Town Council meeting on May 26, uh 2026.

Will you please rise and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States on your indivisible with liberty.

Okay, well, the town clerk please take roll.

Councilmember Pessimarelli.

President.

Councilmember Baer.

Present.

Councilmember Mortalero.

Here.

Councilmember Hoback.

Here.

Mayor Pro Tembell.

Here.

Councilmember O'Connor.

And Mayor Moore.

Here.

Mayor.

All right.

We'll jump into the consent agenda tonight.

Oops, hold on.

First to ask for an approval for the agenda tonight.

Do we have a motion to approve?

So moved.

Second.

All right.

All in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

All opposed say no.

All right.

Now we have an agenda.

We have a number of items on the consent agenda, so please bear with me.

The first item is 2026 347, approval of the August 26, 2025 Town Council meeting minutes.

Next item is 2026 348.

Approval of the December 2nd, 2025 Town Council special meeting minutes.

Next item is item 2026 349, approval of the December 9th, 2025 Town Council meeting minutes.

And I'll just say these 2025 meeting minutes were missed in the process.

We haven't made updates.

They're just coming to us now.

The next item is uh 2026 351, a Memorial Day proclamation sponsored by Mayor Pro Tem Bell and Council Member O'Connor.

Item 2026 72, 2026 Pollinator Proclamation sponsored by Councilmember Pessaramelli and Councilmember O'Connor.

Item 2026 209, an ordinance of the town council of the town of Erie granting an easement to United Power and approving the associated easement agreement.

Item 2026 325, a resolution of the town council of the town of Erie approving an eighth amendment to the lease agreement with Vector Air Management Incorporated LLC.

Item 2026 336, the resolution of the town council of the town of Erie approving an amended 2026 Council Work Plan.

Item 2026 339, a resolution of the town council of the town area approving of the first amendment to the professional services agreement, task order with Kimley Horn Associates for the Design Services at Compass Park.

Item 2026 340, a resolution of the town council of the town area approving a first amendment to the professional service agreement.

Task order with Kimley Horn Associates for the Design Services at Morgan Hill Neighborhood Park.

And the last item is item 2026 343, a resolution of the town council of the town of Erie, adopting modifications to the rules and regulations governing the Erie Cemetery.

With that, do we have a motion to approve the uh consent agenda?

So move.

Second.

All right, motion is second.

All in favor, say aye.

Aye.

All opposed, say no.

All right.

We uh have approved the consent agenda.

We'll move forward to public comment.

Um this is a time uh for the public to address us on any um non-public hearing items.

Uh please remember that public comment is not an interactive QA forum, but rather a time for you to state your comments on a particular item or issue.

Public comment uh provides the opportunity to discuss items that are not public hearings.

Please sign up uh using the kiosk in the lobby.

If you have a handout, please give it to the town clerk to the left.

They will distribute uh to council and include it into the meeting records.

Uh, when called upon, please state your full name and location for the record.

Public comment is limited to three minutes per person.

You'll be given a 20-second warning when your three minutes are almost up.

At the three-minute mark, you'll be asked to wrap up your final sentence.

And all opinions are welcome, but please be respectful of each speaker to ensure everyone feels welcome and to share comments.

Please refrain from any cheering, clapping, booing, or otherwise disruptive behavior.

With that, I'll look to the town clerk.

I'm not sure when anybody has signed up.

Oh.

I'm a little surprised.

Would anybody like to address this?

Um public comment tonight.

Okay.

Um, seeing none, then we will move right into general business.

Um, and the first item is the 2026 327.

Um, it's the 2026 Pride Month Proclamation, sponsored by Council members um Bear and O'Connor and myself as the mayor.

And I'm gonna read the proclamation uh tonight.

This is the 2026 Pride Month Proclamation, whereas Pride Month is recognized each June to honor the history, resilience, and contributions of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, and other individuals and communities.

And whereas Pride Month commemorates the 1969 Stonewall Uprising, a pivotal moment in the movement towards greater equality, visibility, civil rights for the LGBTQIA plus individuals in the United States.

Whereas, despite progress towards equity and inclusion, many LGBTQIA plus individuals continue to experience discrimination, harassment, violence, and barriers to safety, acceptance, and opportunity.

And whereas the 2026 Pride Month theme for all of us, inspired by the words of Stonewall veteran Marcia P.

Johnson, there is no pride for some of us without liberation for all of us.

Honors the frequency of early LGBTQIA plus advocates, and recognizes the ongoing importance of inclusion, visibility, safe spaces, and equal opportunity for all members of the LGBTQ IA plus community, particularly those who continue to face discrimination, marginalization, and barriers to belonging.

And whereas the town of Erie encourages residents to celebrate Pride Month through afflection, education, community engagement, and acts of alleyship that strengthen unity and belonging throughout the community.

And whereas the town of Erie, whereas the progress toward recognizing and protecting the rights of the LGTBQ IA plus individuals has been shaped through decades of advocacy, landmark court decisions, civil rights protections, and presidential actions, including the recognition of June as Pride Month by President William J.

Clinton in 1999, and its continued annual recognition by subsequent administrations as a celebration of equality, visibility, and inclusion.

And now, therefore, the town council does hereby proclaim them that Pride Month be celebrated from June 1st to June 30th, 2026, and call upon all residents in the town of Erie to observe this month with appropriate ceremonies, activities, and programs.

This is dated the 26th day of May, 2026.

You can class for this time.

And I believe Gabby is hanging up the banners that will hang in our old town.

Is that correct?

Yeah, so these three devices around eight of each of them.

They will be hung on Bridge Street from June 1st on June 30th, the proclamation states.

So you'll be able to see these in the two major blocks on Brick Street, the 500 and 600 blocks.

So just a public left that up.

All right, wonderful.

All right, we're gonna move on to our next item of business, which is equally brought up and discussed in our community.

It's item 2026 345.

It's a presentation on our e-bike education and enforcement.

Um I'm gonna welcome up our police chief.

Mayor Council Lee Mathis, uh, police chief.

And I was asked to give you a quick presentation on our efforts surrounding e-bike education and enforcement.

Um as you know, this has been an uh issue for our community.

We want to make sure everybody stays safe, and everything that we're doing in this area is exactly that is to try and make kids out on their bikes, their e-bikes, uh, people on our trails, other bikers on pedal bikes.

We're trying to make it as safe as we possibly can.

So just to give you a quick update, um, we've been doing this for quite a while.

Uh, we started back in November where we sent out uh flyer in the utility bill insert, basically explaining what was legal and not legal on our trails.

I think that was even before that was what we were proposing was going to happen with our ordinance.

And uh we sent that out.

We sent 1,500 flyers were distributed by our school resource officers to uh students at our various schools.

Our Soaring Heights Parents Teacher Association put out a video series on e-bike safety, what's allowed, what's legal, and what's not legal.

And then we also do our social media weekly recap where we do try and emphasize e-bike safety, let the community know what we're doing in those in those areas and some of the things we're seeing.

Um as far as youth and community education, we've tried our best to involve youth in this.

Um with CDOT has a parent education class that we've been promoting.

It's a resource that's shared on their website.

And it's actually a class that parents can have their teams take before they send them out on their e-bikes.

So we've been trying to promote that.

Umchange, who's here tonight, which is great.

Uh also uh joined us at our booth at the bike derby event, and then they gave out bike lights and and helped us educate educate there some of the some of the younger kids on bike safety and and e-bike safety.

Um our communication has been strategic, and it's to raise awareness.

Uh, we have information on our website.

If you saw the CBS news story, I think it was back in March, maybe March, uh, April, uh, that featured Erie and some of our efforts in that area, and then just our social media engagement.

And as you know, we passed the ordinance.

Uh all of that information is is available and out there and being uh presented to folks as we contact them.

And then uh some things we've done in terms of signage on the trails, which I know is is uh still in progress, but we did have temporary signage as soon as we passed the e-bike ordinance allowing class one, two, and three e-bikes, uh class three on the roadways and class one and two on the trails and sidewalks.

We had temporary signage out there in the high traffic traffic areas.

Uh we worked with parks and rec on that.

Um we also had a long widespread discussion and it's continuing online on where those signs should be.

Uh we I know Luke, our our parks department is still working on permanent signage also for speed limit signs on our trails and our paths.

Uh enforcement is ongoing.

Uh we're we're constantly doing this.

I can tell you we don't go more than one day with without getting two to three.

We we get two or three calls a day on on youth on e-bikes, uh, either driving recklessly or driving where they shouldn't.

We respond to those with uh measured response.

Our our goal is education, obviously, uh, but we do at some point have to get to enforcement.

And we have issued a few tickets, but it's been probably 80, 90 percent warnings, and then speaking with the parents, letting them know that if a kid is on a particular type of e-bike that is not allowed, we let them know that that's not allowed.

And then if we have a repeat contact or or two, we will move to enforcement.

We do have some directed enforcement uh activities uh that are going to take place this summer.

I'm not gonna give out the dates or the details because that would kind of defeat the purpose.

But we want to make sure that we're getting those who don't really care about the laws and they're out there.

Um they they challenge us.

We're obviously never chasing kids on bikes.

We don't want them to get hurt with a police officer behind them trying to contact them.

If they run, they run.

But we have some ideas that we could do to help identify maybe some of the folks that that just do not want to follow the law and are endangering themselves and others.

And then uh like I said, I like I pointed out, our enforcement actions are guided by the risky behaviors and repeat offenders.

We're not out there trying to make it an U versus them or or trying to tell youths to get back indoors and play video games.

We're we're trying to help them be safe.

We're trying to make our trails and our our roads and our sidewalks as safe as possible with these devices.

So with that, um we do have some next steps.

Uh we are going to do some pump track visits and some skate park visits with the SROs over the summer.

Uh we've got some things planned for July 3rd uh to hand out some some things at the event there.

Uh National Night Out is coming up on Tuesday, August 4th at the community park.

We'll have an e-bike booth there to again help educate and and help folks understand what is allowed out there.

And then we have uh made arrangements to purchase a safety course for e-bikes to hopefully include that in the bike uh rodeo next year or or when we have an object opportunity to do that.

And so with that, I will take questions or discussions.

All right, I'll bring it back to council.

I certainly have a couple.

Go ahead.

Uh Councilman Hoback, and I'll just work my way around.

Thank you.

Um Thanks, Chief.

Um you said a pump track is it.

Do we have people riding e-bikes on the pump track?

We have them riding them at the pump track on our open space in the fields on the ball fields.

We get complaints of e-bikes almost everywhere, but the pump track is certainly one of them, also at the skate park in those places.

I guess that's that surprising.

Seems fun.

Yeah.

Um you give us an idea of the number of engagements that your your staff is has had.

And if you got a time frame, I certainly can get you a more exact number, but I would say we get two to three calls a day on complaints on reckless e-bike usage or e-bike usage where they shouldn't be or aren't allowed.

Now, obviously, we don't make contacts on every single one of those calls, but we do respond and we try to educate where we can.

And then you also have officer initiated contacts.

When an officer sees an e-bike that is obviously or or looks to not be allowed where it's supposed to where it's being ridden, the officer will attempt to make contacts there.

So I would say three to four a day at least with the officers contacting folks about e-bikes.

Thank you.

You bet.

Go ahead.

Thanks, Chief.

Appreciate all the efforts on this.

I know I know it's a big deal and really appreciate the eerie youth of for change uh team being here today because uh um it it I'd but I'm sure that kids would much rather hear from their peers than from us.

And and certainly don't want to be uh you know pulled over or whatnot.

So so appreciate that.

Um what would you say your the biggest challenge is?

Uh the biggest challenge, I believe, is is getting and I'll just put it out there the parents on board and understanding what is allowable and what is not and and not buying the bikes that put their children at risk.

When you're when you're buying a bike off of off of Amazon and it doesn't have that class one, two, or three classification, it's likely an illegal bike to be operated on the roadways, the trails, or the sidewalks.

And so I think that's our biggest challenge is is not only educating the youth, but educating the parents on what can and can't be ridden.

Okay, yeah, thanks.

And yeah, I don't think about being bike buying bikes on Amazon, but I guess that's a bigger thing than when I was a kid.

Um but uh what about the retail stores?

How are they helping to educate and the parents and the kids on on what bikes are are the proper bikes or what ones are illegal?

Yeah, I could certainly say that the bikes, the the bike stores in town are great as far as helping us educate what is allowed and where uh they're really good at having their bikes labeled.

I I can't really speak for some of the bigger stores, but I think there's a movement towards that too of you're not gonna see the ones that aren't allowed to be ridden at least on the roadway too much in the retail stores very much longer in the future.

That's good because it's not good for business either.

If they sell a bike that kids can't use it, they didn't tell them.

I'd I'd be a little upset.

Um great.

Uh any feedback on the signage yet, or uh as far as location or just general feedback from yeah folks that are are seeing are they seeing a change or whatnot, or or is it too a little early yet?

I would say some of the feedback on the signage is we obviously need more.

Uh you know, we have a speed limit on our trails now, and then for enforceability, it's important for us to get that signage out there when we can.

But but it's also important to get it at the location that's needed.

I mean, you can't just stick signs every 10 feet, they become part of the uh part of the environment.

People start to ignore them.

So important to get the location right and then also have it in the right place, you know, at the right time.

Yeah, thanks a lot, and thanks for what you get to do.

Council Member Bear.

Thank you.

Um so thanks for this.

Um Councilmember Hoback and I are at the rec center every Thursday for senior lunch.

And last week, um there were some kiddos hanging out in the lobby and just started chatting with us.

Um Jack and Charlie and Joelle, and there was a fourth one, and I can't remember your name.

I'm so sorry.

Um but we talked for a good 10 or 15 minutes, and um they mentioned they had ridden their bikes and some of them had scooters.

Um we started talking about e-bikes.

I had also ridden my e-bike over to the recenter.

So they um we just I just asked them questions about you know what kind of bikes are legal.

They seem to have an awareness of what's not and what is, um, and a lot of their friends have ones that aren't legal, not them, of course.

These four kids are angels.

Um you want to give me their last names and they didn't give me their last names.

I don't even know if these are their real names.

Um but I asked, you know, what their experience was, and they said they feel a lot of anger um from adults, and they said, and I said, who do you think is um making reports?

And they said, I don't know, probably Karen's like your age.

It's like, yeah, you're probably right.

Um but uh so I just as we were going through this conversation, and they're not wrong, right?

They're and we talked about safety and how it's scary to see a kid who might be in danger and we want to help.

Um so we talked more about like what what would help bring awareness and the community together.

And um one of them actually said, I think we should have a meeting where we where the Karen's come together with the kids.

And uh so that you know, this is something that I have been saying.

I think would be really great to sort of facilitate the conversation, ensure that we have policy that reflects the needs of the adults because also you know our senior lunch folks are they're they're living this the fear, right?

They can't jump out of the way if if an e-bike comes speeding around the corner.

Um but then these kiddos are just trying to have fun and um so anyway, reinforce that need for the the common conversation, like everyone at the same table.

