Well welcome to the true commission today.

You want to introduce start to introduce yourselves?

Good afternoon.

I'm Dr.

Keishan Chambless Hargrove.

I'm a true commissioner.

I was uh I'm representing a president council.

Uh Charles Boravost Chair representing the president council, South West CPAC, Stephanie Oglesby, North CPAC.

Colleen Hamsey, Council of Research.

Tommy Carter, Council Auditor's Office.

Brian Parks, Council Auditor's Office.

Provenza Counting Division.

Marcia Solo, Comptroller.

Welcome everybody here today.

Tommy, did you do you have such a big load today?

You had to bring some help.

Something like that.

Well, it looks like so.

We don't have a quorum, right?

Well, it looks like the very first thing will be the uh city controller Marsha Sello for your presentation.

So good afternoon.

So I am the comptroller.

Joel is my assistant comptroller for systems and reporting.

So he has graciously agreed to do the report for us today.

And I'll be here for his support.

And if you all have questions, we'll do our best to answer them.

Thank you.

Good afternoon.

Uh Joel Provenza again.

Uh our year and closing process.

Um the year and closing process is really a coordinated organization-wide effort, which is really an ongoing effort that the last throughout the year.

Um the OneCloud system has uh monthly closings.

We close all our sub ledgers and our our main general ledger every month.

Um our quarterly closings are more of a focus because of our needs for quarterly reporting.

So we try to make sure that that one is a very clean, those quarterly closings are very clean and thorough.

Um year end closing does become more of a focus as the year goes on.

Uh beginning as early as uh even now, uh April May time frame where internal uh deadlines are established and communicated uh things such as uh AP deadlines, ARA deadlines, procurement deadlines, journal entry deadlines.

And throughout our summer time, we we could begin to focus more and more on the year-end closing and preparing for that with internal meetings uh to discuss our our audit, our past audit, our upcoming audit, past issues, upcoming issues.

Uh we we additionally meet with our our auditors for uh planning out the audit and establishing an audit timeline going along with that timeline.

Uh our our auditors present to us a PBC listing our prepare by client uh assignments which which have due dates, which uh we monitor uh carefully and make sure and again that getting those um submitted timely accurately is critical for the audit timeline.

So we we monitor those actively throughout our months.

Uh those usually come out in September and an ongoing through the audit process.

Um we also uh utilize weekly meetings uh internally.

We can discuss audit issues and um year-in um issues, year-end um audit issues, and and we and throughout our audit, we have uh meetings with our auditors to make sure everything is is running smoothly and on time we could discuss any problems and and address.

So I mean that's a very high level overview of the the process.

Is there anything I can answer any questions to clarify anything?

I mean that that's all I have.

I mean, but I can go into as much detail as you'd like.

Okay.

Okay.

Commissioner Oglesby.

My question is in reference to and commissioners, correct me if I'm wrong, JT JTA.

They constantly go over budget and they don't come back in order to request an additional funds.

Do you have any procedures in place to prevent that from continue to happen?

We don't do anything with JTA, JTA.

That's not part of the answer any questions about they they have to give us their closing, their audits at the end of the year before we can finish our annual comprehensive financial report, but we don't have any control over them or interaction with them other than that.

I was going to state that.

Oh, okay.

Thank you.

Commissioner Mayash, you got anything?

No.

I have one question.

You say you close, you actually close month monthly and then quarterly.

What do you mean by close?

Is it what's what is the word close entail?

We close the month.

Um, like for example, every month in our financial system is closed.

We the due date is usually roughly about um two weeks into the following month.

We try to review all review all the sub ledgers, make sure not nothing, everything's cleaned up and right, you know, the books are good, good to go to close, and we can and with the closing, then you could report on a month, you know.

It's a it's a process where there's multiple modules, you know, accounts payable, accounts receivable, um, fund accounting.

So obviously transactions go in throughout the month, and then their procedures at the end of the month.

Just like if you um are a good personal finance person, you're probably balancing your checkbook, right?

Every month, yeah, right.

We don't do that anymore personally, right?

We use electronics, but we have a really good electronic system.

So every month, as Joel said, at the end of the month, there's a process that starts really the last day of the month, and each module walks through, you have to be in a certain order and go through and make sure everything is balanced, nothing there's not a problem, and then we close it, which means at that point you can't make any other entries into that month unless you open it.

So we do that each month throughout the year, and as he said, it's really about the middle of each month following that it's closed.

And you take we take all of those at the quarterly, take the monthly together to make the quarterly report, correct?

Yeah, at the end of the end of the quarter, so you know, obviously the first quarter would end December 31st.

So the finance department um accounting along with other departments in the city are working to get each month closed.

It's very important that we not only are on time for each month, but at the end of the quarter, we have to be on time because when accounting says we're closed, then the budget division takes over to prepare a report that the budget officer and the CFO then present to the council auditors, then they prepare the report that goes to city council, and there's deadlines for that.

What happens if somebody doesn't what happens if somebody doesn't make it or doesn't come in?

I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you.

What what's the procedure somebody doesn't get theirs closed?

Doesn't submit like if they don't get it closed, they don't submit the proper paperwork at the proper time, or is it all done by computer?

So is nobody well, I think I understand your question.

So yeah, we we there's a process that um we go through to make sure every transaction in the system usually has backup documentation, and that's really important, particularly when we close the entire year and it gets audited because auditors have a way of asking lots of questions and wanting you to prove that everything you have in there is right.

The documentation is very critical for that.

So also, particularly at the end of the quarter, our fund accounting team is looking at each fund and other things to make sure it balances and things don't look weird.

Um, and as if we succeed in doing that on a monthly basis, it makes the quarterly reports much easier to compile, and then the end of the year report also.

And yes, if things are missing, if there's problems, then that can slow things down.

So as Joel mentioned, it's beginning, it's a coordinated effort throughout the departments and the city to make sure everything's in on time, and there can be some valid reasons, things are late, and then invalid reasons things are late, but it's a big effort.

I have one.

This is Commissioner Hogrove.

My question is we were talking about things that close out or things perhaps there are situations where they're deadline dates and they're not meeting them.

What's the consequences to that?

When they don't meet the deadlines.

When somebody doesn't meet a deadline?

Yeah, yeah.

Well, we if one of my staff members having a problem with something, they let me know.

We have weekly meetings in my team.

Then my boss, Susan, the CFO has I mean, I meet with her regularly.

Um, and if we need um more help getting things in, she'll step in.

Okay.

Um, she will communicate with other directors and say, hey, we're having a problem here, we need help here.

So yeah, we can raise it up appropriately.

Okay.

Thank you.

Any other questions?

Apologize for my tardiness, but whenever the barometric pressure changes in Jacksonville people forgetting how to drive, the date is one of those days.

Uh, anyway, but I am here.

So I gather your Ms.

Sallow.

That's fine.

Solo, Sallo.

So okay, all right.

Thank you.

Thanks for for coming and presenting.

So we have set aside until 4 15 for your comments.

We have a minute left.

Any additional information you would like to offer.

Yeah, well, you know, I've been here almost six years now, and right when I got here, we were just beginning to implement um OneCloud R ERP.

And I actually had the pleasure of speaking to this group back then.

Um, and I want to say that we have greatly improved what we're doing.

We have learned more about what the system's doing.

I'm really proud of my team and other people in the city who've really dug in and and figured out how to use this system to the best of our ability.

Um, it's a complicated system, it allows us to do a lot of wonderful things, but learning how to do all those things can take time.

But we keep getting better.

Our external auditors are very happy with us.

We have meetings with them, as Joel said, every week right now during audit season.

And um the team lead today was talking about how much she's enjoyed watching us get better every year, and um just it's been an interesting process.

Thank you very much.

I have a real quick question, and maybe you're the appropriate person, if not.

Uh I see how we uh budget, we adopt our city budget by departments, and yet the annual comprehensive financial report appears to report by function.

So there's disconnect in how we appropriate our money versus how we report it having been spent.

Is there somewhere within the uh executive branch that we can reconcile what was appropriated by the city council and follow that through the spending process until the books are closed out uh at the end of the fiscal year on a quarterly, preferably a monthly basis?

Yeah, they do match, they do match.

I realize it can be complicated to figure out how the accounting string actually has technically it has seven segments, and only five of them are active, really, or four, five or six, I forget.

There's one that's not anyway.

But yes, absolutely.

Um the budget is set and in the system, you cannot spend more than has been appropriated.

Now, sometimes, and I'm I have the ability to override things if it comes in, um, but you've got to give me a really good reason.

Most of the time I'm saying no, I can't override this.

Sometimes there's valid reasons, um, like but but yes, the budget matches the appropriations matches the expenditures, and if it's not, that is a problem.

But when it's reported at the end of the year, the annual comprehensive financial report, it's reported by function, for instance.

We uh we budget, we appropriate based on department.

So JFRD is has uh a budgeted amount.

The sheriff's office has an amount that is budgeted.

But when the uh ACFR comes out, it's reported as a lump sum under uh public safety.

So there's no way to really discern what was appropriated versus what was expended, unless there is a supplemental report about which I have no knowledge that reconciles the two.

So there are requirements for how an ACFAR is created and the tight tables and and charts that have to be provided.

And you're right, there's a lot of different ways things could be reported, and the way the budget's developed, there's regulations and rules for how that's done.

And the way the budget's developed, there's regulations and rules for how that's done.

Um our council auditors might be a better person to talk about how we can reconcile them.

Just a matter of the reporting requirements that we have to do.

And you can certainly do all kinds of reports in the system.

Um the system itself has lots of abilities, which we continue to learn how to do.

Um so if there's something specific you want, you can certainly ask for that up to the appropriate channels.

But you're right.

The budget is reported in a certain way, and then the ACFA has to be reported in a different way.

And the quarterly reports, if you look for them, they're kind of a little different too, but they are all matching the same numbers.

