And welcome to the November eighteenth, twenty twenty-five meeting of the Greensboro City Council.

We are in the Katie Dorset Council Chamber.

Let the record reflect that all members are in attendance.

We will begin tonight's meeting with a moment of silence.

In order to speak at tonight's meeting, individuals must sign up to speak by six PM.

If you have signed up online, please let the courier know that you are in attendance.

Speakers may address specific consent or business agenda items with three minutes allocated for their remarks.

For zoning matters, there is a fifteen-minute presentation for both proponents and opponents of the rezoning and a five-minute rebuttal for each side.

Speakers cannot relinquish their time to others, and the speaker order is determined by the presiding officer.

Depending on the number of speakers, council may adjust the time allocated for each person.

Any handouts must be given to the courier for distribution.

Any inappropriate or disruptive behavior will result in immediate removal from the meeting.

Individuals who are suspended will still have the option to participate virtually via Zoom, ensuring their right to free speech is preserved.

Zoom participants, and I don't believe we have any this evening.

Um shall not speak until they are called upon.

By statute, council members must vote on all items unless there is a direct financial interest, or if they serve on a board of a nonprofit receiving funding from the city on a particular item.

All votes will be moved and seconded, and the presiding officer will announce the vote total.

We have a consent agenda for items G1 through G14, which are a grouping of agenda items that are voted on with one single vote to expedite what is believed to be routine and non-controversial.

Any council member may withdraw an item from the consent agenda due to a conflict of interest or for the purpose of voting no.

Items removed from the consent agenda for discussion will be placed on the next business meeting agenda.

Tonight's meeting does include closed captioning.

Depending on the length of today's meeting, we may take a short recess around 7 30.

The city has been requested to postpone item E3, which is a resolution honoring the life and legacy of Jim Melvin to the December 1st City Council meeting.

May I have a motion?

Moved by Mr.

Matheny, seconded by Mayor Pro Tem.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

And that passes 9 to 0.

We do have two ceremonial items.

We are going to start with item E2, which is a resolution honoring the exceptional civic and community contributions of Carla D.

Munden.

Mr.

Holston.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

And before I begin, I will say that Carla Munden is also at this very same time, has a scheduled uh celebration out at Grandover, so she's unable to make it.

But I'm going to read the resolution in her absence.

This is a resolution honoring the exceptional civic and community contributions of Carla D.

Munden.

Whereas Carla D.

Munden, Senior Vice President and Chief Audit Executive of Lincoln Financial Group, has exemplified leadership, integrity, and service throughout her distinguished career.

Her expertise in corporate governance, finance, and philanthropy has elevated institutions and improved the lives of residents across Greensboro.

Whereas Ms.

Munden, a Greensboro native and distinguished veteran of the United States Navy Reserve, has exemplified an enduring commitment to education and economic empowerment.

She continues to demonstrate this commitment through her steadfast support of nonprofit organizations, dedicated mentorship of students, and sustained investment in future generations.

Whereas she served the community through impactful leadership roles with organizations such as the YWCA of Greensboro, Operation Excel, North Carolina ANT State University Board of Visitors, the Martha and Spencer Love School of Business at Elon University, the Complete Project Foundation, the Community Foundation of Greater Greensboro, where she chaired the audit committee and was an inaugural donor to the Black Investments in Greensboro big fund, as well as hospice and palliative care of Greensboro and the Lincoln Financial Foundation Chaired Road Contributions Committee.

Whereas Ms.

Munden has extended her leadership nationally through service on the boards of the American Express American Express National Bank and the College of William and Mary Foundation, where she serves as trustee and vice chair of the audit committee and has endowed a scholarship and named a space to support underrepresented students.

Whereas her philanthropic legacy includes more than 38 years of dedicated support to the March of Dimes, where she has been the largest nonprofit fundraiser in the triad for the past three years, as well as personal contributions to literacy and public remembrance through the donation of books to the Greensboro Public Library and the dedication of a public bench in honor of her parents.

Whereas Ms.

Munden is a life member of the National Association of Black Accountants, a Diamond Life member of Zeta Five Beta Sorority Incorporated, a long-standing member of the United Way Detopeville Society, and has been recognized as a woman worth watching by Profiles and Diversity Journal, a woman in business by the Triad Business Journal, and as one of the top 100 most influential blacks in corporate America by Savoy Magazine.

Now, therefore, be it resolved by the City Council of the City of Greensboro that Carla D.

Munden is hereby honored and commended for her exemplary professional leadership, philanthropic spirit, and unwavering support to the City of Greensboro and its residents.

And recognizes her as a model of civic is excellence and inspirations for future generations.

Adopted this 18th day of November 2025.

Madam Mayor, I move that resolution.

There are seconds.

Second by Dr.

Wells.

Please vote.

And I'll simply say that that having worked with Ms.

Mundan for several years, I can strongly attest to the fact that she has been a mentor to so many in this community, and it has really been a pleasure working with her and having her in our community and contributing so well to our community.

Thank you, Carla.

Thank you.

And that passes nine to zero.

Um we are waiting for um Rabbi Coran for the next item.

Um so can we move the consent agenda at this point?

Is there an issue with advertising at 530?

I think we're fine.

I know the public hearings we have to hold till after 530.

I wanted to know if it would be okay for us to move on to the consent agenda while we're waiting for this next resolution.

Yes, and come back to it.

Come back to the resolution once everybody's here.

Yes, ma'am.

I would like to move um one of the items on the consent agenda just to highlight it for a moment, not because I have any questions, but it's item G12.

Go ahead.

Um we want to move everything but G12.

Or do we just I I just really want to say that the item is um let me go back up and find it.

Um is the resolution authorizing the purchase of um entire property um located at 301 YY Humble Road from Mr.

Hassan in the amount of 87,100 for future park expansion at Brown Community Park.

Um, and I just wanted to reference it because it will kind of it will complete the purchase of the land that is behind Brown, which I think is also something critical in the South area plan as well, as it speaks about expansion of park and enhancement of the park.

Um, this land, um, along with we actually worked in partnership with the county um together with this particular piece of property um that had actually no municipal use.

Um, but when we approached the owner, um he realized that he couldn't do anything with it, um, and to has for a few years.

So it is more beneficial to Brown than it was to him.

And we were able to negotiate with the county, work it out, um, and to repay the um current seller what he paid for the property.

And I think it was a very creative, unique way for us to acquire this land.

I think it's gonna really enhance um the whole area, Brown, the way they're gonna do um the trails and expand Brown Recreation uh community center.

So I just want to highlight that sometime when we buy land, there's a reason why we're buying it, um, but it is certainly um, I think a real good asset for the community in the southeast as well.

So just wanted to highlight that.

Then I'd like to move the entire consent agenda.

So you'll move the consent agenda for this evening.

Yes.

Thank you.

Seconded by Mrs.

Thurm.

Council, please vote.

And Sharon, thank you for highlighting um that will be an important uh addition to the recreation center.

And that goes for nine to zero.

We're going to um go back to our resolutions, and item E1 is a resolution honoring Rabbi Fred Gutman for his service and contributions to the Greensboro community.

Mrs.

Hoffman.

Thank you very much, Mayor.

It's an honor for me to do this.

Rabbi Gutman was a friend and uh spiritual advisor to both me and my husband Jackson in all of the years that since we moved to Greensboro.

I said um Rabbi Guttman is in uh Israel.

He's able to spend more time there now in his retirement.

So Rabbi Coran is going to accept this resolution.

Resolution honoring Rabbi Fred Gutman for his lifetime of service and contributions to the Greensboro community.

Whereas Rabbi Fred Gutman faithfully served as Rabbi of Temple Emmanuel in Greensboro, North Carolina, from 1995 to 2021.

Whereas under his leadership, Temple Temple Emmanuel's membership grew from 360 to approximately 600 families.

And a successful capital campaign raised over $8 million to construct a new synagogue and preserve the historic downtown temple.

Whereas prior to his arrival in Greensboro, Rabbi Gutman lived in Israel for 12 years.

He served as rabbi and principal of Alexander Moss High School and as a member of a combat unit in the Israel Defense Forces.

Whereas Rabbi Gutman was a champion of interfaith unity and social justice.

He led interfaith clergy trips to Israel and co-founded the annual Greensboro Jewish Festival that continues to celebrate, celebrate Jewish culture, and strengthen community bonds.

Whereas nationally, Rabbi Gutman organized in 2015 National Jewish commemoration of the Bloody Sunday March in Selma, Alabama, and served as regional director for the International March of the Living.

He accompanied Greensboro students to Poland and Israel on 17 occasions.

Whereas his lifetime of service earned numerous numerous honors, including the Sharon Horde Lifetime of Service Award, the NCCJ Brotherhood Sisterhood Citation recognition as one of the 33 most inspirational rabbis in North America, and the 2022 Lifetime Community Service Award from the International Civil Rights Center and Museum.

Whereas, even in retirement, Rabbi Gutman continues his commitment to education and remembrance, leading Holocaust teacher training trips to Poland, which received national recognition while remaining an active teacher, writer, and community voice.

Whereas Rabbi Gutman has enriched Greensboro's spirit spiritual and cultural life through his inclusive leadership, music, and advocacy, and now therefore be it resolved by the City Council of the City of Greensboro.

The City Council recognizes Rabbi Fred Gutman for his remarkable career, his lifelong service to others and lasting impact on the Greensboro community.

But a copy of this resolution shall be presented to Rabbi Gutman as a token of gratitude for his unwavering dedication to this community, adopted this the 18th day of November 2025.

I move the resolution there.

Second.

Seconded by Mrs.

Thurm.

Council, please vote.

And that passes 9 to 0.

Thank you.

Distinguished members of the Greensboro City Council, to our mayor, to our mayor elect, and to all those who serve this uh city with such uh distinction and with such care.

This is a very high um honor uh for Rabbi Gutman and as someone who worked with him for 18 years and who has uh had the honor of following in his footsteps as the senior rabbi of Temple Emmanuel on behalf of our loving community.

Uh I am so grateful to accept this.

Uh I know that this is something that were he here in town, uh he would um uh he would be accepting it with also uh with tremendous pride.

Uh the Jewish community here in Greensboro, at least in its organized form, goes back to 1907 with the founding of Temple Emmanuel.

And yet uh in all of our years, I could say that while we've been uh party to such important work that's been done in this city.

I think that we know that we still have much important work to do in the years coming forward, and we look forward to doing so together.

So thank you so much to each and every one of you.

Nancy, thank you so much for all that you have done within Temple Emanuel and done for Temple Emanuel over the years.

We were honored to have you to speak during Yom Kippur afternoon this year as part of our congregants hour and the many things that you've done as you cycle off of this council.

Uh just uh I wish that I had in my hand uh and uh and I'm sure that Rabbi Gutman also could have authored a resolution on your behalf uh for all that you have done uh not just for the Jewish community locally but also for our city, and we honor you, we honor this entire council, and we say to you Mazaltov uh as well as a very heartfelt thank you very much.

Thank you.

Now we will move on to our public hearing.

We are a few minutes early.

Um I believe they were advertised for 5:30.

Um can we move forward?

Madam Attorney.

We can move forward.

Okay.

Item H1 is a public hearing in consideration of adoption of the South Greensboro plan.

We do have a number of speakers signed up, but if we could get an overview, um Mr.

Clay.

Yes, thank you very thank you very much.

Um mayor and city council.

Um, this evening, my name is Russ Clegg.

I manage the long-range planning division in the planning department.

Uh this afternoon, we are here to hold the public hearing and consider adoption of the South Greensboro Plan.

Uh the planning and zoning commission held the public hearing and voted on November 20th and voted unanimously in favor of recommending adoption.

Um this plan covers a very wide area as you can see from I-40 to I-85, north to south, and from 220 over to 421.

It's about eight square miles, uh, and there's a lot of different uses in that area.

Um, there's a lot of different communities, a lot of businesses, a wide variety of neighborhoods, housing types.

Um we've had a lot of great public input throughout the process.

Uh we've had a series of public meetings in different locations in the community.

Uh, we had focus groups, we went to a lot of neighborhood association meetings, knocked on a lot of business doors, had an online presence, and also had an advisory committee throughout.

The vision for this plan see South Greensboro as being a place that's prosperous and safe, inclusive for everybody.

It'll be a vibrant and distinctive part of Greensboro.

Uh, to have stable neighborhoods and inviting public spaces.

It'll be a great place to live and invest and build a more sustainable future.

Um to get there, this plan has a wide variety of recommendations.

It's very action-oriented, but it also has some very aspirational themes that are brought together at the end that really demonstrate what the area can turn into in the long term.

It also builds on the random and road phase two plan, takes those into consideration with the recommendations.

Um, when you look at the different elements that the meetings were based on that sort of form the building blocks of the plan uh and the future growth framework, we have the transportation network, you've got everything from small neighborhood streets to major highways.

Uh there's a system of small parks in the area that create a nice green network along with the creeks and potential for an interlocking trail system.

Um, and then with the urban form and the uh built environment, you've got spaces where we can reinvest, we can have new folks move in and new businesses move in and revitalize that area.

So when you take all those and put them together towards the end of the plan, there's a strong element of what the area could look like in the future, 15-20 years out, uh, that really illustrates how those key concepts can come together.

And these aren't saying exactly that's how that space will look, but it's demonstrating different concepts.

So as developers come, as new folks want to invest, we have a sense of what we're aiming for in the long term.

At the moment, we're working on the action plan.

There's a lot of recommendations, so we're trying to prioritize those, trying to figure out what the cost will be, time frames for implementing those.

Um we've talked with the advisory committee about ranking those as well as with different city departments.

That'll be something that lives separately from the plan.

It will continue to evolve over time as things get implemented and and new challenges come up.

Um at the moment, we're already got a few things underway.

We're particularly with the random and road plan.

We're working on the code enforcement.

We just had a lighting and study study and several lighting improvements made along Randall and Road.

We're working with retail strategies to recruit new businesses out there.

We also have a new crosswalk that'll be built in the next month or two on Elmsley Drive with an AARP grant.

And in combination with Vandalia Road Improvements, we already mentioned the Brown Recreation Center and some exciting improvements that are happening there.

So those things are rolled up into this plan as it as it moves forward.

So that's a very brief overview.

It's a big plan.

But I would like to answer any questions you have at this point, or I think there's a few people here to speak about the plan as well.

Any questions for Mr.

Clegg?

Yes, ma'am.

Is this thing working?

Okay.

Never know.

Um I had a quick question.

I know this is we initially started out with a Southeast area plan, but it was bigger.

So is this kind of bring it down a little bit smaller scale so we can get started quicker?

Yeah, exactly.

Right.

So this is a focused look at a particular small area within that bigger geography, and we're not trying to label this as a South Greensboro, whatever it's just a kind of descriptor of the plan for that purpose.

But to your point to get some momentum going to really focus on the assets and building on that long term.

Well, I've I like the plan.

I absolutely think it's great.

