Thank you.

We are now back in session.

And we are back at the 1020 public hearing.

And we were at the moment where public comment had just concluded and giving everyone who is before us an opportunity to respond to the questions.

Who would like to begin?

If if I may, I'd like to address a couple of the questions.

Did accurately talk about the net fiscal benefit to the city, um, or the general fund, and no, I didn't misspeak.

Um we do uh a fair amount of analysis and coming up with projections uh based on um you know property value today, what we anticipate the value of the property uh going to after the improvements, uh the taxes that will be paid, the uh number of uh projected jobs and the incomes uh associated with the permanent jobs as well as the construction jobs, um, and then the utility uh users taxes and the revenue sharing and all of the revenue sources uh that uh uh are derived as a result of the development, we net out uh, and well I think one caller uh mentioned city services, we net out the cost of additional city services uh because of the development, like the the additional strain to the uh uh water and sewer uh systems, the uh necessity for uh more police and fire.

And so we net out the cost of city services and then we project the the net benefit to the city.

So uh no, I did not misspeak, and then there was a question uh with respect to the 30 percent.

Um I think uh a very conservative estimate with respect to uh new residents into the city that will occupy uh units as well as uh that will um you know uh um be recipients of jobs is a prudent thing to just protect the integrity of our estimates.

I I anticipate uh and would love to see a hundred percent of the new residents uh coming from the city and a hundred percent of the of the jobs uh uh from Detroiters, but I think uh it's just prudent to be conservative, so that's why we use uh uh uh 30 percent and um I think the rest were uh mainly comments, and so that is uh the our answers or my answers uh to the questions that that I gather.

Mr.

Howe, there was a question regarding the return on investment.

I know you indicated during the presentation, but can you just speak on that very briefly?

Oh yeah, sure.

Uh you're absolutely correct.

Um let me just pull this up.

Well, in the essence of time, while Mr.

Howe pulls that up, if there is anyone else who'd like to respond to questions, please do so.

Oh here, I got it.

Uh uh.

Um the uh rate of return without the incentives uh is three percent, three point uh one percent.

Uh the rate of return with the incentives is seven point two seven percent.

And so with the amount of equity the developers committed committing to the project, as well as the risk associated with uh owning uh and operating uh a hotel and just the overall risk of the project and three percent is not adequate.

Uh so the uh incentives not only make the project feasible, but uh by the same token allow for a reasonable rate of return, or seven percent is a reasonable rate of return.

Uh we would start to see uh or or have some issues with the length of the abatement if we were uh north of 10%, but you know, we we've got quite a bit of ways to go before they get to 10%.

So that's the rate of return with or without the incentives.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

I believe there was a question in regards to the expectations of um how the building would proceed once the abatement has expired.

Um the uh Mr.

Howell, I'm not sure that that's a question for you.

Okay, ma'am.

Yeah, I'll be I'll be happy to answer.

Uh hopefully by the time the abitment has expired with uh inflation with hopefully we achieve 100% capacity, and hopefully our loan burden will be significantly less in in about 15 years.

So the project will be able to sustain itself with the then assessed value.

It will definitely survive because a lot is happening there.

Right now we are alone in this battle.

We're turning a vacant zombie building to a thriving building.

Hopefully, in 12 years, that whole area will be thriving, and the whole city would be thriving again.

It is thriving now.

So we anticipate that we would be able to survive after 15 years.

Thank you.

All right.

Pro Tim Young, anything further, noting that we do have the second half of this project in the next public hearing and a fully uh lengthy agenda.

If not, uh is there a motion on line item six motion to approve line of six.

There's a motion to send line item six to formal with a recommendation to approve.

Hearing no objections, that action shall be taken.

All right, and that now closes out the 1020 public hearing.

I'd like to call back to order the 1025 public hearing.

Noting that the 1025 public hearing is the exact same project that we just discussed.

Um I will yield the floor to Mr.

Cook or Mr.

Howe.

Thank you.

To the chair, I will allow Mr.

Howe to present his presentation.

Thank you.

Thank you, Justice.

