Finance and order standard committee of Wednesday, May 6, 2026 to order.

Or the clerk please call the roll.

Councilmember Denzel Anto McCampbell.

Present.

Councilmember Letitia Johnson.

Present.

Councilmember Mary Waters.

President.

Mr.

Chair, you have a coin present.

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

That moves on to the approval of the minutes.

Members of the committee should have received a copy of the minutes.

And with that, is there a motion to approve?

Motion.

It's been a motion to approve the minutes.

See no objections.

The minister stand approved.

That'll move us on to chair remarks.

I do not have chair remarks today.

We'll open public comment.

A request for public comment will close at 10 p.m.

Um you have two minutes for your public comments.

Seeing no folks in the room with us in person right now, we'll move over to those joining us virtually.

If you are on Zoom or participating remotely, please use the raise hand feature, and you will be called in order.

Who do we have on Zoom now?

Good afternoon, Mr.

Chair.

As of right now, we have 10 hands raised.

And our first caller is Owner Papa.

Ms.

Hughes, good afternoon.

You have two minutes.

Are you there?

Good afternoon.

Good afternoon.

And through the chair, may I be her?

Yes, you may, good afternoon.

Today we have the revenue discussion.

And I would like for you to take a look at the the uh the general fund um revenue estimates that have looked worse and worse.

This this body that sits here today, along with the mayor who was in, you know, has been president, and even the president before city council president before that city council president.

We see our funds dwindling.

We need certain things.

We have funds that come from uh we have extra surplus taxes that we can't use for anything that we need, but we can plug corporate taxes that we have supplemented for many many years, but we we can't take our money, and this is our money, and uh you you know it's not coming from the government or it's not coming from the state.

This is our money, and we should be allowed to spend our money for things that we need, not to then support other things that um the organizations need because that is not our problem.

Our problem is that in district seven, we have no rec center.

We can build one.

We don't need to wait on philanthropy to do what we can do for ourselves.

And I'm a little tired of you telling us that we need to go beg somebody else while we're giving people like Sheila Cockroach's area, Corktown, white folks, huge discounts in their taxes that are that is dwindling the general fund.

And then and then we get we get we also get what we call um user utility tax.

We got 20 million dollars that we gave to authority to pay off their bonds or pay pay down their bonds.

I'm I'm tired of it.

And so now it's time for someone else to step in.

It's time for the federal government to come in, it's time for someone else to take over what you guys are doing because you're doing a horrible job, and we got holes all over the city.

Thank you, next speaker.

Our next speaker is William M.

Davis.

Commissioner Davis, good afternoon.

You have two minutes.

Uh good afternoon, could that hurt me heard?

Yes, you may.

You know, not that definitely need to do more to help the city of Detroit retirees, but I think you need to do more to help the average city of Detroit worker inside the resident inside the city of Detroit.

Now, far too often it appears as if most of the best paying jobs go to people who don't live in the city.

Um, you should also do a report on how many appointees actually live in the city, especially we have some uh high price city detroit appointees that don't live in the city.

I mean, especially people making over 100,000 a year.

And you know, like right now, looking at the police department.

75% of the rank and five police officers don't live inside the city of Detroit.

85% of the command staff don't live inside the city of Detroit.

I think a greater effort should be made to encourage, not for us, but to encourage more of our appointees to live inside the city, more of our rank and file workers, and especially the executive people to live inside the city.

You know, I've been living inside the city longer than you've been living, young man.

And I I think that we missed some of the glory days from Colin Young was mayor, in that we did have residency, and uh we did was able to circulate more of our dollars.

A greater effort needed to be made to circulate more of our dollars inside the city of Detroit.

Of course, it would also be beneficial and helpful if we had more uh places in the city church to spend our money more major supermarkets, you know, major uh facilities, you know, major uh recreation for young families.

My family is old now, but you know, for things that we help to spend some of our money in the city and try to get more of our revenue sharing that we've lost.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next speaker.

The next speaker, Mr.

Chair, is Blackbag.

Mr.

Crawley, good afternoon.

You have two minutes.

Yo, Mrs.

McCampbell.

You are the district seven representative for the city of Detroit.

The two individuals on that committee which you were cheated into office by Janice M.

Wimfri.

I say that wholeheartedly and emphatically because it's the truth, and the truth is the truth.

Now I made my announcement today via social media of my intent to run for the District Three, Michigan Senate seat.

The reason why I deter to get that tag removed off Nini's mama is because she didn't shoot herself.

And Nini asked for some help.

Now y'all stood in the way.

So now all y'all gotta go.

But I can definitely prove since 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2024.

Right now, there are six affidavits in federal court of voters who show up on the voting rolls who swear up and down they never voted.

The first confirmed case is John Fitzero Kennedy the third.

Yo, Yogi, he don't vote.

He ain't never voted, ain't never registered to vote, but he shows up on the voting rolls 20, 20, 20, 22, and 2024.

The February 27th presidential primary election, and now Detroit is embrailed in the international ST ballot fraud scam.

Y'all busted.

It's up.

And I'm rule.

Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

The next speaker is Jante Smith.

Mr.

Smith, good afternoon.

You have two minutes.

Okay, let's add him to the bottom of the queue and go to the next speaker.

The next speaker is Betty A.

Verner.

Miss Varner, good afternoon.

You have two minutes.

Good afternoon to all within the sound of my voice.

I'm Betty A.

Barner, president of DeSoda Elsewhere Black Association.

This afternoon, advocating for seniors and people who are disabled.

I continue to uh bring this information because there are seniors and people who are disabled who are in need of these services, and they're not getting the information.

I was one of those people.

The Lord bless me to have all of the services that I need in my home.

And I said I must share.

So again, there's a lovely lady named Deborah A.

Royal.

Her telephone number is 313484808.

She has multiple programs under her umbrella.

Some you need Medicaid, some you don't.

I am in a program called Helping Hands.

You don't have to have Medicaid for this program.

And what is so unique, it assists the caregiver and the one who needs the care, which would be me in my case.

And they are people who come in, they would do the laundry, they will do chores, they assist to help your caregiver get a break.

The caregiver can have uh events that are free that they are invited to, get the nails done, uh the feet done, a predictor, all is free.

And your loved ones need a break.

So again, please call 313 484 3804.

If you don't need this information, please share.

And back to my think of corridor.

We're still in need of money for our corridor.

We are a full desert.

Thank you.

Thank you, Miss Von.

Thank you for the information as well.

Next speaker.

The next speaker is Mr.

Foster.

Mr.

Foster, good afternoon.

You have two minutes.

Oh, good afternoon through the chair, a couple of things.

Um this is a new administration, a couple of new council members.

I think that is an imperative that you guys start to change the trends here.

And you can start to change it by doing quarterly audits.

You don't have to wait on the regular audit, do audits on your programs and on your funds to ensure that they're best utilized and going to the community.

I want to just say the decisions that's been made in the past, they're done.

Right.

I could criticize them all day, but that won't bring any value to moving forward.

And so I try to bring solutions to move forward with things, as well as a little bit of chastisement from a citizen's perspective.

No, um I just want to just say this.

This budget that the city has is a 2.4, 2.7 billion dollar budget now a year.

If we just multiply that by 10, 10 years, that's 27 billion dollars.

Like we have to be able to visually see these things, to tangibly see these things.

So we can't just go around and keep praising things and having a blind eye to what's really that's a lot of money that's going on for our citizens to have the same complaints, to have the same issues, to not have the repairs, to not have the assistance to get on their own, right?

It's unacceptable.

This is a budget and audit committee.

I respectfully ask you all to audit all of these programs, see what's needed, what's being productive, what has it been, and replace those things, right?

We have to see the results of every dime, federal, state, or local dime that's allocated for our communities and neighborhoods.

Thank you, Mr.

Foster.

Our next speaker.

Bless you, man.

Okay, well, member Denzel since you're the vice chair of the public health and safety committee.

Please investigate why the city or whoever already cut down the trees at 129 Parkhurst for the ill-advised solar plan when they don't have full title to the property yet.

That seems like major corruption.

Also, I've been asking, and can I get an answer out of BC about whether people are allowed to put plywood on their buildings to board it up?

Because I've already gotten a vacant building certificate with plywood on the windows.

Now the land bank's trying to take my property in their legal nuisance abatement program and is telling me I can't have boards on the windows.

Yet the favorite developers, like the people who want to build Northern Landing, they got houses boarded up with plywood peeling, paint debris in the yard.

One of them has been open to trespass since at least August of 2023, but no vacant building certificate.

Nobody does anything to them.

So we need clarity.

5.18 media services.

I have a 26-day FOIA request request.

It's 26 days overdue.

And the uh law department Amanda Kelly is not answering me, saying she's waiting for media services.

Media services should have the recordings I'm requesting, cataloged and should be right there.

I shouldn't have to search like a needle through a haystack on YouTube where I cannot find these things.

The Department of Elections.

Somebody told some lies about me, and Mr.

Tate, who's now on the election commission is refusing to investigate the lies that were told about me.

So personally, I hope the feds come read the ballots.

Because we're not getting any help locally.

Also, the Office of Inspector General is refusing to do its job by refusing to investigate a complaint of fraud, giving some hubabubba that doesn't even exist in the Detroit City Charter.

And now the lady's ghosting me.

The health department is not providing any mental health services, as far as I know.

And Plan Detroit has been atrocious and non-inclusive.

And that really has to be redone.

Thank you, Ms.

Wark.

Uh, we will follow up with you on the plywood and uh FOIA request um to check into that.

Thank you.

Uh, next speaker.

Next speaker is uh phone number ending in one two four.

Phone number in there in one two four.

Good afternoon, you have two minutes.

Phone number ended in one two four.

I think that might be uh Ms.

Ward.

Hello.

All right, next speaker.

The next speaker is Tyson Gersh.

Mr.

Gersh, good afternoon.

