Order the Erie Town Council meeting on September 23rd, 2025.

Will you please rise and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.

Sorry, so our cross.

Okay, will the town clerk please take roll?

Councilmember Baer.

President.

Mayor Moore.

Here.

Uh Councilmember Hoback.

Here.

Councilmember Mortalero.

Here.

Mayor Pro Tembell.

Here.

Councilmember Passamarelli.

Present.

And Councilmember O'Connor.

Here.

Mayor, you have a quorum.

All right.

Thank you.

We'll see if there's a motion to approve the agenda tonight.

So move.

Second.

All right.

We have a motion from Councilmember Mortalero and a second from our Mayor Pro Tem.

All in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

All opposed say no.

All right.

We have an agenda and we'll get uh right into a number of consent agenda items.

So bear with me as I go through them.

Uh the first item is 25521, approval of the June 17th, 2025 town council special meeting minutes.

Item 25140, approval of the August 5th, 2025 town council special meeting minutes.

Next item is 25518, approval of the September 2nd, 2025 town council special meeting minutes.

Next item is 25011, the code enforcement officer appreciation month proclamation and sponsored by council member um Petra Melly.

Uh next item is item 25470, a resolution of the town council of the town area approving a professional services agreement with Merrick and Company for the Col Creek Strategic Plan South of Erie Parkway.

Next item is 25459, a resolution of the town council, the town erie approving a construction contract with AM Renovations LLC, DBA Heritage Window, Restoration for the Rehabilitation of the Schofield Barn.

And the last uh consent agenda item tonight is 25486.

A resolution of the resolution of the town council of the town area approving the second amendment to the development agreement for the Summerfield filing number one.

Do we have a motion to approve the consent agenda?

So moved.

Second.

All right, we have a motion and second.

All in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

All opposed say no.

And I'm looking at a town clerk.

Just making sure you have the second.

Okay, you're good.

All right, we'll move on to public comment.

Um, and I'll um just kind of set us up here.

Um, please remember that public comment is not an interactive question and answer forum, but rather a time for you to state your comments on a particular item or issue.

Public comment provides the opportunity to discuss items that are not on the agenda or the consent agenda items only.

Please sign up with the kiosk in the lobby.

When called upon, please state your full name and location for the record.

Public comment is limited to three minutes per person.

You'll be given a 20-second warning when your three minutes are almost up.

At the three-minute mark, you'll be asked to wrap up your final sentence.

Um, all opinions are welcome.

Please be respectful to each speaker.

Uh to ensure everyone feels welcome to share comments.

Please refrain from any cheering, clapping, booing, or otherwise disruptive uh behavior.

That'll look to our town clerk.

Uh Ben Hempel is first.

Good evening, town council.

My name is Ben Hempel, and I live in District 2 in Erie.

As you know, I'm currently appointed commissioner and a former Home Rule Charter Commissioner, and tonight I'm speaking for myself.

Last week at the September 16th meeting, you provided direction to staff to reduce terms of all board and commission members on agenda item 25-500 with a four-to-three vote.

I sent an email after that meeting pointing out the charter section 10.01 part five.

And that states terms and conditions of appointment and composition of all boards and commissions shall be determined by ordinance.

Appointment of a member to any board or commission shall require a majority vote of the town council members present.

Removal, removal of any member from a board or commission requires two-thirds affirmative vote by the town council within an office for removal.

Following notice and an opportunity to be heard.

I emailed a recommended you work with legal on the direction to reduce terms being in compliance with the charter.

In my non-lawyer opinion, and directly working on the writing of our charter, reduction in terms could easily be used to turn over an entire board or commission with a simple majority directly in conflict with the intention of the home rule charter.

This provision was driven by councilmember O'Connor.

At the January 12th, 2023 meeting of the Charter Commission at 42 minutes.

Then Charter Commission Vice Chair O'Connor was a proponent that we keep a two-third majority then in office for removal in order to reduce the chance of a council removing someone out of spite.

What's to stop this council from making terms expire in three and six months at the next meeting and replacing only the sour grapes if we go into saying this is acceptable.

Is that what you intended, Councilmember O'Connor?

Tonight I urge one of the four affirmative votes on 25500 to make a motion to reconsider.

There's a simple solution.

Weave terms as they are, and the next two rounds of appointments can be three years.

This aligns boards and commission appointments with the election, and it could give the council the op this council the opportunity to appoint members during its term.

Thanks for your consideration.

All right.

Thank you.

Next we have uh Rob Eisenberg.

Good evening.

My name is Rob Eisenberg.

I live at 798 Limestone Drive.

I am ceding my time to Christine Eisenberg.

Good evening.

My name is Christine Hackett Eisenberg, and I live at 798 Limestone Drive.

Thank you, Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem, and Council members for yet again hearing me out.

Um tonight I wish to share some information that I hope will bring the town council together as a united team as you work ahead toward the budgets for 2026 and beyond.

As you know, I attended the August 19th study session during which Courtney Seavers from Magellan Strategies presented the results of the in-depth community survey.

She specifically invited everyone to read the write and responses by residents to the question.

Please describe the top two to three issues, priorities, or problems that you think the town of Erie should address in the next two to three years.

So I did read them.

All 6,697 responses by my count submitted by 3,571 residents.

As I read through them, I perceived a disconnect between how the responses were summarized in slides seven and eight and what I was reading.

So I enlisted my husband, and we entailed the responses to the summarized points in those slides.

It took us some 40 hours to execute and double check our work, and the result is a grand summary, which I provided by email earlier today, and which we are handing out now.

Included in the email with the grand summary is a sample tally sheet, the number of respondents by neighborhood, and most importantly, our assumptions when doing the tallying.

So if a respondent cited multiple items within, say the recreation amenity category, uh, like a new community sent park and a pool and youth sports programs.

That category still received just one tally mark.

This prevented double counting and preserve the integrity of the percentages that you see on the chart.

The result is that there are four top priorities and concerns that can easily drive forward the capital projects and initiatives for 2026 and beyond.

Bottom line, 65% of responses indicate that number one, our infrastructure has not kept up with our growth and is the top priority.

Number two, more commercial and retail development is needed to meet all our new residents' lifestyles.

Number three, our rapid growth has resulted in over development of housing that threatens our small town character.

And four, our recreation and amenities need to expand to meet our growth.

Addressing these insufficiencies is clearly most important to respondents across all three districts.

As a result of this tally effort, I have taken the liberty of reordering the items on slides seven and eight to reflect the priority of responses.

Rob is distributing those copies.

The order in which information is presented is important.

The way it was previously presented is inaccurate, not only for you as decision makers, but also to residents and town staff.

As you can see from the reordering, affordable housing is now item 10, not four, as shown on August 19th and in the worksheets for your retreat.

And while some of us are disappointed to see that only three percent of respondents cite affordable housing is a top priority or problem.

But from a budgeting standpoint, this is an education opportunity, not a funding priority.

The drum beat for the upcoming budget is clear.

Slow housing density and growth.

Roads, yes, but also recreation amenities, schools, public safety, and water services to accommodate the housing already built.

And this directive is reinforced by the strong majority of respondents who preferred the town to continue to focus on lower density housing, mainly single family homes, even if it may mean higher individual taxes to cover the long-term costs of infrastructure.

This is shown on slides 27 and 28.

And that is a key finding and should have been noted on slide five of key findings.

Another budgeting priority that should have also been a key finding.

Invest in attaining more commercial and retail development, meaning a central grocery store, restaurants, retail shops, locally owned businesses, employment centers, and activities related businesses.

This is category two in the grand summary.

And without questioned, fund recreation, amenities and activities.

This community priority was borne out in multiple responses, not only from the top 27 issues, but also from the question asking respondents to prioritize the town's attention shown on slide 16 and the relative importance of create recreation and cultural amenities on slides uh 42 to 50.

So again, this is a budgeting priority and should be a key binding.

So the data and results are all there.

It's now in your hands to all work together to act on the residents' wishes, and we residents are counting on you to make our priorities a reality.

Thank you.

All right, thank you.

Next we have Jesse Levy.

How's everybody doing?

Hello, Mayor and Council members.

My name is Jesse, and I am also our Erie resident.

Um I work closely with the uh families in Erie neighborhoods to build connections through an integrated program that includes a lot of local events, digital outreach, and most importantly, a high quality monthly private community publication.

This publication is a place where residents share their photos and stories about their families, kids, homes, pets, and a lot of other things that make life meaningful here.

Our goal is simple.

It's to strengthen the community ties and help local businesses build lasting relationships with residents, something especially valuable in a town where word of mouth is one of the strongest ways people choose products and services.

We're launching this brand new magazine, and it is set to launch within the next 30 to 60 days.

It will be delivered free of charge to more than 10,000 Erie homes every single month.

What makes it unique is 100% of the content comes directly from the residents and businesses.

It's wholesome, uplifting, and truly built by the community for the community.

We call this publication greet an invitation to the kind of community connection we've all been looking for, more than just a publication.

It's a warm hello from the neighbors who want to share their stories and open doors to conversations.

We've already been proud partners and active with the Erie Chamber of Commerce, and we would love the opportunity to collaborate even more closely with the City of Erie.

Our commitment is to help bring residents closer together, one story, one event, and one issue at a time.

Thank you for your time and the work you guys have served our community.

If it's okay, I was just going to hand out something really briefly to you guys.

Yep.

And while you're doing that, I'll have the clerk call up the next person.

Okay.

Uh Dan Molloy.

Thanks a lot.

Appreciate it.

We appreciate you.

Yeah, just hold on one second.

Thanks.

I can hold on.

Thank you.

Now we're interested.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right.

The floor is yours.

Mayor Moore, Council.

I appreciate you guys having us all in here for public comment tonight.

I'd like to use my time to address some of the public conduct of two council members over the last two weeks since the assassination of a political activist in front of his family.

Before the blood was even cold on the activist, a member of the community decided to describe him as a loudmouth loser who promotes racism, homophobia, and hate.

Not sure that that's entirely conduct becoming of a council person to represent our entire town.

Then we had the local editor of our imitation quality Pravda publication say, imagine that half staff for a Nazi.

Shortly around then, we had Councilman Pessimarelli decide to donate to that magazine to attend their upcoming gala in October, giving their money to support that sort of extreme rhetoric in our town.

The same editor then said about a different council person.

Anyone that says that they deserve praise should resign from council and not be uh representing our community.

I would take the same words and paraphrase them and say that Councilman Hobak should repudiate the post that he chose to amplify, and councilman Pess Marelli should retract the donation and repudiate it.

And the council as a whole should stop partnering with, amplifying, and working with the publication yellow scene as it continues to promote Stalin escape within our town.

Um our town should be able to move on and come together at this as opposed to continue to name call, continue to amplify hateful rhetoric from the council.

And I would appreciate to see some better behavior from these council people, uh, unless they want to continue their second campaigns since they were elected not even a year ago to go somewhere else.

So appreciate your time.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh next we have Cord Patrick Camholt.

Yes.

Good evening.

Welcome to Patrick Hemels, uh, resident of Erie.

Here to just briefly uh address the uh proposed commercial development at the corner of County Road 5 and Erie Parkway.

Filing number 17.

I don't think it has at least officially a name yet, but um the I attended the uh the meeting of the planning commission um maybe two and a half months ago, and have here a copy of the staff report that was submitted to the planning commission as the petitioner, the developer was seeking approval of his conceptual site plan.

During the meeting, it was discussed what types of uses were going to be uh were intended for the development.

And uh Quick Trip gas station was mentioned, the McDonald's, uh more recently the Chipotle oil change facility and the like.

Um it strikes me reading over all this information that uh the planning staff indicated that this while zone commercial has a land use, a future land use of court of commercial when in fact a close look at the comprehensive land use plan.

We're talking about the development right here.

I'm gonna add the land use, the future desire.

I'm gonna ask you just to come back to the microphone because those at home may not be.

Well, what difference does that make?

Quite a bit of difference.

Because reading the town of Erie Future land use uh plan, primary use in neighborhood commercial.

Uh small scale professional law office, child care at center is and alike.

Limit development and redevelopment to non-vehicular oriented land uses.

The heekular-oriented land uses and glute include drive-throughs, gas stations, oil change facilities.

So it strikes me that the land uses that are proposed are the exact opposite of what the official land use plan calls for.

And I'm wondering if a mistake was made very early on in the process that has never really been brought to uh the planning commission's or the town council's attention.

Thank you.

All right, thank you.

Look into our town manager to definitely loop back with us on this.

We've had many people speak on this, but I don't think council has been in the loop on it.

Okay.

Next, we have Colton Johnson.

Good evening.

Uh I'm here to echo my neighbor, Court Patrick's concerns about the development at filing 17.

Um he covered it pretty well, but I'd also I just like to highlight that it what is planned is directly contradicting what the uh use plan is, and it specifically says from you guys' website.

Um vehicular-oriented land uses include drive-throughs, gas station, oil change facilities, and similar services, and as I understand it, all of those are being proposed to go into that area.

So I think either a mistake was made or needs to be reassessed, but I'd like for you guys to look at that.

So thank you.

All right, thank you.

That's all.

Let me get my computer back going here.

Let me just make sure no one else is in the audience who would like to address this tonight.

Who is on the signal in on uh item?

You are yeah, you'll speak during the agenda item.

We have a public hearing in which other people will be able to speak.

Yeah, yeah.

Come on up.

Thank you, Honorable Mayor Moore and Council members.

I almost say trustees, as that's what it was when I was here last.

But um I just want to come say hi.

I'm your state representative Dan Wog, and I will be back in session in January, and just wanted to let you know I'll still be sending you information on legislation that I feel may affect the board and town directly.

So I appreciate your correspondence.

And um, I've been asked by other municipalities to get it out sooner, but frankly, a lot of times the legislation gets to us right before we vote on it.

So I will do my best, and I just appreciate the back and forth and letting me know how you feel about you know these laws that could affect the town.

Uh, obviously, there were quite a few this year that were kind of state over local control, and I did my best to really support that.

You guys know what's best in your own town, and I'll continue to do that.

So just want to thank you and let you know I'll be I'll be working with you in the future here.

All right, uh, representative, appreciate you coming out tonight.

Um, I will be reaching out on another topic, mobile voting.

I don't know if it should get legs or not.

We'll have a chance to to connect on that later on.

Okay, very good, thank you.

Thank you.

And I think we're good.

All right, we're gonna move past uh public comment.

We'll go right into general business, and the first item is item 2512 domestic violence awareness month proclamation for October 2025.

And I'm gonna um uh give the floor to Councilmember Pesromelli, who is gonna read the proclamation.

Thank you, my amount.

October is domestic violence awareness month, and in the United States, we see like one out of four women, and one in nine men experience severe intimate partner related violence in their lifetime.

So we celebrate this month to educate, you know, and spread the awareness.

So whereas domestic violence is a pervasive issue that affects individuals and families across our nation, and the town of Erie is not immune to this.

Whereas the month of October has been designated as domestic violence awareness month, providing an opportunity for communities to come together to raise awareness, support survivors, and work toward the prevention of domestic violence.

Whereas domestic violence can take many forms, including physical, emotional, economic, and psychological abuse, and can affect individuals of all backgrounds, regardless of age, gender, race, and socioeconomic status.

And whereas it is essential for a community to unite in condemning domestic violence and promoting a culture of Pacific Empathy and equality.

And whereas the Town of Council Council is committed to fostering an environment that empowers survivors, holds perpetrators accountable, and educates the public about the prevalence and impact of domestic violence.

Now, therefore, I, Councilmember Anil Pesar Malie, on behalf of the town of Erie, town council, do hereby proclaim the month of October 2025 as domestic violence awareness month, and urge all community members to actively participate in events and activities that promote awareness, prevention, and support for those affected by domestic violence.

I further encourage local organizations, schools, businesses, and residents to participate in the educative initiatives, outreach programs, and supportive services to elevate awareness about domestic violence and contribute to a secure and nurturing community for all.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember Pastor Amelli.

I appreciate you taking the time to read it out loud.

