Zoning, Neighborhoods & Development Committee Meeting – July 7, 2026

Chair of the committee.

Uh joining me in the committee room to my far left is uh uh is alderman spiker to my immediate left is uh Chris Flee, our staff assistant.

We're joined on the big board by Alderman Jackson and we'll shortly be joined by Alder Woman Cogs and by Alderman Stamper.

Uh we're gonna hold item one to a later point in the meeting.

Uh Alderman Westmoreland is running a little late.

Uh we'll go to item two, file two six zero three zero two resolution authorizing the sale of the city-owned tax deed properties at 2034-2038 West Greenfield Avenue in the 8th Aldermanic district.

Anyone here on this item?

Staff should be outside.

Well, I guess we'll hold this item to a later point in the meeting.

All right.

I assume the same would be applied to item three, so we'll hold that item.

Moving to item four, file two five two one nine zero, a substitute ordinance relating to the change in zoning from general plan development to a new detailed plan development known as the Evert Multifamily to allow a multifamily residential development on the property located at 234 West 234 Southwater Street on the east side of Southwater Street, south of East Pittsburgh Avenue in the 12th Aldermanic District.

Anybody here on this item?

Yes.

The developers are here.

Well, come on up, tell us what you're doing.

There should probably be a presentation on this one.

Yeah, time FSIR.

All right, it looks like the DCD.

Is anybody here on anything?

What are you guys here on?

Your number five.

I think we might have thought number one.

So maybe they're that's why they're not.

Uh number five, a substitute for file two six zero zero four-six.

They substitute ordinance relating to the change in zoning from industrial light li to industrial office I-01 for the western fifty feet of 1215 West Leighton Avenue, located on the south side of West Leighton Avenue, east of South 13th Street in the 13th Aldermanic District.

Good morning.

Good morning, sir.

Alderman Spiker, you know anything about this.

Yep, this is just uh change in zoning to facilitate a CSM.

Uh the property owner owns the adjacent parcels for an expansion.

No issues on this in your mind?

Nope.

Alderman Spiker moves the recommend passage, hearing no objections, so order.

All right, we got one thing accomplished today.

Yes, sir.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you guys.

All right, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Albert.

Oh, you want to go to number two?

All right.

Okay, we're going back to number two here.

Number two, item 260302.

Resolution authorizing the sale of the city owned tax deed properties at 2034-2038 West Garfield Avenue in the 8th Aldermanic District.

All right.

Good morning.

Rosita Ross from Department of City Development here to discuss the uh disposition for 2034 through 28 West Greenville Avenue and the 8th Automatic District.

Uh the city acquired the lots uh through tax foreclosure and July of 2010.

Uh the lots are currently zoned, LB2.

Um the current development is for uh side-by-side uh townhomes, which will be owner-occupied.

Uh the buyer is uh sustainable development, uh L C doing business as via.

They're the buyer, they will be developing those into town homes.

Uh these uh town homes will be uh owner-occupied.

Um the city is selling the uh lots for uh dollar.

Uh the investment for the um town homes will be about uh a million.

Uh the uh development.

No, no.

No.

Uh this development is like a phase development.

Uh the town townhomes.

Uh we'll be uh why don't you take over?

Yes.

Uh good morning, Chairman Bauman, uh Alderman Spiker.

Uh Joanna Bouch, executive director of via CDC.

Um sustainable development is a disregarded entity of the nonprofit organization, which we utilize to do our construction work.

We've been doing housing development since 2008.

Our intention with the lot is to build um townhomes for homeownership.

Each unit will cost about 275,000 to develop.

Okay.

Uh, our intention is to build four units on this particular lot.

Four units.

Four units, so it's two buildings, four units.

Got it.

All right.

Okay, very good.

I assume the local older person is in favor.

Yes.

Very good.

All right.

Uh any other questions or comments?

Hearing none, Alderman Spiker moves a recommendation.

Adoption and hearing no objection to that so order.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Moving on to item three, file 260304.

Resolution authorizing the sale of the city old tax lead property at 3068 North Titonia Avenue in the 6th Aldermanic District.

Morning.

Good morning.

Resita Ross D C D this is a vacant lot.

Um at 3068 North Tetonia Avenue in the SIS Automatic District.

Uh, our buyer, uh Mr.

Antoine Williams doing business as 3706 property uh investment LLC.

He currently owns the uh property next door where he is uh redeveloping that uh business and uh he is looking to purchase uh vacant lot uh for extra parking and daycare um outside play.

I'll turn it over to Antoine for him to give you a little bit more information about his development.

Please.

Yeah.

Uh I purchased um 3074 North North Ottonia about a year ago.

The previous owner had it for like 25 years, so it's set on that corner for a long time.

So meah, me and my development team, we just it's a six thousand square foot building, so we turned it to a child care center, but unfortunately, without parking or playground spaces, it cannot be made.

So since a lot is vacant, I have to see where they sell it to me.

Uh they normally they know uh we're gonna get the job done.

So that's all I needed for.

I need some parking in the playground space.

Okay, very good.

Sounds reasonable.

Old Woman Cogs.

I think you're on the big board.

I think.

Yes.

Approval's been moved.

Hearing no objection, so order.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, moving on to are we ready on number uh four at this point?

Right.

All right, number four, file two five two one nine zero.

A substitute ordinance relating to the change in zoning from general plan development to a new detailed plan development known as the Everett Multifamily to allow a multifamily residential development on the property located at 234 South Water Street on the east side of Southwater Street, south of East Pittsburgh Avenue in the 12th Aldermanic District.

All right, good morning, members of the committee.

I'm Tony Fonseca, City Planning Director from the Department of City Development.

This site has been zoned a detailed plan development or DPD since around 19 uh 99, and several development proposals have been approved in the past, including the most recent 2019 DPD known as Ad Admiral's Wharf, uh, though none have been constructed.

The Admiral's Wharf development entailed an 11-story residential building with 3,400 square feet of commercial space and an associated river walk.

That DPD has since expired, and the site is currently zoned GPD or general plan development pursuant to the provisions of the zoning code.

The site continues to be used as parking for board boat trailers and minimal daily parking.

There's a new proposal for the site now, and that requires a change in zoning back to a new detailed plan development.

Additionally, the site is within the riverwalk uh site plan review overlay zone or spras requiring a river walk to be constructed in conjunction with the construction of the overall development.

That item relating to the riverwalk overlay was approved by City Plan Commission at the same time this rezoning file was considered.

The applicant team is here to go through their presentation of the proposal for the site, but briefly.

A 12-story residential building with 200 residential units, the majority of which will be studios and one bedrooms.

There will be 198 internal vehicle parking spaces and 50 bike parking spaces for residents, in addition to short-term bike parking racks placed near the main building entrance at the corner of Water and Pittsburgh.

Similar to the prior proposal, vehicle access will be from East Oregon Street to the south, which will be constructed as part of the development.

And building materials are consistent of a pre uh consist of a precast architectural concrete base and brick with accent metal and fiber cement paneling.

All the units will have a private outdoor balcony or Juliet balcony, and there will be several amenities provided for residents, including an outdoor amenity deck on the fifth floor and a rooftop outdoor space.

A new river walk segment will be constructed along the river frontage and includes generous outdoor gatherings areas on the north and south ends, connected by a ramped walkway to make up for the fairly significant gray differential of the site.

The river walk will connect under the Pittsburgh Avenue Bridge as well to the north, and pedestrian connections will be provided on both the north and the south ends.

In review of the city's comprehensive plan, the site is within the harbor district's water and land use plan area.

And the overall vision for this area is to continue its transition to a mixed-use live, work, and play neighborhood with a compact urban form that is walkable and inviting.

Waterfront access is prioritized to provide residents and visitors an opportunity to enjoy Milwaukee's river walk system.

And the plan encourages high-density multi-story buildings that take advantage of the water reviews.

And this plan identifies this as a primary development site to accommodate high density development that supports transit-oriented development near the South First Street corridor.

A high-rise multifamily residential building at this location that provides a river walk connection is highly consistent with the land use recommendations of the plan.

Both plans have additional design recommendations to that are relevant to this proposed detailed plan development, and this uh design is consistent with those recommendations.

Staff have reviewed the development plans for the site and feel that the proposed multifamily residential development, inclusive of the new river walk segment and pedestrian connections, is consistent with the recommendations of the comprehensive plan in that it provides a high density, well-designed building that is pedestrian friendly and activates the river frontage.

The applicant team has worked collaboratively with staff through our design review process.

We feel this is a high quality development that is highly consistent with the comprehensive plan and will contribute positively to the area.

The City Plan Commission held a public hearing on this file and also considered the river walk overlay on June 8th.

At that meeting, three people provided testimony on the file.

One person asked whether the boat slips would be available to non-residents, and two people spoke in opposition to the file, noting concerns regarding the building height and density, removal of existing trees, and an increase in traffic and associated pedestrian safety, among other items.

City Plan Commission unanimous unanimously can recommended approval of the file, conditioned on the applicant providing updated exhibits that incorporate some technical corrections and minor changes to the drawings and narrative.

Those changes have been incorporated into the exhibits and are part of the file you're reviewing today.

And staff concludes that the city plan commission uh conditions have been met.

President Prez is also sponsor of the file.

And our applicant team is here if you have further questions.

Has your design team looked over?

Is this it may be the renderings versus the reality, but this building looks awfully hulking and massive?

And that may be again in the black color that the renderings are done in.

I'm just curious.

Uh your design team reads.

We did review this, and there we've also reviewed material samples, and the applicant team can speak to that a little bit, but yeah, the renderings do appear much darker than the brick that is proposed for the building.

And as I recall, it's the same brick that's used on the Avani.

Oh, really?

And the third ward.

Yeah, it just didn't come across well.

Okay.

Because this again, this looks like a real big, husky, bulky, massive building, but you're saying that's not the case in reality.

That's that is not our in in our review the case, no.

Um, we we believe that it will fit the site well and is consistent with other development proposals that we've reviewed on this site.

Well, it's a little bigger than what's across the river, actually.

It is a little bigger.

And it's quite a bit bigger than what's upstream on this side of the river.

So it it will stand out in that sense, will it not?

It on this key site, we think that it will fit with it within the envelope on the site.

Currently it's about 30 feet short or less in height than the the grain silos about a block to the south.

Those are about 165 feet.

The grain the green silos.

Well, I don't I don't assume those are going to be there forever, though.

Well, we don't know.

Yeah.

Well, we'll find out.

Um, but uh the last proposal uh was for an 11 story and and this is 12, but I believe some of the the ceiling heights are is this a site that once had the helicopter uh landing?

Correct, yes on the roof?

Yes, yes.

Okay.

Yeah, that one didn't shake out.

To say the least, right?

And that was actually bigger than this, if I if memory serves.

That may that may be the case.

Yeah, there have been enough proposals on the site that it's it's hard to memorize.

I mean, are we are we in for a TIFF on that part?

Is this going to be a standard 70-30 deal?

Yes, yep.

But that isn't coming come before us yet.

The river walk was reviewed by City Plan Commission.

The review part, yes, but I'm saying the f the tip file, correct.

So that will be another file coming at some point in the future.

Yes.

Okay, I see everybody nodding their heads back there.

Okay.

Okay, any questions by committee?

Any questions on the big board?

Uh this is uh does require a public hearing.

So is any members of the public wish to testify about this item?

Nobody appears to wish to testify, so they'll we'll close the public hearing.

Uh hearing no further oh we'll hear from the developers.

Short of any questions.

I appreciate the invite.

I appreciate being here as you know we've uh developed in this uh general area before.

It was uh successful and uh appreciate being back here working with staff.

Everything seems to be going very well on the site.

So how many units is the Ivani?

261.

So that's actually bigger in the number of units, but not as but shorter, yeah.

Because of the design guidelines in the third ward, basically.

Generally speaking, yeah.

Okay.

And how's that how's the lease up going with that?

Because that's a market rate project, correct?

Yeah, yeah.

Going well.

Okay.

Thus we're here and ready to go for round two.

So right.

Well, this is a prominent site, and and we're joined by VJS, uh, which is the current owner, correct?

Uh owner, uh, and you know, contractor and designer.

Oh, you you will be the general contractor on this project.

Oh, well, that's convenient.

Uh all right.

They also were on a body.

All right.

Got it.

I understand.

All right, very good.

Mr.

Chair?

Yeah, well, I'm Jackson.

Uh does this site contain any um restaurant stores as all residential?

All residential.

Oh, yeah.

Uh active first floor space, uh, you know, management offices, co-working space, exercise facilities, that sort of thing.

And so you'll see activity on the first floor as you're walking the boardwalk, but all internal activity.

I was just saying if I was the bar on the top.

That's all that prominent corner there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's that's uh community area offices, uh mail room, co-working space, and then on the back side, large exercise facility.

Uh yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, this is a prominent location that's been vacant a long time.

Uh it it the guy who currently there's there's a tenant on that site, correct?

The Jerry Jerry's docks right here.

Okay.

And he's going to be relocated.

I believe he's just he is also to the south.

I believe he's just shifting the excess storage back to the south.

Uh so he'll still have a presence near the waterfront on that definition.

Okay, very good.

All right, any other questions or comments?

Hearing none, Alderman Jackson moves the recommend passage and hearing no objections to order.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, moving back to item one, Alderman Westmoreland's file.

File 260309.

Communication from the Department of Neighborhood Services providing an operational status update sponsored by Aldman Westmoreland.

Alliman Westmoreland.

Thank you.

Uh good morning to the committee.

Uh thank you to the department for being here today.

The purpose of this communication is not to assign blame, but to better understand the department's current capacity, staffing, workload, and performance.

Our residents expect timely inspections, clear communication, and responsive government.

As policymakers, it is our responsibility to understand what's working, where the challenges exist, and whether there are opportunities to improve service delivery, accountability, and communication with both residents and aldermanic offices.

Um before I get into my questions.

Thank you.

Good morning.

Thank you for having us today.

Um today we're gonna be responding to a communication from the Department of Neighborhood Services, providing uh an operational status update.

Uh the presentation that we put together, uh, wanted to just mention based on the questions the Alderman Westmoreland share.

Uh, we're really oriented to our inspection staff.

So today we're really gonna be looking and zooming in into our inspection um divisions, not necessarily the development center.

With that in mind, we can just start.

Um, fresh reminder of what is our uh mission through the enforcement of building zoning fire, environmental, property maintenance, and other ordinance.

DNS protects the value of investment in neighborhoods and commercial properties while supporting community goals of building safe, healthy neighborhoods and increasing investment and economic vitality throughout the city.

We do this through plan review, permit issuance, building inspections, occupancies inspections, and property maintenance and code enforcement.

We are a total staff of 290.

Um field inspectors, we have 113, that is roughly 40 percent of our staff is dedicated for field inspectors with an annual approximate budget of 27 million for the full department and with an annual approximate revenue of 28, 29 million um dollars.

We want to zoom in into inspection staffing.

Let's just go over all of what it is and actually in code enforcement uh inspector profile.

Um office hours of an eight-hour day, office hours are between two and three hours daily.

This is the time in where inspectors use to schedule inspections, respond to calls, respond to emails, um polish any kind of reports that they need to do, and so on.

From there, um it is inspected, and it's our policy that they also spend between five to six hours daily at the field conducting inspections.

An average stop per day for um a well um rounded um and trained inspector, it's around six stops to eight stops a day.

Um what if are we our equipments besides our vests and any other safety equipment that we handle?

They also uh carry iPads and laptops to do their um performance on the field.

Certifications required for code enforcement inspectors at an entry level are international um property maintenance code um certification and the international fire code fire um inspector one.

These are the basics for performing um our due diligence as enforcement inspectors.

Um if you have any questions about the salary range as an inspector, enforcement inspector, that rounds between 57,000 to 95,000 a year, depending on the entry levels or the experience as the career progression continues.

Inspection staffing level, um, the slide that we're carrying today, it's um for levels from 2020 until today.

Um we are only um for this um exercise um um uh uh focusing in commercial, environmental inspection, residential inspection, and special enforcement inspections.

Um from 2020, um to a few things that I want you to clarify here.

It's like if you see from 2020 to 2026, there's have been some budget adjustments, which means that there's been some polishing in the actual amount of staff dedicated to inspections.

That actually also reflects what is the vacancy average um vacancy rates through the years.

In 2025 in commercial inspection, right at the end of the year, uh we promoted it to inspectors to another divisions of the department.