Um and then I think that also reduces the ability to um other people and we lean into humanity.

I I'm always a fan of that.

So I just wanted to share that experience and that story, and also I just thought it was so cute that those kids just started chatting with Councilmember Hoback.

Um Henry?

Was there a Henry?

Henry, yeah, that sounds right.

Let's let's say it was Henry.

Um anyway, so I and I also think um, because I do have a 15-year-old son who would love to have an e-bike.

There's still some confusion about pedals and what if it looks a certain way, but it still has the sticker.

So I you know, there's always more we can do.

I wonder if we are there are there videos?

I know C dot has videos we can repost, but are there specific videos for eerie we could develop?

You know, there are the C dot has a great resource on their website of what what an e-bike is and is it in class one, two, and three, and and our ordinance follows that almost exactly.

And when you talk about pedals, it's gotta have pedals.

If it doesn't have pedals, it's not an e-bike.

Working pedals, too.

Working pedals.

Yes, yes, absolutely.

It has to have pedals or it's not an e-bike.

If it if it's an electrically driven motorcycle or even an electric scooter, it's not allowed on our trails and our sidewalks.

And and I know the kids don't like that, but that's the way it is for everyone's safety.

And I I understand that.

I've certainly be willing to stand at a meeting, answer questions.

Um, you know, for any any of those kinds of things that we can.

Um I think you might find some folks reluctant to do that.

Not necessarily at the senior lunch, but but and and the kids that talk to you, that's that's awesome.

I mean those are the kids we're looking for.

They're usually the kids that stop and talk to us.

The ones that don't, they're the ones sometimes that I think are generating a lot of the complaints.

The ones that are like, catch me if you can.

Yeah.

Um, and and we'll we'll we'll work on that part too.

Yeah.

Well, it wasn't those guys, but another person that same day pointed out a bike that was locked to the rec center.

That's illegal.

Yeah, I and I agree with you, council member.

I think I think a lot of the kids know um when we contact them, sometimes they they may not admit it, but they know what's allowed and what's not.

And and then this conversation, a larger conversation with our parents and and whether they're allowed to ride that bike.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I and I like the idea of the outreach for the parents because yeah, it's a little overwhelming at what's available and what's labeled what might not be labeled.

Where to look for the label, all of that is good information.

And it is important to point out that our ordinance regarding vehicles on the roadway, uh, if they're not legal to be driven on the roadway, we can actually charge the parents uh because they allowed their child to do that.

Uh we've done that in a couple cases, but we do it in extreme cases where we're just not getting the education through.

Good to know.

All right, Mayor Pro Tim.

Yep, thank you.

Um yeah, thanks for reporting this.

And I would just say for council member Bear's sake, it's it's not just the Karen's.

I like I uh just it's the car also.

Yeah.

Uh there were some uh kids I saw riding around Clayton Park, and I was driving by there.

I just pulled over and I said, Hey guys, you can't be riding on the grass.

And you know, they must have been big fans of mine because they told me I was number one with uh different finger.

But um those are the catch me if I can guys, yeah, those are the ones.

Yeah.

Um so uh FYI, you're a Karen.

Yeah, there we go.

There we go.

What's what's Ken with the utter um anyway?

I'll just say that uh it it's it's been a struggle.

Um I I know especially we're counselor hoback and I live uh um yeah, just uh the the nature of Clayton Park and Highlands that it's like a racetrack for them.

So um and you know they like to do wheelies right down the middle of the street.

Um uh going back to something you said earlier about um uh the parent education and and making it the parents understand about what what's allowable, what's not allowable.

And I I think in addition to the Amazon problem you mentioned, I and correct me if I'm wrong.

I thought even on like the class threes, don't you have to be a uh have a valid driver's license to correct well, you don't have to have a developed driver's license, but you have to be 16 years old.

So 16 years old, yeah.

Okay, yeah.

So uh and it again, it's hard to judge you know, kids' age is looking at them.

So 16 years old yeah exactly so and it again it's hard to judge you know kids' age just looking at them I've probably maybe not the best judge of that but there's some I look and I'm like uh not sure if they're 16 um so seeing that a lot I and and again I think the parents just aren't aware so um also appreciate our our you community youth uh being a part of the solution because I think that's although you uh uh girls you got you gotta get the boys involved with this too like uh yeah oh go okay okay yeah because they're out riding their uh e-bikes yeah there we go but yeah so thank you all right councilman Peterson one was uh how hard is it to enforce an end and like punish or is that happening or yeah thank you for that question you're right it is it's a hard one to enforce um you know we're we're not out there trying to spoil anybody's fun we certainly can't get behind kids and chase them when they run away from us we're not gonna do that we're not gonna put these kids in danger to catch them and give them a ticket um we try and be very reasonable with our enforcement um and and try and do it in a way that that helps the offenders understand you know the risk that they're putting themselves and others in the community at and uh I heard some concerns from people why don't we put cops on rails to catch these and do the enforcement part of it.

I was talking to them about the education part and then see how it goes and your department is doing that already.

The second question is um do you involve the parents in when you're counseling these kids at the same time or we we do so we'll we'll contact them after we contact the kids and let them know hey this is the officer should now we get busy and we might miss one or two but but we do very try very hard to contact the parents and let them know that we contacted their kid on this bike and if they get contacted again they could receive a citation or the parent could receive a citation as well.

I want to go back to where you talk about cops on the trail that's part of the plan uh but I won't say where and and obviously we can't have cops on the trails all the time we do have other priorities and and that's part of the challenge of enforcement as well.

So yeah don't leak the exact location no we have our own e-bikes that that we may use to be out on the trails and and help educate be like remember chips from the 70s yeah like whatever they need the e-bike version of that like exactly well I just went on Amazon and it says I can click here and I'll have my 45 mile an hour not e-bike but dirt electric dirt bike at my house tomorrow.

If I want the 65 mile an hour one I have to wait until Monday.

So that is how fast you can actually um council member bear would you like me to just double check and all right I may have been in the generation uh that was skateboarding.

And I may have been in the generation that was in empty swimming pools and causing havoc at the time.

And as a society we figured out the skateboarding problem right we built skate parks we educated we put those little uh metal things on the edges so you know we weren't tearing up our streets.

I don't know what the answer is here but it seems like as a society we're gonna have to figure that out eventually.

Can you tell us a little bit about accidents uh involving e-bikes in the in the town both auto and e-bike accidents and e-bike pedestrian and maybe even e-bike e-bike absolutely I think what we're seeing the most of Mayor it's a great question is is e-bike uh versus car or car bar car versus e-bike we're seeing that at intersections where you would expect the typical uh conflicts to be um bikes not looking cars not seeing cars not looking the whole the whole thing the whole thing and we've been I won't say lucky but we have been um we've only had one very serious e-bike that I think everybody's aware of um thankfully that young man did survive um but but it was that was a close call and and I think we are I hate to say it but we may have more of those this is a problem that's that's not going away very quickly uh you you mentioned skateboarding you know it's gonna take some community awareness of parental involvement um only thing I'll point out is that speeding has been illegal on our roadways for a very long time and police have done everything we can to address the speeding problem because speed kills and and when cars are driven fast they are big heavy pieces of metal and you can say the same thing about an e-bike or or an e-motorcycle going 65 miles an hour.

All it takes is one 15 year old on that e-bike um that doesn't see a car or or makes a bad decision and and you have a tragedy and and so we will continue to do our best with enforcement and education to address the problem as best as we possibly can but I hope that everybody understands that this is something we have to tackle as a community with with parents and everybody because those tragedies may be headed our way if we don't approach it in a different way.

But I hope that everybody understands that this is something we have to tackle as a community with parents and everybody because those tragedies may be headed our way if we don't approach it in a different way.

Yeah.

It feels like it's just a matter of time.

Something will happen and it won't be good.

Have we reached out to St.

Brain Valley School District and Boulder Valley School District to see if we can't get into lunch hour or morning announcements or anything like that?

Yep, we certainly have.

And our SROs have been very active in our schools, especially with summer coming up, uh passing out those flyers of hey, here's what's legal, here's what's not legal.

Um we try to do our best in the schools because that's where we build our relationships with our SROs.

And so that's actually how we're identifying some of the kids that are catching me if I can, because they they bride their bike to school, and our SROs know who they are and they see their bike, and so when their bike gets described, or we have or we see their bike out there, we can actually contact them.

So, you know, the kids are great.

I want them to have their fun, but but we also want to make sure the ones that are putting themselves at risk and others at risk, we we contact them if we can.

All right.

And Boulder Valley, they pulled their SRO at some point, correct?

Did they bring them back?

Yeah, they do not currently have SROs in their schools.

They do have campus security, who we also work with.

Um they are employees of Boulder Valley School District, but we we keep in contact with them well as well and work with them over at Metalwork.

All right.

Um then on July 3rd, we're gonna have a big fireworks display.

Is that an appropriate venue just to hand out flyers to the parents?

Yep, I think that's a great opportunity, Mayor.

I think you're exactly right.

We do have some things planned there to try and help educate, and then also our national night out.

Uh yes.

Okay.

Cool.

Well, I appreciate you doing the best you can.

Um, I think we're going to continue to see our community um be frustrated that more isn't being done, but I think you've explained why it's very difficult to do more without putting somebody else in harm chasing, for example.

Um I think um Councilmember Petrameli's uh question about parent involvement and when we you know go and talk to the parents, and if they're not engaging, you know, that we bring them in for accountability as well in some way.

Yep.

Um I realize that's a fine line there as you build relationships, but also have to do the harder job too.

Yeah, Mayor, and if you'd like to get an idea of our enforcement efforts, we we did post a video on our Facebook page the other last week, I think, with some engagements where we've had and and how we address the youth and how we address the problem.

It's generating a few comments, obviously.

Um, but uh, but it kind of gives you an idea of how we're approaching and we'll continue to do our best.

All right, and the last thing I'll say is that if you do see an e-bike or any safety concern in our community, please call 303 441 4444.

That's the non-emergency number, and uh the police will respond.

Thank you.

All right, thanks for coming out and doing this.

Thank you.

I know.

All right, we'll go on to our next uh topic, um, which is the 2026, which is 2026 330 ERI Youth for Change annual presentation.

So please come up and uh and join us.

All right, good evening.

Um my name is Savannah Schiffrain.

I'm the general interest coordinator with our parks and rec department.

So, first off, I want to thank all of you for your support of this program.

This is a very small part of my role here with the town, but it's definitely the part that brings me the most joy.

Um, Air Youth for Change is our informal teen town council here in the town of Erie if you haven't encountered us before.

And this is their second year of existence, and they have a lot to share with you today about all of their accomplishments.

In addition to thanking you all for your support, I also want to support or thank Luth Luke Bollinger and Rachel Wyf, the leadership of my department for supporting me as well in helping get this program off the ground.

Um, my role is as the staff liaison for these incredible group of teens.

I make connections for them and I remove obstacles, but mostly I try to get out of the way and let them do what they know how to do.

So, in that spirit, I'm gonna let them introduce themselves.

Great.

Yes.

Okay.

Um is Neha Passarameli.

I had the pleasure of presenting um last year.

Um and I will be an incoming freshman at the University of Wisconsin, Madison.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

Hi, everyone.

My name is Sam Medi.

I'm a rising senior at Peak to Peak Charter School, and I'm gonna be the co-chair for EYC next year.

Excellent.

Hi, my name is Nye Boyd, and I'm a rising senior at Holy Family High School, and I will be co-chair with Sam.

Excellent.

My name is Elise Kwe, and I'm an upcoming junior at Peak2 Peak.

Excellent.

Hi, my name is Marissa Shesla, and uh I'm an upcoming junior at Uri High School.

All right, excellent.

Um then we're also missing um Claire Nguyen in Pranavimantha, who are um part of our leadership team last year.

Um we made a video just talking a little bit, briefing a little bit about some of our events and who we are.

Um and so we'll probably play the video first and then talk a little bit about a little brochure we made, outlining a few more details.

Great.

Erie Youth for Change is a group of local teens who serve on an informal teen town council here in Erie.

Their goal is to provide a link between the town of Erie and our local teen population.

My name is Trisha, and I joined EYC to make a difference in my community.

My name is Elise, and I joined AYC because I wanted my voice to be heard.

Hi, my name is Marissa Stressa, and I am part of the Erie Youth for Change.

My name is Neha, my name is Panami.

And my name is Claire.

And we're your 2025, 2026 EYZ leadership.

As an organization, we hope to represent youth voices and foster positive change across our community.

This school year, EYC recruited five brand new members and now represent four of our local schools.

This year, our main goal was intergenerational connection, bringing together various generations across Erie.

My favorite part of EYC was bringing back TechFest for the second year.

My favorite part of the UIC was gingerbread making in December and helping the kids out during winter break.

But TechFist is all about is seniors coming to the Every Rec with their technology.

And us, Eerie Youth for Chain volunteers will help you with your technology questions.

In addition, EYC partnered with the Erie Community Library to host a summer reading buddies program.

And hosted a gingerbread making assembly at Camp Eerie's Winter Camp.

Hi, my name is Sam, and I'm the co-chair.

Hi, my name is Naya, and I'm the co-chair.

My name is Elise, and I'm the new secondary.

And we're your 2026 to 2027 leadership team.

Our goals for next year is to continue connecting multi-generations through events like Tech Fest and Pickleball, a new event that we came up with this year.

It's gonna be Pickleball under the lights in June.

Eerie Youth for Change have already accomplished so much in their first two years.

We can't wait to see what's next for this dedicated group of teams.

Thank you for that.

I guess I was in it, but um again, my name is Neha, and I have the pleasure of being a co-chair this year for Ear Youth for Change.

Um do they have the brochures?

We we don't yet, but oh, all good.

I'm sorry.

That'll probably be important to be looking at.

Um, but as the video covered, um, EYC is a group of high school students.

Um we're currently around 13, and we represent four different schools in the local area.

Um our main goal is to be advocates for our community for our demographic.

Um, and so we host various events and try to find opportunities to connect with our community and serve in Erie.

Um so our main focus as an organization is what we like to call intergenerational connection.

The idea is that we want to bridge gaps between different generations in Erie and find opportunities and host events to bring different age groups together.

And so last year our main event was Techfist, which was essentially a space where older members of our community could come in and bring their technology questions and enjoy breakfast, hence Techfist.

Um, and this has been a really popular event.

We've been able to not only help out some of our seniors with their tech issues, but also connect with them, um, which has been a really big problem because we've before we even started TechFist realized that there's so much stigma and so many negative stereotypes with both demographics, and we feel like we've really found opportunities to find common ground and connect with our older generations.

Um this year we also had the opportunity of going out into our community and really connecting with more our broader community as well.

So we were able to host a table at Bruan Briggs, um, we were at the Strider Derby a couple weeks ago, um, and we also volunteered at the Dia de los Muertos event, um, which has been really awesome.

We got to meet a lot of our community as well as organizations in Erie, and so it feels like we're really kind of spreading our wings um in the community.

