And then it would work.

Interesting.

But okay, so Oracle, that's in phase.

That's what I'm saying.

It's very roller coaster like.

It's very high stress when it comes to like showed me I can do it on grandmas class, which is nice.

Okay.

So view the event, maybe see if the audio is working.

So are you are you?

No.

Hopefully implementations are like the worst thing ever.

I would be able to do that.

It's um so I'm more on the sales side.

So I'm a solution engineer.

Cool.

Which means that I work with the sales teach the sales team, they do sales product.

Okay.

Um but we suppose.

I know at least until now until Mel gets here.

The know-how, everything product.

So like when you or whatever other customer they're recording when they have questions about can the product do this, or how do we integrate with our existing systems?

That's where we're going to do that.

Yeah, cool.

So did you have like a technical signal ground and then she was putting chairs away and she was coming from the same thing that you and Emily were at, yeah.

How did it go?

So good.

Okay.

Yeah.

So we came from marketing and one.

On 500, you have to do that.

Do you know it's like two houses away from center?

On 500.

Okay.

It's there's a there's a little reception type almost to center, and it's just right in front of that.

I've got it.

If you don't like what I have, just that's right where the flood came through too.

So two years.

Yeah.

Just fun to hear their stories.

Because we fabricate and we erect.

So our processes are just very complicated.

So every slide is a second wow.

Wow.

Makes you think should we've really gone with them, or should we go with someone?

I mean, it's like let's get back to paper.

Yeah, yeah.

Excel.

Why not?

Why not just like so?

You have to keep talking about that every day.

You guys would get to the point where you're trying to convince yourself that it really will be worth it, but you're not sure.

Yeah, and I'm going to go to the thing with three.

So what do you actually do?

Like what is your unanimous?

It has to be the unanimous.

Yeah, you have a quorum.

I thought Brett was gonna be here.

Yeah.

No, Brent and Tyson.

And Ken were always out according to what Norain told me.

Yeah, but Greg.

But Greg would have apparently do them.

Um that I forgot about it.

We can go with three.

Sounds like it's not right.

We can go with probably the same issues regardless of which vendor you want it's a good idea.

Why am I voting?

Because you've been here longest.

Um what we probably need to do is take a vote who's gonna be acting chair once you start someone needs to start.

Well, I can do it.

Do it.

Okay.

Do you do you want me to sit in the middle?

Or can I sit here to speak?

I like my spot.

Okay.

If Greg shows up, do I pass?

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, welcome everyone tonight to the Lehigh City Planning Commission meeting on October 23rd.

We're happy to have you here.

Um let's get can we take a vote um for who will be acting chair until uh Chair Jackson arrives?

Is that what you want me to do?

So I'm gonna need a motion and a second and a vote.

I'll motion to have Emily be acting chair for tonight.

I'll second it.

Okay, a motion and a second.

All those in favor, aye.

Any opposed.

That motion passes.

Okay, let's move on to item number two.

Um the consent agenda.

Two point one.

It I guess I'll take a motion.

Ms.

Commissioner, I put forward a motion that we approve both agenda items 2.1 and 2.2.

Okay, a motion.

Is there a second?

I'll second.

Okay, motion and a second.

All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed?

Okay, those motions pass.

Moving on to regular agenda.

Item 3.1.

Okay.

Um item 3.1 is public hearing and recommendation of Eric Smith's request for review of the Smith zone change on 0.4 acres located at 235.

West State Street changing the zoning from R2 medium density residential to neighborhood commercial.

Um this is um it matches the general plan designation for the area and it allows for a variety of commercial uses.

Uh but the applicant has expressed interest in a potential office building, but we would see that later in the future with the site plan application.

So with that, I'll turn it over to the planning commission for any questions.

Okay, and then just real quick, I just want to make it clear to any applicant who's come that because there's only three of us.

Uh if you would like to hold your application um to wait until there's a full quorum, that is totally an option for you as well.

Um but with the three of us, um you're just all three of us are gonna have to agree.

Actually, pursuant to 3-2-7, all it says is that all actions shall require the vote of the majority of the members.

Okay.

So just two.

But I just want the applicants to understand the situation and feel like they get a full fair shot.

Um okay, so with that, any questions for staff on item 3.1.

No, okay.

Um is the applicant present?

Yeah, if you'll come to the front and state your name.

Yep.

Bob Smith.

Would you mind pulling the microphone over to you?

Uh we have people who like to listen online.

Okay.

Bob Smith.

Uh I'm just I have no uh questions or comments at this time.

I think it's straightforward.

So thank you.

Yeah, thank you for being here.

Um commissioners, do you have any questions for the applicant?

I don't.

No.

Okay, thank you.

All right.

Any other questions for staff?

If not, I'll take a motion.

Oh, public hearing.

Thank you.

Um, we'll open this to the the public.

Opening public hearing.

If anyone would like to give a comment, feel free to come to the mic.

Okay, seeing none, are there any online comments?

Not on this item.

Okay, closed closing public hearing.

Now back to the commission.

Um to make a motion.

I will make a motion.

Go ahead.

Item 3.1, public hearing and recommendation of Eric Smith's request for review of the zone Smith's zone change on point four acres located at 235 West State Street, changing the zoning from R2 medium density residential to neighborhood commercial.

I move that we give a positive recommendation with the findings that the effect of the proposed amendment on the character of the surrounding area that it's good.

Um it's consistent with the goals and policies of the general plan.

It's consistent and compatible with the proposed um the proposed zone change is consistent and compatible with the general plan.

Land uses of nearby and adjoining properties.

Uh it is suitable for the existing uses identified by the general plan.

And please include all DRC comments.

I'll second it.

Okay, motion and a second.

All those in favor, aye.

Any opposed?

Great.

That motion passes.

Thank you for being here.

Moving on to 3.2.

Okay.

