All right, welcome back.

We are here at our finance audit and budget committee here.

Uh chaired by myself, Commissioner Ted Terry and joined by Commissioner Shakira Johnson.

I think Commissioner Long Spears had to go.

Um she has an excused absence because we are past the usual time.

Um and let me just start off by just apologizing to everyone that has been waiting here.

Uh we did have a long meeting today, and um I generally do not like to do meetings past five because all of y'all have lives and families, and I don't want to keep you too late.

Um so I've already worked out a deal with Zach that at a future FAB meeting we're just gonna cancel it and y'all get get to go home early.

Okay.

Zach already approved it.

So we'll make sure staff that have to stay here a little extra will make it up for you somehow in the future.

Um but commissioners, we do have a uh committee member, we do have um several uh budget presentations and requests from district attorney, sheriff's office, tax commissioner's office, and public defender.

Um so we definitely want to get through those today.

Um we did um uh skip the item 1525 at the last several meetings.

So I wanted to start off the meeting with that item.

Um it is my item, so I'll um hand the gavel over to you.

And yes, we could do minutes first.

Yes, I'll open the floor for a motion on uh 0338, the meeting minutes from February 9th special call.

Move to approve.

I'll second, seeing no discussion.

All in favor?

Aye.

I motion carries.

All right, I'll hand the gavel over to Commissioner Johnson.

For 1525.

1525, please.

Excuse me.

Um item 2025-1525, all commission districts.

A resolution by the DeCab County Board of Commissioners establishing a DeCab County Water Customer Bill of Rights.

Commissioner Terry.

Yes, thank you.

Um, and I did um introduce a substitute this morning, and so there's a red line version that should be at your desk.

Uh where is it?

No, that's not it.

I've got too many papers, Commissioner.

Yeah, and I know mine's pulled a put away from this morning.

Oh man, I lost it.

Oh, here it is.

Ah, okay.

DO copy.

I don't know.

Go ahead.

Okay.

All right.

So I just want to um one um just reintroduce the the resolution um and with the red line versions, and so there are some changes there that I'd like to be considered.

Um I did um we did hear from some residents who would like to speak today.

So if it's okay, I'd like for them if there's any public comment from any individuals that would like to just share any thoughts on item 1525.

And you know, let's try to keep it for a few just a few minutes if you don't mind.

Yes, sir.

I ain't nobody did my first time.

I gotta press the book.

Oh, you're good and go for it.

Oh, my name is Michael Mullis, and I've been having water issues for the last two years, and I have no resolution.

They've been saying that I have water leaks, but I have not.

I had two people come from front of the county come out, and they said it was a water leak, but I had four other people come out and they couldn't find a leak.

And last year in May, they came and took the whole water meet out of my yard.

So right now I don't have no water, I can't see my kids, all my grandkids, so I'm staying by myself for the last two years.

Okay.

All right, thank you for sharing that.

Um is there anything else you'd like to share?

Yeah, talking about the immediate speech.

Oh, yeah, it was no notice, it just I seen when they were taking a meet out on my ring camera.

When was that?

That was in May, I think the week of May the 10th.

How long have you been disconnected?

Um dislocated since last year.

So since March of 2025.

Yes, March of 2025.

Okay, March 2025.

Okay.

What if they threatened?

All right.

Oh, they threatening well, me and the landlord got into a day time I press in charge of saying I was tampering with the water.

The only time I cut the water on from the street when I was trying to find a leak.

Other than that, I work out of town and I don't even be there.

Oh, I see.

So you're in a in a house that's you don't own the house, the landlord owes it.

Okay, interesting.

All right.

I know we were literally talking about that at the Capitol about um legislation I was trying to introduce.

Yeah, legislation.

Commissioner Johnson's been spearheading about um some way that we can fix water leaks if landlords won't fix it.

Um so I know that's something that is a policy issue that we're working on.

Um is there anyone else that would like to say anything?

Well, we can't find the leak when we had your water.

Two representatives from the county and two private contractors have to be.

Come to the mic if you don't mind.

Introduce yourself.

Hi, my name is Kat Maddox.

I'm with uh DeCab Water Watch.

So two representatives from the county and two private contractors have been unable to find a leak on Mr.

Mullins' property.

Uh this was before he was disconnected in March of 2025.

Uh and for that disconnection, he was given no notice, either written or um verbal.

Uh he only found out he was disconnected after his water wasn't working and he looked on his ring camera.

Um so that's one of the things that we hope is addressed in this customer bill of rights as well.

Okay.

Um but yeah, he's been disconnected since March of 2025.

Our advocates found out in September of last year, and no one has reached out to him to inform him of all of the programs that he qualifies for, uh, which include amnesty, the RAP program, and the DeCab Repairs Program, if there is in fact a leak that the county alleges.

Okay.

All right, great.

Thank you for sharing that.

Um and Commissioners, the the reason why I'm introducing this resolution for a Walter Customer Bill of Rights is really just in that vein of knowing your rights, knowing what is available, because we did pass the resolution last year that provided shut-off protections.

Um in August 2025, we have the amnesty resolution that was passed.

And so I think, you know, Zach, what we're trying to do here is one, make sure that we've established those protections, that there are outlets for individuals who, you know, we've heard from one today who um, you know, have had lots of different issues going on, and we we can't like talk about all the ones here.

Um, but knowing that people have a uh uh a recourse to seek additional help, assistance, um, advice, and I think that's what the the customer, the water customer advocate office is designed to do, as well as the water rate assistance program, the RAP program is to support people.

Um, but it does seem that some people still don't fully know all of their options.

Um so the goal here really is um if we do pass this resolution that this would just be something that would be easily shareable, whether that's in a water bill, um, a flyer, an email notice, a social media post where everyone understands if there's an issue with your water, here's what you can do.

Here are your rights.

And so um that's that's mainly why I'm introducing the resolution.

Um, and then you know, um uh Madam Chair, I am uh asking the administration to review the changes that I proposed um as well for their feedback.

So you're asking for a two-week deferral.

Um Zach, how much time do you need to over this?

There's another resident here who wants to share their story as well, or they want me to share their story on their behalf.

I don't know when you want me to do that.

Okay, yeah, I'll call them up in a second.

Yeah, and the matter of since we have time in the constitutionals, we have her the one resident and I we are at almost six o'clock.

Yeah, okay.

Right.

So this is a disabled resident who's come and really needs to speak.

Okay, all right.

