Room that we used to have at the uh old city hall.

I was there.

Yeah, I like the old chamber.

I did too.

We can talk about this on record.

I don't know.

I like to do City Hall better, but the old chamber was nothing like it.

Call this meeting order 12 noon.

Um those that are here, just quick announcement, please sign in if you're here.

And and before we start introductions, council member, I remember the old chamber.

I was there the night.

Um you you may or may not remember this.

Remember the night that Tilly sent for Denise and Deedra.

You know, I have a funny story about it.

Yes, I I do.

I was there that night.

Yeah as a kid.

I was a kid, but I was there, and like you, I think was it 15th floor?

I was the floor leader.

Okay, and that is the only council meeting I ever missed because I had to go to a state farm function because I was a new state firm agent.

Okay, and I tried to get out of the state farm function, and my manager told me this is a state farm function you will not miss.

And um, and so I said, Yes, sir, you are my bread and butter, sir.

I will be at it.

This is my this is the one I missed is when the drama, yeah.

Yeah, it was still we're we're talking for those that don't know back in the 80s.

That was back in uh that was the 80s.

That was 88.

Yeah.

Because Tommy was mayor then.

Yep.

Yeah.

So I was I have this wonderful picture in my office with me and him on the 14th.

Was council president that year then Tilly was council president the next year.

The next year, yeah.

Yeah.

Good times, good times.

All right, so we we started at 12.

Make sure we make note of that.

Uh we start with introductions.

Matt Carlucci group for at large.

And Rockman Johnson, this I am uh representative of District 14, the West Side.

Uh this meeting is, and I'm sure we'll meander around.

It's about leadership.

And and one of the um the great things is I've known, I gotta say this, I've known you, Matt, for more than 30 years since I was a a child.

And I never uh thought that I would get the opportunity to serve with you having known you and have just sometimes picked up the phone and called you for counsel over the years.

So well, um this is a really unique experience because well, it's been fun for me, Rogman.

I I'm I'm so proud of how well you've done, and you you have far surpassed uh me in so many ways, and and I I wish I had your oratories.

I wish I had a third uh a day of your oratory.

Uh it's you you're just a remarkable man, and um, so I was happy to meet with you today.

I I and I I just I'm thankful, I'm thankful.

And this is the here's the thing that I think most um in many ways I wish we did not have to have, not that sunshine is a bad thing, but sometimes it's good to just have conversation, right?

Especially with people in a collegial body that you're working with without having to go through the notices and what have you.

But I'm I'm so appreciative of this moment.

Let me ask you uh, first of all, is there anything what are you looking for?

You've been one of the longest serving members.

I think it's you, Eric Smith, Warren, Denise.

You're in that class of those great um states people that have served forever on this council, and of course you saw your dad do it.

What are the qualities?

And at the time, I'm gonna take it back.

I call it pro Tim.

I remember when it was president and pro Tim, those were the days, right?

President Pro Tim.

Yeah, yeah, and the Pro Tim, you know, not always became president, but usually usually became president.

Um, what is uh what what are you the characteristics that you're looking for when you you know you've seen it, you've been it.

What makes a good number two?

Well, uh a good um vice president, of course, is somebody who is there to back up the council president.

Um and not always uh voting the same way a council president does.

You're not subservient to a council president because you have to have your own independent thinking, but but you but you you do want to be um loyal to that council president.

Uh and um and and you want to be available uh in the event that you're called upon to be council president because of his absence or illness or whatever that might come up.

Uh the the biggest thing that that I tried to do when I was vice president that really paid off for me um when Alberta was council president, I was vice president.

I made it a point to do two things.

Um I made it a point to take notes from her on how she handled um sometimes situations where there might be some contentiousness between two council members.

And uh and there will always be contentiousness between council members because you got 19 uh strong willed people who have their own ideas.

But um but I but there will always be some contentiousness.

So I would take notes on how she handled those kind of things.

I had a little red book, I still got it, a little red leather-bound um book, um, and uh and I would take notes, and so I tried to observe um, and I allowed her to kind of mentor me from afar and from up close.

And back then we had agenda meetings, and uh those of you who um might find this interesting, but before council meetings, we would gather in the the conference room, and then back in those days, the media was free to just walk back into the council chamber.

I mean back into the council offices.

So they would just walk right into the conference room, and the council president would have an agenda meeting, and all the council members that would come and we go through the agenda, and the council president would say what was going to be deferred, what was going to be taken up, where there might be a floor amendment, so that everybody on the council would know what to expect as the meeting went on.

