And we will move forward.

So today we'll be a little bit longer.

So with that, we have a few refreshments for you.

And just feel free to either get up or walk me.

I'll let you know we'll get those to you.

But the reason we want to take a little bit more time, we've got two presentations.

First, we're going to turn it over to ACM Larry Davis, Director Jamaican Warner will navigate through our compensation.

We'll have to probably think that around that.

We know that that has been a big part of what you all communicated to me.

And also a big part of what our staff is looking for.

The second half of our presentation today will highlight some of the discussion.

This is our kind of our second shot at talking about bonds.

This is more materialized.

If you have more information, you've got a email from that highlight a list.

I know the fire department has a number of things.

And we'll take some time to go through those.

You see the boards that are up.

This is again going to be a style where we will navigate through.

You also have what we really dug in and worked on at the retreat.

This will be the first chance to really put Vision 36 into action with our decision making matrix to help out with that.

Tiffany Shelton is going to help us facilitate that portion to navigate through.

And we will have to enjoy and have a good time.

So ACM letters.

Thank you, Mr.

Manager.

First presentation today, Jamaica Waterman, John Decker only.

Items or issues that will be part of your considerations of 2627.

This one deals with compensation.

It speaks somewhat to 2627 itself.

And what we are currently considering for the manager's recommended budget that's being worked on confirmed.

And if some of them is more contextual in nature, just to give you a better sense of what part of the budget compensation makes up, and what are those some of the primary components within and how that term is much broader than it's sometimes considered.

And it does go well beyond your actual salary, but includes a lot of other factors as well.

So if that's your mind, John, let you think.

So when you think about police exempt and fire exempt, we're talking about the managers of police and fire who are not eligible for overtime pay.

The non-exempt are your rank and file police and fire swarm personnel.

They are on step plans.

Speaking of step plans, those employees will receive one-step movement, which equates to a 4% increase, provided that they have at least met performance expectations over the prior year.

In addition, employees in rostered positions are the positions that work fewer than 1,000 hours per calendar year.

They work for wages and no benefit.

These employees will also receive uh increase to their minimum wage by 4.6% up to $18 per hour.

Any questions about this slide?

And if you have questions or comments at any time course stop, we'll go and break it.

Yes.

Question one.

And number two, we have talked about general employees that were previously on a step plan off step plan.

Can you tell us how the structure adjustment or whatever works for that?

Thank you.

Great question.

So the journey for both those employees on the step plan and those who are not roughly will end up in roughly the same place.

When it comes to step increases, those increases are predetermined and they're built in with a four percent increase.

And so for those employees who are not on a step plan, they have the opportunity for a 2.5% COLA and a merit that will average the 1.5%, roughly equals a 4% increase over the next fiscal year.

So the journey is about the same.

Of course, there couldn't be but with a built-in 4% step increase, uh, it sort of takes away the need for also a cost of living a house, if that makes sense.

But no general exact and general employees.

So the structure adjustment does not come with any pay increase.

I I'm going to go into further detail.

So the pay increases that will typically happen for those employees would be 2.5 plus 1.5 or a total of 4%.

And the same is true also for the SEP.

I think for clarity's sake, it would be better to adjust to specify that in detail.

I think it's misleading because certainly from the way this looks, everybody gets a 4% increase and the cost of living increase at set for fire and police step.

Thank you for that.

I have a slide later to go into detail about what the structure adjustment is and what it may not have.

But the only employees who would get an increase as a result of that change would be those employees whose salary falls below the new range memory.

So you might have some employees who are on the lower end of the pay range today, and once they have those, they would be below that new range measure.

And so we would bring them the issue.

But the overwhelming majority of employees are either going to get they're going to get the 2.5% cold problem and have an opportunity for a merit averaging of 1.5%.

So that there's parity in essence between the employees on the step plan and those who are not.

So they'll be fit for you to talk about it more if I could.

I will.

Yes.

You're correct.

So just for background for those who may not be aware, for many years, the only employees in our organization that are on a step plan is essentially a salary structure that has predetermined steps so that an employee can look at it and they can forecast out next year by perform will.

The year after that, I'm going to make why, so on and so forth.

As opposed to those not on the step plan, the salary varies based on performance, but management has some discretion on the exact amount of pay increases that they received.

Historically, only our sworn police and scorn fire have been on step plans.

Four or so years ago, there was some conversation around moving a portion of our general employees for lack of a better framing.

I would say a lot of our field workers to a similar set plan.

The rationale at that time was some employees felt that the merit increases were not always fair.

They felt that supervisors and managers were playing favors with merit increases.

Now we would conduct equity analysis after merit increases to see if we could flag any outliers or any evidence of discriminatory raises, and the data never suggested that.

But nevertheless, that was the perception that some had.

So at that time, council took the decision to view those employees into their very own set plan.

Well, four years on, we now hear from employees that there's not enough differentiation between performance, meaning I'm a rock star employee.

Today I do I do my work, I do above and beyond, and those who maybe don't do that extra, we both get the same increase.

And so after a lot of reflection and internal dialogue, we made the decision that it's better to move those employees back to the general salary structure where they came to claim, and really culturally, it's just a different context between the rank and file police department and the ranking file five.

The way that they work together, um this the job as opposed to in the general employee step plan.

You had employees from different departments all over the organization doing different kinds of work.

It just didn't fit as well.

So our plan is at the end of this fiscal year, those employees who are in the general employee step plan will in fact go back to the general salary structure.

Any other questions about this slide?

Okay.

Some workforce context, unemployment in North Carolina, and in Gifford County, you can see here is roughly consistent with what economists would consider full employment.

We are, I can tell you at least anecdotally, uh, in a very tight labor market and competition for account.

Um that's an exact time.

Okay.

All right.

Currently, at least as of this week, we have 2,998 full-time employees, 61 part-time benefited employees, and we have 595 roster employees.

For our benefited workforce, those full-time and part-time, on average, they have been with the city for almost 11 years, which really speaks to their loyalty to this community and to this organization, stability and to the expertise that exists in our working boards.

Um, there are some risks, of course.

Um, that means we have a lot of folks who are probably nearing the end of their tenure, and so there's a risk of a loss of institutional knowledge.

Also, for those newer workers in the workplace, they might experience at least the perception of a lack of opportunities for advancement or slow advancement.

Um despite the fact that we are in a very tough labor market, we do a good job of filling position only.

We have a goal to fill every vacant position within 60 days, and on average, we are just meeting that goal at 59 days.

And again, once we get folks in the door, they want to stay.

And so our voluntary turnout is less than 5%, which is really outstanding.

So, back to the minimum wage increases.

This slide tracks the progress that we have made in maintaining a living wage, and it also forward through 2030.

We are planning annual minimum increases of at least 6% each year through 2030.

Um, this reflects a sustained multi-year approach rather than just a one-time uh fix.

The recommended budget does raise the minimum salary from 41600, which is roughly 20 per hour, to 44,200 or 21 dollars and 25 cents.

Currently, today there are five benefited employees that are below 44,200.

So for those employees, we will make sure once this is implemented that they are raised today and that number again?

175 benefited employees out of over 3,000.

Roster employees, while many of them are students, retirees are those just seeking part-time work.

Um they are a big part of our operation, and so we wanted to make sure that they too can have wages needs, and this budget will raise the minimum roster wage up from 1721 to $18 per hour.

I want to make a note there, Jamaica.

This is this is something we talked about internal feedback.

This is uh a big thing on the parks and recreation and a few other areas that really rely on their roster employees through different seasonal jobs, uh, have really been pushing for this type.

So this is a really big um thing for for those departments that rely on.

And I'm sorry, he has a good question.

Are are you going to address uh compression after this?

With rosters or just with the minimum wage here going from 20 to 21 five.

So there is a future flat on that.

No, I and I I will tell you that um the relative number of folks impacted by that change, 175, it's around 5%.

I'm not I'm not even well I'm concerned about that, yes.

I'm concerned about the ones who are just above that who are here and they're not moving, or we say that they're not moving.

So they will move again.

Most of them will they'll get the 2.5% COLA, which is an automatic thing, and they'll also be eligible for merit-based increases, which will vary, but could be an additional 1.5% or more or less.

So they are they too will be moving, but only those employees of 175 who are primarily brand new into the organization will receive that extra amount to make sure that they are below above this threshold of 44,200.

Right, and those who are going who the 175 who are below the 442.

Are they getting the cola?

They do.

So they're getting the cola and they're getting the bump.

Those who are just above just get the cola.

So many of them, that 175, once they get a cold, and once they get a marriage increase, they will already leave 44,200.

Right, they're already above it.

Only those who remain below the additional support to get them to 44,000.

Before when we adjusted previous years, we just did police and fire and we accounted for compression.

Didn't we make adjustments to everybody above that line?

