Please call the role.

Council member Fred Ruha third.

Council member Comey Young the second.

Here.

Council Member Gabriela Santiago Romero.

Present.

Mr.

Chair, you have a corn president.

Excellent.

Um the chairman is on his way.

But he's running a little bit behind.

Is there a motion to approve the minutes?

Okay, motion made.

Negative chair, Marcy.

We'll now go directly into public comments.

Mr.

Payne, how many people do we have in the queue for public comment?

Good afternoon, Mr.

Chair and honorable committee member.

We now have seven hands raised.

All right.

Public comments now closed.

Public comment is now closed.

Public comment is now closed.

All right.

Let's get started.

Who's first?

Mr.

Chair, our first caller is Owner Papa.

All right.

Two minutes, floor is yours.

Okay.

Going once.

Going twice.

Three times and a third.

All right.

Thank you for your time.

Uh you can send your responses in writing.

Who here next?

Ms.

Payne.

Our next caller is William M.

Davies.

All right, Ms.

Davis, floor is yours.

Two minutes, sir.

Good afternoon.

Can I be heard?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

Looking at your agenda, item 6.2.

I I think that if the city, they wouldn't have to put set aside so much for risk management if the city actually enforced people actually filing procedures and policies.

And we should not be identifying and paying for people who violate our rules and policies.

Looking at 6.3.

I was just wondering, I know that's an additional two million dollars they asked them for, going up to 57 million dollars, which is a lot of money.

Do you know if a majority of that money is going to be spent in Detroit since it's all Detroit money?

Um also relates to uh 6.4.

Uh to me, it seems like that's like uh you shouldn't have to ask for our same budget allotment of what's being spent and will not be spent and why.

Um that's almost like one of those uh uh Donald Trump type moves where you know Congress have appropriated money for different hello hello, hello.

Uh uh somebody's talking in my time.

Yeah, yeah.

We we we don't know what's going on.

Hold on for a minute.

Stop the club, Ms.

Payne.

Are we good?

All right, can you give him a couple seconds?

Give it like back to like 46.

Go ahead, Ms.

Davis.

Okay, because I you know I think 6.4, that's something that you know we should be very much aware of.

If if if city council has authorized and approved something, you know, and money is supposed to be allocated, then it should be allocated.

There should be a strong reason as to why it's not been.

You know, we should not be having whoever the mayor is, if you like him or don't like him, just doing stuff that sounds like Donald Trump, and that resources have been dedicated to for a purpose and not being used.

So I think we need to be looking more closely at what's going on with our dollars and more of our dollars need to be spent in Detroit for Detroiters, not always send spending all this money to Lavonia or these other communities.

Thank you.

All right, thank you, sir.

We appreciate that.

Um who do you have next to the queue?

Mr.

Payne.

Mr.

Chair, we're coming back to owner Papa.

All right, two minutes.

Go ahead.

Uh good afternoon, and through the chair, may I be heard?

Yes, ma'am.

Two minutes.

Carolina Hughes.

Yes, I agree with the last caller.

This this whole thing about uh this risk management that you guys had a closed session on and uh private or confidential statement on.

I believe that the police department, who are the vast majority of these um risk management issues, and also the mayor, when he was in the prosecutor's office, are costing the citizens a lot of money, and some things should be done about who should be kicking in on all of this money for risk management.

Also on 6.3, a resolution amending the master installment purchase agreement that you just made on June 17, 2025 to for another two million dollars.

I say absolutely no.

No to any re uh sending or any redoing of this contract to include anything else.

This mayor and you seem very corrupt, this committee.

You you get audit reports that show where we're losing money.

You got a report that said that the corporations were in the red, and you didn't go to the corporations to say kick in to this fund.

You came to the people and said we're gonna steal your property tax dollars and put them in a fund to fill the holes left by corporations like Amazon who just announced they're laying off 14,000 people.

This is unconscionable.

What you guys are doing is digging a hole for the citizens.

And when Mr.

Graham said that we were out of bankruptcy, I got a letter saying that the city was going into bankruptcy.

I have not received such letters saying we were out of bankruptcy, and I'm still looking for that letter because it had my house, my address, along with the city.

So I need some confirmation that my house is no longer tied up in the city of Detroit bankruptcy.

Thank you.

All right, thank you.

We appreciate that.

Who are you next to the queue, Mr.

Payne?

Mr.

Chair, our next caller is iPhone guest.

Or IPO guest, two minutes.

Good afternoon.

This is Betty A.

Varner, our resident of the city of Detroit with information to help people who have Medicare.

This is not Medicaid, it's Medicare.

They do have programs for people with Medicaid, but I'm talking about Medicare at this time.

The name of the program is the University Home Care.

They would call 31358, 9958.

Again, 313 558, 995.

Ask for Mrs.

Darwitch D A R W I C H E.

Say you are referred by a Mrs.

Taylor.

I'm helping someone get the word out.

Uh Mrs.

Taylor and their uh flyer says uh they uh do you or your loved one want to remain at home?

University home care service provides the best professional care in Wayne, Macone and Oakland Counties.

Excellent home care solutions for patients uh who want to remain home while dealing with an injury or illness, specializing in memory care.

All staff is background check for patient safety, and they are fully insured, and they also say uh they provide free home health aids to those who qualify again 31358-9958 University Home Care Services, and it is operated by a nurse.

Say that you're referred by Mrs.

Taylor.

313 558-9958.

Thank you, honorable council member Coleman Young for the two minutes.

We appreciate you, and God bless all within the sound of my voice.

Thank you.

God bless you.

We appreciate you.

Thank you, Ms.

Varner.

Who here next to the queue?

Mr.

Chair, our next caller is Cindy Durham.

All right, Ms.

Dora, floor is yours.

Two minutes.

Ms.

Dara.

Dara goes.

Ms.

Dara go with twice.

I'm here.

I'm here.

Can you hear me?

Yep.

All right.

Is this what democracy looks like?

This whole contract between uh voters, not politicians and uh, I mean, and demonium voting, and now it's my Liberty Voting Machine spot out.

Uh they're a Republican mega company.

Okay, I'm uh complaining.

I want your help.

I want the internal investigation and uh operations committee to investigate this, and also to put pressure on the election commission to have a meeting immediately to put to count my absentee ballots.

I mean my write in votes.

I've been campaigning trying to get on the ballot since March when they didn't refuse to go over my petitions because I didn't sign the right.

Can you hear me?

Hello?

Can you hear me?

Can you hear me?

Yes, we can hear you.

Yes.

Uh well, because I said unmute, so okay.

So give me a couple extra seconds, please.

All right.

So I uh I I uh am supposed to be on the ballot because I when they refuse the same man who stamped my petitions, then I go back to hand a few more in before 4 30, and the door is locked, and and they want to give my petitions back when I called 10 days later.

They said, No, uh, you you didn't sign some paper.

Of course, they never gave me the paper to sign.

So I I complained to Secretary of State, didn't get any answer.

Now they have taken I went in after that and filed for for write in for November.

I tried to do August, they said it wasn't on the ballot, so I did the write-in uh uh appidator of identity.

Now they don't have me record as being a write in, and so they don't want to count my votes.

And I'm trying to promote approval voting over ranked choice, and it's important for people to know this, and I'm just trying to make better government help me.

Mary Sheffi called all right.

Thank you.

We appreciate that.

Who are your next to the queue?

Mr.

Chair, our next caller is stop rushing.

All right, go ahead.

Two bits, floor is yours.

Yeah, yeah.

Can you hear me?

I can okay.

No, it stopped the zoning rush job.

Yeah.

So here's the deal.

