All righty, welcome.

Good evening.

I am calling uh to order the December 2nd City Council meeting for Gulfport, Florida.

Uh tonight our invocation will be given by Councilmember Shaw.

It will be followed by the Pledge of Allegiance.

Um let me just say, because I do see several new faces in here.

If anybody's in here and their phone might be on, be sure you turn it off right now.

We'd appreciate that.

Mine's in the car, so I can't forget.

Um so we will uh stand for uh Marlena and then the Pledge of Allegiance.

Oh, I'm called.

Unlike any other creatures on this planet, humans can learn and understand without having experienced.

They can think themselves into other people's places.

We do not need magic to change the world.

We carry all the power we need inside ourselves already.

We have the power to imagine better.

J.K.

Rowling.

To the Republic for which it stands.

One nation under God.

Thank you.

Roll call if you will, City Clerk.

Councilmember Shaw, present.

Councilmember Early?

Present.

Vice Mayor Thanos.

Present.

Mayor Love.

Here.

City Attorney Salzman.

Here.

City Manager O'Reilly.

Here.

City Clerk Carico is present.

Councilmember Jackson has asked to be excused.

All right.

So tonight we are going to have a presentation from Linda Fisher of Ford Pinellas.

And this was um discussion that was started several months ago just to kind of see where this particular city council uh sat on um ADUs.

And then of course we had to wait before we got our comp plan back, but there's been some work being done behind the scenes, so now Linda's gonna come up and give us a presentation of where we are and where the state is on this and the whole bit.

So if you would please oh, we have two presenters tonight.

I didn't know.

So Mr.

Taylor's gonna be working with introduction.

Okay, thank you.

But Linda Fisher has a great uh presentation for you this evening.

Um there's a lot of good information and things to think about during this process.

But with that, I'll just go ahead and turn it over to Linda.

All righty, thank you.

So am I hearing a phone going off?

It's not mine.

Okay.

I've heard it twice now.

All righty.

Thank you, Linda.

Okay, thank you very much.

It is always nice to be here.

Um I'm gonna start off how I usually do.

Uh, for those in the audience who don't know me.

Um, I work for Ford Pinellas.

We are the county wide agency that coordinates land use and transportation uh planning across Pinellas County.

And we also provide technical assistance uh with planning to local governments, and of course that's why I'm here today to help the city study whether to allow ADUs and how to do it.

On a personal note, um, I also happen to live in a neighborhood in St.

Pete that I believe has the highest number of ADUs in the city.

Uh I included some pictures of all the houses uh immediately around me that have them.

This is one side of one block.

And until I started studying ADUs, I didn't even realize how many we have in the neighborhood.

So I can bring a little bit of first hand experience to the study.

Super.

I know that your city manager has given you a really thorough introduction to ADUs.

You had a great presentation and discussion back in June.

I'll be covering a lot of the same topics, but I'll bring in as much additional information and perspective as I can.

So I'll start with some background.

ADUs are defined by state statute.

They have to be secondary to a primary dwelling unit.

They have to have a separate kitchen, bathroom, and sleeping area, but they can be either attached to the main house or detached relative to the main dwelling.

So why would you want ADUs in your community?

Well, first and foremost, they just provide more housing options in single family neighborhoods, usually smaller, lower cost units that still fit into the neighborhood character.

They're also very useful for extended family households.

You can have an adult child or an elderly parent live close by.

And they can also serve as a source of income for homeowners who rent them out.

Nine local governments around Pinellas County allow ADUs to be built in single family neighborhoods in their current codes.

But historic examples are found in virtually every community in Pinellas County.

They're classified as more than one house per parcel.

Now that changed just this year.

New ADUs are now getting a unique classification, but they're not changing the old ones, so most properties in the county will still have that old classification.

Goldport has 113 properties with that more than one house per parcel code.

A lot of them really do have multiple single family homes on one parcel, but a lot of them are ADUs.

So I did like a visual check of a good size sample of them, and at least half of them did appear to be ADUs.

And that tracks with city staff's estimates that you have about 60 in the city.

More than 90% of them were built before 1960, before your current zoning codes in an era when it was more common to have a variety of housing types in your single family neighborhoods.

So what else does state law say about ADUs?

Well, there's only one mention of them in Florida statutes, but it is a little bit confusing.

It says that local governments can allow them in single family neighborhoods, but then there's a statement that the owner must sign an affidavit that they'll be used as affordable housing.

Now, when I came across this, I knew that most of our local governments don't do this.

Even though the state loves to get into the business of local land development regulation, this would be an unusual level of micromanagement.

That you can only have this specific type of housing if it's affordable housing.

So I reached out to the Florida Housing Coalition.

They are pretty much the authority on statewide housing law.

They literally wrote the book on ADUs.

They have a guidebook that's used statewide.

And they told me that their interpretation, and it seems to be the same interpretation from the majority of local governments that they've worked with in Florida is that the affidavit is only required if ADUs are part of a formal affordable housing program.

Otherwise, you can build them in your community like any other type of housing.

Locally, I believe only Largo uses them as part of their formal affordable housing and requires that affidavit.

Closer to home, what are the countywide requirements for ADUs?

I mentioned at the beginning that my agency coordinates land use planning across all the local governments in Pinellas.

We do that through a document called the Countywide Rules, and that is a guidebook for local comprehensive plans and land development codes.

And we have an optional provision in the rules that says if you allow ADUs in your community, you don't have to count them against your density standard.

If you allow five units per acre and you already have those five units built, you can add ADUs on top of that.

It's like a density bonus to incentivize ADUs.

As with all optional provisions in the rules, you would have to adopt your own local regulations that enable that.

And it's designed to encourage housing that's affordable countywide.

And we have model regulations that any local government can use for all kinds of housing, including ADUs.

So that'll be another resource that we use.

So we've talked about the state and the county.

Now let's talk about the city's regulations.

As you discussed in June, you do have one policy in the comp plan that stating that the city shall allow flexibility for garage apartments.

Of course, that's just one type of ADU.

And while it's important policy support for ADUs, it's not really enough to create a regulatory foundation.

So you will want to have more than that in your comp plan.

As you've also discussed, ADUs aren't defined or distinguished in your land development code, so they're just treated like any other dwelling unit.

If you want to put an ADU on your property, you have to meet the same requirements as if you were building a whole new house.

They are only allowed in zoning districts that permit two or more houses per parcel, and you would have to meet a large minimum lot size.

Now I just want to mention that you have two regulatory maps that are easy to get confused.

One is your future land use map in your comprehensive plan.

So when you hear residential low or residential medium, those are future land use categories.

They're more general, but they have future land use categories have maximum density and intensity standards and a list of permitted uses.

This is the starting point for your land use regulations.

Any changes to these categories have to be approved by the state.

Then there's your zoning map.

So when you hear R1, R2, R3, those are zoning districts, and they're more detailed by design.

They also do have standards for density, intensity, and permitted uses, but they have to be consistent with the underlying future land use categories.

The standards can be lower, but they can't be higher.

And zoning districts have a lot more specific regulations.

Building height, setbacks, parking, the appearance of buildings, all the things that make up the character of your community.

You can make changes to your zoning districts without getting the state involved.

You can just approve them as long as what you're doing is consistent with the comprehensive plan.

So that gives us a roadmap for what kind of amendments we would need to make.

We'll need to amend the comprehensive plan to define ADUs and allow them as a permitted use.

And if you're going to use that optional provision where they don't count against the density standard, then you'll need to say that in your comp plan as well.

The specifics go into your land development code.

In what zoning districts will ADUs be allowed?

What are the regulations for how big they can be, what they need to look like, what kind of approval process will be required, all of that.

And I'm going to talk more about those specifics in the second part of my presentation, which is going to start momentarily, but first the last bit of background I wanted to mention is, and you all may already, of course, know this is that a bill has been filed again this year to require local governments to allow ADUs, and it has some provisions that affect how you can regulate them.

So I'm going to wait and talk about that bill at the end of the presentation.

For now, let's pretend the bill doesn't exist, and let's talk about the regulatory decisions that you'll need to make as a city.

Now you did talk about a lot of these things in June, but I know that there's a lot to decide.

I'm not going to be looking for those decisions today, unless there's something that you're already sure about.

Today is more to get a sense of what kind of information and analysis do you need to help you make the decisions to decide what is the best fit for Gulfport.

And as we go through, I'll talk about some approaches that other local governments in Pinellas County take.

So where should ADUs be allowed to go?

Identifying the right future land use categories and zoning districts can be tricky.

So I'm going to talk more about that on the next slide.

Apart from that, do you want to allow them in every residential area or do you only want to allow them where you have alleys, say?

Among the other local governments in Pinellas, only Safety Harbor requires ADUs to be either on an alley or on a corner lot.

But a couple of others provide incentives for being on an alley.

For example, St.

Pete allows a smaller minimum lot size if you have alley access.

So that's something to consider.

But then there's the big one.

Do you want to allow ADUs in the coastal high hazard area or flood zones?

Most of the local governments in Pinellas that allow ADUs do allow them in those areas.

Largo is the only exception.

They don't allow ADUs in either the CHHA or the special flood hazard area.

And the unincorporated county requires ADUs to be smaller if they're in the CHHA.

But for all the others, it's just a matter of requiring them to be built up to current building codes for flood zones and be elevated if needed.

So when you're thinking about where to allow ADUs, there are two other big questions.

What zoning districts do you want to allow them in, and what types of parcels do you want to allow them on?

If everybody built single family houses in single family zoning districts, life would be a lot easier.

But we know that there are single family homes all over the place.

And even in your areas that are zoned for exclusively single family use, there are historic duplexes and triplexes and sometimes even non-residential uses.

So who gets to have an ADU?

I will say that most of the local governments I looked at allow them on single family parcels, regardless of zoning districts.

And I believe only Safety Harbor limits it to single family districts only.

You'll hear about Safety Harbor a lot because they're always the most restrictive example for every one of these things I'm going to talk about.

Okay, how many units do you want to allow per parcel?

