Up to the left or any one up.

There's a big vent there in a wall.

That's where all the water will pump down.

Gotcha.

I love that stadium, man.

I played in it.

It was.

I remember sitting sitting in smoke, a layer of smoke, but just smoke over the that was the only stadium I could dunk in.

We needed to get it.

I mean it's a monster.

It's bigger than a meeting.

It's bigger than a poll bar.

I mean, it's not like a tree house.

This meeting is being transcribed and summarized.

Okay.

I'll send it to you.

If they got the permit, to the or can be located.

I bet you they're inside that.

Oh, I don't know what that property is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, they've got to know they've got to know what's coming.

Because it's just obnoxious.

Okay, we ready?

No, I'm not wide.

Not quite.

Are you ready, Cassie?

When it rolls over, we'll get going.

On the minute.

Okay, three o'clock.

You ready to go?

Okay.

We've got spirit.

I don't know if anybody's out there enjoying our spirit, but we've got it.

Uh oh.

Is that me?

Oh yeah.

My phone's on silent for the record, but evidently my computer is not.

Okay, so sorry about that.

I'd like to call the July 2nd, 2026 meeting of the Area Plan Commission of Evansville and Vandenberg County to order.

Will the Secretary please call the roll?

Ms.

Cabell?

Here.

Ms.

Freeman?

Mr.

Hieronymus?

Mr.

Hooper?

Here.

Mr.

Nix?

Here.

Mr.

Pecky?

Here.

Mr.

Shetler?

Here.

Mr.

Walters.

Here.

And Ms.

Stevens.

Here, thank you.

And for the record, Miss Freeman's getting ready to walk in a thing.

So I'm going to see her.

She'll be coming in.

Okay, is there a motion to approve the June memorandum?

So move.

Second.

Okay, we have a motion and a second.

Will the Secretary please call the roll for that?

Mr.

Hooper.

Yes.

Mr.

Nix?

Yes.

Mr.

Pecke?

Yes.

Mr.

Shatler?

Yes.

Mr.

Walters.

Yes.

Ms.

Cabill?

Yes.

Miss Stevens.

Yes, thank you.

Please uh let the record show that the June memorandum is approved.

And I would also like to thank Bill Petkey for uh chairing that meeting.

Thank you.

Great job.

Okay.

So go ahead.

Hit it.

Who's hitting it?

Cassie?

Joan?

Hit it.

For rezonings, it takes five affirmative votes to recommend approval of a petition or five negative votes to recommend denial of a petition.

In the event that there are not five votes, it still goes forward to the city council or county commission with no recommendation.

The Area Plan Commission has established the following guidelines to be followed for both rezonings and subdivisions.

Mr.

London will begin each presentation as each case is called the petitioner or and the remonstrators who intend to testify will please stand and be sworn in at the beginning of the process.

All testimony must begin by stating your name and address for the record.

The petitioner or person appearing for the case being heard will have a maximum of ten minutes for the presentation of evidence, statements, and arguments in support of the petition.

Then there will be a total of ten minutes for the remonstrators.

This testimony will be followed by a five-minute rebuttal period for the petitioner as a summation of the case.

Any request for additional time must be voted on by the board.

A timer will be used to help enforce the time limits.

Both petitioners and remonstrators should organize their testimony to adhere to these guidelines.

More than one remonstrator to speak, the group should meet out in the hall before the Area Plan Commission discussion of the agenda item to coordinate the information presented so that each speaker addresses a different issue of concern.

In order to expedite the meeting, remonstrators should refrain from repeating the same concerns already expressed by another speaker about a particular development proposal.

The Plan Commission appreciates the cooperation of all participants with these guidelines.

If the commissioners have questions about issues we feel have not been sufficiently addressed by the applicant, we have the option to request a continuance until the information needed to sufficiently answer our concerns is available or provided by the applicant or technical staff.

Okay, the next regularly scheduled meeting of the Area Plan Commission will be Thursday, August 6, 2026 at 3 p.m.

in room 301 of the Civic Center Complex.

The city rezoning considered today will be heard at the City Council meeting on Monday, July 27, 2026 at 5 30 p.m.

The following petitions will not be heard this evening.

I mean today.

I like to change that.

Sorry.

Docket number REZ-2026-003 R-2026-02 2713 Jeanette Avenue, Ronald Straw.

Also docket number REZ-2026-004, R-2026-03, 2708 and 2712 Jeanette Avenue, also Robert Straw.

These petitions will be continued to the August 6, 2026 meeting.

So we'll move on to our first agenda item.

All right, as to all matters today before the commission, do you swear or affirm the testimony you will give is true and accurate, so help you God?

Thank you.

All right.

First up is docket number REZ-2026-015, R-2026-12, 1307 and 1311 Henning Avenue.

Brent Jackson is requesting to rezone property located on the east side of U.S.

Highway 41 South of Washington Avenue from R2 to AG with UDC for agricultural as stated on the application.

UDC submitted at filing narrowly limits use of the property.

Only the following uses would be allowed.

Use group 17, agricultural operations, crop and tree farming, and use group 18, animal and poultry raising, livestock grazing.

All other uses typically allowed in an AG zone would be prohibited regarding development.

No commitments have been included.

This site is located in a solid area of residential uses, exclusively zoned R2.

Many of the homes in this area were constructed around 1920 to 1930, and the two residences previously occupying these lots are shown on sandboard maps as early as 1928.

Single family use continued until each structure was raised in 2015 and 2017.

The lots remained vacant green space until they were sold off at a sheriff's tax sale shortly thereafter.

The applicant purchased both of these lots and began to establish agricultural use without permits.

ABC's staff received a complaint through the building commission regarding this property in September of 2024.

A report of overground weeds was sent to the code enforcement staff, and upon inspection, they observed unpermitted structures.

They were later informed by the applicant that the overgrown lots were being used as a pasture for chickens.

APC staff researched and inspected the property and confirmed the unpermitted accessory buildings, large raised garden beds, and chickens kept on site with no apparent primary use or structure.

Contact with the applicant confirmed their primary residence is located six slots to the south from the site.

The applicant was given several options for moving forward.

One, discontinue the agricultural use and remove all unpermitted structures.

Two, relocate the actual uses to the property where the primary residence is located and legally permit as an accessory use.

The agricultural use continued when no action to bring the property into compliance, eventually resulting in additional citations and fines.

A separate citation was also issued for storage of junk on the property observed at a follow-up inspection.

The applicant then requested a jury trial to contest the fines, which took place on March 25th of 2026.

The jury decided in favor of the Area Plan Commission.

The applicant is now requesting to rezone the property to AG to legally establish and continue the agricultural uses.

The 2035 future land use map recommends this site for residential uses.

The request to rezone the property at AG to legally establish crop farming and poultry raising as the primary use.

This site would not be consistent with the comprehensive plan.

Should this request be approved, the use and site conditions must still comply with all other applicable rules and regulations of any other local entities such as animal conimal care and control.

This is a request to rezone the property located at 1307 and 1311 Henning Avenue from R2 to AG with the UDC to legally establish unpermitted aquacultural uses such as poultry raising and crop farming currently in violation of the zoning code.

All right.

Well, everyone who's here to speak on this petition for it or against it, please raise your right hand.

You swear or affirm the testimony you will give is true and accurate.

So if you got I do.

Thank you.

