it turns red, and you wait you wait a minute and 10 seconds.

Or you may you wait 110 seconds.

So over time, so every three to peak hour you're expected.

Um the maximum level service de cutoff is 55 seconds of delay.

Um we looked at it, we look at that um by intersection and by and by movement.

Uh so um in looking at the levels of service.

You've you've seen the packets and you've seen the results.

You know, we were showing that before level service C's and Bs in a lot of places at our signalized intersections, and we see um uh after the closure, sort of that same level of service.

We see level service and level level service C at our intersection.

So in our evaluation, just looking at the impacts of a closure, we you know, we find that the levels of service with the closure are acceptable, uh, and that the impact of the closure is not significant from a traffic flow point of view.

St.

Frain uh in Nevada, it looks like in the PM goes to a level of service F.

Yeah.

Uh um in both directions.

And it's uh you know, it started off at at E and D and then went to F and F.

Um.

Can you just speak about that?

Sure.

So uh what I would and what is level of service F?

How long is that?

Okay.

Uh okay, now all right.

I guess it'll be a little more complicated.

So sorry.

Um so there are different thresholds for let for delay, whether your intersection is signalized or whether it's correct stop control.

Um so and and so the threshold for level Lyle, you're gonna have to help me.

Level service F, what's the you know, unsignalized?

50 seconds.

The threat the sort of cutoff for level service F is 50 seconds average delay during the peak during during the peak hours.

Uh and um so uh um so when we look so when we look at unsignalized intersections, stop controlled intersections, uh we we're evaluating it.

It can't it is expected during the peak hours that you would see some additional delay, especially when you're trying to add a stop sign, trying to cross, trying to get across, get across the street.

Uh and so uh we have a little more tolerance for uh a levels of service of E and F at our unsignalized intersections than we do at our signalized intersection because our signalized intersections just have more traffic.

Uh and so uh um when we're looking, we're evaluating traffic studies, those are some of the things that we consider in in those evaluations.

Okay.

And uh perhaps you're the you're the street man.

Um how long do you think it takes a car to go around a block like that?

Like 20 seconds?

No, I'm not doing math.

Uh I was just uh I I I don't know.

The blocks are roughly 400 feet, right?

Uh they are um if say you were heading north, uh on and the college.

So you're heading sitting north on you wanted to go east on Boulder, right?

And you wanted to go, so you can't, so you go north to Varan South St.

Bahrain.

Yeah.

Uh you know uh if you're emergency vehicle, lights on, right?

It's mostly right, it's two right turns and then a left turn.

Uh and so I would consider, I would guess there'd be very little delay in making those moves.

If you were coming southbound on Nevada, and you know the boulder was closed, you turned left on St.

Bahrain, it would be a left turn, a right turn, and another left turn with your lights on.

I didn't do the calculations.

Uh you know, FD, you know, did those calculations.

I don't know what speed they use to make that calculation.

Um you know, I'm going to assume that those calculations are right and that you that they they feel confident you can make that move in 20 seconds.

Okay.

And this will be my final question.

And then I know there are other council members who are lined up to ask some questions.

Um we've received emails that talk about the tunnel that goes under Boulder, and that hey, that that should be uh that should be a way to assure safety is to use the the uh the hallway or tunnel that is underneath Boulder.

I don't know if it's you or a school officials, so you should talk about that.

It's not me.

I know nothing about that tunnel.

How fast can you get across the tunnel?

Yeah, I don't know.

I know I know nothing about that.

Any other questions for traffic engineer while I'm up here?

Let me just finish mine and then no no, but but that gentleman can come up.

Okay.

Thank you.

So let's talk about the tunnel for just a second.

So one of the principles that we're using to guide this design process is crime prevention through environmental design.

And so that's used in an urban context also, but it's being applied to schools now.

And so we're using that context to design the school.

So one of the things they talk about, the the the largest thing that if you look at the national studies around student safety, the number one aspect is circulation or traffic getting through and from to and from school.

So just like we were dealing with Palmer, that's what the studies talk about.

The other thing that studies talk about more so than anything from crime prevention through environmental design is the uh the emotional safety of students.

So where you're unseen, unsupervised, or un or you don't have a lot of traffic around you, then you're in more opportunities for bullying or other opportunities.

That long tunnel that goes underneath Boulder Street is not very well supervised, except at passing periods, and it provides an area that's not very well welcoming for students or very safe for students long term for students in the building.

So it's still used?

It's still used right now.

It will not be used after the completion of the master plan of the project.

Okay.

But as of today, um that is how students are uh recommended to to cross Boulder?