Earlier I showed you some examples of houses on my block that each have two ADUs.

And this house is across the street from me.

It's actually a triplex with an ADU.

But St.

Pete is a special case because they do allow up to four units per lot in at least some single family neighborhoods.

All of the other cities have a limit of one ADU per parcel, but most would allow a duplex or triplex to have an ADU.

How big of a lot should you require?

The largest minimum lot size that I've seen is surprisingly in St.

Pete.

Outside of the historic parts of the city, there's a minimum of 10,000 square feet unless you have an alley.

For those that do have a minimum lot size, the lowest is the unincorporated county at 2800 square feet.

But about half of the cities have no minimum lot size at all.

They rely on building coverage, setbacks, and green space, and I know that you all talked about taking that same approach back in June.

How big should ADUs be?

I found only one city with a minimum size, and that was Safety Harbor at 300 square feet.

But what about maximum size?

Should that be an absolute number of square feet, or should that be a percentage of the primary dwelling?

The largest maximum size I've seen is a thousand square feet in unincorporated Pinellas County.

But 800 is a lot more common.

For those that impose a percentage limit, Tarpon Springs is the lowest.

Your ADU can only be 20% of the size of the main structure.

But St.

Pete is the highest at 67%.

Some cities have both a square footage and a person and percentage requirements.

So that's again something else to balance as you're looking at this.

And then there's also height.

Typically that's either governed by the maximum height allowed in the zoning district for any building, or it's two stories, or it's 25 feet.

There was no consensus across the city, but everybody was one of those three.

What should ADUs look like?

Every city that I looked at allows ADUs to be either attached or detached, and they can be elevated or ground level, except in flood zones where they're required to be elevated.

You might want to require that the entrance be oriented in a certain way.

Largo requires that the door to the ADU not be in line of sight to neighboring properties.

Not everyone had building design regulations, but those that did typically stated that the roof pitch, paint colors, and overall architectural style has to be similar to the primary dwelling.

Another big one.

Should you require additional off-street parking spaces?

The most restrictive city locally is Oldmar, and they actually require two additional parking spaces per ADU.

A few others have no additional parking requirements.

A more common approach is to require one parking space, but allow it to be waived under certain conditions.

If the unit is below a certain size, if there's on-street parking, and or if it's located within a certain distance of a bus line.

Should you regulate how an ADU property is used?

Dunedin requires residents of an ADU to actually be related to the property owners of the property owners have to live in the main unit.

But that's unusual.

Most local governments require the property owner to either live in the primary dwelling or the ADU, and then the other unit can be rented out to anybody.

And the county actually waives that requirement if both units are certified as affordable housing.

Another big issue can you stop ADUs from being used as vacation rentals?

Under current state law, an ADU is treated like any other dwelling unit.

So if you allow houses to be used as vacation rentals in a zoning district, willingly or otherwise, you also have to allow the ADUs to be used that way.

Now, if you require the property owner to live on site, that can help mitigate a lot of the negative issues that can come from vacation rentals.

You could also potentially work out an agreement with a property owner for something like a restrictive covenant, but that has to be voluntary on the part of the property owner.

How should ADUs be approved?

You can uh do you want to make them a buy right use?

And if that's the case, can they be approved administratively, or are there other additional steps in the process that would require a public hearing?

Or do you want to make them a conditional use or a special exception that always requires a public hearing?

The most common approach locally is to make the uses by right and allow administrative approval as part of the building permit process as long as all the other requirements are met.

There is also the question of do you want to charge impact fees over and above what you would charge for the single family home alone?

And that's one that I need to research further because I honestly don't know what local governments are doing for that.

Lastly, there are two kinds of potential impacts that you'll need to consider.

One is the impact on the immediate neighbors.

Could ADUs cause a parking problem or traffic, lower property values, crime?

I don't have to tell any of you up on the dais that if you allow new development in an established neighborhood, those are some of the concerns you're you're probably going to hear.

And the best way to address those concerns and perceptions is to talk to other local governments who allow ADUs.

And have they had these problems?

And if so, how did they address them?

I can tell you as a resident of an ADU heavy neighborhood that I have never seen issues like this, but I'm only one person.

So we need to talk to the other local governments about their experiences.

And the other type of potential impact is to city services.

If every single family property can have an ADU, how many of those are actually likely to get built?

Does a city have enough capacity built into its water and sewer contracts?

Does each ADU get an additional trash and recycle bin or do they share with the main house?

And does that affect the city's contract for those services?

Do you have enough police and fire capacity?

Will it be difficult for them to physically reach those properties?

Will residents still be able to evacuate easily if there's a storm.

But we do need to do some analysis to be able to give you an answer to that question.

And those are the major regulatory decisions that you need to consider.

And we'll be talking about all of these topics throughout the study.

I did want to circle back to that ADU bill and what it will mean if it becomes law.

As currently written, it would require each local government to pass an ordinance allowing ADUs in single family zoning districts by July 1st, 2026.

It would prohibit you from imposing additional parking requirements under at least some circumstances.

And you wouldn't be able to require the resident to live on site.

You would also not be able to restrict the property from being rented out, with a big exception that you can prohibit vacation rentals.

So that is a that is a good thing.

But that is also why it didn't, the same bill didn't pass last year.

The House wanted to remove that clause, but the Senate refused to let them, and they couldn't come to an agreement.

So if an ADU bill passes this year, hopefully that clause will stay in.

And please don't forget that anybody in this room can always reach out to your legislators and let them know how you feel about this bill or any other bill, whether it's good or bad.

rentals so that is a that is a good thing um but that is also why it didn't the same bill didn't pass last year uh the house wanted to remove that clause but the senate refused to let them and they couldn't come to an agreement so if uh an a deu bill passes this year hopefully that clause will stay in and um please don't forget that anybody in this room can always reach out to your legislators and let them know how you feel about this bill or any other bill whether uh it's good or bad I'm gonna finish by talking about the next steps for the study with or without the ADU bill uh today is task one our kickoff meeting um I'm gonna take in all the direction that you give me today uh for task two I'm gonna be talking uh more in depth to other local governments and other agencies and stakeholders uh to get a better idea of the potential impacts of allowing ADUs and how to address them task three will be drafting the actual regulations for your consideration and once you're comfortable with them then we can move on to adopting that language into your comprehensive plan and land development we'll work on tasks four and five at the same time so uh once the comp plan amendments are approved by the state you can turn around and uh uh consider those land development code amendments now if that ADU bill comes becomes law uh very likely we can skip task four um you you probably won't need the comp plan amendment and in fact you'll be required to complete task five by July first I will make sure that the ordinance is ready to go uh by that date and if this law passes it doesn't mean that all this other work was for nothing uh it's just the opposite because now you've seen how many decisions that you need to consider you'll have answered all those questions by July 1st so you won't need to scramble uh you will be ahead of the curve okay so I have talked a lot are there any uh questions that I can answer today or any direction that you'd like to provide speaking order we're gonna go in speaking order for this I don't have any questions at this time all righty I do have a question um so owner must be there if we pass that does that include our snowbird community like in ward four we have a lot of families and less snowbirds I think than the other wards but what if the owner isn't always there it that's a good question.

I would think that as long as nobody else lived there I mean if that's the way your code is written okay and I'm gonna look at your city attorney and not put you on the spot but just tell you that I'm gonna ask you this question later because I really don't know the answer today.

Okay.

That's it.

Thanks thank you.

So did the city manager share with you the things that we had already agreed on.

Yes and I wanted just wanted to start fresh to see if you all still had consensus for those things.

I know one of them was the um not having a minimum lot size and I mean like my I mean we had a whole list of questions up there you you don't have that slide but I don't know if you could go back to the slides and we can see what consensus we we do have on those things.

Okay sure this that's a good way to do it so I don't know if if maybe on each slide we can do talking order and then move on from there.

That'd be fine.

Okay.

So I was gonna look see if I had my notes with me I didn't I didn't bring those notes with me because I didn't know we were going to do that but go ahead that's why I was looking to see for the same reason.

It was setbacks.

We were wanted to make sure that we had the setback we were as I understood we were going to be built anywhere we had we need to talk about whether it should be in the coastal hazard area but otherwise anywhere as long as they met the current setbacks any size lot correct that I have a I have a question first before we go there.

I know that we have it in writing and we can pull it up for what the consensus was unless somebody feels like they've dramatically changed their mind but my question is at what point um if we had a consensus at what point does this get turned over to our board our planning and zoning board our volunteer board for them to work this and manipulate this and then come back to us you know considering where we did have consensus and where we didn't have consensus and I would I'm just guessing that you would work with them somewhat and that you all would present to us a couple of different models based on that.

So the you would be aware, and again, we can get, I know that our city manager can get you where we were on consensus.

You would be aware of where we started our consensus, where we were not in agreement, and our planning and zoning board would be in the same position, knowing that, and and again, each week goes by we get a better um handle on whether this new bill will be passed or not.

And um, so I'm just thinking that it's important that we get our questions answered, but we don't necessarily have to work on consensus again tonight because we did.

Are you all right with that?

And the things that as I understand it that we didn't for sure all agree on was parking, whether the person, the owner had to live there.

Exactly.

Yes, we were in disagreement on that.

And then we talked about lot coverage.

You also had the question about lot coverage about how big is it going to be the 40 percent or you things like that.

That was a big issue.

Okay, yeah, because right now it's for the a building can be 40 percent of the lot, whether we would allow a little more coverage for an ADU.

Exactly.

Even if they sit met the setbacks.

Exactly.

Okay.

And that was we and you've seen those notes.

Right.

And that that was pretty much it, that was why we felt comfortable coming to this point to have the presentation, not to go through and say, okay, unless someone does have real issues with something that you all previously, that was where the path we were going.

Okay.

And for us, the ADU used as short-term rentals isn't as big an issue because we only allow short-term rentals in a very small area, so that would not be particularly an issue for us, we would just have to enforce it.

And if the law passes, that would take away that the parking issue because they would not allow us to have parking.

