Okay.

Good morning.

It's approximately 10 08, and we're starting our finance committee meeting for the city of Jackson to discuss the audit.

At this time, we're going to have questions about the proposal.

And from the questions, we would move to um here from the auditor and hear from the CFO for the city.

And any other questions from the mayor.

Madam Chair, if you don't mind, can we hear from if you would introduce yourself, state your name and your company, please.

Good morning.

I am Dr.

Douglas Allen with Hamming Company, CPAs and Consultants.

I want to say thank you all for your time this morning.

Honorable Mayor Horn and to the City Council members as well.

I'm here on again on behalf of Emick and Company from Louisville, Kentucky, here to present our proposal in reference to conducting audits for fiscal years 2024 and 2025.

I believe each member of the council had received the proposal.

I won't cover every single page in the proposal, but I will go over some highlights and then I will entertain any questions that you all may have at that time.

Thank you.

Over the years, there was separation between 1980, 1985 or so.

So decided to scale the firm down.

And uh truly I am appreciate being here with you all this morning.

We assembled a team that specifically handles municipalities with our engagement team.

That myself, I as the as a shareholder, I'm very much hands-on.

I will be here uh auditing uh with the field work, working closely with management, and then also with you all with council.

One thing I would like to say is that this is not the first time that we've seen uh a client or potential client uh be a little bit behind uh with the audit.

Okay.

Uh we also like to set a plan uh for that as we've done and so in the proposal to be able to get the city caught up and get back to that certificate of excellence with the GFOA.

Okay.

One of the things that we've looked at is starting the 2024 audit on March the first.

Okay, taking that then through June of this year, and that you will see on page 29.

Page 27.

So the map for 2024 for March of 26, starting the planning of the engagement.

That is again, we would be on site to start preliminary field work and also documentation of internal controls.

That would be through March and April, doing our interim field work.

You'll see May of 26th.

Uh that would be completing our year-end field work.

And then report finalization in June to release the fiscal year 2024 audit by June 30th of 2026.

Upon approval of that audit, we would then move right into the fiscal year 2025.

We understand uh, and I've been on both sides of the house where working with management, their team.

We do our best to try to stay out of the way while you all do your daily jobs, uh, but at the same token, it's about building that relationship in order to make sure things get done and get done timely.

Okay.

One thing we like to do is set weekly meetings, uh, progress meetings.

I don't like to necessarily go backwards.

We like to get, for example, we like to audit cash.

Well, we like to get it done, get it signed off on so we don't have to revisit that later.

All right.

So it's about keeping that open line of communication, which I think is extremely important based on you know, of course, being two years of audits.

Okay.

There are times where we may need to speak to council members.

I always address items with management first.

If there is something that comes up that uh warrants additional discussion, then we will make sure we have those discussions in a timely fashion.

Okay.

We do not like surprises.

We like to be on the same same sheet of music as we go through our through our audit process.

Okay.

Also, uh there are required communications in accordance with statement of audit standards number 99 that requires us to have certain communication with those in charge of governance, that being the mayor and also the council members, and we would have separate discussions with management as it relates to uh if there was any fraud indicative of fraud or anything like that.

Uh just again, those are required type of communications, all right.

Not saying that there is any, uh, but just saying that there are communications that we will have to have as CPAs, okay.

If you turn to page 29, and again, I realize that we're looking at this from March 1st uh through September 15th, that would then allow management to then be preparing for their 27, okay, 2627 audit.

Uh I will say too, uh, in looking at the uh the last audit, I have received a preliminary draft.

Uh so we'll need a final copy if the council decides to move forward.

And there are two component units uh that are believe audited by other auditors.

So that being uh the Jackson Redevelopment Authority and then the municipal airport authority.

So if they have not been audited, they are required component units, they're discreetly presented in the report.

We will still need to add those, but we would then have to add language that they have not been audited if that is the case, okay, uh, because they are required to be in your in your financial statements for the city.

Okay.

One thing uh Ms.

Caldwell and I had an opportunity to speak about.

Um when you think about the certificate of excellence as it relates to reporting for municipalities, uh, that time has kind of come and gone for 24.

Uh so thinking about the report and what's presented in the report, where you can do a non-GFOA report.

That basically takes out a lot of the statistical sections in the report.

Uh it does not change or lessen the amount of audit work that we have to do, it's more of the presentation in the report itself.

Okay, so that's something that we could could discuss uh probably for 24.

I'm not sure if that would need to be for the case for 25, okay, but we can talk more about that in in detail as well.

