Let's go ahead and get this uh meeting underway.

Um I'd like to welcome everybody to the Lehigh City uh council meeting.

It is November 18th, 2025.

Uh this year is almost gone.

Flew by.

Well, Thanksgiving's late this year, it seems I'd like it better that way.

I don't have to set up for Christmas until after Thanksgiving.

All right.

Uh yeah.

So anyway, as far as council members' attendance here, uh we do have all our council members here with the exception right now, Paul Hancock.

He's going to be joining us uh virtually in a little bit.

Uh not this first, but uh we have a couple of things in regular session and and the end of this session that he wants to participate in, so we'll tie him in at that point.

Uh it is uh 6 p.m.

Uh rather only an hour for pre-council because there's really not a lot on the agenda except for some closed door issues.

Uh we will start out with uh prayer and then uh and I asked Paige if she would do that for us.

Hi, Father in Heaven.

We come before thee this evening as a council and staff and the public to do the work of this city, and as we do so, we ask that thy presence be with us.

We're thankful, Father, for the opportunity to live here for the moisture we've received in this past week and for the safety and protection that we enjoy as Americans as citizens of Lehigh.

This evening we ask thy guidance as we make these decisions that we might act in a manner that might benefit all of our federal fellow citizens and those who work here as well.

We ask thy blessing upon those who have yet to arrive.

They might do so in safety and also upon our first responders and those in our military that they may be watched over and protected.

And now we ask thee, Father, to bring thy spirit to this meeting, and we do so in the name of Jesus Christ.

Amen.

Thank you very much, Paige.

Okay, we have no presentations uh listed unless something came up at the last minute.

I don't think it did, uh Tisha.

So uh agenda questions.

Are there any questions on the agenda tonight?

I imagine there will be some on a couple of the items, but uh probably more appropriate to ask those when when those items come up in the regular session.

Administrative report.

Nothing at all.

Well, nothing outside of the make something up.

We have a lot of time.

Well, we might need it for some of our other items.

Okay.

Uh uh council reports.

Does anybody have anything to report on their assignments?

Okay.

So I guess I can understand that.

Okay.

That is going to take us to uh a closed door session.

Sorry, all those who came at six and was expecting a lot to go on here, but not until seven, I guess.

But uh we do have to uh take a motion uh for uh property uh uh professional uh competence and I believe that's those two items.

Is that correct?

Well oh, yeah.

I'm just saying maybe ask the attorney that I'm aware of.

Okay, anything else?

Okay, would somebody like to make a motion on those two items?

Actually, sorry, include litigation because the the one's kind of a mixed issue.

Okay, okay.

Property litigation, character, professional competence.

Mr.

Mayor, I make a motion that we move into a closed executive session for the uh purpose of purchase exchange or lease of property pending or reasonably imminent litigation or and or the character professional competence or the physical or mental health of an individual or the deployment of security personnel devices or systems.

Okay.

I have a motion to have a second.

And I have a second.

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Okay, we are going to retire to the chambers room behind us.

Um we will be back when we're done.

Not you.

I'm pointing out the date is November 18th, 2025.

Uh as a matter of roll call, our council members are all here.

Chris has stepped out for a moment.

He'll be right here online.

We have uh uh Paul Hancock who is online and he'll be joining us later for another closed door session.

Uh that being said, uh we do have uh Pledge of Allegiance.

I asked Heather if she would lead us in that.

Heather, you want to do that, please?

Please stand.

I have to do that.

And to the Republic for which it stands under indivisible with the remote justice for all thank you, Heather.

Okay, item two on tonight's agenda is uh the time we take in every council meeting uh for citizen input.

We generally limit it to no more than 20 minutes.

This is an opportunity for anybody here who wants to uh bring up an issue with the council, uh with administrative staff, with myself, something see going on in the city that uh we need to be aware of that we're we haven't been aware of.

Uh now's your opportunity to do that.

We do ask you to leave uh limit your comments to about two minutes if you can.

Do we have anybody who's here to speak on in public comment tonight?

Or citizen input, rather.

Okay, hearing none, I will close that item.

We'll bring it up here to the consent agenda.

Item number three is a consent agenda.

We have item 3.1, uh, which is the uh approval ordinance of the Clark Meadows annexation 3.2, it's approval of the uh meeting minutes and 3.3 approval per of the purchase orders.

Council, do you have any questions on the consent agenda?

Okay.

I'll take a motion if somebody would like to make that.

I have a motion by Heather to approve.

Do I have a second?

I'll second.

And a second by Paige.

Any questions on that motion?

Hearing none.

All those in favor say aye.

Any opposed?

Aye.

I'll take that as a non-opposing vote.

What a couple three thousand miles away or however far it is.

Okay.

I wonder if he's wearing a Hawaiian shirt.

Okay.

Uh item four is consideration of resolution 2025-83.

This amending the Lehigh City Water Conservation Plan.

Uh come on up, Greg.

I didn't know who was resent uh presenting, but as soon as you stood up, I knew.

Yep, that's mine.

Uh this is just an amendment to the water conservation plan that uh we're required to do.

It started in 1999.

We've amended every five years.

This is just a amendment to the current plan.

Updating numbers, staff, um, water sources, water rights, etc.

Okay, council, you got any questions for Greg on this.

Hearing none.

Uh I'll I'll take a motion on item number four if somebody wants to make it.

Mr.

Mayor, I make a motion that we approve resolution 2025-83, amending the Lehigh City Water Conservation Plan.

Okay.

I have a motion to approve by Chris.

Do I have a second?

Second.

And a second by Heather.

Any questions on that motion?

This is by resolution.

I'll start with Michelle.

Yes.

Chris.

Yes.

Heather.

Yes.

Uh Paul.

Yes.

Yes.

Okay, there we go.

Thanks, Greg.

Yep.

Next one's mine too.

Oh, okay.

Then I didn't have your name written down on that one either, but it is now.

Okay, number five is consideration resolution 2025 81.

Approving an agreement between Lehigh City and Core Construction for the Jordan Willows lift station upgrade.

Yep.

Uh 20 plus year old sewer lift station.

It pumps around six million gallons a day.

We're just refurbishing pipes, fittings, valves, backflows, pumps, etc.

Okay.

You gotta do a temporary pump to work around.

It's pretty extensive.

Sounds like quite the job.

This could be nasty.

Council, do you have any questions?

Excited about it.

I'm not.

I was glad I don't work for Core Construction.

Okay.

Yeah, I I got to be involved in the in the big one over by TSSD.

The like a building underground when they were rebuilding that.

I'm like, I got to visit that a couple times during construction.

Like, I'm glad I don't do that for a living.

So all right, council.

There's no questions, I'll take a motion on item number five.

Mayor, I move that we approve uh resolution number 2025-81, approving an agreement between Lehigh City and Core Construction for the Jordan Willows lift station upgrade as presented in our packet.

I have a motion to approve by Paige.

Do I have to see I'll second?

And a second by Chris.

Any questions on that motion?

Chris, I'm gonna start the voting with you.

Absolutely, yes.

I don't even know how to respond to that.

Heather.

Yes.

Okay.

Uh Paul.

Yes.

Yes.

And Michelle.

Yes.

Okay.

Chris's neighborhood.

So it's in my card.

Oh, you get helps.

It's almost to my backyard.

Your camera with you.

And your waiters.

Yeah, waiters.

Don't.

I'll go get some.

All right.

Item six is consideration of resolution 2025-79 right ratifying the purchase proper a property as a successful bidder at a foreclosure auction.

Marla.

Um questions.

This is the property up on uh Valleto.

Um it's with regards to a reservoir that's up there.

Uh they have found that the reservoir is leaking.

We're currently trying to address the issue uh through public works.

Um it is leaking onto this vacant property.

We did find out a week and a half ago that it was going up for foreclosure.

And uh as staff we recommended to purchase it because of liability issue.

Uh the ultimate goal is once the um uh the reservoir is uh repaired.

Uh this property will immediately go back up for sale.

Okay.

Anyone in the public have a question on this?

It's kind of a different circumstance, but unnecessary one.

Okay.

I'll take a motion on item number six.

Mr.

Mayor, I make a motion that we approve resolution 2025-79 ratifying the purchase of property as at the successful bid as the successful bidder at a foreclosure auction as presented.

Okay.

I have a motion by Chris.

Do I have a second?

Second.

And a second by Heather.

Any questions on that motion?

Heather, I'll start with you.

Yes.

Paul?

Yes.

Yes.

Michelle?

Yes.

And Chris.

Yes.

Thank you, Mayor and Council.

Item seven is consideration of resolution 2025-82, approving an agreement between Lei City and R B and G engineering.

