Hello, everyone, and welcome to Oh, this sounds weird.

Yeah.

Justin.

Hello, everyone.

It's great to see everyone here tonight.

And it is a full house.

I think I might know why, so I'm going to make you stay here until the end of the agenda.

No.

We'll make some changes.

But it's great to see everyone here tonight.

And we'll go ahead and call the meeting to order at 7 p.m.

You'll please join me in a moment of silence.

Thank you.

I'll now pass it over to Mayor Pro Tim to lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Thank you.

It's our custom to stand and salute the flag as we engage in the Pledge of Allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you.

Okay.

Got it.

I'm all good.

I was just remembering that I missed the last meeting.

I was I feel like I haven't been here in a while.

New technology and stuff.

All right.

Madam Clerk, will you please call the room?

Mayor Williams.

I'm here.

Mayor Pro Ten Middleton.

I'm here.

Councilmember Baker.

Here.

Councilmember Caballero.

Here.

Councilmember Cook.

Here.

Councilmember Freeman has requested an excused absence for this evening.

Councilmember Rest.

Here.

Thank you.

That's proof that if you are streaming online, uh it is about one minute behind.

Sorry.

But uh before I get into a ceremonial items, I'd like to entertain a motion to excuse uh Councilmember Freeman for two.

It's been moved and properly seconded.

All in favor.

Could you open and vote, uh, Madam Clark?

I'm still looking for the clicker.

There we go.

All right, please close the vote.

The motion passes unanimously.

Thank you.

Thank you.

As uh Mayor Pro Tim is going down to read our first uh first proclamation.

Just a reminder, uh, we do have new technology here with more screens.

Um we're not using it for Netflix or Super Bowl games, but we have more screens for you to see everything, and you can see the votes recorded out, and also uh we are now um fully accessible to anyone with a handicap.

Um, such as being in a wheelchair or such, we this podium adjust up and down.

Um as tall as me and as low as someone sitting.

So Madam uh uh Mayor Pro Tem, if you will.

My thanks to his honor for allowing me to read this important proclamation.

Good evening to my honorable colleagues, all in chamber this evening and to our friends and residents on whatever platform you may be watching.

Thank you for joining us this evening.

I'll be reading the preparedness month proper easy for me to say, preparedness month proclamation.

I'm going to ask at this time our chief emergency manager, Elizabeth Schroeder join me.

You ain't Elizabeth.

Excepting on Keith Schroeder's behalf will be our Deputy City Manager, Keith Chadwell.

Proclamation.

Behavioral health is now recognized as an essential part of one's overall health and well-being.

And whereas the cost of not encouraging mental health and substance use recovery is significant for individuals, families, neighborhoods, and the community at large.

And whereas recovery from mental and substance use disorders occurs every day through a variety of prevention, recovery, support, resources, and treatment programs.

People in recovery strive to achieve healthy lifestyles, stable homes, meaningful daily activities, stronger neighborhoods, and contribute in positive ways to the larger community.

And whereas people with untreated mental and substance use disorders are at high risk for many unhealthy and unsafe behaviors, including alcohol or drug misuse, violent or self-destructive behavior, and suicide.

And whereas to help more people achieve and sustain long-term recovery, the recovery community of Durham, R C O D, invite all residents of Durham to participate in National Recovery Month.

Now, therefore, I, Leonardo Williams, the mayor of the City of Durham, North Carolina, to hereby proclaim September 2025 as National Recovery Month in the City of Durham and urge all citizens to observe this month by supporting and celebrating those in recovery as they progress on their journey.

Witness my hand in the corporate seal of the City of Durham, North Carolina, this is the second day of September 2025.

Is there a uh Robert Thomas in the audience?

Oh we're so sorry we went out of order a little bit.

If you will please join me in front of time at the uh podium, we're so sorry about that.

Please.

Yeah.

Okay.

Good evening, everyone.

Good evening, everyone.

We're very excited to celebrate recovery month in September.

It's not uh a secret, the devastation that addiction and substance use disorder causes in in individual lives and families in our communities.

The benefit of recovery is something that will save lives, restore families, enhance the quality of living in our communities, and we want to celebrate it.

We want everybody to come join us on uh September the 27th at the 1209 North Elizabeth Street in Durham.

Um it's on the corner of Elizabeth Street and Trinity, and the event will occur from 4:30 to 7:30.

It's an experience.

Come and see how people who have changed their lives have learned how to have fun without getting high.

Thank you so much.

So good evening again, everyone.

Um my name is Keely Hargraves, and I'm a part of, we say our we are a little tag team uh for our agency.

And I won't take up much of your time, but I will tell a little bit more of a personal story.

Um I was uh I just had a birthday, turned 59 Thursday, so I'm grateful for that.

Uh originally I'm born and raised in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, and I graduated from high school in 1984, and I went on to oh, okay.

I went on to uh attend Winston Salem State University, and I left there, I didn't graduate, uh I'll say two and a half years.

I left there and uh did some more adventures, cosmetology school, uh, some other different things.

And uh down the road, I got I just I would at I had um I'm sorry.

I encountered some childhood trauma, and I think I had just pushed it down over the years, and you know, as time went on, other things that affected my life, I got in some bad relationships and different things, and then I ended up getting tangled up in uh drugs and things, uh, probably around 1990.

And that took me down a little path.

And so I know hand to hand how substance abuse and mental health, because I think the childhood trauma was definitely mental for me.

And so over the years, I just, you know, like I said, uh I just pushed it down, whatever, didn't really want to address it.

I did go to counseling uh through middle school and junior high school because my parents noticed that I had a change, but I just I didn't want to talk about it.

So I think that had an effect on me over the years as well.

So, long story short, um, I have been in recovery now for 30 years.

Uh thank you.

I returned to school to uh uh advanced Granville Community College in 2014, I got my human services degree, and then I went on to work with uh recovery community of Durham.

I had a former church member of mine, some people may know her, Paula Harrington, that introduced me to uh the chair of RCOD, Robert Thomas.

And so I was there for about three, four years uh as the executive admin, and so now I'm a part of the board, and I just ask everyone to please continue to support people in recovery because it does affect not just that person, but the whole family.

And um, it's just important that we continue to support those in recovery and the agencies and organizations, because when I was working there, there were days that we had to come out of our pocket for clients that came in because we don't have a lot of funding.

So I just thank you for listening.

Yes.

I would like to say that I'm retired uh from Durham County, where I worked in at the Criminal Justice Resource Center for 13 years.

Previously, I worked in methadone programs as program director and had over 30 years of experience dealing with substance use disorders and mental health disorders, which they are intertwined.

Um it is so important that because of anonymity, you you don't see the success stories.

You might be standing beside a success story and don't know it.

But it's important to do this work because as people recover, communities recover, and you save money at the city because you're not investing in folk going at in and out of jail, in and out of prisons.

And so we want to encourage you to come to this.

I'm gonna leave these here.

Please come and see what recovery does in folk lives.

Thank you.

Thank you all so much.

You make Durham better.

You make Durham better.

Thank you.

And thank you for thanks for your bravery.

Takes a lot to tell your story.

Thank you.

Good evening, everyone.

Um, my the proclamation I will be reading on behalf of the mayor is Durham's celebrates recovery.

So if anyone out uh in the audience this evening is here for that proclamation, I invite you to join me up here.

Thank you.

Whereas National Preparedness Month, occurring annually in September since September 11th, 2004, creates an ideal opportunity for every resident of Durham, North Carolina to join citizens across the United States in preparing their homes, businesses, and communities for any type of emergency, including natural, technological, and human-caused.

And whereas the Federal landscape remains fluid, placing an even greater emphasis upon local emergency management agencies, and whereas disasters start and end at the local level, planning now before disaster is the best way to improve a community resiliency from disaster.

And whereas City County Emergency Management partners with federal, state, local, tribal, territorial, private, and volunteer agencies to educate individuals on local hazards and how to prepare for them.

And whereas City County Emergency Management informs residents on how to take action through its alert through its Alert Durham public education campaign.

All residents of Durham, North Carolina are urged to plan ahead for disasters and encourage their family and friends to do so by visiting the county's preparedness campaign website at AlertDurham.com.

Now, therefore, I, Leonardo Williams, Mayor of the City of Durham, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim September 2025 as National Preparedness Month in the City of Durham and urge all citizens to observe this month by preparing for emergencies before they occur in our city.

Witness my hand in the corporate seal of the City of Durham, North Carolina, this second day of September 2025.

Thank you very much.

Mr.

Mayor, Mr.

Mayor Pro Tim and members of council.

I am Keith Chadwell, Deputy City Manager, and I'm standing in the place of our chief emergency management uh director, Elizabeth Schroeder, who desired to be here, uh, but due to circumstances beyond her control, could not join us at this time.

She left words for me to share, and I'd like to quickly read them into the record uh in response to this occasion.

The Department wants to take a moment to recognize the importance of preparedness, emergency preparedness.

These campaigns have been observed since 2004, and the theme for this year is preparedness starts at home.

There are four key tips that can help you accomplish this.

First is knowing your risk, understanding what could happen where you and your family live.

uh in response to this occasion the department wants to take a moment to recognize the importance of preparedness emergency preparedness these campaigns have been observed uh since 2004 and the theme for this year is preparedness starts at home there are four key tips that can help you accomplish this first is knowing your risk understanding what could happen where you and your family live the second is making a family emergency plan to help determine what you would do and the steps you would take in the event of an emergency the third is making an emergency supply kit and ensuring that you have enough food water medicine and other supplies while you're waiting on additional help and the fourth is getting involved in your community the emergency the emergency management team will be posting tips on its social media all month to assist with this information.

You can also visit the site ready.gov for lists that help identify items you should include in your supply kit as well as templates to help you develop a plan.

And if you've not already done so you can visit AlertDurham.com that's one word alert durham dot com in order to register to receive important messages and weather updates during times of concern.

As a reminder we're still in the middle of hurricane season and we'll be moving shortly into winter weather season before we know it.

The teams at the city and county level continue to plan, prepare and practice and we encourage you all to do the same on behalf of the men and women of the emergency management department for Durham County and the city of Durham we thank you for the proclamation and the recognition.

Many thanks thank you.

All right at this time uh I'll entertain uh brief announcements by council members.

Councilmember Cook Thank you.

Um good evening everyone thank you for being here I just want to give a shout out to those of you watching at home we do have a full room inside and that is something I love to see I know folks are coming for different parts of the agenda but I just want to remind everyone that uh we have quite a lot of really important things going on this evening.

Uh we have a resolution I think a lot of you are here to speak on behalf of that that's really important.

We also have a rezoning case that's 300 over 300 acres of land development.

So that also feels like a really important one this evening so I know it might go late but if you want to stick around I think it'd be really interesting.

A couple of brief announcements for me the first is that happy labor day I was really honored to spend yesterday with um folks at the March for workers over billionaires celebrating our labor unions and um and coming together talking about what is possible when workers come together in this day and age and in a state that is a right to work state and what it looks like and what it can look like and what it can mean for working families for accessing health care, uh fair wages and so that was really really powerful I was really honored to be there.

My second announcement is that uh so sorry to my neighbors but uh because you live near me you are also enrolled in a pilot program with the Solid Waste Department so uh we are going to get to do um a a pilot program that's really focused on decontaminating recycling so y'all probably heard me up here talking about this before but our area Durham is doing the worst of all of our sort of nearby area cities in terms of our contamination in our recycling which means that we are having lots of things that you put in the recycle bin thrown out because sometimes they're going into plastic bags which can't be recycled or we are getting charged a lot because they're having to separate out all of the trash we do have an app that helps you understand what things to recycle and just a heads up the little like numbers on the plastics are made up and so that is not relevant.

So I think that it's important to learn.

It's been a certainly a learning curve for me and um and now I have a little bit of extra scrutiny on my recycle bin and again sorry to my neighbors because y'all will as well but anyway that is all I have.

Thank you so much for being here tonight and look forward to a good meeting.

Thank you.

Mr.

Baker Thank you good evening to everyone here the the room is indeed full and and folks are watching at home as well wanted to say as well happy labor day to everyone more important than ever so many great things that we have the weekend making sure kids aren't aren't working in in uh terrible conditions so many things that are great that we have are because of the fight and the blood and the sweat and the tears of workers and of labor organizing.

A lot of the challenges we face today are because of the war against workers here in the state of North Carolina we're number one for doing business and number 50 for union membership and number 50 for workers' rights.

So uh right now in this day and age, unions are more popular than ever.

Uh and we need to work harder than ever to make sure that we make this city a union city uh and make sure that we strengthen our labor movements here in Durham and outward across across our entire state.

And it was also wonderful to be a part of the event yesterday uh in the March, and I saw several of my colleagues uh there.

It was wonderful.

Second thing, uh I want to say thanks to the more than 80 residents who showed up uh to the Lakewood West End and Lion Park small area plan uh kickoff meeting that took place at the Lion Park Community Center last week.

Um folks had a lot of passion, and I think what that showed was people care about the world that they live in, the world that they travel around in, the way that they get to things and the way that they do things and the way that they live their lives, and they want the ability to shape the world around them in the world that they live in.

People are hungry for engagement for the ability to have some power over their own their own daily lives.

And so it was wonderful to see uh the passion that that everybody brought to to that meeting.

And I'm I'm proud, uh I think that we should be proud of that, and I think that we should work hard to build off of it.

So I'm looking forward to a great meeting and a thoughtful discussion.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember Cabo.

Thank you.

Good afternoon, good evening.

Good to see everyone.

Um, and uh just want to say welcome to the People's House forever and always.

Um excited to see so many uh faces.

I think I know when many of you are here.

Um, and also happy Labor Day.

I think that it is uh fitting that we are passing this resolution the day after we celebrate Labor Day because I know many many groups came together to make sure we c uh get that over the finish line, including um the city city city workers uh group.

Um a few weeks ago, I think Councilmember Rist and I were part of the hundredth book hub celebration for book harvest.

It was one of one of my favorite.

We've had a lot of uh ARPA American Rescue Plan dollar projects.

I think we forget how much money uh the City of Durham received from the federal government, and in this moment, it's a little shocking to see how how far we've tumbled.

Just a few years ago, we were recipients, the city and then the county also, of 52 million dollars of federal rescue, American rescue plan dollars, and those are still being spent on your community.

So it was a celebration of that.

And so I hope that with everything that we're doing, we are getting back to that.

We're getting back to a federal government that was responsive to its residents and citizens that cares and that stops punishing and cutting programs that serve families, seniors, students, and many folks who are on the margins and really need that support.

Uh so with all of you here, we have a celebratory resolution this evening, and I also want us to start envisioning a future in a world that is not where we are today because I think many of us uh are scared and rightfully so of what we are seeing happening across our country.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And colleagues, if you will uh pass down your umot.

If you will, just pass it on to me and I'll get it to the clerk.

Okay, good.

All right, good.

All right.

Uh councilmember Rist.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Good evening, everyone, good evening uh city manager, city attorney, the clerk, uh those listening online.

It's great to see so many different faces here.

I love it.

I'd love to see a full house, and thank you all for being here.

Um I just have a couple announcements.

Um the first thing is, you know, after the last work session, seems like forever ago, um, the mayor and I went over to the Durham Arts Council to participate in the retirement party for Sherry DeVries, who's the outgoing director of the Durham Arts Council.

Um we have a lot of great nonprofit leaders in Durham.

I think several of them are here in this room, many in this room.

Um, and she was one of them.

She led the Durham Arts Council for 23 distinguished years.

Um, and her impact is hard to match.

If you will, I'd like to read just a brief um brief statement that she gave out at the retirement party about her impact and her work at the Arts Council.

So this is from Sherry.

Sherry says, I am so fortunate and honored to have led the Durham Arts Council since 2020, sorry, and very grateful for the support of many generous donors and community partners that have helped us to advance and support the arts in Durham.

Because of our supporters, partners, and an incredibly talented staff and board, we have been able to significantly expand our arts programming for the public and our investment in artists and arts and cultural organizations.

I am especially proud of our expansion of people served annually, 171% from a little more than 187,000 a year to more than 500,000 per year.

And our total annual support for the arts and cultural sector through grants and arts employment reached an all-time high of 2.26 million last year.

Annual contributed funds to Durham Arts Council have grown from a little more than $860,000 a year to 2.43 2.43 million a year.

So to Sherry DeVries, well done, good and faithful servant, and hope you'll join me in wishing Sherry a wonderful slide into retirement.

So thank you, Sherry.

Yeah.

I also want to say it was it was fun joining Councilwoman Caballero at the uh at the book harvest uh celebration of the 100th book hub.

You know, we we gathered at Lee Farm Park, which is one of the parks.

It's a really beautiful park, one of the biggest parks in Durham.

I think it's less well known, but a beautiful spot there uh in Southwest Durham.

So great to be with the uh book harvest.

They do amazing work promoting early literacy and early reading, and so I want to wish them continued good luck and encourage them to continue the great work they're doing.

Um finally I want to join my colleagues in thanking folks for coming out yesterday to the workers of a billionaires rally.

Um, you know, I know that residents are concerned about ongoing threats to democracy, um, threats to to to our immigrant community, and also the upside down tax policy that's coming out of DC.

So folks are concerned.

I really want to thank the organizers for giving folks a chance to voice those concerns on Labor Day.

Um it's so important that we as a community express those concerns.

I know they're deeply felt, and I was glad to be with the big crowd.

How many of we have out there, Councilmember Baker and Councilmember Cook, maybe 500 or more people?

So it's great to be a part of that.

I also did want to take a chance to thank uh the city manager and city staff.

I know there's a lot of communication going on behind the scenes leading up to that.

Um I want to thank the folks from DPR who actually put some fencing out there at the park to make sure the park was um not over over or trampled over by by all the folks that were there.

Um I also saw Officer Jennifer and some of her colleagues at the at the march to make sure the public was safe at the March, really appreciate that.

I also want to give a big shout out, if you will, City Manager, to uh Parks Director Wade Walcott and Kirk Archer, who is a special project manager at DPR.

They essentially volunteered their time on Labor Day.

So I really want to hope you'll reach out to them and thank them for their for their service to make sure the whole thing went off without a hitch.

So I'll do that.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Thank you, Mayor President.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor, and again to my honorable colleagues for the wonderful announcements tonight.

Um Mr.

Mayor, very simply and directly, I want to, and I know you already have informally and for informally and formally.

I just want to send uh love and light out to our beloved friends and neighbors in Minneapolis this evening.

Um it was just last year, a few of us were in Minneapolis, Mr.

Mayor, in your absence.

I got an opportunity to uh introduce our friend Mayor Frey uh to our delegation of her inner city visit.

The the her horror of what happened uh in Minneapolis uh resonates all over this country.

Um to our friends and colleagues on the City Council, we know many of them, and to the residents and and citizens of of Minneapolis, uh Durham stands with you uh tonight.

Um I have said time and time again that you know the greatness of a city cannot be measured by its skyscrapers or its restaurants or its entertainment venues.

It's measured by how safe we keep the most vulnerable among us.

Everything else is an asterisk.

Everything else is just bonus, if you will.

Uh so tonight uh our hearts are with um our friends and our neighbors, our fellow citizens uh in in Minneapolis uh tonight, and um we keep fighting the good fight.

Um speaking of the most vulnerable among us, I I'm pleased to see so many of you in chamber tonight, and I want to take a point of personal privilege uh tonight.

Uh Durham was so wonderful just not too long ago in sending love and light to my family on the passing of my nephew, little Lloyd.

And I want to take a per point of personal privilege tonight because Big Lloyd is in the audience uh tonight, little Lloyd's dad and his his wife and little Lloyd's mother, uh, my sister-in-law Inyevelle Ortiz Middleton, who I'm very proud of.

She's here.

They're here working tonight.

They're here uh with a delegation to make sure we do the right thing uh with regard to this resolution uh that we'll be looking at uh to protect the most vulnerable among us.

So I just want to shout my family out tonight.

Uh good to see you in the trenches doing the good work.

Uh very proud of you, and I love you both.

Thank you, colleagues.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

I yield thank you so much.

Um I uh missed our last meeting due to uh uh oftentimes this mayor, you know, we get these these requests to uh travel across the country and you know, folks who say, hey, we you know we'll pay for you to come out here if you talk about the cool things that are happening in your city.

And uh I I love bragging on Durham anytime I get a chance.

And uh last year I spent some time in San Juan, Puerto Rico to talk about uh just you know, just general things with the city this year.

Uh was able to be the keynote speaker to talk about our of course our heart program and some of the some of the innovative and creative policies that we're doing here in Durham.

