All right.

All right.

Well, welcome everyone to the March 5th meeting of the City of Milwaukee Board of Zoning Appeals.

I'm Eric Lowenberg.

Um we are joined with by some board staff, Molly Nang in the back who helped get people checked in our board.

Um Secretary India Gar, we have three members of city departments.

Uh Dawn Schmidt from DPW, Peter Lairdson from DNS, and Ed Richardson from DCD will be giving us uh comments about files as they come in and maybe making recommendations for conditions should should each item get approved.

Uh let's take the role.

And I know we can see we have a quorum, but let's take the roll, uh, Madam Secretary.

Board member right?

Here board Kushel.

Present.

Board member Rucker.

Present.

Board Member St.

Arnold Bell.

Here.

Board Member Current.

Here.

Vice Chairman Samyski and Chairman Lomber.

Here we have a full board.

Um, so we'll alternate.

Um, actually, we have a full, we have our full full board, so we don't even have to switch off with Kevin and and um Michael, which that solves that problem.

Anyway, we we have uh the first item of business before we get to the reading of the administrative consent agenda.

We do have we did have a meeting last month.

There were minutes produced.

Did the did board members have an opportunity to review those minutes and from somebody who was present?

Uh is there a motion to accept to adopt?

Motion to adapt the minutes from the February 5th meeting.

Second.

It's been moved and taken, Madam Secretary.

Board member right.

Aye.

Board member St.

Onobelle.

Aye.

Board member current.

Aye.

Vice Chairman Smysky and Chairman Wilbert.

All right.

So minutes have been approved.

Documenting our previous meeting from February.

So now the administrative consent agenda, there are a number of items.

Uh there's there are a few adjournments, and what we'll do is have Ms.

Garr read these off in order, the addresses, the appeal, and the recommended action.

And we will vote on all of these in one block.

If you're if anyone is present either in a room or online that is wants one of these items to be pulled off of the consent agenda and scheduled for public hearing where there would be testimony, we will do that.

If you're just here to find out what happened, that's fine.

Um, and we'll vote on all of these in a block.

But once we're done reading, I'll ask, and if there's one that you're here for to speak up and we'll we'll pull that off and recalendar that for a different day.

Uh with that, Madam Secretary.

Item number one, 6916 North Tetonia Avenue, a special use and use variance request, staff recommends dismissal without prejudice.

Item number two, 5826 West Appleton Avenue, a use variance request, staff recommends dismissal without prejudice.

Item number three, 5620 West Center Street, a special use request, staff rec special use and use variance requests, staff recommends dismissal without prejudice.

Item number four, 5319 South Third Street, uh dimensional variance request, staff recommends dismissal without prejudice.

Adam number six, 3320 West Valid Street, a special use request, staff recommends dismissal without prejudice.

Item number seven, 2404 West Clyborne Street has been adjourned.

Item number eight, 308 West Kilborn Avenue has been adjourned.

Number nine, 9922 West Capitol Drive, especially use request, staff recommends a 10-year approval.

Item number 10, 627 East Capitol Drive, a spotch use request, staff recommends a 10-year approval.

Item number 11, 633 West North Avenue, a special use request, staff recommends a 10-year approval.

Item number 12, 3201 North Holton Street, a special use request, staff recommends a three-year approval.

Item number 13, 5827, West Capitol Drive, Espacies request, staff recommends a 10-year approval.

Item number 14, 3651, North 27th Street, especially use request, staff recommends a 10-year approval.

Item number 15, 3727 North Sherman Boulevard, especially use requests.

Staff recommends a five-year approval.

Item number 16, 805, North 15th Street, a dimensional variance request.

Staff recommends approval to run with the land.

Item number 17, 1104 Westort Mitchell Street, a special use request.

Staff reckons a five-year approval.

Item number 18, 1322, South 10th Street, especially use request.

Staff recommends approval to run through May 8th, 2028.

Item number 19, 1570 West Mitchell Street, especially use request, staff recommends a 10-year approval.

And item number 20, 12 about or sorry, 1200 West Mallory Avenue, a special use request, staff recommends a 10-year approval.

All right.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

One second, Dolores.

Hello.

Hello.

Yes, I this is all the one in China, but I don't know if you guys can see me.

I cannot see you right now.

All I see is welcome to the webinar.

No, this it's just other women chiller.

Uh good afternoon.

It's just um this is a there's just uh audio, there's no video on on the go to my webinar that we used to do.

Oh, I see.

Okay, sorry, but there's we just our screen just shows we're looking at ourselves.

Good looking bunch.

Oh okay.

But yeah, so just trying in when you get to my items.

Yes.

Uh yes, yep, this is just a consent agenda.

So um we will make sure to reach out to you.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

All right, with that.

Um is there a motion?

Motion to accept staff's recommendations.

I'm sorry, who was what was the it was it was Lithuanie and Henry first and second.

All right, you board members stand on the bottom.

Hi, board member rucker.

Aye, board member current, aye, vice chairman Sonoisky and Chairman Lomberg.

All right, all right.

Um there were a couple other this is for later calendars, but just in case anyone's early, there's a few other matters that are sure.

28, 29, 35, and 37.

So those will be heard on another date.

That will uh dispense with the uh consent agenda.

It's we have to wait a few minutes so we can begin our 215 calendar.

Um so we'll just take a about a two and a half minute break.

Oh yeah, while we're doing that, why don't we uh we'll swear in the city departments?

Oh, I'm sorry.

I guess that works.

Or maybe we we might need the full two minutes to do this.

All right, do you affirm on your oath?

That's testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

I do.

All right, so I have to take a short break.

Yeah, we don't want to move some atoms of the mouse.

No, we would probably see that.

No, it's just like it's like a flower.

Okay, it's not word.

And they're like the meaning basically.

I don't like it.

It was just coming to roll in a roll like that.

Um fishburgers test on, I think I'm lying.

Someone gifted me these, but we so good.

I like how there's a room that did some.

We shouldn't be keeping them.

Slightly quite delicious.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, which is also my favorite.

Which is also very good.

Well I think we can probably keep going.

All right.

Well, we are past 215, which means we can start our 215 calendar.

So we call it 21 and 22 together.

Yes.

Item number 21, 6905 North 43rd Street.

Request occupy the premises as a contractor's yard and contractor's shop and 6885 North 43rd Street request by the premises as a contractor's yard and contractor's shop.

Um this is an alder woman Taylor's district.

Is there anyone else online that would like to speak on 6905 and 6885 North 43rd Street?

Please raise your hand.

Okay.

I don't see any raised hands at this time.

Could you please give us your names and mailing addresses, please?

Certainly, my name is Tom Krell.

I'm an attorney, K-R-E-U-L mailing address 2835 South Oreland.

Excuse me, Road in Berlin, Wisconsin.

The left is uh Jeff Schrader, who is the applicant.

Uh 6885, North 60 for uh North 43rd Street.

And 69, oh 6905 or tickets addresses.

Uh I'm I'm not sure that it's a that's fine.

We'll just have Mr.

Schrader sworn.

Could you please raise your right hand?

Do you affirm under oath that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Thank you.

Um you're just here as counsel, you're not in a fact witness or anything, correct?

Correct.

You do not.

Yeah, my anticipation is the Bozo would be asking questions here.

Yeah, yeah.

I just didn't know because if as counsel, you don't need to be sworn if you unless you were gonna be offering some facts and not in a representative capacity, but you're good.

Representative.

Well, that's few from DPW.

Nothing to add um DNS, no digital comments DC.

Um in regard to uh sixty-nine oh five uh north forty-third street.

We do have uh conditions about landscaping.

There currently are some shrubs planted along the uh frontage uh between the driveway and the north abiding property owner, we we would just basically like to add uh some shrubs to that.

But more importantly, uh we are requesting uh that a landscape plan be drawn to provide screening to the north abutting residents.

Uh there's several different ways of doing it.

The most common would be an opaque fence with some tall shrubs, but we'd have to have it on a plan.

So that's that's kind of our condition.

And we could also kind of incorporate the existing landscaping along a 43rd Street frontage uh to that landscape plan.

Um probably uh we might go to six.

I I know there is a concern from your neighbor about that, and maybe this will kind of uh make it easier for uh coexistence.

All right.

Well, thanks for the comments.

Um Alderman Taylor, did you want to give us input now, or did you need did you have questions or did you want to do that?

Actually, yeah, actually I would like to go right now.

Um because uh DPW actually just said what I was going to request.

Um I received a letter from the resident uh b and the resident's complaint was very long, but it it pointed out that um they have all of this construction equipment that they have to look at when they walk in and out of their door.

So because they are the property that butts up against it.

So I was just gonna ask if we could require some kind of fencing or something for um to divide those two properties.

So thank you to DPW for being on top of that.

Yes, no problem.

We I think would agree this is this is a business as I understand it, it's at least since the early 90s, 92 or 94.

There's different things written, but long it is a uh business, you know, uh district as well, but there is a neighbor who's beyond the typical, not I wouldn't say typical, but beyond what we may often see with sort of a vague objection.

There's some pretty specific um concerns cited, and it does seem to me that the recommendation by DCD will certainly go a long way to eliminate some of those concerns.

Um I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Yep.

Um Mr.

Chair.

Yes.

I guess I would be remiss if I didn't say anything about this, but I see the notes from DCD, DPW, and DNS in the hearing summary.

Excuse me.

And um, but I look at the four criteria for the special use, and I see the same statement that seems like it was just pretty much copy and paste in and all four criteria.

And maybe that doesn't matter, but I'm not familiar with this business.

I want to know how it is gonna be uh uh uh protect protect traffic and pedestrian safety.

I want to know the protection of property.

I want to know the protection of public health and safety and welfare welfare, and these statements are just pretty much the same.

And I think everybody that country from before this board, um, they're prepared and they tell us things and they tell us how they're gonna meet this criteria.

This is just kind of the same statement.

Um I'll say my piece about that.

Yeah, I've just wanted to go ahead and address that.

Um just to just address those criteria, if you could yep, go ahead.

Um the applicant's business is a seal coating company.

So what he does basically stores his equipment and stores his equipment at the site, leaves in the morning, goes to the seal coating uh supplier, if you will, the asphalt company fills his equipment with the seal coat, goes to his various customers' seal coats when he's done, comes back and parks his vehicles back where they were in the morning.

Uh doesn't have any uh members of the public come to the business, doesn't have uh you know uh all the various aspects of the business.

I'm sure that this board sees all the time for all of the meetings.

So it's that to minimize it, but there's really that much to address, and I think that's why it looks so um vacant when it comes to the applicant process.

So that would be my response.

Can I just ask a quick question?

How many employees do you have?

Is it just you driving the truck?

Okay.

It's a seasonal business, six months.

I do it from the middle of uh April to October.

No shut down.

There's there's nothing on it probably.

Oh no, it at home.

So it's off my business.

So great.

Thank you.

Karen, are you able to hear the is everyone speaking loudly enough?

Closer to the microphone would be helpful.

Okay.

I have a seasonal business.

You don't have to repeat it, but just I just were leaning back, and I know these are we can hear way differently in here than we know she can online.

So um hey, do you have a question for it?

Staff.

It sounds like you know, you've created here since 1992.

Is there a previous approval on record?

I have not seen any record on this side.

I don't believe there is that was the issue.

I'm sorry, this is all the woman tailored.

That was the issue with the business is that there was no um he had not received um any anything at all.

Uh someone, I can't remember exactly how it came to um our knowledge, but it was discovered that he has been running this business and has not had uh occupancy granted to him for it.

Yeah, yeah, I suspect it's because it's resident, it's like a because he lives there too.

No, the uh Mr.

Chairman, it's a little c a little forny complex as far as 6905 North 43rd.

That's the commercial property that has been traditionally a commercial uh some form of tool and die business in the distant past Mr.

Schreeder came in the last 10 years, something like that.

Yeah, so somehow there was never uh an occupancy permit for the seal coating business.

The property at 6885, that was a residential property for uh majority of its life, still zoned LB2, but residential, and the owner has expanded his business over the years onto that property.

I believe that's his residence.

Um so he's here before you to get approvals uh for book for occupancies at both locations.

Okay, that's that answers my question.

Thank you.

All right, any any question, any remaining questions or comments from board members?

If there aren't any, I can make a motion.

Please.

Um having found the four criteria have been met based on the evidence in the file testimony by staff and um applicants here at the table.

I would move to approve these special uses for a period of five years, subject to the conditions in the hearing start, and including the condition that um landscaping and screening be added to the property.

I'll second all right, madam secretary.

Board member St.

Arnold Bum.

Aye, board member Rocker, aye.

Board member current, aye.

Vice Chairman Smysky.

All right.

And Chairman Lundberg.

Aye.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Item number 23, 9143 North 76th Street.

Request to occupy the premises as a daycare center for 49 children per shift, infant to 13 years of age, operating Monday through Sunday from 5 a.m.

to midnight.

That's 9143 North 76th Street.

Is there anyone online?

Oh, it does appear to be Jackie Claiborne.

Yes, I'm here.

Okay.

Are you the applicant?

Yes.

Okay.

Could you please uh give us your name and mailing address?

Jackie Claiborne.

Mailing address is 780 North 44th Street, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 5323.

Thank you, Ms.

Claiborne.

Could you please raise your right hand?

And then do you affirm under oath that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Yes.

Thank you.

And this is also an Alderwoman Taylor's district.

All right.

Um we'll hear from city departments and then we'll hear from Alderwoman Taylor.

Please go ahead, DPW.

Nothing to add.

DNS.

No additional comments.

DCD, nothing additional.

All right.

Um Alder Woman Taylor, do you have input on this one at this point, or would you like to wait, hold off a little bit?

I can um I can hold off until she does her presentation.

Okay.

Okay.

Um, all right.

So we got a request, uh, the daycare center request.

Um, why don't you just tell us a little bit about um your plan and your experience, and then we'll see if we have any questions.

Okay, again, good afternoon.

My name is Jackie Claiborne.

My experience is I have 13 years of experience in the child care field.

I had my home daycare for six years now, and I'm looking to expand because I have a lot of working families.

I'm actually full at my house daycare as of now, but I have a lot of working families in the surrounding area who's needing child care.

Um, the goal is the goal of my daycare is to support families and community by offering reliable and affordable child care.

Many parents need a safe place um for their kids and a reliable place.

And I that's that's my child care.

So I feel like expanding is helping the surrounding families around me and helping the children as well.

Um, so yeah, I feel like I will be having uh um my goal is to help a lot of local families by giving them a trusted child care option close to their home, which is I'm about six minutes away.

My house daycare is about six minutes away from where I will be expanded to, and I know it is a big knee of child care in this area.

Okay, well, thank you for that.

Um board members, do you have questions?

Or Alderwoman Taylor, did you have any uh questions or input?

Uh yes, we uh the the grant she Miss Claiborne met with Granville Havenswood Advisory Council yesterday.

Um I know she was very nervous, but she had um we we helped her walk through the presentation and she did a pretty good job.

We did um so we there is a site that gives us information about daycares, which we just learned, and so we were able to look up uh what her background is as far as violations and um she has had no violations.

I think one small violation um on there that was um, but it did not it did not speak to the safety and uh care of the children.

Um, I said say the safety of the children as under her care.

So as long as um you know we didn't see any violations related to that, we were okay with her um expanding her daycare in our area.

We did talk extensively about the safety and and the difference between running a daycare in a home and in in the facility, and um she spoke a little bit about the um the meals and the play area that would be in the back of the building because a lot of daycare is now moving to these strip malls, and they put the play area in the front of the building right in the parking lot.

Um, but she specifically stated that she would do it in the back of the building, and so we were okay with that as well.

Um, but I think all in all, it sounds like Miss Clayborne has run a pretty decent daycare, and so we were okay to give her an opportunity to run her daycare in the district.

All that we ask is that um she be given uh a three-year uh time frame uh on her occupancy.

Um so that we can just check back in with her again um at that time.

Thank you very much, Alderwoman Taylor.

It does it's it's you've gone through uh to the applicant.

You've gone through a lot of work and steps and putting this together and expanding your business.

You found a location that I understand you're seeking a use variance, but it does seem to be a perfectly fine use and having gone through uh GAC and explaining your uh proposal here to the advisory committee and you have support of the Alderwoman.

It seems to me that this could be operated in a way that's um protective of the public.

Uh the board members have any concerns or questions?

I and frankly, the recommendation for the three-year approval is appropriate.

In my view, it kind of gives an opportunity to to have this get up and running.

Let me ask the applicant.

What if we gave if you got your occupancy next week when the we if we approve this?

How long would it take you to get uh to be able to open your doors for customers?

Oh, I am aiming for May.

Okay.

So um I'm aiming for May.

I have been communicating with my licensor, so she's prepared to schedule me to come out and take a look.

I have everyone in line to come out and do what's needed to be done.

So I'm aiming for May.

Okay.

Well, I think then if given a little cushion there that she can get started and have a track record of uh how this operation is working, and if it continues to be a good use, then she can come in for a renewal.

But I think that time frame seems appropriate as well, my opinion.

Uh board members, Mr.

Chair, having found out the criteria necessary to make those experience have been that's based on the uh review by the departments and uh testimony received to make motion to approve is as requested for a three-year period with any conditions in the hearing summary.

Second, Madam Secretary, Board Member Stan Arnoba.

Hi, board member Rocker.

Aye, board member current.

Aye, Vice Chairman Smysky, Chairman Lumber.

I thank you.

Good luck.

Thank you.

All right, next item.

Item number 24, 5620 West Center Street.

Request to occupy the premises as ground as a ground transportation service facility and a light motor vehicle outdoor storage facility.

Is there anyone in the audience or online for 5620 West Center Street?

Okay, there does appear to be someone raising their hand.

Mohammed, you should be able to unmute yourself.

Yes.

Hi.

Hello, could you give us your name and mailing address, please?

Uh Mohammed Eid.

Mailing address, it's uh 562 centers tree in Milwaukee.

Okay, and you're the applicant, correct?

Yes, yeah.

I don't see anyone else that has their hand raised online.

No, that's only me.

Oh, could you please raise your right hand, sir?

You affirm under oath that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Yes.

Thank you.

Mr.

Eid, your last name is EID, correct?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

Just want to make sure our court reporter uh transcribes it with the right spelling.

Let's hear from the city departments.

This is an Alderham and Charlotte Morris district.

She is present, but I don't know if she's gonna have anything on this item or not.

But you know, he's he's on those.

Um I just want to if if I don't know what she's gonna have to say, but let's hear from DPW.

So just wanting to emphasize uh one of our conditions that no more than 30 vehicles are parked outside on the lot for any reason at any time.

DNS.

Thank you.

The neighborhood services is not opposed uh to this request.

We do respect that uh they're asking for ground transportation and light motor vehicle outdoor storage.

Their plan of operation states uh that there will be towing potentially 24 hours, seven days a week, which I believe is sort of the nature of a towing business.

Um cars break down at two in the morning, they get in wrecks, etc.

So rather than trying to uh shoehorn in an eight to five uh schedule, which is going to get broken.

Uh again, I respect the 24-7.

I did put an item in uh in our conditions, may not be completely enforceable, but that the applicant takes measures necessary uh that their 247 operation does not disturb the surrounding residential neighborhood.

Again, that's a little vague, uh, but I wanted to put it on record, and we would certainly ask for a uh a shorter time frame of approval.

Thank you.

Thank you.

DCD.

Uh we do have a concern that it's it's common for some of these uh tow yards to in effect become salvage yards.

Uh so we just do have that concern.

But and if the special use is granted, uh we are requesting that the petitioner uh put slacks into the existing chain length fence that uh uh fronts the site on uh center street, uh the cross street, and I believe also the alley.

And we request that those slats be inserted by June 1st, uh 2026.

All right, thank you.

Um Mr.

Eid, they I know that your plan of operation you you're there's never gonna be vehicles towed to the premises to await repairs.

That's part of your plan of operation.

Uh yes.

Well, the only the only reason this the vehicle will get storage back to the lot, it's just because like the that second location where we take in it at the at the specific time, there will be closed and we have to storage it for overnight or maybe the most over the weekend until we we deliver it to the drop off location uh when they reopened.

Okay, and it won't it won't be more than like maybe like five, 10 cars, it's it's the max.

And then they're gonna be gone the next day or on Monday if it gets told on the weekend.

Okay.

That's kind of what DCD is alluding to is that it just kind of can creep into being somewhat of a salvage yard, which of course is not what you know.