Member Young, like that was pretty not serving with integrity to vote to advance the let's build more housing after this administration has been about let's destroy more housing for like 10 years.

Um, when if member Callaway said she doesn't understand this and she has paid staff and she's paid to read these things.

What do you think about the average resident?

So, Mr.

Durhall, really, there's so many people who just dislike you so much for rushing this.

Now, so what I'm asking you, member Young, it just because they had a bunch of meetings doesn't mean that people still fully understand this.

And it's like, you know, people are busy, and so uh I would like to ask you before the hearing, which you'll probably have a stacked agenda and we'll only get 30 seconds public comment, which frankly I believe is a violation of Charter Section 6-205, which I also believe 6-205 has a scribner's error because it talks about notice of meetings, public meetings getting to citizen advisory councils.

We don't have citizen advisory councils that must be should have been community advisory councils.

But Marcel Todd tried to tell me yesterday, well, not tried to, he did tell me that this measure will not take away people's right to object to a project to be able to go to the border zoning appeals of the courts.

Is that true?

I need that in writing, please.

And it did say stop zoning rush jobs.

So please say my full name when I've signed it in that way.

So, member Young, will you please, along with member waters and member Sheffield, have some meetings so we can ask questions, not get muted and get real answers to our questions about all these zoning changes.

Please, please answer me.

Please don't just move on.

Please answer, please.

All right, thank you.

We appreciate that.

Who's next in the uh Qay?

Mr.

Chair, our next caller's phone number ended in 039.

All right, 039, floor is yours, too bad.

Can you hear me clearly, Coleman?

Can you hear me?

Yep.

You along with the mayor, the rest of the city council members, the elected members of the board of police commissioners, and appointing ones are appointed by a TV mayor and the school board.

The school board in by Janet M.

Winfrey and Gina A.

B.

Walker.

Now I'll say that wholeheartedly with the evidence and the facts to prove it and back it up.

Now, what y'all done is unscrupulous as well as reprehensible.

In the city of Detroit, Josh, all these contracts, contract with authority, municipal bonds.

Y'all looked in.

This is my word.

But now it's got this deep.

It's only one way to go with it.

All the way to the Kip Top.

Now, did not shoot herself.

She did not shoot herself.

Darman McCloud did it.

I said that because I did an investigation that determined that Kenita could have not possibly shot herself in the left side in the ability.

A gun burn.

I'm a side unit, Derek May.

And Marco Versage, lead investigator, and listed.

Jeffrey Hutton, assistant Wayne County Medical Examiner changed the original determination of homicide to that of suicide based on some straight up DS.

They don't want to talk about it.

But Nini asked for some help with her mama.

That's what she got.

My word.

All right, thank you, sir.

We appreciate that.

Mr.

Pay, who do we have next to the queue?

Mr.

Chair, the person we have next in the queue is Bobby Smith.

All right, Mr.

Smith.

Floor is yours.

Two minutes.

Mr.

Smith.

Hello?

Yep.

Go ahead, Mr.

Smith.

You all.

Okay.

I have a quick question for you.

Um I heard that um Mr.

Councilman Sheffield and Durham here Councilman Durha was actually gonna um attack the issues when it comes to affordable uh building affordable houses for the uh residents of uh of Detroit.

I'm a contractor and I want to be a part of the process, so who should I contact?

Hello?

Is that it for your public comment?

You got anything else you want to say?

My phone went blank.

I yeah, I was waiting uh for a response to uh who should I contact to actually be a part of the process?

Well, you got a minute for your public comments.

Just say anything else you want to say in a minute.

Oh I couldn't hear you.

Just say anything else you want to say for the rest of the time you got.

You got two minutes.

Oh, okay, okay.

Yeah.

I'm a I'm a contractor, and I do uh multiple renovations, and I just want to be a part of y'all process and growing with the city and um getting rid of the blight, and I just want to know what actual um who should I contact in your um staff to actually um see what should I start at all right?

Well, listen, just call my office at 224 4248.

Two two uh okay.

That is that online because I don't have a pen with me.

I can get that, I'll repeat it a couple times.

So it's 313 224248, it's 313 224.

I appreciate you for repeating me, but I don't even have to have my pin on me right now.

Oh, you got a pen.

Uh uh, that's why I that's what I was saying.

Oh Mr.

Smith, how you gonna go?

You ain't gonna do P.

Man, you you you absolutely right.

Uh I was doing an inspection.

So um I didn't know that was gonna get all the time.

That's how I got a I got two.

I appreciate you for taking my call.

Yeah, we all the internet, man.

Just call.

Just just look, just look me up.

Okay, hold on.

Hey, Wes, that pin.

I'll repeat, I'll repeat again.

It's 224 4248, 313, 224, 4248, 313, 224, 4248.

All right, who we got?

Mr.

Chair, that concludes online public comment today.

All right.

Let's see what we got here.

All right, no one finished business.

We go down with new business.

Office the contract and procurement.

Line of 6.1 contract number 675 24.

Well, 100% major streets slash city funding to provide salt and rock sodium chloride.

Bulk as required on as a required basis.

Contracted Detroit Salt Company LLC.

I think you're supposed to have another L that's that LC.

Yeah.

Location 12841 side of the street, Detroit Michigan 48217 contract period city council approval through August 31st, 2026.

Total contract about 2 billion 129,750.

Their motion to move line of 6.1, the formal session with recognition for approval, you put on to do business.

Discussion.

Discussion.

Chair recognizes Member Santiago Romero.

Thank you.

Uh Mr.

Chair.

Not sure if Mr.

Washington is on with us, but if anyone can answer brief questions that I have for 6.1.

Yes, thank you to audio.

There was a feedback.

But not sure who we have from the administration to help us find anyone that's able to discuss 6.1.

Mr.

Washington.

Good afternoon through the chair.

Yes, sir.

Do you have anybody that can use that's online that can answer uh baby Romero's questions?

My apologies through the chair.

Are we on item um 6.1, the citywide contract?

Yes, sir.

Um we have director Brundage, and I believe Lola Clark online.

Okay.

All right.

Good afternoon, Mr.

Chair.

Is it director Brundis?

Good to see you, sir.

Thank you.

All right, uh Romero, go ahead.

Thank you.

Through you, Mr.

Chair to our director.

Good afternoon.

Uh, we are discussing 6.1.

This is the salt contract.

Um, residents often wonder what streets get salted, what they can expect in the winter.

I'm wondering if you wouldn't mind sharing what streets would be prioritized.

Uh, what streets will the city salt uh sure through the chair, uh member Sadango Romero.

Uh DPW is responsible for salting um uh or for maintaining about 1880 miles of streets of city jurisdiction streets throughout the city.

Um, and of those eighteen hundred and eighty miles, about six hundred and eighty-four are major roads.

Uh so for all snow events that result in any uh accumulation of snow or ice, we salt all of the major roads uh after every snow event.

Uh this particular contract, uh, this 2.1 million dollar contract for road salt will be primary primarily used by DPW, but it'll also be used by uh general services department for clearing uh uh roads at uh at recreative recreation centers as well as uh pathways and parks and also utilized by DD.

Uh, but relative to how we prioritize streets, uh we actually have uh we've broken all of the major streets into three different uh priority categories.

Uh as you can imagine, the most heavily traveled streets are the ones that receive the first attention.

Uh and then that's exactly as an example that would include streets like uh Jefferson, all of the downtown streets, uh West Verner, uh, uh East Werner, um, Livernoy, Wyoming, etc.

Uh, those are the streets that get the initial attention, and then we systematically work our way through all of the major roads in the city.

Thank you.

That's helpful.

Um, what triggers salts?

Is there a certain amount of inches of snow, rain, sleep?

