Good afternoon, everyone.

Uh thank you for being with us.

Um the mayor is at um I don't think it's mayor's uh at a Bloomberg gathering.

So um I'll be chairing the meeting this afternoon.

Um Madam Clerk, could you please call the roll?

Thank you, Madam Mayor Pro Tem.

Um as we heard Mayor Williams was granted an excused absence on January 5th.

Madam Mayor Proton Caballero.

Here.

Councilmember Baker.

Here.

Councilmember Burris here.

Councilmember Cook.

Here.

Councilmember Copak.

Here.

Councilmember Riss.

Here.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Do I have any colleagues that have announcements?

If you could just raise your hand.

Councilmember Baker.

Yeah, thank you all for everyone who's here.

Um as always, thank you to our city workers who have been working around the clock um with the uh the weather situation.

Um there are a lot of annual reports on uh the agenda today.

You know, many of these were we're not gonna be uh polling.

There's just there's just so many.

But I wanted to uh lift those up and uh give out a big thank you to all of the volunteers that are on our boards and commissions.

You play a vital role in our city and in uh the collaboration between our city and county and uh nonprofits.

Um the planning items, board of adjustment, planning commission, open space and trails, historic preservation, and uh joint city.

You you can watch the joint city county planning committee meeting um took place in the in this room yesterday.

You can watch that on YouTube and uh watch the chairs and liaisons of those elaborate on their annual reports.

Um there was also an introduction to the open space plan, um, which the city is gonna be embarking on.

The city and the county.

Uh so that is uh on the JCCPC meeting from yesterday.

Uh and then the uh Durham Unified Development Ordinance has gone live.

It went live last week.

So I encourage folks to to go on to Engage Durham and check that out and look at the uh zoning map.

There's a slider you can you can use to uh see your existing zoning and then what the proposed zoning would be under the uh new uh UDO.

We're gonna call it the LDC.

So that's that's it for me.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember Kopak.

Uh yes, thank you.

Uh Chair Mayor Pro Tem, thank you, Mr.

Manager.

Um also want to extend my gratitude to all the folks who serve on our boards and commissions uh for their work and for the reports uh provided today.

I enjoyed reading them and seeing uh all that um these uh dedicated volunteers have been up to for the last year and plans for 2026.

I encourage everyone who serves on one of these boards of commissions to stay in close touch with your uh liaisons on the council and where appropriate on the county commission.

And if you are an interested resident in getting more involved, um to check out um you know our our many boards and commissions and their great resources for information and great ways to get involved.

Um also uh happy black history month.

Uh look forward to events throughout the month.

Uh I think the one I see coming up uh soonest is with Hey Type Promise uh CDC and Preservation Durham uh at the James Shepherd Memorial Library at NCCU on Friday.

Uh we built this the profiles of black architects and builders in North Carolina.

So I'm looking forward to that and other events throughout the month, and look forward to a great meeting with my colleagues and thanks everyone for being here.

Thank you, Councilmember Berth.

Good afternoon, everyone.

So I want to associate with much of my colleagues have already said, extending gratitude to our city employees who are on a first line um during the ice storm and also whatever else happened.

I'm over to winter at this point, so I'm counting down to spring.

Looking very, very much forward to it.

Um also um pretty deep appreciation for Councilmember Baker, who invited me yesterday to my capacity to be auction it for a joint city counting planning meeting.

I thoroughly enjoyed all three hours of the meeting.

It was pretty interesting and also very a lot of information, but also um got to hear some of those committee reports.

I also want to send gratitude to our volunteers who serve on commissions and also uplifting the work of the Human Relations Commission.

I am also this um council liaison.

So I opportunity to attend that meeting on Tuesday evening as well.

And once again, happy Black History Month.

I'm proud to be black every single day of my life because Black History is American history, and I look forward to attending all the events um that are going on throughout the city this month.

Thank you.

Uh Councilmember Cook.

Thank you.

Um I will be brief.

Just want to uh associate myself with my comments, my colleagues' comments, and also just state that the white flag shelter option has been extended through Monday the 9th.

So we do have extra shelter available all winter long.

Um that does not change based on weather dependency, but we do have additional shelter options that are available when the temperatures drop below 32 degrees or 35 degrees with um uh wet rain or ice or whatever we're having these days.

So uh just wanted to state that and again uh say an extra thanks to both our staff who've been working tirelessly and our community partners for their work and making sure everybody has a safe place to go.

Um this is something that folks can help with if you do talk to people who are on the street and don't have a place to go.

You can always just let them know.

I feel like I talk to folks all the time, and whenever I tell them that there's extra shelter available, they might not want to go to a congregate shelter on a normal night, but they might be open to something that's particularly cold outside.

Um, something so I always am sure to say, like this is temporary, we only do this when the weather is very extreme, um, and do end up hearing quite a lot of interest and getting a lot of folks to shelter.

So appreciate everybody looking out for their neighbors and looking forward to get a meeting today.

Thank you.

Council Member Wrist.

Thank you, Mayor Pratem.

Good to see you in the in the in the chair's seat there.

Uh good afternoon, colleagues, Mr.

Manager, uh residents and staff, good to see you all.

Um yeah, I want to uh echo the comments from my colleagues, uh thanking the city staff working tirelessly to keep our city safe in this um in these weather events.

Uh, also do want to shout out all the volunteers serving on boards and commissions.

You know, when you sit where we are here, you're just amazed by not only the the folks of the staff who who keep the city running, but the incredible role and the importance of all the volunteers that serve on board and the commissions.

We couldn't do this work without all the the volunteers we have.

It's a uniquely American thing.

This is what the tugfield talked about.

But it's powerful when you sit here and see the just a the number of scale volunteers every day putting time and effort into the city's work.

So we really appreciate that.

Um just a couple of real quick announcements.

Um I do want to give a shout out to Bike Durham for celebrating celebrating Transit Equity Day yesterday, and I think Gregor Williams is held there right in the front.

Yeah, yeah.

Thanks for sponsoring the press conference and the installation of the first of many community-built uh bus stop benches for folks where there's not a uh a bench at bus stops.

So thanks for doing that.

Thanks for the the vision there.

Um thanks for the work that Bike Durham does every day.

Again, volunteers helping out the city.

So appreciate that.

Um also want to thank the Indie Weekly and the Assembly for sponsoring yesterday's Durham Newsmakers conversation about the future of work in Durham.

It was great to see uh Councilmember Kopak there.

Um the the event featured uh the president of Durham Tech, JB Buxton, as well as two other workforce experts, um, talking about the future of work.

You know, Durham County is the main funder of Durham Tech, but they're a key partner of ours, especially with the Office of Academic and Workforce Development.

We're also working with them on housing now as well as the sort of read re-envisioning of Lawson Street down by the community college.

So they're a key player.

We're lucky to have President Um uh Buxton and his leadership.

I also want to mention the Bulls initiative that's being sponsored by the by the um being supported by the county commission, led by Durham Tech, has now trained over 200 local residents to be active or to take careers in the life science sector.

It's probably the the best kept secret in Durham.

So one encourage Durham Tech to keep up the good work um as we build this economy and include and make it an inclusive for all folks who live in Durham.

So thank you all.

Uh thank you very much.

I don't have any announcements, just want to say uh thank you to everything that my colleagues said, and again, thank you to all city workers who got us through.

Um I I was not in town for the last major weather event, and I know that there were lots of folks uh working really hard.

So just want to extend my gratitude.

Uh next up, um, have priority items by the city manager.

Thank you, Madam Mayor Pro Tem, members of council.

Uh the city manager's office has one priority item and then an introduction I'd like to make.

The priority item is this for agenda item number six, that's the Radio Tower site additions and relocation with Motorola Solutions Inc.

Due to time constraints of the bid proposal for this item, which expires uh on February 15th.

Council is being asked to suspend the rules and vote during today's work session to allow the purchase of the radio tower before the bid expires.

We do believe that can uh recognize some cost savings for the city.

So we would ask you to when we go through the uh agenda to pull that item for consideration and adoption today.

Uh and then with the chair's consent, I would like to uh invite up a staff person uh to do an introduction.

I'd like to ask our brand new human resources director, Aaron Miley, to come forward.

Uh we are super excited to have Aaron uh start for the city.

Aaron has now uh started and gone through two winter weather events.

So his first day, uh we were closed to the public.

Um so he got to see how our HR policies do uh work uh and maybe some pain points.

Um but uh we are super excited to have him, and I'd like for him to just say a few words of introduction uh so that you can all join me in in welcoming him to the city.

Thank you.

Good afternoon.

My name is Aaron Miley.

I'm the new human resources director.

Uh very, very excited to be here.

We are adjusting to the winter weather, as Bo said.

Um I'm coming from LSU Health in New Orleans, so it just landed two weeks ago.

Uh been in HR for 20 years in a leadership capacity for 15, and higher education and nonprofits and tech um focused on modernization, modernization of systems, modernization and policy, and I'm very, very excited to be here and get to work with all of you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Aaron.

And as he takes his seat, uh that does lead me to make one more recognition.

Um we have been uh incredibly well served for the last year.

I'm gonna ask you to stand up, Montique.

Uh much to her uh uh I'm sure chagrin.

I want to just publicly thank uh Montique who stepped in uh and served as our very capable human resources leader over the last year.

Uh Montik uh stepped in at a time of of great transition for the city, took us through a reorganization, took us through a budget process, uh, and has just provided excellent stable leadership and great support to me and to DCM Wimbush and to the whole organization.

So uh Monteak uh is returning, I think, uh to gladly to her role as the assistant uh director in HR.

So we are fortunate that she remains on our team, but I wanted to publicly thank her for her tremendous leadership over the last year.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Welcome and thank you so much for your service.

Um Madam Attorney Good afternoon, Madam Mayor Pratem, members of the council.

It's good to see you.

Uh the city attorney's office has no priority items today.

No closed sessions.

Thank you.

I'm sorry.

So we need to ask for an excuse absence for February the 19th since we won't be at the work session.

Oh, okay.

Thank you.

We'll we'll do that after the priority items.

Thank you.

Um Madam Clerk.

Thank you, Madam Mayor Pro Tem.

Um the city clerk's office has their board and committee report, and there's one nomination to the Affordable Housing Implementation Committee.

The nominee is Yuki Tema, and that's the end of my report today.

Thank you so much.

Uh Councilmember Burris has asked for an excuse absence on February 19th.

If I'm okay, and so um would love to um get a motion.

I see a motion from Councilmember Copec and a second from uh Councilmember Rist.

All in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed?

Thank you.

The motion passes unanimously.

Thank you for um that I was trying to include myself on the prior, but I I would also like to request uh excuse absence on the same date, February 19th.

Okay, uh thank you.

Um need a motion.

Okay, uh motion from Councilmember Cook, second from Councilmember Baker.

All in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed?

Okay, motion uh carries unanimously for a excused absence for councilmember Copec also on Thursday, February 19th.

Um next step.

I have um citizens or resident matters.

Um I have um Ms.

Victoria Peterson is signed up.

You've read the consent agenda and then back to button.

Thank you.

Um I'm gonna go ahead and read consent agenda, and we are pulling number six when we get to it.

Um administrative consent items under the city clerk's office, the affordable housing implementation committee appointment under departmental items audit services department, um audit services oversight committee calendar year 2025 annual report under the city attorney's office.

Uh first amendment to FY26 grant agreement for an immigrant legal assistance program.

