On today, Thursday, June 11th, 2026.

Madam Clerk, will you please call the roll?

Councilmember Letitia Johnson.

Present.

Councilmember Gabriela Santiago Romero.

Member Santiago Romero did indicate that she would not be present today.

Clerk was so notes.

Council President Pro Tempera Corman A.

Young the second.

Pro Tim has indicated that he is in route and should be here shortly.

Clerk was on note.

Madam Chair, you do not have a quorum present.

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

Although we do not have a quorum present, I would like to begin with public comment, noting that we have three public hearings on the agenda.

Um so if there is anyone joining us who would like to make a public comment, please raise your hand, whether in person or virtually, please raise your hand.

Clerk was so notes.

Thank you.

And now having a quorum present, we are in session formally.

If there is anyone joining us in person or virtually who'd like to make a public comment, please raise your hand.

Going once, going twice, going three times.

The collection of public general public comment has now concluded.

And good morning, Miss Great.

How many hands do we have raised virtually, noting that we do not have anyone in the committee of the whole with their hand raised?

Good morning, madam chair.

We have 14 hands raised for virtual public comment.

Thank you.

We'll give everyone two minutes for general public comment.

And who do we have first?

Our first public commenter is D dot Mobility Ambassador Cunningham.

Good morning, Mr.

Cunningham.

You have two minutes for general public comment.

313 444 9114.

That number was made so you can remember it.

Number one, you can use that for cash up.

You can use that for my Patreon.

You can use that uh to reach out for prayer or etc.

You can use that to find my Facebook.

There is a lot going on in the world, personally, financially, vehicle-wise.

And I've been praying.

Uh they scratch the head, that's fine.

They laugh, that's fine.

I'm asking you to pray in the Holy Spirit, call my name, our brother Cunningham and my mother, Sherwin Reliance.

Disabled resident at the Rivers of Gross Point.

The further and effectual prayers of the righteous of much.

The Holy Spirit brings all things to our remembrance, and there's nothing left to all.

And we pray that the angels go forth.

Open doors need to be open, closed doors need to be closed.

Present into the future.

As I pray in the Holy Spirit, I'm asking you to pray as well.

And uh Shanda Kiyara Basonabasan Dalla Masha.

Hallelujah.

Shandala Makayara Sondoku.

Hallelujah.

Hallelujah.

Hallelujah.

We worship you with the highest praise.

Hallelujah.

Hallelujah.

Thank you.

And before we continue with general public comment, I would like to get an approval of the minutes.

Pro Tim, is there a motion to approve the minutes?

I thought you were gonna give us a yellow like doda break.

Um motion to approve the minutes.

Hearing no objections, that action shall be taken.

And I would also like to court a call to order the 1015 public hearing and recess it to the call of the chair.

We are now back at general public comment.

Who do we have next?

Our next caller is owner Papa.

Owner Papa, you have two minutes for general public comment.

Good morning, and through the chair, may I be heard?

Good morning, yes.

Yes, you have um the the conversation yesterday to me for this club was very disturbing.

So you want me to subsidize people who make more money than me.

You want me to subsidize their rent, and you know the numbers of people in these jobs that they're talking about, fire department.

The majority are living outside of the community or Detroit and are white.

Um Detroit police, all of these groups that you're talking about, you want me to pay them their salaries and subsidize their rents.

And that's that's just um well.

I I I can't even name to you what this is like to live in a city that doesn't care about the residents in the city, but only cares about bringing people to the city.

When Miss Winston told you she was leaving, none of none of you asked her to stay.

None of you provided her anything for her to stay, but you expect us to take our tax dollars and allow them to move into the city, building the city where I'm paying for the demolition, I'm paying for all of these things in the city, but I don't benefit.

I don't want to hear pie in the sky.

I want to hear real numbers from you all.

And um LPD, the the uh uh let law department, they aren't doing their jobs because you're supposed to be protecting the citizens and their funding.

You know, we just came out of bankruptcy, and uh it appears to me we have dirty dirt all over the city, and I hear from Romero that it's too expensive to fix this problem that she and her committee over saw.

We have many things that are going on in this city.

I don't want to give any more money to anybody else other than to fix this problem.

There should not be anything on your agenda other than that, because it's inhumane otherwise.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And the numbers were shared for um the city club apartments that were discussed yesterday in BFNA, and there is an increase in tax revenue that's generated for the city.

The next caller.

Our next caller is Black Bag.

Black bag, you have two minutes for general public comment.

Black bag, are you there?

Miss Great, let's go.

Yeah, I'm right here, Latitia's dungeon.

Now Gary Gray is no longer with you.

He's retired.

So now you get you get the full understanding that the reason why I allowed you to operate without any words from me was because of Gary.

Gary was my advantage, my baby baby's friend, and I had utmost respect for Mr.

Gary Gray.

But since you want to come out and say what you want to say, you a cheating in public official, and I've been talking to you, and I told you about 1443 Spring Garden, and you came out your mouth.

Even though I got uh letter down at the building safety engineering department, power of attorney.

You came out your mouth and said my name is not on the D.

Now I'm gonna come out my mouth and talk about you and your big nose, your fake hair, that wig you got on sitting up there looking like you uh all that.

You are cheating in public official, and you know, no, no, that Janice M.

Winfrey been cheating in elections for years and years upon years.

She cheated you in, and you know this.

So I'm gonna make an announcement today.

It's gonna shock the city of Detroit.

It's coming up shortly.

So you pay attention to the talk in the streets.

I don't need to come down there and talk to y'all.

I'm gonna go where I feel comfortable at in the Detroit City streets and do what I do.

Thank you, Mr.

Crowley.

Um, and I have had a big nose for 50 years now.

I am confident in who I am, and I have no qualms about wearing a wig that I paid for.

Uh, and so just so you know, I do have hair under this.

When I campaigned in 2021, everybody saw my natural hair, and before that, uh, this is by choice.

So I appreciate you recognizing and acknowledging it.

But I do have all the confidence in the world in myself because I know who I am and whose I am.

Thank you.

The next caller.

Never in my life.

Our next caller is Betty A.

Varner.

Betty A.

Verner, you have two minutes for general public comment.

Uh, good morning.

Uh, to all within the sound of my voice, uh, Betty A.

Varner, uh, president of DeSoda Ellsworth Black Association.

Uh advocating for um our Arise Detroit event that's going to be August 1st.

And we are in need of uh volunteers to help us set up our tents and our games that uh we are going to uh have for that event for family-friendly uh games.

We're in need of um hygiene products to give away uh to the children along with the school supplies that we will be giving away.

Everything that we do will be free.

We are bringing resources to the area.

We will be giving away free bikes.

There will be free haircuts.

We are in need of a hair braider.

If there's anyone within the sound of my voice, uh please reach out.

Uh, some of the council members know my telephone number and can feel free to give it if anyone um calls and states they need my number, please share.

Uh we are going to have free food and they're going to be uh uh DMC, should be available.

The Wayne County Treasure, a mobile unit, and there will be other resources and then vendors.

So please come out.

It's a family-friendly event.

We are in need of uh the volunteers to arrive at 10.

The setup is gonna be from 10.

The event starts from 11 to 3.

I will be sending out uh uh flyers information, and it's gonna be at our Diva Community Park that we have purchased and cre purchased vacant lots and created in our neighborhood.

Thank you.

Before we we proceed to the next caller, I'd like to call the 1020 public hearing to order and recess it to the call of the chair.

We are now back at General Public Comment.

And who do we have next?

Our next caller is legendary Detroiter.

Legendary Detroit has already spoken.

We can go to the next caller.

Our next caller is Jadante Smith.

Jadante Smith, you have two minutes for general public comment.

Good morning, Maby Hurt.

Good morning, yes.

I will still write my comment out, but no problem.

I want to say there are some bad wigs in the building, but yours is at least always nice, Councilmember Johnson.

And I I just defended you on Facebook because I posted a video from Dirty Dirt being removed from a district for a lot.

I know District 4 has issues and this and uh you may not be perfect, but when I reach out, I get a response.

It seems like your constituents reach out, they get a response.

Um also there's a certain employee of a certain council member who wears terrible wigs.

So we should be talking about that person, not Latissa Rubin.

Talk about the right person for bad wigs.

Anyway, so Chronos Concrete, I was just over there yesterday, um, and there was flooding on the street on Gallagher Street, right next to the facility, and I have a video that evidences dirty water coming out of the facility that is concrete dust filled.

Um, and it's a pile of trash.

There's pallets on the inside and outside of the facility.

Somebody's dumping car parts on Gallagher and McNichols.

Um, there's also bags of trash.

People are illegally dumping right next to this operating 12 hours a day, Cronos Conquer facility, and we're keeping it open.

I think that's nuts.

Also, the Maroon family pays about five city council members who are currently on city council, and they gave uh Mary Sheffield $25,000.

I can't get a meeting with almost any of these.

Up Miss Effamarry Waters, I appreciate her and her staff.

They they did meet with me, but the rest of the four who take Maroon money will not meet with me, including James Tate, um and Renata Miller.

Very, very unfortunate that you guys will not meet.

And also, Councilmember Callaway, I spoke to your executive assistant and I sent an email weeks ago about having a meeting with you uh in the Detroit Ham Truman Coalition about a meeting, um, and no response.

So your executive assistant told me yesterday that you are aware, I love the response.

It is imperative that if we pay you a hundred and five thousand dollars per year, you at least respond to constituents.

You at least respond to constituents, at least respond.

And also I heard some very disparaging things about me from uh one of the council member sheep's staff.

I'll I'll say this play with your mama.

I will expose the floodgates if I need to.

Thank you.

The next caller.

Oh, sorry, before we go to the next caller, I'd like to call the 1025 public hearing to order and resess it to the call of the chair.

And who do we have next, Miss Gray?

Our next caller is Marguerite Maddox Scarlet.

Miss Marguerite Maddox Scarlet.

Good morning.

You have the floor.

Good morning.

Can you hear me okay?

Yes.

Okay.

Um city council members.

Take a welcome I shouldn't.

And look at the shadow box.

Sometimes back.

You take a book my shoes and our area.

And the property where I is where the shower is and run the corner.

Uh claim to the bus and the north bush.

But what is the lack of the police?

That's an issue.

Send unloved here.

And 83.

And nothing has been done.

Except for the shot up.

And but she didn't move here.

Yes.

Not the M that shot.

And if we went.

And there's been each money close.

What if we just and the shower?

And the time I was time.

I'm up in the street.

That is a dangerous.

And another thing is just that three are the five way to communicate.

Communicate communicate.

And try to find ways.

And get they can.

Thank you.

And I know a representative from your district was listening.

Um, and we'll connect with you.

We will also send a note to MDOT in regards to the freeway that you mentioned.

The next caller.

The next caller is Mr.

Foster.

Mr.

Foster, you have two minutes for general public comment.

Um good morning through the chair.

First thing uh think our community could do a little better, and now we address each other regardless of uh professional decisions.

We still should be able to see the beauty in each other, and I think in particular the black community when it comes down to black women, it's the only particular women that has an adjective or strength in front of it.

Strong black woman and strongness, right?

There has to come a time where the strength is not the adjective, but the beauty is the adjective, right?

And so that that's where I met with you have to have uh change of culture.

But I did want to speak.

I walked uh my first walk of mile yesterday with the cheese, but I was able to speak with Bill and a few other people and I thought thought it was rather cool and positive.

Um as far as planning development, um I was able to go to a little cigar shop overall Kennelworth and John, right?

Those are good things to have.

Now I'm not advocating for people to go out and smoke or anything, but I'm one that traveled and I respect cultures.

I enjoy learning new cultures and interacting with cultures and what they do over there.

I think it's pretty good.

Love is black on the black owned coffee shop, Jazz is uh shoes, rare shoe shine, and so places are freaking there for for some time.

But those are the type of things I would like to encourage into our community that you allow not just in the Boston Edison area, but in our communities.

Some of these buildings that's been sitting around, we want access to them.

Make our own community centers, do our own thing.

So thank you.

The next caller.

Our next caller is Samsung SMG991U.

Caller, you have two minutes for general public comment.

Good morning, Maddie Heard.

Good morning, yes.

I want to first say thank you to Cunningham.

Yesterday I had was on the bus and I was at Meyers, and I seen him sitting in the parking lot, and he gave me two bus passes.