Can I can you can you do it in two minutes?

I can do it in two minutes.

I wrote it for you.

Okay, go.

The following district three and six resident is present but has asked me to speak on her behalf.

She's disabled and as a recipient of permanent government assistance is lower income.

She reached out to advocates in 2024 for assistance disputing a debt originating from a billing dispute in 2016 that went unresolved.

When the moratorium was lifted on water disconnections in 2021, she was shocked to find out she was charged with an upwards of 10,000 debt.

At the time there was no fair and balance dispute process to speak of.

But she was among the select determined few who were accepted into a mediation process.

That process was supposed to include the following several members of DeCab's legal and finance department, a resident uh who was allowed the option of a legal representative to observe but not speak, a spokesperson who could not be legal counsel.

The paperwork for this required separate forms for each disputed bill, quite the task for legacy disputes, such as hers.

At the time, residents could only access up to two years of bill history online.

Fortunately, she had performed an open records request for the remainder of her bills, but even so the completion of the forms took us an entire afternoon.

In December of 2024, two months before the commission's affordability resolution was voted forward.

She and others who had waited years for their mediations were suddenly contacted by the county uh to schedule it in less than a week's time.

Inadequate notice for anyone to be sure, but especially this resident whose health requires her to spend two full days at Grady per week.

DeCab Waterwatch advocated for her to wait on the commission's vote for an improved dispute process, and she was allowed to cancel her mediation.

Eventually she was given permission by the CFO to participate in the customer advocate process, but never heard any follow-up until December of 2025.

At that time, she was contacted by a member of revenue collection by phone, proposing a reduction in her debt and a resulting payment plan rather than an investigation into her bill or to inform her about the upcoming amnesty program, likely to forgive her debt in its entirety.

The representative did not have an offer in writing.

To be exact, the finance department offered to apply a credit of $5,000 some odd dollars and an additional 887 late fee credit.

The difference is $3,800 some odd dollars.

However, the ridiculous six and a half year payment plan proposed adds up to over a thousand dollars more than this amount.

Additionally, this resident's debt is now uncollectible according to state law as it exceeds the four-year statute of limitations on utility collection.

And I want to say something clearly about the resident who spoke before.

This doesn't have anything to do with his landlord.

It is the watershed department who called him and say that they are arresting him for tampering.

His uh dispute with his landlord is separate.

So we need this to be resolved before next week for him because this shouldn't be occurring.

Okay.

All right, thank you for that.

Um Williams, you were gonna speak on how much time administration needs.

Yes.

Um if we could have 30 days to to go through it, maybe we'll give you the next update from the Urban League.

I think they've done an outstanding job.

Um and you know, all signs are pointing in the right direction in terms of what's been going on in water building.

But thank you.

And Madam Chair, just quick follow for um Mr.

CO Williams.

So um, you know, what I think we want to do in the the next 30 days and you know, we're once we get past the budget.

Right.

Um let's just try to dive into you know where the Urban League is at.

Um, you know, we need to understand are there difficult cases um and maybe the ones that we heard today are those cases that we haven't fully resolved.

But I think the goal here is to try to resolve these issues.

Some of them go back years um that you know for some of us weren't around for um or just different policies in place.

And so we're we're still trying to make up for some past issues.

Um and then just within that helping us understand where the the amnesty program exists.

And I I know the law department has been researching the state statute limitations, so we still just need to understand exactly what the policy is gonna be on uh debt that is in you know years in the in the in the assist.

Yep, understood.

And and another key point that I think you were making in this resolution is ensuring that uh customers are aware of the process for you know getting into the wrap and things like that.

So we'll make sure that you know we we bring all that information.

But I meet, you know, on a very regular basis, and I think you do also, Commissioner, with Urban League, and know what you know.

So I I think things are pointed in the in the right direction.

They're doing an outstanding job.

But you know, if there's opportunities to do more, um we can talk about that.

Okay.

Well, I mean uh and I think the the water customer bill of rights, hopefully everything that I put in there is something that we're already doing.

And if there's something if there's a wordsmithing, just let me know because we can you know wordsmith it, but I want to really make sure everyone knows.

Here's what we offer here your um your the rights and appeals and you know the disposition of you know your issue to someone that can help.

So they so they know.

Yep, we'll talk about you have a motion, Commissioner?

Yes, I'll move to defer this item for um 30 days.

Let me just actually give a date for your prior staff back and let's do it on March 24th, BOC.

Okay.

I will second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Aye.

That motion carries.

Um I will pass the devil back, so great.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Um let's just do this one quick agenda item for the solicitor general, item 0161, this change order number one to contract number 1365362, uh, lease agreement, office and parking space, two-year lease for use by the Office of Solicitor General.

The contract consists of leasing of office and parking spaces at property 160 Claremont Avenue, Decatur, Georgia, to facilitate the Solicitor General's daily operations and other essential county activities.

The request seeks to increase the contract term through February 29th, 2028, and funds.

This request also seeks to add additional leased office space awarded to Regis Management Group LLC, amount not to exceed 348,000.

And anyone from the solicitor's office here.

Okay.

All right.

Um I think I'm actually good with this.

Yeah, I mean I think it's it's their office space and okay.

So we'll um uh Jessica, if you don't mind, just reach out to the solicitor and they could um she could email us any additional context we might need uh for this.

I move to approve item ending in 0161.

I'll second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Aye.

Motion carries.

Okay.

Um Zach, are you okay if we go through the constitutionals that are here for the budget before we turn over to you, unless you wanted to wait.

Um I think we're gonna wait till the 18th, anyways.

Okay.

All right, I'm gonna this is in no particular order, so just blame the staff for putting it in this order.

Uh just kidding.

Um, so the first is district attorney, Sherry Boston.

Come on down.

You're the next concession.

Is it good evening now?

Yes.

Good evening now.

Thank you for being here.

Good evening.

Good evening.

Good evening.

Thank you so much.

Um, so I recognizing that the time is late and my fellow constitutional officers are here.

I will move through this pretty quickly.

Um you should have been provided in advanced documentation that outlines our requests.

Um if not, I do have extra copies if y'all need it.

Go ahead, if you don't mind.

Lou Sanchez has those.

Um, so I am here because some items that were included in our request.

Um, and I understand the position of the CEO and that we're entering a flat budget time.

Um, and that you know, money is tight.

However, I would be remiss if I didn't bring to you some of the specific areas that um we are asking that you consider uh funding in the FY uh 2026 budget.

