We want to start a Peterbow meeting for today's uh March uh 27th, 2026.

First order business is minutes from last month.

I'll make a motion except minutes from last month.

Second.

So we're gonna move a second for discussion.

Seeing none, all in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Yeah, I just have it.

We have uh a couple guests.

Uh Mr.

David King.

Mr.

King.

Okay.

Yeah.

Can we have you stand up and raise your right hand?

Any guests we'd speaking today.

Unless you're an attorney.

Unless you're attorney.

No, we have one.

Are you she has each today?

So yeah.

You raised right hand.

You swear to tell her truth, the whole truth, not true, so hop you got.

So I do.

Okay.

So first you'll have Mr.

King.

You got a parcel.

Page 119, parcel 701 5408.

It's under affordable concepts LLC.

Okay.

Do I swing around around here?

Um, right about where you are.

Yeah, it was like my fare, right there.

Oh, okay.

All right, so you gave me the help here.

Um I don't think I have an agenda.

I don't know.

Is this everything?

We need I need four copies of this.

Oh, I gave it to Vinia right there.

You didn't have it here.

Give uh I thought I put in an air on how many core for those.

I have the addition here on this.

Okay, that's the first.

Well, is that one favorite?

Yeah, yeah.

I've got to tell you this one.

At least it breaks out.

Yeah, that's one thing.

Yeah.

And this is uh real estate appeal.

Yes, yes, it's a single family home.

Okay.

Go ahead, sir.

You want to take the pace.

Yeah.

Oh, I'm just saying for the same.

Oh, yeah, I'm gonna state your name to the right, sir.

David King.

And your mailing address.

Uh it's uh 4742 East 17th Street, Indianapolis, 46218.

And this is on uh appeal for 6237 East Frawley.

Rally drive.

Okay, go ahead.

Um anyway, I uh approach this a little bit different um than some people might.

Um my home's kinda unique, it's in a unique area.

Uh it's in Windsor Village, and all the properties there are pretty much the same.

They're very similar.

They were built back in the uh naval avionics, all those, and so they're very similar.

And um so I decided the best way for me to approach this is to uh since I don't have any deductions on my that it's an LLC.

I just walked up and down 200 yards one eye, 200 yards the other, and I found out other LLCs, probably rentals, that also were in the same category as me, having the gross and net assessed values as the same.

And so since we're dealing with the tax question, it's not what am I gonna sell it for.

I didn't go to the final sales price because I had a lot of similar homes, not only built, but with the same situation I'm at with the gross and net assessed values, had no tax deductions, and so I just went up and down and surely have some that I pulled to when she gave me the final sales prices that had the gross and net assessed values as the same.

So I used a couple of hers, and I used so it's kind of neat with Windsor Village because it's it's a it's the nearest context, so to speak.

It's right at my neighborhood.

It's Windsor Village.

But then I even went further and went right around my home.

Because every street kind of varies on the price.

So I really emphasized the closest context to determine what my what it was and what maybe it should have been for that year.

And so I I had uh 10 of them here that I had, and then I had um uh well I added them all up, as you can see, um control group number one, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, and then I have my rally drive.

But anyway, I added all those up, nimits to um drive, and I came up with a total averages of all those, the gross and net assessed values, it's 69,242.

Mine was 1057, um, and then I took the square foot difference of all those, and that was 140 feet.

It's a far right side there at the bottom, right above 0.13%, and sh and um Carmen came up with about the same figures.

She told me it was about 97,000, and she added up the difference in the square foot, which is about 103,000 is what she said.

Mine was about the same with 140 square feet, a little bit more on mine in favor of the city.

Mine was 9,000 about, and so it's about the same.

And I and I took that difference percentage difference, multiplied it by 69,242, which ended up with 78,243.

Um that's basically ballpark figure is what it should have been, and that's based on the average condition of the homes, the average home.

Some of them were really good, some of them are really bad, some of them could have maybe been a distressed property, supposedly.

Mine was a distressed property.

Shirley mentioned that to me on the phone, and so there was a difference of 36,458.

Mine was way over the average, and it was a distressed property, and it is a distressed property, and so the another reason why I did not go use the final sales price, is I added up numerous properties in Windsor Village, the ones that Shirley gave me, and the final sales price, and then the net annual tax or gross assessment, which is what we're dealing with today.

I mean, I wasn't trying to sell my property back then, wasn't putting it up for sale, it hadn't been rehabbed.

Okay, it's like most people, it's yearly tax.

And so I added up all those figures, the averages, the final sales price on those was 98,414, whereas the tax that was based upon the yearly, the net annual tax and or gross assessment for those properties, the final sales price, there was a difference of 32,157 in Windsor Village, about because this this isn't all of them, obviously, and so that's why I don't like in my situation the final sales price, is because it's way over.

People put on average over $20,000 into a home to rehab it to get it up for sale.

I did not put any money in my home that year to get it up for sale and to do anything.

When you say the final sales price, that's what it was sold.

So it was sold here.

No, the the the ones that uh surely surely gave me the list.

That was a final sales price.

But I looked also at the net annual tax growth on each of them.

There was a big difference.

Huge difference.

Well the the tax liability would vary based on what exemptions may or may not exist on the right.

Right, right, exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah, and uh and so that that could have varied a lot there, but still I did not use that.

Yeah, I couldn't.

I couldn't find any near my home.

That's another reason why I didn't want to go to the final sales price.

But I'm just pointing out the fact that it goes up.

It's not accurate, is not as great a figure as what I'm presenting to you, and the option that I'm presenting to you is dealing with the closest contacts in my around my home, not only Windsor, some of them were Shirley's, but or especially around my home.

And so I do have licensed realtors and quotes that they gave on my property.

One of them was 30 to 50,000, another was uh mid-30s.

I do have the sales sheet on that, and then another one uh were uh a different she was affiliated somehow with him, but it was about 40, she said she'd be in the mid-40s, and there were properties that were 46,000 in that.

I do have that information too.

But anyway, I don't want to deal with that.

I just want to tell you how I approached this.