The if you were to have vehicles stored there and neighbors complain, there could be enforcement action from DNS and um you know that could create problems for renewal if we were to approve this.

So if that's your plan and this is approved, you have to make sure that you're abiding by that.

Understood.

Okay.

Thank you so much, Mr.

Chair.

Just really quick um clear for clarifying question from um DCD slats are um is it those things that go in the chain then so that it can't be seen in or out?

Okay, thank you.

Um the other uh just commentary that I want to make is that um I did have an opportunity to visit the site.

Um, it is completely um so on center street, mostly business behind it is residential.

Um, and I think there might be a home.

I think there might be if I remember correctly, there might be a home next door to it.

So I agree with the shorter time frame, just again for our operator to uh build relationships with the neighborhood.

Uh, and if we need to make some pivots in the future, we have the opportunity to do that.

Uh, but it's it it's sort of like a really ideal location um for this type of business.

So I don't have any um objections to anything that was shared.

Okay.

Can I ask a quick clarifying question?

Just for the record, for the applicant's sake, um, to either DNS or DCD.

Could you describe uh what would tip the scales to um salvage and the things that they cannot do that would be thank you?

Sure.

You we refer back to the definition of uh salvage facility and outdoor salvage facility.

So uh the presence of nuisance vehicles, uh certainly the meaning for in laidman's terms, crushed wrecked uh vehicles.

Um that's gonna be that's gonna be that tipping line that you describe, certainly if they're there for longer than 48 hours.

Uh any outdoor storage of auto parts, body panels, junk trash, and debris, that's all for Boden.

Um the uh um you know, the a car that needs to be towed generally is not operable, otherwise it would not be too told.

So there is some gray area there in terms of inoperability, but certainly anything on jacks, anything on blocks again back to burnt, crushed, those are all gonna be red flags.

And specifically too if it's there for longer than 40.

Yeah, so you know, again, there's some judgment.

The code says 48 hours.

We understand things like you know, holiday weekends or certain circumstances.

We do find that um neighborhoods self-regulate.

So when there's a problem, neighborhood services finds out about it.

Um, and when there's not a problem, um, you know, the the business moves along.

Um so given that this is a first shot, and we have no prior significant enforcement record at this location, uh, no complaints um from really the prior auto repair issues.

Um that's why DNS we're willing to let this give it a try.

Um, it should be noted again for the applicant.

I don't think this is the case, but uh back to your question.

Uh any auto repair outside of the building, and again, there is no uh current occupancy permit uh application for light motor vehicle auto repair at this location, it's just for ground transportation and vehicle storage.

And I think historically these types of operations are inherently disruptive just because you know there's noisy backup alarms and things like that.

So the operators that have success in neighborhoods, because we already understand this to be a good site for a use like this.

The operators that have success are the ones that keep their site clean, not having parks laying around, not not having those cars linger there for for a week, um, so that neighbors aren't calling in and DNS isn't going out and issuing uh enforcement action uh and orders and and then you know you could be an excellent neighbor and and building a good track record is going to be key.

Um we do want to be protective of the neighbors, but it does appear that this can be uh operated in a way that does that.

So I think understand we can do I think I should you know uh try and an approval that gives us an opportunity to operate responsibly with the appropriate.

Any board members have other questions?

I think found it the criteria necessary to rent the special use I haven't based on the evidence in the file testimony received uh make motion to approve this for three years with conditions and during summary.

Second board member St.

Arnold Bowl.

Hi, board member rucker, board member current.

Hi, Vice Chairman Samoyski and Chairman Bloomberg.

I all right, thank you, Mr.

Eid.

Take care, good luck.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, item number 25, 3416 South 88th Street.

Refus to occupy the premises as a group home for eight occupants.

Is there anyone online for 3416 South 88th Street that would like to speak?

Please raise your hand if you'd like to speak on this item.

That's just online.

Yeah, no, someone did just raise their hand online.

So I do have one person.

Let's find out what they sure.

Um, Sarah Stone.

You should be able to unmute yourself this week.

Are you here for 3416 South 88th Street?

Yes.

And are you here in support or opposition?

Uh for more information that was not covered at the at the neighborhood meeting.

Okay.

Um, we're gonna actually call everybody, have everyone give our their name and mailing address and then swear them in.

If you want, you could just give us your name and mailing address now.

Okay.

No, sir.

Uh Sarah, Sarah Stone, 8811 West Holt Avenue.

Okay, thank you.

And then you could you guys give us and is anyone else present in the room wanting to speak.

Okay.

So we're gonna, I want to get us.

I just want to this is scheduled for a regular hearing.

And these are supposed to be, you know, five minutes.

Um I don't I would like to conclude this and have some testimony and bring it to a close tonight.

We can do that outside of a contested hearing, but everyone's just got to be brief.

We have a lot of materials, we have a lot of letters of support and objection.

Um, so if everyone is committed to being brief and making sure we can get the the points out, we can hear all this and proceed today.

If this is if this is going to be a uh a longer hearing, um, it's gonna have to be renoticed for public hearing.

I don't think we need to do that, but we can't be we we have a full calendar.

So I think we can do that.

They don't have a ton of people, so let's get everybody um let's get everyone's let's just get everyone's names and sworn swear everyone in at once and then we'll uh try to talk about your name and mailing address.

Alicia Hart, 1322 uh South 10th Street, 5324.

We're actually like house key 1322 south.

Sorry, 1322 South 10th Street.

Thank you.

So we're joined by Alderman Bergallis in his district.

Um, why don't we have uh if we could just have if just maybe you guys are sit in the front row and have people come up and use these microphones to give us their names and mailing addresses, we get everyone's names, and then we'll have to swear everyone in, and then we'll um probably will be easiest to just have uh a brief statement from the applicants and have people that are here that are in opposed give their feedback and then we'll we'll continue that way.

Uh go ahead.

Names and mailing.

I just have everybody also.

Can I have everybody spelled or last name, please?

Uh my name is James Weiss, W E I S is 8829 West Holt Avenue.

Thank you.

Ma'am, could you give us your name and mailing address as well?

My name is Julie Black, 8522 West Holt Avenue, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 53227.

Thank you.

And then there's two other people.

If you want to come forward and use this microphone, um give us your names and mailing address, and then we'll swear everyone in.

Umderwoman, were you here on this one too to make a statement?

Because it's not your day, we'll just swear you in because you're like kind of emotional.

But um, I just wanted to make sure because I know you had submitted some material.

Thank you.

Uh go ahead.

Umgamok, U-N-G-E-M-A-C-H 3442, South 88th Street, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 53227.

Changamak 3442 South ADA Street.

Okay.

And we're also joined by Alderwoman's Amory.

But if everyone who's going to testify, can raise their right hand and be sworn at the same time, and then we'll resituate the people at the dias.

We'll get we'll get started.

Go ahead.

Okay.

Um do you affirm under oath that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

I do.

All right.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Why don't we have the applicants come back to the front and we'll start with with that with that statement.

We'll get some statements from the uh elected officials in the district, and then we'll hear from people in opposition and people in support, and then the board will probably have some questions.

We'll also hear from our city departments as well.

So when you guys are kind of getting situated, let's hear from DPW.

Nothing to add.

DNS.

DCD.

Nothing additional.

Okay.

All right.

Go right in.

So I'm Alicia Hart.

I am the assessment associate director of programming.

So we just have an opening statement.

We attended the community meeting this past Monday, and we have carefully read the statements submitted both in favor of and in opposition to our relocation.

We want to begin by saying clearly that we hear the concerns.

We understand that change in a neighborhood can bring questions and uncertainty, and those feelings are real.

At the same time, we respectfully ask that you hear me today, and more importantly, that you hear the youth whose voices are often absent from rooms like this.

We are here seeking approval to relocate the courage house, which is Wisconsin's first licensed group home, specifically serving displaced queer youth.

These are young people who have been removed from their homes because they were in unsafe situations.

They did not choose to enter foster care and that they did not do anything wrong.

They are here because adults failed to provide safety across the United States.

Across the United States, LGBTQ plus youths are significantly over overrepresented in foster care.

While they represent a small present percentage of overall use, they count for 30% of youth imposter care.

So many enter care after experiencing rejection, abuse, or homelessness connected to their identity.

And in Wisconsin, thousands of youth move through the foster care system each year, and many experience multiple placements and instability.

The average stay in a traditional group home in Wisconsin is measured in weeks.

At Courage House, our youth stay is more than six times longer than that average.

That stability is intentional.

We operate as a trauma-informed certified facility, and every member of our team is trained to understand the impact of trauma and to respond with structure and accountability that is rooted in healing and not punishment.

When young people feel safe long enough, they begin to thrive.

Our model was recognized by the Wisconsin Department of Children and Families.

We have worked closely with the department to help inform the best practices and expectations for group homes across the state.

We are not operating outside of the system, but we are strengthening it.

We also want to address directly some of the fear and stigma attached to the words group home.

The youth in our care are not criminals.

They are not drug traffickers, they are not bringing weapons into neighborhoods.

These are students.

They work part-time jobs, they attend therapy, and they are young people navigating trauma that they did not choose.

Group homes carry stigma simply by name, but these are youth who have already experienced rejection and instability.

They do not need another door closed because of assumptions about who they are.

We want to acknowledge something that is often left unsaid in conversations like this.

When people hear the words group home, many assumptions quickly follow.

There are assumptions about behavior, about safety, about the race or background of youth who might live there.

And those assumptions are shaped by decades of stigma and stereotypes that do not reflect the reality of the young people that we serve.

Our youth are coming to us from many different backgrounds, identities, and life experiences.

What they share is not delinquency or danger.

What they share is experienced instability, rejection, or harm before entering care.

They're simply young people who deserve the same opportunity for stability and belonging that any young person deserves.

And too often in our society, young people who are different, whether because of their identity, their trauma, or assumptions about their race, are treated as problems to be moved elsewhere instead of young people to be supported.

It would also be disingenuous not to acknowledge that some of this fear is surrounding the fact that we are rooted in the letters of LGBTQ.

Courage Plus does not shy away from that reality.

In fact, we believe our responsibility is to meet those fears with honesty, education, and presence.

We are committed not only to calling out stigma and misinformation when we see it, but we're also creating opportunities for understanding.

We are not afraid to be in pres to be present in spaces where LGBTQ plus people have historically not been welcomed or understood.

We show up because our mission demands it.

Our young people deserve adults who are willing to do the hard things, who are willing to advocate, educate, and remain present, even when the conversation is uncomfortable.

As a community, we share an obligation to help young people who have experienced harm find stability and success.

When we provide that stability, they graduate, they gain employment, they become contributing members of our community, and they become neighbors.

Courage House is operated successfully for seven years without incident.

We are committed to being responsive, collaborative, and respectful neighbors, just as we always have been.

So today, our request is simple.

If we believe that every young person deserves safety, stability, and the chance to grow into who they are meant to be, then we must be willing to make room for them in our communities.

Because ultimately, the question before us is not whether these young people deserve a safe place to live, because they do.

The question is whether communities like this are willing to make room for them.

And if not here, then where?

So we respectfully ask for your approval so that we can continue offering safety, stability, and healing to youth who simply need a place to call home.

Thank you.

Um we hear from do you want to wait and make comments or will we hear from the neighbors that are here?

Is anyone is anybody um present that wish this in favor or people that wanting to speak opposed to this, other than uh Ms.

Stone, who is kind of here for information and not sure.

Can I just get a show of answers for people who are who are here in support?

Um, and then the remaining uh of you are here to to voice some concerns and opposition.

Why don't we have you guys clear the way we'll have the people who are have some concerns come forward and um then we can hear from the from the people in favor, and then the board can answer some questions.

May I sorry, I can't see anyone.

May I ask my question real quick?

Yes, go ahead.

This is Miss Stone.

I just want to know for what term of duration they're requesting this, because I've been on this call for a while, and I've heard for terms of three years, five years, 10 years.

I really just want to know what their request is for, for how long.

Well, they're not requesting anything.

The board has the complete and total discretion to grant uh approval for a special use, a conditional use permit for uh a time that we choose.

Um, but there's not a specific request.

So that's kind of part of making that decision if we're if something is approved is hearing you know from the neighborhood and finding out what what if there are things that could be um that need to be kind of evaluated and and by way of having a shorter term or if okay, you know, sort of depending.

So that's why we want to hear from the public on this.

Yes, I am much more comfortable with a shorter term since we've never had anything like this in our neighborhood.

I'm five doors down from them.

I have no opposition to it, except that a lot of information was not given with direct questions were asked.

So I would I would be much comfortable with that more comfortable with this if it's for a shorter term, so that we could reassess and make sure it's it's working and not harming the neighborhood after that period of a couple of years.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, thank you very much.

Um who wants to start?

Go ahead.

Um, I I do voice very concerns as well because uh give it.

I'm sorry to interrupt you.

Just give us your name again so we can make sure we have a good record.

My name is Jim, Jim Moyes.

Okay, thank you.

Uh, the residents there are 46 years, seven houses away.

I walked it off this morning, and I wasn't quite under the 250 feet.

I was just a little bit over that.

So initially I didn't get any information on this whatsoever.

So that was concerning enough that uh I was I was just wondering what I could take a look at it.

So I started investigating a little bit, and I find out that Bradley and their and the Currics Plus had closed on that house on December 11th, 2025.

Sorry to interrupt, sir.

Sir, could you get close to the microphone versus farther away?

Is it better now?

Is it better now?

Okay.

Uh I did have an opportunity quickly to do some research.

And I discovered that I think the house uh uh 30 3416 had closed on December 11th, 2025.

Um I would have thought that this, if this was not to be predetermined that we needed to come to this room today and have meetings and neighborhood meetings and everything to discuss whether or not this was going to be approved or not.

I was a little bit uh disappointed that uh were no, I wasn't notified of there's many other neighbors that weren't notified of this either.

So this is catching us lots of very much by uh surprise.

Um if they if they were in by the 11th, why didn't we have the neighborhood meeting uh rather than this past Monday, less than 72 hours ago, to ask our questions to get comfortable with it and maybe do some research.

Why wasn't that done in January to give us enough opportunity to address the board address the questions that we have, whether it be for safety, what exactly is the group home and everything else.

What I what I received then when I when I uh came back from a short travel was was a letter dated February 20th.

This letter was made in such haste, the date isn't even right on it.

It's February 20th, 2025.

I I'm not I'm I want to hear, but this just to so far everything has not you said has nothing to do with the criteria.

You're just come the the mailing that's that's set by the common council and who gets mailing and all that.

So what I want to know, like if you can just address criteria, because otherwise, if we're gonna be if everyone's you know, we're gonna have to come back and not I would I would in fact I well, my opening statement was I'd like to come back.

And I would I would I would hope that we could come back because I think many of the people here and a lot of people a lot of those people at the meeting on Monday, they felt the same way.

We didn't have enough information, we didn't have a chance to question anything because we got everything delivered to us on Monday, some of which wasn't exactly accurate.

So we wanted to get the little bit more time in order to go after this.

What wasn't what did you what is what do you think wasn't that one of the things that was accurate?

They said, well, how many times at the as the current residence on 10th Street were the police call?

They told us three times.

Open records law has this, it has it many more times than that.

So it starts to like what's what's really going on here.

And we'd like to have more time in order to discuss that.

I think that uh one of the things that uh on Monday was they handed out postcards, postcards would have asked for your name address and whether you're opposed or for had the been put in the mail on Tuesday, they never would have got to you.

So you can see the distrust that's coming with with some of this, some of these conversations, Eric, because we we just we haven't been given the opportunity to do anything here.

So obviously, this is all new to us.

This is a very unfamiliar to me, having a group all in a neighborhood I've been there for 46 years.

That uh I dynamically opposed to this thing because we don't know half of the things that are going to go on here.

And that and I think that's where uh the frustration has come in, is that we weren't given any amount of time in order to address this.

And after the meeting on Monday, I think there were more questions and answers.

And I think that's why that the caller online also wanted some additional information because we were uh not given that opportunity, and we want the opportunity to do some research and some due diligence so we can come back to this group at a later date to address that after it, frankly, I have to talk to their neighbors because I've done I don't think half my neighbors even know about this.

All right, well, thank you.

We appreciate that.

All right, and then we'll just move on down the line.

Ms.

Block.

Hi, my name is Julie, and I live near the proposed group site.

Um I looked into some statistics on the other group homes that this runs.

They have two other locations, a single family home that's located at 1544 South Sick, and the apartment building 2030 West National.

Both of those homes are located in Milwaukee.

The police department is second district.

Um, the second district is 7.2 square miles and services about 79,000 people and open records requests revealed MPD was called to the home seven times for missing residents and four other times for additional services during 2025.

The building on national during the same time frame required MPD service four times with two of those being welfare checks.

I I live in district six, and that home that is being before the occup is in district six as well.

It's 22 uh 0.7 square miles and serves 122,000 people.

An internet inquiry of MPT uh shows there's about 81 patrol officers assigned in the district two, and about 49 assigned to district six.

If this occurrency permit were to be approved, we may be taxing our officers that are already stretched thin with even more calls based on the history of the other two courage locations.

As a resident of this area, we are already concerned with the extended response times and the overworked police.

We we feel our officers do not need the extra work this group home could bring to our district.

Opening a group home would take away resources.

Can I ask either one of you who has the the open records data on the police calls, what is the time frame for that?

This this time frame on this particular document.

Exactly.

You both said 11.

So you must be talking about this.

This is uh I'm sorry, into the mic, please.

It is the uh open records is got uh July 5th to October 14th, 2025.

Um, and Brand, I'd like to enter in the record one more thing that came up on Monday.

When if I were to open up and I would have built an apartment complex, I says, are we not required to have sprinkler systems in them?

As of now, this room will have nine occupants in a 1600 square foot building.

One, it's not ADA approved, there's no 88.

There's a maybe I I was told there was a wider stairway to second floor, and I said, as there's sprinkler systems in this building.

That's a lot of people to be storing on upstairs because you have to have your living space downstairs.

So you are already with Chief Lipsky saying we need to get these buildings in spring.

Yet there is nothing that's being re-hacked.

And one other thing.

Uh Brand is on Red is on tape saying that he can't wait to move into this house.

And he had this tape, uh, this video tape that's out there for everybody to see that you can't wait for everybody to move into this house, you know, in 2026.

Is this a done deal?

No, it's not, it's not it's not a done.

It's not a done deal.

I understand that, but people can buy, look, it may be a bad decision to purchase a property without knowing that you're gonna be able to use it for what you do or what you want to do, but that's kind of it's not a done deal.

That's what we're deciding now.

That's what we're working on.

And there's other there could be other permits that be required.

I don't know, probably not, but in but some of this they have to have there are state mandates for with respect to ADA compliance and all that stuff.

They have to follow not just the city ordinance, they have to follow the state ordinances, a lot of things they have to do.

And that's what I wanted to research the city.

But but this board, we don't even have per we don't even have the authority to enforce those things.

Those things are a DCF, it's just the department of children and families.

So what I want to do, because I it's we we want to you know move on, move on and get this.

And and we do these are important and everyone.

There's a lot of letters and a lot of the stuff, um, and the police stuff I don't think was in there.

So I appreciate having that information.

Um, but we want to hear from everybody that's here, and uh and and um we're gonna move down the line, uh, but we did I just want to remind him we do have all the letters, we've read all of them.

There's a lot of lot in favor and a lot of uh in opposition.

So we do have all those materials, but go ahead and just give us your name again, sir.

I'm sorry, Jan Ungamak.

Pull that mic a little closer, and then if you could spell your last name for them.

That's okay.

I don't have that one.

U N as in Nancy, G, E, M as in Mary, A C H.

Okay.

And what would you like to tell us?

Well, I have a question for the board.

If you if you okay this, it says it's for eight occupants.

Does it limit the age?

Now they're saying it's my understanding that courage incorporate is saying this is gonna be between 12 and 17, but they also have a another building where it's 18 to 24.

Now, if you don't have a limit on this saying 17 is the oldest, and they can move it up as they see fit, then the question I would have is you're looking at eight people who are going to school, working, and so they have automobiles.

Where are they going to park eight or nine automobiles?

So to answer the question about the plan of operation does say 12 to 17, I think.

I'm just trying to find it does.

It says we're licensed for youth, y'all to 17.

Youth can stay there until they turn 18.

Now, with respect, but that so that's in the plan of operation, and that's something that that they have to abide by.

But but beyond that, the ECF, the Department of Children and Families from the state of Wisconsin, they can't, they will lose if if this is approved and they have 22-year-olds living there, they will they're gonna be in trouble with the state, which is much more powerful, you know.