So let me start off by saying in our initial request to the CEO's office, our initial budget, um, we did have an enhancement um that did include funding the need for 20 new positions.

Um what I have done is I have taken a hard look, understanding um the directive uh that we have, and I am bringing to you what I think is the most critical.

Um and so in our request today, we are looking at 13 positions.

Um a couple of these you will recognize because they are included in funding requests that I made last year and came to you during an emergency request, and a part of that agreement was you're gonna see these items in the next budget cycle.

Um, so it's not a surprise.

So let me just start um with the six items that I'm bringing to you to consider budget aid requests today.

The first is um a grant-funded human trafficking investigator.

Um, it is an investigator that's already on our staff, Casey Benton, um, who is carrying um the lion's share of work around human trafficking in DeCAB County.

Um, he is a resource to DKPD, the GBI, um, and uh really singular liaison for doing this work.

Um his position, we were able to fund with grant money.

That grant money is going to um expire uh in September, and so we do need this funding in order for him to continue working in our office and doing the great work.

Um I will also just note that his work and this project have been highlighted as a part of PERF, uh which is an organization that recognizes innovation in police and executive um prosecution.

Um, and so DeCAB was one of 12 projects nationwide that was highlighted, and that project was centered around the work that Casey is doing.

So that's the first thing.

Um the second is in our operations and special projects.

Again, this is not a new request.

You will have seen this before.

I came before you last year to ask for three positions.

Um, a legal office coordinator, a systems analyst, and also um an additional IT specialist in our office.

You gave us immediately the IT specialist, thank you so much.

He began working last month.

We are thrilled we now have two people to serve the over 300 employees in our office instead of just one.

Um, but we still need those two additional operations positions that are critical to our operations, and I brought that before you last year.

Next up is our digital forensics unit.

Again, this is the same request that we discussed.

You gave us um one position in the interim, but we still are in need of five additional analysts.

With DKPD and the DeCab Sheriff being our largest serving agencies.

Next up is a human resources position, just one.

That department is very small and very mighty, and we need another person.

I think right now we have approximately three people that work under our director when it comes to HR finance budgets and grants.

So it's just simply we need another person in order to complete the myriad of tasks that are associated, and especially as we're entering the pay in class study.

And so again, we just need more another person to actually do the work effectively.

Since I have been district attorney and since the life of the district attorney's office, there is only been one receptionist for our office.

So that's almost 40,000 public interactions right now being handled by one person.

So when she's at lunch, we have to rotate someone in.

So by increasing our grand jury team, we're going to be able to move cases faster because we can't start a case until we've either made an accusation or we have gotten an indictment through the grand jury.

Oh, here it is.

Uh is 1,262,942.

And that's for 13 positions.

That is all inclusive of any equipment, computers, or any other items needed for those particular job duties.

Okay, gotcha.

All right, thank you so much for that very enlightening presentation.

Um I learned some things today.

Um so thank you for sharing that, Madam DA.

Um, Commissioner Johnson, any questions, comments?

Just clarify, you definitely mentioned that it's inclusive all equipment needed, but it's also inclusive all benefits.

Yes.

Okay.

Thank you.

I yield.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

Um, just to kind of recount um, I think what I heard.

So, number one, the grant funded human trafficking position, um, the grant ends in September.

So you would in order to keep him on full time through this fiscal year, you're gonna need um October, November, December covered in the budget.

Essentially, um the funding.

Um, yes, you know, the federal fund, the federal grants end on September 30th.

So that's why it's starting October 1st.

So we will run out of funding before the end of the year.

Actually, no.

Oh, I'm sorry.

It's actually thank you.

I'm sorry, April 30th.

Oh, okay, gosh.

Okay, so that's why the phone is.

I've written that yes.

Okay, I was trying to like divide by three.

Okay, so okay, so this um, and you know, clearly this is a very important issue, and we don't want to make that person leave.

Because then what what would there are there any other human trafficking investigators?

In my office, no.

And I can also tell you that investigator Benton, who came from the DeCab County Police Department, um has been doing this work in DeCab County for a long time.

And right now, to my knowledge, there is no one in the DeCab County police department that is doing this work.

He is he is the direct contact from DKPD to um handle this work, and that includes um not only investigating um working on operations, but also the recovery um of traffic teenagers.

So he is the POC right now for this work in DeCAB.

Okay, gotcha.

Okay.

Um well, I'm gonna just personally say I think that's important.

So I would like to see that continued and funded.

Um I think you make a really compelling case for the grand jury, um, the senior ADAs and the legal secretary.

And so basically that you would just add more to the team that does the grand jury's, and you think that if we added this additional capacity, then not only are you addressing sort of the ones without bond, but you'll be able to go back to the ones that have been held.

The idea is to uh decrease the amount of time it takes from someone being arrested to having an actual charging document that allows us to move forward in court.

Okay, and you said that some were a few years old, like they had to have been charged.

At least I mean the statute of limitations on some felonies is four years, some are seven years, some obviously have none, right?

Um, but we are finding that for some of our non-violent cases or people that aren't in custody, it can take us years to get to that case because again, it's not like you stand in line and wait your turn.

It is your your number gets pushed back every time someone is arrested and is jailed, right?

Their case gets first priority.

Understood.

Okay.

All right.

I am concerned that there are cases that haven't we haven't gotten to um that could be years old.

And um, so I think that's also a very good one that we should consider.

Um the receptionist position, so definitely hear you about one person being the public interface for thousands of phone calls and visits every year.

Would you basically have them like two receptionists most like there at the same time, but staggered at different times?

And I will say when I was um solicitor, the solicitor's office has always had two people.

Um so the DA's office was always different, but I can tell you that um from a volume standpoint.

I never understood why it was created that way.

It is what it is, but when I was solicitor, we had two people at the front window to take phone calls and walk-ins because we have a lot of walk-ins.

That's the nature of our business.

People come to the courthouse, they have questions, they need to know where to go, what to do, what's going on with their cases.

Um this is the first time I've made this request because we've gotten to the point where we realize it's really untenable for us to continue to continue with one person being responsible for phone calls and walk-ins.

Um being responsible for phone calls and walk-ins.

Because at the very least, if you have two people, if someone is dealing with a walk-in, there's still someone that can pick up the phone.

Right now, that's not the case.

The phone either has to ring or you have to tell somebody, well, hold on a second, let me grab the phone.

Okay.

And then if you got called back, and okay.

