I'd ask to be recognized for procedural objection, Chair.

Once I can prove this, I'll already using myself.

I plan to do so.

I'll say my objection once appropriate.

I'm gonna give 15 minutes for each team of for each team to present, then I will allow the committee 15 minutes for questioning, and then we'll I will allow 15 minutes for deliberation and uh conclusion.

That's all I have.

Um, just to clarify, anything that comes out today would then have to go on and be ratified by city council.

And I would ask that that decision be walked on tonight if we do come to a decision.

If it's unanimous out of the committee, it can be walked on.

If it is not unanimous, it cannot perve the city council rules.

If I could be recognized briefly.

Chair.

Oh, thank you.

Um I'm Bryce Cook.

Um, I'm here on behalf of Sharkwave Aquatic Team.

I'm the chairman of the board for Sharkwave Aquatic, and I certainly appreciate all of y'all's time and attention and being here tonight.

Um, there are two significant procedural objections that that I must raise.

First, there is a apparent conflict of interest.

Um at least a question raised as to the chair's um the propriety of the chair being involved in this process, and for that we're seeking recusal, which I believe you've already addressed.

However, there's also an issue of asymmetric notice of this meeting.

Umtice was given to one side before the public was given notice, certainly before we were.

And under those circumstances, I believe we will need some information and written guidance from the city attorney on the city's position as to each of those.

Only for the purpose of making sure the public can have confidence that this process is full, fair, and neutral with those questions before us.

And with that, I will excuse myself.

So, what are your two questions?

Number one about recusal, and number two, about notice of the special called meeting.

I'll provide those concerns in writing.

Okay, well, let me respond.

Not in writing.

Number one, the chair's already said he'll recuse, so that issue is addressed.

Number two, state law only requires is it two hours?

Two hours notice of a special called meeting, period.

And then there are publication requirements.

I believe both sides got way more notice than that.

I sent out the notification on Saturday morning.

Right.

Um two hours is what's required by state law.

So there is no notice issued for this meeting.

Obviously, this is not the correct forum for you and I to have a legal debate over what the law says.

Um, I will seek written guidance and additional information from the city on this.

And with that, we'll excuse ourselves.

I assume my objections are overruled.

I I just need you to understand that the city may go forward hearing from the other side.

And if the council committee makes a decision, that's on them.

Because proper notice was given by state law.

There is no guidance as to how this will take place because this is an unusual circumstance.

We were asked if we would give both sides an opportunity to be heard by the committee and by council, and we tried to facilitate that as quickly as possible because there are no current signed contracts to use our pool, and I know both teams want to get in the water as quickly as possible, and neither team can get in the water until there's a signed contract.

So we were trying to facilitate that on behalf of both swim teams to get you in the water quicker.

Certainly, our desire is to get in the water quicker.

Right.

At this point, the entire process and framing of this conversation is so tainted, apparently, by conflict of interest, violations of law.

And obviously, we can have a debate on an in another way.

Or today as to the elite legality of it.

And therefore we'll stand on our objections.

I will seek written guidance from the city attorney's office.

And uh we'll I've given you all the guidance I can give you today, Bryce.

Um I mean, there I don't know how you who is more neutral than the committee that has not been in I don't think anybody else here on this panel has any idea why they're here today, other than we sent them last year's contract, this year's proposed contract, and said you know, we weren't able to reach an agreement, so we're letting both sides come and voice their concerns to you.

Everyone else on this committee is is impartial, and Mr.

Gibson has agreed to recuse.

So there is no other format for this.

All I can tell you is I will be happy to provide you the citations to law so you can review them and not give an off the cuff legal opinion and commit to it.

Do you have those with you?

I I will I will send you uh a letter in writing first thing in the morning, and uh I would expect as the city attorney you would respond appropriately in writing and advise as to what the city's position is on this.

Um that's your prerogative.

And um, but until those issues are resolved, um, which I do not believe they are this is not the appropriate forum to address the substantive issue until the procedural concerns are resolved.

So with that, I'll excuse myself.

Thank you all.

So, what's the desire of the committee?

Do you want to appoint somebody to take your place?

Joe, do you mind running this meeting?

I don't mind at all.

So, what's the desire of the committee?

Do you want to hear from assuming Jett's willing to speak?

Do you want to hear from Jet or do you want to wait?

My position is that proper legal notice was given for a special called meeting.

More than proper legal notice was given for a special called meeting.

Um that we tried to facilitate it quickly in order to accommodate the swim teams getting in the water as quickly as possible because we don't have signed contracts at this point with them.

But it's up to you if you want to postpone and you know wait for when when does swim practice in the morning start?

It should have started last weekend this week for us, it's currently ongoing at 6 30 in the morning.

I mean it's ongoing for we're not using the city court.

Right.

We're normally in there by March 1st.

Okay.

Y'all have to, if you want to if you want this on the podium, but what's the desire of the committee?

Y'all want to continue?

Uh I just say I support the city attorney's position.

Um, I mean, in my nine years, we've had special called meetings with a lot less notice.

I'm not gonna say it's frequent, but I mean the city clerk went out of her way to you know, send messages on Saturday morning, so this is a somewhat urgent issue.

So I believe you can hear from Mr.

Stearns as to when he tried to notify as many contacts as he had in his phone from both teams.

Um I don't know if that was Monday or if that was over the weekend.

Okay, Sunday would be his response.

So I mean, beyond that, I mean, what what the point of this was is that we met, we have met extensively with both each team.

Yes.

Um, we being not Mr.

Gibson, we being myself, um Brian Richardson and Jim Stearns, and went over what we were proposing as far as a change from last year.

Just I know you received all of the contracts, but just to give you um sort of an update.

Um last year the lanes were split five and five.

I think that, and Jim might can speak to this better, because obviously I wasn't there, but I think there were constant complaints at the pool about uneven usage of the pool and perhaps some safety issues, which the other side obviously disputes that it's a safety issue, but some safety issues with having so many kids in the lanes versus a smaller team having less kids in the lanes, and we tried um to come up with a way that it would be the most fair.