Um, yeah, if you wouldn't mind sharing.

Yeah, we don't have a we we we don't have a minimum amount of of snowfall accumulation uh that triggers uh when we send crews out to salt.

Uh essentially we we have we'll have uh inspectors and field supervision out monitoring the roads that whenever we receive snowfall or even receive ice and uh whenever we uh see that streets are getting slippery, uh irrespective of the amount of snowfall that uh we receive, we send crews out to salt the streets.

Okay, thank you.

So we can probably also connect with you if we see there's a salty road, if it's a main road, um city road for it to be um taken care of.

Thank you.

And my only other question is usually we find these contracts in PHS.

Wondering if you know why it's in P uh at BFA today.

Uh through the chair, ironically, I asked that same question when I saw earlier this morning that it was on its agenda.

Uh, and because as indicated earlier, uh that this contract is not utilized solely by DPW, it's also used by GSD as well as D D DOT.

Uh that it's my understanding that contracts that involve multiple departments uh come through this committee.

Okay, that makes sense.

This this has happened more than once and citywide.

Okay, so this is what the difference is.

That's helpful.

Thank you, director.

That's my only uh uh question, Mr.

Chair.

Motion to approve, sent to formal with the recommendation to approve.

Oh, there's a question.

I take that back, Mr.

Chair.

Ms.

Corley.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

You have to know city council.

I had a couple questions.

Um in our contract write-up.

It says no bid information is included.

And so I understand this is a state of Michigan contract, and because City Detroit is a municipality of the state, uh, there's no award summary, but maybe they can kind of speak to that as to why uh or further enhance what I just said as to why there's no bid information involved.

Uh through the chair, um uh to Mr.

Corley.

Uh this particular contract was actually awarded through the state's Medal uh co-op program.

Uh so the state solicited and received the uh the bids directly through their through their co-op program.

Uh Detroit SOT was a low bidder through that process.

Uh and then uh the city of Detroit taking advantage of the low prices that were submitted through that process.

I then entered into a contract with Detroit SOD.

So the reason that it's not showing any uh any bids is because the bids were actually received by the state through their co-op program.

Thank you.

Just one more question.

So our write-up also indicates the contract price is sixty dollars and eighty prices per ton.

Um is that about the same as last year, or is there some inflation in there?

Inflation buildup.

Uh through the chair that to Mr.

Corley, I I I don't have in front of me uh our exact cost uh of what we paid last year.

Uh offhand, I believe the amount was uh around $59 a ton, but I can get you the exact amount that we paid last year.

Okay, thank you.

That's it.

Thank you.

All right, thank you.

All right, motion has been made to move line on six point one to formal session with recommendation for approval, we put on to do business.

Are there any objections?

Hearing done, line on six point one, we move to formal session with recognition for approval, we put on to do business.

Motion for new business, Mr.

Chair, new business is usually reserved for like um neighborhood items and PHS.

I knew what I said that I knew it was wrong.

So I just say regular formal session.

Okay.

Okay.

Thank you.

Okay, so motion has been made to move this forward to regular session.

Are there any checkers?

And uh last this point will be moved forward to formal sessions.

All right.

Thank you.

We would all thank you, sir.

Line on 6.2, uh submitting report placeholder regarding quarterly management quarterly risk management report.

The law department has submitted a privilege and confidential memorandum regarding the above reference matter.

Please submit this idle to referral so that council may consider the action see this.

Is there a motion to take up line item 6.2?

Motion motions be made.

Are there any objections?

Line of 6.2 will be taken up.

So this is evolving the quarterly uh risk management report.

Ms.

Anderson, is there anything you want to contribute to this at all?

Through the chair of Graham Anderson Law Department.

Not nothing really too much of detail.

This is uh just a breakdown of the settlements from uh uh the second quarter, third quarter of everything that was involved in the law department.

Of course, most of these have uh come across the internal operations committee agenda and then been approved in formal session.

I don't know if you have any specific questions to any uh specific matter, but an email went out with the Excel spreadsheet breakdown to uh all council members last week.

I'm happy to answer any other questions.

Thank you.

No, I don't have any questions.

Uh gentleman, do you have any questions?

Yes, discussion.

Go ahead.

Chair recognize member.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh, through you to Mr.

Anderson Attorney Anderson.

This is political confidential.

Can I ask you questions about my concerns to the report?

Through the chair.

You can ask questions, you know, kind of a overreaching general sense.

Yeah, not so much, you know, tell me about this specific case.

Well, in the general sense of the report, I have a lot of concerns seeing that and we knew this already, D dot and DPD coming with the most um cases.

Um but for D D dot is driving, and that's always kind of the case.

A lot of that is also for for DPD.

Um but a very concerning one is the the more than once the issue of violating human rights.

I know that for D D dot, uh, as the chair for PHS, we hear about their risk management as well and their training and how they're looking to address it.

Are we doing the same with DPD?

And if you wouldn't mind actually sharing with us what those violations of human rights are, because then we can get a better sense of what needs to be trained or what needs to be done.

But I have concerns seeing that be one of the main things that DPD is being accused of and settling for.

Through through the chair, uh to address a few points there, the the majority of the time when we're talking about human rights, we're talking about uh the the amendments.

It was a violation of someone's First Amendment rights, or it was uh an alleged unlawful seizure or something along those lines is typically what is being alleged in those lawsuits.

When it comes to settlement, that necessarily one does not have anything to, it's not an admission of fault by any means.

Um, but two beyond that, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is a loss for the city.

And uh I I mean that both in the financial sense of this, you know, this the settled for five thousand dollars as opposed to what it could have potentially settled for, but but I I also mean in the sense that sometimes matters just cannot be dismissed based on them being a question of fact.

That's typically the most often weapon used in litigation from our side is uh submitting a motion saying that the only issue here is a legal issue, therefore the judge should be able to decide it, and we believe the judge should decide on our favor when that happens, it the case is dismissed, and it's uh you know a victory for the city in that regard.

But sometimes there are just inherent questions of fact that need to be heard by a jury, and uh in that case, it's not always um productive to actually put all the resources into a trial to go to a trial, so we will still settle in those matters sometimes as well.

So that's that's what I'm saying, in the sense of um it's not always um a financial victory, but um a legal victory as well, too, in the settlement in that regard.

But in terms of what training is being done to address these situations, I I can't speak too in detail about that.

We need somebody from DPD, uh maybe Grant High.

I I don't think he's available at the moment to potentially speak on it, but I know you know lots of training goes into this.

This is something that we are very sensitive to.

But but one thing I also I I want to highlight that that I've highlighted internal operations before is we kind of see a delayed response because most of these lawsuits are from incidents that happened a year ago, two years ago, three years ago, five years ago.

Um but it was talking about risk reverse conviction, we're talking maybe 20, 30 years ago cases, you know, potentially older than either of us were alive, uh, is when the facts happened.

So it's it's difficult to kind of see the correction because if the correction is being made right now, we're not really gonna see those results until a few years down the line when we begin to see, you know, less incidents happening and less lawsuits coming in that sense.

So it's hard to quantify the training, how effective it's being done, because it's almost like something we need to kind of wait and see how how it happens.

Um but I I can't get into the training specific details that that's something I would have to defer to DPD.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

Hello, Mr.

Chair.

Hello, Member Santiago Romero.

Um I yes, I still have more.

Um trying to understand what you're saying to me.

Um, because it's a few different things, I believe.

One, are you also stating, are you are you trying to say that sometimes these cases aren't fact or more like fiction or the people are coming in without real issues that we just settle for just to settle, or the chair, I would say I would not use any of those words to describe it.

I would say sometimes the burdens of proof aren't met from the allegations that are made.

Okay.