So what you're telling me is there really isn't a uniform method for reporting what was adopted by city council as the budget versus reporting on an interim interim basis every quarter versus what is reported at the end of the year.

I don't know if that's really what I'm telling them.

I'm gonna add Brian on that.

Do you you see what I'm from coming?

So Brian Park's council auditor's office.

Uh first, as it relates to the quarterly summary, it is very similar actually to what is approved by council.

It's going fund by fund.

There are different reports in there that will show certain information by department as well.

You'll see a page that has every department in the general fund.

And so there is lots of detail that go below that.

So that is very much in the same way as Marsha mentioned.

The ACFAR has set rules on how that's reported.

So we don't necessarily have as much control.

Now I don't know whether or not a supplementary information, there could be some options of having something reported there, but that's not that would be six, nine months potentially after the end of the year.

And and you go, I I'll kind of go into this point for a second.

Please keep in mind, even when you're looking at if you pulled on 930 at the end of a year, that's not the all the numbers because there are a lot of adjustments that have to take place between then and when they're able to issue the report.

So, like when we do the quarterly sum, like they do a quarterly summary for the year end, that is an unaudited number with the knowledge that there's other adjustments that are gonna happen, and we always disclaim that.

And there, and at the end of the year, there can even be larger ones that could take place.

So, like a thing that doesn't get accrued every single pay period is like payroll.

Like we don't accrue that every single quarter to adjust for that.

Now our projections that happen in the quarterly summary account for that to give you idea to give council knowledge of how the year end is going to be.

That's why the accounting division work pools the actuals, the budget office is projecting them, and we're looking at all of that to see is does this look like to be a reasonable basis to give council an idea of how the year is going to end?

And so that's the whole point of what the quarterly summary that is that constant update.

I I know the largest single component of our city budget is our human capital.

Yep.

60, 65 percent of the total budget, perhaps just ballparking.

Seems reasonable.

So uh in are our city employees paid uh semi-monthly or bi-weekly.

Bi weekly.

So we have 20 six in arrears one week, but yes.

Okay, so we have 26 pay periods within the year.

Okay, so when we're doing our quarterly reports, uh your accruals are not going to match what you report are not going to match what was actually expended.

There's there's not an accord.

There's not a an accrual that happens until the end of the year, is what the point is.

But the projections, so like when you look at the quarterway summary, they have an a budget, actuals, encumbrances, and projections, like and then they have a projection of where they'll end.

Those projections factor in those accruals.

That's the whole point to get to how many, so it'll be 26 pay periods and actually a day.

That's all factored into the projections to give you a better idea.

It also factors in where maybe we have an expense that happens in October for like two million, but it doesn't it covers the entire year, or we don't have an expense that happens until August.

Like that's what the point of the projections, because you might look at the first quarter, think things are like wait, like there isn't been a lot of spending, there's gonna be a ton of savings, but that's not true because that's where the trends need to be factored in and everything else.

And as I understand it, we we budget on an annual basis.

In other words, the city government doesn't say our budget for this month is going to be X.

The budget for February is going to be Y, they just say our budget for the year is going to be the sum of the first 12 months.

Correct.

And all of the different departments, the administration, the constitution officers all have to manage their budgets to meet those needs.

They have to factor in if revenues come in any less, they need to be reducing expenditures, and that's a part.

That's why we have the quarterly summary though, to identify problems so people can make adjustments as need be as well.

So they don't know that until the quarterly has ended.

Well, the departments should be monitoring that on their own.

We like it's coming in with accounting and us coming in as well.

But they like at the quarter piece, and that's when we're reporting on it.

But every they their department, they have finance people in their different areas, and they should be monitoring things and making sure how things are going.

That's why they may have to go to the mayor's budget review commission to transfer money from this line item to this line item during the year because they notice they're gonna have a problem.

Like electricity is up and we need more money there, or electricity is down in their savings there.

It just there's lots of things that can come into play.

Yeah.

Okay.

So we we just passed uh March 31st.

Uh so at this point, this should be the city's high point of cash on hand because we've just collected it.

It it'll actually be uh basically December, beginning of December.

Yeah, it's gonna it's gonna be right in that prime frame because if you have a mortgage per per state law, the mortgage company has to pay the property taxes in November for the largest discount.

They're gonna pay it at the end of the month, and so sometime in the end of November, beginning of December is when that large transfer is gonna come over.

I defer to treasury on the exact it, but it always depends.

That's usually going to be December, maybe into January, but it that's gonna be the high point on So what percentage of the 12 months collections is collected by the say we'll give it the two months, the four percent and the three percent discounts.

What percentage of that velorum taxes is collected in the bank by the end of December as opposed to what is budgeted for the year?

I I could not tell you that number you can answer that question.

I mean that would be the tax collectors who actually receives and records and processes.

But the city government is responsible for the reporting our financial information.

But I'm I'm I'm I'm just saying they're the ones that collect that piece.

We have a billings that go to it because we reconcile once they finalize the number, we factor that in.

We are like we are good on cash.

So keep in mind we get that cash, and then also if if people don't pay property taxes, there's a tax certificate sale that happens in May, June.

So we're going to receive the cash.

So like the collections, there's a there's actually a statement in the ACFA that shows how much of that we collect.

We we collect our property taxes that in the end because it's going to be either at the discount and we have to, and when we're calculating what to budget, we actually have to budget at a lesser amount to factor in that there will be a discount and everything else.

Okay.

All right.

Who can provide to me a monthly report of what is budgeted to be spent by department versus what was spent by department?

And but again, we don't so do you want it to be budgeted like uh just the one-twelfth?

Because that's not how it's budgeted.

We only budget on a year.

So I know.

So I come from the private sector, and we prepare financial statements every month.

We would budget our revenue every month.

We would budget our expenses every month, and at the end of the month, when we closed out the books, we had to report on the variances.

Right.

But but but you got to keep in mind the difference is we have a legal responsibility that they have to stay in the budget by fund, which is actually different than the private sector, where the private sector, those aren't legal appropriate, like where it's violating.

Right.

Right.

But that's that's where they have to stay within that budgetary authority for the entire year.

And if if you tried to estimate that piece, yes, you can explain the variances, that's fine, but it could create other plans.

And let's try to do it the easy way.

Is there a report that would tell me what was budgeted for fiscal year 2025, ending September 30th, 2025?

So from October 1st, 2024 through September 30th, 2025.

What was budgeted by department by line item?

And what was actually spent by department by line item for that fiscal year?

Is does such a report exist?

They would have to, I would defer to them to creating something like that, but but I'll add in those numbers are not final yet as the AC for is still being worked on.

And you have 120 days after the end of the fiscal year to present final numbers.

Is that correct?

I'm gonna defer.

I think that's a it's actually 6 30 is gonna be state law piece, I believe.

Right.

We have nine months.

Yes.

Do we have until June 30th to get the AC for in?

We we are trying to get it sooner.

Um so we're not gonna know for nine months whether or not we have overspent in city government.

There's as Brian indicated, there's quarterly reports every quarter, and there's a quarterly report for the end of September that comes out in October finally.

So it's a 45-day 45-day lag.

So on a normal quarterly, it's it's 45 days, it's 30 days for them to prepare, and then 15 for us.

I believe the final quarter is 60 days plus then us the 15th, and that's why I think we issue that one on December 15th is actually for the year.

So that's at that point that is the best numbers then, but there's a lot of reconciliation and adjustments that we can only do at the end of the year.

And as Brian mentioned, certain accruals are only done at the end of the year.

So we actually on the accounting side, even though a month has 12 years, we have 13 periods or the adjusting period at the end.

So I'm gonna throw out a radical idea.

So I grew up in the banking world.

I was with Barnett Banks.

We were a publicly traded company, traded on New York Stock Exchange.

We reported quarterly.

So by the end by March 31st, when our first quarter ended, we were on a calendar year basis, and we would release our earnings by April the 10th.

Why does it take city government so long to and we were doing accruals?

We were, you know, matching payroll to the time frames and all of this.

We were accruing our expenses versus you know, actual, we could determine where our variances were.

Why can't city government do that?

I mean, it's all automated resources for one thing and different requirements.

Government is different than industry.

Understand what you're saying, you know.

Um there's there's different requirements in industry also, some of which we don't have to do, but there are a lot of things we do have to do in government, and and resources are part of the issue.

If there was some call that we really had to get every quarter closed within 15 days, that would take more people than we have.

So be and so and you're not the cause of this, and I understand that, but I've got to tell you that as somebody comes out of the corporate sector, I am absolutely bewildered that it takes nine months to close out a calendar fiscal year for a city government of 2.2 billion dollars in revenue and expenditures.

It just doesn't make any sense.

So could we do something innovative?

Could we say that the city of Jacksonville is going to set us a goal to report its financial results within 30 days?

I'm sorry, within 90 days of the quarter of the fiscal year.

So by December 31st, we will have our audited results reporting the results of the fiscal year that ends September 30th.

Well, I mean what would that take?

City council amending the charter, or what do we have to do?

No, I don't think it would be amending the charter.

But so the the fiscal year ends September 30th, and we we do continually improve how fast we can close the books.

But once we close the books, if you want audited, like we our objective was to get the trial balance to our auditors in the middle of January.

Okay.

When that happens, then the audit process takes a while also.

So eventually, I think the best thing that the city can aim for, and I think in the past it had happened, is getting everything done in the audit out by March 31st.

So that's still six months after the end.

I don't know if there are many city governments or county governments that do it any faster than that.

Now, maybe down the road, I mean AI can be a big thing, and there's certain processes that might help speed things up.

Um but it's still gonna take human oversight.

So it comes down to what's really desired and what resources you need in order to accomplish.

So you reference you've referenced resources.

I think that's about the fifth time you've used that word.

Do you mean human personnel?

Do you mean faster computers, computers with uh more memory?

No, I'm really meaningful.

Which of those aspects is it a software issue?

Is it not personnel issue?

Oh, I wouldn't say it's software issues.