Item 3.2 is public hearing and consideration of John Hadfield's request for preliminary subdivision approval of the overview, three lot subdivision located at 600 East Utah Highlands Drive.

Um there was a previous approval for this three lot subdivision in 2006, but obviously it expired, and that's why it's here again.

And all of the lots meet the R 115 standards.

So with that, I'll turn it over to the planning commission for any questions.

Any questions for staff?

No, it meets the standards.

Okay.

Is the applicant present?

If you'll come to the front and state your name, and if you have anything to add, feel free.

Well, after 20 years.

So she they're getting old and Hadfields want to just build a flat lot up here.

That's it.

Um I have I've got a question.

So has anything changed from 2006?

Oh, yeah.

With this to here.

No, well, I mean 6th East is changed.

We're under construction on that.

That's some of the reason why it's coming forward as well.

But no, as far as I mean, they have got the fill brought up a little bit more, but like orientation and nothing.

None of that's changed.

Yep.

Okay.

Thank you.

Well, this is a public hearing.

Um I'll go ahead and open up the public hearing.

If anyone would like to come to the mic and give opinion, thoughts, or comments, feel free to do so.

Scott Pettett.

Um for a house that's uh to the right of this map.

Um that's separated by another couple of fields that were the first house.

So I and I don't know the procedure exactly here, but just have some questions.

I don't know if that's proper to ask.

Um can you bring that map back up?

Uh yes.

So um which direction are would the houses or can you uh can you um yeah?

So looks they could be facing six or uh Utah Highlands.

Is that the other thing?

Yeah, that's okay.

Yeah, it looks like they have lot frontage facing Utah Highlands Drive.

And just to clarify, it might only be three residential homes.

Three residential homes.

No townhouses, no high rise, nothing.

Okay.

Um just to add, could there be ADUs on these lots?

Okay.

Can you explain what that is?

Yeah, an accessory dwelling unit.

Um, it's essentially like a mother-in-law apartment type thing, um, to based on their lot size due to state mandate, they can put ADUs on these lots.

Okay.

Is there gonna be any type of a frontage road?

Um anything in front there to uh so when the homes are built and there's a driveway that goes in that the driveways will come off of again from Utah Highlands Drive, right?

Yeah.

So is there any concern that you know this now they just opened up the soccer fields that are um less than a mile away, and um this is now gonna become quite a busy road, it'll probably alternate, take some of the traffic off at 1200.

Um is there any concern for the amount of traffic going through that intersection, and therefore is there is there consideration given to um a little bit of a frontage road, if you will, that goes in front of those homes so that you know, as uh traffic goes in and out that it's not uh becomes a safety issue.

You can answer that.

Is that not a big deal?

I don't know if it's something for Gary or maybe for the applicant to answer.

Oh, yeah.

We haven't given any consideration, at least as far as I've seen, to a frontage road in there.

Um I know our traffic engineers looked at traffic in and around this area.

Um I haven't talked to them specifically about new developments in that area, but um and I uh you know I I would agree and I would think that you know normally that's not necessary, but this is gonna be a really busy intersection, you know, with all of the traffic that's gonna be picked up from the other side of the hill now coming down 600 east and then back up again um and then either going right or left and um uh a little bit of a concern.

Yeah.

I know if it gets to the point where uh traffic light is warranted, I'm sure that would be in the plan to put one in.

I don't know if it is currently right now or not, though, or is projected to be.

Because we're again we're in that first cul-de-sac, and I don't know this, this is I'll just put that out there as well.

But um, this is gonna be increasing the traffic through there.

One thing is we I walk my dog all the time.

I'm retired now.

And one thing we notice is that that road is uh there's a lot of of speeding that goes on on Utah Highlands.

Um will this how do you think this will affect that?

I don't know that it would really have a big effect to put three houses on there.

What about going the other direction?

And maybe that kind of goes above and beyond this discussion, but yeah.

I can't imagine three houses would have a big effect on the traffic in the area.

But anyone else have any concerns?

I uh um so there will be no traffic.

Uh the traffic that's gonna be increased, which would most of it will be on the 600 east.

Um no frontage road there either.

Okay.

Uh I think that's it.

Thank you.

I was gonna say we could get your contact information for the traffic engineer who's not here tonight.

Luke Segmiller, if you wanted to reach out to him.

Yeah, yeah.

We have a scar.

Appreciate it.

Yep.

Thank you for your comments.

Is there anyone else from the public who would like to speak on this item?

Anyone online?

There's an online comment.

Yeah.

Um it was a two-part comment.

I think they saw something and then had some initial concerns and then sent in a second one.

So the first one comment from Scott Cutler mentions concerns over.

I think he thought it was going to be high density development, like a townhomes and racondos, and was worried about development near this area with I think some of the environmentally sensitive areas, what he mentions, but then with the follow-up comment, if it's just three single family homes, then it would be an acceptable addition to the neighborhood.

So it is.

We somehow can for uh through our neighborhoods.

Yeah.

Oh okay.

So that's what brought me.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, if there are no further comments, I'll go ahead and close public hearing.

Uh back to the c applicant.

Would you like to address any of those comments?

Well, I we did talk about we'll put a note on the plot, the law one's driveway, we'll be as far that way from the intersection as possible.

But other than that, the driveway on law one will be it'll be to the right east to the east.

So that it'll be as far from the intersection, and that's what we can do.

I know that they'll they'll probably want to do something that has a little bit of a turnaround or something on a wider drive, but other than that, that's the best we can do.

So am I reading that correct when it says what frontage, what are they referring to there?

Law frontage that they can't go off 60s, so you can't have a driveway on 60, so it has to go okay to Utah Highlands.

That's that's that's good requirement.

So lot one will be on that east side.

Tony, Tony, you gotta get to the mic.

To Utah Highlands.

Okay.

Again, you know, and and I'm so sorry, I'm I'm being a little lax here, but typically um once public comments closed.

Um but I I hope that you'll engage with staff and also with the applicant if you have more questions.

