I got them.

Good afternoon and welcome to our rules, City of Jacksonville Rules Committee.

Today is Monday, May 4th.

Let the time reflect that it is 2 p.m.

And we will start with introductions to our left.

Good afternoon, Garrett Dennis Administration.

Colleen Hamsey, Council Research.

Carla Shell, Office of General Counsel.

Krista Carriher, Council Auditor's Office.

Terrence Freeman at large group one.

Ron Salem, group two at large.

Mike Gay, District Two.

Michael Boylan, District Six.

Good afternoon, Rory Diamond, District 13.

The beach is just visiting.

Which bill are you here visiting for?

Is it would that be uh 268?

Okay, thank you.

All right, we'll go through kind of the lay of the land and then we'll get everything going.

We'll get our appointees out of here.

Um first items that we'll take up will be uh page four item seven be the appointment of Kim Black.

The next item will be page four, item eight, uh 2026 0244.

That is the appointment of Miss Martha Moore.

Um, and the first one is 2026 0241.

The next one is on page nine, item 15, 26, 2026 0277, appointment of um this looks like is it Philippe uh Peterson uh for the position of council auditor?

Um we're gonna have uh we're gonna I'm sorry, Philip.

We're gonna have a little curveball thrown here.

We're gonna at move I'm moving item seven up, uh page seven, item 21.

That is 2026 0265.

Uh that'll be taken up after Mr.

Peterson's appointment.

Uh then we'll have page I 6, item 10, 2026 0260.

Um that's councilman Johnson's bill that was heard in neighborhoods.

He won't be here, but I'm the only new one, and I was at neighborhood today for to hear the discussion.

And then the next item will be nine page nine, item 13, 2026, 0268, um, Councilman Salem's bill, and then the rest of the agenda will go as planned.

Um item one, 2024, 26627 will be deferred.

Um I do have some questions about the deferrals.

I think it's a it's a 24 month rule, uh, and then they roll off.

Is that is that still correct?

Okay.

Um I'm very curious.

I know that bill might need two-thirds votes, uh, Councilman Diamond, but I'm very curious in a bill like this moving forward.

Um I do believe that if we're gonna live in a political climate where the administration is gonna pick and choose when they want to execute, then whatever powers we have as a body, uh we must and we may have to start leveraging them.

And I know that's gonna take 13 votes, but um we're gonna continue to see how they respond to bills that we pass and if they're willing to execute.

Um item two, 2024, 0966 will be deferred.

Item three, 2025 0775 will be deferred.

The request of Councilman Carlucci.

Item 4, 2026, 192 is deferred, 2026, 023, 203 is deferred.

Uh 2026 0227 is deferred.

Request for diamond.

Um action item will be 20 item seven, item eight will be an action item.

We've already said that.

Item nine is gonna be an action item, item 10, 2022 0260 is an action item, 11's an action item, 12's an action item, 13 is amend move, 14's an action item, 15's action item, 16's an amendment move, uh, and then the following bills will be seconded.

2026 0317, 2026, 0318, 2026, 0319, uh 0330, 0327, 0335, 0336, 0337, 0338, 0339, 0340, 0341, 0342.

I'm on item 30, 0343, 2131 is 0344, 0346, 0347, 0348, item 35 will be an action item.

That's 2026, 0349.

Uh the following again will be seconded 2026 0350 0351 0352 0355 0356 0357 0358 0359 0360 item 45 will be in the next item action item up.

That's 2026 0361.

And then the last three are all seconded 0362, 0363, and 0364.

Um with that being said, are there any public comments?

Uh it looks like Francis is there there it is thank you Miss Francis You don't mind giving us your name your address and of course my name is Maya Francis My address is on file.

I just wanted to share my support for the nomination of Miss Kim Black.

I have the pleasure of serving alongside of her for a volunteer role, I would add within the community.

We are residents of the East Side.

Um the organization is historic Eastside Resident Alliance, where we both engage in our civic duty of just supporting our neighbors, ensuring that uh all the resources are available for them to thrive.

We work in collaboration with our neighbors.

Um, so I just wanted to speak to her being a new resident, myself as well, but already having that heart to ensure that the community um has everything that they need to be able to thrive.

So I wanted to just share that um here with you all today, and again, really hoping for nothing but the best with this nomination for her.

I support her completely as a resident and a neighbor.

Uh thank you so much.

Uh next we have Miss Suzanne Pickett.

Good morning, everyone.

My name is Suzanne Pickett.

My address is on file.

I am the president and CO of Historic East Side Community Development Corporation.

I have served the East Side for since 2013, and I've answered the call to build the organization capable of preserving, protecting, and enduring the growth of the beginning of the Eastside neighborhood.

I am here in support of Kim Black for the East Side Grants Committee.

I ask that as you stand before us, I thank you for your commitment to this work.

We have a group of members that have worked tirelessly for years to get to this place.

I ask this committee and all the city council committees that as you stand before us and you hear opposition to this work that you ask the question of those opposing what is your affiliation to the East Side.

Are you a community member?

Are you a resident?

Do you live there?

Do you work there?

This work is extremely important.

We are moving forward in Eastside as you see development happening all around us.

This CBA committee has done a great job of helping us so that we are not behind left behind, but as we are a complement to all the development that's happening with us, so again, I ask you as you receive letters as you stand there and hear people degrade people that come before you ask them those questions about their affiliation to this community.

Thank you.

And so that takes us now to our agenda.

Uh we'll start off with the appointments.

Uh the first one can be found on page four.

Item seven is 2026-0241 on entertainer motion.

Uh we got a motion and a second on the bill.

Is Miss Black here.

Thank you so much for coming down.

If you don't mind uh giving us your name, your address, and just sharing a little bit about um why you're choosing to serve on the East Side Grants Commission.

I'm Kim Black.

I live at 1206 Van Buren Street.

Um, I'm part of a multi-generational household fact that I'm very proud of because we believe that it takes a village.

My family and I made the deliberate decision, an intentional choice to build and live on the east side of Jacksonville and Campbell's addition.

My oldest daughter, Dr.

Kirsten Pugh was a part, was uh in the first cohort for Project Boots, and as a result of that, closed on our family home in June of 2024.

My family's safety, wealth, future is tied directly to what happens out east for the next two to three decades.

As a native of Jacksonville and a retired registered nurse for 26 years and counting, I'm still counting because I do maintain my Florida and active unencumbered Florida nursing license.

Um transitioning from bedside nursing to administrative nursing, ultimately to leadership.

I bring to the table a systems perspective that would be grounded in accountability, um, resource management and measured outcomes.

I would see my purpose at the table to help ensure that the community, rather, my community um sees tangible and sustainable results from the community benefits agreement.

Uh thank you.

Uh is there anyone in the queue with any questions for Ms.

Black?

Councilmember Gay, you're recognized.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh, through the chair to Ms.

Black, and uh I appreciate your willingness to serve here and to be consistent with all the other uh ones that's come before us.

My my only question of charge to you is will you commit to listening to the community, the voice of the people, uh, and hearing what their desires and needs are, and that that that's that's all I'm would ask, and uh and just ask if you would uh be willing to commit to that.

Uh yes, Councilmember Gay, I strongly believe in a resident-centered approach.

All right, thank you.

Uh thank you.

Let the record reflect that uh council member Joe Carlucci's joined us as well as the Council President uh Kevin Carico, and he's up in the queue, Councilman Carico, Mr.

President and Senior Uh Matt Carlucci, I'm so sorry, is here as well.

Uh Councilman Keriko, you recognize.

Sorry, you just have to turn it on.

Uh through the chair, thank you for calling on me.

No question specifically.

I I support you on this CBA.

Your resume was in my stack of uh people to consider to move forward to this board and the important work, and uh the mayor beat me to it.

So uh I don't think you'll have any problems here um with this committee, but I'll just um add my support and uh wish you good luck and doing the right thing for the CBA.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh thank you.

Seeing no one else in the queue, thank you so much for putting yourself forward.

Um you're welcome to have a seat.

Um it's been moved and properly seconded.

Is there anyone else in the queue?

Please open the ballot and record your vote.

Seven yes, zero nays.

By your actions, you've approved 2026 0241.

Um and I and it's not in my notes here, but you all will be recognized on the council night um at the conclusion of the vote.

Uh so if you can come next Tuesday, that would be great.

Uh Councilmember Joe Carlucci, Councilmember Matt Carlucci, you're both here.

Is there a particular bill that either one of you are here for?

We're because I can't speak for my boy.

I'm just here for the overall ambience of this rules.

We're glad to have you here.

I I don't get a chance to go anywhere else.

Um and take it all in.

We we're glad you're here.

Go Celtics, right?

All right.

Page four item eight brings up our next action item 2026 0244.

I entertain a motion.