I don't think either side likes the way we came up with, to be honest, so we can be accused of of playing favorites in that, but I think that um during one of our initial meetings without either swim team present, um Mr.

Richardson said, Well, could we look at last year's AAU USA numbers?

And so we tried because that way nobody nobody knew we would be looking at those this year, so they wouldn't have tried to increase those in any way.

There wouldn't have been an opportunity for not that I'm accusing anyone of anything, but there would be no way for either side to accuse the other of increasing those numbers, knowing that we were gonna use that as our numbers to try to guide the pool lane usage.

I don't know that we ever got any numbers from USA, Jim, but we did get AAU, or do I have that backwards?

You have it backwards.

Yeah, USA.

We have we have USA and not AA.

He still has no numbers.

Right.

And so based upon what we got from USA, it came down to maybe basically 6040.

And so our thought process was six lanes for jet, four lanes for uh shark or SWAT, I guess that's what they call themselves.

And um and then my discussion was well, you can't split the cost 50-50 if you're not splitting the lanes 50-50.

So we came up with the formula for how to calculate a per lane usage, and that's how we drafted the contract that we presented to both teams.

Obviously, neither team is happy with that contract.

I think if I would if if I'm clear on the positions, I think obviously SWAT doesn't want to lose a lane, and JET believes that their numbers would reflect that they need seven and three is is where we left it.

Um, and we could not get to a meeting of the months on that.

So that's how we ended up here today to let them each voice their position to you guys and let you as a committee who is not affiliated in any way that I know of with either one, listen to it and decide what you thought was most fair.

Um the allegation was made that Mr.

Gibson was biased and had a honestly a bigger role in this than he did.

Did he bring it to our attention?

Did he initiate the calling of the meeting?

Yes, and I'll let him speak as a just a citizen if he wants to do that here in a second, um, about that because his daughter was on one of the swim teams, but I can honestly say that he did not, he wasn't the one saying, Well, let's use these numbers, or and and neither side is happy with how we we picked the lane split completely.

So I don't know.

Um that's their allegation is that it was an unfair fight from the beginning because Chris Gibson was involved and his daughter was on the swim team.

Okay, so at this point that's where we are.

Do we want uh somebody the Jets to present?

That's up to the committee to approach the podium, present their side.

Is that your I mean we want to proceed?

Uh yes.

Yeah, and I think that the agenda that Mr.

Gibson laid out was each team present their 15 minutes, they have up to 15 minutes, then we can ask questions and then deliberations.

At which point is does the public get to ask questions at someone that's not affiliated with each team with that being I would think so.

If there's someone here that wants to ask a question, I would think we could have time to allow that.

At this point, we'll let the Jets present their case and we'll go from there.

All right, thank you.

Please um state your name and address for the record, please.

My name is Tim Bird.

Um the ex-official ex-president of the Jets Aquatic Club.

Thank you guys for having us tonight and facilitating this meeting.

I know it's short notice as well.

We are anxious to get into the pool.

I do want to clarify a few things that were already been said and been brought up already as is the uh the issue with trying to get ASU AAU and USA numbers.

The USA numbers you guys acquired back on December 31st, as I've talked to USA SWIM, the president of USA SWIM was a good attempt to try to find something for this upcoming year to designate lanes.

In all fairness, it was a great attempt.

The problem with that number then is that they don't change their roster out from changes that take place during the year to after the first of the year.

So lots of swimmers that are on our team have been on our team, but still showing on the other team's roster.

If you want an accurate number today, that number is 58 USA swimmers for jets, 20 for shark wave aquatic club.

Three times as many.

AAU side of it, currently active, registered swimmers paying dues, active swimmers for the jets right now, are 155.

So with that, we're asking for seven lanes for regular hours, and then when the city lessons come on board, drop down to five lanes.

We think that's a fair, that's a fair number.

And I'll get to that in just a second.

So I just want to kind of go through a few things.

Standing right here about two years ago, I was approached by the mayor, several city council members that are not necessarily here tonight.

They say, hey, we're building a huge facility.

We want you guys to build a team worthy of that facility.

So what do we do?

We have 38 swimmers.

In the last two years, we have now grown to 155 swimmers.

We took on the challenge.

That's what we did.

You guys asked us to do it.

We did it.

So once we've got that point, that's what we're asking for the lanes because we feel like we've put the work in to do that.

I want to explain to you why the lanes were important because a lot of you guys like me, I was a high school coach in the public school system.

I have a coaching degree.

I did not understand swimming completely.

I didn't understand why the number of kids per lane was that big of a deal until I saw it firsthand, and then I understood.

It's not like baseball, the big field or football, a huge field.

What happens is you start putting swimmers into a lane that swim down the right side, hit the wall, turn around and swim back the other side.

So you have a concert that's called circle swimming.

So you imagine, like NASCAR, you start adding numbers to that.

Start adding cars side by side, end to end.

The closer they get, one of them has a bump, takes the wrong breath, takes in water, hits the lane rope, they all boom, boom, they all crash.

Your incident for getting injured or having an accident goes up with the number of swimmers per lane.

It's just common sense.

There is no guideline from USA saying how many swimmers you can put in the lane because you can do different activities in those lanes.

But common sense will say if you're swimming circle swimming, which is how they build endurance, it's how they work on their strokes, then that's that's what they do.

The more swimmers per lane, the more incident for for a possibility of an accident.

That's why number of lanes are very important.

I wanted to kind of clarify that as a reason why.

Honestly, by boots on the ground.

We've put actually put out over 10,000 flyers to schools from Green County, Craig County, down to, I mean, to Truman, Harrisburg, Waterbridge, all schools, divided up, 2020 flyers per teacher given to each school out there on the ground, trying to build a program for this incredible.

And I've been over the country with my daughter swims all over the country.

And this is one of the nicest facilities I've ever seen.

It rivals the best of the best out there.

For us to have the ability to be able to fill that thing up with teams from other states, you've got to develop a competitive swim team, and you've got to have lots of numbers.

That's what we've been doing.

We were charged with that task from the city.

