Welcome.

And we've had a little talk about several subjects, but we're now going to start the meeting.

I'd like to begin with everybody going around.

Bill, if you don't mind, and we can start with you and tell who you are and why you're here or make up a story.

I'm uh Bill Kentus.

I'm on the uh DBW uh staff and a project manager for Trails and Green Place.

Jim Millowitz, uh member board.

Or committee.

Are we a board or a committee?

You're a committee committee.

Committee.

There you go.

He from Palmero, I was a committee member.

Again, apologies for the delay of traffic.

Ryan Gallagher, service planner at Indigo, board member.

Committee member.

I'm Craig Pincus.

I'm a retired person.

I'm the uh acting chairman by virtue of the vacancy that we're going to remedy, I hope, in a few minutes.

And um I want to say thanks to everybody who's here.

I'm very grateful.

Uh Trina Radabush, committee member.

Javen Austin, committee member.

Uh Joe Jarzon, also a committee member.

Just did the pleasant run trails past weekend with uh the kids, so that was fun.

Daniel Heisland, uh, senior project manager at EPW Trust and Realties.

Thanks.

Thanks everyone.

Um, first order of business is approval of a half dozen minutes, it seems like that's because this is our first quorum meeting since last fall, and we've got November 25 has been distributed, December 3.

Trina put together superb minutes.

Uh January and March of this year.

And uh boy, I don't have anything to add or subtract, but if anybody does, this is the time.

Otherwise, let's approve those.

So moved.

Second.

Second, yeah.

All in favor?

I'm unanimous.

Okay, great.

We conducted some business.

Very glad.

Okay, the next thing we need to do is uh elect officers.

All the officers that uh that the ordinance specifies for this committee are chairperson, vice chairperson, and secretary.

The executive committee of this of this committee.

Is charged with maintaining continuity between regular meetings and also taking action where necessary.

The ordinance also says that the actions of the executive executive committee are to be ratified by the full committee when there's an opportunity to do so.

Uh Damon uh, as you know, resigned last year, uh left in December.

Since then I've been acting chair, that's basically half a year, which is due to our lack of quora.

And uh so that office is open, and actually, as far as I'm concerned, we can, you know, we can elect anybody to any office and uh um uh uh just a private remark.

I have been excited by the fact that we've had several members who have communicated their interest, for example, the e-bike issue, and are speaking up.

And to me, this is like a breath of fresh air.

So I'm I'm really excited that people are participating, thinking about what they want to talk about.

And uh that's that's the that's the trend I'd like to continue.

So we can start with chairperson vacancy or anybody got a nomination here that you'd like to make.

I would nominate you, Craig, if you would accept the nomination for sure.

Uh uh, you know, I'm entirely willing to do this job, but don't you think somebody younger than an 83-year-old should be doing this show?

Honestly.

I mean, that's that's the way I felt about it.

Really?

I'm serious.

Joe Biden had that problem.

I think maybe I'm a little better shape, but uh that's what I've been worried about.

I want this committee to get to be as dynamic as possible.

So that's my reaction for what it's worth and and and um welcome other other nominations.

I'm I'm I'm not going to refuse the job if there's a vacuum other nominations.

Go with it.

Huh?

Go with it.

Okay.

Do we need a second on that nomination?

I'll second okay any more there's not one okay all right I give up.

For for vice chairman I would nominate Ephraim.

Yeah.

Who I think brings a lot of energy and perspective to this committee.

And he looks very business like so that would fill the role.

I'll second.

All right.

And I will not oppose.

Are there any other nominations?

No.

So Ephraim's it by acclamation right?

You're only a heartbeat away.

I would recommend that you guys do take a vote on each individual office.

Okay.

As you normally would right but we had a uh for a second chair right take a vote.

Okay please vote.

All in favor of Ephraim Paul Meryl.

Same for the chair.

Yes all in favor of the nomination of Craig as uh chairman I in favor aye I are we okay now Adam yes okay we still have a secretary to vote for but Joe has anybody want that you have been screaming so well.

I thought you were sort of secretary for life for life I don't know about that this is not the Supreme Court.

I'll make a motion I want to say Joe has done a really good job and I mean a really good job.

Well thanks for filling in for me last month of course all right so motion I'll be the secretary.

I'll say we can do that vote.

Do we have to officially vote on Joe now?

All in favor?

I forget okay I guess it would up secretary conducting this you don't have to have a deal with that shall we that's what we're sure you want it.

I'm catching on the hallway he was hanging out of the thing I say be nominated I wonder if Daniel could give us an update on uh where we are in terms of new appointments with the parks department well I've got an order Jim that's if it's okay I didn't like it.

Well the next item of business I was it's in the agenda is the trail uh friendly business program which has been rattling around now for a year solid um the story of it is that um I of course have been uh beating the drum about the need for uh restrooms and water for people using the greenways, and um the exciting thought about this kind of a program is you don't have to build anything, it's already there.

What you have to do is get people to say, yeah, we're in uh we welcome trail users.

Um in the interim, while this is been pending, um, the recreational user statute was amended in the last session of the legislature, and my understanding of the amendment, though I'm not going to give legal advice, I resigned from the bar.

Um my view is and the view of the people who championed the change in the legislation was that it would protect businesses who join in a plan to welcome users so uh uh shield them from liability, and it seems to me that's an inducement to join.

Um the um the talk about it preceded the first draft.

The first draft came from Gretchen, and I wanted to talk about Gretchen who left DPW early this month, and it maybe is not generally known.

I didn't get an announcement.

I I got a um an auto reply when I sent one of my uh little emails around, and it said she's no longer with DPW, and I found out she's with parks.

And um I think maybe from what I've heard, Gretchen's job is officially open at DPW, but I don't know.

I think that's it, so if it years, it's a posted opening.

Yeah, so one of the things I mean, Daniel has just been terrific, and Bill carrying things forward and listening and and answering questions, been terrific.

Um, and but I wonder is there any is there any um link communication link that's official for the moment between the committee and DPW, even though we report to parks still because the ordinance still needs to be amended to change the responsibility.

Is there a channel?

Um you guys are it or I think I we're the channel.

I would say you can reach out to us.

Um I've been the primary representative kind of DPW here, and big shout out to all for all projects that he does in the meetings, but I would say like for questions in the interim, y'all can reach out to us.

Yeah, I would say you can copy me, but I would say it's for sure.

I mean, and that's like you know, prior to Gretchen uh moving on to parts, you know, you've done uh a lot of work in being in this committee and leading it, so that's kind of what our leadership would expect your communication to flow through Daniel.

I think it's fair to say.

Well, I write to them all the time, and it's a burden, but he he bears it, and and um be interested to see what is done in filling that position.

Okay, so we're communicating with Daniel, but uh while Gretchen was in her job at DPW, she did a draft of a trail friendly business plan, AI generated document that had a lot of points to it.

I uh that were valid, that needed to be taken into account.

Uh I did a rewrite, I can't help it, after all my years of practice, and and uh that was the thing that's been circulated, and we've had some talk.

Uh Shabon's made an outreach right to Fort Wayne.

Is that did I get it wrong?

Yeah, and talked about that somewhat.