So thank you, Cunnyham, for the bus passes.

Um also, you know, the shame.

I don't know if you know that the con it bus goes to Bell Isle and it's only like two buses that goes that's on that route.

We would appreciate because those people over here that still catches the bus.

Or they might want to park their car and ride the bus to the park.

So if you can, can you please put some more buses on the connet bus route?

Also the shame.

People ride they can take a bus right downtown from Van Dyke and Nevada all the way to downtown.

So can you please get some more buses on that?

That bus, I know the corner bus only run like every hour, and that's crazy.

And so if I missed the six mile, sometime I'll walk down to get on the corner, but can't do it because she just misses it.

So can y'all please uh get us some more buses on those lines and I'll also like for the brand of David bus back where it used to come.

I don't know if you rode it then, but where used to come all the way to Van Dyke and Davison.

That way right now it stops at Josekampo and I think it's uh McNichols on the uh on the service drive, whatever.

But anyway, can y'all please bring that Davidson bus back?

We can come down Davidson, go to Van Dyke, that way I can walk right out of my door and get on that bus.

Instead of walking over to six mile, trying to get to six mile.

So we need some more bus drivers.

Hopefully, uh you all can hire some, but we need more bus drivers.

And thanks for taking my car.

Thank you.

And we will certainly share your uh concerns with the department of transportation.

The next caller.

Our next caller is Cindy Dara.

Cindy Dara, you have two minutes for general public comment.

Good morning, Miss Cindy Dara.

Are you there?

Ms.

Great, let's come back to Cindy.

Our next caller is Renard Munchunski.

Renard Munshunski, you have two minutes for general public comment.

Good morning, Madam Chair.

Can I be heard?

Good morning, yes.

Actually, and you know what?

Thank you to the Zoom controller and yourself.

You are the only two people that know how to pronounce my name correctly.

Um just start my time.

Um, my name is Bernard Rashewski, District Six resident and organizer with Detroit People's Platform and organizing the transit justice team.

And I'm hearing some um concerns about the buses.

I just want to raise one too, and also give callers a chance to actually raise it directly to the department because I think the department doesn't do a good job of advertising that they have a monthly meeting um every third Thursday.

But first, um, as the Gordy Howe Bridge is scheduled to open um according to some reliable sources on the 15th, but with the recording being this Friday, if that is verified.

Well, city officials also be there as well, too, from both uh Windsor and also this great city as well, City of Detroit, um, to you know, open this bridge.

But I'm concerned about the residents and also Fort Street and also the bus riders on there.

Um I ask that your staffers can attend this D Doc Community meeting on July the 18th to ask about what would be the impact of the Gordy Hall Bridge opening on the fort um number 19, which has been complained of not being frequent enough every 45 minutes.

We get um more traffic coming in from Canada and vice versa.

Uh uh us going the other way.

There's gonna be people that need to shop or use the bus or public transit.

And um that needs to be pieced up because that's the only area that connects us to Southway County of the River into the airport and other areas like that too.

So um DOT needs to explain to the public what's going to be the impact of that, and also the I-375 project as that goes on construction and June 2027 as well.

Um, so that can be accessed on go on the City of Detroit website, search for DDOT.

Um, the meeting ID is 962.

Thank you.

The next caller.

Our next caller is William M.

Davis.

William M.

Davis, you have two minutes for general public comment.

Uh, good afternoon, young people.

Can I be heard?

Good morning, yes.

Okay.

Um, I like to start off by letting people know that next week, Thursday, uh the City of Detroit Retiree Task Force hybrid meeting will be taking place from 1 to 3 p.m.

Normally it was on Friday.

Uh, and which will be a hybrid meeting, which means you could come in person, 13th floor auditorium, or join by Zoom.

And uh, we need to make sure that the city council and the community realize that we have continued to suffer.

We've lost purchasing power.

We have lost uh we've lost thousands of general fund city Detroit retirees.

You know, we need to be compensated for some of our losses.

We could never be completely compensated for all of our losses, and but it's time for the city to start thinking about that, especially since the fake bankruptcy is over, that robbed the city of Detroit of assets that rob the city Detroit residents of assets that we still should not only supposedly own on paper, but should control and regulate that we're not getting a fair return.

We definitely not getting a fair return for DWSD assets that they stole.

Uh, we're not getting a fair return on Bell Ao, which they they took for free.

You know, so it's a lot of stuff we need to be exploring, but we need to make sure that City of Detroit retirees start getting something back.

Um, preferably at least a three percent return about 4.5% pension cut.

Uh I thank Coleman Young for his vote back during that time.

He was courageous, standing up against a lot of pressure.

And I thank you, young lady.

You have uh you're a beautiful young lady, and you have an excellent mind.

So y'all have a good day.

Thank you.

You as well.

The next caller.

Our next caller is Sydney Jackson.

Sydney Jackson, you have two minutes for general public comment.

Hi, good morning, everyone.

Um, I am calling in to enthusiastically support the City Club Apartments project, and I ask that you vote to move this project forward with a recommendation for approval.

I am a lifelong Detroiter, a proud product of the Detroit Public School system.

I graduated from the University of Detroit Mercy School of Law and still reside in the city on the west side.

I speak in my capacity as a private citizen.

I am excited about this project because it is located in the heart of downtown Detroit and gives me as a young professional a living option that is affordable, desirable, and upscale.

My peers, other young professionals who have not yet begun their own families, are also looking forward for this project for this type of affordable housing option in the city of Detroit.

This kind of safe, desirable affordable housing is one way to keep us at home in Detroit.

We don't want or desire to relocate to Chicago or to other cities in the Midwest uh to find this kind of housing opportunity.

We want to live, work, and play in Detroit.

Please approve this project to help us do exactly that.

Thank you, and I yield my time.

Thank you.

The next caller.

Our next caller is Deneijah Tate.

Caller, you have two minutes for general public comment.

Good morning.

Can you guys hear me?

Yes, good morning.

Good morning, everyone.

My name is Denise Tate, and I am a recent Detroit Mercy School of Law graduate.

I am from Illinois and I moved here a few years ago.

And since I have resided in downtown Detroit, where I continue to reside.

So I wholeheartedly support the City Club apartment CBD project.

I ask that you move to vote this project, that you move this project forward with a recommendation for approval.

I am excited about the City Club CBD project because I would love to live somewhere that is affordable and desirable.

And offering this kind of safe and affordable housing is one way to keep me in Detroit.

And I look forward to exactly this type of housing option in Detroit.

As I stated, I want to continue to reside in downtown Detroit.

I don't want to have to relocate back home to Chicago.

So please approve this project to keep to help me and to keep me in Detroit.

Thank you.

Thank you.

The next caller.

Cindy Dara, you have two minutes for general public comment.

Yeah, thank you.

Uh I'll pull over.

I'm driving over to the vet.

My pregnant cat came back, so I'll be having kittens hopefully soon if people want I want to go to home form, but I gotta go get this one worms before the kittens come.

But I I just I went downtown yesterday and uh because I've got that water is coming in from the sidewalk.

Well, they took the fence down.

Thank you, whoever did that.

Thank you.

Yeah, the next step is to try and get the grades so the water doesn't come into the side of my building because it's uh I need to get a surveyor, I guess, to prove that the underneath all that big rocks I put next door to my building 22 inches away.

They graded that evidently when they took the uh the grass off to put the rock, and then you can't see the grade.

Well, I can see it actually.

It's still pretty obvious, but I guess to prove it, I've got to pay somebody to survey that lot to and mine it and show that it actually is bringing the water right toward me.

Then I thought the best protection would be to go 10 feet out or a little more and dig a drywell so that the water can't get to me.

It goes to that drywell and and evaporates on their property, or or get them to regrade the whole thing.

Because it was created properly before this never happened until uh you guys had my fence thrown down and trying to get me out of the building.

This never happened until uh you guys had my fence torn down and trying to get me out of the building.

Well, you know, I I've been struggling ever since because there are people that tear down my down spots, and I gotta read the thank you, Miss Dara and your uh district managers and council member council members um are listening and are here to assist.

That now concludes our general public comment, and we are going to return back to the agenda.

Um before we do that, pro Tim.

Thank you.

Um chair, I just thought that I would be uh remiss if I didn't just mention the fact that I don't like it when you have people who are denigrating people, especially women, and I felt some of the comments were out of line and disgusting, quite frankly.

I don't know who died and made some of these people the arbiter of women's looks, especially the chairwoman, as if they have the ability to uh comprehend beauty.

I think it's wrong, I think it's despicable, I think it's below the pale, I think it's deplorable, and if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

Don't talk about people's mothers and keep people's names out of your mouth if you don't have anything positive to say is stop bumping your gums together about stuff you don't know nothing about when it comes to people's looks.

I think it's disgusting.

And I and I understand we have free speech and we have the right to speak, but I'm a little bit sensitive to the fact that it's Father's Day, and you have a lot of women who are mother and father in this city, and people should be respected.

And so I just wanted to get that off my chest.

I thought it was wrong, and I think that we can do better.

Thank you.

And by the way, also I think uh mayor chair, you look absolutely beautiful and stunning, and we shouldn't talk about people's women's accessories.

You know, mind your business.

All right, thank you.

I'm sorry.

I'm done.

Thank you, Pro Tim.

I I appreciate that.

Um, you know, one thing people know about me from when I was in high school is everybody has their personal opinion.

Um I am not, I am not phased by what somebody thinks about me because I know how I feel about myself.

So it it certainly doesn't bother me, but I've been again living in this can for a long time.

Um, and I am a Virgo, so I am a bit of a perfectionist.

So uh, you know, I I do what I do because I like what I do, and uh it is what it is.

I just wonder if uh the person who made that comment has a mirror themselves.

So at any rate, uh we will now go to our first public hearing, and I'd like to call the 1015 public hearing to order as the city planning commission team joins us at the table.

The 1015 public hearing is to amend chapter 50 of the 2019 Detroit City Code zoning by amending Article 17 zoning district maps, section 50-17-42, district map number 40 to modify the development regulations for an existing PD plan development zoning classification established by ordinance 15-10 on a portion of the designated PD, commonly known as 8045 Rutland Avenue and 8255 Redlin Avenue.

And good morning, please introduce yourself for the record and you may proceed.

Good morning, madam chair, President Pro Tem, Tim Rita Brule City Planning Commission staff.

Good morning to both of you as well.

Luco and part of MHT housing, part of our development team.

Madam Chair, may I share my screen?

Yes.

It appears that sharing is not turned on.

Are you able to raise your hand so that Ms.

Gray can see you?

Yes, madam chair.

She's moved me over as a panelist.

There we go.

Madam Chair, as you mentioned, we are here discussing the Garden View Estates project, and it is a modification to an existing PD.

I apologize.

The subject area for this includes two vacant blocks within the Garden View Estates plan development, which is currently controlled by the Detroit City House or the Detroit Housing Commission.

This was previously developed with the Herming Gardens Housing, which was demolished in the 1990s, and now part of the Garden View Estates.

In 2007, the eastern portion of the site was rezoned to plan development for 234 residential units.

In 2010, the remainder of this site was cleared, streets and lighting were installed.

Currently, there is a remaining 100 acres rezoned to PD to allow for 231 additional units.

Since 2007, a variety of housing types have been built on the eastern portion of the site.

The mid and the western portions of the site have remained vacant since then, even though there have been there were initially plans to develop single family housing that has not come to fruition.

Just to show the surrounding land uses to the north, it is the plan development, the rest of the area that we're speaking of, as well as to the east, which is both undeveloped and has multifamily residential on it.

To the south is R2, two family residential.

It's developed with a church and residential, and to the west, again is PD zoned and undeveloped.

Planning and development department did provide a master plan interpretation to ensure that this PD modification is consistent with the future land use designation, and it was found to be consistent.

We did hold a public hearing on September 4th, 2025 before the city planning commissions.

I have some of the questions here and just go over them briefly because I think it speaks a lot to the project.

What percentage of construction contractors are Detroit based on MHT projects?

Approximately 75 to 85% on average are Detroit based, and 20% or more are minority and female owned or and or female owned.

What is the current occupancy rate for all of the existing MHT housing developments?

And that is at 94.4%.

And how many developments are has MHT developed within the city?

