Good afternoon.

Welcome to the special committee on JEA.

Let me begin by introductions to my far left.

Colleen Hamsey, Council Research.

Mary Stefopoulos, Office of General Counsel.

Brian Parks, Council Auditor's Office.

Philip Peterson, Council Otter.

Jason Teal, Legislative Council.

Good afternoon, Rory Diamond, District 13, the Beaches.

Ron Salem, group two at large.

Jacoby Pittman, District 10.

Kevin Carico, District 4.

At Carlucci at large, group for just visiting.

Okay.

Before we get into uh, I understand, Miss Kavey, you have an opening statement.

I was told just a few minutes ago.

Yes, sir.

Okay.

I understand it's like five or ten minutes.

I don't think it's that long, sir.

Okay.

We'll get to you in just a couple minutes.

Uh capacity fee update.

Council auditors.

Through the chair to the committee.

Uh, so kind of the update on where we are.

I'll first start with where JA is in their process.

So they had focused in on the three-inch and larger and based on their approach.

They've calculated a high amount that should be no more than 25 million cumulative since about 2003.

That was mentioned by Jody Brooks in her last meeting as well.

Um we have validated certain aspects of that calculation and have reason to believe that based on the approach that some calculations may be understated slightly in certain situations from a maximum exposure.

And then there's also in others, as they've mentioned in their thing that they are actually overstated in that because they'll be multifamily related, where if there's not a change in the number of units, they wouldn't actually owe anything, so there's aspects of that that we're working through.

And we were right now upstairs reviewing that.

Um we are working to finalize our approach for testing and hope to be at least through the three inch and larger meters by the time the city council returns from break.

No matter what, we will have to take a break for the budget review.

We are also hoping to form at least some testing related to the smaller than three inch meters to determine whether we need to test further or whether or not there's a valid reason to exclude from testing, i.e., there's not a material amount that could be owed.

Could you explain your $25 million comment that you said a couple minutes ago?

Yes.

So as Jody also mentioned in her testimony the other day, they have calculated an initial amount of accumulative, that would be $25 million that was not collected on a high end.

Again, that's what they've stated as.

And so we are reviewing their analysis and stuff like that and testing different pieces of that as we are going through right now.

And that includes that would include Mayo Clinic in that $25 million.

Yes, because it any meter larger than three inches, three inches and larger.

Okay included.

Sure, would love to get this done before the budget process, but I'm sure y'all are doing everything you can to do that.

Mr.

Peterson is, I'm sure.

Okay.

Update on the employee survey, Mr.

Teal.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair, through the chair to the committee.

So the survey went live today.

Uh, and so I got an email this morning from our contact at selection link uh confirming that it went live and as within the few first few minutes uh of it being live.

They had already gotten 19 responses.

Uh and so um so clearly the employees have uh have access to it.

Uh it is gonna run for two weeks, and they are scheduling four uh separate additional emails to remind folks that uh that haven't completed it uh to um to go online and complete it.

So it's up and running, it's live.

Uh it's going according to plan.

Uh, and um we expect that it will close uh two weeks from today.

Okay, for the ordinance that passed uh we will uh we are allowed one presentation on that data from our survey that that presentation will be offered to the board of directors of JEA if they would like to have it, and I'll talk more about that at the board meeting on Tuesday.

Okay, Miss Kavey.

I need to I need to read this statement, please.

Do you solemnly swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth under the penalties of perjury?

I do.

Okay.

Would you please uh give us your opening statement?

Yes, sir.

Thank you, Chair Salem, and members of the committee.

I am Vicki Kavey, Managing Director and CEO of JEA.

I am proud to work with every team member and want to publicly acknowledge and thank them for the fantastic job they do 24 hours a day, seven days a week, three hundred and sixty-five days a year, providing vital services for our community.

My apologies ahead of time to the committee.

I'm a bit hard of hearing, and I may ask you to repeat some questions.

Thank you to Teresa Eichner and her technology team for providing this ADA compliant device for me.

Councilman Salem.

I heard your concerns regarding JEA committee meetings and workshops not being live streamed.

And recorded.

Optics matter.

Those meetings are always audio recorded.

But again, optics matter.

We live stream the recent budget workshop, and we will be live streaming and recording committee meetings and workshops from now on.

A word on our recent survey.

Engagement surveys are intended to give employees a voice and to effectuate change.

The survey is a tool for continuous improvement, not a performance review, nor an assessment of individual leaders.

The survey goes to every single JEA employee and has been scheduled to launch in May some time ago.

We will be using these results to develop action plans for addressing key issues within individual groups and corporately as well.

The strongest positive theme was the quality of our people and teams, and I couldn't agree more.

The survey comments show that some employees have concerns regarding trust and leadership decisions.

It also shows that other employees are supportive of the direction we're taking.

We are focused on the organizational issues employees raised and what we can do to improve.

Employees care deeply about this organization, our customers, and our future.

They are asking leadership to communicate clearly, build trust, and create an environment where they can succeed.

Those are reasonable expectations, and we are committed to addressing them.

Jody Brooks and JEA staff did an excellent job of explaining the combined cycle project.

I hope it answered your questions.

As you heard also, the legacy additional capacity fee issue is very complicated, but we are diligently working towards a solution, and thank you to the council auditor's office for their engagement.

I'll now take your questions.

Thank you, Ms.

KB.

What I'd like to do today, we're going to go to Mr.

Teal first, Mr.

Diamond, second, uh Councilmember Pittman third.

I'll be fourth.

We'll go to President Carico, fifth, and then any other council members that are here will go after that.

Okay.

Yes, sir.

Mr.

Teal.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Afternoon, Ms.

Cavey.

Good afternoon.

First, if you could, I'd like to talk about initially kind of how you became CEO.

And so I wanted to really talk about initially you were brought in as a liaison to the board.

Is that correct?

Yes, sir.

And you know when that was?

That was uh March 25th of 2024.

And what were your duties as a liaison to the board?

I was to look into OM expenses, remote work, and anything else the board had asked me to look into.

And was that um due to the departure of Jay Stowe?

No, sir.

Jay was still there.

Um CEO Jay Stowe was still there.

Okay.

Sorry, go ahead.

Yeah, it was because the board had concerns about OMN LOM expenses, about capital projects, five capital projects that had gone over 100 million dollars without board approval.

They were concerned about remote work.

They were concerned about some issues that showed up in the news that they were unaware of, like paying for alcohol at a Christmas party.

They were concerned about out-of-state leaders.

So they had concerns about the manner in which the CEO was operating JEA.

Yes, sir.

And how long were you uh the liaison to the board?

March 25th.

Until April 15th.

And what happened to uh to cause you to change from being the liaison to the board?

What happened to change is I guess Jay decided to resign, and we had found some issues that the board was unaware of, and Jay decided to resign.

And so you were named interim CEO at that point.

Okay.

And how long were you interim?

I was interim from April 15th until I believe September.

And in September you became the permanent CEO, correct?

Yes, sir.

And what was the process whereby you were selected permanent CEO?

Was there a nationwide search or did um did you just uh get offered the job?

I was told by then chair Mr.

Bobby Stein that he was going to nominate me as CEO.

Okay, so there was no other candidates that were considered no sir.

And did the board interview you?

Did you have uh well let me back up?

When when Jay Stowe got hired, uh there was a nationwide search uh and the board had selected several candidates uh and conducted interviews of those candidates, right?

Yes, okay, and but you did not have to go through that public interview process, correct?

No.

Were you interviewed by the board members at all?

I had worked with the board members in the past, five of the seven of them I had worked with when I came in in 2020 till 2021 with Paul McElroy and also Jay Stowe.

Now I was going to be nominated, it did not mean that I would be it automatically.

And so the board vetted you, right?

In terms of they had uh a discussion about you at uh a public meeting, is that correct?

I believe so.

And were you present during that meeting?

Yes, the reason why I guess uh answer me this.

Uh the since optics matter, um do you feel like the selection process was transparent?

That would be a board question.

Well, in your opinion, uh, as an advisor to the board, as a CEO, um, in your opinion, would that was that process transparent?

Yes.

I just have a quick follow-up.

Sure.

Councilmember Diamond, you're recognized.

Through the chair to Ms.

KB.

If there's no public meetings, except for that very last one, how how is that like a proper CEO process to hire somebody?

The board made the decision to nominate.

They could nominate anyone they wanted as interim CEO.

Mr.

Stein asked me, would I do it?

And he was going to nominate me, and I agreed.

Yeah, I get that.

I fully, and I and I don't blame you for the process.

You didn't get to choose it.

I'm I think what we're trying to get out here is there wasn't a single public meeting until you were nominated.

Is that right?

Nothing was public.

There's nothing out there that you could watch or see until it's decided that a nomination is in front of you and in front of the board.

Is that right?

It was done quickly, I'll say that.

Mostly because Jay was resigning and they needed an interim quickly.

I'd like to also add that anyone else could have nominated someone else as well.

I think the issue though is is that council member rudd, uh Pittman wants to jump in.

Ms.

KB, how are you?

One of the questions I wanted to ask, I know that process happened, but were you aware that another employee was interested in that position and did not get an opportunity to um interview or the board wasn't aware?

Were you aware that Ms.

Marshall wasn't what didn't she tell you she was interested in the position?

I did not know who would be interested or who would be nominated.

But did she tell you that she was interested in the position?

I don't recall a conversation like that.

I do recall I called her the night before to tell her I knew I was going to be nominated.

Okay.

And then two weeks later or a few weeks later, did she retire that you're aware of?

You don't you don't you know who Ms.

Marshall is, all right?

Absolutely.

Yes.

Okay, thank you.

Please continue, Mr.

Teal.

Mr.

Chair.

I think the the issue, I think is is that when I say transparency is that you never had to sit in a public meeting and answer questions about your qualifications uh for the board, correct?

I did not.

And prior to becoming the CEO at JEA, you had never supervised any employees before, correct?

Incorrect.

Okay, tell me tell me who you've supervised.

I started in JEA in 1983.

In the power engineering division, and then moved into our customer service area where I supervised all the key accounts, then moved into strategic partnerships and acquisitions.

Then I worked directly with the CEO.

Ms.

KB, you sent a text to Kurt Wilson on May 14th, 2024, where you said, just got another PRR on my experience and who reported me, which was no one.

You recall that?

No, I don't.

Okay.

Would it surprise you that you sent that text to Kurt Wilson?

No.

Okay.

So in this text, you're saying that there was a public records request.

You're telling Kurt that there was a public records request for whether you you had experience uh in terms of uh supervising and who reported you, and you answered that there was no one that was that supervised you, but today you're saying that you had supervisory experience in all those other aspects.

What I'm saying is I believe he's re I was referring to the very last position I held because I worked directly for the CEO and worked with everyone, but I had no direct reports on that last job.

