We're going to Marin County Property Tax Assessment Board of Appeals meeting started.

First order business is I guess we'll introduce ourselves.

Joe?

Are you sure your microphones are on what we do in the case?

Joe O'Connor, I am county assessor, also secretary of the board and a non-voting member.

Greg Rath now, board member.

Kathy Gold, board member.

Steve Azermy, president of the board.

Brian Barton, board member.

Kevin Robinson, board member.

First, second order business is minutes from April, right?

May and May.

I'll make a motion to accept the minutes from April as written.

That's that good.

So moon's second on your further discussion.

CNN, all fair say aye.

Aye.

We have guests.

Yes.

So the guests are gonna speak today that aren't our attorneys.

Can you stand so I can swear you in?

We'll throw you in all at the same time.

Just two of you.

Okay.

Raise your right hand.

You swear to tell the truth, oh truth, nothing but true, so help you God.

Okay, thank you.

Um, Josh.

Shall we?

Yes.

And that's how it's authority.

Yes.

Yes, so that's uh page five and uh six, seventeen, eighteen, twenty-eight, and twenty-nine.

So it's for twenty-three through twenty twenty-five.

Okay, Leah and Matt on that, right?

Correct.

We have Josh and Matt on it.

So on page, I'm sorry, page.

The first one parcels on page five, one oh five eight seven four five.

And then they have two other parcels 109-0965 and 109-3766.

Okay.

Correct.

These are the ones we've continued like for a few months.

So, go ahead.

Good morning.

My name is Josh Schlakey with Ice Miller on behalf of the Indianapolis Housing Assistant.

Indianapolis Housing Authority.

Um, as you mentioned, we've uh talked about this property a couple of different times.

We've got three parcels across three years.

These parcels all represent what's called the 16 part property.

It's an affordable housing property operated by the Indianapolis Housing Authority.

Um IHA is a city agency, it's a political subdivision, a municipal corporation, it's part of the city.

Um the issues here, you know, this property property's been owned.

Uh the land has been owned by IHA for several years now.

Um the property is leased to a limited partnership that IHA is the general partner of, operates and controls the property.

It's run through that LP structure for federal tax credit purposes as a way to bring federal money into the city to allow IHA to invest in properties like this, which they then use to provide affordable low-income house affordable housing to low income residents of Indianapolis.

Um we know the property has has an exemption, I believe it's 10% that's been on the property for for several years.

We're not sure why it's not 100% exempt.

Um, but you know, we continue to maintain that this property should be exempt under Indiana law, and I don't think there's really much dispute that if the property had filed a Form 136 that it would be exempt, but that form wasn't filed.

Nevertheless, we don't believe that it needs to.

Um Indiana law states that uh municipally owned property does not need to file an exemption to be exempt.

Um, and uh in fact it does it, municipal property is generally not even subject to assessment.

As as we mentioned, we've talked about this property a few different times.

You know, at our our last meeting, some additional questions were asked.

We provided supplemental materials to the board.

Um, I believe you have those.

If not, I have copies.

Um the first uh is an exhibit that talks about all of IHA's operated properties.

The first part is reviewing copies, so then I did not send them any, sorry.

Sorry, no, you're okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah, of course.

I know you're all looking through them right now, just to get that kind of quick summary of what's there.

That first exhibit A is a description of IHA's properties.

Both those that are run through this lie tax structure similar to what 16 Park has used, and also they're kind of 100% fully operated IHA properties.

What you will notice is that in every other property that they have, including those that are structured the same way here, they are tax exempt.

This is the only project that is not treated as tax exempt by the city currently.

The second exhibit exhibit B at the last meeting, I believe Kevin and others may requested information regarding the tax credit allocation through that.

We've included some information on the tax credits there.

Um as I mentioned, this is a you know section 42 LITEC project, so that tax credit structuring is how we get money into the project, right?

That this is outside investors to bring that in, and then we're allowed to use federal tax credits to finance the property.

Um and then the last item here that I would mention, exhibit C.

Uh, we included a letter that corporation council issued about uh the city's corporation council issued 10 years ago an opinion letter to the IHA confirming that this property should be continued to be exempt.

You know, as we look at this project, I think keeping, you know, not not getting a loss for us through the trees here.

Ultimately, if the county doesn't approve this exemption, if this board doesn't approve it, you have the county taxing a city agency.

And the result of that, not only is it contrary to the law, which which we're happy to walk through that, but it also hurts the IHA and takes away funding from the IHA and ultimately the low-income residents they afford, or that they that they provide services to.

So we once again uh um maintain that this property should be exempt and ask this board to approve the appeal that that we filed.

Okay, any questions from the board?

Mr.

Did you have a response or uh yeah, we've I've talked to them several times on this now.

Um he is accurate.

The other properties that are just like this are tax exempt.

I believe if an exemption application was filed on time for these, we would have granted them.

I think we would have questioned why they went from 13% to 100%.

If you remember from the last time where they were here, they originally filed and only got 13% exemption, but it was never put on.

Um so they've been paying the taxes all this time, and I think with uh change in structure in their department, they found it and that they were paying on it.

Back to us.

City legal um has basically said there's nothing, like I just had to work with them.

Um, I didn't work with City Legal on this.

Oh, we asked you.

Do we have their two thousand thirteen application?

And they ask for 10%?

Yeah, whatever it was, yeah.

But then we never put it on.

Do you guys know why they don't?

Is it your opinion you don't have to file 136?

I think the statute does not require the city agency to file a 136.

But I think because of how it's structured, they probably should.

Because IHA I was just asking for his opinion.

Yeah.

So I'm back to my question last time.

So city real estate advisors is the partner in this, right?

I believe they're a limited partner.

They're a partner.

Yeah.

Right, okay.

So they're in this for profit, right?

They're in there to get the tax.

So what so what is the amount that they're not having to pay tax?

What's the amount?

What dollar amount?

No.

Um, my point is that city real estate advisors is benefiting from Marion County tax payers and from the resiness of IHA.

This is helping them also.

So my feeling is why should they not pay tax on the backs of Marion County?

If they were a non-for-profit giving back, then I could see it, but I don't see how that benefits the residents or Marion County taxpayers because of what they're benefiting on.

And I get their their putting back in and they're uh creating housing, but they're also in this for profit for the business.

So explain to me how that's that's fair or that's the way it should be.

I mean, at the end of the day, the project is providing affordable housing to individuals.

When we look at charitable use, you know, I think that's what we need to focus on.

