Good afternoon, everyone.

Uh, welcome to our county council personnel and finance meeting dated June the 24th, 2026.

For those in attendance, thank you for attending.

And for those streaming via Granagus, we welcome you as well.

We'll open our meeting with an attendance roll call, please.

Council Member Yaccarino here.

Councilmember Shetler.

Here.

Council Member Piefer.

Here.

Councilmember Bassmeyer.

Council Member Raven.

Here.

Councilmember Hahn.

Here.

President Montrestail.

Here we have a quorum.

Next up, we'll have a pledge of allegiance led by Councilmember Shatler and then the invocation by Paula.

What is it?

Or which is one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice or father.

Praise you for this meeting and your purpose for it.

We know that when we gather together, you always have a divine agenda.

We love you for that, Father.

Even when we have done what you have asked, the results are so much greater than we could have ever imagined.

Even in failed attempts, you amaze us with your faithfulness to provide what we need.

In your name we pray.

Amen.

Thank you, Paul.

Thank you, Tom.

This is our PNF meeting.

It'll be a much shorter meeting than we're typically we typically have.

First up is we'll talk about appropriations.

We've got several items there, and then we have one item under new business, and that's the pension plan.

So um James, you want to do this part?

Um, happy to do that.

Okay, first uh on the agenda is under the sheriff.

We've got a request for garage motor.

The sheriff is here to answer any questions anyone may have.

What the request is for 140,000, and that's garage motor is all the repairs and whatnot for his uh all his staff cars.

Hello.

Hey, sheriff.

Greetings.

How are you?

Any questions about the appropriation request for graduate motion?

What would we would we budget for um the previous year?

I mean, this is a a pretty substantial increase, and he's got what 35k left in his budget, so uh I'm just wondering.

So thinking look at my notes here.

I think we spent 320,000 in 2025.

320.

Let me look there.

Regan was you remind me, Regan.

You step up here for a second.

Let me make sure I don't get my facts straight here.

Want to see what I started the year off of.

Was it two?

And then we have we got an appropriation for 120 later on.

Yeah, so we total spend was one 320,000 last year, a little bit over that, of which 120,000 was an additional appropriation we asked for in August of 25 and received.

So uh somebody do the math.

Are we on course to spend more this year?

Yeah, we've had some transmission failures and some engine issues, uh so we are asking for 140,000 this year as opposed to 120,000 that we asked last year, and we are asking for it a bit sooner.

We asked for it in August of last year.

Now we're only in June of this year.

Yeah, so uh and it's just maintenance.

They just don't make them like they used to.

I know it's a cliche, but the Crown VIX it was, you know, that we I could drive those things to 200,000 miles, and maybe or maybe not have to replace a transmission.

We're seeing our Ford or Fords now.

Um, it's not uncommon to replace a transmission or four-wheel drive unit uh before 120,000 miles.

You know, I think we've had this similar discussion with Sheriff Wedding about who does the maintenance and that contract and how does that work again?

We've had a long-standing contract with uh Musterman's auto service.

We do price check him, and we find him to be highly competitive and more importantly, extremely reliable.

Uh, in fact, getting our cars in and out quickly, uh, and not requiring us to make an appointment to do it, but gets us in and out as fast as possible.

Uptime is the biggest problem for us.

We gotta keep these cars on the road.

All right, we have a breakdown.

Um, aging fleet.

Yeah.

What a guesstimation of what you consider aging.

What's the median age?

I drive a 2015 myself.

I try to keep the new cars um on the line for the guys, but it's not uncommon for us, and we still have some Crown Victoria's uh tan and brown ones still in service, so we do have cars that date back to you know 2007, 2008.

Um so a lot of our cars have in excess of a hundred thousand miles, some of them have you know approaching two hundred thousand miles.

We try not to just make a blanket rule about when to get out rid of a car.

It's done in consultation with our mechanic Bob Monsterman.

If he tells us the car is beginning to to uh have more maintenance than it's worth as far as the upkeep, then we get rid of it.

But we try to squeeze as much life out of them as possible.

And so how many are we talking?

What's your fleet?

Uh total fleet size is sitting at around 110 now last the last time I checked.

Those include transport vans, detective vehicles, and the vast majority of them are patrol cars, which get driven the hardest.

Cool.

James, haven't we generally had a kind of a guideline that we put in every year for capital expenditure on new cars?

We buy like 10 or 15 or 20.

There's a set relatively set number, but it's typically when you purchases we've been doing like 250,000, and then another 50,000 or something along the line of equipment like a clip light bars and separate uh separate account.

So it's it's probably 300 and 350,000, so I mean, we haven't really changed the definition of what we're trying to buy with that.

I mean, we're still trying to replace the fleet every five, seven years, whatever it is.

I don't know the math on it.

But the number and again, uh I mean, and with prior shares, and I think he's just still living by it.

Uh, but I think the number was always told to us by past sheriffs that they would like to replace three cars a year or four.

It's very difficult to have a set number of vehicles to replace a year.

It really has more to do with how many cars have been wrecked that year, how many cars have just aged out, and the maintenance is exceeding the value of the vehicle.

Um, I would I would love to replace five cars a year, but I don't I don't know that occasionally we can do that, but um I understand it's uh limited by my budget, and quite frankly, if I don't need to replace a car, I'm not gonna replace a car.

I'm gonna try to get as much mileage out of as I can.

For each vehicle, what is the typical expense?

It depends on where that vehicle's gonna be assigned.

If it's gonna go to patrol, which requires a lot more equipment, you're looking at an all-in-cost of around fifty-five thousand dollars, sixty thousand dollars, depending on configuration.

You know, did everyone understand when he mentioned the old crown VIX, they're still out there.

You can't kill them, can you?

Body on frame, yeah, two-wheel rear wheel drive only, they're just they're taxi cabs.

They're new stuff today, and you know what I still need about it from it's a passenger car.

Automotive repair was these new uh Ford unit settings, they're all wheel drive, they are.

And when you get in transmissions on something all-wheel drive, it's extremely expensive.

And they are a problem.

I mean, we use Jasper rebuilds um to keep the cost down on the on the you know, reman units.

We're not buying them from direct from Ford, but you're right, they're all wheel drive, which is great in the snow.

I mean, we used to anybody's ever driven a crown vic in the snow, it's a special kind of skill set required to do it.

Um, but they do have a transfer case, which means you've got a transmission that can fail, and now you got a transfer case that can fail.

And roll the dice, one of them probably will to 420,000.

It probably doubles the price of it.

So, are you still able to?

I'm trying to think of the program that whenever like you get um somebody's you you confiscate somebody's car maybe because of a drug deal or something like that.