Incorporated for engineering services for the widening of 2300 West between Pioneer Crossing and Main Street.

Lauren.

Yeah, the Brad's not here.

He told us you were doing this.

No, he did.

Yeah.

I told him he could come.

He says, no, you can do it.

So this is a we have a uh funding that we received for MAG for doing the project from Main Street to Pioneer.

This is the first step to do the design.

They've moved the money forward for the design, so we went out and solicited bidders.

And uh we had two.

Uh we actually picked from a uh U dot list five, and then we sent them out, got two back.

And from that list, we picked RB and G.

We had a committee of what six people, and uh they were selected.

They have been doing some of our other work.

Uh you know, they've done an excellent job.

So I think it's a good group to have.

Okay.

Council, any questions for Lauren?

Ask him a question.

You didn't want to.

Okay, I'll take a motion.

Mr.

Mayor, I move that we approve resolution 2025-82, approving an agreement between Lehigh City and RBNG Engineering Inc.

for engineering services for the widening of 2300 West between Pioneer Crossing and Main Street.

I have a motion to approve the uh the the agreement by Heather.

Do I have a second?

I'll second.

And second by Paige.

Any questions on that motion?

Paul.

Yes.

Paige.

Yes.

Michelle?

Yes.

Chris?

Yes.

And Heather.

Yes.

Okay, that passes.

Number eight is a budget amendment.

Number two for fiscal year 2026.

Uh we are required to have a public hearing as item A.

Item B is consideration of resolution 2025-78 amending the Lehigh City budget for fiscal year 2026.

Uh Jason or Alison, do you want to talk about this first before we take public hearing?

Yeah, I I can talk about it, Mayor.

Okay.

So this is hey.

We get a high five after the meeting.

Allison would like to stand at the podium also as I go through this.

Um this is in response to a request from the council um not too long ago.

Um council asked us to look at funding uh uh code enforcement officer.

So we worked with planning in the police department.

We came up with a job description that we all felt comfortable with.

So this budget amendment reflects that um the balance of that cost from January to July or end of June this fiscal year, remaining of this fiscal year.

And then it would be built into the base budget going forward.

So concerns so this is under police.

Well, it will function under it will function under planning, but it will work with the police department to it comes from the police's budget or in the next year's budget, it would be part of planning or work that out.

Okay.

So there were some safety concerns before.

So I I have some concerns, but they've addressed it.

So this this position will help track and identify code violations and things like that.

They'll serve um notifications, let them know they're out of compliance.

But if we have to go and confront someone who's in violation, we'll just bring them to the bring up.

Okay, I'll take a motion on this item.

For public hearing.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Thank you, Chris.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's that's the explanation.

Or is there anybody from the public that would like to comment on this?

Okay.

Well get a thumbs up.

That's as good.

I guess that's my do you want to come up to the microphone and do that so we give us your name and say the thumbs up.

I'm re I'm Rachel Freeman.

Uh I just uh yeah, support that support this.

I think it's great.

Great thing, and yeah, that's what my thumbs up meant.

Thanks.

Okay, I'll take uh I'll close the public hearing and uh we will take a motion on item 8B.

I'll make a motion.

Um I move that we um approve resolution 2025-78, amending the Lehigh City budget for fiscal year 2026.

I have a motion to approve by Michelle.

Do I have a second?

Second.

Second by Heather.

Any questions on that motion?

Paige, I think we're starting with you.

Yes.

Uh Michelle?

Yes.

Chris?

Yes.

Heather?

Yes.

And Paul.

Yes.

Paul's on vacation in Hawaii, by the way.

I just have this urge to ask him what he's wearing right now, but that might be kind of creepy, so maybe I won't do that.

So he's on vacation, but it's still tuned in.

Good good man.

I I hope it's uh some kind of Hawaiian polo or something there.

So item nine is consideration of ordinance 65 2025 approving the Smith zone change on 0.40 acres located at 235 West State Street.

Uh changing the zone from an R2 medium density residential to neighborhood commercial.

Eric Smith is the applicant.

Is he here?

Do we have anybody here to present this item?

Okay, Kim.

This is a zone change.

Yes, yeah, and it does conform to our general plan.

It was reviewed by the planning commission in October, and they unanimously recommended approval.

I'm not sure what the proposed use would be for this.

It's an existing home.

It's right next to a little car dealership right there on State Street, right across from almost right across from Sabadi, the Thai restaurant.

Um yeah, it is currently zoned R2.

A lot of those older homes on State Street have just been in those residential zones for years and years.

You want to change it to the neighborhood commercial to match what our general plan shows?

And the general plan is moving that direction.

So council, do you have any qu uh problems moving on this tonight?

Okay, I'll take a motion on item.

Well, let me see.

Is there any any public comment on this?

Okay, hearing none, I'll bring it back up here.

Council, I'll take a motion on item number nine.

Mr.

Mayor, make a motion that we approve ordinance 65-2025.

Um approval of the Smith zone change on 0.4 acres located at 235 West State Street, changing the zoning from R2 medium density residential to neighborhood commercial, and include the uh planning and zoning uh comments and uh DRC comments.

Okay, I have a motion to approve by Chris.

Do I have a second?

Second.

Second by Michelle.

Any questions on that motion?

We're starting again with Michelle.

Yes, Chris, yes, Heather?

Yes, Paul.

Yes.

Yeah.

Okay.

Item 10 is consideration of ordinance 66 2025, this approving the sky area plan amendment, uh, creating some design changes to the general non-residential design requirements in the mixed use area.

Gardner company.

Mark, is that you?

You're on.

I can pull it up.

If you don't mind, yeah.

Hey, everybody.

Mark with the Gardner Company, good to be with you tonight.

Uh Kim's gonna pull the plan right now, but basically what we're doing is instead of coming through and do multiple conditional uses, we're just getting it approved at one time for drive-throughs.

We have designed the site in such that right along Main Street or Center Street, I apologize.

It will be there will be some drive-throughs, but as you go further away from the site, it'll be more pedestrian and you'll be able to walk.

Uh we'd have a big linear park that goes right through it.

Oh, yeah.

Thanks, Kim.

I appreciate it.

Uh yeah.

This is this is pretty good right here.

Um let me know if you can see this.

Wait, it's right in front of you.

Sweet.

Are you able to see it?

That's not a business.

Oh, okay.

You guys can see a nice purple screen, the same thing you're looking at.

Oh, so uh there you go.

Sweet.

Yeah.

So this the street in the foreground represents center street, and to the right is some of the retail tenants that we're gonna be putting in there.

Uh there's kind of two parts of this amendment.

Part one is what I was talking about, and we're trying to uh we're trying to bring all the pedestrians to this kind of linear park where they can walk.

And then the other part that we're doing is we are not trying to minimize glass.

In fact, we're adding more glass, we're just putting the glass in the front entrances.

So that's another part of the amendment.

So the glass in this case would be kind of on the other side of the of the building, right there.

So that's where the glass would be.

So those are the two elements.

Um, this is kind of the linear park that I was referring to over here.

So the concept is that this is where you'll be walking, this is where the trail connects.

We worked with the trail, um, can't remember the gentleman's name, but we worked with public works or the trail department, and there'll be kind of a trail that goes through here.

But it's pretty basic.

That's what we're doing, and I'd happy to field any questions.

Questions for the applicant.

You're asking for an exemption to the dry aisle too.

Did you mention that?

Yeah, that that's what I that was kind of the main reason that we're here.

Oh shoot, that ended up.

Let me see if I can zoom in.

It's not let me zoom in.

But um, when we went through and created the sky area plan with the R Horton initially, we uh drive aisles are allowed as a conditional use.

But what we're saying is instead of because we're working with a lot of tenants, we've it's been we have a lot of great things going on.

But instead of having to come back each time and do individual site plans, we're just saying let's just approve all, let's just approve all these at one time so we can start signing leases and get going.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

Yep, thank you.

Uh any uh council, I'll take a motion on item number 10.

There's no questions.

Anybody do you want public comment or is there any public comment on this?

I didn't think there'd be on this item because it's just uh design home.

Okay.

Um yeah, so from what I was looking at, I drive this every day.

So um glass, sure.

The drive-throughs on that side of the street, sure.

One one concern I have, and I know I think Page, Heather, Michelle have all spoken in favor of having a pedestrian bridge at some point to get there's school kids who live up on Traverse who are not bused who walk down to Skyridge High School.

Um, and there are kids that are not supposed to, but who walk to viewpoint.

Um I was wondering about this by the way, Rachel Freeman, if I didn't say but anyways, um the drive-through air that the drive driveway, I guess.