Yeah, that's um No, there's really no calling back.

We put people on hold, right?

It's this is not like a callback operation.

We put them on, we place them on hold, yeah, and they have to just wait.

And that's just not acceptable.

Yeah, no, I understand.

Because if they're if they're calling you, they're probably need something very important.

Um let me just say, I'll note that most of our calls, our receptionists, it's not like someone's calling and they know who they want to speak to, right?

It's not like they're calling, can I speak to Michelle Commissioner Terry?

They're calling and they're saying, I don't know what's going on.

You know, you have to give your name, your date of birth.

Oh, do you have a case number?

No.

So, like the receptionist is looking up all the information to find to whom they can push that call off to, or the person that can be helpful.

Most people don't have that information when they call.

So the time that it takes to spend with each individual person to determine, even if we're the office, because oftentimes we are sending people down to the solicitor's office, like, nope, we don't have your case.

You're good, you gotta go downstairs or back up.

So it is time consuming.

Okay.

Um on the HR position, the administrative assistant, I would like to, and maybe we could just get some more information from Zach or HR, just how our HR department supports your office, and you know, are there any and Zach just walked in?

So let's if we could get some more information um from you on how you interface from your HR position with our HR department.

Well, we uh what I can tell you is we we like every other department have an HR specialist, right?

That's assigned to us, and that person is assigned to many departments, but our department is responsible for completing all of the documentation, whether it's a PA1, a PA2, all the documentation for each individual employer, you're responsible for doing.

I will remind you that we have over 300 employees in our office.

So whether it's FMLA, whether it's someone taking elder leave, whether it's someone taking paternity or maternity leave, terminations, resignations, hiring, sick leave, you name it.

And that's just the county side.

We also do the same with state HR and have all of that to deal with as well.

Okay, and then how many HR positions are assigned to you now?

Or how many people from HR are assigned to you?

We have currently three people in our department.

Gotcha.

Okay.

All right.

Um Zach, I'd love to get more information from you and HR about sort of how the how it's working and if it's a good thing.

And I'll and let me just say our our three are not just doing HR work.

They also do all the work for finance.

So they work also with budget to do all the things budget.

They also do all of our, remember, all of our bill paying and invoicing for witnesses, victims, travel, also handled by that department.

So the department is HR, finance, budget, and grants.

So those four major buckets.

That's what we call it.

They are responsible for all four of those buckets for our entire office.

So that includes employee stuff, but it also includes witness travel, expert witnesses, all of that.

So they are doing all of that work, and we need another person to get it done.

Okay.

Okay.

All right.

Um, thank you for sharing that.

Um, and I think that the last well, the last two, so the data analyst, so this is the uh forensics unit.

Yes.

And so that one is almost half of your requests, and so it's for five positions.

Yes.

We gave you one additional, right?

You said one tired.

Yes.

And I will note when you look at that request, digital forensics, um, some of that is also because to do this work, it requires um certifications and to work on the different various um the use of the certain uh programs that we use, celebrate and other of those things.

Those are really those licenses are very expensive.

And that's one of the reasons you're gonna see because if you look at the people, and this is the largest part of our request.

If you look at the equipment, um there is a significant amount of a of software and training that goes with this.

Um, in fact, um the enhancement outside of the people is 232,000.

So just to give you concept, people is about half of it.

The equipment that we have to use to do this work is is also fairly expensive.

Gotcha.

Okay.

And do you go to through our IT department to get all of that software and equipment, or just have your own.

Oh no, yeah.

This is investigative equipment.

Um we do not go through IT.

This has to be purchased.

This is like law enforcement specialized equipment.

When I say equipment, I mean this is what we're using to break into cell phones and devices, um, to download in digital, yeah.

So um it's the same equipment that the police department when they are utilizing or any other lab is utilizing.

We have to buy these products from these companies directly.

Okay, gotcha.

And then how long does it take for someone to would you hire someone that already is trained, or would you hire someone and then train them?

Well, we we could hire someone that's trained and we do that, but all of these companies require certification every year.

Every person in my office has to be re-certified on the equipment to maintain their certification to use the equipment every year.

So it's it is an ongoing cost that we that all the people that work in our office have to continue to get the training.

They can't touch the equipment if they're not um up to date on their certifications.

Okay.

Okay, great.

Thank you for sharing that.

Um, and then just remind me again the operations, so legal office coordinator and systems analyst.

What was that one again?

Yes.

So you gave us the um IT specialist, but essentially um remember uh that our operations unit really is like the nucleus in the heart and the center of everything that we do.

Um, and they are responsible for really being like what I call the train conductors of our entire operation.

Everything from data support to technology to facilities to everything else.

It is our organizational structure.

Um, and so um right now we need um one legal office coordinator because right now we don't have we have uh a legal officer coordinator that is in charge of our 10 trial assistants, but right now we don't have one that is um can be over the trial assistance in our specialized units, and we have 25 specialized units.

So it's about making sure that we have consistency amongst um our our paralegals and our trial assistant teams, um, and we've got to have that supervision.

Again, we've grown so much over the last few years that our infrastructure has just gotten bigger.

And then our senior analyst um is really again our increasing um need to use digital tools.

Um everything is being digitized, we're using more digital e fit interfaces.

We have to coordinate with IT, we have to coordinate with outside vendors, we have to coordinate with all of our stakeholder partners.

Um, and so again, having someone who is working on the global for our office isn't really important, and we don't have that now.

Okay, understood.

Okay, and the last question just to clarify.

So you said you had 668 cases more last year than the previous year.

Was that the right number?

What was that stat?

It was well, it was 668, but I don't want you to just think cases because that's just one part of our office.

Okay.

668 more cases were indicted and accused last year.

That doesn't account for the number of cases that come in our office because this doesn't account for what goes to diversion, accountability courts, cases that are dismissed, cases that are handled outside the criminal justice system, our civil division, our open records division, our child support.

This is just one little number in regards to how we indict or accuse cases.

Okay.

Um, but it it does seem that your office has grown because the demand is there.

100%.

We are not getting less cases.

We are getting more cases to review because remember, we are required, um, and that's part of the lawsuit that I have against the state of Georgia right now, um, in regards to the prosecuting attorney's qualification commission, we are required to review everything that comes into our office.

Right.

So um, and remember, we get case, we get a lot of cases based on arrest, but we also get a lot of cases that we call investigative files.

Agencies, um, other um federal, local or state law and partners can send a referral that it's not started by an arrest.