Are you still able to auction those off or it's so uncommon to confiscate a car because the car has to be paid off?

The bank has the first right to go after that car.

So finding a vehicle that's that's been paid for in cash and uh and could be conti to the to a drug trade is is less common.

And I don't, you know, some of the cars that we would seize um you wouldn't want on the line either.

And you know, we do have some seizure money, and we do use some of that money occasionally to buy vehicles out of, but it's not a lot.

Okay.

Thank you.

Okay.

Well, we'll keep moving.

Uh Sheriff, while you're up, they will go to area plan next.

Uh under L IT have the request for uh confinement officers.

Yes.

Uh so anybody has any questions on that, be happy to speak.

Marching toward the new jail opening, which we hope will occur sometime in December or January.

Uh, this, as you can probably tell from the request, the staggers the hires so that we're not hiring them all at once.

So we're not gonna request the full amount of the line be full uh filled immediately.

Um, but this will allow us to ramp up training so that we can be ready to recall all the inmates from outside jails uh effective the first day that the jail can be operated.

Have you begun to gather a pool of potential employees?

We are we're doing well as far as our recruitment.

It has tapered off a bit.

Uh I'm looking forward on my hope is that when we get a little bit further along the line with the CO contract as well as the deputy contract of the CO contract for this purpose, we can start advertising the new rate for next year, and that'll drive some folks toward us.

That and the buzz and the excitement of the new facility.

We're hoping to get a good influx uh here in the next few months to uh fill the fill the openings.

I just wondering, Sheriff, um and others, uh what whether it makes sense to approve.

I mean, there's a lot of them here, all of them at once, or we approve it, you know, as you as they come we come closer.

I mean, we're gonna we're gonna staff the jail.

You know, um I'm I'm just thinking, you know, uh for uh for whatever month, October month, there's must be five or six there.

You you may not have filled what you needed the month prior, you know.

Yeah, and whether I mean, whether you come to us uh a little more, and then we can have a little more discussion about about um you know the hiring process and who you're bringing on and such instead of you know 20 of them all at once.

Well I um of course we're not hiring them all at once, we're gonna face it.

Yeah, I know they're phased in.

I I get that.

So it's it's kind of accomplishing what you're suggesting already, unless I'm missing something because our intention is to hire a lot of things.

I mean, you're you're kind of asking to for approval for, you know, um September, October, November, all these months instead of doing it month by month.

I don't know.

I'm just I'm just throwing it out for discussion.

I'm not sure it's uh they take quite a while to train, and so we're requesting this so that we can train them in blocks so that you know so that we don't overload the uh training staff.

So that that's that's why we're doing it this way, so that we don't have to do a large training class all at once, and that we've got a uh a variety of individuals who've been through different stages of training.

Uh it's necessary to do it this way so it's as so we don't overload our training program.

Okay, and I guess maybe it also uh I again I I want this the new expansion to be fully staffed and that we've talked about you know, completely on your um at a level where it's very comfortable for us for for the employees for yeah, our goal is to meet the minimum.

But maybe maybe there maybe we could do without one or two correctional officers just for the saving of money because of the revenue cut that we're coming from.

Okay, this plan that we put forth uh already has shaven off what the jail commander is comfortable with.

I told him he's gonna have to cut more than that.

So this is the this is less than the minimum that he told me he was comfortable with.

Um really yeah, it it it we've already cut it to the bone.

I think he'll back my play on that.

Dave, you want to describe how the program works in terms of when we bring folks on and how long it takes to get them through programming.

Roughly, let's say you want to come up here.

This is Dave Gettling, he's my jail commander.

I don't know if he's introduced himself to you guys before, but you want to give them a brief overview of like when we bring somebody on, how long it takes them to get to the training to where they're ready to be on the floor by themselves.

Sure, yeah.

If I would bring a new group on this week, it's probably three weeks classroom, and then followed by at least two months of rotations on the floor, and the classroom is is for our our 40 hour mandated ILEA uh jail officers course, and then we put them through a 40 hour specific to the Vanderburgh County jail course, along with a week of uh fiscal tactics training and you know, OC and pepper ball and that kind of stuff training.

So three weeks before we actually touch the floor with them.

Yeah.

And then uh another couple months, we we put them through rotations on each shift with uh different training staff members.

So uh to sheriff's point on like staggering, it's really nice when we can have one group go through, get through that first phase of training, and then start another group right on the back end of that.

So month by month training blocks.

I only have a dozen dedicated training officers.

So if we did a large group, I'd be I'd be training with with non-training staff that aren't used to doing that, and it'll just be a less effective uh training program for them.

So I think that's really the big draw to the concept of of breaking it up like we like we have it, have it done on paper right now.

Yeah, as I look at this, Dave, um, and thank you for that.

Uh you've got in the month of September seven, and then the following month, uh seven more confinement officers, followed by eight more confiners.

So that looks like that's your class size pretty much, seven, eight.

And that would be fantastic.

You mean if you you mean if you're able to get that many?

Yeah, and I want to point one thing out.

If you'll notice that the class that we would be hiring in uh November, they'll still be in training even while the new jail is open.

So we're we're definitely cutting it right to the line to avoid um encumbering funds that we don't need.

You know, if you're fortunate enough to get that class of seven, say, uh how many will typically make it to the floor?

It's hard to predict.

Yeah, it's probably a sometimes every one of them, sometimes half of them, yeah.

All right.

Okay, Tom.

Um I don't mean to put words in anybody's mouth here, but I would assume that the guys that start off kind of early by the time they get closer to that November, December, that they're pretty well ready to go.

And I know that they still need some help and assistance and stuff, but I would imagine that would cut some of the overtime that you're spending on the current guys.

It would reduce that because now you got a guy that's you know 90%.

Particularly during uh this build-up this year, you're absolutely right.

Now, once we hit the next year and the jail opens up, I have to meet my minimum shift amounts then, but you're absolutely right.

And you look at hiring somebody in you know, let's say uh September, two months of training plus classroom time.

I'm gonna be getting into November and December anyway, so it it's we really are cutting it as close to the line as possible here.

Uh to avoid, you know, using funds or encumbering funds that we're not gonna actually need.

So, but you're right.

It will cut down overtime this year, and vice versa.

If you don't have enough qualified day one, then you're gonna be getting overtime from the you're right.

We can't, you know, we just can't run short without you know increasing risk and safety, and you can only do that so long before it it bites you.

Yeah, all right.

Thanks, thank you.

I thought they found it through and I said, Okay, I mean go back to where we were at here.

I think you're ready for area plan if there's no questions, yes.