Actually, the students are benefiting right now because Boulder Street is closed, and so they they cross Boulder Street above ground into the auxiliary gym where the cafeteria is located right now.

And so there's a small percentage of students that use the tunnel right now.

The majority use the street access to the auxiliary gym.

Okay, how wide is that tunnel?

Is it as wide as that doorway or it's about eight feet?

Okay, so it is.

It does not connect two primary buildings.

It does not main way that children navigate campus even before the construction.

Go ahead.

I want to well go ahead, sir.

Yeah.

Matthias Wilson, I'm the athletic director at Palmer.

Um that's how you get to our auxiliary gym.

It is not how you get down to our main gym and herbs, so it would not solve any of the problems crossing Wasatch or Weber.

Uh so the tunnel is fine right now to get to the auxiliary gym, which is not a uh uh massive situation that happens.

Uh, but it would not like we would need a tunnel down two blocks to solve all the problems if the tunnel was the answer.

Um well, we're just talking about closing uh Boulder right now, so it's just a way to get under Boulder and not uh hit by a car.

So we don't have the capacity within that tunnel to navigate children every day to and from north of Boulder to south of Boulder.

That tunnel serves a very specific purpose of connecting the main academic building to the auxiliary gym, which serves a minimal purpose academically for our children.

Most children right now, prior to the construction, just cross Boulder Street and wait for the light to change.

The idea of children going down and under and back up as an offset to a potential safety situation due to traffic is not feasible for the way that that tunnel is built and the ingress and the egress of both the main building and the aug auxiliary.

It's uh if you were to think of a catacomb, it is for all intentions and purposes what the kids consider a great place to go underneath because it's almost a special access.

It's not a main thoroughfare, and it wasn't designed in any of the alternative models for the Palmer.

Most of those initiatives were to lift and elevate that crosswalk space above ground, and you heard from some community members that they didn't support bridges over Boulder either.

We do not want children underground if we don't have to have them.

We believe a connected campus puts them in the best light for their academic growth and their mental health.

Why um when was it built?

What year was that built?

Uh the original building is built in 1939.

I believe that that tunnel is part of the auxiliary gym which came in the 60s.

Is that correct?

Yeah, we received an email from uh a woman who graduated for Palmer and she was you know, thought, hey, we used to use this when I was there, it worked perfectly well.

Then I guess kids started fighting in the tunnel.

And uh, well, we have a lot of cameras and lights and security.

We have we have uh more ways to observe who's doing what today than ever before in America.

And uh so just a thought that uh that is uh uh a possible piece of a solution.

But we appreciate the perspective.

I don't know.

Okay.

You're welcome.

You're welcome.

Uh thank you.

Councilman Bailey.

Thank you, Madam President.

I've got a couple questions for Mr.

T for Tiller, and while he's coming up here, I'll just opine as to the quaintness of worrying about going around a city block to get around an access.

A lot of us live in parts of the city where my east-west um alternatives are Northgate, Interquest, and then uh then research, Briar Gate and Research.

Um takes a little bit longer than 20 seconds to go any of those places and a three-minute, three-minute delay, three-minute response time from a hospital for those of us in some parts of this city.

We we would we would love to have three times that.

Um, so understand some context for you know, and it it's certainly not meant to diminish the concerns of the people that are that are worried about those things, but going around a city block is a fairly minor inconvenience, and the number of ambulance runs that are just going on a straight shot down Boulder can't be that many.

They got to come up and around and go north or south one way or the other at some point.

So, anyway, Mr.

T for Tiller, now that you've made it up here, you should have slowed down a little bit so it didn't look like I was working so hard.

Um got a couple questions because there was a comment made about zoning being not critical.

And uh I wish that my colleague, Mr.

But it's my understanding, I think from the from the presentation today that the school district as a government entity has the ability, has certain authorities that other property owners don't have.

There are a lot of things that they could do right now that they don't have to do.

To me, it's it strikes me that a lot of what we're seeing here is an effort to kind of go above and beyond to collaborate with the city to make sure that we're doing the right things for the city as a whole, and make sure that that partnership works.

Make sure that that partnership is um you know, foremost in our minds because but am I correct to say that there are a lot of things that uh the district could do uh on this property that they own without ever coming to see us, uh ever coming to ask e even you, right?

In the planning department.

Ryan T for Tiller, yes.

Um that that is essentially uh correct.

I tried to hit on it during my presentation that the the state of Colorado has deemed public education a public um uh good and that public school districts have uh additional rights that typical private property owners or nonprofits, religious institutions, etc.

do not have.

Um I I've been with the planning department for over 20 years, and I've seen lots of school projects be um processed in a wide variety of ways.