Um what you're seeing in grand jury are generally things that are initiated because someone has arrested someone.

Um but that's not all inclusive of the work we get, including officer involved shootings or any other um uh excessive force cases, those don't come in this way.

That's again other work that we're getting in through what we call INV.

So that number is huge for us because seeing an increase, that much of an increase in grand jury cases, um, you know, that's a sign to me.

So okay.

And then last question.

So because we were talking with the judges, I think next week as well.

So um when it comes to just the calendar and sort of how all of that works day in and day out, um, by increasing your capacity, at least for the grand jury, you think they'll be there's plenty of slots basically.

So we'll add more grand jury uh capacity and they'll fill them because they're available, because when you c when you ask the I guess in panel the grand jury, then it'll get done.

So here's what I'm gonna say.

Um grand jury meets twice a week um every week of the year, and that's twice a week all day.

Um and you've probably seen in the grand jury reports that the grand jury doesn't love that so much, right?

Um, but we also don't want to have to bring in the grand jury for a third time.

We could do that, or we could do it four days a week.

But we recognize taking people away from their jobs and keep in mind people that are selected for the grand jury, you serve for two months.

So we're already asking people to serve two full days out of the week um for eight weeks.

Um while I we are not going to add slots at this time because we think that that would be burdensome for the citizens of DeCab County.

Um but if we could make sure that we are moving as many cases as possible, right?

And it's an intricate system of how you do it.

Um, but the idea would be we would just try to do more cases in the days that we have, if that makes sense.

Okay.

Rather than adding on more days, because again, we recognize that it's a burden.

And keep in mind that people are only being paid the statute, it is while de cab is paying the statutory maximum, yeah.

That's still only a hundred dollars a day.

Right.

And we can't we cannot we are the law does not allow us just to make a decab rule, it's statutory.

Yeah, uh, and we can pay up to the maximum what you are already doing, but you know that we get complaints from people because um not all jobs will pay when you're not there.

Yes, understand.

Okay.

Okay, great.

All right.

Well, thank you, Madam DA, for all of this information.

Um we have two more VAB meetings, so we'll have we'll continue our deliberations and speak with Zach and TJ as well.

Um, but any additional information that you think is important for the committee or the commissioners to know about any of the positions, the need, um, any of the efficiencies that you think by investing in these operations will yield, that would be really helpful.

Well, I stand on the documents I've given you.

I've given you a lot of information in those packets for each position, hopefully answering um most of your questions.

If you have more, I'm happy to provide.

But right now I'm just providing you with that.

Um not sure, just interested in the timeline.

I know that this right now the budget is scheduled to be on the February 26th.

Yes, that's right.

Um commission meeting.

So um just looking for guidance as to anything else that you need from me in regards to increasing our request in the final version of the budget.

Um I mean, I think if we could just um dialogue with the committee members and Commissioner Long Spears isn't here, so I might suggest reaching out to her and giving her a briefing on any the questions she might have, because I want the committee members to be at the speed, it's just because we were late today, so um she had to leave.

But um, you know, we're gonna have two more committee meetings, and the the final one will be the day before the 26th, which that will be our final uh recommendation to the BS on the 25th.

Yep.

So it's kind of the last that'll be the last opportunity for any amendments from the committee level.

Okay.

So would you recommend that we be present on the 25th?

Okay.

Oh, yeah, absolutely, please.

All right, I will put it on my calendar then, and I will stay in communication with my favorite COO.

Yeah, mine too.

Well, I know it's because he says I'm his favorite DA.

So you you make it make sense.

Thank you.

All right.

Thank you so much.

Appreciate you.

Thanks.

All right.

Um and committee members, I'm going to have two short, maybe quicker presentations from tax commissioner's office and public defenders.

So let's call in our other commissioner.

Um Commissioner Golden.

Our newest commissioner.

Welcome.

This is the first time I have the first time you've been here as our new commissioner.

Yes.

Congratulations.

Congratulations.

Welcome.

I'll try I'll try to be brief.

Um and I I have not um I didn't bring out my printouts, but I'll be happy to email that to you at later.

I think it'll be kind of straightforward.

Um, so what I'm asking for, we had uh it's it's related to positions as well.

I asked for three new positions.

Um and I'm not asking for those anymore.

I'm actually gonna hold off on those.

But we did have some vacant positions that were um on hold that I would ask be funded.

Um unfortunately we almost always carry vacancies that we have to that we try to fill throughout the year.

Um it probably has a lot to do with the fact that our pay is is probably one of the lowest in the counties, believe it or not, and so it's something that I will be working on.

Um and it's especially considering how much information my staff has to know and learn.

They have to learn a great deal of motor vehicle laws, property tax laws, all the things.

Um, but the the pay is pretty low.

Um, and so uh because of that I lose people to other departments all the time.

Um and to other other places outside of the county, but but even within the county.

So um I I carry vacancies, we try to fill them as much as we as quickly as we can, but you know, as soon as I fill one, I usually have another one.

So all I'm asking at this point um is that the vacancies that I have on the books be funded so that I can fill them.

Okay.

Um and one of the things too that we're uh we're trying to take on, and this was something you asked for, uh, we were we were considering it um I think before you mentioned it, but we went once you brought it up last year, we we wanted to go full force.

We had a pilot program where we um have um I have staff at the senior center at Lew Walker.

Yes.

Um, and then we that was that's been highly successful.

We're there all day, every Tuesday because the demand is absolutely there.

And we take we process motor vehicle transactions as well as property tax, we take exemption um applications, okay, and we take even property tax payments.

We do not take cash, but we take every other form of payment.

And so we then expanded that to the central DeCab Senior Center.

Okay.

That has gone very well.

And so the goal was to expand it to all of the senior centers.

Um, but I can't do that if I don't have the staff to do it.

And it doesn't require a lot of staff.

I'm not asking for additional staff, just the positions that are vacant be funded so that I can carry out that plan.

Um and then also we um had talked about, thought about, would love to um expand into Stone Crest.

We do not have a presence there at all.

Um so if you're a resident of Stone Crest, which is our largest city um per parcel, um, or Lithonia, you have to come all the way to South Ducat Mall or to Memorial Drive to get services.

And so we would like to go uh in that direction and provide services there, and that was the reason I was asking for the additional staff.

Um but at this point, we'll take um the funding of our vacant positions so that we can and and see what we can do as far as expanding in that direction.