And um and it's just been knocking around, and I don't, I don't think it's very feasible for us to do a vote on updated drafts if we could get an approval of concepts or some um discussion about what's needed that isn't addressed, something like that.

I mean it's gotta stop somewhere because it's it's too complicated, really, and what we want is something that'll um that we hand off to the mayor's office to DPW, to the council, to parks, and say, how about the authority, the the exact part of city government that ought to adopt this thing is not clear to me.

I'm not sure what it would be.

Maybe it's the council adopts an ordinance, maybe it's a program adopted by DPW.

I don't know, but I've always believed that it needed something.

Is this committee doesn't have the power to create anything except recommendations, comments?

So that's the background, and uh I don't know if we can get going on where we were.

You want to start talking about this?

You've you, yes.

You've had the most uh the largest number of comments about the draft, and also you did the investigation with the Fort Wayne people.

And uh oh, one thing I'll say is on the draft, you can forget all of the cell stuff at the end.

It's it's silly, and it's not a plan, it's it's it's a way to promote the plan, and I I think we don't know how to promote the plan until it gets a home.

Go ahead.

So yeah, it's been a minute or a couple months, probably since I've looked at uh the latest draft of the plan, so I apologize for that.

But um I think back to our past discussion, some of the key takeaways have been like something about the way Fort Wayne does it, is it's something that's not administered by city government, right?

That's a trail organization outside of city government that's administering the plan.

Um, there aren't very many like heavy inducements that they use to get people to participate.

It's highly voluntary.

Um, but it helps that they have a what one of the success factors seems to be that they have someone as part of that trails organization that um manages the plan, or not the plan that manages the program and manages the relationships with businesses and keeping the map updated and that kind of thing.

Their requirements are pretty um minimal.

Um if I recall, you know, we've talked about different kinds of amenities that we'd like to see, but uh their floor is basically one of those amenities, right?

Either water or bathrooms or maybe power charging stations, something like that, but keeping it a very low um barrier to entry.

Um, but that's yeah, that's what I remember on up and from the conversation that I had with um big the big takeaways from the conversation, right?

Fort Wayne, yeah.

Their website makes it clear that they're independent of the city, didn't um I got a question for you, man.

Um trailways or consortium, could it be the parent of something like this?

I think there's I think there's ongoing discussion in terms of there are lots of, I think, beginning of our conversation, there are a lot of fractured interested people in whether it's biking the trail or walking the trail or building a trail or getting connected or having one because they don't have anyone near them.

So I think we're at this early part of the ecosystem where we're um lots of different ideas in terms of how that manifests itself.

I do think at some point there will be there needs to be some form of conversation based on models that have been used throughout the community in different ways, whether it's the parks and the parks Foundation, Friends of the Friends of the park.

So I do think when there's a scarcity of resources available to do the work that needs to be done, you cobble together a recommended concept on how to do that.

Um, we we went through a similar process.

And it got a good launch, but then it hit headwinds because there the mechanism was a collective impact model mechanism kind of ran out of gas.

Certain organizations were better at fundraising, and then there became some turpiness to who's raising money for what.

So I think I think part to advance the concept and the idea, we should look and study parallel ideas that have been done to this point.

One of the things that we suggested in the process around the evolution of Road to the White River Vision Plan was that instead of trying to boil the ocean proof of concept on one main body weight.

And in the process of that, began creating some structure that engaged the community on how to do that.

And so that was what that plan was.

The plan then led to there needs to be some form of governance that can actually activate this across multi-jurisdictional authorities that were complex.

And so once the plan was passed, the next task was we need some form of a governance.

And so we put together a task force to make recommendations on what that might look like.

And there was not an appetite, admittedly, and agreeably so, to create a new entity.

It was why not find an existing entity that could broaden its scope.

And to create a specific responsibility that reported to the MPO since the MPO is doing the comprehensive plan that would begin to incorporate but have a technical committee that would advise.

To me, that could put together the plan.

I could, I mean, the plan is solved voluntary stuff anyway.

And I'd love to see DPW fund a job like that.

But if DPW says no, or at least so far they haven't volunteered, how MPO is the exact outfit I thought of going to for a grant.

You're gonna go ahead, Dave.

I mean one thing, just like kind of going back to the plan.

One of the things I appreciate that the Gretchen and D you have put together is it kind of talks about the year one to be a discovery period, and to try and bring together different stakeholders and kind of see um what shakes out from it.

Because there may be a natural partner or like a partner of a partner that has either a particular interest or affinity, or there may be a natural, there may be a natural, like corridor or place to be able to kind of test this out.

And I think that's I don't kind of speaking about, I think what both of y'all are saying, I don't, I don't totally know where it lands, but I like the idea of how the plan is built in a way so that it's designed to have an intentional process to be able to get there.

Like a lot of the questions that y'all talk about is um uh asking the questions about like uh doing outreach to other programs kind of continue to work that y'all put the guns and best practices, put that in one place to be able to determine which organization should run it.

Like that's a really good question, and one that may I could uh the plane calls for putting together organization representatives from different organizations, and that might be something that that they could take on and try and pursue a little bit.

Well, I feel the sense of urgency.

We're gonna have very hot weather soon.

And getting water is a serious matter, and I would love to start on this thing.

I mean, how long do we study?

Um I you know, my idea of a first step is go talk to a business, and the question is who's gonna do that?

And what do they want?

Signage is the thing I think that's gonna cost some money for certain.

And so money is going to be needed.

The businesses are not gonna erect the signation, they're going to stay.

Whoever's the sponsor of this program to I think these are good questions.

I also thought the plane talks about having a gear planning period.

Um, and so I feel like that's those are some of the questions potentially to be answered.

Well, what do you think about asking MPO for a grant?

Um why not?

I think you can.

I mean, I think you or uh it depends on kind of like the the plane calls for a group of people to come together.

Who who is the right who's the right ask?

Yeah, um I was not directly involved, but responsible for some of the outcome of that particular effort.

And so I think there are a couple things that I would I would recognize as common denominators to this process.

One is a lot of the conversations we've had and a lot of the fits and starts we've had are uh the lack of a consistent approach with um enough wind in the sail to propel it, not just off the starting line, but through the process to a finish line.

And so I think part of this is going to be evaluating what is the best path for that, understanding that this transcends.

Part of the reason we did the trailways was we recognized that the rest of the state was building a more comprehensive system than we were in central Indiana, and that there were certain pockets that had advantages that were building at a much quicker pace.

They were using dramatically different tools that to implement that infrastructure that couldn't be replicated in every community, mostly most notably north of us, where the developers it was being built into it.

And there was an equity question that was that was akin to that, and so I think you take a look at the evolution of the MPO, which was primarily a very county controlled under the under the Bauer administration that they've got the language to the regional, that's not without its challenges.

Um, and I think we need to recognize that as we come with a different type of transportation system that wants the same kind of um equity um that automobiles get for personal um uh slower mobility opportunities, we're gonna have to figure out how to do that in a strategic way that works.

Not just theorize and wish that it would happen, but figure that out.

And so my sense was where we landed in the greenways or in the waterways with the MPO, was that they have they have the comprehensive economic regional planning responsibility for all mobility, not just automobiles, but but all the mobility patterns, and so by approaching them as the governance that exists for this and advocating for it to be structured in such a way that there is a clear lane for the various types of mobility was a great place to start, but that you'd have to recognize you're not going to probably get what you want out of the box, you're going to have to follow the format to get to that and get that end result.