So that you're at you're absolutely right.

In the in the ideal scenario, if we're especially if we're going to make very impactful changes to pay, we do want to uh address internal equity concerns and make sure that we're not causing that wage compression where you have new workers making the same more than those longer tenures.

That the scale, the magnitude of this change is much smaller, and we don't think it justifies a major compression strategy, but you're correct.

Your memory is unless they said it's just above 44, too.

And so many of those employees, they too are also brand new.

These these employees who are even in or around this area, um, again, they are uh newer in their career, newer in their and so if you were here six months ago or nine months ago, it's very possible that someone new after this change is going to be making right on your heels.

And so we've made the determination that that level of compression is probably um beyond our ability to really address the discount.

Let me ask us a side question.

You know, what is what is the what is the comprehensive cost of a dollar increase for these 2900 employees?

Have you calculated that?

I haven't know that with police and buyer we're talking about what five hundred six hundred more than what's a smaller number than twenty nine hundred, but three thousand.

What is the dollar cost of this change?

Or I guess it's not even impacting everyone because it'll be a much smaller number because these 175 employees they're gonna get a code.

Some of them will also get marriage at different percentages.

By the time we have the new minimums, many of them will already be over that new minimum.

We're just establishing a floor to make sure that uh, you know, as people come to the organization, we're maintaining a living wage level.

Okay, it seems like to me that if our employees are most valuable resourced and we find a way, and we look at the 215, and granted, when I joined council, I think that number is 15.

It was the five for 15, yeah.

And those BH 215 is great, but we also know that and the and the living wages are much higher.

So some say in the range of 25.

Right.

So I'm concerned about those of our employees that we count on when is freezing outside their indication, you know, patching up a water main that we kind of leave them as collateral damage.

You know, tough it out.

You're you're 44.

But they really should have more.

We really should be doing more with compression to push everybody, I think.

Uh if there's anything we would do, we should just uh account for an increase in property taxes.

I think taking care of our people is the primary pay.

So I'd like to see a uh an adjustment for compression so that if I'm sitting at 44 201, I don't see everybody else coming up at me and I have that feeling maybe I leave and we we take that 5% attrish and move it up to 10% because people aren't happy.

Okay.

Thank you for that feedback.

Did you I will just um also add um because I I didn't get a chance to share this here with you.

That we will be moving to, so a significant number will force it an increase to that.

And that used to be what, 1213 or something for a roster's year.

This year currently is 17.20 cents.

It's going up four percent to eighteen.

Um it wasn't too long ago, and then it was 725 the minimum wage, right?

Okay, thank you for the feedback.

Talk more about the salary structure adjustments and exactly what that means.

This budget again will increase the salary structures for the general, the executive, police, and prior exempt classifications by four percent.

This is a pay range adjustment, not a pay increase.

Employees whose salaries already fall within the adjusted range will see no change to their pay.

Only those employees whose salaries fall below the new range minimum will receive an increase to that minimum.

Is the G13 pay grade, uh, which includes positions like libraries, also includes positions like cruise supervisors.

Every pay grade has three uh important milestones.

One is the uh minimum, which is the floor, uh, the absolute minimum that an employee can be paid.

The second is the midpoint, or what we sometimes call the control point.

That is um the value of uh we would expect a fully proficient employee in that job.

And then of course, the third milestone is the range maximum, which no matter how good your performance is, no matter how much experience you have, as a stewardship uh standpoint, there simply has to be a maximum amount that we're gonna pay for that particular piece of work, and that's the range maximum.

So when when we implement these structural adjustments, each of those milestones will be increased by 4%, as you can see here, highlighted at the bottom.

And only those employees who are below 48,691 would receive a pay increase to 48691.

We adjust our pay structures on a regular basis to keep our pay ranges competitive with the market, it helps us to be able to track people to the organization, and also to council member Holson's point, it helps us to be able to continue to revoit the people that we have so that they don't top out of your earning possession.

Okay, question.

So if I'm already 61603, and I'm a general employee, yes, then I'll get a 2.5 cost of living adjustment, and up to 1.5%.

This says permanent performance bonus, but is that an hourly rate or an actual phone?

So let me help you to that.

The 2.5% that is applied to the employees' current salary, which is 61603, yes, okay.

The 1.5% merit, and again, it can be more or less than 1.5%.

That's the difference between a step plan and a merit increase.

That is applied against the control point.

And so if you are an employee who are on you're on the bottom end of the pay range, a 1.5% increase actually ends up being percent.

If you are another employee, but you're in the upper end of the pay range, a 1.5% increase ends up being or less 7.5%, actually.

Because as you progress through your pay range, we try to slow down your pay to keep your pay from accelerating beyond an amount that we can afford to pay or that makes sense to pay.

So 1.5% merit is applied to that control point of our mid point.

But counselor, the term bonus because applies one time only, this this becomes part of your new base test.

But we need to change this to adjustment, not bonus.

In the word on your T because a bonus means a one-time payment, and doesn't mean that I'm changing my payments.

Thank you for that.

We have two ways to reward performance merit increases or step increases.

And it applies to the base salary.

Any more questions?

So I wanted also just briefly mention that while salary instructive adjustments keeps our help to keep our fairly competitive, we also rely on labor market data to help us validate where we stand.

So every two years we engage an independent consultant to conduct a labor market survey.

And these are positions that are constant, they exist across many organizations.

That's the point at which half of our peers pay more and half of our peers pay less.

And so just by way of example, if for uh purposes, let's say we were looking at our city clerk position, five peer cities, the consultant would reach out to those five organizations and say, hey, how much would you pay on your city clerk?

The consultant would rank those salaries from the highest to lows, and the third salary, the third highest salary is the 50th percentile of the city clerk pay.

That number, that 50 percentile is the figure that we use to anchor our positions, and so that ends up becoming our point or pay range control point for each of the pay ranges that exist in our salary structure.

This helps us to stay competitive with our peers, uh, but also maintain, of course, fiscal stewards trade.

Do we then adjust for longevity?

Or how does longevity or experience level?

So if we're going with the fourth example, if our peer cities, is this an entry level for a clerk position, or is this the highest level they pay, or how do you how do you negotiate?

I'm paying my clerk X dollars because they've been with me for 10 years and they have great experience versus this other city that's paying Y dollars because their person's brand we adjust for that panel.

That's a great point.

So I use five just because the math is easier that way to look at the third out five, but in reality, we have many, many more peers.

So in this year's 2026 labor market survey, we had 22, and a lot of the positions have multiple people in them.

So with a city clerk example, of course, most organizations only have, but for other uh positions like police officer or firefighter, there'll be dozens.

So the more data that you have, the more you're better able to control for those variances that someone was new in the job or someone's been there for four years.

Um, but when you have a small uh sample size, you can get outliers end up making bad decisions on a limited amount of data.

So our consultant has a threshold that they use to make sure before they report any data back to us that there's a sufficiently statistically significant data points for us to base that decision.

But you're right, some people will be new, some people will be old, older or more experienced, but it all kind of comes out in the watch with this amount of data.

Thank you.

And so as you see here, here are the current labor market peers that we compare ourselves to.

Most of them are North Carolina cities and towns.

There are some regional cities, some and far-flung places.

They're there for a distinct reason in particular to make sure that we draw appropriate comparisons for some of the unique positions that we have in our organization.

But for the most part, the data is current and it's very relevant to us in our geographic areas.

Um earlier, uh say this one, but this is the first, um, earlier in April, and our team is now data to try to develop recommendations.

And my understanding is that the plan is to bring those findings to council for evaluation and action.

Okay.

So performance-based increases, not bonuses, thank you for that.

There are two main ways in which this organization rewards performance through mayor increases and also through step increasing.

The recommended budget at this point includes merit increases for employees and the general executive, fire exempt and police exempt salary structures.

The departmental average or budget is 1.5%, but again, departments have discretion over individual amounts.

Some employees might receive zero, some might receive three, four, or five, or anywhere in between, so long as they don't go for budget.

As I mentioned earlier, merit increases are based on the control point, it's individual salary.

That's very intentional, and that we want to get employees at the lower end of the pay range up to the control point faster.

And then as you've been in a job for a longer time and you are now approaching the maximum, we want to slow down your pay so that you don't run out of room to grow.

Step increases, on the other hand, differ from merits in one key way.

The amount of the increase is predetermined, it's all or nothing.

If you meet expectations, you get 4%, and if you don't, you get as we mentioned earlier, the general employees step plan, those employees will be moving back to the general salary structure and will once again be eligible for their increases.

Any questions for that?

And who is generally here?

Executive includes uh department heads and above.

So anyone who's not police and fire, so this includes the those who are in power regulations.

Yes.

Well, not rosters, not the roster, but the 2995.

Everyone else, yeah.

