Good afternoon.

It is Wednesday, June the 17th, 2026, and the time is 2 03 p.m.

I'm Mayor Pro Tim Martha Castax Tatum, the chair of our economic development committee, and I'd like to call this meeting to order.

I do want to welcome uh all committee and council members staff and guests in attendance today.

Uh thank you, Councilmember Flickinger, who is here, Councilmember Ramirez, who is here, Councilmember Alcorn, Vice Mayor Pro Tim Peck, who is here, Councilmember Carter.

We do have staff from Councilmember Castillo's office, staff from Councilmember Martinez's office, and staff from Councilmember Thomas's office in attendance as well.

This meeting is being uh held and is open to the public.

It's in person and virtually, and we're also broadcasting uh on HTV.

Council members and staff, of course.

If you would just hold your questions until the end of the presentation.

Uh, if you if you'd like to ask questions and are present in the chamber and request to speak, if you're joining virtually, you can request to speak in the chat pod.

Vice Chair Flickinger, do you have any remarks you'd like to make at this time?

No, ma'am.

Okay.

There are 12 members of the public who have signed up to speak today.

If you did not have an opportunity to sign up to speak and you're in the chamber and you'd like to speak, there is a sign-up sheet at the front table on your right.

Our two district K interns are manning the table, so y'all give them something to do so they can uh have have some fun today uh while they're working in the district K office.

Uh public speakers will have a chance to speak at the conclusion of the presentation.

Uh any questions uh that may come up, either today or after the presentation, you can definitely email that to the district K office at district K at Houston TX.gov, and we will forward those to the respective departments and entities for responses.

Um we have one presentation scheduled today, and that presentation will be done by Lee Vella, who is the vice president of public affairs for clear channel outdoor, and Lanny Farrow, the vice president of public affairs outfront media, and they will present today on digital billboards.

Uh Mr.

Vela and Ms.

Farrow, uh thank you for being here.

If you are ready, we are ready for your presentation.

Good afternoon, madam chair.

Thank you very much for having us here and members of council.

We appreciate you being here.

And on my left is Lanny Farrell with Outfront Media.

And we're really here to talk about an opportunity and to explain the technology that works and the benefit, the economic benefit of digital billboards.

We're here to speak about to traffic and public safety, lighting standards, and how technology can be used for across the state.

If we can change the slide, there you go.

So that's our agenda today, and we'll be happy to answer any questions that you may have once we've finished our presentation.

Uh and so um we'd like to talk about first um if we go to slide three.

Uh that's that starts with updated technology, leading to a net reduction of the number of billboards while creating a dynamic communications platform.

We are proposing um, we are proposing uh a responsible update to the Houston Sign Code that will allow legally permitted existing relocated billboards to use modern technology.

Modern technology and moving uh from printed messages to electronic messages.

You can think of this kind of like the difference between having an older model car uh that had a hand crank uh window versus a newer model that we just push a button uh for it to go up.

Uh the purpose of this technology uh is will be limited to commercial and industrial areas, um, and we propose that it'll be limited to commercial industrial areas as well as control access interstates and roadways.

We are recommending prescribed spacing between billboards, stringent light controls, a phase uh phase rollout in a number of years along with other controls and restrictions.

We recommend uh using a trade-in model there where a set of uh number where there's a set number of billboards are removed in exchange for the right to convert other billboards, uh creating it to digital technology, creating a net reduction of billboards within the city's jurisdiction.

We propose a three to one ratio, meaning a three minimum of three billboards would be permanently removed from the landscape uh before a fourth one can be converted to digital, and this will dramatically change the um the urban landscape that we live in.

This electronic platform built over a number of years creates a dynamic message tool that can be levied leveraged by the city to interact with its citizens, and on and on critical health issues, welfare issues, safety and events in real time.

Over a hundred and eleven Texas cities now allow digital billboards in their cities, and they enjoy the economic benefit from that.

We go to slide four.

What we've had out to you is some suggested language for this proposed uh ordinance change.

So um digital billboards use modern LED panels that display a series of static messages changing every eight seconds.

They do not flash, they do not scroll, they use full, they do not use full motion, but static messages that change every eight seconds.

The static messages change within less than two seconds, and panels have uh light uh sensors that automatically adjust for the ambient light in conditions.

The current technology meets dark sky ordinances uh across the country.

Next slide.

As it relates to economic impact, uh modern technology on existing billboards creates uh a positive economic uh impact on the city.

The city will see economic impact with increased construction, electrical, and operating permits uh on these digital billboards.

Small businesses have relied on out-of-home advertising primarily because other forms of media are incredibly expensive, right?

And so small businesses tend to benefit more from out-of-home, um, and this a digital technology will enhance that opportunity for small businesses.

About 70%, of billboard messages are local.

They're local small businesses.

Uh, they promote those businesses, they support and create jobs for residents, uh, and they drive sales tax revenue for the city.

In addition to local businesses, the nonprofit community, law enforcement community leverage these billboards as well, uh, to promote uh public awareness campaigns, and in some cases, nonprofits generate funding when needed.

Uh a study conducted uh by Dr.

Ray Taylor with Villanova uh recently found that 77% of businesses surveyed said that they would lose out on sales without access to billboards.

That's fairly significant.

Um, so we understand safety is a huge concern as it should be.

Uh digital billboards were first installed in 2007 in Cleveland, Ohio, and in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

And since there have been exhaustive studies uh related to their safety.

Uh the most thorough multi-year study was conducted in 2013 by the Federal Highway Administration and the National Highway Traffic Safety Association.

Most recently, in 2025, the Texas Department of Transportation requested that the Texas Traffic Institute at Texas ANM conduct a safety survey, which indicated the same.

They're safety neutral.

Additional vehicular car data has been generated in both New York and Massachusetts, and the same has found no detrimental safety impact to the community.

Next slide, please.

So public safety is certainly a concern of everyone, and digital billboards have been extremely effective in assisting law enforcement in finding missing children.

Since 2008, we have displayed over thousand, a thousand messages using pictures of children, subject to amber alerts and the connection with the National Assistant Center for Missing Exploited Children and the Texas Center for the Missing.

And the local campaigns have reunited 20 children, Texas children with their families, just from the digital billboard messages.

Many of those in San Antonio, because we have more coverage inside the city in San Antonio.

Working with the FBI, we have 53 fugitives whose uh faces were displayed during the Stop Houston Gangs program that we did with them, were in our apprehended, and that resulted in an 85% capture rate for the FBI and Houston's crime stoppers.

Locally, we we direct we directly work with Homeland Security in six counties now.

And I will give some pass outs for these.

Locally, we work with six counties in the homeland security offices to display emergency messaging in when we have another storm, either a man-made or natural disaster.

And that has been extremely successful and won a number of awards in being able to inform the public instantly when there isn't a danger uh lurking out in the uh in the Gulf or in a certain in certain areas.

Uh various cities have looked at this as a as an asset, particularly when you have uh large petrochemical install installments that are in their cities.

So we're passing out some letters from the FBI and from uh Houston Pets and from Judge Mark Henry from Galveston County as well.

Next slide, please.

As it relates to lighting, so digital billboards produce less light trespass than traditional printed billboards.

Louvers direct light downward to the roadway, and the current tech the current technology that we use complies with dark sky ordinances across the country.

Uh the out-of-home industry standards include strict brightness controls, and they're capped at 0.3 foot candles over ambient light.

Uh, these standards have been adopted by TechSdot and local municipalities across the state of Texas.

Uh brightness auto adjusts to surrounding conditions, and all panels have an auto shutoff trigger.

Um, the what we have found in the lighting currently with the new technology is that the out-of-home industry itself, besides the state regulating out-of-home, and what we're able to do, we ourselves as an industry have highly regulated ourselves to be a good community partner in this space of lighting.

Next slide, please.

So, our technology, the technology we use on these digital billboards has been approved by the Texas Transportation Commission.

Um, it was approved in 2007, and the first boards were converted in San Antonio and El Paso in 2008.

Um, as Lee mentioned, uh, they're used in over a hundred and eleven cities in Texas and approximately a thousand cities across the US, as I mentioned, very tightly regulated by state regulation, but also heavily regulated by the industry and the companies themselves.

Um, next slide, please.

So we wanted to show you some examples of some of the projects that we've done.

I know some of you are very familiar with some of our projects.

When we first launched this campaign, it resulted in a 33% increase in the number of calls going into the call center in Washington, DC, for human trafficking out of Texas.

That resulted in 1,204 victims being found and helped, specifically from the Billboard campaign.

This was the first time this organization had used outdoor advertising to uh to put their message out on the streets, and they want the FHWA uh awarded them a very prestigious award for that campaign.

We are currently running this campaign again, and we're doing this nationwide with the help of Union Pacific and A21 and um uh and Clear Channel Outdoors.

So we're this is something we're very committed to.

Um in addition, we have worked with Bob's uh ranch and rescues, Bob's House of Hope, uh, and we were unaware that this was such an issue, but it is, uh, where boys are being trafficked, and this is the only safe house in the nation where boys can be helped.

Uh, you'll hear later from one of the folks here, but that that um that campaign resulted in a lot of lives being changed.

Uh we talked about our missing children's campaign.

These are two examples of two children, one here in Houston and one in um San Antonio that were found and reunited with their with their um families.

Uh and we have letters from these families thanking us because it was only because of the billboard um uh digital messages that their picture was seen and somewhat knew where this child was and got them home.

So we're very, very proud of those particular campaigns, and uh we continue with that campaign today.

Uh we just launched it last May 25th, so it is something that we do every year as an annual event, working with the National Center for Missing Exploring Children and the Texas Center for the Missing.

Next slide.

Yeah, I'm sure I'm happy to jump in here.

As it relates to local businesses and small businesses that are able to utilize um out of home, right?

