Myra, did you have any members of the public guided comment cards or not?

Thank you.

All right.

Moving on to item number five.

Any member of the publication during the public hearing functions required.

The Civing reviewing item Natural Heritage Commission meeting.

Times any anything add that we have before us.

I wasn't at the approve this consent.

I was uh I was out of so I would abstain for the two separate of the minutes.

Only running the audites for that.

Do them separately.

So right on the is there a motion.

Very good.

And we have a second.

I'll second.

Excellent.

And all in favor?

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

And I recuse myself.

Very good.

Thank you.

The next item is 5B for our next motion required for our minutes.

And this is from the meeting minutes from March 12th, 2026.

And uh Commissioner Tuwica must abstain.

Um other commissioners, do you have any comments at the time for these minutes?

No.

Anyone else any comments for the minutes?

Very good.

All right.

Then at this time, do I have a motion to approve the minutes as noted?

I make a motion to approve the minutes for the March 12, 2026 meeting.

Thank you.

Do I have a second?

I second it.

Very good.

All in favor?

Aye.

Abstain.

Yeah.

And aye.

All right.

Very good.

Moving on.

Um item six is consent hearings, but seeing none, we'll move on to the item number seven, public hearings and appeals.

These are items that are formally presented to the Cultural Heritage Commission and provide an opportunity for members of the public.

Oh, let's get the nomenclature correct here.

Uh to comment.

Applicants or appellants are allowed 10 minutes to present testimony at the beginning of the public hearing, and if needed, five minutes to present rebuttal at the end of the public hearing.

All other speakers will be limited to three minutes.

Tonight we have uh item 7A 845 Jefferson Street Bed and Breakfast Certificate of Appropriateness, and then moving on to a different item after that.

So at this point, we will now hear a report.

Oh, I can read what the uh actual project is into record.

Uh so item 7a is 845 Jefferson Street Bed and Breakfast Certificate of Appropriateness, an application for certificate appropriateness to allow major modifications to a local landmark with contributing status to the first in Jefferson potential historic district, including installation of windows, doors, and railings, also the relocation of existing doors and windows, and the restoration of missing historic features, including a chimney, unoriginal wind and unoriginal windows.

The property is located within the commercial OC and traffic impact TI overlay zoning districts, and at this time staff has determined that the project is exempt from the California Environmental Quality Act of the CEQA guidelines, which exempts the operation repair maintenance permitting, leasing, licensing, and minor alterations of existing public or private structures, facilities, mechanical equipment, or topographical features involving negligible or no expansion of existing or former use, and section 15331, which exempts the maintenance, repair, stabilization, rehabilitation, restoration, preservation, conservation, or reconstruction of historical resources in a manner consistent with the Secretary of Interior Standards for the treatment of historic properties.

The recommended action staff recommends the Cultural Heritage Commission will forward a recommendation to the City Council to adopt a resolution to approve the certificate of appropriate to allow alterations to this local landmark within a potential historic district and determining the project is exempt from the California Environmental Quality Act, otherwise known as CEQA.

So now I think we can have our staff report.

Good evening, everybody.

I'll be presenting on the proposed project at 845 Jefferson Street.

Um we also have the applicant here, Michael Clark, who'll be presenting later in the meeting.

As we just heard, this is a request for a certificate of appropriateness to allow major modifications to a local landmark in a potential historic district.

Um this project also includes a use permit to allow conversion to a bed and breakfast inn.

Um I just want to highlight that uh the Cultural Heritage Commission's purview really um extends only to the certificate of appropriateness permit and the modifications to the historic structure rather than the use permit.

The property is located at the southwest corner of Jefferson and 2nd Street.

The site is bordered by an established residential neighborhood to the west, another home to office conversions along Jefferson Street, and a couple other bed and breakfast inns.

The property is also located within the first and Jefferson potential historic district.

This district was recognized as eligible for the National Register and the California Register of Historic Resources in 2010 when the city commissioned the West Snappa Historic Survey.

The property is a local landmark.

It's constructed in the prairie style.

It is one of few, if not the only prairie-style building in Napa.

It's a work of the architect, notable local architect Luther Turton.

It was constructed for Henry J.

Manasseh, the son of the owner of the Sawyer Tannery, a major local industry at the time.

Here is pictures of the rear and side facades and the accessory structure, garage at the rear of the property.

And then here are some photos of smaller details of the site.

You can notice the property's deep eaves with unique lattice details, the dental molding, the porches columns, which would be restored with the project, and the unique planner boxes integrated into the structure's chimney or formerly where the chimney was located.

The property has been modified significantly over the years.

While originally constructed as a residence, it was converted to a dental office in the 1950s.

We were able to locate the use permit.

It was a fully permitted conversion in the 1950s.

In addition, the home, the structure experienced significant damage in the 2014 earthquake, including loss of the significant chimney.

In addition, the porch was enclosed with windows after its original construction.

The proposed project would include reconstruction of missing features, reconstruction and restoration of missing features, including the structure's chimney, removal and replacement of inappropriate windows with more historically appropriate windows, and restoration of the front porch off of 2nd Street.

Also included in the project are modifications, including the addition of new railings, additions of new windows and doors, and an ADA lift at the rear.

The entitlements required with the project are a certificate of appropriateness permit for the restoration and modifications, and separately a use permit for the conversion to a bed and breakfast in.

Going through the modifications in detail, starting with the front facade.

Modifications on this facade are pretty limited as it's a you know very visible character defining facade.

The applicant proposes removing and replacing the inappropriate living room window with a more historically appropriate window relocated from another part of the home.

Along the north facade, along second street, the applicant proposes reconstruction of the chimney, removal and replacement of the inappropriate windows flanking the chimney, restoration of the porch, include including removing inappropriate windows, and then installation of a new railing off the porch roof.

Along the rear facade, on the first level, the applicant proposes removal of three existing windows and installation of a new relocated window.

At the second level, the applicant proposes installation of a new door and a new railing for that guest suite.

Then along the south facade, the interior side, this is where the highest number of modifications are proposed.

On the first level, the applicant proposes the removal of four existing windows, installation of a new window and door and porch at the rear for the ADA lift, and installation of a new porch and French doors at the front.

On the second level, the applicant proposes removal of one existing window and installation of new French doors and a railing.

This is the project's proposed site plan.

There's very few site modifications proposed.

The applicant requested an exception to allow a continuation of the nonconforming parking in the side yard of the site.

This was requested so they could preserve the garage in the rear yard.

The garage is present on all the historic maps we reviewed.

It was likely constructed with the home, so it could be considered a historic accessory structure.

Staff was happy to support this exception.