Um and it worked very well, but but there's sometimes you might have a conflict during that process.

So I would watch how she would handle that.

So I think that's one thing a council vice president should really do is just watch how the council president handles those things, and sometimes how the council president may not handle those things so well, and how you might do those, do something different.

Okay.

So it's a learning experience, one way or the other.

Uh I might have done it this way.

You know what?

He handled that really good.

I think I might do it that way, or she handled it handled like her the way she did.

So I learned a lot from Alberta.

She was really good.

Uh the other thing is I would spend that year um trying to take notes on, I would take notes on what I began to understand was important to all of my different colleagues, and I would write it down.

Um then I also took notes on if I became council president, uh what I wanted to do with that year.

Because in all likelihood, if you get to be council president, with few exceptions, you're only going to get that chance once.

And when I came back as you know on the for my fourth term, I I wasn't going to run for council president.

I didn't want to do that.

I did I want everybody else to have a chance.

I had my chance and I made the most of it, and it was a it was a magical year, a wonderful year.

But it was wonderful because I spent my vice presidency, you know, understanding what my colleagues wanted, but then also what was my agenda.

And my agenda was to concentrate on the um on the historic buildings of downtown and what I could do to make it easier for uh the city to uh preserve the that beautiful stock of old historic buildings that we had.

Uh the second thing was I was very um much uh concerned about our active parks.

We didn't have we had some active parks, but we didn't have enough, but but the active parks we had were in disrepair.

So I wanted to get a big slug of money to do something with active parks, and and so that was the other, and then and then the other had to do with uh improving our relationship with the uh school system because we had a lot of F schools back then, and so I put together my agenda, and then when I became council president, I was easily able as I campaigned, you know, and then in uh in running for council president uh by sharing with my colleagues that I knew the things that they wanted to do, and then I then shared the things that I wanted to do, and I felt that we could all work together and accomplish a a lot for for all of us for the for the good of the whole.

And so I put together my agenda, and then when I became council president, I was easily able, as I campaigned, you know, and in uh in running for council president uh by sharing with my colleagues that I knew the things that they wanted to do, and then I then shared the things that I wanted to do, and I felt that we could all work together and accomplish uh a lot for all of us for the for the good of the whole.

I gotta say this, and and this is I I'm probably fanning out a little bit.

Uh as you know, I'm a journalist by trade, and I feel more than anything like we get a glimpse into we've talked over the years, but there are pieces that I didn't even know, especially your psyche.

Um, I'm always big on ethos logos pathos, right?

What is the the ethics logics and logic and pathology behind the things that are being done?

So as a journalist, I mean this is like really platinum getting the insight of what you did then and how we hopefully are standing on your shoulders now.

And in some ways, um, I feel some of the things are not helpful to the legacy of all of the people who served back then, as you have alluded to earlier.

But I will say, just hearing this from you, um, I just feel like we're getting to look behind the curtain.

And and this is amazing.

And it's so funny you you talked about competitiveness.

Um you weren't there, but I know a couple years ago, do you remember the ETM games?

England Times and Miller did they do this game thing.

We did it at the um, oh god, it was at uh uh it not but before that went in toontown, it was somewhere else.

It was at the stadium, the flex field.

That's where it was at the flex field.

And that was the year we won.

The council allegedly won, and we played hard.

I think Andrew was your first year, and remember you did the race, the foot race with the guy, and we allegedly won, but they took it back.

And so the people, and it was some points off or whatever.

We acquiesced, but it was so funny that people said, Well, I didn't realize you guys were so competitive on the city council.

I'm like, wait a minute, you get 19 people who had to face each other to be in this but face a bunch of people.

Well, they they looked at Carlucci and said, Look, he's 68.

Don't even invite him.

That's why I wasn't there.

No, but it was boiling.

I mean, all of you know, Joe, Joe played.

We had a great time, and we were playing like tug of war and all the games you were there for you.

Yeah, yeah, we had a good time.

So, but it was just funny.

They said they couldn't believe we were so competitive.

I'm like, you couldn't believe that we had to run to get in this spot where it weren't weren't competitive.

I will say though that I hit the first grand slam in the uh in the in the in the new uh ballpark.

And then you've all okay.

I did, I did uh when the council and the administration were playing the news media.

I don't when was that?