Got a motion and a second on the bill.

Is Ms.

Martha Moore?

Hey, you're already up.

If you don't mind sharing your name, address, and it's a brief summary of who you are and what you do.

All right, Martha Moore, 225 Water Street, suite 1510, Jacksonville.

I'm a long-time transportation and traffic engineer here in the city.

I'm a native of Jacksonville.

I live on the north side on Black Hammock Island.

And I feel that my engineering um expertise and years of experience as well as my understanding of the city are going to be very beneficial to the mobility working group.

And I'll just take any questions you may have.

Well, thank you so much.

Bringing us back to the body.

Are there any questions for Ms.

Moore?

Uh seeing none, Miss Moore, thank you so much for putting yourself forward.

It's been moved and properly seconded.

Please open the ballot and record your vote.

Seven yay, zero nays.

By your actions, you've approved 2026 0244.

That takes us to item page nine, item 15.

2026 0277.

This is the appointment of Philip Peterson position of city auditor.

Got a motion and a second on it, Mr.

Peterson.

Thank you.

Glad to see you up there, please.

Uh you got three minutes, just tell us whatever you would like to tell us.

Surely a different view down here.

Um Philip Peterson, I've been working for the city for 21 years now, all within the council auditors office.

Um, and just look forward to serving you in this new role.

Uh thank you so much for that.

We the queues lighting up.

I'm gonna start off with the committee members first.

Councilmember Gate, you're recognized.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

I'd like to be added as a co-sponsor.

Uh Councilmember Boylan, you recognize.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh Sam for me, please.

Add me as a co-sponsor.

Councilmember Amaro, you recognize.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um, I'd like to be added as well.

Uh through the chair to uh uh Ms.

Peterson, Mr.

Peterson, what do you think is going to be the biggest challenge facing you should you go through this process and be approved?

Uh through the chair to council member.

Um I've worked for Miss Taylor for um six years directly underneath her, and then for the 15 years prior, she has been in a phenomenal leader in our office.

So if I can fill the shoes that she has held, I think I will be very successful.

Um we have always had a slightly difficult time in um filling positions in our office.

Um more success in that since we've raised the starting salary in recent years.

Um but I think just competing with the private sector is uh proven to be very difficult in getting people uh to want to interview with our office once they interview.

I think they realize the value that we provide to the city.

Um so that's probably the area, but it's uh nothing that we haven't experienced in my 21 years here with the city.

Thank you.

Uh Councilmember White, you recognize.

Yes, sir.

Please add me as a co-sponsor also, please.

Thank you.

Councilmember Salem, past president, you recognize.

Thank you, Chair.

I want to be a co-sponsor as well, but when you face issues like like this, sometimes it's good to go outside and look for the best person regionally, nationally, but sometimes you've got the best person that I think we all agree right there in house.

And I think this is a situation where it's very clear to promote within with the experience that Philip has, and I'm excited for the his opportunity.

Thank you.

All right, thank you.

And now we move to our non-committee members, Councilmember Diamond, you recognize.

Thank you.

I was just lucky I got to be here.

This doesn't go to any committee I'm on, so I want to be out as a co-sponsor, and I would just like to make sure everybody has heard that when we had Ken, and now we have Lil Ken.

And so I I just I just want this nickname to continue on the record and posterity forever.

Councilmember Matt Carlucci, you're recognized.

Um the council auditor has been to me over my many years a uh the most important uh office.

Actually, in my opinion, it's the whole city of Jacksonville.

Um to get a little humor out of the way, I guess.

You got a big pair of high heels to fill.

Uh Phil.

But I um I have known Bob Johnson since I was probably 12, 13 years old, and I have known so many council auditors and worked with so many council auditors.

And uh this is the first break from the Bob Johnson brainstem.

Uh in other words, uh, he's the last of those that are succeeded from being hired by Bob.

Now there's another council auditor, maybe behind Phil that was hired by Bob.

Bob Johnson's legacy of excellence, of fairness, of thoroughness, of being able to explain and to command respect, has gone from every council auditor that has succeeded him after his retirement.

And I've known every one of them in a very close personal way.

And when I uh had lunch with Bob a couple of weeks ago, I mentioned to him Phil Peterson, and he said that he's had interaction with Phil, and he has all the hundred percent confidence in Phil to do the job.

And I had told Bob I called Phil a couple of days before he and I went to lunch, and I told Phil, congratulations, and that uh he was definitely Bob Johnson worthy, and that is a hell of a good rec uh uh compliment.

So we're not gonna skip a beat with you, but it's because that Bob Johnson legacy of excellence of confidence of credibility has just gone from one auditor to the next to the next to the next to the next, and now it's with you.

And so you got a big job to fill and to pass on to whoever succeeds you, and I have no doubt in my mind that you will do that.

You think you will do that?

Yes, sir.

I know you will too.

And I congratulate you and thank you for the years that you have worked with me on difficult subjects, even when I went down in flames.

But I always knew if I went down in flames, if I was on the auditor side, I was right.

And it wasn't a side that y'all were taking policy on.

It was it was a side of the right numbers.

Numbers don't lie.

And uh thank you for everything you've done up to this point, and I look forward to working with you.

And I don't know if Kim is in here or not, but we sure are going to miss her.

But we we wish her the very best.

Sorry if I took too much time.

Uh but um I just had to say what I have to say.

I got such a long history with their office.

Uh thank you, Phil.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Carlucci.

That's what committees for.

There's no clock here, and we're not up against anything.

And Ms.

Ms.

Kim is right behind here.

Uh Mr.

Till, right down the front row to your right.

That's uh you're looking for.

Um, no one else is in the queue, so I'll just finish with this.

One, um, Philip, thank Mr.

Peterson.

Thank you so much uh for being willing to stick around after all the chaos and craziness you've seen over the years.

Um still willing to serve.

I think and I view our auditors as the key examples of umpires.

You call balls and strikes.

I've never seen nor heard of any situation where the even the optics leaned that you were trying to put your thumb on the scale one way or the other.

Um I wish I could say that about other areas, but I can't all the time.

Maybe sometimes because of my nativity and understanding all of the rules.

Uh but I always have this philosophy.

If you run it through your attorneys, you run it through the auditors, and you run it through ethics, you got a great chance of having a good bill come out.

Um and so thank you for continuing it.

Um, Miss Taylor, we're gonna miss you.

Um we're gonna miss that that humble, quiet, calm spirit.

Um, but it's being replaced now by another humble individual.

And and thank you so much for answering the calling in your life and serving our city.

With that being said, let's please it's been moved and properly seconded.

Please open the ballot and record your vote.

And um please add me as a co-sponsor.

Go ahead and seven yes, zero nays.

By your actions, you've approved 2026 027.

Congratulations, Mr.

Peterson.

Um, next will be on page seven.

Uh item that can't be right.

It's item 21.

So let's see here.

No, page seven item 11, not 21.

Page 7, item 11.

It's uh neighborhoods amendment 2026 0265.

We got a motion and a second on the neighborhood's amendment.

Can we please have that amendment explained?

Yes, through the chair to the committee.

The neighborhoods amendment will extend the term of the contract to September 30th, 2028, and require reporting on the status of the enrollees one year after payment by the city.

Uh will add a provision that any enrollee who is not still in the program would result in a repayment to the city of 2500 um per enrollee.

Uh thank you.

Seeing no one in the queue, all in favor of the amendment, say aye.

Those opposed have the same right.

The amendment carries.

Got a motion and a second on the bill as amended.

Any discussion.

All right, seeing none, I do have a few things that I want to make sure of.

We have Mr.

Dennis sitting uh here today.

Um this morning, I asked the uh liaison, Mr.

Delaney.

His initial response was he didn't know and he'd get back with us, and then he followed back up.

And then I believe Councilmember Gay asked that by rules we were to hear something.

Um so where is the administration um from your perspective, Mr.

Dennis?

We have a couple representatives in the stand out in the crowd today from the apprenticeship program on this bill.

Uh through the chair to the committee, uh the administration is in support uh of this bill.

Um, as you know that it's uh policy decision, and uh once you all approve it, uh we will do our uh duty in making sure that um these agencies uh receive the appropriations that you all have appropriated.

And thank and thank you for that.

And for those who don't know, the reason why I asked that question for those in the crowd is is we had last session of 200,000 JSAB, Jacksonville Small Emerging Business Bill go through that the administration on record said that they did not approve of, and it did not align with the mayor's, and you can go pull the record archives, it did not align with the mayor's initiatives.

However, if you look at the commercial or if or if you listen to WOKV this morning, that's what the mayor talked about.

They touted JSABs.

Well, apprenticeship programs is something that's important to this council as well, and we want to ensure we make policy, we do not force the execution.

That is on the administration's side.