And that's just playing at the level of sophistication of politics at work.

So I think that's something that you know.

Um committee that's trying to figure that out.

I think part of our duty is to say, how does this work effectively?

We've had a lot of conversation about what we want.

We haven't had enough conversation on how we make that happen.

And so I think I think that that's probably a fair question.

And as volunteers, it may start with us inviting somebody from the MPO at our next meeting or prior to that, um, to speak to this issue.

What would it, you know, an observation?

We there are people you can talk to that I think would give us some answers on that, and at least when we come back, we have something to digest and share with the public on a pathway forward that might make more logical sense.

Um I also think meeting quarterly, um, that's a very slow process if we wait quarter to quarter for progress.

And so we've got to figure, I think the urgency is something we'll have to figure out in the an entrance process to.

Well, right now we've got zero process.

So, that's there's nothing slower than that, and my big interest is pushing the start button.

And uh, I mean, I've had a little bit of dealings with Miss Gremling, and I thought she was terrific, and I could imagine um meeting with her to start.

We could have a delegation that sets up a meeting instead of having having them come to us, we go to them and say, here it is.

What do you think?

Where would you know?

Yeah, the other part I would talk to is I would I would ask the city who has the jurisdiction for the core county um to equip us with knowledge so that we're not misspoken when we do that, and um because it used to be that the MPO had the veto vote in Marion County, and that no as I understand no longer is the case.

Who would you ask in city government?

I mean, I'm I'm just I'm saying I would suggest, I don't know whether it's the president of the room or somebody else.

I guess I'd be looking at the I can speak to the mayor, as a matter of fact, I have, but uh that doesn't he's you know, it's just shooting the breeze.

The uh I don't know where to start really.

I guess I'd be asking the the staff that works in that lane.

Is there a recommended person we should talk to in the city to coordinate this conversation before we go to the MPO?

What I don't want to do is take the step that is out of bounds in the approach to doing this well.

I would want to follow prescribed step that would give us the opportunity to have success rather than meet unintended obstacles.

I mean, I feel like kind of going back to the planning output together, it talks about convening people to be able, but I think we're talking about two things.

One the urgency of moving forward with getting additional restroom in the trunk and the business program.

The the way I'm hearing it seems a little bit different than what's described in the plan.

And so I just want to raise kind of what that feels like a little bit of a difference.

Um, but I feel like if if y'all would like a recommendation for someone to touch base within the MPO, I'd be happy to work with our team to be able to find that.

And also do see some value in in the plan, it talks about forming a steering committee.

Like y'all's recommendation is forming a steering committee of people from different places, and then maybe that using that as a springboard for to be able to ask some of those questions.

Okay.

I think that would make sense.

Who here would like to be involved in this in this when we get, you'll shoot us some names, a name or two, or something.

If y'all would like, I can please.

I don't I can provide you with contact at the MPO.

I'm not specific.

I and I will let them determine how best to handle it on their ends, but I would be happy to provide you.

Okay.

Uh who wants to be involved in this?

Anyone want to?

Okay.

Anybody else?

I can be dead.

Okay.

Great.

Anybody else?

Ryan.

You don't need a job, but I'll be like this.

Okay.

The executive committee can create can create a business friendly trail subcommittee.

And uh who else I somebody beside Ryan on this side of the same.

Did you have a hand up?

I just played a okay.

Sorry, thank you.

Ryan.

Uh will be our subcommittee for this, right?

Okay.

All in favor?

Wait, wait, what are we doing?

We're creating a subcommittee right now.

Yeah, you want to create a subcommittee.

My restaurants.

You know, yeah, and water.

Trail friendly businesses.

Yeah, I've got to think about this a little bit more.

I got my own views in regards to that.

Well, what's the shape?

Speak up.

My experience is when I'm seeing people on a trail, they're not on there for very long.

They're literally walking around specimen too in order to get back off.

So I don't know if a restaurant is needed for the majority of the users because of that reason.

They're not running 10 miles away.

And I do support the idea of utilizing businesses in order to utilize the restaurants instead of building San Alan restaurants.

Carlos, I got a couple of responses, and I welcome others.

We have information.

I'm sorry.

What did I miss?

Sorry, I was asking if we had any user information that would indicate like are people on there for minutes, hours.

I don't know.

I don't think we have my experience feels different, but well, um I reported uh last year on the survey by that I did with my running group that's 700 plus runners and walkers.

And there was a uh I can republish the results, but 43% of the respondents had been turned away at a business where they tried to use the restroom or got water.

Um that's that's point one.

Uh point two I wanted to make is that the Cronen Colitis Foundation, um, which publishes the we can't wait.

Um app that allows you to try to find a restroom by giving you lists of businesses in your area, which I've talked about before.

Crowns and colitis foundation's whole effort is based on the idea that people with those conditions cannot go very far at all.

So a short distance is a barricade, unless they know that they can get to a restroom if there's an attack of one of those conditions.

That's a motivator.

Um elderly people won't go very far, so you won't see them out because they're afraid, okay.

What if um so the evidence of um the deterrent of not knowing where you can get water or use the facility, is scanty, but there is evidence.

Uh medical conditions, age, uh, my little survey of uh good size organization, 700 runners and walkers.

That's all I've got, but that's something, and that's how I get to where I'm coming from.

Plus, uh, when I go out on these things like Trina, I'm not out for a little while.

I mean, I don't you know, done many 20 mile runs on the monon, for example.

And I find myself as far north as you can go.

Uh water is desperate in hot weather.

You you know, I just have to saying thinking, um, right, but my thing is, it seems like the emphasis is focused on a monon.

I don't think about trails like the Bal Creek Upper Loop Trail.

We don't put a restaurant.

You know, it just runs around a lake.

You know, or Val Creek Trail like I stand.

There's a lot of people on it.

A lot of more fishing is what they're doing.

But uh, you know, I I think about more.

You know, I think the focus and emphasis right now seems to be on a monon and maybe the nickel plate, which are I call urban trails.

But we kind of get into the outskirts where the Fall Creek Greenway, even a White River Greenway.

There's no business out there.

I mean, it it's single type of a levy on the White River Greenway.

Craig, is your is your plan calling for a specific number of restrooms to be built in particular locations?

Or is it just a general alert, sort of of we need some additional restrooms because we have people on trail.

I mean, it seems to me decisions about where to put restrooms and to spend a substantial amount of money to build them ought to be based on data and the surveys of who's using that trail and how many people on that trail would actually use these facilities or need them.

And right now all I have in front of me like you anecdotal ideas from you and other people that suggest maybe we some people do need them, but is that enough to justify spending a million dollars to build restrooms?

This plan doesn't call for building of any restrooms.

It's an alternative to building restrooms.

This plan is by using businesses, sure, I understand it.

Yeah.

I don't know how many people really utilize them.

These trails that assey need a restaurant.

I just don't know.

So I well if I could um you contacted Fort Wayne, we've got somebody close by that I just pulled up their site.

Uh they have their trail map and app, and one of the things that they have is a particular section date.

They they break out the different types of trails by colors so you can understand what the primary user of that trail is.