You have two minutes.

Hi, thanks.

Can you hear me?

Yes, we can.

Thanks.

Um I've been saying this for a while, and it really seems to be a core issue in the city.

Um the way that our departments spend money and the way they make money has got to be more transparent.

Um, sort of window end of this relates to the BZA, but I think that this is an issue across city departments, and I think it's a problem that we've previously solved, and then we threw the solution away.

So as it relates to the BZA, right?

Like we've been going on and on and on about these transcripts, which are uh publicly funded through city council's appropriation, um, specifically to the contracts and professional services budget, which is like over a hundred grand a year, and it covers both the board member stipends and also the court reporting costs, which includes transcript costs, because as I've discussed ad nauseum, um, are inseparable from the court reporter appearance, from the 20-something services that remote legal provides because it's all part of one inclusive contract.

Um, but city council kind of keeps asking the BZA about these transcripts, and the BZA is like, oh, we don't get the transcripts, but they literally do, and you guys appropriate funds for them, but because we're not looking at the the budget reports to see the actual line item level data, right?

Like this thing, everybody's allowed to pretend like they don't know what's going on and there's no actual accountability.

Um, open checkbook Detroit.

Like we solved this problem, you know.

Like you could just see every dollar that every department spent, and these are public funds being spent, like it should be transparent.

Why are we like regressing in transparency as a city?

Um, why can't we bring that back?

We already developed the platform for it, just reactivate it.

Thank you, Mr.

Gersh.

And I believe you are uh we have a meeting with my office on yourself this week.

So we'll dive deeper.

Thank you.

Next speaker.

And the last speaker is Judante Smith.

Mr.

Smith, do you want to come up for your public comment?

Good afternoon.

You have two minutes.

Good afternoon.

Uh I want to clarify something I said earlier.

So I didn't want to make anything negative towards uh Gabriela Santiago Romero's office.

Her chief of staff was really, really nice.

Uh, you also have another uh good chief of staff, uh Mr.

McCampb.

I want to talk about a few things.

451 East Grand Boulevard has an NEZ new inter uh neighborhood enterprise zone, which it seems to be some of these on the agenda.

Nicole Curtis is owned this property through LLC for nine years, and she has made no renovations.

There's no shingles on the roof, no windows.

Uh, and there are that the front porch is fallen down, the backyard is a four.

She also has boards on her windows, and we seem to have no real uh accountability for that.

Also, I was spoke to Arthur Rush and he told me that this matter has been related to the law department.

I want to make sure that is accurate because it seems like there's been no enforcement.

Also, I'll have a meeting with Winnie Lau in a few minutes here to talk about some of the issues that we have in the city.

So I want to talk about the connectivity between departments, like say if a house is torn down in the city of Detroit and you buy it through the Wayne County Treasurer or whatever entity, um, they still charge you as a house, even if you have the documents to prove that you have a vacant lot, they'll charge you as a house.

So the assessor's office over assessments, um, things like the law department and the FOIA's that don't get answered on time from other departments.

The fact that I have to walk through this building through several floors all day long to get action because I have to go to four and I have to go to eight and I have to go to nine, or I have to go to eleven, I have to come to all these different floors to get anything done.

Also, uh I I do stand with uh with Joanne about the land bank not operating properly.

Um personally, I have asked for a couple properties to be nuisance abated only because uh we have no real recourse in the city of Detroit to hold landowners accountable.

The land bank is not the option for that, I don't believe either though.

Like I did ask for the land bank to be disbanded.

I asked for this body to hold the budget back to to disband the land bank.

Also, uh I want to give a shout out to Councilmember Johnson.

I appreciate your responsiveness.

I talked to Perry Columbus Jenkins earlier and he said that you stopped by you mentioned me, I appreciate that.

And I appreciate some of the things you're doing also on the Whittier quarter.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Smith.

And I I agree on the conversation about connectivity and making sure that folks don't have to go floor to floor.

Um I know you that's a broader conversation, but if there is some issues with FOIA, um as well let us know so we can check into that.

All right.

Uh does that bring us to the end of public comment?

All right.

Um just it was also mentioned uh Mr.

Foster on the budget and follow-up.

Definitely want to make sure we do follow up on budget items to make sure that they are being carried out in the way that they should.

Um, if there are particular programs or services that you want us to look into, definitely let us know.

And um Commissioner Davis on the more appointees and rate can file being in the city.

We'll heartily agree.

Um I I know by law we can't force that.

I hope that that changes at some point, but um I agree that we should have more folks in the city.

Any other feedback from members?

All right.

Uh that'll move us on to the agenda to unfinished business.

Um, under we'll take up 5.1 and 5.2 um from the office of the chief financial officer, the February 2026 revenue estimated conference report and the fiscal year 2026 to 2035 long-term fiscal forecast report for legacy pension plans and debt obligations.

Is there a motion to discuss?

There's been a motion to discuss line items 5.1 and 5.2.

Um, and I know we have folks from the admin joining us at the table.

Good afternoon.

If you could just state your name uh for the record.

Good afternoon.

I'm Valeria Goli, deputy CFO and treasurer for the city of Detroit.

Hi, my name's Sean Tobin.

I'm the deputy director of strategic finance and analytics in the city of Detroit.

Good afternoon.

I'm Eric Mooney.

I'm the senior economist in the Treasury team and OCFL.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for joining us today.

Um, I'll turn the floor over to you.

Uh we do have a presentation.

Uh could we be promoted to share the screen?

Yep.

Yes, who needs the promotion?

Uh me, uh Sean Tobin.

Um just sent a request to oh, I'm so sorry.

There we go.

Apologies for that.

I normally just hit F5, but I think the FN lock uh was set on my keyboard and uh froze up a little bit there.

Apologies.

Um, and thank you for the opportunity to present our revenue estimates for fiscal years 2026 to 2030.

Um, as we already introduced ourselves, I'm joined today by Erica, our senior economist, and Valeria Goli, our deputy CFO and treasurer.

Again, my name is Sean Tobin, uh and I'm the deputy director of strategic finance and analytics under Treasury and uh OCFO.

Uh before we launch too far into this presentation, I'd like to give a little background on our group.

Uh the group behind this report is called the Revenue and Economic Analysis Team, which sits within a larger strategic finance and analytics team in Treasury.

The purpose of this group is to take note on and monitored economic trends to proactively understand and translate potential effects on the city's revenue streams to the CFO, Treasurer, and budget director.

We work in partnership with the University of Michigan, Michigan State University, and Wayne State University for the monitoring and discussion of these trends.

We also integrate a report published by University of Michigan's research seminar in quantitative economics, RSQE, that documents local economic trends into our model of city revenues.

Without reading everything on this slide, um, basically what this shows is that this conference is legally is a legally mandated process per the Home Rule City Act and is a value uh valuable uh to the city's fiscal health.

Um, as an aside, one of the other hats I wear uh is presenting uh to the credit ratings agencies, and um uh this is often cited as a major strength for the city.

Last year, when Detroit received a ratings increase with positive outlook from Moody's, this conference was cited as one of the city's strengths counting towards strong budget management practices.

Uh with that said, just as a reminder, this presentation uh represents our second round of estimates during the current fiscal year 2026, uh, as well as a finalization of our expectations for fiscal year 2027 onward.

Our regular cadence is a preliminary set of estimates discussed in September, with a finalization of our of those estimates in February, uh setting the future fiscal year's budget.

So this year was 2027.

Uh in the next few slides, I'll give a very high overview on how our estimates stand as of the February REC.

I know you guys just went through the budget process, so we won't spend a ton of time on that.

Um, and then we'll spend some time uh briefly reviewing some economic trends as discussed in RSQE's report.

And then after that, I'll kick it over to Erica, who will review some uh more detail on these revenues and bring us to the conclusion of the presentation.

All right, so as I mentioned, uh this conference set the revenues for the fiscal year 27 budget.

Um we anticipate that these revenues will total about 20 2.646 billion dollars with about uh 53% or 1.4 billion to that figure going to the general fund.

Uh the next largest source is the Department of Water and Sewerage with 700 million or about 28 percent uh of the overall number, and then the remainder coming from the other restricted budget being about 510 million, and these are items uh that are built from um other property tax revenues such as the property tax revenues supporting the library, debt service as well as other miscellaneous grants and so on.

Um this slide here basically uh documents what changed in our expectations uh affecting our forecast for February.

Um you can see, you know, hey, we did the city's uh Detroit's fiscal year anal uh annual comprehensive financial report, uh internet activity gaming continued to grow.

Um, and the federal open market committee most recently paused a series of rate cuts and maintained the federal funds at the target rate of three and a half to 3.75%.

Um let me just say that these are kind of a snapshot and time thing.

Um these reminders are our takeaways and bullet points from February, uh, built off of findings from before that.

Um unfortunately we don't have a time machine, so any changes that have transpired since then, such as the Supreme Court decision on tariffs, um, and other stances from the FOMC or the war in Iran have have not been included into these estimates.

Uh we will build another snapshot similar to this in September to capture these items.

Okay, so on to some of the high-level views on the estimates.

This chart depicts the overall change in revenues to the general fund between our September estimates in gray and our current February estimates in green.

We can note that since our September estimate, the actuals for fiscal year 25 ended higher overall, but slightly lower from our recurring standpoint.

Our current estimate for fiscal year 26 has been revised upward, mostly due to increases in the wagering tax expectations.

I'd like to next focus our attention to the set of group bars third from the left.

These depict the shift described above, but focused on fiscal year 2027.

Speaking about these changes since September, our estimates for fiscal year 27 changed mainly by increasing the total general fund revenue by 9.7 million, with most of that coming from recurring.

The largest drivers from a recurring standpoint was a positive shift in expectations linked to the wagering tax and a negative shift in expectations in the state revenue sharing.