That's halfway between Timpanogas Highway and Traverse Terrace on the east side of Center Street.

Is that something that is being considered tonight?

Was that already in the plans?

I I don't see it every time I drive there, there's nothing there right now.

I don't know if that's just uh that's just a question that I have because that's just concerns me on the east side of the street.

I know on the west side of street, there's already that's all built in.

There's a turn lane, everything.

But considering there's uh quite a bit of pedestrian traffic of minors on the east side of the street, and that's where the crosswalk is, all the things.

That's something that I just only think.

Okay.

Yeah, I'm I'm not sure.

Mark, you can respond to this, but I think these this amendment is just for surface changes tonight, correct?

Tell your positioning drive-thru lanes, not not like that.

Yeah, correct.

We're just talking about like uh like a drive-thru at a restaurant.

We're not referring to it's all surface streets.

So I'm I'm I'm not aware of any of the other major kind of traffic items, so I apologize.

But yeah, that's all we're referring to, is just inside the site uh driveways for our drive-throughs, like pole track throughs.

Yeah, I have a question for staff then.

So my understanding is you're wanting an exception to have the drive-throughs go behind the buildings.

Would that interfere at all with pedestrian traffic on that east side of Center Street and possibly a pedestrian bridge?

Do you know?

Um it wouldn't affect the pedestrian bridge, and and really they'll still have sidewalk on both sides of center going all the way up.

So you'd have um planner strip, sidewalk, probably some additional landscaping, then a drive-through, then the building.

Normally, our code, what they're really asking for an exception, normally the buildings would have to front the street, but because of the grades and center street carrying a large volume of traffic, they'd rather turn those buildings and front them into the interior parking lots and areas.

So the drive-thru will come behind those buildings, but you'll still have landscaping, sidewalk, planner strip, so a little bit of buffer between the drive-thru area and illustration.

There's actually quite a bit.

Uh I can't remember the total feet, but then there's retaining walls because if you remember it's center street's pretty good slope.

And so if you can envision like a retaining wall and a building, so it's like center street, side uh park strip, sidewalk, more grass, retaining wall, okay drive-through then building.

So there's a lot of space.

And we have to have railings where the retaining walls are for safety and all that.

So good question.

And this, I mean, this is Paul.

Go ahead.

I I was gonna say I would imagine this would be similar to the swig up in Traverse Mountain where it goes behind the building, and like you said, there's a pretty significant retaining wall below it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That was my comment.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's I need to go to Swig apparently.

Yeah, no, just go up to the outlets and you'll see it on the on the east side of the road if you're going up north.

I picture it like the meters, you know, south of SR92, where you drive past all those boulders.

There's a road up there somewhere, but thank you.

Okay.

Thanks.

All right.

Bring it back up here.

I'll take a motion.

Oh, you still want one of those?

I think we should let Paul have a chance because there's such a lag.

Do you want to do this one, Paul?

I'll I'll do the second.

Okay.

Mr.

Mayor, I move that we approve ordinance 66-2025, approving the sky area plan amendment, creating some design changes to the general non-residential design requirements in the mixed use, and include all DRC comments.

I have a motion to approve by Heather.

Do I have a second?

I'll take the second.

And a second.

Hi, Paul.

Uh any questions on the motion?

Chris, I'm going to start with you.

Yes.

Heather?

Yes.

Paul.

Yes.

Paige?

Yes.

And Michelle.

Yes.

Okay.

That takes us to item number.

Yeah.

That takes us to item number 11, consideration of resolution 2025-84.

Authorizing the issuance and sale of sales revenue bond to finance all or of a portion of the construction of a science and technology building on the campus of Thanksgiving Point.

I think we have Jason is here, Jason Burningham and Randy Larson.

McKay.

Okay.

Well, Randy's back there too.

I was told you are presenting.

So whoever, just come on up and identify yourself and start.

Okay.

The experts can finish.

And I'm just looking for my airplay code to help me out here.

There it is.

Okay, McKay Christensen, CEO of Thanksgiving Point.

And Jason Burningham, wherever he is.

Oh, okay.

He's right behind me.

I'll get started and then Jason can pick up.

Yes, this is to help Thanksgiving Point build a really significant addition to what we have at Thanksgiving Point that will serve as a great piece for our community.

You might already know, I'll move quickly that Thanksgiving Point already has seven award-winning venues at Thanksgiving Point.

We use these venues for a mission, and that mission is twofold.

One to give kids confidence in themselves and STEM, and two, to serve as a gathering place for our community.

That initial part of our mission is captured in this slide, which says that kids in our community from a high income home, 31% of those kids are likely to go on and work in a STEM job, but from low income homes, not so much.

And not only is there an opportunity gap, but also an income gap for those disadvantaged kids.

And we anchor our mission in a simple study that was done following large cohorts of kindergartners from kindergarten to adulthead called the early childhood longitudinal study.

And the first group started in 97.

They're now adults, 10,000 kindergartners.

They dumped the data to the research community.

Here's what the research community said.

Kids decide early in elementary school whether they're good at math or science.

And that is the predictor of whether kids go on to work in a STEM career.

And also from the same research, kids who participate in STEM enrichment programs during that science same time period are also much more likely to participate or to go on and work in a STEM career.

That's why at Thanksgiving Point, any child whose parents are on wicker snap benefits, low income, attend any of our 180 STEM labs a week or any of our science centers, including the one proposed for free.

And to date, we've impacted several hundred thousand visits with those kids.

Here's a little a few more pieces of data about Thanksgiving Point.

We had 1.5 million unique visitors last year.

That puts us five, six or seventh most visited venue in the state of Utah, with almost half of all of our visitors coming from outside of Utah County.

So we are a major fixture for travel and tourism for visits to our area.

You already know all of this.

One addition to this science center will be a Cosm screen.

Mayor Johnson's seen this firsthand.

It's a 60 by 60 by 80 incredible 3D experience designed by Evans and Sutherland and has been installed in four or five locations around the world.

It's like sitting in front of Soaring over California.

It will include a theater experience in front of that.

The meeting space that will be put in front of this Cosm screen is the exact same meeting space we have in the show barn currently.

Cosm will be used for kids' education during the days.

Kids will, through their AI labs and other things, see their iterations of trying to solve real world problems be manifest and present on this Cosm screen.

Field trips, because Evans and Sutherland, who builds COSM, is the premier planetarium company in the world.

Kids will be able to go just about anywhere, whether it's the Sistine Chapel or to the universe and feel like they are right there.

In the evening, we'll utilize it as a meeting space.

Sports watch parties, Olympic meet Olympic sports watch could happen here.

Cosm has a license with Broadway shows, so live Broadway shows could happen here.

Weddings, other gallering gatherings could happen in this space.

So in the meeting space adjacent to the show barn, this is the new meeting space.

We will build this meeting space area, essentially equivalent to the floor of the show barn.

So we can continue to host needed large gatherings in in Lehigh.

They really don't have another option in our area for those size of meetings.

The Cosm screen will be located right there in front of that meeting space with 20 foot high ceilings and about 8,000 square feet of space.

On the second level will be permanent seating, like you would find at the Ruth or Health Center Theater in front of that Cosm screen.

Behind it will be the AI lab for kids.

And when I say kids, this is fourth grade to 9th grade target kids who can come and experience how technology is used in many industries and areas in our world today.

Again, show barn, connection connecting lobby, new building will be built right here.

That's directly to the east of the show barn.

We will have some exterior features so that that sphere can be lit up.

It won't be LED, but it would be projection.

And it will be a real awesome experience for kids to come and experience this.

In the show barn itself, we'll have labs of how technology is used and where we are utilizing technology in our world today.

And the labs and interactive exhibits that will exist in this space will all show kids how technology is advancing these industries in our world today, and they can get hands-on with that technology to create curiosity, resilience, uh, see themselves as scientists, see themselves as technologists, which uh is again our mission.

This would be the combined floor plan on the main level of the two buildings combined, uh, which would again make up that tech science and tech center.

Uh this is right at the heart of everything happening at Thanksgiving Point and uh ideally located.

We have really good experience.

These are based on numbers that we experience in other science centers, but we anticipate somewhere around 700,000 visits a year.

Uh so major attendance at uh this new venue.

Uh Jason, I wonder if you could just step up here and maybe just we were here, so we won't rehearse the whole economic impact study, but just a couple of things.

Thank you.

Jason Burningham, LRB Public Finance Advisors.

Um I think what uh I was asked to maybe just um review with the council this evening was the economic, financial uh and community benefit uh study that was uh commissioned that we uh concluded, and I know that we've already shared this uh with the council, uh, but for the benefit of the public and um really in preface to uh the resolution that's on your agenda tonight, just kind of quickly highlight uh the significant economic impact that is generated uh by Thanksgiving point uh relative to the community.