There's goals and policies throughout the general plan, both in the historic and cultural resources element and the transportation element to support flexibility in parking requirements in relationships with historic structures.

And then these are some project details, up close of the new railings proposed and the new windows and doors proposed.

Any new window was based off of existing windows in the home, any new window or door, excuse me.

The home has existing French doors along the north facade on the second level, opening on to the porch roof.

All new French doors are based on those doors.

Moving into analysis, staff determined that the project would be exempt from CEQA.

And in order to approve the project, the city council would need to make the findings for a certificate of appropriateness.

And with that, staff recommends that the Cultural Heritage Commission forward a recommendation to City Council to adopt a resolution to approve a certificate of appropriateness for the project.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

I appreciate that.

At this time, I would like to invite the commissioners to ask any questions of staff if they had that at this time.

I have no question.

No questions.

No questions.

No questions.

And I don't either, except for the applicant.

So moving right along, we'd like to invite the applicant up if they'd like, or representative of the applicants for a pre short presentation or information.

And if you'd state your name and address, that would be appreciated.

Hi, Michael Clark.

Residential address or the residential, your home address.

My home address.

Okay.

6160 Washington Street, Youngville.

Great.

So as I said, I'm Michael Clark.

I'm the applicant for the Jefferson Project.

I am, I have met Karen recently, but I haven't met the rest of you.

I actually am a fifth generation native of Napa.

So, so the um the Henry uh J.

Manasseh house was built in um 1917.

Probably should use my glasses.

Um on a prominent corner of 2nd and um Jefferson Street.

The architect um is Luther Thurton.

However, yesterday, Karen visited um with me to take a tour of the house, and she noticed on one of the panels of one of the walls, um, William H.

Uh Corlett's name is on the panel.

So today I actually um contacted landmarks and contacted the historical society um to find out um, you know, was he the builder, or could he possibly also have been the architect of the house?

So um, well, that's exciting.

It is exciting, actually, and I did a lot of research last night just kind of on his designs and everything, and I don't know.

Looking at it, it could be a possibility.

He was actually the architect of the house.

So, what I'm showing here is just recent photos, which uh Paul has recently just showed some of the same photos as well.

Um these recent photos kind of tell the condition of the house.

Um the project is to um to you know reuse this historic structure as mentioned as a bed and glory uh bed and breakfast and to restore it to its original glory.

Um, although the structure is in good condition itself, um there's been a lot of inappropriate changes over the years, which would attend is to uh reverse those and also um as well fix some of the maintenance issues.

Um the recent so the most recent photo or the most excuse me, well, the only photos we can find of the house were taken um in 1977 when the house um was actually listed on the um historic resource.

Um so in this you can actually see the original chimney, which however has been painted white, and then it it also shows the the windows on each side of the uh chimney have been replaced, and the one in the front of the house.

So I would think that those were done for the dentist office in the 1950s when those windows were actually replaced on the house.

So on this photo, if you look closely, because this is how I figured out where the original balcony is, on each side of the door, um the French door that's up on the upper porch, you see the white lines on each side.

So those are actually now, of course, been painted brown, but it's still there.

Um so I believe that that is actually where the original um railings were attached to the house.

Um so this this shows our rendering um of the property um once we transform and add the um chimney and everything back to the house.

Um so the so the intent here is to um restore.

We're gonna be restoring the original living room and dining room, um converting um four rooms into luxury guest suites, and then the upstairs uh main hall will be um transformed into a library.

Um all the original windows um will excuse me, all the non-original windows will be um replaced um with either existing windows or like windows um designed to look like the originals, um and then the um the front porch will be returned to its original design as well as shown in the picture.

And then this last slide shows the um site plan.

Um so the historic garage we would like to see kept on property.

Um so we're asking that um we can use the existing parking um and so that we don't we don't actually also lose the back garden area of the house.

Um and then landscaping will be done to the project as well.

So I think it'll be a nice addition restored for the corner of second and Jefferson.

So okay.

Excellent, thank you.

Um are there any questions at this time for the applicant?

Go please.

Sure.

I I don't really have a question.

I'm just pleased to see that the Go ahead.

Go right ahead.

Go ahead.

Yep.

I was just pleased to see that the windows were going to be uh replaced to something more appropriate.

That was always one of my favorite houses in that neighborhood, and sad to see that that change had been made.

Right.

Um, especially those sliders, you know, the vinyl sliders are just terrible on the house like that.

Um, no, even the front windows as growing up as a child, I always thought it had been built as an office building just because it did, you know, didn't look original to the structure.

Right.

So I think you've done a fine job here.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I have a question about the garage.

Um, are there plans for different doors for the garage?

There definitely is, yes.

There's no picture of that though.

I haven't done any pictures of no of the garage, but we can we can actually design some pictures of that too.

So I'd like to restore that as well.

I I believe it was renovated maybe ten years ago or something, so they've lost some of the original details that we'd like to actually put back.

So Commissioner Wesson.

I had one question right now.

Um, it said in some of the reports that you're going to go back to the original colors of the house.

Am I correct in that understanding?

And how do you know what those colors are?

And which paint company might you be so uh, you know, I that may have something we tried to do originally.

I don't know we're gonna go back to original colors.

I think it was probably trimmed in kind of a bright green that was typical of the time period.

Um, and I think we'd probably we'll probably go with a green, but I'm thinking of going with something much more uh deeper in color than that.

So and as far as the the rest of the structure, I think we'll be keeping in a dark brown color.

That is a very dark brown on the house.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So um yeah, I actually looked into having I've done other projects where I've actually had the shingles sandblasted um and you know, and restore the shingles, but the person I have do that took a look at this house and said it's just they're not in shape to, you know, to do that too at this point.

So where we replace them, however, we probably will be doing um some sandblasting to add texture so that and then paint them prior to putting on so that we can blend them all in so they look the new shingles, the new ones exactly where they need to be replaced, right?

Um, okay, very good.

Um I was just curious.

Uh, but you know, brown, it's already brown.

It just it's that's a rendering, so very good.

Yes.

Okay.

Excellent.

Um uh were there any other questions at this time?

I I don't have any questions.

I just really appreciate your sensitivity to the house and um caring about uh what you're doing is uh as authentic as you can and get it this time.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um Commissioner McKinney, do you have any other questions at this time for the applicant?

Um let's see.

I'm going to now um ask the applicant, you may sit down, and I'm gonna open this up for public comment if uh if this is a good time.

Staff, are there any public comments on this project?

I did not receive any public comment information cards.

Okay, very good.