Uh Madam Chair May asked, just say a few words.

Yes, please.

A few.

This uh hearing is is for PA 146.

It's the Oprah uh or obsolete property rehabilitation act, which provides a reduction on future increases in property taxes as a result of uh the rehabilitation of existing obsolete commercial or residential properties.

Uh this specific uh abatement uh is just for the commercial space.

Um and it's for the district only.

Uh, and the district itself does not grant the tax exemption.

Only property owners who make specific investments in the property will be eligible to request an exemption certificate uh in the proposed district.

Uh future property owners, uh, if the building is sold or transferred or if title is transferred, uh, will need to apply to the city of Detroit for a certificate.

It must be approved by Detroit City Council and the Michigan Tax Michigan State Tax Commission to receive uh the exemption.

Uh I will uh uh and the development team and myself will be before you in the not too distant future uh seeking the certificate.

Um just a uh one more note, ma'am.

Uh on April 17th of this year, the assessor's office wrote a letter confirming this project meets the eligibility requirements uh for an open district.

Um with respect to uh time and that's uh that concludes my presentation.

Thank you.

So we will move into public comment, uh, and then I will identify whether or not my colleague has any additional questions.

If you would like to make a public comment in regards to the public hearing, the 1025 public hearing, please raise your hand, whether in person or virtually, noting that this is the exact same um public hearing or the exact same project that we just discussed in the 1020 public hearing.

Please raise your hand virtually, noting that there are no hands raised in the committee of the whole going once, going twice, going three times.

The collection of public comment has concluded.

How many hands do we have raised?

Madam Chair, we have three hands raised for public comment.

Please provide one minute 30 seconds for public comment, and who do we have first?

Our first caller is how are any Zs even legal when property owners are being treated unequally?

Caller, you have one minute 30 seconds for a public comment regarding the public hearing.

Caller, are you there?

Who do we have next?

Our next caller is Owner Papa.

Owner Papa, you have one minute, 30 seconds for public comment regarding the public hearing.

Oh, I I had to step away.

I'm sorry.

That on the the last one, the return on investment, was that given for the project with and without the um the uh tax subsidies?

Um I'm not sure if it was given, but um, I would like to know that.

And Mr.

Young, I'm not sure.

I didn't hear your answer to what you considered minority.

You brought it to the uh public hearing, and I would like an answer because at that point you became part of the public hearing.

So please answer the question.

What do you consider a minority?

Um minority.

I'm pretty sure you can't hear me.

Yes, we can hear you.

Hello.

Oh, okay.

It sounds like someone's speaking in the background.

Um so I don't know how this considered obsolete property when it was just vacated in 2025.

It's obsolete to what it was an office building, and it is not obsolete as an office building.

And it's never been uh what you want it to be, so it can't be obsolete from that.

So I'm not sure.

This sounds like a little bit of um craziness to me.

How can this be obsolete property when a Fortune 500 company just moved out of it a few uh months ago to go to another building that we subsidize?

So now you want us to subsidize this building with uh million dollar condos.

Um, I'm not sure if this is conducive for the majority population in the city of Detroit.

Thank you.

Thank you.

The next caller.

Our next caller is caller ending in 534.

Caller ending in 534.

You have one minute, 30 seconds for a public comment regarding the public hearing.

Good afternoon.

May I be heard?

Good afternoon, yes.

Yeah, well, I uh second the emotions of the last caller.

This the only reason this building is obsolete is like she said, this Fortune 500 company decided uh move to another building and pulled the big switcheroo, it looks like how many of you have gotten money campaign contributions from uh Dan Gilbert, this company or any of their affiliates or General Motors because it the only reason, like the last caller said, it's obsolete by design.

It's not because, oh my god, the whole economy collapsed and they can't get anybody there.

No, they decided to move so that they could give Gilbert or whoever he's associated with here, the waterfront property.

This is such a scam, it's so scandalous.

And how are any these fair to everybody else?

Can somebody answer that question?

I think I brought that up the last time.

I didn't hear an answer.

This is a planned obsolescence.