Thinking about our expectations and overall growth rate from fiscal year 27 forward, we expect year over year growth between fiscal year 26 and 27 to be relatively flat, but ticking up in fiscal year 28 onward, where we see year over year growth between 2.2 and 2.7%.

Okay.

So these next three slides are gonna focus in on some of the RSQE economics data, and they come from that RSQE team.

The chart before you right now depicts two trends reflecting employment in the city and Detroit's economy.

The yellow line represents payroll employment, which is the count of wage and salary jobs physically located in the city.

The blue line represents the number of employed Detroit residents, whether they work inside or outside the city, including those Detroiters who are self-employed, which the yellow line would not capture.

Top line findings from this chart.

For payroll, Detroit lost nearly 7,400 jobs in January 2025, then regained just about all but 500 of those in February 2025.

Those temporary job losses were concentrated in manufacturing, but as Gabe said in our conference in February, they couldn't really tie it to any specific announcement or temporary layoff.

And the main takeaway here is that the line stayed relatively flat to the end of the data set, hovering right around 235,000 jobs.

For resident, the data has been a little bit bumpy and noisy.

In November 2025, this figure was down by about 1,000 residents compared to the previous November, but by December, it actually stood up to a positive 1,000 residents year over year.

We expect the data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics will continue to be noisy over the next few releases, stemming from the government shutdown last fall.

Broadly speaking, we interpret the findings as hovering right around the 2020 2019 pre-pandemic level.

Okay, so what this chart does is it breaks the employment in the city into three separate industry groups, and it also benchmarks these to quarter one 2020 at 100.

So roughly speaking, you can interpret this chart as a percent change since quarter one 2020.

In the blue line, we have the blue-collar industry group, which comprises mining, construction, manufacturing, wholesale trade, transportation, warehousing, and utilities.

And RSQ estimates that this decreased by about 1,300 jobs in quarter three, 2024, as GM's Factory Zero began its transition to one shift with roughly 1,200 layoffs.

Oh I think I misspoke there, quarter four, 2025.

All throughout the forecast, employment in this blue-collar industries by 2030 is expected to regain levels last seen in 2024, which is 12% above the pre-pandemic level.

In the yellow line, we have higher education attainment services, which includes public and private education, health care, finance, information, and most business services in public administration.

Overall, we see slightly more tepid growth in this category.

During calendar year 2024, this group added 1,400 jobs, which was the first annual gain since 2019, and is expected to end the forecast about 1.4% below the pre-pandemic level by 2030.

And then last is the green line, which represents lower educational attainment services, including retail trade, leisure, leisure and hospitality, administrative and business support services, as well as some other services.

These industries were the hardest hit by the pandemic, but continue completed their recovery in quarter three, 2022.

Since then, employment in this group has largely treaded water, posting a net game of just 100 jobs from quarter three 2022 to quarter one, 2025.

All in all, um RSQ expects that this group will return to growth, ending the forecast in 2030 5% higher than the pre-pandemic level.

Um then this last chart shows the uh average annual wage and salary income earned by workers at establishment in Detroit and Michigan in the yellow and blue lines respectively.

And then the green line shows uh the average wage and salary income of Detroit residents, which RSQE calculates from the American Community Survey.

There are some uncomfortable findings in this chart.

On one hand, it does show that jobs in the city pay higher wages on average than jobs statewide from 2010 to 2019, city jobs paid on average 23% higher than the statewide average.

Um Detroit residents, however, tend to earn much less than what jobs located within the Sydney City's boundaries pay.

Over 2010 to 2019, jobs located within Detroit paid more than twice as much on average compared to wages and salaries of Detroit's employed residents.

While this gap does exist, RSQE notes that there are some wage compression happening, and Detroit residents are catching up slowly to the other two measures.

Nominal wage at jobs located in Detroit, which is going to be those payroll jobs I mentioned earlier, registered a healthy 4.3% growth in 2024.

Meanwhile, after strong average wage growth of 7.8% in 2023, Detroit residents uh wages eked out only 0.9% increase in 2024.

RSQ estimates that in 2025 payroll wage growth decelerated to 3.7%, while uh Detroit resident wage growth accelerated to 5.2%.

Uh both of these outpace the 3% finding for statewide growth.

Um Detroit wages are projected to see moderate growth in the forecast.

Wage growth at jobs located in the city averages 3.2% per year from 2026 to 2030, slightly ahead of the statewide pace of 3%.

Then what wages of city residents grow by 3.8% per year on average.

So the highest growth rate of the three in the forecast years, uh, but will remain well below the state statewide level throughout the forecast.

Um those were all nominal wages.

So there's a uh the small difference in nominal wages translate to a meaningful difference after adjusting for inflation.

While average real wages for payroll jobs located in the city and statewide rise about 2.5% between 2019 and 2020 after accounting for inflation.

Uh Detroit's uh resident Detroit residents' real wages will improve by 7.4% over the same time period.

Um this is expected to incrementally close the the gap between what Detroit residents earn compared to the other two groups.

Um with that, I will kick it over to Erica.

Hello, good afternoon again.

I'm Eric Mooney, senior economist uh for the Treasury team.

So now we're gonna talk about the the major revenues.

So what Sean reviewed was um charts of very important employment data as well as wage data.

And so what we do uh in our process is from there, we'll take those numbers and we'll put those numbers into our income tax forecast for withholding.

So that's kind of the connection there.

Um so on this chart, we'll we'll start with income tax, which is one of the five major revenues for the city.

Um, and most of this is made up from withholding.

So that's why those trends that Sean mentioned earlier are extremely important for us to understand, especially when it comes to an industry breakdown and where the growth is happening and where you know we might see some falls in unemployment or wages.

Um in fiscal year 25, about 90% of income tax was withholding.

So again, quite a large chunk of our revenue in the general fund.

Um so just to reiterate, we analyze uh payroll and resident employment and wages along with the year-to-date monthly data.

Um, and aside from withholding income tax, also includes uh individual, corporate uh partnership, uh tax compliance, and refund activity.

So that's our largest one.

That's the income tax.

Second major revenue uh that I want to review is the wagering tax.

Um, this is the tax from the casinos in the city.

Um it's generally from retail and internet gaming.

Um this also includes sports betting.

Uh the casinos are all taxed the same way, although they do vary in magnitude of activity.

The main input for our forecast is adjusted gross receipt activity that's published monthly by the Michigan Gaming Control Board.

So that's public data.

If anyone is really interested, I encourage you to go look at it.

Once a month, we'll I'll go to that website and pull that data and uh very insightful.

The next one that I want to talk about is state revenue sharing.

State revenue sharing is made up of two categories so constitutional and statutory.

Statutory represents about 70% of our total state revenue sharing.

And it's calculated based on, oh sorry, constitutional is based on population and state sales tax.

Statutory is determined by the state state's budget process and is a percent of the previous year's total.

So what they'll say is you know, you'll get no change, so 0% change year over year, a 1% bump, a 2% bump, something like that.

That's what it might look like.

So how we track that is we'll monitor the state's uh revenue conferences.

So they do something similar to what we do once in January and then again in May.

So it's coming up on May 15.

Uh and they also post their monthly payment schedule on their website.

So we just monitor that to make sure we are aware of any big changes on their end.

Uh next to review uh property tax that's collected via the summer and winter tax bills for the most part, and represents the the 19 about mills levied for the general city.

Uh property tax also includes delinquent collections from the county, TIFF distributions, and special act revenue.

So those are all within that that orange bar on the graph there.

Uh and then the last what we call major revenues is the utility users tax, which is also abbreviated to UUT.

And it's the 5% tax on consumption of natural gas, electricity, steam, and telephone services.

For this revenue stream, although it's the smallest, sometimes it does give me the most headache because it is largely affected by demand uh anything that affects demand for utilities.

So things like pricing, uh global trade uh snafues or conflicts, um, and then uh the weather, and as we can tell, weather in Michigan is uh pretty notorious for changing year over year.

So, but those are some things that we we do monitor uh in between conferences on a monthly basis.

All right, next slide, please.

Thank you.

Um so this slide will show our recurring other revenues that are in the general fund.

So within the general fund, we have the the five majors that represent most of the revenue, but then we also have some other revenues included on this chart.

Uh some of those include uh court fees, the casino municipal service fee, EMS fees, uh, and parking collections.

Just to name a few.

All right, next slide, please.

Thank you very much.

Um, if we put uh the two slides that I just presented on together in one, um that's what this slide shows here.

So the major revenues are in green, and then the other revenues are shown in blue.

And so that gives us a nice picture of what the general fund revenue expectations are going to look like year over year.

Umnually, and and that's the case in this most updated forecast.

Um, you know, in the in a time of a lot of uncertainty, it's good to see that there is there's steady increases throughout the forecast window.

So that gives me that gives me a lot of confidence, so that's good.

Next slide, please.

Thank you.

Okay, so this is our non-general fund uh slide, and so all of the revenues here are not going to be within the general fund, they will be in other funds across the city.

Um, and so some of these include uh water and sewerage, uh, any grants, um, DDOT, uh debt service, just to name a few.

Um, and then the revenues here are more restricted when it comes to spending than what we saw on the general fund side.

So that's kind of why we like to split it up that way.

Um, these revenues are also expected to grow about 2% annually.

We have some expectations, um exceptions, excuse me, here and there, um, but for the most part, it is about 2%.

Next slide, please.

Thank you.

Um, we always like to show this slide too as the the budget reserve or the rainy day fund.

Um, so by state law, the city is required to keep a 5% ready day fund, which is represented by that yellow line there.

Um, and then as you can see, the minimum reserve has been met for quite some time there and has remained steady at about 150 million.

Next slide, please.

So we always like to end and review uh any risks and uh potential upside.

So we talk about the good and the bad in terms of the revenues uh for the city.

So we've listed a few here.

I will highlight a couple, but I just want to reiterate uh what Sean said earlier that this was made as of uh February and then a couple weeks before that, so that we have time to finalize all of our materials.

