Or council feels unified says, Yeah, we want to make these as policies.

We we can do that.

But right now what we call them part of the reason they did this, I like it.

And the other reason is anytime you go get uh rating for bonds, they want to look at your financial policies.

So I kind of copied what you know, read some other cities, what they had, read GFOA, government finance officers, they have some guidelines and put these together.

But I think it's good that you know what they are because they go in our budget every year.

We had kind of adopt them as part of our budget.

Um, but I also don't want to think it's like this isn't like city code or anything.

This is when putting the budget together, we want to keep these things in mind.

Um, and these are the seven categories, and we'll just look at these.

I don't think this will take too long.

Budgeting.

So some of them are pretty obvious.

We want to have balanced budgets, right?

We have whatever we budget in revenues is what we can budget in expenditures.

Now, that being said, realize that if we have surplus from a previous year and we want to budget that as a capital project in the next year, your butt your budget is still balanced.

Like you're using like using reserves is okay to balance your budget.

It's not a good idea maybe necessarily for your general fund.

So I I'll uh a city I work for that I'll remain nameless.

We sold a piece of property for a million dollars and use that in our general fund as a revenue to pay for ongoing things.

What's the problem with that?

What do I do next year?

I can't if I hired people with that money, I can't, and I guess I can.

Am I gonna lay them off?

Or I have to have money, it's like I start that million dollars in the hole, if that makes sense.

But if you think about it, most of our capital projects funds are gonna budget a deficit.

They're gonna because we're saying we collected money this year, we're gonna use it the next year, and so our revenue source is savings, and that makes sense with capital projects.

Conservative estimates, I've always tried to do conservative estimates, and by that I just mean when I look at what I think we're gonna get in revenues.

I don't necessarily try to stretch it.

Now, every year you get into this budget thing and you're looking at trying to make things balance, and so sometimes, okay, I'm gonna budget 22 million dollars in sales tax revenues, and so then you get into things and it's like you know, could I budget 22 million two hundred thousand and still be reasonable?

There's not an exact formula that we need to follow.

There's a little bit of art to this, but by being conservative, that gives you a little margin for error.

You don't really know what's gonna happen, especially with sales taxes during the year.

You could have certain downturns or certain things happen, and if you've not been conservative, it can get you into trouble faster.

Uh same with expenditures.

We budget, we assume that our positions are gonna be filled all year long.

No, there's there's probably gonna be times when they're not filled.

Of course, you have the they have the opposite too.

You have somebody who retires that's been here for 20 years, and you have a vacation payout, that's money you weren't necessarily planning.

Usually they kind of balance out.

Um so now by nature, could having conservative estimates is gonna lead to a little bit of a surplus at the end of the year, usually.

One-time funds, I talked about being careful with one-time funds, quarterly reports.

Um, I have one today.

We maybe we won't get to this till next week, or maybe we get to it at a council.

But there's a quarterly report I've been preparing that I get to the elected officials every quarter.

Um I never really know what to put in there.

I try to put it in a somewhat format that is fine, like our financial statements, but I don't want to put in, I don't want it to be 140 pages either.

So look at that.

And if you have input on things that would like something different.

Pardon me, I'm trying to think of what I would like to see if I was in your seat, and I don't always know.

So but we'll look at some examples of that.

And I would I'll show you this when we get to it.

But the first quarter report is always not that useful because a lot of things haven't happened, there's a lot of expenditures that haven't happened.

We don't get property tax, like so our sales tax, the sales that occur in July are collected by the vendor in July.

They're paid to the tax commission in August, and then they're paid to the city in September.

So when I give you a report as of September 30th, I don't have hardly any property tax because it's all paid in uh December, and I've only got one month of sales tax, and so you look at it, and it does there's just not a lot of good data there.

And so you look at it, and it does there's just not a lot of good data there.

So I always on the first one.

I don't know.

I don't think it's not that useful, but sometimes it feels not that I have a suggestion.

Yeah.

So like just coming from the private sector, I would love to see the quarterly report compared to like previous years.

I think that would be helpful, just like with the revenue to see like kind of where it compared like comparatively.

Yeah.

And it doesn't have to go back very far, but maybe two years.

So I think that's a good suggestion.