Could you please state your name and address for the record?

My name is Brent Jackson, 1401 Henning Avenue.

I am the petitioner in this case.

Okay.

Did you have anything to add to Mr.

London's report?

I do.

I don't know if this is the appropriate time.

I have an updated use and development commitment.

Yeah.

Is it just one?

Is it?

I mean, you have copies for us.

I do.

Yeah, sure.

Okay.

You can just give it to Mr.

Shetler.

He can pass them around.

All right.

Who else among this board needs a copy?

Anyone else?

I don't think so.

If I can ask what changed to the UDC?

Oh, yeah.

I'm saying I'm sorry, couldn't you say that again?

That was Mr.

Wall.

What changed in the UDC submitted?

Yeah, we're we're everybody's just about to get one.

So let me read it.

Well, let me let me let me let Mr.

Jackson describe it.

Go ahead.

Alright.

Hey, um, so after reading the site review by uh Ron, I realized that some of this appears that uh there might be an opportunity for a commercial agricultural operation to exist there, and that is not my goal.

My goal has only been to use this as an R2 residence, like the rest of the neighbors in the neighborhood use it, and nothing more for personal use.

So I added the uh use group 17.

I changed it to agricultural operations that take no more than 80 percent of the footprint of the property, and then use group 18 animal and poultry raising that limits the use to no more than five hens per parcel and zero roosters and follow all animal control ordinances that apply to any uh R2 residents, all other uses typically allowed in an AG zone would be prohibited.

Okay, good.

So I wanted to update that to make sure we were clear that I'm not looking for some sort of out or change in the rules that I follow and the rest of my neighbors follow.

Okay, thank you for that.

Does this, uh Mr.

London?

Does this no idea?

We're just seeing it now, so okay.

I mean, but does it narrow the scope in your restrictive?

Yeah, but I don't want to put you on the spot.

Are there questions for the petitioner?

Is this for personal use or is it are you making revenue off of I am I?

Just curious on what what your intended or what what the end result comes to.

Right.

So uh let me back up and give you a little bit of more history of the property that's not listed here.

I am the president of the president's neighborhood association.

When these two properties came available, uh I went and knocked on the doors of the neighbors to ask them if they were interested in buying the properties, and none of them were.

I'm five doors down from these properties, and I decided to use it and buy them myself off of the Vandenberg County Commissioner's auction.

Uh since then, I've put a garden and a yard barn and even a chicken coop on the property for my own personal use.

Uh none none of the vegetables and none of the eggs and none of the hens have ever been sold.

Okay, so this is just like an extension of a yard that happens to not be a butting your yard.

Right.

But I on the same block, same subdivision.

So we want a garden, you want some chickens.

That's right.

Okay.

So are there any remonstrators in this petition?

We're a little early for that, but I didn't see any hands go up.

Uh, do you have any support anything from your neighbors?

Yes.

I have another item.

I didn't even know that, but here we go.

I segued you right on in.

Yeah, last one.

Several times.

Okay, go ahead, Mr.

Jackson, describe what you're passing out.

Sure.

So this is a petition from all the abutting and nearby neighbors.

Um I've been developing this yard, this garden for four years now.

And so a lot of the neighbors know what I've been up to over there.

Um and then it was discovered I didn't get my first citation until uh late in 2024.

In 2025, I went around to all the neighbors to make sure we were all on the same page.

Uh since I already knew them all, uh it was pretty easy to get them to sign the petition.

Um, so I you know the this this property was turned in by the building commission.

It was never turned in by a neighbor.

None of the neighbors have a problem with a yard barn and a garden next door to them.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Other questions for Mr.

Jackson.

I I've got another one.

If you see the screen up there, are these pictures accurate of what it looks like now?

These are from code enforcement, but right.

So that was in 2024.

What you're seeing is you see a mowed property up to the fence.

Inside the fence is where the chickens were, and all that got mowed down a few months later.

That was only left to grow for them to have a little bit of vegetation to not only conceal themselves, but to have a little natural food.

Okay.

Are there more pictures from code enforcement?

Um, these are ABC pictures.

Oh, I'm sorry, AP, I'm sorry, ABC.

Yeah.

These are APC pictures.

Okay, and the date on that is the 24th.

And then the most recent ones we've had are January or this year.

And you see the trailer that's in the picture there.

The neighbor to the north was having their house re-roofed, and I gave permission to the roofers to come put their big trailer in the front yard.

Because there's really not a lot of room in this neighborhood.

We don't have standard driveways like you do in other neighborhoods.

Our street is our parking.

Yeah.

So they wanted to keep this trailer off the street, and uh I offered it.

I didn't know that code enforcement was coming by to take a picture on that day.

So it looks kind of bad there.

Yeah.

Okay, thank you.

Other questions?

Good questions.

All right.

There are no remonstrators.

Um, so I would entertain a motion to approve with the use and development.

Motion to approve.

Okay, thank you, Mr.

Walters.

Even from long distance, that guy is.

So with the with the use and development commitment that you that you will move forward to um city council.

As amended.

As amended.

So the UDC will have to be filed with the uh city clerk, the updated one within that time frame.

Um that's on our schedule.

So you understand that part?

Yeah.

Well, and if not, just call.

Let's go down there today.

Okay, very good.

Um, okay.

So with that, thank you, Mr.

Walters.

Is there a second?

Oh, we had a second.

Okay, thank you, Mr.

Shetler.

Uh go ahead and call the roll on that, Cassie.

Miss Freeman.

Hi, um, uh I've I'm looking at the petition here, and it's like the one folks are adjacent, but everybody else is across the street.

Um I'm kind of torn.

You got but you got the backside too, right?

There's a total of twenty-something signatures.

If you flip it over, my bad.

Okay.

Sorry, I should have mentioned that.

Also, I want you to let you know that, you know, I bought these properties out of goodwill.

And to later find out that I can't build on them, that I can't have a garden on them, that I can't have livestock on them, that even if I let it go back to Mother Nature, in all four cases, I'm getting cited.

There is absolutely nothing I can do with the properties besides rezoning them.

Or pay taxes, you can pay taxes.

And I have been paying taxes on the properties and the yard barn.

The yard barn I'm not supposed to have.

Yeah, well, the yard barn would be I've been paying for five years taxes on it.

I don't know.

So I don't get that.

What you can do is build a house.

Yeah.

No, they're too small.

I can't even build a house.

No, you can build a residence.

You could build a residence.

On a 35 by 75 foot lot.

Yes.

Okay.

Well, that's new then.

Because when I bought them, that did not exist.

No, no.

Subdivided parcels.

They've been buildable lots since whenever that subject.

No, you don't have to build two residents.

Well, I mean, that's that's kind of over the top, don't you think?

To have a garden.

The garden's not the problem.

The yard barn was the use to have a yard bar.

And the use of the primary uses problem.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

Okay.

You want us to vote on the garden?

All right.

Your application today, right?

Yes, okay.

Miss Freeman, it's a yeah.

Well, I would yeah, I'm sorry, I didn't realize there was the other side.

Um, I mean, we don't have any remonstrators here.

Um, but apparently you do need more information on what you can and can't do on your lot uh on your lots, but I'll I'll vote yes.

Mr.

Hooper?

Yes.

Mr.

Nick?

No.

Mr.

Peggy.

I think this is a no-brainer.

