Hello everyone, welcome.

It's great to see everybody.

All right, Madam Clerk would use follow.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Mayor Williams.

Mayor.

Mayor.

Councilmember Baker.

Councilmember Caballero.

Councilmember Cook.

Here.

Councilmember Freeman present.

Council for arrest.

Here.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Councilmember Cook, and we're so on any announcements or comments briefly.

Thank you all for being here.

I don't have any announcements.

Awesome.

All right, go ahead.

Yeah, uh, no announcements.

I did have one item here.

Um we know that ICE is operating in our community, and it's something that I think has disturbed all of us.

Um I know that we would all prefer uh not to see any ICE uh operation here because I don't think that it makes our community safer.

Um but at a bare minimum, um, you know, we frequently lament the fact that we don't know what they're doing.

At a bare minimum, we'd like to know that and have some transparency.

So um, colleagues, I'd be interested in bringing an item uh in the form of a resolution in our next work session, and I apologize that I haven't spoken with all of you earlier.

I will uh work up a draft and get one to you as quickly as possible, um, but bringing a resolution to our next work session um to make regular uh freedom of Freedom of Information Act uh requests to the Department of Homeland Security to uh to get some of the information about any enforcement activities that are taking place in our city.

Would you be amenable to that?

Yeah.

Fair enough.

All right.

All right, thank you for that.

Um we can chat also.

Recognize government.

Um, Councilmember.

Yes, thank you.

I just had one uh announcement I forgot on Monday night to say happy emancipation day for all of those from Trinidad and Tobago.

And other than that, that's all.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember Russ.

Thank you, Miss Mayor, Catholic colleagues, definitely staff, residents.

Thank you for being here.

Um a couple things.

First of all, um I just wanted to say big congratulations to the Latino Community Credit Union, which is today celebrating their 25th anniversary.

Um, as you know, I'm a big credit union fan, I'm on the board of Sale Life Credit Union, but I'm also an account holder at Latino Community Credit Union.

Uh, they'll be celebrating.

I'm going to see some of you standing that celebrating there in version 74.

Um, this is a huge success story in the credit union movement, but also for Durham.

Latina was founded in Durham 25 years ago, starting from scratch, is now that I'll sell to over a billion in assets, billion dollars in assets, um, serving over 210,000 members across 15 branches in the state.

So that's a huge success story right here from Durham.

I just want to say a big congrats to the staff there at Latino for the great work they've done, uh, including uh the current CEO and executive director, uh, Vicky Garcia's a good friend and doing an amazing job.

So shout out to Latino Community Credit Union.

Um, so you know, I want to I want to talk about housing.

It's a big priority for our city.

Um it's a hot topic.

I know it was a hot topic yesterday in the joint city county planning committee meeting.

I said I saw that online, watched your your comments online, quite interesting.

Um I received a bunch of emails before and quite interesting.

I love it.

Thanks for watching.

Yeah, I mean I had to make a thought.

Yeah, thank you for the first discussion, yeah.

So um, you know, leading up to the meeting on Monday and after Monday, I continue to get emails from residents about housing issues.

Um, and some still clamoring over past decisions about rezoning.

So I just want to connect a couple thoughts about housing.

It's a big topic.

It's also on our agenda today.

We've got a number of items related to housing.

Um the first thing I want to say is that I've heard concerns about market reconstruction, whether that whether that supply really targets the real crisis, right?

We've heard about the concerns about whether this accelerates displacement, another concern.

And we've heard the concerns about the need for permanent affordable housing, also an important concern.

So just a couple of dots I want to connect.

So the first thing is um a bunch of us got up early on on Tuesday morning after our late meeting, a bunch of staff and myself, and went to the Chamber of Commerce mid year economic outlet meeting.

Um as the city manager and others know, there was a bunch of data shared, one of which is a slide from Matt Gladvick that showed vacancy rates in Durham, rental vacancy rates.

And those rates have inched up, right?

So now the vacancy rate is about 12%.

And there's been some talk about vacancies, so much vacancy, and that's when we got into units.

What does that mean?

At the same time, and this is really important data.

Um rents have actually declined, the rent increases declined over the last several years, and over the last year, absolute rents have gone down in the city of Durham.

And that's a big boost to all the renters of the city, especially the 50% of renters who are housing cost burdened.

So from my perspective, that speaks to the importance of important decisions.

This council and past councils have made difficult decisions about expanding housing supply.

It seems to be working in our residents are benefiting from that.

The second thing is there's this question again about like does this cause gentrification, right?

Was housing supply cost gentrification?

I just want to quote from a report.

The mayor and I have talked about this.

A recent report, I think just came out yesterday from the Pew Triple Trust about this question of what's the relationship between housing supply, gentrification, and a quality, quality of life in our communities.

So the report finds, and I quote the nationwide housing shortage has driven rents up more in low-income neighborhoods than the U.S.

overall.

But in areas that have recently added large amounts of housing, rents have fallen the most in lower income neighborhoods with older buildings.

And then continuing, the findings suggest that not allowing, not allowing more homes to be built, even for high income residents, pushes up all rents, making it harder for low-income tenants to remain in the neighborhoods.

The last thing I want to note is I want to thank I'm glad Mr.

Schnell's here.

So I took the invitation from DHA to visit yesterday.

The uh the new, the latest property in Delia is here too.

Um the latest news property called Bang on the Vega, right?

Which normally was Lesb Street, right?

So this is the first property, right, in our Durham DHA downtown neighborhood partnership that's come online.

It's about how many red how many units, 60 units?

20 units, okay.

So these some of these units are for people returning to that community, some are transfer assistance from other public housing communities, and some are market rate housing, all below 80%, but some deeply affordable.

So that means your housing bond money is at work creating permanently affordable housing in Durham.

It's coming online now.

