Okay.

Good evening, everybody.

It's six o'clock, and I'd like to call this meeting to order.

We'll start with an invocation led by Councilmember Adams, followed by the Pledge of Allegiance led by Councilmember Helsley.

Please rise as you're able.

In a season of such immense beauty, when we see the re-greening of our city, when we celebrate native blooms and global songs, let us come together to receive ideas and perspectives with open minds, to weigh opportunities and their potentials for people and for place, to consider ways we can be ever better.

Let us bring our best selves and earnestness to be thoughtful, to be wise, and to be together in community.

Please place the fly.

A pledge of allegiance.

Mr.

Johnson, would you please call roll?

Councilman Adams.

Here.

Councilman Debartal?

Here.

Here.

Councilman Grant.

Here.

Councilman Helsley.

Councilman Honeycott.

Councilman Lloyd.

Here.

Councilman Parker.

And Councilman Thomas.

Eight members present, Mayor.

Thank you.

Is there a motion on the minutes from our March 17th meeting?

Second.

Motion made to approve and seconded.

Any questions or discussion?

Councilmember Grant, you're did you have a no?

Okay.

Seeing none, all those in favor, please say aye.

Any opposed?

Motion carries.

Are there any items to be withdrawn from tonight's agenda?

Are there any items to be postponed?

Can uh council member Adams?

Yes, Mayor, um, I'd like to request to postpone item 10 D until May 26th per applicant's request.

Okay, is there a second to this motion to postpone?

Okay.

Uh motion's been made to postpone item 10 D as in dog to May.

May 27?

May 26th.

Um seconded.

Any questions or discussion?

Seeing none, all those in favor, please say aye.

Any opposed?

Motion carries.

Okay.

Any other items to be postponed.

Are there any items to be added by motion?

No, no, memorials.

Okay.

Uh the consent agenda.

Are there any changes to the consent agenda?

Vice Mayor Fugit.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um, I would like to make um a motion that we move uh 13Y to the consent agenda.

It's um another 202 fund.

It should have been on consent.

Second.

Okay.

Okay.

Um unless there's a no objection, we'll move item uh 13Y to the consent agenda.

Any objections?

Okay, seeing none, that will be moved accordingly to the consent agenda.

Any other changes to the consent agenda, Ms.

Parker?

Uh yes, I'd like to remove 10i and 12 T.

Okay.

12.

Can you say those again?

10 I and 12 T.

10 I and 12 T.

10 I and 12 T.

Yeah.

Well, these G, H, and I all have people signed up.

So they automatically would be remembered to request that.

Okay.

Okay.

I'll sell G and H if there are speakers.

There are speakers signed up for 10 G, H, and I.

Would you all like to remove that from consent?

All three.

Okay.

So 10 G, H, and I, and then you've had a 12 T.

12 T as in Thomas.

Okay.

All right.

Those are removed from the consent.

Um, any other items, Ms.

Parker or Vice Mayor.

Yes, I make a motion.

We approve the consent at the current consent agenda.

As adjusted.

As amended.

Okay.

Any other is there a second to that motion?

Okay.

Uh, seeing no lights on, all those in favor of the consent agenda as amended, please say aye.

Any opposed?

Motion carries.

Okay.

Time for my mayor's report.

I want to remind everybody that uh Earth month starts tomorrow, April's Earth Month.

We have a lot to celebrate here in Knoxville, including our Knox Breathe Initiative.

This is a good time to remind everyone to take a look at the web page, review the regional climate action plan.

A lot of people did a lot of work to put this together, and it is a regional plan because the air we breathe doesn't stop at city boundaries.

The water we drink doesn't stop at city, county, even state boundaries.

So it's really important that we remember this plan exists.

There are lots of uh action items that can be done at the city county level, but also at business level, home individual level, um, and so forth.

So it's a great resource.

I encourage everyone to take a look at it.

Really, uh there's a new video that sort of uh provides an overview of what these actions, what actions can be taken, and I want to thank our sustainability team and other partners across the region for putting this together.

You can go to Knox Breathe.org to learn more.

And today uh we announced um all the details about the state of the city luncheon.

That's gonna be uh also an environmental theme since we are uh gonna be an Earth month.

And this year's address falls on Arbor Day.

So there's you might have noticed the um invitation that went out today as a tree graphic, and I'm excited to celebrate our state of the city and everyone is invited, of course, council members, and please get the word out.

We're really excited about it.

It'll be Friday, April 24th at the Urban Wilderness Gateway Park.

Guests can arrive starting at 1045, and the program will start at 11:30.

Lunch will be provided and free shuttles will be will be offered to and from the City County Building and the Civic Coliseum beginning at 10:30.

At that time, as um you all probably know, I'll be unveiling my budget proposal and celebrating everyone who's been working hard to create and maintain a green and connected Knoxville.

Uh tomorrow, uh another celebration of the outdoors begins as Dogwood Trails officially opens.

The kickoff celebration is at 3725 Maloney Road.

That's in the Lake Moor Hills Dogwood Trail.

And the event begins at 4:30 and the ceremony kicks off at five.

Thank you to everyone, um, all of our partners and the city employees who make Dogwood Trails and Festival possible.

It's always a fun, beautiful time of year.

A quick reminder about our rules of decorum.

We are here to do the city's official business.

Those who wish to speak either to a specific agenda item or during public forum, need to sign up with Mr.

Johnson, our city recorder before 4 p.m.

Do not use profanity.

And when speaking to specific agenda items, you must stay on topic.

Remarks must be germane to the question ahead of the assembly.

That is, statements must have bearing on whether the pending motion should be adopted.

Those who fail to adhere to these rules will be ruled out of order.

For those who are listening, please note if you disrupt a public meeting, you will be asked to leave or escorted out.

Thank you in advance for respecting these rules.

That concludes my mayor's report.

Are there any reports of committee or council members serving on committees or boards?

Councilmember Adams.

Yes, I wanted to share that the rules committee had its first session.

Um this group as chaired by former councilmember Lauren Ryder.

And uh Councilman Grant also serves on the committee along with Councilwoman Healthley and former councilman uh Smith.

And we began our work.

We went through um mostly uh basic updates, but are not prepared for a full report or to bring things forward, but uh have begun.

Okay, thank you.

Any other committee reports?

Um how about general council member announcements?

Councilmember Grant.

Uh well no, I just want to take the privilege to wish you a happy birthday.

So you celebrated a happy birthday yesterday.

So thank you.

Thanks so much.

Okay, and just you know, recognize the last day today being women's history, so thank you to all the women out there who will continue to you know push for history and change in our community.

Thank you.

Okay.

Hooray for women and birthdays.

I love it.

Uh Councilmember Adams.

Yes, um, I've got a few announcements.

Uh first of all, I would like to share a huge congratulations to the South Doyle High School Robotics team for bringing home the Smoky Mountain Regional Competition last weekend in Severeville.

This win qualifies the team for the world championship in Houston, Texas.

But more importantly, the activities of this group fuel future engineers, programmers, and innovators.

So huge congrats to them.

Another youth program, the Sky Youth Aviation Program is inviting everyone to Island Home Airport or DKX for those who speak aviation.

Saturday, April 4th, uh for a fly-in slash drive-in breakfast.

I have the pleasure of getting to volunteer with this program, and they give youth the opportunity not only to restore aircraft, but also learn to fly them.

Uh evidently they can make a mean breakfast too.

Uh, one other important note is two community input sessions are coming up for the Corbella Temple site, which if you're not familiar with it, it is on a hill at the end of the Gay Street Bridge.

There's a development proposal for this site, and it's being discussed tomorrow, Wednesday, April 1st, from 6 p.m.

until 7 30 p.m.

at the Corbella Temple, and on Thursday morning, April 2nd at Kern's Bakery from 8 30 a.m.

until 10 a.m.

Both of these sessions are open to the public and will provide time with the development group CR endeavors to ask questions and learn more about the proposal.

So I encourage everyone to come out.

Okay, thank you.

Any other announcements?

Seeing none, we'll move on to the next item.

Mr.

Johnson.

9B is a resolution confirming the reappointment of Stephanie Taylor to the Civil Service Merit Board.

Second.

Motion made and seconded.

Any questions or discussion?

Seeing none, all those in favor, please say aye.

Any opposed?

Motion carries.

10 G is an ordinance approving the request of Heyo Architecture for an amendment to the East City Sector Plan from traditional neighborhood residential to medium density residential office for property located at Zero Bill Williams Avenue and a portion of property located at 2802 North Broadway, leaving the existing MUSD designation unchanged.

Fourth district.

Okay.

Um Councilmember Debart Lehman, I see your light.

There's also several people who signed up to speak.

Yes.

Did you want to speak before they I call on the uh I would like to, I think.

Okay.

Um I at the applicant's request.

I would like to make a motion to postpone uh but hear from these speakers.

So are you making the motion right now?

Or did you want to hear the speakers?

Oh, I want to hear the speakers, yes.

I'll second that motion.

But I also am curious if you want to include the other two agenda items in the postponement.

I guess I'm not making the motion yet.

Yeah.

I want to hear them speak, so I guess we can wait.

Okay.

Okay.

All right.

We'll go with the speakers who signed up.

There's three in favor and three in opposition to item 10 G.

First is Jack Coker.

Mr.

Coker, if you could come to the podium, please state your name and address for the record, and you'll have up to three minutes to address counsel.

And please turn the microphone on.

There's a little button and you'll see it turn.

Yeah, you got it.

It's on.

My light is on.

Okay.

City council.

My name is Jack Coker, and I live at 2407 Coker Avenue.

And I have the honor of serving as the president of the Belmores neighbors.

Our neighborhood sits just 620 feet from this proposed project along Broadway and Bill Williams.

My wife and I moved into Belmores in 2023.

We were fortunate to find a 1942 FHA home built over 80 years ago as a starter home, and still serving that same purpose today for our growing family.

We welcomed our first child in August.

She is a 10th generation coker in Knoxville.

We love this city.

And we try to give back to our neighborhood and community in any way we can.

But I'll say this plainly.

As you know, we are in the midst of a housing crisis driven by underbuilding.

Not from a lack in effort, but because time and time again, housing proposals are reduced or denied during the regulatory process.

The project before you today would add much needed housing, just 155 feet from Broadway, one of our most prominent corridors.

This is exactly where density makes sense.

The site has access to transit, a city park, a library, sidewalks, a greenway, and is within walking distance of shops and services.

I strongly believe this is precisely the kind of location where RN6 is appropriate.

I understand that a compromise to RN5 has been suggested, which would eliminate 16 units.

But I ask you not to think of those units in the abstract.

Those are homes for people like my family.

People who want to live, work, and contribute to Knoxville.

If those individuals were standing in front of you today, would you tell them there is no room?

My ask is simple.

When or if this project comes back before you, I urge you to support RN6.

Say yes to housing where it is appropriate and needed.

Say yes to the future residents of the city.