This I know we got some rules that try to prevent other things, but this is something I think would be good for the neighborhood.

I think it's evidence that no one's here to oppose it, and none of the neighbors uh had called.

Believe me, they will.

So I vote yes.

Mr.

Shatler?

Yes.

Mr.

Walters.

Yes.

Miss Cabill?

Yes.

Miss Stevens.

I vote yes as well.

Um, I you know, I don't like spot zoning, and that's a little bit, but the use and development commitment, the fact that your neighbors have all are the the closest neighbors have you know supported this.

Um I vote yes, so show it seven yes, one no, and zero abstentions, and it will move forward with the recommendation for approval at city council.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

All right, next up is docket number REZ-2026-017, R-2026-14 2828 Mount Vernon Avenue.

R layman and Sun Consulting on behalf of Larry Rogers is requested to rezone property located at the southeast corner of Mount Vernon and North Barker Avenues from C4 to M2 with the use and development commitment for a wood shop and sales with parking lot as stated on the application.

UDC submitted at filing narrowly limits use of the property.

Only the following uses would be allowed.

Use group five, business and professional offices, use group 10, carpenter shop, use group 15, manufacturing of wood products, assembly, packaging, processing of wood or lumber.

All other uses typically allowed in an M2 zone would be prohibited regarding development.

No commitments have been included.

The site is located in an area mostly made up of residential uses with nearby commercial uses concentrated around major intersections to both the east and west.

The immediate vicinity includes residential uses, zone R2, and a legal nonconforming resident zone C4.

Several lower intensity commercial uses.

At that time, a gas station occupied the northwest corner of the property, shown on sandborne maps as early as 1927.

A large building was later constructed for a short Saveway market around 1950.

The southern portion of the property remained residential until 1970 when it was rezoned to C4 to accommodate an addition to the market.

The building was then used for a medical clinic beginning in the late 1980s, but was eventually re uh raised in 2013.

The lot has remained vacant since that time.

Yeah, I can recently purchased the property and is now requesting to rezone the lot to M2 to allow a wood shop.

The business will include processing and manufacturing of wood products with retail sales, which requires an industrial zoning designation.

The 2035 future land use map recommends a site for commercial uses.

This request to rezone the property to M2 for the proposed woodworking shop would not be completely consistent with the comprehensive plan.

The plan supports the commercial focused aspect of operations, the office sales and carpentry.

However, wood processing and wood products and facturing activities would be inconsistent with a historical use of the property and existing and existing character of the surrounding area.

Several revisions were noted at that time, which do not appear on this plan.

Green space setbacks are marked at the north, south, and west property lines.

However, there is no indication that grass will be installed in these areas.

Additionally, an industrial use directly adjacent to a residential use must provide a 20-foot unobstructed green space setback, but the size of the building as shown will only allow 10-foot.

Should this request be approved?

Variances will likely be required, especially if existing conditions are to remain.

In addition, the UDC could be modified to include development commitments that would maintain or reinforce an adequate buffer to protect the adjacent residential property, such as compliance with the required 20-foot green space setback or installation of a landscape buffer.

This is a request to resonate the property located at 2828 Mount Vernon Avenue from C4 to M2 with the UDC to allow construction of a new building for a business manufacturer of wood products.

Well, everyone who's here to speak on this petition for order against it, please raise your right hand.

You swear affirm the testimony you will give is true and accurate to help you got.

Yes.

I do.

Okay, somebody, yeah.

All right.

It's been a while.

Yeah, I know.

And who are you?

And where's your address?

1200 North Red Bank, 1220 North Red Bank Road.

Don't even know my own address.

Anyway, uh the A team is in Florida, and the B team is here today with uh Mr.

Rogers to uh allow him to uh construct a wood uh retail facility and shop uh in this neighborhood.

Uh this property has been vacant as said for since 2013.

Yeah, so a long long time.

And uh so other uses evidently have not been worthwhile from an economic standpoint for one thing.

Um so what we are looking to do is to uh get this rezoned with a very narrow UDC that would allow only his operation, so if uh that ever changed then the property was sold.

Uh any other use would have to come back and reformat the UDC if it wasn't used for the very limited things that were allowed.

Um, on the site plan, uh we have put the building on the back part of the lot, the back in this case being to the east, uh, which would move it away from the house that's close.

Uh, to say this is surrounded by residential uses is a little bit of a stretch because it's commercial on three sides and residence basically, just on the north side of it.

Um, also in the description of the adjacent properties, the the very adjacent building, the little strip center.

Uh, majority of that is a pinball uh arcade.

Uh so that's uh a little bit impactful on the neighborhood also.

Uh having said all that.

Uh Mr.

Rogers is very aware of uh the concern for sound, and he is going to insulate his building with foam, spray foam, which is a very uh sound dampening material, and all interior walls will be insulated as well using conventional methods.

The uh machine operation part of this will be in the center of the building, which would shield it by a third of the building towards the residential side, and the building is in the back part of the lot, as I mentioned, which puts it away from the residence and closer to the residential garage behind the house next door.

Mr.

Rogers is a veteran and desires to expand his business into this property, which has been sitting vacant and not doing much good for anybody, and making it into a uh hopefully profitable and uh good use for this location, and I would be available for any questions.

Mr.

Rogers was here if there's any technical questions about his business.

Alright, thank you, Mr.

Lahman.

Um, are there questions for the petitioner?

Mr.

Lehman or Mr.

Rogers.

Um I like, are you it just says wood products?

What are we what are we talking about?

Wood products.

Are we talking furniture?

And Mr.

Rogers, go ahead and state your name and address for the record.

My name is Larry Rogers, 9205 Ham Court, Evansville.

Uh so we take uh just dimensional lumber like two by fours and two by sixes, and we make trims.

So we make trims, baseballs, crown moldings, uh fireplace mantles, uh so small, small pieces.

We don't make any furniture.

Uh we we support Fernbachers and everybody else around here that I think that's where you should get your cabinets anyway.

But uh but yeah, we just make small trim.

I was just concerned about painting, finishing, you know, the all we do is is prime and then it goes to the customer and they put it in and they do the finished painting.

So the paint is just simply prime.

Okay, thank you.

We we do a lot of historical things for the riverside area.

Uh many times we'll get a part that says, can you match this?

Nobody can match it.

It's not a part you can go to a home center and buy.

Uh at a few times they've got four, five, eight, ten coats of paint on them, so we occasionally have to strip it down to get to the actual piece that we need to make.

Uh so we do occasionally have some paint stripping, but other than that, we don't have any other chemicals, uh, or just regular paint for primer.

So special specialized type of production.

Yeah, I I have no intention of competing with Lowe's or Home Depot or Minards or anybody like that.

I'm not gonna sell you two by four.

Uh it's just strictly uh specialty trims.

Thank you.

Okay.

Other questions?

Um, yeah, so I see a site plan, but I and I maybe seeing ridge lines or roof lines.

I don't see any are there no elevations or landscape plans for what you're doing in the green space?

I do have the elevations.

I'm not sure if they were included in the package.

It wasn't.

I didn't we didn't have those.

Yeah.

Uh it's it's uh Mr.

Rogers, could you come closer to the mic?

Oh, sorry.

That's okay.

Uh we do have the elevations.

I apologize, they're not included in your packet.

