To the Thursday, July 2nd meeting of the public safety and health committee.

It is 9 07, so we'll get started.

Um Alderman Scott Spiker, Chair of the Committee, joined to my right by Alderman Peter Burgelis, Vice Chair, joined to join to his right by Alder uh Larissa Taylor, uh, and joined uh two folks to my left by Alder Charlin Moore, also joined by our staff assistant, Ms.

Joanna Ortiz.

We'll be joined momentarily by Alderman Chambers.

Um we have a pretty full agenda, so we'll get going.

Item one is file number two six zero two seven nine and ordinance relating to parking controls.

Good morning, Mr.

Chair, members of the committee, Scott Reinbacher with the Department of Public Works.

Uh, we do have a few changes to the city's parking regulations today.

Uh, first is to install a no-stopping any time regulation on West Pottawatomi Circle uh from canal to a point south of there.

Uh second, we recommend installing a two-hour parking zone from 8 a.m.

to 4 p.m.

Um Monday through Saturday on the south side of Corcoran Avenue from Mocky to Jefferson, and then it would go to um regular meter parking from four to nine on those days.

Um I should also note that there will be another change uh to the alternate side parking regulations coming in uh agenda item number 10.

And I just wanted to let you know that the department uh supports that change as well.

So all of these changes were coordinated with the local alders and happy to answer any questions.

Okay, questions from committee members.

If not, Alder Burgells would move to recommend passage and hearing no objections so ordered.

Item number two, file number two six zero two eight zero, an ordinance relating to traffic controls.

Uh yes, today we have several changes relating to intersection and trucking regulations in the city.

Uh first is to install east and westbound stop signs at the intersection of Euclid and Griffin.

Uh second, we are proposing to install stop signs in the northbound and southbound directions at the intersection of Barnard Avenue and South 22nd place.

Uh third, we are proposing to install stop signs in the east and westbound directions at Clayton Crest and 24th Street.

Uh fourth, we're proposing to install stop signs in the north and southbound directions on South 20th place at uh Wilbur Street.

And finally, we are proposing to implement a no-trucking three tons or over restriction in an alleyway uh bounded by Mangold, Elvina, um, the Interstate 94, and South 20th Street due to um trucks using it as a cut-through street.

So all of these have been coordinated with the local Alders and happy to answer any questions.

Okay.

Questions, comments, committee members.

If not, Alder Taylor would move to recommend passage and hearing no objections so ordered.

Thank you.

Um taking item 15 out of order.

Uh this is item 260351, substitute resolution relating to acceptance and funding of the Wisconsin Department of Workforce Development Fast Forward Grant.

Um, they need a little more time on this one, so Alder Moore would move to hold this to the call to the chair.

We'll uh address it at a future meeting.

Um, and hearing no objections so ordered.

Um, and item 16 is file number 260381, uh sponsored by Alder Bergellis communication from fire department relating to feasibility of using light duty vehicles for medical runs.

I'm told this one will also need to be held to the call of the chair.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh, just briefly, the fire department has had a very busy week.

They asked for extra time to have that report ready.

Uh, we will not need to, we will not need to hear from the fire department today.

We'll just hold that until the next cycle.

It's Christmas.

We're all finding.

All right.

So given that, Alder Bergales would move to hold this to the call of the chair and hearing no objections so ordered.

Um okay, back to item three on the agenda.

This is file number two five one five.

Uh, I'm sorry, two five one three five three, reappointment of Byron Marshall Jr.

to the safety and civic commission by the mayor.

Is Mr.

Marshall with us?

Not then.

Alder Moore would move that we hold this to the college chair if he appears later in the meeting.

We can address it then.

Perfect.

Item four is file number two five two one four one appointment of John Fletcher to the Safety and Civic Commission by Alder Taylor.

What's that?

You're Mike.

Oh Alder Taylor, um I don't know if the mayor's office is gonna introduce, but this is by Alder Taylor, so um Alder Taylor.

Oh well, I I think this is great that um Mr.

Fletcher has shown up.

Uh he is um very active in the community and uh very active in um the area of safety in regards to uh martial arts.

Um uh and so I think that he has proven himself to be uh a great asset to the community, and I think that he'd be a great asset to this um safety and civic commission overall.

Very good.

Uh Mr.

Fletcher, would you like to say any words about why you're interested in serving on the commission?

Well, thank you for even considering me to do this.

Uh so basically I have a business and I've been doing this for six years in the city, uh, just teaching public safety and self-defense.

Um willing and willing and able to work with you guys on some great ideas moving forward.

The biggest thing I think our community needs is education uh overall about everything, not just one aspect of public safety.

So there's a lot of things.

Uh adults, uh women's safety, everything.

So just can't wait to get to work.

Okay.

There are any questions for Mr.

Fletcher.

If not, do I have a motion for confirmation?

Can I make the motion?

Alder Taylor would move confirm to recommend confirmation.

Are there any objections?

If not, then so ordered.

Thank you very much for your willingness to serve.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh we're joined by Alder Chambers.

Um, welcome.

Uh moving on to item five, file number two six zero two three two, reappointment of Dana World Patterson to the Board of Fire and Police Commissioners by the Mayor.

Good morning.

Good morning.

Good morning.

Good morning.

So if FPC or the Mayor's office wants to do an introduction, we'll hear from Miss World Patterson.

Yes.

Uh good morning, Chair, committee members, Leon Todd, Executive Director of the Fire and Police Commission.

Uh, I'm joined to my left by Fire and Police Commissioner Dana World Patterson, uh, whom Mayor Johnson has nominated for a second term on the Fire and Police Commission board.

Uh Commissioner World Patterson first joined the FPC in mid-December of 2021.

Uh and since that time, she has served the FPC and uh the city of Milwaukee with intelligence, integrity, dedication, sound judgment, and with care and concern uh for the people of Milwaukee and their safety.

Uh I know uh you all likely recall uh some of the issues and troubles that uh uh were occurring uh related to the FPC in 2020 and 2021.

I won't uh bore you with rehashing all of that, but it's safe to say that uh if it not uh uh crisis level, it had reached a near crisis level and change was necessary.

What we needed was good people with uh who were honest, who wanted to serve the people of Milwaukee uh with intelligence and sound judgment to step up and serve on the fire and police commission, and uh and that involved uh a degree of risk, and it was something that not everybody wanted to do.

Uh Commissioner World Patterson stepped forward because she wanted to serve the people of Milwaukee and make Milwaukee uh a safe and just place for all of our residents and citizens.

Um and that was so very critical.

If we had not gotten uh people like her and Commissioner Raimi to step up and do that, I don't know what would have happened.

Uh Commissioner World Patterson uh brings a wealth of experience and and uh a unique perspective and uh uh background to the board since 2014.

She has been the CEO and also the founder of Foundations for Freedom, uh which is a non-profit that uh seeks to combat human trafficking and uh and strengthen women and girls that have been trafficked uh so that they can thrive.

So she brings that uh perspective to the fire and police commission.

Uh and after having served on the fire and police commission for four years and change, she has a wealth of experience within public safety and the operations of uh the FPC.

I'm very glad and proud that we're at a point where we have commissioners, uh such solid and good commissioners who are now at a point where they are able to be reappointed and we can continue to have that that institutional knowledge, uh stability and strength moving forward.

So I'm very pleased uh that the mayor has uh nominated her for a second term.

I strongly support that, and I would ask uh for your favorable consideration.

I'll turn it over to Commissioner Ward Patterson with that.

Okay, thank you so much.

Uh it has been a pleasure serving the city of Milwaukee and the Fire and Police Commission.

It has been no small feat to stay abreast of what's happening, read all the information, be committed to the meetings, and the community.

And one of the greatest, I mean, we've had many wins throughout this um, and to know that now the fight the um police department has to respond sooner to um the community with regard to um the videos.

Um, there are just so many wins that we've had within the pol within the fire and police commission.

We have a stellar director who runs a very well-oiled machine within the fire and police commission and our team, we're they're just smart people committed to the city of Milwaukee.

So I appreciate the opportunity to continue to serve in this capacity.

I thought about it, because it does require, it requires something, it requires capacity, requires time and commitment, but I just felt that there was so much more that um we could do together.

So I'm happy to be nominated and to have the opportunity to serve.

Thank you very much.

Questions from committee members, Mr.

Chair, Alder Moore.

Thank you so much.

Um Miss Warl Patterson, thank you so much for um your commitment, not only to our city but to our community.

Um can you remind us what is the length of the term?

Five years.

So you're committing to another five-year term.

I've thought about it.

Thank you.

Thank you for that.

Um really quick.

What I think the only question that I would ask you is, you know, um, what would be one of the ch most challenging things being a part of the commission?

It's personal because I am a um founder.

I'm can we Foundations for Freedom Inc.

serves diligently.

The individuals in Milwaukee.

I just received my masters in clinical mental health counseling, so I'm building that practice.

Um, continuing to serve well as the founder of Foundations for Freedom Inc.

And I don't want to do anything halfway.

So committing to the fire and police commission is important.

So that's and it's challenging.

Because it's a lot of things that I endeavored to do well.

I would say that's where I am, just balancing life and wanting to enjoy the process.

And again, I did not take it lightly that it's a five-year commitment, and I want to do well, want to serve the people of Milwaukee well.

We don't take it for granted that this chamber fills up with community wanting us to hear their concerns.

I I take that to heart, that we listen well, and that we also serve the um the systems of Milwaukee.

We have to do it all well.

And so it's it's challenging work, but I'm committed to it.

Thank you.

I'm here for it all.

Thank you.

And Mr.

Chair and Committee members, I definitely have to agree with uh Mr.

Todd that we have a great, amazing um group of commissioners that is um serving on FPC, and I cannot just based on my experience knowing Miss World Patterson over the last several quite quite some time, your commitment um to our community and again your willingness um to serve on this commission.

When the time is appropriate, I would love to recommend recommendation or passage, recommend passage.

Um Alder Bergels, you're next in the queue.

Thank you very much.

Uh there are a lot of challenges with the fire and police commission.

You've seen the change with Act 12, where um a policymaking body is now an advisory body, um, and we've had some difficult policies come through FPC, some supported by the chief, some uh by the police chief, some not.

Um, talk to us a little bit about how you're able to navigate that with the with the new changes in Act 12.

Uh with the changes, very good question.

The changes with Act 12 are a bummer, but you know, we endeavor to just do our job well with what we have with um the ability to move in a way that serves the systems, the police department, the fire department, uh, and the opportunity to serve our community.

So we we're just working with what we have, and we're doing the best with that.

Um, if we could change it, I would prefer that we could because we were able to do more, but now we have the common council.

We have other people that are able to look at what we've been doing and to help the heavy lift.

So that's we're just getting it done with the capacity that we have.

And we've we've seen um uh more often than not, whenever there's a policy change pending, uh, or that uh the commission or the council uh indicate that they want to see something change in the police department that most often the police chief will implement that change on his own before any action becomes um before any action takes place either at the commission or on the council or in the committee.

Um, one of those changes was uh the recent change in police pursuit policy where the fire chair where the police chief uh adjusted policy in February, but the commission continued uh their work that had already started to make recommendations uh and policy changes for pursuit policy.

Um walk me through why uh the commission thought it was important and and if it and if this wasn't your um legislation or your policy, uh that's perfectly fine.

But I'm really curious why the commission continued to uh work on a pursuit policy change just a month after the the police chief already had implemented something.

I think it's critical to hear from community.

The community has been filling was filling the chamber with their opinions about how this is affecting the city of Milwaukee.

We had to listen.

That added maybe two hours to our meeting.

So the opportunity to hear from community to see how not just the system felt about it.

I mean, he's our police chief, pardon me.

I'm not taking any anything from that, but it was critical to hear from the community, and they continue to come.

They continue to come.

They wanted us to know that they that the community is not pleased with the way things are being run, and we had to listen.

They felt that this was the place where they could voice their opinion.

I think that there is a critical need as well, and essential essentials for the balance that we had before Act 12, because we were able to offer another way of running the city.

We're not police officers.

And high five to police officers.

So it's a system that is governed on its own.

We can talk about that.

And so the continuation after the police chief had already made his determination, it's just something that we have to do, and that the fire and police commission has said that we're here for.

Excellent.

Thank you very much.

Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

On that point, um, you know, I I would definitely support your passage um for the reappointment.

Um my colleague Arnold Brighell has brought up a good point, and you brought up some great talking points far as the listen to community in regards to that particular item that we held um with the police chase.

Um the balance is where I struggle with, um, with understanding, because to me, I don't think the balance was really heard in that particular situation.

I I don't think the balance was really heard and understood.

Um, you know, and that's why I didn't support, you know, the um the you know, to override the SOP, um, because you know, I think there are you know, individuals who who frequent your your hearings quite often, and they are within their right to do a lot of great work, and they have done great work.

Um I'm this you know they're exercising their civic duty, but there are other people who quite frankly just don't want to be involved with some of some of that same thing and rather go to their representatives to you know hear that um, or you know, go to you know uh director Todd um to you know counter counter out or counterbalance what is being portrayed or what is being said to you.

Um so I I guess my question is how how will you continue to manage that balance that you mentioned um when um making those decisions or when given you know Chief Norman or Chief Lipsky uh directives when we may have to you know, you know, go over uh the SOPs and everything.

I'm thankful that you all have a say-so, you know, that now there's another body that has the ability to chime in.

We're working with what we have, yeah.

You know, so we're doing the best with what we what we have.

We're able to listen to community, get their input, listen to the systems, the MPD, um, and listen to what they want to do, and ultimately the way it's set up, the chief has the final say.

Yeah, we don't have that same leverage anymore.

So we're just using what we have, creating a platform for for the city of Milwaukee to understand, and then passing it on.

Yeah, I got you.

That's what we have.

Yeah, and and I'm gonna make it perfectly clear, as I said back in 2023, and as I would say now, I will hope, it is my hope that should, and if we do get the trifecta, y'all get your powers back.

Yes, absolutely.

I really think it's a travesty that they went that route.

Um, you are the oversight for a reason.

Um, and uh I didn't think the system was broken at that time.

So um, yeah, I'll just I'll just leave it at that.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Thank you.

Uh I guess I have a question.

Um, so five-year term, what we hope to accomplish in the next year, five years given that there is a restriction.

Um, I guess one thing picking up on Alder Chambers' line of questioning, um, with respect to the SOP and the policymaking authority you previously had, um, don't have that now.

So I guess I would stress that it's even uh more important than ever before that FPC have good relationship and open communication with council members because you may decide on a change and present it at committee, but unless there are conversations preceding that, um, we can have kind of what happened last time.

So one of the new roles, I guess, um that you'd be signing up for is if you do want to have a policy change and you feel like it's being supported strongly in the community and the FPC is speaking with one voice, then part of your new job is to lobby us and say, hey, no, this is what the policy changes we're recommending.

This is why we think it should go through, and and that's now part of the job if you want to be effective.

Excellent, thank you.

Um question, um, since it's looking back on the last term, um, the FPC supported a very large salary increase for the police chief and subsequently the fire chief.

Um, the police chief one was a little strange to my ear in that it was advanced ahead of the normal time frame, and it was during a period where facial recognition was a big issue, and it just struck me as curious politically that the FPC moved so swiftly to um have a big increase to the police chief's salary without holding him to task about the facial recognition stuff, which then came to a head this spring.

So can you say I uh you don't have to speak for the whole commission, but why was the commission so anxious to give such a large salary increase to the police chief without um holding him accountable to what the commission's later voice was um whether I agree with it or not about um reticence with regard to the facial recognition technology?

You're asking many layers in that within that question.

What I remember and no problem, what I remember most is that the police chief as well as the fire chief were severely underpaid, severely underpaid for a national search, and within that correct, yes, okay, and within that um time frame, the chief, we knew that.

I don't want to do you want to speak to that.

I can set some some context for that if that's if that's okay.

Sure.

Are you are you seeking appointment as well?

Okay, all right, I'll do my best.

Um, also within that time, we had a uh a commitment from the chief that he was willing to continue to do his best in Milwaukee, that he did not want to leave Milwaukee, although he was looking at other cities and other cities were looking at him.

So we were really trying to leverage his stay, even though we weren't at the best place at that time with all of the T's being crossed and the I's being dotted, as far as the other things that were on the table.