We put the time and effort in, and we've done it through social media, through you know, guidelines, giving stuff to schools.

Whatever it took to get it done, we grew the numbers.

And that's where we're at today.

I'm not a courtroom attorney, so I don't have all the procedure stuff down.

We also hold, we actually held in the last two years the largest and only USA swim meet, USA being the top elite swimming, AAU being a little bit lower level, more beginner swimmers than that.

First, Jack Deacon Moral meet two three years ago.

This would be the third year coming up, but there were 200 swimmers from four states at the USA level, spent three days here, and all their restaurants benefited from it, hijinks and all the rest benefiting from those people being in town.

And our goal is to do more and more and more of those to build up to have the facility we're gonna have.

You're gonna have USA swim meets with people from all over the country, zones, sectionals, state meets, those are all USA events that we're trying to work toward, have the team be able to compete at that level.

And we have the numbers.

The retention rate per USA swimming, straight retention of swimmers in the in the club in the state of Arkansas, there's 14 teams.

The top number one retention swim team in Arkansas is the Jets at 82%.

The lowest number 14 is SWAT with 22%.

Retention is a big thing when it comes to building a program, making it bigger.

You gotta keep the guys on online, on task, and building the numbers.

The Jets in the last five years have produced 100% swim scholarship for any graduating swimmer.

The Jets, if they've chosen to swim or not, they've been offered scholarships to swim worth over a million dollars across the board.

It's a tremendous program.

One of the swimmers this year was got a West Point Academy uh you know nomination or bid.

Going to the Naval Academy now.

It's an incredible program.

Our leadership, our head coach at the Division One swim coach that's coming in and take over the Jets program, who worked in the large swim program in Benton, Arkansas.

He knows how to handle a big team.

And that's what we brought him in for.

We made a change just because we knew the numbers so big, we needed a legitimate coach that could come in at that level to build the team where it needs to be.

So with that all being said about the program, let's get through the numbers real quick.

To give you an idea, I have made this more simple so you can understand the lane numbers because we have overlapping numbers.

We have kids that swim an hour and a half, kids of swim an hour and 15 minutes, keep swimmers that swim two hours.

So the numbers I'm gonna give you are the bottom numbers that we're gonna have, and probably the maximum number for the SWAT team to have.

I feel like that's a fair, that's a fair shape from our part to do that.

If you do a 50-50 split like last year, we're estimating look at numbers that we can see online to where we can get our numbers from.

The SWAT has approximately 50 swimmers, and that's between here, Mountain Home, Pocahontas, wherever not just swimming in Jonesboro, they're there are different places.

Gives them 3.3 swimmers per lane.

The jets, I'll use a lower number here, I'll drop it down 20.

At 138 swimmers with five lanes, we have 9.2 swimmers per lane.

Three times as much.

Three times the more chance of having injury or to have an accident.

On a 7-3 split, with SWAT having 50 swimmers, they have 5.5 swimmers per lane.

The jets would have 6.6 with seven lanes, still more, but more fair.

That's a fair number.

Something else, just go to some even beyond that.

On their own website, they have listed pools they swim in, Pocahontas, Trim Gym, and a city pool.

I'll call trim gym.

SWAT gets 17 hours, four lanes per week over there to swim in.

Four lanes, 17 hours per week.

If you factor in the city lanes with three lanes, and their ability to swim at SWAT, which they've been doing since the since the onset, that gives them 2.3 swimmers per lane.

That's it.

If they use the Pocahontas numbers, I'll call them the day two as well to verify.

They get 10 hours, three lanes.

They just also use the Pocahontas facility, they're down to almost one swimmer per lane.

We're still at 9.2.

We have two lanes for two hours at St.

at St.

Bernard's that they're gracious to even let us have that to carry that to summer just for an emergency.

That's not even a carryover, virtually nothing.

I've got no malice toward the SWAT team and them building a program, and I hope one day we have two gigantic programs here in Jonesboro.

I think it'd be great for the competition.

I like the rivalry.

Uh, me being a head coach before, I I get that, and I understand I truly do.

There's no malice toward them.

And someday they might be there where we are right now, but they're not there right now.

They do not have the numbers to fill those lanes like we do.

And there will be, if we're crammed into 16 kids per lane, 17 kids per lane, they're gonna be injuries.

I don't care that the best swim coach in the planet cannot avoid that.

You cannot have that many kids in a lane to be safe.

I'm asking you guys today to choose safety, to choose common sense to divide the lanes up according to what they should be divided up to and its size.

I think we've earned the lanes, we've put the work in and we've earned the numbers and we've earned the lanes.

Thank you guys for your time.

Thank you.

Does the committee have any questions for the Jets?

Dr.

Coleman.

I didn't get your name.

I'm sorry, I didn't remember your name.

Can you go back to the podium, please, sir?

What's the procedure?

Um, okay, great.

Jim?

Okay, sorry.

Tim.

That's Jim.

I'm telling us close enough.

I need to hear good enough.

Lots of gems in the room.

I got it.

Um I I have no dog in this fight at all.

Gotcha.

Um, so I'm just asking straight up.

Um you were talking numbers, and the numbers are impressive.

Um, but when you talk about SWAT's numbers, um, are they valid?

I mean, how are you validating their numbers?

Is it legitimate?

No, no, no, that's it's a fair question because all we can do right now is verify and you know, and verify what we have.

You can go online and verify each one of those numbers.

Um looking on just going by Facebook practices, swim meet attendance, state meets, the numbers they're bringing there, four or five swimmers for meets.

That's the number that's we can see because we can't actually get into their business, other than USA, where we have 58 and they have 20.

That was given to me to do by the USA president of Arkansas Swimming.

So we're three times the numbers of USA.

I got to figure we're three times the number in AU as well.

I think we're even more to be honest with you on the AAU side.

Give you an example.

The last two weeks, if you go to our site, you will see we have over 60 new swimmers that just signed up in the last two or three weeks for summer swim.

They have five.

That's verifiable on their site.

Dr.

Coleman, can I ask a follow-up question on that?