And um, you really moved it pretty quickly, which I'm glad to see that it didn't take so long kind of move.

Yes, having so many meetings in the communities involved.

So but I'll save my other comments.

I want to hear from the speakers.

Okay.

Thank you.

But thank you, Russ, for all your work, your due diligence.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Before you go, you talked about community involvement in the plan.

Can you give us some idea of how many community members were were gave input into this?

What was the breadth of participation?

So the in the public meetings, we had a series of five public meetings, we had anywhere from 20 to 40 people at those meetings.

Um, and I will say the folks that a lot of the folks that went to those stayed a long time.

You know, we had food, we had table setups, people hung out and talked and gave us a lot of good ideas.

We had a lot of good conversation there.

Um with the focus groups, you know, we had a wide variety of the businesses and industries and property owners and different organizations represented there.

So that was I not sure what that number was, you know, 20 to 30 folks that were a part of that process.

And then, you know, there's a lot of different neighborhoods out there, so we went to a lot of different neighborhood associations as well.

So tried to cover that range.

It's such a big area, you know, you can't possibly get to everybody.

Um, but we did you know door hangers and flyers at businesses and all those little pieces have a lot of those little incidental conversations.

So thank you.

Um, we do have three speakers signed up uh to speak who are here.

Have any of the Zoom participants checked in yet?

Well, you're looking for that.

Um, let's call up Sally Stevens, Brenda Barksdale, and James Bastnight.

If you would come to the window side of the room.

Good evening.

Mayor Vaughn, City Councilman, and the City and Manager, Ms.

Trey Davis.

I am Brenda Artist Barksdale, and I represent Randman Road Carter.

Um I was here back in July on July the 8th.

We got in the yellow flashlight at Randoman Road in MetaView.

And Mr.

Trey Davis, the city manager stated that Hannah was looking in at the situation finding funds.

Okay.

Come back on September the second for the city council meeting.

And Mr.

Tor uh Trey Davis, City Manager stated, we are working and making sure it happens.

It might take up to three months.

Well, we've been asking for this light for a long time, and I did send the city manager copy of the uh from North Carolina State of the Transportation regarding the safety, uh, Random Road and Metavieu, which has been six deaths there at the intersection.

Okay.

I don't know whether Mr.

Davis got the letter or not, but I do have copies, but I won't go over it again.

But I just want y'all to know we do need this light.

Now the city can fund the Tanger Center and support in the Coliseum.

Well, our safety is concerned also for the community for the intersection, like I say.

And I had a friend to get kid there at the intersection.

So we would appreciate it.

If y'all would let us know what's the update on this situation.

If the manager or the city council and somebody can give us some information update on this, we would appreciate it very much.

Okay, thank you so much, Miss Barksdale.

I did receive your information, and we did have follow-up with NCDOT.

Our indication is that they will have installation prior to the end of this year, which we know it's it's almost the last month in the year.

Um, but we will follow up with them again tomorrow.

I know that our folks have a meeting uh with them tomorrow.

We'll follow up again.

Okay, I'd appreciate it.

Uh you do have my address uh if you can get in contact with me so I can let our community know.

Yes, ma'am.

Thank you.

We thank y'all for your service and have a blessed night.

God bless you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And now I'll thank Ms.

Hyattow for working with us for so long on this.

Good evening.

I am Sally Stevens, and I am a local business owner, owner operator.

My husband and I own and operate Tri-Ed Meat Company here in Greensboro.

We have been in business for over 65 years.

30 of those we have been on Random Road in the South Corridor of Greensboro, which is where we're looking at and showing improvements and working to help us all there.

Um, we are one of the oldest independent businesses on Randoman Road.

A lot of businesses have come and gone in the time we have been there.

Um, so we're truly blessed to have a community that supports us the way they do to have kept us there for as long as they have.

So we're grateful for that.

Um, we're here to ask you to adopt the plan for the revitalization of the South Greensboro area tonight.

Um, with the plans that have been drawn, we all will have an opportunity to grow and thrive in our community, not just survive, which I think is what we're all here seeking for.

Um, not just business owners, but obviously residents and neighbors to us as well.

Um, these plans are not just for the local businesses, but also the longtime and the new residents that we're looking to have come into our area to keep it growing, to keep it fresh, to keep it new.

Um, we no longer need to be a forgotten corridor in Greensboro.

We reside on a main road taking you directly to the heart of downtown Greensboro.

So I think we would want it to be nice, well kept, clean, and beautified to where people are inspired to drive that road.

Um, but if that don't just stop at us, go all the way across the bridge, go all the way down Randaman Road.

The whole drive takes you to downtown Greensboro.

So don't just stop in part of us.

Keep going.

We, as well as many of our neighbors have spent the last year meeting with Mr.

Hart and Miss Krista and showing up here to speak amongst you all and ask for these things.

We have shared our concerns and our needs.

They have helped to design this plan, which shows to bring the improvements we are seeking for our area.

We are seeing their work already, and we are grateful for that with newly installed and working street lights.

What a difference a bright light makes.

But there is still a lot to be worked on as we know.

Speeding traffic, terrible on Randoman Road.

It's 35 miles an hour.

Find me one person who's driving it.

Those are things that are not safe for our customers and our older residents as well who are coming in and out of our areas and our neighborhoods, our parking lots.

It's making it more difficult and challenging for them, and obviously that safety is needed there, as well as holding business owners accountable for the upkeep of their properties, whether they're vacant or they're occupied.

Somebody still owns the business, somebody should still be held accountable for keeping it nice, clean, and fresh looking.

Small steps will help keep our neighborhood safer and cleaner.

Our goal is to be able to thrive and grow for generations to come right here in our home community, not be driven out of our area.

So again, we are here to ask our council to approve and adopt the South Greensboro Plan.

Our community needs us to continue to be here to provide them with the fresh meats and groceries we have for the past 65 years.

Keeps us from having food desert problems in our area.

We also need new retail stores and family-friendly restaurants to join our community.

If you ride through their area, name me two restaurants that you'll take your family to tonight and sit down and have dinner.

But we need your help to make it an inviting and safe area to invest in.

So let's all come together and agree to pass this plan and make our neighborhood better than it's ever been.

But again, don't just stop at us, go all the way down Random and Road.

Thank you for your time.

You all have a blessed evening.

Thank you.

Good evening.

My name is James Spice Knight.

I am the executive director of the Random and Road Community Association Inc., a tax example organization.

I'm not just going to say 501c3 for everybody don't know what that is.

And I am honored to be here too.

And I thank Mr.

Russ Boyer and the City Planning Committee for keeping us engaged in the process of the development of the South Side Plan and the Random Road Quarter.

We certainly thank you.

My association, what we do, we advocate for resources and collaborate with city staff, businesses along Ranneman Road to get resources in our area.

We want you to know that we're in support of the South Side area plan for Random Road.

I want to thank you all for listening to our concern as we did the process.

Thank you very much.

Please let's get this done before we can get started on revitalizing that side of town.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I don't believe that our Zoom speakers have signed on.

That is all of the speakers I have signed up right now who are in the council chambers.

Do I have a motion to close the public hearing?

So moved by Mayor Pro Tem, seconded by Mr.

Holston.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

And that passes 920.

Comments or motions.

Madam Mayor, I would like to move that we approve and adopt the South Area Plan.

It's very near and dear to me.

So I'd like to make that motion and get us started on the way to, as Mr.

Bass Knight says, revitalization of the area.

I know it's a little bit long time coming.

But I think this plan has been done very well.

It's very considerate of people's wishes, what they want to see in their community.

And the timeline was done very quickly from the time I brought it up to the time it got started and we funded it.

And the engagement, Ms.

Thurm was very robust.

I mean, people were on virtual meetings as well.

Sometimes only one or two, but sometimes it's one or two that make a difference.

And so we, you know, just because a whole group of people didn't show up doesn't mean it's not a good plan.

Um good ideas come out of that, and I'm thankful for that.

Um, as I look through this plan, can envision what Random Road is going to look like in the South area.

All of Randomer Road can look like this.

And so, you know, as you know, there was money allocated to corridors, and this is one of the corridors that money was allocated toward looking at Randomer Road area.

Um, but um I'm excited about what is going to happen because of this plan.

Um, so I'm hoping and knowing that we'll find the money to get this done.

I'm excited that we're working with retail strategies, um, which I think is we've been working with them for a while to find ways to incentivize businesses to come to the corridor.

Um, we offer incentives for a lot of things, um, and so I think it's a great idea to do that so that we have healthy food places to eat and shop.

Um, and I know people want retail to come as well.

And um, with all the jobs we have coming and the residents moving into the area, it's all gonna be needed.

Um, and so I think it's gonna be the best looking corridor and in the city.

Um so that was moved by Mrs.

Hightower and seconded by Dr.

Wells.

Council, please vote.

And that passes 920.

Um we'll now move on to item H2.

Item H2 is a public hearing for an ordinance for rezoning for properties at 1018 R1 and 1028 South Josephine Boyd Street, Nick Blackwood for Domus HP 1 LLC.

We do have uh number of speakers signed up.

Um all seem to be in favor, um, except I don't have in favor or opposed for Nancy Link.

Are you in favor or opposed?

In favor?

Okay.

We'll have our presentation first.

Mr.

Kirkman.

Yes, thank you, Mayor Vaughn and members of City Council.

Good evening.

The request before you is a rezoning request from R5 residential single family to conditional district residential multifamily.

Zoning that surrounds the property uh is CDRM26 residential multifamily to the north, east and south of the request are zoned R5 residential single family, and to the west is a combination of R5 residential single family as well as PUD plan unit development.

The subject properties are currently undeveloped at this time.

North of the request are multifamily dwellings, east, south, and west of the request are single family dwellings.

The property is designated as a combination of residential multifamily and residential one to two family and office conversions in the adopted Glenwood neighborhood plan.

And if council approves the zoning request this evening, the plan would uh the Glenwood plan would be amended so that the entire site would be designated residential multifamily.

The site is also designated as urban central on the future built form map of the comprehensive plan.

This is a conditional application.

Uh the applicant is requesting two additional conditions to be added to the request this evening, and I'll read those into the record for the council.

Uh new condition number four, no vertical development shall be permitted within 75 feet of the South Josephine Boyd Street right of way.

And new condition number five, no more than 47 dwelling units shall be permitted.

Ask the council to accept those conditions.

Move the conditions.

Moved by um Mrs.

Hightower, seconded by Mrs.

Thurm.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Thank you.

Uh, in recommending approval of the requests, the city staff has noted that this does support the comprehensive plans creating great places goal to expand Greensboro's citywide network of unique neighborhoods, offering residents of all walks of life, a variety of quality housing choices, and that the district does allow residential disities similar to existing uses in close proximity and limits potential impacts on nearby properties.

Staff notes that development should uh respect nearby residential development in terms of building orientation, materials, height, and visual buffers to ensure an appropriate transition to the lower density residential uses that are located along South Josephine Boyd Street.

The uh item were heard at the October 20th Planning and Zoning Commission meeting.

The commission voted to uh approve the uh request.

There was one speaker in favor and seven speakers in opposition because this did trigger an amendment to the Glenwood neighborhood plan, that's what brings us before city council this evening.

I can answer any questions.

Any questions for Mr.

Kirkman?

I don't have one request.

Yes, ma'am.

So we have to trigger the amendment, and I get that.

Does each time something occurs over there, the plan still has to come back for another amendment?

If the rezoning request is deemed to be triggering a need to change the plan, we do have some zoning requests in that area that did not trigger plan amendments, so those would follow the typical process with the planning and zoning commission.

But that won't have a negative impact on the plan, but correct, right?

And the idea with the plan is that if there is something that triggers an amendment, then there's opportunity for additional conversation because there's an additional public hearing before the city council.

Yeah, I just want to make sure that the neighborhood is always made aware of anything that comes that could trigger it.

Yes, yes.

Because there's what a 60-day um notification.

For this specific plan, there was a 60-day period that was built in to allow that.

Um as you know, unfortunately, we didn't communicate that as well as we should have to the neighborhood on there.

Uh, but that the overall intent is to allow for additional conversation with the neighborhood, which has occurred with this conversation.

Just making sure that perhaps that needs to be written in again somewhere who is responsible for this.

We've made some changes on our end to make sure that we're accounting for that with each of the plans.

Each of the plans has different uh parameters in terms of those conversations, so that's specific to the Glenwood neighborhood plan.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

Mr.

Blackwood.

And can you tell me if any of the Zoom speakers are on for this item?

No.

Madam Mayor, excuse me, and members of council.

My name is Nick Blackwood, 804 Green Valley Road here in Greensboro.

Uh, with me this evening, I have Eli Simon who's the applicant and part of the development team, so he's here to help answer any questions that you all might have.

I wanted to briefly touch on the two zoning conditions that staff just read into the record to be added tonight, um, those two last conditions where we're building in a buffer area off of South Josephine Boyd Street at the request of the uh community association, uh a comment that we heard at the zoning commission hearing.

So we made some revisions to our sketch plan uh to accommodate that request.

We're also putting a firm cap at 47 dwelling units.

So when you look at our RM18 request across the gross acreage, we could get about 55 units.

Um, just not not feasible for our uh development product and our our site constraints.

So we know we're gonna be able to get 47 units.

Wanted to provide some assurance to the neighbors that development would not exceed that 47 unit count.

Uh, conditions two and three that you see underlined, not in bold, those were conditions that were added before the PNZ hearing in response to concerns that we heard from neighbors during our neighborhood meeting and our community outreach.

So those those uh conditions two, three, four, and five, those have all been added in response to concerns heard uh during the process.

Wanted to provide a an aerial overview, just highlighting some of the existing land uses in the area.

So our site outlined in red.

You see, we back up to campus crossing apartments, and that's zoned RM26, CD RM26, uh Spartan Point Apartments to the north of that is in an office zoning district, and we also have an existing use of some light industrial zoning uh to the north there, as well as an additional undeveloped RM18 parcel.

Again, just to reiterate the existing mix of zoning districts that we have in the neighborhood already in proximity.

So this is the sketch plan that was presented at the October P and Z meeting.

And one thing that I want you to note, so and we'll be able to compare and contrast later in the presentation with respect to the revised sketch plan, but we were showing one of our proposed buildings closer to the South Josephine Boyd Street right-of-way, and the neighborhood's future land use plan, uh, which we'll get to in a second.

That portion of the property, that finger fronting South Josephine Boyd Street, that is the portion of the property that's designated for single-family homes and uh home office conversion in the neighborhood plan.

So, in totality, about two-thirds of our site is consistent with the future land use plan.

The western two-thirds calls for RM18 multifamily uh development.

That finger to the the eastern portion of our site fronting South Josephine Boyd, that's where the inconsistency lies.

And you'll be able to see that.

This is an excerpt from that neighborhood plan uh from the future land use plan.

Uh so you'll see an orange there, and it's it might be difficult to see.