Currently 23 developments with 1,987 units.

At the time of the public hearing, there were also nine developments under construction or rehab rehabilitation with another 531 units.

And all of these are affordable housing developments.

Structurally, the buildings will be identical.

The interior and exterior designs will not be identical.

The common shared spaces will be designed with different artwork, paint colors, etc.

And what is the specific type and brand of the metal panels, which I think are no longer in consideration.

They've changed that design since then.

So that it was more in conformity with the existing houses in the Garden View estates.

And at the time of the hearing, it was 92.5%.

I'm only going to share a few of the most applicable criteria since there are 16 in this case because there's both the planned development criteria and rezoning criteria.

Whether the proposed amendment corrects an error or meets the challenge of some changing condition trend or fact.

The subject site being part of a larger PD has sat undeveloped.

It will allow for denser residential development to move forward since the single family housing never came to be developed there.

Whether the proposed amendment will have significant adverse impacts on other property in the vicinity.

And I'm not going to read the whole criteria on this one, but whether or not the development will result in a recognizable and substantial benefit to the ultimate ultimate users of the project and the city where such benefits would otherwise be unfeasible or unlikely to be achieved.

We anticipate that the proposed development will result in substantial benefits both to the future residents of the housing development as well as the current residents in the general vicinity.

The proposed development will provide housing units needed in the city and create financially accessible housing options for a variety of households.

This also includes senior citizens, uh small fam or not small families, families, and many others.

In addition, the proposed development includes community green spaces, ADA accessibility, and a first floor community space, as well as a community uh building as separate from the community space.

Um, and whether the location of the plan development is appropriate.

We find that it is appropriate as it is already a plan development there, meant for housing.

This is just slightly denser, and we do know that the PD to the west is no longer considered for housing, but a school.

So by creating this denser housing, you're still getting a lot of units on that space as it was initially planned.

Uh, just an update.

You should have received an email uh from director Todd regarding the site plans and renderings and the ordinance.

Um, after the CPC took action on this, recommending approval, uh, there were several updates to the site plans and renderings, and this was based on input from various city departments.

These were all considered minor modifications, and so a new ordinance has been presented to you today, just reflecting the change in the architect name and the date as well as those minor modifications.

Um there were no changes made to the proposed unit number or unit sizes.

So they did reduce the apartment building portion of this by one story, but we're still able to maintain that number of units and unit size by slight reconfiguration of the building.

Um if it's okay, Madam Chairman, to pass this on to Mr.

Willian to speak to the project itself.

Thank you.

What you're looking at here is an overview shot of the site.

Our goal of this project, um, and get a little background on this.

Um the Detroit Housing Commission put on an RFQ back in June of 2024.

Uh, MHT housing was selected as a development partner for this this project uh as a co-developer with them.

The overarching goal was to create affordable housing with various AMI levels.

So this development ranges from 30% to 80% AMI with a uh a Section 8 HAP contract supporting nearly half of the units.

101 units for this this development phase, the 101 units between the first two phases of this development, 49 of which are supported by a HAP contract.

With the amount of density in the space, we tried to do our best to make sure that there were green spaces, community spaces, and and open areas for for families to feel as though that they're part of a community and not just living in an apartment building.

The apartment building itself and the town homes, town homes have ranges between one and three bedrooms, uh 630 to 900 square feet.

Kind of touched on this this as well.

Um go to the next.

Yep.

This is the what you're looking at right now is the old site plan.

So same number of buildings, same number of townhomes, same number of units in each building based on conversations we had with the city and with the community themselves.

Um we did our best to find ourselves mirroring the neighborhood instead of trying to stand out from the neighborhood.

So right now, currently at the Gardenview site, there are two three-story buildings.

Our initial plans called for a four-story building.

We have reconfigured that apartment building to be a three-story building while maintaining the same number of unit counts and the same size of the units.

So this is the updated plan.

Same number of parking spaces, same number of ADA units, same number of ADA parking spaces as well.

So we try to remain consistent throughout that as well.

What you're looking at is is the three-story apartment building.

Um be brick, concrete, and siding, trying to give it some texture.

Um for the next 15 to 20 20 years.

This is the rear of the building, and then what you're looking at now are the town homes.

A comment that was made um during our conversation with the city was was trying to make this these town homes as accessible as possible.

One of the major changes was there were stairs up to uh the entrances.

We've now removed those stairs and included more ramps for for those ADA units.

And Madam Chair, the city planning planning commission did vote on this recommended approval of the request to modify the existing plan development zoning classification created by ordinance number 50-10 with the following conditions that a separate landscape plan be submitted subject to review and approval by CPC staff, that the site plan be revised to designate within the three-story building a multi-purpose room as a community space, and that the use be limited to residentially scaled social gatherings, that the exterior materials and color palette for all buildings be compatible with the existing development within Garden View Estates, and that the final site plans, elevations, landscape lighting, and signage plans be submitted for CPC staff approval prior to submitting applications for all applicable permits with the city.

And madam chair, with that, if there are any questions.

All right.

Thank you so much for that presentation.

It was brief, but it was thorough at the same time.

Um I just want to ask if you can just review the breakdown of the units, one bedroom, two bedroom, studios, what have you, as well as to provide the rental rates.

I know you indicated that 49 of the 102 would be at 30 percent.

Is that what you were saying here?

At or below.

At or below, yes.

Okay.

So that's to give you an estimate.

One bedrooms at 30 percent or below our our individuals or families making less than 20,000 dollars.

Okay.

And what's the total breakdown of the units?

So of the 102, how many one bedrooms, two bedrooms?

In the apartment building, one bedrooms, there are 47, and then six two bedrooms in the town home phases.

There are um in each building, there are 12 12 units, there are eight two bedrooms and four three bedrooms, all identical for for each building.

Okay, awesome.

Now, can you help me understand the accessibility of these units?

I know you indicated that going into the building that there are no stairs, but what about inside of the units?

You mind going back a couple slides for me.

As she does that, I'll I can kind of speak to it.

Um, the ends, so the north and south portions of each each town home are the ADA units.

So all of them are first floor.

There are twos and threes, two and three bedrooms in the townhomes that are that are ADA units.

So the middle portions of the building are are your quote unquote normal units.

The end caps of them are your ADA units.

Um there are I believe 14 ADA units in the town home phase, and then some of them are are directly designated for hearing and visually impaired residents.

That's great.

That's great.

Um being a member of the disability task force, uh, one of the conversations we recently had was about um providing accessibility for people that are visually impaired, and so we don't hear that frequently, so it's good to hear that.

Um, how about universal design?

If there was one of the units within the complex and someone needed um some level of accessibility, would you be able to implement all of all of our units are are universally designed?

Okay.

All right, thank you.

Pro Tim Young, no questions?

All right, thank you so much.

We are going to turn to um public comment regarding the public hearing.

If you would like to make a pop a public comment regarding the 1015 public hearing, please raise your hand, whether in person or virtually, if you'd like to make a public comment, please raise your hand.

Go on once going twice.

Going three times.

The collection of public comment has now concluded.

Ms.

Gray, how many hands do we have raised?

Madam Chair, there are six hands raised for virtual public comment.

Thank you.

We'll give everyone one minute 30 seconds for a public comment regarding the public hearing that we just heard.

Who do we have first?

Our first public commenter is Cindy Dara.

Cindy Dara, you have one minute, 30 seconds for a public comment regarding the public hearing.

Yeah, um I I heard them say something about that it's gonna be uh uh sustainable for 15 years.

I don't know what they're talking about, but a building my bill is over a hundred years.

I would hope it would last whatever they're doing, but also um I'd like to know if they could put a foundation so that if in the future, like uh Ford Hospital, I think Henry Ford when they built that, they built a foundation and later they came and added some floors and went up because they didn't have the land available.

So I just think it'd be wise to go ahead and put the foundation in in case you want to do that in the future and kind of modify that stuff.

But also, I believe that really when we're uh uh doing this housing, I would like to see you make all of a handicapped accessible.

Like if you've got two floors and they gotta go upstairs, make sure you have a full bathroom on the first floor and at least one bedroom.

Then somebody they don't have to move out, they can just uh stay where they're at instead of trying to uh move somewhere else if they become disabled.

So I just recommend that you know uh even though it might cost a little in the in the beginning.

If people know they can move into a unit like that, they'll be very satisfied.

I think thank you.

The next caller.

Our next caller is legendary Detroiter, legendary Detroiter.

You have one minute 30 seconds for a public comment regarding the public hearing.

Yeah, uh, I was just looking at the diagram that was put up.

Now, another floor could be added because I do believe that's in the criteria in the zoning over there, but you can have another level, which would add more affordable units over there.

Now, the old Herman Gardens I that it used to be uh the Herman Garden projects.

I know I grew up in that neighborhood.

I'm from over there.

And the HDKs, those were the Herman Garden killers, they uh were over there.

Now it needs to be redone, redeveloped, and all that stuff that happened in the past does not need to be replicated over there in district seven.

Now, I'm Joy Road Root, so I know what I'm talking about.

I'm also a builder.

I have several projects that I'm in development stages and working on, and I've done numerous development uh how should I say rehab redevelopments of projects here in the city for other out-of-town investors?

What is the black involvement?

African American involvement in this project.

And um, I think you need to go back to the drawing boards, add another floor, make it a three-level, put elevators in there, and make all the units handicapped accessible that are on the first floor, every last one of them.

Thank you.

And I know Miss Maddox is going to get all of you.

Um, it is ADA accessible.

Uh, thank you.

The next caller.

Our next caller is Mr.

Foster.

Mr.

Foster, you have one minute, 30 seconds for a public comment regarding the public hearing.

Yes, yes.

No, just a couple of things.

Um, I think to our council member Young's point, there is a lot of young ladies out here that's playing mother and father.

Mr.

Foster.

Yes.

I have to remind you.

Yeah, yeah.

So I was gonna say that I think that these are legislative issues where we talk about development within our city, that they should be reflective of the true population here.

And so since Mr.

Young spoke those things, I think that you guys should get a quote and actually have an accurate number.

So when we do an affordable housing, those things can be taken into account.

And I think legislators have to do a better job in funding our community and hearing directly as to what it needs here and the population.

Are we dealing with couples?

Are we dealing with single parents?

Are we dealing with single parents or multiple children?

Because all of those create a different criteria as far as housing goes.

And then don't get things passed was called a lame duck.

Lame ducks, right?

Or lame duck sessions.

So this is election year.

We want our legislators to hear exactly what's needed in our city.

We don't want any more lame ducks.

The next caller.

Yes, ma'am.

And through the chair, may I be heard?

Yes.

My question to the panel is what is a spot zone?

I'm not in, I'm not in uh, I don't know what that is.

They say they have multiple projects.

Could they list some of the projects that they have right now going on and um one or two and um one or two of the ones they have planned for the future?

And I'd like to know how will they handle the um additional storm water.

Um I think it's a good project because it consists of uh nice sort of um uh units that are affordable for several groups of people, and I think this is what a what this looks like, um unlike the club, which is really just for people who are who are outpriced.

Uh, I think people in this particular project will be from truly different uh income groups.

I know people who live over there.

I remember when uh Judge Matthews lived over there, but when it was the Herman Gardens, but it also had a problem with the dirty dirt, it was contaminated dirt.

I remember when the winans tried to buy it, and I'm wondering if that process has happened to clean up all of the sites, uh dirty dirt, and if we can't implement that same cleaning up the dirty dirt all around the city.

Thank you.

Thank you.

The next caller.

Miss Marguerite Maddox Scarlet, you have the floor for the 1015 public hearing.

Thank you.

Um have just lead my name.

Um they give work together.

No matter what the mention is done.

And they're gonna be any lessons they're shit.

And we had a hearing and I'm at my management in a night.

But my any kind they never done it.

But I'm dead, ladies and hearing people have vision problems.

Thank you for that and looking at find that floor thing.

That we the can get me of the floor plan just and the individual apartment contacts.

Okay.

So yeah, big way up.

And I'm glad.

That's check.

That shouldn't have been getting what the house issue.

Today.

Um look like the game.

Yeah, and not me via you right now.

Like now.

But the gate okay.

But the gun to be open.

It is working.

Please make sure that you think about people.

The hair is the hair.

And to make sure that it's gonna be a community move.

With within the complex.

Um thank you.