It's not that it just happened on his own because the market forces they decided to move.

That's what happened.

And there was public money that went into that building in the first place, and now they're asking for more money to privatize it.

This is scandalous, folks.

When are you gonna care about the little people in Detroit?

When are you gonna fix the unfair tax scheme to begin with?

This is planned obsolescence.

It didn't just you know happen beyond their control.

It was planned obsolescence.

And did you get money?

Did you council members get money from thank you?

The next caller.

Madam Chair, the last caller lowered their hand, and there was one hand raised after you cut off public comment.

Thank you.

That concludes our collection of uh comments.

And who would like to respond first?

Attorney Barclay.

I do not need to respond to this one, but when we finish when we close out this public hearing, I do need to go back to the NEC.

Okay.

Uh Madam Chair, if if I may address the uh returns.

Yes.

Uh without the incentives, the return is three percent with the returns.

Uh I'm sorry, with the incentives, the the return is seven percent.

Mr.

Mr.

How are you able to um share what a an obsolete property is based on the definition?

Yes.

Uh when uh an owner or developer uh has to uh when the when the use is dramatically changing uh from one in you know intended or or pass use to the intended use uh of you know office space and uh light retail to mainly uh F and B food and bread beverage.

That's a you know, change in use uh and uh uh an overhaul of the systems uh and systems being electrical heating and cooling and plumbing, um, and a number of of other costs that have to uh be incur to change to significantly to significantly change one use to another uh property is rendered obsolete.

That's one way of uh defining an obsolete uh property, and that's what's used here, and it's frankly, you know, not us, uh the developer nor DGC, the the assessor actually makes that call.

Thank you.

And I think uh Mr.

Gilbert was mentioned uh Mr.

Gilbert does not have an interest uh in this property, uh, nor did he ever.

This is you know completely owned by Stockbridge.

Um and so Stockbridge is the developer and and uh uh the principals uh of Stockbridge are the owners.

Thank you.

And can someone please clarify which tower we're referring to?

This is the 600 tower, the one that's further east.

Thank you.

All right, thank you for that.

Any additional responses?

Excuse me, um, Madam Chair, the uh I I wanted to also just clarify that uh this tower did not have a Fortune 500 tenant move out of it.

Um there are uh nonprofit uh tenants today, uh as well as um you know very small footprint of office use.

So um that is why the the owners determined that um it's a a higher and better use for this tower to be converted into the hotel and apartment space.

Um there are uh nonprofit uh tenants today uh as well as um you know very small footprint of office use so um that is why the the owners determined that um it's a a higher and better use for this tower to be converted into the hotel and apartment space um so I just wanted to clarify that uh so there's no confusion over you know any big users moving out recently uh very small portion of the building is currently occupied thank you all right seeing no further um responses pro Tim Young you know I just wanted to ask the question about minorities I was just I'll just refer to uh people of color thank you all right pro Tim Young if I don't have any additional questions if you do not is there a motion on line item seven the 1025 public hearing saying no say it last time again the 10 what the 1025 public hearing right uh motion to uh move to formal session with approval the 1025 hearing public hearing there is a motion to send line item seven to formal with recommendation to approve hearing no objections that action shall be taken thank you all so much that now closes out the 1025 public hearing and attorney barcliffe um i just wanted to to note that we sent you the motion was to send the um the NEZ to formal session for approval however this item needs to sit in committee for 60 days and come back I believe in September instead of going to formal session I think it's July it's July well no it's June now so it still needs to be this along we can we can figure out the days but it doesn't need to go to the um to the formal at this time all right thank you for that um pro Tim Young is there a motion to reconsider the vote on line item six motion reconsider the vote on line item six hearing no objections that action shall be taken is there a motion to bring line item six back as a line item motion bring back line of six as a line item for a date to be determined for a date to be determined hearing no objections that action shall be taken thank you all thank you ma'am that now brings us to unfinished business you all have a wonderful day you're you can feel free to exit thank you line item eight point one is the status of council member latitia johnson submit a submitting memorandum request and report on the community outreach ordinance is there a motion to discuss very briefly motion discuss discussion thank you uh pro Tim I did want to respond to a question that came to us via public comment um just to know that this was really um us just trying to understand the community outreach ordinance when it gets triggered how it is being implemented and seeking um some information insight on expanding uh the from 300 feet to something greater so that we are doing outreach to more of our residents uh with that being said is there a motion to receive and file line item 8.1 motion received a file line 8.1 hearing no objections that action shall be taken line item 8.2 is submittee memorandum relative to a request for a policy framework to refine the city's nuisance abatement property seizure and condemnation processes there's a request for a one week bring back again there is a request for a one week bring back is there a motion okay motion to bring back in one week hearing no objections that action shall be taken line item 8.3 was brought back as a line item this is a commercial redevelopment request for a commercial redevelopment district for the Fort Shelby hotel any discussion discussion pro Tim Young yes um does this have anything to do with the um nine no that's something different there mine this is the public hearing that we held last week pro Tim and I do have some um some some things that I still have not resolved but I'm willing to move forward but without recommendation at this time that's the only way it's gonna move out pro Tim I don't reckon because there are only two of us there are only two of us so that's the only I know I don't like this I don't like this I don't like this position right now I feel the pressure and I don't like it.

