Well, everyone, welcome to our Mesa City Council uh study session for October October 23rd, 2025.

Uh, for roll call, Councilmember Adams is participating by Zoom.

And uh Miss GoForth will join us shortly.

Before we begin, I'd like to recognize uh Mayor Cordova from YMS, Mexico.

Thank you.

And your staff here, um visiting here, and Mr.

Ballmer and Mr.

Balmer, I know most of us know who you are, but he's their uh guide during this visit.

Appreciate them.

We're honored to have you here during this week, uh Dio de Los Mortos, and we appreciate I know we've been together a number of times throughout the year for that event.

But uh our sister city relationship with Waimas has been ongoing for many, many years, and we appreciate that.

Uh, it's great to see you and have a connection through business like this.

I'm gonna turn over a couple of minutes over to Francisco Hereria, our council member.

I don't know about a couple minutes, but just uh Domasquilla de Calgo in Spaniel, Bienvenidos a la uhdesa de Guaymas, uh La Señora Cordova y el staff de ella, uh Hermana King La Ciudad de Mesa, uh Collace Guaymas and in Mexico in Sonora.

Uh uh most felicitarlos uh in this day uh in this tempo para mejorar nostro vida juntos.

So we need an alter in the Festival del Dia de los Muertos cabalste fin de semana.

So I see Ustan uh Vene Safe Semana Bienvenidos a la Ciudad de Guaymas.

So gracias Caldesa.

Thank you, Councilmember.

Council members, you anything else what to say.

Pardon?

All right, very good.

And thank you for coming all the way to Mesa for the event.

We appreciate you doing that.

Um we're gonna start this morning for item one A is a presentation on a draft to downtown Mesa micromobility on parking plan.

So with that, we have uh Mr.

McVay, Jimmy, and Anthony, the team, the transformation team.

Yeah, sir.

Jack.

Uh all right.

Good morning, Mayor, Council members.

Uh again, Jeff McVay, manager of urban transformation.

Um with me this morning is Jimmy Tracchio.

Today he's wearing his downtown transformation project manager hat.

Um also with us today is Anthony Rodriguez, also urban transformation project manager.

Um, before I hand this over to to Jimmy and Anthony to present the draft plan, I kind of wanted to set the stage and talk about what this plan is and what this plan isn't.

This is intended to be a policy document, a planning document to guide the future um implementation of micromobility and transportation um interventions in the downtown area.

This is not intended to be an engineering study, so there is a you know there's a certain level of detail that is not included in here, and that will require additional study and additional engineering efforts down the road.

So I just wanted to make sure that what as we're presenting this that I set that stage that we all are are thinking about this plan in the right way.

And we'll we'll we'll definitely talk about a little bit more about the implementation later as well.

But with that, I'm gonna hand over to Jimmy to start things off.

Well, thank you for having us here today, Mary Council members.

Um with all the development that downtown is seeing and with the uh the planned growth that we're we're really hoping to uh continue for downtown.

Um we wanted to examine the multimodal transportation options within and connecting to the downtown area.

Um that's especially looking at any last mile connections as well as connections into the adjacent neighborhoods.

Um we also wanted to examine the parking supply and how to best maximize the use of that parking supply, and then uh create a plan that really enhance the visitor resident experience into the downtown area.

Um our project goals uh on this slide really come down to three things access, safety, and comfort, um, and then how do we utilize those to uh add to the downtown vibrancy?

Um parking uh is a key piece, direct uh directing people to the available spaces and even adding spaces into downtown to make it easier for people to park.

Um the multimodal aspect, uh bikes, scooters, pedestrians, riding share, um, again, as I mentioned, those last mile connections, those connections to neighborhoods, but also uh focusing on safety of bike riders and pedestrians and then comfort, things like shade and and making it easier for people to get around.

And then how do we communicate this to the public, you know, through wayfinding systems so they know where they're going and how to get to those parking garages and so forth.

Uh Stantech, our uh consultant on this project, uh had done a number a number of things for uh assessment uh for the plan.

Um they engaged stakeholders and uh residents for input.

We had four stakeholder meetings.

Um those were with groups that were community and neighborhood groups, downtown Mesa Association, uh ASU and Bike Mesa, and then also um developers who have been doing projects in downtown.

There was uh members with the uh council members and the mayor to hear both your uh feelings towards parked parking and micromobility, but also what your constituents and other districts thought as well for uh their views of downtown.

Uh we had two public meetings.

The first one was in the fall 2024.

That was the first engagement with with big groups, um, heard their input on what they would like to see and how they felt about things, and then Stantech came back in March 2025 to present their findings uh and allowed those those attendees to engage again and provide more input.

Uh we had a Mesa Listens Project page that got about 1.2,000 visits uh during its lifetime uh online.

Uh that was uh between September 24th and May 2025.

And then uh finally, the uh we did study session back in March 2025, uh, where the uh the findings and the draft recommendations were presented uh to Merritt Council.

And we're gonna go into existing conditions.

This will look familiar because you've seen a number of these before.

So this is just a quick uh review of of what you saw when Santec was here in March.

Uh the first existing condition that they found were wide roadways uh in downtown.

Um downtown Mesa has uh extremely wide streets for an urban area.

Uh average uh urban roadways are anywhere between 38 to 46 feet wide, whereas in downtown Mesa, they are run between 60 to 90 feet wide.

And then for comparison, country club, which is a major thoroughfare, is 93 feet wide.

So all of our streets, uh a number of our streets are are approaching that level.

Um this adds to driver perception of low risk.

Uh when you have wide open streets, people tend to drive faster.

Um, so that was a large concern for public safety.

Um adding to that width is the uh what Santec identified as unnecessary turn lanes on a lot of the streets, which didn't weren't highly utilized, but also just added to that width and weren't necessary for turns in a number of those areas, and we'll get into that a little more in a bit.

And then there's not a lot of uh bike and bike infrastructure, bike lanes, and things like that to help protect riders, scooter riders uh going down the streets, which as to their perception of safety is you know, am I gonna get hit by a car if I'm just going down the street?

To the right is a uh map that shows the uh the uh level of traffic stress for bicycle riders.

Um we talked with uh Stantec about the color coding on this, and it is a uh uh professional standard for they use for bike planners.

So, with that, blue is the uh all riders feel comfortable in those areas, and you'll see those on on First Avenue there.

That is uh where we have those current bike lanes now that uh have the uh the dividers that separate them from vehicles.

Uh the next level are some of the the slower and more residential streets you'll see in the green.

And then as it continues, the yellow is a little more stressful for bike riders, and the orange is red would be the uh the most challenging for them, basically focused for the more experienced riders.

Uh this is a view of uh comparison that's only a half mile away from each other.

Uh the first one is uh McDonald looking south from Main Street.

Um this is where uh I had mentioned uh the turn lanes.

Uh you see the left turn lane just past the uh the stoplight there.

It goes about 250 feet without anywhere to turn.

There's no entrances into parking lots or anything like that.

It's just a lane that kind of has no purpose.

Um South Ashland.

This is again just south of Main over at the uh El Rancho apartments.

Um you see the the lane width, the the comfort for people crossing the street.

Stantec did find that on McDonald and on most of our streets, the average pedestrian will spend about 30 seconds in the roadway as they're walking across, which 30 seconds doesn't seem like a lot, but if you're in the middle of a road and there's cars that are turning on to it, not necessarily paying attention or moving fast, that you want to make sure that you're gonna be safe as they come through.

Uh another existing condition were long blocks.

Uh typical downtown blocks are 200, 300 feet.

In downtown Mesa, they're between 600 to 700.

A number of those lack shade, uh, which is that comfort uh aspect that I mentioned earlier uh for people walking along those streets.

Um also they're considered uninteresting walks because there's not a lot of engagement.

Jeff Speck, who helped with the uh the assessment here uh in his books identifies four things to make for an interesting and comfortable walk.

It's useful, safe, comfortable, and interesting.

That those are the things people want when they're walking down long areas.

Um so urban professionals, uh what that we things that we do downtown Mesa, the idea is you know, you want uh patios, you want windows with engaging displays and well lit, you want public art, things that will help enhance that, and especially shade, because in Phoenix, especially in our hot months, we need to make sure people can are able to get down that without dehydrating or dying.

Um on the uh right side, we have another map.

This shows the uh the crosswalk inventory in downtown.

Uh you'll see there's gray circles.

Uh those are the existing crosswalks.

Um the orange-ish-pinkish circles are intersections that do not have crosswalks currently.

Um we've been speaking with transportation about uh about this moving forward and how to implement things.

And we know that not every intersection is gonna need a crosswalk.

There's some that just it's not that necessary, but there are a lot that do that could benefit from having that, and we will uh look at that as we move forward.

Um parking, and I know this will be the popular topic.

Uh perceived lack of parking.

Stantec found that we really do not lack parking in downtown.

It really is a perception issue.

Um we have approximately 6,400 spaces in downtown to service people that are available to the public.

They're never more than 50% utilized at any time, those those garages, lots.

Um for maximum optimization should be over 80%.

They did find that at certain points of the day it may get closer to approaching that, like lunchtime late afternoon, it may start approaching it, but it never really hits that threshold.

Um other pieces with that are confusion on parking regulations.

You see some of the pictures up there on some streets, we'll have two to three different time zones uh for parking, which could confuse a driver on one block, where it'll be 30 minute, two hour, one hour.

Um, and they may think they're in a two-hour spot, maybe are actually in 30 minutes.

Um so they recommended uh looking at that.

Uh the messaging on those, uh, you also notice that under the eight to five on those signs, it doesn't say uh Monday through Friday.

We have free parking on weekends and free parking after five.

Uh so any kind of clarification that they will not get ticketed or towed during those those free hours.

We have a question, Jimmy.

Yeah.

What is the distance that they are looking at for parking?

The overall distance, uh, they looked at the full square mile and examining everything, but then they kind of focused it down into kind of it's kind of a blob.

I don't have a rendering of the area that they were in, but it focused more around maintaining.

Someone to expect someone to walk to where they're going.

A couple blocks.

A couple of blocks.

Yeah, do you remember if they had a specific specified uh distance?

Um, mayor counsel, I don't remember if they had a specific distance that they call in the report, but um, as Jimmy mentioned earlier, the way to kind of help alleviate the distance concerns is to make that walk more comfortable, more visually interesting and engaging uh for the public.

Because I I mean again, I I get that it's a perceived lack of parking, but if you have to park farther than you are willing to park, it's still a lack of parking, because then you're not gonna go to where you want to go.

You're just gonna go somewhere else.

And mayor, council member spills very well one of the things that they did find, uh and overall what Jimmy uh has Jimmy described it, is what they found is that we have uh we have a good inventory of parking, and for most parts of the day, they are not getting up to that high level of use.

But what you're saying is it's is absolutely correct.

They also found that we don't have the supply of parking necessarily in the places that we need it the most, and that the highest highest use, the highest when we get to the highest percentage where we're approaching that 85 to 90 percent, is in those parking lots, like the green lot behind Milano's where people have the highest use.

So the your point is well taken, and and and we we have we do have some thoughts on how we can um work on um trying to make that more distant parking more useful so that we are freeing up some of that more um prime parking lot as well.

I mean, it doesn't matter how um interesting or useful the walk is if it's still 110 degrees outside or whatever, right?

Or if you have a bunch of little kids with you, or you know, whatever the reason is why you're not gonna walk a far distance.

So I that's and I specifically ask them if they would make sure they counted parking at on a Friday night or a Saturday night or whatever, too.

Because that seems to be especially when you just literally can't find any parking anywhere near where you're wanting to go.