That then they cannot that could affect other other places.

So their plan of operation that they have before us that they're seeking approval for is 12 to 17, and that's also what they've put in the paperwork that they filed with the state and the permits they've gotten from the state.

There's two, you know, enforcement from the city of Milwaukee and and from the state that can make sure that that's that's being adhered to.

So and also if you approve this, if they decide to sell the building to another company or whatever, does this approval go with that building not necessarily?

Um there would be an opportunity for in other words, another company that would use it in the same manner, yes, right.

They would need their own occupancy permit, and then it would need to get approval through the board of zoning appeals.

Um, for most occupancies, that is a administrative approval if that new entity accepts all the rules and conditions that were approved in a situation like this.

There is a there is a safeguard where city departments are asked for input, and if we object, or the chair or the board, then what we call change of operator, they would have to come back for a public hearing themselves.

And the change of operator requires them to uh sign an affidavit stating that they're gonna adhere to the plan of operation that these folks have.

Right.

So, in other words, the only way it would seamlessly transition to a new operator is with an identical plan, but more almost more likely than not, there would be when they went to get an occupancy permit that the permit center would contact the bozo office and say we need to have a new approval, and this needs to come back before us.

There could be totally different recommendations and conditions by the staff and by the elected elders in the district.

Okay, so as far as the children are concerned, 16, 17, 18.

I don't know if they I mean 60 and 17.

I don't know if they really be able to afford a car at this point.

I I will tell you, I do some work in child welfare.

It's I would be very surprised if any of the residents would have their own vehicles.

These are children who um as was stated, or we've been removed from their family or probably under ships dispositional orders.

Uh where they're playing, they need a placement.

They're not they're when children in that situation are moving towards independent living, which is I think what you're kind of talking about with one of the other um properties that there are similar ones, that's when they start to prepare to become adults.

That's when they start to prepare to become adults.

And I don't understand this myself because when I turned, I got my driver's license the day I turned 16.

Kids these days don't even do it.

They wait and wait and wait.

And I don't understand.

I think it's rare for a 16-year-old to have a driver's license.

I don't get it.

But anyway, that's just my my two cent.

Um are you okay, John?

Are you good?

Okay.

Any anyone else um wanting to speak on this?

We'll give you one more thing.

Just one.

Okay.

Uh when I spoke to Peter by the Alderman the other day uh regarding those postcards we filled out, uh opposed, yay, nay.

He was going to accumulate there and give the results of this meeting.

Can I can I have those results of those postcards?

Well, I'll ask you I'll ask him when he comes up here.

Oh, okay.

We don't have to turn over to you already.

No, we have uh we know we got the result.

We got all of the letters and the some of the feedback from people that attended the meaning, referencing the meeting.

So I know we have these are fresh, uh, fresh letters from from I think you had one actually.

I did, and I know you did.

Um, so we have and I didn't make it.

You you guys sent the letter though and said you were gonna make it to the meeting.

There was there was somebody that did that.

I can't, there was a lot of them, so I can't remember all the names.

But yes, we're gonna ask them when they come up here.

What was the results of the postcards that they received that night?

So all right.

Real quick, but I got we gotta move this along.

Why does this say eight occupants?

Because it only has six bedrooms.

Well, it's eight eight people.

Sometimes there can be a supervisor, but that's not it.

That doesn't count as an occupant.

That doesn't matter.

That's like an employee.

Occupants are the people that are like this is this is from DC.

This is again from the state standard.

So, like a full you I would hope that you guys would want there to be a full-time person there when there's children living.

So there that's that doesn't count as an occupant, but there could be so a little bit more of how this work, and I'm sure that they the applicants can clarify too.

But you get these permissions from the state from the ECF to have X amount of occupants, and that's what they put in their plan of operation.

Now, if they have uh they may not actually be able to have eight people there because they have six bedrooms, and there may just not be two occupants that are appropriate to have as roommates for any number of reasons.

And so they'll say, Well, we can really only have six people living here now.

But there can be situations where you have you know, two, you know, people that are totally you're not gonna probably put a 17-year-old and a 12-year-old in a room together, but you may have two similar age people, maybe siblings or something that would be together as roommates.

That's fairly normal for these for this kind of thing.

That doesn't mean they're gonna cram eight people in there, even if those six bedrooms, and I say cram, it's I don't even think it really would be cramming.

I shared a room till my brother until I went to college with my brother.

So, anyway, we'll have you guys thank you very much for your comments.

We're gonna have you step back.

I would like to hear from Alderwoman Zamaripa, who's uh not she's uh serves on the common council, so it's not her district, but she did submit a letter and she had something to say.

And then I want to hear from Alderman Brigallison.

We will ask about more results of the meeting.

Um, have you guys come forward?

And then you guys can come forward too.

Go ahead.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um, and I I know your reference, so you do have the letter and in the file that I sent.

Um, if you'll allow me, it is very brief.

I wanted to read it also in hopes of perhaps um responding to some of the concerns that I heard from some of the neighbors now just now.

Um, and I I did want to add um if I could still also add a just a little chunk after I read um testimony.

Absolutely, but um, but again, I'm hoping that it could help to persuade some of the neighbors um who might not fail in support at this time.

Um, but uh I'll read the letter first.

Um, I'm writing to express my full support for the relocation of Courage House to its new home at 3416 South 88th Street.

Courage Plus provides trauma-informed supportive housing for LGBTQ plus foster involved youth, giving them a safe place to live and grow while being connected to communities that can offer a vast array of needed resources.

I have represented Courage Plus first as their state representative, and now is their alder person for their C2 apartments located in uh on Milwaukee's near South Side on National Avenue.

I can tell you that they are committed to being good neighbors and upstanding community members.

I commit to concern constituents that we just heard from today that I will work with Courage Plus leadership and your alder person and the neighbors to ensure the success of the neighborhood as well as this uh much needed resource in our community.

Courage House has a strong record of being a responsible neighborhood friendly presence.

Data shows that police involvement is rare and the organization prioritizes community safety and respectful engagement with neighbors.

Their programs help youth to develop life skills, self-confidence, and healthy relationships, which strengthens the broader neighborhood and community beyond their stay at Courage House.

I am confident that this relocation will allow Courage Plus to continue its vital work and expand its services, providing stability and support to vulnerable youth.

I fully support this move and I'm excited for the name for the community to see the positive contributions that Courage House brings to our community.

And if I can add, because I did hear some of the neighbors speak to those police calls for service.

And I I can speak to some of that because as I said, I represented I represented courage uh both in their initial location on 6th Street when I was in this Wisconsin State Assembly, and ultimately I currently represent their C2 apartments on National Avenue.

Those police calls for service are because of the communities that they've decided to um to build a home for youth in.

There they chose challenged neighborhoods.

Right now, C2 apartments is in the Clark Square neighborhood where I was born and raised.

And um I love Clark Square.

I'm looking at Kevin right now.

We both love Clark Square.

Um, and yet it is a very challenged neighborhood.

I often will say it's the grittiest part of the eighth Aldermanic district where I represent on the near south side.

Um there are there are an array of public safety issues that we're constantly working.

MPD, myself, other elected officials are constantly working towards trying to address and improve for for the community.

Um, but I can tell you uh absolutely, I mean, I remember before they even moved in to that C2 apartment um location on National Avenue, they had issues with break-ins and um people stole some of the uh equipment and furniture that they had recently purchased for the um for the new C2 apartments, and it was devastating for them.

Um and yet I thank them for for not pulling back and still um being committed to the neighborhood.

But it was at no fault of the children that call um courage home, the youth that called Courage Home or the staff.

It was unfortunate they have chosen these challenged areas and they were dealing with um some of the bad actors in these areas.

So if I can help to hopefully um uh express that to neighbors and assuage their concerns that I truly believe that they are going to be an upstanding neighbor and community partner, and I commit as a local elected leader as a South Side Alder to work with Alder Member Gellis and do everything I can to um help to bring uh all of our wonderful constituents, constituencies together.

Um, and so that's my testimony, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Alderwoman.

And I will just add some of the police calls are computer just dispatched.

It doesn't necessarily mean that there was like when there's a call for service, it doesn't mean that there's like sirens and and this.

It could be for a variety of reasons.

Um they just have it's all recorded, and there's a record.

I don't know specifically what the calls that were referenced were for.

It was a tight window, but I just want everyone to be aware that that may be a misleading uh poll from public records.

And I think Alder Member Gallus is in his district, he may shed some light on that.

Um Alderwoman Moore, did you?

I somebody told me that you wanted to say something too, or you are not told me that.

I'm not making this up.

Someone oh okay.

Okay, okay.

I did want to just echo what Alder Woman Zamaripa said.

Um the C2 apartments when they renovated them in Clark Square.

I I saw the before and after, and it was wonderfully done.

Um they they were willing to come give tours of the house and the occupants themselves were wonderful when I interacted with them.

Thank you.

All right, thank you.

And I guess let's hear from Alderman McGallis now.

I know you've got lots of uh lots of requests for information.

I just I printed out the record, uh, just so I would have it in front of me.

Um, but uh thank you for hearing this.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair, committee members.

Um, Peter Brigillis, Alder for District 11 on the South West of Milwaukee.

Um, I have um this has kind of been an amazing process.

My first neighborhood contentious uh or um uh unique um unique process uh for any neighborhood in the district.

Um I have gotten comments that I have personally enriched myself um as uh a consequence of my former uh profession.

I've gotten uh comments of uh the spirituality or the lack thereof that's appropriate or not appropriate for the neighborhood.

I have gotten um wildly inaccurate and false claims and statements about the organization, myself, the neighborhood, the children that would be in this organization's care in the property.

Um, so it has been a um an interesting lesson for me.

Knowing that this is something new to the neighborhood.

Um I asked uh for a record of all of the group homes in the district 11, and we have had two previous in the last 10 years.

One was a rehab transition home for alcohol and drug recovery, adult men, uh and that is still operating with no incident, and there have been no police related issues, nuisance complaints, or property maintenance concerns with that location, clearly with a strong operator.

There's a second group home uh near this neighborhood, a little further east, that is since closed, but it was a group home for mental health and developmentally disabled adults, and uh there were dozens of um uh concerns involving multiple parties, including staff members, uh fighting amongst themselves and with residents, um uh residents family members.

It was a very difficult uh property, and um my predecessor did shut it down uh years back.

This group home though is nothing like any of those two.

This is for foster kids.

Uh so I think that distinction legitimately was a knee-jerk reaction to the neighborhood, where a lot of people automatically said, oh, absolutely not, we don't want to deal with that again.

Uh, not really fully understanding what courage is and what courage does, and more importantly, what courage does not do and what they are not.

So I took it upon myself to have a district meeting uh in addition to the hearing that we're at today.

Um BOSA's requirement is 200 250 foot mailing.

I went about 450, 480 foot radius around the property uh to do a much uh larger mailing, about three times as much many households as what BOSA typically would be legally required under city ordinance to notify.

Uh that meeting uh was sent out and uh coordinated that same day that I received word from BOSA that this would this meeting would happen uh today on March 5th.

So on the 19th, uh we uh 19th of February, we uh coordinated that meeting and the mailing went out on Friday the 20th, and most people received that mail on Monday, uh notifying them of the that meeting.

And yes, the date was wrong.

We did rush the mailing to get out to residents right away.

Uh Sherry missed the date, I missed the date.

Three other people that looked at the draft didn't notice that it was date of 2025.

My sincere apologies for that typo.

But there is nothing on toward or um nefarious going on in the 11th older medicine, and frankly, those kinds of accusations require people in my profession to have very thick skin.

And I believe if uh neighbors and residents and constituents were more kind, that there would be more people that would want to serve the public uh in uh this kind of a capacity.

That said, we had a great meeting, around 70 people showed up, uh, some for, some against, many with questions.

And though the meeting was scheduled from 6 to 6:45, we ended the meeting around 7.45 or 8 p.m.

Uh thank you to the Milwaukee Fire Department for hosting that at Station 29, which is near this property.

Uh we called for questions several times.

A handful of people had multiple questions.

Some follow-ups were encouraged after the meeting that we just didn't have the information, mostly about BOSA processes, but uh every question that was asked was responded to, and one or two required a follow-up.

Uh postcards were distributed.

Uh, we collected those and compiled that alongside all of the other comments, emails, phone calls, uh, and uh face-to-face conversations that uh my district office has had about this.

Uh, and the results of those um uh that survey, that tally is certainly significant.

Um, but I think what is most significant is uh the results from neighbors uh in a in close proximity to the property.

Uh my close proximity is wider than the BOSA disclosure, so there may be some gaps, but that's our process.

Uh that scheduling happens at three weeks outside of that window, uh, and here we are.

That's our process.

It's not perfect, it's never going to be perfect.

Uh, but that uh but all ordinance provisions were followed, and I'd say uh exceeded uh far more than what um would typically happen in this kind of a situation.

So um I'm also a visual person, so I made a color map uh for all correspondence received.

We received 16 households that were opposed, 20 in support, and three unsure.

And that just to ask, that's with your 400 postcards.

You said with the 450 to 480.

Correct.

Um of those uh of those um respondents, most were from outside of my delivered circle.

Interesting, right?

So people who weren't notified about about the meeting care a lot more about this than the people in the immediate neighborhood.

Right.

So but of those close by in that 480 ish foot radius, uh five are opposed, eight support, and two are unsure, including the comment.

So I and I will submit this document for your public record.

Uh we can my color coded map.

Don grab that and we'll give that to you.

And I guess we can make copies for people if they ask for a public record today.

Uh so um uh a lot of questions, a lot of concerns.

Um, I think the organization did a great job answering those questions.

Um questions have been repeatedly asked and uh accused of uh the office, the process, the timeline.

Uh but um I do not, I have not received a uh reason for.

Well, let me go through the reasons of no that I've received in kind of just a summary.

Uh and some of these may be warranted, some of them may not, but that's the discretion of the body, right?

Uh, I want to feel safe and not get attacked when I go out for a walk.

My property values will decrease.

I'm concerned about the integrity of the neighborhood and higher property taxes.

Those are different people just to be clear, lower property values and higher property taxes.

Um the spiritual health of child of children, unsupervised young adults outside the home, not ADA compliant, no sprinklers.

Uh, they didn't break their lease.

Well, they also bought the house in December.

Uh concerns of notice and BOSA process.

Uh no stated reason.

Uh and uh so there I really have not received a valid reason for a credible objection.

There are plenty of neighbors in my neighborhood that don't break their leaves.

Uh, most of them bought their house before December.

Um, I will also note that the district six captain and the leadership team at District Six with the uh community liaison officers did have a meeting with Courage a week before last uh where they discussed calls for service from uh the old property uh and you know what um what kind of needs the property the the home would need, what kind of resources they would need or ask of district six.

Um uh the captain confirmed to me that there were three uh credible calls for service, although the automated um open records showed more.

Uh that is not um the calls for service don't indicate how many times service was needed, if that makes sense.

Yeah, um the captain also made a statement during the uh firehouse meeting that if there were more organizations and more properties like Courage Plus in Milwaukee, that he and his district would have far less work to do protecting the public.

And he was he's the the captain was from district six was at the meeting, correct.

So we've had we've heard a lot.

Um what's that?

Are you do you are you on this one?

Yes, let's hear from Paulin Perez is joining us.

We'll just have you quick sworn.

I know you're the president of the council, but it's not your district, so we want to hear from you.

But tell us who you are and we'll get useful.

Well, set that is Alderman 12th district and common council president.

You affirm under oath that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

I do okay, thank you.

So I I'm not gonna take up much time, but I do will there was some confusion with uh Brad as for uh so a letter of support, and uh there was some confusion with an item he has in my district that's on consent.

And I'm like, you don't need a letter of support, you're on the consent agenda, but it was for this item, and so I apologize about that.

But I'm here, I'll just testify in person since I couldn't get it in the record in writing.

But um, Courage has been has uh property in my district for many years, and um they've been stellar stewards of the community, and um they were given Bulls up, they were granted Bowza.

How many years has that been now?

Five yeah.

Okay.

So in the entire time, um, that location has been nothing but a blessing to the neighborhood.

They've been great stewards, great neighbors, helped in the community, have done walks, have kept it clean, and they've just been uh the best to work with.

And I wanted to put that on the record.

I know that uh they're well represented in the 11th district by all the member Gellis, but I thought I wanted to provide part of the testimony for their occupancy.

I'm sad that they're leaving Sixth Street, but they have another location where they have um they're creating a center on 10th Street that will be before you uh next cycle.

But um, as they move into the 11th to provide a better space for young people and have more room, I can provide better opportunities and development.

I just wanted to testify that they're my experience with them in the 12th automatic district was a great experience.

They've done a lot for the community and taking ownership of the block they live on very much in a in a needed area, they made a difference.

So I wanted just to get that on the record and appreciate their work and uh the leadership I'll member Gellis moving forward in the 11th.

Thank you very much, uh President Rez.

So I I'll just make a couple of comments.

I know we've gone way longer than I thought, but this was important because um frankly, this is more this is like probably longer than it would have been if we would have rescheduled it for a contested hearing and everyone had noticed and came and wanted to speak today.

So it was important to do this.

Um I will you know note that there are always going to be concerns about group homes.

Um, and there's many different kinds of group homes, and this I think is is atypical.

There aren't many of this specific type of group home, other than I think pretty much the only game in town, and that's a need that the city has.

And um, so I think it's fair to for neighbors to be apprehensive, but we the the when they're when and it's probably like a Swiss watch that we can count on people complaining or not, you know, being concerned, raising potential concerns about property taxes and values and things like that.

There's sort of but that's not generally what happens, and what we do know and have evidence of is that we have uh various uh representatives who have had experiences with this applicant in their district, is heard from President Perez, and that uh we have the testimony through uh or the representation through Alderman Regalis that the district six police captain came and was in support of this, and um actually when you have kind of I don't know who's in the room, but I was talking about the tow truck.

This can be very it can be a nuisance property.

We have a good operator, it it can be run very well.

Group home operators are the same, and it can be a it's it's usually a net benefit to a community and it's well operated and a help to law enforcement, a good partner um in the neighborhood, and that is what we have heard from from people that have had experiences with this applicant in other districts and what uh we've heard today from Alderman Burgalis, who held the community meeting.

I want to make a note, and I actually think that frankly it's kind of an impressive turnaround in my opinion, that you're able to get uh a meeting put together, a comprehensive meeting.

I understand everyone's gonna be happy, but that was a that that's hard to do.

Um I would have expected that we would have had uh with the short window of time, I would have expected that we would have had to have an adjournment for a meeting, but you were able to do it, which is you know, I think good.

Otherwise, these things kind of can drag on.

So I think that the response from the uh from your office was pretty good, and I think that um we have all the information we need to move forward, and we have to make a decision based on the criteria for special use, which is the protection of public health safety and welfare, protection of property, traffic and pedestrian safety and consistency with a comprehensive plan.

We have heard input from our traffic engineer uh from the department of public works who's not identified any disruption to traffic and pedestrian safety, and we also understand that we're talking about most residents won't even be able to drive and probably won't have any kids with cars anyway.

And it's not really that uh much of a uh enhanced uh use as compared to like a normal family home where you might have three unrelated people living together, each with their own car.

So I don't think we're gonna have um, I don't think that we've had that we've heard any problems.

And I think that when I was speaking earlier about the property taxes and things like that, um we we've heard we don't know what's going to happen in this district in this district with this use, but we know that historically previous uses by the same operator haven't had a negative impact on uh on the other adjacent neighborhoods for enjoyment of their property.

And I think that goes part and parcel too with protection of public health safety and welfare.

We we also know that there's not a geographic concentration of these as for uh information given us by Ald Member Gallus.

If there's only uh make sure I got this right, but in your there's two, there had been two 10 years.

There have been two in the last 10 years, one is currently closed.

So there's not a geographic concentration.

Um so I those are you know, I I feel that this is a plan of operation that is in for that is enforceable, and the mechanisms for enforcement is as I indicated through DNS through the ECF.

If they don't uh abide by their state licensing, they can lose it.

And you have an elder who's been very active and put into a meeting, and and you know, that's that's the another uh mechanism for making sure that neighborhood is protected is bringing that to his attention who will then certainly bring that to DNS's attention if there's an issue.

Um, and we have we heard from the police uh captain that there's not an anticipated um this won't there's not an anticipation from law enforcement that there will be a negative impact in on the protection of the public health safety and welfare.