You tried to blow that up a bit in that window on the left-hand side of your screen, but you'll see about two-thirds of our site is designated for that residential multifamily use at 18 units per acre, part of that neighborhood plan.

The purple portion is what was was giving us trouble with respect to uh necessitating the plan amendment.

So, one request heard at the zoning commission meeting last month is can we try to reorient our site to get all of our vertical improvements, all of our apartment units on the western side of the property where that multifamily land use is clearly designated in the future land use plan.

And so our engineer was we was able to rework our site.

We now have all of our vertical improvements located on the western portion of the property consistent with that future land use plan, and that's uh that's reflected with that zoning condition that we added prohibiting vertical development up against the South Josephine Boyd Street right-of-way.

We did have a neighborhood meeting in early September.

Um, we we made the um the Glenwood Neighborhood Association aware of this request on August the 5th.

We provided them a copy of this notice letter when it went out.

Uh, we did have several members from that community association attend the meeting, and we've remained in contact uh with the community association throughout the process.

We actually had a call yesterday, uh, which I feel was was fairly positive.

We touched on some of the changes that we've made with the additional conditions and the revisions to our sketch plan.

And with that, I'm I'm happy to answer any questions.

I appreciate that several members from the community association are here, um, and I would like to give them an opportunity to speak with the remainder of the time if they feel so inclined.

Yes, we do have Nancy Link and Casey Thomas signed up to speak.

Ladies, if you'd come to the window side of the room.

Good evening.

My name's Nancy Lank.

I live at 1005 South Josephine Boyd Street.

Last week, I wrote each of you an email asking you to vote no on the proposed change as uh part of our neighborhood plan, which would change our future land use map.

The change would mean changing a plot of land from being zoned residential to multifamily.

Some of my neighbors, along with the president of the Greater Glenwood Neighborhood Association, have met with the developer a couple of times.

I'm now asking you to go ahead and allow the small change to our neighborhood plan.

But I have two things to add to this.

One, traffic has been our main concern regarding building multifamily homes on our street, since it is going to add even more traffic.

We're in talks with the Greensboro Department of Transportation regarding a traffic management plan.

We have a very high score on their traffic assessment, and they are willing to help us figure out a solution regarding volume of traffic and speed.

Support our efforts to control traffic on South Josephine Boyd Street and commit the appropriate resources to get some control over the traffic.

So, you know, we've given up something on our neighborhood plan.

We want something back, some guarantees and some commitments from y'all.

Secondly, I would like to express that this change to the neighborhood plan should not be seen as setting some kind of precedent where other parts of our plan can be changed when a developer wants to do something in our neighborhood.

A lot of time, energy, and thoughtfulness went into our planning process, and we expect it to continue to be our guiding light for our neighborhood unless we determine it needs to be changed.

Lastly, I want to tell you I was insulted by the attitude of all but one of the commissioners on the zoning commission when we met with them last month.

Comments were made that reflected personal attitudes rather than zoning regulations or land use.

Comments about people being able to make money, comments about walkability for students, comments that shrugged off our concerns about our tree canopy, comments that flippantly said maybe you can get some traffic lights without knowing anything about what we've already tried to attempt regarding our traffic.

I just hope this the future city council appoints a zoning commission that listens to the people who already live in the neighborhoods that are destined for changes.

Thank you.

Hi.

Um is Casey Thomas.

I'm at 1041 South Josephine Boyd Street, and I'm here to speak in favor of this, mainly to stave off the potential of something worse.

Um, but we are not thrilled about this, especially the traffic.

I have a letter here from the neighborhood association president and says we're not opposing the request, um, and that we request um support for the traffic management program that, like when we come in with like a request that's gonna actually address like the problems on the street, that it gets taken seriously, and when you guys get asked for budget next cycle for traffic management, that this comes in seriously because what Nancy's referring to the study that the city did, they found that we are number two in the city of all the streets that were studied for pedestrians to be most likely to be injured, right?

And the pedestrian I care most about is two and a half years old and about 36 inches high, okay.

Like I am not playing around with this traffic.

Um and they're trying to add nine percent to the vehicles um on the street, and that for whatever reason, I know it doesn't meet the city's standards for a study, but those standards are what got us into this situation in the first place, and so like it would be really helpful if you guys would fund that.

The other thing is to back up what Nancy said, um, the zoning process and development process collaborating with neighborhoods, they should be as collaborative with neighborhoods as they are with developers.

Um we were told that we should just show up to the meeting um and tell our concerns there.

There was no written communication initially to our neighborhood association president saying that we had to respond formally through the neighborhood association by X date for it to be like included in the like decision, which would already be made by the time we got there for the uh commission's consideration.

If I had not run into someone who happens to work there at the grocery store, I would have had no idea.

This is not like a way to work with the community, and we don't want to feel gone around when people are like trying to build things in our neighborhood.

But um, Dana, I can send it to you.

She wrote a beautiful letter.

I just didn't want to take up more than two minutes of your time.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I don't believe there are any other speakers on this item.

Okay, may um have a motion to close the public hearing.

Moved by Mr.

Holston.

Second, seconded by Mayor Pro Tem.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Okay, that passes.

Um comments or motion.

I I just I wanted to make sure I understood Miss Thomas asking about communication.

Um was was did you not get a letter in the 750 feet?

Say that we could go to the zoning meeting.

Gotcha.

We went to the zoning meeting.

We were invited to meet with the developer before.

We met with the developer.

Okay.

There was another requirement that our neighborhood association officially sent a statement ahead of the meeting before they developed their official recommendation to the zoning commission.

Gotcha.

Okay.

You just have to know what you did first, right?

So when we showed up, like the back of the end of like us actually.

That's okay.

Um thanks, K Sam.

I know we closed the public hearing, but I was kind of unclear about that.

And I'm sorry that they um didn't get notified.

Um I do have a concern, not about the item.

Um, I appreciate the neighborhood working with the attorney and the developer, even though I know they met yesterday um as well to kind of work through some things, like you say, um, 47 units, but at least it's not 74 units, which I think would really be troubling as well.

Um, I would ask that um the developer and the attorney stay in constant communication with the neighborhood so that you know every step of the way, even if you even if everything's going good, fine, but to talk to your to the neighborhood in the community um because they do need to know what's gonna happen in their neighborhood because it's gonna impact them.

Um you know, developers develop, they move on, but neighbors stay, and um Glenwood is a great neighborhood.

Um, and so they don't have a problem embracing some change, but they just want to make sure that it is beneficial for the community.

I would like to ask zoning if there is any way possible that you could change your timeline of notification.

I don't know if there's state required Miss City Attorney, but I do know a lot of times neighbors don't get notification till two weeks sometime, and they don't have enough time to pull it together.

Um sports being that that is a state hall, I would have to go like a tool to see something that could be only useful state hall to what we have stable without seeing.

Well, if moving forward, and um, if you could look in that, I know a few years ago we went from 650 feet to 750, which was the maximum the state would allow.

Um, and so there should be some room there somewhere.

Um two weeks doesn't seem timely, and it hasn't.

So um, and so it does put the neighborhood on a defense, you know, to try to figure out what's going on.

So if you could, Miss City Attorney, look into that.

Um, I would I would certainly appreciate it.

Um, I am glad that the neighborhood came to a little consensus.

I know traffic is a concern, and I hope in uh G Dot will work with the neighborhood to do some traffic calming methods as well, because even 47 units brings in at least 94 people.

Um, and so that's an additional uh concern around traffic, especially on Josephine Board, because it is like a cut-through street, and people don't respect speed limits anyway.

Um, and so it is a concern.

Um so I hope you all will work with them.

But um, and my other concern was, and I think he addressed it already, is that this amendment here doesn't set a precedent for future amendments, they have to be notified, and that 60 days um should be required by staff as well, and not necessarily put it on a developer to meet the 60 days um notification as well.

So I think that'll happen too.

So um, but I think it'll be a nice enhancement to the community, and Glenn will definitely make sure it is and um hold everybody accountable.

So with that being said, I would like to move the item.

Second, is there a second already?

Okay, second.

Uh, if I could also say that um I can see the benefits of this of this uh effort in Glenwood, but also listening to to the residents and understanding that that they do have that issue with traffic already.

Um if there were any way that that traffic could be more focused towards the west of the property on to midway that area.

I know I'm asking a lot here, but uh looking at what's happening on Josephine Boyd, um given what's already in that community and the density that's there, it'd be nice if there were a way that um uh midway could be used for egress and ingress in some type of way.

Um but in general I am in support of the project and look forward to the to the uh additional growth there in Glenwood.

Any other comments?

So that has been um moved by Mrs.

Hightower and seconded by Mr.

Holston.

Council, please vote and that passes 9 to 0.

Madam Mayor's statement of consistency, please.

Um oh, sorry.

I have it, I added up.

I was waiting for you.

Um the Greensboro City Council believes there's action to recommend approval of the rezoning request for the properties at 1018 R1 and 1028 South Josephine Board Street from R5 residential single family five to CDRM 18 Conditional District Residential Multifamily 18 to be consistent with the adopted GSO 2040 comprehensive plan and considers the action taken to be reasonable and in the public interest for the following reason.

The request is consistent with the comprehensive plans, future built form map and future land use map.

The proposed CDRM 18 zoning district as conditioned permits uses that fit the content of the surrounding area and limits negative impacts on adjacent properties.

The request is reasonable due to the size, physical conditions, and other attributes of the area.

It will benefit the property owner and surrounding community, and approval is in the public interest.

Council please vote.

Yeah, I know, but since we did the statement of consistency, uh how about this?

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed that passes unanimously.

That work?

Okay, all right.

We will move on to item H 3 and 4.

Item H3 is a public hearing for an ordinance annexing territory into the corporate limits for the property located at 2882 Fleming Road and a portion of Fleming Road right of way, 1.59 acres, Doris Henson, and item H4, a public hearing for an ordinance for original zoning for property at 2882 Fleming Road and a portion of Fleming Road right of way for Doris E.

Henson and the City of Greensboro.

I do not have any speakers on this item.

Mr.

Kirkman.

Yes, thank you, Mayor Vaughn.

Again, the request is for annexation and original zoning from County RS 40 residential single family to city R3 residential single family.

North, East and West request is zone Summerfield RS residential.

South request is zone both Summerfield RS residential and city R3 residential single family.

The subject property currently contains a single family dwelling.

North, east, south, and west requests are also single family dwellings.

This property is designated residential on the future land use map of the comprehensive plan and its urban general on the future built form map.

And the proposed R3 zoning district provides uses that are similar to those in the area, and again, staff is recommending approval of the requests.

These items went to the October 20th Planning and Zoning Commission, and the Commission recommended both the annexation and the original zoning request.

There were no speakers at that meeting.

I can answer any questions.

Any questions for Mr.

Kirkman?

Um comments or motions.

Okay.

Moved by Mrs.

Thurm.

Seconded by Mayor Pro Tem.

Council, please vote.

Councilmember Holston.

And that passes 9 to 0.

Um item H4 will require a statement of consistency.

Do I have moved by Mrs.

Thurm?

Seconded by Mr.

Holston.

The Greensboro City Council believes that its action to approve the original zoning request for the property at 2882 Fleming Road and a portion of Fleming Road right away from County RS40 to City R3 to be consistent with the adopted GSO 2040 Comprehensive Plan and considers the action taken to be reasonable and in the public interest for the following reasons.

The request is consistent with the comprehensive plan's future belt format and future land use map.

The proposed city R3 zoning district permits uses that fit the context of the surrounding area and limits negative impacts on adjacent properties.

Three, the request is reasonable due to the size, physical conditions, and other attributes of the area.

It will benefit the property owner and surrounding community and approvals in the public interest.

And that passes 9 to 0.

We'll now move on to H5 and H6.

H5 is a public hearing for an ordinance annexing territory into the corporate limits for the property located at 4304 Farlow Drive.46 acres, Linda and John Cooper, and item H6, a public hearing for an ordinance for original zoning, 4304, Farlow Drive, Linda and John Cooper.

We do have let's see.

We do have Mr.

Cooper here in favor.

Can you tell me if Mr.

Killett is on Zoom?

No.

So we have one speaker in favor.

Mr.

Kirkman.

Yes, thank you, Mayor Vaughn.

Again, the request this evening is uh annexation and original zoning request.

Excuse me, from County RS40 residential single family to City R3 residential single family.

North of this request is zoned a combination of county RS 40 and County RS20, both residential single family districts.

East of the request is zone county RS 40.

South of request is zone county C Z R S 20, which is conditional zoning, residential single family, and West request is zone county RS40 residential single family.

The subject property is currently undeveloped at this time.

North, east, and south of request are single family dwellings.

West of request is combination of undeveloped land and single family dwellings.

The property is designated as residential on the future land use map of the comprehensive plan and its urban general on the future built four map.

In supporting the requests, staff notes that this does support the comprehensive plans creating great places goal to expand Greensboro citywide network of unique neighborhoods, offering residents of all walks of life a variety of quality housing choices, and the filling in our framework big idea to arrange our land uses for we live, work, attend school, shop, and enjoy our free time to create a more vibrant and livable Greensboro.

Proposed R3 zoning district is intended to accommodate low density single family detached residential development that's similar to the uses on the adjacent lots, and again staff recommends approval.

This items were heard at the October 20th Planning and Zoning Commission, and the Commission did recommend approval of both the annexation and original zoning.

There were no speakers at that hearing.

Good evening, Mayor Council.

Could you get a little closer to the mic?

Okay.

Good evening, Mayor Council.

Yes, I just wanted to uh be present for the meeting.

Um I didn't really have any uh questions or concerns.

I just wanted to be present.

Okay, any questions for Mr.

Cooper?

Okay.

Well, thank you for being here.

Thank you.

Um can I have a motion to close the public hearing?

Second.

Moved by Dr.

Wells, seconded by Mayor Pro Tem.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Okay, that passes nine to zero.

Um do we have um any motions or comments?

So move.

Moved by Mrs.

Hightower.

Seconded by Mr.

Holston.

Council, please vote.

That passes nine to zero.

I need a statement of consist consistency for H6.

The Greensboro City Council.

Wait, can I get a second on that?

Seconded by Mayor Pur Tem.

Please go ahead.

Okay.

You want to vote first?

Good.

Okay.

The Greensboro City Council believes that his action to recommend approval of the original zoning request for the property at 4304 Farlow Drive from County RS 40 residential single family to City R3 residential single family three to be consistent with the adopted GSO 2040 comprehensive plan and considers the action taken to be reasonable and in the public interest for the following reason.

The request is consistent with the comprehensive plans, future built form map and future land use map.

The proposed city R3 zoning district permits uses that fit the content of the surrounding area and limits negative impacts on adjacent properties.

The request is reasonable due to the size, physical conditions, and other attributes of the area.

It will benefit the property owner and surrounding community, and approval is in the public interest.

Thank you.

Council, please vote.

And that passes 9 to 0.

Now we'll move on to items H7 and H8.