And please do not deny them a seat at Knoxville's table.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next person signed up to speak in favor of item 10G is Drew Harper.

Mr.

Harper, if you could come to the podium, state your name and address for the record, and you'll have up to three minutes to address counsel.

Hey, I am Drew Harper.

I live at 1205 Kenyon Street in Knoxville.

I am vice president of Yes Knoxville and a proximate neighbor to this location.

I also I am District 2 Democrats CoRAP with co-rep, which we meet at the uh Union Hall on Bill Williams Avenue.

So I'm driving by this giant empty lot all the time.

Um I support the proposed uh rezoning to allow for more housing because we need more housing.

Um there are lots of reasons to support housing that you've heard me talk about before.

Uh density is better for climate, better for walkability, better for physical health, better for mental health.

And uh it can it can sound like uh laundry list of reasons that the uh to support housing and urbanism and walkability and density, and it's like for me it's kind of hard to land on just one.

Um but I think what I'd like to ask you tonight when you're considering this amendment and the sector plan amendment and the one-year plan amendment is to think of what problems we're solving.

Because when we're the third biggest city in Tennessee, and we're just small people in this auditorium, and we can't solve the climate crisis, right?

And we can't solve the housing crisis on our own.

Uh we can make small steps towards solving those things.

And I think that making small progress is important.

Um so when you're considering these things, I encourage you to ask yourself what problems am I solving, and the inverse.

If we deny housing, what problems are we solving?

Um I think this is a good idea.

It's a great project.

It's a lot that has uh is empty as long as I can remember it being.

It's near transit.

It is I I bike by there.

I I think as the city continues to develop in a sustainable pattern, the people that live in these neighborhoods will have a better and better quality of life as it is safer to walk and bike places to work and school and home and churches and bars and coffee shops and businesses and um thank you for your time and I encourage you to say yes to housing.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next person signed up to speak in favor of item 10 G is Ellen Zaviska.

Ms.

Viska, if you could come to the podium, state your name and address for the record, and you'll have up to three minutes to address counsel.

Thank you very much.

Ellen Zaviska, 3118 Fairview Street.

Um, some of you know I serve on the board for Yes Knoxville.

I'm not here representing Yes Knoxville tonight.

I also live in the Edgewood Park neighborhood and serve on the board of the Edgewood Park Neighborhood Association.

I want to make clear I'm not representing the Edgewood Park Neighborhood Association.

The EPNA has chosen to uh be neutral on this because we have neighbors who um have different feelings toward this development.

So the board, the Edgewood Park Neighborhood Association itself has not taken a position.

Um so I'm just here as a neighbor.

Um I walk past this lot pretty often.

Um I like to climb that hill from uh Edgewood in an effort to tire up my pit bull.

Um this lot has sat empty for many years.

Uh it's become a bit of an eyesore, and I hope that we can all find a solution that adds much needed housing to Knoxville while also satisfying those neighbors who live closest to this parcel.

Um so if that means a compromise of RN5 rather than RN six, I accept that.

But please, I hope you'll keep in mind that greater density means greater affordability, and of course, that's something that is in very short supply in Knoxville today.

So thank you very much.

Thank you.

Um we'll move to the three speakers who signed up to speak in opposition to item 10G.

We'll start with Rebecca Tucker, Ms.

Tucker.

If you could come to the podium and please state your name and address for the record, and you will have up to three minutes to address counsel.

Hi, my name's Rebecca Tucker.

I live at 1415 Branson Avenue.

And thank y'all for letting me speak today.

I'm opposed to these apartments because those apartments are right behind my house.

And when I bought this house, it was on door five.

And I feel it should stay R5 because I think the city should honor that because that's what it was when I bought the house.

I moved here from Georgia eight years ago.

And the reason why I moved here was because the place where I lived at by South Atlanta, it just grew and grew and grew.

And I love Knoxville because that's a small town.

And it's just a great place to live.

You people are very, you know, everyone's been very nice.

But if we build these apartments, I've seen what it's done because I remember what it did to my neighborhood when they built these apartments like this behind people's houses.

It caused a lot of traffic, a lot of noise.

Plus, if you think about it, people will be able to see directly into my backyard into my house, and that's not very welcoming.

Um also I think about this young couple that just bought their house a year ago.

They paid a lot of money for their house, just like you know, I paid for my house.

And if it hadn't been for my VA loan, I probably wouldn't have been able to afford the house.

So I think about this young couple starting out.

Here they're gonna have these big apartments behind our houses and they can look down into them.

So I guess my challenge to y'all today would be if that was your mother or your grandmother or one of your family members.

Would you want those big tall apartments looking down into your family members' backyard or into their house?

Because I uh plan to hope to have grandkids someday, and I would love for my grandkids to be able to enjoy my backyard without people you know looking into it, headlights coming back into it, the noise, and um I just think for the neighborhood it's not a good thing.

I think maybe you could build a couple of duplexes or some nice houses, and I just think that would be more conducive and better for the neighborhood.

And thank y'all so much for listening to me tonight.

Thank you.

Uh next person signed up is our former colleague, Lauren Ryder.

Welcome back.

Are you is Lauren Ryder present?

There she is.

I don't even really need to tell you what to do, but for the sake of routine, please state your name and address for the record, and you'll have up to three minutes to address council.

I thought I was third, Mr.

Johnson.

Okay, real quick before I get started.

Stop my clock, Mr.

Johnson, back me up, please.

Um, we're all signed up to speak on all three agenda items because Mr.

Johnson suggested that we do that.

I don't know that I need to speak three times, but oh okay.

You can decide that on a case.

All right, well, since I'm gonna run out of time probably because I'm long-winded, y'all might know that.

Lauren Ryder, uh, 229 East Scott Avenue.

Um, real quickly, you guys have already heard this has been an unempty lot for a very long, long, long, long, long time.

I'm very familiar with that going all the way back to 2012.

Um, and in fact, I got so many calls over the years, even before I was on council.

I thought it was really strange that this was on consent last time and that nobody spoke at the planning commission.

Um, Miss Casey was in my phone because she'd been reaching out to me over the years about things.

Many of her neighbors that used to reach out to me actually moved away because some of the problems that they experienced there.

They gave up on their neighborhood.

So I'm actually not per se opposed to the sector plan or the um uh one-year plan change.

Um, what I want to clarify here is that right now this property is zoned, a split zone of CG2 and office.

CG2 allows 70 foot height, and office allows, I believe, if I'm correct, Miss Brooks, 45 feet.

Um the office part would allow six units, and the CG part actually doesn't have a density cap.

Um, so right now, if you do nothing, if you pass not the sector plan, not the one-year plan, um, a bunch of apartments can still be beat but built there.

So I'm not here to argue against housing, I'm for housing.

I am here to argue for the staff recommendation of RN5.

This came to Planning Commission in October, and it failed with CG.

Um, former Commissioner Adams was on planning commission there and it didn't pass.

The applicant came to me and asked what to do, wanted to appeal it to council.

I spared some of us from that because I said I'm sorry, I'm not gonna support that.

I went, I went and had a meeting with Miss Brooks, and I got that advice after talking with her.

Um, the recommendation back in 2019 was RN4.

The owner of the property at that time, which is different from now, wanted to keep that R and 4 zoning.

The staff recommendation last fall, the staff recommendation this time was RN5.

The planning commissioners specifically, the planning commission is very clear in their packet that the recommended zoning is RN5.

I want to point out that everything in the center of Sequoia Hills, all those condos, all those apartments, those are RN5.

Anyway, I will I want to say that the planning commissioners were told that RN6 is a down zone for this property.

As I've just explained to you, 45 feet, 65 feet are two different things.

It is not a down zone for the office part to change it from office to R in six.

So I'm asking you for RN5, but I might get to speak again.

Thank you.

The third and final person to speak in opposition to item 10G is Hayden Chapel.

Hayden Haydn Hayden.

If you could come to the podium, please state your name and address for the record, and you'll have up to three minutes to address counsel.

Sure.

Good evening.

I'm uh my name's Hayden Chappelle.

Uh, me and my wife live at 1423 Branson Avenue, which is the property directly behind 2802 North Broadway.

Um I guess I'd just like to start by saying that we we completely support development in the community, and we we understand the need for housing and growth in the neighborhood.

Um what we're asking for is that that growth stays reasonable and within the context of the neighborhood that already exists.

Um the requested RN6 zoning would allow a building height of 65 feet tall, 49 foot dwelling or 49 dwelling unit capacity.

Um our shared lot line is only 18 feet from our back door uh to that lot line according to KGIS.

So a structure that tall, you know, would not only change the the neighborhood, it would it would dominate it and it would dominate our our house and our sense of privacy and security at our home.

Um RN6 is a you know intended uh to accommodate high density residential neighborhoods, and it doesn't really reflect the area surrounding it today.

Commercial development on Broadway, light commercial to the to the north side of it, and then our small kind of single family neighborhood uh on our side.

So we're not asking for you guys to deny the project as a whole or to stop development or stop housing from being developed.

We're just asking you to support the planning staff recommendation of R and five, which would still allow meaningful development and additional housing while respecting the community who already lives here.

Uh this zone is also supported by the Knoxville zoning code users manual, which states the RN5 district may serve as a functional transition between traditionally single single family residential neighborhoods and more intensely developed residential and commercial areas.

This description is exactly what 2802 North Broadway is.

So while we're protective of the massive investment we made as homeowners, I think we're the young couple Rebecca was referring to.

Uh, we're not opposed to this development.

We think it's important to the growth of the community that we love.

However, to protect that same community, we request that you vote for the planning staff recommendation of R and five.

Even so, you know, we we expect challenges.

The preliminary design proposal shows a 35-foot structure that would only be 30 feet from our back door.

Um, but we're we're looking forward to working with the developer in the design review process to find ways that would mitigate that and uh mitigate that impact to us and our neighbors.

Uh we believe there's a compromise to be found between new development and protecting the character of a neighborhood that it would be a part of because density is not a building, it's a relationship between the buildings, streets, and people.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, council that concludes uh the folks who have signed up to speak to item 10 G.

As uh Ms.

Ryder alluded, both she and Mr.

Chip Chappell uh signed up to speak in opposition to item 10 H and I.

They're all related.

Mr.

DeBart Labin.

Um I would like to make my motion now uh at the applicant's request to postpone, and I'm glad that we got to hear these voices.

Okay, do you want to postpone all three?

I would like to postpone all three.

Okay, how long?

I'll second.

For what until what date?

Uh two weeks.

Okay, the motion's been made to postpone items 10 G, 10 H, and 10 I for two weeks.

And there was a second.

Any questions or discussion?

Seeing none, all those in favor, please say aye.

Any opposed?

Motion to postpone carries item 10 G H and I.

We'll talk about in two weeks.

Next item.

12J is the resolution authorizing the mayor to execute an agreement with APAC Atlantic Incorporated in an amounts not to exceed 404,155 for the 2026 Citywide Facilities Paving Project.