But they also have a heading that is trail friendly businesses that you click on and it shows you where they are.

They have trailheads where you can park.

They have trail advisories that tell you information whether the water's high or otherwise.

They have parks, restrooms, and drinking water.

Um is a category.

I think all we need to do is have the conversation with somebody who's ahead of this.

W we're talking about it, they've done it.

Um, is to ask what was the process by which your 501c3 organization came up with a plan on why you even listed those categories and why when you click on it, there are quite a few that have been selected.

And so I think I think part of this is a data question.

Um and a process question that it would help us.

How did they build out what when you look at this is a very helpful if if you're a runner, if you're a walker, or if you're a rider, this is helpful on um when you you say if uh it's got the restrooms.

It it shows you where they are that the business isn't and they they put it under a heading of trail friendly business.

So the concept is not is not new.

I think I think something like this um in terms of the data collection and need for data is so amorphous with the size of the community that we live in and and the things that we don't know and what our blind spots are and and so uh I think determining exactly what a trail-friendly business um you know committee or group looks like, uh we might kind of learn as we go.

And so on an urban trail we might have more businesses that are within walkability from the trail that you can use, but then on you know, like the you know, the Fall Creek Trail that goes around the lake.

Perhaps that can look like, you know, I mean I've I've seen not profits and and and foundations, um, um fundraising wings of foundations uh really inspire areas that I didn't even, you know, imagine would become inspired.

And so like those I think a project like this might, you know, have the ability to to look differently, uh, you know, on on different trails.

So, like I said, on the Ball Creek Trail, maybe uh business uh could sponsor a you know, portable colette, you know, that we could place there, or or the other restroom alternatives that we looked into.

Uh and I don't know if that's possible, but yeah, that's just kind of my optimist and optimist thinking is uh I've seen these things kind of uh become, you know, something that we didn't see at the beginning.

Yeah, I'm not and again, I'm not against it.

You know, I don't know.

I think it there's some opportunity there, especially with the Panc.

You know, I think a lot of those uh that fore side community really wants to grow and develop.

Yeah, so I mean they might be interested in it, but I just can't I can just jump all the way into the data.

I just hesitate to like get into analysis process over something like this that's so hard to define, and so I feel like if we start talking to businesses and generating some interest, maybe we'll see people get more interested than we think they would be.

So, Craig, what do you envision as subcommittees doing?

What is their mission?

Well, it seemed to me that the first order of business might be talking to MPO and saying here's the concept and getting feedback about their interest in maybe supporting development of this.

There is a data gathering phase built into the plan, and that's the first year.

As far as the need goes, Carlos, I don't, I mean, one of the things is that people that don't get on a greenway because they know they could have a problem, they're self-censoring, and I don't know how we identify them.

That's why I I turned to um things like the Crohn's and colitis foundation.

Um they are saying it's a necessity for people with their conditions, uh, that it's it's an urgent medical matter for those conditions, and I just accepted that, but nobody, I don't know how we identify how many Crohn's sufferers or irritable bowel syndrome sufferers there are in Indianapolis.

I mean, I we can take a guess at it, but how many of those people are interested in using our green noise?

I don't know.

So this committee want to step forward and acknowledge their own irritable bowel syndrome and talk about it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't even ask people about the medical conditions lab.

I get your point, right?

Again, I'm not arguing with you know every part of me to go all in at this particular moment because it's hard for me to do something.

Well, see, in a sense, if you could get businesses to cooperate with this and being identified as businesses that are friendly to the trailways or the greenways, and will make available their silly, just a no-brainer.

Why not?

It's a good thing.

Yeah, there's if you can get it done, you'll find.

I think you'll find advocates where you didn't even know, you know.

There are probably benefits beyond the specific amenities, uh to building trail friendly business programs if it were to work out just in terms of I remember one of the criteria um during the planning process was um how do we see good uses of trails and one of the good uses that people see is the trails as a means to go somewhere, right?

And I wouldn't expect that a trail friendly business program.

I again I had this addition.

I'm sorry, I thought you were I had this minimalist thought, which was I know for a certainty that the Kroger at 86 and Monon is a de facto stop for work runners and walkers.

Uh on a hot day, you see them going off the trail and in and out.

Uh my wife and I have made many visits to that facility.

The store people are very nice, they're used to seeing people walk in.

One of my thoughts was go to them and say, this is the actual fact you know about it.

How about if you became a little bit official?

That is we we put a sign out here that says restrooms and water.

I don't think anybody on the committee would say that's not a bad uh not a good idea.

Would we?

Yeah, I agree.

I mean, and Carlos, just for your benefit, this committee doesn't have any authority to create this program that you're considering.

All you're doing is making is as I see it, starting a subcommittee to explore and to put together a recommendation that you could make or include in a report or however you want to, whatever vehicle you want to get it to the powers that be to for them to go, hey, we recommend that you should do this from there.

From there, it's up to them.

So all that you're doing here is deciding on, because there's a motion, deciding on whether or not a subcommittee should be created to explore and to create a recommendation.

I guess that program was not designed that way by mistake.

I mean it's connected straight to the monon because of development standards and incentives that existed at the time.

So I mean we can continue to talk about those businesses and see how those types of things can benefit them as well.

But I've been saying what Adam just said succinctly for a year.

We we we can only recommend this, which is why I thought maybe the subcommittee could agree on what to say and then set up a meeting with MPO and say, how about you?

I think that's they're capable of being the sponsor, the parent of this thing, right?

Absolutely.

As I understand, and being the committee's attorney, it's just how I see the operation of this, you create the subcommittee, you do the legwork, make the connections to try to grease the wheels, so to speak, to make it easier for whoever it is that you make the recommendation to say we've already got these things in place, they're already signed up, they're already on board, everybody's cool with it.

We are essentially asking, but you know, making a recommendation to you, parts board, DPW board, whoever you submit the recommendation to.

We think this is a good idea, and we've done a lot of the legwork for you.

At that point, it's up to them to take it and run with it.

I thought I asked that.

I'm completely on board with what I've operated.

I have no problems with that at all.

If I could suggest some goals for the subcommittee that will not all be achieved, but it's study parallel ideas in pure cities in addition to Fort Wayne.

Right?

We've all looked at the great Fort Wayne website.

There are others we should examine.

We should talk to existing trail-friendly businesses and understand their interests and issues.

Kerr is a good example.

I'd also suggest SOM, right?

They have two locations that connect directly to the trail.

They're using that to get business today.

Um we should identify some areas where we might uh run a proof of concept, right?

Definitely this favors more of the urban trails and way less so uh the more remote trails or more nature trails.

Um I think we should identify what inducements would we that could possibly be provided, as well as a list of desired amenities based on what we see other cities doing.

I think it'd be good to identify an asset inventory that can be leveraged today.

Like what do we already have?

What can we use, whether that's like bathrooms and parks along trails today?

Um, and lastly, I think it'd be good, right?

Data, it all comes down to data.

Data's expensive, data's really hard to come by, and we're not gonna be able to gather much of it ourselves as this committee.

Um obviously the Crohn's and Colitus Foundation has some data, but we should see if there's any other data out there that helps us understand uh to what extent lack of water, restrooms, that kind of thing might be a barrier to trail use.