I hate to interrupt you, but are those this year's numbers or last year's numbers?

That's current numbers.

Okay, can you get those numbers for last year?

Can I that we cannot get?

See, here's the thing.

I I think the questions you got.

No, fair question.

Right.

Because we tried to get those numbers as well for us to have those.

Because they don't take a snapshot of that window, and they they update their stuff at the first of the year.

So people that change over during throughout that year to whatever clubs, it doesn't get reset until after the first of the year.

Well, I understand that you may not like last year's numbers.

I'm asking if you can get us last year's numbers.

I think my last time number okay, perfectly.

Here's my just though, but right now.

Here's my issue, sir.

Um I need a number that's like published somewhere.

Uh we have that for our numbers.

I know, but in our position, or at least in my position, I I want to speak for myself.

I don't need like speculation.

I I need like numbers that we can say, okay, these are independently, these are verified.

That's what we were trying to do.

Trust them very trust and verify.

I totally understand.

And I understand that that's not perfect for right now conditions, but I mean, if can we're last year's numbers that we can see.

I mean, I mean that's the question.

We could only get the one set.

We haven't been able to get them from the other group.

Um, so riddle me.

This let me let me try to go at it from a different way.

I assume that both swim teams would have to have insurance coverage for their swimmers.

Is that through one of those organizations?

Do you have your own insurance coverage?

Okay, so can you get a do students or participants have to sign a waiver?

What do the does each parent have to sign a waiver to sign their child up to swim?

They do have waivers they do sign for photographs.

Do you keep a copy of that?

I'll to check for you.

I don't have an I don't have it.

Well, because could we get last year's I don't we have waivers?

I know we had those from last year or not.

Okay.

I'll have to find out.

I get where you're coming from.

Do you want to verify one?

A verifiable number from both sides.

But my thing is this.

Right now, the pool is getting ready to open, and right now is when you have the swimmers.

We can verify every swimmer we have through current rosters USA and AEU.

If they would have stayed, they could have stated their numbers.

I can't I can't do that.

I understand your plot too as well.

Without their numbers, it's hard to make the decision.

When you get a number, however, you can get a number, we've tried as well.

AAU doesn't do snapshots either of that that time print.

So all we can do is right now.

That's all I can give you.

It's the numbers right now.

So just for counsel, when we wrote the contract, we did not put in six and four, seven and three.

We just said we would base it on the numbers from last year from those two organizations.

Um we've tried to brainstorm other ways to get valid numbers.

Um I suppose one of the things that we and Brian, I may have I hate to give Brian a good idea, but it might have been Brian's idea to um that the city require a waiver from every student that is going to be practicing at our pool.

Not that swims with them somewhere else.

We don't care about that, but that is going to be practicing in our pool.

And once we had those signed waivers, maybe we determine lanes.

I mean, it's just a thought.

We're just trying to come up with a fair way to pick the lanes.

Yeah.

Either that or I mean, I'm you're not gonna like me for this at all.

But my position other than that is sign what you signed last year and let's move forward and it's one year, and then you have the rack.

Um and I know that's not what you want to hear.

Sign the contract we did last year, and you know, move forward.

And I know that's not what you want, but I don't have a way to resolve we've tried.

Sure, we there's a there's a very easy way to resolve it.

I understand.

All you gotta do is have them get their AU numbers right now from today, today's date.

They can call AAU will give them their numbers.

They can look, they can have a snapshot of today.

They can get USA numbers, which I got for you guys today.

The only number we're missing is their AAU numbers, which they could get today.

All you gotta do is make a phone call and say, I need your AU numbers, pull that pull that right now from Team Unify, give me your numbers.

You could have that information tonight.

Unless they don't the only fair way I know to do this is by a verified number of swimmers for each team.

Um to get that.

And it's just a question of that's where we were.

Where do we get that?

Chairman, yes.

Um, I would just say again, no dog in the fight.

I probably couldn't personally swim to save my life.

My wife's a well-known swimmer, my daughter swims, uh, she's two years old, she's not on either team.

Um, so so uh so personally I have zero dog in the fight at all.

Um, maybe only know one or two people in the room, and I'm not influenced by that either, of course.

But I will say that um having been in and around government for a long time, there's a lot of times I don't like the process.

I don't particularly like having to run for office.

Um, you know, I mean, we all just kind of wish we were up here forever and didn't have to run for office.

So there's a lot of processes we don't like, but there had to be a process for today, and there was a process for today, and I feel like we're asking you a lot of unfair questions because we don't have anybody else to ask of.

Um so I understand that, but um, I don't know.

It it's hard to make a decision when somebody's not.

I mean, I feel this way sometimes if we have a rezoning or if we have alcohol permit or whatever when we have questions and they're not here to answer it or refuse to be part of the process because they don't like the process, and I'll say, in my opinion, what I know of everybody setting up here, nobody else has a dog in this hunt, and I trust Chairman Gibson's fairness.

Uh, I'll say for me, I mean, he didn't lobby me or send me any secret information, you know.

What no communication with Chris Gibson about this meeting, other than hey, we're gonna have a special meeting on so-and-so date at so-and-so time, can you make it?

Um, so I don't think Chris Gibson influences committee in any way, but those are my comments, Chairman.

May I speak let me do one thing real quick?

Dr.

Coman will have one more question, I think.

Sure.

Go ahead, Dr.

Coleman.

So um also reiterate um colleague Mr.

Gibson, he literally just called me while I was at work and said, Hey, I need you to come to a meeting.

So I was like, okay.

And that was the conversation.

Uh but um is there, and I'm just getting this for my information so that I can decide whatever.

Um as a coach, I'm assuming you coach swimming.

No, no.

Oh, you don't have to be a good thing.

Oh, you're okay.

I have a USA coaching certification.

I have coached swimming, yes.

Oh, the high school uh basketball coach.

So I'm gonna ask this as a coach.

Absolutely.

Is there a competitive advantage by having and I understand the safety part?

You you explain that well.

But is there some kind of competitive advantage by having more lanes versus less same because we're talking numbers right now?

Yes.