Back to the commission.

Do you guys have any questions for the applicant or staff?

Negative ready to put forward a motion.

Okay, I'll accept one.

All right.

Supreme forward motion for item 3.2, public hearing and consideration of John Hadfield's request for preliminary subdivision approval of the overview three lot subdivision located at 600 east, Utah Highlands Drive, uh, with the motion being that it is approved, with the findings being that it does meet the requirements of Lehigh City Development Code in regards to subdivision approvals, um, as well as please include all DRC comments, which I believe there's just one.

I'll second that motion.

Okay, a motion and a second.

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed.

Okay, that motion passes.

Thank you so much.

Moving on to 3.3.

Yeah.

Sorry.

That's gonna work better.

Yeah, no problem.

Yeah.

Do you mind?

Sorry.

Okay.

Okay.

Um item 3.3 is public hearing and recommendation of gardener companies uh request for review of the sky area plan amendment.

Creating some design changes to the general non-residential design requirements in the mixed-use areas.

Um there's probably a lot of things I could pull up, but um, so with this amendment, it adds two design except exceptions, sorry.

Um the first is for drive aisles.

You typically um the in the area plan, we would allow drive-throughs adjacent to or the sorry, the exception would allow drive-throughs adjacent to Center Street, Traverse Terrace, 500 West, and Timpanogas Highway.

Drive-throughs are permitted use in the sky area plan already.

Um, but kind of similar to our design standards where we require it to come to to planning commission as uh an exception.

Um that's what is currently in the area plan.

But they're requesting, I think, based on some of the tenants they have coming in to remove that from the area plan, uh, which would limit the number of site plans that come to planning commission requesting that exception that you typically do grant for for drive-throughs.

So that's the first one.

And and part of the justification for that, and I'll let them talk about this a little bit more, is the slopes in the area are pretty steep, and I I know they've ran into some issues with that.

Um the second exception is for the glass location on the buildings to not provide 20% glass on the facade facing the public street.

Instead, they would like it to be on the front or the side elevation if it fronts the private street.

So for this exception, it's more flexibility on the placement.

They still want to keep the 20%, it's just shifting it around based on, and again, it's due to the slopes.

It's not trying to take it down to 10%, it's still 20%, but it's just changing which side it's on.

So uh with that, I'll turn it over to the planning commission for any questions.

Any questions?

For staff.

I have a question.

I wondered when I was reading this where we came up with the 20% glass.

Yeah.

Is that that and I think they took were using when they did the sky area plan using our city design standards.

It's actually something we're looking at now, anyways.

You know, where those percentages came from.

And you know, obviously, you want a certain percentage of glass for the street views and for the aesthetics of the building, but um they took the number from our current code.

I just feel like we've seen we've seen a lot of like.

And depending on the yeah, depending on the district, like if you're in the historic downtown, it's you know, like 40 or 50 percent glass.

But in our other areas, it's just a minimum of 20.

So thank you.

Any other questions?

Okay, go ahead.

Applicant.

Hey, how are you guys?

I'm Mark Murdoch with the Gardner Company, 201 South Main Street, and I have Dave Denison and Chase with me here, who probably know it better than I do.

But uh thanks for having us here tonight.

I was thinking on the way down here.

I've been doing this for 20 years, and it's gonna be kind of weird to go to a new building.

So I know I haven't seen you guys as much, but we've been coming here for a long time.

We sure appreciate it.

Staff's been as always amazing.

So the only thing I wanted to point out was kind of two or three quick things.

I think Jacob, that's is that the park one?

So the real concept here.

There's one more.

If you can see if I get to the right, it's kind of towards the end, but I can also just talk through it if you don't see it.

And I might have taken it out.

I've got all these exhibits.

That's okay.

Actually, click on a couple of those renderings because that'll show the grade why we're kind of doing this.

So, like like Jacob say, we are not trying to get away from the glass.

A lot of our building will most likely have more than 20%.

We just went off the code when we wrote the sky area plan with DR Horton.

Um, but uh what I was gonna say is that we are trying to push all the traffic to the linear park.

If you go to an overall site plan, Jacob, that'd be awesome.

So if you can see, I know it's yeah, see that green space right there.

We preserved that the whole way, and we have a big fitness user that's coming in, and then we have a big retailer who's coming in.

If you go up there, the all the site works going, it's going crazy.

But we're actually really trying to drive traffic off of center street, pedestrian traffic, sorry, pedestrian traffic off of center street.

So that's that's kind of one of the other main reasons why we're putting the drive-throughs along Center Street, is to as you get closer to the park, make it more walkable.

And then as you come down the park, I don't know if you can see there's like a trail to go through that detention basin.

And we met with public works and park department.

Is it park department?

And we kind of coordinated with them.

So the only other thing that I would probably add is that um, yeah, I already said it, that the glazing, the it's you guys know the glazing and then the grades.

Is there one that shows the grades pretty good, Jacob, that you could point at?

If you if you look at those, I mean you can see we're not we're trying to we're really trying to make these look really sharp.

These are we've had an immense amount of interest, and it's been awesome.

Uh that that's actually a good one right there.

If you go if you see, all I'm trying to point out is like do you see that grade coming up?

You're you're not gonna see the back of the house as much.

And so we're like, hey, let's put the let's just put the glass on the entrance, is all we're saying.

So I'll we'll be standing by for any additional comments.

Okay, does the planning commission have any questions for the applicant?

I had a question about the the green space.

Um is that by coming over this highway?

So say that one more time.

Can you can you tell us a little more about your plan for that green space?

Yeah, so the idea the the it's really kind of cool.

So not to give you too much detail, but we engaged um like uh there it's their own acclimate ac accolade, but they're the wor the state, the U.S.'s best placemaking architect.

And so we really got very wonky on this, but we really wanted this trail to come through, and the trail is going to have this meandering path and a lot of connectivity, and that's a hundred feet wide.