Um and then finally, this year we were able to kind of go the other way in intergenerational connection, and we hosted a gingerbread making segment at camp.

Um, and so we got to spend some time with some of the little kids there and do some crafts and gingerbread, which feels like kind of a full circle moment where we're kind of connecting with all sorts of different age groups.

Um, and so overall we experienced a lot of new change this year.

We had a bunch of new events and new opportunities, and also brought in so many new members, which have brought cool perspectives and really just brightened up our group.

And so we're really excited to keep embracing new change and looking to the future.

And so they already introduced themselves, but I would love to pass the baton on to our new leadership team who is going to talk a little bit more about some of our future events as well as some of our goals for next year.

Hi, my name is Naya Boyd, and as you already know, I'm an incoming senior at Holy Family High School, and I joined EYC because I really wanted to make a difference in my community and connect with teens in the community.

I'm taking on the position of co-chair with my partner Sam, and I would love to bring a unique twist into the group and integrate more teen events in order to allow teens to further connect with each other and grow more intimate connections.

Thank you.

Hi everyone.

Like Naya mentioned, I'm the other co-chair of EYC, and my name is Sam Metty.

I'm a rising senior at Peak2Peak Charter School.

And I joined EYC because I really wanted to be more connected in my community.

And one of the major events that EYC has started planning this year to connect all the teams together is Pickleball under the lights, which is happening next Friday at the ERUREC Center, which is a pickleball tournament where all teens under 18 can come play and hopefully win a prize.

And also to bring one new event each year.

So this year that has been the pickleball event, and next year we plan on hosting a PG 13 family movie night where a bunch of families can come play lawn games together and hopefully watch a movie outdoors in the summer.

So yeah, thank you.

Nice.

Good evening.

My name is Marissa, and as you know, I'm an upcoming junior at Erie High School.

I am currently a secretary for the Eure Youth for Change alongside with Louise.

And Eerie Youth for Change is a student-led organization dedicated to giving youth a voice and creating a positive change in our community.

We appreciate the opportunity to speak tonight and hope to continue strengthening the connection between students and our local leader leadership.

My name is Elise.

As you know, I attend Peak to Peak Charter School.

I'm the other secretary for Eerie Youth for Change.

And I'd like to say that next year we hope to create more involvement in our community, especially for teens, families, as well as continuing our ongoing projects.

Just to echo what Marissa said, we just wanted to thank the council for your continuous support over our first year as well as this year.

And we're really excited to come back next year and share some new progress that we've had as well as some more updates.

So thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Excellent.

Thank you.

Yep, we're going to be able to do that.

And we would like to take a picture with council.

All right, ready?

Perfect.

One two.

Oh sure.

I spoke for too long.

Yeah, sure.

Thank you so much.

Really appreciate that.

Go for it.

Let's do it.

No.

We get to ask questions.

All right.

Thank you so much for the presentation.

It's so exciting to see everything you guys have done this year and plans for next year, as we just talked about how important that connection is with you know, specifically the teens in town and around e-bikes and some other safety issues.

I think that that's a place where Youth for Change can really step in and help the adults figure it out, you know, help us.

So I really recognize that we needed a youth council when I attended doing Democracy Day a couple years ago for the St.

Brain School District.

And um just I got to talk with a bunch of juniors and seniors from all over St.

Brain Valley School District, and they asked questions, they were doing projects, they were solving problems in communities.

And so I talked with them about questions about um speeding um road safety for new drivers.

We talked about the use of Narcan and access to that in schools because kids were seeing friends overdose and how important that was.

And um we talked about youth homelessness.

There were so many topics that they were really adept and really had a deep understanding because this was their daily life, and I thought this is what we're missing.

And Erie, we need to hear from our youth because you guys really experience you know what are the issues, and we're sort of removed from them.

So I really look forward to being able to connect on a policy level with um with you guys and future councils too.

Um, because I think it's important that we're hearing when we're talking about e-bike safety.

What does that look like on the other side of the coin?

Because we maybe are only looking at it from one direction.

So um I think I saw Owen at the Martin Luther King Jr.

Day event in in Lafayette, and so I got to talk with him then about maybe some connection with the Lafayette Council.

They have a very active youth council.

Have you guys been able to connect with them or make plans for next year or anything?

Um, I think we had an attempt to connect with them this year, but it kind of just got a little lost in translation.

But that is definitely one of our goals for next year is to make sure that that connection is there.

Yeah, I think that would be great.

And then also Broomfield has a great youth council.

I think it would be amazing to kind of bring together a UN of sorts and have all you all of the kids connect and um maybe bring council members in so we can hear about some of the things that you guys are talking about.

And um, yeah, I think that there could be more engagement.

I'm so amazed and compelled by your leadership and the things you've been able to accomplish.

I love Techfist.

I went last year, and my favorite thing was um uh one of one of our seniors said that she needed help downloading Spotify, so she could listen to her favorite song, and then she turned it on after we downloaded Spotify, and it was jelly roll.

It's our favorite song, and she black she blared it.

So anyway, um, I think that you the small things like downloading Spotify onto someone's phone are really the big things because their connection and um and that's such an important part of leadership.

And um, I just want to say girl power, you guys are amazing.

I'm so excited for um for what's next, and please reach out to us if there's something we can we can do to support you guys, or if there's something we need to be aware of conversation we need to be part of.

So yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah, we'll put councilman bearer.

Go ahead.

So thanks for being here tonight and and helping to educate the the community.

I love the fact that you're starting to reach out to other communities and youth groups.

Um certainly you give us a whole different perspective.

It's been a little while since we were uh considered youth.

Uh so appreciate that, and and um just being a part of the community, uh trying to be in a help helpful hand, hopeful hand to us.

So, yeah, please let us know what we can do to help you guys out because we appreciate your voice and uh and and what you guys are doing.

So thanks a lot.

Thank you.

All right, I'll just say thank you as well for coming out.

My political career got started in high school, not because I ran for office because I went on close up to DC, and it was with a bunch of other schools, and I think that connection.

So one of the things that jumps out here is that Erie High is represented.

Centaurus is represented.

A lot of people don't know that on the Boulder Valley side of Erie, you're uh Centaurus High School is the home high school, so that's great.

Uh Holy Family, Peak to Peak.

Um I think that covers them all.

No one's a Dawson, right?

No.

Um but wonderful, and um, I would be happy to, as Councilmember Bear said, um, you know, if we could come out and participate in discussions or talk policy, I think um many of us would um would be there and participate in the conversation.

Thank you so much.

All right, have a great evening.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

All right, we will move on to item 2026 346, an ordinance of the town council, the town of Erie consolidating all provisions of the Erie Municipal Code related to penalties and enforcement for code violations.

This sounds like a perfect topic for our attorney.

It is.

It's also a follow-up from our study session on March 31st.

We took this ordinance to you all to have a brief conversation.

There are two Colorado Supreme Court cases, Camp and Simons that stand for the proposition that there can be no municipal penalty that is tougher than the equivalent state law penalty.

Our judge had put in an administrative order to prevent anything from conflicting, but this is going to make sure that those are both cleared up and taken care of.

What we've also done is we've simplified how the code itself looks and uh made it very clear on how our code enforcement folks can issue citations and do their own enforcement work.

So it a bit of a cleanup bill or excuse me, cleanup ordinance in here.

And I'm ready for questions if you have any.

All right.

Any questions tonight for a town attorney?

Councilmember Bear?

It's basically what we talked about.

I didn't notice nothing jumped out at me as being different.

It's all the same information.

Okay.

It is there's a little bit of a change in that the table was changed a little bit after some feedback from our judge.

But yes, uh, you are correct.

Nothing substantively has changed.

Okay, I will see if there's a motion to approve ordinance 23-2026.

So moved, second.

We have a motion and second.

Any further discussion?

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

All opposed, say no.

Motion carries.

All right.

Now we'll move on to the heavier items on the agenda tonight.

2026 338 water allocation policy and implementation items number one, an ordinance of the town council of the town of Erie amending chapter one of Title VIII of the Erie Municipal Code to amend the water dedication and fee in lieu water dedication requirements.

Number two, a resolution of town council of the town area approving and adopting the town of Erie water allocation policy.

Number three, a resolution of the town council of the town of Erie adopting the town's fee schedule.

And number four, an ordinance of the town council of the town erie amending section 912 of chapter one of Title IX of the Erie Municipal Code to revise the local amendments related to permitting permitting in the International Residential Code.

And with that, I'll turn it over to our director of development, Sarah Numela.

I purposely made the title that long to buy me time.

So Sarah Normala, Planning and Development Director.

I am joined by Todd Fessenden up here, our utilities director.

But as you can see, there are many other directors that have been involved with developing this policy, including our economic development, parks and rec, public works, finance, communications, and my deputy director.

So wanted to just shout out that this is a multi-departmental effort.

So tonight we will be going through a somewhat complex set of motions that will implement the overall water allocation policy that we'll be presenting to you tonight.

So I will try and walk you through each piece of it.

So the intent for this water allocation policy is to help us set a course for delivering the remaining water allocations that we have within our constraints supply within the town.

We currently have multiple water projects that are delayed that should have been delivered sooner.

And we as a result have about 749 remaining acre feet that we would like to be able to allocate to development while we are working on developing additional water supply and waiting for those other water projects to come to fruition.

And that means continued development.

I'll walk you through those in more detail.

So as I mentioned, we have a limited supply of water.

And I will always let Todd jump in if you would like.

Quickly will mention that.

As you all know, the Northern Integrated Supply Project, which we'll be talking about later on tonight, has been hit various roadblocks along the way.

But there's been some challenges with that project as well.

So we're projecting about a five to six year delay while they mitigate the uranium in that reservoir, which would have been delivering water as soon as next year.

And now it has to be mitigated and incrementally filled over time.

So those are the challenges the projects were coming along and ready to deliver in a timely fashion.

So as Sarah mentioned, we've been obtaining other water.

We've purchased 123, I think, um shares of CBT, Colorado Big Thompson water, and that's what's affecting the price.

So we've spent about 7.2 million dollars so far this year acquiring how much water, which is about the amount of water we'll be allocating annually.

So for us to be able to keep up and keep developing our supply, that's that's a cost that we're realizing right now.

And we're also looking at other alternative uh other types of supplies as well.

But without getting too far down in the weeds on that, I'll pass it back to Sarah.

Thank you, Todd.

And and so with this supply, we do want to be able to address the needs of our capital projects, as we all know.

We're working on an expansion of the police building as well as a potential um expansion of the ECC that could come into the future, and other projects.

And these capital projects are different throughout the you know, with with each year, but we will be planning to make sure that those needs are being met.

At the same time, we have new developments that are continuing to build out, and that includes both residential and commercial development.

And what that looks like in terms of a map is that we have multiple projects that are in various stages of development.

So when we talk about the stages, uh development can be just in a very rudimentary planning stage or under application, but it may not have zoning, it may not have any entitlements to build, those are in yellow on this map.

And then we have projects that are in some level of entitlement, i.e., they have their zoning, they may have a preliminary plat, but they don't have the final plats and they're and basically cannot pull a building permit to build, they have more work to do.

That's those projects are in green on this map, and then we have projects that are entitled and platted.

That means they can and are pulling building permits and developing actively, and those projects are in purple.

They include both commercial and residential, the ones that are in the bigger color blocks, those are residential projects primarily, and then there are little stars that show where commercial developments are occurring.

So the policy is structured to make sure that we are providing allocations, not only annually, but to specific uses.

So with the remaining water supply, and of course that will change every year as we acquire more, we will set an annual allocation.

And that allocation will be distributed among the following uses.

The first is a contingency use, it's really just for the town manager to be able to apply to whatever emergency or unexpected need might arise.

Public projects, as I mentioned before, those are those capital improvement projects that again would be in our capital improvement plan and would change and evolve each year.

Economic development, that's primarily our commercial and industrial and office development, and residential development.

Those projects that you saw on the pre on the map on the previous slide, those are the types of projects that we would be giving allocations to, and the ones that are entitled and platted.

We may determine that limiting the monthly number of allocations is needed to make sure that we continue to have development occurring throughout the year.

At this point, we're looking at a pretty steady pace that will not necessarily based on the number of permits that we're seeing each month.

We don't think that we'll actually need to limit them, but we may if if we feel like that's a need.

Because we don't have an affordable housing project at a stage where we think that we'd be able to utilize those allocations this year, we aren't allocating any at that at this time.

So if we do have any unused allocations, those would roll into the back into the bank, and so we would allocate those into future years.

That's the basics of the water allocation policy, but there are some details.

In order to implement it, we are proposing changes to Title VII.

We have two emergency ordinances this evening for your consideration.

These are primarily set as emergency ordinances so that we can immediately be responsive to the water allocation policy and ensure that the changes that we're proposing in here are in alignment, keep us to and minimize speculative reaches for our allocations and making sure that with if somebody is paying for an allocation, they are actually going to be using it this year.

So Title VI is actually just removing the preference that we state in our code for fee and lieu for water dedication.

We want to make it clear immediately that we do want to open this up for developers to be able to bring their own water.

So we are adding language to that effect.

They can do it right now, but it's we state it as a preference, and we want to change that.

In Title 9, which is essentially our building code sections, we are updating the residential building code and primarily adjusting the application and issuance timeline.

So right now you can hold a building permit application for 180 days or six months.

Once you get the building permit, you can also have six months or 180 days to do any type of work on the building permit.

We are reducing the lengths of both of those from 180 days to 90 days.

Again, focusing on if you're applying for a building permit or if you're having one issued to you that you are actually acting on it.

So we are also with that adding clarity and a definition of what an active building permit should include.

So we right now are kind of silent on what is the detail, what does that mean to have an active to be actively under construction?

So we added some detail essentially it's constructing your foundation.

And then the water allocation is will be reserved at the time you pay your fee and lie, and you can do that at two times, one at the application of your building permit, or when you get it issued.

So we want to give some flexibility to folks.

But this fee and loo cost is actually reflected in our fee schedule.

And so we're updating the fee schedule.

And this would all be effective May 27, 2026.

So I repeated myself there.

With our next steps, in addition to this being effective tomorrow, we would be reaching out to developers and builders to just help them answer, you know, answer questions.

I know this is a new process and policy that they will need to absorb.

So we are setting up a stakeholder meeting this week and as well as office hours this week and into next week, and I will create more as needed and want to make sure that people have a chance to um you know get their questions answered.

And there's anything else.

Um I think this is just a little bit of a repeat, but we will as I mentioned require the payment of the fee and lie at the time of building application or at building permit issuance, and that's when you would actually acquire and reserve your water allocation.

So I wanted to just make that clear.

And if your building permit, or you're building your if your application or your building permit should expire, then you would need to get a refund of your fee and lie payment.

So that's you would or would not.

You you would be able to ask for one.

Um we have more detail on the timing of those.

You would fill out a form for the refund.

We are holding back five percent of the fee and lie.