I approached a little bit differently, it's more accurate, and um and I can give you my sales data too on uh would you like to get the information on these realtors right now?

Okay, well, you've provided a sheet to this, right?

It's all on a sheet here.

No, no, it's not.

Uh I I do have all those sheets here for you guys.

Or those sheets on your uh here's one right here.

And what are these sheets?

Though those are uh it's a sale, that's a realtor.

Oh, proposed to sell your property.

Yeah, not much it was worth and here's the purchase agreement that I actually had this whole thing.

I don't know if you want, I got first page of it.

If you want the whole thing, you can look at that too.

So have you are you selling this property currently?

Well, I wasn't hey, I I yeah, it's definitely I don't know exactly what's going on, but um if oh somebody were giving me a good price at that time.

Well, what's the purchase agreement?

Yeah, that's what I was uh I uh what my intention is to uh to sell the property but yeah, well that's cash, right?

For this property, yeah.

For cash as is, right?

Well, that's that's all because of the roof and everything else that's wrong with it.

Yeah, and I I can't do there's obviously somebody could buy it the other way, but the chances are it's gonna have to be somebody with a cash dealer.

And here's the here's four of those purchase agreements.

This is the first page of them if you if they want to ask phones, right?

That's a question.

Um so you've just got realtors from our hair.

Okay, you got realtors to give you estimates.

Yeah, I'm still dealing with them.

And they just did this even though you're not really gonna sell the house.

Oh no, no, I I was interested in still am.

Uh I'm heading that direction.

I've had shingles the last 10 weeks.

And uh, and so they knew my situation.

I wanted to sell it in February.

Now that's behind.

So you're gonna sell it as is I don't know.

I really don't know what's what's gonna go on right now.

Things have changed.

So how many how many purchase agreements are realtors looked at the house?

Uh just that one, but I've got also uh that one I gave you from another realtor, and that was for Kyle.

And then also I think there's another one.

Here's Lawrence, too.

She I didn't accept that agreement.

I mean, she said, well, I can do a little bit better.

I don't know what the affiliation with her was down was or how she heard about it.

Uh it's Lauren Monroe.

She said she'd be willing to uh to go to the mid-40s.

What do you think it's for?

Tax proper service.

Oh, I I I tell you what.

Oh, this good question.

Appreciate it.

Yeah, because uh the last 10 years I've been uh getting all kinds of people looking at it.

Um trying to and none of them have gone over 55,000.

And it's not improved since I did gone down.

Okay.

So you're go ahead.

I'm sorry.

And I'm not talking about I've had maybe a hundred people come on.

Okay.

So the one page buyers.

Um the summary sheet that you kind of gave us at the beginning.

Uh-huh.

It it you've got a calculation on here, it comes to 78,243 and 46 cents.

Is that that?

Is that your proposed?

Is that what you're asking for?

Well, no, because it's a distressed property, and I that's a good question.

Yeah.

I mean, this is uh surely offered me $20,000.

Um you know, because she said it was a roof.

That that that uh I didn't offer you nothing.

Well no, you said $20,000.

No, but I didn't offer you nothing.

Like I gave you the sales that you were requesting.

Carmen has your keel and would answer any questions on the peel.

You asked for the sales, I provided the sales, which Missy has up there.

Okay, but I didn't offer you 20,000 for your no, no, you said it'd be it'd be that the the 20% would be for the roof, 20,000 basically.

Yeah, I mean I think I don't want to get the part the car before the horse with Carmen's analysis, but I think we got an assessed value of 105,000.

I think the county's position is to reduce this to 80,000 yes.

And I just I was trying to clarify because it looks like from this sheet's pretty close to 80.

I mean he's got 78,000 on the sheet versus 80.

I mean else when I ask her.

Yeah, um it's distressed property.

If they dropped it 20,000, it'd be 68, 58.

That would kind of fit in with uh the 50 to 60.

Well, it's a set for 105.

So if you go down to six, it's talking about 40% off.

Well, I know.

That that uh and if you look at I you guys have pictures and everything.

There's the distressed property is more than just a roof.

There's a lot of roofs that need replacement, even in the list I gave you.

That doesn't determine uh a distressed property, distressed property are far more difficulties, and they came out, took pictures of it and everything, videos of it, uh you know the garage roofs about ready to come off, uh drywall in the kitchen.

All that's gotta be replaced, the bathroom is a mess.

Um, it's gotta be redone before that could even be rent out.

Okay.

Um you got the information.

All right.

Yeah, this is a distressed property.

Carmen.

Got something to add.

Thank you.

Welcome.

Okay.

Yeah, I I had some sales similar what he had.

We had um these are the sales in the area um for the 2023 year.

Um, and we had a handful of them that were this was totally unlivable.

Um, it's gutted in in parts of it and and that.

So that was sold for 46.

It also had been renovated and then sold again for like a hundred and some thousand.

Um so I kind of did not use that particular one when I was trying to see what would be the um value on this home per sales.

So the county stuff, right?

I am, I'm sorry.

I just want to make sure he knows who you are.

I am um so we had a handful of sales that were what we thought were in need of care and help and maintenance homes.

I used those as a guide.

Um most of them were well, I think all of them were smaller than his home.

And um that's where I initially had offered him a hundred thousand prior to going out and taking photos of the home and seeing it.

Once we've done that, and I saw it was a little bit more distressed than originally thought.

Um, I came back um and offered him another um approximately 20% lower, which made it about 80,000.

Looking at the sales that we had, because as I said, just looking at the regular homes that had sold in the neighborhood in 2023 that needed a little help and paint and some I don't know.

They had some other distress, you know, they had other issues going on with them.

They needed new kitchens and bathrooms and stuff.

That averaged out at about 100,000 for his size home.

And so then I offered him to 8,000, which gave confidence about.

That was my offer to him based off those sales.

I don't know.

I mean was there is there any other questions I questions from the board?

Okay.

Anything else then I like to add?

No questions for anybody.

So Carmen, did you just come up with a price per square foot?

I did basically, and that's where I initially had about the hundred thousand.

Um because his home is almost thirteen hundred square foot, it's twelve twelve twenty-one.