Thank you.

The next caller.

Our last caller is Jatante Smith noting there were two hands raised after you put off public comment.

Thank you.

Good morning.

I wanted to say um that I was gonna ask about a water drainage plan as well because I just seen some uh some land that is quite impervious that had a lot of pooling going on.

No, this is gonna be different because this is a development.

Also, I would think that um we will be as a city wanting to go more towards individual housing versus projects like this, even though we do need new housing.

Um the material bill quality is not gonna be the same as a hundred-year-old house in the city of Detroit.

Um, generally also uh I did go to the disability uh forum meeting, so I do have some ADA concerns uh as well when it comes to this property.

Um also my biggest concern is gonna be about the soil contamination under the project.

Is there any soil testing done?

And I think that's something that should be written into our code at this point that when it comes to new developments in the city of Betroy because we have had not just this recent scandal with uh soil contamination.

We've had it for years and years.

Uh we need to have some regulations around new construction where we had that we have to have soil contamination testing done, or just to make sure what's under uh some of these uh vacant lots because some of these homes have been torn down and they were not uh remediated correctly, or they were um not cleared out, the holes are not cleared out, and they were just backfield with whatever was in the hole.

So I think we need to look at that in general because we don't know what we're exposing residents to when we are moving these um moving this dirt out of these holes that have been torn down for years and years.

Thank you.

Thank you.

That concludes our comment regarding the public hearing, and I will turn it back over to Mr.

Williams if you'd like to address any questions you heard.

So I think the there was a a couple comments about the uh the environmental portion of this of this development.

We've gone through a phase one and a phase two.

Uh, we're now working with Eagle, the city of Detroit, and MISTA to complete a res app uh that will include um removing dirty soil, putting in new soil before we build this development.

We're also doing gas, uh gas and radon testing at the end of this month to ensure that it's safe for residents before we have a break around.

Um the durability of the building, I know I mentioned um 15 to 20 years.

That's the compliance period for um low-income housing tax credits.

Every 15 to 20 years, we can reapply credits to do full-scale rehabs throughout the the duration of this development.

There will be on-site maintenance staff who are very capable of ensuring that that residents are are kept safe, um, that their units are maintained, um, and that and that problems don't don't become larger issues.

Um as for the stormwater and drainage, um, there are currently uh infrastructure in place, so stormwaters are there.

Um so that should not be an issue for for this development, and then the retention area uh is also in place.

We have approval from the city uh for that as well.

Um Madam Chair, I'll address a few more of the questions.

One, there was a question about who will be the contractors um working on this project, and I know I had mentioned it previously, but 75 to 85 percent of on average of uh contractors and all MHT products are Detroit-based, with 20% or more on average being minority and/or female owned.

So I know that came up.

Um as far as being able to add another floor or more units, I would like to point out this is phase one of a larger housing development.

There were will be more uh you there are more units planned in the future.

Um as for the fourth floor, that was initially in MHT's concept, and through input from various city departments, that is why they've taken that down through the site plan review process that was with the input of city departments, not theirs.

Um there's a question about who would be able to live there.

Again, these are one to three bedroom units offering a variety of family sizes to be able to reside there.

Um there was a question about spot zoning.

That is not an easy subject to cover.

That is more of a uh a planning uh term and a legal term, but it essentially means we cannot put something in place that is incompatible.

We can't rezone land in a way that is incompatible with the rest of the area.

Um there's a difference between spot zoning and illegal spot zoning, so that's something that typically law department looks at for us when there's a question of that with our rezonings.

But I I I do appreciate the question on that.

Um we did speak to the current number of product projects and the future number of projects.

If you go on the MHT, is it on your website?

You can see all of their projects.

And there was also a question about the floor plans, those should be on the Detroit Housing Commission website for this project.

Um I think that that was all that I had noted down.

All right, thank you.

I will um there were a few that were um still outstanding, and just want to ask Mr.

Williams if you can share maybe a little bit more about what is required in addressing contaminated soil.

So this is a part of the the development team.

This is this is where we kind of take a step back and and we listen to Eagle, uh, Mishta and HUD, they tell us what to do.

We cannot have any involvement um with what they ask of us.

The requirements from Litex, city home funds, so there are multiple processes um depending on funding sources and what type of buildings will be there.

Um so we will go through a a res app process that will tell us what we have to do before we can ever ever break around.

We anticipate that there will be soil remediation and a vapor mitigation system for for this building, both of which processes MHT has done countless times within the city and and outside of Wayne County.

Thank you for that.

And are you able to share two or three of your projects that you have in the city?

I know there are numerous.

Absolutely.

MLK on second.

And then under construction right now, we're we're doing the rehab of the Brewster Wheeler site wheeler site.

So that'll be an affordable housing development.

And we are rehabbing and bringing back the REC Center.

So we brought brought back Cronk a few months ago.

And then Cathedral Arts, northern portion of the city.

That's under construction right now and opening soon.

And working on the villages of Parks High in District 4 as well.

All right, thank you for that.

Lastly, I do just want to maybe touch a little bit more on the questions that Miss Maddox asked in regards to automatic door openers, um, sliding doors, washer and dryers being side by side.

Um and she also mentioned the intercom system.

If you and you may not know this, so we're just going to request that you put light on the intercom system so that anyone who may be hearing impaired can um see the light.

I appreciate that feedback, and I don't have the details speak to that directly, but as for security concerns in the doors, um we doors will have have locks 24-7.

Residents will have their own their own entrance and exits.

Um washers and dryers, there will not be community washers and dryers.

Each unit will have have their own dedicated dedicated space.

And and on that note, um, just want you to be mindful of the need for side-by-side units for individuals who may have mobility challenges who can't reach up to set washer and dryer.

So if you can make sure you take that back, um, especially for the accessible units.

Um, and then talk about the access going into a unit, whether the apartment complex or the townhouses, I'm sure the townhouses won't have an automatic door because people will have their own individual key to get in and out.

But how about the apartment?

So that there will be an exterior door that will be that will be locked in and residents will have their own access, and then inside there will obviously be their own apartment door, which they can then open and close and lock themselves.

Okay.

Can you look into having the entry into the apartment complex being an automatic door that opens and closes?

I'll make note of that.

Thank you.

All right, anything additional, pro Tim Young.

Thank you, ma'am.

Chair.

I just want to go over um simple definition of spot zoning.

Uh spot zoning occurs when a city changes the zoning of a specific property to allow a use that is inconsistent with the surrounding neighborhood and the municipal municipality's overall planning goals.

Is that good enough to think?

Through you, madam chair, to Pro Tem Young, that is very good.

Okay.

It also can't show favoritism to one developer, or it has to be fair.

There's but that is a very good I didn't have one right in front of me, and as I said, it it is a complicated topic that we often have to go to, you know, legal ex to the law department to the uh people that understand that a little bit more just to make sure we are staying in compliance with that.

It is one of the more powerful um uh um is one of the more uh is one of the more uh authoritative powers that we have uh within influential powers that we have within the city and within the city body.

Um I just wanted to say just for clarification, I know the answer to this already, but just for clarification, that's not happening in this project at all, correct?

With the two acres, correct.

Do you madam chair to uh pro tem young?

No, that is not happening here.

Um this was already zone plan development to begin with.

Um no, and that is something that you know this is spot zoning isn't illegal, and a legal spot zone is an issue that they are two different things, but um yeah, and that is something that we are also not just through city but also through the zoning enabling act.

And I also know uh the stellar reputation of MHT housing as well as with the church, so we really look forward to them.

We work with them in the past in terms of housing, so we appreciate you.

We want to continue that relationship going.

So thank you very much for that.

Thank you, Mayor Chair of Dunn.

All right, thank you, Pro Tim.

Um, and before we move on the actual public hearing, Director Tye, would you like me to address this or would you like to address it?

I'm happy to.

Thank you.

Um Pro Tim Young, is there a motion to request that the city planning commission revise the ordinance to address the updated site plan that was discussed?

Motion for the uh city planning commission to revise.

Um for the ordinance to be revised as it was presented to you, that does have to be done at the request of council.

Um I think director Todd can speak, or if he needs to speak more to that, but that does have to be something requested.

Director Ty.

I believe I thought that's what we were doing.

I apologize.

Anything additional, Director Todd.

Good morning, Madam Chair and Pro Tim Government.

Um, yes, yeah, the as you indicated, first step would be to direct us to modify the ordinance as an outcome of the public hearing.

And then again, if you are then comfortable to move the ordinance as amended uh to the formal, and then at the time of the formal, we will submit the new revised ordinance as a substitute for your action.

Thank you.

All right, there is a motion to request the city planning commission to revise the ordinance to address the updated site plan.

Hearing no objections, that action shall be taken.

And Pro Tim Young, is there a motion to send line item five to formal with a recommendation to approve as amended?

Motion to say line 05 is a regular data for approval as amended to formal session.

Hearing no objections, that action shall be taken.

Thank you.

Thank you both for being here.

We appreciate it.

That now closes out the 1015 public hearing.

I'd now like to call back to order the 1020 public hearing.

And as we have everyone queuing up, the 1020 public hearing is to establish a commercial redevelopment district for Fort Shelby Hotel LLC around 525 West Lafayette Boulevard in Detroit, Michigan, in accordance in accordance with Public Act 255 of 1978.

And we should have several individuals that are joining us.

When you see yourself on the screen, please introduce yourself for the record.

Good morning.

Go ahead.

Good morning.

My name is Evat Jameson.

I'm with the housing and revitalization department.

Good morning.

Good morning, Alton Williams, D G C.

Morning.

Good morning, Peter Bucuma, uh with 6 p.m.

Hospitality, uh, representing the ownership and operations at the hotel.

Good morning.

Uh good morning, Richard Barr from Huntman representing the petitioner.

Morning.

Good morning, Cory Levin from Hottingman representing the petitioner.

Good morning, Mike Postel is 6 p.m.

hospitality.

Good morning.

Tom, are you shy?

Yes, good morning, Tom Willen.

I uh also represent the management company.

Good morning.

And I believe Attorney Barcliff is going to join us as well.

Um we can go ahead and get started, and anyone who joins us later can introduce themselves.

Who would like to begin?

I'll go ahead and start to the chair.

We have Fort Shelby Hotel LLC has requested a commercial redevelopment district in located on 525 West Lafayette in downtown Detroit.

The legislative body of a qualified local governmental unit may establish a district on its own initiative and upon written request filed by the owner.

Thank you.

Madam Chair, may I share my screen, please?

Yes.

Thank you.

All right.

I think we're ready to go.

Okay.

So today, Fort Shelby, led by Peter Bukuma of 6 PM Hospitality is requesting the establishment of a PA 255 commercial redevelopment district.

Before getting into the project details, I would like to explain the purpose and function of the requested tax incentive.

PA255 was enacted by the state of Michigan to promote the redevelopment of commercial property for the primary purpose and use of a commercial business enterprise.

Per state statute, rehab projects will have the taxable value frozen at the pre-rehab level, while new construction receives a 50% reduction on property taxes generated from the new building improvements.

The exemption may be approved for up to 12 years.

There is no reduction to the existing property taxes that are collected by the city, and the incentive benefits are not generated until after the completion of construction.

On April 23rd, 2026, the Assessor's Office for the City of Detroit provided a letter confirming this project's eligibility for the PA 255 exemption.

This project is loaded located at 525 West Lafayette Boulevard and downtown Council District 6.

I think this is Lapbey on it.

Fort Shelby Hotel is a 41.1 million dollar hotel upgrade project upon completion.

Will be updated to include refurbished guest rooms, a new FB outlet, and a brand new Starbucks storefront.

As part of our evaluation, we ensure that every project meets the specific policy objectives.

Projects should provide strategic benefits that align with the city's goals and initiatives.

Economic benefits that create opportunities for Detroit residents and businesses and fiscal benefits for the city.

Projects should also meet the BUT 4 requirement, indicating that financially the project cannot proceed without the incentive.

Fort Shelby demonstrates strategic benefits by updating a historic building, which was actually added to the uh National Register of Historic Places in 1983.

Fort Shelby Hotel demonstrates strategic benefits also by providing an updated community amenity.

Fort Shelby Hotel demonstrates economic benefits by creating 30 temporary construction jobs and creating 10 permanent FTE jobs.