So um, I don't know if there's additional questions or comments.

I don't I've read all the materials.

I don't, I know you guys just got to make a statement.

Not trying to cut cut it short, but you've submitted a comprehensive uh packet for us to review.

Um I didn't I I don't know if there's any specific uh concerns that you can address or kind of dealt with in the meeting.

I think that this is more of like a in the future if problems arise, things need to be dealt with.

I'm sorry, go ahead.

I would just like to say, and this will be shocking to some, but I've been involved with the Board of Zoning Appeals for 18 years.

Um I can tell you that I have never once in in my time with BOSA have seen three alder men, older people come and testify in support of a group home.

Um, yes, four come in support of a group home.

Um just as relevant is I've very rarely seen group homes that have um had the kinds of concerns and issues that are often raised at this point in their juncture.

It is understandable for um many residential communities to be unsure to be wary about what's going to happen.

Um but when a group home is well operated and um is working closely with its elected officials and with its neighbors, it will look very similar to any other neighborhood home, you know, where you may have kids coming, adults coming and um so it's not uncommon to hear some of the concerns that were raised today.

Um, but what I have seen in the plan of operation, um, and certainly um what I've seen from the or what I've heard from the testimony of others who have had your facilities in their districts, it is that this is a very well-run organization.

It is a um very responsible and responsive organization.

And with that said, to the point of what the operation is, it is a group home.

It is the place for youth to live.

It shall it should operate very similar to a home, and as such, being located in a residential neighborhood is appropriate.

Uh, it is protective of the the um property values, it's not changing the the nature of the the use of the property at all.

It's protective of the public health safety and welfare.

Uh, it's being thoughtful about that geographic confration piece, you know, the fact that there's only one in the 11th district.

I think some of your elders uh elsewhere in the city would be a little bit surprised and jealous to hear that.

Um, but uh, you know, there's nothing that would lead me to believe that this operation would substantially impact anybody's ability to enjoy their property rights as is.

And uh regarding that pedestrian and traffic safety, again, this will operate very similar to any other residential property, perhaps even differently without having a lot of vehicles for the young people.

So I have no concerns about moving forward with approving this special use.

Um, and unless any other board members have questions, I can make a motion.

Um having found the four criteria necessary to grant a special use have been met based on the testimony provided today, the ample record, um, the input from staff.

I would move to approve this uh special use for a period of three years, subject to the conditions in the summary second secretary, board member St.

Arnold Bell.

I board member Rucker.

Hi, board member Ferrand.

Hi, Vice Chairman Snyski and Chairman Lomberg.

Okay.

Thank you, everyone.

Thank you.

Next item, item number 26.

1925 West National Avenue request to occupy a portion of the premises as an assembly hall and to continue occupying the premises as an assembly and a monastery are both permitted uses.

Is there anyone online for 1925 West National Avenue that would like to speak?

Please raise your hand.

Uh just the people online, sorry.

Okay, Mr.

Chair, I don't see anyone online for this item.

Um, could you just give us your name and mailing address section?

Uh Kevin K E V I N Perkins P-E-R K-I-N-S, the address 1925 West National Avenue.

Good afternoon, Mr.

Chair or members.

Well, I want to say much pass.

I'm sorry.

I just have this where you went.

You affirm under oath that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Yes, thank you.

One second, I want to hear from the city department so that you may have response.

Nothing to ask DNS, nothing additional.

All right.

Good afternoon, Mr.

Chair, board members, panel members, city of Milwaukee.

Okay, I guess you guys go first and then we'll be got your um we we got the application.

There was, I don't know.

Did you you you've been a communication with President Perez, correct?

Yes.

Do you have his um do you have this letter that he submitted just today?

No, I don't know.

Can you get a copy of that?

Okay, um so we have uh I'll and I'll kind of summarize what it is.

You have a lot going on at this uh how long have you been in operation?

I just joined the board, probably December.

Okay.

So because they've been in existence for a while, but anything I put my name on, I want to make sure it's done properly.

And I guess it's been done, I wouldn't say it hasn't been done properly in the years before.

So I decided when I can become a part of the board, I'll make sure everything is done to protocol.

Yep, and sort of so there's a lot of different uses going on.

Um there's some stuff going on with licensing and trying to get uh liquor licenses to you to um operate and the assembly hall, um all these all these uses have kind of come to a head, and and and there's various different city departments you have to go to.

So this what President Perez is asking is well that kind of gets ironed out.

And so I think the prior approval was for 10 years.

He doesn't have an objection per se to the request, which is um the assembly hall and then continuation of the of the religious assembly in the in the uh monastery, the monastery permitted uh which is permitted use.

Um the two that you're here for is uh is he doesn't have an objection to.

It's just doesn't was wanting us to not grant a long longer approval, like a renewal essentially for the full 10 years because he wants the whole vision to come together with with in within the other city department's licensing, et cetera.

So that's what is that's what this letter is.

Okay, and I think my my main concern was the prayer hall when I back in because I guess it's a um provisionary or conditional or conditional um occupancy because I was informed that I had to get um one of the architects to come and do uh um assembly analysis, so to speak, which is the actual first floor for the assembly hall.

The only reason I wanted to get the occupancy for the second, I mean for the second level, I had to cancel five funerals.

Yeah.

So where someone can have their family funeral there for free.

I had to send them out somewhere else and then to make them feel better, come out of my pocket to ensure the cost for them.

Yeah, we it's we we don't want to hold this up.

And and the recommendation previously was for uh without um any input from the from the alderman of the district was for a ten-year approval, and it's president for simply asking to just do a shorter approval.

So you can continue to operate, you'll have your conditional use permits, it'll be fine while you work through uh the other city departments.

We have all the materials in front of us.

rule there for free i had to send them out somewhere else and then to make them feel better come out of my pocket to ensure the cost for them yeah we it's we we don't want to hold this up and and the recommendation previously was for uh without um any input from the from the alderman of the district was for a 10 year approval and it's president prez is simply asking to just do a shorter approval so you can continue to operate you'll have your conditional use permits it'll be fine while you work through uh the other city departments we have all the materials in front of us um i don't i don't i don't think we need uh significant testimony on this um i think we're just being asked which is in our discretion we're being asked to do a uh a shorter approval so that we can you know get a just kind of see everything that's going to be happening in the various other city departments for that that's fine what's going on so I guess if there's a does anybody have a uh concern or recommendation for what would they consider to be a short approval you're operating now you don't have to do anything right so you can no haven't been operating it's been just it's shut so I think I I think a one year approval would be fine in this sort of situation since it's since he's immediately ready to go that's just for the second level though just this is for both this is for both this is the yeah the yes yeah just strictly for the prayer because according to everyone bullseye I have to have um I have to have that analysis done for the second floor yeah things you're portion of the premises is an assembly hall then the continuing occupation is a religious assembly so there's two things would it probably keep them together since there's a lot of uses in this building okay our motion here having fun with the criteria necessary for the special use of the method wish I was thinking that this would be approved for a period of three years with any conditions in the hearing so someone disagrees with what's ready so is that a second to a through henry's motion by second by uh board member rucker seconds madam secretary board member same arnold bell uh board member rocker board member current aye vice chairman svensky and chairman lumber all right okay three years you got some time to figure it all out one quick question so I know you guys have some time so hypothetically in another year I decide to buy out that building and I've talked to state already they want to keep it as a historic landmark and I guess I can get some type of funding with the state to re help me reestablish a building because of first I wanted to knock it completely down yeah I don't read the but they want to keep it as a historic landmark but do I come back and there's a different there's historical preservation society for you have that the rules and regs that okay if that if there's a new uh occupancy needed and you have to come back before Bozo that might affect like be kind of incorporated into a condition but we are not the determining body for with respect to historical preservation thank you okay next item item number 27 312 West Virginia Street request occupy the premises as a light motor vehicle body shop is there anyone online for 312 Virginia Street please raise your hand if you'd like to speak chair i don't see anyone raising their hand online for 312 virginia at this time let's hear from the two of you i mean let's get your names and mailing address and have you sworn and we'll hear from the city departments go ahead and Jason Keller West Virginia we'll send the bill for that all right now you all now we have to pay you okay could you give us your or sorry could you please raise your right hands the affirm under oath that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth thank you nothing to add DNS CD nothing additional right um it's pretty straightforward uh any questions from board members no question I would just note that there was um one letter of objection on the file which uh you know it just said there was some questions about whether or not the air quality could be negatively impacted looking at the property the sites uh the layout of the stalls or the phase for repair I think uh it appears that you have the ability to do all work indoors without kind of any work spilling into the the neighboring properties so yeah so we all that we want to make sure all the we keep the air quality yeah right and into the microphone sorry into the microphone please it's just as important to us um what's how long is your lease for on this property five years with the one option to read okay and then do you have any um do you have a time frame of you know once you get your occupancy when you can when you're gonna be ready to start operating oh we're ready but as as of right now we just been kind of getting finishing setting up and finalizing so we're we're ready okay I'll make

Um what's how long is your lease for on this property?

Five years with the one option to remain.

Okay, and then do you have any um do you have a time frame of you know once you get your occupancy when you can when you're going to be ready to start operating?

Oh, we're ready, but as of right now, we've been kind of getting finishing setting off and finalizing.

So we're we're ready.

Okay.

I'll make a motion.

Go ahead.

Having found the uh core criteria necessary to grant specialties have been met based on the testimony provided today, the information on the file, and the um input from staff, I would move to approve this for a period of five years, subject to the conditions in the hearing subject.

Second.

Second by the board member currents, madam secretary.

Board member San Ronald Bow.

Aye, board member Rocker.

Hi.

Board Member Current, hi.

Vice Chairman Snyski.

Chairman Lomberg.

Thank you.

All right.

Item number 28, 1909 West Lane Avenue has been adjourned.

Item number 29, 4727 South Howell Avenue has been adjourned.

The next item is item number 30, 1901 West Morgan Avenue.

Request to construct a uh request to construct a detached garage that exceeds the maximum allowed lot coverage and does not meet the minimum required side street setback.

Um 1901 West Morgan Avenue.

And is there anyone online for 1901 West Morgan Avenue that would like to speak?

Please raise your hand.

It's another yeah, it's not oh okay.

So yeah, that I'm not a member of your cult.

Okay, thanks.

Just check in this saying so all right.

Um let's have Mr.

Nevis give us his name and mailing address and then be sworn, and then we'll hear from the city departments.

We know we're we I feel like I live here now, this house, because we've seen this so many times.

Anyway, go ahead.

And then raise your right hand.

Do you affirm under oath that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Right.

DPW the DPW has concerns regarding the proposed dimensional variances for a detached garage.

The applicant has submitted plans for two potential garage designs.

For the smaller garage, the proposed plan places the face of the garage five feet from the edge of the public sidewalk.

Uh paved public sidewalk for the larger design, the proposed plan places the face of the garage three feet three inches from the paved public sidewalk.

For the survey included in the record, the property line is two feet from the edge of the sidewalk.

In either case, the proposed distance between the paved public sidewalk and the east face of the garage is less than what would have been previously proposed.

For both options, DPW continues continues to be concerned that vehicles accessing the garage, particularly when loading and unloading materials and equipment stored in the garage will be parked over the public sidewalk.

DBW also continues to be concerned regarding the potential use of the proposed garage as a contractor's shop.

Revised floor plans submitted by the applicant, still show tools and materials being stored in the garage attic.

Further, the first floor plan indicates that a cement mixer and trailers will be stored in the garage.

DPW notes that the property, while not particularly small, is not particularly large, and loading of material equipment and materials from the garage may be disruptive to neighboring properties.

DPW notes that the applicant has not provided a hardship that is not of their own making that would necessitate building a garage that is larger than the 540 square feet allowed, or that is within the side seat side street setback.

Should the Board of Zoning Appeals choose to grant this special use, DPW requests the following conditions.

Um of these are standard.

The one I want to emphasize is that the plans show that the driveway approach would be centered on the proposed garage door.

However, the existing, unless there's nothing to indicate that he is proposing to build a new driveway approach.

The existing driveway approach that's out there is probably 10 or 12 feet wide.

It's lined up with the drive the single car garage that is out there currently.

So there would be finagling that would have to happen if this if the garage, excuse me, if the existing driveway approach were to remain.

So we would request that if you guys grant this, that he build a new driveway approach to actually match what he is proposing or what he builds, so that we don't wind up with weird maneuvering happening to access the garage.

Because essentially we would have vehicles going over the sidewalk or the tree border to make it work.

As it is, he's got an extra wide uh bit of pavement where that was not previously paved, and you can see tire treads on the Google Street view of you know where they're jumping the curb to go in the angle to get where they need to be.

Thank you.

Uh DNS.

No additional comments.

Again, this is a case where there's he's seeking to build a garage that uh he really doesn't have the space for this kind of a massing issue.

Uh we do have the concern uh that this is expressed by DPW that the uh proposed uh garage would be in such a manner that it'd be almost up to the street.

One of the sightings on this is uh for occupying the side street setback, and uh the code requires that uh the side street setback is determined by the um principal building.

So um that's got to be set back a significant distance.

Uh what this plan proposes with this garage.

Um one of the reasons it's coming forward closer to the street is that the petitioner seeks to uh have a jacuzzi or a garden kind of behind the garage, and we don't believe this is a hardship to wash ramping the uh variance.

What was the previous the original plan?

What was this?

I I know there okay.

So my we've had this, this is the third time.

The original the main main concern was the overall size, and he shrunk that down, and it's significantly reduced, and I don't have a huge problem with that.

But now we're we're getting worse in one part and getting right up on the sidewalk.

I know that you had raised some concerns with like a vehicle, like before there really wasn't enough room, but at least it was off the street.

I mean, there's under any plans that have ever been submitted, there've not really been room to park in the front.

Yeah, well, we've had issues all the way along.

Uh this actually is worse than what was previously.

I don't remember exactly.

I think the original proposal was going to be closer to where the existing garage is currently.

Um, the existing garage is tight.

Yeah.

Um, however, he has always proposed a garage that was deeper than what is presently existing.

But that would just sort of the the stock, the the actual footprint of the garage.

Um, if we assume that we allow the space, that could be built with the no set required.

He could build a two-car garage right now that would fit zoning.

Two plus is what Pete's telling me.

So he could, without a variance, build a two-car garage, and DPW would just have to be like because it would be code compliant.

We are only here because he wants a garage that's too big and he wants a garage that's in the side street setback.

I right, and I but but I guess my question is because I just am not able to process this all the way you guys have looked at this with the lot coverage.

If we if we'd say you can do this garage, 500 and square uh excuse me, 616 square feet, can that be built?

It'll take up his jacuzzi spot, but will it can it meet the setback requirement?

From your plan though, I mean I don't know how precise the plans are to be able to calculate that.

Yeah, I mean, so I I mean, just looking at the lot coverage, yeah.

He would be permitted 540 square feet, that would get him a two-car garage.

I know, and I get it, but there's been a lot of discussion about why, and this is a modest variance is with respect to coverage, but I don't what I don't what we can't what I don't think we should condone is you know, was really really worse to try to get you to get the best thing you can as much as what you want on your property, but now it's getting worse in another way, and there is not you.

I think you've given us not like a like a month on on online, as they didn't need it.

Well, you've you your testimony from previous hearings.

I and I know that this this record is incorporated for previous years.

I know we we denied it, but we reopened it because you dramatically changed your plans enough that we thought it was a modified that we the board voted and gave you a re-hearing based on new plans and new information, and your previous testimony.

I was at least satisfied with why you wanted the space, but the reason that you need the set that you say you need the setback is because you want to still have some of your yard.

That's not it.

Um setback is getan lejos on esta de la seda.

Oh see what was what we're well because okay, but having it be too close to the sidewalk, um the garage to the microphone, please.

You just into the microphone, please and six nine inches for the saga six inches for the drop in 17 inches to the it started to the garage to the sidewalk.

Well, so what I'm in what I I mean to streamline this, what I'm inclined to recognize 14 inches, think of 14 feet.

Okay, so what you're saying is you believe it where you the way you want to build this garage, it's gonna be 14 feet set back away from this curve, in which case you know your plan if you build not the curve, it's sidewalk outside what's from the sidewalk.

I'm sorry, is that what you're saying from the sidewalk or from the street?

No, no, no.

Right.

No, that's in bright of play.

Yeah, what he's saying is that he's you've got to be at the right, he doesn't have there's a misunderstanding here someplace, right?

So what I'm in what I meant, what I've heard, what we've heard is you wanted to have a bigger garage, which is gonna increase before gonna be set back further, and that was gonna take away some more of your backyard.

We we didn't there was neighbors and those reasons that you that we didn't allow you to do that, but you've come back with a new plan with a little bit smaller than smaller garage, which still gives you some of the extra more.

Your your new plan is a little bit smaller than what you asked us before.

Right, and that's okay.

That's good.

And we that's why we said let's hear this again, because we thought that was a big enough change.

But I don't we're not I don't want to have to then move it forward now.

You like well, and I have a smaller garage, but now I can build a jacuzzi.

You don't need that.

We have to which we're trying to work with you here, but I'm inclined to recommend, unless board members disagree, that we we have grant the maximum lot coverage and we deny the setback.

He's gonna have to build a garage that complies with the setback variance uh requirement.

Um, and that's gonna be really important for you to make sure you know that you're doing it right because if you do it wrong, you can get fined and you have to tear it down and do do work over again.

Um I I am a little, I mean, I think you're right that I'm comfortable with that generally.

I'm a little bit concerned that we're not that even if we do that, we won't end up getting what we need.

So there's not enough room for the garage and the jacuzzi.

Right, it's one or the other.

Uh sufficient for el garage y el jacuzzi.

So the the the size of your garage is fine, it's too close to the sidewalk.

Well no, no, okay.

He says that what we're trying to tell him now is that the garage needs to be further back, correct?

And I said, Yeah, the regulations tell you that, yeah.

It does find the you changed it the unchanged the the the 28 to 30 and up with everything on the back okay, only two feet.

Yeah, see two different size garages as part of the uh plan of the information that's provided to us.

I'm not already any decisions, so I don't have actual direct information to do it.

So what I want to do, Mr.

Ne is yeah, you need to get this right, you need to go to the boza office, and you need to have one plan, and it's gotta be very clear.

And it's got to be very clear.

I got one plan for you in here.

Um is it in our back or move with the garage in the back?

Right here.

So that's like five feet.

For the board noard to the street.

The proposal to deny the side yard setback and the street setback and approve the ladder.

That can be handled at the permit center.

Right.

Uh he may not get the square foot area that he's proposing because of the limit of space.

Uh, but the permit center will will work with that.

Certainly understand uh that uh if you want to adjourn, understand that as well, but I'm not guaranteeing that we're not gonna go through this game.

Well, that's what I was worried about, and that's I would like I think if we this is the we can also put a condition that until well actually doesn't even have to be a condition because he's not gonna get the permit until there's a plan that comports with the I we can't keep doing this.

This is just going on and on and on and on, and I understand you know you're changing things around, but we gotta get you want to build this thing.

Let's get it, let's get a plan that we can that you can do, right?

This is that's the two.

I know, but you can't bring it right here.

Go ahead.

Can we just make it simple?

And he's not that far off right from the size of a standard two-car garage.

Just have him build a standard two-car garage.

He has looking, I'm staring at page 17 of the ebook.

There is a survey, the property line the the house is approximately 14 feet back at the property line, that is approximately 16 feet back from the high edge of the sidewalk, the near edge of the sidewalk.

That's where the face of the garage needs to be to avoid the side street setback.

And then he's got whatever amount of space is left.

That's how much depth he can have.

I got my motorcycle, I got my joke.

I got everything that I want to put in down everything in my garage.

I don't want to put in that.

I don't think he has a little bit bigger garage to do that.

I just want to make sure that this happens.

It's like I don't want to keep coming back, and I don't want to have uh this kit built and then be wrong.

So if you're right, but in this point, yeah, with all of the plans that are in the file, I agree with Mr.

Stravansky.

I can't figure out what you guys are approving or not approving.

All right, but the 76 square feet overage, it doesn't over a typical two-car garage or whatever you're saying.

That that has really not a lot to do with where the front of it sits.

So my opinion is that that's 76 square feet at the end of the day.

Doesn't really matter.

Like I'm okay with that extra square footage as long as long as the line right.

That's kind of what I was getting in this.

Right.

So I think I think we need to if that's gonna happen.

Uh we need to have the singular plan submitted.

I don't know if this is possible, submitted to the book's office before he can even go and get his permit.