But the other things about the lot size, I mean how much which percentage of the coverage, that we would still have to authority over, and whether the owner no, they said the owner doesn't have to live there, right?

The bill?

The bill would not allow you to require.

Okay, so the only question we'd have left if that bill passes is amount of the lot that's covered.

That's correct.

Okay.

Right.

And I didn't we also discuss if we were willing to um the way I remember it, we were not willing, we weren't so worried about the minimum lot size, but we weren't willing to change our setbacks.

Exactly.

And that's what we're vice mayor just mentioned.

Yes, that if you put, you know, it because you have bigger homes that may be smaller than a home with an ADU.

But they meet the rear yard setbacks.

And the other question we had, and we were kind of all over the place was are you going to allow variances to those setbacks?

Because at present I can get a variance for a rear yard setback or a side yard setback.

People do it for sheds all the time.

Right.

Are you going to allow that?

Then that's things that we need to talk about because if you if you're going to allow them, then understand how that factors into your 40 percent, those type things.

Because if I extend too far back, now I don't have a place to park in the rear of the building.

So those type things are going to be a big issue that we have to work through before we make a recommendation.

And we'll, as Ms.

Fisher spoke of, this will go to the planning and zoning board.

They'll look at it.

And any ordinance revel revolving around land development regulations has to go to them first, also.

And as you saw with the comp plan amendments, that went to the planning and zoning board first.

Yeah, and I don't think we talked about alley access or not, but because a lot of the city doesn't have alleys, so that then that would be disadvantaging them.

So I think that's what Ms.

And correct me if I'm wrong, Linda.

One of the things that you're going to make decisions on, are you going to create entitlements for certain property owners that are not available to other property owners?

Okay, well, I just wanted you to know because someone could say you're letting them have that in the almost, and I hate to use the cliche, two classes of city of property owners.

Am I right?

You've seen that.

Yes.

Okay.

Anything else?

So then I will I was going to mention to the S uh STRs, but um we already have a pretty strong ordinance on that that we are enforcing better.

Um so the two things you said that I wanted to to question, if I heard you right, the state requires that there be a kitchen in the ADU.

Um maybe even before we discussed it officially in in June, um, somebody can't they can't build something without a including a kitchen.

And then how is a kitchen defined?

So this question came up um from Tarpon Springs, and they wanted to know if a kitchenette would be allowed, if it's a sink and a mini fridge and a microwave, and we said uh we made the interpretation that we would consider that enough of a kitchen at the countywide level to meet our RADU.

You know, we we use the same definition, but then we have that additional clause about density.

Uh but is it good enough for the state?

Or or state overrules the county.

Well, we will just adopt this definition, and then the interpretation of the kitchen at qualifying would be a local decision.

Currently, in our code, um the definition includes items like stoves, even microwaves, um, refrigerators, sinks.

Is a kitchen.

For a kitchen, yes.

Okay.

All righty.

And then my second question is um.

So I wanted to clarify, because to me, this is in conflict to what I heard the city manager say to me.

And I'm one of you, I misunderstood.

So I think what I heard you say was that with the ADUs that they don't count against density.

Zoning requirements now.

The countywide rules allow you to adopt that regulation.

So uh your if your local plans and codes are more restrictive than the countywide rules, then that's what controls.

But we say in the countywide rules, you can allow them not to be count.

It's hard, there's some a lot of negatives in that sentence.

We allow you to not count ADUs against density, but you have to adopt local regulations that say that, and you don't have that today.

Oh, and so that's where the conflict is.

Exactly.

Okay.

When when I spoke to you, yeah, you explained that our code today counts a kitchen and a full living unit as a density issue.

The county would but and even if you look at the sheet when I gave it to you the last time with the in June, what it did was say that's a local decision.

And that's what it comes down, it's a local decision if you want to count it towards density or not.

Okay.

I I needed to get clear on that, and now I see the difference between it.

I don't have any other questions.

Um for me, because it had been since June that we did this and we had the consensus.

I mean, it helped me that you reviewed this all again, and it did, you know.

I I do remember as you were hitting on each of the issues, I do remember our discussions and pretty much where we were going on that.

Yeah, I didn't want to make any assumptions that what you decided a few months ago was still written in stone, or if I had any additional information that would would help you decisions, but I will take that information as well as the input from tonight.

Super and into the next slide.

Yeah, I don't think we made any any decisions.

We just were aware uh of how much we were in sync and we did know which issues we were not in sync, but I'm not so sure we that we didn't agree on everything, but I don't think anything was like so big that we couldn't work it out.

Yeah, we didn't have any major deal breakers.

I did think of one other thing.

I know that some places have recommended or or allowed to have pre-approved ADUs, so that you could have maybe several styles or something, and as long as you were building one of those, it made the whole permitting process easier.

Then you would just have to have a survey and where you're gonna put it and it if that all worked.

But um is that something that you need to put in the code, or would that just be uh a permitting decision?

If it's a different approval process, you would need to put it in the code.

I believe St.

Pete does that, or if if they don't do it today, they've at least been working on it.

And then I Largo was considering it too.

So um, so there's some precedent, I can get more information about that.

But if it's a different approval process, more streamlined, it needs to go in your code.

Okay, because if there could be some companies that you know, ABC company that has these three models, and as long as those all get approved, anybody could just say, okay, I want bottom B, and it would cut their permitting process down to a quarter or whatever.

And you wouldn't have to go into that much detail in the code, you would just say pre-approved under this process.

Yeah.

Okay, good.

Very good.

Anyone else any questions?

No.

Okay, thank you.

As you know, we're not making any decisions tonight, but we do appreciate the presentation.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you.

All righty.

So with that, then we are going to move to public comment.

So if you would like to speak during public comment, I see some new faces here, so let me just uh clarify.

Public comment is three minutes.

You can speak to anything that you'd want to would like to speak to.

It's not a give and take conversation, okay?

You come up, you say whatever you have to say, you may get a response when we have an opportunity to speak.

You might not hear a response until the next meeting, okay.

Um, so it's not a conversation back and forth.

So show of hands for uh public comment, okay, Mr.

Bush.

Thank you, Mayor.

Council, Teresa, Andrew, Jim.

Since I received the message from Officer Parrish last September that our building was destroyed.

The city of Gulfport has been hard at work rebuilding from the damage sustained from Helene, Milton, and Debbie.

It has not been an easy task, and there is still a lot more to be done.

You had to play the long game, budget, permits, personnel, revenue loss for many months, and still with a casino, it seems never ending.

But you push forward.

February of this year, it was rumored by a higher Coast Guard Auxiliary Office that our unit, Flotilla 716 in Gulfport, was going to be dispersed throughout Division 7.

Thanks to the city of Gulfport, that did not happen.

With you providing 716 with the community center for our meetings and our safe boating classes, as well as our installation of our 40-foot VHF radio facility at the Gulfport Marina that provides safety for on-the-water training, as well as providing safety coverage for the United States Coast Guard and Air Station Clearwater.

All of this gave the members of 716 the incentive to excel and make Flotilla 716 one of the most progressive flotillas in the entire division.

We are the smallest, but we have the accomplishments and credits higher than others, two to three times our membership.

I present to you the certificate of appreciation, along with the thanks from the United States Coast Guard and the United States Coast Guard Auxiliary.

And if you, Mayor Love, if you could please step forward.

Okay.

Mayor Love, we have witnessed firsthand your dedication, leadership, and resilience.

Your willingness, along with the city council, providing us with a building and critical resources, not just act as an act of support, it was a true act of partnership.

We present to you today, not just as a thank you, but as a token of our gratitude for ensuring us the necessary tools to keep serving this community, a challenge coin.

Challenge coins represents the gratitude of the United States Coast Guard and United States Coast Guard Auxiliary for ensuring us the tools we needed to serve this community.

I'd also like to thank all of the city officials and all departments that have been working overtime this past year, making a better golf port.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

I know what this means.

Yes.

What does it mean?

It's a huge honor, and that and I'm lucky enough this is the second one that I've received.

The other one was 20 years ago.

And I still have it on my dedicated service.

That's what it's for.

Yes.

Dedicated service.

Over and above.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

All right.

Well, that was a pleasant surprise.

Can you see your point?

Yeah.

Pass it along.

All righty.

So now, any additional public comment?

Yes, please.

Have you seen it?

Yes, I've got to see it.

Good evening.

I'm Christine Crosby.

I've lived in Gulfport 28 years on Baywood Point Drive.

And I'm coming tonight in hopes that I'm not going to make the fire department or the police department mad at me.

But every year around Christmas time when they do their rounds with their fire trucks and the alarms and the screaming noise that is made to celebrate Christmas is very disturbing.

I remember the first few years I came here, I was freaking out, went out to the sidewalk, afraid some terrible disaster had befallen Golfport.

Now, of course, I've learned what it is, and I celebrate the fact that the police and fire are joyous and want to do something.

But I'm asking, could we please consider music, jingle bells, anything that is more consistent with the season and not so hard on those of us who find police alarms and fire truck alarms so scary.

Thank you very much.

Alrighty, and who's next?

Yes, in the back.

I'm sorry, I don't know your name.

How would you?

It's my first visit here.

Brighty.

I'm not psychic, huh?

My name is Tom Hanley.

I've uh lived here in Gulfport for a decade now.

Uh I'd like to thank the city.

And I like to thank uh our representatives for, you know, I've lived a lot of different places, but I've never lived a place with so many different recreational options.

The recenter, a skate park, uh, basketball courts.

And I want to talk about in Tomlson Park, right over here, they have an exercise area, and you've redone the whole exercise area with all new exercise equipment and redone the the tarpaul over the top for the sun for us.

But when you changed out when the when the recreation department changed out the exercise equipment, they changed it in a way that there's not the same amount of weight lifting equipment that there used to be.

There used to be five different stations of weight lifting, and each of them had two different exercises.

So you could exercise two different people at the same time.

One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten.

Except the leg press machine had four stations.

So you could actually do 12 people at the same time.