I think if you look at the history of how fast we've managed to close since we implemented one cloud, we've gotten a lot faster because you know we had used the old system for at least 15 or more years, and to have that kind of massive change, it took us a while to get the first ACFAR out.

So the fact that we now do it on time and beat the June 30th deadline is good.

So we have good software, and as I mentioned, we're continually learning how to use it better, and we are gonna be able to do some other things using embedded AI, maybe to get some reports faster.

But people, it has to be more people, and also what's I'll need more people to operate a computer system.

I uh the computers aren't a problem, but and learning the software is key, and certain things we can do faster if you've got AI pulling it out for you.

But I don't think we have a software problem or a hardware problem.

It's what's really desired, and you have to staff for it.

How many people do you need?

Well, we, as Brian indicated, there are financial people throughout the city.

And in my division, which is accounting, I have 50 full-time FTEs and three part-time.

And we are incredibly busy.

There's a number of things that we do.

So I'm I'm hearing you, and yeah.

I I've asked this other I've asked this question.

Are we just simply understaffed?

It seems like every city department, they need more people, but they don't get more people.

And every year we get we fall further and further and further and behind in the ratio of uh law enforcement law enforcement officers per 1,000 people from what I'm picking up.

And it's not just you, it's every single person, every single department that has come and spoken before this commission since I've been on it, which I'm heading up on, I think five years.

There's this subliminal message of we just don't have enough people.

I think the other way of looking at that message is we keep being asked to do more and more things with the same number of people or fewer people.

Okay, right.

Thank you.

I've I've dominated the discussion long enough.

Does anybody else have any?

Mr.

Bass.

How's it going?

Um real quick, uh, can I get your your name again?

Brian Parks, Council Auditors Office.

What's the last name?

Would you say Parks P-A-R-K-S.

I've never seen you before.

And I had to look at you like four times because I thought you're Kevin Kerrick.

But you wouldn't be first person.

Yes, so did I.

I walked in Kevin's with us today.

Um, and then my second thing is um I completely understand what you're saying.

Um with the staffing issue.

You know, I I met with the chief of mowing and landscape, and one of the big things with city government is we only have so much money to go around.

And the private sector and the public sector are two completely different things when it comes to payroll.

Y'all aren't paid number one in the world, nor is it costs, you know, somebody that may work this one job in the public sector as far as government.

In the private sector, that job may be paid double.

And is that is that would that be a a true assessment in your opinion?

I think it's probably accurate that in many cases city government government people are not paid as well as they could be in in industry.

Yes.

And so some of the staff shortfall, that's just some of the things that I've heard.

Um, like with the uh mowing and landscaping, we do a lot of subcontracting, and so that kind of helps with the the payroll part because they make based on what they're gonna charge the city.

Um and then when it comes to the officer standpoint, uh my brother, he was a retired police officer.

He got out early because of the kind of cultural thing on police officers.

Not everybody wants to be a police officer right now, it's not a popular thing.

And so that actually ties in a lot because JSO is pumping out the funding, and they keep coming back for a bigger budget for more funding to pay them, and so and getting back on FRS and all that, but that's completely off topic.

But there are reasons why the understaffing and and it goes specifically at each department's different.

Obviously, your department's gonna be different than mowing and landscaping.

And so um I'm just very appreciative because I know y'all are underpaid and understaffed, so um, but I know there's some things we can work on, but I feel like that's gonna be on an individual level and working with you individually on your departments.

Um, and so anyways, I just wanted to share my appreciation and and uh I look forward to working with you in any way we can.

Thank you.

And I think I as I mentioned I'm really proud of my team.

Um, they do a great job and they are very enthusiastic, and people don't work for the government as you're indicated because of money, because we don't want to go work for selling Pepsi.

I mean, my favorite soft drink is coke, but I don't want to go work for them, you know.

Any other questions?

Thank you, everybody, for being here.

We're seven minutes behind schedule, but uh this is this is just something that we're we're digging into on a methodical basis, and uh we will continue the process and we may ask you to come back again uh in the interim.

I will uh do some exploring on how I can find the numbers that I'm seeking.

So uh thank you very much.

So the spending committee will adjourn.

We will take let's take a two-minute break, the three-minute break.

We'll come back at 4 40 as the full commission.

On the agenda is uh a presentation, Mr.

Parks.

You can also talk about the data from that uh that's why I'm here is on the grants piece.

So on our agenda is discussion of the data on the public grant, and I don't see uh he's excused, okay.

And then uh our other two items on the agenda are the council auditor reports nine zero two and nine zero three uh audits of the supervisor of elections and the uh believe it was the tax collector.

Nice.

Why would you do the verification?

I don't know what time I ninety five was a parking lot.

So I went up how long is that.

I went up about five.

I went up uh US one.

Well, it it moved better than ninety-five was moving, but I think whatever the bottleneck was was cleared, and then ninety-five started to move.

That point I was already on the US one.

Mr.

Bass.

It's four forty-one.

We'll call the meeting of the True Commission for Thursday, April 9th, 2026 to order.

Uh we met previously as a spending committee.

We are now in session as the full commission.

Uh we have a quorum, I believe.

One, two, three, four, five, six, seven.

I understand we've lost a member.

Is that correct, Colleen?

Okay.

Uh yeah, Ms.

Letisia.

Okay.

Uh we have how many excused absences.

Two, Mr.

Lures and Miss Roundsville.

Who was uh Andrea representing CPAC or she was city council president appointed, I think Ron appointed her if I remember correctly.

Okay, she's a council appointment appointee.

Yes.

All right.

Okay.

Has any everybody had a chance to review the minutes of the last month's meeting?

Okay.

Mr.

Nooney, you're not recognized.

This is a meeting of the true commission.

You're not a member of the true commission.

Well, I just you need to have a seat.

If you have a concern, I would suggest you direct it to Ms.

Hamsey to be sent to me or to speak to one of the commissioners individually before or after the meeting.

All right.

So we will move forward with today's agenda.

We are having a discussion, a follow-up discussion on the uh methodology for determining the sampling of that uh public service grant uh report that Mr.

Carter uh summarized last month.

Let's take some time, Mr.

Parks.

If you would present your information uh and then uh at least we'll have it for the record that uh Mr.

Lewis can uh avail himself of that information.

And I did find a recording of our meetings, and they're pretty extensive, so you can use as much detail as you want, and then we can go back and listen to it.

They don't produce a transcript, though.

Is that correct?

Okay, you could use a software and just make it dictate if you wanted a written transcript.

But you do they the recordings are pretty good, high quality.

All right, thank you.

You'll proceed.

Uh Brian Parks, council auditors office.

Um, and I will say as I've actually provided all that we've already Tommy already forwarded on the information I have here, including the data itself and stuff like that.

So to Mr.

Loars.

Okay, he's and he's received it right.

Has he given given any feedback on how he's utilized it?

Um he said that he's received it.

He has not done any analysis with it yet.

He wanted Mr.

Parks to kind of go over that with you guys today, and he will be doing his analysis and coming back in May to speak about it.

Okay.

Let me before he starts, is this the portion where I think we formed a committee last time or several us were on the committee?

And if so, why would only Mr.

Loars get it if that's the case?

Instead of the entire committee, who was going to be part of the committee.

He's he's chairman of he's chair of the committee.

It would be up to him to disseminate the information through Colleen to the members of the committee.

This is I mean, I love the sunshine law, but it does serve as uh an operational obstacle sometimes.

Uh delivery.

No, I I understand that Mr.

Lures can't send it to me, and I can't send it to Mr.

Bass.

My question is, why did it go to Mr.

Lewis and not to all of us, me, Bass Lowers, and whoever else was on the committee.

Uh we should have all received this information since we were on the committee, at least I would think.

That's that's a fair statement.

So is it possible to disseminate the information to all those on the committee?

And you have a list of the people that volunteered for that kind of I can I can forward it to the entire commission if that'll just make it easier to anybody.

So I would think in the future, if there's some data being sent, uh that I would just request that we all get it.

Uh not just Mr.

Lures or not just me.

I I will just clarify that was there were specific questions in there that we were responding to, so necessarily responding those back to everybody else becomes a little bit complicated sometimes.

So keep keep that in mind where there was more than just data, there was specific questions, and when we're answering those questions, we can get into a an area at as counsel as the uh committee member that is mentioned.

It's you can get in sunshine law issues and stuff like that, but they can forward on the data, and I can maybe word it slightly different just so it's more generic that so it can be passed along.

So I'll get that across to everybody, or I'll get it over to Colleen so she can sign it out.

Do you want to kind of give us a summary of your findings?

So and again, as I understood it was kind of present on the methodology we use.

I'm gonna kind of split this into two parts.

First is because we have two different objectives.

We had an objective one that was looking at payments, and objective two was looking at the like the monitoring procedures and everything else that that that the grants office was doing.

So, first off, our first objective was was to determine whether the grants and contract compliance division properly accurately and timely paid recipients of the public service grants and direct contracts.

So I just want to remind everybody it is the direct contracts, those and that's a terminology that may not make sense.

Sometimes there are awards to nonprofits that are approved directly by counsel to them, those were included in this sample size.

So and just a reminder back to what Tommy presented last meeting is the grants and contract our conclusion on that was the grants and contract compliance division, timely paid recipients of public service grants and direct contracts.

However, we found significant issues with the payments not being made properly and accurately based on the supporting documentation maintained by the division.

So our scope of that audit was uh for that objective was October 1, 21 through March 31st, 23.

Um, based on when we had started the work, that's why it's kind of in that odd uh time frame.

The population was 11 million dollars in payments to 60 different entities.

Um so from there we do a sample, and so we selected the sample size given the population size.

We could go ahead and do a statistical and we selected them at random based on statistical size.

We selected 87 invoices for testing, which was a coverage of 1.4 million dollars in payments to 54 on 54 different contracts to 37 different entities.

So we're covering a good chunk of the different things, which makes us feel good about that piece.

Do you have a question?