Um perhaps I should have maybe talked about it, but I earlier had a I did have a question, maybe it's for both, and it has to do with um some of the clarification in the windows schedule and the plans.

And I know you can probably work with staff, but um I think you need to work with your designer because for such a project, which I think is fantastic, it helps the commission and it will help uh the building department if your plans match your window and door schedule.

And uh without going into it, I did.

Uh at this time the numbering does not match the the elevations from the plan on your window and door schedule, and they're not actually window and door schedules, it's kind of just a numbering all the way through the windows and the doors.

So, what's so important, which is fantastic, which you're highlighting, is that you have historic windows, historic doors, which ones you're saving and where they're going.

And right now it's it's just it uh the it's not working on the window and door schedules.

So I'm just I think it's more of a question, but I think with your designer and working with staff and then building department, you'll be able to rectify that.

But for our historic purposes and window changes, it is so important that they're documented uh for uh I think the benefit of staff and the commission and then your your builders.

So I I could certainly make recommendations or you know, I think staff is more than capable to help you with that in that regard.

Um so uh just because that's how people do takeoffs, that's how they figure out your numbers, and that's how there's consistency.

Um, the only other thing I see your historic building code is represented under codes, just the more you talk about historic building code and and name it on your cover page, the better, so under some of the cover notes because you are fully under the historic building code, and that helps your project.

Uh that was just one other thing.

So, with the changes of your window and door schedule, you're gonna update the the index to match too, which is just you know minor things, but uh because we've seen so much of this come before the commission, the more clear it is, the better for um the staff and for us, and that you get the project you ultimately want.

Um, and uh the only other question I had, and maybe that's down the line, um, is just um wondering if you had considered, and maybe this comes later, but um uh talking about a MILS Act uh for your property because this is this is a beautiful property.

You have done an amazing job uh with your um with your designers and yourselves to bring this back to its glory, and that might be something you might consider, and you can talk to staff about it to help you along your way to keep your building uh preserved in the manner in which you want, and that's uh it's they can help you understand it.

It's a 10-year tax relief that helps you continue with your renovations uh and and keep it in its in its form that you're trying to create, so with its historic integrity and and uh beauty that you're looking for.

So that was just something I wanted to put out there.

So um, sure.

If I can step in before we go too far.

And then I just I did have another question, but that is something that staff would have to recommend or work with you.

If you could, you could you need you need to close the public hearing and have a motion to close the public.

I will do that.

So let me close the public hearing.

My apology.

Uh since we haven't been here for a while, my process is a little bit off.

Um so at this time I'd like to close the public hearing then.

And also, there was another item.

Uh what can we motion for that?

Sorry, no, we don't actually.

Sorry.

My apologies, we haven't been here for a bit.

Uh, do I have a motion on the closure of our public comment time?

I'll make a motion to close the public hearing.

And a second.

I second.

And all in favor?

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Very good.

And what I failed to do since we haven't been here for a bit, or I haven't, um, we need to also do disclosures.

So I failed to do that, which I think is important.

So at this time, can I have the commissioners uh provide disclosures?

No disclosures.

I went by the house, walked by the house in the past few days, and did not talk to anyone.

Very good.

I met with the applicant um yesterday and toured the home.

And I know the property well and have driven around it and and walked around it just the other uh last weekend, I think it was.

So that's the disclosures at this time.

Um, so having that we've closed public comments at this time, um, would the applicant wish to make any final comments at this time about the process and your project?

You yes, you're more than welcome to.

No, sorry.

Just want to thank you for your input.

So with the Mills Act, windows, those sorts of things, we'll make sure we get that straightened out.

So thank you.

You're very welcome.

And are there any additional comments or questions for staff or for the applicant from us at this time?

Any other thoughts by the commission that they'd like to say anything and or thoughts about this project at this time?

Nope.

Very good.

Well, once again, a wonderful project.

Um, so can we hear a motion to all in favor or excuse me?

Can we have a motion for this?

And please read the project as it's noted as far as uh the written description and item under CEQA.

Do I have a motion?

I'll make a motion.

Um I make a motion that staff recommends that the Cultural Heritage Commission forward a recommendation to the City Council to adopt a resolution approving a certificate of appropriateness to allow alterations to a local landmark within a potential historic district and determining that the project is exempt from the California Environmental Quality Act.

And at this time, do I add about updating the plans?

You could say you included with the with the direction to staff to update the work to the applicant to update the plans for the window and door schedule.

I should also add that we will also ensure that that's noted also when the building permits come in.

So we'll be very clear the building permits, but the applicant can also, based on your direction, update his window schedule for the file.

Very good.

As noted.

As noted, yes, what he said.

So that we have a motion.

Do we have a second?

I'll second that.

Excellent.

All in favor?

I and I.

So excellent.

Very excited.

Another great project for our city in such a beautiful corner.

So thank you for your time and effort.

Yep.

Very good.

Excellent.

Well, moving on to our next item.

Um, item eight, administrative reports.

Um, administrative report items include reports and recommendations from the city staff that do not require a public hearing prior to action by the commission.

The commission may take action if the agenda description provides for it.

Only the Cultural Heritage Commission may authorize public input for these items.

And I think that we might have some public members that uh may have some public testimony.

So tonight we have um item 8A, which is the Napa Bajo Fuller Park National Register District signage program.

And staff at this time will give us a presentation, please.

Perfect.

So this next presentation was the results of the Commission's direction to add an item discussing the signage program and the addition of signage for the Napa Bajo Fuller Park National Register District.

Um for context.

Um at the March 12, 2026 hearing, the commission directed staff to add an item to tonight's agenda.

Um discussion of a signage program for the city's historic districts began in 2012.

Um, and 2017 plans for the program were finalized, and in 2020, the first signs were installed for the Calistoga Avenue local landmark district.

Um, this is the only district where signs have been installed so far.

Um, these are the existing signs for the Calistoga district.

Um, as you can see, they're pretty much aligned with what is included in the sign program that was included as an attachment.

Um, but I will note that the bronze medallion um have been removed from the signs.

Um the signage program includes signage for all ten historic districts recognized by the city.

Um this specific request is only for signage for the Napa Bajo Fuller Park District within that program um regular poll signs were included and some informational signage as I described in the report when the uh Calistoga um portion of the project was being discussed.

It was found that the informational signage was um costly and it was tough to find a location to fit the signs on public property.

Ultimately, they would have needed to find a location on private property, but there were ultimately issues with that approach.

Um, these are the signs that were prepared for the Napa Abaho district up close, as you can see, the two poll signs and then the informational signs.

Um for context, the Napa Abaho Fuller Park National Register District was added to the National Register in 1997.

It encompasses 120 acres and 249 historic resources.