It's such an important topic.

And if there's one thing that I worry about with our police force, it's also the domestic violence calls that they go on.

It's a job I know I could not do, and I appreciate our police officers for helping keep us safe in those uh difficult situations.

Okay, we are going to move on to our second agenda item, which is 25490, a public hearing, a resolution of the town council of town of Erie providing for the supplemental appropriation of money to various funds for the 2025 budget year.

And I'll call up uh Sarah Hancock, our director of finance.

Good evening, Council Sarah Hancock, the director of finance here at the town.

I am joined by our fiscal manager, Cassie Bathon.

Um, this is not going to be a super long presentation, but we do have some key points that we want to chat through so that you know exactly what we're doing with our fleet supplemental.

We know that we have some new council members, so I want you to be very aware of what this process is.

Um fleet supplemental is something that was new as of last year, um, and it came as a um reaction to a change that our provider of our fleet um enterprise um made to their process.

Um we had initially had we had the opportunity of a government right to refuse, um, which allowed whenever the town ordered our vehicles, um, we were able to do so without the appropriation in place.

And then if something changed for us um in our budget process, we were able to cancel those orders um later on.

We now have to actually have the appropriation in place to make those orders, which changed our process.

So last year we actually did a supplemental appropriation um early before the actual budget process, and then we're able to do the ordering and then roll those into the 2026 budget or sorry, 2025 budget, which is what we will be doing for the 2026 budget today.

So this allows us today to appropriate funds for the 2026 fleet purchases in 2025 so that our ordering can take place because we have very long lead times.

Um, and we want to make sure that we go ahead and get those orders in, especially since those lead times do seem to be extending.

We do have several vehicles, I should, it's actually more than several, 24 vehicles that are still um waiting to uh get to us, um, including 13 for our PD department.

So um that all that information is in your packet so that you can kind of look at what we are waiting on.

Um so we want to go ahead and get those orders in now so that we can make sure that we uh have those vehicles available when we need them.

The uh the town is scheduled to replace 26 vehicles and purchase eight new vehicles in 2026.

The cost for the new vehicles will be 141,860.

The cost of new equipment, which includes some dump trucks, lifts, and different types of uh specialty equipment will be 1,422,357, and the total cost for all replacement vehicles and all new equipment will be 2.9 million, um, and that is for all funds, including our fleet and acquisition fund, water fund, wastewater fund, and storm drainage fund.

So with that, uh we are prepared to answer any questions related to it.

We also have our fleet staff and PD staff here ready to answer uh any questions you have related specific to vehicles.

Um otherwise, our recommendation would be to approve the supplemental budget and um we will go ahead and get the vehicles ordered for 2026.

All right, and I probably should have stated before that this is a public hearing after this.

So the public hearing is yes, it's very important and it is open.

Um so I'll ask if um we have any public comment, and I think we have have one.

No?

Actually, we don't um not for this one, it's for the next one.

All right, sounds good.

Um and so with that, I'll bring it back to uh council to see if there are any questions.

Councilmember Hoback.

Um approximately how many of these are replacement now we're new, an increase to the fleet.

So we are replacing 26 vehicles and we are purchasing eight new vehicles.

So um, and we I I do know that the replacement schedules, we are trying to elongate them out um and trying to make our vehicles last a little bit longer than we previously had.

Um so I do know that number came down from what we had previously um expected, but I can let if if you have like more um specific questions, we can get Scott to talk through that as well.

That's great.

Thank you.

Of course.

All right, and council member bearer.

Yeah, I just had a oh sorry, did you have something to add?

I can answer that question, Councilman.

Um so the 26 replacement vehicles, we've been able to um reduce those.

We've extended our leases and has also found some cost savings with some of the vehicles we own.

So we've been able to kind of extend those out for a few more years.

So that 26 number has dropped down pretty much to zero.

So we'll be only doing new vehicles for 2026.

That's great, great.

Thank you.

Can I hold one second, Councilman Bear?

I'm gonna turn the floor over to our town attorney for a moment.

Position, please.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Utilities operations and maintenance management.

Thank you for the help there.

Councilmember Barry, you have the floor.

Um, so my question, my original question was answer answered, but um, I was curious about the the ones we're still waiting for for 2025.

Are those included in this budget line item or they're they're paid for out of the 2025 budget?

Those were paid for out of the 2020.

We've set we um appropriated them in the 24 supplemental, they rolled to 25.

Um, so they will be paid for whenever they're received.

Um so they're still sitting there.

Um the the funds are sitting there waiting to be paid out for those.

So if we don't get them before 26, it'll pull over again.

You'll see them in the next supplemental budget.

Yes.

They are paid for.

So similarly, this could happen again with any number of these.

Exactly.

Okay.

Yes.

Okay.

Councilmember March Lero.

So yeah, just clarification on that.

So the money's available in the 2025 budget for what's going to be spent there.

So it doesn't need to come from somewhere else uh to appropriate these.

You mean for the the current the the ones that are we're waiting on, those ones?

Yeah.

So what's going to be spent in 2025 versus 2026?

Exactly.

And is the money in 2025 already in the budget?

Exactly.

What's in 2025 for the ones we're waiting for?

That has already been appropriated.

We're just appropriating this so that we can do the order and then it will roll to 2026 exactly.

Thanks.

Yes.

All right.

Um, so uh I think this might have been answered, but the sorry you said the lease schedule is five years or for yes, it's currently five years, but I think we've elongated that out.

Yes.

Yeah, so our lease schedule is five years for our uh like O and M vehicles and then PDs on a four-year but we've worked with the enterprise to extend our lease out to like a six and a seven year lease.

Um so then that gives us some savings there.

Okay.

And we still get um we've got a curve that we watch to make sure that the value of the vehicle is still in the positive when we do trade it back in.

Gotcha.

Okay.

And then um subsequently on the vehicles we're purchasing, so there's uh two ple uh two pieces were uh replacing from that.

Um I assume we've reached total depreciation on those.

So is that or what what's the depreciation schedule for the nine that were so those are totally new vehicles?

Um yeah, and I'm sorry, I misspoke, and that was what um that was what Scott was clarifying.

We don't actually we were able to extend out the life of the 26.

So we actually aren't replacing any of those vehicles.

So the eight that we're putting in there are completely new.

So that was my mistake.

Oh, okay.

So we're actually not replacing any, we're just buying the new eight um that are going to be for additional needs in the fleet.

Okay, so typically on what's the lifespan on on the new vehicles.

We'll look to you, Scott.

Okay.

So he's the example.

Or cost of repair over you know its value.

Okay, yeah, thank you.

All right.

All right.

Councilman Pennsylvania.

So uh are there any electrical vehicles or plans to move to electrical?

Yes.

So several of these are electric vehicles, and we do have a um EV purchasing guidance, um, you know, procurement type of it's not a policy, but it it helps us guide us.

Um and so we do have a lot of vehicles that we um you know if we have that option, we prefer to make those purchases.

Yes, we have a EV first policy that we'll review with every division to see what vehicle can be an EV.

Um if it is or it can be an EV, then we'll take that option.

Um obviously right now there's some EVs that uh due to you know size, complexity, things like that, we just can't do like our snow equipment, but our administrative vehicles um and some of our kind of daily drivers, yes, we've started turning those into EVs or a hybrid unit.

And I can tell you just looking at the list here, three of the eight are um EV or EV hybrids.

Thank you.

All right, any other questions?

Council O'Connor.

Thank you.

I was just curious.

Um, how do you make the determination of what's more cost effective to purchase um long term or to lease, which how do you make that differentiation?

I will like to to Scott on that as well.

Yeah.

It's a it's a combination of a lot of things.

Um I know from a budget perspective, we're always just weighing the the needs of of what funding is available.

Um, but in terms of replacement costs and what um is the what's best for the organization, I'll let Scott speak to that.

Didn't you repeat the question again?

Sorry.

I was just curious what um what how do you determine, say is it more cost effective to purchase the vehicle or to lease the vehicle long term?

Right.

So we we had done an evaluation several years ago that had determined, and it was before my time in this position, but it was determined that going through a lease program was better for us uh budget wise, um, because we would have the lease payments rather than like the lump sum of each vehicle, which also extended the um amount of vehicles that we could request.

As as you all know, the town is growing.

Uh we need staff, we need vehicles, so doing a lease program was able to allow us to increase the amount of vehicles we have at a budget that was more reasonable for everybody to swallow.

Thank you.

Okay, I don't have any other uh questions, so I'm gonna close the public hearing and um see if there's um any more comments before I'll see if there's a motion to approve.

All right, I'll see if there's a motion to approve.

Get back to it.

Resolution 25156.

Motion to approve.

We have a motion to approve uh councilmember Petstromelli and a second, Councilmember Hoback.

All in favor, say aye.

Aye.

All opposed, say no.

All right, we have uh got new approval to buy some new vehicles.

Thank you for your time.

Appreciate it.

All right, and then I'm gonna ask our attorney for a point of clarification.

I was gonna ask you the same thing.

Okay, uh, so mine's on the next topic.

Do you want to same?

Okay, so uh public comment.

We have um words in our public script that says public comment is for anything not on the agenda.

But the next item coming up, which I think some people are here to speak about, it's not a public hearing, so there isn't actually a place for public comment.

That's correct.

So should have that have been handled at the normal.

Yes.

Okay, so with that in mind, I think what I'd like to do is go back to public comment and anybody that would like to speak on any other agenda item.

Um, we can do that at this time.

I I think that's a good idea.

I think it's the next two items.

We are it is the these are not public hearings, just to be clear.

And so, yes, if you want public comment or if anyone wants to make public comment on the next two items, it will not be allowed during the item.

So if they want to make it now, probably the best idea.

That's good.

And then I'll look to our town manager item three on the script.

I think needs to be updated to accurately reflect um that all right.

I just did that because you've done it in the past.

So my apologies.

Yeah, no worries.

So the two people that are still scheduled are scheduled for the next item.

So let's bring them up.

Okay.

Uh let's see here.

Clifford Swart.

Hi, Clinton's Morris.

I live at 1654 Woodward Street.

And District One.

Mayor Pro Tim Bell.

Town Councilors.

First of all, I want to say I appreciate your service to this community.

And I know it's mostly a volunteer position.

And you have differences of opinion amongst you, but you're all dedicated to this town.

And I'm grateful for that.

I'm here to speak tonight about the page property in particular.

And I sent a this is actually in an email that I sent right before the meeting, so you can refer back to that.

I believe the development on the page property risk violation of ordinance 152022.

And I'll repeat that.

I believe the development on the page property risk violation of ordinance 152022's open space requirements by not adhering to its requirements for what open space tax proceeds can be spent on.

The three options being presented tonight would break up the open space land into a donut shape of undevelopable developable green area, effectively destroying the habitat for some species.

In addition, views of the mountains would be spoiled by development for much of the remaining land that has views.

Given habitat destruction for the entire site and bucolic mountain view and lamination, I submit that development would alter the remaining land classification from open space to green space parks and office space.

In addition, OSTAB has determined that open space lands in the proposals do not meet open space requirements.

And that's in your packet tonight as a memorandum from OSTAB.

So we have a nice block of land, and this is what it would look like for open space.

It would look like a donut with development in the middle of it.

So we didn't have a graph a 3D model tonight, so that's kind of my 3D model.

So for the ordinance, protect wildlife habitat for my walkthrough of the property with OSTAB and council members.

One major concern is with development is that wildlife.

20 seconds.

Thank you.

All right.

Thank you.

I think you said we had one more.

One more.

George Walk.

I'm gonna pass for an hour if you misunderstood how this procedure was gonna happen.

Okay.

Would anybody else like to talk to us about the page property tonight?

All right, with that, then we're gonna launch right into uh the discussion.

Uh so this item is 25483 Village of Cole Creek uh concept plan option.

The options and is Allie here tonight.

All right, Dig Studios is here, and uh Sir Normella, who's our planning director, uh is also here.

Good evening, council.

I'm Allie Burkhalter, senior planner with the planning division, and also the project manager for the village at Cole Creek Concept Plan.

I'm joined by Dig Studios.

He'll be presenting in a little bit, Bill Vytek and Bryce Gellers.

Tegler, sorry.

And they'll be presenting in just a short while.

I'm also joined here by Sarah Normella, our director of planning and development.

For this presentation, I'll be going through the site history, some funding that we've previously presented, project goals, and then looking at our present focus being the concept plan options tonight, as well as next steps looking forward.

For this site, previously known as Page Property, was identified in our natural areas inventory in 2007, as well as in the PROS plan in 2016 for trail connections.

In 2022, two separate efforts took place.

The town council identified affordable housing as a priority with land purchases as one of the strategies to accomplishing that priority, and separately, OSTAB identified the property, the page property as a high priority acquisition.

Then in October 2023, the land was purchased as a joint effort.

In 2023, OSTAB did look at purchasing the whole site, and it was decided to be a joint effort between ARPA and TNAC funds as a joint partnership.

And that looked like a split purchase 50-50 with roughly 3.3 in TNAF funds for open space restoration trail connections and then $3.3 million in ARPA for a mixed income neighborhood.

Additionally, there was approximately $300,000 of ARPA funds to cover this planning contract with Dig Studios to do the concept plan and zoning, as well as some various site preparations, which included a warehouse demolition, bond evaluation, some of the due diligence we needed to proceed with a mixed income neighborhood.

Future development of the site, if we were to proceed, would include TNAC funds for the open space retro restoration and trail connection.

Separately, it's a separate item tonight, would be potentially facilities impact funds for parks and open space expansion.

And then lastly, if future development were to occur on the site, we'd be looking for a neighborhood developer to partner with the town for that.

For open space restoration, which you'll see allocated open space in the upcoming concept plans.

Spine Trail Connections, which you'll see as well.

The Riparian Corridor Protection Habitat Preservation, that's a mouthful.

That's our Coal Creek corridor.

And so the upcoming concept plans do maintain our 150-foot coal creek setback to allocate for that preservation.

And then lastly, office and equipment storage space, which will be later discussed.

The ARPA funding indicated a mixed income neighborhood.

And so just to clarify, that did not mean 100% affordable housing.

So it could allocate for different opportunities of different income levels to meet that description of a mixed income housing neighborhood.

But really, we were looking at diversifying our housing supply within walking distance of Old Town with the idea that also a lot of our old town businesses are looking for workforce housing for their employees to be able to live close to where they're working.

So those were the original goals in mind.

Right now, our present focus tonight here is to review some draft concept plan options.

The idea would be to narrow down a direction for us to move forward on a more developed final concept plan that we'd bring back to this council in November after speaking with the community and planning commission.

I should note Ostab as well, sorry.

And so we would go back to our stakeholders to the community to planning commission with a final concept plan that's kind of been narrowed down.

And that would allow us to kind of come to consensus on how we want to move forward before we move to the zoning application.

I'll get more into detail with the looking ahead, but the zoning application would be quasi judicial, so that's why we're having all these conversations now to hopefully get council feedback and direction.

So that's why we're having all these conversations now to hopefully get council feedback and direction.

So I just want to give some parameters for our concept options.

Each concept option that Dig Studios will be going through has two categories to allocate for the TNAC allocation and for the ARPA funding allocation.

So we kind of started big bubble, how we doing that 50-50 split.

Next we uh went into another layout layer of the three zoning categories we'd be looking for.

For the parks and open space facility, we would be looking for a public land institutional zoning category to allow for that use to be used on the site.

You can't uh do the parks and open space facility on open space zoning.

And then we'd look for reserved open space as our second category.

And then lastly, we'd be looking for the agricultural holding.

We chose agricultural holding as a zoning category based on the April conversations with council.

What this allows us to do is hold the land.

It's in the title holding.

We'll hold the land.

It does not allow for development.

At a future point, were we to choose to move forward on the site with any type of development, we would be back at council with a rezoning to do anything.

So that allows us to uphold the original intentions of the ARPA land purchase funds and just hold the site.

So those are the three categories.

We get into a little bit more detail, just labeling things to help us move the conversation along.