We are currently doing an onboarding for um the commercial inspection site, uh, which is two inspectors right now.

Um, and residential inspection, almost the same um kind of situation, promotions at the end of the year.

We are currently doing the onboarding, we have the list, and right now we're just like uh starting to get what uh where will be those first time um starting times.

And almost the same with a special enforcement.

Um, with special enforcement, I want to um highlight that for the last few years we have been able to have more than eight inspectors.

That's it.

We are funded for 10.

Um right now we are doing the full recruitment for the whole 10 um positions available.

So right now there's one vacancy, but we're gonna use the two that we were having on hold and trying to see if we can recruit three special enforcements at this point.

So I'm curious, the approved position is actually decreased in the 2026 budget?

That's correct.

I assume you didn't request that decrease.

It was more based on the actual recruitment.

If you notice, like from the last three, four years since 2022, we were not able to attract more than eight or ten inspectors in that side.

And when the budget adjustments were coming, there was positions that were just not getting filled, and we just have to start somewhere to do the adjustments.

So that's why we ended up at 10.

Why aren't the positions being filled?

What's your judgment?

Why is this not an attractive job?

Doesn't pay enough, too much too too hazardous, uh, a little bit of everything, a little bit of everything, and I think from our experience too, this requires a lot of skills, very, very different to what it is residential and commercial.

This is pretty much one of the most complicated and comprehensive special enforcement.

So um what do we do?

Why don't you describe what they do?

Um most of the time um from our perspective, we really deal with also nuisance properties, and we also manage large portfolios of multifamily um properties.

So that's okay.

Hmm.

All right.

And we also do zoning, so those are pretty much the three basics for a special enforcement.

So pretty much a lot of our recruitment is internal for these positions.

It's really hard to actually find qualified individuals outside that kind of like um because although the numbers, the percentage lies a little bit, but I mean you're you're talking 30 percent vacancy.

Correct.

Correct.

So it they look like a high rate vacancies, but the reality is that there was just more shortage or like trimming or given some of the issues we've had with large portfolio properties, wouldn't it be wouldn't we be justified in increasing the number of positions here?

And that's correct, and that's why I'm pushing for those two that have always been like just not filled to really attract and fill those two.

Mr.

Chair?

Yeah, all of them.

Um thank you.

Would would it be safe to say that if there's a need for more enforcement with the multi-unit uh buildings and the attention that they need?

Um is there a way to to to to cover the cost of that through that type of enforcement, considering they're so large and they're not being managed properly.

Um we you know, we had a big communication here about how some of these landlords are using DNS in a really odd way to manage your properties that oh, we know something's wrong.

Now we're gonna, you know, re you know, we're gonna repair it, we're gonna get orders.

So anything that would help us help you to figure out how we can ramp up the cost to these multi-unit buildings that are creating a drain to help us justify the cost for, you know.

Because I know we can't exceed the cost of inspection because of the state statute.

Yeah.

But if we need the lobby there, we need very specific things to lobby for, and or um how do they pay more for the attention they're getting?

Sure.

That's a good question.

Like, management fee we can send them inspection.

I don't think we can do that, but I think we can definitely take a deeper dive at you know, the amount of time that we spend handling these these specific cases.

Um I think a good example that passed recently is the uh posting fee for emergency orders.

So those that we are visiting because we have to issue an emergency order, now have to pay for that time that we spend to go there to post that order to get certified mail, the amount of office time and administer administrative time is significant as well, in addition to what it takes our inspectors in the field going out.

So if you get an emergency order and you correct it within that timeline, previously there was no cost recovery method for for that order.

So now that posting fee accounts for the time that it takes our inspectors to go out, post that order, go out, reinspect that property, and then handle the administrative work on the back end.

This seems counterintuitive.

I mean, back in 2020 You were authorized for 18 positions.

You had 17 in place, and now we're down to seven.

I mean, that that's a huge decline in special enforcement capacity when the problem seems to be expanding.

Especially now with the city attorney going that going into litigation involving which your people are intimately involved, I would assume, correct?

Yes, absolutely.

I mean, that would seem to be a problem to have that.

I mean, you're down 10 people that's well more than half.

Yeah.

What what would anybody do anything about that?

I mean, just curious.

Mr.

Chair, on that um so special enforcement used to be its own unit, a former commissioner was head of it, Erica Lowandowski, Erica Roberts now.

Um the decision was made to kind of fold it under residential.

Um I guess has that was that decision tied to anything with the vacancies.

I mean, now you don't have uh somebody a pure supervisor for residential and commercial and special enforcement advocating for the staffing and stuff.

Was this by design because uh the special enforcement cases I deal with um are mostly zoning ones, illegal auto activity, uh a range of things.

Um so it's not the multi-units, but it's extremely time intensive.

We sometimes have requests for after hours things.

It it it seems like with seven folks, you can't even and that's for the whole city, you can't even begin.

So I guess my question, though, originally was is the folding of special enforcement into residential, was that supposed to accomplish anything?

And how can it accomplish anything if you only have seven out of um seventeen that you had just five years ago?

Yes.

Two um two points for for that question.

The first one was the decision of reorganizing special enforcement with residential.

It's all driven through organization and um increasing the direct reports of management.

This was a strategy for a budget adjustment.

We do know that we've been in budget adjustments for quite a while.

And the best intention here was like not to actually go and do the cuts at the boots on the ground, but actually just reorganize the management perspective of it so we couldn't like um comply with the adjustment of the budgets that we were needing at that moment.

Right now, there is indeed a supervisor for a special enforcement.

The difference is like that supervisor reports to the manager of residential enforcement.

That's the difference.

Um the supervisor manage around the eight um staff that is in there that in in inspectors are.

So that's one way of a reason of why we did that adjustment.

The second one, which is not just briefly on that.

Um the direct direct reports went down in part because of the staffing of special enforcement went down.

So if you had 17 people, then there would be a need for that manager.

So we told, like, hey, well, we need to have fewer um you know, oversight folks over smaller staff that doesn't really address the problem of the reducing staff, and again, from an advocacy standpoint, somebody who's on a par.

And I'm not saying that was the wrong move, but it it what I have found is special enforcement does a ton of work, and even just in my district, the amount of work I have for them goes way beyond what seven inspectors.

And it's understandable, and that's exactly why we're recruiting three inspectors at this moment, so we can have 10 full staff inspectors for the special enforcement.

The second point that I was trying to also address is like I know you mentioned zoning.

Zoning back in the day, way, way, way, way back in the day, it used to be hosted it in the commercial division.

Um that is something that we are re-evaluating it because we do understand that zoning and especially with the large portfolio of multifamilies that we're facing right now, definitely needs that attention.

Um zoning um definitely can be rehoused in an area in where we don't need to overwhelm the special enforcement dedicated it specifically to um special enforcement multifamily inspections.

Any other questions?

Yes, that's all in cogs.

Um are there credentials required for inspectors?

And if so, what are they?

Yes, the initial basic inspections um certifications for a level one entry are international property maintenance code, um, certification and international fire code, fire inspector one.

Um that is through ICC.

That is an entry-level perspective.

Through that, we are working in the career progression that has like they are trained more certifications with the goal of like having a better understanding of framework of what it actually are actually inspections out there, like UDC, uniform dwelling code or commercial code, um certifications, those are different levels, so then they can continue going to their career progression.

But entry level are those two that I just mentioned.

Do we offer um opportunities for those two for maybe internal city staff that are in some other position so that they can move into section we do?

Yes, we do offer a cross-training.

That's one of our new uh sections, uh, the outreach and training division, in where we are actually um cross-training internally.

Um we also right now in the works of getting the certification to actually become a tester um within our own department, instead of then having to go to proctor's offices or anything like that, just to facilitate that site.

Um we have also purchased codes for them to practice for those tests as well.

So um, if we go to the next slide, we can just talk a little bit more about uh what have been actual promotions and transfers.

A lot of these vacancies have been internal promotions, elder woman cox, as you um were asking, and that is actually the intention just to continue that.

Yeah, go back to the previous slide.

I mean, I didn't let me the small print makes it kind of hard to read.

But as I look at the special enforcement, you actually haven't, with the exception of 20 2025, you haven't hired anybody in six years.

Because we haven't got any interest in the postings.

That was the issue that we were having from the beginning and from all those years.

So you see the serials because even though we were having vacancies and we were promoting them, and we were trying to recruit people were just not coming and being interested into actually part of specialist personality.

That is not a bad suggestion.

We can look a little bit more.

I know like there was some recommendations maybe a year ago that we were discussing about how to use external like resources or professional services from that part, more in a part-time position site.

So that is definitely something that we can special enforcement when when when we get a complaint about you could prepare 40 unit buildings heating system failing in the middle of December.

They're the ones that respond to that.

That's correct.

That's a big response.

It is.

Yeah.

And you're just to be clear, no one's applying, or you're getting recruits that just don't even make meet the basic.

At the beginning, it was no one was applying.

That's why we did the cleanup right now, even that we're having some that don't have all the requirements that we're looking, we are being willing to bring them on board and continue the training, and that's probably the ones that we just recently have two promotions that were moved from commercial to um special enforcement with that purpose.

Wow, okay.

Mr.

Chair?

Yeah, all of them called for that uh training piece for the first level.

Um you said it's a new program.

Are you all working with employee to help upscale folks?

Or is it just your department?

Let me see if I understood the question.

You're talking about if we're asking um with other workers or of other employees outside of the Milwaukee to bring um staff or no.

Jess, since we already have um an entity that we work with as a city for employment and for training purposes, which is employee Milwaukee.

Um, I'm asking for those uh two levels of uh credentials that are necessary for that entry level inspection.

Um I asked if you guys offer that um to other internal city employees so that they may now be um eligible to become inspectors, and you say yes, a new program.

I'm asking, do you work with employment Milwaukee on that credential training at all, or do you just do it internally?

It's it's just internal.

So um our our method of you know bringing in new recruits and then getting them trained would would be um the intern program that we have.

So we have five approved positions for our interns, those are under the outreach and training manager, so uh kind of revamping that program and really looking at what skill sets those individuals need to both attain those certifications and then move into a position of a code enforcement inspector uh with the goal of you know they can get those certifications or get started on those when they're interns, and then really kind of seamlessly move into the role of a code enforcement inspector and hopefully already have those certifications.

If not, anyone that we recruit generally has one year to obtain those certifications.

It might be some other ways to get some more city um employees who might be interested in getting some upscales um to help fill some of those positions.

I would encourage you to work with DRA employee um on how some other ways um there might be to do that.

Additionally, when inspectors leave, do you all do exit interviews?

And if you do, have you found any uh specific things?

Yes, good question.

Um, most of the like I was mentioning, a lot of the vacancies that we have are being promotionals and or transfers.

That said, the few ones that were like because of leaving, we have two medical that were medical reasons, and the other one were like relocation, like personal relocations to other um jurisdictions.

Okay.

Um recently I know that um and over time, there have been occasional uh safety issues that have arisen for inspectors.

Uh do you find um safety being a major concern of inspectors?

And if so, what have you done and what have you offered uh for um inspectors to help them feel more safe and being able to execute the job?

Yeah, absolutely.

Um, you know, we we certainly address those incidents when they come up and evaluate you know what happens.

Uh is there anything that we could do to prevent this?

Are there steps that we could take, you know uh from our perspective, but also to better educate and prepare our field staff to have awareness in the field.

Um recently, earlier this year, um we offered a multi-day uh code enforcement inspector safety training that all of our field staff uh took.

Um very robust in-depth training, um, covering a multitude of topics, um, so hoping that that would prepare them with the skill set that they need, um, and then making sure that you know these inspectors that we're bringing on board that a key component of you know coming into this role is is having that field awareness and that safety training and understanding how to safely operate in the field and perform this job.

And my last question for now, um Mr.

Chair, um of the inspector positions, how many how many managers are there currently or supervisory and managerial the leadership how many so 17 inspector positions, seven our field, and how many positions are managed supervisory leadership?

So um we have uh commercial division manager, residential division manager, there are five supervisor positions within the residential division, and there are two three to count them, three supervisors within the commercial division.

Um I think that covers yes.

Of those, is it eight or the ten?

For what you're saying, is it eight or ten?

For the supervisors or so within uh commercial, there's there's three supervisors, so there's two commercial code enforcement inspectors, supervisors, and then one environmental supervisor.

And then for residential, there are five supervisors that will receive those that division, okay?

Yeah, different teams.

Um so of those eight, what is the umar city both in gender and race?

Um I I don't have that offhand, but I can get that information for you and have you provide it.

Thank you.

Is the code enforcement inspector an actual job classification?

Or are there multiple, like there's inspector one, inspector two, inspector three kind of thing.

Is that a little bit of everything?

Yes, there is a code enforcement inspector, is the title that's it within that, which is like what we're working for the last two years with DER.

It's the actual career progression, which is level one, level two, level three, four, which is based on certifications, time of inspection, you know, like expertise and um qualifications overall.

So that's kind of like a design that we've been having to really impulse like the progression within the department.

Because I think this so the starting range for inspector one is fifty-seven thousand dollars a year with all those certifications.

So that would be the entry level for our residential or commercial code enforcement inspector.

Uh those individuals will be given one year to obtain those primary certifications.

The basics, yeah.

Yeah, and then the top end of that is is for special enforcement inspectors.

So that's not just for residents.

And just to be clear, where does someone can anyone just Google where do I get my certification and go pay to get it done?

Or is it is this easy to find?

Yes, we have like this is all to the Department of Safety and Professional Services.

Okay.

Um we can do two routes.

You can either obtain it through the state, or like um other folks um have the um through the ICC International Code Council.

So what they do is like they obtain the certifications through that process and then go to the state and kind of like exchange.

Well, how long does it take?

Does it depend on the person?

It all depends on the person, and we have half folks that have been really brilliant and do it in three months, and we have half inspectors that have been needing more than a year to complete ESOL base and experience experiences and methods of study and help and mentoring.

Is an impediment to recruiting for all the study that has to be done and the potential hazards involved.

Do they still use their own vehicles or do they use city vehicles?

Yes, they do.

Yes, they do.

Okay.

And there's a vehicle allowance or their mileage or yes, yes, in my own.

Okay.

Because you know again, I think we mentioned it to one of the other committees.

You know, I keep seeing ads on TV for we energy's ground men, and that's 3250 an hour.

Yeah.

And that's basically a laborer with no certification.

The qualifications are a clean driving record, the willing to work hard and willing to work in bad weather.

Period.

Those are the qualifications for 64,000 a year job started.

Yeah.

So I mean, have has there been any consideration of getting these reclassified these uh the these inspector grades?

The one, two, three, and four.

I think I don't know the last time the positions were evaluated and reclassified.

Um our focus currently has been on moving forward with the career progression so that folks in these roles have an opportunity to advance by pursuing certifications and uh you know attaining performance measures.

Mr.

Chair?

Yeah.

Just on average from the moment someone they start with DR, correct?

For the moment they start with DR to you hire what is that average time look like?

Yeah, right.

Well, that all depends.

Um, like one of the examples that we were having right now are like vacancies that started in December.

Usually it takes around three months, you know, between filling vacancy and doing the process for the job posting, then the job posting is done.

We have to wait a little bit um for getting the the list and organizing um why what it is the next step of interviewing and raking and everything.

It could be easily from three months to nine months, and wouldn't be surprised if a year, but it all depends on on you can hire anybody around here.

The processes correct.

Uh we have plenty to go through, and I want to make sure that we're addressing it.

So um there was a question of inspection average years um with of service, uh commercial enforcement is in roughly five years.

I do want to mention that there's a saying for us that anybody that it's more than six years, seven years that when it actually mature inspector is.

Um, so just wanted to give you a heads up on that side.

So commercial we have high round 5.6, environmental code enforcement 11 years, neighborhood improvement program nine, residential code enforcement nine, special code enforcement um inspectors 14, and construction traits nine.

With that, um we're gonna jump really quick to complain volume, just something that also where Smorland was interested in covering, and we're just gonna have Mike Miss Manion um to go and cover those.

All right.

Uh so the first slide here and illustrates our annual complaint volume overall, and it tracks it from 2020 through 2026 year to date.

So we're generally averaging averaging around 35 to 40,000 uh complaints annually.

This is a breakdown with the six-year average by Aldermanic district.

Um see it varies quite widely across the city as far as complaint volume and and where um our higher volumes are versus our lower volumes.

The slide just illustrates uh some of the increases in complaint volume that we've dealt with uh compared to that six-year average.