Um, the period of significance for the district is the 1860s through World War I.

The biggest consideration for this project is that the city council would need to allocate funding.

In preparing the report, I got some quotes from a couple of different sign manufacturers.

10 signs is estimated to cost between 19 and 20,000.

If they're double-sided, like for a poll sign, you need two signs, one on each side, that'd be 38 to 40,000.

Previously, the project was funded through CIP Capital Improvement Project Funds.

Going forward, that's not necessarily the pot of money that it would need to come from.

That's just how it occurred in the past.

To use CIP funds, though, the council would need to find strong community support.

They need to find that signage would support city operations, and it would need to align with the established council priorities.

In addition, a plan for the location of the signs would need to be considered.

Sign locations would need to comply with all visibility and ADA requirements, and they couldn't obviously they could not black view of other traffic signs.

And with that, staff recommends that you guys discuss the program and potentially make a recommendation to City Council to allocate funding towards the project.

Thank you.

Great.

Thank you very much.

At this time, I would like to allow for public comments.

So I'm opening that up at this time for public comments, please.

And if you would, please state your name and address.

Thank you.

Hi.

Hi everyone.

I'm Maureen Tripp, and I live at 438 Coombs, Coombs between Oak and Laurel.

And this is my third appearance in front of this commission to ask for support to expand the historic district signage program from Calistoga district to Abajo Napa Fuller Park.

I've got a children's book that is my absolute favorite, and it's called What to Do with an Idea.

And it's to help children understand how ideas can grow and expand and take shape and help other people think differently.

And it's a message for children just to not give up if you've got the imagination for a good idea.

And what I see here, the original uh part that you were talking about back to 2012, what I see is a really good idea on a very slow roll.

I applaud this commission for getting the Calistoga district signage up, and I believe that was the last public meeting before COVID.

So obviously things were going to slow down there.

But when you have a great idea, and you want to take it to market, you need a minimum viable product.

That's an MVP.

We have that.

You need a proof of concept.

We have that.

And I think what we need now is momentum, commitment, some good timing, and some goodwill.

And I think we can get all that done.

The Riverside Drive paving project.

If anybody has noticed, we're on a paving spree in Napa, largely due to Measure G, but the city has a um uh a huge schedule.

It's called the Napa Neighborhood Street and Sidewalk Paving Program.

Um, Riverside Drive is what public works calls the Abajo Napa Fuller Park area.

So the Riverside Drive Paving Project, which is coming, essentially takes all of the streets from Fuller Park down to the river.

That project is coming in 2027.

It's a four million dollar project.

Uh, so 40,000 would be 1% of that.

I think this is a very doable ask.

Request your help to go forward to city council.

Ask for their support.

Uh from the community, we'll do what we can to find funding.

Uh, maybe some grant support.

If the Gasser Foundation can provide some funding for pickleball courts.

Maybe we could do a little something more downtown.

I spoke to City Council back in May, and I recognize the constant challenge of the city budget, but when every dollar is already spoken for, it can be really difficult to find room for new ideas.

Yet ideas, innovation, and imagination are the very core of our growth as a city and an investment in our community of connected neighborhoods.

Thanks so much for your support.

Thank you very much.

Appreciate that.

Are there any other members of the public at this time that would like to um give a comment?

Very good.

Seeing none, I'll move to our commissioners.

Do you have some questions or comments for staff at this time?

I do.

Very good.

Thank you.

Commissioner Wesson.

If you could close public comment first, my apologies.

Once again, I just want you guys to keep adding comments, so I don't want to actually close it.

So can we close the public comment at this time?

I have a motion.

I'll make a motion to close the public hearing.

Second?

Second?

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Aye.

Thank you.

Now we may have comments.

I'm curious as on the district map that you have in the report that you showed up there.

Why is that map different for the Napa Bajo area?

Different than the one made in 1853.

So this is showing the historic district rather than like the original like plot map from when it was subdivided.

So this was the established historic district.

Okay.

So if your house was in this Napa Bajo map, it may not be in the district.

Exactly.

Right.

And that would be the same for Fuller Park?

Yes.

Okay.

And then how many signs are there in the Kalistoga district?

I believe there's four.

And what did we spend on that?

Um I do not remember off the top of my head.

I think it was around $50,000, but um I don't, I don't remember the exact number.

Thank you.

Very good.

Any more at this time?

Uh Commissioner Toika?

Yeah, I have a question.

Um, when the commission reviewed this project back before the Calistoga signs were placed.

Uh at that time, I don't remember, but I wasn't here when it started, of course, in 2012 on the commission.

But did we actually make a recommendation at that time that all of the signs as as they were proposed in the Amy Lind uh design be forwarded to council?

Yes, in 2017 the design was finalized and uh forwarded to city council.

And the funding was only for the Calistoga district.

Exactly.

Now my second question is the plans as they're shown today, say draft on them.

Will that will Amy Lynn update the uh plans to be finalized before it goes to council?

Um that would be a separate discussion whether uh we want changes or if there's you know I'm just curious as to why it still says draft when those were the ones that were finally approved by the council action.

Uh I would guess.

Um this was what was present in the records.

Um I just think it's uh clerical error that it still says.

Okay.

So these are the final plans and not the draft plans.

Yes.

Right.

Okay.

They were adopted.

Once they were adopted, the no one efforts went back and changed the plans.

Okay, we can just watch that.

We clear here if there's something else that needs to be fixed before it goes to council.

If the council members look at it and say, well, this says draft, how are we going to deal with that?

Yeah.

We'll make sure they know these are the approved plans.

So on the design, does that mean that is going to be the design?

Is that your interpretation?

Or is it open to um redesign?

Well, that's kind of why I asked if they were draft as to whether we're finalized if if this has been finalized by both this commission back and the council.

And I think that it was.

But it was, but I think somehow maybe we don't have the final plans here.

I the plans that the council adopted are the plans that are that are adopted.

The fact that the USA draft, didn't that they just was it wasn't changed because that was what went to the commission or the council.

And there was no council because they approve it, doesn't automatically make this disappear.

We just didn't take it off.

Okay.

But the the plans that were reviewed by the council and adopted are the plans that we will go off of.

Okay.

For all the districts.

Well, for all the everything that was approved by the council at that time, yes.

Right, and that's what was in front of us tonight.

Yes.

Okay, thank you.

That is the nine districts.

Correct.

And one has been implemented.

Exactly.

Correct.

So nothing has changed in these documents.

When it goes to a council for approval, are they approving those specific designs?

There was nothing approved going for approval at this point.

There was our these the plans have already been approved.

So they're already approved.