So in terms of auditing standards, you're meeting the threshold in terms of dollar volume and the number of items.

Yes, and and I will say is you may be more familiar with like a financial standards.

This is we follow performance audit standards of Gagas, which is slightly different, but yes, we're always gonna look to make sure we're not getting skewed just the one grant, you know, and and I'll get into another one where it was a much smaller the next objective smaller sample size, I mean population.

So we we needed to go judgmentally in like to kind of make sure we were grabbing a a piece that was representative of every everything.

So as opposed to a random sample, there is sort of a uh a qualitative uh sample.

Yeah, and again now we did select the 87 invoices themselves at random, but but we compare that back to make sure we're comfortable with that's why we look at how many different contracts are we covering, how many different you know what I mean?

Because we want to make sure it's not skewed to just one place or the other.

Um in general, we hope that we never have to go ahead and add something, and is what we would typically do if we we felt like it was not enough.

We would add on top of because we wouldn't want to remove something that that kind of can lead its way to like looking like we're you know, height, you know what I mean?

It's much better just to add on to testing and stuff like that in that example.

So um for those 87 invoices on our sample, we tested whether each was supported with proper documentation that was uploaded into the accounting system, which we were just talking about, and with detailed documentation kept by the divisions.

There are certain records that they have over there that's not uploaded.

Um we also tested whether payments were reviewed and approved by the division.

Next, we reviewed the supporting documentation and grant agreements to determine whether the payments were allowable, sufficiently supported and accurately, and then lastly, we checked if the payments were made in a timely manner.

Um for all the payments in our population, we did review to identify any potential duplicate payments.

So, like this is where we do some analyticals on the full population.

We we do different things to say like is this an invoice number being repeated, same same vendor and everything else to kind of identify, and then we will go in and research those to see if there's anything to identify.

Um a purchase order was created for the correct entity too.

We also look to make sure that the name of the grant awards matched up with the entity itself.

So the chair.

So I got so you so you did 87 samples.

Of that 87, were there any two or three of uh uh the same person or the same entity?

In other words, did you have three from me and one from him and two from him?

And that's what yes.

So when I mentioned that there were 54 different contracts covered to 37 different entities.

So for sure, so that that 54 versus the 87, because it's a contract to an invoice, because you can actually have multiple entities have mean an entity have multiple contracts, so we had some of that, and then we also have some of where we might have had a sample from two invoices for the same entity as well.

So what was the highest number per entity that you may have seen?

Three, four, ten, fifteen?

Um I would have to and and and who were those entities?

Like the top three entities that you've seen, more than one that you looked at, who who was that entity?

I okay.

I do not have the information in that form right now.

I mean, and that's what I can forward to after.

I I absolutely what what I'll send to you, and I'm sorry, apologize for you not having an advance is it has every single sample we did has the population of every single payment, it has the sample for everyone, which includes the grant, the name of the entity, the PO, what it was for, and then we also break down the findings so it that every entity by the findings.

So if you see an internal control weakness one has a it mentions that we had issues with let's say eight different entities, you will see what those eight entities were specifically and stuff like that.

So I would like to see if you can send it to Colleen to send us.

I would like to see every one of them that you picked.

Surely it's it's you it's somewhere, right?

You picked up the Yeah, no, I'm looking at it.

I will say that.

Yeah, and send it to us.

And well, if you're looking at it, if you if you had to guess who the top three are, who would or is it or is it too hard to do that right?

It's not sorted that way.

So let me see if I can sort it that way.

Um, because it's literally by it gets assigned a number basically, and so but let me see if and these are invoices that you sampled.

Yes, they are invoices.

Examine these invoices.

What was the total number of invoices?

That's how we're gonna do that.

So for the 11 million dollars, I don't um the total that should be about 743 invoices.

Yeah.

Um the 11 million was dollar amount of the 87 invoices.

No, no, the eleven million is for the 740.

43.

Yes.

The 1.4 million is what we tested.

Out of the for which was the 87 invoices.

Yes.

And it was 1,400,000 in round nuts.

Yes.

Yep.

Okay.

Thank you.

Right.

And then I think uh if you can would you like to see the spread of the case?

Yeah, I mean the 87, and then what was identified on each one?

Yeah, I would like to see.

I think that would be helpful.

What I want to see is did you see seven from me and one from him and ten from him?

I mean, there is absolutely like I'm looking through like ability housing had three, Claire White mission had five different invoices that popped up.

Family foundations of Northeast Florida had seven, you know, but then like First Coast Crime Stockers stoppers might have only had one.

Um game does it also show who for lack of better words, uh who the CEO of those entities are.

I mean, who's the no, we do not we do not maintain that.

But if you can send that information uh and and possibly before the next meeting, I don't want to wait until the day for the next meeting to get it, maybe next week or something.

I I will get an email to Colin.

I'd love to look at that by the end of by midnight tonight.

So and then let me ask a question.

So these 11 million dollars, this is what was funded from the public service grant process.

Not just that.

Okay, what we're thinking about.

Remember direct contracts that are directly approved by city council, and that's the only way those are awarded.

So it's either PSG, which is the funding approved by council, and then the it's awarded by the public service grants council, or it's a direct appropriation and an award from city council.

And these contract for services, would these include kids' hope alliance?

No, that's a separate one.

Um that you perform a separate audit of kids' hope alliance.

We the last audit we did of them was a few about five or six years ago, if not longer at this point, and that was actually on their grants that they receive, and we were making sure that they were utilizing the funds properly through that method.

And they've not been audited since five years.

Again, we uh as as a thing, we the city is a very large audit.

We have a we have a staff of ten auditors that work with me as we stop during the summer for the budget.

So no, we we have not been able to be back out there on another piece.

There has been certain coverage also as well, because we look at what the uh um IG's inspector general's office does related to those, and then also when we were auditing those awards, like of what this is, a lot of what we were getting into is also how they were contract oversight of what they had awarded, so it covered a lot of things, and we had a lot of findings back then, and that and they've put in a lot of improvements.

We have already followed up on that to see that they've implemented everything we had from that audit.

So it's 11 million dollars of grants and contracts total.

For for for with it that had actual payments within that 18 month period, yes.

What would be the breakout of grants versus contracts?

Like how of the 11 million, how much were grants and how much were contracts?

Do you have those numbers?

You're saying of how they were awarded of PSG.

I mean, they're both they're all grants.

So there is not like a you're saying of what the boarding authority is.

I thought I heard you say you audited contracts.

You only audited grants.

These were all grants, yes.

Yes, grants.

Okay, so make sure that the the office is I can understand.

The office is called like grants and contract compliance, and that you might have heard me like that.

That's why that terminal which falls under the Department of Finance and the finance department, yes.

Or finance department.

Yes, yep.

Okay.

You may have said this.

Uh you did there's a lot of information you gave, so I appreciate it.

Were were these you said they were randomly absolutely uh so when you ran no request to look at mine or his absolutely not.

Okay.

And and I I'll be clear on this is so keep in mind the staff that's actually doing this piece, they don't get involved in it, like they're just doing that work.

Now I will review and approve the parameters.

Like that's how even my involvement gets into it.

It's like there's certain things when you're doing a statistical sample, like where you're selecting, you have to have like a what confidence level you think, what the tall board, like there's different things, and that's where I'm gonna come into play and stuff like that, but it's not on the individual selection.

I'll make sure that we have good coverage on the overall dollar amounts, but it's not going to pick certain entities and stuff like that.

Yes.

Yep.

Comments down there.

And I will say is I have another objective to go over when we're done with this one.

We're not gonna we're gonna take our time on this.

Yeah.

Because this is a lot of it was a lot of interest on this subject by the members of this commission.

This is a quick question.

On a typical audit, I mean, nothing's typical, obviously, every department's different based on in different sizes, but how long does it typically take?

Because just I'll give you an example why I'm asking.

Uh the chief of milling and landscape when I was meeting with him and we met multiple times, and one of the things he said was they're still auditing me.

Or they're still checking out the following up.

And so that's so that's the thing is like it's we can do every audit in the world, but it's pointless if they don't go and address the issues.

And that's why we follow up until it's done.

And that and we are current, we are currently doing the first follow-up of that mowing.

And the timing on when we do those depends on risks associated with things like this grant audit, we're gonna probably follow up on sooner than we may have because of the significance of the of the items that were noted during there.

And the office, if you go to the responses, they they've indicated they've already started implementing these things because that's what we want to go over, so we can validate that they've actually implemented.

We don't trust anybody like they tell us we did it.

Half the time we'll go out there and we might find out maybe they haven't quite got it there yet.

So is it just one follow-up or multiple?

It can be multiple.

It um it can be four, it can be you know, it's whatever it takes to we get it done, right?

And that's and and we and we do get to a reasonable list.

Now, the only time we may get into a the entire system is changed.

Like if you audited one payroll system, you may go, we're down these last two.

We want to uh go in and do a new audit of the payroll and start fresh.

And so sometimes that'll occur.

Okay, that's great.

That's till closing.

Yeah, I just I only asked that, and I'm glad you followed up with that because one of the things it like, for instance, as far as following up, when they do a landscape or mowing check, they'll follow up one time, you know, and check something, and then even if it's done or not, they're doing that one follow-up, you know.

And so I just wanted to make sure it's something that we're regularly following up on and until completion.

So that's great.

Thank you.

Um questions?

Right.

Next next uh next item.

Yep.

All right.

So objective two was on the monitoring piece.

And so now we're looking at monitoring the contract itself, and sometimes it's even monitoring the entity itself, because if even if they have two grants, you're really monitoring certain there's certain procedures that they do that only apply to that.

So based on that, um, I'm gonna I'm skipping ahead when we get to the objective real quick.

The objective was to determine whether the grants and contract compliance division properly monitor the compliance of recipients of public service grants and draft contracts.

Our conclusion on that was that they did not properly monitor whether public service and grants and contract recipients, um, direct contract recipients.