FIFA is a great example, right?

We've uh so outfront media as well as Clear Channel have partnered with FIFA all across the country, right?

Um, and we've seen some amazing success for small businesses in those various cities, right?

We we've seen a huge increase in foot traffic to fan zones and things of that nature.

And so this is uh a campaign that we ran uh very recently as a countdown great great opportunity utilizing digital.

As it relates to public service as well, and something we we touch upon very uh little here, but is very important is emergency management and um as it relates to weather alerts and traffic alerts.

Um, in many cases, we have municipalities reaching out to us as companies saying, you know, we want to discuss opportunities to utilize billboards as a mechanism for emergency messaging during major storms, um, during traffic events to help the community better understand the situation at hand at the moment.

Um, and so that is something that we we consistently see more and more municipalities come to us, counties come to us to discuss that that opportunity.

And then next slide.

Well, that's it.

Oh, here it is.

Yeah.

Um, again, opportunities for local businesses utilizing digital media, right?

Um, so in in some cases, we have organizations that will reach out to us and say we're trying to drive foot traffic to an event, we're trying to generate revenue, generate fundraising initiatives toward a nonprofit.

How can you help us in the immediate, right?

Digital media allows for that.

Um, it helps drive people to games, uh, it helps drive people to donations.

So this is just some some creative that we wanted to share on things that we've utilized on digital media that we've utilized to help small businesses in a particular moment in time to drive attention or awareness or funding.

And then, well, I will say that the flexibility that this uh mode of communications offers offers us the opportunity to react quickly.

Uh the one slide you see there with a capsule across it.

If you'll recall in 2023, there was this uh gentleman who murdered his family up in the Cleveland area.

We literally had something up on our digital boards within 30 minutes of being called by the FBI, and FBI has told us that the lead that came in that caught this guy was it came from someone seeing the billboard message in Conroe, because we're inside the city of Conroe.

So these we know that this works, whether it's stop Houston gangs where we're putting up a new a wanted gang member every week, and many of them turning themselves in because they don't want to see their picture up there, or it's working with the FBI on crimes such as this.

We know it works.

And that is the essence of economic development, keeping our safe our streets safe, uh finding missing children, uh being prepared for emergency messaging uh in our city, and that is true uh in our view, true economic development uh issues that we uh we think that we can be a pivotal part of that for the city and want to work with the city um uh as a partner in in move putting out these messages throughout law enforcement through the emergency messaging and so forth that will not only will just nothing do nothing but benefit the city.

Okay.

So with that, we will turn it over to you all.

Thank you for the presentation, and and we'll have some questions.

But colleagues, I wanted to um just let you all know that I met with um Lee and Lenny and the billboard folks, um, and they told me they wanted to present.

I said, let's just kind of see the pulse of the council, um, with these digital billboards.

So here they are.

Um, it is not a secret that there is big opposition to these billboards, primarily through um the scenic Houston group.

Uh we all have heard the pros and cons from the billboard team and from Cynic Houston.

Uh in an ideal world, our billboard friends and our scenic Houston friends would sit together and bring us a proposal and say, hey, why don't we do this?

Um that may happen, that may not happen, but I think it's important for us to um ask the questions, um, and see if there is an opportunity to move forward.

I will tell you that there has this is not uh a push uh by the administration.

This was I met with the billboard folks.

Let's just see the what the appetite or the pulse of the council is at this time.

I know that um in order for us to do anything, we would have to change the the ordinance, the sign ordinance.

Um that is a big deal.

Um we have not had any conversations with uh the legal department.

There are um other cities that have ordinances.

Um, when I met with them, I said, Well, what cities have ordinances, you know, what does that look like?

Um, so this is just the presentation of the digital billboards and checking the pulse of the council, and then we'll determine what comes next.

Um, colleagues, if you want to go to questions now, I see councilmember Alcorn is in the queue.

Taking the pulse of the council, my pulse is racing.

It's no secret that I am opposed to digital billboards in Houston.

I think we have worked too long and too hard for decades to improve the visual landscape of our city.

Um, but certainly the Mayor Pro Tem is the right person and uh is always gonna give people the floor, and I I say that knowing how much good you have done in the public realm already um for the city, and I don't discount um the work both of you have done to help with public safety and other matters.

You talked about safety standards, safety studies.

You know, I can I can show you other studies that say differently, right?

We can outstudy each other.

Um but but ultimately we live in a city, a region that is one of the most dangerous in the country.

You look away for two seconds at 65 to 75 miles an hour, you've gone to football field.

And I've seen studies, the Alabama Florida studies, federally funded, that show there's a 25 to 29 percent greater crash rates around digital billboards.

We're not we could debate, like I said, we could debate all the studies back and forth.

Um I do want to talk to you a little bit about it it seems like you're making a proposal.

Has this proposal the Mayor Pro Tem said this is not being led by the Whitmaier administration?

Have you made a formal proposal other than sitting right here?

No.

Okay.

And tell me how the three to one would work.

As you know, we're under a uh we've been under, you know, the sign code kind of allows for us taking down billboards over time.

So how would you propose the three to one takedown?

Well, if we really want to change the urban landscape and have less billboards, this is one of the only ways to do that.

Um, and to also think about the I 45 project will displace about 125 billboards, which we'll have the right to find new homes for.

So, you know, looking at something that's better for the city.

If you really want less, then that's better for the city, then we'd look at some sort of ratio.

Three to one would mean three square feet of an existing billboard, so for one square foot of a digital billboard.

So 672 feet is a is a uh size of a 14 foot by 48 foot size sign, so you would do times three, and that would be the number of of square feet that you would come up with.

So you'll get more structures that way than just doing structure-to-structure.

So it wouldn't include the the ones that are already coming down from 45.

Well, we'll have location rights for those.

So okay.

Okay, I guess I just need to get rid of the details of that.

That's something we could certainly talk about, for sure.

What kind of you talk about economic benefits to city?

How many ads do you put on one digital billboard?

There are eight in a rotation.

Eight in a rotation, and moving every eight seconds.

Okay.

Once you're in the rotation, it your your message comes up twelve hundred and fifty times per day.

Okay.

And your revenue to the city is by um just from the permitting from permitting each.

Yes.

Yes.

And what what are those permit?

I mean, the static signs, do you know what?

I don't really have that information, but we can certainly get it for you.

I mean, uh, I think yeah, we can certainly get that.

I can get it from our people.

Um, so you you were talking about phasing, like, you know, that it wouldn't be like yes.

I propose that we would do no more than 10 per company per year.

10 per company per year.

And how many companies?

Well, we represent about 85 to 90 percent of the billboard uh permits in the city, but there are actually 21 operators in the city, uh many of those are one or two type billboards.

Uh so if you uh there are 21 operators, and uh there are 14 that have one sign each out of that number, and there are there's one that has two signs.

It this proposal would get uh seven operators could participate.

And if we open up the sign code, I mean we have we have on premise, you you're allowed to do a digital sign at on-premise, but there's all kinds of restrictions.

Yes.

We do this and K-bar the door, in my opinion.

They will all be here trying to end any kind of restrictions, and we will be lit up like a 4th of July all over town.

And that's happened in other cities.

So, I mean, that's a big thing to consider, in my opinion.

I'll I'll have some more questions, but I'll let somebody else go.

Okay.

I do want to say that I want to uh recognize Councilmember Davis who came in after I did the recognitions, but he is here and has been here.

But I see you.

I see you.

Councilmember Ramirez is next in the queue, though.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Appreciate the presentation.

I'd like to know what we're talking about in numbers.

So how many how many billboards does Clear Channel currently have in Houston, if you know, Lee?

I don't have the exact number of do I have approximate.

Witness there, they can help maybe.

No.

I don't know.

I'm not sure about the exact number.

Do you know?

The 500.

The last number we heard was maybe around 14, 1500.

Are they like maybe combined?

Ours is 550.

So you have 550, so do we can we say around 14, 1500 billboards?

There are about 400 poster panels and 1500 is approximate.

And they're 500.

So you'd have to you'd have to count them and find out uh for any ordin before any ordinance passed, right?

If you're gonna start three out, of course, yeah.

So about 1500 and outfront has about 550, so about roughly two thousand.

Right.

How would you determine?

So if the ordinance passed and you remove three for every one that you were permitted, how would you determine uh which ones to take out?

Well, so much it depends on spacing and coverage of the market.

And then also we have um contractual agreements with landowners that we have to take into effect as well.

Um there there's reference to a distance requirement, distance between them.

Do you know what the distance requirement is currently and what's the distance requirement?

Well, we don't have digital hearings right now, but text dot requirements are 1,500 feet.

1500 feet between them currently.

Yes, sir.

And we would go to what?

That's something that we would discuss.

Okay.

What have other cities adopted?

Um usually it's around the text dot um uh uh regulations.

Uh some cities will do more, some cities will do less, but it's somewhere in that neighborhood.

And um is the size of the digital billboard the same size.

14 feet by 48 feet.

Okay, and uh the digital billboards uh have LED bulbs.

Is that correct?

So how many how many LED bulbs would be in one of these digital billboards?

I'm gonna phone a friend, but I would know.

There are about 1,300.

I don't have the exact number of bulbs.

Are they done in modules or modules?

You'll have to talk into my you'll have to come and talk in the microphone.

We want to get that on the ground.

It's done in modules.

So it's it's squares.

So basically, at about 1,300.

About 1,300 bulbs total.

So so what happens when those LED bulbs go out?

What do you all do with them?

That's a good question.

We that panel, that entire section of bulbs is replaced.

And typically most companies have uh whether it's a contractual obligation with a municipality or a contractual obligation with a landowner, it's typically within 24 to 48 hours that we fix those light bulbs.

And remember, those are ads, and we don't want to make our customers unhappy.

So we're quick to very quick to change those.