Okay.

Motion made to approve, seconded and seconded.

Mr.

Grant.

Yeah, I just wanted to make a few comments for the record.

Um just understanding that we do have a uh workshop coming up in May.

And um I just want to be mindful um, you know, just about our current procurement process and what it's been thus far.

Um when I look at APAC Atlantic and what I've been able to find out about them is that they're based out of North Carolina with the with the Knoxville office.

Um and just so I just want to get on the record to be mindful, you know, that uh let's just take that in consideration next month when we do go into our workshop.

Um I would like to see more opportunities for local businesses and and local uh contractors to have more opportunities in our procurement process.

Okay.

Count uh Vice Mayor Fugit.

Thank you.

I just want to clarify our workshop is about grants.

This is about procurement for city contracts.

That was I haven't asked them to be a part of that, but I will see if we can get somebody to speak to the difference in how those happen.

Um yeah, and of course, local uh any businesses are allowed to make bids on purchasing RFP, and um we can you know update council members as needed individually or as a group on our procurement rules.

There's um they're very detailed and important, and we follow them.

And local entities are always welcome to apply uh to bid.

Thank you.

Any other questions or comments on this item?

Seeing none, all those in favor please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Motion carries 12K is a resolution authorizing the mayor to execute an agreement with Chris Hagard Plumbing LLC in an annual amounts not to exceed 200,000 for on-call construction services.

Move to approve.

Second.

Motion made to approve and seconded.

Councilmember Grant.

Again, and I'm not trying to be a pest here.

Chris Haggard Plumbing LLC is another company out of Severe County.

And I know local businesses have an opportunity to apply, but I'm I'm just seeing a repeated pattern of companies outside of our county being rewarded these agreements.

And so I just want to get this on the record in in the the workshop I was referring to was the corridor redevelopment and public financial tools workshop that I believe is scheduled for May 21st, so not April, but the May 21st workshop.

I just want to be mindful that as we're having these conversations, right?

Even though local businesses have the opportunity, maybe there's there's things that we can do better to make sure they're better prepared to be involved in the bidding process.

And so I just wanted to get that on a record for this particular line item.

Thank you.

Okay.

Noted.

Any other questions or comments?

Seeing none, all those in favor, please say aye.

Any opposed?

Motion carries.

12 L is the resolution authorizing the mayor to execute an agreement with Stu Stukesbury Construction Incorporated in an annual amounts not to exceed 200,000 for on-call construction services.

Motion made to approve and seconded.

Any questions or discussion, Mr.

Grant?

Yes, I would just like to state for the record that when I was looking up Stukesbury Construction Incorporated.

If you Google it right now, it says that it's permanently closed, which I was troubled by.

Also, um, I look at the uh state of secretary documentations.

It said it was dissolved in 2019 and brought back in 2022.

Um, and I haven't been able to find any business or any history between now and then.

So I just want to get that on the record as well.

If you Google Stooksbury construction, it says it's closed.

So I just want to be mindful of that, as we're again looking into our procurement process and seeing where we can make changes.

Mr.

Claivo, um I assume that uh we wouldn't be doing business with an entity that's closed.

Uh I don't know if you have uh further information to assure us that this is a duly endorsed business that answered the bid and fulfilled all the requirements it was the winning bidder.

And that's that's correct.

They've got a current business license, so they would submit that with their their bid information, which is on file with purchasing.

Okay.

Okay, thank you.

Uh that's I I mean, I don't know what Google might be more than one company with the same name or who knows.

But you know, we trust the processes, uh, and there's a you know very thorough vetting, and it goes beyond what just uh might be appear on the website, what various web pages and and I want to be clear that this is not me saying that people aren't doing their job or there's there's some ill intent here.

It's just as these things come across our desks.

I only have limited access.

I only can Google, I can only do you know, look up things based on the research and the resources that I have.

And when I looked it up, it says closed.

And I wasn't able to make any contact with anybody from Stewesbury construction myself.

Okay, thank you.

Any further questions or discussion?

You know, just as a as a general note, if if you had questions about the engineering contract, I'm sure you know Mr.

Claybo can make himself available beyond what the uh regular uh information provides and the backup materials.

Um just as a general note, state law prohibits the city from uh giving preferential treatment to local businesses.

Uh we do try to get the word out, and we have special efforts to include small businesses and minority-owned businesses, veteran-owned businesses, uh, but the bids are the bids, and we follow the state law on that.

Anything to add, Mr.

Evans?

No, ma'am.

The last thing you said is true, and uh I know that that Stukesbury is indeed uh a valid company, and if I'm not mistaken, Chris Hager Plumbing is a local business.

Okay, thank you.

Any further questions or discussions?

Seeing none, all those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Motion carries.

12 M is a resolution authorizing the mayor to execute an agreement with Southeastern Construction Concept Corporation in an annual amounts not to exceed 200,000 dollars for on-call construction services.

Move to approve.

Motion made to approve and second it.

Any questions or comments or discussion?

Seeing none, all those in favor, please say aye.

Any opposed?

Motion carries.

12 N is a resolution setting the in lieu of tax payments for the electric gas and fiber systems of the Knoxville Utilities Board for the fiscal year beginning July 1, 2025, and providing for allocation and distribution of such payments to the affected taxing jurisdictions.

Move to approve.

Motion made to approve.

Is there a second?

Okay.

Second, okay, so there has been seconded.

Any questions or discussion?

Seeing none, all those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Motion carries.

120 is a resolution authorizing the mayor to execute an agreement with Tartan Oil LLC to provide multiple types of bulk fuel for an initial term of one year with the option to extend the agreement for up to two additional one-year terms at an estimated cost per term of four million one hundred fifty-two thousand four hundred fifty-nine dollars thirty-two cents.

Move to approve.

Motion made to approve and seconded, and uh Mr.

Nicholas Bradshaw, Director of Fleet Services, is available if council has questions.

Any questions or discussion?

Seeing none, all those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Motion carries.

12 P is the resolution authorizing the mayor to amend the contract with SPATCO Energy Solutions for the public safety fuel islands project, increasing the original contract amount by $510,000 by $61,773.50 cents for a new total contract amounts not to exceed $571,773.50 cents.

Motion made to approve and seconded.

Um council members, I just want to say both the last item and this item allow us to buy fuel in bulk, which uh and then have more places to store it.

And as you know, the cost of fuel has uh been increasing recently.

And uh Mr.

Bradshaw mentioned to me that for every penny that the price of fuel goes up, that's an extra $7500 per day for the city of Knoxville to run its police, fire, public facility, public service, and other fleet vehicles.

So I'm really grateful that uh we can buy in bulk and try to get ahead and stay ahead of these uh fluctuating fuel prices.

Any further questions or discussion?

Seeing none, all those in favor please say aye.

Any opposed?

Motion carries 12 Q is the resolution authorizing the mayor to execute a piggyback agreement with Alfred Bennesetch and company to provide consulting services to study the Knoxville area transit system in order to maximize ridership and support access to parks, affordable housing, and employment in an amount not to exceed 74,332.

Motion made to approve and seconded.

We have uh several three people signed up to speak in favor of this item.

Uh first is Mary Alice Richardson.

If you could come to the podium, please state your name and address for the record, and you'll have up to three minutes to address counsel.

Thank you.

My name is Mary Ellis Richardson, and I live at 7023 Sheffield Drive, Knoxville, Tennessee, 37909.

And I'm a member of Church Street United Methodist Church, and I'm here representing Justice Knox.

And since December, Justice Knox leaders have been meeting consistently with a team of City and CAT staff, as well as Councilwoman Debbie Helsley and a representative from Knoxville's transportation planning organization.

We appreciate Mayor Kim Cannon for appointing a strong team and for the leadership of Grant Rosenberg, who has ensured our work has been collaborative and productive.

Together we've developed a thoughtful scope of work and a clear timeline for a micro transit design study, one that will identify the areas in our city where expanded access to transportation is most urgently needed.

This study will use census data and existing data from our CAT system to ensure that recommendations are grounded in our local context and build efficiencies into systems already in place.

But this is not just about data.

This is about people.

This is about seniors who are forced to cross four lanes of traffic just to reach a bus stop.

This is about parents who are doing everything they can, yet they still struggle to get their children to school or to after school activities.

This is about neighbors who feel isolated from their own community, cut off not by choice, but by lack of access.

And we have listened to these neighbors, and we carry their voices with us today.

We know that all all you all of you care deeply about the well-being of our community, and that is why we stand before you with both urgency and hope.

We respectfully ask that you vote yes in support of this microtransit design study because this is a step toward dignity, access, and opportunity for so many in our city.

Thank you for your time, your leadership, and your commitment to our committee.

Thank you.

Next person signed up uh to speak in favor of this item is Margaret Vickley.

If you could state your name and address for the record, and you'll have up to three minutes.

Good evening.

My name is Margaret Bickley.

I live at 5409 Wasman Road, Knoxville 37912.

I'm a member of Justice Knox and attend St.

James Episcopal Church.

Since 2019, we have heard many stories from members of our community struggling with transportation.

Because of that, we have devoted years of research on this issue to find solutions to our communities' transportation gaps.

These past seven years, we've heard from neighbors who cannot easily get to grocery stores, who live in food deserts and child care deserts, and who are unable to attain a basic quality of life.

We've learned that over 10,000 households in Knoxville do not have a car, and many face long and dangerous walks just to reach a bus stop.

Others living paycheck to paycheck, spend more than they can afford on a car, but they can't afford not to keep their vehicle.

One of our members recently shared that her rent is rising and she'd like to move, but she can't because she lives currently near a bus stop.

She described the mental and physical toll that relying completely on our bus system is taking on her.

She carries laundry across multiple bus routes just to have clean clothes.

What takes many of us just a few minutes takes her and many of our neighbors ours.

This situation doesn't impact people just physically.

It isolates them.

It cuts them off from opportunity, from community, and from participating fully in the life of our city.

We have learned that transportation is not a luxury, it is a lifeline.

And that's why we're here today.

This transit design study is the first step toward real change and will examine Knoxville's existing system and develop a plan to expand access through microtransit, connecting people to jobs, to housing, and to essential services.

In just a few months, this study will give us a clear path forward.

Our neighbors are waiting for access, for opportunity, and for dignity.

So we respectfully ask that you vote yes to approve this transit design study.

Thank you very much for your time.

The third and final speaker in favor of this item is Jake Studley.

Mr.

Studley, if you could come to the podium, state your name and address for the record, and you'll have up to three minutes to address counsel.

Hello, my name is Jake Studley.

I live at 1817 Andy Hole Avenue, and I'm a first year student living on campus at UTK.

One of the amenities provided by UTK to its students and faculty is the T bus system, of which I'm sure you're already aware.

When paired with the transportation provided by Knoxville Area Transit, I find that I can commute to nearly anywhere I can go within the city limits of Knoxville.