So for 2025, these are increases in percentage.

Um what it does is it really shows that you know we are seeing a higher volume of complaints across the board.

Uh residential showed a decrease, but had a seven percent increase in the previous year.

Um so this is department wide, but it kind of shows that you know things continue to increase as far as volume goes for for the work that we do so this one breaks down.

Can you explain administrative?

I mean, what does that entail?

So that would be uh property recording, uh things that are handled in the back office.

So in order to track those to make sure the people comply, we we create an ENF record for those.

Um so making sure that people are recording their properties correctly so that we have a contact that we can reach should we need to for issues that come up.

Okay.

So this is a Mr.

Chair, who's up to Oliver and Stamper.

Yeah, thank you, thank you.

Uh, regarding the complaints, are those all uh resident driven or or and do we track um inspector violations versus complaints?

For example, I make a complaint that is right recorded versus an inspector out saying a complaint.

I mean, seeing an issue, sorry.

This uh the the numbers here would include all of our complaints.

Um I don't know if we would track self-initiated versus non-self-initiated, uh, but I think that's something we could do.

But do we do we have that?

Is that is that being done though?

I don't believe there's a field to track that currently.

Is it a complaint driven process?

Yeah, I mean everything is so if an inspector initiated a complaint, it would follow the same path, the creation of an ENF record.

Um I don't think we have a field that indicates this is self-initiated, but I think that's something we could easily do.

Okay, yeah, I'll be interested in that.

Is that even happening?

Oh, absolutely.

I mean, we encourage our staff to know when you're out there, you know, don't focus just on the issue, kind of take the blinders off and look at it holistically to make sure that we're there were complaints in the past that that wasn't happening.

That's why I asked.

Yeah.

And that's that's why I'm sorry, um, I'm missing.

But that's why I asked that question, I asked too, because there was a period of time where you know people are given their zones and you repeatedly recheck check those zones.

So whether it was complaint driven or not, they would initiate stuff.

Then it was a period of time where it was like, no, it's only complaint driven.

So people we would get called.

Uh mobs would get calls where they were written up, but a neighbor wasn't.

And it's like, well, if they was over here they saw that too, why didn't they write them up too?

It's like, no, they were called because uh somebody reported you, and so that's what they came out to do.

So are you sitting before us telling us now that your instruction to them is to is to not just be initiate uh yeah, to also initiate?

Yeah, there is no there's no instruction to only focus on the issue that you're called out there for in the complaint.

If you see something that's a violation, then inspector should be writing that up.

Mr.

Chair.

Yeah, all the on that point.

Um somebody within DNS told me that was Wisconsin state law prohibits an inspector from visually seeing an inspection that has not been reported to DNS and initiating a inspection or complaint.

The inspection or complaint cannot come from the inspector, is that true?

I I don't believe that's correct.

I can verify with the city attorney, but I I think that an inspector that observes a violation could be the complaint for violation.

All right.

Okay, it's all no.

Sure.

Yeah, older and stamper, go ahead.

Yeah, so okay, so as you survey areas, are we our inspectors assigned to particular districts or zones?

For example, if inspector comes on a block and sees an issue and comes back and sees the issue or another issue, is it just that inspector?

Uh so it would depend on the nature of the complaint.

So if assuming that it's it's say we have a residential inspector that's there for a residential complaint, it would be on them to write up and another residential violation that they saw if it were something outside of their scope.

Um they could refer that to a different division.

Does that answer your questions?

Uh well, um, for example, I'm just trying to see if you have the same inspector surveying the same area on a regular routine.

Yeah, generally our inspectors are assigned to certain districts.

Yes, that is for Element Stamper.

So they are um all assigned by districts.

Uh we use geocodes.

Um it all depends, all the traits, all the inspections are assigned by districts.

When there's a survey or neighborhood walk, um, what being instructed to inspectors is like they have to track all the properties that were in discussion, so then they can bring them back and entry on those kind of like observations into the system.

So just wanted to add that um to your answer to your question.

Thank you.

Uh just on the commercial inspection.

Is there uh a violation for a property being care of abandoned and boarded for over five, six, seven, ten years?

Like what are we doing about daily inspection of abandoned commercial buildings for years?

So uh a building like that should be part of our vacant building program, uh which should get an exterior inspection two times a year if there are outstanding violations um on that property when we inspect, they are charged enhanced reinspection fees.

Okay, okay.

Um do we properties that have been sitting that need to be condemned and they're privately owned?

Uh was part of a inspection reoccurring process.

So any property buildings will know uh go ahead, I'm sorry.

If you if you um if you can send me those addresses or I'm we're happy to look and see what the status of those is if they haven't been evaluated by our our condemnation team, we we can take a look at them and try to reach out to gain entry or to see what the status is and see if they meet the criteria for for a raise order.

Okay, and how and what's the highest fine we have available.

Um I think well generally if a property is commercial vacant building, what is our highest ability to find?

I'd have to check to see what the six-month inspection fee is if you have outstanding violations, but um I I can get back to you on that to verify it.

But um I I can get back to you on that to verify it.

But our monthly reinspection, if a property is on monthly reinspections and it has outstanding violations, the fine is $500, roughly or $560 a month, I believe.

Okay.

That's good.

And that's separate than residential.

That's just commercial, correct?

So that would be any vacant building, or I'm sorry, any building that is on monthly reinspections that has been commercial and residential have the same inspection fees?

Reoccurring inspection penalty fees?

Yes.

Uh is that right?

Shouldn't commercial receive a higher fee.

We could talk about that.

Okay.

I think it would depend on the nature of the I would support, I will support vacant buildings that are commercial.

Yeah, okay.

Okay, thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Mr.

Chair.

Yeah, I mean, I'll I'll say it again like please help us really ramp up covering costs, doing what we need to do.

We we get plenty of nuisance properties, especially the ones where if I from my experience, I'll think about 20% of the nuisance properties are probably new that come online versus you know they've changed hands and they're become a new nuisance.

The other 80 percent are chronic nuisance folks.

I got some on national that special enforcement was out there six years ago, eight years ago, and we're still having problems with them.

And I I think we have to figure out a way where the penalties get worse or stronger, tougher for these chronic nuisance that we that we're having problem problems with them.

They'll get written up, we'll get real tough, there'll be a period well they'll you'll see no vacant vehicles with out tags and the building having some decent upkeep, and then there's a level of comfort and it goes right back to we got to find a way to those chronic votes they to get to feel it.

All right, keep going with the slides here.

So this one just illustrates the year over year changes in volume broken down by section.

Um special enforcement is in green.

Umang is our animal complaints, blue is our trade section.

Uh residential is not part of this because on the next slide you saw based on the volume.

If we add that in, it kind of just distorts the overall scope.

So um, but generally increasing in across the board as far as volume of complaints.

You mean the green is special enforcement?

Mr.

Chair.

The green on on this slide with that says no residential is is special enforcement complaint volume.

Wow, and that's the place where you have the biggest vacancy rate.

Yeah.

Don't we see a problem there?

I mean it.

Right.

I think I think I think the high vacancy rate is partially due to the lower number of positions, right?

So the percentage is gonna read higher.

Yeah.

Okay.

Mr.

Chair.

Yeah, Alvin Samper.

Yeah, thank you.

On animal complaints, uh, how many pit bulls can one house have?

And what if they're not chained up or not locked up?

Is that a is that a violation?

Come on.

Yeah, animals can't be left to to run at large.

Um, there is no breed-specific limitations on animals.

Um, but I'm happy to kind of get into the specifics of that.

You literally have amendments coming forward at the next council meeting on that.

Right, yeah, we've been working through um you know, phase one and phase two of animals, uh, and then phase three is forthcoming.

So, but I thought there were a two-pit bull limit.

That's not accurate.

There's a there's a two, there's a the dog is limited to I'm saying the limitation for animals is based on the number of the animals, it is no longer breed specific.

So there is no no specifics to limitations on the number of pit bulls that you could have.

It's it's the number of dogs before you would need a fancier's license um or other provisions.

Well, how many dogs can one person have then?

No more than three.

Okay, so three is the limit.

Yes.

Okay.

It's amazingly complicated, Alderman Stamper, trust me.

We've been going over this with with some difficulty, getting our arms around it's difficult to understand and to apply, I'm sure.

But let me ask you this the inspectors, are they protected from a pit bull bite?

So uh part of our safety training is animal awareness.

So we we train them, you know, to be aware when they're approaching a property, not to go into backyards with closed gates, you know, to be aware if there are signs.

Um if there's animals at large we really can't prepare them for that.

Um we do have specific inspectors that investigate bites, um, so they have a higher level of awareness of having to deal with animals on a regular basis.

And then you call MADIC.

Oh, correct.

Yeah, if if there are animals loose, we call them right away.

Or the or the police do.

Okay, okay.

But no specific but there's no specific training like for the protection from a dog, like a pit bull in the no, we don't have specific training for that.

Okay, okay, thank you.

What do you do after someone's been shot at?

Sorry, what?

What do you do after an inspector has been shot at?

There's a few different levels.

Um one, first of all, is definitely applied and see what the situation, how is the person doing?

Um we usually put them in an administrative leave while there's an investigation.

Uh overall, we have the communications with the police department in regards to the incidents, as they are the ones who actually investigate that site.

We actually communicate to when there's any kind of like violence or threat.

We have a communication in internal communication, which is the one call.

We send the email to everybody, just under 95 where is the areas that they should be avoiding at that time.

So it just depends too on what it's the case particularly, but we are always very aware of what they are and inform everybody else, and then sometimes we also have a post um event in where we sit down, we have debriefs, we have conversations, we have bring EAP as well to those kind of conversations.

So it all depends on the magnitude of the event.

So is um you know the potential for counseling a therapy or anything like that made available to the employee and to all staff after such an incident?

Yeah, absolutely.

I uh the last time it happened, we brought in EAP and and made that away available to to staff if they needed to talk about the incident, even the ones that you know weren't directly involved in it.

Do you look at any changes in um in how you send out staff or things that you all do that uh may it could work differently to prevent um or to at least help staff deal with such occurrences?

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, if something like this happens, it makes us take a step back and really look at everything, you know.

Did we prepare our staff or are we preparing our staff to best you know go out in the field and safely navigate, you know, in these scenarios.

Can I see um off of this meeting today?

Can I see a copy of the correspondence that y'all send out to staff when my the maybe what you did the last time um uh a shooting or something violent um occurred?

Sure.

Or shots fired, I should say.

How many incidents do we have like that a year?

Where inspectors are shot at?

I mean, that's specific reference.

Very random, uh, maybe one this year, honestly.

Um I think they might be probably more like random threats.

Well that's the same thing.

Probably that's the one that which is like over the phone, but um events like shot at very, very, very, very random.

And honestly, in the last few years, we just have this one.

Okay.

But they are in the vicinity where they're close to shots fired and things of that nature, where every yes, that maybe it's not them, but they're in an unsafe environment.

Correct.

And every time that we have a notification like that, we send a correspondence to everybody to avoid those places.

Sounds like the dogs are a bigger threat than getting shot at.

Depends on what neighborhoods you are.

Okay.

All right, so you can do nothing.

We're just gonna jump really quick into complaint tracking and accountability.

There were some questions of how do we manage aldermanic service requests.

So once we receive a complaint, a referral or a request, um, which is typically to supervisors of managers, aldermatic um contact, either supervisors of managers.

We have instructions and a policy that we need to respond between 24 to 48 hours for that initial response and acknowledgement of the communication.

Then from there we do the referrals to the appropriate DNS division for investigation.

A ENF is created uh within three to five business days inspection inspector, it's um uh doing an investigation is expecting to do an investigation.

And follow up with the results of the investigation and action taken between five to ten business days.

And subsequent status updates provided are our open requests within 24 hours if you're needing more from that perspective.

Inspection metrics and key performance indicators.

Inspector metrics and K performance indicators that we've been working on for the performance measurements for inspections divisions is the number of average daily stops.

How many inspections are we performing daily?

Complaint response time.

How long is taking us to respond to those complaints?

Percentage of fire inspection completed.

Are we hitting our percentage targets?

Volume of overdue orders.

Are we performing timely follow-ups and enforcement?

Order review prior to mailing or core referral.

Are we issuing orders correctly?

And inspection results tracking, which is advisory issues, no entries, partials, just trying to get ahead on that side.

With the complaints that we have received, I wanted to just zoom in in the average days to actual inspection or initial inspection back in 2023.

We were at 14 days to actually do that initial inspection in 2024, seven days.

And from 2025 and as today, we are steady with six days of response from the initial complaint to go and do an investigation.

Overdue orders are those that are kind of on that limbo stage, and there have been no follow-ups.

I'm not sure you understand the range of 30 to 60 percent.

What's 30?

What's 60?

Is that categories of orders?

Is that the volume of volume of orders that are overdue?

So if you have a 30-day compliance timeline, then this order would be you know 30 days past that date or 90 days be a 30-day overview.

That's what that does.

So ensuring that inspectors are going back out to follow up on the orders that we've issued to take further enforcement action or make contact to try and get these issues resolved.

So the way it is reading, it's like, for example, in 2023, 89% of all the orders issued through residential were overdue.

As today, 39% of those orders are overdue.

That's a significant um decrease and cleanup.

So that's kind of like how we're looking at the data today.

Okay.

Animals, we have had a significant increase in bites, investigations, and appeals.

We have around 650 additional fire inspections that we're doing annually, vacant building inspections, around 2,000 biannual exteriors inspections, short-term rentals, 325 licenses.

So that's where enforcement we were doing this year.

Um community partners, neighborhood efforts, additional outreach and inspection volume, and targeted enforcement prosecution.

We are currently working with the city attorney's office to prosecute no complaint property owners.

Once we are kind of running out of the tools that we have on enforcement, now we have um uh a regular standing meetings to discuss with city attorney and recommend those properties to them to see what else we can um do for enforcement.

Moving forward, ongoing process improvements, um, broader training opportunities on DNS operations and processes internally, streamlining program inspections processes is a continuous effort.

Um being mindful that inspection staff capacity, we show you the numbers today.

We show you how much we're doing.

I think like now is just the time to really start evaluating that if we continue to add more, we don't know how many of more spectors we're gonna be in need of.

So just be mindful on that side.

And we continue to explore technology to create processes, um, store, retrieve, and transmit communication and information.

With that, that concludes our communication uh presentation.

Any questions?

Based on this, there were two files that were to be scheduled today, but Alderman Stamper pulled them back, and they involved basically a targeted inspection regimen for certain specific neighborhoods.

And I guess it wasn't ready to be heard today, but judging from what I've heard today, do we have the capacity to do what's being proposed in those two files?

Great question.

Um right now, the scale that we are looking, and this is why we still want to like shape a little bit more the proposals, are looking at very, very small scale right now.

Like honestly, like I I think like for us, we're looking at 200 properties in a span of two years, you know.

Like the pilot program is have to start very small if indeed we wanted to have a successful program now um in the near future um and be established.

But for now, that's why we're starting really small, just to see what other processes or what other needs have gonna be needed or evaluated it down the road.

Okay, and that's why it's called a pilot program so far.

But great question.

Thank you.

Okay, anybody else?

Um I ask this question because when you know we put in um a complaint to DNS from my office, uh we follow up Alderman Stamper, oh sorry.

Yeah.

Call in DNS to file a complaint.

What is the requirement that an inspector has to communicate with um an alder?

And like what's the expectation?

I know they have office hours.

Um and I ask that question because you know, sometimes you know, we'll put a request in orders are frequently or not orders, violations are frequently missed.

Sometimes it'll say no violation.

Sometimes one violation will be listed, the second and third would be missed.

So we try to reach out to those inspectors to get more information, and sometimes they don't respond.

Um sometimes they respond after three weeks of hounding them.

Uh so what is the expectation from an inspector to communicate?

Maybe we should ask them what is the preferred method of communication?

Because I have always in 24 years, I always go through either the section head, the deputy, or the chief.

That's correct.

I've never dealt with inspectors directly.

That's correct.

Um, um, I think we have echoed this for a long, you know, for a while, especially since 2023.

Our preference is like you do the communication either directly with manager or supervisor right now.

We're actually after we did um we did an aid training for your all for your new aids, and one of my recommendations and requests was that um we are gonna be developing after that training.

I thought like about developing a profile sheet for your district and where you would have the actual supervisors that are assigned to your district in a specific.

The preference method have always been talk first with leadership.