Um here.

However, if we would like to have those discussions, I'm more than happy to.

So we'll highlight a couple on here and then we can we can move on to to questions.

Um so on the downside on the left side there, I'd like to highlight the first one uncertainty and unpredictability to employment and personal income from federal trade and fiscal policy, uh, as well as the third one.

So lower state revenue sharing from reduction in state sales tax collections.

Um that that's a an orange flag, so to speak, on my end.

So uh on the right side, the upside potential, more cheery topic.

Um incremental employment and property tax uh from development initiatives.

Uh so one of the policies that we have maintained as part of the revenue conference is that we don't include any developments that have not officially started.

So anything that you hear in the news or anything like that that hasn't started any of those big projects will not be included in the forecast as of now.

I'll highlight the third one on the upside potential as well.

So increased individual and corporate tax compliance.

Um so we're seeing a little bit of upside in in that regard year to date, um, but April is gonna be kind of a big month for that activity.

So that will come out um in a couple of weeks here.

That will be available soon.

Okay.

I just want to say again, thank you very much.

It is an honor to always present to this group.

Um, and so we normally present after the February conference and after the September conference, but I'd like to uh welcome any questions that you might have, and hopefully we can give you some great answers.

Well, thank you.

Thank you all so much.

I know we had a little bit of this conversation during the broad budget process as well.

Um, and and folks had questions about we'll open up um to members on the committee to see if they have any additional ones.

You have an advice, Chair Johnson.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh thank you all for the presentation.

I do have a couple of questions.

Mr.

Tobin, you um talked about the um I guess pay wages for um residents and in comparison to the wages for city jobs, I believe.

Um I'm wondering if you can share what industry, the higher paying jobs are um just to give some some thoughts around making sure that job training um is providing access to Detroiters uh to be able to move into those higher wage-paying jobs.

I'll take that one if you need.

I was gonna say you can also take that one if you want.

If you want, go ahead.

Uh Eric was gonna take it.

Yeah, so we have um two.

So one of the industries um when you in regards to higher pay is going to be a little bit skewed.

It's the management of companies.

Um, so as you can imagine, that that roles in that industry would probably be the highest.

Um, and then after that, we have uh finance and insurance.

So there are a couple other ones, um, but those are traditionally the highest uh when it comes to uh wages in particular.

Hey, thank you.

Go ahead.

Sorry, uh through the chair to add a little bit on to what Erica was saying.

In the back of that RSQE report, they do have tables uh listing out wages um by the various industries.

So if you want to uh look into how all of those stack up, uh that data is available.

Thank you.

I will certainly do that with my team.

Um the other question I have was in regards to the income tax um collection.

So in fiscal year 26, we saw the reduction because of the changes within the federal administration.

Um in fiscal year 27, we see um income tax revenue being more in alignment with prior years with steady increases.

Can you all help to explain what how you attribute the decline in in 26 and then 27 being back in alignment with prior years?

Yeah.

Yeah, so um there's a couple things happening below the surface there.

Um withholding is definitely increasing year over year, it has been doing better.

The big item that went down uh was the corporate income tax item.

Um we revised our estimates down.

Um what we can say is that what we're seeing in current um current estimates or uh actual data now is that um our um forecast was a little on the conservative side, so our expectations as of September um are uh being outpaced by the actuals.

However, I will say that even compared to where we were last year, the corporate line specifically is still below uh what we had uh been taking in.

Um so it's there's a couple different steps there.

Um it's something that we're monitoring very closely.

Okay, thank you for that.

So um as it relates to fiscal year 27, though, um you see the uh corporate income tax revenue collect or I shouldn't say collection, but the corporate income income tax revenue still stay in pace with prior years prior to the federal administration's um changes to the tax code.

Um we uh fiscal year 27 represents the first year where we're expecting an increase in the base uh compared to where we had kept it flat for our revised expectations for fiscal year 26.

Um to um yeah, Valerie.

And um through the chair, I just want to also give context, and I'm looking right now at our estimates for income tax in February 2025 compared to the revised estimates in February 2026.

And as I look at, you know, in February 2025, we expected we estimated 455 million in income taxes and revised that for fiscal year 21 to 42 million, and back in February 2025 for fiscal year 26, we had estimated 470 million in February 20.

I'm sorry, that was in February 2025.

In February 2026, that was revised down to 414 million.

So I I just want to say we kind of reset, and so the the increases or you know it's more stable.

And then one of the things too that Sean shared with me, and um is when uh he did the estimate of the one big beautiful bill, he did estimate it over a period of time, and and he sees the impact declining because um you had explained that a lot of the bonus depreciation and the things that you can do 100% are gonna be done right away, and and so that's something else in terms of corporate income tax that we're looking at.

All right, thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

Vice Chair Jonathan, member waters.

Uh thank you, good afternoon.

Um I guess I'm I'm I'm I want to understand where your optimism is as it relates to um what you've identified in in the report, where some of the biggest risk or concerns and maybe include what's happening uh with ourselves on on a national level uh as well and how how that uh affects us.

Sure, go ahead.

Oh, okay.

Okay, through the chair.

Um yeah, thank you.

That is something that we continue to analyze um on pretty much a daily basis as you know, new news articles are coming out.

Um I would say optimism is on the stock market side of things.

So when I'm thinking about the average consumer in Detroit or across the country, these are things that I look at.

Um what are their you know price concerns?

Um obviously, especially in Michigan recently we've had um gasoline prices increasing, uh which has been unique to to this area, um, which comes with its own you know negative effects.

Um I think some optimism can lie in the timing.

So if if these conflicts tend to not go on for years, we could when we're talking about revenues for the city, don't tend to see effects.

Now I'm not saying that that can't happen, right?

Because this is a very unique situation, but um if if these things tend to be more short term, we don't necessarily tend to see a negative effect on revenue.

So that is kind of where my personal optimism is.

Um and then I mean if we're talking about revenue specific items, something like a wagering tax um online uh gaming has been growing consistently.

Um so we've been we've been seeing some growth there.

Um turning over to Mallory.

I'd like to add I'd like to add through the chair.

Um because of events like that that you talk about, one of the um components of our revenue estimating process is there's not a conference in May, but in May we do take another look, especially as we're approaching the end of the fiscal year.

And um Erica will set up meetings with LPD and the Office of the Auditor General, so that if there is something as we look at actuals happening, then we're better able to deal with it.

Okay, all right.

All right, thank you.

That was it, thank you.

Thank you, Member Waters.

I have a couple of questions.

Um I know on the uh Mr.

Tobin, you mentioned for the gap in the Detroit resident income and uh um income of Detroit jobs, and you see that gap closing.

Is there a and and I know the the committee saw that gap closing?

Do we have a uh estimate of the year that they're predicting that that gap will close?

Um to the best of my knowledge, no.

Um it's it's happening very incrementally, very slowly.

Um the forecast currently go only goes out until uh 2030 at the moment.

Um it's it once you start forecasting out local economies, uh, there's a lot of there's a lot of different variables, so it's very hard to say.

And I think RSQE um tends to not want to put um estimates out that far.

Um but it's it's uh it it's good that it's happening.

It it uh at least it's going in the right direction.

For sure.

Thank you for that.

And um my office did submit a memo because we talked to um director Johnson um last week on this topic, um, because I do think there has to be, as Vice Chair Johnson alluded to, there has to be this collective effort where there is around education, where there's around I think also as we're thinking about our economic or jobs economic plan on what are what type of jobs we are attracting here, and making sure that Detroit is do get a hold of those jobs as well.

Um and the other question I want to bring up is on um the corporate income tax, the reserve, um, because there has been questions about that.

Just to be clear, the reserve uh for corporate income tax was created in this fiscal year currently because we had assumed that there would be shortfalls from corporate income tax collection for a myriad of reasons, but one being uh big beautiful bill, is that correct?

Okay.

And this year in the budget, we do not have that reserve currently, correct?

For sorry, for fiscal year 27.

Yes, uh well, that's correct because in the estimates, the revenue estimates for fiscal year 27 that was taken into consideration.

Thank you.

I just wanted to make sure that that was clear for folks, because I know we had questions on that.

Um and then also um on revenue sharing, um, this is something I also bring up quite a bit because we're at the whims of what the legislature will decide to do.

Uh and as you mentioned, um there is a rev uh and yet another revenue estimating conference in May um this month, a couple weeks, uh, or next week, and which would they will use for their budget process, which hopefully will get a on-time budget.

Um I know you all are looking at the numbers in the process, but do we uh ask this every time it comes up, but do we see in the indication where revenue sharing will be in the upcoming state budget, or is it too early to tell you the chair?

Um it's a little bit too early to tell.

Um my kind of gauge on how this is going to go is expectations for state sales tax.

Um I think that's that's a pretty big variable that goes directly into the formula that they use.

Um so when we're talking about things uh like a global conflict, you know, how how is that going to affect um resident and like Michigan resident uh buying behavior?

And so, you know, are the concerns that the average household are those concerns that the average household is seeing, or is that going to translate into less spending, therefore less contribution to state revenue sharing?

So to answer your question, I think it's too early to tell.

Um, but yeah, we'll we'll see on on May 15 what those official numbers will be.

Thank you.

And and net sales tax um aspect goes into the formula for the um is that the constitutionally mandated aspect or is that the statutory or is it both?

Constitutional.

Okay, all right.

Just wanted to make sure I had that yeah, okay.

Thank you.

Um Mr.

Corley, any additional questions.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh good afternoon, city council members.

Uh it's always uh delight for us in the LPD and the Auditor General to work with uh this wonderful team and um and the work with the um budget director when we look at the looking at the revenues, um, we didn't meet with them um before the revenue conferences, and uh it's very fruitful uh for us.

And um, you know, I think that the the big picture is that revenues are flat, you know, going into fiscal 2027.