So I I mean, yeah, I can go park really far, but am I willing to walk so okay, thanks.

Well, I think to add to that point, those that have mobility issues and you have to park further away, that does not make it accessible to the event they're trying to attend.

And I know we'll get into the weeds on some of that because some of our more areas that like the amphitheater or the convention center or the Mesa Arts Center, those that have mobility issues and parking is a crucial issue for them.

All right.

Go ahead, Jimmy.

Thank you.

Um also uh another uh aspect they found were confusing uh or the lack of clear wayfinding.

Um a number of these things have been started to be in address with our work with transportation, but we had uh wayfinding signs that showed the directions to the purple lot green lot.

Public didn't necessarily know what those meant when they saw those.

Um so we have been actively working with transportation to convert, and I think most of them have been converted at this point.

Uh the traffic signs to that universal blue parking and even added some adding signs to uh help folks with that.

Um, and then to also better communicate the hours and the availability with permit spaces and that they're available to people after hours as well.

And then uh the final piece was no dedicated pickup drop-off areas.

Um something they found were ride share uh Ubers and Lyfts that would um basically stop on Main Street to drop people off because there was you know the cars parked in the uh immediate spaces there, um blocking traffic, letting people jump out of a car into the light rail tracks, things like that.

Um so that was the last piece that they they wanted to address.

With that, I'm gonna pass it to Anthony to go forward.

All right.

Um so now we'll be discussing the recommendations in the plan.

Um just a quick overview of the recommendations here.

Um we're gonna be looking at parking reforms, so reframing how park uh excuse me, reframing how drivers park in downtown really comes down to adjusting our parking regulations, the time limits we have and where those time limits are.

Um, and then also modifying our permit system for monthly and also daily um permits, uh, and then also right sizing our road network.

So removal of unnecessary left turn lanes, adjusting the lane widths to help encourage better uh driving habits, um, and then increasing person throughput with micromobility options such as bikes and scooters.

Um then also um improving navigation in downtown through uh through better wayfinding.

So, first off, we'll kind of review how the plan recommends viewing our parking in downtown.

First, we look at street parking.

This is really intended to be kind of a high turnover area.

We want this to be um parking to be accessible for people, so not staying too long, but also able to come shop, eat, and then move on so that more customers can access the businesses downtown.

This is really meant to be the the front door to the businesses down here.

Um and then public off-street parking is really intended for our longer term users, so still um the general public parking, um visiting restaurants and shops, but also for uh downtown employees, um residents um and uh daily permit users, which we'll get into.

Um and then private off-street parking, nothing that we're touching as far as a regulation point.

Um we don't have a ton of uh private parking downtown, um, but it is there that the businesses do use, um, but we will be looking at potential for shared parking agreements.

Um so first recommendation here, um, just looking at on-street public parking first.

Um we're looking at standardizing it with a two and three hour time limit, as you'll see in the map on the left, um, Main Street itself would be have would excuse me, would have a two-hour time limit.

Um, everywhere else between first dive and first street would have a three-hour time limit, and outside those areas would have no time limit.

And this is really just concentrating the time limits in the area where there's the most demand to help encourage tone turnover and parking access, um, but with outside the first where there's uh less demand from the general public and access to main stream, um there will be no time limit in place.

Um and then long-term opportunity long term, um, we'd be looking at price parking.

Um, as Jimmy touched on, right now we don't necessarily have the parking demand that necessitates having paid parking for on-street uh uses.

Um, but we will continue to monitor parking, and if uh the parking inventory gets to the point where it's over 85% occupancy more consistently throughout the week, um, then it's something that we can consider.

Um, and then you know, the recommendation is to contribute the revenue from this uh the price parking into a parking benefit district, which this just gets reinvested back into downtown through beautification projects, facades, um, or other infrastructure improvements that we see as necessary.

Um, and then as far as off-street public parking, so looking at our garages and lots, um, this is intended for our long-term users, as I touched on.

Um, so they will we'll still uh have three hour time limits in these areas, um, but also uh intended use for daily uh passes, uh, which right now we do have that as an option through uh DMA, um, but it's not convenient to purchase.

You have to go down to their office to purchase one, it's the only way to get it.

Um it's not obvious that it is an option.

We don't uh publicize this at all.

Um so we'd be looking at expanding access, whether it's through going to a website, a QR code available at our lots, um, so that people have the option.

And this is something we've already been asked for.

Uh I received an email from business about a month ago asking for the uh ability to for their uh customers to park longer than three hours, um, which is the highest time limit we have um in our uh downtown area right now.

Um so this is something that we definitely see as uh being a positive for uh businesses and the customers.

Um as far as private parking, as I mentioned earlier, um, we'd be looking at opportunities for shared parking agreements.

There aren't a ton of businesses down here who have a lot of parking to spare, um, but some users, such as uh some of the churches to the south and north have uh larger parking lots that throughout most of the week sit empty.

Um so we would want to engage with some of those users to see if they would be open to um you know allowing us to use their parking lots at certain times for public parking.

Um and then another long-term goal is to consider eliminating parking minimums.

Now, this is something we already have in place in our form-based code in the higher intensity transects where you see um kind of uh four, six, and eight-story buildings, they have that as an option uh where there's no parking minimum.

So once again, we'd be something to keep an eye on, and once our downtown gets to the point where it makes sense to start uh reducing or eliminating parking minimums, uh, was something we can explore with planning.

What is the orange and blue?

Yes, excuse me.

So uh the blue are the uh parking uh garages that are owned by the city, and the orange are the actual lots, just lots, yeah.

So these are just the areas that uh Stantech had studied um in the downtown area.

This is not where we would necessarily implement changes, such as uh the convention center parking lot right now.

There's no time limits there.

Uh, don't tell your friends.

Um this is just included, just to know that these are all the areas that we looked at as far as garages and lots.

Um and then once again, eliminating left-turn lanes where they're not needed and replacing with left-turn pockets where needed.

So just uh we included a picture of a left-turn pocket.

So obviously, this doesn't take up the full uh duration of the street.

This is just kind of at key places uh such as intersections that still allow people to make left turns.

Um, and then reducing lane widths where possible.

Um, as we'll touch on in the next slide, uh the plan recommends adding angled parking that we don't currently have in certain areas, um, where the angled parking would be added or where it exists currently, we would maintain a 12-foot wide uh street.

Um where there isn't that, uh, we would have a 10-foot wide street.

Just for comparison, uh streets such as university, just north of downtown, is a 10-foot wide lane.

Um so this is the standard that the C or city already uses in certain areas.

And then, as I mentioned, our favorite, um, adding on-street parking where possible.

Um, so looking at the map on the right, everywhere highlighted in yellow are areas where we could add angled parking um to downtown.

Some already exist in this area, but we would be able to add additional with the cross sections that are um uh provided in the plan.

Um with this, we'd be able to add estimated up to 250 new parking spaces between first street and first AV.

Now, um, as Jeff mentioned at the top, uh transportation uh still has to do a study to figure out uh implementation and how this plan uh recommendations coexist with the existing infrastructure.

So we say up to 250, it's possible it might be less depending on where drive lanes are located, uh excuse me, driveways are located or other existing infrastructure.

Um all these recommendations as far as eliminating left-turn lanes, reducing lane widths, this all maintains our vehicular capacity that we currently have with room for growth.

Most of the streets downtown uh are at um a point where they can actually handle more vehicles than they currently experience on an average day.

Um so by making these changes, we're not impeding traffic, we're not reducing the capacity for uh vehicles to pass through downtown.

Mayor and council just to just to you know hammer that point home a little bit.

I think you this is a this is something you heard uh when transportation was presenting on on Center Street as well.

Um but earlier in one of the earlier slides, we we showed um First Street and the cross section first street, it has an average of 3,500 vehicle trips per day.

A two-way two-lane street with left-turn pockets has the capacity to handle 10,000 vehicles per day.

So while we are recommending these adjustments or the plan is recommending these adjustments, uh I think it's important to note that there is nothing in this plan that would limit the ability for people and cars to get through our downtown.

It actually still provides quite a bit of capacity for increased vehicle trips that through our downtown um going well into the future.

And then with the other adjustments as far as uh limiting left turn lanes and adjusting lane widths, we'd also be able to add micromobility lanes.

Um this gives uh safe, comfortable place for uh cyclists, uh scooter users or whatever uh other forms of micromobility may pop up in the future to ride on our streets comfortably and safely.

Um so on the map on the left, these are the areas um where the plan recommends adding um these uh micromobility lanes.

Um in addition, we'd also be looking at adding micromobility hubs and parking spaces.

Gives a dedicated clear space to leave, you know, uh bike share uh public scooters, um, just so they're not splayed around the place.

Um and then these would be located near transit stops and parking lots and garages, once again to kind of encourage that first mile, last mile connection throughout downtown.

Um and then also adding adding dedicated pickup drop-off areas.

Um these would be located near the the hubs and uh micromobility parking spots once again to help better those connections.

Um downtown Gilbert is a great has a great example of these dedicated pickup drop-off areas.

It could be something as simple as paint, um, or you can um add infrastructure as well to help make it clear where these areas are and then they're able to be established with the ride share companies so that if someone requests a ride or request to come to downtown, it forces them to come to one of these dedicated locations.

And just oh yeah, hold on.

Uh council member Adams just joined us, so council member welcome.

Well, uh thank you.

Uh apologize for my tardiness.

That would be probably probably not in your control.

Um okay, so here we have uh example of a cross section.

Um on top is what we have uh existing for first avenue right now.

Uh with the bike lanes on either side and the protected uh bike lane um with the uh bollards uh uh kind of defining the lane um and the existing left turn lane in the center as well.

Um what's being proposed here, um elimination of left turn lane, maintaining those 12 uh foot drive lanes um for travel uh east-west, and then having angled parking on either side.

Um now with the angled parking versus the kind of um excuse me, the parallel parking that we have that exists today, this helps protect the person uh exiting the vehicle.

They're not exiting right into oncoming traffic, they're uh exiting just into another parking space.

Um but with the parking blocks that would help uh would uh be along the angled parking.

Uh we have this helps create the barrier for the cyclists instead of the ballard.

So cleaner look still offering a good level of protection for cyclists and scooters or whoever may be using those lanes.

All right.

And we'd also be looking at replacing stoplights with stop signs at key intersections.

So these are called out on the map on the right.

Um this uh according to Stan Tech and Jeff Speck's research, this should help improve the flow of traffic in downtown.

Um instead of people waiting at a red light and waiting for it to turn green with no traffic coming the other way, uh, they're able to come to the stop sign, hopefully make a very nice stop, and then proceed on when it's safe.

Um and then also we'd be looking at improving wayfinding.

Um they recommended doing uh downtown wide uh wayfinding and signage study.

Um this would be for uh vehicular uh users, so people coming into downtown, but also for pedestrians as well.

Um and this would be helping guide them to key attractions, two parking spaces so it's clear where the parking is, um so they can get in and out uh more easily and quickly.

Okay, mayor and council, before before uh we move into the implementation section, and another another moment to to make sure I set level set what this plan is and isn't.

Um as we as we go into the implementation, as Jimmy mentioned, we're already working on some of the the parking um reforms and improvements at right now.

Um you'll hear shortly that that we're working with transportation to start working on implementation through striping with their pavement preservation.

But there are several elements of this implementation that's that are going to take further study that are gonna be part of um a capital improvement program that where it's gonna take um some additional um engineering um review, some additional um consideration for the dollars uh that may be required to implement things like the replacement of a street light uh or traffic signal.

That's a you know uh Eric's probably gonna correct me if I'm wrong.