Is the affordable housing that's being provided?

I also think that it's it's important that you know the other alternative here is for the city to go out and take out a loan on much less favorable terms that would ultimately harm Marion County taxpayers more than using federal tax credits to benefit city residents.

So I I think from a policy perspective, if you're saying that Section 42 tax credits can't be used to provide affordable housing, the city's gonna have to go out on worse financial terms to be doing that.

I'm not saying that, I'm saying that this is a for-profit company.

They're not where they where are they showing charitable uh giving?

Because if it was charitable giving, then they would 100% be charitable giving, in my opinion.

That's what we're that's what this board is for.

We have to prove that they're a charitable giving organization.

Now they were doing this, you know, uh off their heart and they just didn't want anything from it, but my in my opinion, and the way I'm seeing it, they're benefiting.

Yeah, they're giving, but they're also benefiting, they're a business.

So if it was a church or or or something like that that was totally given back, then yeah, I'm all for it, but I'm not for the way this is set up.

I'm not I'm just I don't see it.

Yeah, and the tax credits come from Marion County, correct?

The tax credits are federal currency.

Yeah, so Kevin.

Wait, but hold on.

Yeah, so the Marion, I'm gonna have to ask my question.

So the tax credits come from Marion County, right?

From the taxpayers, not from not from city of real estate advisors, but from the people who are paying taxes.

The credits come from the federal government, they're not in the taxpayers.

That's how they get their credits, is from us.

So that's what that's my point.

So if you don't mind, Kevin, this is Matt Anger, I'm Josh Leaky's colleague at Ice Miller.

To your point, right?

IHA doesn't have enough funding to build these projects with their own money, right?

And so quite frankly, they they have two options, right, to build and maintain these projects.

One is to go out and get a third-party loan that are that's gonna be charged uh market rates, and the banks are gonna profit off of that, right?

This is just a very it's a similar concept here that instead of getting a loan from a third party bank where the bank is going to generate some return on that, the the tax credit investors here are from the federal government, right?

I understand that it's the taxpayers that are ultimately paying that, but it's the federal government tax credit program, it's not the state, not the city, not a local tax credit program.

They're just replacing the bank and this structure.

And so I don't I don't disagree with you at all that they're in this to get a benefit, right?

It's a tax benefit to them, but this is a this is a federal program that was set up to help facilitate affordable housing programs because otherwise there wouldn't be enough funding to maintain these affordable housing projects.

So I just wanted to give that context.

Okay, and then how much is the actual uh tax benefit?

Like what they're not having to pay tax on?

What's the dollar amount?

Um, so they're asking us to go back to 2023 on this, so for 23, 24, and 25, the total amount of taxes that would be removed is 626,633.

And that's because they they didn't file and they filed late.

Correct.

And so they're doing this on a 130 objective form asking the board to go back.

They still haven't filed or they did file 26, right?

No.

So those are the only three years you're asking.

Standalone three years.

Those are the it wouldn't go forward being exempt because that they didn't own of those years.

Right.

Or didn't.

Quick question.

Um so this group that Kevin's referring to, they either build or refurbish older buildings, and then do they manage it as well or is that another group?

IHA manage manages the property.

Well, before they sold it, it was an IHA.

So that the group that Kevin's referring to is a limited partner, they're in the so they just refurbish or build and then IHA manages the building.

No, they're just they're a pure investor.

They're not involved in the project at all.

So that they're just buying the tax.

They're not buying or then who manages the property housing agency.

That's why I said yeah, IHA.

IHA is the only one that's acting.

Okay.

And that is a normal structure for all of these low income housing tax and credit programs.

Correct.

And I mean that's how all of them are structured to be able to get off the ground and be funded.

So who built the, they didn't have anything to do with building the building either?

So basically they just use their money and now they're okay.

Okay.

I mean, they all have a private public you know, partnership to build these to get these off the ground.

Okay.

So is this one of parcels?

Yes.

So it didn't look like the ownership change, but because they still own the land, they only sold the buildings.

Correct?

Chris.

So it's the whole improvement on the system.

So what is that deal going forward?

The uh it will be taxable going forward.

Or 26%.

So we're asking for 25, 24, 23.

Correct.

Only three years.

So the land would be taxable?

Moving forward?

I believe it also.

So they're trying to go back three years.

I'm just trying to get the three years prior when um it was owned by Indiana Housing.

But it wasn't owned by them, right?

It was owned by them.

The land's always been owned by them and was still continued to be owned by them.

They owned the building as well, but they've just sold the buildings, not the land, to the new company.

And because we don't do improvements on lease ground where we can put the building on a separate parcel, it all has to go on the parcel of the land, and since that's an Indiana housing thing, it will stay that way, but it will be taxable going forward.

25 payable, 26.

26 payable, 27.

And there's no reasoning as to why they didn't file the last three years.

Well, I think they claim they don't need to.

Right.

Right.

In your opinion, you don't need to file 136, it's on by the city.

Correct.

Correct.

Okay.

Likewise city properties don't schools and whatever.

You know, you see some that knew file that.

But in that argument, the city owns all of it.

They don't have a partner like that, right?

So this is a different kind of scenario, right?

Because they're a lot of partner was on it when it was the one to build it, right?

Or the money.

The partners were to furnish the money to build it, correct?

I mean, the partnership furnishing up to the building, yes.

So they've they so wait a minute.

So the partners furnish the money to build it, but then they ended up owning the land?

No, IHA owns the land.

The partnership doesn't own the land, just any in a housing authority owns the land.

Or any kind of housing agency, sorry, owns the land.

So why would it have pay tax anyway if they didn't own it?

Why would they why would this company pay the tax on the plane?

Because we assessed it.

Right.

So it doesn't make sense.

You mean going forward by what they picked the pack?

Why would they have paid?

Because we didn't have it as a city property.

The way it is coded, we didn't have it coded as as and they had filed for a property tax exemption before.

So we'll code.

We did.

We put it as an apartment.

But they filed a 136 application for 2013 for asking for 10%.

Oh, but it's been carrying exempt since then, right?

No, it was never applied.

So we've been paying taxes since 2013 on it.

Correct.

And I'll address them today, it would go back three years.

Correct.

Why did it assess you?

Why did an assassin for a year?

You can't go back and go back through.

Okay.

Any other questions from the board?

I'll make a motion to allow an exemption for 23, 24, and 25.

That's what we're asking.

Second.

So maybe I moved second and for discussion.