But that's kind of the big two bubbles, TNAC versus ARPA funding, and then the three zoning categories that you'll see from our team with Dig.

Um lastly, I do want to just let you guys know there is site access shown.

I know we love to get into the weeds of transportation.

Um I just want to say that those are for us to understand feasibility, and that would be part of future down the road neighborhood flats if we ever got to it.

It was just an understanding of what we need to know so that we could draw some bubbles.

Um so I take that with a grain of salt as we move forward into those conversations.

But I hope you guys recognize that this was almost a two-year effort of site analysis that got us to this point, and I hope that we can move forward from these three options.

And I'll hand it off to Dig.

Okay.

Great.

Thank you, Allie, for setting that broader framework.

Good evening, Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem, members of the council.

I'm Bill Vitech.

I'm the co-founders and senior principal with Dig Studio.

Dig Studio is a land planning landscape architecture and urban design firm.

My colleague Bryce Tigler is here with me as well.

And Allie, do we have Chris online as well with LSC?

Our transportation uh traffic consultant, Chris McGranahan with LSC may be online as well.

Although, as Ali just said, I don't think we're gonna be getting into too much of the of the traffic analysis and those types of.

Yeah, he is online.

Level of the process we're in at this point in time.

So just to set the context, and I think you you know this probably the site very well, but just for everyone's benefit, um, the piece of property about 46.5 acres that we're talking about is the white um parcel identified there in the middle.

Uh to the north is um County Road 1.5 to the east is the RTD easement.

Um to the uh kind of south and west is um Cole Creek, and then also um Cheeseman uh street also has an access point to the site, but across a bridge that is really not up to any type of current roadway standards.

So um so um in terms of broader context to the neighbors, um obviously the uh Colliers Hill neighborhood to the east and the Northridge development um to the um to the north as well across County Road 1.5.

So and then in close proximity to the jacency to the the older part of downtown Uri.

So that's just our broader kind of regional context, if you will.

A couple photographs of the site itself.

Uh the upper left photo, and we've keyed these on the plan there as well to show which way the view is taken or the photograph is taken in terms of the arrow.

So the first one in the upper left is a view looking south, um, kind of across the um the open area of the site looking, you can kind of see to the right uh County Road 1 and a half, and that slight incline is up to where the Cottonwood ditch extension is located.

Uh photograph number two is looking north, um, very close to County Road 1.5, looking where the trail that exists today along the Cottonwood Ditch crosses County Road 1.5 and goes into the North Ridge neighborhood.

So the house you see there is part of the North Ridge neighborhood to the north.

Uh the third photograph in the middle on the left is a view looking west, and kind of apologize.

The day was not quite as dreary and rainy as today when we were out here.

Um there was a partly cloudy condition, but there are and into the to the requirements of T Nakawadnab, we were we were very sensitive to the views that we see, and that's really why we're highlighting these.

And I again I apologize the photographs really don't show them.

But from viewpoint number three, you do get a very good view of the front range mountains.

Um then um, and I should also point out too that when we have we've done several site walks with town staff as well as Ostab members, so uh we've been very helpful, been very helpful to get their input as we've done these site walks.

Um view number four is looking close from the um the existing pond that's on the property again to the west, and you get again a great view of the mountains from that location, and then view number five is looking across the existing uh water body pond to the can to the northwest with views to the mountains, and then view number six in the lower right-hand corner is a view looking across the the broader, flatter area of the site looking from south to north.

So just to set the context of what you know, some of the characteristics from a view standpoint are uh on the property because that's um obviously an important consideration for for the community as a whole and the views from the trails and views from the open space itself.

So this drawing is our opportunities and constraints drawing.

Whenever we start a project like this, we like to uh obviously look at what the site is telling us, what are the physical characteristics and factors that are shaping the site.

Uh I would point out that you know kind of the the call-out bubbles that we have here.

Um identified in the light green is A is an area that is probably the le is the flattest that could be most suitable for whatever type of development would come down the road.

Um it has the uh gentle topography.

Um it is not constrained by uh items B and C, which are um other um easements or water bodies or floodways.

So um particularly where item C is in those blue areas, those are the floodplains from uh Cole Creek, and um as well as uh B is identifying again the pond property that is on site.

There's also a series of uh easements that go across the site in the lower uh part of the site to the south.

There's a sewer easement that is um cuts across the site, as well as in the upper part of the site toward the north, there is uh kind of in that ochre color is a uh high is the high um uh tension uh power line that goes across the site and continues both east and west across Erie.

Um to the um the the green um darker green kind of corridors you see and in some of the yellow area, light yellow areas are arrows are defining where we believe the best views are from the existing cottonwood uh ditch extension, which again we see as a maintaining that and being part of a connector that tries to ties to the whole Coal Creek system, continues on and then goes across uh County Road 1.5 as well.

And then additionally, you'll see some uh dark green uh symbol around the the actual um old page property homestead, which is probably the most significant stand of vegetation on the site around where the old um house was and and uh uh barn facilities as well.

And later today, I think you'll hear tonight you'll hear about the parks and open space facility, which sits up above that ridge.

So essentially the cottonwood uh ditch extension is a uh elevational change in the overall uh topography of the of the of the property, and there's a there is some slope uh condition that comes down off of that ditch, uh ranging in a difference of a differential from anywhere from about five to fifteen feet in terms of elevation difference, and so to maintain that ditch and that trail and to maintain that slope, that yellow area is defining this.

So all this said is meant to depict that there's a lot going on on this property, even though it looks like a wide open piece of of land.

You've got easements, you've got slope, you've got ditches, you've got floodplain, and so all of that led us to these first preliminary concept diagrams.

And I want to stress preliminary and I want to stress concept.

And so this again was came from our site analysis, our feedback from from Ostab in the in the town, and these just begin to define if there were to be future development on this property.

You know, how could it possibly um lay out?

One of the the bigger concerns to be further studied as we move along is access off of County Road 1.5.

Because again, we don't believe that permanent access off of Cheesman is feasible relative to the existing conditions of that bridge and the cost of building a new bridge that would meet new standards.

Um it could potentially, in discussions with staff, serve as an emergency access point, but it's not intended to be a permanent roadway connection.

So with that, um there are uh multiple these options really show the options one, two, and three identify in the kind of the the maroon reddish color where potential um uh buildable land could be in the future based on all the site constraints.

Um this first option shows an access point in alignment with Northridge Road.

Um there are some concerns about that relative to proximity to um the trail of Cottonwood Ditch uh that crosses not too far, probably about 200 feet further to the north, as well as then the new future access point that would align with um uh Fletcher Drive and the new uh access point for the parks facility on the upper land upper land of the site.

So this option does show uh if you look at the chart on the right, um, does show and I'll kind of work from from bottom to top, it does show that the agricultural holding uh area would be about 21 acres.

The parks and open space facilities, and again, that's the area that's consistent across all these options.

That's the land that's up beyond um Cottonwood Ditch extension on the plateau to the east.

Uh that's nine acres.

And then the what we have identified identified is town open space, both east and west, are two parcels that kind of buffer um both from a topographic standpoint and uh and a distance standpoint buffer with open space to the east and the west side of what potentially could be developable area.

So this has the most um acreage in terms of that uh potential agricultural holding uh classification.

I can go through all these and then answer questions on any of them at the end.

Okay.

Option number two, um, and again I'll work from from an acreage standpoint, but but essentially option number two, I should have pointed this out on option number one.

That did bring that kind of developable area all across the frontage where it could occur where it's not limited by site or natural features along one point uh County Road 1.5.

Option number two shows kind of a balance of open space along County Road 1.5 and some developable area in terms of the ag holding uh with a site or a separation distance of about 500 feet from the current North Ridge Drive.

Um so that one point of access, we're kind of showing some dashed lines in here into that red area again, which is about 18.4 acres.

Um however this would lay out in an eventual detailed site plan, you know, that would be more more um uh developed with whatever type of development occurs in terms of the layout of internal roads.

But really, what would be key is that access point.

Again, the parks and open space land to the east is nine acres, and then we're identifying two larger parcels of open space east and west, uh 11.6 acres to the east, kind of a broader buffer, if you will, along the um slope area and the um cottonwood ditch extension and an area to the west that encompasses the boulder ditch as well as um the floodplain area.

We do think that there is some potential in all these options for that area that is floodplained to be some sort of uh amenitized uh town open space in terms of adding to the open space acreage of overall.

So we have to be careful of what that is based on flood constraints, but that does have some potential for some uh passive amenitized recreation.

Option number three is illustrating uh again an access point of about 400 feet from Northridge Drive with a can with a roadway that would um come through an open space buffer along County Road 1.5, and then um have a have the development ag holding potential development parcel more interior to the site itself.

Again, from an acreage standpoint, that would only be about 16 and a half acres in terms of the of the ag holding zoning.

Uh the again the public um open space land remains the same at nine acres, and the open space along 1.5 along Cole Creek is a buffer to Reliance Park and again a buffer to the Cottonwood ditch, that open space acreage increases um in terms of we've identified that as a TNAC uh land use open space area uh increases to about 21 acres.

So those are our quick bubble, I call them bubble concept diagrams.

Um we we you know it it's interesting when we look at the physical characteristics of the site.

A lot of times it's a broad wide open site, you can do a lot of things, particularly with this site.

There are a lot of constraints and a lot of physical features, both man-made and natural that do kind of suggest where ultimate potential development could occur.

So I'll stop there and answer any questions you may all have, or anything else, Al, you want me to emphasize?

Yeah, I'll just add um there's two acres or protected view shed shown through the ag holding area.

Um we'd anticipate that those two acres be part of be included in the ag holding zoning acreage.

But what we'd anticipate is that a neighborhood would need a pocket park for our requirements, and so that's what we'd kind of anticipate would be that it would be part of the ag holding zoning, but there would be no developed housing within that view corridor, but it could be something that would be the neighborhood amenity like a pocket park.

So just clarifying that kind of overlap of view shed and the ag holding area, and that's consistent between the three options.

Thank you for pointing that out, Allie.

I should have done that as well.

Um and and just to say about those where we're identifying these kind of green bars, you know, they may eventually flare.

They're shown here about 80 feet in width.

Um, but what we we did locate those based upon our several sidewalks that we did have in our kind of initial conversations or from our sidewalk with Ostab as well.

So those may shift around, those may orient slightly, but I think the fundamental principle is that there would be these defined view corridors where ultimately when you did get to a more developed uh development plan that those view corridors would be preserved, preserving from protecting those key points along the Cottonwood Extension Ditch and the views to the mountains to the west.

Okay, I think before I open it up to council, there's uh two other items that are kind of big picture that maybe you can address.

Um the first is the ordinance for open space that was mentioned during public comment.

Does that apply?

I am joined by Kathy Crone and with representing parks in the rack department.

But it looks like we might get a guest appearance by Patrick Hammer for this.

Yes, for um just for council, we do have Kathy Crone with Parks and Recreation Department, and we do have John Feruzzi for any transportation comments.

Okay.

Thanks.

Good evening, Mayor and Council Mayor.

If I'm understanding your question correctly, is the use of TNAC funds appropriate for the project?

Am I capturing the question correctly?

Yeah, I well, I think that uh there's a question on whether we have um we have um ordinances, right, that talk about what open space is, and we've used open space funding to purchase half of this property.

Are we if we go through with any of these concept pan plans, are any of them in violation of our current ordinances regarding open space?

Uh they are not.

Um, and we prior to the purchase ran that through legal council.

You remember when um we I guess 2022, um again, the year 23 went back to the voters to extend the TNAC fund.

T and TNAC actually stands for trail.

I know it it tends to draw people immediately to open space.

Um at that time, given the property conditions.

So kind of taking us back when we purchased it, had an illite illegal concrete operation on it.

The site is encumbered with utilities.

At that time, the draw was to put a trail corridor through.

The TNAC language very clearly states trail development, trail corridors, enhancing trail corridors, establishing trail corridors is appropriate use of the fund.

So the 3.

No, I think they if I'm remembering the original request from Ostab was to purchase half the property for open space and trail preservation.

And at that time, as the parks and rec director, which was my role then, we were looking at the eastern half of the property.

Um, because it had continuity to the open space to the east, Collier's Hill.

Um, and the trail corridor and the ridge line.

All right, I guess I'm a little confused.

Let me come back to Allie just for a minute.

I may come back over there.

Um I I've read Ostab's note or a memo to us, right?

And and I'll just read one paragraph.

I mean, it goes into greater detail, but it says those two O stab and town staff had a productive and candid discussion about the site, which was purchased in 2023.

Um, using approximately half of the TNAC and half of ARPA funds since the property was purchased.

Most members of OSTAB have had an opportunity to walk the site and evaluate its potential uh meeting the goals for open space and trails set forth in the town's unified development code, parks, recreation, open space and trails, the PROS documents.

For example, the UDC requires dedicated open space particle parcels to meet multiple criteria, but the most important are minimum size of 10 acres, minimum width of 300 feet, and uh wherever possible contiguous with existing town open space.

Uh they go on to say, in our opinion, none of these three concepts meet these requirements.

You just address that.

Yeah, I can clarify.

So I'm looking at uh code section 1063 and characteristics of open space to be dedicated.

Standard criteria for an open space.

So what we looked for was a minimum of 10 contiguous acres.

So we are looking at this open space as being contiguous with the Coal Creek Corridor, and that uh to the south of the pond, I would I'm not sure if it has a designated area name, but we're seeing it as contiguous with through alliance park area and the Colt Creek Corridor, as well as everything with um to the east of the RTD right-away being the Colliers Hill open space dedicated.

So we're seeing it as contiguous with that as far as the acreage.

Um the second criteria is a parcel no less than 300 feet at the narrowest width, unless town approves a lesser amount for a trail.

So our understanding would be that with the Coal Creek uh corridor, we are required by other code sections to maintain a 300-foot corridor.

So we'd be looking to maintain that within any future zoning, and then along the trail, the spine trail corridor that would follow the cottonwood ditch extension, that being the lesser because it's a trail corridor.

Um so those were the interpretations that staff had for those requirements.

All right.

I will I will work to process that.

I'll bring it back to council now for um for questions, and I think I'll just start with our mayor pro tem and work our way uh around.

Sure.

Thank you, Mayor.

Uh thank you for the presentation.

Um let me first ask uh of staff with the allotment that we did this 50-50 split.

We have different on these three different options here.

Uh there's different allotments, obviously, to the amount that it's um would would be to the ag holding uh zone.

Is there any issue there with we we don't necessarily have to make the land indication 5050 based on the fact that we split those funds?

Is there any requirements we had for ARPA?

My understanding from conversations with director of finance Sarah Hancock is that the land purchase is complete, so we would not be reporting back to that.

We for sure did 5050.

Okay.

I guess we got that.

It's not to be repetitive.

Sorry, we operate whenever we're called Sarah Hancock, director of finance.

Um, yes, so the way that this particular ARPA project um worked, and we did consult with the legal team on this to confirm this as well as um ensure that we were in alignment with the final rule that came out with the ARPA requirements.

Once the project, once we purchase the land and we reported that to ARPA, that project is considered closed.

Um so we have no other additional reporting requirements.

Um so we can hold this land as long as we need to.

Um there are no additional reporting requirements.

So we are good on that.

Now anything we spend in addition to that with new ARPA funds, that's a totally different story.

But for this, we're good to go.

Gotcha.

Okay, thank you.

Um my second question with these three different options.

Uh do we have any idea on uh you know, I see number of acres, but do we do we have an idea of like number of units that we'd be looking for for each of those?

No, we remove that from the scope of work based on the idea of delaying the housing.

Okay, okay, all right.

Um so then I guess and uh John, you might be ready for this because this is uh gonna be a transportation question.

Um I guess my question is with these three options here, since we don't really know potentially the number of units in here.

I assume that if for normal development, if it has I don't know, it's just say something that has 200 units in it.

Uh with the normal development, do we have requirements for number of in ingress egress access, um uh types of uh entryways, whether it's right in right out as stop sign or whatnot, and and what what dictates that, I guess.