I now know why you're hearing me a contract as I'm saying it, it's still a grant whenever I say contract in that case.

And uh we're in compliance with the terms of their agreements.

This scope, because we needed to look at monitoring for it, is only one year, because you need to see a beginning and an end.

If you don't see that, you're kind of missing on a monitoring piece.

And so with this, there were 65 grants to 46 different entities during that 12 months with an award amount of 11 million.

Now, please keep in mind that does not mean payment.

That just means they were awarded 11 million dollars.

That's why you might go, well, I heard 11 million on payments there.

That doesn't make sense.

You would think it's more, it's because it's the difference in timing.

And so we had to, because of this being at a size of 65 grants with this, we decided to select first off any grant that had race any grant award greater than 500,000 dollars.

So and there were four of those, because given the dollar amount, it's significant enough that those need to be a part of the monitoring because they we need to make sure.

From there, we selected at random eight other grants to give us a total of 12 different grants.

Um, this was coverage of five million dollars of that total 11 million dollars to kind of give you an idea of coverage, um, which is gonna make sense because we selected those four largest.

Um for those 12 grants in our sample, we tested if quarterly monitoring was performed properly by varying find that forms were filled out and signed by the grant recipients, forms were reviewed by the division staff.

Goals listed in the quarter reports were matched the goals that were actually in the contract application, which sometimes they didn't as many of these things.

Goals were met by the end of the grant term.

Go uh for goals not met.

We checked if an explanation was provided and inquired about actions taken by staff and assess those for reasonableness.

Also, for those 12 grant recipients, we confirmed that the annual review was performed properly by verifying that the forms were filled out by the division staff, that would be the grants and contract compliance division.

The grades pass, fail not applicable, and the sources cited for each were reasonable.

Conclusions on overall compliance were reasonable, actions were again taken if there were more than one fail.

Performance data reported on the third quarter forms were verified as part of the and that based on timing when they were doing the annual reviews, they should have been verifying that third quarter.

We were testing if they were doing that.

Now, even with all that, we still actually tested for all 65 grants in our population.

That quarterly monitoring was performed by the division by just pulling stuff to see if there was actually a quarterly monitoring report on file.

We also, for all 46 grant recipients, which is the individual recipients themselves, we confirmed the annual monitoring was performed by the division at least.

So somebody at least went and did that.

We didn't necessarily test every piece in it, but we wanted to make sure that they were at least going and doing what they should, you know, showing up there.

Um we also reviewed the annual template to make sure that what testing procedures they were doing and verifying made sense and were being updated based on current things.

Um lastly, we uh tested compliance with chapter 118.

You'll hear that terminology.

That's like our uh city grants um policies.

There's certain things on like what city grants cannot be spent for.

We made sure that they were following those terms.

We uh we also tested that the total amounts listed on the last monthly invoice for each line item agreed to the sum of the prior month and stuff like that, and that everything kind of pulled forward in a proper way.

So that's kind of a general overview of what we did with this piece.

Um and I would just kind of you asked about length of time a little bit, and I kind of want to hit on this.

This audit looked at a lot of stuff and a lot of grants, and you could have easy time frame.

Right, right.

But it but it's you could easily have broken, especially that objective.

You could have an audit for each one of those grants.

And and and yes, but but we also want to make sure that we're not skewing things because if you look at one grant, you might think things are really good or things are really bad and not have a proper you know assessment of everything.

And so we want to make sure that we're looking at kind of a you know, good, you know, sample of things that can help us draw a conclusion that helps us meet our audit standards, and but it just it gives a city council and the public, I think a better idea of what's going on there.

So I do have a question.

So uh through the chair to the council auditor.

Um so when somebody you said awarded versus what was the what was the terminology used?

Awarded versus paid.

Paid, okay.

So for instance, if they said your analogy you're giving here is that if they're awarded that and they're saying you're gonna get that, you just weren't we just haven't paid you yet.

You're gonna get it on specific date or maybe no okay.

I'm only wondering because with the budget, when I'm trying the I'm blinking right now with the wording that we have on the budget when it's it's going over to the next physical so some of these grants, and so there are some of them that would have been crossing periods, they could have had a carry-forward language in there.

So it may be a grant there are some of them that could have been on a 7-1 to 630 because it was a direct contract awarded in the summer, okay, or were executed.

So there are different ways that can go.

This is a bit different.

So PSGs by chapter 118, they're done on 930.

There is no carry forward.

Okay.

The direct contracts could have them.

Now, when you get into the mowing contract, that's where there can be certain monies that are encumbered.

That's a different type of law that comes into play.

And that's that's what I was.

I was wondering with that line item on the budget, if that was part of the there's a there's a piece not on these grants, but on other things where if an amount is encumbered by year end per the municipal code, it can be carried forward, but it can only be utilized for that purpose.

And some of that's based on contract timing, so that you can execute the contract and get those through.

That's why that occurs.

So thank you.

Questions?

Questions of this in so you're the that this last part we've been discussing, the uh four million dollars was monitored, or you reviewed for monitoring purposes, total grants of four million dollars.

Is that correct?

Five million, okay.

And how many grants were represented in that five million dollars?

That'd be 12.

12 grants.

12 of the 65.

12 of the 65.

And uh what were uh can you identify those 12?

Sure.

If you want to, I'll go ahead and read them.

I'd like to know which 12 which entities you reviewed that comprise the 12 grants.

Yep.

Uh goodwill and so I'm gonna kind of tell you how they were selected real quick too.

That's first eight.

Is this an audit or is this what Lewis requested?

This is this is the update he's providing us.

This was in the audit piece.

Yeah, the I only thing I requ provided to them was data from the like okay, what we tested and everything else.

But yes, you'll get this.

This will be a tab in the spreadsheets that I send over and stuff like it.

Yeah, but but it was uh goodwill industries of North Florida.

Uh the grant award was 225,000.

Cure Violence Global of 150,000.

I'm sorry, who?

Cure Violence Global.

That was a part of like the uh uh mayor's cure violence program that was one of the entities there.

And this was under previous mayor.

Yeah, this that this period is 21 to 2122.

Yes, all under the previous everything in the audit was under the prior administration.

And we have an act, and I don't necessarily get into the mayor piece.

There were actually five different heads of the grants and contract compliance division while we were conducting this audit, which also causes delays as we're kind of going.

You know what I mean?

There was we also had some things where somebody was out on FMLA, but it's there's some different things that cause, and so um there was a lot of changeover different ways it went from an office to a division, so there was a lot of turnover there.

So there was a lot of turnover there.

So um I don't remember cure violence was last one I think I just mentioned right I have a question for follow-up question.

Yeah.

So through the chair to council auditor with the goodwill you say goodwill of industries of North Florida understood yeah.

So did it have on there anywhere you might already said this does it say there are anywhere what they requested the grant for so in this spreadsheet and stuff so keep in mind I have seven binders of audit of work papers for this audit there's tons of work papers that we go through related to this.

And so we are going through every contract.

Yes the contract is gonna tell what it is in this spreadsheet do I have what um let me see I may I have the ordinance that authorized it hold on sorry you asked about goodwill uh that goodwill was the academic yeah we so in the spreadsheet in the population piece whenever we send that out that'll it'll have the program name that'll at least give you some sort of idea that is the um a step program I don't know if any guys have ever heard that's the academic support through employment process um that started five six years ago underneath council member Bowman actually on that was the how much what was the amount for them that one was 22500.

Okay.

And who was the council member or not that would not have been that year.

The direct contract I couldn't tell you in this year.

I'm just where funding started at some problem thank you.

Yep.

The next one was the Claire White mission 100 and um 200 I'm sorry I gotta get into the contract's lesson for testing 1500 Family support services of Northeast Florida 1500 Lutheran Social Services 149,683.

We care Jacks 1500 the Potter's House Christian fellowship 800,000 dollars and Northeast Florida Sober Living Alliance 25,000 dollars um and I'm realizing I I think the order of operations on this is slightly off of what I said we did the eight and then we selected the over 500 thousand dollars because the next uh four are the ones over 500,000 which is reintegration solutions Inc.

of Jacksonville bridges to uh for 800,000 bridges to the cure Inc.

800,000 operation new hope 600,000 and I am salzpocher center for the homeless 931300 and so some of those can be through PSGs DC direct contracts and stuff like that and that's um yeah well the ones over 5000 by definition are all are all going to be direct contracts because a PSG at the time would have been limited to 1500.

So through the chair so and you may have said this as well so if you added all the grants I guess per year that this budget how many millions is it?

So for what was in the population of what could have been it's not necessarily every grant because again we don't include the kids hope alliance and stuff like that.

No forget the code alliance yeah yeah so so the grant piece on there was uh 11 million dollars so we have 11 million with this and then some I've heard different numbers 63 million with KHA draw from some I'm not I'm not gonna it that seems reasonable it might be in the fit I that number has changed quite a bit over the years and I I don't really always myself but but somewhere in that area yeah and and again there's other grants in the city as well that aren't just these either um but we hadn't been into the grants and contract compliance and that's why we focused in we were focusing on which ones they were monitoring we did not include I will make a point of clarity was the uh the grant to the Cultural Service Council that was not a part of this because that's an entirely other process it's again we're just trying to make sure because it once it gets too much else we're adding in other things and that can even cause longer time for the audit to get out the um the total of these grants over the last five years do you have any data on what the uh comparison purposes what was it in fiscal let's say 2122 so so the PSGs 24 and 25 the last four fiscal public service grants I can have some sort of number and that that's roughly been at the 7 million dollars I think for the last several years.

It's been relatively static.

Yeah the uh the problem is direct contracts can fluctuate quite a bit and then you also have like when it gets into overall grant like I I'm I think it was uh miss lockhart who several years ago underneath the prior administration w worked on a project of pulling every single grant within the city of what we award or what we pay to nonprofits and that number is very large like that's that's not it because we don't keep records in that way necessarily that's not something I can easily provide because it's not sometimes a nonprofit may be bidding on a contract and it's not through a grant method and stuff like that.