So again, none of all fairs say aye.

Uh aye.

Against.

I'm against.

Okay.

Moving on.

Matt, you have another one?

Sorry, you guys have to put up with me twice today.

Um Matt Anger from Icemiller again.

Uh here on uh personal property tax parcel.

Uh Reagan Express Hotel Partners LLC.

This is parcel.

Parcel B 191-622, it's on page one ninety-three of your agenda.

The Hills and Gardens and Airport.

Yes.

And I have with me.

Somebody we might need to clean something up here.

So all that's on the agenda is a 23 20.

And it should be 24 and 25, or all of the 23.

They were all filed together for the same reason.

Right.

No, no, no.

This is a this is a business personal property audit that occurred.

For the health and garden that he's getting right now.

So basically I've corrected.

I think what we're asking you to decide on today is if we can consider this appeal timely filed or not.

Okay.

Correct.

Okay.

So they had an audit.

Right.

Um, the audit discovery was sent.

Um the deadline to file the appeal based on the discovery findings would have been November 10th of 2025.

So 45 days after.

Right, 45 days after the after the mailing.

And then um when did you actually file that?

We filed at the end of April.

Probably just when you got your tax.

Okay, now there you go.

That's but can we do we need to do something that to get 2425 included into this?

I think you they just say okay that they'll do that.

Okay.

And it's so whatever motion you make, make it to 2425.

Gotcha.

And this is just personal property, this is not real estate.

But I did put up where it's at so you can see.

Go ahead.

Thank you.

I have uh Greg Shockett with me today.

He is the president of Choctaw Hotels who owns and manages this project.

So if you have any questions for him, he's happy to address them.

Uh as Gabe mentioned, uh tax management associates uh began an audit uh of the personal property tax returns for 23, 24, and 25 assessment years.

Um the hotel was engaged with tax management associates on that audit.

The hotel never received a Form 113 detailing the change in assessment at the location of the hotel at its headquarters.

It did not receive the notice that Gabe mentioned.

It asked when it it first received notice that there had been a change in assessment when it got its tax bill for the 25k 26 assessment.

And so that's what prompted filing the appeal to the county.

Once it did receive the tax bill, it reached out to both the assessor's office and to TMA to ask for evidence of the filing of that form 113, and one couldn't be provided.

Additionally, we asked for evidence to support their changes, specifically TMA to provide their work papers to support their changes, and they couldn't provide that as well.

So we don't even know why the changes were made, and we didn't receive notice of the changes either.

And so what we're here today to do is just to ask that the taxpayer and the county sit back down and work through the appeal and treat it as a timely basis because uh the 45-day clock for filing appeal doesn't start until you receive the notice.

And since they didn't actually ever receive a notice, the actual change in assessment.

We could come here today and argue that it was invalid in its entirety, and just go back to the prior set value.

I think under the law we have a pretty good argument on that front, but in reality, today we're just here to say let the taxpayer and let the county sit down and work through the appeal because we don't think that there's actually a basis for the significant increase in assessed value.

Um and so that that's the that's the ask today.

It's just to treat the appeal as timely and let the county and the taxpayer work through the appeal.

Okay, any questions from the board?

Yes, Mr.

Brian, is that okay with uh staff?

That would be an answer for Gabe.

Okay, Gabe.

Or Joe.

I mean, we usually have a lot of grace on appeal, especially if I mean in Marion County, we rely on the tech on the June 15th for real estate and give a lot of grace uh to those who file appeal.

So I don't know if that helps make a decision.

I mean, we did mail the notice.

I have it here.

Mailed it on September 26th, 2025.

It did come back.

We don't we don't certify mail anything, so it's asking for evidence.

That's something we're gonna have.

So the TMA do it for 24 and 25 too.

Yes.

So a lot of notices were sent.

It's one package.

One package, yeah.

I don't know what we're sent to.

So Matt, have you guys still do you have to see this thing right here?

Yeah, did it where did it go, Gabe?

933 North Meridian Suite 203.

Yeah, that's the head.

Which is the mailing address we have.

And they would have put that address on their 103 and 104 since it's a self-reporting.

Well kind of automatically sometimes, so questions for the board.

I'll make a motion to accept a late filament for 23 late appeal, right?

So they want to appeal it so we can review it.

I don't know if they're what the values are set.

Correct.

I have a late appeal.

So they can file.

Second.

It's been moved seconded for discussion.

So you're none all in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

I guess.

You guys have it.

Thank you.

Thank you for your time today.

I appreciate it.

Nancy.

What's the parcel.

Yep, five, nine.

I'm sorry.

Not yet.

I'm sorry.

So this is on page two ninety-three of your agenda.

It's for a 2024 form 136.

And Ashley has the information I don't need on this one.

They filed for a 2025 exemption.

It was approved.

They received the tax bill earlier this year for a zero liability for the current year, but then they had a pass-do balance and wasn't sure where it came from.

They reached out to me and I told them that they needed to file an application, but it was an untimely filed 2024 application.

If it would have been filed on time, it would most likely be.

Good morning.

My name is Nadia Miller.

I serve as the operations director at the Junior School located on the northwest side of Indianapolis.

I've had the pleasure of getting to know Ashley.

When we the reason why the 2024 filing was late and also 2025 was because the school had moved locations.

We sent them both in 24 and 25.

25 was accepted, 24 wasn't.

The genius school is a small nonprofit, faith-based uh private school.

Um the I think the demand was like the payment demand letter was like nine thousand dollars or so.

So I'm just here today to ask if the 2024 uh property uh tax exemption document that we did indeed did file, but we did file late, actually both of them, um, that it would be accepted.

Um just based on the funding and vouchers and all the other things that we have to do.

It's a pretty hefty note for the institution.

Okay, so you have any.

What's the uh is it real estate?

Personal property, but is the real estate parcel exempt?

Uh I don't know.

Do you own the real estate?

Located inside of a church, no.

Okay.

We pay uh a lease agreement too.

Okay.

So we're just talking about personal property.

Yes.

That's 311,000.

Is that the assessment or is it shows on the paper for 24?

Yes, it shows 319 and 820.

And I don't know if that was a I'm not sure if that's accurate.

But I think either.

It was new for 24.

Yeah, that's what they file.

So they did file?

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

So they did file 24103 and 104.

So they move from somewhere else.

Yes, sir.

So in the 136th on the other one.

I'm sorry, did you file 136 on the old school?

I am not the location.