I um, you know, it's election season, and you hear a lot of folks talk about what's wrong with the city.

Uh guys, let me tell you, Durham is dope.

Like we have some amazing things happening in this city.

And I need us to know that just as well as the rest of the world does.

Uh so if folks are willing to invest in making sure that their base, Latin American leaders, over 2,000 of them are hearing how to address public safety and community safety based on Durham.

I think we need to just, you know, throw our bull horns up and be proud about that.

So I was watching the meeting uh with anxiety uh from afar uh on YouTube, uh, you know, giving my commentary through the uh computer screen.

You all couldn't hear me, uh, but I I missed you and I'm glad to be back.

Um I also uh want to shout out Parks and Rec.

Uh Black August in the Park was a success.

Uh I it is a very interesting thing to be on Foster Street and Central Park.

Um, standing room only uh in an entire outside city street.

And uh it was just a beautiful sight to see, and I know that the news like to report a lot of black and brown faces always in crime.

Um it was probably about I don't know, 20,000 black folks, and we didn't have any issues.

So uh that's because they're dermites, and y'all are dermites in this room, and we know how to have a good time and take care of one another.

Uh and I know also we are human.

So uh I just want to shout out to the organizers, such a great success uh with that.

Um I am not going to talk a lot tonight.

I'm ready to get to business.

Uh there were a few things I wanted to address, but I'll address those later.

I did want to announce colleagues, I am going to move the agenda around a little bit.

Uh I know when we have supplemental items, we tend to uh have those as last on the agenda.

So what I'm going to do tonight is I'm going to move item number item number 26, which is the Fourth Amendment workplace solution.

I am going to move that to first on the agenda so that we can address it.

Uh I do feel it'll be fairly quick based on my conversations with you all.

And yeah, that'll be it.

Uh, one last thing.

Um, just again putting Durham on the map.

Uh some time ago working with Central Pines, our staff, uh Central Ponds is like our regional research hub.

Durham received uh a couple million dollars to support youth with uh youth who have HIV aids, uh supporting them with resources such as housing, mentoring, uh, and just wraparound support.

Uh that that grant uh and going to receive that check really uh touched my heart.

And and then looking at the work that we're doing in support, um, I was heartbroken when this Federal administration decided to cut Medicare funds for people with HIV aids, especially young people.

Uh something she just cannot sit back and be quiet on.

So I'm leading a delegation of mayors across the country uh with a letter to uh directly to Congress because Congress had already allocated these funds, and someone likes to take things that I tend to get a little upset about this stuff.

I'll keep my cool.

Um Congress approved approved funding, and it has been withdrawn.

And I'm not going to sit back and watch that.

I'm leading a delegation of mayors across the country to request directly to Congress that this funding be restored and for them to do their job.

And um that that is getting some national attention, so you will probably see me in a few articles representing the city talking about that work.

Um because of that work, uh the Clinton Foundation has invited uh myself to speak on a national stage about that work to make sure that we're supporting not only our individuals here in that demographic, but across the nation.

And uh lastly, I want you all to know that uh we're always going to do our part to stand up for one another.

Uh I know that there is a particular individual that is targeting uh, in a sense uh mayors that look like me across this country and sending the National Guard in.

Uh we are going to continue to follow the law, but we will do as what I like to say strategic neighboring.

And uh just know that our finger is on the pulse and we are watching closely what is happening across the country.

Uh and I'm paying close attention to that.

All right.

With that being said, let's get to work.

At this time, I'll address the priority items.

Started with you, Mr.

Manager.

Thank you, Mayor, Mayor Proton, members of council, good to be even good to be with you this evening.

The City Manager's Office does have several priority items.

First, for agenda item number seven, this is the contract with El Centro Hispano to provide salary and operating support.

Additional information that was requested during the August 21, 2025 work session has been attached to the item.

And for agenda item number 18, the 2025 second quarter crime report, additional information requested during the August 21, 2025 work session has been attached.

In addition, the following items were disposed of during the August 21st, 2025 City Council work session.

These are agenda items, agenda item number 18, which was the 2025 second quarter crime report, agenda item number 22, which was the FY 2027-2029 strategic plan refresh presentation and agenda item number 23, reimagined Durham Freeway Study Presentation.

That's all my priority items.

Thank you, Mr.

Manager.

Madam Attorney.

Good evening, Mr.

Mayor, Mr.

Mayor Pratem, members of the Council.

It's good to be with you.

The City Attorney's Office has no priority items this evening.

Thank you.

I like when you don't have any.

Madam Clerk.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Good evening, Mr.

Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem, and City Council members.

The City Clerk's office has no priority items this evening.

Thank you.

Would you like to We're doing number four under GBA, correct?

Okay.

So uh what I what I can do is uh pull that item uh and you can read it out at that time and we can and what I do I will address that one as right after I read the uh consent agenda.

All right.

All right.

Uh at this time I'll read the consent agenda.

Item number one, Racial Equity Commission.

Um I'm gonna pull it, but Madam Clerk uh clerk, I did get your email about attendance as well as some of the others.

Um I I'll reach back out and I'll talk to my colleagues about that as well.

I know I'm long overdue for doing that, but colleagues, I will be reaching out to you all to talk about some proper some proposals around some of the boards committees and commissions regarding attendance.

Number two, workforce development board appointment.

Number three, Durham City Council Environmental Affairs Board appointments.

Number four, Citizens Advisory Committee appointment.

Number six, Durham Historic Preservation Commission appointment.

I hope you guys guys had a good meeting this morning.

That was number five.

Number four is on GPA.

Oh, yeah, I'm sorry, number retracting that.

Number five, uh number four is on GBA.

Number five, Citizens Advisory Committee appointment.

Number six, Durham Historic Preservation Commission.

No, they had their meeting today.

Uh number seven, contract with El Centro Hispaniel to provide salary and operating support.

Number eight, Second Amendment to interlocal cooperation agreement between the City of Durham and Durham County to contract for a joint crisis community community communications plan.

Number nine, contract with Brinks Capital LLC for Brinks Brink S or Brinks Complete Smart Safety Smart Safe Services.

Number 10, contract for electronic presentment and payment payment processing for the City of Durham with InfoSIN Incorporated.

Number 11, contract with Brinks Incorporated for Cash and Transit Services.

Number 12, United States Department of Agriculture, USDA, Forest Service, Inflation Reduction Act, Urban and Community Forestry Expansion Project, Urban Forestry, Tree Canopy Assessment with EOSIN Environmental Group, Incorporated.

Number 13.

Governing Service Agreements for Owen Call Professional Services, Architects, Landscape Architects, Engineers, Civil Structural, Plumbing, Mechanical and Electrical, Roof and Building Envelope Specialists, and Building Commissioning Providers.

Number 14, the United States Department of Agriculture, USDA Forest Service Inflation Reduction Act, Urban and Community Forestry Expansion Project, Tree Inventory and Urban Forestry Management Plan with Arbor Pro Incorporated of CA Inc.

Number 15, United States Department of Agriculture, Forest Service Inflation Reduction Act, Urban and Community Forestry Expansion Project, Right of Way, Tree Planting with Southern Garden Incorporated.

I hope you're paying attention to these guys.

I get a lot of emails about what are we doing about the tree canopy.

We are putting in work.

Number 17, Contract Amendment Number 3 for Durham Workforce Development Board, Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act, Youth Program Echort, Youth Alternative, Incorporated, DBA Eckert Connects.

Number 18, 2025 Second Quarter Crime Report.

Not going to pull it, but I will say that crime is down in every single category.

It's trending down.

Overall, crime is down 26 percent, and it is down in every single category in the entire city.

Number 19.

News camera, make sure you report it.

Number 19, contract with the Electronic Data Corporation Incorporated for Cloud Based Vendor hosted integrated parking management software for Park Durham.

Number 20, uh requested by Councilmember Baker to pull construction award to Moffitt Pipe Incorporated for the East Durham Water, Sewer, and Stormwater Replacement Phase 1A project.

Number 21, uh 21 construction award to JF Wilkeson Contracting Company Incorporated for the West End Water, Sewer, and Stormwater Replacement Phase 1 and Maine and Broad Street Waterline Project.

And of course, as I stated on our GBA, we have uh the Durham Planning Commission appointment, which I'll come back to.

And we have our our uh presentations tonight for public hearings, I'm sorry.

Uh consolidated annexation courtyards at Oak Grove, number 25, Consolidated Annexation Durham Gateway at Briar Creek, and of course, uh number 26, the Fourth Amendment Workplace Resolution.

Uh those are that is our consent agenda, and at this time, I will uh go to uh yeah, I'm sorry.

You know, I gotta get back in my groove here.

But thanks for catching everything.

Uh so at this time, I'll entertain a motion to uh approve the consent agenda with the exception of item number oh, sorry, I'm recording item number 20 uh with Councilmember Baker.

So moved.

Second.

And item number four.

We have to read that out.

This is on GBA.

Okay.

Um item number 20.

So all in favor?

I'm sorry.

Madam Clerk, can you open the vote?

I want to get this together.

All right, close the vote, please.

Motion passes unanimously.

Awesome.

Uh Councilmember Baker, we can go straight to you.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Um, the Grant Street community, um, folks within the Grant Street community who do amazing work uh championing their community and uh trying to trying to improve improve their their street and their neighborhood.

They've asked me to share a very brief statement with my colleagues, with staff, and with the public this evening.

So I'm gonna read that.

We, the members of the Grant Street community, would like to thank the Department of Public Works and Stormwater Division, which I believe is now called the Environmental and Street Services Department and the Engineering and Stormwater Division for completing a synoptic study on the stream that flows through our community, which is known as the branch.

Because of your advocacy efforts and the cooperation from city staff, the bid includes almost 400,000 for stream enhancements, including Grant Park North.

Again, we say thank you for your support.

Thank you to the Grant Street Street community for uh that acknowledgement.

I know that you know this work is a thankless job, but it's always great when our staff gets to get those kudos.

So shout out to our staff.

All right.

I will entertain a motion to approve item number 20, uh, and that is to authorize the city managers who execute the East Durham Water Sewer and Stormwater Replacement Phase 1A project with Moffitt Pipe Incorporated in an amount not to exceed 10 million six hundred and forty-eight thousand five hundred and seventy-one dollars and forty cents.

Which is red.

Second.

It's been moved and properly seconded, Madam Clerk.

Please hope to vote.

Please close the vote.

The motion passes unanimously.

Awesome.

Um also entertain a motion to establish a contingency fund in the amount of 1,108,978 dollars.

Moved is read.

Second.

Please close the vote.

Motion passes unanimously.

And lastly, I'll take a motion to authorize the city manager to negotiate and execute modifications to the East Durham Water Sewer and Stormwater Replacement Phase 1A project, provided that the total contract amount, including contingency funds, does not exceed 11,757,549.40 cents.

Move is right.

Second.

It's been moved and properly seconded.

Madam Clerk, please open the vote.

Mr.

Mayor, I'm having a technical issue.

Okay, I can start now.

Please close the vote.

The motion passed unanimously.

All right.

All right, colleagues.

Uh without objection, I'm going to move member item number 26.

Item number four.

The GBA item number four.

Madam Clerk, would you like to read out the report for item number four?

This is the planning commission.

Yes, thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

This evening, Council has nominated the following individual for the Durham Planning Commission.

The name is Juan P.

Montes, and he passed with a unanimous vote.

Not unanimous, but a majority vote.

Okay.

Thank you so much.

You need to vote.

We need to vote on it.

Thank you.

All right.

Um at this time, uh entertain a motion to appoint a resident to fill one vacancy on the Durham Planning Commission with the term to expire on June 30th, 2027.

So moved.

Second.

It's been moved and properly seconded.

Madam Clerk, please open the vote.

Please close the vote.

The motion passes unanimously.

Thank you so much.

All right.

At this time, colleagues, I will move item number 26.

Number 26 up uh to be addressed now.

Um you introduced this.

You want to give remarks.

Thank you.

Good evening, everyone.

I just want to thank my colleagues for supporting this resolution.

I want to thank Siembra, Durham Cannes, Workers' Rights Commission, and I think UE 150.

I think those were the four organizations that came together.

I really want to highlight's work because we are we have this resolution in front of us because of the work that they're doing across the state of North Carolina.

If I'm not mistaken, Carborough was the first community in North Carolina to pass a similar resolution.

I think we're the second.

I don't know.

There may be there was another community.

I'm seeing hot nods of yes.

So we we got in second, so I'll take it.

Um just thank you.

I don't know if folks want me to go ahead and read the resolution aloud and then proceed with public comment.

Is that okay?

Perfect.

Thank you.

Whereas the City of Durham has historically pursued equity and safety for all residents, and whereas the trust and cooperation of all residents is necessary to the effective operation of Durham's local government functions, including law enforcement, and whereas the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States reads in full, we excuse the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized.

And whereas executive branch law enforcement agencies, including immigration and customs enforcement, have recently engaged in a pattern of unconstitutional warrantless workplace searches, which have disrupted small businesses, courts, and local communities in many cities, including Durham, and whereas the threat of unconstitutional seizure by Federal authorities, such as immigration and customs enforcement, is preventing immigrant households from safely engaging in public life, including pursuing education and employment, and whereas second generation and non-immigrant black, indigenous, and people of color families are also being unconstitutionally targeted, harassed, and arrested by federal authorities and law enforcement officers under the guise of immigration enforcement.

And whereas workers with temporary protected status are at risk for arbitrary and unconstitutional persecution by Federal and State authorities at their places of work.

And whereas various workplaces have joined an effort by CMBA's NC and CMB NC's make NC work project to become Fourth Amendment workplaces that train their staff to defend the Fourth Amendment rights of employers, staff, and patrons.

And whereas the City of Durham can serve as an example of how local governments can advocate for the rights of all residents and discourage the overreach of Article II agencies in our communities.

Now therefore be it resolved that we the Durham City Council resolve that the city of Durham is proclaimed a fourth amendment workplace, that the city managers to direct staff to uphold the fourth amendment at their workplace and city agencies and report back to council any need or barriers to effective training on the fourth amendment for any departments that we encourage all city of Durham workplaces and agencies to join this effort to ensure respect for the Constitution and discourage federal overreach into local communities.

I deserve a bonus that's all I gotta say.

This is why Spanish is often two or three times longer than the English version because everything has extra articles or uh conjugation or not conju um what's the word with or uh prepositions.

All right, no that was amazing.

Um at this time I'd like to entertain uh some public comment and I have first up Elise Balan.

Oh second.

Right over here.

Welcome.

No, you're fine, you're fine.

Good evening, members of the city.

Thank you.

Um good evening, my name is Elise Ballin.

I'm the chair of the Durham Workers' Rights Commission.

I'm very proud that our commissioner in collaboration with CMR and C and others drafted this fourth amendment workplace resolution.

It was endorsed by the workers' rights commission, and I'm in strong support of the resolution.

Carborough issued a fourth amendment workplace proclamation in May to serve as an example of how local governments can stand for the rights of their residents and not bend under federal pressure, and it is time that Durham does the same.

Durham celebrates a rich diversity of residents, and we understand that the Trump administration's mass deportation targets and completely manufactured panic surrounding immigrants, puts anyone who does not appear white, anyone who does not speak English or has an accent, anyone regardless of papers or immigration status at risk of abuse, abduction, detention, and even deportation to countries they have no ties to.

So um thank you so much and good evening, everyone.

We are members of the community that do not tend to just stay standing.

We work really hard.

We um tend to participate in recreational activities.

I am a father of a six-year-old girl who is in the spectrum, and we tend to do things like go to the library, um, and participate in activities that we appreciate that the city uh continues to uh make safe like libraries and so on.

I'm also a member of Siembra.

So I member de Siembra, quienes un trabajo, un arduo trabajo in capacitar negocios, dueños de negocios y trabajadores porque queremos estar seguros también ordenando.

Queremos continuar apoyando nuestra economía local in Duran.

Decidimos vivir in Duran, porque es una ciudad que nos abraza su comunidad, es una communidad que comparte con nosotros.

Siempre este arduo trabajo y ahora tenemos esa confianza de llegar a los lugares que se han acogido a la Cuarta Enmienda.

So, yeah, once again, I am uh member of Siembra in C which we they do trainings uh regarding uh how to have your business for workers and again because they believe in supporting the economy, which is what we do.

Um we like living in Durham.

We appreciate living in Durham because Durham is a city that welcomes us.

Um we very happy here when we go outside of Durham, and when we return we um are always happy to come back to Durham.

And one of the reasons is because uh Durham is uh also joining other cities who are accepting uh the fourth amendment.

And once again, I want to highlight and repeat that we appreciate uh to feel safe when we participate in the activities that the city of Durham offers and the places where we go to Durham like libraries parks and places around the city.

Thank you.

Next up, Melanie.

So my name is uh Melanie and I live here in Durham.

I am the daughter of immigrant parents and I'm speaking today on behalf of myself, my parents, my friend's parents, and many Latino families in our city.

On behalf of Durham can, I want to thank the Durham City Council for your interest in protecting the constitutional rights of immigrants.

So that is why we ask you the city council and the city manager to help ensure that the resolution you have passed has its full effect by committing to training city staff.

Only with proper training can we guarantee that the immigrant families in Durham are truly protected.

Thank you for your time, your leadership, and your commitment to making Durham a safe and welcoming city for all right.

Many of us live with a constant fear that a simple trip to work, to school, or even to the grocery store could end in separation from our families.

We are not criminals.

Go ahead.

Um I will be so brief, but I just want to thank everyone who came out tonight, and I want to thank Councilmember Macabiero for um her leadership and also um our Durham Workers' Rights Commission for their leadership in bringing this forward.

I don't think that uh we can say it any better than those of you who have just spoken, but uh we are a bit limited in this time.

But one thing that we can do as a city council is we can um show our values in our own workplace.

And so I'm really uh grateful for the leadership and our opportunity to demonstrate our commitment to that tonight.

Thank you.

Okay, Councilmember Ruth.

Here, here I just wanted to also thank Councilmember Caballero for bringing this forward and providing leadership on this issue and so many others related to our immigrant community.

So thank you so much for that.

I'm proud of this.

Proud of you.

Baker.

Yes, thank you all.

Thank you all for coming and for speaking in favor and for the leadership.

Uh, I will be enthusiastically supporting this.

I already spoke, but just thank you again.

Uh I think we all do better when we collaborate and work across inside and outside of government.

So again, to the community groups that brought this forward and to uh the other municipalities that I know are going to pass this uh next.

So I look forward to seeing uh North Carolina full of communities who are standing up for their residents.

Thank you uh so much, colleagues, and thank you all for coming out uh tonight, Councilman Macabrier, of course, for your leadership.

Let me echo that um to these community organizations that have worked so hard to bring us to this place.

Um I want to just also um honor my colleagues on this day.

As y'all watch us on TV.

Sometimes we get into it and there's a lot of things we disagree on, a lot of things we agree on.

But I want to seriously honor this council tonight, because this may not just be a resolution.

This with the climate we live in, and I'm glad the language says that the council has directed the city manager, because the buck does stop here.

Um I want to say I'm very proud of this council and very proud of my colleagues because we should not be surprised if elected officials uh start getting arrested or continue to get arrested for actions as simple as a resolution.

I'm not trying to be overly dramatic, but we are we're already seeing it.

So I don't care what we disagree about on other stuff.

I want you to know tonight uh that I honor each of you uh for your commitment and for loving the city and for loving justice and whatever we may face or not face uh because of this action, um, I hope we face it together.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Here, here, truly.

Um I I said this weekend, I said, you know, this council doesn't always agree, but I got each and every last one of my colleagues back.

Uh because I I want to protect the work that we do collaboratively, and uh tonight is true form and fashion of what local government can look like.

So thank you all for your advocacy, thank you for your bravery.

It takes a lot to come up here in the in the climate of politics and federal government we have.

It takes a lot to come to that microphone and speak and speak with courage, considering what's happening.

Um, my my wife is an immigrant, you know, and she asked me, she said, you know, what what will happen if people like me and Javier?

She actually called you out.

You know, it's just like what what do what do we do?

You know, we are afraid, and we're naturalized citizens.

What about the people who are not?

What about what about the people here who are so vulnerable?

What do we do?

You know, and this is this is where we stand up for one another.

This is where we stand up for one another the most.

So I will be supporting this with absolute pride tonight, as I'm sure my colleagues will as well.

So with that being said.

Yes.

I also just want to say really quickly, I want to thank staff.

When I was first on council, we were not equipped to have interpretation.