Um that is a magnitude that's significantly more than this, but what we've captured here is the financial benefit that directly uh's benefit to the city of Lehigh, Utah County, and also the State of Utah.

Um more than 400 million dollars of economic impact is anticipated.

Uh, fiscal financial benefit is anticipated over the next uh 25, well, 20 years, with the last five years also being included in that.

Um approximately 54 million dollars of that comes directly to Lehigh City in the form of sales tax, um, transient, municipal transient room tax and other tax revenues that flow through to the city's general fund.

And so that was one of the um kind of the impetus behind um uh approaching the capital plan here uh based on how this might be funded on an annual basis, approximately 2.2 million is what comes to the general fund of the city.

And as I mentioned in that previous slide, we estimated somewhere between 50 and 60 million uh over the next um 20 years that would come uh directly to the city.

In terms of what is proposed, and I'll then go into a little more of an introduction in terms of the resolution.

But we have got a $60 million project.

McKay has provided some insight into what that looks like.

$30 million of it is proposed to be financed through sales tax revenue bond issued by the city with a lease structure between the city and Thanksgiving Point.

And that's intended to be acquisitive, meaning that through the lease payments, ultimately the idea or the intent is to transfer that over to Thanksgiving Point, and they would continue to operate and run it.

During the lease period, it would be a pass-through lease, so everything would be taken care of by Thanksgiving Point, any utilities, any ongoing maintenance, any personnel, anything like that.

So it's it's really more of a the idea of a mechanism so that tax exempt bond proceeds at the highest investment grade could really be secured here.

And that is really indicated there in the second, I should say the third bullet point of about $6.9 million and potentially even more, net present value benefit that would come through that.

Now I think that's significant as we've addressed that with uh with Jason Dean and others, Marlin and the mayor.

Um, because the 501c3 of Thanksgiving Point because of their charter, because the way they're uh structured, any savings that is directly available uh goes back into their programs.

It has to be put back into programs and the capital facility into their current purpose.

Now that's different on a corporate purpose, where that could go back to shareholders, et cetera.

Those savings go directly back to benefit the project long term.

And so that's a significant part of the participation here that's being requested.

In addition to this proposed um component of it, um, there's another $30 million that will be raised through private sources as well as commitments from county and state resources.

Approximately two-thirds of those resources have been identified already through the State and Utah County, and uh they would come in the form of actual grant monies that would come over the next two or three years.

Uh whereas the bonding package would be the equivalent of $7 million of value, but wouldn't be in the form of actual dollars that you would contribute to this.

I think Dean uh illuminated that a little bit in the council report that he he provided.

Um the remaining approximately 10 million, 11 million is uh currently being worked on.

Um that would result in naming rights of the facility itself, um, the various uh component rooms that are in the facility.

Um this is very achievable uh based on their other projects that they've done.

Um that's well within the range of you know, probably two or three uh supporters that would come in to provide that.

So in this situation, you really have a $60 million asset that the city would technically own uh during the lease period, um, and then $30 million of it would go into the construction with uh the other $30 million to come in the form of, as I mentioned, grants and participation.

Um you want to go through maybe the steps and just some basic steps of how this works.

I'll just go through this.

And if Randy wants to add, he can add.

Um it would begin with the resolution.

Uh it would then Lehigh City and Thanksgiving Point would enter into the lease agreement that Jason spoke about.

Essentially, the lease payments would cover the annual bond payment plus any fees incurred on the part of Lehigh.

Um as Jason mentioned, Lehigh City would have interest in security in the Science and Technology Center.

We would immediately create a reserve fund equal to a year's worth of bond payment plus capital reserve requirements in that lease, and that would remain there permanently throughout the lease period in case it needed needs to be used.

Um the bonds would then be placed in capital markets, the funds would be raised.

Jason would help with that.

And then the proceeds would go into a deposit account that is city led, and we would draw on those funds as needed during the course of construction.

We have approached Utah County.

We went to TTAB a month ago, made a request for $9 million, which essentially is the first three bond payments.

Utah County has said that that's definitely possible.

And that we should come and talk to Lehigh City and come back in the first of first part of December to finalize that request.

But things look positive that if we move forward with this bond, that the Utah County payments would be possible.

Mayor, did you have a question?

No, I was agreeing with you.

I met with uh all three Utah County commissioners the other day about them extending that three million or those three bond payments.

Terrific.

Then under the terms of the lease, we would go about making those bond payments, which would, in a sense, making the lease payments, which would make the bond payments.

Obviously, during this time period, we'd move forward with the building of the building and operations.

The operations, obviously, revenue generated will also fund uh give us proceeds to make lease payments.

Every year we're required to have a budget approved that demonstrates our ability to make said lease payments for the upcoming year.

And at the end of the lease by agreement, uh there'll be a mechanism that will allow the property be re to be returned to Thanksgiving point and uh with some sort of merger language between both lease agreements uh to have that terminated.

Um Jason, you want to speak to this and then I'll just talk timeline and we'll turn it to Randy.

Yeah.

So just quickly, I think I had addressed this earlier, but I think the question has been asked, you know, relative to this support, this level of support, what kind of uh return on investment does this mean for Lehigh City, the residents of Lehigh City.

Um this chart has just shown what we anticipate the contributions being from each of the local taxing entities, well, including the state uh entity relative to this project, and then based on the revenues that flow through to them.

So in the state's case, that's tax um primarily income tax, right?

So income tax, sales tax.

For the county, it's uh a much broader uh sources of property tax, sales tax, but also transient room taxes, restaurant taxes, and other tourism taxes.

And Lehigh City is is really more focused just on the sales tax component with a little bit of municipal transient room tax.

Um, but as you can see, the amounts that would be contributed, how long does it take for you to receive that back in your general fund?

That's what the payback and the return on investment is.

So all of these are well under five years with uh return on investments, uh double digits.

Um I focus more on well, what does that translate into an annual investment return, and that's what the last column is, uh, which is well over eight percent.

Um it it is a uh a relatively good uh return on investment for all of the taxing uh participants, and it incubates uh additional capital that they're also uh talking about doing over the next 10 years.

In terms of timing, we would begin.

We're already underway, obviously, with planning and design.

Uh pre-construction would happen in the first half, first three quarters of next year with construction targeted to towards the end of next year with an opening in 2028 of the center.

Randy, I guess we're coming to you or questions, whatever you would like.

Council, you got any questions.

Yeah, can you uh explain the different layers of backing protections that are in place and um essentially to support the bonds before it becomes something that is sells tax and then um kind of just give figures to those.

I know specifically like the endowment.

Is the endowment ever drawn down?

Is it always at that level of that kind of guarantee?

So the reserves would be held, would essentially be our endowment funds.

Okay.

It would not be drawn down, and by agreement and by resolution of our trustees, they would be held without being used for the course of the lease period until all the terms of the lease are met.

And we can add to the endowment, but they wouldn't be drawn down during that period.

And tell me your the rest of your question.

So yeah, I think that was my understanding was that there was that reserve fund also backed by the Thanksgiving point endowment, also backed by ticket sales for all of Thanksgiving Point.

Also backed by ownership of the building.

So like all these layers that have been put in place to essentially provide you know protection.

You've articulated them really well.

Okay.

Yes, the general net revenue of Thanksgiving point is a large backing.

So any of our operations, the net revenue that we earn from those would be committed to this if we don't make uh lease payment, for example.

Also the security of the building itself as another layer of security.

And the endowment, yes, as another layer of security.

So yes, there are several layers of security to the lease agreement and making the bond payments.

As Dean and I kind of sorted through this, we were working through the you know the as as we'll go into the sales tax revenue bonds as you know is a direct pledge of sales tax to the bondholders.

However, the security provision between Thanksgiving point and Lehigh City is really what you're discussing, which is the the lease agreement, which has been worked through and and discussed at length.

But I think the main points that Dean and I came to really a conclusion that we were comfortable with are the ideas that you just mentioned.

I think one in particular is we believe this is a $60 million plus dollar asset once all the other private contributions, grants and other things come into this the security in essence that we're backstopping is $30 million.

So we've got an asset that's worth you know considerably more than what our our risk profile is.

That's only one component of it.

I think the second component as you mentioned is the reserve funds we are requiring that Thanksgiving point fund those at the time we close the bonds.

So they're not billed up over time.

There will be three million approximately in the one debt service reserve fund and another million in a capital reserve fund.