What's the address of the old school?

It's 78 or um, it was located on Sherman Drive.

I'm not I need to look at the document.

I don't know that's under the address.

I know what we're located at now.

Was it under the same name?

Same thing.

The genius school.

No, no.

What do you have?

Let me just look at some of my email.

I apologize.

Okay, they filed it under our DBA ignited achievement academy, DBA the genius school.

Well, that might not matter anyways, but yeah, yeah.

Both of them were filed in the same name.

Okay.

Questions from the board?

I'll make a motion.

Go ahead.

Mr.

Chairman, I moved that we approve this exemption.

Second.

And move, second or further discussion.

See and none, all in fair say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Against the eyes have it.

Thank you.

Thank you all very much.

Thank you.

So we have unpaid.

2024 we need to help you get off of that.

Mike.

Come on.

What's this?

14.

6938.

Mr.

White?

Oh.

This is uh.

Yes.

That's on page 308 of your agenda.

And this is a 2026 form 136 exemption issue.

Um, Scott and Mike, yes, sir.

Good morning.

My name is Scott Frisell.

I'm an attorney with Creek DeValt and the representing Cornerstone Lutheran Church with this exemption request.

The parcel at issue is a townhome with an attached uh garage and patio.

The parcel is used by the church as a parsonage for its viscer.

Um the property was uh gifted to the church in October of 2025 and has been used ever since then as a parsonage, and so we filed under Indiana Code 61.1021B requesting 100% exemption beginning with the January 1st, 2026 exemption and attached to the application was an affidavit confirming these items that the parcel is used, it's owned by the church, it's occupied and used as it by its viscer as a parsonage, sorry, vicar, and Mike is here on behalf of the church as well if you have any questions.

So basically it's just a parsonage.

Yes, sir.

Any questions from the board for the taxpayer?

Ashley.

Once I reviewed the filing, I discussed it with Missy, we just decided it was probably best for the board to be correct.

The church is not in Marion County.

The church is up in Hamilton County.

This is about next to the church.

I guess that's becoming more conventional with churches that they don't have a parsonage right by the house.

Um but because of the last one we had, I mean it was a little different on the last one because it wasn't in the church's name, and this one is in the church's name.

We still felt like it should come to the board for a decision.

And this only impacts the 26pay 27 bill, right?

Yes, the first exemption request is with the 26 pay 27.

There's nothing that we've we've searched it, there's nothing that specifically says it has to be next to the church.

Um I think in this case it's a little better because he signed an affidavit saying it's used by the church, which is a requirement in the statute.

And I probably don't.

It's owned by the church.

It's owned by the church.

So I had one before was owned by the pastor.

Okay, give it to the church.

Yeah, it was gifted.

It was gifted to the church, and so it was the most beneficial property to use.

Yeah, correct.

Okay.

How far away is it?

It's about 20 minutes away, 20 to 30, right?

Yeah, but we have five churches, one on York Street and one Warren.

So we have two churches in Marin County.

And you're the victor for both of those.

Yes, they serve all five.

Okay.

Any other questions from the board?

I'll go ahead and make a motion to uh allow this to be exempted for 26.

Okay, one twenty-seven.

So we're sorry, for discussion.

Seeing none, all fairs say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Against the eyes have it.

Thank you for coming in.

Thank you.

Okay.

I have to remove something.

And we're gonna see.

Parcel 8018542.

Yes.

This is a 130, 2025, 130 exemption.

It's on page 229 of your agenda.

I have like little information sheets about the property.

It's a converted house, turn into like an office in Broaderville, but it's not in the best location.

And our property tax has increased over the years.

So the actual purchase price was 190 in 2021, about five years ago.

And from then on, it has not been renovated.

It's just been cosmetics.

And for 2025, we've been proposed a value of 518 600.

Which is a 173% increase from the 247.

Which was last year.

So talked to the assessor office.

They're incredibly nice and very helpful.

Thank you so much for that.

That was the best experience we had.

And they came in with a counteroffer of 319 after actually visiting the property.

319,600.

Yes.

Yeah.

And I feel like that is still a bit high compared to the value of the actual property and the issues that it has just being in Broaderville.

It's not even on College Avenue.

It's like in between several other office buildings and a gas station.

As you can see on the front page, the road to get to it, the actual street is impassable in like a standard car because so many potholes.

So it's a little low-lying property.

So every time there's heavy rain, like this week, there's like flooding inside the garage, basement, and constant sewer issues that we have to pay for.

So compared to everything else around it, it's actually being taxed a bit higher.

I gave you guys a package of all the tax information from like 2021 and 2020.

And it's been assessed like a 2021, it increased once again.

I mean 2022, it increased to 257, which still feels a bit high for what it's been.

But if you can on the next sheet, this little XL sheet, I compared it to several of the properties.

One, two, four properties surrounding it.

So there's a big office building on the right of it, and another one on the left.

I took the square feet of the land and square feet of the improvements and compared to what it would be if we were those properties.

And those both of those are much nicer office buildings, as you can see.

Like this one next door, it's huge, modern, very nice on the inside, an actual office, not just a conversion.

The next one's the veranda, and that is like a four-story building being taxed, like approximately lower than us.

It's more modern, it's newer, even has a dentist office.

They actually even gave out their amount able to get the rent per square feet.

Uh we're currently renting the property at $16, $17 per square feet.

Next door to us, literally next door, is a garage that rents for $18 square feet.

So we're less valuable than the whole garage of that property.

So we're basically being compared to uh super nice actual property on college, and I included this one, and this is very high-end.

I've probably seen it on college, and we are way in a different league compared to that.

So, as you can see, last few years we had to pay a penalty on taxes because we're paying them late because we didn't have enough money in our bank account.

And any property increase would just kind of cause us to go bankrupt.

So I'm just asking for a fair assessment.

Uh talk to realtors, we're in the 200 to 240-ish range for it to sell right now, plus we need a lot of maintenance on the building that we've been deferring, and just want to get the assessment back to like the level we can actually afford, and that's actually the value of the property itself.

So it's being used as an office right now.

Yes, and which bit so you're the owner?

I am part of the owner, yeah.

And do you leave do you run your own business out of this?

Yes.

Okay, so well, we rent it out.

100% of it is leased out, yes.

And is it just a triple net lease or gross lease?

How's your lease structured?

Is it in here somewhere?

Uh no, we don't have that in there.

So you said it's $17 a square feet.

Yeah.

Is that is that net net?