There are certain projects where school districts um come in early, have uh very early dialogue with planning staff, they want to understand zoning, they want to understand neighborhood context and process and work very closely with us to adhere to those standards just as any other property owner would.

Um, there are other school projects for whatever reason where we may not even know about it until it's it's under construction and being built because we're drive by and we and we see the work being done, and that's their right to to get those permits through the state.

Um I will say on this particular project, uh School District 11 has been a great partner.

They initiated dialogue with planning staff and other city staff very early.

Uh, we had um great conversations about um options.

Uh you've seen some different concepts that were discussed by for some of the stakeholders that were presented to not only stakeholders and community members, but to uh city staff.

And so I think all throughout this process, the district has wanted to follow our process, adhere to zoning, um, do a project, implement a project that that's consistent with the goals and strategies of the experienced downtown master plan.

Um, and I think that's why, largely why uh not entirely why, since there is a right-of-way vacation, but largely why uh they have gone through uh the various boards and commissions and are in front of you today.

Yeah, thank you.

And I think we've touched enough, done enough on the notification part, following all the standard processes that we need to do.

We're all frustrated, I think often with the lack of participation in the process.

Um a hundred responses from 300 people who live in that thousand-foot radius to which the postcards were sent.

You know, 30% of people answered, and half or even you know, 40%, 20% of those are in favor, still leaves a pretty small fraction who we're assuming might be opposed to this.

Um I uh I trust the process.

I trust that your department has done what it needs to do.

Likewise, when we ask for an expert opinion from the first responders about what is the impact on you doing your job to get somebody from the host from downtown to the hospital, I tend to trust that estimate as well.

Um, whether somebody actually wrote drove it or not, or whatever.

We have experts, we pay expert consultants.

Um I would rather take their word for it than try to guess and do the math in my head up here and and try to figure it out.

But uh I guess one, no, I think that's that's all I've got for you.

Thank you very much.

I appreciate your presentation and your time.

Councilman Williams.

Brian, I think you're off the hook, but I do have a question, but I'll get there in a second.

I also was born and raised in Colorado Springs, but I did not go to Palmer High School.

But my grandfather went to Palmer High School and he passed away when I was a little young.

So the world will never know if he graduated.

But my dad also went to Palmer High School back on his Colorado Springs High School.

And ironically, he refused to give a public speech.

So he never got his diploma.

But at least he passed on that ability to me.

So I appreciate that.

This city has been part of, or this school has been part of our history.

And nothing I say is gonna take away from that.

Um but we're not as bad as lawyers, but if you get several engineers in a room, you could definitely get several different opinions.

And one of the hats that I wore prior to this position was City Engineer Down and Fountain, where I had to make the same decisions that our traffic engineer and public works department are doing.

And again, we may not always agree, but I see Boulder is very crucial, especially with um Middlesex Run and bringing traffic into and out of downtown.

So I'm personally not in favor of vacating that right away, but I don't think that takes away the partnership that I feel with the high school.

I did have a question.

If the connectivity comes together, is it going to be a closed campus?

Or will it still be an open campus?

Thank you.

For the question, Councilmember Williams.

We are committed to a discussion with the city about how to maintain an open campus.

That's one of the conditions for approval, is how we can continue to think of ways to allow pedestrians and cyclists to access the campus when it's not a safety risk to students.

So we've had lots of productive conversations, and we're 100% committed to continuing that conversation with the city and putting that into the conditions of approval for the right of way.

So I think regardless of how this turns out today, we need to talk about those intersections because the students are still gonna be allowed to go out into the public, regardless of whether Boulder is or isn't vacated, and that seems to be a big issue in this particular part of town.

So thank you.

Councilman Rainey.

Thank you, Madam President.

And look like my colleagues got a lot of answers to a lot of the questions I already had.

Uh however, I do want to touch on a couple, and uh Todd, I'm gonna have to get you back up here for a second.

Um over the last, I'm assuming nine months now, uh, with the closure, um has there been any reports of uh emergency services having to circumvent and move around Boulder.

Uh and if so, what did that look like?

Because in every last package I've received, every last email I receive or phone call direct, that didn't come up once, and I find it hard to believe that we're hanging a hat on one email that happened in March of 2025.

So please, somebody help me understand that there had to be something else that has transpired, and you're telling me between 2025 and now no ambulance service has gone around that block.

Like I I need to understand something here.

Um Todd Frisbee City Traffic Engineering.

Um let's see.

I no, me personally, I have not received a complaint from AMR or our fire department that hey, Boulder was closed and I had to go around and it cost us some extra time.