Area plan and Ron Lennon is in the uh.

No.

James, you have we do have one more, don't we?

What's the uh medical?

Uh do you we do have one more uh appropriation request from uh jail and medical?

It's up to you if you want to address that one now or later.

Wow, what man, yeah, I know.

I don't I take note, I take it.

Rising hospital costs and poor health.

Yeah, it's it's unbelievable.

Just a lot of claims.

I think there've never seen anything like it.

When we talk about claims, we're talking about uh inmates.

Yeah, I and Catherine Gelling and I were talking earlier today.

I think, Dave, you tell me we were up uh compared to 2024 to 2025.

We were up 200 medical transports.

Is that what you told?

Just shy of just shy of this gives you those are like logging how many times we're taking an inmate out of the jail, which means start the dollar sign clock, we're taking them to a specialist or a hospital up 200 from where we were in 2024.

Did it go from did it go from 300 to 500, 24 to 25?

396 to 566 or 568.

So it's just medical expenses are increasing both in volume and the price per treatment.

So we have we signed a contract earlier this year with uh a group Heritage to try to get a handle on bill scrubbing to see if we can maybe challenge some of these medical bills.

It's we're not asleep at the wheelhoof, I promise you.

We're trying to get a handle on these rising prescription costs and outpatient expenses, so it's something we're keenly focused on, but uh unfortunately I had to ask for an appropriation last year for the similar purpose, and it's gotten no better this year.

It's just rising medical costs.

So if these people do have insurance, oh, we bill it.

Yeah, yeah.

We are billed, but we are we try to build it anyway.

What's your success rate there?

Oh gosh.

It's been our experience that most inmates um either have inadequate or insufficient insurance.

So I would guess, and without having the numbers in front of me, Dave, do you have any idea how many of our insurance uh our inmates are actually insured, excluding Medicare, Medicaid?

No, yeah.

It's not much.

I think it's around 30 percent that actually have a valid policy.

So I can get that data for you and report back.

I'll be happy to.

So does Medicaid or Medicare pay very well for consideration?

Medicare will.

Um Medicaid is a thorny issue.

Um, and it's dependent on whether they accept the fact that the inmate is in the in the jail or not.

You know, if sometimes they will say no, the inmates are incarcerated and therefore their Medicaid benefits are suspended.

Other times they will pay.

I will say that our policy is typically to bill Medicaid always if it's a if it's they're on it, and if they'll pay, great, but oftentimes they reject the claim.

Okay, so sheriff, how much do you have any idea of how much on our total medical expenses might go to um psych evaluations and uh mental uh assistance or help in any way?

That's I'm using some of the funding from the opioids uh settlement dollars to pay for the on-site mental health services, and so that's uh that's sitting at around total in for Southwest behavioral health, is sitting at around 350,000 dollars a year.

They do our jail-based common C restoration.

Um, and I get a lot for my money in terms of that regard because it gets folks out of the jail faster.

Um, but that that part of that funding for that is coming from the opioid settlement funds, and part of it is coming from my medical budget as well.

But that's that's a relatively new spend in getting involved in that true category.

I mean, we've done it for a couple years here, but but we've always had psychiatric services in the jail, it's just more than we used to, you're right.

Okay, so what percentage-wise, what would that be?

Three fifty out of the 350 is the uh, you know, Rick can help me with my total contractual, reading my total contractual uh medical budget for the year is one mil, one mil, one two, something like that.

Off top of head, I think it's about 1.2 million.

Okay, so somewhere in the neighborhood of uh 30 percent roughly, yes.

Again, uh some of that though is not coming out of the actual medical contractual, it's coming out of uh opioid settlement, but that those funds are not gonna last forever, I don't know.

So, all right, thank you.

Okay, any other questions?

I just wonder, um, I'm not an insurance person, whatsoever.

As far as understanding uh health insurance, how do we provide the course health insurance for not employees?

Um, could there is there?

Is there something there where you get insurance for I don't think so, inmates?

I like the way you I like the way you think, John.

I do.

It's clever.

That's clever.

We have looked at that.

I've had limited success with the companies I reached out to.

But if you want to task Mr.

Dillow and investigating that, I would be all for that.

If we can have an insurance policy that covers somebody when they come in, it's all about it.

I would say it'd be worthwhile to I guess what we ought to do is get clarification, unless you're for sure you know, I guess with the state in terms of Medicaid to understand whether or not we can get them on Medicaid or not.

I would deliver the law, they will not accept a Medicaid.

If you're on if you're in the jail, and I forget the number of days that it triggers, then you are taken off Medicaid.

Yeah, and I'm wondering though if we could ask the state, you know.

Whether it's within the power of the state to make those rules as to who's eligible, or whether that's strictly driven by the federal government guidelines that are given to the state.

And the reason I say that is that in some respects I look at this as to the extent the state would control that, I would make the argument to the state that especially like on those level sixes, they're really yours.

You're making us hold them.

So we do get reimbursed, yeah, you are.

Okay, so they would get that.

But I mean, by the same accord, I guess I'm saying some of the jail overcrowding is created by the state or you know what have you, that to the extent they can massage their regulations to allow them to be Medicaid eligible.

Now I don't know if there's a federal guideline that trumps that and they don't have that authority, but if they have that authority, I think we should be talking to the state, because that's going to be your cheapest source.

I mean, if you talk about getting insurance anywhere else, it's not going to be as cheap as what you can get Medicaid.

The question is whether the state has the ability we can lobby them to make them eligible, or whether it's a federal rule.

The Sheriff's Association has lobbied the legislature to allow Medicaid coverage through HIP, the state's plan to continue.

That's been met with uh limited actually no success to date.

But you're absolutely right, the easiest solution would be for the state to cover those folks while they're in jail.

And some states do, so I know it's permissible.

Can I give you my take on this?

We're going to have to start building again because if we offer this everyone in Vandenberg County uninsured would try to get locked up.

That's not true.

Well, you know, the way Medicaid works is if they may, if they qualify when they were in jail, they'd qualify out of jail because it's strictly an income base, uh, you know.

And the reason you would want Medicaid versus private insurance is because the reimbursement rates, you know, are so low because you know I get these bills in various cases, and you look and if somebody had 10,000.

It's getting exhausting.

Uh I mean, I don't mean this in a negative way, but we don't have control over the Medicaid thing.

It's and it's every state isn't debt on it.

It's getting more restrictive.

Go for it, long shot.

I know.

Just the quick quick in this conversation.

It is go look at the finances of the state of Indiana.

There's one thing that's negative.

You're right.

And it's not a conversation for us anyway, but we can shop it.

We're just not a conversation for us to I'm saying you can shop it.