Um the only other thing I would ask for is we have some positions that I wanted to reclassify.

Um actually this was submitted last year, so this this these are positions Urban wanted to reclassify, but I agree.

Um I have three IT folks in my office um who are not classified as IT um, they're not classified in the IT range at all, but that's all that they do, and that's all they've ever done.

We um and I'm not saying everybody doesn't, but overwhelmingly, the tax commissioner relies on technology to operate.

If any of our software is down, we cannot collect taxes at all.

Um we have to wait for the system to we we can't do manual receipts, we're not allowed to, especially on the motor vehicle side, where we are a um agent for the state for the department of revenue.

So if someone comes in on the motor vehicle side, our software isn't up, something isn't working, we're not allowed to perform a transaction.

Um sorry about that.

Thought the ringer was off.

We're not allowed to perform a transaction on behalf of the state without our software working.

So it's highly, highly important that our software works and it's why we keep um so much IT uh staff on board.

But they're not classified as IT.

And so their pay is limited as a result.

I'm also limited as to who I can hire because of course folks with the proper training and such want us uh expect a certain salary.

So um part of my request or our request last year was to reclassify those positions so that we could bring in people and hire folks that are qualified.

Okay.

Okay, so with all that said, the grand amount, so the reclassifications um were $37,620 and 20 cents.

So I don't think um not too too much.

Um and oh, I also needed to classify reclassify one of my my pay up my payroll personnel because she too is not in the correct position.

But um that amount throughout seven thousand six hundred and twenty dollars and twenty cents.

Um and then to fund the vake the non vacant positions that were recommended to not be funded, that total was four hundred eight thousand two hundred eighty-six dollars and twenty cents.

Okay.

So grand total for both uh b for both asks is four hundred forty-five dollars nine hundred.

I'm sorry, four hundred and forty-five thousand nine hundred six dollars and forty cents.

So that is my request at this time.

Okay, great.

Thank you, Commissioner Golden.

Uh Commissioner Johnson.

Any questions, comments?

No, I think that was gonna be my question was the overall impact, and then you said you're gonna you can email those to us as well.

Okay, that seems like those seem like very reasonable asks, so hopefully we can get those considered and added as well.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Great, thank you.

Um, and um Commissioner Golden, so we'll um uh we'll talk we'll so send us all the documentation.

Um, you know, I I do like the idea of your teams going to other locations in the county.

That's something I've seen residents are really big fans of because one, it's just more direct services, but also just the I'm I'm convinced that a lot of seniors are not maximizing their exemptions.

And I think every time that we've done something or we partnered on something, there's always people that show up and say, I didn't realize and we could be saving them thousands of dollars.

And so um I am sensitive to the fact of access to these type of services like at Blue Walker really make a big difference.

So I really want to support that.

Um I think that was that in the reclassification, or that was a the vacancies, the nine vacancies.

Those were the vacancies, yes.

Okay, so the nine vacancies will cover all of that, or would it just be would it be some of that and then there'll be some other ones in the office?

Oh no, that it it would cover it.

Um I have so I guess the other thing is I have certain staff that I send to those.

Uh so my most experienced staff is who I send to the senior centers.

Okay.

Um who have experience working with um with who are just extremely familiar with all the exemptions.

And so when folks come in and they apply, um they qualify them for any and everything that's available.

Um but they also have to be trained to handle motor vehicle and property tax because the way it is now, uh for the most part, those tasks are those trainings are bifurcated.

So if you you know motor vehicle, you're a pro at motor vehicle, but you don't do property tax.

So I have folks that have that are cross-trained to do both.

They have 10, 15, 20 years of experience, so I like to send those folks.

Okay.

Um, so they wouldn't be at the kiosk, they would have to have those vacancies filled.

Correct.

They're not at the window.

They're they they go out in the field.

And also if we have, you know, we go to homeowners association meetings, we go all over the county.

Um anybody that asks us to come, we go, whether it be on the weekends or after hours, we're we're there.

We're there.

And so I have to have enough people when we have multiple um requests.

Um and so I just when I when I send those people out, I still need people in the office working, I guess is is what I'm saying.

So if I can fill the vacancies, if I can have people at the window, then I can have more my experienced people out and about doing the um the outreach.

Okay, gotcha.

Um and just the last thought on the reclassification.

So um I mean you're a constitutional officer, so uh I mean, I guess I was really just I mean, kind of expecting you just to say, here's the people in positions that we need.

Um, so I I mean, Zach, I think we just need to work that out because if someone's doing IT work and they're not an IT person.

I mean, I'm always thinking about people that just, you know, like whether they're in their early part of their career and they're doing work for us, but they don't get credit for being what they're doing, and then that they go to another job, someone says, well, you didn't actually you didn't actually do the job.

So I'm just I am very sensitive to classification being accurate.

And what I get um is um well that that job description is not for your department.

That's for another department.

That's what I get all the time.

Oh when I ask to reclass people in positions that align better with um uh that align more with their their title, right?

Or what what they're actually doing.

Okay.

Um and I don't you know I don't even know if that's necessarily a budget thing.

Um if I I don't I don't remember if it's HR, if it's which department, but I do get the yeah, it's HR, who will do who will deny my reclass of a position.

Ah, interesting.

Okay.

And then the IT folks, um, are they uh your internal IT or they work with internal with our department.

They work with I county IT all the time, but they are my employees.

Gotcha.

So if there's an emergency that happens within my office and our equipment or software uh goes down, they are on site immediately, whether at any of my three locations fixing whatever the issue is.

Okay.

Are there any, and I think a few other constitutionals might have like their own sort of internal IT.

Um I'm just curious, are there is there any issues with you know our our IT department having sort of the pool and the capacity at a certain level that can support the constitutionals as well as the other departments?

So I'll say this.

IT is great.

Working with them is great, but they they have to manage so many different departments um that if I reach out, sometimes I have to wait for the issue to be resolved when, as I mentioned, it's work stoppage.

So if I have my my software go down, I have to put in a ticket and wait for a response to get that software back up and running.

And if there's a priorities elsewhere, which is understandable, they have to answer those.

Well, I can't wait.

You know, I have folks in my lobby um who are trying to pay their taxes and we want them to pay their taxes and we want to collect their taxes.

And so I can call, I can simply call my IT guy or someone on my line can call, you know, the IT guy that's sitting, you know, uh a hall behind them, and he can come in and fix it immediately.

And so it's it's you know, we work well with county IT.