Uh well that was that was right after the uh ballpark with the uh uh better jacksville got so it was still Peter Bragan.

Yeah, the we we played a uh uh softball game uh there to uh break uh then and it was like the first game and like 99 2000.

I slammed I slammed a uh a grand slam yes I did.

I love it.

Uh see you the things you find out in notice meetings.

Yep.

Um so I'll tell you, and something you said to me about finding out your uh the colleagues' priorities has has sat so well with me.

Um I'm not sure if you knew this, but each of the letters or emails that I sent out to all 18 of my colleagues were each individually done.

Letters that I noticed that a quote from some luminary that spoke to the Largess of what you're doing on council, each of each of you, and the letter was intentional about what I've seen from you over the past three years, at least for me, and what I believe your districts were bringing about.

And I thought that was the intentionality to me.

Um, as I said earlier, whether I win or lose, whether I win, become president or not.

I it's not a loss.

Um, so whether I become president vice president or not, just being able to compete in this space, um, I couldn't not be more incredible.

Just I'm honored.

Oh, it's an honor.

But that's why I'm intentional about you know having a campaign logo, having a theme, being cohesive, and what you just said to me underscores that by saying, look at your colleagues properly.

Well, well, let me share something with you.

I when I first saw the your sign on the the or your thing on the door, I said, oh man, he's uh he's he's uh this is crazy.

And uh and but you know, when I went to the meeting in here and I saw what you were doing, uh this this is this is what sunk in is finally we got some excitement about some competition for this vice presidency because uh for too many years I've seen what has looked like a um what has looked like to me, and I and I and I think I have good reason to believe this a succession plan.

And there was no real competition.

Every everybody was knew who the next person was gonna be, and everybody just went to the motion.

is finally we got some excitement about some competition for this vice presidency because for for too many years I've seen what has looked like a um what has looked like to me and I and I and I think I have good reason to believe this a succession plan and there was no real competition every everybody was you knew who the next person was going to be and everybody just went to the motion so people would show up for the meeting they collect their pledges before they would even say what they were going to do and I and I I um and it and my friend Mark over here was telling me you know boy you look so much better today than you did yesterday that meeting you don't let it get to you and uh and I I have to be honest with you I uh stuff does get to me sometimes because our family uh and myself have put a lot of time into uh trying to to keep this city council institution um you know uh strong and steady and competitive and and to be the best it can be and um and uh and and when I when I see sometimes it going in a direction that I don't think is fair um you know I I I uh that it doesn't necessarily pull out the best of me I just be honest with you it it uh it aggravates me and uh and so I I I got a you know I have to try to tamp on the brakes on that but but uh but it's kind of uh I like to say it's a righteous indignation uh maybe some people don't think it is but but I I I say all that to say this I saw the excitement and that's how we should be we should be excited that we have a chance to run for vice president and I thought I I said this is kind of refreshing you know because you are seeing it as the opportunity that it is and it is there is no better place to make a difference in your hometown than having a seat that is owned by the public on the Jacksonville City Council and then to go and then to be vice president and eventually president no better place to leave your thumbprints for the betterment of this community than being on city council and so there should be an excitement about that.

So I saw the excitement I said God bless him good for you so I I thought it was I thought it was I I thought what you did was was an incredibly uh refreshing and a good idea and I appreciate that I tried to you know to me um my grandmother would I I quote her a lot um but just that age old sage wisdom right she was born and raised in Stark Florida but came over here and graduated they didn't have they only had eighth grade start so she caught the pulpwood truck over to Edward Waters and became that's where she graduated high school and she later went on to be a principal to be a little girl off a farm and start and become an educator of that caliber um my grandmother would always say do a common thing in an uncommon way.

Wow well and it was great wisdom that I I into it that is terrific.

And speaking of the generations past I gotta ask you this um and you of anybody know the senator and his um his psyche his way of being if the senator were here now Senator Carlucci um what would he say we need on this council to move things forward um I think he would say we need transparent transparency I think he would be um I I really don't want to say what all he was thinking he's not he's not here yeah yeah yeah um but I I can tell you that a a lot of what you see reflected in me is probably what you would have heard from my dad uh probably with a little more profanity and um but um but he had a 10 commandments for a council member and he was he was very um he was very much a supporter of the sunshine law uh he had low tolerance for um uh when tough bills came up uh he didn't suddenly have a bad case of diarrhea and had to go to the restroom he was sick it out and vote and and and and if it was a it it if voting for something unpopular meant a uh short-term political loss he voted the way he thought was best and then he would uh honestly explain it to the public and and he was and he held very high popularity ratings his whole uh time he was in public office and um and he said what he thought and he was comfortable in the skin and uh I I think he'd be I I think I I don't think he'd be pleased with uh with some of the some of the things that are happening uh in this council the last uh uh three terms understood understood I do before I I want to jump to something non leadership related but before I do do you have any questions leadership related for me that I can answer uh no but I'd like for you to share what what your uh let's see what time I got a meeting at oh okay we got some time so uh tell me what um in the composition of of uh the makeup of committees you know how you would

Understood.