Fort Shelby Hotel generates a 12-year benefit of 432,051 or approximately $36,000 per year.

And we have also determined that the project meets the BUT 4 requirements due to the project's inability to cover debt payments without this incentive.

The existing annual taxes on the property are 173,268.

Upon completion of the development project, the new unabated property taxes are estimated to increase to $194,827.

With the abatement applied, the total annual property taxes would be reduced to 205,111.

This concludes my portion of the presentation.

I will now turn it over to the development team to discuss additional details about the project.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you.

Good morning.

I'm Peter Buco.

I'm the CEO and founder of 6 PM Hospitality.

I'm a lifelong born actually behind the front desk of my parents' first hotel up in the UP.

And been in the hospitality business my whole life.

Our group has been working on acquiring this property with a number of partners for well over a year now, and the property tax issue has been the consistent blockade that we've ran into as we worked through this project.

And so that's why we are here today asking for your assistance.

And we worked with Battle Creek Unlimited to completely gut and renovate the property in what is about a 75 million dollar project.

Today that property is open.

It is uh exceeding guest expectations and has won uh the new uh conversion of the year award by Hilton for the product that we uh were able to produce there with the greater team.

So super excited about that.

So that's a very very brief background on myself and our company.

Um the site is the uh Fort Shelby Hotel in 2008, uh late 2008, early 2009, the hotel was actually opened or converted to the double tree as it sits today.

The property underwent an extensive renovation back then where a lot of the remediation work was done.

We're working with consultants just to confirm that everything that we were told and that we've uh seen has been remediated appropriately.

The hotel um currently has 14 ADA rooms in it.

I know that's a uh an issue that we wanted to bring up with a mix of roll-in and tub rooms, and we have a number of disability rooms too, and then we also have the ability to make any room um visually and hearing impaired.

Uh we have uh a kit that allows for us to convert any room to that.

Um the uh the request is for this abatement will allow us to upbrand the hotel and to refresh the guest rooms and do a complete gut and remodel of the lobby space to um refresh the the space, but also bring it to the level of expectations of visitors from around the world.

Uh visit Detroit and Claude are super excited about the upbranding opportunity from the Double Tree to an embassy suites.

Embassy Suites is uh a sought-after brand that provides uh better value for the guests, which includes a free um manager's reception every evening and a free cooked order breakfast every morning.

This should help drive about a 10% occupancy increase at the property long term.

Um trying to think of what other questions right out of the gate, sorry.

This is this is my first uh time doing this, so excuse me.

Uh Richard, do I have anything I've missed or Alton?

Yeah, if you want to um just maybe we'll talk about the the accessibility and universal design, and then we can go to the uh next slide after this, um, where we touch a little bit on um some of the other uh benefits that you bring into the site.

Yeah, uh excellent.

Um Hilton and all of our franchise partners are are very um aware and engaged in creating accessible spaces.

The uh hotel itself uh is accessible um as it sits currently.

We are upgrading some of the exterior accessibility, like the currently we have swinging doors as you enter into the lobby, those will be replaced with automatic doors.

But furthermore, once the workmanship is complete, Hilton will require that our architect come out and verify all the accessibility uh meets or exceeds any codes and requirements just to ensure that the ramps are you know, nothing got missed in construction where the slopes are appropriate and the door whips are all appropriate and they require the architect to sign off on it that it is um at or better than the ADA codes.

Um so that's an extra step, I guess, of verification, is what I'm saying.

Um Hilton's really big in their sustainability efforts, and actually we have two report to Hilton on our waste and our energy usage because a lot of our corporate guests require that as part of their RFP process every year.

They want to know what their carbon footprint is as they travel and as they operate their businesses, and so that that's a big um part of what our team has to do on a monthly basis.

And so as we work through this waste reduction and energy improvement is a core focus of what we're what we're focused on.

Um job creation currently the property has um 80 full-time equivalent employees, and actually actually a couple more than that.

If all the jobs that are currently posted were filled, I think it would technically be around 83 or 84.

Um, with the addition of the Starbucks, we are going to create at least 10 new FTEs.

And we're going to also need some other assistance in both our free to ask breakfast for the cook to order, so uh a few more cooks and hosts, as well as a couple of more bartenders and servers in the evening for the um manager's reception side of the business.

And and uh maybe Peter, if you just want to talk about um that you've engaged with uh the city spoken with Kevin about yeah, we've been engaging with Kevin on the workforce side of things, both from a um a team member, but really on the contractor side of of it, our general contractor, their business is hotel renovations, but they hire local um subcontractors, so plumbing, electrical, flooring, that type of stuff.

And so we've been engaged with them on um finding local contractors to help us build it or bid out and quote um the project as we've been working through this.

So that'll work is alive and well.

I would probably and I'm shooting from the hip, and I have a couple of colleagues on the phone that could probably answer this question better than myself.

But 70 to 80 percent of the work will be completed by local Detroit contractors.

Um community support.

Obviously, this is an existing hotel, which is vital to the long-term success of all of the efforts going on downtown, including the um the Huntington place.

It's uh been very well supported and encouraged by Visit Detroit and as well as the Detroit Restaurant Lodging Association, the DRLA have been very supportive of this.

Um because it's another it's again the M the Double Tree is a great brand, but the embassy is a more attractive brand.

And so as they're out selling Detroit and why you should come and meet and host your event in Detroit, this is a another um additional benefit to that sales effort.

So I believe that.

Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead, Lake.

No, uh what I was going to explain was that our office provides a report when the certificates are um being requested, and that when we establish the district.

Thank you.

Any additional comments.

All right, seeing none, we will turn the floor over to Pro Tim Young.

Thank you.

To the chair, I can't hear pro Tim Young.

I don't know if it's I'm sorry, I forgot to turn my mic on.

I was obviously he was paying attention.

I was asking you.

Um you tell me what this project's um your eternal rate of return is.

I can get that for you.

Uh bear with me one second.

And the current IRR without the abatement is 5.14% with the abatement is 13.7%.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

Great question.

No, no, no, no.

I no, I I think that's really good.

I just also wanted to ask you what's your net present value?

And so for everybody watching, I'm asking how much is a project worth today after accounting for future cash flows.

Yeah.

Um, through the chair to Pro Tim Young.

I do not have the NPV available, but I can get that for you.

Yeah, no, that's no problem.

Uh I'll I'll I'll um if uh I'll I'll talk to our D E G C to get the email and just send it to you.

And when you can't, I mean look, look, I I I support this.

I'm not I'm not trying to hold this up.

The reason the reason why I'm asking these questions, I just like to know where we're at and what you're looking at.

So in the future, I can know are there reforms that need to be made?

Are there things that we could do to make these projects more better, more smoother, more efficient, more effective?

Um, I know that what you're talking about is that with this particular issue is not just you building, just you're asked you also adding value to the property.

You have to actually add value to the property to be able to do what you're doing.

So I understand that's a really good thing.

Uh I just also wanted to ask um from these additional services, because I've been to the I've been to the hotel um when I was campaigning for an office a long time ago, but it was fantastic.

And I and I and I and I loved it.

And so we want to definitely keep that going.

I just also want to ask you, do you have an analysis of what that hotel represents in terms of the small businesses, the spin-offs?

I I mean I I look last time I went to the to the restaurant, the food was amazing.

And I I I just had really good experience.

Now I didn't win that election.

That's the only bad, you know, uh, that's the only bad experience I had with with with that restaurant.

But uh I'm just saying, but uh, but uh but other than that, I thought it was a great, it was a great place to be.

I really liked it.

I really enjoyed it.

As on so I know there's people that go in and out of there constantly.

Uh it's a really important part and really important place, a historic place.

I just want to ask you, do you have an impact of what you have done for those small businesses?

And are there any other small businesses that have grown and spinoff jobs are taking place because of that?

And maybe that's not a question for you, maybe that's a question for DEGC.

But I just I I just really think people should know that.

Yeah, through the chair to Pro Tim Young, I do not have an analysis of the spin-off.

Um, but maybe that's something I can talk internally with the team about.

Oh, I see Peter raised his hand.

Maybe he may have uh chair and and the council.

Um the pure Michigan program and through the MEDC does have uh what the spend per overnight guest is.

Um it's a statewide average, and I don't have that right here in front of me, but I wanna say the numbers around 250 per person per night.

Um, between you know, gas, airfare, transportation, dining, shopping, and all the other, you know, ancillary spends.

And so with a 10% increase in occupancy, roughly, I could do some quick math here.

Um and try to get try to get to a quick number that would get us kind of close enough for today's conversation.

No, I I appreciate that.

And um, I also uh I don't know if we have somebody from uh DEGC or you or that that wants to speak to this as well, but I know that when I go and I talk to people that have major events, whether it's the DNC or whether it's other people that want to come to Detroit, one of the issues that they say they have is the fact that they don't have enough hotel space.

And so I think with this project, what does this do for the market in terms of us being able to have more hotels in the city of Detroit?

I I I I gotta think it's a net positive to have a hotel like the Fort Shelby in the city of Detroit, and other people thinking, well, if we can have a hotel like that, if there's a hotel like that exists, we could build more hotels around that.

We know I we got the final four coming pretty soon.

I just want to know it are are we having more?

I know they built the Shinola hotel not too long ago.

Are we is this allowing us to be able to build more hotels because of this?

Is this strengthening that economy?

And do we have like a do we have a goal long term in terms of how many hotels you want to build um downtown and you know in in and over a five or ten year period, and how this and how this project fits in that because it's gotta fit into this.

Pro Tim, that sounds like a great question for the administration and the DGC as they brainstorm on the need along with visit Detroit, uh the need for hotels and hotel rooms uh in the downtown.

Are they not available?

So Mr.

Alton Williams is from the DEGC.

I'm not sure if he can speak to that or if that's a greater conversation that needs to be had.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh through the chair to Pro Tim Young.

It's a great question.

I can speak to some of it.

I understand that we are in a massive deficit of hotel rooms in the city, and we are working to increase production of hotel rooms uh because it will make us more competitive with events.

I know you mentioned the NCAA, but you know, where the rubber meets the road for the hotel business is a lot of the more uh like high school tournaments and those types of events that bring large uh swaths of families into the city.

So I know that there are efforts being taken to increase uh hotel production.

Uh this project in particular, and I think Peter uh touched on it earlier.

Um upgrading this project helps to uh just it's more of a marketable uh project hotel when you go out and you're marketing the city.

So the up brand actually makes this a more luxurious hotel.

It puts it in a different comp set, and it's a good look when you go out to market uh the city.

Um but to Madam Chair's point, I think that it is a deeper conversation when we talk about how many hotel rooms we are uh underbuilt with and what the plans are moving forward.

I can just say one more thing because I I know that there is a hearing after this, but the DDA at the end of last year did roll out um a hotel loan program that actually uh is to assist hotel development um in the city.

So we're bullish on hotel development and bullish on uh tourism and travel coming to the city.

No, I think that's phenomenal.

And I think that's great.

I got a lot of other questions, but I think it's like uh sorry, chocolate raisins.

Um just hit me.

Um it's like um Madame Chair said it might be a little bit better for another comment.

I'm just gonna but I'm just gonna ask one of the if you don't have it, I'll just I'll just send it to you.

But I just want to know do we have the workers within the quarter mile and the tax revenue per acre and the jobs per acre.

Mr.

Williams, I will share with you that is certainly something that visit Detroit can provide a response to.

Well, I think I think the chairwoman was telling me that's my time.

So thank you, everybody.

I appreciate you.

I but just know I am a full throat support.

Thank you.

Thank you, Pro Tim Young.

And I will just say um, as a former staff member of Visit Detroit who uh worked in sales, um there that's the reason I can say that Visit Detroit should have that information for you, uh, Pro Tim Young.

But I I do just want to share with you all I have a fundamental challenge with this property, with the property itself.

Um, as you know, someone who certainly does understand the need for um our hotels to be active and look great and and provide a great um experience for individuals who who come and stay at the hotel and who come and visit Detroit.

Um I do have some questions for not for you all, which is very interesting, um, but certainly for the housing and revitalization department regarding uh the the financing structure of the hotel um before you all um look to acquire it.

Um and so I do want to I I do want to ask those questions.

This is just the district.

Um I am going to go to public comment, but pro Tim Young, I am going to ask that we bring this back in one week as a line item in order for me to have those uh discussions with the housing and revitalization department.