Uh $200,000 for a streetlight somewhere around that.

So that's a that's a capital project, it's not something that we can just go and implement today.

Um later this morning, the public safety committee is gonna hear about e-bikes and e-bikes in the city.

You know, we're gonna have um we need to we need to be thinking about things like that in conjunction with some of these implementations as well.

So we'll we we will we we want this again to be the guiding document that that that are is used as the the um guide for how we implement, but there's going to be detailed studies that will need to be conducted.

Um Anthony mentioned you know things like where our driveways located.

We have cross sections and recommendations for cross sections across the entire downtown, but those are generalized to the to the street, and once we go and actually implement it in the street, that there may be some additional um uh modifications that we have to make just to reflect the existing conditions as well.

So just wanted to set that.

Um so getting in the implementation, um, everything's been organized into short-term, mid-term, and long-term goals, which we have mentioned on the next slide.

Um, but as Jeff really covered, uh, you know, some of these uh goals that we will be able to be implemented um with uh you know without uh much in the way of cost, for example, the daily parking pass rollout.

Like I said, this is something DMA already has available, it's just not obvious or convenient to access.

So it's something we'd be looking at on our end in partnership with DMA to implement uh better.

Um pick up drop-off areas.

Um need to do a little more research on this, but from what I've seen, this is as simple as contacting the rideshare companies to establish those areas and geofence them.

Um but other um other goals here will require um you know additional infrastructure or uh materials to implement, such as restriping plan.

Striping plan is uh something that our transportation department is already working with us on, um, but to implement such as the angled parking uh and the parking blocks necessary.

Um there will be additional costs for the um formalizing bicycle micromobility parking locations.

Um once again could be something as simple as paint or uh could be uh bike racks or other infrastructure to help uh lock up these items too.

Um and then we'd be looking at uh the wayfinding and navigation study, uh moving into midterm goals.

This is something our uh planning and development development services department is already looking into at a citywide level.

Um, so we'd be working with them on the downtown piece for that.

Um and then continuing to monitor uh permit demand for on uh for expansion to other off-street lots and garages.

Um this is something that's really done, uh will be done by our offices uh to assess.

Um and then uh other projects here will require a higher level of uh capital investment and um improvement, such as removing the curb extensions on South McDonald's, take an ab, and this is really just to better make those bice safe bicycle and uh micromobility connections, also extending connections through MLK Boulevard and Second Avenue.

Obviously, we have some buildings in the way right now, um, so that would require some level of cost for us to implement.

And then lastly, just the long-term goals of establishing uh paid parking and a uh parking benefit district, and then uh long term as well, rebuilding curb lines across downtown.

Um, and this is really recommended just to once again make those safer bicycle connections.

Uh right now, some of our curbs kind of zig in and out because of the parking um that's established along them.

Uh so long term we would want to look at re-establishing where our curbs are to help still provide parking, but also better connections and safer uh areas for bikes and scooters and other forms of micromobility to travel.

Next steps.

Um this will come to you all on November 17th for adoption.

Um, and then uh assuming you all adopt it, um, I guess regardless, uh our transportation department will begin implementation of their uh uh mill and overlay program in downtown.

Um, but we would also be looking at the strip implementation of the striping plan recommended here.

And with that, we're happy to discuss and take any questions.

Great.

It's our turn.

Yeah.

Council who wants to go first.

Sure, sure.

Um, of course, I'm in support of the plan and have been um you know pushed on the micromobility study to be done.

Um it was done by Stantec, uh, which uh Jeff Speck has uh kind of bagged about walkability, um, which downtowns are absolutely a necessity in order to live, work um, and enjoy a downtown.

You want to be very walkable.

So what I appreciate about that is why I was pushing for the study and looking at it and living downtown.

When I moved here in 2009, it was pretty quiet.

I walked and biked everywhere.

And then as we grow in with density, I find myself more walking and not biking, because I'm not confident about the biking here.

And I know with what we haven't planned, our density is gonna at least double, if not more.

We know Cul-de-sac has a thousand units, Edge, which is going to start construction hopefully soon is you know 300 units.

I mean, that if you think about the number of people and just that, um, let alone we're just opening, opening the residences, and we have some others on the south side and some other things in plan.

The density is going to grow tremendously in downtown.

And the one thing I hear from people is I'd like it more comfortable to walk and bike in downtown.

And as we have more people, if we can have the streets, the people who live here are engaged to want to walk or bike because they feel safe and comfortable, it's interesting.

Um, I should go through the Jeff Speck things.

Um, that is gonna cut down on our congestion.

And it's gonna make a better community where we get to know each other.

That's how I got to know my community is walking and biking everywhere.

We don't have a lot of green space in downtown, lack of green space, and so our streets, um, how we use them on walking and biking and interacting is our social fabric of downtown and makes it very enjoyable.

So if we can move, especially the people who are living downtown into this environment and not getting into your car because you don't want to, um, this is really going to enhance downtown and free it up for people who are maybe driving in to be able to find that parking space and not feel congestion here because of how we already exist here.

Um, and I know people who also want a pathway from the canal into downtown be to become a destination for people to experience that life.

You know, in our suburban villages, uh we don't always have that ex option to be able to walk from place to place to have dinner, have a drink, go see a show, you know, see a rate retailer, all these options within short distances, and so this becomes very, very important.

Um pedestrian safety, we have an initiative within this city of Mesa.

Um one third of all our road fatalities, traffic fatalities, one third are pedestrians and bikes.

So in an area that's gonna have a lot of people and has a lot of businesses, we need to minimize that.

Um I have a huge concern, and two-thirds, if you count in motorcycles, too with motorcycles, two-thirds of our fatalities are in that area of pedestrians, bikes, and motorcycles.

And the reasons is people on cars don't see pedestrians, they don't see bicyclists, they don't see motorcycles.

Um being in a downtown environment, hopefully we slow down a little bit, have wonderful streets, and pedestrians feel safe, and there's clearly marked areas to so that we can have mobility for all users.

This isn't anything against cars.

There's nothing that is gonna change for cars.

In fact, we're adding over 200, 240, whatever parking spaces to have more access.

So this is just adding more mobility in our downtown.

Walking, biking, scooters, um autonomous shuttles will become a thing in the future.

It's already starting starting right now, but they expect it to be like a dominant form of transportation by 2040.

If I'm silly, I'll let you know how that works out.

Um-de-sac is looking, you know, they have residents who have that commitment of reducing their car dependency or car ownership, and they'll have like a car share.

You just rent the car for the number of hours you need it.

So um, anyway, having streets that really embrace people is wise for the safety, for the quality of life, and there is an economic development part of it.

The businesses that want people on the streets.

They want people walking by their business, they want people biking by their business.

It is where community, the social fabric and um things happen.

When you drive by, you just go to where you're going, and then you you do whatever, you have lunch, whatever, and then you drive out.

When you're walking, you're like, well, I should stop by there.

Oh, I didn't know this place was there.

Um so it really is to that economic fabric of a downtown for sure.

Um it's just mobility for all ages and abilities.

If you're eight years old or 88 years old, you can get around um within an area and um not have if you don't have a car, about a third of our uh of um our residents don't have a car, whether they choose to or they they can't drive, maybe it's their age, maybe it's their ability.

So it's just broadening the choices for all people to have a mobility option, and doing that in a downtown just makes sense.

Thanks.

Thank you, council member.

Mr.

Redia.

I think uh overall support the the plan.

Um couple items.

Uh it does seem we've asked around wayfinding for years now, signage, and it doesn't seem it got like it improved a lot.

Um and so I do feel there is some measures that we can do a lot better on signage around parking, the I I still confuse where we can park um when we're in downtown.

So I think that's one comment.

And then on the um on the long-term vision of parking, uh what do you call it?

Parking fees or or paid parking plan.

I I think I don't know if as we as we think about that, looking at other communities.

I I uh I am hesitant on paid parking in the model of adding meters or you just I I I just curious on kind of the feedback of other downtowns that have gone into these heavy paid parking models.

I I feel like there's a little like the nickel and dime on the residents that come in, and you know, you get sighted if you miss by two minutes and just the frustrations that I think folks have uh on that kind of model.

Um so as we develop some sort of paid parking um district, like what's that look like and how that feedback from uh residents I understand we you know it's uh it's a revenue that will go into the the district uh and improve upon, but I also feel there is uh there's a tinge of just uh that nickel and dime piece of in and I'm not sure as we gr as we're growing if that type of model makes sense for us in uh in this type of downtown, right?

So just uh uh uh cautious kind of optimistic piece, though the rest of the information, you know, the stop signs, I I think that's that's key and looking at how do we eliminate some of these these lights where it is there's sometimes there's nobody, right?

Like for a minute and you're like just waiting.

So uh those kinds of things are I think is smart to look at and implement and uh and look forward to seeing that micromobility piece, how do you again how do you lead people to utilize these options, right?

I think that's a the biggest thing for us in in this downtown.

Mayor, councilmember thank you.

Um as Jimmy noted, we we have worked with transportation and we have standardized the the parking um directional signs, um universal blue versus multiple colors that are confusing to everybody but the people who supply permits.

But um your point on overall wayfinding, you know, if you're at the parking lot, there's a there's a sign with a blue P pointing into the parking lot, but what how are we directing people to that parking lot in the first place?

So we are um looking at what is the broader wayfinding solution.

That is a that is a a big ticket item.

It is and it is something that's going to take a and another another study.

Wayfinding in general is is something that you generally would um put together an overall plan and it would come with the uh you know a moderate capital cost in in order to implement.

I think the nice thing is that as put one of our um future priorities, the the planning department is taking the lead on a wayfinding program for the overall city, and we're gonna be able to to piggyback on that program to create something that is um specific to downtown, but fits within an overall um program for the city and hopefully an overall brand and theme as well.

Um related to the paid parking.

We're a long ways away from even being able to justify paid parking.

If we tried to implement paid parking today, we'd actually cause harm to the downtown and it would drive people away from coming here.

So councilmember, uh you can be assured that um any discussion, uh any any time when should the time come that we get to the level of uh parking intensity that we need to be considering paid paid parking, that's gonna be a pretty significant pretty significant conversation um with not only our our our businesses, our stakeholders, but also with with the council in place at time because that those decisions don't those those decisions don't come lightly.

Um cities that implement paid parking when they first implement those don't go uh those are those are those are heavy lifts and they they often come with growing pain, so we aren't gonna go into anything like that very lightly.

Mayor, council member, I would I would just add too on on Jeff as to Jeff's point.

Um, first of all, it is years off before we would envision anything like that.

But secondly, it would be to change behavior um where we're seeing the issue.

If if there's a parking problem, let's say along Main Street, there may be pay parking implemented eventually along Main Street itself, but not in the in the lot.

So it would be a phased approach.

It wouldn't just be a flip the switch and everything that was previously free became parking.

Because again, it's not about the revenue, it's about to change the behavior so that people have access to those restaurants and those and those amenities and those businesses in downtown, and so um it it that would be the primary driving force of that.

Good.

Let's pick up uh council member Adams.

He's council member, you're up.

Well, thank you.

Um just a couple of comments.

Uh I'm glad to hear that we're uh quite a ways off from getting serious about paid parking, because um I I can see where it may be something we would want to consider down the road, but from a standpoint, if if what we're trying to achieve here is to get more people to come downtown and shop and eat and use entertainment venues.

Um I think the easier the better.

And uh sometimes paid parking, I think is viewed in the same light as credit card surcharges.

It's a nickel dime kind of perception on the part of the consumer.