It's just a matter of the the this council did uh allocate funds to do the the Calistoga signs before we didn't have funding for anything else.

That fell by the wayside given some other factors that were going in with public works really.

And that's what the commission is asking staff to bring for them, is asking council to look into a way of funding the additional signs.

So it'll be up to the council to decide if they can find funding and where it would come from.

So the issue before us is asking is stating that we approve the uh concept and asking them for funding.

These have all been approved.

You're just now asking you're uh asking the committee council to find funding to help implement the rest of these signs or at least another portion of the signs.

We're forwarding that we that this has already been approved, but we want council now to take it to the next level and take these approved plans and find funding to implement this historic signage program, whether it be all at once or in a phased approach over time.

But we need to find funding to finalize what has already been done and approved.

That's my understanding.

Correct.

Council would have to allocate to city staff public works the the funding mechanism and then create a program to make it happen.

But if you feel like it needs a redesign, well, if that's what you feel like, uh the the commission would have to ask staff to look into that.

We'd have to find funding for a program to actually hire someone to redesign these plans that have already been paid for, that would probably that would require council also approval to to make those changes.

So it's within the commission's uh discretion to request that modification, but it's gonna be up to council if they would do it.

Because so that I mean I'm also thinking there should be a separation assigned for Napa Abaho and a different sign for Fuller Park, and that is not in the plans.

That would require modification of the plan.

Right.

I mean, I I just did like a really rough kind of redesign.

So the buttons the one commissioner can't do that.

It would have to be it would have to go through a process, public hearing with council finally approving it.

It would require funding from staff to actually implement this plan.

Unfortunately, we can't just take your own.

Oh, I know.

I'm just saying that in order to separate the two, you would need two different designs.

Um, you would that's what you wish, that's you believe I.

Right.

But it's been how long has it been called uh Napa Bajo Fuller Park district under the federal since the early 90s.

That's the that's the historic district designation, right?

Yes, it is, yes, correct.

Umright there were two different maps.

Well, that's not what was designed.

There's only one adopted by the federal government.

That's right.

Well, that there were two different districts originally citation at this point is is as it is, the national register designation.

That could be changed, but right now that's what I think.

That's a major time thing and crunch and money.

I would add a little bit more time to getting these signs installed.

Yeah, what is the um, so I I hear what you're saying, but that would definitely take a great deal of time and effort to do that.

And I yeah, you'd have to hire the federal government has already created the district under that name.

It is a federally recognized one, not yet local.

So we have to get it anyway.

There's a comment on the on the table.

Um were there other ideas under your comments at this time.

I'm trying to offer if uh Commissioner McKinney has any comments too to go with with where we are.

I didn't know if you were finished with your idea, is what I'm saying, or with this um the thought.

Uh no, I think I've explained it.

Thank you.

Very good.

Commissioner McKinney, do you have any comments at this time?

I have a little bit different um perspective on it.

I would I was actually thinking that it would be powerful to have consistency for the historic signage, so that there's kind of an immediate recognition of what people are going to read.

So I guess also given how long it would potentially take to change everything and pay a designer and all of that, it's you know, just kind of kicking the can down the road for actually getting it made.

Uh where to start.

Uh there is a great amount.

Um, uh, but I think it's more than actually the lacks on the sidewalk.

Yes.

And that's why it's not a lot.

That's that's where I'm also coming to.

So thank you.

Uh member of the public.

Um, they so where the history lies, and I'd be happy to, we haven't had a chance to talk as a commission, I think, and I don't know how we would do that, but uh where the start of it all lies was Napa County Landmarks, the idea of getting these historic signage programs for our all of our potential districts.

Um, and the idea was to try to start this, the momentum, and really that was when it came to the point of hiring a graphic designer uh that had attention to the history of the city of Napa, knowledge of it, uh uh graphic skills that could create a signage program emblematic of other districts around uh California and the nation, and uh that was of a quality that would be beneficial and representative of our city.

So the the impetus began with getting a graphic designer and this person was vetted Lynn Design Studio and worked with the city uh but prior to 2017.

Um the process in which that um happened was there was a subcommittee formed of the commissioners, uh, including myself, Beverly Shotwell, we had a planning member and Lynn Design Studio and the signage uh fabricator at Bell Products and Signage Maker working closely with public works.

So the way that the migration to this design came from was that each district, nine of them had a special historic character to that district, which I think any historian or graphic designer would have searched for.

And the each of the signs, as you can tell, had to the idea of that that sign representative what was representative of what the heritage was for each one of the districts.

So the process led you to these nine districts with the signage wayfinding signs on the polls that are as we see them now.

So it's gone back for years, multiple designs, multiple iterations, and in that subcommittee, every design came through to the commission, came with staff.

There was uh collaboration, public works, collaboration, trying to figure out what could work, the height, what polls were appropriate throughout the entire district, any of the districts, and um how the wayfinding signs would have the most effect for a walker, biker, or those traveling in a car.

There was an idea for a long time just to put them up on the street signs, you know.

So you have your Oak Street and Coombs and then put it right underneath, like you know, whatever district that would be.

I just threw that out there, and really highly ineffective as far as marking a historic district was decided by the commission and the team.

And a lot of it in uh other places, it doesn't give you wayfinding, it doesn't really mark the district is what we came up with as uh as a commission and a subcommittee.

So there were hours that went into these designs, major discussions about whether it would just be one side or double sided, and you can have less signs if you go with double sided because then you have the effect of coming and going uh for the wayfinding.

So that's how we ended up with the double side.

Uh although it's more expensive, you can have less polls because and less signs because you've given uh front and back message versus putting many in one area, like around the park.

The other thing that was important, and like was said, we talked about these medallions in the ground.

That was like an addition that you could give credence to all those historic structures that did really fine work and and allow them to get some recognition.

Those are very expensive.

So those I think in the consideration, I think going forward would not be a part of it because the bronze and the process to make those were are pretty expensive and not necessary, I think.

However, one of the biggest things that was important to all of us and was in process were the monument signs.

So you can see those in the design and the monument signs were important because not only did you give um more of an effort to the neighborhood, you were able to basically tell them this is a significant corner, here's some history, and the idea of possibility was that you could have similar to the artwork, have a QR code and be able to scan it and take a self-guided walking tour.

In the idea was to work with Napa County Landmarks or the Historical Society or the library, you know, somebody that was willing to write and manage the um walking tours and the QR code, of which Napa County Landmarks already has so many of those tours.

So that was a big point in having the um the, you know, the large monument signs.

And it could, there's different designs of ways that could work.

So it wasn't just an idea, just to give you that, and I'll I'll wrap it up.