Um we do this typically with any fees that are paid to the town.

Some are 10%, some are five percent, some have a high um a maximum limit, et cetera.

So our refund policy will be similar to what our policy is for other impact fees, but you would be able to ask for a refund.

Um I will open it up to questions and discussion.

All right, I'll bring it back.

I think we'll do one round.

I think I'll start with the mayor pro ten this time and just loop around.

Sure.

Uh thank you, and thank you for the update on this.

Um a couple things.

First, um year to date, do you know where we're at on building permits?

I don't have May's number, but we're at about uh I think it was 87.

We had about uh just over 50 single family detached and then a few around 20, some odd uh townhomes or duplexes.

Okay, yeah.

Um I guess overall one concern I have with and I totally understand the policy, but um obviously we're putting limitations on our own budget by doing that.

So um I guess I guess this is more recorded.

Sarah, do you mind sorry I'm fear ask the right people?

Yeah, there we go.

Um Sarah Hancock, director of finance.

Thank you.

Umcies for the budget based on this, if we're going through because it sounds like that with the number we're at, we'll probably gonna be pushing the threshold.

So yeah, um, how are we gonna deal with that on the budgetary standpoint?

So um as sorry, I feel like I'm far away from this.

As you may remember from last year, we actually budgeted our building permits at a negative one from the prior year simply because we were seeing a slowing permits.

Um, so more or less that means around 350 to 400 permits, give or take, because each permit's a little bit different.

Um, and effectively, we've seen our revenue cut in half in that area.

So from about four or four and a half million down to more two, two point two five.

Um, so it's not a huge part of our revenue in terms of the permit itself.

Now the fees and lose and other things like that are different attributes to it, but the permits themselves are not like don't represent like a substantial amount of our revenue, and we're already budgeting for that flattening.

So, yes, we would continue to see it go down a little bit more, um, but we have already started to build that into our um our budget assumptions this year.

Um, and part of this process was to really understand that.

Um, but again, it's not enough of uh of an impact that it would like blow out some section of the budget that we wouldn't be able to like provide services anymore.

We would just have to adjust accordingly.

Um and I think part of what we were talking about too was the staff time and everything involved in it.

We we recognize when you have less permits, you know, we might be able to allocate resources, move things around and see how that would work.

But from just a purely number standpoint, um it's not it would be going down but it's not substantial enough that I'm concerned.

Okay.

Yep.

Long winded yeah um so I guess my next question would be um with some of the economic development projects and things like that.

So we're working on LOIs with certain developers and things like that.

I know we're having this round table with developers but uh is there a general sense that they're aware of what's going on with this I see Julian coming up so well I will um so the development community is they are learning the details about this today and then moving forward with respect to how we allocated economic development allocations we looked at what projects were actually in planning and which would be delivered in 2026 and we will do that every year and prioritize economic development because it's not a huge portion but we want to make sure it's covered.

Okay.

What she said.

All right uh Julian Jack Recon development director I did try to get all the water for economic development that was not successful.

100% wasn't flying um but yeah the 15% was made up based off what's in the pipeline so that we knew based off applications, what's in the queue, how much in square footage, how much that translates to acre feet what we need and that's what's currently set aside.

Because we will set certain allocations annually based off what's in LOI stage or contract stage in future years we can revisit whether it's 15 or 100 or somewhere in between.

Okay.

It's on the record you you can bet Julian but we fight for that um so my next question would be and I know you mentioned about developers potentially being able to bring their own water I know I I think we kind of talked about that in either or situation would potentially a developer be able to get whatever their allocation is through the through the fee and loo and then if they could bring additional water if they have additional permits that they're they'd be looking for can they bring that additional on their own with that yeah I don't I don't see any reason why we wouldn't allow them if they want to bring their own water uh to do more if they got some so some of the allocation and then they wanted to bring more water to do more that's uh someone could come and bring a thousand acre feet and and build a whole giant thing if they wanted to if they could we need it to be of the quality we can treat at our treatment plant.

I know there's been some talk about some projects that could deliver water already finished.

CBT is in is the easiest one for us because we were already plugged into that system so the there's an opportunity for them to go out and find that water as well but um some water uh like South Platte water for instance if we can't treat that at our treatment plant and um it would get very expensive and I think we've solved the riddle on do we need another treatment plan and I think the answer is no but we have a lot of uh work and planning to do around that and I will I'll also mention we're also working on develop continuing to develop our boulder creek supply um which uh depending on how we utilize it could be group could be expanded to deliver quite a bit of water and maybe anywhere from a thousand and and up acre feet uh could be quite a bit more but it's just kind of depends on how we operate it.

So these are all things that we've been kind of working around figuring out how do we um keep the keep a building our water supply while we're waiting for this next big water project to deliver.

I think that's all I have for now just uh certainly with I the mysking these questions is is in lieu of we're we're obviously facing a problem right now that you know a lot of it was unforeseen like the the uranium at at chimney hollow and and um causing some of those delays but I I I guess the um my fear in these kind of things it's like you know is is eerie open for business type of thing and uh you know sending the right signals to everyone that that yeah we we've got we're we're not doing this to try to slow growth we're trying to manage what we do have until you know we get some of these other things online.

Um the other thing I'll say is you know, I know that there's uh uh a concern about you know the cost of of um you know the some of the fee structures and things, but but they're I mean this is it goes back to we we can't burden existing residents with new things coming online.

I think that's something we've we've got uh pretty clear message from the from the residents about that.

So appreciate all your work in this.

It's a situation that I don't think anybody wishes we had, right?

Wish we could wave a magic wand and you know, but yeah, but thank you.

Yeah, same here.

And and I I would just wanted to mention that we have a we show a comparison in the in the packet that shows where our fee will land relative to all the other communities that are either in Windy Gap firming or NISP, because that's what uniquely brings us all together is we're kind of on the same supply, and that is the supply that's available.

So um, just for folks that want to look at it, they can see, and we base that on a three-quarter inch uh tap because that's the smallest tap that we provide.

Yep.

All right, council piston.

So tagging onto the client of developers bringing their own water.

So is there any code change that we need to do or uh and is it taken care of?

Yes, that's the Title VII code change that we are doing.

So how uh another question was about the uh allocation percentages.

How how did we come with that uh percentages of 65 15?

Um right.

So for contingency, as I mentioned, that will be a set aside of 10% pretty consistently every time that we do allocations.

And then all of the others, well, we took our prior our priority um uses are the public serving uses, so our capital projects first, and then economic development second, and then the remainder goes towards the residential projects.

So we looked at precisely what was in planning and what we knew was going to need to be delivered and would need allocations for 2026.

And that's those numbers we translated that into the percentages that you see being proposed.

So it's covering what we know that we need for this year.

And then in December, we'll come back to you with our best projections for um allocations for 2027, what our needs will be then.

Yeah, that was my next question of if if any changes need to be made in 26 uh allocation differences, like from 65, maybe we need to move it to more somewhere else on in 27.

So will it need a council approval for that?

So in turn there there are two types of changes.

One is if we want to or find that we need to change an allocation, you know, like 10 um up to 10 acre feet from one category to another that is in the policy that this that staff can do that.

But if we are gonna if we find that we want to come and ask for using additional acre feet in 2026, we would come back to council.

Okay.

And do you see any other uh categories that might pop up other categories that might well we're trying to include you know, all the the non-residential is encompassed in economic development?

Um affordable housing is its own category because that's something that town council could decide.

Hey, if we have a project we want to allocate separately, since we don't have anything, there's nothing for this year.

Um when we come back to you in December, if something is projected to come in 2027, we'd certainly ask for that.

But we're we're pretty confident that we have the the right categories for use because the public projects is pretty broad in terms of it could be a park, it could be a building.

Yeah.

So um so if we are getting auto from Boulder Creek and I read some that it's not it needs more treatment.

So are our treatment plan like do we need to upgrade it or is it enough or how much more we're doing?

So um I'll try not to go down a rabbit hole with this one, but we're we're so we have a water right off of Boulder Creek, and we drilled a horizontal well that was uh drilled twice and not successful, but we're looking to um put in a different type of well and then use that water.

So um I'll try not to go down a rabbit hole with this one, but we're we're so we have a water right off of Boulder Creek and we drilled a horizontal well that was uh drilled twice and not successful, but we're looking to um put in a different type of well and then use that water and one of the things we're looking at is the potential for using that water as um raw water delivered into town for uh outdoor irrigation, and then a portion of it um, and these are some numbers we have to figure out with consultants to specialize water quality consultants to help us figure out a portion of it we want to blend into the Lynn Morgan treatment plant supply, so we can take a portion of it and turn that into potable water and then a portion of it and use it for raw water irrigation.

That's where our biggest demand comes in is outdoor irrigation.

Um and our existing plant, if we blend it, if we can get the right blend, which there's there's a right blend, it's not like one gallon per million gallons.

It's gonna be there's gonna be a number we just don't know it yet.

Um that'll increase our potable supply too.

And the plant is currently uh the peak production we've seen in the last few years was 11 and a half million gallons in any given day, and the plants rated at 16.65 million gallons.

And we're looking at doing we have to replace the membranes, the filters at it now, um, because they're aged out, and when we do that, we'll gain extra capacity as well.

So um, yeah, we think the existing water treatment plant we can leverage and what it's already it's already capable of producing the water we need, but um we can leverage various aspects of that plan and the water supply to kind of grow the water supply, and um we'll certainly be working on that every year over the next five years to try and uh add more water to this portfolio.

So uh for the upgrades, the money needed, is it already allocated in the budget?

Yeah, we have the money.

We haven't gotten into full-blown designs or anything yet, but um the the upgrades and improvements at Lynn Morgan, we can fund that.

Uh especially since we we got away from building that reverse osmosis plant.

Yeah.

Last question is uh can we give any incentives to residents who conserve more?

Like maybe they used X this every month and now they're cut it down by 20%, 25%.

We have quite a few um water conservation programs.

We don't really do like a uh a percentage uh reduction to a water bill or something, but um that it's a great point because that's the other piece of all this is how how do we how do we look at the outdoor irrigation and find a way to deliver more supply to that, but also what can we what more can we do?

I I will add we um we had about a hundred thousand dollars towards turf replacement this year, and we just added another fifty to that from an account where we were able to move the money.

So we want to highly incentivize that too.

So yeah, we've we've got programs and we'll keep working on them because that that I think is uh one of the biggest parts of the equation is how do we reduce the existing demand for outdoor, especially.

I really believe in that.

So if we give incentives to people who have done well in conservation, maybe there'll be more people who'll be adopting that.

Yep.

Thank you.

I'll just clarify that the policy, the water allocation policy is not dependent on the existing whether or not residents conserve, although we want them to.

And over time, potentially as we recalibrate how we're using our water supply, and maybe there will be some impact to future development, but right now they are two separate elements because just imagine every home already has its allocation.

So this is for future.

Okay.

No further questions from me.

All right, thanks.

Um got a a few questions.

Um there's 749 acre feet that are unallocated, and you're metering so 125 acre feet for this year, and then yeah, you're metering it for the next six years, right?

So that um that seven forty-nine will will last uh the six years, right?

And we we manage our growth that way.

So I'll just yes, right now we are at 749 acre feet, and yes, we have uh we've taken one sixth of that and we're applying it to the rest of 2026.

Because our water supply is going to change over time, you know, we may still have you know a similar approach in 2027, but the more we learn about what our options are and continue to find opportunities for purchasing water supply, we may find that we have a different amount at the end of 2027 or in 20, you know, at the end of you know or the beginning of 2028.

So it will change.

We're constantly gonna be recalibrating.

Right.

But that is the approach to with all the efforts that you're making to make our water usage more efficient, conserving water, uh change you know, affecting the infrastructure so that we can uh use more raw water and in the those areas, those are all gonna help this, right?

Yes.

I thought he was gonna have more detail, but yeah.

So um so the building permits and the um the uh timeline from 180 to 90 days.

How much will that affect um builders and will that just force them to be more efficient with their timing or do they usually do it in 90 days or how to that's a great question.

Yes, our builders typically are on a shorter path if they are using their water allocation if they're intending to build, they build.

So this is a timeline that we believe is uh and we did check on our past permits to see you know when were those first uh inspections uh you know asked for and so we we verified with our existing data to see okay if someone's building when is how much time is enough for them to be able to get to that first inspection that for their their um foundation.

So that was something that I looked at you know very closely.

I wanted to make sure we captured that.

But we you know the 180 days you once you have that first um inspection for the foundation, then you do get additional time to keep building.

So you're not building an entire house in three months.

I just want to be clear about that.

It's just getting to that very first um piece of it.

Okay, great.

Thanks.

And so I wanna I wanted to be clear that you know we are affecting the the tap fees, but we are not affecting any of the residents' water rates with anything that we're doing tonight.

Correct.

This doesn't affect the rates at all.

And it's the water dedication fee, the tap fee is staying the same.

Um it's it's that water dedication fee that we're increasing to match the what we're spending on that same water now, the raw water.

Okay, thanks.

And is there an estimate of how many acre feet that we're currently using with the what 12 to 14,000 current homes?

Um Pete could probably answer that.

It's it's probably four to five thousand acre feet.

I don't know.

He's like pretty close.

Okay, four to five thousand feet.

All right.

Thanks.

I'm I'm okay, thank you.

Um so some of my questions have been answered.

Um are we so we're saying that the greatest demand for water comes from outdoor use.

Are we able to incentivize maybe not putting in water thirsty landscaping through this policy?

So because it's costly to repeat replace it.

Can we get ahead of that?

Is this a good place to do that with developers?

We'll probably both answer this.

Um we very soon will be bringing a small-scale landscape ordinance update that will be ensuring that we're not doing allowing um non-essential turf, uh, i.e.

just Kentucky bluegrass to be laid out in any commercial area or tract of of a development um that will be asking developers and builders to do Colorado and sort of our arid climate sensitive plantings versus um the Kentucky bluegrass.

So that's one thing.

We're also doing a more robust update to the landscape ordinance elements and our code up our overall code update.

And while we're doing all that, that does not impact our the way that we allocate water at this point.

So I'm gonna hand that over to Todd for that.

Yeah, I think that's accurate.

Um and I think we should be working on that uh not so much as part of this, because this we kind of we would like to do now, um, or we'll fall behind.

But um, I think we want to keep looking at that.

We want to look at, like I said, more opportunities for delivering raw water supplies throughout the community.

We've got a lot of ideas around that, um, extending certain pipelines and stuff, but um without getting you know down into the weeds on that, I'll just say we're looking at all those things and when you start to deliver more of that raw water, there's certain plants that are less tolerant of it, so that'll have to change too.

So we'll we'll we'll be uh applying this initial uh change that Sarah's talking about, and then we're gonna have to evolve and learn as we go.

But I think that is the goal is to get the get the um the lot less thirsty and the houses get efficient generally over time.

Uh that's absolutely should be part of this, regardless of whether we had it all the water we could ever want or not.

I I think that's my opinion.