I want to highlight the work that this the city has done for many years around that belief of equity and language access and justice.

Every single council meeting is streamed and is streamed bilingually, and we have the capacity to add a third language when we hit that high use.

During the pandemic, we ran several town halls in three different languages.

One of us was Swahili, another one was Arabic.

So I just want your city staff respond to your demands and and your expectations.

And so whenever I say I bet on us, it's because I know we will always rise to the challenge, however hard it is.

Mr.

Mayor, also thank you for mentioning your wife is naturalized.

As you all know, my father is also naturalized citizens, so this is a very important one for me personally as well as the council.

I also want to say, Councilmember McCabiero, one of the speakers referenced the beautiful Spanish language.

I don't know if you know this because you are reading in Spanish so so beautifully, but the uh the captions picked up your Spanish language on the on the screen there.

So, like again, kudos to the staff as well for setting up this new system so we can actually have this kind of bilingual conversation here in the chambers.

This is Durham.

This is Durham.

And with that being said, I'd like to entertain a motion to approve the Fourth Amendment workplace resolution.

So moved.

Second.

It's been moved and properly seconded.

Madam Clerk, please open the vote.

Please close the vote.

And the motion passes unanimously.

Thank you.

Now y'all ready to stay for the uh zoning cases?

I asked that question if people started walking out faster.

Uh colleagues, let me uh just take a moment to allow the room to uh settle.

Are you all offended?

All right.

We are on item number twenty-four.

Consolidated annexation, courtyards at Oak Grove.

Um Mayor Williams, Mayor Pro Ted Middleton, and honorable council members.

Uh good evening.

I'm Aaron Kane with the Planning and Development Department.

Before I begin, staff would like to state for the record that all planning department items have been advertised and noticed in accordance with state and local law and affidavits of all notices are on file in the planning department.

A request for a utility extension agreement, voluntary annexation, and initial zoning map change has been received from Laura Holliman for four parcels of land totaling twenty two point five four acres and located at fifteen oh two.

Doc Nichols Road and sixty-one oh two, sixty-one twenty-four, and sixty-two oh two Connard Road.

This annexation petition is for a contiguous expansion of the primary corporate limits.

The current zoning is residential rural.

The applicant proposes to change this designation to Plan Development Residential 2.988 with a graphic development plan to allow up to 67 single family and townhouse units.

The properties are currently designated mixed residential neighborhood on the place type map.

The proposed plan development residential 2.988 zoning is generally consistent with the designated use shown on the place type map.

If the proposed zoning is approved, there will be no change to the place type designation of mixed residential neighborhood.

Thank you.

Staff and the applicant are available to answer any questions.

Thank you.

You've heard the staff report.

Colleagues, are there any technical questions or first off?

All right.

At this time, I will declare the public hearing open.

And um ready for the presentation by the applicant.

Who must be wearing contacts now because he's not wearing glasses.

Actually, I got a LASIK.

Oh.

I know.

Also, I'll just take a moment to uh congratulate the council on the work you you all just did passing that resolution.

Uh I don't often get an opportunity to say those things at the day at the uh lectern.

Um but at least you you moved the agenda around so I could see that and comment on it, and great job.

Um first of all, let me let me thank Mr.

Kane for the presentation and good evening, Mayor Williams, Mayor Pro Tim, Middleton, and members of the City Council.

Mr.

I am Bill Ghost.

How much time do you think you need to?

Oh, I'm sorry.

Uh six minutes.

Let's put eight minutes on the clock, please.

Thank you.

Um I'm representing the applicant for this project, which is EPCON Communities.

For those of you who might not be familiar with EPCON, they are based out of Ohio, but they have a long-standing presence here in Durham, and they have a local team as well.

They've been building homes here for over a decade.

Uh years ago, EPCON built almost exclusively all uh age-restricted communities, but they have since adapted their model uh to the needs of this community.

Uh their product still very much caters to older buyers, but the communities are not age restricted.

Their communities in Durham are great options for buyers across the range, um, whether it's older or first-time buyers or folks who are starting a family, they build great communities here.

Uh this project will be no different.

Uh it is a little bit on the smaller side.

Um, just south of the proposed community, EPCON actively is building and marketing the courtyards at Oak Grove community.

And I think that context is important because it helps explain their vision.

The proposed development here is kind of like the second phase of that community.

Uh as I mentioned, at only 22 acres, it's rather small for a standalone development.

Even still, we are proud to be able to offer two different housing types across the 67 uh additional units.

Based on feedback received during uh courtyards at Doc Nichols rezoning, EPCON is targeting their smaller dinser product type for this community.

And while we're not sure the exact mix between single-family homes and townhomes, we know that both will be built, and that is a commitment on the development plan.

True to their history, EPCON has made some specific design commitments, which speak to the accessibility friendly nature of their homes.

Every dwelling unit will have first floor living options, including like a bedroom, full bath on the main floor, and at least one on-grade entrance, so you can enter the structure without the need to use some stairs.

Um, another concept that EPCON is continuing in this phase is the solar conduit in every unit.

Uh they have a sales and marketing campaign to promote the adoption of solar by their buyers, which includes demonstrating solar's usefulness and application by providing it on the main amenity in phase one as a selling point so that when they when they bring people in, they can show them that setup and offer that option.

And they've had some success in I know they rolled this out in one of their communities in Apex.

They've had some success in getting people to uh install solar with the initial build of a new home.

Uh and finally, I want to point out that they have committed to providing monetary contributions to DPS and the dedicated housing fund.

I believe it's uh 10,500 to DPS and 80,000 to the housing fund, which is pretty significant.

Ultimately, this is a small in-fill project that makes sense.

The staff report indicates the request is consistent with the place time map.

I think it's worth noting that there we had two required neighborhood meetings.

Our neighbors to our immediate west were essentially the only folks who attended either meeting.

And in between those two required meetings, we maintain an open line of communication with them.

And it's my understanding that they are supportive of our requests.

Initially, they expressed some concerns, primarily with connectivity.

We have addressed those concerns, and that is reflected in the development plan, and they appreciated those efforts.

So, like our neighbors and the planning commission, which recommended approval.

I hope you all will be able to support this project.

Our team is available to answer any questions you may have, and thank you for your time.

Wasn't quite six minutes.

Thank you very much.

Right.

That is from the applicant.

And the only speakers I have, I have four speakers who are all opponents.

Pam Andrews, Donna Stanback, Pam Williams, and Wanda Allen.

You guys will have REO Dodgery.

As you all are coming, I'm going to call the first person online first.

Monique Fletcher is not.

That's number 25.

So you have REO Dodge.

I don't see that.

Let me just call it out.

All right.

Is there Ariel Dotree?

Mr.

Mayor, there's no RL Dodd Tree online.

All right.

Thank you.

So we can now address our residents, address our residents in person.

Here from our residents in person.

Welcome.

Let me see.

Is this the coordinated presentation?

Is there a certain order?

Yes.

Pam is first.

Pam Williams first, yes.

Who's next?

Pam Andrews.

Pam.

Oh, Pam, yeah, Pam and Pam.

All right.

Yes.

Who's third?

Okay.

Yeah.

Wanda's not speaking.

Okay.

Okay.

Got it.

Thank you all.

Good afternoon.

My name is Pam Williams.

Would you put your microphone?

Usually my voice carries so far.

Yeah.

On TV, they can't hear you.

Okay.

Okay.

Good afternoon.

My name is Pam Williams.

I live in this general area of Doc Nichols.

There are 11 developments on this road right now that are have been approved or under construction.

You can see them on the area next to us.

Eight of them are under construction.

They are in two or uh pending zoning, this being one.

All developments are considered high density except for one, two, and eight, which are uh conservation subdivisions because Lick Creek floodplain is behind those.

Uh but of the other uh eight, their use of minimum UDA requirements.

Dot Nichols has uh narrow lanes uh with left-turn lanes at the subdivision.

Our critical concerns are environmental and infrastructure.

They are providing on this project minimum buffers, tree preservation, and minimum open space.

Maximum liable of 70 percent impervious.

This uh there is need for this applicant and others to commit to development practices that exceed basic UDO compliances, such as enhanced stormwater management.

We are requesting a hundred-year stormwater for construction and permanent basins.

Uh retain existing tree coverage, so we don't have to come back later and put in canopies or trees as uh was discussed at the uh consent agenda.

Reduce impervious surface.

We would like to see the imperfect surface on this project reduced to 50 percent.

This project leads directly into little uh to Lick Creek.

Uh we uh were requesting undisturbed buffers on the streams on this project, not just on the uh streams, but also in the boundaries.

So the uh mature tree canopy would be left in place, and we won't have to, nor the developer have to put in more, but we will have those uh tree canopies.

Um I appreciate uh what this uh development is doing.

It's only 2.98.

However, it's still not following the plan that the zoning uh people or planning commission has put in place.

This is on residential rule now, and it the proposed zoning is RB, which is uh also residential rule, but is two dwellings per per acre.

Um this uh came about uh the need for RB because so much of the land was being taken into high density and not allowing agriculture or enough space for agriculture.

This uh the main thing I'm bringing out here is that uh we are not staying with the plan, although it does mix uh meet the mixed use development with uh what the town homes is a single family.

We're still not following our plan that has people have spent lots of time developing and trying to work it out.

And my question is are when they we change these zonings.

Does it get recalculated how much we're providing?

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next I have Pam Andrews.

Thank you, Pam Williams.

That was good.

Good evening.

My name is Pam Andrews, Wake Forest Highway.

Uh long-term sediment pollution, which Sound Rivers has documented in the Lick Creek watershed, can kill an entire aquatic ecosystem from the very building blocks of aquatic life up.

Despite the sensitive nature of this area, the developers have not committed to going above and beyond any of the UDO requirements for open space, sediment and erosion control, or tree retention.

This bare minimum approach to development is short-sighted and will inevitably perpetuate the status quo of water quality pollution.

Every single housing development that has been approved in this small subwatershed has been solely residential, car dependent sprawl with minimum affordable housing proffers and little to the uh no what little to the way of contribution for schools, greenways, and other community necessities.

There are many possibilities for this parcel that would serve the environment and surrounding communities for this proposal.

Next.

The degradation of Lick Creek is truly unbelievable.

The sediment leaving this site will travel through small tributaries, making its way to Falls Lake, which is just 4.37 miles away.

Yes, this is a violation of the Clean Water Act of 1972.

There is a federal lawsuit still in progress, but it does not stop the destruction.

Next.

Durham County is now beginning to advertise its unveiling of the algae turf scrubber costing millions.

Why?

Because the development has destroyed Falls Lake.

Next.

Masquerading, clear cutting, blasting is causing sediment pollution in our streams, wetlands, and lakes.

32 percent of these uh policies will be met at site plan.

So they are automatically approved in the comprehensive plan policies evaluation.

Twenty-four percent of the comprehensive plan policies policies were not met.

We request no blasting in a hundred-year retention ponds, provide innovative storm management practices that will preserve and enhance water quality.

Neighbors like my friend Paige live across the street.

She has had first-time homeowner in this county.

She has had blasting on her north, south, east, and west.

Yes, every single side of her home has experienced blasting, causing lots of internal damage as well as property encroachment on the real property line, as well as the front yard was taken to widening project without her knowledge.

Neighbors and the environment continue to suffer.

Just say no until we protect the environment and the citizens.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Ms.

Stanby.

Good afternoon, good evening.

Um Durham City Council.

My name is Donna Steinbach, and I live on Jimmy Rogers Road.

I'm a lifelong Durham resident.

Um of the concerns mentioned were the infrastructure.

I'm especially concerned about the medical.

Both my children live in Durham County, and we and most of my family does, but a lot of us go to Wake County because we can't get the services that we need in a timely, cost-effective and sometimes expertise that are needed.

As some of you know, my son had colon cancer, and we couldn't even get the EMS, but they didn't have the setup for the emergency room that they needed to take care of his issues due to a reaction to the uh the therapy.

Um I talked to it a nice lady this afternoon, and she was talking about she went into her uh due urgent care and then was sent to wake uh emergency from there because the emergency rooms and the hospitals are staying so full.

We've got to do a better job planning for uh this group.

Um I'd like to speak next on the school capacity.

Um I'd like to say first uh thank you for the uh the 10,500 contribution for 875 per student.

Um but we have a major problem in that the cumulative statistics and the uh like school capacity and traffic are not being presented to the Durham citizens in these forums.

And we're uh tracking some of them ourselves because they need to be understood that we are at an overcapacity with these new developments and in the especially in the school area in Southeast Durham.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Those are um just to confirm, Miss Wanda is not speaking.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you all so much.

Those are all of the speakers that I have signed up.

So at this time, I'll declare this.

I'm sorry.

Uh do you want to respond to any of the comments you uh heard?

Sorry, I was taking notes.

Um second.

Yeah, a couple things.

Um they want to see lower impervious here.

One of the speakers mentioned they wanted to see lower impervious here.

And in talking with the team, I think that's something that we can accomplish.

Uh we I believe uh as it sits on the development plan, we would be max uh I'm sorry, the uh maximum allowed impervious would be 70 percent.

I think we can reduce that down to 50 percent, which was the request that I heard.

I think that's something we can accommodate on this site.

So you know, with that feedback, I guess we'll add that commitment or at least change the maximum amount of impervious.

Um I also just wanted to clarify my understanding with the RB zoning that might be shown uh on the new zoning map that's being um processed uh was that RB zoning was generally for areas that are not annexed into the city.

This request includes an annexation, and it's not clear to me what the requested um or I'm sorry, what the uh proposed zoning would be if the property were already annexed.

Um I I guess staff can clarify on that, but that was my understanding about RB zoning.

It's not necessarily the case that RB zoning is what's ultimately recommended for this area.

I believe the staff report already shows that the request that we have in front of you is consistent with the place type map.

Uh it also includes annexation, which allows for obviously more than rural development.

Um, but it is still uh not all that dense as had been mentioned.

Um I think I'll leave it right there.

Thank you.

Right.

So uh I have no other speakers.

Did you get that recorded?

Mr.

King?

Yes.

Um 50 percent impervious services committed instead of 70 percent.

We have that.

Thank you.

All right, thank you.

And this time I will declare the public hearing closed and back before the council.

Colleagues.

Thanks.

Um I have one quick question for staff.

We've talked about this before, but I just want to re-reiterate.

When we're looking at impact statements, we are looking at current conditions for things like traffic and schools, not the conditions that will be once these other eight um developments that are already in progress are finished.

Is that correct?

So when you are looking at schools, what you have before you are the numbers.

Now they are going on a year old.

They are the 20th day numbers that are reported from DPS, and those are actuals.

Um we will be updating those once we have the 20th day numbers this year, which we should get probably two, three weeks, somewhere around there.

At least that will be the 20th day, and then sometime soon after that, and we will update our model that we get from DPS as well as the actual numbers and percent capacity based on that, but those are based on actual numbers we get from DPS.

Um regarding impacts to transportation, those are based on the you're talking about the AADTs, the current roadway capacity, and so forth.

Yes, those are come from NC DOT, usually they can come from uh the city if the city does its own traffic counts.

Those are usually done on a biannual basis, and they are actuals to the most recent numbers that we have.

Do we have the ability to do projected on either of those?

I I would want to defer that to our transportation department.

I I don't know, I'm not sure what the capacity is to do those when we do a TIA, when we do a tra when a traffic impact analysis is done, that does take into account approved zonings, approved developments in the area, but those are not reflected in these numbers that you see in the staff report.

Those are actuals that you're seeing in the staff report, whether we could do a projection of those based on approvals and so forth, I would really need to defer to our transportation engineers about that.

Okay.

Yeah, I mean it's just something that I think about a lot.

We're seeing I mean, I have in our staff report at least three, sorry, four projects that are within a half mile.

Um so we know that the numbers that we're looking at to make the decisions aren't quite accurate because we know that four other developments within a half mile are going to impact these numbers, right?

Right.

Uh so um yeah, just for accuracy's sake, I think it would be helpful if there's a possibility to do some projection as as a general idea.

So thank you.

Um I have a couple questions for your you, attorney Ghosh.

The um public space, it's a maximum of three.

Are you all able to commit to actually having three distinct areas or having a a minimum acreage?

It's the way that I read it, it's a max of three areas with each of them being at least half an acre.

Are you able to do a minimum commitment tonight as opposed to a maximum?

Um yes, we are.

And I think we can get some numbers on that.

Um then maybe as a as what while you're gonna go discuss that, my other thing is um are any of these areas going to be open to the public?

Uh as a general matter, no.

These will be HOA maintained pro you know, open space areas.

Is there any conversation that might be had about having some of them set aside for the public?

I guess I would ask if is there a conversation that the city is willing to have about liability coverage for public spaces that are maintained by a private HOA.

Generally, that hasn't happened.

And generally I think that's why developers are not inclined to open those spaces to the public generally.

Okay.

Um do you want me to give you my list before you chat with your client?

I'm sorry?

Do you want me to give you my list before you chat with your client?

Well, yeah, sure.

I mean, they I think they're probably looking at the numbers.

I just had a couple of other things.

So one was the hundred-year storm that was mentioned, and I was wondering if you could speak to that.

Yeah, sure.

Um I think some background on that would be helpful in answering that question.

Um we are going to detain the one, two, and ten year storm.

And it's my understanding that we're fairly low in the basin and basically discharge directly into FEMA map floodplain, or more correctly, we discharge into an open channel that ends up in the hundred-year floodplain not far from the site.

Uh in other words, we're very low in the basin.

Um so because of that, there is minimal risk of downstream flooding because we're basically at the bottom.

Um in this scenario, over detention oftentimes is not recommended because that can have unintended consequences uh for actually upstream impacts that might not otherwise occur because you're detaining too much on a site that's that low in the basin.

Um for what it's worth, the existing community being built phase one that I mentioned earlier on the south side of Canard did not make a commitment to handling the 100 year storm for the same reason.

Um and because of the challenging topography there.

Um I understand that the SEMs in base one are quite deep, even though they're not handling the 100 year storm because they're that far down in the basin.

Uh and additionally, that project had uh impervious limitation at 24 percent.

So the SEMs there weren't even necessarily required.

It's already overdetained uh on that site there.

So a hundred year storm is is one not something that we would be able to commit to, and two might not be wise to commit to uh in this specific location.

That makes sense, thank you.

Um and then there was some conversation about buffers from um a few speakers.

I know that there's obviously the required buffers around streams, but there was some other conversation about tree canopy coverage field.

I mean, our tree canopy, I believe is is what the UDA requires.

Um and I don't know that we'd be able to go over that.

The uh buffers.

I suspect that this will require the um six.

But that's like a site plan issue?

But there will be buffers if that's if that is the question.

And then I know that this is a small area, and I know that you talked about that um it is a bit of an infill.

It is also around quite a lot of other similar housing development that is moving forward.

And I was just wondering if there was any conversation about commercial or anything else in this space to go along with some of this residential.

Well, to be honest with you, Epcon does not build uh commercial space.

So it's probably not something they considered.

I would also, just from my own experience, say Doc Nichols Road is not the road where you want commercial.

Um it's you know, it's not a main drag, so to speak.

Uh closer to 70 or even 98 might make more sense for a commercial uh for for a commercial square footage or non-residential square footage.

But this location, I mean, I I wouldn't think it made sense anyway.

But Epcon hadn't considered it, if that's your question.

Yeah, I understand that.

I I think what is what's hard for us is that we get these projects one at a time.

And so by the time that we get this project, yes, I understand it might not be in the most ideal spot, but now we've got a ton of residential with no um accessibility to any commercial, any transit, any health care.

Um so as we continue to see the infill, just it's an it's something that I think about is like how can we bring those things in.

If we really want to have a 15-minute walking city, like our comprehensive plan is asking for they have to it has to be brought in at some point.

And when you're kind of doing the infill, even though it may not be ideal for your project, it's just something that I hope folks will think about coming before us.

Um I'll look for an answer from you on the minimum public space and outside of that, those are my questions.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh Mr.

Baker?

Yeah, quick question for staff.

Um just looking at the development plan.

Um it looks like there's not a connection in the northwest portion of the site to the street that is existing.

It's coming down.

There's I'm sorry, you said there is or is not an extension.

It looks on the development plan, it looks like there's at least the version of the development plan that I have.

Okay.

Looks like there's not a connection to Gooding Street.

Has that been changed?

Gooding Street.

There's a connection to Cnard Street.

Good evening, Councilmember.

Sarah Young with the Planning and Development Department.

Uh this project is actually currently undergoing site plan review, and what you don't see is that there is a very thin, what we call spite strips.