If you're if you're in libraries, if you're in water, water resources, solid waste and recycling.

It can be more than that's right, on average, based upon work unit.

I can give somebody four or somebody zero.

Okay.

Other questions.

Right.

And then cost of living adjustments, we sort of hit on this, and I'll just quickly say that employees in these structures will be eligible for both the COVID and the merit.

Um, they're not mutually exclusive.

We base the amount of the cola to roughly approximate inflation, but we use the same inflation indicator that the Social Security Administration uses to determine it's COVID and inflation is percent, and so by going with 2.5%, that left us ample room in the budget to be able to award meaningful performance uh increases as well.

So all of these groups will receive an automatic 2.5% total.

Okay.

While a lot of what we talk about today has focused on base salary, which is of course important, we are making uh really deliberate efforts to make sure that employees understand and appreciate the full spectrum of their compensation.

And so you'll see listed here all the different special pay types, not all, let me correct myself, nowhere near all, um, but some of the more common ones of uh pay types and incentives and benefits that employees receive over and above just their base pay.

Each year we deliver uh personal station statements to employees, and I provided a uh hard copy to you at your place so that you can see a real life example of one.

This employee is a solid waste operator, excuse me, a heavy equipment operator in our solid waste and recycling department, and it just goes to illustrate the value of the total compensation.

This employee's base salary is just over $60,000.

But when you take into account all of the different uh benefits and the value of the paid leave and the insurance, you can see on the second page, this employees' total compensation is over $114,000.

We provide these statements to employees each year, roughly after tax after test time.

Is this employee considered to be hourly or a salary?

Salary.

This is a salary employee.

Now they're non-extent, which means over time, maybe a time and a half.

You just have to do some that, but yes, they're separate.

Any other questions about this?

Okay.

So since nearly half of our full-time benefit positions are in fire and in police, we thought it was worth highlighting some of the incentives specific to those departments.

This slide focuses on the fire department, which of course offers certification pay, offers incentives for working extra shifts.

There's some deferred compensation incentives, um, signing bonuses and other additional pay for serving on specialized teams.

This slide shows some of the similar incentives that our police department offers its team members.

You can of course leave that.

And there are some incentives that they had a costume.

Up to $5,000.

There's a military signing bonus because of the culture of these two organizations.

They're paramilitary organizations, and so armed services is preferable recruitment ground for them, and so we have a way of incentivizing that.

And so it's just 25 highlights.

I see a lot of these.

Okay.

It's not on here, so I have some.

I'm giving uh just an overview of the current current.

Yeah, anybody else.

I see there's one side for the fire incentives, one side for the police incentives, one for what they have in common.

Yes.

It would be nice to have uh a separate center of things what they have in different.

That would be really helpful.

Okay.

I think the main one that you've already heard of is the separation allowance.

That is a benefit that smaller police officers receive.

So that would be or the 401k.

So I can address that.

Um, there is a state 401k plan, again, mandated by the state that requires the city to make a 5% contribution into that account on behalf of those police officers.

The city of Greensboro voluntarily many, many years ago, before I even got to the city, um, city made the decision to um provide parity on that benefit.

So all other than police receive 3.25% into the 401A, and for firefighters who make a 2% contribution into their 457s, the city then voluntarily will match 1.75% into the 401A, thereby bringing them up also to 5%.

The main difference is for firefighters, they do have to make a 2% contribution to get that 1.75 budget.

I agree with April, and I'd like to see a comparison chart.

Um Council Member Holston's uh point when we talk about similarity in jobs.

Yeah, um, I don't see a difference in public safety is public safety.

And so we need to ensure that um it mirrors that when we are compensating.

So um is there a way that you could give us kind of a mirrored approach so we can see how to get there to where we are plus have comparable.

Yes, we can sort of highlight um the difference uh with um separation allowance and the difference with the deferred count.

Um those might be two areas.

Well, any differences for firing differences.

I will say there are many differences, so I think there's different pieces of work.

So some things might not be that's okay.

Yeah, I think yeah, I I think uh we also have to look at it what's possible uh around the risks that they take.

Uh you know, we're talking about just the equipment that they use shortens uh their lifespan.

Sorry, I could just say that one I was sitting here, but it's it's it's like um and so I don't really see anything that we're doing to compensate for what sacrifice.

And I know this is the current benefits.

Are we going to have this discussion about separation allowance um probable benefits provided?

That's above my paper, but I will say that this um I think we've already certainly a hearing um an interest to explore the differences and to Council Member Black's point to map out on what these are possibly as I said.

I think the desire ultimately is and Nicole I would speak for a bunch of us is that uh require the same as police ultimately anything else on this, yes.

Can you explain um the death benefit?

Yeah, and age and how many years of service is it how does that work?

Is it death death death?

It's not an essential benefit.

Yeah, it's true.

Definitely not an or is that explaining how that works.

I mean, because I see the death beneath a federal police five thousand dollars here and two times salary there the same and yes.

I just don't understand it's it's state differences.

So where the city is concerned, the death benefit is exactly the same.

Okay.

But if you are a sworn police officer and active at the time of your death, there is a state and paid for benefit of five thousand dollars.

So the state pays that for thousand dollars, yes.

Um and as far as the retirement differences, yes, a police officer can retire at an earlier time with a reduced benefit earlier than firefighters or earlier than any other city employee, and that's the way that the state um retirement system has formulated the eligibility criteria for police.

That's not something we would ever be in a position to change the asset.

It would be helpful if we could learn more about that, not necessarily from what we to want to change, but we also have the ability to lobby the state for changes, right?

I think if we fully understood that, then we could look at it from that perspective as well, and that's why we want to see the difference.

The difference.

Thank you.

And I think too that it would be helpful, you know, if something is out of the norm, like that is paid by the state to something in the I thought if we pay that 5,000.

Anybody online is gonna have to do that.

That's good, yeah.

Okay.

And that uh I'll turn it back over to John.

Yeah, thank you.

Uh sorry want to highlight some of the cost drivers as we enter um 2627.

Um we do have recurring uh calls and judgments based on a lot of what's not already covered here.

I just want to give you a range of some of those impacts that we're facing on your account budget.

So for those coals, marriage and steps, some dollars of addition for the budget next year.

Uh again, a large portion of our budget is the personnel of compensation, so that it's gonna have a direct impact on that.

Over the last few years, we've also seen uh normal overtime usage uh in police fire and some other departments.

Um we don't think that we're operationally gonna uh change that.

So we want to budget to the overtime we're using.

Um we've essentially lost any I'll say Slack, but it wasn't really Slack, it was uh crude budgeting in our salaries and and benefits to taking up over the last few years uh for various reasons.

So we need to address what's in the budget for for covering those.

Um that this reflects what we've been spending over the last few years, um, and and unlikely to reduce operations to that.

Um, really on the benefit side, we're looking at uh significant increases.

We talked a lot about uh the health insurance um we're facing uh as a city and and quite frankly everybody else's as well.

Um we're looking at somewhere between four and five million dollars additional uh impact just for health coverage next year from the quarter side.

Um similar uh benefit is the state mandated rate for uh pension contributions.

So that chart there highlights the changes over the last uh few years.

Uh you can see uh for general employees it's been about 11% increase over the last three years.

Uh they've been projecting into what the rate is for 26 about 13 percent for police officers.

Um, and then the highlighting below that the rate for employees is essentially stayed well, I think not essentially has stayed the same since it was established at six percent.

So uh again, those increases um will result in about a five to six million dollar increase in the budget next year just to cover those retirement rate increases.

25 million dollars just for compensation, I think.

For compensation.

And the the health insurance piece and that is net the net increase, or that is the total cost.

That's these are all just the net increases of what the budget cost driver might be for next year for those categories.

And I will say to your point, Councilmember Holston, uh, we are working internally and with our consultants unit a month before um to come up with some cost containment strategies because we really will make some recommendations here soon so that employees and their families will have ample opportunity to consider those changes before open enrollment in October and November.

So we're saying that they just just in general that the net increase in health insurance is five million dollars without any material changes.

I mean, that's just the cost of blue business is five million more just in health benefits.

Yes, or another five to six million increase just because the pension may enough we haven't done anything.

Yeah, just amazing.

If you take a look at the total cost payment of July ended out, just just to kind of put these in the real dollars, you see for this one employee of the year that this was pulled, we made it almost $8,800 contribution to the state retirement system, and over $12,000 contributions available on behalf of that one system.

So it's like taking care of people in the future stuff.

Of course, it's it is the cost of the expenses and being more so on the bail.

I think people it it's important for people to see that in their costs rose and studied out of yeah.

So any questions about any of this before we transition to bonds?

Just one more quick question.

Upper right green general and executive.

So we're talking about someone in the CMO's office is gonna say four percent structure adjustments like everybody gets the four percent.