Got it.

But looking at it from an e-waste uh perspective.

So what do you do with uh the bulbs that that you have replaced?

So we all both companies have major sustainability programs, even our vinyls, for instance, gets scrubbed and recycled.

Um so we we have we have very stringent um sustainability um policies within the company to recycle and do all those things.

Um, that you would do with any electronics.

So what that means they go to uh uh uh specialized company that handles that or we send them somewhere where they can be replaced, right?

If if we have a uh a subcontractor, for entry that can refurbish or fix those that unit, then we would do that as well.

But but ultimately, what what happens?

What's done with the bulb if you know?

I don't know.

I really don't know either, but we can certainly find out for it.

We can get back to you with that.

And um I think Lee, you mentioned no no scrolling, no uh flashing, no flashing, no live animation, and federal regs for that.

Okay, so when I've done like PowerPoints and their different animation modes.

So what what's no animation?

No animation, no animation at all.

So just sort of we don't even put QR codes on our billboards.

Yeah, the federal government prohibits full live animation.

Yeah, um, all right.

So, Councilmember Alcorn mentioned competing studies that show that they do pose a safety hazard.

Um I'm not familiar with any study that shows anything.

Well, I mean, there are a lot of studies on on various things, but what we go by is what the FHWA had done, and it's it was a multi-year study that was done by the federal government, federal highway administration that found them safety neutral.

So that has sort of and the industry was not involved in that at all.

And then the Texas AM just did what something last uh year.

Uh the same came up with the same conclusions in Texas.

Okay, I'd I'd be interested to we can get you this.

We can get your copy.

So some references to those, yeah.

That'd be great.

Um I think I think that's all I've got for now.

Appreciate it.

Okay, thank you.

Councilmember Davis.

Thank you, Mayor Pro Tim.

Uh, thank you guys for the presentation.

Um I am very, you know, interested in the presentation regarding um the digital billboard uh from an aspect uh my colleague who talked about the idea that uh data from both sides of the issue over digital than rather the standard.

Um at this point, for me, one of the things I listen and looked through all of the material.

I'm very actively involved in how we present crime stats in our city.

I've lived in two major cities, both Chicago and Houston, three and four.

And um we understand all of the data of the day dealing with sex trafficking, um in terms of murders.

I was looking at the stats, and like I say, I don't want to get into the data approach to it.

Um I'm really more concerned about the benefit of it, not that it'd be a hazardous, not arguing that it wouldn't be to some people, but but by record uh on the public, it says the digital um billboarding is recalled by the general audience 74 to 89% of the time.

74 to 89 percent of the time, people watch it and they and they remember, right?

This flips every eight seconds, correct?

So with much of what's happening and the concern, like right now, I went to a town hall meeting just a few weeks ago in District D, um, at large.

So I go everywhere that I possibly can, district D, because of the rising homicide rate in one particular community, which is where I live at 7004.

So we're always looking for people who commit different crimes and of all sorts.

So I'm I'm a more um favorable of the fact of what the digital signage can do, they help in that.

We sit around the horses, we talk about crime rates, we talk about uh all kinds of things.

We know right now Houston's a pretty popular city based on the growth and everything that's here.

So um, do you think my question would be the positive effect of not just advertising and marketing for business, but also in the safety aspect.

I will tell you, Councilmember, a few years ago we worked with the Harris County Sheriff's Department on a case that was a coal case.

It was uh 18 months cold of a serial rapist in the Northwest area, Northeast area.

And we only had two uh sketches of this guy, and we put it on the digital, and we we alternated one sketch over the other, and within three weeks, he was turned in.

They caught the guy, he'd been on the loose for eighteen months.

So we know it works.

I tell people it's a little like uh the old wanted posters in the post office, but not many people go to a post office anymore.

Uh but putting that image out on the streets, somebody knows something somewhere somewhere about that individual who has done something, not just that, but just with this the missing children as well.

So much of this is tied into human trafficking.

Uh, we'll tell you also a really short story about one year we had a young lady we were going to feature on the on the billboard for human traffic for for missing children's uh day, and her mother called three days before the press conference and said we don't really need to do it.

I've heard from my daughter, she's in another state, and they're paying her in cash.

And I said, that's exactly why we need to do this press conference.

And we did it, and within three weeks, that young girl was home with her family.

So we know it has a positive effect on crime, on finding children, on emergency messaging.

We know that with that is proven.

We have we have that proven.

Yeah, uh, and this proposal will not only benefit the city that way, but it will also reduce the number of billboards throughout the city.

Right.

And what is here now is is going to be here for a good long time because it's protected by the highway education act, uh, federal rec.

So this is a way to look at really changing the urban landscape, really making something that's a positive for making the city look better, and also a positive for solving crimes and public safety.

If I may add, one of the what we work with so many municipalities and counties across the country in in what we call community information panel projects or just municipal contracts, and the biggest supporters of digital billboards always to come out first are fire chiefs and police chiefs.

Right.

And I could see that we have countless letters from major cities like Atlanta, um LA that have written letters detailing what an assistance it has been to their programs.

And that would share for sure.

Right, and a digital can get more messages out than a standard standalone.

Okay.

Yes, correct.

And it can be back to the queue.

Thank you.

The key is time.

With a missing child or or a crime, time is of the essence.

Traditional billboards can take three weeks to put together and be on the streets.

I'm sorry.

Councilmember Flickr.

Sorry.

Thank you, Mayor Pro Tam.

So the proposal that you all are putting forward is essentially for every four billboards you have, you would end up with one.

Well, this is a three for one proposal.

So you get rid of three, and one of them would be converted.

So for every four, you end up with one.

Yes, yes.

So okay, and I assume existing boards, no new boards.

Correct.

And I assume that it's a more advantageous time to be done here while the I 45 expansion is going on because you're gonna have to be pulling some down anyway.

Yes.

So rather than putting those back up one for one in another location, you would trade them in.

Yes.

Okay.

Um Councilmember Mary's talked about the the e-waste.

Is there currently waste with the program that you have now with the signage?

I mean, when you start with traditional billboards, yes.

Uh, we we have both companies have a very robust um uh uh sustainability programs, and many of these uh the the vinyls are going to billboards, are recycled and and made into products as you remember.

As a matter of fact, yes, you all have uh of a uh notebook that I gave you that uh is made from a recycled billboard.

So essentially you're dealing with some of the same issues just now it's electronic versus.

We also we also just uh FYI for hurricane season coming up.

We also um will give those scrubbed vinyls to for roofs, for temporary tarping and yes, I I I heard that before, so yeah, okay so we do we're very very sustainability focused.

Okay, thank you very much.

Councilmember Carter.

Thank you, Chair.

Um well, certainly, friends.

Uh you know that I certainly I understand the public safety and and certainly have benefited on public safety side for human trafficking as and also for domestic violence.

But as you know, this topic opens up a bit of a can of worms because there are many questions our friends from Scenic Houston in a perfect world, my prayer would be you all could get together and and come up with a great solution.

Um I've received a number of emails and and uh one of the one of the questions that I have to ask um is regarding regarding uh the billboards as relates to the tax rolls and specifically um there's uh called out a piece of property that you know say is valued at 550,000 with a three-sided billboard that uh the improvements show you know zero, and so the taxes are just strictly on the land, but yet the advertising on on one side of the billboard is you know roughly 90,000 dollars or whatever the number, and so you know there's been a question as to how the city could handle the revenue or handle and create a revenue stream for these billboards because and I think you know which one I'm talking about, um and you know it's it's we we talk about the the public safety, also the um benefit of the nonprofit side, but also to then there's that other side.

So, you know, um on the the general on the revenue that this that the advertising that the billboards generate, how you know, how do we how do we look at that?

Well, I mean, if you tax the revenue that comes from advertising sales, then that's a sales tax on advertising, uh, which has been spoken about in a number of states and and in Texas, but has not been successful in through the legislature.

Um so uh I I don't know how if a city could actually do that, but it it state couldn't do it.

Well growing up in this area, certainly I remember the before, and we've talked about the before and and now from from here to to here.

So I certainly appreciate um the work done to eliminate some of those static boards.

Um, you know, it's it's again a sticky, sticky subject.

But thank you for being here and thank you for your presentation and and our friends out in the audience here.

Maybe we could just have a a big lunch and sit down and talk about it for a long long time.

Thank you.

Councilmember Alcar.

Thank you, Chair.

Uh I'm not a light expert, but it seems to me a digital billboard is lit up.

A static billboard is just lit at night.

I mean, you've got and you're changing it.

You're changing if you're going from a dark screen to a light screen.

I mean it catches your eye, it draws it draws your attention away, unlike a static billboard.

But again, that's a safety issue.

And it's and this and this and the safety study that you're quoting is is over a decade old.

Um there's there's more recent information that you know, with everybody on their phones anyway, driving down the street, you know, everybody's looking away anyway.

It's one more thing to look away at.

But talk to me a little bit more about the lighting because you taught you you talked about um these are not as bright.

Um, they just hard for me like they're they're lit.

I mean, they never go over for 0.3 foot candles, which is the industry and the nationwide standard for both companies and from our national organization, the outdoor advertising association of America.

And to in order to make sure that happens, then each each uh board is equipped with a light meter that that light changes as the ambient light changes around it.

So it's never going to be if you'll never see them glaring.

Now you will see some on-premise uh uh digital signs glaring uh because the the regs are a bit different.

But with with outdoor with off-premise signs, they'll never glare because they'll never go over 0.3 foot candles.

Uh and we may we go to very long strides to make sure that is adhered to.

But this is our own self-pleasing.

This is not in many cases, not it's not required, but we do it.

Uh because we it's a distraction, we agree.

And no one can see the ad.

I mean that that takes away from what we're what we're trying to do anyway.