Because you have kids that are starting out, say even in in a say 20 kids are a senior level kids, okay, which is our top level, some of the best swimmers in the in the in the nation.

Here's what you have.

Even in those swimmers, you have variations of of ability.

So they're not all equal.

So you had to kind of combine the ones that are all close in times together to have an equal.

If you get somebody too fast, they're running over people, somebody too slow, they're getting run over by somebody else.

So there's where the competitive side can then, yes, you've got to have those lanes enough to divide them up so they can be in a similar time period.

There's a very to me, there's a very simple solution to all of this.

You amend the contract to say we want to just do rosters right now, forget last year.

These are current rosters, these are what the numbers are right now.

We get to jump in the pool in a couple of weeks.

I would say amend the contract to say provide the rosters as of today's date for both of them, and you can add to have those tomorrow.

This is the roster I did just AU questions.

Yeah.

On the jet side of it, we just pulled it up just in the AAU side of it.

It's 158.

On USA, we have 58.

We know SWAT has 20.

The only number we don't have is their AAU number, which they could have tomorrow.

So my thing is why I'd mend the contract to say use today's date, pull both numbers from both of them, and you have an accurate number going forward with what you can use in the pool.

We have I think we need to get some public comment now.

Is there anybody from the public that wants to make a comment?

And I'll say in my almost nine and a half years on the council, this is the first time we've ever been involved in something like this.

So we are kind of flying by the seat of our parents here.

So please say your name and address for the record police.

So I I'm listening, and and I don't have a dog in the fight either, other than I I listen a lot, and I and I look at trends and things that go on, and what's con number one, I don't know why we can't figure out two different dates for these people to swim.

That that that may be an option, may not be an option.

I'm not 100% sure what's the one.

Neither one of them will agree to that.

Um two this is a big worry that I have, and that is that this is like revolution all over again in some aspects, guys.

I mean I again I don't I mean, I've got friends that are on the jets, and I got friends that are on the other one, and and um I I just want you guys to be real careful here that we don't open up another situation.

I I think these guys will tell you, you know, they they switch coaches back and forth, they switch kids back and forth, they recruit back and forth, you know, they had problems, and and when they had problems, people went over to the other one, and when they had problems, people went back and forth.

You know, that that that happens all the time.

AU, I've been involved in AAU, their numbers today probably won't reflect the same numbers in June.

Um that's the way AAU works.

Um 100% will not reflect.

But you know what's really what's concerning is is what the the gentleman here who I have a hundred per I'm I don't know him, but I'm uh I'm sure he's cares about kids.

And that's the biggest thing is I think all these people care about kids.

So you guys got a you know pretty huge responsibility here.

But you know the the the what's concerning is is that the mayor says to this gentleman, you know, develop a team that's worthy of the ridge.

What does that say to the other team?

You know, uh we you guys just have to be careful here.

You have to be really careful here that we're not creating the same situation that we had with revolution, where revolution got fields when nobody else did.

Then other organizations can't build theirs because they don't, you know, of fields or lanes or whatever.

This is a tough situation, and and like I have dear friends on both.

Um, you know, uh but you guys have to be careful, and I don't know why they won't agree on two different dates or whatever, but uh you know it's kind of like to to your guys' points over here.

You you give them the dates then they they either abide by them or they don't, you know.

I mean, it is what it is.

Now, the the biggest thing is it's obviously kid safety, and that should be first and foremost, number one, but you know, until you know legitimately what that is, I don't I don't know how you can make a decision.

Um I think that that should should pretty much be your guys' only decision is what's best for the kids and the safety of the kids.

The rest of it is and Mr.

Terrell, to respond to that.

I tried to not listen to either coach and do like my own research on what's recommended as like a safe, you know, how many kids can you have in a lane?

And and unfortunately, the AAU and USA won't tell you that.

I mean, Google will tell you probably it's safest, but you know, Google will tell you all kinds of things.

But it says, you know, four to five kids in a lane is probably the safest, but AAU and USA will say that has to be a coaching decision because like he was saying, and I think if Will were still here, I think he said similar that it depends on the level that your swimmer is at, how many of them you can safely put in a lane.

You obviously can't put what I think they call minnows in with your advanced swimmers, or there's gonna be a safety issue, but you might can put more advanced swimmers in a lane, or maybe I may have said that backwards, more minnows in a lane than advanced swimmers, but I think that unfortunately there's no like neutral guidance out there for us to say, okay, we're gonna say this many kids and be in a lane, period.

Um based on the research we've done.

And what's gonna happen if one of their coaches get mad, their main coaches and they leave and go over to SWAT and take 40 swimmers.

Right.

And you guys got a contract where now it's flip-flopped completely.

And trust me, it happened, and it has happened.

Um so I I'd be real careful on how you do it, number one, a year contract when the numbers are gonna switch because people parents get mad, kids get mad, and coaches get mad because it's happened with these guys.

You know, that it it has happened back and forth with these guys, and you know, the numbers are constantly going to change.

I guarantee you, I'll make a bet with anybody, June 1st, the numbers will be different for it's each team than they are today.

So you you really need to make sure that this is this is number one, it gives each team the ability to to perform one, two, there is no there is no holdback for each team to excel and become the best version of themselves.

You know, we don't we don't need you know one team getting all the lanes and no and the other team not getting any, but at the end of the day, I mean you know it is only about the kids' safety.

I agree and everybody having what would you base it on.

Not to be put on the spot, but we're all on the spot here.

I I would I guess you guys are the I would say you one does it on one day, one does it on the other.

I mean that's not swimming, that's not how swimming works.

I I mean I I I completely understand, but I've got some nephews that swim in Little Rock, and they're they're hardcore.

They are hardcore, not they're hardcore.

I've got we've got they're impressive.

We've got friends that go to paragol because they don't want any mess of the the Jonesboro, you know that's going on.

One of the things that we did do, and I to accommodate and not uh take any lanes away from anybody in the morning is we moved our swim lessons that we normally do to the other pool for the mornings.

So the only swim lesson we have that's gonna take away their lanes is in the afternoon four days a week for an hour.