Um taxes, property tax, property taxes.

So one of our guidelines is just that we will consider property tax race adjustments every two years with the intent that maybe we would recover economic costs to do in small amounts than longer periods of time and do larger ones.

Um what this is the cycle that I think cities get into is we're not gonna do it, we're not gonna do it, we're not gonna do it until you get back to into a corner.

I'll use an example of Utah County that they hadn't done it in many, many years.

They were looking at selling property to help bullet budget b balance their budget, and so when they did it, it was like 12% or something like that.

And so I guess my I would just rather do it more often in smaller per 15 years.

I'll get I got some information a little bit later, and we'll talk about taxation and uh also bring that up.

Uh debt.

So this is our policies related to debt.

One, we talk about intergenerational fairness.

So that's a long term that you see in academic literature, but really what that means is the people paying the tax should be the ones receiving the benefit.

And the example I would use on that is okay.

Let's say we want to build anything.

We want to build a park, and it's gonna cost 10 million dollars.

So we could say, well, let's start charging, we're gonna implement a little property tax or a little fee or what however we're gonna do it, and we're gonna start charging to save up money so that we can build this 10 million dollar park.

So if I move into the city that year, and I live there for 10 years while the city's collecting this money and I'm paying that fee, and then I move, and then the city builds the park because we've saved up for it, I paid the tax and didn't get to use the park.

Does that make sense?

So sometimes when we're talking about issuing debt, maybe that's part of the reason is to say if I bonded for it and built it now, then the people who are using it would be the same ones paying the tax.

Okay, I'm gonna be the devil's advocate on that.

Never the devil.

Yeah.

So I I can see that, but I also see that it's kind of a pay it forwards mentality, and then if you look at how much we pay in interest rates, like how much interest, millions of dollars, think like, well, if we saved and paid for this one thing and then we save and pay for this other thing, and that sort of thing, and we're saving ourselves interest, we're saving intergenerational debt, we're saving like in a sense.

So there's another options too.

No, there's lots to consider, but I would also point out that the cost of that project probably goes up every year too.

So I think one thing that's fair to compare is what are what's the interest rate versus what's the construction inflation rate too.

And if I can chime in just the dean's point, um, when we've looked at that in the recent past, um, construction inflation is anywhere between seven to ten percent per year, where we can get money at less than three percent.

So mathematically, it it it makes a lot of sense to consider uh debt funding those types of purchases.

Um debt we would only use debt for capital projects, meaning we wouldn't, I don't know of any city that borrows money to operate on, but I put it in there.

Um now counties that would be bad, right?

Like so, not that we're in Chicago, but you you heard about Chicago, they were they were gonna issue, or they did, they maybe they did, but they're gonna issue bonds to pay their pensions, right?

So I'm gonna borrow this money to pay the pensions, but now I've got to come up with money to pay the bonds, which is gonna cost more than the pensions, right?

So I probably I don't know.

Yeah, I think by and large most cities do a really good job with stuff like this, but it's good to put that in right.

It's good to put that in writing.

Um and I just say we're gonna match a revenue stream.

If we're gonna borrow money, we didn't know what revenue stream we're gonna use, right?

Um we're gonna do what needs to be done to maintain a good credit rating.

And I put this in here because bond uh raters read that that we're gonna very be very strict in adhering to all bond covenants, meaning that when we borrow money, a lot of times they'll say, You need I'll use a utility rate bond as an example.

They'll say you need to have certain coverage.

You need to look at that and say, if I take my revenue, subtract out my cash expenses, and there's a ratio that I need to between that number between what my dot bond payment is, and we're gonna be doing we're always gonna do that.

It's probably the main bond covenant you have.

And then there's just a lot of continuing disclosures that like I said before, I spend a lot of time preparing documents that no one reads, and that's another big group of documents that I've spend a couple weeks every December preparing and post to a website that I don't know if anyone ever looks at.

Um investments.

We talked about this a little bit earlier.

We need to adhere to the Utah Money Management Act.

We have most of our money with the PTIF, we have a little bit with Morton Investments.

We have talked with someone who thinks he can help us.

Maybe we put some more money with that.

So we have probably 90 million dollars, PTIF, and 20 million with Morton.