I'm trying to remember, maybe nine hundred feet wide, dedicated to the city, so it always stays open, and then there'll be pickleball courts, more or less right next to it, and then bike access to the trails, so you can go all the way up.

I'm sure you guys have driven through the DR Horton project.

There'll be a trailhead at the top.

I don't know the name of it, but that's the plan is so you could enter that trailhead here and go all the way up.

Inverness is the overall.

Yeah.

In our dream world in that bottom building, we would get a bike tenant so that you could like get your bike fixed and like ride up and down the park and all that be kind of fun.

But did I answer your question?

Yeah.

Yeah, thanks so much.

Thank you.

I'm sorry, I lied that I do have a question.

Just make sure I'm understanding.

Because there's such a steep grade going up, you want to shift the glass that would be facing that street to the other side where's the entrance.

Correct.

Because the glass isn't gonna do any good looking at a retaining wall.

It's exactly right.

Same thing with the drive-throughs.

The drive-throughs are gonna be in between the building and then that steep grade.

It's exactly what it is.

It makes sense to me.

Yeah, thank you.

Sorry, I will stay here until you let me.

Is there any other questions?

You're dismissed.

Thank you very much.

Okay.

Well, this is a public hearing item.

So I'll go ahead and open up public hearing.

If there's anyone here from the public who would like to make a comment, um, please do so now.

Okay, any online comments?

Not on this one.

Okay, I'll go ahead and close public hearing.

Um and any other questions or a motion.

I'll put forward a motion.

Uh item 3.3 would like to recommend approval for public hearing and recommendation of Gardener Companies request for review of the sky area plan amendment.

Creating some design changes to the general non-residential design requirements in the mixed use areas.

The findings being that the proposed area plan amendment allows flexibility with the design requirements and will preserve the intent of the design requirements.

The proposed area plan amendment will provide a quality community in Lehigh City.

And please be sure to include the DRC comments.

Okay, a motion.

Is there a second?

I'll second that.

Okay, motion and a second.

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed.

Okay, motion passes.

Thank you very much, Ruth.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Item 3.4.

Wait one second.

I I need to try and get our applicant.

He's online, but he's not currently in the call because we're moving at such a great fast clip right now.

Um I should be chair every time.

Yeah.

Should have three people every time, and then should always be the chair.

Oh, Greg's not listening.

We need to maybe we just even set up a separate one and you can do the slides with the.

Let's see.

Maybe we should ask some more.

Calling them in.

No, these are pretty straightforward.

They are very straightforward.

We'll see if Sam Taylor, he's the consultant with landmark design, and he's got a presentation prepared.

Oh, it looks like Sam, are you in?

Can you hear us?

I'm in.

Cool.

Okay.

Um I'll just do my quick presentation and then I'll turn it over to Sam.

Let's see.

Um, I should probably also preface this item with um the idea.

Our our request would be to table this for additional time.

I'm sure you saw it in the DRC comments and the staff report.

Um the engineering department would like a little bit more time to review this, but we still wanted to hold the public hearing and and give you a chance to see the plan in a little bit more detail.

And then again on the 13th, we would probably do a little bit more that night.

So anyways, just keep that in mind right now.

Um so for item 3.4 is public hearing and recommendation of the downtown revitalization plan and state street station area plan, including parts of Main Street and State Street.

Um this plan is a guiding document, not a regulatory one.

And it considers the land use, street patterns, active transportation in both the main street and state street corridors.

Um it kind of establishes an overall vision for for downtown Lehigh.

You know, and when we think about downtown Lehigh, it is both of those areas.

Um it's about 160 pages.

So I probably won't go into much more detail and I'll let Sam do that.

But is there any questions for from the planning commission based on that brief summary?

Well, and we did see this at the work session.

What was it last month?

Um so I think we're familiar, but um, yeah, let's let the application the consultant give the presentation.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Sounds good.

Let's take a moment.

Um, perfect.

Okay.

Okay, is that coming through for everybody?

Yep, that looks good.

Okay, perfect.

Um good evening, everyone, and it's good to be with you again.

And I uh appreciate you accommodating me remotely this evening.

Um I'll do a quick run through.

Um, as one of the commissioners mentioned, uh this has been presented at the joint work session.

Um so I'll do a quick overview.

Some of that material will feel familiar, but uh we've got it in here for the benefit of uh attendees in the room.

Um and then uh we'll get into a little bit on what steps have uh occurred since that work session about a month ago uh on this plan.

So as a quick overview, this plans horizon is intentionally visionary.

So it's looking out 20 plus years for a future downtown and stationary located on State Street.

And some of those elements may take a significant amount of time.

And that's that's both expected and desired.

And so the implementation on this is about taking those incremental steps and pivoting and adjusting as you go.

So the hope is that this is a living document and serves as a guide for the evolution of downtown as it as it moves forward.

The concepts in the plan are intended to be illustrative.

So there's still precise details that'll need to be worked out when they get to implementation.

So we talk about uh cross sections with lane widths or how many units are in a space or whatever.

Um those are those are details that while there might be some things represented in the plan, it's not intended to be a final unit, but just beneficial for representing what the concept could look like.

Um there's six chapters within the plan, uh, an introduction, a uh overall downtown uh chapter, and then specific chapters related to main street and station area, uh a fifth chapter that looks at transportation issues generally across the downtown area, and then finally an action plan uh which contains all the implementation measures and goals and tries to assign a uh some prioritization and timelines to them.

The plan's built on uh eight guiding principles, and these were derived from uh our public engagement, which we did with the public uh over the course of previous uh last year.

Um these are centered around uh preserving the historic character, establishing a unique and thriving destination, developing the station areas, a vibrant neighborhood, enhance the open space network, provide context-sensitive housing options, enhance urban design and development quality, improve bike walkability and bike ability, and improve regional and local access.

So these uh serve as sort of the the pillars for uh what a lot of the plan is built around.