Okay, so did you respond to the public records request that that outlined all of the experience that you just told us today?

I believe so.

Okay, can you uh would you be able to produce your response to that public records request?

I don't know.

I think so.

There was another text that you sent again to Kurt Wilson uh with regard to uh a Ben Becker story where he was questioning whether or not you met the requirements in the charter uh for having executive experience.

Do you remember that?

Not really.

Okay.

Describe for us what you would consider your executive experience.

I'll say that the qualifications required five years of experience and that I was vetted, I believe, by someone here as having met that, or the board thought I had met that, and the board is charged with hiring.

Well, in fact, they didn't say that you met the requirement.

They said you met the spirit of the requirement, right?

I don't recall that.

So if I had a text message between you and Kurt Wilson where you said that OGC said that you met the spirit of the requirement, would that surprise you?

I don't recall that text.

Why is it that you think that it wasn't opened up to any other applicants to apply for the CEO position?

I can't say.

I think that's the question for the board.

Did you ever raise it to the board that for transparency's sake it should be opened up to other applicants?

Once again, I'll say that they could have nominated board members could have nominated anyone else.

Well, in fact, board member Humphrey wanted to discuss putting you in as interim CEO on the day that Mr.

Stowe resigned, correct?

Did you repeat the question?

Did board member Humphrey want to discuss putting Ms.

Marshall in as the interim CEO on the day that Mr.

Stowe resigned?

I can't recall exactly.

I believe she said something to the effect of isn't a CAO COO normally put in that role.

So how quickly did you eliminate the COO position after you were put in place as CEO?

I don't recall.

Was it weeks?

Was it months?

Months, I believe, but I'm not certain.

And why did you eliminate that position?

Because I was putting into place a team that I thought we could work together and that had the skills and the performance and the mindset to go forward.

But even after you eliminated that position, you kept Ms.

Marshall on the payroll of JEA, correct?

I believe you are referring to those consulting agreements.

Those that, in my opinion, should not have been done because they, in my opinion, they violate Florida statute at Florida State Statute 215.

However, I took the advice of counsel and allowed it.

So without getting into what the advice of council was, because Mr.

Granite's about to jump in.

How many of these agreements are there that you're aware of?

Well, there's no more, I can tell you that.

There will be no more.

Yes, sir.

More than ten?

I don't believe, but I'm not certain.

Okay.

Mr.

Teal, can I have Mr.

Diamond jump in, please?

The chair to Ms.

Cavey.

How much?

During your tenure, have we been paying executives to either be consultants or just not to work?

What do you think that total amount is?

I couldn't say.

I mean, I'd have to look at the details.

There was only two that I recall.

So earlier we had Ms.

Mosier here, your HR director.

She said that at least two executives were kept on the payroll after they were essentially eliminated, and they were making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to do nothing under your leadership.

How can we be sure as a city council who's seeing these rates go up for the rest of the ratepayers out there that you aren't paying any more of these folks hundreds of thousands of dollars to do nothing?

I will not do it again.

And I didn't want to do it to begin with.

Help me out with that though.

You're the boss.

You're literally the CEO.

Like, and you didn't think it was legal, you didn't like it.

Why don't you just say no?

At the time, I took the advice of counsel.

I did.

They said it was legal, but you didn't like it.

I'm not asking what counsel said.

We're assuming the witness is taking the advice of counsel.

I'm curious why the why Miss Cavey just didn't say no, not on legal grounds, but just because you didn't like it.

They had been done in the past.

They had been done in the past, and once others see it, they want it.

And it was described to me as in lieu of possible litigation.

Yeah.

And this is what I want to get at.

This is essentially just an easy way to get rid of senior people so they don't cause a mess after the fact.

Is that fair?

I kind of need a verbal answer.

I wouldn't characterize it as that.

So uh you say help me understand why why keep these.

I mean, these folks have made millions of dollars of JEA.

They're getting pensions, they're getting all this money.

Now they're gone and not working, but we're still paying them.

Why?

As I said before, I took the advice of counsel.

All right.

Please continue, Mr.

Teal.

And by counsel you mean OGC?

Yes, sir.

What other chiefs have you let go?

David Emmanuel.

Renetta Marshall.

Laura Sheppis.

Is that it?

And Brad Kroll resigned.

And I'm not certain I got them all.

And why did you let Laura Sheppis go?

Actually, that was uh negotiated.

So I I'm not at liberty to discuss it.

Did she complain about her tr your treatment of her to other other folks, and that was the reason why she was let go?

Not to my knowledge.

Who did you replace her with?

That particular position was eliminated.

Eventually, Jody Brooks came in and we created a chief administrative officer.

Okay, and um did you post the position of chief administrative officer or was it just given to Jody Brooks?

I did not.

I directly hired Jody Brooks.

Why why did you not want to uh open it up for other applicants?

It's my prerogative to choose the leadership team.

I had worked with Jody and her knowledge, and I knew her and her skills, and I wanted Jody Brooks.

And why did you replace David Emmanuel?

I will simply say performance.

And I'd prefer not to discuss details of employees who aren't here or put them in a situation that's just unprofessional.

I don't want to do that.

Mr.

Teal, can I jump in just for a second?

This is a public utility, and I I've been saying that quite a bit over the last few weeks.

It bothers me that when there were positions that open up, particularly at senior levels or director levels, there's not an open process.

So people that have been there 10 or 15 years get a chance to apply, learn from an interview.

They might not get the job, but they they go through a process, they're interviewed, they learn from the interview, and gain considerable knowledge from that process.

Now, if this is a private company, I work for a private company for still do for 30 years.

What you describe happens all the time.

But can you understand the perception that that causes when you're hiring people without going through a process and giving other people a chance?

I'll just tell you that it is the prerogative of the CEO to pick their team, and it always has been, and it's been done routinely in the past as well.

I'm not the first.

We go through a process.

Um people can apply, and and I think particularly in any entity that's a public like like JEA, that's the process that should be used.

Mr.

Teal.

Mr.

Chair.

And why?

I think you already may have already answered this in response to Councilmember Pittman's question, but why was Renetta Marshall uh let go?

Once again, performance?

What about Victor Blackshear?

Is he let go?

No, sir.

Okay, was he demoted?

I I don't recall.

Was his duties reassigned?

Was he given different duties?

I can't I can't answer that, Jason.

And what about Wayne Young?

Wayne Young was um at JEA for quite some time, and eventually he um retired or was terminated.

I don't think he was terminated by Jody.

I had nothing to do with that.

And what about Pedro Melendez?

Pedro resigned.

So do you have any people of color as part of your senior leadership team?

Yes, sir.

Okay, who?

Dr.

Charles Morland.

And with regard to Dr.

Morland, uh, were you uh did anybody request that you fire Mr.

or Dr.

Morland?

No, sir.

In replacing all of those folks that left, did you have an open application process for any of those positions?

Yes, sir.

Which ones?

The Chief Customer Service Officer, and who which pos who held that position prior to I guess their replacement?

Miss Sheila Presley.

So in any of the other ones, did you have an open application process?

We promoted from within.

Okay, including, well, not obviously not Diane Moser.

Diane Moser, yes, sir, that's correct.

How how was Diane Moser um selected?

That was also a direct appointment.

And Kurt Wilson was hired as a direct appointment as well, correct?

Kurt was already at JEA and yes.

When you kept him on as your chief of staff, that was a direct appointment.

Yes.

Uh to fill the position that Renana Marshall had, correct?

That is correct.

We split the systems, electric and water.

And those were both direct appointments?

Yes.

Can you see how not opening up those positions would create a tension amongst the existing staff, or some may call it adding to a toxic work environment because people were not given an opportunity to be able to apply for those types of jobs?

As I said, it was my choice, and I put them in my prerogative, and I chose the team members just as people have done in the past, other CEOs.

And I understand that.

Perhaps.

Mr.

Teo, can I interrupt you right there?

Mr.

Diamond wants to jump in.

Um this is all great, but I think look, there's a lot of folks in the room, and there's well we've got a lot to do today.

So if you don't mind, I'm just gonna move us down the field here a little bit.

I'd like to just kind of get at a couple of things that I would really like to know about.

But let me let me let's do a favor for transparency and people watching online.

You very graciously told us that you've got hearing aids in that we provided for you just so everybody knows those are hearing aids.

People are texting me and asking me if you're getting answers from people just for so that they hear it from you on the record.

You're not hearing from anybody through that, right?

Councilman Diamond, I want to read you a statement that was in my opening, a sentence in my opening statement that I chose not to say.

And I want to assure Councilman Diamond that it isn't this isn't a two-way communication device.

Thank you.

Yes, sir.

I always find it so important just to nip some of these things in the bud because I will hear about it for years, and I'd rather not.

Okay.

Um earlier this month or earlier this year, there was what I would call a very uncomfortable board meeting.

It was, I think maybe one of the ugliest JEA board meetings I've ever seen.

It was unpleasant, I think.

That's just my opinion.

Um, but I think a lot of stuff must have led to that.

I think people would like to know when it comes to this toxic work environment and the management of JEA, kind of like what is leading up to these things.

So my first question is when did you first know that Rick Morales was kind of slated to be the next board chair?

I can't recall as part of the board.

I can't recall a date.

Can you get you?

I mean, was it like in 2026, 2025?

The process has it happens the same month every year, and I don't recall.

Okay.

Um at some point when uh you already knew that Mr.

Morales was going to be the kind of incoming board chair, assuming the executive slate was approved.

Uh you guys had a meeting where he conveyed to you, at least he said to the board that he conveyed to you that he had done some investigating on his own and he had heard bad things about your leadership.

Do you know what I'm talking about?

At the at the board meeting?

No, before the board meeting.

At some point, he said during that board meeting that he had met with you like weeks prior, and that you all had a conversation that he had gone and meet some chiefs at JEA and learned stuff that he didn't like and he wanted to talk to you about it.

Do you know what I'm talking about?

Yes, I do.

Okay.

When did that meeting happen?

Do you know?

That meeting happened on February the fifteenth, I believe.

Something like that.

And um, what did Mr.

Morales tell you?

Mr.

Morales texted me on a Sunday evening, and asked if I could come to his office.

He had some things he wanted to discuss.

And did you go to his office?

He said the next day, which was a holiday.

And I may have my dates wrong, sir.

So I said, any idea what this is?

And he said just some things I want to talk to you about in person.

So I said 3 30, and he said yes.

And how long was the meeting?

I couldn't say maybe about an hour.

And what did Mr.

Morales convey to you?

Mr.

Morales said that he was going he wanted to go in a different direction when he was board chair.

And that he had spoken to some people and was uh bus from the business community and some staff and would like me to step down at the next board meeting.

Did he say what the staff had said that made him feel that way?

He did not.