The Medicaid aspect of it is not controlled by us.

Like we're not gonna we can you can go shop and we can request it.

I'm just telling you, I would be shocked if it was even a conversation starter.

All right, is what I'm saying.

To shop and see insurance plans, that's that's a smart thing to do.

But it's a huge, it's a massive debt, and that would just increase it.

That's all I'm saying.

And we're we can continue to to have conversations about that here, and again, I I don't disagree with you, John.

I'm actually that's what this meeting is is for for discussion.

Okay, and and if and if and if it's a moot point, we we need to move on because it's not gonna happen.

I'm I would just like I said when I open this, I don't have all the insurance answers.

I don't know insurance that well.

But if if we could find a way through insurance, uh, and if it's Medicaid, yeah, I would love to investigate that or have somebody in your office investigate that we'll continue to push the Medicaid Healthy Indiana plan through the state legislature through the Indiana Sheriff Association.

Adding your voice to that would certainly be welcome, although to your point, you're right.

There's a reason it doesn't cover you don't cover inmates because it's state of state money.

Um I do think it's a really good idea to explore private insurance.

That's pretty clever.

I know we have looked into it somewhat.

We had a plan there briefly that we were trying out, that fell apart, and I can't remember why it did, Dave.

Do you remember the plan?

But what was it called?

It had a snazzy name at some point.

I was out of Florida, I believe the company was.

It folded.

It folded.

Because something about not having a permanent address.

Right.

Right.

But two weeks later, they are released.

Yeah.

And I have more paperwork for that individual, but I don't know where they're at now.

So our we we shopped it, we did it for probably over a year with this plan that our free as healthcare provider had keyed is in on, but from a success rate standpoint, it was very, very low.

I'll follow up with John.

Um John, I'm not challenging you questioning the insurance thing.

I'm just telling you the met the Medicaid aspect is way tougher than just.

I know that's I was focusing on the Medicaid.

The insurance, I get it.

If there's an other option, shop it take a look at it.

When we get a new guest in the jail, right?

Um they get they get insurance, right?

I mean, if there's if they're insured, they are if they are uninsured that the county effectively becomes their medical provider.

I mean, is it is it so devious for some to I'm gonna get arrested so I can get something taken care of?

Oh, this is called.

Maybe I mean that is.

It's probably more about food and shelter at some times of the year than it is about someone strategically planning insurance.

But yeah, right.

Are you really talking about hospitalization?

Because in the jail, you're providing the care, you have doctors and nurses.

It's the hospitalization that would be the issue.

Hospitalization and specialties that uh and the some of the prescriptions that are the cost drivers for it medical in the medical care.

Off-site stuff that we have to take.

All right, yeah, investigate that'd be great.

I'll get back to you.

Okay, uh James, I think we're done with with the sheriff.

Okay.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

Thank you guys.

Appreciate you.

Thank you.

Um we're just asking for additional funds.

Oh yeah.

Um, what do we would have to ask for this?

But with uh multiple lawsuits and I think you want to find out about the uh decisions for the solvent project, which is uh core, why don't you give us the highlights of that?

So uh I think the decision uh was uh uh four to three decisions on the uh solar project.

Um, there's a lot of uh probably the spoke about it, so um, is that that case in court uh well as a couple other cases that were passed here at all these decisions?

So uh so bluegrass solar press a lawsuit because they lost the vote.

Wow.

They wanted to contest the decision that was made, and uh, they do that.

Right.

We want the case now, and uh they have the right to come back in the office if it's file if they want to and uh start opening some personal stuff.

So is this our county attorneys?

This is uh planning.

Which is who uh plan yeah, is there any opportunity to recoup the?

I mean, I mean it seems like okay, you lost a pretty standard process.

Is there any uh opportunity to recoup uh some of those additional expenses?

Uh I've asked that question before, and uh the response I've got it, you didn't receive any compensation from the first one?

We haven't received any compensation from any other cases that we won.

So we take it to judicial review, it's something that we have to have to pay our county that the Fed does have to whatever that takes a day, so um we don't really have any control over that matter, but um, Jeff, is that traditional?

Traditional in terms of litigation defending, yes.

I don't know.

Our firm didn't handle this matter.

Dirk is with another firm, so I don't know the specifics of what was involved other than generally knowing you had a lawsuit, so I've not seen any paperwork or Perdono.

So I don't know what the arrangements were.

We never saw the courtroom before this thing was decided it was going back and forth with the judge, and I don't have a lot of work out of these of that, but it had to do with some um paperwork items that after multiple months of asking for continuances.

I believe that the petitioner uh had forgotten to file their continuance one day late, and so the entire case was fellow, but that was after multiple months of going back and forth or soon.

So, my look, I haven't been involved in this, but my understanding from conversations that this was always a risk fighting it, that it could come down to a lawsuit and then we would be out.

Either way, if we would have decided that the solar project would go in, we were gonna we're gonna get suit two for that decision.

So it's other projects that are saying, we're gonna go to court because we're gonna be able to do it.

Which which is k kind of my point.

I I think no matter what that this is gonna be a a play out and an unfortunate expense to the scenario, yeah.

So I don't know any more about that, but from conversations I've had with attorneys who aren't representing either, just said, hey, here's here's this what the situation looks like.

So, well, James?

That's it.

Have they provided a reason to anticipate refiling convention center?

Uh, I said that they were looking to refile, but I'm not putting any vote for those systems.

So I don't know if that's one of the happily of the community.

Okay.

So I'll be that we have to run that in some kind of all the funding, but it's not going to be a refile for a referral.

Thank you.

All right, and thank you, Ron.

Thank you.

Last for appropriation request is convention center for maintenance and the amount of 88,003.

Anybody here to discuss that?

Hi Darren.

So this is not necessarily a request for thank you.

Okay.

But any other questions would be happy to answer.

You don't know what they want to spend the money on at all?

I'm not sure which of the projects this total amounts.

Oh, okay.

This is that third quarter installment of their contract.

Yeah.

That's what I was gonna ask.

Was this I mean, this was just basically what we kind of broke out whenever he came with his larger requests at the beginning.

I think the agreement was to break that total down into four installments, and this is the third quarter installment.

It will be done after the fourth.

Yeah.

Well I don't have that for twenty twenty six.

For twenty this is uh yeah it's not maintenance, it's operating expense is what the request we have reads we have in our packets third quarter operating expenses for twenty twenty six, same number eighty eight thousand okay so we'll have to see you doing all right okay how are you good haven't seen you but that was for now all right appreciate you thank you for coming.