So got it.

Still, if we are spending four million dollars a quarter on these issues, it's gonna look like we're spending 12 million plus a year to be addressing these.

This adds up, and I think looking at training, looking at what we're doing to write this um will be beneficial in the long term.

You might see the changes next year, but hopefully, to your points, we will see the changes we will see the savings in the millions of dollars.

Absolutely.

Um and another question that I'm not sure if you know either is I'm all about carrots and trainings and providing supports and structure for our team.

But if they're not following it, if it's not happening, is there discipline that we're seeing for DDOT or DPD?

Um, I know that whenever I made a mistake or did something wrong, my mom made me do something about it.

So are they getting their money back?

Are they paying this a piece of their salary back to the city for the consequences that they is that a consequence of them?

I'm trying to think do we have any sticks?

I I want to make sure we have the carrots, but do we have any sticks to be able to to change behavior?

Through the chair, I cannot speak to the details of the quote unquote sticks.

Um I I know they are out there, but also you you have to remember they're all also union protections for uh our police officers as well as all of our employees, but our our police officers in particular have uh a little bit more uh protections in their collective bargaining than a lot of uh our other uh employees.

But but one thing I I I want to comment as well, too, which I think is important to note, is and I haven't seen any studies like this.

This is something uh I'm doing by Mr.

Corley impression by putting my uh policy sense in here.

Um that I I think something that would be really valuable to see would see a city comparison of other US cities with roughly the same population as Detroit and see how our numbers look compared to theirs.

There is some inherent human error and negligence that's gonna happen driving D D dot buses.

There's you know, these these are big vehicles, it's a tough job.

There is going to be some inherent damages that are gonna happen.

That doesn't mean of course we can still have training and improve that, but there is some just inherent risk in there too.

I would be curious to know how the city of Detroit looks in comparison to I don't know, Cincinnati or somebody of relatively similar size.

Are we about the same?

Are we way lower, are we way higher?

I think something like that would be very telling as well, too.

Um because that there is some you know, so some of this we we absolutely want to do everything we can to reduce this and have the best training possible, but but there will eventually be a ceiling or maybe a floor in this sense that that we would eventually hit, I believe, as well.

The chair, I agree that's a good thought, and something that would be helpful to level set where we are and and where we where we should be.

And quite frankly, driving is inherently dangerous, regardless.

So I'm actually not so concerned about D D dot, who's doing a pretty dangerous drive of uh of driving.

I'm concerned of police who have power, who will then use their power and her residents.

Absolutely.

That is my concern.

Okay, thank you.

Those are my questions.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Member Santiago Romero and the clerk should know we've been joined by me.

So good afternoon to you uh all and I apologize uh for our tartiness today.

Uh had to take care of some personal matters.

Um to you, Mr.

Anderson, on this particular subject, uh, and without going too deep because it's privileged and confidential, we understand that.

I know we've had conversations in the past uh of how the city moves forward to member Santiago Romero's point, you know, uh it is concerning of how we see that we grow.

Uh obviously that'll take some time uh based off of recommendations that have been made by our IG recommendations that have been made by our auditor general uh and some of these processes uh that we've seen over the years.

Um but as as we look at this uh specifically uh in your opinion, um, from where we are now, not getting too deep into it.

I know there's a conversation relative even on the law department side of how I don't want to use the word scrutiny, but you know, uh how we decide what cases or are or are these cases is the juice worth the squeeze, right?

Um can we talk about without going too deep some of those internal processes that law is kind of looking at uh regarding our case loads?

I know uh and if folks don't know, uh our law department, some folks think they just see you in this council meeting uh they're in court almost every day.

Uh can but can we talk about just how do we scrutinize these cases regarding caseloads?

What does caseloads look like?

Have we seen an increase uh possibly uh just in these past four to eight years of cases coming before us uh compared to uh let's just say you know uh a decade ago.

Yeah.

Through the chat's a fantastic question, uh Councilmember Durhall.

And I I don't have the the year by year comparison in in front of me or off the top of my head, but I know that's something we absolutely could get.

Um some of that, you know, it is is out of our control.

We're not the ones filing the suits.

Um, but it it's you know our alleged actions that that that lead to that.

But but one thing uh I want to note too that is something that is not just uh city of Detroit law department, but just the state of courts in general in Michigan and across the country, is there is a huge push over the past 10, 20, 30 years towards settlement that we do not take civil matters to trial, and that's for a variety of reasons.

One is because of just the unpredictability of juries and uh how potential high the stakes are financially.

Two is the costs have become more and more expensive with the trial prep that goes into that, and then in so many of these cases, too, especially when you're dealing with uh physical injuries, you're bringing in doctors and you know MRI specialists to testify in injuries as well, which is also expensive.

So if you know you you you have a case for $15,000, and you're really confident that you know you shouldn't pay a dime on this case, but there's enough to keep it in without being dismissed.

It makes more sense to settle the case for eight grand than it is to spend 20 grand on a trial to get that zero dollar award.

So so there there's some things like that that that play into it as well.

It as well as judges are extremely extremely their dockets are overfilled.

One thing I can say, I can't say so much of us personally, but since COVID, Wayne County has had a huge backlog on cases, and and uh Chief Justice Fazard has done a wonderful job trying to slim that down and narrow it.

But uh, but I know there is still rippling effects that we still feel from that huge backlog that occurred during COVID.

That's something that you know doesn't, you know, get fix itself in a year or two.

It it takes a while.

But but even beyond that, there has been a huge push of judges that they they don't want to try cases.

It takes a lot of time for them too, and they have a huge docket they want to get things uh through.

Uh, there's been times personally where I've been in chambers, not as a city of Detroit attorney, but in my past career as a plaintiff counsel where judges have said, I'm not gonna try this case.

I'm gonna bring this back and back and back for settlement conferences until you settle it.

So that that plays a big part of it too, because I I I know people think we know why should you settle if you think the city's in the right, but sometimes you really don't have the option.

So there's a lot of factors that go into this.

This is something larger than the city of Detroit's law department.

This is something that is just uh how civil litigation has developed over the years.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And and I always I appreciate that.

I mean, obviously there are cases that come uh in front of us uh that are frivolous.

Yes.

And then there are cases that come in front of us that have merit.

Of course.

Uh I think over the past few years, particularly, council, this body uh in some ways have faced a little bit of scrutiny uh regarding whether it's represent representation or dimnification and or settlements, because we see a ton of settlements come in.

But I appreciate you pushing the point that oftentimes it becomes cheaper for us to settle because the city in that mind state still understands that this is taxpayer dollars.

So let's say if you go to a trial and we are 100% in the right, but the can gets kicked down the road, we have cost and that number keeps going up.

Yep.

Right.

We find that we are in the right.

Uh then do we go after that plaintiff for damages or or bringing that case, which we may not see our money anyway.

Exactly.

And so then we're wasting additional taxpayer dollars.

And so uh I I believe personally that's where scrutiny comes in.

Uh doing our best to determine which cases have merit, which cases are frivolous, which cases are best for settlement, that will be in the best interest of the citizens as a whole, noting uh that we have to ensure that we're remaining fiscally stable here as a city and fiscally prudent and utilizing taxpayer dollars uh in a very judicious way.

So uh but I appreciate that.

Look forward to hearing more uh in the next few, you know, uh few coming uh set sessions, should I say, regarding uh risk management, but always a huge issue and not an issue that just the city of Detroit faces.

Um there are municipalities uh around this country, uh particularly larger municipalities with larger budgets that uh deal with this each and every day, and whether that's via sidewalks or buses or police uh or whatever the case may be.

Uh uh I I don't see it going away anytime soon.