It's a uh 12-foot high structure with just a regular uh hip roof on the back and the side and a gable roof on the front.

Uh uh standard uh metal siding with uh decorative um uh, wingscoat stone around the front and around both sides in the back.

Okay, and have you already purchased the land or are you only purchasing it if you get this rezone?

I do own the land presentation.

Oh, yes.

Thank you.

Other questions?

I have a couple questions.

Um, what are your hours?

What were your what what will your hours be?

Uh typical hours are Tuesday through Friday, eight to five.

Okay, and then Saturday would be eight to noon.

We'd be closed Sunday and Monday, available by appointment for special needs.

Okay.

And then where are you now?

Where's your location?

Uh working mostly out of my garage and two other employees' garages.

Okay.

Well, this will be more efficient.

What I'm hoping it'll be much more.

And you may have answered this, apologize.

What what kind of it is it a retail or is it strictly like on a per-order basis?

Like you mentioned, you know, custom historic woodwork replication, custom knives and that jazz, but is this also a place where a customer uh somebody planning uh home renovation would maybe go into your shop and look around and get ideas?

Is it that kind of a retail spot?

Exactly.

Yes, yes.

About 50% of the building is retail.

Okay.

Uh originally when I purchased it, I was intending most of it to be retail with a small wood shop in the back, but just we we built the building around all the equipment that we need, and it just simply is about half of the building.

There will be some uh standard doorways, crown molding trim and uh stairs uh spindles, those kind of things that you can pick from as examples.

Okay, great, thank you.

Okay, other questions.

All right, are there remonstrators on this petition?

Okay.

Um you guys have a seat and we'll let you come back up and do a summation, sir.

Come on up and please state your name and address for the record.

My name is Wade Flake and I live at 417 North Berker.

I'm about seven or eight houses north of where this location is.

Okay, and I've got a bunch of questions, mostly rhetorical.

Roger's answered some of them, but uh I'm gonna read this off.

First, does the city of Evansville have a comprehensive plan?

How does this zoning change line up with that?

What are we looking at?

Is the request to put a manufacturing facility on the edge of a commercially zoned area with businesses that fits within a scope of what a neighborhood would use outside of this commercial zone area is completely surrounded by single family residences, a neighborhood?

The very first building to the south of this very location is a single-family residence.

This to my knowledge is a facility that will be adding noise to the area that the neighborhood does not need.

From what I understand, this will be a cabinet shop, and these gonna be a trim shop, which will be making a lot of fine particle wood dust.

How will the APC guarantee that a manufacturing operation like this will not negatively negatively impact the air quality operations or customer traffic in the area?

What kind of filtration system will they be using on this facility?

Will the doors always be closed, helping to keep the noise down?

Will this facility have sound deadening insulation?

Roger answered that one.

Are you going to allow outside storage?

Will the hours always be set to what we have call a day shift, or will they be working in the evening, weekends, and disturbing the neighborhood?

What performance standards of physical buffer requirements will be enforced to protect nearby commercial or residential properties from noise, dust, or odor?

Has site review done a traffic impact study.

If this gets rezoned, this is something I worry about too.

If this company does not make it, will the zoning allow other manufacturing facilities to move in after, or will the manufacturing designation revert to commercial?

And last, why is the commercial to manufacturing conversion necessary here instead of utilizing existing vacant industrial land elsewhere?

Okay.

Summarize and answer all those questions.

Thank you very much.

That's the only remonstration, right?

Nobody else here.

Okay.

Go ahead, Mr.

Lahman.

Yeah, Mr.

Flake is uh very good at uh describing his concerns, and we appreciate them.

Again, we feel like this is a small operation.

We feel like we've answered the insulation question.

Uh the dust collection question is automatically a requirement.

There's no way you can put dust in the air anywhere anymore.

And I'm sure he has dust collection uh equipment that will be, you know, meet compliance.

There's NFPA rules that be followed.

Uh, the fire marshal inspects things.

I mean, those types of things are very uh well regulated.

Speaking from experience, and uh so I'm not too concerned about that.

Um, the what happens next is relatively controlled by the UDC.

So they couldn't bring in a steel manufacturing building or you know, welding and stuff like that would not work with the current UDC.

They'd have to come back to this board and and discuss that.

Um, should have left me the list up here.

I'm not reading this.

I did not see you taking notes, so I wondered how you were going to do that.

Yeah, I was gonna say in the old days, maybe.

Physical buffer, there is a requirement for that, and I think uh uh Ron referred to that as twenty foot, and we're looking at 10, and I think uh I've spoken with the owner, Mr.

Rogers, and he's willing to put in a tree buffer or something along that uh north property line uh to help with appearance and potential noise, which I personally don't think is gonna be a problem.

And I don't think dust collection is gonna be a problem, obviously, because it has to be contained.

Uh he's already commented on what type of chemicals and stuff he uses very sporadically.

Some paint stripper, uh, but not he doesn't put urethane on equip on you know, doesn't have a paint booth, doesn't spray paint uh or spray finish stuff.

Uh he simply primes it and then sends it on, and they do that somewhere else.

Um, as far as if I may you guys hear me?

Yes, go ahead.

Okay.

Uh, and yes, Dirk, I was sworn, I w raised my hand here.

Uh Matt Langman, our limited son consulting, um, and to help with with some of that uh concern regarding the dust.

Like dad just they hit the nail on the head with the collection systems, but also that's a gravel lot right now.

So I would argue that um if you went over there right now, you would see uh a decent amount of dust probably uh stir around even from the light, the little to light uh traffic that that goes across that lot currently, and also from a noise standpoint.

There's there's constantly food trucks over there uh near that uh little shopping center.

There's usually two or three, or at least one or two.

Um I don't know their frequency, but I drive by this lot uh at least once a day.

Um, like I said, food trucks, they're they're there almost every week, uh, running generators and whatnot.

So uh yeah, from uh from a comparison standpoint to what is there now currently.

Um I really I agree with that.

I really don't uh see there being much of a negative impact from from sound uh or or dust.

I don't see those two things impacting.

Okay, thank you for that.

I might point out the neighbor next door isn't here.

He the neighbor next door is what not here, not here on straight.

I'm remonstrating, I understand.

Okay, okay, thank you.

Other questions?

And Roger, how many years has it been?

Since 2013, I can't do the math.

What is that?

Fair enough.

But what ourselves, what if ourselves did that?

I think I think this is an interesting one.

Um I've thought a lot about this intersection.

It's a great neighborhood, um, and it Barker connects to uh a walkable crossing over the Lloyd.

Um you can walk from Franken Street into that entertainment district and neighborhood.

The Barker Brew House is uh asset to the south, and then you've got Honeymoon and the Evansville Coffee Company just across the street that people can't safely cross that intersection.

I've dreamed a lot about great things at this site.

Um this certainly seems like an improvement.

Um you've got retail, it's a creative enterprise, you're you're uh artisan woodworker, right?

I hope to.

Um, we do.

And it's certainly um what are we doing?

It certainly seems like an improvement.

I would be uh I'd love to see the a confidence with the neighbors of of a tree tree row.

I think that would help.

Um, and I'd I'd love to see a lot more in this kind of this corridor.

Um in the meantime, I think this seems like uh a step forward.

Is that a motion for approval?

Uh that's just my positive comment.

Um there might still be a little discussion roof if we can.

So we have a motion for approval.