Like that's that's not it because we don't keep records in that way necessarily.

That's not something I can easily provide because it's not sometimes a nonprofit may be bidding on a contract and it's not through a grant method and stuff like that.

So um the like if you're talking about in this bucket, this this amount has risen at times, it has dropped at times and stuff like that.

Um but I can pull separately out of here and I can send over for the public service grants.

Um, what those are what what city councils approved for the last last five years if you'd like you do you have the ability to pull the grants, the total dollar amount of the grants, and if any if an organization has one grant, two grants, three grants.

Uh I would be interested to know of the entities with which our current city council members are associated.

What is the total dollar amount of grants or grant over the last four years?

I don't know the answer to what all nonpro you know what I mean, entities that they may or may not be associated with.

If I may, that's that's the purpose of the subcommit subcommittee that you formed is to make those connections.

That's not what the auditors do, they do the numbers and delving into who the CEO is or who's on the board of whatnot.

That's that's your job.

Okay.

So uh the information that was provided to you.

Will the subcommittee be able to make that determination from that information?

I didn't even look at those files to be honest with you.

Um they'll know the names, but I I you you may know who those people, you know, in the case.

Well, it's pretty it'll have the name of the organization, and then you have to do the detective.

We just go back into the uh uh minutes of the council meeting, and they each excuse themselves when their organization comes up for a vote.

Well, there's a number of ways that you can identify it, and then the city council approves the uh grant, and then the next organization that comes up, that member of the council recruits recuses him or herself from the vote, and the previous council member who recused himself or herself, then votes to approve that grant.

That's sort of how we're they're playing the the musical chairs of funding their various organizations without directly voting on the appropriation.

There's an actual item on the city council agenda where they pull out separate before they've pass the final city budget, and then they because each of those items pass, they're in the final budget, then when they take that final vote, they can all vote in total on the top, they can vote yes on the total city budget without having directly voted to fund their organization.

That's that's the process they use.

No, you're talking about conflict bills, so they do parts of the city.

Pull that out separately.

That's when people can't vote on to make it yeah.

They identify they have a conflict, and then they don't vote.

And the other council members who are involved with nonprofits, they vote, yes.

So it gets put in the city budget, and they go to the final vote, and bingo bango.

City budget's been adopted, including all the funding of the grants to the various nonprofits with which city council members are associated.

That's the process.

So any other that's kind of what I wanted to say was with our city officials, whether whether it be council, whoever uh how many of those are associated with those grants?

But but you're not able to tell them we'll have we'll have to dig that out.

Yeah, I mean that that would not be a part of the that's fine.

But when you give her the names of these, we can dig that out.

Yeah, that sure.

I mean, it's it's pretty easy.

I mean, we sort of know just anecdotally which council member is with which nonprofit.

Okay, that one goes to Mr.

Howland, that one goes to Mr.

Carico, that one goes to Miss Pittman, etc.

So all right.

Any other questions or comments on okay?

All right, we are uh on questions for the presenter, which runs down through 525.

It is now 517.

Any follow-up questions that you'd like to ask while he's here.

Okay, all right.

Thank you very much.

Appreciate it.

Tommy, why don't we take this time for you to go over reports 902 and 903?

Actually, um I um I have four reports to oh okay or five reports to um to cover 903.

Uh I won't cover because that has not been presented to the finance committee yet.

It came out, I believe, yesterday.

Is that the one on the tax collector?

That's the one on the clerk, of course.

Clerk, clerk of the courts, yes.

And so that one uh I'll have to present at the May Committee, May Troop Commission meeting due to it not being presented yet to the finance committee.

Um the true commission, uh the council auditors office has released five reports since the last true commission meeting.

Um we released uh report number uh 857a, which was the follow-up on the equestrian center audit that was released March 5th of 2026.

Uh this was uh the first follow-up on the equestrian center uh uh audit.

Uh there were four issues in the audit, and uh all four issues were cleared on this.

What were the issues?

Um brief summary.

Brief summary there um they weren't monitoring, they weren't properly monitoring like there were overpayments.

Um they weren't uh there was um let's see, trying to think here, they did not sufficiently um enforce the the terms of the contract to ensure that the payments were properly supported, they were accurate or authorized.

Um there was some insurance, lack of support for reimbursements, there was a lack of um uh insurance requirements, things like that in the first in the first in the original audit.

So for instance, the equestrian center, let's say that they have a contract to uh supply so many pounds of sweet feed over the course of the year to to feed horses, and and does the city own horses out there or simply people board their horses out there?

I don't believe the city owns horses out there.

I believe uh it's a it's a boarding and and then it's also for events, you know, rodeos, things like that, horse shows.

So then when the equestrian center makes a payment under that contract, they don't have a supporting invoice to support the check that was issued.

Um well it was um uh trying to remember back.

And then how do they how do they not account for overpayments and it was uh reimbursement uh well, it was one of the issues they uh in the for the original audit there there was um this this was an excel spreadsheet they were using it wasn't uh uh always it was inaccurate at places and things like that.

So there were some overpayments and uh and an and or underpayments that we we picked up in the first audit.

Uh we went back and we uh looked and reviewed uh they've made changes to the to their tracking.

Uh now they're they keep uh a running total of the amount that the council approves each year that um for the payment of the contract and things out there.

Uh they've uh uh anything uh one of the one of the issues uh was insurance requirements, they didn't have the right insurance requirements, they they do now that you know according to risk management, things like that uh that we we look to to ensure that they are now uh doing out there and the equestrian center comes under the department of parks and recreation.

Yes.

Okay, and is there does the equestrian center operate as a division within that department?

No.

How does it uh how does it report functionally up to uh uh the uh department director?

Well it's part of the um they have a contract administrator, they have uh an administrator that uh an accountant that uh works with the equestrian center and uh North Florida um equestrian society who's who's the manager out there, uh things like that, and it's all comes into as part of parks, um, and then it runs up the chain through parks to the parks department up to the parks the director things it's not a separate division no do we know how much the overpayment was across uh from the original audit.

Um I don't I don't remember uh the exact amount.

I know it was um I think it was accounted for and it was uh um it was made whole.

I say you recouped it.

Yeah, yeah.

No further questions on that one.

I'll move on to the next one.

Please do.

Okay.

Uh this the second um was report number 726 D.

Uh this is the follow up.

This is the fourth follow-up on the municipal code compliance division revenue audit.

Uh so it's released on March 6, 2026.

Kind of to your point, Commissioner Bass.

Uh we keep going until things are finally done.

This is the fourth time going out there.

Um they uh there were there were two items remaining from the third follow-up.

Um and um and these items were were cleared.

Uh the two remaining issues from the third follow-up was that they were receiving payments directly rather than directing the payments be made to the tax collector's office.

Um and and and then so they had a uh so lack of segregation of duties there, and then uh the other one was um access rights um for the um former employees um uh it was it's the same old access rights that we had former employees could could uh could still have um access and those were uh those were addressed and fixed.

So you said that to the chair to the council auditor, you said that they were taking payments directly instead of it going directly to the tax collector?

Correct.

So how are they taking the so they people were writing them a check or to the city of Jacksonville or things like that, and then they then they would deposit it with the tax collector's office to get the the the division would rather than it being going directly to the tax collector's office and you know sending it to tax collector?

Cause a delay, uh delays the deposit that way.

Um and also uh the division didn't have the proper segregation of duties to be properly handling checks coming in.

So was that because the division chief did you haven't organized enough or um well?

I mean you may have had one person, and I I did not read the original audit.

Um may have had one person um let me see here from the notes the uh I don't know however it was that it was not um they weren't handled they weren't following the cash handling procedures for the city.

Uh one person coming in, one person receives a deposit, another person or one person receives the check, one person prepares the deposit, the other person you know deposits it, things like that.

There's there's various there's certainly so we have rules and procedures for all this, and they were just like just do what we want to do over here.

Well, uh which division is it?

I'm uh I'm I'm I won't make that assumption.

Yes, I know what they what all I know is that they weren't it was not being properly done.

Which division was this?

This was the municipal code compliance division.

And why so that they impose a fine if somebody's not in compliance with the city code?

Correct.

And then they are and they should issue a citation.

Is that the process?

And then the per individual who's being fined should take the citation to the tax collector's office and pay the fine.

Correct.

And they were coming.

Personnel from this division were accepting payment.

Correct.

Do we know if people were being paid cash?

We don't I don't know that.

No, uh, from the original audit, I don't I don't know from the from C.

Um I do know that and so are the city procedures are that if you if you are going to make a payment pursuant to a citation, like when I get a parking ticket, I don't walk up to the parking division and hand the guy a check.

I take it down to Mr.

Overton's office and and pay them.

I go through wait until one of the windows opens up and then I you know pay it and you know uh take care of it that way.

Um but that wasn't happening here.

It did not appear to be happening here, right?

Which is why I was in the so the personnel don't know that they're not allowed to take money.

Uh so when did this audit start?

When did this begin?

Is it is this a long time ago?

We're talking last week.

No, this was uh quite a while ago.

Okay.

I don't know the exact time when that was.

Do you know the year?

Uh I'd have to look that up.

Okay.

Can we move on to the next audit?

Do we know how much that dollar value is often?

I don't I do not know.

Didn't pull C.

I just usually when we get to this point and when we're when they're cleared, it's they they they've changed and have implemented our recommendations.

Or else there's been a new person hired that knows what they're doing.

Yes, that's why it's crucial to me that we know the name.

I um could you provide that in for supplemental information to us?

Of um when the audit was done.

Yes, sir.

Yeah.

You want to know the total doll dollar volume?

I will see if it's in the in the audit.

Um if it's not.

Well, I would hope that there's somewhere in the audit there there's a summation of the dollar value of items audited.

I will see.

That's what's in the audit.

When it was in the dollar value.

Okay.

Stephanie, you're you're an accountant.

Are you an accounting major week?