I guess the control point or what is it?

Yeah, I I still haven't done a sufficient job of explaining the structure adjustments.

I can tell.

So the four percent structure adjustment really just means the pay range for that job goes up four percent.

If you're in the new range, you don't get anything.

It's only if your salary is below that new minimum, would you get raised today?

So it's very unlikely that anybody in the city manager's office is going to do any good.

I'm sorry there, that was contracted to we talked about service, but we're gonna be able to do that.

Um so there's really no problems of tax today.

We did not structure this this chart correctly.

Do not add four plus two of that.

You know, that's what we're doing.

We're gonna change that.

And also that performance bonus is gonna take this uh version down and replace it immediately.

Because those those three times are not added.

Okay.

In comparison to the four.

So roughly all employees.

Yeah.

Denise, and anybody else anything that's the point.

Well, I was since uh I was trying to think about maybe another way to explain it.

I wonder if um because the band that employees are all the group of employees, like the 3,000, roughly, they all sort of separate across a certain number of grades and puzzles.

And isn't it possible for you to sort of show a grouping of the in the movement that they take?

Yeah, yeah.

We have if you were to go out on the city's website now, people in closure apartment.

You'll see all of the salary structures listed there, and you can see from I think it's G7 maybe all the way up to G25, and you can see the pay ranges.

All of them together will shift upwards 4%.

And that gives all of us, no matter where we are in the organization, um, the rule that are, you know, that max salary is now four percent higher than it used to be.

Sorry, just the my understanding of the structure adjustment is that it adjusts so that we are um never dropping out.

So if we didn't move the structure adjustment, but we kept adjusting people, they would basically come out of that range.

Is that correct?

Individual pays would go, but the competitiveness of the pay range um just gets worse and worse all the time if you're not right.

It has to move together so it doesn't get out of lack.

Because in the past, often organizations and it's not just system probably move people, but the whole system would move.

And so they would stop and say, hey, we're getting really compressed, and we haven't made adjustments, so we don't need to move everything.

And then but now you're doing it all together.

Yes, I think you don't have that in the people.

Yeah.

So it's a salary range.

Yeah, a salary range.

We're just I I think most folks are probably more familiar with the two salary range.

And we know that it'll be paid salary range, it's just that's a bit of a target that we're looking at.

And add all that as a number that I'm sure everybody's finished at it back on.

Um, I this is our first project season.

So like May 1st, we're like locking in and eat briefing to uh these things.

And I respect our city manager, but I also just you know, having a conversation about book without folks.

I I definitely appreciate what you guys are offering us, but I want to lean into the experts in the room and just offer any staff or books.

Yeah, we'll just we don't yeah, no point in the work session.

Yeah, but you know, they they spoke to the city manager and the assistants, uh any concerns they have.

Okay.

Thanks for this.

No worries.

Thank you for your well, before we leave this topic, I do want to this is to your point.

This is our opportunity to make sure we're capturing, reflecting, and I'm kind of I'm curious to be typing in writing some notes here from just listening trying to capture.

Uh and obviously over the next few weeks, uh up to the point that I'll make the first presentation of my recommendation will be the 19.

But then, you know, the work has started, but we continue to intensify the work.

What are a few things that I want to make, I want to go down the list and you tell me if I'm missing anything that we need to follow up on.

Um I think Mary just highlighted a big the structuring or the way this particular slide uh outlines of uh what those adjustments are.

Um you asked for a comparative list of what the those the list of benefits that are provided for both police and fire.

Um I think I've heard a few comments about uh the previous request, and I think we need to provide some definitive articulation of what the supplement looks like.

Anything else that I'm missing that we need to make sure that we capture, bring back or identify going back to the to the the hourly employees, looking at that compression just above the 2125, what can we do to make sure that they're seeing I I just want to point out and I'm not debating at all.

I want to be very clear about that, but um if you address those employees who are just above above, then you have the employees who are at 22.

But we didn't buy when you address the employees at 22, you have the employees who are at 23.

And so that's that's the trick that um we start to address compression created by this change.

Where do you stop just I understand that?

Well, we we we did look at that for police and fire, and and these are our our employees also.

So maybe we need to maybe we need to come back and give like a more holistic view of when I remember a couple times when we um and and several times when you address those first in police and fire, you may understand looking over at the firefighter.

So you know, if you are the engineer and you're just below, you know, a captain of that or in the system sheet, and there's compression there, and then we address those.

So it may not have been the whole structure that we addressed.

We addressed the difference that we identified.

So it does sound like that we're not looking at anybody else above.

Exactly what you're what you're speaking to counseling.

Uh typically it's when we were making significant range differences where we might be moving uh firefighters 10 or 12 percent.

Well you could just do that and leave the rest of the department alone.

You had to account for that throughout the entire department, or you were you've done more harm than good about something like that.

But the specific question you asked, we talked about trying to calculate that uh and giving we'll do it now.

Um but the reason we didn't do it this time is because as Jemia said, we don't know how many of those hundred and seventy-five will actually be below the minimum after they get the rates.

Now we'll go back and make some estimates.

Um a third, a half, two-thirds of them.

But most of them won't be below that minimum anymore after they get their rates.

But we'll go back and try to determine a reasonable estimate of how many will still be below the minimum, and therefore we'll need to get another extra bond just to get it.

Probably not be a significant amount of money, and that's why we're not considering uh compression uh strategy at all of it.

Yeah.

And I appreciate that.

Still we're talking about the 175.

We're not talking about those that are just above the 175.

That's that's my point.

Yeah.

I want to at least look at those who are above 175, above the 2125, and see what the impact is, what the what the spread is, uh, what the difference is.

We should we think it will be minimal, but we will we will confirm or do not one more thing to the point about the uh the the benefits.

I understand that some of the benefits are fairly specific, like the military, but I'd like to see a common sizing of these benefits, just keep it simple.

You know, was it kiss keep it?

And uh so that we're not you know having hit me, it's charts and grass and you're different from the good for me, but they get the their paycheck from the very same place.

I agree.

I I personally as someone who's involved in administering them, I agree, but you know, all of these incentives um were business led.

I mean, people in the business said, hey, we need a tool to incentivize people who have to work nights.

The firefighters say, hey, we need a tool to have to incentivize people to work days too.

Um we need all of these different things, so that's how we had approaching now 200 different pay codes for all kinds of incentives and special pay types, house they pay print because there were business I think the yeah, I think it also kind of give Jemai some credit here, and I'm looking over at the chief.

A couple of years ago, we had challenges with making sure we were retaining and providing different incentives or being competitive in the recruiting, because there are other organizations around us that that chief and uh and the police chief compete with to recruit and retain.

So a lot of what you see is a result of of uh several different folks working the the different leaders to be more aggressive in some of the package of things that that we provide.

And I just disagree that that uh there are some circumstances that we need to account for in different work groups, but where we can, I think it needs to be the same.

And you know, capital, you all live in the world, who can tell us more so what they are.

Those that are special, they're special.

If they're not special, make a comment.

Okay, okay.

So you can try to take that right there.

And then we're all doing what you're going to do.

You don't have to tell you.

Any drinks in our end?

Well, what's the last one?

Yeah, the I mean, yeah.

Yeah, I'm not sure if I'm going to say that.

Um three minutes.

Three minutes.

Yeah.

So I wanted to stop the summer.

And uh I want to try to get this thing going before uh really about turn to a punk and only start, you know.

Um so this next slide, I'm gonna ask Tiffany Shelton um tremendous amount of work.

I think I've sent you all some of the work she's done internally with our staff.

Uh and again, she's done a uh a lot of the work that you see uh is the work that she's doing behind the scenes.

So I'm gonna turn it over to start talking about this next step.

And Larry, well Larry, do you want to prompt that program?

Right hand we will.

Um so the purpose of the rest of the time we'll spend this afternoon is really to dig in and get some prioritization going around the bottom project.

So do you have some homework?

And so I want everybody to breathe in and read outs and layers of what that might look like.

We're gonna bring it into the room and have some really good conversation this afternoon.

So I did want to pause to share a few quick slides with you before we get in some of the you know the same things about how we want to spend our time, but we need at any time, observations, questions, tip we slow down, we can do walk.

So first we do want to do some prioritization.

Let's get some loops and some tiers of these projects.

Oh, I saw a hand.

Okay, I saw I'm trying to be a conversation.

The second one is some next steps, some directives for where we go from here.

Um, and a really important thing that we wanted to lift is this decision making matrix that is in place now.

We want to get a little feedback because this is new for you all, it's new for the organization.

So while we use it, we also want to know how to get work for you.

So in an informal sense, if we're gonna use it going forward and what that looks like, if we need to make some adjustments so that it fix the work that you're trying to do.

Some commitments anytime we're doing facilitate the work like this.