And you lifted your own weight.

You sit on a seat, and so my wife and I would go on Friday morning, and I'd sit on the seat and I would lift my own weight, and then she'd sit on the seat in the same, we did no adjustments, no anything.

She just sit down and she'd lift her own weight.

And we do that every Friday, and I go three times a week.

Well, then there's now with the new equipment, there's only one exercise machine that's weightlifting.

Of all the there's really good equipment there.

I really am happy with it, but there's only one weight lifting thing.

And for old folks, it's important that we lift weights.

There's four things that you have to do cardio every day, you gotta do balance, you have to do stretching, and you have to lift weights.

And with the changes, there's just very few opportunities to lift weights now.

Uh, you can do pull-ups.

I'm not so good at those, but if if the recreation department and the city could consider maybe adding a couple of the weightlifting machines, the same kind that you used to have, we'd really appreciate that.

Thank you very much for your time.

All righty, thank you.

And who's next?

Yes.

I also don't know your name.

Julia Bull, nice to meet you.

I live at 1419, 59th Street, South in Gulfport.

And because it seems like democracy is under attack at the national level.

Citizens like myself look to local leadership to offer hope and stability.

Which is why I'm here tonight.

To ask the city council to consider its role in the preservation of one of our valued democratic institutions.

I'm asking the city to continue its advertising contract with the Gabber newspaper.

Whatever your feelings of news media or the gabber, a free and independent press is a cornerstone to a healthy democracy.

For Gulf Portians, that press is the Gabber newspaper, which has captured the foils, the follies, the foibbles, the achievements of its residents, its visitors, its businesses, and its leaders since 1968.

We've all disagreed on how various news outlets cover certain situations, a person or an event, but this does not diminish the crucial role of the press as it tests our tolerance.

It keeps leaders accountable.

And it speaks truth to power and informs the public of investigative findings.

That is democracy and action.

This town hosts the oldest independent newspaper in Florida.

At a local level, we should strengthen these democratic institutions, not weaken them.

The idea that the city is not renewing the advertising contract is not only concerning, it feels undemocratic.

Real or imagined, the optics of not renewing the GABA's contract from the vantage point of the citizens, such as myself, looks like retaliation due to unfavorable coverage.

All council members should understand that regardless of the motivations, the optics, the perception of many is that the council, by way of the city, supports this retaliation.

If it is not retaliation, one must ask why is the city willing to dismiss and disregard a local historical institution while other cities support their historical institutions.

Why is the city willing to withdraw support from an established stakeholder in this community when other cities support their stakeholders?

Why is the city willing to ignore the constituents who rely on the GABA for news updates, schedules, and city information when other cities use and support the local press to reach more of their constituents?

You can blame budget cuts, shifting priorities, but this will not change the broad perception that it is retaliation, mirroring actions occurring at the federal level to silence and delegitimize delegitimize the news media.

I urge every member of this council to be a leader and ask why the city is not renewing its contract.

And is that in the best interest of this town?

Thank you.

Thank you.

And who's next?

I'm going to close public comment.

All righty.

Ms.

Tober.

Good evening.

I haven't been here in a while.

I'm here to cause a little trouble.

Good trouble.

And I want to talk a minute about the guy to my right with the gray hair.

Oops, there's two of them.

Oh and furthest to the right.

This week, I believe it is.

Mr.

O'Reilly will celebrate 17 years as the city manager of the city.

Probably the longest serving city manager the city's head and the longest serving managed city manager in Panallis County, if I'm not mistaken.

Is that correct?

Good.

So I've known Jim a long, long time since he was a little kid.

He and my brother used to hang out together and um for the right price.

I've got lots of stories.

What I want to say is that for any of you that have lived here as long as I have, or even as long as Councilmember Shaw has, you know what shape the city was in when he took over, and you know what it looks like now.

Never mind.

He's got a great staff that does a tremendous job.

And so I just wanted to take a couple of minutes and thank him for all the work that he's done.

I can tell you that there is nobody in this city.

Not anybody sitting on the dais.

Not anybody sitting out there that cares about Gulfport more than he does.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Anyone else for public comment?

Seeing none, then I'm going to close public comment.

Thank you.

And that will take us to the city manager's report.

Thank you, Mayor.

Mayor, um, just to put that issue.

Um I have a meeting scheduled tomorrow with the GABA to work out some new details with we're not canceling our advertising.

We're just working through some new details in regards to what we're actually buying.

So I do have a um to one of the meetings tomorrow with one of the owners.

There was never any intent to to cancel our contract, not from I staff or I, but we're just trying to work through there.

But I want you to know that we are meeting with them tomorrow to resolve some of these issues.

Sure.

Um the other issue, Mayor, is the uh holiday parade parade that we had with police and fire.

Uh that was a pretty much a COVID activity.

That's what I thought.

I was confused by that statement.

It's kind of sunset itself.

Um, but that was more focused with last night we had our big tree lighting.

Um, and that was something we just did because it was to reassure the public during the time of during COVID.

We'll be, as I said, sunsetting that event this year.

Okay.

Is that it?

I'm trying to answer.

And we can we'll get a price on some extended additional exercise equipment.

I believe Mr.

Nichols is also scheduled.

And introduction with the sales rep and from the company, and that'll be in mid-December.

I appreciate that because I know what that resident said.

I've heard that quite a few times, that it's not a matter that the equipment that we got isn't good.

It's just that there's less of it and it's harder for multiple people to be working at the same time.

We'll get a price on that.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All righty.

And that is that it then?

Alrighty.

How about city attorney report?

Mayor counsel to update you a week ago yesterday.

The city clerk and I went down to St.

Petersburg to meet with the State Attorney's Office for the investigation on former council member O'Hara.

We're waiting to hear what their determination will be.

Obviously, if they're going to file charges, we will ask for restitution as being part of the charges.

If they choose not to file charges, then I will prepare a small claims case.

So we're just waiting to hear from them.

Do we have any ideas that uh a two-week, two-month, two-year process?

They said relatively couple weeks.

So we should hopefully know by next meeting or before next meeting.

Is that a question?

No.

Is it um if if they don't file charges, is our only recovery option small claims court, or is it still a criminal issue?

It will not be a criminal issue.

That's up to the state attorney's office to make the determination because the criminal actions are actually filed by the state attorney's office.

Um so even if a police, you know, if we arrest somebody, it's still ultimately up to the state attorney's office whether to charge the person and what to charge them with.

Okay.

Um so then I will let you know that.

The only other option we talked about would be, and I don't think it really applies anymore, would be the commission on ethics, and that's just a you know, at this point, I don't think would be small claims would be it.

So small claims would be the way to go.

And I'll keep you updated as soon as I hear.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um, City Clerk?

No report, Mayor.

All righty.

Then that'll take us to council comments and reports, and we will go in speaking order with uh councilmember Shaw kicking it off.

All right.

Well, first I need to celebrate our community, and unquestionably, our community sure knows knows how to celebrate Thanksgiving together.

Sumitris, Stellas, and Earth Origins sponsored an annual Thanksgiving feast at Summitra's, and Carl Ash also prepared cromelets, and it was all just sponsorship by them.

Uh following this was the huge annual Thanksgiving potluck on the beach that was filled with people, music and food.

Um then next day uh there was a Thanksgiving Leftovers block party on 56th Street South, and that was great too.

And then last night, continuing with the festivities and celebrations was our our wonderful lighted tree ceremony, our tree lighting ceremony, excuse me, and and and Santa's arrival, of course, and everyone was delighted of all ages, and it was so wonderful to see our community growing with so many children.

Yeah.

I'm choking up.

Um thank you to all who helped coordinate these events.

It's beautiful to see our community come together in so many special ways.

I'll get it together.

I did this last night too, so forgive me.

So now get ready for the community parade on December 13th at 2 p.m.

Yes.

And then the Boca Siega yacht club parade will also be on December 13th at 6 p.m.

So that will be an amazing day.

And each Friday night, um, the golf cart parade will be going through townshores, and I think end through downtown, maybe.

And uh in the meantime, Art Jones this weekend and a whole lot more.

So I'm sure everybody's calendar is filling up just like mine.

Uh this week, four of us on council will be attending the Florida League of Cities Legislative Conference in Orlando.

So if we don't respond as quickly as we usually do, please bear with us.

We will respond as soon as possible.

Um I attended the live Tampa Live Tampa Bay meeting uh which talked about the impact of Senate Bill 954, and I also shared that information with the city manager.

Uh that has uh a deadline if that's adopted, you have to take action within 60 days.

So that's why it was important to be aware of that.

I was also able to watch much of the legislative select committee on property taxes.

And if if if you aren't aware of that, please start paying attention.

All eight bills were favorably passed to go further.

That does not mean they're adopted yet, of course.

Everyone is encouraged to learn how our city will be impacted with any changes in our property taxes.

This is a really important topic to us all.

As to the GABA, I I I want to make clear something, and please understand this.

I'm aware that many people like the GATTA.

And I'm not stating any personal opinions here.

I'm just stating the scenario.

But I've also heard from many residents that feel otherwise.

Additionally, other residents have shared that the contract should be modified, with some expressing that the funds saved should be utilized for the senior center renovations and improvements.

Again, I'm not expressing my personal opinion, so please understand I'm only suggesting what has been suggested is a compromise in a review of the current contract contract to respond to the varied perspective perspectives of our residents.

So I just wanted to make clear that's why it's being discussed at all, and it was never to at least to my understanding that any of us ever suggested that it should be canceled.

Moving on, uh we were so very sorry to hear about the hit-and-run vehicle that hit the couple on e-bikes on Gulfport Boulevard uh last week, and I and so many others are expressing our concern and hope for a complete recovery.

So if you if if you believe in prayer and positive energy, please extend that to them and their family.

Um so I do have some questions that are being asked, and that is uh the status of the recovery for the beach, the casino, the docks, the marine and the homes.

Um, you know, obviously people know things are going on, but they don't really know what's going on, so they ask.