So four four million dollars right um at the day we close will also be set aside for the benefit of the landlord under the lease if that's ever needed to draw upon now to the extent it is drawn upon, then we have an additional covenant in that lease that says all the net revenues that are generated within the entire Thanksgiving point campus, not just the Science and Tech Center, but throughout the you know the entire operations would be utilized to replenish that amount.

So if it got drawn down maybe a couple of million dollars then they'd need to replenish it $2 million through those ticket sales through other ways of of doing that what McKay has indicated is that their endowment is intended to be an endowment.

So they're living off the interest earnings so the idea is that six million and it grows would just sit there as additional security for the benefit of really timing of if a lease payment comes due and needed to draw upon something it would be there.

And so that's the context of I think what you saw in Dean's report and we've tried to very closely align that with the lease agreement which is really what you're capturing.

Okay.

I have a question along with that is that so those securities the net revenue of the other venues and the endowment is that my understanding was once um the center became operational that the that would no longer replenish those funds but that uh what is it dollar something from each ticket would go towards that is that how it yeah and I probably let Randy describe that I think we actually talked about that as being overly complex that the dollar or $1.50 per ticket sale it was really left over from another template that was used to begin with this.

This has been done multiple times this starting point happened to be with the Hell Center Theater in Sandy this was the document template that was used.

And then that particular case, they did use ticket sales as a way to replenish that.

Um what we talked about just um the other day was really the idea that we would require a net revenue pledge so that once they've paid personnel, once they've paid utilities, et cetera, before they could use anything for capital or anything else, they would be bound to replenish from any funds legally available and that they would have that net revenue pledge as opposed to just a ticket um sell pledge.

Now, Randy, that's still in there.

That's still in there.

My understanding, right?

Yeah.

Just real quick.

This is the bond nerd, right?

Helping to give the documents behind.

The way you get the security interest in the ground is a long-term ground lease.

So Thanksgiving Point is going to ground lease the property plus the existing red barn as is, and the and what the facility will be built on to the city for 40 years.

That then becomes the security interest to Lehigh City in the event that they don't make their lease payments.

You would foreclose on the balance of that ground lease.

But this that that's how you get the security interest in the ground.

So not just the building with the ground as well?

Yes.

With access as well.

So I mean, it's pretty that that is intended to nervous Nelly bond lawyers.

I don't think Thanksgiving Point has any intention of allowing that ground to come to the city or to miss, but worst case, that's what you'd be able to recognize if the lease payment wasn't made.

Then the revenues, there is in the lease a concept of tickets.

We discussed with uh staff simplifying that to the city's favor of saying just net revenue from the from all of the facilities as has been described.

So that would be the endowment will fund the reserves first.

If they're drawn upon, there's nothing that can promise that the endowment gets refilled.

So there would be a pledge of net revenue from the other facilities.

That's what that lease creates as the security for the sales tax bond.

And what you get with the net revenues above the tickets is net revenues also includes sponsorship revenues, any type of membership revenues, ticket revenues, concession revenues, it's really their entire operations is what you would say.

But just this venue.

No, no, all of it.

All of it.

Okay.

So we would I mean this is the documents we're voting on today, so that would come back as an amendment or it's actually in the form of lease and it's in um the council report from uh Dean.

So those principles you're voting upon would be bound into that lease.

I just spent all day reading through the documents and it's in there.

So I want to know what I'm voting on, and I want it in black and white, I guess.

It's in there right now.

Should we amend that?

Because that's really not the intent here.

Oh, yes.

Yes, I I I expected that to be a business point of any motion today to approve this resolution would be that the lease would include a net revenue pledge rather than just ticket sales.

I'm sorry.

That's your question, yes.

Um I'll come back to help with that.

Okay.

Okay.

And so I I understand you're looking for nine million from the county, which hasn't been approved yet.

So I talked to McKay about this too, that that would be something that ought to be this ought to be contingent on that, especially if it's providing these payments before you're up and running, right?

Um then how much are you expecting from the state?

You're hoping, I guess.

We don't know yet.

We're still working on our approach to the state.

But we've put in an estimate here of 10 million.

It might be less than that.

It might be five million.

Um Utah County, the only issue that I would have with a content uh contingency would just be timing.

Um it might take Utah County a few months to come around to decision.

They may have additional questions, so it would just be it it might just be simpler without, but we will, as the mayor's already talked to the county commissioners, we will stay dead on on that request and see that through its entirety.

Okay.

And so that if the first three bond payments, they're biannual, so that's a year and a half of bond payments from the county.

I was simplifying and just saying three million dollars a year, they would be made in semi-annual payments of one and a half each, but three million a year for a total of nine million, so three years were that makes me feel better.

If I could add to, we did do a pretty deep financial pro forma dive into the operations of Thanksgiving Point.

And although the three million from the county is intended for each of those first three years, Thanksgiving Point has the ability to service these bonds without that.

So I want to be clear with that that that's, you know, I I appreciate the idea of the contingent concern, but really from the cash flow, the debt service is certainly doable.

They can sustain that.

I think the idea was additional comfort to the city to say, you know, we we would have those monies coming in too on top of already what our net revenues are in order to take care of the bonds.

Okay.

And then so mostly you're looking at you want a tax exempt municipal bond to save on the interest rate, right?

Now why, and I understand that you've done it with Hail Center.

A similar arrangement was made for the the Ruth with Pleasant Grove.

And I I looked into some of that.

Um with the Ruth, they did something different, a conduit bond, which you brought up too.

Um I feel much better with that because we're not pledging, you know.

I really doubt you'll not a default or anything like that, you know, but you never know.

And this is for up to 20 years, you know, so who knows what's going to happen.

Um I personally don't feel comfortable pledging tax dollars, public dollars for a private pursuit.

Um my understanding of a conduit bond is that we don't have to pledge that sales tax revenue, that we are just the vehicle, so you can access that better interest rate through a tax exempt municipal bond.

Um that's what I would prefer to see.

I think the residents of Lehigh would probably feel more comfortable with that.

Um it should give you similar savings, correct, or not a little maybe a little bit.

No, it would be a little different.

So I I think um what we tried to, I think, kind of highlight on that $6.9 million net present value is really the difference between uh what I would call a highly investment rated credit, so the sales tax revenue bond double A plus versus a conduit issue, which is still tax exempt, but would be viewed as non-rated, so it wouldn't be rated.

So the differential in the interest costs of the one option to the other is the equivalent of say eleven or twelve million dollars of payment difference over the life of the bonds.

And if you took that back to a net present value, it's about six point nine million.

So that would be the primary difference uh in terms of the cost.

There is some example, Health Center in Sandy did do it exactly this way.

As you pointed out, the Ruth, doTERRA and Pleasant Grove had a combination actually.

So they had a mezzanine approach.

So one of the components of it for $35 million was a city issue, and it was tax exempt, it was rated.

As you pointed out, the other was a conduit.

So they kind of bifurcated the project.

They had a $35 million piece and a $25 million piece.

Ironically, kind of similar uh size, but um ours is similar in that the $30 million is privately being invested or privately being sought and not through a conduit versus the $30 million.

So I would still say the doTERRA model is similar here, at least in terms of how much of it was a true governmental bond issue versus what was conduit.

Um we did think about the conduit issue as another way to do it.

So I think it is fair to talk about that.

We anticipate that interest rate is a minimum of maybe five and a half percent, most likely more like six or six and a quarter percent.

For the tax exempt, even a talk tax exempt conduit bond.

Whereas this sales tax revenue bond right now, we're talking about between 3.5 and 3.75 percent.

So that's the delta difference, you know, three and a half to five and a half or more.

If we were to do the conduit initially, the thought was like Utah County, because of the cost benefit in the ROI, then it would have been requesting, whether that's over three years or five years or ten years, the equivalent of that seven million dollars of net present value.

So I think if it was approached that way, then I agree it would be sixes.

Does that make sense?

So if we didn't do the sales tax bond that saves the seven million that goes back into the project, we do this other form of financing, but it costs a seven million more, we would be asking Lehigh City to contribute seven million in cash.

Okay.

Okay.

But you are, unlike the Ruth that was a startup, right?

They didn't have revenue coming in.

You have revenue from the other venues.

Right.

I mean, you have other things to back it with.

Um I just this is taxpayer money.

This is public dollars that we're asking to, you're asking us to put that at risk.

It is a risk.

Um I you know, I I love what you're doing.

It's great, but is it is it what we should be doing with taxpayer dollars when we have another opportunity, another uh mechanism, I guess, to get you a tax exempt municipal bond, which would save you money, it would, right?

Um if you just bond it by yourself.

And I I there's always a the Utah Constitution um Article 6, Section 29 says neither the state nor any county, city, town, school district, other political subdivision of the state may lend its credit in aid of any private individual or corporate enterprise or undertaking.