Okay.

Also uh in the report, uh, there were 22 audit findings, okay, in the 2023 report.

Uh again, as auditors, we are required to go back and see what work has been done to clear those comments.

If they hadn't, they would be considered repeat comments uh that we would then have to address in the 24 and or 25 audit.

Okay.

And so I think you all have may had an opportunity to see those findings, etc.

And again, that's where I'll work close with Ms.

Caldwell to determine what has uh been addressed and corrected, and if not, uh we would then put a plan together, a corrective action plan uh with management to see that we can get those fixed as quickly as possible.

Okay, um as mentioned as as part of timing, uh I think it's critically important that we as the auditors were on site, okay, that we gain an understanding of the operations here for the city, uh, and we have many many years of experience with cities, but every city is a little bit different in that regard, okay.

Um, and just making sure that we understand uh the policy and procedures that are in place, the checks and balances, and uh making sure that we understand the risk that are involved here and help to mitigate those risk uh through our audit procedures.

I don't look at this as a uh as issues, I see it as an opportunity to get the city where they need to be uh and have their audits on time and moving forward.

Uh the city of Jackson plays a very integral part of the state of Mississippi, and I think it's important that you know we do our due diligence and make sure we do our work uh to ensure that the financial statements are fairly presented.

Okay.

Our audits go through a technical review process.

Uh that review process is outlined uh once we go through each section of the audit, uh we go back, we review, review again, and then once we're we have a draft of the report, we have someone independent in the firm to go through the report to make sure that we've covered all our bases uh with with the audit and accounting standards applicable to the city.

Okay.

I think that's critically critically important.

Again, uh prior to any issuance of the report, we would make sure to meet with uh management first, council second, mayor as well, uh, before we come to the table just to make sure that uh we have everything listed in the report as designed.

One thing I did see uh in the report, there were no significant additional items that the state request as part of the report.

And some cases there may be um a schedule that's required by this by the state of Mississippi, but I did not see that in the draft report.

Now, once I look at the final, if there's something in there, we'll definitely take a look uh and make sure that's in there accordingly.

Yes.

Mr.

Douglas, excuse me, councilwoman Clay, we need to pause for about five seconds.

Life size went out, and councilman foot is no longer with us, so I need to just push a button right quick.

Okay, we're we're free to move forward.

Okay.

All right, ready?

Thank you.

As part of the audit, uh, we have what's called the single audit, and those are the federal dollars that we are required to test if they are major programs.

Uh currently there are about six major programs that include and also the COVID dollars.

Uh so we will determine uh major determination on those uh programs and test those accordingly in accordance with the OMB circular guidance.

All right.

And again, throughout this process, as I mentioned, I think the communication is critically important.

Um as we as a firm believe that uh it is important that everyone stays in the loop, that everyone hears the same thing.

Okay.

Um I look again, if approved, we really look forward to working with the city and uh getting your audits you know caught up for you and uh moving things forward.

Okay, and I will entertain any questions that you all may have at this time.

Okay, thank you.

We'll start with questions um from Councilman Grizzell.

All right, good afternoon, uh Dr.

Allen.

Good afternoon.

Um question, you said you will be around, right?

So there will be some local presence.

We have an office space here.

Yes.

Okay, as my uh Ms.

Cowwell mentioned that there is a space for me and the team to be in, yes.

Okay.

Uh one of the experiences with a prior firm, it would just wasn't the best.

And this firm shut down during tax season.

Uh I assume your firm does taxes, right?

We do.

But we have a dedicated staff to do taxes.

We have an audit side and then a tax side.

Okay, so your tax season should not interfere with the audit.

So another question: what's the largest city your firm has provided auditing services for sure?

Uh city of Mount Washington, and then also the city of Greenville, and they run about 40,000 or so.

Uh and I'll tell you now, regardless of the size of the city, it doesn't change the work, and it doesn't change the compliance requirements.

Uh, it's just more work to do.

Okay, yeah.

Okay.

And if I was to call Mayor Simmons today, what would he say?

Mayor Simmons.

You said Greenville?

Oh, Greenwich.

No, not greenville, I'm sorry.

No, this isn't you gotta speak our language.

Yeah, that's right.

You yeah.

No, no, no, no.

Okay, all right, Greenville can take you.

All right, thank that's all I have for now.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Um Councilman.

Let me follow up on that.

If we were to call Greenville, absolutely you did, what would they say?

They will say that uh they are very pleased with our work and uh to hire Amick and Company.