Uh I think the ultimate um reprieve will come from how policies are adjusted at a council table or that through their legislative bodies, our legislative body, uh, and again, and or the scrutiny of which cases we actually take on.

So, but but thank you for that.

Thank you.

Let me just finally say we have some of the finest litigators in the state of Michigan here at the city of Detroit.

These people are not getting rich working at the city of Detroit.

They could make much more money going um to specific firms.

Uh, but they're they're here, they're doing fantastic work for us.

Um, I know uh a buddy of mine, Chris Michaels, just won a trial for the city a couple weeks ago, got a zero sum award.

So uh we have some amazing attorneys here at the city of Detroit doing their best for the people's interest.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Well we appreciate uh their service uh as well.

Mr.

Corley.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh appreciate all the work that the law department does, and I know that city council members work you know hand in hand as much as possible with the council with the law department.

Just to remind on the sober note, just to remind, you know, the council and the public.

We do spend about the city does spend about sixty million dollars a year on average in risk management.

And uh, you know, that that's a burden on the general fund.

So whatever reforms that can be um implemented, you know, that we can glean from other cities, you know.

I think Mr.

Anderson had a great idea about maybe we should do some type of benchmarking, you know, with other cities and what they what their costs are relative to the city of Detroit and what they're implementing to improve their services, maybe we can use some of that here.

Because it is it is a large burden.

So thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr.

Corley.

And to your point, uh again, that's why I mentioned through the legislative table.

Um part of the barrier that I do recognize though, things that may offer a little bit of reprieve and less use of risk management funding or or uh putting a strain on our general funds, some of those roles lead through Lancing for state law.

Um which trumps uh our municipal ordinances here.

Uh I remember being in the legislature, uh member Young was there who was senator at the time, uh, and we had legislation come in front of us dealing with the city of Detroit as well as other municipalities uh on uh things such as sidewalks uh and and a few other things.

Um and at the time you you don't really you you don't really think about as much as when you're sitting there and you're looking at the budget than the risk management and you're saying, oh wow, maybe uh this you you get a different perspective uh on on what type of policies need to be made.

Uh but in that also comes outreach to the community uh for them to uh decide and and and also have the opportunity to weigh in because they're affected by policy changes, obviously, that happened at this council table.

So uh to you, Mr.

Anderson, this comes up as a report, but it's stating that we need to consider action or we need to submit this item for referral uh so that council may consider any action that is necessary.

From my understanding, this was just going to be a receive and file.

Through the chair receiving file would be appropriate.

Okay, thank you.

Okay, members.

Any further questions, commentary?

All right, is there a motion to receive and file line item 6.2?

Motion.

Hearing no objections, that action shall be taken.

Thank you very much, Mr.

Anderson.

Next under the office of the chief financial officer line item 6.3 submitting a resolution of authorization for resolution amending master installment purchase agreements.

This is submitted by this OCFO and a resolution again, amending it and supplementing resolution authorizing the installment purchase agreements.

Motion to discuss line item 6.3.

Motion.

Thank you, member vice chair.

We have Mr.

Johnson joining us.

Good afternoon, sir.

Please state your name for the record and proceed.

Good afternoon, Mr.

Chair, members of the committee.

I'm Donnie Johnson and I am the acting deputy CFO and budget director for the city of Detroit.

So this item is clearly, I think has caused some confusion.

And I do apologize for that.

So this item is really just a cleanup item.

The council has already authorized the increase to the IPA.

We did that in the FY25 year close resolution, which is the resolution that allows us to close out a fiscal year.

This was included in that.

However, our bond council has subsequently come back to us and indicated that we really needed additional language to make it explicit that we were um re that just restates the limited tax pledge and the tax covenant.

Um that's just necessary for their records and for potential future IRS records around uh this financing transaction.

So what this resolution does is effectively nothing.

Um it's a simply restating what was already authorized by council a few months a handful of months ago um in a different resolution, but adding more detail um from a bond law perspective.

I appreciate you, Mr.

Johnson.

We don't really hear that this does nothing.

Uh here uh I I would like to further say and clarify just for you that it ensures that all of our language relative to this matter is consistent.

Correct.

That is that is what it does.

I I should have I should have been clear.

It does not effectuate any change in funding or um uh borrowing levels or anything like that.

It simply is restating for legal purposes.

So it accomplishes covering us from a bond and financing compliance perspective.

Thank you.

I would not want folks thinking that we're at this table doing nothing.

Understood.

Um questions by members.

Okay, saying none, is there a motion to send line item six?

Oh, chair recognizes member Santiago Romero.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Through you to Donnie Hello, just because of the confusion, it does read that we are increasing this by two million.

Right.

So uh through the chair uh to council member Santiago Romero.

Um yes, it does state that because it's it were restating what was already done.

So we're not we would not be taking this as legal authorization to increase by another two million that action was already taken.

Um this uh resolution simply restates the action that was already taken.

So um that's a really great question because I think it's really important for the public um to hear that that this does not we are not asking for two million additional dollars from what we um sought in June, because it would have been June when we did the year close resolution.

So it's simply restating what we did in June, but it does not allow us to take an additional two million.

Through the chair, thank you.

That is helpful, and I think that provides better clarity.

Um, just one question that I do have.

Um, we're also being explicit about this allowing us to purchase equipment, um, vehicles, equipment, printers, copy machines.

Just reading all of this.

Is there a is there a type of my deal for computers and equipment that we could look into?

Because usually that comes at a better price as well.

Uh through the chair uh to council member Santiago Romero.

Um, yes, there is.

We also have so we have um we've already replaced all of the copiers and printers.

So that's why we when we did this originally back in June.

That's the action we were taking at that time.

Um and that rollout happened over about uh two month period, I believe.

Um so all city departments, including the council, um, received all new copiers and printers and things like that.

Um, those were through our contract that we have um with a new with a new print company.

So previously we leased our printers, um, the printers that everyone was familiar with.

We now essentially own them.

Um, and we have the option to then essentially trade them in um at the end of their lives for credit and then you know, get new um new printers.

It's a little bit more of a sustainable model for us because um under the leasing models, things like repair and maintenance and things like that were a little bit um trickier for us to get lined up when we needed them as timely as we needed them under this new um arrangement.

We actually have a lot more responsive um uh service and we're able to sort of order our own um ink and and toner and things like that if we need to, whereas we could not do that on the the lease model.

It had to go through the leased vendor.

Um and so that that wasn't as cost effective for us.

Through the chair, is my deal only lease?

Uh uh through the chair.

No, my deal does have outright purchases.

Um, because of the volume that we negotiated with our new print vendor, we we did receive a very competitive price as far as I'm aware.

Um, I don't know the per unit.

Um, I do not know that off the top of my head.

That's probably something that um do it.

Um Director Thompson would probably be um more able to answer, but um, you know, we did negotiate a pretty um pretty substantially competitive price because we were replacing an entire city government's worth of equipment.

You know, that it's a pretty big um uh thing to take out into the market.

Through the chair, thank you.

Okay, this is helpful.

Um, and I'm just trying to get a better understanding of my deal.

So it sounds like we can lease, we can purchase outright, we can also borrow.

It sounds like we can um I like for fire.

I feel like I we've had these discussions before.

Um, so this these are just questions to get a better understanding.

Um, but uh those are all my questions.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Member Santiago Romero.

Are there any further questions?

Mr.

Chair, Mr.

Corley.

Um, I did inquire about the budget for debt service for the installment purchase agreement.

Um, this service, of course, being principal and interest payments, and it does have enough money in the budget to accommodate the the two million on top of the 55 million.

So I was happy to hear that from Mr.

Johnson.

Thank you, Mr.

Corley.

Okay.