I think they do a great job to support us, but when I need on the spot a response, you know, I gotta have it.

Okay.

Okay.

All right, let's just let's continue that conversation.

Um because I I don't know.

I would like to think that if we had a county IT department that had capacity to respond to emergencies or to seasonal things that just required that there might be a way for us to be more efficient or um or just be supportive, um honestly.

Um and you know, maybe when there's if they're gonna sit in my office, I'd be happy with that.

I understand you want someone on site.

That would be to me, that would be the fear.

I know when we visited your office last year when it was still Commissioner Johnson.

Um, but he he was also talking about the need of having IT, having your own dedicated IT.

Right.

Um because I would think the fear would be if you're selecting from a pool, yes, you might have someone who can service you, but like you were stating there may be an uh another issue somewhere else.

Um and there are I think um the DA also mentioned she had IT as well.

Yeah, I understand.

Okay.

All right, thank you, Commissioner Golden.

I look forward to seeing you on the February 28th.

I'll be there.

Thank you.

Oh yes, uh, going to the She is my guest speaker at our community connections.

Nice, all right, very cool.

Um rescheduled community connections.

Yes, for the because of the storm.

Yes.

Yes.

Um all right, and um our public defender is here.

Come on now.

Good evening.

It is getting late.

Good to see you in person.

We were you're on the Zoom last Monday.

Yes.

Thanks for being here.

Ms.

Is it Deland?

Deland.

Deland.

All right.

Thank you for uh allowing me to speak today.

Um our office does not have a designated IT person.

We rely on the county IT.

And I'm not asking for one.

So I am, however, asking for some additional positions, and I echo DA Boston's um understanding of the flat budget um hopes.

Um the requ the requests that I have, I think are necessary.

They are not an opportunity to try and grow government or grow anything, it is trying to keep up with the demand.

And as DA Boston explained, their case numbers have gone up likewise, so have ours.

Our office handles approximately 80% of the criminal cases that come into DeCab County.

And we handle everything from ordinance violations, you know, your dog bit somebody or was off leash and your grass is too high.

We represent those people if they qualify for our services all the way up to homicide.

So we cover pretty much every court in DeCab County.

We are seeing case loads of for some of my state court attorneys, more than 500 cases that they are handling.

The battery probably died because it's been a long day.

See if that one is working.

They're bringing you one, ma'am.

Well, you know, it's a long meeting.

The mics are dying.

All right, so last one.

Okay, that's better.

Can you hear me?

Better now?

Yes, I think so.

Okay.

Yeah, try it again.

Okay.

Um I have some attorneys who have caseloads of over 500 cases.

Um, and that's our state court attorneys.

Our felony attorneys have anywhere from 100 cases to over 300 cases, and that just varies depending on the courtroom that they're assigned to.

And um, you know, when a judge retires or leaves the bench, sometimes it backs up, and it's hard to work through those cases.

But those attorneys are struggling to keep up with the demand.

Uh we take every case that qualifies for us.

We don't get to turn cases away.

Um, and so our attorneys are I've had three people resign in the last week.

Um, two are leaving for more money, and because they're they can make more money with less stress.

Um, one is leaving because the job stress was so bad she was suffering some major anxiety and mental health problems that caused her to have to leave and go seek employment in a less stressful um environment.

Um that's just the last three.

So I I see that um across the board.

I think in the last two years, we've had approximately 40 percent turnover rate, which is really high for our office traditionally.

And what's your total capacity of attorneys?

We have uh um 73 attorneys.

Um, three of them, three or four of them are state paid, um, but the rest are county attorney attorneys.

Okay, and the 73 that you're funded for.

Yes.

Okay, yes.

And then what's how many do you have?

Um, how many vacancies do you have now?

We have well, we will have three vacancies.

Okay.

Um, I've extended offers to for two of them.

The other one just told me the other day, so haven't had chance to address that one yet.

Okay.

Um keep people because this work is hard.

Um, and I know that's not just my office, it's across the board with public defenders' offices and even prosecutors' offices.

Um, case complexity, the digital discovery, as again, Madame DA talked about the digital discovery is getting bigger and bigger.

So, body cam footage, um, all the jail phone calls, all of this uh surveillance cameras that homeowners and business owners have.

We get that in a case and we have to look at it all, even if there's five minutes that actually pertain to the case.

We don't know that until we've watched it all.

Um, and that takes hours and hours and hours to go through.

Um, and as you know, Madam CEO recently launched the digital shield dedicating approximately 18-19 million dollars to additional um basically digital footage, and every time one of those um drones or other things causes an arrest, that's something we're probably going to have to deal with.

I have to analyze it and obtain it.

Um I had asked in our budget request and in my memo for a total of nine attorney positions, one paralegal position, one investigator, two mitigation, or sorry, one mitigation specialist, and two client advocates.

Um the client advocates are two positions that we have had grant funded for the past almost two years.

That grant runs out in May.

Um, those two advocates have been extremely helpful, and I did um provide some materials in my memo that talks about the client advocates and the services they have provided, helping our clients find housing, helping them get housing vouchers, find permanent housing, set up bank accounts, finding them other resources, making sure they're able to comply with court orders so that they don't end up back in our jail.

So they have been extremely instrumental in doing that and helping serve our community in helping to reduce recidivism.

There is a new relatively new law, House Bill 582, also known as the Georgia Survivor Justice Act, that requires us now to do mitigation reports and do a deeper dive into the backgrounds of our clients so that we can file motions to comply with this act.

And again, that's that's required by law, which is going to require additional time and resources from our office to comply with the law.

I understand that this is a big ask.

And so I also understand maybe the need for a staggered approach.

As as Madame DA indicated, she has a number of specialty units, her units for homicide unit and gang unit, they have approximately one per court per courtroom of ten divisions.

They have crimes again involving children unit and they staff pretty much one attorney per courtroom.

They have sex um sex crimes unit, they staff approximately one attorney per unit.

I have five attorneys that handle all of those cases to their approximately 30.

Um so when we don't have the staff, the cases are still piling up, people are still sitting in jail to the tune of I think it's about 121 dollars a day to hold somebody in custody.

And so if we aren't able to process and work on these cases in a timely fashion, it's costing money on the back end.

Um so I I recognize the the cost up front, but it's taking money from down the road, it's not punting it to other parts of the county resources if we are given these funds.

Okay.

But I will get those numbers and provide them, and I am available on the 18th or the 25th to come back if you have further questions or need be for any further.