Uh this is the project area.

So looking at uh what we're considering the general downtown area of Lehigh, uh which is Main Street between the freeway and uh Pifth West, and uh also up to State Street, and then this station area plan requirements require us to look at uh up to a half mile radius from that proposed station for state requirements.

So that kind of takes into account a lot of the residential areas, which we're planning on preserving in their current state for the most part.

Okay, um I I'll I'll note back here on this map.

There's different districts highlighted here.

So we have the downtown core as number one, uh centered at center in Maine, uh, number two that being the station district, uh, number three, the mills district, which is uh kind of down towards the freeway and the Macy's Rural Mills is where it gets its name.

Uh we have uh and then we have smaller components to the plan in a few small recommendations for the rodeo district and transition areas.

Um but really the big recommendations of the plan center around uh these three districts, uh, downtown mills and station and some of the linkages between them.

Um looking at the big ideas about the downtown core, um development activity in the core has its limitations.

So uh while there's some been some interest, uh the size of the lots and the existing infrastructure is very challenging.

So one of the biggest benefits that this area would benefit from is uh improvements with public space, um, and so to activate and draw people downtown.

So looking at a potentially more walkable main street uh frontage and also other public open spaces and activity programming within the core to help generate that uh that activity.

Um for future development to occur to get to the kind of conditions that um we're hoping for within that that area, which is you know, the similarly uh similar look and feel to the historic area we already have there on Maine.

Um property owners are gonna need some increased flexibility around issues such as parking and utilities in order to make things work.

And so that's gonna require some minor updates to uh land use regulation and design guidelines as well as just a general coordination cooperation uh with the city to make things work for folks.

Um and also uh another key recommendation here is to make a conscious effort to create and expand um some economic development opportunities here in this area through uh marketing, programming, uh facade improvement grants, and so forth.

So one of the biggest ideas for the core is a uh reconceptualization of uh what the main street cross section could look like and trying to create a more robust pedestrian zone uh that is comfortable uh for visitors so they as they're walking along, they have uh a good space to frequent the shops and hang out and uh have the comforts of shade and furnishings and all that um within the uh the main stream space.

Um this I think there is a little bit of misleading in this image that kind of makes it look like it's just two lanes the whole way down.

Realistically, there's gonna be turn lanes and there's gonna be loading areas and stuff, but the the idea here is to really push most of the parking off of Maine onto side streets and internal lots and open up some of that space for the pedestrian.

That was uh idea that came out of our public workshops that we held and seemed to gain some good traction and interest.

Um the Mills district, uh the big idea there is uh that this could be an area that has a greater physical change within uh the main street area.

So um, and the that new investment could create lever uh the leverage need to support projects in other districts.

So the primary uh recommendation there is to allow for a mixed use uh commercial and residential uh within that space and uh to try and create a more walkable uh district uh that's near downtown, but not in downtown.

So we're kind of pushing it out by the freeway and taking up a bunch of surface parking to kind of create something new.

Um Sam, are you are you into having questions during this, or do you want us to wait until the end?

Um I I'm fine to answer questions if you like.

That's fine.

This is this is where I recognize I'm making you drink from a fire hose, so that's fine.

No, I'm I'm I'm actually on the revitalization committee.

So I've I've heard your presentations over the course of the last year.

Um and I appreciate every I every time I I see something new and and um appreciate so much all the planning that's gone into this because it's there's going to be change no matter what, and I I like that we're we're talking about what we want to see.

Um one of the things that you've talked about is the mills district connecting with downtown, and we're talking about the Lehigh Roller Mill area connecting with downtown area, is that right?

Yeah, yeah.

So if I go back here to this district's map, you can see the blue area here.

So it's that is that pink in between.

Yeah.

So the so what we're calling the core is really just those four blocks of Maine, right?

Um two west of center street, two east of center street.

And then this mills district is really from fifth east to the freeway, right?

And the space in between is kind of this weird place.

It's it's because of all the constraints it's got, it's probably not gonna change much.

Um, these other end of that have you thought about connecting those two areas.

So we do have we do have a recommendation in the plan um for uh a transitional cross section of Main Street and how we might be able to increase um pedestrian and active transportation um comfort and and usability in that zone.

But in terms of land use, uh the plan generally recommends to allow those areas to remain in perpetuity until way down in the future they might want to turn over.

So thank you.

Sorry to interrupt you.

No, you're fine.

That's a great question.

Thank you.

Um to the Mills district.

Um updating design guidelines, uh, try and create some more flexibility for uh market conditions, design and development.

And um the suggested changes here aren't aren't uh that the city, you know, honing up a ton of money and and create a um you know, be an active player in the market, but rather that it's altering the regulatory environment, um, allowing existing uses to remain, but then allowing those new uses to enter into be introduced when they're ready.

So and then the station area, uh the big ideas here that I think are important to consider, um there uh is a lot of difficulty infrastructurally uh in making this area between state street and the freeway uh meaningful development space.

Um first the transit station needs to be figured out that needs to be coordinated with UDOT and UTA.

They need to make up their minds on uh specifically what mode of transit they plan to bring to that station.

There's still some um discussion between both BRT and light rail.

Um, and one plan says one thing and another says another.

So um the street connectivity needs to be expanded in there, everything in in that area is dead end streets.

Um so we have some recommendations for uh increasing that linking those streets together and increasing that connectivity.

There's a freight railroad turnaround that needs to be moved uh within the area, and uh the utilities might need further some expansion as well.

So once all of those can be surmounted, um the idea for the station is to be a fairly compact scale of uh a mix of commercial and residential uses within that space um that are supporting the station, uh getting people living near the station, and uh but really kind of a I think more of a neighborhood scale than what we might see at some of the front runner stations that are much bigger.

Um, and also improving the state street environment uh to kind of bridge the gap, bridge the divide for the pedestrian or or cyclist that's trying to get to that station from the neighborhoods to the south.