Seeing no further questions, is there a motion to send line item 6.3 to formal with a recommendation to approve?

Motion.

Hearing no objections, that action shall be taken.

Thank you very much, Mr.

Johnson.

Thank you, sir.

Next under the legislative policies uh policy division line item 6.4 submitting a resolution of authorization for request for a report concerning outstanding budget allocations.

Motion to discuss line item 6.4.

Thank you.

This is a request from a council member Azul Whitfield Callaway to LPD, to LPD.

So, Mr.

Chair, um Ms.

Short is going to present a PowerPoint, and uh Mr.

Payne's gonna help with that.

I do want to say on the outset that um really really really appreciate all the work for Ms.

Short.

Um, there's a huge spreadsheet that she puts together.

I mean a huge spreadsheet to do this, and I want to take this opportunity as well to thank my daughter, Vicky Victory Corlin for helping uh Miss Short on this project.

Victory's been with me now about a year uh with her accounting and um auditing background, she's been a wonderful addition to the LPD fiscal team.

So thank you, Victory.

So you're telling me she's the brains of the operation.

I I I happen to know Mr.

Corley.

It gets better every time, every every generation.

Uh but but thank you all for your work.

Definitely thank you, Ms.

Short for your work.

I do have a quick question before we get started.

I know recently we went over the closing resolutions.

Is some of that information going to be included in this as well?

Um, because I know we went over kind of what has been rolled out and allocated, but this seems to be more specificity, or this should uh this seems to contain more specificity as it regards to the numbers and please.

I'm sorry, uh introduce yourself for the record, Ms.

Short.

Good afternoon, Mr.

Chair.

Um my name is Renee Short.

I'm with the uh fiscal analysts with the legislative policy division.

Good afternoon to this honorable body.

Um in response to your question, this only looks at the budget appropriations that were made by uh council.

So these are the dollars that are in the system.

Um that was uh done doing um the adoption of the budget for the fiscal years 23, 24, and 25.

Okay, thank you.

Okay.

So um, as previously noted, uh we received the request from council member Angela Whitfield Colloway Callaway, excuse me, um, asking us to provide a report concerning council's outstanding budget allocation for these three fiscal years.

Um and it should include the project studies and reports that the administration failed to complete or fully fund.

Um again, it was raised by the councilwoman in the internal ops um standing committee regarding a specific appropriation that uh she made 350,000 for um civil rights inclusion opportunity department to conduct a study.

Again, it was raised by the councilwoman in the internal ops standing committee regarding a specific appropriation that she made $350,000 for civil rights inclusion opportunity department to conduct a study.

Those funds were not used, and it was those funds she was informed were returned to the general fund.

The councilwoman felt that this was a common problem and serving as a phantom veto where the administration chooses not to conduct or execute the council's wishes with these appropriations.

Next slide.

So our approach to this request, we as council member Dorhall had noted, have provided in the past a report on periodic updates on City Council's closing resolutions.

And we combined the process to also look into these appropriations that council completed during this three-year period.

We wanted to take a holistic approach to how the administration handles city council's priorities.

So in this chart number, table number one.

So that we call their appropriated priorities, council's appropriated priorities.

And those are funding for new hires, personnel costs, funding for compensation increases, and that includes any stiphons that were given to our boards, funding for programs, and this category include the studies and funding for any new or existing programs, funding for operations, and that's training, software, expansion of operating services by the departments, and then appropriations made for capital.

And so the total number of appropriations for this three-year period was a hundred and forty-seven.

Next would be funding of new or existing programs, and third item was personnel items.

So our approach here was to establish the attempt of the administration to carry out city council's priorities.

Meaning that there the project was not funded, or there's some remaining balances from those priorities.

Next slide, please.

So here we're just going into the categories.

Again, for personnel, there were 27 appropriations allocated, and determined was used for its intended purpose.

Next, we have the compensation issues, and here we found of the eight allocations, they did not go to general fund surplus, but are we want to lift up here is that a surplus when you're dealing with compensation and then when you're dealing with personnel issues can arise due to timing issues.

Normally staff not hired on July 1, and so you would have the later in the budget year in the fiscal year that a person is higher.

Uh normally staff not hired on July 1, and so you would have the later in the budget year in the fiscal year that a person is hire, you can generate what we call turnover savings, and so there could be some remaining funds from that activity for those appropriations.

Uh next uh programs and new and existing programs.

Here we're looking at the issues of was the program considered uh and the execution of the program uh sometimes as you start, especially with a new program and you have the initial time period to start up the program, um it goes a little longer than um expected and may exceed the uh this fiscal year.

So there were 32 new existing programs or studies or analysis that were funded over the three-year period.

Operations here about 30 of the 63 allocations were for council offices or divisions, and the other 33 were for independent agencies and for other city department activities.

Uh last here is our capital projects, which use these um appropriations mainly went to our cultural institutions, and so there were 17 of them done during this period, and uh again capital appropriations uh do not go to general fund surplus, but they roll over each year until the funds are either expended or reprogrammed.

Next slide.

So here are our findings.

Uh this first column we note that the funds did not go to general fund surplus, and we found that 80% of the appropriation fall within this uh category.

Uh we have a small percentage that did go to surplus, and those particular appropriations have been discussed in uh various council sessions uh during the budget hearings we had for 26 and 25, and then the last column are the um one where there is some uncertainty as to whether they could go to surplus or or not.

Okay, next slide.

So you would find in the report that we go through some um in-depth discussion regarding the categories.

Again, setting up the categories allow us to really um look deeper into these appropriations and determine the intent as to how the funds should have been spent, and was there any intent on the part of administration not to carry out um council's wishes.

And as you see in table two, that majority of these were conducted and executed as appropriated.

On this slide, and in our report, we list 30 um appropriations that we filled these additional discussion.

There's some remaining balances out there we um that could go to surplus.

Some of those 30 items were um appropriated in appropriations that had multiple activity, and so it would be difficult to determine exactly if city council's actions were carried out as intended, and so we list them there.

For here on this slide, we're listing five items that demonstrate the type of challenges, I guess, that uh were noted from that larger listing.

Um the first um appropriation is the disparity study by CREO that really initiated this review, and as stated, those funds were not expended, and they went to surplus.

The next appropriation was dealing with bus driver training and diversity, and that's a dot item.

It went into existing appropriation, unable to determine if that action was carried out, and there are some remaining balances at year end.

And so this one we just requires uh further discussion.

Appropriation for zoo for senior transportation, that was 36,000.

Um there is remaining fund balance for this one of 34,000.

Since this is as of 2025, this item may possibly go to surplus.

Um the senior accessibility program for a million dollars, it went into existing appropriation, unable to see if this was spent accordingly, and it has year-in balances that have the possibility of going to surplus.

Um last is the DE Detroit Employment Solutions Corporation, DESC, and from their response, they have initiated various conversations to carry out this priority.

However, at year end their dollar amount is still there, and it has the possibility of going to surplus.

Next slide.

So our conclusion is this of the 147 um allocations, appropriations made for fiscal year 23, 24, and 25.

Uh, 80% of them, 118 were implemented for their intended purpose, and did not go to surplus, and this is a high percentage.

Um, however, some of them could have gone to surplus, and that was the the column on table two where we noted 25 of the hundred and forty-seven.

Um that's represents 17 percent uh that needs further discussion and further investigation.

And then we have the four that did go to surplus.

It was discussed.

Um you know, even though it's a small percentage, it's something that we would not like to see happen in the future.

And so that leads us to our recommendations.

Next slide.

So our recommendations build on the need for greater transparency and accountability.

And hopefully, this will result in an ongoing timely communications with city council before appropriation goes unspent and fall into surplus funds.