Is there a second?

And Mr.

Shetler.

Oh, sorry, Mr.

Walter.

You're a little too slow.

This one's slow on the button today.

I think Walter's on Eastern Time.

Cassie, will you please call the role on this?

Mr.

Nick's.

My father, father passed a few years ago.

He would be your best customer.

I believe.

Thank you.

Mr.

Peggy.

Great job.

Thank you for the investment.

We appreciate businesses locating and using spaces like this.

And hopefully the rezoning part can match the intent and the um energy from some of the people investing in it.

So I vote yes.

Mr.

Shatler.

Yes.

Mr.

Walters.

Yes.

Ms.

Cabill?

Yes.

Ms.

Freeman.

Yes.

And I'm probably going to stop in and check it out.

I definitely will.

Mr.

Hooper.

Yes.

I'd like to see some trees, but yes.

Ms.

Stevens.

I vote yes as well.

So show that eight yes.

Zero no, no abstentions, and it will move forward with a recommendation for approval to city council.

So congratulations.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Okay.

Thank you all.

Next uh subdivisions.

Joe one day off.

The rezoning portion of the meeting is now over, and we will now hear the proposed subdivisions that are on our agenda.

As stated earlier, the area plan commission is the sole authority on subdivisions.

State law and our subdivision control ordinance dictate the issues the plan commission can consider when reviewing a subdivision application.

Unlike a rezoning consideration of a subdivision is limited to whether it complies with the standards and requirements in the local subdivision control ordinance.

If a subdivision application meets the requirements set forth in the subdivision control ordinance, the area plan commission must approve the primary plat.

Indiana courts have indicated that plan commissions have no discretion in this regard and that our role in reviewing and acting on subdivisions is purely ministerial.

Five affirmative votes are needed to approve a subdivision plat, and conversely, five negative votes are required to deny a plat.

In the event that there are not five votes for or against, this is considered a no action vote, and the plat returns to the next APC meeting for consideration.

The guidelines for testimony on subdivisions will be the same as those explained at the onset of this meeting.

Petitioners and remonstrators should remember that the only testimonies the APC can consider are facts that prove whether the plat complies with the specific standards in the subdivision control ordinance.

Copies of the subdivision control ordinance are available in the Area Plan Commission office in room 312 or on our website at Evansville APC.com.

Okay.

All right.

First up is MAJ-2026-005, WAV-2026-012.

The proposed Gerhart subdivision is a replat of lots one and two in the Jack Nanny subdivision, which was recorded in May 20 on May 23rd of 1984, and an additional 16.6 acres of parceled ground that is being split into five reconfigured lots.

The property is located on the east side of Ode Boonville Highway, south of Lynch Road, north of Telephone Road.

The subdivision review committee reviewed this plat on May 18th of 2026.

The access statement under general notes on the plat reads lots three, four, and five shall access Ode Boonville Highway only.

Lots one and two shall access through the 30-foot easement for public utilities and ingress and egress only.

The requirement for a drainage plan was weighed by the city engineer's office on June 11th of 2026.

None of the within described tract of land lies within the special flood hazard area zone A.

Water is available and is provided by the Evansville Water and Sewer Utility and sewer will be provided by private on-site sewage disposal system and must be approved and permitted by the Vanderburgh County Health Department.

The applicant has requested a sidewalk waiver for the subdivision, which will need to be approved by the Area Plan Commission and the Board of Public Works.

Sidewalks are required unless waived.

City engineers' comments are as follows.

Okay to approve.

Evansville Vanderburgh School Corporation comments are as follows.

EVSC does not object to the subdivision or the sidewalk waiver for this project.

Vanderburgh County Surveyor's Office, Building Commission, and Evansville Water and Sewer Utility as part of the subdivision review committee have no objections to the sidewalk waiver.

Staff recommendations since the proposed plaque complies with both the comprehensive plan and the requirement standards of the subdivision code, the staff recommends that primary plant approval be granted with the requirements and conditions of approval listed in the staff field report.

Alright, well, anyone who's here to speak on this uh forward or against, please raise your right hand.

Do you swear or affirm the testimony you will give is true and accurate?

So I hope you got I do.

Thank you.

Could you go ahead and state your name and address for the record?

My name is Trent McPeak.

I live at 108 South Sideless Street in McLean's borough, Illinois.

I'm the land surveyor with Nykirk Engineering.

I prepared the plat, and I'm just here to answer any questions that any of you may have.

Okay, terrific.

Do you have anything to add to Mr.

London's report?

Okay, perfect.

All right.

Are there questions?

Okay.

Are there a go ahead?

You do carry a license for Indiana.

Yes.

Okay.

Thank you.

Good question.

Well, I just well, yeah.

We very seldom ever see any of the outside firms.

Right, right.

Which is fine.

Which is fine.

We live right on the border.

Yeah.

Our office is right on the border in Mount Carmel.

So we do quite a result of Indiana, yeah.

Uh yeah, we've got your license cover.

Okay.

All right.

Uh, are there remonstrators on this petition?

Okay, seeing none, uh I would entertain a motion for approval wait for it with the following conditions.

Motion to approve.

Okay, we'll go we'll go with that.

The following conditions.

Hold on, with the following conditions.

Prior to recording on this is MHA-2026-005.

Gearhart, um, prior to recording.

One, complete the sidewalk waiver statement if the requested waiver is approved.

If not, add the installation of sidewalks with C of O statement.

Yeah.

So you're okay with that one?

Yes.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yes, Mr.

Walters, will you uh continue with your uh motion?

Yes, motion.

Motion to approve with the conditions second.

Okay, yeah, all right.

Motion and a second.

Um you please call the roll.

Mr.

Pecky.

I vote yes.

Mr.

Shatler.

Yes.

Mr.

Walters.

Yes.

Ms.

Cabill?

Yes.

Ms.

Freeman?

Yes.

Mr.

Hooper?

Yes.

Mr.

Nix?

Yes.

And Ms.

Stevens.

I vote yes as well.

So it's eight.

Yes, zero no, no abstentions, and this subdivision is approved.

And that will go on to the sidewalk waiver.

Any questions on that?

Sounds so approved.

Second.

We have a motion to approve and a second.

Cassie, will you please call the roll on that?

Mr.

Shatler?

Yes.

Mr.

Walters.

Yes.

Ms.

Cabill?

No.

Ms.

Freeman?

Yes.

Mr.

Hooper.

Yes.

Mr.

Nicks?

Yes.

Mr.

Pecky?

Yes.

Miss Steven.

I vote yes as well, though I do appreciate Ms.

Cobble's uh no.

Um but in this it's on principle.

Yeah.

But but in uh I'm saying, I'm guessing it's on principle.

But uh in this case, I think it's okay.

And so it's uh seven yes, uh zero no, I mean one no, zero abstentions, and and it will um it has to be approved by so the Board of Public Works will also have to approve it.

Okay, so it will move forward with the recommendation for approval.

It was approved by the Board of Public Works earlier this afternoon.

Yes, okay.

There we go then.

What do we do?

Okay, it has to get both.

It's not a recommendation.

Doesn't matter which order.

Right.

Oh, okay.

I questioned that, and they said it would be okay to do that.

Okay, terrific.

Okay.

Where the Board of Public Works uh approved it on the condition of this role at this point.

That makes sense.