So we're balancing keeping a chief, knowing that if he left, we were going to have to pay even more to bring in a good chief to the city of Milwaukee, and because of his commitment, plus the things that were still on the table that he needed to do um have come forward, it was just a balance of time.

And um that's the short answer that we had to raise the salary to keep them here, knowing that anyone else coming was going to require more dollars, and then working with, I mean, there were many things on the table that still needed to be done that the now we don't have control over, right?

That the chief is able to decide what he wanted to do.

He could feel our pressure, but ultimately the way things are set up in the city of Milwaukee now, the chief has the final say.

Right.

I would stress that you still have a power that the council doesn't have, which is the reappointment of the chief.

So that is where you have extreme leverage, leverage that we don't hope to possess.

So it would seem to be politics 101 that when you have that leverage, you would secure from him certain commitments about issues that you care deeply about.

And given what was happening with facial recognition, and it seems like FPC's reservations there, it just struck me as odd that that would not have been a discussion point prior to one his reappointment, but two is reappointment with you know a 25 and percent increase in his salary or whatever it was.

So uh again getting back to my earlier point of in the future this job will require some politics and in working with the council and trying to persuade them that certain policy changes are needed, and so that brought to mind a case where I think maybe some political skill was not applied when you when you had leverage.

So that's why I was asking about it.

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um other questions, comments, Mr.

Chair?

Alter Chambers?

Um I'm just wanting to piggyback off of that line of um questioning.

Um, just go back to what I said prior, you know, closing out that I think you guys should have the full oversight.

Um, you know, I agree with you, um, Ms.

World Pass and I agree with the commission on the decision to reappoint Chief Norman and Chief Lipske.

I think it was a no-brainer.

Um, I think in order for us to have competent chiefs that care for their, you know, departments and our uh a pillar um within the community, you have to pay.

And you know, I think the the raises were were well deserved.

Um I just I guess to that point is um, I guess my next question is is that uh where do you see the commission five years from now?

I'll end it with that.

Where do you see when we come up for a next reappointment?

Where do you think we only get two, but that's all right?

This is your lab, hoorah.

So what what do you what would you like to see the commission moving forward or you know, at the end of your your next tenure at a reappointing?

What I have come to appreciate is that the commission, we're all committed to the work of the fire and police, um, seeing that they're that the work is done well.

And we show up prepared.

The opportunity for lobbying and politicking a little bit more, we're we will have to add that into our toolkit.

We're going to have to, it's not business as usual.

So that would be one thing that we're going to have to use our muscle a little bit more as we're figuring out um working with less than, but still using our muscle to accomplish the things that we want to do.

That's a given.

Um also that leveraging with the council.

I belie I'm I appreciate that and welcome it.

Some of the heavy lifting, once we talk about it, is left to our chair and our and the vice as well as the director.

So getting involved in that a little bit more, I welcome that also.

Um I think just being able to move the needle in a positive direction for the city of Milwaukee so that we have a legacy that can be catapulted into greater works for our city.

That we're not um left with less than, that the city of Milwaukee is not um discontent with all of the decisions that are being made by uh the the system of the five the the police department and um we'll just continue to do our part that I think that we're doing a good job.

I think that we're showing up that we're prepared and those tips that you've offered will incorporate.

Absolutely.

Well, I I'm I'm done with you being in the Hasi.

Okay, I didn't expect thank you.

Thank you for being finished.

Apologies, Ms.

Lord.

Yeah, we have Alder Taylor, but you drew the short strong going before uh Mr.

Raimi because he got you got all the tough questions.

Um, yeah.

Just one quick question.

Is this a pay position?

And how much is the pay?

We receive a about 242 dollars a month.

Okay, thank you.

The official uh uh salary is it's 6,600 a year, and it's broken down into bi-weekly paychecks, so whatever that comes to, I'm sure Commissioner.

Oh, every bi weekly, two forty-two by weekly.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

With that, um Alder Moore has moved to recommend confirmation.

Any discussion?

Um, could you put me down as an abstention, please?

And uh Alder Taylor is gonna be listed as an abstention.

Any uh objections?

If not, then it passes on a 401 vote uh recommendation to council.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Item number six, file number two six zero two three three, reappointment of Lynel Raimi to the Board of Fire and Police Commissioners by the mayor.

Good morning, good morning.

Good morning.

All right, and if I could just have a uh uh a minute or so to introduce Commissioner Ramey, and I also want to give him a huge shout out.

Uh he was appointed in July of 2021, and he was part of the first cohort of new commissioners uh that I was uh uh uh a part of uh when I joined the commission in early 2021.

Uh he was one of three new commissioners, all of whom were fantastic.

He's the only one that's still here with us after five years.

Uh and again, I won't repeat everything, but just to reemphasize what a pivot pivotal and transitional time that was.

Uh had we not gotten such good commissioners and good uh city residents to step forward.

Uh I don't know what would have happened.

It was exactly what was necessary to write uh the FPC ship, so to speak.

I think that uh a big part of that has been done.

Uh this, in my humble and unbiased opinion, is one of the best iterations of the FPC that has ever existed.

They uh collaborate very well with each other.

There's no infighting, there's no integrity or ethics problems.

They collaborate very well with the FPC department and myself uh with Chief Norman, Chief Lipskey and uh Director Bueno.

Um I believe that they have uh appointed chiefs that are at the top of their game overwhelmingly supported by uh uh members of the Milwaukee community.

Uh and they've done a lot of good work.

Uh Commissioner Ramey uh in particular.

Uh I think he is our most senior commissioner now, uh, and he has that uh that institutional knowledge, and so his reappointment will continue uh uh that stability, we'll keep that institutional knowledge and experience, uh, and uh we'll continue the good work uh that we've been doing over the last five years with the FPC uh just very briefly about Commissioner Raimi.

Uh as I mentioned, he joined the FPC uh almost exactly five years ago uh before that and and continuing since then uh since I think uh about 2019, he has been the uh executive director of mentor Greater Milwaukee.

Uh so he has uh in his uh, I suppose square job, if you want to call it that, uh focused on on youth mentorship, uh improving things for uh uh young people within the city of Milwaukee, and he brings that knowledge and that experience to the board.

Uh and I have no doubt that uh his reappointment will uh uh contribute uh in the future to a uh safer and more just city uh for the people of Milwaukee, and so I would uh respectfully request uh that you uh uh uh take up his nomination or his reappointment favorably.

Thank you.

Very good, thank you, Mr.

Remy.

Um first, excuse me.

Excited to be here, excited to uh have the opportunity to continue to serve, um, especially post act twelve.

Um, you know, the work we've done this previous five years has been exciting, um, and especially helping calm the FPC at a time where it was a little rough.

So we're just excited for the next five years post Act 12 to continue to keep that calmness and and move the commission forward.

Thank you.

Very good.

And uh for Director Tudd, these positions are ones that are required to fill out a statement of economic interest as well on the economic on the integrity issue.

Yes, okay.

Just making sure it's an important position.

Okay.

Questions from committee members, Mr.

Chair, Alder Bergellis.

Thank you.

Um, just want to get your perspective on uh working on a policy change that the chief already uh had implemented, uh continuing to have that, taking it a step further before results from the chiefs uh policy change can be measured.

You know, I and I think Commissioner Moore Patterson spoke to it, but what I will say is I do think a lot of what was going on was community-related, like right, like coming into the chambers, having conversation.

I do think we're learning the new norm and how to adjust and how to now handle that better.

I do think it was brought up earlier.

What is lobbying to you all look like?

And I think in this situation it was more driven by community voice and and in some cases a need for commissioners to continue to fight a fight, but I do think a lesson was learned in the sense of how to pause or put a pulse button on something that's probably not necessary at the time.

So okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Um I guess one question I didn't ask uh Commissioner World Patterson was um your position is one where you get appointed by the mayor and then confirmed by the council.

Um, but uh in order to serve the community, you want to have a measure of independence from both.

Um how what have you done in your history and uh to show that sort of independence?

Again, uh the the case I brought up before, I know the mayor was supportive of the chief's reappointment, which I'm not saying I was a host in any way, but um the the salary increase um and that seemed to run through kind of quickly.

Um one might have thought an independent commission would say, Hey, uh let's hold our horses there, especially until we get this facial recognition thing under um consideration.

And again, not saying I was necessarily opposed there, but um it seemed like the commission was so uh the question is what have y'all done or what have you done personally to demonstrate this kind of independence and how do you walk the line of being an appointee of the mayor without um just an instrument of him?

Well, I think like if you know to talk about that topic with um Chief Norman, it was a disconnect from the mayor's office.

This wasn't him or anyone else saying to us we need to get this done.

It's like we knew who we had, we knew we wanted to keep him, and we looked at his track record from the previous years, not what was going on.

We do know this, the chief of police, the chief of the fire department will have continual new issues.

Um and so we graded and looked at Chief Norman's work and body of work, and and so that's why for us, we take into consideration what we have in front of us, knowing there would be new areas, and the and the great thing I will say is this what also made us wanted to move forward is seeing Chief Norman's growth when it came to situation.

So when we had dialogue, when we asked for certain things, no matter what it was, whether you go back to no knock warrants, whether you go back to video release, the conversation from a growth and and I think professional respect as an independent commission was always there.

So for me, um when we have situations like that, we take into account in this case we're talking about a reappointment or and I like to use the word rehire almost.

We took in account his work that we had in the past, which was able for us to move forward with the reappointment, and I think again, in our new norm, continuing to look at what we have in front of us and on the plate.

So, um, focusing back on I know I asked like at least two questions there, but the independence of both the mayor and the council, is there anything that you demonstrated over the last five years that would um make the public uh confident in that independence I would say like for me you know I I like to say I like to listen and hear what's going on right so when community comes in into the space and they have issues or they have topics they want to bring up my objective is to hear them out and then have conversations with them to give an example um lit um leaders igniting change um transformation of change I'll be right um you know they they came they have more they wanted to see the commission from a community element I met with them separate from the commission meeting to have dialogue on what this can look like to support so again for me as you know my I think best trait is how do I listen to what the community is asking for and then serve based on their need um specifically um and not really get caught up in a lot of the people like I like to say take mic moments and take you know um a platform because it's a mic in front of them I try to listen through all of that and then figure out what's the best need to have public safety overall be seen in this community as something we are working towards not an individual's personal agenda so and I did notice so I watch the fire and police commission hearings a lot of the time and you have a certain audience that appears regularly.

So what and I'm not not faulting you for this but as alders we have interactions at committee but we also have daily interactions with our constituents.

So what sort of efforts do you as a commissioner take to make sure the pulse you're getting is the pulse of the broader community as opposed to the folks who show up and are organized at these hearings.

For me you know again it's an inviting conversation right outside of this when we have this issue and I said this publicly at the commission meeting when people were coming up and talking about driving the reckless driving I was also here when people were asking the police to do the chases.

So I was here full circle moments to hear and see.

So for like again for me I invite community members anyone if they want to have dip deeper conversations or if there's something that I feel that you know I'm hearing for lack of better words truth and purpose I'll request to say and again ED has said like when we met with Lit it was me saying I would love to have more conversation and be involved in that so I again I try to look at people are not just on a regular here to take a microphone and use a platform as those who are are literally trying to align and ensure public safety is working for everyone.

Okay I appreciate that comment thank you.

Any other questions from committee members confirmation yes okay and did get it easy if we're I was absolutely Mr Chair yeah I don't have any questions um I just want to wrap things up by um just saying how um I've known Linnell for many many years and just his commitment um for this community is just extraordinary and I'm just I'm honored that you're on this commission thank you really for your service thank you okay and Alder Taylor?

Okay.

When the time comes I'm going to abstain again but I do want to explain that I do have a lot of respect for Mr.

Ramey and a lot of respect for uh Ms.

Patterson World Patterson in the respective um positions that they are in and how you um serve the community um both of you are very dynamic people um I think that um it is great for the commission to search for very dynamic people who um really do serve the community and pour their heart and soul into what they do and so I respect that um however the um fire and complete police commission I I'm such an advocate for um our police officers and what they do, and I've I've shown that um I think it's a hard, it's a hard position.

It's a hard very hard position to be in um because you have very um sensitive issues.

You have things that the public really do um care about and they really speak out about um reckless driving.

You just mentioned that.

Um and I think be because of that, um I'm just going to abstain right now because I just think that it's um I'm not I'm not ready to um fill those fill that those positions right now just looking at how important it is to really um be able to represent the public's best interest and I know you just said that too that it's really essential to represent um the public and what is a best interest of all and that's just so hard to be in, and um not that so I don't want you to think that is that I don't have any respect for the respect of what you do because I think you both really do pour your heart and soul into it.

I'm just going to abstain at this time.

Okay, very good.

Are there is there a motion then?

Uh, Chambers.

Uh Alder Chambers uh would move to recommend confirmation um and hearing one abstention this passes on a 401 vote.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Moving on to three quick health department files.

Uh item seven is file number two six zero two four six resolution authorizing the commissioner of help to execute agreements to facilitate abatement of lead hazards and residential properties.

Good morning, Mr.

Chair.

Aaron Chapinski, budget and administration manager for the health department.

This file uh is noted authorizes the commissioner to execute these three-party agreements between owners, contractors, and the health department related to our lead abatement projects.

Um just make sure that everybody's liability is covered, everybody's got the same expectations, allows us and the contractor into the home.

Mr.

Chair.

Alder Bergellis.

Uh do any of these agreements um provide for closing a major artery in the middle of the city of Milwaukee for lead abatement.

Is this for I'm sorry, for lead laterals or for lead paint?

This is for homes.

For homes.

Homes.

I will reserve that question uh for lead lateral project.

I hope we never close an arterial alderman.

I promise we won't.

Not for not for residential properties, no.

Lincoln Avenue was shut down for a week.

For residential lead abatement, sorry, just to be clear.

I'm glad to tell my colleagues at the waterworks uh to give you a call.

Thank you.

Uh other questions.

If not, then Alder Moore would move to recommend adoption and hearing no objections so ordered.

Item eight, file number two six zero two five six, substitute resolution relative to acceptance and funding of the 2026 through 2027 evaluation of molecular detection methods for genital ulcer disease grant from the association of public health labs.

Mr.

Chair, committee members, this is 40,000.

It is a one-time investment in our labs capacity and ability to conduct additional tests for syphilis.

That is a common infection uh that we see at our CUNY Health Clinic, and uh this will expand our ability permanently to test it.

So it's sort of a a build-out cost.

Once it's done, uh the same staff do the same testing and we have that capacity for the foreseeable future.

So we're grateful to APHL for helping us get there.

Very good.

Excellent.

Um with that, Alder Chambers would move to recommend adoption and hearing no objections, so ordered.

Item nine, file number two six zero two eight four, substitute resolution relative to acceptance and funding of the 2026 through 2027 Wisconsin well woman program grant from the Wisconsin Department of Health Services.

Mr.

Chair, committee members, this is annual funding uh from the state of Wisconsin.

Most of it is general purpose revenue, so it's actual state funds as opposed to pass through federal funds.

Um there is a component that's funded by the CDC that is still in place as far as we know.

Um and this lets MHD uh and our um Milwaukee breast cancer breast and cervical cancer awareness program provide case management and support to um at-risk women who need to have regular mammograms.

Um, and what we do is essentially help them connect to a provider, make sure the results and any follow-ups are handled, um navigate billing.

The state actually pays full uh cost for mammography and other services for uh eligible patients, and so we make sure that if they get a bill by accident, they uh work through that.

Uh we also go out and promote the availability of the program as well as just general um uh breast health and uh cervical health.

Okay.

Questions about this grant?

Grant if not, Alder Taylor would move uh to recommend adoption or referral to finance some personnel and hearing no objections, so ordered.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Item 10, file number 260367.

This is an ordinance relating to exception street parking, sponsored by Alders Amarifa.

Hello, Ms.

Doherty.

Would you care to introduce yourself?

Sure.

Patricia Doherty, legislative aid for Alderwoman's Amber Repa.

Okay.

Any details about the file?

Just that it's a result of numerous neighborhood meetings, and all of those residents are in strong support.

It's just a very densely populated neighborhood, and this is really needed.

And this would remove the requirement for alternate side parking so that folks could park on both sides of the street.

Yes.

Okay.

Any questions?

Any comments?

If not, then Alder Burgels would recommend move to recommend passage and hearing no objections, sorted.

Thank you.

Okay, moving on to our three scooter files.

