This meeting is being transcribed and summarized.

It's now 6 p.m.

I'd like to call to order the regional planning commission business meeting for June the 11th.

And like I said, it's a little after 6.

And that's customary.

We always start with the pledge.

I'll ask Mr.

Gauvery tonight if he'll lead us in the pledge.

And two nation under God is this with number two.

Sarah, now come to you for roll call and determination of quorum.

Mr.

Peterman.

Present.

Mr.

Sarvan.

Present.

Mrs.

Carcher.

Present.

Mr.

Crawfry.

Here.

Mr.

Mills.

President.

Mr.

Davis.

Mr.

Jester.

Here.

Sir, you have seven present.

You do have a quorum.

Because we have a large larger audience tonight.

I ask if you have a cell phone that you either put it on vibrate or turn it off so he won't disturb us during our meeting.

We now have in front of you, Commissioners, the agenda for tonight.

If there's no additions or corrections, I entertain a motion and a second.

Who does accept?

Second.

Sir, I have a motion.

Go ahead and call the commission.

Mr.

Peterman.

Yes.

Mr.

Servon?

Yes.

Mrs.

Carcher?

Yes.

Mr.

Crawford?

Yes.

Mr.

Mills?

Yes.

Mr.

Davis?

Yes.

Mr.

Jester.

Yes.

So you have seven is in favor of approving tonight's agenda.

Also, Commissioners, you also have the amendment for May the 14th.

If there aren't any corrections, additions, or subtractions, I'll entertain a motion to approve them and a second.

Motion to approve the minutes.

I have a motion to approve the minutes.

Call the commission.

Mr.

Peterman.

Yes to approve.

Mr.

Servon.

Yes to approve.

Mrs.

Carcher.

Not voting.

And at this time, I'd also like to say that I did listen and watch the videos of both of those meetings last month.

Mr.

Crawfry.

Yes to approve.

Mr.

Mills.

Yes to approve.

Mr.

Davis?

Yes to approve.

Mr.

Jester.

Yes to approve.

So you have six A's, one not voting?

In favor of approving the minutes of May 14th.

According to the agenda, there was no levy court action.

So we'll go right into old business.

And being this project was tabled, I'll have to have a motion to bring it off the table.

So move.

Second.

I have a motion and a second to bring it off the table.

Please ask the commission.

Mr.

Peterman.

Yes.

Mr.

Servon?

Yes.

Mrs.

Carter?

Yes.

Mr.

Cauvery?

Yes.

Mr.

Mills.

Yes.

Mr.

Davis.

Yes, take it off the table.

Mr.

Jester.

Yes.

So you have seven is in favor of lifting application SL 2602 from the table.

We'll now get into pintail crossing, the request for a preliminary approval of a 52-lot major subdivision and a one single family located inside the growth zone.

We had a lot of conversation last week.

There was a lot of public testimony.

And since that time, we have asked and received from our from their attorney and their uh engineer that the two requests that we were looking at, the re relocation of the bus stop cannot be done because the school district doesn't approve that.

And also that the uh connection out to the Barrett's Chapel Road.

Uh Dell Dot is also turned them down on that.

Having said that, I've had some commissioners that would like to speak.

The first one I'm going to recognize tonight to speak is Mr.

Mills.

Okay, the engineer was asking the questions to the engineers of overdone.

Uh customarily wouldn't.

I thought you just had a statement because I don't usually call anybody up to the microphone.

Okay.

If you need him up there, I can get him up there.

Okay.

Well, it's going to be a question asked rather than it's up to you.

Well, if he he can't answer it unless he's at the microphone.

So I'll ask the engineer for the project to come to the microphone.

I think you were probably the one sworn in last week.

So you just give us your name and address and we'll know who you are.

Sure.

Doug Barry, Pannoni Associates 121 Continental Drive in New York.

Okay, thank you.

The question is is where this uh bus stop is going to be.

Like I say, uh I've been in the bus business for quite a few years, and I have talked to three other transportation supervisors today to you uh in the last couple days.

And where this bus stop is located is in a uh uh hazardous area.

And what I'm getting at from the hazardous area is on code 31.124 of the safety dollar school bus uh not the associated dollar state safety code says bus stops in a curve should be visible from both directions of 500 miles if it's less than 35 miles or 1,000 feet if it's over 35 miles.

That curve, best I have looked, is 300 and some feet from the curve where that bus stop is going to be.

That is doesn't justify being able to pick up kids in that area.

And I've talked to other contractors.

I talked to the largest contractor in Lake Forest School District.

And if it's in a hazardous area, so they can refuse to pick up kids in that area.

Stop.

The question is is can you tell me the footage on that before that curve?

You can see the curve up on the picture right there.

Sure.

May I have a minutes to consulting my client?

Okay.

So when we did meet with Delta discuss entrances and bus stops, and since that time, we've actually come up with an alternative bus stop design.

Um if it would please the commission, I can hand out exhibits which show that.

Yeah, I think that would be a great idea because the question is directed directly to you.

And customarily we don't have you come up at our business meeting, but this is a question that needs to be answered.

Sure.

So Sarah?

So as are being circulated.

The the school district was adamant that they didn't want they did not want buses circulating through the subdivision.

So the initial conversations were to have a bus stop out on McGuinness Pond Road and talking to Delta.

They asked us to relocate that inside the subdivision, which is shown on the exhibit.

It's basically 60 feet inside where the the entrance stops.

That's the length of a school bus.

And we're also proposing to have like a bench, concrete sidewalk sitting area for the students.

Could you pull the micro down?

We're having trouble hearing you.

Sorry about that.

Um so the bus stop is located 60 feet from the entrance, which is in accordance with Delta regulations for bus stops.