We do want to pause and just get it all on the same page.

So what that looks like for this afternoon is as we talk, we're gonna lean into that criteria.

We're gonna lean into that decision making matrix, and we're gonna support each other in that conversation.

Um, advocacy through alignment over maybe some um and goal information, really looking at impact.

I think that's why everyone's here today anyway.

So versus maybe the history of the project or some additional context, um, being concise so all voices can be in the room and then the progress over perfection.

So anybody did not agree to any of that.

We're good.

All right.

So again, our decision making criteria.

I really like you.

You've got some very detailed material that you gotta that I think is a packet, four or five pages.

This is really helpful and useful as we talk this afternoon because really what it is saying is what do we value?

What questions are we asking as we look at these range of projects so much under the alignment?

Uh, does it allow them to go into?

Does it promote talent that pay for stuff over time, lean into our identity and our partners to the table, as well as choose one for this council that I've heard repeatedly, and that's around access.

So we're gonna work mainly from here.

I did want to give you a highlight.

What are we gonna do?

Because you received the packet, I believe, and I do want to shout out buddy department and did some amazing work, but you can receive very thorough information that they've done the work of connecting it to Digi 36.

And so by doing that, it's like a lot of thoughts.

Really good stuff.

We've got an hour and 15 minutes.

So what does that look like?

Right.

And so is give you a process here that's gonna lean into some things.

So again, we talked a lot every time we get together.

I hear a lot of you all talking about your distance styles.

So whether you're in B and you're like, when I leave here, I need us to have decided something.

Should you say it?

All right, yes, yes.

So we structured in a way where we will make some decisions in this room today.

Um, for those that might be more on I see, we got some structure around the process.

So we're uh getting the voices out, but we're moving in uh an intentional direction.

Um for my eyes, then hopefully we're working in a way that's engaged and collaborative.

I know where I don't know, but we can see some intentionality around that, so hopefully, but anyone, please pause and we can stop and um address it.

So the first thing we're gonna do, I will walk you through an exercise that's gonna take these 33 projects, compare that down with something that we can manage today.

The first thing that we'll do, we will have an opportunity for those projects that kind of come to the surface to dig a little bit deeper, use that matrix to talk a little bit more about those.

And then when we leave today, if we can kind of get around that goal, then we've got at least a handful of projects that we can say we're we're behind these with the knowledge that it doesn't end today, right?

There's additional conversation and work to be done around this.

So we're not expecting that.

Remember again what we are working for is a solution, in which council will publicly ask for both, which you will you will direct staff to approach the local government commission for to start the process for a November referenda.

So we're roughly a month out.

So as Tony's saying we don't expect we won't we won't turn it down if it happened.

Yeah.

We don't expect this to in another hour to fix the 40 million and the 40 minutes.

But this is that initial triage that he's gonna start you with this afternoon.

And we'll be ready for subsequent meetings when we will get closer and closer to that final figure.

But just want you to know that June 2nd day is still what we're working with.

Does it have to be 40 million or 40 million?

Or can it be 37 and 43 or something?

It absolutely can be.

Yeah, those are just kind of marking points if you're giving you a few information about the continual meeting what we're still.

I've got a handout for you.

I've just I can move it around as well if that's okay.

This is a handout that just for reference reminds you what is currently available through previous, let's see the 22.

Uh, this was one slide that you received in a in a previous presentation, and I just didn't have a better way of doing this, so I just printed out the one piece.

So this reminds you that you still have money to be borrowed from the 2022 area.

Thank you.

Okay, so I haven't asked.

Um, I saw when a couple of you came to the room wondering where we haven't assigned us here, we absolutely are not.

But all these colors will help us kind of stay organized and be succinct and focused in our conversation.

So if you worked with this a little bit in advance, some of you may have done check marks.

I I love it.

I don't know.

We've got tabs, we've got highlights.

I I mean I'm excited to see this.

So whatever that looks like for you now is once we bring it into the room, we're gonna get on one of four.

So I'm gonna ask you to do something for me.

And with you haven't looked at this before on your own in the quiet for a moment or two, you may already have it ready to roll.

If you were making the decision, just you and we had to say what are the five or six projects.

Aligns with the criteria that you would recommend we fund.

I want you to identify right here where you are, circle them if you made a list, highlight if you've got cities, whatever that looks like.

If it was just up to you, what five or six rose to the top for you as you may in against the these and central questions about what we're saying we value as a city.

Take a whole and do that just for me.

Five or six, then maybe five or six.

Thank you, Larry.

So we're we're bringing some my Clarity into it.

So when we say it rises to the top, it is that um distinguishing factor.

It checks off five or six of those boxes for you.

We're looking at the criteria, five or six projects.

Thank you.

So there it takes away that I have to agree because we're going to get to a point where we have to agree.

But right in every five or six criteria, your top five or six.

That would be your line, I was thinking.

We don't have it.

Wrote it down.

I can make way too much money.

Correct.

I don't like my notes on here, so it's still means that you definitely should be able to get some first one.

Yeah, see if you're probably not a good thing.

That was a good one.

I'm just looking at my structure just that gives me clean sound.

Oh, another minute.

Right, not your seven minutes or so.

That's one interpretation.

Yeah, so we can't re find part of that for that speaker paper.

If you were to be good, it's just agency.

Absolutely different.

Right.

Uh or top or six.

Five or six criteria.

And as a full root.

Right.

So the X1.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, there's nothing.

I want to give it some kind of career with all the seconds.

So I don't get any.

That's what I'm designing.

You give me your top five or six.

And I don't understand.

But I'm gonna ranges.

Oh yeah.

This is still a certain thing.

This is what the motors will also be motivated to go for.

That is a component structure.

Yeah, so I do GOT.

You don't have to all session.

I think that would be a good thing.

No, that's two different ones.

So one is a really replacement for Marl, and then we have just a red one.

So we all have to focus in on that like making it with the nearest star.

So how is it?

I've heard that's just bad as that maintenance.

Do it.

I guess you know how you're addressed.

That surely is a two-arm tree.

That's fine.

Oh I got that.

Got a part two.

You've got a part two.

I want to be uh a good steward of you all sign.

We've got a part two.

So you've got some dots in front of you.

Everybody should have some.

If you do not, let me know.

All I want you to do is locate your top five or six projects on the board.

They're organized for you based on the the leading department.

Your five or six projects and give it a green dot.

That's all we're doing.

And your five or six projects, so give me give me one of the rules.

So how much are you?

A reminder.

I don't this is a continuous process.

So some of you don't do it.

I just go back to nine and you're not too that is totally fine.

This weekend.

For the purposes of this area really gives us an opportunity to proceed and read it for it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yep.

Absolutely.

First pass.

Yes.

City of the way it's just green.

Is it green?

Ready, free and done.

This is the other side.

Oh yeah.

Yeah, because it's not green.

Don't make one phrase out.

No, no, no.

Okay.

Most of the money are supposed to be six.

I would do problem off with a hash.

Oh, yeah, the main thing.

That's one point.

Well, I would say we're trying to like the possibility.

I suppose I need um there are about the slides, but it's only six dollars.

I think I'll keep the wire to rental three.

Okay.

Do I see?

Okay.

Hold on.

The 4303 works for me in your position.

Yeah, my house is actually one that priority or given out five or six dots.

If you need more green, cost.

Alright.

Put all dots of mine like that on there.

Once five things.

I'm just trying to do a little lesson.

Let's friendly fine.

All right.

Oh my goodness, guys.

This is not on my brain boards for the record.

I think that's like that is that is that should be your first year.

I think I think we're done five.

That's not Chris and you know how to do it.

I just say they are not like that.

That one's not good.

And we'll use all the dots on that side.

Well, then they're both basically that's like some.

Oh, that's right.

Yeah, I'm like, they don't even know that.

It's right now basically.

Oh, sorry, stay free.

Four nine.

Yeah.

I didn't really see that too.

Yeah.

And why not using code?

Right.

Oh, it says we're all seeing the series.

All right.

And they're wrapping up.

I won't get set the stage for where we're going in terms of our conversations.

I had a problem there.

Jumping in.

So on MPO and transportation, that there is a potential, I'm not saying it's gonna happen for many of the transportation things like the sidewalks and the bridge and the uh some of the paving streets and you know, buy and write some of that can go through the MPO and the state may pay something and the federal government may pay something.

Now the problem is that everything is getting delayed, especially with the state because there's no budget and you know, people getting pushed back and pushed back a bunch.

So, you know, I foresee that some of those could come under the federal and state, and then we put in like 10% or 20%, may not be the fool.

Right, right.

And the other thing was, and it was still comment my observation is that as we are growing, um, it's just my personal comment.

Is that a coming time?

Yeah, we need to make sure we have enough fire coverage for the new growth we are saying.