And I do have some some things that I still have not resolved, but I'm willing to move forward, but without recommendation at this time.

That's the only way it's gonna move out, Pro Tim.

I don't reckon because there are only two of us.

There are only two of us.

So that's the only thing.

I know.

I don't like this.

I don't like this.

I don't like this position right now.

I feel the pressure and I don't like it.

Um this I'm sorry, discussion.

Discussion.

So you so you have some questions.

Now l let me just ask, are there questions that you feel you get the answer to by the time we move it to formal session?

So Pro Tim, I have reservations.

I oh excuse, I'm sorry, reservations.

I have reservations.

I've had uh conversations with um the appropriate entities.

I still have reservations in regards to this.

Um don't want to be the person to hold it up, right?

Um would request a um get you saying to send it out without recommendation.

So so so it's not satisfactory to what you're looking for in this project.

Correct.

Okay, okay, I got this different conversation.

And and for the record is not for what came before us, it's what transpired with the property in um its recent history.

Oh, and the oh, in the past experiences.

Oh, I'm sorry, you had to experience all right.

Motion to move this line item forward without recommendation.

There's a motion to send line item 8.3 to formal without recommendation.

Hearing no objections, that action shall be taken.

Thank you.

Is status of the historic designation advisory board continued discussion of the secondary street signs, and we do have HDAB here.

I'm not sure if you all wanted to have a discussion.

Pro Tim, is there a motion to discuss line item 8.4?

Motion discuss line 8.4.

Thank you.

Good afternoon.

Please introduce yourself for the record.

I'm not sure if you all had any additional um information you wanted to discuss.

Yes, I have Janice Chapman, Director of Historic Designation Advisory Board.

Janice Tillman, Historic Planning, Historic Designation Advisory Board.

As I understand it, Madam Chair, that we were bringing us back for the decision from the law department.

Through the chair.

Our plan is to move forward later in the year with the amendment to the ordinance.

And we are hoping to first have the nominations for the historic designation um secondary streets first, and then move forward with uh the ordinance changes.

So uh the appropriate action would either be I would defer to Dr.

Powers, but this could either be uh removed or sat TBD um what whatever this body seems appropriate, but uh but we're we're planning on moving forward later in the year.

Thank you.

Um Dr.

Powers?

Um, yes, ma'am.

I would concur with with law.

Okay, okay, thank you.

Um to Dr.

Chapman or Ms.

Tillman.

Can you share with us the timeline?

Um, because I started to forget whether or not we moved um on secondary streets prior to recess or if it was after recess.

Um yes, madam chair, it's after recess.

Usually the time between September and November is when you make a decision on the applications.

Okay.

And the um ordinance amendments are in reference to this year's process or next year's process.

It through the chair, it would be for next year's process and then going forward after that.

Thank you.