We're also proposing a concrete sidewalk with benches so they can safely wait for the bus for the buses to arrive, and then there's the eyelid call de sac for the bus stop or excuse me for the buses to get out back on the McGinnis Pond Road, so they won't circulate through the subdivision.

And that call de sac is on open space, it's not on private property.

You understand the drawing, Mr.

Mills?

I sure do.

That's correct.

And then the bus leaves that bus stop and goes continues on, and I don't see it on the map here where it turns around.

Correct.

There's a call de sac just to the northwest of the bus stop.

You see the crosswalk and the handicap ramps.

That's a uh a a 38 rate 38-foot radius call-de-sac that's designed accordance with Dell Dot and Kent County standards.

Sheds a different light on the whole thing.

Thank you.

Are you okay with this, Mr.

Mills?

Hold the mic.

Yes, I am more than satisfied with this.

Thank you very much.

Thank you for your additional information.

You're welcome.

It would have been nice to have it so we could see it earlier.

Yeah, we were pressed for time.

I understand that.

CAD drawing is a quite a different animal now than it used to be.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you for that.

I don't know if you have any more questions, but uh is any other commissioners like to speak?

Raise your hand and I'll identify you.

Mr.

Mitt Mr.

Davis.

Well, I appreciate you doing this, because I I, for one, had major concerns about the safety of the children.

So I guess you're still going to have the de-exhilaration lane, is that correct?

That's correct.

So your plans where the bus was going to be sitting up on the easement, is that going to be removed?

Yeah, that's gone.

So if you look just up to the north, it says uh five by ten concrete slab with bench, that's the actual sitting area.

And then the cul-de-sac is just to the northwest of that for the bus to circulate back on the McGinnis Pond Road.

I I do have a question.

Um I've been out there numerous times.

And uh I actually took a tape measure and Mr.

Mills is 100% correct.

There's uh 312 feet.

If you look at your design map, it's one inch for every 50 feet, and it comes out to Bay Proxy 312 feet, which uh involves that curve in the road that we had a major concern about.

Um I guess uh having said that uh where do you plan on once you pick the children up, you're coming back out that same street that you came into?

Is that what you're saying?

That's correct.

Okay.

Um, we did a lot of research on this thing, so this does change the picture.

Uh I commend you for that.

Thank you.

Because um my uh my vote for this was gonna be a no.

And it was because of the school bus.

So I'm I'm pleased that you know you did that.

I I actually wanted my diagram of the old entrance put up, but I don't think we're gonna need that now, Mark.

I studied that pretty thoroughly.

But what what I don't understand, just for curiosity, I have nothing to do with the buses.

Uh that road is 24 feet wide and has no shoulders.

And I was somewhat puzzled how you're going to get a 10-foot de-acceleration lane in there.

How are you going to do that?

Coming out of the subdivision?

The out front where the uh where you go into the uh the entrance.

Right.

You have a de-acceleration lane.

And I couldn't see where you got the numbers.

People want to get in the right lane to make a right turn into the development.

I couldn't figure out how you got that unless you're going to fill that ditch up with water.

Is that what you're going to do?

Yes, so the entrance design is shown conceptually.

We haven't submitted detail and detailed.

You must speak up.

I said the entrance design is shown conceptually.

It hasn't been designed or submitted to Dell Dot yet.

We're trying to get preliminary approval first.

So that right turn lane will be designed in accordance with Delta regulations for the amount of trips we're generating by the subdivision.

And similarly, whatever we need coming out will be designed in accordance with the state regs.

Now getting back to the 24-foot wide street.

Is that a cement barrier in the middle of that road?

So you can make a right turn.

No, that's a bike lane.

That is a what?

That's a bike, a five-foot bike lane.

Oh, it's a bike lane in the middle of the road?

In the middle of the road.

Well, maybe not.

Well, anyhow, um I'm glad you did this, because uh I think you may have had some issues if you hadn't done this.

In fact, I know you would have from my side.

So Mr.

President.

But have the map pulled up on the screen up there so we could see the money.

Yeah, that's uh Mark.

What?

But that intersection, Mark, the one I gave you, just put it up.

There we go.

That's the one that shows the culture.

The one that shows the cul-de-sac.

Oh, show the one with the cul-de-sac.

Yeah, I'm sorry.

That's the I only have that on paper.

I think it's only on paper.

He hadn't changed it.

But you're adding the cul-de-sac, it's not the one that's existing on the drawing.

That's correct.

So the bus stop will come out from where it's highlighted now and be relocated into the subdivision as shown on your print.

Probably right there where you got open space written.

That's correct.

That's exactly where it's going.

And the last question I have, sir.

When you pick these children up, is there any possibility you're gonna go out there and use that stub that goes into that neighbor, but in the school bus are there?

But in the school bus are there.

That's the whole intent for this cul-de-sac is to prevent that from happening.

Call-de-sac.

I don't see a cul-de-sac here.

Yeah, but my question is if you go if you go in.

Or you're going to run that bus through the neighbors that has a stub going to the next development.

Are you going to run through there?

I don't think the developer would be against putting a sign that says no through bus movements.

You've got to speak out, I'm sorry.

I said I don't think the developer would be against installing signs to say no through bus movements to pin tail crossing.

So are they going in or they're not going in?

They they will not.

That's a different school district, so we would try to prevent that from happening.

So they would not be going in the neighbors property.

No, they will not.

I understand there's an issue pending about a sign that's going to be put up that infringes on their property.

Is that going to be set back to be on your property?

Is that the future connection to street stub sign?

Is that what it's actually there now?

Beg pardon?

It's there now.

Actually, I actually have a photograph of it.

I know, but isn't it infringing on their property?

Uh on our property?

On theirs, the neighbors.

Uh usually they put it right on the property line where we're two inter interconnecting streets will connect.