Sure.

Um John Ferruzzi, Transport Mobility Manager with the public works department.

Um so I'll probably provide some information on my end, but also uh calling Chris McGranihan who helped and I uh provide analysis related to the site on the traffic front.

We we did have a little bit of analysis that went with this project to help um uh questions like this.

So we looked at the roadway classifications associated with um any of the uh access points uh that are proposed to and from the site.

Looking at that, our engineering standards does have spacing associated with access points, with how um that would be configured and laid out.

So that's what's shown with the concept at this high level.

But the actual uh number of lanes, uh turn lanes, acceleration, deceleration, any of the configuration associated with any units or trip generation associated with that site was not evaluated because we don't know how many units exactly or how many um trip trips are being generated from the type of land use at this site.

So uh the roadway layout information is available related to our transmission mobility plan, how things kind of work as an overall um uh from overall site perspective.

But um we and access is possible possible to and from that site, but the number of access points, the number of lanes, any of that other kind of information uh was not evaluated as that is kind of the next level of uh information beyond a concept plan.

Um so I'll turn it over to Chris to kind of uh provide some information about what was evaluated and what exists currently.

Maybe that might help answer their questions.

Yeah, thank you.

This is Chris, I've been muted.

Is it can anyone hear me?

Yes, yes.

Thank you.

Great, glad to hear it's working fine.

Uh so I am Chris McGranihan.

I'm with LSC Transportation Consultants, 1889 York Street, Denver, uh 80206.

Uh thanks, John, for the introduction.

Yes, we helped the town out with some high-level transportation items.

We conducted some traffic counts.

We you know, looked at some of the access plans that Bill showed earlier.

But my expectation doing traffic studies for a living is that if we end up with 150 or 200 units, my expectation would be that one access point would be sufficient.

Whether we wanted a second one or not, we may be debatable, but I think one access point would be sufficient.

And I would expect a stop sign, uh stop sign the approach uh to the public right-a-way would be sufficient.

I wouldn't expect roundabouts or traffic signals to be needed.

Uh certainly something that John suggested we can look into further once we get a more concrete plan down the road.

But for right now, you know, I'm not I'm not envisioning signals, roundabouts, potentially a turn lane or two uh entering the site.

That's definitely possible.

But I think uh what everyone else has said has been a good representation of what we looked at.

I think we've got three likely access points that are possible.

They're all 400 feet or more from an existing road, or they align with an existing road.

And so that that's pretty much what I'll leave it at unless anyone has any more questions.

Thank you.

That's almost um so uh lastly I'm just gonna go because I think we're looking for some direction here.

Um I I feel a bit uh and I understand the scope of what we did here, but if you've ever seen the movie Moneyball, I feel a bit like Billy being in the scene where they're going over different prospects for the season, and sits our so who do you want, Billy?

And he goes, none of them.

Um I my biggest issue with the site, and it this has gone on before we started this is the fact that at County Road one and a half really having access off there.

Our only choices are really to come down onto Briggs, which I think they're uh obviously running through businesses and that sort of thing.

Um, then we have access on the cheeseman.

Um which you know, we have the housing now at Cheeseman.

I guess you could take Evans, but you're kind of running into the other end uh of that part of the development.

Um I do have concerns um about this kind of fitting in between um uh cottonwood and boulder ditch, and just some of the topography issues that we have trying to fit development and and this then corridor in there.

Um the one thing I will say is the the parks and open space facility, I think where it's placed here.

I I think is fine.

Um if if I'm forced to choose one of these, I I think I would choose option three, um, because I think that has at least less impact on uh the north ridge development, and I think it provides a little bit more of a buffer between um the the Boulder Ditch, Boulder Creek, and and Cottonwood.

Um it's a very odd shaped property, so I'll just leave it that way.

If I can just clarify the Cheesman Street access would only be for emergency access, emergency vehicles just to clarify.

Sure, yeah, thanks.

Hey, Councilmember O'Connor.

Thank you.

So in the background report, um, there's a couple sentences uh describing the hydraulic concerns with developing the land west of the pond since it is approximately 10 to 15 feet lower in elevation and potential risks to proposed development include seepage or embankment failure.

The structural integrity of the embankment should be assessed and documented.

Is there been any thoughts on costs and how that would impact any development to the west?

Yeah, we did um another member of our team, JVA uh engineers did look at that issue.

And as you probably know, most of these kind of what may be considered a dam or not a dam is always run by the state.

Um they reviewed that and and don't feel that there are any issues with that embankment or its stability.

Okay.

And we separately had a pond analysis provided by respec.

Um that was to determine if the pond could be used as a recreational amenity, which is what we're envisioning, but with that, it also evaluated the pond.

Um, so that's really just suggesting the small amount of buffering, as you can kind of see in this um concept plan.

The amount of buffering we would have between the pond and potential housing.

What kind of recreational activities were determined that could be done there?

Oh, I think that's a future conversation with our lovely parking directory.

Okay.

We just uh that was to determine if the pond needed to be removed or something to happen with the pond.

Um so that evaluation just determined that we could keep it and use it as part of the open space area.

Okay.

Um in the three concepts.

Um, well, in Ostab's memo, they mentioned, however, there are still excellent views to the southwest, which were not shown in any option.

Why were there no um view was it view shed options?

Um focusing on the southwest and the concepts.

So my understanding for my meetings with Ostab would be um roughly view number one as indicated on the presentation would be a view to the south to towards old town.

Um, and so we were looking at what the protected views would be, and we were focusing mostly on protected views of the mountains.

Um at the time we weren't really protecting views to old town as a priority.

Um so that was kind of our uh prioritization of use sheds to protect us to the mountains and not south to old town.

If that is a priority, we can also evaluate that in our next steps.

Um and we can also look at what potential with modeling the housings would impede views south of blocking to or old town.

Okay, but it's mostly that view number one that's being shown.

And then um Ostab was also directing view five that is shown is from the center point of um the pond, and I'm gonna do some quick togling on your screens.

So view five is from the midpoint of the pond, looking west towards the mountains as an option versus you'll see on these well, even on the constraints.

Um the view is aligned at the south end of the pond to kind of align with cheeseman um street, and we thought that was a better view.

Um, but we can definitely reprioritize to what's indicated as number five, if that's a more um preferred view.

Um our understanding would be that vegetation and such around the pond would be preserved.

So the south end of the pond could be kept open.

Makes sense.

Thank you.

Okay.

Council member Peterson LI.

Yeah, I had a few questions.

So my first one is like what was the criteria used for buying it?

So it is open space plus housing, right?

So what due diligence do we do before buying I'll start with Sarah Normella, planning and development director.

So we did do environmental analysis, just uh initial one um for the site as part of our due diligence, but um in terms of the the criteria um for ARPA, we had established that it would be for a mixed income neighborhood and the uh funds that had been allocated for that purchase were just overall a part of our work towards uh achieving affordable housing.

That's what we had identified, the ARPA funds, the majority of the ARPA funds for.

And so this purchase was consistent with the intent of those funds.

So um analysis was done to build affordable housing in that place, right?

And it is buildable.

We did a well, we did a phase one analysis.

Um the site had already had existing development on there, and so from our understanding of the existing development, we knew that we could have development on the site.

We did the phase one environmental to make sure that it was safe for housing.

So that was an important piece for us.

And the further due diligence of doing the um uh the analysis of the pond was also to determine was it safe and would we need to take it out?

So all of these were steps that we took to ensure it could be developed.

We knew that it was constrained with floodplain for a portion and that part of it certainly was going to serve for open space and trails.

That was my another question.

Like will there be flooding because looks like C and B are uh water bodies, right?

And potential flooding have we uh checked that fact or um we have looked pretty extensively at the the floodplain there and I don't know um I think that would be something that we would have to look even further into in the in terms of the history of any floods that may have extended beyond, but that's would certainly be uh what we could address with the development in terms of how high we cite the homes.

So uh another uh clarification was like with the funds that we took for affordable housing, is there any minimum that we need to build or no, we didn't.

It was 10%.

Twelve percent.

Is it 10%?

I don't know if we actually we didn't uh we our goal was to hit 12%.

Um and we may have identified potentially it at minimum a 10% portion of the homes being affordable.

We did want to have a mixed income neighborhood so that we could have a whole range of incomes accommodated here.

So we had not though narrowed in on what that percentage was.

It could be 100, it could be 50, could be less.

Yeah.

Another question was from the public comment.

I was not clear about ordinance 15 2022.

Will that it will it be a violation?

Uh the resident said it's a violation of open space requirements.

Ordinance 15 2022.

No.

It's okay.

Thank you.

That's all I had.

Yeah.

Councilman, if I could just address your issue too on the flooding for one second.

Um obviously the what we're identifying here is what's the current FEMA mapping, which has been updated.

But if there is development that would occur on the site in the future phase, then the amount of detention and water quality, et cetera, that would be generated by uh more um impervious surface on the site would then lend itself or would would it would require on site you know detention as well.

So that would be a part of a future study, but uh what we do have is the latest information that's available in terms of defining the floodplain today.

Thank you.

And our consultant, JBA engineering worked closely with our capital improvement project engineer Wendy Palmer on the Col Creek Restoration.

As you guys know, that project's ongoing.

So they did coordinate to make sure that they have the most up-to-date information for what that would look like when Col Creek is fully restored.

So just an extension to that, sorry.

Um will there be like species that'll be affected as a habitat restoration or no?

That was part of our wetlands report.

I'm forgetting the exact title of the report, but we do a threatened endangered species and wetland report.

Okay that encap encapsulates all of that.

And so um areas might be identified as potential habitat, like they make a good home for those.

And then it was further indicated in the report that nobody has made it home in those locations, even though it's you know ripe for that.

So that was part of our reports as part of the site analysis.

Just making sure like this place is uh good to build, and it has all the like met all the requirements.

Yes, I like option one, which has more options.

Thank you.

Okay, coming down to Councilmember Hoback.

Thank you.

Um what's the this isn't exactly 50-50, right?

Between how much leeway do we have in that allocation?

I mean, it's it's kind of a fairness and appropriateness and intent question as opposed to legal, I would guess, because this is all town land, right?

All town funds.

I'll just note that while we split the um the cost of the purchase of the land 50-50, um, the developable land could be argued to have a higher um purchase price because it is developable versus open space.

And so when you look at our how we distribute the land, I think that it's still a fair purchase and split.

Okay.

Um thank you.

Um I think most of my other questions have been asked.

Um, um I do know Ostab was interested in uh uh more of a view shed over over the pond.

Um that that was one of their uh concerns.

Um thank you for your explanations on the ordinance compliance, uh UDC as well.

Um I do think more discussion is necessary by council on the on the UDC uh component being met or not met.

Um I don't have any other questions.

Are we gonna have discussion after or is this our discussion?

Um before we have a motion.

That's a great question.

Um I'll give us at least one more round.

Um, because I'm I'm my gut tells me we're not ready to make any decisions tonight.

Um, but I don't know that yet.

Okay.

Um yeah, the rest of what I have are comments, so I'll save that.

Okay.

I'll make sure you get a chance to say those.

Uh thanks uh for presentation tonight and uh and all the work uh leading up to it.

Appreciate that.

Um wanted to ask a couple of questions around uh you're not right now that there's no plan for percent.

Uh you mentioned there's no plan for a percent of of affordable housing could be anywhere from 10 to 100 percent.

Is there a target for the AMI um currently?

Um that was original we were going to flush that out a little bit more with the initial contract and scope of this effort, but we don't have that at the moment.

Yeah, so we we had not identified an AMI per se.

Right.

Uh so and all ownership and rental are are big difference.

I'm what I'm concerned about is AMI is up to 120 percent of Boulder County AMI, which is actually you know 20 percent more than the mean of folks who already live, you know, uh that are paying for um t the taxes here, and it's actually 37 percent higher than uh Weld County mean.

So uh that would be my concern.

Um I wanna understand better, you know, the the concerns around the the minimum of of uh 10 acres of continuous uh contiguous uh acreage uh and and the minimum width of of 300 feet.

I want to I wanna understand that concern a little bit better and and um your your comments on it um being on um that we're in line with that uh so those are all my questions, but I do want to have I do have a couple points I want to make and um Mayor, I don't want to interrupt, but this is not set for any sort of a vote.

I'm just right.

I and this is this is where I'm saying my gut says we're not quite ready.

Yeah, you're not ready because it's not on the agenda for a vote.

It's yeah, I mean we can do a vote to give direction, right?

Sure, but I'm not even sure we're quite there yet.

But I could be convinced otherwise.

I want to make sure I listen to all the council members.

Sorry, I just I wanted to clarify that, but I didn't want to interrupt.

So yeah, thanks.

Yeah.

Um so I want to uh also pull something from the Ostab uh uh memo and that you know uh they concluded that this is a unique location um and and amenities uh in this site is irreplaceable and cannot be found elsewhere in Erie due to the topography or uh constraints identified by digs, uh developing a portion of the site for housing would permanently eliminate several of the outstanding features of the property.

For this reason, Ostab does not express a preference for any of the three um village of Cole Creek concept designs.

Instead, Ostab recommends an expanded conceptual vision of the property that includes an option for no development.

But I I also looked at it a a different way.

I I like putting numbers around things, and you know, so I looked at this as a medium density.

Um so at a medium density, uh eight to eighteen units per acre.

So I took 13 um as in the middle.

I looked at 18.4 acres um that would be developable, right?

Uh basically that gives us um you know uh about 240 units.

Um two people per unit, rounded up to about 500 people um for the area.

That would require 8.5 acres that the UDC typically requires a developer to provide.

So um you have 18.6 acres that are dedicated uh to open space, and I I took option two.

Um so that leaves about 10 acres that um not required.

Uh oh 10 acres of open space that isn't part of the 8.5 that would be required by a developer, which is about 21 percent.

Um so I took 21 percent of three point you know three million dollars, and it comes out um to be well, I took 21 percent of six point six million dollars, and it comes out to be about one point four six million.

So just a rough thing.

Um not only do you lose the quality of the open space as Ostab pointed out, but the value that they are gonna get for their um 3.3 million dollars doesn't seem to add up to 3.3 million, it's closer to 1.46, and that's not assuming any value for the house and the barn.

So, you know, those are my concerns as well.

So that's all I've got.

All right, thanks.

Councilman Bear.

Okay.

Now I have a bunch of numbers floating around in my head.

Yeah, sorry, um so let's see if I can figure out what my questions are.

Um so in the presentation, you mentioned that um Ostab looked at the it was a high priority for them, and I think that was in the letter that was included.

Um so they wanted to do the joint purchase and able to be able in order to be able to afford the land.

Okay.

Um looking at the draft concepts, um, like Mayor Pro Tembell, I was kind of leaning toward option three.

Um just as far as meeting expectations.

I've always thought of this as a really um uh exciting opportunity to have a a well planned um unique amenity for the town of Erie.

Um in a well-planned neighborhood that could meet some of our housing affordability ability challenges.

Um and also I've I've through going to the old town coffees and um connecting down here with Josh Campbell, um, have chatted with people who are excited to see this turned into trail connectivity and um being able to run on the trails.

One gentleman mentioned there's not enough hills around, and so he likes to run up the hill.

Um, so with that in mind, I was looking at the I believe the wetlands are right across the road that we are having a an open house or opening for very soon, I hope.

Um is there connectivity planned for that?

Like, could you connect from this site to across to reliance is what you're kind of is it yeah, I haven't seen connectivity to the well, oh yeah, great.

Yes, hi, I'm Kathy Crohn.

I'm the development neighborhood services manager, division manager, um, can chitting for Luke Bollinger who's out.

But um to answer that question with the um Coal Creek regional trail planning that's going on called reach two that's coming from Reliance Park up to um County Line Road, we are designing a uh pedestrian bridge crossing that would come from so it's kind of north of Reliance Park, and we would have a crossing over to Erie wetlands if funded.

So we'll get pricing in and determine if we have funding available availability for that.

So that's how it would connect.