So I'm glad to hear that we're a ways off from that, and we're gonna look at that really hard before we go anywhere with it.

The other comment I have is again uh with respect to parking.

I was contacted by a constituent who reached out to me and asked why he was ticketed for parking for backing into his parking space.

And he went on to give me a great long narrative about who he contacted at PD and various other places, and he found that very few people really either this is I'm taking his word, either knew about it or knew why.

So, and I'm not questioning, I'm sure there's a good reason if there is an ordinance, he even gave me the ordinance number, but I think we just need to be real clear across all departments about why we have our various regulations and signage and various things so that there isn't confusion like that.

And um I I just think we need to be real clear on our parking.

And I'm glad to hear we've common size the signage, because I I found it confusing in the past too.

So I think uh my comment is consistency and clarity will go a long way.

Thank you.

Um thank you, Mayor, Councilmember Adams.

Uh I I failed to address this one.

Councilmember Haredi asked the question as well.

It's that arrival signage that uh is the next phase that we need to work on once you've arrived to a parking lot.

What are the rules of that parking lot?

So that the it is clear to people that that that back end parking, because we only have license plates on our the rear of our vehicles, that's the reason that the ordinance is back in parking only.

Um but we don't necessarily you uh as your uh constituent um um told you is that most people the way they find that out is through a warning or a ticket.

Um and so we can do a better job of making sure that people know what the rules are as they arrive into the parking lot.

Ms.

Spielsberry.

Um to to Councilmember Heredia's point, I do feel like um we've been talking about this for quite a while at this point.

Like I feel like we've been talking about making signage clearer at parking lots for a couple of years at least.

So I'm just and you mentioned that maybe it would take some capital to do it, but signage can't be that expensive.

I don't know.

I I'm just wondering why we haven't done more.

I know there's been some attempts at it, but uh Mayor, Councilmember Spillsbury I'm gonna we have um made uh uh attempts on that arrival signage and and the challenge that we are facing is um by the time that we have created a sign that actually spells out the rules.

We've created a sign that nobody's gonna read as they're driving into a parking lot because it's it's a page of do not back into your parking lot.

Spaces are available, eight or permits eight to five free money.

And so we are trying to find the right way to to get to display that message and where is the right way to work right place to place those so that they are gonna be effective.

Um we are uh we you're you are correct.

We are struggling to find and implement that.

But we are it will we will continue to put that as a priority.

It's the easiest of ours at the lowest, it's the lowest hanging fruit that we can attack uh achieve.

And from a cost perspective, those signs are not the expensive signs.

When we talk about costs for wayfinding, it's those more substantial signs that are meant more about pedestrian wayfinding.

I mean, I there has to be like other cities that have figured this out.

I mean, like right, like other places have complicated parking structures, and so I mean, we all park in places all the time where we see signs.

So I I don't know.

I'm I'm just I'm pushing you a little bit on that because I feel like we have been asking for this for a while.

I'm super confused when I come to downtown where I can park and where I can't.

So part part of there's been delays all because I pushed for the study for a very long time, and we finally got the study, and now we're six months into the study.

Um, and trying to make that now we've put a the blue parking signs, and there has been some headway, but I think to do an overhaul, we have to know what is our uniformity across the city, and that we agree to that.

And unfortunately, it takes it's taken into this time for to get to council and how we see mobility in our downtown.

I always want things to move faster.

We know this, so um Mayor, Councilmember Spielsbury, I'm not making a make any excuses.

We we will we should have those in place and we will we will make that a priority.

So the next time we're up here talking to you about parking, hopefully uh you aren't able to ask that question.

Okay, perfect.

Um I'll hold you to it.

So the uh the I guess just the main question I have um when we met earlier this week, you know, we talked about having um downtown Mesa Association involved and like what what are we doing so that we're not impacting businesses negatively.

And we, you know, we've talked about that, so I appreciate that there'll be a voice in this.

Um the if this is just policy level, what types of things will come back to us to approve?

What what can you do without having to come for council approval and which types of projects do you have will we get to see and say, yeah, that looks good for that road?

Or you know, are are we gonna be specific in the weeds on any of this at a council level?

Mayor, um uh councilmember spillsbury, uh, I'll and I'll invite Eric to join me if he wants to, if I don't if I don't answer this question correct well.

But what what we are intending to do um implement um starting immediately if with council support is that striking plan as part of the pavement preservation, the mill and replace of downtown streets.

We would start in the as in lanes will be changing.

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah, so the cross sections that are as part of this report is part of our recommendation, we would be implementing those cross sections over the next three to four years as the pavement preservation plan is implemented.

We our intent is to start in the northwest quadrant of downtown, meaning the uh university, uh country club and university south and east, um, with those mill and replace, we would implement the striping plans and the cross sections that you see in the plan.

Anything beyond that um that would move curbs that would change the traffic signals um that would require um us to um um well not necessarily just move curves, but if from a crosswalk perspective, there's spots where crosswalks are needed, but there isn't a receiving ramp.

You would have to do some type of um uh significant infrastructure improvement.

Anything that would require a capital investment will be part of a broader conversation with transportation as they build a uh their next uh bond package.

So I think that you know, beyond the striping plan, um pretty much um everything um will probably have a uh a time in front of council again.

So even removing the the stoplights would have to be as a capital.

But and and this is just in your you already have a schedule, and so just as your schedule goes, or any of that being um moved up or anything.

Uh mayor, council member spillsbury, we we do have a schedule.

Um we talked about when we first talked about doing a mill and overlay for the entire downtown.

Um it was discussed whether we do it in a year or four years, and I think a year would be really disruptive to to the downtown and would probably be our entire program for the year.

So we've decided that it's gonna be a four-year program, and we'll essentially look at you know, four quadrants of downtown, and we're gonna start in in the northwest and and go counterclockwise to to do all that.

That also that means the quadrant where Cul-de-sac is is going to be the last quadrant that we do, and hopefully three years from now we have a better idea of what's going in there and and what we need to do and what they're they're they're going to do.

So I I think I I know it sounds like a long time, but a a four-year program for a square mile is uh it's the best of getting it done quickly, but still not you know disrupting the entire downtown.

And is is the striping and mill and overlay process it's that's not substantial enough that if we have to rip it up again because we then have changed the road and put in what I mean, you know what I like if we're gonna or is just none of that gonna happen in the next four years.

Well, so we're not gonna touch center street because we know we we possibly have a project there in the next four years.

I um there there are other blocks that that we're finding that we're going to have to decide what to do.

Um, you know, Hibbert and McDonald are are two streets that that come to mind where we have diagonal pull-in parking and we have curb bump-outs right now.

Um to really implement this plan, we have to change those curb lines.

But that that's a that's a major discussion that we're gonna have to have with um the business owners and um and and you and so the those will have to come forward uh at a later date.

Sounds really complicated.

Okay.

Downtown's always are.

Yeah, okay.

Just go forth.

Um yeah, I appreciate that we that you all did the micro mobility study.

This is great.

Um I'm Jen and I pushed for you to include Jeff Speck.

I mean, he is the expert on walkability, the guru, the best in the business here in I think the U.S.

I think that's pretty much universally known, and I'm I'm so thankful that you all included him.

Um I think that we can all agree that we've we've our goal is to have a vibrant downtown, and that is I think as well universally defined as having people in your downtown, walking, um and and exchanging and and creating economic activity.

It's not a mall, it's not where people drive in and they drive out.

We want people there 24-7.

And if we have people there 24-7, we should make sure that we um make it a place they want to be, they want to move in.

And I and so I think we we go to great, I think lengths to make sure that we when um we look at transportation and building in a new community that that we really that we create that we preserve that community's character and we look out for the people that live there when it comes to adding traffic, when you add people and things like that.

And so I'd like to make sure, and and Jen Jen touched on this, that we really do focus on the people that actually live in downtown and near downtown and make sure it's a great place, especially when we're out there really encouraging development and people to come and live in our downtown, that we make sure it's a place that that is comfortable to walk around.

Because as Jen said, if you live down here, we want you walking around.

We don't want you jumping in your car and driving a block.

So um, I think it that's important to keep in mind, and I think all these improvements will do that.

Again, your downtown to be successful has to draw people outside, but I think you have to start and prioritize the people that actually live here, work here, and live near your downtown.

So I have the um, I guess on the on these short-term goals, I guess I would ask for you know, some time frames, um, you know, when can we expect some of this?

What are some of the time lines?

And then I would just gonna I'm gonna beat this dead horse too.

The wayfinding, the signage.

I'm not talking about big expensive signage when you roll into downtown, but if if one of our highest um identified problems with parking, is that it's a perception issue, that's what we should fix first.

And to me, that's signage.

So why that's not a number one, I'm a I'm a bit confused.

And so I'm I'm gonna be a little bit more pushy than Julie.

Like I to me, that should be a number one.

We should fix that perception issue.

Because and you hear about it from people everywhere, even way out in my district when they come in.

That's what they talk about, is the parking issue.

So I know you're doing some work on it, but I to me, I would like to see it the top priority and get completed.

Uh that that's my two cents.

How the rest of you all feel and Mayor Customer go forth.

My commitment to you is that when we come back, um our intent is to bring this back November 17th, that we will have uh some timelines attached to the part, particularly the parking improvement um implementation uh so that we can share with that with you when we can have that work, and we'll work with Eric and his team on how we can get the signage implemented.

Also, um I will note that um Jimmy and wearing his other hat is going to also be part of our solution.

Um we had and talked talked about working with DMA and we had begun the discussion with DMA about a campaign as well.

You know, there's a lot that we can do from not only wayfinding but from a marketing perspective to sell tell people you know parking is easy and start giving the message out there to help people outside of the downtown outside of the users that know what how do they park in downtown, how how they can engage and how it is um simpler so that when the but that has to be combined with once they get here, then we have to show it to them that they arrive here and it is simple.

So we will come back and we'll have a uh uh a schedule for you.

Well, very good.

Uh you made me take a bunch of notes here, so I have to ask a lot of them.

Jimmy, how many parking spaces did you say were in downtown area?

6400 approximately.

And how many of those are permitted?

That's a good question.

Jeff.

Because there's all these different lots, you know, red, green, orange, uh, et cetera, et cetera.

And Mayor, I I don't have the exact number.

But I'd be nice to know that.

It is it is a majority of those spaces.

Uh so we're gonna run that because you know, I listened to Harry's school over here, the seniors who choose to drive to school, which they have to.

There's not enough parking for students here.

Uh then I was polling some of the ASU mix students that come to ASU Mix, and a large percentage of them drive as well, and they're parking in the library parking lot because it's free parking, I I expect, or is it a as a time limited?

Some of them haven't had free parking in the library um as of late.

And they probably backed in and got a ticket or more.

Um I I I guess think about that.

That that was and I'm gonna beat the horse a little bit more.

I have a horse, so I I don't beat it.

But uh, you know, signage is critical.

Wherever you travel, you go to downtown.

I I don't use Gilbert as an example.

There's free parking.

You there's parking spaces where people can go and then walk a block or block and a half to their favorite place to eat or have an experience at the Hall Theater, Hale Theater.

And and we don't have that.

I don't I don't see anywhere anywhere that vites free parking.

Now, what I was really excited about, uh, like over the last three or four years, Julie, to your point, we've been talking about parking in downtown Mesa.

But I remember uh our IT group, Mr.

Scott Kahn talking about beta testing, allowing AI to integrate into say what parking spaces are available within our garages.

And so you had on the map, uh, you know, there's Centennial, Sarine, uh, Pepper Place too on Pepper Place.

We have surface parking at the northwest corner, McDonald and uh First Street.