That's why we went through a somewhat painful budget process, right?

Because the the monies were tight, and so we felt that, you know, going to bud going through the budget process.

Um, and so fortunately, you know, I I think with the impact of the big beautiful bill kind of waning down after 2027, that's gonna help, you know, the increase in corporate income tax revenue, hopefully.

Um, so we can see something.

The positive thing is that we're still seeing some pretty strong um revenue collections in the withholding, um, as was discussed.

I think that's a good sign.

Uh, and we're seeing some increases in wages, you know.

Um, uh, so we that's a good sign.

However, as you say, Mr.

Chair, and I and I read your memo uh to Mr.

Johnson, very very thorough, very insightful memo, by the way.

Um, when it comes to income tax revenue from residents, you know, in the city of Detroit.

That's something that city council I know will be working with the mayor to try to improve that picture.

Um I just have a request, and I I had the same question that council member Johnson had on correct corporate nickname tax.

So I appreciate your question.

Um would like to get a copy of the presentation.

I think it was not shared uh with council members, and so we can get the copy of the presentation, and uh that's it for now.

So thank you so much.

Thank you, Mr.

Corley.

And and yes, I on that aspect of the revenues being flat.

I think also, you know, as has been a robust conversation here at this table and with the administration of other sources of revenues.

I continue to bring this up.

Um since a lot of this falls within the legislature, as residents that are listening, um, to really do let their state legislators know um that there is a need for cities like Detroit to have additional options um when it comes to revenue and and places that we can get that from so we can get the programs and services um that our residents need.

So I'll just uh just end on that.

Um any additional for yes.

Okay, I had just have um one last comment.

So the next thing that will happen uh for us is uh come September, there will be another revenue estimating conference, and that will start the budget process for fiscal year 28.

Uh so that starts as soon as this September, which is gonna be here faster, I think, than I think.

So um, yeah, so that'll be September.

Uh and then the next February conference will set the revenue for the budget in fiscal year uh 28.

So those are those are kind of the next uh presentations that we'll be here for.

Thank you.

I'm looking forward to being here for full budget uh process for the full budget process.

Thank you.

Um and then before we move on, just wanted to note for since we took up 5.2 together.

Is there any additional that folks want to add for the long-term um forecast for legacy pension plans and debt obligations?

Um so that's a requirement that we submit to the financial review commission.

As you probably saw, most of what's in that, um, John Naglik had presented at the um budget hearing for non-departmental capital and debt.

And so um, I don't think there's anything else that needs to be highlighted here unless you have questions.

Any questions from committee members?

I think we're all set there.

What I would say for um the public does listen in, as you mentioned.

If folks do want to uh view that presentation, um it is available going back to the uh budget hearings, and if you have trouble finding it, please reach out to our office um and we can point you in the right direction.

And I took a another look at it, and so it's the budget hearing, it was on April 25th.

If people want to look in the archives on the website, thank you so much for that.

All right that being it, thank you all so much for joining us.

Is there a motion to receive and file 5.1 and 5.2?

Motion.

There's been a motion to receive and file 5.15.2, seeing no objections, that action shall be taken.

That will move us on to 5.3.

Um we do have this report.

It is line on 6.4.

So is there a well?

Let me just this is a memo relative to the request for a report on principal residence exemption for LLC entities.

Is there a motion to receive and file 5.3?

There's been a motion to receive and file 5.3.

Seeing no objections.

That action shall be taken.

Um for 5.4, 5.5, and 5.6.

These have not been yet received.

So is there a motion?

Well, let me is there a motion to bring back 5.4 and 5.6 in one week?

Motion.

It's been a motion to bring back 5.4 and 5.6 in one week.

Seeing no objections, that action shall be taken.

And is there a motion to bring back 5.5 in two weeks?

Just been a motion to bring back 5.5 in two weeks.

Seeing no objections that action shall be taken.

Moving on to 5.7.

This has been received.

Um is there a motion to receive and file 5.7?

Motion.

It's been a motion to receive and file point 5.7.

Seeing no objections that action shall be taken.

Um 5.8 and 5.9 have not been yet received.

So is there a motion to bring this back in one week?

Motion.

Seeing no objections, that action shall be taken.

5.10.

Um we did receive this item.

Um the the answers we did not, they were not very robust answers, so there will be follow-up that's needed here, but we can receive and file 5.10.

Motion.

It's been a motion to receive and file 5.10.

Seeing no objections, that action shall be taken.

Um and moving on to 5.11.

Is there a motion to bring back 5.11 in one week?

Motion.

My motion bring back in one week.

Seeing no objections, that action shall be taken.

Moving through these for items 5.13 through 5.16.

Well, actually, 5.13 through 5.17.

13 through 17.

Is there a motion to receive and file?

Motion.

Seeing no objections, that action shall be taken.

Mr.

Chair.

Yes, madam.

Um vice chair.

Uh point of order.

It looks like you've skipped 5.12.

Okay.

Yes.

All right.

Thank you for that.

Um to 5.12.

Um, this has been received.

Is there a motion to receive and file 5.12?

Motion.

Uh motion to receive and file, seeing no objections, the action shall be taken.

Thank you for that.

Um, so that will bring us on to 5.18, correct?

Thank you.

Thank you, madam clerk.

5.18.

There's been a request to bring this back in two weeks.

Motion to bring back 5.18 two weeks has been made.

Seeing no objections, that action shall be taken.

Um 5.19.

Um has been received.

If there's a motion to receive and file 5.19.

Motion.

There's been a motion to receive and file.

See no objections, that action shall be taken.

Uh 5.20.

We've been asked to bring this back in two weeks.

Motion.

Motion to bring back 5.20 in two weeks.

Seeing no objections, that action shall be taken.

Um, and then 5.21 has been received.

Um to receive and file.

Motion to receive and file 5.21 has been made.

Seeing no objections, that action shall be taken.

And then 5.22 and 5.23.

Is there a motion to bring back in one week?

Motion.

There's been a motion to bring back in one week.

Seeing no objections, the action shall be taken.

That moves us on to new business.

But before we move forward, madam clerk, I want to make sure you're all good with those.

I know I'm going to go.

Do the chair, I am all good.

Thank you.

All right.

Um, so 6.1 is an uh related to the audit of the Detroit Health Department Food Safety Operations.

Uh early communication of audit observations.

We've been asked by the AG to bring this item back in one week.

Motion.

It's been a motion to bring back 6.1 in one week.

Seeing no objections, the action shall be taken.

That moves us on to 6.2.

Um this is from the office of city clerk, city planning commission.

Um resolution uh related to the neighborhood enterprise zone certificate application for the rehabilitation of a vacant duplex at 4151 Dickerson Avenue in the far west side neighborhood enterprise zone.

Is there a motion to discuss?

A motion to discuss 6.2 has been made.

Uh and we have Mr.

Gulach on.

Good afternoon, Mr.

Chair Chris Gulag, CPC uh staff, and we're also joined by I believe the contractor, Richard Fowler, who's on the screen.

Good afternoon.

Good afternoon.

Uh Mr.

Fowler, if you could just state your name for the record.

Uh uh name is Richard Fowler from Midtown Detroit Construction.

Thank you, sir.

Um, Mr.

Gulag, the floor is all yours.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um staff submitted a report and resolution for your consideration.

Um I have a brief slideshow providing the background.

Uh, there's there's two NEZ certificates before you today for review, but this is the first one on Dickerson.

It's at 4151 Dickerson.

It's shown on the red dot on the screen.

It's north of Mac, east of Connor.

Zooming in closer, it's an existing house.

It's a boarded up duplex that's been vacant for a number of years.

I understand it was on the demolition list, but it was rescued from the taken off that list.

You can see there is some vacant land to the north and south, but there are houses on the street as well.

This shows the street view of the the duplex.

Um there's two doors you can see facing the street to board it up, brick house.

And this is confirmed as being in the far east side NEZ, which council created back in September 2020 to 2002.

I think it's the largest NEZ in the city at 452 acres.

So it really stretches all the way from Warren, I think all the way down to uh the river.

Um the petitioner is Carl Davis, uh, who's an area resident trying to stabilize the neighborhood.

Um the site is zoned R2, two family residential.

Mr.

Davis' contractor is Richard Fowler, who's here today.

This is a duplex, it's two stories.

Um records show that Mr.

Davis purchased this from the land bank in November 2025 for $7600, as I stated, and rescued it from the demo list.

So the goal here is to is to rehab the house and then to rent out each of the two units, which the NEZ Act does allow uh developers to do.

Um so they're proposing to invest about 70,000 to 100,000 per unit total.

Um in our report we we provide a breakdown of the repairs, which are numerous.

The roof is about 35,000.

Updated joys two thousand twenty thousand, new plumbing electrical HVAC, 45,000, drywall paint 10,000, rebuild the kitchens 30,000 and rebuild the baths, which is about 10,000.

Uh in our report, we give a table kind of summarizing the work.

Uh there'd be two units, and then each would have two bedrooms, uh, an upstairs and down and an upstairs and downstairs.

Each unit is about 1100 square feet.

As we say, they've it's total about 200,000 invested total.

They do propose to rent these out, um, which the NEZ Act allows, and be the rental rates are proposed to be about 1,150 per unit uh per month.

And the petitioner stated that it's estimated be between 60 and 80 percent AMI.

There is an existing parking lot on the side of the house, which goes to a rear parking pad for parking.

Uh regarding accessibility, uh the developers working with the existing footprint of the property and plans to open up the first floor as much as possible.

But because of the historic design and the steps, it's difficult to make it completely handicapped.

Uh to make it completely accessible.

So, in conclusion, uh Mr.

Chair, the staff confirmed it's in the NEZ zone.

We're recommending approval and a resolution is submitted for your consideration.

And I'm not sure if Mr.

Fowler has any um additional information.

But thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Mr.

Gulag.