It's a a piece of land that's relatively skinny intervening there.

Um during the site plan process, we have made the uh request that that connection be provided.

Um we will have to figure out later how to fill that gap.

Um but just know that that that is why I think things are not showing up a certain way, but it is being caught at site plan.

Site plan caught it, so it's happening.

Okay.

Thank you.

That's it.

Councilmember recovery rule.

Thank you.

I have this is a question for staff.

In the I think it's attachment H, the comprehensive plan consistent rate consistency review on the last page, 11 of 11, it says it's not consistent because it would create a 2.95-acre donut hole.

But then when I go to the I guess it's the yeah, the utility attachment E utility map.

Okay.

Everything around it is city already.

So isn't it closing a donut hole?

It's not.

So if you can be kind of hard to see.

If you're looking at that graphic, you see the site that's cross-hatched.

And if you look across Doc Nichols, you'll see a kind of a it's kind of rectangular, but its west side has a bit of a curve to it.

That one parcel is not going to be annexed.

And with this site be if this site is annexed, that means that one parcel on the other side of Doc Nichols will not be connected to the rest of the area that is not annexed.

And so that one 2.9 acre parcel will become a donut hole.

The applicant has reached out to the property owner to request or or to offer to join this annexation.

They have declined.

Because that's remaining a donut hole, this one becomes a donut hole?

Like it doesn't make any sense to me.

Sorry.

Because when I'm looking at this vicinity map, it's clearly the dot that the light little dotted blue on either side of the parcel on that side of Doc Nichols.

So there is one piece that it's small, but there is one piece on the east side of Doc Nichols that is not the dotted blue.

And that is the one piece.

Okay.

Maybe if we look at the annexation map attachment D, that maybe.

Yeah, because at least on this one, it looks like it's on the opposite side of the road.

So it wouldn't be, right?

But whatever.

It's I I feel like we get into these things because I can see why technically it is, but everything else adjacent to it is.

So I don't know how do we it's just more for your information.

We do have comp plan policies that say we shouldn't be creating donut holes.

Um at the same time, we can't require that someone annex into the city.

So just it's your information for part of your consideration that annexing this site will create that donut hole on the east side of Doc Nichols.

Right.

But the way it's phrased, in my opinion, in that document is that this is actually causing the donut hole when it's it's it's basically it's because a neighbor doesn't want to do it.

But that that has nothing to do with this applicant.

So how do we phrase it in an accurate way?

Because if the policy is we don't want to create a donut hole, which I totally get, right?

And so the then it's not consistent.

It's be it's a create it's it's creating a donut hole by no fault of the applicant.

So how does it only in that I'm trying to think of uh of a way only in that if this was not this wasn't this one parcel was not a donut hole?

This annex is kind of creating a clog, so to speak.

Think of it as a drain, something draining down.

Now you're putting a clog, so to speak, in the uh connection of this one parcel to the rest of it.

I understand that.

I guess what I'm saying is we might need to refine our language around a donut hole.

Because it should not be the applicant's responsibility.

If we to your point, we cannot force annexation anymore, right?

So it it is independent of this applicant and this project.

This project is not create, it's creating it by default, but not intentionally.

And so in my opinion, there should be some language that states that in the in the report.

Because if I'm reading it just straightforward, right?

It's like, oh, it's creating a donut hole, but when I go look at the maps, I'm like, how is that doing that, right?

So that's I'm just gonna it's like a uh a forced contradiction or a force noncompliance, which could just have some modifying language just so we can clarify in case we ever run into this again.

Um big.

And I know folks that are not doing this work on a daily basis, they're like, what the heck are they talking about?

So I was uh perplexed when I saw that.

Council member wrists.

I'm sorry, I had a couple more.

Sorry.

I'm sorry, go ahead.

Go ahead.

Um this is about the buffering.

Can the the folks who were what were the the some of the opponent opponents had very clear language on the buffering?

And I just want to get back to that really quickly, if that can be met or not.

But I couldn't your slides are not.

Can I ask her to reread that language on the buffering?

What was the language on the buffering?

No, nope, nope, nope.

I'm sorry.

We we we are starting to get more people watching online, and uh when we turn these mics off, all you see is our lips moving, you can't hear anything.

No problem, no problem.

Uh we were asking for a hundred foot well, the strain buffers to be undisturbed and any other buffers within the property, such as the boundary buffers, project buffers that goes on to be undisturbed.

So it will maintain mature trees and the canopy that's out there now.

Thank you.

I have a question for the applicant now, then.

Okay.

Is that even possible to do what what has been I mean, because you to even access the site, you're gonna disturb some bound some buffering, right?

Some boundary of something.

So how is that?

Yeah, and and if I'm not mistaken, some of this area on this specific acreage is we'll actually be adding trees in order to create the buffer because the trees don't exist.

Uh because I'm sorry, because of what the trees?

Because some of the areas where there will be buffers, we're actually having to add trees to make it.

We're actually having to add trees to make it a good thing.

Right.

Okay.

So the way that it's being discussed right now, can we do an undisturbed buffer?

No.

That's why I just didn't.

But there will be buffers.

I mean, I don't I don't know that there's a great way to talk about in a zoning compliance.

There will be buffers.

They cannot be undisturbed because some of the areas don't meet the required uh opacity for buffers.

So we'll be in there planting trees.

Um there will be buffers.

I mean, I don't know what's the same.

Yeah, that's fine.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Councilmember Ruth.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

I'll stay away from the donut hull arguments.

Let others take that one.

Um I just have a couple of comments.

So I I appreciate the comments from the neighbors and appreciate you always coming out.

I understand your concerns about traffic and schools and emergency services and water quality.

Um there is a lot of development in that area, in some ways following the development plan, the comprehensive plan that we approved here in council.

Um but I understand a lot of that impact is in your area, and we understand that.

Um I do want to address the water issue because I know we often attend the UN RBA meetings together.

Um certainly Falls Lake is receiving some of this impact, but I think it's important to note as a director of UNRBA says that Falls Lake is meeting all of its uses, clean water, recreation, fishing, and so forth.

The lake is cleaner than it was 20 years ago.

And so we're not certainly not going in the wrong direction with Falls Lake.

Um I will also say that Lick Creek, which does receive some of the sediments from the development receives a B on this the city's State of the Streams report.

So it's certainly one of the healthier streams in our community.

Um just want to note that.

I think this is a good infill project.

It is it is on the playside map placed up map in mixed residential neighborhood, and that's why residential is going there.

Um I appreciate the expansion.

I know this is a smaller item, but the expansion of the bike and pet facilities along Kennard Road that BPAC recommended, so thank you for that.

Um, this is a strong contribution to the Affordable Housing Fund.

This is, I think by my calculation, or I think I got this in the planning department.

This is the highest per unit contribution we have received in a development that's that doesn't have that is not proffering affordable units.

I think this is the highest per unit contribution in the last 20 months since I've been on council.

Thank you for that.

Um I appreciate the accommodation of lower impervious on this thing.

So um I think the planning commission got this one right, and I will be supporting this case.

Thank you.

Mayor Professor?

Any comments?

Thank you, colleagues.

Uh so the question for staff.

So with respect to the donut hole um conversation.

The line in the memo that this is a contiguous expansion of the primary corporate limits, that's still an accurate characterization.

Yes.

Okay.

All right.

Um I um I I think it's interesting to note there there's there's a trend that I'm noticing these cases.

The more the planning commission has been approving these cases, there's been less reliance on them.

Um particularly when it comes to in fill um development.

Um I I I just want to note that.

Um I I agree.

I think they got this one right.

It's a small um development.

I do also want to ask about uh um Councilmember Cook's um line of questioning intrigued me.

The the TIA takes into account developments that have been um approved.

Is that Yes, that's correct.

All right.

So so and I I I sort of heard the give and take the the number what don't we get?

Because if if is there inf what what's the whole deal with the information that we don't have the benefit of when we're making a decision?

Because I was always in the impression the TIA did take in.

So what is what is it that we don't see?

So a traffic impact analysis, a TIA um will look at uh a proposed development, the number of um trips it will generate, the number of peak hour trips it will generate, and where those trips are expected to go.

And there's a lot of traffic engineering that goes into that that I am not smart or trained enough to give you exact details on.

Um a TIA will get will incorporate all of the proposed developments.

That's part of the process, all the proposed developments of what they are expected traffic will bring as well.

Uh a TIA under the UDO is triggered if you are going to produce 150 peak hour trips or more.

If you're not, if your project is small enough that you do not hit that threshold, you're not required to do a TIA.

So we don't have all that background.

So all we're providing in the staff report at this time is the AADT, the average annual daily trips on a on particular road segments that are going to be affected, such as Doc Nichols Road.

It does not take into account necessarily all of the projected trips surrounding it.

That's just, you know, that's that's not part of the current staff report.

I can talk to uh our transportation professionals and ask what might be involved in surrounding what the surrounding developments are, but again, that's going to depend on whether or not a TIA was done or not.

And again, we can get very, you know, you're provided very, you know, kind of round numbers on the number of daily trips that are projected based on based on a formula and modeling.

Um but that's all we have without a TIA.

Yeah, no, to the spirit of my colleagues' line of inquiry, I'm I'm I think the more information we have, the better.

Sure.

Um does there's a perception, and I'm guilty of this.

And you know, when we talk about uh making these decisions, that the personal experience of sitting in traffic gets on my nerves.

And I I tend to, in my layperson's point of view, interpret that as we have reached maximum capacity because I'm sitting in traffic.

But I'm doing it at the time of day that everybody is using a road to try to get to work.

And scientifically, that does not necessarily mean that that road has reached its capacity.

It's just that I think you know, the the the um analogy I've used uh I've I've brought my bag on a plane, and there wasn't room in the uh overhead.

So they had to take it and put it under the plane.

There's plenty of capacity.

The plane has plenty of capacity.

I'm just inconvenienced because I can't have my bag near me.

But that plane, those jet engines can lift my small bag without even thinking about it.

It just has to go somewhere else.

And I think sometimes that we we we use our personal inconvenience or discomfort to make a scientific judgment about the capacity of the road.

I'm guilty of it because I say, you know, I use 70 every day.

Um, but there will come a time, obviously, because it's not unlimited capacity, where we need to start thinking about it.

Um so more information is better than less.

So I want to associate myself with that.

My suspicion, however, is given what I've seen thus far, we have not reached that point yet, because if we have, then that is not a case for um not approving this development.

That is a case for a moratorium for all developments, which brings us to a different conversation.

If if the if the capacity is not there for a small project, it's certainly not there for a larger project, it's not there for any project, which changes the nature of the conversation.

And we have to telegraph that as a body.

We can't in good faith make decisions on a case-by-case basis when we've settled that the capacity has been exacerbated or or exceeded for the entire area.

And I have and I I I hope our friend and neighbors understand the quandary when we make these type of decisions.

If there's a case for nut for one, then it applies to all coming afterwards.

And then we have to be honest about that and and make those decisions.

Um but I appreciate uh the line of question and the line of inquiry, and I hope we can get more information rather than less.

But I think the uh planning commission got this one right.

It this is in-fill development.

It is in fill um development.

Um I'll be supporting it.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Just one more quick question from Mr.

Kane.

So on this question of TIA.

So we get in our packet, we get we get data on the average annual daily trips, right?

Um but that's not used to generate whether you do a TIA or not.

It's it's the you mentioned 150 whatever.

So it's 150 peak hour trips AM and or PM.

So we don't see that data in our packet, though, do we?

As to what triggers that, no.

Right.

If this proposal would where that would fall, we don't like it.

We don't see the data that says what maybe it's 100 sort of trips or whatever, peak trips.

We don't see that.

No, we haven't we have not generally provided that.

So you just you just tell us if there's a if it goes over the threshold, then we'll get the TIA, which I think the next case we're gonna see that, right?

Yes.

If it if it's over the threshold, you will get the TIA.

If you do not have a TIA in your packet, it is under it is under a projected 150 peak hour trips.

And and why is it why is that chosen instead of average annual daily trips?

What's the sort of like the theory around the theory around that is that as Bear Pro Tem Middleton explained, most people experience you know high traffic at peak hour times, AM commute, PM commute during the week.

That's when you're dealing with the most traffic.

That's where traffic digestion is having the most impacts on residents.

And so we use that as a threshold rather than somebody saying, well, you know, I don't have 150 peak hour trips at 2 a.m.

on a Tuesday.

No, we want to see are you actually going to trip that at the highest demand?

I mean I wonder whether it would be helpful to have that to figure the the rush hour trip just so we know like I don't know if this case is like close to that number, the 150 or down at 25, like I'll need to check with Raleigh Thomas, who is our transportation engineer in the planning and development department.

I don't know if they do that calculation or if they simply run a model and say it's below 150, and so we don't need to do a TIA.

I don't I don't know.

And I think I just don't know if that if a certain number is spit out for her to be able to do to be able to provide that information.

Or is it up like that?

Or if it's an up or down.

I would appreciate that.

Thank you.

Sure.

Thank you.

I I uh had similar lines of questioning or commentary, rather, um that my colleagues have shared.

Um I do know that there is there is quite a bit of, you know, um uh properties that have been approved out there.

I've met some of the new neighbors that are coming out there.

Um and they are really excited to join the community.

Um do we know about, I guess, like in the overall status report of how close we're getting to the point where we may need um I don't know, uh a new fire station or a new school.

Um I'm speaking collectively here, not just of one.

This is contributing to it.

But so regarding schools, I would defer that to DPS.

I don't want we don't want to step on DPS's toes as they do their planning for future facilities.

Um the numbers that we are getting are coming from DPS, so they're certainly aware of their current capacities at all of their facilities.

Um regarding um EMS, that's a conversation that we have begun with the county about how we might incorporate um EMS into the overall um development review process and how we might incorporate that.

Uh that's going to be a big conversation that we need to have, and we are we are not anywhere close in that conversation to to figuring out how that might move forward.

Um regarding roads, you know, this that is just we're trying to provide the best information we can, but we will certainly look into uh what other additional information we might be able to provide.

Thank you.

You you answered my question.

Uh basically the information is coming from the facilities or the government, the agencies that are responsible for it.

Uh and oftentimes I think you know, and of course, I I welcome residents coming to speak with us.

Uh but I we have a very trusted staff that is communicating multi through multi-agencies to provide that data.

Um I I do think that you know we we advocate on behalf as residents based on our our experience and our love and care for the community uh in which we live, but you know, we also are forced to uh which is responsible uh utilize you know actual data to inform the decisions that we make.

Now we could say, you know what, let's put five fire stations over there.

It wouldn't be a good use or responsible you know, use of tax dollars.

Um I I just want to I wanted to ask that question and have you respond as you did to we are receiving you know uh real-time data uh from the agencies that are often advocated for, which I appreciate, but the schools are probably in a better decision to make uh better better position to make those decisions than we are.

And I'm sure that they will let us know when they reach that capacity point.

I'm not sure of how many little kids are going in this community, but I I do know that there is uh I think recently I drove from Olive, I drove I drove down Olive Branch from 98, and yeah, I I was in Briar Creep before I knew it because there were so many houses when it was just all fields uh at some point.

But this is an in-field project.

And I I don't want to hear anything about sprawling when we have uh urban growth boundary and we are approving in field development.

You know, um I think that we are managing this as best we can.

Uh so um I do think that Planning Commission got this right.

Um I look forward to supporting it.

All right.

I don't have any other sign-ups or comments.

Uh yes, I do.

Uh, I just want an answer to the question that I had asked earlier.

All right.

Um let me just clarify what your question was.

It was related to the open space commitment, which uh basically says there will be no more than three recreation open space areas, each of which would be no less than half an acre.

And your question is.

Can we make a commitment about a maximum?

No, I want I would like a minimum.

You've you've made a maximum commitment.

There will be a max of three areas.

But you could have zero areas, and that's the same thing.

Well, no, you can't zero.

Are you committing to three areas?

No, no, no.

We're committing to that.

I mean, we're no.

This commitment is meant to be backtracked.

The UDA requires open space for any project.

Some of that open space has to be recreation open space.

There aren't necessarily a whole lot of parameters on what that needs to look like.

It's just the amount.

So what this commitment was meant to do is say, I mean, theoretically you could cut it up into ten small areas that may not have any kind of real significance or use.

Um so that this commitment was meant to say there will be at least these, I mean at most three areas uh of you know half, you know, significant size, so that you're not left with a community that has recreation open space on paper that isn't actually used for recreation or usable for recreation.

Yes.

But at a minimum, there will be one recreation open space.

It's required.

Um it would be a minimum of I think one point two acres, just based off of what is required in the UDF.

Do you all have any more specifics around it?

Because the question, I guess, is like are we going to have a recreational center and a pool, or are we going to have a listed like a bunch of different things.

So will you do you have any more specifics?

Will you are you planning to build up to three?

Are you looking at maybe just having one?

Do you have any more information on it?

I well, I'm a little confused.

What is in the commitment is more than you see on most cases about what it might be.

Most cases just say what the open space is.

So I mean I thought, you know, the idea here was to provide a menu of items.

And you're saying can it be more specific than that?

Was that is that what your question is?

Can it be more specific than what's in the commitment?

Yes.

Can it be more specific?

A maximum is has a range.

There are various combinations that you could do within up to three.

Do you all have any more details on it?

That's all.

It will be one to three spaces.

Okay.

The answer is no.

That's fine.

I just yeah, that's fine.

The answer is no.

That this is the specificity level that y'all can place on it, is what you have put on here.

I mean, my understanding is they are planning on it to be as large as they can in one area, but what's going to go in it, I don't know.

Okay.

Thank you.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, that brings us to uh the motion.

So I'll entertain a motion to conduct to uh adopt an ordinance annexing annexing courtyards at Oak Grove into the City of Durham and to authorize the city manager to enter into a utility extension agreement with Epcon Communities Carolina LLC.

Move is right.

Second.

It's been moved and properly seconded.

Adam Clerk, please open the vote.

Do you want to give those?

I am waiting on one more vote.

Has everyone voted?

Is it not six?

No, I just have five votes.

All right.

Madam Clerk, I know you said your mouse was a very good idea.

Pro Tem Middleton.

I don't have a vote for the Mr.

Groton.

Uh he's voted.

Oh, now I see it.

We're good.

All right.

Now close to vote, please.

The motion is passed six to zero.

All right.

Thank you.

And I'll entertain a motion to adopt an ordinance, amending the unit unified development ordinance by taking property out of residential rural, Falls Jordan watershed overlay, District B county jurisdiction, and establishing the same as planned as Plan Development Residential 2.988 Falls Jordan watershed overlay district B city jurisdiction.

Moves read.

Second.

Please close the vote.

Motion passes unanimously.

Thank you.

And lastly, I'll entertain a motion to adopt a consistency statement as required by North Carolina General Statute Section 160 D-605.

Move to adopt consistency.

Second.

Please close the vote.

And the motion passes 6-0.

Awesome.

Thank you.

All right, the time is 9 15.

Let's take uh just a few minutes.

Uh opposite minutes.

Uh it's a range.

Uh let's uh take ten um ten minutes and we'll come back at nine twenty-six- I came to the city to develop leadership and supervisory skills.

I stayed because of the city's culture and dedication to serving residents.

The city of Durham, where careers meet community.

To connect with a career that serves the Bull City, visit Durham NC dot gov slash careers.

I came to the city for the great insurance and retirement benefits, but I stayed for the stability and vacation time.

The city of Durham, where careers meet community.

To connect with a career that serves the Bull City, visit Durham SC.gov slash careers.

The City of Durham, where careers make community.

To connect with a career that serves the Bull City, visit DurhamNC dot gov slash careers.

Hey, can I help you?

Oh, thank you.

Thank you so much.

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Home is where love resides.

Memories are created, and laughter warms the heart.

That's why the Durham Human Relations Division is committed to enforcing the Fair Housing Act, which prohibits unlawful discrimination based on race, color, disability, religion, sex, familial status, or national original.

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All right, we're almost done for tonight.

We have a quick one right here.

Okay, everybody's knocking on wood.

Um next up is the consolidated annexation.

Durham Gateway Ed Briar Creek.

Ready for the staff report.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

A request for a utility extension agreement, voluntary annexation, and initial zoning map change has been received from Grey Harrell of Beacon Partners for fourteen acres of land totaling three hundred and eight point three eight acres and located east of Leesville Road and north of U.S.

Highway 70, with the eastern portion of the site in Wake County.

Staff and the applicant are available to answer any questions.

Councilmember Cook.

I mean, they they said it came from staff, so I would assume that it came from your department.