And I know there's obviously obviously workarounds, but in principle I I agree with that that um what we're doing here by pledging sales tax revenue is that we're lending you our credit.

And it's again, it's it's not my money to give away.

Um if I had this budget of my own, I totally would, you know what?

Um I would love to look more into conduit bonding or um something where it I think there were some other uh mechanisms where it wasn't pledging sales tax revenue.

Um our financial director isn't here.

I guess he's out of town.

Otherwise, I'd be talking to him today and probably getting more answers.

But I personally I would um and you mentioned you didn't have to have this done by the end of the year.

If we could just wait for one city council meeting, have him come here, present to us what it would look like to do a conduit bond and compare those.

Um because it's we're taking on this risk, so I think it's fair to look at both options and and weigh those out.

That's that's my position.

I really appreciate where you're coming from.

Um I think you make a good point earlier on.

Pleasant Grove incurred a $35 million sales tax revenue bond for the Ruth with no proven operations because they had faith in what the end result would be and what it would do for their community.

Um here you have the full backing of all of Thanksgiving Point, of all of our membership, of all of our sales, of all of our events he spoke about.

So a much lower risk profile than what Pleasant Grove took on with their similar bond for the Ruth.

Yeah.

Um I'm not an expert on bonding, so maybe maybe this is for you, but always sitting down.

Um for a conduit bond, my understanding is that public access protections are somewhat lower.

Is that the case?

I mean, for a sales tax bond, they're a little more strict and they need to be baked into the contract, is that right?

The uh they're comparable, similar.

I mean, the unique nature is Thanksgiving Point is a 501c3 corporation under Feder has a federal designation.

As such, the Federal Government allows for bonds issued for their benefit to be tax exempt.

Um so there really isn't uh a distinction between a conduit benefit and a sales tax bond for this.

And maybe I could just I was gonna save this for the motion, but maybe this helps, okay.

What the what is before the council is number one, a sales tax bond.

You're familiar with that, okay?

It it that I mean it is kind of complicated, but you've done that before.

Um not not new to the council.

And what is being asked is are you willing to do a sales tax bond for a project that you will own?

Have I mean it won't be owned by Thanksgiving Point.

You'll be leasing it to them, they'll be operating it to provide the benefits that it provides.

And so are you comfortable issuing a sales tax bond based upon the security interest in the facility, right?

The ground lease, an endowment that exists as reserves, and then a net revenue pledge behind that.

And and that's what is before you.

State law, your lending of credit is totally appropriate.

If we were building something that totally belonged to Thanksgiving Point, you will own that.

Um it'll book an asset on the city side until they make their lease payments to acquire it back.

Um and even then there's some tax analysis we won't go into uh on that piece, but but for your benefit, that's what's being asked.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, uh but along with the public access question, uh I mean, you know that's my I'm a former teacher, so a major selling point for me and for the community benefit is that there are student opportunities here and that there are lower income opportunities here for the children in Lehigh and in the broader community.

Are any of those written in explicitly?

I just want to make sure that what's currently a benefit um remains that way for the larger entity of Thanksgiving Point, but particularly that that same thing is sh replicated here.

That's the intent of the lease for Thanksgiving point to operate in the same manner it has been, if you would like more certainty that the lease would ensure that or require that, that could be part of the motion.

I would.

Thank you.

I think that's a really good point.

Council.

Thank you for your presentation.

Uh council.

Any other questions?

Paul.

Paul, you got a question.

I'm good, I've been listening.

Okay.

I will entertain a motion on item number eleven.

I just comment first, though.

Sorry, was waiting for the I think we talk a lot about how we can get businesses or other entities to help pay for our parks and our amenities.

This is a pretty creative way.

I really like creative ways.

Uh looking in, I talked to a Pleasant Grove City Council member today and asked them about the Ruth and how that all went down.

And she let me know that uh Pleasant Grove contributes 300,000 a year towards that.

So that's almost 8 million that they're contributing, plus they did the the other bonding to help facilitate that.

And she said it's the best thing that's ever happened there.

And what it's bringing in now, and because of these public-private partnerships, that I think we're really blessed here in Lehigh that we have this amenity that our taxpayers haven't had to pay through Lehigh bonding.

Um I do have concerns that we, you know, we are gonna we have to back this through to be able to get that interest rate, but I would rather have that seven to eight million funneled back into Thanksgiving Point to build up more things on Thanksgiving Point rather than to go into a bank's pocket.

Um I feel pretty comfortable with the amount of backing layers that we have on here to protect this so that it never would go to having to be backed by um sales tax.

So that's why I I think it to be able to get these kind of things to our residents that improve their quality of life, their property values, the living here in Lehigh and having these kind of attractions for our students, our kids, our families.

Um I like that there's a way that we can participate in this without doing what PG did and contributing eight million of taxpayer money towards it.

So that's my my take on that.

Thank you.

We're actually contributing money we don't have right now, right?

I mean, it will come and you're generating it.

So yeah, I I I very I'm very comfortable with this deal.

In fact, it's one of the better ones that I think I've seen.

Can I make one more comment?

Yes.

What would it hurt to look at another option where we don't have to pledge public funds and put I mean we have 88 million dollars in debt with the pledge revenue, so I don't know if that's just sales tax revenue.

And this will bring us up to 120 million dollars of debt.

Um the conduit bond will give you what you were asking for, that tax exempt municipal bond, that reduced rating, right?

Um that will give you savings as well.

And you will pay directly, we won't have to do this.

Lehigh leasing the ground from you, and then you leasing it back from Lehigh, and then all the things I've read in here about doing it for how many years, and then 15 years later.

I I would like to look at that if I don't see that being as a a problem.

I yeah.

I'm your counsel, so I'm gonna let them respond, but I could just paraphrase, I think what you heard was that that would be a seven million dollar net present value difference between a conduit and what's proposed.

And you are welcome to say I don't want to do that.

I'm just I'm just your counsel, so I'm not here to coach you to do it.

So there would be no when you say that seven million dollars, there so there would be no difference.

There would be a significant difference between the sales tax and a conduit.

Okay, but right now with a tax exempt municipal bond sale back by sales tax revenue, you get a eight uh six point nine million dollars savings.

Right.

But you're saying which is their numbers, but I'm still lawyer.

Without without the backing of the sales tax revenue, that savings would go away?

Is that what you're saying?

It would be as if the tax exempt municipal bond will make no difference, you would just go privately and seek your own bond and it would be the same?

I think I think just to clarify, the seven million dollars is a distinction without talking about tax exemption, okay?

It's saying if you did a conduit bond, then the then the the investment bankers have estimated a seven million dollar difference between the sales tax structure and Thanksgiving point doing a conduit bond.

If you added to that and you said, well, I'll do a conduit so you can do your tax exempt savings, that's probably another several million dollars of savings, but it would be an addition to the seven.

So the the distinction for why a conduit and why a sales tax is roughly seven million dollars.

Can can I give an example just to see if I'm following you?

Um use a simple lower number, I guess.

So if you go and purchase something for a million dollars, and I I know this is not the complexity of the bond, but just to see if I'm on the same page.

Um if I if I were to um take out a loan on on on a million dollars and I got three and a half percent interest on that, so let's say that's $350,000 over period of time, versus if and that required certain backing to get that percentage.

If I didn't have that backing, then they would say, well, we're gonna get up your interest rate to seven percent, so now that's $700,000 in interest.

So whether I pay that off in one year or ten years, I'm paying either $350,000 in interest versus a $700,000 in interest.

And so the difference of that $450,000, I'm that's more cash.

I had the handover in interest payments, correct?

Um so what what I understand what the sales tax back revenue bond versus the conduit is your you're out of um out of your pocket, out of cash, cash out of pocket is going to be much higher because you're gonna pay a much higher interest rate for that cost.

Ver even though you're still getting the tax exempt, you're you're getting a higher interest rate, so that's uh the the higher cost.

Yeah.

As Jason said, the difference in interest rates can be about three and a half to six percent roughly.

So about $750,000 more a year in interest payment over 15 years for that ten or twelve million dollars total additional payments that he's discounted back for a current value of six point nine million.

Yeah.

So there's two components to the savings available to Thanksgiving point.

Maybe this will help.

I I agree with your analogy.

The first one is the credit behind it.

Okay.

Thanksgiving point does not have the same credit that Lehigh City does on its sales tax.

So the sales tax component and the city saying I'm willing to buy that asset, I want Thanksgiving point to operate it, but that structure has the savings of the seven million.

There's an additional savings available to Thanksgiving point that wouldn't wouldn't be helped by the sales tax bond by virtue of them being a 501c3 and able to get a tax exempt interest rate.