So I'm moving forward.

Any bill that I file, I'm going to always ask on record.

Are they going to execute?

And so this is the second committee that they've said it.

So Mr.

Fowles, you've heard it.

I know I've talked to many small business owners, many of them from diverse backgrounds.

Uh, and they're very upset about the JSAP piece.

Uh, I think the JSAB advisory board has done a resolution as well.

So that is why I asked that question on this one.

I wanted you all to see that.

Um that being said, no one else in the queue, please open the ballot and record your vote.

Seven Yay, zero and by your actions you've approved 2026 0265 as amended.

Uh next item is page six, item 10.

That's doesn't seem right to me.

Let's see here.

2026 0260.

Got a motion and second on the bill.

Any discussion?

Seeing none, open the ballot and record your vote.

Six YA zero and a actions, you approve of 2026 0260.

Uh this now takes us to Councilmember Salem's bill, page nine.

Item 13, 2026 0268 on the amendment.

That is first a motion and second on the amendment.

Can someone please explain the amendment?

Through the chair to the committee, the amendment will remove the emergency language and correct some scribble's errors.

Seeing no one in the queue, all in favor of the amendment, say aye.

Those opposed have the same right.

The amendment carries.

Thank you, uh, Vice Chair.

I just wanted to take a few minutes and uh because there's been a lot of information that's gone out there, and I'm I'm really doing some of this for those council members that were not here in 2019.

I'm looking at a few of us that were, but there's a few here that were not.

Um back in the fall of 2019, the JEA sale was moving forward.

Um in November of 2019 at a TEU committee meeting that I will never forget.

Uh Kyle Billy, the council auditor at the time, the one prior to Ms.

Taylor, uh, presented the performance unit plan or bonus plan to that committee and demonstrated roughly the $600 million in bonuses that could go to the leadership of JEA if the uh if the sale occurred at a roughly what eventually would be 1.2 billion dollars.

The community was outraged throughout this process.

Um Nikki's passing out some documents for you, one of which that I wanted to bring to your attention, particularly with what's happened this morning is a letter from the Civic Council dated December 12th, 2019, where they are calling on the city council to get involved in this process.

And uh because it was moving forward, and and we were the legislative body as they reference here that could possibly um impact this process.

So I encourage you to take a look at that, particularly uh with what came out this morning.

In addition to that, I've passed out um some charter language from section 5.09, and I I do want to read this into the record.

The council or any duly appointed committee of the council may make investigations into the affairs of the consolidated government and the conduct of any department, office, or agency of the consolidated government, and for this purpose may subpoena witnesses administer oaths, take testimony, and require the production of evidence.

Very important to us.

And uh council president Carico initiate a special committee, and we are following those guidelines to the T, I should say.

And uh so I will continue with that.

So we have the ability to investigate, and we are conducting an investigation.

And I so with that, I wanted to go through the recent timeline on this particular issue.

This is not a sale of JEA by any means, but but uh let me go back recently to the February board meeting when uh uh board member Morales made a motion for a survey of some sort.

Um there was no second to that survey.

Uh I raised my hand later in that meeting to advocate if I would have been recognized or survey myself on a limited scale.

Um I was not recognized.

So the council president soon after that meeting initiated the special committee that uh that I am chairing.

Prior to me uh initiating that role, I met with the inspector general.

Um on the capacity issue, which has been discussed at length recently.

The capacity he did not have the the bandwidth to do the work for the capacity issue and ask for the council auditors to get engaged, and I have worked with uh Mr.

Facklert to get the council auditors the information that they need uh through Regina Ross over the last several weeks, spent considerable time with Mr.

Facler to ensure the council auditors because uh council auditors are not talking to Ms.

Ross directly.

Their questions are being submitted to Mr.

Fackl.

He brings the information back.

It's a bit cumbersome, but it is working, and they are making substantial progress in identifying the how far this capacity issue goes back and the dollars that arose.

I also asked him about the uh the cultural issues that are going on in JEA.

From that February board meeting, the board members insisted at that time that if employees had issues, they could go to the human resources, they could call the hotline, or they could call the inspector general.

Several employees did call the inspector general.

Inspector general is is is not responsible for those type of issues.

He's more financial uh issues within the city government.

So we took that upon ourselves to to investigate that.

Um soon thereafter, within three weeks, JEA then initiated uh uh uh an outside law firm to talk to employees about cultural issues within within JEA, and they are presently performing a survey uh of some sort that was previously scheduled.

That survey is going to all 2200 employees, and it's sort of a temperature check.

I have not seen the survey, but I I believe it's a typical survey that you would see in a business to assess how things are going, so to speak.

The survey referenced in this legislation is a very specific survey.

It will be administered to the managers and above that work within the JEA headquarters.

We have identified approximately 144 employees that meet that criteria, and they will be provided this survey.

There'll be issue questions regarding the race issue and whether there are racial issues within JEA that have come forward, particularly to Councilmember Pittman, uh, as well as we will get into other cultural issues.

Um this particular company that we are hiring will uh we've talked to several times.

Mr.

Thiel has been very helpful with that, and we will design those questions and get those give the employees an opportunity to respond to that survey on those particular issues in particular.

Um I think I will stop there, Mr.

Mr.

Vice Chair.

So that is the purpose of the survey.

One other point was it's not gonna uh there's no dollars attached to this particular survey at that that has been speculated.

Mr.

Teal will be using dollars already in his budget to pay for the survey, which is a little over $9,000.

And he is here, Councilmember Diamond is also here, who has been very involved in the special committee, and uh they can they can jump in if they feel uh it's appropriate, or the president for that matter.

Thank you very much.

Uh thank you.

Thank you.

Um Councilman Salem.

Uh we have one, two, three, four of the folks in the queue will start with uh the those on this committee.

Councilmember Mara, you recognize thank you, Mr.

Chair.

I uh uh selection link is a uh very well-versed company in this field of employment.

Um don't have a problem with them, don't have a problem with uh city council using its authority to spend the money.

Got a couple of questions about methodology.

Um the uh JEA is uh as just stated is conducting uh uh survey of its entire workforce, apparently, you know, close to its entire workforce.

This appears to be specifically focused on 144 employees.

And my question is why would former employees be participants of this survey first.

Secondly, how do you reconcile the results of this survey with what the JEA may be doing?

Um what is the real objective of us doing our own survey?

Uh so those are three questions uh for Mrs.

Salem if you can't answer.

Okay, good You recognize Councilman Salem.

Thank you.

Can we go through them one at a time?

Can you repeat the first one?

All right, so let's let's try to figure this out.

Um just to make sure we keep the quorum.

So uh councilmember Amar, if you want to just list them again at one, the first one and then you'll answer the.

My focus was methodology.

Um why former employees number one.

Can I answer that first?

Sure.

The former employees, uh, several former employees have reached out to Mr.

Teal or Ms.

Ross or even me, and I have committed that the former employees that are surveyed, that data will be separated from the active employees.

So they won't be mixed, um, so that we can give those employees, those ex-employees an opportunity to participate, but in no way, shape or form will it uh sway the data of the existing employees.

Uh thank you.

So that's the first question.

Second question is I want to make sure that we keep the quorum one from my own brain to kind of process everything.

So when you ask the question, Councilman saying I will recognize you because I want to process the question before you start it.

So can you still on methodology?

Okay.

Um the the size of the survey.

You Mr.

Salem stated JEA is doing 2200.

This work by selection link is 144.

How do you reconcile the two different results?

You want to answer?

Councilman Salem.

It is my feeling, and I respect the board and I respect the the board um management of our authorities.

What I see happening, we will hopefully get a substantial response, and we will, as a committee, we will take a look at those results, and then we we will provide it to the to the board of directors of JEA and allow them to assess it.

I believe that is their responsibility.

I I don't I'm not calling for anyone to any changes in management or anything like that.

I want to provide the board the information that I think they should have done at their February board meeting when they I think uh did not act as they should have and ignored the the motion of uh of uh board member morales.

Councilmember and the final question you may have just answered.

So is that the objective of this survey to uh harness glean information and then deliver to them?

That is correct.

Salem, you recognize yeah, I just want to make sure we don't get adversarial.

You're all you all both seem to be on the same page, but if this was adversarial, I don't want the crosstalk.

So I want to make sure.

Yeah, all right.

We're good.

I mean clearly it's gonna come back to Mr.

Teal, who who is coordinating the uh survey uh for the committee.

I'm uh and and I'm sure we'll look at it.

I'm assuming it will become a public record at some point, but we will provide that to the board of JEA and allow them to compare those results, particularly with their own survey, but ours will be much more focused on the cultural issues, potential racial issues that we've heard about within JEA.

I hope that answers your question.

Councilmember, you good?

All right, thank you.