H7 is a public hearing for an ordinance annexing territory into the corporate limits for the property located at a portion of 801 Z Z Roberson Comer Road 1.69 acres.

William J.

Berry on behalf of WJB Investment Group LLC.

And item H8, a public hearing for an ordinance for original zoning for properties at 801, 801 Z, 803, and 815 Roberson Comer Road.

Nathan Duggins on behalf of Jesse H.

Washburn and others.

Mr.

Kirkman.

Yes, thank you.

Mayor Vaughn.

This request this evening is an annexation original zoning and rezoning.

You can see on the map the uh small area in white here is piece of property that is not currently in the city's jurisdiction, and so as part of this development request, they are asking that that to be included in the city's jurisdiction.

The existing zoning on the properties are a combination of county AG agricultural, R3 residential, single family, and PUD planning unit development, and the request is to rezone and original zone the property to City Conditional District Residential Multifamily 12.

North of the request is currently zoned a combination of City R 3 residential single family and CD RM5, Conditional District Residential Multifamily.

East of the request is zone city PUD.

South of the request is zone city R3 and City PUD Planning Unit Development, and West of the request is zone city R3.

The subject properties are primarily undeveloped.

There is a small boat and RV storage area on a portion of the properties.

North of the request are single family dwellings and undeveloped land.

East of the request contains a portion of Lake Jeanette.

South request is a portion of Interstate 840 and West request are single family dwellings.

The properties are designated as residential on the future land use map of the comprehensive plan and as urban general on the future built form map.

This is a conditional application, so there are two conditions associated with the request as you see on your screen.

Staff is recommending approval requests based on its supporting the comprehensive plans creating great places goal to expand Greensboro citywide network of unique neighborhoods, offering residents of all walks of life, a variety of quality housing choices, and the building community connections goal to maintain stable, attractive, and healthy places to live and raise families.

The requested CDRM12 zoning district does allow uses that are similar to existing uses in the surrounding area.

Staff notes care should be taken with respect to building orientation, materials, height, and visual buffers to ensure appropriate transitions to lower density residential uses on adjacent properties.

These requests were heard by the Planning and Zoning Commission at their October 20th meeting.

The commission did recommend approval of both the annexation and the original zoning and rezoning at that meeting, and there were no speakers that night.

I can answer any questions.

Any questions for Mr.

Kirkman?

Okay.

Mr.

Duggins.

Madam Mayor, Madam Mayor, elect members of city council.

I'm Nathan Duggins, 400 Bellambeat Street Suite 800 here on behalf of the applicant.

Madam Mayor, I don't know if there are there any other speakers.

Um no, I don't have any speakers aside from you.

Great.

So you can do the short version.

Yeah, I'll do the short version.

Um I won't even click through this presentation.

Great in field development.

Mr.

Kirkman did a wonderful job presenting it.

Uh we've assembled three pieces of property.

This is actually the last tip of the old Lake Jeanette PUD that was done in 1991.

That's uh being rezoned.

You can see from Mr.

Kirkman's uh presentation.

There's some future development coming to the north.

We think it's a great infill.

We're here to answer any questions.

Mr.

Yarns, Mr.

Earns, can you raise your hand far back there?

Is here to answer any questions as well.

Any questions for Mr.

Duggins?

Move to close the public hearing by Mr.

Matheny, seconded by Mrs.

Hoffman.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed.

That passes nine to zero.

Um now is the time for comments or a motion on H7, which is the annexation.

Moved by Mr.

Matheny.

Seconded by Mrs.

Hoffman.

Council, please vote.

Please tell me there's no statement.

And then I will need a statement of consistency for H8.

That passes 920.

Uh moved by Mr.

Matheny, seconded by Mr.

Holston.

Greensville City Council believes that it's action to approve the residental zoning and rezoning requests for the properties at 801, 801 Z, 803.

What's that say?

815 Robertson Comer Road from County AG to that in City R 3 and City PUD to City C D R M 12 to be consistent with the adopted GC GSC 2040 comprehensive plan.

Considers the action taken to be reasonable and in the public interest for the following reasons.

The request is consistent with the comprehensive plans, future bill form map and the future land use map.

Gary, the whole thing.

Folks, this is tough getting old.

Um the proposed city CD RM12 zoning district as conditioned permits uses that fit the context of the surrounding area and limits negative impacts on adjacent properties.

The request is reasonable due to the size, physical conditions, and other attributes of the area.

It will benefit the property owner and surrounding community, and approval is in the public interest.

Council, please vote.

And that passes 9 to 0.

Thank you.

We'll now move on to items H9 and H10.

Item H9 is a public hearing for an ordinance annexing territory into the corporate limits for a portion of 8318 Lazy Sky Lane 3941 and 3943 Casillus Way.

Amanda Williams for Dillon Ridge Properties LLC and Item H10, a public hearing for an ordinance for original zoning for portions of 8318 Lazy Sky Lane 3941 and 3943 Casillus Way and Lazy Sky Lane right away.

Amanda Williams for Dillon Ridge Partners LLC.

Mr.

Kirkman, and I do know that Ms.

Williams is here if we have questions.

Yes, thank you, Mayor Vaughn.

This is actually some remnant parcels from when the road was developed years ago that were not originally part of the uh ownership of the land by the Dillon Ridge partners.

Uh they have since acquired the land and want to include this with their subdivision.

That's what brings us before council this evening.

The request is from County A G to City Conditional District Residential Single Family.

North of the request is zone county RS40 residential single family.

East, south, and west of the request is city CDR5 Conditional District residential single family.

The subject properties uh currently contain portions of uh some lots that are part of a subdivision that's currently under construction.

North of request are single family dwellings, east, south, and west requests are that again that's single family subdivision that's under construction.

These properties were designated agricultural area on the adoptive Western Area Plan and Urban General and the future built format of the comprehensive plan.

This is a conditional application.

There is one condition that is associated with the request, as you can see on the screen.

This request does support the comprehensive plans filling in our framework big idea to arrange our land uses for where we live, work, attend, school, shop, and enjoy our free time to create a more vibrant and livable greensboro, and the proposed district does permit uses similar to existing uses in the surrounding area and reflects changes in land use patterns and additional public infrastructure since the original adoption of the Western Area Plan.

This item was heard by the Planning and Zoning Commission at their October 20th meeting.

The commission did recommend both the annexation and original zoning, and there were no speakers at that hearing.

I can answer any questions.

Thank you.

Any comments for Mr.

Kirkman?

Um motion.

No, there wasn't anybody.

Um moved by Mrs.

Thurm, seconded by Dr.

Wells.

Council, please vote.

Okay, that passes 9 to 0.

Um item H10 requires statement of consistency.

Moved by Mrs.

Thurm.

Do I have a second?

Seconded by Mr.

Holston.

The Greensboro City Council believes that its action to approve the original zoning request for the properties at portions of 8318 Lazy Sky Lane 3941 and 3943 Casillus Way and the Lazy Sky Lane right of way from County AG to City C D R5 to be consistent with the adopted GSO 2040 comprehensive plan and considers the action taken to be reasonable in the public interest for the following reasons.

The request is consistent with the comprehensive plans future belt form map and future land use map.

The proposed city CDR5 zoning district is conditioned, permits uses that fit the context of the surrounding area and limits negative impacts on adjacent properties.

The request is reasonable due to the size, physical conditions, and other attributes of the area, it will benefit the property owner and surrounding community and approvals in the public interest.

Council, please vote.

And that passes 9 to 0.

We've had a number of zoning items on our agenda today.

Two years later.

Well, in 2009, 2010, we had very, very few rezonings.

And of course, that was right after right during the recession.

But I have to say that we really have had a number of rezonings over the last few years.

And since the city manager um brought his plan out, the road to 10,000 just about 10 months ago, we're already about 25% there.

So Mr.

City Manager, I hope to hear an update at some point where it's the road to 20,000, because I will tell you that the interest in the city of Greensboro is far and wide, and most of that growth is occurring in East Greensboro.

There has been a boom of growth that way, and the number of houses that are being built and the developers that we have interested, I know that this is going to continue, and I'll be really anxious to see how it all unfolds.

I think the future is very bright.

Now we will move on to our general business agenda.

Item H1 is an ordinance amending Chapter 11, Article 2, Division 3, Section 11.48 of the Greensboro Code of Ordinances with respect to the powers and duties of the Minimum Housing Standards Commission.

Let's see.

So we'll have him first, followed by William Furlow, Malaya James, and Tracy Furman.

Do we have our Zoom speaker up?

Yeah, hello.

Yes.

If you would give us your name, and you have three minutes.

And I'm currently serving on the minimum house and our commission.

Good evening again.

Because I believe that your move to uh take away the commission's ability to inspect housing alongside with uh compliant code compliance like going against what you know the future of Greensboro want, which is uh uh objectivity in whatever the city council is doing.

And I think uh we know that you appointed us not only to represent the citizens of Greensboro, but also to be like your advisors on matters like these, so that fairness and uh the service that we are expected to provide as commissioners can be also provided.

So I'm not really sure why something that is working should go away.

So I I'm here to urge you not to take away disability from the commission.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Good evening.

Uh I'm Bill Furlow.

I live at uh 1801-C Breastfield Road.

Breastfield Road.

Um, I'm a member of the Minimum Housing Standards Commission.

As uh Councilwoman Hoffman and Councilman Polston know, I lobbied for a year and a half to be appointed to this commission because I thought it would be a place that I could uh make a difference, do something good for other people.

But in the six months that I've been on there, the commission has not done one thing of consequence.

We've not done one thing that changed anyone's life.

We've not done one thing that I can recall that even had anything to do with minimum housing standards.

So you're gonna hear a lot of other people speak tonight, and probably many of them will be more passionate than I am, and a lot of them have toiled in these fields a lot longer than I have.

But I believe that what you're gonna hear is that people in this community want this commission to be functioning, to be important, to make a difference.

I think probably whether you uh remove these authorities or you don't.

I hope you won't do it.

But if you do it or you don't, I think the world is gonna look pretty much the same tomorrow morning as it does tonight.

But what I hope you will take away from this is that people want this body to do something that's effective and that actually is helping people who need the help as it currently stands.

We wield a mean rubber stamp.

Every decision that we have made since I've been on this commission has been a unanimous vote to affirm what the city staff has already figured out needs to be done.

I hope that after this, whatever you do tonight, that after this, this commission will not just fade from your memories, but that this experience and this outpouring of of uh feelings about it will um lead you to engage with us to let us sit down together and figure out some ways that this commission can be more powerful and more effective.

I hope you vote no, but more important than that.

I hope you'll remember us tomorrow, and let's engage and figure out ways for this commission to make a difference.

Thank you.

Good evening, council members.

My name is Malia Imes, and I lead the eviction court watch here in the Greensboro Courthouse.

Every week in eviction court, my team and I hear from tenants who are living in conditions that no family should ever have to endure.

On a typical week, we hear eight to ten separate stories from people across the city describing the same issues, mold leaks, HVAC systems that don't work, rodents, insects, sewage problems, and plumbing failures.

We watched one woman forced to sue her apartment complex because they refused to repair a leak.

Her belongings were covered in mold, and the complex was still delaying and denying responsibility.

She paid out of pocket for her own.

Let me back up because apparently I'm talking a lot.

She paid out of pocket for her own independent mold study, which showed the mold levels were approximately four times higher than what is considered safe.

She had to prove for her own living conditions because no one with authority stepped in soon enough.

We also witnessed a gentleman who was on the verge of receiving a possession order, about to lose his home until he spoke up in a court about having no running water for three weeks.

A maintenance worker was fixing a consistent sink issue, then shut their water off and never returned to turn it back on.

Three weeks, no water, and he was almost evicted anyway.

These aren't one-time tragedies.

These are patterns.

The same buildings show up in eviction court over and over again.

The LLC names may change, but the complexes don't.

The conditions don't change, and the harm to tenants certainly doesn't change.

And here's what matters tonight.

Eviction outcomes routinely shift when judges learn about open code violations or unsafe conditions.

Documented code issues can determine whether a family is evicted or given time repairs or a different disposition entirely.

That's why the Minimum Housing Standard Commission matters.

It is one of the only public bodies where tenants can raise ignored conditions where patterns of neglect are visible and where accountability can happen in the open.

Right now, while rent climbs and properties cycle through shell companies, tenants are the only ones bearing the cost of unsafe housing.

So tonight, we are asking you to delay the vote on reducing the responsibilities of the MHSC before making any changes.

Hold a meeting where you hear from tenants.

Hear from people who are living with mold at four times above safe levels.

Hear from people who go without water for weeks, hear from the families who face eviction because of conditions they did not create.

This is not the time to weaken oversight.

This is the time to listen, and this is a time to shrink the systems that keep Greensboro families safe in house.

Thank you.

After Ms.

Furman, we have Lewis Pitts, Arya Rose, and Angela Nichols.

Good evening.

I'm Tracy Ferman.

I reside at 1007 Pisca Church Road 27455.

It's a quasi-judicial commission.

We make hard decisions that are pivotal moments in people's lives.

Until 2021, I felt that we were truly helping people while bringing homes into compliance.

And then the city attorney at the time decided to use the MHSC to blame for his own lack of ability to prosecute the slum lords that killed five children.

We were bullied, threatened removal, and some commissioners were removed and replaced with people that would not rock the boat.

Some of those replacements never showed up.

We were short to commissioners for four years, making quorum sometimes difficult.

The last four years have been consistent attempts to control what the MHSC does, regardless of the state statutes or city ordinance.

The MHSC continues to do the job that is mandated about housing and making decisions about housing that are defendable in court, and if they're not defendable, we'd vote no.

After four years, many of the reminders and many reminders that we could be replaced if we did not play nice, I had hoped a change in our city attorney's office would end that.

Apparently that's not the case.

One question before you tonight is about whether or not the MHSC can report to staff and ask staff to create a report on rental rates.

Something I would think that would be an important information for you when the time comes on discussing economics in our community.

However, I know from a Freedom of Information Act request that you receive this information through RealPage, the very company under indictment in seven states, including ours, and the and that the MHSC uh warned you about in a letter in our July 2024 meeting.

Nowhere in chapter 11 does it say that it has to be a formal study or that the commission could not direct city staff to do it.

Additionally, this directive has nothing to do with rental control that has been suggested.

Also before you is the removal of the ability to visit a case in question with an inspector.

In my entire tenure, we never felt the need to do this.

However, there is a general statute, there is no, I'm sorry, there's no general statute governing this, and the NC judicial code of conduct allows this within parameters that are already met within the ordinance we have.

This only seems to have become an issue when renters invited us to come and see their apartments because they did not have heat for two years.

They had bad plumbing, all the things my prior speaker said.

And honestly, I think the threat of us coming to visit was what helped him to spur and jump into action.

These last two changes only came after the last MHSC meeting, and instead of creating a positive working environment, it became punitive.

This does not help the MHSC.

It is a man in its mandate, nor does it help our citizens who are in the awful position of potentially losing their home.