Right, because you know, we can see down the road we will have all the water we want, right?

When we're not in a drought.

But um, yeah, I would like to see that is somehow an incentive to maybe not in this policy, but down the road, you know, to sort of get ahead of that turf grass requirement or or I mean it's not required to put turf in, but if we could incentivize more native plants, more um, I think that would be great.

I know there's a grass that grows here natively that barely requires water to stay green through the summer, and you know what would it look like to have lawns that are made of that instead?

So or no lawns at all.

Do we need lawns?

I don't know, I've been thinking about this a lot.

Do we need do I need a front lawn?

I never sit on my front lawn.

But um so at my other question was multifamily versus single family homes.

I know the with a multifamily home, generally the indoor water allocation is the same, but the outdoor use is much less with a multifamily.

Is there incentives to do more of that?

Yeah.

Um so you're right, that's how we do it.

Single family homes, uh, we have the one SFE uh number that takes into account what a typical single family home uses.

But for multifamily, we have that half an SFE for the indoor demand, and then the outdoor demand, they can uh submit a uh landscaping plan that shows lower water use and thereby dedicate less water, which we want them to do, uh, because that obviously expands our our water portfolio.

Um we are right now in the middle of a study um which came out of um the meetings we had with developers about a year and a half ago uh looking at lot sizes and water demand, looking at different types of of uh homes, square footage wise, bedrooms, bathrooms.

Um, and so that's something we're also looking at.

It's it's at the draft stage right now.

We still have to meet go over it, probably make some refinements.

I want to see some changes to it to add different categories that are missing out of it right now, but that's another thing we're looking at right now.

To and if we can we certainly want to incentivize less water use.

That's uh as much as we can.

We don't want to be um you know, uh putting our put tying up our water portfolio unnecessarily.

Yeah, that would be interesting to see how that shifts development.

Um, and then in March, this council repealed the sprinkler dedicated or the sprinkler requirement that was in our code.

Um we know that sprinklers, sprinkled homes, home home fires use only about 10% of the water that uh non-sprinkled home uses.

So I wonder if that could be an incentive um included in the future.

Um just a thought.

But um, so my last question is about current permits.

Um so I'm assuming there are some permits that are out right now.

What happens with those the clocks start tomorrow?

Or um so yeah, we do have I think over well, about 50 permits that are in application right now.

Those permits would be able to that application period would extend the full 180 days that they have if they want to secure a water allocation associated with that permit from the town, then they would need to pay their fee and lie for the dedication, and that um they would do at the building permit issuance.

So those um I don't know, I I don't have the exact number, but that's something that we'll be talking through with the developers.

There's not a ton of them that have them in, but we will walk them through how that will work.

But when they go to get their building permit issued, it will be the 90 days for that first um for them to get to their construction, their evidence of construction.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

Okay, um I want to just first uh say that we're even having this discussion, not because of the drought, although a lot of the comments about the drought apply to all of us in a grander scale.

But what we're really talking about here is having enough water to continue our commitments to basically developments that have already been approved or on the books to uh to get there.

And we're in this position because we were initially, number one, waiting for windy gap water, which was going to be stored in Chimney Hollow.

That is still all true.

However, because of the uranium, which was not detected at the time of build is now a concern and needs to be filtered out.

It's gonna take up to five or six years longer than what we initially had planned for that water to come.

We already own the Windy Gap water, correct?

And so the problem is it comes down out of the mountains, and if we don't have a place to store it, it's gone.

And so the Chimney Hollow Reservoir gives us a place to store it.

The Chimney Hollow Reservoir is not met expectations at build time.

That has to be figured out, and we'll eventually get the water.

We're gonna have another discussion on NISP once we get through this discussion.

So just if anybody's paying attention to what we're talking about, um there's another complex story uh coming up here shortly.

Um we um if we approve this tonight, we're gonna um we are going to increase our water dedication fee from 31,400 to 52,200.

So this is uh 20,000, roughly 20,000 costs.

So when I think of affordable housing, we're trying to do everything to make housing more affordable.

The sprinkler ordinance was to do just that, repealing roughly 10 to whatever $15,000 for sprinklers to draw the price down.

This is gonna immediately not only cost more than that, but that again, which will drive prices up in Erie, which goes against our goals of trying to do everything we can to keep costs down.

Um I think that um this jump doesn't look so bad when you compare it against uh the information that was shared with us in our packets, and I just lost mine, I'm gonna bring it back up here.

Um, where we compare ourselves against the other uh communities.

And before this rate increase, so today, if you build a uh permit, we were like third on the list as far as costs.

I think superior was cheaper, boulder was cheaper, maybe longmont was cheaper.

If we approve this tonight, we basically go into the middle of the pack for the cost of water.

Water is one component of all the costs that we add on to houses.

And so I know when the uh the builders are looking at their costs, they're not just looking at water, they're looking at all the other impact fees.

So we're gonna be doing an impact fee study later this year to figure that out as well, which may add additional costs.

And at some point, the question is is Erie grossly more expensive to build in than other communities, and if that's the case, then why?

Water obviously being one component, but not all the uh the components of that.

If anybody's interested, all this material is online.

Um I probably made the mistake of printing it out.

It is a lot of um information here that was given to us to to study in lots of detail there.

So I just want everybody to know if you want the information we have, it's online, it's available for anybody to come and get uh tonight as we do that.

Um we talked about builders bringing their own water, but if they do that, it's got to work in our plant.

They can't bring like Broomfield, for example.

My understanding is they're part of Chimney Hollow, they can filter out uranium.

We can't use whatever water they're bringing in because we couldn't filter that out.

Is that correct?

I think they're still trying to figure that out.

I th my understanding was that they had a supply that uh Wendy Gap was gonna replace basically that had radiological contamination in it already, so they they have experience with it.

But I think until we start to see the data coming from Chimney Hollow, I don't know that they'll they'll know.

But um we know that we can remove a certain amount, and um, but then there comes a point with uranium where you become a producer of uranium.

Uh so it's a balancing act, and they're they've just now started to fill the Chimney Hollow reservoir with the initial amount of water uh that they needed to put in for testing um to to test out the valves and things like that.

And um, and so we'll start to see some data coming from from that effort, and that'll be the initial stuff probably be the most concentrated because of it uh where it's getting stored near uh where the quarry was, sort of stuff.

Uh where it's getting stored near uh where the quarry was sort of stuff.

Okay.

Um all right, so I really don't see that we have a choice up here.

Um because if we don't do anything, I mean we're gonna sell out of water like this year or next year, and then we're gonna have three or four years where building permits would stop.

As the mayor pro Tem indicated, our goal is to not stop the growth because there are many other components to our growth, economic development being one of them that we just can't slam on the brakes and uh and be done.

So this is to allocate it over time to keep a steady pace going until Chiminy Hollow comes online and we can actually utilize that water.

Is that correct?

Yeah, that's right.

And and as I mentioned earlier, we're we're gonna be pursuing every opportunity to to add more water to our water uh supply portfolio in that same time.

And so um we hope that we can even increase those numbers each year as we add more water supply and and then folks go out and find water too and bring it to the table.

All right.

Thanks for the clarifications.

Um two ordinances and two resolutions.

Uh does it matter the order these are read in the ordinances should likely go first before the resolution, but beyond that it does not matter.

Okay.

Then I'll see if there's a motion to approve ordinance uh twenty-four twenty-six amending uh title eight chapter one.

So move?

Second.

Any further discussion?

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

All opposed say no.

Next one is um Do I have a motion to approve ordinance twenty-five twenty-six amending title nine chapter one?

So move.

Second.

Any further discussion?

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

All opposed, say no.

All right.

The next one is resolution twenty-six one hundred three, a resolution of the town council of town at Erie approving and adopt the town at Erie water allocation policy.

Do I have a motion to approve resolution twenty-six one hundred three?

So I'll move.

Oh second.

So move, second over here.

Any further discussion?

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

All opposed say no.

And the last one is resolution twenty-six one hundred four, the fee schedule to have a motion to approve uh resolution twenty-six one hundred four.

So move.

Any further discussion?

All in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

All opposed, say no.

Motion carries.

All right.

We've been going at it for almost three hours here.

I'm gonna just uh call for a five-minute break.

We'll let everybody get resettled and then we'll start the um last item on the agenda, uh, which is to discuss uh NIST.

I'm going to reconvene the meeting and we're going to get going with our last agenda item tonight, which is twenty twenty-six two fifty-nine, a resolution of the town council, the town area approving the twenty second interim agreement between Northern Colorado Water Conservancy District through the Northern Integrated Supply Project, Water Activity Enterprise in the town of Erie, acting by and through its Erie Water Activity Enterprise.

Thanks, Mayor.

Again, Todd Fessen and Utilities Director.

We have Sarah Hancock, our finance director here, Pete Johnson and Andrea Carroll, your water councils.

And uh Brad Wynne, uh the general manager of Northern is here and would like to give some brief public comments.

All right, I think that'd be helpful.

And by the way, we've been having these discussions in executive session, and at our last executive session on this topic, I asked why we're having it in exec session, and um the consensus of the council was we're gonna bring this into public, and that's exactly what we're doing here tonight.

Welcome.

Welcome.

So thank you.

Thank you, uh Mayor Moore and Council members.

Uh my name's Brad Wind.

I'm general manager of Northern Water, as you know, Northern Water is a sponsor for the integrated supply project.

Uh first and foremost, I want to thank you for your consideration of this interim agreement this evening.

Um it's been a long haul.

We've been at this for a lot of years, 20 plus years advancing this project.

There's been a lot of great investment in this project by Erie and by other communities to the point where we're near ready to go.

Um this interim agreement really gets us to the final design and many aspects of the project over the course of the last few months, as you might have read in the paper and heard from council and others that there's been a reconsideration by some of the participants that perhaps NISP isn't part of their future.

So we've gone from 15 participants uh down to nine.

That does include Erie.

Perhaps I'm being a bit optimistic, but it does include Erie.

Um and to the point where with that reduction in the number of participants, likewise has been the reduction of the amount of yield in which the participants need from the project.

So we've gone from roughly a 40,000 acre foot project down to roughly 20,000, a little shy of 20,000 acre feet per year of firm annual yield.

And um, with that, again, I just wanted to say hello.

I want to thank you for your consideration this evening and look forward to the discussion.

All right.

Thank you for coming out.

Okay.

We'll get started.

Um since we're having this discussion uh in the public, and it's been probably a year or so before we've we've done that.

I figured I'd run through just a little bit of the history of the project.

You heard Brad just talk a bit about it.

Um this is what our agenda is going to look like.

Uh I plan to get through it fairly quick.

Um so with that, um, just to locate this for for the residents who might be watching from home or from here.

Um the the NISP project has been intended to be a two reservoir project.

Glade Reservoir, uh, a bigger one, about no a bit northwest of Fort Collins, um, requires the realignment of Highway 287 through that valley where that reservoir would be.

Um, and then over to the east, which is a bit northeast of uh Greeley is the Gaelton Reservoir.

Um Galeton is a different water source.

That water would be coming from South Platte, um, would likely re require uh treatment at is uh before it's put into the reservoir for water quality reasons because it's South Platte.

Um it also includes a large uh delivery pipeline and a number of other pipelines as well and diversions to get the water into Glade and Gaeleton.

Um and then this pipeline, so though you see this pipe coming from Glade and extending down this this pipe ends up near Meade.

So for Erie and uh Lafayette, who we've been partnered with, we would need to extend that line.

Um that's something we'll talk about briefly that Northern's also looking at, but um that's just the gist of the project, so folks know.

Um some history with this project.

Uh this iteration, as you know, this is a 20-second interim agreement we're considering.

So this has been sorry, 23 years.

Um the water rights go back 40 years when the rights were required for for this project.

Uh the project has gone through many challenges throughout the years.

Um local, federal, uh, state permitting, water quality permitting, army corps permitting.

Um there have had to been changes to state legislation.

The project got sued uh by an environmental group.

Um so a lot it's been a long haul and a lot of challenges along the way.

Um you heard Brad talk about some of the more recent challenges with the project participants uh reducing and the project shrinking.

Um of course the the cost of the project has has gone up over time as well.

Um Galton, that second reservoir northeast of Greeley, uh, may or may not be part of the project for the long term.

Um so that we'll see in the future whether it will be or not.

But that that one while it has lower water quality, it's also the reusable water, so that water we can use again and again.

So I think that will still be on the menu, but whether or not folks can afford it, we'll see.

But it's going to be a significant part of the water supply, and the cost is significant.

The conveyance pipeline about a probably two years ago now, we had our last estimate on that pipe, and it was 150 million.

So we would be splitting that cost with Lafayette.

That's why I'm saying roughly 100 million, because it generally things have gone up over time.

But that's one of the questions that we've been uh asking Northern to look into, and they are looking into is could we take our delivery of our water through some of the existing infrastructure?

And there's various ways possibly to do that, but that would that would take out a significant part of the cost of the project for us and for Lafayette.

Um as I mentioned, uh Galton, now that it's a South Platte water, it would require reverse osmosis treatment, and that's not cheap.

Um and there's OM cost too.

So the um the project is as it seems to mean now is somewhere between two and a half, two to three million dollars annual OM cost, depending on how that all shakes out.

Um for comparison, the Lynn R.

Morgan water treatment facility is about two and a half million, and that includes the staff and the chemicals and the electricity and everything.

Um the as I mentioned, it could impact it would will impact in some way the water dedication fee and time.

Um it's a potential it and we can talk a little bit about this later that if we can't cover the costs of the annual debt service over time, that that could affect uh utility bills.

Obviously, our goal is to avoid that um and have growth pay for growth.

Um and we're looking and we're going to this is an interim agreement, so um what that is just getting us at certain milestones.

And typically it's been an annual interim agreement, the one you're considering tonight.

Um it was stalled while we tried to work through some of the issues that came up, and um, and now we're trying to put stuff back into a new interim agreement that will get through roughly the next six months or so to the end of the year.

We'll be seeing a new um budget request for 2027.

So the work that's occurring now last till the end of the year, maybe a little bit past that.

Um, and then in 2027 will be a bigger cost for advancing the project, some of the some of the work that needs to start happening.

Um so we always like to present options.

Um wouldn't be right for us to say here's your choice because that's not our role.

But um we uh we are recommending to uh approve the 20 second interim agreement.

There's a lot of things I think we can still figure out and understand between now and the end of the year that will help us, uh it being a significant part of our future water supply.

Um is uh is why we're saying that and also to help us kind of understand the costs and and where we might end up as a refine the designs better and get some of these other project uncertainties figured out that for what it's worth there the last several months been you know changes that we would learn of about every month, things that were evolving with the project.

So it's been really hard for us to nail things down and say, well, this is exactly what it looks like.

I I think it's getting close to that point to where things are getting pretty certain about what it's gonna look like.

Um, the other option could be to further reduce participation.

We reduced participation from 6,500 acre feet to 4,500 acre feet um in the last month or so, and uh Firestone uh stepped out of the project at that same time.