Is that a net lease or gross lease amount?

That is the total lease amount, yeah.

So they pay, do they pay all the expenses, the utilities, the or is this a gross rent?

What do you what do you cover as a landlord?

As a landlord, we covered uh all the maintenance, including outdoor equipment, any building issues.

What are they responsible for?

They're responsible for utilities, utilities, that's it.

Utilities, and we pay the taxes too.

Okay, and that's in your lease.

You don't how taxes addressed, you pay them all or not?

We just pay everything.

Okay.

All taxes.

And you rent, and you're you collect $17 a square foot lease.

Yes.

And how many square feet is it?

$2,100.

It's $2,148.

But the issue is that it's a house conversion and it's not fully finished.

So they had a there's a bedroom, a second bathroom that's not able to be used, some closets, and a front entrance area, including that square feet.

So it's actually just saying empty in that area.

So it's 2,000, but it's like 1,500 actually usable or maybe even less.

Do you have a letter from the realtor stating the value with itself?

I do not.

This was like conversation.

They said how much around two to two fifty is what they can sell it for us.

And what what sell it as what?

Uh a house or a build like a the way it currently is.

The way it currently is.

Did you see the analysis?

Did they base that off the income approach off of sales analysis?

They base it off sales and property condition.

Did they take uh consideration the rent the rental?

The rent, or just basically selling it.

Just selling it, yeah.

We're not taking rent in consideration.

Ryan.

Are you go ahead, Brian?

So I thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

But I gotta jump in there.

Um if I understood a stance on you guys did go back out and reassess, and you you lowered it.

We yeah, so from what uh, we offered uh sorry, I'm a mirror fisher of staff on the nervousie uh we've been working with him for this.

So the 319600 we came up with was based off the field uh visit that we did do back in May, I believe.

Um because there is water damage in the garage and in the basement.

Um there was like on an interior wall where it it I think we said it used to be a porch, but they had closed it in.

There is a little bit of Boeing on that wall, and there's a whole we do have pictures um that we took while we were there.

I also supplied you guys with this packet.

Those were sales that I also came up with after uh we had come up with the 319 600 based on the field valuation, but those sales also do support technically a higher value.

I think the median of those like 10 sales that I have is like 600,000, which I'm not at all recommending a value of 600,000.

Um, we're just recommending the value of three hundred and nineteen six hundred.

And where were you before you got to the three nineteen?

We were assessed at five ninety-two, six hundred.

So we went down 200,000, some odd dollars.

Yes, yeah, I think and you're went in another 50,000 on here.

Yes, but in previous years, I says that's 240, what is two fifty seven?

So 2024 is two fifty-seven, 300.

Yeah, and it should be noted that like the offices he's showing are not really comparable to a house.

These are actually what he's showing are our office buildings that were built as offices, have higher square footage than him.

Um, you stay in but they're also in the right.

Um I'm saying that we're being charged too much compared to those, and they're literally next to us.

So they're in the same square, basically.

So he's using this property here, this property here, this one, this.

Yes, so the assessor office.

And like these three sold together, I believe.

And I would also like to note, um, because we did discuss go he, I believe we're was at one point wanting to go back down to the 2024 value.

I do feel like it's important to note that because of the 25 cost tables that came out for Indiana was why I was unwilling to just carry the 2024 value forward, and that's why there is a slight increase between those two.

Um office space went up about uh if I remember correctly, $40 a square foot from $24 to $25.

It was a large increase.

Question, so because he is running it as an office, doesn't that put him in a different box?

Versus somebody living in the house or as a residence.

You're making he's making a profit off of you or not, but you're renting and making a property.

But he's being assessed as a commercial property.

We're still pricing the building out as a house because it's still technically a house, you can still sell it as a house and be used as a house.

So he's getting the residential pricing.

Um, but we're doing the commercial land pricing and everything on that property.

He's paying tax on commercial.

So he's paying three percent of the assessed value.

Okay, gosh.

So what business is in there?

It's commodity transportation inc, and they're just a great broker currently.

Yeah, I know the name is Broadway Paul Events, that's uh what we try to start earlier.

Are you affiliated with the business?

No, so you're just strictly the landlord, one of the landlords, one of the landlords.

Okay.

So when we went, I didn't we didn't take a picture of the room that they're using, but it's like the living room is what they're using as their office space.

They had two setups where there's like four desks around each other, and so they have like eight people working there plus a Q-Dog.

Um but so a lot of the properties in Broaderville are better converted in storefronts as well that are being compared to.

Question, so do you own the building?

Uh yes.

So you don't own you have a strong mortgage on it?

Yeah, we have a mortgage on it.

Okay.

And uh what do you rent what's the amount you're running for?

The rent just increased to three thousand a month, roughly there, two thousand and ten dollars a month, I believe.

That's how much you they pay you for rent?

Yes.

So how long have you owned the building?

Since 2021.

What'd you pay for it?

190,000.

And how long was your lease for?

Uh our lease ends in September.

Okay.

And the three thousand dollars barely covers expenses that we have with the building as well, including mortgage and all the fixes and maintenance required for it.

Amir, did you have sales of other converted homes into offices?

I believe all the sales I have, so I have in that little packet I provided for you guys.

There's like 10 sales in there.

I believe all of those are houses that have been converted to commercial properties.

I think some of them might be stores.

I try to mostly find offices, but I believe all of them are houses that have been converted.

There is an outlier of what was it, eight hundred thousand?

Yeah, the first one, the first sale that I have the six three three one Carleton Avenue, that sale price is eight hundred and ten thousand dollars.

Um,000.

But they do have a similar year built, similar ish square footage.

They're actually a little bit less in square footage.

Um that sale was for twenty twenty four.

Right.

And that one I don't understand how that building is worth that much money.

So it's what changes were made.

You just lower the condition.

Yeah.

Yep.

Yeah, so it's in very poor condition.

And the tax burden on us means we can't improve it, which is what we really want to do.

What do you want to do?

So we want to, we're gonna need mechanicals really soon.

So ACD heating is due because it's at least 1980 something right now.

We want to fix the flooding issue even more.

We spent a lot of money on the drain, that did not work.

So that requires a lot of landscaping.

A roof is coming up, siding is really old as well, and as it gets festo siding, we think, so we haven't moved it yet.

As well as windows are either 1920s or 1980s, and they require front porch.

You can see light through it, so that means a lot of effort and work, steps, landscaping, removing that tree on the side because that's really old and falls down every store, and that's partial list.