So um we will now turn to public comment regarding this public hearing.

If there's anyone joining us who'd like to make a public comment, please raise your hand, whether in person or virtually, please raise your hand.

Going once, going twice, going three times.

The collection of public comment has concluded.

And Ms.

Gray, how many hands do we have raised?

Madam Chair, we have six hands raised for public comment.

All right.

If you can please set the clock for one minute, 30 seconds, we'll get started with the first caller.

And if everyone can just keep track of the questions that you hear as we look to have a response from you at the conclusion of our public comment.

Who do we have first?

Our first caller is William M.

Davis.

William M.

Davis, you have one minute, 30 seconds for public comment.

I have no comments, thank you.

Thank you.

Who do we have next?

Next caller is Cindy Dara.

Cindy Dara, you have one minute, 30 seconds for public comment.

Yeah, uh, I've never paid 250 a night to sleep somewhere.

Uh, but I uh I want to know are they working on an odd hostels?

Uh they could put those in the neighborhood or even have some downtown.

That'd be good to have one downtown when I was uh going through Chicago.

I remember I I think I found a hostel right downtown that I could go to.

And they're much cheaper when I was in Europe years ago.

I was able to stay at hostels much cheaper than a hotel.

But uh I I can't argue against this how much uh seems like uh it'll get uh it'll get paid off in 15 years, and then uh we'll get the full taxes out of it.

But uh that's about all I got to say.

I just like to see you figure out how to do hostels.

If you want young people to come here, then I I want to stay in a 250 hotel.

You're gonna want to stay in a hostel.

There is one over there on Pine Street, and close to uh Woodbridge, kind of kind of I guess it's bigger in Park Town or Vermont.

That's the only one I know about.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

The next caller.

Our next caller is Owner Papa.

Owner Papa, you have one minute, 30 seconds for public comment.

Uh thank you.

And to the chair, may I be heard?

Yes.

Carolyn Hughes.

I have a question for Mr.

Williams.

He said that the return on investment for this particular project was 5.14 without the incentives and 13.7% with the incentives.

I would like to know who is that return on investment for?

Is that in terms of taxes or uh revenues for the city, or is that in terms of the developer?

Um much taxes would it be if they were not to receive this particular uh decrease in their taxes.

5.14% uh it's not a bad percentage.

I think that's what the last project uh it was less than that for that uh city um uh apartments.

So can you tell me who this return on investment is referencing and how much taxes would we gain if we did not give them this uh reduction?

And and and how much do we get in terms of taxes within this 15-year period uh if we do or 12-year-old the period is um can you tell me um the reduced taxes that would occur if this project were to go forward?

Thank you.

Thank you.

The next caller.

Our next caller is legendary Detroiter, legendary Detroit.

You have one minute, 30 seconds for public comment.

Okay, yeah, I'm dealing with a situation over here.

Now, what do you I missed the last part of the uh discussion?

But what I heard and what I do know about these proposed developments in this uh particular organization, I got numerous concerns, it's too many to uh enumerate in these two minutes or minute and 30 seconds, whatever you gave me.

Um, but I did want to bring this up and bring this to the attention.

Now, these hearings, and especially these one that you just had.

Now, I I heard some questions asked, and I got additional questions to go with those questions, but the answers that are you y'all giving are not tell the whole story about what's going on here in Detroit.

And I'm this is not a cuss word, but I'm dead nuts on it.

Now, everything in Detroit.

Now, with this hearing you just had, and this is what I what I'm having the biggest problem with.

Y'all are cheating in officials.

Y'all ain't supposed to be doing nothing.

Y'all supposed to be in prison.

Thank you for in jail.

Ms.

Great, let's move on to the next caller.

Our next caller is Mr.

Foster.

Mr.

Foster, you have one minute, 30 seconds for public comment.

Yes, ma'am.

Uh, very quickly.

I think you guys asked some excellent questions.

I think it's important that you know we rely on you to ask the questions for the tax fair to citizens here.

My questions are how long has this project been in the queue?

Secondly, um, did I hear that the state statute established uh the incentives for these developers?

Number three, where do the taxes go?

And then number five, four, rather.

Um, this city is trying to make sure that everybody at least get paid poverty.

If this city is going to give any incentives, I would ask the developers, can they re-figure their figures and make sure that all the employees are making at least 42,000 dollars to be working downtown Detroit?

Right.

We have to start changing the tide and making sure that um hospitality workers aren't overlooking relying on tips and other things, but that they can have a substantial living here in a high quality hotel or or any development that's being remodeled, then that should be reflected in the wages of your staff as well.

And if the city's gonna be given any incentives or tax breaks, then that should be highly considered in the project's um moving forward with any developers and so I think that's just very important, and uh if you guys could just you know try to figure that in.

Thank you.

Thank you.

The next caller, our last caller is Marguerite Maddox Scarlet, Miss Marguerite Maddox Scarlet.

You have the floor regarding the 1020 public hearing.

Yes, um many rooms are 88 and universal design and the BM particularly I don't make the from the outside the inside and how many park faces around this home here sensible purpose excuse me.

Um be putting up the side the same we accept service dogs only no pets because they won't uh um dear one hotel last year and that we step accessible service dogs my next I was happy and with the accessibility rooms how many how many group rooms are they gonna be um how a part of the problem the wedge rules okay I had the problem with me with the rule I think I can move the shit so I do not want to repeat that issue again so please make sure that the wounds are closest or they both but people with can't get involved a room but be a group meeting and done thank you very much thank you Miss Gray did that conclude public comment?

And then you miss Greg, did that conclude public comment?

Yes, that concludes public comment.

Thank you.

All right.

Who would like to respond to any of the questions?

Richard, didn't I see you were about to say something if you want to go first, Richard?

That's fine.

The chair with Richard Barr, and I'm having some trouble with my speaker.

So if I am not audible, or if you uh if I didn't hear something correctly, please let me know.

Um I would like uh and Miss Marguerite Matic Um's comments were not very clear to me.

So if someone's able to repeat the questions that you would like Peter or me to answer, I'd be very happy to, but uh I was following the transcript and wasn't able to uh confirm that I understood everything she was asking.

Um before we get to her comments in terms of the tax question, first of all, as the chair noted, uh this is just the district stage, and traditionally the detailed analysis of the financial numbers that go are part of the certificate application are normally not dived into in depth.

And at this point, I think the numbers right now are estimates of what they'll look like at the certificate stage.

Uh, but they're not final numbers that everybody's gone over, and and so these are ready for presentation.

Uh it in and it might be I may be uh uh sealing all this under uh but the IRR numbers are developer return numbers.

Uh and we haven't gone through those thoroughly with the DGC yet.

Uh the issue is this tax abatement uh avoids a very, very significant tax increase that would occur to the property that would make it very challenging to do the project as presented as desired by everybody.

Uh I'm not sure the IR numbers do justice to the issue.

Um, but it's a multiple hundred thousand dollar a year issue to the operations of the hotel.

Uh the exact number, I don't think we're ready to uh throw out there yet, because we're still analyzing it, and that certainly will come forward during the certificate process in the future.

Uh this just gives us the opportunity to come back with those greater details and to have discussions and and more detailed presentations on why this abatement is so important for this project.

Uh Mr.

Barr, if I can interrupt you for a minute.

Question from Mr.

Foster.

Uh as I understood it in terms of who gets the money, where the taxes go, and the uh the taxes that are paid on the challenge with the speaker are allocated to all the taxes just like any other property taxes.

Uh so the taxes paid and the taxes saved are the benefit of and the burden of the abatement uh is shared by all taxi units.

Okay, thank you to whomever um muted Mr.

Barr.

He doesn't realize he's been muted yet.

I just wanted to ask you all if you can please be brief in your responses, noting that we have another public hearing as well as the remainder of the agenda to get through.

Um and if someone can please let him know that he has been muted, and perhaps someone else can start responding to some of the questions that have been presented while Mr.

Barr um realizes that we need him to be brief.

Thank you.

Um through the chair, thank you for that, madam chair.

Uh, through the chair, Peter, uh I know that Miss Um Marguerite Mattox mentioned uh she was curious as to how many ADA slash uh universal design rooms we have in the building.

I'm not sure if you have that uh number available, how many ADA accessible parking spaces, and also if we'll have automatic door openers on site.

Yes, sir.

Uh to be brief, the property has three elevators uh for public use.

There's 14 ADA rooms in the property.

Um six, I believe, are tub rooms and eight, I believe are roll-ins.

I might have those two numbers flip-flopped here uh in mind, but there um is a lot of options there.

Parking at the hotel is all via valet parking.

The hotel does not own any sites, and we have a relationship with a valet operator.

Um that's typically how we've solved for the ADA parking issue.

Um then we can make any we have kits that make the rooms hearing and visually impaired.

Uh so any room in the property we can we can add the devices to.

It's a portable kit that we set up with um uh light sensors and and strobes and all stuff in every every room in the hotel has strobes for fire.

Um, and I know that Mr.

Foster asked uh how long has this project been in the queue?

So how long have you been working on this?

Um for over a year and a half now since our initial conversations with the seller, um, the property tax issue though, as I shared earlier was the big issue that's prevented us from moving forward sooner.

Um, you know, the uh the abatement is what is really you know allows the bank to get comfortable with them releasing the development funds to be able to proceed with the upbranding of the property.

And so that's that's really why we're here today is is from that aspect of the cash flow.

So lastly, I see Cinder Cindy Dara asked uh if you're interested in developing hostels.

Uh I've never been in the hostel business, although I've been in the hotel business my whole life.

I will say though, our initial, you know, looking uh or our initial reaction to the market and to the city as a whole is this project successful.

We would love to continue to do more uh hospitality projects in the in the city.

And um, if everything holds true, I think the city has a lot to offer.

Um as the you know, days, weeks, and years ahead of us.

So there's a lot of great things going on in Detroit, and we're just excited to be part of this.

Madam Chair, I think that may wrapped up the questions I saw.

All right, thank you so much.

Pro Tim Young.

Thank you, ma'am chair.

Uh, I just wanted to uh ask a question recently what was said about the um bank.

And basically what I heard because our property taxes are so high, I think in Detroit we have the highest property taxes of the country, and we also have the highest property tax on commercial buildings worth over a million dollars in the country, according to Lincoln Institute.

But what you just said was that um you you had a hard time being able to to get the capital you need for the bank without being able to get um this uh tax credit because the taxes are so high.

The bank felt that they could give you they couldn't get their money back unless you got this unless you got this credit, correct?

Affirmative.

So the the bank basically said, hey, if you're successful in the tax abatement process, then we'll loan you the additional money to do the renovation.

Um they're just concerned that if they weren't put to put that stipulation in there and the property taxes were to go up that we wouldn't be able to meet our debt service coverage ratios that they have uh that we've agreed to.

Okay, so let me just say this again just for clarification.

So basically what the bank told you is that listen, you need to get your tax liability lowered, otherwise we're not gonna loan you this money.

For the addition or for the remodel, yes, yes.

Wow.

All right, thank you.

I appreciate that.

All right, thank you, Pro Tim.

Uh, thank you all for responding to the questions.

Again, I would like to request a one we bring back to bring the public hearing back as a line item for additional uh conversations to be had regarding the financing uh the building prior to this conversation.

Is there a motion?

Motion.

There's a motion to bring the public hearing in line item six back as a line item in one week.

Hearing no objections, that action shall be taken.

Thank you all again so much for joining us, and um we will be in touch.

This now closes out the 1020 public hearing.

I'd like to call back to order the 1025 public hearing.

The 1025 public hearing is a proposed ordinance to amend chapter 22 of the 2019 Detroit City Code, housing by renaming Article 5, rental agencies to rental agencies and rental agreements, amending section 22-5-1.

Definitions, repealing Section 22-5-4, refund of fees paid to agencies, adding a new section 22-5-4, rental application fees, pretendency fees, non-waiver contr non-waiver, construction and relocating, and amending section 22-5-5.

Refund of fees paid to agencies, to refund the fees paid to agencies, refund of fees paid to owners or agents of rental properties to regulate rental application fees and ban pre-tenancy fees for rental properties in the city of Detroit.

All right, we have the law department that is here to share with us.

Good afternoon to this honorable committee.