Next will be Councilmember Boylan from the committee, and then we have Councilmember Matt Carlucci and then Councilmember Diamond in the queue afterwards.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

I appreciate the opportunity to speak uh on behalf of this.

I was well steeped in JEA back 19, 2019, 2020.

Uh focused many months, not singularly, but with many other committee members, council members, in the rewrite of Article 21.

Of JEA.

In fact, and I should note too that after months of deliberation, the I don't know how many was it, 14 sections, I don't know how many pages, 40-50 pages of the Article 21 was unanimously approved by the City Council.

Emphatically and stated in that article, and I quote for the record, JEA shall have full and independent authority to hire, transfer, promote, discipline, terminate, and evaluate employees engaged to provide to provide any and all of the utility services for which it is responsible.

This is another example of overreach.

I do understand and appreciate we have investigative authority.

We do on matters of policy, on matters of practice, but not on matters of personnel.

And for us to step into this, we all know how we're in here.

We this is just meant to be another example of redirection and putting attention where uh it doesn't belong.

And I'm I'm I'm disappointed to see that we've gone down this route.

Um it's easy to find a handful or so who's gonna be not happy with how things went or are going for them to use that yet as another example of um mismanagement.

I think is is uh unfortunate.

I can't support this today, not because of the money, not because it's because of the principle.

The idea that we have an authority that we put into place that we respect that collectively with Mr.

Dennis as part of that process.

We changed, put a referendum out there to change the appointment process.

So we as council members had a greater role in identifying those folks.

We raised the bar in Article 21 about the qualifications of those members of that board.

So we we've given them the authority to do this.

All we're gonna be doing now is questioning that authority.

If it happens here, where does it stop?

Where does it stop?

We know why this one's happening now.

We need to stop it right here and right now.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh, thank you, Councilman Boyle and Councilmember Macalucci, you recognize thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um I feel so strongly about this.

I'm gonna try to um I'm gonna try to stay even keeled about this.

Um I don't want to rub anybody the wrong way, but I'm gonna speak the truth as I know it from what I have researched and from my experience.

Uh what we're going through here is no 2019, it's just not.

That was uh a policy of whether we were going to sell JEA and privatize it or not.

That's not what this is, not at all.

Uh we have the JEA doing their own internal investigation, and bless you.

Um, and they're looking into their employees and into their environment.

Nobody has the biggest interest in getting a real grip on what's going on in their cultural environment and racist environment than the JEA does.

So they are determined to get that right, and in particular with the board members I have spoken to.

Um you've got the inspector general.

Inspector general, according to conversation he had would be 45 minutes minutes after the press conference that was held on the on the city hall steps, which always makes for a good background.

He didn't request that a special committee to be put together, and he said I could repeat him on that.

I asked him, sir, can I repeat you on that to the people to the council and to the press?

He said, sure.

That's what I told him.

All I need is the council auditors.

That's what he said.

Buy me a Bible, I'll put my left hand over it, and I'll put my right hand up in the air.

The state attorney is doing a lot of inspecting on this, and I have to tell you, I think she's doing more than what we think.

Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure she is.

And uh are doing.

Then if we feel that the city council needs to take a look at some of this, that's when we probably have more of a leg to stand on.

But we're interfering.

Whether you want to, I mean, we just are, and it's going to confuse matters.

And now we got this the state attorney general involved in it.

Um what we're doing isn't direct contrary, it's directly contrary to our city charter, which actually made it stronger.

Now the city charter is the city of Jacksonville's constitution that was formed for consolidated government.

These authorities were meant to be independent because prior to consolidation, too much politics was getting in the way of the waterworks and the electric works and all the different agencies.

It was getting involved in it, and that's why they that's why they indicted 11 public and or appointed officials between 1966 and 1967.

We need to stay out of it, let them do their job that is in their lane, and when they're all done, if we think something hasn't been done correctly, that's when we might step in for oversight.

I promise you, I understand the committee members of SIC are doing what they think is a good thing, but actually what they're doing is they're overstepping.

I want to make one other comment.

They may not think this, and I don't mean to be critical, but I have to call it the way I see it, because I have a duty to do that when I put my hand on the oath of office and on the Bible.

I came to those uh at least two of these committee meetings, never had a chance to speak.

I had to wait two hours, and finally I gave up because I have a life, and one of those lives is Stay Farm, my business, my livelihood as well, and so I left.

Okay.

I didn't whine about it, I didn't complain, I just left.

But uh we're basically having three people almost talking for 19 others, and and and if as I listened, I could I could just tell the tone was already against the GEA board, and it was slanted in a way that I thought was dangerous, and in a way that just didn't it didn't promote fairness, and I would have hated to have been on the other side, and I thought Ms.

Mosier was grilled beyond the charge of this committee.

We have to be careful, and I also found out that some of the rating agencies, and I know we hear a lot of people talk about rating agencies, but they are starting to raise their eyebrows, and when that happens and we can't get the good ratings that we need, that will make rates go up.

And oh, by the way, nobody's talked about what's going on in the Middle East and what's going on in this world right now, that's having an effect on rates.

That's why this committee, you don't even have to say we're quitting or we're shutting it down, but I would at least pause it and let the processes go through that are being done by the proper committees, but we are not one of those proper committees, and let them complete it.

And if after that we don't feel it's been done, then let the council as a whole, not three people, let the council as a whole weigh in on it and see then if we need to do something.

Folks, I I just have to tell polite, but also institutionally, and somebody that knows consolidation here as well or better than anybody.

We are out of our lane here, and if we want to wait till it's all done, then we can weigh in.

But I gotta tell you, I think the farther we get into it, the broader some of these investigations may become.

I don't want to see that happen to us.

There's been so much drama.

And all of this has caused us to lose sight of the importance of the issues in our domain.

And it just disappoints me.

And it disappoints our constituents.

And we can so much improve our stature to the citizens of this community.

If we would say, we're gonna take our foot off the pedal and we're gonna put it in park.

And let's see the processes that are the actual processes that need to be in place, complete their job, and then we can have a final say if we want to.

And that's what I would urge our council president to do.

I don't suspect uh, well, council president.

I think that would go a long ways towards healing a lot of wounds that are out there.

Uh there's a lot of people on pins and needles out there.

And I have to tell you, I'm gonna say one other thing.

Going back to 2019, I called out JEA as a scandal before anybody up here did, or back on that council, and I dare, I dare anybody to prove me wrong.

I called it out before the election, I called it out.

I have friends over there, JEA, and I've heard from a lot of them.

I've heard a lot of people talk about all the ones they've heard from.

Well, I've never said that, but I can tell you I have heard from a lot of them, and they have told me that Ms.

Carlucci, this is not right.

This is not true.

And some of the complaints are coming from some of the great members of one of the um one of the unions.

They're fighting for a contract, and so this is perhaps a good time for them to be complaining.

And I'm not sure that I wouldn't support them getting more money for their contract.

Maybe I would, maybe I wouldn't.

But that's not a part of this process.

I urge you to listen to my heart, to my soul, to my experience, and you don't have to discontinue if you will if you want to, but I would put it on pause and let these other processes take place by the agencies who are the ones that are tasked with this because it's in their lane, and then we can take uh an overall look when it's done.

And it may take a while because I think it's gonna be broader than we all think up here.

I hope you'll take that to heart before you get ready to vote.

Thank you.

Uh, thank you, Mr.

Carlucci.

That was all that was impressive.

All of that with just one sip of the diet coke.

So well done, and you can get a second bite at Apple.

Uh no, no, this committee work, you're absolutely fine.

But I will say the list is added now.

We were down to one when you started.

Now we got a couple more in.

Councilmember Diamond, you're up.

Uh, thank you, Mr.

Freeman.

So, all right, you have to ask yourself the question.

Why is anybody ever opposed to getting to the truth?

That is literally all investigative committees are supposed to do to get to the truth to bring in the sunshine.

Anytime I see an effort to stop just asking questions, just getting it out in the sunshine, having people answer questions up there, I have to ask what is the agenda.

It is absolutely amazing to me.

In 2019, we took it on the nose politically, because there was a Republican mayor with an entire conservative establishment, and we had to ask really hard questions about our friends to our friends.

And we jumped in and we did that work.

I was proud to lead the investigation of JEA in 2019.

And I do think the council of the time stopped a train that was out of control and saved JEA for all time.

And now we've got a situation literally where JEA, our most prized asset, has been delicately set underneath the boot of their largest competitor with this combined cycle plant having no permit, and we're asking those questions.

What is the what is gonna happen here?

And they're like, don't ask these questions, you're out of your lane.

This is overreach.

Same people who literally wanted to do this investigation in 2019, call this overreach and out of our lane today, literally flipping on their head exactly their stance before.

So let's just go through first a few things.