Absolutely.

Uh I have several questions, and I'm not sure if we're gonna, I don't want to bogard it, but um, you know, we've have had uh have you had a chance to look over our budgets and books?

Yes, Ms.

Caldwell sent me the budgets and also the and in addition, we've had a Mr.

Thomas, uh Michael Thomas, who has been doing work for the city of Jackson.

And uh are you going to be able to, I mean, would you suggest uh going in there and looking at his work already?

Again, this is someone that's been looking at our books and looking at our finances, finding deficiencies, et cetera.

Uh so or have you have you done that already?

So no, I have not.

And again, this has just been of the last week, so I haven't really had a chance to dive deep into anything other than just reviewing the 23 report and then also uh the budgets that Ms.

Caldwell had provided to me.

So if work has been done, we can definitely look and see, but we still have to do additional procedures uh to make sure that we're comfortable uh with the work uh that has been done by uh by the gentleman there.

And I understand that, but if there's anything that could help you accelerate your ficiencies now.

Okay, and and also you take you have good use of uh of the money that we've already paid them.

Um the deficiencies year after year I sit here, and I'm hearing the same deficiencies.

How are you gonna address those deficiencies and and and install an infrastructure where we don't go through the repeats because I mean they're a sign of something and something is broken and something needs to be worked on?

How do you plan to address that?

So our goal is is to look at again the previous comments by the uh predecessor auditor.

Okay, there were 22 audit findings.

We actually again we're required to follow up on each of those findings.

Now it's it's really management's responsibility to have controls in place, okay, to make sure that those to mitigate those risk of having deficiencies in the future.

All right.

And what we can do is provide recommendations on hey, I think you may need an extra uh staff member and receipt accounts receivable, so we have proper separation of duties, right?

One of the comments is one of the deficiencies noted was with uh debt covenants and compliance.

That is just a matter of making sure that that particular that cash is there, okay, to uh again make sure that you're meeting those debt covenant requirements.

So those are the kinds of things that we would look at and make recommendations for okay.

Oh no, go ahead.

So um councilwoman, you don't have any questions.

Okay.

Are you finished?

Councilman Hawk.

Yes, ma'am.

Okay, go ahead.

Go ahead.

Thank you.

Um first I just want to begin by clarifying uh point that I believe you were making.

I just want to make sure I'm understanding it.

When you were talking about the certificate of excellence, my understanding of that is there's different levels of audit, and in the past, the city was pursuing a really high degree of audit.

I think to be competitive for grants or for for some other reason.

But um, I believe what you're saying is there's really no need to there, there's little we would gain from doing that high level, and instead, there's other audits we could do that still meet the the requirements of the state.

Is am I understanding that correctly?

So really that's up to management to determine the level in which the report shall be.

Um I just said that for 24, it would be you know kind of pointless to try to go back when it's already two years late.

Yeah, now that's something that we would work with management to be able to move forward to achieve that excellence for 26 and going forward.

Yes.

Great.

That makes sense to me.

Um a question for uh Miss Caldwell um is I see that the this is proposed to be uh half million dollars, um, and that's to include both the 24 audit and the 25 audit.

And I'm just wondering what is our historic rates been, and is this aligned with what we've paid previously for audits?

Yes, um, I believe our historic rates are a little higher than this firm is proposing.

Great, excellent.

Um, and then I just to circle back on the questions of of qualifications.

I I think you said um population about 40,000.

Yes.

Um I had seen it seemed like Mount Washington has the largest population and about 19,000.

It's a little larger than that.

He said a little larger.

Okay.

Um I do think I wonder, I I hear you say, you know, really in audits and audits and audit, no matter if it's you know, 40,000 or or 127,000.

Um, but I do think performing an audit for the city of Jackson brings an extra level of complexity.

Absolutely.

Uh for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is we're working with multiple different agencies that to your point, we've got the convention center, we've got JRA, we've got all these other groups, and so um have you has your firm had experience with that scale of an audit before?

And I will say too, um I worked for a national firm in which I specialized in the public sector service.

Okay, so uh a city of Jackson, uh, though that would be our largest city in the firm, everyone on the team has engaged uh and done work previously with larger municipalities, also even at the federal level as well.

So we can say an audit is just an audit, not necessarily true.

It's again, it's about the risk, okay, that's involved.

And of course, there are opportunities here with the number of deficiencies.

Uh, but our you know our cities now they have component units, right?

Um they have separate uh districts that report to them as well.

So it's not it's about scalability, but again, we're also very efficient.