There's going to be a groundbreaking, I think, maybe in a couple months, but you may not be able to get to see this.

These units are amazing.

High quality units.

And since this is mixed income housing, there's amenities like in unit hookups for wash and dryer if you want.

There's also washers and drivers on the floor if you if you don't want to do that.

There's things like uh recreation rooms.

So people can actually shot.

So all the amenities people want across a range of incomes.

Again, high quality housing.

This is the direction we're going in housing in this community with public housing.

I know there's been a lot of conversation about DHA and some of the challenges that Mr.

Chanel and his staff are working on.

But this is the future of public housing and public housing investment.

Again, your bond funds at work.

Um THA is going to come back to us later this fall with a request for funds to start the redevelopment of both Fayette Place and Forest Hills Heights.

So this is the future of housing.

This is happening right now.

And so I just want to say stay stay tuned.

James can't come soon enough for people who are burdened by high housing costs.

But this council, DHA, and your council members in the city are moving aggressively to address the housing challenge, and we're starting to see the results.

So thank you very much, Mr.

Mayor.

Thank you.

I can click back to you and just post it.

All right.

Thank you, Mr.

Good afternoon, honorable colleagues, and everyone in our chamber with us today, to all of our residents and friends, whatever platform we may be watching today.

And the first edition of around Captain June, we're looking forward to doing more.

Just very quickly, friends, on Monday at our Monday work session, I had uh made a statement about uh revisiting the violence interruption model in Durham.

There was some subsequent media uh after that uh around that announcement, and the impression I was given that we would be discussing it in the next point city county meeting in this month.

We actually will be discussing that in October.

So I wanted that these levels set in maybe the expectations from for our Cree, who may have been watching that meeting and may have been watching subsequent media reports, but I want to thank this council for your for being amenable to that revisitation.

I want to also thank my colleagues at the at the county as well, and look forward to a substantive conversation for something that I think is is sorely needed in our city.

So thank you so much.

Good to see you all.

Yeah.

Yeah, thank you.

Uh just the tackle.

I yeah, I think it may have been a little confusing.

We have to look at respond to me or sorry.

Uh colleagues, I will be proposing uh actually quite a bit of uh quite a few community groups of very holistic.

Um not only is this value of an eruption by the impagment, um, just thinking of very creative and innovative approach to reducing uh uh list in general, especially young balance, but uh hopefully specifically we're talking about this as well, uh, reducing that uh you know and closed schools and the school county or included us, you know, I hope that it'll be somewhat meanable as we said when uh we had our passion and exchange in the year, our last work session.

Um and it's just you know the manager is community city and county or working with some uh just looking at some options as well uh we're looking at how we can engage heart and all the resources that we can really have but there's a lot of work that's happening on the ground and I saw a lot of this is closing the future fund uh organizations so I'm looking forward to just bringing up for us to entertain.

I don't really have much um I can't remember what a day before yesterday so uh so this has been a rough week so I want to get on then and for example I'm gonna ask that you uh proceed with the uh consensus and let me run back to my office briefly um council member cook sorry um yeah I just want to I just want to ask for clarity because um I I appreciate your statements but I feel like when we have come to the work session if we have an agenda item that we want to talk about in devs I think it would be good to put that on the agenda as a conversation um because those were meant to be announcements and I just want to be clear about what we are looking for in that time frame and so whether or not there's like the ability to respond to some of the things that you said which I do feel like are very policy heavy right um and I haven't read that study but I know that there's been other studies in the past that have said things that are similar but when you break them down they don't exactly align maybe with the city of Durham and our progress.

So I think it would be helpful in the future just to have a heads up that that conversation's gonna happen and have space for uh health yeah yeah just uh and just to have space it and and I'm I it's not an attack I just I know that sometimes we like wax poetic in these announcement sections and so I just think that is a it's a just as like moving forward a good idea to know if if we're gonna have a conversation about that maybe it gets put on as an agenda item so that folks can actually um I still said that because we're working on adjusting this agenda so that we can have more deep dives so it's coming because I know it is it's burning for us to maybe talk about it.

Yeah.

Mr Buff if I want to I want to associate myself with Council River Cups uh comments I I don't know how many times I've said on the days in meetings and and this is the colleagues um go into policy.

Um and actually just come short of calling names talk about actions of council members.

So I yeah I want to associate myself but I I think every one of us up here, some more than others have certainly uh used the time of announcements to to make to wax on about feelings about things and access as counsel statements with your comments.

I appreciate that Councilmember Cook um as well.

I I did just want to make sure I didn't forget to mention um the breakfast that I had a chance to attend mayor and city manager where they went along with county commissioners.

Um just point out the the work of Lincoln Community Health Center and then to just say that we have along with that housing conversation there needs to be some conversation about health and what that means to folks in their homes and it's not limited to rental is also home ownership.

There's so much to talk about in there.

I won't go on a long waxing but I will say that I I would appreciate an agenda item but uh it was definitely uh eye-opening to see um the state vice president of housing coalition uh shared a lot of information about how cuts are gonna hit um Lincoln and we need to be prepared to figure out how to support even though that's not our main area because you know folks are losing SNAP, they're losing um access to care and I I I also had a chance to visit with um say it again the the Vanguard and all the cuts that are hitting HUD um there's there's an onslaught of pressure that's going to be on us locally and I don't know that we can just kind of dream about what we want it to look like if we don't put some band-aids on what's happening right now.

So I just want to put that on our radar and just point out that that they're going to be asking for help.

So that would be like an health servant 37,000 patients last year.

It's kind of like the adults you know just cancel badges health services.

It's gonna bring them you know potentially going to break or losing a health institution.

What do you think is happening to rural parts of Mark Carlo?

I start where I'm from, where we call Sorrowish College, or Nas County, where I also am from, and either where the office is from, circle in any other places.