Um so here's uh just a massing form massing diagram illustrating how those uses sort of stack up.

The station is envisioned to be more or less right near the uh historic depot building.

Um and uh the existing historic buildings at front state street would remain, um the transit line would come in along the tracks, um, and the vision for that is that for it to be a shared space between both the transit use and uh trail use and even to some degree roadway.

Um and then uh you've got different segments here demonstrating how different housing types and products and uh other business type buildings would kind of come in and fit in this space um conceptually.

So um and then as I mentioned, improving the state street experience, so uh creating streetscape improvements, improving the crossings um and making state street a little bit more habitable for uh people within this one or two block space that is adjacent to the station, um, and then people can speed right back up as they leave it.

So um so Sam, just real quick on State Street.

If I'm remembering from the work session, there was it seemed like everything kind of hinged on Union Pacific being willing to do something.

Um is that still the case?

That is totally still the case.

Okay, and both Union Pacific and UTA.

So um when UTA is ready to work out the station, um that that'll be the one of the first steps, but then Union Pacific's gotta move that railroad turnaround to get access into some of these sites because if we look at this in in reality, the the whole southern half of this um really isn't very accessible um today.

Um at least not for the kind of traffic we would anticipate for a station.

So if I can ask a follow-up question on that.

What is plan B if Union Pacific doesn't want to play ball?

What would you come there?

Um I think that it's gonna be really challenging to get um really much development off the ground at all.

Um because the the linchpin in this is getting emergency access in here.

Um and so if UPRR is not gonna move that turnaround, uh that's gonna create some issues for the transit coming through, firstly.

And secondly, the access is then gonna for most development is primarily going to be limited to the north off of First East.

So it's really going to constrain the ability to get much in here.

Okay, thank you.

Yep.

There are other parts of you know this chapter that get at state requirements.

So looking at the access strategy, how people are going to get to the station, parking strategy, green spaces, what sort of green spaces and trails will be within the station area and the economic impact of what this could have on the city.

The transportation chapter recommends a number of improvements to street corridors across this greater area.

And so this is a little bit complicated map until you start breaking down the individual pieces.

But essentially what you're looking at here is a series of bike facilities, so bike improvements of uh on street bike trails and bike lanes, um, and then uh transit circulator route that would um shuttle people from the downtown area to the station area, improved crossings at a lot of the major intersections, and then some other features such as gateway improvements, um proposed areas where parking structures might be needed down the road and uh also improvements to signals at the intersections as well.

So all that's contained within there.

There's a few more uh cross sections of key corridors that we um have identified as being critical to active transportation.

So this is just one example on Third North introducing uh uh greenway in the form of a multi-use path that's off to the side of the road, and uh improving landscaping and trees and so forth on that that street.

Um so there's there's a whole number of recommended projects in this transportation chapter that I won't cover tonight, but uh we've hopefully had a chance to look at all those.

And then the implementation chapter concludes the whole plan by taking all the measures from the previous chapters and putting them into a matrix where they've been scored based on their cost, their potential impact, their um general public support, and uh then coming out with a priority level and a timeline for when things might uh occur or when things might be best to focus on.

Um so that's a whirlwind overview of uh the plan.

And uh we presented the draft of this to the joint work session a month ago.

Um had some great discussion uh around the some of the ideas, some of the concerns that the council, the planning commission had, um and we've made a few uh updates to the plan since.

Um so since that last meeting, uh one of the things that came up was a big concern was the notion of the 100 East commercial overlay, um, which would bring commercial uses to 100 East in the residential neighborhood.

We've removed all references from that um based on the uh request of the group, so that's gone.

Um though I think there's still one lingering one that we need to mix.

Um we updated uh we were missing a mass and graphic um for the Mills district that's now been included on page 69.

Um we acknowledged the possibility for LR for light rail in the station area, which was previously missing because UTA is kind of taking a potentially taking a different route from their original BRT plans.

Um we've added language encouraging home ownership as a key factor to be considered in new housing projects from a council member Newall's comment and added uh some language encouraging coordination analysis and monitoring of transportation improvements um from Commissioner Everett.

And then finally, one of the things that came out uh there's been some concern over some of the you know where how are we gonna fit some of the the housing uh projects into these areas, um especially when they have density caps.

So the staff identified that there are places elsewhere in the city that um the caps could the the allotments could be relocated to some of these areas where they're not needed in other spaces.

Um so rather than eliminating caps, which we had originally recommended, um that we now recommend a reallocation of them.

So uh also since we last met, we have put this draft out to the public for review.

Um as of yesterday, we had received 22 responses um to our online questionnaire.

And um 18 of those residents, uh 18 of those respondents were residents, um, and half of them live downtown.

Um we asked if just a few short questions uh to the group uh after they were able to review the plan.

Um and you can see all the categories that we asked how they felt uh how well they felt their plan addressed these things.

So um in general, they uh hit most of them positively.

There was uh most people felt like the plan did all these things well.

Um there was some concern over traffic and parking and also uh context context sensitive housing.

And that's also reflected in the the other comments that we received.

So I'll get into that a little bit more.

Uh we asked which areas of the plan are you most excited about or agree with?

Um people overwhelmingly leaned in more towards the parks, plazas, trail connections, all the you know, the fun um uh tr active transportation and and parks and the the community spaces, the public spaces.

Um and I think people are generally supportive of improvements within the downtown core.

Um things that they're a little more concerned with, uh, you know the the idea of uh some changes, some some significant changes um that could occur within the the mills gateway area and the uh the future station area and some of the traffic and parking implications that could come with those.

So um and also the um this new street layout one, there's concerns over the the main street, um the proposed main street uh changes in terms of the cross section and and the changes to what Main Street um streetscape could look like.

Hey, hey Sam, Sam.

How much longer uh is the public uh input portion of your plan is that finished or it's it's still open ongoing.

And I think I yeah, it's still open.