Um so I used square foot pricing to come up with the hundred thousand, and then once I got the photos from Ben, I did offer him lower at the eighty thousand because of that.

I have a question.

So can you explain to me?

Um he has information from a couple reality companies based on what they would sell the house for.

I never saw any of that or heard any of that, so that's all kind of new.

Okay.

Yeah, that was all.

So I'm just wondering what the what's the formula for that?

If it's uh they're saying 30 to 50,000, but then we come in at 100, the county.

How do you why is that?

Well, initially the 100 was what I had offered him originally when I didn't know anything more about the house than that it was probably in in a little bit of need of maintenance and stuff, and I was looking at sales trying to find homes that sold in the Windsor Village area that were in need of some help and tender love and care and stuff.

And when I found those homes, um, which had been up on the screen, but when I found those homes at square foot pricing, that's where I had approximately a hundred thousand um using those sales at the square foot pricing.

Um, and that was my initial thing.

I none of those none of the information he just handed you did I know anything about at that point in time.

I don't know that he had I don't know when he got all that information.

Um but then like I said, after we went out and did a field inspection um with photos and stuff, and it it did need a little more repair, you know, repair and stuff than what um I initially thought, so I had lowered it to the 80,000 um at that point in time.

But all of that information is all new to me because I didn't have any of that.

Okay.

Okay, so you can say that hey, this is what I'm gonna sell it for.

Doesn't necessarily mean that's what it's gonna sell for.

It could sell for less, it could sell for more.

Um I gave it to Missy, it's you guys kind of have it, but it's a little harder to read because it's black and white and the pictures aren't so great.

But on the board here, we have the list of all sales from 2023.

The first sale being a truly distress sale, the home is not livable, parts of it is gutted, and the price for it, and then the sales two through six are the sales that Carmen used, which were distress sales, their homes in need of repair, and they ranged in value from 67,000 to 99,000, and then sales seven through ten on that list are all homes within the subdivision that have been rehab that sold for 110,000 up to 100 and I think 49 ish, somewhere in there.

Um, but the mid-sales there are the ones that Carmen used, and they're all distress.

I think that's some level of need of repair, whether it be bathrooms, this one is uh bathroom um carpet flooring throughout the house, and this particular sale sold for 99 nine as a distress sale.

So the 80,000 we're offering is the midpoint of the distress sales that we came up with that actually sold um during the time hearing for the appeal.

So the the real Mr.

King.

Yes, the realtors uh is that like a broker price opinion?

Is that what you got from them?

When did you get information from the realtor?

I yeah, they came out and gave me uh the quota.

So I mean I don't know if I could want to find it.

When when was it?

That was right about all of the time that uh the pictures were taken and everything else, and you know, uh the videos and October, November I'm late in 2025.

Right.

Yes.

I mean, just uh just for a point of reference for a 2024 assessment.

We're looking at sales that occurred in 2023.

So I'm not gonna say that you know what a broker would would list this thing for in 2025 or 2026 is completely irrelevant, but it's not we're looking at 2023 market.

So wait a minute.

I'm just trying to understand this because I'm you know so we're looking at 2023, but this is we're now 2025, 26.

So did you ask the realtor what like I've sold a house before, so realtor, uh what can I get for my house?

Is that how you approach this, or did you go at it a different way?

I couldn't hear it.

What was your language when you met with the realtor?

Because if you at did you ask the realtor, hey, what can I get for my property on the market?

I'm sure the reality company did comps in the area, or did you give them a number or did what you thought, or I mean, be be very clear with that.

I did not.

Mr.

King, can you come stand in with the microphone, please?

Thank you.

Yeah, I I just wanted to do it to say, okay, you know, I mean, how much is it worth?

How much can I get for the property?

Um I'm thinking about putting it up for sale in February.

And so I want to wait until then.

Uh of course it they kind of wanted to get to get it going right away, but um, and then I got sick, I just wasn't feeling good.

And so, you know, that that kind of and it was really low what I was getting, so I'm thinking, wow, you know, uh, I don't know what I want to do right now.

And so um that's where I'm yeah, it was serious, definitely serious.

Um so but you see where the county is if if they did comps in the area and looked at distressed properties, right?

And like you said, they're at 80 or 90.

I'm just puzzled why the reality company wouldn't have been on the same page as the county, because that's a big, in my opinion, that's a big difference.

Well, you know, and that's a great question because when I started this whole process, uh I was looking at uh my wife wife looked at it, she said, Wow, that's crazy we're getting charged that much for that kind of home.

And so I started looking into it, and I I called a realtor, a guy that shows up and helps you do it, you know, approach it to the city, and and and he just looked online really quick.

He says, 'Yeah, you know, I mean, there's something going on here, you know, and uh, and so that's when I started really getting into it.

And he told me, yeah, you you got an issue here.

Okay.

So he uh the realtors that you talked to, they did not give you any information other than a price.

They didn't tell you what sales, what time period those sales were in, or what sales they were actually using when they came up with the price of but there again uh there wasn't anything uh yeah that was close to it.

Um closest one I had was forty-six thousand um you know, one of the list that it just had what I'm surely she just the lowest one 65, and so uh then I looked at an earlier one she sent me because they sent me three lists, and uh and that had 46,000 on it.

It's the very first one that is completely.

It's completely unlovable, and your house is not unlivable, is that correct?

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, I mean I it is not level.

What did it look like in 23?

Same.

So no one has lived there for two years.

The staff the staff go out there and look at the house?

Yeah and what what did you what did you guys say as far as living conditions?

It needs some TLC.

Um it's got some minor repairs that need to be addressed.

Um but even with what we see there with the sales that happened with similar properties in the same repair, we believe that the value that we are asking for falls in line with actual sales within the same um repair status.

They're comparing the other ones that need about the same TLC as his property.

His property is not it's in a little better shape than that one that was at 46,000 that has no interior wiring, plumbing, any of that.

So his at least has that but needs a little bit of repair issues.

So can I ask you a question?

What would you sell the house for?

I couldn't get any more.

I couldn't get any more good 55,000 for I mean I can ask what I want, but I'm not gonna get it.