The reality is, and that's what we wanted to show today.

Inspectors are busy, and inspectors are on the field, inspectors are like managing a lot of different things, right?

And specifically on the case.

That's why I'll continue to mention supervisors are gonna be probably more suitable to do that kind of tracking.

No, and I understand that now, but I did in before.

So my frustration is I'm reaching out, I'm reaching out and I'm reaching out, and if they're checking their emails, they're choosing to ignore those emails.

Yeah, and we actually did a directive recently too to remind everybody um what is the process.

Um in a case that an inspector would have received an email or a request from an elder, the expectation is that that inspector actually reports to the supervisor, and that way we can engage them in the conversation.

If that hasn't been happening, then we would need to go and zoom in a specifically of what are those inspectors that are not following uh our directives.

Okay.

Uh my next question is is tied to certificates of occupancy.

As you know, I've I've dealt with that quite frankly in District 5.

So in the last two months, I found three businesses that were operating without certificates of occupancy.

And each of those businesses have had DNS enforcement and they've been issued orders for operating a business without the certificate of occupancy.

So at what point does DNS get the police because my understanding is the police department is the only entity that we have to shut down the business.

At what point does DNS get the police department involved instead of just continuously writing these orders because all three of these businesses I've gotten shut down?

Um and I feel like that doesn't happen unless I'm initiating it.

Yeah, I I think um certainly the bring us the the worst of the worst that you have if they don't have occupancy, they continue to operate, and it's it's an egregious situation.

Um I'm not familiar with the process for the police being able to shut down a business.

Our focus um with these persistently problematic non-compliant properties has been to work with the city attorney's office and you know try and use the legal avenues to take further enforcement action to actually file suit against these owners and take them to court to hold them accountable.

And that's the slow process.

Commissioner, MPD is the only entity we have, correct, to shut these businesses down.

So my question is at what point does DNS reach out to MPD or is that on each alder to do that?

Who has that responsibility?

What's that?

I'm not sure if the police have they do.

They've done it three times for me in the last month.

Are these license premises as well?

Or yes, that require Bozo approval.

Okay.

So I think I think the license may bring a different element into it.

Just not having a certificate of occupancy, I'm not sure is is grounds for them to shut down the business, but I'm not familiar with that.

But the authority they have with the license and the ability to shut down the business.

And nothing changes.

They just continue operating.

And we've raised the question: well, what happens if a license is non-renewed?

And the answer I get is the only remedy we have is to go to court and file an eviction action.

Well, for mine without certificate of occupancy, which is legally required, MPD has shut those businesses down.

So what I'm hearing is you you guys have nothing to do with that, and you don't know what the process is.

But you will just look and to it.

I think bring it in a good point.

And um, we've been working with you on the last few years.

For eight years, and I've been seeing the same things.

For sure.

And you know, I've had one that has continuously been written order since 2025.

Yeah.

You're operating without a certificate, you know what I mean?

Um nothing happens.

So I I mean I'm interested in knowing what the internal process is, but it seems like it would make sense that that you guys would get others involved instead of just continuously writing those orders, because as we know, those orders don't mean much to some individuals.

Yeah, we will use any tools that we have to try and address these problems, certainly.

But what is the process for?

To if uh if an establishment is not operating with um appropriate occupancy, what is your process?

So we we initially would issue orders telling them that they need to obtain occupancy.

Um if they persistently don't follow through on that process, we would send that order to court.

Eventually, if they continue to not comply, it would go to monthly reinspections.

If it's something egregious and it's a public safety hazard, we could tap the city attorney's office earlier on in the process.

What are we defining as persistent?

And how are we defining egregious?

Um I guess it depends on the activity that's that's occurring as part of this.

Whatever it I I guess it would depend on the circumstances.

So I don't I don't have a definition.

Differentiate that?

No, I mean generally if if these issues are largely problematic, they rise to the level of you know the supervisory staff, the managers of the commissioner's office awareness.

Um, and then we'll bring in the city attorney's office to see what other options we might have legally to address the problems.

Mr.

Chair, yes, but is there a fine?

All the snapper.

Yes.

Fine for operating without an occupancy.

Yes.

Yeah, so there's reinspection fees, we can issue citations.

Um sometimes that doesn't move forward anyway.

Shut it down.

That's the only way.

Exactly.

Yeah.

That's the only way.

I mean, to me, the way I see it is you need a certificate of occupancy.

It's like it's too many gray areas.

Is there safety threats?

Like, no, you need a certificate of occupancy to operate, period.

I agree.

So let me let me ask you this.

Uh where is it marked for accountability when it does, when they do try to get their occupancy permit to say, hey, you've been operating elite in the process.

So it would depend on if it's a permitted use or not.

Um generally um if something is a permitted use and someone pursues that occupancy after they've received orders, they would have some kind of inspection depending on you know what it's for.

Um if there's an additional administrative process, like they need BOSA, um so they're they're pursuing this, uh they need to get BOSA for you know, a special use approval.

Um we have a group that would weigh in and say, hey, this business has been persistently non-compliant.

Um these are the existing violations or the outstanding violations.

Um so it kind of depends on on the scenario and what they're proposing to do or what they need occupancy for.

But is the penalty satisfied before they receive an occupancy permit?

If there are outstanding violations, um, depending on what they are, they could prohibit them from obtaining occupancy.

Right.

So is that is that considered uh a penalty before you can open up an occupation before operating without an occupancy permit?

Yeah, yeah, I mean, if you want to open a business and you can't because you haven't satisfied these conditions or corrected these code violations, I think that that in addition with reinspection fees and citations potentially um would be a penalty.

But I think um Art of Man Stan Review on my, I think he's also speaking of if they were operating um and having people in there and they didn't have an occupancy, and then they come back to get their occupancy.

Is there any kind of penalty for them having previously operated without it?

Other, yeah, that's exactly right.

Like for example, you're operating without a permit.

Now you go get your permit.

Okay, you should have paid your fine first.

Right.

So for um for anything that requires permits, um there could be a multi-permit fee associated with that.

I don't know that we've explored that as an option for occupancy.

So if you're persistently non-compliant for so if you do electrical work without a permit, we can charge you a quad fee.

Um I think that's a good question if that's an option for occupancy as well.

You know, if you have continually non-complied with what we're asking you to do, why shouldn't you also pay some additional penalty?

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

And Otterman Westmoreland, I you asked these questions, and it sparked something in me that is partially due to what you're talking about, but partially do with a whole bunch of other occupancy related DNS stuff.

And Commissioner, you you know, in my district, like the 901 East Keith thing, and in my conversation with the police, I'm like, but I ain't even have occupancy.

So you should have been able to go in and it was all these legal reasons why they said they couldn't go in.

Yeah, um, even though they knew it didn't have occupancy.

Um, and it took over a year and the city attorney getting involved in a whole bunch of stuff to be able to um to shut that situation down.

I do think it's a lot of uh an unclear and unresolved um issues around who has the power to do what when it comes to occupancy or lack thereof um for buildings, establishments, or whatever.

And I do think we should try to act add clarity where we can't, but it seems like at least from my dental 901, that a lot of it's based in um statutory stuff um and having clarity for both police and DNS um as to what can be done.

But I do think it's something that should be looked at and should be um we need to be fighting for something to make it more clear.

Because it was because when you talk about you know how bad the problem is or whatever, the risk of you know, at least for me, what was happening at that building with the large sums of people they were inviting in there, and the environmental issues, electrical issues, and all that stuff that building had on the grace of God that I think nobody got um hurt, but to listen to police say we know it's no occupancy, we know they're not supposed to be having nothing, and we see the people going in, and we can't um do anything until XYZ is kind of um crazy, you know.

How did the police shut these businesses down?

Would you know how they physically did it?

They just yeah, they go, they go there and they let them know you don't have a stock.

Or to place up the case.

No, I think they just advise you don't have your certificate of occupancy, you can't be operating.

We're letting you know you can't be operating.

Or else what?

Uh good question.

Owners finally chose to comply.

But all two have closed without you know incident, and they're working on the third right now.

Um but it just I mean, and this is a topic for a different committee, but to me it's wild that you can approve a license that license committee that does not have a bozo approval for that use.

You're not supposed to be able to do that.

Well, in front of yours, you're not supposed to do that.

And it's been happening a lot.

Well, that's that's not the tech of a licensing.

Yep.

So I think the recent ordinance change that was put into place was intended as a stopgap for that.

So um and I think once once we're all in the same system, once licensing's on a cellar, I think that that communication, that visibility of both records and coordinating those processes will be much better.

But we literally this last licensing hearing sent back something in my district because at the table the licensing manager realized that it had not gone through buzzer the way it was supposed to.

So we held it and sent it back.

But technically they're supposed to look at that licensing is before it ever gets put on a schedule.

And if it needs a buzzer, it's supposed to go do that first.

And we went through that process because for years we were doing exactly what you're talking about.

We're about and all stuff that didn't even get approved at Barba.

So it's like why are we wasting our time with these things?

So that was a process that was supposed to be set up.

I do think it'll be easier once the systems are make more sense.

But you're right, lately some things have been slipping through.

I noticed that at the last hearing.

Well, one last thing I have for you guys is um what do you need from the council to make things better?

We can continue the conversations.

I I think like today we have really good points that I would definitely like to evaluate more and have a follow-up, you know, one-on-one and continue doing this conversations, but I think like what we appreciate of today was for all of us to understand that we are doing an amazing work.

Yes, there's some flaws here and there that we're gonna continue to improve.

But it was just a good point for us to really express like a we have the interest and the commitment with the CD of Milwaukee.

Second, we have been working tremendously in improving um our processes and everything.

I continue to talk about like it's not like we're racing the bar.

We're literally looking at our jobs and our roles and responsibilities from the basic perspective, and we're looking for accountability from our staff um to stay with that.

So um it was just continue this kind of conversations, honestly.

And I will probably have a better list down the road from the case.

Inspectors use their personal vehicles, right?

Yes.

Is that is that a um a concern for some people?

Do they leave because you don't want to use their personal vehicles or the personal vehicle breaks down?

Would it help if DNS had you know vehicles?

Yes, yes and and no in regards of like how we have affect.

I did not as um when we were doing recruitment, for example, for our electrical inspectors, like maybe a year and a half ago, we have a lot of folks coming from different jurisdictions, right?

And once we would explain you have to drive your car in the city of Milwaukee, them not familiarized with city of Milwaukee, they will go like, yeah, not really.

Thank you so much for the opportunity.

So some people have choos chosen that side.

I not seeing that right now because it's very internal what we're doing, but from the comfort perspective of we do mileage for them, but think about like how the conditions are out there, maintenance of of the actual cars, that's that's the part in where um we continue to struggle a little bit from the staffing perspective.

Um really reimbursed for the current mileage.

It's mileage based on the running.

And they submit a mileage report weekly, monthly, daily, monthly.

Monthly.

And there's a portal for that, the a computer portal, so that's the same.

Yeah, so they do that through city time.

What do we pay them?

Like 30 cents a mile or 45 cents a mile.

I mean, I don't know what the current rate is.

I I I think it's between 30 and 40.

Yeah.

That's it.

Have we ever looked at switching over to uh vehicle fleet?

Which then we could we could track via GPS and they could have radios installed in the vehicles and other protection devices.

I mean I've heard discussion about it, but I've never I don't know that it's ever been explored um on a larger scale just because of I think the number of vehicles that we would we would need and then the you know the parking and maintenance and ongoing capital costs that come with that.

So I don't know that anyone's ever taken a deep dive into you know what that would cost to stand up and maintain uh Mr.

Chair, and just on the follow-up with the coordination.

Um I'll be probably doing communication file because I have convened Boza, DNS, licensing, city attorney.

We tried to get to to the bottom of looking at how these systems should be talking to each other, can be talking to each other, and uh I'll share that with the rest of the council.

Anyone interested can follow up with me.

Um I know that the license division is yet to come fully aboard on with a seller that would make some of this easier, but we still have to coordinate how licensing and boza and DNS are talking to one another because we're seeing these licenses get held over, they're supposed to go to Bolsa before they get to licensing, some slip through the cracks.

We're realizing there's a lot of expired occupancies through Bolza that we're catching up with, or we only realize when there's complaint-driven um complaints and inspections that oh you don't have an occupancy.

I had a mechanic on 10th and Greenfield that didn't have one for almost two years and then remained open and was just getting fined every day for until he went to Bulls and straightened it out.

So we we we gotta get better at it and figure out how we coordinate all of that in a in a better way.

And I know you can't answer this, but both you know, Bose at License Division, not both being on the cellar.

Why is that even an excuse?

I you I can't answer that for them, but I will to your point though.

We made the pivot on licensing to make sure that they go through Bowser first some years ago.

I don't think it's really become a big issue until more recently of stuff slipping through.

So I do think for some years, even without being on the same system, there's been enough communication that for the most part, maybe not a hundred percent, but what we're seeing now, like it was not to this level at all.

So there was a way at some point that communication was enough, that it wasn't a whole bunch of stuff that needed Bowza still coming before um before us.

So I would to your point, something has happened more recently that I think is it's a breakdown somewhere.

Um to where you're seeing more of the stuff get through license.

And the other thing is a lot of occupancies have requirements on them, right?

And lots of times those occupancies, the establishments lapse on those the biggest violator for me are auto body or mechanic businesses or even car dealerships where you cannot have any cars on the street, they'll do that for a while, then slowly you'll see cars that they're working on in the public right-away that shouldn't be there.

Right.

And it isn't until people complain that you're violating your occupancy.

And for licensing purposes, you can get approved, because you know how they ask you if you're holding something.

They say holding occupancy all the time.

Right.

Um, but that also means even if we approve it, it shouldn't be released until that occupancy is satisfied.

And and that's not happening, but hopefully, I mean, not I don't think it's an excuse, but there is excuse that they're both using the seller piece, but I think once that gets cleaned up, talk about workload, I think that helps you guys out.

Yeah, well, looking forward for that.

We also working a lot in revamping some of the Acela um kind of loops, including the public portal too, just for better navigation as well.

So work coming.

Cool.

Okay, we're all good.

Yep, thank you.

I do have one last question.

I'm sorry.

Go ahead.

Um during budget, there was a whole bunch of conversation about condemnation because of the lack of um demolitions that were that had taken place.

Um and it was arguments over the money that we were allotting and all of that kind of thing, you probably recall.

Um, but you all I think gave your word that you knew the condemnations would likely increase, and you working with DCD and blah blah blah blah blah.

I wanted to know um, are we where are we on track for the year uh for condemnations?

And I also wanted to know um who's in charge of the condemnation stop currently.

I think we could provide you with a report that shows kind of where we're at, what we've received from DCD.

Um, if you're with us following up on that.

Uh currently the condemnation section is is under our construction trades division manager, so we have a supervisor in place.

Uh we have staff uh performing those inspections, um, but that has moved from commercial to to construction for alignment purposes.

What does that mean?

So the the condemnation inspectors are construction inspectors essentially.

So the I I think the thought behind moving them there was to have better universality with those inspectors, so uh they should have similar skill sets and similar awareness to be able to perform those duties.

Um I think they do that by being part of that that division.

I don't know if that needs to and that's new.

Yeah, previously it was under the commercial division.

So you said you'll give me the exact numbers.

Are we at a higher rate of demolitions than we were this time last year?

We continue to be at the same pace in regards to like the people that we are the um the properties that we got.

I I can honestly would say that I believe it's tomorrow we are meeting as a full staff to look just as specifically where we are in the numbers.

So I just don't want to like jump right away because we do have that communication tomorrow among all of us because we really want to start preparing on for budget and the next years.

Few things that are definitely changing that we're optimistic.

Um it's like also um we are having now a C performance indicator on the timeline when when we receive that property to demolition, full demolition.

I think like for a long long time, we were just like leaving the contractors just to manage on their own pace.

I think we'd um of the demolitions when we were expecting that if we have a contract with you, you should be demoing those within the three months of expectations.

So we're also changing some expectations from that perspective, so then we can like really move into getting that backlog um again.

Does DPW still have the internal?

Yes.

I was gonna ask that they're doing two categories of demolition.

And they're doing around two properties every week and a half.

I think they were doing city-owned properties, and then you bid out the work for privately owned properties.

Yes.

And that's still the division of labor that exists.

Okay.

I think they're busy on the books through August currently.

We can provide more detailed numbers.

But they're running out of properties or demolish?

No, no, I think they're they're gonna be busy through through through that okay.