So how are we advertising that it's even out there for people to look at?

Yeah.

I would like to have Jacob answer that.

Um there was at least one Facebook post.

I know that's not the only place we actually did go out to some of the businesses and handed out flyers.

I know that's happened.

I mean, obviously engaged Lehigh was posted on there.

It's hard to get everyone.

And I know that was partially why we sent an email to the planning commission and city council members about a week or two ago.

Because yeah, the more hands on deck to help distribute this, the better I would say at this point.

We did email the business okay.

Yeah, we did email the business owners as well.

Are they getting this 100 whatever page we got a link?

There's no like summary or anything shorter that they could maybe it wouldn't be so daunting to Yeah, because I know yeah, they get the document and they get the six question survey, but that's a good question, probably for Sam, if there's some way to do a condensed version.

Doesn't seem like enough to no, it's it's it's certainly not um statistical statistically valid enough to make uh a lot of inference from.

You're absolutely right about that.

So um I think if you know more input is desired on this draft, um then we probably need to uh you know go back to the drawing board and see what else we can do to drum up some more of that that input.

Um you know, that said, we did do a fair amount of um quite a bit of public engagement in the early process that this plan is built on the responses from.

So it it should, I think you know, and so hopefully the plan's reflecting what we've heard from larger numbers of input in the past.

Um so yeah, I wouldn't I certainly would not weigh all decisions on this draft based on just this outreach alone, but I think you gotta look at all the all the public engagement that's been done to date.

So thank you.

Sorry.

Yeah.

No, that's good.

Um the individual comments revealed some you know specific concerns and um and I provided the data report to staff and I'm sure they can share it with you if you would want to look through it.

Um basically the the primary concerns that came out of people's individual comments they left.

Um a few just really don't want to see the transit station.

Um fewer concerned with the main street uh reconfiguration.

So uh particularly concern over the loss of a turn lane, which I think is as I mentioned earlier, the graphics are a little bit misleading because it's hard to fully communicate, you know, a cross section at every single point along the main street and how those different but there's certainly gonna be turn lanes.

Um concern over the addition of housing units and the traffic those might generate.

Um and some people were not uh too keen on the uh additions of uh active transportation improvements.

Um each of these, when I say a few, it we're we're talking, you know, I could probably count on one hand the people that fall into each of these comments, right?

So um with the group sample we have.

Uh and then the others that's revealed support, uh people these people were very much in favor of the active transportation improvements.

They're very excited about bringing new establishments to downtown, and they also supported the transit improvements both with the station and the the transit circulator that would get people there.

So those are just sort of anecdotal, I guess, if you will, um some things to consider.

Um I'm there I think it's uh up to you to kind of weigh do you if you feel you have enough the information that you want to recommend a change, but um that's that can be part of the discussion.

Um there are some remaining uh there is some remaining feedback from DRC.

As Jacob mentioned, uh engineering is still spending time with this document.

We have a few comments that they've already given us that um some of which are noted in the staff report um that we need to pick up.

They're I think they're primarily all minor typos that we just need to take care of um and and clarify some things.

Um then you know, if there's any to address any of this public feedback with adjustments, we can do that.

Um but you know, once we get past those two markers, I think this plan will hopefully be ready for uh your consideration.

So excuse me.

Thank you, Sam.

Um does staff have anything that they want to add?

I don't think so.

Yeah, no, I think the nice thing is if with the plan to table this.

Um this has been kind of a challenge all along.

I think Sam would agree.

I mean, with open houses that we've held with reaching out to the public, it's been a little bit hard to get a lot of interest and people giving us opinions and and feedback on this plan.

I mean, there's always gonna be a small group of people that are really passionate about it.

But it I mean, with the open houses we held where we were able to reach out, there was usually 50 people or less.

So I think the nice thing is though with tabling this, it gives us a little bit more time, a couple weeks to try and get as many people as we can to the site to look at the survey, to you know, even if you peruse through the first I don't know, 15 or 20 pages, you will get a pretty good grasp of what's going on, I'd say, even if you don't make it through all 120.

Yeah.

And I'd also add that you know, we did do a statistically valid survey in the early stage of this project.

Um so if you're looking for that sort of community-wide representation, I think there's a lot of data points there that um fed into this and I think have a lot of relevance.

So I think that that survey had I think over 700 respondents, if I remember right.

So Sam and Jacob and everyone else that's been involved with this.

Like thank you for all the work that's gone into this.

I I don't think it's a question though that we do need more responses.

I just don't think 22 responses at this point is gonna cut out, we need more feedback before we actually put forward a formal proposal.

Yep, that's fair.

Great.

Well, I'm gonna go ahead and open up the public hearing.

Um if anyone would like to come up and um give your thoughts or feedback on this item, you are welcome to do so now.

Okay, and any online comments.

Not on on this item.

And yeah, Kim was just mentioning to me we would like to keep the public hearing open through this meeting and then to the next meeting as well.

Okay as part of the motion.

So and I don't think I've we've ever done that.

So when you keep a public hearing open in I guess you just don't close it.

Yeah, you just not want me to not make close it or real.

Okay.

Yeah, I'm a little bit more comfortable with that option.

Is that okay with you guys?

Okay.

We'll just plan on a new yeah, noticing a new meeting with a new public hearing, I think would be good.

Okay.

Um last chance.

Anybody?

Okay.

Well I'll go ahead and close it um with the note that there will be another meeting with an additional public hearing in a few weeks.

November 13th.

So uh back to the commission.

Are there any questions?

So if not, I will take a motion.

I just have a comment before the motion, but uh this is long range, and I I think maybe that might be the scariest thing for people to see.

Oh, there's gonna be all this change on on Main Street and on State Street.

But this is we're talking 20 years, if not more.

Um, and it's gonna be gradual, which it has been gradual for the for the last 20 plus years.

So it sounds like maybe I need to do a better job of getting getting the word out and having people look at it.