I have a uh resident who's pulled that.

Um's office number four, uh Durham Convention and Visitors Bureau DBA Discover Durham 2025 annual report under community safety.

Uh item number five, 2025 Home of Services Advisory Committee Annual Report.

Under emergency communications department number six, radio tower site additions and relocation with Motorola Solutions Inc.

We've been asked to suspend the rules and vote.

Uh so could I please get a motion to suspend the rules?

So moved.

Uh moved by councilmember Baker, seconded by Councilmember Rist.

Um all in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed?

Okay, motion carries, and now uh I need a motion to authorize the city manager to negotiate and execute a contract with Motorola Solutions Inc.

to complete the capital improvement project CB 032 and the amount not to exceed 7,716,701 dollars and 30 cents.

So moved.

Second, uh moved by councilmember baker, seconded by councilmember cook.

All in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed?

Okay, and then the second one is to adopt a budget ordinance amending the FY 2025-2026 City of Durham budget ordinance, the same being ordinance number one six five five five for the purpose of adding additional funding to the radio tower project CB032.

So moved.

Second.

Uh moved by councilmember Baker, seconded by councilmember wrist.

All in favor, aye.

Any opposed?

Okay, thank you.

Thank you very much.

Absolutely.

Um under general services department item number seven, junction road paratransit facility and phase street transportation renovation professional design services.

Uh I would like to pull that.

Uh under item eight, condemnation action to obtain one temporary construction easement at 3835 guest road for the Horton Road Pedestrian Improvement Project.

Item number nine, Durham City County Environmental Affairs Board 2025 Annual Report.

Item number 10, Durham Convention Center Authority Board 2025 Annual Report.

Item number 11, Durham Performing Arts Center Oversight Committee 2025 Annual Report.

Item number 12 Durham Cultural Advisory Board 2025 Annual Report.

Okay.

Under Housing and Neighborhood Services Department.

Item number 13, fiscal year 2025 Housing Appeals Board Annual Report.

Item number 14, Human Relations Commission 2025 Annual Report.

Item number 15, 2025 Citizen Advisory Committee Annual Report.

Under Office of Economic and Workforce Development, Item Number 16, 2025 Durham Workforce Development Annual Report.

Under Planning and Development Department, Number 17, 2025 Board of Adjustment Annual Report.

Number 18, Item Number 18, 2025, Durham Open Space and Trails Commission DOST Annual Report.

Item number 19, 2025 Historic Preservation Commission Commission CLG Annual Report.

Item number 20, 2025, Durham Planning Commission Annual Report.

Under Transportation Department.

Item number 21, Second Amendment to Contract Number 20316, supplemental agreement number two to master agreement, number 18908 with Kimley Horn and Associates Inc.

for design of a roundabout at Maureen Road and American Drive.

Item number 23, purchase contract for Go Durham Battery Electric Bus Charging Equipment.

Under Water Management Department, item number 24, contract for professional and engineering services for HDR Engineering Inc.

of the Carolinas for Outfall and Transmission Main Project Management.

And that is all I have under consent.

And then we have a presentation planning and development department.

And then under planning and development department, item number 27, consolidated annexation, Lee Village Center, and under Citizens Matters today.

I also have item number 28, Zach Chekowski, and a few other folks, I think.

Um I just have one online and then one person.

Oh, and I also have uh individual signed up under item number five.

Resident pulled that agenda item.

Member 10, what the um I know that the we had that zoning case delayed last meeting until like to this next meeting, right?

Do we need to add that and settle it?

How does that get on the agenda?

I'm assuming staff will add that to the agenda.

It's not listed under today's, and I preloaded my agenda right before this meeting.

We'll make sure it's added.

Okay, so we will have an additional um an additional public hearing on what is it, the 19th Creekside on February 19th.

That's not listed here, but it will be.

Uh thank you.

Um, so I think first up, um, I have Ms.

Peterson here in person under public comment.

I do not see her at this time, so we will return to that item if necessary.

And then I also have online Naomi Burke.

If we could make that individual hearable.

Hello, good afternoon.

You have three minutes.

Okay, same thing.

If they, Madam Clerk, if they do pop up, just let us know.

Those are the two folks I have uh signed up.

Okay, and thank you.

Um Mr.

or uh Zach Chikowski, and I apologize if I've said your name incorrectly.

Good afternoon.

There's a button there, I think that you'll see that you can you got it?

Okay, good afternoon.

Thanks so much for being with us.

Uh you have three minutes.

Good afternoon.

Uh Zach Tchakowski at 603 Eastway Avenue.

Thank you all so much for giving the opportunity to speak today.

Um I'm a proud public court tennis player representing the Eno Community Tennis Association and our more than 4,000 participants.

Uh America has a rich public court tennis history from Jimmy Connors to the Williams sisters, and two-thirds of all tennis in the United States is played on public courts.

Durham has its own rich tennis history, one of many examples, legends of the game, Arthur Ash and Althea Gibson played down the road at the former Algonquin Club, and that legacy still matters today.

Tennis delivers real, measurable benefits, and just a few hours on the court each week can cut heart disease risk by more than 50%.

Long-term studies show tennis players live nearly 10 years longer than nonplayers.

It's a full body workout that people can play well into old age.

And for young people, uh tennis is about much more than a racket.

It teaches discipline, confidence, and mentorship.

Qualities of carry into the classroom and beyond.

It's a tough job.

Uh I think you all know about the challenges the soil present and then and many other ones.

And I want to thank and acknowledge the amazing DPR team in particular for their hard work and all that they do for our city.

But many of our public courts need repair, power washing, or resurfacing.

Durham has at least 59 public tennis courts, yet fewer than half currently meet USDA standards.

And that gap costs us.

It means Durham is unable to host USTA state and sectional championships, leaving real revenue on the table for both the city and the Eno CTA.

Court rentals and league play also generate steady revenue because of the thousands of players participating in USDA and Eno CTA programming.

We have the courts and the players to compete for these events.

We simply need to maintain what we have.

Greensboro, Winston-Salem, Kerry, Lake Norman, and Wilmington have all hosted in recent years and reap the economic benefits.

And the timing of this matters.

With 264 teams and more than 3,000 players participating in Durham, our highest numbers ever.

Courts at Whipperwill, Elmyra, and Rockquarry Park are in particular need of power washing right now.

The Eno CTA respectfully asked the city to move with urgency to maintain these courts, invest further in regular upkeep, and establish a consistent plan to keep them safe, playable, and something we can all be proud of.

A little power washing goes a long way, and more regular maintenance ultimately saves money.

We'd like to also extend an open invitation to visit courts with us when your schedule allows.

Thank you so much for your time for your service and for your consideration.

Thank you so much.

That's all I have under um public comment.

And so uh next up I have uh a couple pulled items.

Um first up three.

Yeah, I have uh I have two pulled by uh residents.

So the first one I have is number three.

Um, and that is item uh first amendment to FY26 grant agreement for an immigrant legal assistance program.

Again, um Ms.

Peterson is signed up for that item, and I I do not see her at this time.

We will return to it if needed.

Um next up is item number five, 2025 homeless services advisory committee annual report.

Again, I have Ms.

Peterson registered to that the item she pulled.

That's me.

Um the next item I have is item number seven, and I pulled that.

Good afternoon, Sean Haslip, project manager with General Services, working with Turn Townsman Heary.

Um I'm the resource person for this item and uh happy to speak to any questions you may have.

Um any programmatic notes with regards to transportation.

I will invite Sean Egan to come up as the director of transportation to speak to those considerations that have been formed for these projects and where we are today.

Thank you.

And I also have a resident who pulled this item.

Um so um trying to think of the order here.

So maybe we're gonna just let questions go and then I'll call you, Mr.

Williams.

Okay, thank you.

Um I don't actually have any questions for you.

I do have questions for Director Egan.

Okay, thank you.

Sure.

Sean Egan, transportation director.

Good afternoon.

Thank you so much.

So just out of curiosity, I know that this design uh services project is is really critical to the success of BRT in the region.

And so curious to know, I my understanding is that it's not um that the transit the county transit plan doesn't really fully fund that, and that there's going to ultimately be a um a gap, a finance gap.

Okay.

So uh based on the funding that's already been approved, we have enough to get us through uh the first phases of design work.

So that's advanced planning activities, uh really understanding all the space needs and layouts um as well as some schematic design activities.

Uh so we've procured the full uh package of construction services, but we've broken it up into two pieces based on available funding.

Uh so we will it'll take about 10 months for us to get through this first phase of activities.

Uh in the meantime, we'll continue to work with our partners at uh Durham County, Triangle West TPO, and Go Triangle.

I have the county uh transportation director, Ellen Beckman here if there are specific questions from Durham County, but um I can report that we had um a very good discussion with the city and county managers earlier this week, uh and there was agreement uh at the staff level to support full funding for uh all of the design activities.

So to get us through a hundred percent design uh during the course of that process, we will uh be getting detailed cost estimates for construction.

So we'll have a much clearer picture uh about what the true construction funding need for this project will be.

Uh and we also know from experience with our Durham station project that when we apply for federal grant funding with a schematic design already completed, it really shows the federal government uh strong project readiness uh and it increases the competitiveness of a grant application.

So once we have that schematic done at the first phase that's uh on the agenda today, uh that will position us to be uh very competitive uh for federal grants in addition to uh funding we'll be uh seeking the thank you.

Go ahead, Councilmember Rust.

Thanks, Mr.

Tem.

Thanks, Mr.

Egan.

So just to confirm, so the the item before us is I think a 2.2 million dollar contract.

So that that money we have, right?

Can you confirm what's the full cost of the full 100% design?

So it's gonna be about 15 million for all of the pre-construction activities.

Um so uh we have about five and a half uh million.

We have about five million today, so we will need another 10, about 10 and a half to get through all of the pre-construction so that we're ready uh to award a construction bid.

Uh so what we've requested in the uh FY27 County Transit Work Program is an additional 10.5 million so that uh we'll be fully funding all those pre-construction activities.

It's design but also other services.

Yeah.

And that was the subject of the conversation with the with the county and city manager.

Correct.

Great.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um we'll see as we move forward, we'll continue to see as we progress in front of council.

Okay.

Yes.

So uh if we are able to secure the funding in the FI27 county work program, that would set us up to come back in the fall uh of 2026 with an amendment to the the contract that's before you today.

Uh and then that amendment would include those 100% design services thank you.

And then just quickly, I I can't remember if the full council has gotten the Durham County BRT vision plan update presentation.

I was just curious.

I know that we we see it at the TPO and Go Triangle.

So it was it was attached in the package here.

Um the um county staff has offered to provide that uh presentation if you think it would be of interest.

We can work to get that scheduled.

I know the mayor sees it on the Go Triangle board.

Yeah, you and Councilmember Riss see it uh at the TPO.

Thank you.

Um just out of curiosity, would colleagues be interested in getting that update from county staff.

Would it be helpful?

For those of you, yeah, okay.

So I think that would be really helpful for those of us um if you're not on the TPO or on Go Triangle, you're not often as aware of what's happening in the transit world.

And so I think it would be great for all seven of us to see what's happening.

So that's a request.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

Oh, and then go ahead, Councilmember Russ.

Thank you.

Just want the I know we're talking about the logistics of money, but just to say, like, this is really important work.

So thank you for bringing this forward.

Thanks to the county for being a partner with this.

This is critical as we think about expanding our ferry buses, but also BRT.