There's more in the Mr.

Chair.

Yeah, all are more.

Um not on condemnation, but when request for you can supply after committee um interested in knowing whether the number of cases you're sending to Muni Court is going up or has gone up, and whether you're finding that that is uh a more necessary tool these days to move people off the dime.

Several businesses that just accept, you know, they'll pay the reinspection as the cost of doing business and and sometimes Muni Court is the only way to go to get them to change their ways.

So don't have to answer that here.

But if that's something you could look into and supply Alderman Westmoreland and the committee with, that'd be helpful.

We'll do.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right.

So uh Alderman Jackson moves to hold this item of the call of the chair and hearing no objections to order.

Thank you.

Good discussion.

Thanks.

Okay, moving on to item six, file 260299 resolution authorizing and directing a transfer of funds from the capital improvement advanced planning fund to a subaccount for comprehensive planning, land use, and zoning analysis, GIS mapping, printing, and other related administrative activities.

Tanya Fonseca, DCD.

This is our customary file that we use to allocate funds into our administrative account, which we use for various day-to-day expenses in the planning division.

This includes our graduate planning interns that work on current and long-range planning, our GIS and data subscriptions for mapping and data analysis, printing, and some other routine annual administrative items.

Okay, very good.

Any questions or comments on this?

Hearing none, Alderman Spiker moves the recommended option, hearing no objections to order moving on to item 7, file 260298.

Resolution approving amendment number one to the project plan and authorizing expenditures for tax incremental district number 62, which is the DRS power and control technologies TID in the first aldermanic district.

TID in the first Aldermanic district.

This is sponsored by Alderwoman Pratt.

There's also a request for a substitute.

Alderman Jackson moves to amend the file by introducing a substitute.

Hearing no objections to order, the substitute is before us.

All right.

Thank you.

Mr.

Chair, committee members, Alyssa Remington with the Department of City Development.

As you just stated, this is the First Amendment to TID 62, which is a two-parcel district located in the first Aldermanic district.

It's generally bounded by West Congress Street and West Hope to the north and the south, and between 30th and 31st streets.

This district was created back in 2005 for the purpose of improving facility efficiencies that would be required within a technology manufacturing business in order for them to remain competitive.

DRS improved their HVAC systems.

They completed window replacements, improved their fire protection systems, and they achieved a 30% reduction in building related operating expenses.

The city provided a 1.5 million dollar forgivable loan for these purpose and required DRS to maintain employment at this facility at 450 employees for a period of 10 years.

In addition, the TAD provided 150,000 for a residential assistance program for exterior repairs and upgrades to nearby homes and apartment buildings.

Now it this district is nearing the end of its statutory life, and we've worked collaboratively with the Department of Public Works as well as with the Alder Woman of the district to prioritize a list of possible public improvements that are located within the one-half mile uh boundary and propose the following projects.

So the Dr.

Howard Fuller Collegiate Academy opened its campus on North 29th Street in the fall of 2023 and has brought significant increased traffic to this single block of North 29th Street.

A top priority for the Alder Woman and is to see a significant quality increase in the condition of this street.

And we have budgeted a resurfacing project at 120,000 for North 29th.

In addition to that resurfacing, there are five high impact paving projects that will have a positive impact on the neighborhood at a cost of $570,000.

We propose these five high impact improvements to West Congress Street, West Courtland Avenue, North 31st, and North 20th.

There are two stretches on North Congress, so that's five, but on four streets as shown.

A couple of examples here.

North 31st and West Cortland.

The high impact paving project on West Congress between North 27th and North 30th also has the inclusion of speed humps as a traffic calming measure to increase public safety on that particular stretch.

Traffic calming measures are also going to be focused on North Hopkins, as it was recently identified as a high injury network corridor.

I'm sure most of you know what that is, but this is an area of our city where the most fatal and serious crashes occur or are predicted to occur if we don't make changes to the conditions of these streets.

We are looking to provide $370,000 to make improvements to the stretch of North Hopkins that's located within the boundary of this TID, as well as install raised crosswalks near the Lloyd Barbie Montessori school.

Those are indicated by the two dots, uh two blue dots on this map, and then the stretch of Hopkins that we are going to accommodate with this TID is this purple line in the top left of the map.

Um this map just generally identifies the locations of all the proposed improvements that I have put before you which is mostly concentrated in the northern section.

So pretty straightforward, but in total, we're proposing a million dollars in project costs as laid out more specifically here for raised crosswalks, traffic calming, high impact paving, and that resurfacing in addition to the speed humps.

When you look at the general feasibility of this TID amendment, the district's current value is about $6.8 million, and that equates an incremental value of just over $4 million.

We are generating just over $80,000 in annual increment, and with this future anticipated expenditure of a million dollars, we anticipate payoff of the TID by year 2027 or year 22 of the TID.

If you have any questions, otherwise we seek your own.

Okay.

Mr.

Alden Grassen.

Uh 120,000 for race crosswalks.

I mean, how much how many does that into?

Um, let's see.

We have right now, I think only two, but there could be more in terms of the design on Hopkins, but I do also have Kevin Muse here from DBW could answer your questions more specifically as it relates to these improvements.

Ms.

Chair, in the meantime, and DRS is always maintained those that level of jobs there for those 10 years?

They did for those 10 years, yes.

Yep.

Are they there or gone?

They're gone.

I thought they were gone.

Yeah.

Yep.

So there's somebody else in there that's still generating.

There are, I think, are various uses in that building at this time.

They're trying to occupy the space.

But yes.

Okay.

DRS has left.

Yes, sir.

Yeah.

Chair, members of the committee, Kevin Mews, City Engineer, Department of Public Works, uh, Tolerman Jackson's question.

Um, it's actually the 120,000 is one raised crosswalk.

The reason there's two dots on the map is we're gonna work with the Alder Woman and the community to determine which location is more advantageous and and addresses the concern around the school and worries about utilities.

There's always concerns about utilities and things like that for race crosswalks.

So you got to do that.

How much are we used to make one crosswalk?

That seems that one raised crosswalk is about 100 to 120,000.

Yeah.

How is that possible?

Like what is it too?

That's that seems what's a good word?

That seems absorbed excessive exorbitant.

Yeah, yeah, that that is unfortunately the cost.

So um a raised crosswalk work typically requires um almost always requires redoing the curb ramps on each side uh to bring those up to 88 compliance because we're doing an improvement to the crosswalk.

Um so there's usually some sidewalk squares on either side to get the slopes correct.

We're usually redoing the corner, reforming the curves, depending on the conflicts at the location, we might need to be moving or changing drainage structures.

So a catch basin or an inlet might need to move or change, and then we're building the slopes, matching in the pavement and putting the concrete across.

So it is about 100 to 120,000.

And we have been building quite a few of these across the city, so we're confident in that number.

Listen, I have a guy, I could cut that cost.

A guy who can meet public requirements.

Um with the race crosswalks?

It depends on the location.

So um it can so drainage is the biggest one from a cost driver.

Uh again, if we have to adjust one of our own catch basins or inlets, that's the biggest thing that might determine um uh uh a cost.

We try to avoid utility conflicts mostly in that we are trying to avoid putting a manhole onto a slope that we can't easily adjust that manhole lid to that slope.

Some cases we can.

Could you just be clear what utilities you're talking about when you say that?

Oh, um any utility that's occupying underground in the city public right away.

So um could be our own, you know, water or or sewer manhole lids could also be ATT, we energies, those types of things.

Okay.

So we spend TID money on relocating we energy utilities and other ATT utilities?

No.

Nope.

So no, this is more about making sure we don't have to do that work.

Uh we want to avoid that conflict if we can so that we are not impacting our own utilities or costs.

Um that's why we give ourselves flexibility uh on on the map to avoid those conflicts.

So are we spending TID money on moving utilities or not?

Um if they uh no, we are not because if they need to move for our project, they would have to move, but there are obviously city-owned utilities that we may not want to impact because that increase our overall costs.

Just curious.

Uh that that on that map, the green horizontal space, and then it turns north into a much wider green space going vertical.

That's the infamous Lincoln Creek, right?

That is Lincoln Creek, yes.

Which is one of our most flood-prone waterways in the entire city, if not metropolitan area, correct?

Um it's among those, yes.

And isn't there a culvert uh under the railroad right away that is a like a dam works of the dam that causes Lincoln Creek to back all the way up into the neighborhoods?

So that will turn this into a very large and complex discussion, but I think probably the biggest thing to point to is actually succeeding items on the agenda do include um include uh basically things in coordination with a very large project being led by MMSD called the West Basin Project.

Um so we can probably discuss it then.

Yeah.

You know, okay.

Patching a hole in some street, you'd want to eliminate the flooding problem.

It's a massive issue for the residents over there.

It is, it is, yes.

And eliminate the flooding problem is a very difficult and yeah, very expensive conversation, but we can talk about that.

Yeah.

There's a lot of overlap in the next two items too with this one.

Sure enough, but then we'll uh home down all the kind of projects.

Calling hello?

Yes.

Okay, you're up.

Thanks.

Um I just I joined in to say that I was in support of this kid and um what we're doing with the money, uh doing a lot of infrastructure things that have long been ignored in this area um and millions of dollars into an area that have been long uh somewhat forgotten.

So I'm happy to that residents are gonna have something they can use and that they'll be able to see uh every day.

Okay, appreciate that.

Very good.

Uh any other questions or comments?

So on Hampton right there, what a train tracks are.

Do we pay for that or do we get that money from the training people or is that a split cost or something like that?

Is training tracks on Hampton right there?

Uh yes, yeah.

So those train tracks um what specifically about them.

I'm saying when we redoing a street or doing the projects right there, do we get the money from them or do they be involved in a project at all?

Um they do need to be involved in the project.

Um if it's has to do with the quality of our streets, it is ours.

If it has to do exactly at the crossing, it becomes a more complex conversation.

Um we are I just make sure I don't know.

Well, it's great separated there.

That one is the tracks go overhead uh over across Hampton.

Yep, the one to the east is uh it is a project that is actually active right now, closer to 29th, 28th that at Grade Crossing on Hampton.

There's an active project to improve that.

Operational it's not abandoned.

Really?

Okay, it is less up less active than it was, even somewhat recently.

Right, yeah.

There's a there's a few facilities right there that do use it.

Okay, interesting.

All right.

Okay.

So all of injection moves the recommended uh adoption of this item and hearing no objection, so we're moving on to item eight.

Do we want to read these together?

All of these put put them item eight, file two six zero two nine five resolution approving amendment number two to the project plan and authorizing authorizing expenditures for tax incremental district number seventy-two, which is Bishop's Creek in the first and seventh Aldermanic district, and then item nine, file two six zero two nine-six resolution approving amendment number two to the project plan and authorizing expenditures for tax and criminal district number seventy-four, which is north thirty-fifth street and west capital drive in the sixth and seventh aldermanic districts.

There's also request for substitutes for both of these items.

All injection moves to amend item eight by introducing a substitute, hearing no objection, so ordered sub A is before us.

Hearing no objection, sub A is before us on that file.

Okay.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Good morning, committee members.

Lori Letzka with the Department of City Development.

I'm here to present the second amendment to TID 72, Bishop's Creek.

This TID was created in 2008 for the purpose of facilitating the redevelopment of the former Kaiser Tannery at 32nd and Hampton, and to provide forgivable home improvement loans through throughout the TID district.

The total project costs at that time that were approved was $1,585,000.

In 2014, amendment one was approved for the redetermination of the district's base value after the district experienced a decline in property value, such that the district's value was reduced at least 10% than its base value for the prior two consecutive years.

And this happened during like the Great Recession with a number of our TIDs.

So we had the ability to come in and redo redetermine the base value.

So when the TID was created in 2008, the base value was 32 million six, 32.6 million.

When we redetermined it, it was reduced to 24.4 million.

So that presents the opportunity for us to be here today.

Today's values at 45.8 million dollars.

So it provides a lot more um capacity to provide this type of amendment.

Didn't we have to subsidize this TID with other yes?

This DID also received uh donation as well as many others.

Um so first of all, I want to thank uh Alderman Jackson as well as Alderwoman Pratt uh for working with both the Department of City Development and DPW to collaborate and determine what we will fund with this TID amendment.

So presenting today, I'm presenting to you today um a proposed amendment, amendment two.

Um in total, it'll be uh an increase of two million dollars in project costs.

Um the previous TID provided improvements along North Hopkins.

This TID does as well to provide traffic calming measures between Villard and Cortland.

We will also do raise crosswalks at North Tetonia and West Lincoln Creek Parkway.

This TID will also fund a full street lighting circuit replacement, and this is occurring on the northwest side of the actual district in and within the TID boundary.

As part of the West Basin project, um residents and stakeholders asked for a playground.

So this TID will fund the playground.

And to give a little background on the MMSD West Basin project.

It's a 10-acre site along North 35th Street between Congress and Hopkins, and it was intended to help with stormwater management.

It will hold up to 30 gallons of water.

Northwest Side CDC was they conducted the outreach and residents and stakeholders again asked for more community green space in the area, trails, playground area, and playground equipment, as well as a sledding hill and other amenities.

The basin project will be under construction next year, and then the playground we anticipate being installed in 2028.

So the feasibility of the project to date, we've spent a little bit more than 1.4 million dollars.

The items being presented for funding include the traffic uh, the traffic infrastructure, traffic calming, and other infrastructure with the raised sidewalks for 315,000, the upgraded street lighting circuit at a cost of 935,000.

The playground equipment will cost 750,000.

Administrative professional organizational and legal cost to date are a little bit more than 114,000.

And though the total project costs, including this amendment, is 3,564,452.

And the financing, including previous and proposed on the bonds, will be a little bit more than $2 million.

The TID is projected to pay off in year 2020, year 22 by 2032.

So with that, I open it up for questions.

Mr.

Chair.

So first I want to thank Automoban Prep for graciously donated to the 7th district.

But um with these projects, a little way to overlap.

What part of the project where you connect the sewer from Roosevelt to this Wes Brayson project?

Sure.

Again, Kevin Mews, uh, chair members of the committee, City Engineer, uh Kevin Mews uh from the Department of Public Works.

I know Laurie, if you want to go back to that slide you had about the West Basin project.

Got the old school bus yard, right?

It is, yep, the old B bus lines.

Yep.

Uh so this is a as Lori indicated, a pretty significant uh stormwater management project for this area, um, targeted to hold up to 30 million gallons of water again, being led by the sewerage district.

Um, but we have uh a number of interrelationships between uh you know our infrastructure, our responsibility around the flooding.

Obviously, the sewage district's responsibility on stormwater management, stormwater management there as well.

So our infrastructure is going to come from the south to connect into this basin.

Um so right now you're aware of the substantial work that's been done along Roosevelt, uh, of course, in your district alderman.

Um the uh connection uh that's still beneficial work, but there is greater benefit in doing the connection piece um from the intersection of Capitol and Roosevelt to um well uh 35th and Hopkins essentially, right here to get into the southwest corner of that parcel that's highlighted, um which will then take advantage of this basin.

So the basin needs to be built first.

Umsd really should speak to this, but my understanding is it's a 2027 construction timeline for that.

The basin needs to have time to uh for the grass to grow, the the plans to grow those types of things to be ready to accept water.

Um we will then be building our um never had that happen here before.

Um we will then be building our uh connection uh along 35th there um to get the water between those two locations and uh then take advantage of the basin.

There's also work happening independent of the MMSD work in this area specifically to address stormwater issues on Capitol and using the old on the east side of the railroad, the Nets P Ned's Pizza site.

So we built the basin there uh recently, the the sewers uh part of DPW infrastructure, um, and we will be doing some work underneath Capitol within Capitol to connect and deal with the drainage issues right in this location uh of Capitol underneath the railroad viaduct and other places nearby.

So there's a lot happening in this location.

Basically, the public is aware of it because MSD has been doing public outreach for years on this project.

Um but the work, the physical work will start soon and will take a few years in a row of construction and different pieces to make all this connect and work together.

So we're putting a playground in the middle of what could be a big lake when there was heavy storms.

Uh, as part of the outreach for the project, um, again, led by MMSD for the for West Basin, there was a desire by the community to have a lot of community amendment amenities associated with the project.

So outside of the flood or of the stormwater management piece, um, there will be community assets, some of which MMSD will be paying for because they're eligible expenses under MMSD's mandate, a playground as I understand it.