He didn't share anything except I believe the way he put it was, um, I manage up well but not down well, is what he said, but he would give me no details.

Did he tell you which staff it was?

He did not.

What did you tell him?

I said this is quite surprising.

Have you seen any of these behaviors in me before?

And he said no.

What behaviors are we talking about?

Well, treating people poorly.

And did you agree to resign at that meeting or indicate that you would step down?

I did not.

Okay.

Did you ever tell Mr.

Morales that you would step down?

I did not.

Okay.

At some point after that meeting, did you ever go to figure out who the staff was that had talked to Mr.

Morales?

Came out after the next board meeting.

What does that mean?

People were talking and they they said they was some discrepancy over what was said at the meeting, whether they went there or he came to them.

Okay.

I understand what you're saying.

I just want to go back to the other question.

Did you make any effort to figure out who Mr.

Morales had talked to?

It eventually came out.

Yeah, I I get it.

I'm not trying to trick you here.

I get that eventually you figured out that Kurt Wilson talked to him.

Rick Morales, that's my best guess.

But did you make any effort?

Did you ask anybody?

Did you text anybody?

Did you call anybody?

Did you ask friends?

Like, did you talk to Morales?

Did you ask any staff?

Did you talk to Mr.

Morales?

Before I meet went to meet with Mr.

Morales, I did text Kurt and say, did anything come up when you took uh Mr.

Morales to the H 2.0 facility?

And he said no.

I said, Well, I'm just checking because he's asked for a meeting.

I'm curious what it's about.

Okay.

Other than that text before the meeting with Mr.

Morales and kind of just finding out after the fact, did you make any effort to find out who had spoken with Mr.

Morales about you?

We talked about it in a meeting.

Who's we?

The entire leadership team.

And you asked them, did you speak to Mr.

Morales?

Actually, some of them came forward.

Did you ask them, though, if they spoke to Mr.

Morales?

We talked about it in the meeting.

Yeah, I get it.

This is a really easy question.

Did you ask?

Or did you just did someone else bring it up first?

I don't recall.

Okay.

Just so it's clear to you.

I've got 14 so far.

I don't recalls, I don't remember, and I can't say.

And it is only about 30 minutes into this.

So I'm gonna keep asking.

But what's gonna happen is we're gonna get granular and granular until we get answers.

And it's just such an unfortunate way to use everybody's time.

We're just trying this isn't criminal.

We're just trying to get out what's going on over there.

So did you at any point talk to Kurt Wilson after your meeting with Mr.

Morales about your meeting with Mr.

Morales?

I don't believe I did.

Okay.

At some point after your meeting with Mr.

Morales, did you find out that Kurt Wilson spoke to Mr.

Morales about you?

I had assumed it.

About when did you assume that that was true?

Probably right after.

Right after.

At some point you decided to eliminate Kurt Wilson's position.

When was that?

I had decided not to have a chief of staff.

And was looking for another opportunity for Mr.

Wilson.

Okay, but when did you make the decision to get rid of the position?

Oh.

Months ago.

Months before.

And when did you finally I assume you have to like submit paperwork or tell Ms.

Mosher or someone that that position doesn't exist?

Is that right?

We did not make any final plans.

We were just in discussion.

Does the chief of staff position exist today?

No, it does not.

When was it eliminated?

It was eliminated when Mr.

Wilson left.

Did he resign or was he fired?

He left.

This is an easy question.

I did not fire Mr.

Wilson.

Okay.

Was the position eliminated before he left or after he left?

After.

Okay.

All right.

Um the meeting you had with Mr.

Mr.

Morales on February 15th or 16th, somewhere in there, and then there's a February 24th board meeting that we were discussing, right?

Yes, sir.

Okay, so there's about uh, I don't know, a little less than 10 days between those two meetings.

How many board meeting members did you meet with or talk on the phone with after your meeting with Mr.

Morales and that meeting?

All of them.

All of them.

Who did you speak to first?

Do you remember?

My board chair.

And how did that meeting go?

What was said?

I called him and explained what had happened.

And what did he say?

He was pretty upset.

And then who did you talk to?

I don't remember the order.

Sure.

But I mean you talked to all of them.

Did you ever speak to Mr.

Morales again before that meeting?

Once.

Once.

Wait, let me let me think.

I texted him.

What did you text him?

I texted him.

Don't call Fackler, something to that effect.

What was that about?

When I left, he said he was going to call Fackler to see about the um what he would need to do.

Help me understand.

Uh I'm not getting much context to do what?

Like what did you understand him to mean about calling Mr.

Fackler?

He was looking into um a resignation or how to do something.

I wasn't quite sure.

So uh he was you guys were talking about his exit from JEA.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

All right.

Um I assume that you uh chatted with the new board chair, Mr.

Orinder, is that right?

Yes.

What did you say to him?

The same.

But I had been asked to resign.

By Mr.

Morales?

Yes.

Okay.

And then what was the response?

Surprised.

Did he say he supported you?

I don't recall that specifically.

I think the board members were just in shock that one board member would do something like that.

Without speaking to other board members.

Yeah, I'm tracking.

But my question, I guess, is uh when you were speaking, Mr.

Orinder, did at some point you being retained as in not leaving a CEO of JA get discussed.

Kind of a blur what we talked about.

Okay.

I assume you talked to Mr.

Baker also, correct?

Yes.

Did he uh say that he supported you staying as J E A CEO?

Again, surprise, that a board member would do something like that.

Again, that wasn't my question, though.

Did he say that he would support you staying as J E A CEO?

I can't recall exactly, but probably.

Okay.

And then you eventually spoke to all the board members.

Did you tell them that the other board members are in support of you staying as JEA CEO?

No, sir.

You didn't tell them that you were talking to the other ones?

Well, they may have assumed it because I'm required to do that.

Well, not required, but it's best practice to do that.

At some point, there's an executive slate, right?

That's got the upcoming vote for the next board meeting with chair and vice chair.

Is that right?

Yes.

And at some point the slate was withdrawn from the board uh the board agenda for that um 24th meeting, isn't that right?

Yes.

And you were the person who said that needs to get pulled, isn't that right?

No, sir.

I don't have that authority.

The board chair sets the agenda.

So the board chair pulled it?

Yes.

And did you talk to the board chair about pulling that slate?

I don't recall.

You don't remember literally the leadership of JEA is going to be changed, and you don't remember having discussion about that?

I don't.

Okay.

Um how did the board chair know to pull the slate?

That was his decision, and you would have to ask him.

You never, just so it's absolutely clear, you never talked to any member of the board about changing the slate.

I don't recall.

It was a crazy time.

Can I jump into the source just for a second?

Mr.

Morales indicated.

And I think this is fairly public that you agreed to resign and then called him back after you had spoken to your financial advisor, pension person, or some combination of that.

Is that correct?

I don't recall calling Mr.

Morales.

That's not what I said.

I said Mr.

Morales has commented publicly to my knowledge that you agreed to resign initially, and then either text him, I think you said you text him and said don't go to OGC, because I think his his intent was you in indicated you were going to resign.

He was gonna go to OGC to make the arrangements.

Then I I I don't I have not seen the text, but I it's been reported that you responded with um don't do anything, let me speak to my financial advisor, pension person, that kind of thing.

Is that correct?

That is that is okay, and then after speaking to that person, you changed your mind.

Is that is that a fair characterization?

No, sir.

I was not going to resign.

Okay, but you commented to him initially that you were.

No, sir.

I never definitively said I was going to resign.

He wanted me to resign at the next board meeting, which was on Tuesday.

We met on a Monday.

Go ahead, Mr.

Diamond.

Okay, and I feel like we're going around in circles.

I've got so many I don't remember, and I don't recall, so just let's see if we can get a straight answer to this.

I'm sorry, I I have to object.

Miss Kavey's testifying under oath.

Yeah.

And so I don't recall is the correct answer if it's truthful.

And so we shouldn't be intimating that that that's not an acceptance.

It's exactly what I would say.

If I were sitting next to my client, 100%.

But she's the CEO of JEA.

This is the most critical thing that's happened to JE in six years.

You think you'd remember the most important stuff that's going on.

And counsel that what's disturbing to me, I'm not an attorney, but we waited three weeks for preparation and everything else in order to get Miss Kavey here.

And I'm under the assumption when she does come with with all this preparation time that we're gonna get a lot of straight answers.

I'm frustrated by what Mr.

Diamond is saying as well.

Well, she's she's taking the oath.

Yep, I got it.

Okay, so through the chair to Ms.

Cavey.

Um, if you never told Mr.

Morales definitively, as you say, that you were going to resign.

What did you tell him about resignation?

That I could not resign.

Because it would hurt you financially or what?

Well, by that Tuesday.

Okay.

And did you tell him anything else other than that about resigning?

No.

At some point you've heard these allegations of a toxic work environment at JEA, correct?

Yes.

When was the first time you heard about these things?

When Mr.

Kevin Caraco, when um council chair Carico said it.

The news article that came out?

No, I believe it was February the 19th, that Thursday after the Monday that Mr.

Morales had asked me to resign.

So how did you find out then?

Mr.

Carico, okay, and forgive me.

Um counsel chair Carico.

He told you directly.

No, he had a he was on TV and had a yeah, that's what I mean, like in the news.

You found out in the news.

Okay.

Yes, sir.

I promise you, these aren't these aren't tricky.

Um you found out in the news.

What have you done since then to investigate whether or not there are problems at JEA of uh toxic leadership or of racism?

I went to HR and asked them had they had any complaints.

That's what you mean.

Is that all you did?

Yes.

Okay.

And at some point you all have agreed to do this.

Um, what do you call a survey of your employees that was agreed to do months ago?

Is that right?

We've been doing these surveys for decades since the last 90s, since the 90s, the late 90s.

Engagement surveys are surveys that you do to engage your employees to help plan for the future, to get them involved in the business, and to hear their opinions, and you take those surveys and develop action plans to go forward to improve in areas where you need to improve.

What's very common in large companies, really all companies.

So we have been planning this for probably since September, October, looking into it, but and going out to market to get a vendor to do it, a new vendor.

Yeah, and I think we can all agree, surveys are great.

Engaging employees is wonderful.

So we've got some early results on this one.

Um 47% of employees surveyed said they feel well informed about important decisions at JEA, 18% below similar utilities.

49% said they have confidence in JEA's chiefs, 23% below comparable utilities.

46% said directors, VPs, and chiefs understand what is really happening at JEA.

20% below comparable utilities.

Then there's a bunch of really nice ones where people are saying they love their job, they love helping Jacksonville through hurricanes.

It's it's lovely.

I think that that stuff is great.

But there's a there's a big pretty big gap, 20 points from comparable uh utilities where that seems JEA employees don't have as much faith in senior leadership.

How much of that do you take responsibility for?