Maybe we could take a little bit of that PTI money and earn a little bit more by using this other.

We haven't we do have uh money on deposit without the bank.

So uh reserves.

This is really just saying we need to have a reserve policy, and why would we use reserves?

We'd have reserves for working capital sufficiency.

I just what I mean by that is we're we get all of our property tax money in December.

We don't we wanna have it's fine to have some money on reserves so that we can kind of borrow from ourselves.

A county is a good example.

Many counties do this because they're in the same thing.

They have a calendar year, they get all of their money right at the end of the year, and so they might issue they might actually issue debt at the first part of the year that's gonna get paid off at the end of the year when they do their uh when they get their money.

Um we would use it for emergency use, things like revenue short by revenue shortfall.

I mean if we had a res our general fund policy, what we looked at is said if we had a uh uh recession like we had in 2009, like a three-year recession, how much should we have on hand that we could weather that storm?

Reserves and general fund are 35% by state law, utilities.

There isn't a state law, but it um I said we've used that 180 days.

We have some of our funds over 180 days, though.

Um there's not really a state law, but we want to look at reserves and utilities.

Uh capital expenditures.

Oh, yeah, that the utility rates and impact fees, I would include in that would cover the cost, full cost of that service, including asset replacement.

So our long-term capital plans, a lot of those are tied up in our impact fee studies.

Anytime you do an impact fee study, you do an impact fee facilities plan that goes out 10 years.

Um that's where probably most of our capital planning is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I'm gonna I have a slide in here on impact fees.

I don't know if we'll even get to it today, but we have I think nine impact fees.

These studies are harder than they should be, harder than they seem.

It takes a lot of people smarter than me to get together and do them.

Um, but we would be wise to refresh those, maybe.

But I would like to maybe see us get to the point where we're maybe doing three.

So every three years they're being one is you lose.

They talked about this the other night, the inflation part that you lose if you're not updating.

The other part is the state auditor's office is gotten uh really looking at these closely to say, hey, are the projects that are in your plan, or that's what you're using for?

And if we're not updating those projects regularly, we can get ourselves into trouble that way.

It seems like too, if we go through it, we can then put into it that every two years we're just gonna raise it based on inflation for each of these.

Can we just you know, um I think I'm trying to remember because it seems like I know when they came the other night, they talked about doing an update every couple of years.

And and I should say it's what I what I'll see them do sometimes is we'll do a full one and then maybe in a two or three years we do just a brush up to it, if that makes sense to just update price update costs.

So we're not going through the whole study, the whole um method of how we calculated everything, looking at traffic counts again, but we're just kind of updating the project.

Yeah, yeah.

They would say that that would work.

So we don't have to go through the whole study.

You just have to show that it's changed based on inflation, and then everything gets updated every two years, and then you do like bigger studies every 10 years or something.

Yeah, something, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, keeping those current is important.

Well, and into like the housing conversation.

So developers often complain like the impact fees that are making housing selling it's like one line item in there, like PL, but yeah, what can I perspective when I wear my city hat in this position I'm uncomfortable lowering impact fees and burden in other taxes across the tax base.

Well, and and what I'd say, especially so road is what is especially the utilities.

So I would think as city councils, you want the impact fee to be as high as possible.

Because if I have if I have infrastructure that needs to be built, anything that's not paid for by impact fees would have to be paid by current rate, right?

So it's when they come at us for the affordability of housing and they're saying it's lower afford, you know, look make things more affordable.

One way that they're coming at it is low impact makes me comfortable because like you said that on current residents.

Yeah.

Right.

And so it's like we're either gonna transfer it on to the growth or we're gonna transfer it on to the current residents.

And I just don't know if this is the line item to attack when we talk about housing affordability, but I know that it's often brought up.

If you pay a if you build a single family home in Lehigh, I'm guessing you're paying 12 to 13,000 in impact fees, which sounds like a lot.

25.

Okay.

Which is a lot, right?

But it's also yeah, but it's also out of a $800,000 home or whatnot.

If I can add to your point, so we had a uh housing affordability a housing affordability workshop.

And one of the major home builders in the state, their president was asked, if we as cities, you know um across the board uniformly decided to cut um impact fees by 10%.

Would you then pass that savings on to the end user?

And they said no.