Um, some folks are asking for um the marine officer update regarding the boats in the bay that are on uh uh mooring balls, and then also finally is Gulfport enacting any water conservation rules due to the low rainfall as St.

Petersburg is.

So those are the the questions I've received as of late.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for bringing up December 13th.

It is a huge day for us, and uh Fusion 49th is also going to be put on their second event in Trowley Square.

It's a seafood boil from 12 to 6.

So there's plenty to do that day.

Very, very nice.

Um, Mr.

Hanley, you are number one on my list as soon as I got the date to go down there and be um dazzled by the manufacturer and also understand what it is we're missing.

So thank you for joining us today, and thank you for your email.

I appreciate it.

Um Jim, happy anniversary.

I did not know.

Thank you, Margaret.

I appreciate that.

And that's it.

Thank you.

So I was also going to bring up the drought and the county, I believe it is, has made it so that you can only water two days a week, depending on if you're even or odd.

So people should be aware of that.

That um you can water from before 10 in the morning or after four in the afternoon on the days, depending on if you're an even or odd number.

So there is that official.

I don't know if we're going to do anything stronger than that.

We'll wait for the um Swift Motor usually put SwiftMud usually puts that out or Tampa Bay water, and then we'll follow those guidelines.

Yeah, and I think that's what yeah.

I would follow Tampa Bay water because that's who we're buying our water from, and they'll they'll probably be more restrictive.

Um hand watering is okay, by the way.

Um so one thing that I I haven't noticed that we've started the remote public comment.

What's going on with that?

We had training last week.

Okay, so it should be launched this month.

So how are we announcing it to people?

Uh we'll be putting a well, we'll be doing a soft launch first to make sure that everything that all the bugs are worked out, but then we'll do a uh e-blast to all of the the I'll put it on my website, we'll get it out to as many people as possible.

Okay, good, thank you.

And the other things I have are for new business, so all right.

So because Margaret brought up uh Jim's anniversary, I was not aware of that either.

But one of the things that I was aware of that we should all be really proud of is that following um the the storms of 2024, there was much turmoil in many cities, including ours.

But the difference is is that we're one of the only cities that did not have a turnover in their city uh manager.

Um some cities have had multiple have had multiple turnovers in the last few months in the last year and a half, you know.

So um that that says a lot in my opinion, so we're really happy that um uh we were able to keep a team going and moving forward in um with Jim's leadership.

So that was one thing in terms of the parade, Christine.

I agree with you totally.

I really dislike that parade.

Everybody would go into a panic, but this year we're kicking off a new tradition, which is a daytime parade where kids can actually see Santa, not just headlights.

It's not all about noise, it's gonna be about music.

Um we're trying to get two bands.

I don't know that we'll do it.

Rather than fight with the um uh golf carts, we've invited them to join our parade, and rather to that's the same day as Santa Rampagers, which if you've been in golf port a while, you know we can get hundreds of Santa Rampagers.

We have invited them to join our parade.

So it's gonna be a big day, and the rampagers will be in the back and they'll be leading Santa down the street.

So it should be a really, really fun event uh that I'm looking forward to.

Um I was uh a bit dumbfounded because I did not know that we had canceled the contract with the GABR at all.

So that was uh No, I know we haven't, but that's what I heard tonight, and I'm like, wait, what?

I've not heard this, so that was interesting how rumors get going.

And drought rules you already covered.

So that was in response to the comments.

And then um what I wanted to address was if you haven't been downtown and you're not watching, the intersection of 54th and shore is really moving along.

I mean, they are ahead of schedule, they're really doing a good job, and they are so precise.

If you go down there and there's eight guys on the wet on the job site, all eight of them are working.

It's not a matter that three are working and the others are standing around watching.

They're very coordinated.

Um, I love watching these guys work.

Um, so I wanted to make mention of that.

Um, and of course, as soon as we get that done, then that's kind of a big deal because then that will provide the water and the electricity to our peer, and we'll be able to take and move one of our fish cleaning stations to the end of the pier so that maybe they'll quit using our um benches to cut up fish guts and they'll use the cleaning station instead, and we could sit on the benches.

Um I'm happy about that.

Um also uh blue bike racks.

Uh when we did our bike uh and Steve's here, uh and he helped with this um uh survey that we did, and we found out we had red, green, and and blue bike racks in every different size, shape, and form.

And we're not gonna change the size shape and form, but we are in the process now of they're all gonna be golf port blue.

We want them to jump out.

We want people to see them and go, oh, I just gotta look for the blue, and I'll be able to find it.

So most of those have been repainted, and then we're in the process.

The next phase will be taking some of them that are not user and kind of silly uh locations and moving them into locations where they're needed, and then the third phase will be adding some additional ones to the waterfront area.

So we are making progress on that.

Um and then along the lines of what um council member Shaw said, I just wanted to make mention of helmets.

Um wearing bike helmets is so important, you know.

Uh at any age, you can take a spill and walk away, or you can w take a spill and break a limb.

But if you hit your head, you know, you you could be in bed for the rest of your life.

And so I'm just making a plea that everybody.

It doesn't matter if you're just running down to the store.

Remember how they taught us to wear seatbelts.

It didn't matter if we were only going a mile, most accidents happen within a mile.

It's the same thing with the um the helmets.

It's so important that we wear our helmets every time we get on any kind of uh moving vehicle like that.

And that's all I have for um public comment tonight for myself.

And so that will take us on to consent, please.

Excuse me, consider approval of meeting minutes from meeting held November 18th, 2025.

And item 6B resolution number 2025-100, a resolution authorizing the city manager to expend funds for annual audit services with Forvis Mazars LLP, formally MSLPA.

Motion to approve.

Second.

All those in favor?

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Opposed.

Passes unanimously.

All right.

And that'll take us to ordinance 7A.

Item 7A, ordinance number 2025-12, second reading and public hearing.

An ordinance of the City Council of the City of Gulfport, Florida, submitting the following proposed amendments to the city charter to the electors of the city for approval.

An amendment to Section 103, extraterritorial powers, an amendment to Section 302 terms.

An amendment to Section 305 prohibitions, an amendment to Section 306, vacancies, establishing forfeiture of office, establishing Section 306.1 removal from office, an amendment to Section 314, Charter Amendment, and providing for an effective date.

Motion to approve?

Second.

Mayor, Council, I'll just briefly go through everything to make sure you uh know what we're doing and make sure everybody's comfortable with that.

Um section 103, we talked about uh obviously changing the lease of real property um for a period of not to exceed five years from 30 years, and then that the uh lease will be at a fair market value and how that determination will be.

There was a second paragraph down towards the bottom, which talked about upon approval of the referendum by the city's electorate, um, the grantee is responsible for for recording the updated deed, and that if it's not recorded within 30 days, it will revert back to the city.

That will be done by an ordinance change instead of the charter.

Then we go to section 302 terms.

Um this has got the most changes from your initial discussion on this.

So what we did here is after the discussion that we had, um, let me read it read to you how the language says.

Both the mayor and council members shall be elected for a three-year term and shall be limited to three consecutive terms.

Any member of council who has reached the maximum term of their ward seat must be out of office for a minimum of two years prior to the time of qualifying for subsequent election to their prior office.

Uh council member or mayor who has served three consecutive terms is barred from running for the same office.

Um exception will only be permitted in the event there are no qualified candidates for specific council ward office or for mayor.

I believe this is the language that reflects the vice mayor had brought up to make sure that uh we clarified one issue.

We made that change.

Um so I believe this reflects what you had decided ultimately in this section.

I didn't know if there was any questions on that.

We then go to 305 prohibitions.

We remove the language that didn't make any sense.

Uh any council member um violating the provisions section shall be guilty of a second degree misdemeanor.

As we talked about, the only one that can determine that is the State Attorney's Office, and ultimately either someone pleading to that or a judge doing that.

Um so that's the only change to that section.

We then go to 306 vacancies.

Um filling of vacancies, and was the language before what we've done here is added the term forfeiture of office.

We remove the vacancy provision in its entirety, and we wrote the office of a member of city council shall become vacant upon death resignation, removal from office in any manner authorized by law or forfeiture of his or her office.

And then we define what forfeiture is in those terms.

That's all we've put in there.

Um the other sections that we talked about, the filling of vacancies, we're going to adopt as you're under your policies of procedures.

Assuming you pass this, we'll prepare the policies and procedures for that.

Um, so that will not be convoluted in the charter.

We then go to removal of office under 306.1, which is a new section.

A council member may be removed from office by the city council for violations of the city charter or city council adopted rules.

If said violation by the affected council member is found after an independent hearing to be intentional, willful, flagrant, or continuous.

We then have taken the uh public hearing provision that we originally had in there, and we're going to adopt that in your policies and procedures.

That will allow you in case you need to make any changes when we get the special magistrate, how you do all those things will be in there.

So if there is a concern or there's something that occurs that we're not planning on, we can make that change real easily and and deal with that.

Um just to remind you some of the other things, Section 309 uh ordinance and resolutions, the change in that will be done by ordinance.

It's very short.

It's just saying um we're gonna take away the publication in book form and put it according to state statute.

Um so that'll take care of that under uh section 402, uh dealing with the uh qualifications of the city manager, whether they have to live in town or not, you're gonna do that contractually uh with the city manager and whoever is in that position, so you can deal with it at that time.

And then as uh as the vice mayor pointed out, section 501, um which dealt with the general election, just taking out uh determined by the council as opposed to the second Tuesday of March, uh, which is required, we will make that change by ordinance.

Those are the changes that the final versions of what you discussed.

Um, and that is what is before you.

If you approve these changes, we will draft the language for the question to be uh at the next election.

And we would see the the actual question prior to the ballot.

You will see the questions, yes.

Okay.

All right.

Any questions in speaking order?

Um yes.

Um I'm not sure that they're major, but um it seems to me in the previous language, it talked about um this one says the city reserves the right to obtain a second appraisal, paid for and chosen by the city.

Previously it said it say less or less earlier.

Uh we've had that language by the city for uh uh at least a couple versions.