Here's here's some uh here's some realtors that they gave me some comparatives uh if you want.

Uh how many realtor how many realtors did came out and did an uh evaluation and told you what the house could go on the market for well uh Kyle and also um Lauren Um, yeah, is the other girl I don't know if she had showed up with them or not, so I just don't know exactly what it's do you have any estimates from um any contractors on what the cost would be to make the repairs so that it would be livable?

I I didn't, you know, I mean um my my concern um isn't really because it I one picture shows the ceiling on it that's coming apart.

I mean it's leaking.

That that's got three rooms that are leaking.

Uh so uh a lot of drywall work needs to be done.

Um the roof itself would be twenty thousand at least the main roof.

Then we got a back roof that's tied on to it.

It's a porch roof, it's separate.

That's gonna be sixty-eight thousand dollars just to have that done additionally.

Um so if you start adding in what you're what you would take for it now and what you need to put into it, then you're almost at 80, 90,000.

Well, I yeah, I'm not here yeah, not I'm not gonna be getting a bunch of I didn't get a bunch of estimates because I'm just showing you guys okay.

Here's 78,000.

They offer 20, take 20 off it.

I'll I'll deal with that.

I I can I can live with that.

58.

I think we're trying to be at least in my opinion, we're trying to be fair with you, but it's like we need I don't know, before we grant a decision, in my opinion, we need more information.

Uh uh, because it's not looking in your favor.

I mean, the the the what you take for it now versus what you need to put into it is gonna put you in my opinion up to market fair market rate, which is like she said, eighty, ninety thousand dollars.

Where it is now versus how much you need to put so if you don't even have estimates on what it would be for somebody to move in it, don't do anything and be ready to go, versus somebody buying it and doing a uh rehab on it.

That's two different equations.

Are you following me?

If I was to buy about if you was to sell it right now as an investment property, and you're saying you take 58 for it, okay.

You're gonna turn around and mark it up and put and and try to make some money on it if you sell it, or if somebody buys it and move moves into it, they want to be ready to go, but not at 58, they're gonna be ready to go with the 80 or 90.

So that's where the that's what they're they're coming in with the market conditions.

Yeah, yeah, I I I understand what you're saying.

All I'm saying is going back to one that was that was given 2023.

Uh I'm saying it's it based on the net assessed value.

I'm saying that was wrong.

I'm I I'm not saying okay, if I put 20,000 in, so I can make more.

No, I'm not looking at that.

I'm looking at what the figure was back then, it was wrong.

It was way off.

I'm not trying to look to the future.

I'm not saying okay, if I put such and such money, I can do the money off it.

That that that's totally different a question.

The question that we're dealing here with today is okay, why was I charged so much back then?

And and uh forget the future.

You know, if I make money out the rate, there's nothing wrong with that.

Okay.

So it's not like he just recently got it and it was this way, it's been in his name since 2009.

And at one point it was his primary residence that was fallen in disrepair.

I think with regard to his realtor's opinions, it's a recent opinion.

I mean I assume they're looking at sales in the latter part of 2025, which would be relevant for a 2026 valuation.

Well and again, we're looking at 2023.

2023 for a 1-1-2024 evaluation.

So well, one of the real one of the comps that his realtor used.

Yes, granted, it was a 2025.

And it sold for 80,000, and it has remarked on here, is it is poor condition.

And it's still sold for 80,000.

I I think that kind of supports the 78 to 80,000 that the county was looking at.

Missy cool is the one that I just emailed.

And that came directly from his re litter.

Kind of right in the same boat where you are, where you're mentioning right there.

Here's a distress sale from 2025 that um is very similar to his that's sold in 2025 for 105,000, and is um maybe the right one.

It's updated.

I mean, it's got a panel room I'm in.

Okay.

Yeah, and and even that one that they submitted that is closer to the same size that his is because it's 1,176 square feet.

His was 1221, I think.

Okay.

I'm ready to make a motion.

I'm sorry.

We kind of went over and about what we should have property, but my motion is to accept the 80,000 that the county has recommended.

I'll second.

It's been moved secondary further discussion.

So you're none all in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Against the eyes have it.

So we just have an eighty thousand.

You need your sheets back, sir.

Yeah, not at all.

Okay.

Okay.

Well, we really need the original one.

Like this the one that had the company.

And the purchase.

Oh, I'm pretty sure you're talking.

Thank you.

Coming in.

Oh, okay.

Okay, that's Mr.

King.

Yes.

Here's our original purchase.

You got Josh?

That's I right?

Thank you.

Thank you.

I might need to look at your agenda.

This is from last month.

Oh, that was mine.

Oh, it is.

First page is wrong.

Oh, just the agenda.

Okay.

Is that the wrong agenda page?

This said it was printed in February.

Okay, so you know what when you told us what page number that was on, and then I turned to that page number, it it wasn't his own.

Well, yeah.

Yeah, and I so I just thought, well, I just heard the number wrong, and I don't think we got February.

You got me the right one.

Sorry, that's the wrong agenda.

That's the one that got sent out earlier, but I'm sure I didn't print that one.

I printed the real side.

Oh, is that I can pull it up?

Oh, it's looking like we turn off the wrong one.

Yes.

And that's what I was thinking.

But hey, you have the right additional pages.

And that's what we're gonna talk about next.

Okay.

Um so this is your additional pages that I added.

They're on the back of the agenda, they say pages three, four, five, and nine.

Or three four, yeah.

I don't know.

Um this is for Indianapolis Housing Agency parcels 105-8745 109-0965, and uh one of oh, that one's the wrong parcel.

Um that one you don't have the right parcel on.

Okay, it should be 109-3767.

Yeah, 109-3766.

Um these are objective appeals.

There it's not a subjective appeal, um, and they're here to talk to the board today.

Um about the property tax exemption, correct?

Yeah, sorry, I like I just need to go home, clearly.

Um it's I'll pull it up on Pictometry so you guys can see what it is, and then I'll let him just project it in date.

Yeah, I did give you the right additional pages.

Yeah, you gave me some.

I did.

Sure.