They said no, we want to make as much money as possible.

So to your point, they're gonna sell it at market rate, and and oftentimes uh impact fees are used as a scapegoat, but really the the issue, and I'm sure each of you have heard this.

The biggest issue on our residents' mind is is growth and the pains associated with growth.

And when we lowered impact fees, now we're saying not only is growth coming, but you're subsidizing it.

And and I think if people understood how that worked, they would be furious.

Yeah, and this might be slightly off topic, and then I'll I'll wrap it up.

But one thing that we could consider as a council, if we're gonna look at affordability, and I think Kim would be maybe not so happy that I said this, is our design standards.

When we put certain material types and design requirements into our standards, the market reacts by raising the cost of those materials because they know no they're required.

Not saying we should remove all standards together, but that is an approach we could take, possibly.

And there's just to do this.

Um, but I I conversation, it just always makes me worried when they talk about well, dropping the impact fee and it just places additional tax burden elsewhere.

And it's just that they're not easy to monitor, and we're doing aspect of infrastructure, and that's what we can't do this week.

You're great.

Can we go back a slide?

I think.

This one?

Yeah, so the utility one.

Yeah.

Sorry.

This one.

Okay.

Right there.

Um utility rates cover full classically.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So question I've had is the new um power generating plants that we're building.

So we'll be through the rates.

Rate payment.

But are those new facilities required for the new growth?

Are they I mean there's probably both in the bulk in the last power.

Remember, we did we did a power impact fee study update not too long ago.

And they didn't so in her calculations, she took what the cost of that generation and she allocated some to new growth and some to existing users.

Okay, thank you.

Last one, financial planning.

Um this is something I'm working on and I'm not quite there yet, but um just especially with our gen with our utility funds, we do five-year projections and we look at that with our general fund.

I'd like to do a little more with that.

This is one where we've talked about multi-year financial planning, capital planning, we do some.

Um seem more related to the impact fees than than others, but something to show that we're not just looking at this year, we're looking at future years.

Okay, so I have one more.

Do you want to break?

We're good.

Okay.

We will be done by I will be done by 4 30.

Well, I can just stop.

I can just stop talking anytime I want.

I I won't be done.

I will quit at 4 30.

So this may actually go pretty fast because we've kind of been talking about some of this already.

Um I wanted to give I put this together a few years ago and many of you seen it before, and so I apologize for that, but I think it's it's just the best way that I've come up with to just explain this process.

Okay, the history of truth and taxation, I think we've talked about all of that.

Trying to get inflation out of property taxes.

And really what I think what's important, well, I say that we changed from a rate base to a revenue base.

So in some ways the rate you pay is not the number that's important because you're backing into the number.

They look and say, here's the to calculate the certified tax rate, here's the revenue that we think represents zero inflation, and then they calculate the taxable value and then just back into the rate.

That makes sense.

Um so certified tax rate, I think we've talked about that.

Excludes.

So the goal is excluding growth that the taxing entity would be the same, receive the same revenue as the previous year.

And any tax increase that any new money for inflation would have to go through the truth and taxation process.

Yes.

I use TNT a lot.

I think that's important.

If you want to charge a rate higher than the survey says and really like this It's not that hard, which is very like a lot of steps in place.

Last year they requirements.

Really the what it all comes down to is you need to have a talking it's a special public have the tax hearing.

It can't be we couldn't have our tax station hearing the same type as district was having their tax affected by two.

So since it's kind of in place to raise property taxes every two years and it was 2022 and 2024, is that scheduled for this year?

Basically based on it would be my histogram there.

Okay.

Okay.

Can I ask the council members that were just from the company?

What was that like when you go was it did it seem more complicated like from the council reach out to I think I was kind of surprised how little the public notices.

I think there was there was some public comments that were made um that were concerned about being able to their their affordability um and this also not having I just think there's not enough information out there with like what can be done like people don't know about media like get like for seniors and that to get their discounted rate or um but I think possibly because it was such a minor increase, I think of like dollars a year in 2022 and I think similar in 2024.

Yeah, something like 12 and maybe like 14, so it was pretty small, but it seems like the school district ones got a lot more because it was a more significant one.