The charter absolutely allows us to do this investigation.

In fact, one of the core legislative functions of any legislator is to do oversight on the money and the powers that they have, and that's what we're doing.

We approve their budget, we have an oversight function.

Our council rules literally list it out that we can do that with any of these independent agencies.

Asking questions of an independent agency does not rob them of their independence.

Asking questions of an independent agency does not rob them of their power.

It's simply ask questions, which is our job.

We are elected to ask questions, to ask for the truth.

There's absolutely no conflict with any investigations going on right now.

You know why?

Because the investigators have told me there is no conflict.

I talked to the statewide prosecutor.

He said, Go at it.

I've heard nothing from the state attorney saying we need to slow down.

I've heard nothing from the OIG asking us to slow down.

No one has said it.

They can call me.

My cell phone number is widely available.

No one has asked us to slow down, and we're gonna keep going.

There is a BS thing that was put out there that this somehow enables people to try and sell JEA.

We're never selling JEA.

Using that fear of employees about a sale of JEA to try and stop us asking questions of their executives is disgusting to me.

This notion that the bond agencies are worried is a lie.

It is simply not true.

The bond agencies are literally providing information to every minute of civil bondholder across the country, every single municipality that has bonds, has local politics.

This is not new, this is not original.

This we didn't even have bond changes during the nightmare of 2019.

Certainly us asking a few good questions about what's going on over there is is part of our purview, and the bonds are not going up.

So again, what is the agenda to slow us down?

What has changed between 2019 and today?

I tell you exactly what's changed.

You had a Republican mayor, now you have a Democratic mayor.

That's the only thing that's changed.

Literally the only thing is a political effort to slow down simply asking questions.

I love my colleague, Councilman Boyle, and I will use your name, sir, uh, because I have such deep respect for you.

Um maybe there's redirection going on in politics here, but not from me.

I have no stomach for that kind of stuff.

What I know for absolutely 100% sure is this isn't our purview.

And I really, really care about the combined cycle plan, and I think that is a massive issue that we need to have oversight over.

We need to ask those questions.

It's literally the future of the entire organization.

Um you're right.

We did rewrite the charter so that JEA has control of its employees, and and I'm not trying to hire or fire anybody.

I'm not trying to promote anybody.

Um candidly, the toxic culture part of this investigation is the least interesting to me.

But we do have a right to ask questions.

I mean, we do.

We can ask questions, we can do surveys, we can do all that stuff.

That's not the same as saying, hey, Vicky Kavey, you gotta you gotta rehire Kurt Wilson.

We're not doing that, right?

We're just saying we wanted to ask questions.

All right.

So then the question is what have we already discovered, right?

And this thing is just getting going.

One, we already had testimony up here that we have senior executives making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year being paid to do nothing, literally paid to do nothing.

If that's all we found out, I would say that's worth it.

We're paying people to do nothing.

Two, we are now under the boot of FPL if they want to use their political control to stop the PSC from giving us the permission to build a combined cycle plan.

If that doesn't chill your spine, then nothing will.

In addition to that, we're looking at a hundred million dollars, probably, possibly, pardon me, not charged to customers.

And we have at the same time of not charging big fancy rich customers, people who literally pay their electric bill in quarters are having their rates go up.

So for the poor ratepayers versus these rich ones, we need to ask those questions also.

People are actually hurt when JEA raises rates, and they're doing it on all our constituents.

There was a request that we put the pause button, absolutely not.

If anything, put our foot on the gas.

Let's help stop these rates from going up.

Let's just get truth, just truth.

Just ask questions and get answers.

That's what I would like from the sick.

That's what I think the sick is doing.

Look, we got 10 votes for this money, it's gonna pass.

There's probably 10 votes to keep this thing going through a year if we have to.

And so I'm fully supportive of just asking questions and doing our job.

I was elected by 86% of the vote in the last election.

The first four years I spent almost all of it doing investigations.

My constituents said yes, keep going, keep doing it.

I wrote more good government legislation than anyone in the history of this body, and I'm gonna continue to do good government and oversight and will not be slowed down by the civic council or anybody else.

We're gonna do it.

All right, thank you.

We have several others that have now joined uh for the first time, Councilmember Gay, you're recognized.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um through the chair to Councilmember Salem.

The purpose of the survey is to uh find out the issues with personnel and if you could clarify that one more time of the purpose of this survey.

Thank you, Chair.

Vice Chair.

The purpose of this survey is we have as I indicated, identified 144 people that work in that building that are managers or above that we feel like have had interaction with Ms.

Kavey.

One of the questions we're gonna ask through this survey is do they interact with Ms.

Kavey?

So we can we can separate those that do versus those that don't, and we can get a feel if there is if there is a toxic workplace with those that do interact with her.

I'm not drawing any conclusions, but that's the purpose of the survey, and then obviously to gather that information and provide it to the board, because from what for everything I've heard about their survey, it's more of a check-in type survey.

It will not be nearly as specific as ours in regard to the leadership.

Okay.

Thank you through the through the chair, uh the council Salem.

So the findings will be given to JEA.

There will not be an action by the council.

It will be collecting this data and giving it to uh JEA.

Absolutely.

And I've said that from the very beginning.

Okay.

That's not our role.

I the where councilmember Carlucci and I agree, that is the board's role is to take that information and and do with it what they feel like is appropriate.

Okay.

Thank you through the chair.

So what I I'm just hearing a lot of items being discussed here that are really not what's presented to us here that we're going to be voting on that combined cycle plant, uh the past sale of the JEA to where a lot of this is uh events that could or have taken place in the past where this is not really what's in front of us to be able to vote on.

And what I'm looking at were to vote on is in any situation, any circumstance, um there's nothing wrong with getting more information.

Uh to do us to look at this situation with the employees.

Um it should be an open door.

There's no we feel there's no for essence that we feel there's no problem, come and look.

We're an open book.

And that's that's where I feel like what this should be is an open book to be able to go in to get the information to confirm what uh has or has not happened.

Yes, there's going to be disgruntled employees.

That's always going to happen.

There's going to be satisfied employees.

So it is basically get this information.

I don't see uh any harm with this moving outside of the charter.

Um with what I'm hearing and what's going to be done with this information collected and turned over to the JEA.

We're not taking action on their employees.

That is for them to evaluate and apply to the best uh possible way that they need to run their departments and their organization.

So uh I just feel like we were just getting a lot of distorted information here to bring this back into the true purpose of what we're doing.

So thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh thank you, Councilmember Gay.

I'm almost wishing I would have taken this up at the end now because we got a lot of folks waiting for their bills to go through, and and this list just keeps growing.

Now, all three of you are on here for the second bite at Apple.

I'm not gonna put a clock on, but um we have all four of you now are on here for a second bite at Apple, and you Councilmember Salem, all five of you are now here on here for the second by uh no councilmember white, first bite at Apple, you recognize.

Thank you through the chair.

I have a question for Dr.

Salem, if you'd allow.

Is this your belief and the committee's belief that our independent survey would uh make it more comfortable possibly for the JEA employees to respond?

There might be some mistrust in-house survey, and is that your belief that there's a better chance that we'll get a true picture of what their thoughts are.

Councilman Sandy, you want to answer that?

Okay.

Yes, I do believe that.

Uh I think the employees are are very leery of JEA surveys.

They've been burned in the past, as I've been told, where the actual results individually were made public, so to speak.

And we're going to do everything we can through the mechanism that I'm working with Mr.

Teal on to uh allow the employees to respond completely separate from JEA.

Thank you.

Thank you for your uh allowing that, uh Mr.

Freeman.

Thank you.

All righty.

So now we're getting ready to go back.

Kickoff is at six o'clock tonight, so I got plenty of time.

So uh we'll start with uh do you want to go at the end still?

Or you'll go.

All right, Councilmember Salem, you're recognized.

And Councilmember Joe Carlucci, uh, your your cue is working.

I just want to make sure I'm not missing you, Greg.

All right, Tim Fore.

Just one thing I I I wanted to respond to, and that is the interference of other agencies.

Um as soon as uh I heard uh the state attorney was involved in in an investigation of JEA, I called the JEA within an hour of hearing that.

And I was told by the senior leadership of the State Attorney's Office, go forward.

If there's anything that comes up, we've got your number.

As soon as the Attorney General got engaged, I picked up the phone, used uh uh and called the Attorney General's lead investigator, who called me right back, and he he indicated go forward.

There's no reason your investigation should not go forward.

I would not be going, I would not be a part of anything if I thought we were interfering in any other law enforcement investigation.

And if they called me tomorrow and said you need to stop or stay away from this particular subject, I absolutely would.

But I but so that part of it bothers me when someone suggests that that this investigation is interfering in any shape or form.

In fact, they almost, in my opinion, encouraged us to go forward.