So you'd go under the underpass on the existing Cole Creek regional trail from this site.

Right.

Okay.

And then we're working on plans for that to extend.

Okay, great.

So as shown, there's the existing coal creek that would Coal Creek Trail that would go underneath County Road 1.5, where it kind of bends from Brig Street to one and a half.

So that's already existing, though you'd go underneath that bridge.

Um this project did on a few iterations show a pedestrian crossing from what we're labeling amenitized town open space to crossover to Reliance Park.

Um that was a point of discussion, but I think that would be part of a future parks and open space project with whatever the feature holds.

Okay.

Okay.

So then I guess my other question was, and I feel like I hear rumblings of not supporting housing from from some of the members on council.

And so um, if that were the case, and and the intention was to split half and half because this was in a pricey piece of land for Ostab.

Um, I would want to look at the possibility of taking TNAC funds and replenishing our affordable housing funds, knowing that we maybe don't have to return them as ARPA funds, but that they were intended to help us address our housing affordability goals.

Um and so I think that should be part of the discussion if we're if we're leaning in that direction.

So I'll leave my questions there.

Okay.

Thank you.

Um I think I am struggling on this piece of property to do what we're doing, and I've learned a couple things here tonight that at least seemed in conflict with my mind on what I was learning.

I think it was in March when we had the other study session.

When I left that study session, I was under the impression that the TNAC funds is specifically said we had to do affordable housing.

And now I'm learning that it is uh mixed income, which um as I read the actual text, it says that it could include affordable housing, uh, but it um sounds like there is no um requirement to the feds that we do affordable housing.

Is that correct?

That is correct.

Okay, and so that changes my whole just kind of thought process here because I walked out of that meeting thinking, all right.

Well, there's momentum behind this.

We've got money from the feds that say we have to do affordable housing.

We talked about land swaps, right?

Because of the beauty of this land, could we preserve this and then swap it with another piece of land?

I think staff was going back to figure out if there are other pieces of land.

Did was there any work done on that?

Did we seriously look at ways to swap?

So MJ Adams before she left, um, did provide me with a list, and I'll state that that was created in potentially 2022 or 2023 prior to MJ even coming to work for the town, and that was under Ariel, her predecessor, that a list was made of potential sites for affordable housing.

Um all of those sites uh do not match with comp plan designations, zoning, um, or precinct council decisions.

Um so none of those were feasible for us to well, the only one we can change on that is council decisions, so uh maybe you share that with us on what do we what options are we um preventing ourselves from doing.

That was the location at 111th in Arapaho.

Okay.

Was the only location that met our feasibility requirements.

All right, well, let's just talk that through for a second.

So if we swapped and we said that we could preserve this open space, and we did mixed um sorry, just uh getting my my uh term straight here, mixed income there.

Does that mean high density apartments?

Uh we never designated any density, any zoning, any unit counts, so it's really up to whatever our interpretation or intent is to move forward.

We're not even legally bound to do a land swap.

Right, right.

Okay, so so where what where I'm now sitting is hey, this is the hell uh housing development.

Forget about affordable housing and everything else that we were talking about in March.

This is just a housing development right in the middle of a beautiful piece of land that um Ostab has written uh a very well articulated letter saying something seems off here.

Um which leads me to believe that we need more discussion, and um Councilmember Hoback also talked about the ordinance, and I understand our attorney is saying there's no conflict.

I think all of us just need to understand why we've got one group saying there is conflict and why our attorney is saying there is no conflict, because unless we can explain that, um, you know, it it puts us kind of in a an awkward situation.

Um TNAC paid 3.3 million, and so when I look at any of these options, um I don't it doesn't feel like 3.3 million in open space trails benefit.

And I think that's where Councilmember Mortalero was going um with this.

And so what do we do with that, right?

It's you know, TNAC, I think if you asked 10 people or 100 people or a thousand people in town, you know, what what did you vote yes to tax yourself for TNAC?

I doubt that they would say to um um basically get less value out of that money than what we could get out of that money, perhaps on a different site, or to find a way to to preserve this site.

Now, having said all that, I'm not against any of these options ultimately if we can just talk this through and really understand um these these competing priorities.

And asking the question now, since we're not bound to affordable housing, what else could go on there possibly um that would still be okay with the feds and the open space?

Right?

Because in March it was you had to do open space.

Now I'm hearing it's it's just a housing development.

We do community amenities.

We do places of worship, could we do um retail?

Right, and and I I'm I'm thinking a study session to just kind of talk that through and maybe we'll discount some of those quickly, but at the same time, maybe we'll stumble upon something that goes, hey, what about what about this?

All right, let me just bring it back to council for comments, and I want to start with Councilmember Hoback, um, and then we'll just work our way down to Councilmember Pester Male.

Okay, um, thank you.

Um yeah, so a few years ago when we went into this, we kind of went in eyes wide shut.

We OST AB had this on their list as a top priority.

Um it became available.

Um yeah so a few years ago when we went into this we kind of went in eyes wide shut we OSTAB had this on their list as a top priority um it became available um funding wasn't necessarily there but then all of a sudden it was some of the ARPA funding so uh we all kind of jumped in we didn't know what we didn't know there we knew there was some remediation that needed to be done on the property um we didn't know how much allegedly there were a lot of penalties and pines warrants not warrants anyway there was there were some issues with the property um and being a proponent of both open space because I was the on the the liaison to the board and uh and partnering to achieve it affordable housing out right um I did make a commitment to O stab at that time that uh it would be a it would be a good uh it would be a good have a good ending and they would not just get left with something they didn't approve of um you know but what a great opportunity affordable housing oftentimes gets stuck out on the perimeter of a town on a traffic corridor um which sometimes is good because there's transportation out there but um you know a lot of people want to live uh next to open space too and so this is this provides that opportunity um I do think that we have three options that are really very very very close and maybe that's the best we can do I don't know um but with Ostab being against it uh I I think we need to put on our creative thinking gaps and maybe come up with a fourth or fifth option um for for this housing and and open space together um I think it's premature to go into a zoning discussion um with all these concerns still out there and not knowing really kind of an idea of how much how many units and densities and that sort of thing we're we're looking at um and I know zoning zoning and you can decide what that's gonna look like after after it gets zoned but um I I think uh I think we do need more discussion on this and more options council member murdero yeah I I echo that I I think um we need to look at this more the more we talk about it the more information that we get the more information that we get the the better the solution that we can come up with um yeah I I know there's a solution in here um it's important that we get good value for the TNAC dollars um it's important that we have affordable housing um how do we you know do they both happen on on this site uh I think agreed we need uh we need more discussion we need to make sure we have all the information we need to make sure that our concerns are understood um and that we get you know we understand about the UDC requirements and that we're aligned to them uh so yeah all right council member bear thank you um yeah this was a complicated piece of land in fact when we started the discussion um deputy town manager um hammer had uh just an enormous afro and that's what happened I don't know if you ripped it out or just fell out but I don't know um and I don't know if you're being serious all head of hair and um no but it it was it was complicated and it was a lot of work for staff and um I know that it was so important for Ostab and so to find a way to to purchase this land 5050 and have and preserve this in the in the you know center of town was um a a really huge um goal and so with that in mind um Patrick found a way and your staff and it was um you know it it was going to be a great opportunity right to um connect all of these uh the open space to the east and cold creek to the north and west and um I I do see that in option three there are 30 acres listed as TNAC land use and 16.5 acres listed as housing use um or ARPA fund use um and I just I still in my heart feel like it could be such a beautiful um well planned well thought out development if we um gave it a chance um but barring that I do think that um it'll be important to replenish the 3.3 million that we spent

Um and I just I still in my heart feel like it could be such a beautiful um well planned, well thought out development if we um gave it a chance.

Um but barring that I do think that um it'll be important to replenish the 3.3 million that we spent um to accomplish our housing affordability needs in town.

Uh whether if if this isn't where it's going to go, then we need to figure out how to replenish those dollars and ensure that we're addressing those needs elsewhere.

Um and then I I would I really appreciate Chair Martin.

I saw him walk in, but I don't know if he's still here, but um walking around the property uh with Ostab members and and with you in particular and talking about the different areas was really it was really great to be on the land and see it.

Um and to experience walking around the pond and look watching the ducks in the water and everything was great.

Um and kind of imagining, you know people in fact we didn't have to imagine there were people on the trails who weren't supposed to be there walking their dogs, but um it's it's a great piece of land and I think you know whatever we decide to do with it, it's gonna be a great um service for for the people of Erie and um so I wanna see it at its best and highest use, whatever that is, and I I do wanna um replenish the three point three million for affordable housing if that's not gonna happen there.

So thank you.

Um yeah, thanks.

Uh don't have too much more to add, just uh a couple things.

I mean um I'm always of the mind that that uh money is fungible, so if I I'm not a poster deal uh uh idea of uh uh Counselor Barrett that if we need to uh refund uh um uh the TNAC to uh replenish the affordable housing funds, I'm fine with that.

Um I'll just I I uh there's two things that are just um concerning to me on all this, and then one is that I I just I just think of the topology of that area and the access that we're able to get in there.

I I don't think it's a a particularly great place to do a housing development uh of any sort.

Um the and the second thing that I'd say, and this goes back to uh my uh what I my first term um the very beginning is we had this issue with Boulder County um when they took uh you know their open space tax dollars and they used it to uh buy a piece of property and then get rid of uh uh uh of a conservation easement that they were gonna build a uh composting facility there to meet some of their goals.

So I realized that you know, when we bought this, we were trying to meet some of our goals and things like that.

But I think from the public's perspective and and to council remember Moralora's part about you know the use utilizing our TNAC funds to get the most out of that.

I I'm concerned about that.

And I I mean this is nothing against our staff did a great job, and Patrick, I appreciate you thinking outside the box because we were trying to figure out you know, how could we do this?

Because this was a um this was a high priority item for Ostab, but uh just um don't don't think it's a great place to do development all right.

Councilmember O'Connor.

Thank you.

Um so open space is pretty important to the residents.

They actually made their voices heard when they approved the homeworld charter and Article 11 is dedicated to open space and trails.

I struggle with this project uh having housing here.

I printed off the Cole Creek North Open Space and Town of Erie open space map.

And to me, it would just leave a hole in this beautiful stretch of open space that we already have.

So I I kinda have to say I side with Ostab on this one in that there should be an option for looking at leaving this as a making this completely an open space area and preserving the pond, preserving the area, turning it back to its natural environment as it may have been.

Um so that's kind of my take on the project.

Currently, I'm certainly not closed-minded to hear more, but that's my current take on it.

All right, cool.

Councilmember Pest Schmelly.

Yeah, so um I think I like option one with some uh affordable housing in there.

And also all the due diligence has been done and it's been talked about like many times.

We can just keep on talking about it, but we can build you know mixed income and also some retail in there, along with leaving the open space as you know, plan.

So that'll be my reference.

Okay, thank you.

All right, I'll close this up.

And um I think I'm I just have to process this information that I got that um affordable housing doesn't have to be in here.

Because I I certainly didn't have that impression after the study session.

I'm not saying that's good or bad.

I'm just saying I need time to process that.

Um if we do do affordable housing there, we got to find a way to pay for it at a time when our residents through the survey has said, hey, we're cool with affordable housing so long as the feds are paying for it, the state is paying for it, but you're not taxing us to pay for it.

And so we gotta we gotta figure that out if we go down the affordable um housing route.

So um I think what I'd like to do is work with our town manager to find an appropriate date for a study session with OSTAB, our attorney, and then um anybody else, maybe dig it, may obviously our planners, and and let's make it a study session where we can we can also brainstorm.

We can also just say, well, what if?

And that may lead us down the path of 100% open space, and if that's the case, how do we achieve that?

It may lead us down the path that we want to do something else, or it may lead us down the path that we're on currently, which is a housing development alongside this.

Um, but I'd like it to be that dialogue to just get ideas out there that may or may not have already been considered.

So I'll just note that we are on your schedule for a study session on November 18th.

That is a study session.

Okay.

So um we can plan to come back then and instead of a final concept plan, discuss options further.

Okay, sounds good.

And so long as uh Ostab can uh can join us on that, and um this is what Malcolm and I do behind the scenes.

We work on the agendas and try to figure it out, but knowing there's a date um that we might be able to just latch on to.

That sounds good.

Um yes, I would just want to say that.

Yeah, we'd want to continue some level of pace for making a decision at least for your you know, the next uh item that you have on the agenda is actually talking about the park facility portion of this.

And so we're hoping to get to and hopefully with that concept or with the study session in November, we can get some direction to at least move that portion forward because the whole site is currently zoned, agricultural holding, and we'd like to be able to that right, my correct yeah.

Um we want to be able to apply for any site plans or any building permits or proceed on anything with the facilities portion until the zoning takes place.

Yep, and understood, and you guys know me well enough now.

I don't want to just do something because it's something we can do until we understand the bigger concept of what we're gonna do.

Now, of course, I could be outvoted at any time, but that's my general feeling.

Let's figure it out and then uh move forward.

But um, I think we're ready to move on to that next item and we can have that conversation if you're all ready to do that.

Yeah.

Okay, then we will move on to item 25471 Village of Cole Creek uh feasibility study and pre-design concept for parks and open space division uh facilities.

And with that, we'll swap out a number of staff members and uh Chad Alexander, our facilities division manager will take the lead.

Uh uh thank you, Mayor Moore, uh, Mayor Pro Tem Bell, Council members, uh good evening.

Um my name is Mr.

Mayor, Mr.

Uh Moore.

Uh, is Chad Alexander, um the town facilities division manager and the project manager for this pre-design effort, uh feasibility pre-design effort.

Uh with me tonight are Krista Plaza and Dave Vero with uh Essenza Architecture.

Uh we're here tonight to present to council feasibility study update and pre-design concept uh for parks and open space facilities at the Cole Creek, excuse me, the village of Cole Creek property.

Um so just uh uh high-level summary, and this is kind of the why and the need behind this effort.

Um Leon A World Service Center, and that's the last time I'll use that other than the acronym because that is a mouthful, um, houses three divisions public works, utilities, and parks and open space.

Uh all operations function out of the service center.

Uh the facility severely lacking in necessary space, which does impact operations, and this is a function of uh rapid town growth and the need to staff to staff growth as well to uh uh continue to provide a high level of service to the um town population, which is as I mentioned, rapidly growing.

Um so a little background in 2020, um, a facility strategic plan process was initiated by the town.

Um, and a final report from our consultant partner at that time was produced in 2021 with considerable input from uh you know parks and open space division, all divisions that are housed there.

Um, we're here to talk about parks and open space facilities, and and that uh division had a lot of input into that uh strategic plan process.

Um and so the uh there was a conceptual estimate produced for a major expansion of the service center facility, and at that time that cost was around 23 million.

Um unfortunately, uh Mike McGill, who's also listed as a presenter is not able to make it today.

He's he's ill.

And so um uh just wanted to uh communicate that uh heavy input um at that time because Mike was uh part of that process.

And so if you uh escalate that uh uh cost to today's dollars, it would be roughly 37 uh just under 38 million dollars.

And I should note that uh for that process that strategic planning for facilities at that time the expansion considered all divisions uh continuing to be housed at the service center.

So that high-level budget was uh took into consideration all divisions.

Um considerable time and efforts gone into studying divisional space constraints and space optimization strategies for the service center.

But just to briefly summarize the history uh of assessing these facilities.

Uh in 2021, as I mentioned, uh there was a comprehensive town of Erie facilities assessment, which included the service center.

We reviewed operations, uh space usage needs and long-term maintenance to identify facilities deficiencies, and many of those deficiencies have been taken care of over the years because they were given a high priority uh since the the study was completed.

Then in the fall of 2023, the town staff partnered with a consultant for a laws facility assessment and change management process.

And the goal of that was to optimize the uh service center facilities for the next several years until an expansion could be possible.

And the reason for that is uh the police department and the service center are both high need in terms of space constraints, and the police department was determined to be the next major expansion.

Um, but that doesn't diminish the need at the service center.