That also became a point of contention because then they go down a lane potentially to like well, we were proposing six and four, so they you know that became a point of contention is losing a lane, but I don't think you're gonna get a decision that doesn't have contention in it.

Correct.

And for me, it just has to be the fairest thing with everything in play.

And I think who may be there in June, who may not be there in June.

I think from the city's perspective, number one, no offense to anyone who is on a swim team, but these are city pools.

So our first priority has to be open swim for kids of Jonesboro, daycares and schools being able to bring their kids to the pools during the day in the summer, swim lessons for kids that can't for whatever reason participate in a swim team.

And some of those end up on a swim team, so I think that feeds both programs, but swim lessons for young kids that we can offer at our city pools.

I mean, those have to be our top priorities, obviously, as a city.

Totally agree.

And um, beyond that, we're just trying to do the best we can do to make it fair until there are more things available at the rack.

Um I'm gonna the maybe you take month to month numbers and well, I was gonna say we were trying to get away from refereing this all year, because that's what's kind of been happening.

And the I look at all the parks department shaking their head, yes.

Um refereeing it every day or every month, or all that has been a nightmare last year.

I think is what led us to this to this point.

So I'm gonna throw this out, Jim, and you might want to come up and speak to it.

And what if we did the numbers today or tomorrow?

Give them plenty of notice to get us their numbers tomorrow.

And then I set up the contract where it says numbers on what is tomorrow, May the 6th, May the 6th, numbers on June the 6th, numbers on I don't know when they would change again, August the 6th.

And our lanes, I mean, our contract stays the same.

It's you know, however much per lane.

I'm a big I'm a big math person, the math doesn't lie, so just do the math and the math's the math.

And I mean, well, you would think it would be that simple, but two thousand dollars a lane is also in dispute, and we tried to base that on heating costs instead of maybe we go back to a lane usage fee, and then you pay your half of the heating cost when you're in the pool.

I don't know.

Jim looking at me like his mind is going.

You want to come up and speak to any of that and how big a problem that would be.

No, I'm looking at Jim Starnes and he's trying not to get out of his chair.

I'm just trying, I mean, I know this is a discussion meeting, so we're kind of brainstorming here, and you can tell me I'm crazy if that's not a fair space.

I'm joking, I'm glad to speak on the pools.

You know, it uh again, uh, since you guys some update kind of the things we've kind of looked at this year.

I mean, we really again you hit the topic.

We want to be able to offer swim lessons, daycare opportunities, and public school opportunities to anybody that wants to participate, and that's gonna be first and foremost of the community, and that's that's kind of our responsibility in Parks Erect to make sure that everybody that wants an opportunity to come and participate in water sports gets an opportunity on that same line, so is a swim team because their their ability to swim and train and compete are directly related to the amount of time they get to be in the water, as we all know that that have pursued those type of goals.

And so we came up we we looked at a lot of different ways to figure out how to charge the pool, and it and it's there's no right, there's no wrong, and there's certainly not an easy way.

Um we uh we tried to look at how we could help by moving the morning swim lessons to the evening at one pool so that we could free up more swim team time, and then we offer the lessons at the the Parker Park pool during that time, so we're still offering as maximum number of lessons that we have.

So that was one opportunity that we had to look at to try to make it um to work.

You know, I and I don't know the answer.

We like I said, we I I've I've been reaching out to the AU guy the whole time since this meeting is here, and he finally just gave me the national number, who obviously they close at five.

And so I can't I I can't I don't have access to AU numbers, and the AAU rep for the South does not have access to those numbers.

Apparently, he's locked out of that system.

Um what we try to do is try to make a way to make it as fair as possible based on what numbers that we could get.

And right now, those were the 2025 USA numbers, which obviously have already changed because we're in 2026.

Um I don't I don't know if there's a fair answer.

I'm certainly I'll entertain any questions that you may have on on things my recommendation is we see if we can get updated there numbers that we can verify from a website, not just from someone texting them to us.

And you you base the lane allocation upon that number.

Do you want to do that once or do we want to do that?

I don't want to do it.

I mean, I would I mean I was thinking, well, I mean I guess that is a month.

I'm sorry, y'all, I've been sick and y'all are lucky I'm here.

Steroids are a great thing.

That's what got me here.

Um I guess May to June is a month, isn't it?

So do it now, you know, like tomorrow and do it again in July 1st or something.

I mean July 1 and then maybe September 1.

Yeah, I mean for the ones that still want to use the pool.

I recommend you do the end of the month and that's first of the month.

Okay.

Because that's when they're posted as of the okay, June 30th, August 31st.

I can redraft the contract to say that so April 30th.

Can we get the numbers as of April 30th?

I think.

We can't seem to get any numbers.

So is there a way?

Well, let me ask you this question.

Is and you might need to come to the podium.

Is there a way that you can make the AAU guy give Jim the numbers directly?

As opposed to us having to get them from each team.

I can only get them pool from our sorry Jim.

I can only get those pool for our team because we can see those for the case.

I understand.

Is there a way to do that?

I can reach out to Eric Vogan and attempt to do that, but I'm sure you've already tried to get that to Eric too as well.

I just didn't know if it came from you and SWAT if they would be more likely to cooperate with us and get us those numbers.

Well, I can actually pull their their numbers off that.

I know they can.

But I I wish I could, I would do that for the proved my point, even more so if I could do that for you guys, I would do that.

Is there a print off that we can that's certified or looks that you can't create on your with chat GPT that will show us that your numbers are what they say?

USA and AAU, we can print that for you tomorrow off our stuff.

I mean, from their site, not from our jet station.

And it'll look on their side.

Yeah, we can get it.

We can go somewhere and keep it certified.

Well, I mean, from somebody who knows what they're certifying.

I mean, a notary is not really gonna if you look at our website there, he's coming off our the AAU website, and he can certify the thread out from that website.

I would think, I mean, I I could get something like this.

Oh okay.

To repeat what he said because he's not at the microphone, and the people doing these minutes later are gonna hate our guts.

Um, just come say it again.