Again, they could speak to this more than I could, is not something within their their mandate they feel like they can spend their tax revenues on.

Um, and so that would be a city contribution, and luckily for us, the TID funds are available to to do that.

All right, very good, Mr.

Chair.

Yeah, all the presentation.

So how much of this is everything we're talking about today, how much is it dependent on the basin and MMSD executing that?

And what happens if they don't have they given you a timeline on when it's gonna get done?

Yeah, so a couple things.

So I believe the only thing that's dependent, the only project that's dependent on that is the West Basin play area in this TID amendment.

Um the um what I just described was a number of other seward projects that are you know need to run in succession with MMSD's projects, but those aren't related to the TID funding.

Um that project did experience some delays.

They are re-accelerating it and trying to get essentially as close as they can to their original delivery time period.

I know it is a high priority for them uh to deliver the basin very soon, um, especially after last August's floods.

So they are working very hard to get that done as quickly as possible.

Yeah, I mean, uh on the Cakeir River, we've been waiting a long time for 16th Street East to get done in its delay after delay and waiting for Jackson Park and then Yep.

So just wondering how dependent that is on this.

Yeah, yeah.

The playground would be the only piece that's dependent on which is probably one of very important to the community.

It is.

Yeah, Mr.

Chairman, yes, Alderman Perez.

Um, the expenditure period for this TID expires in December of 2030.

So we do have a little bit of buffer time.

Um, but we get if but if we do get to the point where we feel that the funding will not be able to be used for the playground, we will revisit what are the things we can fund with um the Alder, the council members that represent this area.

I was curious, is this a can this be a backdoor way of siphoning money out of the high performing kids by basically making donations to this TID and then whoops, look, there's additional increment.

Now we can spread it around in the neighborhood.

That was not the intention.

The um this TID and a few others.

It did work that way, but I mean it literally just worked in the last two years, meaning that the property this only there's appreciation.

Yeah, the D this district and the one that uh TID 74 Century City, they have a large number of residential property properties, and in this case, those residential properties are now seeing that appreciation much greater in some cases on the city average, and it's bringing that valuation up.

But I mean that'd be a neat way of basically directing downtown TID increment to central city TIDS by whoop, we need a no donation, and then oh, mysteriously the assessments have increased.

Now we have surplus, so let's do some amendments.

Yes.

Okay.

Very good.

That's an accurate statement.

Mr.

Chaircott, yeah.

Um, real quick, and a proposal, do you have the what is the proposed um resurfacing of 35th Street?

From Capitol to I forgot the other street.

That'll be the next JD amendment right.

That's T D 74.

Okay, very good.

Perfect.

You know, this raises we have this this claims issue with all these flooding victims.

And there may have been there may not have been any claims if they had had this basin in place last August.

That this is designed to specifically alleviate the Lincoln Creek flooding, right?

Kind of.

Uh it it will help.

Yes, it will help.

Um I mean, the level of storm that was experienced last August is not that is not that is one that is difficult to design almost any system for the city.

14 inches of rain is you you'd have to have a basin the size of the entire north side to afford that water.

Right, right.

We'd have to restore probably the original floodplains, which you know is you'd have to remove the neighborhoods, which is not obviously something that's being considered.

So okay, very good.

So on this one, uh there'd be no other questions or comments, all the injection moves a recommend adoption, hearing no objections, so ordered.

Moving on to item nine, we've already read that into the record.

Let's see the PowerPoint on that one.

By the way, that big building that burned down was in this TID, correct?

It was that the trespasser was just taking a look around, uh, decided to smoke a cigarette and the whole thing burned down.

Mr.

Chairman, go ahead.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mr.

Chairman, yes, it's not only nearby, it's within the district boundary boundary, but I did check with the assessor's office to see if that would impact the feasibility.

And because the property itself, the improvements had no value, literally, it was assessed at zero dollars.

It does not impact the feasibility, but excellent question.

Thank you.

All right, Mr.

Good question with that.

So when we originally seen these that building had burned out, so what changed?

Where you get the money from to demolish the building?

The the demolition.

The property owner would be.

Yes, holy redeemer, yes.

The subsidiary owns that property.

But you just had it up there, so that does it come out of any of the TF funds.

No, the property, the improvement.

Okay, there was a initially uh 55 unit apartment building was built it within the district, but there was a second property that was supposed to be part of a later phase.

That is the building that burnt down, and it had no it had no value.

Yeah, it was vacant, it was assessed at no dollars, and so it did not impact the feasibility, and the owners are responsible for that demolition, not the city.

Thank you.

All right, good morning, Mr.

Chair, members of the committee.

Dan Casanova with the Department of City Development.

This is the third infrastructure TID amendment in this vicinity.

Um in total, it's seven million dollars of investment.

Four million would be coming from this amendment to TID 74, which is the North 35th Street and West Capitol Drive TID, or often referred to as the Century City TID.

It was created in 2009 to fund 15.6 million dollars in infrastructure demolition and environmental remediation at the former AO Smith Tower Automotive site.

It had a base value of about 89 million dollars when it was created in 2009, and like Laurie described in the in the last file, um, because of the great recession and the decline in particular residential property within the boundary.

Um, the base value for this district was reset in 2014 at around 63 million dollars.

Oh uh almost a 30 percent decrease.

The good news is as of last year in 2025, the value in the district has increased significantly to almost 110 million dollars.

So there's 46 million dollars in incremental value in the district right now.

Um, and with donations that it's received in the past, it's in a position for this amendment today.

Real quickly on the history, I think you're all familiar with the site, but this is the former A.O.

Smith Tower Automotive site, over two million square uh feet of uh buildings were on the site.

It was an industrial powerhouse for the city and for the neighborhood involved in all sorts of manufacturing over the years, the the war efforts, and before closing, uh was mostly doing car frames.

And in 2005, when Tower Automotive declared bankruptcy, um a few years later, this TID was created.

The redevelopment authority acquired the land and began demolition in 2010.

DPW constructed their field office on on the west side of the property.

2015 the tracks were extended into the property at the Talgul facility.

In 2019, the corner of 35th and Capitol was acquired.

Um the Century City one building was constructed, uh, as well as Melvina Park.

Again, this TID amendment would be for four million dollars of improvements.

Um, and like with the last two amendments, we uh talked to the Department of Public Works and the local alder about potential projects in the area.

And here we are proposing one million dollars for additional remediation uh soil management and stormwater work at Century City to make sure that those sites are shovel ready.

Then there would be improvements to three arterials which are on the high injury network.

The first would be North 35th Street from Capitol to Congress, which would be repaved and include safety improvements.

The second is West Capitol Drive from 31st to 35th, particularly underneath the railway viaduct there.

The third is North Hopkins from 20th to 27th, which would receive safety improvements.

Um then there would be the repaving of uh one block of uh burn hard next to Townsend Elementary.

There would be some funds for our housing programs through NIDC and then uh small contingency and administration totals four million.

So, in total with the previously approved costs and this amendment, the TID um would have just under 20 million dollars of project costs, and we are estimating that it would pay off by the 25th year of the TID in 2034.

There's been substantial donations to this TID, correct?

Correct.

So there has been 33 million approved, but only 21 million were needed to pay off the outstanding debt because of the increase in donations came from high performers, like cathedral place, the cathedral, new arcade, which was the Grand Avenue, Intermodal Park East, Stadium Business Park, and Midtown.

Okay.

What's the total investment overall since day one?

Private investment.

No.

Um the city's investment.

If you include TID capital dollars that were put in, there was a new market tax credits and grants.

The total is just under 50 million dollars in in remediation and site prep.

And the new market was for the building that was built?

Uh yes.

How is the Telgold building assessed?

Because that's city owned, right?

Yes, but that is that pay a pilot or I mean, or is that just free?

Good morning, Chair.

Uh committee members Dave Meskey with DCD.

Uh, it is tax exempt, that's right.

It's owned by Rackham.

There is a rent that is paid to Rackham on a monthly basis, but is not part of the overall tax uh the feasibility analysis.

Interesting.

So if we were able to sell that building, it would go on the tax roll, and it's its assessed value would add to the value of the district.

That is correct.

Yeah.

And the rent is high enough to feel like it's having an impact as if it was paying taxes?

Yes.

Uh the rent is uh it's about 30,000 plus a month, which covers uh most of our expenditures.

Uh there is some upkeep that we have to take on with you know roof and and uh pavement and security, things like that, but it does cover our expenditures.

Uh we have looked at the possibility of a sale.

So we have an appraisal that does have a several million dollar value.

Uh the current tenant has not uh been interested in purchasing it at this point, but it's a conversation we've had.

Okay, just to be clear the 50 million dollars you talked about investment that included the infusion of the donor TIDs here.

The initial was 15 million.

Right.

The donor TIDs pay help pay off that existing debt because there was an increment coming in from the TID for a number of years because it was it was negative.

But when you say the 50, that includes the infusion of the donor tits.

Correct, it's not it's not additional above that.

Yeah, and then how many acres is this total?

Uh the total is about a hundred acres, including the Telgo building and the outlets.

So between in the hundred acres, you have Taugo, you have how many structures do we have on the hundred acres?

There are four structures.

So you got the Telgo building, the tower, the off the building 65, which is the the Art Deco building.

Still standing still standing.

Yeah, the the original uh office building 1A, which is the brick building along 27th and Hopkins, and then Central City 1, the building at 30 at Hopkins and and the Capitol Draft.

So, how many acres are available for development?

Uh right now it's uh about 60 acres.

60 acres 45 east of the track and 14 on the corner of Capitol and just out of curiosity.

There is a redevelopment plan, correct?

Yes.

And the redevelopment plan does specify permitted and prohibited uses.

I remember this came up with the slaughterhouse situation several years ago before your time.

Oh, yes.

I heard about yeah.

Uh does the data centers fall under any of those prohibited uses, or is that a permitted use?

Or is that you not even contemplated?

It probably wasn't contemplated.

I mean, the original read of memo plan was 2005.

Uh it was amended a handful of years ago.

I can get back to the group on that.

I don't know the answer to that question.

Because now we hear they're talking about vertical data centers, which 60 acres.

60 acres is nowhere near big enough to do one of these farm field deals, but if they're talking a 10-story data center, uh 60 acres might be enough.

I'm just curious, and and of course the issue of getting delivery trucks in and out wouldn't be a factor here because they don't need delivery trucks.

Yeah.

So I just curious if we have that on our radar for future concern.

I will get back to the group.

You saw the stink over a lousy 19,000 square foot data center, much less a 60-acre site.

All right.

Okay, very good.

Any other questions or comments on this file?

Very creative use of our tax incremental financing laws and rules, and uh I like it.

So Aldwyn Cogs moves the recommended adoption, hearing no objections, so ordered.

Okay, thank you.

All right, moving on to our last item, item 10, file 252193 substitute resolution approving a project plan and a development agreement, authorizing expenditures and creating tax incremental district number 134, Austin Commons in the 14th Al Dominic District.

All right, who wants to take the laboring o'er here?

All right.

Um good morning.

Uh Larry Kilmer, Department of City Development.

Um here.

I'm joined at the table from my farm, uh, Tyler Sharon from uh Commonwealth, uh Brandon Mathu from Northern Star Companies, and obviously Alder Woman Dmitrievich.

Um happy to get us kicked off.

Um so TID 134 Austin Commons.

Um the uh site address is 2318 South Austin Street.

Here's the general map, uh and you can see where the proposed TID boundary sits within uh the Bayview neighborhood, so just south of Lincoln Avenue.

Zooming in on the uh the TID boundary map itself, you can see that the TID, the extent of the TID proposed TID boundary um is uh uh originally three parcels, um, which will be combined through a CSM into one parcel for this development itself.

So the TID boundary is only um will be will be drawn only around this development.

Some existing site conditions.

So um at the moment there are currently three um houses located at this property.

Um I believe it's two single family and one duplex.

Um they've been boarded boarded and vacant for um many many years, I think over a decade.

Um I am gonna turn the presentation over for the next two slides to the development team to introduce themselves.

Yeah, yeah.

Um thank you all for your time.

I'm Brandon with Northern Star Companies.

Um I'm here with Tyler with Commonwealth Development Corp.

Uh, we came across this site uh a few years ago.

Um it was uh zone for multifamily housing.

Uh the homes have been vacant for extended period, and the factory that they were and the factory that they were associated with uh was no longer in operation and would not be coming back.

So we saw this as an excellent opportunity uh to carry forward some of the housing goals of the city and meet some of the affordability needs of the neighborhood.

Um I don't know if you have anything you'd like to add to that.

No, I mean I I will just add this was a project that Brendan had put together um being uh a Milwaukee, if you will, um, and Commonwealth has really kind of come on board to further assist him in the development efforts to make sure that we can reach the closing table and start seeing some vertical construction pending approvals that we're seeking here today.

Speakers on to talk about um the project overall, and then I'm happy to jump into the financing on the next slide.

Sure.

Yeah.

So uh we are proposing a hundred unit development on this site.

Um it is uh I want to say roughly uh an acre.

Um as you can see, we have spread the unit mix across uh myriad of uh unit types as well as uh income categories.

Uh and we're really excited about the opportunity of offering uh mixed income housing solution on dilapidated uh uh properties.

Um we during this process have made a few iterations under the leadership and guidance of the order of the area uh to account for uh some parking concerns, traffic and congestion, um, as long as well as a uh a forward-facing approach to being a really good neighbor and steward in this community.

Uh so we're really excited about bringing these units to the market.

Um I'll just add um so if the TID is approved at the schedule that the development team is looking for, um, we should see construction completion uh by the end of next year.

Is that still yes?

Um the target.

Who owns these three houses now?

Is it private ownership?

Yes, they're currently under private ownership and the same ownership is uh the owner of the adjacent uh factory as well.

And the factory lies which direction on that map uh uh west across Austin Street, yes.

And what what what what what are the lots facing Lincoln?

What what are those comprised of that commercial, residential?

Yeah, those are most um I believe all one and two family residential.

Um the corner building might be a three unit, but um and then to the south, what is that large parcel representative?

A multi-unit building?

That's correct.

I want to say it's sixteen or eighteen units.

And what's to the east facing Howell Avenue?

That's the uh housing authority um tower.

Oh, it is uh okay.

No, you can see in some of the uh in this picture you can see it uh in the background there.

Yes, okay.

Um as well as in some of the renderings.

Okay.

Okay.

All right.

So for the financing piece, um, the overall uh project investment um is at about 33 million dollars.

Um you can see the variety of sources that are required for many uh affordable housing developments specifically for this project.

Uh the development team is um seeking a first mortgage, uh multiple avenues of low-income housing tax credits, uh they're deferring a developer fee.

Um they've they've uh already um received uh word from Rackham on a revolving loan fund, additionally Section 48 tax credits, uh Wisconsin Department uh DOA housing trust funds, uh received a home allocation of funds, uh focus on energy funds, and then um the TIFF that you're considering today.

Um the TIFF itself is up to 2.135 million, and it is developer financed uh for up to 21 years with an interest rate of 5.91 percent.

Um and the project does include the human resource requirements of 40 percent RPP and 25 percent SBE.

In terms of how the development sits uh within the uh both the Southeast Side Area Plan and the Bayvie neighborhood plan, um so the development is consistent with both plans, and I've identified a number of um housing components within those plans where that consistency lies what's the parking arrangement uh here?

The parking.

Um so um it's uh a hundred uh hundred and four um off-street underground uh parking stalls for a hundred units.

Okay, because Austin is a narrow residential side street, correct?

So your building facing a residential side street, not an arterial street, right?

It's on the corner of Lincoln, but yeah.

And this is zone, this is zone multi-unit RM zoning?

Yeah, um so the development that's being proposed is within zoning, um, and it's actually um slightly less dense than uh zoning uh that the zoning cap would allow because I could see if this was facing Howell or facing Lincoln, that would be a very different situation than facing a low density residential street with street parking, I assume.

And that factory is that occupied or is that still vacant?

Vacant and blighted.

It's former Clement factory?

Yes.

And then west of it is the railroad.

Right away, I assume.

A couple months.

There's one black.

Oh, is that the block away?

Okay.

Sorry.

Okay.

Uh older woman, you have any just a few things.

Thank you so much, uh, Mr.

Chairman and colleagues.

Um, just a couple of comments that I'd like to offer to the file.

We've had three public meetings on this.

We had one at the Tippicano Library, one at the Bayview Library that was an open house kind of format, and then the third one was a virtual.

So we tried every tool to make sure that we communicated with people.