I mean, what I after hearing what uh Mr.

Lairton Larittson said, if there is consensus here that we're generally okay with the size of the garage at 60 or 616 square feet, I would be comfortable approving that and then deny the um rear setback, and that way he'll have to sort it out at plan exam, get the proper permits to do it.

Do you have confidence that that's gonna work?

Yeah, I you may want to advise the applicant that uh he may not get that square foot, right?

And it's totally up to the board if they're gonna entertain other dimensional setback variances along the interior side lot line or the rear lot line for those setbacks.

You see what I'm saying?

So this is the deal, Mr.

Navies.

We're I think what's I'm hearing is we're gonna we're inclined to approve your size of your garage, 616 square feet, 76 square feet bigger than what you're allowed to build, but you're going to have to make sure it's 14 feet away from the setback, which is required.

You're not gonna get that.

That's gonna make it your backyard smaller.

You are going to have to go to the permit center.

Wait, wait, wait.

Oh, yeah, go ahead.

See, and then um probably levanta para que el garage sea suficientemente grande, pero batender que start uh significant la casa donde la casa um circa de la 19.

Pero batender que start uh significant la casa donde la casa um circa de la 19 okay le van a dar su according to the survey the house is 23 feet wide and there's approximately three feet between the the west edge of the house and the west property line beyond that route beyond uh the setback of the house.

We're saying no, so you're gonna you have other codes you have to do so we're gonna give you per we're gonna let you build a bigger garage if it can fit.

You're gonna have to make sure that it's 14 feet away from this front from the side street, and then there may be other variant requirements, but like distances from the lot line and things like that.

You're gonna go to the permit center, and you're gonna say I want to build this garage.

Here's my plan.

Is this gonna work?

And they're gonna say looks like you can do it, but it's or they're gonna say it's not gonna it can't do it without getting these additional variances.

You may have to shrink it down a little bit.

We're gonna let you build a bigger garage, but it's you have to you have to have it set back from the street.

Pero acera, okay.

Yes, well, the sixteen well for it says 14 from the it's 14 feet from the east property line, yeah.

The edge of the sidewalk is a digital two feet, sand or a sidewalk, right?

Acera, yeah.

Okay, so the SCS.

Okay, perdon.

Um 16 pieces, but it's the the house, right?

The house is the limit.

Okay, okay, el limites la casa de del garage correcto.

So 23 feet, then which is the width of the house because otherwise there's the rear set.

There's a yeah, yeah.

23 pieces, correct?

As far as I'm concerned, I don't care what that the plans change if the permit center gives them the permission, giving him permission to build if he can fit it in with all the setbacks as a garage that's 66 feet, 16 square feet.

The back to the how with 23 feet, and to the other side to the other side is 2022, it's like um 500 um 5040 five six forty six feet and here that might be then the limit.

That's just the deal.

Yeah, so that's so oh wait.

I we're I don't know.

We're we heard this, we've done it over and over.

What is the board wanna do?

Yeah, we're we're I'm fine granting it for the first one, and then if it can only be actually four feet bigger, so be it.

That's just the way it's gonna be.

You think you gotta put it down like seven thousand dollars for coming to here, and I want to give you you got only four feet.

And then I see in the 19th street nine nine um 190 19 00.

Like 16 inches to the sidewalk, 16 inches.

Well, that just because other houses do.

I mean, that's we have to be we can't just say well, somebody built a bat something that was you know not to code that means everyone gets to right.

So all right, we gotta we gotta do something.

What's the pleasure of the word?

I'll make motion to grant the dimensional variance to allow a max to allow garage that exceeds the maximum of black coverage, um and I would propose then denying the variance um for the side stream setback, all right.

So that is a motion.

If there's no second, we can discuss it.

Um the what's that back?

Uh side century.

Not the side stream.

That's what it says here.

Oh, does that meet the minimum require side street setback?

Can you repeat your your motion?

Um, to grant the um maximum lack coverage, but deny the side streets back.

Um, garage un poco más grande, pero no va a poder hacer el retroceso de la calle.

The six the caterpillars.

Second.

Board member rocker.

I board member current.

I'm chairman Smysky.

Oh and Chairman Lumberg.

Right.

You have permission to build this garage if you can fit it.

Doesn't we might not be able to be as big as you want?

We have to follow the rest of the setbacks.

O sea, tiene que estar equal a la casa.

And this se puede communicar con el permit center ando de ocho centros nine, para ver cómo lo puede hacer.

No, aquí no, no in este edificio.

And el edificio oh, el edificio ocho centro nine.

Yeah, see, see, con ella.

Right.

So no present.

No, I just question it.

Thank you.

So I have that case next.

It might start all that.

I'm fine.

I'm fine.

Yeah.

Never make the lineer roll of those.

You never make an interview.

This is terrible as that.

And then we get through like the story.

I actually have enough of the work that I can.

Oh, thank you for thinking.

Yeah.

Probably.

I mean that's why.

Okay.

Karen, are you back yet?

I am here, ready to go.

Thank you.

All right.

A little bit behind.

We had some lengthier hearings, but we can start our um 315 calendar.

And um, for those of you pretty much all been sitting here already.

When your case is called, you can come forward and um we'll get your name and mailing address.

We'll hear from the city departments.

We'll may have some uh public comment and then we'll may have some questions we can uh take each item in order and hopefully come to a decision.

Uh while India is helping Vice Chair Schmidt with his uh with this tablet will have item 31 come forward, ZDH holdings.

And Mr.

Chair, do you mind if I just um restate the that we have two adjournments on the 315 calendar?

Um item number 35, 1510 West State Street was adjourned, and item number 37, 8302 West Lisbon Avenue has been adjourned.

So uh those two items will not be heard today.

Um so first item, item number 31, 2128 West Vonduck Avenue.

Request to occupy the premises as a daycare center for 49 children per shift, infant to 13 years of age operating Monday through Friday from 6 a.m.

to 7 p.m.

and Saturday from 6 a.m.

to 6 p.m.

Um is there anyone online for that would like to speak on 2128 West Lack Avenue?

We do have one person with their raised hand Nicholas Robinson, you're self-muted.

Yes, um, I'm the architect for that project.

So I guess if there's any questions or I guess anything that needs to be clarified, I'm here for that purpose.

Thank you.

Okay, um, so ma'am, could you give us your name and mailing address, please?

Absolutely.

My name is Adela Deakin, and my mailing address is 1626 West Fondalegging.

Thank you.

And Mr.

Robinson, could you also give us your name and mailing address as well?

Yes, Nicholas Robinson.

Uh mailing address is 6616 North 51st Street in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 5323.

Thank you.

And if you could both please raise your right hands.

Do you affirm under oath that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Yes.

Yes.

Thank you.

All right.

Let's hear from DPW.

So generally, DPW has no objection.

That said, I want to emphasize uh we are requesting that the main daycare entrance be from the northwest side of the building to be accessed from 2134 West Fondalek Avenue.

Um previous plans had shown that the daycare entrance would be off of the alley.

DPW is generally opposed to using an alley to access a building entrance.

Alleys are not designed for pedestrian traffic, they're not ADA compliant, they're not generally maintained as well as sidewalks or streets.

And frankly, um yeah, they're not plowed, they're not cleaned, they're not, yeah, there's the they're just not well maintained unless the adjacent property owner takes it upon themselves.

Um and then we are also requesting that no loading and unloading of children occurs in the adjacent public alley.

Uh please use the parking lot.

Um we don't want to block the alley that is main access to get to the Fonday market.

So on market days, um, that would be con that could potentially be congested.

Thank you, DNS.

No additional comment DCD, nothing additional.

All right.

Board members have any questions for either the applicant or the architect.

Those conditions make sense for BPW.

Um they do.

Um I mean, we would maintain the alley, but you know, if that's a concern for the city, then you know we'll abide by that.

I have one question.

Can you um what is your um interest in the property?

Are you leasing to you lease our own and how much are you investing in the um redevelopment?

So I am the owner of the the building, and we are developing uh four different spaces within the building.

Um one is salon suite's coffee shop that's soon to be open as well as office spaces and the daycare is the last one that we made approval to move forward um with.

Um I'm once we get this approval, we can start um with the build out, and I do have two operators that um are wanting to um run the daycare on the property.

Okay.

Okay, that's helpful.

I don't have any other questions.

Um my fellow board members ready for a motion.

Okay.

Uh having uh found that the criteria necessary to grant uh the special use and variants have been met based on the testimony provided today and the technical review conducted by staff and the um information in the file.

I would move to approve this for a period of three years, subject to the conditions in the hearings.

Okay, okay, no board member St.

Arnota.

Hi.

Board member Rocker.

Aye, board member current.

Aye, Vice Chairman Smith speaker and chairman Lomberg.

All right, all right.

Three years.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

Next item, item number 32, 4912 West Villard Avenue.

Request to continue occupying the premises as a light motor vehicle repair and a light motor.

Sorry, light motor vehicle repair facility and ground transportation service facility.

Um, is there anyone online for 4912 West Villard Avenue that would like to speak?

Please raise your hand if you'd like to speak on and Mr.

Chair, I don't see any raised hands at this time.

Hello, could you give us your name and mailing address, please?

Hi, my name is Shallan Bellat.

Uh at Jersey 7300 was the road, Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Okay.

And then could you please raise your right hand?

Do you affirm under oath that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Yes.

And are you you're are you the applicant on this file?

Um, the lease.

Okay.

It's a different name.

Right.

DPW.

The Department of Public Works has concerns regarding the continuation of the light motor vehicle repair at ground transportation service facility.

The deep department of neighborhood services has submitted a sizable packet of information regarding enforcement history at 4912 West Villard Avenue.

DPW notes that photos included in the packet appear to show inoperable vehicles needing more work than light mechanical work as described in the plan of operations submitted by the applicant.

Further photos submitted by the applicant show a tow truck parked on the street.

DPW notes that the plan of operations states that the tow truck would be stored in the garage.

Given the contradictions that appear in the applicant's submissions and the information submitted by DNS, DPW does not support continuation of the special uses at the subject premises.

Should the Board of Zoning Appeals choose to grant the special use at this property?

Special uses at this property, DPW requests a series of standard conditions.

DNS based on a review of the information submitted by the petitioner relative to this proposal and without benefit of any testimony which may be presented at the Board of Zoning Appeals hearing.

The Department of Neighborhood Services finds that the criteria for the special uses under 295311 of the city code have not been met.

Over the past 10 years, the department has received complaints that were verified, resulting in multiple orders, fines, fees, and penalties.

The department has submitted a packet of records and photos supporting the statement.

Additional records and photos from prior years enforcement actions can be provided if requested.

The department opposed the appeal in 2012, 2014, 2021, and 2023.

The board approved the October 2023 special use.

By March of 24, a complaint was received and verified of a salvage operation at the property.

This operation provides no benefit to the surrounding neighborhood, contrary to the aim of the LB2 district.

The department has demonstrated the business is a detriment to the community and the and the use value and enjoyment of other property in the area has been diminished by the establishment.

The applicant either has willfully not complied with city ordinance and board of zoning appeals conditions of approval or is not in control of the lot.

In either circumstance, the special use request should be denied.

This is an instance where it may be best for the community to have no vehicular uses at the site for three years.

At that time with a known repair garage applicant that can show a successful business history in Milwaukee of being a good neighbor to the community.

Perhaps an application for a repair garage could be considered.

Should the board approve these special uses, we have standard conditions.

I will highlight, I did add uh that the uh item 11.

Under no circumstances is the property access through the northern fence gates on the alley.

I will confess this is going to be almost impulse impossible for DNS to enforce again back to the nature of towing operations.

They're 24-7.

The complaints consistently are uh involve uh use of the alley.

Uh, I can go into a further uh story if the board wishes to hear to supplement my the department's concern as to exactly who is who is controlling this lot.

Uh I can go into that if we wish to, uh, but at this point I'll hand off to DCD.

Well, the yeah, let's come back to that.

Go ahead, DCD.

Uh uh DNS has presented a pretty thick and strong record of the problems with this site.

And based off of that, DCD finds that the proposed special use uh does not meet the criteria of protection of property or protection of health safety and welfare.

Uh if the board does approve this, uh we do want uh some upgrades and landscaping of we do not object to uh the uh wood fence, which my understanding was kind of attached to the chain link fence.

Uh again, that's just my department doesn't object to that.

But I learned recently that actually that fence is in violation of another aspect of city code there.

Um, but I would say that for landscaping, we would need an opaque fence, but we'd also need taller shrubs.

Um, and that would have to be done with the landscape plan if the board decides to approve the special use.

All right, thank you.

We're we're also joined by Alderman Andrea Pratt.

This is in her district.

Do you have any comments?

Do I need to be smaller?

No, okay.

Um, yes, I am here to speak in opposition.

Um this is a really this neighborhood has a really active neighborhood group.

Um, they have a community garden right nearby.

They meet in that community garden.

Um, as we do, I've done probably six neighborhood walks.

Yeah, six neighborhood walks there just this past summer in this area, going past this this facility.

Um, when neighbors have said is they are scared to walk near it.

Um, they don't feel safe with it there.

Um, they aren't sure what's happening on the lot, um, which also gives them pause and kind of scares neighbors.

Um, in this area, it was a that is across the street from a bar that had a shooting.

Um, it was next across from a gas station that also had issues.

So it's been lots of things in this area that have changed.

The bar has since the license was revoked.

Um, the the gas station has uh shorter hours to try to regulate this area.

And a lot of this was stemming from activity and unknown activity at this lot.

No one knew what was going on and what was supposed to go on.

When you follow a paper trail to see who is the person that's in charge, you could never figure out who was in charge.

Is it the mother?

Is it the son?

Is it the and no one could ever figure out who you're supposed to contact to get everything on track?

Um, and for that reason, and because of what neighbors have told me, um, I think this is not a good use for this neighborhood.

This is um a detriment to the neighborhood, and then it's the neighborhood that I'm really working on uh rebuilding really strong neighbor is there who want their neighborhood to return to what it used to be.

And that's that's our plan, but we can't do that if we have business neighbors who don't do what they're supposed to do.

Thank you very much, old.

Let me ask who is Lazf Mason.

Um he owns the business, and you said you're the LEC.

So what are you what's your relation to Swift towing?

So I work at the to the microphone.

I'm sorry, into the microphone, please, ma'am.

I'm sorry, I can't hear me now.

Yes, thank you.

Okay, yes.

So my role in the business is doing the paperwork.

Okay.

So you're so he's setting you here.

You're you're like here as the agent for the business to have.

Yeah, I so you think, yeah, I I just make a couple of comments.

And this is the this is the challenge.

We oftentimes will hear some concerns from DNS, who is the enforcement you know, agency from the city, basically, who is supposed who is that when we make conditions for approval, if there are complaints, DNS will go out and investigate and respond to those complaints.

And they've been ready, they've recommended repeatedly not to grant these approvals.

I'm not clear whether they were previously approved in those other years or if it was just in on October.

No, they Mr.

Chairman, they were approved.

Um, again, I can provide additional testimony uh if if it's needed on other issues at the site.

Well, this clip, so so here's what sticks out to me.

We put these conditions in place, knowing that there's an enforcement agency or division in the in the city.

And if this was approved in October, or against the object over the objection of the M of uh DNS, you know, we've we voted and approved this in 2023, October, and just months later, this was like being used outside of what was approved in a way that is a salvage operation is almost inherently a nuisance type operation to a neighborhood because it's junk cars and requires all these landscaping and screening.

This was like being used outside of what was approved in a way that is a salvage operation is almost inherently a nuisance type operation to a neighborhood because it's junk cars and requires all these landscaping and screening.

So, like of this isn't a situation where well you're supposed to plant some trees and didn't, which is not okay.

We object to that too.

But this was like a completely unpermitted use being almost immediately, you know, used at this property.

So now we actually have like DNS kind of brought the receipts this time, right?

And say, like, look, this is a problem.

This there's a long history of this of this property being used inappropriate.

And we have the elected representative of the district talking about neighborhood concerns.

I definitely want to have you respond, but I don't know that we need to get into more information right now from where I sit.

There's lots of problems, and I'm not sure we can that I would endorse going forward.

Go ahead.

Please respond.

So the business is for minor repair for the vehicles and change transportation on the ground of the business.

So it's not nothing outside of the business with transportation.

Far as the salvage vehicles, there's no salvage vehicles on the pro on the premises.

Well, we got so we have all businesses that used to lease out that property, and they may or may not have a junk vehicles, but as of now, that is not operating within within this business.

Fair point.

However, the way that we can feel comfortable with that representation is when the author of the district is able to find out who's working there, who to get a hold of, what's going on.

DNS mentioned we have we don't he's what did you say?

Two things you said either you're not being honest, which well let's just take your word that you're not being dishonest.

Um that you can't control what else is happening on this property, which makes it, but that's your problem.

Right as the operator who gets this occupancy and gets this conditional use permit, and that when you have the enforcement DNS who is in charge of enforcement saying they have all these problems and they don't even maybe he has more information.

But when all the women in pride is telling us, you know, her constituents complain, and then there's not even recourse.

It's like this mystery operation.

That's just really problematic.

So Mr.

Chair, I don't know if I can say there was also a ray by MPD um last month or a couple months ago, wherein they found two stolen vehicles on this lot as well.

Yes, that's in your package, January 16th of 2026.

A gun was recovered as well as two stolen vehicles.

I was at the property as recently is Sunday morning at 9 15.

The latest pictures in the packet are from that.

Right.

Yeah.

I can go into further detail of my experience at that time with some individuals on site, but that's up to the board.

To be honest, Mr.

Chair, I don't need to hear more.

I mean, this is about as egregious as it can get if we have a repeated documented history of the city's own uh department enforcement department not being capable of enforcing the the conditions that we set forth.

I don't know how we could approve this in any case.

We have the older person of the district here um representing her neighbors who tell us it's clearly not protective of the public health safety and welfare, it's not protective of the properties uh that are adjacent to it.

Um I I won't support this.

You know, anyone in one line, and I I won't either in one more point that yeah, I I it's kind of unfortunate that you had to come here and not that the fact that the owner of the business isn't here, knowing this has been a real problem and he sent you.

I'm not saying that you're incapable of coming in representing, but it's not really fair, and it's kind of gives more.

We would like people have questions, and he's not here to answer them.

And I'm not sure that that would have made a difference, but that's kind of just another layer of sort of problematic behavior with this with this owner.

So I don't know if there's any more, but I'm ready to hear a motion.

Uh I make motion to deny this special uh use request.

I'll second board member St.

Arnold Bow.

Hi.

Board member Rocker.

Hi.

Board Member Current.

I vice chairman's nice speaker, Chairman Rambert.

Hi.

Thanks for coming, but tonight.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next item, item number 33, 4357, North 60th Street.

Request to occupy the premises as a light motor vehicle repair facility and a heavy motor vehicle rental facility.

Is there anyone online that would like to speak on 4357 North 60th Street?

Please raise your hand if you're here to speak on that item.

I am not seeing any raised hands.

Hello, can you um just pull the mic towards you?

Can you give us your name and mailing address, please?

Sorry, my name is uh mailing address 4357 north 60th Street, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 53216.

Thank you.

Can you please preserve any affirm under all that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

I see it.

Thank you.

The second time we've had I saw it.

All right, thank you.

DPW.

Um just wanting to emphasize that we have one condition that no more than 29 vehicles are parked on the site for any reason at any time.

That won't be a problem.

DNS, no additional comment.

DCD.

Uh just emphasize our condition regarding landscaping.

Uh yes, uh, I submitted a plan.

Uh it's very detailed.

Uh there was a plan on file from 2021, but it wasn't feasible.

So I redid it and I'm open to any changes that might be requested by the department.

I mean, I see a lot that clearly some automotive use in the past.

Needs a lot of, you know, if you come in and clean this up and put in some landscaping, you're just gonna improve this.

Um seems like the plan of operation is enforceable.

Board members.

Um what's your lease term?

Uh four years with uh multiple options to renew.

Is this landscaping plan that's in the the receipt February 18th?

Is that the one you're talking about?

You sent it earlier last month.

So yeah, I sent one on February 18.

Uh they had one on file uh that had um trees to be planted between the parking lot and the uh grassed area or the the grass terrace, but there's not enough room to plant trees there, so I changed it uh to some bushes, but if if there's any changes that they want, it it I'm indifferent.

I can make whatever changes they want.

We can hear from our escape.

Yeah, um I see the plan from 2021.

I don't actually see the new one.