Well, I'm gonna honor feedback of your personal uh position because I think it will align a lot of where the conversation's going.

So you have to I want to give you a go back to the criteria.

So I I want to pick one and I'm gonna do my best impressions of of Jim Ross.

I like to talk about it.

Yeah, okay.

So this is the first time that we're really seeing this on the base screen.

Please take that back to five.

Um but so not slow example kind of in comparison to some of the others.

So not through a lot of the risk where we're going.

I think you just talked about growth.

Uh not talent impact really in that area where we're seeing a lot of growth and a lot of development for some of the the industries, uh physical sustainability, uh not grow is definitely in that area where we're seeing growth and the tax bases when we continue to decrease in that area.

Access is going to access that needs definitively strong fire coverage, uh collaboration.

I think that's the one with the EMS is on location.

If you you see in your description, and I want to if you don't know David Castro, he is also one of the brains behind this work and the big packet that you got.

So he did a lot of details to make sure you could see some of those that has collaboration and achieve.

Um how many examples?

I know we've got uh the one seven uh Windover is a collaboration with EMS.

Um locations.

So again, there'll be uh a good bit of that funding to support that with EMS and your kind of part of that and then competitive advantage again.

That's an area that that's highly sought after from the standpoint of us being a competitive advantage, uh both for how they can handle some of the developments that we've seen in that area.

I just want to do a quick rundown of how uh we've kind of processed how those compare based on the criteria, and thank you for highlighting that on the big screen.

And this is a I mean it it looks and feels different, especially when you break down some of the work that Tiffany's done to really draw out what does alignment mean instead of just saying a lot.

It means that it aligned with where we're actually built.

I do that.

Well, I just want to kind of put in everybody's mind that while this is well while the projects are looking at a dollar figures attached down here to go to the future of things we haven't thought of, like economic development programs or permanent support of housing.

None of that's appearing in here anywhere.

So we may want to think as we go through our discussions in terms of okay, it's a 40 million dollar bond, and we want to hold out three thousand three million, four million, whatever, go towards those other really big things that we haven't even talked about yet.

So I'm just throwing that out there to go in the back of people's minds.

That you don't know what you don't know and how and as those things are coming up, let's bring them into the running because once we get a trivialist, both of those are factors that you all have the jurisdiction to say that's the cap.

That's how we want to proceed.

What I want to help you do today is take these and begin to pair this down for some more intentional conversation.

And I think um City Manager Davis did an excellent job of walking us through when we look at it, how we test that criteria against that because even once we take these, which is what we're gonna do now, and the dots were a very intentional exercise because where we want to focus our attention on things like it's no need to spend the entire afternoon discussing the gate city boulevard streetscape today, if when you all rank your very top things, nobody kind of honed in on it.

Does that mean it's not an important project?

Does it make it might not make it not at all?

For today, that's kind of where our thoughts are going.

Is that make sense?

So just my ability to count.

I might not be able to do a lot of things with it, but I can count, and there's that's a big one.

I was saying, can we get consensus that's so that we can take tell us what it is?

Because again, I absolutely will, and you're not close to a nine, and I still may have it.

All right, I have transportation bridge replacements on World Street, Washington Street Bridges over Murray Boulevard.

All right, so it'll take that one to see that's one of our top priorities.

Um, this is actually our highest one, it appears to be uh parks of recreation, um, recreation center improvements.

About five past there.

So it looks like our next tier down would be ones that have three.

Um, so we'll go back here to transportation, and this is bridge maintenance program out of transportation and that's also more three.

Okay, so our next cluster here around our fire stations.

And so that is fire station and box road, I think that's it.

Three fire station 48 at um location since you are and then um fire station 49 or refurbished there as well.

So I'm gonna pause here, check in with you all.

Do you feel like this is a manageable point of discussion for today, or are there any more that you want to take a step and add?

Because if we go to we've got quite a few that got two dots, but we'll pause here if there's anyone that's like this.

If we leave this room and we haven't at least discussed this thing, I'm gonna just don't work like this.

So I'm circumference in that.

Because I want I want to give you something manageable for this afternoon.

The dots are spoken.

Yeah, can you explain what happens next?

Yes.

So when we are looking at D, so like we're still a decision agent, or then I'll know that we're dock.

Okay, if I'm able to lean on our leadership to make an executive decision, let's stop at this level of dots for today because I think we have a very important question, which is you've given us some top priority.

What are we doing with this?

All right, can we do can we stop there?

We're coming back to these, we will touch these and a subsequent session.

Yep.

If we think about it, yes.

All right, so what are we doing next when we dig into this process isn't stuck?

It is the subject.

So yes, we got these up.

Um we can in a very structured way.

We're okay.

Everybody's good.

All right, Paul, excuse me.

If we get through this first group fast enough, can we add more?

Absolutely.

All right, okay, Steve.

If you do know your peers better than that, five minutes are not at all.

Okay, so yes, my question is can we not group a few of transportation?

Transportation together because you know, I did mention the potential grants, but that doesn't mean we're getting them.

So I think they still need to be listed like sidewalks and imagine.

The things that go together under I'll give a counter if we work with these top priorities.

What I will commit to before we be today is getting organized so what we get back maybe in some notes or in our own.

Yeah.

I think that'll work that kind of uh in the middle of now.

All right, so here we are.

Here we are.

So again, excellent question, and again, what are we doing and why are we doing?

We're going back now is our time to dig in a little bit.

So that first layer was just so that we have something manageable to know what we're talking about this afternoon.

It would be amazing if we can get through all of these.

But we want to start that's uh highest number of dots, one project at a time to bring it into the room for you all you all to have some conversation, right?

So our main two questions driving that conversation is is to put it into is over for you all to have some dialogue, but again, the end result, what is the end result?

We want to leave here today in the at least a handful of projects that you all can say we're we plan to move forward with given the wording right and giving the direction to staff to move forward to prepare to submit this in sort of for 2026.

Is there also for things that might not govern the priority just for this particular upcoming time to something where it might be like um wayfinding implementation?

Six million.

Um maybe even an idea of like what public private partnership would look like to get that done.

Absolutely.

So just so you know, like just because the project cannot make it fair, doesn't mean it dies.

So somebody saying about the crystal access to access a while back.

Um we have some information that you know, are some of these able to be supported by other, whether it's a uh a bond from the federal government or you know, a grant sorry, grant from the federal government or you know, different funding streams or avenues, and absolutely.

Uh for example, right now we've got a transit-oriented development grant that's going on around the depot area along Church Street.

So, you know, some of those some of the things can be.

And you know, once we just kind of put it in the back of my mind.

So we've finding obviously is important to you.

So one of the things that Tiffany's gonna go back and start doing is work with GDOT to find out are there other avenues out there that we haven't checked yet that that may be available for that type of funding?

And I just made a promise with you.

So I wanna I don't want to move on, I want to stay with this thought for a minute because there have been a couple of observations that have said that well, are you factoring this in?

Are we thinking about this?

And so let's even before we dig into this, I want to go pausing to check in with you about how this framework worked for you to get here.

Because there may be an observation that says this helped me think through some things, but there's some yes.

It didn't account for this, or this was super helpful, and I never thought about it in this way.

So I we are we are absolutely going towards looking at these, getting some consensus around these for discussion, but I think what's coming up in the room is really important because what you also make an observations about is even more about the process as it is the actual projects themselves.

Any any feedback for that?

How how was this for you when you had to look at this in the answer, even in the moment?

Um talking.

I think that for vision 36, it's our vision framework, and since you know, we created or had a collaborated around the vision, we've also had to take in some of the deferred maintenance and and other things to consider.

And uh I personally feel like we need to be taken care of home because that has not been a priority, and so that kind of that's what led me into some of my decision making, is because the practice has been to kind of really focus on the vision 36 or the vision of how we want to go forward, the economic development, the growth, but we're not coming back to the center and saying, are we taking care of some of these deferred things that have been kind of kicked out?

So when I look at distributing my selections, it was more of we gotta start biting biting this big elephant thing or and trying to to really consider that in our considerations for how we grow, because we can continue to grow, but it doesn't mean that the center has been taken care of.

Can I ask the a clarifying point there?

So you say that do you feel that these criteria only look forward?

Do these not kind of tap into the things that might be pre-existing things that that you want to tackle the needs?

I think that it speaks to moving forward.

Um there's nothing wrong with the vision at all.

And I think we we came up with a very collaborative mindset of how we want to move forward but it was before we actually got you know had these work sessions where we had to take in a lot of what has needs to be done.

And so that change to me it changed the consideration of what I would prioritize.

It doesn't mean that I don't agree with the vision or how we're planning to move forward collectively as a council but it just also means that we cannot ignore um you know like station 48 exist I'm 54 and it was there when I was a system and it looks the same as it did when I was a child so we can't ignore that those type of things we have to address as we move forward with this large vision which I think is equally as great.