In fact, there have been investigators from those offices in the audience at some of our hearings, which tells me they're watching us and may be learning information from us.

So I and number two I travel around town, I interact with a lot of constituents.

Um I have a lot of people telling me, please continue.

We feel like there might be something going on over there.

And please keep digging and find out the truth.

And that's what I intend to do with my colleagues.

Thank you, Vice Chair.

Uh thank you so much.

Uh with the sticking with the body, uh, Councilmember Amaro, you're up next, and then Boylan and then Carlucci.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

I'm I'm gonna be quick.

Um personally I don't think the committee is necessary, but uh it's within our purview as a body, and that horse is out the barn, and so I'm not gonna beat that horse.

Uh my focus is primarily on the survey, on the survey.

And I asked the question about methodology uh because I'm concerned that when you're looking for empirical evidence, quantitative, qualitative information.

I don't believe you can get that from former employees who may have be carrying a grudge.

Uh we may which may produce something negative that weighs the outcome.

And so that's why my question about why are we talking to former employees if we want to collect true data that can give us the information that we're looking for, which should be fair and objective, and let the truth fall where it may.

Uh that's my only concern, the methodology.

And and so uh I'd like to see former employees removed from it because I I really think that that can taint the outcome.

Uh thank you.

And I have a question on that.

I'll know for the first time through the chair, uh to the chair.

I am the chair.

Uh Councilmember Salem.

Uh on this survey.

Um, will there be a delineation between former employees and current?

I mean, it seems like that's just a simple question to ask, and then the data can then kind of veer off from that point.

I've said this several times, but apparently I haven't made myself clear.

There are there are about 15.

Mr.

Teal, I'm looking at you.

Around 15, around 15 past employees that have contacted us, and I've made it perfectly clear.

We will allow them to perform a survey, but in no shape or form will that data be included in the existing employees.

They have they have asked to perform to participate, and I feel like we ought to allow them to do something.

So we're going to allow them to complete a survey, but that data will be completely separate from the employees, the active employees working there.

Thank you.

That that answered my question because I thought that was a very good point that he brought up, and I love how you use quantitative and qualitative.

Took me back to my statistics days in college, which was a long time ago.

Councilmember Matt Carlucci, you recognize.

Oh, Boylan, I'm so sorry.

I'm pretty qualitative myself, once in a while at least.

I again, in principle, I think I made my point very clear.

I'm not comfortable with us in the overreach that we're doing here.

And I do appreciate the fact that we do have a responsibility to do investigative.

And there are some matters that this committee, the spec committee is taking up that I think is appropriate.

My question with respect to this one.

Notwithstanding, I'm in my line of work, I would suggest that we make this a resolution, encouraging the JEA board to do an independent apart from that.

But be that as it may, that's probably not going to happen because the answer that question was answered.

There are people.

Mr.

Salem, you recognize.

I asked uh just so you understand.

I asked Ms.

Brooks for a list of employees that work in that building that we felt like interact with Ms.

Cavey.

Um there were more than 144, but we we cut it off at the title of manager and above.

We felt like that's good.

That's all I just need to know.

Yes.

So you you get a 144 surveys returned.

Is it going to be the role of the committee to digest those surveys and make a determination if 30 percent of those were dissatisfied or are not comfortable with the situation?

One.

I mean Mr.

Councilmember O'Marrow's questions with respect to methodology.

I would be comfortable, I guess, in lieu of passing a resolution saying encourage them to do it independent.

But if they we are going to do it, let's just turn the results over to them.

So we're not making a recommendation that they utilize the information, that they make a determination whether they want to use it or not.

Can you speak to whether or not what is the threshold that we take action based upon the results of the survey?

Thank you.

And I think earlier you said that we are just going to turn the information over that we gather to the board.

Is that correct, Councilman?

I want to make sure that's clear.

Yes, sure.

Where are you?

Mike.

We are using an expert.

Understood.

And and they have indicated that they will analyze the data and are happy to make a presentation to an entity of some sort, whether that's the committee or the JEA board.

My goal is to get this information in front of the board, additional information that they're going to get from their own survey.

And keep in mind, the board, when the survey came up, could not get a second to discuss it at the February board meeting.

Sometimes we forget that.

And they uh it wasn't until this committee got started that they hired this outside law firm.

Those are just facts.

There's no speculation there.

But uh Councilmember Boylan, that's the intent of this is to get this information to the board with some type of analysis by the entity who were paying, and they have told us they will make a presentation.

I it's not my I did surveys when I was in academics, but it's been a it's been 40 years since I did this.

Okay.

So I want the experts to analyze the data.

Councilmember Boylan, you still have the floor.

Thank you, sir.

Uh Ms.

Shell, uh, does the ordinance stipulate specifically that the results of this survey will be turned over to the board of JEA?

Through the chair to Councilmember Boylan.

So legislation reads that once the survey has been finalized and approved by the city, Selection Link Inc.

will disseminate said survey and collect data through its online platform upon completion of the survey selection link in, we'll provide an overall report and will conduct at least one executive presentation of the data found and survey results focusing on key performance indicators to be determined by the city.

We'll provide an overall report and we'll conduct at least one executive presentation of the data found and survey results focusing on key performance indicators to be determined by the city.

If it doesn't say who that presentation is going, if we're going to move down this route, if we're using the the character and quality of the intent of the introducer of this ordinance, I would recommend that we amend the bill to reflect the fact that the results will be turned over directly to the JEA board.

If that's the intent to provide them a resource to make a determination whether they've got some issues or whether they have to deal with management issues, personnel issues, let them make that determination and for us not to sift through that.

So I will turn around and ask uh my colleague councilman Salem if you would be comfortable in specifying specifically the results of their presentation be made to the board of JEA.

Councilmember Salem, you're recognized.

I'll even say that the presentation that they've committed to do is presented to the JEA board.

That's what I'm asking for.

Yes.

Yes.

They've they've committed to one presentation, and if it makes you more comfortable to support this.

Well, one second one second.

I think we have an amendment on the floor that needs a second.

I'm offering that as an amendment.

So can I get a second, please?

So we got an amendment on the floor and a second.

Do we need to restate what that amendment is or is everyone clear what we're discussing?

Through the chair of the committee, my understanding of the boiling amendment is that it would amend the legislation to read that they will provide at least one executive presentation to the JEA board.

No, to one presentation to the JEA board.

No, at least the findings of the survey.

So we have a motion on the boiling bill to have one presentation to the JA board, seconded by councilmember gay, councilmember Salem.

How do you you're you were on the I interrupted you, so go ahead and finish it.

As I I think I said that the and I'm looking at Mr.

Till, they have committed to one presentation to an entity of some sort, a a verbal presentation.

I don't know if we got into Zoom or or in person or whatever it may be, but I'm happy that that one presentation be made to the JEA board.

And I'm gonna say this at 320.

I'm gonna table this and get everyone else out of here if we don't start landing a plane.

So I'm not gonna put anybody on the clock, but I'm just gonna table it to get everyone that's sitting here going through it out.

Um Mr.

Till, because now we're bringing we're bringing witnesses up to talk, and I have two more in here.

So I have 317.

So if this plane doesn't land by 325, it will be tabled and we will be moving to the rest of our agenda and then we'll come back and finish it.

So we have Mr.

Till, you had a question from Councilman Salem.

Please feel free to state your name address.

Jason Teal, uh City Council, legislative council.

So through the chair to the committee.

So the contract authorizes one executive presentation.

It also authorizes additional work that can be done at 350 dollars an hour.

So if the set committee were to desire an additional uh presentation to it, it's it is um possible that the current contract would allow that.

But the current contract uh allows one executive presentation, but does not dictate to whom that presentation is given.

So does that answer your question, Councilman Boylan?

Uh you have we have an amendment out right now in a second.

I thought I tried to make it as clear as I could.

There's one presentation that's made to the JEA board.

It comes out of the hands of this committee and out of this council.

All we're doing is providing them a resource over the survey, and that the JE board is the only one who's going to see this presentation and have an opportunity to speak to it.

Michelle, do you want to respond to that?

I mean, to me, it sounds like we can determine just trying to make sure it doesn't come back to the council for interpretation or the the committee for interpretation.

I don't necessarily know if that's possible, to be honest with you in the government in sunshine when information is out, it's out.

And and and 19 of us um we're not taking action.

Understood.

Understood.

All right.

So we're gonna go ahead and take a vote on it.

You are you on the amendment, Mr.

Carlucci?

All right, Mr.

Carlucci, you recognize on the Boylan amendment.

That thank you.

Uh I want to clarify, but what I'm thinking hearing is we get our uh presuming we do our um uh survey and we get it back and we figure out what the survey says in general, I guess.

No.

Okay, nope.