Unfortunately, not everyone enjoys the same convenience I do in that regard.

Certain areas of the greater Knoxville community remain underserved by existing public transit, and addressing that gap doesn't solely lie within simply extending the current bus routes.

At a certain point, requiring buses to serve service every street from downtown Knoxville to Farragut and Maryville is simply inefficient for both the riders and those who provide the transportation.

Some may raise the point that in recent years, publicly traded ride share companies such as Lyft and Uber have moved to close this gap.

The issue with this, however, is that these services are not in compliance with the ADA and thus are not distributed equitably.

To further illustrate this point, in September 2025, the Justice Department filed a lawsuit against Uber for refusing riders with rides to passengers accompanied by service dogs, or for those who use wheelchairs.

The reason I support resolution Q is because it is a means by which we can achieve an end to make Knoxville accessible to all citizens and to close this gap equitably.

Thank you.

Thank you.

We appreciate it.

And I know uh you've been very engaged.

So uh thank you.

We look forward uh if council approves this in a minute, uh, to seeing the results of the study and bringing that back to council for your consideration for whatever those findings may be.

Any further questions or discussion?

Councilmember Parker.

Thank you, Mayor.

I had a few questions for Director Thorne if he's here.

Uh he is here, and so is Mr.

Rosenberg, who we have we'll see what the question is, and who can answer it?

So please go ahead.

And I appreciate um your response to the questions I sent earlier.

I thought it would be um good to have this conversation publicly, um, because I wanted to share some of my concerns and hopefully get those concerns addressed.

Um of my questions um which you addressed is um why we need this study.

And I think that's a good place to start if you would share a response to that.

Sure.

Isaac Thorne, director of Knox Floyd Transit.

So, as I explained in my email today, and your in response to your question is why are we doing this?

Why do we need this?

We've done the CAP reimagined study that really focused on fixed route transit.

It's a two-year process where we got a lot of public feedback, rider feedback.

Uh the resounding response was we want more frequent service.

70% of the people that responded was we want more frequent service.

What we have not examined yet is our lift service and the gaps that we have within service throughout the Knoxville region.

Uh there are gaps, and what we're trying to do is look at those gaps and see how we can feed into the fixed route system, how can we serve them best?

Uh, we know there's a lot of low-income areas that don't have access to transit, they're transit deserts.

So that's all we're doing.

That's why we're looking at this study.

We're hoping that we know that when the we get the study back, there will be recommendations for this.

And uh as discussions have taken place, has there been any consideration of using the passenger vans to supplement and what were those discussions?

Yeah, so what we're looking at this when this was this study is we're providing ADA paratransit service through Lyft that is required by us by law by FTA requirements.

What we're trying to do is commingle that with looking at how do we more efficiently provide lift service to be able to provide some of this microtransit service in certain areas.

So that's what we're looking at is commingling those two services together.

And the uh passenger vans serve what purpose in that?

It's the same with vans or the same vans we're using right now for Lyft, we're also going to use for microtransit.

Okay.

Um and my my concern is when I reach out to CAT drivers, they express their concerns and worries about what might be to come.

Um of those is that Lyft is a door-to-door service.

Uh so we will still have a Lyft door to door service, and they're worried about changes that have already been made to riders who are medically approved for Lyft and further reductions in that population having access to lift.

Yeah.

So again, we were required by law.

If you will qualify for Lyft, we have to provide you transit service if you live within the city of Knoxville limits and you qualify for the service.

So that doesn't go away.

That is our top priority.

Oh, it was my understanding that um dialysis patients uh were previously uh uh uh a large user of the service.

No, uh actually 90% of our dialysis patients were already being transferred in having served by CAC.

So we shifted the other 10% over to them as well.

Some of those people qualify for uh tennis 10 care, and so their trips are actually free.

And then the other concern from the drivers are the impact on their ability to keep their routes that they've had for years and the relationships that they developed, and any concerns about um a move towards the non-unionized positions versus those who are unionized.

Yeah, these positions would be in the contract.

It's already in the contract.

Your last contract we negotiated microtransit lift services are all combined.

So that answers my questions.

Thank you so much.

No problem.

Thank you.

Any other questions or comments on this study?

Seeing none, all those in favor please say aye.

Any opposed?

Motion carries.

Okay.

12 hours of resolution endorsing implementation of phase one of the alternative response business and service delivery plan, and thanking the members of the alternative response task force and other engaged stakeholders.

His contributions were integral to the development of the plan.

Uh made to approve.

Second.

Okay.

Motion's been made to approve and second.

We do have some people speaking uh signed up to speak on this item.

Uh first is Elizabeth Rowland.

Ms.

Rowland, if you could come to the podium, state your name and address for the record, and you'll have up to three minutes.

You can put the microphone down a little bit.

Yeah, there, perfect.

I'm Elizabeth Rowland.

I live in Fountain City on Balsam Drive, and I'm a member of Knoxville Heart.

Knoxville Heart seeks passage of this resolution to continue momentum made with the release of the alternative response task force business and service delivery plan, which recommended the city and county consider implementing a phased community responder program.

To be clear, this is not a budgetary resolution, but an opportunity to thank community members and representatives of uh participating agencies for the work they did on the alternative response task force.

The task force spent all of 2025 convening monthly, providing feedback between meetings, and working with outside experts to create this report.

And that work is worth acknowledging.

Uh passage of this resolution will keep the conversation about community responder program moving forward, which is worthwhile since city council has passed previous resolutions acknowledging community responder programs as a worthwhile addition to the continuum of care that is being provided in many cities.

Also, the city put $50,000 into the task force.

So acknowledging that the acknowledging that the task force completed its charge is offering transparency to taxpayers about the results of a f city financial outlay.

In my remarks, I want to address the concern for safety of community responders that some of you have expressed.

We agree it is important to ensure the safety of not only those seeking help during crisis, but also the responders who would be stepping up to offer their support.

While there is some intuitive logic to this concern, we have found that it's not actually borne out in the data.

The task force report states that out of that 89 programs across the country have implemented similar models and respond to almost a quarter million calls yearly, and no one has been killed or seriously injured.

Zero.

That's a remarkable record.

Unarmed debt collectors, child protection services, and other professionals enter homes every day without knowing what circumstances are going on inside the home, yet they manage to maintain their own safety through de-escalation and other methods with less training than community responders would receive.

The task force report clearly lays out procedures for ensuring that calls are vetted to ensure safety of responders.

First, call screening calls are screened for disqualifiers such as weapons or a history of violence at the address.

Second, responders dial the caller while on the way to gather more details.

Third, uh, they conduct more screening on arrival and approach cautiously.

Fourth, if a situation begins to escalate, they safely distance themselves and summon backup.

It is clear some call types are obviously safe for community responders.

For example, an elderly lady slumped over on the side of the road appearing in need.

So your time is up.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

We ask for you to support this resolution.

Thank you.

Next person signed up to speak in favor of item 12R is Allie Cohn.

Are you present?

There she is.

If you could come to the podium, state your name and address for the record.

You'll have up to three minutes to address counsel.

Sorry about that.

My name is Ally Cohn, and I live at 3406 Orlando Street, 37917.

Um, I am a licensed master social worker.

I'm one of the founding members of HART, where I volunteered for the last six years.

I served on the alternative response task force.

I spent the last two years as a mobile crisis clinician in surrounding counties of Knoxville, and I currently work with people who use drugs in my role as the overdose prevention director at Help Inter Harm Reduction.

Sorry, I'm out of breath, but I heard you call my name.

I was running.

So I'm here to read some excerpts from two letters of support that we received.

The first one is from the Cookville Fire Department Chief Young talking about their community responder program.

The team responds to nonviolent incidents that are screened and dispatched through Cookville Police Dispatch.

They spend time with individuals, assess their needs, connect them with available resources, and provide follow-up when possible.

This is not only, this not only helps individuals get the assistance they need, but it also allows our police officers to remain available for other calls for service.

A preliminary report conducted by Tennessee Tech University evaluated the program and indicated that even in a city the size of Cookville, this model can result in taxpayer savings, particularly by reducing unnecessary emergency room visits and jail incarcerations, while also helping break the cycle and reduce repeat calls for service.

From an operational standpoint, the program has proven to be safe and effective.

In the 15 months since implementation, there have been no arrests and over 400 calls that the community response program has responded to.

Additionally, there have been no incidents of violence involving individuals encountered by the team.

It is improving outcomes for our citizens, reducing strain on our police officers, and making more efficient use of taxpayer dollars.

And then the second letter is from the police chief Winfrey at the Cookville Police Department.

I'm just going to read a short excerpt where he says, often the situation will escalate when a uniformed officer responds to a mental health call.

Notably, none of these 400 plus calls have resulted in arrests.

Outcome reflects our ability to de-escalate situations.

Traditionally, officers responding to these kinds of calls are limited to two primary options transporting to hospital or an arrest.

Traditionally, officers responding to these kinds of calls are limited to two primary options transporting to hospital or an arrest, and the program offers a critical alternative by connecting individuals with the resources.

I know this isn't the same as what the task force recommended, but I think this really shows the potential for good and also how these kinds of programs can be tailored to fit different kinds of communities.

We know that this would be a model that would be really great on the continuum that already exists.

Thank you.

Next person signed up to speak on this item is Hope Dunn.

Ms.

Dunn, if you could come to the podium, state your name and address for the record, and you'll have up to three minutes to address counsel.

Thank you.

Hope Arlen Dunn, 6914 Wright Road.

Um, I would like to share a letter from NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness.

NAMI supports mental health advocacy on a national and state level.

NAMI Knoxville provides peer-led support programs and education for families, caregivers, as well as adults in recovery.

Dear members of the City Council, we the leadership of NAMI and NAMI Knoxville strongly support the establishment of an unarmed alternative response program in Knoxville, Knox County as proposed by Knoxville Heart.

As conveners of the Cookville Community Response Program, we have witnessed how unarmed response teams effectively de-escalate crises and connect individuals with necessary resources.

The CCR program has proven to be a valuable non-police response, saving Cookville an estimated 96,571 annually by reducing emergency room visits and hospital stays.

We believe this initiative in Knox County will provide in intervention resources and improve stability for individuals in crisis, as well as safe taxpayer dollars by diverting mental health crisis from hospitals and jails.

Lastly, de-escalate crisis and reduce the burden on law enforcement and the justice system.

Safety concerns for mental health clinicians and EMTs can be addressed with police on standby during dispatch and safety measures within crisis bands, as demonstrated by Cookville's program.

Despite initial hesitations, Cookville emergency service leaders now enthusiastically support the CCR program.

With strong collaboration and leadership, this initiative can protect both community members and unarmed persona.

We urge the city council to support this initiative in Knox County and ensure it is adequately resourced for success.

Thank you for your time and dedication to Knoxville.

Thank you.

We have one person uh signed up to speak in opposition to item 12R, Rick Roach.

Mr.