We actually found a site working with our subcommittee, working with public works, but more importantly, we found a private resident that was willing to put that sign on their property on their property in an appropriate area that public works said would be doable.

And so we were in the process of getting the easements to make it happen, and then our friend, the pandemic hit, and it all went on, it just stopped.

And so the we thank goodness got the side, signs built and designed and done and up the day before they closed us down.

So to start to start the process again wasn't it is years of work, and I think at years of delay, and I think the tough thing in considering that is that it could delay this further.

And when you delay, as we all know, you get more costs, you get higher costs with materials, time, everything.

And so that is just where that's just where the process was.

And not all that's in writing, and I feel honored that I've been here this long and have been able to be a part of it.

And so, anyway, I I don't think there's a problem maybe to tweak it, but I you know, that would be staff, it then changes the design, and then it it changes the process.

So I feel like uh where we are is that we have plans approved, they're in place, they were approved by council.

Now the idea is how do we take it forward to get them going, get them out there, get them improved, and figure out how we can have each neighborhood get their neighborhood um designated as a local district because that's what is required, and then get these signs going and installed, and really you don't need that many, I think, per neighborhood because the signs are pretty pretty significant versus the signs on your road roadway signage.

So it's uh and I I think um I reached out to the designer.

Uh they had not been contacted, I think, by the city at this time.

I think the design firm would be willing to talk with us, talk with the staff, help out in any way needed, or if not, and um and who that who they worked with uh privately to get the signs built, and as the subcommittee, we worked with public works.

We also last point walked the entire Napa Bajo Fuller Park District and found as I told um our staff member earlier, we found locations to put these signs in.

So at some place I'm pretty sure it was documented where where we cho where we were able to find signs uh based on what we the public works requirements.

So Napa Bajo, we already located where the signs could go, and based on the subcommittee public works, a planner walked with us, and I can't remember who else.

But I don't know where that is.

I'd have to look way back in my notes, but I think um the city could probably find them.

So anyway, that it's just a little history, and um the only other thing, no matter what where we go, and the commission should we have to understand this is and I think it might be something we could talk to staff about is this unless somebody tells us otherwise, and uh Commissioner Towica had a different understanding, we need to designate the Napa Bajo Fuller Park as a local as a local landmark district before we can get the signage into the district, it wasn't that I had a different, no, just an understanding of different understanding.

It's just that many cities do it differently that when a national register pro uh area is designated, it automatically becomes a local district, and that's not how the charter apparently is in Napa.

So my question to us all is and where I'm coming from is um if we choose to send this on to the the council to review and to put forward for funding, there would probably be an ask for the staff to tell us how we could take this prior to them approving it, or at least on the tail of it as soon as possible.

How do we get staff to advise us to get this to become a local landmark?

So for Napa Bajo.

So that's a question if we could ask them to agendize it, or how do you go forth?

So it's definitely two separate things.

The signage program and becoming a little bit.

Of course, most definitely.

Um that would you know would be a completely separate ask of staff?

Of course.

Um but uh like it explains in the code, um, a local landmark district can be nominated by members of the public or city council or the cultural heritage commission.

So it would have to follow the process in the code.

I have a question.

Is it really necessary to make it a local landmark district in order to have the signage or not?

Definitely not.

Um, do this.

Very good.

Right.

Yeah.

Okay.

Right.

Well, that's okay.

Then that needs to be noted, and uh, they I don't think that has any bearing on it.

We have a national register designated district, which is the highest level.

Of course, uh I would concur.

So as long as that's definitive, I I've heard it both ways.

So then it wouldn't need need to be the case.

But all the other ones, other than Calistoga, which have have it now, are potential historic districts.

So that would be something that council Well that that's a whole nother process.

A whole nother process.

Right.

But the idea is, yeah, at some point.

I we've talked about it so many times.

How to keep this signage program going in a phased approach that could be planned with a you know incremental uh you know increase in budgeting if we could get it per each district.

It's just uh thought.

So because if this program has wallowed many times because the funding isn't there, and how do you plan ahead?

Other, you know, it's like a maintenance pro program.

You put you have plan maintenance in your budgets to go forward.

So how would you keep it going?

It's a it's a thought.

Well, just to summarize all this, we have a plan that's approved.

We need the funding.

That's what it comes down to.

That is exactly where it comes to.

And the only way we can get the funding is forwarding it to council and then seeing seeing where both public and private maybe can be in partnership.

So, the plan is the design that's alright that's in here because I I don't approve of the design because I don't think an anchor is reflective of the entire district.

It is like in the Napa Bajo area, we're talking bankers, we're talking store owners, for the most part, and especially in the larger homes, and there really aren't that many ship captains in the entire historic district.

So I don't think an anchor really reflects what that historic district is.

If I could help step in here, I I hear everything you're saying, uh, Commissioner.

Uh unfortunately, what's a what what we what we're dealing with is an approved plan already.

And you heard a pretty lengthy explanation from from Commissioner Van Giesen the time and effort that went into this.

So if there's a desire to try to change this, that's gonna be a whole new can of worms.

A whole there'll be funding we have to look for.

It isn't a matter of just getting staff to just work on it.

We have to find a funding mechanism to get the the staff that's gonna actually help us redesign this, and there'll be it'll be it's kind of like going back to square one.

So that's not a simple ask, and that's not what's on the agenda tonight, also.

What's on the agenda tonight was the request that we go forward to council to request funding for what's already been approved and what's already been initiated.

So if the commission wants to entertain modifying this, then we're gonna have to go back to square one, we'll have to bring that back, and we're gonna have to look for ways to even finance it, and that'll probably also require council approval to even initiate that.

So that just puts any implementation back probably years.

So it's up to the commission what they want to do, but understand what's on the agenda tonight is not a request to modify this plan, it's already approved.

The request is to seek funding to kind of implement more of this plan that was approved by the council years ago.

So the commission has to decide what they're what they're wanting to do, but we have to also stand by what's been noticed and agendized today, and that's just the request to go to council for funding.

But is it appropriate to go with I mean, this is my opinion, with a design that isn't really appropriate for the district.

I have to say that's your opinion.

Apparently the people that adopted this felt that it was a it was a long Commissioner Van Geese and you were there that we had a lot of a lot of input that got to this point.

Yes, I understand.

So I understand your opinion, but I'm saying it's your opinion.

You can't say that's what the commission feels or believes.

And it wasn't just me.

There were multiple people over multiple years that worked on this uh process, and uh multiple people that vetted the design and the history behind some of it.

So I would I would ask the commission to kind of stay on course with what has been on the agenda now.

Right.