What percent of your business is public safety notices?

Can you say?

What do you mean public safety notices?

PSAs or whatever.

What percent out of all here in the state of Texas, here in Houston?

Well national.

However, you want to give it to me.

We work with what we do is we work with inventory that's not sold.

And so we try to look at organizations and issues that we can have.

So you're mainly going to boards that aren't already sold.

Your boards that are sold, your running your ad times.

On the text dot issue, um, it's is has this been worked out?

Like you guys know you can relocate those signs wherever you want.

That's done deal.

You meet you meet all the all the pretty much departments.

Okay.

Okay.

All right.

Um are there any restrictions on other than uh, well, there's a whole list of where they can go and all that sort of thing.

Um, I don't have all that here with me, but yes.

And what's the timing of of that?

We should know, but I'm not of what when those when that stretch.

Yeah, the the timing, if you're talking about when is it happening?

It's happening now.

And we're already getting condemnations now.

Okay.

And we've and we have worked in states where roadway projects have not taken into account the relocation of billboards, and it has severely impacted, it's caused lawsuits, it's it's severely impacted the projects run up the cost of projects, which is why I the time is now to plan um and avoid all of that.

Where'd you come up with three to one?

I'm looking at St.

Petersburg, Florida with 13.8 to one and other places with a lot higher takedowns for the digital space.

If you're getting eight eight ads on each one to rotate for 1250, messages, why don't we take down 1400?

I think I think that's probably um like, for instance, I'm I'm from Florida.

St.

Pete is a very small beach town, um, not a lot of not a lot of billboards.

Yeah.

Um, most like-size cities and counties are three to one.

Three to one.

We operate in 12 or 13 cities surrounding Houston, and it will vary anywhere from two to three to one.

So it there's nothing here like nothing in anything around Houston that does something different.

It's pretty much the standard around in the industry and in throughout the state of Texas, okay.

That's all I have for now.

Councilmember Ramirez.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

So I'm interested in the impact on your workforce if you go digital, because the static billboards have to be maintained by workers, correct?

And I would assume when you're uh loading, if you will, you know, the digital ads, you can do that um electronically, perhaps even remotely.

What what's been the effect on your workforce?

We're not ever going to be 100% digital.

Well, right.

We're not ever going to be 100% digital.

We will be static and digital together.

Correct.

Yeah, and and the the digital will require just as much operations staffing.

I can tell you in the 14 markets that I represent, uh, when we've done major digital conversions, like I'll give you my personal example in Atlanta.

We took 95 faces down, built 20.

Um, we actually increased our operations team.

So digital doesn't mean a reduction in operating.

It actually that actually creates a positive economic impact to more jobs.

And I will say Houston is one of the last major cities without this technology on the streets.

Um you uh with with FIFA being here right now as we talk, um, every other major host city had very robust programs with outdoor advertising on digital billboards except Houston.

Yes, in in dealing with the FIFA host committee myself, in Miami, Dallas, and Atlanta, that was brought up as one of the detriments.

Um, this was that there not was not sufficient opportunity for their sponsorship here.

Okay.

Let me ask you about fees.

So in the cities where you've gone to digital billboards, have have those cities enacted higher fees for the digital billboards?

In some cases, yes.

In some cases, yes.

And what what has been what some of the differences you've seen there?

I mean uh it it's all something we've been in board.

Yeah, it really just depends on the total number of boards.

Um uh get kind of becomes a negotiation, but I think as companies, we understand that there's there's a benefit for both the city and for us to reduce the total number of billboards in the community, and so we are willing to go for a higher permit fee.

Um so that there is opportunity in that.

In most cases, the it the fee increases in some cases minimally, in some cases moderately.

Okay.

Um last topic uh public safety.

Now, I certainly appreciate uh, you know, the the the public uh service that uh the billboard companies do provide uh from time to time.

And uh curious to know, because Lee, you mentioned uh a case where you are able to load uh information about uh a suspect who was being uh hunted by the police in very short order.

Yes, right.

So is it a situation where you would interrupt the uh the rotation that's already uh going on uh of advertisements in order to uh put the information out about the suspect or how to do it?

It would depend upon what we do, what how we're working with that particular organization.

I will tell you with our emergency messaging, we have protocols in place that we know if it's a level one, level two, level three, level five.

Uh and uh in that stage, the first it will be get ready, storm in the gulf, that sort of thing.

It could be um uh evacuation message.

What's the message in Galveston County?

Maybe a different message in Harris County.

Um, but uh as the if as if as the danger progresses and gets more, we will interrupt, we will pro preempt commercial sales.

Yes.

Um if there is something that is a major crime that the FBI or the Sheriff's Department or HPD wants to get at something out quickly, then certainly we can look at putting those protocols in place for that particular issue as well.

I think I think every company in that respect will be different, but um instances that we've done, we've blacked out our boards, so that that is the only image showing for a period of time.

In other cases, we'll make it uh every third, every fourth flip.

Yes, right, regardless of of the eight flips, um, it really does depend on the severity, but we have the ability to manipulate that.

And and then certainly our our boards, I think as well as yours are um manned in one location, so there's we've often heard some concerns about well, can somebody hack your billboards?

In our cases, no.

Uh we have an ironclad system in the years that outfront has been operating, I think the same for Clear Channel.

We have never had a hack.

Nobody has ever hacked our billboards, our digital billboards.

All right, thank you.

Councilmember Davis.

Thank you.

Uh, Madam Chair, uh, so much.

Last last question for me.

What how how quickly can we get the announcement up?

How how fast would that would that process be?

If something on digital on the digital 30, 30 max 30 minutes.

Yeah, 30 minutes.

It depends if the creative needs to be creative, right?

We need to develop a creative for the image, it could take 30 minutes.

If you have a creative that's already ready to go, yeah, we can just put that.

With our emergency messaging that we do with the homeland security offices, we have templates ready.

Correct.

So that we just slide in the what the message is that the homeland security offices want us to put up.

Yeah.

And literally when Barrel came through, I got the call, and within 15 minutes we had something up.

Okay, good.

Now, a reason I asked that too, because considering where we are, and being Houston, Texas, um, storms, other entities like that, you know, and this is again I'm not arguing you know against the the stationary or those who oppose it, but I think from an informational respect, because I remember the uh, you know, when we dealt with the hurricanes before, uh, you know, Rita and all that came into the city, uh, Katrina, and and it was a lot of issues with that, and it's branded because I was a part of that.

So it would have been very, very beneficial for people giving directions where they go, what exit they could make, whatever pertains to that, and that's just one example.

So I'm just basically looking at it from how it benefits the city as a whole and the county.

Council members, not just weather related issues as well.

It could be a plant explosion.

Yeah, yeah.

Remember a few years ago there was a fire in District A, and there were people were trained to be evacuated from because of chemicals.

Yeah, um, chemicals in the air.

That is a perfect example of how we can get something up quickly to inform people.

Not everyone watches television, not everyone listens to radio, but everybody moves around.

And in an ideal state, some of the best municipal partners will create templates for weather for and just have them through the PIO office and just have them ready to go in communication with us.

Yeah, and that that's that's that's very important.

Thank you.

What's your policy on the type of advertising allowed on the billboards?

Well, none of us, or neither one of us except sexually oriented businesses, number one.

Uh and any kind of adult um uh beverages or any kind of uh things that are directed to adults are restricted within 500 feet of churches, schools, and playgrounds.

What about sexual innuendos?

Um I don't yeah, we we're pretty strict on copy.

We turn down a lot of copy.

So I don't you do turn down copy?

We do, yes, all the time.

Okay.

Again, as an industry, we don't take tobacco products.

Well, right, because yeah, that's factory recognition.

But for SOVs, we don't take any kind of business from those folks.

Yes.

Okay.

Umber Carter, you're back in the queue.

Thank you, Chair.

Um, to clarify, on the PSAs, roughly in the Houston area.

Right.

I mean, you may not have this information handy, but at this time, how many static billboards or PSAs, and then what on the rotation through the on the digital, roughly, what does that look like?

It's it's tough to say because so many of them again are done with space available basis.

Uh, but we we are never totally 100% sold.

Now we're pretty close to it with FIFA right now, but but but barring that, we do have time and space, particularly on the digitals, that we can we can put up messages.

So uh to give you a percentage, a little tough to cut to do that.

We can try to determine that at a snapshot that we can look at for to tell you how much it is right at this moment, but it it fluctuates.

Yeah, what we could tell you is if if there were more digital, there would be more PSA space for us to have it out.

Right.

So there would be less space on the static, but if we had the digital capability, we would be able to run more PSA.

Right.

Nonprofits have as you well know, nonprofits have to pay for the production and for the materials that go on the billboard.

So with digital, there's no production cost, and it's my understanding that on those static, um, as the uh advertising is sold that static billboard for the PSA may move from here to to another.

Over there, you know, just as as inventories available.

So um at a certain level, there's a pretty consistent percentage of static PSAs.

Yeah, I would say anywhere from uh 10, 20 percent, something like that.

Dedicated to PSAs, you said there will always be static billboards, and if we move to digital, there would be both.

Um, are the digital billboards only the your potential only on highways?

They they wouldn't be like in urban corridors.

Are they only on highways?

No.

Surface streets, no.

No, freeways only, freeways only.

Because I know they have one in Stafford off of the Yeah, and that's a state highway.

Kind of highway.

Yeah.

Highway 90 is a state highway.

Okay, so yeah, state and state and federal highways.

Okay.

Uh Councilmember Alcorn, you're back in the queue.

Thank you.

Yes, and I appreciate this discussion.

I I I've read where it's more like one percent, and it might be higher than that, but I'd like to see more on that percentage.

We're here talking a lot about public safety, and I understand that's that's what you're here to sell.

Yeah.

But you're an advertising company.