All of those houses are closed.

So we have a privilege here in an urban setting.

And if we're on a break and moving a hospital added, I I don't want to guess I want to break them losing because that's not the case, but just be sure else is federal government.

Can easily just stop funding like that.

And I will say the funding support from Duke, but it's slightly a lot of in time, not direct financial.

So although we have services are in the county's portfolio.

I don't mind rifting over waxing, but I just also just wanted to end with saying a big thank you to all of those in the medical profession who do spend their time volunteering with our local federally qualified health center.

I want to say thank you again and again.

Thank you.

And keep keep volunteering, keep pouring your hours in.

Thank you.

Thank you so much, colleagues.

At this time, I'm going to yield to the manager for priority items.

Thank you, Mayor Proton.

Members of Council, good to be with you again.

The city manager's office has several priority items for today's work session.

First, regarding agenda item number 22, the Walltown Small Area Plan and Place Time Map Amendment.

A presentation will be made during the August 18th, 2025 Council meeting as part of the public hearing.

So look forward to that presentation a week from Monday.

Then there are four supplemental items that have been added of the time sensitive nature, so I just wanted you to know about these supplemental items.

These are agenda item number 26, the grant agreement with the Durham Housing Authority for Forest Hills Heights Relocation Activities.

Agenda item number 27, the loan commitment for 902 South Briggs Avenue Redevelopment Mosaic Development Group.

Agenda item number 28, amendment to city loan with KB Carver LLC for Sandy Ridge Station Project, increased loan amount, and revised affordability terms, and agenda item number 29, resolution approval of a multifamily housing facility to be known as 902 Southburg's Avenue in the City of Durham, North Carolina, and the financing thereof with multifamily housing revenue bonds and an aggregate amount not to exceed 22,500,000.

Those are the city manager's office priority items.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Madrid.

Requesting action today.

I am not.

Thank you so much, sir.

I just don't want to yield to the city attorney for any priority items.

Good afternoon, Councillor.

Good afternoon, Mayor Pratem.

Mr.

Mayor, members of the council, the city attorney's office does not have any priority items today.

Thank you so much, Madam Clerk.

Good to see you good afternoon.

I yield to you for any priority items.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor Pro Tem.

I do have my boarding committee commission report.

The Recreation Advisory Commission for the mayoral appointment.

Michael Johnston has been nominated.

Under the participatory budgeting steering committee appointment for the category of at-large, Elizabeth Edmondston.

For the Durham's workers' rights commission appointment, category of diverse backgrounds, Sean M.

Cable.

And for the Durham Bicycle and Pedestrian Advisory Commission appointment for the category of at-large, there were two nominees, Jeffrey M.

Backluk, and Kathleen Herald for the category of transportation planning policy.

Christopher N.

Perlson and Walking running pedestrian community, Jordan Powell.

And the last one for the Housing Appeals Board appointment for the category of regular member, Richard R.

Andrews for the category of tenant, Jacob Severin.

And for the alternate member under the same category of housing appeals board is Rita R.

McDaniel, and that's the end of my report.

Thank you for your report, Medical Clark.

My colleague is Tommy for reading 25 items into the agenda.

Starting with City Clerk's Office Item 1, Recreation Advisory Commission, Mayoral Appointment, Item Two, Participatory Budgeting Steering Committee Appointment Item 3, Boards, Committees, Commissions, and Task Force Fiscal Year 2024, 2025 Annual Intendance Reports.

Item three.

Yeah.

Item 3 is polled.

Proceeding item number four, Durham Workers Right Commission, Durham Workers Rights Commission appointment.

Item number five, Durham Bicycle and Pedestrian Advisory Commission appointment.

Item number six, housing appeals board appointment, moving to departmental items from City Manager's Office Item Number 7, 2026 City Council meeting schedule.

Can I pull that, please?

Of course.

Item number seven is full.

Under emergency communications department.

Item number eight, Central Square Technologies, CAD to CAD Unified Cloud Subscription Service Contract.

Item number nine, American Rescue Plan Act ARPA, interlocal agreement with Durham County to support digital equity efforts in FI Distribution Program Contract with Sale Co-Partnership.

Doing business as Verizon Wireless.

Pull that one.

Item number nine is pulled.

Proceeding under environmental street services department.

Item number 10, amendment number one to professional services contract, SW50D, North Duke Street Sidewalk Improvement.

Tip number EB-5715.

Okay.

Under Fleet Management Department.

Item number 12, cooperative group purchase contract, Hazmat truck under General Services Department.

Item number 13, Second Amendment, the service agreement for project management consulting services with Turner and Townsend Fury LLC.

Pull that one out.

Item number 13 is Bill Pulled.

Proceeding item number 14 parking facility structural maintenance.

Package number one, project contract change order number five with Carolina Restoration and Waterproofing Inc.

Item number 15, First Amendment to the Solid Waste Management Yard Waste Repairs Engineering Services Agreement with Smith Gardner, Inc.

I don't know.

Just noticed that this is important upgrading facilities that could allow potentially food composting at our solid waste facilities exciting stuff.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilmore.

Item number 16, Environmental and Street Services Administration Building, Roof and Envelope Repairs Design, Contract with R and D Architects PA.

Under Parks and Recreation Department, item number 17, resolution approving street closures for the 2025 movable city open streets and 2025 Durham Holiday Parade.

Again, great stuff.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Agreed.

Under Transportation Department, item number eight, FY26 Transit Grant Project Ordinances.

Item number 19, FY2026, Durham County Transit Work Program Funding Agreement.

Under our water management department, item number 20 purchase ordered with Swan Analytical USA Inc.

for turbid turbidimeter turbidometers and controllers at the Brown and Williams Water Treatment Plant.

Those are used for the theme crystals.

Item number 21.

I want to pull that turbine.