And I know with the school district one, a lot of the complaints and complaints I have too is that um the it doesn't show the debt dropping off.

And so they were doing a lot of trying to educate of like yes, we're doing this incremental cost, but it's not showing the debt, so what you're seeing on your your sheet is not actually what you're going to pay.

So it would be better if it's more detailed information about what it actually the end result but times and sometimes there wasn't anybody there for the whole process.

It's never a bad thing to hear from the public and them to express their views.

So as far as that goes, I don't think it was a problem at all.

But for me personally, I would have liked to look at the budget deeper and for that besides it a tax increase.

Okay, question.

So I'm reading here that increase it.

So typically the budget.

If there's a property tax increase is conflated, but it remains tentative until it's finally adopted in August.

So basically you would do a truth in taxation prior to that type of prior to June.

But in August.

So they get a hearing after they get their tax notices of it increasing.

Okay.

Rachel, we agree with you 100%.

It feels backwards because as we're putting the budget together we're like we don't know if if we're going to be able to do this.

And I think the way we've worked around it is we kind of put almost two budgets together if the tax increase doesn't go through and then if it does.

So yeah your point.

I think there's a bill on that too.

Yeah changing the date could be in favor of that just from a strictly logistical perspective.

What they would on based on last year property.

So the way the calendar works I guess we'll just talk about that in March I need to notify the county if we're considering it's if we don't notify them in March we can't do it later.

So like you need to notify them in March and then if you go ahead April we've adopted 10 in budget may we have a doctor budget.

This is always a challenge we actually don't get our valuations until like you have to have all of your budget basically done before you and there's not I don't know the way around like the county if you think about from the county perspective they they're supposed to about assess every valuation of every property as of January 1st so we don't get also comes down to is we don't get numbers until about the second week in June.

How is any of that accurate when like just Lehigh alone it's like $1 billion worth of accessible value.

So I'm not an assessor for a statistician but I think they get a lot of factorying is just I think it's really hard work and almost impossible.

Yeah but then the state law says it's the value of that property they have to get a value for every person's property.

And so what happened one year was this was up in our Davis County it just so if you think about it if properties are kind of going up gradually it's probably fine but what if one year it's really high and all of a sudden your values went up a lot and so certain parts where their values overall went up high but it was going to their split costing tax increases and so people saw so I think by state lot and we assess everything.

So Dean the June when you receive the tax valuation is that when you know how much the certified tax rate I mean the the the revenue right plus new growth from last year.

That's after that's after we pass the budget usually good okay so this is an example I put together several years ago I'm not saying it's great but it's about the best to try to give an example so I said we're going to have this generic Utah town this town has 10 houses in it.

Every one of those houses is valued at 3000 dollars now your primary resident you get a 45% exemption.

Now your primary resident, you get a 45% exemption.

So if I were to calculate taxes on this, it's point two percent, I take 20,000.

Subtract 45% of that.

And that looks up to 300%.

A town.

Eight of them are secondary residences.

Okay, so the first year we had the 10 homes, they each paid 300.

So let's go to year two.

We still have our 10 home.

Now every property set by 10%.

Now they're all value at $300.

The state would come in and say, okay, your certified tax rate now going down.

So year two comes in.

No, every property owner still pays $330, assuming that the taxing entity accepted the certified tax.

Property owner pays $330.

Tax receipts are $3,000.

This is what we like sales tax.

Sorry about that.

Sales tax doesn't have a treatment tax issue.

Okay, let's go to the next year.

Now we've built two more homes.

Now we have 12.

That's right.

We built two homes.

Now we have 12.

There's the value didn't change.

Since the value didn't change, the certified tax rate.

So now every property still pays $330, but the city gets $660 more.

That's where you get.

Okay, let's look at let's go to year four.

This town we still have 12 homes.

So now we have six homes valued at 300,000, and I have six valued at 297,000.

Overall valuation as a city didn't change, right?

Because half of them went up and half of them went down.

So the certified tax rate doesn't change.

But what happens?

Six of those homeowners taxes are gonna go up.

Six of them then.

So it it doesn't hold the homeowner.

Right?

It just says the taxing entity determines what the taxing entity is not related to two individuals.

And what's what this is a very simple example, but if I looked at this and said, okay, now this is Aspen P school district and Lehigh values went up, then values went up, the same thing would happen.