I think the entire utility takes responsibility for it, and they're different in different areas.

So that's the overall.

When when I came into JEA, there was a work from where you work best policy.

So people did not have to come to the office.

Employees that were could not come to the office, so I think that caused some issues and probably influenced the survey, and I don't want to discount what employees said.

I'm happy that they were open and honest and felt comfortable enough to express their opinions, and I'll take them all serious.

We all do.

Okay, so how much of the 20% is because the work from home policy was changed versus actual problems with leadership?

I couldn't say.

Okay.

Um have you heard the allegations that there's a political bent to JEA and that it's politically influenced as part of the toxic work culture?

No.

Did you hear that there is an actual quote from your own survey to employees?

I don't trust the board or Vicky or at this point anyone at City Hall.

JEA isn't a political tool, it's a community service.

Have you heard that quote?

I think I read it.

What is your sense of political influence creating a toxic work culture at JEA?

I am not sure why that why that individual wrote that.

So I can't answer that.

Do you feel that political influence at JEA is affecting the toxic culture or the culture in any way?

First, I never bring politics into JEA.

I never have.

Me personally.

I'm speaking for me personally.

I've never volunteered for a political campaign.

I've never expressed my political views.

So I don't know why that comments there, and I'm not sure it's directed towards me.

Okay.

After uh you had a press conference here at City Hall, is that right?

I didn't have a press conference.

Did you attend a press conference at City Hall?

I did.

And the mayor was there?

She was.

Mayor supported you in staying in this role publicly, correct?

Yes.

Okay.

The board chair was there?

Yes.

Okay.

Is the mayor ever try to influence your decisions at JEA?

No.

Has the mayor ever asked you to not hire any contractor or not use any contract?

No.

Has Mike Weinstein ever tried to influence a decision of yours at JEA?

No.

Has Mike Weinstein ever characterized any contract in any way to you in relation to JEA?

Councilman, how is this related to the sick charge and the topics on Ms.

Kavey's subpoena?

Uh if you look at the sick charge, it is to get at toxic work culture.

Their own surveys are saying that part of the toxic work culture is political influence.

I'm trying to determine if political influence is affecting the culture of JEA.

I want to know if the chief administrative officer is contributing to that.

Is Katie can answer the question whether it's part of the charge or not?

Why would you not want to answer that question?

What do we have to hide?

I have nothing to hide.

Then answer the question.

Has Mike Weinstein ever told you to hire or not hire anyone?

Has he ever influenced a contract or the not using of a contract?

Mike Weinstein never talked to me about whether to use or not use a contract.

No one in City Hall has ever talked to you about a ballard contract.

Okay.

Councilman.

The Ballard contract was not part of the subjects listed in Ms.

Cavey's subpoena.

She's here prepared to testify about the subject.

Subjects that were noticed.

And she's willing to do that.

Ballard contract isn't part of the charge and wasn't fairly noticed as a subject of her subpoena.

It's a very simple question, Counselor.

It's part of the toxic culture that their own survey is coming back and feeding.

Counselor, I'm going to allow the questioning.

I think it's relevant.

I was, I ruled the other way last time, but I think this time it's very relevant to the discussion.

If I could be recognized, yes, Mr.

Fackler.

This is in addition to, is this on?

I never know these days.

Um beyond being beyond the charge uh question.

The other issue is this particular contract is the subject of a criminal investigation by the statewide prosecutor and the state attorney.

The agency does not know if it is the subject.

We do not know who is the subject of this.

So this is an extremely sensitive area with potential criminal liability to the agency and to individuals.

If I might respond, first of all, both those agencies have said we can continue with this investigation.

Secondly, Ms.

Cavey wants to take the fifth.

She's welcome to do it.

And to Mr.

Diamond through the chair.

I know the state attorney has mentioned that, the statewide prosecutor.

I have not seen any comment from the statewide prosecutor.

I've spoken to him personally.

He said, Go ahead.

I have spoken to him.

In addition, this is beyond Ms.

Cavey.

This is the agency itself which has received these subpoenas, which is under a criminal investigation.

So not only is the ballard not specifically mentioned, if a vendor contract is part of a toxic work culture, then everything is part of a toxic work culture, in which point there is no purpose to a charge memo.

The charge memo specifically states that it's related to allegations regarding racism and toxic workplace culture.

You're working so hard for the mayor again.

You're always working for the mayor.

I get it.

Wait a minute.

I would just want to answer.

Answer the question.

It's a simple question.

Please, Mr.

Carlucci.

You're not recognized.

And I wish you'd quit your banging and everything.

I told you when I would recognize you.

Decorum.

Decorum, Mr.

Cowell.

I know you want to have a big thing and get all mad.

Mr.

Ridiculous.

Ridiculous.

Unprofessional.

There are rules.

There are rules, Mr.

Carlos.

Mr.

Carlocci.

So on the poll on the point of whether this is related to the culture, this has nothing to do with the workplace culture at JEA.

If this is part of the workplace culture, then every vendor contract is subject to Mr.

Mr.

Read the quote from their own survey about culture, saying it's become political.

That's their own survey.

The employees have made this about the toxic culture, not me.

They're literally telling you.

And it's such an easy question.

Have they been influencing contracts at JEA?

It's a yes or no.

It's so easy.

Yeah, and that's beyond the charge.

It's not to revise the charge.

Alright, you just keep carrying the water.

Happy to revise the charge, but I believe it's beyond the bounds of the charge.

Thank you.

I'm I'm gonna go in for a couple for a few minutes, and I'll go back to you, Mr.

Teal, and then we'll see if Ms.

Pittman.

Well, you want to go after me?

Okay.

I want to talk about the talk to toxic culture for a minute because it's I think it's been mischaracterized in terms of this committee after that February 17th, 20th board meeting when when President Carico and there was a uh a mention if there were concerns about the CEO culture, whatever, you could go to HR, or you could go to the inspector general, or you could go to the uh human rights commission.

Those were the three areas that were mentioned at that board meeting.

President Carico soon thereafter talked about setting up a special committee.

I went to the inspector general before accepting this role.

He mentioned the capacity issue that I think we all want to get to the bottom of.

Was an appropriate thing to take a look at.

The president included it in this charge.

I would not have gotten involved if I did not think that it needed to be looked into, and that gets mischaracterized by the media very often, but that's why I got involved in this.

Let me talk about the uh capacity fee thing for a minute.

When did you first learn there was a capacity fee issue, Ms.

Cavey?

It's probably around well, 2024, late 2024.

Okay.

I'd heard that you were that you were made aware of it when you first became that's is that when you first became the CEO?

Around that time.

Well, I knew it was an issue.

I didn't know the details of the issue.

Okay.

But you never took it to the board, even when you became the CEO.

It was a problem that was being worked on.

There was no reason to take it to the board.

Okay.

We work on problems all day, every day.

I I understand, but a problem that could potentially goes back 20 or 30 years, and at that point, I hear the auditors now telling us around 25 million.

I've heard, you know, prior to that, 25 to 100 million dollars.

It's interesting that I've had phone calls over the last week or two from people saying it's a two billion dollar company, and you know, 25, 30, 100 million dollars is is not that significant to put all this time and effort into capacity fees, and I responded to that by saying, God, if if Walmart felt that way, they would let people steal a portion of their inventory, and that just the cost of doing business or Walgreen or anybody in my industry, people working in a pharmacy, take oh, just take some drugs home.

It's while we have cameras and everything else to prevent things like that from happening.

I think you should have brought it to the board as soon as you learned about it and made them aware of the issue that you were looking into it to try to get to the bottom of it.

But that's that's my opinion.

Uh and on the combined cycle, I am so pleased to hear that you will be streaming committee meetings and workshops in the future.

I uh my understanding it will stop when you became CEO, and I'm uh Jay used to do them all the time, and I'm glad to hear that you're restarting that.

The public deserves to sit at home and see these meetings as a public utility, never should have been stopped.

But in regard to the combined cycle, what disturbs me is it's a 1.5 billion dollar project, and yet the discussion at the board level was about 15 minutes because I went back and looked at it and have a transcript of it.

And my understanding is the questions that have come up about the approvals of the various agencies was all handled one-on-one with the board members and was not discussed at uh in a in a workshop or where the public could understand the pros and cons of this.

Can you respond to that?

Sir, there were multiple times we talked about the combined cycle with the Capitol Projects Committee and the board.

And one-on-one, hours and hours with staff that was working on that project.

None of it streamed.

I can't say that.

Some of the board meeting the board meetings are always streamed.

The only recollection I have of this being discussed at the board level was when it was approved.

That's disturbing to me.

It would be like us approving our two billion dollar budget with without going through budget hearings in the public and all those types of things.

Where all of this needs to be in the public, where the public can understand it and watch it from wherever they are, and not just recorded or minutes produced.

I feel very strongly about that.

I'm glad you're making changes because I think those changes will be positive for the citizens of Jackson of Jacksonville.

Ms.

Pittman, please go ahead.

And I didn't know if you knew of some of the issues that they were concerned about, the culture of the departments, um, and then I guess my first question to you before you brought new staff in.

Did you do an assessment of your leadership team before you brought the new individuals in?

And afterwards, can you share any information to me about that?

Can you explain to me what you mean by assessment, please?

Well, one there were new people brought in, and people who were currently working in the departments wanted an opportunity for mobility, and unfortunately, they did not get an they did not get an interview, or there were questions regarding certain areas that in terms of capacity that was needed.

And so I guess my concern is they did not get an opportunity, they shared what the frustrating culture was like in some of the divisions, and I just want to know if you had an opportunity to do an assessment of what you needed.

I know you mentioned earlier in your conversation that you could hire anybody that you wanted to, but before, but I'm just saying before that, did you get an opportunity to assess areas in your departments to see if they were interested in openings that you had coming up?

As I said before, I direct appointed, and I didn't, I did not go down deep in the organization.

Okay.

I'm I will tell you, Ms.

Pittman, when you read those letters, I believe when Diane Moser was here, I immediately went to OGC and said, I want this looked into.

Okay.

Immediately.

Okay.

And once once you looked into that, was there anything done because at that time Miss Mosier was in place, right?

Since you appointed Miss Mrs.

Mosier, once she was in place, did she do a deep dive of what was needed in the departments?

We're currently doing a workforce analysis across the whole JEA to see if we have enough people or too many people in certain areas.

That's going to take quite some time.

So that is going on right now.

Okay, but I I guess I'm asking specifically because there were issues before I guess you got to the entire analysis.

Did you do or did you have Ms.

Mosier do a deep dive in those departments that needed help and needed resources that did not get it?

I would not have known about that, and the chiefs manage their own areas.

Okay.

Did Ms.

Mosier ever come to you and tell you that there were issues in the departments?

Were you aware of for from months these issues were going on?