Item number 20.

Yes.

It's pulled.

Proceeding.

Item number 21, professional services contract with high fill infrastructure engineering PC for the 15501 and Cornwallis Road Water Line and Andrew Avenue 10 Drain Line Improvements Project.

Public hearings to be taken up at our next full council meeting, City County Planning and Development Department.

Item number 22, Walltown Small Area Plan, in place type map amendment A25000001.

That is a uh presentation that the manager flagged that will occur when he said it would.

Item number 23, zoning map change, Fanville Flats.

Item number 24, zoning map change, 4218, South Alston Avenue.

Item number 25, zoning map change, 303, U.S.

70, Warehouse.

I have not been given any citizens matters that I know of.

A supplemental items, housing and neighborhood services department, all flag bar manager.

Item number 26, grant agreement with the Durham Housing Authority for Forest Health Fates Relocation Activities.

Item number 27, loan commitment for 902 South Breaks Avenue Redevelopment, Mosaic Development Group.

Item number 28, amendment to city loan with KB Carver, LLC, facing rig station projects, increased loan amount and revised affordability terms.

Item number 29, resolution approval of a multifamily housing facility to be known as 902 South Breaks Avenue in the City of Durham, North Carolina, and the financing thereof with multifamily housing revenue bonds and aggregate amount not to exceed 22 million five hundred thousand dollars that ends the reading of our agenda.

Mr.

Manager, by my reckoning, we have items three, seven, nine, thirteen, and twenty poll.

Do you concur?

All right.

Swear you want me to proceed.

System ID.

Item number three will uh take it from the top, which is pulled by Council Member Riss.

I'll yield to you.

Um Laroland, Deputy City Clerk standing in for Ashley Adams.

Thanks, Julie.

Thanks for the uh tax report.

I just had a question about this, because they're um I think it's really important data to have, but I'm not sure some of it seems like not quite completely complete.

So for example, like the Carolina Theater Durham, which I've said on, only shows three members.

Is that like if they're like city appointed or like so why only three?

That's correct.

We only keep track of city appointees.

Okay, I got that, we got.

But then other ones, there's like metrics that don't always make sense.

Like in some cases the denominator appears to include blacked out dates.

And someone shows us 33%, but like there's a bunch of dates that are blacked out that maybe they weren't on that commission anymore.

So it seems like the wrong percentage.

So uh so that that denomination would come from the excuse absences that they had that they were actually present for and what they missed from that non-blocked out part.

I'm not sure that I'm not sure that's also like one person had 11% attendance.

So this seems like the math is not always correct.

Sure.

So when we're gathering the reports, we make it very clear to staff liaisons if that board has a staff liaison that we aren't going to change the percentages.

We we give them a blank template, we give them a completed report that shows exactly how to um do the calculations for the board.

But um when it comes to the assistant city clerk, since they're receiving almost 30 reports, we don't want to go in and change any of the percentages already received.

Now, if Ashley or Javon, dependent on who's going to be receiving them, can uh look at it and make sure that the percentages are correct or sees any mistakes, she'll notify the staff lady liaison and then ask them to correct it and send it back.

Um but we try to get these typically on the second to third council meeting of the new fiscal year just to make sure that it's within the time frame of what what we're asking them for.

Yeah, I understand the uh your challenge on here when gives us the way towards here's one like on the on the Durham Housing Authority Board.

So data I should see you left the board in October of 24 shows them a bunch of dates that are blacked off after you left the board, but it shows us attendance as 31%.

So some ways the data then like is not always useful.

It's not really accurate.

So that's that's it.

So we've said we read through these, so I don't have time to crunch all the numbers, but it's sort of like we I want to make sure we're getting as good data as possible.

Well, if if you'd like, we're happy you can refer the item back to our department.

We can scrub through them one more time.

I I just don't encourage Javon or Ashley to make any changes to the reports.

Um we want to make sure that we're encouraging the staff liaisons to get that as accurately as possible.

So I guess that's yeah, I guess if there's any way to sort of encourage the staff liaison to make sure what they're submitting is sort of like does reflect the reality, that'd be helpful.

I don't want to send this back.

I think it's good data, but I just want to make sure that the staff liaison are giving us the the best they've got.

So the next time the reports come around, which will probably be um for the calendar year, we'll make sure that the reports received are as accurate as possible.

And um you will make sure that we scrub through them before we present them to you if that means maybe going past agenda deadline.

So I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilman Collie.

Anyone else on this item?

All right, we'll move to item number seven, Councilman Mocabiura, we yield to you.

Thank you.

Um I would like to flag a couple of and it goes way into the future, but any interest in moving our December 18th, 2025 work session, which would be on a Thursday two days earlier, December 16th, going ahead and making the decision about whatever we're going to do about the summer.

So it's not um because I think Councilmember Cook ended up having to get an excuse to absence because she already had work obligations that day.

And then finally, I think in subsequent 2026, the work session is on December 23rd.

That seems particularly cruel.

Um so uh for not everyone celebrates that holiday, but uh, you know, folks, people's kids are out on winter breaks, and it's work for families at that time of year.

Uh and so if we could also move that work session.

I mean, I figured y'all would be uh, you know, is it well people will be happy I pull this one.

Um so I I guess basically moving whatever to the Tuesday, we've done that before, so I guess the 16th, and then want to hear from council about next summer, and then I guess the 23rd would be the 21st.

Oh sorry, December 23rd, 2026 would be December 21st.

I don't think we can move it sooner because we haven't kept council meeting that Monday.

I think that's what we copy are you suggesting for the for the um uh July 23rd work session, then we just bump that into August as we can.

If that's what we would like to do, that we just go ahead and make that decision now.

I agree.

Um yes, uh what we did this year um work uh take a long day to have a long one, you know, uh so yes, and also I was gonna propose uh a special meeting in December as well.