Sitting over there, you probably put it under your agenda and just threw your agenda.

Okay.

Okay.

That's her fixed name.

And yeah, good morning.

My name is Josh Schlecky.

I'm an attorney with Ice Miller representing uh the Indian US housing agency today.

I'm also joined by Leah Dancer with the uh Indianapolis Housing Agency.

So if you have any questions, you know, I either us are happy to answer.

Um, as Missy mentioned, there are three parcels at issue, but the the issues here are fundamentally the same.

These three parcels are all part of what uh Indianapolis Housing Agency calls the 16 Park Project.

They're three affordable housing uh projects at 16th and Park.

Um they've been uh subjects to the county has assessed taxes um for the last several years.

We're here today on an objective appeal, as Missy mentioned.

Um, you know the Indianapolis Housing Agency is a is a governmental entity, it's an agency created by city ordinance for state law purposes, it's a political subdivision and a municipal corporation.

Um, and so we're asking to have the the uh the taxes removed for the last few years, you know, as as a an initial matter, these are being used for an exempt purpose, right?

They they're affordable housing, the land is owned by the Indianapolis housing agency, it's then leased to an entity called 16 Park LP.

16 Park LP is managed and controlled by the Indianapolis Housing Agency.

It does have third party investors who brought in capital in exchange for the federal tax credits, as is very common in this type of structure.

Um, and then but these are Indianapolis housing agency projects, they're used for affordable housing by the city.

Um affordable housing is a recognized exempt purpose, both as a charitable purpose under uh dash 16 and also for lessening the burdens of government.

So just as an initial matter, the the board should be able to feel comfortable with these really are exempt per uh exempt proper properties.

If we had had a 136, I think we feel pretty comfortable.

A 136 file, we feel comfortable that they would have been exempt.

But even stepping beyond that, um the the properties really never should have been subject to assessment to begin with, and a 136 wasn't necessary, which is why we're here on an objective appeal today.

So Indiana Code 6-1.1-11-9B says that uh property that's kind of owned and operated by a political subdivision like IHA and the city aren't even subject to assessment.

So these properties really shouldn't have been assessed, and then similarly, 6-1.1-11-4 says that a 136 isn't required when you have properties that are um again owned and operated by a political subdivision, so by such as IHA.

So, you know, we feel uh on that alone, um, you know, the assessment should shouldn't have occurred, or you know, the exemption should have existed even outside of the the fact that the 136 wasn't filed uh on on the property.

Um there's there's an additional basis here um for why the uh assessment all also should be removed, which is that as we mentioned, you know, IHA owns the land and and leases to this um related partnership that then uh helped to build the building.

And I'll point you to Indiana Code 6-1.1-10-37B, which says that essentially says that when you have a governmental entity lease or an exempt entity leasing to a third party, the tax needs to be opposed on the leasehold interest.

So even to the extent this should have been taxable, which again we we don't believe it should be, and would maintain it wasn't, the tax needed to be imposed on the leasehold interest held by 16 Park LP, and it's not appropriate to impose it against the IHA as the county here.

So again, I I think however you slice it here, there's lots of different ways that this property shouldn't have been assessed and taxes shouldn't have been imposed.

Um and so that's why we're here today.

I'm I'm happy to answer any questions that I as I mentioned, Leah from IHA is is also here.

Uh it should be noted that in 2013 they were granted a partial exemption, but we never gave it to them.

Like we approved it, but it never got put on for the properties.

So at one point we did say yes to a partial exemption, but now they're they're wanting to go back just to 23 for 100%.

And partially based on what we know.

Based it was based on public housing.

Why only a partial, why not 100%?

I don't know in 2013 why they I don't think Josh we discussed that nobody knows why they only got 10% because it is it is a hundred percent public housing, correct?

That's my understanding as well.

Okay, okay.

So question is this the department building behind the Kroger?

Next to the Kroger.

Right here.

Here's the Kroger.

Yes, yeah, and the alley right there.

They just built they built that about 10 12, 13 years ago.

Okay.

So who's the third party?

The third party owns the land.

So IHA owns the land, and then there's a lease in place with 16 park LP, which again is the limited partnership that IHA controls is the general partner of, and then there are third-party investors uh for federal tax credit purposes.

When they had a built, the when the building okay, all right.

And we don't do any NL doesn't allow us to do improvements on lease ground.

So it all goes on one parcel for any housing authority.

Okay.

I mean, at the point a government agency is in ownership of a property and they're leasing to someone else.

I think a 136 is required to be filed.

Okay.

I I mean I I think that you know dash four says it's it's it's not required to be filed by the city agency, you know, to the extent you think maybe 16 Park LP should have filed it.

I I think that you're saying you still think the IHA.

I mean the lessor has to file the 136.

We can't tax a lessee.

The owner is taxed.

The city is not required to file a 136 as a governmental entity.

I I think Indiana law would state that they're not required to file 136.

Well, the city, the city actually files for an exemption on the CJC and everything because the city uh well no, that's not one that the city no, the city is different.

But it is there is a statute that says that if if it's even if it's owned by city county state, if it's not being used by the city county and state for their purposes, um, and they're leasing it or whatever, they they are required to file for a 136 to exemp the property, so we can tax it because it's not uh used by the city, county, or state, so it becomes a hundred percent taxable.

I mean, first of all, I think it is being used effectively by the city here.

It it's being used for affordable housing by the IHA, but but even so I I think in that case you'd be taxing the leasehold interest held by the third party.

You wouldn't be taxing the city.

Well, but the city owns the pro well Indianapolis housing agency owns the property, so we we tax the owner of the property.

Um the city of Anneapolis gets bills all the time for us on properties that they may own, but they lease out, um and they don't apply if if it's not being used for a government purpose, not saying that this one isn't, but um, and they filed in 2013, so somebody in 2013 said we should be filing for this, and that's when they bought the property.

I mean, it sounds like an exemption would be granted on this, right?

But we just didn't have a file.

That's my question.

Like, what you just said it is being used for right, so it is governmental housing.

It I mean is it's a hundred percent governmental housing?

Affordable housing, yes.

So how do you get your client?