And what's all when not when all that's done?

What's at work?

You really don't know, but uh might be like the three hundreds.

Maybe, yeah, so and all the windows of the basement also need replacement, so like we are yeah, that's that's a road right next to it.

That's a bunch of used to get through.

Yeah, I used to live on the block and then those quads on the 64th in May.

There's two quads around here.

Or that's resolved software through 19, and you're asking what?

We're asking for like 250.

Which is what it was in 24.

Yes.

24 is actually 2579 or 257.3, sorry.

And broader whole sales have actually been going up.

Uh yeah.

I mean it's a high rent district district in that area.

I mean, just a quick slick income approach.

Spits out around 300,000 if you just take what is 2000 random wise.

Okay.

What condition did you say you have to do?

We how do you say you lower it?

And uh, I said, I would run around.

Average, yes.

I mean, we could put it to fair, we wouldn't put it at four or very poor because we're also taking off for um taking into consideration on the land, like the road.

Uh, even though they have access in the back to a paved road, that technically the road that's on there is their main drive in.

Right.

Yeah, Mr.

Chairman, and sir, thank you for your testimony.

Um, appreciate your concerns about the property, what you need to do.

I really think that's outside his board's charge, but I do appreciate the fact that this uh assessor staff went back and lowered it for you, and so I'll make a motion to affirm uh the staff's recommendation.

That's 319, right?

319 600.

Okay, it's gonna move second and first question.

And none, all pairs say I.

So it's at 319 and 600.

Thank you for done.

Uh, small.

Uh Aaron Schmaller, attorney with Chris and Cappos here representing the Metropolitan School District of Decatur Township.

These are parcels 2001 602, and 2010, 68.

Correct.

On pages eight, two, sixteen, and three oh eight.

So we're talking for years 23 to 25.

216 and 308.

Go ahead.

Go ahead, sir.

Okay, thank you.

School was granted two parcels by donation in 2020 with the reservation of life estates for the owners.

The one owner passed away in 2020, the other passed away in 2023.

When the affidavit affidavits of death were recorded in 2023, there was a mistake in how the transfer was made, and so that the parcels remain taxable, even though the school is a tax exempt by statute.

So what we're asking for, we did file a form one thirty on both parcels for the two years.

I can help fill in some length.

So I've been in discussions with the Cater Township School, their CFO, and just how this came about, like he said there was a life to state granted, it was a house.

And so I think what he mentioned earlier is that the school district failed to file the proper paperwork to make that the tax exempt status recognizable to the county.

So I tried to figure out how do we get this done administratively.

In the past, we've had like a county commissioners be able to vacate taxes, and when we researched the law, we found out it's not in the purview of the county commissioners.

Uh so that process could not be handled at a county commissioner's meeting.

It could be handled through the DLGF.

And I know the school district may or may not have reached out to the DLJ, but I think the only way that we can move forward with uh this tax issue is in front of the PITABOA.

Um, so that you know, I I think it's you know I think it should be tax exempt uh based on being a school.

I think what really muddied the waters was the life estate, and then a follow-up with that needed to happen that didn't, so that's kind of why we're in the boat right now.

They're in this boat.

And the the property has since been changed to tax exempt, so for going forward it's tax exempt.

We're just asking for the two years where the school did pay property taxes so it needs to transfer to the school.

Yes, you need your file.

Any questions from board?

I'll make a motion accept an exemption for 23 and 24.

Yes, 23 and twenty four for both parcels.

It's been a move second, and your first question.

CNN, all in favor say aye.

Aye.

I guess the eyes have it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I get great, but Ryan has so much a lot.

Yeah, too bad.

Okay, that's some guess we have written down here.

We have any other guests here.

Just staff is sitting back there.

But on your cover page, number eight for central hues parcel one oh six one one oh one.

This is a request for a one-thirty-six exemption to be reopened for twenty twenty-three and approved by the board.

Correct actually?

Yes.

And she can explain why she's asking for that.

So former staff was reviewing the application and requested documents from Central Hughes.

They sent it to the staff member, but it was never like they would basically sell it.

The application was denied.

Reopen and a couple approved.

We just do it all at once.

That would be great.

Correct.

They are the school that teaches construction for free to use in the community.

Okay, so it's a school.

Okay.

Any questions for the board?

I'll make a motion to accept parcel one oh six one one oh one.

Correct?

Yes.

Ben move secondary first session.

See and then all there say aye.

Against the ayes have it.

How about number four Antonio?

Rally.

Um parcel one oh four eight seven nine two on page two twenty-eight.

Yeah, for uh for uh the guests.

Um so yes, let's table that one.

I thought she wanted that one on though, but I don't know if this is what it's talking about.

This parcel.

And telling them an ARI.

Oh, it's a homestead issue.

I know Shirley asking to have it on the agenda.

I thought I think karma can be a long set of uh, no.

Yes, people.

Well, it looks like it's solely a homestead issue.

And they're talking twenty-five page twenty-six, yeah.

I mean, I think we would be the old author.

So, let's table it for aware.

But it looks like he's had the homestead in place since 2022.

There's a quick claim deed in 2024.

It probably failed to file.

I mean, according to him, he's been living there since 2022 and never stopped.

There's a quick claim d that interrupted the homestead, which you know maybe would have required him to refile it.

We got more on probably on the list on the agenda I saw on the table.

Yes, it was like email.

So you're saying, is that your training?

So the email that you said the other one look like cooling.

It was like can we just fix it?

Or does it require a field?

And then you said to add it to the agenda.

Did she fix it?

That's a good question.

It's gonna be for twenty-five.

Yeah, I guess.

Oh, that's the table, so we can confer with the author's office.

So we're on table parcel one of four eight seven nine two.

Correct.

So now we got pages one through thirty-five, number of appeals, objective.

East and tried down by Elivel.

Yeah.

Yep.

That's what I think paid start.

Let's take three, yeah.

Um, thirty.

So it's removed some VR items.

Took a hundred and six or two hundred and twenty-five thousand off.

It's a house, isn't it?

Yes.

I think that might just it might just be a misleading.

They took the pool off.

Um, do you go?

I first want to commercial for me, but it's fill it in, right?

So we took off detached garage and a utility ship no we kept the utility shed.

We took off a car shed and a swimming pool, but those were only what's the bar on there?

50 something.

557.

And that was just built in 25.

I mean, they bought it for 165 in 2023.

On the house, they bought the whole property.

Yeah.