Um organization meeting.

If I and I'm not mistaken, we took that up with procedures about the first uh correct and that got updated.

That's what your procedure summary, that that first meeting in December is an organizational meeting real to speech called students worn in.

That's it.

No business.

We haven't had a lot of conversation.

We have a new agenda manager, Mary Grace.

So we haven't had that conversation yet about how we will manage the workflow, but that is what the council voted on.

So just the clear with some.

So I guess we can really work on a December meetings.

No, I'm sorry.

I think what the mayor's referencing is whatever, I guess it's not on here for the first one's December 18th.

So whatever that first Monday meeting is in December, it's December 7th.

Right is what I think.

Is that on the previous calendar?

Is that essentially where that is?

Yes.

I'm sorry, yes, it wouldn't have been on the last one.

Yep.

So we're so th those are my suggestions.

Thanks.

Love that.

Yeah.

Um it does call into question then whether or not uh a work session on November 19th would be necessary if that is the work session designed to set the agenda for the December 7th meeting.

If the December 7th meeting is only going to be organizational, then but what I might suggest is you just allow us to process this conversation going forward, go ahead and make whatever decisions you do here.

And if we want to come back with alterations later, it it is possible that the administration might want to suggest a special business meeting given that the you know we stay busy all year, and so uh, but I think we hear you that the December 7th meeting would like to be organizational only.

I'm just gonna say this uh moving forward because um I'm in full agreement.

I will be teaching a class on Tuesday evenings uh that starts at four.

So just for when we're moving things to Tuesday, just know that I will have that time constraint on the end.

Councilman Covier, thank you of your leadership on it.

Can we make one final comment?

Of course.

Uh it's rare that we get to uh show the council uh the staff who makes these meetings happens, but since this allowed us to bring Mary Brooks to the podium, I just wanted to acknowledge that uh Mary is the reason uh that these uh agendas go so smoothly and that uh the public gets good access.

So as long as she was in the room, I wanted to uh publicly thank her for all her work.

Thank you, Mary.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Manager, absolutely.

People who make the magic happen.

Moving to item number nine, I'll yield to Councilmember Clark.

Yeah, your mic's not on.

Hello.

Um, so I these are very, very quick questions, but whenever something with ARPA comes up this far in the time frame, I'm just always curious about how it works with our ARPA calendaring restrictions.

So I was wondering if we could speak to that a little bit.

Um as far as the the funding for this.

Yes.

Yeah, so with this, we are still um.

I'm so sorry.

Yes.

Hello.

Um my name is Patrice Carroll.

I'm the digital inclusion program manager for um in the engagement department, in the new engagement department.

Okay, sorry about that.

Um but to answer your question, um yes, the the funding for this is still on track to be expended by December 31st, 2026.

Okay.

And this um and so it was already obligated prior.

Yes, correct.

Okay.

Yes.

Um and so this that's in front of us today.

I mean, I'm just wondering if you could give me, I've read the memo and I just feel like it it feels a little unclear to me this particular piece of it, the CellCo partnership.

So oh, yes, go whatever whatever you say.

So yes, so um it's the county funds um that we're actually using for this.

Oh, that makes so much more sense.

Okay, thank you.

Yes, that's helpful.

Um and then, and then if you could just talk about this exact piece with the Celco partnership and why we're just seeing this separate and right now.

Okay, so with this, um this is one of the initiatives for the modified distribution, and we actually had to go through the RFP, the the regular process to select our um vendor for it, which we did earlier this year.

And so now that we actually have our vendor that's approved now we're going through the process to actually get the contract and all sign.

So that's why right now it's just coming through we did receive the funds in I think November or December last year so we just really began working on this project at the beginning of this year.

Awesome and can you just talk a little bit about this project because I do think it's cool.

Yes.

Yes.

So with this project we are actually um providing devices for um the modifies and we will be given the devices where they will be able to keep those and we'll be actually able to provide services for up to a limited amount of time.

So with the funds running out it will actually be through the um November of next year.

So with this all qualifying residents will be able to receive a device and again receive free um internet service for a limited time.

Awesome and since you are I think also the person that would know the answer to this how will people find out about this project and then how will they be able to opt out?

Oh yes so we are definitely in a campaign right now where we are getting this message out we actually have people that are doing table and events and we're working with our community based organizations.

We also are putting it in through our water bill and we are also using the transit as another way to be able to promote um to be able to promote the um the program.

Thank you.

Yes those are all my questions okay first we're C here in a row right okay we're going to make sure this guy's covered this is okay during the founding good time is communicating here with this is great work.

Thank you.

Yes.

Thank you so much.

Sure.

Thank you I have just one quick question um are you all also collaborating since you're going to have participatory budgeting this fall potentially they're going to be tabling a ton and so um maximizing that effort on community as well?

Yes and again with us being in the engagement department we are actually working with them yes.

I'm sorry Captain Burris Thank Ms.

Carroll can you also say exactly like what the qualifications I imagine some income or what's the what's the how's one qualify?

So to qualify for the program it's income based and if you're on government assistant program.

And what's the process like is that a sort of like version process would be pretty easy to to get that if you qualify to get certified.

So they will just we have the documents that they would need to send in to um qualify them for the program.

So there's a list of the type of documents to send in so that they can actually qualify that our team actually vets into your office.

Exactly so we have a survey that we actually send out that they would um complete and then once it comes in and they can either attach their documents or bring them to the day of deployment where we would then review them and if they qualify they will then be able to um receive the devices.

And would you like tax returns or W2s or what's that what is um sorry um we have a list and the tax returns I don't think is is one of them I I don't remember exactly off offhand but I do have a list on our website of the different documents that can actually be brought in and but I have to confirm if they set a you bring it in so you can mail it in.