And lastly, it does not help you in information that will help you make better decisions.

I ask you to vote no against the Chapter 11 changes.

Thank you.

Good evening.

My name is Lewis Pitts.

I live here in Greensboro.

And as we all know from what we've heard, and I support the previous speakers, affordable housing is one of the most important issues for all of us, a relative child, somebody is struggling.

Let me see if I can make very simple what could be a complicated matter.

Let's start with a sequence.

At the end of President Biden's term in 2024, the U.S.

Justice Department of Justice, along with the Attorney General of North Carolina, and about seven other states, filed a lawsuit here in Greensboro in the federal court in Greensboro, alleging that an $8 billion, 8B with a billion dollar corporation called RealPage, which is a property management firm that gets money from landlords that that entity was engaging in a monopoly.

They were rigging rents to go high.

They were taking in, they called in the lawsuit granular data from all of these landlords and rigging it so the rents would go up.

Our Fair Housing Commission studied that issue.

One of the first things listed in the ordinance that's trying to be amended tonight, is that their responsibilities include study rental rates.

They did.

They did their homework.

They voted unanimously.

They sent a letter to this commission and said, please join in support of that federal lawsuit, and let's investigate and stop landlords rigging rents to go up.

What has happened?

Nothing.

Except then City Attorney Chuck Watts was asked, what about this?

You know what his answer was?

That housing commission, these volunteers that get no pay that had studied it.

He said they have no business looking into that, and we can throw them off the commission if we need to.

Now think about that.

Now that was presented to City Council probably months ago.

They've done nothing on it.

Except what does the city staff come back here?

And what is before you tonight?

They say, look at if you've got the paperwork, strike the words, take away the jurisdiction of this commission to study rental rates.

And two things take away the duty to study rental rates, and don't let the commission go with a tenant and let the tenant say, there's the raw stewage.

This is one of the most outrageous, absurd uh unfairnesses that we could come to and watch the mumbo jumbo that's discussed as why there may be a probability that they're gonna vote to eradicate that jurisdiction of that body.

It's an outrage.

Thank you.

Hi folks, uh, my name is Arya Rose.

I am a renter here in Greensboro.

I live at 2714 Robin Hood Drive, and I'm here tonight to urge City Council to delay the vote on the uh adjusting the powers and duties of the Minimum Housing Standards Commission, which would remove the Commission's power to study rental rates as well as its power to inspect housing and living quarters.

According to an article on the WFDD published on November 17th, the council is considering this change due to a concern about the privacy of Greensboro residents as well as a concern about the quasi-judicial judicial nature of the MHSC and its relationship to North Carolina state law.

In a yes weekly article published on November 5th, multiple counselors, including Councilwoman Hightower and Councilwoman Thurmind that these issues needed time, consideration, and input from the community before a decision can be made.

I agree with that sentiment.

However, I will take that sentiment a step further.

It would be entirely inappropriate for this city council as it sits today to vote on this issue.

We are only weeks away from a new city council being sworn in.

Delay this vote until the new city council is sworn in and has a chance to look at this issue and speak to the greater Greensboro community about it themselves.

Delaying this vote is not just the right thing to do, but the democratic thing to do.

Additionally, I will end my comments with this.

For many many renters in Greensboro, myself included, the MHSC is the most successful way for us to seek justice for wrongdoings done by our landlords.

And while the concerns about tenant privacy may be valid, one thing is for sure.

Entirely removing the MHSC's ability to inspect living spaces does far more to protect a landlord's ability, ability to neglect, abuse, and overcharge their tenants, then it will protect the privacy of the tenants living in those rented spaces.

Thank you.

After Angela Nichols, we have Albina Ray, Sammy Schwartz, Terrell Dungey, and Sherlin Grattan.

Good evening.

My name is Angela Nichols.

How are you?

I am a tenant of District 5.

I live at uh Village Walk Apartments, which is 3238 South Holden Road.

Um I am here on behalf of myself, my daughter, and my grandchildren, and other tenants of this property.

Um, whenever it comes to code enforcement laws, we need those to be stricter.

Um, I have had code compliance at my apartment two times now in a year.

Um they put their orders in, they send it off to the landlord, excuse me, and nothing is getting done.

Um I have a daughter that also is a resident of the same apartment complex with three young children.

She has had to move out and move into a hotel with her children due to the fact that we have no AC, we have no heat, uh, the black mold in my apartment alone, where my AC unit is, it's in the air.

Like if I turn my AC unit on, you can see literally see particles come out.

You can smell mold and mildew.

I have tried to get up with my councilwoman, Miss Thurm.

Um, I want to say a month ago or more.

Um I understand, you know, with voting and everything, you may not have been able to get back to me, but this is very important to me.

Um, I just feel that nobody is hearing me, you know, nobody cares.

Uh, they just want to take us to eviction court and get us out of there.

Do cover ups like they have done in my apartment with just covering up mold, black mold that is making me sick, is making my son very sick.

Um, and the same was with my my daughter's apartment as well at the same place.

Um, so I'm asking that code compliance go harder on the landlords and the property managers, uh, because where I live, nobody cares what we're going through.

Um, we have insect problems, we have rodent problems, rats, mice, roaches, and nobody's doing anything about it.

Um I don't know what else to say, but just code compliance, like I said, just needs to be stricter on these landlords and these property managers.

Um if you will, ma'am, if you'll make sure that our folks in the back have your contact information.

I don't have any record of um a complaint from you, and I'd be happy to help you with that and work in conjunction with code compliance on that.

If you'll just give them their information, your information, I'll get it from them later, and then be able to reach out to you.

Thank you.

Hello.

My name is Albina Ray.

I live here in Greensboro, and I've been canvassing in support of Keepgate City House.

I oppose this amendment because of who I have met in our work.

At Cottage Gardens in District 1 at the VIC in District 4, and at Village Walk, who we've just heard from, more to come in District 5.

I have met some of the brilliant people that make up this city.

I have also seen the conditions in which these wonderful people live in.

Landlords refuse to remove garbage they have collected additional fees for, backed up in free-flowing sewage, no running water or air conditioning, rats and roaches in their hundreds, and black mold breathed by their children.

Housing codes are the law.

They are no more malleable than laws on petty theft or even murder.

But while police can catch a shoplift, despite the hard work of its officers, code enforcement cannot do its job.

In light of this, what does our city offer?

This amendment, which is an example of the broader abdication of the city's responsibilities to protect the people from the conditions I have mentioned.

It is a bureaucracy seeking to blind itself.

It is reminiscent of the blindness of Soviet authorities and in the disaster at Chernobyl and the disdain they held for the Belarusians and Ukrainians, they left to be irradiated, though not the groundwater beneath them.

From those supporting this motion, High Tower, Therm, perhaps our city attorney's office.

I see a similar disdain for low-income residents in our city.

This does this disdain reminds us as well where landlords, property development, and businessmen rule over regulation and humanity.

It reminds me of Eastern Europe once again, to the gangster era of the 1990s, where in Ukraine and where in Russia former Communist Party officials became corrupt gangsters, silencing and buying and ripping apart regulatory agencies and murdering one another.

In one of these countries, we see inspiration.

In the other of these countries, we see a sickening premonition of our future.

And this disdain that we see to our low-income residents of this city.

It has contributed to the results of this November's election to those losing their seats in this December.

Know this.

You have lost because you have you have failed to protect your people.

The people want courage in the form of social programs and regulations, not the familiar cowardice of throwing the issues at the feet of the market.

To those left standing this December.

Be strong.

Have some courage.

Thank you.

Good evening, everyone.

I'm Sammy Schwartz, and I've been a resident of Greensboro since 1990 and a landlord since 1993.

I began volunteering with the Keep Gate City House organization last year.

Tenants don't have many tools to fight against neglectful landlords and property management companies.

One tool the city provides to help tenants have a safe place to live is the Minimum Housing Standards Commission.

As you know, this commission is made up of community volunteers.

They serve to oversee housing code violations found by the city inspectors.

Instead, I ask this council to continue to support the minimum housing standard commission and help strengthen the renter's ability to stay and remain housed in safe and habitable places to live.

At the very least, please consider delaying the vote of disordinance until the new city council is seated in December.

Thank you.

And there is one speaker I haven't called, um, Jason Hicks.

Hi, my name is Charlotte Groton, and good evening.

I live at 18.

I well, I did up until about two weeks ago.

I lived at 3218, South Holden apartment four, apartment A.

My apartment is a ground, that apartment was a ground apartment.

I live in the same apartment complex as Miss Angie over there that spoke before me.

My apartment, I lived from that from May until this month with rat infestation.

Okay.

I have a small dog.

She is so terrified that you go to touch her.

She'll jump and she'll snap at you.

Because she had to spend all her time in the apartment while I'm at work dealing with this.

Okay.

One night, one day I'm at sitting at my dining room table.

I see him going from the from up underneath the stove and going up underneath that cabinet, just like this.

And then one time I also saw him, I was sitting at my computer on my dining room table, and one of them went for me.

Okay.

I have pictures from the May until now.

Until now, I killed over 20 rats.

They are not small.

They are large rats.

Excuse me, but that's the way I feel about it.

Do you realize what these do what these rodents do?

They bring all kinds of diseases.

Do you remember back during the Middle Ages?

When over in Europe, do you know what the bubonic plague is?

That's what they bring.

Not only that, they bring deer disease.

That's what um uh uh Gene Hatton's wife died of.

They bring all that stuff.

These people need to be accountable held accountable for this, they need to be held accountable because I'm going to tell you right now.

I had I I have never ever in my adult life have lived that way before.

Granted, I grew up in a in an environment and living on a ranch, so a lot of this doesn't bother me.

Everybody's ooh, but it doesn't bother me because I lived around that kind of thing.

Okay, but the thing is that you have to do something about this to make these people accountable for what they have done and what they have to do to get this done.

If not, I feel I think the county should take over the um take over the complex, demolish it, and put up affordable housing for people that are entitled to it.

Mr.

Dungey, thank you.

You're welcome.

Um I'm just gonna call it and oh thank you.

How polite.

The only time the city is polite to the citizens.

Uh I know I am I think uh Miss Cheryland from Village Walks brings up a let me finish.

I'm speaking.

Uh Ms.

Sherlan, she brought up a great point that if these apartment complexes, these landlords, these grifters can't take care of their property.

The city has a mechanism to take those properties back.

It's called the receivership program, which goes in front of Minimum Housing Standard Commission.

If you ever let it get there, we have brought at least three apartment complexes to your attention to the minimum housing commission's attention.

They want to do work.

The cold compliance officers want to do work.

They hate seeing these people moving in with in their toilets, moving in with no toilets, moving her rats as neighbors.

Like the only thing I continue as I've studied this for now two years to see as a hindrance to actually changing how these systems work, is our folks at the dais, our city council and city attorneys.

And I think we really need to pause before we make some action as y'all are leaving.

Uh weird legacy, by the way, really weird.

Uh, but the fact that we want to rush this vote around rent rent rates when we know there are griffs going on, inflating these rates.

Y'all had to step in in 2020, 2021 when they were doing this to elders.

Uh I don't understand this turnaround after again, consistently meeting y'all, you know, nodding your heads, giving us your attention to all these cases, and then y'all do nothing that actually helps people.

So our my big thing now is what what's killing our country right now is that corporations, billionaires, they have more rights than everyday people who make these communities work.

Are we going to continue being a community that is complacent in this behavior of allowing companies, developers to extract from our communities, our people, their pockets, their sanity?

Or are we brave enough to try something different?

Are we brave enough to do Lego vote?

Come from across that dais.

Go see these apartments, don't spend a night in these apartments.

I would love for y'all to really see what people have to put up with.

It's not affordable.

But let's not rush a vote by any means.

Again, tenants have been in front of you pleading for you to do more.

This is nothing.

This is a slight thing for companies.

Can I ask you a question?

You put them out.

It's not like a problem.

I have a seven-year-old woman who can't come because she's so scared of losing her affordable housing.

Good evening, Council Jason Hicks again.

I got a whole thing rolled up, but I just keep seeing and thinking about the word shame because I think that's the only thing that really captures this action.

You know, I think that you've heard from the community on what they would like to see.

Uh and what I imagine is gonna happen is y'all are gonna have a bunch of discussion about why you you don't think that studying rates or rental rates are feasible, um, and why there's a liability issue attached to uh going on properties with tenants and all these things that we could all remedy, right?

But instead, there's a lot of excuses on on what can and can't be done, and I I would just hope that for once, you know, in this last you know, uh political breath that you all have that you would do the right thing and push this to the next council.

I I think that they um you know there's there's a reason some of you weren't re-elected, and that's because you didn't listen to the people.

Um I think that I think that ultimately the best thing that you could do is listen to your constituency.

Um and I don't need you to interrupt me, I don't, you know, thank you though, but I would hope that I I would ask that Hugh uh or Miss Thurm, you know, I I would ask for y'all to have some courage and and set up what the next four years could look like and and be an example to your colleagues.

Um and I would just point out Hugh with the Greensboro Housing Coalition.

I think that this is you should get this, right?

This this shouldn't be a hard thing.

Um and they're also gonna talk about how they disagree with Miss Cud Cubage putting it on the consent agenda.

Um and that's neither here nor there, you know, it doesn't matter.

What matters is that your constituents have come and said they want you to do something, you know, and I've encouraged you to do it.

Uh and and you know, this is really what it looks like.

You know, there's been a lot of reporting from uh Ian McDowell at Yes Weekly and George Hartzman at Public Integrity Watch about the and and I know it's funny to you, right?

But um there's been a lot of reporting about all of these things and how this policy, you know, has been shaped by Trevick.

And I I I see the coalition, you know, the the consistency there, and I would just encourage you all to to do the right thing, listen to your constituency, have some courage to make a motion to uh put this off till December, uh January or whenever, you know.

But you you know, you all weren't chose, you know, to to move forward, and I would encourage you to move this on to the next council and and allow for uh someone that has some sense and creativity to do this.

Thank you.

I believe those are all the speakers on this item.

Has everybody been called okay.

Um comments, motions.

Um Madam City Attorney, I know that you have been listening.

So I have been listening, and I'm trying to articulate something other than the law.

So it's not that I'm a messenger of the law.

Okay, I don't disagree with anything I've heard up here, but I will stress that sometimes in order to get what you may feel is the right thing done, you've got to take it to the right forum.

Greensboro City Council is not the right forum for several reasons.

If you will just indulge me.

When you're talking about rent control, studying rent control rates.

There is no don't I come on.

Don't make my last meeting kick you out.

Okay, so no, they won't.

So just quiet.

When you're asked to, when you're talking about studying rent control rates in 1987, the General Assembly who makes the laws, well, let me back up.

Municipalities only have the power that the General Assembly gives it.

You cannot create the power that you want, whether you want to or not.

You can't create the power that the people that vote for you or not want you to create.

You only have the power that the General Assembly gives you.