We might ask if it is operating expenses you might next Wednesday when we make this uh take a vote on this if it's not maintenance and it is operating expense would be helpful if you could put us in on what those needs are I wouldn't have to do invoice I don't know if my dad is really voices I don't know what they're agreement.

I don't know if you're a joint department out of the operating one or that wasn't sort of that I have no idea.

I would definitely look into it for you and I can well either way would you ask for an item of saying of if it's maintenance.

Okay.

All right I'd I'd appreciate that thank you.

Thank you very much for the very good okay now we'll move on to new business uh next up is to discuss uh the Vanderburgh County police pension plan.

I told you what we think of course.

Hello Mr.

Clark I think you've been an officer I'm gonna guess twenty nine years.

I'm uh chairman of the long standing trustee on the fishery board um our actual planet carriers here I've reviewed everything that you have presented here is all accurate one or said uh as we had it presented to us last month and our picture movement.

Um he's gonna go over everything and he's gonna probably answer any questions that you guys would have probably answered much more accurately than I thought it would be a thing.

I think we all but I'm ready to actually play it for about two days.

Try to keep it as free as possible if you have any questions we go for the cleaning basically much larger plan of highlight that to 245 year would be contribution was in fact satisfied last year for that means three of the last five years the EC isn't that uh the investment return during 2025 when we're talking about the 66 and when we put everything together and measure the average liability and the 2026 request for contribution for the pension plan is two million one hundred eight thousand and three hundred eighty five dollars which is not easy from four three percent of the fact that the table.

Three other pieces of information here and the interesting I want to see we're gonna look for our questions and then on the people.

On the next page, we should see a summary of results for the pension plan.

There are two calls and numbers.

We'll both come up and 2026 results and the liability as of January 1, 2026, the tension plan is about 76.16 million dollars.

We had on hand that's used to actual value of access and fished size 1 million in the short fall that we're trying to take down and make up over time, about 53.2 million dollars.

And we take our asset and five by liability, the claim is about 80% funders.

A little bit of an improvement from last year on the market value bases, a little bit on the new space.

So basing a gain and losses from priority.

Of that amount, about $600,000.

So giving a balance of about 50% million dollars in normal cost, that's kind of a one-year cost of having a pension benefit for the depths.

To that, we add the amortization payment for paying down that $15.2 million and funded liability like a little over a million dollars.

We get both of those numbers of interest, and that's how we end up with that three point one zero eight million dollars in the tension standard.

I will highlight one more thing in the bottom of the row.

So funding that is maintenance contribution, that essentially the normal cost.

What's the interest on the end funded liability?

So if you think about one HPK, just interest on the mortgage, you're not paying down that more.

You're not paying down the principal, but you're paying expression.

So the combination of those two numbers is two million, one hundred and fifty-seven thousand.

It's actually a bit higher than the agency.

So if you have a room in the budget, we'd say that's more of a bus number to be targeting a computer in the population.

Kevin, maybe some of your numbers show this.

Uh how much is going out to the uh to the retired officers of the year approximately?

That's not the year, by my recollection, is somewhere in the neighborhood of like four million dollars a year.

Okay, that's correct.

Just over a million dollars a year.

And approximately how much do we want to put in every year?

I mean, if we if we got four million going out a year, we want at least four or five million going in each year.

What what do you think your investments are like the pension fund of sixty million plus the sitting there is investment to earn seven and a quarter percent of that expenses, and that's doing a lot of the labor as far as you know, we can continue to earn that earning two million dollars a year and investment and then if you uh if the investments fall short of that expectation, then cash might be usually make up that.

Gotcha, yeah.

So even though there are there is more money going out and truly a contribution is coming in, investments are kind of simple to that.

Okay, yeah.

Um, I have last year's pension and benefit plan dated July second.

You had said that um we are at 80 to 85% in compliance.

And you I have written down 77.77.

So is that your funded ratio?

Is that what you mean by that?

Uh so um funded percentage as of last year, as of January one, 2025, on a market value basis is about 27.0%.

So that is that value is correct.

The other piece of it, I'm not 100% sure what maybe is five percent.

Um, it may have been with reference to our calling that you're gonna have to be.

I was just comparing.

Thank you.

No other questions.

We move on to the benefit plan.

Uh so that's a much smaller plan to do, dealing with um death and disability benefits.

Um, highlighted again that 2025 ADC was satisfied last year, and I think three last five years where it was down five, um the AC computed this year for 2026 was significantly higher than the prior year, but still talking about relatively smaller numbers, so we can see with 156,000,757,000 seven hundred and fifty seven dollars.

It goes on the cat, we can't see the breakdown of thing definition.

Two columns of numbers there, uh we'll both become one for six.

You can see that to one point sixty two one million dollars, and that's because of the three items listing for the bottom of the slide.

So um there's a line of two that's because of what?

The three items listed at the bottom of that.

Okay, okay.

So it was a line of duty disability uh benefit awarded to sell it.

And up to 2100.

So we're going to put more people will likely become disabled and that was the last two.

And then there was uh a change to the plan where an enhanced line of food disability benefit is now providing that.

So valuing that accommodation is the fact that we see the increasing liability, but hopefully, it's ultimately the increase of contribution to the Kevin.

Sorry.

One more question.

Last year your estimated 2025 contributions assumed 14.5%.

This year you are assuming sixteen percent.

Why is that?

That's for the current agreement as far as items.

So that is telling me what the terminology maybe for the button is.

That is the percentage that is written into the depth of the C the A.

Okay.

So sixteen and a half was the percentage uh that we signed in the agreement with the county that we did for 2025 this year.

It was bumped up to 16%.

Um not sure where that's going to go for 2027 in the future, but we would like to see those bumped up a little bit here before we bring back some things like 12 months.

Okay.

I see where it's guesstimated, obviously.

That's a that's in Ryan.

Well, not just.

The the guesstimate was uh for the benefit of ADC review, we had actual contributions was believed eighty dollars.

And it came out to be a hundred and thirty-two dollars.

I'm guessing is what it ended up being.

Uh and some of that, and I'm gonna talk out of turn, because this isn't wheelhouse.

Uh some of that may be because it's a moving target is the ABC.

It's based on overtime and debt who's pay, as they as we proceed through the year, so that number does move a little bit.

Okay.

Okay.

Thank you for that explanation.

You're welcome.

So when you said what we uh what uh we know um give the plan 14%.

Was it 14 last year?

Fourty and a half.

14 and a half, and this year is you're asking sixteen and a half.

Sorry, but we're not asking for that.

That's already in the contract.

That's in the I'm sorry, I didn't I misspoke.

Okay.

Yeah, well what's that what's that uh number?

What's that sixteen point six mean in numbers?