Councilmember Cook, the Environmental Affairs Board is not staff from the planning department, so it could be that they sought information about this item from the staff that supports them, which would be general services.

I saw that email late today and wasn't able to confirm it.

But since the Environmental Affairs Board is not normally a part of the review process for planning it, it wouldn't really fall to planning to have informed them of it.

So it could be information they got firsthand from staff.

It could be information they got secondhand.

I'd be happy to do some follow-up information, but again, I wouldn't have expected planning to do that.

I understand that.

And I know that they're not staff, um, but it does say that we were told by city staff that this item would be considered at the September 15th meeting, is what it says.

Yes, that's all that.

Okay.

Any other questions for staff?

All right.

At this time, I will declare the public hearing open.

Uh welcome, Ms.

Schwetler.

How much time you need?

This is a big case, an hour.

Uh Mr.

Mayor, this case has more commitments than this council has ever seen.

Um, but I am going to try to do it in 12 minutes.

12.

All right, let's put 15 on the clock, please.

Welcome.

Uh good evening, Mayor Williams, Mayor Potem Middleton, and members of the council.

I'm Jamie Schwadler with Parker Poe, 301 Fayetteville Street here on behalf of the applicants, Beacon Partners, and HM partners.

This team is proud to present a mixed-use project strategically located on Highway 70 on 310 acres bordering the Wake County and Durham County lines.

The project highlights include a mixed use of our research and development, commercial and housing, forming a regional employment center, coupled with significant road construction, environmental commitments, and land set aside for 175 affordable units plus one million dollars to the dedicated housing fund.

Now, these developers are not new to North Carolina, nor are they new to this area.

They have developed projects like this, the combination of these uses throughout North Carolina, and some of those representative projects are shown on your screen.

Locally, they're responsible for the Nightdale Gateway Project, which won a 2024 Nightdale Community Appearance Award, as well as an industrial complex in uh in Apex, North Carolina.

But locally, they're known for their unanimous approval of the Durham Tech North Duke campus in 2023 and last year's approval of the South Miami Boulevard multifamily cases.

So they're no stranger to this council, but they've really combined forces to bring something totally revolutionary before the council tonight.

The annexation of this parcel makes sense because it's completely consistent with policy 165 of UNU comprehensive plan.

It fills a significant donut hole and is also consistent with uh the City of Raleigh and City Durham's um annexation agreement, which it recognizes that this parcel could be annexed into the city.

It's also um custom made for the place type map designation.

Uh the mixed-use neighborhood designation is is contemplated for those areas built on large previously undeveloped areas on the outskirts of the city, but within the urban growth boundary, such as this.

It includes commercial uses that can be easily accessed by residents and envisions those residents being able to access those services within a 15-minute walk, and we'll show you how easy that is to do tonight.

Um the combination of this guidance led us to uh find a split zoning most appropriate for this because there simply isn't one district that encompasses all of the policies that Durham wants to see here.

And for that reason, we've split this into industrial light to the screen left, shown in green, adjacent to other industrial uses along the Highway 70 corridor, and a planned development residential shown in blue toward the right of your screen because it's adjacent to Carolina Arbors and other residential uses.

Now I'd like to just highlight the key commitments, and we'll have to just go through them quickly and I'll be happy to answer questions.

But this regional employment center is providing a maximum of 1.2 million square feet of research and development office and warehouse uses, a key employment driver, along with supporting restaurant and retail uses that allow workers to walk to get their services or lunch.

For quality design, we're kind of echoing what we've done in Nightdale and providing six design commitments addressing architectural compatibility to provide ground level interest and make this pedestrian-friendly while still providing those jobs in the industrial portion.

For green stormwater commitments, we are committing to at least two green stormwater measures.

And before you you'll see the written commitment to bioretention, permeable pavement systems, or rainwater harvesting complete with educational signage.

But tonight we're also proffering another type of uh GSI called a submerged gravel wetland.

Now the picture on the right side of your screen shows this wetland.

It's an innovative type of wetland that's been used in the RDU authorities uh economy park three, and we were directed by David Morgan to consult with some of their consultants, including Dr.

Bill Hunt with North Carolina Central North Carolina State, excuse me, who's pursued this in Greensboro and in Raleigh, and is an innovative design that allows essentially submerged plants to thrive and provide a more complete wetland without providing glare or uh harm to the uh foul that could migrate there.

In addition to that green stormwater infrastructure, we are treating to the 50-year storm in this district.

We're committing to stormwater control measures not within stream buffers, a minimum of two acres of open space, which will contain environmentally sensitive areas consistent with your comprehensive plan policies, and additional tree coverage that exceeds the UDO because the minimum is 12%.

The key PDR commitments to the remember screen, I guess, right or to the east side were developed in consult with many of the surrounding neighbors.

So we would like to thank the participation of the Carolina Arbors folks, Fendal Farms, Preserve Rural Durham, and the Leesville Road Coalition who each contributed their thoughts and concerns and ideas to lead to this really innovative combination of commitments tonight.

And that includes housing supply close to the new employment center.

We're providing up to $1,750 dwelling units.

We're committing to a minimum of two different housing types.

And at full build out, no housing type will exceed 80% of the total density on the property.

So you know for sure you're getting that mix of two housing types that's envisioned by the comprehensive plan.

To address Durham's affordability crisis, we're setting aside seven acres of land reserved at a value of two and a half million dollars that the city would otherwise have to purchase or a purchaser would actually have to contract with the landowners here.

And we're reserving that for income restricted units to provide 175 units at 80% AMI for 30 years.

Plus, in addition to some of the concerns raised at the planning commission, we're adding a $1 million donation to the dedicated housing fund as potential gap financing so that we can really ensure the delivery of these 175 units.

In addition to that, we're providing for up to 150,000 square feet of non-residential commercial areas limited to pods two and three by the new parkway that's shown in orange and blue on your map.

We've clustered the height and the intensity of uses along the uh the parkway extension there and reserve the other two areas in green and in red at a lower density and a lower excuse me, a lower height and then uh less intense uses.

In addition to that appropriate scale and clustering, we're providing 70% impervious limit where we weatherwise wouldn't have to commit to that, 100 foot stream buffers, treating to the 100 year storm, and providing stormwater control measures that are not within the stream buffers.

All new trees will be native, and we're also committing to that additional public open space, a minimum of two acres in this district with the environmentally sensitive area.

So we're really truly revolutionary combination of environmental commitments that you haven't seen in many cases, all packaged with that employment center.

In addition to that, we're making a commitment to uh provide for the public greenway in several areas.

The planning commission struggled with this case, and a lot of that dealt with uh lack of certainty that they felt though around commitments that we've tied up and provided additional certainty.

And I'd like to address three key areas where that occurred.

To address concerns about the development of the seven-acre affordable parcel, there were some questions about how feasible that would be, whether gap financing was possible, and whether the land should be donated for free.

We've addressed each of those by making the commitment that the land would be donated to an affordable developer.

We've addressed that feasibility by talking to three LITEC developers who confirmed that a 4% project would likely work here, but that that donation of the land at $2.5 million would be important, and that if we could provide any additional gap funding, that could also make it more likely that they'd be able to step forward.

And so that led us to add not only the donation of the land, but the $1 million donation for a total value of $3.5 million.

To address concerns about the Stewart property, we increased our buffer 10 from 10 feet to 75 feet.

This will be an undisturbed buffer.

That's equivalent to 5.2 acres of buffer area to protect uh that homeowner in the center of the project.

And then to address environmental concerns, preserve rural Durham, we commend them for their activity in raising these uh comments to us at the planning commission because we're able to address them between planning commission and council and increase the storm stream buffers in the PDR district from 50 to 100 feet, increase our stormwater treatment in that district from 25 year storm to 100-year storm, and then in the IL district from 25-year storm to a 50-year storm, in addition, adding those two acres of public open space I talked about.

In addition to all of that, we're providing some significant transportation commitments and continuity in an area that's experiencing traffic concerns and would otherwise not have funding but for taxpayers or other public funding in this area.

We're constructing the Northern Durham Parkway to connect the portion being constructed by the towns on Leesville, the ACC Boulevard extension, including 10 foot shared paths, the Leesville Road Alignment, including 10 foot shared paths, installing the traffic signal for Leesville Road and the future Northern Durham Parkway, dedicating right-of-way for all of those extensions I just mentioned, plus the US 70 project to accommodate the future NC DOT configuration, whatever form that might take, in order to accommodate all of the right-of-way that would be needed there.

In addition to that, based on our work with some of the neighbors, we are offering to install an overhead street name sign for Leesville Road at the intersection of 70.

And tonight we're also offering a proffer at the table that's on your screen that will provide a one-time contribution of the for $350,000 for a fire and emergency services grant project.

And we thank uh both the manager and the staff for helping us work through that language to respond to concerns that were in fact raised tonight on the other case.

All of that amounts to a regional employment center generating 1,800 construction jobs, 2,500 permanent local position supported and infrastructure, not only the roads that I just talked about, but the extension of utilities that are valued at $39.5 million of privately funded public infrastructure without touching a taxpayer dollar.

In addition, at the time that the roads are and and the projects are delivered, we estimate that we'd be generating $15 million per year on uh property tax uh stabilization.

That means that not only are we using private money to fund these public infrastructure, but we're creating a stream that the city can then dip into and use that income to provide services around town, other projects that are in a piecemeal fashion, for example, and can't afford uh to supplement them or parkland, we're able to give you that uh property tax generation to to improve those areas, all of that lasting investment in Durham without taxpayer money.

In addition to that investment, we looked at the housing supply and the deficit that the 2025 housing and development summit noted that statewide they estimate about three quarters of a million units are behind in terms of supply.

Now, we're not talking about affordable, we're just talking about supply, just the amount of units that people need that don't exist.

And in Durham, that number is 33,000.

And our 1,750 will put a major uh dent in that deficit.

Um, for all of these reasons, we're consistent with 25 of the 28 applicable policies in the comprehensive plan, leaving this council a great choice to move forward with this rezoning, the private 39 and a half million dollars and two miles of roads provided without taxpayer funding on an accelerated timetable that doesn't depend on DOT, it doesn't depend on a taxpayer bond.

It's there, it's done on time with our project, in addition to that $15 million in annual property tax revenue.

And or to let this project go by, to let it develop in a piecemeal fashion to be funded by the state or funded by the taxpayers on whatever schedule the state decides to improve uh highway 70 without that benefit of the increase in property tax.

The choice with respect to housing to move forward with this rezoning case, providing 1,750 new homes, relieving pressure on the existing housing supply, accepting the $2.5 million of free land to provide for 175 affordable units, and the million dollars to the donating to the housing fund to accept that gap financing, or to let this project move forward to let this uh project pass by and accept by right.

By right, there's uh 1,300 uh units that could be built on this land today, no affordables required, no gap financing would be provided, no affordability would otherwise be mandated by the UDO.

And so, with respect to the environment and jobs, we think the choice is clear.

To move forward with this rezoning case presents a precedent-setting collection of commitments that you haven't seen before that you can use as a bar to test other cases against and really answer the call that the community has raised and this council has raised in terms of environmental commitments.

We think the choice is clear, and we hope you move forward with the zoning case tonight, and we're happy to answer any questions.

Well, thank you.

Thank you.

Um I know I had speakers online.

Can you check to see if uh Monique Fletcher and Vicky King are still alive?

Vicky Keen, yes, they're fine.

All right.

Uh do you have any do you want cleanings before do you want to just do one?

They're both opponents.

Yeah, these are.

All right, Monique Fletcher, can you hear me?

I can hear you.

I can hear you.

Welcome.

You have three minutes.

Okay, thank you.

Um, my name is Monique Fletcher, and my husband, Brian Fletcher, and I live in the vicinity being affected by the project that will affect our beautiful natural neighborhood.

I'm totally against these changes for many reasons, but I will sum up here for you tonight.

My number one concern as a lifetime cardiac patient who has already had a heart attack wants confirmation that an ambulance can and will be able to make pick pick me up and get me to a hospital.

This really sounds unlike the proposed quote 21,000 plus vehicles per day, end of quote, increase.

While we're at it, my husband just had the fifth mailbox destroyed in a hit and run last week in the last 17 years of living here.

Do you think that with the 21,000 plus vehicles per day increased will slow the speeding in this area down?

In addition, it is mentioned that quote masquerading blasting of over 308 plus acres, end of quote, and the quote removal of all mature trees except those within 30 feet of stream, end of quote.

So with all of these changes, changes to our environment that we have brought into, moved into and settled into a quiet natural environment to now be destroyed by construction with the overheated sidewalk jungle with tomato soup runoffs, lack of natural resources and animals and noise pollution, uh galore.

This is not the environment we signed up for or moved into.

Once more, your paperwork also says that quote, no recourse of homes or businesses are damaged by blasting, end of quote.

And your document also goes on, but these are my highlights.

How about you leave our land alone, pay for the damages already done to our community, and if you even um consider following through on any of your proposals, pay for the damages to our homes and property in addition?

How about paying for our upheaval that these changes will make on our community?

Would you like this done in your own home?

Thank you about your think about your mother's homes.

I'm done.

Thank you, Miss Fletcher.

Next, I have Vicky King.

Yes, I'm here.

Welcome.

You have three minutes.

Thank you.

My name is Vicki King.

I live on Ardsley Drive in Durham.

While that was some presentation by that young lady, I would like to go ahead and say how can the city continue to allow mass grading and building without interventions for infrastructure.

Our environment is hurting.

Our quality of life is diminished.

Please do not allow this development to continue without more improvements to our streets, our schools, our public services, and the environment.

That's all I have to say tonight.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next, I will move to our in-person speakers.

First up, I have Donna Stanback, Pam Williams, Pam Andrews.

And then I have Tammy Sawaya, Wanda Allen, Gary McLean.

And Lance Pickup.

You can cue as you feel needed, and then I'll call the others.

And that's the order that I have, but if you guys have your coordinated speaking presentation, go ahead and line up as such.

Just state your name so I can cross it off.

You ready?

Oh, I'm ready.

Welcome, Ms.

Wanda.

It's good to see you.

Hi, I'm Wanda Allen.

And my address is on file.

Okay, I want you guys to look at this photo on the slide.

Take a look at it.

You can see that the stream downstream from courtyard at Grove.

The water that is running down the stream is red.

And you can also see the 2023 erosion control measurements are not in place.

Look to the right, you can see a clean ditch.

You can see that it is a clean ditch.

So we are asking that gateway must make environmental commitments.

We as taxpayers cannot continue to be burdened with cleaning up the streams and the lake.

In fiscal year 24, the taxpayers were burdened with over 79 million dollars to clean up the lake.

We're asking them to reduce the pervious from 70% proposed to 50%.

We're also asking them to monitor the sampling of the water release from the temporary construction site, temporary construction ponds.

This has been done.

This is doing, they're doing it now in Virginia.

And it's also known by EPA as a best practice procedure.

Stormwater basins requirement, 100 years for permanent and for temporary basin in the PDR and IASO area.

The data is showing that the temporary ponds is where we're having major problems.

The stream buffers maintain a hundred-foot undisturbed natural buffer.

This is needed due to the white uh soil.

Construct the uh greenway.

Construct it if you really want to say you want to support a 15-minute walkway in the community.

Construct it and build it.

Provide 30% phase of the tree preservation.

Provide 30% of a phase and limit the amount you uh cutting edge to edge.

Protect the species, complete required survey of the federal protected species in Durham and in Wake County.

Housing diversity.

We know that 50% 50% of the market today is over 55.

Require, and that is the requirement that requires walk-in accommodation.

Policy 48 is not met.

And most importantly, is no variances or waivers in the tax commitment.

We're now this is becoming a standard way of doing practice.

Examples.

We have partial ale, off and leaves for road, and foul track.

They came back and asked for a variance.

And so that is also hurting our environment.

This slide right here basically is saying that we're not falling the plan.

Thank you.

Good evening, Durham City Council.

I'm Donna Steinback.

My address is on Powell, and I'm a lifelong resident of Southeast Durham.

The impervious surfaces restrict the natural infiltration of water into the soil and cause an increase the rain water runoff and velocity and the sediment runoff.

It also traps heat and reduces evaporation and transpiration.

This project of 310 acres needs less impervious services.

Reducing the surfaces from 70% 215 acres of impervious surface to 50% would be 154 is needed to reduce stormwater runoff, the flooding of properties and water streams, rivers, lakes, and nearby developments, the turbidity in the creeks and scoopable sediment and soil in our lakes and waterways and the nutrients.

It increases the quality problems, the heat island effects, increased temperatures, increased energy use, worsened air pollution, less plant sustainability.

Contrast impervious surfaces absorb these significant amounts of the rainfall in forested watersheds and in grasses.

It enhances infiltration and groundwater storage.

When you increase from 50% impervious to about 70%, then the runoff is nearly doubled.

And infiltration is reduced by 50%.

Mass grading and blasting is causing sediment pollution, like the scoopable sediment, the turbidity and chemical in the runoff.

Our most environmentally sensitive areas are these 24 streams, four perennials, 12 intermittent, and eight ethereal.

And they are all flowing into an already impaired stream.

There are six ponds, wetlands, and femur flood zones.

And look at the impact or think about it to our wildlife habitat.

I've ridden by that area and saw deer back behind that area many times in a farm that was next door.

And this is, you know, they're just losing all their space.

The birds do not have a place to um habitate.

These new sediment controls are not working adequately to reduce the impacts, and we request the sampling up of dewater effluence or discharge water, like Virginia has and like the EPA best practice.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next.

All right, Timmy Sueya, um, Baptist Road.

Um I want to talk through what we can what we can do to make this even better.

This is what we need.

Um we know that there's been proposed hundred foot stream buffers.

That's fine, but we want them undisturbed.

What do we mean?

Leave the trees as it is.

Don't clear it, don't put a wall there.

If the opacity is not what you need, add to the trees.

We just want the land and the buffers like it is now.

That's what we mean.

Blasting.

We would like to have a commitment of no blasting.

There's been two recent blasting instances this summer.

One is where there was no permit.

The second one was in a Solana site that was applying for their blasting permit again, and it was felt about a mile and a half away in the ground, and the DB meter didn't even show anything.

Triassic Basin soil is different.

And so in this area, there could be 180 homes within a thousand feet.

So they could be impacted by blasting.

Uh I heard that the Haiti proffered, there was some money proffered for a church.

Why can't we do a fund for blasting?

Nobody has been remediated for their um for their damages.

Let's think innovative here.

I want to uh impact uh emphasize that we need the temporary storm water, not just the permanent.

What we're seeing here in Southeast Durham, off the tomato soup is because of the development.

We're not but even 30 to 40 percent built out.

It's the temporary uh storms that have uh basins that have been uh contributing to the tomato soup.

Um I want to point out here to the left of the the stream there that is within a thousand foot of um uh development, a 24-acre development, and it was taken this this summer.

So there's the example of we need the temporary streams buffers and we need the affluence checked from the from the um streams.

Um the North Carolina Wildlife Commission has said that there is um that there is some wildlife here, but yet our planning department has not acknowledged this.

The state is using a triangle connected collaboration map, which shows there's a wildlife corta, and this is by Brooke Massey, who works at the North Carolina level.

We should be as good as the state as the state level.

What we're asking for is to uh leave this area undisturbed, have it where the habitat has a continuous because as um Brooke quotes here, the habit this there's few remaining large habitat patches in this vicinity.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next.

Good afternoon.

Um my name is Pam Williams.

Um I want to talk about the Bar Creek Trail.

Uh we have asked, and uh several other developments recently have uh agreed to building the uh greenway trail as proposed in the master plan, Howard's Place, and then 2613 Carpenter Road, both of them agreed to build in the Greenway Trail.

Connecting this greenway trail uh to all the way over to ACC Boulevard to the east, uh, should be built out now, not in the future, not in 20 years.

There's uh 1,750 dwellings, quite about 4,000 people that could use this trail without having to cross over roads and and uh crosswalks, and it'll be safer and also via community investment.

A 15-minute access to the Rire Creek Commons, this would provide access to Briar Creek Commons, which is right down there on the right hand corner.

It would also, if they built out this greenway trail, it would be shaded and would be great for walking and biking since the trees right along the property line would be mature trees.

Also, if we can build this trail now, there'll be no additional costs and impacts in the future to streams, trees, sediments, and disturbance.

And when I say build the entire trail, I mean build from Leesville Road all the way down to ACC Boulevard.

Why can't we build this now?

I think I'm not even going to touch the impact study because there was an impact study done here on all the developments.