Um item 11, file number 260340.

This is a communication from the Department of Public Works relating to the safety protocols in place for the operation and storage of electric scooters with an emphasis on operating on sidewalks.

This is sponsored by Alderman Bauman and Alder Chambers.

Alder Bauman.

Yes, thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh, this file is there's three files actually.

This is the communication file uh in response to the very serious uh accident that occurred on Martin Luther King Drive about two weeks ago, where a scooter was operating on the sidewalk, which is of course illegal, both under ordinance and under the contract with uh Lyme, and that individual was uh hit, severely injured, and I suspect is still in the hospital recovering from some pretty serious injuries that will require a long recovery time.

Uh I think everyone in this panel, probably everybody in this room is well aware that sidewalk riding is pretty rampant, and so rampant, in fact, that uh especially in the denser parts of the city, which is primarily my district, the third district, the 12th district, and the 6th district.

Uh I've noticed that uh in those areas, sidewalk riding is almost a rule, not the exception.

In the neighborhoods, I do see a lot more usage of streets.

Uh the residential side streets on the west side of my district.

Uh, there is some scooter usage, but they do pretty much stay on the streets because the streets are a lot lower traffic and a lot less traffic.

Uh I hear the argument made that, well, the street our our street network is unsafe for a 15 mile an hour vehicle exposed to uh motor vehicles as they are, and so riders naturally gravitate towards the sidewalk because they feel safer, and that's just not the arrangement we have with Lyme, and that's not what our ordinances require.

And I I understand that concern, actually.

And so we're getting a lot of uh comment to the effect that well, we need to completely redesign our streets to accommodate micro mobility.

And uh to that I say great in 20 years we might accomplish that at the cost of five or ten million dollars a year.

Uh, to redo our arterial networks, even in just the denser alderman districts, would be tens of millions of dollars and years to accomplish.

Uh that leads me to a conclusion that maybe Milwaukee is not ready for micro mobility because our street infrastructure is just not suited for the safe operation of those types of vehicles.

Because one thing that has to stop is the sidewalk riding, because that poses a direct threat to the health safety and welfare of pedestrians in neighborhoods where we want to encourage walking and walkability.

So I guess we're here to hear from the department initially as to, okay, uh, what are the requirements?

I mean, I I read over the contract.

Uh Lyme is clearly required to prevent sidewalk riding.

Uh it's rampant, instead.

Uh, the law is being violated repeatedly.

Uh MPD does not enforce it.

Uh, really, no one enforces it.

I'm not sure what Lyme does in the way of enforcement, other than to put some sort of uh lame message on their app, which I'm sure anybody in the excitement of getting on a scooter doesn't even bother to read, and little small print on the Lyme scooter itself that said no sidewalk writing.

That's just not adequate.

Geofencing that we have heard is the solution, clearly doesn't work or is not implemented.

One of the two has to be true because if all these sidewalks are geofenced, we all see the sidewalk riding.

It's either not functional or not in effect.

Well, one of the two has to be true.

So I want to hear what what is being done presently.

Uh what solutions the department has to eliminate sidewalk riding, period.

Get eliminated because if it can't be eliminated and this public safety threat continues, then we have to seriously question the viability of a scooter program at all until such time as our street infrastructure can accommodate slow-moving micro mobility vehicles.

And I might just add we're not dealing with uh some entrepreneurial company here.

I handed out to the committee an article from uh Yahoo Finance.

Apparently, two days ago, Lyme issued an initial public offering, raised 167 million dollars, they now have a market capitalization of 1.6 billion dollars.

We're essentially dealing with a wee energy situation here where we have a monopolist that can do what they please, and I think they're beyond the control of Department of Public Works to do anything.

And that's another subject I want to get into is I think they're up for renewal at some point, and I think we should reopen the process.

There's a small company that has a couple hundred scooters sitting two blocks away in storage that is owned by a local entrepreneur in Milwaukee, who many of us are familiar with.

They're ready to go.

They're still interested in providing scooter service in Milwaukee.

This would be a local operator.

The CEO of this company could come to these hearings and we can talk to them directly instead of some individual in California over which we have no direct control or influence and probably can't even contact and would never return a phone call.

So I think there's a variety of issues that need to be discussed here, and I'm very interested to hear from the department as to what's the plan to eliminate once and for all sidewalk writing.

Okay, very good.

Before we go to the department, Alder Chambers, your co-sponsor.

Did you want to say anything or we just kicked off to the department?

I'll be brief, Mr.

Chair.

Uh uh I wish I really appreciate Arnold Obama for bringing this uh follow-up.

I think it was a tragic situation to happen on MLK.

Um, I'm kind of on the opposite side of you know my colleague in respects to um next steps.

Um, however, I do think a conversation need to be had, and I think it's not necessarily more towards the department, I think it's more towards the operator, which is Lyme.

Um, you know, I I do think it's disappointed that they're not here.

Um, you know, I I I think that during the bidding process, I think it was perfectly clear that they say they have the technology to um detect people on the sidewalk.

I frequently ride the scooters.

I think you'll have documentation of me pictures of me on the scooters.

Um, you know, I I do see like if I'm on let's just say Wisconsin going over the bridge, and I'm literally like close, they say I'm on a sidewalk.

I'm like, yeah, I'm not on the sidewalk.

So it's kind of, you know, it's kind of like a give and take situation.

So I'm just interested to hear what the department had to say, and I'm almost certain we're gonna be holding this file because I definitely want to hear from Lyme.

Um, you know, I definitely want to hear what type of steps they'll need to take moving forward.

Um, so I'm I'm assuming this is not the end of this conversation.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Thank you.

All right.

Uh so Department of Public Works, Salder Bauman had asked several questions.

If you could use that to frame your discussion, Commissioner, introduce yourself, please, and those at the table with you.

Sure.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Gerald Krushie on the Commissioner of Public Works.

Um, I have uh Mike Anston, which is in our multi-mobility group, and I have uh Zach Roder, who is basically the lead of our scooter program right now, which we'll change in the future.

We'll go through some of the details.

Um, I'll just before I hand it over to Mike and Zach to go over a lot of the details on the sidewalk program itself.

I do want to make a statement that I think the city is ready for micromobility.

Um, it is by the number of ridership.

I mean, scooters in the past two years in the program, in the past, the permanent program, there's been 2.75 million rides, which is providing an alternative option outside of a vehicle.

And so we did have a tragic incident that had occurred, which is true, and we do not support sidewalk riding um as a fact.

But we've had nine people, pedestrians killed in vehicles.

We've had another 179 people severely injured because of vehicles.

Scooters are one option for micromobility in the city, and so as a department, we support that to end those last mile connections, give people an alternative to connect to point A to point B.

Um the department still is, you know, we have 20 miles of protected bike lane that we've installed to date.

We have another 34.5 miles of protected bikeway that we are under development or funded coming in the future.

Um, it's not only for scooters, it's also for um bicycle riders.

Um, and the numbers I'm gonna that we're giving you here, this is outside, that's just scooters.

There are other people that are riding bikes.

We have a butler uh uh shared program, people are using and purchasing scooters by themselves outside of the line program, which we can restrict.

I will say that there are other scooters that people purchase from department stores or online, they go much faster.

We are very serious about monitoring the speeds that we allow our vendors to go through, and I'll have Mike and Zach go through that.

But I do think the city is ready for that.

As a large city that exists in in the United States, every other large municipality has the same and are doing the same.

The technology is constantly changing, we're constantly having conversations with Lime.

They are very responsive.

Um, and even after this, there's gonna be things that will change in the future.

But I just wanted to point out that the city is ready for micromobility.

Um, I don't know, Zach and and Mike, do you want to go through some of the details of safety?

Yeah, thank you.

Uh Mike Amsden, Transportation Planning Manager, DPW.

Um, just to touch on a few things here, and please remind us if we're missing anything as we go through this.

Uh, first and foremost, we do observations on sidewalk riding.

Uh we've collected data over the years.

We look at people riding in the street and on the sidewalk.

Uh there is some instances where people are going on the sidewalk to park or coming off the sidewalk to grab a vehicle and go on the street, but when looking purely at people riding on street versus on the sidewalk, we typically are seeing 70 to 80 percent of the people riding on the street.

That's not saying that that's the case throughout the city.

That's from our observations, our counts.

We have video counts, we have in-person counts that we do.

We are committed to doing more.

We want to continue to evaluate, observe, do better.

70 to 80 percent, that's not perfect.

That's also pretty good when you think of traffic safety and traffic laws in general.

I d I don't think we will get to 100% ever.

I think that's you know, when thinking about transportation, there's many different ways to try and educate, enforce, use technology, etc.

We are continuing to iterate.

We're continuing to work with our operators to do better.

To touch on Lyme, they offered to be here today.

I think that was, you know, our decision that you know we we have the information, we can provide that.

They are more than willing to sit down with all of you with the committee and have conversations.

They have been a good partner over the last couple of years.

So we'll take ownership on that one.

They did offer to be here.

Um the contract itself and the technology required.

We do not require Lyme to prevent sidewalk riding.

That's a city ordinance that sidewalk riding is prohibited for scooters.

They are required to do certain things to mitigate sidewalk riding.

I think you had mentioned the the stickers, the alerts in the app, the notifications that come up, and they are doing that as required by the contract.

We have the ability to geofence, which we've we have been doing.

Geofencing is done through GPS.

It's not a perfect technology by any means.

I think your example, Alderman Chambers, is a great example of some of the challenges with geofencing, where it's you know, good.

I don't know what the latest number is, some may know, but you know, you typically hear like 30 feet.

There's some some give either way for geofencing.

So that's where some of the challenges come in.

But we do use geofencing very significantly, and from from what we've heard, we you know, we don't know if this isn't entirely accurate, but from what we've heard from our third-party data operator, because we're probably the most restrictive city in the country in terms of how much we do geofence.

So we are committed to to trying to make things better.

Um, I've been I'll stop there.

I don't know if there's anything I missed that you want to add, Zach, or if there's anything else that you want to touch on quickly.

Yeah.

Um well let's give Alder Bauman a chance for cross-examination.

I heard two points made, which are probably true.

Number one, given the utility of scooters, which the department is defending, they're basically saying personal injuries from sidewalk collisions are an acceptable loss, given the utility.

They compare it to motor vehicles, although I suspect if you look at vehicle miles injuries or deaths per vehicle miles, I think the conclusion one draws from that statistic would be significantly different.

But that's what it's and this is a classic argument, and this argument existed a hundred and twenty-five years ago when automobiles were coming on the scene, and it's a question of utility versus public safety.

And yes, are scooters useful?

Obviously, they are, people are using them, although not year-round, not all weather, but they're clearly fun and largely an amusement device in my knowledge.

Some transportation, I'll grant that.

But the question is, and this is a policy question, is continued personal injury losses, sidewalk collisions and near collisions, and interference with pedestrian activity, and creating a sense of unsafe conditions, as we've heard from many residents on Prospect Avenue, many of which are seniors, older individuals.

Uh, is that continued condition worth the utility?

Because we also heard, and this is what I can have concluded all along, that we'll never completely eliminate sidewalk riding.

That's that was basically stated.

We'll never get to 100% legal use.

So we'll never get to 100% legal use.

Uh personal injuries, including potentially severe ones, that's a matter of statistical probability.

Uh that's an acceptable loss rate given the utility.

That's a value judgment that this council has to make.

Uh I come down on the side of public safety.

Uh I think the utility is there, but limited.

Uh I'm glad to hear there's 20 miles of protected bike lanes, that's great.

34 miles under consideration or in the planning stages, that's even better.

Uh so that's progress.

And I think at such time as we make that progress, uh, then we come back full force with these programs.

I mean, I'm not gonna propose eliminating the scooter program today, which is why I proposed the speed limit, which is our next file.

Yeah, like in jump, and so given the fact that we will never achieve 100% compliance with side the sidewalk prohibition, and given the fact that we're willing to accept a certain amount of losses because of the utility, then my point is well, if you reduce the speed that these vehicles travel at everywhere in the downtown area, then you'll also reduce the speed on sidewalks, which means the degree of loss will be less.

Because getting hit with by a 200 pound individual at 15 miles an hour is likely to cause some damage to a pedestrian that's surprised and not expecting that contact versus the same individual traveling at five miles an hour.

I think the potential for injury, the potential for damage is less.

So given the fact that we cannot stop the problem, I want to mitigate the problem by reducing the degree of injury, degree of loss, by reducing the speed, which definitely makes the encounter with pedestrians less likely to put people in hospitals with broken backs and concussions and cracked skulls.

Uh that's the genesis of the next file.

Is five miles an hour is that gonna make scooters less useful?

Yeah, probably.

But again, we're balancing public safety of our pedestrians versus the utility of scooter users.

So that's that's the in a nutshell what the five mile an hour provision.

Because I I I anticipated this answer that will never be perfect.

We'll never get compliance with the law.

And that that said, then we have to go to plan B and mitigate the harm the scooters can cause while still allowing them to exist, albeit still running on sidewalks.

Okay, um Alder Chambers in the queue, followed by Alder Taylor and Alder Bergellis.

Thank you, uh Mr.

Chair.

Um a couple of questions.

Um well a thought and a question, actually.

Uh, Lee with the question first.

Who's responsible for personal injuries in a scooter actually?

Is it the operator?

And then like the person who's operating the scooter, or if it the so the city is not liable at all.

Okay.

Well we'll see about that.

That's clear.

We have indemnification provisions in the contract.

The Lyme is required to provide insurance.

Lyme is on the hook.

Yeah.

And the operator is a guest of theirs, in essence, a customer of theirs.

So I would say Lyme is absolutely on the hook in this accident.

First of all, no.

We will we'll certainly be sued.

We may have defenses, but there's no question we'd be in the loop on any litigation.

Okay.

Um the the next question that I have is and I guess this was a thought, and I spoke to you about a commissioner.

I spoke to Ottawa about it as well.

Um while we know that it's not gonna be a perfect like a hundred percent no sidewalk, but even within like that 30 feet or say, um, and this is why I wish Lyme was here.

Um, you know, far as incorporating far as the amount of time that line deem a rider on a ride, whether in whatever geofence zone there is, whether it's downtown, walkers point, Bayview, so on and so forth, um, if we can charge them because we got we have attached their credit card or their debit car on file in order to actually ride the scooter, where we can attach, like if they ride within that current ride more than like three to five minutes where they deem to be on the sidewalk where we can hit them with a fine immediately after they end a ride.

I think that will kind of control some narratives as well.

Um, because I I think we don't do enough enforcement to Ottawa's point.

Um not necessarily us at the city, I think like mine, 'cause like when I rode in DC, um, you know, when I just was just recently in DC, I pretty much wrote scooters the whole time.

Um you get a $25 fine by not locking it up on a bike rack or having your bike, you know, your lock on there.

You gotta take a picture with it actually attached to it or it don't even end your ride.

Um and also, you know, with the with the kids, um, because we do have underage, I know the scooter should be eighteen and up.

They make us take a selfie every time we made me take a selfie every time I hopped on uh a hop, a lime, uh uh uh spin or anything prior to my prior to me riding.

Um I think we really have to be more um aggressive with that enforcement, um, to ensure that you know there are I mean I wouldn't mind having a sixteen year old ride scooter.

I think they're responsible enough.

They owe enough to drive, they got enough to ride a scooter.

That's how I feel.

Um, you know, but I I think we just have to be a little bit more creative.

And and you are right.

I do think we are the most um aggressive with the enforcement fire geofencing, because uh I when I go to cities I try to find a school, and I I don't see any geofence um far as that so um but just some some takeaways uh in regards to that.

So thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

So one one one further point.

Did I hear in any of your presentation what what additional things you're going to do?

What's gonna be what new policies are gonna be put in place?

We haven't got to say business as usual.

Yeah, we're just gonna continue doing what we're doing.

Best efforts.

No, we haven't gotten there yet.

I've been I don't know, do you want to talk about the next file combined combination here?

Or you have to read it in.

Let's um let's stick to this for the moment.

We'll read we'll read it in in a moment if the questions just all come back to that issue.

Uh Alder Taylor.

Um, thank you so much, uh Mr.

Chair.

So I um I was gonna ask about the geofencing, but since my colleague said that we we are, in his opinion, most restrictive as well.

So I'll buy I'll buy that.

Um I don't like comparing um injuries on scooters to injuries in vehicles.