So what happened was we reduced our participation and Firestone left and um and our cost went up because our percentage of the project went up.

We will continue, as I mentioned in the uh prior uh presentation to look at different supplies, um look at opportunities to get more raw water through town.

That's what I'm mentioning there when I say dual systems obtaining more CBT as we've been doing.

Um you know, we wouldn't suggest if you were to reduce it, you reduce to something lower than 2,000 acre feet, and we're not recommending that either.

But um that's the you get down into some lower levels if you want to keep it under $2 million.

I think at around 3,000 acre feet, you'd be or 3,000 or 3,500 acre feet you'd be about $2 million for for this interim agreement.

Um again, that's not what we're recommending, but it is an option.

The um existing current range for participants in the project are a hundred uh acre feet to 3300 acre feet, and 3300 acre feet is the is the next one below us, and that's left-hand water.

Um and then of course there's there's always the option to choose to leave the project.

Others have um that means less growth, less control over you know Erie's future when it comes to water supply um and less general flexibility on the things that we can we can um support in the future, uh, but it's also the lowest cost risk.

So there's that.

Um if we did that, we would have to focus pretty much solely on alternative supplies and bolstering up our water supply and in some other way because it would be such a big deduction out of our um portfolio.

So that was a fairly fast blast through a project that's been going on for 23 years.

But um, we have been up here every year presenting this project for that same amount of time, and we've just recently been having to have some hard discussions and and come to conclusions.

So um with that, I think I'll open it up for any questions you might have for me or Sarah or or water council.

Okay, thanks.

Um I think I'm gonna start this one.

Um so there's a a long history um in Erie.

Uh 2008 when we signed on, and just I think there's a little irony that I was sitting in this same chair in 2008 when we signed on.

And in that time, it appeared to be um a good project, uh financially feasible.

Um 50 participants, I think is what um was just mentioned tonight at the beginning of the project.

15, yeah, 15 um big participants that have left.

And so when you look at that, um you have to ask, okay, hold on.

Is this project really feasible or has the cost gotten to the point where actually purchasing the water to store there and actually use for our future growth?

Is it a good financial decision?

And this is where I struggle.

You know, there's this constant narrative that plays in my mind about how do we make the right long-term decisions for the good of the many?

And then there's the business part of my brain that is looking at hey, there may be something good good for the many.

Erie growing, giving them places for people to live and to call home and to raise their families.

But then it puts a burden on everybody else in Erie.

Um, so in exec session, um, you know, there's been just vague mentions of what would happen to our water bills, all of us that are already here.

And you know, I've heard comments made, they could double, it could be less than that.

And I think, you know, if this water is only for growth, why would we sign up for it if it's going to put the burden on those already here to pay for the growth?

So I think that's my first question, right?

And under your in your professional judgment, you know, the costs have have ballooned on this particular project for the Glade Reservoir from what we know at the moment.

So, how do you see that playing out into our water bills going forward?

Well, I'm not the finance director, so I'm gonna ask Sarah to answer that, but I will say um other aspects of this project that I should have mentioned, and maybe I didn't was that um you know it does add resiliency for the town.

It does it is a supply that's not off the Colorado River, which we know is very uncertain um these days, and so it diversifies the town's water supply.

Um so it could have a it could have an impact.

But it the the cost is definitely something that is uh has has gone up over time.

And um as far as like how that might affect water bills.

I know uh Sarah's uh team has been looking at some of those things, so I'm gonna let her try and uh cover that up a little.

Yeah, of course.

In case I haven't said it yet, Sarah Hancock, uh finance director.

Um so as you imagine, this this is quite complex, and um unfortunately we are dealing with some uncertain and uh incomplete data at this point.

So that's that's where I'm at a little bit of a disadvantage and providing you clear direction on where that that goes.

Um that said, I I think that what's important about where we're at in a couple different processes really tells us where we would end up with with the answer to that question.

Um, we're currently in the middle of the budget process, at least collecting budget requests from the departments.

Part of that um is Todd's team looking at their capital improvement fund and reallocating some of the projects and how we move forward with some of our major capital projects now that the water treatment plant is no longer on the um on the docket.

Why that's important is that because we're doing that at the same time as we're doing a rate refresh, which we we've um you know gotten some feedback from council that having um our rates reviewed a little earlier than we intended to uh is is a positive thing.

So we have that going on at the exact same time.

So we also have Rafa Telez, our consultant who has um been doing our rate studies for quite some time, they are the best in the business.

They're also looking at all of these factors and going to be collecting information from us about that reprioritization and where that frees up funding and what that looks like um for rates and for feats.

So all those things are happening at the same time.

Um, and it's unfortunately timed with us having to make a decision as a town about this in the agreement.

So um what I will say is that we will know more about the direct impact of rates once we have better numbers about what our prioritizations are through the end of the year, uh, what the numbers actually shake out from this design phase that that NISP is about to enter into and from the the rate refresh that we're doing with Rafatellus.

Um so I I wouldn't say it's a non-answer, but it's it's a it's a contextual importance of of us just not quite knowing the answer to that yet, um, because of where we are at in our processes.

And yet we're being asked to approve three million more dollars for NISP.

Um two months from now, three months from now, you may come back and go, oh, the water bills are gonna triple.

Maybe not, but double.

You know, I think that's the that's the dilemma I feel.

And then I and then I think about the big participants that have bailed.

You know, whether that is um I think you said Greeley bailed in our last discussion.

No, um, it was Fort Collins Level and water district.

That was for Collins Loveland, but I think there was another one.

Who's the six that have left Andrea might be able to answer that?

Sure.

Um Andrea Carroll water water council.

So that would be um Eton, Evans, Firestone, Fort Collins Loveland Water District, Morgan County uh quality water district and severance.

And one factor in case it's helpful on your point about current residents paying for future growth, which is true.

The timing now is such that final design for GLAD, 99% design should be done this year, and then construction should be starting next year.

So at least that's a time frame that we've been advised about.

So I guess with respect to how long that duration out is of folks paying to start seeing the benefits, hopefully.

And then operational by 2031, I believe is the well, beginning to fill, and then I guess there's a question about how long filling would take too, depending on hydrology at the time.

But it's just a different uh time frame than the last 23 years, as you know, having gotten through litigation and permitting and all of these milestones that it is um if it moves forward, it's rubber hits the road time.

Right, rubber hits the road, but then there's additional costs that we we're not privy to at the moment, but nobody has indicated that our water bills wouldn't go up if we do this.

And and I think that plays into my mind because you know, we talk about Erie at whatever 85, 90,000 people.

Could Yeah be okay at 65,000 people, or whatever um Chiminy Hollow and CBT, you know, uh take us to.

And I asked uh rhetorically, because I know we don't have the answer at this moment, but there's definitely a feeling that says um why should we put these additional costs on if the only reason to do it is to grow?

And so that's the dilemma that I face tonight as I'm trying to you know sort this out in my own brain on whether we move forward or not.

Some have said if the we vote no tonight, that it'll fail, the whole project will fail.

Which is a business person.

I doubt that.

I think what would happen is there would be a more um a bigger reckoning or giving us all more time to get more information so we really understand what we're what we're um signing up for.

Um or maybe it does go away completely, and we do need to look for other water sources.

Um I think these are the dilemma points.

But if we move move forward, without a doubt, we will raise water rates to some degree in Erie.

That is what I've been in hearing.

We just don't know how much.

So I think that's where I'm at, at least at the moment.

All right.

Go ahead, Council Member Bear.

Thank you.

Um is that is that true, a true statement?

We'll definitely raise water rates.

It's it's uh this is a question, right?

So it's depends on a bunch of factors.

If we don't have water to sell, um, then somehow that has to be paid the debt service, right?

If we're in the project and we don't have water to sell, but we don't have water to sell if we don't have NISP.

And unfortunately, we don't have Chimney Hollow to sell in the meantime.

So you could probably do things like defer the first year's um first five years payments, and um, and you could you could reduce the the size of the how do I say the participation and get some of that more under control, but there's no way like we could sit here and say, no, it's not gonna go up, or it's absolutely gonna go up, or by how much.

Um that's the tough thing, and we're still trying to figure out the whole water supply at the same time.

So um I I have said before, if we can't pay the debt payment, then it would have to go on water pills.

And so that's the big question is can we afford the debt payment um and then keep it so that growth pays for growth, and there's a lot of different ways to structure that, but maybe Sarah could fill out that a little bit more.

Yeah.

So I think some important context too is that the previous rate study, there was going to be a pretty significant increase to rates.

Um, and when in speaking with our consultant, the it was it was a little bit too much considering the uncertainty at the time with with NISP.

Um, so we actually did not include that in our um in our rates.

So one factor of this is that now we're going to be folding in NISP into it.

Um a second piece of it is um myself and our CIP analyst Kristen Um Palmery, her and I have been running scenarios of the water fund.

Um, and we we see it being quite sustainable with the payment structure and the structures that we've been provided from Northern kind of understanding those numbers, but those numbers are changing all the time.

Um, so that is where we really do need some of these concrete cost informations to really answer that question fully.

Um, because with that at play, um, depending on what that debt payment even is, that tells us whether or not it does raise rates or what the sustainability of it is for the town.

Um and then in addition to that, uh, we're also looking at this reprioritization of quite a few uh projects within the water fund in order to readjust to you know, allocate or um acquiring more water, uh, expanding treatment, uh, capacity in different areas.

And so it's it's it's possible, um, but we can't say anything definitively until we know the true debt service costs that NISP would um put into the forecast that that Kristin and I are projecting out.

Um so yes, it's it's it's a possibility.

Okay.

Um we just don't know to what extent.

And so and how much money have we paid into NISP over the last two decades?

29.1 million dollars.

Okay.

Um so I guess I understand your recommendation to move forward.

Um based on what you just said, because we don't have the numbers, it's a lot of money to walk away from 30 million dollars.

And just have nothing.

We couldn't sell NISP, right?

We couldn't sell our no.

Um we would we would have to divest our shares, and there and there's so many shares because of all the folks that have divested out of the project.

There's there's more shares that you can't really sell shares right now.

Okay.

Um so we we talked about water bills.

Um, what are alternatives to NISP?

Other than buying CBT, the you talked about the well at Bulner Creek earlier.

Um yeah, there's so it there's no good alternative to NISP that's kind of a one size fits all.

Um the there are other water supply projects out there.

Some of them the water quality is low, so it puts us back in that boat of needing to build a RO plant.

There are uh water districts around that we could potentially partner with that complic that could complicate our water rights um as well.

Uh, because we control the water we use on a day-to-day basis.

We can decide we're using reusable water today, so we're gonna store it in our reservoir.

Tomorrow we're calling on CBT, so we're not gonna we don't need to store that, we'll let it go.

When we don't have control of the water rights, it can kind of throw a little bit of a monkey wrench.

But this is this is another thing we're trying to figure out right now and expanding our like I mentioned earlier, expanding our raw water supplies, um, getting away from turf.

Uh there's there's many things we'll have to figure out.

Um, but there is no alternative project, and you know, the CBT water is there's only so much, and it isn't cheap either.

But um that that's the dilemma.

We in many ways we know half the information.

We feel like we need to know to make a really good decision.

Yeah, and so it's tough though, because you the alternative is um you keep spending money for something that might become too expensive for you in the long run, or um, or you know, I think it'll move forward, but um, but that's kind of the dilemma we're in.

Uh, is so much has changed in the last five years, especially the last year or two, that we're still trying to wrap our arms around how to grapple with all that and how to um come up with an alternative plan that we can put some numbers to.

Um so when we talk about growth, that includes a second ECC campus.

Um kind of you know, park improvements, like that's included in growth, correct?

So serving current residents.

We're talking about economic development.

Um we want a grocery store in town.

We want you know plans for I-25 gateway um for amenities up there too.

Is that included in these projections of what we would use for for NISP water?

Yeah, it is.

Yep.

Those are those are some of the things that we've modeled, and Pete could probably speak better to that than me because he's he's looked at that model more times than me, but those are some of the things we've looked at.

Okay, yeah, I think conceptually you're looking at it appropriately that essentially some if not the full 4500 uh acre foot participation where Erie currently is some amount of that, if not the full amount, is going to be necessary to provide for the you know the long-term future phases of growth.

What uh you saw Sarah Normella uh put out the map with the um what she called the planned growth area.

So um some of that growth and development certainly will not be possible without NISP, and as Todd said, and I agree, there's no other silver bullet alternative project out there that's uh you know plug-in-play source of water of the same scope.

So what happens if Erie walks away from NISP?

What happens for NISP?

It's uncertain at this point, but uh right now as you look at this agreement it has on the very last page is exhibit B, which is the allocation of the different percentage interest to the the participants that are left in the project, then the nine participants, and you're used at 23% participant.

So in the short term, I'm sure Northern will have to do some scrambling with how they keep the project moving forward with a budget that could be reduced by 23%, at least in this interim period.

Uh, and then there's certainly the longer term implications of just how that affects the viability of the project overall.

So it will it would have a significant effect on uh other participant interests and just the the pursuit of the project overall, but I I can't predict the the future beyond that.

You can't um so you mentioned the Lafayette is uh we've been in partnership with them with this conveyance pipeline.

Um has there been communication?

What does that look like?

And I mean, you know, would they be surprised if we pulled out or would we be surprised if they pulled out?

Um I would be surprised if they pulled out.

I don't know if they would be surprised if we did or not.

Um I do know that it would affect them in the sense that they're hoping to can to partner with us on a conveyance pipe.

Um I've had conversations with some of my peers at different at specifically in Lafayette about the idea of partnering up, they're looking to build a treatment plant right now and are finding it hard to find a location for the treatment plant, as well as the cost of it is climbing like everything has been.

And so um, but that's just a a conversation over lunch.

We haven't been able to take that further down the road yet, because that was just a something we talked about in the last several months.

And previous to that, a left hand was a partner with us in the conveyance pipe, and they chose to go a different route.

But with all the changes that have happened on the project with different participants divesting or changing their amount, um it's possible that we could try and get other partners together too, because that's I think one way you can start to make the numbers look a whole lot better is if everybody's not building their own separate thing.

But that again is another thing that takes time for us to kind of sort through.

Um, I guess I'll just share my thoughts um as well.

And I just think that 30 million dollars is a lot to walk away from two decades.

Um for me, if it was certain that you know, water bills for current residents were gonna double or triple if we stay in, I think that would be compelling for us to walk away.

Um otherwise, I feel like you know sort of walking away from water in order to manage growth is a is dangerous, and I am not I don't think that that's good um a good idea.

I don't think it's good leadership, and so I would say we should probably take staff recommendation and continue where we're at with this.

Um and perhaps next year we'll know if it's how it's going to affect water bills, or if it will affect water bills, or if there are other um financial tools we can utilize um to defer the cost.

Um and I think that it would be important, you know, to to walk into that with eyes wide open.