Like, are they referred?

I don't know.

So there's a waiting list.

Okay.

There's a waiting list.

So but is it like section eight housing or it's not section eight.

Um section eight is where you have a voucher.

Right.

But if you have a voucher, you can apply to 16 parts waiting list.

But it's only used for affordable housing, no in-between all great areas, only affordable housing.

Affordable housing.

Okay, income guidance.

Okay.

So yes, so we we were we would say that if an exemption was filed, I mean, one was filed in 2013, nobody filed again, and nobody questioned for several years until you took over, right?

That is when you noticed that you were paying the bill on this.

Yes, because the property had been managed by a third party right uh company up until 2025.

Yeah, we had new leadership coming in 2025.

And actually, yeah, then they they reached out to me.

So they have been paying they've been paying it for 12 years, yeah.

Wow.

So but the management company was overseeing all the expenses.

Right, and the and I think the bills were probably going to the management company, not now, or I'm pretty sure.

So the management company was paying the taxes.

What is our council saying?

Do they need to file 136 or have you looked into it or you need time to look at it?

I mean, I could look into it.

The I mean what way can you say because they had a 2013?

I mean, if they had if if if the exempt well has anything changed since 2013 ownership?

No.

Who managed the property now?

I'm sorry.

Okay, who manages the property now?

So the property was recently sold in January.

Oh, we don't have it yet.

So it was sold to who?

Oh to uh um they're not a non-profit group.

Um their company is out of say from the West Coast called BIGES.

So how does that how does that play in?

Well that this exemption if they had an exemption it would fall off from this change of ownership.

Right.

Right.

So we're not asking going forward, this is just 23 through 25.

So the okay, okay.

Yes.

And so they want their money back.

And they I don't think it's been just let me clarify.

We we got a 2013 exemption granted.

Correct.

That was never applied.

Never applied.

I I and then they filed a 130 for 2024 or 2025 to go back.

Six tax payments.

Correct.

I mean, they should have they should have already had an exemption.

I don't know what the partial percentage was, and I don't know why it's partially granted.

I was on a board back then, but I don't remember me.

And it looks like they paid 247,000 654 and taxes just on one parcel, and they just have the current tax bill owed.

So they would be getting a refund for those two, because it's it's those years in in question, 23 and 24 and then 25.

And when the check was written, uh for the tax bill was it um where where'd it come from?

Did it come from IHA or did it come from the management company or do we do you know who paid this recent bill?

So the recent bill saw as the property was being sold, the um there was a lien that showed up.

So the title company paid the uh so it just came out of the proceeds from the sale.

Yeah.

So IHA paid those through the sale, but we don't the treasurer gets the checks and stuff, so I couldn't say who but right now we would like so well we actually don't even know you said they haven't paid from 2023 to now, is that right?

But they did because they sold the property, so in order to sell the property they had to pay the back taxes.

Yeah, yeah, I got you.

Okay.

Okay.

So that's what they're asking.

It's for 23, 24, and 25.

25 wasn't worked out in the closing, do you know?

I would have to follow up on that.

How much is that?

25 is just on the one parcel is 79,000.

But I don't know, sometimes in closing, they got a percentage, right?

Yeah, right it's a so we would still technically the exemption would still be in place for 25 because they owned it on one and twenty-five, and it would fall off for one and twenty-six.

Right.

What what percentage was granted in 2013?

10%.

And all it says is public housing, and I don't know if it was supposed to be 100.

I have no idea.

I think we need to research this.

Okay.

So the the building was sold is still affordable housing right now?

It is, yes.

Through I think a new owner, right?

Yeah, not a new non-profit company buying now, right?

They're not a non-profit.

They're not a nonprofit.

There's an agreement with Hood to keep the property affordable.

Okay.

But they're a four-profit and so they would pay taxes.

So they pay taxes.

Okay.

They pay or they I mean they they have an opportunity to file their own exemption.

And then technically, IJ still owns the land.

Oh, so the ownership's not gonna change then.

If I still owns the land, and they just sold the improvements, it's gonna the land's gonna stay.

So I mean how do you sell the improvement?

I don't know.

But that's so they don't own it.

That's in place to keep the the uh property still in portable, so that's one of the agreements in place with Hood.

Um right, but there's not gonna be a conveyance document that comes through the assessor and goes to the recorder to change the ownership of this.

I'm not sure.

We'll have to find out about that.

I think we need a motion to uh table us to next month and again a little more research done whether they needed to file 136 based ones all saying they didn't they needed to file and attorney says they don't need to file, so we kind of need to take a look at it and see what they need to do and don't need to do.

I mean okay, and I'll go back to 2013, see why that was granted back then or not, but we have records back that far, but I think we do and so the next meeting will be April 24th in this room at 9 a.m.

Okay, there's a second of my motion.

Second.

Oh sorry second.

It's been moon moon and secondary for discussion.

See you now and all pairs say aye.

I the eyes have it.

I'll get with you.

Thank you.

I got that.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Thanks for coming in.

Thank you all.

And we also need to find out about 26 ability 27.

Who I've had a really good.

I mean the ownership changes it.

But if the ownership doesn't, if the owner's ship doesn't change, we would not pull that exemption off.

I think it should be pulled off based off this conversation.

Well, this is what I mean.

That's why 136 should be re required.

Required because if they change the less C that's that's a CO slash U that needs to be filed.

Yeah.

But he failed to bring up the fact about the land, so that's why y'all know I like to ask questions, so it really came out, but we need the and I will say they just got this, like got hired within the last month on this.

Okay, just sold in January, so you don't want to tax.

It wasn't I no, they didn't show up in 2013.

Yeah, we didn't have them in person.

You should be able to find there in 2013.

Yeah.

I hopefully it's scanning.

I'll look again.

But no idea.

Was that not that 2013?

Was it so we won't go on agenda if they don't have a copy of them, or you just want to put them on the screen or I can put it on the screen if that's easier, or I can go for a more agenda.

Oh, that's one screen.

Okay, so we got pages one through eight.

Objective appeals.

Oh, it went 530.

133s.