Um either way, I agree with Alderman Bauman that um they're both bad, right?

So we don't want to compare them and say, well, we had nine deaths, but injuries on the scooter injuries are injuries, and they can be very life-changing, um, as we've seen, right?

So um, so we don't I don't want to compare that.

I just want to look at it as it is something that needs to be regulated a little bit more than what we're doing.

Um, my main concern as I had expressed, and I just wanted to make sure um that um that we do take a look at that, and and uh uh Alderman Chambers did allude to it a little bit, is that we have a lot of um children riding scooters.

And um upon my visit, and I explained this to the commissioner um as you as well, that um when visiting children's hospital, I learned that we have quite a few injuries on scooters.

Um so we need to do a little better regulation because as he was just alluding to, a 16-year-old could ride, right?

But someone even younger than that has been riding.

Uh, and then we have um substantial injuries to to these children.

Um so we have to do a little better regulation than what we're doing.

Um, and I think that we um I think I was just listening to um Mike Amsterdam.

You just um said that you did some observation of sidewalk riding.

Um uh what do you say 70 to 80 percent of the people actually ride on the street, but everybody else is on the sidewalk.

Um, so you're right, that's that's still a lot an alarming number, right?

And we um so it still can result in potential injury.

Um so when when doing that, I would like to um if you're observing that, then you probably can observe when children are riding and not supposed to be.

And I was explaining to the commissioner that I did after I became aware of the number of children that are riding and and experiencing substantial injuries.

Um I just know a kid just recently, I think um Alder Woman uh Moore was present when one of a kid that we know personally fell and broke his hand, right?

He was too young, right?

But um, but that's still a substantial injury.

Every bone in his hand broken, right?

So now he has to go through the healing process for that.

So are we monitoring that as well?

Um because when you start monitoring, um, you have to monitor everything.

Um so just monitoring that who's writing.

Um I also asked you guys to identify locations where we have frequent related scooter incidences, so we want to pay attention to that so that we can monitor well and how we're going to address those in different areas.

Um collecting information on those injuries involving children, um, providing data on writer bands.

Um we talked about the use of credit cards, right?

You you require that, which is great, because now you really should be an adult, but children have found a way around that, right?

By purchasing those cards from Walgreens or those visa cards, wherever you can purchase them from, you know, they found a way around that.

I like the idea that Alderman Chambers said that um there was a lockup, if uh and a fine provided if it's not locked up properly, um, and the selfie taken, right?

So that is another tool that can be used to make sure that we ensure the safety of children.

Uh and then also know who's riding for sure, right?

So nobody didn't just get my credit card and go put it in there.

Now they're riding, but it looks like me because it's my credit card being used, right?

So um the counter accountability measure would be put in for adults that are riding as well.

So I think that's essential.

Uh, and just a couple more.

Um I requested um signage for those zones so people know when they're in and out of those zones, um, that it's going to um slow down.

And um uh and then just um continuing to to look at that data so that we can um continue to address these safety concerns on an ongoing basis.

Um I I am too, as I my colleagues said, disappointed that Lyme did not show up themselves, but um it it's our responsibility I think uh to keep our residents safe regardless of where they are.

I I do think it's a great choice of transportation.

Um especially I was kind of looking forward to riding one going down the Summerfest, maybe, you know, so I wouldn't have to go struggle for a parking spot.

Um so it's great, but adults can um take on that risk themselves.

Children aren't really thinking about that risk.

Uh and so we have to be mindful of that.

Because I can only imagine a small the child that I observed after learning um the injuries was so small, I was explaining to the commissioner.

I was watching him struggle just to keep his hands on the on the thing because he was so short.

So um I can imagine.

He couldn't see over the handlebars.

We couldn't see over the handlebars, right?

And I guess I can talk because I'm not much taller.

But um, but still I can imagine what injuries he could have caused on the sidewalk when he could barely handle the scooter, right?

So um, so I think that we really do need to um put some regulations in place with that, and uh I'd like to see us do that because I think it's a great program.

Um that we can really continue.

Uh I think it'll uh help as far as even even with maintenance uh in the long run of our our roadways, right?

Um so um, so yeah, if we could just kind of focus on that and and continue make it a continuous effort of looking at that safety issue is important.

All right, thank you.

Um Alder Burgells.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh so to start off, uh I just have a couple questions and we'll get into the um what's coming next later, but um I think uh Alderman Bauman when um we still don't yet have 100% sidewalk prohibition for four-wheeled vehicles in the city of Milwaukee, right?

So um I think that's a lofty goal, but I don't think we're we'll it's realistic that we'll ever get there.

But uh we have the agreement.

I found a draft copy.

Um wasn't able to get the uh the original or the original executed one.

But what's the date of the agreement?

When does it expire?

While you're looking that up, why do we only have one operator?

We had a during the test phase we had a couple, right?

So yeah, we we um the the ordinance allows us uh uh sets the city to have up to two operators.

We had two operators spin operate Lyman spin spin was operating through the initial term of the contract.

They they opted not to renew it.

They notified of that in May, also that in like April, May of this year of this year, of this year.

Yep.

Um, and so you know that's something we um you know the the kind of timing of the year didn't work well to kind of pursue if we if we want to um find another operator, um, although it's something we're gonna be evaluating this this fall, and you know, could be something that we look to fill over the winter.

I know we have one in a warehouse, two bucks away.

Yeah, we didn't they know who this is.

To our knowledge, that's not an active operator anywhere in the country though, right now.

So we'd be willing to have a discussion with that operator.

But we don't we're not aware of them actually being an operator anymore.

But yeah, we'll we'll definitely reach out.

I appreciate it.

Um so we have three ordinances that relate to sidewalks where scooters have been cited.

Um that email um with that data from Heather Huff was circulated.

Um we had one citation for sidewalk riding for a scooter in 2025.

This year we have had three in the entire city.

Um we recognize I think I think everyone recognizes that MPD doesn't have the time, money, resources, or staff to enforce sidewalk riding.

Um, but I think it's very important that we address that in the agreements that we have with these operators.

Um what when mitigation fails, when operators aren't doing enough to avoid sidewalk riding, is our only penalty, our only recourse to pull the plug on the entire contract.

Because that's what I'm I don't see anything in the contract uh that has any teeth other than pulling the plug.

Um I guess one thing I can speak to in a in it in a you know, in addition to um, or I guess you know, for individual riders, I guess.

You know, MPD, like you said, has only ticketed that many people over the last few years.

We do have a a side of enforcement through the program um that we do work with our operators on.

If people if residents report instances of sidewalk riding um to the city or to Lyme, um they're able to, by sharing the date, time, uh, and location, we're able to, you know, identify that trip based on the trip data, based on the GPS data to correlate a trip to that data.

We then find um, you know, the the Lyme will, or our operator will uh fine, issue warnings, fines, or bans to that user um kind of escalating based on um if they've been also reported um to do so.

That's uh that's a fine to the operator?

No, it's it's a fine to the user.

Um last year there was a fine that the user pays to the operator.

Correct, correct.

More.

Um how many times have has the city uh done that, or does Lyme does does this current operator provide us any information on how many users have been banned?

Yes, so uh last year we had four uh Lyme issued 4,991 fines.

Um that's that's for a variety of things.

It might not be just sidewalk riding, it might you know it might be something about parking or something like that as well.

Uh and then also issued 450 suspensions or bans uh to users.

That's for all of 2025.

For 2025, correct.

Um what is the what is the penalty from the city when mitigation from the company fails?

Um does the does the city have any monetary or other punitive measure in place in the agreement to penalize the operator if they're not doing enough?

Um I don't believe we do for sidewalk riding.

Because right now, if they're not doing enough, they get a paycheck from 4,900 people.

So to that point, they so there are a variety of fees or fines.

Uh we do get revenue for parking violations that we correct.

Um, $25 to relocate.

Correct, right?

Yep.

Um to the common on sidewalk riding, no, there's nothing right now that we find them for.

Is there anything in the agreement?

Did you find the date yet?

I think it's um sorry, I'm going back and forth.

May oh sorry.

I pulled one from the file.

I will pull that.

It's there's 24.

Is there anything in is there anything in the agreement that uh allows the city to find the operator if they don't perform and they don't mitigate well enough?

There's no monetary dialogue in there.

In the current contract.

Correct.

Right.

Um does the contract address um so there's no provision in the contract for sidewalk riding, or no penalty that the city uh assigns the company.

Correct.

There's requirements that they need to meet to mitigate sidewalk riding around awareness and education, and that's what's in the contract.

But if they don't correct, or if their mitigation efforts are not effective enough, what's the penalty?

Let me pull that for you.

I know there's no monetary value on it.

Right.

From when I read the contract uh it the only recourse the city has is to pull the plug on the entire program.

Correct.

Which some may argue uh would be appropriate.

Uh others may think that something uh to get the attention of the company to take uh safety and sidewalk riding in the city of Milwaukee uh is serious enough to do something more, do something that's effective, would be worthwhile.

Their shareholders now will require the company to mitigate risks and and minimize costs.

And if right now they're getting revenue for people operating the scooters incorrectly.

That's that's going into the wrong pocket.

Does the contract address the age of the user?

Minimum age?

So the the city doesn't set a specific limit on age of the user, but we we allow operators to set their own, and Lyme has a sets uh an age limit of 18 years.

Eighteen.

18, yeah.

Okay.

Um then um we have the the contract was executed in 2024.

May 15th, 2024.

It expires.

This year.

Yeah, we well, it was the the two-year term.

There's a the the um the permanent program was set up in a way where the the initial term is a two-year initial term with options for uh renewals uh up to five years.

So our current term runs through um the end uh through 2027.

And who whose discretion um is it to renew or extend?

Is it solely the commissioners or does it have to come back to the committee or right now?

Right now it's the commissioner public works.

If the operator is within the standing of what we have within the contract, means that's the number of scooters out there and the distribution, et cetera.

And the contract doesn't specify what m happens if mitigation fails.

Mitigation mitigation for sidewalk riding or operator safety or specific to sidewalk riding don't.

We have so we do have several fines related to other requirements in the contract, and that's what we have been monitoring to see if they've been in compliance.

We have various compliance requirements that we do monitor on a monthly basis.

Okay, thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh we'll go to Aldermore in a second.

I just want to follow up on a couple super quick things.

Um is I should note uh I get complaints regarding people riding scooters in inappropriate ways or inappropriate ages and things like that.

Uh Mr.

Roder's been exceedingly helpful when I've made referrals to him and Lyme themselves uh have been responsive as well.

So just uh for Al Germanic offices, that's maybe something don't want to advertise, but uh I found him exceedingly helpful, as I said.

Um with respect to requiring Lyme to do this or that, um the education piece I understand.

Um we might question its effectiveness as Alder Bauman did earlier.

Uh odd implies can, must implies can.

Um, if the technology isn't there for geofencing, is there really any muscle other than um cancellation of the contract?

Which in this case, since we only have one provider would be cancellation of the program.

Given the technological limitations on geofencing, is it realistic to expect that short of canceling the contract?

Um that you could hold the company legally responsible for a technology that doesn't exist.

I think that's a great question and something we've struggled with a little bit, and I think we'd love to continue that conversation to see what's possible and what makes the most sense.

Okay.

So again, those quick questions, but uh Alder Morse, sorry.

No, Peter had uh raised the same thing.

Uh the the the location um of the incident a couple weeks ago with uh Dave Wolves.

Um is that is uh MLK drive um a five mile an hour zone?

No, not entirely.

So that zone prior to the event um is part of the city's uh code red area.

So in in partnership with MPD, um we established like a schedule of policies for different times of the year and different times of the day and week.

So um in that area on like weekend evenings in the summertime is a no-ride zone entirely.

Um it's part of that broader entertainment district that's part of the code red um policies.

We have that specific area right after the incident.

Um we had a 10 mile per hour zone around Pfizer Forum.

That's twenty that was 24-7 forum in the plaza area.

We extended that out to MLK drive between uh Juneau and state in that area.

And then something that we've implemented elsewhere um and we did in this in this case too was to design um using our it takes a little bit of time to design and to test, but we um designed in our GIS systems a like a zone targeted to the sidewalk in that area um that's a five mile per hour zone.

Um, and you know, we're able to get that in implemented within 24 hours.

Uh Lyme was able to go out and test it and make sure it was functioning uh properly as well.

So it's a 10 mile per hour zone in that broader area.

Is there any correlation between a permitted uh parklet or sidewalk dining for restaurants and a no operation zone?

Or is that something that the department's considering?

So there's parking restrictions around parklets.

I think to where you may be going, I think the tin drive example of a parklet is a extreme partlet, right?

Like it's a really nice big large area.

So I think that's where we're starting to think of like where does that type of geo fencing make the most sense?

So currently, no, that hasn't been.

But I think historically we've been thinking of partlets primarily around like the one or two parking spot type partlets.

But I think the tin drive example is a much more parklit and sidewalk drive, right?

Um you barely have room for a wheelchair to get through that sidewalk.

Yeah, right.

But okay, thank you.

Sorry for the on that point.

There's a letter in the file from the program manager of Milwaukee Walks saying that given the extensive outdoor dining in front of a restaurant, the bike lane there was essentially erased.

There's construction that so in those areas to Alderberg Ellis' point, we should look very carefully.

Construction outdoor dining parklets and all that can make it so the scooter has nowhere to go, and then we might have somebody making a decision that can put somebody else in danger.

So anyway, apologies, Alder Moore.

No.

Thank you so much.

Um, Mr.

Chair.

Um, first, let me definitely um, you know, give my heartfelt, you know, just um thoughts and prayers of healing for um the gentleman that that was hit, it was it was hor horrific what happened.

Um I appreciate us having this conversation because I think it's important uh that we, you know, move to a place of not becoming so reactionary, but looking at ways that we can be proactive and sometimes having these conversations allow us to do that.

Uh and I would add to my colleagues that this is something that um I would look to hold just so that we can get the appropriate information, get some input um from you know, business owners and um individuals that you know ride scooters, that sort of thing, so that we can make informed decisions.

I think we respond and react too quickly when incidents happen as they will.

Um, but I think we need to do a better job as a governing body on how we respond um to incidents that we need to legislate.

So there's a few questions that I um that I have and um going back to the observations uh when you were observing um scooters that may have been on the sidewalk.

Can you talk about what area was this specifically on the downtown area?

Was this different spaces?

Talk a little bit about that so that we have a context.

Yeah, um yeah, good question.

So we we have um, you know, our our approach, you know, each year is a a little bit different in terms of which specific spots we're looking at, but we do look at um we do studies in person and um via camera um throughout the city.

There the goal is to get a rep kind of a representative sample around the city on on primarily we we you know we do them on on larger on on main streets, not so much on like residential streets, uh, but we're doing studies throughout the city um for for to observe but both bikes and and sidewalk, sorry, and scooters.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Um and I want to say too, I've ridden scooters um several times, um, and I have ridden scooters on the sidewalk.

I, you know, it was not until recently that I didn't realize that you necessarily couldn't ride on the sidewalk, but I, you know, I'm usually riding on sidewalk in a you know just really densely populated areas because um for me it was just safety.

Uh you know, we we you know we're still working on um bike infrastructure, um, but to sort of get from point A to point B, uh and a lot of times I was, you know, using it to get from point A to point B.

Um, it was, you know, I was really concerned for my own um my own safety.

Um with that, uh, what when we talk about enforcement, are we talking about MPD, say somebody on the sidewalk, they throw on their flashing lights, they're you know, roll like I want to get an understanding of what enforcement if we move to this, because you know uh going back to I mean, when we talk about a hundred percent effectiveness, um, I don't know what ordinance that we have that's ever 100% effective.

That's not even realistic, you know.

You know, um do we want compliance?

Absolutely, but you know, scoffing at like, oh, it's not 100% effective.

Nothing.

Somebody tell me if we ever have anything that's 100% effective, I would like to know that.

Just throwing that out there.

But enforcement.

Can you talk to me a little bit about this is the this would be then the expectation of MPD to um to write these citations or to find these people?

What what are what does that mean?

What are we talking about with enforcement?

I mean, the way it's kind of written now, we're talking about sidewalk riding, yes, it's a moving violation.

Um, and obviously that's a hindrance to you know MPD itself.

Um we don't have a DPW scooter enforcement team besides the ones that we see from GPS, if the if if scooters are parked in properly or certain things that we have within the contract.