The thing is, I want everyone to note US 70 has 40 per NCDOT, 2023 count, traffic count, which was the last traffic count.

This was 41,000 vehicles per day at the county line.

Okay.

We're going to be adding 21,000 or over 21,000 to this exact same area by the time this is built out in 2030 or 2032.

There is not a DOT project planned here until 2030.

It is on the LED construction for 2030, and that means it will start in 2030 with preliminary design right away, and then build the interchange or anything else on it.

But it has been moved very recently from 2020 from 2028 to 2030.

Again, just this picture just shows the uh developments out in this area.

It's a lot of developments that we don't see the road, the impact to the roads at this time.

So I like to just bring that to your attention.

And the increase could be, you know, 62,000.

Again, we have no plans for U.S.

70, especially in Durham County.

Wake County has a plan for U 5518.

Durham County does not have a preliminary plan.

That was stopped by the MPO in 2020.

Thank you.

Good evening.

My name is Gary McLean.

You have my address on phone.

Good evening, Mayor, Mayor Pro Tim, and Councilmembers.

My issue tonight is just a new developments average annual daily traffic, the AADT in Durham's Lick Creek and Briar Creek watershed since 2023.

Twenty-nine of the 34 plus sites are under construction or have been built out since 2023.

Only five sites in red numbers have not begun.

The only future roadway improvement that is funded is NCDOT STIP U 5518 on US 70 from Wake County line to I-540 is to be let in 2030.

This has recently changed from 2028.

Proposed Durham Gateway, 308 plus acres will add over 21,000 AADT vehicles to the already approved 79,484 AADT in Southeast Durham, Lit Creek, and Briar Creek watershed areas shown in red on the map.

And earlier tonight we were talking about that the roads were not maxed out yet, but in the near future, with all of these proposed uh developments, when they get built out, it will be definitely maxed out because you're talking about secondary roads and uh the only four-way four-lane highway is US 70.

So in this area, just uh traffic is really just as congested, and yes, we have to wait in line, and uh we have to wait for four or five signal, you know, light signals and everything, and it is an inconvenience, but it's reality.

And on Highway 98 and Olive Branch Road and Basville Road, all Patterson Road, all out in this area in southeastern Durham, it's just an issue.

So yeah, we have to wait.

We just have to be patient and wait.

And hopefully we can get to our destination safely.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next.

Good evening, Pamela Andrews.

In a fire response time is the enemy.

The average response time data shows times were increasing in 2024.

The latest audit addressed the need to meet the target time, which is six minutes and thirty seconds.

Next.

The fire emergency on July 8th, two miles from this proposed site, required 52 Durham firefighters along with Raleigh, Redwood, and Durham Highway.

The fire consumed all three floors, displacing two families.

Station 17 and 8 were the first ones to respond with one ladder truck, one, which cannot handle these tall town homes, schools, and apartments.

Residents and firefighters' lives are at risk when we do not have adequate equipment and fire staff.

Next.

The responding two stations in our area are, Timmy, we told it up.

Three.

Station 17, three firefighters on a ladder truck, three firefighters on the engine truck, a total of nine firefighters had to battle that blaze for the first five minutes of that fire.

Eventually, 52 firefighters were sent and multiple ladder trucks.

Next.

There are five stations around this city with ladder trucks, not station eight.

This is a fire schedule from August the 7th of 2025.

Look carefully at this fire assignment sheet.

Almost every station has three firefighters, not the four recommended in the fire code.

Next.

The fire station was promised to us beginning in November 2023.

The comprehensive plan 122 identified Southeast Durham as a site needing new fire services.

Yet we still build.

The prof for $350,000 is nice, but not close to building a new station.

Station 19, currently being built, is $19 million just for the station.

One million for a fire truck, two million for a ladder truck, the total budget, including staff, $30 million.

Next.

A call came in to this bottom picture right here, which happens to be adjacent to my home.

5 52 a.m.

last week.

When I heard the helicopters, it woke me up because they were circling my home over and over, and I knew something was tragic.

I did not know that a historic family home that was distant relatives of my husband burnt to the ground in 30 minutes.

Don't let this be you, folks.

Don't let it be.

Full staff is 122.

That shift was 17 short.

Durham is in a crisis.

Build adequate infrastructure before allowing more dwellings.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next.

Good evening.

My name is Lance Pickup.

I'm a resident of Carolina Arbors.

I think the people before me have expressed similar concerns that I have, mainly surrounding the infrastructure and especially the roadways around US 70 and the roads that intersect that.

I've lived in Carolina Arbors for about eight years, and I've seen the pace at which the traffic is increasing at that intersection.

And you notice it.

I took uh Mayor Pro Tem's uh comments to heart.

You know, it's not just a a rush hour issue, though.

It is even on Saturday afternoons, it it becomes very significant.

Um I would caution the or request that the council uh consider putting a pause on this until the entities responsible uh to build out these projects that were mentioned actually get started because uh I uh this it's just been a delay after delay, and uh I'm not sure why it hasn't moved forward yet, but we are past the point.

Um, and that's without all the projects that are going on to the north of US 70.

Um that's about all I have.

Thank you for the opportunity to be heard this evening.

Thank you.

Excellent.

Good evening.

Uh, my name is Astrid Cookdale, and my address is on file.

Um, I have a couple of concerns specifically about the amount of water on the site.

Um there are two proposed roads planned through uh the development and they go through uh the waters.

One is the intermittent stream in the top right corner.

It's Little Briar Creek.

Um, and then there's the pond and wetland in the lower middle of the site uh to build in the waters of the state.

The developer will need to apply for a 401 permit with NCDEQ.

And DEQ specifically states that before applying for this permit, the developer should first take certain actions to avoid and minimize adverse effects in eight specified areas relating to material to be discharged, location and animal and plant impacts.

Um I would like to see evidence of these steps taken by the developer to show that they are planning to avoid and minimize impacts per NCDEQ advisement, and then rationale from the developer explaining why this placement of roads is the least impactful on the waters on the site.

Further regarding the intermittent stream in the top right corner, it is Little Briar Creek.

It drains into the new watershed, which already has special rules due to nutrient runoff.

It is uh Little Briar Creek is also on the 303D list of federally impaired waters due to PCB levels.

PCBs are a participant particularly persistent contaminant, resistant to breakdown and disturbing contaminated soil, such as in the case of this development, planning to put a road right through uh this water, this creek, um, leads to airborne contamination that can be breathed in as well as absorbed by animals who drink the water and also by crops grown by contaminated water and incontaminated soil.

Due to their specific persistence in the environment and resistance to ecological breakdown, they quickly bioaccumulate and magnify impacts.

So even relatively small doses compound quickly up the food chain to disproportionately affect animals at the top of the food chain, including humans, and lead to many health issues from cancer to neurological damage, reproductive and development issues, and liver damage.

Building in these contaminated soils can release PCBs into the waterways and kind of exacerbate the existing PCBs already there.

I would want to see evidence that the developers follow the directions of NCDEQ and the comprehensive plan and see a design that accommodates the unique circumstances of this area regard regarding the avoidance of impacts on waters of the state in an era where federal agencies such as the EPA are being dismantled or otherwise obstructed from performing their regulatory roles.

Thank you.

Next evening.

So um I guess some of the project that you guys are gonna be working is right behind my property so there in Lisbia Road.

Uh already in Lisbio Road, you know, there's a lot of farming, you know, just people that got alpacas, horses, and things like that, where the project is gonna go there.

So one of the things, you know, kind of asking is you know, some buffer.

Because uh, you know, like I said, this horses, animals around the area and all that.

And the other thing was gonna be the impact on floating.

Because right now, you know, we don't we don't live in a floating zone.

So is there gonna be some floating cost because the new development?

And then uh at the same time, you know, it's gonna be the water reserve.

I mean, what will happen someday we're gonna have like a big big drought?

I mean, it might happen Sunday.

I mean, I would be able to give everybody, you know, some water in the community.

And um the other thing is gonna be, you know, taxes, you know, uh taxes they're pretty high right now, even though you we are living in the county.

So is this gonna be raising our taxes?

Because uh, you know, we decided to live in the county because a lot uh it's a lot safer than the city.

And we like having animals, chicken, goats and all that.

Um, there's a lot of traffic over there, uh space, especially you know, people that ride bikes and all that.

And I just kind of came out with an idea.

How about getting rid of the sidewalk, the concrete sidewalks, and start using asphalt so the people can ride the bikes and also at the same time, you know, people can walk over there on the you know on the asphalt.

You know, the lifetime for a concrete uh sidewalk is about 30, 40 years, but the lifetime for the asphalt is about 20 years.

But that kind of give a little more space and uh, you know, and also the traffic, oh, there is congested, including on the weekends on highway 70 a weekend.

You can go a little from Lisbon Road to Miami Boulevard, is it look like you're driving kind of like uh in a weekly, you know, Monday through Friday, you know, traffic.

And uh the other thing too, you know, you guys spoke about donating some line and giving some money and things like that.

So apparently, you know, everybody is getting an HOA, you know, pool and all that.

I just thought about that.

About you know, maybe the land that you guys are donating can be kind of like a community to the people that we live uh live around there to some kind of park, people that can take the kids, the grand kids and all that, maybe make that donation to the community.

And then uh utilize the money for some kind of apprenticeship program that can be on the land that could be donated because we need some apprenticeship, and there's some kids that we can bring in and teaching some things because there's a lot of people that might be retired, but they can go over there and teach some skill to the younger people to the future.

And um, and okay.

We're gonna stop, you know, construction and things like that.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next up, I have David Morgan, uh Andy Lowe, Herman Sperling, and Kim Crossman.

Welcome.

You have three minutes.

Thank you, Ms.

Mayor, and thank you, everyone.

I'm actually a proponent of the development.

I think this should have been the first development in Southeast Durham as we were filling in because there is it's a great opportunity for infill opportunity.

To me, the Durham Gateway represents a strategic infill opportunity along U.S.

70.

And again, as you approve this particular opportunity, there's a lot of work that you all have to should be doing as well to partner.

It is fully consistent with the 2023 comprehensive plan in the Southeast Durham focus area.

It offers a balanced mix of housing and commercial use in line with the city's long-term vision for sustainable growth.

However, to make affordably affordability real, this project needs stronger public transfer transit connections.

We have a Briar Creek, Go Durham transit opportunity by routing this through this particular area, gives you connectivity for people that are using needing affordable housing.

So therefore, I ask you to charge the Go Triangle Transit Plan and the Go Triangle Regional Network to start looking at this area and provide transit, especially if we're talking about affordability.

The donut hole, we've talked about the donut hill in the prior uh things, also provides a natural opportunity to provide a public park with all the m infrastructure and funding coming into this with this development.

My suggestion, and it's my own opinion, is to actually acquire the Stewart land and make it a public park.

Because I do think that that could actually add value to the area around there and also provide recreational needs in the area as well.

So again, I'm charging you all to make some decisions and actually provide the partnership.

And it would address service gaps in the noted in the public and recreation master plan.

On infrastructure, the development is running out of time, is pursuing an innovative stormwater solution, which they've talked about.

We can talk about that.

I think it's great.

We did that at the airport.

Also, this aligns with it, and also at the same time, the transportation is part of the 2050 MPO plan, and I do feel like we do need to get that plan in place just to know what's going to happen along US 70.

Anyway, do Durham Gateway is more than a rezoning.

It's a chance for private public partnership that brings affordability, parks, transit, and modern infrastructure together to strengthen uh Southeast Durham.

Thank you for your leadership, and I hope that you can take some of the suggestions both from proponents and opponents as well.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next.

Hello, Mayor Williams, Mayor Pro Tem and City Council.

My name is Andy Lowe, and I'm here today to speak in favor of the proposed rezoning and annexation at Durham Gateway at Briar Creek.

So as the applicant noted and some others have noted, this parcel is just down the street from the main part of Briar Creek.

I think the applicant showed a pretty good map of that.

Simply put, this lot is not in a rural area anymore.

It is already adjacent to a large suburban area that has been established in both Durham and Wake Counties.

I would say much more so on the Wake County side, but I'll get to that.

And in recognition of the estimates that Durham Counties is estimated to add 150,000 residents by 2045, up from about 360,000 now, and in recognition that Briar Creek already contains developments of varying sizes just down the street, multi-use, there's a dick sporting goods, et cetera.

I see no reason to die of this project while Wake County builds and builds just over the county line.

Why should Durham not have the amenities, businesses, amount of homes that seem to be built again, just a couple minutes down the street?

A no here denies Durham residents.

I'm sorry.

Durham City additional property tax revenue and most importantly reduces uh know here reduces the amount of housing and business space available for Durham residents now and well into the future.

This area will be developed.

We can choose to have a large, well-executed multi-use project that has opportunities to connect to transit, future BRT, existing buses, et cetera, or we can drag our feet and leave Durham with fewer homes, businesses, and property tax revenue than we otherwise would get.

Small piece-by-piece developments are much less likely to feature the multiple uses, the infrastructure proper uh and the infrastructure profers on this project.

Durham should be proud that such a landmark projects are coming here.

It is a testament to the vitality of Durham's economy and the future of Durham as a city of progress and prosperity.

This is a major expansion of what is available already in Briar Creek.

Only this time it is on the Durham side of the county line.

Council, please vote yes.

Thank you.

Next.

I am not going to distinguish anyone, but just thank all of you for this time and opportunity.

My name is Herman Sperling of Bloomsbury Manor.

I am the founder of the Liesel Road Coalition and president of the Politics and Culture Club of Carolina Arbors.

But tonight I am speaking as a Durham resident who has lived here for nine years.

Well, I have continued to express long-standing concerns about the need for infrastructure to support the growth in our area, including impact to our water supply, law enforcement, fire, EMS, public transportation, natural habitat, and roads.

I am here tonight to support this development because of the significant cooperation we have enjoyed with this developer.

The developer met with us on numerous occasions, both virtually and in person, including a town hall with the coalition that provided an opportunity for an outreach to about 5,000 people we reach in the coalition, and another with Carolina Arbor's residents specifically, allowing them to ask their questions and get answers directly that included stormwater traffic, the future road network, construction management, and more.

The developer not only listened, but acted on the concerns we raised and made changes in their plans.

This included adding publicly accessible open space, using green stormwater infrastructure, increasing their buffers, and adding the hundred-year storm provision.

They have even committed to putting up an appropriate street sign on Highway 70 and the Liesville and Liesel Road that has been approved by NCDOT and the county.

And we're very excited to hear the additional offering of a million dollars towards affordable housing, that they were able that in addition to that, they were able to work with the city to find a mechanism to contribute $350,000 for fire and EMS in that local area.

We have also they have also made good faith commitments to us to provide a hotline that they will use to allow us to report concerns about blasting directly to them so they can operate as advocates for those of us houses who are damaged.

And there will be an accessible on-site full-time superintendent for the project to answer questions that will necessarily arise as the project develops.

But because of their unprecedented cooperation with local community and organizations, I fully support this plan.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Next.

Good evening, and thank you for your chance to let us speak.

My name is Kim Crossman.

I also live in Calvin Arbrex, which as you know is immediately adjacent to this property.

But we all know that you guys have proved way too many developments in Southeast Durham with apparently very little regard for the infrastructure in the area.

This is especially true with the lack of funding for the EMS at Fire Station 17, and it's appalling to the Council that the Council and your rep to the Durham Chapel Hill Carey MPO is standing in the way of the NCDOT plans to upgrade Highway 70.

I very recently used to ride a bicycle over 100 miles a week.

Can't do that anymore, unfortunately.

But even then, I wouldn't consider riding a bike to a DAP PAC performance or Duke Hospital.

I don't think anyone else would either.

Did anyone here tonight ride a bicycle to tonight?

I doubt it.

Traffic on 70 is already a nightmare and is only going to get much worse as developments fill up, as many people have said before.

This upgrade is desperately needed.

That said, while I would normally oppose further developments, I'm actually in favor of the beacon properties.

This is the best use of this land that we could hope for, and we I have been impressed with how they have listened to our concerns and agreed to many suggestions and others tonight that I have heard early in the previous uh development.

People were complaining about lack of commercial work.

These guys are offering to put commercial restaurants and other activities in this area, which I would find very attractive.

They have offered significant infrastructure proffers and other concessions that many other developers have not.

So I think this should be an example for all future developments, and I appreciate your attention.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Right.

Those are all the speakers that I have for this case.

So therefore, at this time, I will declare the public hearing closed and back before the council.

I'm sorry.

I will declare the public hearing back open and uh allow the developer to the applicant to respond.

Thank you.

I will try to make this brief, um, but I will try to hit on the main points that we heard.

Um there were many, and I'll just hit the highlights and happy to elaborate as needed.

Um, with respect to the requests to reduce the impervious percentage, this area is in a um is not in an overlay and therefore it could be 100 percent impervious.

So our 70 percent is already a concession.

And because of all the significant environmental commitments we are already making, as you have asked in other projects to increase, we're doing those here.

We're not able to further reduce the impervious.

Um, with respect to the requests that the um stream buffers be undisturbed, uh essentially the state rules require that.

If you're going to interfere with a stream buffer, you have to get special permission.

One of the speakers talked a little bit about that tonight.

And so those stream buffers in combination with the state rules and Durham rules means that they won't be disturbed unless there's specific circumstances where where that's allowed under those both of those rules.

So, in effect that they are.

Uh, the project boundary buffers are different because there is grading that's required, um, and those would not be able to be um undisturbed.

With respect to the trail, we have offered to uh commit to one of three options that we would determine at site plan.

We would either construct the trail, we'd provide uh an easement for a larger area of the trail to be to be constructed, um, or another arrangement whereby that the city could come in and complete the trail.

Um the location that was shown on the screen is is really at the top of um the top of the property, so it's not a situation where um the the greenway trail is in the middle of the property and it would connect everything.

It's on the edge according to Durham's plan.

And so we would be able to um make that connection.

Oops.

Just at the top of the screen area there in uh in this location right here.

The rest of Durham's plan shows the trail going actually on HOA property owned by Caroline Arbor, is not on our site.

And so we're doing the commitment that would be required according to Durham's own adopted plans.

Um with respect to blasting, Herman did a great job of uh discussing the commitment that we've made verbally.

We explored that with staff that cannot be a legal commitment made as an actual proffer, but it is a good faith commitment we're making to have a hotline available should blasting issues occur and to have someone on site to make sure that they're available should something occur.

Um with respect to the several requirements or requests that the infrastructure come first.

Um it's uh understandable that folks want roads to be built out and infrastructure to be in place before housing occurs.

But the only way for that to happen is for the city or the state to pay for that.

That's how infrastructure gets approved without a private developer being involved.

And so if we want to wait for that, I think the gentleman mentioned you're not sure why the project's been delayed.

Those projects get delayed because there is no demand for them, they're not scored appropriately on the step on the state transportation improvement plan, and they can't be made a priority with this council unless there is a significant demand in this area to accelerate those funds.

And so what we're doing is we're taking that burden off the city and state, and we're accelerating it ourselves.

We're paying for it with our project on an accelerated timeline and taking that burden off the taxpayers.

And so while I understand that there's a desire for the infrastructure or the roads without the housing, really the housing and the industrial that we're asking for here is how that infrastructure is being built.

Without this case, 1,300 homes could be provided in a piecemeal fashion, similar to the case that you all approved unanimously earlier tonight.

And that that size and that scale just doesn't have the same amount of girth to be able to pay for those things.

This project does.

And so the ability for us to move forward and to start with that industrial and start generating uh revenue allows us to pay for those roads as we go forward with each site plan.

The traffic will be evaluated each site plan, the infrastructure will be evaluated at each site plan.

So each of those site plans coming forward will have the appropriate amount of infrastructure paid for by us on a sooner timeline that DOT could ever provide in a way that completes the connections and reduces the congestion that these folks are experiencing today.

Um with respect to the fire, again, commend the city staff for working with us.

That 350,000 is a commitment that's the first of its kind.

Um we look forward to seeing how that's used to to satisfy some of the needs in this area.

And I think the comment was made that some of these needs um generate so close to a $30 million demand.

Well, you heard me say earlier that this project is going to generate $15 million per year at build-out, two years to pay for a new fire station.

So that the kind of investment we're talking about here is going to generate that type of income that's able to pay for those services that are needed that won't get better without this project.

Because the piecemeal fashion and the lack of a master plan won't have the amount of investment to pay for the things that these folks have asked for.

Um, with respect to DEQ, understand the comment there, that is an accurate statement of trying to prove you know that there's a a lesser, there's no lesser kind of in impact that's available.