But but we're gonna make a presentation to the JEA board with that.

No, they will they'll make that presentation.

The selection link.

The experts.

I'm doing the survey.

Okay.

Yes, sir.

Doesn't matter.

Yes.

Our survey.

Got it.

And they're collecting it up, and they're gonna make the presentation.

Now, this is what concerns me.

If their survey comes back, completely different from maybe JEA survey, okay.

That's the that's the confusion.

That's the lack of credibility that could be on us or them.

So uh uh uh hold on.

Go ahead.

I'm we're we're listening.

What do we have to do then?

Best two out of three.

This is why this is the concern that I have, and this is the concern that the GEA has, I believe.

They have look, they've got a very credible board of which we have some appointments on, and the mayor has some appointments on.

We need to stick to our knitting and let them stick to their knitting.

Now, once they conclude their interviews and they give a report, and if we see some real flaws in it, then we can come back and take a look at that perhaps.

But if you send two in and they happen to be completely different, and because maybe the questions were different in some sort of a way, then it may be an apples versus oranges.

I I gotta tell you, I see red flags all over that, and I just that's why I'm concerned about it.

I will tell you that that that has the potential for some there's some potential for real problems with that.

Look, you know, if I own a business myself, and I was told you got some problems with uh you've got some problems with your employees, Ms.

Carlucci.

And I did a survey on mine, and then somebody wanted to come in and do surveys of my employees for me.

Then I got two surveys to look at, and somebody was going to come in and judge those two surveys.

Which one are they gonna believe?

I I I just cannot uh impress upon this committee that is not the way to go.

And and my good friend Councilmember Boylan, that's a nice sounding compromise, but that could lead to two totally different uh conclusions because there may be different sets of questions.

Uh this committee already sounds like it's slanted in the wrong direction, and I'm sorry, but that's the way it sounds clearly when I listen to the meetings.

Yes, sir.

Folks, we're we're we're wandering down the wrong path.

We're on the amendment still, correct?

Yes, we are, and the wrong path is passing this amendment and having a second whole different set of questions that we're gonna let somebody make a presentation to, but they're gonna be the conclusions from the questions that are put together by this group.

Okay, I guess by three or four people.

Yes, sir.

That doesn't reflect the whole council, and I'm not comfortable with that.

And I I don't think anybody else should be either.

All right, seeing no one else in the queue.

All in favor of the bullet amendment, say aye.

Uh those opposed have the same right.

The amendment carries.

Move the bill as amended.

Good motion and a second on the bill as amended.

See anyone in the queue, please open the belt.

Uh we will roll them up.

So we're on the bill as now twice amended, which has been rolled into one.

Councilmember Carlucci, and I'm gonna I'm going to put the clock on this one now, unfortunately, because we've been over in the house.

No worries, but I just want to be on the record on this.

Three minutes, please.

Go ahead.

I want to be on the record.

So the uh was my paper where I was so um I'm asking for the proper agencies to do the work.

Now I want to say this in all due respect to my friend Councilman Salem.

I called the state attorney's office also.

And I'm gonna tell you what they told me was a lot different from what they told you, sir.

You can laugh all you want to, but I know them better than you do.

Um I heard uh going back to the 2020 sick committee, and one of our council members said that he was ahead of that sick committee.

He stepped down from that sick committee pretty quickly.

And you can go back and check the record, but he did.

Uh the what this will do in the way we're going about it, it's going to discourage other members from our business and civic community from wanting to volunteer for their services in these capacities.

The um, as I understand it, the uh JEA just completed a um a survey of their employees.

So now we're gonna do they're gonna do another one.

The state attorney may come to these sick committees, but just remember if they're coming to these sick committees, they may not just be listening to who you think they're listening to.

They may be listening to some of the folks up here too.

Be careful what you asked for.

We're heading down the wrong direction with this.

I'm so sorry that we are, but look, I'm only one vote, but I gave warnings out about so many things up here.

And um, thank you.

Trying to be polite, but I'll take it up again, city committee.

No, that works, and we've hit my threshold of time, and I got one and seconds.

I had 15 seconds.

That was the quickest 19 seconds.

Yeah, it was pretty quick.

Uh, because I'm about to table it.

Uh, Councilmember Gay, we're at 326, and I'm I'm gonna table it if you if you go beyond like two or three minutes because we yes, sir, I understand where everyone's at.

Go ahead, Councilmember.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

I'll be quick.

Um, the the comment about three three members directing uh all this uh it it starts with the three on the committee, then it comes to the seven, six on this this committee, and then it'll go to full council for for the full vote.

So I look at it as as we had you you've got we're we're following the right protocol.

We're we're going step by step, and I appreciate Councilman Bowland's amendment uh to help clarify and get this moving forward.

So want to make that.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Gay, and Councilmember Boyland.

I do too appreciate you trying to uh find a way to land the plane.

Um councilman Salem, I'm gonna trust my colleagues.

I've been a part of this process and as a president and had to create a sick committee.

Um is a challenge, but I have done it.

Um so I know Mr.

President, it's never an easy decision to make.

Um I do understand that to the point of three, but it does and then all of our laps.

We all carry this burden and this responsibility.

Um and last I'm gonna say is is my trust right now is in my colleagues here, um, more so than putting outside in other hands.

Um and that's just going off of my personal experience that I'm dealing with with government right now.

I'm just not in a good place.

So as long as something stays in our purview, I feel like the people of Jacksonville are gonna be served because I can I'll go back to JSAB right now.

I'm gonna kick this horse so many times.

JSAB, I go back to public service grants.

We've made votes on this council, we've given up our freedom, and we've been told, hey, if we don't choose to do it that way, we're not doing it.

So I'm not one right now that's willing to try to give up any of our purview because of how I'm being treated.

And if anybody sees that it's different, then again, we can agree to disagree.

So with that being said, it's been moved and seconded, it's been rolled into one.

Please open the ballot and record your vote.

Six years, one nay.

By your actions, you've approved 2026-0268 as amended.

Um is Councilman Diamond still here, or did he leave?

All right, because he asked for us to take his bill up, but I don't I don't see it.

All right, so this takes us back to the top of the exenda to the agenda.

We've already talked about item one's been deferred and two.

Um we'll go to our next action item, which will be item nine.

Uh 2026 0258.

We have a neighborhoods amendment.

Looking for a motion and second.

You got a motion and a second on Awards amendment.

Can someone please explain it?

Through the chair to the committee, the neighborhoods amendment will revise the qualifications for the renew Arlington CRA advisory board members to require the business owner member to own a business located within council district one rather than within a one-mile radius of the CRA boundary, and second, require the citizen members to live within council district one rather than within three miles of the CRA boundary and east and south of the river, and also correct some scriveners' heirs.

Thank you.

Bringing it back to the committee.

Uh all in favor of a neighborhood's amendment.

Say aye.

Aye.

Those opposed have the same right.

The amendment carries.

We got a motion and second on the bill as amended.

Um seeing any discussion.

I do have one question.

Um I saw and I discussed this in the pre-agenda meeting that uh the CRA for district 10, Councilmember Pittman was not here.

Um and so this was taken, it was taken off of the block.

Um I was the former district council person for 10.

And I can tell you that when I first brought up the CRA conversation back in 2018 or 19, it was a it was a difficult process to get started because to find individuals that lived within that old now.

This is before redistricting that old area was a challenge, and that's why we expanded it.

So I think that district 10 would benefit by adding it to this as well.

I'm not quite sure of what a motion or what amendment would need to be added to add it, but now you're expanding District 10 because they're already bringing people from outside of it to serve in the district 10 CRA.

And and I'm pretty confident that the district council member, as a former district 10 councilperson, I don't I'm pretty confident that they would not be upset with that.

Um is that a motion to add that in the uh to the chair, just to clarify.

So we're talking about King's Hutel Crossing, and you're talking about category four.

Okay.

What one are you talking about?

What is what we talked about in office this before prior to this meeting?

Yes.

So if you want to amend the legislation to change category four to be um do you want to leave the live work or own a business within district ten, is what you're thinking?

I just want the same purview, the same scope that we're giving one, the Arlington CRA, if we're able to give District 10 the same scope.

I know that the district has changed, but are we able to give them the same?

And I see Councilmember Gamaro shaking his head, no.

Uh Councilmember Maur, you want to add questions to that?

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um what we discovered this morning was that district 10 covers two other city council districts.

Well, I'm sorry, the CRA, King Suitel Crossing covers three district 10, district uh 12, and district nine, and therefore it was rather impossible to use the same application that we're now using for district one.

Um Karen uh Nas Rala is at the uh roster.

I I I get that.

I'm guessing I'm confused a little bit on the the CRA was when we say uh district one that's Arlington area.

I'm thinking completely district one as in going across the river, old school district one, and that is no longer the case.