So they will right now we have in them to be able to attach it to the survey to send it in which we are receiving in through um Civic Plus so they can send it in encrypted and then if they are unable to because they they may not be able to attach it they can bring it the day of deployment and we will then be able to um scan it and put it because we'll have to provide that information of course for federal funding.

Thank you.

All right thank you so much.

All right um yeah I guess this one stood out to me because the numbers are this increase is just very drastic and I just wanted to to hear some information on the amendment and why we saw the it was like a 50% increase and I didn't feel like the memo language was like a lot of project project project project project and there was like not a lot I mean they broke it down for us later but I just curious like how how um we got to a point where we needed to amend for such a large difference in money.

I mean, they broke it down for us later, but I just am curious like how um we got to a point where we needed to amend for such a large difference in money.

Thank you, Gina Probible for general services.

So there is an attachment in the documents that helps to supplement the agenda memo, which identifies all of the projects for which program management, project management services are um tied to.

Overall, it's about a 3.7% charge to the project to provide project management services through the consulting group.

The consulting group allows us to scale up quickly when we have new projects that are added, like we did this year for FY26, or when we have additional funds added to projects because of either cost escalation or changes to the project scope.

So what you'll see is a um a flat fee against the project that helps to um pay for or procure the services for project management.

We currently have the team that we're using is Turner Towns and Harry, they are working on some of our larger projects because we want to get as quickly as we can our projects through design and construction to have them deliver.

So the ability to work with the consultant team that can quickly bring on project management services that allows us to deliver is how this model has been set up so we can scale up and scale down over a five-year period.

So you'll see that some of the projects are new projects that came online for FY26.

Those of the projects are in the attachment in blue, and some of them are additional funds for existing projects that were underfunded.

So this um the amount of project management services relates to the overall project budget.

Also, when we developed our project budgets this year, we anticipated the need for these services so they were part of the project budget.

Oh, okay.

That's interesting.

I have two follow-up questions for now.

Um the first is for now for now.

Um the first is uh so because we're like using this consultant and then we like are able to, and I understand the efficiency argument of being able to scale up and scale down very quickly.

Um, but how often do we do like an RFP?

How often are we comparing that consultant with other folks who might be in the field?

And this consultant was selected off of a cooperative purchasing agreement, so that is a process that has already been vetted that's across the state.

So we were able to avail ourselves of that procurement method, which also uses a process to determine um who's in the marketplace that provides these services.

Okay, and then and so how long of a time frame do we end up usually working with these consultants or when do we look to see if we need to make a shift?

Um so we this is something fairly new that we've been doing in the past um since past two years.

Um we did it a long time ago with um the original bond program back in 2005.

And um, so we are seeing how I mean I don't have we don't have a necessary plan right now or a need to go do a new RFP because of the um services that are being provided, and um we're we're very um pleased with the performance.

Right.

Um if this becomes a model that we continue for years and years, we we might want to consider those options, but we did use the procurement process allowed through the state.

Okay.

And then I guess why that decision and then how do you choose which projects we do the outside physics?

Um so that's good, uh good question because with the um ability of um our consultant group to provide uh a uh different experience levels of um uh project managers, we're able to um um scale or actually uh coordinate someone who may have had experience on an aquatic facility with an aquatics facility.

So they have the ability to help us um marry those skill sets with the type of projects that we have ongoing.

So if we've got someone that has had experience with fire stations in another jurisdiction, then that person is able to um carry work on our fire station and EMS project.

So it's it gives us a little bit more flexibility to have those skills ready and available.

And also um some of these team members that are working on our projects have worked in other jurisdictions, whether in Virginia or other local municipalities or nearby, we have uh the ability to see what other communities are doing and how they deliver their projects as well.

Well, so um and so we kind of like have an idea of the projects that we want to put forth, or do we sort of give them a list if you like do have expertise in these areas?

Well, we kind of you know work work together.

We also look at our existing staff to identify what our existing staff, their um experience level or what is already on their plate, especially as we bring on new projects.

Okay, yeah, that was my question.

Thank you.

So I think if I can understand or if I'm gonna come as part of it is this is the question about like the increase in the two million dollars increase in the contract, big increase, right?

Big increase, right?

From the base of two million.

So I have like bigger picture questions.

So thanks for coming out.

Are you wearing a couple hats now?

General services, those DC has things for being here.

So I I guess I'm concerned about capacity general services long term to manage projects.

You meant you referenced, I think about a hundred active projects, a lot of stuff that's going on now.

And a lot of the a lot of the stuff we hear from Redf is um like where's the like where's the rail trail, satellitely creek and 505 or all projects in your department?

Clearly, these are not easy projects to manage.

Because my question is the memo also references staff turnover difficulty and keeping staff.

So, like what's the I I understand using consultants short term to address some of these some of these caps, but like what's the long-term plan for capacity general services to like manage all these admittedly large number and sometimes complex projects.

Because I can I I imagine consultants per hour are more expensive than having staff.

So, like what's the balance there?

I would say can be tricky because in in some years in the past we've had more staff that we had projects for.

So the ability to scale up and scale down with contract services is is helpful.

I mean, I think as we continue to trend and see where the average number of projects are that we have, what is in our capital fund, and we forecast that 10 year plan, we'll be able to then have a better understanding of how to resource our department.

Carrie, elaborate on that too.

So uh in my 13 years for the city, uh had close relationship with general services for a long time as a direct report department uh in including uh Ms.

Probe's predecessors.

So I I think I would say on behalf of all the departments who have professional services like these project managers, but also engineers and other departments, the street environmental services has a number of project managers, wire management has a number of project managers.

This is uh this is a profession and a professional responsibility where we have seen um a great deal of complexity in both the um the ability to attract and retain and also huge impacts from the triangle market, the private sector and public sector in the tri private market.