Okay.

All right, super.

You're good to go.

Thank you very much.

I showed up and learned something.

Yeah, next up.

Okay, next up is MAJ-2026-006 WAV-2026-013 Greystone Estates.

The Greystone Estates Plat is a 34-lot residential subdivision zone R3 with a UDC and located on the south side of Covert Avenue between Shoshone Lane and Seasons Ridge Boulevard.

The property consists of four sectional lots that are currently undeveloped.

The subdivision review committee reviewed this plant on June 15th, 2026.

The subdivision street network will consist of one main road, road Number One, that will connect directly to two existing county roads, Shoshone Drive and Seasons Ridge Boulevard.

Shoshone Drive and Seasons Ridge Boulevard both lead to parks owned by the EVSC and the City of Evansville, respectively, along with major residential subdivisions that have single and multifamily projects.

The access statement under general notes on the plat reads all access interior streets only.

On June 30th of 2026, the Vanderburgh County Drainage Board granted preliminary approval of the drainage plan for Greystone Estate subdivision.

Vanderburgh County Surveyor comments are as follows.

The County Surveyor's Office will not be able to sign off on the plat until final drainage plans have been approved by the drainage board and until the vacation of the regulated drain cold ditch has been completed and approved by the drainage board.

Building commission comments are as follows.

Flood plain statement states there is no tract of land in the floodplain.

According to our flood maps, it is.

Please update the map and statement.

Order and sewer service are available by extension, and a letter of credit will be required if the public improvements are not completed and accepted prior to recording.

Staff recommendation on the subdivision.

Since the proposed plaque complies with the requirements and standards of the subdivision code, the staff recommends that primary plat approval be granted with the requirements conditions of the approval listed in the staff field report.

The applicant has also requested a sidewalk waiver for the subdivision, which will be considered by the Area Plan Commission for recommendation with the final decision by the Vandenberg County Commissioners.

Sidewalks are required unless waived.

County engineers' comments are as follows.

If a sidewalk waiver is not approved for the subdivision, it appears that additional right-of-way will also be required at the northwest corner of the subdivision.

This additional right of way would be needed for the construction of a sidewalk on Shoshone and to allow that sidewalk to connect to the existing sidewalk along Covert Avenue.

I do not recommend approval of the sidewalk waiver for this subdivision.

Evansville MPO comments are as follows.

The sidewalk waiver does not meet the guidelines in the access management manual and design guidelines, therefore sidewalks should be installed.

Evansville Vanderburgh School Corporation comments are as follows.

EVSC objects to waiving sidewalks on this project.

We would accept them on one side of the internal street.

Sidewalks are critical to keep children from being forced to walk in the street, particularly on Shoshone and Seasons Ridge.

The Sheriff of Vanderburgh County has submitted a letter which is attached with the staff field report for the Office of Sheriff of Vanderburgh County.

The sidewalk waiver request should be denied.

Vanderburgh County Surveyor's Office, Building Commission at Evansville Warner and Sea Utility as part of the subdivision review committee, recommended the sidewalks, the sidewalk waiver be denied.

Staff recommendation based on the comments received from the county engineer, EMPO, Evansville Vanderburgh School Corporation, Sheriff, Building Commission, and County Surveyors Offices.

The staff would recommend that the sidewalk waiver be denied.

Alright, well, everyone who's here to speak on this petition for it or against it, all of you.

Please raise your right hand.

Do you swear or affirm the testimony you will give is true and accurate?

So if you got I do.

Thank you.

Scott Beadle with Cash Wagner and Associates for Citadel Circle.

Evansville.

Aaron Miller with Greystone Investments 1080 Stall Road.

We've been working with the surveyor's office on relocating that ditch to run east and then run south along Seasons Ridge to tie back into the culverts that are under that road.

And we're in the process of vacating that legal drain right of entry.

That's the tail end of the legal drain.

It stops at the south right away of Covert Avenue.

And right now I think it's it's just a low-lying area, probably hard to maintain.

So we feel like we're hopefully going to improve the situation for the for them to do maintenance on it and bring it into this subdivision where it will be taken care of through the owners, homeowners association, and so forth.

So we are in the process of compiling our adjoiner's list of 534 people that we have to notify, which has been pretty exciting.

Oh I've been.

So we hope to get those notices sent out quickly, and we are scheduled to be on the commissioners.

The I'm sorry, the drainage board meeting on August 11th for a vote on that vacation.

It's more of a technicality, and I'm maybe Ron can weigh in on this, but as far as the floodplain note that's on the plat, so the the general note that I have on there, it's a condition, that's why I'm bringing this up.

So based upon the typical note that goes on the plat, it says this property is not in a hundred-year floodplain per FEMA map.

A particular map, a particular date.

I have copies of that map.

If you want to see it, there's no floodplain on the property.

However, uh DNR has mapped certain areas of Vandenberg County, Warwick County, and we are to look at those maps too and comply with any floodplain and so forth that might affect properties that otherwise don't show up on FEMA maps.

So the only discrepancy I've got right now is I'm being asked to say that the property is in the floodplain per the FEMA map per that dot that map number and that date, that's a totally separate document than the DNR.

So I did add a note to the plat, and so we're still having a little bit of headache with it, but so I put the typical statement that it's not in the floodplain flood, sorry, floodplain per the FEMA map.

But I said uh part of the subject property is shown to be within the limits of the hundred-year flood zone per the Indiana floodplain information portal.

Lots affected by this approximate flood area are indicated to have a minimum finished floor elevation, so we're treating them like they have to protect them so that from flooding, but they're not in the floodplain, so a bank would never require flood insurance, and if they did, we couldn't apply for a Loma to get it removed because it's not in the floodplain to begin with.

So from the standpoint of I guess that I think the staff the condition upon the plat that's being requested, it just says to update the note on the plat.

Well, I think I've updated the note, but I'm still getting pushback on that.

So I know Ron's familiar with FEMA maps and DNR maps.

They're just they're two separate documents.

So I guess I want to make sure I'm not misrepresenting that it's it is in the flood zone per the FEMA map.

It is in the flood zone for the from the DNR map, and I'm trying to make that designation, and we're trying to address it.

We're not trying to get around it.

So it sounds like the issue is on uh uh condition number two.

It's because it says update that contemplates that it's gonna say something different than what it already says.

Is that the problem?

Well, I did update it.

You wanted to say what it already says now.

I did update it and send it.

I did send that back in, and I still I'm being told to change that note to say that it is in the floodplain per the FEMA map on that particular date, that particular map number, which you can go look that up yourself.

It's not in the floodplain.

So I'm just trying to reference the floodplain a different way.

So I guess I'm maybe not from this board, but maybe from Area Plan Commission standpoint, as far as what the building commission is requiring me to put on the plat to I guess.

Wasn't this addressed in the General Assembly a couple years ago.

I just want to put an accurate statement on the platform.

Yeah, I'm not arguing with you, Scott, but that comment came directly from the floodplain administrator.

So I'm just putting down what in the subcommittee what we were required to put in there by, you know, with what we do.

So the I I mean the I don't believe that the plan commission can require someone to make a statement that is factually false.

So if it if it isn't in the floodplain on per FEMA and it, but it is flood protected, or it's it's had some kind of protected status per DNR.

I mean, I think the condition is fine.