Uh we use uh a lot of data analysis and techniques for our audit processes, and again, it's about planning the audit and making sure it really comes down to planning and execution of the audit.

And that's where we work with uh again management and also with city council to make sure that those steps are met.

It's you know, it's unfortunate that the city is where they are today, but we're here and engaged, and I said, as an as the owner of the firm, I pull my sleeves up, I roll them up, and I'm here doing audit work just like everyone else.

Okay, we take what we do very seriously.

Uh and and you know, we took an oath as CPAs, and the thing is we want to make sure that the work gets done and it gets done right.

That's why I assembled a team that can be dedicated to be here.

Again, I don't know the predecessor auditory, I'm why it's shut down for six months, but that is not our plan.

I understand the importance of working with cities, I also understand budget constraints.

That's why we were able to come in and really look at it from a standpoint of being efficient as possible while saving the city money.

Okay, thank you.

Miss Scott Will, do you have any comments?

Yes, Gillian Caldwell, CFO.

Um, one thing that you know, I've been having a few conversations with Mr.

Allen over the last um couple of days and working with our um legal team to make sure everything is you know um where we can move forward with this proposal.

One thing that we noticed that you you're working on getting your license completed with the city with the state of Mississippi.

That's correct.

And when would they did they say that?

So actually uh for the each of our CPAs are have a reciprocal license.

So each member doesn't, it's just the firm.

So I had already applied for the license.

They said I could begin work and that it would be approved in their March meeting.

Okay.

So that would be the only thing to make sure we if we agree to them, you know, bring them on and start in March 1st.

I think we should wait until we get that license in March.

Um but again we can also contact the state board and get their their approval as well.

Yeah, yeah.

Can I ask one question?

Drew Martin City Attorney related to that, in addition, as I understand it, in addition to the accountancy board uh certification, which is what you're referring to, there's also a process to register with the auditor's office in order to perform government auditing work in Mississippi.

Uh, is that something y'all have started the process of getting registered with?

Yeah, so the state board actually is the overseer of the account.

So you're saying there's an additional there's a state auditor requirement in order to perform audits.

Sure.

Um and it I don't think it's a complicated process, but I think to perform the audit, you have to be registered.

Okay.

Register with us with the state audit.

Okay, that's not a problem.

We can we'll get that done.

Okay.

Yeah.

Just uh one final question.

Um concerning Mississippi laws versus some of these other municipalities that may be outside.

Do you see any complications there?

Um or any major transition changes that we need to pay attention to with this firm?

Yes, um, not specifically, Jillian Caldwell, CFO, not specifically, but as we move forward, I'm sure there will be things, you know, they come up that he may not be as familiar with just because they um he has not practiced in the state of Mississippi.

That shouldn't be true because accounting standards are gonna be the same, right?

Well, there are some specific state laws that we have to be in compliance with.

Um, one thing we were just mentioning um the the state tort claims board, we have to be in compliance with that as far as um the audit that's performed on the tort claims fund, and so that's something that we had not talked about previously, but I'm sure you'll be willing to and again can can just one final question.

Can you help in that process?

Is there anything?

I mean, this is this manageable with the help with the city of Jackson.

It's manageable, yes.

Okay.

Is it not something that with his education and background that he would be able to read and follow directions and do what he needs to do?

Right.

No, he was asking, was there gonna be any difficulty in changing from one municipality in a state to another municipality in another state?

And I was saying that you can assist with.

Yes, there could be some degree of learning curve because he has not performed a audit in the state for the state of Mississippi.

So it's not to say he can't, just saying there could be some issues that arise because we are having to follow our state policies and but you can help with that, yes.

With that transition, okay.

Thank you.

I have a question.

Have you looked over to state policy?

What we require in Mississippi?

So I looked at the audit report, okay, to see what because that's really what we would be opining on, okay.

And it's not uncommon, even the municipalities that we audit in Kentucky, they'll have their local issues that we have to address as well.

Okay, so we're very familiar.

Uh it's it's just a matter of understanding what laws apply to the city, okay, what the city expects, and again, looking at the federal requirements, and then looking at those requirements in accordance with government auditing standards.

Thank you, madam chair.

Uh Dr.

Allen, welcome to Mississippi.

Thank you, sir.

Um, you're based where in Kentucky.

Uh Louisville, Kentucky.

Good.

And how many um personnel do you expect to dedicate to this particular audit?

We'll have five to six dedicated staff on this engagement.