Recently, yes.

Not months.

You say you found out about some of the issues when there was a press conference, correct?

Did you know before the press conference that these issues were going on?

I don't see the connection there.

I'm sorry.

I'm getting a little disappointed because I understood that there were issues that were brought to Mrs.

Mosier.

Are you telling me those issues that the employees were concerned about?

They never brought them to you.

You didn't know anything about what was going on?

Recently, yes.

Before recently, you didn't know anything that was going on.

Not in detail, I did not.

Okay.

And are all your departments up in terms of staff in each of those areas?

Payroll, are those areas up to stuff with the number of employees that that they need to work to do the work?

That is up to Ms.

Moser to decide.

Okay.

I don't want to ask the question again.

You mentioned that you did not know that Ms.

Marshall was interested in the position.

Can you tell me why she was she retired, but she really didn't want to retire?

Did you know that?

She didn't retire.

Her position was eliminated.

And why did you eliminate that position?

I answered the question before.

Okay, answer it again.

Due to performance, and my decision on who was going to be on the leadership team, my leadership team.

And how long was Ms.

Marshall there?

Work for JE?

How long did she work?

Do you know?

I I want to say three or four years during that time.

Three or four years.

She had been at JEA prior.

Right.

And and how long did she work JA before then?

I do not know.

Were you ever in a meeting and you said make JEA great again?

I know you've heard this before, but did you know that because you said that it was hurtful to some of the African American um staff that was in that meeting?

I don't recall a meeting saying that.

You don't?

No, ma'am.

I may have, but I don't recall it at all.

And I don't see how that would be that's just a phrase.

Well, just sensitivity and working with African Americans, and I'm just I'm asking because those were some of the questions that individuals were concerned about and how staff were being treating African Americans were being treated in the departments.

But if you don't know about what's going on, I'm I'm kind of taken back a little bit because a lot of them have had several people, even folks that have left JEA to just talk about the the environment, the work environment.

Um Mr.

Brad Cole, is that his last name?

Corole?

Yes, yes.

Did he retire or resign?

What was his situation?

He took another job.

He took another job, and he didn't want to be vested before there was a was there every ever any conversation about him being vested?

I don't you don't recall?

No, ma'am.

Okay.

Would you do something different?

With respect to the staff?

No.

You would do the same thing.

Yes, ma'am.

Would you change anything now that you know some of the issues in the cultural experiences?

Would you have more conversation, not only with your leadership team, but the lair below Ms.

Mosier?

Yes or no?

Repeat the question.

If you had an opportunity to dive deeper to talk to the staff of what was needed or an opportunity for up upper mobility, would you do it?

Yes or no?

I wouldn't change what I've done.

You would not change.

No, ma'am.

I have another question regarding Ms.

Ross.

I understand that you did not work, didn't want to work with Miss Ross anymore.

Is can you can you share why?

I'm not sure why you're asking that or where you got.

I will tell you why I'm asking it when you asked the question.

Did you decide that you did not want to work with Mrs.

Ross anymore?

I think there were conflicts.

Can you just share?

Maybe share about what some of the conflicts were response time, communications.

Communications about what?

Lawsuits.

I'm sorry.

Any litigation or stuff going on in her area at general counsel?

I feel like based on information that I've received, I didn't go out and ask.

And they shared with me about the culture issues.

Of course, I shared with our president, and a lot of them were afraid to talk because they felt like they were going to be retaliated against.

And so with you being the CEO and hiring your leadership team that those individuals, and I'm speaking particularly of Ms.

Mosier, would assist.

There was one individuals that was walked out who was African American.

The other white um employees that worked, they'd never been, they'd never been walked out.

So that was an issue.

I'm just sharing.

I don't know.

I don't work there.

I'm just sharing with you some of the issues that was a concern.

And so I was just, you know, I'm just concerned.

Most of the answers that I heard um today was basically you couldn't recall.

And so I just wanted to bring those issues up to you to see if you were aware of them.

Um our last meeting, you heard that most of the employees, if they were reprimanded about something, is that they would go to Mr.

Moreland.

And Diane said she's only seen I think one or two people, but the rest of the employees would go to him.

Were you aware of that as well?

I'm not sure what you're referring to.

I'm finished.

Okay.

Thank you, Ms.

Mimi.

Mentioned uh president elect uh Howland joined us a few minutes ago and I forgot to to do that.

Uh Mr.

Teal, and then I'm gonna go back to Mr.

Diamond after you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Ms.

KB, you testified that you found out about the capacity fees issue and you said late 2024.

Is that right?

Somewhere around there.

Uh I'm looking at a text that you sent to me even earlier.

I was aware there was an issue.

I didn't know the details.

Okay.

I was aware that there was an issue for sure.

How were you made aware that there was an issue?

Just in general, it was um discussed and there was a team looking at it.

And what was the issue that you were made aware of?

What did you understand the issue to be?

That there was a discussion and a discrepancy with Mayo Clinic on additional capacity fees.

And what was your understanding as to what your staff was doing to review that situation?

Well, I wasn't involved in the details, but I know that they were looking at additional capacity fees and it was very complicated, and they had been looking into it for quite some time, years.

And did you ever become involved in the details of it?

Not until September 5th, I think I was sent some things on um uh line extension agreement, cost recovery agreement.

And that was September 5th of 2025?

No, I had that earlier.

Jody, um, I was aware of the issue and and we discussed it on a on a peripheral peripheral um, you know, issues on updates when I would meet with people, but I was not involved in the details, it was some problem that a group of people were looking into and trying to solve.

Right, and I guess my question was is when did you I guess let me back up.

Did you become involved in the details of it?

September 5th, we held a meeting.

I was presented with uh a demand letter of September 5th of what year?

Um 25.

Okay.

So prior to September 5th of 2025.

Well, the demand letter was given, I think the third, I'm not I'm not clear on the date.

Okay.

And you're talking about the demand letter that um that OGC prepared to try and recover the back capacity fees that were up by Mayo Clinic.

Yes.

So when you were brought up to speed, I guess, in terms of that capacity the the demand letter, were you educated in terms of of the complexities uh that were involved in the calculating of those capacity fees?

I knew that it had been very difficult.

I knew that it was difficult in many ways because of the lack of data.

Because of the discrepancy with Mayo Clinic, thinking that they had the right to 1.1 million gallons day.

Or and they and we disagree with that.

And you disagreed with it because OGC and other lawyers working on behalf of JEA researched it and were advising that Mayo Clinic was incorrect.

Is that right?

So I'm gonna instruct Ms.

Ms.

Cavey not to answer questions that reveal verbal advice that was given by her attorneys.

If you're talking about any written documents, that's she can comment on those.

Oh I am talking about written documents.

Uh and so Ms.

Cave, you're aware of you said the demand letter, right?

That was prepared in um, I think the date on it is September 3rd of 2025, uh, and that was prepared by or well, the signature on it is Regina Ross.

Are you familiar with that letter?

Yes, okay, and in that letter it details why uh legally um JEA doesn't agree with Mayo Clinic's uh position in terms of whether or not they owe the capacity fees.

Is that right?

I'd have to read the letter again.

I think we disagreed on the assertion about cost recovery, the cost recovery agreement, but I'd have to read it, sir.

Well, let me skip to the end.

It says in the conclusion, when considered in the context of the fees and charges that were assessed at the time of the execution, the agreement is best understood to exempt Mayo from paying special fees and charges for water and or sewer service like cost recovery fees, but not the type of ordinary fees and charges normally assessed throughout the system like capacity charges.

Further, a broad exemption from such fees and charges would not be consistent with the stated purpose of the agreement or the relatively limited consideration exchanged in support thereof.

So doesn't that say that the legal conclusion is is that yes, some things were exempted, but not capacity fees?

It does not address the fact that a lot of those the numbers were unsure, and there had been several iterations, and I asked for details on that, and that's why we had the meeting on the fifth, so who arranged the meeting that you had with Mayo Clinic later in September?

I did.

And what was the purpose of that meeting?

To go and meet talk with the CEO on the CAO, because I did not think they had been engaged, and because I was told that they were lawyering up for a potential lawsuit, and I was told that Mayo was not willing to share data with us, which I found hard to believe.

And I wanted to go and talk to them and explain to them that that cost recovery agreement does not exempt them, or does not guarantee them 1.1 million gallons of water?

And is it your understanding from that meeting that well you said that you went into that meeting because in part that you thought that the CEO wasn't engaged or hadn't yet been engaged in that?

Is that in fact true?

Did you discover that the CEO hadn't been involved?

Not in great detail.

Okay.

And well, who is the CEO?

Dr.

Kent Thiel.

Okay, so Dr.

Thiel was already aware of the issue, correct?

Not in great detail.

Okay.

Are you aware of a text messages exchanged between Steve Debenow, who was representing Mayo Clinic and Jody Brooks from November of 2024?

I became aware of it when you read it.

Okay, and so when Mr.

Divinau says that they wanted to get the issue resolved without involving the CEO and the board.

I do not believe so.

I believe it was Mayo, but I can't say for certain.

But yet what you're saying is is that the CEO of Mayo was involved.

Involved in a deep level, no, he was not.

But you can't say that the reference wasn't to the CEO of JEA and the board of JEA, can you?

I don't believe it was.

Did you have a chance to watch Jody Brooks' testimony before this special investigative committee?

Yes.

So you're aware that Jody testified that she really didn't have a whole lot of understanding or detail about the capacity fee issue as well, right?

She was involved in it, but she got involved after Rainetta Marshall left, correct?

I don't know when she got involved, but yes, she was involved.

Okay.

Well, she said she got involved after Rainata left.

Okay.

Uh and so you're going over to Mayo Clinic and meet with the CEO in order to try and resolve this very complicated, complex issue where there's disagreement between their lawyers and JEA's lawyers.

Why did you not bring anybody with you that actually understood the issues?

I went to talk to the CEO and the CAO to explain to them that that cost recovery agreement was not applicable to the amount of capacity.

And in fact, that position was supported by your staff, right?

Didn't they weren't they pretty universal on it as far as equity and fairness for the other regulated individuals that uh Mayo clinics should have to pay their capacity fees?

I'll tell you this are additional capacity fees, not capacity fees.

I'll also tell you that we found out that there is not a way to calculate these that makes it easy.

You don't have the data that you need, numbers were all over the place.

We didn't have a policy in place or a procedure in place at all, and I don't think there was a defensible position for us to demand from Mayo when the numbers kept changing.

Well, but the demand letter that you said that you reviewed had a number in it, right?

It demanded 12,327,390.46 cents.

It seems like that's an exact number.

So I'm confused when you say that you had concerns about collecting from Mayo when then there there wasn't a number that could be calculated.

I'm not certain that letter was ever sent.