But nowhere it really says where you can free park.

And I think that's an important concept using integrating technology into our parking apps because if a person puts in, I think Scott told me this, that if they put in an address, they want to go eat at a an eatery here, it says what parking is available for them during that time.

And I think we should address and have free parking.

Um again, the difference I just drove through the centennial garage this morning coming here and it was empty.

But all the signs in there said uh red permit parking or a small amount of uh parking available for two hours.

We gotta we gotta make that more accessible for public parking.

And you know, whenever you travel in the world, there's signage there that says parking, you know, it has a P and that's blue, and it says so parking's available.

Uh just putting that out there uh because of the Heritage School.

Uh I know some parents have expressed uh uh parking as well as drop-off times because they wait for the light here to change because of the light rail.

But the cars go clear back to the post office lined up, dropping students off.

And Jeff, I think you experience that when you come to work.

Um around the Mesa Arts Center on the south side there, the church parking lot, they're very innovative.

They're charging for parking if the parking lot is full for MACUVANC, five or ten dollars to car to park in the parking lot.

So it'd be great to integrate with uh other uh parking availability.

And even across from the post, uh, I know one of the uh property owners have had to uh towed from her parking lot, and I saw a lot of displeasure with that recently.

Uh I was down here in downtown.

Um, I'm down here every day pretty much, and the Afit Theater, there was a concert going on with uh two weeks ago, and the cars trying to park, the convention center was completely full, on-street parking was completely full, and people were trying to use the MLK street to get into the north uh parking lot there from Centennial as well as Center Street, and it was very congested, and it was nice to have two lanes there because people would have blocked the road trying to get into the parking lot.

So, you know, just keep keep that in mind as as we we go through through uh the uh deciding on how we uh create uh more parking on Center Street, especially for uh the convention center and amphitheater.

I know we had the mayor's youth committee down here uh probably about two weeks ago, and five students got tickets because they were parked, you know, they don't know where to park.

It's not rarely describable, and they parked across the street at 55 North Center, and the little blue car caught them, and uh so we had to resolve that.

I think you know, the parking there on across from the ideal museum, the public parking there, there's just a little A-frame there that says public parking available or whatever it says.

So uh I think we can do better with that.

And uh overall, I like the whole concept uh how moving forward, maybe reducing street lights to stop signs to help move the flow of traffic in our community.

But uh it'll be a work in progress over a period of time, and appreciate uh all the hard work.

I think that's all the notes I have.

Is that enough for you?

Yes, Mayor.

No, uh this is a great conversation.

And Mayor, one of the things that we haven't discussed and that we will need to discuss at some point, um, something that you brought up.

Uh Centennial is a great example, and it's a great example of Councilmember Spillsbury's point as well, is that we did we we purchased the Hibbert Garage, we did the improvements there, and we moved a lot of our city employees over there.

And we created an entire first floor of the pepper garage that's now available to the public from a time limit perspective, and we created a centennial garage that is next to next to empty now because we moved all of our employees out of there.

Um while the signs may not have changed yet, um even if the signs had changed, that garage would probably be empty if you drove through it today because it's just not in a place that is is convenient to where people need to park.

So the the there is going to be a point, I think, where we have to have this broader discussion of where um of supply and where is supply, and do we need to add supply?

Um Heritage Academy and that tan lot behind the Heritage Academy is a great example.

Um it is, I think uh 110-ish spaces, of which probably 20 or so are not permit spaces.

Um that's a high demand parking lot, but if we take away the permit spaces, then we are impacting the businesses and their employees and their ability to park as well.

So the question of supply does come in at some point, and I do think that that there is uh going to be a time where we we probably do have to have come back and have that broader discussion about supply and whether or not we need to be thinking about additional inventory in our downtown in in more of an appropriate area.

Well, I'll just leave it at that.

Um council.

Otherwise, uh I'll add on one thing.

This is a big discussion, especially for those who live in downtown or have businesses here.

So on Monday, I just want to put out that we're having um hosting a public meeting at the post, 6 to 7 p.m.

to engage and talk a little bit deeper about you know this proposed plan and to hear the feedback and want to encourage everybody to show who, especially if you live near or in downtown, have a business is the largest impact to you.

Of course, we care about other opinions as well.

But certainly um want to encourage the people that um are directly impacted from every day.

So um six to seven on on Monday the 27th at the post, which is uh 26 North McDonald.

All right, well, thank you.

Jeff Oh, Mr.

Adams here.

Yeah, uh yeah, just a quick comment.

I I think it would be really important that we make sure that the meeting that council member Duff just mentioned is as widely publicized as possible.

Because not everyone watches council meetings, so uh I think that is important.

I agree that uh the people who live and work downtown are most directly impacted.

So I hope we've done a real good job of making sure that uh the folks most uh uh closely affected have been notified of that meeting.

Very good.

Thank you for your notice.

Mayor Councilman Adams, I just want to add to that.

Um Downtown Maso Association is distributing the flyers to the business community downtown.

Um they're also including it into an email that's going out to the people who received up their list, as well as posting on social media, so in order to help get the word out about it.

So glad to hear it.

In addition, if you during the public outreach part of the development of the of the plan or the study, um if you signed up um with your email, we are we are including anybody that signed up as part of the engagement in that notification as well.

Very good.

Thank you, Jeff, Jimmy and Anthony, Eric.

Next, we'll hear item one B presentation on Mesa's program and budget for parks and recreation.

Andrea, are you all by yourself?

No, Mayor.

Good morning.

I'm by myself right now, but my whole team is here so that we can answer your questions as they come up.

All right, Mayor, Council, Andrea Moore, Director for Parks Recreation and Community Facilities.

And I have my executive team here with me.

Uh Amy Manis, Roger Singleton, Haley Smith, and Brandon Erno to help answer questions.

So we're back to talk about more of the bigger picture of what our department does for our community, focusing on our recreation side of our department.

So just a really broad look at our divisions.

Uh the ones that I have up here in color are the ones that we're gonna take a deeper dive in talking about what our programs and facilities are that we're covering with the in uh fiscal year 25, what was uh $54 million budget for the whole department.

And uh in addition to the ones that we're gonna talk about, we're gonna have uh deep discussion right now about our commercial facilities, our planning development functions, which are capital and infrastructure replacement programs, and then our support services in our um admin side.

So we'll focus on our operations, which is park maintenance, basin maintenance, sports fields, pool maintenance, uh our recreation programming, and uh then two of our commercial facilities functions that are funded by the general fund in the post and the special events office.

Overall in fiscal year 25, we had 209 full-time positions and 112 part-time positions.

Part-time positions are filled by over 700 staff, and so altogether our department has about 900 people.

Uh it fluctuates by season as our summer programs start and end with seasonal positions.

Our 54 million dollar operating budget uh was expenditure, sorry, in fiscal year 25.

We had about 16 million dollars in revenue across the board, and we're gonna take a look at where that revenue came from.

And just for perspective, uh we talked to you in May twice when we were looking at our fiscal year 26 budget.

And so where we landed with this year uh is uh 57.8 million dollar budget, about 35 million of that is in general fund.

And when we started talking to you uh when we were looking at the reduction in budget, the increases in fees, uh our proposed budget was at 55 million, and based on your recommendations and requests to keep things pretty much as status quo for the year, we landed at, like I said, about 57.8 million.

So taking a look at the different types of programs that we have across the board, uh again focusing on recreation.

We are touching pretty much every single one of the council priorities, strategic priorities of placemaking, community health and safety, workforce development, youth development, economic development, sustainability.

So as I go through these, the the driving force between behind each of these programs is to continue to meet council strategic priorities.

Because overall, we do still feel that we need to reduce what our budget is, what our impact is on the general fund, and looking for some feedback about what your priorities are and in fee structure, in offerings for the community, and participation, which groups are benefiting from, which programs that are subsidized by the general fund, which are not, and when we have fees for use, for rentals, things like that, what that looks like in terms of supporting our overall goal of serving multiple parts of our community.

So adaptive programming, just to start out, I'm gonna go through the types of programs that are in each of our recreation areas.

So adaptive programming is inclusive requests for folks that need additional assistance participating in our mainstream programs as well as adaptive programming like Special Olympics, social programs, camp fiesta, which is a summer camp specifically for folks with additional needs for support.

Then we have our youth athletics program.

So these are both programs that the city is offering, like soccer, basketball, general play ball, which is an introduction to multiple sports, one each week, and then also renting our fields to our affiliated youth groups.

So affiliated youth groups, we have that category across multiple parts of our department, and so those are groups that work with us to qualify for additional subsidized use of our facilities based on having majority of their participants be Mesa residents and having no cut programming.

So they are not the club tier of type of sports that you have to qualify for.

Those are our three recreation centers that are in lower-income parts of town.

It's Jefferson, Webster, and Eagles.

So those collectively we call the Tri-Centers.

We have our Red Mountain Center.

We manage the use at Broadway Recreation Center and Washington Activity Center with tenant partners there.

And so we have after-school programming at our Tri-Centers, we have summer camps that are at our centers as well as school locations and when school's off, and special interest classes, teen nights, open gym, those types of things.

Commercial operations that we're not going to talk too much about today, other than to mention that we have the cemetery, the Mesa Cemetery that we manage, the convention center, and the amphitheater.

And to say that the revenue that comes in from those facilities does help support the operations there, as well as reducing the general fund impact for those functions in our department.

The special events office and the post events, events at the post are general fund functions, and so those are opportunities we provide for the community and to support other departments for placemaking in Mesa.

Our aquatics program is very successful with our nine pools and the swim lessons, the public swim, and a very large percent percentage of use in the throughout the year, especially at Keno and Skyline for our affiliated youth groups doing club swim programs, uh, dive, the uh water polo, things like that, synchronized swim, as well as adult teams like Master Swim.

Outdoor and engagement programs, so our fun and fit program is included in that.

So that's our mobile recreation that we bring, especially to the downtown Mesa Parks to help introduce and help people feel comfortable coming into the parks to play, as well as our more recreation unit that launched last year with uh environmental education programming.

We bring that around.

Uh there's the basins and parks and maintenance of those facilities, so they're open for drop-in use and community events, uh, community fishing, Scorpion Heights are volunteers.

Um anything that we're doing to engage the community in outdoor recreation.

So overall, just a broad variety of programming that's provided to Mesa community.

That's all taking a look at some of our baseline information of um the majority of our budget goes into park basin sports field pool maintenance functions.

And so taking a look at what we're providing to take care of our assets for long-term health of the facilities.

We have about 209 parks and basins, uh, about 65 of those have playgrounds in them, so just shy of 1800 acres in those built environments for community fishing lakes, so those are stocked in partnership with Arizona Game and Fish Department, uh, the dog parks, two professional baseball stadiums that offer opportunities in the off season for the community and for tournaments that come in.

23 sports complexes, and as you see at the bottom, we spend the largest amount per acre on our sports fields, even though there's only about 340 acres within that 1800, but uh very expensive to maintain, and that's also a revenue driver for bringing folks into the community.

Uh aquatics, about 5.4 million gallons of water in 20 pools at across nine sites.

So we spend about 500 six dollars per K-gallon per thousand gallons per year to maintain those pools.

Our general park acres were at a little over 11,000 per acre per year for maintenance, and then like I mentioned, sports fields are highest cost at 21,000 per acre per year.

What I don't have captured on here because it crosses departments is what facility maintenance brings in to maintain our buildings and our rec centers.

So that that is a partnership there, but it is not covered under our 54 million dollar budget.

And then taking a look at our programs again, a lot of words on this page, but just to say overall, without even counting the drop-in use that happens at parks.