So appreciate that.

Thank you.

And then um uh Mr.

Williams, you you did sign up for comment on this.

Thank you, Director Egan.

How do you all?

I'm Gregory Williams, uh resident and representative of the community organization, Bike Durham.

Um we are in the first time.

Good afternoon.

Thank you so much, Madam Clerk.

Could you put three minutes on the thank you?

Thank you.

Thank you for being with us.

You have three minutes.

Okay.

Um we are in full support of the funding for this project.

Um it's no secret that we are fully supportive of increases to both service and reliability with GoDurum.

I attended the uh Go Durham um every other monthly meeting yesterday, and uh listened to Director Egan talk about the um new um completely electric buses that are being added to the fleet, and as we prepare for um increased reliability, especially as we saw with these recent weather events as we prepare for the BRT and the improvements that are coming to our bus infrastructure, even um as I'm as small or as big as the redesign for Roxboro and Mangum and what that might do to the transit routes that depend on those corridors.

Um having the facilities to maintain our bus infrastructure is huge, and so um we would really urge the city council to support the funding for that.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for being here with us.

Uh the next pulled item I have is item number 23, and I think Councilmember Cook pulled that.

Again, Sean Egan for transportation.

Thank you, Mayor Protect.

Council members.

I should have stayed up.

Um I thought there was one in between.

I I don't want this to be taken in a way that I am not excited about this item because I am excited about this item, but I thought that there was some conversation that we were not moving forward as rapidly with um electric buses because of pricing.

And I'm just wondering, I didn't really see any kind of discussion about that in this item, and I was hoping you could speak to it.

Sure.

Um so uh we had a presentation at the City Council budget retreat in February of 2025, uh, where we talked about uh among other things, the shift in the federal funding landscape for uh transit and transportation, uh and how everything that we were hearing at the time was that the new administration would be moving away from uh funding support for zero emissions transit.

Uh so we were very successful in the previous administration uh in securing federal grants.

We also worked with the um North Carolina Department of Environmental Quality uh to secure funding through the Volkswagen uh emissions settlement.

Uh and so we had already at that point lined up the funding to purchase 14 electric buses along with uh expansion funding that was made available through the Durham County transit plan.

So the buses that are uh arriving, some of them are already in service.

We've got two more uh on the way here.

Uh but uh those buses were all ordered about two years ago.

Uh so we're seeing somewhere in the in the range of 24 months from the time that we place an order to uh when the buses are delivered here in Durham.

Uh so at the time that um we had that discussion at the budget retreat last February, those that order had already been placed.

Uh so what we talked about was for future orders, will we be um will we be continuing to electrify or um will we uh hold off on further electrification?

So this will take us to about close to a third of our fleet uh will be electric.

So it's it's a very high um percentage of our fleet that's electric.

Uh so uh but the electrics cost us about double what um a diesel bus costs.

And without that support that we were previously able to secure from the federal government, uh it makes it financially very difficult uh to pay that 2x uh upfront cost.

So what we're doing now is we're upgrading all of our uh charging infrastructure.

Uh the new buses have more energy and battery power on board, but that means that we need uh higher capacity charging equipment to be able to run them.

And so that's what we're doing is uh is installing the um the best available high capacity charging equipment so that we can make uh the best use of the uh the new buses that uh have just arrived, as well as uh the eight that we previously purchased.

So we'll have a total of 22 uh battery electric buses uh I expect by the end of this month in service.

Okay, thank you.

That is extremely helpful on the timeline.

And and you might have just touched on it a little bit, but the finite you're not looking at it, but the financial impact piece that's in our memo.

Um I don't understand it.

Um it's got federal city total, um, and then it's broken down by objectives and projects, I would imagine and ORG, which I think is code, yeah.

Okay.

Um, so we have a lot, we're combining, yeah, um, a mix of federal grant funds as well as some city matching funds as well as some funding from the Durham County transit plan.

So when we requested the six uh expansion vehicles from the Durham County Transit Plan, we asked for the cost of the vehicles themselves uh as well as the charging equipment that goes with them.

So what we're doing now is uh we're taking those funds that were uh requested and awarded for the charging equipment for six of the 14, and we're we're adding that in along with our federal funds and city funds.

Okay, so this chart in it somewhere the things are broken down, not necessarily by type, they potentially might be broken down even by like six buses versus another set of buses.

So yeah, the funding um is uh is allocated on a uh per station basis for the six.

Uh the rest of the funding uh we uh secure we've used um local and federal funds to make up the balance.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember Baker.

Yeah, just one follow-up question.

Um you mentioned um, and I think this came up in our our February conversation too.

You mentioned that the upfront cost of a battery-powered electric bus is about double a diesel bus, um, but we were still learning about kind of long-term maintenance costs of between those.

Do we have we learned any more since then?

Uh we've definitely seen um lower uh maintenance costs per mile uh for the electric buses than we've seen for the diesel or certainly the hybrid buses in our fleet.

The hybrid buses have the highest maintenance costs.

Keeping the two different propulsion systems going proves uh you do you double your chances of something failing.

Uh and so we've had a lot of challenges keeping uh the hybrid buses in service.

So we're in the process of phasing those out, uh, and we'll be but the the lowest cost that we're seeing overall um is for the battery electric buses.

We had a good meeting with our um contractor earlier this week, and we talked about this issue.

So one of the examples that we talked through was uh every 6,000 miles, we have to do a preventive maintenance inspection.

Uh so typically that would involve things like oil changes and oil filters.

Um with a battery electric bus, there is no oil to change, there's no oil filter, it doesn't have the consumables that you have with uh a traditional diesel or hybrid diesel electric bus.

So while it takes about six hours to complete a preventive maintenance inspection on a diesel bus, uh we're seeing about half that time is required for the battery electric buses.

So uh those uh savings uh are uh going to continue to pay uh dividends for us.

Uh I would say the the big question is traditionally we do uh major repower campaigns about every five years on the diesel buses where we replace the engine and transmission.

So when we hit the five-year mark or six or seven-year mark, uh, will there need to be a corresponding uh major capital investment in the battery electric buses?

Uh the technology has been evolving, so uh it's uh it remains to be seen.

Uh but what what we are seeing are uh significant savings in that uh maintenance cost per mile uh and uh we can get through more of those preventive maintenance inspections uh more quickly and get those buses out of the shop and back out on the road.

Councilmember Rison and Council Member Kopak.

Mr.

Egan, can you just remind me so you said by the end of the month we'll have about half our buses or a third?

A third and a third.

And so what's the goal long term in terms of electric buses?

What we said prior to last February was that we uh uh wanted to get to 100%.

I think long term we still want to get to 100%.

Um I do think we would benefit from uh having more experience uh with how these operate in service uh and uh with some of the issues like the midlife, uh like what kind of investment uh would we need uh to get to the full useful life of the bus.

I think it would be beneficial to have some of that experience uh on our own as well as seeing what our peers are doing.

Um so for the moment, based on the direction uh we received last year at the February retreat, um our uh our next round of bus purchases would be diesel buses, uh, and then we'll come back uh and revisit it.

Uh and we'll also keep a close eye on the federal landscape to see if there's a change uh in federal policy around uh electric buses.

So say this is the goal, the target's been pushed out, so maybe I don't have it.

Yeah.

Uh I I don't have a timeline.

It will depend on things like uh what happens in the presidential election in 2028.

I wish I had a crystal ball and um could say what will happen in that election or in 2032.

Um but those are those factors and that federal policy um is going to be uh a critical factor in uh how long it'll take us to reach that 100% goal.

Yeah, thanks.

Look forward to continuing the conversation, so I appreciate it.

Thank you.

Councilmember Kopek?

Yes, thank you, Mayor Prozam.

Um thank you, Director Egan.

I'm curious too if you've done modeling around the per mile of uh fuel costs and potential uh savings there of electric versus versus diesel.

Um we have started that process, but I don't have any results to share yet.

I'm uh very also very interested in the fuel cost uh per mile analysis.

Uh one of the challenges we have is uh so we have two buses that we bought in 2021, two that are six that went into service in 2023, uh, and then we have uh the 14 that we bought that are going into service now, and we're seeing kind of different um different profiles for those.

So I I think before reporting out, I would really like to see some significant experience with the newest arrival buses.

Uh the uh the expectation is that there will be substantial savings, but I'd really like to see it uh in our fleet uh before uh reporting out about that.

But um our our folks are are looking into that, uh, but we're we're also really focused on making sure that uh we're deploying and getting the best value out of uh the new buses just arriving.

Okay.

Yeah, and I appreciate the local analysis.

I think that will give us really good data based on the the actual buses that we have.

I think we can also look to other communities too, uh, and I'm sure that was something you took into account when pursuing this this path in the first place.

Yeah, we actually are part of what's called the Zero Emissions Bus Resource Alliance.

So it's a group of transit agencies across North America who are all operating zero emissions fleets.

And so we share our data with our peers, uh, and then we use that same system uh where we can learn about uh other cities who have the same exact equipment.

Are we getting uh better mileage, better range, uh better performance, or worse?

What are they doing that we could learn from?

Um so it's a really uh beneficial uh peer exchange.

Yeah.

That's great.

That's exciting to hear about.

And of course, it's harder to quantify the the uh human health benefits, right, of this transition and also uh from a broader standpoint the climate impacts and the effect that it has on all of us.

Uh and I I I actually just yesterday uh finished reading Bill McHibbins Here Comes the Sun, and it's just a reminder that you know the solutions we need uh are already available.

And of course I understand we have to make decisions at looking at that stacking of uh of resources from the local, state, and federal level.

And uh I want just to commend you and your team and DCM Probst and her team and others for the work you've done to make sure we've taken advantage uh of the resources that are there, because I know that that is work to do that.

Uh and so I'm really proud that we've gotten to this this 33 percent so far uh and excited and and hopeful about what we can do in the future, uh, understanding that you know we do face some some headwinds on it right now.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Okay, thank you so much.

Um I'm gonna take us back um to the pulled items from earlier.

Um I have item number three.

I have a resident who's pulled that.

Ms.

Peterson, you're signed up to speak on item number three.

Okay, thank you.

Welcome, you have three minutes.

I hope everyone is doing well.

I would like to just ask uh the person who is in charge of this grant.

Are they here?

I I was hoping that they were going to be doing a presentation uh about how these dollars are being spent.

Also, are you all are you adding 200 and some thousand dollars to the grant, or have you already spent 450,000 dollars of the grant?

When you use the word immigration, which I'm sure we all know that we're having some issues around the country about immigrants, but here in this city, I'm hoping that these dollars are being used for persons who are legally allowed to be here, but because of their green card or something happened that their immigration papers are being challenged.

I hope these are the persons that we're gonna be working with, like the Somalias, uh Uganda, uh some uh uh uh South Africa.

Uh we have a lot of folks in this community who are from who are from um I'm sorry, from different countries.

The light is really bothering my eyes real bad, excuse me.

Um the 450,000 dollars, are those dollars?

Have they all been used already?

And you want to add an additional 200,000?

This is not clear.

I don't think that this should go forward until we get some definite answers.

Who have they been working with?

Who have they been helping?

My understanding, North Carolina's central, and I don't want to get anybody in trouble, but that's the the name of the law school that my understanding is in involved with this grant.

If that is true, then Central, the law school should have been mentioned in this grant, and it's not.

Also, is this a federal grant?

Are these state dollars that's coming down?