Uh so I don't I don't we didn't survey the physical future street to connection sign, but I would think it's on their property, yes, since they developed first.

So let me ask you this.

If you're not going to use the stub, that's what you're saying, right?

You're not going to use it.

For buses.

For buses.

Buses.

But you still gonna want to use it for the cars.

Dell dot has told us we cannot remove that interconnection.

Uh I'm sorry, you have to speak up.

So Dell Dot has told us that we cannot remove that interconnection.

So are the cars going to be going through that development?

Well, I'm not sure.

Yes or no.

I and I put this in right.

I don't think it's going to be used at all much because whoever who's ever accessing McGinnis Pond Road from this subdivision will use McGuinness Pond Road entrance.

There's no reason to use a circuitous route through that adjacent subdivision to get the McGinnis Pond Road.

They would use that direct access that they have.

So if you're not going to use the stub, could you put these there so people wouldn't try to use it?

Or a fence.

I think that's a Dell dot call.

They they want that interconnection.

They want that through movement as a possibility, mostly for safety concerns.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you, Mr.

You're welcome, sir.

I think Mr.

Gauvery would like to speak.

Yes.

Um, in regards to the I appreciate the drawing and the concept of how the school bus will come in, that alleviates some of the problems that a few of us have, maybe even all of us have had.

Um the cul-de-sac, which isn't on this drawing, and the entrance that you've just given us.

Um these are preliminary concepts that you're putting forth as a way of solving the problem.

Right.

But has Dell Dot seen these yet?

Uh no, we have not formally submitted design plans to them yet.

The first step would be to get preliminary approval, then go with them with what we've learned and present our design plans to them.

So the I guess the issue that I I have is that um without Dell DOT's approval, I kind of go back to where I was when I walked into this room.

I have promise now.

I mean one thing you need to understand is we don't usually have this dialogue on this night.

This is usually between ourselves.

But we're trying really, really hard to try to be open-minded to all the issues that are involved.

And it's it's reassuring that you've come with a solution, but the solution is it has not been approved.

It may not be approved.

So if we were to approve this project on the on a preliminary basis, and then Dell DOT doesn't give you that.

Um I have an issue with that.

I have a problem with that.

But okay.

That's all I have.

That's all you have, Mr.

Garvey.

I think Denise, you'd like to talk.

So this is preliminary approval.

Sarah.

It seems to me that we've been given enough information that we can include that in a motion.

So that we know and Dell DOT and many of the other other entities, they wait for us to approve preliminarily before it goes to any of them.

So I think you're asking for something that has never been done before.

Yes.

Right.

Is any other commissioners like to speak?

I certainly commend you on what you've done in the work you've done.

The only thing I say about this turnaround for the buses in the cul-de-sac, there might be some kids that are walking down the south sidewalk.

So are you going to put pedestrian crossings on both sides of where they're picking the kids up?

Right.

So there's a crosswalk and then there's two ADA ramps on both sides.

I haven't seen it on here, but I assume that's what you're going to do.

Yes, correct.

Understand about connector on that.

You know, our hands sometimes because we're appointed by our people and our levy court commissioners, and we might not be happy either.

And sometimes Dell Dot overrules us with some things we want to get done, but it's just a part of life.

Sometimes we have to accept it too.

So I know how some of these people are feeling sitting out here because we're not getting everything we want either, but you have stepped up on the school bus issue and we commend you on that.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I think that's all.

If there's no more questions and all, then I'll entertain a motion about pin tail crossing.

Somebody would like to make the motion.

Denise Yes.

I'll be happy to.

I moved that the excuse me, the Regional Planning Commission, grant conditional approval of application SL-26-02, pin tail crossing, a preliminary plan for 52-lot major subdivision, duplexes, and a one single family existing located inside the Growth Zone Overlay District.

This is based on exhibit A, staff recommendation reported report, excuse me, dated May 7, 2026.

Exhibit B, the public hearing testimony dated May 7, 2026.

And I will add on to that motion the discussion that has been given tonight regarding a change in the bus stop location and development.

Um the subject is zoned, AZ AC, agricultural conservation, in which a single family residential subdivision, including the development of duplexes, is a permitted use.

And B, the application complies with the Kent County Comprehensive Plan, future land use map.

C, the applicant agree to staff recommendations to relocate the pump station to the east, reloc to relocate the act of open space further west so that it is outside of the stormwater easement area and not directly behind two of the residential lots and more easily accessible to the residents.

Three, extend the walking path, extend the walking path that should be around the proposed stormwater pond and provide connections to I might say it wrong, Mayan Zenora Road and or Pedov Real Way.

Four, clearly demarcate pedestrian paths that are but lot lines with fencing or landscaping.

And pursuant to Chapter 205 of the Kent County Code and pursuant to nine Delaware chapters 4802 and 4811, the commission has reviewed the application.

And furthermore, as part of this approval, the applicant shall comply with all staff and agency requirements and planning staff recommendations as described in the May 7th, 2026 staff recommendation report, including but not limited to the following conditions.

A the waiver from 187-5314, Table X-3, requiring that stormwater management ponds and basins meet a minimum distance of 100 feet from the nearest residential dwelling setback line is granted.

The stormwater ponds shall be 40 feet from the nearest residential dwelling setback line.

And B, street street trees shall be planted and inspected prior to the issuance of a certificate of occupancy for the individual lots where street trees are proposed.

And I will repeat something I already said earlier in the motion, and that is that per tonight's discussion that there will be a change in the bus stop relocation as seen in the uh drawing that was that was provided to us.

I have a motion.

Do I have a question?

With your question.

Um we're voting on something that I haven't heard him mention.

It's been approved by the lake forest school district.

Or Polytech, and I think that should be included in the motion as an amendment.