I mean you're an advertising company that stands to make a whole lot of money if we go to digital and you're able to sell one billboard for eight eight different times.

So let's all be very clear about that.

And everybody, um, don't begrudge anybody's right to make them.

We're all here, we're all out there trying to make some money.

So um, but but I want to back to back to that types of advertising.

When we were having the digital bill, digital kiosk discussion, um, a lot of public safety, a lot of talk just like we're doing right here.

And I can't tell you how many times I go by a digital kiosk and there's a uh you know alcohol, alcohol or or popcorn chicken from Jack in the Box or whatever.

They're also do some art steps and some PSAs.

I know y'all aren't the digital kiosk people, but I just don't want to over sell this whole, you know, we're gonna be doing, you know, public safety every second of every day, because that's that's not that's not what's happening.

And uh I'm sure have y'all done the Eric Dick billboards, my former opponent who has any Eric Dick uh neither one of us billboards out there.

Neither one of us do.

All right.

Um that's all I have.

Again, my comments are not personal.

Um it is is definitely um I am on the opposing side of this.

I have a lot, we all have a lot to learn about this.

This is not uh this is a long conversation that I think should also very much involve the public and involve residents and involve everybody, you know, that that has a stake in this.

You talked a lot about that we it was kind of a disadvantage for the city and FIFA for not you know having sponsors to be able to roll those things.

You know, we we are Houston, and we have had a long history here where other cities have not had this kind of history, and I think that's why a lot of people like myself are very very reticent to open up the sign code again.

We've we've worked so hard to bring these down.

I know you're gonna be three for one as all, but to me, one digital bill, I'd rather have the three, the three static ones than the digital one.

I think they're way more dangerous, and and um I think that that our sign code is is having those come down over time anyway.

So anyway, that's all I have.

Um, goodbye.

What's what's the time frame for um?

I guess I would need to know more about the land leases and when they come down.

I guess that kind of varies from company to company.

It will.

What's the longest land lease that's out there?

Well, I mean, there most of our leases are multi-year, obviously, but uh, but it's like five years or 30 years.

Well, we have some yeah, we just have to go back.

I mean, we all have clauses we can uh enact and so forth in our in our contracts, but we have to do an analysis of who would that be, what makes sense for the market um because you don't want to put them all in one area, you want to have them all around.

Uh so it it's kind of a hard question to answer, uh just because some can be as quickly as you know, in a few months, and some could be taken a little bit longer, so it just really depends.

Yeah, okay.

Um it looks like those are the questions that are in the queue, and I know when we talked, um, you know, my suggestion was to chit chat with our Cena Keuston friends.

Has did y'all have a conversation about um we both have met with leadership in City Houston?

Yeah, back last year, yeah.

Um again, ideally, um, if there was anything drafted, it would come from the billboard team, our friends at Scenic Houston, and y'all would say, hey, here's something we think we both could live with.

But here we are.

Um, and we'll keep talking uh and we'll keep asking questions.

We want all of the council members to um determine what they like, what they don't like, what questions they have.

We definitely would want to go to the public.

Um we we of course have to have a conversation with the administration.

Um so thank you for your presentation today.

Thank you for your time, colleagues.

If there are no other questions, we'll move into our public comments.

As part of the public comments, I actually have a couple of letters from the individuals that are here to speak that if I could give them two.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you very much, Madam Chair and Council members.

We appreciate your time and your interest.

Thank you.

So the first person on the list of public speakers is Andrea French.

Andrea French.

How are you?

Hi, good.

How are you?

Good afternoon, Madam Chair.

Yes, members of the committee and council.

I am Andrea French.

Uh I have the privilege of serving as the executive director for Scenic Houston.

I want to thank you for your time and consideration today on this really important issue.

As many of you know, for over 40 years, Scenic Houston has worked really closely with the city of Houston, alongside to protect and enhance the visual space of our city and the character through thoughtful sign policy and community engagement through that sign policy change.

Elected officials and civic leaders like Eleanor Tinsley understood that Houston's skylines, bayous, parks, neighborhoods belong to all of us, and decisions about what dominates those landscapes matter.

It's interesting that we're talking about the World Cup so much and the lost opportunity to advertise because I was actually watching many of the promo videos that we are sharing with the world and asking them to come here, and we want the world to see Houston.

And it was interesting to me is what we what I saw, right?

So gaps of our bayous, our public spaces, our parks, our neighborhoods.

What was missing was billboards.

And so what I would say to you is what do we show the world that we value in those videos?

We value those open spaces, those green spaces, those beautiful skylines.

We do not value the billboards when we're trying to show the world who we are and what we value, and to come here and visit.

That observation tells us something important about the conversation before us today.

For the last 40 years, Houston has been moving in one direction.

So we went from 10,000, 10,000 billboards to 1,400 today, nearly 1400.

The sign code was designed so that over time those billboards would phase out because it was a unanimous and consensus-building exercise that we went through to say that this is something that we as a city value.

We value our skyline, we value what Houston looks like.

It didn't happen overnight, it happened because generations of Houstonians chose to balance growth, quality of life, and the visual character of our city, and it's the product of decades of policy refinement, civic leadership, and community consensus.

It was deliberate and it worked.

The Houston that we are proudly showing to the world today is in large part the result of many of those decisions over many decades.

And the story and future of Houston Sign Code is ultimately a story about context and perspective.

As I listened today, I was reminded that context matters, and we're talking about some of the data points.

So, yes, there are a hundred cities in Texas that do have digital billboards.

We have 1,400 incorporated cities in Texas.

So we are actually with the 93% of the cities in Texas that do not permit digital billboards.

We also heard the TTI safety study that made no recommendation against digital billboards.

And perhaps that's true, but it's not the complete picture.

The study also found that digital billboards attract significantly more driver attention than traditional billboards and with longer views.

So while it's not recommending against them, it certainly was not an endorsement.

So the three-to-one swap, right?

We know that there are cities that have gotten better deals.

And please understand that it's not just about the ratio swap.

If you want to go and look at each of those cities that are doing the swap, they have caps, they have sunset provisions, they have um uh sizing changes for the digital signs, um, they have space from the from the highway um setbacks, allowances.

There's all sorts of things that were negotiated, and the St.

Petersburg deal took about three years.

So I do encourage a slow, thoughtful process as we go forward.

So the information presented today, as I've said, does deserve additional scrutiny because before Houston changes a policy framework that has guided the city for over 40 years, council and the public deserve a complete understanding of all the implications.

The Houston the world is admiring today did not happen by accident or by quick decision.

It was built carefully, it was protected intentionally, and any change deserves the same care.

So thank you for your time today.

I look forward to continued conversations.

Any questions?

Thank you very much for uh being here, and I do want to just take a point of personal privilege and thank you for your help uh on bandit signs.

Oh, yes, we thank you.

Um we appreciate you.

Great work there.

And um hopefully we'll have a report soon of um some great benefit from the work we did on bandit signs and increasing those fines.

Yes, thank you.

Um is there any acceptable proposal to St.

Houston on modernization of billboards?

So I I think it would be really challenging to sit here today and throw out kind of a magic number, um, a magic list, a magic wish list, right?

I think I just kind of went through some different layers of deals, so to speak, that other cities have worked out.

Um there's there's a lot of layers, and even when we talk about the realignment of I-45, it's not quite as simple as what was explained.

Um, and so we have to look at city, state, and federal when we think about all of the different um opportunities for swaps and for um additional elements to an agreement, right?

So I mentioned kind of the setbacks, the sizing, uh we talked a little bit about lighting.

It's a deep conversation, and then and as I said too, I mean, the sign code is 40 years, it's decades, it's been refined, it's been revisited, it's been reunanimously, you know, codified in 2008.

I mean, so this is a very complicated issue, and it is a it's it's legal, it's aesthetics for the city, it's public involvement, it's neighborhoods.

Um, there's so many pieces to it.

And so I I sincerely appreciate the council's commitment to take this very seriously and to say that this needs to be a long, thoughtful process, and the public has to be engaged.

They have been so far.

We have to give them that opportunity again.

Right.

Um, is there an opportunity for our friends at St.

Houston and our friends at the billboard teams to sit together to look at a potential draft ordinance?

Yes, and I would say that we did meet in it last fall, and since then we have been asking for proposed language, we've been asking for sample agreements from other cities, um, and we we have not been provided that information.

So we are willing, um, and we have been trying, and we're still willing.

Okay.

Uh Councilmember Flickinger, you're in the queue.

Thank you, Chair.

I just wanted to push a little more on what uh mayor pro Tim spoke about.

I mean, obviously, this isn't a surprise.

Uh y'all have had discussions.

Is there any number of swap that would be acceptable to you?

I you know, I love Houston, so I want the best deal.

I want the best deal.

I want better than what St.

Petersburg got.

Okay, are you can you're able to give me a number?

I I am not comfortable.

I'm really not comfortable settling on a number because there are so many other pieces to that number.

It's not just a swap, it is um, I think it would be really um unfair for me to sit here and agree to a swap when I've not seen the locations of swaps.

I don't know what neighborhoods are impacted.

That would be a disservice to the public input of the process.

So I need to see a lot of information before I would give you a magic number, but I can tell you that we would want better than what we've seen around the next.

I mean, eventually it's gonna come down to a number, right?

I don't know that.

I don't know if something that we've pulled because there's either there's either the status quo a council member.

I think she says she's uncomfortable with coming up with a number, so let's okay.

That's fine, but I mean you've got the status quo today.

And you can have the same number, or you're you're gonna be willing to accept the not necessarily because status quo based on the current sign code means that eventually these billboards age out.

That's how it was designed.

So I'm not to me they're always going down.

But today, we re- today, if we have this conversation and we agree to something, we reset that clock.

Okay.

Thank you.

Councilmember Ramirez.

Thank you, madam chair.