What does that mean?

It means that the lender doesn't have to pay income taxes on the interest.

So if their tax rate is 20 percent, they're usually willing to give a 20 percent lower interest rate for the tax exemption.

That would be an addition savings.

So yes, conduit provides savings.

The sales tax structure provides additional savings as has been described.

And if I if I heard correct from Jason, not that the city would have to do it, but if you went the conduit bond route, then Thanksgiving Point would likely come to us and say, would you like to contribute $7 million cash, correct?

Over 15 years or 20 years, whatever the term of the bond.

Right now, like to your point, Heather and Mayor, I mean, I think we give, is it $50,000 right now per the butterfly and the curiosity, so $100,000 a year?

Plus $300,000.

Yeah, so I mean, so that's part of the yeah.

It's something that is almost as long as I've been on the council that we've we've I've I've been in full support of, and and I think it's a tremendous asset to the city.

Um I I do I I understand your concern, Michelle, and I do I I do question the you know, during during the election we hear about, well, how do how do other businesses take advantage of things that only certain people can with the city?

Um with what you said with the const the state constitution, I'm not it do you know how what the workaround is with that?

Is it because of the 5013 501 status or no?

It's it's the city saying I'm willing to acquire a 40-year leasehold interest in a project, and I feel like Thanksgiving point is the best operator for that to deliver its benefits.

Could a private entity come and ask for the same thing?

Because they were willing to allow us to lease it to the asset to they.

It probably would not be tax exempt unless they were a 501c which is separate, right?

So that 501c3 is what to allow you to do the tax exempt where a private business or entity wouldn't get but that's that's tax code.

That's not and and you would have to be I mean, yes, like let's say you had a private entertainment company that you bought this leasehold insurance, you wanted them to operate it.

You could do that, but the interest rate would be taxable, but the same savings and net present between a conduit here would be the same, roughly the same.

It would be taxable even though the city is the one who took out the bond?

Yeah, it's a good thing.

If you wanted to have a private company operate your asset, right, like to hold concerts or do movies or different components, a private company, a for-profit company would not be entitled to a tax exempt interest rate from the Federal Government, correct?

Okay.

I see what you're saying there.

Could you tell me there are certain things that qualify?

I see.

The interest rate would be, so we're saying 3.5 percent sales tax, 5.5, 6 percent for conduit.

What would it be if we didn't do either?

Because that's really the number that we're missing.

If it was just a corporate debt, um you know, I would say at least probably another 75 basis points on top of the five and a half.

So I'd say six and a half to maybe six and three quarters.

And it wouldn't be tax exempt either.

So that would add on extra.

So you're I don't know, seven and a half, is that what you're saying?

Yeah, seven and a half, and the reality on the corporate structure is they wouldn't get a 15-year fixed rate.

It would be a variable uh structured loan based on probably the Wall Street prime, probably uh the prime rate right now plus a spread of maybe 100, 200 basis points.

So the reality is is it would be a much higher interest rate, it also would be variable, so it would be subject to interest rate movement.

Okay.

So calculating those, it'd be a 29 million in interest over the 20 years, a conduit would be 20.6, and the sales tax would be 12.2.

So it's dropping at 7 million for each of these.

Yeah.

If I could focus, I think back on your observation as and I didn't do a very good job of articulating it, but I think you said it well when you said what is the $7.9 million mean, or $6.9 million really mean.

You described it better, but I would describe it also as saying if we do the conduit issue, that $6.9 million is going to go into commercial banks pockets.

That's going to go into investors' pockets.

If we use the sales tax revenue bond issue, that $6.9 million is going to be reinvested back into Thanksgiving point.

Because the $501 doesn't have shareholders, they've got to use it for their purpose.

And I thought that was the point that was made of why is that $6.9, whatever the difference is, why is that such a great opportunity here?

Because it's additional investment that would go back into it.

Uh to your point, Chris, too, yes, I I think when we looked at the return on investment, that was what was presented to Utah County based on that return on investment, it was please help us with $9 million.

I think the same would be here is we'd be asking for seven, eight, nine million dollars.

Again, that money would come in.

If we have the conduit, all we would be doing is taking that money and paying it to the capital markets.

Can I ask a quick question?

This is a really simple thing just to bring it down to my level.

But if this is a proposed, what, 20 or 25 year old?

15.

15-year bond.

Up to up to 21 years.

The parameters is up to 21, yeah.

Okay.

But if everything goes as planned, right?

Lehigh City at the end of that term really is out of pocket zero dollars.

Correct.

Correct.

And we've added, we've helped add a $60 million asset to the city by giving no dollars at all.

All we did is give our credit rating to help.

Is that the same thing?

Yeah, that's basically.

That's how we've analyzed it.

Um I will say that when I sat down with Dean and I think Jason as well, I think we looked at the different options.

So it's not like the conduit wasn't investigated.

There was a lot of effort put into looking at, you know, just commercial, um, doing it on a commercial basis, private commercial basis, doing it a conduit issue, doing it as a sales tax, and it it worked through that process to ultimately come to these conclusions of well, that makes a lot more sense because that savings is significant.

We're not asking for current dollars.

And that was Dean's other point, I think he shared in his memo was that was another advantage he saw of this was I'm not making a future commitment for more dollars.

I'm just providing my mechanism actually to get to the capital market.

And it's I think that's important to emphasize is that we're not pledging any dollars to the backing of the bond is against our sales tax revenue.

But when I say we're not we're not pledging any dollars, we're not saying annually we're giving you, you know, the equivalent of $7 million, $8 million over 15 years.

We're we're we're saying we are willing we're and we're not having to also adjust any sales tax rates.

We're not doing anything with sales tax.

There's no increase in sales tax, there's no nothing like that.

It's just saying we're taking our credit rating with our sales tax revenue stream and saying we're willing to back this $30 million bond with that.

And if everything goes as planned, Lehigh City does not disperse any money per s any tangible money.

Right.

And at the end of the time we switch the lease back over to TPI, and we have this new $60 million asset in our city.

Yeah.

And and on top of that, you've got the longevity and the sustainability of Thanksgiving Point that has five or six other venues that have committed significant dollars here, wants to commit more dollars, has a capital campaign that's another hundred million with other venues.

And this is kind of that encouragement to continue to invest in the community.

That's how we look at it.

And with the net revenue, I um I would assume that that the way that that would work is is that each year before any additional net before that net revenue can be assigned to the next fiscal year budget, you've got to determine that, hey, the base the uh bond payment was paid, there's no um reserve that we have to refund, right, or replenish.

Yep.

Um and then once those you once those things are checked off, now that net revenue is for that year can be spent uh uh according to the board and to Thanksgiving Point, correct?

Right.

That's the same thing.

And then you just start for the next year again and say, okay, did the bond payment get made?

Yep, okay, now everything else is as is with Thanksgiving Point, as far as correct.

Well, well stated.

Okay.

Can I ask you what what happens if you don't get your under other um donations or don't contribution?

Yeah.

I mean, it's one of the the potential concerns from our financial director is the incomplete um capital structure.

So if Utah County decides six million instead of nine million, you don't get the money from the state.

One of the other benefits we had this discussion too is we're very uh we're very settled on at least two-thirds of the 30 million.

But I understand what you're saying, that's a good point.

It is a scalable project.

So I don't want to speak to the scalability, but McKay probably could uh address that.

But the idea of this being up to $60 million, that's what's intended.

And clearly uh the other $30 million would come in the form of, we believe it's gonna come in the form of Utah County, the State of Utah.

So you basically have 10 million, 10 million, and then another 10 million would be privately raised through naming rights, et cetera.

Based on our experience, put that in perspective, the Hell Center Theater in Sandy, they they the City of Sandy issued almost 50 million dollars of bonds.

They issued that with a total maturity of 25, 20 27 years technically they will be paying that bond off this December.

So it will be 17 years early of what they originally intended.

And most of that was because of naming rights, philanthropic giving, and continued support from the community.

So even though I'm comfortable with the idea that it's scalable, meaning hey, if I only have $58 million, can I make a $58 million project work?

I think it's scalable to that degree and we're not concerned that you know this is $30 million only.

I'll let you do you want to okay.

Okay.

And then can you you said we'd own it for 40 years.

I don't like owning buildings that people rather that as soon as it's paid off you will take it back.

Is that right?

I'm not going to take it back I'm thinking is to what we've suggested in the lease agreement is I think right now we modified it to be 30 years, did we not?

Or is it still the 40 year 40 year ground lease ground lease.

Okay.

The lease term is really consistent with the bond which is a 15 year there is an extension provision in there I think for additional 15 years.