Mr.

Fowler, do you have anything to add?

Uh no further information to add at this time.

Thank you.

Um turn over to questions for a committee member waters.

Do you have any questions?

No.

All right, thank you.

Um, just a few on this.

I uh one, I appreciate that this is an effort to um Detroit resident trying to stabilize the neighborhood.

It looks like a beautiful home.

Can't wait to see a finish.

A rehab.

Just a question for you.

Mr.

Fowler, if you could just go through just a brief background of your work in rehabilitation of properties like this.

Started with a uh 54 unit building in D4.

Uh 221 on Pink Street.

Finish that building a couple years ago.

Um that was a gut rehab.

Uh from then we've been working with a lot of small small developers within the area of also in D4, uh, doing gut renovations of quads and duplexes.

Um our goal is basically we come in, we use a lot of returning citizens, a lot of local Detroiters, you know, to keep the price low and do high quality rehabs.

Um so that's what we've been doing.

Been licensed in the state for again about seven, eight years, and uh been pretty successful in that.

Great.

And um glad to hear um that you are employing returning citizens.

Um on the on the workforce question, I know you say you involve a lot of Detroiters.

But how many about what percentage do you think would of the workforce are Detroiters?

Uh for my last job, again, 54 units got renovated.

It was about 98%.

We do not use any subcontractors, we self-perform on everything.

Um, and 90% with Detroit's and that's great.

And I know you said about keeping costs down by our folks paid a living wage on this.

Uh yeah, the ways are between 18 to 25 dollars an hour.

Um, and with that, most of them to be honest with you, actually leave and start their own business.

Um, but yeah.

Yeah, I um okay, Mr.

Uh Fowler, I think also you know would love to connect you with the skill trades task force as well.

Um he stole my thumb.

I thought you wanted to be bitching, but no, it's member waters, you have the floor.

Because I certainly want him to do that, Mr.

Chairman.

Um, because you know, often at those meetings, uh, we have a lot of uh people there, young people there who are looking for work, right?

So if you could come by uh some of those meetings and talk about some of the things that you're doing, that would be um very, very helpful because it would help us to get people gainful employment, you know, as soon as possible.

And that's what this whole thing is all about.

Um I I did want to ask you though about ADA accessibility for this um project.

So the challenge was uh without getting too far into the details of construction code.

Um the space you would need to create a ramp for the front would have be diff would be difficult.

But um, when talking to the owner, they wanted to make sure they maximize the space on the interior, like maximize the bathroom space and kitchen space.

So just in case uh one of the tenants needed that access, uh they would be able to have it.

Um get it to be 100% sexable would be hard.

It would it would be a zoning issue because that ramp would be close to the boundaries of the plot, and um it may not look as pretty as some would like on the front because it'd be like a Z-shaped ramp that would stretch over 50 feet.

Um so that there were some challenges to that, but we would make the interior as as accessible as possible.

All right, well, thank you for that.

And so um, I'm going back to the skill trade piece.

If um we'd like to be able to get you uh the flyer for either for this month or or next month, if you can come by and just talk about what you're doing.

Um is that good?

Sure, yeah.

I I guess I could reach out to your office and get more details if that if that's possible.

I can do that.

Yes, yes.

Uh 313 uh 628 2363.

And um we can we could email you the flyer.

Do you have his email address, Mr.

Chairman?

Um uh member waters, I think Mr.

Gulag, do you have contact information that you can just share with us?

Um I'm sorry, I was can you repeat the question?

Just if you can share Mr.

Fowler's contact information with uh member waters and I.

Uh yes, I can.

Thank you.

Okay, all right, good.

Sounds good.

We we'll uh we'll send you uh the flyer, okay, so that you know.

Sounds great.

Thank you so much.

All right, thank you.

Thank you, Member Warders.

And uh Mr.

Fowler, I know you went into the accessibility, but yeah, as you all are thinking about this, understanding the constraints with the ramp, but I know um even consideration of a lift or anything like that.

But I will say, as you all are um revamping the inside of you know, widen doorways and and accessibility and bathrooms as much as possible would be greatly appreciated for the accessibility.

Um, as I note to folks that are coming before is what it needs these, it makes it easier for um folks with disabilities if if they are seeing homes that have existing accommodations um to when they're looking for housing.

So just wanted to lift those up as well.

Understand we will do our best.

Thank you.

Um with that, that is the end of my questions.

Is there a motion to approve last year for a motion to approve 6.2 and we'll send to a former with the recommendation to approve.

Thank you so much.

That'll move us on to 6.3.

This is a neighborhood enterprise zone certificate application for the construction of two buildings with a total of nine um condo units at 84 Edmund Place Street in the Woodwork Place Crosswinds Enterprise Zone Area.

Is there a motion to discuss?

Mr.

Gulag, the floor is yours.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Chris Gulach with the um City Planning Commission staff, and we're joined by the uh developer online, Mr.

Randy Arnold and his um associate uh Scott Sittner.

They're on the screen now.

Um Mr.

Chair, I have a brief overview.

We submitted a report and resolution for your consideration.

I have a brief uh slideshow.

So yours.

Okay, thank you.

Uh this is uh located at 84 Edmund Place.

It's in uh in the brush park area.

And you can see on the red dot here, it's on the uh south side of Edmund Place.

It's vacant land east of Woodward, fairly close to the uh stadium.

Zooming in closer, you can see the uh vacant parcel with the parking lot in the back with parking pad in the back.

And then here's a picture of the current um property that the Mr.

Arnold has purchased.

Um this is confirmed as being in the um uh frostman's Woodward Place NAZ, which council created back in 1996.

It has about 89 acres.

It's shown as this green uh box in the brush park area to encourage uh rehab and new development.

Um report contains a lot of this information, but I'll try to go through it quickly for you.

Uh the owner and developer is is Randy Arnold, and he can talk uh give more details after.

But uh he was born in Detroit, his family uh relocated to Tennessee when he was young, and for the past 20 years, he's been a developer primarily in the Nashville, Tennessee area.

Uh he plans to move back to Detroit and is proposing several housing projects in and around the city.

Uh he indicates he owns uh currently owns two rental properties in Detroit at affordable rates.

And he has other affordable housing projects um planned for Detroit as well as Highland Park and Downriver.

Um he's indicates uh he's working to employ as many Detroit residents as possible as well.

So I think uh Mr.

House is basically saying this is before you today is a high-end project, but he also has other affordability projects uh in and in and around Detroit that he's hoping to uh work on.

Uh so the site is vacant land and brush park, it's zone plan development as as much of Brush Park.

It's in City Council District 5.

Uh records show that Mr.

Harnell purchased this land in 2025 from Blue Star properties.

Um so here's the site plan.

Uh uh Edmund Places on your the north part of the street here.

So they would be it'd be new construction to be two buildings, which you're allowed to do in Brush Park with the form-based code.

So it'd be one main building uh close to the street and one main another building back at near the rear alley.

Uh in our report, we give a summary of the units.

There's sorry.

Can you still see my screen?

Okay, yeah.

Uh can you still see the screen?

Okay.

Oh, in our report, we give a uh breakdown of the different units.

There's nine units total.

And um, and so the units one these would be condominium units for sale.

And the three of the units would have about 3,800 square feet each, each have three bedrooms.

Cost of building about nine 933,000 and the estimated sale price is 1.5 million.

And then units 456 would be smaller at 1,291 square feet.

Each have two bedrooms, cost to build a little under 500,000, and they'd sell for about 650.

And then seven and nine would be larger, a little over three thousand square feet.

Each would have three bedrooms.

Um also about nine hundred and thirty-three thousand to build and one point three million for sale.

And then lastly, there'd be uh the one unit would be about three thousand with four bedrooms and cost about 945,000 and sell for about three point 1.3 million.

Uh Mr.

Arnold indicated he hopes to use the profits from this project to help fund other affordable projects, as I stated, in and around the city.

Uh, regarding parking, each unit would have um it's indoor and its own indoor uh garage on the first floor.

Uh regarding accessibility, um, because the project has so few units, and the units are three-story walk-ups, neither accessibility accessibility access to the buildings nor elevators are included.

However, the developer indicates units can be customized to accommodate accessibility features.

And then so in conclusion, uh staff confirms it's in the NEZ zone.

Staff is recommending approval.

The resolution's been submitted for your consideration.

And lastly, I do have a couple slides of the proposed uh units.

This is the one building.

This is the larger building, which so there'd be three-story walk-ups.

And then the back the rear of the building and the sides.

And then I believe this is historic area.

I would have to go through um you know the historic district commission review.

And this is the this is the smaller building in the back.

That concludes my uh overview, Mr.

Chair, and thank you.

Yeah, I'll jump in first if that's okay with the uh with the board.

But yes, if both of you could uh introduce yourself and say turn in for the record.

Sure.

My name is Scott Sittner.

I am council project manager and overall consultant for the project and was involved in the acquisition of the properties.

We'll be involved through the project as an overall sort of again, council and general manager of the project.

Thank you.

And I am uh Randy Arnold, uh the developer for the 84 Edmin Place uh project as well.

Thank you.

Uh you may proceed.

And thank you.

I will be relatively brief, um, just a minute or two, and then Randy will take over for most of this.

One of the things that attracts me to this project, and I was born in Detroit.

My father was a physician in Detroit for 60 years, and I own some commercial property in the city.

Is that this is a Detroit-based project?

The contractor, the broker, any engineer we've we've engaged, um, consultants are all Detroit-based people.

When I spoke to Randy initially, we've addressed also with Christopher the importance of using Detroit-based workers for this project.

And Randy is committed to using both the skill trades task force and union labor whenever is available, and that'll be our first priority for this project.

Again, while it's brush park and it's high end, we are still committed to working with any city that availability that is possible to work with us on this project.

Um, our bank is also local too.

Huntington Bank is our preferred lender, and again, our architect was local.