I think I took out less or and just made it clear to make it by the city.

Okay.

All right.

Um then under 302, the exception was except for running for mayor, then when we when we talked about it before.

And now it's either for the same office.

So you're talking about the exception permitted in the event there is no qualified candidates?

Um the last sentence?

Yes.

Um, no.

Oh no, okay.

Um they uh it it says for the you mean for the same office.

Yeah.

So what what the concern was before, and matter of fact, I had even brought it up that you know, if if a council member wants to move, you know, run for mayor, that seems like a natural progression.

Yes.

But is is it a concern that if uh a mayor has now filled out their term and now they want to run for council, is it gonna be a back and forth thing?

They could they could do it the way it's written.

So what we could run for a different ward if you move.

Right.

You could do it.

I mean, the whole idea, at least I the way I understood it, is we were making sure there's term limits of three consecutive terms.

And then um, however, should you decide to run for mayor, then you could run for mayor, or decide to run if the mayor wanted to step down and run for council to stay on the board, they had that option.

I mean, some of it was I think the issue arose that well, what if the whole council changes, but you have somebody that wants to be, like say the mayor wants to be stay on so that there is some you know stability and knowledge and those kind of things that they would still have that option.

Oh, okay.

Um I just remembered that we were just talking about the project.

Right.

I I think that's ultimately how I got it.

Of course, if you wanted to remove that, we could remove it.

Um, but uh it was really that was the thought process, I believe.

Well, I I would defer to the council for that, and of course, uh let's see, the um I think you answered my other questions.

Other than I do want to make sure that when it comes to the hearing, that we're very clear that it's a special magistrate.

Yes, I have the language that we had before.

We're just gonna put that in your policies and procedures.

Okay.

And you'll have the ability, obviously, council member, to change that or edit it, whatever you want, because they're your policies and procedures.

Okay.

All right.

Well, you you've answered the rest of my question, so thank you.

Very good.

Um the document that we were given, section 314 about the charter amendment.

That's a change, right?

From the 10 to 5.

That was uh, yes, that's what one that you discussed.

Um, but um that is yeah, I'm sorry, I didn't bring that up.

No, that's okay.

I just wanted to double check.

Okay, thank you.

I skipped that.

Okay.

That's a citizens committee appointed by council going from charter amendment review, complete charter remember uh charter review every five years instead of ten years.

Yes, I'm sorry.

I've that's okay.

Thank you.

I'm good.

Shockingly, no questions.

Advice mayor, I appreciate your contacting me so we could make those changes timely.

Thank you.

Yeah, I have no questions on this anymore either.

And and I really like the entire process from appointing the review committee um to listening to them to us hashing it out.

Um I did a take two on Tuesday on this today.

Um, just explaining the process that we went through to get to tonight.

So that's great.

There's a lot of work put in, and again, we appreciate the the committee doing everything they did such great legwork.

Okay.

So let's see.

Uh so we will take a vote after public comment.

All righty.

Any public comment on this?

Show of hands, Lenny.

Good evening, uh, Money Guggenheimer uh Avenue.

Um, thank you for all the work that you're doing to this, it's really important.

There's there's a couple of typos or grammatical things that you might want to look at.

In section 302, you say both the mayor and council shall be elected for three-year term.

Um but both implies two things.

There's more than the mayor and one city council.

The that term, the word both really does not need to be there.

And the other is a sentence, a council member or a mayor who has served severed three consecutive terms is barred from running.

I saw it's a typo.

I think you might mean served and not severed.

It sounds like a horror movie.

Thank you.

Yeah, thank you, Lenny.

So do you want that change?

Okay, who else for public comment?

Yes.

I just want to echo with the comments that were made a minute ago about how great a job that committee did.

Joe Gunther and his people, I don't know how many people are on there, five people or whatever.

I mean, they did a tremendous job.

Um I recall that 20 years ago, maybe even 30 years ago, there were supposed to be charter reviews, and I don't ever remember one being done that comprehensively with that much detail and that much attention paid to it.

So thank you to all those people.

Thank you.

Uh anybody else before I close public comment on this?

Seeing none.

Call the vote, please.

Councilmember Shaw?

Yes.

Councilmember Early?

Yes.

Vice Mayor Thanos?

Yes.

Mayor Love?

Yes.

Passes unanimously.

Thank you.

And that will take us to resolution eight A.

Item 8A, resolution number 2025-101.

A resolution authorizing the city manager to approve the payout of the Gulfport Lions Club Incorporated lease as set forth in paragraph five of the lease agreement upon subsequent termination or non-renewal.

Motion to approve.

I second.

Mayor.

City manager.

Mayor, the Gulf Alliance Club, as provided for within their lease agreement with the city for the building, um, has notified the city that they would be no longer occupying uh be our tenant effect of the end of this lease period, which I believe is December 5th of 2025.

Um subsequently, within that lease agreement, there is a buyout provision for their improvements.

They did build the building and expand it.

They built it originally.

And that's where it is the amount to be paid based on the appraisal that we received is $264,246.

I'm curious, what year did they build that?

They built it and originally started in 1965 and expanded it in 1971.

All righty.

We'll go in speaking order then.

Um I I just maybe have a couple questions just so I understand the process.

Um yesterday afternoon, I had requested a copy of the previous appraisal, and and I was wondering why we did one first question, why we did one last year, and then of course now I know why we did one this year because they're not renewing.

They had expressed their intent, and I wanted to know what it would be.

Okay.

Um and then what what do you think the explanation is for the disparity in the valuation now compared to then?

I believe that is the cost of materials and the re construction cost, replacement cost.

Okay, so if it's actual cash value, that still plays a part.

That's correct.

The appraisal provides for that.

And and is there any kind of issue that according to what I read that we were supposed to use an MI MAI appraiser?

But we have a state certified appraiser.

Right, and that one's acceptable.

That's not appropriate.

Yes.

Okay, good.

Just want to make sure that everything's uh not that I didn't trust, it's just I want to be clear in my own mind.

That's fine.

And um, and then the previous one that was done last year was replacement cost, but this one's actual cash value.

No, they were both actual cash value.

Okay.

Well, possibly I misread, so I'll go back and look at that.

It's the same it was a very same appraisal.

Okay.

All right.

Well, that's those are the only questions I had.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I have no questions.

Okay.

Councilman.

As you know, I have lots of questions.

First of all, the lease calls for an MIA, which is different from a certified inspector.

It's a very different thing.

And usually when they do an appraisal, when an MIA appraiser does it, they would give you what the appraised value if you were going to lease the property or rent it, the actual cash value and the market value.

This only did the actual cash value, and our lease requires a market value, not actual cash value.

And according to the MIA MIA M I whatever.

The inspector, the MIA appraiser that I spoke with, um, the life span for a a build, a commercial building built in those years is 60 years, or 55 years, I'm sorry.

And so this building has basically reached its lifespan.

It should be 100 percent depreciated.

And in this thing, they they said it costs 100 870,000 to build it new now, and then presuming that isn't elevating it, but just building it on the ground, and they used a 60 percent depreciation, and I have no idea where that figure came from or why they chose that.

And if you take 60 percent, if it if it's 61 percent depreciated, then we should be paying 39 percent of 870,000, which is like 335, and we would pay half of that, but they come up with 538.

So these numbers absolutely do not make sense.

And another place in the thing they talked about 14 percent depreciation, and from what he said, even on other shoreline properties, even where there was a hotel or something on it, if it was this age of building, basically they're tearing it down, which we plan to do too, which expresses that we don't think this building has any value at all, and therefore we should be paying nothing for this.

They've had this land at a dollar a year, I think, or a month, whatever it was, for many, many years.

They've gotten full use of this building.

They didn't repair it after the hurricane.

The inspector said he saw no damage, and yet it needs a new roof, and they didn't do any repairs from the hurricane.

So, how could there be no damage?

That's unclear.

Did you say the inspector said there was no damage or the appraiser?

Oh, the appraiser, I'm sorry, the appraiser said there was no damage in the report, and that it was in good condition.

Well, if it's in good condition, why is the next item us tearing it down?

So I think this is totally inappropriate.

I think that we're cheating our residents out of over 250,000, and that we should do an uh an a proper appraiser with an MIA appraiser for market value.

That's what the lease specifies, and I think we'd find out that it has virtually no value, the building.

And you know, we could choose to maybe give them five or ten thousand dollars, but that would be just being generous.

This is really, in my opinion, a ripoff of our tax money.

Is that it?

Yeah, well, that's it.

I think that's pretty clear.

I'd say so.

Um my background is the real estate business, and I'm familiar with appraisers, but not uh appraisals, excuse me, but not um so much with commercials.

So I don't know the difference between a MAI and a state approved appraiser.

Um because the appraisals were consistent between the first one and the second one that you requested.

Yeah, but I didn't I just requested another appraisal.

I didn't uh ask for a cash value one.

Okay.

And and the lease requires a market value one.

Okay.

And we did a cash value one.

All right.

So I'm I'm not, as I was saying, because the two were so consistent, uh, and you know, I during that time period that made sense that there would be a change.

Um I don't know the difference between a MAI and a state appro approved appraiser.

We we utilized a company that was state certified.

Okay.

Have we ever been in this position before where we were buying out?

And or maybe I maybe I don't want to phrase it that way.

Have we ever been in a position before where we were making a decision based on an appraisal and we used a state approved appraisal?

Yes, we had to do the recreation center.

We had to do the casino.

We had to have separate appraisals for those because of the parcels that they were address a part of and uh did we use the same firm as this particular was the actual appraiser the same person?

That I couldn't tell you.

Okay.

It's a big firm.

The same firm.

Yes.

Okay.

And um as the city manager with the other appraisers, were you uh surprised by the the uh final appraisal, or was it what you were anticipating?

I was fairly anticipated, especially the casino was the most issue because of the casino and the recreation center being on the same properties, so to speak.

And I was comfortable with it.

And so was FEMA with those issues.

Okay.

I don't have any other questions.