And considering it, you know, being a two years, and we're looking at a six to seven month turnaround, you know, we've already met internally uh to make sure that we can meet meet those deadlines.

I'm sure you've heard that uh with the uh the previous audit that was done and the audit firm that was uh engaged uh took a good bit of time.

Some of it had to deal with uh they're basically shutting down during tax season.

And it took about uh over a year and a half to get that that audit done.

Uh one of the other contributing factors has been uh uh what was uh the fact that that particular firm while the convention center uh a couple of other entities uh had um uh to submit audits, but we're able to attach their audits.

But it was the opinion of that firm uh that the separate but uh uh owned asset by the city of Jackson but controlled by the federal court and and a private uh entity called Jackson Water that auditor's opinion was that Jackson Waters uh numbers had to be incorporated into the city's audit, which according to them uh kind of for a lot more time uh on getting that audit finished.

Um is it your opinion that that we would have to incorporate Jackson Waters uh uh data into the city's audit, or can we attach Jackson Waters audit?

So one thing I'm not sure without fully being able to look at the documentation, but right now you all have two discreetly presented component units that are required to be in the report.

That's what I'm aware of at this time.

But I again I can definitely take a look at that and see if it is required.

And there was additional complication to it because Jackson Water is on the calendar year.

We're on a federal fiscal year.

Correct.

Jackson Water was on an accrual basis, I'm sorry, uh, with cash basis, and we were on an accrual basis.

Uh and um and just making the numbers line up were were was very difficult, uh, and uh contributed to uh some of the uh longevity of of the process and and if if you you indeed have to incorporate Jackson Waters uh numbers into our report, will that impact the amount of time you think you you can get these audits completed?

I wouldn't think so.

Uh I will ask who actually does the the books for Jackson Water.

I think Horn uh the Horn group uh is is who uh was involved with this, and there may have been another group as well.

So they should be familiar with again being able to go from the cash basis to accrual basis uh to provide the numbers that we need to incorporate in the report because technically we're not auditing the water authority, right?

Um it would just again be additional disclosures in the financial statements for the city.

Well, uh it became a very pricklish issue with this other firm.

Understand.

Uh, but I would uh expect that if we uh wind up engaging you, uh you would let us know and notify us uh as quickly as possible if you see uh some element occur that would um uh would necessitate taking more time.

I think too, that would be a good discussion for me to have with the city attorney uh again to determine just what bodies should or should not fall under the city's umbrella.

I think that would be critically important.

As I said, we're aware of the two component units, but if there is a third or possibly fourth, then I think four, okay, then we can uh we'll see what how that determination is made then to move that forward.

Okay, there should be some form of an ordinance or something that represents what truly falls under the city's umbrella.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Any other questions?

When we eventually vote on this, will we vote on it as one package for 24 and 25?

The proposal is for 24 and 25.

And I'm gonna say this.

Um this has nothing either way wherever we go.

We contacted a lot of auditors, okay.

Right now, the state of Mississippi has sent out a letter requiring everybody to get their audits in uh up to date, okay.

So most audit firms in the state are booked to next year in April or further out because of the audit.

Okay.

Second thing, um, a lot of a lot of audit firms do not do municipalities.

Okay.

Um third thing, we heard of an audit firm when we went to a meeting with Hines County, and I talked to that firm in depth many times, and they just came back and said before they could even look at us, we'll be a year to a year and a half.

So if we do that, we're following further and further behind.

The one thing that is good about this firm is the expertise in terms of auditing and the educational background.

I don't think with that level of um degrees that he would have a problem making anything work.

Okay, and I think even though the size is smaller, we need to look at numbers and numbers are the same, no matter how big or how small the city is.

So the manpower is the question, and he's been talking to uh Ms.

Caldwell, and in terms of accounting and everything, we will have to be on the same page no matter who the auditor is.

And I forgot Mr.

Putt.

Mr.

Putt, I'm a I'm gonna stop right here.

Mr.

Pitt, do you have any questions?

Uh I got a question.

I apologize.

I've had an intermittent connection here.

I missed hear all of the discussion.

But my question is if the uh gentleman that's um at the podium, he can tell us or tell me anyway, some of the other municipal cities that he uh that their firm has is the merger for.

Yes.

So again, uh currently within the last three years, we have uh the city of Greenville, City of Rolling Fields, City of Sorry, City of Rolling Fields, City of Greenville, uh City of the State.

Yeah, all in Kentucky, Mount Washington.

So those again, our our clients that we have all in the in the state of Kentucky.