We he said it's gonna happen.

We've got a picture.

in the uh drawing that was that was provided to us I have a motion do I have a I have a question with your question um we're voting on something that I haven't heard him mention that's been approved by the Lake Forest School District that or Polytech and I think that should be included in the motion as an amendment we he said it's going to happen we've got a picture but I didn't see no documentation from the school district they're going to approve it and they have to approve it thank you Denise would you like to amend your motion that's fine with me addition to the motion will be also adapted by the school district that it encompasses correct yes so with that motion and all the corrections do I have a second still looking for a second I'll second the motion I have a motion and a second with the additions as made by tonight's drawing and with the comments of Mr.

Davis made about the Lake Forest School District.

Sarah call the commission Mr Peterman yes to approve Mr Sergon yes to approve Mrs.

Carcher yes to approve Mr.

Galfrey no Mr.

Mills I'm voting no based on the fact I do appreciate them changing it but there is no documentation of Lake Forest or Polytech accepting this new proposal Mr.

Davis I vote yes with a condition with my vote that we get a letter from Lake Forest School District that they approve this voting for something that is good and it made some corrections and I appreciate that but I want to see the documentation on the uh the bus driver coordinator for Lake Forest saying they approve this within 60 days of this vote tonight.

Mr Jester Yes per the motion and amendments handed to us so you have five A's two nays in favor of granting conditional approval of application SL2602 thank you all thank the engineers thank the developer for what they've changed and also thank you as the audience for giving us the information that we had to address by tonight we might not be happy with everything we got but we got a lot of things changed so thank you and welcome to your good luck on your project Mr.

Chair before you go on to the next one I I made a mistake last week and I wanted to I wanted to clarify it for the commission just for going forward.

This is our attorney speaking so we make sure we don't have to with no voice either by the way we had had a discussion about whether or not you could extend for 30 days or 60 days you remember that and I said I'd rather it be 30 days and I'm glad I did because there's a provision within the state code and also within the county code of which I was not aware at that time which requires that if you don't take action after the first after the public hearing for 45 days the application is presumed approved.

So going forward we cannot extend more than 30 days and I just wanted you to be aware of that.

I appreciate that correction also is quite different because I've never heard that well I didn't know either Sarah pointed out and I looked in the state code and there's one in the state code and there's one in the county code so going forward I just wanted you to be aware that that's there.

That's why you get the big bucks here I guess that's why Sarah gets the Sarah gets the Sarah knew it.

I didn't vote I think Mr.

Davis wants to say something.

Make sure I get this clarified they have 30 days to report back with a approval from Lake Forest School District.

Is that what you're saying?

No this has nothing to do with Lake Forest School District or any of that.

What last time there was a question that was posed to me it says can we extend for 60 days?

And I said I would be much more comfortable with 30 days and that's ultimately what you did.

And I'm glad that happened because under the county code and under the state code if the if the RPC does not act within 45 days and you acted this evening the application is deemed approved okay thank you thank you all and I also thank the commissioners for their professionalism in dealing with this project it was very difficult and whether we're happy or not not that's not another discussion.

We'll now go on to new business for tonight Carter's Creek request for a major subdivision approval of a 41 single family lot residential development located inside the Growth Zone Overlay District we have a motion I think the engineer and all in that project was very willing to work with the residents and I think we got a lot of what they talked about if you all can hold it down a little bit we'll have to try to finish our meeting we now go into this Carter Creek and there's a motion that we need to make is anyone like here would like to make the motion Mr.

Mr.

Gauver.

Mr.

Mills, you want to make the motion?

Okay.

Here we go.

For Carter Creek.

SL-26-05 Carter Creek motion.

I move that the Regional Planning Commission grant conditional approval of the application.

SL 26-05.

Carter Creek, a preliminary plan for a 40 lot single family residential development located inside the groove zone overlay district.

This is based on exhibit A.

Staff Recommendation Report dated June 4, 2026.

Public hearing testimony dated June 4th, 2026, and the font of the facts that A.

The subject site is Zone AR, Agriculture Residential, in which a single family residential subdivision is a permitted use.

The application complies with the Kent County Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map.

The application agrees to the staff recommendations too.

Limited tree clearing from April the 1st to July 31st to reduce impact to nesting birds and other wildlife species that utilize forest for breeding as recommended by the division of Fish and Wildlife.

The applicant has proposed installing a mix of fencing and perimeter landscaping as shown on exhibit submitted June 8th, 2026.

The additional improvements are not required by code, but were requested by the adjacent property owners.

The commission has reviewed the application and furthermore, as part of this approval, the applicant shall comply with all staff and agency recommend requirements and planning staff recommendations as described in the June 4th, 2026 staff recommendations.

Report including but not limited to the following condition.

The waiver from code 187-531-4 tabled X3, requiring that stormwater management ponds basins meet a minimum distance of 100 feet from the nearest residential dwelling setback lawn is approved.

The stormwater pond shall be a minimum of 35 feet from the nearest residential dwelling setback lawn.

The waiver from 187-78B to requiring a 100 brip buffer is approved to permit construction of the subdivision entrance, a portion of the street which side with sidewalks and a portion of the act of open space improvements.

A buffer of at least 40 feet shall be maintained.

The waiver from 187-60D requiring that the sidewalks be installed on both sides of the residential collector street is approved for a small portion of the sidewalks on the northern edge of Carter Drive as shown on the preliminary plan.

Provided a crosswalk is installed at the beginning of the northern sidewalk.

I have a motion.

Do I have a second?

Second.

I have a second by Mr.

Davis.

Sarah called the commission.

Mr.

Peterman.

Yes to approve.

Mr.

Servant.

Yes to approve.

Mrs.

Carcher?

Yes to approve.

Mr.

Calper.

Yes to approve.