Either you want us to go forward and ask for funding to get this moving along, or else you ask us to consider uh another a new program, which we'd have to go to get council approval with too, and that will be a long process.

And whether the funding's there for that at this point, I I couldn't speak to that.

It's up for the council.

Right.

It would not only be funding for implementation, but it would be funding for design working for the for the plan, yes, right.

Right.

But it would be a big process.

Doesn't have the uh will ability to create this.

We have to hire a designer, and uh that's that's an expense right there.

Unless it was not a cheap plan, is are you allowing this public discussion?

Um I will allow for this additional public comment, but you'll need to come to the uh dice to the speaker and please state your name, address, and uh three minute space.

Um, Maureen Trip of 438 Coomb Street, just a question on the process for all of this.

If this goes forward to the city council and someone on city council asks for a design change, what would that mean?

Would they have to then fund you know new design and take it on themselves, or would they have to bring it back to you?

The council would have to direct staff to uh initiate a new project that they would have to also or and it wouldn't happen at that meeting, but we'd have to do we'd have to determine a funding mechanism because it's it's gonna involve more than just staff time.

We would have to hire consultants, so therefore the council would have to designate where those funds come from for staff to move forward.

Okay.

So it'd be up to council.

Okay, okay.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Do I have to close public comment again?

Okay.

Very good.

Um any other public comment at this time?

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

A lot of coffee.

Um, so then we would have a motion to approve pushing this forward.

Is that correct?

And a motion and a second to the project.

You're not approving anything.

You're it's not approving, it's the request to send it to the um, council recommendation to find funding for the uh approved, previously approved uh signage program that's in place.

So, so there's uh so I think at this time, unless we have any other debate or questions of staff or comments, um we should make uh uh decision if the uh where we stand and if we send this to council.

So I could make a motion.

I would well I would make a motion that the Cultural Heritage Commission forward a recommendation to the city council to adopt a resolution approving a certificate of appropriateness to allow the the um alterations.

Let's see, where are we at here?

We're to adopt a resolution recommending to the city council discuss determining a funding source and allocate funding to it and reinstate the project.

So it'd be a recommendation from the Cultural Heritage Commission.

So there's a motion.

Do we have a second?

Second, and all in favor of this recommendation.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

No, nay.

And so be it.

Three eyes, one nay.

Um, okay.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you, staff.

Thank you, everyone.

Thank you, public comment.

And uh I appreciate your time on this and uh I think it's an exciting prospect that will still require a great deal of heart and work.

So thank you for your time, everybody.

Um so now we're moving on to item nine, which is the comments by commissioners and staff.

Um so are there any commissioner comments?

I have none.

Anyone any more comments?

None.

Just general.

Yes.

Very good, please.

Commissioner Weston.

There are um a significant amount of houses in NAPA that are vacant and deteriorating.

And it is very difficult for code compliance to do anything about them, they're often owned by people that have had them for decades, and they don't have the funds to do anything.

And code compliance is really limited in actually what they can do.

They they can't make them fix things.

They could make them, you know, clear the vegetation and that kind of thing, or any kind of safety thing.

So this is just kind of a wild proposal, is what about having a vacancy tax on uh historical resource inventory?

So that a a lot of cities like Oakland and Berkeley have vacancy taxes that are for all homes.

But I'm I'm thinking, well, could you focus that on the homes that are on the HRI, so that we could help save these homes before they um uh are beyond repair and have to be torn down.

There's one on First Street.

There is one on Oak.

There's probably about a dozen in Napa, and you you can't make these people do, you can't make them sell it, you can't make them fix it, you can't make them.

So what if we um imposed a tax?

Um because their home is vacant, it's not giving housing, um, and it's uh a blight for the neighborhood, and it's just an idea.

Uh I could comment on that if it's appropriate.

Sure, go ahead.

It's comments, so go ahead.

Yeah.

Um I worked for the city of Vallejo for 15 years, and if you know anything about Vallejo, there's a lot of vacant and derelict buildings.

A tax would require uh uh a vote probably to by the by the citizens.

What we did in Vallejo is they had a fine system that was fairly hefty, and that did get some people to move, but that also would have to be approved by council, but it was effective and uh of course the economy is approved, and a lot of these houses got bought and restored, so things are not as bad as they were.

But it was a big problem in the around the time of two thousand eight, two thousand nine when you know the things were selling for very low prices, and there were a lot of people that abandoned houses because they might have been underwater.

But no, a tax I I think that would require a vote of the citizens of the and that's something that would probably be very difficult to get on the ballot.

But the city could consider a hefier fine system, and that's something that's that could be a discussion they have with staff.

I'm just opening it up to some kind of action that could be taken, something creative that can go around the current system as far as not having, you know, cold compliance can't do anything.

You can't you can't really make people do anything.

So less demolition by neglect.

Anyway, staff is there.

I'll add one thing that it would also be very difficult to apply that only to historic homes.

Yeah.

In the case of V Vallejo, it was just dilapidated homes.

Everything, right?

Can't single out a home just uh only applied to historic and not right.

It was houses all over the and also we uh had a vacancy for the commercial buildings where home where uh business owners who had storefronts that were you know broken windows, all this kind of thing, they were requiring them to do something to the storefronts to beautify it or rent the building.

Otherwise they would get a severe fine.

So I I don't know how the program I've been retired since 2017, so I don't know what's going on there now, but it was kind of effective with the single family houses and apartment houses.

I don't think the city had an appetite for funds for commercial buildings because I can think of a time when there were a couple of people who own many buildings, and it was the same situation, they weren't being rented or anything else, and the city could have moved with that, I believe, but chose you know not to go that route.

So I don't know if they'd have a similar reaction to this or not.

Okay, but I think it's a really good idea.

And where does it go with the thought there?

I mean, it uh is there it's a thought.

Okay, yeah.

I'm gonna keep this brief because these are comments.

This is not a new item we picked up, but that would be council, that'll be a council discretion direction.

Exactly.

That would require uh as you mentioned, our our co our our code enforcement department is already overtaxed with so many things.

Uh I don't think the city wants to be in the business of being a lawsuits constantly.

Right.

That's really what it takes.

When it happened with Vallejo, it's because they had a very extreme blight situation.

And and a big code enforcement staff.

Yeah, but it's because of the flight that the city had.

I think anyone would agree NAPA is nowhere near in that position.

I understand your your concern.

There are homes that look really run down, but it's really hard to regulate how people maintain things.

It really comes down to health and safety, is when the city can do something.

Just because something is not well maintained is not generally a reason the city can go and force them to spend money, especially if they can't they don't have the money, and the city's not gonna want to be in the business of putting liens on properties to a great extent.