Um if if that's one of the ways that you're getting the word out.

Yeah.

Great.

Feel free to send the links that we sent.

That's still active, so yeah, if you have those emails, or we can and yeah, we'll maybe rethink and strategize next week on how can we make you know we'll we'll probably get with our communications person, push another invitation out on Facebook and Twitter, whatever, just use all of our social media outlets and maybe yeah, I don't know, it's probably too late to get in like the mayor's message.

Yeah, I was gonna say what about the utility bills.

Um is there any way to notify people through the way that we like our you know the yellow thing that we're gonna do?

Yeah, the mayor's ledger.

Yeah, that was difficult because it has such a long lead time.

I think it's and I don't know, Mel, if you know, is it like typically goes the 10th of the month before it has to be in, and then it goes in two waves.

So the first hit might hit it, but the second wave wouldn't hit the residents in time.

Okay.

But yeah, we'll look into some options of of things we could do.

Well, and if the planning commission just has a recommending body to the city council, if we only heard that first wave of comments, but by the time it got to council, they might have had the opportunity to get the second wave in.

Um because you know, we just recommend, so they might have the opportunity to get more feedback.

Yeah, yeah, maybe we can look at the dates, how how quick we'd need something in to even hit that first wave, and then yeah.

Are we trying to hit a deadline with this?

Not necessarily.

I know landmarks have been awesome, by the way, Sam and his team have we we've really appreciated him and his patience with us and these plans sometimes you know we we had hoped to have this adopted by late summer or fall, and it's just it's yeah, just sometimes you hit.

Yeah, it's a lot of work to put this together.

But um I know there, you know, ba we've we got money from Mag to pro perform the planning effort here, and I think he's basically he's done.

So it's really on his goodwill.

And so we we'd like to finish it, but there isn't there's not a fixed deadline.

So if it had to go in to the new year, if that's what everybody feels like is best to get more input, we could do that.

So and yeah, we might just have to pick up more of the planning slack on the staff's end since Sam's probably gonna be moving on to other projects.

So anyways.

Thank you.

Yeah, that's understandable.

Any other comments, concerns, questions?

Okay, I'll entertain a motion.

Are we tabling?

Okay.

I can't tell you what to do.

They told you that's right.

Just wanted to make sure we're all because we have to be on the same page.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Um I'll make a motion for item 3.4 public hearing and recommendation of the downtown revitalization plan and state street station area plan, including parts of Main Street and State Street.

I move that we table this item until engineering has had a chance to study it a little bit more and to get more public feedback.

Seconded.

Okay, motion and a second.

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed.

Okay, that motion passes.

Moving on to um item four, city business.

Oh okay.

We do have one item and it's related to this plan.

Um of November, your next meeting, uh, if we were to s stick to our normal schedule, you'd have the work session in November.

Uh I believe it's like the fourth.

Um excuse me, the sixth.

Uh if you wanted, we could continue.

Like if you feel like and maybe you know, we had some commissioners absent, we could take that meeting and just use it to continue to visit some of this um downtown revitalization plan.

If you feel like you've understood it and you don't really need that time, we can just not hold the November meeting.

So we're good either way.

We just thought we'd see how tonight went and let you decide if you feel like that would be valuable.

We can yeah, have the plan.

Are you suggesting not doing the work session but a regular meeting on the sixth?

Just no work session.

If if you don't if you feel like you've already been well briefed and you know the plan, we just won't hold a work session.

We don't have any other unless you have some kind of pressing issues.

Um I'm okay if we skip it.

Um we've had a one a work session with council, and then we've had this, and I think we'll go.

See it again.

We'll get to see it again with public comment.

I think so that means there's only one meeting in the Yes, yeah, because the second one's on Thanksgiving.

You'll be eating turkey.

My only thought is if the 13th is jam-packed with like eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve items.

I would prefer to have two regular sessions, one on the sixth and the thirteenth.

Just so that you know we're not here super.

What's on the thirteenth right now?

Let's see what's on there.

There might be like I think there's four or maybe four or five items right now.

Yeah, that's and a few of them are development agreements, which are kind of weird items for the planning commission that because it's more of a city council thing anyways.

Yeah, you know, yeah.

I don't think there's anything big huge at this point on the 13th, but we can look really quick.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I um it's always nice to have two short meetings instead of and we've done that before where we've had like one on the 13th and the 20th or the sixth and the 13th.

Yeah.

So what you're saying is it's not your meeting.

So you're on.

Yeah, you know, I'd add a short meeting for Katie and a short one for Brittany, and two short ones for Kim.

Yeah.

Okay, so other than this plan being back on, there's seven other items.

Uh zone change, a related concept plan, which meets it's a very standard subdivision.

Uh we have a development agreement for the let's see.

I think you guys have seen this project before.

It's that piece on State Street by the police station, the old police station, I should say.

Um a conditional use for flaglots, and uh two other development agreements.

Oh, and then we have strata is coming in for their new facility out on West Main Street.

So I don't know.

That's not medium-ish.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

We can keep an eye on it over the next week because this upcoming Wednesday would be the last meeting to add things to it.

So if it made sense to split it into two, it could be the 13th and the 20th, maybe instead of the 6th and the 13th.

Yeah, and ultimately it'll rest with Commissioner Jackson, right?

So, but uh yeah, if it's super long, maybe splitting into two, but if not, I'm open to canceling the work session.

Okay, okay.

You will not plan to be here in two weeks.

Awesome.

Okay.

Okay, well, um, if that concludes city business, uh motion to adjourn.

If there's no other business, I would like to make a motion to adjourn.

Is that how I was supposed to say something?

Second.

Okay, motion and a second.

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Okay, motion passes.

We are adjourned.

So you say that was my first time.

Jacob, are you still on the meeting?

I'm still on the ground.

Okay, well, you just I just I was like, I don't know if I'm hearing the meeting.

So I just took minutes off.