Um it's not really it's kind of just a dense right here.

No, that's the only one.

Oh, I see it.

So the the new one is pretty much the same thing.

The only difference is instead of uh trees being planted uh along the fence, it's gonna be bushes.

No, that's the one from 26.

That's the old one.

Well, this is one no, but it says look at the bottom, received 20.

I do have a copy of it.

I can uh email it to uh one of you folks recommend that that be um that there is an approved plan and that that'd be installed within 90 days.

Um I think I like to modify those conditions that it wouldn't be the reposed plan because I I can't tell right now exactly what and then be very reluctant to waive any kind of tree requirements.

Well, I I don't have an issue with it, but if uh if you uh just take a look here, they the amount of space between the parking lot the amount of space yeah, so yeah, so it's like two feet.

Um I don't mind putting a tree there if that's what what the department wants, but it's not feasible.

A tree's not gonna grow there, there's not enough room.

I I will need a revised landscape plan, so we'll so that we can actually make a determination on that.

Well, you know, I can I I'm happy to go with the plan on file.

It it doesn't matter to me if but I I would just like to put something in there that would actually grow and and last, but it the question I guess really succeed meeting the expectations that you would have on the there were mature mature trees in 2009 that got cut down.

Okay.

I mean, I don't I don't have any problem with it.

I just I'm uh I'm not a professional landscaper.

I just looked and I thought that maybe somebody uh put together a plan on paper that they thought would be approved.

Um I don't have any issue sticking with the original plan.

So the original plan from 2021 had that would have these local that would have trees planted.

So if we went with if we kept that original condition or or some equivalent that I would recommend to the board that he sends a revised plan, because I want to go over this a little bit more closely.

Well, with all due respect, um I think decide the tree.

Well, I know, but if he if he wants that original plan, and that's the he does not want like a new plan.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm gonna be for I can even see because you indicated that you don't need all 29 parking spots.

The traffic was indicating is the maximum.

You can take out a couple parking spots and actually create enough bio maps for trees to actually roll where otherwise cars would be occupying the space.

Well the amenable to that is an alternative and uh well I I mean I don't have any issue doing that, but there's a fence between the parking lot and the grass terrace.

So you're talking about tearing down a fence and and taking part of the parking lot.

Well, I mean, if if that's what it's one suggestion.

I I mean if if we need to plant trees and that's what and that's what we have to do, I don't have a problem with that.

It because we're not going to be using the entire parking lot.

We should have joined.

Mr.

Slamansky into the microphone, please.

Sorry.

I I would recommend the board that we go ahead.

Um roll on the case, but it'd be conditional on them working on uh upgraded landscape plan.

Okay, I'm amenable to that.

So that can look that can look a couple different ways.

They can be a determination that trees will fit as is, it could be like what Mr.

Shmyski said to put built build but uh basically replace a stall with some plantable ground where you can put a bigger tree.

That is not something we're gonna figure out exactly today what the specifics of the plan are.

But if we have enough board members that are willing to grant this for a period of time contingent on a new revised plan of uh landscaping plan submitted and approved by uh DCD that would also be installed within 90 days of occupancy, we can move forward.

Does anybody have a problem with that?

Or do you want more time to revoc to you know it's no?

I think we can do this.

Yeah, no, I mean I'm I'm flexible.

I don't have like any uh issue with planting uh materials you're having problem with the criteria necessary to grant the special use have them that uh based on the evidence in the plow testimony received of make motion to approve this for a period of three years, and also taking into account the revised plan acceptable to uh DCD uh that may include removing asphalt on the interior of the parking to create enough space for tree plantings.

Is there a second second, madam secretary?

Board member St.

Arnold Bell.

I board member uh rucker, board member Kern.

Aye, Vice Chairman Smyski, Chairman Umberg.

Hi, thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Thanks.

Bye.

Okay, item number 34, 1311 East Wright Street.

Request to add intense manufacturing to a manufacturing facility or tannery and to occupy the premises as an indoor storage facilities.

Is there anyone online that would like to speak on 1311 East Wright Street?

Um, please write your hand, raise your hand if you'd like to speak on 1311 East Wright Street and Mr.

Chair, I don't see anyone online.

Hello, we'll get the people in the room from who'd like to see my name is Dorothy Balicki.

I reside at 2419 North Gordon Place, which is directly across the street from Seidel Tanning.

I'm Frederick Seidel, owner of Sidal Panning 1306 Minic.

And the building we're talking about.

Grab that microphone, please.

Hi, I'm Fritz Seidel Jr., uh Vice President of Cital Tanic Court.

Okay.

Then please raise your right hands.

Do you affirm under oath that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

I can I do PPW.

Nothing to uh DNS, no additional comment.

Uh DCD.

Just to note that the petitioner's operation includes uh this parcel on this building, and it also includes a building to the south that is separated by a parking lot.

Uh we do have a condition that currently there used to be a house on part of that parking lot, those uh demolished within maybe the last 10 or 15 years.

Uh and our condition is that they combine that parcel with the change adjacent um one or both of the adjacent properties that they own.

And I just for the board's record, uh, the other building, uh 1306 East Minariki does have a BOSA history.

Uh it was last approved, I believe, in 2024.

Yeah, 2024 for a period of 10 years.

Uh, I do I'm I'm gonna ask the petitioner one question.

I think I know the answer to this, but basically, are you doing anything new or different at this site, or are you just trying to kind of get permitted for your the activities that you've done from the no, we're just yeah, nothing new.

It's we're literally just trying to uh read our occupancy.

So, yeah, that was that that's what I thought.

And I'm just wondering is it just a code change?

Why what is it?

What's the intense manufacturing part of it?

Yeah, so I'm so looking at this uh case, this could very well be that uh the business has been established for decades and decades and decades.

Occupant naming occupancies many decades ago wasn't scrutinized as much as it is today.

Our zoning code is much more involved than and the definitions are much more involved than they were 30 years ago.

So we do have an order to obtain a current occupancy permit.

I think this is an instance where their operations have never changed, but our code now identifies this as, for example, they may this whole thing may have been called a warehouse in 1975 because no one at that time you know cared.

It was it was what it was.

Um so just for justifiably, our codes are more detailed now, which is great.

Um, so I I think and with the applicant's testimony and what I've seen in the packet, I don't see that any new operations are occurring.

Um we've not had complaints um in the past of any significance on the property.

Um so that maybe to clarify, um, they sort of I don't know how else to describe this grown into our code.

Okay, and are now seeking that approval.

I've looked at this property for quite a long time.

My uncle lived there since he was born, so I've been there for quite a long time myself, and during living at this location, we have had issues and problems to the point that it was really hard to breathe when you go outside, and to the point where if you left your vehicle outside, it stank.

So to say, oh, he's never had issues, blah blah is baloney.

I have a lot of these issues with this facility.

I still have air issues with the facility.

Do I get to open up my windows during the daytime and feel comfortable that I'm going to be able to get fresh air going through once in a while?

No.

I'm deprived of that.

I'm deprived of even walking on my front sidewalk because the semi-trucks that are there keep running up over the curb because they have to back into the dock.

My front sidewalk is not supposed to be a loading dock.

There are a lot of other issues.

I'm in a unique position because I have another business on the other side of me, which wasn't there before.

And since they've been there, I've posed complaints, and the things that people tell me are degrading.

They tell me you don't like the smell.

Well, wear a mask.

If you don't like the noise, wear earphones.

Does anyone really care about the situation?

I don't believe so.

I don't know.

All I know is what's happening to me and what goes on on both sides of me.

And in front of me, where are the environmental impact studies?

Has anybody bothered to check on vibrations for the street that's now really getting to look in very much disrepair?

And when I've had to have my gas pipes moved to the other side of my house.

And they had to dig up part of the concrete in front of my house and put barriers up.

Who do you think knocked the barriers down?

The truckers.

To some people it might seem a little tiny thing.

Oh, does it happen all the time?

Do I have to police my house 247?

Because they're there six days a week.

What was your address again?

2419 North Gordon Place.

So I'm sandwiched in between.

He owns the garage and warehouse that's next door to my house on the left.

When I'm looking at his facility, and I have Cheese Mart distribution to my right.

A Thermoke refrigeration unit pointed towards my door to my house where the fan is going constantly, making huge amounts of noise.

And I have people that I've complained to who have actually played telephone tags so they didn't have to talk to me from the city.

All I have to say is I don't trust the paperwork because in the past there have been items that have been vague, so you couldn't understand them properly.

One was vague, so that they tried to enter information in.

So in the future they could possibly build right next door to me.

Because until I can have further information about what this is truly about, and if there's going to be expansion in the future, and to raise questions about the chemicals that are used in any tannery, much less his.

So, you know, we do put sorry, we do put in a lot of work to make sure that we're operating within our you know, permit uh, you know, what's regulated for our permit, you know, and we go as far as to have a uh ISO 14 uh thousand and one certification through the leather working group just to make sure that you know we are uh you know uh checking, you know, can do plan check, you know, make sure that we're uh uh operating with on our permits um because we know where you know we know where our facility is, it's in a residential area, and we get that, and so we try to work hard to make sure that uh you know we're operating legally.

Can I ask a question about the permits?

Um how frequently are you inspected for those permits and and what is you know on what kind of cadence is that?

So we do a annual with both MMSD and uh the Wisconsin DNR, and then we do have pop-in inspections from the EPA whenever they decide to uh check.

And if it was, you know, if we were out of compliance, they would they would do inspections more often, uh, but because we've been in continued compliance for a very long time, um, they choose to uh do it annually.

Okay, thank you.

And then what about the concerns that she has about the noise and then the driving the track the track the flow of the trucks and stuff disrupting that?

Um first of all, we do our time of operation is it starts at six in the morning, and that's through DNS, and that has been improved for quite some time.

So five o'clock, people do arrive, we do start to open up, but really none of the machinery is running until six o'clock because that's when the shift starts.

And then we're done typically at 2 30 with the main shift, and we do some work until 4 30 occasionally in the afternoon, but that's in the upper floors above Dorothy's house.

Um so you know, as my son said earlier, uh a lot is certainly changed over the years from our plan of operation.

Uh most of the chemicals are Prop 65 nowadays.

Um, it's all water-based product.

Um certainly less but less benign than it used to be.

And we are not a full tan rear.

We are a retan finishing operation.

Um is done down in the valley.

We moved up there in uh late 1978, taking over the Minic building.

Now the building we are talking about is the building to the north of it, which has a parking lot between it.

And as DNS uh was talking, we've also got an occupancy permit that we're trying to work with to get that taken care of, but we're working on the division of the parking lot because of the expansion of that back in 2016 at the moment.

Um, you know, operation for uh the building that we're trying to get the occupancy permit for uh mostly storage.

There is some process that's been going on in there, which it really has been for the last 25 to 30 years, and is uh Department of Neighborhood Services said I I really think what transpired here is through uh I mean the city inspector came through probably I think it goes on almost three years now, but certainly two and a half years ago, and saw that our uh currently permit was not in compliance with the ordinances, and as you stated, it's you know, the business just you know, it is what it is, and it has operated in the same manner, but ordinances have now changed.

Took a long time for the governance to change, and it takes a long time when there are problems to correct them.

They're not immediate, it takes a long time.

The only other thing I would say on um the noise for like truck drivers is we do have signs on the building and we do let all our you know the companies we work with that are uh delivering or picking up that we do tell them they cannot pick up till 8 a.m.

And then we also say, you know, make sure uh that they're not there early that if truck drivers show up late that they're not parking in the area overnight because that's a big thing too.

Um so there, man.

Um is there a history of orders or anything on this case from an enforcement on this there was an order to obtain the occupancy permit for uh um based off the fire inspection?

Like noxious, a few noxious uh there is I'm looking one moment, Mr.

Chairman.

I I can flip over that screen.

Um if my computer cooperates.

Um I saw a complaint in 09, 08, another one in 08.

Um, we're in 2026.

No orders resulted from those complaints.

Um, I can get more detail in a second if you want.

Yeah, what was the complaint?

That point was for one more one moment, but that was from 09, you said while you're doing that.

I mean, forgive me relevant to what has been testimony here.

We've had uh graffiti issues of that's you know, a victim crime that's not a uh so but as far as what's relevant here, the um one moment right the yeah, oh aids, for example excessive noise and exhaust solution from a delivery semi-truck that's at idle, uh waiting for loading dock to open.

Um, you know, that's a complaint that's on file, and it's understandable we can't verify it by the time our inspector is there several days later.

But it is on file.

Um there are a couple other ones similar to that, and I can flip over to Mina Key.

My partner here is eager to I did check my key as well, but it'll take me a second.

Um my sewer in my home connects to I mean, not in my home in the street connects directly to his factory.

If there is too much waste water that combines with other sewage, it creates sulfide gas, and that's a problem and will always be a problem to me and a concern.

I don't care if he's okay today, I don't care if he's okay tomorrow.

It's always going to be a concern.

And today I am against I'm against you approving this.

And if not, if you want more information from me, I wish it to be held because I have not been able to review all of the paperwork that's been not included with the letter I've received.

And maybe I wouldn't have to be here at all if I understood exactly what was going on because somebody would have bothered to include some of the residents that could be impacted by it.

Your the alderman for one could have had some kind of a short brief meaning showing us what he's going to be doing.

I I will say, so I I was thinking for Mr.

Sidell myself.

And I'm in this, I'm listening to you, and I think the board is too.

There was a letter in um Alderman Brower, who is in support of this, but it doesn't sound like there was outreach.

And I will just to be just so you know, you're not gonna get you'll get a notice, and then this is good that you came here to express your concerns.

You're not gonna get like the whole packet that we have.

That's not just they don't they um well you weren't.

We're not gonna put that in the city budget to send it all out, so that's not that's normal, right?

Hold on a second.

I want to hear from the board member St.

Arnold Bell.

She was been wanting to say something.

Well, but I'm afraid that what I'm gonna say might make things more complicated.

But I guess question for DNS and DCD.

If this has been operating for 25 plus years with occupancy permits that may have covered the uses at that time.

Um, but our zoning codes have changed, things have changed.

Is there any concern that this could be considered a non-conforming use?

The Zag group did uh uh ask that uh of the permit center, and they were adamant in their analysis that this had to move forward in this direction.

Okay, uh, you know, this is a complicated situation um that we as a city are finding ourselves dealing with frequently, you know, uh historically the way that our our business areas and our neighborhoods developed, we're very close and friendly and maybe not always very compatible, and trying to thread that needle can be really hard for us uh in the year 2026.

Um I understand and I hear your concerns loud and clear, Miss Dorothy.

I I'm sure that this is a hard neighbor to have, and at the same time, I understand that like this is a business that's been in operation for 30 years and employs a hundred people and is you know a major um commercial um business in our our neighborhoods that we have to find a way to sustain.

I guess I wonder have you communicated with your neighbors about um the uses there.

Have you been um do you share your contact information if there's complaints or concerns about some of the things that are happening?

Um I had a couple neighbors come into the office and I talked to them just you know, because some of them were concerned when they saw you know both the letter come out.

Um, and I just explained to them like we're not trying to change anything, we're just trying to renew our occupancy.

Um and so from the neighbors that I talked to, you know, they it was good, amicable, you know, uh conversation.

Uh another thing I would say is we do have a formal complaint uh procedure.

You know, if there are complaints, you know, we handle them in a certain way where we investigate them, and if there is an issue um that we you know from that investigation, we'll create a corrective action.

Uh but if there's not if somebody doesn't tell us, you know, we're not going out and really looking.

You can step out your door and you can smell it.

So we have to see today there was a smell there too.

Mr.

Arthur, I I don't think you're coming in here and making this up.

I understand.

We can't, we this is very challenging because of all the reasons that that Ms.

uh board member St.

Arnold Bell said this is a like if John Gerda was here, maybe he could get the exact state.

But Milwaukee in the 19th century, I think the heat was the number one exporter of canned leather in the world.

And it is and it has improved, it is the historically pretty horrendous environmentally, right?

But there are have been improvements.

It is a big part of the culture of this city and the manufacturing history of the city.

It's also in a like an industrial mixed use neighborhood, and it and it's also having a negative impact on you as an immediate adjacent neighbor.

This is tough for us to grapple with.

We just have to kind of at this point.

Um, I'm not gonna we're not gonna have further back and forth testimony.

I just I don't know what the I don't know what the board wants to do.

I mean, this is you know we've heard a lot and it's from my perspective, despite what the permit desk is saying that they insist on this uh zoning being a zoning change.

I don't see this as a zone change.

This is an existing business that has been there for uh an eon of time.

I don't see again from what the testimony uh provided that they're actually making uh uh substantial intensifications of their manufacturing process, and because of all of that, I find uh that the special use and the use variants in fact are uh are acceptable to me.

And I I would make motion to grant this for a period of what are my next steps, please.

Well, there's a motion on the table 10-year approval on both the use of the and I'm I'm I'm anticipating what Mr.

Richardson is going to recommend as a run of the law is uh this is a special dimensional what it whatever your term is that we should run this or no.

Uh I I just note that the other property, which is you know under road to this whole thing, got a 10-year approval on January 18th, uh 2024.

And I think India probably has the actual yeah, yeah, Mr.

Chair.

Um the exact date is January 21st, 2030.

2030.

We modify my motion to uh uh approve this to run concurrent with the other property.

And then we have a motion in a second, or no, I'll second it.

I just want to make the comment that classifying it as intense manufacturing, it is it sounds really alarming.

Um, it's not an intensification of what's actually happening at the site according to the testimony that we have.

So nothing about what is happening in this facility is changing because the way that we classify the business is changing.

So I just think that it's hard to sometimes understand.

I have a lot of questions and I look at zoning all the time.

So I understand that it's not necessarily always clear.

I will also say with my um second that um if there is not a point, if this is amenable, there's not a point of contact that people can reach out to someone in the business with their concerns that that be made available.

How would you?

I mean, we do have like our phone number one set on our website and a contact log on our website, which is generally the point that we go through for things like that if you have other you guys want to have like a our phone number file for bidding.

We have a generic condition we use for a lot of cases, uh, requiring a contact number and it's it's sent to the boza office and all of them others acceptable.

Yes, all right.

Arnold Bell aye board member rocker aye board member current aye vice chairmansky chairman and I would recommend that you can why he told me basically in that letter that this is baloney these are hard this is hard no it isn't a hard situation I live there and I have to put up with it and I'm coming to you for help you've made up your mind right now that I have no recourse for my situation because nothing will come of it they're liars and I don't believe anything in people say because we're I'm one it's it's I would like to say I always had a uh good relationship with her father and never had an issue with them so these are I've offered a fire house good luck and trying to maintain you know it's these are challenges we've heard her concerns and try to be the best name thank you guys take care um item number 35 1510 west state street has been adjourned next item is item number 36 2440 west state street excuse to allow a fence in the front yard and along the side street that exceeds the maximum height allowed and is located within the vision triangle is there anyone online that would like to speak on 2440 West State Street Mr Chair I do not see anyone online for this hello could you please give us your names and mailing address please um address 2748 south 49th street and jurisdiction my name is Angela Rivera and my address is 2748 South 49th Street Milwaukee Wisconsin thank you all right could you please raise your right hands you affirm under oath that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes and we're joined by Alderman Bauman this is in his district I'm sure we'll um we'll come back and hear from from you Alderman Bowman but let's go to DPW nothing to add DNS.

Thank you for brevity uh it's in the case summary of the department's policy is generally to not support front yard fence variance height fence height variances um this is a corner lot but there is no unusual circumstance in other words this is not one of the cases that the board has seen where a side yard is actually a you know it feels like a front yard etc etc this is a standard lot um as the board knows we're consistently uh not in support of vision clearance triangle uh variances because of safety uh we have no other uh we have no objection to the portion that is the street side yard height variance it's a lot of mouthful but along the street side property line in the rear yard you can be six feet but in the side yard uh you have to be uh at the four foot uh uh height level I don't believe there is uh any more a lattice uh exception or a setback exception in the street side yard um there is that this is to streamline the code in exchange they got the rear yard um I can't speak for DCD but that was my understanding or impression ACD yeah again uh we as DNS noted uh we do not believe there are exceptional circumstances or hardship that wants uh this fence the fence the he has a pretty large front yard he's got uh substantial side yard uh we see no reason for a need for a fence of this size occupying the front yard uh and so uh again we find the criteria are not met and we'd have to recommend denial before we move on can I just ask for clarification on the six foot fence because the front yard is anything that breaks the plane of the the front of the house but if it was set back to the to be square width the front of the house would it still be required to be four feet or could it be six feet uh that is a two part question because uh there is a caveat in the side yard Mr.