Um, first recommendation is that the appropriation that is listed on Schedule B at City Council adopts the budget, be properly assigned in the financial system oracle to accurately monitor and determine if the funds were used for their intended purpose.

And to address this recommendation, OCFO has planned to assign a project number to all non-personnel budget items added or modified by city council via Schedule B.

Any appropriate funds or closing resolutions that council would like to monitor.

We're recommending that they should be placed on the subcommittee agendas for uh additional discussion, and that way we would have a record on the response from the department that can be uh in detail feedback.

Next slide.

If the department or agency find that they are unable to implement council's directives via these appropriations, the administration should notify council and work with council to reprogram the funds.

Again, this is working on communication and hopefully we prevent any funds lapsing into surplus and remaining unused.

Again, I as a courtesy, these funds should not transfer without this communication with council first, and then any remaining balances of council budget allocations should be discussed before we let anything fall into surplus.

We do want to raise LPD wants to raise a caveat though that we want to, especially for our listening audience to be aware of, and that is that the mayor is not obligated to spend funds in appropriations established by council in circum certain circumstances.

And so these are the two things that frame um the use of appropriations.

Um if there is for example uh fiscal distress that requires budget cuts, uh then the mayor has the ability and the flexibility to maneuver by, for example, uh hiring freezes, not filling positions, may require that contracts be renegotiated that are different from um council's original priorities set with their appropriations.

So in that case they can, but uh as the as previously said, for all intents and purposes, council's appropriations should be fulfilled as uh they are set according to their purpose.

And last uh recommendation remaining fund balances for um council um appropriation allocated but not expended at the fiscal year should carry forward into the next fiscal year.

You may get a little pushback from OCFO on that one, but that is our recommendation, and unless it's re you know approved for reprogramming, and as Councilmember Young knows that some of his activity had been reprogrammed and had been uh brought to the table and discussed and reprogrammed, and that's good you know, communication and uh we look forward to that.

Uh last slide is if I'm any questions.

Yeah, first I want to thank you, Ms.

Short for your amazing work uh as well as an entire LPD team uh on this.

Uh just to note a couple things um as we went through the recommendations, uh it always flows through my mind as we are talking uh about the priorities of this body, although intently expressed through the budget for a line items, uh, it has become murky over the years relative to what uh little bit different from the state regarding boilerplate language and how the funds are supposed to be spent, and if not, they cannot be expended.

Uh so there's a there's a murk, there's a bit of murkiness in that um as you talk about municipal finance and boilerplate language.

Um, but I I I often in opinion uh think that transparency is best uh if it cannot be rolled out to your point and needs to be reprogrammed.

Um it is the hope that you know that is uh intently expressed.

I can speak for from personal uh uh experience with some items that I've had.

Uh if there were some issues rolling that out, I've had a great conversations with the OCFO on those and how we roll those out or other departments uh as well.

Uh and sometimes the intent in which we put items in the budget uh as legislators, we have a great idea on how to roll them out, but then oftentimes we don't and we may not see the capacity on the other side of those departments to be able to roll them out.

Um but uh but I think it's a um it should be a healthy uh relationship uh and and communication and and discussion on those items.

Uh I did want to uh go to just to a specific item uh notated uh on uh your list.

I think it was one of the five relative to uh disability and sensitivity training for D DOT.

Um I know a lot about that one.

I think I put that one in the budget.

So from my understanding, they're going to be working on that.

I know that that was one that you say you guys had to investigate that they would be working on implementing uh that.

Uh I know that probably takes some time.

You did mention uh relative to unions uh as well.

There's you know, there's a lot of moving pieces related to to drivers and and training uh and even possibly what is expressed in their contracts in regard to training.

So I'd be interested to find to hear what you guys find out relative to that training uh because maybe contractually uh that is not a required element of their contracts right now.

So uh that would be I I'd be interested to hear what you find out uh about that.

Um for the senior accessibility program as well, the additional one million dollars.

Um can we talk a little bit more in our findings?

Uh were there discussions on just the capacity to roll it out.

I know at one time we had increased the funding for it, but then we found out that some folks were not eligible for their pro for that program based off of income.

So the applicants were there, there were high level number of applicants, but eligibility requirements were a little bit strenuous uh because uh of income levels of let's say some of our seniors, you know, the ones that are falling in the the missing middle.

Um they make too much to qualify for the program but still need the the assistance.

Um did we what was that part of any discussions as we like highlighted that item or that example?

Mr.

Chairman, for this particular item.

We highlighted it because it falls in we've received uh a number of appropriations where we just could not dig down deep enough to see how they spent the fund because this is in the existing appropriation.

We got multiple activities happening.

So with a remaining balance of a general fund appropriation, there is that possibility of it falling into surplus.

So we don't have we need that further discussion that tells us exactly where you are and is this activity, will it roll forward into the next fiscal year if it remains um incomplete.

That is uh a question mark for us, and that it's why we're highlighting it because there's been uh uh there are a number of these appropriations out there that are in not isolated but in within uh appropriations that you you can't determine exactly what has been spent to date.

And and in that same vein, um, as we're looking at it, and I'm hope I hope to hear this uh in the follow-up from this conversation, may not happen this session, maybe maybe next next council session, but also noting that some of these appropriations uh were put uh or additional funding was put in in general funds that the GF was utilized, but some of them started out as ARPA.

So it'd be interesting to see, because obviously we're not mixing ARPA funding, quote unquote, with general fund dollars, but ARPA or general fund dollars may be used to supplement those programs or ensure their longevity, uh, even though this is one time funding because we're talking one time funding items.

Um I'd be interested to see how the percentage of when we talk about new and existing programs, what percentage of those programs were ARPA that had additional general funding or general fund dollars added on that to either ensure their longevity or increase their efficacy and efficiency.

Uh I'd be interested to see that.

Um also I wanted to bring up one, I think I want to bring up one last thing that I had.

Can we talk about capital projects?

Because I know oftentimes sometimes as legislators in our mind, we expect to see, and I'm speaking, you know, for myself as well.

We expect to see uh swift movement uh on some capital projects and for them to come into fruition.

But as we note in the budget, when we break it down, there's a lot of pago that happens, particularly under capital projects as you look at the capital agenda.

There's a lot of pago there.

Can we talk about um how it may have been the intent of a council member to put something in there for a let's say a specific capital project, but noting that this project is really paygoing should should it's probably gonna be carried out over the years.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um with capital projects, uh some of the the funds were placed in um fund 453, which is the really capital bond project.

Those we don't worry about because they move forward.

Those that are received capital dollars, you know, through either using our prior year surplus, uh those we have to be concerned about that they encumber the dollars during that fiscal year because capital projects um for the most part have lengthy time periods to go through.

Uh right now we're um working with the Charles Wright Museum, and they have like five phases to their uh capital projects of fixing their heating and uh HVAC uh activity and just the infrastructure um going on with the museum, and so we um they submit their invoices and we reimburse them for their uh capital activity.

So um I'm not sure if I address your question or not.

Well, you did kind of touched on it a little bit because that's uh also an interesting point as well as we talk about outside agencies, right?

Uh that may receive funding, whether it's via the Easter market or the Detroit Zoo or you know, uh our museums.

Uh noting that they also have independent bodies that are responsible for expending the the dollars that they receive, uh, which is a process in itself.

So we could appropriate, let's say we appropriate, you know, a million dollars for a specific project that's intended for the zoo.

Uh and that project has to go through their board, they have to put out an RFP to decide who's going to carry out the project and things of that nature.

Those are also things that I think uh could be expressly um mentioned in here for members to take into account uh as well with some of that funding that may not have been expended uh as of yet because they are we don't write them a check until they give us an invoice, right?