We're at about three million people that were serving in visits to our facilities, participation in our programs, participation in our sports, uh the rentals that come in and use our pools and our fields, uh, the activity that happens both with fitness, senior programming, and youth programming at all of our recreation centers.

So we are having a very broad impact for our community of a half a million at about three million visits plus.

So taking a look at where our expenditures go, um, one of the things that came up in our discussion in May is how the reductions in our budget would impact programming for the community.

And I want to show you the chart on the left here to explain why that feels so impactful is when we look at doing a 2% reduction in our budget or any reduction in our budget.

When we consider that 53% of our budget is going towards maintenance of our facilities of our assets to keep them healthy and strong and in good condition for safe use.

Those are the things that can come or go, start or stop programming without impacting the safety of the facility the community's using.

If you look at the chart on the right, we're pretty close to completely covering 100% of the cost for those facilities with the revenue that comes in from that.

So the impact to the budget is pretty minimal when you consider the income that comes in from those uses.

But on the programming side, we're only at about half.

Andrea, uh Spielsbury.

Um, just on that point, um what what types of things could be done to lower expenses of park maintenance?

Like we're not gonna shut down any current parks.

I'm assuming that's not really like the option.

So I know we in some parks got rid of the um what did we call it?

Non-functional non-functional, there you go.

The non-functional turf around the edges, like we weren't getting rid of grass in the parks, but just around the edges or whatever.

I don't know if that even made a dent, but I mean, are there any other things that we can be doing to because of I mean, obviously we don't have parks for income.

We know this, that's not why we provide that service to our community, it's a quality of life thing.

But what could we do to decrease expense?

Sure.

Mayor Council Member Skillsbury, there are some things that we have talked about over the years, and uh I'm glad you're asking.

I mean, those are the types of questions that we'd like to hear what your priorities are.

But we've talked about things like not having lights on at all in the parks.

That has not been a favorable direction in the past just because of our heat, and so people tend to want to recreate, especially in the summer when it's dark.

Um, but that would be one thing.

Another would be to um have less frequent instead of daily landscaping and trash collection out of our parks to reduce that.

We see that accumulate pretty quickly when we're not mowing as often or picking up trash every day.

So that would be another one.

Um eliminating parks would be something the council could explore, but that would mean selling or contracting out for other uses, some of our park locations.

Um reducing water, we've tried that to irrigate less, and we see a pretty immediate decline in the health of our trees in particular, which is contrary to our goal of having an increase in our tree canopy for environmental reasons.

So those are tough.

Um we do contract out most of our maintenance functions so that we have some flexibility there.

It's not at a city staff level of funding.

However, it's more cost effective to contract it out.

We do that comparison every year when we land we um rebid our not every year, but every five years when we rebid our landscape contracts, and it is still cheaper to contract it out than to do that in-house.

Okay.

I mean, I know like obviously if you stop maintaining the parks and they get trashy, then uh no one's gonna use them and it's going to cause a bunch of other problems for neighborhoods.

So um I'm just trying to think outside the box here, because uh obviously you look at this chart and it's kind of astounding at the drastic amount of expenses this is requiring, which then ends up have we have to make those really hard decisions to cut really important programming for the constituents and and our residents in our city.

So um, I mean, is there maybe this is a bad idea, but could you get like community groups that volunteer to take care of or pick up trash in the parks once a week or so?

I mean, could we do something like that or is that just a nightmare as far as trying to coordinate?

I'm just trying to think like how could we get resident buy-in on taking care of something that's important to them that could help save some money because we don't want to shut down parks.

I don't think any of us would say we want to shut down parks.

I don't know.

I'm just trying to think of what other ways we could decrease expenses there.

Councilmember Spielsbury, I put another the next slide up just for discussion on this, um, that shows how much we spend in each of those three major divisions on salaries, utilities, contracts, and then other, which is typically in the case of park maintenance, buying replacement parts, uh replacing light bulbs, um supplies, equipment, when playground piece breaks, it goes into that.

So it's only about 15% of our budget.

The city takes on liability for keeping our parks safe, and so having resident groups do that would be a bit problematic in terms of the city takes responsibility for having a safe location for people to play at.

But then if private groups are volunteering to do that maintenance, we don't have a way of talking like trash pickup, not really any maintenance that would cause a safety hazard, I guess.

But I mean, I understand the liability there.

I uh yeah, I guess maybe I mean, yeah, go ahead.

I don't know, because I don't I don't know what yeah, I don't know.

I'm just trying to think through this.

Just go forth.

I I'm just curious if if this breakdown is pretty typical of a municipality, the your expensive programming, you know, that your parks and maintenance is over 50%, is that a fairly typical municipal breakdown of this department of a department?

Uh council member go forth.

It's kind of apples and oranges when you look at different communities.

So we contract out quite a bit.

Um that's not the case in all locations.

So that makes it hard to compare.

We don't have snow, other communities, pretty much anybody north has their park maintenance function switched to snow removal during this the winter.

So it and the other piece that sometimes park maintenance is under public works, and so parks divisions only handling the recreation side of things.

But I think in terms of putting the greatest majority of resources to maintaining the asset, that is still the most expensive thing to do.

And when you look at the next one in terms of programming, where uh 83% of our allocation for recreation is going to salaries of providing the programs, you see that.

So maintaining the asset definitely is more consuming.

It takes more resources to do than standing the program up, which is staff heavy.

So when you say we contract most out, are you talking about the maintenance part?

Yes.

Okay.

Oh, good.

Sorry, commercial facilities.

What it what are those?

Uh the convention center, amphitheater, cemetery, golf course, and the post and special events office go within that division.

Okay.

So those are facilities that we're running as a business where the income that comes in supports the expense to offer the opportunity.

Yeah.

Okay.

Mr.

Butler, did you want to say something?

I I mean, Mayor, I I think maybe we say council member go forth's point and Andrea can confirm.

But I mean, I think I mean to your question.

I mean, certainly keeping up with those those assets is you're gonna see that the customary major expense in all municipalities as far as maintenance of the parks, the maintaining of the parks, regardless of whether it's snow removal or or how that's you know, how that's equated for, but keeping those parks looking good and safe, um are the you know, you would see that.

But I think your maybe your question is because community facilities will be different in each city, what assets they have, what what they have.

So you really can't use maybe the pie chart, it's maybe more of just the this notion of are we disproportionate in any way between maintenance and programming?

And I believe the answer is no to that.

I mean, you would you would see kind of the same trend over the industry if you were looking at that.

So it's not like you would go to other communities and say, oh, they just do disproportionately more programming than Mesa does versus their their maintenance efforts.

And so um where I think we're right in line with industry norms in that regard.

On the programming, would more either nonprofits or even profit um for profit companies fill the gap?

I mean, do we can we just allow more use of our pools by you know third parties that will fill the programming gap if we pull back?

Making sure my next slide is so uh let me continue through the presentation, council member go forth.

And I would say we put a very large percentage of that already to those groups.

So the rentals, 41% of our recreation rental revenue comes from rentals, and those are the external groups offering those programs.

That is the affiliated youth groups.

That's why I mentioned that specifically, because in order to get a subsidy on the rental rate, which is what we offer with those affiliated groups, they have to be majority Mesa residents and no-cut programs.

So that is offering more of that base level type of recreation that we also look at is our mission.

Our intent through our programs and 37% of our revenue comes from program registrations are intended to be that base introductory level to a sport, to a program, to offering care when schools out of session, whether it's after school or during the summers, that is between our programming and rentals are about equal with what we're offering now.

And the discussion about what that philosophy looks like going forward is when we talked in May, we were talking about raising the rates to have more revenue coming in to those rentals.

And council wasn't comfortable with that, so we kept our rates as they were.

But coming into another year of fees and charges.

Right now we're proposing to increase those fees again to reduce our load on the city's budget.

So 30 per 37% revenue is coming in for programming, but it's the major I mean the majority of our expense for programming is personnel.

Correct.

So yeah, that's this chart.

And about two percent of that is our part-time staff that are actually running the day-to-day of those programs.

So that's the dilemma, um, Mayor and Councilmember.

I mean, we certainly, I mean, our talented staff would love to have more programming, right?

I mean, they probably have dozens of different programs and ideas that they've heard from the community, but something's got to give in order to, you know, stay fiscally constrained on this.

And I think the notion has been that if we have great fields, if we have great facilities, if they're well maintained, if they're safe, that provides opportunities through rentals and other things where private sector clubs, other things can meet that demand of the community from a programming standpoint.

So that's why we've, you know, put our focus on maintaining those uh safe, accessible facilities, and then providing programming where we can, but when resources are tight, then something's got to give.

And and that has been the philosophy of that we've got to look at what programs we offer, and then also what are the rates of those of those programs, and and of course, putting the emphasis on which programs do we get the most bang for the buck.

Um, there's certain programs from our adaptive programs and others that we that we need to do because of the community service that that provides, but when we have tough choices that we have to make, then really looking at which programs are utilized and and and to what level and what reaches um the bro the broadest stroke of the community.

And we all know, I mean, every program is important to those participants, and you hear from them, right, when we talk about that, but that's the dilemma that we have is for the sustainability of the overall program and the financial stewardship of that program, we have to make those tough choices in order um in order in order to stay within budget.

And so that it's tough.

No one wants to raise rates.

I mean, my kids play sports.

I I pay those fees, I do do things, you know, and no one likes when you get an increase in the bill, but it's just a reality of keeping up with the cost because as we know, salaries are increasing, maintenance costs are increasing.

I mean, everything that goes in into that is increasing, and so we have no choice though, but to pass on some of those costs to the users of those of those programs.

That's right, and though you know, those user, those other organizations that provide those programs cover the I mean, they don't have the luxury of nothing.

Those costs are definitely increasing.

Right.

So they they charge what it costs them to put that program on.

Um, and I mean I agree.

I think there are some that we have to decide, you know, what what are our values as a community and what we're we are gonna subsidize, and what we're gonna have to allow the market to come in and fill that gap.

From what I understand, uh we could rent more if we had more facilities.

You know, there is um there's a a backlog of people that want to use some of our facilities.

You and I have had this conversation.

Correct, Andrea, and um, so maybe at that point, you know, we're going through this with Alcott.

Maybe at that point you charge more, you know.

There's higher demand, you get you you charge more.

Um, so anyway, I'm and mayor council member go forth.

It's also part of our philosophy right now is to use some of the revenue from those private uses.

So the the affiliated youth groups are almost across the board, all for-profit businesses to help subsidize the uses that we're offering through admissions and through programs, so that revenue supports those functions so that we can still provide a base level of service in underserved communities in basic level um introduction to sports, those types of things that a for-profit business is not likely to offer because it's not a profitable enterprise.

Um but generally speaking, if you look at the half of the chart that's admissions and programs, we're serving about 650,000 people that way, and through rentals, a little over two million people come in to visits with those rented uses.

So there's definitely uh an effort to continue to provide a full spectrum of services by using the rental revenue to provide the programming.

Let's go over to Mr.

Redia.

Did you and then we'll go to Mr.

Adams?

I think uh my my point's on just looking at the bar graph on you know things like utilities, how we looked at maximizing uh if we where we're at on kind of the lighting and utility pieces in our parks, how we maximize and yeah, I know it's uh spend now, but you know, does that reduce by you know half a million dollars in five years?

You know, if we go I I'm not sure where we're at on the LED exchange of park, uh lighting in the parks, and it seems like it it's having an effect with like street lights and others around the city.

So just um those kinds of things, how how can we reduce some of these utility pieces if if we can uh if if we look hard enough uh on that end?