That's a percent of the pay.

So it's the total percent of pay is what the county puts into the plan.

Right, that's it.

Yeah, just a little bit.

All public service, sorry.

You got any questions?

Keep going, Kim.

Well, okay.

Um, that's kind of summary of the statement.

Items on the method, and so since you satisfied the ADC and three of the last five years, no repeated specification was required to be state this year.

So that's that's good news.

Um, and then looking forward to the next year, uh, for the benefit plan, we said there's something that's the ABC must be met in order to not have to present next year on behalf of the benefit plan, uh, remediation.

So uh pension plan actually uh met it's three of the last four years, uh, benefit and just to a lot of four years, but we want to say that that's the last percent and on the uh the far right call that uh these pages show um the second row kind of shows the estimated contribution that we think might come in based on the other day, 2020 April.

We kind of estimate somewhere around the two point one two million, but it's just two percent of April, plus uh approximately two hundred and ninety-two thousand dollars on other sources and uh that happened historically, and so we can do that.

So, is it moving?

I think that's where the actual dollars coming in.

The agency won't change, but how much is coming in the year that they will move as the orders progress?

Well, that's something we can't just come on by the better, and uh, how forward or are you satisfied that you can do that?

Okay, we've got a number of but for the benefit plan the agency is a hundred fifty seven thousand dollars and not only you think only about 102,000 dollars, and then your market can't benefit the internet, and then we've got a fact factory.

So they were using 2026 ADC maybe shorter about an additional supplemental uh copy of these investments.

Now, if I'm remembering correctly last year when you came in front of us, it was a little bit of a kind of sounding an alarm because we just you know we kind of had to make sure that we were uh making everyone whole.

Uh it seems like you the tone has changed a little bit.

Do you think we are out of the woods?

I mean, obviously it always is one of those that we can have to continue to keep an eye on it, but do you think as far as the fund itself, uh how how do you think it's positioned moving forward?

Great question, uh good question.

So, well funded, eighty percent funded is a very good percentage, uh but we'll say that the investment markets have a lot of that heavy looking funding percentage of that market.

So, to the extent of changes in the market of the market, um, we would think we'd want to continue to fund the plan in case that long-term expectation is not that short-term funding.

And so I would say we and once we continue making that APC, uh I don't know that now, so it's probably kind of kind of backed off, but eighty percent funded is still uh a good position.

Well, now and that was the question I had.

I know you had made the comment that we weren't gonna have to provide a suppl uh a supplement to uh the investment that we're already making.

Do you I mean do you think that's sustainable?

I mean, because the reality is, or would it be something where because am I wrong?

Did we not last year look at where we kind of had a multi year plan for supplements each year?

I mean, are we worried about back slipping?

Because for me, I'm thinking forward, we don't know what the lay of the land is.

I mean, next year, but certainly beyond I mean, how how comfortable do you feel in the sustainability of this plan?

Uh because it just uh for me what what throws me off is I just I said last year it was really just kind of like oh we've we've got to get something moving, and I'm thrilled that the tone is more comfortable.

I want to make sure that we're not being too laxed and all of a sudden we find ourselves having to make a huge investment when we don't necessarily have those revenues coming in.

How much do we contribute to contribute to conditions to start this?

So one of the responsibility quite as good as we have that, how did that impact the L SR?

Nick, great Nick, great questions.

You know, we we when we started this last year, we did have this multi-year, and I and Terry's looking it up now.

It seemed like we contributed three hundred plus thousand to the fund.

Do you remember was that about right?

I believe so.

And and that number was going to grow each year.

Wasn't it?

I mean, I think we kind of and that's what I was remembering.

That was kind of where my line of questioning is Lord, I don't want to spend money we don't have to because we don't know what's coming down the pike, but at the same time, what I don't want to happen is us get caught in alerts and us have to make a much more significant investment because we didn't follow the plan that was laid out originally.

I think we we followed what we were advised to follow last year.

We go ahead.

That's what I remember.

Um, based on what Kevin has told us of going up from 14.5 to 16 percent, if you look up at the screen there on yours, if we are off the INPRS NOWS, if there's a green check mark there.

Right.

So in 2026, PBD, which Kevin is thinking that we're going to be very, very close, he thinks we might get there on our own, so there should be a green check mark there.

So we may not have to contribute this year.

Is that that would that I'm gonna let Kevin who's uh four years wheelance for one of the five for the pension plan?

Uh that's the one that we will have to do.

Maybe just fairly fast without a supplemental contribution.

The benefit plan, however, we have to go back to the short fees, that one being still contribution, not money.

Um, and if we can get around that, if somebody wants to look at quarter by quarter to see how both are uh 180 or 55,000 on the you know, um since we we got into this pickle, um what's changed on the pension board?

Have you done anything different on how you're moving forward?

Because I, you know, I mean you've been working it for a year now, and we we're we've got a green check because of the markets have done well, but have you done any policy changes within to uh not put us, you know, uh uh further steer clear from from the X red X?

Well, on that note, there are a few things we can do.

One is no really what you what have you done?

I mean, or have you done anything, or is it you know, you you really haven't done a whole lot of changes because everything was good before you I don't know.

Well, it wasn't terrible report, right?

The thing that happened was there was a change in state statute, and they went back five years.

And if you didn't have a green check mark, three of the five years, and you had to report to IMPRS, and if you didn't present the remediation plan to them, they could step in and take your funds, which we did not want to say, we want to be able to maintain our own plan.

Um, so one thing that we do is COA.

Uh, as an action item, so we're gonna every year by the board, and it's uh something that we have routinely voted down every year for the retirees.

So the retirees have been the biggest victim of the plan not being funded as it should have.

Um, I was in uh, at least one, it was followed.

It would go back to Eric Williams' term as uh pension board um chairman.

I don't remember if he was achieved that the sheriff was fine, but it would go back to his tenure, share the cycles.

Um the main thing here is that the board for the uh contract committee for the sheriff's office, we took action several years ago with not for the the CDA that we are currently acting on, but the one before we started to write in smaller increments, something that was powerful for for the whole county, we started to do one and a half or two percent of pay.

Um, I think it was maybe five or six years ago, you were only paying seven percent of pay.

Um, so we started to write those into the contract, but in the middle of trying to get us up closer to where we think we need to be, which would be maybe in the high teens or low twenties, the statute kicks in, and we were presented with the dilemma that we had the last couple of years, and we had on having to write a remediation plan if you had to present the INPRS.

So we have taken some steps, it's just um you can't do it fast enough, unless you have a coffee can very somewhere in the backyard that has about ten million dollars in the end of the are you saying you do, Tom?