Richardson's pull in the code if you are more than 10 feet from the side yards minimum side yard setback you can go up to six feet don't totally quote me on that but this is an instance where it's a double lot so they do have quite a bit of geography in their side yard so a portion could be six feet um but as you get closer uh to whatever the setback is in that district aside setback um then you'd need to drop down or seek the variance and that's partly why at least from DNS we're not opposed to that little portion of the fence but yes the front yard uh we would not be in support of thank you all right alderman mount yeah thank you mr chair and members of the commission uh the only reason we're here is because this fence wasn't put up without a permit had a permit been applied for they would have been instructed on the requirements and we wouldn't be here so there's nothing unusual about this site it's a standard city lot that was uh combined with the uh house the lot that the house sits on apparently this is an investment property not owner occupied uh and i might add I'm looking at the photographs here and there's other DNS orders such as parking on unpaved surfaces i mean half the side yard is gravel and and that's obviously not permitted as well so that's another issue so clearly had this uh had a permit been applied for the the permit the the development center would have indicated what the requirements are and this would not have been permitted in the first place so it was basically a renegade operation so yeah I do oppose the dimensional variance and again just for the board and perhaps the applicant's sake there is an exception for an ornamental fence right yeah which is fine they do that across the street has an ornament it's so I mean there's so it's it's okay so this is a classic situation of build first and then ask for permission later which is frowned upon but sometimes it happens for a variety of reasons we can parse it out however there's multiple kind of concerns here and there are also likewise parts of the fence parts of the fence that maybe not problematic necessarily but as it's built right now there's there's not at least uh from the city department's perspective and and from your alderman not any basis to find that these criteria necessary to grant all of the aspects of the variance that you're requesting have been met that's not to say that you couldn't uh revise your your plan which is your actual build fence to to make it work having the more front yard available having an ornamental fence instead or having you know there's there's two there's a lot of different ways you could fix this and have it be maybe not require variance or maybe require one that's not really objectionable by anyone I don't know you know I guess the court members have questions it seems like there's a lot of problems and I don't I don't know if this is a situation where it would be best to adjourn let them revise their plan come up with a new plan that would be acceptable because if we try to anticipate what they may end up wanting to have if we deny everything now then they may not even be able to have something that would otherwise have been acceptable with a different design.

I don't know that's a thought um but again generally speaking I just you know you have you can't just put fences up without permission I realize that and I apologize for that um this isn't an property I put up fence for safety for my sentence this is not a great neighborhood we have a lot of people dumping cars there dumping garbage in in the in the property these people got kids I'm just trying to look out for that that's why I built it um I do realize that I I was out of out of scope on that on that on that triangle and on the front I mean I'm willing to work which got it fixed which is ignorant from my side but I was just you know the well being of my vanisender um I'll take it go ahead I appreciate that um I do but there's more than enough space on this property to build this fence in accordance to the code and what the code requires and still have ample space for your tenants and their children.

So I'm inclined instead of adjourning and seeing if we can get another plan I would just prefer moving to deny and then have this go back and get permitted and and work through the permit the the what they would need to do.

I don't see any reason why based on this property how much space they have why they would need any additional variances.

But there's there's ways you could do a completely legitimately legal fence where you need absolutely no approval from us.

This is what Alderman Bauman was saying.

If you went in and said, look, I want to build a fence, and they would say, Well, here's what you can do.

You could go, all right.

I gotta, and then and then bring your plan back, and it's a perfect build the fence.

You don't even need to go to bar zoning abuse.

And there may be elements of the existing fence that are aligned with what the code allows, but like the stuff in the front yard.

Right.

That that's certainly not part of it.

No, but the poet see this is the thing because we just did this in I let's just say with good intentions, but the fact that part of the fence the is in it's all in the side yard, I get it, but the first the the front end of that side yard fence is in front of the house, like it's it exceeds the plane of the front of the house, which means it's in the front yard.

So there's that whole section that could be that has to be removed anyway, and then you don't have the front yard fence, and that part of it is gone, and you don't need permission for that, but then you may still want some height variances.

So I'm kind of inclined to agree with our members saying it or a bell after hearing it that I think it's just as it exists, it's not doesn't meet the criteria.

So we can deny this, you can revisit it.

You may be able to just do the whole new fence, it's completely legal, or you may say, I still want this one part that's this height.

That's going to be a substantial change in your plan, and it might be fine to come back and get permission for one rather than everything.

Reduce the height of the fence.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, do you have options?

There are you don't have to do a whole you might be able to in a fairly economically get this into code without having to dig it all up and totally rebuild it.

But you have to talk to it at the point.

I just would recommend you hire someone that's gonna know how to go through the permitting process with the city.

So but there's no, I mean, I don't we have to there's more discussion if there's a motion.

I'll make a motion.

Having found the fact criteria necessary to grant uh use uh dimensional variants have not been met uh based on the um information here in the file, technical review by staff, and I would vote to deny this request.

Right, madam secretary board member San Ronaldo, I board member Rocker, I board member current, I vice chairman Smyceby and Chairman Lomberg.

All right, so if you have questions about kind of process cloud contact the board's office, we get you in touch in the permit.

We're we're right next to that.

You don't even have to have this conversation about I wonder if it's so dangerous why you'd invest in property here.

Well, it's gonna make the neighborhood better.

Well, you got you can go, you can try to figure out a way to do this without meeting us.

And if you do end up, we have a design that still needs something, come back.

Thank you.

Take care.

Next item item number 378302 West Lisbon Avenue has been adjourned.

Our next item is item number 38.

711 West Capital Drive.

Request to occupy the premises as an emergency residential shelter facility.

Is there anyone online for this item?

711 West Capital Drive.

Please raise your hand if you'd like to speak.

Okay, we do have Mr.

Nicholas Robinson.

Yes, I'm um the architect on this project and just here for questions or whatever is needed.

I'm just here.

Okay, thank you.

And I don't think we need to swear on that again because they swore on okay.

Hello, could you please give us your name and mailing address, please?

Yeah, tomorrow and 2025 North Booth Street, Milwaukee.

The applicant, correct?

I am, yeah.

Kyle Oxner was here from our reach community health center.

He had to keep up.

Could you please raise your right hand?

Do you affirm under all that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Um DC uh but you department of public works, nothing to add.

Uh DNS, DCD.

Nothing additional.

Um you know, you were just here last week or last month.

Um, is it it's I know it's kind of like I hope that you don't need this because it's almost spring, but you still are just kind of anticipating potentially for the remaining cold weeks or simpler concept than Nick.

Uh thanks for being online here.

Um, so similar concept.

This is a little bit different in the sense that we're doing emergency sheltering housing.

Um, this is more of what's called a medical respite model.

And so we're serving uh a select group of people.

We would be sheltering them 247.

Uh it's mainly people over 60, uh, or people generally that are being discharged from hospital, other some who are uh you know working with our street outreach teams who are coming um directly from street homelessness, but this is a population of folks that is are not necessarily appropriate for regular shelter.

So uh one of my colleagues was here, you had to go as well, but he's a nurse who will be working with us.

So this is a model that we're developing.

We see it as a really important um, you know, for our work in terms of serving a population of people that we really just have a big gap in our system to fill.

So this is a pilot project.

Outreach community health center, you know, originally their name was healthcare for the homeless.

So they came to us with this building saying, hey, we really want to have a mission-driven use for this building.

And uh certainly in our end, the floor that we're going to be occupying was a residential facility.

I believe it was back in the 90s, it may have been into the 2000s, I'm not sure.

Uh, but it's built out with individual rooms.

Um, and it, you know, really ideal for this work that we're trying to do to serve, you know, what will be a fairly small group for the work we do, but um, you know, again, just we appreciate that outreach community health center has been willing to partner on this.

Uh question, Mr.

Chair.

I just want to address his emergency preparedness plan.

It's uh one of the best plans I've seen come through here, especially the fire prevention portion of it.

Is the whole building sprinkler?

Is it just a first or second?

It's the first floor.

First floor.

So they could online the architect and you know worked on the plans with it.

But yeah, I mean, we were very fortunate that there was a system in place and had to do some upgrades to it.

But right, that's a good plan.

Thank you.

Any other questions?

Well, then is there a motion?

I think they can also motion.

I if I could just add one more question.

So working with Kyle, you know, again, you know, partnership that we're we're wanting to expand in the future.

This project that we have, and I know there were some questions from the board for us that we received.

Our initial plan here was we have funding for four months.

We would, you know, honestly like to potentially utilize the building long term.

So within this process, I was wondering if that'd be possible in terms of that's where I was getting that's kind of what I asked because it was this portion about warming shelter and then the temperature.

I mean, does it I guess I don't see the value in a four monthly listen?

This isn't a tip, this isn't a thing where you need it for this period of time and then you're gonna use it for a different you're wanting to.

Yeah, I mean that's where I know the way it was written, it might have been confusing because obviously we were we're um planning on opening maybe a little bit earlier in the winter warming season.

However, for the people that we want to serve, this is really uh a need, you know, 365.

Right.

So in terms of the work we're doing, we're trying to develop this in terms of uh program that would be sustainable and looking at different funding sources, and this would be one of the buildings that potentially if it worked out with Upper Community Health Center.

The other benefit is just they have medical and behavioral health services that we'd be utilizing for people.

So within this process and pursuing you know full occupancy, we would ask, would it be possible to be permitted for you know several years to be honest?

Um certainly is possible.

The other thing, I don't know if I I'm I should have maybe sent the flyer and and we did have a public meeting.

We didn't have a lot of attendance, but we flyer, uh went around to 125 households in the neighborhood surrounding the building.

Uh they have you know uh information was with my phone number and email if there were any questions.

We didn't really have much attendance at the meeting, but um a lot of outreach to the older women have not received any feedback at all.

So you know, hoping it's being well received.

You said you've been making a lot of motions today that you're done making motions.

Yeah, I mean I don't know.

I think I let the other let's go.

I think fine that they are use criteria have been met based on the evidence from the file testimony we received.

I'd make motion to approve this for a period of uh three years with any conditions in the hearing summaries.

Oh thank you.

All right, madam secretary.

Board member St.

Ronald Bow.

Hi, board member Rocker.

Hi.

Board member current.

Nice five chairman's nice people.

Right, Chairman Lower.

Hi, thank you very much.

Thank you all.

Good.

Thank you.

Item number 39, 3854 North Tetonia Avenue.

Request to allow light motor vehicle repairs to be performed outdoors and to continue occupying the premises as a light motor vehicle repair facility and an outdoor storage facility.

This would be for two shipping containers.

Is there anyone online that would like to speak on 3854 in North Tetonia Avenue?

Please raise your hand if you'd like to speak.

Kayla Davis, you should be able to unmute yourself.

Hello.

Yep.

Taylor Davis, I am here.

I've got to do the administrative assistant work for the right.

So I'll just hear to answer any questions if needed.

It's very hard to hear you, Kayla.

But I think you just said you're here for to answer any questions.

You administrative work.

So we can just see if we need you.

We'll have you sworn in.

But you have to give us your name clearly and your mailing address, and then we'll get the two uh gentlemen in the room here.

Okay.

Oh, you want me to do that right now?

Yeah, go ahead and say it again.

But you're just honestly hard to understand.

Okay, just your Davis.

Taylor Davis, yep.

Okay.

Uh mailing address 2410 2410 West McKinley Avenue.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And then could you give us your name and mailing trust?

Okay, thank you.

And could both of you please raise your right hands.

Do you have firm on the off that's testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the two.

Okay.

Um let's hear let's hear first from uh DPW.

Just wanting to emphasize one of our conditions that no more than five vehicles are parked outside on the lot for any reason at any time.

DNS.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

For the applicant's uh benefit, I'll read this through, but this is similar to a case you had last month based on a review of information submitted by the petitioner relative to this proposal and without benefit of any testimony which may be presented at the Board of Zoning Appeals hearing.

The department cannot support outdoor auto repair short of an outdoor salvage facility where the work area is completely enclosed by fencing and generally not open to the public.

Outdoor tire repair requires portable jacks rather than permanent lifts, increasing the possibility of a vehicle unexpectedly slipping off the jack.

Having a repair area not completely enclosed leads to a possibility of a car on jacks after hours or when the garage is closed, posing a risk, especially to children who may be tempted to play on or explore on the lot.

It is also likely that if tire repair is allowed, breaks will be repaired, then rotors, then suspension assemblies, etc.

The application is inconsistent with the spirit and intent of the LB2 code, a district designed to be adjacent to residential uses.

There are no exceptional circumstances.

This building can be used as a repair garage with all work occurring inside.

The applicant possesses uh a potential detriment to adjacent properties.

The hardship is self-implose imposed and clearly for economic grounds.

The application is to overuse a very small garage if the business garage site, I should say if the business is too large to be contained in the building, then a larger facility should be found.

The department has no objection to the special use as a repair garage, as it had been an existing garage, provided all the work is conducted indoors.

I've submitted some pictures, some as recently as this morning.

The site has other maintenance challenges, uh, but that's not what's before you today, and that's something that the neighborhood services can handle.

Uh but we wanted to give an accurate reflection of uh the condition of the property and especially in relation to the surrounding neighborhood.

Uh, I do have uh conditions of approval uh that are similar to uh what standard repair garage conditions um without any uh other unusual ones.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um Mr.

Richardson DC.

Yeah, uh we're concerned by what appears to be an increasing number of tires that are being stored on site.

Several years ago, the board approved usage of a storage uh container that's along the Tetonia Avenue frontage, but pictures show that uh another storage container has been placed on the site, it's placed right in front of one of the uh garage bays.

Um I don't know what's happening in the garage bays.

I uh perhaps uh something happened to it so it can't be used for auto repair, and and I don't know if that's also being used for tire storage.

Uh pictures taken by DNS show that there is a truck with just tons and tons of tires on the site.

Um so uh again, it there should be a process under which you know tires get removed from the site on a regular basis, so it's not eating up more and more of the site.

Uh if the board uh does approve the uh special use and or variance, uh we do have a landscaping condition uh in the ebook.

There is a picture uh from Google Maps that kind of shows uh areas on the site that do need uh some shrubs.

And so we do have a condition that that that be done.

Thank you.

Well, speak.

Yep, go ahead.

Uh back to uh the problem they will services.

First of all, the uh the facility before I knocked by the facility was already zone for small work on our side on this lot.

So there's nothing new that's on my behalf that's been around since before I've been occupied by the building.

Second of all, since it's not a hazard, but it is a better community appealing to the more community because probably there was a car wash there that I deleted simply because the noise, the noise pollution, and the traffic.

So that's when there's only one door there.

So close that door, and that was all we have is tires there, and I put another bin right there that I just filed filed for and then approved, and I paid to have it, you know, put in my plan.

So my thing is, and then also the used tires are always said to be stacked in a secure facility and then stacked with a secure truck.

As uh I often do the people come in and pick my recycling as beyond my patrol.

But the thing is they're not on the streets, the streets is not messed up again as far as the uh the uh the site plan about planning and stuff.

When I first occupied the building at the triangle right here, it's an accident hazard right there, along with the traffic light that they put right there.

But myself, uh my children, we built levels of dirt and wood and stuff to try to start the cars running up on our facility.

So I asked the city praise several times before now and then to y'all want me to do something, help me do it.

Meaning that if I'm doing taking care of the premises of my facility, take care of the city street right there by putting some pillars right there, but cars have accidentally don't run up on my facility.

Right now I have snow files right there to try to make it safe for the customers up there, you know what I'm saying?

So I'm trying to do everything to do, try to make the community itself more safer, as well as a business more productive for myself and our community.

You know, so I just it just it just irks me to come out to say that I'm gonna sound like to me, I'm trying to run it in the ground, which that's not what I'm doing.

I got 13 children, I'm just grandchildren, you know, so that I've been working for.

So, you know, I'm trying to work with the you know what I said.

What would it want to hopefully ever mean?

Let's build it.

We got a bill, you know, so kick you on tearing stuff down.

You know, so I'm you know, I've been uh prior to that.

So we've been on a Google report and third third best tire used tire facility on Google, first car wash facility on Google, you know what I'm saying?

So I'm gonna put it in the community in several different ways.

So I mean, you know, let's uh let's try to get rid of the negative unless you know more positive doesn't matter it's all right.

Yeah, yeah, I don't, you know, I don't think that I didn't take it as uh an aspersion on you not you know trying to degrade the property and run to the ground.

So I think basically if you had a repair shop, it's a small small on a tall of those corner lots.

We're gonna be driving through there.

That's a problem.

So some landscaping could help with that, actually.

Uh you have a small seemingly successful business because you want more space, which is which is a good thing, right?

You could well, I think what Mr.

Lyrton is saying is you could absolutely appropriately and safely operate tire repair right inside that small building and have those storage here for the waste of the walls.

Well, and that's that's the next thing he said is that it's it's just it's it's a very small space and to get to your scale of business is just exceeds the limits.

I we we have had some of I don't I think I can I can think of one time only that we've ever uh approved an outdoor repair, and that was in it, it was a totally different situation.

It was somewhat it was almost in an alley, and there was conditions in the repair that they finished, they put it all inside at the end.

You're in a big open space, and if you've got all this business, you're gonna almost it's almost a guarantee that you're gonna have you know cars that aren't quite done overnight, and you've got these other people rummaging to tires and this stuff.

So that's what the concern is.

I don't I don't think that anyone was sitting here, but my thing is if you go back and do the history on the facility that shows that it was once a tiring shop, a car wash, and a small receipt repair facility up until just like a let a couple months ago when I it was a deleted the car wash, so it's nothing new.

But it's never been a there's never been a permitted a permitted outdoor rep or auto repair facility.

If that was happening, it wasn't because we said that may I ask.

Do you do repairs in the building now?

Right.

Okay.

And it looks like you at one point historically, this building may have had two bays.

Does it only have one bay now?

So what back myself would be up a barbecue for the next neighborhood and pan up uh stuff like that, and I this is what people have to say about a facility that I'm gonna find one more time.

The car wash had a nuisance of live music being playing and people hanging out.

So, what's back there?

What's behind that white trail?

So you think that for indoor tire storage, like newer used, whatever new stock that you're gonna put on the cars, right?

So real, so so I guess like there's a couple of ideas.

You have you have two outdoor storage bins, which in a in and up themselves don't seem to be super problematic.

So, what if you opened up that bay again?

You have two work space, two work bays, put your new sire, your newer use stock in the I I know the tire it just takes up a lot of space.

That's the thing.

You gotta have racks to put the tires on unless you're having a truck coming.

No, I mean you don't have it's not required, but to the tires are big and they take up a lot of space.

You need a place to have them to put them on the cars.

Right.

So you got two cars in your house plus two machines, plus two cases, you know, right.

So it's small.

So you can really want to get it one now.

You can't, but we'll be unstable.

So we work from the same facility that the godfather didn't it's the same thing with our first to go to facility.

Well, you see, Godfathered in, but it's not it's in the outside speech.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

I I I you're a you're able to do certain type of auto repairs in there.

That's not a problem.

But if you're seeing that it's not big enough, and but it you to for your tire repairs, and you that means you need to do it outside, but you've already said it used to be a car wash, it used to this is already other things you can use it for, but you're wanting because you don't because it doesn't fit the needs of your business plan, you need this variance.

That is what Mr.

Larriton was saying about it's a self-imposed situation.

It's your your plan is requiring you to overuse this space, it exceeds the capability of the space.

So you got one sewage, you got two bays right here right as you each other.

You got trash and tires, so we're not sure about uh that's cool.

Now we need to have another one in there.

So that isn't that is an upload for the vicinity itself.

So you want to understand that it's not just about just working with cars and but sir, there's just nowhere you can go in outdoor repair.

Yeah, and I can tell you like looking at the photos that we have here and say, I can tell that you're very good at business, and that you're you were the place to go because I see tires that are piled up outside of the bay's doors.

I see them piled up outside of the um outdoor storage containers.

I I'm glad your your business is this successful.

I just wonder if this is the right location for it.

It seems as though you've grown bigger than what can be accommodated in this triangle.

Well, I did three or two fixed area.

I know so by my great thing until you're in the next hundred years.

So that's a verification.

Yeah, the only issue that anyone has is the outdoor work.

Everything else is fine.

Basically, I mean you need to get okay.

It's all that's the only problem.

And that and that's because you need that space is exactly what we're seeing at all about saying is that you you you have your capacity, your clients and your customers are you have more people that need your services than this facility can produce.