Or I could say partial values went up.

Now problems would ship.

They do.

So already it's all that against I So I guess I guess this is a very philosophical question, but I mean if you fast forward 50 years and we high, we're fully built out, right?

You start seeing maybe home values, I mean it could go one direction or the other, we don't know, right?

But if if you looked in other counties typically they kind of level out.

So we've talked about this during the campaign and since then increasing our commercial and retail tax base to kind of protect against that.

Um because a city we're we'll hit we're gonna hit a peak, right?

Start to plateau with property tax is probably a good guess.

Um so open to ideas, I know Marlene you probably agree somewhat with that assessment because I know you like commercial tax revenue, but I mean how what can we I guess my question is and we don't have to answer it now is how can we prepare now?

Um because once once you zone land and people break ground, it's that's it, right?

So um, and this is maybe to Rachel's point at the city council meeting.

Do we look at the general plan again?

Do we kind of revise that since we've grown so rapid?

Yeah, you're good.

My point would be um I'm gonna say the quiet part out loud.

Shocker.

Um, but this is why we pursue RDAs to bring all that in.

That's one one reason, not always should, but that's one explanation for an RDA.

Um, and then I think as a council, we just need to decide our priorities.

Having just done a general plan amendment, I'm much more interested in putting funds towards police officers this year, personally.

Um, but that doesn't mean we can't do smaller amendments.

That would just be my two thoughts.

I think you're saying amend the general plan versus read like do the whole thing, right, Emily?

Okay.

So my thing is commercial still has to go over spiable.

We saw that with uh the water's edge, you know, they weren't gonna put commercial in there, they're not gonna put retail in there because they don't have frontage.

So there's only so many places where commercial is going to make sense.

And even along 2100, um, everybody's like, you know, we want all this commercial here.

There's commercial land there.

We've like tried to get things there.

We were in competition to get the other um Costco there and we lost it to Saratoga Springs.

So the commercial land is available, but what are we have to still do things to be able to entice people to come in and build it?

So I think if there was something we're looking at, like, hey, this is zone something else.

We think commercial could be viable here.

Um, I think there's you'd have to be able to re-zone that and try and encourage that is one thing, but it's not like we're hurting for commercial land in the city either.

It's we're we're hurting to be able to, you know, bring in everybody they need to.

On the other hand, you look at the amount of sales tax we have now and know that we're growing, like we're not hurting compared to some of these other cities.

So it's like we're, you know, we're doing well, we're bringing in um car dealerships, which really are, you know, big money j revenues.

So I mean, I think there's a lot more that we can do, but it's also we're miles ahead of some of these other cities too, and we have areas where they can come in.

I wonder what Saratoga's done, because they lowered their property tax recently and they have a large retail space.

I don't know if that contributes.

Maybe larger than us, I'm not sure.

They also raised it a lot.

Maybe they in the past, yeah.

And I talked to Mayor Carnes.

They had and they did, I think two times they drop, they lowered taxes.

They're lower than us now, but they're also growing.

And they're growing about three times our rate right now.

They in Eagle Mountain said they're adding 6,000 residents a year.

So growth is really paying for a lot of stuff too.

But and then of course, where they're built, they're getting all the commercial.

And we, you know, in that west side, because they're getting it, you know, they're in the middle between Eagle Mountain and Lehigh.

So that's where those commercial businesses want to build.

So how do we entice them to come in to our side?

And that's where our residents go shop.

Yes, exactly.

Sorry, this probably a longer conversation than we have time for today, because I think there's a lot of different opinions here.

And um to say that commercial retail won't go into certain places where there is retail and commercial going in.

You know, I kind of question that.

But I do have a kind of off-topic question from this discussion, but what effect would lowering our I guess increasing the residential residential tax exemption have on commercial.

To me, it's gonna shift the burden to commercial, discourage that from being built.

Yeah.

Revenue would stay.

It would impact commercial disproportionately to residential.

Um but it to me, and I think going along with what James said, it's gonna have this long-term effect that I mean, I'm already hearing that it's very difficult to pay for you know, businesses who want to come in that the rent lease is really high.