Mr.

Mills?

Yes to approve.

Mr.

Davis.

Yes to approve.

Mr.

Jester.

Yes to approve.

So we have seven news in favor of granting conditional approval to SL 2605.

Thank you for everyone with that, and good luck on your construction of your project.

We're now down on the agenda to public comment.

Is there anybody here who would like to come forward?

I'll have to ask my attorney.

Do they have to be sworn in when he's just giving public comment?

I have in the past, but I don't think you need to do that, so I think we're okay with just allowing public comment.

All right.

And but just for reminder, your limit is five minutes, right?

Yeah, they have five minutes to give your presentation.

Okay.

And please pull the mic up to your face.

We'll do.

Thank you.

Welcome back.

Thank you.

Good evening.

I want to say you do need to give your name, though.

Oh, yeah.

I'm Shannon Ritter.

That's good enough.

Okay.

I want to begin by simply saying thank you, and I do it with tears filled in my eyes.

I want to thank several people.

To the commissioners.

You take your job very seriously, and we're grateful.

Thank you for showing up in our neighborhood.

Not just reviewing these plans on paper.

Thank you for coming during an evening commute.

You came when our children stepped off that bus, not just when it might be convenient.

Thank you for acknowledging our genuine safety concerns, our kids getting off the bus with no bus pad, no sidewalks, and no road with curbs, just 22 feet.

Thank you for doing your job for us.

The way you would want it done for your own children and for your grandchildren.

Thank you for making the phone calls, reading the codes, and standing up for the Kent County residents, like my family and neighbors, even in the face of opposition.

Also, thank you to Senator Buxton, who is still in the General Assembly.

Um for his support, and I'll thank him again.

But most importantly, thank you to my neighbors.

Thank you for making this a community and not just a neighborhood.

Thank you for participating in the democracy.

And as the commissioners have said several months ago, this many people have never shown up to participate in this process.

Thank you to my 55 neighbors in a 38-house development.

Thank you for missing your kids' sport games.

Thank you for working together.

Thank you for planning.

Again and again.

Someone drove from Vermont to be home to attend this meeting.

They've skipped golf games.

Thank you to our neighbors who logged in on WebEx from vacation, from work, from the beach.

Thank you for spending hundreds of hours trying to obtain legal counsel.

Thank you to the engineer.

Who he spoke to and told us that Mr.

Ashburn wants to be a good neighbor.

And tonight, in that plan that he submitted that you approved, he says he's going to put a vinyl fence on our property, five feet into his property.

That's what you approved.

We aren't not just neighbors.

We're a community.

And to the kids, the ones who have sat through these long slow, sometimes frustrating meetings, I want you to know something.

You have watched your parents and your neighbors work together to stand up for what's right.

The thing is, over and over again, we've been told there's no way to stop this.

But democracy, the kind you learn about in school, democracy comes from the Greek words demos, people, and Kratos, power of rule.

Literally, rule by the people.

At its core, democracy is a system of government in which power is held by the people, either exercised directly, or through freely elected representatives who appoint these commissioners.

As established through court filings with a Delaware Supreme Court against Sussex County Levy Court, and we know by who, the process is not designed to be a rubber stamp.

Compliance with cloth with code is a floor.

It is not a finish line.

Who live with the consequences?

The consequences here are real.

So to my daughters, my community, the kids, and the commissioners.

I hope that when you're faced with a huge corporation operating under the guise of small businesses, or a single person who says it can't be done.

I hope you look back on this moment.

Remember how your community exercised their democratic right and spoke up, especially when their knees were shaking.

My community is not done.

We will continue to work to protect the people, the people that are already here, as well as those future residents.

For that, we are grateful.

We are encouraged, and we're still standing right there.

But you're doing so great, and the emotions and all.

And you're patting us on the back.

Usually we get stabbed in the bag and not patted on the back.

So we certainly thank you for your presentation, your talk.

I know that you did your job and you did it well.

And for that, we're grateful.

Thanks again very much.

Thank you so much.

Is there anyone else here would like to speak?

Come to the mic and give us your name.

Good evening.

I'm Dewey Barish.

Keep the mic up to you.

Absolutely.

Is that better?

We got it.

We're good.

I too would like to thank all of you.

Some of you may recall I'm the president of the Pintail Point HOA.

Want to thank everyone for all of the time that they've invested in this.

It's been an amazing experience.

I believe it was Commissioner Davis was just in our community yesterday.

I regret I didn't get to connect with you then, but maybe on another occasion.

I want to address two things tonight.

The first is, as Shannon just brought up, the current proposal is placing a fence on our property.

We have not been consulted about this.

We do not consent to this.

The plan says that maintenance of that fence will be our responsibility.

That is not a consistent position to regard our property rights.

That land they are proposing to put that fence on is ours, not theirs.

We have not consented.

We have not been contacted to even have a conversation about it.

So that is something that we're going to have to continue to work on as we move forward.

I have a little concern about any kind of precedent that that might be setting up that a builder can come onto someone else's property, erect a permanent structure, and make it our responsibility to maintain.

So that's clearly something we are going to have to work on as we move forward.

That fence does not entirely mitigate our concerns.

One of the reasons for the proposal of that fence was privacy with our community.

But what they have proposed is of a five-foot-tall split rail vinyl fence.

And that won't that might help to mark a property line, although it appears to me to be five feet inside our property line.

But there is an inevitable consequence that harms school bus safety in our community if and when that Bufflehead stub road is connected to and we pick up traffic from that community.

If you could look at a map of our HOA, when you come north on Buffalhead Drive, you get to a stop sign.

You can turn left or right.

It doesn't ultimately matter.

You meet at a four-way intersection.

That four-way intersection is one of our school bus stops.

If we add traffic to that, then we have greater concern.