Public comment.

Stephen Jonathan.

I said Steve and I meant Jonathan.

Okay, Jonathan McCoachy.

Um just as a innocent by Sandor.

Um I've noticed some gigantic discrepancy when it was mentioned that the lease specified that the valuation would have to be a uh market valuation, and that this appraisal was the actual cash value.

And that in an earlier time in a pre-flood time, like before NOAA that kind of maybe made some sense where the two might be sort of close and you know you could average them or something.

There would be a yawning gap right now.

Um actual cash value might be a negative number right now for that building.

So um I would uh ask the attorney to look at that lease and it's a yes or no.

And um, I would think if it's uh if it says uh market value, then you get another appraisal.

Would be a simple way to look at that.

Um if you'll allow me, I just looked up what an MIA appraisal is.

And MIA Jonathan Okay, thank you.

An MA MAI appraisal is a real estate valuation conducted by a professional who is earned the MAI, and which means member appraisal institute designation from the appraisal institute.

This designation signifies a high level of expertise and requires advanced education, rigorous exams, extensive experience, at least 4500 hours, and adherence to strict ethical standards for the appraisal of various property types, including commercial, industrial, and residential.

Okay.

I'm gonna proceed with public comment then.

Anyone else for public comment on this?

Courtney.

My name is Courtney Prokoppus, but I am not speaking as Courtney Prokopis.

I'm speaking as Lauren Stern, who is currently stuck on a plane due to due to an ice storm.

She is expressing dismay at not having the ability to make a remote public comment, despite being told that that would be happening in December.

We are now in December and having asked for something of this nature to be implemented for well over six months now.

Again, uh she writes, my understanding is that they are getting half the fair market value of the building upon exiting the lease.

Why was this in the lease in the first place?

Who is responsible?

When I rent my house, I am not entitled to this cash out when I move out.

Furthermore, the building was significantly damaged, and in your next item you are approving 40,000 to demolish it.

Is it not worth zero?

Why are they not being cashed out at zero?

I find this questionable and strange.

I would love an explanation on these lease terms and lease cash out.

Also, that's it.

Why hasn't remote public comment been implemented?

Thank you so much.

Again, that was from Lauren Stern, Ward 4.

Thank you.

Anyone else for public comment on this?

Okay, seeing none, I'm going to close that.

So city attorney.

A couple issues have been raised.

I mean, uh none of us were on council when this lease was signed, and um, so it's hard for us to address um why the lease was written the way it was written to say the least.

Uh my question is, what are the repercussions if we table this today until we um you know I'm just wondering.

I understand that they have decided to not renew the lease, and I believe that we are totally okay with that.

And I do not want to not be in compliance with a lease that the city signed.

I want to follow along with that.

But if there's some question about the fact that maybe we didn't follow the rules exactly by not using the right kind of appraiser.

Um so I'm wondering if we can table it and and what would be the repercussions if we didn't do this tonight because the lease is up in three days.

I'm not I unless I'm wrong.

It doesn't have a specific time period.

Um it requires you to pay them within 90 days.

90 days, right.

90 days of said termination.

So you have 90 days.

So we have time to do a proper MIA appraisal at market value.

M A I.

I I wrote it wrong on my notes.

So an MAI with the market value.

Yeah.

And that's what the lease says.

That's what the terms of the lease says.

MAI selected by the city and uh for the market value.

So I feel like um in and I'm just speaking not for you, but to y'all.

I do feel that that if this is somewhat contentious at this point, and that there could be a variance.

Um I think that we would be setting a dangerous precedent to not follow the rules that were spelled out in the lease.

You have plenty of time to do it.

Um it's an issue that's arisen.

I mean, I actually heard that that the issue arose today.

Um so I I think tabling it is appropriate.

All right.

Um then where are we right now?

We don't take a vote.

Do we make another motion?

Somebody would make a motion to table.

If there's a second, there's no discussion.

We just take a vote.

I make a motion to table it.

A second.

We just call the rule.

Councilmember Shaw?

Yes.

Councilmember Early?

Yes.

Vice Mayor Thanos?

Yes.

Mayor Love.

Yes.

We will go ahead, Mayor, and get a new appraisal.

If that's what council wants, and understand that'll be the number then, whatever we use.

And also we'll get an MAID MAI with the market value.

With the market value.

And that therefore there's no need to take action on the second item.

Yeah, plus I was gonna say, because we're having a workshop in January on the marina, we might not want to demolish the whole building or whatever.

So my recommendation is if when you buy this for whatever price you pay, your rep my recommendation will remain to demolish the building.

We would keep the we would keep the sewers in water lines.

That's it.

The building would go away.

Okay.

Right.

Yes.

So then the second item is automatically uh tabled, Mayor.

Okay.

Thank you.

All right.

So um that took care, then what I hear us saying is that um 8A and 8B are both tabled at this point.

Okay, thank you.

Moving on to 8C.

Resolution number 2025-103, a resolution authorizing the city manager to enter into a contract with Ashfalt Paving Systems Incorporated for yearly roadway milling and resurfacing.

Motion to approve.

Second mayor, I'd like to invite Kendrick Sanderson, Assistant Public Works Director to give you a short presentation.

Thank you.

Good evening, Council.

Good evening, good Thanksgiving.

Yes.

Escape right there.

Okay.

I was limited to one map this meeting, so here's one overview.

Um, this is part of our annual paving for this year.

Uh we identified um a 1.4 miles of road based off our pavement condition index that we did in 2023.

What we tried to do is ensure that we were sharing the love throughout the city as far as what roads we were doing.

We didn't want to make sure we focused just on one ward.

There were obviously roads identified in each section of the city that needed to be taken care of.

So we have some in marina.

Actually, what I'll do is just go down the list so everyone in the audience can hear what we're planning on doing this year.

On 60th Street between 9th Avenue and 17th Avenue, we'll be resurfacing.

27th Avenue between 58th Street and 59th Street.

Tangerine Avenue between 58th and 57th, 57th Street between Tangerine and 20th, 18th Ave between 51st and 49th, 47th Street between 27th and 29th, Tifton between 27th and 29th, 27th Ave between 46th and 44th.

And we also will be microsurfacing the senior center parking lot in the Catherine Hickman parking lot.

Any questions?

Just out of curiosity, also when are you doing my block on 27th?

Oh, yeah.

Good very good question.

So if this is approved, we did talk to the contractor.

They do anticipate getting this done before Christmas.

If this is tonight, that's what we're being told.

So I will be if it but once again if this is approved, I will be contacting the contractor first thing in the morning, setting up a time to make sure that they can try to meet that deadline.

If not, the latest beginning of January.

Okay.

Did you have any?

I think that was a great question because obviously people will be concerned about road work on the road during the holiday.

Yes, so we would make sure that they don't have any construction done during that week of Christmas.

They need to be done before that week of Christmas.

So and I noted that noted that it's a state piggyback.

So yes.

And we actually did get a con um forgive me, we did get a quote from another vendor, Ajax, who the county uses and St.

Pete uses, they were about three, four hundred thousand dollars higher.

So we we went ahead and just continue.

Oh, thank you for sharing that.

Good.

I I don't have any other questions.

Any questions, council questions?

Thank you.

No.

So I do have a question.

My street has been resurfaced.

I've been there 13 years at least twice.

Yes.

Because it particularly has problems because it floods a lot.

Um, is there anything for and I'm sure it's not just my street, probably the marina and other places as well.

Is there anything that we can do so that it lasts longer for streets that that habitually flood?

Yes, so the mill and overlay, as you guys know, it's just a rehabilitation.

It's just pretty much just kind of re uh uh prolonging the lifetime of the road.

If we were gonna do something that makes the road last longer, we would actually have to do a full death reclamation, put all new sub-base in.

Uh obviously have to make sure that the water levels uh as far as where you're at, right?

There is uh well, how do you say uh the groundwater yes high water table there?

Same thing with the marina.

If you notice along uh 46 and Miriam, all that high uh tie that comes in just sits on the road and just deteriorates it and it just makes it same thing with 27.

So we would have to identify what material will work underneath that roadway.

If it's using something more permeable, if it's it it's something that this right here won't solve, it's just gonna prolong the road for another year road, for example, might be five to ten years.

It just it's uh just until we get a more solid solution, especially after the stone water master plan, and hopefully we'll have something figured out by then.

And do they do anything about um helping with the slope of the road?

Yes.

So yes, so with this inch and a half that we do install, it is gonna establish the crown again, so help the water from standing on the roadway as and that's one of the issues we do receive calls on.

It's like, well, the water is now going to my property.

Well, it was never supposed to be in the middle of the road.

Right.

It's just over years, you know, garbage trucks and trucks just go through and flatten out the crown.

We're now re-establishing that crown, and it's gonna help go as go across where it's supposed to go.

There usually is a two and a half percent slope required by the state, and that's where we try to make sure that we we keep those those grades.

And and I would suggest that we start looking at even when we're just repaving like this.

If if there's something new anywhere, you know, because I know people are doing innovative things, other places.

I've talked about using lighter color pavements and stuff like that to make it less hot.

Yep.

Uh if there's things that we could do, especially in places that where the water stands so much, and it to prevent us having to do it over and over and over, that would make it last longer and be more effective.

Yes, so uh it was brought up last year about uh Solar Guard, a uh lighter cover uh color payment for the roadways.

We did do some research, and I am part of the APWA on the board, and we talked to several other um uh the communities locally, and they haven't done any of that in Florida yet.

Arizona and California has done pilot programs for the Solar Guard as far as reflective roads, they're still in the adolescent stage, so the data hasn't come back as far as how effective it is.

You do obviously have a lot of factors in play.

If you're gonna be doing utility cuts, how's that gonna work?

You're gonna have to come back and reservice the road.

Is it gonna hold up a garbage trucks and larger vehicles?

So there's a lot of options out there.

Are we gonna have to restrict what vehicles can go on there for structure?

Because now it's not as strong as asphalt.

So there's plenty of options out there, but there's things to consider before we go that route.