Property in blue.

Yes.

So they kept the utility shed in the barn.

Okay, but it shows improvements class three is zero.

I mean, pretty much got a hundred and sixty-five thousand five hundred.

When you said it paid four gig one sixty-five.

Okay, and you got it for one eighty-eight.

Yes.

We took off.

We took off another bill, another improvements that was 225,000.

Correct.

But I don't know what that.

So we took off a type two barn that was 174.

Took off the swimming pool.

The utility shed.

So that's I mean the barn is gonna be the biggest thing.

174,400 was the barn that we took off.

You took off 174,000 improvements.

Just for the barn.

Yeah.

Okay, all right.

I normally don't get in the minutiae, like one of my some of my colleagues do, but who was that barn built?

Uh the one that was at 174,000.

We had year built as 2024.

Oh, okay.

And they would already tear it tear it down.

I think it was priced incorrectly.

And so they changed it.

Because this was built.

And we picked that up as a type three barn.

So they called it the wrong type barn.

Okay, parcel.

I'm sorry, page 33, parcel 504, 4858.

504 4858.

504 4858, yes.

I need to get out of here.

504, 4858.

Based on an arm's length sale, she lowered it to 25,000.

Yeah, I think this was a settlement.

Um see that 25,000 dollar purchase price.

That was just for that lot.

And we had it we we were trying to price it at 63, uh based on comps.

Oh, so it for 130.

No, that's not the lot.

That's that is the house.

The house.

Okay.

The lot sold for 25, yeah.

Well, and I think just to reach a settlement because he had a sale in the window.

We were giving the twenty-five thousand for that year, and then after that it goes to sixty-three, okay.

I saw it sale.

I thought, well, that's awful.

Yeah, that was the house.

They own that whole.

They own three of those.

They own all these, and this.

This is their primary residence, and then they lease these two out.

So where's oh okay, tops in there and what's the other road?

Rum Cherry.

So that right, okay, I don't know.

Yeah, you know where that is now.

Yeah.

Well, not new, but they're fairly new.

Yeah.

Okay.

I'll make a motion to extract pages one through 35.

Second.

So we move secondary for discussion.

Yes.

Yes.

I haven't left the can be resident yet.

That just kind of we just stopped talking about it, but is there a math error there?

It might be right.

We priced it the wrong barn.

We called it a type two barn, which is like a one-story flat bank or something, um, instead of the type three, which is more of the generic just the straight barn that they probably use as a garage or something or a tool shed.

So the rejection of a quarter of a million dollars is accurate then in that that property still.

Correct.

Because we also had a swimming pool on there that's not there, um so you're saying it's based on you you did the wrong thing with the barn, classified it wrong and minus the swimming pool.

Correct.

All right.

And I sold it for and bought it for one, one hundred eighty-eight or one sixty five one sixty five.

All right I'll move on.

Okay.

I move seconded all in favor say aye.

Aye.

Against the eyes have it got subjective appeals page 36 through 158.

Of course she was not here this month and we're asking about residential stuff.

But she is watching so you can all wait to share place.

You're watching stuff like that.

Yeah.

Page seventy three parcel one oh six one five seven four the same owner as that one we tabled earlier.

And this one they agreed they had an agreement on this one to based on air area comparable properties and sales of uninhabitable properties.

So is it uninhabitable now or is it we know?

According to him it was deemed uninhabitable at the time of purchase and ultimately had the house torn down in 2024 and built a new one so it's like 1574.

So for 2024 we had a livable dwelling there.

And there was an uninhabitable dwelling there.

In 2024 they tore it down and constructed a new house.

So it's the sess for 2025.

The new house is the house for 2025.

Oh yeah I did it right there.

Yes.

Yeah.

So that's the new house in 2020 there's a wrong set credit on that one and not the other one or no homestead on this one.

This is what we have okay.

Page one fifteen parcel one oh one five eight one two I think this one's mine.

Um 1429 North New Jersey.

Yes.

So we sold for a hundred or five hundred ninety thousand second twenty one you got on for four eleven nine hundred now you went down since then uh that was these are four unit apartments and so we're uh we looked at the income on this one, and I I drove past the property.

I didn't go into it, but I drove and I looked at some other properties um that are similar to that.

I mean it's probably going to increase again eventually because the sales in the neighborhood are going up in that neighborhood downtown I certain neighborhood yeah I don't think that neighborhood will kind of narrow one down that much, didn't it?

Uh no, we were.

I think this was in the wrong, this was in the wrong neighborhood at the time, so it was getting apartment trending and not um just the four-unit trending.

So like it was getting the 2.9% trend factor.

Okay.

So I questions I had, so I'll make a motion except pages 36 through 158.

Second.

It's gonna move secondary for discussion.

Seeing then all fairs say aye.

Aye.

We got a suggestive appeals here about uh officer pages 159 through 229.

Oh let's standing on these?

No.

Oh yeah, unless Joe wants to break down.

Oh, he is sorry.

I tried to wait.

You're fine.

We were gonna make Joe actually be the second time.

We made a motion to one more.

I made a motion on the other ones 36 through 158.

Yes.

Gotcha.

It's been approved.

Now we're on 159 through 229.

So she had anything on these, she said no, so I'll make a motion to accept pages 159 to 229.

Second.

Can you say with the exception of the ones that you already decided?

Because I don't know if any of the two be heard are under this one or not.

Yeah, so with the exception of the windows.

We already tabled or heard or whatever.

Do we have a second?

Second.

Moon second, all fairs say aye.

I have it.

We got withdrawals, pages two thirty through two ninety-one.

I need to abstain from besides that one, I'll make a motion accept pages two thirty through two ninety-one.

Second.

So move and secondary for discussion.

Seeing none on fairs say aye.

The eyes have it.

Do we need to do we need to make a separate motion on year one?

I think it's just I was just thinking that.

I don't think we ever have.

Okay.

I just I made a motion to extend that one.

So we got 292 through 344, which except as ones we've already done.

Anyone that, Ashley.

Page 296, parcel 1005.

Prosecutor's office.

Did we find out?

I had reached out to them to confirm, and they said the prosecutor has not moved.

You said the public defender has moved out to the justice center.

And then I confirmed the percentages as well with them.

So the prosecutors still over here.

Yes.

They are, and I can say I confirmed with people in the prosecutor's office.

Okay.

And send you on the park garage.

Okay.

And a couple of the departments we had, Fox Harbor, Capitol Place, Berkeley.