Right now my decision was kind of driven more on we've got to address some of those sustained things that we haven't touched.

Okay and just let Mary jump in if I can say that that's a follow up to that because that's what I'm really interested in in hearing from for anyone who's willing to did you did you have to shoehorn your preferences into the matrix or were you able to say no deferred maintenance really does have a physical sustainability aspect to it where it really does have or did you have to kind of say you know today these six things really aren't working but I've got to deal with sort of maintenance and I'll get back to these six criteria when the time's right or or none none of the I I think it's a little bit of both like you know we can't expand wire infrastructure without talking about water infrastructure that we have to deal with internally.

We can't talk about expanding parts and doing more with parts without extensive amount of deferred maintenance that we have.

We can't talk about expanding the fire stations without talking about the ones that need to be refurbished.

So it's just kind of like if it's hand in hand um and when you're looking at something that is deteriorating that's where the priority comes together.

And so it's not that you don't want this you know that this is great.

Like I didn't see Randall and Road Corridor as a selection and I have to be okay with that because I'm looking at some of the priorities.

And it's a no on the the top priority.

But I have to be okay with that because everything that I see here is is a need.

Yeah it's I agree with everything that Chris was saying.

And you can see that reflected in what we all think there's a lot of deferred main that's involved here.

I kind of view this a little differently I get this yes it's future looking but let's use station 49 as an example.

Your station my station yeah minor those I I think that that's deferred maintenance.

Does it help grow and keep palette?

Yes it does because it else are our firefighters does it open the door people have been locked out I mean doesn't have and I think same thing with men they might have been built at the same time.

It doesn't have facilities for female women prior fighters.

It's not ADA compliant so that checks that box um does it strengthen our identity yes we have one of the best fire departments in the country.

So I don't I I don't think not one of the best we also we don't necessarily have to check every single one of these boxes.

But I think I viewed it a little differently in that yes I can fit these deferred maintenance projects into this framework.

And that's just one example but I mean you can see that our this council priorities are really we gotta take care of some of those maintenance.

And as a framework it'll be how it needed to the forward facing and that's what you're focusing on the left anyway because if everything might need to take care of what's already existing of those 10 things that already exist how we use this appear that day I don't dis I think my focus was more intentional on you've got to address some of these um so what I'm hearing also like as we move through this just having that piece of do we make room for other considerations like all of these things stacked out with is was Disney a need before sequencing I have eight other planning and then um I agree uh taking care of home and pairing it like Rick's borough to take care of our growth and to take care of current residents is where we want to have balance.

Um in an ideal world if I were queen for a day, um these would already be taken care of so that this city could dream bigger, right?

Um if if there was something uh that would take care of these needs and and some of the the the negligence of of of delays right um and deterioration over time I would like for us to figure out um yeah I can the bridge um the bridges or or that bridge on borough um that's the corridor from ACM then so yes uh does it support our um prioritization of growing going east uh could it potential uh we also have it uh some businesses in in that in that area have also made huge complaints.

I'm saying I make decisions um for our collective good but then we want to give the prioritize right uh and that's hard and so I want to name that right uh because I think that if I say uh what makes uh Greensboro great uh what is extracting uh what is good out of Greensboro which is keeping Greensboro green um that feels really hard when we're taking care of roofs and roads you don't have a signal and um and so I just want to say uh I if because this is new to me uh would love to see if there were other things that would the media top priorities I don't might not know about like I said with LD uh uh so that we could particularly uh I'm sorry they're doing this L C I'm sorry the three was our first electric it's a our street state was our first uh I want to say what we first collectively said no to and I think it was because uh whereas we understand that um uh the impact of those good things that they would be finance that they would be exhaustible like before we could even get anything else done we would have to redo them again you know saying and so some of this uh historic so I don't see how this cool uh I think that we leave some of this decision making if we could make it um and I know that we'd have to just do this bonds for June uh for November consideration but I would love to see uh going for more of a scaffolding decision of like here's two years here's four years and this is how we can get this done to eight um I think that would be more helpful too sorry and you're fine Tammy and then you and then I think the criteria was very helpful for me but what it lacked was dreaming big.

Yeah and if we don't set aside money for dreaming big now and we will never have money to start the big dream.

And that's that's I don't think we have to decide now what that big dream is but I think that big dream kind of hits all of those and at the same time it misses all of them because we don't can't define the cancel.

So that that's what I would add.

I think that I'm sorry I forgot my culminating idea was after I said a whole bunch is to Mary's point this is still giving voters to the ballot and I'm not motivated necessarily to think people when people look at like our needs like fire and all of those things people want to see us be cre uh creative.

I like I it the winter chief of snow code um bond was motivating it I think that it was a big idea that brought in those partnerships that was kind of that was super groundbreaking and brought in a lot of um partners and to point some of the things that I think we want to do are just not demonstrating here.

All right and then I vote Council member Thurns I remember because of all of these we do have to trigger I go back to council member bike's comments about uh looking at that deferred magnets and make sure we don't forget about it the structure and go back to uh council member Parker when she said earlier I'm not sure if everybody heard it but you know if this is a bond, a piece of bonds then you gotta make sure that we're delivering for the people and in a sense they we have to see you have a vision for the future but also they're taking care of our stuff.

And in a sense they we they have to see you have a vision for the future.

But also they're taking care of our stuff.

Yes.

If we go to them and I call it kind of the trait face.

Go out and we have these power calls that we try to sell these bonds and you look at us and say but you have so much stuff in the back.

You know, because we have to take care of so we gotta do it all.

Well okay it needs to really um still and I I won't repeat but I will acknowledge shape that this council is um having this discussion at this time about how do we take care of the things that have been um that that have we haven't been able to get to you know for possible economic reasons of the past and how do we look ahead at the same time.

So to build on I think what everyone is saying um process.

I'm thinking maybe what if we and that's answer today but potentially um agree to a certain portion of a bond for the dreaming part.

So that is just picking up on um what has been said overall but maybe what you were pointing to is we know that um we want to keep our debt service at a certain level we know that we um want to and there's things that that have a need that we need to continue to drive but if we know that there is a portion we can um account for or that we can work towards and then amongst us we have to agree to agree of this area here and we are needing the deferred that we can start to see those things that are forward looking while we're maintaining or meeting the need for the deferred maintenance.

I whispered to uh city manager Davis and said I'm gonna I'm hearing everything in the room to try to get us a deliverable out of this and I think that's a an excellent kind of suggestion based on everything that we've heard that will align we can begin this framework but we've got to make some of those decisions we've got something else that helps us factor in what you're thinking.

That's after after many other questions.

Okay yeah um so my comment was just basically that you know when you look at these and you're thinking like uh you know renovating or doing this may not fit all of these categories yes actually it does uh you know fixing the recreation centers because we're we're wanting families to come here and live and if we don't have the proper equipment like in the playgrounds or in the recreation centers or and safe equipment.

And very much like the fire spaces if we don't have those properly um built and staff and all the that is growing us because you know you don't want to take your child to a a recreation center where you see water coming in the ceiling or you see uh mold on the the bricks um things like that so it it really does a so many of these do fit into those categories so I you know I'm just wanting that and then we have yeah so one of the things I like about the live stack funding is that there's line tech funding for new projects and then there's line tech funding for um maintenance or revisions or repairs, renovations or repairs.

So is it possible when we're having this bond conversation that we could break it up because I I really do like um what the Mises uplifting um and we we do have a lot of priorities that well they're all on the the revision side right the renovation read out kind of what everybody know what we don't need all right so that's only new right vote getting um is uh improvements to the recreation centers um out of parts of recreation at a transportation it was the bridge replacements uh both at replacements or maintenance in both cases so again um there and the fire you have a new fire station and we're furishing of two so on the fire side we have some badness and then kind of take here what's already in place for it for the rest of this is really around um maintaining and I'm just thinking of how we project this out to the general about what we decide goes on the bond.

I think it's good if we say here's the here the things that we are repairing and then here are like one or two new things to look forward to.

Yeah.

Um and I think that maybe that might sell it but not I don't want to say sell it.

Um and I think that maybe that might sell it but uh I don't want to say sell it but selling for you just with the active in the room that is maybe room for both of those things in the initial in terms of staff supporting you are you looking for something very objective and will really percentage wise or just a mindfulness that there's a balance.

I think at this point a mindfulness okay is that there's a balance and it's a I think it's it can't be balanced because we really do need we really do need the deferred maintenance the most but um but we do need to have some insolution new to I want to interject one question because I want to be mindful of of you all's time and we'll keep having this conversation based on where the discussion is going in the in the shift in terms of that thought process are we still okay with what we determine here as things that go forward or is there you understand what I'm putting in order for just the first discussion.