I think you I I appreciate you articulating that because some folks don't think that's the process.

Some folks think that we put it in a budget and we just send the money over to them.

Uh and it and it doesn't work that way.

Uh but I I think that'd be interesting to to kind of put in there as we're talking about following reports as well.

I think it'd be helpful for council members.

And one of the things that I love that you mentioned is also just kind of creating some type of real-time uh tracker or monitor to see where these are.

Um I don't know if that is going to be in committee and putting them as a line item, and then I say that as a chair of the committee, noting that during budget season, you I think we're talking 25.

You said 100 over 118 uh requests or whatever it is.

That it's a lot of line items uh spread throughout the committee.

Most will probably fall through this committee because they may be citywide or and or PED uh through HRD and other departments and and public health and safety as well.

Um but it'd be interesting to see that tracker.

I think uh to have the ability to track the progress uh of where these items are, not at the end of the fiscal year or even quarterly, but just kind of trying to have the ability to kind of track it in real time uh will would be helpful uh to members uh as well.

Um but that that concludes my commentary on this specifically, but I did want to thank you, you know, for your work on that.

Not an easy thing to kind of track down uh all of these items.

Uh you have outdone yourself again.

Uh uh, but uh we really appreciate your time and your effort that you have put in this.

Uh with that, I'll turn it over to colleagues.

Chair recognizes Member Santiago Romero.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Just wanted to share briefly that our office is a best practice.

We reach out to the administration to check in on the progress on our ass up at the end of for every budget.

So that's something that I believe every office should do.

Just check in with the administration.

How is that going?

That projects, that that thing that we promised, where are we with making sure that it gets done?

That is it.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Member Santiago Romero.

You draw an interesting point, and it is also in our hands.

We take the same practice.

Chair recognizes member vice chair, yeah.

Yeah, uh, exit report as always.

I'm just amazed at all your reports, and I appreciate your work.

Um I just wanted to say uh in everybody's work as well.

I I didn't know that was your daughter back there.

Oh, okay, okay, Ms.

Nothing on me there.

Uh but exit work.

Uh I just wanted to say um only four only four appropriations, 2.7% of the 147% went to surplus.

Why should we have more go to surplus?

Is it just because it came out of the general funds or that's where it goes originally?

Yes, uh, through the chair.

Uh there are a number of items that will not go to general fund surplus.

Uh one because they're not general, you know, they could be non-general fund items.

Uh we some items that came through uh council, the administration had uh agreed in their closing resolution to balance for it or bring forward those items.

Uh again, capital is not one of those um um items that's normally not budgeted in general fund.

Um so it is in a separate fund.

So if it's a non-general fund item, it will balance forward.

It's in the general fund, it has the possibility of moving into uh surplus if there are any remaining balances at the end of the fiscal year.

And that's constant, right?

That's not that's not depending upon economic situations or things of that nature, right?

That is a constant rule.

That is that money goes back to where it came from.

It's not spent on these things.

And that would have to be something that we would have to change in council in order to make the difference.

The reason why I'm saying that is because I'm really concerned about the economic conditions right now in terms of what's going on in the city.

I hopefully, but I'm concerned about the fact that the feds are that the government is shut down.

That's 13% of our budget.

And so it's like if we're not gonna spend money on items, I personally would like to see as much money as we possibly can go into our budget stabilization fund or go to you know the retiree protection fund or something where we can be fiscally as fiscally prudent as you possibly can to prepare for what I see covered all the horizon.

And so I just want to know are do are do is there did the budget account for that?

Because I believe the budget is the breathing, leaving breathing documents.

So does it account for that, or is it just strictly stops spit here, it goes there and that's it?

Through the chair.

So one of the processes for year in is that um the OCFO comes to us and they're uh addressing deficits.

And so when they're looking at accounts, if there is a surplus within the uh appropriation, um for one class center, they're fixing uh that activity by moving uh surplus funds uh to other areas to cover cover deficits.

Okay.

If they're crossing appropriations, then they come to council with a year-in resolution asking for permission to do certain activities.

And in that uh resolution, they also note what may uh be balanced forward, the accounts that they're gonna balance forward, the ones that uh the deficits they are fixing and where they're transferring some surplus activities to fix those deficits.

Okay, thank you.

I appreciate that.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Thank you.

And finally, one of the last things that I will add, uh, because I don't want to sound like it's getting we're beating up the administration as well.

Uh when you put that number out there, 80% of those projects that have been rolled out, that's that's a significant number.

Um, when we talk about 80 percent.

I will also be remiss if I didn't mention uh again, uh not trying to sound like um uh the the just a voice of reason.

It is also important as council members uh to member Santiago Romero's point.

Uh you have to make sure you follow up with your projects.

Um and I do I will say the administration has come to us oftentimes for projects or programs that we have established and they have asked us and for a great example is serve Detroit and the snow removal project.

Uh how would we want that rolled out?

Uh and then we find a way to meet based off of the capacity that they have to roll that program out and develop and build that program out.

Um I think it's important and to any future council members that may be listening.

It's a it's important to have that follow-up uh also put not just establish our idea, put money behind it, but also see it followed through to ensure that it gets implemented in the way that you attend it uh to be uh implemented.

Okay.

Uh Mr.

Chairman.

Oh, I'm sorry, just want to follow up on that and say that the Cuban communication is the key.

Yes, that dialogue that has to go, you know, between the council offices to directing your wishes and uh for the departments if they've uh finding challenges carrying out your wishes to kind of lay that on the table and uh uh collaborate on how um to approach it.

And if it's something that can't be done, then look at reprogramming the funds to for you know better purpose or a different purpose.

Uh-huh.

Yes.

And if I can say one more thing, I like to thank uh Victory Corley uh for assisting with this project, and I'd like to thank Urb Corley for his leadership and the departments for sitting down and just determining the status, not only of these appropriations, but the closing resolution activity too, um, and you know, getting back to us with their uh comments.

Uh and I will just say thank you.

Thank you to Ms.

Corley, thank you to Mr.

Corley, as well as Ms.

Barcliff, your entire team.

Um again, not an easy process uh to track all closing resolutions to track all things that council members have put in the budget, particularly over these last three to four years.

Uh and uh that does not go unnoticed by us that it takes a significant amount of time and effort to do that.

Thank you so much for your diligence.

So you we enjoy the reports, very eye-opening, and that helps us get better.

Uh both sides, the the legislative branch and our executive branch.

So thank you so much.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

And so, members, uh seeing no other questions, is there a motion to send line item uh actually to LPD?

This is uh for a resolution of authorization, but I would assume this is just a report that can be receiving filed.

Is that correct?

No authorization needed or no resolution to come after this.

I have not seen no resolution, Mr.

Chair, just uh receive and file.

Okay, thank you.

Is there a motion to receive and file line item 6.4?

Motion hearing no objections, that action shall be taken.

That brings us to the end of our agenda.

Member reports, Chair recognizes Member Santiago Romero.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Just want to remind everyone that you can vote starting today.

You can vote early from now until November 2nd, this Sunday.

And please go out to vote if you can't make it early on Tuesday.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Member Santiago Romero.

Chair recognizes the honor, honorable member vice chair.

Yeah.

Ditto.

All right.

And for me, yes, you hear three times.

Get out and vote.

That is coming up Tuesday.

You can actually vote early.

Now, get out uh and vote.

You cannot complain that your voice is not heard if you do not open your mouth.

Uh so please uh get out and participate uh in the process that helps make the city better.

Choose your leaders.

Uh, with that, seeing no other business to come before this committee, the budget finance and audit standing committee will stand adjourned at the call of the chair without objection.