So I would suggest those as some possible charges to the subcommittee.

Well, how about uh somebody moving to create the subcommittee and and and proceed along the lines we've discussed?

It's not something I want to try to restate in a motion.

I make a motion that we form the subcommittee with the folks that have raised their hand, and any additional that would like to join.

Second, out of second, anybody?

Tony, hang on.

Okay.

Okay.

For all those in favor?

I opposed.

Okay, we did it.

It's bad.

That's a good clarification.

So I would mean.

I think it's important as a committee, we're piloting an approach, um, is that for future consideration, we'd be prepared to say what happens when another person comes up with one and wants the same treatment or the same accommodation.

Um, what happens when 10 people show up and want the same process and accommodation?

Um, and it's not it's not a pro or an anti.

I'm just saying I think as a committee, we should we should think proactively how do we do this in a way that is responsible to the community we're we're listening to and to the voices that take the time to present their issues in identifying a process we use, and that's what that's I think I think what you've done in struggling through is say how do how do we solve what you said succinctly um in quarterly meetings where we don't get clarity and then we come back and start the conversation all over again is that probably is identifying a process we need to clarify with some greater specific specificity in order that we make progress on behalf of our community.

I mean it makes sense.

I mean, having these past and current conversations has been helpful just for me to just clarify what we do because at the end of the day, like what you said, we represent the community through our various um appointments, and I'm also all about recommending things and then have the powers made that be, um, decide on how they want to execute it implemented, but um we're all on the recommendation side of things.

I mean, I I could recommend as much as we want to recommend, um, and all those in favor can just echo it and such.

But yeah, I think the process thing is is great.

Um, I'm just curious on just also moving the needle because I I also want to recognize Craig's efforts since he's started to join this committee as well, um, the process and the vision, and I think we've talked about that, and now it's like, well, how not how crazy our recommendations will be, but I mean, we represent the community, so in some ways, how optimistic can our recommendations be, and what recommendations can we put for future projects and ongoing projects?

We obviously we can't control some of the ongoing projects, but we can put some things for future endeavors to say, like, well, to the communities that we represent, this is what we want to see for all of these things moving forward that aligned with the greenways for all uh vision, right?

I think that could be something that's very simple and it clarifies the notion so that we we don't get bogged down too much on the process side of things because I do want to move it forward um too as well.

So from the subcommittee, going to the larger committee, and then hell, I'll be the first one to start the recommendation list, and move that up to um to what you said, counsel, right?

To all the the folks that want that want to hear it that need to hear it, and then that's our role, right?

And I'm and I'm okay with that.

Create subcommittees.

Yeah, each of them are charged with you, make it you gotta write an article, so to speak.

Um, and you that article is due at such and such point, and then we all vote, not we, not me, but vote on if this is a position you want to take, and then the next committee, if there is one on a different issue, makes a separate recommendation, and you can vote on those, accept those, and then conglomerate them all into a report that you then publish to whichever authority.

And it's all and then it becomes public information, right?

Because whatever whatever we release, um it's up to our meeting is being recorded, right?

Actually, but yeah, please go ahead.

Yeah, I don't want to disrupt the conversation.

I know we've got Daniel for about 15 more minutes, and Crassy Creek was uh important.

Do you mind if we pivot and we can always?

I was going to, I just wanted to make sure everyone has spoken on this, which was great.

I mean, it's wonderful.

Um, but uh Trina's right.

I was gonna say when I keep from this done, let's pivot to Daniel, and uh he's got a hard departure at 5 30.

Yeah, channel your inner micro machine man and speak quickly.

Okay, I'm gonna try and speak clearly but quick.

Um, and I do have a couple of slides I've put it down today, so both like um since we don't have a projector here, but also so you can take it home if you have questions and we're back out.

But I wanted to give a few updates today on a couple of different projects, and I'm happy to answer whatever questions that I can.

Um the first, and this was this was requested by Craig, is an update on the Grassy Creek Greenway.

Um this is something that we received funding from approval for funding from the uh Indianapolis MPO recently, something we're excited about.

So I wanted to share some information and answer what talk a little bit about where we are in the process with this, and um, you know, see what sort of questions that we have.

So, um I have a couple of slides here.

The first slide is just a general Grassy Creek Greenway.

What is it?

Uh this has a map that actually shows what, and I'm happy to send John the slides for this too, because I know this is pretty tiny.

Um, but it is a greenway that would connect uh Fort Harrison State Park to the north, up in Lawrence, all the way down to Buck Creek Greenway on the south side.

Um so it would it's it is planned to be a major north-south connector on the east side of town.

And some key facts about this greenway is that there's 64,000 people who are within a mile of this green, of this planned greenway.

There are 19,000 jobs and 23k through 12 schools that are within a mile of this greenway.

And uh I I one thing I'm gonna try and do, and one thing we're trying to do in the plan is talk about like how does this greenway fit into this this bigger vision for Greenways for all?

Um, and some of the things that we feel like are really important and impactful is one this is a greenway that serves a very diverse population with 82% of residents uh being identified as non-white per census data.

Um, and also uh this is a part of town that does not have a lot of active transportation options currently.

So this would be uh what we feel like is a vital north-south active transportation corridor for people to walk, to be able to bike, be able to ride and things like that.

So um big picture, that is what the the Grassy Creek corridor is.

On the next slide on the next page, actually shows well, the actual project itself that is referenced in the news article and what we have funded.

Um because the the actual greenway itself stretches a very long period of a long stretch, and most of our greenways aren't necessarily done all at once, they're done in pieces.

And so what we've done is we have uh proposed a project to be able to connect Grassy Creek Park, where we actually had our December meeting, um, to and the Grassy Creek connector, which will be opening soon, uh, to the Pinsy Trail.

So to be able to kind of create kind of this like this major connector between this amazing park resource that actually they're doing a parks master plan right now to be able to envision the future of this park to the Pinsy, one of our major corridors uh on the east side.

And just to let you all know, the funding source for this is the Transportation Alternatives Program, TAP.

Uh, this is one of the primary major sources of federal funding for smaller projects and nominally automobile projects, uh and also a portion of it from the surface transportation block grant program.

So these are I mean, like this starts getting into our job that the alphabet soup of different programs.

We call one TAP and one STBG, but ultimately like one of the things that our program um it has been quite good at, and when we talk to peer communities, they want to learn from us, is like how we're able to leverage local dollars to be able to get support from dollars in other places.

And this is a project where the city has committed to put 20% of the funding towards this project, and we're receiving a match of 80% to be able to build this uh greenway.

So something that we're excited about.

The uh what I wanted to do, and this is a little bit of an education component, is talk a little bit about like what goes into actually building a greenway, and to be able to try and help those throughout, like where it may be good to be able to get comments and thoughts from this committee, is broadly speaking.

I mean, I put five arrows, and this is like pretty simplified.

Um but to give y'all an idea, like what are some key places that might be good for feedback or thought is one there's the visioning phase.

And this this is like the big picture vision, understanding the city.

This is this map right here.

We have part of part of the overall process that we're doing right now.

But this Grassy Creek Greenway was identified on the full circle master plan, and that's where that's where it originated in.

Also, as part of the Foro Circle Master Plan, the Grassy Creek Greenway is a top priority for a greenway that hasn't been built yet.