If the General Assembly doesn't say yes, the answer is no.

It's not a like regular law.

If the if if the law doesn't say no, then you possibly can.

It's if the law doesn't say yes, then the answer is no.

So in 1987, the General Assembly took the ability for municipalities to control rent away.

That is general statute 42-14.

So even if the commission studied rental rates, first of all, we're talking about the ability and the capacity and the competency to study those rates.

Not a lay person, you have to have some level of expertise to study these rates and make it make sense, if you will.

So that's the issue with the rental rates and why the proposal to remove it, because there's nothing you can do about it.

Then when you go to the commission members walking into or going into a home with an inspector.

So let's talk about quasi judicial.

Quasi is a Latin term that means as if somewhat almost like, then you you couple that with the word judicial.

So that means that these proceedings that these commissioners are holding are almost as if they're in a judicial setting.

So you're as close to being in a courtroom as you can possibly get.

So these commissioners are supposed to be taking evidence, sight unseen, unbiased, with no prejudgment, with no thinking, is just like a judge sitting on a bench.

A judge could not go to go to a murder scene and then sit up on a bench after talking to everyone there and adjudicate that case.

That's called bias.

And so I understand what the speakers are saying, but from my purview, in order to get the the f the fairness for the tenants that they're talking about, you don't want a commissioner, or I would think you wouldn't want a commissioner to already sit up there with a pre-judgment because they've walked into a person's house that we already know have violations.

That's why the inspectors are going.

When that happens, and the homeowner who is also present for this hearing and giving testimony about either why they're out of compliance or how they're going to come in compliance, raises the issue of due process, which the law allows and mandates for people, and they say, how can commissioner number so and so, number one, number two, number nine, sit and make an impartial decision?

When they've already walked through my house, they've already talked to the inspector about walking through my house.

Um functions.

So when that homeowner raises that to put those procedural safeguards in place, that commissioner has to recuse themselves.

Do you really want a commissioner that to have to recuse themselves that you want to sit and hold landlords accountable for tenants?

So there's nothing nefarious about removing these provisions from the ordinance.

It's so that the ordinance harmonizes with the law.

Now, if you're going to put those safe those safeguards in place, and if the if the inspectors are going in and a member of the commission wants to go in and they come back when that uh that hearing, if you will, is being had and recuse themselves, that's a different story.

But then if they recuse themselves, what was the point of going in there if they can't make a decision that might favor the tenant?

When we hold these landlords accountable, again, the commission can come back and and there's administrative remedies.

But even if a landlord does not comply with the administrative remedies, if they don't come into compliance, we can, yes, we can assess violations and fines.

If they don't come into compliance with paying the fines or removing the violations, council doesn't have the power to do anything.

It then goes to the courts and it has to be adjudicated in front of a judge.

And if you really want to control rents, then you need to go to Raleigh and have these same conversations with the General Assembly.

When you're talking, you need to go to the General Assembly.

If you're talking about holding landlords accountable for real, then you need to make sure that every commissioner that is appointed can sit, take evidence, hear testimony, decide without being already prejudged without any preconceived notions, without any bias, make a decision, hold the landlords accountable, and when they don't comply, take them in the court.

But if you don't have a fair process, which is what quasi-judicial also means, then the process does not equate to what we are actually here to do.

And it's really, that's really all it's about.

And I don't know how else to explain it.

I've written emails to folks that have written emails back to that have asked me, I've tried to give explanations, I've said it was nothing nefarious, I've said it went on the consent agenda, and my office, I take ownership, did not inform counsel as fully as maybe we should have, and that's why it was pulled.

But there's nothing nefarious about what we're trying to do.

An inspector going in and a commission member going in with them is not going to make that home more safe.

And do process mandates fairness and mandates unbiased, it mandates that you listen to evidence and listen to testimony, cite unseen, so that you can have a so that everybody in the proceeding can have fairness.

Um regarding going into somebody's um residence.

I I would imagine if I had an opportunity to go into somebody's residence and see the conditions that they're living under, that I would want to help them, that I would be biased to them.

If I did go through and I voted my conscience, I would assume that the landlord could claim that they are the aggrieved party because it was an ex parte discussion that we had, that they were not a party to it, and therefore it starts all over again.

Exactly.

If a commissioner is going to is going to sit up there and listen to evidence and uh testimony, there should not be any communication with that inspector that's also going to testify.

That is called ex parte, whether you're in a regular judicial or you're in a quasi-judicial, and a landlord can absolutely fight that and appeal the decision of the commission to hold them accountable simply because of that.

And it's it it I don't know if it sounds fair or not fair, but it's the law.

I um I asked staff yesterday how many commissioners had visit a property or how many commissioners had asked to visit a property, and the answer that I got was zero.

That is the information that I've got.

If you've got something to the opposite, I'd like to see it.

We're not gonna we're not gonna argue back and forth.

We're not gonna Mr.

Hawkins, please.

Madam Mayor, I've asked the same question, and I've gotten from members of staff that as far as we know, there's been no commissioner that's ever accompanied an inspector when they've went in.

Um when we talk about receivership, receivership is also a state law, it's not a municipal law, and that is chapter 38 of the North Carolina General Statute.

In order to have a receivership in a property with code violations, the property has to be vacant.

We've looked, we looked into that with the last property that I think it was was it cottage garden time?

Gardens.

And there's there is when when people say figure we we can figure out where to put people, I don't think you clearly understand the housing shortage that we have.

I don't I don't think there's a clear understanding, because I think that that property has like 177 units.

So you have 177 families, if that's the number that's going to be displaced.

And and finding a place for them is not as easy as standing up here for three minutes and talking.

It's it's not as easy as it looks.

Um, and so we did look into that in order to have a receiver go into a property, the property has to be vacant, and that is state law, and you have to find places to put not one person but whole families.

Madam Mayor Um, and then Mrs.

Hoffman, then two.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Um as I listened to all the comments, and thank you, Madam City Attorney, for the legal analysis.

Um, there are really three things on the on the docket tonight.

You know, two of them are the things that are actually a part of what we're talking about.

One are the rental rates.

Um you're correct.

We we don't control what rental rates are, and we're not talking about about rent controls, just the study of the rental rates themselves.

And as it, you know, as a carryover from our our work session, I do believe there's value in getting the information on on rental rates.

You know, we had Patrick Bowen uh come to our community several times talking about housing crisis and salaries and things of those nature.

I think that the rental rates are another part of that equation, not the whole equation, just another data point that we can use as we're looking at.

I think it was Lewis Pitts that said uh talking about economics, what the economics of our community.

Uh I've said before that that the City of Greensboro, we're really a customer service organization, and that our residents are our customers, and if they're telling us that that they're looking for more information, then uh it doesn't hurt us to get that information.

It doesn't mean that we have to act on it, doesn't mean that um there's an ordinance or something that comes out of it, but it may play into something else that we do when it comes to the economics when it comes to the affordability of our community, and what is it that council can do as the as a cheerleaders for the city to encourage better rates or better salaries or better home prices or better development or more density?

So I see the benefit of the rental rates.

And Madam Mr.

Council uh man, I don't disagree with you.

The part that I would question is is there anyone, any expert that sits on the commission that could do this rental rate study?

Should I I don't disagree with with the study being done, but where does the expertise and if this is to go to court, let's just say it goes to court because landlord doesn't comply in order to now not set in the judge's seat for 10 years, in order for someone to get a rental rate study into evidence, you're going to have to qualify them as an expert witness.

If they don't have the credentials to back them, or they don't have the years of rental rate study to back them, even if they don't have the education, they will never qualify as an expert witness.

So I don't disagree that rental rate studies are good.

Do we have anyone on the commission that would serve as an expert to do that?

And I wouldn't necessarily look for someone on the on the commission.

We have other partners in our community who could assist us with that.

We have the university assistant.

Yes.

You have UNCG, we have ANT, we have other other third party partners in our community.

And we're not disagreeing with each other.

I think it's just a matter of fleshing through.

So I think there is a benefit, and uh I'd like to see the rental rates, see the minimum housing in addition to housing neighborhood development.

Uh someone be able to provide us with information.

Right.

That's the first part.

Right.

Second part is I agree with you on the quasi-judicial and the ex parte.

Um I I do not having served on the board of adjustment, I do not want to have the jurors going to go into the scene, so to speak, and bring that information back.

So on that part, I do agree with you.

But I think that third thing that I mentioned that is really overarching this conversation is that a lot of times when we express our concern about a topic, there's really an overarching topic.

And that overarching topic is that the housing conditions for from some of our property owners and landlords is just deplorable.

Now 99.5% of them are doing a great job.

It's the ones that we know of, and we said them tonight.

We talked about cottage gardens.

I've been through there.

I think you've been through there.

You've seen what's in Cottage Gardens or what was there, the trying to improve it.

New garden apartments, village walk.

Uh those are those are complexes where we have people who are hurting, hurting badly.

If we're talking about rodents and lots of rodents and and uh at the housing coalition, I I have the the um perspective of seeing that on a first hand basis, and that that third arching issue is that we need to get tougher with minimum housing.

I think that if we were tougher with minimum housing, if if if we could could turn them loose when it comes to making sure that our residents have good, safe, healthy housing, that these other issues probably wouldn't be as big.

This rental rate study wouldn't be as big, but it's the overarching issue that if we're not paying attention to the little things, then the concern is that we're not paying attention to the big things.

And if I can, um councilman um Holston, I believe it was some years back prior to me coming on that the violations for landlords was uh costly, and I believe that uh city council voted to reduce the cost.

Um, and so we have we have also my office has also talked about that.

And so in going back to the rental rate studies, taking the words that the commission can perform rental rate studies is what we talked about in the work session, taking that out and adding in that they can be submitted with rental rate studies that that is performed by the experts.

Um, and so that's an option that we talked about.

And we've also inquired and talked about from my office going back and increasing those violations.

Um we talked about that with this cottage gardens thing too, and it's just a matter of getting that before counsel after you all have an opportunity to talk about it and making that amendment.

So we do have we we do have options in play.

And so I think you're right, we're not seeing anything different, it's about semantics.

So the commission performing rental rate studies, it's probably a no, maybe, but being submitted with rental rate studies, absolutely.

And so in in that regard, you know, the overarching issue is one that we'll have to keep working on as it refers to to this ordinance and this amendment, because the two are are combined, you know, talked about the quasi-judicial, which I agree with you, but the rental rates I don't, that I'll be a no on this ordinance.

Yes, sir.

Um Mrs.

Hoffman, followed by Mrs.

Sturm, followed by Ms.

Pinder and Goldie.

Thanks.

I have just a couple of uh um things, Mayor.

Uh first I'd like to ask our city attorney, we I believe one of our speakers said that uh this policy had been shaped uh by TreeBick.

Uh can you clarify that, please?

I don't think that's the case, but I'd like for you to indicate that.

I have not talked to anyone in Tree Vick, no one.

That is very true.

I have not talked to anyone in TreeBick.

If I don't know what anyone's talking about, but yes, I'm sure my name was on a list somewhere to attend a TreeBeak event, I was not present, did not go, did not did not talk to anyone, have not talked to no member of Tree, and certainly not about this ordinance.

When I first came to the city attorney's office, one of my duties was to look through ordinances and contracts and see about updating them for the new council.

As we all are aware, sitting in this room, the city attorney's office had a shakeup around about June, July, and now we're just getting back on track.

So this ordinance coming up had nothing to do with whatever happened in a in a commission meeting or something a commission said, this was let's put our foot on a gas and try to get ordinances updated for the new council so that they can operate with updated municipal laws.

That is that is again as simple as that.

Thank you very much.

I think that that accusation certainly needed to be able to do that.

Yeah, no, that's not true to be answered.

So yeah, I have served this city for nearly 20 years on city council and one of our boards and commissions prior to that.

We have had problem rental properties in the city ever, yeah, certainly for the 20 years that I've had some intimate involvement.

So that's probably never going to go away.

But what I will say is that none of the issues with these problem uh communities and facilities will be solved by either of the uh of the items being addressed in this ordinance change.

They're not going to be solved by anybody doing a rental study, and they're not going to be solved because a member of a commission uh accompanies a an inspector into someone's home or apartment.

Um so yeah, I there we have very valid reasons for cleaning up these ordinances that are out of date, and I will support this uh change tonight.

Mr.

Sir Thank you, um, and thank you for going through that speech that helped everybody understand.

Um I do have a question though.

If we were to add to the charge of minimum housing commission an education piece for the public in terms of how to file a complaint, how to record make a recording of a complaint, etc.

about their housing conditions.

Could we charge this group with that work and going out in the public to educate tenants, especially those tenants that are in properties, would that then disqualify them from sitting on a quasi-judicial process later on if a complaint were filed?

I don't think it would because as you said, it would just be an education piece, and I think that's what we're missing here tonight, is just the education of knowing how this process works and what can and can that happen at what level.

I I think I I agree, and and as I listen to people talk, because one of the things, and one of the reasons I made the comment about I wasn't aware about the speaker's challenges and hadn't received any communication on that, is because as you know, I recently was just with another group that was having problems at another development.

Um, and I take these things really seriously, and the education piece, even if I can't do something about it, the education of how to help them proceed, I think is critical, and I think that's a step that we are missing as a city in helping people understand what are your rights and how do you go through the process.

Um, and I think that's something, Mr.

City Manager, that I would like to recommend and uh Ms.

Covid to add to this ordinance that there is an obligation of minimum housing to help facilitate education to the public.

Um, some of these things, if an if a case never gets to an inspector, or it doesn't come in mass for a development, it's very difficult to take it and move it forward.

I think that the piece that we're missing is if somebody's being attacked by rats, if somebody's got mold pouring out of their AC unit or heating unit, or doesn't have running water or whatever.

I know that every time I've dealt with that as a as a council person with inspections, especially if there's no running water.

Inspection gets gets out there that day, we have people on site, we figure it out, and we get the issues addressed.

The challenge is people don't know how to go about getting that help.

And I think that is a huge missing piece, and something that absolutely minimum housing could and should be doing.

As it appears that many of them are active in the community, that they are talking to folks, certainly the keep city house folks that are also on the commission.

We could work with them and partner with them because I think that is the critical piece that's missing.

If we look at the rent study, when I met with the minimum housing commission a month or so ago, um my whole point in that is I don't debate, I don't doubt that a rent study would be beneficial to all of us, but I don't think the way that it's worded in the ordinance right now is that the commission can do that study or should do that study or has the right to do that study.

I think that's wrong.

I think it's worded poorly.

I think it needs to be stricken because yes, they need the they might need the information, we might need we need the information, but that's not handled correctly in the ordinance, in my opinion, at this point in time.

There's been a lot of talk about is this retaliation, and you know, we all know that there were the old city attorney's office has changed.

There were issues that's gone away.

We are starting fresh.

Um, you know, if quite frankly, if council wanted to retaliate against a commissioner, we just pull them.

We have the right to do that.

I know some have said that's been done in the past.