So uh we have you know, I I would say that the city has has done a very good job of sort of tracking the various micro and macro factors that impact our ability to attract that type of talent and retain that type of talent and then pivot as necessary when we either see so you know there have been times when when the construction market is super super hot in the triangle, it is very difficult to attract those positions and keep those positions.

Uh has very little to do with our culture, uh it does have to do with our salary and benefits, which rarely can compete with the private sector, even if we were to do compensation studies every 12 months, just because the private sector will flex up in terms of what they pay to attract and retain in a way that is virtually impossible for governments to match.

And so in those cases, and especially in hot markets, I have seen all of those departments take advantage of uh contract uh contract labor with some of those same firms to be able to keep our projects on track.

I would say that a philosophy that I think represents all of those departments and and I'm certain general services is our our primary goal and desire is to have a core of city staff who manage projects to provide that consistency, that knowledge of our business practices, knowledge of the local community, and to rely on that.

And I think to Ms.

Probe's comments, we we feed a lot of data into the decision making about how much to try and do that.

And a lot of that does have to do with project load uh and uh developing that 10-year plan that Ms.

Probe's identified will be another significant data point in that.

But being able to flex up and down as necessary is uh an ability that the private sector does afford us.

And so this uh agenda item represents uh it is not a drastic change to our strategy, but requires this change in contracting level because we are taking dollars uh that we would normally put into salaries.

They are those project dollars that were already forecast, but we have to address this contract.

So this is not this because it's an agenda item today, it looks like a quick pivot.

It's not a quick pivot.

It is very consistent with the strategy that's been delivering projects long term.

But to your key question, I would say our strategy is to try and find where is that steady line in the depths and valleys that that is a reasonable permanent investment for the city and then to augment that when necessary.

And as as I think the council discussion has accurately highlighted, you know, trying to balance the expertise and stability we get from staff with the desire from our residents to deliver projects as quickly as possible.

So I just want to endorse this and do a little bit more to explain to the council that I think we understand the council's desire to handle our needs as best as possible with staff in-house, but that I think this is a reasonable and efficient business practice where necessary to uh to scale up and be able to manage these projects.

So I appreciate that.

So it sounds like we should then expect to see some of these in the future or sort of these contractual project management.

So it's not like we have a plan for staffing up job services dramatically.

This is your plan, right?

To sort of use the staff roughly you have, or just they want to.

Um as a manager just said I think that as we look at our 10-year plan and we see what the value is and the number of projects, it will help inform whether or not we should invest in more internal resources for that long period, or whether or not um continuing to augment is the best practice.

So, for instance, if we saw a fairly consistent project load over 10 years, that might lead to us staffing to a level that we know is going to have consistent load.

However, as you know, we delve into the CIP and we've had you know more complex conversations with the council about some years we'll have more debt capacity and have more new starts.

If if the the pattern looks more like this, you might see occasional every two years us scaling up with these, you know, with this capacity and then scaling back down.

So the more efficient thing to the city is to only invest those resources when we need them rather than staffing to the highest peak and then having excess staff capacity when we don't need it.

So, yes, you may see this more in the future, but it really will depend on the projects you approve, the analysis that we do, uh market factors can can be a big factor as well.

So I I would like you to be open to seeing more of them without me necessarily predicting exactly how often you will see it.

I definitely think it's in and we'd be happy to bring more of a deep dive to council if you if you want to sort of look at how we make these decisions, and and I know uh Director Floors in the room, we you know, talked more in general to uh some of Councilmember Koch's earlier questions about how often do we go back out, what are the various ways we can procure services like this.

Gina mentioned the uh you know the state contract, uh we can piggyback off other governments.

There are times when we can create exceptions to our purchasing rules.

I I think we have very uh very um professional and appropriate methods for making all those decisions, but I realize those are things the council doesn't see very often.

We'd be happy to share those with you.

Councilman Cubby here.

I'm sorry, we've done that.

Councilman Cabrier.

Thank you.

I I really appreciate that, uh, Manager Ferguson in this discussion.

It would be helpful because where we see it is just on budget asks.

And so then we're being asked to for money, and we don't necessarily have all the context.

And so uh I think this goes back to around the budget conversation that we had a little towards the end of uh last fiscal year we were about to adopt.

It's hard to make a decision if we, especially if it's like a tax increase, if we're not real clear on you know what's gonna what's the impact actually going to be for residents.

And if the impact is, yeah, we're gonna get projects delivered a lot more quickly, then it's our job to tell that narrative and say, yeah, you know, this is the decision your council made, and this is why look, you're gonna be able to get all these projects a lot quicker.

Um so I I definitely uh like that idea of a deeper dive ahead of you know January, February uh when we're starting to already have to make decisions.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Councilman is from the major part.

So we've seen an influx of major infrastructure projects, so that's that's one reasoning behind this.

Um we've seen um one thing that's in the staff report is kind of uh uh uh is addressing turnover and talking about the turnover that's happened and we've seen the labor market you know after 2020 and the investment that the city made in workers.

Have we seen stabilizing of uh turnover uh since since we made that investment in city worker wages?

For the project management division here, I would say we we do have um we've not had turnover of the staff that we have now.

There was a time when someone would apply for a position with us, they'd apply for position DOT, and they would be applied for a position to rale.

Whoever got to them first got them.

And we had someone that worked for us for like two weeks and they went to work for DOT.

So that that type of churn has changed and is not currently what we're seeing in the Shell Services Department for project management.

Okay.

But there still is a lot of competition and a lot of need for these um types of resources and design and construction.

Yeah.

I I appreciate this uh this conversation as well, and I know that um consultant can sometimes kind of be perceived as a four-letter word.

Um I say that as a consultant too, uh Carl.