No.

Business.

Okay.

Okay.

Um third report is the report number 856B.

This is the follow-up on the electronic funds transfers in audit.

Um this was our second follow-up.

Um the first the original audit had six issues, six findings.

Uh there were four issues cleared with the first follow-up.

Uh, there were no issues cleared on this follow-up, so there still remains two issues outstanding.

Um the the issue types of issues or out what types of issues did you find?

Uh the the two that are outstanding is that um deposits are not always recorded timely in the financial system.

Uh in the original audit, we identified issues with the timing when deposits were not processed by the tax collector's office um because payments were sent directly to the treasury division.

Uh out of 643 deposits tested, uh 392 uh were recorded in the city's financial system over 15 days from the date the payments were deposited at the time.

What's the total dollar volume involved here?

Do you know?

Um I don't know the total dollar value volume.

Uh I do know that um it says we were unable to confirm if 45 out of 62 deposits tested totaled 478,000 dollars, which were recorded which had been recorded in the cities.

Where would where would this money have originated?

These are electronics.

These are electronic into the treasury.

Okay, so where who who would who was making the payment of the is I just I mean I'm using this new device uh that had they've taken out all the parking meters, and I walk up and I I have the app and I just and it knows where I am based on GPS and the little uh number comes up and I press it and then I hit Apple Pay and off it goes.

Where does that money go once I send it to Apple Pay?

Does it go directly to the tax collector?

Or does it go to DIA who has responsibility for downtown parking?

That's a good question.

I don't know.

Uh having so anyway, we have 400 and something thousand dollars.

Um that that's that was finding one that was uh that was still outstanding.

The supplemental finding was uh user accounts of terminated employees not deactivated.

Uh we found a total of 331 user accounts belong to terminated employees were still active in the system uh per the cities and terror and information and technology division.

The only way to log into the system is through a single sign-on by using a valid active uh directory account per ITD upon termination, these employees' accounts were disabled in the active directory by the ITT security team.

We go on to say that even though terminate employees were removed from the active directory, these employees could be rehired in their single sign on restored, which could unintentionally grant access to systems that rehired employees may not need.

So the ITD is saying, well, we disabled their uh sign on, we're saying okay.

Well, if they were rehired and they have the same sign on, they could have access, they were different department, they could still have access to this.

And so um uh they agreed and they they're gonna uh look at trying to find a reconciliation process to um uh to ensure that user accounts are adequately trued up.

Didn't you report to the true commission on this same thing about three years ago?

I remember something about user IDs and I've reported uh work and I've reported this in many audits.

Um that is gonna say this sounds awfully asia vu all over again.

Yes, this was um this was in um many many audits.

Uh see here might have an answer to your question.

So our last audit is 902.

Uh yes, 902 uh and uh this is a supervisor elections audit.

Um we do this audit uh pursuant to uh section 102.118 of the municipal code, which requires us to audit uh const each of the constitutional officers at least once every five years.

So this is why we conducted this audit to meet that requirement.

Uh also as part of our testing on the supervisor elections audit, we uh we also performed a follow-up review on the previous audit that was done in uh February of 2021.

Um determine whether corrective action had been taken in response to our findings to that audit.

Um what we found uh well, I'll say this of the first uh for the follow-up review from report number 841.

We found that all the all the issues were cleared for that.

What we found in this audit, uh we what we did was we we the focus of our audit was uh payments to polling on pail polling locations uh for the use of polling location facilities for early voting and on election day during calendar year 2024.

Um we found that while payments made to polling locations were overall accurate and timely, we found there was a lack of proper support for the payments due to significant dollar amount of the payments not having an executed rental agreement or there not being in an amount stated in the executed rental agreement.

Um we found uh specific issues.

We found a lack of written policies and procedures related to the selection and contracting and payments to polling locations.

Uh the supervisor elections did not have a rental agreement on file for or the rent amount was not specified for 14 out of 376 non-city owned polling locations.

Uh there were no agreements for city-owned polling locations, and even though there's no payments for that, it's important for scheduling and things like that.

Um of the 158,000 in payments to polling location, 43,598 51 was not supported by an agreement.

Um that 41,600 were for uh sites for early voting.

Uh there were issues with 28 locations that were not paid accurately pay per their agreement.

Um there were 27 locations, which there was 7,425 in overpayments due to payments not being processed, and then there was 125 in an overpayment, and that was due to a location switch.

Um and then that kind of is a highlight of the things that we found at the supervisor for elections.

So my question is a real estate guy is how are you able to use a facility without a written agreement?

So the supervisor elections theoretically is required by state statute to have a written agreement to utilize a facility that is not owned by in this case the the city of Jacksonville.

Is that a statutory requirement or a requirement of city ordinance?

Um you want to make a note of this and reach out to uh the supervisor's office and ask them to answer these questions, and you can report back in the future, or you can report it to Colleen and she can send it out to us.

So it's basically is it a state statute or local?

If they didn't have one, are are they required to have one?

And if they are required to have one, then why didn't they have one?

And what is the source of the requirement?

Is it state statute or city ordinance?

And 40, I mean, yeah, it's 43,598 dollars in a 2.2 billion dollar budget.

It is statistically insignificant, but it's still 50,000 44,000 dollars.

And so there was no agreement to back up that number, and if we had agreements, what if that number should have been 143,000?

I will have to um find out and get back with you as to the requirement for an agreement.

Then I see there were issues with 28 locations that were not paid accurately per their agreement.

$7,425 in underpayments due to payments not being processed.

And so I have a question.

Why the delay?

And then it says in addition to the 27 locations not paid.

Then my last and then it says a payment was processed from the incorrect budget account.

And then my comment is do we not have a policies and procedures?

Or and is it required by state statute or city ordinance?

This one.

Okay.

Any questions?

Follow up questions on that.

Yes.

Yep.

Mr.

Mass.

Good evening.

Through the chair to the council auditor.

What is the date on this audit?

Do you um you have it there?

Uh we look at when it was released or the time period that we looked at.

Time period it was conducted.

Um through um 2024.

Um did the new when did the new supervisor take office?

July 1st, 2023.

23.

Okay.

So the what month was this in 24?

Do you know?

We the focus of our audit was payments um for uh voting on an election day during calendar year 2024.

Okay, thank you.

Plus, in this audit, you did a follow-up component to a pre a previous audit, correct?

That's correct, and all all of the items in the were were cleared from the previous audit.

Yes.

Well, as a taxpayer, I can only say that I'm I'm relieved to know that every element in city government seems to be functioning improperly.

At least they're all consistent, right?

We're consistently incompetent.

We're gonna cover everything.

All right.

That concludes my report.

Thank you very much.

All right, we're gonna move on to public comments.

Public comments are to be directed at items on the agenda.

Mr.

Nooney, if you have comments to make about the information delivered by Mr.

Parks or relative to these reports presented by Mr.

Carter, you are welcome to comment.

Otherwise, I will rule you out of order.

Understood.

All right.

I am John J.

Noone.

Jacksonville City Council Resolution 2023 0819.

That is not on the Mr.

Nuny, that is not on the agenda.

Uh well, I'm introducing myself.

You know I know that, but what relevance that or city ordinance have to do with who you are?

Well, uh it has a lot to do with it.

No, it doesn't.

Yes, it does.

You know, uh now I'm in City Council.

That's CARICO, CPAC three, you know, school board district three, Cindy Pearson.

Now, you know, ethics is gone in Duval County, Jacksonville.

Mr.

Ninning, what it that is not on the agenda.

We are here to have comments.

Okay, well, I'm setting it up agenda.

Okay, well, yeah, well, PSG.

You know, I'd be happy to hear your comments.

That's right.

Public service grant process.

Yeah.

Please continue.

PSG, you know, it's that's Pottsburg Supergrant.

No, it's not Pottsburg super fluttered.

Yes, it is.

You know, uh you you've got all you know, all these different Mr.

Nooning.

Okay, you know, I hope uh please OGC or please sit down.

OGC Please sit down.

Please sit down.

You are welcome to talk about the items that are before this body.

You're welcome to speak.

You are welcome to speak to the true commission about items on our agenda.

Well, I'm trying to.

Whoa.

You are welcome to speak to this body on any matter coming before the look.

You're taking up my time on that.

I'm not taking I'm willing to happy to give you three minutes if you have the ability to deliver a coherent message regarding the items on the agenda.

You know, you crushed me on the last one, you know, like with this public comment thing, you know, with Wendy Kahn, you know, that was uh CIP.

You know, our capital improvement projects.

All right, and please have a seat.

Thank you very much.

But please, I don't mind you making presentations.

Okay, please.

No, listen, listen to me, please.

Speak to the matters before the body.

Present your opinions on the matters that are on our agenda.

Public service.

I specifically request Colleen to send you our agenda so you know what's on the agenda.

You're the only person in the city of Jacksonville who gets their own personal copy of the agenda.

May I may I interrupt a minute?

May I interrupt?

Yes.

Do we still have a quorum?

Yes.

Uh not I mean, not so uh hopefully I won't make the chair upset, but what I like to do, this this rule was recently made.

Uh uh.

And look, I've uh for as far as even Mr.

Mooney gooney.

I don't know why I called it Mooney the last two days.

I've I've heard some of the same stuff a hundred times.

However, I said it back in January that I think we should have public comment.

I don't care what they talk about.

And every entity that I go to, there's public comment.

Uh we had it at CPAC last night.

Uh I heard uh whatever it is Mr.

Nooney talked about.

Uh I'd I and the time that we spend arguing with him telling sit down instead of three minutes, we're at five minutes now.

Now I also believe that if we have 45 people out there, but we can't give them three minutes.

We may give them 30 seconds.

We know we know how it is at City Council.

They give you, I believe it's 90 minutes.

If there's 90 people, you get a minute.

If there's 45 people, you get two minutes, right?

You might get I've got 30 seconds before, I've got three minutes before.

And and and I'm not sure if this is the proper time to do it.