The other issue is accessibility, and as was noted in the previous, we are making these available to be accessible for anybody who wants it to be in such.

And with an open floor plan, we can make kitchens, bathrooms, bedrooms accessible as needed for anybody who wants to purchase the property and needs to be retrofitted.

Our three units with elevators as well.

Yeah, three units doesn't have elevators.

Yeah, and we've worked with our contractor to make sure that the ones that do not have elevators can't be modified to be accessible to anybody who needs such a thing, including additional lighting, hearing impaired, and the like.

Um I'm gonna let Randy address the construction issues and going forward, but we look forward to doing this project in Detroit, and then Randy and I look forward to doing others down the road.

Thank you, Mr.

Sendner.

Um Mr.

Arnold, you have anything to add.

No, uh thank you, Scott.

Thank you, uh panel for taking our time to to look at and um looking to uh answer any questions you guys may have.

Thank you.

Mr.

Sutner, did you uh did you have something else or you're good?

No, I'm I'm fine again, happy to answer any questions over to the general project.

So yeah.

Thank you.

Um all right.

Thank you for that.

Appreciate the additional information and the breakdown.

Um, I'll go to questions for on the committee.

Uh member waters.

Okay.

Um history of development, other places.

Um I've been involved in other in other states.

Oh I've done work in the city, including my own family with my dad's medical practice.

I retrofit it plus some other commercial buildings.

Randy is a general contractor, and I will let him address issues that he's projects he's worked on.

Okay, so so Detroit is the only place that you've done development.

I was part I was asking.

No, no, Nashville, Tennessee.

I've I'm a construction management graduate of Middle Tennessee State University at 2004.

My first job out of college was Pulti Home.

So I've been officially building since 2004.

My company started, my personal company started in 2008.

Uh local custom home builder, land development, you name it, real estate, we've touched it.

Um and again, Detroit is just home.

Uh all of my family outside of my immediate family is still there.

Um I'm a current resident of Brush Park as well.

Um my mom's side is more southwestern Detroit.

My dad's side is all over Detroit.

So we're working with other municipalities, especially with um Highland Park right now on California Street for some affordable things, and also with eCorps in River Roosevelt, Michigan, uh at as well at the time at this time.

Well, I certainly want to thank you for using uh Detroit-based contractors as well.

That is a conversation that we often have here um at this table.

Because we're absolutely every contractor that we've uh our main contractor is DMC Group, they're 20 years in, really local um demolitions, very good uh contractor that we uh and then all of our subcontractors are uh Detroit as well.

All right.

So I so I I want you all to know that I'm quite familiar with Atlan Place.

Those are some expensive homes over there, you know.

Um I wonder who's gonna be able to afford them.

I well, that's why it's not a big area.

You know, brush park is not that big, but but it's not that big, so it's not it's not for it's not for everybody, but it is a beautiful place.

And I think uh compared to what is used to be, I think uh the city's doing a great job, and we're just trying to add to that and bring value to the to the city itself, and then use those uh attributes to go out in areas that is more affordable and uh needs more work and uh uh and and that's what we're looking to do as well.

Uh Mr.

Gulak, do you know if if those other homes over there, because a number of of those homes were renovated, uh have they all sold on Edmund Place?

The the few that were it's about three or four of them, I thought through the chair.

I I'm sorry, I don't I don't know if the the level of vacancy uh on that block.

Okay.

All right, I guess that's something we need to take a look at.

I'll just I was just curious about that because you know the price is so high, and I just wondered if people had if they were occupied uh by now.

So actually, I'll share a little bit on that.

Okay, um, on the other side of the street from our project, there are a number of vacant buildings.

I believe there are three of them.

They're all large buildings, they will end up being developed, and I know some people looking at them.

Projects such as this, more expensive apartments, condominiums, and and the like.

Most of the people that are have those buildings are holding out for higher prices.

And I know that from talking to people and some empirical evidence.

There are owners and developers who are just waiting for the right price to then develop the properties further down the street, more toward the east side, those have been sold and are developed, the historic houses and and are occupied.

Oh, they are okay.

So yeah, there is nothing occupied.

If it's built in one second, please.

So just so to make sure that there is so we're not talking with each other.

Um we if you hear your name called uh to answer, then you can you'll have the floor.

So um back to member waters.

Okay, yeah.

I I would just say those are the ones that I was talking about, the ones that are a little further east, those larger ones.

So thanks for sharing that.

You say they're all occupied.

I appreciate that.

Nope.

I was down there actually two days ago and I saw people walking around doing gardening.

So yes.

Okay, all right.

Then thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Thank you, Member Waters.

Vice Chair Jess.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um, and member waters did start along asking a question along the line of what I was going to ask relative to previous experience, but I'm interested in previous high-end um build experience.

Yes, great, great question.

So our our main product that we we do in uh Nashville, Brentwood, Williamson County, Tennessee.

Uh, for instance, we have a $5.1 million dollar custom home uh under uh that is on for sale.

We have uh our price range usually range between three and seven million in custom homes uh here in uh in Middle Tennessee area, and that's kind of been our basis for the last five to ten years.

Um as the economy here and uh the Wimson County area is a very uh exclusive high-end uh more um acreage area, not so much like a brush park in the city, but more of a uh outskirts of urban area that does very well as far as uh customs and uh uh uh new new uh new single family homes.

Okay, thank you.

And um can you talk a little bit more about the aesthetics of the building itself?

I'm not sure if you're uh using I know you're not gonna use shipping containers at this price point, but can you just share a little bit more about what it'll look like because that area has a lot of historic homes?

Um, Mr.

Gulag did mention that it is in a historic district.

Um, presumably you have to get approved for the aesthetics.

Yes, great, great question.

So uh we have done every check mark to the section of this for our project.

There were probably six meetings that we had to get approved through our historic when we did the zoning, because these are new sizes of buildings as well.

So all of our exterior finishes had to get approved um prior to even this uh part.

So we've done every step uh far as the uh local brush park committee and the historic committee.

So we had to go through both, and those exterior finishes are brick, uh nice James Hardy siding, uh your your TPO roofing.

So all the all the we we've met all the criteria that's needed for the historic and the brush park uh committee.

Awesome.

Thank you for that.

Um I will say that the sizes are impressive.

Uh I have not seen um properties in the city as of late uh being developed at that size.

So uh certainly do appreciate that.

I am interested in in knowing if you all have um applied for any other tax abatements or incentives, or if you are looking to apply for any others.

At the moment, we just the NEZ uh was our only focus at the moment.

We have not uh applied or really uh entertain any other incentives at the moment.

Okay, all right, and I'm not sure if Mr.

Sittner has uh experience with other abatements or incentives.

I I actually do have some experience with tax abatements and brownfield developments and matters like that going back to when I practiced and also in some of my real estate work.

So going forward, Randy and I will discuss that.

But at this point, we're concentrating on the NEZ and the beginning of construction, hopefully very shortly.

All right, very good.

Um my last question is um relative to the price points.

I know that the sizes are considerably larger.

I do see the price points.

I'm wondering if it if the prices are competitive for that particular area.

I'm not really sure what they're selling for or even renting for if um majority are rentals as opposed to properties that folks are purchasing.

Do you all have in any kind of comparative analysis for the brush park area?

Absolutely.

So be you know, before this, uh not say before, but doing this whole entire two-year process of designs, approvals, the most important product as a major developer or or any development like this, you have to get a full commercial uh uh appraisal.

And our appraisal, um, these numbers match those comparables that um brush park already offers or uh within a two-mile radius with our uh appraisal offers in our comparables.

So there are definitely comparables that um otherwise, you know, loans and banks wouldn't wouldn't allow this to be constructed.

So every all that criteria was met based off comparable sales that's already in the area.

Okay, and I'd like to add in just real quick in that same topic with such a small amount of units that we're gonna be developing, just nine of them, that makes the marketplace.

It makes it a unique project that people like from me who were born in Detroit but are now from the north suburbs, look at those as unique units and worth the extra money to pay to develop those and to buy those.

And so we think it make to that we're developing a marketplace for those units, in addition to the fact that the comparables do match up also.

All right, thank you.

I I hope uh there are people out there that feel the same way that are uh looking to purchase these units.

Uh Mr.

Arnold, I just want to uh share with you that if you have the ability to do maybe single family duplexes, quads, things like that at a lower price point throughout the city.

Um I know the mayor has an initiative to build a thousand, a thousand new uh properties in the city.

Uh I would certainly uh encourage you to um perhaps take a look around the city.

I know district four, I represent the far east side, um, has a large amount of uh vacant land, and we are looking to build density in the district.

So would love to have uh you consider uh doing some some smaller builds throughout the city.

We already have that to the pipeline.

Absolutely.

We're that's what we're here for.

Um that's what these type of situations we want to take advantage of, and that's my overall goal of transitioning back home.

Um I see the opportunity, I see the need, and uh we just want to use what we've learned through these last 20 years uh to to make uh Detroit even better what it is now.

All right, awesome.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Umson and I agree.

I know you mentioned that the proceeds looking at the proceeds from this to go to being able to build more affordable housing.

I know you indicated being in um Highland Park and Ecourus and River Rouge by Echo Vice Chair Johnson of Um, you know, you can go to the far east side and you can come over to the far west side as well in D7, also.

Um, but uh I would additional question um on this.

Um so I know you mentioned the skill trace task force and union labor.

Um you probably are listening in on for the skill trace task force.

I just want to make sure you have the information for that, or if you need us to send um if Mr.

Gulag could just share your contact info.

That'd be definitely great.

Well, uh, we could definitely will love to look into that as well.

Okay, and then um you mentioned uh unionized workforce.

Have you do you have are you currently?

Do you know if the contractors have that workforce or are they working to security union workforce there?

Yeah, so my uh contractor is in charge of uh we're we're interviewing subcontractors, and at the moment, I believe there's been a plumbing and electrician unionized company that's uh submitted bids.