Thank you, Andrea, for for your comments and thank uh City Houston for everything that you all do for Houston.

I um um I'm gonna ask this a little differently from from uh uh the way Council Member Flickinger did.

Is the reduction, whatever the number is, there's a reduction in static traditional billboards, a plus uh if if we have to uh get some number of digital as well, but a larger reduction.

Is that is that a plus?

Yes or no?

And and why do you think that?

So reduction is always uh always a plus.

I think it's what does that look like?

There are already at least 50 to 60 structures that would be coming down as part of the realignment.

I know um, like I said, that was mentioned, there's the city and the state have to agree to that relocation.

So that's that's again, y'all need to look at that a little bit carefully.

Um so we're already going to see a reduction, we believe, through the aisle for through the alignment, uh realignment.

So beyond that, yes, further reduction is is a positive.

Again, I want to be so thoughtful because I've heard so many different pieces and and not real solid information.

So there's gonna be some that stay static, there's gonna be digital.

The digital won't necessarily be on urban roadways.

That's brand new information.

So I would wonder, okay.

So when we're swapping and we're doing all of this, we're reducing, but what are we what are we bringing to the neighborhoods and the public space?

That's what I would want to see.

I would want to know locations.

It's not just an even exchange.

Okay, and last thing, uh, and I'll let you go is uh so we've heard uh from uh the presenters that uh there's no reduction in safety.

Um council member Alcorn has suggested their studies that say just the opposite.

Are you familiar with some of those studies that say safety is affected?

And could you share those with the council?

Yeah, absolutely.

So I think if we look at the most recent study, which I would encourage, yes, the more recent studies are probably the more accurate given all of the changes in tech and tiny computers that we're carrying with us all the time.

So 2025 was the TTI study, the Texas AM uh Texas Transportation Institute study, which wasn't going to come out and outright say and condemn digital billboards, but did acknowledge at least a 30% increase in distraction for people driving by.

And to Council Member Alcorn's point, when you're on a highway and you're going 70 miles an hour, one to two seconds additional looking, and if you're and if we're talking about public safety and we're trying to get people to look over a little longer, we are increasing risk and we are increasing the risk of fatalities, and we have the most dangerous roads in the nation.

That is we don't need a study any more studies on that.

Thank you.

Thank you, Andrea, for all you're doing.

Um the signs that are coming down anyway, potentially this I-45, the the ones that are being displaced, they said they absolutely can put those up.

You've got a little bit differing information or maybe some more regulations that need to be that explain more about just through the sign code, how billboards are coming down and kind of the agreement that was reached or settlement that was reached years ago and how billboards are coming down anyway, right?

So as the billboards age out or or are um just you know destroyed, either it's through a storm or it's just sheer, you know, kind of wear and tear.

Um, the reconstruction of the billboard, it can't, it can't have a value that's higher um than what was existing, right?

And so the cost of reconstructing it.

Now, when we hit Hurricane Barrel, I will tell you one of the hardest components of this, and you as the regulators of this industry, the city, right, is enforcement.

So when Barrel came through, we lost a lot of stress, there was a lot of structures that came down, and I was getting calls left and right.

People were angry because they were getting re-erected so quickly.

How are they getting that permit to put that back up again so fast?

So enforcement is really challenging.

So I want to put that out there for one.

And two, it was them saying that the value to reconstruct the structure was was less than what it was originally, and that is that is their word against whomever is on city staff trying to enforce it.

So the idea though is that over time, that's the way that the sign code was written, that these structures would eventually time out, they would age out.

And I think that you could talk to many in legal, former legal, and they would have that same opinion of how the sign code was structured and designed.

Councilmember Davis.

Thank you, madam chair again.

Uh thank you for your response and certainly for your work and efforts to pass regarding the the city and the signage.

But just a question.

Um I heard your responding regards to the number of signage.

So I want to know, I like to ask the question.

Do you oppose digital signing?

So, yeah, Cena Houston's position has been opposing digital signage.

That doesn't mean that.

I mean, so in the sign code currently, on premise businesses can have digital signs, right?

So there are not on premise, so signs that are on a on the premise of a business, right?

They can currently have digitized signs.

There's a in churches, right?

So there's a lot of restrictions that are involved, which by the way, they will they will come knocking for additional.

If we open up that sign code, that's gonna be a part of it, right?

They're gonna want more.

Um, so there are pieces of the sign code that do have the digitized piece for on premise signs, but not for the ones that block our view of the skyline.

That's not new digital billboards is what our sky is.

Right, that type of thing.

Yeah, as a pastor, I but you know, I get it.

So uh so but um with that, you're not you you opposed to it from that perspective.

You'd say you've had talks.

But yeah, so I'm I'm sorry, I'm gonna actually can I add to that a little bit.

So the opposition is less, it's a little bit of the digitized, right?

But it's more about the fact that it resets that clock because once those digital structures come up, they are permanent.

Which is right now, the sign code is designed so that the structures that are there, the static signs will eventually age out.

If we replace those with digital, it's forever or however long.

I don't know, unless you all have a sunset of some kind.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

So you have been in discussion that you said earlier with, you talked with the sign companies, uh, you've had talks previous.

We we have come to the table and we have asked for what was going to be the proposal for Houston.

Okay.

So are there any benefits to digital science, in your opinion?

So when we talk about reductions and we talk about additional um elements that other cities have received, so caps, you know, on the on the number that can be erected, um, setbacks, sizing.

So I'm from Baltimore.

Baltimore has digitized signs.

They are smaller than our billboards, they're set back pretty far from the freeway, and they're smaller.

So other cities, major cities may have them, but again, it's what comes what comes with that agreement.

And of course, you do know the the and I can also test to that, because living in a city, Chicago, and I, you know, but you also keep in mind Houston is 607 square miles of city, right?

So the benefits and the conditions of cities are different.

Every city is different, and Houston's unique, so we want our own, we want our own deal.

Right, thank you.

Thank you so much.

We're gonna go ahead and move to our next speaker.

We appreciate you being here.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Francisco Sanchez to be followed by Ashley Grigsby.

Francisco Sanchez, okay, Ashley Grigsby.

Good afternoon, Mayor Tim, Vice Chair, and the members of this committee.

My name is Ashley Grigsby, and I have served on the Scenic Houston board for over 20 years, including serving as chairman in 2023 and 2024.

I'm a native Houstonian.

I was born and raised here, and I work in the commercial real estate development business.

First, economics.

The city does not share in billboard advertising revenue.

It collects only the modest permit fees.

The real financial benefit flows through to the private operators and the landowners.

So this is not a meaningful new revenue source for Houston, and we should be very clear about that.

Second, public benefit.

Billboards can be a useful advertising tool, we all agree, and small businesses already have access to them today.

What's being proposed is not about access, it's about changing a long-standing policy to allow digital billboards, which are brighter, change frequently, and are designed to capture attention in a very different way.

On emergency messaging, we already have strong systems in place, from text spot dot boards to wireless emergency alerts.

Digital billboards don't create that capability.

Houston reduced billboards by 86% over four decades through careful, transparent policy making and broad engagement.

This proposal has not yet followed that same path.

We're not saying never, and we're not saying no, but a change of this magnitude deserves thorough analysis and public input.

We respectfully ask that you just slow down and make sure we get this right for Houston's long-term future.

Thank you.

Thank you for your comments and for being here today.

Next speaker is Dominic Maizot.

I don't see him.

Hello, Alex.

Hello there, good afternoon.

Committee, council members, thank you for giving me some time today.

I appreciate it greatly.

Uh I'm Alex Lopez Negret, and uh my wife Kathy and I built Lopez Negative Communications 40 years ago out of our townhome in A.

Leaf, and we've seen a lot of change in the city.

Today we are among the largest independent Hispanic-owned and independent agencies in the country, and we're still very proud to call Houston our headquarters and our home.

I come to you as a marketer today, purely as a marketer, and certainly a citizen and the resident of this great city.

Communicating with the public is our business.

What's different about us, I'd like to think, is that we are as beholden to deliver for our clients as we are to deliver for the communities that we come from and represent.

We fervently believe that when our work, well done, creates better informed, more empowered, smarter consumers and residents.

For that reason, we have always considered outdoor far more than just the medium.

It's a communications tool, as you all have mentioned and discussed.

Our clients still consider it one of the most effective tools to reach the right people, to move goods and services, and to drive power jobs, the economy, and tax revenue.

We've used it for clients, small and large, Bank of America, HEB, The Rockets, the Astros, Museum of Fine Arts, Baylor College of Medicine, and for other uh entities that are much closer to the heart of the community, like the Alzheimer's Association, FEMA, and uh the 2020 census.

Simply, it's about reaching people when and with what matters the most at that moment.

My concern is this.

And we've it's been discussed today.

Houston is one of the last major American cities without digital billboards on its streets in the city.

Today digital outdoor coverage is limited to the suburbs and the city itself is dark.

We've also discussed that.

Right now, we are hosting the world with a FIFA World Cup.

Every other host city has digital out of home to serve its sponsors, but also most importantly to communicate with its visitors.

Every one of them, every city, but Houston is the exception.

My point is very simple.

This technology brings the outdoor industry into the 21st century.

The accuracy, the timing, the flexibility to reach the full breadth of who Houston actually is and what its population needs to know at the right moment.

When an emergency hits, these boards carry critical messages in real time.

Go ahead and wrap up.

No, thank you.

The health financing children, they alert a natural disaster for a city that knows what a store means, that is really very important.

As a Houston native and a business owner whose livelihood is helping other businesses grow, I do urge you to have this discussion.

Bring Houston into the 21st century and put us on par with cities we compete against every day.

Our community deserves this.

Our community deserves the dynamism that this new medium offers us.

Thank you.

Thank you, and thank you for your work with the city on our census.