The purchase option is set up in a way and Randy's more articulate articulate on this point but because the tax exemption federal tax law the fair market value of this asset is what the city has to be able to dispose of that in the future.

But in terms of figuring what that fair market value is, you can consider these lease payments that are made as well as if they prepay it early so in the case of Sandy Hell their 33 million of bonds still outstanding they're paying all of that 33 million dollars off.

So they've made 20 some odd million of lease payments they'll make another 33 million dollars of redemption payments and by virtue of that and the sales tax and other benefit that they've created they're in essence transferring that asset to Health Center Theater for zero dollars.

Can I have one thing sorry and I think what council will have to do is create some merger language between the two lease agreements so that that merger language allows both lease agreements to be terminated when and if that happens.

So Jason you were going to make a comment just a moment but when they first brought this to us my immediate concern was well this is going to eat into our debt capacity and it and it does it really does and my job is to make sure that we have enough money to do our projects not everyone else's projects.

But as Dean and I looked at it our our debt capacity is so large we we wouldn't be able we would run out of the ability to make payments before we ran into our debt ceiling.

So to give an example I could go to the bank and qualify for a hundred thousand dollar car but my ability to make those payments would run out way before I could buy a hundred thousand dollar car.

I couldn't fit that into my monthly family budget.

Does that make sense?

Your new car didn't cost that much?

No but does that make sense?

So yes it it cuts into our our debt capacity but it's debt capacity that we would otherwise not ever use.

No exactly that's exactly the point Michelle we would never ever need it.

So it's it's being put to use by an organization whereas we would have no practical use for it.

Okay.

Let's uh that's did you have something else Randy?

I just wanted to help coach because we have had a couple of amendments to make sure uh components of the lease and I I'm I'm available forever might want to make a motion to help I think we've talked ourselves in circles here a few times I think it's time to move forward I'd love to take a motion on this item but to your point the ticket price that was duplicated in this that you wanted removed is that right that's one of the things that I think I think there are two things that have been at play so that revenue this resolution approves the bond documents for sales tax bonds that's the majority of the pages you got in your packet and then there is a ground lease that creates the security interest to the city that's what you would be acquiring.

That's what you'd be acquiring.

And then there is this lease agreement that creates the security to your bonds.

And what I have heard are two things.

One was already anticipated, and that is greater than just ticket sales.

It would be a net revenue pledge as an ultimate backstop to the reserve funds.

And then the second one was that the uh school and and other public facilities would be operating substantially similar terms as they are currently.

Can I ask a question here just real quick?

Yeah, let's make it quick because we've got a message.

So in section 3.5 where it talks about the net um amount equal to $1.50 per each ticket sold.

Are we are we saying that do we want to erase or replace that with net?

How would you say that net revenue?

Revenues of all of the facilities of Thanksgiving.

Thank you.

Important term being net revenues.

Okay, I'll take a motion with Randall's help.

Mr.

Mayor, I'll make a motion that we approve resolution 2025-84 authorizing the issuance and sell of sales tax revenue bonds to finance all or a portion of the construction of a science and technology building on the campus of Thanksgiving Point, that in the lease agreement, section 3.5, which refers to a dollar fifty per each ticket be changed, be removed and changed to the net revenue of all facilities of Thanksgiving that are operated at Thanksgiving Point.

And that we also include in either the ground or the lease agreement that the facility that the science and technology center facility in the barn will be available operated the same as the current Thanksgiving point oper uh facilities are ran and and offered to what that means.

Probably just language that approves the ground lease and the lease agreement.

So that because that's not in the the written portion of this resolution.

Yeah.

The resolution does approve the lease and the ground lease as exhibits.

You're just amending the lease.

All of your provisions would be to the lease, just the ground lease.

So approving the resolution with uh modifying um the reserve the the ticket sales to net revenues from all of Thanksgiving Point facilities, and then secondly, that the facility, the new science technology be operated substantially similar to public programming as Thanksgiving Point currently operates.

Does that make sense?

I'm looking at T.

Okay.

You got it.

She's good.

Okay.

I have a motion by Chris.

Uh can I have a second second?

A second by Heather.

Any questions on that motion?

I do have a question.

Um you had mentioned something about creating a merge merger language between the two agreements.

Is that something we also need to include?

No.

No, we will we will take care of that.

I mean, we these documents are substantially final form with the motion amendments, but we will make sure that they tie together.

Should we just include that?

And that needs to be taken care of too.

Or defer to council.

We're we're both your counsel on this one to ensure that.

I would like to defer to council.

That's not a substantial change, but it doesn't hurt if you want to put it in the motion.

We're better said, thank you.

Are you okay or do you want it added?

I'm okay if it's why not.

Okay.

Yeah.

Just checking.

Chris could thank you, Randall and everybody else for all the information.

I know there's been a lot that has run into this.

We didn't pass it.

And there's a question to the motion, please.

Okay.

Um two things.

What you refer to a specific section.

Can you just broadly say remove that language?

Is it in other places as well as my concern?

Yeah.

And then um can you clarify what you mean run as the other so if I understood Page correctly, so the the children on SNAP benefits, um WIC benefits will have free access to this building.

So that's an example.

This they as they have free access to all of Thanksgiving Point now, they'll also have free access to this facility.

So the current way that uh uh Thanksgiving Point operates their facilities to their membership and to the public will be the same way that they'll run that it will be this.

So that specifically is what you're looking for.

Yeah.

So can that be part of the motion?

Well, I just uh to your point of being broad, I th I think being broad that it will just operate under the same scope that they operate their other facilities is what I was trying to do there.

So it includes all of that is what my thought is.

It seems a little too broad that that they're good with it.

Not too broad on one and not broad enough on the other.

Or but on the first one, I do agree.

So it takes out the section 3.5 and just say any, you know, replace any net ticket revenue with net anywhere else that may be appropriate.

I think the reserve monies is the section that it referred that's 3.5.

There are a couple of other sections that we refer to the reserve money.

Typically that's what a uh a council would do is enforce the business points without the the needy detail and and say, and I should remind you passage of this motion would not bind you to issue bonds.

Um it is it starts a process.

So no one should rely on because we've approved it, it will happen.

It just starts the process.

Thank you.

Second stance.

I got a motion, a second with comments that stands.

Uh we I think I'm starting with you, Chris.

Yes.

Heather?

Yes.

Paul.

Yes.

Paige?

Yes.

Uh Michelle.

I'm gonna vote no.

Okay.

Not because I don't support this project, because it's amazing.

I would have liked to look at other options so we wouldn't have to obligate taxpayer money for this.

But I just want to please put this in the minutes too.

Very much appreciate all you guys do.

So thank you.

Okay.

Uh item 12, uh consideration resolution 20 2580.

This is the board of canvassers uh certifying the official canvas report of the November 4th, 2025 General Municipal Election for Lehigh City.

Uh Tisha, do you have to pass this around and use everybody's signatures on it?

As um Paul's gonna struggle with that.

I know.

We'll have to figure out what to do about Paul's signature later.

But um, yeah, so this is just uh you guys are just making well you use the good paper for this.

I did.

I go, yeah, that's the official record paper.

Um so this is just like simply custom.

It's just simply um approving it's a formal approval of the election results is what um is what you're approving tonight.

Um do you have any questions about any of the reports that were provided?

Okay, sure.

Make sure to get the right line, right?

Your name under it.

You ready for a motion, Mayor?

Yeah, uh we have to go into uh after this is done.

Yeah, we have to approve the resolution and then we can go back into that.

So I'll take we'll take a motion on this one, Paul, if you're ready.

Yep, uh Mayor, I move that we approve uh as presented.

I have a motion by Paul.

Do I have a second?

I'll give it to Paige.

Okay.

Uh Heather.

Yes.

Paul Yes.

Page.

Yes.

Uh Michelle.

Yes.

And Chris.

Yes.

Okay.

Uh we have to go back and do the closed door session.

We didn't have a chance to go through everything.

So if we want to do that, this is uh issues of personnel.

Uh Mr.

Mayor, I'll make a motion that we close our city council meeting and that we um adjourn into a closed executive meeting for the discussion of personnel um issues.

Sorry, can you just use maybe different language other than the personnel?

The character competence or professional competent competence, yeah.

Um go into closed session to discuss the character professional competence or the physical or mental health of an individual.

Is that it?

Yeah, that's perfect.

Sorry, you seconded the five months.

Okay, I did.

Thank you.

I fell.

Thank you for the reminder, Paige.

I didn't hear Paul's response, but it's too moved to five.

Okay, somebody can call him from closed session.

I'm gonna assume Paul will call you on the