We have not audited in uh the state of Mississippi.

Tell me what's the biggest of those cities population-wise.

Uh the city of Mount Washington is the largest, about 40,000.

Okay.

That's the only question I've got at this point in time.

Thank you.

One other point, population-wise, there are a lot of cities with a lot less population than Jackson, 10,000 that's got way more money than Jackson.

So we need to look at numbers in terms of revenue and dollars and not population.

If I may say um that may be a concern.

I've been doing this for 26 years.

The the team that we've assembled, uh, we have a lot of experience in this, okay.

And uh I say this from an educational standpoint.

Um we take this very seriously, okay.

Uh I am one of 30 people in the country that hold the designations that I hold.

Okay.

I don't say that from a Bragg or both standpoint, but I say that because we put the time in.

All right.

In order to put the time in and get it right, that's what it takes.

Okay.

So I say again, when I say we went through the financial statements, we comb through it.

We sat down as a team and started to already formulate a plan.

Okay.

The plan is to get the city back in good grace and get these audits done.

Okay.

Uh again, we have the knowledge, we have the expertise, and not only that, but you will have presence here to get the work done.

We're not going to take a six-month break for tax season, all right.

And it's uh or deer season or anything else for that matter.

All right.

But but at the end of the day, it's about the business, it's about maintaining our independence.

And again, it's about serving the city of Jackson.

Thank you.

No questions, one statement.

Any engagement of this individual, this firm would need to be contingent upon him first meeting the requirements of state law.

If you engage him, I appreciate he's anxious to come get on board, but if you engage him before he meets the requirement of state statute, uh my legal opinion is that that would be void at the outset, and you would be liable for any expenditures.

So just make sure if you choose to engage him, you make it contingent upon meeting the requirements.

Again, as Mr.

Martin said, they sound largely formalistic, uh, but it's one of those things if the I's aren't diving and T's are crossed.

Agreed.

Will that require an amendment to what's in front of us?

I don't know what motion is on the floor.

But you are in completely discussion right now.

Okay.

You're you're fine.

Just when you make the motion, I think you just need to include some language that is contingent upon meeting the state requirements.

That's fine.

Yep.

Agreed.

Thank you.

Um I'll just uh reiterate a few things that I really really like about this package uh to Cons Clay's perspective to her notes.

Um the education is top tier, and it seems like you're very well trained for this job.

I also love the timeline.

I mean, when we took office, we were three years, two to three years behind on our audits.

This will get us a plan to get us caught up on that, which I really like.

Some other things I like.

I like that your cost is in line, if not lower than what we've previously paid.

Uh, and there's a fixed rate, which means you're not gonna be incentivized to track this on adding hourly rates forever.

So I really really like those things um and and client to support this.

At the same time, you know, we need we would have to make sure that we're doing our due diligence to make sure that we are selecting someone who's who's really right for this job, and beyond the the minimum licensure requirements that have been discussed.

Um, you know, I I think your education seems to indicate that you almost certainly will do an excellent, amazing job with this.

But but in defense of other, I mean, it is a bit of a risk.

This is your first client of this size.

We'd be your first client in the state of Mississippi as a firm.

And so I'm wondering if there you may be amenable to uh inserting something into the contract that allows for after the 2024 audit.

Um, if there's if if we see actually, you know, we weren't satisfied or something.

I just I fear getting locked into a 24-25 audit with somebody who is exceedingly well educated and and has done many, many audits, but hasn't done one in the state of Mississippi and hasn't done one for um uh city of our size.

If I may, I think you all have a bit of your little gunshot based on your previous auditors, okay.

I'm not that auditor.

PTSD is more proud.

Yeah, yeah.

So, you know, everyone, yeah, everyone needs to do their due diligence.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Uh, but again, we're not that firm.

Okay.

And as I mentioned, size, it's uh it doesn't change the scope of work that we do.

Okay.

Uh that that's you know, yeah, I've been in a place where I was auditing the state government of Kentucky.

And we're talking about billions of billions of dollars, right?

So size is not the issue.

I I think it's more that you all get comfortable.

And I will tell you, um, that's why I said communication is key.

Uh it won't the our firm won't be the hold up.

Okay.

We'll work closely with management.

That's why we want to meet weekly and get things done on time.

Uh so I think you know, we'll definitely make sure we we are in line with the the state's uh you know accommodation or recommendations, etc.

to make sure that we are fully sound to do to do the work.

Um I wasn't aware of the state auditors request, that's fine.

We we'll take care of that today.