Yes.

Did we review whether they're terrible still or I'm supposed to be the uh new management company is supposed to be coming out in the next couple of months to show me around again?

He reached out at the beginning of the year and said he wanted to wait till who was warmer to show me.

Now I can tell you, I haven't been up north, but I have gone by the south side ones.

Um, so like Berkeley Commons, they've redone the clubhouse, they put in a brand new play set, and they were um updating all the apartments there, and they were also updating um the apartments on uh cap at Capitol Place, but we haven't been up to see this next time I want to go north and see Lake Nora or the hub what it's called the hub now.

Um so I'll be doing that in the next.

So do you just consider low-income housing or are they considered charitable?

They're low-income housing.

Are they on the agenda?

Yes.

Do we want to table them and I'll set up an appointment before we grant them?

I can take Ashley and Brittany with me so that they know what's going on if they feel like they don't know what's going on right now.

I didn't realize this has been a long drama since I first started.

I didn't realize they oh yeah, we can get in touch with Michael Red.

Okay.

Yeah.

So we just want to table his?

Yeah, just table all the ones that are Michael Reds.

Okay.

So I'll make a motion except pages two ninety-two through three forty-four with exceptions.

We just tabled.

And Michael Red and the ones we heard earlier.

Yep.

That's so good.

Second.

So I move secondary for discussion.

Seeing none on fairs say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

We have discussion on union halls, Joe.

Yeah, so there's just an inquiry on whether union halls are utilizing their halls in a charitable purpose without any real substance of or evidence.

So I just felt obligated to bring it before the board to see like what you guys want to do.

We probably needed legal here today to see.

I mean, there was some court case cases mentioned, and I don't know if that changed anything.

Um I guess I just wanted to put it on the agenda, have a discussion, you know, in the meeting, um, and maybe you know what we can do is I can get with uh Office of Corporation Counsel trying to CERN what if any cases came up that changed the status uh or how we perceive unions as using as a charitable purpose or not, or whatever educational and I don't know what they're falling under in terms of tax exempt status, but um, you know, I guess if if it if it deems worthy enough to take a closer look, you know, we could send staff out, um and I guess on some level I mean invite the union halls to explain to us, you know, exactly what they're doing um or how they're using the space.

But that was it on on that.

How many do we do we have any idea how many union halls are in Marion County?

I mean, probably 40 or so, I feel like, but that might be high.

I will say we also I don't know if you're aware of the Marin County Clerk or Circuit, which court was it?

Steve, do you remember the the Marin County courts did a uh for ruling saying that they were exempt?

I don't know that technically that can stand from them.

Oh, an injunction?

Yeah, yeah.

So yeah, there's a I think there was an injunction back in 2001, I believe.

I mean, or for that one, sometimes I know it was prior to me taking off the right.

It was with Greg Bows, and I remember they came in and they cited that and we just haven't been.

That's why they're all granted back then.

That's all they why they were all granted back then, and then we haven't looked at them since.

So that come back up, you think?

Well, I think it's it's up to you guys whether you think you want to call them in or or have us look at, you know.

I think the crux of the argument is are they using this for educational purposes and training, which I think is how they're qualifying under the law for the exemption, right?

Um, even if they're even using them.

Yeah, I mean, if you went out if you went to a church today, which is exempt, or you know, most churches are exempt on a Friday or let's say a Tuesday afternoon.

Like what would be going on there?

Nothing.

Uh, but so I don't know, you know, if it operates under the same premise, like, do they use these for training?

I assume they do.

I have no idea.

I haven't been in a union hall in years, so I don't know what goes on.

I mean, we have to just take what they present to us in their application and you know, under oath as to how they're you utilizing these spaces.

Um, I think this bridge has been crossed before and you know, they they're they are receiving exemptions.

I think there's been the case was around around I want to say either LaPort or Porter County.

There was some questions about a union up there, and so I think this may be where the inquiry is coming from, like are these being utilized for an exempt purpose under the law.

Um, but I mean I guess if we want to if you want me to talk with OCC and kind of see how the if any new court cases change anything, um, and then you guys can choose to do it, you know.

And maybe that's the next step is trying to get with legal counsel, figure out that, and then if you guys want to take next steps in the I mean, I guess either calling unions in here to retestify that what they're using the space for is qualifying.

I I think I would be curious as you're doing that homework uh how would if what would you do if a union hall rents the space out and makes money off of it?

Do you do something?

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

I mean, if they are profiting off an exempt space, then that would be something.

I mean, I guess if we were gonna do something like that, it'd probably be worth a while just to have them all come in.

I mean, if they all I mean there are separate unions with separate maybe representation, but uh so yeah, I mean maybe we'll just get with legal counsel um and see if anything's changed, and then maybe talk about this in the next meeting, and you know, if there's a need that you think we need to dive deeper into their exemption status, we can.

I will say they haven't had to file a new application in quite some time because of the statute that says once you get it, you always get it.

So we haven't seen anything in a while, so it might be after you find out.

I mean advertisers just haven't send them a letter sending and refile.

I don't think they're required to refile.

Okay.

But we could have, we can ask them to come in and justify the correct.

Yeah, okay.

So how'd this come about?

Somebody just how this come about where it needs to be looked at.

Well, I don't want to name names, but someone sent me a it was brought up basically.

Yeah, okay, that's all.

And I just felt obligated to say, Well, if there is a question, you know, I'm gonna have to bring it before the board and see how they want to.

I mean, I assume nothing's changed in unions operations.

I have no idea about unions or what their operations are, but I assume whatever they qualified for under the initial exemption, they're still doing the same thing.

Now, whether that is you know operating under an exempt status or not, I mean you guys already, I don't know if you guys were around when it happened, or some of you may have been, but I think if you want to take a look and say okay, we just want to see, you know, if everything's operating the same if you're using this for training or educational and how you use this space.

It could be as easy as that.

It's kind of like we did with those apartments, right?

Right, yeah.

So why not?

Okay.

Anything else?

No, I promise next month hopefully we don't have as many guests so we can do the TIP district thing or the TIFF presentation.

And then I think I'll make sure with Vanita, I'll get with her because they're at their yearly continuing mid hours today.

Uh you guys wanted uh a something written up about all the new statutes that got passed.

Yeah, the explanation.

So I'll get with her to make sure she gets that together.

Okay.

Anything else?

Thanks for coming today.

Okay.

We're adjourned.

Thank you.

You didn't do a motion or something?