Roach, are you present?

If you could come to the podium, state your name and address for the record, then you'll have up to three minutes to address counsel.

Rick Roach Knoxville.

Uh for the record.

Um I just took up the slot.

I am a member apart.

Um this needs to be pushed along.

We we fooled around City Council's you need you need to do this.

You need to build this gap.

A few years ago, Chief Noel was participating in a um symposium.

Um, and he was challenged to give his position on alternative response, and he said, I'm for it.

I thought, hmm, where's this gonna go?

Haven't heard much from Chief since then.

Um the recent meeting where you met with uh um part members to discuss how to move this along.

Um meeting I was I attended where we met with David Brace.

There were all these roadblocks as to why this can't be done.

And we've had the special uh meetings, counsel Tommy Smith called a meeting fooled around the task force.

Thank goodness for the task force.

Yet we didn't need a task force.

Information was already there.

All you had to do was start customizing it for Knoxville.

That's all you had to do.

But now we've delayed this process for a couple of years.

Getting this program implemented, it would be a thorough compliment to co-responder.

And, you know, as has been stated by the previous speakers, there's nothing wrong with this program, and it is sorely needed.

And all you have to do is I'm gonna go back to my full episcopalian training here.

Uh there's a word, a Greek word, metanoia, and basically it means change of heart, change of mind.

So change your hearts.

Your mind will follow.

Vice Mayor, point of order.

I did not want to interrupt you, Mr.

Roach, but this is two meetings in a row that are rule that council rules have not been followed.

So in the mayor, I would ask in the future when someone signs up to speak against an item, they either need to speak against it or they need to be called out of order.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Understood.

Uh that concludes people signed up to speak on item 12R.

Uh Councilmember Parker.

Uh thank you, Mayor.

I'm gonna uh give a little bit of the history to catch us all up.

Um, so bear with me as I go through it.

But thank you to the public forum speakers.

Um I've brought before council tonight a resolution that expresses appreciation to the city and county administrations for working together to form an alternative response task force.

The resolution also endorses the implementation of the alternative response business and service delivery plan and thanks members of the task force for their work.

In 2024, Mayor Kinkanan's office, upon council's request, led efforts to form a joint city county task force to develop a business and service delivery plan for 911 dispatched alternative or community response program for Knoxville and Knox County.

Both the city and county each allocated 50,000 towards the work of the task force and the development of the plan.

I want to thank Mayor Kankan for your leadership and forming the task force and involving the county in these efforts.

The city is often called upon to champion the efforts that benefit the most vulnerable, and I appreciate your willingness to once again answer the community's call and council's call for alternative response or a community responder program to be explored explored further for Knoxville.

Community responder programs, which pair two trained and unarmed professionals to respond to low-level nonviolent 911 calls, have grown in popularity across the nation, as we all have just heard, including in places like Cookville, Tennessee.

Their popularity has grown for many reasons, but I would highlight their track record.

Out of the over 200,000 calls nationwide that community responder teams respond to each year, there have been no reported fatalities or incidents of serious injury to the responders.

The programs are also popular, even with those who initially had concerns or doubts because they provide a service that the community appreciates and that helps move folks from crisis to care while removing calls from police that allow police to focus on serious crimes in the community.

Recently, thanks to Knoxville Heart, we were able to speak with Cookville Chief of Police Scott Winfrey, Fire Chief Benton Young, and their community responder program manager Bill Davis about the successes they have experienced since implementing community response 18 months ago, a program they also weren't so sure about.

And I'll try not to repeat a lot of what the public forum uh speakers shared, but I do think these are uh really important uh lessons that we're learning from Cookville.

Since starting the program, they have not arrested anyone on any of the calls that community response has responded to, and it has significantly reduced the number of calls that police must respond to that involve that revolving door of folks in crisis.

Chief Winfrey said specifically in an interview in the past we might deal with someone and then two or three days later we deal with them again and deal with them again.

What I've seen, said Winfrey, is a reduction of the number of times we have to continually see the same person, and I believe it's helped significantly on our end.

In a conversation with Cookville Police and Fire, they also shared that they initially had police officers waiting around the corner when community response was sent on a call, but they soon learned that was not necessary.

And they don't even limit their community response to just two call types.

Their 911 staff received training to be able to determine whether a call was appropriate for community response or not.

Fire Chief Young expressed to me and has also shared in interviews quote I saw the people that they've helped.

These people are now living a normal life and contributing to the community today in a way that they wouldn't have been able to do if the program hadn't been there.

I was totally dead against it.

After we tried it, I'm 100% believer.

And as one of the public forum speakers shared, uh the police chief also shared with us that they saw the importance of implementing community response because they acknowledged how just their police uniform alone could escalate a situation unnecessarily, even though all of their officers are CIT crisis intervention trained.

I want to take this time to thank Chief Winfrey, Chief Young, and program manager Bill Davis for taking the time to speak with me and members of Knoxville Heart and for sharing your reflections with members of council tonight as well.

The alternative response business and service delivery plan developed for Knoxville Knox County recommends piloting a community responder program in the city before potentially expanding into the county, and has proposed a phased implementation plan designed to build trust in the community, ensure the two call types selected for community response are appropriate, and ensure there's no overlap with the calls handled by the co-response team.

We have seen success with non-police responses in Knoxville through programs like the Downtown Ambassador Program implemented under Mayor Kinkanan that serves downtown businesses and residents who have shown a preference at times for calling the ambassadors over the police and the street outreach workers that the city has helped fund over the years that connect the unhoused with services.

However, there is still a need to move nonviolent calls from the workload of police, especially those repeat calls that do not require a police response, but a mental health crisis response void of any coercive approaches.

It is evident from the report that these calls not only consume time that police could dedicate elsewhere, but they also wear on our officers mentally.

I believe we would benefit as a city from adopting a community responder program in more ways than one, including the benefits it would bring to the well-being of our officers and the rights of the individuals we serve.

Therefore, this resolution does not make a request that a certain amount of funding is allocated in this year's budget in order to move this work forward.

To continue to continue engaging in discussions requires some city and county resources, however.

The next steps are flexible.

What I'm asking of my colleagues on council tonight, now that the work of the task force has concluded, is that we acknowledge the work of the task force and weigh in on the resulting alternative response business and service delivery plan that council requested.

Understanding that many of you were not here when that request was made.

However, I do believe that the public and especially advocates like HART members, who have been working for six years to educate our city on alternative response and build buy-in among stakeholders, deserve to hear council's response to the resulting plan.

It is my opinion that the phased approach outlined in the plan provides Knoxville the flexibility to adopt a program that fits our needs as a city as funding and partners are identified.

Therefore, I recommend council adopt tonight's resolution, expressing support of both the work of the task force as well as the recommendations of the resulting plan.

If more time is needed to read the plan and speak with your constituents, I would be happy to make a substitute motion to postpone this item to give council members more time.

Okay, thank you.

Uh Councilmember DeBarde Leben.

Yeah.

I'll weigh in here.

I um I have a great deal of respect for the mayor and her office's uh commitment to serving our own house through a permanent supportive housing and for the mayor's office uh effort along with Chief Noel to the co-responder teams.

Um I think it's excellent work.

Um and I agree that we have choices to make fiscally, and so these these can be hard at points.

Um and we're doing this without the county right now.

Um it'd be great to do this one day with the county.

Um but there's several reasons that I support uh endorsing this plan.

One is that we we paid uh again fifty thousand dollars on our side, fifty thousand from the county to have a study done, and it's what they recommended.

Umly uh oh, I would add that uh last year I uh was able to do a ride along with a KPD officer, and it was a tremendous learning experience, and probably about 30 of percent of what we encountered um was with an unarmed unhoused person, and it took up a lot of time, and uh the the choices that that person, the officer had are limited because of what his role is or her role is and um I I think this would really free um our officers to police.

And uh this uh two weeks ago, Saturday, I was picking up trash with the items pickup uh along First Creek on Broadway next to Fulton High School, and most of the trash there comes from our unhoused.

Um I had conversations with several of those folks, picked up over 30 needles that day um to take to the you know in into a safe box.

Um and as I talked with the the the three or four unhoused that I spoke with, um, I realized that I think that if I was a police officer wearing a police uniform, we would be having a different conversation.

Um but if I'm a trained professional there to talk with somebody, uh we're able to talk get get closer to something that has substance.

And um, you know, it it's it also creates another opportunity.

We our our unhoused problem is is so deep right now, and I I support permanent supportive housing a hundred percent.

Um, but we are far from the finish line, and we need people in the field who could serve our unhoused when they're in this spot and really serve our neighbors.

I mean, it's that's a huge complaint in my neighborhood, these issues.

Um I was running for office and was asked about my thought on Knoxville and police.

I shared a story about uh I grew up in Miami, Florida, so I'd never seen the Andy Griffiths show, so I went to college in the Southeast, and I watched the Andy Griffith show with my roommates, and I realized that Andy Griffith did not carry a gun.

Uh and Barney was not allowed to put the bullet into his gun unless he asked Andy if he could do it.

So Barney carried a gun, and he would ask Andy, hey, can I do this?

Uh Andy Griffith did have a rifle on his trunk, and there were times when folks came from Brawley that he had to go open his trunk and be there with force.

But the reason that Andy Griffith didn't have to is because he talked his neighbors down.

He knew who they were first, and then he talked them down.

And I think a responder, a um this type of alternative response, community response, uh, gives an opportunity for a different type of conversation.

Uh the last thing I'm gonna say is uh the other reason I support endorsing this is because of Charlie of what you asked us to do uh two weeks ago because of the unhoused uh issues you're facing in your district, and really that we all are all facing in our district.

And I think this is a step forward uh for Knoxville.

Councilmember Thomas.

Yes, uh Chief Noel.

What we have before us is the uh a resolution to endorse the information of phase one of this program.

Uh I've reviewed it, uh it has a lot of data, and it looks like it would be helpful, but I wanted to hear from you whether or not you see red flags in this or any hesitancy or um any viewpoints you might have as far as going forward with this.

Uh I met with the consultants and um after reviewing their recommendations and I brought a lot of concerns to to them.

Uh none of those made it into the report.

I didn't bring those notes with me today, but I had a lot of questions that I didn't really get a satisfactory answer to.

Um thank you.

Ms.

I I just want to uh make a a couple comments.

First, one one part of this resolution is to thank the people who participate in the task force.

So I'll just say for the record, thank you to everyone who participated on the task force.

That's now officially in the official record.

I appreciate the volunteers from Hart who participated, uh the many city staff uh members who participated from 311 from KPD, uh Brad Anders from 911 participated.

I think there were some members of Knox County uh administration who participated.

Um, and so thank you.

Uh that has given us a lot of good information.

I also think it's important to note in that report, it uh acknowledges and uh celebrates our considerable work in this arena.

It acknowledges that the city of Knoxville has been a leader.

We have the behavioral health urgent care center.