I do before I I want to jump to something non-leadership related, but before I do, do you have any questions leadership related for me that I can answer?

Uh no, but I'd like for you to share what what your uh let's see what time I got a meeting at oh okay, we got some time.

So uh tell me what um in the composition of uh the makeup of committees, you know, how you would how how you would put your committees together and and um and what would your relationship be like with um uh the mayor's office?

Um what um how would you um make room for those on this council who uh perhaps looked at things differently than you did.

You know, talk to me about those kind of things, and where would they fit into your total plan?

You know, how would you still make room for them?

There's a one and I appreciate that.

There's a wonderful book that uh when I was in grad school that I read, and it's something that I keep uh called Lincoln on Leadership.

And when President Lincoln was elected, as I'm sure most of us know who study American history and leadership, one of Lincoln's big ideals was to create the team of rivals.

And he had that team of rivals with him, and it kind of echoes that whole keep your friends close, but your enemies even closer.

But I don't look at them as enemies, I look at them as collaborators in this wonderful democratic experiment.

So to answer your question about committees, I the first thing I think I want to go backwards to you know, to forward you're saying those people that may not agree, we may not have the same um thought as to how we should get there.

How would I deal with them?

And it's it's I I spoke to some kids um over in uh spring uh Spring Park Elementary.

Was it Spring Park Elementary, Andrew?

I think we went to over off of uh on the south side, and right down the street from your office from your insurance office.

That was uh that that could have been Hendrix Avenue Elementary.

It could be the other way, going towards Phillips Highway.

Or uh going towards Phillips.

I think it's Spring Park, almost positive.

Okay.

But I was over there talking to some kids.

My wife went to elementary school.

At Spring Park, really.

Wow.

Wow.

Well, I was over there talking.

This has been like maybe a year or so ago, and this was during an election time, and the kids wanted somebody that wasn't elected to come in, and they were asking me questions like, well, well, what if you don't like this person?

So they became um Democrats and Republicans and had a group of independents.

It was a wonderful civic experiment.

And it just came to me while I was talking.

I said, if I want to walk to that door, right?

All of us can walk to the door.

You may choose to go around this way, another person may choose to go around the other side, I may choose to take the straight path, and there may be rationale for each of those ways to get to the door.

But at the end of the day, the goal is to get through the door.

That's a good example.

And and to me, that's what I think this is about.

And I want to understand because maybe your reason for going around to get to the door, there's something there that I don't see in my path.

But if I understand it, I may not want to go that way, but I can certainly respect it.

So for me, that connection um as to those people that may not agree on how to get to the door is communication, right?

Talking, but also most importantly, listening, which is what you said earlier, hearing your colleagues' voices.

And so I'm not one to um, you know, Betty Holzendorf, who, as you know, was was a great mentor of mine, and uh, I shared this with council former council president White uh when we met, that she used to tell me there are no permanent friends or permanent enemies, only permanent causes, permanent issues.

And she really believed that.

And here's a woman who, for all intents and purposes at the time, should not have been effective as she was in the legislature or as the government affairs director in the Godball administration.

She should not have been effective in that.

But there was a confidence in her because she was coming on the side of I know I understand, I will listen, but I will also have this this data, this information in my back pocket.

A lot of people don't realize Betty was uh her master's degree was in like intercellular microbiology, right?

She was a brilliant woman.

I never knew that.

She walked away from her PhD because she was like, I don't, I don't like these people.

Like she literally walked away from getting her doctorate because she just didn't want to.

She's a smart cookie, and then some.

But one of the things that she said is like if you come in, she would always tell you, and that's the integrity piece for me.

If she's with you, and I've been there with her in Tallahassee when lobbyists came, she would tell you, I'm with you on this, and here's why.

Now, or I'm not with you, and here's why.