Well, I'm not saying it was, but what I'm saying is that a demand letter that you met in, met with your your your in-house folks in early September, included a number of twelve million three hundred and twenty-seven thousand one hundred and or three hundred ninety dollars and forty-six cents.

But some you so that there was the ability to calculate.

Well, that number kept changing.

I understand that, but then clarify for me.

Why then did you prepare or have prepared a letter to Mayo Clinic dated September 15th when you're saying thank you for the opportunity to meet last week to discuss a resolution of the water and wastewater capacity charge matter between JEA and Mayo Clinic?

So you met the week prior to sometime the week prior of September 15th, and in that letter, you you say we came to an agreement, and the agreement was to resolve this disagreement and prevent legal action.

So this letter was prepared to prevent legal action.

JEA has offered the following.

So JEA offered to wipe clean the slate of all capacity fees that Mayo Clinic owed between 1995 and their increase by some, I've read documents 387% above their capacity fees that they were assessed in 1995, when your tariff says if you go 20% above, you pay the difference.

So why does the CEO and the CAO who have limited experience in the capacity fee issue go meet with Mayo Clinic and come to an agreement where, not like you said, which was, hey, we we think that you owe us this money, but the one that you document is to memorialize the agreement is to wipe the slate clean.

How do you get from the position advocated by your staff of for fairness for equity to make sure that the the other ratepayers don't cover the expenses that are caused by Mayo Clinic, that they should be paying under our tariff rules to now say we're wiping the slate clean?

Where was your authority to do that?

We don't we did not have definitive documents on what they paid for anywhere.

Anywhere.

But you your own data suggests that they increased capacity by 387% over the course of five four different increases that should have triggered the collection of the tariffs under those circumstances.

Four separate 20% increases, cumulatively over 387% since their initial 1995 calculation.

But yet you're gonna go and you're gonna wipe the slate clean in this agreement that you came to with Mayo Clinic.

Where was your legal authority to do that?

I have a delegation of authority.

Can Ms.

Cavey please finish her answer?

Sure.

We did not have definitive information to take care of this issue, period.

My question was where was your legal authority to do that?

I have a delegation of authority from the board of directors.

And that delegation of authority from the board of directors only goes up to a million dollars, right?

No, sir.

Okay, explain to me why.

That delegation is for litigation.

And and your letter says this is to resolve to prevent legal action.

Prevent.

So your interpretation of your delegation is that it only applies if a lawsuit's been filed, not to prevent litigation from being filed.

No.

I'm delegated up to $50 million.

We make decisions all the time.

What would have been the effect of resolving this Mayo clinic issue on the rest of the regulated community that has exceeded their 20% capacity?

First of all, at the time, we thought this was the only one, the only one that we were trying to solve.

Well, that's actually not true, right?

Because there's at least three other instances where JEA has gone after, including UF Health, including uh bottling company, including a retirement community, where they have exceeded their 20%, and JEA has had to go back and recover those.

So JEA was aware of other people.

I was not aware, and I don't believe Miss Brooks was either when we first went to Mayo.

I became we can become aware of that.

We became aware that this was a bigger issue from asking questions.

And then that's when we put the brakes.

I said stop everything.

This has been all over the place for years.

It's a legacy issue.

We cannot go forward with anything.

We have to treat all of our customers the same.

It totally flipped the script, and everything was stopped.

So nothing ever went forward.

So you have to treat all of your customers the same.

So you were going to be prepared to wipe the slate clean for all of your customers because you didn't even know whether there were the other ones or not.

We can't.

That's the point.

And you were going to do it without board authority.

This let's don't talk over each other, sir.

So you were going to do this all without board authority.

Without without bringing it to the board.

I do this all the time.

We do we delegate throughout.

If we took every single thing to the board, and first of all, it was not even done.

This was in process.

Nothing was ever completed.

It was stopped and halted.

And it was stopped and halted because the general counsel Michael Fackler told you to rescind the offer, didn't he?

No.

Why was it stopped or halted?

Because we started finding out this is a bigger problem.

And nobody had asked the questions.

And nobody had looked at it in a deeper level, period, until we started asking a lot of questions.

And it had been languishing and not paid attention to for years.

And when it was discovered that this was a bigger issue, we had to treat it completely different, completely.

Can I get Mr.

Diamond to jump in?

Sure.

There we go.

I just have a couple of wrap-ups, not on capacity fees.

Actually, just actually I do have some on capacity fees real fast here.

But did you, Ms.

KB eventually make a deal with Mayo on the capacity fee issue?

No.

No deal was ever.

I rescinded this offer.

Once we found out there were more, much more, we thought we didn't know.

We did not have a handle on it at all.

I'm tracking, I'm trying to wrap this piece up.

What is the current status of the negotiations of the various parties on the capacity fee?

There are no negotiations.

How are we going to resolve this?

Like there's an issue out there.

We have a cons a consultant, a legal lawyer who also has water experience involved.

And this is a big big issue to resolve.

Calculating these things and coming up with a procedure and a policy is complicated.

It is beyond complicated.

Legally, do you have the right to go back?

Do we have the records?

We don't.

We do not have records on what people paid, definitive defensible records on what people paid for capacity fees at all.

In the last couple of years, we tied together our SAGE's system with our billing system so that we can capture that.

And when when you say capacity fees, I think the more important number to capture is how much how many gallons are allocated, gallons per day are allocated, not the dollar amounts, because the amounts charged change.

That makes it complicated too.

So we stopped everything because that changed everything.

Got to okay.

Nothing is going on.

I just want to make it very clear that nothing is going on.

We knew that this was a big problem and had to be looked at, and once this policy is in place, the terrorists might have to change.

A lot of stuff is going to have to change, and it's not going to happen quickly, Council in Salem.

It will not be quickly.

This is very complicated.

I don't think anybody disagrees with you.

And the more I looked into it, the more I was like, wow, I'm really glad I'm not a lawyer at JEA.

But um I do think you could appreciate uh that, and the board is here too, that this is one of those things that I think at some point when there's resolutions coming, it really needs to be a transparent process.

Hopefully, that the board has out there and has extensive meetings to explain to the public that nobody's getting a special deal, especially as you keep raising rates, and so people, you know, it's hurting people on the street, and they don't want to feel like you know the billionaire company down the road is getting a sweetheart deal, right?

You get that.

It will be now because so much information got out that was not accurate, and now it becomes an issue for JEA and their public image, and that will be brought to back to the board 100%.

And it's a great example of how you really have to have great management, right?

So that we don't lose records, so that we don't have these types of gnawing issues that gain over 20 years.

Forgive me.

The records did not come over from the city, or we couldn't find them.

A lot of these go back decades, decades.

Yeah, I wasn't blaming you to be clear.

And we changed billing systems.

Somehow a decision was made to take out the allocated capacity numbers from the billing system.

So you lost those.

When JEA moved into the new headquarters, they decided to get rid of paper records.

So it was I just want to make I want to make one comment here, and I said this to Miss Brooks.

You can only be held accountable from when you find out the problem.

When you become CEO, it is it is incumbent upon you or any CEO that I've watched.

What are the issues that I need to know about?

And what do I need to make sure my board is aware of so I don't get blamed for this going forward?

That's what I do.

Whenever I walk into a new operation in my business, that's what's critical to me.

Mr.

Diamond.

Yeah, I'm just got a couple of wrap-ups.

Um, I usually ask this kind of thing at the beginning of the deposition.

I don't think I've ever done it here before, but I just want to be fair, which is say, is there any reason at all that you couldn't testify today, or any reason why, under the weather, anything why you can't testify truthfully today.

Pretty straightforward question.

I don't understand why you would ask that question.

I'll be candid with you.

There's a lot of I don't remember, I don't know's.

When I hear that in the deposition, I typically say, I just want to make sure you're feeling okay, that there's no reason why you can't testify truthfully here.

Is that fair?

I think it's fair.

Okay.

That was it.

Uh last question.

Um, we've talked to some of the other employees at JEA.

Can I just say I'm under oath?

I'm the only person in the room under oath.

And I want to be very careful.

If I don't know or if I don't recall, I'm gonna say it.

Sure.

Absolutely.

But look, people go under oath every day.

You know, I always tell my clients tell the truth, it can't go wrong.

So um, my uh, I think this is my last question is uh how much are you spending on consultants who are doing PR right now for JEA?

PR?

Yeah, public relations, you know, these folks are trying to shape the coverage for you all.

Like I would what's the question?

How much are you spending on all that?

You're using ratepayer money to spend for JEA.

How much are you spending on it?

We brought in our old our retired public information officer, Miss Jerry.

She was Jerry Boyce, now she's Jerry McKenzie, to help out in crisis management.

And then you fired another firm too.

We also brought on a consulting firm, John Bachman, who I think you know.

Yeah, and Matt Gowner, me too.

They had helped us with training for media relations when I first came in and did an excellent job.

When all this capacity fee issue, toxic work environment issues, and all that came up, the board said, several members of the board, you need a crisis management group to come in.

Our comms team couldn't handle their day-to-day jobs, and this most companies use crisis management.

I want you to know that there was a contract with a crisis management firm when I first came in that had been in place since 2021.

The firm was Tucker Hall.

I canceled the contract, but they had paid in retainers $381,000, which was, in my opinion, ridiculous.

And we could bring in someone on an as needed basis when we needed them.

I can't tell you how often that contract was used, but it was one of the many that we looked at when I looked at when I first came in.

So in the past, there was a lot of money spent for crisis management.

We brought in a few people for a short period of time to take the burden off of our comms team because it was too much to keep up with.

And then we'll bring up Regina Ross.

Do you feel that Ms.

Mosier is qualified for the position that she's in right now?

Absolutely.

And why do you feel that?

She has 30 years experience here at the city.

She has been almost 30.

She has been working in HR her whole career.

And I definitely think she's qualified.

Okay.

And I just want to ask this question one more time.

You said prior to today, you had never heard, or you said just a few weeks ago, you'd never heard that there were issues in the departments.

And Miss Mosier has never brought any issues to you.

Can you define issues?

Issues regarding cultural issues with staff.

Can you explain?

Well, there have been promotions made internally that I was told, I don't know this for sure, that staff were interested in, and they never got an opportunity for an interview.

There were concerns about internal controls that they needed answers to or support to, and they never got the support, but other organizations that were ran by white, and I'm just saying this white management that got the support that the African Americans staff did not get.

Immediately.

And what was the investigation?

What happened?

What did they tell you?

Well anything that the OGC said to Ms.

Cavey would be attorney client privilege, and she's not at liberty to disclose communications to and from her attorneys.

I'm just gonna be honest today, Miss Kavey.

I'm I'm very disappointed in some of your answers.

Um the fact that you all did a survey, but that was an entire survey of the, you know, over 200 to 2,000 people that you have.