We started with one, then we added expanded to four, and now we have six teams of co-responders, uh, which is working really well.

That's where we have an officer going out with uh trained mental health clinician to answer calls just like the ones that they're describing, and that's been very, very successful.

We also support the empath unit for people in mental health crises.

Uh there's now medical services provided at CARM, there's warming centers.

We have trained uh social work people doing the downtown K Town Connects, uh, which is what a lot of businesses call instead of calling 911 when they're summing someone experiencing a mental health crisis.

And so I would just say we are making great strides on this.

Um we are not Mayberry, and we are not Cookville.

Cookville is a a town of much smaller town of 34,000 people, and I've I'm glad that this is working well for them, but I I venture to guess that they don't do co-response, they don't have the scale of challenges that we have, and they're not investing uh in the many measures that we're doing.

So I I think that uh that's not really an apples to apples comparison.

I do want to note for the record that phase one and some of the cost uh could lead up to I think uh you know, three quarters of a million and a million dollars, and uh just as a point of information, when we talk about uh few, you know, there's some things only the city does.

For example, um first responders, you know, infrastructure keeping our city running, and there's other things that uh are a collective responsibility.

Every single person in the city of Knoxville is also Knox County resident and taxpayer, and um a lot of these things we talk about only city taxpayers are funding.

So I welcome uh if I think we have too many lights on.

I'll I promise to call on everybody, but anyhow, I just wanted to make a note that uh that did say how important it is to treat these as health issues, and the Knox County Health Department is the health department that serves our city.

And I think that's important context when we talk about the ongoing uh efforts to deal with mental health crises.

I think Mr.

Grant was first.

I'll turn my if we can just go and uh Mayor, could I make one point in response?

I just wanted to clarify that um Cookville actually did have a co-responder program.

Uh that's how they started.

Uh but we're convinced to transition to a community responder.

That's one thing that we talked about.

We wanted to talk about how the two programs work together, but they actually decided to transition from co-response to community responder.

Now, Knoxville, as you said, is a much bigger city.

There are 34,000 people versus 200,000 in the community of over half a million.

I mean, there is a center of a much larger metro area.

So this so for Knoxville, there's still um uh you know, an imagining that co-response and community response would be able to work together to fill those gaps.

I'm also told that Cookville operates its own jail, and we do not.

And so, you know, sometimes those things that the the expectation of savings and changes and how the jail operates, we have no control over.

Oh, and one final thing.

Um, my hope is that the county does stay involved, and I've been working with um county commissioners for them to hopefully present a similar resolution, and I agree with you that all city residents are county residents, and my hope would be that these can continue to be shared cost.

Councilmember Thomas.

Uh yes, a question for council member Parker.

Uh, this is uh a study for phase one.

Could you tell us a little bit what you anticipate that phase two would be?

Well, um as you know, in the plan, there are multiple options.

Um for myself, I haven't uh thought that far in terms of phase two because phase one starts a pilot program in the city.

Uh, and then phase two, there's an option to expand the call types from just the two call types, or to consider span expanding into the county.

So I haven't thought about phase two.

I've been focused on how can we move towards phase one, which I think uh with all that's going on, I imagine it being a slow process just to uh to implement phase one.

Council member Grant.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um, I want to start off with, I mean, I I do plan on supporting this.

Um I have I have a few reasons why just echoing what uh Councilman DeBarber Lehman spoke on just in terms of the pattern um that I've been able to take notice uh when it comes to commissioning a study, right?

Um well before we came onto this council, um a study and a task force was approved, right?

The city uh and the mayor, you know, took the liberty to invest in that task force.

And so um I I just think it it's it's practical for us to then try to put these things into practice if we can.

Um, I do want to give credit to our our co our co-response because you know that program has definitely been effective uh since it started.

I've had the opportunity to actually be in the middle of a crisis while law enforcement uh net behavior specialists arrived, and I you know I think they handled it exceptionally well.

Um and so if there, I mean, if there is an opportunity to uh figure out how these two things can coexist, um I would I would like for us as a council body to to try to figure that out.

Um but these studies cost money, right?

And it's public money, and so if we're willing to make the investment to create a task force and get recommendations, I think would only be right for us to at least give an effort to try to implement those recommendations.

And um, you know, I I would I would kind of be a hypocrite if I didn't uh agree with alternative response, right?

I would I would like to say that even my experience uh with violence intervention work uh was similar to that, right?

We showed up on the scene born shootings, we engaged with individuals uh before law enforcement was was needed, uh and it helped save lives, right?

It also alleviated some of the pressure away from you know our fire department and our our police department, and so um I would like the opportunity to see this go forward, let's see what phase one looks like and see if we can alleviate some of that pressure off our public service.

Thank you.

Councilmember Adams and then Housley.

Thank you.

Um I uh too want to say thank you to all of the individuals that have participated in the task force and have advocated for this.

Um the letters and the emails and the calls um I've appreciated and the and the conversations.

The thing that I keep uh getting hung up on the existence of a co-responder program already that I believe addresses a big chunk of the concerns that the alternative response is moving forward.

I what I've heard articulated is um the difference in having someone appear on scene who has a uniform versus someone who appears on scene who does not.

The difference between the skill sets that the KPD officer may have versus a skilled um social worker.

And I would just like to ask uh Chief Noel to speak to the um actualities of the co-responder program when the call comes and it is deemed a co-responder pro uh co-responder response.

Does that team have the ability to say this is really one where we need the the ununiformed person to address this?

Sure, that's a great question.

So I want to first off say I'm a huge supporter of our co-response team.

I think it's been a game changer for the Knoxville Police Department in so many different ways and being able to provide excellent response to our community, but also really contribute to the culture change of our organization.

It's been has a major impact on our organization.

But to answer your question, you know, our co-response teams, the officer of the clinician work together as partners.

So in some cases, they both approach um the patient and they they and and they deal with that the patient together.

In some instances, the officer is the one that's taking a lead, and the clinician steps back.

And in some instances, the commission takes the lead, and the officer is way back handling the call.

When you talk to our teams, each call is different.

And the commission and the officer develop a really good rapport and a really good, you know, ability to communicate.

And each each client is different, and they do a really good job.

But if you question many instances where the commission is taking a lead and the officer is hanging way back almost out of sight, and I I it really works great.

I'm and I again I'm a huge supporter of our program.

Um all of the data that I've seen uh supports what you're saying in terms of the success of the co-responder program.

The biggest trouble that I have heard is that you have only six teams.

Um, and that is not the full staffing that I think is desired.

That's correct.

You know, we started off on under the mayor's leadership um even before before I came here.

The team was developed as a pirate pilot program, and we've now grown to six teams.

The item that we're gonna talk about a little later, growing to nine will allow me to bring our team to a district-based focus.

So not only that would allow us to have three teams in each district focused on a geographical area, it would allow us to do a lot more personalized follow-ups.

Ideally, we want to be at 12 teams total in our city, 12 police officers and 12 clinicians doing this work citywide.

This will allow to give us robust coverage seven days a week, not only to respond to these calls, but to be able to do follow-up.

Uh, in the brief time I've got left here, again, thank you for answering um both of those questions, and uh I I'm thinking about this very practically.

And when I think about the calls that I have placed and the different circumstances uh and the interactions that I've had, I think about the value of having options.

And I know that the alternative response is being presented as here's another option, but I think it is a third option where we have two functioning options at this time, and one that has very good data behind it, and inside that option, we're equipping the people who are on the ground with the ability to make the decision at that moment as to what is going to help the individual who is in crisis most safely for them and for the people responding to the call.

Um, so for that reason, when I think about limited funds, to your point, uh Councilman DeBartalebin, I I think about what this cost is.

Do we invest in a third response or do we put money where the data is saying this is working?

Council member Helsley.

Thank you, Mayor.

I'm kind of all over the map here, but Andy and Barney were in 1960 when there wasn't much crime in Knoxville either.

So just so you know it was 1960, it's been a hot minute ago.

Um so when we've had the workshop, whenever we had that, has that been two years ago?

I don't know for since since I've been on council.

Cahoots out of Eugene, Oregon was the was what we were given as the example of the do-all of this entire process.

And they're now defunct, so I don't know of another example that I've been given other than Cookville, which of those 35,000 people in Cookville, 10,000 of them are Tennessee Tech students.

So I I don't know that I can take much from that considering that Knoxville's handling Knoxville and all the surrounding areas.

Um I mean, you mentioned mayor, most of the things that I had on here anyway, but with MPAT, we've got all these outreach workers from CAC and VMC, and I'm not even sure where else, but I know they're on the streets all the time helping the downtown ambassadors.

I just think we have a many avenues to get this work done.

I'm not opposed, I mean, to anything that works, I'm for it.

You know, because we need to do better.

But I just don't know that it's totally necessary at this point in time, but that's just my thoughts kind of from all over the map.

So I don't think right now we're in pits needed.

Thank you, Councilmember Fugit.

Thank you.

Um, just a couple of thoughts.

I I've been here the whole time we've been discussing this, so this is your sixth.

Um talking about um alternative response.

My my concerns are just practically speaking, much more practical.

One of the concerns that I keep hearing every time we talk about this is first of all, E911 has to say that they're gonna do a code for it.

They have yet to acknowledge that they want to do that because they call they do calls for all the services, the sheriff and KPD.

So like my colleague Councilwoman Adams, I'm a little hesitant to start yet down another path if this one isn't full, if this one hasn't been maximized.

Another concern I have is what does the plan actually obligate, this proposal actually obligate the city to do.

Again, the timeline is not as clear to me how long that will take to get there.

We put out a request for proposals, if I'm correct, mayor, and something along this line, and we couldn't find organizations who were willing to answer the RFP, which would mean you would have to be a functioning organization with liability insurance and all those sorts of things.

So I'm I'm not sure that we're ready to pull the trigger on a totally formulated plan.

Those are just my questions, which is why I hesitate to say I'm committed to the proposal as it stands.

Councilmember Parker.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um I wanted to respond to a couple of comments and just emphasize that what community response provides is different than co-response.

So I would not view the programs as working to address the same needs or fill the same gaps.

So I just want to emphasize that the two programs do have different purposes that we are seeing a need for in Knoxville.

In terms of the timeline, um, I believe we have some flexibility, and I believe we can use this plan to help identify potential funding sources to help move this this work forward.

So my assumption when reading the plan is not that all of the budget numbers uh outlined in the plan would be city tax dollars, but that we based on the uh information provided in the plan, um, that we would be able to find uh funding to support this program.

As Chief Noel uh indicated, we have an item on our agenda coming up for the opioid abatement uh grant uh that the city is putting towards the co-response uh program, but those are funding sources that could also go towards a community responder program.

Um then also I think it's really important, and this is something that police officers uh have told me themselves is that when they go into a situation, uh they are law enforcement, and that is their role, and and that is their duty.

And so um there's not an ability for them to take that hat off and not lead uh uh you know, with with a law enforcement approach.