I know that the builder, the engineer suggests that people won't use that, but if you look at a broader map, anyone looking to leave that general area and go northeast, that could be into Magnolia, that could be onto State Street up into Dover if they choose that path.

If they're heading northwest towards Camden, they'll easily go on to McGonus Pond Road.

So we're talking about adding a lot of traffic in our community at a school bus stop that has no infrastructure.

We were built before ADA requirements came along, so we have no sidewalks, we have no bus infrastructure.

We're talking about increasing average daily trips.

I've spoken with Dell Dot, and they said that our community was too small when developed to have a traffic study, but they estimate our community generates 360 ADTs, average daily trips.

They also said the new proposed development of Pintail Crossing is also too small to generate a traffic study of its own, but their rule of thumb would be 450.

If there are two entrances to this proposed development, McGuinness Pond Road and this Buffalhead, we're going to pick up a pretty big fraction of that 450.

That's the rule of thumb Dell Dot would suggest.

And they're going to pass by, again, if you look at the map, if they turn left or right, they're going to pass 14 homes in the community, a different set in each case.

But if you also look, we have 38 homes, but 14 of them are off to the northeast.

And within the community, those 14 homes will never see the traffic passing through.

So it's really a traffic burden on 24 homes, not all 38.

And as important as child safety is, I'm so pleased to see so many of you focused on school safety for the proposed community.

But the choice of connecting to us is going to add traffic and impact our safety.

There's a further concern as people are leaving our community and go all the way north on Waterfowl Drive to exit onto Lexington Mill.

That road was not intended for this much traffic, and that too is another issue that we're going to be the ones living with the consequences.

Sir, you're at your five minutes too.

Understood.

Thank you so much for the first time.

I would like to try.

If I can add our current reserve for the central defense installation, can't be put on his property by the contractor, correct?

That's entirely between the developer and those property owners to negotiate.

That's the way it's a good idea.

It appears to have been an offer made by the developer outside of this process.

So I guess that's the thing you'll have to get up with with the uh with the developer himself because it is an agreement between you and him.

And they've never spoken to us.

They have?

They have not.

Well, make sure you stay, try to stay in contact with them or whatever.

They hung up on us.

They've hung up.

Well, I I would assume you can come into planning and they can give a contact number.

Am I right, Mr.

Attorney?

We have the numbers.

Here's the thing.

Absolutely.

All right.

Absolutely agreement.

You can't put a fence on somebody else's property.

Period.

Okay, but as far as him answering their phone calls, that's between them and us.

Between them and him.

Correct.

Some way or another, I don't know if you'll have to obtain legal counsel yourselves to make this move forward or how you work with it, but it's out of our hands.

I can elude on the school buses about what he's talking about, if you don't mind.

Excuse me?

I can answer his question on the school buses passing through his development if you if I can answer that.

Oh, okay.

I didn't know he had going through his development because his children are made to walk out to Lexing Mill, right?

No, sir.

Um, the four-way intersection of Waterfowl Drive, which in that position is running north-south, and Burgansa running east-west.

That is one of our two bus stops inside our community.

That's true.

So they can come in and turn around.

That's your bus stops for Cesarani district.

Correct.

But if you if you if the association says that no Lake Forest bus can come in that development of yours, they they cannot go in it.

In other words, they cannot pass out of this new development into your development on a street that they're talking about going straight through, because that's Lake Forest on this dot, your Caesar Rodney.

And the Lake Forest is all under contractors, contractor, bus contractors.

Understood, but that's not the issue, sir.

You were just talking about if they could pay uh pay us through there.

I'm talking about homeowner car traffic passing through our community, driving right through a school bus stop that has no infrastructure there, and increasing the number of daily trips right through that spot.

And you can understand most of all of us are human.

We all try to drive well, but once you get outside your own community, almost every single one of us get a little lax, and that's one of our concerns.

We have 25 mile an hour speed limits.

Someone comes in there, they've now gone from their community into someone else's.

They could just get lax right as they're passing through a school bus area.

That's where this is very concerned.

We appreciate all your comments.

Thank you very much.

Yes, sir.

Thank you so much.

Anyone else here would like to speak and come oh, she's right there.

I'm Joey Ronard.

Pull the mic down to your face, please.

Joy Roonert, and it's good to see you all.

I live on Mercanser Drive, and I walk my dog every day, and I see the children when they're getting onto the school bus and when they get off the school bus.

And my concern is that Bufflehead access point from the pintail crossing coming through our community and not paying attention to dog walkers, children getting on and off the bus, and just you know, kids playing in the street.

And nobody seems to care.

And I'm very sorry that this has been railroaded through.

And I do appreciate the efforts that you made by coming out and looking at our community, but no one cares about our children like they care about the pintail crossing children.

There are two different school sistricts.

But I took care of a thousand children, many with diabetes and other physical disabilities.

So it's really, I think scary to me to have people coming through from Pintail Crossing through our development after they get their kids on their bus stop that they have in their community to come through Morgancer Drive and Waterfowl to go up Lexington to go up to South State Street.

And we have tried to contact attorneys.

Do we?

The HOA president has contacted many.

Nobody wants to deal with us because they all have prior relationships with Mr.

Ashburn.

So we're being denied due process because we don't have access other than making a pro se uh plea to the courts.

Now I think that part of your job is also to look after our community, which has been established.

And after our children who are in a different school district, and I bet you there'll be at different start times, and I bet you their buses will be at different times.

And I bet you those parents, as soon as they get their kid on the bus, they're gonna hot foot it to work.

And I know they'll be coming down Bufflehead onto Morgancer off a waterfowl, and I don't know what might happen.

But nobody will be concerned until a child is hurt.

And I just want to say that you're also protecting our rights.

So thank you for listening.