And we'll show some uh show some pictures of the constraints uh further on in the in the presentation.

Um alongside with that effort, then in the fall 2023, the town acquired or purchased and acquired the 46.5 acre page property, which was renamed as we know the village of Cole Creek.

Um approximately 11 acres of that property was identified for potential long-term parks and open space facilities.

And at that time, uh the existing house and barn were looked at as potential staff space, uh, primarily for the house, and then storage space in the the barn.

And so what you'll see in this presentation is an evolution of that.

Um May flash forward to May of 2025, and this is following the council uh study session in in March, where we presented uh at least the concept of uh parks and open space facilities at this site, and following council direction at the May Council meeting, um, the direction was to study feasibility for the long term, not a stopgap measure.

Um we didn't want to um you know move the division to this site as a temporary measure uh just to accommodate the short-term or near-term staffing needs, and so we really took that to heart and looked at the uh site as the long-term uh you know how would we make this just this site uh uh feasible for long-term parks and open space facilities.

And at this point, I'd like to turn it over to Krista with the CENSA for the next portion of the presentation.

Thank you, Jen.

Uh so um, as you can see, the picture previous to this one, we have rotated the site, so north is to the right to maximize the scale on your screen.

And um, just a little bit about a senza architecture.

Good evening, everyone, by the way.

It's it's great, it's late, but we're gonna try and get through this quickly.

Um, thank you, Mayor Moore and Mayor Pro Tang Bell and Council members for seeing us tonight.

Um, we have a lot to share, so we'll try and get through it quickly.

Uh so we were founded in 2007, we're located in Lewisville at the Colorado Tech Center.

Um, just a little bit about our background.

We are currently working on the Adams County Fleet and Maintenance Facility for the Parks and Open Space Team.

It's about an 18,000 square foot facility, and it um is going to house their administration and fleet facilities.

They have six drive-through bays and a lot of great space for their parks, rangers, open space staff.

It's going to be a great facility, and it's almost completed coming up soon, ribbon cutting in October.

And then we also worked on long on the Longmont Public Works Facility, uh, winter chemical facility and other public works facilities for their team.

So we we do really enjoy working on these building types, and we're excited to share this site with you today.

Uh, we also work on a lot of pre-engineered metal buildings, making them a little bit more unique than your average rectangles.

So it's always our goal to make anything we touch beautiful.

So we want to make sure we do that on this site as well.

So we're looking at a lot of different options.

And um, and then teaming with our engineers and cost estimators.

We've been teaming with a lot of them since 1996, and um, especially our cost estimator is very important, working on projects locally, nationally, and internationally with him since 2008.

He provides very accurate pricing with us.

He uses real-time pricing, so we're very excited to present his pricing with our team as well.

And then today we have some um basically a four-step process that we've been working on for the last um quite a few months now.

And um, first we wanted to determine feasibility on this site and um basically what existings we have existing buildings we have, and then looking at the site and how everything can work on this site, um, not only for the current time, because everyone has been on the team and the staff has been discussing how important it is that this lasts for a lot of years, 30 plus years is what we're looking at.

So we've been really looking at current and future needs, not just current needs, and then looking at the facility assessment, needs assessment and space programming so we can understand how many square feet we need for these facilities to allow for the current and future growth, and then with that, we would develop, we did develop these conceptual site plans and building design plans.

So you'll see that in just a minute, and you probably saw that in your packet already.

And then finally, um, the last step is having the final scope of work, the conceptual design and that conceptual budget estimate.

And then the facility assessment.

So there have been a lot of questions from everybody about the facility and the existing house that's on the site.

So there's a residence on the site.

Um we did look at it very carefully with our team of engineers, looking at the structure, looking at the civil components, looking at the mechanical electrical and plumbing components, um, determining the site and building opportunities and constraints, not only with just this building, but with the entire site on the east side of the ditch.

Um, also looking at underground utilities and connections to County Road one and a half, and then looking at um requirements and cost to transition that residence to a commercial facility, which we've done more times than once.

So can be done.

Um, so looking at our findings, um, the residents can definitely be modified into a commercial facility.

Uh, it has uh some characteristics that we can maintain and then enhance and carry through to make it look a lot more commercial than it does now.

Of course, right now it looks like a house.

Um basement, it we're looking at the basement, and we're thinking how do we get the basement so it's more appealing to sit in for staff if there's staff down there.

We didn't just want to put storage in that space, we wanted to use the square footage.

Uh so looking at garden level patios, a lot of daylight, bringing daylight in, having an elevator shaft, bringing the daylight through the elevator shaft.

So there are all sorts of options and solutions to that.

So we have some renderings we'll share with you in a minute as well.

And then, or maybe more 10-15 minutes, and then let's see, and then we have um just looking at the site and the fact that it can accommodate all the buildings that are required and all the the spaces we've learned from the the team and the staff on how many square feet they need, how what kind of drive lanes, what kind of circulation, uh, looking at all of that and um making sure those all those things function on this site.

So we want to maintain those as much as possible and have those be a connection point that's an indoor outdoor connection for staff to go outside at lunchtime or maybe walk around on the trail or what have you.

So great opportunities there.

And then looking at determining priorities and developing a space program.

So what we did is we toured the existing Leon World Service Center facility and looked at you know, what are they storing?

What space do they need?

What kind of vehicles and equipment are they storing?

What is the nursery look like?

What do they need the space for in this new new building and new site?

So we also had a needs analysis questionnaire with a lot of great detail, and we had staff interviews.

So with that, we gathered so much information to understand really what was needed on this site.

And then we also looked at some visioning exercises to understand what characteristics everyone was looking for in this building and what they might want it to look like.

And then, oh, back one more minute.

Sorry, Dana.

And then looking at again current and future staffing needs, that was really important.

Um learning about all of that, not just for the current, but for the future.

And then finally, with that space program, with all of that evaluation, we came up with a program area summary that defines the square footage for each space in the building, how much staff base they need, how much teamwork space they need, workshop space, equipment storage, everything that we need in the each and every building on the site, and um, and then that turns into the conceptual design.

So that builds the foundation for our conceptual design, and that becomes very important to our conceptual designs.

If I may, uh, real quick, uh these pictures don't quite do just as I know many council members have toured this facility.

Um you'll see the cubicle area, and in some cases you got two and three people stacked into a place where it was designated originally for one.

And so that this picture uh does show that a bit, but um, and then the this the storage uh facility.

So many of these bays, these open bays are consumed with a lot of uh stored items, and so uh the fact that the uh trimmer uh you know, the trimmer rack looks empty, that's a function of them being out trimming, not necessarily that there's you know more space than there are uh you know equipment needs.

So these are a snapshot, but there's uh uh you know that's a big story is just the uh the uh the constraints.

So thank you.

That's great.

And so then we had visioning exercises.

Uh you can tell we had a lot of discussion on these boards.

Uh we went through a yellow, red, yellow, green dot exercise where we uh maybe some of you have gone through that, and uh, but we go through those exercises because it really helps us understand what people like about these spaces and what they maybe don't like as much, or maybe something with the yellow dots, they're on the fence about something, but they might like a certain color or certain material in the image.

So we started to develop ideas about you know what might this look like, what is the character, what is the feel of these facilities.

So a lot of great information came from this.

And and really what we want to remember is this facility is for the town of Erie, it's for your staff, and it's it's not for us as architects, it's for you all and for everyone to to have a great functioning building, but we also want it to look beautiful.

So, how do we turn that vision from these visioning boards into real life?

So, and then we'll talk about these concepts.

Yeah, so um just some summary items.

Um, so this this property, uh the village of Cole Creek does present a potential long-term facility solution for the park and open space division, and would allow, and this is key uh public works division staff and fleet to expand into vacated uh parks and open space spaces, and so it alleviates really you know three division space constraints for the near and long-term really.

Um let you take the next ones there.

Yeah, sure.

And the um basically we were looking at all of the concepts that we were working on and working through with the team, and making sure we had administrative functions administration functions, staff and public meeting spaces, uh, especially secured public spaces where you could come into the building and it would be secure from the other spaces in the facility, um, and then creating climate control spaces for operations fleet and maintenance.

And then we also wanted to look at another goal, and especially we we pay attention to this on all projects that we work on, but making sure we support any town sustainability goals as well as code required goals, and maybe their goals beyond that that the team wants to see.

So, looking at renewables, um PV panels, electrification, EV infrastructure, all of those things are really important to look at because it's becoming very common in our practice.

So and then looking at improvements, improvements to the operational efficiencies, making sure we have that fleet parking and maintenance area for all of the facilities, all the fleet vehicles, look at bulk storage and all the things you saw in those photographs, and any fleet security.

Also considering hail damage that's been happening more common than not, and looking at covered storage, things like that.

We want to make sure really we address all the things.

We're trying to look at everything holistically and make sure we cover everything.

And then finally, um, making sure again, I think we've hit on this, but accounting for future growth and staffing and the fleet equipment.

Yeah, and just sort of wrap this slide up, the the conceptual design does demonstrate that the village of Cole Creek is feasible.

And so we've we've determined that a lot of the information that Krista uh just provided, and more cost-effective than a major laws expansion for the three divisions.

So the concept for this, these facilities also align with other town priorities, uh, specifically as Krista mentioned, environmental sustainability, fiscal responsibility, uh again, the reuse of existing structure, and um and also um you know, a key point is um you know, this this allows the parks and open space division for growth and to continue to provide the high level of service that the residents have come to expect from that team.

So here is the concept that has been derived from the whole team and a lot of workshops and a lot of time involved and back and forth discussions, what works, what could work better.

Um, and if you can look orient yourself on the site, north is to the right.

So we've kind of taken what we had at the last session to rotating the whole thing to the right 90 degrees, and you'll start out um County Road 1 and a half is up at the diagonal at the um on your diagonal there.

And then you can see um the site we we plan on having detention on the site.

We definitely will need that per code and requirements, uh municipal codes.

And then what we want to show you is how this site circulates.

So you see that this it is a very long linear site, uh, but we found a way to work in a nice circulation path.

There are material storage on that very north side.

You'll see the um dumpsters and and ramps up to those dumpsters on the right, and then moving to the left.

We have the large overhead power utility easement.

However, we're trying to utilize that to make sure it's space that's not just wasted on the site.

We also have covered um truck storage under um at both the north and south side.

You'll see that in the teal color, uh, the all the teal colors are new buildings, and the orange colors are existing structures or buildings.

So you'll see those, and then you'll see all of the parking traveling to the south on on the site and looking at all of the parking.

Uh, basically where that existing barn is, the residence that will be converted to the office space.

Um, there's additional parking for staff and and seasonal employees.

And then in addition to this site, you can see the site continues to the south, and there is room, not only are we trying to cover 30 years here, but there is room for future expansion even beyond that 30 years to the south.

So, really looking at at expansion, um, even around the existing office space building and on the new building.

We're looking on the site.

How do we make sure we master plan this so we have room for future growth?

We have a future bay area that's in a dashed line, and around the existing um residents, we have space to expand office space if need be.

And then here's some 3D renderings, just so you can see from both the southwest and northeast sides of how the site circulates and how it works in three dimensions.

And then I'll hand this over to Dean.

All right, talk about the floor plans.

Uh, we start out with the uh what is currently the house through our needs analysis.

Uh thanks for the reminder.

Thanks.

Thank you.

So we found that we can accommodate the administrative uh staff functions in the house and maximize the utility of that existing floor space within the current foundation footprint of the house without expanding it.

Um that provided a good separation to uh put all of the uh field staff in the new building and all of their associated work spaces.

Uh on the first floor on the north and uh the upper end is the front entrance, which is a secured space uh from the rest of the building uh where the uh four uh work groups of the division can have deliveries.

Right now they don't have a good way to receive deliveries.

I think that's a key point that this is this would be a facility that's accessible to the public.

And so it would be as we'll see in some future slides with renderings that it does provide a welcoming space for those, whether it's vendors or the public at large to meet with parks and open space and in uh in the non-secured side, and then have the staff behind behind a secured perimeter.

So the Krista mentioned trying to make the basement the lower level space uh more usable uh for to be occupied by staff.

Um we're providing these mid-level uh sunken plazas on each side of the building, both to provide ingress and egress, uh, but also to bring light and views into the lower level and make it a more livable space.

Uh obviously connecting the interior with the exterior was a goal with this conceptual design because it is parks and open space, they're all about uh the outdoors, so we wanted that to be reflected in in the architecture.

Um the cost per square foot, just to give you an idea for remodeling this is in 400 to 450 square foot uh cost, and a new office structure would be closer to $600 per square foot.

So it's definitely more cost effective to do this, and uh as long as we know that the basic bones of the building are good, um, this will fulfill uh the needs for at least the next 30 years.

Here are a few interior views that uh show some of that connection uh between uh indoors and outdoors, and uh the supervisor's office that's on the lower level, so you can see how we're bringing some light and views in there, providing some outdoor space that can be used for staff or uh public meetings.

Um lower left is the public meeting room that's in that secure uh front entry space.

This gives you an idea of how we can uh uh both preserve the brick material, the quality, it's a quality exterior material, but add to it uh change the roof scape of the building, uh, change the windows, uh, open it up with more glass and turn it into a commercial structure that will uh reflect the the mission of the division and be something that um reflects the town of Erie and the uh the town can be proud of.

You can also see here uh some of the exterior space and uh a secure fencing to separate the public from the uh secure staff areas.

This view is on the back side of the building, uh showing the fleet parking uh with uh charging infrastructure for the fleet as they transition to all electric.

And on the right in the background, you can see the operations building.

This is the uh the fleet operations building, which contains all the functions for the field staff, including the shared office space, locker rooms, uh break rooms, a meeting room that will accommodate all uh staff meetings for the entire division for the next 30 years as projected, um, and those spaces open to the west for views and some enclosed outdoor space there.

Also in this building are the uh four work areas uh for the four work groups, uh storage, and then the uh vehicle maintenance base.

Um, and you can see on the uh on the top and to the right some uh future expansion that uh just in case projections uh or needs go beyond the projections that we are providing some expansion space, and this is just a uh conceptual view in the fleet bay area.

We do have an animation.

So here is the animation, and this really helps you see the site and how the site is flowing, um, what the circulation paths look like.

You can see there's covered parking there, and then um the barn space.

This is coming from the south direction.

We're traveling north, just to orient everybody, um, looking at the fleet parking, the new office building, the new shop building, and then the equipment storage spaces.

Um, and then the site, you can see the trucks driving in the circulation paths with two um secure gates on both the north and south sides of the site, and then going to the material storage bins through um to the north with the dumpsters, and then that detention pond adjacent to County Road one and a half.

And then we're gonna flip back.

See the there we go.

Traveling from the north to the south, and see a little bit more of the vehicular traffic here uh traveling through the site, and there's that overhead power line that we can see there.

Um, then we have the covered storage.

You can see some of the PV panels.

This is all very conceptual, right?

We haven't really totally designed any buildings.

This is to get massing and start to look at how the shapes look on the site.

And you can see that residence um converted to the office building, the barn, and then the parking.

Here's a little shot of the uh public space coming in at the public entry, and then coming in, there's a drop zone for deliveries.

That was a big request from the staff.

The public meeting room to the left, and then a waiting area out to the east.

And then you can see some of that garden level, just a quick snip of it.

And then here is that elevator shaft with a stair wrapping around it.

That's a first concept, a big idea.

And how do we get daylight into that?

You can see we've tried to incorporate a lot of daylight, looking at the offices in the garden level.

And then coming through to the break room as you come up the stairs.

Again, having that indoor-outdoor connection, we're always looking for that.

And how can we achieve that with this building?

And then finally, the shop building, and you can see these are all drive-through bays, it makes it a lot easier for the team to function.

Um, another big goal is making sure we have ease easily maintainable and functional buildings that work well for the staff.

And then that is the video.

Turn it back to Dane.

All right.

So the uh budgeting is a process throughout design.

Um we are at conceptual design, which is kind of the first step in that process.