So that means we still have not made a determination on how to move forward this year.

Do are are we having those conversations through the I know we had the discussion here several weeks ago through the chair, is my understanding that um uh we just continue along um the present ordinance, so we will uh uh continue to move forward the way we have um in last year's and previous years um based upon the ordinance that's that's not in in play, and I think I'll just kind of get a yes from from the law department that that's how we we need to move forward.

And I think I'll just kind of get a yes from the law department that that's how we we need to move forward.

So we will have the continued rollovers, um the submissions of applicants um or petitioners for the um secondary street signs, and um we will process those in the same manner in which we processed them um last year, and then in the next cycle is when we will those changes that were suggested will be um will be suggested and and voted upon.

But yes, so we will have I think if um Jennifer 18 and then additional 18 plus 18 plus 18 plus we currently have 18 that's in the pile.

We have two um that's pending payment, and once they they have until June 30th to pay, and once that's done, we'll have 20 right now.

Thank you.

And I know there was um discussion about amending this year's process.

I'm not certain where that stands at this point.

Um but we will we will uh have I'm sure some additional discussions as we move forward with how we address this year if it will be different from um the current ordinance and how we've operated over the last few years.

Through the chair.

Attorney Anderson.

Even though there's no legislative changes that will be made to this year's ordinance, uh I I uh believe uh my sister counsel here, they're they're being very polite and they would recommend still this body to be very mindful.

And there is a large number, as they said, 20 applicants already to just be mindful of that as this council when they move forward for the secondary street process, which I did confirm with your team we are shooting for October 1st of this year.

Um anyone who has uh never been to a secondary street hearing, it is uh quite the event.

It is a very packed house, and I'm sure it will be that way again this year, which we love the civic engagement.

Um, but we're hopeful that will inspire this body to make some additional changes for next year going forward about how things could be run more efficiently.

Um so I know uh all departments are looking forward and enthusiastic for uh the the months ahead.

Thank you.

Awesome.

Thank you, Dr.

Sherman.

If I may, I just would like to um let folks know who may be thinking about um submitting an application that the deadline is June 30th at two o'clock.

We will not be re um accepting any, and they have to be completed.

Um we will not be accepting um any applicant, and we don't want anyone to come in at three o'clock and be you know upset.

So the deadline is a hard two o'clock deadline uh the on the 30th of June.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

All right, with that being said, pro Tim, is there a motion to bring line item 8.4 back for a date to be determined?

A discussion?

No discussion.

It's after one.

No, I'm just kidding.

Pro Tim Young.

I'm gonna say, don't do me like that, man.

Um no, I was I will just get ready.

So I thought you guys want to come up here and say that all my requests for a street sign name is gonna be approved, and I had the chapman green tillman green light.

Um but I I I I just wanted to say um we will in in this discussion.

I don't know if this goes to law or anybody, but we will have changes to the ordinance.

Are there opportunities for members to be able to make changes as well, or is this something that we just vote up or down?

Through the chair, uh we will not amend the ordinance until following that October 1st um typical process.

Okay.

So there is plenty of time for your process to say we will make changes to that, and we'll have that long drawn-out discussion of what it is and what it looks like and the changes we can make and all that.

But that will happen after we approve the current street signs.

Correct.

Right.

And if there are certain ideas that you have currently, we welcome them to hear them sooner than later.

That way I can begin um working with all departments to make sure that uh we can have those amendments prepared.

And also I just want to add my final question.

And that is not uh dependent upon whether or not we add more street signs before that vote, or we keep it the same.

I'm not saying I'm going to, but I just want to say that's not dependent upon any of that, regardless of what happens.

That is gonna take place after we approve the street signs, correct?

Through the chair, if I may, there will still be a number the a total number of um secondary street signs that we will be voting on in August, excuse me, in October will be five, because that is the present ordinance is that there are five um secondary street signs that are awarded um each year and and under the the ordinance in which we are operating under, and that will not have changed um prior to that um to October.