And would give you the opportunity to say, if you bring me data, information that I can look at, I will certainly take it into account.

And she I've seen her change her position based on information she got.

I've I've been with this.

She was a pragmatist.

She she stayed up all night.

She it rings in my head.

Sometimes I'm here one, two o'clock in the morning, sometimes I'm at home researching bills because I can hear her in my head saying, if you don't understand it, you better not vote on it.

Right?

So I have to know my bills because that's just in my DNA.

That's how I was raised.

So that answers those, you know, that question.

Um when it comes to the mayor's office, I'll tell you, I I've known the mayor personally as a as an individual for more than 30 years.

Um I remember my first appearance, maybe on uh TLV, Sally Fox did an interview, and I was one of the 12 kids who care.

Um this is back in the 1980s, and uh I met the mayor at the time, uh, anchor, and it interestingly enough, I have that video which uh I said to Sally Fox, I want your job one day as an anchor.

Who knew I would become a news anchor?

There you go.

But it was that forecasting, you know, I've known her personally, so I want to just say that, like as and I respect her, and even in the industry.

Um Joyce Morgan and Ken Amarrow and and Rob Sweeting and Donna and Sally and all those people, when I picked up the phone and I was in my career and I had some issues, I called them and they answered and they helped me.

My first day on Nickelodeon, um, Joyce was still working at Channel Four, and I I was national TV, and my first day was horrible.

It was probably because I was I was I was Nickelodeon and my people from New York were in one ear, people from the not the the uh right you know at the the studio where it's in my other ear, and I'm trying to figure my way out.

And I called Joyce, and Joyce was saying, hey, just talk.

Yeah, that's your best friend.

So having those relationships are good, but I tell you that, even though I appreciate the relationship with the mayor's office, I'm not gonna rubber stamp everything they say.

Yeah, right?

Ms.

Norris is sitting here now, she can tell you we we have conversations.

I agree with a lot of what they say.

I may not agree with how to get there, but I think the mayor's office can my relationship with them won't change because I believe the one thing that I can do is, like I said, with my colleagues, have communication, talk to them.

I I will tell you if you have a good relationship, that means you always have to agree, but if you have a good relationship, an authentic good relationship with the mayor, you will have a much better experience as council president than otherwise.

Uh and and that was my experience, and that's the experience I've seen of any council president.

If you if you had a good um relationship, it's good.

You you're gonna be golden.

And the last one about committees, and by the way, I want to recognize uh councilmember Mike Gay and Councilmember uh Tyrona Clark Murray.

If you wish, please feel free to come to the day, as please, if if you wish.

Okay, we'll be out in just a sec.

I my last question for you is about, and thank you for that.

So committee assignments, I'm not one that's gonna say only Democrats, only Republicans or only this, you know, purple striped people with green spots conserve as committee chairs.

Whoever's most effective and has these skills, they should be committee chairs.

And and I just believe that, and I think we will find that out, you know, if I'm indeed put in that leadership position.

Last but not least, very quickly, I did not get a chance to attend your naming meeting.

Is there anything you can share?

Just quick points about that very quickly.

Um, uh, there's a naming opportunity that I want to um uh speak with uh the district council person about for Warren Jones, and uh and I I kind of want to talk to her about it first before I talk to anybody else about it, and then another one from Mark Middlebrooks that I want to talk to the district council person about before I talk to anybody else about it.

If you respect that, and then we'll get and then and then um and then Corey will get you the minutes.

I look forward to it.

If you want to meet with me afterwards on that, we can I just want to I didn't attend.

So I want to thank you for one thing.

I want to thank you for asking for my opinions because I don't get that opportunity that much.

And um, and I um uh and I really value that and I appreciate it.

Thank you.

I wish you all the luck in the world.

Thank you, Councilmember.

I appreciate you.

Thank you.

There is a public comment.

Um I am running over on time.

I do want to recognize uh that Mr.

Oliver Cornell Oliver is here.

Unfortunately, Cornell, I am running up on time.

It lasted a little bit longer than we anticipated.

Um, if you could put your comment in writing, I'll make sure it's added to the record for this meeting.

If you'll email it to me, I'll make sure that's done.

Okay, just want to recognize you.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you, council members.

We will call this meeting adjourned at uh 1232 p.m.

Thank you.

Great.

Good job.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, sir.

Nice job.

Yeah, yeah.

I may not be a mistake because I gotta get a sign.

Yes, sir.

And Wikipedia.