Throughout the whole process, we wanted to make sure that we focused on residents living a little bit closer by.

So with that, with each mailing that we did, um, we made sure that we probably talked to almost everybody around there.

This has been challenging.

Um, I've certainly learned a lot from this process as well.

And um we've been keeping in our office very close track of who is responded to us, where they live and what they've said.

And interestingly, you know, the work that we do sometimes is is extra challenging.

It was completely divided.

So um herein lies decisions that we have to make.

The question before the committee today is should TIFF be used to support this type of project?

When you're looking at the map, um, what you perhaps can't see is that it's about approximately one to two blocks away from where many of you supported and attended the largest affordable housing complex in the state of Wisconsin.

That's the coreless.

Nearly 600 units, it's not even fully constructed or occupied.

So in these meetings, and I do want to state for the record, I will always take the time needed to listen to every one of my constituents.

It takes time.

It will always take time.

It should be built into every single process.

And with that, along the way, we had so many requests, and every single request we've confronted, and I think we've actually risen to the occasion, and by we I mean the Department of State Development.

There's questions about parking, congestion, um, being so close to the core list.

And that is a very different change in the neighborhood.

So when you have over 600 un excuse me, approximately 600 units plus 100 units, and a reminder, the core list as well as the Austin Commons are 100% affordable.

So every unit in each building is affordable.

Of course, there's a spectrum of affordability, which was something that we also had to talk a lot about with constituents.

In our virtual meeting, Department of City Development did an excellent job listening.

We spent a lot of time listening and putting together the top questions and responding to them.

So with a pretty divided nearby district, now my position will be not to object to this.

When you combine this along with the core list, that is almost 700 units of 100% affordability.

We are doing our part.

We are part of a larger city, and we cannot thrive in the Bayvie neighborhood if the entire city is not inclusive and doesn't thrive.

So this has been challenging.

There will be some people who will be disappointed, but I think in the end, the fact that Department of City Development went out of their way to accommodate every question.

We had questions about the values of properties, how would it affect people?

Um parking.

So that's one part we didn't really talk about, but we've changed some local parking if needed for double-sided parking on Austin, Lincoln, and surrounding streets.

In fact, please correct me if I'm wrong because I'm going off memory.

The Department of Public Works stated that an additional 100 parking spots would be available by the parking accommodations that the city will make.

There was a while here where I felt like the city was making all of the changes that were needed to accommodate the development.

Um, but it's process, like I said.

So parking, congestion.

We do think that uh every issue that was brought up by constituences, constituents, excuse me, has been met with an answer.

Um we have a live video of it uh from that last virtual meeting, and so with that, um Mr.

Chairman, like I said at this point, I'm I'm not going to be objecting to it.

When did this rezoning because I gotta tell you those are look like decent little houses to me?

How did that ever get a rezoned multi-unit?

Who who rezoned it?

Was that initiated by Clement?

Was that a city rezoning?

But I mean, how did that ever get a multi-unit site mid-block on a residential street?

This reminds me of some of the god-awful apartment buildings in my neighborhood, which were built on residential streets, mid-block, because they had big sites, they tore down one house and built a 40-unit building, and they did nothing but trouble for 40 years.

How did this ever get rezoned?

Yeah, that's a great question.

I don't think we've been able to pinpoint uh when or how that happened exactly, but I think just given some of the mixed use zoning and density in the vicinity, it and especially the adjacency to the housing authority development.

It it must have been zoned as such at one point in time, but that predates all of us here today.

When I got first elected, the first thing I did was the down zone, all these RM areas in my district.

So this wouldn't happen.

Because if it's a zoning change, we have a hell of a lot more leverage than when it's just approving a tax incremental financing.

I mean, this does not belong on this street in my judgment.

But that's fine.

Mr.

I do want to say that the same owner owns the um lighted factory as well as these properties, and they have been boarding.

And they have been boarding.

Yeah, they've probably done for parking at some future date.

So they were gonna demolish it and create a parking lot.

That that yeah, I I get that part.

But I don't think Clement sought multi-unit rezoning.

Somebody wants to say something back here.

Can I get in well not from back there you can't because you can't, they can't hear you at their thousands watching on TV and they can't hear you.

You have to have a microphone.

I'm happy to step, I can go step over there actually.

Mr.

Chair, real quick.

Yeah, go ahead.

So um do you guys have first right above for the clemence property as well?

So there is a sequencing that we are hopeful uh will move forward as this project moves forward, where in resources from this development will lead to the uh demolition of the factory.

Um however, those decisions are still uh in the hands of the owner.

What's gonna be put at that factory site?

I'm not sure.

Um could create a vacant lot.

I I know that currently the factory is in ISOR.

Um it's it's uh a nuisance to that area, and uh one of the consistent themes from all of the neighborhood meetings was finding some way to address what's going to happen with that factory.

Um I would like to reiterate that I am not uh in control of what would happen to that factory.

However, the owner has communicated to me that his intention is to look to redevelop that factory as well, sequencing that after this point I wouldn't care if this was high end condominiums.

This does not belong at this location, a multi-unit building, low income, high income, market rate, condos does not belong at this location.

Mr.

Chair.

So I'm gonna be a no-vote on this one.

Mr.

Chair?

Yeah, please, Auto.

So what exactly do you have site control of right now?

The the three homes that we are looking uh to develop.

The Austin Commons project.

The So the 100 units are just going where the three homes are.

Yes.

Um how many floors is it?

It's uh four four stories.

What's the unit mix?

Um it is uh roughly uh twenty-three uh it's uh it's a it's a it's a mixture of ones, twos, and threes.

Um and those homes there are they are some fairly large lots.

Uh they equate to roughly uh an acre, so they're they're not necessarily typical uh depth.

What amenities will they apparently have?

So we will be offering uh community room uh as well as uh uh energy efficient uh uh appliances, uh uh charging stations for vehicles.

Um this will be built to Wisconsin Green Built uh uh standards, um, as well as uh the typical package, uh leasing office, uh things available to the to the tenants.

There will be a community room and a uh a fitness center as well.

Who will manage?

Uh the management will be done by ACC, uh a very reputable firm that has extensive experience managing buildings of similar size in the Milwaukee area.

They have over 3,000 units under management uh in the Milwaukee area and are renowned uh for being excellent uh property manager.

What does that stand for?

I'm not sure what the ACC stands for.

The principal is Chris Hand.

H A N D, yes, sir.

All right, very good.

Um what what are the what are the rents?

What's the range?

Uh so they range roughly from uh 500 uh dollars to to roughly 1,300.

Um with serve with with the number of units set aside for individuals at 30 percent AMI up to 80 percent AMI.

If we were to look at this in regards to the kind of salaries that this housing supports is is 30 to 80,000 per year.

Um with I would say almost an equal split between the folks within that income range.

How many parking spaces?

It's a hundred and four parking spaces.

Where are they?

The parking spaces are underneath the building.

Um this picture is not necessarily showing the greatest, but in our design, there as you uh can see that car that is where vehicles will be entering uh the parking structure, which rents street they're entering the parking off?

Austin.

Okay.

That's the safe street.

Is the parking uh a part of when you rent you automatically get a parking space, or do they have to pay an extra fee monthly for the parking space?

So um there is a uh fee that we are looking to charge for the parking.

Uh we decided to do that in order uh to make sure that individuals are not being charged for parking who do not have cars because we are serving a number of units that will likely not uh own a vehicle.

We we saw it as more efficient uh to offer uh individuals the opportunity to buy a parking space throughout this community uh meeting process.

We've also come up with a kind of a dynamic pricing approach where our emphasis is on maximizing the usage of our parking structure and making sure that if we are not seeing the occupancy levels at the rates that we would like to modify our rate uh to make sure that it is being utilized efficiently.

Um and also beyond that uh we we've got a a parking policy where the parking stall will be offered for 12 months to ensure that residents are not just kind of cherry picking the time periods during the year where they're utilizing off-street parking.

Right.

Will one unit be able to have more than one parking thing?

If they so choose, um, but that is it's it starts off with a sort of uh one one for one.

You overparked it for the I'm sorry, yes, sir.

Um uh we've we've overparked it by four.

Um based on zoning, we've overparked it by 37.

Uh zoning zoning requires around 67 parking stalls.

Um the rates that we've currently iterated to are um substantiated by third-party market studies as well as uh various management of other nearby properties.

Let me interrupt me.

The park, they will park on the street for free.

That's that's what I was about to say.

That's exactly what they'll do.

I wonder what's a massive parking problem on the street.

I wonder what the street parking is there, because I found um I know in developments in my district that when it's an extra fee, people often won't want to pay that.

Right.

And they'll park on the street.

Plus, you have people and their guests and all that kind of thing.

So I just wonder um what the parking is around there.

So I I would say that I would encourage you as this move forward to work with DPW and the other person and look at that as it as it happens, because it could become a problem for the neighborhood if you have an overwhelming amount of folks that ain't trying to um pay for the parking at whatever rate, just because I don't want to um pay more, you don't want it to become an inconvenience for the neighbors that live there as well.

Believe me, I have personal knowledge of this situation up and down Well Street, all those buildings built in the 60s and 70s, they all have off-street parking that's empty because nobody willing to pay the price.

And why are they unwilling to pay the price?

Because they know they can park on the street for free.

Now, in the old days when we had real parking enforcement, there would be a cost to that choice, and that cost would be a lot of tickets that would exceed the rent to park.

Well, since we have no parking enforcement anymore, you essentially can park on our streets for free in these high density neighborhoods.

So I did this.

This is my problem written all over in my judgment.

Might I offer just one small comment in regards to the off-street parking?

Or in regards to the parking?

Uh DPW did uh a very lengthy evaluation of the parking capacity that currently exists.

Uh, and they deemed the number of stalls that we set it.

Yeah, sure, if I may, Mr.

Chair.

I'm sorry.

No, that's perfect.

Go ahead.

Uh Scott Reinbacher with the Department of Public Works here.

Uh, yes, I can add uh DPW.

We've conducted at least three parking studies in the area.

Uh two of which were during the overnight hours.

At this time, we feel there is sufficient uh on street parking availability in the area.

Um with that said, we have 80% of these tenants park on the street.

Uh correct.

Yes.

We made that assumption.

Uh yes.

Um the parking studies indicate right now on street parking is only about 50% utilized.

Um with that said, residents may not be able to park immediately outdoors uh in front of their homes or in front of this development, they may have to walk around the block or so.

Um but we are on the block.

That is terrible.

Uh yeah, in the area, I should say, downstreet.

Um, but we have also identified other streets where we can change the parking regulations, whether that's allow two-sided overnight parking, um, potentially alter the winter parking restrictions.

Uh, we are committed to finding uh solution for area residents.

Um we don't want to implement all these changes immediately.

We want to let the development settle and address in the future if needed.

Uh we don't want to open the floodgates immediately uh to do as you have uh mentioned, Mr.

Chair, and that's incentivize people to park on the streets.

Again, we want to take a wait and see approach and see what changes uh we meet may need to make in the future.

May I add something, please?

Please.

Thank you.

All the questions that are being asked here have been the most frequently asked questions at every single meeting.

And each meeting we had, and I appreciate your due diligence.

Um each meeting we had, we got another study.

This is why it took time, by the way.

Um we did another, we did multiple DPW studies.

Also, I introduced files, which I believe are already in the system, and I I want to say have made it through the process to allow for that double-sided parking to just turn on the switch when and if it's needed.

So we've done that, and I believe that that would produce over 100 additional spots if are needed.

Also, the developers have mentioned to me that they're going to seek some kind of like a dynamic pricing and adjust it, and I only know this because they've repeated it at every single meeting.

Um, that the like a dynamic pricing.

If they see that it's um not being used, they would adjust the price as well.

So um again, this was a a very very hot topic.

We even did an additional um look because the neighbors had asked, okay, you're doing your nighttime evaluation now on a current snapshot of reality.

But what happens when cordless is fully on and fully um utilized?

They also have um parking that's somewhat sufficient for their um construction as well.

It spans almost three blocks.

But when everything is fully um developed, what will that feel like in the community?

And it's still, to my understanding, had met um the needs.

And I have to say um, you know, I hope, and I've said this before, that we don't make decisions just based on a car-driven fossil fuel-driven um economy, but I realistically um know that that is something that's been on neighbors' minds constantly.

It's been probably the top question at every single uh meeting, and it looks like we've risen, you know, to collectively to the occasion.

So I appreciate you all combing through this as you should as the committee.

I'm just one vote on um this council, but please know that that's why we've had three meetings, why every question's been asked and and answered.

And again, it will still be insufficient to some.

Um, but it's about finding a balance.

Thank you.

Okay, if I could add, oh go ahead.

Um so uh just to reiterate so the idea of decoupling parking from uh rent, that is a much more common thing that we are seeing now, certainly in affordable housing where you're not gonna make someone pay for a spot that they're not using, right?

So that is a trend that is something that is becoming more and more common.

Um additionally, um the concept of the um the dynamic pricing is not something I've heard, and I think um what gives me a level of comfort that the developer will play this out is um their loan, right?

Their mortgage is based on making payments, uh, and they're work they're they're relying on parking being fully filled to make sure that they can make their mortgage.

Well, I mean the loan officer, I'd have a real question.

I question that very highly.

So I think there's uh is that the reality is so uh if I may here.

So to Brennan's point, we have done extensive research studies to understand what is a fair market rent to be charging for a parking space.

What if why are you what are you charging?

Uh per stall, it will be 104.

A month good luck.

So to Larry's point, I mean, as future owners of the building, the loan is sized, factoring that in.

It is in our best interest to make sure that the occupancy levels of parking is high.

The dynamic pricing.

Is there a way to include that in any agreements that we may have with the developer?

Since that is something they have publicly um professed to be willing to do, which is great.

But how do we hold that accountable?

Is it a way for that to be worked into?

Especially because it's new, so we haven't had to deal with that with other developers.

Yeah, we can certainly see how that could land in the development agreement.

Um again, I think I think it's it's just important just as important to know that um it's in their best interest for it to be fully parked as well, right?

Um I used to live on the river in my district, and the indoor parking was I think 125 a month.

And outdoor parking was 75 dollars a month.

We used to probably put two parking spaces a month.

We got one bar.

Um but as you can imagine, most of uh the people in LA there parked on the street, and it wasn't a street that I think the city designed for to have as much parking as it um as it had, and I'm sure the developers want it as well for it to be completely parked up, but it wasn't because people didn't want to pay that um extra mile.

Because people didn't want to pay that extra mile.

But it's good that you have plans in case that that um happens.

A couple more questions.

Um how many elevators call me in here?

I want to say two.

Okay.

You want to say a little while.

I mean, how we don't know how many elevators are in the there's two elevators.

Okay.

Um, if this goes through, then it would meet the more ordinance, right?

Requirements.

Because it's over a million dollars.

Correct.

So do you have plans and strategies for to meet and exceed the RPP and SBE requirements that would be put on you if you were given this funding and have you already begun conversations with the Office of Responsible, what are they called now?

Not accrediting purpose of compliance.

The old Office of Equity.

It's a before you go for it.

I'm asking this now of you, and I'm gonna start asking it of every new project because we're starting to see, at least I'm starting to notice more projects come before us that um are not meeting um the requirements.

And I think before you even get before you break ground, you should be developing strategies and thinking about ways to pivot if this doesn't work and blah, blah, blah, blah, so that you could try to meet um and potentially exceed um those requirements.

So I'm asking now, before anything, and before I cast my vote, um what are the strategies that y'all are thinking about in order to try to meet and exceed those RPP and SPEC goals.

I I will just say at this point, the project is fully bid out.

I mean, we've met with with the office uh and we've made great headway.

Um, and for the shortfall that we are looking at now, there's a budget being set aside to make sure that we can achieve the 40% and the 25% respectively come the end of the project because there again it's in our best interest of owner to make sure that we're hitting those goals.

And you brought on a consultant?

Yes.

Yeah, so we've brought on uh Prism Technical uh very early in the process.

We've identified uh potential pitfalls in regards to securing workers that are duly qualified as RPP, et cetera.

Uh and we have a very extensive game plan in place uh to make sure that we're able to meet and exceed those goals.

And uh personally, that's uh uh a big part of why I love doing these kind of opportunities in Milwaukee is an opportunity to kind of spread those um job growth opportunities to individuals that I know and love.

Uh so that's a big part of what we're looking to do with this development, and it's certainly at the front of our minds as we are are moving this deal forward.