Yeah, good coffee can.

That's all.

Um so the question I was gonna ask I'm not very familiar with defined benefit plans of used to the 401ks and et cetera.

But um, first of all, do the deputies have the option to convert their contribution or the contribution that's been made for them into a 401k or something at a later point in time.

No, that's not an option okay now.

I didn't think I'm not sure uh I'd have to reread the statute of pension.

I'm not sure that that's yeah, I didn't I didn't think that it probably did, but I just wanted to ask that question.

But um so the board, when you guys are, do you have that fiduciary responsibility to actually select the funds that are going to be going into for the investment?

We do.

We contract with a uh company called Mariner.

Uh our contacts are over here in Cincinnati.

Um they come to the quarterly meetings with us and they present something very similar to what Kevin presents.

We rely on them to help us make our investments.

That's what we contribute.

Um, this year we had about 62.4 million in assets.

Thank you.

Um, and Kevin can attest to this, um, there's a lot of pressure on other shares' plans to have them uh reduce the plan assumption to six and a quarter or six and a half percent, and what that does is that that increases your bill that increases what you would have to put into the plan to help us make ABC.

We have maintained seven and a quarter percent.

That means that we expect Mariner to get seven and a quarter percent every single year for us, and they have done that uh since we contracted with them roughly 10 years of the minute.

Seven and a quarter percent of the plan is pretty pretty wealthy for us.

So so you actually uh as a board member, you're presented, you are you presented different funds to choose from, and then to look at the bad ones and throw those out.

Or if I chime in.

So I I do sit sit on it with him, okay, and what what happens is they come and he he goes through the lineup with the pension board, and and no di I know a lot of the details because I'm in this field, right?

But I stay pretty quiet during it and let him do his thing.

He's he's making suggestions to the board and then the board approves their suggestions, right?

And so he's not giving them, I mean, he he gives them some options, but he leads with his suggestion, right?

And the prudent thing to do in these scenarios for pension boards is to listen to the advice that they're giving, right?

But he's not he's not opening up a massive smorgasbord of investments and saying, you know, Noah Rob, will you guys pick pick these out?

He's le even when it comes down to making changes, right?

So uh I hope that answers your question, unless like it's it's not like um an actively traded discretionary type of big tree.

Yeah, yeah.

So yeah, and I I get it.

That's I think normally how most retirement committees will operate or anything, you know, major.

Um so I guess where I'm going with this is that it's obvious that we are benefited the county is benefited when the stock market does well.

Okay, um and so uh how many members do we have on that now?

Because I know we changed that last year, just one.

She's just me.

Yeah, because it seems to me that that's an important part to protect our vested interest as well to make sure that you know all of those accounts, you know, funds and stuff that we get into.

I'm assuming there's a a list of probably the size, probably twenty five or thirty different accounts or funds that you're involved in, but um so I that's just where I'm coming from is that I'd like to make sure that we do have good representation.

That's saying just you know, maybe we need more than just even one person.

Um plan establishment is the end of the council, beyond pension for the we thought it's appropriate.

Yeah, all the one seats to the council just to have the visibility to be speaking of as well as to prevent uh the clear disconnect that was the current that it's passed between the county council not knowing what the sheriff was attention to, so having uh the council on the board would be a link to make sure that the council's going on, you and also just coming here once a year, like you're doing.

Well, and it's not just having that link, but it's also having, and I'm not speaking, you know, for Joe, I'm talking about just as a council that strong voice to be able to say, you know what, I'm watching this fund over here, and they've gone three quarters now in the red, so we need to look at, you know, make sure we change that one around and go for this one instead, that kind of picking.

Yeah, it's highly complicated though, because uh like I have completely different.

Look, I do this for a living and I have completely different investment strategy than Mariner does, right?

And if you compare it like pensions are invested in hardly a conservative growth portfolio, right?

If you looked at that nine and something percent, looks good in comparative pensions, but that's like a third of what uh what you would do sitting in an S P 500 fund.

So on one hand, if we got in there and got involved in that, it would be highly frustrating because uh they're they're investing more for protection from huge huge downsides than they are to participate in the growth.

So most of those, then what they do is blend it so that you've got you know very conservative, you get some things that are more radical and you get you blend it.

And then also, I mean, unless you flip the discretion over to tell Mariner to say, hey, you don't have to come to us and you're it to get approval from us, then you can't change the strategy because they have to they have to be able to be super blended and balanced to protect from that.

The only way to do that is to flip that, and that would be that would be fairly un unprecedented.

Yeah, yeah.

So i if they have to wait until they come or schedule an emergency meeting to get in a pension board approval, it's very hard to trade, and you have to trade altered defensively that way, right?

I mean, I I get frustrated because of how I think, but I understand how the rules operate and it would be irritating irritating as more of our board members got on and tried to dictate that.

But like I get what you're saying, Tom, but that's the complicated nature of investing pension plans and retirement benefits.

I'm saying you probably have a lot more visibility to uh say this plan and do any other, I mean most of the police, we have no idea what's going on that plan.

Public record, obviously, but uh I think it's a unique arrangement we have.

I haven't talked to the sheriffs that have council members on the pension, or I'm proud of it, I think I'm glad we did it.

I think that's the right thing to do, I think it's a company.

So uh I've got some numbers in front of me.

We contributed 375,000 in November of 24 to the plan.

We followed that in December of 25 with 265,000 to the plan.

So it looks like we're in this November December time frame as far as a potential ask, and right now it could be zero.

And we'll know you'll know I guess in a few months, huh?

It's a potentially zero for the attention planning, benefit plan of looking at light and non-zero.

Yeah.

But at the beginning of year forecast, maybe the five thousand,000.

That could be more than that.

Yeah.

Okay.

Do you have anything else?

You can you can keep going if you're if you're we got a couple pages here.

So we like that I know we we've run way over time.

No, no, you have it.

This is the this is the end of the meeting.

One thing I I would be more than willing to do is I would volunteer for the entire council to look at um not only Kevin's presentation and the quarterly presentation that he makes to the board, but also I'll send you what Mariner has out of it and if you guys would like to see that.

You know I do have a question about Mariner, and to Joe's point.

You know, they they make a recommendation, you know, and the board either adopts it and they probably adopt it 99.999999% of the time.

Do they ever I think I made a comment at the last meeting because they you guys looked at me and I said I made the comment too.

That's not how I would view things but it's it's it's not in your best interest to get in a a debate over what who you're paying and have have RFP'd out and and vetted to to debate on that.

And I'll I'll summarize that with if I lose money in my comp, I only have to explain that to my wife but if if I lose a couple million dollars of the pigeon board mode I have to explain that to the 120 active some 115 retirees and I don't want to do that.