So how do we pick this project?

This is partially we looked back at the vision for the city.

We look back at what are the priorities that were identified as part of that plan, and this is one of the key things that came to the top.

We also did consider things like different grants have different scoring mechanisms.

So we also do think through, like, hey, for this TAP program, what are the key factors that that people are interested in?

Like link of trail is a factor that can get you points, access to existing trails, like the Pincy is one that can get you points, potential connectivity to regional, uh, regional localities.

That is also getting points, and since it's so close that that I believe is something that we got points for.

So all those things go into it.

Uh and the segments also uh segments of this trail also scored exceptionally high on our greenways for all uh kind of like metrics for all the values that we've talked about previously, like transportation, equity, the environment, uh, and economic developments because this is a fast running part of it.

So that's that's the visioning phase of the Greenway Creek is largely I put a check mark because that that we have done a lot of that work.

Uh the next we have done some initial scoping.

So this is actually where we go with our design team and our engineers to be able to go out, look at potential routes, and be able to actually put, we actually go back and try and estimate like, hey, how much is this thing gonna cost based on like how many rivers, how many streams do you cross?

Um, how many streets do you cross?

What are crossings look like?

So like uh we have what we call a stamped engineering estimate on what the cost of this project is gonna be.

Um, and and so like that's that's a that's a big picture cost, but it is one that that is official and it's official enough to be able to apply for things like funding for the MPO.

And so I put a check mark there because we we have a stamped engineering estimate for what the cost of this section would look like.

Now, where we are going and where we'll be for the next few years is in the design and permitting section.

This is actually where we go and like actually do the engineering work.

Like we we generally know the costs, sort of like thinking through like what's our what's our budget for groceries in the big picture, what are you gonna get?

Like, now this is the part of the actually go, and you actually develop the engineering plans that are actually built and you review them and you make sure um that they're up to all the standards that you have to.

Um, and then you start doing things like permitting and preparing the project to be built.

Uh and that gets all the information.

This is also a time where we also do public outreach, uh, where we'll talk with usually neighbors in the community.

I think this would be a great time to be able to kind of like bring this committee in to get thoughts.

Um, and this is this is all building up to the next phase, which is construction.

And construction for this project is tentatively aimed at 2031.

2031 is designated by the time period for when we would be able to have the funding per this grant from the MPO.

There's a big physical check, but we don't actually get that physical money right now, like that comes out a later year.

And we bid the project, we construct the project, and ultimately uh it's the opening of the project.

So people actually be able to use it, and we've had a number of openings this year, and we're we are in a hazy future at this point, but looking for like 2032, 2033 for that project.

So there are, you know, one of our goals is to try and figure out the best times to be able to collect thoughts and feedback, and vision is one of the areas where we've tried to collect feedback, design and permitting is when we're what we expect to collect it.

And then also after our trail is open, we get a lot of feedback from people about what they like, what do they not like, and how do we need to continue to evolve trails?

Um, and so that's that is that is an update on the project.

I'm happy to answer sort of any sort of questions that you might have.

Do you have to acquire any property condemning property or all is everything already under city control or license?

I believe there's property acquisition, although I'd have to look at the details on it.

And that is somewhat standard for projects.

So I mean, because that's a good variable as far as what costs might be.

Correct.

A couple questions.

Um, I'm looking at the map here.

So, number three or three with a circle around it.

What street is that?

Uh that is 21st Street.

21st.

And we're the number two is just above that.

Kind of going in an angle.

The green line.

Yeah, just I don't know how to describe it.

That's a grass that's the grassy creek connector.

That's the new greenway that we've been building on the open version.

Gotcha.

Gotcha.

So like one of the big things and one of the things I think we would get really excited about is like one, this is an area that doesn't have a lot of greenways.

So to be able to bring access to greenways to a different part of town.

And two, to be able to like Grassy Creek Park, I don't know.

We spent a little bit of time there in the winter, but like it has some amazing natural resources.

I've heard previous parks directors call this, like the Eagle Creek of the East Side.

And you've got wetlands, you have all of these amazing resources, and to be able to kind of bring that sort of connectivity from Grassy Creek Park down to the Pincy and all of the different networks and all of the different opportunities that come from that is something that I think we are pretty excited about.

I agree, man.

I don't know a property in that area.

And I'm there quite a bit.

Yeah, you're right, transportation is a huge burden for a lot of people in that area.

I think I know where to go, so this is great.

So there's a lot of people outlet over there, a lot of pedestrians, so I think it's a good thing for the Farry site there.

We're working right now on a study for Washington Square Mall.

Um and uh this has come up quite a bit in our outreach.

Uh it's come up quite a bit in the Far East Quality Blight Plan.

So uh definitely interested in this.

We'd love to continue to keep you and the rest of the folks working on this in the loop on some of the progress we're making with with that part of the trail location.

Quick question too.

Um it's a great project.

Uh looking forward to it as well.

And you mentioned that it is now a time for public outreach, which involves this committee, I would say.

So I wonder if this would be a great exercise going into next our next meeting, is for each of us to look at this project at their time and then issue maybe one recommendation or one um comment, I would say.

Recommendation might sound a little heavy.

Um but just look at the project at its at its scope and see what is one comment that you want to bring forward um to uh to the group or to the team on our next uh on our next meeting.

I I think that could be doable for all of us.

Because one thing that I could already say publicly is maybe how with during this design process for this, is now identify one um business in this trail that could be a trail-friendly uh business.

So that's my don't steal it.

So that's my um that's my recommendation.

Um but I'll echo it again on the next meeting.

But I think this would be a great exercise for the committee uh just to bring that forward, and we could just bring that list uh to the group at large, unless there's any opposition towards that.

That's good.

And feel free to steer us on what would be most helpful and where it should be.

I mean, I feel like I am there isn't a roadmap for what is coming when is common and how you do common.

Um and I feel like I'm excited to explore with y'all what that might look like.

And I would love to be able to whether, like, to be able to lift up the things y'all are excited about, the things you're concerned about, and to be able to like incorporate that as part of a process.

So, I don't think we need a resolution to do that.

I think it's a five recommendation, and everyone.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, just on the record.

That's that's it.

I'm wondering uh in the tiny bit of time you have, Daniel, you can talk about e-bikes.

Yeah.

Okay.

Can I tell you all very quickly?

Uh I will I may save the update on Pacer Bike Share for another time that is not time sensitive, so I can update y'all later.

But we're doing cool stuff.

We're helping support uh the expansion of Pacer Bike Share in Central Indiana.

Um, the other thing I want to say is that uh we have interviewed, interviewed eight candidates.

We've made recommendations to the parts board and to city council about people that we think are gonna be really excited that that are excited about trails, that use trails that are passionate about trails and bring all these a number of different skill sets, including uh community engagement.

We've got a handful of people that are really like, I think would be good for some things like the trailer for the business committee because they just create stuff all the time and they talked about how they like love taking chaos and turning it into something um and then uh you know I'm excited to see where that goes um and then finally we are uh we've completed most parts of the Indy Grooming's for all plan or a couple of sections that we're working to finalize specifically the greenway places like the development guidance standards and also a section on finances to be able to make everybody a little bit more savvy on how what are the challenges that we need to be able to concrete be able to find the trail not only build it but also maintain it and build it well so those are the things that we're working on.