So I think if we do that shift, it's gonna make it even harder and discourage economic growth, which it, you know, some of us would like to see more of that, you know, to help the residents.

So am I off track here to me?

along with what James said it's gonna have this long-term effect that I mean I'm already hearing that it's very difficult to pay for you know businesses who want to come in that the rent lease is really high so I think if we do that shift it's gonna make it even harder and discourage economic growth which it you know some of us would like to see more of that you know to help the residents so am I off track here to me so they're trying to fix a problem they're gonna create a another problem that's gonna you know make the original problem worse and is that too far off track or if I could speculate Michelle because I agree with you um I don't know if it would so much impact the the retailers because it would be statewide so whether they land an American fork or Saratoga or Lehigh they're still gonna have to deal with that same tax distribution where I think it would really impact though is when you have these big companies considering Utah versus Nevada versus Washington right now they're increasing the tax rate across the whole state so I I and to me that's a bigger kick in the gut you know what if you lose out on on huge companies with jobs and yes well I I already know that I'm I you're right that's good point and I'm I guess I'm thinking more small businesses people I've talked to where they want to do more home occupation because they can't afford to lease a building kind of and I would agree with that too going back to the impact fees idea of reevaluating those you know just to make sure that they're accurate is I that's I don't think it's the worst idea.

I think it's a I think it's smart important that would affect both commercial and residential um I I thought I just mentioned this so you may have noticed I guess in the past five years next to the problem say well if all this is true operative day the first one is especially in 202 so COVID hits a values go down if it didn't go up residential properties went up a lot that year it was like and and that year you could go look and then what possibly shift from you can go look up this product maybe up but you can go look at any of these options and it was that that happened that was a big shift that happened the other thing we had is the basic school levy where basic school levy if I say something wrong in big correct me I don't think that expert on but look at a school property tax rate it's really like four or five that they charge for their operations as capital level that service levy if you have also what is the basic school level that levy is charged by the state or controlled by the state it goes through the school district just part of their rate but that's the primary funding of the W that money is charged as a school district tax school district district doesn't necessarily get it directly distributed all school districts based on their students so in a way to get more money into schools the state blocked that basic school that we instead of so regardless of whatever happened through taxation it wouldn't just so happen there was a lot of appreciation so a lot of you are a lot of recent property you also have things like valuation appeals that comes up if a lot of people valuation and when if their property values go down judgment levies in there we don't really see that here see some cities with that where you have single assessed property they get a judgment where they pay these property taxes and actually we don't have any of this so I haven't but you can actually do a taxation.

Do you happen to know with the school when they froze that the basic levy?

That was for a certain number of years, right?

Is that so is it sunset?

Okay.

Just to say like this year.

It's a circuit.

And so but the school, but the basic school that Ek it was calculation, which is probably more complicated than I'm giving it, but it was a lot.

I think it could go over sets.

So it's state right.

And I put this in here.

This doesn't exactly what I was talking about on the commercial residence yet, but it kind of shows like a 2018 52% of our taxable valuation was commercial.

So you get a big search in commercial value.

There's a lot of demand for it.

So this is what I come up with, and a lot of this is quite estimates.

Um property takes property tax rate today is 1163.

This is really just based on trends.

It's not really based on data because I don't really know how to call up the stuff.

But I'm just saying things happen next year, like on an average of what they've happened.

I think our one stayed with the certified tax rate property tax.

That's 15.6 million.

Just to get an idea of what's right.

Well that would generate a dollar 71 rate would generate less than 90.

Sounds about right, because that's pretty much the only.

That's right.

So that happens.

So I want to look at like boxes.

Yeah, see if we start to like pre-empt.

Yeah, I'm it's more about the principal than they're like and then just see your clear.

I don't support it.

That's not what I would say.

That's good.

I would say all of our houses added up together.

Question for Marlon, can we use that money for our portion of the warming center?

Our contribution to the county warming.

Oh yeah.

So yeah, why don't we save that till next week too?

Okay.

So we'll adjourn the meeting.

Are we done?

Yes, I think so.

Unless you have anything else you'd like to cover.

I have nothing else I'd like to cover.

Does anyone else have anything they'd like to cover?

I gotta go home and pull out a calculator and start to figure things out.

I'll let you all know.

Meetings adjourned.