So we need to get some clarity on these dollars here.

Who exactly is this organization or this individual?

Who are they working with?

And is North Carolina Central Law School are they involved with working with the immigrants?

And I'm hoping if you want to put a stop, I'm hoping that the person is here that can answer this because I'm asking the city not to send this forward until these questions are answered.

And what is the exact dollar amount that is still available on this grant?

And I don't want to repeat myself.

Are these federal funds that we're speaking about?

Or are these local city tax dollars?

I know.

And thank you.

Attorney Hernandez is here.

Ma'am, I can.

Who's here?

Attorney Hernandez is here.

Thank you, Ms.

Peterson.

Okay.

So they're gonna say, you can take a seat, ma'am.

Thank you.

Good afternoon, attorney Hernandez with the city attorney's office.

Would you like me to address the Sure.

Sure.

Okay.

Uh so these are city dollars.

Uh the funds have not been spent yet.

This is a result of this council uh requesting from staff to uh have carryover funds from FY25 transferred to this FY26 grant.

Um and so um from my understanding, I don't believe Central's Law School is involved in the program.

This is in-house to Justice Matters, which is a nonprofit organization.

Um again, they're city dollars.

I believe this is for immigrant uh legal defense and assistance for those in removal proceedings.

Thank you.

Do any of my colleagues have any questions?

Go ahead, Councilmember Rist.

Thank you, ma'am.

Thank you, Mr.

Hennez for the for the clarification there.

Yeah.

Given what's happening in our country, I could not be prouder that we are using local tax dollars to increase our support for immigrants facing immigration charges.

So thank you so much.

Thank you.

That's all.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Um next up I have item number five.

Ms.

Peterson, you also pulled uh the 2025 Homeless Services Advisory Committee annual report.

Thank you.

Good afternoon.

You have three minutes.

Thank you.

Uh another I thought here, when you use the word report, somebody is supposed to come in and give a report.

So I'm hoping that that person is also here to give a report.

How many persons are considered homeless as the as the various organizations go out into the community over the last several months?

Uh Fayville Street, Austin Avenue, uh being bombarded by so many homeless folks on private property, church, a lot of it, church properties, businesses, uh burning fire.

I would like to know from this group, are they going around in the community at the various camps at the various homeless camps?

I think there's a large one also on um Austin Avenue before you get to Gear Street, uh, if you leave in Central, down on your right, before you get to Dear uh Gear Street, huge homeless shelter.

I mean, huge camp.

So my question, and I guess my concern is I would like the city uh to donate the old police department, to donate the old police department.

If we're going to be helping immigrants, the legals and the illegals, and all these other folks and the homeless folks, these people do not have finances and they do not have monies to pay $200 or $300 for hotels when they have crises going on in their communities and in their family.

I would like to really hear a report, a written report, and I would like to see the report that the other gentleman has about how many people in Durham are considered homeless and how many of them are living on the streets, and how many camps, homeless camps, are in Durham, because quite a few were down here on um Fairville Street before you get to 147 with fires burning in the middle of the night trying to get warm and trying to keep warm.

I'm sitting here numerous times hearing you folks talk about the various issues that are going on in our community.

I would like to know how many of you over the last month have actually gone out and stayed at a homeless camp in the winter months in the coal.

You speak about so many other different things, but we have a crisis going on in this community with people living on the streets, and many of those individuals look like me.

And I have a real problem with that.

We need to do better, and we can do better.

Thank you.

And thank you.

And I'd like to get the report.

Ms.

Peterson, the report is attached.

You asked a few questions.

I think there are staff here who can ask answer some of those questions, but the report is already attached in the in the um on the item, but we do have someone here from um community safety.

Go ahead.

Ms.

Peterson, I need you to sit down, please.

Thank you.

Yeah, I I know.

You don't want to tell me, sweetie.

I know.

I just want to get a copy of the report.

Thank you, everybody.

Um, and East Fance Community Safety Department.

Um Thank you, Ms.

Peterson, for your comments and your questions.

And I'm happy to um further to go into further detail uh with you personally if you'd like after this.

Um, you know, the the first question was around numbers on homelessness.

I do want to note that our best numbers on homelessness indicate that about 1,400 people right now in Durham are experiencing homelessness.

That number includes about 650 households that are unsheltered, experiencing unsheltered homelessness.

And that those 650 households also include obviously families with children, people who are medically vulnerable, youth and young adults, et cetera.

I do want to make sure that uh the city council knows and that Ms.

Peterson, you know, and that everybody in the public knows that there is a public-facing dashboard that we just released that gives numbers on homelessness.

Um that was uh debuted at the community conversations event, which occurred uh about a week ago with housing for New Hope.

Um and I'm happy to send that link out.

That dashboard includes breakdowns by sub-population so that folks can see that.

It also includes trends over time.

One particularly important chart that it includes, and that I would ask everybody to pay attention to is at the bottom there's a chart of inflow versus outflow.

So this is the number of people that are coming into homelessness every month and the number of people that are exiting homelessness every month.

That's the key chart.

The reason that's the key chart is obviously when you have a higher inflow than outflow, your homelessness population is growing.

When you have a higher outflow than inflow, you're reducing those numbers.

So our major, major, major um goal, North Star goal, is to reduce those numbers month over month over month until we know that we can consistently reduce those numbers down to down to functional zero in homelessness, which means that we'd have the capacity to house as many people every month that are coming into homelessness and get back that number back down to zero.

So that's on the on the on the data and I will note that our data strategy includes now pulling data from our homeless management information system, and that is the system that all of our homelessness providers um add or use, excuse me, every day.

And so those are the most accurate, up-to-date numbers that we can possibly have.

Um, and that's a core part of our strategy, making sure that the data is solid.

Um we're continuing to iterate on that, continuing to refine our practices there to make sure our quality there is correct.

Um in addition to the report that was part of of this um particular city council meeting.

There are also several learning reports that came out in HSAC.

Um, the Home Services Advisory Committee, and obviously that's a that's a public committee.

So those reports are public.

There are learning reports on the point-in-time count, on service delivery, on um data generally, and on any number of of other matters, including housing inventory, et cetera, et cetera, that is available to the homelessness system.

There are also questions around um our engagement with uh with people who are experiencing homelessness.

The community safety department operates a street outreach team.

That team works directly with people who are experiencing unsheltered homelessness.

We have worked at this point over the last six or seven months, and I can look up the exact numbers for folks.

I'm sorry that I don't have them in front of me, but between 150 and 200 people who are experiencing homelessness and have been able to place um uh about 15 to 20 of those folks into some form of housing.

Um I I would like to note there are also other teams that are reaching out directly to people who are experiencing homelessness, including um veteran services and uh and unite, which is a street medicine program.

Um and so there is an outreach effort.

Those programs are in close touch.

Um, and so there is a level of coordination that's occurring there where for folks who are medically vulnerable, it's often street medicine that takes those folks for folks who are veterans, it's often veteran services who are channeling those folks too.

Uh the final thing I want to note is that um, you know, over the last and and I'm not gonna spend much time on this uh because you all received a debrief on it last week, I believe.

Um, but uh the winter efforts that occurred um over the two storms uh to make sure that we got as many people inside as we possibly could.

Um at final count, it it's we were able to get more than 200 people inside who otherwise would not have been despite those efforts.

Uh excuse me, without those efforts, forgive me, I'm a little tired.

It's been a long few weeks.

Um but uh and so we feel really proud of that.

And I also want to name that many of the partners that I just named here, plus many more contributed to that.

Um that those contributions not only made that possible, but I think demonstrated broadly what is possible in Durham in the homelessness space when we have that kind of collaboration.

Um the final thing, uh Ms.

Peterson, and for you know, the City Council obviously knows this, is that next week there will be a presentation on the homelessness strategic framework, um, which will outline many of our approaches um that have been sourced not only from our community but from national best practice and from people with lived experience on how we can further attend to homelessness and reduce homelessness in Durham.

Thank you, Councilmember Rist.

I see your hand.

Does anyone else have any questions or comments on this item?

Okay.

Um Councilmember Riss and then Councilmember Baker.

Thanks, Mr.

Vance, first of all, for the additional data uh to clarify what's in the report that we've received.

I also appreciate the the uh note about the dashboard, which I just pulled up.

It's a great resource.

I just have a question related in part of the data, and that is I'm trying to recall.

I know we've I know the point in time count has been a regular part of the homeless sort of system and and sort of um sort of understand that that that that in Durham.

I I seem to uh recall I we got an email that we're not doing a point in time count this year.

Can you please explain what the thinking is there?

Um absolutely.

Thank you for thank you for raising that.

Uh so uh a quick little background, and I'm sorry to to get uh into this level of detail on it, but because the answer to your question is is is sort of there's two point in time counts that uh that usually occur.

One is for the population that is homeless but is in some form of shelter, and then the other is for folks who are unsheltered.

And those typically occur on the same night by HUD um guidelines or by HUD regulations.

Uh the count for folks who are in shelter has to occur every year, where the count for folks who are unsheltered uh can occur every other year.

And so this was a year where it did not need to occur.

So we did do the pit count for folks who are sheltered, and then the pit count for folks who are unsheltered.

We uh, and this came through policy and planning in the homeless services advisory committee, uh, a subcommittee of the homeless services advisory committee.

The choice was made to not do the unsheltered count and use this opportunity as a moment in which we can think really deeply together around our data strategy and around our community engagement.

So we wanted to make sure to have that community conversations moment and then draw people into white flag efforts, inclusive of the winter shelter, in which we did have, you know, um a couple dozen folks, uh, and I will get you the exact number, but a couple dozen volunteers who were who were part of that effort.

Um, and then explain to people, you know, where we were moving in terms of the strategic framework.

We also wanted to make sure to lift up some of these new numbers.

The pit count lays an incredible foundation for us and shows trend over time really well.

Housing for New Hope has just done such an exceptional job in holding that down.

And part of this moment was then to think more deeply about well, how can we layer on data that is real time, that is more accurate, and that um and that we can refresh every so often and really disaggregate into our subgroups, really disaggregate um into any number of different elements, including uh demographic elements, so that we know how to target our services.

Um, so that's why that decision was mine.

I appreciate that.

Look forward to the next pit count.

I know a lot of folks in the council have been involved in those.

It's a it's an important way that community can be involved in the sort of understanding this challenge in Durham and supporting you all in your work.

So thank you.

Absolutely, thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember Baker.

Just want to say thank you.

Um, this is um an issue that I know that this council has cared very deeply about.

Um, there are a lot of individuals uh and organizations in our community that have put in really hard work for a very long time.

And I also know that at this point last year, um, there was a feeling that someone needed to step up and provide some additional leadership and coordination between all the different all the different people that do so much work um every single day.

And I think that that call to lay a foundation, a stronger foundation for uh better work in this area has had has happened and is moving forward.

Um I really appreciate the work that you have been doing over the past couple weeks as well as just in general.

Um I'm really excited about this work that is happening and really excited and looking forward to the presentation next week.

So again, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any other one?

Any other comments, questions, colleagues?

Okay.

Thank you so much.

Thank you, everybody.

Um that's it for polled uh agenda items.

I think we have um I'm gonna just pause and see if we have the person signed up for public comment online, Madam Clerk.

They're there.

Madam Pro Tem, they're not responding.

Okay.

Thank you.

And then um I have uh uh Ms.

Peterson again signed up for just general public comment.

And after she's done, then we'll move to our presentation.