I don't know about that.

It certainly hasn't been done under my watch or with any of my folks.

Um, but I don't think that there's any retaliation involved in this.

Um the law is the law.

I don't see that anything's going to change in your recommendation to us three weeks from now than the recommendation now.

And regardless of who's sitting on counsel, the fact is we have to follow the law.

Um I don't see a value in postponing this for three two or three weeks.

We're gonna come to the same conclusion that the law still says the same thing.

Um, I think there are certainly things we can do better and things we need to do better, but most importantly, I think the role of the minimum housing commission to help educate the public, especially in these problem neighborhoods that we know are problem neighborhoods, can take us much further along than a random commissioner going into somebody's house.

Thank you.

Um Ms.

Pinder Well, I have a question.

If you can explain to me the process about enforcement, um, because I heard we have certain policies or ordinances in place now, but what is that enforcement?

So after someone goes in and does the inspection, what is the process that we go through and because I heard you say the courts it would have to go to the judge in order to enforce it.

So can you walk me through that process again?

Um, Madam Um Councilwoman, if you if it's okay with you, I'm gonna turn it over to Brent attorney Brent Ducharm, who um services the minimum standards housing commission board um and allow him to take you through that process.

Okay, thank you.

There, I actually would would look to turn to him so we can speak to a staff's process a little bit, and I'll be glad to add on.

Hey, how are y'all?

I'm chief of compliance with co-compliance to address your question when the complaint first comes in.

We send an inspector out and we do find violations.

Can you speak up a little bit?

I apologize.

Am I close enough here?

Okay, good.

So once we go to the property and we find the violations, we then issue uh a notice of violation, which is a hearing notice.

You're then granted 30 days to respond or coming in or come into compliance.

And if you're if you haven't met the compliance at that date and time, a hearing will be held if we deem that we need to move forward, a repair or demolish order or repair order, excuse me, will be issued.

That's grants another 30 days, and at the end of that 30 days, another inspection will take place.

And if again violations have not been met, we will then move to an additional 30 days, making a total of 90, which will go before the housing commission.

And then once it goes before the commission, it's up to them to vote to either demo, grant more time, or send a receivership.

So is there anything?

So I understand that whole process, so it looks like it's pretty much a four or five month process from the initial um complaint going through the cycle that then gets back to minimum housing, correct?

It typically would if everything goes perfect as far as mailing and getting everybody served, then it takes about three months.

Now back to the enforcement, because I heard a little bit earlier um when you talked about the fines and how there were changes in the fines for holding landlords accountable.

Can you talk a little bit about that for me?

And um landlords were uh cited and they did not come into compliance after a certain amount of uh uh time period, and I don't think there was a prescribed time period, but at a certain point, landlords are fined a certain amount of money per day.

That fine, if I'm correct, was a hundred dollars.

We have that listed at uh 200 now uh with a ten dollar uh daily uh fine thereafter.

I'm saying right so it's 200, but it was it was it was how much a day?

I believe a hundred previously, but I kind of checked the old so previously if the landlord didn't come into compliance, it was a hundred dollars a day every day that they were in compliance, and because I'm new, I can't be sure if it was this council or a prior council that voted to take that violation amount down to ten dollars a day, and so that was something that was one of the first things that my office explored when we when we were trying to harmonize the statute with the law is one of the ways we could because if I want to say this uh this landlord of of uh cottage village is out of California or something, and so it was what's going to make this person, this owner want to come into compliance.

Well, hit them where it hurts, which is normally the pocket, right?

Um, and then when I looked into it, it was only ten dollars a day, and so that's part of what we were exploring too, as you know, to try to change.

So that is something you all are doing currently in your department, is looking at ways and how we can revisit the current policy and hold those landlords accountable to that rate.

Yes, um, madam councilwoman, and we started this prior to July, and then the bottom just fell out.

Okay, thank you.

Um, so I would go back more comments.

So I would go back and probably reiterate what council person um councilwoman Thurm said, it goes back to the education and the information.

Um, I probably agree with moving forward where we are with this, yes.

Um, in terms of the rental rates, as council member um Holston stated, it's not a fact that you can't do the rental rate study, that's fine because the rental rate study, again, making sure we're in compliance with the law, is to help inform us in terms of where do we need to adjust.

So if we need more affordable housing over here, or if we need affordable housing here, what are things that we can do?

So that's the purpose of a rental study that can help us.

And as he um stated, that truly can come from the planning department as well.

So in cooperation or within partnership with the minimum housing standards, I think that's an opportunity where it's how do we involve and keep these lines of communication open.

But who really commissions that where that really needs to lie truly is through like your North Carolina Housing Agency that works at rental rates for the state, looking at it from our nonprofit organizations, as we say, North Carolina Housing Coalition, um, Greensboro Housing Coalition that happens to do the advocacy component.

Also looking at UNCGs, um, neighborhood and housing where they do those types of studies, but it's one thing to get a study, and it's another thing to be able to act on now.

You have this information, what do you need to do with this information?

So again, it takes a collective approach to be able to look at how you truly are um addressing it.

So from the rentals, it's important for it to help inform where we need to go, which again probably helped informed us when we got to the road of 10,000.

Again, where do we need to be?

How do we need to show up and how do we do that?

Now I thank everyone that has come out to advocate for the residents because again, I too have walked these streets, I too have gone into these homes.

I too look at ways to be able to advocate and see how can what can we do that's within the law, but making sure that we hold the dignity of those who are serving.

Um what other commissions do we have that's within what other commissions do we have that are um quasi-judicial council?

Uh, most of them we have Board of Adjustments.

Um I would have to I'm actually getting all that ready for the new council, so I could give you that tomorrow, but to just think of that right off the top of my head.

I think board board of adjustments, we have board of adjustments.

Um, you know, years ago, planning and zoning was quasi-judicial if it was a conditional use rezoning, right?

And um, I went off council for a couple years voluntarily, um, came back on, and the it was no longer quasi-judicial, but when planning and zoning cases were it made them very cumbersome, and then I believe the state overturned that and they are no longer quasi-judicial.

And I have that list going into the new council like handbook, legal handbook.

I could get you that tomorrow.

And I have beside each board and commission, whether it's a legislative advisory or quasi-judicial.

Okay, thank you.

But I just wanted to really reiterate the part of its education, informing ones that we are aware of it.

How are we using that information to then educate and then what role that the minimum housing can do to be able to help be a part of making sure we're informing, but then also, like you said, you are actively looking at ways to be able to um adhere to some of the looking at different ways in how we can hold those landlords accountable for the fines.

So thank you.

Um Goldie, I excuse me.

I wanted to thank the city attorney for giving such a excellent explanation of how the law fits in and what we can do and what we can't do.

My thing is people hear what they want to hear.

I have met with you many times, and I've told you we cannot do anything about rent.

We can't do anything about rent, and this really will not solve that problem, but you hear what you want to hear, and then and then these attacks on council members that we don't hear the constituents, every one of us up here is concerned about our constituents.

We hear it over and over.

People call you and tell me I don't have any heat.

I've even been out and bought stone for somebody.

They call and say they don't have rent, they don't have the rent money.

We try to find rent money for them.

They say that they don't have enough money to um look the conditions are bad.

So, what do we do?

We try to talk to landlords, but we cannot make them bring that rent down.

We've done everything we could now switch councils, you can hold it off, you could do whatever you want to.

The next council is not going to be able to change what Raleigh has said to us, and I think that there's a misnomer.

You think that because we sit here, we can do a lot of things that we cannot do.

And that's why I'm so glad that the attorney explained that there are things that we cannot do.

The law still has to be abided by.

We are concerned about our constituents.

And you know I've told you over and over this.

So now I hope you hear it this time and hear it right.

It's like that game we played in school, you know, you start off putting something in somebody's ear, and by the time it gets to the other side of the room, it's another story.

So I hope you get the first story.

We've done what we could do about this, about that rent.

Um after Gold, uh Mrs.

Heithower.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Um I think a lot of things have already been said about it.

Um the first unfair thing is to say that we don't care about our constituents.

That's a total misnomer.

If it was, I wouldn't have moved 400 families out of heritage house that was in squalor and move them into safe spaces.

We wouldn't have moved people who, when Hurricane Michael came and those Pinecroft apartments flooded, that we went and got them out at two o'clock in the morning and move them to safe spaces.

I've been to cottage gardens as well.

I know what it looks like.

I've sat down and talked to the immigrants.

I know what it looks like, but we cannot violate law.

I know that doesn't make you feel good, but we can't, because then we wind up in a worse situation than we started out with because the state still rules over us and still has rights to correct us when we step out of line.

State took away that so that we could even inspect these apartments before people moved in.

They had to have a certificate of occupancy so people could move in safely, and this is what has happened since RUCO.

I've had landlords, I've seen landlords that have rented apartments that were under code, and they've done it.

But we have to have a stricter enforcement with our code.

There has to be teeth in our code.

Okay.

But I've seen our code inspectors who inspected cottage gardens and went from 36 violation cases down to six.

Was it six, madam?

City attorney.

And so there were several, and but he continued to work with them.

And even they got a new property management.

So I think the due diligence of following through and ensuring that these code violations are addressed, and that people understand they can't continue to put people into these types of apartments and allow them to live there and simply collect rent.

Cottage Gardens started out being sold to one person who promised the moon and she didn't deliver.

And then she sold them to somebody out of state.

The guy never saw the apartments.

She just sold them.

And then they bought them, and then they realized oh, this place is kind of in bad shape.

So it's a pattern of behavior.

We tried a few years ago, uh, Madam Mayor, we put on our legislative agenda to even get another uh RUCO in place, but only for those landlords that were offenders that have been um doing the same thing over and over and over.

The state just didn't hear it, they didn't consider it.

So I hope that we will understand why this is being stricken from the record.

It doesn't mean we're taking away tenant rights.

We have a human rights department, and I think we need to be working closely with them because they have tenant landlord, and that's where your education piece can come in.

They can go out into the community and teach this and work with you all.

That's where we all have to collaborate and work together.

It's easy to throw stones and it's easy to point fingers.

But let's come together and find solutions for the greater good of what needs to occur in this community.

I see it every day.

I get phone calls every single day practically that somebody has some code issue, and I send codings.

Um I used to be called the queen of code because I call them all the time.

But that's our remedy right now, currently, beyond anything that we can do stronger.

And the reason that the fees were reduced, uh, Madam City Attorney a few years ago and went down that low is because we found that you got compliance when they didn't have to spend all their money in the fees and fines, but they could fix that home and get it back up to be a safe living space.

Now I think we do need to increase our fines uh on some things now because I think people don't get it.

There are certain landlords, they're great landlords.

I would ask the great landlords to say to the to the not so great landlords, they have a responsibility to the citizens uh in our community to ensure that everybody lives safe.

Um but for you to remove that, I think is what we have to follow.

Um doesn't mean we don't care about people.

Um but it also says that we have a responsibility as people who took an oath to uphold the laws of the state of North Carolina and the city of Greensboro.

So I just want people to truly understand that.

So this wasn't anything nefarious, underhanded, sneaky, it was not is to get things cleaned up so you can be doing some good work and helping the citizens of Greensboro.

So and I'll just add, madam councilwoman, that removing that the commission itself studies rental rates does not prevent the commission from making the recommendation to council that they want a rental rate study to be done by an expert because that's part of their function is to make recommendations to city council.

So if they make that recommendation to city council and city council votes to get an expert rental rate study, then it gets done.

It just gets done by the appropriate people, correct?

Right.

And I'm sure there are um the appropriate uh entities that can provide that information.

Um, you know, and so it's probably it's probably a great idea to do that.

Um rents are climate, but some of it's the market.

What we also have to make sure that we ensure that our citizens get some of these great jobs that have come to this city.

So they're making living wages, not so they just can pay high rents, but so they don't find themselves subject to some landlords who are not so great.

I'll just leave it at that, um, as well.

And so I think collectively we have to be working toward that solution.

Um, so our community um continues to grow.

Because tonight you're right, Madam Mayor, we increased some development in District One, and there's more coming, more apartments coming, um, that are market rate, townhomes, houses, single family, all that is coming.

Um, yeah, seniors need somewhere to go, veterans need somewhere to go, and they should be living safe as well.

So um I I do appreciate the passion I heard in here tonight.

Keep it up, hold people accountable.

I haven't spoken to you, you know, but just know that this is something we have to do legally.

So I hope you will take into consideration a human rights department needs to be working collectively together to identify these issues.

Um Tammy has a quick question, then um, then Mayor Pro Tem or Mayor Elect.

Madam City Attorney, I just uh can you reach out to the landlords association that is here in Greensboro and ask them within the landlord's association, is there any mechanism for them policing their own and for them policing their own, like because the land the landlords that are good responsible landlords absolutely hate this in terms of they they can't they can't stand the the landlords that aren't doing their job and I just wonder if regionally nationally whatever if they have some mechanism for policing their own.

Thank you.

So uh a lot of things have been said this evening, and and I agree basically with all of them.

I do want us to consider, and I think Ms.

Pender kind of touched on it.

Um we always talk about using our colleges and universities.

The uh UNCG Center for Housing and Community Studies can do rental rate studies, something like that.

This way that you know that can be done.

They do uh in the context of local hoarding housing affordability, eviction rates, and community needs, and they go deep on this research.

I attended some of their workshops, and they really dive down into the what needs to be done.

So I would suggest we do something like that because I'm like several have mentioned, I want to follow the law, and if we don't follow the law, we're gonna have more taken away from us, and it's as simple as that.

Um I also want to mention, you know, about the um uh when there's co-compliance issues, um, I understand that is if there's a life safety issue that is taken care of pretty much immediately.

Is that correct?

Yes, Mr.

Roberts is shaking his head, yes.

So that that is correct.

So if there's a life safety issue, that is immediate.

And I I want to acknowledge I see Beth McGee Hug in the building.

We used to have the rental unit certificate of occupancy, so it was actually a very successful program and was doing very, very well, and the state took it away.

Uh they had to as Mrs.

Hightower said, they they had to be inspected before.

But what was also done, and I assume through the housing coalition, and perhaps Mr.

Holston can uh start something like this, but there were tenant workshops and landlord workshops, and all of these things brought together in order that people could understand, so you didn't have them all in one room, no, but they were you know separate workshops where tenants learned their rights because a lot of tenants don't realize they need to put it in writing, they absolutely need to put it in writing.

Uh, and a lot of tenants need that education, and I would like to see some more of the education pieces out there.

I'm not sure who would like to take that on, but that's the way it was done then.

And there were little sheets that the the tenants took, you know, when they first uh um you know signed the lease on their apartments.

These are your responsibilities, and this is how you take care of things if there's an issue.

So all of those things, there's there's so many ways that this can be worked without the controversial back and forth that is getting everything nowhere because the state could take it away again.

They could take away even further uh what we are doing now and what is being doing now with evictions.

They could.