Madam Chair, before I start, I'd like to say that I am also a Virgo, so I will be as direct and efficient as possible.

Thank you.

Specifically, it serves three objectives.

The first of which is rental application fees must be disclosed on any advertisements or postings about the property, and the rental application fees shall not exceed $50.

The second objective is it makes um pretendency fees unlawful unless they're otherwise um otherwise provided for in state or federal law.

And the third objective is that the refund the rental application fees will have to be refunded to the applicant if the uh property owner is unable to per uh unable to secure the accommodations for the applicant within 60 days of applying.

And with that, if you have any questions, I will do my best to address them.

Thank you.

Uh Pro Tim Young.

Thank you, madam chair.

Uh thank you.

Uh excellent breakdown as always.

I just wanted to ask you, do we have a analysis of what impact this would have on the landlords and what impact this would have on um the apartment industry as a whole through the Chair Graham Anderson Law Department?

I would defer to the administration if any such uh financial analysis has been completed at this time.

Okay.

I don't think we have anybody from the administration that will probably speak to that.

Do we have somebody good afternoon through the chair?

Um, I don't believe that the budget office has received a request for an analysis on this item.

Um I would have to defer to member waters' team if they have requested that.

Okay.

I understand the rationale behind this because you know I I I remember not too long ago there was probably right before the closing of a certain house I was going into.

You you were surprised with fees, and you know, I don't like surprises unless it's on my birthday.

So I understand where people are coming from, but I also just have an understanding.

I think that it usually I'd be okay with this, but in this economy in this time, I don't know if people are relying on these fees or not.

I don't know if this between people staying here or not.

I don't know what impact this is gonna have on businesses, and I understand that this is something that we're doing one, because we want to make sure that everybody is on the up and up, but secondly is about affordability, and thirdly, is because we don't have the power to deal with rent control.

So I understand that, but I just think that um we just need to be clear that in our laudable goal of making housing affordable and achieving the goals of the administration of building 1,100 houses that we need that we're not running businesses out of here or landlords out of here, particularly our small mom and pop landlords that rely on these fees.

And so I just like to have some sort of economic analysis or breakdown of what this means to them in terms of their bottom line.

So it might it might be negligible, and that's fine, but I just need to know that before I make this decision.

So thank you, Mayor President.

Is that a motion?

No, well, I wasn't gonna make it, but I I didn't know how you felt about this.

I didn't know if you want to move this forward.

I do have some questions.

Yeah, we know I was out no, I wasn't making a motion at all.

I just I'm done with my questions.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um, so I am wondering how this will be enforced.

Um, it's my understanding that BC that this would be enforced through the property maintenance section of B seed.

Um, and it would presumably be done on a complaint basis where if an applicant was aggrieved by a landlord, they would file a complaint and then they would take it from there, look into it, and then move forward with obviously.

Um, and it would presumably be done on a complaint basis, where if an applicant was aggrieved by a landlord, they would file a complaint and then they would take it from there, look into it, and then move forward with um obviously I think uh they would move forward with uh adjudicating that or um because my understanding of this chapter is a violation of any section of the chapter would be a misdemeanor, but it would be handled by B seed through their property maintenance uh division and be on a complaint basis.

Okay, thank you for that.

Um I wonder if we've given any thought to um how this process works.

Well, I I appreciate capping the application fee, and I think that's the goal because that has been a number of questions or concerns that I've heard.

Um I'm not a landlord, I've never been a landlord.

Um, but when I think about an application fee, and if a landlord goes through a an income verification process, a background check or anything that they may be doing, it costs money to do that.

So have we taken into consideration um those costs because we say that if the person is does not receive um housing by this particular person they've applied to, that they the landlord is then required to give them their money back when the landlord may have incurred fees themselves to go through a verification process.

Madam Chair, I understand your concern.

Um however, the way I read the ordinances once an applicant applies, the application fee would be $50.

The only time it would trigger a refund is if the landlord would be unable to provide the accommodations for them in 60 days.

That's a relevant policy consideration, but not I not as much a legal issue.

Other mus municipalities in the state have adopted similar ordinances as have other municipalities in other states, but it's a legitimate policy consideration.

And so I'm I'm still not hearing a response to that.

So like if if five people applied for one apartment or one house, um and the landlord, the owner of the property, the property manager or whomever goes through a verification process for those five individuals, but again, I'm not a landlord and I never have been.

So I don't know if they take them one at a time and say, okay, I'm going through a verification process for the first person who applied, and if I decide not to rent to them, then I go to the second, the third, the fourth, and the fifth, or would they do a verification on all five of them and say, okay, I'm going to rent to this person.

And then that means after going through the verification process, they are now required to refund the money for the four people that they did not provide housing for.

Is that correct?

Or am I not ready for the remote?

No, you're correct.

You are correct, madam chair.

That would also be my m understanding.

I'm also not a landlord.

I don't know how many applications they submit, but based on the way the ordinance is written, if five people were to apply, if I owned a piece of property and five people applied, and I was unable to per to secure accommodations for that applicant for the other four, then the landlord would be required to return the application.

Okay.

Um I wonder if and I I thought the uh sponsor ordinance was gonna be here as well.

Um I wonder if we have given any thought or consideration to landlords potentially increasing their rent to be able to cover these costs.

Madam Chair, I'm sorry I don't have the answer to that.

Through the chair.

Um I do know uh council member Waters staff is here and is listening very closely to address all these concerns, and um I'm confident that her team as well as um any other necessary parties are willing to address any of these concerns.

Okay.

All right, thank you for that.

All right, I think that is all that I had.

Pro Tim Young.

Yeah, thank you, manager.

I I also wanted to ask that if they do increase the rent, um, how much would this we have to increase the right to counsel program in order to kind of make up for that as well?

I mean, I I think that'd be a real good question uh if they're doing that.

Now I now this doesn't have anything to do with fees, but I have a question overall about um and I think it's something that member waters brought up, but it was something about when you're going into these rental facilities, they ask that you make so much more money above your salary.

And so I don't know that if we got rid of this with that number also increase as well, the fee aspect.

So the rent increases, but also because you know they're not getting the fees that they would charge with that aspect increase.

Because it's like they're asking you to make so much more money than you already make.

And so I just want to know how does that interact.

Are there connections with that or is there no nexus with that at all?

Through through the chair to uh pro Tum Young, though those are fantastic questions, and um, as you know, we we don't operate in a vacuum here.

Right.

Um legislatively, there's other factors that impact things, and sometimes things are um harder to anticipate how it will be affected, others it might be a little bit more obvious.

Um so I can't provide any insight into that, but all these questions are obviously very um uh on point to uh to what we're discussing.

Um, but we we look forward to addressing uh these in more detail at uh later date.

Uh no, I I'm done.

Um I think uh Ms.

Underwood wants to say something, but I'll finish Mayor Chair.

Thank you.

Let me add a couple of things first.

So um one, I I would love for us to look into the verification process.

So one of the things we had thought about is if there is an entity that can do the verifications and an individual who is seeking um an apartment or to rent, there she is.

If the clerk will please note that member waters has joined us, clerk was so note.

Thank you.

Um, and so if there if there's an entity that can do the verification of income of backgrounds or whatever the verification process is, and then that individual who's looking to rent, they have a document that shows that they have gone through this very verification process and they can submit that to any landlord, property management company that they're looking to rent from.

So by then not having each landlord to have to go through the process and maybe have it for 60 days or however long, um, then I think this would be more palatable for me because then I can see you now having to refund somebody the $50 because you have not had to do anything.

They've provided to you their verification documents.

Um if you can rent to them, wonderful.

If you're not able to because you've rented to someone else now, okay, you have to return the application fee.

Um that's one.

And then the other thing is if they're let's say I do have a rental property and I have something similar to what pro Tim Young mentioned.

If I require, and I'm not sure that you can do this, um, but if I require that you make five times as much as the rent, um, that you cannot have a pet, that you um you are the only person that can reside in the property, so on and so forth.

If you do not meet the requirements, then basically you shouldn't apply for the property.

Um because you you don't meet the requirements, but now you've given me the $50 application fee, and then I do a verification on all of this information and have had to pay for it.

If we don't go to the centralized um approach, then now I have to return your application fee, although you didn't meet the requirements, whatever they were, um, before you even applied for the property.

So we'll turn to Member Waters.

Member Waters, I'm not sure if you heard the the conversation.

Um basically it is in regards to returning the $50 application fee.

If you have had to go through a process to verify a person's income background or anything of that nature, and had to pay to do those things.

So now the owner of the property, property manager or whomever is having to cover those costs because they're required to now return the $50 application fee.

Well uh thank thank you uh Madam Chair.

Um yes, I I've missed most of the conversation, but I just want to and it sounds like the law department has kind of gone through the the ordinance.

Okay.

Um but our concern uh is the fact that um people are being charged too much for these application fees.

That that's the huge concern.

And you know, and there's no consistency either.

Uh you might have um one company uh or or a renter that might charge uh one landlord might charge uh 50, 75, 150.

The average is about 150, but in some instances, uh you might have 250 dollars.

It depends.

There's just nothing here to prevent them from charging whatever they want to.

And so that was the um the spirit that this ordinance was created in uh to try and help protect renters who simply cannot afford to pay application fee one after another.

Now I I did hear you at at the tail end talk about a centralized um location, and I don't believe that we have one.

Uh is anybody know what a centralized location is?

Um yeah, see see, we don't have that, so we can only work with what we currently have, madam chair, um, unless you have some suggestions about creating a centralized location and and how's it how's that gonna happen?

So we're just trying right now to protect as many uh renters as possible uh by saying listen, let's let's at least cap this.

And so I believe we we decided to do a three to five year uh review, you know, okay, we come back in about five years and see if in fact that $50 rate um is is still okay, or if in fact we can allow a small uh increase.

Thank you for that, Member Waters.

I will say I'm supportive of the $50 cap.

Yeah.

Because I've heard of those concerns and challenges as well.

Um I believe there are some independent companies that do verification checks and screens.

So my my thought, my suggestion was really around having the renter to go through that process.

Perhaps they pay this entity one time, yeah, and the documentation lasts for a couple months or what have you that they can provide to the landlords.

So that process has already been done.

Then then we would need to know who those independent companies are, agencies are.

Yeah, I'm not sure.

So that yeah, because that's that's something that that would need to be published so that people know that they have access to to search um to such uh agencies.

I mean, I mean it's a great idea, depending on how many we have, where they are, and who actually knows about them.

Okay, and and I don't know how to get that information to them.

I'm not sure either.

I I suppose we could all search and uh see if we can find, or maybe talk to some uh landlords and see if they use any specific companies.

All right, thank you.

Pro Tim Young.

Thank you.

And uh I I just wanted to ask this question as well.

Um I know that we have a income discrimination ordinance that passed.

I want to know does it cover this type of stuff if it's deemed to be discriminatory, the with hers is with the fees or arbitrary in terms of with the how the fees are being implemented.

And it it also I I I just I just want to know, it is also cover what I talked about earlier.

It's hers of um you have to make so much more times over your income amount.

I thought that that was kind of covered where you could discriminate against people trying to come in to be your income.

I thought we already had something on the books about that.

So I just want to know do we have something that deals with this already, or or do we have to have this ordinance to be able to deal with that?

And and and how and how does this play with the landlords and the power they have and what they can't do and what would this do to the market through the chair to um council uh pro tem pro tem young, sorry um those are legitimate concerns.

I personally did not draft the ordinance that you are referencing, and unfortunately, I I don't know the answer to that question.

However, the law department can look into that inquiry and get back to you with respect to any alternatives that this uh committee may have to the proposals here.

The law department would be happy to evaluate your um your idea of the independent entity.

We would also be happy to look into the issue about um the the qualifications and any discrimination that may be involved, but that's a little outside the scope, so I don't have the answers readily available, but we'd be happy to address them at a later date.

No, because that's what I was thinking.

I was thinking, like, is this are is there laws that already kind of deal with this?

And is this just a deforcement issue?

Is this just you know a financially investing in the department issue?

But I think there's actually had to be this actually has to be done through ordinance if we want to do this.

I don't have a problem with it if it doesn't impact the landlord side of the business too much.

I don't think it does.

I for what it sounds like to me, it's probably the revenue is probably negligible.