Very front.

Thank you.

Councilmember Ramirez is in the queue.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Alex, for your perspective.

I appreciate that.

I'm just curious, as someone who who creates advertising, when you create advertising for a billboard, something that's gonna be adjacent to a roadside.

Do you do it differently with the thought in mind that people aren't gonna be able to look at it very quickly, or is it just like any other ad?

Yeah, thank you, Councilmember.

We're very we're very methodical and very OCD when it comes to how we design outdoor.

Uh we believe that less is more.

We believe that very quick, simple messaging, sometimes no more than seven words is the way to go.

So, yes, sir, we we're very, very judicious about what outdoor looks like and what uh uh purpose it serves.

We do design differently for digital than we do for outdoor because again, it's it's fast, so it has to be really simple, an easy read, not distract.

Thank you.

Yes, sir.

Thank you for being here.

It's my pleasure, my honor.

Next speaker is Omar Is Farr.

Omar is Farr.

Gloria Zentina Anne Lintz.

Hello, Miss Lynz.

Hi, thank you.

I was afraid to sit down.

I'm at 5'2, I'm not sure I can see over.

Um I'm here today just as a citizen, um, and I wanted come because I am very, very far from an expert on billboards, unlike a lot of the people who are in the room.

Uh, but I have watched this as a part of the quality of life coalition over uh several years now, and watched colleagues grapple with what I believe are really tricky, tricky issues.

Um because it's it this very complicated situation, it's complicated legally.

We have federal, state, local rules, and it's complicated, frankly, factually.

Some questions that you all have already brought up today, I think are important.

Uh, and that's what I'd like to do is just do some very quick, and I'll talk as quickly as I can to say I think these are questions we could all benefit from getting answers to.

How are the conversions really going to interact with freeway expansions?

I know that Lee said uh that they have a right to move those boards.

I think that needs to be checked.

Where to uh there was a position in the in the slide packet saying we're not gonna put digitals in anywhere but commercial industrial areas.

We are an unzoned city.

How can we be sure that digitals are not going to be looming over people's houses or beaming into their apartment windows?

Um neighborhoods change.

Look at Edo.

How are the conversions going to interact with our existing amortization program?

One of the things that several of you and and uh Andrea from Scenic talked about.

Boards that are coming down in a short period of time, we need to be very careful with.

We don't want to count those.

We don't want to trade a short-lived board for something that is gonna live for a very long time.

And we need to figure out what those numbers are.

We need to get a much broader view than we can get in a quick afternoon conversation on safety.

I know enough about studies, and from your questions, I know that you know enough about studies to know that context really matters.

Who did it?

Who paid for it?

Exactly what was the context.

They are, I suspect we're gonna find that the conclusions are varied and they're a lot more subtle than one-liners on either side of this discussion.

We need to understand that Houston driving is can I just a little go ahead and rep that Houston driving is very different than most other cities, and we all travel enough to know that.

Is it responsible to add more digital distraction given the environment we actually operate in?

Finally, how real are the public benefits?

I take so seriously the comments that you offered about about public safety, and I think there clearly are some benefits, but they're not in operating fees.

That has to be a wash to the city.

And I'm skeptical of billboards as an economic development tool.

I'll tell you a real economic development problem, and that's the way our city looks from the airports, especially as you come in.

If this situation can be used as a tool to ameliorate that very real problem, we should talk about it.

But if it's gonna make it worse in the city, we shouldn't do this.

Thank you.

Councilmember Elkhorn.

Thank you, Anne, for coming.

And we we're gonna roll the tape and we're gonna get every one of those questions answered because all very good, especially on the amortization.

I mean, yeah, you don't want to like take down a billboard that was coming down anyway.

And I really um really agree with you on the airports.

And you know, that's that's everybody's first introduction to Houston.

Nobody comes to a city for the billboards, I'll tell you that much.

But um, anyway, well, thank you for those questions.

All very good, and we'll make sure that we get answers.

Thanks, Councilmember.

Appreciate it.

Thank you for being here.

Mel Turnquist, Mel Turnquist.

I'm also vertically challenged.

Um, good afternoon.

I want to thank you for the opportunity to speak about the importance of digital technology and the recovery of at-risk missing children.

As you said, my name is Mel Turnquist.

I'm the CEO of Texas Center for the Missing, and we're Houston's Amber Alert provider, and I can talk to you a little bit about dynamic message signs and weas uh if you're interested in that.

Um, since 2014, we've partnered with Clear Channel Outdoor and a targeted digital billboard campaign to bring home missing Houston children.

Currently, we're highlighting 15-year-old Deborah Moore who went missing last year when she was just 14 years old.

Deborah's one of the more than 7,000 children reported missing across Greater Houston each year.

To date, digital billboards have recovered 20 Texas children, including three kids right here in the Houston area, one of which is 16-year-old Evangelists whose mother is certain the billboard is why evangelists is now back home safe.

It's also recovered 15-year-old Thalia Masias, eight-year-old Rebecca Attiles.

And we are so grateful for all of these recoveries, which would not have been possible without digital billboards and the instant communication this technology provides.

These stories are just a few of the 20 Texas kids recovered by this multi-year cross-jurisdictional partnership.

The use of digital billboards has become essential in our efforts to bring children home because it works.

Imagine how much more we can achieve with this kind of coverage inside the city of Houston.

With your help, we will reunite more families.

Last year, over 6,000 new missing child cases were filed in Harris County alone.

Twenty-eight percent of all missing Texas children come from our region right here in Greater Houston.

We, as a local Houston area nonprofit, activate Amber Alerts for Houston, and we're in a unique position to see the power of digital technology.

We provide 24-7 reunification resources to searching families.

We train law enforcement on emergency alert activation, and we provide internet safety training to Houstonians.

And if anyone needs our services, they're accessible via our website at Center for the Missing.org.

These digital billboards support all of our programs, and expanding this life-saving tool into Houston could bring more children home.

And I know y'all were talking a lot about percentages, but this represents anywhere from 100,000 to 800,000 worth of expense.

We would never be able to purchase.

Thank you very much for being here.

We appreciate your comments.

You bet.

And just as an FYI, we is and digital mess dynamic message signs do not include images, and we know images are what bring people home, so they are not equivalent.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Joanne Lewitzer is online.

She's still on.

She's ready.

Joanne Lewitzer, we're ready for you.

Star 6 to I meet.

See if we can go work with her.

Robert Williams.

Robert Williams.

Hello, Mr.

Williams.

Hi.

Thank you, madam chair and vice chair and council members.

It's an honor to be with you today.

And thank you for allowing me to speak.

I'm Bob Williams, and I'm the chairman and CEO of an organization called Grand Chance Rescue and Bob's House of Hope.

Bob's House of Hope is the first and only safe house in the country for boys and young men that have been sex trafficked.

And I don't have to tell you that you have a huge problem here in Houston.

We've had a partnership for many years with Claire Channel.

And the digital billport campaign that they've donated to us has resulted in over 900,000 impressions.

We've rescued 10 young men as a result of those campaigns.

It's resulted in 15 new partnerships with partners that had no idea that boys are sex trafficked.

The reality of this, and I get it's a complicated issue, but I subscribe to the fact that there's a solution for every problem.

And I would hope that the parties could work together because what I care about is victims.

For the first time in history, 51% of missing children are boys.

We have to educate the public about what's happening and what an epidemic this is in this country today.

In every report that you read, it says that the data is a solid 40%, but that it is so underreported that it could be in excess of 50%.

Because the reality is boys just don't come forward right away.

We know in Dallas from our street teams that boys have been brought in already from other other parts of the country to be sex trafficked during FIFA.

We know it's happening here in Houston.

A few weeks ago, I was with your police chief.

I mean, you guys are ready to go.

But my point is that education and awareness is critical.

We partner with the Center for Missing Exploited Kids.

We partner with every organization, and the campaigns from the digital campaigns have been critical to us in rescuing victims.

And I know that all of you here care about our children, and you are the voice of our children and the innocent.

And to me, it's critical that we work together to figure out a solution because we can together advertise these things.

We can get the word out, but most importantly, we can educate the public.

It's if you see something, say something.

And that's why I believe that they're so important.

And I'm very proud of the fact that we rescued 10 boys through that last campaign.

Claire Channel's doing another campaign for us right now.

I wish with all my heart that Houston was involved, but around the state of Texas, around the FIFA World Cup in 70 cities, and we're really proud of that.

Our phones are bringing off the book.

And so I just thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today.

I hope that everybody on both sides of the aisle.

Just take a sincere look about the amount of good that can be done by these billboards.

And I get the money, I get all of it.

But what they did for us was over a million dollar campaign.

I mean, they should make some money.

So we're very grateful.

And again, I appreciate the honor to speak in front of you today.

Thank you.

Thank you for being here and for the work that you're doing.

Thank you.

Next speaker is Nicole Christoph.

It's a high chair.

Which I appreciate.

Thank you very much.

My name is Nicole Kristoff.

I am the chief operating officer at Crime Stoppers of Houston.

For over 40 years, Crime Stoppers has helped keep our community safe by solving nearly 40,000 crimes in this city in Harris County alone.

We have partnered with Clear Channel on static billboards and on digital billboards throughout my tenure with Crime Stoppers, which is nearly 15 years.

So I have firsthand experience on the benefit of actually both the static and the digital.

The first digital campaign that we did with Clear Channel, that case was solved in less than 24 hours, one day.

But with our partnership with Clare Channel, especially with the digital, we are able to help families get a wanted poster up out to the community where they actually now have a voice.

Someone is putting a face to the name, and that's extremely important and is often overlooked.

Thank you for your time today.

Thank you for being being here.

We do have uh Council Member Flickinger in Q.

Irrespective of the conversation on the billboard, just want to thank you for the work you do at Crime Stoppers.