So I mean, if we want to come extremely punitive and just attack scooter riders on sidewalk, that would roll in the hands of the department uh of the police department.

And it's currently I think it's written into the ordinance with bicycle riding, that same ordinance of bikes and scooters are applied the same in the ordinance in terms of sidewalk riding.

Um got it, and and I just wanted to confirm.

So if there was a citation given, the the the cite the the funds will go to the city of Milwaukee or who is that yeah, could confirm for me.

Correct, yeah.

If it's written by MPD MPD, then those would go to the city of Milwaukee, correct?

Okay, now when we talk about, so use an example of the lakefront, for example, right?

Um when I think about streets, and you know, um, I mostly when I'm at the lake front, I walk I ride my scooter on the pathway um or the sidewalk because it is the safest, you know, sort of again.

I'm I'm riding when there's not it's not um, you know, it's not summer fest time and it's congested, right?

Um how does that how does that work?

Because that that with this policy, we would not allow the pathways you you know, I'm thinking about the lake, right?

Like, is that considered a sidewalk?

Is like so the lakefront is interesting.

So the lakefront is considered a park.

And so when when you start using that, I mean it's payment within a park if you want to go in legal terms.

Sure.

What we have done at the lakefront is interesting because we've known we work with MPD on many different areas.

This is Brady Street, this is downtown a central business district, this has been the lakefront.

So we have done at least down to lakefront, there's two sides of the roadway.

So anything on the east side, we have geofence, you cannot ride scooters there just to keep it.

So we hold up.

That's that true.

No, not correct.

Okay, sorry.

Scooters are allowed on trails.

Uh, just like bicycles, there are a lot on trails.

We do have uh because of the density of people walking, you know, walking and using that that lakefront trail, we have a 10 mile per hour um speed low speed zone.

And that's something we've you know, um, yeah, that we we've implemented historically along there.

Perfect, okay.

And I think there's some, you know, confusion around if you're specific to the life front east of Lincoln Memorial Drive.

I think a lot of people assume that's a sidewalk, a lot of people assume it's a trail, so there's confusion there, right?

Is it a trail?

It's a trail, so people can ride there, so that's where some of the confusion lines, too.

Yeah, you know.

Um, thank you.

And then um, when Alderman Chambers talked about some of the things and other jurisdictions, is that something that we could implement here?

Um, you know, when he mentioned like the selfie or you got you know what I mean?

There's some safeguards that were put in place um, you know, for ridership.

Is that something that's pu feasible for here?

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And I've been, you know, hearing about the the children riding being such a concern.

I think we'd love to have those conversations.

That's an option we could consider.

Um, absolutely.

And if you all lastly, if you all can talk just a little bit about the dining parklets, right?

I think that's what we call them.

Um, there's sidewalk dining and there's parklets.

So parklets are within the parking line and sidewalk dining is within the sidewalk.

So two different programs are the same purpose.

Okay, not side, the one that's in the street.

Yeah, those are parklets, yes.

Parklets.

Okay.

Um, how would you suggest for a scooter ride?

Because again, for some of them, it right, it cars definitely still have to go slow.

Um, what would be the suggestion, you know, for that that people still ride in the street?

Yeah.

Um, so this is or maybe it's a no-zone area, I don't know.

Yeah.

Go ahead.

Um, so so that you know, this this portion of MLK is a bit of a unique spot.

Most parklets in the city do not actually extend into the bike lane or the travel lane.

These ones are extra wide, and so they do the bike lane does go away there, and the travel lane does shift a bit, I think as well.

So this one is this one is is unique in how how wide the um parklet is in this spot.

Most of them has no really impact on bike riders or scooter riders because the bike, you know, if there is a bike lane on painted bike lane on the street, it still continues and it stays the park is typically just within that parking space.

Got it.

Okay.

Um Mr.

Chair, I have no questions, no further questions at this time.

Okay.

Um Alder Bauman, would you want to bring us to conclusions?

So get on.

So we have extended this contract for Lyme to 2027?

Correct.

And that was done with that's that's news to me.

I bet that's news of this committee and everybody else in the world, probably other than Lyme.

I mean, was there was there some memo that was circulated?

Was there some indication that that was happening?

I mean, because I wanted to have a further discussion about reopening this whole process.

I don't know that we want to deal with Lyme anymore, to be honest with you.

A 1.6 billion dollar company, a monopoly that's actually making money off of violators.

I mean, they have an incentive to encourage sidewalk riding, and then they catch them and they find them, and then that's more revenue to their bottom line.

It's almost it's almost ludicrous, actually, that we're incentivizing them to permit sidewalk riding and other violations because they make the money, not us.

Won't you think that's rather odd and frankly rather absurd?

Yeah, I don't know.

So I think the term of the contract that we have was a two-year contract with built-in basically re-ups.

Yeah, but you have the power to amend this at will.

True.

So that was not that where we weren't, we weren't obligated to accept their option to renew.

This wasn't like a lease agreement where they have the legal right to renew the contract.

We we allowed that to happen.

So based on the terms and the metrics that we had, they were meeting those requirements.

They have been a good partner based on the education event requirements that we have.

They've been gone above and beyond in terms of being out in the community, working with alders, working at events in the community, educating folks, handing out information.

So based on the contract, commissioner has authority to renew.

So but we have the ultimate authority to direct the commissioner to terminate and renegotiate this contract, correct?

That's correct.

And we may do exactly that.

Now that we know this was just extended unilaterally without any discussion, you say they meet the matrix.

I don't think so.

And they have this perverse incentive that they actually make more money if people violate our ordinances almost craziness.

But that's just me.

Mr.

Chair, Alder Moore on this point.

On this one, just really quick, uh, a couple things.

Um, I need you to expound a little bit about you know um two things, um, giving back, like what are give some really concrete examples um on what Lyme does to give back to community, and the second thing is what is the percentage because we also get a percentage that comes back to the city for every ridership.

I get those reports every month.

Um please talk about what the city also get financially from this organization, company.

Yeah, so to speak to the first part, yes.

Um the um the the outreach that Lyme does is pretty significant.

Um we in our in our terms the the program that's something that we wanted to build into the program is that to have um our operators be active members of the community as well and be continuing to like you know, advancing the education side of things too.

So we require um operators to conduct at least, you know, one kind of safety community outreach event every month from April through October.

Lyme has far exceeded that they've conducted 43 events um and participated at community events like the U3 Source Fair at the Baird Center this spring.

Um they provided a bunch of helmets to uh it was a large number of helmets to to uh a bike giveaway in in all the women.

Taylor's district.

And you know, there's a so there's a variety of existing community events they they attend um and and kind of um you know I know that they're they're at you know they're a sponsor of Chill on the Hill and they you know they're there every year as well.

So that you know there's a bunch of different community events throughout the city um that they conduct each year.

Um and then could you remind me of the second part of your question?

The second one was just as far as um what portion does the city.

Sure.

I would also say in terms of like what they're doing for the community.

Do you want to talk a little bit, Zach, about the the access passes and the usage there?

Yeah, yeah, good point.

Yeah, and so that's that's I think something that's been a really strong component of this program too.

Is we have um over 900 Lime has been actively rec um actively promoting their access patch pass, which is a reduced rate uh for low-income qualified residents.

Um they have like I think it's nine hundred and forty residents, the last I saw last month that were actively enrolled in the program.

Um that's you know, thousands of of uh of rides.

I think it was like over fifteen thousand rides, I think last year on the access pass.

I'd have to double check the numbers on that.

Um and also, you know, thousands of dollars saved by those residents who um have that discount.

We also have a discounted um uh like there's we have kind of um you know equity priority areas where we have automatic discounts on trips as well.

That's been a really you know successful part of the program that has really driven you know um has been a a big strength of of ridership in in parts of the city where we have a higher proportion of low-income residents as well.

Um so yeah, the access pass program, though, is something that they go um they go above and beyond um exceeding the you know, kind of the we don't have a set number of of residents that they you know need to get in those programs necessarily.

Um but it's kind of an incentive based as they you know if they're trying to add a add some more scooters to their fleet, um they've well exceeded um the numbers to meet those requirements.

And then in terms of the fees that we collect, we get a 25 cent per trip fee and then a is it a 100, 100 per vehicle license fee per year, and then there are various fines related to uh parking compliance that is corrected by us, uh fleet distribution, fleet number, things like that, ensuring they're meeting the distribution throughout the city that we have.

Do you have a total, Mike, of what we what did we collect in 2025?

Um in 2025 I think it was seven, roughly seven hundred and twenty-eight thousand dollars.

Okay.

And then are we looking to uh are are we on track for that same amount or more this year?

Yes.

Yes, and I yeah, um like so far this year we've uh this is you know we invoice them monthly.

Um so this is dating back to the end of May.

Not that I we haven't in set that invoice for this month.

Yeah, those three hundred and ninety-one thousand dollars um to date this year.

So just like trips are up twenty-six percent percent okay.

And those dollars go into the transportation fund transportation fund.

Okay.

Um thank you for that, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

And as we know from the budget, transportation fund has had some health issues lately, so if the program were canceled, there'd be three-quarters of a million gone from it.

Okay.

Yep.

Thanks.

Umbers.

Actually, we just places uh, I think we just hold it to the call of the chair.

Okay.

I agree.

Sounds good.

Alder Chambers moved that this item be held to the call of the chair.

Thanks for the robust discussion and hearing no objections so ordered.

Moving on now to the companion files.

Following up on that communication.

Um first with respect to penalties, uh item 12 is file number 260 349 and ordinance relating to penalties for operating electric scooters on public sidewalks.

Alderman Bauman.

Yeah, so I think we've I've already explained my reaction.

Well, th this is the penalty provision, which is an ordinance amendment.

Uh right now the fine is 10 to 20 dollars, which is almost laughable.

I'm not even sure it's worth the paper to write a citation for $10.

Uh this my file in increases that to uh from 100 to 200 dollars.

Uh and of course it's all contingent on enforcement, and if there's no enforcement, you can make the fine fifty thousand dollars.

It's all academic if nobody's actually issuing citation, which is a whole other question.

I understand there's some substitutes floating around out there, so I'll let uh the substitutes fly and see where we go.

I think this needs to be changed somewhat, and the question is how much?

Okay.

Yeah, we have a couple of subs that are uh floating out there with that we'll go to in a second.

Do you have anything to say though the department?

Any opposition to the raising of the fines for um violators?

No.

Uh one question.

I was trying to pull it up here quickly.

Is that specific to the ordinance chapter 102 that's tied to bicycles?

I can't recall exactly how it's worded.

I assume so, yes.

Okay.

So I think that's something to note.

I don't assume so, yes.

Okay, so we don't issue these citations.

But I just wanted to I just wanted to say that for the committee.

Can we authorize our parking checkers to enforce these requirements?

No, I mean the parking checkers are nine-moving violations under uh 349 139.

So I did look into that.

So, uh, okay.

We looked into scooter stop sticks.

All right.

Um, okay.

Uh Alder Brigals, you had a sub.

Thank you, uh Mr.

Chair.

I'll move um my proposed substitute for item two six zero three four nine.

Um modifying and um certainly had conversations with Alderman Bauman about this um uh because it uh I'm a scooter user.

Uh scooters, although um are used less frequently in the 11th Aldermanic district, uh they're still around and uh they're left on the sidewalks, and uh we get a few calls uh for them blocking driveways and whatnot, and the department's always been very responsive to do that.

But I think that uh the penalties and we've seen from enforcement from MPD with the three citations this year is I want to say laughable, but I don't want to laugh about it because it's it's tragic that enforcement isn't more robust.

Um, and a ten-dollar fine isn't going to move the needle uh on behavior, but I do think a hundred dollar fine will.

Uh so I I support um uh Alderman Bauman's efforts to modify that, but I do think that there has to be a higher ceiling on that fine because when someone intentionally drives down a uh a sidewalk at at maximum speed, intentionally aiming for pedestrians that's worth more than a couple hundred dollars.

That individual has been charged with a felony and um or multiple and uh will face justice, but in the meantime, um I think the city has an obligation to do more.

Uh so my proposed substitute changes Alderman Bauman's 100 to 200 range to a range of and this is for the rider of the scooter from 100 to 1,000.

Um but this also my substitute also uh adds a compliance requirement for the scooter operator for the company, and assigns a monetary penalty, not less than 100, not more than $10,000 for each violation.

So this is much more comprehensive.

This uh can be modified in a future amendment or a future contract, uh, but so this uh uh this substitute increases the penalty for an for a scooter user to 100 to 1,000 dollars, and then adds a penalty, a monetary penalty for the company between 100 and 10,000.

And it this has been uh submitted to the city attorney's office for review.

Okay, and uh members reading along the compliance required would be that every operator of a doclass electric scooter program shall comply with all requirements established by the commissioner of public works under any agreement with the city, including requirements relating to geofencing, speed restrictions, no ride zones, slow speed zones, rider notification, data reporting, and other operational controls.

So I guess it would be within your ambit.

Commissioner, we're not dictating what those agreements would be.

Merely that you would um establish them.

Right, and there are there are other operational controls that other cities use, like having an audible uh tone, so that pedestrians would have some awareness of someone uh scooting up behind them.

Uh there is, and as technology changes, there will likely be other uh opportunities in the future.

So, Commissioner, have you had a chance to review this sub?

Do you have um any concerns?

No, I mean we have looked at the substitute, and right now we'll just wait for a city attorney's opinion on it as it's been already submitted to their office as well to make sure there's nothing that's gonna violate.

Who will enforce this?

So, Chair.

Yeah, go ahead.

So basically, if there's any violation related to the contract that would come from the Department of Public Works, when it comes into the rider usage, that would not be, that would actually have to go into the the police department.

Yep.

So there's two changes.

One would be raising the ceiling for an operator who's violating, and one would be uh uh forfeiture that would apply to the company.

Mr.

Chair.

Sorry, operator, person operating the scooter, the rider.

Should have said rider instead of the uh operator.

Sorry, Alder Moore.

No, I'm trying to get that clarification.

Um so if you can just help me out a little bit so I get that okay, you know you're looking to um Alderman McGallis is looking to increase the fines, right?

Um, and then um because of what the operator does, the I think I'm saying that right, the person that's riding.

I'm sorry, the person.

The individual that's riding the scooter will get fined, right?

That's that's the a hundred to a thousand dollars.

Am I currently?

So the state of play is currently the rider of the vehicle can find ten to twenty.

Alderman Bauman's uh ordinance would raise that from a hundred to two hundred.

Alderman Bergels' sub would take it from one hundred to a thousand, so it would raise the ceiling.

Got it, perfect.

And then the second part of something up.

No, no, we just okay.

And then the second part of that is the forfeiture.

This is something then the operator, the operator company.

Company, yep, would then like how would that be determined?

So when you say um a hundred between ten thousand, this would be based on what the rider have done.

Like, somebody explain that to me.

Yeah, so this would give uh the department the ability to assess a monetary penalty to the company.

Um based on noncompliance of the agreement.

Because right now the only noncompliance mechanism the department has is to pull the contract and pull the plug out.

Uh so if there is a violation of the agreement, there is no monitor there's no monetary penalty for uh not mitigating unsafe operation.

So there are penalty, there are penalties for leaving a scooter in the river.

There are penalties for leaving a scooter uh on the sidewalk, uh if the city has to relocate it.

Okay.

Um, but there is no penalty in the current contract that uh that uh signs there's no penalty in the current contract uh should the company not mitigate hazardous operation.

If if the penal if the company uh does not use their technology to preserve the safe operation of their equipment on our city streets, right now we have no ability to um uh for a monetary uh fine or forfeiture from the company.

Got it.

Got it.

That's that's the big change uh in this substitute.

Thank you.

I would like to make one comment just related to the 100 to 1000 um towards the individual riding.

I just want to make sure that we're we're not making scooters and bikes and bikes.

It applies both more restricted than we are in automobiles.

So whatever we have in citations related to vehicles, I don't want to be more punitive to micromobility than we are to cars that are actually out there killing people.

I just just to be clear.

So I mean I I I don't have an issue increasing.

I just I would like to compare what it looks like to vehicles versus micromobility.

Wait, Mike, did you have anything with the forfeiture piece or no I've yeah, I think the point one there describes it a little I think it's it's adding to it.