That's district two that's across the river.

Uh I'm saying going up the oceanway.

That's two, and so you're that they're not in the Arlington CRA.

I'm tracking what you okay.

I'm completely good.

Yeah.

Uh seeing no one else in the queue.

Uh let's oh, it's been moved in property second.

Let's open the ballot and record your vote.

I got you now.

Thank you.

Seven yes, zero nays.

By your actions, you approve 2260258.

Takes us to our next action item, which will be item 12 on page eight.

2026 0267.

We got a motion and a second on the amendment.

Can someone please explain the amendment?

Through the chair to the committee.

The amendment will remove the waiver of code section 745-105 J 10, uh, which relates to noticing requirements.

This waiver is not necessary because there's no affected property owners to notice, uh, no addressed parcels on this street.

All right.

Seeing no one in the queue, all in favor of the amendment, say aye.

Those opposed have the same right, the amendment carries.

Got a motion and second on the bill as amended.

See no one in the queue, please open the ballot, record your vote.

Seven yay, zero nays.

By actions, you've approved 2026 0267 as amendment, as amended.

Takes us to our next action item, which is Adam 14, 2026 0270.

We got a motion and a second on the resolution.

Uh seeing no one in the queue, please open the ballot, record your vote.

Six years, one nay.

By actions you've approved 20260270 takes us to us next action item, which is item 16, 2026 0288 on the amendment.

Got a motion and second on the amendment.

Can someone please explain the amendment?

Through the chair to the committee.

I'll go through that first and pause and let you consider that.

Uh the technical amendment will update the maximum page limit for the grant application to 17 pages.

This is just a result of the changes that are being made to the application contents for the opioid grants.

We'll correct some terminology in the bill and correct some scriveners' errors.

All right.

Seeing no one in the queue.

All in favor of the amendment say aye.

Those opposed have the same right.

The amendment carries.

And a motion second on the bill is amended.

Seeing no one in the queue, please open the ballot, record your vote.

Seven yes, zero nays.

By actions you've approved 2026, 0288 as amended.

Next action item will be.

Oh, Ms.

Carrey, you're recognized.

Mr.

Chair, we had an auditor recommended amendment on that last bill, but if you'd like we could just address that in finance tomorrow, this bill will be up in finance.

Sure, I think they'd rather have it in finance.

Got it.

So next action item is item 35 on page 18.

2026 0349 has been moved and properly seconded.

Seeing no one in the queue, please open the ballot and record your vote.

Oops.

Seven yes, zero nays.

By your actions, you approve 2026 0349.

Takes us to our next action item.

Oh, council president, I'm sorry, you recognize.

Did we vote on 16?

So I would kindly ask someone to move to reconsider that so I can clean up the record and abstain from that.

Second.

So we have a motion and a second on the reconsideration.

You got to put me in the right posture in here again.

We got to redo the whole thing, but is it's a verbal vote on the reconsideration.

All in favor of reconsidering, please say aye.

Aye.

Those opposed have the same right.

All right.

We got a motion and second on the amendment.

Will we please explain the amendment?

Well, before you do that, can I abstain before we get into the action?

Yes.

Go ahead, Council President.

Thank you for recognizing me.

I would like to abstain from 2026-0288 as this is an opioid settlement proceeds grant, and I always abstain from these due to my employment at the boys and girls clubs in Northeast Florida, who frequently applies and has been awarded dollars in the past from these funds so that we can help teach kids to stay away from drugs.

So I'll abstain from this on the record.

Thank you for the reconsideration.

No problem.

Can we please explain the amendment?

Through the chair to the committee.

All right.

Seeing no one else in the queue.

All in favor of the amendment, say aye.

Those opposed have the same right.

The amendment carries.

Six years, zero nays, one abstention.

By your actions, you approve 2026 0288 as amended.

You can thank council member Carlucci for uh running the clock out for you.

Um item 45, 2026, 0361.

Uh got a motion, second on the bill.

Seeing no one in the queue, please open the ballot, record your vote.

Seven yes, zero nays.

By your actions you've approved 2026 0361.

Uh the rest have been seconded.

I did have one last ask while I have Mr.

Dennis here on item 46.

I'm just trying to get ahead of the curve now, so I won't have to do it.

Um this is on second reading.

Uh we moved 200,000 over into that.

Uh will that be something that the administration would support?

They supported the council president's initiative of 5 million.

It was placed uh ended up placing the budget.

Well, we just added 200,000 to it.

I want to make sure that that 200,000 is not gonna hold up the council president's initiative.

Uh through the chair, um if we can clarify a statement that you made earlier about the 200,000, I think that was uh 2026 to uh 249, uh, where you said the administration was holding up uh so first I want to I want to handle 2026 0362.

Will you do you all support the 200,000 being added to the five million?

I'll get to your point in a minute, but I have the council president here, it's his initiative.

Sure.

He added 200,000 that came from public service grant.

Uh this one came from ITD.

This was the 200,000 that the kids uh was coding in color, the same individual, the same students that the mayor took a picture with the first day of school in the atrium, had the big signs up.

I still have it.

Uh for some reason it could not be done this time, and so those dollars were reappropriated by myself so that we could use it in this fiscal year to the youth at works committee, which is a committee focusing on ages 16 through 24.

Um students from many backgrounds, um, many of them challenged.

I hope it aligns with the agenda, but I'm just asking is this something that I don't want the 200,000 to hold up the president's initiative is where I'm trying to make sure I land.

Uh through the chair uh and to the committee.

As you know, uh you all have you know this bill on the floor, and you will make uh a decision whether to appropriate or not.

Umce it is appropriated, the administration will take the appropriate uh steps in um in following out you know uh laws and things like that.

However, I want to go back to the misinformation that you said that the administration is holding up.

You said the administration is holding up uh the 200,000 that you appropriated before, which was untrue.

And so we're you can stop right there, Mr.

Dennis.

Time out.

Um, we're not gonna roll into a lengthy discussion and debate here.

So thank you so much for answering my question.

5.2 million, uh Council President, you've heard that it's not gonna hold up yours.

Uh are there any other questions on this body?

None.

All right.

So now, Mr.

Dennis, I will afford you an opportunity, but we're not gonna go badgering back and forth.

Uh I heard something about misinformation, and now that'll be a debate that you and I get into that I'm sure my colleagues don't have much of an interest for.

I'm sure.

Well, through the chair, no disrespect, um, councilman, but you put on the record that that the administration was holding up uh money for small businesses, and you know, so what I put on the record was public service grants.

There was 200,000 that this body approved for small businesses.

And that nope, for public service grants.

And I worked with Ms.

Figaroa, I worked with Dr.

Hervey, and then we were told that it could not be done in this, that it needed to be carried over, that it couldn't be done to August or September.

No explanation other than capacity.

That's what we were told.

This is all on the record.

So therefore, I then took the 200,000 and moved it to JSAB's microgrants, and was found and was told the Sunday before it went to committee that you all were not going to support it.

And then in committee, it was stated that it did not align with the mayor's agenda.

And then it was stated from the day from the podium that it would that microgrants were inefficient and non-impactful.

And I had to then bring to the record that now microgrants, because of my good friend Councilmember Salem are 25,000, no longer 9,000.

And so therefore, 25, 8,000, 200,000 could be eight, or it could just be one.

So capacity could not be the excuse.

So that is where we got to.

The J Seb advisory board took it up in their latest meeting.

There will be a resolution coming from that board saying that they want those dollars to be used.

So that is when I said held up.

It was held up, told us it could not be used in this physical year for the public service grants.

That's where that 200,000 came from.

Thank you.

Um through the chair, do I have the floor to speak?

Or if not, then uh You may you you can respond to the truth.

I want to make sure that the facts are out there.

So thank you, Councilman.

And uh again, um, just like you say, you can go to the record in the last committee meeting.

Uh you said that the mayor and the administration is holding up for kids.

So uh, you know, what's so we can hit police there.

So the JSEB microgrants program.

No, no, no, no.

The J Seb microgrant program.

If you don't want to get the truth out, please please stop the mic.

Please cut his mic off.

The J seven microgrant program, we had two students come and speak to us, is what I said.

One is Cameron, who has a financial literacy program.

He's a ranged student.

He has a book that he sells.

He also wants to do work with the boys and girls club and others.

They presented.

There was another young lady that presented on AI.

Those were the ones that we said, I said we're holding up for kids.

Because the microgrant, when I heard them speak to the advisory board, and I challenge anyone, I have them, you can go get the minutes.

She'll come, she's been to my job, and now I have you speaking, and you've never been in my office to meet on issues.

So I don't like this trying to create this debate, this this discussion back and forth when we can have this face to face in an office setting.

So with that being said, this meeting's adjourned.