Hang on, I don't have the agenda.

How do I not have the agenda?

Let's try to help.

There it is.

Let's hope it's the right one, all right?

Yeah.

Is that what happened?

That's page one.

Mine says 2026 on the line, thank goodness.

Alright, page one.

MS operations center partners.

Yes.

Okay.

I got a question on that one.

Start off.

From 37 million to 30 million.

Yes.

Does change utility storage on general retail on card two?

And remove recognition adjustment.

Yes.

Um I believe, Don, is this one we've also changed the Yes, that is that is correct.

It's just adding that.

It wasn't changing this framing.

263 per unit or per square foot, I'm sorry.

263 per square foot off of the entire building.

But we didn't do anything with the framing?

We did not on this one.

I thought that one had a I thought this one had a framing issue too.

Maybe that would that was that one framing also?

421 each pocket.

Yes, that one did have framing also.

Then we had a change from reinforced concrete to fireproof seal and wood choice.

So we had the whole building as uh reinforced concrete.

Um it was only the first floor.

Um, and then the upper floors are uh wood joist.

Um so it and it went to fireproof steel, which is actually a higher pricing.

It it's higher than the reinforced concrete.

Right.

Um for the first floor for the first floor, and we had photos to show um because we did have a disagreement with the taxpayer on that.

Um right there you can see so you can see there's the wood joist up there, but we have the fireproof spray on there.

Um I will say the taxpayer did go to the state, and the state told them to come back to me.

And I said it's fireproof steal.

So and they're still claiming it's not.

Yes.

But I I think they were wanting to get the appeal settled.

So they just accepted it.

And we came to that agreement.

So that's why there's and and the AC does change a lot for that.

We were double counting them for AC.

Um the ACs is including base price, right?

Correct.

And you add it on another HC on top of that.

Correct.

Okay.

All right.

So that's the one, those those are apartments that I've been retail below.

Correct.

And we have actually we have missed it.

The retail space as utility storage.

So that's why it didn't go down as much because we took it from utility storage unfinished to generate retail finish.

So it would have been a bit of a but then it counteracted it because you took all the air conditioning.

Right off, which made it now be quite.

And we made the upper four is Lid Joyce.

What kind of retail is in there?

Uh yeah.

Um what is that?

The orange theory workout place and nail salon and IU medical.

Gotcha.

So we had picked up the medical side, but we didn't pick up the nail salon and work out.

Okay.

Question just from our own curiosity.

How do you determine the air conditions?

Do you get pricing or how do you do that?

We we just uh there's a pricing for it, but uh I mean when we go out and assess the properties, we check to see if it has central air of central heat.

Um most apartments do, the older ones don't.

No, but for apartments, we didn't realize the state had included AC and the apartment unit finish, and so we thought we just had to put it on for the building, but so we put it on for the building and with it was showing up in the unit finish that we have to put in.

Oh page seven, parcel one zero zero four seven three three offer three hundred thousand.

I saw it was sold in July 31st, 25 for 380,000.

Is that within the range?

That is yours, surely 3365 Broadway.

Yes.

Can't you be very proud?

Sorry, it's okay.

I don't know if that was in the range of you normally do or it's carless.

Yeah, she's just saying, it's not changes to one down 300,000.

Can we table it?

Yeah, let's table it and we look at it.

Okay.

You got that down, okay?

Gotcha.

Okay.

Thank you.

I'll make a motion accept page one through seven.

Or I'm sorry, I'm gonna do eight.

Second.

So I can all favor say aye.

You eyes have it.

Uh we got nine through one thirteen.

I'm ahead here.

You need to see it, Captain.

Uh page ten, parcel eight oh five five three six two.

It's the parties resolved to a preliminary conference made a POA.

Went down three million dollars.

I don't say why on page 10 and page 14 and page 101 for 104 for every year.

Is that 22?

Yes.

Okay.

So here it says it was based on compare area comparable properties and get a fair market value adjustment was warranted.

Okay, so I made 16 million.

Yes.

This is the property.

I think they had some vacancy issues too up there.

Oh okay.

All space.

Okay.

Yes, it was office space.

Okay, 16.

Uh parcel.

9006988.

The landfill.

From three million to seven hundred forty two thousand.

Change line and approval.

Oh my city or is it I don't think so.

Kentucky Avenue is done.

It says on Randall Frame and point out you has to be out.

This is Rand and Kentucky.

Yeah, I took the album.

I have to get my bearings.

Oh, there's the old Kentucky club.

Okay.

Parcel and blue.

Yes, it's the parcel and blue, but let me see what we did because I don't remember looking at this one.

Looks like in 22 we changed it to 752,000.

Right.

And the reason was oh, I took the paving from a heavy duty to crush stone and corrected land pricing.

But I I would have done that for the following year, so I don't know why.

Unless we were too late.

Maybe we were too late, wouldn't it?

24.

24 it went to that.

How is it showing a change?

Oh, I see why.

So we couldn't change it in 23, but we changed it in 24.

Okay.

And apparently our agreement in 22 did not include changing 2023.

Nope.

We only we only did it for 22.

So but carry over.

Yeah, it should have carried over because we did it for the other years.

Okay.

So that you're saying before that blue is can you bring that back up?

Uh-huh.

That's all crushed stone.

Is that what you're saying?

Yes.

I actually drove by this property before I changed it to see if it was crushed stone or so it's basically gravel that we call that the only way we can pick it up is to call it crushed stone.

And I went by to confirm that that's what it was and not concrete because this picture is hard to tell.

I mean you can kind of see where the dirt's wet and stuff, but were those trailers on there or what?

They're all trailers.

That's another big thing that's happening.

Is uh trailer or they're buying land to park trailers?

Okay.

We've got a bunch on her on page like 58 Apex rule.

Are those all vacant lots?

I got one right here.

That's the pike township.

Oh yeah.

They yeah, this is that neighborhood.

Right?

There were some on there last month.

Yeah.

That one's in an like that's a development.

Those are all new houses.

Okay.

Are they?

And they're they're buying those lots for 20,000 hours.

Okay.

And we have assistance.

Oh yeah, that's a better picture.