This keeps this keeps the penalty for bicycles to ten to twenty dollars and changes the penalty for scooters from a hundred to it does, you're right.

Thank you.

Yeah, you did specify the okay.

Okay, I didn't read that part.

Thank you.

Um I guess one question is the higher you raise the fine, is I mean, MPDs already not writing these tickets.

Are they gonna write a thousand dollar ticket?

Is Muni Court going to laugh it out of court?

Um that's one concern.

Sometimes, you know, with my predecessor the littering fine, we raised the five hundred dollars.

Look how strong we are.

But um, was that effective in you know, or are the police writing fewer littering tickets because now it's five hundred bucks that you're so it's just unintended consequences.

I guess we can think about not advocating one way or another, just something to keep in mind.

Is will the police who are not writing these tickets be more inclined to write them?

If the ceiling is raised, are they really gonna write a ticket that expensive and is Muni Court gonna do anything with it as opposed to nothing?

Yeah, um, so that's one.

And Mr.

Chair, Aldermore.

I'm sorry, and and just with because again, um I look at a scooter very similar to a bike.

Yeah, um, and so we now have e-bikes, and so and I don't even know what the um the mouse per hour, our e-bikes go.

The bubbler bike share e-bikes are class one e-bytes that are capped at 15 miles per hour.

So very much the same.

Um, and and so we can differentiate with within this particular ordinance.

We can say, well, yeah, scooters are this, but we're gonna leave the bikes alone.

Like, we're able to do that in this particular ordinance.

What you're proposing, Alderman Brigalis?

Correct.

So the the change in penalties in 102 13 would apply only to electric scooters.

Got it.

And I would propose that we hold this as well just to get some more information from the city attorney because um I would love to know what their thoughts legally um are on this before I even make any decisions.

Thank you.

Can I uh and I would still say the point, and thank you for clarifying this just to electric scooters, that's helpful, but I would still say the point still stands we'd want to also see how that compares to other traffic violations just to make sure that we're you know not penalizing a use that we want to encourage over motor vehicle fines that may be less, and I don't know if they are, but we should shut that.

And I guess one other question is do you know um from your experience whether this kind of penalty provision for the company is present in their contracts with other cities?

Would this make it harder to secure um an operator because suddenly they're subjected to I mean you might not have an answer because that's just a uh no, I don't think we we don't know that right now.

We can look into it for sure.

Okay, and and my understanding is if the city well, this is I guess to the sponsor.

If the city attorney says hey, uh not sure about the penalty applied to the company, we want more time to review it, then the file as not amended, um, which might not raise those concerns now.

If there are concerns from the city attorney's office, they might hold it at council.

I finally on that point, yeah.

I think the preferred course for the operator accountability is to renegotiate the contract and provide those provisions within the four corners of the contract with Lyme or anyone else that we bring in to provide this service.

That's a stronger tool that the department can exercise at will pursuant to the contract, where this talks about a actual forfeiture.

I don't know, does the police have to come in and issue a ticket to lack?

That's that would seem cumbersome versus doing it through the mechanism of the contract itself, uh and create and create this perverse incentive that Lyme makes money off of sidewalk writing, because they find people and they collect the revenue versus our fining them for in the for evidence of sidewalk riding.

If they're suddenly paying a thousand dollars an incident, uh this may get the attention of a one point six billion dollar company.

I mean, possibly as well.

Okay, Mr.

Chair, propose a hold.

Um okay, so what are we proposing to?

So there's a sub before us.

Oh, yeah, I forgot all these subscribers.

So the sponsor would possibly redraw the sub and just hold it, he can bring it back.

Yeah, that's always an option.

One more one more time.

I didn't, I didn't hear that.

Just we'll draw this up and just bring it back when we come, we'll bring it back and just hold this file.

Okay, we'll, if I may, Mr.

Chair.

I think we we will introduce a file at next council meeting directly to the department to terminate the current contract, which was extended without anybody's knowledge, and to renegotiate the contract to touch upon some specific provisions that hold the operator accountable for noncompliance by their customers from whom they're making money.

Mr.

Chair.

Aldermore.

Um I just want to say that if this incident didn't happen, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Right.

Like this I would call this an anomaly because based on the data, we don't have scooters injuring or killing people.

Most of the time, scooter, you know, the the rider is typically the person, you know, that's injured, you know, during a scooter incident, right?

Um so I I want us to be thoughtful.

Um, you know, I'm not sure why the uh extension usually extensions come before us and uh um in uh finance committee.

Um whenever anybody's extending a contract, I thought that was across the board.

It's a new if a new contract comes to that's different.

So this is an extension of existing contracts.

Yeah, right now um I thought we did have that.

It's written in yeah, we get written in two one year extensions.

So it's already codified that, you know, you all get, so I'm not sure why like that that's already a policy in place.

So if we want to do something different, then we have to change the policy, not blame them for doing their job or you know what I mean.

So so we wouldn't that it's on us then to change the change the policy.

Um, but again, I just want us to be meaningful about because I love that our city is looking at micromobility.

There should absolutely be other options than driving a vehicle.

Um we have a hop that rides around downtown.

Like, you know, I I wish it was that I wish we had other options, you know, with you know, sort of rail, um, but but we have these other options that are on the table that I love, and I want us to build a city, you know, that creates safety, whether even whether you're in a car, whether you're walking, biking, scooting, you name it.

I want everyone to be safe, and I think it's up to us to figure out what those you know, how do we increase safety?

What do those parameters you know look like, but I don't think you know terminating the a contractor that is willing to work with us and has from what I know from the information, and thank you all so much for coming and talking to myself as well as our um interns.

Um, but I think that we're at a pivotal moment where we can have an opportunity to have a conversation to figure out public how do we um increase public safety so that um everyone is safe because my thing is not around line, my thing around around cars and around vehicles, you know, in this city.

So I I would recommend that we just we just hold it.

Yeah, I just quickly say I thank you, and I I think these are the discussions we want to be having, and I think we've had some really positive discussions already.

Um I would say that there's a lot we can be doing more, both to do a better job on the contract, but just to make the program better, make micromobility better.

Yes, and that's why you know Zach's done a hell of a job.

This is not Zach's job, right?

Like he's doing a lot of things, so he's doing a hell of a job.

We we are we so that's why this transportation mobility coordinator position is so important to us because we want to be doing all the things you're doing or you're suggesting, and we want to have those conversations.

So thank you.

I this has been a really helpful conversation, Mr.

Chair.

If I may just go on that point real quick, yes, I'll do chambers.

I just talked to Data.

I just want to stretch um, um, we need to be more proactive to your point.

Yeah, we have to be more.

And I know y'all reach out to us in regards to this, but coming into the I didn't know Jack Squad about what line does in the community.

No, I'm just gonna be honest with you.

I didn't know they give out helmets helmets and the access pests and and everything of that nature.

So I think what we need to do is probably have a and I'll probably introduce her myself and Ottoman Bauman would probably have them do like a biannual update and have them come up with public works to like give us an update on what they're doing because we don't know what they do.

So we do have an annual report related to this already that exists.

So we can share 2025 and we connect with that.

So we'll have that.

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay, I'll leave that beat.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um, yeah, I will say let's I will say let's let's hold this one.

Um, I think auto woman more made a motion, Mr.

Chair.

Um I think the sponsor of of the substitute need to make an action.

Oh yeah.

Okay.

Alderman Burgels has been pleaded with by multiple members to withdraw the sub so that we can proceed with the uncontroversial part.

Is Alderman Bergell's wish to?

Thank you.

Thank you for that courtesy.

The subs been withdrawn.

We're back to the original um ordinance.

Um Alder Chambers, did you have something as well?

Automan.

Uh that was no worries.

No, all right.

Then we're on the uh ordinance as presented by Alder Bauman.

Um, is there any further discussion regarding the penalties?

If not, I'll move to hold it so that we can get a city attorney's opinion.

On the penalties, yep.

Wait, which one number thirty?

Wow.

Okay.

This is it is got it.

So, I think the motion is to hold the unamended Bauman file.

Got it, okay.

Okay.

I mean, is there is there I don't know if there's an expectation we could hear from the city attorney before council day.

No.

Do you want it held, Alderman Bauman?

Well, I think we've got I think this is of like a no-brainer, frankly.

We're just modifying a number.

The opinion would be on Ottoman Bergellis' sub.

Okay, well that's good.

So, so what can happen though is the sub can be offered on the floor.

So we can pass whatever we have now the original version.

The sub can be offered on the floor, and that would be appropriate if the city attorney has weighed in in the meantime.

If not, then it wouldn't be a they got a week and a half, yeah.

So, move approval.

So is it a so is it reasonable to expect the city attorney to have an answer back by council day?

I have no idea.

He's not here.

He hasn't said anything.

We could always hold the file in council if there's some confusion over.

Yep.

All right, let's let's get going.

Do you care to withdraw the motion to hold, or will you want to have them vote on that?

Uh we can vote on the approval.

Okay.

Alder Chambers has moved approval uh passage of the ordinance.

Uh we can do all sorts of stuff before council.

But uh is there any objection to the ordinance?

Yeah, okay.

The recommendation for passage.

Hearing none, so ordered.

Thank you.

Uh moving on to item 13, file number 260 365 substitute resolution relating to the establishment of five mile per hour maximum operating speed within zone one of the dockless scooter program in the fourth aldermanic district.

Alderman Bauman.

Um if you could clarify what this does and doesn't do.

Yeah, this is basically uh we've talked about this previously today, and this basically just affects the downtown portion of the fourth aldermanic district.

This does not uh impact any other aldermanic district, although some other aldermanic districts are touched by zone one, it would not include those areas uh again the theory behind this and we've it's been acknowledged we'll never get to a hundred percent compliance regarding sidewalk writing.

I I under I basically agree with that premise.

Uh therefore, in order to mitigate the damage, sidewalk writing can produce, limiting the speed will go a long way toward reducing that potential damage.

Now they already had claimed they have different zones with 10 miles, five mile.

That seems to be a very complicated patchwork of enforcement.

Nobody I don't know if there's a map that shows this.

Uh I don't know if it's on the website, but that seems to be very complicated to implement from a technical standpoint versus just creating one big geographic area that is uniformly five miles an hour.

That would seem to be the simplest technical fix or mitigation to the sidewalk riding problem versus this block is five, that block is 10.

You cross the street, you're back to 15.

That seems to be very complicated and ripe for potential safety issues.

Okay.

So the file is not proposing a five mile an hour speed limit throughout the city.

Correct.

It's restricted to zone one, and I think the first resolved clause says that DPW shall identify and create one or more geofence slowed speed areas within the portion of zone one.

Okay.

Yeah, I so I do want to be very clear here.

We we are open to creating slow zones anywhere in the city, including downtown.

Um we're not looking to restrict the entire downtown.

There are transportation options to access businesses and establishments that are downtown.

Um we do want to work with Alders to where high pedestrian areas are uh what we're doing.

We've talked about MLK.

We've internally we've talked about over by the the third street marker hall, we have slow zones that sit in the third ward.

And so we'd rather look at these areas that are really big pedestrian-heavy zones instead of just a blanket over the entire central business district.

So we do want a portion of this, and we don't disagree, but to do a blanket of five miles an hour in downtown does not offer a full transportation option for our citizens.

Well, 10 work, Mr.

Chair.

Uh Alder Morris.

Um question.

Um actually one of the legislative assistants pulled up the Lyme app yesterday and clicked on and we have five mile per hour zones.

Um can you confirm confirm that?

And again, it had all these areas where you can only you know this is the mileage or whatever.

Um so currently, do we have five mile per hour zones?

Yeah, yes, and so so much.

I mean, much like cars, there's you know, speed limits, different speed limits on different streets, um, the way that's set for scooters is we have we have um what we call slow zones.

There are zones where we can um, you know, the the maximum speed of all s of all dockless scooters in Milwaukee is 15 miles per hour.

Yep.

Um that's the s the point at which that motor assist stops.

That's the most it can boost you to.

Um then we have um we we have historically use 10 mile per hour zones as our primary slow zone uh for for larger areas, and then when we're able to kind of um that we have uh areas where we're able to test um design them in in GIS and target them to specific locations, for example, uh on and on MLK on targeted to those sidewalks, and then around the public market targeted to that kind of block right there.

Um we do have uh five mile per hour zones in those spots.

So, Zach, how does that work?

So if I'm moving from one zone to another, does the scooter automatically slow down?

Correct.

The the um acceleration will stop until you're below that level.

So it's not like an abrupt like you hit it and you all of a sudden are like breaked down to that speed, it'll stop accelerating.

Um, and this the scooter will alert you audibly um with a little with a little tone when it enters a when it enters a slow slow speed zone, and you get the users can see it in the app as well.

Uh we also have our open data portal has um, you know, we we have like publicly viewable links to the zones as well.

Yep.

Awesome.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

So is the department opposed to this or not?

I think the way it's written is okay on identifying areas because it doesn't, I mean it's all around balance.

He says the whole entire downtown district, but it doesn't state it in there.

So we're not we're okay with the way it's worded.

We would just like to work with the Alder on focusing on those high pedestrian areas instead of just a blanket over the entire downtown.

So the way it's worded is fine because it doesn't say downtown, but I still would like to work with the Alders' office to identify those pedestrian areas.

Mr.

Chair?

Uh Alder Bergells is actually in the queue, so um, I just had a quick question.

Yeah, for you, just uh um are we allowed to have any public testimony for this um item?

I'm just gonna be allowed to, it hasn't been noticed for such so it has to be noticed.

Okay, but um yeah.

Yeah, uh if there's an agreement between the sponsor and the department, then it might be unnecessary at this point.

Okay.

Um again, again, we want to be clear, it's not saying there's five mile an hour speed limit in the city.

That would in some ways be a backdoor banning of scooters in the city.

Yeah, not saying from my understanding of reading the ordinance that there's uh wholesale bail ban throughout um zone one, which again could could be a backdoor ban on scooters in zone one, or push them onto the sidewalk out of the road um where you might feel uncomfortable going five miles an hour.

Um, but uh as written, it looks like it would uh work with the commissioner on identifying geofence slow speed areas where five miles an hour would be.

So these high pedestrian areas, for example.

Um, thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh I would ask I this resolution I think already um references and accomplishes what the department is already doing.

So I'm a little unclear as to the the need behind it.

Um there are already slow zones, they continue, they've they've testified that they continue to um look for more or modify them as needed.

Uh we know that third street what or MLK drive was not part of a slow zone previously, it is now uh since that incident.

Um I just don't know why it's needed.

But um I do see a member of the public here um who has very relevant testimony um regarding scooters um and and uh injury she sustained right when the the program was launched.

Uh and if I would um Mr.

Chair, I'd uh ask for uh a couple moments for for her testimony.

Um I have not been given any notice that somebody wishes to testify, so I'm not apt to change our procedure right here.

I'm sure we can get all sorts of valuable testimony on this issue, but again, it's on the one hand we're saying it's only affecting what the department's already doing on the other that we're gonna open it up to public testimony, which is a very um this is an issue that could get a lot of public testimony, but uh as I understand it it's narrowly focused.

And when the department communicates with me, I would say the entire fourth Aldermanic district portion of zone one meets this definition as a high density, high pedestrian, high traffic area.

Uh I would just think uh there's very few areas that would not meet that definition in zone one in the fourth Aldermanic district.

Well, it if if you're traveling down Water Street at five miles an hour in traffic without a protected bike lane, that's a lot less safe than traveling 15 miles an hour.

So I don't think that the that every street in the city or in every street in any portion of the city would, yeah, I don't think it would be responsible to have a five mile an hour zone everywhere, because then you'll have even more scooters on the sidewalks because it'll be inherently less safe to operate next to a bus that's going 25 or 30 miles an hour.

Well, in any case, the resolved clause says that DPW shall identify and create one or more slow speed areas within the portion of zone one.

So that's a conversation you'll have with the Alder, but as written, I'm not the city attorney, it doesn't seem like it mandates a certain understanding of what that would be.

There's there would be a conversation.

And if it did mandate that, Alderman Bauman's file might have might fail in committee.

So there might be an amendment.

Yep.

Okay.

So uh any other comments, questions from committee members?

Mr.

Chair, Alder uh Chambers.

If we'd have split the baby with 10 be sufficient, split the baby.

Fifteen, uh five to fifty.

Well, ten would be the ten for the entire area.