So for the great yes, go ahead, Commissioner.

Um attorneys for the baseline original request, it looks like it was 960,000.

So essentially what you're saying, you're cutting that request in half.

Yes.

Essentially, okay.

Okay.

Yes, great question, Commissioner.

Um, and then um HP 5852.

When did when did that pass?

Uh that was I think it was July of 2025.

Oh, so this is into effect.

Okay, so this is a new law.

Yes.

So you're already having to unfunded mandatory.

Right.

Well, I know.

Did we I didn't see any extra money from the state that was doing that to us?

Yeah, crazy.

Okay.

Well, um I would like to s some I don't know if it's possible, just uh a little bit more background on the Georgia Survivor Justice Act.

Sure.

Um I did not know that bill passed, but I mean it looks great.

I mean it sounds great.

Um but obviously you have to comply with the law.

And so I think so.

The concern that you're pointing out is that if you don't have the client advocates, if you don't have a mitigation specialist, what that's an important part of the new law, and then you want an additional attorney just to work on those motions.

Correct.

Um concern that basically there would be a lot of um individuals who would not get those um protections, I guess.

Correct.

We would be asking for continuances so we have time to do it, or they're not done properly or completely, in which case we're facing ineffective claims and possibly retrials.

Okay, gotcha.

Um I've got kind of an awkward question to ask about the salaries.

So do you think it seems I think from your memo that um that your office is a good entry level for I guess new attorneys?

It is.

So you see a lot of new so people are willing to take a lower salary, maybe comparatively, but they're not gonna stay.

Correct.

And that's what we're seeing at the around the three-year mark, um, between three and five years, they have gotten their experience and they're gonna go take that experience and make more money.

Okay.

And is are the is there any equation in your mind where you have additional salary kind of step ups for the existing attorneys so that they stay longer and therefore there's not that attrition rate.

Is there any savings?

Is it does it make more sense to hire more at the lower rate or to have hire a few more and then have a couple more steps up the ladder so that so the attrition is lower?

Um that's a good question, and I thought about that as I was driving over here today.

Um and I don't know the answer to that.

Um I I think both are probably true.

I just don't know which is more important because I don't know that the step up would be enough to match what they can go into private practice and make.

Got that.

For less stress.

Okay.

It had to be a lot more.

Yeah.

Okay.

Um then so appreciate all the the data on the 32 attorneys in the specialty units, the eight attorneys, and then the open cases, 300 per attorney.

Um you do believe that if there were more attorneys or just more capacity, some of these defendants, I guess, would just get to court quicker, and so therefore the disposition might be that they bond out or you know, get their trial and you know from there.

Okay.

Whatever it is, they they are their disposition can be made more quickly.

And and you know, if they if the DA's office is going to be indicting cases more quickly, which I love and I would love to see that, um it doesn't do any good if we don't have the capacity to work on those cases.

Give them more capacity for grand juries, you have to be there potentially for some of them.

Right.

We yeah, we we all won't be at grand jury, but we've got to handle those events.

Oh, just we gotta handle them at that when they go through that.

Okay.

Right.

Ooh, okay.

All right.

That's very good information.

Um other questions, comments, commissioner?

No, I'm gonna take it.

Okay.

And you I forget, did you email us this or you're going to email us?

I did, and I um provided some packets, but I have additional packets.

I was just trying to remember.

Would you mind um sending a revised proposal with just what you just said?

Sure.

Um and then the um and the requested budget amount.

Um and then, you know, I know I think TJ always asked this question, but so I'll just ask it um, you know, the budget start that's new budget would be March 1st, so obviously there's like some time before hiring and everything, but are all those costs annualized, annualized, or are they the 10 months?

So um they would be moving forward annualized, but for for this year it would be 10 months.

Okay.

I think it would be helpful for us to understand the annual cost.

Okay.

Um, because if there are new positions created, that obviously would, you know, in theory be a a full year next year.

Right.

Um but for our purposes, I think we're budgeting for March 1st and all and onward.

Okay, got it.

So I will provide um a revival revised proposal with the numbers, both annual cost and fiscal year of 26.

Okay.

Um for the 10 months and then more information on their Survivor Justice Act.

Okay.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you again.

Thank you.

Public defender.

Thank you.

Um Zach, just real quick, um, so you know, um, I know that we have other constitutionals to talk through.

Um do you want to meet with the folks that have presented and work in work out some of the finer details?

There's some things that I don't I don't have I I don't really have the agency to like respond to, but you know, I I I do want to just like express the concern that I have that if if we have any bottlenecks in the justice system, one that's something we should avoid, and I'm you know just morally you know concerned about it.

Um but then I think we keep hearing a sort of a theme of more individuals are at the jail, they're there for longer, and that's costing us on on one end, and of course we haven't heard from the sheriff yet, but you know, we know there's more more there.

So um I am kind of interested to see if there's and maybe there's an opportunity for the the court constitutionals to kind of look at this as a package of here's what we can do to improve efficiency outcomes and justice, um and so we see how can I see how they all fit together.

Right.

But of course, everyone came to just present on their piece of the the larger picture.

So um Mr.

Chair, and as you recall, I think we think you hosted actually a meeting in the last two, three weeks with the magistrate court, state court, uh solicitor and others.

Um and all of the the justice partners really do work as a system.

So as you increase in one area, um it has the tendency, you know, to produce more work, and then another area is going to be affected.

So if the DA has more staff, then the public defender is going to need more staff, and if they both have more, then potentially we need you know the judiciary, the judges to have more.

So I mean we'd be happy to sit and talk with them.

But ultimately, what we would love to see is them to come together as a system, and they've done it before, um, and say here's what we need collectively.

Yeah.

Um and then there's always the matter of space and and so forth.

But I think just staffing, they need to, um, and we can work with them to see how they can hire staff that complements um one another.

That makes sense.

Okay.

Yeah, I'm open to ideas.

Um I want to be sensitive to the CEO's goals.

Um, you know, but acknowledging that we, you know, did hear a presentation this morning about additional revenues.

So um whether we're talking about new revenues coming in or cost savings or other efficiencies, um, let's let's try to make it work.

Absolutely.

Okay, great, thank you.

All right, Commissioner, I think that's it.

So I'll take a anything else, I'll take a motion for adjournment.

Motion to adjourn.

All right, I'll second.

All in favor.

Aye.

Aye.

All right.

Thank you all very much for staying with us.