So absolutely it will be you'll be voting um, you know, if we even if we have 25 or 30, I won't say 30, but 25, there will be um you will be um only five will be approved or can be approved um in this uh cycle.

Um looking at the next cycle, appending the next cycle if changes are made and and I'm so glad that attorney graham has suggested that if we get those sooner than later.

If you have questions about some of the things that you're thinking about um maybe wanting to adopt, we are available to talk with staff and and council members to address those um those concerns and those questions.

Excellent.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mayor Chair.

I'm done.

All right, thank you.

Madam Clerk, will you please know that member Miller has joined us, and I believe Member Miller has comments or questions about this?

I do.

I was just waiting for you guys to finish.

Okay, the clerk will note.

Thank you.

Member Miller.

Uh sorry, I just I was trying to get here.

I know you guys take a break.

Hope you had a good one.

Um, regarding the street signs, I am constantly bombarded with these, especially right now.

And I was looking at the list, and um I know there's some recommendations that have been made, but is there a way to like eliminate some of these people on the list?

I mean, there's a lot on there.

I mean, I think collectively the whole structure probably needs to be done.

I know it's a charter issue, but um I'm having people that's calling me that's like 55, 60, people that have started off here in the city but really didn't do a lot of contributions to the city, that has not stuck and stayed in the city or provided some benevolence or something to some of these organizations or our residents.

How do we shrink the process?

Because the overlap is haunting us, and um, as a new council person, there's new people moving forward that's coming in who they feel that I'm obligated to because they're new and I'm new and they've come in this cycle, but then I have a backlog from five years ago.

Um, when some of them, you know, in their mind, it sounds good, but you know, you can't just sell ice cream, you can't just say you work at the Sunday school, but the real contribution to the city of Detroit is is important for me.

So when they're calling the office, I I have a list of questions like okay, A B C D X Y Z, and some of them just tell me to qualifications in my mind.

In my mind, so I would like to assist or even help with shrinking our list because at this time goes on, it's only going to get bigger and bigger and bigger.

Um through the chair uh to council member miller.

That's a great question.

And that's the exact type of thoughts that that we're welcoming when we uh plan the new amendments to this ordinance.

If uh your office desires to shrink the um uh current outstanding list or shrink the requirements to even be nominated.

That's something that we're we're all ears for and would be happy to uh make those adjustments uh if need be, working, of course, with uh the talented team at the historic designation advisory board.

Yes, that's pretty much my comment.

Thank you to the chair chair.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um member Miller, and we did have a discussion about this um a few weeks ago, trying to figure out how do we whittle down the list that we currently have because we know as we continue to move forward, we'll continue to add um people to the list for consideration.

And so we are going to have a public hearing um in the fall to have discussions on amending the ordinance to be able to address those types of things.

Um so certainly look forward to having you involved in that public hearing.

Um again, attorney Anderson indicated if you have any suggested amendments, you can always have conversations with them.

Um, but all of those will come before us during the public hearing in the fall.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, thank you all so much for joining us.

Pro Tim Young, is there a motion to bring line item 8.4 back for a date to be determined?

Uh motion.

Hearing no objections, that action shall be taken.

public hearing um again attorney anderson indicated if you have any suggested amendments you can always have conversations with them um but all of those will come before us during the public hearing in the fall thank you thank you all right thank you all so much for joining us pro tim young is there a motion to bring line item 8.4 back for a date to be determined uh motion hearing no objections that action shall be taken i'd now like to recess to the call of the chair all right oh you're about to just tap out you're about to tap out okay neighborhood and community services standing committee will now come into order will the clerk please call the roll council president pro temporar culminating on the second here councilmember scott bensant councilmember reneta miller here mr chair you have a quorum present thank you madam clerk i would like to recess neighborhood community services standing committee at the call of the chair i'd now like to call back to order the planning and economic planning and economic development standing committee madam clerk will you please call the roll council member latitia johnson present councilmember gabriela santiago romero member santiago romero did indicate that she would not be present constant president pro tem young here madam chair you have quorum thank you having a quorum present we are back in session president it's okay we'll use bathroom again we if we will take a pause thank you