Good afternoon again.

You have three minutes, Ms.

Peterson.

I just had you signed up as for general public comment.

Well, I want to piggyback a little bit on what happened the other day uh about uh uh the police uh dollars that they were asking uh for their technology that was sort of put back on the backburn, and I want to just talk a little bit about that.

Um we really need to try to support our law enforcement officer, and I meant to write something up for the city council members.

Please ask the police chief for your part one and your part two crime report.

You're not getting it.

There's no way that you will have a good understanding of the serious crime problems that's going on in Durham, and particularly with your juvenile crime, which is also up.

You need to get that report so that you wisely will be able to make a good decision in supporting that grant that the police officers are asking for for their technology.

We have a serious problem in this community with African American individuals being homeless.

A serious problem, as well as African American women who have children, who are also a lot of them having to go from hotel to wholetale.

A lot of them are also homeless.

I don't know what you folks are getting, and I'm not trying to spank you or beat up on you, but somehow your information is not being completed.

You may be getting information, but it's not completed.

I have gone out into some of these areas.

Matter of fact, my church property has been damaged because of the homelessness that's going on in the city.

And we have private property that's being damaged from people who are burning fires on these properties to try to stay warm.

Let's get that building.

The old police building that's sitting there.

I think what is it, West Main Street sitting there.

Let's use that build and let's fix it up.

Use it for housing for persons who really need housing in this community.

So our people particularly, and I don't want to be prejudiced to only talk about the African American community, because I have actually seen some white males in our community also out in the streets, homeless.

So I hear what people are saying, but I deal with reality, and I'm uh I see this going on in my community.

So this will come up again at the general meeting, and I'm hoping that there will be other persons that will talk on this issue.

And thank you.

Thank you.

Uh, our last item that I have before us this afternoon is our presentation item number 25, riparian buffer protection standards presentation.

Thank you for being here with us.

I do have two uh residents registered to speak.

They are both online, so I'm gonna let them speak first and then pass it off to you, Director Young.

Um, first up, I have um uh Pam Andrews.

Good afternoon.

Good afternoon, Ms.

Andrews.

You have three minutes.

Thank you so much.

I just wanted to call in very quickly, and I will be listening.

I appreciate the presentation today.

Um I'm hoping that we can make progress to get a more transparent way for the public to know about the MPAAs that are issued.

Um we don't know if there could possibly be a notification through an app uh application or if there could be some kind of visual location for us to find these pending ones on online.

Um I do know with variances we do keep up with those of the Board of Adjustment announcements that come out uh weekly.

Um but for MPAAs, we have not been able to find these.

Um textual development plans make it a little difficult to sometimes see the layout of the project where graphic development plans do make it easier for us to see the layout of each one of these projects.

I just want to reminder of which you all know they are these buffers are so important as they filter on the waters, reduce pollution, stabilizing banks, slowing floodwaters, and wildlife habitat, which is so critical.

Um, we all know we've spoken many times about the conditions of Lick Creek, and so we definitely want to stay abreast of these.

And uh again, I look forward to the presentation.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you, Miss Steinback.

Can you hear us?

Good afternoon.

Okay.

The unmute didn't uh sh show up immediately.

That's okay.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for being with us.

You have three minutes, Ms.

Steinbeck.

Yes, I I'm look forward to the presentation and learning more about the MPAA process.

Thank y'all for this presentation.

I'm concerned about this process because we're getting less information, as Pam indicated, like on the uh the development plan.

Some of them with multiple streams and complexities are not showing up.

And the comments that are showing up in the consistency review is that they will be reviewed at site plan.

Well uh and that they must be met because they're in the UDO.

And now we're finding when the inf that what I think is a cause is the information not being available, go down the road, and that it they have trouble implementing the development plans.

Um recently, or somewhat recently to me, had trouble getting some stream diagrams uh from a developer, and we got all the way to city council meeting before and and actually at the rebuttal for the developer before the um streams and buffer diagram was presented presented.

And that was frustrating.

Um I've read the charts in detail and and I'm very familiar for the last three years of looking at the buffer requirements.

So I'm hoping that maybe we can get more information up front and then have less MPAs because um of the significant impact.

Uh thank you very much for allowing me to uh discuss this today.

Thank you.

Good afternoon.

Good afternoon, uh Madam Mayor Pro Tem, members of Council and Manager Ferguson.

I'm Sarah Young, Director of the Planning and Development Department, to give a very brief kind of intro to this presentation.

Um, as you all know, this is a topic that comes up frequently in your thank you, Director Young.

I'm just going to interrupt you for just a second.

I am going to honor that we have 30 minutes on this presentation, and so I would like 30 minutes to be put on the clock.

Thank you.

There's also a speaker.

Thank you, Director Young.

They're gonna have to wait.

All right.

So this is a topic that you all know um you hear a lot about during your consideration of rezoning cases.

And at a recent uh meeting not too long ago, uh there were some clarifying questions that were asked, which kind of tripped staff's mind to thinking that it might be helpful for you all and for the public to hear a little bit more about how these stream buffer regulations work, um, what's allowed, what's not, the process that folks have to go through.

And so that is the purpose of today's uh presentation.

It is informational only.

There is no uh request for any particular action on you all's part.

And so with that, I will turn it over for our presentation.

Good afternoon, Madam Mayor Pertan and Council.

I'm Bill Haley with the development infrastructure division and the planning and development department.

I'll be presenting the riparian buffer information for today's work session.

Okay, I'll start with a baseline explanation of what we mean by riparian buffers.

Riparian buffers are vegetated areas that occur alongside streams, rivers, lakes, and other surface waters.

These areas function as a transition zone between the water body itself and the surrounding land issue uses from a regulatory and environmental standpoint.

Riparian buffers are a foundational tool for watershed protection.

They help manage stormwater, protect water quality, stabilize stream banks, and reduce downstream impacts associated with development.

Because of their importance, riparian buffers are protected under both the city's unified development ordinance, specifically section 8.5, and applicable state regulations.

The reason riparian buffers are protected is because they provide multiple multiple overlapping public benefits.

First, they play a critical role in protecting water quality by filtering pollutants and sediments before they reach streams and other surface waters.

They also stabilize stream banks, which reduces erosion and limits the amount of sediment carried downstream.

From a floodplain perspective, riparian buffers help slow and absorb runoff, providing natural flood mitigation, particularly during larger storm events.

Buffers also contribute to thermal regulation by shading streams, which helps maintain healthier water temperatures.

And finally, they support habitat and biodiversity by preserving corridors for wildlife and maintaining the ecological function of our waterways.

In Durham, stream buffers apply to perennial and intermittent streams as well as water supply lakes and reservoirs.

They do not apply to ephemeral streams.

This distinction is important because it directly affects how we identify and regulate potential impacts.

Streams and floodplains are entirely different features.

One does not depend on the other to exist on a given development parcel, and each is regulated based on its own characteristics.

So how do we determine stream classifications?

We rely on a defined set of accepted mapping sources.

These sources include the USGS topographic quadrangle maps and the NRCS soils maps for Durham County.

If those maps show different conditions, we apply the most stringent depiction.

In other words, we default to a more protective classification.

It's also important to note that what is not used, the WebSol Survey MAT is not an accepted source for the stream classification under this process.

In addition to map based classifications, landowners also have a right to request an on-site determination if they believe the accepted maps do not accurately reflect conditions on the property.

Who performs that determination depends on the river basin.

In the Noose River Basin, the termination is conducted by state staff.

In the Jordan Lake and Cape Fear River basins, the determination is performed by city staff.

Once the on-site review is completed, the appropriate agency issues a formal determination letter.

And if a landowner disagrees with that outcome, there is an established appeals process available to them.

When an on-site determination is conducted, staff use the state approved North Carolina stream identification form and accompanying manual.

That process relies on a standard standardized scoring system based on the presence or absence of 26 specific field indicators, things like physical characteristics, hydrology, and biological features.

Each indicator contributes to an overall score, which determines the stream classification.

A score of zero to eighteen points indicates an ephemeral stream.

Nineteen to twenty points indicates an intermittent stream, and score of 30 points or more indicates a perennial stream.

So we're going to talk just really briefly about three different types of main indicators.

So geomorphic indicators are the stream's structural fingerprints.

They tell us how water, sediment, and energy have shaped a channel over time, even when the stream isn't actively flowing.

Hydraulic indicators help us understand how frequently water moves through a channel, how long those flows last, and how consistent they are from year to year.

Living organisms are integrators of long-term conditions.

Unlike a single site visit or storm event, biological indicators reflect what the stream consistently provides over time.

When organisms that require flowing water present, it tells us the stream reliably produce provides the conditions they need.

Before diving into the origins of our riparian buffer rules, it's important to first note that Durham is located within two different river basins, the Noose River Basin and the Cape Fear River Basin.

Each basin has its own set of rules and a different delegated authority, which is an important distinction for how our buffers are regulated.

Apple launched the Macintosh.

Prince's purple rain became a cultural phenomenon, and Van Halen's jump topped the Billboard charts.

But here in Durham, something even more significant happened that year.

It was the adoption of the water supply watershed protection standards to safeguard our drinking water reservoirs.

Those early standards were voluntary and limited in scope.

They applied only to perennial streams with designated water supply watersheds and not across the entire city.

The North Carolina water supply watershed protection program was mandated by state law, but actually began as a voluntary initiative in 1986.

That program was formalized in 1992 when statewide rules were adopted.

In the early 1990s, local governments, including the city of Durham were required to adopt ordinances to implement those rules at the local level.

The Noose River Basin rules were adopted in 1997 and marked a shift from largely voluntary or locally driven conservation efforts to state mandated watershed-based buffer requirements.

They were a direct regulatory response to documented environmental degradation and helped lay the foundation for many of the watershed protection rules we use today.

As a result, the riparian buffer protections now extend beyond water supply watershed protection areas.

For the Jordan Lake Basin, Durham adopted broader riparian buffer standards in 2008 for areas draining to Jordan Lake.

Those requirements are codified in the unified development ordinance section 8.5 and are derived from the state's Jordan Lake Nutrient Management Strategy.

They apply to intermittent and perennial streams as well as lakes and ponds.

Buffer widths vary based on stream type, watershed overlays, urbanization, and development intensity, ranging from a minimum of 50 feet up to 150 feet in some locations.

Durham's Jordan Lake buffer rules are at least as stringent as the state's requirements and in some cases more protective within water supply watershed areas.

Together, this history brings us to today's buffer regulations shaped by decades of science, policy, and experience protecting our waterways.

So how are buffers measured?

It depends on the type of water feature.

For perennial and intermittent streams, the buffer begins at the top of bank and extends landward away from the stream.

For ponds, lakes, and reservoirs, the buffer begins at the normal water level and extends outward from there.

The key point is that buffers are measured horizontally from a clearly defined starting line, either atop a bank or the normal water level, not from the center of the stream or pond.

I also want to note that the Noose and Cape Fear basins are not unique.

Several other river basins across North Carolina have implemented riparian buffer rules as well.

While these programs generally share the same overarching goal, protecting and preserving water quality and repairing functions, they differ in how they are implemented and who has regulatory authority.

They also vary where the rules apply, including which streams of waters are covered and how those features are identified.

This table included the remaining portion on the next slide.

Provides a high-level comparison to show how Durham's buffer regulations fit within the broader statewide framework.

So we've talked about whether riparian buffer rules came from and how they've evolved over time.