Um you know, looking at specifically targeting um private partners, uh private public partnerships on specific programming.

I I just case scenario adoption ranch golf course.

When I came on council, nobody went, or it was very lightly attendant, I think the golf course and it was it had been with the vendor uh before, but a vendor that just like I think lost their steam and and didn't uh improve it.

And as we we got a new new RFPs and got a vendor that actually cared about improved it and and move move that forward, it's it's it's booked like there's no parking spots there at Dobson Ranch golf course right now, which is I think a success story that we should look at a how if there is other opportunities like this within parks, you know, facilities.

We I think we've had a discussions on uh you know facilities maintenance or looking at ways to improve facilities uh throughout the city.

Is there things that we can do to limit our costs there in facilities, uh the amphitheater convention center?

Is there a private partnership, public partnership that can schedule uh these uh events uh in the future?

So just thinking through how do we how do we look in specific um pieces?

I I think it's important, you know, parts and and and rec is not a revenue generator, uh it's quality of life like council member spilsbury mentioned, but we do have to look at costs and and how much it costs uh to run things right.

But it's it's it's important to have programming that our our our residents can use and uh have the opportunity to go out in in local neighborhoods and enjoy themselves in the parks and and and and you know play with their families and and and kids, right?

So but I think there is maybe some other opportunities in where we can maybe restructure or look at how do we uh look at specific targeting these pieces uh that maybe brings more revenue uh into the city uh that can pay for some of these some of these costs.

So just a comment and a kind of overall question of of you know how are we looking at these specific costs like utilities, uh private public partnerships that can make a difference, maybe uh I don't know how the answers, I just put it out there to see how we can maximize further the potential for um these opportunities that we might have.

So Mr.

Adams.

Thank you.

Um I I would start off by saying I I agree with much of what Council Member Herredia just outlined.

I think we need to drill down into both the revenue and the expense side of of what we're doing here.

This is a very interesting chart that's up here right now, and I realize that at some basic level um quality of life in a community uh includes providing uh parks and recreation for residents.

I think we might want to look at, okay, what are the basics and then what are the extras?

And maybe we can focus more on the things beyond just the basics of of nice safe inviting parks to the extras, and maybe that's where we look a little closer at revenue generation.

Um you know the the problem with with subsidizing things in general is when you do that, everybody gets to pay, but not everybody perhaps uses.

And I I more favor the idea of the users pay, and folks who don't necessarily have to pick up that financial burden.

I know that's a very broad statement, but typically when you subsidize something, everybody, everybody pays, but not everybody uses or benefits.

Um I like what council member spilsbury, uh like the path she was going down on.

Is there a way we can look at perhaps new efficiencies, new ways of getting some basic things done?

Um and I know that can be a double-edged sword when you're working with uh entities that are volunteer-driven.

There can be challenges there, but I like the idea that we we're thinking about looking at different out-of-the-box stuff.

How can we get some of the things these things done?

Maybe maybe we mow the grass every 10 days instead of every five.

Um maybe you look at uh at sponsorships for some of these events more so than we do.

Um public-private partnerships.

I think that's something we should look at as well.

Uh not only for events uh but for the some of the facilities that we're talking about here.

I I would really like to drill further down into the uh into why it's it's more effective to contract for the the trash pickup and the and the lawn maintenance and things like that.

I'm I'm sure someone has done that work, but um, you know, it it just seems to me that there may be uh you know, it we we we can look at this on from two perspectives real easily revenue and expense.

Um at the end of the day, and it's a real simple statement increase the revenue, reduce the expense, and um we're moving the right direction.

I don't think we should um quote unquote close any of our parks because we basically just put that already invested capital out there, and it's no longer uh it's it it it automatically makes it a poor investment because no one no one's getting any use from it.

But um I I think we need to look at at all sides of this, and I think that uh uh a lot of what other council members have already raised are are good direction points for us to drill down into this a bit more.

Thank you.

Thank you, council member Andrea.

Go ahead.

Okay.

Um continuing through council member Adams just mentioned the chart I have up now.

So this is looking at what our cost recovery rate looks like in each of our recreation areas.

Overall, as a department, we're recovering about 30 percent of our budget through the revenue, but that includes commercial revenue that comes in.

That's how we get to that 30 percent.

Um but overall, definitely the field sports rentals uh are generating the most amount of income and have been our target for at least covering it 100% for many years now.

Breaking down uh the next two slides are two different ways of grouping together what we do.

And so this is looking at by program type, how many people we're serving, how many programs we're offering, and what our revenue looks like for athletics programs in parks, so the outdoor engagement, indoor programming, so that's recreation centers and pools, aquatics programs.

And so you see, the more expensive thing to offer is indoor programming.

That's also our highest demand.

What our master plan showed as being our largest efficiency is offering indoor programming, again, looking at what our our summers look like and being able to provide opportunities inside, and that we are limited because we have so few rec centers.

Um and then the most amount of revenue coming from athletics programs.

And uh dicing this in a slightly different way.

Our rentals bring in the most amount of revenue, our programming is uh the between programming and admissions, the least amount of cost recovery, and so the rentals are supporting what we can offer to the larger community through program opportunities, and the rentals are privatizing the recreation in certain areas where fields and pool rentals make the most sense.

And when I break rentals down a little bit further, um specifically on fields and pools, that's what this chart is.

AYG, so that's the affiliated youth groups are the large user of both fields and pools, so most amount of impact there in terms of attendance is of course families attending their kids games, meets, things like that.

And then IGA, so those are intergovernmental agreement rentals.

The biggest piece of that is Mesa Public Schools using our facilities for uh swim meets and fields.

Um but some of the other school districts do that as well.

And then general rentals would be anybody that doesn't qualify as an affiliated youth group.

So those would be more club sports that are cut programs and adult programs that are renting the fields and the pools.

Um just to recap what we talked about in in May for our budget year starting July 1st.

The slide up now is what we did implement after having a discussion with you, that second discussion in May.

So we are closed on holidays now at our facilities.

Uh we did eliminate some of the the shoulder swim lesson times that we had added because we didn't have as much cost recovery there.

Uh we brought in programming to be when we're already open, especially at pools instead of opening for additional times.

We um increased our fees at a couple of locations, so convention center and amphitheater, that typically takes about three years to start seeing that revenue come in as the events happen, increasing our court rentals, our skate rink um admission and our Ramada rentals, and the things that we did not implement are listed on the slide 23 in terms of not increasing fees for youth programs, um, keeping Fremont Pool open for this coming summer.

Um we kept financial support for our events and raised some fees for uh Flow Rider, but kept it open, the the types of things that you were hearing feedback on.

Um but some of these fee changes, as I said before, we are proposing to implement those to start April 1st.

We'll talk through that when we do fees and charges here in a few months with you.

And that is the presentation, council.

Thank you, Andrea.

Any more questions for Andrea?

Julie.

Um do we do like any kind of study on so if like we were to increase the cost of swim lessons or programming like that, if people would do it with the increased fee, or if they just wouldn't do it because it would be too expensive.

Like, do we are we looking at that sort of a thing?

Councilmember Spilsbury, uh, we haven't done a study quite like that.

Every year when we do fees and charges, we benchmark against the other cities, particularly in the East Valley, to help gauge what the market will support for that, and we keep an eye on what our participation rates are.

Our programs are still filling, and that's why we do feel like there's room to do an increase there.

Because we we have no problem typically filling all of these programs.

I mean, I know I know usually it's like the day of when things open, people are on the phone calling or getting online to to book it.

I mean, I I I'm assuming that's still how it is.

It is still how it is.

Um, I mean, I don't want to increase prices necessarily, but I also don't want to get rid of programming.

And so I I think my hardest thing with this, and I don't know how you guys keep up with all this, honestly.

Like, I I don't know how in the world your department can handle this many programs.

I mean, it's stunning to me that you can even keep track of all of it because it's so much, but all every single one of these programs, every single park, every single you know, facility blesses families' lives in a big way.

And so you just don't want to get rid of any of that.

Like the programming, like the adaptive programming is so incredible if you've ever been to one of those programs or one of those shows that they do, right?

Like that has a really beautiful, meaningful impact in these kids in these families' lives.

It's not making any money.

I mean, it's one of the lowest ones that we're recovering costs on, right?

Um, and so like from a policy position, that's super hard to make those calls when this is just so impactful.

I mean, which is why obviously I cried last year during the budget presentation about this, because it's so impactful for the quality of life of people.

Um, and I guess maybe a bigger discussion around this, and and I know we've had discussions about this, Mr.

Butler.

Do we have to look inside parks and rec?

Like, do we only are we limited to this?

Can we look at what else we're doing in the city and say we want to spend more money in parks and rec and keep these programs open and maybe not do XYZ project or maybe not spend money on this?

Like I think just with a city this size, two and a half million billion dollar budget.

I've often said if we had a small little town that we were in charge of making, and we had 20 choices, and we said, you get to pick 15 of these choices of what you want to spend your money on, it would be a lot easier.

But we're looking at thousands and thousands of options here and ways to spend money, and it's it's just it's so overwhelmingly big and hard.

But sometimes I I wish our choice was more of like can we look at all of the things in the city instead of just saying this is what we have to cut in here, and so I am I making sense.

I hope I'm making sense.

Mayor council member, I yes, you are making sense.

But I mean the reality is I mean, okay, you you take you take that two percent that's then not going to be applied to parks and rec and you apply that to another department, you're gonna have the same stories.

It may be different, it may not be programming from aquatics programs or something like that.

But the idea museum, are we gonna, you know.

I mean, they they're doing buttons.

Oh, sure, just go straight for the idea museum.

That was me.

You see, but that's the dilemma, right?

I mean, that is that it's it's easy to say, okay, we we have all these different departments, it shouldn't, you know, we could, but but where do you where do you draw that line?

And not to say that we're not looking for those if we we are looking for those efficiencies and other things citywide, you know, through through every department.

So and and I agree.

So I mean, at the end of the day, like in this past budget, all cuts weren't created equal.

Right.

Because we chose to still fund some some programs or not raise rates on certain programs.

So we we do, I mean, that is your job as as council.

I mean, we can give those suggestions and then and then you all make that that decision.

But I mean, those are the hard choices we've got to make throughout the organization because it does have that ripple effect.

I mean, whether it's for sure, whether it's programming or whether it's services, right?

I mean, if if we if we applied those cuts to another department and they have to do less services then, and you're gonna hear about that.

So it is that effort of we are trying to find efficiencies throughout.

And um, I think the park staff has done a great job of identifying um areas based on benchmarking, based on uh market demand of where um we can see adjustments that make sense, but still provide, and we and and we do.

I mean, we're not gonna go totally market-based, right?

On this because we provide an essential service on the programming side that maybe club sports don't, because we could raise the rates and price all of our low-income residents out of youth soccer.

Well, what have we accomplished as a community asset, you know, for that, and um and when there are private sector options or there is a demographic that could afford to pay whatever we would choose to charge.

So that is the balance of the case.

And other kids that would never get the opportunity.

Right, exactly.

And and that and that's the balance that I know the staff in parks and rec look at very closely when they come forward with these suggestions and recommendations uh on that.

I mean, ultimately, that is your call as a city council about how we allocate those resources, and you and you look at it holistically throughout.

But it is an exercise that um as we look at tightening our belt, and we'll be doing that again this year, uh finding those efficiencies and the things that council member Heredia talked about as far as you know how how are we saving money through other costs that we have.

We've got some discussion that we'll be coming back with in a few months about public-private partnerships and how we can maximize those um in in this area.

So there are definitely all of it's all of the above, right?