Um so to remove them from these situations where they're where they don't necessarily have the tools needed uh for that call, uh it would benefit not only um uh the individuals reaching out for help, but I believe also our officers to remove some of those calls off of their plate.

And I did include uh as attached to this, I know my uh agenda item was really long, and I apologize.

I wanted to include all of the uh attachments that I referenced in the resolution so that you could uh review it for yourselves.

Um but the 21st century policing report that was commissioned by uh KPD in 2023, uh it goes through in details um and shares a lot of the officers' frustrations with dealing with uh I don't remember the exact language, but it was the the revolving door of calls uh uh and the individuals that they continue to see uh repeatedly, and that was something that stuck out to me from speaking with Cookville, as that through their community response program, which pairs a an EMT from the fire department with a behavioral health specialist, they're actually able to move those folks and stabilize those folks in a way where they don't continue to be a repeat call that the police department then has to respond to.

Um so that's you know, that's the goal of the of a community responder program, and this effort is that we um are able to uh provide this service that will have uh significant impacts on the workload of our officers, uh the mental strain on our officers, but also provide a more appropriate service for those who are experiencing those mental health crises.

Um I just wanted to clarify the difference between the two programs and also the plan in terms of who would respond to this RFP.

The plan does highlight that we have new partners in the city, you know, probably since uh six years ago that we would likely respond to this RFP.

But those are conversations that I anticipate taking place uh following this resolution, and why I do think it would be a slower process towards implementation, so more conversations can take place.

Councilmember Thomas.

Uh yeah, I think um from all um indication about the present uh co-responder system that we have now is it's working really good, but it's continued to concern all of us that it's not being funded fully, and it's not even around the clock funding.

Um at the same time, uh there's a lot of good data here in this study.

Um some things are promising, it's difficult to um kind of transfer what works in one city and what works in the other.

It's just uh every every city is unique, and Knoxville is certainly unique.

Um I think um I will support uh the resolution uh with understanding that as we consider continue these discussions, uh we're gonna have to really look at cost benefit and so we're not really committing any money here that would probably detract from the co-responder program or the way the police is handling things right now.

Um but there's a lot of good ideas in the report, and some of the cities that have implemented it seems to be working, and I guess I would just like to kind of keep the idea alive here, and as we work through it and uh go into the budgetary process, then we can make some decisions about allocating how much funds are available, how much we want to direct toward the uh existing co-responder program.

And then I think uh just continue study uh this uh plan that's a lot of work is gone into it, and a lot of the data is actually quite impressive as far as transferring some of the calls and responsibilities from uh standard policing to uh less police oriented type of of aid.

So um, you know, this was this is a tough one, but I think I'm going to uh well I'm gonna go ahead and support the resolution, but with the understanding that this is ongoing, and uh we will still have to sort out uh cost benefit of of the co-responder program and uh you know how practical it is to implement um the results of this study.

Uh just a point of information.

I uh have been in communication with the mayor of Cookville, Miss Lauren Wheaton, and she just clarified to me, which I didn't fully understand that basically what they have in Cookville is a co-response, but it's with EMS uh rather than and then it's with law enforcement when they feel that that's necessary.

So basically it's it is a co-response program, but with EMS and law enforcement as needed.

And our co-response program, I'm really proud of it.

It's working really well, it's changing the culture of KPD, and it is serving our city better.

I would also venture to say the police officers um their load has been lightened by all these other efforts that we've been creating and investing millions of dollars in to address mental health issues.

People go right to the empath center on their own.

They don't need to be brought there by a police officer or uh any city employee.

Uh they can go there if they're they or or someone they care about is experiencing a mental health crisis.

We're putting a lot of money into that.

Uh so I I guess I would just say um that starting new programs takes a lot of time, energy, staff capacity, and um occasionally it would be helpful if Knox County, to whom we all pay our taxes, uh took the lead on this sort of thing.

And and maybe this resolution would be best considered after Knox County brings a similar resolution rather than the city um maybe um you know sets people's expectations that this is our job when maybe it is the job more collectively and when the people in charge of health care uh would be more appropriate to take the lead on this financially and just capacity building.

We're also in the middle of uh strategic plan and you know uh um understanding and evaluating how we can improve our EMS and our fire department.

Um and so I think uh you know that's just something another important thing to consider.

Councilmember Thomas.

Uh yes, uh yeah, just to get to kind of the crux, I think, of the whole thing is like we all want some kind of alternative response.

And kind of the difference is is do you send out a policeman with the alternative response unit at the same time, which is what we're doing now, uh, or the new suggestion.

But we also pay the K-town Connects ambassadors who do answer calls.

That's right.

And they they're literally, I mean, there are businesses who like if they have someone who's an aggressive panhandler and they don't know how to deal with it, and their staff needs help, they'll call the people who with the green shirts on who do have social work training, and that's one less call for uh our police officers to handle.

So we are doing uh community response that's not law enforcement based already, and we're paying for it.

And and in that case, it's a partnership with um other partners, not just the city.

And so that that's working.

I guess sometimes we we don't um we need to take credit for things that we're already doing that really are alternative response.

They just don't have that exact title.

Yeah, and I'm a fan of the ambassador program, you know, and I've gotten to know them personally, and I see what they do, you know.

And uh, but I think that's just located downtown.

So if I'm not mistaken, the ambassador program just covers.

I think that's what the phase one would recommend anyhow.

So they're initiative, Tennessee, yeah, for centers.

Right.

Yeah.

We have uh the date, the K Town Connects work on Cumberland too in partnership with UT.

Okay.

So the difference is sending out police officers with the person who's uh the non police officer, the trained uh person uh who would deal directly with the people, hopefully.

And then the alternative or I guess community-based is simply you don't send out a policeman at that time, but you have them as a backup, and you make them readily available.

And so the study is pointing to success of doing this, is not sending out the police with the trained social worker, if I may use that term.

Um, but you would have them as a backup and readily accessible, and then the data that we've been given at least basically seems to see that that coverage is more and it's actually more cost efficient.

So that's kind of the that's kind of the balance we're trying to do is do you really need the policeman to go out and stand in the background and then but be there immediately in case or is there much of a risk in sending out only the social workers, but then having a backup that you can get to immediately.

Thank you.

Your time is up and there's a few other people.

Um Vice Mayor.

Thank you.

Um Chief Noel, can you answer a question for me?

Because in the in the scenario that um Mr.

Thomas talked about, it was the police aren't there, but if you need them, they'll be right there.

Um so that implies to me that they are in the area or they can't be right there.

So what do you I mean with our staffing?

What is the likelihood when someone calls for service?

How quickly do officers often be able to respond to what could be a become a difficult dangerous situation?

Our average response time is about five minutes.

If you're talking about the ambassadors, a lot of times, you know, the officers that work downtown and the um the ambassadors work really closely together.

A lot of times all officers will see somebody and ask the ambassadors to go check them out, or the ambassadors will um know someone's a little, you know, a little trouble, and they'll ask the officers either to be with them or they'll ask the officers to go ahead and they would they they work really good together um in the downtown area.

A little different there, the response time is a lot quicker in the downtown area as opposed to citywide.

I don't know if that answers your question or not.

Well it does, but I mean the the pilot would be in the downtown area, which is what we're doing now, and if I understand that right, phase one is confined to this area.

Yeah, general response time is around you know five five minutes plus, but you know, if you're an emergency, you know, sit sit sit quiet for five minutes and see how long that feels, you know, if you're emergency, it's a while.

Thank you.

Councilmember Parker.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um a few things to respond to.

I did not get a chance to talk to um Cookville City manager, but they were very clear on the difference between their co-response program that they previously had and their community response program.

Um, but they do pair a uh uh uh uh a member of their fire department uh with a behavioral health specialist, so maybe that's why you're thinking of it in terms of co-response, but there's not a law enforcement response.

No, but I said it was sort of co-response for EMS, like EMS.

It's like um there is a paid city worker who goes on those calls, in addition to the social worker.

One thing they wanted expensive is what is the thing.

Well, and that you know, that's the model that they decided to move forward with, which I think you know could be great, and that's something that we've talked about in Knoxville.

But what the plan for Knoxville recommends is um to trained professionals, so not uh a city staff person, not a member of fire or police.

Um and and and just wanted to reiterate that one thing that they that they um you know indicated because they were so nervous about starting a community response program that they did have uh you know police waiting around the corner uh on some of those initial calls, but then found that it just wasn't needed.

Uh and so they they stopped doing that.

And and since then have had no uh violent incidents, no serious injuries, no arrest made uh over the 400 calls that they've responded to over the last 18 months.

Um so you know, there are great things to learn from uh what Cookville has done.

There are also you know, larger cities like Nashville, like Durham, like others, and Cookville actually went to Durham uh to visit with them and learn about their program before they implemented it.

So there are other are other cities who have implemented um a community response program and they're seeing those cost savings, they're seeing those how well it's doing in the community.

Um I uh um sorry I lost my train of thought.

I still see a need for it, and I still hear from the community that they see a need for it.

And I I still see it as a less expensive option.

I am I need to pull up the report.

Does anyone from Knoxville Heart know the phase one?

Could you come up, Elizabeth?

Because I saw that the the could you talk a little bit about phase one for us to help clear up any things that you've heard that are incorrect phase one starts in the city of Knoxville, not downtown Knoxville.

So this would be a much broader area than just downtown.

So I wanted to clarify that.

Is it okay if I clarify a few other things?

Because there was a lot of misunderstandings.

And it might actually be good to postpone tonight to clear up some of the under misunderstandings because I have a whole list here.

Um I know the comparison between Knoxville and Cookville is uh not exact.

However, there are a lot of cities, 80 oh well, I think it's over 90 now that have done community responder programs, including Denver, Durham, Austin, and many others.

So it's not just a tiny Cookville option.

This is an option for cities much bigger than ours.

Um council member Adams emphasized the important importance of having options, and I think that's exactly why we need a community response.

So we have another option of response.

It is good to um have a continuum of care, a continuum of response that meets people where they're at on the spectrum of crisis, and you you don't need to um you know nail attack with a sledgehammer.

You use a little tack hammer, and and we only need community response to respond to many of these really low-level issues that don't have any weapons involved.

Um somebody mentioned something about E911 not wanting to make a new code.

We don't need to make any new codes.

Um we are recommending the report recommends using two existing codes that already are in use, so there's no new codes needed.

Um this is not about committing funds.

We are only asking for this so that we can continue the conversation.

Um it's an endorsement of the report, but we're not gonna be like, oh, you have to follow every single letter of this report.

We're very collaborative and we want to come up with solutions that work for everybody.

So I don't know how much time I have is about now.

Sorry.

I'm sorry.

Your time is up.

Um any other questions or comments?

I have a few.

Yes, Mr.

Lloyd.

Uh I'd like to weigh in on a couple of things.

I've been listening to this very intently.

Um does anyone know if if 911 is really on board with this?