Well, thank you for researching it all.

Absolutely, yes.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any other questions?

Um, I would just say I really appreciate the map and the fact that you did spread the wealth around because um that's one thing that um and I also have the schedule from last year and now this year, very helpful because I do hear from residents who say yes, nothing ever happens in my neighborhood.

You know, it only happens downtown, that's the only place.

So this is really good to be able to go, well, let me just walk you through last year and this year, and then they go, Oh, I didn't realize.

So having that, you know, and even knowing in advance what you know the next year might bring.

Uh not now, but you know, when we get there, I find that real helpful.

Yes, absolutely.

We do have a map every year when we do pave, we update it.

So we can show over the last eight years what we've done in the city.

So very good.

Thank you so much.

All right.

Okay.

Uh, do we have any public comment on this?

Seeing none.

Councilmember Shaw?

Yes.

Councilmember Early?

Yes.

Vice Mayor Thanos?

Yes.

Mayor Love?

Yes.

Carries to passage.

That's our last resolution.

Okay.

And that takes us to discussion, and we do not have a discussion item tonight.

And so that will take us on to new business, and we will go in speaking order for new business.

Well, I've only had one new suggestion from residents, and that is that might we consider because we're proud that Stetson College of Law is here in Gulfport that maybe we put a sign where our Tree City USA sign is saying home of Stefan College of Law.

So that was the one suggestion I received.

Okay.

Nice.

Thank you.

Anything else?

That's all.

All righty.

I'm in the airport a lot, as you know, and there's a wonderful sign right next to the tram about Stetson and being in Gulfport and everything.

It's really nice.

So I can see how that would be nice.

Yeah.

Um, I don't have anything I was going to talk about, the playground, but we're also out.

Okay.

So I had a couple things.

Um when I got my roof on, I had to put hurricane straps on it because I was part of my state Florida homes.

But the city, and I guess the state didn't require hurricane straps.

So, and then I was told a few years later that I thought we did require hurricane straps.

It turns out that's only on new builds.

I think I would like us to look at making hurricane straps or clips required for older homes as well.

Because people putting on new roofs without straps, it costs very little extra.

And it makes all the difference in your roof blowing away.

And so for that difference in price, I I would say, and very often the roofing companies don't mention it unless you bring it up.

And when I asked my roofing company why they didn't do that, they said, well, everybody knows, and you know, the insurance company probably tells them it's like, no, they don't.

And so I I would like us to look at doing that because I think that would be safer.

And I don't know if that would be uh part of making things more restrictive in building.

I would think so, but it's something it would be the building code, and we'd have to see how we would.

Okay, but if we could look into that, because I think it's very little money.

I doubt if anybody would complain about it, and it would make all of the houses safer.

No, I understand.

Our big issue would be how it's impacted to start with by Senate Bill 180, because it's a development regulation.

So is that impacted?

The attorney and I'll have to discuss that.

Well, if we could look at that.

And then another thing, when we had our stormwater study, he mentioned about right now we have in our um c codes, regulations, whatever, that we have to keep 20% green.

And we've already taken out pavers and stuff like that from Green Green, that it has to be 100% pervious.

And one of the things they recommended was upping that to say 25, and some places have up to 40 percent, but that would probably be a problem.

But if we would want to look at upping that to 25 or maybe even 30 percent pervious.

And I would tell you that would definitely trigger Senate Bill 180.

But it's not about building.

It is, it's about the development of the property.

But you still it's a land chapter 22.

No, I know, but but we still say you you can't build more than 40 percent of the lot.

So we're only talking about the 60 percent that isn't built on.

It's we could look at the same thing.

So it's just whether you can put whether you can put cement or whether you can put grass or whatever.

We'll we'll look into it for the colour.

Yeah, can you and the other one that goes along with all of those is I noticed because it when they built some house, I think it was on tangerine.

Those of you who know Jill and Molly, it was right next door to them.

And the people put two houses and they put those long, very bright lights instead of just um a porch light.

And when you drive down the street, this nice quiet dark-ish street all of a sudden has this bright glowing houses in the middle of it.

And I've noticed several of the other new houses having that.

And I would like us to restrict that and not allow those and making people have just normal porch lights.

Because another thing from one of the um seminars I went to, they were talking about dark skies and how important that that can be.

And having these huge bright lights, it made them have to get blackout curtains for their whole house because it was so bright and they kept them on late.

And it would be very annoying, and especially with all the new houses getting built, that could be highly annoying.

Um, leave off the pervious driveways for the moment, because that would be well, I don't know, that's maybe another thing they could look at.

Because another thing with the stormwater study, they mentioned keeping more surfaces pervious.

So if we restricted cement driveways, for instance, because especially we've gone from single car driveways to sometimes triple driveways, that's paving a whole lot more property, and it's not counted in the 40 percent of the building.

It's it's more in the how much of the lot is pervious.

So you could have 40 percent of your house, the lot be housed.

You could have another 20 or 30 percent be paved, and you know, um anyway, so that's just something I don't know if you want to look at as well if that would be part of the 180 thing.

Because it could still have a driveway, they would just have to make sure it's more pervious, and we could determine whether that's pervious pavers or just gravel or shells or whatever.

So those were my things based on our stormwater study.

And because my neighbor was getting a new roof, and I asked him if about the hurricane straps, and he didn't know what I was talking about, and I thought, okay, so clearly the roofers aren't telling people again.

So I think that would make houses much safer.

That's it.

If I might mention that that would also save homeowners on their own.

And their insurance, yeah, it saves on insurance.

Okay.

So um I was gonna just touch base a little on the watershed, but I would like to respond um to what you said.

I also would like to see us increase our 20 percent.

Okay, not all the way to 30, but I would like to see an increase in there.

I also have great concerns about light pollution, which is the term I'm using, and I think that um as we're gonna start building more and more two-story homes.

And I think that um as we're gonna start building more and more two-story homes, I have great concern about motion lights up at the second story.

Uh they project so much further onto the one-story existing homes that still will be there.

So I think that's something that when we can, I would like to see implement it and also on the driveways.

Yeah, I would really like to see us being using um uh the pavers as opposed to concrete.

And I think did you just send the article with somebody just sent me a really good article that showed um some pavers that are being developed in Germany, I believe, that um and we've seen things like that here where there's grass in between the pavers, you know, and I thought, oh yeah, I mean, I don't really I know I didn't get it until all these storms hit us, and I know I do get it now, that um we all have to be responsible.

We all have to play a role in this, and um when we're um built rebuilding our homes, we have to be making better choices if we're gonna continue to live in a small coastal city.

I mean, if that's not your thing, then go live in rural America and you know, and it's okay.

But um, so I am in agreement with that, but I don't, you know, I'm under the impression that um as uh Bill 180 right now does not really prevent does not really allow us to do much, but I'm also cautiously optimistic that in this next session that it's gonna be adjusted because what I'm hearing from everybody is that they want it adjusted.

So I say if we hold our breath for maybe another five months, we might not have to wait that long.

Right.

So I would hate to jump jump the gun and then you know, potentially uh not be able to do what we want anyway, and and let's see how this thing plays out.

And then in terms of the watershed, I think I just want to say, you know, we waited a long time to get this report.

And um once we got the report, it was as we have said, quite overwhelming, quite shocking in terms of the amount of money that um would be put out if we were to move forward with the six projects that were suggested.

I'm really pleased that we um immediately had a workshop and invited everybody to it, uh, but that we had the workshop uh rather than wait through the holidays.

This was too important.

And there will be future conversations on this as well.

So in terms of where are we now?

Okay, as a result of the workshop, there were a lot of questions asked and a lot of statements made, and certainly uh there was consensus among several things, even though we didn't call for consensus.

There was quite a bit of consensus made.

So the um the engineering firm now does have all that information.

And um our city manager is in commu regular communication and they will be working on bringing us back some more information now that would more clearly address some of the issues that we raised and some of the ideas that we had that we thought you know could be fixes as well and maybe um potentially a little less expensive way to do it.

So we are making progress.

You know, this is not something where it's not like we're gonna hear about it one day and a month later go out and spend 75 million dollars that we don't have.

So it's gonna be a process, and I I imagine it will be discussed on almost every meeting that we have through the entire year of 2026 as we start to make progress on different uh parts of it.

So with that, I'm going to say yes, you may.

What we'll do is we'll ask the engineer to give us a proposal to start studying some of the things that council had a consensus to use the word is on to look at what it would cost to start evaluating those.

Because that's the next step.

Okay.

Is it feasible?

Basically, your next step would be what's the feasibility and estimated where it to cost we'll get we'll hire him to do that to start.

Is it feasible to do we'll use an area an area of green space?

Is it big enough?

Is it can we make it deep enough?

We'll start with that proposal to look at some of those things.

Because you're if that's some of the things that you all talked about.

Yeah, I think that's really important because I did feel like at our workshop that um we did have a consensus on the level of service and the way that was defined to us.

But um when they proposed the six projects to us, there was uh some assumptions made.

And I'm not I don't think that we necessarily agreed with all the assumptions that they made and we've opened that door now to maybe you made an assumption that we would never consider uh looking at our green space.

And um I think maybe we would consider looking at our green space if it's that option versus our uh residents continuing to flood.

So it's things like that that were discussed and and um it was a good conversation um that happened that night between the public and the council themselves.

So I was really glad that happened.

Can can I just ask if they're gonna do another study, does that mean we'll have to pay them more money?

Exactly.

So would that be part of an adaptation study?

Because those you can get for free from the Tampa Bay um planning council and other places.

I mean, and addressed.

Yeah, yeah, but you can you can get a a report from an engineer and still have an adaptation study done by somebody else.

Let us talk to Mr.

Keller first and see what because rather than us paying more money, if the adaptation people can do it for free, that would save us money.

I I don't know, I don't know if maybe we need the engineer to do it first.

I don't know that.

But um and I'll check with the Tampa Bay Regional Planning on that too and let you know.

All righty, with that, eight o'clock meeting adjourned.