So we rely on Mariner guidance in those meetings.

They're much more knowledgeable than I could ever claim to be um we we do say no occasionally and there's some things my friends do that we're in right now that the sheriff I talked about this yesterday.

I would like to get out of some of what they have us in but we're more stuck with what we have on a couple of those right now.

I don't want to bore you with all that but um we we do lean on their guidance and we sure we don't always say no but the majority I would say one more thing um we will send out innovation to the mission board meetings you are always welcome to attend any and all weekends and with this one position on the board and talk about the council circuit the entirety council is well okay thank you thank you for that.

John do you are you looking at just the budget or you looking at the actual remediation plan that they laid out last year.

The numbers I just yeah uh I a little birdie told me in my ear it's a good it's a good bird.

This is what we appropriated.

Uh okay I just I I I wasn't sure because I was just interested I may have to dig through my old notes and see what what we had originally projected as a potential I I mean that's what we appropriate we put we probably appropriated because that's what we were asked you know to to get us the green check in our slide or two Kevin go for it.

Okay now so we can cover the try to reject for just the plan.

This kind of speaks to the uh risk appetite maybe if that's the thing that we were talking about a little bit earlier.

How much risk you're taking in your portfolio versus cash contributions coming in and ramifications is assumptions like that.

I will the prior slide has a number of assumptions we should highlight that as a built off of 2026 valuation and then the number of new assumptions but I'll I'll skip to the chase here um this shows a projection of the pension plan contributions as a presentation payroll and so what we've got is the black line represents kind of the current contract which is at the 16% of payroll plus around two hundred and ninety two thousand dollars for these other sources of residence and historically contributed to the plan.

We assume that grows two and a half percent uh per year uh in the future year so that's approximately 18% of pay off coming in sorry we assume it goes three percent that's about eighteen percent pay coming in the way we just have to get no new contributions.

What the blue line represents is the computed agency.

So when I walk in and say here's the ADC for this year if all functions are that you think it's gonna follow the blue line if we make a contribution that's exactly equal to the L I can say intricate this this year and we contribute that exactly how I am and then the following year is a good uh this blue line so you can see the blue line next year there's a little bit of space above the black line we think there might be a short fall in 247 um if the weather 2054 looks good.

Okay.

I think it's only two thirty and three to twenty three, if you see if there's a little bit of space there, and if the county we're going to continue going upward with time, is that might introduce uh less risk in that plan.

Um, that's when it would be essentially not only to do all the heavy late things we could eventually get into a position where polar could be reconsidered really highly and um so I mean it looks good at the next year or two uh based on the current forecast, but I think there'll be it in a second or two.

Um concerns for uh good.

You might be thinking, well, okay, flat black line, great.

We we split it this year's contribution, but that's as a percentage of pay.

So we expect payroll to go up.

That means the dollar change, the price prices go up as well.

So these are the same scenarios on the next page, just doing instead of percentages of pay, two dollar, so I can see those turning upwards.

We just want to make sure you're aware of the dollar now.

Um, assets for liabilities, this is hard to do.

That's interesting, because we we contributed 375 in 24, and we contributed less in 25.

Yeah.

And this year we're going to contribute even less.

And so like we did go from like 14 and a half percent to a sixty and half percent.

So there wasn't a one and a half percent of pay and increase till then.

Yeah, but that's the difference.

Hopefully the supplemental is like we'll decrease or go away.

Okay.

Um, here's where we start talking about age and risk, and so you know, what would the projections uh ADC with 20%?

If there's an investment shock for one, so it's in 2026 this year, investments lost ten, so you get a minus ten percent return, and then next year you have a seven and a quarter percent return each year thereafter.

You computed a C would jump from the blue line up to the black line, so you can see years and years of over five, seven, five to seven percent of payroll being uh necessary to make up that difference for that one yearly, so hitting a positive stuff percent often less percent, and everything's back to investment.

So it's kind of speaking to you, there's still a lot of risk, and there's a on that investment here, things kind of work a lot different.

Uh, and this is the only reason why you might continue to be bucked on those contributions, but uh similarly the discount rate if we're to drop that assumption from seven and a quarter and looking at that a little more conservatively and value things of six to a half percent, but now the cash contribution uh needs to be involved to make up that seven five percent, seven five basics on this difference in the investment.

I think it's more than that now, but um, you know, it wouldn't be nine as much of the difference in the overall dollar, and that's it as opposed to the blue line of the black line for the other five plus percent of the contribution, if we're gonna drop that fifty calculation, C plus and then return, uh half less personal with less than the cash contribution would be higher.

But you know, you know what's that ratio?

You you probably you I'm sure you do too.

Uh, you know, bonds to stock.

Is it more like fifty-fifty on this?

Uh since it's conservative, you know.

Yeah, so like fifty-five, forty-five.

I don't know actually what it is.

Uh, so probably no way, but but like invert it, but invert it.

So we typically you say seventy-thirty, you mean like seventy equities, thirty bonds, flip it.

Yeah.

They don't have seventy percent in, and I don't think it's seventy percent in equities.

Uh I don't know.

It's approaching that.

So there's yeah, so they must so you're using like a lot of value value-based funds, and they talked about that.

It'd be yeah, value-value-based funds, not growth funds.

Yeah.

So it's gotta be to get nine point one.

Yeah, yeah.

You'll have to find the uh target appetite allocation where you're trying to get the seven out of four percent.

And then over the long term, we only want to get every year, even though you've got some fixed income, a lot of pen week and then different classes of like the year, and then all that.

That's the yeah, so sorry.

If you looked at from the performance, so seventy-thirty on an equity to bond ratio would feel like um like a moderate growth portfolio, but when you score equities don't score the same.

So some score like a ninety plus to a hundred and some score in like the seventies and eighties.

And so a lot of their a lot of their equity funds are scoring on the lower side.

So uh yeah, I don't talk in equity to bond ratio the same way, but yeah.

I'll explain it to you after more.

Yeah, I got I got the gist.

Kevin, officers, yes?

I didn't have to get energy before we four feet.

Uh so uh maybe we'll see you in November, December for an appropriation request, and maybe not.

Yeah.

Robin, don't sell yourself short.

You got a very nice grass.

You might be interviewing with Joey in the wealth management department whenever you're collecting that pension.

I don't think so.

Alright, thank you guys, appreciate you guys.

Thank you so much.

All right, that concludes um our agenda items.

Uh our next um is there any public comment?

Uh our next meeting is next Wednesday here in this room at 3 p.m.

So if there's no other business become become before this council, I will adjourn us.