Okay, we'll get on that today.

Uh, as I mentioned too, we've already um gotten approval from the state board of accountancy.

So we're we are ready and equipped uh to do the work, and I think if you uh allow us the opportunity, you will you will see that Mr.

Grisel.

All right, let's um to be fair, colleagues.

There are only so many audit firms in this state, and I've never met this gentleman before.

I won't be clear about that, because there are people even texting me debating the size of the city that you mentioned, so we might need to get that number together, but the municipalities, other municipalities in this state, they're also behind, and they're sharing these same firms, which we know that again, there are a few.

We don't have a lot of options, so let's not get caught up on 10,000, 20,000, because again, the work does not change.

I've done auditing before, I hated it.

And anybody that's willing to get in there and do it, hey, my hat goes off to you.

But um let's just kind of stay focused on the work and not get caught up in the rabbit hole of city size.

We also received uh a proposal from another firm, and they got I think 12 of the cities in this state, and half of those cities are still behind.

So we just need to be fair about whatever this is, and I'm I'm completely in favor of the contingency, and I'm completely in favor of either party having a way out with respect to the contract if either side is not pleased, because again, he has work with the administration.

They may not be working on his timeline.

He may say, Hey, you're not gonna make me look bad, I'm gonna get out of here.

So he also should have that option to bail if necessary.

Um, because again, that was one of the complaints from the last auditor.

He said he wasn't getting what he needed from the administration.

So you know we're not we're at a crossworlds, we're not in a place to where we can act like we have all these options and entertain a lot of options.

So I I completely understand the concerns, and you know he has a CPA license.

I don't think he's willing to risk that.

And you know, we talked to another firm and some other stuff came out about their firm.

But I uh, you know, as for me, I'm willing to give it a shot as long as he meets the contingencies and that either side has a way out.

Yeah, just a comment.

Uh, first of all, I like your firm.

Thank you.

Because uh, you know, when I picture an auditor, they're boring as uh biscuit and potatoes.

I told them you know, you know, and so I'm thinking, yeah, just probably the right guy, okay.

Uh, but we've had some of the best firms, yeah, and we still down all these discrepancies.

Right.

So um perhaps we need to go with someone we can grow with, someone that can understand our deficiencies and help build a structure that we need so we don't have the repeats.

So uh with that, I'd say thank you.

Best wishes to you.

Appreciate it.

Thank you.

Mr.

Parkinson.

Nothing further.

Thank you.

Do you have Mississippi legal counsel?

Uh no.

Uh my counsel's in Kentucky.

I would suggest that you consider retaining Mississippi legal counsel who is familiar with local government law.

And the reason I say that, uh, I believe you're smart enough to understand most of this, but it would not surprise me if a nuance or two arose when you audited the city of Jackson.

Uh Mr.

Martin, his city attorney is going to be limited ethically by what he can opine for you or share for you.

So you may consider doing that.

Um, I'm not trying to get you to spend a bunch of money in Mississippi, but just as a general statement, you may consider that.

Thank you.

Well, uh again, as an auditor, you know, when we hear those type of you know, comments, is there an issue going into this that we should be made aware of?

Right.

So we have representation, that's not an issue.

Our you know, our job is to come in here, get the audits done, right?

Provide our recommendations, and help you get back on track, right?

But we do ask again, and and I have a license just like I'm sure several of you all as well, that we don't put on the line, okay.

Um so if there is something, and maybe you know, talk to management or we don't have a separate conversation with council members, et cetera, that we need to be made aware of, then that would be great going into it.

So we can plan accordingly.

As I said, as I mentioned earlier, and we don't like surprises.

I don't want to surprise my clients.

That's why we have a fixed fee.

I don't like nickel and diamond to death.

I think that's inefficient, right?

But as long as we have again, we have knowledge of what's going on, all right, that we can do our job and do it, do it right, then I think we'll you know we'll be in good shape.

Perhaps I didn't explain that well.

The only knowledge this administration has is what is contained in the most recent audit that you have been provided.

Sure.

But you were asking, for example, about component units, and you made a gesture toward the city attorney, and you wanted some advice from him as to what are component units in Mississippi.

And so uh while I think he can tell you what the city has traditionally had as component units, I also know that he can't just give you advice as a contract auditor.

And so there may be nuances of Mississippi law as the CFO alluded to earlier that you may need some clarification on to the extent that the city attorney can do so.

I'm sure he's gonna do so because we want to work with the auditor.

Sure.

But if I may add things may happen, sure.