So I'm just saying that we need to get the things that we cannot do in the law out of these ordinances, and those are two, and then we need to continue and try to advocate for those who are in uh those situations and see what we can do to make the co-compliance ordinances uh stricter, heavier fines, whatever it takes.

And I think uh madam city attorney that you certainly have heard that this evening.

So thank you.

Do we have a motion?

Um I heard moved by Dr.

Wells.

Is there a second?

Second seconded by Mayor Elect Council.

Please vote.

It didn't come up on me.

That passes eight to one.

Um council, we would normally take a break, but you want to power through?

Yes.

If you need to take a comfort vote, you can discreetly vote.

Comfort move you can move the rest of the agenda.

No, no, no, no.

Um, I think that was a very healthy discussion.

People may people may not agree with the decision, but they heard the reasons for it.

Oh, yeah, all right.

I'm gonna read the next two items together.

Item I2 is a resolution to approve two million dollars to the housing authority.

I'm gonna go ahead and pull yours over.

Just gonna let them leave.

Move the item.

I assume you'll be yes.

The housing authority.

Okay.

Just give me a minute.

Which item did you move?

All right.

If you could leave quietly so we can continue.

Item I two.

Which one is it resolution to approve two million dollars to the housing authority of the city of Greensboro for the Arbors of South Crossing Infrastructure and item I three, which is resolution approving GHA issuance bonds for arbors at South Crossing to Greensboro.

Move the item.

And I see that Mr.

Cox is here for questions.

We do have a motion only started because it's been out there for a minute.

So it was moved by Mrs.

Hightower, seconded by who?

Dr.

Wells.

Um council, please vote.

Are we on are we going to I two first?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I too.

That's I too.

It was moved by Mrs.

Hightower, seconded by Dr.

Wells.

Well, here's a presentation.

Do you want to see it, Madame Mayor?

Mr.

Cox, I think her question was when can we start seeing it?

Come here, because I'm tired of being accused of selling Smith home for a dollar.

Yeah.

And you or UNCG buying for a dollar.

So I mean, please tell this the the TV world, the whole world that Smith Homes is still owned by Green Borough Housing Authority, and that you are getting ready to move forward with these.

And it's gonna be nice, but please, because this is and I'm excited about seeing it, because I know the other side, you ready to move on that?

Yes.

And uh everything, and I'm glad we could help with the infrastructure.

So good evening, Council.

Um good to see everyone.

Um yes, the Greensboro Housing Authority does still own uh Smith Homes now branded as the Arbors at South Crossing.

Um yes, infrastructure has started.

Um and we're moving forward with the infrastructure on the north side of the site.

And if you can just um bear with me just to the north of Florida Street, which we consider the north side, and we're here today both for um funding for to support the infrastructure on the north side as well as the next item um for um bond issuance, which house thought will issue the bonds and it's um administrative action for council to move forward.

Um full presentation, you want to get an update, but we are excited to to partner.

I mean, it's been a long time, a lot of discussions have happened over the last you know, 10 years and um and partner with the city.

So we look forward to moving forward and getting the uh proper resources, not just for infrastructure, but as well for the first um 42 units which we dedicate to seniors.

So that'll be our first um portion I'll get to show us that's yeah, so um we'll get right to this phase right here.

So those are the 42 units, approximately four acres.

Uh it'll be just to the east portion of the site, which will include um pretty much single family story, um bungalows, um single story units, as you can see there.

Um pretty much um villa style craftsman style um architecture.

Uh we'll have its own separate community space community um building.

Uh it would be funded with um four percent tax credits, and we are currently working through the finances for it uh to move forward.

Yeah, and so we just considered um you know adding to the 10,000 plus um units we're looking forward to, you know, developing out um this well needed should be in the rounds of uh close to f 150 million dollar worth of value long term both when both sides are completed.

We're looking forward to you know developing out this well needed should be in the rounds of close to 150 million dollar worth of value long term when both sides are completed.

And I must say that new construction in that particular census track.

Actually, 20 years.

Longer than that, 2025 years, I do believe.

And uh since it's about 2000, a little 2300 units in that whole census track.

I think we only produced about 150 units since 2000.

And that's been the multifamily unit for both, um, just north of Hampton homes as well as the student housing.

So it's in dire need.

Young people have never seen a bulldozer dump truck or anything in that area to aspire to see construction activities.

So we're excited about that side about partnering to continue with the city uh to move this project forward to provide the housing that's um desperately needed for uh reticence here at Greensboro.

Any other questions?

Now if somebody offer a hundred million dollars for um the site, then it might be a different story.

Um who are you waiting to vote?

Um tower uh oh I'm sorry, I almost love high tower.

I was looking at the presentation.

Okay.

Sorry.

Yeah, I was in the presentation.

Okay.

So when will you start construction?

We have to close.

Yeah, we're looking to close next next next year.

Oh, 2026.

Yeah, so part of the bond resolution is to us moving forward.

We won't be able to close.

Um we got delayed this year, government shut down, some of the financing got held up, so we're not able to move forward.

So we're repositioning uh and pivoting a little bit because we're still uh you know, working towards uh the gap.

Construction cost has increased, so we're trying to work through and negotiate that gap.

So we'll continue to work with the city and other partners, see how we can close that gap even on the senior deal.

So look forward to being back again.

So I two passes nine to zero.

Now we need a motion for I three.

So moved.

Moved by Mr.

Holston's.

I'm sorry, no, no, I'll take it back.

Did you want it?

Did you want to motion?

Move by Dr.

Wells, seconded by Mr.

Holston.

Council, please vote.

Not in the West, but I got in the second third one.

Was that just in the question?

No, okay.

No, we're good.

Thanks very much.

Thank you.

You know, I I will say that there sometimes is some confusion on what the Greensboro Housing Authority is.

Yes.

A lot of people assume it is a department of the city of Greensboro, and it is not.

It is completely a separate entity.

Just because Greensboro is in the name, doesn't mean it's a department.

Like through plumbing is not part of Green Program.

Yes.

So the Greensboro Housing Authority is a standalone organization, and we appreciate the opportunity to work together.

Yes.

And that passes 920.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you all.

Thank you.

Item I 4 is a resolution to approve design build contract in the amount of 627,699 with deadmans harvest store inc for leech eight system repairs at the White Street Landfill.

Move the uh Goldie wants to move it.

Moved by Dr.

Wells, second by Mayor Elect.

That passes 9 to 0.

Item I point five, or ordinance to amend water resources capital project revenue bond fund budget to fund Southeast feeder main in the amount of $13,775,366.

Moved by Mrs.

Hoffman, seconded by Mrs.

Thurm.

Council, please vote.

And that passes 9 to 0.

I point six is a resolution approving bid in the amount of $14,968,949 and authorizing execution of contract 2021-045C with mainlining America LLC for the Southeast feeder main improvements contract three project.

Move the item.

Moved by Mayor Elect, seconded by Ms.

Pinder.

Council, please vote.

That passes 9 to 0.

I point 7 is a resolution of city council support for PTRWA's master planning study and prioritization of recommended regional capacity development alternatives.

Moved by Mrs.

Thurms, seconded by Mayor Elect.

This is a resolution that I had requested that we bring forward.

We talk a lot about regionalism and we need regionalism.

And this is really us stepping up saying that we want to be a part of this regional solution.

And I appreciate Mr.

Borcher's helping get this through.

Thank you.

Mayor Mayor, since you bring it up on regionalism, where we're going to be a pleasant garden and be part of our regionalism.

So will this help push this along for that?

Yep.

Okay.

Great.

Thank you.

Councilmember Holston.

So you can't think of that.

That passes 9 to 0.

Item I point eight.

We did have two speakers signed up.

Philip Marsh and Jason Hicks, if they're still here.

I point eight is a resolution approving bid in the amount of $789,500 and authorizing execution of contract 2025-0340 with Central Builders Inc.

for the Tanger Center Founders Room Interior Renovations Project.

Moved by Mr.

Holston, seconded by Mr.

Metheny.

I know that Scott Johnson is here for any questions that we have, but I want to state that there is some inaccuracies that are out there.

This is money that is from the funding from money that Tanger has made.

Tanger has been in business for a few years now.

They have a fund balance of six million dollars that is after all of their expenses, including paying back the bonds.

So this is not taxpayer money.

This is permission for Tanger to spend money that they've made.

Hopefully, somebody is listening to it and will correct the stories that are out there.

Yes.

Oh well.

I see they didn't stick around.

Councilwoman Hottour.

Oh, I'm sorry.

And that passes 9 to 0.

Item I point 9 is a resolution to approve a contract in the amount of $302,723 and 96 cents with KNC Tech for cabling and fiber at Coliseum Tanger Center.

Moved by Mr.

Holston, seconded by Mr.

Matheny.

Council, please vote.

That passes 9 to 0.

Item I point 10 is an ordinance to amend Coliseum Limited Obligation Bond Fund 525 in the amount of 294,855 for cable and fiber updates.

That is moved by Mr.

Holston, seconded by Mr.

Matheny.

Are we waiting on someone?

Oh me, I'm sorry.

And that passes 9 to 0.

And I want to say hello to Mike Perdue.

I'm sure he is watching.

He's probably on the edge of his seat.

This will be a good way to move forward.

Thank you.

Where's my he had a heart attack?

He's okay.

He's okay.

Yeah, he's great.

He's great.

I don't know.

But I'm I'm sure that Dina probably had to tie him down so he wouldn't come here tonight.

But he's he's doing very well.

I hope I didn't um say anything HIPAA violation.

He's a friend, so I hope not.

Oh my goodness.

I mean that's right, he did.

He put I'm good.

Um I 11 is a resolution approving contract 2024-0340 and the amount of one million six hundred and eighty-one thousand six hundred dollars with Lomax Construction Inc.

for the Bog Garden Boardwalk replacement.

Move the item.

I think we all um moved by Mayor Elect, seconded by Dr.

Wells.

Council, please vote.

And that passes nine to zero.

Um I point twelve, a resolution approving the recommended salary for the City of Greensboro ABC Board General Manager.

Moved by Mrs.

Hoffman, seconded by Mayor Elect.

Council, please vote.

Who are we waiting on?

Councilman Wells and Councilman Pender.

Wells and who?

You got nine to zero.

Um resolution approving the Greensboro ABC board to exceed the maximum working capital limit.

Moved by Mrs.

Hoffman, seconded by Mr.

Metheny.

Council, please vote.

Wells and pender.

Who?

Okay.

That passes nine to zero.

I want to thank Mike Fox for hanging around in case we had any questions.

And I would like to recognize Mrs.

Hoffman for her work on the ABC board all these years.

I think we're in a better place.

Thank you.

And finally, I point 14 is a resolution approving bid in the amount of 11,464,153.

And authorizing execution of contract 2025-0010 with Blythe Construction Inc.

for the resurfacing of streets 2025 project.

I have a question.

Dr.

Wells seconded by Mr.

Holston.

I have a I have a question.

You have a question?

Yeah, I just did not see the streets that they're going to be resurfacing.

Is there a list already somewhere that I can see?

Because they're not on the agenda item.

Yeah, I don't, yeah, yeah, it's not here.

Yes, there is a list.

Where's the yeah?

It's not attached.

I'll just send it to the case.

We yes, we will send it tomorrow.

Yeah, I'd like to know because I'd like to make sure that some streets have been included that have been long overdue.

Um and then I guess my second piece is that I see that umwb two of them got a million dollars each, so um that should be a good outcome.

Um and the other question would be, Mr.

City Attorney, when you and it's part two of part one, part three and half.

When do you age out?

Uh when do you not age out?

Sorry.

Not age out.

When do you make enough money to age out?

Because I I know for a fact that one of them at on this agenda on this OBO has been making um Atlantic co contracting.

So when are they a when are they?

I still want to say age, but anyway, when do they make enough money to get out of the program?

Come on, when do they meet the threshold?

Right.

I'll get the exact for you.

Because both of them made over a million dollars, and that's great as part of the contract.

But um there is a threshold.

I'll get the exact for you.

Um you help me keep track of that question.

We'll get the exact for you.

All right, thank you.

Yes, ma'am.

All right, who are we waiting on?

All right, it passes nine to zero.

That is the end of our printed agenda.

Does anybody feel so moved to do a border commission appointment?

Yes, I know, no, nope, nope, nope, nope.

Not quite.

I need to reappoint Eric Arlen to the community sustainability council.

I will second that.

He's good, he's good on there.

He's good and he's been serving he wants to continue.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed that passes nine to zero.

Any other boards and commissions?

Um from minimum housing standards.

Um, Greg Drumwright.

And if you know who he's replacing, yes, what's Chris uh Christina Singleton?

I'm sorry, who Christina?

Okay.

Um, that's been moved and seconded.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed, that passes nine to zero.

Any other boards and commissions?

Okay.

Just a reminder.

Um we're going to have a meeting on December 1st, and that will be for those of us who will be cycling off.

December 2nd.

At least five of us will come back and open the meeting.

And uh the swearing in of the new council will be on December 2nd.

So we have two meetings, December 1st, December 2nd.

Um, Mr.

Holston, fast.

Just very briefly.

Um, today, well, in the previous council meeting, I mentioned that uh asked for prayers for Sister Amitula Yamini for the WD Muhammad Islamic Center.

I learned today that that she passed.

Oh, and that her services are tomorrow.

So sending prayers of comfort to the family and to the to the Islamic Center there on Bessemer.

We're going to miss Sister Amitullah.

Mayor Elect Best.

Yes, I will be fast.

Yes, I just want to thank you.

Thank everyone.

Um, many of you, this is your last full business meeting, and I just want to say that we've been a great team, and I appreciate each and every person who's been up here.

And for the ones that are leaving, we're going to miss you because um we have gotten a lot done on this council, and I appreciate it.

Before I leave this council, I want to say that the Demory apartments are being demolished.

Yes, I've been working on that for years, and thanks to those uh staff that made sure that that happened.

Yes.

And I've got one two quick, very quick comments.

Um, just to clarify, we talked earlier about things that were on social media that were not true.

I just want to clarify.

Number one, Greensboro libraries have not pulled any books off the shelves, even though that's on social media.

We have not pulled any books off that were um offensive to some people.

Offensive to some people.

Thank you for the help with that wording.

And the other thing that I wanted to clarify is Greensboro is not the one that decides where the voting sites are for early voting.

There's also something on set on social media tonight about us or this afternoon about us pulling voting sites.

That's the Board of Elections, not Greensboro City Council.

So just wanted to get those two things, the truth out there on those two items.

If I had to sit up here and correct all the bad stuff on social media, we'd need an extra meeting.

Oh, before before we leave, Mr.

City Manager, would you please introduce our new assistant city manager?

Thank you.

Um thank you, Mayor.

And I want to welcome Tiffany Oliva, our new assistant city manager, and thank you so much.

That's it.

Yes, welcome.

We're happy to have you.

Um city attorney, nothing.

Um Zach, you want to make a motion?

All right, last one.

Second, all in favor, say aye.