Thank you, ma'am.

And you say your HOA is active.

That would probably be officially the way to go with anything dealing with buses, being it's already an approved development and it's constructed.

I don't think I don't see any way it would be in our hands at all.

I think Denise has something.

I don't know if it's for is it for her or what?

First of all, I'm trying to use the mouse to turn the microphone on so you can tell.

Gee, I hope to never be up here again.

So I don't need to know that.

Um I didn't realize until I was put on I was put on this regional planning commission that my neighborhood had one entrance exit.

And I never realized it until they added on several streets past us.

So now we have two exits.

It's done for reason, and it's important for a reason, and it's kind of a catch 22.

Because you've given the one side.

But the other side is only having one way to get out of where you live.

Or it's fire engine getting into it when there is an accident at that entrance is the other side of it.

So it's a catch, it's a catch-22, and it is what it is.

It kind of is what it is, you know, sort of thing.

No.

But thank you.

Somebody else is coming to the mic.

Give us your name.

Pull the mic to your face, we'll be able to listen.

Yes, sir.

Uh Jennifer Lynch.

Um I'm at 215 Waterfowl Drive and Pin Tail Point.

Um, and yeah, we do have two.

Um, our development does have two entrances and exits, and I know that proposed development only has one.

I see that as uh their problem, not an us problem for them to make, let them have their two entrances, we have ours.

But that's not what I'm here to speak about.

Um I've been a um I'm currently an active um Dover police officer.

I've been there for 23 years.

Um I've served in everything from our patrol division to our criminal investigations unit and our community outreach.

I've done a very wide variety of things in my blessed career.

But one of the things I wanted to talk about is I see firsthand um Dover's grown over the last 23 years, um, where we have single family homes and developments and how they've been connected to and built on, and they make these giant uh developments where there once was only like one existing development, um, kind of similar to ours.

I I know that there's an increased number of traffic and trash.

I don't care which way you want to point it, there we are going to have increased traffic into our development.

I think we all know that.

Um but to hammer down the point of um our development and the safety for our children.

Right now we have, I do believe it's a kindergartner right on our street that's three houses away.

Um all the way up to my daughter who's who will be 13 in August, being an eighth grader.

So you can see we have a very wide variety of uh children that ride the school bus.

Um and we have our various stops, so we all walk from our houses to our our our bus stops.

I've seen also tragically firsthand what happens when children commingle with vehicle traffic.

It's uh a very dismal picture, and I I pray to God um and put my hand on this Bible that that would never occur in our development.

But I think it's um it's all of our due diligence to try to fight this on every level that we can because I don't want my children or anyone else's children in a development um being put at risk because of the increased traffic.

Right now, um when when I'm walking to the school bus or walking from the school bus, I see neighbors that I know.

And I wave to them and I say hello, and they know, oh, that's Jen Lynch and and her kids, so let's slow it down.

There's a certain level of accountability there because we all live in that community.

When you have someone that doesn't know our families and are just trying to get from point A to point B, all bets are off.

Um I appreciate everybody's time and effort.

I think this is probably the most responsive.

And I've been in, like I said, in in our in the police department, and I've attended community meetings, and I will say this is probably the most engaged um set of uh professionals up here that I've dealt with in a long time, so I do appreciate that.

Um but I needed to take this few brief minutes to let you know my concerns, and I thank you.

We thank you for your comments.

Mr.

Mr.

Davis, I think has a comment for Sarah.

Yeah, I I just want to make a comment.

Um this is probably a topic needed to be covered at another time because we could talk all night.

But I understand the concern.

These subdivisions that we are putting these stubs on today, they all have sidewalks.

These people do not have sidewalks.

Now, I personally have been out there when the school bus came and I wanted to see how it worked.

These kids get off the school bus, they walk right in the street.

Uh I would like to see us have a discussion later date.

If anybody should get a waiver on this stub street, it should be these people.

They have a bad situation.

I don't know whether that's possible or not, but I think the county really needs to give them a lot of consideration because these stub streets are connected to all these new ones that were approving that have sidewalks.

There's not a sidewalk in that development club in there and looked at it.

And I'm very concerned about their concerns about the children.

I personally saw it.

So I don't want to, is that a possibility that we could not talk about it tonight but talk about it some other time and get a waiver.

You're talking about a waiver specific to the application you just approved.

Or in general.

Well, is this how do we bring up uh another meeting?

Are are you talking about a general discussion of stub streets and waivers?

But actually for tonight.

Or I'm I'm trying to clarify your question.

Are you asking it in reference to the project you just approved?

No.

Or a general discussion of the code requirement.

It could be the one.

We can certainly see.

Once we have the problem, the development that we did tonight doesn't care about it.

These people care about it, and I care about those children in their streets.

I personally saw it.

So maybe we'll talk at another time.

We can do that.

I want to see what we can do is to help them correct that problem because no sidewalks.

Thank you.

I do have a quick question, sir, also.

Being they have an active HOA and they have approved subdivision.

If they have enough financing in their treasury, I know they take care of their stormwater.

Can they actually have sidewalks installed?

We don't want sidewalks.

It's a teacher.

I mean, is there a process for them to do that?

It would depend on where they wanted to install them.

They would have to get access if it were in the right-of-way, Del dot would have to be involved.

Is it possible conceivably?

Is it easy?

Probably not.

Probably not easy and very expensive.

So thank you.

Is anybody else like to come to the mic and speak?

Oh, she's hiding back there too.

I didn't even see her.

So give us your name, please.

My name is Amy Weller.

Um I live at 101 Merganzer Drive.

We appreciate the time and effort in looking at the situation.

While we have had lots of conversations about buses and children, the conversation has gotten away from the fact that that neighborhood does not match our neighborhood.

Our character ended and density.