As design gets more detailed, the budget gets more accurate.

Um the conceptual design allows us to at least start putting some numbers to it and uh anticipating all of our project costs.

So we do a uh detailed construction estimate, and then we plug that into an overall uh budget that includes hard and soft costs.

Um phasing of the project can be explored if needed.

Just uh we always have to keep in mind that anytime we phase or we're delaying something, and any time we delay something, we increase the cost because of escalation over time.

Uh we split out some uh scope as alternates, mostly to understand uh the magnitude of the cost for them, like the solar panels.

Um then uh uh Yeah, so I uh just say that uh tonight we are uh town staff is requesting council approval to move forward with full design and a pre-construction effort.

Um, if council does approve that that effort, then we would also, like I mentioned, pursue a pre-construction services agreement.

And what that allows us to do is partner with a GC, uh general contractor uh for budget review, cost modeling, and constructability reviews to really hone in on cost and ways to go about this alternate means and methods that may bring down costs even further.

As Dane mentioned, this is highly conceptual, uh, although they do work with a very professional estimator that has done this a lot.

Um, there are many assumptions at this point and a lot of square foot estimates as you get in further design that that gets more and more refined with equipment selections, things like that.

Thanks, Chad.

Uh, so to give you an idea, here's an example.

Uh Krista had mentioned the Adams County project that we are wrapping up right now.

Um on that one, the construction budget goal was 15 million dollars, and at uh 30 percent design after schematic design, which is further along than we are in our process.

Um, the budget the cost estimate and budget came in at 18 million.

Um, so we went through some value engineering, and then at 60 percent design, the cost estimate was at 15.9 million.

Then when we got to 100% design and it went out to bid, the construction bid actually came in at 14.8 million.

So you can see how during design it's it's a process for us to target the goal.

Um, and as we get feedback during design, we can we can more accurately target it.

The overall project budget, including hard and soft costs for that, and this is back in uh 2024 dollars was 18 million, and that project was under budget, they added scope uh to spend the 18 million.

Uh this is uh the summary from the budget that's in your packet.

The highlighted yellow uh 14.2 million is the detailed construction.

Uh that includes um contractor overhead and profit and general conditions, uh cost escalation and a design contingency.

Um the overall cost then is at the 16 million, and then the additional uh fuel island uh photovoltaic systems, generator, and storage sheds brings it to 18.8 million.

Those numbers are were like I said, split out so we could understand the value of those.

Um, but obviously the fuel island having that uh in this facility would reduce reduce the number of trips to the fleet facility, it'd obviously be much more convenient for operations.

Uh the photovoltaic systems and the generator will um contribute uh to resilience of the facility and sustainability and the storage sheds, as we mentioned, will uh increase the longevity of the equipment by reducing the amount of damage from hail and uh ultraviolet.

Um so those obviously have uh significant value in themselves.

Overall, uh this is kind of a minimum timeline to give you an idea.

We're looking at 22 months minimum uh so that the facility, if we proceeded forward, uh, would be opening in uh 2027.

Yeah, so some key takeaways just kind of wrap up.

Um so this concept optimizes the efficiency and accounts for divisional growth, as we mentioned.

Um it is cost effective to develop the site comparatively to uh major expansion at laws as we talked about.

Um it is an efficient site light layout as you can see from the flyover.

Um it uh takes into account a lot of the operational adjacencies that would be needed, and that that is born out of the needs assessment and the work with uh the really a ground up effort with the uh parks and open space staff.

Um it does focus on sustainability.

Uh we look at EV infrastructure ready, uh reuse is always the uh greenest, you know, reuse of that existing house and barn.

Um, and we do look at building electrification and energy efficiency uh to keep in line with our beneficial electrification plan and sustainability goals.

Um we look at solar ready roofing, um renovation over demolition, as we talked about.

Um, and also feature-proof design, so long-term operational value and a feature-proof design, as we said, designed for 30 plus years.

Um, as I mentioned, tonight we're seeking council direction on the VCC site use for uh parks and open space facilities and approval uh to request proposals for full design and a pre-construction um agreement with a general contractor.

Um thank you for your time tonight.

I know it's a late night, but uh appreciate your time, and at this time we'll take any questions you may have for us.

All right.

So first thank you for the information.

It looks great.

Um I'm not sure if this is the right site based upon our conversation uh before.

So that's kind of spinning around my head a little bit.

Can we have uh Sarah come up?

I was also not expecting a $19 million project to come in front of us tonight, and I don't know if I missed that in the retreat.

Um I think when this was first discussed, and you know, you guys keep me keep me sane here, um, it was to remodel a house so that we can move some folks in until we can figure out Leon A world and whether this is an expansion.

What we're seeing in front of us is a campus.

And I didn't get that.

So if I I may have just missed the boat, Malcolm and I have not spoken about it in our one-on-ones.

So Sarah, help me understand.

Where's the 19 million dollars coming from?

So I can only speak to what has been put into our CIP and specifically our CIF as it relates to projects like this.

So this conceptual design um is currently budgeted in our uh public facilities impact fund, correct?

Or is the the parks facility?

Yeah, what I would say is uh right now we're looking at uh design, and so that design piece uh would be in our uh public facilities impact fund.

And so, Mr.

Mayor, I think I can answer your question.

Um we really took that charge again when we started, as you mentioned, as hey, maybe we can put some staff in this house and utilize the barn for storage.

At our earlier study session and meetings, we were really charged with we don't want an interim step, we don't want some temporary measure if we're gonna move a division out there.

We want to look at the long term, and so that's what this campus does.

And so as a result, uh the site package increased quite a bit.

Um we looked at really uh the house is uh at at one point we looked at expanding the house for uh offices, and what we found was through this process that it's much more needed if we're gonna have a long-term home for parks and open space to have that uh climate control um maintenance facility that has the adjacencies with the staff that utilize it and work in it every day.

And so the growth was in that um that uh maintenance facility, whereas the uh the house um is is being renovated for the administrative space.

So it did become a campus, really uh evolved from that very simple.

Hey, we have a house, we have a barn that we could reuse to let's look at this as a long-term home for parks and open spaces, not a temporary measure.

Got it.

And what is the balance of the fund that you referenced that the money to to build this would come?

So I don't have that in front of me, but I do know that right now in the budget process, we have um we do have it balanced.

So in the way that we do have the design structured as long as as well as the other projects that are currently in there, we have it structured so that it balances out based on the current revenues that are coming in.

So I would have to look at that, and I'm happy to send out what we currently have, but again, we haven't passed the budget yet for 2026.

So anything you know that we'd see in the out years would be subject to change.

Um, and then it also um does not take into account yet any changes to impact um fees that we would see through the study um that we're gonna be initiating next year.

Um so that would also impact the impact fund as well.

Um, but those uh the cost for what he's discussing tonight for that initial conceptual design is in the budget for the current year and has been expended from that fund.

And what's the name of the fund again?

The public facilities impact fund.

And and we can't use the public facilities fund to help fund the police station.

So we use the police facilities impact fund for that.

Um we kind of assess different projects kind of based on what makes sense and then you know what the code kind of implies.

So we have certain projects that I think are more broad stroke that end up in this fund, whereas the police facilities really is more specific to their facilities.

Okay.

I'm I'm processing a lot.

That's okay.

We have a lot of impact funds.

Yes.

All right, sounds good.

I think uh last time, what did I do?

I went this way, so this time I'll go this way to sloop around.

Okay, thank you so much for the presentation.

Um I kind of was looking at this and thinking about the police station expansion and on that piece of land.

Um, is there any undermining?

Do we know out there?

Anything that could dramatically increase the cost that we've got.

Oh, we we didn't see this coming.

If we were going to build extra buildings and things, nothing, excuse me.

Nothing really we were aware of, and obviously if we were to move forward, we would do exploratory.

That'd be one of the first steps is do some exploratory borings.

There were some done with the initial um uh assessment of the site, uh, but they're just uh a handful, I think, to get the soils.

Um, and so that we would we would do it much more extensive in the area uh that we would be looking to develop.

Okay.

So probably not, but we'll look, we'll look into it first.

Okay.

Um and then so does this facility, um, since it's a campus now with many buildings and uh 30-year outlook.

Does that eliminate the need to expand laws?

So it does push it out by many years.

So uh the uh especially the fleet function, excuse me, especially the administrative function.

So based on the staff and fleet projections uh for through 2030, um, and then really uh you know, beyond that, we would have to make some additional determinations based on that projected staff group.

But we we would project that uh the fleet open bay expansion, so that's the the maintenance areas with uh um we're seeing a lot of fleet vehicles go through those.

It's uh um, you know, um heavily used facilities.

Um that could be pushed to 2030, and um what that would look like is between six and eight uh additional open pass through bays, really to accommodate uh the growth in the fleet, um, and then also we have uh the separation of the divisions, utilities, and public works, uh to account for more of a heavy uh heavy equipment, uh fleet um bays, and then uh a lighter duty um to kind of separate that out.

So um, and then the administrative space uh that could be pushed out beyond 2032.

Um again, depending on staff growth after 2030, and because I I think most of our projection go through 2030 right now, but beyond that, um we'd have to assess that.

But we feel like um it's beyond 2032 at this point for the administrative spaces because what would happen is uh the the public works utility staff expands into that space vacated.

Um that that's gonna really accommodate.

Plus, we're we've also got some other measures that we've um you know already got approved to move forward with, which is some modular space for the really immediate term.

And so um, so yeah, we that's I hope that answered your question.

Yeah, yeah.

So maybe it'll buy us some time because I know that I'm I've been in the laws center and you know recently, and you you're very creative in in uh finding spots for everyone.

So would we need to invest you know at least uh something over there in the in the meantime, even if we were to build something like this?

That's a great question.

And and yes, some minor remodeling would be needed, and I say minor, uh, because we may be creating some tenant uh kind of build out with some additional offices, um, and furniture for for certain.

So if we're using uh you know a different use for different division, we're gonna probably uh revamp that uh the layout with the furniture, and so uh some some potential need for some additional offices for supervisors, uh, but in general, it would be you know converting the space via furniture um changes and um and then expanding into that space.

So um yeah, and and then the uh the fleet bays and storage areas for the parks if they uh parks and space would were to vacate those, uh we would utilize those for additional equipment and material storage.

Um and I know that there's you know, for example, a large VAC truck that uh they're looking at potentially a second one, and so um you know that that would very quickly be the used, and so uh with some minor renovation and uh furniture changes, things like that to convert it for a different use.

Um, you know, we feel like uh in short order it could be become those spaces for public works and utilities.

Okay.

Um let's see.

Oh um, I remember walking the site um with Ostab and the entry point the driveway.

There's like a an pretty I mean crudely engineered bridge, it seems with some um cement blocks.

So I assume there would there does this include any engineering or anything like that that would be to rebuild that.

You're talking about the ditch crossing um section.

I think we need to take a hard look, and obviously that takes coordination with ditch companies, and so that's not a uh, you know, uh we're not looking at that necessarily as part of this, uh, but I think we would assess that because I think there would be advantage to be able to for staff to be able to cross that with light duty equipment to get to the trails uh you know that that may go through there.

So I'm remembering the driveway was is would this create a new access point then?

Oh okay.

Okay.

It would, and it would be directly across from Fletcher, so we didn't mention that, but yeah, okay.

It would be directly across from that existing Fletcher Drive, so that way it's it's connecting.

Okay.

Those are my questions.

Thank you.

All right, thanks.

Thanks for the presentation.

Yeah, it looks looks beautiful.

Um, like a lot of things about it.

Um when I was kind of going through the package and the 37.6.

Sorry, uh $37.6 million cost for Leon Worley.

And then this was you know 18.8.

I was thinking, well, this would uh eliminate the need for the expansion of Leon Worley, but you just mentioned that you would still have to do that some of that as well.

Um so I I guess I need to understand that a little bit better.

Um the what's the current staff and what's the future staff level that this would support?

Uh so it depends on the division.

Um are you asking specifically for numbers on staff growth for each division, or can they understand the question maybe a little better?

What's uh currently uh at uh Leon Worley uh center versus today, and then what's the future group growth plan that you plan to put at this site?

Yeah, so it again it depends on the division, and I'd have to go back and look at the exact numbers for each division, but um three divisions out there.

Um right now I think we have 73 up to uh over a hundred uh when you have the part-time seasonal setup.

Um that number each division projects their their growth each year, and um I don't have those numbers in front of me.

I apologize, but I can get those for you to show what each division shows in terms of growth and then what that um you know that that capacity would need to be down the road.

So thanks.

And and again, I was looking at 37.6 and and 18.8, and I'm thinking we're gonna save 19 million dollars by doing this campus versus expanding, but that's not the case.

It is uh it pushes it out uh by many years.

And so the really how many years?

Uh so 2030 for any expansion to the fleet areas.

And that so just uh for context, the fleet uh services uh they service the police department fleet, they service the administrative fleet, they service the parks and open space, all the uh equipment for the town crosses through there, and so that's really going to be a function of growth as well.

As the fleet vehicles increase, the need for those bays uh increases at the service center site.

The parks and open space, uh their service looks more like light duty equipment, some tractors, things like that.

If you know, so it doesn't replace the function of the service center, it it actually allows them on their site to maintain their their smaller equipment, use the the vehicles uh or use the bays to pull through and load uh supplies and materials, load out their equipment for the day, those types of things.

So it doesn't replace the the service center need for fleet that does service all the town vehicles.

Yeah, and and clearly being this is a new site, the efficiency looks like it's it would be significantly better than than the uh current site.

Yeah, and I would note uh, you know, one of the things we accommodate for is parking and fleet or excuse me, vehicle parking um and staff parking, those are two big constraints at the service center right now.

So one of the things that's that one of the advantages that pushes out a major expansion uh also is the ability for public works utilities to utilize roughly half of the the uh equipment yard uh right now is parks and open space.

And so it allows parks and open space to get the space they need for growth and also the the public works and utility staff and equipment, excuse me, um, to be able to expand into that.

And that's needed right now.

Uh if you drive there at any one time, it it it can be actually uh you know, there's a lot of vehicles uh moving through there, a lot of equipment, and so it's gonna increase safety as well.

I think and I would like to understand you know the impact funds and where where the money uh would would come from.

Uh the other thing I I love seeing the solar panels on the on the roofs, and then I also think about well, what about solar panels over the parking lots um that could not only generate electricity but also could protect our our uh um dark our vehicles uh from any hail damage, right?

And that that is one of those items to Mayor's more mayor more's point, I think it's B.

Um that grew this cost is that we do show that um with covered parking and to your point with solar panels on top of that cover parking.

So we've you know there is a cost to that, but we have incorporated protection of the fleet vehicles because what we saw the 2023 hail storm really uh decimated our fleet, and it was a massive effort, it was impressive effort to get those back.

Yeah, get everything, but it really was triaging, you know, to get the the emergency vehicles back out where a lot of them uh took some time to get through the repair.

So uh we have uh that's part of this cost is is covered parking with with PV.

Okay.

And is I mean, is there an ROI on on the covered parking if you put solar panels on?

Um we could we could definitely calculate that.

Well, I guess there are an ROI at the end.

Yeah, yeah.

Um and I I'm happy to speak a little bit more about the funding because we we did um meet as a group, Chad myself, and then uh Luke Bollinger, our parks and rec director, um, because uh within that fund, we also have other projects, obviously, including like the Erie Community Center renovation expansion.

Um and so part of what Chad's also talking about, you know, moving the laws expansion out as well as some of those other projects.

We did you know consider and go through a reprioritization exercise to also consider how this would work.

Um so I just want to acknowledge that that that is something that you you'll see um you know when we bring forward the budget.

Um and then we're also looking at some of the other items that we know the council's prioritized, particularly with the ECC expansion and some of the parks um considerations.

Um so for example, the um consideration of maybe extending the uh the property tax mill levy um to maybe support the ECC expansion.

That's something that whereas right now it sits in the public facilities impact fund.