I would encourage y'all to also use DC MKE.

It's just one of our online um platforms for spreading uh job uh opportunities as well as uh how people can get skilled up um for certain job opportunities too.

And it's um it's available to you all as well.

Um the part of part of the reason I asked about the management is because at least what I've seen over this last year is um with a lot of the multi-unit apartments is a whole lot of issues that we probably had through the years, but I think over this last year it's really reached a height.

Um the lack of good management companies out here.

And quite honestly, I know that when you get tax credits, it's specific companies that you have to work with that are on weed's list.

Um, and even some of those fall short um from time to time.

I think it's important that you be ahead of the game on the management.

If this company doesn't work, that one might because with a large amount, like 100, and it's right next to these other, um, not far from these other um ones.

I think it's gonna be the difference is really gonna be how you manage it.

Who you allow to live there and how well um is kept up.

So I think the management is gonna make all the difference in the world.

Um and I just think a lot of companies right now are not performing um in excellence.

So I think it's important that developers hold a great standard um for um who they have managing and how to deal with issues with management immediately so that it doesn't have a detrimental impact on one your own project, but two um the neighborhood um as a whole.

A lot of stuff people associate with affordable and whatever, it's not really the affordable housing, it's horrible management that might have let any and everybody live there, or they just did not manage well, did not manage the property well.

So I think it's even you you gotta have high standards for how you um allow the property to be managed.

So just putting that out there.

That's why I asked who you're gonna use um or whatever.

That's all Mr.

Chair.

Yeah, please.

Um whether it's DCD or maybe you guys can talk a little bit about the application for the tax credit process.

Um I know you you apply, you don't know if you're gonna actually get them at some point.

I thought um, and I'll just I think we all have a different way of uh working with development opportunities developers, especially community members who see new projects coming to the district.

And um I I didn't I didn't think that the the larger coverage of the project was really understanding the depth of each neighborhood or each street being different and the complexities of understanding everything that goes into place, and then part of the process was you know um we apply for these tax credits, got them, and we're locked in now.

And at what point when applying for tax credits, do you start having conversations about what could happen if the tax credits are approved very early on versus the feeling of you know, everyone's kind of got a gun to their head that we got these, we can't give them back, and we gotta make this happen.

Yes.

Um there is a bifurcated process with these tax credits, which was a new process at that time.

Uh we were notified of being shortlisted at some time January of 2025.

Um, and then we went in for a full application after that short list, and we were notified of an award uh roughly March of 2025, immediately after you know, we began to reach out uh to the leadership of the area and um uh share the the the project and where we were in the stages.

Um there were considerable number of moving parts between the city budgets and just a timing that uh really drove the the the lengthier discussions around some of the the items a little further into the year than the than we would have liked.

Um but immediately after receiving tax credits is typical of developers to reach out to the to the leadership of the areas uh to make them aware of that award uh as well as to gather any feedback that might have any impact on the development itself.

Um and we have and will continue to be uh responsive uh in an open book to uh uh the Alder as well as the DCD and the neighbors of that area uh to make sure that this deal is um something that we're proud of in a neighborhood asset.

Sure.

I I guess my suggestion would be even in the process of applying, really making these these communications and connections so I can tell you if you want to apply in my district for a certain parcel.

I know my district a different way that I could tell you, even if you get them, it's not a good idea.

Let's find another parcel to apply for whatever the case may be to go down that road, and just because you get them doesn't always mean it's the right project at the right place.

So I mean this may work out, but um, in general, I think we we all need to find a better process of when you apply, even though it's something that's not certain that there's some visioning around what that could be, because if you get them, then you know a lot of the communications done on the front end completely understand.

So just so I I assume without this tax incremental financing, this project would not proceed.

Is that correct?

That's fairly correct, yes.

So we do have control over this project in effect the reverse zoning process.

We can we can make sure a improper land use does not happen by denying the financing in essence.

Okay.

Wait, what did you say?

I'm sorry.

He said that this project will not go forward without just approving this file.

And I said, so in effect, this is a reverse zoning action because we will not an improper land use will not happen if we do not approve this file.

So that's the idea for how much two point 2.135.

So it's a 30, how much?

Uh 33 million dollar project.

So you have all your other funding in place?

Yes.

Okay, well, we are set for public testimony.

So is there anyone interested in testifying?

Come on down.

Anyone else?

Just for which so we know.

Okay.

Anybody on the no, there wouldn't be anybody on the board.

Okay.

Name and address, please.

Uh name is Anders Meyer.

Um I own the uh industrial property directly across the street from this proposed building.

Former Clement.

No, I I own the the adjacent property to Clemens Ausset Company.

Okay.

Um we've been in business 120 years.

We've been at that address for 11 years.

Um we don't feel it's good use of that particular property.

Um I do have answers to questions on how that how those three houses happen to okay.

Thank you.

You want to hear?

Yes.

You want to hear what happened?

Yes, indeed.

Okay, many years ago, I don't recall the years.

Um it entailed a series of meetings just like this, where Clement Sausage was petitioning to have a kill floor as part of their operation buildings building sausages.

So the city went and approved it against the wishes of all the neighborhood, uh, because Clement had to have this happen for their survival.

We talking 20 years ago or 40 years ago.

I'm just curious, what's the time frame?

Um I'm gonna guess maybe early 80s.

Oh, that okay, very good.

Please proceed.

Um so then the kill floor went ahead.

The three people that lived across the street, and those three properties were vocal opponents against the project.

Uh an unknown buyer approached all three people, bought their houses, made them crazy cash offers to buy their houses, and Clement Sausage wound up owning all three of those properties.

They then became rental properties for Clement Sausage.

But what it really was was silencing the neighbors.

Um that is what happened.

Um I'm I'm here to voice my opposition to it.

Uh I own this building, run a business there.

I worry that myself, not myself so much because I'm almost done, but my heirs or the next people to own my property won't be able to run a business there or will be hindered because of this apartment across the street.

What kind of business do you have?

Um you do there.

We're in the we're in the pipe organ business.

My great-grandfather started the business.

We manufacture metal organ pipes for the pipe organ industry.

Okay.

Interesting.

But you ever know a Henry Wayland?

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

Character.

Um been in this, been in this neighborhood a long time.

I'm a fourth generation owner.

I'm a fourth generation Bayview resident.

Uh, as a concerned Bay Bayview person, I'd like to see better development than apartment buildings.

Uh, we've got already everybody everybody's heard about the 570 units that's not even open yet.

Uh, so we don't know how that's going to impact the neighborhood before we okay another one, right in the heart of it, not to mention the congestion and parking on Austin Street, would be insane.

And a question for the traffic engineer would be so what do we do with all the snow in the winter time?

We have one-side parking now, so we have a way to get rid of the snow.

But if there's two-sided parking on Austin Street, where's the snow go?

So uh and January, you know, the winter months that hit the hill on Austin Street is formidable.

Uh, for 50 years we've dealt with semis getting stuck in front of our place because of Clement sausage loading dock.

And I know that people being who they are, they'll get stuck in front of my shop now and plug up our access and the access to the road, because uh winter on that on Austin Street can be a bitch.

So just speaking some of the realities appreciate it.

Thank you.

Okay, how many how many square how big is your facility?

How many square feet?

Uh it's not large, it's it's 2500 square feet, uh, 5,000, including my basement.

But I do have a parking lot that I know will be full of cars by people who can't park on the street.

There won't be street parking available, so people will be parking in my lot, and I will be having them towed out because uh we've dealt with this before.

So thank you.

Okay, Mr.

Alman Jackson.

So it's almost like this Austin Street for it become like an east side street.

Is there any vision of yep?

One-way angle parking or anything like that for the future.

Um, not at this time, uh, from a traffic perspective.

Uh residential developments of this size see fairly low rates of trip generation.

Uh during the PM rush hours, I I believe their uh consultants traffic shut the study showed potentially 30 trips during the peak hour.

Again, not all of those will be made via automobile, um, many other modes.

Um, so we feel there'll be a fairly uh uh negligible traffic impact.

Um again, the parking concerns are what we've heard most from uh the public, but at this time we feel the neighborhood has sufficient parking available ability.

And again, to add to the gentleman's comments about the winter parking, we do wanna be be careful about again relaxing all of the regulations out there because there will be hampered, you know, snow removal um or street sweeping um services if we do allow it to get parked up.

So again, we're gonna take a wait and see uh approach.

And and if I may, we so we did uh solicit a traffic engineer to carry out a congestion study, and they measured six points.

Um four of the six indicated a level of service being A, a is the greatest, and then it's steps down to F.

Um of the, like I mentioned, of the six four were an A, two or a B.

Um, and they stated for traffic to really become an issue at that area.

Um traffic congestion would have to pick up by 150%.

Um, this development is only expected to attribute additional five percent, so um more than enough buffer there to be able to handle the traffic the development would bring.

And if I might just add one more comment uh to the correlation with the east side neighborhood, um I I think there might be a bit of a mischaracterization of what this area is.

Um prior to this development, there was a very active and large factory on the site.

So it hasn't been just exclusively residential or small, it frequently saw semi trucks, it frequently saw uh the kind of business activities attributable to um uh you know, a very large uh uh meat factory.

That factory is no longer there, those traffic patterns are no longer there.

Um so that fabric um that might be a little bit more similar to to the east side is not necessarily uh uh a fair comparison because of that.

Well, I'm only referring to the parking.

So, like person that could park in front of your house now.

Now you basically okay with them parking a block away from the house now or two blocks away from the house now.

That's east side, you know, etiquette.

More or less if I move to the east side, I know that I'm dealing with this.

But if I move to Bayview, I don't think that this is a problem.

This I wouldn't think that I have to park two blocks away from my house, you know.

That's all I'm referring to.

And and and uh respectfully, um I believe when they made the comment about a block away, uh he was talking about uh 50 feet, uh, which is uh using the the Lincoln Avenue street, which is adjacent to the property, um, and the current utilization of that the street that we're talking about, Austin is less than 50% usage.

So as of now, it is not in a situation where you're not able to park in front of your house, and we don't anticipate, especially with the changes that DPW is anticipating that being an issue as well.

Uh the parking concerns have not necessarily been founded with data.

Um they are um kind of assumptions uh that that are not necessarily based in the realities of the parking situation there.

I've been doing this 22 years, and I don't put a lot of faith in parking studies, particularly those paid for by the developer.

So the parking study by the DPW, where the administration is strongly supporting this project moving forward.

These are not honest studies, they're paid for studies meant to advocate for a particular outcome.

I'm relying on my personal experience of how these type of projects integrate with dense urban neighborhoods that are primarily one and two family dwellings.

So I just want to make clear I'm opposing this because by our subsidizing this project, we are facilitating and encouraging a negative land use which will adversely impact the broader neighborhood.

Very simple.

And if we don't provide a subsidy, there'll be no adverse land use, as you've testified.

I think it's a mischaracterization to say that this is harming the neighborhood.

Understood.

Mr.

Chair.

So what I what I know is this, and I've lived in other cities, Nashville and Chicago even.

Um and in Chicago when I took my car for a week and then I brought it home because it didn't make sense to have a car there for me.

Um I had to park four blocks away from the apartment.

And what I what I know is what might be a normal block around the corner and all that for a lot of other cities and in some maybe a few neighborhoods here.

Milwaukee, we're spoiled.

People want to park in front of their house.

Period.

It is a problem if they can't park in front of their house.

And so I think what you're gonna have, even if it's not a block away.

If you if you have, especially because it snows, and if you spend a time shoveling out the space in front of your house and you come home from work and somebody else is parked in front of your house, you're gonna have issues with neighbors about parking.

So I appreciate I actually appreciate the fact that you're working with DPW and it is these different scenarios that play out.

But it may be scenarios that aren't about well, they can't park anywhere over here.

It may be about I shoveled out this snow, and now one of your tenants is parking here or whatever.

So you may think about well, when we do snow removal, maybe we should do the whole block, or maybe we should do that or not.

So I would just encourage you to, if this passes to be real fluid on how you think about um respecting the neighbors in the neighborhood and and what people um have found to be comfortable in their home environment and in their neighborhood or whatever, and ways that you can pivot or can be a good neighbor um and that kind of thing, because it's very real that people just want to park in front of that house.

And if you're bringing a hundred units, even if a small percentage of them don't pay for the parking, it it it might change the dynamics of that block to the point where um residents are upset.

So if it's things you can do to help alleviate some of that, um that might not be a whole lift a parking, do this, do that.

It might be something simple, like okay, we'll shovel your smell for you.

You know what I mean?

So figure those things out and be willing to and have management that's willing to, and it pays attention to that, and lines of communication with those neighbors um around her so that it doesn't grow to be a uh a bigger um issue.

So it does if this goes through, that's just what I would encourage you to do.

Don't rely solely on the studies because people just have patterns of behavior that they're just used to here.

Okay, well, Mr.

Chair, if I could add, um DPW, we did conduct our independent studies.

Again, we're we've got our constituency in mind.

Um Austin Street directly in front of this uh development, the 2300 block, um, during the daytime, our most recent study revealed there were 21 spaces available uh in that one block at nighttime, 21 spaces.

Uh so again, if if uh tenants are not using the the spaces provided for them on site, just the block alone, we feel um there is a decent amount available.

80% of the tenants will not pay a hundred dollars a month.

Guaranteed.

Guaranteed.

And I I can't comment on that, that's outside my expertise.

I will Mr.

Chair, to that point.

Please have you all checked with some of the other larger developments in the area to see what their park up rate is.

I mean, payment for parking rate is yes, you have yes.

Like I would say that relates to the the study that we conducted because at the end of the day, we're making these commitments as owner to the investors that these parking rates are achievable, and therefore we have to have evidence that they're being garnered in the city.

Um and while this is affordable housing, I think we need to emphasize that some of the the higher income units are are comparable to that almost to market rate.

And I would suggest or it appears that a lot of the market rate complex in the city that featured paid parking, there's high utilization rates there.

So I think this is maybe being a little bit um underestimated just because it's affordable housing at the end of the day, there's uh sufficient amount of stalls that are being provided.

I will say when I said I lived on a river, that was market rate.

Yeah, people were paying thousands of dollars to live there, and they still were parking on the street.

Um so I I hear what you're saying, but again, I just have my own lived experience.

Um that says a little different, and who knows what'll actually be the case.

I just encourage you to think about all that and be able to pivot.

Because once this built is built.

And one thing is for sure is your neighbors are your neighbors, and what you definitely want to do is not be a detriment um to the neighborhood.

May I add just a point?

The core list nearby is one fifteen a month and one fifty one five oh uh for an electric charging stall.

So somewhat comparable in that it's affordable, the spectrum of affordability.

Um and then just last but not least.

What percentage are taking it up though?

That's it's Coreless is not even fully constructed or but I they have a large wait list.

I can tell you a very huge wait list to get into the core list.

Our neighborhood on residential streets though, it's kind of a complex, like a super block.

charging stall so somewhat comparable in that it's affordable the spectrum of affordability um and then just last but not least what percentage are taking it up though that at all yeah it's core list is not even fully constructed or but I they have a large wait list I can tell you a very huge wait list to get into the core list our neighborhood even on residential streets though it's kind of a complex like a super block correct Corless is on what was a former landfill and it feels kind of industrial this is a block in it is residential I mean Lincoln is com commercial not industrial um it's a block away from Hackham so we are a changing neighborhood um and also part of being a baby white is we're a welcoming neighborhood um I feel that I'll be really honest I had some severe reservations and even objections in the beginning but each question that was posed by neighbors in each meeting we had neighbors that came to each meeting communications in between we've offered many of these for the file um those questions were were answered um in closing Mr.

Chair and members and I again I truly appreciate the due diligence being done here um the on-site security remains uh I think a huge factor like all the woman cog said both in the beginning I mean we all kind of know this like in the beginning it's not just a reactionary it has to be um prospective so that will be essential here um and we've received that commitment verbally and in writing how we hold it accountable yeah that's something the city is always challenged with so once it's built we're still right I have this question for the local older person uh do you have any strong objection if we vote this down my position is I do not object to the project the will of the body is always the will of my colleagues thank you got it okay I think that's uh about exhausted the subject that Alderman Jackson would move to recommend uh adoption called a roll on adoption of the file Otterman Spyker aye Hodderman Jackson all right honorable McCox aye Hottoman Stamper Mr Chair no prevails four to one very good all right I think that concludes our agenda and we're adjourned