It's not one or the other, it's not we're just raising rates, and you know, that that's the way we solve this problem.

It it is that holistic approach that councils discussed today that um that we need to do, but part of that also includes the hard choices of on our programming side.

I just I feel like often when we look at things like this, I don't feel like I get to ever make any decisions broadly, like across the board of like weighing out those things.

I I don't know.

I that's just that's just kind of how I felt over the last few years.

But and and to that point, I guess too.

We do a lot of new building and new flashy things, and and then places in my district just are getting worse and worse.

And and so just as a higher philosophy there, like I don't want to keep adding new stuff if we can't keep up with the stuff we're already providing.

Yeah, mayor and council member.

You're smirking to that.

No, no, I am I mean I mean, we we have a we have a reckoning, I think, as an organization over the coming years because we do have a lot of deferred maintenance in all areas where we have in order to keep up with growth in order to provide the services uh associated with our growing parts of our community.

I think it's frankly come at the expense of some of our maintenance and keeping our current facilities in the in the shape that they need to be, and that's through all aspects of our organization, not unique to one department or the other.

And that and that is a challenge, right?

And and we're gonna be talking more about that as we talk about capital needs and other things in in the future.

So I mean, you're right.

You I certainly share that philosophy of that um we've got to do a better job of looking at what we have, preserving what we have, taking care of what we have, uh, before we can go add more into the system, no matter what department we're talking about.

And so, what was the point of this particular presentation?

Just to get all of this in our heads, help us be thinking about this, because you're not asking for any direction necessarily, right?

Or I mean, or have have you felt the direction from us?

Because I don't I mean, we're not making any decisions yet until budget season, nothing's changing.

Correct.

And that's what when we had this discussion in the spring during the budget cycle.

We we said we would come back in a few months and and follow up, kind of talk holistically about everything parks and rec is doing, because it's hard when we get into budget season and you're being you know hit in all different directions.

But then we we focus solely on what are those five or six programs where maybe adjustments are being recommended, and you're hearing from those individuals.

And so at this time, we just want to take a step back, have Andrea talk about holistically everything that Parks and Rec is doing, the challenges that they have, get that feedback.

We heard some good things about um things that will shape our narrative going into the budget season as we talk about parks and rec and opportunities that we may have moving forward, and and so that that's the dialogue that we just wanted to have because it is it is an emotional discussion when we start talking about youth programs and and programs that we have out in the community.

And so one to do that at a space where you to really prime the discussion as well going into um budget season next year.

Thank you, Scott.

Mr.

Adams, you have a comment.

Well, thank you, uh Mr.

Butler.

The the pump is primed then.

Um I do have a quick question.

Um Andrea, you showed a slide of items that were not uh eliminated or cut.

And if if you I realize this may be an unfair question, but what was the dollar value here, if you know it.

Had we had we done all of these things, what would have been the additional dollar savings the city would have realized Mayor Councilmember.

No, we have it um based on our presentation in May.

Our budget would have been 55.5 million dollars this year, and what our budget is is 57.8, so about two million dollars.

So this represents about two million dollars.

Okay, okay, thank you.

Um the only comment in addition to that that I have is I I did feel until uh up until Mr.

Butler's explanation, I did feel like I was looking at a just a uh a very small slice of a big pie with just this information.

And uh I'm glad we're not being asked for specific recommendations on these expense items for what to do with these fees, because um it's all part of a big picture that uh that uh Mr.

Butler, you just you just clarified that.

So um I appreciate getting a head start on it and uh appreciate this additional information, Andrea.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh Andrea, thank you, and thank you for bringing this back to that point on this slide, these recommendations that were made for some cuts.

We had received a lot of community input on specific programs.

Not all of these were in the mention, and I felt like at the end of our budget session, this slide, all these programs were just thrown back into the budget in frustration without taking a deeper dive into which ones of these programs are the ones that are most impacting people.

So this is an opportunity to do it, and I have a recommendation.

None of us up here, all of us up here have a lot of things that we are doing, and we do have we are the ones that will ultimately make this decision.

But we have a parks and rec advisory board.

People who look at these programs specifically who are tasked with going out and make and and meeting in the community, it's on it's on our webpage about their jobs.

I think for this pro for this issue, and when we hear about all, you know, we've heard some great ideas about LED lights and park programming, and what about this?

What about that?

For those folks who are very focused on our parks department, it would be outstanding to have their input, their advice and their community outreach so that when we come back, we have some really good information about what is most impactful in this community.

So I would toss this task our parks department volunteers to come back to us with some recommendations.

That's my comment.

Thank you.

Just to back up where we are and why we're here, is because of the elimination of the rental tax that hit our city.

And so we had make cuts to every program, every department across the board and parks is one of them.

And unfortunately, I it if effect affects the quality of life.

As we are increasing the number of people live here, especially in apartments who need outdoor resources.

We need to have healthy, you know, parks and recreation and libraries and the museums.

We are uh we love our thing is being family friendly, all about families.

And yet we are you know faced with these cuts, and this is happening to every city across Arizona.

And um, so that's why where we are.

Of course, we have an impending recession too.

So it's a difficult time that we're trying to do more with less or even sustain what we did with less.

Um huge concerns is like in the tri-centers or the low income areas, is that making sure um they have access to programs and and parks without increasing those fees dramatically.

I don't know if we have a way like for some of the summer programming or whatever.

I understand there's been a parting of the Mesa Parks Foundation and the city, so now we have less revenues, you know.

We don't have foundation revenues either coming in to subsidize for low-income families.

I I'm really concerned about how we can keep a quality of life in the neighborhoods who need it the most and can't afford to pay for club sports or anything like that.

That's totally out of the equation.

The only opportunity they have is is through the city.

Mayor Councilmember Duff, if I could just address that a little bit.

We have our scholarship programs.

Okay.

They were funded during COVID with ARPA funds.

Those funds have gone away.

We haven't cut our scholarship programs.

So we do not turn anybody away who cannot pay.

We work out payment plans off the top.

If somebody expresses they can't pay for it and they have qualifying other public assistance, it's a 50% reduction on that participation fee.

But if even that is an obstacle, we work with families directly to work out what is reasonable for their budget, especially when there are multiple kids that are participating in our programs.

That adds up quickly, even at half-off.

So we work out payment plans that make sense.

That is now just a reduction in our revenue.

There isn't a funding source that replaces it directly.

Um we did just get a grant from Gila River Indian Community for is it $50,000 to help with that revenue replacement when we offer scholarships.

Wonderful.

But I have one of my pet peeves at our parks or uh public areas is we have these beautiful desert plants, and for whatever reason, our maintenance people think they need to be shaped into balls.

And these grasses are meant to like grow out or these plants grow out in order to, you know, shade the roots, and we keep on shaping them like into a ball for whatever reason, giving less shade to the roots.

They never look quite healthy.

Maybe we could cut back on the amount of shaping of the plants and allow desert plants to look like desert plants, of course, be maintained.

I'm not saying, but less cost on shaping everything into balls.

Um there is an oh, and and as far as you know, the city in general.

There are other ways that we can look at um driving revenue for our cities from tax exemptions that happen to large large businesses that are tax exempt.

I I want to get into it, but a tax exempt in our city.

You know, we need some revenues, and it doesn't always have to come on the back of the residents.

It needs to come out of sometimes the businesses that are here and our multibillion dollar businesses and are not paying taxes.

So I'll leave it at that.

There's other ways to get revenues if we were serious about it at the state level.

All right then, thank you.

Um I just have one question.

Uh you talked about the 30% cost recovery.

Is that typical?

I mean, for a city of our size, uh with our revenue stream.

Mayor how does that fit in the whole scheme?

Mayor, I think it's a little less.

Uh it's difficult to compare being such a large city without a property tax and without a dedicated sales tax to something like parks and recreation programming.

Um the 30%, I think is probably a little low because our economic setup is different than other communities that are equal to us in size.

All right.

And one of the major ways to increase that is to charge more in programming, I guess, for some cost recovery as well.

But you know, maintenance comes at a cost.

We own a lot of properties, we have a lot of this and that, and obviously the maintenance side of it is uh the OM is expensive.

So kudos to you to doing that.

You know, we're we're experiencing 30 million dollars a year cuts for the next four years, because we have the I think that's when Mr.

Brady was here, right?

We had a five-year plan, 30 million dollar cuts over the next five years.

Well, that of course the loss was ongoing that we're compensating for the it well in the we we certainly mayor wanted to just look year by year at what that number needs to be.

We targeted it two percent cuts for for the next few years in order to um allow growth to catch up um it's uh with uh revenues and then catch up and and um equalize our expenses.

Um we'll look at that as the economy ebbs and flows.

It'll be an annual um discussion every time we bring a budget back to you all.

It will be through the lens of you know what's happened in the economy and what are we seeing from a revenue and its method standpoint throughout that year.

Very good, thank you.

But but lean times is it's still the same.

Yeah, thank you, Andrea, and your team.

A lot of responsibility there.

Thank you, Mayor.

Your bad.

Uh, next we'll move over to item two is the acknowledge of the receipt of board minutes.

Is there a motion to thank you, Miss Duff?

Vice Mayor, all in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Motion passes.

Next is the events of current events and conferences attended.

Council members, do you have anything you'd like to share?

Ms.

Billsbury.

Yeah, on Tuesday, I got to speak at a class at ASU on misinformation and disinformation and a political science class there with about 40 students.

Um that was a great experience.

And then yesterday, exciting was the um Be Kind People Project kickoff of with partnership with City of Mesa and Mays Public Schools and our opioid awareness campaign that we're doing, our education campaign.

Um, and that was over at the Arizona Museum of Natural History with the Mayor's Youth Committee.

Um we had Councilmember Duff and Mayor Freeman there, and uh it was um I'm just really excited to see where that's gonna go.

It's K-12 um education that we're gonna do around that.

So, and then um the mayor's youth committee did a tour of the um Museum of Natural History, and then we had a town hall with Chief Butler, Holly Mosley, myself, and Mayor Freeman moderated it with those kids on the mayor's youth committee, and they asked a bunch of great questions, and that was a really fun experience.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Um, I think it was Tuesday night.

I went to the um MCC did a 60th anniversary presentation on Dr.

Daniel made the presentation at the Temple Visitor Center Tuesday night.

Um, and just about MCC, you know, all the things that they've contributed to our community and some of the programs that they're doing now and how they're preparing for an innovative future through um programs and uh with our students, it was really inspiring.

There's a lot of 60th anniversary uh events for Mesa Community College.

We're so glad to have them as a community partner.

And Julie, is there an event next week for the is that a public event, the Be Kind People Project?

Um well, it's their funders are uh Wednesday night.

Is that what you're talking about?

Yeah, that's be kind people projects doing that, yeah.

Okay, thank you.

Okay, very good.

Butler you want to share what we mayor and council uh following this will be uh a very abbreviated uh public safety committee meeting for those who participate in that and then um we will be back together next Thursday October 30th at 7 30 for a stack session okay great and Dia de Los Muerte though Saturday and Sunday absolutely I I only didn't mention it because the mayor's plugs earlier as we were welcoming the delegation from Wyoming but I we can't say it enough right yeah and mayor there's also the haunted hangar at Falconfield which is a lot of fun and great festivities out there this this Saturday morning 8 to 11.

I think I'll be there great and the Mesa Historical Museum is doing a cemetery tour on Saturday morning um at 8 to 10 a.m so lots to do this weekend you cannot be bored on Saturday morning.

I'll entertain a motion to adjourn thank you vice mayor miss spillsbury all in favor say aye thank you we're adjourned