And I think we've all acknowledged that Mississippi is not Kentucky.

That's right.

And so I'm just giving you a little bit of what I would consider wisdom from somebody who's practiced in local government a little bit longer than you.

Not that you can't do it, and not that there's any knowing surprises that are coming your way, but it's just to make sure that we meet the timeline that you're establishing for the city.

One thing I would like to add when you're thinking about again the financial statements are that of the city.

Okay.

So the city should know what the component units are, right?

We know what's in the 23 report, but as the mayor alluded to and others, if there are other areas that need to be incorporated, those are the kind of things that we need to have a discussion about.

As far as the mayor, I was just saying from a legal standpoint that he there may be something out there that he knows that would be a part of since Jackson Water, etc.

But again, you know, our job is to audit the financial statements that are provided by management.

And we'll add any recommendations as we see uh necessary as we go through the process.

Um you and I discussed those four units already.

Um convention center, where where do they stand with their audit?

The convention center has provided their 2023 audit, and they are engaging with an auditor to complete their 24 audit, which they think may take six weeks.

Okay, 2023.

We got a report in our hand as 2023.

We didn't have their audit at the time we got this report, right?

Right.

Okay.

Next one.

Airport, where are they?

The airport has provided their audit for FY24.

Uh Jackson Redevelopment Authority.

Jackson Redevelopment Authority has provided their audit for FY24.

Jackson water.

Um not sure on Jackson Water.

We have to check the numbers that were used for Jackson Water.

The other auditor did not have to go back and redo an audit.

There's a way in accounting that you can use those numbers from month to month and interpret, right?

Correct.

Okay.

Thank you.

I'm not saying it don't get legal counsel.

I'm just saying use your accounting knowledge.

Absolutely.

Any more questions.

Okay.

Item two.

Order of the Jackson City Council authorizing the city council president to execute the audit engagement theater with Amic and Company as set forth in the Mississippi Code annotated section 21-8-13 to for said firm to provide auditing services for the city of Jackson State Tort Claims Fund for the years ended September 30, 2024 and September 30th, 2025.

So moved.

Second.

All in favor.

All opposed.

Clerk of Council, Shanikia Jordan.

So with item number two, the item, um, the body of the item that's provided to you in your packet.

We would need to replace the this item.

The headers are different.

Yes, that's correct.

So we need so move.

Second.

It's been moved it properly to a minute.

Properly such that we substitute the item presented in place of the item in the packet.

All in favor, all opposed.

Councilman Foot.

How do you vote?

I vote aye.

It's been properly moved and second that we substitute the information provided instead of the information in the packet.

All in favor.

Okay.

Item number three.

All right.

We got you.

Thank you, Secretary.

Order of the Jackson City Council authorizing the city council president to execute the audit engagement letter with Amick and Company as set forth in the Mississippi Code annotated section 21-8132 for said firm to provide auditing services for the years ended September 30th, 2024 and September 30th, 2025.

So moved.

Second.

I have an amendment.

Okay.

That would happen to that.

Go ahead.

Okay.

Substitute the document provided by legal.

Uh anything else?

All right, that's it.

Second.

All in favor of the amendment.

Ms.

Foote.

I'm not sure.

Can you explain the amendment again?

Is this adding the contingency regarding uh approval by the state officers?

No, the the amendment is a substitute the document provided by legal.

In the essence is which includes the state so I so we're now voting on the the councilman the uh Drew Martin City Attorney the this the primary change to the substitute does it include the stuff that's sure the the primary change to the substituted document is to include the Mississippi uh state tort claims fund as part of the audit.

Uh it does not have the contingency language that you're asking about there, uh, but we can work on that with the actual engagement and contract before it's executed.

Oh, so the the we can vote this in with the making sure that he's um the audit firm is is straight with the set with the state of Mississippi.

Yeah, that that will come at a later time but this motion just substitutes the document provided by legal, which includes a state the state tort claims fund claims fund.

And I will add this is a vote to rem take it out of committee, it's not a vote on uh right.

We just try we gotta get it out of committee.

Okay.

So how do you vote, sir?

Oh, okay.

Okay.

Well, I I've I vote aye.

I vote aye.

Um we didn't.

What do you need?

Oh that okay.

Yeah, all right.

If I may, I apologize.

We just did a substitution too.

We gotta now vote uh on the item itself.

We did both.

We just voted we just voted.

Okay, so vote as amended, right?

All right, all right, got it.

We're good.

So now we begin adjourn.

We are adjourned.

All right.