Yeah not forever just the first I want to make sure we if we have anything else yeah we know what's one on there okay for three two things that would make help me um what we haven't had are details about the transportation piece.

Like what is the bridge about to collapse or do you are we doing you know what it is but I think it's it's important to know what state we're talking about when we're talking about sidewalk maintenance what that what does that mean?

Um because I saw sidewalk installation and I saw sidewalk a little bit more definition about that um uh more speaking to the bridge um life of the bridge um but also I still would like to see out of these projects which ones have potential for other types of funding um because that also will to weigh in for me if there are other opportunities for seeking funding for streetscape then you know maybe be as prioritized as something else um so they kind of are all on the board all of them are equally important as far as I'm concerned but if we have other avenues of getting them funded through grants or whatever it is it may weigh differently than the uh something that just has to come out of this fund.

Is there a reason that I think um crystal just goes to at the minute the bridge like we've got two patterns right maintenance um and then like full on tear it down building it.

Same thing with sidewalks.

Yep sidewalks we have maintenance we have new why isn't that grouped together as just sidewalks you know maintenance repair replace as one why are we differentiating between kind of the the new piece for the full on repair versus the maintenance piece.

We do have eight other bridges as well that are in the top 10 bridges with the maintenance costs right now and the notes maintenance that needs to be done for repair.

So that's kind of why we separated that the other thing is that in terms of bridge maintenance are reports um from studies so that we have 12 maintenance I just think did you have a I just wanted to to kind of get some idea here.

I added up those six projects um based off of the cost projections and that's at 31 point nine million we've got changeless we have the either money ultimate or to dream but I'm I'm with Tiffany on let's push him forward with these six and then the next time we meet we'll we'll push one or other idea.

And not to belabor the point but just to feel good about it.

Does there need to be any discussion because that was a part of the process that if you needed to bring anything in the room on these are we feel good about these that's tier one we're good.

I think that's our expensive I have discussion.

When we come back yes um the parts is 7.5 million I think isn't it reparations.

We have another point four, 1.5, and another 4.5.

Okay.

Then anyway, the same question is I would like to see more detail on those parks in terms of what are we fixing at those parks because we may take something out of that and do the um you know, if something might do another put something other from the parks and recreation boards, slot that into that right or something like that.

It would be helpful next time to have more information on exactly what are we talking about by parking what are we hope that it's excellent.

Well that'll be that would really be all back to you to make that determination.

But it means your your central guys.

So our priorities of the vision thirty-six was uh uh building east.

Um growing our open core.

What were the other ones?

Absolutely.

Well, I don't say that is because we were coming.

I think historic uh there's areas that has historic investment and then uh yes, we think about what new industry is coming, uh so they're gonna look for the robust downtown.

It's um gonna grow our tax space that is gonna take care of the city as a whole.

Um so that I think to your point there's like what takes care of the city as a whole, um, but then also maybe heals some of the things that have been historically in London and hard.

So it's a both area.

So yes, I would just advocate to say that downtown is still uh part of that uh vision through this council.

I don't know what would like eight you all closed because I think working through things like this sometimes when it's new and then even in new and all those things trying to figure out what it looks like, but I think this was a really good illustration of trying to connect the work you've already been doing to where you're going.

And so just this is the harvest work session of record to me in my opinion.

Well, this is about that feedback is possible.

Okay, well, that's not a good thing.

But I will say we'll only cut for feedback.

Um I'm asking you that if you have an opportunity to share um with our leadership, how this was for you to tease uncle if there's different data that you need or whatever we got what you needed out of the city.

She did one for four nine five.

I love the great thank you.

Another crunches, uh uh going back to the comment about staffing.

Remember, you do have the option to think about this as multiple replies at 26 and 20 gig and RAC C or found the fifth tasks to stop it at 40 or thereabouts.

I have one more question for me.

Is there a couple like engineering inspection items that we're at risk of losing buildings if we don't do them?

And I you know, if we don't do something with this roof in the next three years, we're losing this library or we're losing this building.

We need to know that.

So long as long as for instance the roof at the cultural arts as leakers and it's gonna be degrading the entire building if we don't have a lot of different things.

Well, we've got the same thing that comes to the library and the library and we've also not charged rank.

That's what I was trying to say.

Okay, agree, agreed, I know all that.

I'm just saying we we need to know how bad they are until we get to a point where it's so bad we can't do anything.

That's that's what I think that's exactly how critical is surface.

Um this is for LB.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So some of these things that didn't get picked, the two um is all of this contingent on bond.

Meaning, do some of these make their way into the budget in other ways.

Um I think some of the parts talk and I think that was basically what other options will be.

Yeah, right.

Okay.

Right, absolutely.

Yeah, right.

Right.

I don't even know if these are your people.

These are just the early leadership.

Right.

And I'll give I'm acknowledged.

Uh Councilmember Parker ready to mention this earlier, and it may kind of slip by one of the deliverables in Vision 36 is we need to lean much harder into public private partnerships.

Yes.

Um I mean so when you talk about facilities like the Cultural Arts Center, which provide support for external partners.

I mean, that would be an ideal location for something like a public private partnership.

Uh but and I'm not only isolating us from that, but then it gives you a response to your question.

Yes, we're consistently thinking of how do we do some of these things uh outside of this particular funding stream.

So I would see.

No, it's okay.

I mean, I I would think it'd like for it before further.

I think so.

Like everybody's looking at me as far as one third vote.

So I think personally, I think taking it all back and then coming back to see what we have left in the ways of monies that we're talking about and all of those things.

I my opinion, but I'll leave it up to the group.

That's fine.

And we don't really need to think of we can't take a vote, but we can express our options.

I know you have some thoughts on this.

What are you what are you thinking or what what are three top things you want to see me and the staff bring back into this scenario?

So I I think what could be helpful is based on the conversation we've been having.

Have these items similar to the grid that you have, but cover for some of the pieces that I've brought up.

Is it is there grant funding that can be available?

Is this ideal for private partnership?

Um are there other sources that funding right and and and just sort of put that across and and then for and I don't know if we can list this on or not, but the the aspect that is the things that are new versus maintenance um for us to i that's probably parts of this, but at least give us a target, like a number, like a percentage or a number that we would work towards.

Okay.

Um work with you all sports.

I think that if we could have because that's what I was sort of hearing, is there's comparison pieces here that would it's sort of the if-then statement for each of the items.

I would go with that if I knew that this would just take that off if I had this.

Yeah, I sorry, are you done?

I I just want to be careful because like I said earlier, some things can be potentially with a grant be done with the grant, but yet we can't bank on that yet because we don't know.

Yeah.

So that's that's a lot of my concern.

The potential for it, I think is is what we're looking at.

There are there's some things that we're gonna have to pay for.

One fund.

And so that would be a different category than somewhere where we know there's access to other funds, whether they they're in queue or not, there's still that opportunity.

Right.

Or or if it's a a public-private partnership, there's opportunity there that I think should be incorporated into the thought process.

But there's gonna be some clear black and white things that need to happen within this conversation that we can go ahead and say we've got to commit to that.

And maybe asking the ones that are our safety concern.

Right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

And there's some stuff that we can take on that just is the side of those are limited obligations on.

So just there's that.

Maybe one final comment that's okay.

It's is you give if you go through this some of you use the phrase dreaming big.

Um as you think about that.

Um remember that when the tech when the time comes and we go on the referendum, we have to give it some kind of uh title.

We have to give it some kind of a group.

Uh as much as I would love if we're just to say five million dollars so we can dream big, it's gonna be so we can or so we can dream big about our parts and rec or recreation.

So just think about where in what area of the city do you want to do your dreaming next or start structuring how will we write that as a economic development?

I mean, we can general bonds and for that, yeah.

Right housing.

Can I throw out one other thing Sure one other thing for us to think about I think it wasn't sexy I don't even know if it has any dots on it.

Um was traffic calming measures in neighborhoods.

Right.

Because that's one of the biggest things we hear from speeding from um our constituents and it's really didn't fit any of the like deferred maintenance or anything but it's something that I think the public would feel of impact is above impact from and I think my mind that's that's kind of yeah we need to at least think about it in a great put it in if we're not going to put it in.

Right.

We need to talk about it yeah we need to I I I think that with the delay around those things are it's like I don't want to pay for another study.

I don't want to pay you know when you have such urgent needs if there's already a plan that we can pay pay for and pull the trigger on I'm ready to do that.

But another plan is not something you know I just could if that's what I'm gonna stop something that happens that can't be a priority right now.

Got it.

I don't think everybody all right if you say manager anything out what you say I would accept I would accept it most of the return so I was going to go here a second don't even need uh he said it wasn't a plan with installation y'all first of all if you want to make it now