Um but I also I think that you mentioned the skill sets and you know, consults can sometimes be these pollinators that are taking ideas from one place and and bringing them to other places at the same time, they might not have the institutional knowledge, they might come at a higher cost.

So appreciate that.

We've seen the pollinator effect.

One final thought.

Uh to Councilmember Baker's comments, something that you raised some couple of other tools in our toolbox that we're using at uh DCM Wimbush working with our HR department.

We recently just proof the policy to allow um some small flexible uh sign on bonuses for certain types of hard to recruit positions.

I mean, they these are all things that we're looking at all the time is where where do we particularly struggle with certain types of positions and what are we doing to increase our ability to recruit and retain.

Uh that's a new enough effort that I think we can't uh uh predict results yet, but uh I'd like the council to know we're we're trying to be as flexible and responsive to these challenges as possible.

And then the final thing that that just the word consultant might trigger for council, but I'd like to dissuade if I can is that um these staff that are working under this contract uh are seamlessly integrated with the staff in general services.

Uh we at the senior level uh work with them like we work with our own project managers.

So these are not just the folks sitting at a desk far away and not interacting with Durham.

Uh we deeply integrate them with Durham's values.

These are incredibly important positions in terms of delivering projects that are of great value to Durham residents, and so you know, um despite the fact that they have an employment agreement with someone else, uh they are full team members and meet every standard that you expect our staff to meet, and that's the standard that the uh Ms.

Propes holds them to and that her staff holds them to.

So uh with any contractors that that's our goal with these staff in particular, I'm particularly pleased with how General Services has made them uh fully beneficial to the residents of Durham.

Thank you, Mr.

Manager.

Yeah, I want to make sure it's clear like my comments had nothing to do with disparaging consultants.

It's just the question of like we're right, we're a lot of us are consultant example.

Um it's just a question of like positive benefits, right?

And what what's the balance there and how do we know we're getting uh uh the the right outcomes that's more of those questions, so thank you.

Thanks so much.

Um uh DC Pro Slay, good to see you.

Congratulations again good as a four-letter word as well.

Um I I um I want to thank my colleagues um these are the type of questions that ask for the tricks that they should be asking, but I do want to express my um my confidence.

I've I used to have honestly saying things, but I've watched the agility um how conditions are stat.

There's a reason why we can consistently rank one of the best run cities um in the country that I've watched uh I use strategically and judiciously employed uh uh uh consultants uh we needed.

Um yeah, I I have a I have a uh a lawnmower, but I'm not buying an air reading meeting.

Um there are times when I bring folk in and stuff I keep and times I have to bring in folk and I'm just not making that investment in adding to perfect analogy, but I've watched um masterfully watching you folks have masterfully uh done that, so I'm I'm fully confident.

Um I I appreciate Mr.

Manager also your primer as well uh that we case it's inefficient to have a bunch of staff sitting around with no work uh to do.

So I trust you're watching the clock and reading of the green.

One project that was mentioned uh 505.

That's not caught up in status to this five five the decision making rests with us at least on that project.

So I just want to make sure that that that's made clear.

But um, thank you so much for the work and calls.

Thank you for excellent questions on this item.

The final item that was uh pulled as item number 20, I'll yield to council member cooking.

I just had a few really not specif like not super important and specific turbidity questions.

Oh, yeah, he's here.

I was like, okay.

You're good.

Sorry.

How's it going?

Sorry, I'll see you.

I know I was like, oh.

I am so proud of the turbidometer you guys quite all, right?

Uh when PFOS came up a few weeks ago, it was uh it was exciting to see that.

Hi everyone, my name's Jeremy Dirk Carter, I'm the acting um assistant director with this department of water management.

Um thank you for being here.

Uh so I I appreciated all of the like handwritten um logs that we got as part of our agenda items, and I thought that was really cool.

So it was it was fun to see for me like how you all assess these two and and shows.

And I was just wondering if you could speak a little bit to um some of these regulations that we're trying to meet with the turbidity meters and and what our progress is there.

Absolutely.

For that I'm going to turn to Mr.

Thomas Lucas, our uh superintendent at Brownwater Treatment Plan.

Um, I'm Tom Lucas.

Um I'm the superintendent of the groundwater treatment plant, like Dirk said.

Um we're required to so turbidity is a is a measure of of how clear the water is.

And so uh at the bottom of our filters it has to be below uh 0.3 uh NTU limit.

And we have to record that.

Uh we have to measure it constantly.

It has to be recorded every 15 minutes.

And um I cannot tell you off the top of my head what the actual rules that corresponds that that would that we have to uh abate, but that is that's what we that's the uh work we have to do for that.

It's measured every 15 minutes.

And this is consistently or are these are these regulations changing, I guess is my question.

This this particular one has been in place since I want to say 2001, maybe 2002, something like that.

Okay.

So when you were testing these, you were you had already had years of knowing kind of what the outputs were you were looking for and that sort of thing, and wees ma'am.

Uh we the uh the uh ones we have now are old and they are past um obsolescence um or they are ops classes are past.

They're the the company is not supporting them anymore.

So we have to choose a few types.

So we we trialed the two types and uh chose this one.

Okay, thank you.

Those are all my questions.

Thank you.

Uh Colin, anyone else?

All right.

Mr.

Mayor, with your commission off to settle the agenda to hand the uh gap back to you to journ us out or any funny no.

All right.

Um gosh, I've worked really hard today.

Uh um I'm glad I had to uh get us on this agenda, but we are here.

Mr.

Manager, if you can uh settle with that.

Thank you, Mayor Mayor for time and counsel.

I'm pleased to settle the agenda.

What I have for that is on consent items one through twenty-one and items twenty-six through twenty-nine, and on GBA public hearing items twenty-two through twenty-five.

Thank you.

All right.

I thank you all so much.

So is this how it's gonna be every leader meeting?

An hour.

Thank you all so much for adjoining.