Um whether uh me personally, public works has not received that that kind of complaint.

I can't speak toward the fire department or to the police department with regards to that.

Um it has been closed.

I will say it has been closed for roughly nine months.

Um and so emergency services at this point have should know that and have adapted and adjusted their routes accordingly.

I'm just speaking anecdotally uh on on that end, but no, not me personally.

I've not seen from emergency perspective um uh that complaint.

I will I will add from a traffic perspective, everyday traffic perspective.

Um and Lyle touched on this in his presentation.

Uh he had projected that certain impacts to intersections and and operations based on a closing of boulder.

Well, what I've noticed, both what I've seen in the counts that we collected after the closure and just you know, I drive in this area, I live in this area.

Um I have not seen much of an impact of that closure.

Traffic seems to be the same as it was before the closure.

Um and uh and so that's my opinion is you know as a driver and resident, but also as a city traffic engineer, I have not received complaints from residents or public about that closure and causing additional causing additional travel uh travel time.

Um helps.

If I if I may for a second, let me just speak to, you know, we've heard a lot about safety and traffic and things like that, right?

Um, you know, that's very important for us, traffic engineering is the safety of vehicles or residents, pedestrians.

Uh, and so if you remember, just you remember uh we put up left turn restrictions at Nevada and Platt Avenue.

Yeah, we cut off the east-west left turn.

Uh I just looked up, I just pulled the data.

That's you know, 18 months after that.

I pulled the data.

Since that 18 months, we've had zero left turn east-west crashes, and we've had zero rear end crashes at that intersection.

We've seen a 77% reduction in crashes.

So we've already made some steps to help improve safety at our intersections.

I'm also working with staff, my staff right now, um, to install school flashers, school zones on Nevada, Platte, and at Wasatch and on Weber in the next year or so.

So we'll be have school zones that would be operating during pickup and drop-off that could even be operated um uh uh during lunch times as well.

Uh and so you know, so trying to protect some of those intersections by slowing speeds during those during those peak hours and during that lunch hour.

So those are things that are already happening and work we're working toward.

Just wanted to put that on the record as a piece, another piece of information for for council to consider.

Thank you.

Yeah, I appreciate it.

I think I'm I'm done with you.

Uh uh superintendent or either the principal can answer this question.

Uh student drop-off has been mentioned several times.

Um in the new model, what ways are you thinking through or in envisioning trying to make it easier for parents to drop off their kids as not to impede traffic?

I think the actual uh what has struggled for us is not the closure of Boulder Street this year, but the closure of the lane on Weber Street, which is where our parents and buses used to drop off.

Uh, and so when the new building is complete uh and the construction is complete, we will go back to both bus drop-off and parent drop-off on Weber Street between same frame and uh Platt versus on Nevada between Platt and Boulder.

Okay.

So please go ahead.

Just one clarification.

Like we talked about a little bit about SEPTED, we're actually gonna separate the parent drop-off, and the parent drop-off will be on Weber, and the bus drop-off will actually be on Nevada.

We're gonna use both sides of the street.

Okay.

Um as part of that.

Okay.

Thank you.

Um I guess the the last thing I I'll leave with is uh now I've heard about this uh this tunnel.

Um I guess do we know if there's can the average citizen access that tunnel?

They they cannot access the tunnel.

It's only connection, school point to the other school point.

Okay, just want to make sure of that.

Um and lastly, uh we don't want students going under the road.

We don't want students going over the road, and we're concerned about students going through the road.

So until we become the Jetsons and figure out something else, uh safety-wise, yes, I do agree.

Uh we're gonna have to figure out and work collectively, and I do uh I really applaud this dialogue today.

This is probably one of the better dialogues I've actually seen with opposing sides, but I do think that we probably need to go back to the board and truly think about those intersections.

Uh whether whatever the vote is today, we definitely, as my colleague uh councilman uh uh council member Williams stated, that is something we're gonna have to go back and really readdress here.

Um but I do want to point out you have a 20-year security guard speaking on behalf of his staff, uh stating that there's a need for this.

Um you have the downtown partnership that stated that there's no impact to the corridor.

Uh and then of course uh other stakeholders who felt that they were adequately engaged.

Um now, granted, I do realize that we've had a couple of members that felt very strongly that there has not been adequate stakeholder engagement.

Um so I know there's been some some comments to refute that, but I do believe, you know, any time those comments come up, uh let's not just throw it to the wayside, you know, no matter what the vote is here, let's make sure that those engagements continue in some form or fashion.

Um, because once again, I just hate when we throw people's comments to the wayside if the vote passes, and then, oh, oh, yep, let's move on with life.