I had I'm sick, I can't repeat that.

All right.

Uh my name is Jim Rose.

Um, I live in Blyville, uh 1712 Country Club Road.

Um, we can um I'm assuming I can go to uh uh uh notary republic, use the website, show the numbers, print off, and and they would certify that if you're a notary won't work because a notary is just certifying your signature, they're not certifying the numbers on a form.

Okay, so I just didn't know if there's a way to certify them on their website or to get them to be able to do that.

And there's no way to go back and get a point in time number that I found out backwards.

So we can only work at the current time, or you tell me a date in the future, and we can lock in that time.

So maybe that's why we've been unsuccessful in getting numbers from my.

I mean you just put that on the record.

I did not.

Um but but it is.

I mean, there's AAU is a big deal, and there's a lot going through with with AAU, much more so than USA swim.

And so it is uh a very uh challenging position for him to be in all the time to answer everyone's questions.

What's the desire of the uh Madam City Attorney?

Are you just gonna weigh AAU and USA evenly, just combine the two numbers, or what are you how how are you thinking about that on the division?

Whatever y'all tell me to do.

Well, the USA numbers would include a we we have uh swimmers who are doing.

They do both.

Most of them do do both.

All the all of our USA swimmers are in fact AAU certified.

You think I mean I can't ask you to tell us for SWAT, but you think they would give us a similar answer when we're gonna do that.

I would think so because you have to swim as you if you become an AU certified club or a USA certified club, you have to have insurance, and you get that from those two organizations, we get it through AAU, so we require all of our swimmers to be AAU certified to make sure that we're s anything that happens on deck, we have the insurance to cover that.

We don't require everyone to be USA certified because that tends to be the the older, uh more senior swimmers, and it costs like a hundred dollars and AAU costs twenty-five dollars.

So we we make it maybe AAU is the more accurate.

Are we kind of back where we started what you said about what Brian said?

I mean, if the swimmers are in Mountain Home or Pocahontas not swimming in our pool and we're counting them or whatever, should we have a city waiver?

Does that well AAU give us the address?

Uh I was just looking, someone asked me that just a minute ago.

The the list that I have on my iPad now does not show a list.

I can go back and check to see if it shows in there somewhere, but the list I just pulled up to me like say two minutes.

Because I mean I think that's a valid question.

I think both swim teams have swimmers that would be in AAU that aren't swimming here in Jonesboro that are part of your teams that swim because both of you have programs in other cities, correct?

Well, we have a couple of swimmers in other cities who swim with us for some of the meets.

We have two swimmers at a Mountain Home which swim with us for USA meets because Mountain Home does not have a USA team.

They do not practice with us, and we have a young lady who was with the Jets previously and they moved to Mississippi Olive Branch, and she stayed with the Jets and swimmed with meets with us, but she's not gonna do so this year, but she would show on a list.

So we would have three swimmers on our list who in fact practice every day at another location.

And I would assume SWAT would have at least because they have Pocahontas, I would assume they would have five or six swimmers, maybe seven that but you don't have concerns that those are gonna show up on their A.

I'm sure they will show up on their list, but to tell you the truth, I mean uh that's a minor issue for us.

I mean, you know, we're looking at 158 swimmers, and I'm thinking SWAT maybe has 50, and so if six of those should be taken off to us, it's not that big a deal.

I mean, we're looking at 160 and they're looking at 50.

So we're we wouldn't we would not challenge that.

So have so you tell them let me get a pen.

Do we need a motion to like or we need to?

I mean, this is just a communication.

You just need direction.

So what you're asking is that we amend the contract to use AAU numbers.

As of what is today?

So as of well, but they are gonna but I guess if we had to get to a number now, it would be to you're like the most recent number.

May 7th.

The most recent number.

And then June 30.

August 31st.

Would there be a reason to look at them after that?

Do you think?

Okay.

Lane usage will be assigned based on those percentages.

Then how will you adjust the billing to them accordingly?

Well, Jim, come back up.

So what we had attempted to do was come up with a flat lien rate based upon what our heating expenses were.

Don't ask me to do math, but it was a little bit convoluted for last year.

We didn't even care if we lose a little money.

We just don't want to lose a lot of money.

Um because I think we can all assume heating costs may go up this year based on everything else going up this year.

Um but what we were trying to do is make that fair.

Explain your numbers first.

Explain your numbers first, and then we'll talk about what their concern was, even though they're not here.

I think it's valid for y'all to hear what their concern was.

So what we did is the the SWAT last year chose to swim through October.

So we took the January through October heating bill, totaled it divided it by two, and then added the 4,000, which was their contract for last year.

And so we came up, but it came up to like $17,000.

And so we just we rounded it up to $2,000 per lane, is what we did.

And then the jets who have chose to swim past October at the pool, they assumed the complete heating bill for November-December, which was nearly $10,000 for the gas bill.

And so they they absorbed that themselves.

So we tried to make it fair to the SWAT based on the time that they swam and the heating bill.

Um and so that's how we came up with the $20,000.

That was our first attempt at coming up with the number.

That is correct.

My first attempt.

That is correct.

And so then they questioned that number.

Because they didn't swim till March.

Because they didn't swim till March of that year.

And I think what numbers, what what dates they came back with us with dates that they wanted actually in the contract for this year for their use of that.

They wanted it to be May 1st, October 31st, so they want May 1st to October 31st.

Is that what it said?

I think that's what it said.

How do we account for using the heater for other purposes that aren't related to the two swim teams?

They wanted it May 1st, October 1st.

May 1st to October 1st is what they want their primary usage period to be.

Correct.

And I I'm assuming they're not going to change that.

But if they do, we can adjust.

I'm sorry, I was looking at Carol.

I should ask you, Jim.

She's like, I'm not the pool heater.

I don't know when that's a good thing.

How do we account for the pool heater cost for other purposes that aren't related to the two swim teams?

It probably wouldn't be used if it wasn't for the swim team.

That's what I figured, but correct.

If if we were just swimming from May to September, most likely would not run the heater.

I mean, the the pool, the pool water temperature is typically from May to September would be fine.