We have started putting together some of our road show materials we started talking to people about it and not giving y'all we're starting to give people this and we have like an email list of collecting people who are interested so that they can they can we hopefully want to understand who's excited so they can give us comments and maybe maybe hopefully if we build people's confidence once it's done be champions have it throughout our community so that is that is hopefully coming soon.

And I'm happy to to see the rest of my time to e-bikes and I got about six minutes.

And if y'all want to continue the conversation on e-bikes beyond what I would maybe say about e-bikes is this is a this is a complicated topic both like it's complicated people are talking about different levels like the federal, state and local levels people are talking about it across municipalities, people with different backgrounds have different thoughts and interests in it and I just what I am excited about the idea of bringing different whether it's different speakers your different um different viewpoints to the conversation and and as y'all make recommendations if y'all would like to that's that's at least part of what we hope to do as part of our processes that's at least part of I have looked to Central Indiana Cycling for some of their recommendations for for these things and I'm excited to see where this conversation goes.

So since I brought this whole e-bike thing up and say why I brought it up okay I think we have a public health a big public health hazard that has developed on greenways here and in other communities because of the advent of e-bikes which has changed the whole equation about how these greenways are used.

You suddenly have people who have motorized bicycles some of which go extraordinarily fast with extraordinary acceleration on a trail with walkers and bikers who are regular bikes and and sometimes very congested trails like the Monon going through Broadway.

And I think this is a big issue not only here but elsewhere around the country I have an article here I'll pass out there's 10 copies for everybody on the on the committee who's here this is from the New York Times it was a big magazine piece that kind of summarize the overview of it and identify some of the issues and the the issue is how how should the community be regulating this?

I mean should e-bikes be banned should all e-bikes be banned should some e-bikes be banned should there be stringently enforced speed limits on these on the greenways or how should we deal with them but I think this is this committee has an obligation and is the perfect forum to start the discussion and to examine some of these things and then perhaps make some recommendations to the city council or whatever agencies would be regulating this about what they should be looking at factors to consider and what we think might be the proper course going forward.

I would suggest along the lines of what you've already developed here today is that you appoint a subcommittee of people to perhaps work on this issue uh outside of the regular committee and then when we come back for the next since we only meet once every three months it takes us forever to move anything forward perhaps with a subcommittee that is able to meet uh more frequently and talk with each other we might move the ball forward faster on this because I think I really do think this is a public health threat that needs to be dealt with and how to do it I don't know.

So I do want to follow up in regards to that.

So I brought in a speaker that's probably five or six years ago.

He had a um he still has an e-bike running place on a Pincy Trail and he does pretty well at it.

And when he came in at a time we're a little bit also make confused in terms of what direction we should go in terms of recommendations and because it isn't one of rides vehicles but and that opens up a big door.

His argument was that um it was a great rehabilitation tool.

So someone has to knee surgery which is what he had replacement.

It was really good for him to be able to use like e-bike and get back on the trails without having all that pressure.

The only concern that I have with e bikes outside of the speed that is a big concern is that there's two different types of those a pedal assist and it's when it operates with a throttle throttle was like a moped to me kind of thing versus a pedal kind of like I don't have an answer in terms of how we should go about it.

But the throttle ones do concern me because I do see people literally just you're riding like motorcycles with their and if you're allowing e-bikes and electric vehicles then we're as a stop you know though I show up with a golf course and well it's an electric vehicle I don't have an answer to you but I think eventually somebody's going to kill it there's going to be some tragedy on the trail and then the city council people are going to be besieging the city council to do something.

Yeah.

Well we are the committee that should be preemptively getting ahead of that curve a little bit here.

Do you want to recommend a speed limit?

I mean if we have a speed that's the most amount of being you know there's also but what do you think about my idea about the subcommittee are there any's on that on the can we sure do they have by consensus or do we have to vote?

I don't care I think we should have such a committee subcommittee all I want to know is who wants to be on it.

Well I will obviously yeah you're you're on a bikes I think well I'll be glad to one who owns several e-bikes and uses them all the time um and was on the the task force they went to um study the infrastructure from Amsterdam and met with the Dutch cycling academy I think we I think it's a complex issue like flat out.

Um the Dutch have had this issue um and Craig it starts uh with where this evolution is eventually gonna go and it's the Dutch looked at our cultural trail and said why are you putting bikes and people on the same path that's a problem it's gonna have to be reconciled at some point.

And so I think what we're seeing is an idea that launched as a greenway trails to or railways to trailways that is now beginning to see acceptance that is not a lot different than when we went from horses to cars.

It's it's a different era but we had the same issues on our motorways that used to be our horseways and our our uh interurban ways and so I I think we we're gonna have to use restraint and caution to make sure that we look at this comprehensive issue.

What we're dealing with in many cases is abuse of opportunity um and that is human behavior and what we saw was in in the Dutch culture that the mobilization the electrification of the bike opened it up almost the way the ADA requirements do for disabled um and barriered populations within our community.

So I think if we're gonna have a subcommittee we're gonna have to equip the subcommittee with a really broad framework of understanding um not the political fighting that we're seeing in our in our public square today but the restraint to get to the facts that are causing this and what a pathway forward because I I echo um there are a lot of friends that I know that are now riding a bike that never rode a bike because their partner rode a bike and they couldn't keep up and the electric bike allows them to ride together.

I know a lot of people who have gotten old and and can not ride if not for the throttle I know a lot of people that wish they had a three-wheeled motorized tricycle so they could continue riding.

I know from the Dutch culture that the health issue we're worried about people dying on is the balance that gives them a longer lifespan because their balance is taught and they do this by riding longer analog and then eventually riding even longer electrified and so I think that pathway is broad and is going to take a real um you know comprehensive look there's no easy answers.

I'm so sorry for that yeah because I feel like that's that's such meaningfully input I was gonna say if I if there are ways that we can assist uh with the subcommittee I love the idea of like doing work bringing it here fostering conversation and just um please reach out if there are ways that we can assess with that especially just kind of coming from the transportation background there's things that we need a bike of shape the idiots it's uh I mean it's it's a broader conversation I just want to I just want to say thank you for bringing up and it is super nuanced but I gotta add out thank you so much I will warn basically I want to warn the committee that any subcommittees that get together and we are still subject to open door law so we still have to do it.

Simpson whole thing so if you members of any subcommittee um decide that you wish to meet to have a discussion amongst yourselves in person about issues that you're considering I don't know if you want to I don't know if it's either as a secretary if you're doing public notice and not according to open law law.

Or any subcommittee that we that's going to meet and discuss and again they can meet as prescribed the 40 hour notice say what public notice 48 I want to ask it off the top of that I don't want to figure but tell us how to not get in trouble please at some point.

But the proper public notice so that the public can choose to attend it is because they so wish is that only for the group and you any meeting the group that's but if you're gonna meet through whether it's electronically or what there are rules about that the rules about meeting in person so talk to your secretary and then if you have questions talk to me.

Yeah.

Okay just keeping it you guys need anyone else interested in being on a committee to talk about any bikes by email and post public notice in person Carlos.

Did anybody else I would love to learn more I don't want to take on too much.