Um but for now we there's there's some we don't know, we just don't know if it's gonna affect water bills or how um and it's water we've been counting on for at least two decades, so um you know, in the future, so I it it makes me nervous to think about walking away from a big water project without an alternative now.

If the if NISP members come together and they're like, you know what, we're gonna do something different, let's work together over here.

I think that could you know be fine.

But um, I also have concerns about possibly sinking the whole project by walking away.

Um that doesn't seem right either.

That would be impactful for a lot of different communities.

So um I feel like we should stay the course until we have more answers about how it will definitely affect um our residents.

And I don't know, that's just that's that's where I'm at.

I I just want to mention one thing too, that the costs next year will go up significantly because they'll keep getting into the big construction stuff that needs to start to happen if it's gonna move forward.

And at that juncture, I think you will definitely have to make a decision on are we in, are we out, or are we in for a percentage or something?

Because it's gonna go up several fold in terms of annual cost at that point, because then we're moving from design to construction.

And at that point, do we just allocate or do we use financial tools to how do we do we issue COPs?

So we actually have um yearly payments towards this modeled in our financial forecasts.

Um we have it modeled at the 4500.

We'd initially modeled it at the original 6500.

Um that was not sustainable.

That was part of why we had, you know, recommended coming down a little bit.

Um so uh it is in there.

We can see that the 4500 is sustainable for a certain amount of time, but again, the cost that we've been provided for that yearly payment um is not been certain.

So if that were to go up significantly from what we've been previously provided from Northern, um, if it were to decrease, that's where we're gonna see the impact.

So I think that's where Todd's kind of getting at that it's helpful for us to have those real numbers so that we can actually you know provide it is our forecast right now looking exactly how we would expect it to.

That's how they're it's gonna impact rates and fees, um, or is it you know astronomically much larger, and then we need to come and ask counsel for a decision about the sustainability of our our fund being able to make those payments to his point.

Um, because it would be debt service, we'd be paying to the debt service to through northern, correct?

Because we're not actually taking out the debt, we'd be paying them as like a conduit pass through.

It's uh pool financing, that's what the same thing we did on Wendy Gap.

Sorry.

Yeah.

So it sounds like we need some certainty from Northern and No surprises.

Okay, thanks.

All right, other comments?

So, yeah, I guess my concern is we're 23 years in and we still don't know how it's gonna affect our rates, right?

And when I hear that we're cutting the project from you know 40,000 acre feet to 20,000 acre feet, I don't see the infrastructure going away by half, right?

So the cost is going to go up by go up just due to that fact, and the cost were gonna go up anyway.

Um that that's very concerning.

So do we have a when was the decision to you know go from 40,000 acre feet to 20,000 acre feet?

That was after we already knew the costs were going up, correct?

That that change came about, and then Andrew you can fill this out a little bit as um some of the participants started to uh back out of the project.

So at that point they had it had gone down to around 20,000 acre feet of participation, so there was no reason to build a 40,000 acre foot project.

I don't know, Andrea, do you want to just to elaborate on that?

Um in the last month or two is when we started really talking about the 20,000 acre foot amount uh because of the divestments and reductions.

And the people started dropping out before that because the costs were going up significantly, right?

So I I see that as a double whammy on on the cost, right?

First we had unexpected costs that drove some folks out of the project, and because those folks left the project, the cost went up.

So I can't look, you know, I really can't look our residents in the face and say, I I agreed to you know increase your rate so that we can build more houses.

I know it's it's not as simple as that, but that's how folks see it, and that's how I would see it.

You know, I would have that same question if I wasn't sitting here.

Well, why would you decide to do that?

So that those are my concerns.

And kind of as simple as I can put it.

Other thoughts?

Go ahead.

So a couple of questions.

First thing is uh we have alternate sources, right?

And how are the prices looking compared to NISP?

Sorry, acre food.

You said do we have alternate sources like the ones that we are already looking at?

Do we did we do any comparison between what is the price that we pay or what is the price for NIST?

Um yeah, okay.

I understand.

Um there's no there's no alternate sources we know of that are um of the same water quality as NISP.

Um the alternate prices for CBT right now, CBT is less than um then the cost of NISP.

But there's only so much CBT, and if NISP goes away, then there's gonna be even more competition for CBT.

So you see what that'll do to that price.

Um but we are currently exploring diff different options.

Um it's just there's no there's no other 4500 acre foot source that we can call on.

That's um not uh as we know right now, not um to South Platte kind of quality of water.

Yeah, so my thoughts on this one is um water is gold and it's just not for future housing, it's resiliency.

We could go into droughts or climate changes could affect the I feel like we should be invested.

And people elect us to make hard decisions.

Sometimes we don't have all the information looking into future.

Or you know, guess what it could be.

But with what we have so far, I think uh we make decisions, which is also considering there could be a price hike on uh the utilities for water, but we don't know how much it is.

It it's it's not like three times that we know as of now.

It could be less, but staying invested in resources like water, these are not something you can make up or have alternate sources.

So I feel like we should stay invested.

And when is the last that we can like can we do it in 26 and re-evaluate our position in 27?

Yes.

Okay.

I think it's a short term plus a long long-term combined into one solution of staying in there.

And that participation question about budget is I think you answered it, but um do we have enough to do the debt payment?

So I'm sorry, just making sure I'm gonna answer the question.

You're asking, do we have enough in the budget and the forecast to sustain it?

Um it's a yes and um we can see I I forecast usually at about eight to ten years.

Um it is sustainable for a certain amount of time based on the payment schedule that we've been provided.

But at some point we do start to draw down our fund balance rather than sustaining it, which isn't a bad thing in an enterprise fund.

We want to be spending the money to keep the rates down for residents, right?

But it will, if it's continues to go down, at some point we do have to consider the impacts, and we also have to reallocate and and reprioritize projects so that could shift that forecast.

Um so yes, we we are forecasting with the previous numbers that we've gotten from Northern, and we can see that it would work.

Um, but we would have to continue to watch it and see how that would work in the long term.

And if those prices change, that's where I was kind of you know trying to explain to council member Baer, you know, that it's it's a it's a probable thing that could happen, but it's just going to be very dependent on those those numbers from Northern.

So uh are there any alternatives where with some modeling, can we say these prices can be kept at a little more hike?

We can we can reprioritize and look at the the CIP and those large projects to see which ones could be you know shifted.

I would really rely on Todd and his team to help figure out what things are really related more to like the current infrastructure versus growth related, because we do have to parse that out whenever we look at rates.

Um but I think at this time um it's it's pretty clear what we have moving forward.

I I just don't know that there would be anything that we would be able to pull back other than what we already have, which is the water treatment plan, which was significant.

Um there are other options to look at debt, you know, for certain types of projects, but again, we have to make those debt payments based on the fact that they would be um uh based on revenue bonds, so they would be reliant on us in you know collecting those funds, which ultimately can impact rates.

Yeah, so I was going at uh some creative way or innovative way of uh still keeping the rates low.

Yes, and be invested in this because uh tomorrow, if you want it, you won't have it or you won't get it.

And uh, even as of now, we are struggling to find alternate sources.

If there was something we could have uh latched to it, and I I find the resiliency part even more um compelling to be involved in this project, and that's where I stand option one.

Thank you.

I'll also just add to that Rafa Tellis.

Um, you know, they're very good at modeling different scenarios for us too.

So we might have more to look at with that um once we have information from them, but they're in the exploration process right now.

We've just given them all the data to look at.

So the data that we have for them to look at.

Yeah.

Thank you.

May I pretend?

Yep, thank you.

Um it's late, so I'm gonna try to keep this as short as possible.

Um uh let me start out with this question.

So a second, because guilt and that water has to be treated.

Uh so I know when we mothball the uh our our treatment plan expansion that that was planned to be an RO plant, right?

So um I guess my question is uh I know it's it's like pick your poison because it's extremely expensive to build an RO plant, but if we were to partner or whatever with another municipality or something like that to get an economy of scale to get an RO plant, would that open up our possibilities of other water sources?

Um we we could explore the idea of of maybe partnering up with some of our uh close neighbors to treat the water from Boulder Creek.

That would be an RO plant, and we already know what that costs and that it involves deep injection wells and all this stuff.

Um but it's it's uh it's an option we could look at.

We could talk with our neighbors and see if anyone has any interest.

That thing is then we'd be sharing our water supply with them too, though, because they don't have a supply to bring to that plant unless it was NISP.

And if we're well if we're not in NISP, I don't know if there is an ISP.

Um yeah, just throwing that out there because I uh I uh so I I think most of my questions have been answered, but um j just a couple things and I w uh want us to be conscious of there's only six of us here tonight, so I don't know which way this is going, but like d depending on how this votes is uh with uh council member O'Connor here uh um uh uh be curious how this breaks down, but um uh because that potentially could be important.

Um uh I I agree with your the the yeah, the other option is to think, you know, do we you know do we cut back growth and and things like that?

The I think what the public needs to understand is that when we talk about things like um uh Erie Gateway or um you know, even town center, uh those are projects that um are the developers that are getting into that are you know they have a uh you don't get commercial to come in to service what we already have here for I mean we we did grow like crazy crazy over the last few years, but at the same time um you get you know a a a big market retailer come in and they're wanting uh they're they don't care that we're 40,000 or 45,000.

They want us to get up to those higher numbers.

Is sixty-five thousand enough?

It it might be.

I I don't know and can't answer for that.

But um those are the uh the that's what we have to balance out because you can't you can't have both.

You can't say we don't have enough commercial here, we don't have enough primary employment and say we have too much housing here.

And I I I hear this from a lot of residents and and I realize people don't like growth.

Um and so that's very important this decision at the same time uh I I totally agree with the mayor's point that it at what point does that number get to a point where uh it's it's just cost prohibitive to do this, and um I I think my hesitancy in going forward with this because um yeah, we're we're in for 30 million dollars.

Does that mean we throw three million more at this?

That that's um and understanding that we could throw in that three million dollars and then come back, we have these increased cost next year and um and then we're right back to where well gee, maybe maybe we need to when the rubber hits road and we're like, well, we well, we don't want to join in.

And I can't I can't answer for that.

Um so I I'm really kind of torn on this right now, but um I'm not sure if we're split 50-50 here, and I I don't want to kill this if counselor o'connor is is uh not here to vote on this, but um uh I I you know I my uh just as a general overall thing for water, um I I mean I I think we we need to start thinking outside the box because when uh as we talked about many times when NISP started out, it was coming out of the mouth of the pooter, you weren't gonna have to do that much treatment with it.

And then with it's nobody's fault, but with all the the delays and lawsuits and everything that happened with it, um uh, you know, it moved it down to where okay now you gotta treat the water more.

Um uh and and those costs kept increasing and um and now we've lost participants, um, which increases everybody's cost.

Um at the same time, ideally, I think these reservoirs should be built.

I mean, I uh you know, this is a uh water is a huge issue, not only for our state, but you know, just about every other state in the nation.

Um, but you know, again, it's at what cost and and does this make sense to for us to uh continue to participate in.

Um and uh it it's hard to vote one way or another on this when when we don't have those projections, and and that's that's the problem, but yeah.

Okay, consumer hope.

Thank you.

Um taking a step back to the presentation, uh on the right recent development slide, recent developments.

Um the 89 85 to 95,000 dollars per acre foot.

Uh that's the projected cost all in at the end of it, right?

That's the capital cost before financing.

Okay, and financing will double it.

Okay.

I didn't catch that.

That's roughly actually roughly, yeah.

Um, okay, in today's numbers, CBT is currently a little below that, but in the last four years, it's also been above that.

And so and those shares will undoubtedly escalate um along with ours, with along with NISPs, right?

So um it, you know, I have felt like this would be during good money after bad, but at the same time, you know, when there's no alternative, you know, uh honestly, I get concerned I get concerned about what water will get out of CBT sometimes.

You know, we've got seven states fighting for that water.

What if we come up with a scroll down to that stick?

And then it's not just our growth, then it's today's residents as well.

Um and that could very very easily happen happen.

Um we we've we've been through kind of the the hardest part, the design, the lawsuits, and and now they're ready to build construction.

Um the only alternative really on the front range.

Um this is a monumental decision, and I think uh giving it giving us more time to come up with um some scenarios that the public perhaps weigh in.

This is the first day hearing about it.

Um because what what else is it gonna be impact besides growth?

No commercial say goodbye to a grocery.

I don't know.

Um so I I think we need to not make a knee-jerk reaction right now and continue to look at it for another, you know, at least another year of of the money and of the contributions, and then well, once we know what the the constructions are underway and what those numbers are looking like, then make a decision and uh appreciate Mayor Pro Tems uh bringing in uh council member member member O'Connor.

Uh he's not here to weigh in, so um I think we ought to take the the recommendation of the biggest experts in that room and and and stay in it for now.

Yeah, and I'll mention uh I'm hearing new ideas um to um by Mayor Proton's uh point about thinking outside the box.

I'm hearing new ideas like I heard a new one today about water supplies, and last week I heard a new idea that I hadn't never contemplated before.

So um, you know, we it we're kind of getting to the bottom of some of these things with we hope to bring better information and we I totally understand the throwing good money after bad.

Um it's just we're we're still in the in the fact-finding mode because so much has changed in the last few months, and I'm literally not kidding.

I heard something today that I've never heard before and went uh maybe that's a thing, maybe that works.

So we're gonna regardless of how this happens, we're gonna be looking at alternatives at the same time.

All right, I'm gonna ask a clarifying question on the slide that uh was brought up here.

So CBT today, what we paid for that set the fee that we just raised to 20,000, what is that number?

It um currently for us it's been ranging from like 58 to 62, I think.

Um as uh council member Hoback pointed out, there's times when it's been up much higher than that.

That's maybe we got some um motivated by uh sellers.

I don't know, but that's what that's the range, and that's how we set our fee.

Right.

So no matter how we look at this, um $65,000 per acre of feet.

What NISP is estimated to cost is 85 to 95, plus we have to finance it, which will double it, which will take it to 180.

And we only need this water for growth.

And we know that there are likely other sources, we just have to have time to track those down.

That's why my business brain is going.

There's a reason why six people, six municipalities have jumped ship.

Right?

And there's a reason why we didn't have 23% participation.

We almost have a quarter of NISP because people have jumped ship, not because we asked to have a quarter of it.

What was our participation percentage when we started?

Um sixteen and a quarter.

Yeah.

Up until the recent divestments.

So we had sixteen of the risk.

And now if we vote yes to keep going, we assume twenty-three percent of the risk.

And that those are real numbers.

And when I I look at this, you know, 180,000 to buy an acre foot.

Man, that is that's magnitudes off of what we're doing with CBT.

And I realize CBT is a finite source, so the cost will likely go up, but will it go up triple?

And I might I might want to ask Peter Andrea to weigh in on this.

It the yield, I think for NISP is a little different than a CBT unit.

Okay, yeah, explain that.

Yeah, just to clarify the units we're talking about.

So the the numbers that Todd mentioned for the current price of CBT unit acquisitions in the range of 57 to 62,000, that's for a single CBT unit.