The heater runs very minimally.

It's outside of that time before the temperature outside gets warm that we really crank up the it's about five thousand dollars a month November, December.

So what would swim in January?

If they choose to swim in January, February.

So last year what we did is we charged how much a year?

It was 4,000 per contract.

So it was 4,000 per year each.

With they each divide the heater in half if they are in the pool.

It was like an algebraic equation.

But they figured it out.

But the problem is I don't the reason we went to a lane, don't talk to me math right now.

The reason we went to a per lane usage attempt is because to me it shouldn't be 4,000 and 4,000 if one is gonna end up with six lanes and one in four or one in seven and one in three or whatever that might be.

Correct.

We needed to try to come up with a per lane usage.

And so we wanted to then make it easier on everyone to try to incorporate the heat into that, which didn't oh they're gonna yell at us, it's 5 30, which didn't um I I don't know how you do that.

It was $9,167 for the first 10 months of the year, January through October was the gas bill, and then the gas bill um November, December, the total gas bill was 10,746 dollars.

So do you have a suggestion of a fair way to put the cost in if we go back to each team splitting the cost of the heat for the time that they have during their primary usage period, and then Jet, I assume would be willing to take over the heat for if they're using it and they're the only ones using it the rest of the year.

That's right.

There was a comment made by um coach of the SWAT that he wasn't aware he could swim past October one.

But we made them aware that we knew that and they came back saying they only wanted it until October 11.

They chose to swim, then we would have to come back and look at that.

I just say we we allocated the heating cost for the month based upon the number of swimmers they they number of lanes they had that month.

I mean just to have them pay for it after the fact and leave the but we've got to adjust our $2,000 lane usage fee because that was anticipating including heat.

Well take it out so do we want to so what do we charge per lane?

Take it out and just say the the heating bill will be added on to you said how how much was it for the year?

For the years close to 20 thousand okay you do 12 months two thousand that's two thousand dollars okay so let's go back to the easy math so we have 10 lanes yep if we last year they paid four thousand dollars for the year plus heating so that adds up to 8,000 which is not mathable for me.

Mathable but because we inflation we now charge 5000 would have been our contract if we were splitting 5050 and we say a thousand dollars per lane plus the heating bill does that make sense you got 10 lanes that's a thousand dollars per lane however that Dibby's up and then they split the heating bill for the time that they're using the pool.

Yeah.

Does that sound fair?

Yep Carol I got one more provision don't throw anything at me I'm sorry.

I think that I would like to see um a a due diligence clause built into this based off the AAU numbers that at any given time that we can ask for certification of those numbers or to provide proof of those individuals just in case a lot of Joe Smith start showing up on rosters.

They pay up monthly we how often do you pay an AAU number membership monthly?

Yes yes sorry meetings are recorded and broadcast so that's why we have to do okay we we bill on a monthly basis and we bill it through our billing uh software program called team unify which I believe is the same software almost all swim teams use and uh so that is a monthly billing again all of our swimmers who are billed are AAU registered because we need that for insurance purposes so we could we you can check the numbers I can give you that number.

So if you lost members it would be in your best interest to take them off so that you're not having to pay for them.

Well we don't have we have to pay a small service fee to team unify of like three dollars a swimmer we don't have to pay a monthly fee to AAU that is a year membership that goes from August um sorry September 1st through uh August 31st and USA swimming goes from January 1st to December 31st.

So we do not pay a monthly charge to those organizations it's a yearly fee that we pay.

So why would the numbers fluctuate so much just because people might switch teams and would want to or people might join later but as a gentleman i they don't they won't switch that much you know you you may have three to six swimmers switch teams or drop out or give up but once they paid there they stay on that roster now you can uh physically change from one team to another most people don't do that because your AU registration just kind of carries with you but yes that is possible but it maybe it's the so people quit they're probably still going to be reflected on your AA they would still be reflected because that's because they they are registered for a year so they would drop off at the end of August at the end of okay with them both teams I don't know yeah that would be for both teams yeah that would be that one would question Mr.

Chairman uh if if we are going to determine the lane division by a date in the future which is two days from today is there a possibility that one team might juice their numbers to that was why we were trying to pick last year's numbers but that was I think I'd have to register a but a bunch of eight people I mean I don't think I I would hope they wouldn't do that.

I mean I would hope neither one would do that no I would we've been surprised I would find that doubtful I would be shocked if somebody would go to that level of subterfuge to to uh on the lane discussion I mean I I would you know it's not something we would do and you know will and I are you know butt heads occasionally and I don't think it's something he would really do so I mean could you do it as of 9 a.m tomorrow eight a course I could all sign up tonight I guess not knowing how the website works so well I don't know and you know you guys do I'm just gonna say I don't know.

We just need to get this in the same request though so we did have in the last two weeks we had swimming tryouts so we have added 60 swimmers trust and verify but they're all signed yeah 30 days to sign up for AU so they're still signing up so we're at 158 we anticipate like one 701 eighty we'll give you the actual numbers they're actually signed up for today where they're actually are and they they've come on board in the last two weeks that takes a while for the new parents to learn how to do AAU registration.

So yes there are some that we have today on there but feel free to call each one of them and and verify they're actually active swimmers.

All right I'm gonna go ahead and call this to a conclusion just final final comment.

Final comment we can give you an AAU list that shows from the AEU organization.

We can give you an AAU list that shows from the AEU organization.

It does not give you as I found that the home address of the person, but I can also give you a printout from our two team unify billing program, which will give you the name of the parent and the address and that the details of that particular uh member.

So that is a part you'd have to double check that if it's something you want to consider.

If we're talking about five kids or I don't think I don't think that's not that's kind of a non-issue.

But if the other team raises that as a concern, we will take that extra.

Again, five kids, we're not gonna worry about it.

We just want to be able to do that.

I'm just offering you an alternative.

We appreciate that.

All right, thank you.

All right.

We're gonna call it to an end.

Is there a motion to adjourn?

So moved.

Second.

Second.

All in favor, say aye.

Aye.

We stand adjourned.

Let's take