I hope this gets addressed in your comprehensive plan moving forward.

Your job is to represent everyone, and I don't feel that we've been represented tonight.

Thank you.

Thank you for your comments.

Appreciate it.

Anybody else here would like to speak and would like to come to the microphone?

Mr.

Chair.

Yes, is there anybody online would like to speak?

Seems like uh Paul Fisher has uh you've raised your hand online if you'd like to make public comments at this time.

Unmute your line and give us your name and address.

And he'll have to have he'll have five minutes.

Make sure he's aware of that.

My name's Paul Fisher, 231 Waterfowl Drive.

You may proceed.

Um I'd like to refer to the um the the in the agenda packet, this uh staff recommendations.

Um it's my understanding that the builder has to comply with staff recommendations.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Um, but I'm looking at them, and one thing that was glossed over tonight, um, they were they were they were listed, uh, but there's a lot of context that it that matters here that just there's there's issues that haven't been mitigated.

And what I'm speaking to is um uh the paragraph that talks about a secondary entrance on Barrett's Chapel.

Um we know that that hasn't been approved.

If you continue reading down, it talks about the metropolitan transportation plan, has identified future capacity issues for McGuinness Pond Road.

Now, this is nothing to do with school buses.

This has capacity issues, right?

So we know that increased capacity um raises potential risk of of increased accidents, right?

That's what this is speaking to.

Um it talks about chip uh the trip generation diagram proposed development, projects an additional 288 trips.

Um that's 60 percent increase uh with left turns towards Barrett Chapel, and then it it actually goes on to say that this project could exacerbate the problem.

Like, nowhere tonight have we discussed this issue um beyond school buses.

Um has traffic been looked at?

Are we rubber stamping this?

Uh just glossing over the the the um the the the fine print here.

Um I'm I'm a little um concerned that that we might be.

Um and that's um I do appreciate your time and I I uh appreciate um this committee asking very difficult questions, my thank you.

Thank you very much.

But we did address the thing about Barrett's Chapel because in the attorney actually sent us a copy from Del Dot that Dell Dot refused to let that happen on Barrett's Chapel Road.

So that was also discussed tonight and had been uh talked about between us, and that's one of the things we didn't get that we wanted.

Right.

I so Baird's Chapel is off the table, but the the the problem in that staff recommendation, the problems on McGuinness Pond.

So now you are using McGinnis Pond as one of the primary um uh exits, which is that's exactly the exact the the problem is McGuinness Pond.

Um so and that's that's what the proposed solution is.

So I guess I'm just not understanding the logic there.

Sorry.

Yeah, that's correct because Dell Dot overrules us on road and access points, and everything had to be directed out to McGinnis Palm because it was actually a secondary road and not a major collector as Barrett's Chapel was.

Am I correct, Mr.

Attorney?

Yes.

Thank you very much.

Thank you for your comments.

Is there anyone else online would like to speak or in the audience?

I see no other hands raised online at this time, Mr.

Chair.

Ma'am, are you getting up to speak?

Yes, I'm hand.

Okay.

Not that I want to.

Would you like to sing while you're up there too?

I can do that.

I have a nice voice, I'll have you know.

Oh, very good.

Very good.

Well, go ahead.

I've been an all-state course and everything else.

My name is Sue Ellers.

I live at 305 Pergansha Drive.

Um, I also have concerns.

Uh, the issues that everyone has addressed.

We have not been able to get a lawyer to help us with this, and we've already said that.

Uh you've said that Dell DOT has overruled you.

Who do we contact at Dell Dot to talk about this?

Do we have any?

Can we have any input with Dell DOT regarding the access in exit entrances, blah, blah, blah.

What do we do now?

I would say you'd have to go through the political process.

Your senator, your representative, your levy court commissioner, have them all made aware of that.

And you might even want to want to talk to the fire chief down to Magnolia Firehouse.

I believe all that has already been done, sir.

Well, it has been done, but I mean might might just have to push the buttons because when we do the elections when we change our politicians, if they're not doing what you want them to do, then that's the time to change them.

As with you.

Yes, because if they get changed, then we can our appointment might not be in place.

Right.

I I lost my train.

I thought I had something else I wanted to say.

But with all this, that of the other thing.

I thought it was preliminary reproval.

That doesn't mean it has absolutely been approved, correct?

You did a preliminary approval of this new subdivision.

It is a preliminary plan approval with conditions.

The applicant will now have 24 months to do the full engineering of the project and get approval from the various state agencies.

Then they come to us for final plan approval.

At that point, it is just ensuring that it meets the conditions that were established tonight and meets all of the relevant code requirements.

So that's in essence, this isn't really a done deal yet until everything has until they've they've walked the walk and talked about.

They've got to they've got to do the engineering and make all that work and get all their state approvals.

It will not go through a public process again.

It will go to a public meeting at the end, but it will not be another public hearing.

Thank you.

Thank you very much, ma'am.

Thank you for taking your time to come to the mic.

Is there anybody else here would like to come up and make a statement?

If not, we're closing the public comment session.

We're now going into the commission comments.

Any commissioners like to say anything else besides what they've already talked about?

I think we're probably good shape on that.

Any other business are before the commission?

Then I'll entertain a motion to adjourn in a second.

Motion to adjourn.

I have a motion and a second call of the commission.

Mr.

Peterman.

Yes, sir.

Mr.

Servan.

Yes to adjourn.

Mrs.

Carter?

Yes to adjourn.

Mr.

Galvery.

Yes to adjourn.

Mr.

Mills.

Yes, to adjourn.

Mr.

Davis.

Yes, sir.

Mr.

Jester.

Yes to adjourn.

And once again, thank you all for taking that from your evening to come here tonight.

We appreciate your comments.

Meeting adjourned.