That history matters because it explains why we protect these areas and what the rules are trying to accomplish.

The natural next question is how does that history show up in day-to-day decision making?

What happens when a project actually touches a stream buffer?

That's where stream buffer impact permitting comes in.

We are now shifting from background to application, how those rules are applied today through the use of category requirements, allowable and prohibitive buffer uses, and the authorization processes when an impact can't be avoided.

In other words, this is the practical side of the rules, how staff evaluates requests, how impacts are managed, and how consistency is maintained.

This side explains how different activities are treated within a stream buffer under the ordinance.

The key idea here is that not all impacts are equal, and the rules reflect that.

There are four basic use categories, and I'll walk through them from the least restrictive to the most restrictive.

First are exempted exempt uses.

These activities do not require written authorization.

However, they are not unregulated.

Best management practices are still required.

So even when an activity is exempt, it still has to be done carefully with measures in place to minimize disturbance and protect water quality.

Next are allowable uses.

These activities can occur within the buffer, but only if there are no practical alternatives, and they do not require written authorization from the authority.

This is where staff looks at whether the activity truly needs to be in the buffer or whether it could be reasonably located somewhere else.

The third category is allowable with mitigation.

Again, there must be no practical alternatives.

In addition, a mitigation strategy must be approved.

Written authorization is required.

Mitigation might include things like restoration, enhancement, or other measures to offset the impact.

The final category is allowable with exception, sometimes referred to as prohibited uses.

These activities are not listed in the table uses.

And they require written authorization, and they must meet very specific hardship criteria.

This is intentionally a high bar.

These are rare cases, and approval is not automatic.

This slide demonstrates the similarities in slight differences in the use categories between the Noose River Basin and the Jordan Cape Jordan Lake Cape Fear River Basin.

Overall, both basins provide a tiered system.

Low impact activities move forward with safeguards.

Higher impact activities face more scrutiny, and the most disruptive uses require clear justification.

In essence, they provide flexibility when appropriate while still keeping strong protections in place for our streams.

This slide shows an excerpt from table uses in the UDO as it exists today.

I want to emphasize up front the UDO is currently under revision, but the intent of this table is not changing.

The structure and purpose will remain the same.

The table of uses is where the ordinance gets very specific.

Each proposed activity is listed by name.

That activity is then categorized as deemed deemed allowable, allowable with authorization, allowable with mitigation, or prohibited.

So rather than rely on our broad interpretation, staff and applicants can point to a clear named use and see how it's treated.

From a policy standpoint, this table does a few important things.

It provides clarity and predictability for applicants.

It supports consistent staff review and ensures that decisions are grounded in adopted standards.

This slide gives a practical snapshot of common buffer uses under the ordinance.

Rather than walking through every possible activity, I want to focus on the ones we see most often.

Driveways, road crossings, utility crossings, and stormwater outfalls.

Across the top, you'll see the same four categories we've been we've been discussing.

Exempt, allowable, allowable mitigation, and prohibited.

The key thing to understand is that similar activities can fall into different categories depending on how they're designed and where they're located.

Driveways and road crossings are probably the most common buffer impacts we review.

A single family driveway crossing may be allowed with authorization.

Road crossings are typically allowed when they are necessary to provide access.

The expectation is always that the crossing is minimized and it's designed to cross the buffer as directly as possible.

If there's no practical alternative, the ordinance allows these crossings, but not without review.

Utility crossings are another frequent example.

Perpendicular utility crossings are often easier to approve.

Non-perpendicular crossings typically require mitigation.

The goal is to reduce disturbance, limit clearing, and maintain buffer function.

Again, the emphasis on design, how the crossing happens matters.

Stormwater outfalls are also common.

New outfalls are generally allowable with authorization.

They must be designated to control erosion, protect a stream channel, and maintain water quality.

These are often unavoidable, but they're closely reviewed to make sure the impact is as limited as much as possible.

This slide covers the no practical alternatives authorization or NPAA.

This is the single most important part of the buffer authorization process.

So I want to slow down here for a moment.

At its core, the MPAA is the test that answers one quick one key question.

Could this project reasonably avoid or further minimize impacts to the buffer?

An MPAA is not automatic and it's not a shortcut.

It's the point where ordinance requires applicants to prove their they're truly doing everything they can.

To receive an MPAA, the applicant has to clearly demonstrate three things.

They must show that a project's purpose cannot practically be accomplished in a way that would further reduce disturbance, better protect aquatic life and habitat, or improve water quality.

They must also show that the project cannot reasonably be reduced in size or density, or redesigned or reconfigured in a way that would lessen buffer impacts.

And finally, they must commit to using best management practices or BMPs to minimize disturbance and protect the stream where impacts are unavoidable.

These determinations are reviewed by state staff or Durham staff depending on jurisdiction to confirm that the criteria met.

This is a technical evidence-based review, not a policy judgment call.

This slide outlines what's required when an applicant is requesting a no practical alternative authorization.

The intent here is thoroughness.

NPA applications are meant to clearly document what's being proposed, where it's happening, why impacts truly can't be avoided.

First is contact and legal information.

Property ownership and deed information, authorized agent documentation, if applicable.

This establishes who is legally responsible for the request and who has authority to act on the property.

Next, the applicant must clearly describe the nature of the activity.

This isn't just a label, it's a detailed explanation of what's actually being built or installed and how it functions.

That clarity is critical when evaluating whether alternatives are really exist.

They also must identify where the activity is located, including the watershed and the jurisdiction.

That helps determine which buffer rules apply and who has a review authority.

A major component of the application is mapping and exhibits.

The map must be legible and detailed.

It must show property boundaries, buffer boundaries, the exact location and dimensions of any proposed disturbance.

This allows reviewers to clearly see the relationship between the project and the stream buffer.

One of the most important pieces is the avoidance and minimization discussion.

The application must also include plans for best management practices.

These are measures that will be used to control erosion, protect water quality, and reduce impacts during after construction.

And finally, if the use is classified as allowable with mitigation, the applicant must submit a mitigation proposal consistent with UDO section 8.5.11.

That ensures impacts are offset in a measurable and enforceable way.

This slide highlights what staff looks for first when reviewing a no practical alternative authorization.

Before we even get in design or mitigation, there are a few foundation items that must be clear and correct.

Most importantly, all surface waters subject to buffer regulations must be clearly shown on the site plan.

That includes intermittent streams, perennial streams, and any other regulated surface water.

If a stream isn't shown, it can't be properly protected.

So this is always the starting point.

Second, we need to see where streams begin and end, how they're aligned on the site.

Stream origins and terminations must be clearly labeled.

Existing stream alignments must match the top of bank locations shown on the plan.

This ensures that the buffer is being measured from the correct location.

For the purpose of time, we'll omit details on the remaining remaining items as they have been previously discussed.

Once an MPAA has been fully reviewed and approved, the process moves to issuance.

Approval results is a written authorization issued to the applicant by the delegated authority.

It's also important to note that approvals may include conditions.

These conditions are site-specific and can address things like construction methods, timing, mitigation measures method measures, or required best management practices.

Any additional requirements tied to the approval are clearly outlined in the authorization letter.

I also want to clarify the respective roles of the state and city in the newsroom basin.

Durham is not authorized by NCDEQ to issue state riparian buffer authorizations within the Noose Road Basin.

In those cases, buffer authorizations, including NPAA approvals, are handled by the state, not the city.

There is, however, an important distinction to note.

In the noose basin, the state's buffer rules apply to the first 50 feet of the stream.

NCDQ reviews and approves impacts within that zero to 50 foot area.

Durham's role is limited to zone three, which is the 50 to 100 foot buffer established under the city's Unified Development Ordinance.

Zone three is reviewed locally by the city, but it is a local standard and not a state standard.

In short, the state reviews impacts within zero to fifty feet in the noose, and the city reviews only the 50 to 100 foot buffer zone, which is zone three.

This slide addresses timelines, which is often a key concern for both applicants and the public.

Under the ordinance, once an NPAA application is submitted, the review and authority is required to take action within 60 days.

That means approving it, denying it, or questioning additional information, but that action has to occur.

If no action is taken within that 60-day window and there are no defined extenuating circumstances, the buffer authorization is approved by default.

That provision is intentional.

It creates accountability and prevents applications from sitting indefinitely.

The ordinance does not allow for limited uh extensions when extenuation circumstances exist, but those are specifically defined.

I'm sorry, back up.

The ordinance does allow for limited extensions when extenuation circumstances exist, but those are specifically defined and not open-ended.

This keeps the process fair, predictable, and transparent.

The final piece of the NPAA process I want to touch on is appeals.

If an applicant disagrees with a decision, whether it's authorization with conditions or denial, there is a formal appeal process available.

This ensures decisions can be reviewed and that applicants have due process.

Appeals must be filed within 60 days of the decision.

That time frame is firm and helps keep the processes moving and decisions final.

The requirements for filing an appeal are not set locally.

They're established under Chapter 150B of the North Carolina General Statutes and Title 26 of the North Carolina Administrative Code.

So appeals follow a state level administrative process, not a discretionary local one.

For uses categories categorized as allowable with mitigation and those prohibitive yet receive and approved variants.

Mitigation will be required.

When mitigation is required, the ordinance provides several ways an applicant can satisfy that obligation.

These options range from very common and straightforward to more site-specific and customized.

I'll walk through them in the order we typically see them used.

The first option is the easiest and most common, assuming credits are available at the time they are needed.

Applicants purchase approved compensary mitigation credits.

Those credits represent restoration already completed elsewhere in the watershed.

This option is preferred because it's standardized, it's measurable, and the results are immediate environmental benefit.

If credits aren't available, non-government applicants may pay a mitigation fee to the riparian buffer restoration fund.

This option is governed by state rule.

It's only available when mitigation brank credits can't be obtained.

Those funds are then used for buffer restoration projects elsewhere.

Another option is the donation of real property.

This typically involves land with conservation value that can be permanently protected and managed.

Applicants may also restore or enhance a previously disturbed or non-forested riparian buffer.

This can include planting, stabilization, or other improvements that restore buffer function.

The last option I want to cover is variances, which apply only to prohibit activities.

If an activity is classified as prohibited under the buffer rules, it cannot move forward through the standard authorization process.

The only potential path is a variance, and that's a much higher bar.

Variance variances are not issued by the city.

They're issued by the North Carolina Environmental Management Commission.

With any final appeal going to the Office of Administrative Hearings or OAH, this is a very stringent procedure.

The standards are high, approvals are rare, and the process is an intentionally difficult to ensure prohibitive activities remain the exception and not the norm.

That concludes this presentation.

Thank you for your time and attention.

My colleague Bo and Ken and I are happy to answer any questions or provide any clarification needed.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Madam Clerk, there's a speaker.

I'm just gonna say for folks, there was two folks who didn't register in time today.

I'm I'm allowing it when I'm chair, but after today, I'm just because I did it for one, I'm doing it for the other.

But please remember we have very lenient rules for signing up.

Um for folks who are who haven't signed up in time, please remember to do so.

Adam Clerk, I'm not sure who the speaker is.

Hi there, are you able to hear me?

Yes, good good afternoon.

I'm not sure who's online with us, but uh good afternoon.

Thank you.

You have three minutes.

Thank you.

Um I appreciate the opportunity to speak.

My name is Samantha Propp.

Um I am the news river keeper and advocacy director with a local nonprofit Sound Rivers.