Uh I would just say um the floodplain information on the plat should be accurate as to both FEMA and DNR.

Does that make sense?

I'm just putting on there what the floodplain administrator said over to the so I get it.

I don't happy with that, yes.

Yeah.

Have you already talked to them, Scott, about the that's what he's saying?

Is there keep they keep pushing?

They keep pushing back.

Okay, well, and again, I I don't know if it was an appropriate time to bring it up, but I feel like I'm not sure.

Well, you want to go on the record as saying, yeah, right.

When Aaron says it's time to record, and the only way we're gonna get a recorded plat is if I misrepresent the facts.

Uh, is there a way to add the note that says that per the DNR?

I did.

Okay.

Okay.

And yeah, I'm just not that's not on this.

You may not.

Yeah.

I've updated it and sent it back to Plant Commission.

There were a couple comments that we had gotten at site review.

And the other comment that came up in site review was the request for additional right-of-way at the corner of the seasons ridge and covert.

So construction of a piece of sidewalk between seasons ridge and covert.

So we've added that also to the plat.

And I think that's on there.

That's it's been updated since that point.

Area Plan Commission has a new correct.

Yes.

You're part of the bill.

Um okay.

All right.

Are there questions other questions?

Can we strike number two?

Well, I'm not comfortable striking it, but I what I was asking Ron is that you know, when you come back around, you're gonna make the argument that you have updated it to be accurate.

Yes.

And then the question is whether the but whether the floodplain administrator signs off on your secondary plat.

Correct before you record it.

And that's gonna that's a fight for then.

Right.

So, but I mean I'm okay with the language as it is.

I think what he's anticipating is that the way it'll play out is he'll go to all this and and then he'll submit something for recording, and he won't get that signature because for whatever reason there's a disagreement as to what the FEMA map says.

Does that make sense?

Yes, it makes sense.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't know if that's the best path.

But let's go okay, but I think the statement, the condition is fine.

Yeah, as I've mentioned, we all agree the condition is fine.

Okay, okay.

I mean, when I say we all, I mean I think Ron obviously agrees because that's what the language he was given.

And I agree that it doesn't require him to say something false, as and Scott agrees with that as well.

I think I think his concern is not not so much with the with what the plat condition says, but what happens as to whether someone believes he's conformed with that.

And is that just I'm sorry, Bill, let me just understand that.

So is that because the FEMA map and the DNR map might be different?

They are just they are different.

Well, they they are different, and apparently the FEMA map that he's looking at.

It's the only FEMA map.

It's the it's the only FEMA map that's kind of my point.

He doesn't see, he doesn't see what the floodplain administrator is seeing.

I mean, uh they're I don't know.

I don't know what the discrepancy is there.

But but the in any event.

In any event, the condition that's being requested, yeah, does not require him to make a false statement, and so therefore I'm okay with it.

I just wanted to kind of hash that out as to what is going on here.

Okay, I guess the question I have is if if he doesn't sign it, then she's or she then where did where does it where does the project go?

The plan commission needs the sign offs for all the parts from all departments to be able to record the plan.

I'm gonna say that when with his, I'm hoping with his note and that they can they'll come to some type of agreement that okay and she can look at the FEMA maps or something you know as well and then you know it's right here yeah yeah got your little permit yeah yes right okay well I think we've established that we're gonna leave this one it's okay it's out there it's it's out there maybe she'll watch this meeting with a lot of interpretations too great okay any other questions for the petitioners on this okay no remonstration I hope not there's nobody up there okay so I'll entertain a motion to approve with the subdivision with the following conditions following conditions on MAJ-2026-006 Graystone estates prior to recording revise the plat to one provide documentation for the approved vacation of a legal drain to per the building commission's floodplain administrator update the flood plan information on the plat.

Three complete the sidewalk waiver statement if the requested waiver is approved if not add the installation of sidewalks with C of O statement and four per the county engineer if a sidewalk waiver is not approved for the subdivision additional right of way will also be required at the northwest corner of the subdivision so motion to approve okay we've got those conditions second okay we have a motion and a second Cassie will you please call the role on that.

Mr Walters yes Miss Cavill yes Miss Freeman yes Mr Hooper?

Yes Mr Nick?

Yes Mr Pecky I vote yes Mr.

Shetler?

Yes Miss Stevens I vote yes as well so show that eight yes uh zero no in this subdivision is approved now we'll move on to the sidewalk waiver is there anything you wanted to say about the sidewalk waiver before we make a motion to approve the sidewalk waiver yes oh then go right ahead um I'm trying something new uh in an affordable housing situation in a typical subdivision that we develop uh the cost of house sometimes doesn't come into play for an affordable house when we're talking about sidewalks we're talking about adding two thousand dollars per house for a sidewalk uh it is uh an ongoing maintenance for the homeowners in an affordable house and if the sidewalk breaks up it becomes their responsibility in time so it may not be this homeowner but at some point that concrete is going to break up and cause a problem for the homeowner.

The homeowner is responsible and is liable for that sidewalk so we're putting an added liability on these future homeowners in an affordable house.

I could say in certain housing developments that uh can afford a $2,000 sidewalk that is appropriate when we're talking about an affordable house sometimes $2,000 is a make or break if they can afford the house period.

So I am looking at this subdivision and saying all of these people in the sheriff's office the building commission the Elizabeth water sewer and the EVSC if they're willing to pitch in on sidewalks I'd be open to putting them in.

And I just don't see that happening.

So we are now pushing the cost of the sidewalks onto the homeowner it is not it is a upfront developer cost but the cost eventually goes into homeowner's pocketbook.

They are paying for that over a 30 year program or a 30 year note or whatever mortgage they would have so you're adding a cost to a house for sidewalks that on one side of the subdivision Shoshone does not have any walks.

There are no walks over there so it's a sidewalk going into nothing land and on the other side's ridge does have walks so you would have sidewalks going into one side of the subdivision currently there are sidewalks on the north side of the property on Covert Road and we are willing to give a right of way access so if the county deems that sidewalks are very important and they want to add sidewalks to add a sidewalk extension from the covert to the seasons ridge side, we'd be willing to do that.

But adding $2,000 on an affordable house can be a make or break if someone can afford the house.

So I understand that everybody wants sidewalks.

If you walk into any subdivision, people are walking on the streets, they're not walking on the sidewalks.

Um I've developed multiple subdivisions, and I can tell you no one is using utilizing the sidewalks, they're using the streets.

So we'd be adding a sidewalk that no one really wants to pay for, and we're calling it for a safety issue when the side of the side side of the street that we want to attach sidewalks to don't exist.

So I wanted to bring that point.

Um I'm willing to give a ride away.

I'm I'm I'm willing to say if any of these people feel like sidewalks are so necessary that they're willing to find something in their budget to cover that, I'd be more than happy to open up that area.

But we're talking about $70,000, and that is a real number, and it's a real number that a $2,000 homeowner is going to have to pay.

So I just wanted to point that out.

Okay, is are you are you factoring both sides of the sidewalk?

Would it be half as much if the sidewalks were only, I mean, both sides of the street if the sidewalks were only one on one side of the street?

If it was on one side, you're still talking two thousand dollars per house, so split that in half, you'd be thirty-four thousand dollars.

Okay, is this in the city or the county?

It's a city.

So far south, it's in county.

When you say, sorry, go ahead.