I I don't think we can answer that here.

No, I think that that's uh that's it.

That's fine.

Yeah.

I would agree to 10 maximum in the entire downtown area with slow zones overriding that in select locations.

With Alderman, so Jeremiah.

Okay.

There's been a motion to hold by Alderman Chambers.

Uh any discussion of the motion?

Alderman Bauman, are you supportive of the motion?

Yeah, that's fine.

Okay.

Then Alder Chambers has moved that this item be held for further discussion and fine-tuning.

And hearing no objections, so ordered.

Thank you.

Thank you all so much.

Item 14, file number 260369, substitute ordinance relating to dangerous and exotic animals.

For those who've read the file, they say that this would ban exotic animals from riding scooters because it's dangerous.

I might have misread it.

Okay.

I gotta read it a second time.

Um, this is item 14, file number 260369, substitute ordinance relating to dangerous and exotic animals.

Alderman Bauman.

Yes, this is uh phase two of our amendments and reforms to chapter 78 of the code of ordinances relating to animal welfare.

This particular file, primarily at the suggestion of the Department of Neighborhood Services, addresses and clarifies certain issues regarding dangerous animals, whether they be dangerous pet animals or actual dangerous exotic animals, which were not even to be considered pets in the normal discourse.

So I think Mr.

Masmanian is here to voice the department's support and clarifying some of the definitions, uh eliminating the breed specific uh prohibitions, but basically focusing on animal behavior rather than breed specifically, correct?

So correct.

Thank you.

Uh Mike Masmanian, Deputy Commissioner for Neighborhood Services.

Um appreciate Alderman Bauman's support and uh Addis' help in drafting this.

Um I think you touched on on the primary points.

It does create uh an exotic animal definition, which helps us with enforcement for definition of these animals that don't fall into the things that we encounter every day.

Uh it does remove the breed specific language that was within the ordinance so that the um enforcement is based on behavioral characteristics of an animal as opposed to being biased about a specific breed.

Um it does not weaken any of the enforcement measures that that were previously in.

It just makes it more uniform to how an animal behaves as opposed to the specifics about what the breed is.

Okay, uh are there any questions?

The department's supportive um any questions from committee members about the details?

Mr.

Chair, Alder Moore.

Thank you so much.

Um first I would like to um thank our um drafter from LRB Adis who has absolutely probably would have quit if she didn't love us so much, but I just want to say thank you so much for your support on this.

Um, this has been a really complex um set of ordinances, and you know, want to thank um Alderman Bauman for his um leadership in just getting this started because I didn't realize how intricate, you know, our animal ordinances um have been um two things.

Um you know, first time we had a go at this uh there were some um competing um uh thoughts uh currently right now we have some of the main players, MADAC, Humane Society, that's current, you know, that's in agreement as to how we move forward with this particular ordinance, correct?

Correct, yes.

Perfect.

And then um the other part of it, which is always because from the first one, the other part of it was in regards to just sort of enforcement.

Can you all talk a little bit about that?

Because again, we're putting a lot back, you know, we're putting a lot back on DNS, um, to enforce this, and we still have to figure out you know, how does that look like for part one?

Um, how do we can you talk a little bit about how we how we you know do enforcement?

You know, with our staff already so stretched.

I know it's a it's uh it's a horrible question, but I gotta put it on the table.

Uh well, with this change, uh, it gives us a little bit more tools.

So the enforcement side, like exotic animals.

We have had exotic animals within the city that we've had complaints about.

We've had to engage with uh some of which those animals had to be euthanized.

Sorry, Lori, could you introduce yourself?

Sorry.

That's okay.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Lori Gallup, code enforcement manager for chapter 78 of our animal ordinance.

Please continue.

So the enforcement side of this uh it does give us a little bit more tools in this this phase uh for the behavioral management plan.

Uh that will cause a little bit more uh staffing to you know kind of monitor that plan.

So we now are operating with two dog bite uh inspectors, they navigate most of our dog and cat bite kind of any animal bite, so uh I can tell you that there is some concern.

The bites have gone up.

Really?

Uh just in this past year, and so is appeals.

So our our appeals are quite high.

Uh we did have 193 bites just year to date.

Uh 14 were cats, the rest were dogs.

Uh we have 22 appeals year to date.

So, but we are in the high season.

Typically, winter months, people are not walking their animals too much outside.

We don't have uh at large animals, so but we are in the height of our season right now with uh animals at large biting, you know, dog on dog attacks, things like that.

So that's why our numbers are kind of we just kind of hit the high portent of our quarter here.

So enforcement uh we are constantly running data uh to see what our needs are.

We are constantly this ordinance change does help a little bit uh just reevaluating how we manage this entire program.

And Lori, um, or you can answer that as well, Mike.

What what does education look like?

Because we're changing some things that again going back to you know um the first go-round, like how do we provide the education when we do these sorts of changes back out to community?

Like, yes, yeah.

I think um I think we've had some correspondence regarding this and how we do that.

I think uh we really need uh the support of our partners.

I think I've been willing to, you know, um help with that effort with you know outreach and correspondence about communicating these changes and making sure people are aware of them.

Yeah.

Um, so I think that that's that's gonna be an ongoing effort to make sure that people are aware.

I have ten interns for the summer.

Let's figure something out because yeah, because the education piece, we can change things all day, um, but if we're not pushing back out to our community, like I I don't I don't know, you know, it's just like oh whatever.

Like if we don't have a system or a mechanism um to let the community know, hey, these are the changes.

Um it's really it falls back on us, and so however, for me for me personally, however I can support would be would be great, but there should be some sort of system in place for us to just be able to get that education back out to community.

And again, our part some of our partners are awesome.

I say we figure out how to utilize them and again um get that information out there.

But thanks, thank you both.

Absolutely.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

Any other questions?

I I gotta um so does this include you know how you have the festivals that we just had Juneteenth day, and they bring snakes down so people can see them handle them.

Um I don't think there's any regulation on that.

I mean, so I don't know how safe that is.

So I choose not to do it.

But this would restrict that activity.

So someone that lawfully possesses a snake that's captured within this ordinance now would be allowed to continue to possess that animal.

Um as far as that, uh I I don't I don't know that I think that's something that happens more organically than it being like, hey, we want to bring snakes to this festival and uh display them.

Um I don't think we've ever been posed that type of a question before.

So I don't know how we would navigate it, but I I think we could certainly find a path or at least provide information for people that were inquiring about it.

I would note that the ordinance does not allow venomous snakes, uh, but there are other snakes that the venom isn't really what causes the issues, so like the boas and things like that.

So, educational side on that one, we have allowed snakes, so okay.

Mr.

Chair, to that point, that's a good question.

There are seven exemptions to the general prohibition.

Uh they include zoos, veterinary hospitals, accredited educational research institutions maintaining exotic animals for academic scientific or research purposes, which may come close to what you're talking about.

Government agency active in the scope of their duties, wildlife rehabilitators licensed by the state of Wisconsin.

Uh, and the one that probably close comes close is licensed or otherwise lawfully authorized circuses, exhibitions, educational programs, research programs or similar special events that are limited in duration and conducted in compliance with all applicable federal, state, and local laws.

So arguably what you're talking about would fall under that exemption.

Right.

Assuming that the individuals that are bringing these have lawfully possessing these animals, and you know, are licensed and meet one of these exemptions, they would be allowed to do that.

The same goes for petting displays, I mean, goats and ring deer, right?

I mean, there well that yoga.

Is that it?

That's it.

Thank you so much for your own.

And I I know it was touched on, but this changes and dangerous animal, one of the definitions it used to be an animal with a known propensity, tendency, or disposition to attack, cause injury to or otherwise threaten the safety of humans or domestic animals or pets.

That was the kind of more breed-specific where you decide a pit bull is dangerous or whatever.

And somebody says my pit bull is the mildest creature you'll ever see.

This would replace that with behavior-based an animal that demonstrates a documented pattern of the aggressive behavior towards persons' domestic pets or other animals that creates a reasonable concern for public safety.

Correct.

Okay.

Mr.

Chair.

Uh Alder Bergells.

Just looking at that uh definition, the second part of the definition, um, does would this ordinance also apply to wild coyotes in a county park that uh chase or approach a person with a in a menacing fashion or apparent attitude of attack without provocation?

So I think because those are non-domesticated wild animals, they would not fall underneath our regulation.

The DNR um uh I think has provided guidance about how to deal with them, but that's not something that um we would take enforcement action under this ordinance.

Coyotes are specifically exotic animals, as defined.

Right, so if someone were to possess one, but if animals at large, like wild ones in the parks, then or DNR issue.

Then okay, thank you.

Uh all right, thank you for um the work on this to Alderman Bauman to the LRB.

This was very detailed.

Um, glad we could come to an agreement.

Um is there a motion then?

We would place on a file.

Yeah, all that work was for nothing, is what Alderman Chambers just said.

Um, so Alder Chambers would move to recommend passage.

Um and hearing no objections, so ordered.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um, last item, item 17, file number 250, 756, it's 758.

Communication.

This is a communication relating to the 2526 activities of the City Hall Campus Emergency Preparedness Committee.

Chief.

Hi, uh good.

Morning.

Uh Chief Aaron Lipsky, Milwaukee Fire Department.

I am co-chair with uh City Clerk Jim Ozarski uh on the city Hall Campus Emergency preparedness committee.

Couple of uh uh uh summary items to bring it all into perspective here.

Uh this group was commissioned on uh July 11th, 2025, uh, in response to an incident that occurred uh at the Zeitler building uh resulting in a belief that perhaps uh there was some sort of armed assailant uh in the building, and uh it brought to light uh some disconnects between various systems that did exist and and did respond that day.

Uh and so this commission uh group was commissioned to tighten up and pull together safety for this entire campus uh to include the 809 buildings, idler building, city hall building, the tunnels connecting all of the above, and it also uh has a slight reach beyond that uh to other citywide uh buildings and their safety plans.

Uh so a ton of work was done before this was uh commissioned, and so those two groups have worked very closely together.

Uh and uh a couple things on what the actual charge of this committee was.

Uh the charge of this committee uh was to produce recommendations by September 30th of this year uh that uh would there's my partner in crime, or preventing crime, my partner in preventing crime.

So uh we were charged with uh meeting at least every two months from the time of commission until we submit our report, and we are to uh make recommendations relating to emergency preparedness and management protocols governing the city hall campus and staff training.

Also to recommend designation of appropriate personnel to develop and provide emergency management, excuse me, emergency preparedness and management protocols and training for city staff working at locations other than the city hall campus.

Uh myself and city clerk Jim O, as I said, uh were to be the committee's co-chairs.

It was recommended in the uh creating ordinance uh that uh we could give you a preliminary report prior to September 30th, and and we really thought that was wise uh so that we could just get it out in the open and tell you where we are, where we've come.

I can tell you that we have made a ton of progress, not just us, but a whole bunch of other city departments uh in our pursuit, and uh we have just for the record, we have met seven times uh and we're making some good headway.

This committee consists of uh uh DER's Jackie Q Carter, uh, the mayor's office, Amber Danius, Common Council Alderman Marina Dmitrieevic, City Attorney Evan Goicke, uh Mowkey Police Department Inspector Andrew Tisher, DPW's Tom Tarkowski, and City Emergency Manager Brian Zolikoff.

We're assisted by uh Carmen Roman.

Uh I've got a very, very short PowerPoint presentation to put it all into focus for you here, and please interrupt if you see fit.

Uh we uh we very clearly just want to make things safer.

We want people to have a better idea of what they're supposed to do next.

This does not mean every person needs to turn into a firefighter or a paramedic or a police officer.

This means the vast majority of the people occupying this building who are unsworn, untrained, unequipped people doing regular business, uh we need to give them some sort of idea of what's supposed to happen next.

Uh as we go through this, uh I want to point out we we started with a pretty tight charge, if you will, where we started looking at umbrella tasks.

This has uh expanded to include 32 specific areas.

Uh, these either being technology solutions, function areas, communication issues, how we might inspire people who live and work or excuse me who work in this building or or come to to conduct business in this building.

How do we communicate to them?

How do we get them to care?

How do we get them to participate in what we're talking about?

Uh not to go off on a tangent, but we get a lot of emails.

When you work in city, you get a ton of emails, and we don't want our emails to get missed.

All the emails are important, I presume.

We want people to dive in on these emails because this actually affords them some self-preservation.

Um, and uh, yep, you can see originally 28 tasks and it has grown to 32.

If we could jump to the next slide, um we've got a pretty simple stoplight traffic light system, uh has been completed, is in process or pending, or uh is not yet underway.

There are some that we started that were then paused, either because of contracting or technology issues, or because another solution eliminated the need for that specific task.

We can jump to the next one, please.

As you can see, 26 of these have been completed, five are pending, uh none are on standby, and we have paused the one.

And I'll get into some specifics on that as we go.

Uh next slide, please.

So uh we have developed a facility safety plan.

There's four tasks in there that we can get into uh and and at any point.

Please interrupt or uh ask for clarification.

We've got a safety training calendar.

You've probably all been witnessed to the PA system training.

Uh, that is not just the testing of the PA system in the alarm system, but uh when we have a major emergency in one of these buildings, the fire department uh specifically and law enforcement as well, we need to interact with the building systems.

Uh, and we have found at some previous emergencies that uh a system that we utilize to communicate to people in the building was partially or in some cases not working, and that uh there were some folks perhaps not trained on how to function that uh or make that function.

Uh code red testing, learning management system.

This would be how are we gonna utilize technology so that we're not pulling people offline uh to assemble in person for lecture style instruction on some of these procedures.

Uh 911 system tied to city hall security, this is a big one.

At the time of an emergency, you do not want people making a translation or having to make a judgment call about should I call the security office, should I call 911, should I call both, which said I call first?

And we've had ample opportunities now to discover that creates confusion.

So uh huge kudos to ITMD and Dave Henke on the suggestion is if you have an emergency in your building, you pick the phone up and you call 911.

Do not do not worry about an overestimate or an underestimate, it will automatically loop in and ring at the security office, and they will pick up and everybody can hear the information at the same time, so that if there is a response that they can initiate right now being in the building, that happens, but we are not losing time getting the rest of the troops inbound.

Uh and or suffering translation error between multiple callers, as happens already.

911 callers are not usually excellent historians, so you need to like pull the information, and this allows everybody to hear those corrections and those queries at the same time, Mr.

Chair, Alder Moore.

Just really quick, Chief.

Um, when we're calling, you're um, when when you say that um don't worry about it, is it calling from a landline?

Like we're picking up our picking up an office phone or great question.

Uh so these would be hardwired landlines.

Okay.

If you're calling from a cell phone, that's just gonna hit a tower.

Sure, that well, I don't think we have the technology to tie everybody's cell phone.

No, I just wanted to be clear, about yeah, nope that is a great point.

Um building emergency codes, security cameras.

Uh, and these are these are all things that we've tightened up.

There were some issues with coverage of security cameras where we thought they were covering something, they weren't, so now we've got a much uh more comprehensive sweep.

DEC public safety alerting.

So this would be you've started to probably notice uh Wednesdays at noon when we're gonna have a tornado drill.

You're if you're signed into this uh public safety alerting, you're you're getting a prompt that says we're conducting an alert right now.

Uh uh we remember on television, if this were an actual emergency, this would have been followed by directions or information.

Same sort of thing here.

Uh city safety meetings.

So we have a city safety committee already, uh, and that committee has been revitalized and is beginning to uh uh dovetail with what we're trying to do.

It's it's it's another way we can uh get the words out on this.

Uh QR code with uh on the safety website.

This allows people a touch point uh where they can either just learn or they can communicate with this entire effort.

Now there's a lot of people involved here, so uh wrestling smoke, wrangling the cats, however you want to describe it, it is uh many, many headed effort, and we just want people to have kind of one-stop shopping.

So if they got to reach this group, how do they do that?

And that's that's that right there.

Healthy reward points.

If they participate in these trainings, uh they can it's a motivator, uh, and that that has real dollar impacts on uh insurance and whatnot.

DER employee separation policy when when it's time for an employee to be uh let go or separated.

Uh it's typically not a happy time.

Uh and so we have made a notification policy, so that doesn't mean there's some big heavy-handed, you know, overwatch from law enforcement, but it is much better to know that sort of thing in advance than to find out after the fact when it might go awry.

Uh a joint information center.