We do that very very sparsely and usually again, health and safety is the reason that it happens.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Wesson.

Thank you, staff for our update on or info and thoughts on that.

Um anything else?

I I have yes, go right ahead, please.

Thank you.

Window replacements on historic homes.

I know Paul's gonna give a little um presentation about a form that um he's created, it's in draft form, to ensure that when applicants apply to for replacement windows, that um they really do follow through, and there's commitment and understanding on both parts of what this replacement window will look like and its function.

And I really um there's a couple of items that I want to make sure that are on your list, and that is tinted windows.

So if a window has low E coating, they will look tinted if they have um gas, argon gas, they could also look tinted, um, and of course, obviously tinted glass itself.

So some people's understanding of what tinted glass is is they may think, oh, the glass is colored, but really it could be um the coating or actually just the gas in between the layers, um that can cause it to have a gray, a green or a black kind of a tint, which is absolutely inappropriate and it does not follow the secretary of interior standards.

Um the other item is not to have any plastic or vinyl on the windows.

Um that includes the track and I've seen uh applied uh OG lugs that are plastic, and also that they have proper placement within the framing because sometimes they'll be brought more forward, and that does not look h historical.

They need to be in the same kind of plane and position that they were before.

So those are just a couple of my comments, and I'd love to see what your draft is and how we can all work together to clarify this.

Yeah, so I don't have a presentation prepared, um, but we are working on a draft of uh a historic clearance application when staff approves window replacements on historic homes, it requires a historic clearance.

Um, as described in the code, um this form really would just memorialize our current process.

Um, something we can save in our records and reference at a future date.

Um it would include the same things we require already, um a window schedule, um window specifications and a really basic site plan, floor plan showing where the windows are located on a home to approve a historic clearance for window replacements.

We already have to make sure the windows would be in kind, so that includes all these things, exact same mirror material dimensions, operation, um, and style the same month and pattern or any other style.

Um, very good.

Yeah, beyond that it's it's pretty simple.

Do you think at the next meeting we could see uh draft or um I I can't guarantee it would be at the next meeting, but when it's publicly available.

Um, we can bring back to you when we have an opportunity of what what the city w determines is necessary, appropriate and and actually enforceable too.

So we we can bring back what we have, but we we do have we do have to to consider the reality of installation construction.

Uh the city staff can't hold someone's hand and make sure that things are placed a certain distance in or out.

They're meeting building code, they're meeting building code.

Uh but we certainly will can come back with some with with what plans we're gonna have for discussion at a later date.

So the idea behind it is that it gives a quick clarity on the recommendations.

Is that correct?

Yes, on what was approved.

Perfect.

I think that will help many.

Commissioner Wesson, did you have some other thoughts?

Very good.

Um anyone else?

Nope.

I just have some very quick ones.

So I've already said maybe you can give us recommendation at some point after everything goes through as far as Fuller Park.

But you know, going down the line, can staff tell us how to, I don't know, talk about local districts.

That's all was just a question.

Um and that could be down the line, but I just want it put out there on record that I think that's something we're gonna need to think about.

Uh the other thing that I wanted to mention is Commissioner Towica went to uh the California preservation conference down in Riverside and uh previously, and I found out that planning commission does it, uh the city pays for one member to go to co uh to commit um conventions and these meetings, which is important for our certified local government.

So I think we haven't done that for a long time, uh, and Commissioner Tuwica's been going.

So going forward, I'd like to make sure that that is possible.

And do you have a comment on that?

Because I know planning does it.

We have funding for uh for uh education, so we'll look into that and we'll follow up.

Pardon me.

Yeah, save your receipts.

But yes, we're gonna be there certainly will be availability for that.

We'll we'll both get together and come back with something about it.

Just a question, because next year I want to go too, so it we'll figure that out.

It's in San Jose next year.

A little closer.

Uh yeah, so thank you.

Excellent.

Appreciate it.

Um then, you know, at some point this is on the tail of that, since we're certified local government.

Are there ways that we could without creating a lot of staff time and money to work on um educational opportunities, maybe we could present your, you know, or something.

I don't know, because education is part of our mission as a commission.

So uh, you know, very small, but is there a way we used to do a lot more?

Used to have workshops, we had a window workshop with uh Juliana Inman and contractors, we had two days.

It was pretty amazing with people talking about historic preservation solar applications on you know uh uh historic homes, but different times, but still the I mostly just bringing up we need to keep um our education as part of our our agreement uh as a commission and how we uh present that annual report.

So that was another thing maybe you guys can brainstorm.

If anybody else has ideas, that would be great.

Um then I don't know where it was with uh Michael Walker before he retired, but we'd asked for a few times uh update on the Thomas Earle house.

And we still don't know where that is, and I don't know if staff does you don't have to get into it now, but maybe you could come next meeting.

Well, I can tell you right now what what we know is that they're marketing it for sale.

But then more recently we've heard Mark Paratis said that he actually does want to do it now, but you know, we we can't control a person what they do.

No, of course not.

It's been approved and it's been allowed to be dismantled.

It's very hard for us to go back and enforce something.

I have one question.

So if it's sold to somebody, are they required to put the historic loan back?

The entitlements say so.

Thank you for the house.

That's all I the house, the whole project, that was a project.

The entitlements say that.

So thank you.

That's all I need to know, but that could just sit there, but you can't control that.

And uh and I know this is crazy, and I don't even know if and we want to get out of here in five minutes.

I don't know if anyone here in this room or the commission sitting up here or staff even know about where those historic stones are located in some off site warehouse for the historic bridge over the river, over the creek.

The first street uh bridge over the creek.

There were historic stones that were stored off site in some warehouse, numbered, labeled, and the idea was always to bring them back into one of these public work projects, into a park, into like any new development, perhaps now at our new great uh community center at Harvest.

So I'm wondering if you know, with all your spare time, you might be able to see where those are, find where those are, ask somebody, and I don't even know if it's ever a possibility, but if it's not, maybe we sell, maybe the city sells the stones or something, but they're historic, and it was part of the river uh you know uh rejuvenation and downtown, and it was really important.

It was important enough to the commission at this time and to staff and to council that they were saved and documented, even with the you know, center stone.

So, just wondering if they could be found and and thought about again.

I could check with public works, I believe they're the ones that had things stored so I can find out from public works.

I figure you could know much faster, yeah.

And that's it.

So thank you so much, and um thank you all for being here tonight and your excellent comments.

Thank you, staff as always.

Appreciate it, and thank you, public.

We always appreciate your time.

So go on and find great preservation out there.

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much.