So you so basically if if you're limited to only doing the work in the inside, it's gonna cut down.

You could do that, we'll pass that.

I mean, I'm not gonna just promise that could be a vote on it, but I don't see any problem with this board granting light voter light motor vehicle repair and having those outdoor storages.

There's some landscaping conditions.

The thing that that we have up that people have an issue with, and as far as I'm concerned, is really the only problem with your operation is the outdoor repair work for all the reasons stated.

Then if we have some bad thing happen and some kid gets killed from a car dropping down, not because you want to be a reckless business owner, but because you have so much work going on, and this is it's that was horrible.

You have all kinds of problems.

You don't want that.

You got uh one of your grandkids here, I assume you're doing it.

Yeah, oh you're done, okay.

What do you have to say?

No, I'm just kidding.

But anyway, point point being this is like I think this is I think you this is great.

You got a great business.

There's one part of it that's not gonna work.

So I'm happy to go forward and grant the special uses, and then you just can't do the work outside, and then it means just look for a look for their stuff.

And then and then if you move in, you find a spot to accommodate all this, then decide what you want to do with this property.

Well, or you're leasing it.

I think several two several times several different uh spirits that walk about a lot that said we can't say cars plug to the front doors cars up outside of one lot, rotatizer, but that's feasible.

Are we on the same?

No, well, no, no, outside that's so that's the problem.

So, yeah, so my question to you was gonna be like I know because it seems like capacity is an issue.

You got customers coming in, some can be serviced inside, but because of the volume, you got some none.

Okay, so can you can you and are you willing to adjust that, meaning that you get them serviced inside, you figure out a storage solution for your tigers outside?

Because that that's the rule.

I said my manager for our living.

It's not really right.

Well that is that uh this was well, you don't own this, right?

Oh no, that's okay.

There could be a potential to expand that.

I don't know, it's the only thing that's that's all that's an owner situation.

I don't know.

I I just I just can't get around like there's criteria.

I don't know why this was happening before it was never permitted.

I'm not saying it's your fault.

It's not your fault, right?

If you didn't know, you didn't know, but we're so when you are has there ever been a permitted outdoor auto repair use for this property, yes.

Um board of zoning appeals uh for standard repair, the zoning code which is adopted in 2002 had a clause that basically outlawed outdoor order repair uh uh motor vehicle repair.

So it's been in the code since at least 2002.

So that's the problem.

You gotta you gotta you gotta explain why you know this won't create a substantial detriment when we but we have we have a re there's the common council wrote these laws because they think it's dangerous and think they don't feel but I I don't maybe they're wrong, maybe they're wrong, but they wrote the code that walk my place you know the prior things that private part to do, but all the treatment of the county that you can't that would that would be a discussion with the commercial inspector and his management.

So then what I'm not allowed I'm not allowed to do nothing.

I mean we'll do uh when only uh three uh two years well.

I mean, the the issue is you're unwilling to change your operation for us to make it permissible.

That's why I was asking you the question.

So if you are unwilling to flip it, right?

Get your repairs on the inside, do your storage on outside.

That's a thing.

So we'll say I mean not gonna talk our way out of here.

So the question is is there any you know what were you saying talking to the commercial inspector about why work can't be done inside?

I don't I believe the applicant is referring to an annual fire inspection or perhaps the waste tire generator inspection.

Those are handled by the commercial or commercial section, and certainly uh that his observation that how come this wasn't brought up by them, that would be a discussion I would encourage he has with that that section.

Okay, well I don't understand what I'm just saying, you know.

I'm familiar with today to hope we make the Top My Business and make money to the outside.

This is like what means it I mean because I said work the only thing that they the expectation and stuff what I'm gonna do.

This is overnight.

I'm looking at the pictures and I'm seeing piles of tires stored outside.

I listen, I it I am not you're not going to change my mind.

There's a building on the property.

You are clearly a successful business owner.

I believe that you are capable of thinking about how you can adjust this site, adjust your building so that you can conduct some of this, conduct all of this work inside.

I I believe that you can do it.

I want this to be a successful building.

Hold on, hold on.

I want this to be a successful money making business for you.

But but the reality is uh the zoning code is such that uh we can allow uh motor vehicle repairs to happen within a building.

I don't know why they were happening outside.

I don't even I don't even particularly care why they were happening outside.

What we are looking at now today is whether or not the criteria are met for repairs to occur outdoors, and I don't believe they are.

I think again steps can be taken to make that building workable for interior motor vehicle repair, and that this can continue to be a success.

So with that, I would be willing to figure out by the tiny repair.

How much of the well that but you're saying but you're saying right now that you can do regular auto repair in there, you just can't do tire repair and why is that one back to the other right?

You can move them out of there and then you have room.

Well, sir, come on, come on, come on.

You're you're not gonna you can't pretend that we're stupid and don't understand.

You can stop by disrespecting you, but you're saying that because you're so linguistic, I've been sitting at the two off.

Sir you just split on this though.

You just told us that there's tire racks in the way.

That's what's preventing you.

That means that you can move those out and maybe do other regular things.

That's right.

And that's a feasible workable thing, and that's what exactly the reason why there's not an exceptional circumstances could be used for a permitted purpose.

That's a correct I we did, I didn't write a spots.

When this stuff is everything that's I'm doing that has been necessary before I've been there.

Yeah, you've been done.

You don't got job, and that's hello.

Can I chime in?

We're not saying anything yet, but you're not making you're not doing yourself any favors.

Excuse me, I'm not looking in.

Oh, anybody hear me?

Stop talking.

The core reporter needs to hear us.

We can't talk each other.

Can anyone hear me?

Yeah, who is that?

That's very good.

This is Kayla.

Um, I wasn't asked for very yeah.

So um so we heard what you guys said.

I know you said that we need small tirex in order to carry out the work on the inside.

Um, we can't like I know what he says we can't do it immediately, but that does sound like a feasible option, but we would still like to continue operating.

Um here's what I was just gonna say.

But then like I have on hold on.

I'm sorry, just Ms.

Davis, just hold on.

We're getting late.

Here's the no no hard feelings.

We want you to be able to continue to operate.

I'm suggesting that we approve these special uses and deny the variants.

Then you can work up a plan.

It's not a big deal.

You'll be able to figure this out.

Yeah, we can we can come back to the drawing board and figure out how we can.

All you can maybe open that space.

Um tell her so I'm going to make a motion.

We're done with this phone, but I'm going to move to approve the special use for light motor vehicle repair and outdoor storage.

Um, and then I'm going to move to deny the request for light motor vehicle uh outdoor repair.

So I'm I'm approving the uh special uses for a period of three years, and I'm denying the use variance.

For a period of how long there's a motion and a second by chair Schmysky.

So, madam, hold on, hold on.

I'll tell you in a minute, madam secretary.

Board member St.

Arnold Bell.

Aye, board member Rucker.

Aye, board member current, aye, vice chairman Smarski and Chairman Lomberg.

Aye, you're fine to operate, you can't do it outside.

So if that means you gotta stop for a little bit and let Ms.

Davis just said and re-calibrate, you're good.

Just that your smart.

I didn't say that.

We're done.

Tell me what?

So you cannot do outdoor work.

Yeah, so basically, we're saying you can operate, but you need to adjust your your the way you do business to make sure you're operating indoors and not outdoors.

So as soon as possible, just start working on it.

Yeah, talk and talk to me.

Okay, okay.

All right, right.

Take care.

Next item number 40, 320 East Center Street.

Request to occupy a portion of the premises as a social service facility.

Is there anyone online for 320 East Center Street that would like to speak?

Mr.

Chair, I don't see any raised hands for this item.

Hello, could you give us your name and mailing address, please?

Travis Slander, 335 West Right Street, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 53212.

You and you're the applicant for this application.

And then could you please raise your right hand?

Do you affirm under all that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Yes, thank you.

All right, uh DPW, nothing to add.

DNS, no additional comment DCD, nothing additional.

All right, anybody have any questions?

Um your organization and the work that you do.

Oh, this is a um uh low-income housing tax credit development uh that went under with Hartman maybe five years ago.

Cartinal Capital bought it uh last year.

Uh Westcare, Wisconsin is in partner as a nonprofit with Cardinal Capital provide social services for the families that live inside the apartment building so that we can uh this building was built for social services.

No one has never put a special use permit in for social services when the building was built.

Uh so since Cartinal Capital took it over, Westcare Cardinal Capital has their permit for apartment buildings.

Uh we had to come in and put our permit in for the social services because the residents in the neighborhood have issues sometimes, and we want to make sure we're being a good neighbor to provide the proper social services so that we can address the residents and the families living in the low-income housing tax credit.

We have a mother near nine kids, for example, and uh we gotta provide services for her so that she can operate uh effectively.

So this is the whole purpose of the Muscani place.

I love it, and I move to approve for a period of 10 years.

Second.

All right, land secretary.

Board member Signor Bell.

Aye, board member rocker.

Aye, board member current.

Hi.

And also board member right.

Hi.

And Chairman Lomberg.

Aye.

All right, thank you.

Take care.

All right.

Item number 41, 5333 West Hampton Avenue.

Request to occupy the premises as a 24-hour daycare center for 36 codes and proof tip, infant to 13 years of age, operating Monday through Sunday.

And is there anyone online for 5333 West Hampton Avenue that would like to speak?

Okay, there's only one person online, they're not raising their hands.

Um, could you both please give us your names and mailing addresses?

My name is Aisha 4819 North 36th Street, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 5 through 209.

What was your last name?

Eton, thank you.

Uh Mike Piney, um 4617, North Island Wild, Whitefish Bay, Wisconsin.

Thank you.

And could you both please raise your hands?

Right hands.

Do you affirm under oath that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Thank you.

Nothing to add DNS.

No additional comments.

DCD, nothing additional.

Yeah, email.

I just want to check.

I think that it appears that Alderman Jackson is in favor, but he has some general sort of concerns about daycares, but he doesn't say he's said he wrote a letter.

I don't know if you saw this, but your email said I'm not a fan of daycares as there should be some metrics for saturation.

I'm in support of all files.

Mr.

Chair, I can he I spoke to him on the phone after that.

He he is in support of the okay.

I think he was just kind of generally a comment, but he's he was in favor of this application.

How long have you been in this field operating?

Is this a new venture for you doing a daycare?

I have a daycare desk and a house daycare design open for a year and a half.

A year and a half?

Just expanding the present level you can do.

And how much work will have to go into getting the building ready for occupancy?

Uh actually very little.

Uh can you speak into the microphone?

Oh, I'm sorry.

Yeah, actually, very little.

Uh the we have uh the required bathrooms, probably the biggest thing that we have to do is prepare a warming kitchen with uh uh base cabinets and sinks.

And how much are you investing into the property to get it ready?

I don't know the exact amount.

Yeah, I know your application say 10,000, so is it about that or is it more?

Yeah, as to make okay.

And for your just a quick question for your um current home bound daycare, are you 24 hours now?

Yeah, okay.

Thank you.

And what is the term of the lease that you have at this new facility?

I have a three-year lease, I think.

No, go ahead.

So I'll make a motion on finding that the criteria for use variance has been met.

I'll um motion to approve this for a period of three years.

Second.

All right.

Uh board member right.

Aye.

Board Santa.

Board member rocker.

Aye.

Board member current.

Aye.

And Chairman Lumber.

All right.

Congratulations.

Good luck, board members.

Thank you.

See item number 42.

3500 West Oklahoma Avenue.

Request to add a community center and to continue occupying the premises as a religious assembly hall.

And this is a new operator.

Hello.

For the record, Mr.

Chair, there's now no one online.

We'll get no your names and mailing addresses, please, and then dispel your uh names if they're from the court reporter.

Max Mohammed, M-A-X-M-U-H-A-M-M-A-D, mailing address 3315 South 15th Street, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 53215.

My name is last name, I do to the spelling will be M-U-N-I-R space, uh H M A D last name is A B D U L space J A B B A R.

Last name is A B D U L space J A B B A R.

Thank you.

And could you both please raise your right hands?

That the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Yes, I do.

All right.

Uh let's hear please from DPW.

So in general, I mean DPW is not necessarily a posed.

We are a little bit uh concerned about potentially parking.

That said, I did note that the uh applicant has provided several agreements for off-street parking.

You may wish to maybe talk to the public library across the street and see if they might be willing, especially um, you know, yeah, during the month of Ramadan for you know for Iftar.

Uh also for uh Fridays, you know, depending on when your services are um to accommodate extra parking as well, uh, because we've had other facilities where yet street parking has been taken up and it becomes a neighborhood issue.

Um that said, one thing that is a condition that we've we've asked for is that uh that no vehicles be parked between the east building face and the public sidewalk on the 35th street side of the building that don't park there.

I'm sorry, the east side of the building.

The ease, so the we're 35th street side of the building.

Okay, yeah, there's like a little piece of asphalt.

Some of that's public right-of-way, some of that's not, but it is very narrow.

Um, we don't necessarily want vehicles, you know, trying to sneak in there.

There's a bus stop there.

Um, there could be issues, you know, being there.

So we that's not legal parking, don't do it.

Um, and then otherwise just remind your members to pay attention to street signs, pay attention to, yeah, thank you.

Pay attention to street signs, pay attention to you know, following the law of parking, you know, any state statutes, any city ordinances, what have you.

Thank you.

DNS.

No additional comments.

D C D.

Nothing additional.

So it sounds like you seems like you've have a pretty thought out plan of operation, and if even to try to account for some of the parking.

I know you have a neighboring business who uh has expressed some of the parking concerns, and then we have a letter from uh Alderwoman Salaripa saying basically that she just is aware of some concerns and is just kind of you know, hoping that this will work, but is asking us to do you know a shorter term of approval, which I think probably makes sense, and then you guys can determine whether what you have already is sufficient as you go, or if you're gonna need to expand and look for other op street parking options, and if everything's working out, your neighbors won't know what you know, people will see that you thought through this and will be able to uh come back for longer.

That that I mean that's that's basically uh I think what she's kind of getting at.

I don't think that's a bad suggestion, but what asked uh what other board members think about well, just a quick question for the applicant.

You know, because this is uh community center.

My guess is a lot of your communities in the area too.

Do you anticipate a lot of people walking or arriving by bus?

Yes, we do.

Yep.

There's a large community of Rohingyan and Burmese that live uh right across the street, 35th and uh 36th Street as well.

So majority of the people will be walking.

I did uh put in the application maximum of 200 uh people.

I just wanted to make sure that the max amount is listed there, and I don't want to be violating something, you know.

So yeah, uh throughout the day, like during normal prayers, it will be roughly uh 10 to 15 people.

It's very minimal on Fridays is the biggest biggest gathering.

So of course we do have volunteers.

I've already spoken to the president of the organization that we do have to control that.

I currently volunteer for three different other organizations as well.

So we are aware of it, and we are making sure that we have a plan in place to make sure it doesn't cause disruption to the neighborhood.

If I may ask, uh I did get in contact with the alderman.

I did not I'm not aware of the letter.

I was supposed to be getting a copy.

We sent it by email, so it should you may not have seen it yet.

Okay.

Well, we'll give you a copy.

I I'm I think we can proceed.

I don't I don't think it's gonna stop you know the board from from moving forward on this, but um, we'll get you a copy of this.

I can address it.

She's basically saying she's got some worries of some concerns about parking, and that she would add, she says if we do grant this approval that she would ask that it'd be one year just to see how things go.

I think that's fair.

Yeah, well, if frankly, if if you guys think that's fair and you're in agreement with it, you have a good plan.

I think we can just go forward.

And uh and then if if things work well, then come back when you have to get a react.

We won't ask for more time, you know.

Obviously, If question sorry if I may translate that.

Oh, yeah, please go there.

Like you said that I think I don't want to use that one, solves that.

Um make a motion.

I it was just a point of clarification.

It's fine.

Okay, Mr.

Chair, I want to make a motion here.

Okay, having found that the four criteria necessary to grant a special use have been met.

Um, I move to grant this special use for a period of one year, uh, subject to the notes and the file by the departments.

Before we before we have a second, I'm gonna ask a question.

When if you get your occupancy on Monday, just hypothetically, when would you be able to open up?

I'll say uh realistically within a month or two after getting the occupancy.

Yep.

I did just uh speak to him.

If he was requesting if there could be additional time because of the investment that have been made.

That's the other it's kind of it's an all substantial contract option for some I think we can maybe if you're amenable to maybe do two years just to give some some real trial periods.

I can't have been my motion.

I I would recommend the two year thank you so much approval subject to the notes by the department.

Second, madam secretary, board member right.

I board member saying RNF.

I board member rock here, I board member current.

I'm chairman.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for what you do.

Last item item number 43, 2776, South 34th Street.

The cost to occupy the premises as a light motor vehicle repair facility.

Well, could you please give us your names and mailing addresses?

Um D R E S and May you will go in.

Address 2617 South 30.

Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 53215.

Thank you.

Uh, my name is Juan Busco, and I live at 2803 South 33rd Street.

And then could you all please raise your right hands?

Um, do you uh please raise your right hands?

Do you affirm under all that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

I do you in support of this or uh well, I'm actually against it.

Okay, all right.

Well, we'll want to hear from you, and then we'll hear from DPW first bear with me.

Uh nothing to add.

Oh, digital comments on DCD, nothing additional.

All right, let's hear while we hear your objections, uh, while you share concerns first.

So my concerns are and nothing against the building owner or the new business.

I don't know them, but whenever we start talking about the quality of life in a residential area, and you start talking about a small mechanic shop, it we wish them the best in success.

But whenever they have a success or even a shop in an area where you have residential uh community, all of the noise and traffic starts to decrease the quality of life in that area.

Not to mention that that building does seem to have a history of a lot of issues.

So the alderman has been involved, um, and things have happened there.

Now, granted, I don't know if this is still the same owner.

Obviously, these are different uh people that are gonna be going there, but my house where it stands is directly in the point where any noise that's coming from there, such as you know, the garage door open and the impact, you know, drills are going off, it's directly into my area.

So the more success they have, the more the quality of life in the neighborhood starts to decrease because now you have all the traffic and all the cars coming in and out, and all of the noise pollution that starts to happen.

So it's again nothing against them personally, it's everything against the small mechanic shop, which there are so many in the neighborhood that it doesn't really require another one in the neighborhood.

There's always something else that could that could complement the neighborhood, but I don't think another car shop complements the neighborhood in any way, shape, or form.

Yeah, Mr.

Chairman, and I apologize.

That's okay.

Uh I've erred on our uh assessment.

We we have orders on the property.

There's outdoor, there's outdoor vehicle storage, there's outdoor salvage.

It it's hard to divine if that's from the property owner or the applicant.

Um I would have to amend uh our uh analysis, uh, unless the applicant can speak to that.

Um we've had complaints, they've been verified.

Um check, we may have had uh there's some there were yeah, there's some like orders in this.

So let me while you're looking at that, Pete, let me ask you the listy, the your leasing.

Correct.

So who what else is going on there?

All the vehicles outside right now are the owners.

Okay.

So once in the future to get the permit, the owner will be responsible for removing those vehicles.

Yes and no.

And then that's the thing.

So if you have a good relationship with the owner, and you know that if you if you're able to get an occupancy permit and be in control of the site and be able to control for the noise and the things that your neighbor is has expressed as concerns, which seem to be entirely the owners doing, then you can have a you may be able to have a successful operation.

But if he's gonna park stuff on your lot and do this, it's in violation of conditions that DNS might ask us to impose.

Sadly, that's gonna be your problem, and you're gonna be the one that's bearing the you know the brunt of of enforcement orders and actions.

And on behalf of Department of Public Works, I will state that because I'm aware that there's two uh uses, yeah, users of this property.

That is the reason why we do not have the, you know, normally I would put a max number of vehicles.

Um, because I cannot divine who belongs to what in this case I did not.

Just uh for the boards, you know, for that clarification.

So, what yeah, what else is happening at that property?

Like, what's the other use of uh the owner it's just using the other building for storage and storing the vehicles in the lot at the moment?

All right, close to the mic, closer to the microphone, please.

Thank you.

I I have spoken with him, and he said when we do get the permits or we do get the permits in the future, uh, he would take care of those vehicles and remove them from the lot.

You said problems.

Is this what you're talking about?

Like storage.

Um, uh, I mean, yes and no.

Uh so before before he came along.

So this before that, I mean, you had a lot of problems with repairs being done and motorcycles just racing up and down in and out of that garage.