All of that's done at site plan because it requires the grading to be completed and to make sure the roads are placed in a way that does the least harm.

But the roads are going to be placed in that location because that is where your comprehensive plan and your transportation plan says those roads should be placed.

And so we're going to do our best to minimize that um while also accommodating the state rules.

Um there was a comment about park donation or why that why that can't be a part of this case.

We actually did offer parkland to be accepted by the city.

Um that was not accepted by the city, and so we went to other measures to incorporate the open space consistent with the comprehensive plan and the sensitive areas and all the other environmental um commitments that I explained earlier tonight.

So we did explore that.

We weren't able to offer that, um, but we appreciate the staff considering that, and I'm happy to answer any questions.

Thank you.

At this time, I'll declare it a public hearing closed and but back before the council.

Colleagues.

Would you like me to start to the right tonight?

All right.

Councilmember Ruth, we're going to start with you tonight.

All right, Mr.

Mayor, thank you.

Um, you know, it's interesting.

We um we often talk about the details of these cases, and sort of from our own perspective, sort of say how we stand on it.

The hour is late.

There's a lot you could say about this case, a lot of questions.

I think what I want to actually want to call out Herman Sperling's comments about this is the model collaboration, right?

So I think you know, you hear at times from the council hey, the best way to get better developments is say no and it'll get better, right?

I think we, as again, as Mr.

Sperling said, we've got a great example here of a of an applicant that's come to us and has reached out to the community and has flexed incredibly much to address the demands from Preserve Royal Durham from Carolina Arbors.

I also got an email just late tonight.

I actually emailed um Tom Campbell with EAB, who did send an email who said he was wasn't sure this hearing would take place tonight.

I mentioned to him that that there were a number of commitments made since the planning commission hearing, and he responded and said, Oh my gosh, I think I would support this.

So I think what you've done is a model.

I think uh Ms.

Schwedler, you said this is kind of a precedent-setting series of commitments, and I think you're right about that.

Um I think this is a great model for how we can together build abundance and address all the challenges we have.

Um I think this is a great project, and I'll be supporting it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh Councilmember Cook, do you have any comments?

Mr.

Baker.

Sure.

As has been as has been stated by several several members of the community.

This area is part of Durham has been inundated with growth.

We've seen um enormous amounts of annexations.

You can just go to Google Maps, zoom into this area and take a look.

Durham since 2017 has annexed half the area of Manhattan into our city, into our city limits.

The vast majority of that has been completely car-dependent and car-oriented.

And it has not all been built.

In fact, much of it has not been built.

It's sort of a tsunami that we can expect coming our way.

Particularly in this area, as was stated, even by proponents of this case, much of that uh in this area has been purely residential.

And so I'm pleased to see a case that's actually proposing non-residential in this area.

Deeply and sorely needed.

Uh and not just non-residential, but also uh employment.

Since Carl got to go first, I uh I think I know where this is going, but uh my request, colleagues, is that we would send this case back to the Planning Commission.

And the reason that uh that I would request that is because this is 308 acres.

It's a small town.

It's the size of a town.

It's half a square mile.

It's five times the downtown loop.

It's 77 times the controversial 505 uh site here in downtown.

Send it back to the planning commission, work out some of the kinks and bring it back.

And let me discuss what what I think there.

The presentation uh provided to us this evening uh by the applicant, I I was I was impressed by.

But when you look at the application itself and the many excellent uh commitments, it still leaves the door open to uh sprawl to auto-centric uh development and sprawl, and I want to work some of those kinks out.

Um so on paper it leaves open the flexibility for smart growth development.

It also leaves open the door for giant parking lots, big box stores, cul-de-sac uh residential developments, uh and the things that we have we already have too much of and that we don't need that we don't need more of.

Um we need to grow, we need to grow smarter, we need to be smart about the weight that we that we grow.

Uh and to me, I need to see more in this application uh fiscally and environmentally, and the reason why I'm even asking this tonight to this council is that it is 308 acres.

We can send it back to the planning commission, work out the kinks, bring it back here, and move forward with the case.

That is my concern.

It leaves the door open to good stuff as well as things that we need to be concerned about and things that we uh should not be approving more of, especially in an area that has been so drastically and rapidly impacted and inundated.

Uh and I think that there are some we would want to set guardrails.

You're not allowed to negotiate to reduce your densities because we don't want those kinds of things.

But there are some very real improvements that I think that we need to see that we can't just negotiate here on the dais for a transformative project, a print transformative annexation and rezoning requests, not necessarily a project.

So that's that's my request, colleagues, is to send this case back to the planning commission, work out the kinks, and bring it back here.

And that is because of the large scale of this proposal.

Thank you.

Okay, I see you aim me, so I guess I'll go.

Um Yeah, I have I have a long list of questions that I I think that I would agree with Councilmember Baker.

We we just heard comments about the trust that we put in the Planning Commission in our last project.

And this was not recommended by the Planning Commission.

And it has changed a lot.

Um and as Councilmember Russ just said, there might be a change from the Environmental Affairs Board, but I think what you said is they might support it now.

Um we don't know.

And though just Tom Campbell, he didn't speak for the coal yet.

Right, exactly.

Um so for me when I'm looking at just the sheer mass of this project, I I want it to go in front of our commission again.

I want this updated project to learn from the commission.

Um I do think that a lot of their concerns were addressed, but certainly not all of their concerns were addressed.

Um and and some of their concerns are concerns that I share.

Um I think that if we have this body and we want to put faith in their decisions that we need to have the pro the full project go in front of them.

So I would support that um sending it back as well.

Yep, go ahead.

Thank you.

Um I appreciate everyone's comments.

I I've got the planning commission comments up.

The one thing that is spoken about the most is affordable housing.

That is the area that that there were the most questions about.

I'm not saying there weren't other questions.

And I I will say, and this is something I've said to the applicant, you know, this is a it is a test case in some ways.

The set aside of affordability with this extra dollar, this is is different than what we've seen.

I understand why planning commissioners, especially without the million dollar uh proffer had a lot of questions around it.

I don't know what else would they be looking at because it at least they didn't provide a lot.

I mean, they provided great commentary, um, but they are I think where I get struck is previous rezonings.

Well, it's piecemeal, there's not a plan, it's not big enough, it's not comprehensive enough.

Now we get a case, it's comprehensive enough, it's big enough, it's clear that there's master planning and a lot of intentionality, and but that's not right.

And I think that folks just need to be more transparent with what they want.

You have been elected to make a decision.

That decision is going to be hard sometimes.

You are not going to make everyone happy, you're gonna actually make most people mad at you most of the time.

It is honestly like being a parent uh and having teenagers who are just mad at you all the time because you have to listen to 300,000 people, and you're just never going to make 300,000 people happy.

There's no possible way.

So at some point, you just have to rely on the information provided by your staff, the comprehensive plan that did go out into engagement.

We funded the comprehensive plan in 2019.

It was a vast undertaking.

This project lines up with what the comprehensive plan envisioned.

Does that mean that residents are still going to be happy with it?

Absolutely not.

But that's democracy and that's governance.

And at some point, we just have to make hard decisions, and sometimes we're gonna fail, and we might fail on the affordable housing piece of this.

This is this is tricky.

I will say that having a set aside and a million dollars and being able to get a four percent, you can't get a nine percent in here.

That that's um, I don't remember which commissioner, the the census track isn't gonna let you do it.

You there's a lot of things that folk that are behind the scenes when this stuff comes to us, and there's lots of things that applicants have to go and figure out.

The fact that they have already had conversations with affordable housing providers.

A 4% is gettable.

We passed one, there was, I think, two at the previous uh planning commission meeting.

Both of those were 4%.

That is not relying on city dollars.

It's not the city that's gonna have to provide that gap subsidy, which is huge.

It means that the market rate developer is going to do that work.

So that's a huge win.

It is a massive piece of land.

I understand the concern there, but the opposite is then true.

It just becomes this piecemeal, smaller residential that we've also heard from residents, they don't want.

And we've also heard from residents, well, they want commercial.

Well, you're getting commercial and you're getting jobs.

And my understanding is that this is slightly different than other um developments that this this team has brought forward because they've learned some lessons on ensuring that the commercial is there with the IL, which is also there with the housing, so that when folks are there, they can actually do the goal of 15 minutes city, which is I work here, I live here, I can run errands here.

Is it gonna solve on the overcrowding of schools?

No, because that also that involves a different set of government officials who are elected differently than we are.

And so that is our on us to do a better job collaborating with them.

But I am supportive of it, and I also just get flummixed because I've been doing this since 2018, and the cases get better, and we do more, and we consistently hear in the spaces how Durham is innovating in a state that doesn't allow us to require half of the stuff that folks ask us to.

I understand you want it, that doesn't mean I have the power to give it to you.

And it often means I'm gonna get my hands slapped and something taken away from me or us to Council Member Baker's point.

We've had massive zoning taken away from us in the lab.

Massive power that is different than when I first got on here in 2018.

I had more power than I than I do now in 2018 to now.

It's specifically on zoning.

So this space that has historically been one of the only spaces that we had a decent amount of authority on has been taken from us.

And so that is a sandbox that we're playing in.

And that is reality.

That is not ideology, that is not I wish it was this way.

We're made we are called to make decisions on the facts on the ground and the facts in front of us.

And we have to consistently move to a world that we want that is better, but you don't get there by constantly turning everything down in front of you now.

You just don't.

You get there by working with other people collaboratively, like this applicant has done, which no offense to Carolina Arbors, I'm kind of floored that y'all are here and positive.

I'm just being real honest, right?

Like that just tells you the level of collaboration that happened.

And so I am, yes, and I think that this is a path forward on many fronts.

How do applicants work collaboratively with neighbors?

What is an interesting and innovative approach to affordability that is different, that we're gonna have to pay very careful attention to?

And it really aligns well with our comprehensive plan, which was very much put out in community for three plus years to get that engagement.

And again, we're not gonna make everyone happy.

And so at the end of the day, we have to make decisions that move us as close as we can to the things that we said in our comprehensive plan, and I'm done.

Thank you.

Thank you.

May I approach uh Councilman Marisco.

I'll just say briefly on the transit question.

Because so this is, I think really important.

So this is not right now, it's like half a mile from a transit stop.

So it's not transit friendly right now, right?

But Councilmember McCalvier and I are on the TPO.

We were talking about this last week at our meeting, right?

So the preferred scenario that TPO is looking at long term, and I think you referenced in your documents the DOT sort of like project there, right?

So DOT has said in the past they want this to be a freeway.

And our TPO has said that, hey, we think there's a better way to do that.

And so right now the plan calls for either, I think calls for boulevarding and maybe the sort of like the um the BRT on the side, right?

So this is this corridor is slated for BRT, right?

And that will and having the density of this development will make BRT that much more that much more attractive in this.

So I think so we're not there.

I think as again, as Ms.

Schweller said, part of this is like you're making a big public or big private investment.

Part of it is on us as a as a community, as a council as the is this reason to make those bigger investments in things like BRT to connect the community, which that is our plan.

So if we stick to that, your project will be transit friendly when that happens.

So that's coming, but it's on us to make sure we do that.

So just want to note that.

Thank you.

Mayor Burton.

Thank you, Your Honor.

And I thank my colleagues for a really great discussion.

I think this discussion has really kind of crystallized a lot of the fault lines in our what's going on in our public square right now when it comes um to development.

Um 38 acres is a lot, I think.

Um because I, you know, uh I don't know what the number is or what the threshold is that uh constitutes or delineates what's not a lot.

Is it a hundred?

Is it 200?

Is it is it 300?

And each council member has to decide that uh for themselves, what what that threshold is that that whoa we should pause.

Um because I I think there's some important context.

Um there are five boroughs in New York City.

Manhattan is not the entire city, it's a borough.

Manhattan is the smallest borough of New York City.

So it sounds very dramatic to talk about over a number of years, you know, the the size of Manhattan, but it's New York's smallest borough, and we are North Carolina's third largest city.

So we need to put some things in context.

Um I think certain phrases have the danger of becoming kind of catchphrases, almost uh a Rorschach test.

You see what you want to see in it.

If you if you are concerned about car-centric sprawl and you're not a member of the council, and you never ride the bus, never walk anywhere, never ride your bike, use a skateboard or whatever, or a scooter, then you're living a car-centric lifestyle.

If you are concerned about car-centric sprawl and you never ride the bus, uh if you're concerned about car-centric sprawl but still vote against projects within the urban growth boundary, it it starts to really kind of erode what that term actually means.

And it's become kind of like a catchphrase.

Um we can't send buses where there are no people to ride them.

It would be irresponsible to have empty bus lines.

So it's density that drives transportation.

So I think it's really important that that some of these phrases are they're politically useful and they they kind of get folk going, but when you dig down and unpack them, um, what does it really mean?

I remember a pesky, a little development, uh, I think it was around 2013 that started getting built.

What was the name of it?

Carolina Arbors.

Um the exact same arguments were said about our neighbors and their friends, and I live down the road from they're my neighbors and friends.

Um if you've moved here within the last eight to ten years, fifteen years, guess what?

You were once the problem, and they said the same things about you.

But you know what?

You're welcome.

And you are welcome.

I'm glad you're here.

Um I'm sorry, I mean that, but but the same things were said about you.

So, you know, I I think it it's fair, I think, for all of us in the city to kind of kind of take a step back and really ask ourselves did the problem start two weeks after my closing date?

Like that the cutoff line is after I, you know, I got my furniture picked out.

Then that's when the problem started.

But but we've we've been having this discussion for for a lot of years, and and I'm glad y'all uh are here.

Um I want to ask the development, ask the developer uh the the applicant the question because this really is in many ways a kind of a precedent-setting development and potentially paradigm shifting.

But I recognize that part of the reason is because y'all got bank.

Y'all you're you're you're you're you're very well-heeled developer.

Um, and are in a position to financially do these things.

Almost 40 million dollars in in infrastructure and road, that's almost unheard of.

I don't know of any case that with those numbers of approach that a million dollars to the affordable housing fund, all great things.

But I do want to ask about this blasting.

And because you you of your large S and because of your ability to do so many things, and the case with our friends at St.

Mark was alluded to earlier in the Hayti corridor, and I was glad to hear about the hotline about blasting.

Our friends from Preserve Rural Durham, and I had some conversations with them before and committed from this dais to lean in on this blasting issue.

I will in the interest of full transparency and digging down on it.

I've I've I've gotten a lot of anecdotal stories about blasting, and I've I've yet to have anybody actually come forward with the documentation.

I'm sure it exists.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but when I've drilled down, I've asked staff, I've asked the manager even before he was manager uh to drill down on this.

Um but since you are in this position and since this is paradigm shifting and and this is an opportunity to send, I think a message to the rest of the development community.

In addition to the hotline, is there any possibility of putting some dollars a commitment to our friends and neighbors if they do have issues that are verifiably direct or directly relatable to this this project in terms of structure?

I mean, because listen, proving that the the damage came from a project, even though folk might know it has, proving that can be a runaround.

Folk get a runaround sometime, particularly if you don't have a lot of money, and we know corporations can use their their significant resources to kind of stretch things out.

But I think this, y'all have demonstrated your willingness to work with this community to use your significant resources to do some really good things.

So I just want to ask, is there a possibility, and maybe you have already discussed this with residents, but in addition to the hotline, some type of of uh have we considered a financial commitment, does a pool set aside in case any of our neighbors do experience blasting that is verifiably or causally linked uh to this project?

Yeah, thanks for the question.

I'm gonna answer it because I was the attorney on on the Hey Tie project that was uh mentioned, and we did make that proffer um to the community.

It wasn't accepted by the community.

And um I'm I want to make sure I'm clear, it was not a proffer in the case.

That case had a general zoning and a list of restrictive covenants because in our discussions with both the city attorney and the staff, there were certain things that we were offering the community that were not legal zoning conditions.

And those legal zoning conditions are typically limited to the impacts of a project on the surrounding area that are really governed by health safety and welfare under your zoning code and what limits the zoning code has.

So in this case, offering the proffer of committing to um to roads that are on your adopted plans are well within the bounds of legal proffers.

Um specific set-asides or money for undis undetermined amount of damages with undetermined amount of people would provide, I don't know that that would be possible to add legally, but it would also provide a nightmare for your planning staff to try to enforce.

And so I don't think that that's possible here from as a legal proffer.

I think it's something that we can continue to talk about with the neighbors, but it won't become part of the case tonight.

Thank you.

So tell me the calculus by which you arrived at the 350,000 for the fire station.

Well, we looked at a couple of uh costs of of different things and trying to figure out based on all the commitments that we had already made, which were significant, and I appreciate you recognizing this.

That was um it was been an interesting case.

Um it's taken over 16 months to get here.

Um we looked at what else we could do, and we tossed the ideas back and forth with staff quite a bit because no proffer uh like this had ever been suggested, and kudos to Herman for for suggesting it.

Um we looked at the various ranges of things that could be needed.

Obviously, this type of investment in an actual station or something like that would be very oversized for something that was already committing almost 40 million dollars to roads.

And so we looked at what could be done with an apparatus and kind of settled on 350 could buy a portion of apparatus that could fund additional resources for uh personnel, but it would really be up to the city administering the grant of how that $350,000 will be used.

All right.

So just final question, d this thought experiment.

The the if if so somebody calls the hotline and says I've got damage to my the foundation of my home where I'm seeing cracks I didn't see before, it's due to your blasting.

What happens?

What how does I'd like to call on uh Walker to answer that if that's okay to button direct from the developer answering?

Mayor Williams, Mayor Pro Tim, good evening members of the council.

Good evening, thank you for your time and endurance tonight.

Um, Mayor Tim Pro Tim, and in response to the question specific to blasting, I didn't know.

Thank you.

I did want to point to um a few precedent projects.

So we are actively uh developing a comparable size project and Apex and just recently delivered a project in Nightdale that was referenced in the presentation.

Project in Nightdale, Nightdale Gateway, um, half a million square feet of light industrial located on the largest quarry in Eastern Wake, adjacent to the Wake Stone Quarry.

We had to do uh a significant amount of blasting there with a 40-foot buffer.

Uh we're project team, project manager, and contractor proud to say we had zero damage to any of the adjacent residential, uh of which we were surrounded on the west and northern side of the site.

And so uh relative to this site, when you go back and you look at the buffering uh to Carolina Arbors with the existing HOA ranges anywhere from 280 to 500 feet.

Um we have legitimately 5 to 10x the setback buffer from residential property that we have had uh both in Nightdale and an Apex.

But to your specific question, um we negotiate a massive form contract with our national general contractors uh that will be subcontracting the site work, uh, and in that contract uh we require the general contractor to maintain an excess of ten million dollars of liability damage.

So in the event that there was uh a casualty to adjacent residential property, they would notify our onset on-site project manager and the site superintendent, uh, and we would initiate a claim just like we would if there was any damage, and oftentimes does occur on site to some of the property that we're building throughout the several year uh build process or build out.

So there are absolutely insurance measures that are in place, and again, um I can say with confidence we've been one of the most active developers in the triangle.

Look at our track record.

We've had zero claims in Apex, and we've had zero claims in Nightdale.

Uh we we have a best in class development team, uh general contracting partner and site contractor, and we hold them accountable and sure that the utilization of blast blankets and all best practices are in place uh to do the best we can to mitigate the damage.

Um again, the track record in our view speaks for itself.

We recognize it is an inconvenience, it's loud, uh we try to avoid it at all costs.

We don't anticipate there being uh significant amount of blasting required here relative to our nightdale project.

Um I hope I hope that speaks to the concern.

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

I'll yield back.

Yeah, so coming back to this what uh council member uh wrist raised, this important conversation around uh bus rapid transit and uh building development, there's transit planning, and then there's planning for transit.

To do that, we need to ensure density, diversity, and design.

Right.

We've talked about these words before density, diversity, and design, density of residence of uses, diversity of uses and and the design, the orientation, that all of that matters, and that's going to change with the new DO.

Uh the light industrial zoning district is incredibly flexible.

Again, it could result in big box stores behind huge uh parking lots.

And that would be a shame if it happened, and maybe that's not the plan, but this opens the door to that.

So uh if we were to send this to the planning commission, here's what I would be interested in seeing uh work happen on.

And that is to ensure that it's truly mixed use, truly uh sustainable neighborhood or series of neighborhoods because of the size of it.

That um that there is because of this massive site that there is additional clustering uh of development and protect protection of any uh uh uh important open space.

Uh in my job, I used to be a city planner in El Paso, Texas.

Uh way back in from 2012 to 2014.

That was my first planning job.

I've been an urban planner ever since then.