Um I I don't know uh as of now I don't think anything's been accepted yet, or if it's one of the unit unionized um contractors, but I know we entertain and receive bids from unized contractors, subcontractors.

Got it, okay.

And um additional question on parking.

Um, I believe it is indicated that you will have eight parking spaces, but there's nine units.

So just want to get insight on the parking for that ninth unit.

Yeah, so I'm doing our uh a zoning approval of the street parking, obviously is uh a portion of that as well.

What there I think they were accounted for for six uh parking spots is uh from street parking in uh on that uh Edmund place as well that was accounted for.

And is that the is that permit parking?

Is that permit street parking?

Not at the moment.

They've been speaking of it through the brush park committee on doing that, but uh as of now, Eddie 84 Edmin is still just um open parking to a certain extent.

There's some signage, but not really permit parking, if that makes sense.

Okay.

Uh and then uh want to just want to make sure I cover all of my questions here.

Um and then uh you all I know you mentioned we talked about the incentives, but you all are good on um the finance and other project and all that.

That's solid.

Yes, sir.

Okay, all right.

That's the end of my questions.

Anything that folks want to add any additional is there a motion um on line item six point three.

There's been a motion to approve line item 6.3 and send the former with a recommendation to approve any objections.

Seeing none that action shall be taken.

Thank you all so much.

Looking forward to thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you, and thank you, Mr.

Gulok.

All right, that will move us on further into the agenda.

Uh from the legislative policy division, uh submit a report relative to the request for report on principal residence exemptions for the LLC entities.

Um, this is from member Callaway, and we've been asked to uh receive and file six point four.

Is there a motion?

Motion to receive and file.

Any objections?

Seeing none, that action shall be taken.

That moves us on to 6.5.

Article 8, liability and surety bonds, Division 2, claims against city by amending section 17-8-23, the process of claims in excess of $50, and to provide that the order general's awards for clients may not exceed $5,000.

There's been a request from Council President Tate to bring back in two weeks.

Motion.

There's been a motion to bring back 6.5 in two weeks.

Any objections?

Seeing none, the action shall be taken.

And on a miscellaneous, um, this is from my office.

A uh submit a memorandum relative to this closure closing the gap, building a Detroit where residents earn what Detroit pays.

Um we've been asked to bring this back in two weeks.

Is there a motion to read back 6.6 in two weeks?

There's been a motion made to bring back a 6.6 uh in two weeks.

See no objections, the action shall be taken.

And that moves us on.

We have a walk on here.

Um I will this will walk on related to um uh no cost agreement uh related to HR.

This is walk-on contract number 600 7750.

Is there a motion to walk on this contract?

Motion.

There's been a motion made to walk on this contract.

Any objections seeing none that shall be walked on added to the agenda.

I'll read the full contract, contract number six zero zero seven seven five zero, no cost agreement to provide deferred compensation services to employees.

The contractor is empower retirement located um in Greenwood Village, Colorado, contract period, um a period for five years.

The contract amount is zero dollars.

This is from the uh CFO's office.

And is there a motion to discuss?

Motion.

There's been a motion to discuss, and we have uh director starr on.

Good afternoon.

If you can just state your name for the record.

Yes, good afternoon, honorable body.

My name's Denise Starr, human resource director.

Thank you, Director.

I know you went over the overview in PHS because this is PHS, and it was referred back over to us um here in BFA.

But if you can just give a general overview of this contract.

Uh yes, and and before I start, I'd like to say um happy public service recognition week to you all.

Um and um, so what this contract is, as you've stated, this is a zero cost contract to the city.

Um this is a uh deferred uh pre-tax compensation plan where employees um contribute uh savings towards their retirement um and can contribute up to um this year is um 24,500 the pre-tax earnings that an individual can contribute.

We currently have four different companies that um we have in power, um, which used to be Mass Mutual and prior to that it used to be Hartford, and then we have Equitable, we have Vanguard, and we have Voya.

The reason to uh we want to consolidate um is that what it will do is it will uh be less confusing for an employee.

It would also mean lower fees for the participants.

Um, on average, employees are paying 41 a year, and with this consolidation under empower, they will go down to 14 dollars a year.

Also, there is a stable value fund, which is uh basic savings account, and currently the one that is being offered is 2.75 percent, and we um during the negotiations they have for the uh first year will be 4.25 percent, and there is a minimum guarantee for the following years as well.

What this does for the employees is that it it's less confusing.

They really don't know which company to select from.

We don't really have a consolidated message uh for the employees.

Um, and um, because each firm had something different.

Um what empower is going to be able to do is offer for our employees the same funds that the employees may be contributing to in the other three vendors.

Um, but this you know, this consolidation will encompass all of those funds so that the employees will they the funds that they're familiar with will be offered through the um through empower.

So they um will just see more consolidated message, more targeted messages on improving their savings, and we will not have as much confusion that uh happens today.

One other benefit for the employees is that they will be able to take a loan from themselves out of the funds that they have in their accounts, and this way they're paying themselves back.

So let's say that you're sending your child to you know college and you needed a loan, rather than going through a bank, you would be able to um have it um borrowed through the fund.

Uh they would approve it online, and then you would pay yourself back through payroll deduction, which is um only department that is able to do it.

It currently is the police department.

Um there's one of the unions is able to do that.

Now, how we came to the decision of consolidation is back in 2023, we formed what we call a fiduciary/slash oversight committee, which is comprised of uh labor unions, um finance, the law department, HR benefits, and um and our uh um for public safety unions are also on the uh committee as well.

And we reviewed all of the policies and uh documents, processes to make sure we were in compliance with IRS rules to begin with, which we are we which we are, and make sure that whatever we decided would stay in compliance, and we would have regular quarterly meetings with this committee, and at these committees we review what the returns on the um you know the investments are, and we watch out for any type any of the funds that might not be meeting the goals of that fund.

Um, and so there are different categories of funds that uh comprise these plans.

Um I think that is um everything that I would have.

You know, the most important thing about the consolidation, it is really meant to lower costs for the employees and also simplify.

Now, employees are able to keep their, let's say that someone retires from the city, um, they're able to keep their funds in any of the plans that they um you know that we have so um with empower, they'll be able to keep their funds there as well.

Thank you.

I'll open it up for questions.

Thank you, director.

Um, any questions from members on the committee?

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Just one question.

This is something that was brought to me by a new employee.

Um, I wasn't aware of it prior to that.

Um, but just wondering if there is um a time frame when an employee can sign up for it.

It's through the chair.

An employee can sign up for it any at any time.

There are no limitations, it's not like health care benefits where you have only one time or you know, during the calendar year for open enrollment to change plans.

Um, you are able to do this at any time.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Vice Chair Johnson.

Member War, you have any questions?

Okay.

Um, okay.

Uh Director Starr, thank you so much.

Additional question, as you mentioned, the ability for employees to borrow from themselves, and I know there's only one department that's able to do so now.

Are folks when this is if this comes on board, will folks be walked through um that process and what that means to make sure that there are no surprises there if they are borrowing from themselves.

Uh yes, through the chair.

We will be having an extensive education process, and there will be um three individuals that will be in assigned from empowered to actually do recruitment fares, educational fares for our employees, and if we need additional um assistance and power, it will be prepared to um help us on that.

Great.

Thank you.

And I know uh member Waters, you have something.

Oh, I um thank you.

Uh Director Stein.

Did you talk about the long terms?

What are the terms?

Uh through the chair, no, but I could get to those.

Um you know, you're basically paying yourself back at a very, very low interest rate that is um uh um better than what you might be able to uh get through the outside market.

Okay.

I I I guess when it comes to these kinds of things, I've got to tell you when I I'm reminded of those annuities where people are still repaying monies and so forth.

I I I know it's different, but I'm just saying it just brought the chair to my mind.

Yes, through the chair, there will be nothing like that will occur in this um instance.

Uh the individuals that um our consultant Siegel company, um, as well as our um employee within the benefits organization understands what did happen with the annuity, and this is a standard practice for most uh firms that offer 457 plans.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Director Starr.

Is there a motion to um Mr.

Corley?

My apologies.

Yes, Mr.

Cory.

Thank you so much.

There's a couple of questions.

Um I think the uh a benefit of this plan is 457 plan is when you you're contributing pre uh tax dollars, and so when you're fine for your taxes at the end of the year, your raw tax liability could be lower because you're contributing some of your salary, you know, to this plan.

Is that is that true?

Um Mr.

Yes, through the chair, absolutely.

This does lower your tax um, you know, liability.

It encourages you to save additional dollars so that you know, of course, we hope that all employees, you know, um stay with us through retirement in their careers, uh then this actually you know augments what they might be receiving from any other income source when they retire.

So just another quick question.

So when when you do retire and you start withdrawing from the fund, that's when you start paying taxes to the IRS.

Is that correct?

Uh through the chair, that is correct.

And usually when you're collecting the funds from your uh 457 or in the private sector, it's a 401k.

You are taxed, but because you are then typically having less of an income than you would when you were actually working, that it ends up being uh less of a tax liability for you.

Okay, thank you so much.

Thank you, Mr.

Corley.

Thank you, Director.

Um, seeing no further questions, is there a motion to approve and send to formal word recommendation to approve?

Motion.

There's been a motion to approve and send uh to formal word recommendation approve on this uh contract uh 600 7750.

Any objections?

Seeing none, that action shall be taken.

Thank you, Director.

Thank you.

All right, I'll move us on to member reports.

Any member reports?

No.

No.

Is there a motion to suspend member reports?

Motion.

And I there's been a motion to suspend member reports.

Uh seeing the objections that I shall be taken and seeing no further business before this committee.

Is there a motion to adjourn?

Motion.

There's been a motion to adjourn.

Uh seeing no objections to the committee, should stand adjourned.

Thank you all so much.