The town code says each of those units is one half of an acre foot.

So you basically double that cost for a per acre foot value.

So that's um on the low side it'd be 116,000 on the high side 125,000 roughly.

Which is still two-thirds of the cost of what we're projecting NISP to be with financing.

With finance, that's correct.

Yeah.

But I mean, we our residents have to pay the financing too.

Right.

And in the NISP participant meetings, the question has been asked, will there be a quota like there's for CBT?

And the answer, if I understood it, is no, but it will be subject to variable hydrology inevitably.

Yeah.

The risk is is I don't know.

Apples.

Apples to apples.

If you were to go out and buy CBD, you'd have to finance it too.

Uh we haven't been financing it, right?

Well, we paid cash.

But if you were if you were to buy the equivalent right now, yeah, you would probably have to finance it.

Or just take it out of your general fund budget.

I don't think that's true.

We have to finance this because you have to pay for it all up front.

And CBT, you don't pay for it all up front.

You you buy it as you get it.

This is you're paying for NISP, right?

Building the dam and all of that.

That's why you have to finance it, correct?

Yeah, that I think it's a fair point, and it's been brought up in some of the NISP meetings of if you wanted to go buy that big tronche of CBT, you're gonna finance it too.

But we're not gonna that's not what we've been doing right now.

Um, but that might be what people start doing if NISP were to go away.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, and I'm gonna give everybody another chance here.

Um we do have water for town center.

I was told that before is um um Council Mr.

Hobeck, I think was implying we don't have water for town center.

Is that right?

Oh, I I think that might have been me.

Or you were I well, I didn't I didn't know.

I just was just giving examples, but the grocer is not at risk because of this.

Is that a true state?

I can't answer that.

I haven't been in those conversations.

I'd have to um owe you an answer from I'd have to ask Julian or Sarah Normella.

Yeah, and it was Julian in the water meeting that actually said that he's right there.

Oh he's here still putting it.

Come on up.

So the the question is our current allocations of CBT.

Do we have water for town center?

Can't lose me that easy.

Um yeah, when we talked about the allocation policy earlier, the breakdown of acre feet that we have for the next six years, that's contemplated.

Yeah, okay.

Just want to make sure that that was clear.

Um you know, the way to get NISP built to me is to get more participants, not less.

I think we're having this conversation because people have jumped ship.

And I know that that's been part of the conversation, but my understanding is there hasn't been the energy to try to bring more people in.

I think partially because we have um we have an investment made.

And then do you let people in for free?

Well, I would say the investment at this point because we we have a sense on what it's gonna cost.

It's bad money at this point.

It's not panning out the way that it originally thought it was gonna pan out.

But if you got more participants and you go back up to the bigger size, then the cost goes down per participant.

And so I think that's the underlying issue on on why it's uh it's so expensive.

And then it just goes back to it's for growth, it's not for what we have today.

All right, let's just go back.

I think um Councilman Mortalero, and then I'll come back to you.

Or either way.

We can go wrong.

All right, let's just let's just do that.

Yeah.

Um thank you.

So my question was uh I think the conversation it keeps alluding to increase water rates for current residents.

If we stay in NISP, and but I'm also hearing CBT will be more expensive.

Um I'm assuming water rates are going up because water is precious in the Mountain West.

And so I'm just curious if if we walk away from NISP, we're walking away from watering rate increases.

Like I don't want to I don't want to give that impression to the public if that's not true.

Oh no, um well, there's just a lot of uncertainty.

Obviously, we're struggling with this too.

It's tough for us to we want to come here and give you all the answers and make it an easy decision, but um water rates will go up over time regardless.

Water infrastructure needs to be replaced, and there's certain aspects of that that is not related to growth.

Um there's for instance, you know, the the upgrade at Lynn Morgan, most of that is just replacing equipment that's worn out.

Um there's there we get a little extra capacity.

You can you can uh uh assess that to growth, but for the most part it's that.

So I don't think you'd find any person in this industry that would tell you that those rates are going down over time and they're not going up.

It'll go up just like everything does.

So it it's like having a car, you know, it doesn't get cheaper overtime.

Right.

So will it um could the cost of increased cost of water, whether it's from CBT or some other source, cause rates to go up if we don't have NISP when we're trying to acquire water other places.

It's just who knows.

Yeah, like we don't know.

Yeah, I mean, I think you're kind of getting at the conundrum that we're facing in general.

If I don't have a concrete number to put into a forecast, it's very hard for me to give a definitive answer, which to Todd's point is very hard for me as a finance professor or professional to like you know, not have a definitive answer, but that's what would give us that answer is is the certainty of knowing you know what what we're in for, what the cost is over time, what we're financing, if it is an alternative source or it is NISP.

Um that's what's gonna give us that answer ultimately.

Okay.

And I feel like that's what I keep coming back to is we don't have that.

We don't have an alternative source to NISP.

We don't have the answers to whether or not it will increase rates currently for current ratepayers.

Um and then also using water to slow the number of people that move to Erie, that is it's it's scary to me that we would consider doing that to slow growth.

And um, you know, if you don't want to be 80,000 people or or whatever it is, that that's that is going to have long-term impacts um on people who live here.

So I just feel like we need to find an alternative if it's not NISP, and we need to have full understanding uh what it is gonna cost.

And I feel like we don't have those that information yet.

And so for those reasons we should stay in until we know more.

So our our last water rate increase was roughly four percent.

Um it increased four and a half percent of the last couple years, right?

Yeah, on average.

Yeah, right.

Okay, I mean that's comes with inflation and and cost of of living and everything.

So yeah, we we continue to expect to get, but we're not talking four and a half percent increase with with this project.

We're talking double digits or greater, right?

And and there was a strong concern from the from the residents with the four and a half percent, right?

Um that that we that we receive, right?

A lot of feedback from that.

Maybe you did out on the campaign trail.

I didn't really hear a lot about the four and a half percent increase.

There was a strong reaction from the development community on when we raised the water dedication fee.

Which was not raised to the recommended amount either.

Which was not um, and then if we voted yesterday, we're writing a check for three million dollars, three million dollars more on top of the 30 million.

When does the next check come due?

You said it's probably significantly higher because construction will have started and whatnot.

So when does that's the 2027 bill?

Um that we expect to see significant increased costs as part of the next interim agreement.

Uh that would be coming in the beginning of 2027.

Right.

So this one was delayed until now.

The next one's gonna be due in less than a year, right?

It's gonna be due in in January.

Yeah, unless we can you know talk with them to get them see how what kind of progress they made with this one and see if we can talk with them about slowing that down a little bit more.

But um, there's a point in which they want to know are we moving forward with the project or not?

So um that's kind of where it leaves us.

Do we have any idea how much that one in January will be?

Um I can help Todd.

What's that?

Um this afternoon the draft 2027 budget was circulated by email, and it was about 28 million, and it would it's the intent is the participants will discuss it with Northern at the next meeting on June 1st.

Okay.

So that's the draft budget, 28 million across everybody for 2027.

And we'd pay 23% of that.

Which is six point four four million.

Thank you.

You see where this is going.

Comments.

I uh my I mean my two big hesitancies now is I've already like I mean, I'm thinking I think exactly along the lines uh that you are mayor, but the um I guess I wasn't thinking for town center, but but maybe just I don't know.

I'm thinking we have several LOIs that we're have in place with developers, and I I have a feeling that if we pull out of this, that that might jeopardize some of those.

Um my other hesitancy is the fact that council O'Connor is but but um I'm not I I term limited and I'm done at the end of the year, and but looking at 2027 for you guys that are gonna be here that that um uh yeah, I mean what do you say six six and a half?

So yeah.

Um I I get there's no silver bullet, but um uh that's kind of the shame of all this because the I I know Fort Collins Level and was that Firestone were screaming their heads off for a long time about concerns about the the cost overruns on this, and it's not necessarily anybody's fault.

A lot of stuff happened over a long period of time, but um you know I think as we talked about one time is if this were a stock, I mean, are you are you gonna short sell it or um I um it's it's a value is already zero.

Remember, nobody wants to buy those that are out there all right.

I'll see if there's a motion to approve resolution 26099.

So moved second, all right.

Any further discussion?

All right, we'll take a roll call vote.

All right.

Yes.

So what happens if this doesn't pass?

What are next steps?

There would be no payments.

There would be no agreement adopted.

That's as far as I can tell you.

I would defer to Pete and Andrea on operationally what would happen next.

Yes.

Uh if this motion doesn't carry your essentially not signing the agreement, not agreeing to any of the obligations in that agreement, which is again the interim agreement that would carry through to the end of this year.

Um so the immediate effect is it's it's essentially a forfeiture of your interest in the project.

Um whether there may be other options for us to discuss with Northern about potential long-term interests or resurrecting the interest, we could certainly explore those types of options, but from a legal perspective, you are essentially forfeiting your interest in the project at that point.

We would be vacating walking away.

Yes, that's right.

We still have a motion and second.

I do have another clarifying question.

Um at one point we said we only needed 3500 shares, and yet you're recommending 4500 shares.

So why is that?

We were looking at 3500 at one time.

We would have 6500 shares, and so we were looking at divesting 3,000 of them.

The 4500 comes from the recent raw water model that we did.

All right.

One other clarifying question.

Umce there's six of us here.

If this ends in 3-3, uh, can council member O'Connor uh uh call for a motion to reconsider since he wasn't present, or is that I think you have to be on the prevailing side of the vote.

Oh, there won't be a prevailing side.

I was gonna say there isn't.

This is a sort of a unique situation in that um there are other um to Pete's point operational realities that would happen, and so I'm not sure if that's possible.

That's okay.

I mean, as a business person, it's hard for me to believe that northern would say okay, we're done, and they just move on.

Because the other participants probably won't make up this, so I hopeful that conversations will continue, but no way to predict that here at the moment.

That's just coming from a business perspective, right?

There's there's a lot on the line for them to just walk away as well.

It's also a huge gamble.

Yeah, it's a three thousand dollar gamble right now with a few months later a six point four four million dollar gamble coming up, all right.

I'm looking to our town clerk.

You ready to take the roll call vote?

Okay, council member Mortalero.

No council member Hoback?

Yes, uh Mayor Pro Tem Bell.

Yes, uh Councilmember Pessimarelli?

Yes, uh Councilmember Bear.

Yes.

Mayor Moore.

No.

All right, so the motion passes.

Motion passes.

All right, we have to go back to the last topic because we needed a roll call vote on the two ordinances because they were emergency ordinances, and that was missed in the process.

So I'm gonna see if there's a motion to approve ordinance number 2426, amending title eight, chapter one.

Oh move.

Second.

We have a motion and second, and we'll I miss the first.

Um the first was uh councilmember mortalero.

Okay, and the second was um hold back.

Okay.

Uh let's see here.

Councilmember Bear.

Yes.

Right?

Uh yes.

Oh, I don't know.

That's what I'm doing with that same.

Councilmember Hobak.

Yes.

Councilmember Pessimarelli.

Yes.

Council Member Mortalero.

Yes.

Mayor Pro Tem Bell.

Yes.

And I think Mayor Moore.

Yes.

Passes.

All right.

I'll see if there's a motion to approve ordinance 2526, amending Title IX, Chapter 1.

So move.

Second.

All right.

Any further discussion?

All right, roll call vote.

Councilmember Hoback.

Yes.

Councilmember Pessimarelli.

Yes.

Mayor Pro Tem Bell.

Yes.

Councilmember.

Can't remember who I called first now.

Huh?

Councilmember Bear.

Yes.

Have I missed anybody yet?

Councilmember Mortalera.

Yes.

And Mayor Moore.

Yes.

Motion passes.

All right.

We cleaned up that clerical error.

Now we'll go on to Councilmember reports and announcements.

I'll start with Councilmember Bear.

Thank you.

If you go to the town website, it pops up, but everyone might not know about it.

So go find it's about um a ballot question for lodging tax, and there's a survey you can take.

Is this week's word of Thanksgiving campaign with um next with Kyle Clark?

And I think that starts tomorrow.

Um so make sure you check that out on Wednesday at 6 p.m.

I think is what the when the story will go live, and then you can donate to Cole Creek Meals on Wheels.

And they serve um lots of folks here in Erie, and their fastest growing um demographic is young families, and so I can imagine that over the summer months um that'll be really important for kids who rely on nutrition from schools that won't have that access.

So um I testified at the PUC last week um on May 19th regarding Excel's request to hike rates again, 10% about 10% per uh energy bill, and I asked the commission to consider asking Excel to invest in their infrastructure instead because um municipalities and ratepayers are paying the cost when they have to do those safety shutoffs.

Um and it's because their equipment is not safe enough to operate in certain weather conditions.

So um that will come back before the PUC, I believe in August, and they'll make a decision then.

Um I want to say happy memorial day to everyone and thank you to the EPD and to Troop 62 for um a great memorial day service um out at the out at the cemetery.

It was so great to see Councilmember Pesromelli.

Um and then I just wanted to highlight the pride proclamation earlier this evening.

Um very near and dear to my heart, and I was thankful that everyone came out for the reading of that.

Um this will be the year first year that our pride flag is not on the flag poles in town, and I have had conversations with folks um, and that is heartbreaking.

Also, Juneteenth, we won't have a flag raising or a flag displayed to commemorate the end of slavery.

Um but we will be having a an event on Juneteenth.

Um, and so look for details about that.

Um I I saw the announcement, but I didn't memorize it, so I don't want to get it wrong.

So um so I think that was everything from me, everything important anyway.

So thank you.

All right.

Uh just thanks for everybody who supported the town fair.

Uh it was a great event, great turnout.

So that's all for me.

Okay.

Councilmember Hoback.

Um yeah, the town fair was great.

Uh love the new bridge.

And uh I'd like to echo council member bear's um comments about the pride proc proclamation and thanking the residents uh for being here to show their appreciation.

It's also very important to me.

Um it's it's still problematic to me that we altered the flag policy last year.

Um that we cannot honor and recognize uh at town hall and the cemetery and the police department where we have members of um the LBGT community, um people of color um who are not necessarily visible and included in the safe spaces um that the proclamation and our town charter refer to.

Um I won't always always be loud, but I am determined to help bring back the pride and GT flags to pre pledge allegiance not just to a symbol but to the values that that symbol stands for in bringing liberty and justice for all of our community.

That's it.

All right, Councilmember Peterson.

Okay, report?

Uh thing tonight.

All right, and I'll just say um on June second, our next meeting, um, we're gonna have a study session to bring back the details of the Draco um negotiations.

Um they still may fall apart, so but we are to the point where we feel like we're gonna put it out there publicly and have a discussion on it.

So June second, six PM um right here.

All right.

Um I'll look over to our uh town manager to report tonight.

Okay, and our town attorney.

The town attorney's office is hiring.

We cover a number of really interesting issues.

If you want to be part of a growing wonderful team, um so if you are a lawyer or you know a lawyer, please apply.

All right.

Sounds good.

And with that, I will adjourn the meeting.