Uh a site like this would require 17.5 acres of public park construction and dedication in Texas.

Um we have that.

We have that power.

Um I would be interested in additional conversations with Durham Parks and Recreation.

I know they already had that conversation.

I would be interested in having that conversation uh and securing uh additional park space.

I would like uh 100% uh of residents to be able to walk to a publicly accessible playground or uh greenway trail, constructed greenway trail or public park uh within five minutes.

And five minutes because that's a walk shed, because anything more than five minutes, people choose to get into their their car and and and go somewhere else.

And I'd also like uh a little more information about the ability to walk to these non-residential uses.

I'm interested in that information.

I think it would be useful.

Um no requirements there.

Um child care, something that we desperately need, something that is important that people be able to access.

Um then looking at and comparing the new UDO requirements uh that that we'll that we'll have when we adopt the UDO next year and ensuring that we are uh going to have that in in this case.

Um and then also looking at our our street standards that we are overhauling right now, going through the process of overhauling our street standards to make sure that we're uh not requiring the developer to to build streets that are that are too wide um throughout throughout the development and ensuring we're getting that that connectivity.

So um so those are things and those are the reason why I think and more specifically why I think this should go back to the planning commission, look at those, um, and uh work on those, work out those kinks, bring it back to the city council, and then we can move on from there.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Thank you.

I have a couple questions for staff.

Would a lot of the things that council member baker is asking for happen at the planning commission, or would it happen at site visit or site planning stages?

Um it would depend on how that is enforced.

It would depend on whether the applicant is willing to create a proffer for some of those issues, or whether it would be something that uh would be required through the site plan process, in which case planning commission would not be involved.

Thank you.

And then additionally, when is our um street?

I remember when we did that, the street requirements, when's that supposed to be complete?

So the uh first phase of those new street cross sections and standards will be included in the UDO, and then there'll be like an expansion set that happens afterwards as a second project.

Okay, so basically 2026.

Right.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh I appreciate all of my colleagues' um comments.

Um sometimes I I just want to say out loud this is not a Sims game.

Like I North Carolina does not allow us.

And I know folks don't want to hear that.

And some folks like to say they're gonna push back on the law.

Good luck.

Um but we just don't have the ability to just be a Sims game where we could create the perfect create the perfect scenario, and it just turns out perfectly.

Uh I'm looking at this case and listening to all of the things that are that are provided in it, and it makes me tired.

Um and and also how we say some things, you know, uh can really freak people out.

So I'm I'm gonna try it.

This is a massive development.

It is massive.

Watch out.

It's gonna be so much so many things going on over there.

We're gonna have almost 2,000 dwelling units.

Almost 2,000 on one plot of land.

It's gonna be businesses.

It's gonna be so much revenue for the sales tax base and property taxes.

It's going to be a massive injection into our economy.

It's gonna house people.

Watch out, be careful.

It's gonna house people.

You know, and I'm looking at the planning committee comments.

And one of the main things that I see is about the segregation of the actual affordable housing.

But then I'm listening to the fact that you all have spoken to three affordable housing development uh developers.

So you you've checked that box so that you can focus on that in isolation.

I get conceptually why, and that is a bit of a you know thing is just a value scene that we like to really push on in Durham.

But If this is not a better case than most, I don't know what the heck is.

I I I just don't.

The opposition to it is what I hear on every single case.

The the proponents or more so the actual case itself.

Like I you're you're not uh again, I sell chicken for a living.

I'm not gonna put a restaurant in the middle of God knows nowhere.

It's called market study.

So I think we need to come to reality here and actually start focusing on what makes common sense, what is realistic in the society in which we live here in North Carolina.

And I don't want to send this back to Planning Commission.

I was elected to do a job.

I was elected to where I this is where the buck stops.

And I I all other bodies of government, all of the bodies that are advisory are in fact advisory.

And I'm looking at these comments and I'm reading the comments from the planning commission, and many of them have been addressed.

So I don't need to send it back to someone else.

I and there's this new narrative of we don't need a council.

We have the UDO already.

We have the planning commission, we have all these other boards.

We have a council for a reason.

We have a council to receive as much information from staff, from advisory bodies, and then it comes here.

And I'm sick and tired of scaring the hell out of people and freaking folks out about housing and developers.

When in reality, if you own a plot of land and you want to do something with it, you are officially a developer, my friend.

That is the fact.

This is not my opinion.

This is me living in the real world.

So I I I mean I get a little frustrated when people come to me and they say, well, you know, uh the developer God over here said XYZ, why are you doing this?

Why did you ignore the planning commission?

Because I'm doing my job of what you elected me to do.

And it's not always gonna make you happy, it's not always gonna make you mad.

So I I appreciate the engagement.

I appreciate the commentary from both sides, you know, but but I I I too often we get into this this narrative of you know, uh, you know, uh the council has no purpose.

Like like why why why is the council determining a case this way when the planning commission said XYZ?

As I often say, government is a jigsaw puzzle.

If you put too much in this space, you're gonna always neglect something else.

We have to take a very balanced approach.

And we have to do it within the law.

You don't like the law, that's fine.

I don't like the law, to be honest with you.

We're Dylan Rule State.

You think I like that?

We have we we have very little power.

What we do have is influence.

And you look at this case, this case is this way because of influence.

That is the fact.

So I'm not in the business of scaring dermites.

I'm not in the business of scaring people.

I'm in the business of being honest with you.

And I have no idea how anyone can look at this and say, wow, 40 million dollars in infrastructure, seven acres set aside plus a million dollars, plus the 350,000.

And it's still not good enough.

Affordable housing, almost 2,000 dwelling units, commercial, light industrial, I have no idea what else would be.

Give me a Sims game, and I guess we'll be fine.

But I'm sick of the misleading and scaring people.

I'm done with that.

This is a great case, and I'm gonna support it.

We're gonna move forward with the motion at this point.

You have a question?

All right.

Thank you.

I have a couple questions for the applicant.

I want to hear a little bit about the stormwater.

Uh because I know that y'all didn't do the hundred year, and I want to hear what the decision was behind that.

Yeah.

So we did the hundred year uh treatment in the PDR, which succeeds what most cases have, and is in fact what Reserve Rural Durham requested us to do.

In the IL district, we did the 50 year.

Um and the reason we did that is because of the layout of the buildings and the topography on that section of the site and what we could accommodate.

Uh but to make up for that, we included this submerged gravel wetland commitment that I spoke about tonight.

And that was actually done on an industrial site in Greensboro for the same reason.

Kind of needed it an a layout that worked with the overall industrial uses.

Um but this submerged gravel wetland basically allows for stormwater treatment to stay wet and gravels on top, and then wetland plants can grow up.

Um so you end up with much more of a of a wetland looking with much more vegetation that naturally has more of environmental impact um in a positive way than a standing pond or a dry pond uh would always would otherwise do.

So it's an innovative way of treating stormwater by the state's leading stormwater expert, um, and we were really happy to collaborate with him and follow the suggestion of Dave Morgan, a former RDU authority um board member who helped us uh point us in the direction of of that innovative new technique.

And so we feel like that is gonna be equivalent to the effects of a hundred-year storm style.

Well, what I mean, so a hundred-year storm or impervious are just means to an end, right?

Of tr of capturing the stormwater, treating it, and then slowly releasing it over time.

And there's many different ways that you can design a BMP to do that.

The hundred year just simply means you're retaining more of that in a traditional way.

And so this is a different way of doing that in terms of not necessarily quantity, but in terms of the quality, but in combination with the 50-year storm regular BMP, which is measuring the quantity, you're having both a quantity and a quality treatment um that kind of exceeds what you normally would get out of the UDO and is appropriate for the industrial treatment.

Okay.

Um you mentioned three possibilities for trail.

Can you talk about those in more detail?

And also like what the enforcement of that looks like.

Maybe that might be a short question.

I don't know.

I had a separate slide on that in case this came up.

So this is the location of the trail, just kind of at the end of uh Carolina Arbors here, kind of on the way and the area of the map.

And you can see this only this portion of the trail is actually located on our site.

The rest of this area is all HOA land and would be the responsibility of another party.

And so we've committed to construction uh of the trail plus a 10-foot public easement, so it's publicly accessible, or providing just a 30-foot public easement so that could be done by the city or others if the city wanted to come in and build uh the trail, or a 10-foot publicly accessible, privately maintained facility, in which case it wouldn't have it would have a public accessibility component, but we would maintain it.

And the reason for that optionality is that it provides some sort of connection here either by the actual construction or easement, but because this area is kind of limited, and you can see it's right along um the the um Briar Creek uh creek right there, you have to be very sensitive.

It was talked about before with the grading and an interference with the buffer, and so we need to get to the site level, uh site plan level of detail in order to know which of those commitments we can make.

That would be enforced at site plan.

Okay.

Um and my final question is um I am curious about the conversations that you had with the LITEC developers.

Um I know part of the planning commission concerns were about having segregated affordability with four percent, you don't have to segregate as you do with nine percent.

Um so I just am curious about the conversations you had with them and um.

I guess the concern that was raised at the planning commission and the one that I have in in mind is that even with this one million dollar proffer, if the city is granted this, if it doesn't work out uh for y'all to do to work with a affordable housing developer.

Um it's gonna cost more than a million dollars on the city side to be able to ready that land, and and we've seen honestly what has happened with 505, and so um it just feels like a long way off and like pretty up in the air.

And that is not the result that I necessarily would want to see.

Um so I just would like to hear more detail about the conversations you had um and what you think the outcome will be.

Sure.

Truly.

Sure.

Um so a couple things.

So at the planning commission, we'd had preliminary talks with the Lite Tech developer, and at that point the commitment was that we would set aside the land for the 175 units, but we'd not yet made the commitment that the land would be donated for free.

And again, the land value is is 2.5 million dollars.

So that if that were to be something taken over by the city, it's a two and a half million dollar piece of land that the city wouldn't otherwise have to pay for, and that the LITTEC developer wouldn't have to purchase.

Um at the time we didn't provide details about whether it would be 4% or 9%, because that's still kind of up in the air in terms of how that would be determined.

But as um Councilmember Caballero said, the 9% um we've confirmed with the LITEC developers wouldn't be possible here.

It would be the 4% project that would be um pursued.

And so with some of those um additional conversations, which the the third of which happened um uh as recently as three weeks ago or two weeks ago, um all three of them confirmed that it would be a four percent that they'd be looking for, the contribution of the land would make uh a significant difference.

And then we kind of came up with the one million to be that additional offset.

Um I think the the reality of the of the planning commission comments is that they were they were well taken.

We understand the confusion, but I think the comment was made earlier about this is a a kind of a revolutionary type of commitment that they hadn't seen before, and there wasn't any kind of guidance or precedent for them to compare it to.

And so it can feel like it's not um something that has a tried and trude method.

But that's exactly how Durham's um housing commitments have come to the table.

That's why you have a housing fund in the first place.

Is that somebody came up with a donation and then the next person followed, and then the next person followed, and then that donation increased, and then you got units on the ground.

And so this this commitment is no no different.

It's just a new way of thinking about how to solve the housing crisis and the affordability crisis that you all are in.

Um and it is innovative and it can feel scary, but it's this type of project that has the over 300 acres that can afford to do it.

Not every project can do it.

Um so I we understand that that was a big and scary kind of thing to talk about at a planning commission, but with the additional protections um that we've baked in now that give more certainty that help those LIT tech developers confirm this is possible and something that they would be interested in should the case move forward tonight, which we're um unfortunately having to do um if if the council is willing to do it, because we have obligations to deliver um that first part of the non-residential is planned to be first, and we have obligations to move forward um and try to to deliver that and get our financing so we can get that off the ground.

And I appreciate the comments from um council member uh Baker about being a different type of project that's allowed to deliver that.

And so in order for that to be a reality, um that's what we have to do tonight instead of going back to planning commission.

But we very much appreciate the discussion um and I'm happy to answer any questions about the Lite Tech discussions.

Yeah, thank you.

I I want to be clear, I'm not afraid of it.

I just you keep saying that it feels more concrete, and I guess I'm not hearing um what has happened what has changed to make it feel more concrete that it will happen.

Well, it's a commitment to provide the land, and if the um planning commission, um I'm not suggesting you are scared or the planning commission were scared, it's just a a different concept, and so it can feel unfamiliar, and the land was not dedicated for free at that point in time.

We were still trying to figure out what those terms would look like with the Litech developer, and if we could afford to take on that additional two and a half million dollar commitment in addition to the 40 million dollars of roads and infrastructure I talked about.

So we made that decision since Planning Commission to offer that land for free, and then the additional million dollar gap funding.

So a three and a half million dollar difference between planning commission and coming to here tonight.

Um I think you mentioned some uncertainty about how that would be prepped.

We already had a commitment about providing access and utilities uh to the site that was part of the um plans before planning commission, they didn't get into that discussion, but it was part of the certainty that is part of the case today.

Will the one million gap financing happen regardless, or is that only a contingency if the land is handed over to the city?

It's a donation to the affordable housing fund directly.

Okay, not a contingent, it is just a donation.

Correct.

Okay, thank you.

Um then I guess my final question is um a lot of this space is um is said to be lab and um and some other kind of larger scale uh commercial or um industry.

Sorry, that's late.

I've been working all day.

Um okay, it is meant to be lab and and other potentially like healthcare uh related industry.

We are seeing obviously that those builds are not successful in this moment.

Um and so I'm just wondering if you all have had a conversation about that and what that looks like in terms of is that's a big part of your project.

Yeah, it's a good question.

And I think it's different than some of the life science or other uh warehousing projects you might have seen recently.

It really would be modeled off of something similar to the Nightdale Gateway or the project in Apex that Walker mentioned earlier.

Um so it doesn't exclusively rely on one industry, the medical industry.

It could be a variety of combinations, but they've got this team has the experience of working with those tenants and making sure that they're sourcing tenants to make this successful.

This is the first part of the project starting with the industrial light district and making sure that that's off the ground and successful, and so all of our resources will be put to put towards uh chasing tenants in that space and diversifying so that we can make sure we can deliver.

Are you all interested tonight in restricting uh types of builds that go in there?

If we're concerned or concern about the big box stores type of build.

Are y'all do y'all have any interest in making commitments around restricting the type of building the type of building or the type of industry?

Sorry.

No, I mean I think the way to make these types of projects successful is to make sure you're responding to the market and doing it in a way that can deliver the space so that we can pay for all of the things that we've committed to doing tonight.

And the only way to be able to do that is to get this space leased up and operating.

And so I think adding those commitments tonight would be a detriment to the project, and we're very much looking forward to delivering all this uh public infrastructure with private dollars.

Thank you.

Those are my questions.

Um I just um I just want to say really quickly, I think it's and I'm you can sit down this.

Okay.

Thank you, Statement.

Um that I feel like it's a bit disingenuous for us to sit up here and and talk about wanting more information as as something that's like we're not willing to take responsibility for votes.

Um I'm a I'm a lawyer, y'all have worked with me for a year and a half.

You know that I ask 100 million questions all the time.

And this is a big decision.

This is a decision about what this entire area will look like.

It's a huge, huge amount of land, and I know that there's maybe some conversation about what's not a huge amount of land or what is it.

I think everyone up here agrees that five times the volume of downtown Durham is a large plot.

And having as much information as possible in front of us, I don't think is acting unreasonably or um fearmongering or or whatever else we've set out here.

Um I think it's just a a really reasonable thing to use the resources that we have at our disposal to ensure that this project is the best that it can be.

We're gonna sit here and say it's kind it's it works with a comprehensive plan, but it had a majority denial from our planning commission.

Um and the proffers that have been made certainly I think make the project more attractive.

Um it was already somewhat with the comprehensive plan and it was denied by the planning commission.

So I just want to say that I don't think that that's appropriate.

Uh the language that's been used about that.

And that also my interest in having more information is not disinterest in this project, right?

I think this actually is like a really good project, and I'm really excited to see large-scale um comprehensive development out there.

Um I have been the biggest um I feel like opponent of these like piecemeal projects, and this does reflect what I would like to see.

So I just want to say that I don't think that that is that is um I don't think that language is is reflective of the work that we're doing up here.

Thanks.

Ms.

Mayor, can I call the question?

Uh yeah, one moment.

Um I I because I think this is I I want to be able to move on.

Um did Councilmember Cook, did you feel you were not afforded the time?

Okay.

Mr.

Baker, you had another comment.

Yes.

I appreciate that.

Um Yes.

Uh there have been remarks.

I am a professional urban planner, have been for over a decade.

I write zoning regulations.

I I'm well aware of what is within uh the law and what uh what we should be striving for.

Um I'm not going to make a motion to send this to the planning commission because that would obviously not happen.

I want to ask a few questions to the developer.

All right, I'm gonna press pause there because we are well over the next to your remark.

Um and council member, my apologies you did call for the question.

I we are well beyond a two-hour mark for our closed captioning, and I need to honor that.

Give me one second.

And we'll come back at eleven thirty.

Thank you.

And we ended with uh Councilmember Baker had a few more questions and then we will get to the motion.

All right.

I'll be very quick.

I think I just have two here.

Would you be willing to make some sort of commitment where you would go back to parks and recreation and work with them at both of your discretion to potentially construct and dedicate a public park?

We're willing to work with all staff during the site plan.

I'm not willing to add that commitment to this case because we have already tried it and they rejected it, and so I can't jeopardize the rest of the improvements by adding that as a proffer tonight.

But we will work with staff as we always do around the clock.

Okay.

And then I'm guessing what we won't we won't expect a commitment here, but 75% of residents within a 10-minute walk of a playground greenway or parking.

I mean I think that the UDO requirement for the connectivity within the PDR connecting those homes to uh amenities and our provision of the 10-foot shared pass along the main thoroughfares will provide that connectivity.

Um we'll also provide it within the Industrial Light District, although that will be look a little different with how we mix those uses together and will depend on the use.

So again, not willing to be have a proffer, but I think this team is uh committed and the projects are on your screen to making good looking projects that work for everyone.

Okay.

That's it.

That's it for my for my questions.

And I I am gonna just state, because I want this to be on the record that uh that the kind of project that we have discussed tonight.

If it is to be the mixed use and light industrial and uh mixed residential and mixed use residential with some walkability elements, if we had more if that was more solidified, this is something that I would be able to support.

Because this keeps the door open to more traditional conventional sprawl type of case, I can't support it.

But I want it to be on the record that I am I am so close.

Um and I already know that it's gonna pass as well.

So that's it for me.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I'm gonna go ahead and bring us to a close.

I am going to say on the record also uh to staff.

I was gonna ask about now that we have such an influx of uh the tax base in this neighborhood.

I'm interested in knowing uh which I would like this answer after the meeting.

Well uh or either just send it to my email so we can have it accessibly accessible publicly.

But I think we're at a point where at least my interpretation where we could really um do some traffic calming in some other areas.

I don't know what that mechanism would look like.

I know we have DOT roads, whatever, but where we can, you know, uh maybe work with them to do some other traffic calming mechanisms in the entire region out there, because I know we can't do anything with 70 right now.

So I was gonna ask that, but uh I want us to move on and um I'll get that in and get it to the community members later.

All right.

Um colleagues, I'm gonna move us to the question here.

I'm trying to appease everyone, so council uh Councilmember Risk called a question and we got the other questions answered.

Uh I will entertain a motion to adopt an ordinance annexing annexing Durham Gateway at Briar Creek into the City of Durham and to authorize the city manager to enter into a utility extension agreement with Beacon Development Company.

So moved.

Second.

It's been moved and properly seconded.

Madam Court, please open the vote.

I need one more person to vote.

Mr.

Mayor, you need to vote.

Oh, it's me.

I'm sorry.

I was looking at the green circle, not the green.

It didn't light up.

All right.

My bad.

All right.

Please close the vote.

Thank you.

The vote is four to zero with Councilmember Baker and four to two, I'm sorry.

With Councilmember Baker, you click voting now.

Thank you.

And I'll also understand a motion to adopt an ordinance amending the unified development development ordinance by taking property out of residential rule, commercial general, and industrial light, dorm county jurisdiction and residential four.

Wake county jurisdiction and establishing the same as industrial light with the development plan and plan development residential 10.649 city jurisdiction.

Moved as red.

Second.

Thank you.

And lastly, I'll entertain a motion to adopt a consistency statement as required by North Carolina General Statute Section 160 D dash six zero five.

Moved to adopt the system.

Second.

Motion passes unanimously.

Thank you so much.

Uh colleagues, thank you all for uh as always a rich debate.

And um see you all on Thursday.

We are y'all's procedures.