Um so getting more creative with some of our funding sources um that we could possibly access um so that we can then also again reprioritizing and looking at like what can we push out, how can we ensure that um these are funded in the right years um so that the bat the fund stays balanced.

Um so just want to acknowledge that because we you know do recognize that there's lots of moving pieces to this, and this is not the only project in that fund.

So just want to uh answer that question for you.

Okay, councilman hobeck.

Thank you.

Um years since I've been then in the world center.

Um you needed expansion back then.

Um so I appreciate your comments on those photographs because that just tells the story.

Um optimization is a very uh yeah, it's it's a word that I use that uh use other words.

So you're asked tonight is approval for the site use.

Um which I was wondering when I saw the three options of of the entire site, wondered why so much is allocated to parks and rock wreck, and now I know um but um so you ask is approval for the use, and then to get um what do you call it?

Just to clarify, we can't do approval, maybe some direction.

Direction, yes, yeah.

I just want to just clarify.

Yeah, well.

They said approval.

I know I know, sorry.

Um direction uh request proposal for full design.

So that's not really a money commit, right?

That's just sending asking for so there would be a money commit and and Sarah just uh communicated this, which is the design cost.

So we would uh you know request proposals for the full design, because this is a conceptual piece.

So if we were to look at full schematic uh through cons uh construction documentation, um, in order to really hone in on budget and arrive at a um a budget that you know we can go through cost mining sessions to refine.

Um that's what we that's what the direction we would seek is to move forward with that process, which does carry with it, um, which we would bring back before council for approval.

Um, you know, that that design approximately how much would that be?

We're we're showing it here as 1.2 million based on that's the 1.286 that's at the top of the based on the overall cost of the project and your 282, yeah.

Okay.

Um more questions, thank you.

Okay, I'll loop all the way around.

Thank you.

Um I understand with the growing town we need space and all the expansions that we plan.

Some of my questions were already answered, like how much does it cost for design?

And uh how much is budgeted that is for next year, right?

We don't need to, but we have a source for it and we'll creatively adjust that.

How much more life do we have at the beyond service?

So if we were to recognize this this project at uh for parks and open space.

Um the facility itself is is in is in good shape.

It's a we'll maintain.

Um, you know, there's obviously with any building, uh, we would be looking at mechanical replacements down the road when it's time.

But the life the the structure is is in good shape.

Um and especially for uh two divisions versus three, there's room to expand uh both the fleet side and expand into the existing facility.

So uh I mentioned uh uh council member immortalero uh just the the fleet uh potential expansion, which would which would be one of the first in twenty after 2030.

Um but really uh the life of this building can be extended by many many years.

So have we evaluated any other places?

I'm sorry, can you repeat the question?

Have we uh considered any other places?

Uh this site again through our uh you know uh facility assessment and change management process.

This this site was acquired by the town, uh uh purchased by the town.

And so timing-wise, uh this is the site that we looked at just because of the existing facilities and um you know the the potential for parks and open space out there.

So to answer your question, no, we have not explored other sites.

Uh we we look at it as this site or a major expansion at laws, and I I say that because something, you know, we need to move forward with with something.

Uh we are taking some measures in the short term and mediate term to accommodate staff that we have now and project over the next year or so, but really it's it's been at capacity uh Counselor Hoback's point for many years.

So yeah.

Thank you, that's all I council member O'Connor.

Thank you.

Thank you for the presentation.

Um most of my questions have been answered.

I noticed on slide 13.

Um, I was another council member who was able to walk um that property.

And there's a lot of uh old trees up there that really um to me it's it's it's kind of a shame that the residents can't enjoy them also because they're behind a fenced area um to the north of the bridge.

Um it looks like there's no fence between that cluster of trees.

Is there a way to allow the residents who walk those trails to be able to access those tree areas?

I think visibly, yes.

I I don't know that we want um again um there's the the ditch that runs along there too.

So uh short of the ditch crossing.

Um it is a public facility.

So I mean the public can come to this facility, but I don't know that we want them uh necessarily uh you know I we show a fence, I think that's a rendering.

Um does it need to be there.

We can we can look at that.

So yeah.

And my other concern is along with other council members um budgeting for this.

And so the arc the design portion of it, the 1.2 million, that would come out of the public facility impact fund 2025.

Yes, yes, it would.

And so the rest of the costs they would come out in 26 and 27.

So yes, it would be stretched out, but um to be clear, the fund does not have that much, and that's kind of what I was saying, where we'd have to look at um does the ECC renovation need to come out and be funded through another source, like extending the tax.

Um, and then I know that there's also been discussions about um possibly doing some other type of um uh public facility infrastructure sales tax.

Like as we start to pursue infrastructure taxes or parks and recreation taxes, and we begin to offset some of the costs that are in um these funds.

I think that that's where we would have to consider um whether or not those uh projects continue to be in this fund, and then we would be able to um put appropriate more towards that.

Um then we would also be continuing to look at the impact fund itself and ensure that the impact fees that we're collecting are sufficiently covering our needs for this type of project.

And then um finally, I think uh we also don't know the true cost of the building yet either.

Um so that would also be something we'd have to assess.

Um is right now we can look at it and we can kind of map it out based on the current cost.

Um, but as that escalates, we'll also have to consider how to cost recover anything that kind of exceeds that.

Um so again, we're looking right now at what we can project and what that gap will be in the future years.

Um, but again, we're gonna have to continue to to look at that.

Um, but again, we're gonna have to continue to to look at that, and that's why the um actual design will inform us on what what different funding mechanisms we'll need to explore.

Makes sense.

Yes, but we we do have the money in the 25 fund for this for yes, for for the design and moving forward with that that initial piece, yes, that's appropriate.

Okay, yes, thank you.

Um late, and I think a lot of my questions were answered.

Um, I'll try to keep this as short as possible.

So a couple things.

One um I think my biggest concern with the site is having the single ingress egress out of there, and uh the stress that it may have on Fletcher, so I don't know what improvements we're gonna need to do at that intersection there.

Um I guess some in which we got yeah, sorry.

So I'm gonna pause for a second because we have a a executive session and we have attorneys that are gonna be with us that are very expensive.

Um so what I'm gonna suggest is that we get oh, it's just you know, it's not me.

I'm just gonna go.

What am I saying?

Um I mean, these are all great questions, but I think this is a study session format where we can deep diaper uh dig deeper um to figure this out.

So if you're okay with just waiting on that question, I can I can wait on that.

Let me let me so let me just make my only other point, and that was um I I think staff needs to have a powwow because based on our um uh before that study session because at the retreat, so we brought up uh I think I was the one that's that's been talking about you know using the the ECC mill levies, but when we had the retreat, um we have we can only do that in 26, and I think we all kind of said we're only gonna get one tax measure past that year, and the thought was that we're not gonna do that, and we were going to do the sales tax increase, so that may upset the apple card on this whole thing.

So I think staff needs to get back together and kind of but before it comes back to us again.

So uh yeah, I'll just leave it at that.

So this this is where I was going.

First off, I uh this is awesome.

I look at this and I go, yes, I want this, just like I felt when I saw the police station, I said yes, I want this.

Um, and then I ask, well, how did we get here?

Right?

We grew like crazy and we didn't collect enough fees, we didn't uh have a plan for revenues to just knock this stuff out as they happen, and now we're struggling on the payment side.

So the renderings and the flyovers and all that are awesome, and I don't want anybody to think that that I don't think this is necessary.

I think it is.

I think that um I worry about the site, and I think Councilmember Petersonelli asked it, were there other sites explored?

And the answer was no.

So I at least want a conversation on well, hold it.

Are there other sites that we could potentially do this so that the open space piece of this, whether it's the trees or the trails or the safety around the ditch and all of that, maybe this isn't the right site for an industrial type plant?

Because at the end of the day, this is industrial, right?

You're gonna have semis coming in there dropping off bark and rock and all the other things.

You're gonna have trucks coming in and out all day long going and doing their thing.

Now it's central, so that's probably a positive for this particular site, but I think we need to at least understand why this is the site and only the site uh to do this.

The funding, obviously, and it's the 19 million all in, right?

We talked about the ditch crossing and another bridge or something over that.

Does that include the night in the 19 million, or is that over and above this?

Which is also another site plan, kind of like the undermining that uh council member bear was asking about, right?

Is it another cost that we're not really thinking about?

Um, we're just looking at the the main facility.

Um so I looked at the advanced agenda.

I think we'd have to move some things, but um potentially we could pull all this together for the November study session.

And um, I like the format better too, where we can sit out and look at each other and actually have a conversation than what we're trying to do up here tonight.

I did uh did just have one more uh council member S Remelli and your point about site.

So one advantage is the town does own this site, and so uh if we were looking at an alternate site that we don't own, there would be that land acquisition potential cost that would add to this because the the budget that you see before you is the the cost to convert this site into parks and space facilities.

If we look at another site, there's that land acquisition piece.

Potentially so I get this visceral reaction because I do feel like we're making hundred-year decisions here.

And uh Lafayette, you know, I'm trying to get the energy going behind on open space um and a buffer between our towns down there.

And their feeling is hey, we've got a developer that wants to develop that.

And so that may turn into a gas station.

We got another open space opportunity here.

And not that these aren't beautiful buildings, but are we compromising in some way just because we own the land, as opposed to hmm, is there an industrial piece of land somewhere close to Leon World or someplace else that may be more appropriate.

Wouldn't be as beautiful.

But maybe more appropriate.

I don't know, but that's the conversation that I want to have.

All right, I want to thank you all because this is it gets me excited on one hand, and then it gets me, you know, a little concerned on you know what the right uh path forward is.

And we'll pick it back up at a study session here soon.

All right, thanks.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right.

Um we are gonna go to council member reports and announcements.

And um I'll just ask if anybody would like to start, and then I'll go around from there.

All right, start for time.

Um I don't have too much uh on the agenda tonight.

I'm just gonna mention that uh I know the mayor and I and some of us up here will be uh in Frederick tomorrow for the CML uh dinner two days.

Two days.

Sorry, yeah, it's Tuesday, Thursday night.

Yeah, so um looking forward to uh yeah, meeting with our government and talking about some of the uh common issues that we're gonna be facing.

So um just make that awareness.

Uh we had uh biscuit day this this last uh Saturday.

Um I was only out there for a little bit, but there was a good crowd.

I know you're out there oil though.

So it's great to see it back in its regular format.

Um and uh just real quickly, I I just want to address um uh at the at the beginning of the meeting there was a public comment, and I uh uh council member O'Connor, I know you were kind of mentioned that.

And I I just want to say with the discussion of of moving of terms uh with respect to it wasn't just um uh wasn't just planning commission, it was all advisory boards, and and I I'm not sure why you guys singled out.

I I felt like I was the one kind of pushing for that, so I like commission.

Yeah, I yeah, I know you were on the commission, but you know, I um I I really wanted that this this was a thing, it was not intended for anybody to get rid of anybody.

Um at some point we looked at it where we have elections in even numbered years, but we're seated in an odd numbered year.

So the thought was to place um not just planning commission, but all advisory boards appointed in that odd numbered year.

Uh we came up with a uh a compromise.

Um yes, it was a four-three vote, but um I it was not um uh uh was not meant to belittle anybody or to um uh belittle anyone's uh service to uh our advisory board.

So um yeah, thank you for your work on the on the uh on the charter commission because I know that wasn't easy.

Thank you.

That's all right, Councilmember O'Connor.

I just wanted to uh have another reminder that the tree rebate program is uh still in uh available through October 15th.

Uh residents can go to erieco.gov forward slash rebates to learn more about that program.

And also wanted to mention uh give a shout out to the Eerie Historical Society, along that uh Mayor Pro Town Bell mentioned about Biscuit Day coming back.

Um and there's uh wanted to thank the volunteers.

I think they had over 70 volunteers, and uh there was actually two employees uh from Erie Middle School who uh donated their time to cook the biscuits in the school's kitchen, and uh the other volunteer there was a couple other volunteers, um, including Mike Turner, um, who cooked gravy on portable cooktops in the alley behind Briggs and Pierce.

So it's uh those volunteers aren't seen, but they should also be thanked with the ones that were seen.

So thanks to the Historical Society for bringing back Biscuit Day.

Awesome.

Councilmember Peterson.

I don't have any comments.

Okay, thank you.

Councilmember Hope.

Um they had wonderful weather, um, fun music and delicious food, and that's it.

Uh nothing for me.

All right.

Um, I just want to say congratulations to the Sand Lot Baseball League.

We finished up our our season this past week, and it was super fun and such uh just injection of joy every time I got to go to practice or a game.

And um, thanks to the community for really packing the park and showing up.

It was super fun.

And um CU's, oh, is it chip?

I think okay, okay.

CU's chip came out for the um for the kids, and I think that was a highlight for everybody.

So thanks for that.

Um there's one more old town outreach on October 4th.

Um, so residents from Old Town can actually meet at this building, and we're gonna do just a walk around town and chat and maybe stop at a couple different houses and chat with people, and that's at 10 30.

Um, and so I hope that you can join us.

Those have been really fun.

Um Dr.

Cart, Dr.

Dr.

Cog regional decarbonization um meeting for the Oversight Committee, and um also sub regional forums for Boulder and then Southwest Weld is is later this week.

Um the MCC, the Northwest Mayors and Commissioners Coalition is meeting with Rep WOOG coming up.

Uh, and so that'll be uh that's not my calendar yet, but I'll be attending that.

And I also wanted to thank Senator Wallace for coming to Erie for coffee this weekend, and thank you, um, Councilmember Hobak for joining.

We had a really great turnout for community coffee on Saturday, and um lots of great questions and concerns and thoughts.

Um, and I want to thank EPD for swinging by and grabbing coffee with us for a little bit.

Um let's see, there's a smart commute mobility forward event coming up on Thursday that we've all been invited to.

And so I'll be going um as the chair of NATA.

Um, but it's 11 to 2 on Thursday at the CSU Spur.

And if you can make it, it would be great to kind of get a regional feel for what's going on.

And then um there's also a workforce open house and board meeting and tour.

What day was that one?

Um, that is also this week on Friday at 8 a.m.

I'm sure none of you have anything going on.

Um, but I'll I'll try to make that as well.

So um so that's kind of it from my end.

Um the women's event is sold out.

Thank you to come the community um for showing up for that.

I'm really excited that'll be October 9th, the women in leadership summit, and we're super excited to have Deputy Chief Carmesino um as one of our presenters.

So thank you.

All right.

Um, I just have two uh quick things.

Uh first I uh participated in the community fruit rescue based upon our sustainability committee.

Um I have an apple tree, and I was surprised that they were able to pull 80 pounds of apples off of it, half of which were uh food bank um quality, um, and the rest was able to go to animals that uh needed the food.

So if anybody hasn't thought about doing this, it turned out to be just an awesome thing for me, and I would have never done it had the sustainability uh committee not presented to us.

And then the second thing is last weekend um funded by one of our community grants, and unbeknownst to me, there is a a group um that does improv on different topics, and um I was invited to the theme of this was stories from our grandparents, and so Ben Hempel, Sarah Laughlin, our former mayor Pratem, and myself were asked to um share a story, and then it was acted out um improv.

And it was an incredible evening over at the rec center, um emotional, um fun.

Um we were all laughing, we were all having a good time.

At the end of my story, and after they were done, it was such an emotional thing to see my grandmother played out that I just got up and and hugged the actress, and it was it was just such a genuine thing.

So if you ever have a chance to go see this group, um it's called MODIS um theater playback, and they they work up in uh longmont and boulder in the front range.

It's definitely worth your time uh to go to it.

All right, with that, I'll look to Mayor Pro Tim to take us into executive session.

Thank you.

Very good shoot here.

Um mayor, I moved to go into executive session to hold a conference with the town's water council to receive legal advice on specific legal questions pursuant to CRS 2464024B, for which the topic cannot be disclosed without compromising the purpose of this executive session.

All right, do we have a second?

Second all in favor, say aye.

Aye, all opposed, say no.

All right, we're going into executive session.

The meeting will adjourn after executive session, so we will not be returning back here tonight.

Okay.