I spend a lot of time um monitoring and doing water quality testing in Durham's waterways.

I appreciate the opportunity to speak.

I wasn't sure I was going to be able to make the meeting today, so apologize for signing up late.

Um I just wanted to highlight that this is such a valued conversation.

I appreciate the planning staff for bringing this um overview forward to city council.

Um, as we know, um these buffers are incredibly important as was covered during the presentation, and I think it would um really benefit um council and also the public to have the um no practical alternative authorization process be more daylighted in conversation.

Um I know that uh just last year 20 NPAAs were approved, um, equaling about 195,000 square feet of stream impacts.

And so a lot of those impacts were happening in places where there was robust discussion during rezoning hearings about the importance of protecting water resources.

And so I think it's important just both from council's perspective to be aware of all the ins and outs of that process, so that if there are proposals that come forward where there's a lot of concern about protecting water resources, that um an explicit condition can be offered by a developer to say not pursue an NPAA and impact those water resources if that's a particular concern.

Um and I think the other piece that I just want to highlight was mentioned by a couple other commenters, just having to do with public transparency.

Um when the state approves these uh variances, or when the state approves these um impacts, they do have a public process.

They have a notification system that you can opt into, and they also have a map where you can see exactly where these applications are and where they're approved.

And I would just really encourage um the city of Durham to consider a similar process so that these uh these applications aren't happening sort of in secrecy or you know, not intentionally in secrecy, but sort of behind closed doors without any public awareness or accountability.

Um I think that would go a long way towards transparency um and probably a long way towards forwarding the conversation about how we can continue to protect Durham's water resources.

Um yeah, that's it.

I appreciate you giving me the time.

Thank you.

Um see councilmember Kopak, who else has comments or questions?

Okay, so I'm gonna go councilmember Kopac, Councilmember Baker, Councilmember Riz, Councilmember Cook.

Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem.

Uh thank you for the presentation.

I really appreciate this additional background.

Um I was curious to start if we have data tracking, like how often these different um authorizations are given, um, either with or without mitigation, you know, or uh ultimately, you know, with the uh with exception uh at the state level uh as like a percentage of the cases that we we see.

Do we have that sort of data to understand um how prevalent uh each of these each of these are?

Um we don't have that.

Um I'm Ken Carper, by the way, uh flip lane repairing buffer manager in the planning and development department.

We don't have that data at the tip of our fingers.

We we can research and get that kind of data.

We have to have more breakdown than we already have tracked, but but that's possible to find that information for you at a at a later date, yes.

Okay, yeah, I would be interested to see that.

Thank you.

Um next, you know, in terms of the applicants uh requirement to demonstrate that certain changes can't be practically made to accommodate uh and address concerns around riparian buffers.

Um what are the criteria used, or how does the state in city in a position to be able to say you know to a developer that there, for example, could be an adjustment in size or density, or that can't happen.

Like how does that determination get get made?

Uh it's it's very case-specific and engineer specific.

Um the engineering responsible charge is um kind of in charge of the projects and has to sign and seal the documents that he's presenting to be constructed throughout that process.

Throughout that process, um there has to be and should be, according to all the rules, state, federal, and local, a avoidance and minimization process he goes through.

And what I do, if I don't see, I don't see how, or is not clear to me, and I tell my staff, uh, if they don't have that type of documentation included, then they need to produce it before we'll uh uh go further with the application, because that table of uses that um that Bill showed here needs to be keyed to the impacts.

In other words, if you got a you got something that's exempt, it needs you need to show where that exempt uh impact is occurring and and key it to the to the UDO in Jordan Lake's case, the UDO um chapter in verse that supports why that's exempt.

And and most of the applicants don't do that unless we ask them to.

Okay.

Because it seems like some of it's like an economic analysis, right?

If a project could be shifted to address, and I just don't know if if that's like that's part of the design that the engineer is responsible for with his contractor or owner, the owner who's paying him to design whatever it is.

And um they should go through an economic analysis.

That's just due diligence for anybody building or designing anything is determine what's the best alternative at hand for the project that they're trying to accomplish.

You know.

So that's that's a common thing.

That's not part of the process per se.

We don't ask for economic analysis.

Now, there's other processes and procedures that um uh that that do have economic analysis, such as I'm also involved with floodplains.

And uh before we, if we have an this will get off the track a little bit, but before we issue a full-plane development permit that requires um you know map changes, they have to go through and show us how much that's gonna cost and compare that to um the the existing structure to determine how we proceed from there.

Okay.

Thank you.

Hi, uh Brinski, uh plan developed hard.

I just want to I think to try and address your particular question.

Uh one of the findings that does have to be made both uh by the you know uh by the information private applicant and of course uh uh the approving authority.

Um it does speak to the the basic project purpose cannot be practically achieved.

So I don't that is necessarily speak to um you know, could X number of units be constructed without this, but just using um, you know, a common NPA that's issued uh frequently is you know a driveway access for a single family house, right?

Well, obviously if if you have a stream crossing, you know, across the the front of the property, then a single family development could could not be um or say I'm sorry, same house cannot be built on a lot.

And so for example, you know, in that instance, finding would be in order for this house to be constructed on this lot.

Um there is no practical alternative.

And that's like the the most common, obviously not the only type.

That's a helpful example.

Yeah.

Yeah, I was imagining it was more of like, oh, if you had a change in like, you know, number of units in a larger project that that you know could uh uh uh uh you know allow it to go forward and how do you assess if that's practical or not for for a project.

And um I'm also happy to discuss more offline too.

This is just part of the learning process, so thanks for letting me do it uh in full view here.

So yes, Director Young?

Yeah, and another common example is uh utility crossings and utility connections.

You know, we have a gravity sewer system, a lot of our sewer runs along the lowest part of a site, which is also coincidentally going to be along streams, and so um that is often a case where like you have to connect to the existing sewer, the existing sewer already runs through there.

There really is no choice, right?

Um and so those are the kind of most common things that that we see.

I will also add, you know, Ken mentioned that uh this is stuff that's prepared by a licensed engineer.

Um our team that reviews these is a team of engineers.

Ken is also a professional licensed engineer.

So we do have professionals with expertise that are looking at this and being able to kind of push back uh on applicants and say, well, you know, you probably could move this, you know, further here or further there, um, et cetera.

So great.

And my last question is just uh around the request for um, you know, more accessibility about these MPAs at the city level, like what's provided at the state level.

Is that something that the department has discussed and is that you know something that could be made easier?

Sure, that is definitely something that we um are happy to kind of look into and brainstorm a way to make the information more transparent.

I will say that we have a new permitting system coming one of these days.

I think uh every time we talk about it, it's two years away.

Um, but that system will make it really easy for folks to see these in the interim, we can talk internally about a way to daylight um these cases so that people can uh find information more readily available on our on our website.

Thank you all.

Thank you, Councilmember Baker.

Thank you, and thank you for the presentation.

Um I agree with uh Councilmember Kopak in being interested in daylighting that information and making it more accessible, uh especially in the interim um before the new perm permitting system, if we can go ahead and do that.

I think that would be valuable uh information.

That's one that's one piece of the puzzle.

I think at the end of the day here, and this is just one small piece of a larger uh puzzle, but at the end of the day here, what we want is to protect water quality and protect riparian buffers for all of the different reasons that we know of, including the presentation and wildlife and everything else.

Um so what are the what are the steps that that help get us there?

What are the what are the issues that we're facing?

I think um in concept, you know, the NPAA makes complete sense in in its title, even there are no other practical alternatives.

Um and I know that there is um you know heartburn that that um that the NPA process is being used literally by by uh developers um in some sensitive areas.

And I don't know the details of that, but I but I know that that is a a concern.

So my question on top of the uh transparency question uh is are there since what are there any changes that we're exploring in the LBC?

That's question number one, and then question number two is are there requests that we should be making to developers to restrict uh or limit uh the number of NPAA applications that that will be made.

So very good question.

Um I would say we had a a recent case where there was a proffer to essentially have no intrusions into the buffer.

Um that that is a proffer well above and beyond.

I think we recently kind of clarified that when we say that stream buffers are protected, in general what we mean is what we mean is you can't build a building and you can't put a parking lot there.

But otherwise there are some things as you saw that are allowed.

So I think when a developer proffers through that process to have no intrusions, that then, you know, to our staff says you can't apply for an NPAA because you committed to not do anything at all.

So I think that would be um something, uh you know, a tool in your toolbox as elected officials that you you can um use.

And I'm sorry, what was the first one?

And let me just follow up on that real quick because I I do think that um this is this is one where it might take some legwork from staff to kind of look at uh what what what is a tailored recommendation from planning staff on what a particular site might need.

Obviously there we have competing interests.

We want street connectivity.

We we we've got to extend sewer lines, all those things.

Um so there might like I think that the NPAA in concept makes a lot of sense.

There are uh there are moments where there are no other alternatives.

Um and so, but there are might be opportunities where we really should say no intrusion into the riparian buffer.

And so I think that that would take some leaning on um planning staff if that is something that could be a recommendation in uh in a rezoning or annexation case.

So that was the the one question.

The other question was about the LDC.

Yeah.

Do you want to talk about that?

Yeah, so the there's no proposed changes to the particular findings um for the no practical alternatives.

There is are some changes proposed that are uh where we were appropriate referencing um to uh state law rather than having double references like we do today.

So there's some some simplifications.

Um but in terms of the NPA process, uh no change proposed.

Are there um I guess this is my last question, kind of stepping out um any additional kind of larger changes to riparian buffers in general in the LDC?

No.

Uh other than some of the the format and the referencing.

Yeah.

I'll I'll just add to that that that's for a couple of reasons.

One is we have to follow state law, right?

So everything that's under state jurisdiction um or that's a process where we're the delegated authority.

We have we can't do anything other than what that is, right?

Where we do have some local authority, we had to go to the state to seek that local authority.

So we can't change that without going to the state again.

So it's not something that's wholly under our control, like many of the other things in the ordinance area.

All right, thank you.

Thank you.

Uh Councilmember Risk.

Thank you, Member Tim.

Um thanks, Steph, for the presentation, Mr.

Haley and your colleagues.

Um it's always good to get these updates.

Obviously, this stuff gets real detailed fast.

The devil is in the details, and that you know, just as one council member and as resident in Durham, I appreciate their people who are every day looking out for our riparian buffer.

So I really appreciate that.

Um I think I just uh yeah I I think I just want to second or maybe third my colleagues here to say I know the residents have have expressed interest in more at transparency.

I appreciate Ms.

Krop and others who've commented.

And I think if that's something that this the staff's been thinking about, I appreciate you all coming back to us with those ideas, but I think that makes sense.

We we value transparency in Durham, and so that's something we can do, I think that makes a lot of sense.

Appreciate that.

Councilmember Cook.

Thank you.

Um yes, I want to echo that I am interested in that.

I also am interested in the additional data that council member Copac asked for in regard to how often we are granting those NPAAs.

I'm also I'm interested in timing on them as well.

Um I think that part of the thing that feels a little bit I don't want to say that I mean we need the more transparency generally, I think.

But one of the things that feels a little bit problematic is that we have these conversations at council, and then there's not necessarily proffers made, but there's conversation around, oh, we're gonna protect the this corner, we're not gonna build here, we're gonna blah, blah, blah, like this wildlife corridor is gonna be intact.

And then we hear that these in these exceptions were both applied for and granted within a a matter of months.

And so I think that that that also feels a little bit iffy.