I just want to just check, I just want to dive my eyes across my T's with doing this because I've talked to some landlords and they had some major issues with some things going on.

So I don't again, I I don't see this being an issue, but I've gotten in trouble, you know, you know, thinking it wasn't the issue that it was in the past.

So I would just like to be able to find out for myself.

But that's all the questions I have, uh, madam uh chair.

Thank you.

Uh member waters, uh if you did, if if you can be brief, we do have to go to public comments.

Okay, gotcha.

Uh, we did take a look at the uh city of um Ann Arbor, who who's doing it.

We also had a conversation uh with a major landlord, in my opinion.

They basically just ask, okay, um uh can you just at least allow another review after a few years to see if in fact we might need to increase it uh you know the um uh the fee a little bit more.

So we we were open to that.

But you know that that sounded uh pretty reasonable, but there's a there's one lady that called our office.

Um I I want to say it was 1500, 2500.

She had to go to court.

They wouldn't give her, they would not, they refuse to return her money.

But these are the kinds of things that are happening uh to people, and people cannot afford to continue to pay unexpected fees for one, and there's no consistency in what those fees are.

I I didn't hear anything uh from any landlords other than uh one major one that that I that I just mentioned, um, because it is a reasonable request.

All right, thank you, thank you, Member Waters.

Uh, we are now going to turn to public comment.

If there is anyone joining us virtually, seeing no one in the committee of the whole with their hand raised.

If you would like to make a public comment, please raise your hand regarding the 1025 public hearing going once, going twice, going three times.

The collection of public comment has concluded.

Miss Great, how many hands do we have raised?

Madam Chair, we have three hands raised for public comment.

All right, thank you.

We'll stick with the one minute 30 seconds and get started with the first caller.

Our first caller is Cindy Dara.

Cindy Dara, you have one minute, 30 seconds for public comment.

Cindy Dara, are you there?

Let's come back to Miss Cindy Dara.

Our next caller is Owner Papa.

Owner Papa, you have one minute 30 seconds for public comment regarding the public hearing.

Okay, Miss Great, let's come back to owner Papa.

And who do we have next?

Our next caller is Marguerite Maddox Scarlet.

Miss Marguerite Maddox Scarlet, you have the floor regarding the 1025 public hearing.

Yes, man.

Thank you.

Um my question.

It's jinking.

And then um see that you work.

Um didn't the happening that exists to be guessed to be tenant that round chick and um have um they do winter me had to pay for and not as he dad.

And uh I'm just I mean fifty uh two fifty on hand when dear decline get the money back.

We're not going to court.

Um thank you.

Who do we have next?

We are going back to Cindy Dara.

Miss Cindy Dara, you have one minute thirty seconds for public comment.

Yeah, uh I'd like to know uh can what will we have to do to get the state to allow us to have rent control?

And uh that I all these programs, you know, where you're giving these tax abatements for thirty-five years or twenty-five years, whatever.

What happens when those are over and then they can go back to market rate rent and we helped them get started, but uh um I mean I'm looking into the future of our children grandchildren and so forth.

I don't know how they're gonna be able to afford this system has to be looked at.

I mean, there are people running for governor that want to take all the property taxes away.

Well, we gotta finance our government, but of course we could try to get our revenue sharing back so that we don't have to depend so much on property tax for our budget.

And uh there's a Canada that wants to have I think Abdullah mentions having the city be able to have their own sales tax.

Well, why don't we just get the revenue sharing back for the whole state?

I mean, we gotta work with the rest of people.

They're hurting all over the state.

And I don't think these tax uh this whole thing on on property taxes doesn't make sense to me.

Thank you.

The next caller.

Our last caller is owner papa.

Owner Papa, you have one minute thirty seconds for public comment.

Uh thank you.

And to the chairman Abby Hurt.

Yes.

Thank you, uh, councilwoman waters for this um looking out for the the the the tenants, the people who rent homes.

Uh Councilwoman Johnson.

There is something called the cost of doing business.

If you want to do business and you and you you do you you you ask for an application fee, but you don't provide the housing for whatever reason.

It should be refunded.

And I think there should be a cap on what it you'd be surprised what they pay to have this done.

It's it's not prohibitively expensive, and I'm pretty sure they they they carve out a little bit for themselves.

Um but the refund to people who don't get the apartment or the housing is chalked up to be the cost of doing business.

They'll find someone who qualifies, but I don't think the people who don't qualify should be uh punished.

They could use that $50 on another apartment.

So just chalk it up to the cost of doing business because there are costs to doing business, and being a landlord is one of the costs.

They have other things that they have to do in order to prepare their property.

So that's just one of them.

If you want to say the cost of doing business is the cost of doing business.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And it looks like I missed a hand in the committee of the whole.

Hello, may I be heard?

The volume is low, but we can hear you.

I'm here in my capacity as a resident, not as an employee, but um just wanted to chime in on this comment.

Um, my name is Michelle Oberholzer, and um I have helped some friends to try to find rental housing, and as a result of that difficult process, came up with some policy ideas that I would like to suggest and and just react to what I see in the ordinance.

Thank you, Member Waters, for the ordinance.

Um I think that a lot can be done with proper disclosure.

In my experience, um, I've seen people who absolutely would not qualify and would not have bothered to apply had they known the qualifications.

If there is a minimum credit, if there's a pet, if whatever that may be, disclosure should be provided.

I do believe that there are some bad actors who use rental applications as a revenue stream.

And um, so absolutely disclosure of the disqualifying criteria should be done so that people save their time and money.

Similarly, I think that if the purchase or if the payment um toward the application is used to pay for a credit check, that that document should be made available to the applicant.

It is theirs and should be accepted for some period of time, say six months, by all other landlords, so that their credit's not being dragged down, and so that um that step is saved because there's really no point.

No one benefits from just running this check.

Um thank you.

Your time has thank you.

Um response to anything that was shared to either the sponsor or to the law department.

Um I'm asking for a response to any anything that was um mentioned during public comment.

Member Waters, all right.

So that there was um I certainly agree with um um it's uh Hughes who call in who talked about the cost of doing business, and and certainly what um the last speaker just talked about, and that that is um you know it it becomes a revenue stream for for a lot of these landlords, and and and and certainly we we've got to do something about that because our homeless population is continuing to grow.

And and I want to talk with her a little bit further, uh, because there might be some additional things.

Um I'm talking to Miss Oban.

What's her name?

Oberhouse.

Oh, yeah.

There might be some things that that that we can uh we can do a little bit further to uh to make it even a lot uh better for for our renters here in this city.

I don't know if we'll ever be able to get rent controls.

That is that is a lasting issue, and and every time that is mentioned, they seem to carry a big stick there and beat it right down.

So and Pro Tim knows uh exactly uh how that works around around Lansing.

So we'll have to we have to do all that we can here at the local level.

I'd like to hear from law if they have have no pa any thoughts about some of the comments that were made.

Uh thank you through the chair to uh council member waters.

Um with respect to the what can be done on the state level, obviously I would suggest that they contact their legislature and and ask that we have a seat at the table with respect to rent control.

There's not much that the city can do on its end, and and I know that if we could we would um as we're trying to address some of the problems that we're having on this level.

With respect to the public comment made by um Mrs.

Obenholzer correctly, I think she brings up some very uh excellent points.

I think that a few of the points that she mentioned regarding disclosure of you know what the qualifications are, those could possibly be incorporated into some of the sections of this ordinance right now.

We may want to spend some time with her to address any other great ideas that she has.

Anyone who's ever worked with her knows that she is a gem when it comes to almost everything.

Um but I do think that some of the suggestions that she made that uh council member waters would probably really want to sit down with her and consider making some amendments before we move this forward.

Um definitely based on some of the um some of the uh comments that she made, they would be substantive changes so that we we would not be able to move forward with those unless we re-noticed the ordinance.

Yeah, um through the chair, of course, would be council member waters' preference, how she wants to move forward with this.

Um let me member waters before you proceed.

Let me ask a question.

If we were to bring this back as a continued public hearing, would we still need to go through another public hearing?

Through the chair if there were substantive amendments were made to the ordinance we would, yes.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

Member Waters.

Yeah, I I I like some of the things that she was saying, and I am so because we want this to be the very best ordinance that we can have, and I'm certainly open uh to that.

Um she can work with uh my my staff person here, uh Joanna Underwood, who's sitting right out there, and and and let's let's get this done.

Um Madam Chair, I don't mind um um making the the ordinance a lot better.

I don't have a problem with that.

All right, thank you.

Through the chair and the law department, always room for improvement.

Yep, but we we always want to put forward the best piece of piece of legislation both legally and practically.

So um what we appreciate that, council member waters.

Thank you.

Well, I appreciate all of this.

Um I would love to see this done before we have a public hearing because now we're gonna have to have another public hearing.

I I I know I wish it had been brought to us, uh, Madam Chair.

But and through the chair, we really value this committee's time and the hard effort that I know council member Johnson uh and her staff puts into this committee.

And and as you know, the uh slots for public hearings are very tight.

So in high demand.

It it probably won't come back until after recess, member waters, just so you're alone.

Yeah, we have things in the queue next month.

In about six weeks, yes.

We have a lot in the queue already.

So how shall we proceed?

Pro Tim Young.

Thank you.

Um Madam Chair, I just I just have some quick questions.

Um I just wanted to ask.

One, is there a connection between the registr the rental unit registration rates, uh the certificate of compliance uh attainment rates and the licensing compliance rate or licensing renewal rate to abuse of use of fees?

You know what I mean?

Because a lot because you have a lot of these folks that are evicting people for what I read, they were evicting illegally because they didn't have the proper licensing for the building in the first place.

They did not comply with the uh property registration ordinance, they didn't have their certificate of compliance.

So I just want to know is there a connection between those things and people abusing the fee system process.

And can we use that?

You know what I'm saying?

The more people that we register, the more we could be able to track to see how they're using those fees to be able to enforce this law.

Uh through Madam Chair to Pro Tem Young, I think that would be uh a question for BC, they would have access to that information.

All right.

Oh done, thank you.

And through the chair for recommendations for the next action for this item, uh law department would recommend if acceptable for this body uh bring back TBD.

Is there a motion to bring line item seven back for a date to be determined?

We know for certain we're not gonna take it up before before we know we're not gonna take it up until after break, right?

We know that for certain.

I'm I'm sure, yes.

I I just I have a question.

So member waters.

Thank you, thank you, madam chair.

So the changes that that we might add will trigger another um hearing, is that what you're saying?

Through the chair most likely.

Um couple things that she said, actually.

Through the chair, yes, they would be substantive enough that it would uh require an additional public hearing.

But as you said, we want to make sure it's done right.

So yeah, I I do want to make sure that there are improvements.

Um so attorney Anderson, you're asking to bring this public hearing back for a date to be determined.

Why would we instead of um closing this out and removing it?

Removal would also be appropriate.

Okay.

Are you waiting for me to recess Dr.

Powers?

No, ma'am.

I was just um going to chime in on what should be done um relative to the item if you were going to be bringing the line, the issue that's in the public hearing back at a date to be determined, uh, and simply closing out the public hearing.

I don't know that removing it would be appropriate.

So Dr.

Powers, even if there are substantive changes to this um ordinance that would require another public hearing.

It ma'am, I'm suggesting the issue itself, which is the ordinance, could be brought back as a line item at a date to be determined, at which time um you could get the public hearing introduced the new the new version of the ordinance introduced in a public hearing set.

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Let's not remove it.

I I'm not certain I follow that because if we had a public hearing for the amendment, then we would move on that item.

So why would what how would we handle this item if it were a line item on the agenda?

Okay, you you you the alternative is simply to close out the public hearing without taking any action on the issue uh on which the public hearing is heard.

Got it.

Okay.

But I just didn't I didn't feel comfortable with removing it.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

All right.

Anything additional seeing none.

This now closes out the 1025 public hearing.

That was the action pro tip.

Okay, we are we are going to move on to unfinished business.

We do not.

We do not.

It was the public hearing, and so we will look forward to um an updated version of the ordinance and hold a public hearing for that.

Yes.

All right.

That now um before we proceed with unfit unfinished business, I'd like to recess the planning and economic development committee to the call of the chair.

Neighborhood community service standing committee will now come into order.

Will the clerk please call the roll?

Council President pro temporary comment.