But with that said, I'd like to make a motion that we change it and go back to give them public comment.

Now we can set a time.

Let's call it two minutes.

For whatever reason they want to talk and get it over with because they are the public and they are coming at me and and quite frankly get it over with.

Uh so my motion is that we resume back public comment uh to whatever they want to speak about.

Uh and we and and and if we'd like to set a time for that, we can do that two minutes instead of three minutes.

Let's call it two minutes.

I'm happy to address your comments uh so I would hold on.

So I'm making a motion that we allow the public comment to go back and set it for two minutes.

That will require an amendment to the bylaws in order to amend the bylaws.

We have to have 30 days to review the amendment.

You are happy to, I'm more than happy to accept your amendment to the bylaws, but we have to follow the bylaws.

If you want to submit such an amendment, submit it, and then we will consider it under the uh rules.

Do I need to uh do I just sit on uh submit an amendment to you, Colin?

I'll do that.

I'll send you one to amend the bylaws.

The motion and the second are on the record, so at the following meeting, you can take a vote on that.

Okay, but we will need a written text of what you're hoping to put in the case.

Is that correct, Colleen?

Um I would have to be in the minutes.

Right?

It'll be in the minutes.

It'll be accurately um depicted in the minutes.

So when they get the minutes next and in a month, it'll be in the it would the the verbiage will be in those minutes.

So to restate your motion, your desire is that we amend our bylaws to allow public comments on any subject whatsoever up to two minutes.

Yes, is that adequate?

That was adequate.

Now, also now, yes, that is the comment.

That is the thing.

Now, again, if we all of a sudden show up in two months and there's 50 people out there, then you know we we'll have a right to lower it down to 15 seconds.

Just add flexibility to the end of your statement.

Yeah, flexibility.

And again, do you have any thing on public service grants at all?

Yes, so I heard Kids Hope Alliance, and first of all, I want to thank Chairman Barr.

Thank you.

And last night, you know, at the CPAC meeting, you know, uh Mr.

Nunia, and uh uh hold on, let me stop you there.

Uh I made a motion that was taken, and we're gonna change it, but right now is not changed, so don't talk about CPAC last night.

Uh oh okay, stick to what the chairman what it is, and that is if it's not strictly what the bylaws say now, then I too would ask you to have a seat and let's wait until next month and see if it passes.

That way, everything's legit.

All right.

Well, public service grants mean does kids hope alliance fall under public service grants?

No.

Okay.

They they have a con they they contract directly with Kids Hope Alliance.

I'm sorry, Kids Hope Alliance contracts directly with various service providers.

I will allow you the added the latitude to express your opinion on that process.

Would you like to speak to the process of the Kids Hope Alliance contracting with providers of services?

Yes or no?

Yes.

Okay.

You have three minutes.

All right.

Well Roger Belcher.

Um, kids Hope Alliance.

Um, you know, there's yeah, well, the boys and there's a whole I I guess list of beneficiaries that that use kids hope alliance.

And so, you know, I guess the question you're wanting me to address is how the funds are directed or to dispersed.

What you whatever you want to talk about relevant to Kids Hope Alliance, contracting with service providers is germane to the topic of discussion.

You are welcome to present for three minutes your comments on that topic.

Yeah, and that and and of course, with me, it's how I'm tying it in to like Pottsburg Creek or waterway issues, in that they would be Kids Hope Alliance has nothing to do with waterways.

Well, I would beg to differ.

Okay, how well how does it relate?

Well well, how how about like you take a river keeper thing, you know.

If they you know, do they just fund the river keeper?

No, but but do they use money to do programming or anything with through that?

I don't know.

Not to my knowledge.

Okay, well, you know, I'm not you know, going or doing an audit per se, like in depth on that one, but um uh all right.

Oh, one more, okay.

Well, gosh, well, I definitely don't want um all right.

Well kids hope, you know, I've been going to their meetings.

What are your thoughts on the Kids Hope Alliance?

I'd be glad to hear your comments.

Oh, all right.

Well, again, the reason I go to them is to show the benefit of waterway access of how it not only helps youth but seniors.

You know, you know, this FWC I have, it's a playoff the official I know wildlife commission, but okay, and I get that gavel ready.

I know I just diverted on that one.

But but with the Kids Hope Alliance, you you know, that's really why I I just go because they would directly benefit, you know, from access on our waterways, and not only just but everybody would.

And so when you talk about grants and compliance, I feel like I can just tie that in to every age group council on elder affairs, mayor's disability council.

You know, there's a I mean you go right down the list, JEA, JTA.

How many more?

30.

30.

Well, got you know what?

I'll I you know what I almost want to just give you almost like a new shirt update, you know.

Um but um got some and actually I think we'll be coming out with some hats too.

But uh we're not interested in here, but all right.

Well, but but but let's not talking, we're not here to discuss the addition of new items to your line of sartorial splendor.

Thank you very much for your comments.

Well, uh thank you for listening.

Thank you.

Previous business.

All right.

We didn't have a committee report per se.

Uh I have no comments to make under new business discussion regarding all matters.

Would you like to take up the issue of amending the bylaws at this point for additional amplification?

And I'm happy to have us to make a motion.

You already we have a motion, we have a second.

Well, I'm not sure there's anything else we need to talk about until next month.

Is there anything else you'd like to talk about under new business?

No, sorry, I'm good.

Ms.

McHugh.

May I say something?

So Mr.

Carter and I were just reading through the bylaws, and Article 10 states that if you want to amend the bylaws, you need to present in writing at this meeting and then it be voted on at the next meeting.

So we're just gonna write it down.

That's fine on this piece of paper and have Mr.

Barr sign it before this meeting is over.

But just for clarity to Commissioner Barr, is you your intent to just have public comment for a period of time with no restrictions on what they are allowed to speak about?

That is correct.

It's like the other entities uh allow.

Yes.

Thank you.

I would I would my understanding was that he wanted to add a period of public comment for up to two minutes per speaker to address the true commission on any matter of concern.

Is that fair statement?

Two minutes of plenty.

Uh up to two minutes per person.

Yeah.

Well, if we have 10 people, we would have to we would have to shrink it down.

Well, why don't you add some 15 minutes?

Well, add add something like the street.

Flexibility uh depending on the amount of people up to the chair.

Again, if 50 people show up, we can't do two minutes.

That's why I say time period of 10, 15, 20 minutes.

But as it is now in the four years I've been, there's only been one public comment, or that's mr.

Mr.

Nuty.

We've had we've actually had three.

Uh well, three in four and a half years.

So anyway, that's that's it.

All right.

Commissioner to comments, Ms.

Oglesby.

Yes.

I understand that I guess what I want to find out, what is the bottom line when we review the grants and you did and you um compare it to or route it to whichever councilman, council person it is.

What is the bottom line that you want to get to?

Once you find out which councilperson it is, is their um nonprofit organization.

What are you gonna do with that information?

What do you want to do with that information?

Um anybody here, I'll I'll answer on my behalf.

Um it was Mr.

Lewis recommended the committee to do that, and quite frankly, I just want to make sure that none of us are targeting any particular person for something.

Uh that that's really the the deal with me.

I mean, we can look at and and I agree.

Let's look at see what it is.

Uh but what I fear in light of today's uh temperature here in Jacksonville, uh, that I don't want to see this commission targeting Mr.

Tyson here, right?

If we want to look at all of our stuff, then I'm good with that.

And that's what I want to see.

Okay.

But to answer your question, I'm not sure exactly what the formation of the committee was.

The I don't I don't know what the ultimate outcome of it I don't know, and I thought that we were gonna meet as a committee.

I didn't know that one committee person was gonna go off and request this.

I thought that we were going to meet as a committee and do that, which I thought is what we're supposed to do.

Uh so you know I was kind of surprised today.

Okay.

That's where I stand on that.

Well, because I heard uh Commissioner Day indicated that for the most part everyone gets their organization approved.

So at the end of the day, what do you want this committee to do if that is the case?

And we find that they all have their organization approved for grants.

What do you expect from us from that point?

Is there anything other than just to know what you already suspect?

Do we really know what the bottom line purpose of the committee was for, other than just curiosity?

His initial inquiry was about the sampling methodology.

Then uh I think he would have to go back and look at the the recording.

Uh I I read I looked at the recording uh of the last month of the last meeting to make sure I understood what it was he was seeking, and that's why the special committee was created.

I looked at the recording of the last month of the last meeting to make sure I understood what it was he was seeking, and that's why the special committee was created.

And I don't think he had any particular motivation.

My recollection is that he wanted to see if there was a correlation between the entities that they found issues with in the audit and affiliations with those entities to council members.

Okay.

So I I mean, I guess the crux we've we have two minutes and I'm I'll shut up.

Any additional comments from commissioners?

I'd love to hear more about Jack Sport.

Just feature reference.

Yeah.

So if you got any audits on that, let me know.

That's it.

So uh I I think Yes, sir.

The only thing in relation to what she was asking, I think one of the issues might be, or one of the thought processes might be are any of these um people involved, councilman involved involved.

Are they are they um having any dollar amount in other words are they in a position in the organization where there's a salary involved or there's some kind of uh stipend involved in traffic?

I mean, would they go on for I think that's probably what everybody wants to know is hey, are they getting is they all getting this stuff done so they get some money out of it or they get some I think that's the issue?

I I don't think there's any evidence that the grant money that's going to the organizations is used by the organization to pay the council member.

I've never seen any evidence of that.

Uh but I think that's the underlying concern that the public has.

And um I you know, the only way to solve it would be to say if you're a member of the Jacksonville City Council and you are employed by nonprofit, your nonprofit shall not be eligible to receive city funding during your tender on the city council.

That would eliminate it completely.

Is it harsh?

Is it capricious?

Could be.

You could make many arguments.

And and it may have he may hurt the particular nonprofit of that period of time.

I mean, there are many things to consider.

Really damaging to a nonprofit.

All right, without having any further comments meet.