Um not just the lead what you needed to do was to dig dig deep with the leadership.

Um I have this um chart, staff chart, and I see very few African Americans on this sheet.

I understand that um there was a person who is in DEI who was promote uh demoted to something else, and I just today I don't feel like I got what I needed to feel comfortable and that things are gonna change.

That's why I ask you, you know, now that you know everything, um, what would you do differently?

Um your leadership team is is your front team.

That's the front of the house that gets gets it done.

And your your employees are feeling burnt out, they're feeling not supported.

They feel like they can't come and talk to you because they would be retaliated.

The person that they have to go through is a person that the one that's giving them a hard time, and so I don't I don't understand that you not know about I'm a CEO of a of a company and I know what's going on, regardless.

I have management, but at the end of the day, I know what's going on.

I don't have to do all the work, but as a CEO, I think it's important that your staff is giving you information or information if you need it to take to your board, because that's the way it works.

We can't do everything, but we hire people to keep us informed.

So if something happens, you do know at least what's going on.

You know, even with you talking about mail, the last meeting that we had, I wanted to know about the um the account executive.

What was that person doing?

How did y'all get to this point?

And you being the CEO, you should know all of that, and so I'm I'm a bit taken back, and JEA is our most valuable asset that the city has.

And for you not not to know somebody's questions, I I just felt I just never want to ask anymore.

Because of what I heard here today.

I respect you as a leader, you know, in this community, but when it comes down to working with people, that's that's who I believe in.

There, they got your back, but you need to have their back, and you need to have people in place that they're not afraid to talk to.

So that that's my only concern, and again, I'll say my reasoning for being here because I care about people because what they say, it matters, and it should matter to you.

It should matter to your leadership team.

If something is going down, I'm not saying you can fix everything, but you should have a plan to work toward.

Yes, ma'am.

100%.

Do you have any comments?

Yeah, I don't have any specific questions for um for Ms.

Cavey, but you know, this might be the last time on the microphone that I get to address you guys as a committee.

I'm not gonna be able to stay too too much longer.

Um so I want to thank you for the work that you've been doing.

There's a lot of misinformation about what this committee is doing, people trying to weaponize it and say that you guys are up here just being a bunch of bullies.

You're just trying to get to the truth.

That's all we're trying to do.

Just trying to ask questions in uh protection of the people's utility, which is JEA.

So I thank you for it.

You know, and to the next president if he chooses to let you guys wrap up, or if or if this is the last time you meet, you know, I look forward to the report on what comes out and if there's any legislative changes or uh I know there's another survey that we don't have the results to yet, so there might be some meat left on the bone, if you will, but uh I do want to thank all of you for for working hard and and spending your extra time on the research and coming down here and doing the work for the citizens of this city.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

President.

Councilmember Carlucci.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman or Mr.

Chairman.

Um my apologies, I suppose, for interrupting earlier.

My frustration just got the best of me.

Um, apology accepted.

I um I sat here and I watched like interrogation going on, an interrogation going on by Jason Teal with a council secretary plaque in front of him.

That doesn't feel right to me.

I'm gonna say a few things back because when we point our fingers, there's three or four others that point right back at us.

So our council leadership uh personnel committee, I guess, picked her own legal counsel, which was Jason Teal, my friend, very qualified.

Uh not sure if there was a search done.

Maybe there was, but I don't know of one.

Personnel committee, I think picked a law firm to count uh to handle some council business, Byrne Foreman.

I don't know if there was an RFP done.

Uh to do the investigation of telehealth, telescope, and uh to help my son uh over in Tallahassee, which I'm happy to say that my son paid that money back.

So he wouldn't have so the city didn't cut it, it didn't cost the city for any money to help my boy.

Um perhaps other legal fees that I'm unaware of, and all of this without a council vote or council notification, that's not transparency.

And we're up here, you know, on our high horse talking about transparency.

Been two hours for me to have a chance to talk, to speak, and what the other thing is we talk about we're just assuming there's a toxic work environment at JEA, but then I look at the I look at the uh survey, I don't see that.

What I do see is that Ms.

Kavey is probably at 47 percent, which by the way, Miss Kavey, you're about 20% higher than most of the council members up here in terms of popularity.

But what I am going to share is that sure, she's got some work to do with her employees.

I think she knows that.

I'm not sure I know of any CEO that doesn't have work to do with their employees because they're the ones that have to make tough decisions, and they've got a she has worked with three of the best CEOs that JEA's ever had.

So it's not like she hasn't been trained by the best and work for the best.

The comment that was on the survey by the gentleman who said he didn't want the GEA used as a tool, a political tool.

He said he didn't want the JEA and their people uh being used, and he didn't trust them.

And he said he didn't trust the people in City Hall either.

And we're talking about him and and saying he didn't trust the JE.

Well he didn't trust us either.

So let's just get that straight.

And I'm sitting here and I'm listening to all this interrogation going on, and I'm thinking this ain't getting us nowhere, except that Mr.

Peterson, Mr.

Parks, are sitting here wasting their time when they could be spending this two hours in their offices, wherever they are up here, trying to figure out and help with this water issue, but they're not doing anything down here.

I think they may have somebody Phil may have spoken for five minutes, and it just feels to be not everybody on this committee, but maybe a couple, are using this as a political weapon, and I don't like the attitude and I don't like the spirit by which it's coming from this committee, and that's why I've been critical of it.

The chairman is supposed to be Mr.

Salem, an honest broker.

I don't think that's been done here.

You're my friend, and I hate to say that, but I've seen a lot of committees run for many years.

It wasn't done that way with the telehealth and telescope.

All these allegations are made, but nothing to back them up.

And they save money.

You can go on with the rest of this committee.

But I just got to get that out.

I don't know where all this is leading to.

But I know one thing, I think the JEA, which is an independent authority, they have a board that is made up of smart business and civic leaders, and they know how to handle this stuff.

And if we let them do their job, they will do it.

And if we have concerns with anything that's going over there, we can take it to them and share it with them, and I believe they will address it.

These are good people.

So some of the things that we accuse them of not being transparent of, we haven't been transparent of ourselves, and I have sat back and watched it, but there's not much I can say or does I'm nowhere close to being in the middle of it.

I'm back there in the back of the offices, and which is not too bad, but um, I don't know, all I gotta say is um I'm looking for a better day, and I'm gonna end with this, and it's gonna be tough, but I'm gonna say it.

If there's if there's a toxic relay, if there's a toxic environment anywhere, it is in city council's uh hallways, that's where it's toxic.

Maybe not with y'all, but with a lot of people on the council, it's toxic, and we need to look at our own uh we need to look at our own home and clean it up.

I'm glad we got that opportunity coming.

Thank you.

Yeah, thank you, Mr.

Chair.

I have a lot to consider before Friday.

I've watched or attended all the SE SIC proceedings.

Um, I've spoken with most JEA board members and several community leaders on both sides of this issue.

I mentioned Friday because on Friday morning, I'll issue a memo regarding the future of this SIC committee.

And any unresolved issues left to investigate with respect to JEA.

You'll see that memo Friday morning.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Um Ms.

Cavey, just to wrap up, do you the other survey, and that may be a bad term that the lawyer is conducting within JEA, can you do you have a completion date for that?

May I have a moment to explain that?

Please.

It's an investigation.

Right.

A fact-based fact-finding investigation.

And I think there's been a lot of um confusion over what that is and how it started.

We use a third-party vendor for an ethics hotline that is anonymous.

When Mr.

Wilson spoke at our board, staff immediately started an investigation of me.

That's our internal process.

And that's the way it's supposed to be.

And they are doing an intense fact-finding interview process, and I don't know anything about it or when it's going to happen, but it is not an opinion-based survey.

This is a real investigation, and I welcome it, sir.

And they're talking to individual employees as I understand it.

I believe at the um at Diane's committee meeting, you said you actually had the complaint.

Pardon me, I'm sorry, I missed the last comment.

I thought that you said you actually had the complaint, which surprised me.

I had a complaint.

No, you had the complaint that was given.

No, I I put a public records request in to the complaint that apparently that came in that triggered this, which was redacted to a large extent.

So it was very hard to determine what exactly.

But I guess my question is who would know when that's going to be completed that those individual interviews and when that will go to the board.

No, no.

Um it would be probably OGC is coordinating that for the board.

Okay.

As I said, I'm not involved at all, and I don't know anything.

That's why I was quite surprised when you said you had the complaint.

The one complaint that came into the hotline right after the board meeting.

Yes, I do.

Go ahead.

Through the chair.

At this time, can you state your name and your time?

Yes, sir.

Christy Gavin, I'm the assistant general counsel assigned to JEA.

At this time, the interviews, initial stage of interviews, have been completed with the employees related to Ms.

Kavey's investigation.

There's a separate investigation going on as well related to Ms.

Moser.

That investigation is continuing to be underway.

We continue to have to have follow-up meetings with some of the employees based on statements that have been made.

We anticipate the investigation will be concluded within the next two weeks regarding Ms.

Kavey.

Okay.

You created some news there for me.

So Miss Mosier is included in this investigation.

There's a separate investigation as Ms.

Kavey notified you.

She was informed, and a separate complaint was made.

Ms.

Pittman, I believe, had letters that she you know was sharing.

JEA takes all investigations and all complaints seriously.

That investigation once again or complaint was against us uh chief legal uh chief officer, the chief human resource officer, and as a result of that complaint being made, once again the protocols that are in place, Ms.

Kavey notified me of the complaint when she received it as well and asked for OGC to handle it in the manner that was necessary.

The manner that's necessary is when anyone in upper leadership has a complaint filed against them, instead of it being handled internally, outside investigations are handled.

It is under investigation.

Just a couple of quick follow-ups.

You indicated you thought it would be completed in two weeks.

Is that correct?

Roughly.

Yes, roughly two weeks.

Okay.

The investigation will be completed.

She then has to simulate all of the responses.

So probably another three weeks, we will have everything done and a report should be issued.

Where would that report be issued to?

It will be issued to the board.

To the board of directors.

And I assume it will be presented at a board meeting of some sort.

Accurate.

So whether they call a special meeting or it's handled at a regular meeting, it would be presented to the board.

Thank you.

Excuse me.

Chair Salem.

I just like to say that normally these kinds of things should never be discussed in public.

In a in a forum like this, it's it's really unfortunate that this has happened.

Really unfortunate.

I would agree with you.

It's a it's a shame that it got to this point.

I think you and I would both agree with that.

Ms.

Ms.

Pittman, did you have a real quick question?

If not, we're gonna take a five-minute break and then bring Regina Ross up.

I just want to make sure that I understood that you would take care of the issue.

And then my other question.

Did any staff ever tell you that Ms.

Mosier was in the wrong position and that she was not qualified?

I'm just asking that.

Did anyone tell you that?