Thank you.

I love I love what I do.

Councilmember Ramirez.

Thank you, Nicole, for being here as well.

Appreciate everything that Crime Stoppers does for the community.

Curious to know, so when uh Crime Stoppers does a digital ad campaign uh to try to help catch someone, um, are there other methods that are used to get the same message out, or is it just strictly billboards?

Well, of course, there's other methods.

We have a database of over 200 media partners that we send information to, but that is dependent upon somebody clicking a link to view um a news article or that sort of thing.

Whereas with the digital space, you're getting those eyes all day, every day, as long as that ad is up.

And I I've talked to families that they just don't feel like anybody recognizes that their loved one mattered, and to be able to have this large um scale recognition of number one that this person existed.

Number two, there's somebody out there that did it, and we need to get them off the streets.

All right, again, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for being here.

Next speaker is Mayesha Coulter.

Hello, Maisha.

Good afternoon.

Thank you for um giving me this time.

My name is Maisha Coulter, and I'm the CEO of ABDA, aid to Victims of Domestic Abuse.

ABDA works to end family violence by providing free legal representation, uh, trauma counseling, victim advocacy, and preventive education to survivors throughout our community.

Last year alone, we supported more than 5,600 adults and children who were impacted by domestic violence, and filed nearly 1800 new family law suits representing survivors of domestic abuse both in Harris County and Fort Penn County.

One thing I've learned in this work is that victims cannot ask for help if they do not know that it exists.

That is why our partnership with Clear Channel Outdoor has been so important.

For more than a decade, Clear Channel has donated billboard space that allows us to place life-changing messages directly in front of people who may be experiencing abuse.

Those messages tell survivors they are not alone and that free help is available.

Digital billboards have made that outreach even more effective.

They allow us to quickly update messages, target different audiences, display information in multiple languages, and respond to emerging community needs.

For our organization with limited resources, this flexibility is invaluable.

Domestic violence remains one of the most serious public health issues that we we face in our nation, um, in our city, in our in our community.

Everyday survivors are making decisions about their safety and the safety of their children.

Sometimes a simple message on a billboard can be the first step toward reaching out for help.

As someone who sees the impact of these messages firsthand, I encourage you to consider the positive role digital billboards can play in connecting residents with critical services, strengthening public awareness, and supporting organizations like ABDA that work every day to make a Houston a safer place.

Thank you so much for your consideration.

Thank you for being here and for your the work that you do.

Councilmember Davis, you're in the queue.

Yes.

Yes, thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Maesha, coming.

Just a question in regards to your organization that I think I was made more aware of.

You work with the Harris County Truth and Assessment Center.

We do.

Yes.

So our so our work is directly representing survivors of domestic abuse in family court, so we're working with them in regard to cases where um children have been abused as a result of uh.

Yeah, because that that one organization that I became more familiar with and really addressing the children's sexual, which most people don't really know all of the information with it, but I I did recall your organization.

Thank you for coming.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Tim Anderson.

Tim Anderson.

To be followed by David Mills, Madam Chair.

I just wanted to be sure I was on the record.

I'm a resource witness for Clear Channel.

I don't need to speak.

Thank you.

Thank you for being here.

David Mills.

David Mills.

Thank you.

Good afternoon.

David Mills here.

I come to you as the founder of the Cayley Mills Foundation and also as a grieving father.

Um nine years ago, I lost uh my 16-year-old daughter in a car crash in Harris County.

And uh she was riding in the car with three teenagers.

Um, and uh she was the only one that was injured.

The other three walked away with no injuries.

She was not wearing her seatbelt.

So the Kaylee Mills Foundation was founded to prevent other families from having to go through the same tragedy that that my family went through, and um we do that by raising awareness.

Uh we've become the leaders in the United States for raising awareness for seat belts.

Uh, this is a cause that that uh started right here in this area, and um our billboards are a big part of that, and the digital billboards, especially uh thousands of these billboards go up all over the United States, and um it's very effective because it has a it has a photo of my my beautiful daughter uh and her big smile, reminding people, buckle up, someone loves you.

And who do you buckle up for?

And so it's it's very targeted to the audience that that it means the most to, which is drivers on the road.

And uh we've gotten I know that I know that these campaigns over the last nine years have saved countless lives, both at the local level and the national level.

And um it just here in in the Houston area, 300 over 300 uh families a year are left to grieve the loss of a loved one from a car crash.

And it's one of the most dangerous cities in the United States for car crashes, and that's almost one every day.

Um I can tell you with certainty that um the billboards do make a difference.

And um I just wanted to ask that you guys consider um you know what what uh these digital billboards mean, not just not just to uh my family, but but to the community and all those families out there that um that we're trying to prevent these tragedies from happening too.

Thank you.

Thank you for your comments and for being here today.

Thank you.

Joanne Lewitzer online.

We'll try it again.

Star 6.

She's trying.

I don't know if it's gonna work.

It may be our technology, but um, we definitely will um reach out to her and get her comments for the record.

David Malsby.

I uh don't come here to argue.

I come to share a perspective of the last 17 years of my life dedicated to serving America's veterans and their families who are coping with combat related post-traumatic stress.

What most people do not know and understand, even in the month of June, which is PTSD Awareness Month, we are losing up to 44 veterans every single day as to suicide, addiction, and overdose.

Forty-four every single day.

Um, through these years, we've built a track record of bringing veterans in and not only saving their lives, but also seeing some dramatic life trajectory change.

All that happens because of the goodwill of the people of the city of Houston.

Um, for instance, one veteran uh from Houston served post-9-11, came home, struggled in the reintegration, homeless on the city streets of Houston for six and a half years.

In 2000 or 2020, he came to Camp Hope.

He graduated the program a short time later, he came on staff where today he serves helping other veterans rebuild their lives.

Um two years ago, he bought his very first home.

That's dramatic life change.

That's positive impact to the city.

I can contrast that, unfortunately, that I also get phone calls from family members who hear about us and reach out to us after their loved one has become a statistic.

I say that because to me it's gut-wrenching, and it's one of the worst days of my life when I get those kind of phone calls.

We cannot afford to be the best kept secret in town.

We are doing something here in Houston that no one else in the world is doing, and we have great success.

Uh, we appreciate it very much the partnership with Clear Channel and Outfront, helping us get the word out.

Uh the digital signage and the ability to get our name out there more often and more frequently, obviously is going to help us save and change some lives.

At the end of the day, I'm not sure how you put a dollar amount to that, but I can tell you our beginning was if we could help save one life, it was worth whatever it cost and whatever it took of our time.

So thank you for your consideration uh on behalf of these many nonprofits who uh very much are aided by the services of folks like uh Clear Channel and Outfront.

Thank you for your comments today and for being here.

And next speaker is Esmeralda Ledezma.

Esmeralda Ledezma, Michelle Costa.

I'm with Clear Channel and I'm just a resource today, so I don't need to say anything.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you for being here.

Is there anyone else in the public that would like to speak?

Going once, going twice.

Council members, any other questions, comments, complaints?

Nope.

Oh council member remember.

Since we have a couple of resource witnesses, I'm just curious.

I don't know a whole lot about about the the billboard industry, but is there is there like a regulatory model where a city charges a fee for every image that appears because it seems to me that if you've got six images rotating, six ads rotating, it's actually six ads, different different signs, eight.

I'm sorry, eight, eight different signs.

If I understand the question, you're asking if we pay any city to run an image.

Yes.

The answer is no.

Okay.

All right.

Okay, because I'm just thinking if I have a business and I put a sign on the business, and then I I change it, I switch it out and put up a different sign later.

You know, I I probably incur another another fee, but you're saying that that doesn't happen in the business.

In Houston, um, an on-premise sign does need a permit to change the copy.

Uh an off-premise sign does not.

Okay.

I think the genesis of the question maybe the state has determined that advertising on billboards is very similar to circulars that have been put into newspapers, and those are not that the state has determined that those are close enough to each other that that is not taxed considered taxable by the controller.

So that I think that is derivative down to the cities.

Probably are having to hold that same opinion.

So you're suggesting the states preempted that.

I'm not I'm not gonna go that far.

I'm just saying that that the state obviously has first shot of at uh taxation, and that's what they have to do.

As far as state taxation.

All right, thank you.

Councilmember Flickinger.

Do the cities generate revenue from the permits on it, or is the permits pretty much regulated to the cost of uh compliance?

So there's there's a number of different types of permits for billboards.

There is a construction permit, an electrical permit, there is a um an operating permit that is renewed annually, so the city does make revenue off of that.

Um they also make revenue off the taxes, which I think we had a um from the council member who's who's not here.

Um billboards are taxed as personal property.

Um so generally we're a tenant on on a piece of property where we have a lease with the landowner.

The landowner is taxed as real property advalorum taxes under the tax code.

The billboards are personal property and taxed as such, so very much like the equipment um in a dry cleaner is taxed as personal.

Similar to inventory, uh all that, right?

It's it's structured cost new, less depreciation, and so on a non-digital billboard, call it maybe 150,000 in value versus uh uh a board with two digital panels, it's gonna be in the in the range of you know a million dollars.

Okay, taxable person.

Would our friends at the billboard companies be um amenable to sitting down with our friends at Scenic Houston for a stab at a draft ordinance?

Well, I think the answer is certainly, and I think we've done that.

I've done that myself many, many years ago.

So, yeah, we're amenable to obviously to have conversations with everybody, all stakeholders.

Okay, thank you.

Okay, colleagues.

Uh if there are no further comments or questions, I do want to thank everyone for joining us today and let you know that our next Economic development committee meeting will be on July 15th at 2 p.m.

If you're interested in receiving information on the Economic development committee meetings, you can contact the district A office at District K at Houston TX.gov.

The time is four o'clock, and the meeting is now adjourned.