Yeah okay Jim Matter Carlos how about that okay so um New York Times uh Sunday big peace the city of New York is giving bike lessons to people providing bikes for them to ride and want people out on bikes.

Yeah we're still in love with cars and I don't see us doing anything like that.

But they recognize that getting out on bikes is way better for the city of New York than more cars.

And so the city is doing all that stuff um come to a bike lesson and give good qual you know expert people here's a bike for you to use so I think trying to evaluate this situation, which will I assume keep evolving.

I mean if there are fast e-bikes today tomorrow, there will be faster e-bikes.

So I agree this needs attention.

Craig I would I would share with you that not just New York City.

Paris has done an extraordinary job of converting streets to bike paths because they've seen it as a pathway to quality of place and living.

And if Paris can do it in such a congested way, certainly other communities can learn from it.

And the amazing thing in Paris, having been there a couple years ago was like you've seen people in business suits riding bicycles going going to the office, you know, and uh it's very different than here that we got.

But they've got better food, man.

I don't know about that.

That's why they need to write the books.

Okay.

Yes.

This is an evolving topic that we want to say what we want to say after we figure out what we want to say.

If you guys would just let me know when you guys are doing that, the subcommittee meetings.

Um, need to vote on it too to create it.

We're gonna have a vote.

All those in favor of the subcommittee on e-bikes, hi.

Uh we uh probably so.

How do I how do I schedule a meeting then of the subcommittee with well just incorporate include me?

You probably would need to coordinate your time that you guys can meet.

Okay, and then just letting me know when that is, and then I'll need to work with you to make sure we can publicly what process to do that.

Okay, so Joe, previously what I've done is um I've been part of subcommittees in this group.

Um I didn't have an account with um, forgot who we said up, but we would have these conference calls so we would just send out a link to basically say you let them know if anyone wants to participate in these meetings you can call in.

No, whatever they have.

I mean, on electronic meetings have changed.

Yeah.

So the law anyway has.

So that's what I mean.

I want to make sure we if you whatever however you choose to make it.

Yeah, we'll put it for you, make sure that if you want to meet electronically or if you want to meet in person, we'll work away to make sure that it's kosher.

Yeah, just let me know.

I just need to be kept up to speed on the rest of coordinating.

And we've still got a quorum, so that's enough authorization or two in for and uh, I think we have authorized the committee previously on the trail friendly business program.

So I think we're okay.

Uh, is there anything else that requires a new business?

Anything that else that requires a couple, we lose people.

I I don't know.

New business, anything.

Anything else people want to bring up.

Talking about I'd like to ask to hear about next time is my understanding.

If I'm last basically someone tell me, but I my understanding is that that DPW acquired uh counters, right?

Like data collection devices to count usage of different uh trails or whatever.

And I would just like to learn more about how those are being used or how they're planning to be used.

That was one of my questions for Daniel when but we've sort of ran out of time.

So Bill, can you talk about that?

Yeah, I'll see what he thinks about that.

I mean, they're gonna be deployed and they can be moved around, so um it wouldn't be much different than how you know other studies are done for other modes, uh vehicular you know counts, for example.

I have asked over a period of many months, and and um the only thing I know so far is that the counters were acquired by the PW.

And um Daniel had told me previously that the data would not be secret, that it could be made public.

Yeah, that sounds right.

So if they're out there somewhere, could we get an update on what they're doing?

I yeah, I don't know.

I think the first the first deployment of them is pending.

Oh, and so um, like I said, I'm I've got a list here of a few things to bring up with uh Dana and just in lieu of the next meeting.

But yeah, there that's that's something that we can.

All right.

Be careful what you communicate to each other by email.

Um, we want to make sure that we do it in a public way, so um that's why if you meet it's probably the better the better way to uh collaborate or communicate or whatnot.

And do it call it.

If someone just sends like says, hey, I found this article, check it out.

Is that I don't think that reaches as far because you're not necessarily considering anything, but if you want to have a discussion, that should be reserved for uh a meeting or formal more formal meeting of a subcommittee.

I'm just thinking the others probably research the people doing and like, hey, I found all these articles, everybody check them out.

Yeah.

I want to call that.

I do not, they don't give me cards.

But I can certainly give you my information.

I've got your email.

It's on, I'm sure it's on the distribution list for the committee.

Yeah, okay.

Alright, we'll figure out what we're gonna do here.

May I what end of town are you on?

On the near north side.

Okay.

So 36th in central.

Okay.

I think we should have our uh public subcommittee meetings at the L Memorial.

Which one?

I love that place.

Greg, do we need a motion to adjourn?

Okay, but before we do, I want to make a comment real quickly.

Um I found out back in February, and I don't think anybody in this room was on the committee during those days, but I was recruited by a man named Greg Silver.

I don't know if you guys are familiar with him or not.

And Greg passed away this past February.

But um, Greg was a he was a chairman of this committee forever.

And he spent a couple of years trying to get me on this committee.

And this was back in 2012, is when he started lobbying for me to be on this committee.

I've been sitting here since 2014.

And this guy loved trips.

He absolutely loved Trails of Park.

He was a big environmentalist, and that's what kind of gave him some recognition.

He um I won't say he built his committee.

I think Ruth Hayes was uh back in O'Cays and I forgot the politician of the city council, but um, Greg was he was a part of this committee for a very long time, and whenever I'm out on a Fall Creek trail like I still, I want people in a community, they call it Don Colvin's drill because he knows that neighborhood, that community out there.

But Greg Silver was the attorney that this mass aid community hired to stop the water company from building a gated community by the day.

And Greg's position was if you're gonna sell water to the citizens of Indianapolis, they need to be able to see the water through my.

I just want to give him some recognition.

I mean, he's the reason why I'm sitting here.

I never knew what a greenway was until Greg started talking about it.

And now, fast forward 12 years later, I'm still sitting in front of you guys.

So just one thing, Greg.

Greg Silver was um a fine person who when he met other people wanted to know about them.

He didn't want to talk about I did this, I did that.

He wanted to know about their lives, and was very generous with his time, and uh he was a sad loss and untimely loss.

You know, he's a very successful uh attorney and bankruptcy trustee, but he never taught me about love.

All you know talked to me about was trails and he was all about it.

So birds, he loved counting the birds.

He would take me out the Eagle Creek Park a lot and uh a lot we're watching out there, and I think it was part um he was part of the uh the legal team that helped us out.

Um headquarters there as well, like?

Silver?

Silver, yes.

Thank you, Carlos.

I had no idea he was connected to this committee.

Thank you for that.

Yeah, we had a uh, this is back in 2016.

The city made it um, I don't know what it's called, but they gave recognition to someone, you know, and they did a big thing for him when he uh retired from the committee.

Um I don't want to say it was great silver day, but he something was right.

Yeah, proclamation of some sort of order.

Yeah, all I remember is uh I ripped my pants off the total, but lucky it was not visible, but um, yeah, he's he was a good man.

I want to be glad that.

He's a very good man.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Anything else?

Motion to adjourn.

So it's like a really good note to uh close on.

I'm sorry.

Feels like a very good note to close on.

Well, memorial of a good person, so moved.

Second, second hand.

We're we're adjourned.

Thank you all so much.