There's a bunch on here.

I just didn't know.

But wonder what they I thought we yeah, remember now we had last month.

Some of those the other ones.

I guess I got a general question too.

Somebody needs to go out on, right?

You don't just go buy pictures.

Correct.

Okay.

Because somebody say you know agree by taking a look at a picture and a picture can be deceiving too.

Right.

But you do field check.

Okay.

Oh yeah.

I I don't know.

I can't speak for surely, but I know with my people, especially if they say, well, Google Street shows this.

I say no, I need you to put your own physical eyes on it and look at it.

Or somebody submitted the picture.

Right.

If somebody submits the picture, I wanted to have a date in the corner to know when it was taken, or else it could have been.

I mean, they with AAI now you can make anything.

So I want to go see it for myself.

And I think surely, yeah, she says she's the same way.

Okay.

Page 106.

Uh parcel 105, 1657.

311 West Washington.

Says lease to Gabrielle.

This is yours.

Is that the Indian Department of Insurance?

So would this be exempt or is it just six five seconds?

That's not the right parcel.

105, 165, 15.

1657.

I'm dyslexic today too.

That shock took care of me.

It is.

I I am on the struggle bus today, clearly.

Um this is across from the state.

It has an 87%.

And why are we lower?

Why did we lower it?

Because based on age and vacancy.

A negative factor was warranted.

I guess my question would be how much vacancy do they have if they're getting an 87% exemption?

Is it the same?

Nope.

Just as based on age and vacancy, negative fair market value is warranted.

I can double check it for.

So we're gonna table this.

Yeah, let's table this one.

Okay.

It's 87% at least to state 8.

Right.

Yeah.

Right.

And that's my thought.

Yeah, right.

I mean, I know I mean state's paying in rent.

Whether they pay tax cut.

It's I know I just did a walkthrough on this building here.

And that only has like two clients.

I mean, like they have vacant floors.

So that's not exempt of it.

I mean, no, that one doesn't have an exemption though.

But this one does.

So I mean tax run.

I mean, uh, he's getting a break by the exemption, plus he's gonna break by the reduction on assessment, correct?

Yes.

Okay.

So we're gonna take a business and have it look at that again.

Yes, please.

Because they and we just did it says it's the Indiana Department of Insurance that's over there.

So we'll have that tabled.

Okay.

Okay, that's the only question I have.

I'll make a motion accept pages nine through one thirteen.

Second.

See none off there.

Say aye.

Aye.

Yeah, I have it.

New business, uh, pages one fourteen through one nineteen.

So welcome back.

Thanks.

And you got anything on these?

No.

Okay.

Uh I do.

Because she hasn't been here.

So on page one on page one fourteen, you see it says to be heard at Peterboa.

Um is that one of guests?

No, well, yeah, I think I put listed them as a guest.

They got a 114 sent to them to attend the meeting, and they didn't.

Okay.

Um this is one that we tabled a few months ago.

Um that it's the office tower next to Salesforce that's part of Salesforce that has the bank one.

And they filed Salesforce to the IBTR, and we believed that this is part of Salesforce and should be assessed together.

Um they were not in agreement with that.

So I mean, we did have an offer, but when we talked here at the board, it was questioned because they were together.

So what's the recommendation?

Just move it as the agency.

I think I think my recommended well, not I think my recommendation at this point is to sustain the value and they can file to the state, and it will hear it with the other parcel.

Which they already followed today, correct?

They filed to the state on the main parcel.

So my my recommendation is no change to the assessed value.

Okay.

Because we're also getting an appraisal on sales force.

So we need a motion on page 114, 115, and 116.

Yes, please.

I'll make a motion for 114, 115, and 116 parcel 1010526 to sustain assessment as is without agreement, correct?

Correct.

Okay.

Second.

See and none, all in favor say aye.

Aye.

Against the ayes have it.

And I'll make a motion to accept pages one seventeen through one nineteen, correct?

I just did those one fourteen, one fifty, one sixty.

Okay.

Yeah, that's all the recommended ones on there.

So you have a second.

I'll second.

So move second.

Any further discussion?

See an un and all fair say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Against the ayes have it.

We got withdrawals, pages 120 through 135.

Pretty much cut and dry off and make a motion to set page 120 through 135.

Second.

Then move second.

And your first discussion.

See an unallair say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Against the ayes have it.

We got exemptions, pages 136 through 156.

Alyssa.

I'm sorry.

Ash, I'm sorry.

Man.

Messi's wibbing off on me.

Yes.

Hanging out to her.

We don't have anything.

Nothing.

This is Britney.

I don't.

Did you guys introduce Brittany?

I don't know if we ever have.

I think we have.

Brittany Payton.

She's uh our second property tax exemption analyst.

So we had we had Becky.

Right.

Oh.

And then we hired Ashley.

Becky retired, so back to two.

Yep.

All right.

Welcome.

Thank you.

And I think Brittany did most of these recommendations, right?

She did.

So all questions go to Brittany.

Fire away, Steve.

Let's go.

I have a question.

I'll make some up now.

I'll make a motion except pages 136 through 156.

Is that good?

Any further discussion?

Seeing none, all fair say aye.

Aye.

Against the ayes have it.

Any else coming forward a board?

I don't think so.

Uh I know we had discussed last month about doing a um like a legislative update.

Yeah.

Are we gonna do that in April?

She thought about doing it in June or whatever.

Maybe not.

Maybe not April.

Okay.

Well, can I do an April?

Can I do the uh lie tech presentation that I got from the city?

You can do whatever you want, Ms.

All right.

I I mean I do, but I'd like to present.

I thought I had gender.

Yeah, I I guess I should be asking the president.

Um would the board like to see a presentation next month that I got from the city about lie tech properties.

So they're the uh payments in lieu of taxes properties.

So you guys get a better idea of the pilot program, huh?

A pilot program, okay.

So we have a better so the board has a better understanding when they come in.

Who's got one the whole process went?

Sounds good.

Okay.

All right.

So we're adjourned and we'll see you next month.

Yes, and I'll give you the right genders next month.

I said maybe.