When you say affordable, uh I mean, so are you seeking some type of uh grant or something, or you're just doing this as at an affordable rate?

So I'm trying to build affordable housing, and and and I'm gonna be honest with you, this is something that I'm not used to.

Uh we're talking uh 1,200 to 1,500 square foot houses, and when you talk two thousand dollars in that square footage, that's that's a number.

Uh I if this were a 34, 4,000 square foot house, you can absorb 2,000.

Uh I'm trying to keep the lot prices realistic and the house prices realistic, so it's affordable.

So every time we say let's let's do this, let's add this 2,000 here.

It's only 500, it's only a thousand, it's only two thousand.

That's why people can't afford houses today.

And as someone who works with uh an organization that deals with a lot of affordable housing and development, I I understand that, but also on the the flip side as a person who lives in between Weinbach and Alvar Boulevard who does not have sidewalks right now, and through all of the things that we've had here, it's that quality of life.

I do get that a lot of people don't use them, but also when you start to get kids in a neighborhood and affordable housing things to do, um, it's it's always at the back of my mind how much better would the neighborhood be, at least with a sidewalk or one sidewalk, as as we were pointing out.

So it's hard for me, and and I I get it because I have 174 rental units, all affordable housing, single families.

I get it, that cost is a real number.

Um, but if you're not getting some subsidization to even make it affordable, I don't know how much that two thousand is going to make a difference for that family anyway.

So I know what the cost to build is going to be for you give or take, and that that extra two, I just don't know that that it's gonna make that that much.

I I get it, it is 70 is a real number, 35 is a real number.

Um, but I think in the long run, we've got to figure that out, and I I don't know what that is today.

Um, so I hear you and and I and I hear that concern, but I also think about those folks that are going to live there and want to live there and and what that means for them and their potential children or families, whatever that looks like.

Is that a request for a full waiver or or partial or I mean, okay.

Well, how do we can drop it to a partial would?

Well, my you know, my concern is there's a there's a playground I'm yeah, I think right across the street, and you know, again, okay, yeah.

To me, it's I just wanted to give you a chance to say something if you want to.

Okay, let's talk about the playground, and we're gonna be crossing two streets.

Is how is that going to process?

So if I put this sidewalk in going from one side to the other, how are people gonna cross Seasons Ridge?

And how are people going to cross Shoshone to get to those parks?

They're gonna be crossing something.

What is that?

It's a street, it's not a sidewalk that they're gonna be crossing.

They're gonna be crossing the street.

Okay, all right.

Thank you for that.

Other questions?

Okay.

I'll entertain a motion to approve this sidewalk waiver.

I'll make the motion to approve the waiver.

Okay.

I have a motion and a second.

Okay.

Cassie, go ahead and call the roll.

Miss Cabill.

Oh, why'd you pick me first?

The luck of the draw.

I I I truly sympathize with you.

Um but I have to stand on principle, and I just did this in the last vote, so I have to vote no.

Miss Freeman?

I'm on the no side, at least at least one side or the other.

Um I could go with half.

Yeah.

I could vote on it.

Well, no, the waivers, it's up to them to, isn't it?

We can say we could drop it down.

I think we're told that we could reduce it.

You can reduce yeah, it's your vote, not their vote.

Okay, yeah.

Right, but we're already into the votes.

We're currently in the full waiver vote, correct?

But we had yes, and you can if it doesn't get the full road waiver, I guess somebody can make a motion to do a partial waiver.

That's what I'm asking.

What's the best way to do that?

Okay.

That's what we'll do.

Okay.

Keep going.

I voted no.

Okay.

Yes.

Correct.

Mr.

Hooper?

No.

Mr.

Nix?

No.

Mr.

Pecky?

I am convinced by the financial impact, uh, but I've got uh other reasons also.

And for this area for sidewalks, I vote yes for the waiver.

Mr.

Shatler.

Yes.

Mr.

Walters.

Um, I'll tell you, I'm gonna have to uh he locked me with the the loan issue.

I mean, I've looked that up uh over 30 years that I'm out to uh three thousand two hundred dollars, not two thousand.

Uh mean little little bit of an increase.

Um sidewalks, my neighborhood built 1926.

My sidewalk's still in good shape.

So I'm gonna have to vote no on this one.

And Ms.

Stevens.

Okay, I um I vote no as well.

I'm for sidewalks, and I I just you know, I I hear the argument people walk in the street, but you know, if you have a five-year-old or a four-year-old and they're wanting to walk down the street, you really don't want them in the street, so people don't see those tiny little people.

So uh this sidewalk waiver did not pass, did not get approved.

Did we want to?

Three three to five, is that right?

Uh six to two.

Sorry, go.

Okay.

Two, yes, six, no.

I'm sorry I didn't announce that.

Two, yes, six, no, no abstentions.

So the sidewalk waiver is did not pass.

Okay.

I'd make a motion for a partial.

Yeah.

I'd I'd agree with that.

Pick one side or the other.

I'll second that.

Yeah.

Well, partials better than all.

But what's that?

Partial where on which street or on Seasons Ridge?

Right.

I think you want to specify.

There's already a sidewalk on the west side of Seasons Ridge.

Okay, so just on one side of the street, they're on Greystone?

Yeah, probably the north.

North side, so you want to make a session?

Field said north, you said south.

I mean, I think if the sidewalk were on the south side, then it would dip into the existing sidewalk more organically without crossing the street.

It'd be more connected to the existing sidewalks.

Right?

I don't know.

Scott, what do you think?

Were you you said north?

Well, so one have more property.

North or south.

I just kind of envisioned on the north side to have a loop around.

Because there's a sidewalk up on the cover.

That's what we were wondering.

Yeah, so how would you want to make that motion?

I make a motion for the side.

Go ahead, go ahead.

I want to stop.

If we go to the south side, I have access, we would have more access to the park.

I would say the south side would be more beneficial.

Okay.

So partial waiver would be the on the north side.

You would waive the sidewalks on the north side.

Yeah.

Okay.

So is that what I just say so moved to one of those?

So moved.

Okay, we have a motion and a second.

Um Cassie, will you please call the roll on that?

Miss Freeman?

Yes.

Mr.

Hooper.

Yes.

Mr.

Nix?

Yes.

Mr.

Petke.

Yes.

Mr.

Shatler?

Yes.

Mr.

Walters?

Yes.

Ms.

Cabill?

Yes.

And Miss Stevens.

I vote yes as well, so show that eight yes, zero no.

And so the the partial sidewalk waiver is approved.

For the south side.

It's on the record.

Okay.

No, the waiver's for the north side.

The waiver would be on the north side, but the sidewalks would be on the south side.

Yes.

Correct.

Okay.

Anything else?

Everybody have a good fourth.

Be safe.

Don't you know keep your appendages?

Yeah.

Okay.

Thank you all.

Thank you guys.

You're right.

Okay.

Uh is there a motion to adjourn?

So move.

Okay.

Motion.

All in favor signify by aye.

Opposed.

Okay.

This meeting is adjourned.

Everybody ordering four.

Happy fourth.

Thank you.

250 years is a long time, but we got a ways to go.

Yeah.

416.

Oh, hey.

Um, yeah, I didn't need to buy the way.

Sidewalk waiver.

I just said no.

I just uh go to the commissioners.

I have so I think we have to have a lot of pain.

Basically, you gotta