Yes, and that was their opinion.

Okay.

That's all I want to know.

Thank you.

Okay.

Thank you for coming.

I know this is not the most comfortable situation, but we appreciate you being here.

We'll take a five-minute break and then uh we'll bring Ms.

Ross up.

Thank you.

We'll reconvene at 320.

I think you have an opening statement that you want to read.

If you please uh please do that.

Is it not on here comes Teresa?

Okay.

Testing.

There you go.

Mr.

Chairman.

Yes.

And committee members.

Today I'm here again, subject to the committee subpoena.

And again, I intend to cooperate in your investigation to the full extent permissible by law because of this unique situation in which I find myself and the issues surrounding the confidentiality owed to JEA as my former client.

I have consulted with the Florida Bar in efforts to make sure that the information that I provide in response to your questions complies with all applicable laws and the bar's professional code of ethics.

The principle of confidentiality is given effect in two related bodies of law, the attorney client privileged established in the law of evidence and the rule of confidentiality established in professional ethics.

Excuse me, in other proceedings in which an attorney may be called as a witness or otherwise required to produce evidence concerning a client, and the rule of client lawyer confidentiality applies in situations other than those where evidence is sought from the lawyer through compulsion of law.

Additionally, I request your indulgence to allow me to consult with my colleague and counsel for this matter, Ms.

Pinkstaff.

In the event that I have any doubt as to my own guardrails and providing information in responses to your questions, please note that consistent with guidance from the Florida Bar when in doubt about providing information requested, I will err on the side of caution to preserve confidentiality by asserting the client attorney client privilege.

Okay.

Mr.

Teal?

Am I going to you first?

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Afternoon, Ms.

Ross.

After you.

I know I saw you in the back, but uh you were here during Ms.

Cavey's testimony, right?

That's correct.

And you heard her testimony about that the capacity fee issue, uh, some of the concerns that they had when preparing to meet with Mayo Clinic was the difficulty in uh ascertaining um how much would be owed to uh to JEA by the various folks.

Is that you recall that?

I recall hearing that.

Okay.

And one of the issues was that she used to justify the position I think that that she took when she met with the the uh the mayo clinic was that she was unaware uh of any other uh individuals or companies that were out there that uh that would have been uh would have had to pay capacity fees as well.

Did you remember her saying that?

I recall hearing that.

Okay.

So I know that I've seen in some of the staff documents that there were at least three other instances where JEA has had to go back and collect capacity fees.

Are you familiar with those three?

We became aware of those.

Okay.

At what point did you become aware of those?

Um I pretty early on, uh, we um when staff contacted uh OGC or contacted me in the office to ask about uh the specific Mayo instance, our first question was do we have other customers who have the same issue?

And is the reason for that that why that was important was because you're familiar with the tariff documents that require that you treat uh all customers the same?

It was just if you had an issue with one customer.

Can you pull closer to the microphone, Miss Ross?

Because they had the one issue with one customer, we just asked if there were any issues with any other customers, it was without review of any documents.

So in the event that there were other customers that uh owed capacity fees because of their uh exceedance of the original amount calculated due to additional development of those properties.

Wouldn't it have been possible to issue separate demand letters to each of those as you found them and work out the amounts that were owed or to determine what the amounts that were owed in in those types of conversations?

That question kind of gets closer to lending to privileged information, giving advice on strategy, so I'll refrain from asking that if you want to ask it a different way.

Did you advise JE?

Well, you're not gonna answer that.

You drafted the demand letter to collect the the past due amount from Mayo Clinic, correct?

Correct.

I did draft that document.

Okay, and the reason was is because some way you had to get in front of Mayo Clinic JEA's assertion as to the amount of money that was owed by Mayo Clinic, correct?

Correct.

So if if there were determinations made that there were other companies out there that um that owed capacity fees due to their growth, then is there anything that would have prevented JEA from seeking to collect those in the same way that they sought to collect the demand letter at Mayo Clinic?

No, there's nothing to prevent the issuing multiple demand letters.

Okay.

Did you advise Ms.

Kavey?

Well, let me back up.

You heard Ms.

Kavey testify about the uh agreements with the employees that had departed and how she felt like those agreements violated state statute.

Do you recall that?

I did hear that.

She said that she was following the advice of OGC.

Did you hear that?

I did hear that.

Did you advise Ms.

Kavey or any of her staff regarding Ms.

Marshall's termination and her separation agreement?

With respect to Ms.

Marshall's termination, I did not advise on the termination or the separation.

That was at the client's request that I not be involved in that.

And the client being Ms.

Kavey.

That came from staff, yes.

So Ms.

Kavey requested that you not review Raynetta Marshall's separation agreement.

That one was handled by outside counsel.

Why was it not handled by OGC?

I was requested not to uh not to not handle that one.

You heard Ms.

Brooks' testimony and Ms.

Kavey's testimony regarding Vicki Kavey's ability to resolve the Mayo Clinic issue without going to the board.

Is that correct?

I did.

I heard Ms.

Kavey's, I uh partially heard Ms.

Brooks.

Okay.

And so the issue was is what was the delegation agreement that authorized Ms.

Kavey to settle the uh the mayo clinic without going to the board.

And I have in front of me the delegation agreement.

Are you familiar with the delegation agreement?

The delegation of authority uh is uh uh passed by resolution by the board, it's the board authorizing the CEO uh giving the CEO some authority to handle certain issues.

So the the one that I'm looking at is the effective date is on June 25th of 2024.

Is that the one that's applicable to Ms.

Kavey?

I'm not sure.

It's been revised a couple of times.

I'd have to take a look at it, but I don't have it in front of me.

Okay.

I think it has been revised in recent years once or twice.

Since 2024?

I'm not sure.

Okay.

So assuming that this one is the one that applies to her, which pretty sure that it is, um see who signed it.

Uh board chair was Joseph DeSalvo.

So effective date was June 25th of 2024.

Are you aware of whether or not it had been uh amended since June 25th of 2024?

I'm not sure if it's been amended since then.

Okay.

So in that delegation agreement, it says the following listed matters are reserved upon the board and require specific action by the JEA board for for approval and signature authority and shall not be delegated.

The one that I'm interested in is a few of them.

One is subparagraph D, which says contracts and agreements for the purchase of goods and services that exceed 50 million dollars.

Are you familiar with that one?

Familiar with it.

Okay.

And then next one is contracts and agreements for the completion of budgeted capital projects that exceed $50 million dollars.

And then the other one is sub-paragraph G, which says settlement of litigation matters that exceed one million dollars.

So you heard Ms.

Kavey's testimony that the resolution of the mayo clinic, uh which the letter specifically says to avoid litigation.

Which of those three categories would that fall into?

I don't think I'm in the best position to give a legal opinion on that with the limited information in front of me.

But I did hear a testimony.

So would it be your opinion that the settlement of litigation matters only comes into play when litigation has been actually filed against JEA?

I can't speculate on it.

I think it would be on a case-by-case basis.

It would be something we would take a look at and see where we were in a dispute and then make a determination, but it would be something that we'd look at on a case-by-case basis.

Okay, but could you foresee that that provision could be triggered before litigation was filed in order to avoid a lawsuit?

Yeah.

That's called calling for a speculation.

And I can't, I'm not comfortable giving an answer on that one.

It's just call just cause for too much speculation.

So if Ms.

Cavey is correct that that provision only comes into play after litigation's filed, then her ability to settle a case prior to litigation being filed, she would have no authority to do that.

Is that correct?

That would all be reserved to the board, correct?

Can't answer that one off the top of my head because there could be another provision that I'm just not aware of at the time.

So the $50 million delegation only applies to contracts and agreements for the purchase of goods and services that exceed $50 million.

And for contracts and agreements for the completion of budgeted capital projects that exceed $50 million.

Do you think that the Mayo Clinic capacity fee issue is a contract or agreement for either the purchase of goods or services or for the completion of a budgeted capital project?

Mr.

Chairman, if I may for a minute, and I'm sorry to interrupt you, Mr.

Teal.

Tiffany Pinkstaff of OGC, I'm here on behalf of Ms.

Ross.

Ms.

Ross wasn't brought here today to render legal opinions from the from the table out here.

Um I believe she's supposed to be here to testify to any facts that she knows about that are outside the realm of providing legal advice to JEA when she was with JEA, which she's no longer with.

I would ask that this line of questioning end.

Go ahead, Mr.

Diamond.

Through the chair to counsel.

Um if Mr.

Thiel's asking for the witness to opine on what she felt the legal status was at the time, I think that would be a fact witness.

If she's asking for her opinion today about something that she didn't witness, I would agree with you.

So if Mr.

Teal confines his questioning to just those matters, and I don't think he's got that much.

Let's be clear, we're almost done.

Her opinion at the time, I think that's relevant personally, but I understand your point.

If he's requesting her opinion at the time, that definitely gets into attorney client privilege, and she 100% cannot answer that.

If I may, Chair, sure.

Uh please.

Yeah, Ms.

Ross is here to testify about what she knows factually.

She is not here as an attorney to give her opinion pursuant to a subpoena.

So if you want an opinion, that's a different issue.

Ms.

Ross is not here in public off the cuff to give an opinion to a special investigator committee.

She can talk about what she witnessed, what she she did there, as long as it's not privileged, what her opinion was at that time, what she told people would either be attorney client privilege or work product if it was an anticipation of litigation.

Thank you.

In all honesty, I was expecting a uh an answer as the the document speaks for itself.

So um but okay, we'll go with that.

Uh Mr.

Chairman, that's all the questions I have for Ms.

Ross.

Mr.

Diamond, do you have anything?

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chair.

So I did was able to watch your testimony from before.

Sorry, I was on military orders.

I would have loved to have been here for that, but um I look, this is a terrible position, especially as a lawyer.

This is like one of the hardest things to dance between.

So thank you for the all the effort.

Thank you for coming back three times.

Thanks for all this.

I hope Jacksonville knows that you've been a very honest and decent broker on all this under very difficult circumstances.

And personally as a lawyer here in Jacksonville, I'd be honored to work with you professionally.

You appreciate it.

Councilmember Pittman, do you have anything?

Sure.

I just wanna just say thank you.

Um for coming back and having meetings with me for me to understand and get me kind of uh to snuff about the whole situation.

So I really appreciate it.

Thank you.

President Carico, do you have anything?

Okay.

I don't have anything.

I suspect this will be our last meeting.

Just a just a rough guess.

And uh um basically we have the capacity issue to resolve, but I think there are other ways of getting to getting to that other than this type of committee and our survey.

I think we can uh work on getting that information to the JGA board once we receive it.

I don't think we need a a committee to do that.

So I want to thank you as well, Miss Ross, for all the testimony.

And uh if there are no other comments, we're gonna adjourn.

Okay, thank you.