Uh this is common terminology utilized in incident command.

Uh, that is something that fire and EMS use.

Uh when we have an emergency, it is crucial that we don't have individuals or separate offices or bodies throwing out partial information that may or may not be yet be uh verified or or accuracy.

This this allows for us to pull everybody together and go listen.

This is what we know.

What do you know?

And pull it together.

This is not just good common sense, this is uh a safety issue.

Uh, if if we have responders coming in and we have one group or another group putting information out, that can really jeopardize an operation.

Uh, we we're we're in a uh we're in a new world here.

Yeah.

Panic button testing.

Um there are panic buttons in various spots uh throughout the complex.

Let's make sure they're actually working and that they're reporting the proper location and that that is being received and responded to.

Uh full building access badge.

This was uh something uncovered where uh if MPD and MFD quite frankly needs access to a spot, you make no mistake, we'll get into the spot, but we'd rather not you know destroy a bunch of doors in the in the process.

Furthermore, uh, in certain emergency situations, it would be much better if we could move through those doors, or our law enforcement partners could move through those doors without making a bunch of noise, yeah.

Uh and we found out the past code pass cards weren't kind of all access passes that's been updated.

Uh an employee safety newsletter.

This lets us put out this constant changing environment of what we're trying to push out.

Uh uh it's another avenue to get it out.

The city hall opening hours.

Uh we we corrected the time that the doors were actually being unlocked to more closely mirror when the building is actually open and functioning.

Uh there was a a large uh uh it was being opened much earlier than the actual functioning hours, like city hall or that's correct.

Okay, yeah, it it's just uh you talk about the land of.

Well, this is just what we've always done.

This is how I was taught to do it.

Uh, and and I correct me if I'm wrong, but let's just say 5 30 in the morning, someone it was their job to go and unlock the doors, but nothing was actually open until seven or eight.

That's a that's a huge amount of time where the building's not monitored.

Absolutely.

Anybody can come and go.

There's lots of little spots.

So let's tighten that up.

Makes sense.

That's done.

Good.

We have an employee safety website.

Again, it's another means.

People learn different ways.

Let's let's blanket the environment.

Uh building floor maps.

So we have uh multiple different departments have worked collaboratively to tighten up the floor plans for each floor.

What is where?

Where are uh defibrillators?

Where are fire extinguishers?

Where are the smoke heads?

Are all the smoke detectors working?

Uh where are the standpipe systems, fire escapes, egress pathways.

It's now formalized.

Uh and and we're going campus-wide with that.

And then uh we've got the CIT conference line and we've got the uh code red SOP.

Uh so that's like we could talk for about six hours here.

I'm not sure that you all are on board for that, but uh if we jump to the next one, we can come back to any items you would like to uh dig in.

Wait, really quick, um Mr.

Chair.

Yes, just really quick, um, Chief.

Um so as far as those required trainings that we're re that we're required to have, you know, the online stuff we log in.

Will any will there be any additional things that we would be as far as the requirement that will be that we will be required to do?

Anything created based on the conversation that you you know you all have been having.

So uh we're in two worlds with this right now.

Some of the things are already in play.

Okay.

So if you're getting the email and says, hey, watch this training, yep.

Um, good idea to watch the training again.

It's uh we can't want for your safety more than you do, of course, right?

So we but we're trying to get the information out.

The other world we're in is everything we're doing here is just our recommendation to the council.

Got it.

So we've we just didn't think it was prudent to just wait until September to start checking boxes that we could check right now.

Uh time is of the essence uh where safety is concerned.

Yeah, so that's kind of a and Mr.

Chair to that question by the way, Jim Ozarski City Clerk.

My apologies for my tardiness.

I was following along and didn't know that other files had been skipped.

Yeah.

Um, but here I am.

Uh, with apologies for that.

Um, to answer the alder woman's question, one of the most important things to me in this, taking communication from common council members, uh, centers around the SEPTEDs, the the review, the site review of all those areas of the common council city clerk, obviously, particularly room 205, but all of them licensed division city channel, where we're sitting right now.

I want to give immense credit to the fire department, to the police department, as well as the professor from Arizona State University who was superintending that.

We are still waiting to hear back the final results of the SEPTED review.

But out of that SEPTED review, which was you may have seen them that day, it's a couple months ago now.

Uh it was a coterie of police officers and other officials kind of going through our spaces, crawling around in back here and really everywhere.

Uh, there was in fact a committee meeting going on in here, and suddenly a number of police faces showed up in that window.

Um, but those folks are going to be giving us a lot of feedback for where we have deficiencies, and I very much want to see those things turn into trainings, you know, turn in opportunities.

I was here on the day that triggered all this.

Uh I made a lot of notes at the time as to where we succeeded and where we definitely failed.

And some of those things are addressed what the chief is saying, but definitely out of those septets I want to see some new required trainings for staff.

And Mr.

O, can you explain for the listening audience what a SEPTED is?

What does it stand for?

Yes, it um septhead is crime prevention, crime prevention by environmental design.

There we go.

There it is.

Crime prevention by environmental design.

I get that.

See, there's a missing letter in there that they everybody wants to pronounce.

Yes.

But it's and it's it's actually, as I think the council is well aware, a standard tool used at licensed establishments to try to improve their safety, whether they be bars or restaurants or liquor stores.

They also apply to institutional locations, and so we're gonna be taking their recommendations to heart.

And uh I have also made specific requests for SEPTED review of our uh municipal research library and our historic preservation section and the record section that are in the basement of the Seidler building, as well as for our city channel and license.

They did a licensing, as well as for the city channel operations.

I want to see them all get that because all that to me really informs so that you you can't you know give the answer until you know the right question, and I think that's where we're headed there.

Yeah.

By the way, I'm up to date on all my trainings, just wanted to throw that out there.

We are we are giving out the most complete award at the end of this presentation.

Thank you so much.

I will take it.

That will be going to you all their own.

All right.

So what is left?

Uh incident command system.

I feel like I'm a broken record talking about this.

There are far better ways for anybody that is truly interested to solve uh new and and unplanned threats and events that spill out onto our uh into our environment, and that is the incident command system.

Fire department uses this for just about 99% of what we do.

It's it's the national incident management system standard.

Patriot Act requires any unit that receives or any department or agency that receives federal dollars to function according to the national incident management system.

Your Milwaukee fire department does this quite well.

We are constantly trying to impress upon everybody.

Let's use this system.

It allows for management of information flow up and down and laterally and command and control.

People know who they're answering to and who answers to them.

They know what their instructions are, they know how to follow up and provide feedback on progress.

This is something that uh we're we're working on and we're we're getting some traction here on uh kind of imbuing that onto uh this entire plan for for the city hall complex and citywide.

Uh some other uh pending items here, council concerns.

I put that on here, or we put that on here because this is gonna remain an open item.

You folks are one of our largest groups of eyes and ears at all different times of day in this building, so we need to hear your concerns.

Uh I want to rest assured, uh Alder Roman Dimitrievic, uh, as your representative has been an extreme advocate for uh elected official safety and for the safety of women who are working in this building, uh, and for uh privacy concerns and for safety concerns where um access to different parts of this complex are concerned.

Uh this committee has heard those concerns.

We are we are taking steps to make sure that those things are uh for certain addressed and not treated as like a separate thing, it is part of the entire plan.

Uh pending also would be a staff meeting mock tabletop exercise.

This could be within an individual department.

My uh pie in the sky ideas we would have a much larger multi-department, maybe even multi-building exercise at some point to stress test these things.

A plan and a binder shoved on a bookshelf somewhere, just collects dust.

That is how it is in the private world.

It certainly isn't different here just because we work in the building uh as public officials.

Department safety visits, these have begun already.

Um again, we have heard from employees as we've asked.

When we say what bothers you the most, they're like, I really don't know where to go from my specific corner of our department if this door is blocked or that door is blocked.

Yeah, and uh there may be different departments that need to come out and address some of these concerns.

It could be DPW, it could be MPD, it could be MFD.

Uh so where needed, we gather up as a team.

We will we will go and make a specific site visit and offer recommendations for their unique space.

Desktop alerts, uh, this was more of a technology snag at this point, and uh working on that.

Uh Ryan Zolikofer has been pursuing kind of a universal communication method.

Uh we hit some snags, he is on it.

Again, the parking visitation policy, that is something that is also pending.

I uh, so that was you know eight nine months worth of information distilled down into uh somewhat simple bullet points, but we are uh we are hard at work.

We will have a written plan ready prior to September 30th, as per the uh ordinance, and the idea is that this doesn't just fall asleep on September 30th, but that these recommendations we offer are a springboard to uh very real progress.

I would offer that uh this committee has been it's been a pleasure to work with everybody's participating.

Uh there once was a position in days gone by in DPW, and I'll butcher the name, but it was called facility safety director or safety manager for facilities and hardening facilities, and I can't speak to exactly when that went away.

I would offer that it may be included in the recommendations that such a position be restood back up because to do this sort of stuff by committee, uh once once we get this ball rolling, you need a person that you can fix responsibility to and provide authority to that supersedes all the other departments and all the other uh day-to-day concerns that get in the way of active participation sometimes.

Uh Ryan Zolikoffer, our emergency manager for the city has he is stretched so thin, and this isn't really his job, but he has dived in, you know, head first, and he's doing a ton of work on this, but his job is almost much larger than just focusing on where our exit routes are that's that's not in his uh he has other far more important things to be doing, I guess is what I'd suggest.

So we've got uh a ton of recommendations that we will show up with prior to September 30th.

We will show you progress we've made.

Again, we have not just been sitting on our hands, uh, and then we'll uh turn those over.

And we at this point, I guess I'd I'd love to hear if you have any things you need clarification on or suggestions for what we might include that we haven't included.

Mr.

Chair.

Uh I'll do more.

Just really quick, I just want to um chief say just thank you so much for um this insight in this presentation.

Um it shows that we're taking this very seriously.

Um and so thank you so much for that.

Really quick, I um I would love to um going back to like this mock exercise, right?

We just recently had um probably about a month or two ago now, our I think it was our tornado drill, yeah, right.

Um, like I I definitely think that we should um instill, you know, whether it's the the annual, whatever.

I think our tornado drill might be an annual thing.

Is that something we do when you move?

Um Mr.

Chair, that was the first tornado drill I have experienced as a city employee get out.

We used to have fire drills on the regular.

Okay, so it's not something we did regularly, but hopefully that it's because I think that mock tech like people with accessibility issues.

Like I think that those are the things that again, you know, the stress test that you talk about, like how would that um look like in real life?

Like it's great to see words on a paper, right?

But when you're actually um implementing it, you know, you know, it just for me I'm a visual, I'm I got a touch and feel I gotta do.

Absolutely um so that it helps stick in my mind that when it comes, because um other things take over our mind when we're put into situations where there's you know, hey, there's a co-ware, there's a lockdown, and it's just like what do I do, you know what I mean?

And and so being able to implement an exercise when the time comes.

Um, for me, I think that it is something that we should um implement just as a precautionary way that folks know nope, this is what you don't even have to think much, this is what you do.

You already went through sort of the process.

So I would love um in the future to see um something um something like that, and to also just say that um I want to keep City Hall a place where it doesn't feel like you know I'm going to the airport, you know.

I want people to feel comfortable because we have elders, we have young people, we have all walks of life that come through our doors.

Um making it safe is a priority as well as keeping it accessible is something that for me, I want to um make sure that we're keeping on the table um so that people just don't feel like oh crap, I'm not going down to City Hall.

Like it's just it's just too much, right?

We do I I do want this space to be kept as a place where you know people feel welcomed, um, but at the same time we have those safety mechanisms in place that whoever walks through the door, um, that that's a priority.

So thank you both so much.

Yeah, thank you.

And Mr.

Chair, if I can just uh a brief uh comment on what uh one thing you mentioned that I I want to make sure that you know we are also it's in every conversation we're having is the accessibility issue.

Uh so that I mean i listen, no matter who you are, uh you have a right to survive an emergency in a building.

And so not all building systems always work the same in different emergencies.

So we're we're hammering out what is the response then.

It can't just be oh well, yeah, that's not acceptable.

So uh it's it's it's in every discussion we're having.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Uh for the what's left the parking visitation policy.

Could you just say a little bit about what that entails?

Uh sure.

So we had um I don't know what specifically it was in response to, but it was reported to our committee uh that a photograph had been taken in the city parking or in the lower parking that we're all familiar with that one.

Okay, so I don't park there, I don't have a spot there, but I understand what do you like?

Yeah, we have to look at it.

But you brought up the incident and just made us chuckle.

I'm just kidding, but sidewalks.

Exactly.

So we uh make sense, thank you.

We were made aware that uh uh uh there had been a media visit or a photograph taken in this area, and that was extremely alarming because we now have this published out in media, uh and license plates and cars and whatnot, and that became that was uh I mean that makes sense to me.

I really wouldn't want to have my personal stuff put in the media.

No, we're all public figures.

There's a certain you know uh expectation that you know the public has the right to redress their elected officials, right?

But that has certainly been taken to a a new level, I think, of late.

So why would we want to encourage or allow that?

So that is that is the genesis of that concept.

Okay.

So that's but that's there's something coming still with respect to the parking and visitation policy because there was I know there was the change for leaving the garage now, you have to scan your badge that up.

Mr.

Chair, the our understanding at our last meeting was that the DPW is trying to come up with a comprehensive policy to address that um to try to come up with a a reasonable policy.

And I think the same thing is true for visitation.

We have a visitation policy in 205, requires escorts.

You're all familiar with these things.

That also goes down to the sort of identification people are going to be required to carry with them at all times.

Uh we are waiting to see if there isn't some sort of citywide policy that is evolved because obviously I think it not every circumstance fits every department, but I think there should be a reasonable consistency across departments.

So those are the two pieces we're really waiting for.

Something for lower parking, something for parking generally, but also for visitation.

What are the rules for visitors?

What should they be?

Because if I if I may pick my brief stand, I trust I need to tell no one here about my love for this building and its history and the people and providing access as the alder woman describes is of key importance to me.

Um to make it as accessible and frankly welcoming as we possibly can uh rather that it having be a forbidding secure bunker.

Yeah.

Mr.

Chair, on that point really quick.

Uh yeah.

Just with the garage, I actually it was annoying at first because you know, when you have to when you have change, it's just like, uh, but I actually like the that um scanning out feature.

Um because if someone ends up in the parking lot that's not supposed to be there, that's trying to do something that they're not supposed to be doing, they can't just drive out with RV.

You know what I mean?

So it it it takes it took some getting used to, but I do like the the scan out um the badge out to exit the the garage.

I just want to put that on the record.

Thank you.

I'll put it on the record.

I don't like it.

I know, I know.

Um although it's a um just one quick thing, just because you were just talking about the visitation into um City Hall, and I and I may have missed it, apologize for that, but um what we're thinking about having individuals sign in and out um in different departments.

So if they come up to visit uh in the council area that they would sign in so we know who's here and who's not.

Um we in the event of an emergency and you have to evacuate people, that seems to be.

Ah, yes.

That had not been on the list.

It certainly could be.

It's certainly a policy others embraced.

The concern we can, you know, we discuss it more fully offline, but the concern always is is that that then creates a public record of who is visiting public officials and can be undesirable.

There is a standing policy in the office that all individuals who are not employees, badged employees are required to be escorted.

So presumably those individuals that are not badged employees should be accounted for by those individuals who are engaged with them.

Okay.

Um obviously that's not perfect.

I would never pretend it is, but that's the current one.

We could certainly discuss that.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

And uh reiterate Alder Moore's um thanks for both of your work and also those of the other committee members.

This is um really important work.

Um it maybe doesn't get headlines in that, but uh we can make a huge difference um should should something unforeseen happen.

So thank you again for the yeoman's work here.

And uh along those lines, Mr.

Chair, I'd be remiss if I didn't thank Becca Bine from the LRB who's been following us, uh, much like the uh, behind you, just thank her.

There's you back there.

Uh who's been behind us so much like the uh the sweeper at the circus parade who gets asked why do you do this?

Just said what leave show business.

Um she's been following us along very dedicatedly all along, and I'm grateful for her work.

Thank you.

Sure, for that Alder Chambers.

Place on file.

Alder Chambers moves that this item be placed on file and hearing no objections.

Thank you very much.

Appreciate it and appreciate it.

We are adjourned.

Thank you.