I mean, it seems like it would take quite a commitment to trying to do that.

Mr.

Lloyd, that's that's an important question.

And I'll just say that the um report was written by the consultants and the members of the task force, including 911, uh CAC, McNabb, um, KPD, others did not uh endorse the recommendations of the report.

They did not adopt it.

Uh HART is one member, one part of this task force.

Um, but the task force experts who served from our side, uh, you know, city, county, and so forth, um, did not endorse these recommendations.

Including 911.

Uh the other question I had was um this program that we're calling phase one.

Did is this the program that was actually recommended by the task force?

It seems as though our colleagues with the county seemed to have stepped back from this.

Is that the case?

The Knox County Sheriff's Office um, I don't believe is an active participant, even though they were had a seat at the table similar with other county participants.

I think they had uh maybe they came to the meetings, but I don't think they participated actively and one last question for the chief.

Uh can KPD guarantee the safety of the people who are participating in this program.

Can we guarantee their safety?

No, sir.

Thank you.

That's about all I have at this time.

Councilmember Helsley, he was at somebody, I don't know.

Did you ask about 911?

I actually talked to Brad Anders today, and I I don't know if whether I hope I'm not violating a confidential thing, but he told me if Brad Anders was voting, he would vote no.

So that's just what he said.

I think he thought it they didn't need it and it wasn't a needed program.

I don't have any idea, but that's what he said.

So I'm just sharing for whatever that's worth.

Councilmember Grant.

I'll make a motion to call for the question.

Okay.

Motion has been made to call for the questions been made and seconded.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

No.

I think uh I think uh Can we do a roll call?

Uh Councilman Lloyd, the call for the question is uh not debatable, you just vote on whether debate is over.

So we'll go to roll call vote on calling for the question is what Mr.

Johnson Councilman Grant.

Yes, Councilman Helsley.

Yes.

Councilman uh Councilman Lloyd yes votes means you want to close debate on this agenda item.

Councilman Parker.

No.

Councilman Thomas.

Yes.

Councilman Adams.

Yes.

Councilman Debart Laban.

Yes.

Vice Mayor Fugit.

Yes.

Mayor the vote is seven in favor, one opposed.

Okay, the motion to call for the question passes.

Now the you need to vote on the motion before you, which is in to a yes vote would be in favor of this resolution, a no vote would be not in favor of this resolution.

May I like to make a substitute motion to postpone this item until our April 28th City Council meeting?

Okay, there's a motion to postpone this until April 28th.

Uh is there a second to that motion to postpone?

Okay, motion to postpone fails for lack of a second.

Now back to the original motion on the resolution at hand.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

No.

I think we better do roll call.

Councilman Parker.

Yes.

Councilman Thomas.

Yes.

Councilman Adams.

No.

Councilman DeBarde-Labin.

Yes.

Councilman Fugit.

No.

Councilman Grant.

Yes.

Councilman Helsley.

Councilman Lloyd.

No.

Mayor, the vote is four in favor and four opposed.

Okay, time vote resolution fails.

Next item, please.

12 T.

12T is an ordinance or rather a resolution authorizing the mayor to execute any and all documents necessary to apply for and accept a grant award of up to $1,600,000 with no required local match from the Tennessee Opioid Abatements Council for substance abuse advocacy and prevention and for combating overdose deaths.

Motion made and seconded.

Any questions or discussion?

Councilmember Parker.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um on the last agenda item.

No, no.

And and I'm really proud of all of the work that community members have done and will continue to do, I know, in order to bring community response to Knoxville.

And actually, Human Rights Watch has a report out on community response, and one of the programs that they highlight is out of New Orleans.

Which is interesting.

So hopefully our police chief can learn a few things from his former colleagues.

What I really want to challenge my colleagues to do is to talk to some of these advocates in the community who are pushing for community response, and talk to them about why.

And talk to them about what they have seen and what they see as a need in Knoxville.

You know, we are trying to compromise when it comes to community response.

But I'm not receiving reports on community response.

All I'm hearing is it's going great, but I'm not seeing any reports that show me it's going great.

What we've seen are reports, including one from 21 21st century that's in the packet that talks about the difficulty the program had with hiring uh behavioral health specialists for the program.

And what is mentioned is not their pay.

What is mentioned is the type of work that these social workers decided that they didn't want to be engaged in.

So while we have a full team of of six co-responders now, I worry about how that um staffing level will be maintained.

Uh another thing that we learned from that 20th century policing report is that at times when co-response has been short staffed, uh, it was uh uh uh a police officer who was responding to those calls without the pay behavioral health specialist uh accompanying them.

Um that was in the report.

So, how many times are those situations occurring uh in in the work of the co-response team?

It would be great to get some reports so that we know over the last six years what's the update on the number of arrests that have occurred.

Uh, what's the update on the number of individuals that we've seen receive treatment and no longer be one of those calls that is coming in for uh KPD?

I believe uh for a uh a grant like this, not only should council members receive the grant application so that we can see what what uh is being requested.

I requested to receive the grant application and was told that it hasn't been developed yet because it's due in a week.

And so I guess you're gonna write it in a week.

I will make another request after you've written the application if you would send it and share it with me because the community wants to know updates on co-response, and I have no updates to share with them other than the staffing struggles.

Um I would like to see more uh trauma-informed services uh in our city.

That's one thing that the homeless coalition was calling for when I brought the warming center resolution forward.

That's not only for warming centers, but that's for all of our services.

Uh, there was a report conducted uh and and facilitated by the McNav Center that that set it as a priority that certain vulnerable populations, especially those experiencing mental health crisis, are better served by systems or of care rather than the criminal justice system.

And so it's our responsibility as cities to come up with solutions that divert people away from the criminal justice system or any exposure to law enforcement, especially when they are having a health crisis.

So I just challenge my uh colleagues, you will be here for a lot longer than I will.

Uh, but to talk to these service providers, I also wanted to challenge Justice Knox to do the same thing.

It concerned me when they came forward that they only have talked to CAT employee rather than the actual bus drivers.

Talk to the people who are doing the work that you want to impact.

Talk to the people who will get the services that you want to implement.

Don't just talk to folks at the top levels, the policymakers and all of those.

Talk to the folks who are need these services so that we can actually get the services in place that these folks need.

Okay, any more questions or discussion on item 12T.

Seeing none, all those in favor, please say aye.

Uh any opposed?

Motion carries.

Council members, there's been a request for a brief recess, so let's reconvene and at 818, please.

Okay, council members, it's 818.

I'm calling this meeting back to order.

Um, I didn't realize, but all we had left was public forum because I just didn't turn the page on the agenda, so I apologize, but bathroom breaks are important.

Uh so public forum will begin with Melissa Maddox.

Melissa Maddox, are you present?

Melissa Maddox.

Okay, Miss Maddox, if you could come to the podium, please state your name and address for the record, and you'll have up to three minutes to address counsel.

Okay.

Hi, my name is Melissa Maddox.

My address is 301 South Mary Street, Knoxville, Tennessee, 37914.

And I had some concerns.

I just bought my first house.

This is my first council meeting ever.

Um, but there is a house direct diagonally for me that's like fallen in.

It's totally against codes.

Um, and there's children in our area.

And so there's like some safety issues because there's oh homeless that is like camping out there.

And um the back neighbor to me has said this has been going on for three to four years.

Um nothing gets done about it.

And I was like, oh, well, I just you know bought this house and I want to feel as safe as possible.

Um, so I didn't really know like how to go about it because really the house needs to be condemned.

Like either the fire department can have it and set it on fire and use it as a a learning thing to put it out, but it's really just an eye sore.

I don't really know what I'm I don't even know.

This is what I'm supposed to be saying.

But I you know, my main concern is like to be the voice for the mothers who can't be here because there is children around, and we don't have really much space or backyards.

So there is this little boy who definitely needs to run in that little field beside um the address is 3115 Shields Avenue, and there's a K U B power plant that is like right there.

So really they could just buy that and extend their you know property and it'd be safe for this little boy to kind of run in that like field.

Um but yeah, I just have concerns about like the safety and like that area of like what to do as a city.

What do you all miss Maddox?

At the end of the meeting, I'll have a staff person uh talk to you and get that information down and get back to you tomorrow.

Okay.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Next person um signed up for public forum is Isaiah Green.

Isaiah Green.

If you could come to the podium, please state your name and address for the record.

And you'll have up to three minutes to address counsel.

Hey, how's it going?

My name's Isaiah Green.

I live at 4311 Walnut Ridge Lane.

Uh I'm gonna keep this a little bit more brief because of how long uh we've all been here.

I think everybody would probably appreciate that.

I left Knoxville in 2015.

I returned this year.

Uh the growth has been crazy since I've been gone.

In the time that I've been gone, I've lived in much larger cities, and I've experienced the problems that come along with cities that don't plan community care and quality of life along the lines of growth.

You know, they opt for efficiency and they opt for a low price tag, and I see the harm that that does.

And looking at today's agenda, what I saw was a push for mixed-use zoning for expansion of public transportation for things like the alternative response program, which I would like to say that I lived in Denver, and that program is highly popular and highly effective, and it's the main reason why I'm here.

And I really want to express my appreciation for councilwoman Parker for pushing on issues like this.

I would like to express my gratitude that you guys are looking at these issues, and that you are, you know, seem to have a prudential outlook on the quality of life for Knoxville and its citizens.

And I would just like you to continue to keep in the back of your minds that with low price tags inefficiency, there may be greater consequences down the road.

I think that's all.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh last person signed up for public forum is Rick Roach.

Mr.

Roach, you'll have up to three minutes to address counsel.

Rick Roach Knoxville.

Once again, you guys have the pooch.

When are you guys going to realize that?

I'm not going to go there.

I'm not going to do that.

The police department can get millions of dollars to further surveil us.

You have no problem with doing that.

No problem at all.

No problem.

Mayor, you've made this a political football alternative response.

You made it a political football.

And it's your rules.

Okay.

And people are going to still not be tended to.

I'm going to say that again.

People will still not be tended to.

And I heard every one of you, except for Dentzel, obviously Councilwoman Proctor, Charlie, to some degree.

The bar LeBan, thank you, sir.

Try to find a reason to not do this.

Zero fatalities of the caregivers of the professionals, to our knowledge.

Zero.

So that's that that's over with.

You don't have to question that anymore.

Okay.

Remember when you did this vote?

Remember Lisa Edwards.

Remember Brother Bats.

Because they could have been dealt with differently if we'd have had alternative response in place.

And there are multiple more examples, and primarily of the underserved communities, uh constituency mayor.

Okay.

Who are people that look like me?

You you this is a no-brainer.

And Ms.

Pugate, have some guts.

Let's expand this back to where it was five minutes so people can say what they gotta say and quit limiting to three here and three there.

Because I'm sorry.

You may think she's not getting paid enough.

Council members, that concludes public forum without objection.

This meeting is adjourned.