So I'm wondering if y'all can speak to like the time frame where we normally see these.

Are they generally at site plan?

Do we require them to be at any point in the process?

And then like, do we have any does that weigh for or against, does that does that weigh into the decision at all if it's like immediately after a conversation that kind of like lent itself to the opposite?

Yeah.

Uh certainly appreciate the that question.

Um so yeah, at the site plan stage, um, in order to get the site plan approved, the NPA uh shall be approved.

So that's when we're seeing um that submittal.

I certainly can't speak to where they are in terms of their design when they're you know standing at the uh the the podium um speaking to all the city council, obviously we you know we know that they haven't submitted plans to us, or if they have, you all are made aware of that.

Um and so yeah, that I think that uh when they when they speak about protecting the buffers at that stage, there are probably instances where they know that there's a sewer line that's going to have to cross, and then and maybe you know there's probably some questions that you all could ask, or maybe make it voluntary, and there's probably instances where they have no idea at all.

I think that's gonna vary case to case.

So do I mean I imagine with that this also might differ to differ depending on the type of plan that we receive.

And so if we get something that is a development plan or something that has more details, are we seeing more of those on the on the front end, or are we seeing most of them at the site end at the site plan stage, or is that some of the data that we could maybe too?

Yeah, so we're seeing all of them at the site plan stage because that is a requirement.

Um in terms of the level of detail at the rezoning stage.

Um I guess versus if if a graphic development plan is provided, obviously that they're showing the the streams in that instance, though that stream is already shown on various maps as uh uh Mr.

Haley talked about already.

So I'm not sure if that actually, you know, if that differentiation gets to it.

I do think um some of the proffers that we've talked about already and some of the other proffers um, you know, require a certain level of detail that that they've gone into in the moment.

Yeah, I'll add to that that you know we have asked uh developers in the development community kind of this question in the past about how much information can they, you know, commit to or get us.

And it varies widely.

There are some projects that at the rezoning stage, they haven't designed their project, and so they wouldn't be able to, they don't, you know, they don't know.

And then there's some that maybe have not told us that they have, but they have, and they turn around and submit a site plan, you know, a month after their approval.

Um so it it's kind of varies, and and staff doesn't really know for most of these kind of where they are.

Yeah.

I think that's my concern is that and we've seen a bit a major one that happened just recently where we're in we had the assumption that there was no details, and then the request was made like pretty immediately following our council hearing.

Um yeah, it just it I hear you.

I know that there's nothing to be done on your end about it.

It just like but it's something that I see in, yeah, it like it just makes me feel a little bit like oh the there's with there's information being withheld that feels problematic.

So what case that was?

I mean, yeah, Howard Place, I think was yeah, Howard's place.

Yes, and yes, Director Young already knows because yeah, so and and then what is the timing on the um how quickly are these granted when y'all get the request made.

What do they take to process?

Uh depends on I was gonna touch on the big big reports.

Oh, yeah, come on.

The second caller hit on something very important that you guys, I think it's just kind of swirling in the back of everybody.

What we get and when we get it is very important from the developers, and what we can do based on our review is if it's not complete, if it's it if the buffers aren't shown, the streams aren't shown, or the buffers are shown, but they don't know where the stream is, which could happen.

How are you gonna protect that?

You know, so we frequently when I see that kind of thing, we just ask the question and and they have to resubmit what they don't have.

You know, we get things that are virtually designed, and there's a buffer on top of it, you know.

So it it's it's a skill of the developer and the engineer doing it and the knowledge about what they're trying to protect and why.

And it varies from like so you're Sarah was saying, it varies from applicant to applicant, project to project, and that's part of our job on PNAT is to catch that kind of thing and get them to correct it before it's too late.

And and some NPAs, just like site plans can take months to, you know, there's um staff will issue comments, hey, this isn't right, this needs to be fixed, you know, what are you gonna do to mitigate, or you didn't provide enough information, they'll resubmit.

It may or may not be right still, or the staff may not be convinced that they've done all that they could.

So it could take months.

This is not necessarily something that's like you know, approved quickly just because one gets submitted.

So I'm gonna ask you to repeat what you said before about you were talking about there being engineers on our staff that are able to sort of push back.

But the when y'all are talking about the engineer putting forth this balance, I think it was um yeah, that was talking about it.

Um that we we had asked about if there's like how do we do a cost analysis from our end.

The engineer that's putting forward the request is the engineer on the developer's team.

Correct.

And then we have engineers in-house that can potentially push back, but we might not have all of the information in-house.

Correct.

We're relying on what what they're telling us about their project and you know, their expertise looking at it versus what can be done, what can't be done.

And I've, you know, uh Ken and I have had conversations about sites where you know we looked at it, we were like, wait a minute, they could actually just move this further down and connect further down.

It may take them some extra pipe to do that, but if they did that, they would avoid this altogether.

And so those are the kind of things that him and his staff look at, the type of comments they would make.

Okay, thank you.

That's helpful.

And then my last question is about so I know that the the sorry, I'm the acronyms are making me crazy.

Okay.

The the no alternatives makes us fall into the allowable category.

And is that I are the question is can we require mitigation for some of these?

Is there a way to to recategorize some of these requests, or is this state law bound?

Well, yes.

Um we can't require mitigation.

It has to be um if they haven't avoided and minimized, and they're and that's and and we determine through the MPA process that that's the best they can do, and that was the best they can do requires mitigation, then yeah, they might add it will be required.

That we don't say you must do mitigation uh as a first course of action.

They have to go through that process and then give us the reason why they can't fix it, basically, and minimize it more.

Okay.

That kind of thing.

So it's like part of our criteria in approving the exception.

Yes, and there's a delicate balance here because there's a there's a professional liability issue with engineering and plans and who's responsible for what.

The person signing and sealing the plans uh is responsible for what goes in the ground up and to and when it's and how they're gonna maintain it the whole thing, how much buffer impacts they have or not, um, how many wetland impacts they have or not.

We can sit there and tell them, well, you need to do a better job, but what we can't do is design it for them because then the city takes on the responsibility of what the developers engineers should be doing.

So it's it's a give and take, like you're subscribing.

Yeah, okay.

I appreciate this conversation.

I it's yeah, I really appreciate this.

And then I hope that folks um are in our uh development community are also kind of listening to to the internal struggles that maybe we have up here as council and and staff.

Um I'm sure y'all are in communication with them all the time about these things.

Um and I feel certain that we're getting um the best things that we can get.

Um I just I I don't I also understand that there's a little push and pull.

Did you did you have something else you wanted to add?

Yeah.

Yeah, I want I wanted to add one last thing, and that is um, you know, sometimes we hear applicants uh say stuff at the podium.

Um one of the things that um we could do a little more of as staff is just clarify when we hear things.

Um, if you all will recognize us, uh, and usually you you do a pretty good job of like letting us at the end of the meeting say, hey, these are the commitments we heard, and that gives a chance, I think, to kind of daylight, and if that's something that they said is not in our like list of commitments, then that's a way to kind of air out that that's not gonna be binding whatever they said.

So we can um assist you all with that by kind of proactively um kind of reiterating any new commitments at the end of every case, if that's something that you all would be interested in.

Yeah, I would definitely be interested in that.

And even like thinking through some of these things in advance about like language that is helpful, given conversations that have happened either at planning um or sort of in the meantime.

I know a lot of times when folks come up, y'all are like, oh yeah, we've been back and forth on this.

We know that the developer is interested.

And sometimes there's language uh provided to the developer prior, but like also sometimes not.

So I would definitely appreciate y'all's expertise in that a great deal.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um Councilmember Kopak.

Just a quick build, and I appreciate the discussion, and thanks for raising some of those questions, Councilmember Cook.

Um, yeah, I I just first of all, thank you for kind of keeping an eye out for us, right, and helping surface some of those questions.

I also wonder like if we see a case like uh uh Howard's place or others, like if there's a way to sort of flag that and so we're aware so that if if an applicant comes back to us uh subsequent time that we're perhaps you know, have in mind that it might be worth digging into a bit more.

Um, because I I don't think it's what we necessarily want to see that immediately after all of a sudden there's an application filed.

And it just would be helpful.

I'm just trying to think about how to track that just so we know to maybe dig in a bit more the next time if we we do see that happening.

Yeah, I've been my brain, my wheels have been turning while we this discussion isn't going on.

I think another thing that we can do to help daylight this a little bit more is you know there's a part of the staff report that talks about all these environmental things and whether they're kind of you know meeting or exceeding ordinance standards, and there's a line for stream buffers.

I think we can be more explicit about any commitments about stream buffer intrusions, you know, particularly and call that out.

Um I need to look, my brain is not recalling the exact wording of the staff report, but that's something I can work with the growth management team to just have one more place where we can try and differentiate um whether they've kind of really gone above and beyond or not.

If that would be helpful.

Thank you.

Does anyone else have any questions or comments?

Okay, I have a few, but I just want to make sure.

I have a couple questions.

Um and some of this is so just obviously this is we're talking about rezonings because that's what we see, but the vast majority of cases that come through the planning department are by right.

And so all of these standards still apply.

I just want to, I'm seeing a head not, I just want to for for the folks who are are watching or provide public comment often on development cases.

Um I also want to say within staff reports, I think it would be helpful to then list out very clearly where the limit of our authority goes.

Uh, as you've said, some of this is we're we're up against the state.

So sometimes folks come to us and and they want a thing and we can't necessarily provide it because we're at state regulation.

And I will say I in this current context, I would hesitate continuously going to the state uh to ask for additional powers.

Uh, and so having that within our report would also maybe be helpful for uh folks.

Um I also just want to thank your staff as a person who is with somebody who partnered to somebody who actually has to do this work all the time.

Uh the city's uh regulations on streams is very, very stringent.

Uh it is not easy to get through the processes.

Uh it is often very expensive.

Uh we have to remind that a lot of the folks who are applying, we see the big stuff, but there are lots of just regular homeowners on fixed budgets who are just trying to make some improvements to their homes.

Uh, and those things are costly.

And so I I do want to emphasize that we often in this space get real tied up in in on the big guys, right?

On the big developers, but there's a lot of development that happens in Durham.

That's just a regular person trying to do a thing to improve their home, and the rules still apply to them.

Um, and our fees are expensive, the processes are expensive, the regulation is expensive.

So there is a cost to that just on regular folks.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have it, but I think we should always remind ourselves uh that we we see the the big developers, the big rezonings, the larger acreage.

Um there's still a ton of development that happens in the city and in this community that's just not that big.

Thank you.

That is all I have in front of us.

I'm gonna ask our city manager uh to help settle the agenda.

Yeah.

But you moved so fast he wasn't quite ready.

Let me pull it up.

Thank you.

So uh thank you, council members.

Thank you for the very rich discussion.

I think that's very helpful.

Appreciate all the feedback to staff.

To settle the agenda this afternoon, I have on consent items one through five and items seven through twenty-four.

On GBA public hearings, we have item twenty-six and twenty-seven, and item uh twenty-nine will be added.

That's the creekside item.

So uh just wanted to confirm that will be on your next agenda as item twenty-nine.

That's the agenda as we have it.

Thank you.

Could I get a motion to um settle the agenda, please?

I've got Councilmember Riss moved and Councilmember Cook seconded.

All in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed?

Okay, that motion carries unanimously.

I think uh, unless anyone else has another matter in front of us, we are adjourned at three ten PM.

Thank you so much.